Fairfax County General :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Boundary Changes (from his web site http://www.coachlitz.com/issues.shtml#safety)
Boundary changes are one of the most contentious and polarizing processes a school system has to go through. My position is that the parents who have their children in the school system, plus pay the taxes that help fund the school system, must have the largest say in how the boundaries are realigned. The whole process, from the compiling of statistics, to determining costs and to finally presenting a proposal MUST be totally transparent. This not only is the fairest way to approach this problem, but the only way.
When the current school board voted to delay any discussion or release of data until after the Fall 2007 election, it flunked the transparency test. This created distrust, anxiety and overall concern that the boundary process was rigged in advance. When I asked Mr. Jack Dale, School Superintendent, about the delay at a Strategic Governance forum, several incumbents jumped all over me for asking the question. They then cut me off before Mr. Dale had an opportunity to answer. Consequently, I feel the boundary process as it stands today appears to be unfair.
As a point of reference, when my second daughter was in school, she went to a different school every year for five years in a row between fourth and eight grades. It was during this period that I organized the parents, came up with our own plan, and went to the school board and then the county board of supervisors to present a more reasonable plan. The parents’ plan was the one ultimately adopted. I think this type of tried and proven technique is the best approach to a boundary issue.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
high school redistricting
Posted by:
copygirl
()
Date: July 24, 2007 02:25PM
FCPS just launched a boundary study which affects SIX high schools in western Fairfax County - Chantilly, Oakton, Herndon, Westfield, South Lakes and Madison.
There's no new high school being built. FCPS claims they’re doing this to even out enrollment numbers among the schools. BUT they're not using reliable enrollment statistics to justify such wide-sweeping redistricting! It's as if they simply have a desire to play with the numbers again. Don't they realize there are children's lives behind these numbers! Children who have ties to the high schools their neighbors have attended for years. Can you imagine the disruption this is going to cause to thousands of families and students!
There is a website: www.stoprd.org with more information. The website launched an online petition to try and stop this latest FCPS boundary study from proceeding. Check it out and consider signing. If there are enough signatures, maybe they can successfully “fight city hall” on this one!
There's no new high school being built. FCPS claims they’re doing this to even out enrollment numbers among the schools. BUT they're not using reliable enrollment statistics to justify such wide-sweeping redistricting! It's as if they simply have a desire to play with the numbers again. Don't they realize there are children's lives behind these numbers! Children who have ties to the high schools their neighbors have attended for years. Can you imagine the disruption this is going to cause to thousands of families and students!
There is a website: www.stoprd.org with more information. The website launched an online petition to try and stop this latest FCPS boundary study from proceeding. Check it out and consider signing. If there are enough signatures, maybe they can successfully “fight city hall” on this one!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
bdimag
()
Date: July 24, 2007 02:28PM
i should start an online petition to ban online petitions...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lester Burnham
()
Date: July 24, 2007 02:43PM
FCPS needs to redistrict the entire county, but that simply is not practical and dividing it into three or pieces is the only reasonable approach. FCPS does not need a new school coming online to justify redistricting, but the pattern of housing development has created imbalances across the system.
I do not have the figures in front of me, but I seem to recall that the number of HS seats was roughly in line with the number of current and projected HS students, but that some schools had a good amount of space while others were at or near the breaking point. I don't think that the school board or administration takes a casual approach to a topic which is clearly going to drive emotional arguments, but something needs to be done to better use existing resources.
We saw this recently with South County and the hand-wringing between Lake Braddock, Hayfield and South County with people making the same arguments about friendships and sports teams. People need to realize that high school is only four years and this will mostly likely impact people for less time than that. Life is short...don't sweat the small stuff.
I do not have the figures in front of me, but I seem to recall that the number of HS seats was roughly in line with the number of current and projected HS students, but that some schools had a good amount of space while others were at or near the breaking point. I don't think that the school board or administration takes a casual approach to a topic which is clearly going to drive emotional arguments, but something needs to be done to better use existing resources.
We saw this recently with South County and the hand-wringing between Lake Braddock, Hayfield and South County with people making the same arguments about friendships and sports teams. People need to realize that high school is only four years and this will mostly likely impact people for less time than that. Life is short...don't sweat the small stuff.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Radiophile
()
Date: July 24, 2007 02:54PM
And I am sure that some will look at the study just to see if there any pictures of teenagers included. Not the fat ones, please.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: July 26, 2007 12:06AM
copygirl.
you don't know what you're saying.
schools like westfield and chantilly are grossly overpopulated.
while schools like madison and south lakes have plenty of room to spare.
and stop trying to speak on behalf of the "children"
when you're obviously not.
if you're trying to start up a ruckus just because of the Oakton section.
then just say that and we'll start from there.
you don't know what you're saying.
schools like westfield and chantilly are grossly overpopulated.
while schools like madison and south lakes have plenty of room to spare.
and stop trying to speak on behalf of the "children"
when you're obviously not.
if you're trying to start up a ruckus just because of the Oakton section.
then just say that and we'll start from there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
sal
()
Date: July 27, 2007 02:26PM
Zen
Ok so you live close enough to Chantilly or Westfield that you won't be effected. And you want to get rid of some of your neighbors because it's a little crowded for your kid.
Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants to be sent to South Lakes.
Ok so you live close enough to Chantilly or Westfield that you won't be effected. And you want to get rid of some of your neighbors because it's a little crowded for your kid.
Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants to be sent to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lester Burnham
()
Date: July 27, 2007 03:47PM
sal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zen
>
> Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants
> to be sent to South Lakes.
Just like the people who bought houses in Crosspointe did not want their children to go to...gasp...Hayfield. When the boundary discussion for South County started they brought up things like terrorism and traffic on I-95 as reasons why SCSS should be THEIR school.
In other parts of the country where each town has its own school system it is OK for their to be rich schools and poor schools, but I think that FCPS has an obligation to maintain a reasonable range (not necessarily balance) of ESOL and free and reduced lunch students. It would be easy for SCSS to be 90% white with an average household income of $150K, but I don't think that that is appropriate.
If FXCO had some sort of master plan for growth and development 20 years ago the redistricting mess would not be what it is today and now the FCPS school board needs to deal with it. Enrollment projections may be flawed, but I think that these changes, which will eventually filter across the school system are a good thing. I feel badly for kids being taken from their friends and sports teammates being separated, but that is one of the risks of living in a system like Fairfax.
Do you want stability and the knowledge that your kids will be in the same high school pyramid? Move someplace like New Jersey, Pennsylvania or Massachusetts. Otherwise, accept the inevitable and move on.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zen
>
> Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants
> to be sent to South Lakes.
Just like the people who bought houses in Crosspointe did not want their children to go to...gasp...Hayfield. When the boundary discussion for South County started they brought up things like terrorism and traffic on I-95 as reasons why SCSS should be THEIR school.
In other parts of the country where each town has its own school system it is OK for their to be rich schools and poor schools, but I think that FCPS has an obligation to maintain a reasonable range (not necessarily balance) of ESOL and free and reduced lunch students. It would be easy for SCSS to be 90% white with an average household income of $150K, but I don't think that that is appropriate.
If FXCO had some sort of master plan for growth and development 20 years ago the redistricting mess would not be what it is today and now the FCPS school board needs to deal with it. Enrollment projections may be flawed, but I think that these changes, which will eventually filter across the school system are a good thing. I feel badly for kids being taken from their friends and sports teammates being separated, but that is one of the risks of living in a system like Fairfax.
Do you want stability and the knowledge that your kids will be in the same high school pyramid? Move someplace like New Jersey, Pennsylvania or Massachusetts. Otherwise, accept the inevitable and move on.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: July 27, 2007 10:44PM
sal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zen
>
> Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants
> to be sent to South Lakes.
Now that wasn't to hard to admit.
now let me say something
I'm a South Lakes graduate.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zen
>
> Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants
> to be sent to South Lakes.
Now that wasn't to hard to admit.
now let me say something
I'm a South Lakes graduate.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: July 27, 2007 11:04PM
sal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zen
>
> Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants
> to be sent to South Lakes.
There that wasn't too hard to admit was it?
now let me say something
I'm a South Lakes graduate.
I had a decision between Oakton, Madison, Westfield AND Langley.
But I chose to attend South Lakes for all four years.
And I have no regrets.
now tell my why one wouldn't want to send their kids to south lakes
honestly.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zen
>
> Let me say what the real issue is.... no one wants
> to be sent to South Lakes.
There that wasn't too hard to admit was it?
now let me say something
I'm a South Lakes graduate.
I had a decision between Oakton, Madison, Westfield AND Langley.
But I chose to attend South Lakes for all four years.
And I have no regrets.
now tell my why one wouldn't want to send their kids to south lakes
honestly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TheMeeper
()
Date: July 27, 2007 11:31PM
now tell my why one wouldn't want to send their kids to south lakes
honestly.
I know a very successful doctor that graduated from South Lakes, she's one of the coolest/smartest people I've ever met.
Stop being such a clueless suburbanite, Sal.
honestly.
I know a very successful doctor that graduated from South Lakes, she's one of the coolest/smartest people I've ever met.
Stop being such a clueless suburbanite, Sal.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jen
()
Date: July 27, 2007 11:33PM
South Lakes has a bad reputation. I wouldn't want to go there because of my attachment to Oakton. And when did you graduate... I think the SL has gone downhill over the years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jen
()
Date: July 27, 2007 11:36PM
I live a good 20-30 min from my school but I would rather go there because it has some better programs in the areas that I am interested in. Oakton has a band program that is much stronger than South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jen
()
Date: July 28, 2007 03:06PM
This one time at band camp.....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: July 28, 2007 03:53PM
As long as there are State Standards and No Child Left Behind, there is going to be pressure on school districts to do this kind of B.S. The idea is to spread the shitty students around as much as possible so all schools eek past the Standards versus letting a handful of schools fly past the exams while others teeter on the brink of losing Federal funding.
The best way to deal with this is to tell you member of Congress not to renew No Child Left Behind. The sooner that debacle is put to bed, the better.
The best way to deal with this is to tell you member of Congress not to renew No Child Left Behind. The sooner that debacle is put to bed, the better.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: July 28, 2007 07:14PM
copygirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't they realize there are children's
> lives behind these numbers! Children who have ties
> to the high schools their neighbors have attended
> for years. Can you imagine the disruption this is
> going to cause to thousands of families and
> students!
to the person who originally wrote the content of the first post and people who feel the same,
holy crap, could you be more of a whiner? ive heard a lot of stupid things people whine about but this is up their on the retarded level. this isnt even as bad as someone moving yet you act like it's a cataclysmic event that will surely wipe out all life in these schools. if you are truly so distraught over this turn of events, please drill into your right temple to alleviate your pain. stop inventing drama where there is none.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't they realize there are children's
> lives behind these numbers! Children who have ties
> to the high schools their neighbors have attended
> for years. Can you imagine the disruption this is
> going to cause to thousands of families and
> students!
to the person who originally wrote the content of the first post and people who feel the same,
holy crap, could you be more of a whiner? ive heard a lot of stupid things people whine about but this is up their on the retarded level. this isnt even as bad as someone moving yet you act like it's a cataclysmic event that will surely wipe out all life in these schools. if you are truly so distraught over this turn of events, please drill into your right temple to alleviate your pain. stop inventing drama where there is none.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: August 04, 2007 01:43AM
"Oakton has a band program that is much stronger than South Lakes."
are you serious, Jen? apparently no one ever mentioned to you that South Lakes' band is ranked #1 in the state and was among the top 17 programs in the nation sent to Bands of America in Indanapolis.
as far as sliding down, yeah, it did happen in the nineties. but south lakes' principal bruce butler is very good and is turning the school around. people make it seem violent, which it isn't. we had 3 fights this year. not a whole hell of a lot, but more than desirable. compared to other schools, the use of hard drugs is low. i can't back this up with stats but lets say that no one gets offered coke at south lakes parties. (coughlangleycough)
http://mcleantimes.com/site/tab5.cfm?newsid=17847674&BRD=2553&PAG=461&dept_id=565197&rfi=6
that is a link to an article i wrote, published in the times.
are you serious, Jen? apparently no one ever mentioned to you that South Lakes' band is ranked #1 in the state and was among the top 17 programs in the nation sent to Bands of America in Indanapolis.
as far as sliding down, yeah, it did happen in the nineties. but south lakes' principal bruce butler is very good and is turning the school around. people make it seem violent, which it isn't. we had 3 fights this year. not a whole hell of a lot, but more than desirable. compared to other schools, the use of hard drugs is low. i can't back this up with stats but lets say that no one gets offered coke at south lakes parties. (coughlangleycough)
http://mcleantimes.com/site/tab5.cfm?newsid=17847674&BRD=2553&PAG=461&dept_id=565197&rfi=6
that is a link to an article i wrote, published in the times.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: August 04, 2007 09:30AM
i call BS on all of that. except the band, maybe.
3 fights this year? the info hasnt been published yet, but last year there were 16. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:4318938336807955::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
I be there were more than that, they either werent found out about or were kept on the DL b/c of parental pressure or whatever.
for comparison, heres oakton. theey had 6 fights. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:1443738103406171::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:050
"lets say no one gets offered coke at SL parties" There are drugs at a lot of HS parties. If not alcohol then drugs. If you think there arent then you are also probably one of those people who thinks that their straight-A kid never speeds, gets high, or parties it up.
if you wrote the article then its not necciscarily all that reliable. An article from an independant person would be better.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2007 09:31AM by KeepOnTruckin.
3 fights this year? the info hasnt been published yet, but last year there were 16. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:4318938336807955::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
I be there were more than that, they either werent found out about or were kept on the DL b/c of parental pressure or whatever.
for comparison, heres oakton. theey had 6 fights. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:2:1443738103406171::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:050
"lets say no one gets offered coke at SL parties" There are drugs at a lot of HS parties. If not alcohol then drugs. If you think there arent then you are also probably one of those people who thinks that their straight-A kid never speeds, gets high, or parties it up.
if you wrote the article then its not necciscarily all that reliable. An article from an independant person would be better.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2007 09:31AM by KeepOnTruckin.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TRICKIE
()
Date: August 04, 2007 10:21AM
Those school profile reports are not reliable at all. I taught at a large FCPS secondary school. Believe me, those reports were doctored. The incidents are widely under reported. We used to laugh when they came out. Many of the thefts, drug incidents, fights are unreported on purpose. Our security staff was always complaining about this. The principals do not want to have the incidents reported since the school will look bad.
Trickie
Trickie
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 04, 2007 11:18AM
I guess if I was paying an Oakton mortgage and Oakton property taxes only to have my kid going to Chantilly or Herndon, I'd be pretty pissed too. Of course, redistricting should do wonders for Oakton's property values.
Glad I'm not an Oaktonian (or whatever they're called).
Glad I'm not an Oaktonian (or whatever they're called).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lower my taxes
()
Date: August 04, 2007 09:02PM
If the school board is going to review the school districts, it should also consider the McLean and Langley school districts. Besides the McLean area, these schools' boundaries include Herndon, Reston, Vienna, and Fall Church. As a result, these schools and their pyramids are overcrowded with students that should be going to high schools much closer.
For example, homes near Route 7 and Dranesville Rd are part of Langley,which is about 11 miles away. Herndon HS is only a couple of miles away.
What is the school board rational for keeping these boundaries? No. It can't be for higher property values.
For example, homes near Route 7 and Dranesville Rd are part of Langley,which is about 11 miles away. Herndon HS is only a couple of miles away.
What is the school board rational for keeping these boundaries? No. It can't be for higher property values.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: August 04, 2007 09:17PM
Lower my taxes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the school board is going to review the school
> districts, it should also consider the McLean and
> Langley school districts. Besides the McLean
> area, these schools' boundaries include Herndon,
> Reston, Vienna, and Fall Church. As a result,
> these schools and their pyramids are overcrowded
> with students that should be going to high schools
> much closer.
>
> For example, homes near Route 7 and Dranesville Rd
> are part of Langley,which is about 11 miles away.
> Herndon HS is only a couple of miles away.
>
> What is the school board rational for keeping
> these boundaries? No. It can't be for higher
> property values.
Hey moron, can't you read? WashingTonLocian already explained EXACTLY why what your asking occurs.
So you don't have to scroll up, let me quote WashingToneLocian:
"As long as there are State Standards and No Child Left Behind, there is going to be pressure on school districts to do this kind of B.S. The idea is to spread the shitty students around as much as possible so all schools eek past the Standards versus letting a handful of schools fly past the exams while others teeter on the brink of losing Federal funding.
The best way to deal with this is to tell you member of Congress not to renew No Child Left Behind. The sooner that debacle is put to bed, the better."
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the school board is going to review the school
> districts, it should also consider the McLean and
> Langley school districts. Besides the McLean
> area, these schools' boundaries include Herndon,
> Reston, Vienna, and Fall Church. As a result,
> these schools and their pyramids are overcrowded
> with students that should be going to high schools
> much closer.
>
> For example, homes near Route 7 and Dranesville Rd
> are part of Langley,which is about 11 miles away.
> Herndon HS is only a couple of miles away.
>
> What is the school board rational for keeping
> these boundaries? No. It can't be for higher
> property values.
Hey moron, can't you read? WashingTonLocian already explained EXACTLY why what your asking occurs.
So you don't have to scroll up, let me quote WashingToneLocian:
"As long as there are State Standards and No Child Left Behind, there is going to be pressure on school districts to do this kind of B.S. The idea is to spread the shitty students around as much as possible so all schools eek past the Standards versus letting a handful of schools fly past the exams while others teeter on the brink of losing Federal funding.
The best way to deal with this is to tell you member of Congress not to renew No Child Left Behind. The sooner that debacle is put to bed, the better."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: August 04, 2007 09:23PM
On second thought...the Langley and McLean kids should be going to Herndon! That's the shithole that needs it's scores bolstered.
I guess it's political pressure then.
Sorry I called you a moron!
I guess it's political pressure then.
Sorry I called you a moron!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: August 04, 2007 10:30PM
KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you wrote the article then its not necciscarily
> all that reliable. An article from an independant
> person would be better.
Ladies and gents of the jury.
the proper spelling of
-drum roll-
necessarily
&
independent.
sorry it was bugging me.
Okay. So you're asking for independent study/judgment on the schools.
fair enough
Exhibit A
The Seahawk Battalion [Honor Unit].
Yes ladies and gents. Honor unit. Meaning that a team of active duty and retired Army personnel came to South Lakes to inspect the JROTC unit and it's sponsor school all things were taken into account.
everything from demographics to incident reports.
And after intense scrutiny it was in the Army's opinion that the Battalion be awarded Honor Unit Status. Meaning the unit is of the best 15% in the world.
now. lets compare.
Oakton? anything to offer? no? nothing? pity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you wrote the article then its not necciscarily
> all that reliable. An article from an independant
> person would be better.
Ladies and gents of the jury.
the proper spelling of
-drum roll-
necessarily
&
independent.
sorry it was bugging me.
Okay. So you're asking for independent study/judgment on the schools.
fair enough
Exhibit A
The Seahawk Battalion [Honor Unit].
Yes ladies and gents. Honor unit. Meaning that a team of active duty and retired Army personnel came to South Lakes to inspect the JROTC unit and it's sponsor school all things were taken into account.
everything from demographics to incident reports.
And after intense scrutiny it was in the Army's opinion that the Battalion be awarded Honor Unit Status. Meaning the unit is of the best 15% in the world.
now. lets compare.
Oakton? anything to offer? no? nothing? pity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: August 04, 2007 10:37PM
im sorry i cant spell the one that starts with N. independent, my bad, we all make typos. i dont care.
but seeing as how the incident reports are bullshit, they mean nothing.
yeah some people from the state government or somthing came to Centreville HS a while back also. They raved about how it was soo good, etc. but its just government BS. all schools have problems and good points. Just usully more of the former.
but seeing as how the incident reports are bullshit, they mean nothing.
yeah some people from the state government or somthing came to Centreville HS a while back also. They raved about how it was soo good, etc. but its just government BS. all schools have problems and good points. Just usully more of the former.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: August 04, 2007 10:45PM
and if anyone is wondering why people are so adamantly defending and eagerly attacking South Lakes right now
is because no one would dare say one real bad thing about South Lakes in the public eye.
just get one Oakton parent and one Oakton student
and get them to drop all their ridiculous statistics and inaccurate reports and admit why they don't want to come to South Lakes in the next little community meeting they want to call.
Then I'll sit silent.
If anyone wants to call bs in this argument
it is on the other side of the line.
is because no one would dare say one real bad thing about South Lakes in the public eye.
just get one Oakton parent and one Oakton student
and get them to drop all their ridiculous statistics and inaccurate reports and admit why they don't want to come to South Lakes in the next little community meeting they want to call.
Then I'll sit silent.
If anyone wants to call bs in this argument
it is on the other side of the line.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
moron
()
Date: August 05, 2007 03:49PM
The bogus school districts have been around way before the no child left behind laws and state standards. The moron think it's more of parents chasing SAT scores. So, little Johnny can go to Harvard.
If the school board is stretching the school boundaries, why don't they send students from 7 corners or south Herndon areas to Langley and Mclean. Those areas just as close than Vienna and Herndon. That should dilute their SAT scores.
Duh. Thank you for calling me moron. That's the best thing you ever called me. I'm now using it as my screen name. Stop by Vienna Inn (Freddy's for you old timers) and I'll buy you a beer. Just ask for the moron.
If the school board is stretching the school boundaries, why don't they send students from 7 corners or south Herndon areas to Langley and Mclean. Those areas just as close than Vienna and Herndon. That should dilute their SAT scores.
Duh. Thank you for calling me moron. That's the best thing you ever called me. I'm now using it as my screen name. Stop by Vienna Inn (Freddy's for you old timers) and I'll buy you a beer. Just ask for the moron.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TheMeeper
()
Date: August 05, 2007 04:28PM
Stop by Vienna Inn and I'll buy you a beer. Just ask for the moron.
Someone should really do that, those waitresses don't take too kindly to foolishness, I bet their reaction would be funny.
Someone should really do that, those waitresses don't take too kindly to foolishness, I bet their reaction would be funny.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
caddy shack
()
Date: August 05, 2007 04:38PM
As Judge Smails said "Well the world needs ditch diggers too."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 05, 2007 05:03PM
For those cynics who don't think I know what I am talking about...
South Lakes - 46% White
http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/va/other/569#toc
Oakton - 69% White
http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/va/other/555#toc
...The goal is to push underachieving minority students into schools that are whiter and do better on tests. Langley hasn't been touched...yet...because of the number of wealthy lawyers who send their kids there. That's not the case with Oakton. But, if push comes to shove, expect Langley to come under fire as well eventually.
South Lakes - 46% White
http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/va/other/569#toc
Oakton - 69% White
http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/va/other/555#toc
...The goal is to push underachieving minority students into schools that are whiter and do better on tests. Langley hasn't been touched...yet...because of the number of wealthy lawyers who send their kids there. That's not the case with Oakton. But, if push comes to shove, expect Langley to come under fire as well eventually.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: August 05, 2007 08:37PM
Just FYI- greatschools.net gets their info from the fcps school profiles. So you shouldn't believe it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: August 06, 2007 01:59AM
perhaps instead of penalizing the schools for poor performance, we could penalize the kids. i think weekly public executions of the 50 worst students with below average grades would help motivate everyone. everyone with a 90% or higher average grades would be granted immunity. additionally, all dropouts and runaways will be executed on sight. i havent settled on a form of execution, beheading and hanging are both great so i say a hybrid would be best... have a blade decapitate them as they are hanging.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax MF---er
()
Date: August 06, 2007 01:35PM
The opponents of this redistricting should call it what it is...Backdoor Busing (ala Backdoor Draft).
This isn't any different than the forced busing of the 1970s. If the opponents started using the term "Busing," you would scare the shit out of the politicians.
This isn't any different than the forced busing of the 1970s. If the opponents started using the term "Busing," you would scare the shit out of the politicians.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: August 11, 2007 06:56PM
What it really comes down to is some of the white people in places, shall we say, less "economically diverse", like Oakton not wanting their kids in with minorities.
After all, its dangerous being in schools with kids who aren't white or Asian, isn't it?
It's not stimulating the brain if Jack is in a classroom with some kids who aren't affluent, right?
Postscript: South Lakes sent about twenty kids to UVA and about 15 to W&M (I swear to God if you go and pull up the actual numbers, I don't care, I said approximate). One kid is paying PEANUTS (We're talking $5,000 per year) to go to Princeton because of various scholarships won.
Post-postscript: Read in the Post today that former Oakton/current UVA running back Keith Payne was suspended by coach Al Groh for academic reasons. Hell of a player, but looks like walking through the halls on gameday shouting PAYNE-TRAINNN didn't prep him for college courses.
After all, its dangerous being in schools with kids who aren't white or Asian, isn't it?
It's not stimulating the brain if Jack is in a classroom with some kids who aren't affluent, right?
Postscript: South Lakes sent about twenty kids to UVA and about 15 to W&M (I swear to God if you go and pull up the actual numbers, I don't care, I said approximate). One kid is paying PEANUTS (We're talking $5,000 per year) to go to Princeton because of various scholarships won.
Post-postscript: Read in the Post today that former Oakton/current UVA running back Keith Payne was suspended by coach Al Groh for academic reasons. Hell of a player, but looks like walking through the halls on gameday shouting PAYNE-TRAINNN didn't prep him for college courses.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: August 11, 2007 11:34PM
brian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What it really comes down to is some of the white
> people in places, shall we say, less "economically
> diverse", like Oakton not wanting their kids in
> with minorities.
>
> After all, its dangerous being in schools with
> kids who aren't white or Asian, isn't it?
why do people always try to make this issue about race/origin/nationality? it seems like a cop-out argument to me. how about this, you pay US taxes and i dont because about 150 years ago some of my ancestors came from germany. you dont like that? then you are a biggot and should be burned alive. oh wait, that's preposterous.
> It's not stimulating the brain if Jack is in a
> classroom with some kids who aren't affluent,
> right?
that's such a bullshit and baseless argument.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
-------------------------------------------------------
> What it really comes down to is some of the white
> people in places, shall we say, less "economically
> diverse", like Oakton not wanting their kids in
> with minorities.
>
> After all, its dangerous being in schools with
> kids who aren't white or Asian, isn't it?
why do people always try to make this issue about race/origin/nationality? it seems like a cop-out argument to me. how about this, you pay US taxes and i dont because about 150 years ago some of my ancestors came from germany. you dont like that? then you are a biggot and should be burned alive. oh wait, that's preposterous.
> It's not stimulating the brain if Jack is in a
> classroom with some kids who aren't affluent,
> right?
that's such a bullshit and baseless argument.
Quote
Eric Cartman
'cause ya' po' kenny, ya' po'!
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: August 11, 2007 11:54PM
gravis.
even for your standards.
that first point didn't make any sense.
even for your standards.
that first point didn't make any sense.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Brian
()
Date: August 13, 2007 03:50AM
apparently you don't understand sarcasm.
just to throw this one out there... the questionable figures the county puts out may indicate south lakes is more dangerous than oakton, but how can you even argue oakton is not more dangerous? when a school feels the need to pass around free rape whistles to girls, i think there is a problem that people not in the loop would otherwise not know.
and gravis, i really don't have any idea what you're talking about. not in a defiant "you don't know what you're saying" way, but seriously... what the hell are you talking about? burned at the stake wtf?
just to throw this one out there... the questionable figures the county puts out may indicate south lakes is more dangerous than oakton, but how can you even argue oakton is not more dangerous? when a school feels the need to pass around free rape whistles to girls, i think there is a problem that people not in the loop would otherwise not know.
and gravis, i really don't have any idea what you're talking about. not in a defiant "you don't know what you're saying" way, but seriously... what the hell are you talking about? burned at the stake wtf?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Nel
()
Date: August 14, 2007 09:52AM
South Lakes should stay as it is. The school's academic scores are near the bottom of all Fairfax County schools. The students would not benefit from increased classroom size. Increasing enrollment would only hurt the underperformers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TonyP
()
Date: August 16, 2007 02:37PM
The assertion that South Lakes is at the bottom academically is blatantly false. Look it up! All the other assertions regarding South Lakes (always made by people who don't go there) or equally false. The anti-South Lakes feeling exhibited here and in the local newspapers is openly racist and perpetrated by people who don't know what they're talking about.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lurker.
()
Date: August 16, 2007 02:52PM
Well South Lakes is getting a completely remodeled school so maybe people are just jealous.
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Travis
()
Date: August 16, 2007 03:40PM
I pretty much drive past South Lakes on my way to school (Oakton). I'd much rather attend South Lakes and spend less on gas. The difference in SAT scores between South Lakes and Oakton is negligible, and probably due to the fact that Oakton currently absorbs students from higher income areas. The true reason that people are against redistricting to South Lakes is that Oakton parents are afraid of their kids going to school with black people.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
C
()
Date: August 16, 2007 03:40PM
i went to oakton, and i wish i didnt.. i hate that school only good part about it was our soccer team, but u can say i dont live in " Oakton" or vienna or herndon where most the students come from, i live in fairfax circle where most the people from that area where the minorities.. There is alot of racism and favoritism in oakton, most the people i know where kicked out.. i could go thru a park and cross the street and be at fairfax Hs, where i wish i couda gone
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
tweedle
()
Date: August 16, 2007 05:29PM
In all honesty the environment at Oakton promotes segregation and the monotonous culture of upper middle class white people. There is still a substantial minority population that seldom mixes with the white majority. The atmosphere at chantilly(which has similar racial figures) is much more integrated racially. I would have rather gone to any other school than oakton because everyone there thinks there "place" must be with their own race and income and branching out from that standard is seen strange to many. I bet kids that went to south lakes leave with a better tolerance/understanding of other cultures.
ps im white
ps im white
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
tweedle
()
Date: August 16, 2007 05:30PM
i agree with "C"
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Mom of elementary age children
()
Date: August 17, 2007 10:33AM
We live in Oakton but are in the Madison school district. Our children attend Flint Hill Elementary School in Vienna. I'm worried about our children attending South Lakes because of my fear of gangs and violence. My husband is concerned about the quality of the teachers and the low test scores -- although that is old information. I admit that I know very little about what the schools are actually like. How do you find reliable information about the quality of the schools in this area? Are there any local papers that do a good job of covering this?
We are not "afraid of [our] kids going to school with black people". People of any race are capable of contributing to an atmosphere of hate and fear. The question is, Will the students, families, teachers, and administrators work together to create a safe learning environment so that everyone can succeed?
We are not "afraid of [our] kids going to school with black people". People of any race are capable of contributing to an atmosphere of hate and fear. The question is, Will the students, families, teachers, and administrators work together to create a safe learning environment so that everyone can succeed?
Chantilly Mortgage = South Lakes education -NOT!!!
Posted by:
Chantilly Lisa
()
Date: August 17, 2007 03:19PM
My husband and I bouth a house in Chantilly Highlands three years ago so that our kids could attend Chantilly High School. We borrowed from our retirement funds and have a have a mortgage that leaves us no extra money at the end of the month, but we did this so that our kids could go to Chantilly HS. You can say what you want about South Lakes HS, but the reality is that the value of my home will PLUMMET as a result of being in the South Lakes HS district. That is a FACT!!! Is the School Board going to compensate me for all the money we wasted paying to live in the Chantilly HS district? I can promise you that whatever elected official is up for election better think long and hard about supporting this redistricting. I can tell you right now that the Chantilly Highlands parents ARE NOT going to accept this!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: August 17, 2007 04:25PM
Hey, instead of worrying about school districts....make your kiddies unplug the ipod and log off of MyFace (or whatever it is) and CRACK THE BOOKS.
That way, they can go to TJHSST...and it doesn't matter where you live. ALL County high schools are second-rate compared to TJ.
If they're not smart enough to get into TJ...they're just killin' time anyway.
That way, they can go to TJHSST...and it doesn't matter where you live. ALL County high schools are second-rate compared to TJ.
If they're not smart enough to get into TJ...they're just killin' time anyway.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: August 17, 2007 04:45PM
Mom of elementary age children Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We live in Oakton but are in the Madison school
> district. Our children attend Flint Hill
> Elementary School in Vienna. I'm worried about
> our children attending South Lakes because of my
> fear of gangs and violence. My husband is
> concerned about the quality of the teachers and
> the low test scores -- although that is old
> information. I admit that I know very little
> about what the schools are actually like. How do
> you find reliable information about the quality of
> the schools in this area? Are there any local
> papers that do a good job of covering this?
>
> We are not "afraid of kids going to school with
> black people". People of any race are capable of
> contributing to an atmosphere of hate and fear.
> The question is, Will the students, families,
> teachers, and administrators work together to
> create a safe learning environment so that
> everyone can succeed?
Ma'am my suggestion is for you to go to South Lakes one day and talk to Mr. Butler the principal and I am confident that he will show you around to the true south lakes. In all honesty the school is what you make of it. Some kids choose to just get by. While we have students who sap every possible resource to it's full potential and get into Princeton and MIT just like any school will boast. Last year alone we had five students get into the Academies everything from West Point to Annapolis to Colrodo Springs.
The gangs and violence, low test scores and the quality of teachers is a valid concern that I'm sure Mr. Butler will address with utmost honesty.
-------------------------------------------------------
> We live in Oakton but are in the Madison school
> district. Our children attend Flint Hill
> Elementary School in Vienna. I'm worried about
> our children attending South Lakes because of my
> fear of gangs and violence. My husband is
> concerned about the quality of the teachers and
> the low test scores -- although that is old
> information. I admit that I know very little
> about what the schools are actually like. How do
> you find reliable information about the quality of
> the schools in this area? Are there any local
> papers that do a good job of covering this?
>
> We are not "afraid of kids going to school with
> black people". People of any race are capable of
> contributing to an atmosphere of hate and fear.
> The question is, Will the students, families,
> teachers, and administrators work together to
> create a safe learning environment so that
> everyone can succeed?
Ma'am my suggestion is for you to go to South Lakes one day and talk to Mr. Butler the principal and I am confident that he will show you around to the true south lakes. In all honesty the school is what you make of it. Some kids choose to just get by. While we have students who sap every possible resource to it's full potential and get into Princeton and MIT just like any school will boast. Last year alone we had five students get into the Academies everything from West Point to Annapolis to Colrodo Springs.
The gangs and violence, low test scores and the quality of teachers is a valid concern that I'm sure Mr. Butler will address with utmost honesty.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 18, 2007 05:34PM
All the comments coming out of parents who send their kids to "better" schools support what I have contended all along. People don't want their white Johnny hanging out with black Leon or brown Jose. As for the home value argument, I can sympathize, but the fact is nobody should leverage their entire life in the hopes their kid goes to the best school (by the way, Bush's No Child Left Behind is forcing Fairfax County's hand here. If you don't like it, don't vote Republican).
I have worked in the education realm for years. The No. 1 factor in a student succeeding academically is the home environment. If the kid lives in a home that supports education and that stays on him or her to learn and succeed, the school, unless it is a travesty like some of the DC schools, shouldn't make a huge difference.
In fact, I would rather have my kids hanging around an ethnically diverse group of kids instead of a bunch of well-healed kids of lawyers and lobbyists who can afford blow for every weekend party and good lawyers for those date-rape cases.
I have worked in the education realm for years. The No. 1 factor in a student succeeding academically is the home environment. If the kid lives in a home that supports education and that stays on him or her to learn and succeed, the school, unless it is a travesty like some of the DC schools, shouldn't make a huge difference.
In fact, I would rather have my kids hanging around an ethnically diverse group of kids instead of a bunch of well-healed kids of lawyers and lobbyists who can afford blow for every weekend party and good lawyers for those date-rape cases.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
southlakeseatsdicks
()
Date: August 18, 2007 08:37PM
My last memory of south lakes was the last meeting as a class we had in the big theater before graduation. I remember after the meeting with "inspirational words" from faculty who were full of shit and then being let out into the hallways where recruiters from the Army and Marine Corps (notice no navy or chair force ? haha) had already set up their stations for recruiting haha. That really made us look forward to our bright futures haha.
Honestly coming from someone who went there and has friends/family still going there if you can avoid sending your kids to SL or herndon do it.
Honestly coming from someone who went there and has friends/family still going there if you can avoid sending your kids to SL or herndon do it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 18, 2007 09:11PM
southlakeseatsdicks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My last memory of south lakes was the last meeting
> as a class we had in the big theater before
> graduation. I remember after the meeting with
> "inspirational words" from faculty who were full
> of shit and then being let out into the hallways
> where recruiters from the Army and Marine Corps
> (notice no navy or chair force ? haha) had already
> set up their stations for recruiting haha. That
> really made us look forward to our bright futures
> haha.
Every school does this. There is cannon fodder at every school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> My last memory of south lakes was the last meeting
> as a class we had in the big theater before
> graduation. I remember after the meeting with
> "inspirational words" from faculty who were full
> of shit and then being let out into the hallways
> where recruiters from the Army and Marine Corps
> (notice no navy or chair force ? haha) had already
> set up their stations for recruiting haha. That
> really made us look forward to our bright futures
> haha.
Every school does this. There is cannon fodder at every school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Not a hard concept
()
Date: August 19, 2007 02:22AM
it's because rich white parents don't want their kids to have to put up with poor minorities. right or wrong, it's the truth..
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax MF---er
()
Date: August 19, 2007 08:48AM
Not a hard concept Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's because rich white parents don't want their
> kids to have to put up with poor minorities. right
> or wrong, it's the truth..
Absolutely right.
Granted, I would be pissed if I were paying Oakton property taxes and sending my kid to a school that was, say, less socially economically advantaged. However, the reason people are house poor in Oakton is all predicated on getting away from minorities. I find this to be humorously ironic.
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's because rich white parents don't want their
> kids to have to put up with poor minorities. right
> or wrong, it's the truth..
Absolutely right.
Granted, I would be pissed if I were paying Oakton property taxes and sending my kid to a school that was, say, less socially economically advantaged. However, the reason people are house poor in Oakton is all predicated on getting away from minorities. I find this to be humorously ironic.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: August 19, 2007 01:45PM
blow up schools with horrible academic records (with kids in it) and then there is no redistricting. problem solved.
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
c
()
Date: August 20, 2007 04:02PM
Uhm if any of yall havent noticed that u live in FAIRFAX COUNTY!! Does it really matter what school your kids go to??
Minoritys or not theres bad seeds every where.
Minoritys or not theres bad seeds every where.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax MF---er
()
Date: August 20, 2007 04:07PM
c Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uhm if any of yall havent noticed that u live in
> FAIRFAX COUNTY!! Does it really matter what school
> your kids go to??
> Minoritys or not theres bad seeds every where.
Agreed. Note that George W. Bush, Al Gore and Dan Quayle were all Grade C students who got pushed through into great schools because of daddy's wallet and name. Same shit goes on in Fairfax. Fairfax parents are only too happy to sue the school to get an "A" for their dumbass, coke snorting, asshole kid.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uhm if any of yall havent noticed that u live in
> FAIRFAX COUNTY!! Does it really matter what school
> your kids go to??
> Minoritys or not theres bad seeds every where.
Agreed. Note that George W. Bush, Al Gore and Dan Quayle were all Grade C students who got pushed through into great schools because of daddy's wallet and name. Same shit goes on in Fairfax. Fairfax parents are only too happy to sue the school to get an "A" for their dumbass, coke snorting, asshole kid.
Who are the racists here?
Posted by:
Chantilly Mom
()
Date: August 20, 2007 04:55PM
If want my kids in a top performing school because it is a TOP PERFORMING SCHOOL, why does that make me a racist? Yes, my kids are white, and I don't want my children to be - in effect - BUSSED - to a lower performing school just so that that the lower performing school can have a higher percentage of white kids. Talk about racist!!! Those calling for redistricting admit that they are seeking and 'ethnically diverse' mix based on RACE and CULTURAL and ECONOMIC status. Excuse me.... THAT IS WHERE THE RACISM LIES!!!
I don't care what color you are, what country you come from, what religion you practice or where you live. The fact is that I want my child to go the school with the best academic record. When we moved here we chose to move into an area that would allow our children to go to one of the top 100 High Schools in the country, and we've paid a pretty penny to ensure that they would. South Lakes has a terrible reputation and a bad academic record. They want to BUS my child and use her as a 'guinea pig' to help prop up a failing school. Rather than gearing the academic curriculum to the address the needs of the students they have, they want to 'reshuffle' the deck to get more white kids. That is just plain BACKWARDS!!!
Fairfax County feels justified in segregating the supposedly GIFTED and TALENTED' kids in seperate schools to address their needs. But it is called 'racist' if you suggest they gear a particular schools curriculum to kids who are - for WHATEVER REASON - low performers. What hypocrisy!!!
I don't care what color you are, what country you come from, what religion you practice or where you live. The fact is that I want my child to go the school with the best academic record. When we moved here we chose to move into an area that would allow our children to go to one of the top 100 High Schools in the country, and we've paid a pretty penny to ensure that they would. South Lakes has a terrible reputation and a bad academic record. They want to BUS my child and use her as a 'guinea pig' to help prop up a failing school. Rather than gearing the academic curriculum to the address the needs of the students they have, they want to 'reshuffle' the deck to get more white kids. That is just plain BACKWARDS!!!
Fairfax County feels justified in segregating the supposedly GIFTED and TALENTED' kids in seperate schools to address their needs. But it is called 'racist' if you suggest they gear a particular schools curriculum to kids who are - for WHATEVER REASON - low performers. What hypocrisy!!!
Re: Who are the racists here?
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 20, 2007 07:45PM
Chantilly Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Fairfax County feels justified in segregating the
> supposedly GIFTED and TALENTED' kids in seperate
> schools to address their needs. But it is called
> 'racist' if you suggest they gear a particular
> schools curriculum to kids who are - for WHATEVER
> REASON - low performers. What hypocrisy!!!
I take it your kids aren't gifted and talented.
By chance, did you vote for George W. Bush? If you did, you have only yourself to blame. This is a reaction to No Child Left Behind. I would suggest you contact your member of Congress and Senators Warner and Webb and ask that the law be scrapped when it comes up for renewal.
Incidentally, I do think you are over-reacting. Despite the fact brown people go there, South Lakes SOL scores are pretty solid. But I can certainly understand why you are pissed given how much you have overpaid for your home.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Fairfax County feels justified in segregating the
> supposedly GIFTED and TALENTED' kids in seperate
> schools to address their needs. But it is called
> 'racist' if you suggest they gear a particular
> schools curriculum to kids who are - for WHATEVER
> REASON - low performers. What hypocrisy!!!
I take it your kids aren't gifted and talented.
By chance, did you vote for George W. Bush? If you did, you have only yourself to blame. This is a reaction to No Child Left Behind. I would suggest you contact your member of Congress and Senators Warner and Webb and ask that the law be scrapped when it comes up for renewal.
Incidentally, I do think you are over-reacting. Despite the fact brown people go there, South Lakes SOL scores are pretty solid. But I can certainly understand why you are pissed given how much you have overpaid for your home.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
soccerguy315
()
Date: August 21, 2007 04:08PM
--------------------------
When we moved here we chose to move into an area that would allow our children to go to one of the top 100 High Schools in the country, and we've paid a pretty penny to ensure that they would. South Lakes has a terrible reputation and a bad academic record. They want to BUS my child and use her as a 'guinea pig' to help prop up a failing school. Rather than gearing the academic curriculum to the address the needs of the students they have, they want to 'reshuffle' the deck to get more white kids. That is just plain BACKWARDS!!!
-------------------
There are over 27,000 high schools in the United States. Now, if you were intelligent, you would know that measuring a school by the number of IB/AP tests the average senior takes is not a good way of measuring how good a school is. It more accurately measures how wealthy the district is, and disadvantages IB schools.
But even if you want to look at those rankings, you are arguing top 100 vs. top 500 (I don't know where SL was ranked), I'm guessing here. So, you are arguing in the top 2% of high schools in the country.
If you were a good parent, you would have confidence that your child could find success in such an enviornment, even if there are some students there that are not white.
I graduated from South Lakes, and somehow I managed to surround myself with people who now go to school at UVA, William and Mary as well as exclusive private schools in the northeast. People who have graduated from college and have become teachers in fairfax county. People who have given years of their lives to educating in some of the most underpriviledged areas of the country. People who have raised thousands of dollars to support causes they believe in. People who have gained acceptance into the military academies. Honestly, is this your definition of a 'failing school'? One of the best high schools in the country, you are claiming is a 'failing school." Think about whath you are saying.
No one is being bused anywhere. South Lakes has like 1300 students. It has always been underpopulated, and has become more so recently. Why should some schools in the county be underpopulated while other schools struggle with overcrowding? Does that make sense? Honestly, does that make sense?
If you don't want your kid to go there because you think he might be knifed, don't worry, it won't happen. If you don't want your kid to go there because s/he might makes friends with a black person, worry, it will happen. If you think your kid will gain a better outlook on life, worry, it will happen.
The world's not a happy rich box full of white people covered in purple. Eventually the real world will happen.
/SL IB Diploma graduate, 2004
When we moved here we chose to move into an area that would allow our children to go to one of the top 100 High Schools in the country, and we've paid a pretty penny to ensure that they would. South Lakes has a terrible reputation and a bad academic record. They want to BUS my child and use her as a 'guinea pig' to help prop up a failing school. Rather than gearing the academic curriculum to the address the needs of the students they have, they want to 'reshuffle' the deck to get more white kids. That is just plain BACKWARDS!!!
-------------------
There are over 27,000 high schools in the United States. Now, if you were intelligent, you would know that measuring a school by the number of IB/AP tests the average senior takes is not a good way of measuring how good a school is. It more accurately measures how wealthy the district is, and disadvantages IB schools.
But even if you want to look at those rankings, you are arguing top 100 vs. top 500 (I don't know where SL was ranked), I'm guessing here. So, you are arguing in the top 2% of high schools in the country.
If you were a good parent, you would have confidence that your child could find success in such an enviornment, even if there are some students there that are not white.
I graduated from South Lakes, and somehow I managed to surround myself with people who now go to school at UVA, William and Mary as well as exclusive private schools in the northeast. People who have graduated from college and have become teachers in fairfax county. People who have given years of their lives to educating in some of the most underpriviledged areas of the country. People who have raised thousands of dollars to support causes they believe in. People who have gained acceptance into the military academies. Honestly, is this your definition of a 'failing school'? One of the best high schools in the country, you are claiming is a 'failing school." Think about whath you are saying.
No one is being bused anywhere. South Lakes has like 1300 students. It has always been underpopulated, and has become more so recently. Why should some schools in the county be underpopulated while other schools struggle with overcrowding? Does that make sense? Honestly, does that make sense?
If you don't want your kid to go there because you think he might be knifed, don't worry, it won't happen. If you don't want your kid to go there because s/he might makes friends with a black person, worry, it will happen. If you think your kid will gain a better outlook on life, worry, it will happen.
The world's not a happy rich box full of white people covered in purple. Eventually the real world will happen.
/SL IB Diploma graduate, 2004
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lurker.
()
Date: August 21, 2007 04:42PM
I know several people who graduated from South Lakes in the 80's. They ended up attending UVA, W&M and one attended Harvard. I cannot attest to the current state of education at SL but I can tell you that there were always some racial tensions at the school.
There as far worse schools in Fairfax County than SL, for example Marshall. You can't even compare Fairfax County schools to DC schools.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2007 05:09PM by Lurker..
There as far worse schools in Fairfax County than SL, for example Marshall. You can't even compare Fairfax County schools to DC schools.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2007 05:09PM by Lurker..
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax MF---er
()
Date: August 21, 2007 04:43PM
soccerguy nailed it. And yes, the IB/AP test thing is total bullshit. Everybody is doing it because Newsweek uses that as the standard. If you actually look at some of those "top schools" on GreatSchools.net, their SOL/Stanford 9 tests aren't any better than a school like South Lakes.
As for Chantilly Mom, maybe if your kids have to go to school with black and hispanic students they, and you, will lose your unfounded and irrational sense of entitlement.
As for Chantilly Mom, maybe if your kids have to go to school with black and hispanic students they, and you, will lose your unfounded and irrational sense of entitlement.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax MF---er
()
Date: August 21, 2007 04:44PM
Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know several people who graduated from South
> Lakes in the 80's. They ended up attended UVA,
> W&M and one went attended to Harvard. I cannot
> attest to the current state of education at SL but
> I can tell you that there were always some racial
> tensions at the school.
There's racial tension in life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know several people who graduated from South
> Lakes in the 80's. They ended up attended UVA,
> W&M and one went attended to Harvard. I cannot
> attest to the current state of education at SL but
> I can tell you that there were always some racial
> tensions at the school.
There's racial tension in life.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lurker.
()
Date: August 21, 2007 04:50PM
I agree, making the World look rose covered is handicapping a kid to be able to cope in life.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax MF---er
()
Date: August 21, 2007 04:57PM
A lot of great people went to so-so high schools. I think education gives what you can take from it. Besides, most really affluent and image-conscious white people I know are fucking miserable human beings. I don't think I want my kids to learn to aspire to that way of thinking and living.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lurker.
()
Date: August 21, 2007 05:11PM
The issue should be the quality of the teachers at the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slinkeyts
()
Date: August 22, 2007 12:11AM
teachers fuck up everything
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SRE
()
Date: August 22, 2007 09:02AM
slinkeyts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> teachers fuck up everything
Sometimes they are on top!
-------------------------------------------------------
> teachers fuck up everything
Sometimes they are on top!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Chantilly Mom
()
Date: August 22, 2007 09:03AM
I ain't no racist, but I don't wants my Billy Bob to go to school with no darkies. Billy Bob can't compete with them people when it comes to the football.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
NCLB realist
()
Date: August 24, 2007 09:27PM
>By chance, did you vote for George W. Bush? If you did, you have only yourself to
>blame. This is a reaction to No Child Left Behind. I would suggest you contact your
>member of Congress and Senators Warner and Webb and ask that the law be scrapped
>when it comes up for renewal.
NCLB was authored and sponsored by Senator Edward Kennedy, a Democrat. Bush may have supported and signed it, but it was Kennedy's baby and a bipartisan clusterf*ck. I'm all for scrapping the program, but voting Democrat won't accomplish that and will cause a whole lot of other worse problems. By all means, hold both of our Senators' feet to the fire over NCLB, but understand that bashing a lame-duck President isn't going to help anything,
>blame. This is a reaction to No Child Left Behind. I would suggest you contact your
>member of Congress and Senators Warner and Webb and ask that the law be scrapped
>when it comes up for renewal.
NCLB was authored and sponsored by Senator Edward Kennedy, a Democrat. Bush may have supported and signed it, but it was Kennedy's baby and a bipartisan clusterf*ck. I'm all for scrapping the program, but voting Democrat won't accomplish that and will cause a whole lot of other worse problems. By all means, hold both of our Senators' feet to the fire over NCLB, but understand that bashing a lame-duck President isn't going to help anything,
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 24, 2007 09:40PM
NCLB realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >By chance, did you vote for George W. Bush? If
> you did, you have only yourself to
> >blame. This is a reaction to No Child Left
> Behind. I would suggest you contact your
> >member of Congress and Senators Warner and Webb
> and ask that the law be scrapped
> >when it comes up for renewal.
>
> NCLB was authored and sponsored by Senator Edward
> Kennedy, a Democrat. Bush may have supported and
> signed it, but it was Kennedy's baby and a
> bipartisan clusterf*ck. I'm all for scrapping the
> program, but voting Democrat won't accomplish that
> and will cause a whole lot of other worse
> problems. By all means, hold both of our
> Senators' feet to the fire over NCLB, but
> understand that bashing a lame-duck President
> isn't going to help anything,
The teachers unions hate NCLB. Do the Republicans listen to teachers? Hell no.
THAT is why you need to vote for the Democrats.
Ted Kennedy is a screw up. But NCLB wouldn't have been possible with Bush and the Republicans.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >By chance, did you vote for George W. Bush? If
> you did, you have only yourself to
> >blame. This is a reaction to No Child Left
> Behind. I would suggest you contact your
> >member of Congress and Senators Warner and Webb
> and ask that the law be scrapped
> >when it comes up for renewal.
>
> NCLB was authored and sponsored by Senator Edward
> Kennedy, a Democrat. Bush may have supported and
> signed it, but it was Kennedy's baby and a
> bipartisan clusterf*ck. I'm all for scrapping the
> program, but voting Democrat won't accomplish that
> and will cause a whole lot of other worse
> problems. By all means, hold both of our
> Senators' feet to the fire over NCLB, but
> understand that bashing a lame-duck President
> isn't going to help anything,
The teachers unions hate NCLB. Do the Republicans listen to teachers? Hell no.
THAT is why you need to vote for the Democrats.
Ted Kennedy is a screw up. But NCLB wouldn't have been possible with Bush and the Republicans.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 24, 2007 09:41PM
As for No Child Left Behind, about 1/3 of Virginia schools have failed to meet standards under NCLB this year. If that doesn't sound the beginning of the end of this crap legislation, I don't know what will.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
NCLB Realist
()
Date: August 27, 2007 09:08PM
Teachers unions represent teachers who belong to the union -- not children. There's even a famous quote from the head of the NEA or AFT that said "When schoolchildren start paying union dues, then I'll start representing the interests of schoolchildren." I don't give a crap what the teachers unions want for their dues-paying employees -- I want what's best for my KIDS. So I won't be voting Democrat, but thanks for the tip.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WashingToneLocian
()
Date: August 27, 2007 10:19PM
NCLB Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers unions represent teachers who belong to
> the union -- not children. There's even a famous
> quote from the head of the NEA or AFT that said
> "When schoolchildren start paying union dues, then
> I'll start representing the interests of
> schoolchildren." I don't give a crap what the
> teachers unions want for their dues-paying
> employees -- I want what's best for my KIDS. So I
> won't be voting Democrat, but thanks for the tip.
Do you think Republican Congressmen want what's best for schoolchildren?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers unions represent teachers who belong to
> the union -- not children. There's even a famous
> quote from the head of the NEA or AFT that said
> "When schoolchildren start paying union dues, then
> I'll start representing the interests of
> schoolchildren." I don't give a crap what the
> teachers unions want for their dues-paying
> employees -- I want what's best for my KIDS. So I
> won't be voting Democrat, but thanks for the tip.
Do you think Republican Congressmen want what's best for schoolchildren?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
a human being
()
Date: August 30, 2007 11:22PM
If you don't want your kid to go there because you think he might be knifed, don't worry, it won't happen. If you don't want your kid to go there because s/he might makes friends with a black person, worry, it will happen. If you think your kid will gain a better outlook on life, worry, it will happen.
This is a great statement and so very true!!
This is a great statement and so very true!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Girl
()
Date: August 31, 2007 09:55AM
I can't wait to see the look on my white lobbyist father's face when I bring my first black South Lakes boyfriend home. Chocolate Rain, indeed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: August 31, 2007 06:28PM
I'm in the SL pyramid. My kids are at Hughes and Hunters Woods and I can honestly say our experiences there have been just fine. My kids have made great friends and are "good kids". No one in my neighborhood is worried about South Lakes, because they have kids there or are going to, and the word is that South Lakes is what you make it, what your kids make it. It has a great Arts program and I personally like the diversity, and have heard from countless people that the SL reputation is really unfair. Really, the test scores are not that different in the scheme of things! They probably just reflect the broader mix of students, not how YOUR kid is going to do if they work hard and do IB!
I know people with experiences at both Oakton and South Lakes and they generally think that both schools have problems, just different problems, but are not opposed to their kids going to SL. With SL you may have more fights but also more tolerance of differences. With Oakton, you have many more overprivileged kids with a sense of entitlement and more drug problems. I've also heard that the parents at Oakton are not as friendly as at SL. This is all just hearsay, so take it FWIW.
Also, people forget that with the redistricting will come a greater socioeconomic balance, so SL will be even better than it is now. The statistics will change drastically, so that it will look much more like the schools in surrounding areas. Between that and the renovation and our great principal, SL might be even better than surrounding schools, because it's trying harder.
Nuff said.
I know people with experiences at both Oakton and South Lakes and they generally think that both schools have problems, just different problems, but are not opposed to their kids going to SL. With SL you may have more fights but also more tolerance of differences. With Oakton, you have many more overprivileged kids with a sense of entitlement and more drug problems. I've also heard that the parents at Oakton are not as friendly as at SL. This is all just hearsay, so take it FWIW.
Also, people forget that with the redistricting will come a greater socioeconomic balance, so SL will be even better than it is now. The statistics will change drastically, so that it will look much more like the schools in surrounding areas. Between that and the renovation and our great principal, SL might be even better than surrounding schools, because it's trying harder.
Nuff said.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
moron
()
Date: August 31, 2007 08:30PM
"Also, people forget that with the redistricting will come a greater socioeconomic balance, so SL will be even better than it is now. The statistics will change drastically, so that it will look much more like the schools in surrounding areas. Between that and the renovation and our great principal, SL might be even better than surrounding schools, because it's trying harder."
I hate to provide you disappointing news, but the redistricting will never happen.
Too many lawsuits by homeowners claiming that their home values will be hurt because
the proposed redistricting.
Real estate agents don't help matters by directing home buyers, especially newcomers, to certain school pyramids. Ever notice the RE ads in the local papers. I never saw one promoting the South Lakes or Marshall pryamids. For sure, you'll see Madison, Oakton, and Langley in their ads. Higher sales price = higher commission.
I hate to provide you disappointing news, but the redistricting will never happen.
Too many lawsuits by homeowners claiming that their home values will be hurt because
the proposed redistricting.
Real estate agents don't help matters by directing home buyers, especially newcomers, to certain school pyramids. Ever notice the RE ads in the local papers. I never saw one promoting the South Lakes or Marshall pryamids. For sure, you'll see Madison, Oakton, and Langley in their ads. Higher sales price = higher commission.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
zonker
()
Date: August 31, 2007 10:45PM
I'm guessing no one here has heard of private school?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: September 01, 2007 03:40AM
"I can't wait to see the look on my white lobbyist father's face when I bring my first black South Lakes boyfriend home. Chocolate Rain, indeed."
BAHAHAHAH. its good to see people can have a sense of humor.
dear elementary mom:
there is no atmosphere of fear at south lakes. as at every school, there are a few bad kids. the only gang incident last year was a bunch of deadbeat kids who, lets face it, aren't going anywhere in life. this in no way reflects the school. it was three kids. and a week later the newspaper reported that a gang had tagged a shed in a man's backyard. i know his son. it wasn't a gang that tagged a shed, it was the kid messing around because he figured his dad would never go back and see it and it wouldn't be a big deal.
the thing about south lakes is that while it is racially diverse, so are groups of friends. we see people as people and don't judge them by their skin tone. if your kid (not specifically directed to elem mom) was raised in a white civil rights era atmosphere then sure, south lakes wouldn't be the best fit for him. send him to a private school.
soccerguy knows exactly what he's talking about and was dead-on.
BAHAHAHAH. its good to see people can have a sense of humor.
dear elementary mom:
there is no atmosphere of fear at south lakes. as at every school, there are a few bad kids. the only gang incident last year was a bunch of deadbeat kids who, lets face it, aren't going anywhere in life. this in no way reflects the school. it was three kids. and a week later the newspaper reported that a gang had tagged a shed in a man's backyard. i know his son. it wasn't a gang that tagged a shed, it was the kid messing around because he figured his dad would never go back and see it and it wouldn't be a big deal.
the thing about south lakes is that while it is racially diverse, so are groups of friends. we see people as people and don't judge them by their skin tone. if your kid (not specifically directed to elem mom) was raised in a white civil rights era atmosphere then sure, south lakes wouldn't be the best fit for him. send him to a private school.
soccerguy knows exactly what he's talking about and was dead-on.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: September 01, 2007 10:33AM
To Moron,
I don't think falling RE values is a valid basis for lawsuit since 1) it's hypothetical, and 2) when did Fairfax County ever listen to homeowners? I guess SL people could also sue FFC for depressing their RE values. See? It really doesn't hold water.
I don't think they are adding all that capacity at SL for nothing. Also, I've heard from several Oakton people that they would prefer SL becausee it is much closer than Oakton for them. So there really are two sides to this. I don't think the whiners are going to win.
I don't think falling RE values is a valid basis for lawsuit since 1) it's hypothetical, and 2) when did Fairfax County ever listen to homeowners? I guess SL people could also sue FFC for depressing their RE values. See? It really doesn't hold water.
I don't think they are adding all that capacity at SL for nothing. Also, I've heard from several Oakton people that they would prefer SL becausee it is much closer than Oakton for them. So there really are two sides to this. I don't think the whiners are going to win.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: September 01, 2007 11:01AM
You can sue anybody for anything.
But I think that a suit against the County over school redistricting might run into a brick wall called "municipal immunity". Just like if you fall on the sidewalk...don't waste your time and money trying to sue the County.
But I think that a suit against the County over school redistricting might run into a brick wall called "municipal immunity". Just like if you fall on the sidewalk...don't waste your time and money trying to sue the County.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
MBF
()
Date: September 01, 2007 11:25AM
There is/was a lawsuit against the county recently (it may have been settled by now, I saw the paperwork when it was still underway about 2 months ago) for a woman who tripped on an upturned manhole cover owned by the ffx co dpwes and if I recall correctly, broke her wrist and dislocated her shoulder. When I saw the court paperwork, it looked like she would be getting her medical bills paid.
I could be wrong though.
I could be wrong though.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Moron
()
Date: September 01, 2007 11:36AM
Did you notice that the school board did not include parts of North Reston as part of the SL? That area happens to be part of Langley HS boundary . Although SL and even Herndon HS's are within 3-4 miles from there, the parents would rather have their kids drive their Beamers to Langley, which is a good 12 miles away. As a result of the school board catering to these areas, which have no business going to Langley, the schools in the pyramid are overcrowded when most schools in the county are declining in enrollment. I've heard several occasions that homeowners in the Langley district would sue the county if the boundary is changed.
Sorry if this sounds like my previous posts. If they are going to have kids going there from 12 miles away, why not include Bailey's Crossroads/Falls Church area, which is just as far? See what that does to the SAT scores and its reputation.
Sorry if this sounds like my previous posts. If they are going to have kids going there from 12 miles away, why not include Bailey's Crossroads/Falls Church area, which is just as far? See what that does to the SAT scores and its reputation.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: September 01, 2007 04:59PM
MBF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is/was a lawsuit against the county recently
> for a woman who tripped on an upturned
> manhole cover owned by the ffx co dpwes and if I
> recall correctly, broke her wrist and dislocated
> her shoulder.
i would be pissed off if something like that happened to me too. however, is she made out of glass or something?!
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is/was a lawsuit against the county recently
> for a woman who tripped on an upturned
> manhole cover owned by the ffx co dpwes and if I
> recall correctly, broke her wrist and dislocated
> her shoulder.
i would be pissed off if something like that happened to me too. however, is she made out of glass or something?!
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: September 01, 2007 06:28PM
I think that case sounds a lot more clear cut than possible RE value slippage. Also, since SL will look a lot more like the other schools in terms of test scores, etc, there will be less reason for people to want to avoid SL, hence less potential slippage anyway.
When you look at the boundaries for Herndon High, where North Reston goes, it is not over capacity, so it probably wouldn't make sense to move students from there.
When you look at the boundaries for Herndon High, where North Reston goes, it is not over capacity, so it probably wouldn't make sense to move students from there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lake Tyrone
()
Date: September 01, 2007 06:40PM
You Oakton Girl. Where can I hit the phat ass?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: September 02, 2007 06:27AM
A rather profound and thoughtful exchange of ideas. Is the problem one of nurturing? Economics? Race? Politics? Or, all of the preceding? How do the folks who live in Fairfax Station (sic, Lorton) or those in Herdon (sic, Oak Hill) feel about this situation? Let's continue this robust and interesting sharing of ideas and opinions. It's healthful.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TRICKIE
()
Date: September 02, 2007 09:17AM
OMG! The Fairfax Station parents will have a lot to say. Their school is so overcrowded already they had to send a bunch of kids back to Hayfield this year for middle school. Here we go again- complaints about the long bus drive, no community coheseiveness, splitting up siblings, etc.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: September 02, 2007 11:38AM
...at least the psychodrama may lead to catharsis
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lake Tyrone
()
Date: September 02, 2007 06:28PM
Bob James Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...at least the psychodrama may lead to catharsis
I need me some vanilla meat curtains. Mmmm, mmmm, mmm.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...at least the psychodrama may lead to catharsis
I need me some vanilla meat curtains. Mmmm, mmmm, mmm.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: September 02, 2007 06:32PM
See, Tyrone, it's working already. Good luck with your SATs.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Moron
()
Date: September 03, 2007 03:18PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> When you look at the boundaries for Herndon High,
> where North Reston goes, it is not over capacity,
> so it probably wouldn't make sense to move
> students from there.
Somehow your North Reston neighbors living in the Mac-Mansions near Reston Pkwy and Rt 7 are attending Langley. How come they are not going to Herndon or SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> When you look at the boundaries for Herndon High,
> where North Reston goes, it is not over capacity,
> so it probably wouldn't make sense to move
> students from there.
Somehow your North Reston neighbors living in the Mac-Mansions near Reston Pkwy and Rt 7 are attending Langley. How come they are not going to Herndon or SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Unbiased Observer
()
Date: September 04, 2007 03:45PM
Positive reinforcement produces positive behavior. Is your child better off going to a school with similar social-economic children or attending school with children from a difference social-economic strata. Or does society benefit more from social-economic diversity?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: September 04, 2007 08:41PM
Unbiased Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Positive reinforcement produces positive behavior.
and negative/abusive reinforcement causes a escalating spiral of anger. in such a trend, this is eventually expressed in an abusive manner or becoming a victim of abuse. i say we beat all the children!
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Positive reinforcement produces positive behavior.
and negative/abusive reinforcement causes a escalating spiral of anger. in such a trend, this is eventually expressed in an abusive manner or becoming a victim of abuse. i say we beat all the children!
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
NorthRestonParent
()
Date: September 04, 2007 08:42PM
North Reston parents prefer South Lakes. Seahawks rule! Bean me up Scottie.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
NCLB Realist
()
Date: September 04, 2007 11:04PM
WashingToneLocian Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
>
> Do you think Republican Congressmen want what's
> best for schoolchildren?
I don't think ANY Congressman or politician, Republican or Democrat, cares what's best for schoolchildren. As a parent, it's MY job to care.
------------------------------------------------------->
>
> Do you think Republican Congressmen want what's
> best for schoolchildren?
I don't think ANY Congressman or politician, Republican or Democrat, cares what's best for schoolchildren. As a parent, it's MY job to care.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Stephanie
()
Date: September 09, 2007 09:24PM
I am currently a student at South Lakes High School, and I take pride in the fact that I am a Seahawk. I participate in sports and maintain a 3.5 average in honors and ib classes. I'm an IB diploma canidate as well. I can say that I've learned a lot as a person from going to South Lakes. It's an enriching experience that has taught me about different people and most importantly myself. As many have already said, I believe we shouldn't be wrapped up in statistics, because we are all individuals, and we are all different. School is literally what you make of it. It doesn't matter if you have the best and top rated teachers in the world, no teacher can make a student apply themself. I can promise that the faculty at South Lakes, and the entire staff is extremely helpful though. They've helped me every step of the way and made sure that the enviroment we work in is the best learning enviorment possible. I'd like to take a moment to remind you all that we live in Fairfax County, Virginia. Not only one of the richest counties in the US, but with an education system that goes beyond the norm. I stepped into South Lakes my freshmen year coming from a different middle school, one that fed into the Oakton and Westfield High Schools. And to this day, I have no regret with the choice I made in coming to South Lakes. The students welcomed me with open arms and made sure that I was comfortable in knowing my way around. I am extremely proud to say I am a student at South Lakes, because we have a tremendous amount of pride. Our diversity is what makes us unique, and we have learned because of our diversity that we are all human beings and we are all the same on the inside. Now please re-think what I've said. Does it sound like some kid who fails there SOL's and drops out of school? No. I'm simply a student who maintains a solid and strong GPA in honors classes, who has never been suspended, expelled, or involved in any violent behavior. I have friends like every other kid at South Lakes, and I attend our football games with as much enthusiasm as any other student. In truth, South Lakes does not deserve the reputation it has. I'm sure I speak for everyone at South Lakes that when the time comes to graduate and prepare for college or whatever lies next for each one of us, that we will be able to hold our heads high and proudly say we were South Lakes Seahawks!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: September 09, 2007 09:46PM
brevity is the soul to wit mi'lady
however. bon mot.
however. bon mot.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: September 09, 2007 10:44PM
Stephanie, you are much wiser than the supposed adults around here.
GO SEAHAWKS!
GO SEAHAWKS!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: September 09, 2007 11:57PM
haha stephanie just wrote a college admissions essay.
oh yeah i need tomorrows trig hw
oh yeah i need tomorrows trig hw
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: September 10, 2007 04:53AM
Good for you, Stephanie! You and your parents have every right to be extremely proud of your achievements. It is extremely pleasing to me to read such an intelligent and well-presented discussion. I hope that Tyrone (see above) is one of your scholastic peers. I wish you every success on your journey.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VaDriver
()
Date: September 10, 2007 08:48AM
"NCLB was authored and sponsored by Senator Edward Kennedy, a Democrat. Bush may have supported and signed it"
Well...well....the Dems are quite good at disinformation....big surprise.....and to think...all the complaints I've heard from FCPS Teachers blaming Pres Bush for NCLB. So...this is rather like Dave Albo's (R) Driver Abuser fee bill which was signed by Gov Kaine (D). And to think...all this time I've been blaming Albo! Hmmmm....
Say no to Busing......and this is pure business..I don't want to donate $50,000 in property value. I already give to United way.
Well...well....the Dems are quite good at disinformation....big surprise.....and to think...all the complaints I've heard from FCPS Teachers blaming Pres Bush for NCLB. So...this is rather like Dave Albo's (R) Driver Abuser fee bill which was signed by Gov Kaine (D). And to think...all this time I've been blaming Albo! Hmmmm....
Say no to Busing......and this is pure business..I don't want to donate $50,000 in property value. I already give to United way.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
OhReally?
()
Date: September 11, 2007 12:04PM
VaDriver makes good points.
People with children buy homes largely based on the reputation and performance of the public schools. Houses in the better districts will have a higher value. I am currently considering a move to Fairfax but will wait until this busing issue has been resolved.
Unlike the Kennedy types, who have alot to say about public education but have never stepped foot inside a public school, I can't afford to send my children to private schools.
People with children buy homes largely based on the reputation and performance of the public schools. Houses in the better districts will have a higher value. I am currently considering a move to Fairfax but will wait until this busing issue has been resolved.
Unlike the Kennedy types, who have alot to say about public education but have never stepped foot inside a public school, I can't afford to send my children to private schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
OhReally
()
Date: September 11, 2007 09:22PM
Hi again.
I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent who could honestly guide me through the murky waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need a straight shooter, not someone speaking the newspeak language of political correctness. I want to buy a house in an area with schools that already have a good record of success, not a school in the middle of an experiment.
I don't want to hear words like....diversity, multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard all that before and, usually, unless you are discussing an expensive international prep school, those are code words for, bad school.
I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going to relocate, I would need good guidance.
Thankyou
I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent who could honestly guide me through the murky waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need a straight shooter, not someone speaking the newspeak language of political correctness. I want to buy a house in an area with schools that already have a good record of success, not a school in the middle of an experiment.
I don't want to hear words like....diversity, multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard all that before and, usually, unless you are discussing an expensive international prep school, those are code words for, bad school.
I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going to relocate, I would need good guidance.
Thankyou
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Reality
()
Date: September 12, 2007 07:04AM
All these posts have been really amusing. It doesn't matter what school it is, all of them have the 'segregation' thing going on. It's typical suburbia high school behavior. And ALL of them have gangs and drugs and all the other things parents try to shield their kids from.
Yes, some schools have more than others but none of them are all that bad and if your kid doesn't bother with the gangs and the drugs they usually won't bother with your kid.
As for your property value 'plummeting', how the hell do you know? You don't. There are plenty of million dollar homes in the South Lakes district, according to the county tax assessment records. And your house's value is going to plummet no matter what district you are in because the housing prices had soared to overinflated prices that were not realistic. Kind of like the Dot.com boom where companies were paying idiots who knew nothing 100K even though the company hadn't made any money yet.
Now if you are driving past one school to go to another and it's not because of a special program, that's stupid. Redistricting is definitely in order.
Yes, some schools have more than others but none of them are all that bad and if your kid doesn't bother with the gangs and the drugs they usually won't bother with your kid.
As for your property value 'plummeting', how the hell do you know? You don't. There are plenty of million dollar homes in the South Lakes district, according to the county tax assessment records. And your house's value is going to plummet no matter what district you are in because the housing prices had soared to overinflated prices that were not realistic. Kind of like the Dot.com boom where companies were paying idiots who knew nothing 100K even though the company hadn't made any money yet.
Now if you are driving past one school to go to another and it's not because of a special program, that's stupid. Redistricting is definitely in order.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BottomLine
()
Date: September 12, 2007 08:00AM
According to the Farifax County projections all enrollment is going down not up, there is an aging population and there is no where else to build. Over crowding is not an issue, schools are not over crowded. Those that are slighlty over capacity are going down in the next two years. The problem solves itself.
Message to School Board - go find something constructive to do or you will be out of a job this November.
Message to School Board - go find something constructive to do or you will be out of a job this November.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
don't treadonme
()
Date: September 12, 2007 10:23AM
I have no doubt there are many million dollar homes in the South Lakes District. Now,move that home to another "pyramid" and see what it's worth.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
don't tread on me
()
Date: September 12, 2007 10:51AM
Expanding on the above thought.
It also won't matter what the current market is. It's all relative.
It also won't matter what the current market is. It's all relative.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
don't tread on me
()
Date: September 12, 2007 11:03AM
OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the moment.
South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in the end, I see that the Reston residents who attend Langley have also been moved to South Lakes.
Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston residents FIRST!
South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in the end, I see that the Reston residents who attend Langley have also been moved to South Lakes.
Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston residents FIRST!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
70chip
()
Date: September 12, 2007 01:07PM
OhReally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi again.
>
> I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent
> who could honestly guide me through the murky
> waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need
> a straight shooter, not someone speaking the
> newspeak language of political correctness. I want
> to buy a house in an area with schools that
> already have a good record of success, not a
> school in the middle of an experiment.
>
> I don't want to hear words like....diversity,
> multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard
> all that before and, usually, unless you are
> discussing an expensive international prep school,
> those are code words for, bad school.
>
> I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I
> apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going
> to relocate, I would need good guidance.
>
> Thankyou
Tell them in plain direct terms, that you want to live in a neighborhood with whites and asians and a school district that reflects the same. Some of them will tell you that it goes against their policies.. thats when you walk across the street to the next broker. believe me, one of them will quickly step up and deliver.. worked for me.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi again.
>
> I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent
> who could honestly guide me through the murky
> waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need
> a straight shooter, not someone speaking the
> newspeak language of political correctness. I want
> to buy a house in an area with schools that
> already have a good record of success, not a
> school in the middle of an experiment.
>
> I don't want to hear words like....diversity,
> multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard
> all that before and, usually, unless you are
> discussing an expensive international prep school,
> those are code words for, bad school.
>
> I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I
> apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going
> to relocate, I would need good guidance.
>
> Thankyou
Tell them in plain direct terms, that you want to live in a neighborhood with whites and asians and a school district that reflects the same. Some of them will tell you that it goes against their policies.. thats when you walk across the street to the next broker. believe me, one of them will quickly step up and deliver.. worked for me.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Tyrone
()
Date: September 12, 2007 01:09PM
don't tread on me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!
I wants to get me somes of those vanilla Langely bitches. Awwww, yeaahhh!
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!
I wants to get me somes of those vanilla Langely bitches. Awwww, yeaahhh!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
m
()
Date: September 13, 2007 05:37PM
School board,
Get ready for major law suits... parents who pay to live in expensive Chantilly, Oakton areas are NOT GOING TO LET YOU SHOVE SOUTH LAKES down our throats without a fight.
If we wanted our children to go there, we would have moved to that district. Look at something important.... the attendance is lower there and the other schools are overcrowded why??? BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO GO THERE..
Build a new school in the middle of all of these schools and make sure that kids from the same neighborhood remain together in a school with the same people they live with and around. We live here because we want our kids to go to Chantilly...
You had better be ready to write checks to all those people whos equity goes out the window if you are stupid enough to try to push this.
We as parents are not going to put up with this being forced on us.
See you in court!
Get ready for major law suits... parents who pay to live in expensive Chantilly, Oakton areas are NOT GOING TO LET YOU SHOVE SOUTH LAKES down our throats without a fight.
If we wanted our children to go there, we would have moved to that district. Look at something important.... the attendance is lower there and the other schools are overcrowded why??? BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO GO THERE..
Build a new school in the middle of all of these schools and make sure that kids from the same neighborhood remain together in a school with the same people they live with and around. We live here because we want our kids to go to Chantilly...
You had better be ready to write checks to all those people whos equity goes out the window if you are stupid enough to try to push this.
We as parents are not going to put up with this being forced on us.
See you in court!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: September 13, 2007 06:32PM
. . .
that was interesting. . .
was not expecting that at all . .
I wonder if this is dejavu circa 1960s
that was interesting. . .
was not expecting that at all . .
I wonder if this is dejavu circa 1960s
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
vote them out
()
Date: September 13, 2007 09:11PM
School board is up for election this year. What are these candidates position on redistricting.
There will be a lot of support for someone who comes out against it.
Hunter Mill - Stuart Gibson (Incumbent) v Christine Arakelian (Gibson is definetly for putting more kids in South Laakes, how bout you Christine????
Sully - Kathy Smith (Incumbant) v John Litzenberger (Smith is very non-committal, we all know what that means, how bout you John????
How bout the at-large seats.... anybody know if we can count on these people???
Christian Braunlich
Ralph Cooper
Paul Costantino
Tina Hone
Steve Hunt
Ilryong Moon
James Raney
Christopher Volkstorf
There will be a lot of support for someone who comes out against it.
Hunter Mill - Stuart Gibson (Incumbent) v Christine Arakelian (Gibson is definetly for putting more kids in South Laakes, how bout you Christine????
Sully - Kathy Smith (Incumbant) v John Litzenberger (Smith is very non-committal, we all know what that means, how bout you John????
How bout the at-large seats.... anybody know if we can count on these people???
Christian Braunlich
Ralph Cooper
Paul Costantino
Tina Hone
Steve Hunt
Ilryong Moon
James Raney
Christopher Volkstorf
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 15, 2007 02:56AM
I would trust Steve Hunt and Chris Braunlich. They listen to people.
No student who goes to Langley will be redistricted. Langley is the most over crowded school but immune from boundary changes.
Why not just close South Lakes? Within 4 years ALL South Lakes kids can be absorbed into the other schools with no over crowding. South Lakes tried IB to keep kids, it didn't work. Nothing works. Population keeps going down. So close it and move on.
No student who goes to Langley will be redistricted. Langley is the most over crowded school but immune from boundary changes.
Why not just close South Lakes? Within 4 years ALL South Lakes kids can be absorbed into the other schools with no over crowding. South Lakes tried IB to keep kids, it didn't work. Nothing works. Population keeps going down. So close it and move on.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
neen
()
Date: September 15, 2007 03:20AM
If you want to compare everything, go to the state websites. You will quickly see that South lakes does have more violence, more assaults on teachers, more weapons, and more drugs, than Oakton, despite the fact that Oakton has 2200 students and South Lakes has 1300. You will also find differences in SOL and SAT scores.
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/index.
Yes, parents who want their kids going to college do not want him sitting a class with an acting out hip hopper who has no interest in anything other than disrupting the class. It's not about race, it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much more likely to be in a class with disruptive students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or Madison.
I won't even get to how many families will be screwed by this redistricting, how much money they will lose through no fault of their own. They should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.
The only school in the area that is severely overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/index.
Yes, parents who want their kids going to college do not want him sitting a class with an acting out hip hopper who has no interest in anything other than disrupting the class. It's not about race, it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much more likely to be in a class with disruptive students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or Madison.
I won't even get to how many families will be screwed by this redistricting, how much money they will lose through no fault of their own. They should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.
The only school in the area that is severely overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VOTE FOR LITZENBERGER
()
Date: September 18, 2007 10:25AM
Sully District - VOTE FOR JOHN LITZENBERGER
John Litzenberer's position on redistricting...
Boundary Changes (from his web site http://www.coachlitz.com/issues.shtml#safety)
Boundary changes are one of the most contentious and polarizing processes a school system has to go through. My position is that the parents who have their children in the school system, plus pay the taxes that help fund the school system, must have the largest say in how the boundaries are realigned. The whole process, from the compiling of statistics, to determining costs and to finally presenting a proposal MUST be totally transparent. This not only is the fairest way to approach this problem, but the only way.
When the current school board voted to delay any discussion or release of data until after the Fall 2007 election, it flunked the transparency test. This created distrust, anxiety and overall concern that the boundary process was rigged in advance. When I asked Mr. Jack Dale, School Superintendent, about the delay at a Strategic Governance forum, several incumbents jumped all over me for asking the question. They then cut me off before Mr. Dale had an opportunity to answer. Consequently, I feel the boundary process as it stands today appears to be unfair.
As a point of reference, when my second daughter was in school, she went to a different school every year for five years in a row between fourth and eight grades. It was during this period that I organized the parents, came up with our own plan, and went to the school board and then the county board of supervisors to present a more reasonable plan. The parents’ plan was the one ultimately adopted. I think this type of tried and proven technique is the best approach to a boundary issue.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: September 19, 2007 08:21PM
don't tread on me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!
I found this real estate listing in Reston.
"Charming home with wraparound deck, cozy fireplaces, Langley High School. Must see!"
Interestingly, the other RE listings for Reston never mention South Lakes or Herndon Highs.
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!
I found this real estate listing in Reston.
"Charming home with wraparound deck, cozy fireplaces, Langley High School. Must see!"
Interestingly, the other RE listings for Reston never mention South Lakes or Herndon Highs.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: September 19, 2007 08:25PM
neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to compare everything, go to the state
> websites. You will quickly see that South lakes
> does have more violence, more assaults on
> teachers, more weapons, and more drugs, than
> Oakton, despite the fact that Oakton has 2200
> students and South Lakes has 1300. You will also
> find differences in SOL and SAT scores.
> http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/index.
>
> Yes, parents who want their kids going to college
> do not want him sitting a class with an acting out
> hip hopper who has no interest in anything other
> than disrupting the class. It's not about race,
> it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and
> SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much
> more likely to be in a class with disruptive
> students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or
> Madison.
>
> I won't even get to how many families will be
> screwed by this redistricting, how much money they
> will lose through no fault of their own. They
> should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of
> the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that
> are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.
>
> The only school in the area that is severely
> overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school
> will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many
> thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be
> closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.
My guess is that if students who should be attending South Lakes but are attending the "elite high schools," the test scores would increase and the % of violence would decrease.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to compare everything, go to the state
> websites. You will quickly see that South lakes
> does have more violence, more assaults on
> teachers, more weapons, and more drugs, than
> Oakton, despite the fact that Oakton has 2200
> students and South Lakes has 1300. You will also
> find differences in SOL and SAT scores.
> http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/index.
>
> Yes, parents who want their kids going to college
> do not want him sitting a class with an acting out
> hip hopper who has no interest in anything other
> than disrupting the class. It's not about race,
> it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and
> SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much
> more likely to be in a class with disruptive
> students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or
> Madison.
>
> I won't even get to how many families will be
> screwed by this redistricting, how much money they
> will lose through no fault of their own. They
> should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of
> the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that
> are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.
>
> The only school in the area that is severely
> overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school
> will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many
> thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be
> closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.
My guess is that if students who should be attending South Lakes but are attending the "elite high schools," the test scores would increase and the % of violence would decrease.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: September 19, 2007 10:55PM
Get the word out...
If you are in the Hunter Mill District and against this redistricting vote for Christine Arakelian.
Stu Gibson will definetely suck you into the mess at South Lakes.
If you are in the Hunter Mill District and against this redistricting vote for Christine Arakelian.
Stu Gibson will definetely suck you into the mess at South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 20, 2007 03:29AM
>>>My guess is that if students who should be attending South Lakes but are attending the "elite high schools," the test scores would increase and the % of violence would decrease.<<<<
Who is it that SHOULD be attending South Lakes? Madison students? Herndon? Not exactly elites.
No Langley students get sent to South Lakes. Ever. Period. Not gonna happen.
Yes, when they make more well off kids go to South Lakes, test scores will go up but less they are kicking out the bad kids, violence and drugs won't decrease, they'll just have a larger pool of targets and customers. So, whose kids get sacrificed to bring up the scores?
I agree with the others, if you want your voice to be heard, vote for JOHN LITZENBERGER in Sully, and Christine Arakelian in Hunter Mill. Also, Don't forget Steve Hunt, at large candidate who listens to parents.
Who is it that SHOULD be attending South Lakes? Madison students? Herndon? Not exactly elites.
No Langley students get sent to South Lakes. Ever. Period. Not gonna happen.
Yes, when they make more well off kids go to South Lakes, test scores will go up but less they are kicking out the bad kids, violence and drugs won't decrease, they'll just have a larger pool of targets and customers. So, whose kids get sacrificed to bring up the scores?
I agree with the others, if you want your voice to be heard, vote for JOHN LITZENBERGER in Sully, and Christine Arakelian in Hunter Mill. Also, Don't forget Steve Hunt, at large candidate who listens to parents.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 20, 2007 03:32AM
Gerry,
You are so right. No real estate agent would advertise that a home was located in South Lakes school district.
You are so right. No real estate agent would advertise that a home was located in South Lakes school district.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Brian
()
Date: September 21, 2007 03:30AM
the sad part of this thread is that people like neen and capys have never attended south lakes. "suck you into the mess?" excuse me? are you serious?
i just think its funny that so many of my friends at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes it.
if your kid is bright, he will be in with other students of similar mental capacity. put him in the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in college will tell you that the ib program prepared them better for college than their ap-taking counterparts. (and how can you even say that students at south lakes are more disruptive? people need to stop speculating about "what probably is" versus fact)
i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of adequately presenting arguments against going to south lakes and doesnt throw around tired, re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like www.keepoakton.org
i just think its funny that so many of my friends at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes it.
if your kid is bright, he will be in with other students of similar mental capacity. put him in the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in college will tell you that the ib program prepared them better for college than their ap-taking counterparts. (and how can you even say that students at south lakes are more disruptive? people need to stop speculating about "what probably is" versus fact)
i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of adequately presenting arguments against going to south lakes and doesnt throw around tired, re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like www.keepoakton.org
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
plj
()
Date: September 21, 2007 12:52PM
Why is the enrollment at south lakes going down so dramatically, while enrollment at neighboring schools are not?
Could it be that families with school age children are not moving into the Reston area because of the schools?
The facts are indisputable. When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):
1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests
2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations
3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores
4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges
Fairfax County Public Schools make all of these numbers public on its web site.
Could it be that families with school age children are not moving into the Reston area because of the schools?
The facts are indisputable. When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):
1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests
2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations
3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores
4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges
Fairfax County Public Schools make all of these numbers public on its web site.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
;
()
Date: September 21, 2007 01:25PM
5) South Lakes has more minorities that new students might get exposed to.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: September 21, 2007 02:33PM
Everyone here just redefines what it means to beat a dead horse.
If this is the bigoted and elitist attitude you raise your children with
fine. we wouldn't want your 'kind' to be with our kind community of South Lakes
I have nothing against your kids. In fact. they continue to have an open invitation to come to South Lakes. redistricting or not.
I just feel sorry for them.
that they have to live in such a close minded environment.
If this is the bigoted and elitist attitude you raise your children with
fine. we wouldn't want your 'kind' to be with our kind community of South Lakes
I have nothing against your kids. In fact. they continue to have an open invitation to come to South Lakes. redistricting or not.
I just feel sorry for them.
that they have to live in such a close minded environment.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
;
()
Date: September 21, 2007 02:42PM
Zen, well said. They can hide behind whatever they choose, but everyone (including those that will be redistricted) really knows what it is about. For what it is worth, when FFX hires teachers, do you really think that they take the worst ones and put them in South Lakes? No, your child will recieve the same education at any school, what they might not recieve is the same home life.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: September 21, 2007 08:49PM
Brian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the sad part of this thread is that people like
> neen and capys have never attended south lakes.
> "suck you into the mess?" excuse me? are you
> serious?
>
> i just think its funny that so many of my friends
> at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and
> honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes
> it.
>
> if your kid is bright, he will be in with other
> students of similar mental capacity. put him in
> the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in
> college will tell you that the ib program prepared
> them better for college than their ap-taking
> counterparts. (and how can you even say that
> students at south lakes are more disruptive?
> people need to stop speculating about "what
> probably is" versus fact)
>
> i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of
> adequately presenting arguments against going to
> south lakes and doesnt throw around tired,
> re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like
> www.keepoakton.org
Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high school they end up attending. The parents are the ones hung up on the property value and status thing.
On the keepoakton.org website, the real eye opener is the high school boundary link. It's evident that the past school board(s) screwed everything up! The board must have been very accommodating to the various neighborhoods. How does the board explain Madison and McLean boundaries leap frogging over certain South Lakes and Marshall neighborhoods?
The real laugher is the Langley boundary. That boundary is practically 20 percent of the county! Why not close all other high schools and have everyone in the County attend Langley.
In the end, we taxpayers are paying for the school board's lack of prudent decision making. While other high schools are under capacity, a new wing is being built at Langley and an elementary school was built in order to accommodate the influx of students to the Langley pyramid. In reality, they should be attending high school pyramids much closer.
-------------------------------------------------------
> the sad part of this thread is that people like
> neen and capys have never attended south lakes.
> "suck you into the mess?" excuse me? are you
> serious?
>
> i just think its funny that so many of my friends
> at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and
> honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes
> it.
>
> if your kid is bright, he will be in with other
> students of similar mental capacity. put him in
> the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in
> college will tell you that the ib program prepared
> them better for college than their ap-taking
> counterparts. (and how can you even say that
> students at south lakes are more disruptive?
> people need to stop speculating about "what
> probably is" versus fact)
>
> i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of
> adequately presenting arguments against going to
> south lakes and doesnt throw around tired,
> re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like
> www.keepoakton.org
Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high school they end up attending. The parents are the ones hung up on the property value and status thing.
On the keepoakton.org website, the real eye opener is the high school boundary link. It's evident that the past school board(s) screwed everything up! The board must have been very accommodating to the various neighborhoods. How does the board explain Madison and McLean boundaries leap frogging over certain South Lakes and Marshall neighborhoods?
The real laugher is the Langley boundary. That boundary is practically 20 percent of the county! Why not close all other high schools and have everyone in the County attend Langley.
In the end, we taxpayers are paying for the school board's lack of prudent decision making. While other high schools are under capacity, a new wing is being built at Langley and an elementary school was built in order to accommodate the influx of students to the Langley pyramid. In reality, they should be attending high school pyramids much closer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: September 21, 2007 08:59PM
> Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high school they end up attending.
In academic circles, this is known as the Stockholm Syndrome.
In academic circles, this is known as the Stockholm Syndrome.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VaDriver
()
Date: September 22, 2007 12:05PM
This whole issue has a hell of alot more to do with property values. If redistricting occurs and South Lakes is the High School for my neighborhood, house values will plummet. My African American neighbors will be sharing in the loss as well. As I said in an earlier post, I give to United Way.. That's it. Giving to the redistricting "cause", "agenda", "experiment", etc. would be another huge donation which isn't even tax deductable.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: September 22, 2007 04:41PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high
> school they end up attending.
>
> In academic circles, this is known as the
> Stockholm Syndrome.
In academic circles we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Entertain a thought with me. if you can go so as far as thinking for a moment with out ignorantly judging the world.
Why does South Lakes have such a bad public reputation?
Haven't you heard? the Band made is ranked nationally. The JROTC battalion is one the more decorated units in the United States like it's sister units in the county. they consistently send students to the Ivy Leagues and the Service Academies.
Why is it that you must pick on this school so much?
If we just cut down on this rather cynical pablum. maybe South Lakes image would more accurately reflect how much of a good school it is.
Does this make sense?
or am I being drowned out by the noise your ego makes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high
> school they end up attending.
>
> In academic circles, this is known as the
> Stockholm Syndrome.
In academic circles we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Entertain a thought with me. if you can go so as far as thinking for a moment with out ignorantly judging the world.
Why does South Lakes have such a bad public reputation?
Haven't you heard? the Band made is ranked nationally. The JROTC battalion is one the more decorated units in the United States like it's sister units in the county. they consistently send students to the Ivy Leagues and the Service Academies.
Why is it that you must pick on this school so much?
If we just cut down on this rather cynical pablum. maybe South Lakes image would more accurately reflect how much of a good school it is.
Does this make sense?
or am I being drowned out by the noise your ego makes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: September 22, 2007 06:28PM
> Why does South Lakes have such a bad reputation?
see post by plj above
see post by plj above
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: September 22, 2007 09:17PM
How dare you even try pushing numbers in my face?
the four seconds you took to copy and paste those numbers on your screen
does not replace the four years I spent at that school
do you think I would have bothered arguing with you folks this long if I haven't heard that already?
Try again.
the four seconds you took to copy and paste those numbers on your screen
does not replace the four years I spent at that school
do you think I would have bothered arguing with you folks this long if I haven't heard that already?
Try again.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Elizabeth
()
Date: September 23, 2007 09:42AM
Oakton's band is stronger? Yet SLs band has been winning 1st places at Nationals.....We got some strong stuff going on. Our theatre program keeps getting nominations and winning Cappies, basically all of our performing arts are AMAZING including all musics, step team, dance team, and competitive theatre. So if you're worried about extra-curriculars, think again. Our art students (all different races - mind you) are going to paint murals around the school again too. And you've probably never even BEEN to south lakes to see the origingal murals before we renovated. They were breathtaking.
You all dont want to go to south lakes because of the diversity and you're trying to find every excuse other than that. but it really just boils down to its higher hispanic and black populations. Gangs??? Don't make me laugh. "Gangs" around south lakes are really just wanna-be gangs who take the top bolt out of signs and then think theyre so bad......very dangerous I know. Anything else that others say is just to get attention. There is nowhere in Reston where I dont feel safe.
Honestly, if you're worried about gangs or your child being abused in any way by other students, I have to say that I'm a 16 year old, 6 foot tall, white, female, student at South Lakes and I feel perfectly safe and comfortable. My classes are great, the administration is wonderful and I have to say that I absolutely love South Lakes and would regret going anywhere else because I know that if I did, I would end up being one of those "daddy bought me a new lexus" girls who get nervous if any person of another race were even in the same room as them. And to all of you who are scared of diversity, this is America folks. Not all of us are just rich white people here and you all need to learn that.
You all dont want to go to south lakes because of the diversity and you're trying to find every excuse other than that. but it really just boils down to its higher hispanic and black populations. Gangs??? Don't make me laugh. "Gangs" around south lakes are really just wanna-be gangs who take the top bolt out of signs and then think theyre so bad......very dangerous I know. Anything else that others say is just to get attention. There is nowhere in Reston where I dont feel safe.
Honestly, if you're worried about gangs or your child being abused in any way by other students, I have to say that I'm a 16 year old, 6 foot tall, white, female, student at South Lakes and I feel perfectly safe and comfortable. My classes are great, the administration is wonderful and I have to say that I absolutely love South Lakes and would regret going anywhere else because I know that if I did, I would end up being one of those "daddy bought me a new lexus" girls who get nervous if any person of another race were even in the same room as them. And to all of you who are scared of diversity, this is America folks. Not all of us are just rich white people here and you all need to learn that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: September 23, 2007 10:36AM
That philosophy should get you an A, but not from your English teacher. You must be hard to spot at 16-years old, Caucasian, and 6-feet tall :-) With all the natural art talent, your school should be the county's art/music magnet school. I'm just not sure where I could park my Lexus there. Best wishes on your SOLs and AP courses!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: September 23, 2007 12:15PM
Cappies = Crappies
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
ming
()
Date: September 23, 2007 05:04PM
Why don't everybody stay at their own school. everybody like their school. it's ok way it is.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 24, 2007 12:58AM
Yes, since none of these schools are over crowded, and some will be under enrolled within 4 years, why redistrict anyone? Leave them where they are.
If there is a problem at South Lakes, then FCPS needs to fix it. They need to make South Lakes a school that attracts students. But they shouldn't fix their problem by forcing students out of their high schools and into South Lakes.
If there is a problem at South Lakes, then FCPS needs to fix it. They need to make South Lakes a school that attracts students. But they shouldn't fix their problem by forcing students out of their high schools and into South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 24, 2007 01:06AM
Elizabeth, it is you who sound like a bigot, prejudice against people who have more money than you have.
You might want to compare the schools we're discussing here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
Compare South Lakes to the schools that are being forced to go, Madison, Oakton, and Herndon.
Yes, there is more violence at South Lakes, more drugs, more teacher assaults, lower scores, etc. It has nothing to do with race. No one has any problem with well behaved students of any race. I suspect that you know that. It's not about race, it's about behavior. duh.
I'm glad that you feel safe, but some at your school haven't been so lucky.
You might want to compare the schools we're discussing here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
Compare South Lakes to the schools that are being forced to go, Madison, Oakton, and Herndon.
Yes, there is more violence at South Lakes, more drugs, more teacher assaults, lower scores, etc. It has nothing to do with race. No one has any problem with well behaved students of any race. I suspect that you know that. It's not about race, it's about behavior. duh.
I'm glad that you feel safe, but some at your school haven't been so lucky.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: September 24, 2007 08:03AM
ming,
Not funny.
Of any minority group in Fairfax County, Asian-Americans standout for their dedication to learning and education. One has only to read the end-of-year announcements of the top-ranked students and the premier colleges that the Asian-Americans attend.
Your racial baiting sounds like a personal problem of a less talented student. And if you are attempting to personify Hispanic students, that ain't funny either.
Not funny.
Of any minority group in Fairfax County, Asian-Americans standout for their dedication to learning and education. One has only to read the end-of-year announcements of the top-ranked students and the premier colleges that the Asian-Americans attend.
Your racial baiting sounds like a personal problem of a less talented student. And if you are attempting to personify Hispanic students, that ain't funny either.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
rob
()
Date: September 24, 2007 11:44PM
theres a girl at my school (langley) who got expelled for coke and weed and got sent to south lakes and apparently she really liked it. she came back because all her friends are here, but i guess her enjoying it says a lot about a school. shes a bitch, straight up.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: September 25, 2007 12:37PM
Gibson and Strauss are costing us all a lot of money by their ridiculous Langley boundary. People in Great Falls should get also be included - th Holly Knoll section used to go to Herndon? Are they bussing kids to Langley tht would not even be transported by FCPS to Herndon? Wiehle has it's extension now. What about the development that opens up onto 7 and Hunter Mill that is going to Langley? That is betwen the South Lakes sending area and the Madison Island. It's all BS and I guess Strauss and Gibson sold their votes on bulding the unneeded South County Middle School to keep these people happy. It's a scam to buld an addition at Langley. South Lkaes had a bad principal - now it is one of the few schools with a good one. The South Lkaes stigma has ben perpetuated by Gibson and Strauss for a decade and they are pepetuating it by not including Langley now.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
fairfaxresident20191
()
Date: September 25, 2007 12:42PM
To all those interested:
It is appalling that some on this forum speak about South Lakes as if it is a troubled inner-city school. South Lakes is among the top 2% of high schools in the country and maintains very strong academic and extra-curricular programs.
For those that aren't aware, South Lakes has less than a year left on a $50 million renovation and is lead by the 2006 principal of the year, Bruce Butler. Please take the time to watch the below video. This is a link to a profile on Bruce Butler. The "elite" high schools would be lucky to have a principal who cares as much or works as hard.
http://www.fcps.edu/DIT/streaming/ss9_fypoybutler.asx
It is appalling that some on this forum speak about South Lakes as if it is a troubled inner-city school. South Lakes is among the top 2% of high schools in the country and maintains very strong academic and extra-curricular programs.
For those that aren't aware, South Lakes has less than a year left on a $50 million renovation and is lead by the 2006 principal of the year, Bruce Butler. Please take the time to watch the below video. This is a link to a profile on Bruce Butler. The "elite" high schools would be lucky to have a principal who cares as much or works as hard.
http://www.fcps.edu/DIT/streaming/ss9_fypoybutler.asx
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jimmy
()
Date: September 25, 2007 12:51PM
Great post, Mr. Butler!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
fairfaxresident20191
()
Date: September 25, 2007 01:22PM
Jimmy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great post, Mr. Butler!
Great rebuttal, Mr. Ignorant!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great post, Mr. Butler!
Great rebuttal, Mr. Ignorant!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jimmy
()
Date: September 25, 2007 01:42PM
incredible repartee, mr know-it-all!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
FarSide
()
Date: September 25, 2007 01:56PM
How about simply, that the west county area (particularily near the Frying Pan Park area) is tired of being shoved around to different schools every 2-3 years. How stupid is that? None of these neighborhoods are ever settled. the school board continues with the same story every time "if we just do this, then everything will get fixed." 3 years down the road we will hear the same thing from the same jerks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
rodney
()
Date: September 25, 2007 03:26PM
Well said FarSide.
I think all Fairfax County schools are good, and the kids going to them want to continue in their own school. Just leave everything the way it is,
And stop criticizing other peoples schools and hinting that people are racists.
It's good the way it is.
I think all Fairfax County schools are good, and the kids going to them want to continue in their own school. Just leave everything the way it is,
And stop criticizing other peoples schools and hinting that people are racists.
It's good the way it is.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
.....
()
Date: September 25, 2007 06:20PM
South County Middle School - They have a middle school too!?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: September 25, 2007 07:38PM
South County Middle School is the intended project of many running for or on the School Board. Some people expect everyone in this county to pay for the place on an expedited basis after money was spent on Lake Braddock. What stinks about the west County boundary change process is the absolute exclusion of Langley and it's addition is a slap in the face to every taxpayer except those who any rational person would send to South lakes or Herndon instead. Every board member who allowed this without question should be recalled or voted out. The majority of Gibson'and Strauss' constituents do not benefit and we all have to pay for this.
South Lakes has IB. At other IB schools kids are enrolled in and also taking AP exams. That includes Mount Vernon also a smaller school.
South Lakes has IB. At other IB schools kids are enrolled in and also taking AP exams. That includes Mount Vernon also a smaller school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: September 25, 2007 11:19PM
Look - there is a reason that South Lakes receives a 4 from the Great Schools website (out of 10) and Oakton and Madison receive an 8/9. South Lakes has significantly more problem students, both in terms of academic achievement and behavior. And it is not surprising that people are not clamoring to go to South Lakes. And bluntly put, the entire Fairfax County school system is overrated (except for Thomas Jefferson) - none of the high schools compares to the suburban Chicago high school I attended - which, like TJ, receives a 10 out of 10 Great Schools score. It was a local school - not a magnet - and the 4 or 5 other high schools that surround it were just as good. The town I lived in had a midwestern work ethic - so lacking in the entitlement culture prevalent here. The middle (yes, the middle) of the class went to schools like Wisconsin and Indiana and Michigan. Of course, my high school wasn't very diverse, either.
I must also say to the Reston/South Lakes supporters - there clearly are parts of Reston that are not very safe, and it is directly related to the kinds of people that live in the public housing there - and yes, unfortunately, there is a racial correlation. And it is reflected in the schools as well - although the best coping defense is to teach kids to avoid the hip hop rip-raff like the plague. I know this the old fashioned way - I drive a few miles to run on the trails in Reston - about 5 times a week. Run 7-10 miles in the community and you get to know it up close - and see a lot. And this is not a Reston bash - the trails are excellent - with no danger from vehicular traffic. And clearly, my experiences vary considerably based on where I run - I find it astounding the hassles I often get from young black males near the Reston community center area - the Snake Den trail to those who know - invariably drinking and just acting disrespectful. I say astounding, because when I was a serious athlete at the national level I ran mostly black dominated events - generally we were among the most disciplined and tough minded group of people - and find it laughable now that I get harassed because of my race and penchant for exercise - but make no mistake about it - the threat is there - which I feel somewhat in control over, because, while still in my mid-40's - I can really still move if I have to - and I have at times really ripped through the crowd to avoid trouble. And lest one think I am exaggerating, I have run all over the world - and in some really tough neighborhoods (Watts, thank you, outside the LA Coliseum, south Atlanta, DC, West Philly, slums in Paris etc.) and am pretty fairly tuned to dangerous characters - certain areas of Reston just put my antennae up. Fairfax County police officers I know concur with my sense of apprehension. While I certainly am cautious about prejudging anyone because of race and the like - let's not kid ourselves, there are problems at South Lakes and at Reston - and to be blunt - people move to the suburbs to relieve themselves of these problems (people of all races by the way) - the perceptions to a considerable extent are real. And Elizabeth - don't run on certain Reston trails alone - ever - this isn't my advice alone, but those of a number of professional level female runners that live in and near Reston - they are all too aware of the danger. I have volunteered to run with them on occasion for just this reason.
I must also say to the Reston/South Lakes supporters - there clearly are parts of Reston that are not very safe, and it is directly related to the kinds of people that live in the public housing there - and yes, unfortunately, there is a racial correlation. And it is reflected in the schools as well - although the best coping defense is to teach kids to avoid the hip hop rip-raff like the plague. I know this the old fashioned way - I drive a few miles to run on the trails in Reston - about 5 times a week. Run 7-10 miles in the community and you get to know it up close - and see a lot. And this is not a Reston bash - the trails are excellent - with no danger from vehicular traffic. And clearly, my experiences vary considerably based on where I run - I find it astounding the hassles I often get from young black males near the Reston community center area - the Snake Den trail to those who know - invariably drinking and just acting disrespectful. I say astounding, because when I was a serious athlete at the national level I ran mostly black dominated events - generally we were among the most disciplined and tough minded group of people - and find it laughable now that I get harassed because of my race and penchant for exercise - but make no mistake about it - the threat is there - which I feel somewhat in control over, because, while still in my mid-40's - I can really still move if I have to - and I have at times really ripped through the crowd to avoid trouble. And lest one think I am exaggerating, I have run all over the world - and in some really tough neighborhoods (Watts, thank you, outside the LA Coliseum, south Atlanta, DC, West Philly, slums in Paris etc.) and am pretty fairly tuned to dangerous characters - certain areas of Reston just put my antennae up. Fairfax County police officers I know concur with my sense of apprehension. While I certainly am cautious about prejudging anyone because of race and the like - let's not kid ourselves, there are problems at South Lakes and at Reston - and to be blunt - people move to the suburbs to relieve themselves of these problems (people of all races by the way) - the perceptions to a considerable extent are real. And Elizabeth - don't run on certain Reston trails alone - ever - this isn't my advice alone, but those of a number of professional level female runners that live in and near Reston - they are all too aware of the danger. I have volunteered to run with them on occasion for just this reason.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 26, 2007 01:55AM
Why is Langley high school always held safe from redistricting? Students can never be moved out (although they can be moved IN to Langley) so they are taken from the Loudoun county line all the way inside the beltway to attend Langley. Why is that? Anyone know? What makes them immune from redistricting?
And why is South County getting a middle school? It's not needed according to enrollments or enrollment projections. Is it?
And why is South County getting a middle school? It's not needed according to enrollments or enrollment projections. Is it?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
rodney
()
Date: September 26, 2007 07:30AM
Langley - because they have lost of money
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: September 26, 2007 07:57AM
rodney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley - because they have lost of money
The only people that want to pay for that are the ones that should be moved. Do the vast majority of people in Langley boundaries want this? NO. They are just as confused as evryone else. It uses bond money and money from the operating fund for stuff with shorter useful life. The county gives extra money to FCPS for the debt service. Because the Langley administrators allowed about 200 dump trucks of fill illegally dumped on the property [caught by Mclean Citizens Association] the addition was delayed and people were told the delay was a run-off situation. But nt why...thought it was just normal site issue not a boondoggle. The county decided not to fine FCPS or to hold the admins or contractor personally liable so the removal cost is coming out of the discretionary funds for the addition.
As for other issues, many people would like later start times or better bus arrival times. Cooper [on the way to Lngley] for many kids does not share busses.
Maybe the principal wants more kids because he gets a wider pool for the football team. Langley is an older unrenovated building - except for the lack of walls the old South Lakes was nicer. People would rather get the bathrooms done and basics handled just like people do in houses.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley - because they have lost of money
The only people that want to pay for that are the ones that should be moved. Do the vast majority of people in Langley boundaries want this? NO. They are just as confused as evryone else. It uses bond money and money from the operating fund for stuff with shorter useful life. The county gives extra money to FCPS for the debt service. Because the Langley administrators allowed about 200 dump trucks of fill illegally dumped on the property [caught by Mclean Citizens Association] the addition was delayed and people were told the delay was a run-off situation. But nt why...thought it was just normal site issue not a boondoggle. The county decided not to fine FCPS or to hold the admins or contractor personally liable so the removal cost is coming out of the discretionary funds for the addition.
As for other issues, many people would like later start times or better bus arrival times. Cooper [on the way to Lngley] for many kids does not share busses.
Maybe the principal wants more kids because he gets a wider pool for the football team. Langley is an older unrenovated building - except for the lack of walls the old South Lakes was nicer. People would rather get the bathrooms done and basics handled just like people do in houses.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: September 26, 2007 08:20AM
If you haven't read this posting, please do so:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: September 25, 2007 11:19PM
Not everyone is going to lack what quantum says; however, I think that it is the most truthful and revealing commentary on the real problems in this part of the county. Kudos to you, quantum, for your sincere and forthright comments.
The bottom line is that we have choice--perhaps not where we live or what school we attend. But we can choose to better ourselves and make do with what we have. Or, we can hangout with "gangs" or "losers." We all need to stop pointing fingers at others and look inwardly and repair.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: September 25, 2007 11:19PM
Not everyone is going to lack what quantum says; however, I think that it is the most truthful and revealing commentary on the real problems in this part of the county. Kudos to you, quantum, for your sincere and forthright comments.
The bottom line is that we have choice--perhaps not where we live or what school we attend. But we can choose to better ourselves and make do with what we have. Or, we can hangout with "gangs" or "losers." We all need to stop pointing fingers at others and look inwardly and repair.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: September 26, 2007 09:01AM
Let my clarify my perspective - I don't think it helpful to criticize the element of South Lakes High School that gives it its reputation (one can argue how deserved it may be) in a way that bespeaks of meanness. But by the same token, we also must speak to accountability - and in a blunt way that people are not accustomed to doing.
And let's be blunt when it comes to South Lakes. It is not just the increased (by a fair amount) incidents of student violence, truancy, drop out rate and the like that bother parents. These elements are verifiable and likely worst in the concrete than as reflected by statistics, for the simple fact that most high school systems do a far less than creditable job of tracking drop-outs - and the drop out rate is higher than credited. There are things that happen in South Lakes that just shake the sensibilities of suburban parents - who, let's face it, are by and large are on the mission - that is - the most important thing in their lives, is to educate their children to survive and prosper in a knowledge based economy. And suffice to say that the average single mother 8a housing recipient in the South Lakes area is, even if interested in the "mission", likely very limited in her ability to fulfill it - such are the constraints that questionable life choices and long hardened cultural impediments impose. In any event, what are the events that shake the sensibilities? Well, at Langston Hughes middle school a few years back (across the driveway from South Lakes), school authorities detained an 8th grader for pimping a stable of 8th grade girls - with his base of operations the bus and the schoolyard. And the boy and his charges and their "customers' were doing their best renditions of a gangsta rap video. at middle school prices too boot. Is this the school's fault? No - they acted in my view responsibly and quickly in dealing with the issue - but really, what parent wants their children exposed to this? It is common sense - work like crazy to afford a 600 hundred thousand dollar house in the burbs, and have your kids exposed to this? What kind of childhood is that? Put another way, what possible value is there for kids and their parents to move from Oakton to Madison and the like? There isn't any - it is almost a complete negative - except that it helps the school system hide the poor scores and discipline problems - as the Parents United Supreme Court case reflects - whites and asians are valuable commodities in the public school game and can paper over lots of problems. This last comment might raise the ire of some - really, now - think Seattle and Louisville went all the way to the Supreme Court for trivial reasons? no - their racial assignment plans are crucial to helping the administrators keep their jobs and avoid the consequence of having a few failing and dismal schools in their system.
I actually understand the school board's position here - if they don't rezone, the problems at South Lakes will only get worse - they know that their chances of undoing the cultural impediments and lack of appreciation for education in some of the South Lakes homes are limited at best, and transferring a whole slug (I believe Stu Gibson referred in a PTO meeting as an 'influx of well prepared students") is really the only practical way to reverse the decline. And they just spent a boatload of money on improvements at South Lakes - likely not needed wth declining enrollments the next 10 years. But let's be blunt - again - it is being done on the backs of the transferor parents and kids - without much to gain other than a mere badge of social sacrifice. I await this kind of honesty from the school board.
And let's be blunt when it comes to South Lakes. It is not just the increased (by a fair amount) incidents of student violence, truancy, drop out rate and the like that bother parents. These elements are verifiable and likely worst in the concrete than as reflected by statistics, for the simple fact that most high school systems do a far less than creditable job of tracking drop-outs - and the drop out rate is higher than credited. There are things that happen in South Lakes that just shake the sensibilities of suburban parents - who, let's face it, are by and large are on the mission - that is - the most important thing in their lives, is to educate their children to survive and prosper in a knowledge based economy. And suffice to say that the average single mother 8a housing recipient in the South Lakes area is, even if interested in the "mission", likely very limited in her ability to fulfill it - such are the constraints that questionable life choices and long hardened cultural impediments impose. In any event, what are the events that shake the sensibilities? Well, at Langston Hughes middle school a few years back (across the driveway from South Lakes), school authorities detained an 8th grader for pimping a stable of 8th grade girls - with his base of operations the bus and the schoolyard. And the boy and his charges and their "customers' were doing their best renditions of a gangsta rap video. at middle school prices too boot. Is this the school's fault? No - they acted in my view responsibly and quickly in dealing with the issue - but really, what parent wants their children exposed to this? It is common sense - work like crazy to afford a 600 hundred thousand dollar house in the burbs, and have your kids exposed to this? What kind of childhood is that? Put another way, what possible value is there for kids and their parents to move from Oakton to Madison and the like? There isn't any - it is almost a complete negative - except that it helps the school system hide the poor scores and discipline problems - as the Parents United Supreme Court case reflects - whites and asians are valuable commodities in the public school game and can paper over lots of problems. This last comment might raise the ire of some - really, now - think Seattle and Louisville went all the way to the Supreme Court for trivial reasons? no - their racial assignment plans are crucial to helping the administrators keep their jobs and avoid the consequence of having a few failing and dismal schools in their system.
I actually understand the school board's position here - if they don't rezone, the problems at South Lakes will only get worse - they know that their chances of undoing the cultural impediments and lack of appreciation for education in some of the South Lakes homes are limited at best, and transferring a whole slug (I believe Stu Gibson referred in a PTO meeting as an 'influx of well prepared students") is really the only practical way to reverse the decline. And they just spent a boatload of money on improvements at South Lakes - likely not needed wth declining enrollments the next 10 years. But let's be blunt - again - it is being done on the backs of the transferor parents and kids - without much to gain other than a mere badge of social sacrifice. I await this kind of honesty from the school board.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: September 26, 2007 07:38PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Langley high school always held safe from
> redistricting? Students can never be moved out
> (although they can be moved IN to Langley) so they
> are taken from the Loudoun county line all the way
> inside the beltway to attend Langley. Why is
> that? Anyone know? What makes them immune from
> redistricting?
>
> And why is South County getting a middle school?
> It's not needed according to enrollments or
> enrollment projections. Is it?
The school board knows that would be a nasty battle if they changed the Langley boundary. It's unjust that it's not included with the proposed changes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Langley high school always held safe from
> redistricting? Students can never be moved out
> (although they can be moved IN to Langley) so they
> are taken from the Loudoun county line all the way
> inside the beltway to attend Langley. Why is
> that? Anyone know? What makes them immune from
> redistricting?
>
> And why is South County getting a middle school?
> It's not needed according to enrollments or
> enrollment projections. Is it?
The school board knows that would be a nasty battle if they changed the Langley boundary. It's unjust that it's not included with the proposed changes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: September 26, 2007 09:58PM
Quantum.... brilliant post.
Thanks for nailing the issue perfectly.
The potential transfer population is 100% behind you.
Go the meetings and give em an earful.
Thanks for nailing the issue perfectly.
The potential transfer population is 100% behind you.
Go the meetings and give em an earful.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Brian
()
Date: September 27, 2007 12:03AM
props to quantum indeed. thanks for at least providing background information from experience instead of throwing out numbers or accusations.
that prostitution ring was in the late nineties, by the way.
for some reason though it does seem like there is a media bias against south lakes. last football season McLean players were suspended for a sex party at an open house. like... one big orgy.
a similar event occurred at another area school, though the name escapes me at the moment.
i also feel like some people don't give enough credit to certain aspects of our school. Every year the leadership program chooses a major fundraiser. Last year we raised over $25,000 for a student battling cancer. Our peer mentoring program is currently serving as a model to kickstart other programs at FCPS schools. Tuesday, West Potomac had a rep sit in on our meeting taking note of how it is run.
that prostitution ring was in the late nineties, by the way.
for some reason though it does seem like there is a media bias against south lakes. last football season McLean players were suspended for a sex party at an open house. like... one big orgy.
a similar event occurred at another area school, though the name escapes me at the moment.
i also feel like some people don't give enough credit to certain aspects of our school. Every year the leadership program chooses a major fundraiser. Last year we raised over $25,000 for a student battling cancer. Our peer mentoring program is currently serving as a model to kickstart other programs at FCPS schools. Tuesday, West Potomac had a rep sit in on our meeting taking note of how it is run.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 27, 2007 01:11AM
Why can't the school system put a program into South Lakes that will attract new students? That's what they did in Montgomery County and it worked. If they make it attractive, no one will be forced to go there.
Another alternative is to begin to close South Lakes. Within 4 years, all of the students can be absorbed by the other high schools, with no overcrowding. Look at the projected numbers, 4 years out, and you'll see it.
To those who mentioned that Langley has money and that makes it immune from redistricting, all the areas that will be redistricted into South Lakes also have money. The Madison 'island' is the home to at least one Congressman and many more wealthy people, including attornies. They will put up considerable opposition to this redistricting. As will Oakton parents and the well off folks in the Reston North End.
Buckle your seat belts,it's going to be a bumpy ride, after the election. Interesting that there will be NO discussion of the boundary changes until all the democrats have been re-elected.
Another alternative is to begin to close South Lakes. Within 4 years, all of the students can be absorbed by the other high schools, with no overcrowding. Look at the projected numbers, 4 years out, and you'll see it.
To those who mentioned that Langley has money and that makes it immune from redistricting, all the areas that will be redistricted into South Lakes also have money. The Madison 'island' is the home to at least one Congressman and many more wealthy people, including attornies. They will put up considerable opposition to this redistricting. As will Oakton parents and the well off folks in the Reston North End.
Buckle your seat belts,it's going to be a bumpy ride, after the election. Interesting that there will be NO discussion of the boundary changes until all the democrats have been re-elected.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
what to do?
()
Date: September 27, 2007 08:02AM
Jane Strauss will not permit a Langley High School Boundary change process. Same for Gibson. If any Aldrin people get moved into South Lakes then they should Domino Langley people into Herndon plus some to South Lakes. Everyone in the county is paying for this junk. Everyone at those boundary meetings should raise their hands in break-out rooms to support including Langley in this boundary process. Everyone in the process should email all board members ASAP.
It's a county-wide school division and behave in that fashion. If people got equal and fair treatment there would be no cause for complaint or justification for lawsuits. This is way too blatent...
It's a county-wide school division and behave in that fashion. If people got equal and fair treatment there would be no cause for complaint or justification for lawsuits. This is way too blatent...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: September 28, 2007 02:19AM
Why would Stu Gibson agree to not moving Langley students into South Lakes? It would benefit South Lakes, where his voters are. If he has made a deal with Janie Strauss to not touch Langley students, what does he get out of this deal?
Community meetings never change anything, but people should still let them know how unfair it is to never include Langley in any discussions of boundaries.
Community meetings never change anything, but people should still let them know how unfair it is to never include Langley in any discussions of boundaries.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: September 29, 2007 08:25AM
Especially for South Lakes, this school boundary argument reminds me of the "urban flight" (pc version) during the 60s, but this is Fairfax County's version.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Paul
()
Date: September 30, 2007 12:30AM
This post is a little off-topic from South Lakes and the proposed Western Redistricting but...
I live in the Alexandria portion of the Hayfield district and am frustrated at, as we all know, how this school is lackluster and how recent rezonings involving South County are not helping. Because the School Board did not base their projections for South County correctly in the first place, this rezoning only 2 years after SoCo has opened is ridiculous.
I want to voice my blunt complaint at how the School Board says they want to maintain socioeconomic balance and equality during rezonings, but don't. In the recent rezoning for 07-08, the majority of South County's few less desirable neighborhoods of Lorton (all within 5 min. of SoCo and 15 min. from Hayfield) were brought over to Hayfield, with the infamous Hagel Circle being the only obvious undesirable neighborhood left in South County's territory. It is a fact that most of Hayfield's troubled children always come from Lorton and not its immediately surrounding community of Alexandria. I personally believe that South County should serve and reflect the population of its own community, while Hayfield should do the same.
It is projected that Hayfield's F/R rate will increase and SoCo's will decrease. It seems that they're trying to destine Hayfield for failure and pad South County with more wealth while appeasing criticism with just keeping Hagel. FCPS politics as always.
I live in the Alexandria portion of the Hayfield district and am frustrated at, as we all know, how this school is lackluster and how recent rezonings involving South County are not helping. Because the School Board did not base their projections for South County correctly in the first place, this rezoning only 2 years after SoCo has opened is ridiculous.
I want to voice my blunt complaint at how the School Board says they want to maintain socioeconomic balance and equality during rezonings, but don't. In the recent rezoning for 07-08, the majority of South County's few less desirable neighborhoods of Lorton (all within 5 min. of SoCo and 15 min. from Hayfield) were brought over to Hayfield, with the infamous Hagel Circle being the only obvious undesirable neighborhood left in South County's territory. It is a fact that most of Hayfield's troubled children always come from Lorton and not its immediately surrounding community of Alexandria. I personally believe that South County should serve and reflect the population of its own community, while Hayfield should do the same.
It is projected that Hayfield's F/R rate will increase and SoCo's will decrease. It seems that they're trying to destine Hayfield for failure and pad South County with more wealth while appeasing criticism with just keeping Hagel. FCPS politics as always.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Paul
()
Date: September 30, 2007 12:33AM
I forgot to add, I don't think SoCo needs a middle school because Hayfield was sufficiently undercrowded when SoCo was overcrowded. Sufficient capacity does exist if balanced correctly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: September 30, 2007 08:55AM
Lake Braddock should be used for some of the Silverbrook South County nighborhoods. Braddock had millions in renovations as did Hayfield plus it got an addition. Hayfield should have it's own middle school GT Center. Why do we have to pay for GTC busses? The program is huge now - put them back at their own schools.
In each case nothing was done about GT which takes up space that should be HS2:MS1 in proportionality. 7/8,9/10/11,/12. I remember when they opened Lorton Station yet continues bussing Hagel Circle to Halley so people who don't need resources would still get stuff at Halley.
In each case nothing was done about GT which takes up space that should be HS2:MS1 in proportionality. 7/8,9/10/11,/12. I remember when they opened Lorton Station yet continues bussing Hagel Circle to Halley so people who don't need resources would still get stuff at Halley.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
blank
()
Date: October 01, 2007 01:11AM
Grant Hill went to SL. His mom gave the key note speech when I graduated from Robinson in 99' it was fucking retarded. Seriously though if you are that worried about where your kids go just pick a program that your dream school has that SL doesnt. Sign Language is a good one.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 01, 2007 02:56AM
Yes, FCPS has allowed students to go to other schools if the high school they attend doesn't offer the program or course that they want, as long as they can provide their own transportation. That helps people who can afford cars, but not the rest.I suspect that will end with South Lakes.
Yes, Hayfield got screwed on boundaries with South County. I don't know why the Hayfield school board rep agreed to it. It just made problems at Hayfield worse.
Yes, Hayfield got screwed on boundaries with South County. I don't know why the Hayfield school board rep agreed to it. It just made problems at Hayfield worse.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: October 01, 2007 01:41PM
South Lakes has sign language.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 01, 2007 03:31PM
Let's go back to basics. If you look at the Fairfax county map of affordable housing, you will find areas that have lots...and areas that have none. This is the basis for SL problem. Reston has been getting more than its fair share of affordable housing, as is Alexandria. Fairfax county has been unevenly placing affordable housing throughout the county, in effect creating the problems they now have with the unevenness in the school populations.
This should stop.
However, looking at the numbers, SL doesn't have more affordable housing than Westfields, for example. But Westfield has over 3000 kids, so that amount is more readily absorbed than at SL, with only 1300 kids.
What you people don't get is that SL numbers will look much better when the redistricting occurs, so housing values will not drop as feared. Really, stop whining.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 03:34PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
This should stop.
However, looking at the numbers, SL doesn't have more affordable housing than Westfields, for example. But Westfield has over 3000 kids, so that amount is more readily absorbed than at SL, with only 1300 kids.
What you people don't get is that SL numbers will look much better when the redistricting occurs, so housing values will not drop as feared. Really, stop whining.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 03:34PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 01, 2007 05:43PM
Reston is a planned community. You got what you asked for in terms of affordable housing.
You've made your bed, now lie in it.
You've made your bed, now lie in it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 01, 2007 11:57PM
True. The people of Reston decide how their community works. They've decided. They're stuck with it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 02, 2007 11:00AM
Long ago, I went to a much tougher high school than South Lakes High School (SLHS), and my high school was considered one of the better schools in the country. Since Bruce Butler became Principal, SLHS has significantly increased its pride, performance and reputation.....justifiably.
My two kids (one now in college; other at SLHS) have had great experiences, have friends from all racial, religious and ethnic backgrounds, and laugh at cousins and friends from nearby schools who act like SLHS kids should get a purple hearts for going there. One neighborhood family moved out of Reston to ensure that their kids would go to Oakton......their eldest got beaten up twice in the first month of school.....maybe it was the kid?
If the parents and the kids who end up at SLHS give it a fair shake and participate actively, they'll have a great experience. Who knows? Maybe those kids will be part of the '65% of students who applied to UVA who were offered admission; average for all FCPS high schools is 25% percent.', as happened to the '07 graduating class, or the notably high number of SLHS kids who are selected for the Service Academies.
In the meantime, please try not to whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine, up-and-coming school.
My two kids (one now in college; other at SLHS) have had great experiences, have friends from all racial, religious and ethnic backgrounds, and laugh at cousins and friends from nearby schools who act like SLHS kids should get a purple hearts for going there. One neighborhood family moved out of Reston to ensure that their kids would go to Oakton......their eldest got beaten up twice in the first month of school.....maybe it was the kid?
If the parents and the kids who end up at SLHS give it a fair shake and participate actively, they'll have a great experience. Who knows? Maybe those kids will be part of the '65% of students who applied to UVA who were offered admission; average for all FCPS high schools is 25% percent.', as happened to the '07 graduating class, or the notably high number of SLHS kids who are selected for the Service Academies.
In the meantime, please try not to whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine, up-and-coming school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: October 02, 2007 11:35AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True. The people of Reston decide how their
> community works. They've decided. They're stuck
> with it.
Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> True. The people of Reston decide how their
> community works. They've decided. They're stuck
> with it.
Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 02, 2007 11:35AM
SLHS Padre...
perhaps the Oakton people would appreciate if you did not whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine school
you freekin hypocrit
perhaps the Oakton people would appreciate if you did not whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine school
you freekin hypocrit
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 02, 2007 01:36PM
My Word!!??:
You have a thin skin for someone who tosses out barbs so effortlessly.
I didn't slam Oakton HS or its community, but noted that someone who fled rough-tough South Lakes/Reston still had a tough encounter. If it had been SLHS, it would have made the TV news, I bet.
My point is: don't flee or savage something before you take a fair and close look.
Affordable housing for everyone in Fairfax County, including teachers.
You have a thin skin for someone who tosses out barbs so effortlessly.
I didn't slam Oakton HS or its community, but noted that someone who fled rough-tough South Lakes/Reston still had a tough encounter. If it had been SLHS, it would have made the TV news, I bet.
My point is: don't flee or savage something before you take a fair and close look.
Affordable housing for everyone in Fairfax County, including teachers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 02, 2007 02:44PM
not thin skinned...
just like to point out the fact that SLHS whines about being criticized and then turns around and does the same to others.... hypocrits
just like to point out the fact that SLHS whines about being criticized and then turns around and does the same to others.... hypocrits
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 02, 2007 03:28PM
hypocrites is hypocrites...the criticism wasn't against Oakton (some of my best friends' kids go to Oakton). It was against behavior based on ignorance and fear, not reality. Word up.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 02, 2007 08:58PM
A child got beaten twice during the first month of school? Maybe it was the kid? Isn't that akin to saying to a rape victim that she shouldn't have been so attractive. Offensive when analogized this way, huh? And the analogy is hardly inapposite. You should rethink your statement.
Look, the statistics in terms of violence and other incidents at SLHS dwarf schools such as Oakton that are much larger and frankly not without problems themselves. And the incidents of violence by and large are committed by a very identifiable group. Sure, it helps if you train you kid to keep your head down and stay out of the way of trouble, but not every teenager is going to be able to develop those instincts and in such cases will be a far more likely target for the group of predators (not big, but significant) that exist at South Lakes. And don't get me wrong - from what I can see, the school does a Herculean job of trying to keep the peace. But make no mistake about, the behavior of a group of low income, mostly fatherless, conform largely to the existing stereotype kids causes a lot of problems, and while you may disagree with parents who want to avoid South Lakes, it is a stretch to state the parents not wishing their children to transfer to Oakton are irrational - they are not.
And to the point about the new influx of kids raising the tide - well, that will happen. But the dislocation and adjustment period is neither trivial or short. Yes, the school administrators obviously welcome the influx of white and asian kids that will obtain - they generally behave well, don't require teaching to the test in terms of SOL's and the like because they are bright and well prepared enough to learn such material incidentally, and they make the school's statistics, including parent participation, graduation, SAT scores and the like more desirable -- way more desirable. But there is a long adjustment period, and make no mistake about, the benefits that obtained by the school are accomplished on the backs of the transferors, who receive very little in return, unless, of course, one puts undue weight on the shibboleth of diversity, which frankly provides little empirical value. (And Oakton is plenty diverse, it just doesn't have as many blacks, which is the code word in any event for diversity). And don't take the teaching to the test issue likely - the non AP kids stuck in regular classes will be bored and will not prosper from the necessity to get lesser kids through on the SOL tests - it is the way of the world - teachers teach to the middle of the class and the lower the middle goes so goes the class.
Again, I would love to see someone in officialdom talk so bluntly and truthfully. But that will not happen - so such talk is reserved for message boards.
Look, the statistics in terms of violence and other incidents at SLHS dwarf schools such as Oakton that are much larger and frankly not without problems themselves. And the incidents of violence by and large are committed by a very identifiable group. Sure, it helps if you train you kid to keep your head down and stay out of the way of trouble, but not every teenager is going to be able to develop those instincts and in such cases will be a far more likely target for the group of predators (not big, but significant) that exist at South Lakes. And don't get me wrong - from what I can see, the school does a Herculean job of trying to keep the peace. But make no mistake about, the behavior of a group of low income, mostly fatherless, conform largely to the existing stereotype kids causes a lot of problems, and while you may disagree with parents who want to avoid South Lakes, it is a stretch to state the parents not wishing their children to transfer to Oakton are irrational - they are not.
And to the point about the new influx of kids raising the tide - well, that will happen. But the dislocation and adjustment period is neither trivial or short. Yes, the school administrators obviously welcome the influx of white and asian kids that will obtain - they generally behave well, don't require teaching to the test in terms of SOL's and the like because they are bright and well prepared enough to learn such material incidentally, and they make the school's statistics, including parent participation, graduation, SAT scores and the like more desirable -- way more desirable. But there is a long adjustment period, and make no mistake about, the benefits that obtained by the school are accomplished on the backs of the transferors, who receive very little in return, unless, of course, one puts undue weight on the shibboleth of diversity, which frankly provides little empirical value. (And Oakton is plenty diverse, it just doesn't have as many blacks, which is the code word in any event for diversity). And don't take the teaching to the test issue likely - the non AP kids stuck in regular classes will be bored and will not prosper from the necessity to get lesser kids through on the SOL tests - it is the way of the world - teachers teach to the middle of the class and the lower the middle goes so goes the class.
Again, I would love to see someone in officialdom talk so bluntly and truthfully. But that will not happen - so such talk is reserved for message boards.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 03, 2007 01:19AM
HooTribe said:
>>>Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.<<<
Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna. Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna schools, play with Vienna little league, and are part of the Vienna community.
The part of Oakton who will be forced into South Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing to do with any planned community.
Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If your argument is that Reston people should go to Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the north end should have known that was the deal before they bought in that neighborhood. If you want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok, but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it. They're happy where they are, they're schools aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside their community. Let Vienna people stay in the Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high school.
>>>Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.<<<
Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna. Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna schools, play with Vienna little league, and are part of the Vienna community.
The part of Oakton who will be forced into South Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing to do with any planned community.
Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If your argument is that Reston people should go to Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the north end should have known that was the deal before they bought in that neighborhood. If you want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok, but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it. They're happy where they are, they're schools aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside their community. Let Vienna people stay in the Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Job Beams
()
Date: October 03, 2007 04:29AM
Great post, quantum!
All readers should read carefully:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: October 02, 2007 08:58PM
This discussion is one of the most articulate and well reasoned that I have seen in this thread.
All readers should read carefully:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: October 02, 2007 08:58PM
This discussion is one of the most articulate and well reasoned that I have seen in this thread.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
as the dirt turns
()
Date: October 03, 2007 08:33AM
Why do some areas of the county get more consideration in boundaries and school construction than others?
One problem is that the politicians build additions at school locations based on politics not geography or where people live. It would have made more sense to build additions at for example Centreville instead of Westfields. Now after the thing is built the school board is saying Westfields is too big for student participation - well they did it so live with it. A solution would be to use the space to stick in an academy rather than have it at Chantilly . Each middle school should have it's own GT center - why bus them around? The Langley money should not be spent.
Converting Carson to a high school [addition etc] and turn Westfields into a secondary school? People actually live near Carson. These are ideas for exploration. As for including Herndon in this boundary process, the Alabama ave area goes to McNair/Herndon/Herndon. Shifting that to South Lakes would not be a wise thing to do considering the the amount of low income housing in South Lakes current boundaries. Not moving anything in the gerrymandered Langley boundary really distorts this boundary process and makes a mockery of the process...
One problem is that the politicians build additions at school locations based on politics not geography or where people live. It would have made more sense to build additions at for example Centreville instead of Westfields. Now after the thing is built the school board is saying Westfields is too big for student participation - well they did it so live with it. A solution would be to use the space to stick in an academy rather than have it at Chantilly . Each middle school should have it's own GT center - why bus them around? The Langley money should not be spent.
Converting Carson to a high school [addition etc] and turn Westfields into a secondary school? People actually live near Carson. These are ideas for exploration. As for including Herndon in this boundary process, the Alabama ave area goes to McNair/Herndon/Herndon. Shifting that to South Lakes would not be a wise thing to do considering the the amount of low income housing in South Lakes current boundaries. Not moving anything in the gerrymandered Langley boundary really distorts this boundary process and makes a mockery of the process...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: October 03, 2007 09:56AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe said:
> >>>Actually, the problem is that only part of
> Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back
> the Madison island and the north of Reston, we
> would then have all of the planned community, not
> just a portion of it.<<<
>
> Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna.
> Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never
> been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna
> schools, play with Vienna little league, and are
> part of the Vienna community.
>
> The part of Oakton who will be forced into South
> Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in
> Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing
> to do with any planned community.
>
> Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If
> your argument is that Reston people should go to
> Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the
> north end should have known that was the deal
> before they bought in that neighborhood. If you
> want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok,
> but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it.
> They're happy where they are, they're schools
> aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them
> to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside
> their community. Let Vienna people stay in the
> Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton
> high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high
> school.
Neen,
Glad to see that there are some of us who can have a calm, rational conversation about the issues.
I do think that all the Reston kids should go to South Lakes - it would provide for more socio-economic balance and promote the area school. As for the Madison island - I am aware that it has a P.O. box address of Vienna, but looking at the map, it is part of and/or close to Reston. I know it is hard to change when people consider themselves part of the Vienna area, but driving through that area (which is above the toll road), it should have been with South Lakes all along - just my opinion. I would also point out that there are small portions of our area (just south of Rt. 7) that currently go to Langley, which also should be going to South Lakes.
The Oakton community is the one that seems more complex. While parts of the Oakton area (north western) are much closer to South Lakes than Oakton, this by itself doesn't mean they should have to switch. The biggest issue is the high number of students at Westfield and the low number at South Lakes. This impacts the programs offerred at both schools - not everyone may be able to participate at Westfield and not enough programs (too few students) at SL. It would be simpler to make the change between these two schools: the northern part of Westfield connects to the SL area.
I understand that no one wants to change, but with a good principal, $50 million rennovation, more students, and the focus of the school board, South Lakes will only grow stronger.
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe said:
> >>>Actually, the problem is that only part of
> Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back
> the Madison island and the north of Reston, we
> would then have all of the planned community, not
> just a portion of it.<<<
>
> Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna.
> Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never
> been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna
> schools, play with Vienna little league, and are
> part of the Vienna community.
>
> The part of Oakton who will be forced into South
> Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in
> Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing
> to do with any planned community.
>
> Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If
> your argument is that Reston people should go to
> Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the
> north end should have known that was the deal
> before they bought in that neighborhood. If you
> want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok,
> but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it.
> They're happy where they are, they're schools
> aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them
> to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside
> their community. Let Vienna people stay in the
> Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton
> high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high
> school.
Neen,
Glad to see that there are some of us who can have a calm, rational conversation about the issues.
I do think that all the Reston kids should go to South Lakes - it would provide for more socio-economic balance and promote the area school. As for the Madison island - I am aware that it has a P.O. box address of Vienna, but looking at the map, it is part of and/or close to Reston. I know it is hard to change when people consider themselves part of the Vienna area, but driving through that area (which is above the toll road), it should have been with South Lakes all along - just my opinion. I would also point out that there are small portions of our area (just south of Rt. 7) that currently go to Langley, which also should be going to South Lakes.
The Oakton community is the one that seems more complex. While parts of the Oakton area (north western) are much closer to South Lakes than Oakton, this by itself doesn't mean they should have to switch. The biggest issue is the high number of students at Westfield and the low number at South Lakes. This impacts the programs offerred at both schools - not everyone may be able to participate at Westfield and not enough programs (too few students) at SL. It would be simpler to make the change between these two schools: the northern part of Westfield connects to the SL area.
I understand that no one wants to change, but with a good principal, $50 million rennovation, more students, and the focus of the school board, South Lakes will only grow stronger.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 03, 2007 11:20AM
Quantam:
I believe that you misunderstand the main thrust of what SLHS supporters are saying, and -- in particular - what I meant about the kid who got roughed up at Oakton.
First, "maybe it was the kid?" could have been too flippant, but I wasn't suggesting that he deserved it or that he was particularly vulnerable. Rather, I was saying that fights, bullying, and conflict happen in schools other than SLHS, but get highlighted at the latter. The SLHS administration's commitment to responsibility and security has paid off, and most SLHS parents feel very comfortable with their kids staying after school, going to events at the school at nights and weekends, and getting to/from school without a Blackwater/Dyncorp escort.
It's the consistent theme that SLHS is a war zone -- and I have heard this from a lot of non-SLHS parents and adults -- that I reject. It just ain't true.
Second, I didn't say that parents who want to send their kids to Oakton (or some HS other than South Lakes) are necessarily irrational. Oakton, Madison, Westfield are all excellent schools and it makes sense that parents seek to have their children attend those schools.
I just think they should take a look at the reality of what SLHS is, and then make up their mind. Don't be misled by the stereotypes and sporadic incidents that have fed those stereotypes. South Lakes is an excellent school in one of the best public school districts in the country. It's not without problems and challenges, but the stereotypes neither fit, nor help.
Hey! Come to a SLHS home football game, and see for yourself. We'll probably lose, but it is a peaceful, energetic social gathering of kids and community, and has been for years. That's the reality.
I believe that you misunderstand the main thrust of what SLHS supporters are saying, and -- in particular - what I meant about the kid who got roughed up at Oakton.
First, "maybe it was the kid?" could have been too flippant, but I wasn't suggesting that he deserved it or that he was particularly vulnerable. Rather, I was saying that fights, bullying, and conflict happen in schools other than SLHS, but get highlighted at the latter. The SLHS administration's commitment to responsibility and security has paid off, and most SLHS parents feel very comfortable with their kids staying after school, going to events at the school at nights and weekends, and getting to/from school without a Blackwater/Dyncorp escort.
It's the consistent theme that SLHS is a war zone -- and I have heard this from a lot of non-SLHS parents and adults -- that I reject. It just ain't true.
Second, I didn't say that parents who want to send their kids to Oakton (or some HS other than South Lakes) are necessarily irrational. Oakton, Madison, Westfield are all excellent schools and it makes sense that parents seek to have their children attend those schools.
I just think they should take a look at the reality of what SLHS is, and then make up their mind. Don't be misled by the stereotypes and sporadic incidents that have fed those stereotypes. South Lakes is an excellent school in one of the best public school districts in the country. It's not without problems and challenges, but the stereotypes neither fit, nor help.
Hey! Come to a SLHS home football game, and see for yourself. We'll probably lose, but it is a peaceful, energetic social gathering of kids and community, and has been for years. That's the reality.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 03, 2007 12:16PM
SLHS Padre - I have been to a South Lakes game - my daughter attends Thomas Jefferson and that team has had the thrill of getting stomped by South Lakes - not an unusual situation with the TJ football team. And the football games are indeed enjoyable and relatively safe events.
But again, make no mistake about it - the incidents of violence at SLHS are orders of magnitude higher than at surrounding schools, and if adjusted for the smaller size of SLHS's population, are even more significant than the raw data suggests in terms of day to day experience. This data is relatively the same year after year after year. And the data doesn't really delineate the scope of the problem, either - it doesn't relate the lower order disciplinary problems committed by the same hard core group of people that have significant socialization problems that erodes the environment for learning.
The problem is real, it exists and it undermines the credibility of those who deign to support the school to trivialize it. And while I think it unfair to unduly criticize the school itself - by all accounts the administration darn well knows the problem before them and do the best they can to contain it - it is not a topic that should be anything but discussed openly - even the stigmatization that might incur with such discussions, as painful as they are to certain afflicted groups of people, tend to have salutary effects.
But again, make no mistake about it - the incidents of violence at SLHS are orders of magnitude higher than at surrounding schools, and if adjusted for the smaller size of SLHS's population, are even more significant than the raw data suggests in terms of day to day experience. This data is relatively the same year after year after year. And the data doesn't really delineate the scope of the problem, either - it doesn't relate the lower order disciplinary problems committed by the same hard core group of people that have significant socialization problems that erodes the environment for learning.
The problem is real, it exists and it undermines the credibility of those who deign to support the school to trivialize it. And while I think it unfair to unduly criticize the school itself - by all accounts the administration darn well knows the problem before them and do the best they can to contain it - it is not a topic that should be anything but discussed openly - even the stigmatization that might incur with such discussions, as painful as they are to certain afflicted groups of people, tend to have salutary effects.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 03, 2007 12:27PM
I know at least a few people who live in the north part of Oakton that want to come to SLHS because it is much closer for them. Not coincidently, these are people who have had past experience with SL, so are not afraid of it. The only people here who are bashing SL are those who know nothing about it.
On the point about the north of Westfields going to SL, that looks good on the map, but that is the area with large amounts of affordable housing, so this would not help SL.
On the point about Reston "lying in our own bed", I take exception. I am glad to live in a place that values diversity, but the reality is that too much affordable housing tips the balance away from diversity. Fairfax county, not Reston, determines where affordable housing should go in the county--they should make sure it is evenly spread out, not just for the surrounding community, but for the people who live in the affordable housing. They should not be in effect segregated and forced to go to Title one elementary schools, which is a direct effect of Fairfax county current affordable housing practices.
Seeing as diversity is not going away, and there will be more of it in the future, I doubt the Oakton enclave will last much longer. Get used to it folks!
On the point about the north of Westfields going to SL, that looks good on the map, but that is the area with large amounts of affordable housing, so this would not help SL.
On the point about Reston "lying in our own bed", I take exception. I am glad to live in a place that values diversity, but the reality is that too much affordable housing tips the balance away from diversity. Fairfax county, not Reston, determines where affordable housing should go in the county--they should make sure it is evenly spread out, not just for the surrounding community, but for the people who live in the affordable housing. They should not be in effect segregated and forced to go to Title one elementary schools, which is a direct effect of Fairfax county current affordable housing practices.
Seeing as diversity is not going away, and there will be more of it in the future, I doubt the Oakton enclave will last much longer. Get used to it folks!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 03, 2007 12:57PM
"Fairfax county, not Reston, determines where affordable housing should go in the county--they should make sure it is evenly spread out..."
Oh, give me a break. The affordable housing has been there for 20+ years, Stonegate and the like. What's been happening over the past 10 years is that families have been avoiding the SLHS area like the plague, thereby magnifying the problems associated with it.
Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10 years. Answer - NONE.
Oh, give me a break. The affordable housing has been there for 20+ years, Stonegate and the like. What's been happening over the past 10 years is that families have been avoiding the SLHS area like the plague, thereby magnifying the problems associated with it.
Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10 years. Answer - NONE.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
let it be
()
Date: October 03, 2007 01:03PM
Leave the boundry alone, if it needs to be adjusted make a date of 2025. That way anyone either in district or choosing to move in to district will know that come 2025 there MAY or MAY NOT be a redistricting depending on population. Why 2025??? That is 18 school years from now all infants born this year will be able to go to and finish where they are districted now. This should also include new born siblings if they choose to attend a school that may be rezoned in 2025.
Secondly it also gives those that want to move ample time to get out of the area and sell their house while thay can. Will an Oakton house lose value if it is re zoned to SL. You bet. And onyone that wnats to argue that point is clueless to property vales in the area. Does it affect me you bet, I ahve been to the meeting and will continue to go. We already ahve an attorney on board and ready for the court case.
For those that don't know the facts Oakton is not over crowded as of school year 2007/08 they are minus 38. In addition to that due to construction limitation in the county (to include the Oakton district) it is estimated that the school population will decrease by an additional 11% in the next three years.
Secondly it also gives those that want to move ample time to get out of the area and sell their house while thay can. Will an Oakton house lose value if it is re zoned to SL. You bet. And onyone that wnats to argue that point is clueless to property vales in the area. Does it affect me you bet, I ahve been to the meeting and will continue to go. We already ahve an attorney on board and ready for the court case.
For those that don't know the facts Oakton is not over crowded as of school year 2007/08 they are minus 38. In addition to that due to construction limitation in the county (to include the Oakton district) it is estimated that the school population will decrease by an additional 11% in the next three years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 03, 2007 01:06PM
Let it be:
Does Oakton have trailers?
Does Oakton have trailers?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TRICKIE
()
Date: October 03, 2007 02:15PM
What high school and middle school do the people who live in Berryland Farms go to?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 03, 2007 02:22PM
South Lakes Pyramid Parent - I concede that some Oakton, Madison parents may simply be afraid of South Lakes without adequately looking into the facts. And I concede that with work and diligence it is possible to get a good education at SLHS, particularly with regard to the 30 or so that get an IB diploma at SLHS. But it all depends on one's point of view. As I mentioned in an earlier post, all Fairfax County High Schools, save for Thomas Jefferson, which is in a class by itself both nationally and regionally, pale in comparison to the regular suburban high school I attended in a suburb of Chicago (attended 25 years ago - it is likely even better than when I attended). And the five or six schools surrounding the school I attended are equally good - there is a reason that all of these schools receive a 10 out of 10 rating (the same as TJ) on the Great Schools rating system - they are that good - better than Oakton's score of "8" - and Madison's score of "9", and Herndon and Chantilly's "7", and considerably, if not standard deviations better than SLHS' "4". Say it doesn't make any difference to an individual student? Maybe, given all the factors at hand. But I came from a single mother home, with very, very little resources, and went to college on an athletic scholarship at one of the few schools in the top 10 USNWR rankings that give athletic scholarships - and I was nearly as well or as well prepared as the matriculants who went to Philips Academy, Andover, and the like. I never, ever felt over my head. This type of experience is the standard, frankly, by which upwardly mobile people who have lived somewhere other than the entitlement based culture in DC seek and wish to obtain. And the blunt truth is that the school I attended (and those like it) are not very diverse, but they did and do have a serious approach towards education and most importantly, they have a significant lack of distractions and lesser students such such as those those found at SLHS.
One group at SLHS averages about 880 on the verbal and math portions of the SAT. I guess one could say kudos for them for even taking it, and for the high school diploma (i.e., not dropping out) that it likely implies. But it takes around at least a 1000 to be able to do meaningful (and I do mean meaningful) college work, and a school like SLHS, for reasons I understand, does spend an inordinate amount of resource, time and focus on improving these kids - and frankly, on those that don't even take the SAT's or those that drop out - kids the stats don't reach and thus make the challenges appear less significant than they actually are.
This is not intended to be a rant at South Lakes - from what I have seen, the school does an admirable job with the "material" they have to work with. But it does serve as a reminder that in addition to spending money on buildings and diversity and other feel good programs, the school would be well advised to, if it wants to enhance acceptance by those compelled to transfer, focus on a level of academic excellence for better students in a way not typical of Fairfax County Schools (and yes, bluntly that means mostly whites and asians). And in so doing, they must (not an easy thing to do for many educators that also are fond of social engineering) live with the de facto apartheid that such an approach will create, and resist the urge to water down the more academically challenging programs in the name of diversity. Great academic programs that truly challenge will do more to ease transitional issues than anything else.
One group at SLHS averages about 880 on the verbal and math portions of the SAT. I guess one could say kudos for them for even taking it, and for the high school diploma (i.e., not dropping out) that it likely implies. But it takes around at least a 1000 to be able to do meaningful (and I do mean meaningful) college work, and a school like SLHS, for reasons I understand, does spend an inordinate amount of resource, time and focus on improving these kids - and frankly, on those that don't even take the SAT's or those that drop out - kids the stats don't reach and thus make the challenges appear less significant than they actually are.
This is not intended to be a rant at South Lakes - from what I have seen, the school does an admirable job with the "material" they have to work with. But it does serve as a reminder that in addition to spending money on buildings and diversity and other feel good programs, the school would be well advised to, if it wants to enhance acceptance by those compelled to transfer, focus on a level of academic excellence for better students in a way not typical of Fairfax County Schools (and yes, bluntly that means mostly whites and asians). And in so doing, they must (not an easy thing to do for many educators that also are fond of social engineering) live with the de facto apartheid that such an approach will create, and resist the urge to water down the more academically challenging programs in the name of diversity. Great academic programs that truly challenge will do more to ease transitional issues than anything else.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 03, 2007 03:06PM
Quantum,
I do get what you are saying. I am of the opinion that, while statistics do matter for many reasons, and should be taken seriously at an organizational level to make changes, they matter much less on an individual basis.
I assume my kids will be in the IB program while in High school. The IB program has national grading standards, meaning the grading is intended to be consistent across schools, etc. I assume from this that my kids will likely get the same education in South Lakes that they would in any IB school, especially within FFX county. Apparently, colleges think this too, or they wouldn't be accepting a lot of SL students.
So, if your kid is in the regular classes currently at SL, they are at a disadvantage. However, the balance will change with redistricting that will add over 50% more students to SL. Obviously, that is going to change the statistics a lot in the regular classes. Aside from that, if your kid is in Honors or GT, they will be doing IB in high school, and will get the benefits of that, no matter what high school in FFX county they are in.
Also, my kids actually like the diversity in the schools, believe it or not! and even though they have friends in neighboring schools, they do not want to go there. It really does give them something that kids from Oakton don't get. I like that part. and no, diversity doesn't just mean "black". It's also the kids from other cultures that they interact with on a daily basis. They really do get a different perspective that I never had, but I appreciate. I think it really does teach them to be accepting of many types of differences, not just racial, but cultural, talent, etc.
I'm not bashing people who want to stay at Oakton for whatever reason, but I guess I do think it is small-minded to think that the trends of our society in general, greater diversity, etc, will never touch them, and shouldn't, because they bought a house in a particular neighborhood, thereby giving them the right to stay in their enclave in perpetuity. Change happens!
I do get what you are saying. I am of the opinion that, while statistics do matter for many reasons, and should be taken seriously at an organizational level to make changes, they matter much less on an individual basis.
I assume my kids will be in the IB program while in High school. The IB program has national grading standards, meaning the grading is intended to be consistent across schools, etc. I assume from this that my kids will likely get the same education in South Lakes that they would in any IB school, especially within FFX county. Apparently, colleges think this too, or they wouldn't be accepting a lot of SL students.
So, if your kid is in the regular classes currently at SL, they are at a disadvantage. However, the balance will change with redistricting that will add over 50% more students to SL. Obviously, that is going to change the statistics a lot in the regular classes. Aside from that, if your kid is in Honors or GT, they will be doing IB in high school, and will get the benefits of that, no matter what high school in FFX county they are in.
Also, my kids actually like the diversity in the schools, believe it or not! and even though they have friends in neighboring schools, they do not want to go there. It really does give them something that kids from Oakton don't get. I like that part. and no, diversity doesn't just mean "black". It's also the kids from other cultures that they interact with on a daily basis. They really do get a different perspective that I never had, but I appreciate. I think it really does teach them to be accepting of many types of differences, not just racial, but cultural, talent, etc.
I'm not bashing people who want to stay at Oakton for whatever reason, but I guess I do think it is small-minded to think that the trends of our society in general, greater diversity, etc, will never touch them, and shouldn't, because they bought a house in a particular neighborhood, thereby giving them the right to stay in their enclave in perpetuity. Change happens!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Job Beams
()
Date: October 03, 2007 03:33PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent~
It's clear that you are rationalizing and don't want to understand the facts that quantum has articulated so well.
I have attended more government-sponsored "diversity" classes than most people. It's true, what quantum has said. For your stasis, it is really good that you and your children can rationalize your situations--I sincerely mean this statement. It surely does no good to lament one's situation and blame the environment.
I am a believer in the melting pot concept. Some where along the line this concept has changed to "diversity." I believe in the equality of all people. But it really does boil down to nature and nurture. And, let's face it: some subcultures are abhorrent--diversity training is not going to change that fact.
It's clear that you are rationalizing and don't want to understand the facts that quantum has articulated so well.
I have attended more government-sponsored "diversity" classes than most people. It's true, what quantum has said. For your stasis, it is really good that you and your children can rationalize your situations--I sincerely mean this statement. It surely does no good to lament one's situation and blame the environment.
I am a believer in the melting pot concept. Some where along the line this concept has changed to "diversity." I believe in the equality of all people. But it really does boil down to nature and nurture. And, let's face it: some subcultures are abhorrent--diversity training is not going to change that fact.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 03, 2007 04:38PM
JB:
Um, what facts, exactly? I didn't see any stated, aside from test scores of "some kids" at the school. Does having "some" kids at a school that score 880 say anything about how my kid is going to score? Not likely.
Especially given the other facts posted recently about SL, like 65% acceptance at UVA, and the fact that the number of merit scholars was the similar for many FFX schools, including SL. These numbers actually matter.
Um, what facts, exactly? I didn't see any stated, aside from test scores of "some kids" at the school. Does having "some" kids at a school that score 880 say anything about how my kid is going to score? Not likely.
Especially given the other facts posted recently about SL, like 65% acceptance at UVA, and the fact that the number of merit scholars was the similar for many FFX schools, including SL. These numbers actually matter.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 03, 2007 05:12PM
Facts...
When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):
1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests
2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations
3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores
4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges
It's all on the FCPS web site
When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):
1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests
2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations
3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores
4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges
It's all on the FCPS web site
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 03, 2007 05:49PM
None of these statistics are surprising given the current demographics and the small number enrolled in the school. And, on the SAT scores, Westfields is only marginally higher and Herndon not at all.
This still doesn't refute my points on individual achievement and the kids in the IB program. Let's look at averages for kids in those programs across schools, if we want to compare apples to apples.
Also, let's estimate what the scores would be assuming redistricting-- that will give a more accurate picture of the school kids would actually experience once they are redistricted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2007 06:02PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
This still doesn't refute my points on individual achievement and the kids in the IB program. Let's look at averages for kids in those programs across schools, if we want to compare apples to apples.
Also, let's estimate what the scores would be assuming redistricting-- that will give a more accurate picture of the school kids would actually experience once they are redistricted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2007 06:02PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
.........
()
Date: October 03, 2007 06:12PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Also, let's estimate what the scores would be
> assuming redistricting-- that will give a more
> accurate picture of the school kids would actually
> experience once they are redistricted.
South Lakes Pyramid parent,
I find all this very interesting and I hope you can answer a question for me:
So, you feel as a South Lakes Parent it is okay to move students from one school, Oakton?, to South Lakes (or any other failing school) to help even out the schools test scores?
Is this fair to the students or the community they would be coming from?
Is this something the School Board does to keep schools with not so great test scores to better them?
I find it a little disturbing that “some kids” would be used this way. Am I the only one that feels this way?
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Also, let's estimate what the scores would be
> assuming redistricting-- that will give a more
> accurate picture of the school kids would actually
> experience once they are redistricted.
South Lakes Pyramid parent,
I find all this very interesting and I hope you can answer a question for me:
So, you feel as a South Lakes Parent it is okay to move students from one school, Oakton?, to South Lakes (or any other failing school) to help even out the schools test scores?
Is this fair to the students or the community they would be coming from?
Is this something the School Board does to keep schools with not so great test scores to better them?
I find it a little disturbing that “some kids” would be used this way. Am I the only one that feels this way?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: October 03, 2007 08:15PM
> >
>
>
> Is this something the School Board does to keep
> schools with not so great test scores to better
> them?
>
>
As I stated in my previous posts, the School Board catered to overzealous parents by changing the boundaries. One of the results is the lower test scores at certain schools.
>
>
> Is this something the School Board does to keep
> schools with not so great test scores to better
> them?
>
>
As I stated in my previous posts, the School Board catered to overzealous parents by changing the boundaries. One of the results is the lower test scores at certain schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: October 03, 2007 08:31PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a
> dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10
> years. Answer - NONE.
I would say Marshall High School got hosed in the 90's by certain neighborhoods along the Rt 7 corridor west of the Toll Road. One of the reasons is that those homeowners convinced the school board that they did not want their children attending a school with a vocational center. (I don't know who they expect to repair their Mercedes?)
As a result, this area is now Langley and McLean boundaries. Marshall's enrollment is now about 1100 students - the smallest high school in the county. Kudos to the administration at Marshall for keeping the school competitive academically.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a
> dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10
> years. Answer - NONE.
I would say Marshall High School got hosed in the 90's by certain neighborhoods along the Rt 7 corridor west of the Toll Road. One of the reasons is that those homeowners convinced the school board that they did not want their children attending a school with a vocational center. (I don't know who they expect to repair their Mercedes?)
As a result, this area is now Langley and McLean boundaries. Marshall's enrollment is now about 1100 students - the smallest high school in the county. Kudos to the administration at Marshall for keeping the school competitive academically.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 03, 2007 09:25PM
I think there are many factors at play in why Reston has lost enrollment. I know several people who, instead of trying to deal with RA on renovating their homes, simply moved up to a nicer homes elsewhere. The aging of Reston has not been graceful, and it seems that RA;s design review process is intimidating to many people and they need to make the process more friendly and flexible if they want people to stay.
To ...., first of all, SL is not a "failing school". SAT scores are quite respectable, and I know many successful kids coming out of it. Secondly, I could turn your argument right around and ask if it is fair that Reston takes on so much of the county's burden of affordable housing, allowing the folks of Oakton and Great Falls to continue their oblivion to the world around them.
To ...., first of all, SL is not a "failing school". SAT scores are quite respectable, and I know many successful kids coming out of it. Secondly, I could turn your argument right around and ask if it is fair that Reston takes on so much of the county's burden of affordable housing, allowing the folks of Oakton and Great Falls to continue their oblivion to the world around them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 04, 2007 01:44AM
Why does anyone think that the school board will suddenly focus on South Lakes now when they haven't before? What would this 'focus' accomplish? Yes, renovations are nice, it's good that they finally got doors on all the classrooms, but few parents care about their whoopy new restoration.
Twenty years ago Marshall was under enrolled. They look kids out of Madison and sent them to Marshall. It made NO difference, Marshall remains under enrolled. The land is so valuable, the school system would be very wise to close Marshall. With thousands of empty seats in FC schools, it shouldn't be a problem to put those students elsewhere.
Berryland neighborhood, out Vale Road, attends Thoreau Middle school and Madison high school.
The IB program was supposed to stop white flight. It didn't. Parents don't want IB. The majority want the AP program as evidenced by ALL the top schools choosing AP over IB.
Yes, Reston is messed up, with an HOA that makes it very unfriendly to families with children. But why do families in Vienna and Oakton have to pay for that?
Twenty years ago Marshall was under enrolled. They look kids out of Madison and sent them to Marshall. It made NO difference, Marshall remains under enrolled. The land is so valuable, the school system would be very wise to close Marshall. With thousands of empty seats in FC schools, it shouldn't be a problem to put those students elsewhere.
Berryland neighborhood, out Vale Road, attends Thoreau Middle school and Madison high school.
The IB program was supposed to stop white flight. It didn't. Parents don't want IB. The majority want the AP program as evidenced by ALL the top schools choosing AP over IB.
Yes, Reston is messed up, with an HOA that makes it very unfriendly to families with children. But why do families in Vienna and Oakton have to pay for that?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Courgar
()
Date: October 04, 2007 07:52AM
Leave OAKTON students where they are. I didn't buy where I did to go to SLHS simple as that. If the county administrators could not plan accordingly back when, oh well. I hope they have a good attorney because it will be one heck of a fight that will drag on for years.
123 COURGAR PRIDE!
123 COURGAR PRIDE!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
........................
()
Date: October 04, 2007 07:53AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent,
Thank you for your comments and I didn’t mean to offend your school in any way. I know South Lakes is not a failing school and all schools in Fairfax County are the best.
But, I don’t think it is right to move students/community from one school to another to help with the test scores or anything else. Why should a certain “type” of student be used this way to help the school(s). I think I read in a post above, Asians and White students are used by the public school systems to help boost the test scores and anything else, and this is why the School Board likes to relocate these students. The schools in Fairfax County are dropping in enrollment, so why should the students/community of Oakton be moved out? If they like the school the way it is, let them stay. I am not from the area, but as a parent with children in the public schools, I am concerned what the school board is capable of doing to the students/community.
Thank you for your comments and I didn’t mean to offend your school in any way. I know South Lakes is not a failing school and all schools in Fairfax County are the best.
But, I don’t think it is right to move students/community from one school to another to help with the test scores or anything else. Why should a certain “type” of student be used this way to help the school(s). I think I read in a post above, Asians and White students are used by the public school systems to help boost the test scores and anything else, and this is why the School Board likes to relocate these students. The schools in Fairfax County are dropping in enrollment, so why should the students/community of Oakton be moved out? If they like the school the way it is, let them stay. I am not from the area, but as a parent with children in the public schools, I am concerned what the school board is capable of doing to the students/community.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 04, 2007 08:05AM
as to the question... is it fair that Reston has so much affordable housing?
Not sure, but it is certainly what the Reston community wants - so live with the consequences of your actions, don't look to neighboring schoools to bail you out
From the Connection http://www.cpdc.org/downloadarticles.php?articlesKey=4
In the early 1990s Reston Interfaith engaged in a program where it bought townhouses with its own money, and with some money from Fairfax County, federal money granted to the county through the Housing Choice Voucher Program — formerly known as Section 8. The townhouses bought by Reston Interfaith would then be preserved as affordable housing and would be inhabited by persons with disabilities and low incomes.
A SUCCESS STORY in preserving affordable housing is the Island Walk Cooperative in Reston. Not only was Island Walk able to retain 102 units of affordable housing, but also it was able to finance a complete renovation of the property to better its residents' lives. Island Walk was able to retain its status as an affordable housing community by joining in a sales agreement with a nonprofit developer, Community Preservation Development Corporation (CPDC).
Mike Corrigan, the president of the Reston Citizens Association (RCA) Board of Directors, said there is a great deal of danger that Reston will lose more affordable housing. The RCA has decided to become active in the preservation of affordable housing and will look to partner up with Reston Interfaith to determine how to get involved. One of the ways to advocate for the issue is to discuss with Fairfax County the possibility of rezoning the commercial space to mixed use, adding a provision that affordable housing units be included.
Not sure, but it is certainly what the Reston community wants - so live with the consequences of your actions, don't look to neighboring schoools to bail you out
From the Connection http://www.cpdc.org/downloadarticles.php?articlesKey=4
In the early 1990s Reston Interfaith engaged in a program where it bought townhouses with its own money, and with some money from Fairfax County, federal money granted to the county through the Housing Choice Voucher Program — formerly known as Section 8. The townhouses bought by Reston Interfaith would then be preserved as affordable housing and would be inhabited by persons with disabilities and low incomes.
A SUCCESS STORY in preserving affordable housing is the Island Walk Cooperative in Reston. Not only was Island Walk able to retain 102 units of affordable housing, but also it was able to finance a complete renovation of the property to better its residents' lives. Island Walk was able to retain its status as an affordable housing community by joining in a sales agreement with a nonprofit developer, Community Preservation Development Corporation (CPDC).
Mike Corrigan, the president of the Reston Citizens Association (RCA) Board of Directors, said there is a great deal of danger that Reston will lose more affordable housing. The RCA has decided to become active in the preservation of affordable housing and will look to partner up with Reston Interfaith to determine how to get involved. One of the ways to advocate for the issue is to discuss with Fairfax County the possibility of rezoning the commercial space to mixed use, adding a provision that affordable housing units be included.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 04, 2007 09:53AM
Word,
The "Reston Community" is not monolithic. We don't all agree that Reston should continue to step up to the affordability plate while surrounding areas do nothing. This was evident in the South Reston Park and Ride debate.
The point is, this county does have a need for affordable housing, and that need is growing. Like it or not, it does. I don't think places in the county that have little or none can or should continue to escape this fact forever, on the backs of places like Reston.
The consequence of their inaction (or active politicking, I don't really know) is redistricting.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2007 09:56AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
The "Reston Community" is not monolithic. We don't all agree that Reston should continue to step up to the affordability plate while surrounding areas do nothing. This was evident in the South Reston Park and Ride debate.
The point is, this county does have a need for affordable housing, and that need is growing. Like it or not, it does. I don't think places in the county that have little or none can or should continue to escape this fact forever, on the backs of places like Reston.
The consequence of their inaction (or active politicking, I don't really know) is redistricting.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2007 09:56AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
..........................
()
Date: October 04, 2007 10:10AM
Is redistricting the right thing to do?
If students get redistricted to South Lakes how will that help the students of South Lakes? It seems like it will only make the school; principal, teachers, etc. look better. Students who need help may get lost and not get the help they need. Why not address the problem, help the students at South Lakes, who need help. Maybe I’m missing something, if you put students who have high test scores in a school with low test scores, this helps the students who don’t do well on the tests??? Please help me understand this better.
If students get redistricted to South Lakes how will that help the students of South Lakes? It seems like it will only make the school; principal, teachers, etc. look better. Students who need help may get lost and not get the help they need. Why not address the problem, help the students at South Lakes, who need help. Maybe I’m missing something, if you put students who have high test scores in a school with low test scores, this helps the students who don’t do well on the tests??? Please help me understand this better.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 04, 2007 10:20AM
In 2008-09 FCPS should do a county wide boundary process at the middle and high school level. The reality would be most staying where they are but a lot of gerrymandering would be cleaned up.
What I would recommend for 2007-08 is cancelling all additions in progess at the secondary level [non are needed] and cancelling the West County Boundary Process as occurred in South County for an entire geographic area. The cancellations would be done because there is now a task force [Middle school GT centers] and transportation task force. Middle school GTC's should be moved to each base school.
Downsides to buying in a county-wide school division include boundaries can change and there is less community control at all levels. I can see where some areas might have grounds for suit since FCPS is not proceeding equitably. How can Gibson move the Madison Island when he doesn't move one of the 3C's which is sandwiched between the South Lakes and Madison areas off Hunter Mill?
The school board created the South Lakes Pariah. You have the Reston [oops I mean Hunter Mill]school board member along with the Dranesville rep historically sending northern borderlands to Langley until Domenech put a plug in the fun. Domenech administratively boundary changed a massive Toll Brothers development from Langley to South lakes.
What I would recommend for 2007-08 is cancelling all additions in progess at the secondary level [non are needed] and cancelling the West County Boundary Process as occurred in South County for an entire geographic area. The cancellations would be done because there is now a task force [Middle school GT centers] and transportation task force. Middle school GTC's should be moved to each base school.
Downsides to buying in a county-wide school division include boundaries can change and there is less community control at all levels. I can see where some areas might have grounds for suit since FCPS is not proceeding equitably. How can Gibson move the Madison Island when he doesn't move one of the 3C's which is sandwiched between the South Lakes and Madison areas off Hunter Mill?
The school board created the South Lakes Pariah. You have the Reston [oops I mean Hunter Mill]school board member along with the Dranesville rep historically sending northern borderlands to Langley until Domenech put a plug in the fun. Domenech administratively boundary changed a massive Toll Brothers development from Langley to South lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: October 04, 2007 10:38AM
.......................... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is redistricting the right thing to do?
>
> If students get redistricted to South Lakes how > will that help the students of South Lakes? It > seems like it will only make the school; > principal, teachers, etc. look better. Students > who need help may get lost and not get the help > they need. Why not address the problem, help the > students at South Lakes, who need help. Maybe I’m > missing something, if you put students who have
> high test scores in a school with low test scores,> this helps the students who don’t do well on the > tests??? Please help me understand this better.
It depends on whether you would agree to the concepts put forth in the book "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference". The concept "The Law of the Few" describes the influence certain individuals have on others. Students who excel would no doubt have a postive influence on others (leadership, talent, good example, new ideas, etc.). You may buy into that, or you may just not care, but there is a case to say that there would be a postive effect.
Another example: someone above put down any positive impact of the school renovation. Again there is a concept in the book that would say that it may have a real impact. The concept of "the power of context" talks to how human behavior is strongly influenced by external variables of context. If things are run down, people don't care. If they are clean and modern, they do. This also goes to the concerns of security - let's ask the board what they are going to do instead of just accepting it as is.
Some people buy into the tipping point concepts, some don't. Regardless, the discussion needs to get beyond dragging South Lakes and Reston through the mud to justify no change. Hopefully someone will come up with a few creative ideas so we don't face this issue again in 5 - 10 years.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is redistricting the right thing to do?
>
> If students get redistricted to South Lakes how > will that help the students of South Lakes? It > seems like it will only make the school; > principal, teachers, etc. look better. Students > who need help may get lost and not get the help > they need. Why not address the problem, help the > students at South Lakes, who need help. Maybe I’m > missing something, if you put students who have
> high test scores in a school with low test scores,> this helps the students who don’t do well on the > tests??? Please help me understand this better.
It depends on whether you would agree to the concepts put forth in the book "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference". The concept "The Law of the Few" describes the influence certain individuals have on others. Students who excel would no doubt have a postive influence on others (leadership, talent, good example, new ideas, etc.). You may buy into that, or you may just not care, but there is a case to say that there would be a postive effect.
Another example: someone above put down any positive impact of the school renovation. Again there is a concept in the book that would say that it may have a real impact. The concept of "the power of context" talks to how human behavior is strongly influenced by external variables of context. If things are run down, people don't care. If they are clean and modern, they do. This also goes to the concerns of security - let's ask the board what they are going to do instead of just accepting it as is.
Some people buy into the tipping point concepts, some don't. Regardless, the discussion needs to get beyond dragging South Lakes and Reston through the mud to justify no change. Hopefully someone will come up with a few creative ideas so we don't face this issue again in 5 - 10 years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
...................
()
Date: October 04, 2007 10:54AM
I think it’s odd how the school board seems to pick and choose what school(s) they want to work with. If the school board wants to help schools with low student population such as South Lakes, why don’t they fix all the school with low student population? Mt. Vernon is an excellent example, I know for a fact they will not change the boundary for that school. No community wants to go to that school and so the school board is letting that school sit there with low student population.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jimmy
()
Date: October 04, 2007 11:06AM
New Solution
let's send the kids from Thomas Jefferson High School to all the other county schools
this action will be positive and will raise the scores in ALL the schools
these students will be premier role models for the disadvantaged students
let's send the kids from Thomas Jefferson High School to all the other county schools
this action will be positive and will raise the scores in ALL the schools
these students will be premier role models for the disadvantaged students
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 04, 2007 11:47AM
................... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> why don’t they fix all the school with low student
> population? Mt. Vernon is an excellent example...
That's why we need a county wide boundary process...I think one was done in the mid eighties and 20 years of poltics has gotten us into a muddle.
Another odd thing about the Mount Vernon is the kids who go there have Whitman Middle School which is smaller than Sandburg for West Potomac. One argument is Whitman doesn't hav enough space for everyone at Mount Vernon. [This is from the same school system that has approved boundaries with split feeders in the past decade.] Both Sandburg AND Whitman are in the West Potomac boundaries so adjust those plus some more. Sandburg used to be Fort Hunt HS so it even has a football stadium.
Another one projected to be fallow with 700 openings is Lake Braddock. Dale didn't even include that school in his BRAC letter.
Then we have Fall Church HS which is so underused they could have moved a lot of Luther Jackson into it and called it a secondary school [underused in range of about 700-900]. The administrators could have sat in Luther Jackson instead of their new snazzy building. They're across Gallows Rd from each other in the same 7-11/McDonald's service area of Merrifield. I'm sick of paying for this mess - Loudoun uses it's buildings.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> why don’t they fix all the school with low student
> population? Mt. Vernon is an excellent example...
That's why we need a county wide boundary process...I think one was done in the mid eighties and 20 years of poltics has gotten us into a muddle.
Another odd thing about the Mount Vernon is the kids who go there have Whitman Middle School which is smaller than Sandburg for West Potomac. One argument is Whitman doesn't hav enough space for everyone at Mount Vernon. [This is from the same school system that has approved boundaries with split feeders in the past decade.] Both Sandburg AND Whitman are in the West Potomac boundaries so adjust those plus some more. Sandburg used to be Fort Hunt HS so it even has a football stadium.
Another one projected to be fallow with 700 openings is Lake Braddock. Dale didn't even include that school in his BRAC letter.
Then we have Fall Church HS which is so underused they could have moved a lot of Luther Jackson into it and called it a secondary school [underused in range of about 700-900]. The administrators could have sat in Luther Jackson instead of their new snazzy building. They're across Gallows Rd from each other in the same 7-11/McDonald's service area of Merrifield. I'm sick of paying for this mess - Loudoun uses it's buildings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 04, 2007 12:24PM
I find it a little disturbing that “some kids” would be used this way. Am I the only one that feels this way?
No you are not! Who is to guarantee that a transfer fixes all these statistics--could make some of them worst. Transfer students can't participate in IB programs (or would not be adequately prepared for them since the prep starts in middle school). Rising 7th and 8th graders would not be prepared. This would play into all of the statistics.
It would be simpler to make the change between these two schools: the northern part of Westfield connects to the SL area.
Yeah, that would be so simple execpt that these kids would be riding school buses through Oakton neighborhoods to get to SL. All of these neighborhoods are closer to SL. Plus the northern part of WF has become the county's "baggage" that they seem to tote around every few years to a new school, in attempt to fix the county's problems.
Now after the thing is built the school board is saying Westfields is too big for student participation - well they did it so live with it.
Exactly moving, 300, 600, 900 kids out of Westfield is going to change this? The school was built big, even twiddling down the numbers doesn't mean little Timmy gets to be first string, show lead, varsity tight-end any sooner.
And the Madison island....should that really be the only proposed part of Madison transferred to SL? Take a look at some of the other Madison neighborhoods, they are w/in a mile or so of SL.
People can go on and on, one reason or another, but the bottom line...most noone from Chantilly, Oakton, Westfield, Madison, Herndon wants to move to SL...for a number of reasons. Who cares "why?"
Everyone should support moving some type of magnet program or academy move to SL. Whatever draws the crowds...a TJ West, Chantilly academy, Foreign Immersion Academy, Sports Academy..the list goes on. This carries the same guarantee to fix the SL stats as a big transfer--none, but far less disruptive and far more appealing to voters.
No you are not! Who is to guarantee that a transfer fixes all these statistics--could make some of them worst. Transfer students can't participate in IB programs (or would not be adequately prepared for them since the prep starts in middle school). Rising 7th and 8th graders would not be prepared. This would play into all of the statistics.
It would be simpler to make the change between these two schools: the northern part of Westfield connects to the SL area.
Yeah, that would be so simple execpt that these kids would be riding school buses through Oakton neighborhoods to get to SL. All of these neighborhoods are closer to SL. Plus the northern part of WF has become the county's "baggage" that they seem to tote around every few years to a new school, in attempt to fix the county's problems.
Now after the thing is built the school board is saying Westfields is too big for student participation - well they did it so live with it.
Exactly moving, 300, 600, 900 kids out of Westfield is going to change this? The school was built big, even twiddling down the numbers doesn't mean little Timmy gets to be first string, show lead, varsity tight-end any sooner.
And the Madison island....should that really be the only proposed part of Madison transferred to SL? Take a look at some of the other Madison neighborhoods, they are w/in a mile or so of SL.
People can go on and on, one reason or another, but the bottom line...most noone from Chantilly, Oakton, Westfield, Madison, Herndon wants to move to SL...for a number of reasons. Who cares "why?"
Everyone should support moving some type of magnet program or academy move to SL. Whatever draws the crowds...a TJ West, Chantilly academy, Foreign Immersion Academy, Sports Academy..the list goes on. This carries the same guarantee to fix the SL stats as a big transfer--none, but far less disruptive and far more appealing to voters.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TRICKIE
()
Date: October 04, 2007 12:50PM
I taught in the county for over 30 years. When I first started teaching here, the classes were basically tracked. A teacher knew for sure that at least three classes would be full of kids who were there to learn. Classroom disruptions were rare and discipline was pretty cut and dried. Over the years, the educational powers to be had all the schools mainstream kids who were formerly in special ed or in special schools. Now it's not unusual to have kids in a classroom with emotional problems, developmental problems (IQ's of 80 or less) various learning disabliites ( ex. ADD, or reading problems) or severe behavior problems ( Opposotional Defiance Disorder, anger management problems, criminal behavior, sociopaths, psychopaths etc) In former years, these kids were in special classes or special schools like Bryant. In addition, chronic bad kids were expelled. We can't expell kids any more: we just move them to another school.
Secondly, more and more kids in Fairfax County are coming to school with little or no language skills or they come from an impoverished home. More and more parents are lacking skills to control their kids or to teach them right from wrong. Drugs are more rampant as is alcohol abuse. So instead of the nice, well behaved kid in a classroom with other nice well behaved kids who want to learn and want to do well in school, that kid is going to be in a classroom with social deviants, kids with limited English skills that will dumb down the class, kids with no values who settle things by fighting or stealing, kids who sit there and do nothing but come only for the free lunch and the socializing. This atmosphere is bound to affect kids who were taught to come to school to learn.
Just because you moved to Fairfax after living in Desmoines Iowa and read the PR stuff about FCPS and then purchased a $700,000 home here does not mean your kid will be attending a safe or learning friendly environment.
I would urge all parents to come into the schools and look around. Don't be like the room mothers or PTO volunteers and just stock books in the media center or sort out gift wrap at home or in a small office out of the way of the students. Stand in the halls during class changes, use the student restrooms, go to an assembly, eat lunch in the cafeteria with the kids, walk into your own child's classes and quietly sit down. It will be an eye opener. Oh and before you leave, take a walk outside the building and see what's going on by the back of the cafeteria, parking lots, trailers etc. Teachers do this on a regular basis as part of our jobs and that's why many of us are not feeling too optimistic about the state of public education. And we teach in one of the better places!!!!
Couple this in with parents who blame the schools for everything - kids on drugs, kid not getting into UVA, kid not getting into GT, kid getting a D or F, kid bored with school, kid cuts school, kid gets picked on, kid did not make honor roll, ( Well you get my drift.)
So they can draw those school borders any way they want and the problems you guys all talk about will still be there. My recommendations are - start expelling kids once again, create more alternative schools, prosecute juveniles for offenses committed in our schools ( assault, drugs,stealing, vandalism), put special education kids in resource rooms not in regular classes unless they can handle the work, not allow illegal immigrants in schools without more command of our culture and language, stop asking schools to do social work, back up teachers and administrars on discipline issues, (no more appeals!). Okay, those are my ideas and I realize they aren't popular but unless you spent a lot of time in our schools, I don't think you have the true picture.
Trickie
Secondly, more and more kids in Fairfax County are coming to school with little or no language skills or they come from an impoverished home. More and more parents are lacking skills to control their kids or to teach them right from wrong. Drugs are more rampant as is alcohol abuse. So instead of the nice, well behaved kid in a classroom with other nice well behaved kids who want to learn and want to do well in school, that kid is going to be in a classroom with social deviants, kids with limited English skills that will dumb down the class, kids with no values who settle things by fighting or stealing, kids who sit there and do nothing but come only for the free lunch and the socializing. This atmosphere is bound to affect kids who were taught to come to school to learn.
Just because you moved to Fairfax after living in Desmoines Iowa and read the PR stuff about FCPS and then purchased a $700,000 home here does not mean your kid will be attending a safe or learning friendly environment.
I would urge all parents to come into the schools and look around. Don't be like the room mothers or PTO volunteers and just stock books in the media center or sort out gift wrap at home or in a small office out of the way of the students. Stand in the halls during class changes, use the student restrooms, go to an assembly, eat lunch in the cafeteria with the kids, walk into your own child's classes and quietly sit down. It will be an eye opener. Oh and before you leave, take a walk outside the building and see what's going on by the back of the cafeteria, parking lots, trailers etc. Teachers do this on a regular basis as part of our jobs and that's why many of us are not feeling too optimistic about the state of public education. And we teach in one of the better places!!!!
Couple this in with parents who blame the schools for everything - kids on drugs, kid not getting into UVA, kid not getting into GT, kid getting a D or F, kid bored with school, kid cuts school, kid gets picked on, kid did not make honor roll, ( Well you get my drift.)
So they can draw those school borders any way they want and the problems you guys all talk about will still be there. My recommendations are - start expelling kids once again, create more alternative schools, prosecute juveniles for offenses committed in our schools ( assault, drugs,stealing, vandalism), put special education kids in resource rooms not in regular classes unless they can handle the work, not allow illegal immigrants in schools without more command of our culture and language, stop asking schools to do social work, back up teachers and administrars on discipline issues, (no more appeals!). Okay, those are my ideas and I realize they aren't popular but unless you spent a lot of time in our schools, I don't think you have the true picture.
Trickie
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Indeed
()
Date: October 04, 2007 12:54PM
Well said, Trickie. Reaffirms my reason for sending my kids to private school, which is an option for anyone in this area.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TRICKIE
()
Date: October 04, 2007 12:58PM
Even poor people can send their kids to a private school especially in the Catholic schools. Scholarships are readily available and they can also kick kids out. This makes a huge difference.
Trickie
Trickie
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Indeed
()
Date: October 04, 2007 01:02PM
Absolutely correct again, Trickie. Parochial schools in this area are very diverse and yet produce more disciplined and better prepared students. Like you said, scholarships are available to many. It amazes me what a better job they do than the county and with FAR fewer dollars.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
?
()
Date: October 04, 2007 01:14PM
> So, if your kid is in the regular classes
> currently at SL, they are at a disadvantage.
> However, the balance will change with
> redistricting that will add over 50% more students
> to SL.
Good luck to the average student, they will need it when they get redistricted to SL! I guess the parents will have to force their child to take advanced classes and hope they can handle it!
> currently at SL, they are at a disadvantage.
> However, the balance will change with
> redistricting that will add over 50% more students
> to SL.
Good luck to the average student, they will need it when they get redistricted to SL! I guess the parents will have to force their child to take advanced classes and hope they can handle it!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TRICKIE
()
Date: October 04, 2007 01:16PM
I grew up in Cleveland in the middle of the city. I attended catholic grade school and the population of that school was probably one third black. Also our class size was huge - over 40 kids per class. I do not remember discipline problems like we have today. We did have the occasional fight on the playground but the nuns took care of the ofenders swiftly and firmly without parents coming in screaming "racism" or anyone appealing a punishment. By the way, this was in the early 50's because I was born in 1947. Oh and most of the kids were from blue collar families. My dad was a pressman for the Plain Dealer. My mom cleaned diapers at a diaper factory. We alos had kids who were not as proficiant in English ( mostly Polish and latvians and some Mexicans who worked in the canning factories) . But they all learned English without ESL teachers. Oh and we had plenty of kids who weren't real smart too. There was no GT just reading groups and math groups. And we learned right from wrong even though our parents worked hard. Many women were working outside the home. My neighborhood was not the typical Ozzie and Harriet one. It was after WW2 and women had been working at low paying jobs while the men were away at war. My mom was not a soccer mom and my dad c ame home with newsprint all over him. Just so you know I wasn't raised in a middle class kinda home.
Trickie
trickie
Trickie
trickie
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 04, 2007 01:46PM
TRICKIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I grew up in Cleveland in the middle of the city.
> I attended catholic grade school and the
> population of that school was probably one third
> black. Also our class size was huge - over 40
> kids per class. I do not remember discipline
> problems like we have today. We did have the
> occasional fight on the playground but the nuns
> took care of the ofenders swiftly and firmly
> without parents coming in screaming "racism" or
> anyone appealing a punishment. By the way, this
> was in the early 50's because I was born in 1947.
> Oh and most of the kids were from blue collar
> families. My dad was a pressman for the Plain
> Dealer. My mom cleaned diapers at a diaper
> factory. We alos had kids who were not as
> proficiant in English ( mostly Polish and latvians
> and some Mexicans who worked in the canning
> factories) . But they all learned English without
> ESL teachers. Oh and we had plenty of kids who
> weren't real smart too. There was no GT just
> reading groups and math groups. And we learned
> right from wrong even though our parents worked
> hard. Many women were working outside the home.
> My neighborhood was not the typical Ozzie and
> Harriet one. It was after WW2 and women had been
> working at low paying jobs while the men were away
> at war. My mom was not a soccer mom and my dad c
> ame home with newsprint all over him. Just so you
> know I wasn't raised in a middle class kinda
> home.
>
> Trickie
>
> trickie
this is relavent, why? think anyone can say whatever they want here without explaining their self. Although, your story does sound like a good start for another Frank McCourt novel.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I grew up in Cleveland in the middle of the city.
> I attended catholic grade school and the
> population of that school was probably one third
> black. Also our class size was huge - over 40
> kids per class. I do not remember discipline
> problems like we have today. We did have the
> occasional fight on the playground but the nuns
> took care of the ofenders swiftly and firmly
> without parents coming in screaming "racism" or
> anyone appealing a punishment. By the way, this
> was in the early 50's because I was born in 1947.
> Oh and most of the kids were from blue collar
> families. My dad was a pressman for the Plain
> Dealer. My mom cleaned diapers at a diaper
> factory. We alos had kids who were not as
> proficiant in English ( mostly Polish and latvians
> and some Mexicans who worked in the canning
> factories) . But they all learned English without
> ESL teachers. Oh and we had plenty of kids who
> weren't real smart too. There was no GT just
> reading groups and math groups. And we learned
> right from wrong even though our parents worked
> hard. Many women were working outside the home.
> My neighborhood was not the typical Ozzie and
> Harriet one. It was after WW2 and women had been
> working at low paying jobs while the men were away
> at war. My mom was not a soccer mom and my dad c
> ame home with newsprint all over him. Just so you
> know I wasn't raised in a middle class kinda
> home.
>
> Trickie
>
> trickie
this is relavent, why? think anyone can say whatever they want here without explaining their self. Although, your story does sound like a good start for another Frank McCourt novel.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 04, 2007 01:54PM
I agree about GT centers being at the base schools. What is the cost of administering the GT program? What with administration, bussing, etc it must be huge. And it creates a matrix of elementary, middle, and high schools so that kids need to make a whole new set of friends every few years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
just a kid here
()
Date: October 04, 2007 02:29PM
Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolutely correct again, Trickie. Parochial
> schools in this area are very diverse and yet
> produce more disciplined and better prepared
> students. Like you said, scholarships are
> available to many. It amazes me what a better job
> they do than the county and with FAR fewer
> dollars.
Have you looked at the cost for non-catholics at catholic schools? No way we can afford it. Private schools in this area are off the charts. My family makes a good living, probably middle income area. No way we could swing it. So it really is not a option for a lot of people.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolutely correct again, Trickie. Parochial
> schools in this area are very diverse and yet
> produce more disciplined and better prepared
> students. Like you said, scholarships are
> available to many. It amazes me what a better job
> they do than the county and with FAR fewer
> dollars.
Have you looked at the cost for non-catholics at catholic schools? No way we can afford it. Private schools in this area are off the charts. My family makes a good living, probably middle income area. No way we could swing it. So it really is not a option for a lot of people.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Indeed
()
Date: October 04, 2007 02:37PM
I have looked, and I know for a fact that I was able to save money every month when I transitioned my kids from daycare to catholic grade school. For non-Catholics, tuition ranges from $3-6K/yr. Conversely, I was spending $12K/yr at a group daycare facility. We too, are by no means rich, and sacrifices need to be made, but it is worth it to not send the kids to public schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
?
()
Date: October 04, 2007 03:12PM
Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have looked, and I know for a fact that I was
> able to save money every month when I transitioned
> my kids from daycare to catholic grade school.
> For non-Catholics, tuition ranges from $3-6K/yr.
> Conversely, I was spending $12K/yr at a group
> daycare facility. We too, are by no means rich,
> and sacrifices need to be made, but it is worth it
> to not send the kids to public schools.
How would this help the students/community of Oakton?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have looked, and I know for a fact that I was
> able to save money every month when I transitioned
> my kids from daycare to catholic grade school.
> For non-Catholics, tuition ranges from $3-6K/yr.
> Conversely, I was spending $12K/yr at a group
> daycare facility. We too, are by no means rich,
> and sacrifices need to be made, but it is worth it
> to not send the kids to public schools.
How would this help the students/community of Oakton?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Indeed
()
Date: October 04, 2007 03:22PM
It is about options. South Lakes is not the only alternative. Many of those complaining have alternatives. This is one of them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 04, 2007 04:19PM
GT centers at base schools? Please - the GT centers are the School System's best way of papering over problems, or put more charitably, providing an otherwise troubled school with an influx of well prepared students and participating parents. Let's be honest - think Crossfield really suffers from a sizable tranche of GT kids going to Hunters Woods? No. But you think Hunters Woods really enthusiastically wants the white and asian GT kids that attend there? You bet they do - and if they didn't come there, the school would have many more significant problems and attract much more negative attention - a death knell for administrators. These GT centers are the County's subtle way of doing what Louisville and Seattle did - but became frustrated in so doing - assigning students by race to parse out the valuable educational commodities known as white and asian students to "even up" the achievement levels and environments amongst all schools? Agree with it? Not really. In fact, I agree with you, Pyramid Parent - neighborhood schools generally work best. But will the schools let go of the GT center approach? Heck no - they desperately need it - and know that they are fortunate to live in one of the most educated areas in the country, wherein they can entice white and asian GT students to travel to GT centers. Again, I would love to see someone like Stu Gibson be open about this - but that will not happen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 04, 2007 05:29PM
Yes, all of that is true. If the county would not cluster affordable housing in specific areas, they could avoid a lot of these problems and make school operations much simplified and cheaper. Maybe then we could have smaller class sizes, which is probably the most important component of a good school.
Why does the clustering occur in the first place? It is known to be a bad idea for these very reasons.
Why does the clustering occur in the first place? It is known to be a bad idea for these very reasons.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 04, 2007 06:13PM
Why does the clustering occur in the first place?
I thought we went over this. It's because very vocal groups in Reston (reston interfaith, reston citizens assoc, island walk etc.) demand it. I know from your previous post you don't think it's a good idea, but a vocal majority in Reston does think it's a good idea.
I thought we went over this. It's because very vocal groups in Reston (reston interfaith, reston citizens assoc, island walk etc.) demand it. I know from your previous post you don't think it's a good idea, but a vocal majority in Reston does think it's a good idea.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 04, 2007 06:22PM
There is a big cluster in Alexandria, and smaller clusters in Westfield and Chantilly. How did that happen?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Zen
()
Date: October 04, 2007 06:57PM
Ladies and germs
Brevity is the soul to wit.
Brevity is the soul to wit.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 04, 2007 07:35PM
Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have looked, and I know for a fact that I was
> able to save money every month when I transitioned
> my kids from daycare to catholic grade school.
> For non-Catholics, tuition ranges from $3-6K/yr.
>
There is no place in No VA or DC for that matter that offers a HIGH SCHOOL education for $3-6K, what little world do you live in? We shouldn't be looking for options. The school board and county should be. They work for us. Why would we pay between $12K - $24K to send our kids to private school so that these county employees don't have to do their jobs?!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have looked, and I know for a fact that I was
> able to save money every month when I transitioned
> my kids from daycare to catholic grade school.
> For non-Catholics, tuition ranges from $3-6K/yr.
>
There is no place in No VA or DC for that matter that offers a HIGH SCHOOL education for $3-6K, what little world do you live in? We shouldn't be looking for options. The school board and county should be. They work for us. Why would we pay between $12K - $24K to send our kids to private school so that these county employees don't have to do their jobs?!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
?
()
Date: October 04, 2007 07:39PM
Amen!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Indeed
()
Date: October 04, 2007 09:04PM
I live in the world where people read posts before responding. I said GRADE SCHOOL. For High School, your numbers are still off. The prices range from $7800 to $13000 for the three catholic high schools that would service Fairfax County. Still less than what the average Fairfax citizen pays for daycare. Why would you pay? Simple, you give a damn about your kids. If you are going to relay on county employees doing their jobs, that is the true little dream world!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
thinker
()
Date: October 04, 2007 09:43PM
Indeed, why are you paying for day care for high schoolers, are they that stupid? If so maybe they would fit in at south lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Indeed
()
Date: October 04, 2007 09:52PM
thinker,
what an ironic handle. I suggest you learn how to read. Nowhere in my post does it say that I pay daycare for HSers. My children are elementary aged. My point was that if most families can pay for daycare in the area, they can afford catholic HS. I really hope you were just making a feeble attempt at humor.
what an ironic handle. I suggest you learn how to read. Nowhere in my post does it say that I pay daycare for HSers. My children are elementary aged. My point was that if most families can pay for daycare in the area, they can afford catholic HS. I really hope you were just making a feeble attempt at humor.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 05, 2007 01:32AM
>>>>Domenech administratively boundary changed a massive Toll Brothers development from Langley to South lakes.<<<< REALLY??? Langley students, a massive number were quietly placed in South Lakes and no one objected???? That's hard to believe.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 05, 2007 01:37AM
>>>>Now it's not unusual to have kids in a classroom with emotional problems, developmental problems (IQ's of 80 or less) various learning disabliites ( ex. ADD, or reading problems) or severe behavior problems ( Opposotional Defiance Disorder, anger management problems, criminal behavior, sociopaths, psychopaths etc) In former years, these kids were in special classes or special schools like Bryant. In addition, chronic bad kids were expelled. We can't expell kids any more: we just move them to another school.<<<<
Is there still ANYONE who doesn't get why parents want their children in GT centers, Honors classes, and AP classes? And why they don't want their children in South Lakes?
Children who want to learn should be in classes with other children who want to learn. They shouldn't lose out on an education because of another failed liberal experiment, throwing everyone in together. It's just not fair to those kids who actually want to learn something and hope to have a decent future.
Is there still ANYONE who doesn't get why parents want their children in GT centers, Honors classes, and AP classes? And why they don't want their children in South Lakes?
Children who want to learn should be in classes with other children who want to learn. They shouldn't lose out on an education because of another failed liberal experiment, throwing everyone in together. It's just not fair to those kids who actually want to learn something and hope to have a decent future.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 05, 2007 01:40AM
If people in Reston didn't want more low incoming housing, they wouldn't continue to vote for Kathy Hudgins, the biggest supporter on the board of supervisors for more low income housing in Reston. They wouldn't vote for Connelly either who is more than happy to have the low income housing in Reston and not in his neighborhood.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 05, 2007 08:42AM
Neen,
TRICKIE's description about kids with problems in the classroom wasn't referring to South Lakes, but FFX schools in general.
Please don't take it out of context and ascribe it to South Lakes.
I agree about Cathy Hudgins/Connolly and that's why I'm voting for Huhtala and Connolly's opponent.
TRICKIE's description about kids with problems in the classroom wasn't referring to South Lakes, but FFX schools in general.
Please don't take it out of context and ascribe it to South Lakes.
I agree about Cathy Hudgins/Connolly and that's why I'm voting for Huhtala and Connolly's opponent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 05, 2007 09:18AM
Indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thinker,
>
> what an ironic handle. I suggest you learn how to
> read. Nowhere in my post does it say that I pay
> daycare for HSers. My children are elementary
> aged. My point was that if most families can pay
> for daycare in the area, they can afford catholic
> HS. I really hope you were just making a feeble
> attempt at humor.
No we are not attempting to be humorous, just pointing out how stupid your idea is. Not all of us are Catholic or want to attend Catholic HS. To truly consider your "option" it would be fair to list the price range for all private schools which is 13K-24K+. You make incredilby ignorant leaps to assume that all Fairfax County residents can afford daycare and therefore can afford private high school as an alternative.
-------------------------------------------------------
> thinker,
>
> what an ironic handle. I suggest you learn how to
> read. Nowhere in my post does it say that I pay
> daycare for HSers. My children are elementary
> aged. My point was that if most families can pay
> for daycare in the area, they can afford catholic
> HS. I really hope you were just making a feeble
> attempt at humor.
No we are not attempting to be humorous, just pointing out how stupid your idea is. Not all of us are Catholic or want to attend Catholic HS. To truly consider your "option" it would be fair to list the price range for all private schools which is 13K-24K+. You make incredilby ignorant leaps to assume that all Fairfax County residents can afford daycare and therefore can afford private high school as an alternative.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 05, 2007 10:44AM
Neen:
Your post underscores what frustrates me about many of these comments about SLHS. The overwhelming majority of parents and students at SLHS are smart, well-adjusted, and committed to learning. I see it every day.
I'd ask my eldest and his friends (white, asian, black and hispanic) -- all SLHS/Hughes grads and most successful at Honors, GT, and IB -- to respond to your comment about their apparent "[lost] education because of another failed liberal experiment, throwing everyone in together" and the supposed unfairness to "kids who actually want to learn something and hope to have a decent future." However, they're probably too busy learning and having fun at the various universities and service academies around the country where they attend and excel.
I "get" why all parents, including me, want an excellent learning environment for their kids. Your post implies that a parent who allows their child to attend SLHS is negligent, and that kids who go there are doomed to fail. That is simply and demonstrably ridiculous.
Your post underscores what frustrates me about many of these comments about SLHS. The overwhelming majority of parents and students at SLHS are smart, well-adjusted, and committed to learning. I see it every day.
I'd ask my eldest and his friends (white, asian, black and hispanic) -- all SLHS/Hughes grads and most successful at Honors, GT, and IB -- to respond to your comment about their apparent "[lost] education because of another failed liberal experiment, throwing everyone in together" and the supposed unfairness to "kids who actually want to learn something and hope to have a decent future." However, they're probably too busy learning and having fun at the various universities and service academies around the country where they attend and excel.
I "get" why all parents, including me, want an excellent learning environment for their kids. Your post implies that a parent who allows their child to attend SLHS is negligent, and that kids who go there are doomed to fail. That is simply and demonstrably ridiculous.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 05, 2007 12:25PM
Padre,
I know what you mean about kids from other schools thinking my kids deserve a purple heart for going to SL schools. My kids laugh about it too--I think that it even gives them a kind of "dangerous" cache with their friends that they enjoy. :)
I know what you mean about kids from other schools thinking my kids deserve a purple heart for going to SL schools. My kids laugh about it too--I think that it even gives them a kind of "dangerous" cache with their friends that they enjoy. :)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
voter
()
Date: October 05, 2007 12:34PM
I hope that the candidates come out with thier view prior to the election so we can make proper decision by what they are saying in the press. Can anyone list the candidates and the views regarding this topic. I have put calls in to some of the candidates offices but have gotten the typical reply that they will get back to me or the issues are being discussed. If they are being discussed, with whom?
I for one want my children to finish HS where they are now and I also want my others (HS next year) to go where thier siblings go. I also don't want my home to be redistricted (sp) because it will hurt financially. That is reality people, home values are up for CHS/OHS/WHS not SLHS. I don't give a hoot about black/white/asian/etc... it is about the quality of education and value of my home and property.
GET OUT THE VOTE!!!! HELL NO WE WON'T GO!!! (to a different school that is)!!
I for one want my children to finish HS where they are now and I also want my others (HS next year) to go where thier siblings go. I also don't want my home to be redistricted (sp) because it will hurt financially. That is reality people, home values are up for CHS/OHS/WHS not SLHS. I don't give a hoot about black/white/asian/etc... it is about the quality of education and value of my home and property.
GET OUT THE VOTE!!!! HELL NO WE WON'T GO!!! (to a different school that is)!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 05, 2007 12:50PM
As far as I know, no school board candidate is against redistricting altogether. And no candidate will say they favor Oakton vs. Madison to be redistricted or anything like that. I thought current students would be grandfathered, but don't know that for sure.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 05, 2007 01:33PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>Domenech administratively boundary changed a
> massive Toll Brothers development from Langley to
> South lakes.<<<< REALLY??? Langley students, a
> massive number were quietly placed in South Lakes
> and no one objected???? That's hard to believe.
It was Great Falls Crossing at the intersection of 7 and Baron Cameron. Domenech sent them from Forestville to Forest Edge [Reston but closer to Langley driving than are lots of the Langley area]. They did it while some houses had already been sold maybe in 1999 and others were being built. On the Hunter Mill side an older development [Colvin's Glen now is at Colvin Run] hooks into Hunter Mill and 7 sandwiched between what I guess will be the new South Lakes attendance area. Google map Cobble Pond Way Vienna Va...that general area goes to three high schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>Domenech administratively boundary changed a
> massive Toll Brothers development from Langley to
> South lakes.<<<< REALLY??? Langley students, a
> massive number were quietly placed in South Lakes
> and no one objected???? That's hard to believe.
It was Great Falls Crossing at the intersection of 7 and Baron Cameron. Domenech sent them from Forestville to Forest Edge [Reston but closer to Langley driving than are lots of the Langley area]. They did it while some houses had already been sold maybe in 1999 and others were being built. On the Hunter Mill side an older development [Colvin's Glen now is at Colvin Run] hooks into Hunter Mill and 7 sandwiched between what I guess will be the new South Lakes attendance area. Google map Cobble Pond Way Vienna Va...that general area goes to three high schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 05, 2007 01:50PM
Reposting from an earlier post. Litzenberger faces incumbant Kathy Smith. Not a peep from Kathy.
John Litzenberer's position on redistricting...
Boundary Changes (from his web site [www.coachlitz.com])
Boundary changes are one of the most contentious and polarizing processes a school system has to go through. My position is that the parents who have their children in the school system, plus pay the taxes that help fund the school system, must have the largest say in how the boundaries are realigned. The whole process, from the compiling of statistics, to determining costs and to finally presenting a proposal MUST be totally transparent. This not only is the fairest way to approach this problem, but the only way.
When the current school board voted to delay any discussion or release of data until after the Fall 2007 election, it flunked the transparency test. This created distrust, anxiety and overall concern that the boundary process was rigged in advance. When I asked Mr. Jack Dale, School Superintendent, about the delay at a Strategic Governance forum, several incumbents jumped all over me for asking the question. They then cut me off before Mr. Dale had an opportunity to answer. Consequently, I feel the boundary process as it stands today appears to be unfair.
As a point of reference, when my second daughter was in school, she went to a different school every year for five years in a row between fourth and eight grades. It was during this period that I organized the parents, came up with our own plan, and went to the school board and then the county board of supervisors to present a more reasonable plan. The parents’ plan was the one ultimately adopted. I think this type of tried and proven technique is the best approach to a boundary issue.
John Litzenberer's position on redistricting...
Boundary Changes (from his web site [www.coachlitz.com])
Boundary changes are one of the most contentious and polarizing processes a school system has to go through. My position is that the parents who have their children in the school system, plus pay the taxes that help fund the school system, must have the largest say in how the boundaries are realigned. The whole process, from the compiling of statistics, to determining costs and to finally presenting a proposal MUST be totally transparent. This not only is the fairest way to approach this problem, but the only way.
When the current school board voted to delay any discussion or release of data until after the Fall 2007 election, it flunked the transparency test. This created distrust, anxiety and overall concern that the boundary process was rigged in advance. When I asked Mr. Jack Dale, School Superintendent, about the delay at a Strategic Governance forum, several incumbents jumped all over me for asking the question. They then cut me off before Mr. Dale had an opportunity to answer. Consequently, I feel the boundary process as it stands today appears to be unfair.
As a point of reference, when my second daughter was in school, she went to a different school every year for five years in a row between fourth and eight grades. It was during this period that I organized the parents, came up with our own plan, and went to the school board and then the county board of supervisors to present a more reasonable plan. The parents’ plan was the one ultimately adopted. I think this type of tried and proven technique is the best approach to a boundary issue.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 05, 2007 02:18PM
Christine Arakelian, who is running against Stu Gibson for Hunter Mill, has a similar view on redistricting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
voter
()
Date: October 05, 2007 02:45PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Christine Arakelian, who is running against Stu
> Gibson for Hunter Mill, has a similar view on
> redistricting.
says who??
-------------------------------------------------------
> Christine Arakelian, who is running against Stu
> Gibson for Hunter Mill, has a similar view on
> redistricting.
says who??
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 05, 2007 03:00PM
http://blogs.arakelian.com/christine/?p=3
Responses to “Vote for Christine Arakelian - School Board Hunter Mill District”
What is your position on the school board redistricting proposal currently underway for Fairfax county and the potential impacts to the Hunter Mill District?
Hi,
Thank you for your question. Obviously this is a key concern to many people in our District. There are valid points on all sides, so this doesn’t make things any easier.
Having said this, this is what I think at this point.
1. It seems apparent that there are indeed significant population differences between schools that are posing difficulties in terms of allowing all students in the Western portion of the County to receive the same level of curriculum, electives and extracurriculars. Westfields is overpopulated, for example, and common areas such as the cafeteria and gym were not build to accomodate the number of students currently there. South Lakes is underpopulated to the tune of approximately 700 students (i.e., the school has capacity for approximately 2000).
Please note that the South Lakes renovation is not adding seats. It simply is renovating the space.
2. In fairness to all the schools, these population differences need to be addressed.
3. There are different ways to solve the undercapacity in South Lakes, including magnet programs in liberal arts or science at the caliber of TJ, selective (i.e. competitive) IB programs etc… (in other schools, IB and AP are open enrollment). Many other school districts have something like this, and they receive wide parental support. I would support such an initiative, which would reduce the need for redistricting, but not eliminate it altogether. I am trying to bring parents together to support something such as this right now.
The major issue I have with the way Fairfax County redistricts is how little they listen to parents and the communities, and how they are not necessarily open to parent-generated solutions that may receive broader support in their communities. It is very important that all parents have a voice at the table this Fall.
4. Curriculum difference must be addressed — i.e. IB vs. AP programs. Though both IP and AB are excellent, there are differences, and I don’t believe IB or AP is necessarily suitable for every child. I believe both AP and IB should be on offer at South Lakes if there is not a magnet program at the school.
5. Some people have asked me if I support a morotorium. I am told that it is impossible to stop the process once it starts in November, so I don’t believe this is an option. I will tell you, however, that I am very data driven, so it is very very important to me that the data be solid and correct to ensure we are making the right decisions. I will not simply push ahead with a redistricting if the data or underlying analysis is incorrect.
Given how little information we have right now, it is difficult to say what staff will come back with after the election regarding options for redistricting.
6. Regardless of where any child attends school, if I am elected, each and every single one will be excellent. I am very detailed orientated and listen to parents, so I want to know what is going on and will actively seek out your input. I can guarantee you that each and every school in our District will be discussed with the Superintendent so that problems or issues are caught early on, and we can support the many positive things that are benefiting our kids in the schools.
I hope I answered your questions. Please post again if you’d like more detail on anything I said — sometimes it is difficult to address every possible question or concern that arises in a redistricting process.
Thanks,
Christine
Responses to “Vote for Christine Arakelian - School Board Hunter Mill District”
What is your position on the school board redistricting proposal currently underway for Fairfax county and the potential impacts to the Hunter Mill District?
Hi,
Thank you for your question. Obviously this is a key concern to many people in our District. There are valid points on all sides, so this doesn’t make things any easier.
Having said this, this is what I think at this point.
1. It seems apparent that there are indeed significant population differences between schools that are posing difficulties in terms of allowing all students in the Western portion of the County to receive the same level of curriculum, electives and extracurriculars. Westfields is overpopulated, for example, and common areas such as the cafeteria and gym were not build to accomodate the number of students currently there. South Lakes is underpopulated to the tune of approximately 700 students (i.e., the school has capacity for approximately 2000).
Please note that the South Lakes renovation is not adding seats. It simply is renovating the space.
2. In fairness to all the schools, these population differences need to be addressed.
3. There are different ways to solve the undercapacity in South Lakes, including magnet programs in liberal arts or science at the caliber of TJ, selective (i.e. competitive) IB programs etc… (in other schools, IB and AP are open enrollment). Many other school districts have something like this, and they receive wide parental support. I would support such an initiative, which would reduce the need for redistricting, but not eliminate it altogether. I am trying to bring parents together to support something such as this right now.
The major issue I have with the way Fairfax County redistricts is how little they listen to parents and the communities, and how they are not necessarily open to parent-generated solutions that may receive broader support in their communities. It is very important that all parents have a voice at the table this Fall.
4. Curriculum difference must be addressed — i.e. IB vs. AP programs. Though both IP and AB are excellent, there are differences, and I don’t believe IB or AP is necessarily suitable for every child. I believe both AP and IB should be on offer at South Lakes if there is not a magnet program at the school.
5. Some people have asked me if I support a morotorium. I am told that it is impossible to stop the process once it starts in November, so I don’t believe this is an option. I will tell you, however, that I am very data driven, so it is very very important to me that the data be solid and correct to ensure we are making the right decisions. I will not simply push ahead with a redistricting if the data or underlying analysis is incorrect.
Given how little information we have right now, it is difficult to say what staff will come back with after the election regarding options for redistricting.
6. Regardless of where any child attends school, if I am elected, each and every single one will be excellent. I am very detailed orientated and listen to parents, so I want to know what is going on and will actively seek out your input. I can guarantee you that each and every school in our District will be discussed with the Superintendent so that problems or issues are caught early on, and we can support the many positive things that are benefiting our kids in the schools.
I hope I answered your questions. Please post again if you’d like more detail on anything I said — sometimes it is difficult to address every possible question or concern that arises in a redistricting process.
Thanks,
Christine
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 05, 2007 03:18PM
Arakelian says she was told a process cannot stop? In 2006-07 FCPS stopped the boundary process moving kids from South County to the newly renovated with additions Lake Braddock. The severe overcrowding at South County is costing the taxpayers a lot of money while delaying filling South Lakes will not...those people expect an entire new school - akin to screaming for Baron Cameron secondary or West Oakton.
There should be a county wide boundary process in 2008-09 after the work is done by the GT Center Middle School and Transportation Committees. Most people will stay where they are anyway. There should be a work stop and no new commencing on any secondary additional capacity.
There should be a county wide boundary process in 2008-09 after the work is done by the GT Center Middle School and Transportation Committees. Most people will stay where they are anyway. There should be a work stop and no new commencing on any secondary additional capacity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
FHHS Alum
()
Date: October 05, 2007 05:25PM
Good luck. They're impervious to logic and probably have an agenda that you are unaware of. Listen to my story and learn ...
I was a graduate of Fort Hunt HS, a very successful and close-knit school in the Mt. Vernon district. One of the things it was noted for was the ability for a very large percentage of the students to walk to school. It excelled in many areas and was the centerpiece of a rich neighborhood culture. (Maybe that was the real problem - it was considered a "rich" neighborhood. Although it was middle class by any standard, it didn't have a chance against the onslaught of political correctness, where an acceptable level of token diversity is mandatory. And, although it had a representative cross-section of community diversity, it probably wasn't diverse enough to satisfy the PC crowd.) Anyway, one day, the county decided that Fort Hunt HS needed to be "consolidated" with its arch rival, Groveton HS, because "enrollment was declining." Of course, this caused huge controversy. No one liked the idea including the Groveton community, which had a rich culture of their own. No matter, in 1985 it was done. No sooner had they built a new facility and consolidated than they had to add on to the new facility because, lo and behold, enrollment rose! (So much for the "declining enrollment" rationale given in the first place. But, in 1985, anyone with half a brain could've predicted that!)
So, bottom line take-away here is: don't bother with reason; find the PC angles and work them.
Oh, one more word of caution ... Oddly, nothing "soft" seemed to matter to the PC crowd, either. In 2007 I understand why this was so. But, in 1985 this baffled me. Those arguments that were less quantifiable than enrollments and dollars - community, excellence, culture, etc. - the things you would expect to register with the PC crowd, didn't faze them. This ran counter to my understanding of their inclinations until I realised that they only care about the soft things if the fundamental PC criteria have been met. I.e., "Meet your diversity quotas, then we can talk about community, excellence, and culture." So, if your culture doesn't happen to conform to their notion of what it should be you're out of luck. Another lesson learned.
I'm not sure what the agenda is in this day and age. But, I can assure you that there is one. And more than likely it has something to do with social engineering and political correctness. (After all, if these people really cared about kids they'd be teaching.)
Good luck!
I was a graduate of Fort Hunt HS, a very successful and close-knit school in the Mt. Vernon district. One of the things it was noted for was the ability for a very large percentage of the students to walk to school. It excelled in many areas and was the centerpiece of a rich neighborhood culture. (Maybe that was the real problem - it was considered a "rich" neighborhood. Although it was middle class by any standard, it didn't have a chance against the onslaught of political correctness, where an acceptable level of token diversity is mandatory. And, although it had a representative cross-section of community diversity, it probably wasn't diverse enough to satisfy the PC crowd.) Anyway, one day, the county decided that Fort Hunt HS needed to be "consolidated" with its arch rival, Groveton HS, because "enrollment was declining." Of course, this caused huge controversy. No one liked the idea including the Groveton community, which had a rich culture of their own. No matter, in 1985 it was done. No sooner had they built a new facility and consolidated than they had to add on to the new facility because, lo and behold, enrollment rose! (So much for the "declining enrollment" rationale given in the first place. But, in 1985, anyone with half a brain could've predicted that!)
So, bottom line take-away here is: don't bother with reason; find the PC angles and work them.
Oh, one more word of caution ... Oddly, nothing "soft" seemed to matter to the PC crowd, either. In 2007 I understand why this was so. But, in 1985 this baffled me. Those arguments that were less quantifiable than enrollments and dollars - community, excellence, culture, etc. - the things you would expect to register with the PC crowd, didn't faze them. This ran counter to my understanding of their inclinations until I realised that they only care about the soft things if the fundamental PC criteria have been met. I.e., "Meet your diversity quotas, then we can talk about community, excellence, and culture." So, if your culture doesn't happen to conform to their notion of what it should be you're out of luck. Another lesson learned.
I'm not sure what the agenda is in this day and age. But, I can assure you that there is one. And more than likely it has something to do with social engineering and political correctness. (After all, if these people really cared about kids they'd be teaching.)
Good luck!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: October 05, 2007 08:18PM
FHHS Alum
What ever happened to that General's son?
Gerry
What ever happened to that General's son?
Gerry
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 06, 2007 01:22AM
The School board will never do the necessary total boundary changes for the county. Mt Vernon will be 1,000 under enrolled within a few years. Marshall has been under enrolled for a least 20 years and nothing will be done.
The school board has decided that there will be NO discussions of boundaries before the election so that they can get their current school board members, Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith, re elected. Both would lose if the voters were aware of what they are going to do to their schools.
Let's face it, our children are used in FCPS for their political agendas. Nevermind that there is NO evidence that they have EVER worked, EVER improved the education of ANY child. No matter. They're liberals. Reality doesn't enter the picture. They FEEL their crazy experiments should work so our students keep paying for them.
The school board has decided that there will be NO discussions of boundaries before the election so that they can get their current school board members, Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith, re elected. Both would lose if the voters were aware of what they are going to do to their schools.
Let's face it, our children are used in FCPS for their political agendas. Nevermind that there is NO evidence that they have EVER worked, EVER improved the education of ANY child. No matter. They're liberals. Reality doesn't enter the picture. They FEEL their crazy experiments should work so our students keep paying for them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: October 06, 2007 08:10AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Let's face it, our children are used in FCPS for
> their political agendas. Nevermind that there is
> NO evidence that they have EVER worked, EVER
> improved the education of ANY child. No matter.
> They're liberals. Reality doesn't enter the
> picture. They FEEL their crazy experiments should
> work so our students keep paying for them.
I agree with your comments. Unfortunately, the Board is not consistent with their agenda. They let some students and PARENTS bail to other pyramids.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Let's face it, our children are used in FCPS for
> their political agendas. Nevermind that there is
> NO evidence that they have EVER worked, EVER
> improved the education of ANY child. No matter.
> They're liberals. Reality doesn't enter the
> picture. They FEEL their crazy experiments should
> work so our students keep paying for them.
I agree with your comments. Unfortunately, the Board is not consistent with their agenda. They let some students and PARENTS bail to other pyramids.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: October 06, 2007 07:02PM
hope that the candidates come out with thier view prior to the election so we can make proper decision by what they are saying in the press. Can anyone list the candidates and the views regarding this topic. I have put calls in to some of the candidates offices but have gotten the typical reply that they will get back to me or the issues are being discussed. If they are being discussed, with whom?
>>>
www.stopRD.org is a site where you can get some information. I believe a political action committee has been set up for the purpose of researching candidates views before the November election.
>>>
www.stopRD.org is a site where you can get some information. I believe a political action committee has been set up for the purpose of researching candidates views before the November election.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 07, 2007 06:51PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hope that the candidates come out with thier view
> prior to the election so we can make proper
> decision by what they are saying in the press. Can
> anyone list the candidates and the views regarding
> this topic. I have put calls in to some of the
> candidates offices but have gotten the typical
> reply that they will get back to me or the issues
> are being discussed. If they are being discussed,
> with whom?
> >>>
>
> www.stopRD.org is a site where you can get some
> information. I believe a political action
> committee has been set up for the purpose of
> researching candidates views before the November
> election.
I am contemplating voting NO on the bond referendum. Why? Read Tisdadt's document on what they have been doing not what the general public thinks they mean by renovations.
The public gets some numbers and they id schools or other locations but we have no idea exactly WHAT they are doing and if it is necessary. It has not been equitable whereby all schools are upgraded with mechanicals, facelifts/new bath fixtures, etc.
Some schools get modulars and the core facility is inadequate. Others get more than they need or additions to move people from where they live.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hope that the candidates come out with thier view
> prior to the election so we can make proper
> decision by what they are saying in the press. Can
> anyone list the candidates and the views regarding
> this topic. I have put calls in to some of the
> candidates offices but have gotten the typical
> reply that they will get back to me or the issues
> are being discussed. If they are being discussed,
> with whom?
> >>>
>
> www.stopRD.org is a site where you can get some
> information. I believe a political action
> committee has been set up for the purpose of
> researching candidates views before the November
> election.
I am contemplating voting NO on the bond referendum. Why? Read Tisdadt's document on what they have been doing not what the general public thinks they mean by renovations.
The public gets some numbers and they id schools or other locations but we have no idea exactly WHAT they are doing and if it is necessary. It has not been equitable whereby all schools are upgraded with mechanicals, facelifts/new bath fixtures, etc.
Some schools get modulars and the core facility is inadequate. Others get more than they need or additions to move people from where they live.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 07, 2007 11:47PM
Gerrymandering said:
>>>I agree with your comments. Unfortunately, the Board is not consistent with their agenda. They let some students and PARENTS bail to other pyramids.<<<
Well, yes, they're liberals, so some people are more equal than others.
Now people who never signed on to the liberal experiment that is Reston, will have to pay the price of that failed experiment and send their kids to Reston schools. That just doesn't seem right.
Langley high school is getting a new addition "bricks and mortar" for 16 new classrooms. That came out of the bond in 2003. I think it was $60 million. No consideration was ever given to redistricting those 600 over flow students to schools that are closer to the homes of some students AND under enrolled, like South Lakes and Marshall.
Again the question remains, why are Langley students ALWAYS immune from redistricting, no matter how much it cost taxpayers?
>>>I agree with your comments. Unfortunately, the Board is not consistent with their agenda. They let some students and PARENTS bail to other pyramids.<<<
Well, yes, they're liberals, so some people are more equal than others.
Now people who never signed on to the liberal experiment that is Reston, will have to pay the price of that failed experiment and send their kids to Reston schools. That just doesn't seem right.
Langley high school is getting a new addition "bricks and mortar" for 16 new classrooms. That came out of the bond in 2003. I think it was $60 million. No consideration was ever given to redistricting those 600 over flow students to schools that are closer to the homes of some students AND under enrolled, like South Lakes and Marshall.
Again the question remains, why are Langley students ALWAYS immune from redistricting, no matter how much it cost taxpayers?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 07, 2007 11:51PM
School board members who support the redistricting, without involving Langley, but including students from Madison, Oakton, Westfield, Chantilly and Herndon:
Stu Gibson
Kathy Smith
Ilrong Moon
Those who think that all the communities should be involved in the discussion and that there may be better alternatives to redistricting:
Christine Arakelian
John Litzenberger
Steve Hunt
Stu Gibson claims that there isn't time to consider other ways to increase enrollment at South Lakes, special magnet programs, etc. The man has had TWELVE YEARS in office to find another way!
Stu Gibson
Kathy Smith
Ilrong Moon
Those who think that all the communities should be involved in the discussion and that there may be better alternatives to redistricting:
Christine Arakelian
John Litzenberger
Steve Hunt
Stu Gibson claims that there isn't time to consider other ways to increase enrollment at South Lakes, special magnet programs, etc. The man has had TWELVE YEARS in office to find another way!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 09, 2007 02:21AM
Sign the petition to stop redistricting. Make them find a way to attract students to South Lakes. Don't make other kids pay the price of their failed experiments.
http://www.stoprd.org/
http://www.petitiononline.com/stopRD/petition.html
http://www.stoprd.org/
http://www.petitiononline.com/stopRD/petition.html
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: October 09, 2007 03:02AM
general musings as i play catch-up to the posts i've missed:
south lakes just got rid of sign language for this school year because no one took it because it didn't garner the interest that the new japanese class has.
there is one corner of vienna that borders reston near sunrise valley elem, where the students there attend. that neighborhood then feeds into langston hughes, and they are provided a south lakes/madison option for high school. former basketball star julian vaughn lives there and attended south lakes.
since when has greatschools.net been the benchmark for academic excellence? i went to nysmith school in herndon, ranked in the top 5 primary schools in the nation when i attended in the late nineties and it is rated a 3 out of 5 stars.
any school with more white and asian (we're talking chinese/japanese/korean, not thai and other less... you know... kind of asians [think: falls church high]) students will do better.
South Lakes: 60% white/asian
Herndon: 70%
Chantilly: 79%
Westfield: 79%
Oakton: 86%
it's a shame that an oakton student tried twice to spell "cougar" and failed
and really its not like anyone who is at oakton or westfield or wherever now is going to pack up and switch schools. it affects incoming freshman in 2008 - the class of 2012
and it hasnt been addressed but what about sports? why do you think south lakes (1460 in '06) and marshall (1370 in '06) lag in athletics?
it probably sucks more actually being catholic than paying extra to go to PVI or oconnell
great falls crossing is full of expensive houses, but it is about an 8-9 minute drive to south lakes. while i do support redistricting into south lakes, it is a pain in the ass to give rides out there when i live near hunters woods. their parents can buy them cars.
i should apologize that nothing is really organized. if you'll all excuse me, i have an ib history essay due in four and a half hours and should probably start writing.
south lakes just got rid of sign language for this school year because no one took it because it didn't garner the interest that the new japanese class has.
there is one corner of vienna that borders reston near sunrise valley elem, where the students there attend. that neighborhood then feeds into langston hughes, and they are provided a south lakes/madison option for high school. former basketball star julian vaughn lives there and attended south lakes.
since when has greatschools.net been the benchmark for academic excellence? i went to nysmith school in herndon, ranked in the top 5 primary schools in the nation when i attended in the late nineties and it is rated a 3 out of 5 stars.
any school with more white and asian (we're talking chinese/japanese/korean, not thai and other less... you know... kind of asians [think: falls church high]) students will do better.
South Lakes: 60% white/asian
Herndon: 70%
Chantilly: 79%
Westfield: 79%
Oakton: 86%
it's a shame that an oakton student tried twice to spell "cougar" and failed
and really its not like anyone who is at oakton or westfield or wherever now is going to pack up and switch schools. it affects incoming freshman in 2008 - the class of 2012
and it hasnt been addressed but what about sports? why do you think south lakes (1460 in '06) and marshall (1370 in '06) lag in athletics?
it probably sucks more actually being catholic than paying extra to go to PVI or oconnell
great falls crossing is full of expensive houses, but it is about an 8-9 minute drive to south lakes. while i do support redistricting into south lakes, it is a pain in the ass to give rides out there when i live near hunters woods. their parents can buy them cars.
i should apologize that nothing is really organized. if you'll all excuse me, i have an ib history essay due in four and a half hours and should probably start writing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 09, 2007 08:03AM
it probably sucks more actually being catholic than paying extra to go to PVI or oconnell
--- says volumes about the value of your diverse environment at South Lakes
--- says volumes about the value of your diverse environment at South Lakes
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 09, 2007 08:32AM
if you think Hunters Woods area to Great Falls Crossing is a pain for rides imagine Langley to Herndon by the bowling alley or those areas west of Rt 7 and Gtown Pike intersection [people from other parts of the county think they're in Sterling and some streets are].
South Lakes got what I consider a rebuild rather than a renovation - auditorium was gutted. How about added square footage while getting a capacity decrease- new art wing? Library altered? What was wrong with that? 2 seating area cafeteria made into one? I liked the old South Lakes cafeteria and so did others. Alot of money was spent and all along Gibson said he was going to fill it and Gibson/Strauss were not going to do any sort of Langley/Herndon/South Lakes boundary domino.
Good to bring up sports. South Lakes and Marshall have football schedules where they play much larger schools. If your kid plays football and pupil places at either one for IB the kid is not in a good situation on the field. Even though it might get more game time and have a highly funded academic program with decent/lower class sizes [IB upper level is good bang for the buck from FCPS], few pupil place. TJ - heard some larger schools run 5th and 6th string for significant parts of the game on the freshman level against the starters [or only players]. Should TJ even have a team?
Ever consider that TJ is do for a renovation and why put base school families through this boundary process? What about not renovating TJ and dividing the program up between the taxpayer funded/renovated South Lakes/Mount Vernon and the also perpetually undercapacity Falls Church? 2 have IB so the few IB pupil placements would also get a bus. The 3 nicely cover various geographic areas of the county and have over 2000 seats. Who would argue but the TJ people? It would be like the GT centers - many were placed strategically to fill up buildings without doing base school boundary changes.
South Lakes got what I consider a rebuild rather than a renovation - auditorium was gutted. How about added square footage while getting a capacity decrease- new art wing? Library altered? What was wrong with that? 2 seating area cafeteria made into one? I liked the old South Lakes cafeteria and so did others. Alot of money was spent and all along Gibson said he was going to fill it and Gibson/Strauss were not going to do any sort of Langley/Herndon/South Lakes boundary domino.
Good to bring up sports. South Lakes and Marshall have football schedules where they play much larger schools. If your kid plays football and pupil places at either one for IB the kid is not in a good situation on the field. Even though it might get more game time and have a highly funded academic program with decent/lower class sizes [IB upper level is good bang for the buck from FCPS], few pupil place. TJ - heard some larger schools run 5th and 6th string for significant parts of the game on the freshman level against the starters [or only players]. Should TJ even have a team?
Ever consider that TJ is do for a renovation and why put base school families through this boundary process? What about not renovating TJ and dividing the program up between the taxpayer funded/renovated South Lakes/Mount Vernon and the also perpetually undercapacity Falls Church? 2 have IB so the few IB pupil placements would also get a bus. The 3 nicely cover various geographic areas of the county and have over 2000 seats. Who would argue but the TJ people? It would be like the GT centers - many were placed strategically to fill up buildings without doing base school boundary changes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Statesman
()
Date: October 09, 2007 09:08AM
Even though Marshall is small they ARE good in sports.
Marshall hoops is actually very good... two years ago the boys went to the state final, last year the girls were 23-5
Marshall football is 4-2 this year, last year 7-3.
Marshall hoops is actually very good... two years ago the boys went to the state final, last year the girls were 23-5
Marshall football is 4-2 this year, last year 7-3.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer on football
()
Date: October 09, 2007 09:54AM
in football you have to have numbers and youth league feeder organizations are helpful. Loudoun has youth leagues where big kids get to play so that experience can translate into a competitive edge for a Stonebridge.
Marshall has a good program and good coaches but does not have enough students to be consistent against larger schools where a high percentage of kids play [ie Madison, Stonebridge]. There is the monster Westfields - might as well have to play nationally ranked Dematha. I heard the prior westfields principal gave a mom a job so he could get a division 1 recruit on the roster without those pesky pupil placement/VHSL rules...and Westfields also got a kid that Butler expelled from South Lakes? Mclean is a small school and Fairfax is building a program:
http://community.digitalsports.com/scripts/p_tm_story.asp?t=411287
Marshall has a good program and good coaches but does not have enough students to be consistent against larger schools where a high percentage of kids play [ie Madison, Stonebridge]. There is the monster Westfields - might as well have to play nationally ranked Dematha. I heard the prior westfields principal gave a mom a job so he could get a division 1 recruit on the roster without those pesky pupil placement/VHSL rules...and Westfields also got a kid that Butler expelled from South Lakes? Mclean is a small school and Fairfax is building a program:
http://community.digitalsports.com/scripts/p_tm_story.asp?t=411287
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
close TJ
()
Date: October 09, 2007 09:59AM
Close TJ and move it in to the newly renovated SLHS. Now move all the SLHS students to Herndon, Madison, Westfield and Oakton. All will be under capacity by 2011 (PER FCPD web site).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Boundary
()
Date: October 09, 2007 02:20PM
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fairfaxfocus/2007/10/enrollment_imbalance_textbooks.html
Here's a public forum to voice your opinion regarding the redistricting issue . It was quite effective with last two FCPS boundary studies. Be polite or the Post will shut it down.
Here's a public forum to voice your opinion regarding the redistricting issue . It was quite effective with last two FCPS boundary studies. Be polite or the Post will shut it down.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: October 09, 2007 07:48PM
Statesman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though Marshall is small they ARE good in
> sports.
>
> Marshall hoops is actually very good... two years
> ago the boys went to the state final, last year
> the girls were 23-5
>
> Marshall football is 4-2 this year, last year 7-3.
I'm with you all the way. Small school, Big Heart. Someday Marshall can be made whole again by bringing back the neighborhoods west of the toll road (i.e. Shouse Village). Go Statesmen!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though Marshall is small they ARE good in
> sports.
>
> Marshall hoops is actually very good... two years
> ago the boys went to the state final, last year
> the girls were 23-5
>
> Marshall football is 4-2 this year, last year 7-3.
I'm with you all the way. Small school, Big Heart. Someday Marshall can be made whole again by bringing back the neighborhoods west of the toll road (i.e. Shouse Village). Go Statesmen!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Opie
()
Date: October 09, 2007 10:40PM
Brian: "it probably sucks more actually being catholic than paying extra to go to PVI or oconnell"
Word: "-- says volumes about the value of your diverse environment at South Lakes"
me: what makes you think Brian isn't Catholic himself?
Word: "-- says volumes about the value of your diverse environment at South Lakes"
me: what makes you think Brian isn't Catholic himself?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 09, 2007 11:48PM
As a South Lakes graduate I have a few things to say to the parents who do not want to send their kids there.
Attending South Lakes was one of the best decisions of my life so far. I come from a fairly wealthy family and my parents looked into a number of schools for all of my siblings including Madison, PVI, OConnell, and some of the prep schools in DC/MD. Eventually, we found that South Lakes was the best choice due to proximity to our house, the IB Program, the smaller sports scene (gives everyone a chance to be a tri-sport athlete while still allowing serious players to shine), and a wonderful faculty. It is true that at one point the South Lakes faculty was not the best. But that has changed. I attended college at a school ranked in the top 30 in the nation and I had no difficulty whatsoever with the work and I credit that to my teachers at South Lakes. In some cases, classes that other students were struggling in, I was able to breeze through due to my SL education. The poor test scores come from students whose home lives do not enforce a good education. Of the students who are of the higher economic classes at south lakes, most obtained SOL and SAT scores just as high or higher than the scores at various other schools mentioned on this board. If your child is doing well at another school,I guarentee they will do as well or better at South Lakes.
South Lakes has an extremely unique culture that you can only truly understand the greatness of if you have gone to school there. And that culture comes from the social and economic diversity of the school. South Lakes does not have "cliques". No one can be labeled a "jock" or a "nerd" or any other stereotypes because the students at south lakes are so dynamic that it is possible that the jock and the nerd are the same person. Groups of friends hang out with other groups of friends and are not mutually exclusive like they are at so many other schools. Races hang out with other races, the wealthy hang out with the not as wealthy, and different class years hang out with each other. Everyone is better for it also. This is because the students have been exposed to other groups and I found that when I got to college, few people were as open and accepting as I was used to at South Lakes (this is also not because I came from a liberal family that taught me to accept others from the start, not that they didnt, but both parents were rebublicans until GWB and it is clear to my siblings and I that it was Reston schools that made us the way we are) The people I know who attended South Lakes are still incredibly close with each other even after having graduated from college. I found in college that I had an attachment to my high school and my hometown friends that I could never see in people who had gone to other schools. It is true that this is not the case for everyone who attends South Lakes but it is a very unique and positive aspect of the school that I hold dear.
With regard to violence, I was witness to a fight or two. But not being involved with the students in the fight, I never felt like I was in any danger. Their problems were with each other, not with me or other students and the fight was stopped by administrators before it had a chance to effect anyone around. The same is true with drugs. The only drug I witnessed in my high school years was marijuana (unlike at other schools where much harder drugs are not unheard of). Even with that, your student is not going to be effected by that anymore than they would at another school.
The renovation has created a state of the art school with all new facilities and a ton of room to accomodate new students. I can already see a change in the demographics of the school and they are sure to continue to change due to the rise in home prices in the area in the past 15 years. The South Lakes Seahawks have a tremendous amount of pride in their school and their community that extends beyond the high school years. I would be a mistake to not send your children there. I can understand if your home school now is closer to your house and I understand that when older siblings have gone to the school and the younger ones want to follow, but if neither of those apply to you, don't write off South Lakes due to reputation. It is false and it is getting even more false everyday.
Attending South Lakes was one of the best decisions of my life so far. I come from a fairly wealthy family and my parents looked into a number of schools for all of my siblings including Madison, PVI, OConnell, and some of the prep schools in DC/MD. Eventually, we found that South Lakes was the best choice due to proximity to our house, the IB Program, the smaller sports scene (gives everyone a chance to be a tri-sport athlete while still allowing serious players to shine), and a wonderful faculty. It is true that at one point the South Lakes faculty was not the best. But that has changed. I attended college at a school ranked in the top 30 in the nation and I had no difficulty whatsoever with the work and I credit that to my teachers at South Lakes. In some cases, classes that other students were struggling in, I was able to breeze through due to my SL education. The poor test scores come from students whose home lives do not enforce a good education. Of the students who are of the higher economic classes at south lakes, most obtained SOL and SAT scores just as high or higher than the scores at various other schools mentioned on this board. If your child is doing well at another school,I guarentee they will do as well or better at South Lakes.
South Lakes has an extremely unique culture that you can only truly understand the greatness of if you have gone to school there. And that culture comes from the social and economic diversity of the school. South Lakes does not have "cliques". No one can be labeled a "jock" or a "nerd" or any other stereotypes because the students at south lakes are so dynamic that it is possible that the jock and the nerd are the same person. Groups of friends hang out with other groups of friends and are not mutually exclusive like they are at so many other schools. Races hang out with other races, the wealthy hang out with the not as wealthy, and different class years hang out with each other. Everyone is better for it also. This is because the students have been exposed to other groups and I found that when I got to college, few people were as open and accepting as I was used to at South Lakes (this is also not because I came from a liberal family that taught me to accept others from the start, not that they didnt, but both parents were rebublicans until GWB and it is clear to my siblings and I that it was Reston schools that made us the way we are) The people I know who attended South Lakes are still incredibly close with each other even after having graduated from college. I found in college that I had an attachment to my high school and my hometown friends that I could never see in people who had gone to other schools. It is true that this is not the case for everyone who attends South Lakes but it is a very unique and positive aspect of the school that I hold dear.
With regard to violence, I was witness to a fight or two. But not being involved with the students in the fight, I never felt like I was in any danger. Their problems were with each other, not with me or other students and the fight was stopped by administrators before it had a chance to effect anyone around. The same is true with drugs. The only drug I witnessed in my high school years was marijuana (unlike at other schools where much harder drugs are not unheard of). Even with that, your student is not going to be effected by that anymore than they would at another school.
The renovation has created a state of the art school with all new facilities and a ton of room to accomodate new students. I can already see a change in the demographics of the school and they are sure to continue to change due to the rise in home prices in the area in the past 15 years. The South Lakes Seahawks have a tremendous amount of pride in their school and their community that extends beyond the high school years. I would be a mistake to not send your children there. I can understand if your home school now is closer to your house and I understand that when older siblings have gone to the school and the younger ones want to follow, but if neither of those apply to you, don't write off South Lakes due to reputation. It is false and it is getting even more false everyday.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 10, 2007 12:16AM
Also,
How dare grown adults on this board belittle the South Lakes and Reston community. Reston was an extreme liberal hotbed in the 70s and 80s. A lot of people move there now without even knowing its liberal history. Reston also happens to be home to wooded lots and lakes which are non-existant in the mcmansion communites that have popped up all over the county. Not everyone in reston is of a lower class than you. Many are probably more wealthy, more established, and obviously enlightened than some of you have indicated you are by your posts.
No one is moving your child because they are white. It just so happens that the areas around reston (and the majority of reston) have white people and few minorities. With regard to property value, who is to say it won't go back up once you and everyone else realize how ridiculous your stereotyping of South Lakes actually is.
Here is a new argument for you: South Lakes does not want your narrowminded, naive ideas ruining a good thing.
How dare grown adults on this board belittle the South Lakes and Reston community. Reston was an extreme liberal hotbed in the 70s and 80s. A lot of people move there now without even knowing its liberal history. Reston also happens to be home to wooded lots and lakes which are non-existant in the mcmansion communites that have popped up all over the county. Not everyone in reston is of a lower class than you. Many are probably more wealthy, more established, and obviously enlightened than some of you have indicated you are by your posts.
No one is moving your child because they are white. It just so happens that the areas around reston (and the majority of reston) have white people and few minorities. With regard to property value, who is to say it won't go back up once you and everyone else realize how ridiculous your stereotyping of South Lakes actually is.
Here is a new argument for you: South Lakes does not want your narrowminded, naive ideas ruining a good thing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 10, 2007 02:05AM
You're right, they won't move rich white kids into South Lakes. In the end, they'll cave and put in more low income kids.
People who didn't sign on to the great liberal experiment, now failed, should not have to pay the price for that failure and send their kids to South Lakes.
People who didn't sign on to the great liberal experiment, now failed, should not have to pay the price for that failure and send their kids to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
sl4life
()
Date: October 10, 2007 02:54AM
what price! i dont understand what your child is going to lose by going to south lakes. if they are getting good test scores now they arent going to all of the sudden become stupid when they get to sl. the only thing different is that they will be exposed to people who are lower income and a different race. are you really that scared of that? are you worried about disruptions? bad influences? you think white middle class kids arent disruptive in class or that they dont make bad decisions? oh but its on a different level when its poor black kids right? not really.
also what is all this about a failed experiment. youre blowing the whole planned community thing way out of proportion. its not like reston is some test lab that blew up and your kids are going to get radiation. most people in reston had nothing to do with it and think reston association is a joke. and guess what. their kids go to south lakes too. have fun shopping and eating at our towncenter while you cry about your kids learning to function productively in a diverse world.
also there is no such thing as a "reston school" all the schools in reston are part of ffx county, have a ffx county curriculum, and some are not even exclusively filled with people from reston (sunrise valley). reston is not some liberal conspiracy test zone anymore (and was it ever really) that is going to teach your kids to save the whales and give money to homeless people on the street. you should listen to the people who actually live there and go to school there instead of looking at numbers and telling each other horror stories about that terrible community down the street. how many of your kids need to get rejected from uva and wm with 1600 or 2400 SAT and a 4.0 gpa to show you that numbers are superficial and barely cover the surface of an issue.
get over yourselves. the fact that your address says you live in oakton is honestly not something that makes you special. plenty of people in reston come from the exact same background as you and their kids go to south lakes and they dont seem to have a problem with it. their kids arent becoming drug addicts or getting stabbed at lunch or failing school. stop slandering reston and south lakes with your narrowminded exagerations and listen to the truth for once.
also what is all this about a failed experiment. youre blowing the whole planned community thing way out of proportion. its not like reston is some test lab that blew up and your kids are going to get radiation. most people in reston had nothing to do with it and think reston association is a joke. and guess what. their kids go to south lakes too. have fun shopping and eating at our towncenter while you cry about your kids learning to function productively in a diverse world.
also there is no such thing as a "reston school" all the schools in reston are part of ffx county, have a ffx county curriculum, and some are not even exclusively filled with people from reston (sunrise valley). reston is not some liberal conspiracy test zone anymore (and was it ever really) that is going to teach your kids to save the whales and give money to homeless people on the street. you should listen to the people who actually live there and go to school there instead of looking at numbers and telling each other horror stories about that terrible community down the street. how many of your kids need to get rejected from uva and wm with 1600 or 2400 SAT and a 4.0 gpa to show you that numbers are superficial and barely cover the surface of an issue.
get over yourselves. the fact that your address says you live in oakton is honestly not something that makes you special. plenty of people in reston come from the exact same background as you and their kids go to south lakes and they dont seem to have a problem with it. their kids arent becoming drug addicts or getting stabbed at lunch or failing school. stop slandering reston and south lakes with your narrowminded exagerations and listen to the truth for once.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
sl4life
()
Date: October 10, 2007 03:04AM
also, rich white kids already go to south lakes. they come from the 2-3million dollar home neighborhoods down the street from the school. their home prices didnt go down because they live in reston. they went up because reston is an amazing place to live with more ammenities than the suburban sprall of oakton or chantilly could ever provide.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 10, 2007 07:45AM
It's great all you South Lakes people like your school. Others like theirs too and want to continue there. In most cases people bought their homes where they did because of the schools their would children attend. People with children have avoided buying homes in the Reston/SL area for many years, hence the declining enrollment. No surrounding school exhibitted the dramatic decline in enrollment. This is also why real estate declines... because the demand goes down.
The primary reason people avoid South Lakes is the test scores, safety record and higher percentage of low income housing. Surrounding areas don't want to pay the price for the Reston community groups that insist on high concentrations of low income housing - contributing the the demise of the Reston schools (NCLB).
When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):
1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests
2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations
3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores
4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges
It's all on the FCPS web site. The facts are undeniable.
Those is South Lakes would be interested to know that surrounding schools are not seggregated - they have "diverse" populations as well,including blacks. (Most have high concentrations of asians but those in the diversity crowd don't like to count them for this purpose.) We don't live in a bubble.
And don't think anyone with an Oakton address living in million dollar homes are being targeted. It is the middle income areas closer to the Reston line that are potentially on the chopping block, as well as the Madison island and North Reston folks.
The primary reason people avoid South Lakes is the test scores, safety record and higher percentage of low income housing. Surrounding areas don't want to pay the price for the Reston community groups that insist on high concentrations of low income housing - contributing the the demise of the Reston schools (NCLB).
When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):
1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests
2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations
3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores
4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges
It's all on the FCPS web site. The facts are undeniable.
Those is South Lakes would be interested to know that surrounding schools are not seggregated - they have "diverse" populations as well,including blacks. (Most have high concentrations of asians but those in the diversity crowd don't like to count them for this purpose.) We don't live in a bubble.
And don't think anyone with an Oakton address living in million dollar homes are being targeted. It is the middle income areas closer to the Reston line that are potentially on the chopping block, as well as the Madison island and North Reston folks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 10, 2007 09:31AM
Whole schools and maps disappear in this county like Brigadoon.
I don't think this West County boundary process should continue since :
1. see school board work session budget for 10-15 07 and financial forecasts. I see no financial benefit to proceed with the study at this point...leaving the status quo costs nothing while they cancelled the major portion of the South County process which costs us millions.
2. middle school GT committee might send the expnsively bussed kids back to their base schools - - need to reallign middle school boundaries
3. transportation task force has not done it's work as of yet
4. Are people in this section of the county garbage? Note the candidates for office as well as incumbents in the general South County area. All they care about is getting a middle school built despite existing renovated capacity.
5. Gibson/Strauss did not attend the first Jackson/Kilmer/Frost/Glasgow boundary meeting last year. They built an addition at Jackson in Falls Church and decided to fill it up with kids from the town of Vienna who they designated GT center. Vienna went ballistic since Kilmer is in Vienna - they ship kids from Great Falls/Herndon/Reston to Kilmer. [Can't find Hughes on the map for some people in the Forestville boundaries.]
6. LAWSUITS - excluding the Langley Pyramid while including those less interrelated or geographically relevant is over the top. They could move the madison Island, Aldrin, Foxmill etc, for more efficiency/cost reductons etc. But they cannot arbitrarily exclude /protect a group based on location.
I don't think this West County boundary process should continue since :
1. see school board work session budget for 10-15 07 and financial forecasts. I see no financial benefit to proceed with the study at this point...leaving the status quo costs nothing while they cancelled the major portion of the South County process which costs us millions.
2. middle school GT committee might send the expnsively bussed kids back to their base schools - - need to reallign middle school boundaries
3. transportation task force has not done it's work as of yet
4. Are people in this section of the county garbage? Note the candidates for office as well as incumbents in the general South County area. All they care about is getting a middle school built despite existing renovated capacity.
5. Gibson/Strauss did not attend the first Jackson/Kilmer/Frost/Glasgow boundary meeting last year. They built an addition at Jackson in Falls Church and decided to fill it up with kids from the town of Vienna who they designated GT center. Vienna went ballistic since Kilmer is in Vienna - they ship kids from Great Falls/Herndon/Reston to Kilmer. [Can't find Hughes on the map for some people in the Forestville boundaries.]
6. LAWSUITS - excluding the Langley Pyramid while including those less interrelated or geographically relevant is over the top. They could move the madison Island, Aldrin, Foxmill etc, for more efficiency/cost reductons etc. But they cannot arbitrarily exclude /protect a group based on location.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
get real
()
Date: October 10, 2007 10:25AM
Get real Bush is not redistricting FCPS!! PERIOD, this is coming from your elected school board members trying to keep Langley and great falls people happy. As far as home value you are dam right that is what I am concerned about. I bought for the Oakton reason adn for the resale and that is priority number one. there are good kids at all schools and bad kids as well as bad teachers and good teachers. But lets look at the FCPS fact sheet the schools zones that they want to touch will all be under capacity by 2011 according to their study. get your member on the phone and get talking . get teh facts out..get the right person in office....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 10, 2007 12:50PM
Word,
I think I already posted about your errors in the SAT stats. Please get your facts straight.
SL 2007 SAT scores are comparable to Westfield and Herndon, all of which are somewhat, but not dramatically, lower than Oakton, Madison, with Chantilly in the middle. Look at the SAT table yourself on the FCPS website. Don't post untruths--it undermines your credibility.
The percentages going onto to college will obviously be lower at SL, again, because of the current demographics. Not surprising, and again, will not affect your child if they are in college prep to begin with. How about the statistic that 65% of SL grads that applied to UVA got accepted, as opposed to 25% in surrounding schools. You conveniently ignore these facts to drive your point home again and again. Broken record.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2007 02:21PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I think I already posted about your errors in the SAT stats. Please get your facts straight.
SL 2007 SAT scores are comparable to Westfield and Herndon, all of which are somewhat, but not dramatically, lower than Oakton, Madison, with Chantilly in the middle. Look at the SAT table yourself on the FCPS website. Don't post untruths--it undermines your credibility.
The percentages going onto to college will obviously be lower at SL, again, because of the current demographics. Not surprising, and again, will not affect your child if they are in college prep to begin with. How about the statistic that 65% of SL grads that applied to UVA got accepted, as opposed to 25% in surrounding schools. You conveniently ignore these facts to drive your point home again and again. Broken record.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2007 02:21PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 10, 2007 02:29PM
All of you Oakton folks are also ignoring the fact that there are Oakton families that want to be redistricted to SL because of the distance they are from Oakton. I know several of them, and one has already pupil-placed to SL. This is and should be a real concern for Oakton--when you look at a map of the Oakton district and the location of the school in one corner, it becomes obvious that bussing must be very time consuming and expensive, especially considering that it is going in the direction of rush hour traffic. the school board will be considering bussing issues and traffic when looking at redistricting, as they should.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 10, 2007 04:19PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of you Oakton folks are also ignoring the fact
> that there are Oakton families that want to be
> redistricted to SL because of the distance they
> are from Oakton. I know several of them, and one
> has already pupil-placed to SL. This is and
> should be a real concern for Oakton--when you look
> at a map of the Oakton district and the location
> of the school in one corner, it becomes obvious
> that bussing must be very time consuming and
> expensive, especially considering that it is going
> in the direction of rush hour traffic. the school
> board will be considering bussing issues and
> traffic when looking at redistricting, as they
> should.
Good, then they (school board) should be happy to grandfather those attending their current schools and all their rising siblings, since commuting back and forth to 2 different schools is very time consuming and expensive. I know they care about that, right?
In the end, I am sure they don't care about saving time and money. If so, then explain today's boundaries. They just want to be re-elected so they can continue to smile down at the "process" and atone their prior mess-ups.
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of you Oakton folks are also ignoring the fact
> that there are Oakton families that want to be
> redistricted to SL because of the distance they
> are from Oakton. I know several of them, and one
> has already pupil-placed to SL. This is and
> should be a real concern for Oakton--when you look
> at a map of the Oakton district and the location
> of the school in one corner, it becomes obvious
> that bussing must be very time consuming and
> expensive, especially considering that it is going
> in the direction of rush hour traffic. the school
> board will be considering bussing issues and
> traffic when looking at redistricting, as they
> should.
Good, then they (school board) should be happy to grandfather those attending their current schools and all their rising siblings, since commuting back and forth to 2 different schools is very time consuming and expensive. I know they care about that, right?
In the end, I am sure they don't care about saving time and money. If so, then explain today's boundaries. They just want to be re-elected so they can continue to smile down at the "process" and atone their prior mess-ups.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 10, 2007 08:48PM
Pupil-placing is the answer! Let all those that wish to attend SL do so. This will increase enrollment at SL voluntarily. Someone should notify UVA to get ready for the stampede.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cav to the rescue (of the Redistricte
()
Date: October 10, 2007 10:17PM
UVA is already prepared --- with barricades they borrowed from the Gifted Whites and Asians of Centerville RD. and Rte 50.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 10, 2007 11:36PM
Re SLHS (or, as Word says, "It's all on the FCPS web site. The facts are undeniable.")
• South Lakes High School made large,
statistically significant gains on their
2007 SAT scores, according to figures
released August 2007 by FCPS
Superintendent Jack D. Dale. Mathematics
scores rose by 12 points, Critical Reading
scores improved by 15 points, and average
Writing scores improved by 19 points.
• The same report notes that the four FCPS
high schools achieving the largest
increases in SAT scores last year (South
Lakes, Mount Vernon, Marshall and
Stuart) all offer the IB program, and three
of the four schools offer the IBMY
program in conjunction with their feeder
middle school.
• Recently released SOL results for FCPS
indicate that South Lakes, in addition to
meeting AYP, improved scores* in all
tested subject areas over the previous year.
(* Chemistry stayed the same.)
• Renovations over the summer added a
new subschool, skylights, state-of-the-art
science labs, technology upgrades, and a
breathtaking new media center. The
majority of the renovation is scheduled to
be completed by Fall 2008.
• SLHS has two new assistant principals
this year:
• Douglas Tyson has 14 years of
classroom experience in mathematics
and science at Benjamin Banneker
Academic High School in Washington
DC, where he coached the teams
award-winning Science Bowl and “It’s
Academic” tams. More recently, Mr.
Tyson served as an advisory board
member to the Research Science
Institute (RSI) at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology (MIT), and
served as an assistance principal in
charge of the Science & Technology
Division at Thomas Jefferson High
School for Science and Technology.
• David Goldfarb, a graduate of the
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
has worked as a social studies teacher,
an Advanced Placement program
coordinator, and as an educational
consultant for the Institute for Student
Achievement. He is an avid soccer fan
and has coached a number of club and
high school soccer teams in Northern
Virginia.
• On September 29 the Seahawks Marching
Band will travel to Herndon High School
compete in the USSBA Northern Virginia
Regional competition, a major step in
defending the group’s 2006 AA USSBA
State Championship.
• SLHS homecoming week is October 9-13.
Events will include a Homecoming Parade
Friday, 12 Oct at 5:00 (parade will travel
from Hunters Woods Shopping Center to
SLHS) and the Homecoming football
game against Marshall at 7:30pm
• Over the summer 11 South Lakes student
participated in an exchange program to
Braunschweig, Germany, through a
program organized by the German
American Partnership Program
• SLHS contacts
o SLHS website,
www.fcps.k12.va.us/SouthLakesHS
o SLHS PTSA/Academic Boosters,
www.southlakesptsa.org
o SLHS Athletic Boosters,
www.seahawkboosters.com
• South Lakes High School made large,
statistically significant gains on their
2007 SAT scores, according to figures
released August 2007 by FCPS
Superintendent Jack D. Dale. Mathematics
scores rose by 12 points, Critical Reading
scores improved by 15 points, and average
Writing scores improved by 19 points.
• The same report notes that the four FCPS
high schools achieving the largest
increases in SAT scores last year (South
Lakes, Mount Vernon, Marshall and
Stuart) all offer the IB program, and three
of the four schools offer the IBMY
program in conjunction with their feeder
middle school.
• Recently released SOL results for FCPS
indicate that South Lakes, in addition to
meeting AYP, improved scores* in all
tested subject areas over the previous year.
(* Chemistry stayed the same.)
• Renovations over the summer added a
new subschool, skylights, state-of-the-art
science labs, technology upgrades, and a
breathtaking new media center. The
majority of the renovation is scheduled to
be completed by Fall 2008.
• SLHS has two new assistant principals
this year:
• Douglas Tyson has 14 years of
classroom experience in mathematics
and science at Benjamin Banneker
Academic High School in Washington
DC, where he coached the teams
award-winning Science Bowl and “It’s
Academic” tams. More recently, Mr.
Tyson served as an advisory board
member to the Research Science
Institute (RSI) at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology (MIT), and
served as an assistance principal in
charge of the Science & Technology
Division at Thomas Jefferson High
School for Science and Technology.
• David Goldfarb, a graduate of the
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
has worked as a social studies teacher,
an Advanced Placement program
coordinator, and as an educational
consultant for the Institute for Student
Achievement. He is an avid soccer fan
and has coached a number of club and
high school soccer teams in Northern
Virginia.
• On September 29 the Seahawks Marching
Band will travel to Herndon High School
compete in the USSBA Northern Virginia
Regional competition, a major step in
defending the group’s 2006 AA USSBA
State Championship.
• SLHS homecoming week is October 9-13.
Events will include a Homecoming Parade
Friday, 12 Oct at 5:00 (parade will travel
from Hunters Woods Shopping Center to
SLHS) and the Homecoming football
game against Marshall at 7:30pm
• Over the summer 11 South Lakes student
participated in an exchange program to
Braunschweig, Germany, through a
program organized by the German
American Partnership Program
• SLHS contacts
o SLHS website,
www.fcps.k12.va.us/SouthLakesHS
o SLHS PTSA/Academic Boosters,
www.southlakesptsa.org
o SLHS Athletic Boosters,
www.seahawkboosters.com
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 11, 2007 03:33AM
Gee, kids from TJ, Madison, and Oakton seem to function just fine in the real world, despite going to high schools that lacked diversity. Their physics, chemistry and engineering classes at Princeton, MIT, and Stanford, also lacked diversity. YET, they get excellent jobs, get married, buy houses, and live just fine. Isn't that amazing? All that, without ever going to school with a bunch of thugs who don't want to learn a thing.
Surely no one needs a list of the students who excelled from Madison, Oakton, TJ and Herndon. It would occupy the entire forum.
I'm glad that Reston people like South Lakes. But that's not a reason to force anyone else to go there. Oakton people like Oakton. Madison kids like Madison. Why should any of them have to move because South Lakes can't attract enough students? Fix South Lakes, and perhaps it would naturally attract more students.
Surely no one needs a list of the students who excelled from Madison, Oakton, TJ and Herndon. It would occupy the entire forum.
I'm glad that Reston people like South Lakes. But that's not a reason to force anyone else to go there. Oakton people like Oakton. Madison kids like Madison. Why should any of them have to move because South Lakes can't attract enough students? Fix South Lakes, and perhaps it would naturally attract more students.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 11, 2007 03:35AM
Pupil placement is allowed in FCPS. Students rarely place into South Lakes.
Pupil placement is what will save the redistricted kids. They'll pupil place at their current schools. Not a problem. They won't go to South Lakes. Only the poor kids who have to go there will go. That won't help South Lakes AT ALL. They need to improve South Lakes, with a real magnet program, or something, if they expect anyone to go there.
Pupil placement is what will save the redistricted kids. They'll pupil place at their current schools. Not a problem. They won't go to South Lakes. Only the poor kids who have to go there will go. That won't help South Lakes AT ALL. They need to improve South Lakes, with a real magnet program, or something, if they expect anyone to go there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 11, 2007 03:42AM
Taxpayer,
Great posts, on the money. But will anyone care about the financial issue? They haven't yet. There is NO reason for a boundary change, other than Stu Gibson wants one. He's had 12 years to make South Lakes an attractive school, and he hasn't done anything. NOTHING. His solution is to force other kids go there, rather than find a way to make South Lakes better. He couldn't care less about what boundary changes will do to families. He also couldn't care less about fixing the problems at South Lakes. If he cared, he would have done it in the last 12 years.
Great posts, on the money. But will anyone care about the financial issue? They haven't yet. There is NO reason for a boundary change, other than Stu Gibson wants one. He's had 12 years to make South Lakes an attractive school, and he hasn't done anything. NOTHING. His solution is to force other kids go there, rather than find a way to make South Lakes better. He couldn't care less about what boundary changes will do to families. He also couldn't care less about fixing the problems at South Lakes. If he cared, he would have done it in the last 12 years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 11, 2007 03:45AM
South Lakes Pyramid Parent,
Let them poll the Oakton parents and if most want to go to South Lakes, then move them to South Lakes. If it's two parents who pupil place into South Lakes, and 22 who pupil place OUT of South Lakes, then boundaries should not be changed for Oakton.
Let them poll the Oakton parents and if most want to go to South Lakes, then move them to South Lakes. If it's two parents who pupil place into South Lakes, and 22 who pupil place OUT of South Lakes, then boundaries should not be changed for Oakton.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 11, 2007 07:08AM
South Lakes Pyramid Parent,
I could not agree with you more about taking a poll. However, you would find almost all Oakton people would like to remain there. The school board knows this and will not conduct such a poll.
I could not agree with you more about taking a poll. However, you would find almost all Oakton people would like to remain there. The school board knows this and will not conduct such a poll.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 11, 2007 08:20AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid Parent,
>
> I could not agree with you more about taking a
> poll. However, you would find almost all Oakton
> people would like to remain there. The school
> board knows this and will not conduct such a poll.
Set up a poll on surveymonkey -- they should use South Lakes but for what? Other areas of the County have huge lobbying groups [South County Federation/Providence District Council] that even interface with the Board of Supervisors and state/federal politicians. What does everyone else have? Nada that is effective. Compared to those groups of citizens the rest of us barely exist on the political landscape.
Let them know what you want at the ballot box. People used to vote NO for BOND Referendums. TJ is on that -- last chance for those who want to fill South Lakes, Mount Vernon with a solid program.
Tisdadt wrote a document posted on the school board website under facilities for the 6-11-07 work session.
Note Stu Gibson has been around for 12 years. He has successfully gotten alot of extra programs and focus school money for his schools. Yes. Has he ever looked at basic core instruction in reading and math? No. Has he pushed the IB program too much when AP is more cost effective? Yes. Has he perpetuated political boundaries at the expense of the school division as a whole? Yes but on a minor scope compared to the rest of the school board.
After the board decided to scrap an entire major boundary move last year they should all be canned/recalled. It is ironic that the same individuals now come up with the South Lakes Plan concurrently commencing an addition at Langley. Most people would prefer that money be spent on some renovations of the existing Langley building...
Note he questionned the size of the Glasgow new building ... for a school with about 1000 kids there is no reason to build for 1500. Plus the capacity was figured based on the programs and staffing ratios for a school with a lot of ESL and Free and reduced priced meals. Change the demographics and it could hold even more kids.
For all the communties where kids got modulars without increasing the core of the building or renovating anything this is relevant. Plus they've been buying furniture on the 20 year debt financing plan. Dumb.
In the 1990's FCPS chnaged to rebuild rather than renovations. That meant a lot less schools got their mechanicals/HVAC/baths/flooring/windows/tile etc replaced. Other schools no longer resemble the original. The Bond referendum has additional money for South Lakes. What was done there? A rebuild not a renovation. New media center - new art wing [increased square footage], ripped out auditorium. Unless you read the boarddocs on the FCPS website who knows what is going on here? Who has time to go to School Board work sessions? They don't even post verbatum written minutes anymore for regualr meetings - nor have they ever posted work session minutes.
Go to the work session on 10-15-07 ---watch them scramble on the budget discussions --- my property taxes have gone up and for what???
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid Parent,
>
> I could not agree with you more about taking a
> poll. However, you would find almost all Oakton
> people would like to remain there. The school
> board knows this and will not conduct such a poll.
Set up a poll on surveymonkey -- they should use South Lakes but for what? Other areas of the County have huge lobbying groups [South County Federation/Providence District Council] that even interface with the Board of Supervisors and state/federal politicians. What does everyone else have? Nada that is effective. Compared to those groups of citizens the rest of us barely exist on the political landscape.
Let them know what you want at the ballot box. People used to vote NO for BOND Referendums. TJ is on that -- last chance for those who want to fill South Lakes, Mount Vernon with a solid program.
Tisdadt wrote a document posted on the school board website under facilities for the 6-11-07 work session.
Note Stu Gibson has been around for 12 years. He has successfully gotten alot of extra programs and focus school money for his schools. Yes. Has he ever looked at basic core instruction in reading and math? No. Has he pushed the IB program too much when AP is more cost effective? Yes. Has he perpetuated political boundaries at the expense of the school division as a whole? Yes but on a minor scope compared to the rest of the school board.
After the board decided to scrap an entire major boundary move last year they should all be canned/recalled. It is ironic that the same individuals now come up with the South Lakes Plan concurrently commencing an addition at Langley. Most people would prefer that money be spent on some renovations of the existing Langley building...
Note he questionned the size of the Glasgow new building ... for a school with about 1000 kids there is no reason to build for 1500. Plus the capacity was figured based on the programs and staffing ratios for a school with a lot of ESL and Free and reduced priced meals. Change the demographics and it could hold even more kids.
For all the communties where kids got modulars without increasing the core of the building or renovating anything this is relevant. Plus they've been buying furniture on the 20 year debt financing plan. Dumb.
In the 1990's FCPS chnaged to rebuild rather than renovations. That meant a lot less schools got their mechanicals/HVAC/baths/flooring/windows/tile etc replaced. Other schools no longer resemble the original. The Bond referendum has additional money for South Lakes. What was done there? A rebuild not a renovation. New media center - new art wing [increased square footage], ripped out auditorium. Unless you read the boarddocs on the FCPS website who knows what is going on here? Who has time to go to School Board work sessions? They don't even post verbatum written minutes anymore for regualr meetings - nor have they ever posted work session minutes.
Go to the work session on 10-15-07 ---watch them scramble on the budget discussions --- my property taxes have gone up and for what???
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
get real
()
Date: October 11, 2007 08:43AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent wrote - not worth repeating...
Leave the district alone, if you wnat to go to SLHS go there, if not remain where you are and be able to sell your home in the future with the comfort of knowing that the buyers are looking at the elementary/middle and high schools for that home. If my home is rezoned to SL I would estimate I would lose 75K in resale value.
This has nothing to do with my kids going to school with whites/blacks/asians/hispanics it is about what is best for our area and that is to leave it alone. If we wanted to go to SLHS we would have bought there. I really don;t care about the space, labs, or theatre that was reconstructed at SL. If it is this good MOVE Thomas Jefferson HS to SL and pupil place all South Lakes to Madison/Herndon/Oakton/Chantilly and Westfield or wherever they want to go!
Leave the district alone, if you wnat to go to SLHS go there, if not remain where you are and be able to sell your home in the future with the comfort of knowing that the buyers are looking at the elementary/middle and high schools for that home. If my home is rezoned to SL I would estimate I would lose 75K in resale value.
This has nothing to do with my kids going to school with whites/blacks/asians/hispanics it is about what is best for our area and that is to leave it alone. If we wanted to go to SLHS we would have bought there. I really don;t care about the space, labs, or theatre that was reconstructed at SL. If it is this good MOVE Thomas Jefferson HS to SL and pupil place all South Lakes to Madison/Herndon/Oakton/Chantilly and Westfield or wherever they want to go!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 11, 2007 09:57AM
slgrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also,
>
> How dare grown adults on this board belittle the
> South Lakes and Reston community. Reston was an
> extreme liberal hotbed in the 70s and 80s. A lot
> of people move there now without even knowing its
> liberal history. Reston also happens to be home to
> wooded lots and lakes which are non-existant in
> the mcmansion communites that have popped up all
> over the county. Not everyone in reston is of a
> lower class than you. Many are probably more
> wealthy, more established, and obviously
> enlightened than some of you have indicated you
> are by your posts.
>
> No one is moving your child because they are
> white. It just so happens that the areas around
> reston (and the majority of reston) have white
> people and few minorities. With regard to property
> value, who is to say it won't go back up once you
> and everyone else realize how ridiculous your
> stereotyping of South Lakes actually is.
>
> Here is a new argument for you: South Lakes does
> not want your narrowminded, naive ideas ruining a
> good thing.
After all of this back and forth, I guess I have to agree with SLgrad on this one. Facts such as SAT scores and other postings by SL people on their experiences obviously have no effect on the narrow-minded, ill-informed views posted here. Hopefully, others in surrounding communities have different views than the ones posted here and are open-minded enough to listen to people who have actual experience with SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also,
>
> How dare grown adults on this board belittle the
> South Lakes and Reston community. Reston was an
> extreme liberal hotbed in the 70s and 80s. A lot
> of people move there now without even knowing its
> liberal history. Reston also happens to be home to
> wooded lots and lakes which are non-existant in
> the mcmansion communites that have popped up all
> over the county. Not everyone in reston is of a
> lower class than you. Many are probably more
> wealthy, more established, and obviously
> enlightened than some of you have indicated you
> are by your posts.
>
> No one is moving your child because they are
> white. It just so happens that the areas around
> reston (and the majority of reston) have white
> people and few minorities. With regard to property
> value, who is to say it won't go back up once you
> and everyone else realize how ridiculous your
> stereotyping of South Lakes actually is.
>
> Here is a new argument for you: South Lakes does
> not want your narrowminded, naive ideas ruining a
> good thing.
After all of this back and forth, I guess I have to agree with SLgrad on this one. Facts such as SAT scores and other postings by SL people on their experiences obviously have no effect on the narrow-minded, ill-informed views posted here. Hopefully, others in surrounding communities have different views than the ones posted here and are open-minded enough to listen to people who have actual experience with SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 11, 2007 01:44PM
I would think all you SLHS parents would not want this redistricting either. It seems like you are happy with the way things are today. Considering all of the happy statistics you present, why would you want an onslaught of unhappy kids and parents sent to your school? Do you think doubling the numbers of students, automatically doubles the bliss and laurels? I don't think that is what happens.
And South Lakes Pyramid Parent you have become one of the narrow-minded, ill-informed views by going here with your comment. If you choose to read through what most people write, the bulk of us just don't support a change. It is not complicated or filled with hidden meaning.
And South Lakes Pyramid Parent you have become one of the narrow-minded, ill-informed views by going here with your comment. If you choose to read through what most people write, the bulk of us just don't support a change. It is not complicated or filled with hidden meaning.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
feast on this
()
Date: October 11, 2007 02:10PM
please go to teh meetings and voice that opinion and make it happen I will be your best friend out side of SLHS. I don't want my kids going there. PERIOD!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 11, 2007 04:49PM
Unfortunately, no one on the school board cares if you don't want your child to go there. Certainly Stu Gibson doesn't care. He wants to keep principals happy, not students and parents. Moving in more high income kids makes the SL principal happy because his scores will rise. Or so he imagines. I suspect very few of those redistricted will ever set foot in South Lakes. They will pupil place in other schools, or go to private schools. Except for the poor kids from McNair. They'll be stuck with South Lakes, with no more help than they gotten from the school board over the last 12 years.
How inconvenient that they schedule this change immediately AFTER a school board election so that they will never be accountable to the voters. Disgusting.
If you don't like what Stu and the others are proposing, I suggest that you throw the bums out on November 6th.
How inconvenient that they schedule this change immediately AFTER a school board election so that they will never be accountable to the voters. Disgusting.
If you don't like what Stu and the others are proposing, I suggest that you throw the bums out on November 6th.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 11, 2007 05:04PM
And vote NO on school bonds!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
help wanted
()
Date: October 11, 2007 09:29PM
i like that one idea of TJ moving to South Lakes, anyone got any insight to that. Move all the brainiacs in and send all SL to the other schools. Or close the middle school there and make it a school for 7-12. Now that school will be filled and all the others can stay where they are and the kids going to that middle school need not worry because they were going to SL anyway. Let the county sell the closed middle school and now we can vote no for the bond. And don't reelect these idiots that are in there, we need new blood.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 11, 2007 09:55PM
If you are against redistricting then stop by the URL below and put your money and time where your mouth is...
http://www.stoprd-pac.org/
http://www.stoprd-pac.org/
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 11, 2007 11:23PM
I too like the idea of sending TJ kids to South Lakes and distributing the South Lakes kids to other schools. That's exactly what they did when they made TJ the Governor's school for science and tech. They sent the kids there to other area schools. I bet not many TJ parents will complain about their kids being sent to Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly and Langley.
But Mt Vernon might wonder why South Lakes get the smart kids and not them since Mt Vernon is even more under enrolled than South Lakes. It will be 1,000 students under enrolled, with no mention of every redistricting. With the new high school in South County, several schools are now under enrolled in that area and it will only get worse.
Why not make a magnet school within a school at South Lakes and at Mt.Vermon? That worked at Montgomery Blair in Montgomery county. They could do the same at those two schools, but they won't. They'd rather force people to go to South Lakes and lower their property values. They don't care. They don't have to. They will all have been re elected.
But Mt Vernon might wonder why South Lakes get the smart kids and not them since Mt Vernon is even more under enrolled than South Lakes. It will be 1,000 students under enrolled, with no mention of every redistricting. With the new high school in South County, several schools are now under enrolled in that area and it will only get worse.
Why not make a magnet school within a school at South Lakes and at Mt.Vermon? That worked at Montgomery Blair in Montgomery county. They could do the same at those two schools, but they won't. They'd rather force people to go to South Lakes and lower their property values. They don't care. They don't have to. They will all have been re elected.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 12, 2007 08:56AM
I know that the enrollment projections show that many schools will not be past capacity in a couple of years, but I think they are including the trailers in the capacity numbers at these schools. Trailers don't make up for lack of library, cafeteria, etc. space. And they are hot in summer, cold in winter--not good for learning.
If trailers are eliminated from the equation, would schools still be projected to be under capacity?
If trailers are eliminated from the equation, would schools still be projected to be under capacity?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 12, 2007 10:01AM
From www.StopRD-PAC.org....
Friends and Neighbors:
An article was published yesterday in a local paper regarding redistricting. It described a meeting which I attended in the Chantilly Highlands neighborhood. People in Chantilly Highlands attend Chantilly High School and want to stay there. The article can be read at http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=88637&paper=62&cat=104
The article is useful to show the general sense of unrest in the community, however, in my opinion, it demonstrates the folly of each individual neighborhood claiming they should not be redistricted because of Reason X!!! You see, Reason X can then be used to force another, perhaps smaller, less organized, or less influential neighborhood to BE redistricted. For example, let's say proximity to the school is your Reason X. Well, some Poor Slob who lives closer to a high school he does not want to attend is then told "Proximity is The Reason we used to move you!" Never mind the fact that Poor Slob was perfectly happy with his child attending a school further away than other people may like. Heck, he knew that when he bought his house! (By the way, proximity certainly was not the reason the County used when it decided to build three high schools - Oakton, Fairfax, and Madison - within a few miles of each other. Of course the school districts are going to be elongated!) And proximity is only one of a long list of Reasons X which may be used to rationalize the school board's post-election redistricting. How about IB vs. AP?.. language immersion programs?... extracurricular activities?... volunteer relationships?... siblings who attended the school?... I can go on and on, and so can you.
I can just envision the Town Hall Meetings the School Board is saying we should all be prepared to participate in! What fun! They create a big mess, then throw it in our lap and say, you fix it?!? And by the way, fix it by attacking your neighbor and his Reason X. That is real political leadership, eh? The meetings will be an exercise in "which neighborhood can muster the most people to attend and argue THEIR Reason is Reason X!" Such preparations are already underway. Some of the larger neighborhoods are emboldened by their numbers and the passions of their residents, and are preparing to do exactly what I have described. Good luck. The process will only give political cover to the School Board members... and of course there will be winners and losers. Personally, I think a complete boycott of the meetings would make the most compelling statement of all.
As I have tried to emphasize from the outset, we all have our reasons for living where we do. The School Board is forcing people to squabble among themselves to defend their individual turf. We must stay unified to succeed. Such unity is the premise behind StopRD.org and the call for a moratorium on redistricting. We simply do not trust this existing School Board and the process they have delayed until after the election. We must elect candidates who most closely represent StopRD's positions as described at www.StopRD.org.
Please volunteer through our political action committee, www.StopRD-PAC.org, to distribute our candidate endorsements one or more of the following weekends: October 19/20, October 26/27, and November 2/3. If you cannot do so, please consider sending a contribution of as little as $25 to help fund our activities aimed at stopping this redistricting process.
Some other notes.... our volunteer coordinator is Matt Lupone.. please contact him at lupone_2@hotmail.com... I will sign Letters of Community Service for all students who volunteer their time to help distribute our election material. For details, see www.StopRD-PAC.org... candidate endorsements will be released by October 18th... We are forming a Legal Committee to explore a lawsuit against any action the School Board may take. If you are a lawyer and would like to participate, please let me know.
School Board member Kathy Smith was quoted recently as making the general statement that StopRD.org's website contains "faulty information." She did not specify what she was referring to. The only thing I am aware of which might be described as "faulty" was our attack on the previously proposed (by School Board member Stu Gibson) "Boundary Planning Committee." It was only "faulty" because it remained on our website for a few days after it had been quielty dropped by the Board. When we were able to confirm it had been dropped by the School Board, we dropped it from the website, however our information was quite accurate when we launched our attack. I like to think that the substance of our attack was the reason it was dropped in the first place. It was ridiculous for the School Board to suggest an unelected body of citizen representatives should be appointed to do the job of the elected School Board.
Make sure you mark November 6th on your calendar to vote, and volunteer if you can.
Friends and Neighbors:
An article was published yesterday in a local paper regarding redistricting. It described a meeting which I attended in the Chantilly Highlands neighborhood. People in Chantilly Highlands attend Chantilly High School and want to stay there. The article can be read at http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=88637&paper=62&cat=104
The article is useful to show the general sense of unrest in the community, however, in my opinion, it demonstrates the folly of each individual neighborhood claiming they should not be redistricted because of Reason X!!! You see, Reason X can then be used to force another, perhaps smaller, less organized, or less influential neighborhood to BE redistricted. For example, let's say proximity to the school is your Reason X. Well, some Poor Slob who lives closer to a high school he does not want to attend is then told "Proximity is The Reason we used to move you!" Never mind the fact that Poor Slob was perfectly happy with his child attending a school further away than other people may like. Heck, he knew that when he bought his house! (By the way, proximity certainly was not the reason the County used when it decided to build three high schools - Oakton, Fairfax, and Madison - within a few miles of each other. Of course the school districts are going to be elongated!) And proximity is only one of a long list of Reasons X which may be used to rationalize the school board's post-election redistricting. How about IB vs. AP?.. language immersion programs?... extracurricular activities?... volunteer relationships?... siblings who attended the school?... I can go on and on, and so can you.
I can just envision the Town Hall Meetings the School Board is saying we should all be prepared to participate in! What fun! They create a big mess, then throw it in our lap and say, you fix it?!? And by the way, fix it by attacking your neighbor and his Reason X. That is real political leadership, eh? The meetings will be an exercise in "which neighborhood can muster the most people to attend and argue THEIR Reason is Reason X!" Such preparations are already underway. Some of the larger neighborhoods are emboldened by their numbers and the passions of their residents, and are preparing to do exactly what I have described. Good luck. The process will only give political cover to the School Board members... and of course there will be winners and losers. Personally, I think a complete boycott of the meetings would make the most compelling statement of all.
As I have tried to emphasize from the outset, we all have our reasons for living where we do. The School Board is forcing people to squabble among themselves to defend their individual turf. We must stay unified to succeed. Such unity is the premise behind StopRD.org and the call for a moratorium on redistricting. We simply do not trust this existing School Board and the process they have delayed until after the election. We must elect candidates who most closely represent StopRD's positions as described at www.StopRD.org.
Please volunteer through our political action committee, www.StopRD-PAC.org, to distribute our candidate endorsements one or more of the following weekends: October 19/20, October 26/27, and November 2/3. If you cannot do so, please consider sending a contribution of as little as $25 to help fund our activities aimed at stopping this redistricting process.
Some other notes.... our volunteer coordinator is Matt Lupone.. please contact him at lupone_2@hotmail.com... I will sign Letters of Community Service for all students who volunteer their time to help distribute our election material. For details, see www.StopRD-PAC.org... candidate endorsements will be released by October 18th... We are forming a Legal Committee to explore a lawsuit against any action the School Board may take. If you are a lawyer and would like to participate, please let me know.
School Board member Kathy Smith was quoted recently as making the general statement that StopRD.org's website contains "faulty information." She did not specify what she was referring to. The only thing I am aware of which might be described as "faulty" was our attack on the previously proposed (by School Board member Stu Gibson) "Boundary Planning Committee." It was only "faulty" because it remained on our website for a few days after it had been quielty dropped by the Board. When we were able to confirm it had been dropped by the School Board, we dropped it from the website, however our information was quite accurate when we launched our attack. I like to think that the substance of our attack was the reason it was dropped in the first place. It was ridiculous for the School Board to suggest an unelected body of citizen representatives should be appointed to do the job of the elected School Board.
Make sure you mark November 6th on your calendar to vote, and volunteer if you can.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 12, 2007 10:03AM
All Organize behind ONE winning solution ... NO Redistricting or MAGNETIZE SLHS
don't get pitted against your neighbor or friends
don't get pitted against your neighbor or friends
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 12, 2007 10:41AM
Neen,
I don't think the parents of SL would like to see their community dispersed to other schools any more than you. How presumptuous of you.
And Cricket, we welcome kids from other communities because this will allow us to offer more electives,etc. But we also have concerns about a big influx and how that will affect our small community. However, SL does have the capacity, and like the Westfield redistricting, this works itself out over time.
One of our issues with becoming a magnet would be getting kids from all over the county. We have this now at Hunters Woods, and it has downsides, because my kids become friends with kids who live far away, it's hard to maintain friendships. Speaking for myself, I would rather have a community school.
I don't think the parents of SL would like to see their community dispersed to other schools any more than you. How presumptuous of you.
And Cricket, we welcome kids from other communities because this will allow us to offer more electives,etc. But we also have concerns about a big influx and how that will affect our small community. However, SL does have the capacity, and like the Westfield redistricting, this works itself out over time.
One of our issues with becoming a magnet would be getting kids from all over the county. We have this now at Hunters Woods, and it has downsides, because my kids become friends with kids who live far away, it's hard to maintain friendships. Speaking for myself, I would rather have a community school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 12, 2007 10:59AM
Just a suggestion...
move the Chantilly Acadamy http://www.fcps.edu/ChantillyAcademy/ to South Lakes
allow Westfield students in areas close to Chantilly HS to opt-in to Chantilly HS
--- fills up capacity at SL, relieves capacity at Westfield and Chantilly
move the Chantilly Acadamy http://www.fcps.edu/ChantillyAcademy/ to South Lakes
allow Westfield students in areas close to Chantilly HS to opt-in to Chantilly HS
--- fills up capacity at SL, relieves capacity at Westfield and Chantilly
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Westfield Parent
()
Date: October 12, 2007 11:53AM
It is a complete misconception that Westfield is over-crowded. They just had a 44-room and cafeteria expansion added to the school in fall of 2006. The school is just at 68 over-capacity right now and next fall they will be 100 under. The student population will steadily drop each year to 300 under capacity in 2010. There is no need to relieve over-crowding at this school because it does not exist!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 12, 2007 12:25PM
Westfield Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a complete misconception that Westfield is
> over-crowded. They just had a 44-room and
> cafeteria expansion added to the school in fall of
> 2006. The school is just at 68 over-capacity
> right now and next fall they will be 100 under.
> The student population will steadily drop each
> year to 300 under capacity in 2010. There is no
> need to relieve over-crowding at this school
> because it does not exist!
That is correct - I am looking at the CIP. Meanwhile people in Fairfax Station REFUSED to continue in a boundary process to move from South County to Lake Braddock which also got an ADDITION. What is with these fools on the shool board? Each wants additions and renovations with the result they have to scramble to justify it.
It is bizarre that Westfields [by the airport] is in this boundary process when an addition is being built at Langley to house people who any normal person would have sent to Herndon or South Lakes.
Reston is a distinct community and someone posted about wanting community schools. Anyone not in Reston who is sent there is an outsider. They mentionned Hunters Woods which was listed as having 8 trailers, a GT center, a magnet program, plus who knows what other extra funding...the magnet uses about 4 school busses. Why does that school get all these extras yet I never see Gibson changing any of those boundaries? Why do we have to continue paying for all of that? How many schools does Gibson have with Foreign Language Immersion? Fox Mill and Floris are listed as having japanese. Exactly how many kids are in those programs at each grade level --- why isn't one on the other side of the county? How many schools in Sully have extra /focus/magnet money?
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a complete misconception that Westfield is
> over-crowded. They just had a 44-room and
> cafeteria expansion added to the school in fall of
> 2006. The school is just at 68 over-capacity
> right now and next fall they will be 100 under.
> The student population will steadily drop each
> year to 300 under capacity in 2010. There is no
> need to relieve over-crowding at this school
> because it does not exist!
That is correct - I am looking at the CIP. Meanwhile people in Fairfax Station REFUSED to continue in a boundary process to move from South County to Lake Braddock which also got an ADDITION. What is with these fools on the shool board? Each wants additions and renovations with the result they have to scramble to justify it.
It is bizarre that Westfields [by the airport] is in this boundary process when an addition is being built at Langley to house people who any normal person would have sent to Herndon or South Lakes.
Reston is a distinct community and someone posted about wanting community schools. Anyone not in Reston who is sent there is an outsider. They mentionned Hunters Woods which was listed as having 8 trailers, a GT center, a magnet program, plus who knows what other extra funding...the magnet uses about 4 school busses. Why does that school get all these extras yet I never see Gibson changing any of those boundaries? Why do we have to continue paying for all of that? How many schools does Gibson have with Foreign Language Immersion? Fox Mill and Floris are listed as having japanese. Exactly how many kids are in those programs at each grade level --- why isn't one on the other side of the county? How many schools in Sully have extra /focus/magnet money?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 12, 2007 01:44PM
I don't know why people think that Reston as a whole is a distinct community. South Reston and North Reston are completely different communities. I know a lot more people from Fox Mill area because my kids go to Hunters Woods, so i would consider them part of my community. It has more to do with the school in your immediate area than what your address is. Of course, if North Reston was part of SL pyramid, I might feel differently because I would know people there. But I don't think basing arguments on zip codes or addresses holds much water, especially given how they mix and match the schools currently. It's all FFX county.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2007 01:52PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2007 01:52PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 12, 2007 02:00PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> ...if North Reston
> was part of SL pyramid, I might feel differently
> because I would know people there. But I don't
> think basing arguments on zip codes or addresses
> holds much water. It's all FFX county.
There are parts of Reston north of the Town Center that go to South Lakes - Forest Edge [areas that border Route 7] and Lake Anne -- both share borders with Aldrin. Who's left in the special tax district that isn't at South Lakes?
Tell it's all FFX to many who won't use Lake Braddock - Gibson, Storck, Strauss, Tom Davis, Hyland, Connelly, etc.
------------------------------------------------------
> ...if North Reston
> was part of SL pyramid, I might feel differently
> because I would know people there. But I don't
> think basing arguments on zip codes or addresses
> holds much water. It's all FFX county.
There are parts of Reston north of the Town Center that go to South Lakes - Forest Edge [areas that border Route 7] and Lake Anne -- both share borders with Aldrin. Who's left in the special tax district that isn't at South Lakes?
Tell it's all FFX to many who won't use Lake Braddock - Gibson, Storck, Strauss, Tom Davis, Hyland, Connelly, etc.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 12, 2007 04:33PM
Many of the magnet programs were put in schools that were low performing. For instance, there are no language immersion programs in Vienna and only one in McLean, in the lowest income neighborhood. GT centers were also put in the low income areas. Then the county decided that they really needed more black students in GT centers so the percentage of students in GT centers went from 4.5% to 14% and over crowded all of the schools with GT centers. DUH Couldn't they see that coming?
I am not surprised that there would be fewer magnets and language immersion schools in Sully and more in Reston. Reston schools need all the help they can get.
I am not surprised that there would be fewer magnets and language immersion schools in Sully and more in Reston. Reston schools need all the help they can get.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 12, 2007 04:34PM
How much extra in taxes do people in Reston pay? Or does it all go to the Reston Association? How much do people have to pay for the privilege of living in Reston?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 12, 2007 04:55PM
Neen, I really wish you would stop being so insulting to SL people, not to mention inaccurate. Floris and Fox Mill aren't even in Reston. And Chantilly has the academy magnet.
We pay around $450 a year for Reston "amenities" including the pools, tennis courts, and trail upkeep. I find it's well worth it just for the pools.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2007 05:24PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
We pay around $450 a year for Reston "amenities" including the pools, tennis courts, and trail upkeep. I find it's well worth it just for the pools.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2007 05:24PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jimmy
()
Date: October 12, 2007 05:31PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent~You are most prolific on this thread. Do you receive this attribute from pyramid power? I've heard about this phenomenon, but really never believed it.
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 12, 2007 10:36PM
I never said that Floris is in Reston, or Fox Mill. Both schools are close enough to South Lakes that they might be part of the redistricting.
What's the Chantilly academy got to do with anything? Chantilly was not one of the higher performing schools, so it's not surprising that they got an academy. Was that your point? Lower performing schools get the special programs. The lowest performing schools got stuck with IB.
What have I said about Reston that is inaccurate?
I'm glad to hear that your Reston taxes are so low. Does that include police protection, trash collection, street cleaning, leaf collection, large refuse removal, Christmas tree removals, and snow removal, like in the town of Vienna and city of Falls Church? If so, that is a great bargain!
What's the Chantilly academy got to do with anything? Chantilly was not one of the higher performing schools, so it's not surprising that they got an academy. Was that your point? Lower performing schools get the special programs. The lowest performing schools got stuck with IB.
What have I said about Reston that is inaccurate?
I'm glad to hear that your Reston taxes are so low. Does that include police protection, trash collection, street cleaning, leaf collection, large refuse removal, Christmas tree removals, and snow removal, like in the town of Vienna and city of Falls Church? If so, that is a great bargain!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 13, 2007 09:29AM
Neen:
Did one of your kids lose in a swim meet to a Reston kid? Did RA deny your application to paint your fence a lovely grape color, if you deigned to move to Reston?
Why the antipathy? Give it a rest. I am sure you'll find a way to avoid Reston forever, and to tell everyone what a crappy place it is. Many of us find it a fine place to live, even if we grouse about RA, the traffic, or our taxes.
People can make their own choices, but quit sliming everything about SLHS and Reston. It distorts and cheapens the debate.
Did one of your kids lose in a swim meet to a Reston kid? Did RA deny your application to paint your fence a lovely grape color, if you deigned to move to Reston?
Why the antipathy? Give it a rest. I am sure you'll find a way to avoid Reston forever, and to tell everyone what a crappy place it is. Many of us find it a fine place to live, even if we grouse about RA, the traffic, or our taxes.
People can make their own choices, but quit sliming everything about SLHS and Reston. It distorts and cheapens the debate.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: October 14, 2007 12:37AM
I have to laugh at all this talk about property values. Face it folks...regardless of what happens with the redistricting...your home values are in a free fall. And where the bottom is...nobody knows. Before it's over, it might make the Great Depression look like a walk in the park.
I've bought and sold over 30 SFHs since the late 70's and I've never been more apprehensive than I am now....I quit buying houses when the prices started skyrocketing and have been unloading long-held properties as fast as I can.
I truly feel sorry for all the morons that financed that Hummer H2, fancy TVs, and all manner of granite this and stainless that with home equity loans. NO WAY these dumb fucks will be able able to sell their homes in at least the next decade. A lotta these assholes will be lucky to keep their goddamn hair dryers from the repo man!
Nationwide, millions will eventually be forced to walk away....FURTHER worsening the situation. Already, cities like Cleveland, Ohio are facing huge costs to bulldoze entire neighborhoods that have been abandoned.
But I'll be alright...and am actually savoring thought of picking off some choice properties from the lenders for pennies on the dollar.
South Lakes is the LEAST of your worries, suckers!
I've bought and sold over 30 SFHs since the late 70's and I've never been more apprehensive than I am now....I quit buying houses when the prices started skyrocketing and have been unloading long-held properties as fast as I can.
I truly feel sorry for all the morons that financed that Hummer H2, fancy TVs, and all manner of granite this and stainless that with home equity loans. NO WAY these dumb fucks will be able able to sell their homes in at least the next decade. A lotta these assholes will be lucky to keep their goddamn hair dryers from the repo man!
Nationwide, millions will eventually be forced to walk away....FURTHER worsening the situation. Already, cities like Cleveland, Ohio are facing huge costs to bulldoze entire neighborhoods that have been abandoned.
But I'll be alright...and am actually savoring thought of picking off some choice properties from the lenders for pennies on the dollar.
South Lakes is the LEAST of your worries, suckers!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 14, 2007 01:33AM
>>>>People can make their own choices<<<<
Isn't that wonderful? If only they could make their own choice about schools too. If only they had a choice to stay in the schools they like.
Isn't that wonderful? If only they could make their own choice about schools too. If only they had a choice to stay in the schools they like.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 14, 2007 01:39AM
DUH, yes, house prices are going down. But most of us didn't buy our homes yesterday. We bought them long before 2004. We'll make money whenever choose to sell. It doesn't really matter if we make $500,000 or $700,000, that we might have made in 2005. It's all gravy for us.
Thanks to the federal government we have the lowest unemployment in the country. This is not Cleveland. You are obviously clueless about economics, and clueless about this area.
Did you really think that house prices would never go down, and you would always be able to be a flipper?
What a dope. I'd have to say that is YOU who is the dump fuck. No wonder you're bitter and jealous. Get used to it. Or get a real job.
Thanks to the federal government we have the lowest unemployment in the country. This is not Cleveland. You are obviously clueless about economics, and clueless about this area.
Did you really think that house prices would never go down, and you would always be able to be a flipper?
What a dope. I'd have to say that is YOU who is the dump fuck. No wonder you're bitter and jealous. Get used to it. Or get a real job.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: October 14, 2007 02:38AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DUH, yes, house prices are going down. But most
> of us didn't buy our homes yesterday. We bought
> them long before 2004. We'll make money whenever
> choose to sell. It doesn't really matter if we
> make $500,000 or $700,000, that we might have made
> in 2005. It's all gravy for us.
>
> Thanks to the federal government we have the
> lowest unemployment in the country. This is not
> Cleveland. You are obviously clueless about
> economics, and clueless about this area.
>
> Did you really think that house prices would never
> go down, and you would always be able to be a
> flipper?
>
> What a dope. I'd have to say that is YOU who is
> the dump fuck. No wonder you're bitter and
> jealous. Get used to it. Or get a real job.
I don't need a "real job", asshole...I'm VERY comfortably retired. Actually, my sons are anxiously awaiting my demise! LOL
Of course I understand that this is not Cleveland and that most of "us" bought before the boom...but have you checked the foreclosure section in the newspaper lately? All I'm saying is you better quit tapping your equity line of credit...it's later than you think.
Hey, when are you Republicans going to lower MY taxes....I just sent off my September quarterly IRS payment of almost 16 grand....probably more than you make in a year.
And no I don't live in liberal Reston....I'm on very conservative Chapel Rd in Clifton.
-------------------------------------------------------
> DUH, yes, house prices are going down. But most
> of us didn't buy our homes yesterday. We bought
> them long before 2004. We'll make money whenever
> choose to sell. It doesn't really matter if we
> make $500,000 or $700,000, that we might have made
> in 2005. It's all gravy for us.
>
> Thanks to the federal government we have the
> lowest unemployment in the country. This is not
> Cleveland. You are obviously clueless about
> economics, and clueless about this area.
>
> Did you really think that house prices would never
> go down, and you would always be able to be a
> flipper?
>
> What a dope. I'd have to say that is YOU who is
> the dump fuck. No wonder you're bitter and
> jealous. Get used to it. Or get a real job.
I don't need a "real job", asshole...I'm VERY comfortably retired. Actually, my sons are anxiously awaiting my demise! LOL
Of course I understand that this is not Cleveland and that most of "us" bought before the boom...but have you checked the foreclosure section in the newspaper lately? All I'm saying is you better quit tapping your equity line of credit...it's later than you think.
Hey, when are you Republicans going to lower MY taxes....I just sent off my September quarterly IRS payment of almost 16 grand....probably more than you make in a year.
And no I don't live in liberal Reston....I'm on very conservative Chapel Rd in Clifton.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Keyur Mehta
()
Date: October 14, 2007 10:22AM
Where do the majority of students for TJ come fom (disticts)?
I think this makes the most sense. Use South Lakes facilities for the TJ program.
I think this makes the most sense. Use South Lakes facilities for the TJ program.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slhs padre
()
Date: October 14, 2007 01:11PM
It would be "wonderful" if you could make a point without demeaning everything and everyone you oppose or don't agree with.
SLHS is an excellent, rising high school that will expand its very successful IB program and other courses when it gets additional students to fill the renovated, expanded facilities. Parents and students will welcome new families and kids and work to make it a great academic and social experience.
Reston is a very nice, safe, affluent, and diverse community -- not perfect and not for everyone's taste or druthers, but home to many, many successful people of all kinds of political views, backgrounds, and opinions who don't sit around singing Koombiyah, figuring out how to get everyone to dress and think the same, or -- for that matter- espouse some wingnut slogan either.
SLHS is an excellent, rising high school that will expand its very successful IB program and other courses when it gets additional students to fill the renovated, expanded facilities. Parents and students will welcome new families and kids and work to make it a great academic and social experience.
Reston is a very nice, safe, affluent, and diverse community -- not perfect and not for everyone's taste or druthers, but home to many, many successful people of all kinds of political views, backgrounds, and opinions who don't sit around singing Koombiyah, figuring out how to get everyone to dress and think the same, or -- for that matter- espouse some wingnut slogan either.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 15, 2007 12:49AM
If people cared about facilities, no one would live in McLean or Vienna. Most of their schools are old, run down, and falling apart. If a nice facility contributed to academics or anything else, Mount Vernon high school would be packed, rather than 800 under enrolled. That school was also renovated, beautifully. No one would attend TJ, if facilities mattered. TJ is a dump, hasn't been renovated in 25 years.
Most TJ kids come from........wait for it........the richest parts of the county. Smart people tend to be richer than dumb people. Smart people tend to have smart kids. (Genetics can be such a drag that way.) That might explain why Langley, Oakton, Madison have higher SAT scores than other parts of the county. South Lakes is close to all of those areas so putting TJ students into South Lakes is perfect. FCPS could make a bundle selling the TJ property. All South Lakes students could be reassigned to Madison, Oakton, Herndon, Oakton, Wesfield, and Chantilly. Four years out, none of those schools would be over crowded, even with the South Lakes students. Do the math.
Again, I'm happy that there are people who like South Lakes. That's wonderful. That doesn't mean you can expect everyone else to share your opinion or want to go to South Lakes. You could just continue to enjoy it and expect to have small class sizes and expect every child to make the team, whatever team they choose. Sounds like a win-win for everyone.
Most TJ kids come from........wait for it........the richest parts of the county. Smart people tend to be richer than dumb people. Smart people tend to have smart kids. (Genetics can be such a drag that way.) That might explain why Langley, Oakton, Madison have higher SAT scores than other parts of the county. South Lakes is close to all of those areas so putting TJ students into South Lakes is perfect. FCPS could make a bundle selling the TJ property. All South Lakes students could be reassigned to Madison, Oakton, Herndon, Oakton, Wesfield, and Chantilly. Four years out, none of those schools would be over crowded, even with the South Lakes students. Do the math.
Again, I'm happy that there are people who like South Lakes. That's wonderful. That doesn't mean you can expect everyone else to share your opinion or want to go to South Lakes. You could just continue to enjoy it and expect to have small class sizes and expect every child to make the team, whatever team they choose. Sounds like a win-win for everyone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: October 15, 2007 03:17AM
word: hahahahahahaha. lighten up.
yeah westfields starting running back (if you want to know his name go to a game) was expelled from south lakes his freshman year (now a senior) because he and a whole bunch of other players gave out birthday hits to one guy and it escalated.
neen: so what youre saying is... everyone who isnt rich and white is a thug? if youre a parent with a kid with that attitude you can stay out of south lakes. we dont need any cancers. and south lakes HAS been fixed. its people like you who keep propagating its negative image.
academies are useless to the bulk of students. i'm not at chantilly so i never see kids coming in to my school but it really seems like a hassle. however, they offer career training for kids who go into service professions like nursing or EMT. and i swear you have no heart if you can look down on a person who ends up at nova training to be an EMT instead of going to a 4 year college like your kid does.
the lowest performing schools get the IB? then hows robinson for you as an outliar on your nice little chart, there? with the exception of robinson, which has a perfect fit for ib since its a secondary school, the ib schools in ffx co are the smaller ones.
and now, neen, you make your argument based on reston not being a town? i'm extremely pleased that reston neither has no mayor nor a police force. i guess youve never talked to herndon cops, but they are complete cocks. they fine higher, too, since they are privatized and more hard-up for money.
just as an added note, i hope that when the redistricting happens that south lakes doesnt get a new westfield murderer on their hands.
and just for humor's sake on http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/us/18school.html?_r=1&oref=slogin '“Mostly, people are confused,” said Steve Webb, who dropped out of Westfield last year to become a professional juggler'
yeah westfields starting running back (if you want to know his name go to a game) was expelled from south lakes his freshman year (now a senior) because he and a whole bunch of other players gave out birthday hits to one guy and it escalated.
neen: so what youre saying is... everyone who isnt rich and white is a thug? if youre a parent with a kid with that attitude you can stay out of south lakes. we dont need any cancers. and south lakes HAS been fixed. its people like you who keep propagating its negative image.
academies are useless to the bulk of students. i'm not at chantilly so i never see kids coming in to my school but it really seems like a hassle. however, they offer career training for kids who go into service professions like nursing or EMT. and i swear you have no heart if you can look down on a person who ends up at nova training to be an EMT instead of going to a 4 year college like your kid does.
the lowest performing schools get the IB? then hows robinson for you as an outliar on your nice little chart, there? with the exception of robinson, which has a perfect fit for ib since its a secondary school, the ib schools in ffx co are the smaller ones.
and now, neen, you make your argument based on reston not being a town? i'm extremely pleased that reston neither has no mayor nor a police force. i guess youve never talked to herndon cops, but they are complete cocks. they fine higher, too, since they are privatized and more hard-up for money.
just as an added note, i hope that when the redistricting happens that south lakes doesnt get a new westfield murderer on their hands.
and just for humor's sake on http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/us/18school.html?_r=1&oref=slogin '“Mostly, people are confused,” said Steve Webb, who dropped out of Westfield last year to become a professional juggler'
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 15, 2007 06:30AM
brian Wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
> ... westfields starting running back (if you want
> to know his name go to a game) was expelled from
> south lakes his freshman year (now a senior)
> because he and a whole bunch of other players gave
> out birthday hits to one guy and it escalated...
so they physically hurt someone else on the team - that is severe hazing. This must have been under the prior worthless principal. Was that creature the only one punished and how is getting moved to Westfields punitive enough? If the hits wre on the field where were the coaches? Any fired? If they were in the locker room was he also abused sexually? FCPS sweeps everything under the carpet. Wash Post doesn't cover FX as well as it does Montco. More makes the local papers about shenanigans at SL's than other schools. Butler is a real principal and South Lakes now has good admins. Remember Eastern HS in DC? The FCPS admin that went there had been doing a bad job at Madison for years and lasted about 6 months in SE DC before even his colleagues were quoted about his abusve nature in the Post. Hey if you live in SE you have nothing to lose about complaining about lousy public schools...
Woodson has the highest ST scores in this county but FCPS adds in adult ed numbers - it through out IB. Robinson is large enough to have both programs and the other IB schools looked at it as a way out to stop the flight of the middle class, get pupil placements, train lifers , etc. Guess what? The per pupil per course costs are staggering. FCPS does not accurately represent the cost of the program and it is an extremely tight budget cycle for years. I for one expect to pay less property taxes this year since the FMV of my home has decreased. Rather than fool with this no financial benefit boundary chnage this year after the fiscally irresponsible maneuvers over the last year.
They operate like the little money down borrowers who then took out second mortgages for hummers and pools.
----------------------------------------------------
> ... westfields starting running back (if you want
> to know his name go to a game) was expelled from
> south lakes his freshman year (now a senior)
> because he and a whole bunch of other players gave
> out birthday hits to one guy and it escalated...
so they physically hurt someone else on the team - that is severe hazing. This must have been under the prior worthless principal. Was that creature the only one punished and how is getting moved to Westfields punitive enough? If the hits wre on the field where were the coaches? Any fired? If they were in the locker room was he also abused sexually? FCPS sweeps everything under the carpet. Wash Post doesn't cover FX as well as it does Montco. More makes the local papers about shenanigans at SL's than other schools. Butler is a real principal and South Lakes now has good admins. Remember Eastern HS in DC? The FCPS admin that went there had been doing a bad job at Madison for years and lasted about 6 months in SE DC before even his colleagues were quoted about his abusve nature in the Post. Hey if you live in SE you have nothing to lose about complaining about lousy public schools...
Woodson has the highest ST scores in this county but FCPS adds in adult ed numbers - it through out IB. Robinson is large enough to have both programs and the other IB schools looked at it as a way out to stop the flight of the middle class, get pupil placements, train lifers , etc. Guess what? The per pupil per course costs are staggering. FCPS does not accurately represent the cost of the program and it is an extremely tight budget cycle for years. I for one expect to pay less property taxes this year since the FMV of my home has decreased. Rather than fool with this no financial benefit boundary chnage this year after the fiscally irresponsible maneuvers over the last year.
They operate like the little money down borrowers who then took out second mortgages for hummers and pools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Maxwell
()
Date: October 15, 2007 01:00PM
Wow—I’m really glad I found this forum. I’ve learned so much from the opponents of redistricting:
1) The Fairfax County School Board is obligated to prop up the value of people’s homes, giving that a higher priority in drawing school boundaries than demographics or the educational needs of all the students in the county.
2) Schools with lots of racial and ethnic diversity are bad. Gangs regularly torment students at such schools. Kids who want to go to college are forced to sit through many classes with hopeless, disruptive losers who like something called “hip-hop.”
3) The education you get at a school where white students average 1161 on the SATs is indisputably superior to one where white kids average 1127. The differing income levels and educational backgrounds of the white parents whose children attend those schools has little if any effect on the variation in test scores.
4) It’s wrong to bus children to schools with lots of black or hispanic students, because the bussed students are merely part of an experiment that will turn them into small rodents. All students should attend the schools closest to their homes—unless a school farther away has more affluent students and higher aggregate test scores, in which case it’s ok for the kids to ride a bus there until they’re old enough to take the Beamer.
But the best thing I learned, is which candidates for the Fairfax County school board are for redistricting, and which are more likely to protect the privileges white and Asian folks thought they had bought themselves by buying houses in certain neighborhoods. I wasn’t going to vote at all, but now I see the light. A big thank you to all of the wealthy racists who’ve expressed their views on this board!
And props to all the SL students and grads who’ve contributed to this discussion—you’re more rational and knowledgeable than most others here, and I hope my daughter in a few years will benefit as much from a SLHS education as you have.
1) The Fairfax County School Board is obligated to prop up the value of people’s homes, giving that a higher priority in drawing school boundaries than demographics or the educational needs of all the students in the county.
2) Schools with lots of racial and ethnic diversity are bad. Gangs regularly torment students at such schools. Kids who want to go to college are forced to sit through many classes with hopeless, disruptive losers who like something called “hip-hop.”
3) The education you get at a school where white students average 1161 on the SATs is indisputably superior to one where white kids average 1127. The differing income levels and educational backgrounds of the white parents whose children attend those schools has little if any effect on the variation in test scores.
4) It’s wrong to bus children to schools with lots of black or hispanic students, because the bussed students are merely part of an experiment that will turn them into small rodents. All students should attend the schools closest to their homes—unless a school farther away has more affluent students and higher aggregate test scores, in which case it’s ok for the kids to ride a bus there until they’re old enough to take the Beamer.
But the best thing I learned, is which candidates for the Fairfax County school board are for redistricting, and which are more likely to protect the privileges white and Asian folks thought they had bought themselves by buying houses in certain neighborhoods. I wasn’t going to vote at all, but now I see the light. A big thank you to all of the wealthy racists who’ve expressed their views on this board!
And props to all the SL students and grads who’ve contributed to this discussion—you’re more rational and knowledgeable than most others here, and I hope my daughter in a few years will benefit as much from a SLHS education as you have.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 15, 2007 02:30PM
Wow, Maxwell.
Couldn't have said it any better. Nice to have a summary for all the people who have not been around for the whole discussion.
Also, for the record, many of the elementary schools under consideration are closer to SL than to their current high schools.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2007 04:13PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Couldn't have said it any better. Nice to have a summary for all the people who have not been around for the whole discussion.
Also, for the record, many of the elementary schools under consideration are closer to SL than to their current high schools.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2007 04:13PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 15, 2007 05:41PM
My summary...
Madison, Oakton, Herndon, Westfield, Chantilly - would like things to stay the way they are
South Lakes - wants to increase their enrollemnt by drawing from the schools above
All - might as well keep all the insults and inuendo to yourself, both side have heard it all before - it goes nowhere
Madison, Oakton, Herndon, Westfield, Chantilly - would like things to stay the way they are
South Lakes - wants to increase their enrollemnt by drawing from the schools above
All - might as well keep all the insults and inuendo to yourself, both side have heard it all before - it goes nowhere
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
thinker
()
Date: October 15, 2007 05:49PM
Maxwell why don't you have about eight more kids so you can take care of the low numbers at SLHS yourself and then you can put them on the short bus for the short ride to school and then let them stay after and be members of the baseball team or the basketball team. You stay there and we will stay where we are, easy enough! Vote the right way NO redistricting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jimmy
()
Date: October 15, 2007 06:08PM
...and you might add that thinker will pay increased taxes to subsidize the less fortunate people
...Maxwell did make some valid and factual points, although it is not politically correct to promulgate such information
...Maxwell based upon your analysis of the issues, what members of the school board do you recommend in the upcoming election? opinions on other county candidates?
(I solicit your input in all seriousness--all the political posters along the roads are annoying. And I might add, I will not vote for anyone that calls me with a recorded message.)
...Maxwell did make some valid and factual points, although it is not politically correct to promulgate such information
...Maxwell based upon your analysis of the issues, what members of the school board do you recommend in the upcoming election? opinions on other county candidates?
(I solicit your input in all seriousness--all the political posters along the roads are annoying. And I might add, I will not vote for anyone that calls me with a recorded message.)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 16, 2007 02:29AM
You won't for anyone who calls you with information about a campaign? How strange. How do you plan to personally meet all the candidates?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jimmy
()
Date: October 16, 2007 04:56AM
I am hoping that this thread, as well as the local Connection, will provide more information on the candidates. I have read a lot of "hate" campaign material sent via the mail. I tend to believe this negative campaigning, or I think it would be libelous to send out; therefore, there are two candidates I would not vote for. I hope that the League of Women Voters will send out a pro and con for each candidate. Again, Neen, meeting a candidate via an annoying tape recorded message is not satisfactory. Kudos to Mr Frey, running for county clerk, who took the time to meet voters at recent Burke craft show.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 16, 2007 08:59AM
No, Maxwell, you haven't learned a thing. Most of this thread is about a group of people who don't see the need to change. We are happy with the schools/communities we have invested in, whether it be Herndon, Oakton, South Lakes or Chantilly; whether we be black/white/asian or honduran. Sure there are a few here that want to slam this school or that, but most of those involved in this boundary study are focused on the birdbrains that forced the situation. The school board who can't account for anything but their own agendas. Those who approve and spend money without a plan; who will never admit to making wrong decisions, yet are oh so williing to spend more money to fix them.
Especially one particular board member who refuses to listen to his constituents including those that attend South Lakes High School. This guy has how many non-performing schools in his district??? more than any other in the county. He has done what to fix this? Nothing. He has been in office for how long? This must be the wealthy racist you speak of.
Especially one particular board member who refuses to listen to his constituents including those that attend South Lakes High School. This guy has how many non-performing schools in his district??? more than any other in the county. He has done what to fix this? Nothing. He has been in office for how long? This must be the wealthy racist you speak of.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 16, 2007 10:03AM
Actually, I think Maxwell makes some excellent points - there is really very little difference between SAT scores and the like amongst the groups that would be affected by the transfer to SLHS - whites and asians. And frankly, from what I have heard, the leadership of SLHS is doing a fine job in maintaining discipline and order - because, frankly, they have to.
But let's not lose sight of what some are posting about here. As I have repeatedly stated, the academic performance in general of Fairfax County schools (save for TJ) is one of relative mediocrity, particularly when one looks at the income status of the homes that supply the students, and even more so when one looks at certain other higher income areas of the country (e.g., North Suburban Chicago schools), which do considerably better than the average school in Fairfax County in terms of academic achievement. Washington is a town of transplants - don't think that sharp, academically focused parents are not deep down aware of this state of affairs - and accordingly the success that Fairfax County does experience is due more than anything else to parental pushiness and involvement.
So to put it in perspective - concerned parents - already taxed in pushing their kids forward - just are not going to welcome the distraction that a move to SLHS represents. Like it or not - any rational parent will have to advise their kids to pay attention to a novel phenomena - that of outsize disciplinary and conduct problems. Further, and although I agree with Maxwell in that the perception is overblown - the whole discomfort of going to a school that for the most part (due to significant achievement gaps) must engage in a practice of "separate and unequal" (a phrase that Patrick Welsh at TC Williams - a brilliant chronicler of the challenges of teaching at TC and a published author) only adds to the alienation and fear that obtains.
And given this point of view- this is where I depart from Maxwell - for the most part, parents that are concerned are not "racist" - there are some very real negative behaviors that take place at SLHS - behaviors that occur at all schools but frankly with greater frequency and gravity at South Lakes. And this is not a solely a consequence of race, but of cultural factors as well that somehow have evolved to the point where fathers are absent from the home, education is not appreciated, and the nanny state (particularly in Reston) is seen by its recipients as a manipulative source of benefits rather than as any sort of authority to be respected. People do move to the suburbs to get away from these factors - and they should not be made to feel guilty about it - in fact, the incentives to raise a family in a safe and strong educational environment ought to be lauded rather than a marker of white or asian guilt.
In the end, I think the school system is doing what they have to do - they, to avoid an implosion at South Lakes, simply had to improve the physical condition of the school to accomodate imports - white and asian ones - at that - and these imports are really the only way to keep the school viable and keep the school's population from shrinking and the school from "flunking". As the Parents United case before the Supreme Court demonstrated - school success is all about race (why else would have Seattle and Louisville spent millions bringing their cases to the high court) - and white and asian students are very valuable pawns in that game. So while I think Maxwell's points are ones to be heard, they neglect to mention that the real nub of the issue - the game of racial Scrabble that school systems must play. It is the altar to which they now all pray, and it is disappointing to see once again that so few speak openly about it.
But let's not lose sight of what some are posting about here. As I have repeatedly stated, the academic performance in general of Fairfax County schools (save for TJ) is one of relative mediocrity, particularly when one looks at the income status of the homes that supply the students, and even more so when one looks at certain other higher income areas of the country (e.g., North Suburban Chicago schools), which do considerably better than the average school in Fairfax County in terms of academic achievement. Washington is a town of transplants - don't think that sharp, academically focused parents are not deep down aware of this state of affairs - and accordingly the success that Fairfax County does experience is due more than anything else to parental pushiness and involvement.
So to put it in perspective - concerned parents - already taxed in pushing their kids forward - just are not going to welcome the distraction that a move to SLHS represents. Like it or not - any rational parent will have to advise their kids to pay attention to a novel phenomena - that of outsize disciplinary and conduct problems. Further, and although I agree with Maxwell in that the perception is overblown - the whole discomfort of going to a school that for the most part (due to significant achievement gaps) must engage in a practice of "separate and unequal" (a phrase that Patrick Welsh at TC Williams - a brilliant chronicler of the challenges of teaching at TC and a published author) only adds to the alienation and fear that obtains.
And given this point of view- this is where I depart from Maxwell - for the most part, parents that are concerned are not "racist" - there are some very real negative behaviors that take place at SLHS - behaviors that occur at all schools but frankly with greater frequency and gravity at South Lakes. And this is not a solely a consequence of race, but of cultural factors as well that somehow have evolved to the point where fathers are absent from the home, education is not appreciated, and the nanny state (particularly in Reston) is seen by its recipients as a manipulative source of benefits rather than as any sort of authority to be respected. People do move to the suburbs to get away from these factors - and they should not be made to feel guilty about it - in fact, the incentives to raise a family in a safe and strong educational environment ought to be lauded rather than a marker of white or asian guilt.
In the end, I think the school system is doing what they have to do - they, to avoid an implosion at South Lakes, simply had to improve the physical condition of the school to accomodate imports - white and asian ones - at that - and these imports are really the only way to keep the school viable and keep the school's population from shrinking and the school from "flunking". As the Parents United case before the Supreme Court demonstrated - school success is all about race (why else would have Seattle and Louisville spent millions bringing their cases to the high court) - and white and asian students are very valuable pawns in that game. So while I think Maxwell's points are ones to be heard, they neglect to mention that the real nub of the issue - the game of racial Scrabble that school systems must play. It is the altar to which they now all pray, and it is disappointing to see once again that so few speak openly about it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 16, 2007 10:27AM
Quantum,
I am curious about your statement about the conduct problems at SL. From what I know as a SL parent, I don't hear about incidents as you describe--outsize disciplinary problems. I hear about the occasional fight, but they generally are overblown in the papers compared to what my kids and neighbors tell me.
I don't think you can just look at the statistics, either, because I'm sure there is variation in reporting depending on who the principal is. I've heard of incidences at Oakton from parents there that are not reported in the media, and I wouldn't be surprised if the school is downplaying the incidences. TRICKIE seems to think that there is massive underreporting going on across the board.
So, what are you basing these statements on?
I am curious about your statement about the conduct problems at SL. From what I know as a SL parent, I don't hear about incidents as you describe--outsize disciplinary problems. I hear about the occasional fight, but they generally are overblown in the papers compared to what my kids and neighbors tell me.
I don't think you can just look at the statistics, either, because I'm sure there is variation in reporting depending on who the principal is. I've heard of incidences at Oakton from parents there that are not reported in the media, and I wouldn't be surprised if the school is downplaying the incidences. TRICKIE seems to think that there is massive underreporting going on across the board.
So, what are you basing these statements on?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 16, 2007 11:00AM
Herndon HS PTA has a good website on the boundary process:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/BoundaryChangeCommittee.htm
If anyone cared to make such a map with school locations and capacity balances for current plus out years, put dots on for actual locations, along with current trailer counts - the public would have a better idea of what how public resources are not used. That is what I care about since I have to pay for them.
After last year I don't even see why this boundary process is occurring [waste of time and money]. My guess is no one is moving except for the Madison Island and perhaps Fox Mill. Why is Herndon in this process?
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/BoundaryChangeCommittee.htm
If anyone cared to make such a map with school locations and capacity balances for current plus out years, put dots on for actual locations, along with current trailer counts - the public would have a better idea of what how public resources are not used. That is what I care about since I have to pay for them.
After last year I don't even see why this boundary process is occurring [waste of time and money]. My guess is no one is moving except for the Madison Island and perhaps Fox Mill. Why is Herndon in this process?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 16, 2007 11:32AM
Ditto, Quantum. Where's the beef?
My kids have seen two fights in 7 years combined attendance at SLHS. One (last year) was a cafeteria fight -- quickly broken up; no one hurt -- that made the TV news here at the same time my nephew told us about a real scrap at a well-known, well-regarded FCPS high school he attends.
The word is that Bruce Butler, the SLHS Principal, reports everything and anything (and the rumor is that other schools don't...feel they need to), and he doesn't tolerate even minor infractions.
Elegant language doesn't cover the fact that you are insinuating that:
(a) "Schools with lots of racial and ethnic diversity are bad. Gangs regularly torment students at such schools."...as articulated above by Maxwell; and
(b) SLHS is a dangerous place, b/c "fathers are absent from the home, education is not appreciated, and the nanny state (particularly in Reston) is seen by its recipients as a manipulative source of benefits rather than as any sort of authority to be respected", as you state.
However, one says it (e.g., "outsize disciplinary and conduct problems"), "bluntly" or euphemistically: It just ain't so; it's misleading; and it's cracker/racist talk.
PS: I still have family and many friends in the northern Chicago suburbs, and those schools, while very good, have warts, too, and are hardly head and shoulders above the FCPS system.....even the vaunted New Trier.
My kids have seen two fights in 7 years combined attendance at SLHS. One (last year) was a cafeteria fight -- quickly broken up; no one hurt -- that made the TV news here at the same time my nephew told us about a real scrap at a well-known, well-regarded FCPS high school he attends.
The word is that Bruce Butler, the SLHS Principal, reports everything and anything (and the rumor is that other schools don't...feel they need to), and he doesn't tolerate even minor infractions.
Elegant language doesn't cover the fact that you are insinuating that:
(a) "Schools with lots of racial and ethnic diversity are bad. Gangs regularly torment students at such schools."...as articulated above by Maxwell; and
(b) SLHS is a dangerous place, b/c "fathers are absent from the home, education is not appreciated, and the nanny state (particularly in Reston) is seen by its recipients as a manipulative source of benefits rather than as any sort of authority to be respected", as you state.
However, one says it (e.g., "outsize disciplinary and conduct problems"), "bluntly" or euphemistically: It just ain't so; it's misleading; and it's cracker/racist talk.
PS: I still have family and many friends in the northern Chicago suburbs, and those schools, while very good, have warts, too, and are hardly head and shoulders above the FCPS system.....even the vaunted New Trier.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 16, 2007 12:47PM
Taxpayer,
I asked the question about capacity numbers--does capacity include trailers or not? If it does, then there still may be an overcapacity problem. I don't know where to find this information.
I asked the question about capacity numbers--does capacity include trailers or not? If it does, then there still may be an overcapacity problem. I don't know where to find this information.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 16, 2007 01:49PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxpayer,
> I asked the question about capacity numbers--does
> capacity include trailers or not? If it does,
> then there still may be an overcapacity problem.
> I don't know where to find this information.
go to the CIP- in the back of the document detail sheets show the trailers supposedly for overcrowding parked at any given site:
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cipbook2008-2012.pdf
However FCPS might have old trailers just sitting like abandonned cars at some sites yet lists them on this document. I've seen a parko for strings with infrequent use ...These things are expensive.
Who knows? best info is from kids at schools on trailer usage. CIP also does not reflect chnages in core facilities like at Lake Braddock [renovation/addition] v schools like Chantilly where they park modulars. Hughes showed 7 trailers - yet way under capacity. Hunters Woods is always a trailer park.
school locations-
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/taskforce07/documents/transportationareas07-08.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/taskforce07/documents/index.htm
fall 2006 trailer maps and possible facility utilization ignoring abandonned car effect]:
http://southcountymiddleschool.org/uploads/Total_County_2006_FCPS_Load_Map.pdf
There is no easy answer to building utilization other than treating everyone the same and using the buildings...the upside to that is lower property taxes. People do hope to bond with schools but when you're talking public schools that serve geopgraphic areas we have two types of schools: community and regional. To a watcher of school board maneuvering, they want South Lakes [Reston's community school] to NOT become a regional school [ie Westfields/Langley] but to change people's community identification. That is the problem here.
Last year they booted Lorton people out of South County which is on the Lorton prison site. meanwhile they left in FFX Station people who want to be South County community.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxpayer,
> I asked the question about capacity numbers--does
> capacity include trailers or not? If it does,
> then there still may be an overcapacity problem.
> I don't know where to find this information.
go to the CIP- in the back of the document detail sheets show the trailers supposedly for overcrowding parked at any given site:
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cipbook2008-2012.pdf
However FCPS might have old trailers just sitting like abandonned cars at some sites yet lists them on this document. I've seen a parko for strings with infrequent use ...These things are expensive.
Who knows? best info is from kids at schools on trailer usage. CIP also does not reflect chnages in core facilities like at Lake Braddock [renovation/addition] v schools like Chantilly where they park modulars. Hughes showed 7 trailers - yet way under capacity. Hunters Woods is always a trailer park.
school locations-
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/taskforce07/documents/transportationareas07-08.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/taskforce07/documents/index.htm
fall 2006 trailer maps and possible facility utilization ignoring abandonned car effect]:
http://southcountymiddleschool.org/uploads/Total_County_2006_FCPS_Load_Map.pdf
There is no easy answer to building utilization other than treating everyone the same and using the buildings...the upside to that is lower property taxes. People do hope to bond with schools but when you're talking public schools that serve geopgraphic areas we have two types of schools: community and regional. To a watcher of school board maneuvering, they want South Lakes [Reston's community school] to NOT become a regional school [ie Westfields/Langley] but to change people's community identification. That is the problem here.
Last year they booted Lorton people out of South County which is on the Lorton prison site. meanwhile they left in FFX Station people who want to be South County community.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
former SL Student
()
Date: October 17, 2007 01:42PM
I think this is pretty absurd how ignorant most of the people posting on this topic are. You can look at all of the statistics all you want but you never went to South Lakes but yet all you do is comment and complain on what you believe to be. Scores maybe lower then other schools in the northern Virginia Area but there are things that have to be taken into account. SL has a great program for LD and Mentally retarded student which results in lower test scores obviously. Also the number of students who are not fluent in english obviously do not score as much. But who actually cares? True you get more funding for better scores, but if your student goes to South Lakes and actually trys! they can go anywhere they want. If your student gets good grades they can go where they want. I have close friends from the class of 2006 who went to Princeton, Berklee, Naval Academy, Air force academy, Juliard, Notre Dame, GWU, and all of the Virginia schools(UVA, W&M, Tech, etc). I know for a fact that the graduating class this year is sending people even more places. You think your student cant go places if southlakes "has a bad academic reputation" then they can stand out in their class.
Every talks about violence and gangs at south lakes. In my 4 years at South Lakes I never saw a fight at South Lakes. Which I am surprised at I must admit. But never once did I feel scared or intimidated at South Lakes. They only time I heard about fights at SL was when racial issues were the cause. Like when a white transfer student from Langley called my middle eastern friend a terrorist. I know that South Lakes does not have the same clique high school stereotype culture that other schools have. There are no jocks that making fun of nerds, or drunk kids that pick fights with kids in the hall. You havent gone to south lakes, you probably havent even been to south lakes, but yet you act like its a inner city school. Try opening your mind and stop being rich, narrow minded and try learning how to interact with all people of the world. Thats whats going to help you in the long run, not being a scared, ignorant, and naive individual which is the type of student that schools like langley produce.
Drugs on the other hand is a hugely lopsided issue. South Lakes is probably the most mild school when it comes to drugs and alcohol. I have witnessed it 1st hand and it is not a big deal at South Lakes. But schools such as mcclean and langley are where there are major problems. When your a rich kid with lots of money and no time, drugs come into play, and bad drugs at that. I have worked and talked with alot of students from other schools and they all say the same thing. While all you parents are on your high horse, your kids are out in your bmw, driving drunk and doing coke. Dont believe me, go to one of the parties that one parent allows and thats the only time you'll see kids doing lines in a bedroom. I have never seen that at a south lakes party. You read in the paper about people dying in car accidents with alcohol and drugs involved. Where do they happen and who does it happen to? I think everyone can answer that, daddys little girl or boy driving high and drunk. Its about time you educate your children in more ways then one.
South Lakes is a good school, but like every school needs improvement. They are renovating the school as we speak and Mr. Butler is/has enforced rules that will surely bring South Lakes reputation back to a widely accepted level. But dont talk about South Lakes when you know nothing about it, you have no idea.
Every talks about violence and gangs at south lakes. In my 4 years at South Lakes I never saw a fight at South Lakes. Which I am surprised at I must admit. But never once did I feel scared or intimidated at South Lakes. They only time I heard about fights at SL was when racial issues were the cause. Like when a white transfer student from Langley called my middle eastern friend a terrorist. I know that South Lakes does not have the same clique high school stereotype culture that other schools have. There are no jocks that making fun of nerds, or drunk kids that pick fights with kids in the hall. You havent gone to south lakes, you probably havent even been to south lakes, but yet you act like its a inner city school. Try opening your mind and stop being rich, narrow minded and try learning how to interact with all people of the world. Thats whats going to help you in the long run, not being a scared, ignorant, and naive individual which is the type of student that schools like langley produce.
Drugs on the other hand is a hugely lopsided issue. South Lakes is probably the most mild school when it comes to drugs and alcohol. I have witnessed it 1st hand and it is not a big deal at South Lakes. But schools such as mcclean and langley are where there are major problems. When your a rich kid with lots of money and no time, drugs come into play, and bad drugs at that. I have worked and talked with alot of students from other schools and they all say the same thing. While all you parents are on your high horse, your kids are out in your bmw, driving drunk and doing coke. Dont believe me, go to one of the parties that one parent allows and thats the only time you'll see kids doing lines in a bedroom. I have never seen that at a south lakes party. You read in the paper about people dying in car accidents with alcohol and drugs involved. Where do they happen and who does it happen to? I think everyone can answer that, daddys little girl or boy driving high and drunk. Its about time you educate your children in more ways then one.
South Lakes is a good school, but like every school needs improvement. They are renovating the school as we speak and Mr. Butler is/has enforced rules that will surely bring South Lakes reputation back to a widely accepted level. But dont talk about South Lakes when you know nothing about it, you have no idea.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: October 17, 2007 01:53PM
You can judge the school by the way its former students perform. One indicator is how well they can articulate their ideas in English in the Fairfax Underground. Some students are terrific examples of native intelligence and top academics. Others are a sorrowful testament to a host of other less favorable conditions, both nature and nurturing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 17, 2007 02:27PM
Taxpayer,
It looks to me from the trailer maps like the trailers ARE included in the school's capacity numbers. If that is the case, then it would seem that many of the schools we are discussing are in fact overcrowded, because trailers don't account for lack of cafeteria or other common space. Westfield has 18 trailers. Yikes!
It looks like South Lakes will have no trailers--yay for us!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2007 02:30PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
It looks to me from the trailer maps like the trailers ARE included in the school's capacity numbers. If that is the case, then it would seem that many of the schools we are discussing are in fact overcrowded, because trailers don't account for lack of cafeteria or other common space. Westfield has 18 trailers. Yikes!
It looks like South Lakes will have no trailers--yay for us!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2007 02:30PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 17, 2007 03:35PM
The point of me calling them abandoned cars is that sometimes FCPS leaves overcrowding related trailers at sites that are no longer in use. I don't know what they're used for at schools unless my kids are actually there. What are the trailers at Hughes? Since I called myself taxpayer, I will say that South Lakes is a good return on investment. IB is a pricey program and kids can gt the full diploma at SL's even at it's current enrollment. Small class sizes?? I did like the 2 caf dining rooms.
Langley has problems beyond those noted by SL's grad. Not a good situation and bad admins.
Langley has problems beyond those noted by SL's grad. Not a good situation and bad admins.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 17, 2007 03:53PM
If they redistrict everybody they plan, SLHS will have trailers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 17, 2007 04:36PM
Cricket,
Since SL is not including trailers in its capacity numbers, it won't be adding them when it's full capacity.
Since SL is not including trailers in its capacity numbers, it won't be adding them when it's full capacity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 17, 2007 05:02PM
They said this at Westfield when it was being built. There will eventually be trailers. It always happens. The numbers they produce from voodoo are never accurate. If you look at the targeted neighborhoods/communities they want to send to SLHS, it will be overcrowded in a year.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: October 17, 2007 10:33PM
there are four or five trailers at hughes
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Feynman
()
Date: October 17, 2007 10:53PM
It seems like South Lake's reputation has little to do with the students' opinions and experiences and more to do with parents' cocktail party bragging rights. No parent wants to explain away how their kid's school is "improving" or the value of "diversity" when they are really after the oohs and ahhs about how smart their kids must be to go to a high-performing school. Take a mid-pack kid at TJ and put her in South Lakes, and she'll get into MIT instead of Tech. This fear of putting kids in South Lakes has nothing to do with educating kids or helping them succeed and everything to do with parents living vicariously and their own social standing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
whatitis
()
Date: October 17, 2007 11:41PM
Here's a student opinion or is that an experience...
(page 2)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: South Lake Tyrone (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2007 06:28PM
Bob James Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...at least the psychodrama may lead to catharsis
I need me some vanilla meat curtains. Mmmm, mmmm, mmm.
(page 2)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: South Lake Tyrone (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2007 06:28PM
Bob James Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...at least the psychodrama may lead to catharsis
I need me some vanilla meat curtains. Mmmm, mmmm, mmm.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 01:19AM
The idea that anyone can stop the redistricting through a lawsuit is seriously delusional. Drawing the boundaries of attendance areas is a legislative act to which the courts give great deference. To prevail one would have to show that the decision was arbitrary and capricious. Even in the unlikely event that relevant admissible evidence could be presented to show the decision was arbitrary and capricious, if the School Board presents evidence to justify the reasonableness of its decision so as to make the issue fairly debatable, the School Board wins, you lose! This is an extraordinary high level of proof. The lawsuit would cost $200,000-500,000 and take three or more years to get through the trial and the appeals. Meanwhile, your kids would be going to, and graduating from, their new high school.
There are better uses of your time, energy, emotions and money than a lawsuit that has very little chance of success.
More later.
There are better uses of your time, energy, emotions and money than a lawsuit that has very little chance of success.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 18, 2007 04:10AM
I wasn't being presumptuous. A few years back students were moved from Herndon high to Langley. NOT ONE WORD of objection. Kids moved out of Hayfield to South county, with no even a whimper. When kids are taken out of bad schools and put in better schools, there are very few objections. If South lakes kids had to go to Madison, Oakton, and Herndon, there would be very few complaints.
Kids coming from all over to TJ is not really a problem. Yes, mom and dad have to travel more to pick up their kid, for the first year or two until the student can drive himself. Most TJ parents don't mind driving across the county. Think of the diversity that their child we experience!
Why would West Field students opt in to Chantilly? Would hundreds of students do that? An academy is a good idea. They could start a bunch of academies at South Lakes, if STu Gibson won't allow a real magnet, like the parents want.
Kids coming from all over to TJ is not really a problem. Yes, mom and dad have to travel more to pick up their kid, for the first year or two until the student can drive himself. Most TJ parents don't mind driving across the county. Think of the diversity that their child we experience!
Why would West Field students opt in to Chantilly? Would hundreds of students do that? An academy is a good idea. They could start a bunch of academies at South Lakes, if STu Gibson won't allow a real magnet, like the parents want.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 18, 2007 06:45AM
It seems to me the South Lakes community is taking a lot of pleasure in this whole process. So let's just tell it like it is.
No surrounding community wants to attend your lame ass school for all of the reasons outlined on this website. Your enrollment has declined because families avoid the South Lakes area like the plague. You created this mess with all of your project housing. You will have to deal with it without sucking in other white and asian students to bail you out on test scores - how bout those SOLs and failing feeder schools. There will be law suits and this will be stalled... arbitrary how about leaving out Langley and Madison proper - they border South Lakes. Incumbant School Board members Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith will be shown the door and given a swift kick in the ass. South Lakes is the worst school in this area as evidenced by the data on the county web site. You all should be ashamed of yourselves for sucking other into the horrendous mess you created. Like your momma told you - you make a mess, you clean it up.
No surrounding community wants to attend your lame ass school for all of the reasons outlined on this website. Your enrollment has declined because families avoid the South Lakes area like the plague. You created this mess with all of your project housing. You will have to deal with it without sucking in other white and asian students to bail you out on test scores - how bout those SOLs and failing feeder schools. There will be law suits and this will be stalled... arbitrary how about leaving out Langley and Madison proper - they border South Lakes. Incumbant School Board members Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith will be shown the door and given a swift kick in the ass. South Lakes is the worst school in this area as evidenced by the data on the county web site. You all should be ashamed of yourselves for sucking other into the horrendous mess you created. Like your momma told you - you make a mess, you clean it up.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 18, 2007 06:48AM
whatitis and South Lake Tyrone
Race baiting doesn't help find a solution to your socioeconomic status and under achievement.
Race baiting doesn't help find a solution to your socioeconomic status and under achievement.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 11:41AM
All of the Madison attendance area is part of the boundary study. Although the Langley attendance area does not directly border South Lakes, the Forestville and Great Falls attendance areas should be added to the study. The entire area west of Springvale attended Herndon not that long ago.
That would enable Aldrin and Armstrong to be added to South Lakes. Both schools attendance areas are predominantly located in Reston. Reston kids should go to Reston's high school: South Lakes.
Be advise, more kids were pupil placed into South Lakes than out of South Lakes this year. Most wanted to get into the IB program.
That still leaves Westfields overcrowded.
More later.
That would enable Aldrin and Armstrong to be added to South Lakes. Both schools attendance areas are predominantly located in Reston. Reston kids should go to Reston's high school: South Lakes.
Be advise, more kids were pupil placed into South Lakes than out of South Lakes this year. Most wanted to get into the IB program.
That still leaves Westfields overcrowded.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Rodney
()
Date: October 18, 2007 12:15PM
The only part of Madison that is included in the study is the "Madison Island"
Langey does border South Lakes currently, even more so if the "Madison Island" is eliminated
Both Madison (all) and Langley should be part of the study.
Westfield is not overcrowded. Westfield is not complaining. Westfield just had a huge addition.
Langey does border South Lakes currently, even more so if the "Madison Island" is eliminated
Both Madison (all) and Langley should be part of the study.
Westfield is not overcrowded. Westfield is not complaining. Westfield just had a huge addition.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 18, 2007 12:41PM
This whole process would be a lot easier if they did not ignore the elephant in the room -langley and the Forestville Elementary attendance area.
Plus the Colvin Run neighborhood [Langley]that accesses Hunter Mill between the Madison Island and SL's areas.
Forestville/Langley does border Forest Edge/South Lakes for a wide stretch along Route 7.
Gibson weirdly still has his Reston HOA Field view /stones Throw people at Forestville instead of Aldrin [hugely undercapacity] and Forestville borders Herndon feeders like Dranesville also. Anyone know where the bowling alley is located? Herndon or Sterling?
Forestville got a modular building even though it is on a septic site and we have to pay pump and haul. That site was bubbling up and Gibson/Strauss gave it a modular rather than move anyone out to other schools years ago.
They could have at least parked the mobile building at a different site.
Although the Langley attendance
> area does not directly border South Lakes, the
> Forestville and Great Falls attendance areas
> should be added to the study. The entire area
> west of Springvale attended Herndon not that long
> ago.
see above on Langley boundaries - correct on Springvale - but not other point...
Plus the Colvin Run neighborhood [Langley]that accesses Hunter Mill between the Madison Island and SL's areas.
Forestville/Langley does border Forest Edge/South Lakes for a wide stretch along Route 7.
Gibson weirdly still has his Reston HOA Field view /stones Throw people at Forestville instead of Aldrin [hugely undercapacity] and Forestville borders Herndon feeders like Dranesville also. Anyone know where the bowling alley is located? Herndon or Sterling?
Forestville got a modular building even though it is on a septic site and we have to pay pump and haul. That site was bubbling up and Gibson/Strauss gave it a modular rather than move anyone out to other schools years ago.
They could have at least parked the mobile building at a different site.
Although the Langley attendance
> area does not directly border South Lakes, the
> Forestville and Great Falls attendance areas
> should be added to the study. The entire area
> west of Springvale attended Herndon not that long
> ago.
see above on Langley boundaries - correct on Springvale - but not other point...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 18, 2007 02:31PM
Went to the South Lakes PTA meeting last night. Straight from Bruce Butler--43 students placed into SL this year, 16 placed out.
Also discussed was the reasons for declining enrollment--one is that a lot of retirees have chosen to stay in Reston, not allowing turnover. Also, much of the development in Reston is of the condo variety--not bought by people with kids. Another theory is the difficulty imposed by RA on renovating homes. So, there are lots of reasons.
Gibson was asked about the Langley boundary and why Langley is not included in the study. His answer was blather, so not worth repeating, even if I could remember it.
Sounds like AP ,may be on the table.
Also discussed was the reasons for declining enrollment--one is that a lot of retirees have chosen to stay in Reston, not allowing turnover. Also, much of the development in Reston is of the condo variety--not bought by people with kids. Another theory is the difficulty imposed by RA on renovating homes. So, there are lots of reasons.
Gibson was asked about the Langley boundary and why Langley is not included in the study. His answer was blather, so not worth repeating, even if I could remember it.
Sounds like AP ,may be on the table.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 18, 2007 02:54PM
Taxpayer,
You're posts are spot on, lots of good information.
I'm sure you know that the tax rate will be raised next year to make up for our lower assessments. Connelly would have loved to do it this year, but with the whole board up for re election, he couldn't do it. Once Connelly is re elected, he and the democrat board will be VERY happy to raise the tax rate, ASAP.
I heard this at a meeting between the school superintendent and the county executive, a year ago. People in the education community wanted the tax rate raised this year, 2008, but the county executive explained that couldn't happen until after the election. School officials were bummed. Being good democrats, they never met a tax that couldn't be increased. They can't wait to take more money out of our pockets to pay for those low performing schools that they lack the will(not money) to fix.
You're posts are spot on, lots of good information.
I'm sure you know that the tax rate will be raised next year to make up for our lower assessments. Connelly would have loved to do it this year, but with the whole board up for re election, he couldn't do it. Once Connelly is re elected, he and the democrat board will be VERY happy to raise the tax rate, ASAP.
I heard this at a meeting between the school superintendent and the county executive, a year ago. People in the education community wanted the tax rate raised this year, 2008, but the county executive explained that couldn't happen until after the election. School officials were bummed. Being good democrats, they never met a tax that couldn't be increased. They can't wait to take more money out of our pockets to pay for those low performing schools that they lack the will(not money) to fix.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 18, 2007 03:03PM
Yes, South Lakes will try to claim that they have an AP program, to prevent parents from using that as an avenue out.
Did Bruce Butler say that 43 students voluntarily placed into South Lakes last year? Or were sent there when they were expelled from other high schools? Or the school population simply increased by 43? Or some of them came there for one language class? I find it VERY hard to believe that 43 students want the IB program over AP. If that were true, why bother with an AP program? If that were true, all schools with IB would be increasing in population and schools with AP would be decreasing. That has never happened.
Yes, Reston has lots of problems attracting families with children, for a whole variety of reasons. That's what the people of Reston have chosen. They want more high rises, more condos, more of an urban landscape, with no new single family homes or additions on existing homes. Great! Their CHOICE. I fully support communities deciding how they want their community to be. But they should not ask others, outside of Reston, to pay for those choices. Children whose families never wanted to live in urban Reston shouldn't be forced to attend schools in Reston simply because the decisions of Reston residents result in fewer students to attend their schools. Don't make people outside of Reston pay for YOUR choices. Let them also choose their community, and their community schools.
Did Bruce Butler say that 43 students voluntarily placed into South Lakes last year? Or were sent there when they were expelled from other high schools? Or the school population simply increased by 43? Or some of them came there for one language class? I find it VERY hard to believe that 43 students want the IB program over AP. If that were true, why bother with an AP program? If that were true, all schools with IB would be increasing in population and schools with AP would be decreasing. That has never happened.
Yes, Reston has lots of problems attracting families with children, for a whole variety of reasons. That's what the people of Reston have chosen. They want more high rises, more condos, more of an urban landscape, with no new single family homes or additions on existing homes. Great! Their CHOICE. I fully support communities deciding how they want their community to be. But they should not ask others, outside of Reston, to pay for those choices. Children whose families never wanted to live in urban Reston shouldn't be forced to attend schools in Reston simply because the decisions of Reston residents result in fewer students to attend their schools. Don't make people outside of Reston pay for YOUR choices. Let them also choose their community, and their community schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: October 18, 2007 03:12PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Went to the South Lakes PTA meeting last night.
> Straight from Bruce Butler--43 students placed
> into SL this year, 16 placed out.
>
> Also discussed was the reasons for declining
> enrollment--one is that a lot of retirees have
> chosen to stay in Reston, not allowing turnover.
> Also, much of the development in Reston is of the
> condo variety--not bought by people with kids.
> Another theory is the difficulty imposed by RA on
> renovating homes. So, there are lots of reasons.
>
> Gibson was asked about the Langley boundary and
> why Langley is not included in the study. His
> answer was blather, so not worth repeating, even
> if I could remember it.
>
> Sounds like AP ,may be on the table.
Thanks for the update. I hope some of the positive info regarding SL gets out. Any more specifics on AP?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Went to the South Lakes PTA meeting last night.
> Straight from Bruce Butler--43 students placed
> into SL this year, 16 placed out.
>
> Also discussed was the reasons for declining
> enrollment--one is that a lot of retirees have
> chosen to stay in Reston, not allowing turnover.
> Also, much of the development in Reston is of the
> condo variety--not bought by people with kids.
> Another theory is the difficulty imposed by RA on
> renovating homes. So, there are lots of reasons.
>
> Gibson was asked about the Langley boundary and
> why Langley is not included in the study. His
> answer was blather, so not worth repeating, even
> if I could remember it.
>
> Sounds like AP ,may be on the table.
Thanks for the update. I hope some of the positive info regarding SL gets out. Any more specifics on AP?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 18, 2007 03:13PM
Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith and Janie Strauss have made it quite clear that Langley high school boundaries will not be involved in any redistricting. Off the table. Period. When they are re elected, Stu will decide who goes to South Lakes, and it will be NO Langley high school students. Period. Done.
When Armstrong and Aldrin are sent to South Lakes (Stu's number ONE priority), Herndon high school goes right down the drain. Adios!
Not to say that Stu cares about Herndon. He obviously doesn't, it's not his district., Apparently Janie Strauss doesn't care either since she's agreed to this plan. A deal has been made, Stu can devastate Herndon high school, as long as he doesn't touch any part of Langley district. Nice, huh? And not a darn thing that anyone can do to stop it, other than vote against the bums who have made the deal. If they're re elected, they'll get exactly what they want. They always do.
When Armstrong and Aldrin are sent to South Lakes (Stu's number ONE priority), Herndon high school goes right down the drain. Adios!
Not to say that Stu cares about Herndon. He obviously doesn't, it's not his district., Apparently Janie Strauss doesn't care either since she's agreed to this plan. A deal has been made, Stu can devastate Herndon high school, as long as he doesn't touch any part of Langley district. Nice, huh? And not a darn thing that anyone can do to stop it, other than vote against the bums who have made the deal. If they're re elected, they'll get exactly what they want. They always do.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 18, 2007 03:36PM
Yes, Neen, VOLUNTARILY placed in because they WANT to be there. You really are very rude, especially when FACTS get in the way of your silly arguments.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2007 03:40PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2007 03:40PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 18, 2007 03:51PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Neen, VOLUNTARILY placed in because they WANT
> to be there. You really are very rude, especially
> when FACTS get in the way of your silly arguments.
I don't dislike South Lakes - I loathe the School Board members who created this situation. Why would anyone vote for Gibson? Stu/Strauss/Zone/mendellsohn did this to South Lakes. Stu's had 12 years and now is trying to redecorate a bath while not installing a tub. What do they think people are? Stupid...
Anybody can see where people live on the boundary maps -- Sugarland to Langley? Gag me.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Neen, VOLUNTARILY placed in because they WANT
> to be there. You really are very rude, especially
> when FACTS get in the way of your silly arguments.
I don't dislike South Lakes - I loathe the School Board members who created this situation. Why would anyone vote for Gibson? Stu/Strauss/Zone/mendellsohn did this to South Lakes. Stu's had 12 years and now is trying to redecorate a bath while not installing a tub. What do they think people are? Stupid...
Anybody can see where people live on the boundary maps -- Sugarland to Langley? Gag me.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: October 18, 2007 03:59PM
Neen,
You also seem to forget that Armstrong and Aldrin are part of Reston - I would be fine with all Reston schools going to South Lakes. The only time you mention it is when you refer to the impact of the loss of those schools on Herndon. These schools are part of the Reston community you so like to put down.
You would be better off sticking to why your specific neighborhood should not be changed then constantly blasting SL and Reston.
You also seem to forget that Armstrong and Aldrin are part of Reston - I would be fine with all Reston schools going to South Lakes. The only time you mention it is when you refer to the impact of the loss of those schools on Herndon. These schools are part of the Reston community you so like to put down.
You would be better off sticking to why your specific neighborhood should not be changed then constantly blasting SL and Reston.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 05:14PM
taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This whole process would be a lot easier if they
> did not ignore the elephant in the room -langley
> and the Forestville Elementary attendance area.
>
> Plus the Colvin Run neighborhood that accesses
> Hunter Mill between the Madison Island and SL's
> areas.
>
> Forestville/Langley does border Forest Edge/South
> Lakes for a wide stretch along Route 7.
Thanks for the correction on the Forest Edge/Forestville common boundary. Happy add to Colvin Run to the discussion, especially if Madison needs it to make up for losing the Wolf Trap Island.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> This whole process would be a lot easier if they
> did not ignore the elephant in the room -langley
> and the Forestville Elementary attendance area.
>
> Plus the Colvin Run neighborhood that accesses
> Hunter Mill between the Madison Island and SL's
> areas.
>
> Forestville/Langley does border Forest Edge/South
> Lakes for a wide stretch along Route 7.
Thanks for the correction on the Forest Edge/Forestville common boundary. Happy add to Colvin Run to the discussion, especially if Madison needs it to make up for losing the Wolf Trap Island.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 05:25PM
> Gibson was asked about the Langley boundary and
> why Langley is not included in the study. His
> answer was blather, so not worth repeating,
> even if I could remember it.
Lets get both Hunter Mill and all of the at large candidates pinned down on this. If there is a difference, vote the difference. Simply put: Mr./Ms. candidate will you vote to expand the boundary study area to include Forestville, Great Falls and Colvin Run? Yes or No.
It is the single burning issue in the school system this year it should be hard to dodge.
> why Langley is not included in the study. His
> answer was blather, so not worth repeating,
> even if I could remember it.
Lets get both Hunter Mill and all of the at large candidates pinned down on this. If there is a difference, vote the difference. Simply put: Mr./Ms. candidate will you vote to expand the boundary study area to include Forestville, Great Falls and Colvin Run? Yes or No.
It is the single burning issue in the school system this year it should be hard to dodge.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 18, 2007 05:29PM
I know at least one of the 43 placed into SLHS las year was an expellee from another school
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CT
()
Date: October 18, 2007 05:55PM
I am an Oakton student and I come from Herndon. I like South Lakes fine. I have many friends who have gone there and come out better people for it. I just don't want to be taken out of a school where I have found my niche. It's not about White Suburbia, It's not about the upper-middle class. Considering I live in a relatively poor neighboorhood for Northern Virginia. For me it's about who I've grown up with and what team I've grown up rooting for. Go Cougars.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 06:12PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, South Lakes will try to claim that they have
> an AP program, to prevent parents from using that
> as an avenue out.
>
> Yes, Reston has lots of problems attracting
> families with children, for a whole variety of
> reasons. That's what the people of Reston have
> chosen. They want more high rises, more condos,
> more of an urban landscape, with no new single
> family homes or additions on existing homes.
> Great! Their CHOICE. I fully support communities
> deciding how they want their community to be. But
> they should not ask others, outside of Reston, to
> pay for those choices. Children whose families
> never wanted to live in urban Reston shouldn't be
> forced to attend schools in Reston simply because
> the decisions of Reston residents result in fewer
> students to attend their schools. Don't make
> people outside of Reston pay for YOUR choices.
> Let them also choose their community, and their
> community schools.
I'm opposed to IB too. But if more people are attracted to it than seek AP elsewhere, it means fewer kids have to have their boundary changed.
We also know that several of the out placed former SL students who claimed they were moving for AP were really trying to get away from the miserable coaching staff of too many South Lakes teams, baseball being the largest number. People do this all the time. Many of us remember Kara Lawson's odyssey around Fairfax in search of a pliable coach before she went off to Pat Summit and ESPN.
Even if one accounts for all the families who moved out of Reston to escape Railly Rodreguiz (South Lakes' former disaster of a prinicpal), it doesn’t explain the 700 child shortfall in enrollment at South Lakes. My 25 year old neighborhood gives the good explanation for this shortfall. When we moved here in 1984 there were over 24 kids in these 32 houses. Now there are three. Many of the long present homeowners are empty nesters who stayed in the neighborhood after their children left for college because They Like Reston. The other houses that were formerly occupied by families with children are now occupied by single people with roomates helping to pay the mortgage or young couple with no kids. The principal reason is that these circa 1980 “starter” homes have increase in value by 320% since we moved in and 700% since they were first built. Most of that appreciation happened during the final years of Railly's reign of terror! Families with kids get a bigger house and lot at a lower price per square foot buying a house in Winchester, Martinsburg, WV or Harrisburg, PA and that's where they are moving to. There haven’t been a significant number of new single family detached houses or townhouses built in the South Lakes or Herndon attendance areas in 15 years and there won't be either. It's a natural evolution seen in every community across the County and across the nation that started construction in 1965.
The high rises and condos contemplated near the Metro stations won't generate many kids either.
Aldrin and Armstrong are part of Reston and those kids belong at South Lakes.
If you don't want Fox Mill, McNair or Floris added to Herndon, and I'm not sure why, get Strauss to expand the study to include Forestville, Great Falls or Colvin Run. Ask her and her opponent the question before the election and vote the difference. Write a letter to the Editor of the Observer and demand a straight answer from Strauss.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, South Lakes will try to claim that they have
> an AP program, to prevent parents from using that
> as an avenue out.
>
> Yes, Reston has lots of problems attracting
> families with children, for a whole variety of
> reasons. That's what the people of Reston have
> chosen. They want more high rises, more condos,
> more of an urban landscape, with no new single
> family homes or additions on existing homes.
> Great! Their CHOICE. I fully support communities
> deciding how they want their community to be. But
> they should not ask others, outside of Reston, to
> pay for those choices. Children whose families
> never wanted to live in urban Reston shouldn't be
> forced to attend schools in Reston simply because
> the decisions of Reston residents result in fewer
> students to attend their schools. Don't make
> people outside of Reston pay for YOUR choices.
> Let them also choose their community, and their
> community schools.
I'm opposed to IB too. But if more people are attracted to it than seek AP elsewhere, it means fewer kids have to have their boundary changed.
We also know that several of the out placed former SL students who claimed they were moving for AP were really trying to get away from the miserable coaching staff of too many South Lakes teams, baseball being the largest number. People do this all the time. Many of us remember Kara Lawson's odyssey around Fairfax in search of a pliable coach before she went off to Pat Summit and ESPN.
Even if one accounts for all the families who moved out of Reston to escape Railly Rodreguiz (South Lakes' former disaster of a prinicpal), it doesn’t explain the 700 child shortfall in enrollment at South Lakes. My 25 year old neighborhood gives the good explanation for this shortfall. When we moved here in 1984 there were over 24 kids in these 32 houses. Now there are three. Many of the long present homeowners are empty nesters who stayed in the neighborhood after their children left for college because They Like Reston. The other houses that were formerly occupied by families with children are now occupied by single people with roomates helping to pay the mortgage or young couple with no kids. The principal reason is that these circa 1980 “starter” homes have increase in value by 320% since we moved in and 700% since they were first built. Most of that appreciation happened during the final years of Railly's reign of terror! Families with kids get a bigger house and lot at a lower price per square foot buying a house in Winchester, Martinsburg, WV or Harrisburg, PA and that's where they are moving to. There haven’t been a significant number of new single family detached houses or townhouses built in the South Lakes or Herndon attendance areas in 15 years and there won't be either. It's a natural evolution seen in every community across the County and across the nation that started construction in 1965.
The high rises and condos contemplated near the Metro stations won't generate many kids either.
Aldrin and Armstrong are part of Reston and those kids belong at South Lakes.
If you don't want Fox Mill, McNair or Floris added to Herndon, and I'm not sure why, get Strauss to expand the study to include Forestville, Great Falls or Colvin Run. Ask her and her opponent the question before the election and vote the difference. Write a letter to the Editor of the Observer and demand a straight answer from Strauss.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CT
()
Date: October 18, 2007 06:28PM
Can someone tell me if theyre moving current students aswell?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 06:31PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know at least one of the 43 placed into SLHS las
> year was an expellee from another school
The 43 were just the number who VOLUNTARILY transferred for academic reasons. The number of in-placements was many more than 43. The "expellee' was counted in another category.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know at least one of the 43 placed into SLHS las
> year was an expellee from another school
The 43 were just the number who VOLUNTARILY transferred for academic reasons. The number of in-placements was many more than 43. The "expellee' was counted in another category.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 06:35PM
CT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone tell me if theyre moving current
> students aswell?
Past practice is to start with incoming freshman in September '08. If you're
already at Oakton, you'll stay at Oakton. Just get the Oakton paraphenalia out of the Glory Days at Fox Mill, if they transfer Fox Mill Elementry into SL ;-)
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone tell me if theyre moving current
> students aswell?
Past practice is to start with incoming freshman in September '08. If you're
already at Oakton, you'll stay at Oakton. Just get the Oakton paraphenalia out of the Glory Days at Fox Mill, if they transfer Fox Mill Elementry into SL ;-)
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 06:45PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> democrat board
The proper adjectival form for the name of that party is "Democratic." This form of supposed clever insult was first uttered by Joe Mccarthy. Do you really mean to be in the loathsome company of a man who accused George C. Marshall (Marshall High School) of being a traitor?
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> democrat board
The proper adjectival form for the name of that party is "Democratic." This form of supposed clever insult was first uttered by Joe Mccarthy. Do you really mean to be in the loathsome company of a man who accused George C. Marshall (Marshall High School) of being a traitor?
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 18, 2007 07:17PM
Thomas,
Shouldnt' they be asking the Langley question of Gibson? He is supposed to be representiing us, after all, not the Langley people. Everyone should ask it of Gibson and ask it of the at-large candidates that are running, and pin them down on it, and vote accordingly.
Shouldnt' they be asking the Langley question of Gibson? He is supposed to be representiing us, after all, not the Langley people. Everyone should ask it of Gibson and ask it of the at-large candidates that are running, and pin them down on it, and vote accordingly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CT
()
Date: October 18, 2007 07:36PM
Thank you! Yes, The tradition of our football team at Glory Days will be destroyed. Thomas, I think you are the most helpful person on this board. :)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 18, 2007 08:19PM
CT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you! Yes, The tradition of our football team
> at Glory Days will be destroyed. Thomas, I think
> you are the most helpful person on this board. :)
You're most welcome and too kind.
There's a Glory Days at the Pan Am shopping Center at the corner of Nutley and Lee Hwy which is seems to be closer to Oakton High School any way. Perhaps they will be happy to host your post game celebrations. :-)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you! Yes, The tradition of our football team
> at Glory Days will be destroyed. Thomas, I think
> you are the most helpful person on this board. :)
You're most welcome and too kind.
There's a Glory Days at the Pan Am shopping Center at the corner of Nutley and Lee Hwy which is seems to be closer to Oakton High School any way. Perhaps they will be happy to host your post game celebrations. :-)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Rodney
()
Date: October 18, 2007 08:26PM
That Glory Days is in Fairfax HS territory.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Tyrone
()
Date: October 18, 2007 10:51PM
Whens am I gonna be gittin' me some of that white Oakton pussy? I keeps hearin' 'bout this redistrictin' thing, but I ain't seein' no new white bitches. I needs to get my black snake in some white lobbyist's "Little Princess."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:07AM
Rodney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That Glory Days is in Fairfax HS territory.
Perfect.
FFX was the one team that South Lakes, though only half FFX's size, regularly beat when they were in the same district. FFX rarely beats any one else anyway. Thus, the Pam Am Glory Days should be empty most of the time. Go Cougars. :-)
It's the perpetutal ineptness of FFX High coaches that has their DSA pushing this ridiculous proposal to realign the Districts of the Northern region. FFX is a D-6 school by population and it's DSA should stop trying to rig the system to cover up for the inability to hire coaches who can teach the game.
-------------------------------------------------------
> That Glory Days is in Fairfax HS territory.
Perfect.
FFX was the one team that South Lakes, though only half FFX's size, regularly beat when they were in the same district. FFX rarely beats any one else anyway. Thus, the Pam Am Glory Days should be empty most of the time. Go Cougars. :-)
It's the perpetutal ineptness of FFX High coaches that has their DSA pushing this ridiculous proposal to realign the Districts of the Northern region. FFX is a D-6 school by population and it's DSA should stop trying to rig the system to cover up for the inability to hire coaches who can teach the game.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:46AM
Yes, it is Stu Gibson who needs to be asked the question. It was under Stu that South Lakes had that horrible principal. It was under Stu that South Lakes got stuck with the IB program that most parents don't want. It was under Stu when scores began to decline. It was under Stu's watch that a $50 million renovation was completed, with no plan for how to fill 800 empty seats. It was under Stu when Reston elementary schools began to decline and continued to decline without him doing anything to help. It is Stu who has agreed to not redistrict anyone out of Langley. The issues are Stu's, not Janie's.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 12:50AM by Neen.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 12:50AM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:57AM
Thomas More,
Your comments are very interesting, but with a couple of caveats. What has happened in Reston, is not happening in other parts of the county, like McLean and Vienna. Their high schools are not losing students like South Lakes has. One problem is the Reston Homeowners who won't allow expansion of existing homes or new homes. Young families want homes that are more modern and larger. Single people with roommates don't care. Nor do they care about schools. Families do care. Asian families are moving into McLean and Vienna because the schools are good. Even though they could get a cheaper home in Reston, those families do not want to move to Reston because the schools are not as good. It's not just a natural evolution, if that was true, Madison, Langley, McLean and Oakton would have the same enrollment problems as South Lakes. It's the schools in Reston, and the restrictive home owners association. It's not a family friendly environment.
I'm sorry that you don't like to be called a democrat. I don't blame you, I'd object to being called that too.
Your comments are very interesting, but with a couple of caveats. What has happened in Reston, is not happening in other parts of the county, like McLean and Vienna. Their high schools are not losing students like South Lakes has. One problem is the Reston Homeowners who won't allow expansion of existing homes or new homes. Young families want homes that are more modern and larger. Single people with roommates don't care. Nor do they care about schools. Families do care. Asian families are moving into McLean and Vienna because the schools are good. Even though they could get a cheaper home in Reston, those families do not want to move to Reston because the schools are not as good. It's not just a natural evolution, if that was true, Madison, Langley, McLean and Oakton would have the same enrollment problems as South Lakes. It's the schools in Reston, and the restrictive home owners association. It's not a family friendly environment.
I'm sorry that you don't like to be called a democrat. I don't blame you, I'd object to being called that too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:59AM
Can we all vote Tyrone the teen off the forum?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 02:07AM
>>>Aldrin and Armstrong are part of Reston and those kids belong at South Lakes.<<<
OK. The Madison 'island' is in Vienna so they should stay in Madison, Vienna's high school.
South Lakes needs an additional 700 students. From Aldrin and Armstrong they MIGHT get 100 a grade. From the island they'd be lucky to get 30, total. It hardly seems worth it to upset these communities, particularly when neither Madison or Herndon is over enrolled.
If Stu Gibson is going to force students from other areas into South Lakes, he needs to find larger elementary schools, from over crowded high schools to go there.
OK. The Madison 'island' is in Vienna so they should stay in Madison, Vienna's high school.
South Lakes needs an additional 700 students. From Aldrin and Armstrong they MIGHT get 100 a grade. From the island they'd be lucky to get 30, total. It hardly seems worth it to upset these communities, particularly when neither Madison or Herndon is over enrolled.
If Stu Gibson is going to force students from other areas into South Lakes, he needs to find larger elementary schools, from over crowded high schools to go there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:06AM
Look at this and tell me how it makes ANY sense to remove ANY students from Herndon high school when it will soon be under enrolled by 355 students:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/CapImpPlan2008-2012.pdf
A look at the demographics will tell you the same:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/HSDemographicsComparison.pdf
Remove Aldrin and Armstrong, and Herndon will look just like South Lakes does now, same demographics, same number of under enrolled. It hardly seems fair to shift South Lakes problems to Herndon.
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/CapImpPlan2008-2012.pdf
A look at the demographics will tell you the same:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/HSDemographicsComparison.pdf
Remove Aldrin and Armstrong, and Herndon will look just like South Lakes does now, same demographics, same number of under enrolled. It hardly seems fair to shift South Lakes problems to Herndon.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 05:42AM
Perhaps the Air Force and Navy recruitment standards were higher than the eligible graduates. I know that the Army has lowered its recruitment standards. Graduation is a rite of passage. It does signify a major accomplishment. Take to heart the commencement messages. The military does offer significant advantages and should be examined as a potential career, or at least for an enlistment. The benefits are invaluable and could send you to college.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 08:06AM
Fairfax Citizen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps the Air Force and Navy recruitment
> standards were higher than the eligible graduates.
> I know that the Army has lowered its recruitment
> standards. Graduation is a rite of passage. It
> does signify a major accomplishment. Take to
> heart the commencement messages. The military
> does offer significant advantages and should be
> examined as a potential career, or at least for an
> enlistment. The benefits are invaluable and could
> send you to college.
This posting is relevant to the subject of this thread exactly how? Apparently Fairfax Citizen is our local Army recruiter. Thanks for playing, hope you make your quota next month.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps the Air Force and Navy recruitment
> standards were higher than the eligible graduates.
> I know that the Army has lowered its recruitment
> standards. Graduation is a rite of passage. It
> does signify a major accomplishment. Take to
> heart the commencement messages. The military
> does offer significant advantages and should be
> examined as a potential career, or at least for an
> enlistment. The benefits are invaluable and could
> send you to college.
This posting is relevant to the subject of this thread exactly how? Apparently Fairfax Citizen is our local Army recruiter. Thanks for playing, hope you make your quota next month.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 08:34AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Aldrin and Armstrong are part of Reston and
> those kids belong at South Lakes.<<<
>
> OK. The Madison 'island' is in Vienna so they
> should stay in Madison, Vienna's high school.
>
> South Lakes needs an additional 700 students.
> From Aldrin and Armstrong they MIGHT get 100 a
> grade. From the island they'd be lucky to get 30,
> total. It hardly seems worth it to upset these
> communities, particularly when neither Madison or
> Herndon is over enrolled.
>
> If Stu Gibson is going to force students from
> other areas into South Lakes, he needs to find
> larger elementary schools, from over crowded high
> schools to go there.
The Wolf Trap Elementary ("Madison") Island is not within the boundaries of the Town of Vienna, though it may have a Vienna post office address. The portion of the island west of Hunter Mill is within the 1965 boundaries of Reston
South Lakes could probably do well with just an additional 500 kids.
How about let Herndon keep Armstrong, give Aldrin, Fox Mill and the island west of Hunter Mill to SL and add McNair and Floris to Herndon?
You won't get me to defend Gibson or Butler. Gibson let the Rodreguiz Reign of Terror last for too many years. She chased out the great teachers through retirement and relocation and hired sycophants, martinets, rookies, clock punchers, punks and too many teachers whose command of English was worse than hers, if thats even possible. Instead of cleaning house, Butler has promoted this bunch.
It's still so bad that the first thing every veteran teacher tells a parent within the first minute of any conversation is exactly how many days weeks and months until retirement.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Aldrin and Armstrong are part of Reston and
> those kids belong at South Lakes.<<<
>
> OK. The Madison 'island' is in Vienna so they
> should stay in Madison, Vienna's high school.
>
> South Lakes needs an additional 700 students.
> From Aldrin and Armstrong they MIGHT get 100 a
> grade. From the island they'd be lucky to get 30,
> total. It hardly seems worth it to upset these
> communities, particularly when neither Madison or
> Herndon is over enrolled.
>
> If Stu Gibson is going to force students from
> other areas into South Lakes, he needs to find
> larger elementary schools, from over crowded high
> schools to go there.
The Wolf Trap Elementary ("Madison") Island is not within the boundaries of the Town of Vienna, though it may have a Vienna post office address. The portion of the island west of Hunter Mill is within the 1965 boundaries of Reston
South Lakes could probably do well with just an additional 500 kids.
How about let Herndon keep Armstrong, give Aldrin, Fox Mill and the island west of Hunter Mill to SL and add McNair and Floris to Herndon?
You won't get me to defend Gibson or Butler. Gibson let the Rodreguiz Reign of Terror last for too many years. She chased out the great teachers through retirement and relocation and hired sycophants, martinets, rookies, clock punchers, punks and too many teachers whose command of English was worse than hers, if thats even possible. Instead of cleaning house, Butler has promoted this bunch.
It's still so bad that the first thing every veteran teacher tells a parent within the first minute of any conversation is exactly how many days weeks and months until retirement.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Tyrone
()
Date: October 19, 2007 09:15AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can we all vote Tyrone the teen off the forum?
You must be one of them lobbyists. Where's yo girl's phat ass?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can we all vote Tyrone the teen off the forum?
You must be one of them lobbyists. Where's yo girl's phat ass?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 09:18AM
I would vote to get rid of South Lakes Tyrone. Go for it, Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Tyrone
()
Date: October 19, 2007 09:27AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would vote to get rid of South Lakes Tyrone. Go
> for it, Neen.
Yo. Don't redistrict me offa dis site, bro!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would vote to get rid of South Lakes Tyrone. Go
> for it, Neen.
Yo. Don't redistrict me offa dis site, bro!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:14AM
Then please don't waste people's time with dumb, obscene comments. We are here to discuss issues of real importance to our kids and communities.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:25AM
Does anyone know anything about Coppermine ES, the one that begin built in the McNair area to relieve overcrowding in McNair and Floris? That might come into play here, but no one is talking about it, and I can't find anything online about it, not even where it is located. It's supposed to be built for 2009.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:32AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>Aldrin and Armstrong are part of Reston and
> > those kids belong at South Lakes.<<<
Armstrong has a lot of core herndon kids. Aldrin could undergo boundary chnages wth lake Anne and Forest Edge and clearly belongs at South Lakes. Forestville should go to Herndon and there should be a boundary change from Great Falls to Forestville of Seneca Rd while moving others out of Forestville into a combo of Dranesville/Armstrong/Aldrin/Forest Edge. Madison island and Colvin Glen should go to South Lakes along with FoxMill,
The Hughes GTC should be disbanded and the above movement wuld fill Hughes base school. The whole kit and caboodle should share busses for middle and high school since Hughes and South lakes are on the same campus despite FCPS erroneously having dricing direction maps showing them as over 1 mile apart when the reality is they are about 2 blocks apart walking/driving - both accessible via either street entrance. No grandfathering and there might be enough current transporation resources to slide the middle and high school start times for both the Herndon Pyramid and the South Lakes Pyramid. Scrap the IB.
That section of the county has to be handled differently than stuff like Madison or Oakton which do not border other school divisions that do not have bsiness relationships with FCPS [aka city of Fairfax].
As for other schools, they need to use Falls Church HS and domino into that. I heard Connelly's base school is mantua - move him out of the Woodson pyramid into falls Church.
> >
> > OK. The Madison 'island' is in Vienna so they
> > should stay in Madison, Vienna's high school.
> >
> > South Lakes needs an additional 700 students.
> > From Aldrin and Armstrong they MIGHT get 100 a
> > grade. From the island they'd be lucky to get
> 30,
> > total. It hardly seems worth it to upset these
> > communities, particularly when neither Madison
> or
> > Herndon is over enrolled.
> >
> > If Stu Gibson is going to force students from
> > other areas into South Lakes, he needs to find
> > larger elementary schools, from over crowded
> high
> > schools to go there.
>
> The Wolf Trap Elementary ("Madison") Island is not
> within the boundaries of the Town of Vienna,
> though it may have a Vienna post office address.
> The portion of the island west of Hunter Mill is
> within the 1965 boundaries of Reston
>
> South Lakes could probably do well with just an
> additional 500 kids.
>
> How about let Herndon keep Armstrong, give Aldrin,
> Fox Mill and the island west of Hunter Mill to SL
> and add McNair and Floris to Herndon?
>
> You won't get me to defend Gibson or Butler.
> Gibson let the Rodreguiz Reign of Terror last for
> too many years. She chased out the great teachers
> through retirement and relocation and hired
> sycophants, martinets, rookies, clock punchers,
> punks and too many teachers whose command of
> English was worse than hers, if thats even
> possible. Instead of cleaning house, Butler has
> promoted this bunch.
>
> It's still so bad that the first thing every
> veteran teacher tells a parent within the first
> minute of any conversation is exactly how many
> days weeks and months until retirement.
>
> More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>Aldrin and Armstrong are part of Reston and
> > those kids belong at South Lakes.<<<
Armstrong has a lot of core herndon kids. Aldrin could undergo boundary chnages wth lake Anne and Forest Edge and clearly belongs at South Lakes. Forestville should go to Herndon and there should be a boundary change from Great Falls to Forestville of Seneca Rd while moving others out of Forestville into a combo of Dranesville/Armstrong/Aldrin/Forest Edge. Madison island and Colvin Glen should go to South Lakes along with FoxMill,
The Hughes GTC should be disbanded and the above movement wuld fill Hughes base school. The whole kit and caboodle should share busses for middle and high school since Hughes and South lakes are on the same campus despite FCPS erroneously having dricing direction maps showing them as over 1 mile apart when the reality is they are about 2 blocks apart walking/driving - both accessible via either street entrance. No grandfathering and there might be enough current transporation resources to slide the middle and high school start times for both the Herndon Pyramid and the South Lakes Pyramid. Scrap the IB.
That section of the county has to be handled differently than stuff like Madison or Oakton which do not border other school divisions that do not have bsiness relationships with FCPS [aka city of Fairfax].
As for other schools, they need to use Falls Church HS and domino into that. I heard Connelly's base school is mantua - move him out of the Woodson pyramid into falls Church.
> >
> > OK. The Madison 'island' is in Vienna so they
> > should stay in Madison, Vienna's high school.
> >
> > South Lakes needs an additional 700 students.
> > From Aldrin and Armstrong they MIGHT get 100 a
> > grade. From the island they'd be lucky to get
> 30,
> > total. It hardly seems worth it to upset these
> > communities, particularly when neither Madison
> or
> > Herndon is over enrolled.
> >
> > If Stu Gibson is going to force students from
> > other areas into South Lakes, he needs to find
> > larger elementary schools, from over crowded
> high
> > schools to go there.
>
> The Wolf Trap Elementary ("Madison") Island is not
> within the boundaries of the Town of Vienna,
> though it may have a Vienna post office address.
> The portion of the island west of Hunter Mill is
> within the 1965 boundaries of Reston
>
> South Lakes could probably do well with just an
> additional 500 kids.
>
> How about let Herndon keep Armstrong, give Aldrin,
> Fox Mill and the island west of Hunter Mill to SL
> and add McNair and Floris to Herndon?
>
> You won't get me to defend Gibson or Butler.
> Gibson let the Rodreguiz Reign of Terror last for
> too many years. She chased out the great teachers
> through retirement and relocation and hired
> sycophants, martinets, rookies, clock punchers,
> punks and too many teachers whose command of
> English was worse than hers, if thats even
> possible. Instead of cleaning house, Butler has
> promoted this bunch.
>
> It's still so bad that the first thing every
> veteran teacher tells a parent within the first
> minute of any conversation is exactly how many
> days weeks and months until retirement.
>
> More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:46AM
I'm not sure SL needs as many as 700 kids. We should leave some room for growth, with all the development being discussed for Reston. Also, I can't believe there won't be more turnover of houses to younger families soon. Gibson says they do not look at possible future growth estimates unless the developers already have permits. This probably explains why the school board's projections are often grossly wrong.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 10:47AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 10:47AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 19, 2007 11:49AM
South Lakes doesn't need 700 kids - or 500 kids - what it needs, as Gibson has publicly stated, is an influx of the right kind of kids to get test scores up, and make the school more viable than it is in the future. This of course means that South Lakes needs more white and asian kids, and is in a competition to grab them, a competition sponsored if not driven by elements of the school board that find (as so many school systems do) racial balancing a key factor in solving problems. Don't get me wrong - some of the demographic factors about declining number of children in the district are likely accurate and have and will contribute to South Lakes decline in population, but these demographic factors are not the elephant in the room - the need to have an influx of the right kind of students is what is driving the process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 11:49AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure SL needs as many as 700 kids. We
> should leave some room for growth, with all the
> development being discussed for Reston. Also, I
> can't believe there won't be more turnover of
> houses to younger families soon. Gibson says they
> do not look at possible future growth estimates
> unless the developers already have permits. This
> probably explains why the school board's
> projections are often grossly wrong.
Over the last ten years, the schools staff's projections of the number of students to expect from new subdivision have marginally, but consistently, overstated the number of kids that actually show up. This trend is consistent with trends across the country where Americans as a whole, with some notable exceptions, continue the trend of having ever smaller numbers of children, even compared to numbers seen in the 1990's. Because as a nation, our fertility rate has fallen below the 2.1 replacement rate, without immigration, by mid-century America's population will actually start to decline as has already started to happened in several European countries. This trend is exacerbated in an up-scale community like Reston and is even more pronounced in the low density sprawl around Reston.
The new development projected for the metro stations is 5-10 years off at the soonest. It won't add 20% to Reston's current population of 65,000. Because it will be mostly high rise, there will be extremely small numbers of kids generated by those buildings.
Thus new development will not generate 500-700 new kids for South Lakes.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure SL needs as many as 700 kids. We
> should leave some room for growth, with all the
> development being discussed for Reston. Also, I
> can't believe there won't be more turnover of
> houses to younger families soon. Gibson says they
> do not look at possible future growth estimates
> unless the developers already have permits. This
> probably explains why the school board's
> projections are often grossly wrong.
Over the last ten years, the schools staff's projections of the number of students to expect from new subdivision have marginally, but consistently, overstated the number of kids that actually show up. This trend is consistent with trends across the country where Americans as a whole, with some notable exceptions, continue the trend of having ever smaller numbers of children, even compared to numbers seen in the 1990's. Because as a nation, our fertility rate has fallen below the 2.1 replacement rate, without immigration, by mid-century America's population will actually start to decline as has already started to happened in several European countries. This trend is exacerbated in an up-scale community like Reston and is even more pronounced in the low density sprawl around Reston.
The new development projected for the metro stations is 5-10 years off at the soonest. It won't add 20% to Reston's current population of 65,000. Because it will be mostly high rise, there will be extremely small numbers of kids generated by those buildings.
Thus new development will not generate 500-700 new kids for South Lakes.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Tyrone
()
Date: October 19, 2007 11:59AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then please don't waste people's time with dumb,
> obscene comments. We are here to discuss issues
> of real importance to our kids and communities.
Then ignore my posts!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then please don't waste people's time with dumb,
> obscene comments. We are here to discuss issues
> of real importance to our kids and communities.
Then ignore my posts!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:02PM
Quantum,
I really don't think you are looking at all of the factors at play. It's not all about test scores--if Gibson was so concerned about those, he would have done more in the last 12 years, like get rid of SL previous principal, and certainly would not have created McNair. And he could have done much more even with McNair and Dogwood to get their scores up, which many other Title 1 schools in the county have shown is possible.
For some reason, Gibson was going on about Westfield being overcrowded because they (the school board?) did a study and decided that 2000 kids is the optimal size for a high school. So he wants to bring enrollments down in schools with many more than 2000. Even though Westfield and Chantilly has the capacity, he thinks it is not optimal.
I really don't think you are looking at all of the factors at play. It's not all about test scores--if Gibson was so concerned about those, he would have done more in the last 12 years, like get rid of SL previous principal, and certainly would not have created McNair. And he could have done much more even with McNair and Dogwood to get their scores up, which many other Title 1 schools in the county have shown is possible.
For some reason, Gibson was going on about Westfield being overcrowded because they (the school board?) did a study and decided that 2000 kids is the optimal size for a high school. So he wants to bring enrollments down in schools with many more than 2000. Even though Westfield and Chantilly has the capacity, he thinks it is not optimal.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:03PM
> Armstrong has a lot of core herndon kids.
What does "core herndon kids" mean. No part of Armstrong is within the boundaries of the Town of Herndon and yet large parts of Armstrong are within the boundaries of Reston.
So does "core herndon kids" refer to a SGA president, the starting quarterback or the first chair violinist? they would be moving because the changes would be implemented with incoming freshman in the fall of '08, also know as the Class of 2012.
> Forestville should go to Herndon and there should
> be a boundary change from Great Falls to
> Forestville of Seneca Rd while moving others out
> of Forestville into a combo of
> Dranesville/Armstrong/Aldrin/Forest Edge.
I just got forwarded an e-mail from Gibson to another SL parent in which Gibson says School regulations preclude the addition of Langley to the boundary study. Too bad he lacked the intestinal fortitude to say that in front of the PTA members the other night. Apparently someone wired that result.
> Scrap the IB.
Second that motion.
More later
What does "core herndon kids" mean. No part of Armstrong is within the boundaries of the Town of Herndon and yet large parts of Armstrong are within the boundaries of Reston.
So does "core herndon kids" refer to a SGA president, the starting quarterback or the first chair violinist? they would be moving because the changes would be implemented with incoming freshman in the fall of '08, also know as the Class of 2012.
> Forestville should go to Herndon and there should
> be a boundary change from Great Falls to
> Forestville of Seneca Rd while moving others out
> of Forestville into a combo of
> Dranesville/Armstrong/Aldrin/Forest Edge.
I just got forwarded an e-mail from Gibson to another SL parent in which Gibson says School regulations preclude the addition of Langley to the boundary study. Too bad he lacked the intestinal fortitude to say that in front of the PTA members the other night. Apparently someone wired that result.
> Scrap the IB.
Second that motion.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:05PM
Please forgive my typo on the last post It should have read "they won't be moving".
Your error prone servant
Your error prone servant
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 12:23PM
Thomas,
What does that mean "school regulation". Who makes this stuff up? Doesn't the school board create the regulations? Can you give us more information so that we can email Gibson about this?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 12:50PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
What does that mean "school regulation". Who makes this stuff up? Doesn't the school board create the regulations? Can you give us more information so that we can email Gibson about this?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 12:50PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 01:19PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the elephant in the
> room - the need to have an influx of the right
> kind of students is what is driving the process.
Sadly, Quantum, you have it precisely right. It's about demographic balancing so the instructional staff doesn't have to actually work hard to get the unfortunately disadvantage kids up to grade level and pass the SOLs. It appears to be all about protecting a seriously disfunctional instructional staff left to us by Railly's Reign of Terror.
But with all of the protests from Fox Mill and Crossfields, I expect our craven Hunter Mill school board member will knuckle under and leap frog McNair into South Lakes so he can get back to his preferred source of entertainment: taking on the "vast right wing conspiracy" to which he dedvotes so much of his energy. (Memo to Stu; Mychelle Brickner's nut case philosophy got her voted out of office sometime ago. You can relax now and get back to making up for all the damage your dear protege, Railly, inflict on Reston's kids for all those years. We still have the scars.)
Adding McNair to South Lakes will make SL a magnet school all right: for the all econmically disadvatage from across the western half of the County. A 21st century version of 1955 Luther Jackson High School. That should please the pretentious swells from "Oak Hill". (For those of you new to the area, Luther Jackson, over by Gallows and Lee Hwy, is the school that crackers built so that all of Fairfax's "coloreds", from Mount Vernon to Herndon, didn't have to commute to D.C. anymore. They were ever so generous to the underprivilege back then. And all this just a single year after Brown v. School Board too. My, they were so far sighted and enlightened. A heritage to be proud of here in Fairfax. Not!)
That's the idea behind the culinary academy (we all ready have two in the County: one at Marshall, another at Chantilly. So do we really need a third one at South Lakes.) See the average wage for a culinary grad., even with a degree from Johnson and Wales or the Culinary Institute, is $40-60,000. That's with experience. Dad and brother hired these guys for Sodexo. Yes, sir, those kids will be able to pay $400,000 for a townhouse in Reston real soon. But at least they can't be outsource to India.
"Why thank you 'Massa Gibson' ever so much you are so kind to us poor chillun, here in Reston."
BTW, I see in this week's Connection that some folks talk about an arts magnet at South Lakes. When you advocate that idea, remember we already have a performing arts academy at FFX High. So you'd nessarily have to advocate for a studio arts academy. But Stu made clear to the SL PTA, an academy was no alternative to attendance area reassignment. Besides, I know of no academy in the County that has 500-700 kids. If someone else does, please advise.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> the elephant in the
> room - the need to have an influx of the right
> kind of students is what is driving the process.
Sadly, Quantum, you have it precisely right. It's about demographic balancing so the instructional staff doesn't have to actually work hard to get the unfortunately disadvantage kids up to grade level and pass the SOLs. It appears to be all about protecting a seriously disfunctional instructional staff left to us by Railly's Reign of Terror.
But with all of the protests from Fox Mill and Crossfields, I expect our craven Hunter Mill school board member will knuckle under and leap frog McNair into South Lakes so he can get back to his preferred source of entertainment: taking on the "vast right wing conspiracy" to which he dedvotes so much of his energy. (Memo to Stu; Mychelle Brickner's nut case philosophy got her voted out of office sometime ago. You can relax now and get back to making up for all the damage your dear protege, Railly, inflict on Reston's kids for all those years. We still have the scars.)
Adding McNair to South Lakes will make SL a magnet school all right: for the all econmically disadvatage from across the western half of the County. A 21st century version of 1955 Luther Jackson High School. That should please the pretentious swells from "Oak Hill". (For those of you new to the area, Luther Jackson, over by Gallows and Lee Hwy, is the school that crackers built so that all of Fairfax's "coloreds", from Mount Vernon to Herndon, didn't have to commute to D.C. anymore. They were ever so generous to the underprivilege back then. And all this just a single year after Brown v. School Board too. My, they were so far sighted and enlightened. A heritage to be proud of here in Fairfax. Not!)
That's the idea behind the culinary academy (we all ready have two in the County: one at Marshall, another at Chantilly. So do we really need a third one at South Lakes.) See the average wage for a culinary grad., even with a degree from Johnson and Wales or the Culinary Institute, is $40-60,000. That's with experience. Dad and brother hired these guys for Sodexo. Yes, sir, those kids will be able to pay $400,000 for a townhouse in Reston real soon. But at least they can't be outsource to India.
"Why thank you 'Massa Gibson' ever so much you are so kind to us poor chillun, here in Reston."
BTW, I see in this week's Connection that some folks talk about an arts magnet at South Lakes. When you advocate that idea, remember we already have a performing arts academy at FFX High. So you'd nessarily have to advocate for a studio arts academy. But Stu made clear to the SL PTA, an academy was no alternative to attendance area reassignment. Besides, I know of no academy in the County that has 500-700 kids. If someone else does, please advise.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer - is Stu lying?
()
Date: October 19, 2007 01:36PM
Stu Gibson lied about the exclusion of Langley because of a reg? They have not had town meetings but last year started them on about Oct 10.
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Armstrong has a lot of core herndon kids...
By core Herndon I was referring to Herndon PO box - some are Herndon PO box and in Hunter Mill with some Herndon PO Box/Dranesville. That circles the Herndon PO Box stuff that goes to Forestville...
I call it core not town since it is Herndon. A lot of Armstrong kids are in Reston but they are supposed to draw boundaries irregardless of Magisterial District/PO Box, etc. The fact is Aldrin/Armstrong are under capacity - concern is adding both to South Lakes is that if those schools approach capacity the Hughes/South Lakes combo would be overcrowded.
What was Gibson's reg? here's a cut and paste from the actual reg on the timeline and it's not Nov yet--
http://www.fcps.edu/Directives/R8130.pdf
The Approximate Calendar September-October: Facilities Planning Services and appropriate program staffs review enrollment projections, program requirements, and school and program capacities countywide to identify areas in which school closings, attendance area, and/or program realignments should be considered. The names of those schools that could be affected by such changes are reviewed with the affected School Board members. A letter informing parents of the need to change attendance area boundaries, and containing dates of the appropriate town meetings, will be sent from each school involved in a boundary study....
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Armstrong has a lot of core herndon kids...
By core Herndon I was referring to Herndon PO box - some are Herndon PO box and in Hunter Mill with some Herndon PO Box/Dranesville. That circles the Herndon PO Box stuff that goes to Forestville...
I call it core not town since it is Herndon. A lot of Armstrong kids are in Reston but they are supposed to draw boundaries irregardless of Magisterial District/PO Box, etc. The fact is Aldrin/Armstrong are under capacity - concern is adding both to South Lakes is that if those schools approach capacity the Hughes/South Lakes combo would be overcrowded.
What was Gibson's reg? here's a cut and paste from the actual reg on the timeline and it's not Nov yet--
http://www.fcps.edu/Directives/R8130.pdf
The Approximate Calendar September-October: Facilities Planning Services and appropriate program staffs review enrollment projections, program requirements, and school and program capacities countywide to identify areas in which school closings, attendance area, and/or program realignments should be considered. The names of those schools that could be affected by such changes are reviewed with the affected School Board members. A letter informing parents of the need to change attendance area boundaries, and containing dates of the appropriate town meetings, will be sent from each school involved in a boundary study....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 19, 2007 01:41PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What does that mean "school regulation". Who
> makes this stuff up? Doesn't the school board
> create the regulations? Can you give us more
> information so that we can email Gibson about
> this?
see the actual reg and email all the school board members [except Strauss ?]-
also complain about Langley and the administration there allowing about 200 truckloads of dirt to be dumped without permits and the removal being paid for with public money.
link to the page with the policy and the regualtions which carry out the operations of the school board policies:
http://www.fcps.edu/Directives/topicalindexB.htm#BOUN
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What does that mean "school regulation". Who
> makes this stuff up? Doesn't the school board
> create the regulations? Can you give us more
> information so that we can email Gibson about
> this?
see the actual reg and email all the school board members [except Strauss ?]-
also complain about Langley and the administration there allowing about 200 truckloads of dirt to be dumped without permits and the removal being paid for with public money.
link to the page with the policy and the regualtions which carry out the operations of the school board policies:
http://www.fcps.edu/Directives/topicalindexB.htm#BOUN
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 02:50PM
Thomas,
You contradict yourself. First you say Gibson wants the redistricting to bring up SL stats, then you say Gibson will put McNair in SL, which would have the opposite effect. What are you trying to say?
You contradict yourself. First you say Gibson wants the redistricting to bring up SL stats, then you say Gibson will put McNair in SL, which would have the opposite effect. What are you trying to say?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 02:51PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What does that mean "school regulation". Who
> makes this stuff up? Doesn't the school board
> create the regulations? Can you give us more
> information so that we can email Gibson about
> this?
Thus sayeth his craveness: "The Board's policy and regulation (8130.5) do not allow for any such modification to be made at this stage of the process."
As if the School Board couldn't vote to amend, modify or suspend their own rules and regulations whenever a majority voted for it. And he expects us to swallow this prevarication. It's a cop out to cover over that fact that Langley was left out to rig the end-result and preclude the unification of Reston into one high school.
An the coward didn't have the intestinal fortitude to tell us that to our faces at the PTA meeting the other night.
He has no respect for any of us. We are just dopes to be manipulated in pursuit of some undisclosed agenda known only to our lovely and kind "Massa Stu".
Unfortunately, More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What does that mean "school regulation". Who
> makes this stuff up? Doesn't the school board
> create the regulations? Can you give us more
> information so that we can email Gibson about
> this?
Thus sayeth his craveness: "The Board's policy and regulation (8130.5) do not allow for any such modification to be made at this stage of the process."
As if the School Board couldn't vote to amend, modify or suspend their own rules and regulations whenever a majority voted for it. And he expects us to swallow this prevarication. It's a cop out to cover over that fact that Langley was left out to rig the end-result and preclude the unification of Reston into one high school.
An the coward didn't have the intestinal fortitude to tell us that to our faces at the PTA meeting the other night.
He has no respect for any of us. We are just dopes to be manipulated in pursuit of some undisclosed agenda known only to our lovely and kind "Massa Stu".
Unfortunately, More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:07PM
South Lakes Pyramid - I respectfully disagree. McNair was built to accomodate population demand in that area of the county. And at the elementary school level, even with social engineers such as Gibson at the helm, it is completely unthinkable to abandon the concept of neighborhood schools - elementary schools in Fairfax, unless they can bribe GT white and asian students a la Hunters Woods, cannot resort to forced busing or "compelled choice" plans to reach a racial balance. So the Dogwoods and the McNairs exist - albeit in a way that only marginally drags down the entire county's profile. So Gibson and his ilk countenance these marginal schools because they have to.
As far as Rodriguez goes, I of course cannot speak to any particular details as to her hiring or transfer. But suffice to say it is virtually a universal view that she was at best ineffective and most likely grossly incompetent. But really, expect someone like Gibson - or even the school administration - to take prompt action against an under-represented minority principal - please? Only when the hue and cry got so loud was any action taken - and then, with a nice promotion to HR in the home office. In fact, your mention of Gibson's inaction only furthers my argument - people like Gibson - in the face of observing ever declining academic achievement at a place like South Lakes - and after engaging in the always furtive lets get an IB program to attract good white and asian students (it works in St. Petersburg, FLA - for about a 100 students - who, sadly, are in such a sea of racial disharmony, crime and academic mediocrity it is the only decent choice they have), and after engaging in the time honored lets get more minorities so the kids can "identify" with their leaders and teachers and do better (forgetting that what counts are truly talented teachers, irrespective of their race), deeply understand that changing the demographics of the students attending is the surest way to improve a school (as I state, Louisville and Seattle spent millions going to the Supreme Court over it). And why is this so difficult or offensive to accept? The data exists over and over to show so that at least in the public school system, race is as effective as any other marker to predict student performance. Or put another way, maybe it is difficult to accept - that I will concede - but really, it is the elephant in the room - so let's talk about it. The renovated building is a nice gussied up thing - but parents don't give a darn about buildings as long as they are passably safe (I have no worries about my daughter's daily attendance at run down TJ, for example). They want to send students to schools where standards for learning are universally high - amongst all students without outsize distractions.
If the school system is going to have to ask parents and students to make changes in their lives, is a little brutal honesty too much to expect? Why administrators fail to be blunt is an easy call - they don't want to "stigmatize" or offend certain populations. I, of course, am asserting the exact opposite - let's do be open about it because only if we are will real honest debate and change take place, as opposed to the phony and condescending discussions that so often occur now.
As far as Rodriguez goes, I of course cannot speak to any particular details as to her hiring or transfer. But suffice to say it is virtually a universal view that she was at best ineffective and most likely grossly incompetent. But really, expect someone like Gibson - or even the school administration - to take prompt action against an under-represented minority principal - please? Only when the hue and cry got so loud was any action taken - and then, with a nice promotion to HR in the home office. In fact, your mention of Gibson's inaction only furthers my argument - people like Gibson - in the face of observing ever declining academic achievement at a place like South Lakes - and after engaging in the always furtive lets get an IB program to attract good white and asian students (it works in St. Petersburg, FLA - for about a 100 students - who, sadly, are in such a sea of racial disharmony, crime and academic mediocrity it is the only decent choice they have), and after engaging in the time honored lets get more minorities so the kids can "identify" with their leaders and teachers and do better (forgetting that what counts are truly talented teachers, irrespective of their race), deeply understand that changing the demographics of the students attending is the surest way to improve a school (as I state, Louisville and Seattle spent millions going to the Supreme Court over it). And why is this so difficult or offensive to accept? The data exists over and over to show so that at least in the public school system, race is as effective as any other marker to predict student performance. Or put another way, maybe it is difficult to accept - that I will concede - but really, it is the elephant in the room - so let's talk about it. The renovated building is a nice gussied up thing - but parents don't give a darn about buildings as long as they are passably safe (I have no worries about my daughter's daily attendance at run down TJ, for example). They want to send students to schools where standards for learning are universally high - amongst all students without outsize distractions.
If the school system is going to have to ask parents and students to make changes in their lives, is a little brutal honesty too much to expect? Why administrators fail to be blunt is an easy call - they don't want to "stigmatize" or offend certain populations. I, of course, am asserting the exact opposite - let's do be open about it because only if we are will real honest debate and change take place, as opposed to the phony and condescending discussions that so often occur now.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:28PM
Thomas, can you post the Gibson email? Then we have something to go on.
Quantum, McNair gets back to my argument--why is the county creating Title 1 schools to begin with? Cluster affordable housing, and the result is predictable. It also reeks of intentional segregation.
And, you want honesty? OK, South Lakes isn't perfect. Do you want me to say that SL is a bad school? I can't say that, because I don't believe that it is.
It had a bad run because of a very bad principal. Neither is Oakton perfect, or any other mostly white and asian school. But there are upsides to diversity--I see it at the school all the time, with the accepting nature of the students. You may think this is a lie, but it is not.
More honesty, there ARE people in Fox Mill and Oak Hill area who want to go to SL because of proximity. They are afraid to speak up at meetings for fear of getting lynched. Maybe you folks can also acknowledge that there may in fact be some advantages to coming to South Lakes. Later sleep times?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 03:56PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Quantum, McNair gets back to my argument--why is the county creating Title 1 schools to begin with? Cluster affordable housing, and the result is predictable. It also reeks of intentional segregation.
And, you want honesty? OK, South Lakes isn't perfect. Do you want me to say that SL is a bad school? I can't say that, because I don't believe that it is.
It had a bad run because of a very bad principal. Neither is Oakton perfect, or any other mostly white and asian school. But there are upsides to diversity--I see it at the school all the time, with the accepting nature of the students. You may think this is a lie, but it is not.
More honesty, there ARE people in Fox Mill and Oak Hill area who want to go to SL because of proximity. They are afraid to speak up at meetings for fear of getting lynched. Maybe you folks can also acknowledge that there may in fact be some advantages to coming to South Lakes. Later sleep times?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 03:56PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CT
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:31PM
Yes,the Madison island should stay at Madison. They are technically in Reston, that's true but if anyone should change school it would be Westfield kids. They are way over populated. My friends there all complain about the trailers packed onto the school. As a student, I say we stop redistricting and let the chips fall where they may. Just so you know, the social networking site already had groups against it and posts. One's called: You can't spell Facist Oppression without FCPS. Which I thought was cute.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Lurker.
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:34PM
I can tell you that those of us who graduated from South Lakes in the 80's have done EXTREMELY well $$.
Many South Lakes graduates from those years attended Harvard, Yale, UVA, Georgetown, etc...
South Lakes graduates also run the majority of the highly productive businesses in the County. Many graduates still live in Fairfax County and have kids attending Fairfax County High Schools. The stories I have been hearing about other Fairfax High Schools from these parents certainly far out weigh the stories I have heard about South Lakes.
Attachments:
Many South Lakes graduates from those years attended Harvard, Yale, UVA, Georgetown, etc...
South Lakes graduates also run the majority of the highly productive businesses in the County. Many graduates still live in Fairfax County and have kids attending Fairfax County High Schools. The stories I have been hearing about other Fairfax High Schools from these parents certainly far out weigh the stories I have heard about South Lakes.
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:37PM
taxpayer -
>they are
> supposed to draw boundaries irregardless of
> Magisterial District/PO Box, etc. The fact is
> Aldrin/Armstrong are under capacity - concern is
> adding both to South Lakes is that if those
> schools approach capacity the Hughes/South Lakes
> combo would be overcrowded.
The School Board has never divided the Town of Hernodn into two seperate high schools. It never did it to Vienna or the City of Faifax. Reston, as small tax district #5, has equal dignity with those municipalities and should be afforded the same deference is attendance line drawing.
Greivously More later
>they are
> supposed to draw boundaries irregardless of
> Magisterial District/PO Box, etc. The fact is
> Aldrin/Armstrong are under capacity - concern is
> adding both to South Lakes is that if those
> schools approach capacity the Hughes/South Lakes
> combo would be overcrowded.
The School Board has never divided the Town of Hernodn into two seperate high schools. It never did it to Vienna or the City of Faifax. Reston, as small tax district #5, has equal dignity with those municipalities and should be afforded the same deference is attendance line drawing.
Greivously More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:40PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, can you post the Gibson email? Then we
> have something to go on.
I wish I knew how. I cut and pasted the relevant quote in an earlier post.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, can you post the Gibson email? Then we
> have something to go on.
I wish I knew how. I cut and pasted the relevant quote in an earlier post.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:45PM
Oh, sorry. Missed it. Still doesn't make sense, when you look at the actual policy.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 03:54PM
CT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes,the Madison island should stay at Madison.
> They are technically in Reston, that's true but if
> anyone should change school it would be Westfield
> kids.
Fox Mill seperates the SL attendance area from McNair and Floris. Weren't you the one who wanted to keep Glory Days for Oakton. Here I'm trying to help you out and I get no back up. :-)
but I'm foolish to expect gratitude from the young.
Thanks for the other info. I hope the participants understand that it is unlikely that current high school kids will be effected just their younger siblings.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes,the Madison island should stay at Madison.
> They are technically in Reston, that's true but if
> anyone should change school it would be Westfield
> kids.
Fox Mill seperates the SL attendance area from McNair and Floris. Weren't you the one who wanted to keep Glory Days for Oakton. Here I'm trying to help you out and I get no back up. :-)
but I'm foolish to expect gratitude from the young.
Thanks for the other info. I hope the participants understand that it is unlikely that current high school kids will be effected just their younger siblings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CT
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:02PM
I understand. :). Yes, I'm backing you up on the Glory Days issue. Reminder:Wing Night Wednesday. My sibling would miss that. That would be sad.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:08PM
Glory Days said the have no interest in a 2-5 team... to few post game celebrations for their liking.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:12PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> For some reason, Gibson was going on about
> Westfield being overcrowded because they (the
> school board?) did a study and decided that 2000
> kids is the optimal size for a high school. So he
> wants to bring enrollments down in schools with
> many more than 2000. Even though Westfield and
> Chantilly has the capacity, he thinks it is not
> optimal.
Westfield is not even in ole Stu's district. He shouldn't even have an opinion about large capacity schools. Wasn't he around when the school board approved and built the humongo school for LARGE capacity? So SL will be filled to the brim and Westfield will be empty of some 1200 kids? That's good use of other people's money. Stu's a moron. He should mind his own buisness, fix his problem elementary schools that he ignores. Too bad the right to run again for office is not earned through past performance. Stu would be out of the running.
Also, I am not sure McNair is a good fit for Herndon, esp. if they loose Aldrin, Armstrong. And everybody is getting all giddy about rearranging Langley's and Madison's boundaries (and although I agree with some of these ideas). These schools (except for the island) are not in the study. Unless they are, this is a wasted discussion.
> For some reason, Gibson was going on about
> Westfield being overcrowded because they (the
> school board?) did a study and decided that 2000
> kids is the optimal size for a high school. So he
> wants to bring enrollments down in schools with
> many more than 2000. Even though Westfield and
> Chantilly has the capacity, he thinks it is not
> optimal.
Westfield is not even in ole Stu's district. He shouldn't even have an opinion about large capacity schools. Wasn't he around when the school board approved and built the humongo school for LARGE capacity? So SL will be filled to the brim and Westfield will be empty of some 1200 kids? That's good use of other people's money. Stu's a moron. He should mind his own buisness, fix his problem elementary schools that he ignores. Too bad the right to run again for office is not earned through past performance. Stu would be out of the running.
Also, I am not sure McNair is a good fit for Herndon, esp. if they loose Aldrin, Armstrong. And everybody is getting all giddy about rearranging Langley's and Madison's boundaries (and although I agree with some of these ideas). These schools (except for the island) are not in the study. Unless they are, this is a wasted discussion.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
COUGARS
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:14PM
LEAVE OAKTON ALONE!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:14PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry that you don't like to be called a
> democrat.
You didn't call me a democrat though every American is one. See when you don't capitalize the "d", you're referring to a person who perfers democracy to say, authoritaranisms, communism, facsim or McCarthyism. But I repeat myself.
If you're referring to members of the oldest continuous politcal party on Earth, proper grammar a capital "D" is used.
Tailgunner Joe's half-witted put down revealed that his education was lacking in either proper grammar or proper manners. More likely both.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry that you don't like to be called a
> democrat.
You didn't call me a democrat though every American is one. See when you don't capitalize the "d", you're referring to a person who perfers democracy to say, authoritaranisms, communism, facsim or McCarthyism. But I repeat myself.
If you're referring to members of the oldest continuous politcal party on Earth, proper grammar a capital "D" is used.
Tailgunner Joe's half-witted put down revealed that his education was lacking in either proper grammar or proper manners. More likely both.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:20PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley's and Madison's boundaries
> (and although I agree with some of these ideas).
> These schools (except for the island) are not in
> the study. Unless they are, this is a wasted
> discussion.
Look at the map on the FCPS Website. The entirety of the Madison attendance area is in the boundary study not just the Wolf Trap island.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley's and Madison's boundaries
> (and although I agree with some of these ideas).
> These schools (except for the island) are not in
> the study. Unless they are, this is a wasted
> discussion.
Look at the map on the FCPS Website. The entirety of the Madison attendance area is in the boundary study not just the Wolf Trap island.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:39PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Your comments are very interesting, but with a
> couple of caveats. What has happened in Reston,
> is not happening in other parts of the county,
> like McLean and Vienna. Their high schools are
> not losing students like South Lakes has. One
> problem is the Reston Homeowners who won't allow
> expansion of existing homes or new homes. Young
> families want homes that are more modern and
> larger. Single people with roommates don't care.
> Nor do they care about schools. Families do care.
> Asian families are moving into McLean and Vienna
> because the schools are good. Even though they
> could get a cheaper home in Reston, those families
> do not want to move to Reston because the schools
> are not as good. It's not just a natural
> evolution, if that was true, Madison, Langley,
> McLean and Oakton would have the same enrollment
> problems as South Lakes. It's the schools in
> Reston, and the restrictive home owners
> association. It's not a family friendly
> environment.
I won't defend the dilettante's on the DRB.
What I obviously didn't make clear is that the double income no kids couples (demographers call them DINKS) and the twenty something frat boys and sorority sisters used subprime loans to bid up the price of houses in Reston over the last ten years so as to be near their jobs in the Dulles Corridor. They bid the prices so high that Momma could get more space for her chicks at a lower price in Winchester, et al.
Until a few months ago, for sale signs would be up for days or only hours before the "Sold" sign went up.
Given that there haven't been any substantial number of single family homes built in Reston since 1985-90, families have been priced out of the few houses that ever came on the market here.
Hope that makes it clearer for you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Your comments are very interesting, but with a
> couple of caveats. What has happened in Reston,
> is not happening in other parts of the county,
> like McLean and Vienna. Their high schools are
> not losing students like South Lakes has. One
> problem is the Reston Homeowners who won't allow
> expansion of existing homes or new homes. Young
> families want homes that are more modern and
> larger. Single people with roommates don't care.
> Nor do they care about schools. Families do care.
> Asian families are moving into McLean and Vienna
> because the schools are good. Even though they
> could get a cheaper home in Reston, those families
> do not want to move to Reston because the schools
> are not as good. It's not just a natural
> evolution, if that was true, Madison, Langley,
> McLean and Oakton would have the same enrollment
> problems as South Lakes. It's the schools in
> Reston, and the restrictive home owners
> association. It's not a family friendly
> environment.
I won't defend the dilettante's on the DRB.
What I obviously didn't make clear is that the double income no kids couples (demographers call them DINKS) and the twenty something frat boys and sorority sisters used subprime loans to bid up the price of houses in Reston over the last ten years so as to be near their jobs in the Dulles Corridor. They bid the prices so high that Momma could get more space for her chicks at a lower price in Winchester, et al.
Until a few months ago, for sale signs would be up for days or only hours before the "Sold" sign went up.
Given that there haven't been any substantial number of single family homes built in Reston since 1985-90, families have been priced out of the few houses that ever came on the market here.
Hope that makes it clearer for you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 19, 2007 04:47PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for the other info. I hope the
> participants understand that it is unlikely that
> current high school kids will be effected just
> their younger siblings.
This is not what current school board members are suggesting. What is being proposed also includes, at a minimum, current 9th and 10th graders. Folks need to speak up about grandfathering.
This boundary study most likely includes shifting kids from Chantilly to Oakton. It appears that no one cares too much about this. But Beware Oakton kiddies, you might be displaced out of Oakton, so a Chantilly person can fill your shoes.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for the other info. I hope the
> participants understand that it is unlikely that
> current high school kids will be effected just
> their younger siblings.
This is not what current school board members are suggesting. What is being proposed also includes, at a minimum, current 9th and 10th graders. Folks need to speak up about grandfathering.
This boundary study most likely includes shifting kids from Chantilly to Oakton. It appears that no one cares too much about this. But Beware Oakton kiddies, you might be displaced out of Oakton, so a Chantilly person can fill your shoes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 19, 2007 05:03PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Langley's and Madison's boundaries
> > (and although I agree with some of these ideas).
>
> > These schools (except for the island) are not
> in
> > the study. Unless they are, this is a wasted
> > discussion.
>
> Look at the map on the FCPS Website. The entirety
> of the Madison attendance area is in the boundary
> study not just the Wolf Trap island.
See below...from the minutes of the SCHOOL BOARD WORK SESSION
REVISED 7-11-07
Date July 16,
"In addition staff recommends a limited study be conducted for Madison
High, Thoreau Middle, and Wolftrap Elementary focused on reassigning
the attendance area “island” north of the Dulles Access Road from
these schools to South Lakes High, Hughes Middle, and Sunrise Valley
Elementary." this accompanies the map.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Langley's and Madison's boundaries
> > (and although I agree with some of these ideas).
>
> > These schools (except for the island) are not
> in
> > the study. Unless they are, this is a wasted
> > discussion.
>
> Look at the map on the FCPS Website. The entirety
> of the Madison attendance area is in the boundary
> study not just the Wolf Trap island.
See below...from the minutes of the SCHOOL BOARD WORK SESSION
REVISED 7-11-07
Date July 16,
"In addition staff recommends a limited study be conducted for Madison
High, Thoreau Middle, and Wolftrap Elementary focused on reassigning
the attendance area “island” north of the Dulles Access Road from
these schools to South Lakes High, Hughes Middle, and Sunrise Valley
Elementary." this accompanies the map.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CT
()
Date: October 19, 2007 05:19PM
Chantilly kids at Oakton? With our rivalry? That'll take a toll on school spirit.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 05:20PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> You contradict yourself. First you say Gibson
> wants the redistricting to bring up SL stats, then
> you say Gibson will put McNair in SL, which would
> have the opposite effect. What are you trying to
> say?
He started this process with the intention of lifting the scores but when the full gale of opposition from Herndon, Fox Mill and Crossfields overwhelms the e-mails servers of his plutocrat collegues and the central staff (and we're noot therre yet, not even close), he'll stick us with McNair just to get it over with. Because of McNair's demographics its expected that they won't be nearly as active or vociferous as the other bunch.
Stu has never shown any political courage in standing up for Reston's kids. If he had any testicular ridigity, he wouldn't have allowed his fear of a suit for ethnic discrimination to inhibit him from getting rid of Railly. Instead he kept his protege in place until he could find her a phony promotion to a central office HR job recruiting other minorities.
Taking on Bryckner advanced his generally focused liberal/teachers union agenda and didn't specfically help Reston kids. Though it did make for some campy entertainment.
Getting Sl's renovation leap frogged over other high schools that were in much worse shape only required share elbows at the trough and he was only taking on his fellow cretins, but the parents of Crossfield, Fox Mill and Herndon in full howl.
Hope that answers the question.
More later
I'm sick enough to actually watch the school board meetings. He never bucks the rest of his cohorts or the central staff on anything of significance.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> You contradict yourself. First you say Gibson
> wants the redistricting to bring up SL stats, then
> you say Gibson will put McNair in SL, which would
> have the opposite effect. What are you trying to
> say?
He started this process with the intention of lifting the scores but when the full gale of opposition from Herndon, Fox Mill and Crossfields overwhelms the e-mails servers of his plutocrat collegues and the central staff (and we're noot therre yet, not even close), he'll stick us with McNair just to get it over with. Because of McNair's demographics its expected that they won't be nearly as active or vociferous as the other bunch.
Stu has never shown any political courage in standing up for Reston's kids. If he had any testicular ridigity, he wouldn't have allowed his fear of a suit for ethnic discrimination to inhibit him from getting rid of Railly. Instead he kept his protege in place until he could find her a phony promotion to a central office HR job recruiting other minorities.
Taking on Bryckner advanced his generally focused liberal/teachers union agenda and didn't specfically help Reston kids. Though it did make for some campy entertainment.
Getting Sl's renovation leap frogged over other high schools that were in much worse shape only required share elbows at the trough and he was only taking on his fellow cretins, but the parents of Crossfield, Fox Mill and Herndon in full howl.
Hope that answers the question.
More later
I'm sick enough to actually watch the school board meetings. He never bucks the rest of his cohorts or the central staff on anything of significance.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 05:29PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> This is not what current school board members are
> suggesting. What is being proposed also includes,
> at a minimum, current 9th and 10th graders. Folks
> need to speak up about grandfathering.
>
> This boundary study most likely includes shifting
> kids from Chantilly to Oakton. It appears that no
> one cares too much about this. But Beware Oakton
> kiddies, you might be displaced out of Oakton, so
> a Chantilly person can fill your shoes.
Thanks for the resolution cut and paste. Its not on the map that was handed out at the PTA meeting nor is it on the map on the Website.
Gibson said at the PTA meeting that while grandfathering wouldn't be decided until the end, it was likely to apply to rising 10, 11 & 12 graders but given his little stunt about a reg that supposedly precludes revisiting the boundaries of the study area, can you believe any thing he says.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> This is not what current school board members are
> suggesting. What is being proposed also includes,
> at a minimum, current 9th and 10th graders. Folks
> need to speak up about grandfathering.
>
> This boundary study most likely includes shifting
> kids from Chantilly to Oakton. It appears that no
> one cares too much about this. But Beware Oakton
> kiddies, you might be displaced out of Oakton, so
> a Chantilly person can fill your shoes.
Thanks for the resolution cut and paste. Its not on the map that was handed out at the PTA meeting nor is it on the map on the Website.
Gibson said at the PTA meeting that while grandfathering wouldn't be decided until the end, it was likely to apply to rising 10, 11 & 12 graders but given his little stunt about a reg that supposedly precludes revisiting the boundaries of the study area, can you believe any thing he says.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 19, 2007 05:54PM
I got some news for Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith... in less than a month you will no longer be on the School Board.
VOTE THESE PUSHY THUGS OUT OF OFFICE!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 06:09PM
A quote of Christine Arakelian's (Stu's opponent) blog on Langley at
http://blogs.arakelian.com/christine/?p=3
To answer your question: yes, I do support the Langley pyramid being included in the boundary studies and will vote for this. I see no reason for them not to be included, and it is simply the fairest thing to do at this point.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 06:10PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
http://blogs.arakelian.com/christine/?p=3
To answer your question: yes, I do support the Langley pyramid being included in the boundary studies and will vote for this. I see no reason for them not to be included, and it is simply the fairest thing to do at this point.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2007 06:10PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 06:15PM
Looks like Arakelian will not be a plutocrat. Time for some new blood and fresh ideas and someone who might actually listen for a change. And obviously, she's not afraid of saying controversial things.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 19, 2007 08:05PM
Cricket you are way off, hidden way down in the FCPS by laws a student currently enrolled at a school in the proper district CAN NOT be removed and be placed at another school to allow someone fron ANOTHER district to be placed in that school.
Oakton is safe/Westfield is safe/SLHS is safe. This whole thing is to stir up voters, if this redistricting thing ever gets off the ground the $$$$$ in NVA will keep it tied up in court until 2010 when ALL schools will be at or under capacity.
Oakton is safe/Westfield is safe/SLHS is safe. This whole thing is to stir up voters, if this redistricting thing ever gets off the ground the $$$$$ in NVA will keep it tied up in court until 2010 when ALL schools will be at or under capacity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: October 19, 2007 08:11PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rodney Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That Glory Days is in Fairfax HS territory.
>
> Perfect.
>
> FFX was the one team that South Lakes, though only
> half FFX's size, regularly beat when they were in
> the same district. FFX rarely beats any one else
> anyway. Thus, the Pam Am Glory Days should be
> empty most of the time. Go Cougars. :-)
>
> It's the perpetutal ineptness of FFX High coaches
> that has their DSA pushing this ridiculous
> proposal to realign the Districts of the Northern
> region. FFX is a D-6 school by population and
> it's DSA should stop trying to rig the system to
> cover up for the inability to hire coaches who can
> teach the game.
Not perpetual ineptness...just recent.
Have you forgotten the Rebel's perfect 10-0 seasons in '91, '98, and '99? Or the 1994 season (11-2) when the Rebs won the Northern Region Title?
Of course, it all ended when Head Coach Tom Verbanic went to Westfield when it opened. The man is one hell of a football coach!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rodney Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That Glory Days is in Fairfax HS territory.
>
> Perfect.
>
> FFX was the one team that South Lakes, though only
> half FFX's size, regularly beat when they were in
> the same district. FFX rarely beats any one else
> anyway. Thus, the Pam Am Glory Days should be
> empty most of the time. Go Cougars. :-)
>
> It's the perpetutal ineptness of FFX High coaches
> that has their DSA pushing this ridiculous
> proposal to realign the Districts of the Northern
> region. FFX is a D-6 school by population and
> it's DSA should stop trying to rig the system to
> cover up for the inability to hire coaches who can
> teach the game.
Not perpetual ineptness...just recent.
Have you forgotten the Rebel's perfect 10-0 seasons in '91, '98, and '99? Or the 1994 season (11-2) when the Rebs won the Northern Region Title?
Of course, it all ended when Head Coach Tom Verbanic went to Westfield when it opened. The man is one hell of a football coach!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 19, 2007 08:16PM
truth seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket you are way off, hidden way down in the
> FCPS by laws a student currently enrolled at a
> school in the proper district CAN NOT be removed
> and be placed at another school to allow someone
> fron ANOTHER district to be placed in that
> school...
not true - check out the Kilmer boundary change process in 2006-07. They moved out kids from the town of Vienna [Louise Archer went ballistic] to Jackson to accomodate the kids from Great falls. another was Colvin Run - dominoed kids from Forestville into Great Falls and Great Falls into Colvin Run [near Mclean Bible Church]leaving kids from Reston and Herndon in Forestville. Look at Woodson and Frost. They have an island from Robinson. The list goes on. Whitman [Mount Vernon's middle school] is in Sandburg's attendance area.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket you are way off, hidden way down in the
> FCPS by laws a student currently enrolled at a
> school in the proper district CAN NOT be removed
> and be placed at another school to allow someone
> fron ANOTHER district to be placed in that
> school...
not true - check out the Kilmer boundary change process in 2006-07. They moved out kids from the town of Vienna [Louise Archer went ballistic] to Jackson to accomodate the kids from Great falls. another was Colvin Run - dominoed kids from Forestville into Great Falls and Great Falls into Colvin Run [near Mclean Bible Church]leaving kids from Reston and Herndon in Forestville. Look at Woodson and Frost. They have an island from Robinson. The list goes on. Whitman [Mount Vernon's middle school] is in Sandburg's attendance area.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jerry Mandering
()
Date: October 19, 2007 08:31PM
taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> truth seeker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket you are way off, hidden way down in
> the
> > FCPS by laws a student currently enrolled at a
> > school in the proper district CAN NOT be
> removed
> > and be placed at another school to allow
> someone
> > fron ANOTHER district to be placed in that
> > school...
>
> not true - check out the Kilmer boundary change
> process in 2006-07. They moved out kids from the
> town of Vienna to Jackson to accomodate the kids
> from Great falls. another was Colvin Run -
> dominoed kids from Forestville into Great Falls
> and Great Falls into Colvin Run leaving kids from
> Reston and Herndon in Forestville. Look at
> Woodson and Frost. They have an island from
> Robinson. The list goes on. Whitman is in
> Sandburg's attendance area.
In addition, Colvin Run in Vienna was built to accommodate influx of students when the boundaries were switched McLean and Langley. The several elementary schools in that area, such as Westbriar, are under enrolled.
-------------------------------------------------------
> truth seeker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket you are way off, hidden way down in
> the
> > FCPS by laws a student currently enrolled at a
> > school in the proper district CAN NOT be
> removed
> > and be placed at another school to allow
> someone
> > fron ANOTHER district to be placed in that
> > school...
>
> not true - check out the Kilmer boundary change
> process in 2006-07. They moved out kids from the
> town of Vienna to Jackson to accomodate the kids
> from Great falls. another was Colvin Run -
> dominoed kids from Forestville into Great Falls
> and Great Falls into Colvin Run leaving kids from
> Reston and Herndon in Forestville. Look at
> Woodson and Frost. They have an island from
> Robinson. The list goes on. Whitman is in
> Sandburg's attendance area.
In addition, Colvin Run in Vienna was built to accommodate influx of students when the boundaries were switched McLean and Langley. The several elementary schools in that area, such as Westbriar, are under enrolled.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 19, 2007 08:47PM
truth seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket you are way off, hidden way down in the
> FCPS by laws a student currently enrolled at a
> school in the proper district CAN NOT be removed
> and be placed at another school to allow someone
> fron ANOTHER district to be placed in that
> school.
>
> Oakton is safe/Westfield is safe/SLHS is safe.
> This whole thing is to stir up voters, if this
> redistricting thing ever gets off the ground the
> $$$$$ in NVA will keep it tied up in court until
> 2010 when ALL schools will be at or under
> capacity.
OK, truth seeker, whatever you want to believe. This past Monday, I sat and listened to Steve Hunt describe this little swirl about from Chantilly to Oakton as he squirmed to justify why these 2 schools are even included in this study.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket you are way off, hidden way down in the
> FCPS by laws a student currently enrolled at a
> school in the proper district CAN NOT be removed
> and be placed at another school to allow someone
> fron ANOTHER district to be placed in that
> school.
>
> Oakton is safe/Westfield is safe/SLHS is safe.
> This whole thing is to stir up voters, if this
> redistricting thing ever gets off the ground the
> $$$$$ in NVA will keep it tied up in court until
> 2010 when ALL schools will be at or under
> capacity.
OK, truth seeker, whatever you want to believe. This past Monday, I sat and listened to Steve Hunt describe this little swirl about from Chantilly to Oakton as he squirmed to justify why these 2 schools are even included in this study.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 19, 2007 09:04PM
Cricket,
What is Steve Hunt's position on Langley?
What is Steve Hunt's position on Langley?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Terp
()
Date: October 19, 2007 09:18PM
Cricket,
Would love to know more about what Steve Hunt had to say as he said something similar to me on the phone several weeks ago. If you live in the CHANTILLY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT You are not immune to this process and Kathy Smith will not stand up for YOU - the people in the Sully District who voted for her MADE a BIG MISTAKE. I have listened to her skirt the issue for a long time now.
Can someone tell me why Chantilly is even included in this study? I realize they will be over capacity for several years as the "bubble" classes pass thru but should be fine by 2011. Is Chantilly just the only poor back flush acceptable enough to fill up Oakton and not cause their pretty test scores to drop.
Does anyone else smell a rat?
Terp
Would love to know more about what Steve Hunt had to say as he said something similar to me on the phone several weeks ago. If you live in the CHANTILLY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT You are not immune to this process and Kathy Smith will not stand up for YOU - the people in the Sully District who voted for her MADE a BIG MISTAKE. I have listened to her skirt the issue for a long time now.
Can someone tell me why Chantilly is even included in this study? I realize they will be over capacity for several years as the "bubble" classes pass thru but should be fine by 2011. Is Chantilly just the only poor back flush acceptable enough to fill up Oakton and not cause their pretty test scores to drop.
Does anyone else smell a rat?
Terp
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 09:44PM
CT, how is the Madison island 'technically in Reston' when every address in the island is Vienna?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:00PM
Quantum,
If we were to address the race issue, it would come down to addressing the problems in the Black culture. Since our democrat school board believes all cultures to be equal, that's a non starter.
Our school board uses the excuse that black kids need black role models to practice their affirmative action with principal promotions. There is ZERO evidence that black principals have EVER improved black performance of students in FCPS. No matter. Our school board hates to be confused with the facts. They want to promote blacks. Period. So they will.
That didn't quite work when Madison got stuck with an incompetent black principal a few years back. They said she was promoted to Madison because of her excellent track record with black student discipline. For a high school with less than 4% black students, and few discipline problems, parents and students were left scratching their heads. When she made her first address to the parents it was clear that she knew little about academics, AP courses, and getting students prepared for college, which 95% of Madison parents and students view as most important. When she could not use proper English grammar when addressing parents at back-to-school night it became even more clear that she was simply another example of an FCPS employee promoted beyond her level of competence through FCPS affirmative action. It took three LOOOOONG years to get rid of her. She was universally disliked at Madison. She was finally sent to an alternative high school where most of the students do not speak English, or do not speak it any better than she.
Remember, no one in FCPS is ever fired, much like no student is every expelled. Being incompetent in your job is not a reason to be dismissed, although it might land you a cushy job, for more pay, in the administration.
Much of what our school board does has nothing to do with students. It's about promoting their political agenda. Students are simply their pawns to implement that agenda, an agenda that has been proven wrong, every single time. No matter. They will persist until the bitter end! Politics, social experiments, educational fads, and affirmative action, are far more important to them than the mere education of children.
If we were to address the race issue, it would come down to addressing the problems in the Black culture. Since our democrat school board believes all cultures to be equal, that's a non starter.
Our school board uses the excuse that black kids need black role models to practice their affirmative action with principal promotions. There is ZERO evidence that black principals have EVER improved black performance of students in FCPS. No matter. Our school board hates to be confused with the facts. They want to promote blacks. Period. So they will.
That didn't quite work when Madison got stuck with an incompetent black principal a few years back. They said she was promoted to Madison because of her excellent track record with black student discipline. For a high school with less than 4% black students, and few discipline problems, parents and students were left scratching their heads. When she made her first address to the parents it was clear that she knew little about academics, AP courses, and getting students prepared for college, which 95% of Madison parents and students view as most important. When she could not use proper English grammar when addressing parents at back-to-school night it became even more clear that she was simply another example of an FCPS employee promoted beyond her level of competence through FCPS affirmative action. It took three LOOOOONG years to get rid of her. She was universally disliked at Madison. She was finally sent to an alternative high school where most of the students do not speak English, or do not speak it any better than she.
Remember, no one in FCPS is ever fired, much like no student is every expelled. Being incompetent in your job is not a reason to be dismissed, although it might land you a cushy job, for more pay, in the administration.
Much of what our school board does has nothing to do with students. It's about promoting their political agenda. Students are simply their pawns to implement that agenda, an agenda that has been proven wrong, every single time. No matter. They will persist until the bitter end! Politics, social experiments, educational fads, and affirmative action, are far more important to them than the mere education of children.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:03PM
According to the Superintendent, it is likely to be a domino. Chantilly kids sent to Westfield, Westfield students to Oakton, and Oakton students sent to South Lakes along with students from the Madison Island and the North End of Reston. Obviously our school board, Smith, Gibson,and Straus, agreed to this or it wouldn't be the plan.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:10PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CT, how is the Madison island 'technically in
> Reston' when every address in the island is
> Vienna?
Only part of the Wolf trap (Madison) island in "technically in Reston" because it is with the boundary of Reston established in 1965 and re-enforced by the adoption of Small Tax District #5 to fund the Reston Community Center. Postal addresses are irrelevant. They are moved and changed by the USPS whenever the spirit moves it.
But if you'd actually read prior posts to this thread, you'd have pick that up already.
-------------------------------------------------------
> CT, how is the Madison island 'technically in
> Reston' when every address in the island is
> Vienna?
Only part of the Wolf trap (Madison) island in "technically in Reston" because it is with the boundary of Reston established in 1965 and re-enforced by the adoption of Small Tax District #5 to fund the Reston Community Center. Postal addresses are irrelevant. They are moved and changed by the USPS whenever the spirit moves it.
But if you'd actually read prior posts to this thread, you'd have pick that up already.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:14PM
Steve Hunt thinks that Langley SHOULD be included. BUT he's also aware of the reality of the deals that have been cut. He won't lie and say that Langley is on the table when he knows that is not. Straus decides what happens to Langley and Herndon because those are her schools. She's agreed to give to Gibson what he wants from her district, Aldrin and Armstrong, with the trade off being he doesn't touch any Langley students. She and Gibson have made similar deals in the past. It was the same deal with Vienna GT kids got booted out of Longfellow. Straus agreed to throw Great Falls GT students under the bus, as long as Gibson agreed to no students from McLean being sent to Kilmer even though many McLean students were MUCH closer to Kilmer. Same sort of deal with South Lakes.
Steve Hunt knows what deals have been made. Unfortunately he has no say in those deals because we have no other conservatives on the school board.
Steve is the lone voice. All the democrats vote in lock step with each other and will continue to do so. And why not? It works for them, they always get what ever political agenda they want, boundaries redrawn to their liking, ever fuzzier math, more IB schools, larger classes, larger administration, more teacher training for more fad programs, more dumbing down, and more affirmative action across the board. Oh, and of course, tens of millions of dollars more per year to play with, without having more students to serve! It's a win-win-win for them!
Steve Hunt knows what deals have been made. Unfortunately he has no say in those deals because we have no other conservatives on the school board.
Steve is the lone voice. All the democrats vote in lock step with each other and will continue to do so. And why not? It works for them, they always get what ever political agenda they want, boundaries redrawn to their liking, ever fuzzier math, more IB schools, larger classes, larger administration, more teacher training for more fad programs, more dumbing down, and more affirmative action across the board. Oh, and of course, tens of millions of dollars more per year to play with, without having more students to serve! It's a win-win-win for them!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:17PM
Oh, I see, Reston can simply annex whatever parts of the county that they choose when they need more taxes to fund things in Reston? They can declare a neighborhood in Vienna to be a part of Reston? Cool. I guess.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:19PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> our democrat school board believe
When you did this the first time I excused it as unintentional ignorance. Now, its clear you are intentionally discrespectful and rude. That conduct discredits anything else you might have to contribute to this thread. If your spawn are equally as rude and disrepectful, it is fervently to be hope that they are kept out of South Lakes because they don't deserve to be there. Or anywhere else, for that matter.
I will be asking the moderator to block any further postings you might attempt to make.
Good bye.
-------------------------------------------------------
> our democrat school board believe
When you did this the first time I excused it as unintentional ignorance. Now, its clear you are intentionally discrespectful and rude. That conduct discredits anything else you might have to contribute to this thread. If your spawn are equally as rude and disrepectful, it is fervently to be hope that they are kept out of South Lakes because they don't deserve to be there. Or anywhere else, for that matter.
I will be asking the moderator to block any further postings you might attempt to make.
Good bye.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Kathy's at it again
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:21PM
Stringfellow Rd to be widened! [Finally] but residents near it still bitch and moan
Posted by: KeepOnTruckin (IP Logged)
Date: October 19, 2007 09:33PM
So finally we're going to get Stringfellow widened (by 2011 or so) to 2 lanes each direction from Fairlakes/Wal-Mart to Rt 50. So much less congestion during rush hour.
And yet all the local residents complain about how it will encroach upon their yards. Do they not want this to get built? They need to pull their heads out of their asses.
The local bicyclists also want 10-ft wide sidewalks on each side and a bike lane in the street on each side. I don't feel they need that much, but a lot of them do.
But best of all we have our good friend Kathy Smith trying to get re-elected (dont vote for her) by saying the following: "In my opinion, the safety of our children is jeopardized by having to cross an extra four feet of road." Im not quite sure what to say about that.
Fulll story: [www.connectionnewspapers.com]
Posted by: KeepOnTruckin (IP Logged)
Date: October 19, 2007 09:33PM
So finally we're going to get Stringfellow widened (by 2011 or so) to 2 lanes each direction from Fairlakes/Wal-Mart to Rt 50. So much less congestion during rush hour.
And yet all the local residents complain about how it will encroach upon their yards. Do they not want this to get built? They need to pull their heads out of their asses.
The local bicyclists also want 10-ft wide sidewalks on each side and a bike lane in the street on each side. I don't feel they need that much, but a lot of them do.
But best of all we have our good friend Kathy Smith trying to get re-elected (dont vote for her) by saying the following: "In my opinion, the safety of our children is jeopardized by having to cross an extra four feet of road." Im not quite sure what to say about that.
Fulll story: [www.connectionnewspapers.com]
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Th
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:24PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, I see, Reston can simply annex whatever parts
> of the county that they choose when they need more
> taxes to fund things in Reston? They can declare
> a neighborhood in Vienna to be a part of Reston?
> Cool. I guess.
Just so no one else reading this thread is misled by Neen's endless ignorance. Both acts which created Reston's boundaries were those of the governing body of the County decades ago.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, I see, Reston can simply annex whatever parts
> of the county that they choose when they need more
> taxes to fund things in Reston? They can declare
> a neighborhood in Vienna to be a part of Reston?
> Cool. I guess.
Just so no one else reading this thread is misled by Neen's endless ignorance. Both acts which created Reston's boundaries were those of the governing body of the County decades ago.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:26PM
Terp, no high school in this boundary study is projected to be over crowded in 4 years, except Madison, predicted to be over by 20 students. That's why they must redo their projections now, before the first community meeting. Watch and see how these schools, that have been predicted to have declining populations, for the last 7 years of demographic predictions, will suddenly be predicted to have increasing populations! They'd be funny, if they weren't so obvious.
Current population predictions:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/CapImpPlan2008-2012.pdf
According to these predictions, NO neighborhood should be forced to be moved to South Lakes. In fact, South Lakes could be closed, and the students absorbed by surrounding high schools over the next 4 years. Perhaps FCPS should have looked at their own enrollment predictions BEFORE they invested $50 million in renovating South Lakes and $40 million on the addition to Langley high school. But what the heck, it's only OUR money. And our neighborhoods that will be forced to change schools. Why would they care about such things when Stu Gibson wants more 'rich' kids at South Lakes?
Current population predictions:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/CapImpPlan2008-2012.pdf
According to these predictions, NO neighborhood should be forced to be moved to South Lakes. In fact, South Lakes could be closed, and the students absorbed by surrounding high schools over the next 4 years. Perhaps FCPS should have looked at their own enrollment predictions BEFORE they invested $50 million in renovating South Lakes and $40 million on the addition to Langley high school. But what the heck, it's only OUR money. And our neighborhoods that will be forced to change schools. Why would they care about such things when Stu Gibson wants more 'rich' kids at South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 19, 2007 10:34PM
Thomas, HUH? You're upset because I said that our school board is dominated by democrats? Is that a secret to anyone here? If so, why?
http://www.fairfaxdemocrats.org/election2007.htm
I don't believe that I have done anything against a rules when I say that the school board is controlled by democrats when there are 10 democrats on the board and 2 republicans.
Free speech can be such a drag when people state the truth that you disagree with. Good luck with getting it suppressed. Many forums do cave to such pressure from you folks on the left. So if you whine enough, it might work for you here too. Go for it.
So sorry Thomas More. I know the truth can be painful. :(
http://www.fairfaxdemocrats.org/election2007.htm
I don't believe that I have done anything against a rules when I say that the school board is controlled by democrats when there are 10 democrats on the board and 2 republicans.
Free speech can be such a drag when people state the truth that you disagree with. Good luck with getting it suppressed. Many forums do cave to such pressure from you folks on the left. So if you whine enough, it might work for you here too. Go for it.
So sorry Thomas More. I know the truth can be painful. :(
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 19, 2007 11:09PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, HUH? You're upset because I said that our
> school board is dominated by democrats? Is that a
> secret to anyone here? If so, why?
>
> http://www.fairfaxdemocrats.org/election2007.htm
>
> I don't believe that I have done anything against
> a rules when I say that the school board is
> controlled by democrats when there are 10
> democrats on the board and 2 republicans.
>
> Free speech can be such a drag when people state
> the truth that you disagree with. Good luck with
> getting it suppressed. Many forums do cave to
> such pressure from you folks on the left. So if
> you whine enough, it might work for you here too.
> Go for it.
>
> So sorry Thomas More. I know the truth can be
> painful. :(
One last time. That's not what you previously posted. Had you expressed your previous thought in the fashion used above, no one could object. "The Democratically controlled board", "the Democrats on the Board" would all be acceptable. But "democrat board" is grammatically wrong and intended to offend by suggesting Democrats can't be democratic. This insult coarsens our dialogue and diverts from the important issue that is the heart of this thread.
Instead you used a grammatically incorrect form of the word, parroting the ridiculing jibe of a despicable drunk and demagogue, which I understand Mr. Gingirch to his shame, revived.
I happen to agree with most of the rest of your offending post. But stubborn insistence on using McCarthy's jibe is offensive to grammar and members of that party. No one on this thread has referred to the other major party as authoritarian or fascistic, though even many life long Republicans, including John Dean and Christy Todd Whitman, do so today.
Since this blog is not a government sponsored site, the First Amendment Right of Free Speech does not apply and common courtesy does.
Since I agree with you so often I would miss your posting but I can't abide pointless disrespect and rudeness.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, HUH? You're upset because I said that our
> school board is dominated by democrats? Is that a
> secret to anyone here? If so, why?
>
> http://www.fairfaxdemocrats.org/election2007.htm
>
> I don't believe that I have done anything against
> a rules when I say that the school board is
> controlled by democrats when there are 10
> democrats on the board and 2 republicans.
>
> Free speech can be such a drag when people state
> the truth that you disagree with. Good luck with
> getting it suppressed. Many forums do cave to
> such pressure from you folks on the left. So if
> you whine enough, it might work for you here too.
> Go for it.
>
> So sorry Thomas More. I know the truth can be
> painful. :(
One last time. That's not what you previously posted. Had you expressed your previous thought in the fashion used above, no one could object. "The Democratically controlled board", "the Democrats on the Board" would all be acceptable. But "democrat board" is grammatically wrong and intended to offend by suggesting Democrats can't be democratic. This insult coarsens our dialogue and diverts from the important issue that is the heart of this thread.
Instead you used a grammatically incorrect form of the word, parroting the ridiculing jibe of a despicable drunk and demagogue, which I understand Mr. Gingirch to his shame, revived.
I happen to agree with most of the rest of your offending post. But stubborn insistence on using McCarthy's jibe is offensive to grammar and members of that party. No one on this thread has referred to the other major party as authoritarian or fascistic, though even many life long Republicans, including John Dean and Christy Todd Whitman, do so today.
Since this blog is not a government sponsored site, the First Amendment Right of Free Speech does not apply and common courtesy does.
Since I agree with you so often I would miss your posting but I can't abide pointless disrespect and rudeness.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 19, 2007 11:22PM
The Democrats: Stu Gibson, Kathy Smith Must GO!!!
VOTE THESE PUSHY THUGS OUT OF OFFICE!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Re
()
Date: October 20, 2007 12:26AM
As a north Reston resident, Armstrong & HHS parent and first time blogger I would like to present a few facts that are SUPPOSED to be primary considerations in boundary change decisions:
SOCIO ECONOMIC CHARACTERISTICS- if Armstrong and Aldrin were to be redistricted to SL, you (or should I say STU) would be gutting an already diverse school at HHS. When I sked Stu how he planned on replacing those students, he replied possible Floris and McNair...now that seems like apples to apples doesn't it????
PROJECTED ENROLLMENTS- I believe that has been adequetely addressed and it will be interesting to see those "new" justified numbers
BUSING TIME AND COSTS- ever tried to drive from Rte 7 and Reston Pkwy to SL during rush hour? It's probably about the same amount of time it takes to get from FFX Cty Pkwy/Rte 7 to Langley....pretty sure that destination is not the same. For those with athletes,every game would be an away game
SCHOOL FEEDER ALLIGNMENTS- currently all Herndon Middle School students feed into HHS and every parent I know is against split feeders and breaking the community connections
CONTIGUOUS SCHOOL BOUNDARIES- HHS has no islands and virtually all residences are within 2.5 aerial miles..again, how can you justify?
DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS & RESOURCES- Why should HHS, who has the most racially diverse population of any school in this study, have to lose a large white population which would potentially affect the current AP course offerings?
NO SCHOOL SHOULD BE IMPROVED TO THE DETRIMENT OF ANOTHER!! Plain and simple....except that Stu always adheres to his own agenda and it is time for a change. We want South Lakes to be a better school with new principal, facilities etc. Clearly it's taking from over crowded and giving to under enrolled ...maybe that's too simple. TIME FOR A CHANGE.......STU NEEDS TO GO...he hasn't done a thing for North Reston and we've all seen where his efforts have gone with South Reston and SL
SOCIO ECONOMIC CHARACTERISTICS- if Armstrong and Aldrin were to be redistricted to SL, you (or should I say STU) would be gutting an already diverse school at HHS. When I sked Stu how he planned on replacing those students, he replied possible Floris and McNair...now that seems like apples to apples doesn't it????
PROJECTED ENROLLMENTS- I believe that has been adequetely addressed and it will be interesting to see those "new" justified numbers
BUSING TIME AND COSTS- ever tried to drive from Rte 7 and Reston Pkwy to SL during rush hour? It's probably about the same amount of time it takes to get from FFX Cty Pkwy/Rte 7 to Langley....pretty sure that destination is not the same. For those with athletes,every game would be an away game
SCHOOL FEEDER ALLIGNMENTS- currently all Herndon Middle School students feed into HHS and every parent I know is against split feeders and breaking the community connections
CONTIGUOUS SCHOOL BOUNDARIES- HHS has no islands and virtually all residences are within 2.5 aerial miles..again, how can you justify?
DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS & RESOURCES- Why should HHS, who has the most racially diverse population of any school in this study, have to lose a large white population which would potentially affect the current AP course offerings?
NO SCHOOL SHOULD BE IMPROVED TO THE DETRIMENT OF ANOTHER!! Plain and simple....except that Stu always adheres to his own agenda and it is time for a change. We want South Lakes to be a better school with new principal, facilities etc. Clearly it's taking from over crowded and giving to under enrolled ...maybe that's too simple. TIME FOR A CHANGE.......STU NEEDS TO GO...he hasn't done a thing for North Reston and we've all seen where his efforts have gone with South Reston and SL
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 20, 2007 12:38AM
Thomas,
I forgot to add, my 'spawn' (as you call them in your oh-so-polite manner) will never go to South Lakes. They go to TJ. My base school is not involved in any boundary issue. I just happen to care about other children and their education. What a concept.
Again, sorry that your feelings have been hurt by my mention of democrats. I won't mention them again. I realize that they are offensive to many people.
I forgot to add, my 'spawn' (as you call them in your oh-so-polite manner) will never go to South Lakes. They go to TJ. My base school is not involved in any boundary issue. I just happen to care about other children and their education. What a concept.
Again, sorry that your feelings have been hurt by my mention of democrats. I won't mention them again. I realize that they are offensive to many people.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 20, 2007 12:52AM
Re,
What has Stu ever done to help South Lakes? If he had helped South Lakes over the last 12 years, we wouldn't be having this discussion. There would be no need to force others to go to South Lakes if he had done his job and made South Lakes a school that drew students to it.
I agree that sending Aldrin and Armstrong to South Lakes is devastating to Herndon. Herndon will have the same problems that South Lakes now has. But Stu is determined to make it happen and it would appear that Janie Straus has agreed to let them go to South Lakes. North End people don't vote for her anyway, but one would think that she would care enough about her school, Herndon, to not let this happen. Obviously not. :(
It appears that Stu will achieve his goal of making ALL of Reston go to South Lakes, along with a few other neighborhoods thrown in.
In whose district are Floris and McNair? Kathy Smith? If she gets McNair out of one of her high schools, and sent to Herndon or South Lakes, that's a win for her as it would help the scores at Westfield. McNair will be sent to one of those schools, South Lakes or Herndon. Herndon is most likely since it's obvious that Janie is willing to throw Herndon under the bus as long as she can protect Langley.
What has Stu ever done to help South Lakes? If he had helped South Lakes over the last 12 years, we wouldn't be having this discussion. There would be no need to force others to go to South Lakes if he had done his job and made South Lakes a school that drew students to it.
I agree that sending Aldrin and Armstrong to South Lakes is devastating to Herndon. Herndon will have the same problems that South Lakes now has. But Stu is determined to make it happen and it would appear that Janie Straus has agreed to let them go to South Lakes. North End people don't vote for her anyway, but one would think that she would care enough about her school, Herndon, to not let this happen. Obviously not. :(
It appears that Stu will achieve his goal of making ALL of Reston go to South Lakes, along with a few other neighborhoods thrown in.
In whose district are Floris and McNair? Kathy Smith? If she gets McNair out of one of her high schools, and sent to Herndon or South Lakes, that's a win for her as it would help the scores at Westfield. McNair will be sent to one of those schools, South Lakes or Herndon. Herndon is most likely since it's obvious that Janie is willing to throw Herndon under the bus as long as she can protect Langley.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 20, 2007 01:01AM
Thomas More,
Are you kidding? You're going to report me for saying democrat party? Please, be my guest. You've made it very clear how little respect for free speech the democrat party has. OOOPS-----pardon me, I wouldn't want to offend you again, democratic party.
Yes, I am aware that I am not covered by the Bill of Rights on any forum. I never said I was. But I really do not think I will be banned for saying democrat party. You'll have to do better than that if you want my opinions banned, which is obviously your goal.
GET OVER YOURSELF. No one gives a rat's behind if democrats belong to the democrat party or the democratic party. Only whiny democrats would notice, or care. This is a thread about boundaries, not what YOU want your little party called. Whine about it elsewhere. Please. (I wouldn't want to be rude.)
Now.........back to your regularly scheduled program..........
Are you kidding? You're going to report me for saying democrat party? Please, be my guest. You've made it very clear how little respect for free speech the democrat party has. OOOPS-----pardon me, I wouldn't want to offend you again, democratic party.
Yes, I am aware that I am not covered by the Bill of Rights on any forum. I never said I was. But I really do not think I will be banned for saying democrat party. You'll have to do better than that if you want my opinions banned, which is obviously your goal.
GET OVER YOURSELF. No one gives a rat's behind if democrats belong to the democrat party or the democratic party. Only whiny democrats would notice, or care. This is a thread about boundaries, not what YOU want your little party called. Whine about it elsewhere. Please. (I wouldn't want to be rude.)
Now.........back to your regularly scheduled program..........
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:16AM
The Democrats: Stu Gibson, Kathy Smith Must GO!!!
VOTE THESE PUSHY THUGS OUT OF OFFICE!!!
kathy Smith is now getting nervous this will push her out of office. Keep up the good fight get the democrats out
VOTE THESE PUSHY THUGS OUT OF OFFICE!!!
kathy Smith is now getting nervous this will push her out of office. Keep up the good fight get the democrats out
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:17AM
Re Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SOCIO ECONOMIC CHARACTERISTICS- if Armstrong and
> Aldrin were to be redistricted to SL, you (or
> should I say STU) would be gutting an already
> diverse school at HHS. When I sked Stu how he
> planned on replacing those students, he replied
> possible Floris and McNair...now that seems like
> apples to apples doesn't it????
So is your family in Armstrong or Aldrin? If you're in Armstrong, are you in RA?
This issue is one of the reasons many of us want Forestville returned to Herndon which is where those kids went not that long ago. Would that effect your view?
> PROJECTED ENROLLMENTS- I believe that has been
> adequetely addressed and it will be interesting to
> see those "new" justified numbers
>
> BUSING TIME AND COSTS- ever tried to drive from
> Rte 7 and Reston Pkwy to SL during rush hour? It's
> probably about the same amount of time it takes to
> get from FFX Cty Pkwy/Rte 7 to Langley....pretty
> sure that destination is not the same. For those
> with athletes,every game would be an away game
I've made the Armstong to SL trip a hundred times or more during rush hour and while it takes longer than Armstrong to HHS, it's less than one-third as long as Forestville to Langley at the same hour.
Armstrong to SL is still alot shorter than McNair to Westfield; McNair to SL; or Fox Mill to Oakton.
> SCHOOL FEEDER ALLIGNMENTS- currently all Herndon
> Middle School students feed into HHS and every
> parent I know is against split feeders and
> breaking the community connections
>
This issue hasn't been addressed.
However, moving Aldrin and Armstrong to SL does unify a currently divided community, Reston, which has its energy unnecessarily diffused between two high schools to the detriment of all Reston's kids. What I hear from many parents of North Point/Herndon kids is that they feel treated as aliens at Herndon because they didn't participate in Herndon Optimist Youth activities like the other kids at HHS but played for Reston Little League or Reston Youth Basketball or took swimming lessons at RCC instead of the Herndon community center or went to RCC or RA camps. They are frequently the first cut when they try out at Herndon (unless they are an undeniable blue chipper). Most parents of kids I've coached in RLL or RYB from North Point are disappointed and sad when I tell them their kids won't be coming to South Lakes with their other teammates.
> CONTIGUOUS SCHOOL BOUNDARIES- HHS has no islands
> and virtually all residences are within 2.5 aerial
> miles..again, how can you justify?
Forestville and McNair are both contigous to HHS now.
Neither Floris nor McNair are contiguous to SL.
> DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS & RESOURCES- Why should
> HHS, who has the most racially diverse population
> of any school in this study, have to lose a large
> white population which would potentially affect
> the current AP course offerings?
SL suffers from exactly this problem now. Courses can't be offered because
there aren't enough students to met the required budget ratios to hire the necessary teachers.
> NO SCHOOL SHOULD BE IMPROVED TO THE DETRIMENT OF
> ANOTHER!! Plain and simple....except that Stu
> always adheres to his own agenda and it is time
> for a change. We want South Lakes to be a better
> school with new principal, facilities etc. Clearly
> it's taking from over crowded and giving to under
> enrolled ...maybe that's too simple. TIME FOR A
> CHANGE.......STU NEEDS TO GO...he hasn't done a
> thing for North Reston and we've all seen where
> his efforts have gone with South Reston and SL
I have no use for Stu. He let SL suffer under Railly's Reign of Terror long after is was clear she was a disaster.
Stu claims that School Board regs preclude adding Forestville to the study.
Arakelian has committed to adding Langley to the study.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SOCIO ECONOMIC CHARACTERISTICS- if Armstrong and
> Aldrin were to be redistricted to SL, you (or
> should I say STU) would be gutting an already
> diverse school at HHS. When I sked Stu how he
> planned on replacing those students, he replied
> possible Floris and McNair...now that seems like
> apples to apples doesn't it????
So is your family in Armstrong or Aldrin? If you're in Armstrong, are you in RA?
This issue is one of the reasons many of us want Forestville returned to Herndon which is where those kids went not that long ago. Would that effect your view?
> PROJECTED ENROLLMENTS- I believe that has been
> adequetely addressed and it will be interesting to
> see those "new" justified numbers
>
> BUSING TIME AND COSTS- ever tried to drive from
> Rte 7 and Reston Pkwy to SL during rush hour? It's
> probably about the same amount of time it takes to
> get from FFX Cty Pkwy/Rte 7 to Langley....pretty
> sure that destination is not the same. For those
> with athletes,every game would be an away game
I've made the Armstong to SL trip a hundred times or more during rush hour and while it takes longer than Armstrong to HHS, it's less than one-third as long as Forestville to Langley at the same hour.
Armstrong to SL is still alot shorter than McNair to Westfield; McNair to SL; or Fox Mill to Oakton.
> SCHOOL FEEDER ALLIGNMENTS- currently all Herndon
> Middle School students feed into HHS and every
> parent I know is against split feeders and
> breaking the community connections
>
This issue hasn't been addressed.
However, moving Aldrin and Armstrong to SL does unify a currently divided community, Reston, which has its energy unnecessarily diffused between two high schools to the detriment of all Reston's kids. What I hear from many parents of North Point/Herndon kids is that they feel treated as aliens at Herndon because they didn't participate in Herndon Optimist Youth activities like the other kids at HHS but played for Reston Little League or Reston Youth Basketball or took swimming lessons at RCC instead of the Herndon community center or went to RCC or RA camps. They are frequently the first cut when they try out at Herndon (unless they are an undeniable blue chipper). Most parents of kids I've coached in RLL or RYB from North Point are disappointed and sad when I tell them their kids won't be coming to South Lakes with their other teammates.
> CONTIGUOUS SCHOOL BOUNDARIES- HHS has no islands
> and virtually all residences are within 2.5 aerial
> miles..again, how can you justify?
Forestville and McNair are both contigous to HHS now.
Neither Floris nor McNair are contiguous to SL.
> DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS & RESOURCES- Why should
> HHS, who has the most racially diverse population
> of any school in this study, have to lose a large
> white population which would potentially affect
> the current AP course offerings?
SL suffers from exactly this problem now. Courses can't be offered because
there aren't enough students to met the required budget ratios to hire the necessary teachers.
> NO SCHOOL SHOULD BE IMPROVED TO THE DETRIMENT OF
> ANOTHER!! Plain and simple....except that Stu
> always adheres to his own agenda and it is time
> for a change. We want South Lakes to be a better
> school with new principal, facilities etc. Clearly
> it's taking from over crowded and giving to under
> enrolled ...maybe that's too simple. TIME FOR A
> CHANGE.......STU NEEDS TO GO...he hasn't done a
> thing for North Reston and we've all seen where
> his efforts have gone with South Reston and SL
I have no use for Stu. He let SL suffer under Railly's Reign of Terror long after is was clear she was a disaster.
Stu claims that School Board regs preclude adding Forestville to the study.
Arakelian has committed to adding Langley to the study.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:25AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I forgot to add, my 'spawn' (as you call them in
> your oh-so-polite manner) will never go to South
> Lakes. They go to TJ. My base school is not
> involved in any boundary issue.
So you're using the limited amount of time left in your life to participate in a blog that has nothing to do with your family or neighborhood by insulting and denigrating people who frequently agree with you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I forgot to add, my 'spawn' (as you call them in
> your oh-so-polite manner) will never go to South
> Lakes. They go to TJ. My base school is not
> involved in any boundary issue.
So you're using the limited amount of time left in your life to participate in a blog that has nothing to do with your family or neighborhood by insulting and denigrating people who frequently agree with you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer is a DEMOCRAT
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:59AM
truth seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Democrats: Stu Gibson, Kathy Smith Must GO!!!...
I'm an older Democrat and extremely disgusted - odd boundaries dev under Lou Zone and Dranesville's Stu Mendelsohn. Scary thought that Stu M is on the Tysons Task Force. Maybe his school board tenure was influenced by his place of residence - along Route 7 near Tysons [an area that could go to Marshall but is at Langley]. StuM/LZone built the Route 7 Corridor to Langley. StuG/Strauss expanded and perpetuated it.
The point is when politics get down to a very local level I don't see Dems or Repubs but rather core integrity issues...some Repubs we've had are more likely to not vote as sheep and are willing to engage in debate on instruction, etc. Personally, I think Tisdadt is doing a good job - successfully routed out why so few schools get work done under boards renovation plans. Transporation is hamstrung by political boundaries and programs ...
Many on the board last boundary cycle should be canned after they CANCELLED THE TO LAKE BRADDOCK FROM SOUTH COUNTY BOUNDARY PROCESS.
Unfortunately, that portion never even made it to the hearings...the public gets so focussed issues [ie where their house goes to school] that we often lose sight of the bigger picture in a COUNTY WIDE SCHOOL DIVISION.
Based on Tisdadt's memo, the unneeded langley addition, the overbuilding on Glasgow, the cancellation of the South County boundary process, politicians committing to building an unneeded school [Va law separates board of supervisors from schools on facilities yet Gerry Connelly is lobbying for South County MS] etc ...add up all the modulars, additions, etc and we had an amount approaching a school. Check enrollments and get really creative like FCPS was in the eighties - flip buildings grade levels etc.
SECONDARY SCHOOL AT BARON CAMERON?
VOTE NO ON THE BOND REFERENDUM?
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Democrats: Stu Gibson, Kathy Smith Must GO!!!...
I'm an older Democrat and extremely disgusted - odd boundaries dev under Lou Zone and Dranesville's Stu Mendelsohn. Scary thought that Stu M is on the Tysons Task Force. Maybe his school board tenure was influenced by his place of residence - along Route 7 near Tysons [an area that could go to Marshall but is at Langley]. StuM/LZone built the Route 7 Corridor to Langley. StuG/Strauss expanded and perpetuated it.
The point is when politics get down to a very local level I don't see Dems or Repubs but rather core integrity issues...some Repubs we've had are more likely to not vote as sheep and are willing to engage in debate on instruction, etc. Personally, I think Tisdadt is doing a good job - successfully routed out why so few schools get work done under boards renovation plans. Transporation is hamstrung by political boundaries and programs ...
Many on the board last boundary cycle should be canned after they CANCELLED THE TO LAKE BRADDOCK FROM SOUTH COUNTY BOUNDARY PROCESS.
Unfortunately, that portion never even made it to the hearings...the public gets so focussed issues [ie where their house goes to school] that we often lose sight of the bigger picture in a COUNTY WIDE SCHOOL DIVISION.
Based on Tisdadt's memo, the unneeded langley addition, the overbuilding on Glasgow, the cancellation of the South County boundary process, politicians committing to building an unneeded school [Va law separates board of supervisors from schools on facilities yet Gerry Connelly is lobbying for South County MS] etc ...add up all the modulars, additions, etc and we had an amount approaching a school. Check enrollments and get really creative like FCPS was in the eighties - flip buildings grade levels etc.
SECONDARY SCHOOL AT BARON CAMERON?
VOTE NO ON THE BOND REFERENDUM?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 20, 2007 08:54AM
I agree with taxpayer--democrat vs republican has very little to do with local politics. I see no relationship of political party to who I would vote for.
And Neen, Thomas is right about your rudeness. It undermines your credibility. If you really want to have a voice here, clean up your act. If you respond to this with more rudeness hurled at me, as I predict, you will just prove my point.
And Neen, Thomas is right about your rudeness. It undermines your credibility. If you really want to have a voice here, clean up your act. If you respond to this with more rudeness hurled at me, as I predict, you will just prove my point.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 20, 2007 09:15AM
My difficulty with the political parties are the positions they hold and the subsequent adherence to these positions by local politicians. That is to say, if I favor the current laws on handguns and a woman's right to fetus termination, I really have no choice with the Commonwealth senate candidates. Yes, where are my priorities? Very difficult with competing priorities. I'm still waiting for the League of Women Voters or the local Connections to provide the candidates and the issues they support.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 20, 2007 09:41AM
Msg to Bob James....
a real man would not be waiting on the League of Women Voters to tell him what to do
a real man would not be waiting on the League of Women Voters to tell him what to do
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 20, 2007 10:20AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the Superintendent, it is likely to
> be a domino. Chantilly kids sent to Westfield,
> Westfield students to Oakton, and Oakton students
> sent to South Lakes along with students from the
> Madison Island and the North End of Reston.
> Obviously our school board, Smith, Gibson,and
> Straus, agreed to this or it wouldn't be the plan.
I have heard that the domino is going the other way--Chantilly to Oakton, Oakton to SL. Westfield to who knows, SL or Herndon.
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the Superintendent, it is likely to
> be a domino. Chantilly kids sent to Westfield,
> Westfield students to Oakton, and Oakton students
> sent to South Lakes along with students from the
> Madison Island and the North End of Reston.
> Obviously our school board, Smith, Gibson,and
> Straus, agreed to this or it wouldn't be the plan.
I have heard that the domino is going the other way--Chantilly to Oakton, Oakton to SL. Westfield to who knows, SL or Herndon.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 20, 2007 10:29AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> What is Steve Hunt's position on Langley?
I didn't ask about Langley. My question had to deal with why wasn't Centreville included in the study since Westfield is supposedly soooooo over crowded. Nobody has a good answer for that except that Centreville is too crowded. Ok, well Chantilly is overcrowded too, but they are included in the study..So I asked about that, and that is when I got the domino explanation. Chantilly kids get sent to Oakton, since some of Oakton is going to SL. If we are dominoing---why can't we domino some kids from Westfield back into Centreville and send some Centreville to Fairfax?
Also, McNair and Floris are in Hunter Mill District...So with Stu were screwed as McNair has been from the get go.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> What is Steve Hunt's position on Langley?
I didn't ask about Langley. My question had to deal with why wasn't Centreville included in the study since Westfield is supposedly soooooo over crowded. Nobody has a good answer for that except that Centreville is too crowded. Ok, well Chantilly is overcrowded too, but they are included in the study..So I asked about that, and that is when I got the domino explanation. Chantilly kids get sent to Oakton, since some of Oakton is going to SL. If we are dominoing---why can't we domino some kids from Westfield back into Centreville and send some Centreville to Fairfax?
Also, McNair and Floris are in Hunter Mill District...So with Stu were screwed as McNair has been from the get go.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gerry Mandering
()
Date: October 20, 2007 10:53AM
"I'm an older Democrat and extremely disgusted - odd boundaries dev under Lou Zone and Dranesville's Stu Mendelsohn. Scary thought that Stu M is on the Tysons Task Force. Maybe his school board tenure was influenced by his place of residence - along Route 7 near Tysons [an area that could go to Marshall but is at Langley]. StuM/LZone built the Route 7 Corridor to Langley. StuG/Strauss expanded and perpetuated it."
In fact, that corridor was under the Marshall pyramid. Let's see if politics had anything to do with changing to Langley/McLean. Marshall is within 4 mile from there. Langley is a good 10 miles down treacherous and congested Georgetown Pike. I'm interest to see where the attendance area for Maymont, the multi million $ home development off Beulah Rd that is being built.
In fact, that corridor was under the Marshall pyramid. Let's see if politics had anything to do with changing to Langley/McLean. Marshall is within 4 mile from there. Langley is a good 10 miles down treacherous and congested Georgetown Pike. I'm interest to see where the attendance area for Maymont, the multi million $ home development off Beulah Rd that is being built.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 20, 2007 11:58AM
word, very weak and disingenuous repartee:
Msg to Bob James....
a real man would not be waiting on the League of Women Voters to tell him what to do
My sincere rejoiner:
lol...attacking ones manhood, discrediting the League of Women Voters, and demonstrating one of Fairfax County's critical thinking failures doesn't reflect too well on you, word
Sound decision making is based upon obtaining and understanding facts (issues). The League of Women Voters, in some jurisdictions, provides that information.
Msg to Bob James....
a real man would not be waiting on the League of Women Voters to tell him what to do
My sincere rejoiner:
lol...attacking ones manhood, discrediting the League of Women Voters, and demonstrating one of Fairfax County's critical thinking failures doesn't reflect too well on you, word
Sound decision making is based upon obtaining and understanding facts (issues). The League of Women Voters, in some jurisdictions, provides that information.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 20, 2007 01:39PM
Bob James Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
League of Women Voters
this is off topic slightly but I'm interested in your perspective
My Mom, God rest her, was a charter member of the League in my home town up north and when they
opened up to men I join because when my Mom had hosted unit coffees at our home I had always found the discussion equal to or better than my college semianrs in poli sci.
I joined the League when I first moved here and to my shock found the local practice of development closed minded dictatorial authoritarian and overly cnetralize. On hearing my impressions, my Mom said the experience was definitely not the League but probably a local practice that reflected the local political culture.
What's been your experience, have you experienced League practices elsewhere. If this gets to elaborate we can take this to a new forum.
-------------------------------------------------------
League of Women Voters
this is off topic slightly but I'm interested in your perspective
My Mom, God rest her, was a charter member of the League in my home town up north and when they
opened up to men I join because when my Mom had hosted unit coffees at our home I had always found the discussion equal to or better than my college semianrs in poli sci.
I joined the League when I first moved here and to my shock found the local practice of development closed minded dictatorial authoritarian and overly cnetralize. On hearing my impressions, my Mom said the experience was definitely not the League but probably a local practice that reflected the local political culture.
What's been your experience, have you experienced League practices elsewhere. If this gets to elaborate we can take this to a new forum.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Andrew
()
Date: October 20, 2007 04:47PM
Okay, I'm going to give you lady's and gentlemen some background information about myself before writing this post. I am currently a 10th grade student at south lakes high school. And personally i LOVE the school. Of course south lakes gets a terrible completely stereotypically bad rep. You know why? because of the minority's. Now im not saying that these are acceptable or true because there not, in fact there are extremely incorrect. But of you are sooooo worried about them...let me let you in on a little secret. If your worried about your child being around "gangs" or any other bad things in south lakes then take the ib program... Its challenging, looks good, and separates you from all that don't have some form of intelligence. Also get involved in sports the teams starting to get better even though we have such a small amount of people (great coaches). In fact the football teams strive to keep you from bad things and influence you to do good!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 20, 2007 06:00PM
Andrew,
You sound like a real good kid who's got his act together. And I'm sure there are plenty more like you at South Lakes.
I think the real problem is that everyone at the neighboring schools like where they are going to school too. Imagine if you were selected to go to another school where you didn't know anyone. You probably wouldn't like that given that most of your friends got to stay at South Lakes, but not you. Gone would be all of the friends, teachers, coaches, etc.
The kids at Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield are all very close because they play in the same sports leagues. No one really knows the kids from Reston because they have their own leagues. It's maybe the fear of the unknown.
I hope you continue to do well in school.
You sound like a real good kid who's got his act together. And I'm sure there are plenty more like you at South Lakes.
I think the real problem is that everyone at the neighboring schools like where they are going to school too. Imagine if you were selected to go to another school where you didn't know anyone. You probably wouldn't like that given that most of your friends got to stay at South Lakes, but not you. Gone would be all of the friends, teachers, coaches, etc.
The kids at Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield are all very close because they play in the same sports leagues. No one really knows the kids from Reston because they have their own leagues. It's maybe the fear of the unknown.
I hope you continue to do well in school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 20, 2007 06:14PM
Andrew Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I'm going to give you lady's and gentlemen
> some background information about myself before
> writing this post. I am currently a 10th grade
> student at south lakes high school. And
> personally i LOVE the school. Of course south
> lakes gets a terrible completely stereotypically
> bad rep. You know why? because of the minority's.
> Now im not saying that these are acceptable
> or true because there not, in fact there are
> extremely incorrect. But of you are sooooo worried
> about them...let me let you in on a little secret.
> If your worried about your child being around
> "gangs" or any other bad things in south lakes
> then take the ib program... Its challenging, looks
> good, and separates you from all that don't have
> some form of intelligence. Also get involved in
> sports the teams starting to get better even
> though we have such a small amount of people
> (great coaches). In fact the football teams strive
> to keep you from bad things and influence you to
> do good!
Your right. The greatest strength of South Lakes is its diverse and mutually supportive student body. Clicks are few and not demeaning to others. The student body is comfortable in each others company and truly happy for each other's success on the field (which happens too rarely), in the classroom and in the college acceptance paper chase.
I'm very glad your happy at SL and with the football team.
The swim team coach is outstanding. The band was nationally rank last year.
The new women's basketball coach is impressive. The new vollleyball coach is personable. The new basketball coach is also a good man and appears ready to compete relying on boys who went to Reston elementary schools and less on transfers from outside the attendance area.
The former cheering coach was great. Her successors are very young. One of them has college experience in gymnastics. Hopefully they will mature as they gain experience.
I cannot speak to the soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, track or other coaches. Perhaps others can speak to those sports.
But please get real about the football coach. Five straight losing season. The teams have not gotten any better over those five years. We have former pro and college players watching in the stands every week and they cannot believe how poorly the team has been coached. The players don't know how to do the basics: blocking and tackling. Ellenbarfer never played above the D-II level. I could go on at length as some of the non-sense he's pulled and he needs to go now.
The baseball coach never graduated college, never played minor league ball and refused an offer from former DSA Bob Grauman to have FCPS pay for him to finish his Bachelors degree. Despite repeated complaints from parents, he and his players continued to use snuff on school property for many years. Not only is snuff a proven cancer causing substance, using it on school property is a misdemeanor. He only stopped after he was called on the carpet by the principal.
He makes no attempt to help his players move on to play in college. Despite his neglect, three of his players are playing college ball, exclusively based on their own efforts and those of their parents.
The jv baseball coach was so abusive that the fastest player in the class of '06 quit the team after sophomore year. The smartest player on that team also quit after sophmore year. This student received multiple academic honors at graduation and is at William & Mary now. His family was so disgusted with the non-responsive reaction of the DSA and the principal to their complaints about this punk coach that they moved out of Reston taking one of the best baseball players in the class of 2010 with them. Multiple baseball players have since used the AP excuse to get pupil place out of South Lakes. This behavior came as no surprise to many in the Reston baseball community. This person is a 2000 SL grad. but missed most of his senior season because early in the scheduke he broke his hand punching the masonry dugout wall. Like the varsity coach, he also has yet to complete college and never played minor league ball. The jv coach was still in place in spring 2007.
The SRO at Hughes had been the assitant jv coach but when he tried to get changes made he was blown off. He didn't come back.
The baseball announcer, father of the jv coach, shouted out criticism of a pitcher being brought in to relieve the starter at a play-off game at Langley. The player's mother, sister, girlfriend and the girlfriend's sister were sitting directly in front of this man. Even after this was pointed out to him, he continued and offered not apology. He was so loud that SL parents sitting on the other side of the Langley press box heard him and apolgized to the parents of the player the next day. Repeated attempts to talk to the DSA about this incident were dismissed.
And if you really want to curl your hair ask about the goings on when the current DSA she was coaching the girls basketball team.
Mr. Butler, the principal, has promised to improve the coaching staff at South Lakes but this is his third year and the changes have been too few and have taken too long.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I'm going to give you lady's and gentlemen
> some background information about myself before
> writing this post. I am currently a 10th grade
> student at south lakes high school. And
> personally i LOVE the school. Of course south
> lakes gets a terrible completely stereotypically
> bad rep. You know why? because of the minority's.
> Now im not saying that these are acceptable
> or true because there not, in fact there are
> extremely incorrect. But of you are sooooo worried
> about them...let me let you in on a little secret.
> If your worried about your child being around
> "gangs" or any other bad things in south lakes
> then take the ib program... Its challenging, looks
> good, and separates you from all that don't have
> some form of intelligence. Also get involved in
> sports the teams starting to get better even
> though we have such a small amount of people
> (great coaches). In fact the football teams strive
> to keep you from bad things and influence you to
> do good!
Your right. The greatest strength of South Lakes is its diverse and mutually supportive student body. Clicks are few and not demeaning to others. The student body is comfortable in each others company and truly happy for each other's success on the field (which happens too rarely), in the classroom and in the college acceptance paper chase.
I'm very glad your happy at SL and with the football team.
The swim team coach is outstanding. The band was nationally rank last year.
The new women's basketball coach is impressive. The new vollleyball coach is personable. The new basketball coach is also a good man and appears ready to compete relying on boys who went to Reston elementary schools and less on transfers from outside the attendance area.
The former cheering coach was great. Her successors are very young. One of them has college experience in gymnastics. Hopefully they will mature as they gain experience.
I cannot speak to the soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, track or other coaches. Perhaps others can speak to those sports.
But please get real about the football coach. Five straight losing season. The teams have not gotten any better over those five years. We have former pro and college players watching in the stands every week and they cannot believe how poorly the team has been coached. The players don't know how to do the basics: blocking and tackling. Ellenbarfer never played above the D-II level. I could go on at length as some of the non-sense he's pulled and he needs to go now.
The baseball coach never graduated college, never played minor league ball and refused an offer from former DSA Bob Grauman to have FCPS pay for him to finish his Bachelors degree. Despite repeated complaints from parents, he and his players continued to use snuff on school property for many years. Not only is snuff a proven cancer causing substance, using it on school property is a misdemeanor. He only stopped after he was called on the carpet by the principal.
He makes no attempt to help his players move on to play in college. Despite his neglect, three of his players are playing college ball, exclusively based on their own efforts and those of their parents.
The jv baseball coach was so abusive that the fastest player in the class of '06 quit the team after sophomore year. The smartest player on that team also quit after sophmore year. This student received multiple academic honors at graduation and is at William & Mary now. His family was so disgusted with the non-responsive reaction of the DSA and the principal to their complaints about this punk coach that they moved out of Reston taking one of the best baseball players in the class of 2010 with them. Multiple baseball players have since used the AP excuse to get pupil place out of South Lakes. This behavior came as no surprise to many in the Reston baseball community. This person is a 2000 SL grad. but missed most of his senior season because early in the scheduke he broke his hand punching the masonry dugout wall. Like the varsity coach, he also has yet to complete college and never played minor league ball. The jv coach was still in place in spring 2007.
The SRO at Hughes had been the assitant jv coach but when he tried to get changes made he was blown off. He didn't come back.
The baseball announcer, father of the jv coach, shouted out criticism of a pitcher being brought in to relieve the starter at a play-off game at Langley. The player's mother, sister, girlfriend and the girlfriend's sister were sitting directly in front of this man. Even after this was pointed out to him, he continued and offered not apology. He was so loud that SL parents sitting on the other side of the Langley press box heard him and apolgized to the parents of the player the next day. Repeated attempts to talk to the DSA about this incident were dismissed.
And if you really want to curl your hair ask about the goings on when the current DSA she was coaching the girls basketball team.
Mr. Butler, the principal, has promised to improve the coaching staff at South Lakes but this is his third year and the changes have been too few and have taken too long.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 20, 2007 06:32PM
capys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew,
>
> You sound like a real good kid who's got his act
> together. And I'm sure there are plenty more like
> you at South Lakes.
>
> I think the real problem is that everyone at the
> neighboring schools like where they are going to
> school too. Imagine if you were selected to go to
> another school where you didn't know anyone. You
> probably wouldn't like that given that most of
> your friends got to stay at South Lakes, but not
> you. Gone would be all of the friends, teachers,
> coaches, etc.
>
> The kids at Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield are
> all very close because they play in the same
> sports leagues. No one really knows the kids from
> Reston because they have their own leagues. It's
> maybe the fear of the unknown.
>
> I hope you continue to do well in school.
Thank you for your gracious words to an SL student.
two hopefully mildly stated points of disagreement.
First, Gibson has given every indication that the reassignments will be implemented with rising freshman in the fall of '08. I intend to hold him to that if he gets re-elected.
Second, as I described in an earlier post, kids from Armstong, Aldrin, Fox Mill and Crossfield have all interacted with kids going to SL throughout their grammar school years in Reston Little League, Reston Youth Basketball, swimming lessons and other youth activites at RCC and the camps and other youth activities offered by Reston Association. One of the misfortunes of the current alignment is that friendships made during these youth activities cannot be continued during the high school day.
I understand this experience may not exist between other schools in the study area but I would think some kids from Navy who wind up at Oakton participate in CYA activities during their grammar school days. Others can speak to these parts of the study area better than me.
Thank you for your kindess
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew,
>
> You sound like a real good kid who's got his act
> together. And I'm sure there are plenty more like
> you at South Lakes.
>
> I think the real problem is that everyone at the
> neighboring schools like where they are going to
> school too. Imagine if you were selected to go to
> another school where you didn't know anyone. You
> probably wouldn't like that given that most of
> your friends got to stay at South Lakes, but not
> you. Gone would be all of the friends, teachers,
> coaches, etc.
>
> The kids at Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield are
> all very close because they play in the same
> sports leagues. No one really knows the kids from
> Reston because they have their own leagues. It's
> maybe the fear of the unknown.
>
> I hope you continue to do well in school.
Thank you for your gracious words to an SL student.
two hopefully mildly stated points of disagreement.
First, Gibson has given every indication that the reassignments will be implemented with rising freshman in the fall of '08. I intend to hold him to that if he gets re-elected.
Second, as I described in an earlier post, kids from Armstong, Aldrin, Fox Mill and Crossfield have all interacted with kids going to SL throughout their grammar school years in Reston Little League, Reston Youth Basketball, swimming lessons and other youth activites at RCC and the camps and other youth activities offered by Reston Association. One of the misfortunes of the current alignment is that friendships made during these youth activities cannot be continued during the high school day.
I understand this experience may not exist between other schools in the study area but I would think some kids from Navy who wind up at Oakton participate in CYA activities during their grammar school days. Others can speak to these parts of the study area better than me.
Thank you for your kindess
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Andrew
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:09PM
Well as a Player i think very highly of my coaches, We recently have had new additions too our coaching staff of great former players. Coach Edwards a D-I scholarship player, who is very knowledgeable of the game. Coach Wooten added this year, a D-I player at Howard University. Ellenberger in my opinion is a great coach that unfortunately is faced with small numbers of committed players. We have had players quit. and also we face injury's to crucial players and don't have great back ups because of our small numbers. This will change as soon as we get more players when the boundaries are extended. Also the William and Marry player for the baseball team.. i believe you are talking about Spencer very cool guy...very intelligent also.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Andrew
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:11PM
capys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew,
>
> You sound like a real good kid who's got his act
> together. And I'm sure there are plenty more like
> you at South Lakes.
>
> I think the real problem is that everyone at the
> neighboring schools like where they are going to
> school too. Imagine if you were selected to go to
> another school where you didn't know anyone. You
> probably wouldn't like that given that most of
> your friends got to stay at South Lakes, but not
> you. Gone would be all of the friends, teachers,
> coaches, etc.
>
> The kids at Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield are
> all very close because they play in the same
> sports leagues. No one really knows the kids from
> Reston because they have their own leagues. It's
> maybe the fear of the unknown.
>
> I hope you continue to do well in school.
My understanding was we would take upcoming freshman from schools and then put them in our schools, so that they wouldn't have met people at the high school and come to the school with others that are in the same situation.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew,
>
> You sound like a real good kid who's got his act
> together. And I'm sure there are plenty more like
> you at South Lakes.
>
> I think the real problem is that everyone at the
> neighboring schools like where they are going to
> school too. Imagine if you were selected to go to
> another school where you didn't know anyone. You
> probably wouldn't like that given that most of
> your friends got to stay at South Lakes, but not
> you. Gone would be all of the friends, teachers,
> coaches, etc.
>
> The kids at Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield are
> all very close because they play in the same
> sports leagues. No one really knows the kids from
> Reston because they have their own leagues. It's
> maybe the fear of the unknown.
>
> I hope you continue to do well in school.
My understanding was we would take upcoming freshman from schools and then put them in our schools, so that they wouldn't have met people at the high school and come to the school with others that are in the same situation.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:44PM
Andrew Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well as a Player i think very highly of my
> coaches, We recently have had new additions too
> our coaching staff of great former players. Coach
> Edwards a D-I scholarship player, who is very
> knowledgeable of the game. Coach Wooten added this
> year, a D-I player at Howard University.
> Ellenberger in my opinion is a great coach that
> unfortunately is faced with small numbers of
> committed players. We have had players quit. and
> also we face injury's to crucial players and don't
> have great back ups because of our small numbers.
> This will change as soon as we get more players
> when the boundaries are extended. Also the William
> and Marry player for the baseball team.. i believe
> you are talking about Spencer very cool guy...very
> intelligent also.
If the plan is adopted to add students to South Lakes one class at a time over four years, you'll be in college before the school is at full enrollment. Hopefully, you're not suggesting that Reston's kids have to wait until 2013 or later to field a winning team, never mind participate in the recently expanded playoffs.
I hope you noticed I had nothing critical to say about Coach Edwards who I agree is a good man. I'd be happy if he succeeded Ellenberger. It may not be know by your teammates but both of Ellenberger's predessecor's took their teams to the playoffs within their first three years when enrollment was only slightly higher than it is now and only four teams from D-5 went to the playoffs.
Coach Randolph had the greater challenge because he did it while SL played in the Concorde District. I'll never understand why Railly fired him as head coach.
Maybe someone else could enlighten me on these circumstances.
Spence is a great kid who never was given a chance in either Little League or on the high school team. You're lucky to know him and his wonderful family.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well as a Player i think very highly of my
> coaches, We recently have had new additions too
> our coaching staff of great former players. Coach
> Edwards a D-I scholarship player, who is very
> knowledgeable of the game. Coach Wooten added this
> year, a D-I player at Howard University.
> Ellenberger in my opinion is a great coach that
> unfortunately is faced with small numbers of
> committed players. We have had players quit. and
> also we face injury's to crucial players and don't
> have great back ups because of our small numbers.
> This will change as soon as we get more players
> when the boundaries are extended. Also the William
> and Marry player for the baseball team.. i believe
> you are talking about Spencer very cool guy...very
> intelligent also.
If the plan is adopted to add students to South Lakes one class at a time over four years, you'll be in college before the school is at full enrollment. Hopefully, you're not suggesting that Reston's kids have to wait until 2013 or later to field a winning team, never mind participate in the recently expanded playoffs.
I hope you noticed I had nothing critical to say about Coach Edwards who I agree is a good man. I'd be happy if he succeeded Ellenberger. It may not be know by your teammates but both of Ellenberger's predessecor's took their teams to the playoffs within their first three years when enrollment was only slightly higher than it is now and only four teams from D-5 went to the playoffs.
Coach Randolph had the greater challenge because he did it while SL played in the Concorde District. I'll never understand why Railly fired him as head coach.
Maybe someone else could enlighten me on these circumstances.
Spence is a great kid who never was given a chance in either Little League or on the high school team. You're lucky to know him and his wonderful family.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 20, 2007 07:55PM
Thomas More you present some fascinating insider information and I thank you for this candor and lucidity. Separating the "significant few from the confusing many" is indeed a critical skill in this thread.
I'm disheartened to learn that the local League of Women Voters has a hidden agenda and apparently is dominated by politicos. They must be colleagues of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's--infamous for his rush to judgment and the attack on Rush Limbaugh http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html. And now the majority leader is trying to put a positive spin on his faux pas.
Ooops, sorry folks...I moved off-topic. I shall repair.
I'm disheartened to learn that the local League of Women Voters has a hidden agenda and apparently is dominated by politicos. They must be colleagues of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's--infamous for his rush to judgment and the attack on Rush Limbaugh http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html. And now the majority leader is trying to put a positive spin on his faux pas.
Ooops, sorry folks...I moved off-topic. I shall repair.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
S/N ratio improvement
()
Date: October 20, 2007 11:18PM
I asked the "boundary study" email ID (boundaries@fcps.edu) a while ago about the "grandfathering" of existing students, and received a nice reply from Dee Sharrocks, Administrative Assistant, Facilities Planning Services, saying in part:
"we never pull children out of a school they are attending so your [child} will be fine if your address is even considered."
Now, I realize that's no guarantee, but it did make me feel somewhat more confident that my [child] will not be moved as a Junior or Senior.
"we never pull children out of a school they are attending so your [child} will be fine if your address is even considered."
Now, I realize that's no guarantee, but it did make me feel somewhat more confident that my [child] will not be moved as a Junior or Senior.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 20, 2007 11:41PM
Thomas More said "your right". Your right to do what? Or did you mean you're right, meaning YOU ARE right?
Just wondering. Did you graduate from South Lakes?
Just wondering. Did you graduate from South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 20, 2007 11:51PM
Stu Gibson told Crossfield PTA parents, and Herndon parents, that there no one would be grandfathered other than rising seniors. If your child is a freshman or sophomore at Herndon or Oakton, next year he goes to South Lakes.
Can someone explain this? Stu has said that he will not permit any kind of academy at South Lakes because they drain off the top kids from other schools. Yet, he has no problem draining off the top kids from Herndon, or Oakton, or Westfield,by forcing them to go to South Lakes. What's the difference between top kids choosing to go to South Lakes and Stu Gibson forcing them to go there? Isn't the result the same? And isn't that the result that school board wants, more top kids in South Lakes? Why is it better for Stu Gibson to decide which top kids go to South Lakes, rather than the top kids choosing to go there because of a good magnet program?
Can someone explain this? Stu has said that he will not permit any kind of academy at South Lakes because they drain off the top kids from other schools. Yet, he has no problem draining off the top kids from Herndon, or Oakton, or Westfield,by forcing them to go to South Lakes. What's the difference between top kids choosing to go to South Lakes and Stu Gibson forcing them to go there? Isn't the result the same? And isn't that the result that school board wants, more top kids in South Lakes? Why is it better for Stu Gibson to decide which top kids go to South Lakes, rather than the top kids choosing to go there because of a good magnet program?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 12:07AM
Bob James Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More you present some fascinating insider
> information and I thank you for this candor and
> lucidity. Separating the "significant few from
> the confusing many" is indeed a critical skill in
> this thread.
You are too kind. Thank you.
>
> I'm disheartened to learn that the local League of
> Women Voters has a hidden agenda and apparently is
> dominated by politicos.
I wasn't suggesting that at all but rather that the Fairfax LWV deviated from my prior experience of League procedure. In my prior experience, League positions were only developed after unit meetings at the neighborhood level, consensus was developed at the precinct level and then at the municipal level, before anyone could address the governing body speaking on behalf of the League. In FFX it appeared that the League position was promulgated by the County-wide level board of directors first and position papers distributed to the local units with the instruction that members be informed of the League position with the expectation that individual members would lobby members of the governing body to adopt the League position,
This top down rather than bottom up development and dissemination of League issue positions struck me as contrary to very core principals of the League.
> They must be colleagues
> of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's--infamous
> for his rush to judgment and the attack on Rush
> Limbaugh . And now the majority leader is trying
> to put a positive spin on his faux pas.
Are you referring to the rebuke directed at that drug addicted lying demogogue for calling a Iraq war veteran, who had publicly criticized the President's conduct of that war, a "poor soldier". That pariah long ago earn permanent ostracism from the public square from every respectable citizen. To paraphrase my neighbor from long ago, "At long last sir, have you no shame? Have you no sense of decency?"
What is it about authoritarian wing nuts that they so frequently find it necessary to engage in substance abuse during their campaign's of hate. Is it self-loathing for the depths of depravity to which they have to descend to continue to feed raw meat to their idolatrous camp followers.
Oh my. Now we are really far afield.
> I shall repair.
I look forward to it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More you present some fascinating insider
> information and I thank you for this candor and
> lucidity. Separating the "significant few from
> the confusing many" is indeed a critical skill in
> this thread.
You are too kind. Thank you.
>
> I'm disheartened to learn that the local League of
> Women Voters has a hidden agenda and apparently is
> dominated by politicos.
I wasn't suggesting that at all but rather that the Fairfax LWV deviated from my prior experience of League procedure. In my prior experience, League positions were only developed after unit meetings at the neighborhood level, consensus was developed at the precinct level and then at the municipal level, before anyone could address the governing body speaking on behalf of the League. In FFX it appeared that the League position was promulgated by the County-wide level board of directors first and position papers distributed to the local units with the instruction that members be informed of the League position with the expectation that individual members would lobby members of the governing body to adopt the League position,
This top down rather than bottom up development and dissemination of League issue positions struck me as contrary to very core principals of the League.
> They must be colleagues
> of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's--infamous
> for his rush to judgment and the attack on Rush
> Limbaugh . And now the majority leader is trying
> to put a positive spin on his faux pas.
Are you referring to the rebuke directed at that drug addicted lying demogogue for calling a Iraq war veteran, who had publicly criticized the President's conduct of that war, a "poor soldier". That pariah long ago earn permanent ostracism from the public square from every respectable citizen. To paraphrase my neighbor from long ago, "At long last sir, have you no shame? Have you no sense of decency?"
What is it about authoritarian wing nuts that they so frequently find it necessary to engage in substance abuse during their campaign's of hate. Is it self-loathing for the depths of depravity to which they have to descend to continue to feed raw meat to their idolatrous camp followers.
Oh my. Now we are really far afield.
> I shall repair.
I look forward to it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 01:41AM
S/N ratio improvement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I asked the "boundary study" email ID
> (boundaries@fcps.edu) a while ago about the
> "grandfathering" of existing students, and
> received a nice reply from Dee Sharrocks,
> Administrative Assistant, Facilities Planning
> Services, saying in part:
>
> "we never pull children out of a school they are
> attending so your will not be moved as a Junior
> or Senior.
In 24 years I've never heard of the FFX School Board forcing upper class members to change schools in a boundary realignment. So I would not spend much time worrying about that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I asked the "boundary study" email ID
> (boundaries@fcps.edu) a while ago about the
> "grandfathering" of existing students, and
> received a nice reply from Dee Sharrocks,
> Administrative Assistant, Facilities Planning
> Services, saying in part:
>
> "we never pull children out of a school they are
> attending so your will not be moved as a Junior
> or Senior.
In 24 years I've never heard of the FFX School Board forcing upper class members to change schools in a boundary realignment. So I would not spend much time worrying about that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 01:48AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu Gibson told Crossfield PTA parents, and
> Herndon parents, that there no one would be
> grandfathered other than rising seniors. If your
> child is a freshman or sophomore at Herndon or
> Oakton, next year he goes to South Lakes.
For any one who might read this posting and become confused, please be advised that Gibson has said multiple times that while the grandfathering will not be adopted until after the attendance area boundaries are adjusted. He has followed that statement for his preference that rising sophomores, juniors and seniors be allowed to stay at their existing school
Correcting all of these immflamatory and inaccurate comments is going to be a full time job. But someone's just got to do it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu Gibson told Crossfield PTA parents, and
> Herndon parents, that there no one would be
> grandfathered other than rising seniors. If your
> child is a freshman or sophomore at Herndon or
> Oakton, next year he goes to South Lakes.
For any one who might read this posting and become confused, please be advised that Gibson has said multiple times that while the grandfathering will not be adopted until after the attendance area boundaries are adjusted. He has followed that statement for his preference that rising sophomores, juniors and seniors be allowed to stay at their existing school
Correcting all of these immflamatory and inaccurate comments is going to be a full time job. But someone's just got to do it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 01:53AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you graduate from South Lakes?
In case this issue is a matter of curiosity for other readers of this blog, South Lakes did not exist when I graduated from high school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you graduate from South Lakes?
In case this issue is a matter of curiosity for other readers of this blog, South Lakes did not exist when I graduated from high school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 21, 2007 04:57AM
Sorry Tom, but you need to ask the parents at Crossfield. Stu Gibson said that South Lakes would be different and most likely ALL kids would go next fall, except for SENIORS. He repeated the statement at a Herndon PTA meeting and repeated it to South Lakes PTA officers this past week. I know that is NOT how FCPS has done it in the past, but Stu wasn't in charge then, as he is now. South Lakes is STU's school, he gets to do what he wants. I've seen NO evidence that he cares what the students or their parents want. Have you?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 21, 2007 05:50AM
Thus spake Thomas More
Are you referring to the rebuke directed at that drug addicted lying demogogue for calling a Iraq war veteran, who had publicly criticized the President's conduct of that war, a "poor soldier". That pariah long ago earn permanent ostracism from the public square from every respectable citizen. To paraphrase my neighbor from long ago, "At long last sir, have you no shame? Have you no sense of decency?"
What is it about authoritarian wing nuts that they so frequently find it necessary to engage in substance abuse during their campaign's of hate. Is it self-loathing for the depths of depravity to which they have to descend to continue to feed raw meat to their idolatrous camp followers.
...and a keen sense of humor, Thomas More
You didn't tell us that you were Honorable Harry's staffer (I kid you).
Now I repair.
Attachments:
Are you referring to the rebuke directed at that drug addicted lying demogogue for calling a Iraq war veteran, who had publicly criticized the President's conduct of that war, a "poor soldier". That pariah long ago earn permanent ostracism from the public square from every respectable citizen. To paraphrase my neighbor from long ago, "At long last sir, have you no shame? Have you no sense of decency?"
What is it about authoritarian wing nuts that they so frequently find it necessary to engage in substance abuse during their campaign's of hate. Is it self-loathing for the depths of depravity to which they have to descend to continue to feed raw meat to their idolatrous camp followers.
...and a keen sense of humor, Thomas More
You didn't tell us that you were Honorable Harry's staffer (I kid you).
Now I repair.
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SullyDistrictVoter
()
Date: October 21, 2007 08:22AM
Hi Kathy Smith...There is a grass roots campaign to distribute this flyer to over 10,000 families. You're not going to be voting on Redistricting.
Stu... We have one for you too. I'll post it later.
Attachments:
Stu... We have one for you too. I'll post it later.
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
See Hawks
()
Date: October 21, 2007 10:05AM
Neen and Word == two four letter words.
Word tries to attack Bob James' manhood and the League or Women Voters, which is a "Nonpartisan political membership organization [that] encourages informed, active participation of citizens in government [and] works to increase understanding of major issues".
I notice Word frequently folds after one or two sentences, thus exhausting his thought for the moment. He apparently sees informed, active participation and increased understanding as the feared enemy.
Neen goes after Thomas More, a model man of letters, and loses woefully in the effort.
More from Thomas, please.
Word tries to attack Bob James' manhood and the League or Women Voters, which is a "Nonpartisan political membership organization [that] encourages informed, active participation of citizens in government [and] works to increase understanding of major issues".
I notice Word frequently folds after one or two sentences, thus exhausting his thought for the moment. He apparently sees informed, active participation and increased understanding as the feared enemy.
Neen goes after Thomas More, a model man of letters, and loses woefully in the effort.
More from Thomas, please.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 21, 2007 11:06AM
Thomas More said:
One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated.
Another great quote:
...Thomas More, a model man of letters,... --See Hawks
And Thank You! SullyDistrictVoter for your posting. My manhood is restored! I am repaired.
Thomas More
Attachments:
One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated.
Another great quote:
...Thomas More, a model man of letters,... --See Hawks
And Thank You! SullyDistrictVoter for your posting. My manhood is restored! I am repaired.
Thomas More
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 11:23AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu Gibson said that South Lakes
> would be different and most likely ALL kids would
> go next fall, except for SENIORS. He repeated the
> statement . . . .
> to South Lakes PTA officers this past week.
So that other readers of this blog can evaluate the credibility of this poster and as someone who was actually was present at the SL PTA mtg, his craveness did not say this. Several of my earlier posts reported Gobson's statements at the meeting.
> I've seen NO evidence that he cares what
> the students or their parents want. Have you?
Anyone who has followed this thread who know that I have a very low opinion of that person
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu Gibson said that South Lakes
> would be different and most likely ALL kids would
> go next fall, except for SENIORS. He repeated the
> statement . . . .
> to South Lakes PTA officers this past week.
So that other readers of this blog can evaluate the credibility of this poster and as someone who was actually was present at the SL PTA mtg, his craveness did not say this. Several of my earlier posts reported Gobson's statements at the meeting.
> I've seen NO evidence that he cares what
> the students or their parents want. Have you?
Anyone who has followed this thread who know that I have a very low opinion of that person
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 11:29AM
See Hawks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen and Word == two four letter words.
>
> Word tries to attack Bob James' manhood and the
> League or Women Voters, which is a "Nonpartisan
> political membership organization encourages
> informed, active participation of citizens in
> government works to increase understanding of
> major issues".
>
> I notice Word frequently folds after one or two
> sentences, thus exhausting his thought for the
> moment. He apparently sees informed, active
> participation and increased understanding as the
> feared enemy.
>
> Neen goes after Thomas More, a model man of
> letters, and loses woefully in the effort.
>
> More from Thomas, please.
Dear fellow Sea Hawk, your kid words are a salve to my scars, but I beg you, please try to keep our postings to facts and opinions relating to the redistricting. Ad hominem attacks are, at the end of the day, a diversion from the exploratioin of solutions to this problem.
Be assured More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen and Word == two four letter words.
>
> Word tries to attack Bob James' manhood and the
> League or Women Voters, which is a "Nonpartisan
> political membership organization encourages
> informed, active participation of citizens in
> government works to increase understanding of
> major issues".
>
> I notice Word frequently folds after one or two
> sentences, thus exhausting his thought for the
> moment. He apparently sees informed, active
> participation and increased understanding as the
> feared enemy.
>
> Neen goes after Thomas More, a model man of
> letters, and loses woefully in the effort.
>
> More from Thomas, please.
Dear fellow Sea Hawk, your kid words are a salve to my scars, but I beg you, please try to keep our postings to facts and opinions relating to the redistricting. Ad hominem attacks are, at the end of the day, a diversion from the exploratioin of solutions to this problem.
Be assured More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 21, 2007 12:57PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stu Gibson told Crossfield PTA parents, and
> > Herndon parents, that there no one would be
> > grandfathered other than rising seniors. If
> your
> > child is a freshman or sophomore at Herndon or
> > Oakton, next year he goes to South Lakes.
>
> For any one who might read this posting and become
> confused, please be advised that Gibson has said
> multiple times that while the grandfathering will
> not be adopted until after the attendance area
> boundaries are adjusted. He has followed that
> statement for his preference that rising
> sophomores, juniors and seniors be allowed to stay
> at their existing school
>
> Correcting all of these immflamatory and
> inaccurate comments is going to be a full time
> job. But someone's just got to do it.
Well Stu is not the only one on the school board and so there are others on the school board including Steve Hunt who say "yes, this will affect risign soph, jr and possilby sr. classes."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stu Gibson told Crossfield PTA parents, and
> > Herndon parents, that there no one would be
> > grandfathered other than rising seniors. If
> your
> > child is a freshman or sophomore at Herndon or
> > Oakton, next year he goes to South Lakes.
>
> For any one who might read this posting and become
> confused, please be advised that Gibson has said
> multiple times that while the grandfathering will
> not be adopted until after the attendance area
> boundaries are adjusted. He has followed that
> statement for his preference that rising
> sophomores, juniors and seniors be allowed to stay
> at their existing school
>
> Correcting all of these immflamatory and
> inaccurate comments is going to be a full time
> job. But someone's just got to do it.
Well Stu is not the only one on the school board and so there are others on the school board including Steve Hunt who say "yes, this will affect risign soph, jr and possilby sr. classes."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 21, 2007 12:59PM
S/N ratio improvement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I asked the "boundary study" email ID
> (boundaries@fcps.edu) a while ago about the
> "grandfathering" of existing students, and
> received a nice reply from Dee Sharrocks,
> Administrative Assistant, Facilities Planning
> Services, saying in part:
>
> "we never pull children out of a school they are
> attending so your will not be moved as a Junior
> or Senior.
Bring your email from Facilities (In multiple copies) to the town hall meetings
-------------------------------------------------------
> I asked the "boundary study" email ID
> (boundaries@fcps.edu) a while ago about the
> "grandfathering" of existing students, and
> received a nice reply from Dee Sharrocks,
> Administrative Assistant, Facilities Planning
> Services, saying in part:
>
> "we never pull children out of a school they are
> attending so your will not be moved as a Junior
> or Senior.
Bring your email from Facilities (In multiple copies) to the town hall meetings
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 03:07PM
Cricket Wrote:
> Steve Hunt who say "yes, this will
> affect risign soph, jr and possilby sr. classes."
So do am I to understand that Steve Hunt wants to transfer the Class of '09, '10 and '11 to a different school in the fall of '08?
Incredulously More Later
> Steve Hunt who say "yes, this will
> affect risign soph, jr and possilby sr. classes."
So do am I to understand that Steve Hunt wants to transfer the Class of '09, '10 and '11 to a different school in the fall of '08?
Incredulously More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 21, 2007 04:13PM
Steve Hunt wants NO redistricting! He wants to improve South Lakes, not simply force students to go there.
I'll ask again, what's the difference between having a good magnet at South Lakes that draws top kids from other schools, and Stu Gibson simply forcing top kids from other schools to go to South Lakes? Does Stu's opposition to a magnet make sense when is argument is that it draws top kids from other schools and thus not fair to the other principals? How does the principal at Herndon feel about Stu taking his top students and making them go to South Lakes?
I'll ask again, what's the difference between having a good magnet at South Lakes that draws top kids from other schools, and Stu Gibson simply forcing top kids from other schools to go to South Lakes? Does Stu's opposition to a magnet make sense when is argument is that it draws top kids from other schools and thus not fair to the other principals? How does the principal at Herndon feel about Stu taking his top students and making them go to South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 21, 2007 04:46PM
Neen,
Not sure what your question is--drawing students based on proximity is not the same as drawing the top 1-5% of the students from all surrounding communties, Magnets add more administrative costs and are not conducive to making a community. So, I'm not sure a magnet would be "improving" South Lakes.
Also, I got the impression at the SL PTA neeting that only ninth graders would go in the first year. According to Maria Allen, since SL is not a new school, it doesn't need to start with more than ninth graders, so there will be grandfathering. I thought Stu concurred with this.
Thomas, is my recollection correct?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2007 05:09PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Not sure what your question is--drawing students based on proximity is not the same as drawing the top 1-5% of the students from all surrounding communties, Magnets add more administrative costs and are not conducive to making a community. So, I'm not sure a magnet would be "improving" South Lakes.
Also, I got the impression at the SL PTA neeting that only ninth graders would go in the first year. According to Maria Allen, since SL is not a new school, it doesn't need to start with more than ninth graders, so there will be grandfathering. I thought Stu concurred with this.
Thomas, is my recollection correct?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2007 05:09PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 21, 2007 05:07PM
I think with the current level of angst in the affected areas a "conducive community environment" will be a long time coming, not just at South Lakes but at all of the schools involved.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 21, 2007 05:57PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
>
> > Steve Hunt who say "yes, this will
> > affect risign soph, jr and possilby sr.
> classes."
>
> So do am I to understand that Steve Hunt wants to
> transfer the Class of '09, '10 and '11 to a
> different school in the fall of '08?
>
> Incredulously More Later
I am not saying this is what he wants. I am saying that he has told people this could happen. But this has been said by a number of people, not just Steve. This should not be so hard to believe, given everything else that is being considered. The principal at Westfield is not making any guarantees that his freshman class of '11 will remain intact. (I guess its wise for a principal to make no guarantees at this point).
The principal at Herndon is leaving.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
>
> > Steve Hunt who say "yes, this will
> > affect risign soph, jr and possilby sr.
> classes."
>
> So do am I to understand that Steve Hunt wants to
> transfer the Class of '09, '10 and '11 to a
> different school in the fall of '08?
>
> Incredulously More Later
I am not saying this is what he wants. I am saying that he has told people this could happen. But this has been said by a number of people, not just Steve. This should not be so hard to believe, given everything else that is being considered. The principal at Westfield is not making any guarantees that his freshman class of '11 will remain intact. (I guess its wise for a principal to make no guarantees at this point).
The principal at Herndon is leaving.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 05:58PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Hunt wants NO redistricting!
So he's intentionally spreading around misinformation which is contary to both School Board regulation and all precedent which conveniently induces panic in students for whom the redistrictng will have no impact. There's a responsible public official. But that's an oxymoron isn't it. We all know what an oxymoron is right: honest lawyer, jumbo shrimp, military intelligence, compassionate conservative.
> He wants to
> improve South Lakes
Could his spokesperson give us the details of how Mr. Hunt proposes to do that since I've never seen Mr. Hunt within two zip codes of South Lakes. Reminds us of Sen./Dr. Bill Fritz diagnosing Teri Schiavo by video tape. Then the autopsy proves the attending physician was right all along - Teri had been brain dead for a decade. Oops there goes the Fritz presidential and the beginning of the end for the Republican control of both houses. Long distance diagnosis is oh so dangerous.
> I'll ask again, what's the difference between
> having a good magnet at South Lakes that draws top
> kids from other schools,
Since Neen has two kids at TJ, it's no surprise she advocates that solution. Not everyone thinks magnet schools in geographically large, wealthy suburbs are a good idea. Many taxpayers resent TJ's existence as a subsidy of already very well off kids whose parent's ought to be paying for private school if they want that kind of specialized instruction.
TJ already suffers from reduced extra-curricular participation because of the distance kids have to travel after their games/activities end at 10:30 p.m., then, after away games, they have to bus back to TJ before being release to their parents for their ride home and then the kids have to get up at 5:30 to get from Great Falls or Clifton back to school the next morning. When do they get dinner, midnight? Result disproportionately lower participation, less school spirit, more kids feeling isolated at TJ. Freshman jv and varisty home game crowds consisting of only those moms and dads who work near by. Visiting crowds out-numbering the TJ crowd at most of home games. Fabulous for school and community spirit.
Furthermore, I know scores of kids who got accepted to TJ from Reston but chose to stay or return to their base school because they didn't like the long commute; placed a higher value of preserving the friendships they developed in grade and middle school; felt isolated and unsupported or found the ultra-competitve atmosphere depressing.
BTW what is the latest cumulative count on suicides, attempted suicides and psycotic breaks among TJ students since it opened?
SL already has an Army JROTC magnet program (in liberal Reston, who'da thunk that!) It also has a magnet MR program that draws almost 150 kids from other schools and results in reduced participation rates in extra-curicular activities participation and lower test scores.
Please describe with some specificity a magnet program that gets 500-700 kids to South Lakes?
> How does the principal at Herndon
> feel about Stu taking his top students and making
> them go to South Lakes?
These kids don't live in Herndon. They live in Reston. Why should Herndon be allowed to continue to strip Reston's "top kids" to prop up Herndon tests scores? Why shouldn't Reston's top kids go to Reston's high school?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Hunt wants NO redistricting!
So he's intentionally spreading around misinformation which is contary to both School Board regulation and all precedent which conveniently induces panic in students for whom the redistrictng will have no impact. There's a responsible public official. But that's an oxymoron isn't it. We all know what an oxymoron is right: honest lawyer, jumbo shrimp, military intelligence, compassionate conservative.
> He wants to
> improve South Lakes
Could his spokesperson give us the details of how Mr. Hunt proposes to do that since I've never seen Mr. Hunt within two zip codes of South Lakes. Reminds us of Sen./Dr. Bill Fritz diagnosing Teri Schiavo by video tape. Then the autopsy proves the attending physician was right all along - Teri had been brain dead for a decade. Oops there goes the Fritz presidential and the beginning of the end for the Republican control of both houses. Long distance diagnosis is oh so dangerous.
> I'll ask again, what's the difference between
> having a good magnet at South Lakes that draws top
> kids from other schools,
Since Neen has two kids at TJ, it's no surprise she advocates that solution. Not everyone thinks magnet schools in geographically large, wealthy suburbs are a good idea. Many taxpayers resent TJ's existence as a subsidy of already very well off kids whose parent's ought to be paying for private school if they want that kind of specialized instruction.
TJ already suffers from reduced extra-curricular participation because of the distance kids have to travel after their games/activities end at 10:30 p.m., then, after away games, they have to bus back to TJ before being release to their parents for their ride home and then the kids have to get up at 5:30 to get from Great Falls or Clifton back to school the next morning. When do they get dinner, midnight? Result disproportionately lower participation, less school spirit, more kids feeling isolated at TJ. Freshman jv and varisty home game crowds consisting of only those moms and dads who work near by. Visiting crowds out-numbering the TJ crowd at most of home games. Fabulous for school and community spirit.
Furthermore, I know scores of kids who got accepted to TJ from Reston but chose to stay or return to their base school because they didn't like the long commute; placed a higher value of preserving the friendships they developed in grade and middle school; felt isolated and unsupported or found the ultra-competitve atmosphere depressing.
BTW what is the latest cumulative count on suicides, attempted suicides and psycotic breaks among TJ students since it opened?
SL already has an Army JROTC magnet program (in liberal Reston, who'da thunk that!) It also has a magnet MR program that draws almost 150 kids from other schools and results in reduced participation rates in extra-curicular activities participation and lower test scores.
Please describe with some specificity a magnet program that gets 500-700 kids to South Lakes?
> How does the principal at Herndon
> feel about Stu taking his top students and making
> them go to South Lakes?
These kids don't live in Herndon. They live in Reston. Why should Herndon be allowed to continue to strip Reston's "top kids" to prop up Herndon tests scores? Why shouldn't Reston's top kids go to Reston's high school?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 06:01PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The principal at Herndon is leaving.
Again! Won't that make it three principals in four years! What's up with that?
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The principal at Herndon is leaving.
Again! Won't that make it three principals in four years! What's up with that?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 06:06PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, is my recollection correct?
I concur and so did Gibson. If you can rely on anything he says.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, is my recollection correct?
I concur and so did Gibson. If you can rely on anything he says.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 21, 2007 06:09PM
Good points, Thomas,
I'm sure Neen, and many others who are so willing to leave SL high and dry, hate it when you turn their arguments around to the other side.
I hope this makes everyone see that all of our high schools deserve to be successful and one should not be sacrificed for another. That doesn;t mean that all of us get exactly what we want, because that is clearly impossible, but we should realize that we are all a part of a larger community and compromises have to be made.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2007 06:11PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I'm sure Neen, and many others who are so willing to leave SL high and dry, hate it when you turn their arguments around to the other side.
I hope this makes everyone see that all of our high schools deserve to be successful and one should not be sacrificed for another. That doesn;t mean that all of us get exactly what we want, because that is clearly impossible, but we should realize that we are all a part of a larger community and compromises have to be made.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2007 06:11PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: October 21, 2007 08:03PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket,
> > What is Steve Hunt's position on Langley?
>
>
> I didn't ask about Langley. My question had to
> deal with why wasn't Centreville included in the
> study since Westfield is supposedly soooooo over
> crowded. Nobody has a good answer for that except
> that Centreville is too crowded. Ok, well
> Chantilly is overcrowded too, but they are
> included in the study..So I asked about that, and
> that is when I got the domino explanation.
> Chantilly kids get sent to Oakton, since some of
> Oakton is going to SL. If we are dominoing---why
> can't we domino some kids from Westfield back into
> Centreville and send some Centreville to Fairfax?
>
>
> Also, McNair and Floris are in Hunter Mill
> District...So with Stu were screwed as McNair has
> been from the get go.
Centreville's overcrowding problems were solved by building a modular building. The school also has several trailer classrooms, but nowhere near as many as Westfield. I cant recall if Westfield has a modular building, but if they did The only place for it would be around back by the soccer field. Westfield needs its boundarys adjsuted. Send some of its kids to herndon or chantilly. Kids from herndon or chantilly can go to South Lakes, Oakton, or Fairfax.
Basically all the HS boundarys need to shift east. A lot of the schools in the eastern part of the county are undercrowded. Give them all teh extra kids from the West.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket,
> > What is Steve Hunt's position on Langley?
>
>
> I didn't ask about Langley. My question had to
> deal with why wasn't Centreville included in the
> study since Westfield is supposedly soooooo over
> crowded. Nobody has a good answer for that except
> that Centreville is too crowded. Ok, well
> Chantilly is overcrowded too, but they are
> included in the study..So I asked about that, and
> that is when I got the domino explanation.
> Chantilly kids get sent to Oakton, since some of
> Oakton is going to SL. If we are dominoing---why
> can't we domino some kids from Westfield back into
> Centreville and send some Centreville to Fairfax?
>
>
> Also, McNair and Floris are in Hunter Mill
> District...So with Stu were screwed as McNair has
> been from the get go.
Centreville's overcrowding problems were solved by building a modular building. The school also has several trailer classrooms, but nowhere near as many as Westfield. I cant recall if Westfield has a modular building, but if they did The only place for it would be around back by the soccer field. Westfield needs its boundarys adjsuted. Send some of its kids to herndon or chantilly. Kids from herndon or chantilly can go to South Lakes, Oakton, or Fairfax.
Basically all the HS boundarys need to shift east. A lot of the schools in the eastern part of the county are undercrowded. Give them all teh extra kids from the West.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 21, 2007 09:07PM
Westfield just finished an edition to the school. The capacity is 3100 (without trailers). As of this Sept 07 they have 3171 students. (It's on the website.) Projections are for the Westfield population to decrease over the next 4 years. (It's on the boundary study doc.)
There seems to be some remorse from the Board on building the edition to Wesfield. Now they like having smaller schools. (The board says the optimum school size is 2000). The taxpayers are left holding the bag.
Honestly I think we were better off without having elected school board officals. The quality of these folks is lacking and it shows.
There seems to be some remorse from the Board on building the edition to Wesfield. Now they like having smaller schools. (The board says the optimum school size is 2000). The taxpayers are left holding the bag.
Honestly I think we were better off without having elected school board officals. The quality of these folks is lacking and it shows.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 21, 2007 09:28PM
Thomas More - my daughter goes to TJ and benefits from the fact that she likely could not be as competitive as she is at the varsity level at another school due to TJ's lesser competitiveness in her sport. I think on balance she is very happy with the result. And I don't think the place lacks school spirit by any means - there is an intense TJ grapevine that it is difficult to intuit on the outside. So just as with SLHS - a place with both positive and negative elements - a balanced look is in order.
Then again, she is a student who truly belongs at TJ. We certainly never pushed to take the TJ test, study for it, or do anything of the sort - and she is doing exceedingly well. I have another daughter with SAT scores well over the TJ mean (yes, that high) who attends a nationally ranked university on an academic scholarship - she could have done well at TJ, but felt more comfortable at Oakton. She would freely admit Oakton was not that much work - but she is stepping up at university, so Oakton at least passably prepared her. So the in the end the problem is with parents who want to live vicariously through their kids and don't look in a focused way at where their child will be most happy.
I must say some of the negative statements you make about TJ have kernels of truth. This is of course why it was so wrongheaded to establish an affirmative action program at TJ - driven by white guilt, of course - but the place, as I say, is only for those that truly belong, both from an academic, intellectual and personality perspective - the kids that like it there really embrace competition - it is the way they are. Given the pressure of the place, it is hardly a environ for yet another social engineering experiment. But make no mistake about it - TJ is an asset to the county - and quite bluntly, given the economic and intellectual contributions that the truly gifted make in our society, the last thing we want to do is chase them to private schools - as Darwinian as it sounds, spending money on the truly gifted is truly a force multiplier in terms of human capital.
In any event, I do have some degree of apprehension about SLHS. Right now, they have 30 IB graduates - with presumably a bandwidth of teacher supply consistent with that number. Oakton had about 130 AP graduates in my daughter's final year. Query whether South Lakes will have the bandwidth to handle the influx of students in terms of a supply of qualified and experienced AP teachers. This is not an idle question - the redistricting will be a reality in my view - the gravitational pull of racial balancing is by and far and away the strongest force in American education right now - and having a supply of competent AP teachers, particularly given the rancor that will surround the redistricting, is absolutely essential.
Then again, she is a student who truly belongs at TJ. We certainly never pushed to take the TJ test, study for it, or do anything of the sort - and she is doing exceedingly well. I have another daughter with SAT scores well over the TJ mean (yes, that high) who attends a nationally ranked university on an academic scholarship - she could have done well at TJ, but felt more comfortable at Oakton. She would freely admit Oakton was not that much work - but she is stepping up at university, so Oakton at least passably prepared her. So the in the end the problem is with parents who want to live vicariously through their kids and don't look in a focused way at where their child will be most happy.
I must say some of the negative statements you make about TJ have kernels of truth. This is of course why it was so wrongheaded to establish an affirmative action program at TJ - driven by white guilt, of course - but the place, as I say, is only for those that truly belong, both from an academic, intellectual and personality perspective - the kids that like it there really embrace competition - it is the way they are. Given the pressure of the place, it is hardly a environ for yet another social engineering experiment. But make no mistake about it - TJ is an asset to the county - and quite bluntly, given the economic and intellectual contributions that the truly gifted make in our society, the last thing we want to do is chase them to private schools - as Darwinian as it sounds, spending money on the truly gifted is truly a force multiplier in terms of human capital.
In any event, I do have some degree of apprehension about SLHS. Right now, they have 30 IB graduates - with presumably a bandwidth of teacher supply consistent with that number. Oakton had about 130 AP graduates in my daughter's final year. Query whether South Lakes will have the bandwidth to handle the influx of students in terms of a supply of qualified and experienced AP teachers. This is not an idle question - the redistricting will be a reality in my view - the gravitational pull of racial balancing is by and far and away the strongest force in American education right now - and having a supply of competent AP teachers, particularly given the rancor that will surround the redistricting, is absolutely essential.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 21, 2007 11:05PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of dialogue I have been yearning for on this blog. If only all of us could aspire to this level of exchange with every post.
> Thomas More - my daughter goes to TJ and benefits
> from the fact that she likely could not be as
> competitive as she is at the varsity level at
> another school due to TJ's lesser competitiveness
> in her sport. I think on balance she is very
> happy with the result.
I am very happy for her and for you. In a jurisdiction of 1 million people with a school district of 165,000 is there 1% of students who benefit for TJ's intensive instruction. Maybe. I didn't call for shutting TJ down.
> And I don't think the
> place lacks school spirit by any means - there is
> an intense TJ grapevine that it is difficult to
> intuit on the outside.
Humans are physical social beings. Physical presence is important. I can't tell you how often SL kids come back to support their schoolmates in their afterschool activities. It just doesn't happen at TJ. SL has played TJ for most of the last ten years. I actually felt bad for the TJ teams for their lack of support for their fellows. I understood how hard it was for the athletes' schoolmates to get back for the game. Too much travel - too much home work.
> So just as with SLHS - a
> place with both positive and negative elements - a
> balanced look is in order.
Agreed. My point is that a magnet program is not a panacia for the under-enrollment problem at SL.
> Then again, she is a student who truly belongs at
> TJ. We certainly never pushed to take the TJ
> test, study for it, or do anything of the sort -
> and she is doing exceedingly well. I have another
> daughter with SAT scores well over the TJ mean
> (yes, that high) who attends a nationally ranked
> university on an academic scholarship - she could
> have done well at TJ, but felt more comfortable at
> Oakton. She would freely admit Oakton was not
> that much work - but she is stepping up at
> university, so Oakton at least passably prepared
> her.
Your Oakton daughter made the right choice for her & still got into a challenging college that brought out the best in her.
So the in the end the problem is with
> parents who want to live vicariously through their
> kids and don't look in a focused way at where
> their child will be most happy.
Amen. Amen. Halleuja. And this is also part of the resistance to transferring some elementary school to SL. Just not enough oreceuved prestige to satisfy the parents.
> I must say some of the negative statements you
> make about TJ have kernels of truth.
Thank you.
> But make no mistake about it - TJ is
> an asset to the county - and quite bluntly, given
> the economic and intellectual contributions that
> the truly gifted make in our society, the last
> thing we want to do is chase them to private
> schools - as Darwinian as it sounds, spending
> money on the truly gifted is truly a force
> multiplier in terms of human capital.
Just like the service academies are not for everyone yet they are definitely are a necessary asset for the country. But this is only true so long as it is for the truly gifted and not another trophy chase for the overwhelming number of Type A parents in this County, which is what to many taxpayers TJ appears to have become.
>
> In any event, I do have some degree of
> apprehension about SLHS. Right now, they have 30
> IB graduates - with presumably a bandwidth of
> teacher supply consistent with that number.
> Oakton had about 130 AP graduates in my daughter's
> final year. Query whether South Lakes will have
> the bandwidth to handle the influx of students in
> terms of a supply of qualified and experienced AP
> teachers. This is not an idle question - the
> redistricting will be a reality in my view - the
> gravitational pull of racial balancing is by and
> far and away the strongest force in American
> education right now
Its more about socio-economic background than race.
>- and having a supply of
> competent AP teachers, particularly given the
> rancor that will surround the redistricting, is
> absolutely essential.
And Raiily chased so many good, veteran teachers away. This went on for more than 5 years. Gibson knew about it and did nothing for too many years which is unforgivable. This problem would exist regardless of boundaries or AP/IB.
As to the samll number of IB diplomas, in order to get the IB diploma a kid has to have at least 5 years of one foreign language, meaning a kid has to take it in 8th grade. (I can understand this for European kids for whom IB was created but English is the language of science and commerce, and not everyone's strengths is foriegn language.) Algebra 1 in the 8th grade is highly recommended. Somehow, parents of 7th graders at Hughes have not been apprised of this, so large numbers of potential IB diploma students get eliminated before they even start SL.
Then there is the limited number of teachering slots available to teach foreign languages and Alegbra I at Hughes. If the only 8th grade spanish teacher at Hughes is a lemon who can't speak English the year your child is at Hughes, your choices are no IB diploma, private tutoring or change to another language in the middle of the school year, if there's even room in that class.
Also because of the consistent euro-centrisim and socialist leaning of the materials, I prefer my kids avoid the IB program.
Then there is the problem of the scoring of the IB exams after senior year not coming back for Zurich or whereever in Switzerland until after your kid has registered for freshman college classes. Thus, making it impossible to avoiding the "intro to whatever" level class that is the very purpose of ADVANCED PLACEMENT class in the first place.
Finally teachers who have tought both AP and IB tell me that IB is less challenging than AP but requires more homework (makework).
Net, net, lots of work, lots of stress for limited pay-off at a limited number of colleges. Thus, 80-90% of SL students make the economically rational decision, it ain't worth it. Most of these 80-90%, just like your Oakton daughter, are still getting into the most selective colleges.
Sl should never have dropped AP and gone to IB. Another Railly gift.
More cordially later.
-------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of dialogue I have been yearning for on this blog. If only all of us could aspire to this level of exchange with every post.
> Thomas More - my daughter goes to TJ and benefits
> from the fact that she likely could not be as
> competitive as she is at the varsity level at
> another school due to TJ's lesser competitiveness
> in her sport. I think on balance she is very
> happy with the result.
I am very happy for her and for you. In a jurisdiction of 1 million people with a school district of 165,000 is there 1% of students who benefit for TJ's intensive instruction. Maybe. I didn't call for shutting TJ down.
> And I don't think the
> place lacks school spirit by any means - there is
> an intense TJ grapevine that it is difficult to
> intuit on the outside.
Humans are physical social beings. Physical presence is important. I can't tell you how often SL kids come back to support their schoolmates in their afterschool activities. It just doesn't happen at TJ. SL has played TJ for most of the last ten years. I actually felt bad for the TJ teams for their lack of support for their fellows. I understood how hard it was for the athletes' schoolmates to get back for the game. Too much travel - too much home work.
> So just as with SLHS - a
> place with both positive and negative elements - a
> balanced look is in order.
Agreed. My point is that a magnet program is not a panacia for the under-enrollment problem at SL.
> Then again, she is a student who truly belongs at
> TJ. We certainly never pushed to take the TJ
> test, study for it, or do anything of the sort -
> and she is doing exceedingly well. I have another
> daughter with SAT scores well over the TJ mean
> (yes, that high) who attends a nationally ranked
> university on an academic scholarship - she could
> have done well at TJ, but felt more comfortable at
> Oakton. She would freely admit Oakton was not
> that much work - but she is stepping up at
> university, so Oakton at least passably prepared
> her.
Your Oakton daughter made the right choice for her & still got into a challenging college that brought out the best in her.
So the in the end the problem is with
> parents who want to live vicariously through their
> kids and don't look in a focused way at where
> their child will be most happy.
Amen. Amen. Halleuja. And this is also part of the resistance to transferring some elementary school to SL. Just not enough oreceuved prestige to satisfy the parents.
> I must say some of the negative statements you
> make about TJ have kernels of truth.
Thank you.
> But make no mistake about it - TJ is
> an asset to the county - and quite bluntly, given
> the economic and intellectual contributions that
> the truly gifted make in our society, the last
> thing we want to do is chase them to private
> schools - as Darwinian as it sounds, spending
> money on the truly gifted is truly a force
> multiplier in terms of human capital.
Just like the service academies are not for everyone yet they are definitely are a necessary asset for the country. But this is only true so long as it is for the truly gifted and not another trophy chase for the overwhelming number of Type A parents in this County, which is what to many taxpayers TJ appears to have become.
>
> In any event, I do have some degree of
> apprehension about SLHS. Right now, they have 30
> IB graduates - with presumably a bandwidth of
> teacher supply consistent with that number.
> Oakton had about 130 AP graduates in my daughter's
> final year. Query whether South Lakes will have
> the bandwidth to handle the influx of students in
> terms of a supply of qualified and experienced AP
> teachers. This is not an idle question - the
> redistricting will be a reality in my view - the
> gravitational pull of racial balancing is by and
> far and away the strongest force in American
> education right now
Its more about socio-economic background than race.
>- and having a supply of
> competent AP teachers, particularly given the
> rancor that will surround the redistricting, is
> absolutely essential.
And Raiily chased so many good, veteran teachers away. This went on for more than 5 years. Gibson knew about it and did nothing for too many years which is unforgivable. This problem would exist regardless of boundaries or AP/IB.
As to the samll number of IB diplomas, in order to get the IB diploma a kid has to have at least 5 years of one foreign language, meaning a kid has to take it in 8th grade. (I can understand this for European kids for whom IB was created but English is the language of science and commerce, and not everyone's strengths is foriegn language.) Algebra 1 in the 8th grade is highly recommended. Somehow, parents of 7th graders at Hughes have not been apprised of this, so large numbers of potential IB diploma students get eliminated before they even start SL.
Then there is the limited number of teachering slots available to teach foreign languages and Alegbra I at Hughes. If the only 8th grade spanish teacher at Hughes is a lemon who can't speak English the year your child is at Hughes, your choices are no IB diploma, private tutoring or change to another language in the middle of the school year, if there's even room in that class.
Also because of the consistent euro-centrisim and socialist leaning of the materials, I prefer my kids avoid the IB program.
Then there is the problem of the scoring of the IB exams after senior year not coming back for Zurich or whereever in Switzerland until after your kid has registered for freshman college classes. Thus, making it impossible to avoiding the "intro to whatever" level class that is the very purpose of ADVANCED PLACEMENT class in the first place.
Finally teachers who have tought both AP and IB tell me that IB is less challenging than AP but requires more homework (makework).
Net, net, lots of work, lots of stress for limited pay-off at a limited number of colleges. Thus, 80-90% of SL students make the economically rational decision, it ain't worth it. Most of these 80-90%, just like your Oakton daughter, are still getting into the most selective colleges.
Sl should never have dropped AP and gone to IB. Another Railly gift.
More cordially later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas The Moron
()
Date: October 21, 2007 11:32PM
TM - very wordy
= by word
= by word
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 22, 2007 12:39AM
>>>Stu claims that School Board regs preclude adding Forestville to the study.<<<
How silly. How did Langley get the regulation to read that none of their schools can be part of the redistricting? I bet Oakton and Madison wish they had that deal too! haha
School board can change the regs since they made the regs. They can start the boundary process all over. They can do anything they want since they're in charge. Aren't they?
How silly. How did Langley get the regulation to read that none of their schools can be part of the redistricting? I bet Oakton and Madison wish they had that deal too! haha
School board can change the regs since they made the regs. They can start the boundary process all over. They can do anything they want since they're in charge. Aren't they?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 01:05AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Stu claims that School Board regs preclude
> adding Forestville to the study.<<<
>
> How silly. How did Langley get the regulation to
> read that none of their schools can be part of the
> redistricting? I bet Oakton and Madison wish they
> had that deal too! haha
>
> School board can change the regs since they made
> the regs. They can start the boundary process all
> over. They can do anything they want since
> they're in charge. Aren't they?
LET ALL OF THE CONGREGATION SAY AMEN!!
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Stu claims that School Board regs preclude
> adding Forestville to the study.<<<
>
> How silly. How did Langley get the regulation to
> read that none of their schools can be part of the
> redistricting? I bet Oakton and Madison wish they
> had that deal too! haha
>
> School board can change the regs since they made
> the regs. They can start the boundary process all
> over. They can do anything they want since
> they're in charge. Aren't they?
LET ALL OF THE CONGREGATION SAY AMEN!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 22, 2007 01:10AM
Thomas, it was Stu Gibson who brought IB to South Lakes. Ask him. He LOVES the IB program. Truly. He thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Madison avoided it because parents (including his campaign manager) told him that he dare NOT put IB in Madison. Parents at Madison were noisy and they did not want IB.
I wouldn't want to turn all of SL into a magnet but what about a school within a school, like Montgomery Blair's very successful programs? Those programs have no problem attracting top students. Isn't that Stu's goal? To get more top students into South Lakes? Or are the rumors true that McNair will go to South Lakes and Aldrin and Armstrong won't because that would hurt Herndon high too much? Rumors, but they do make some sense. The only way Aldrin and Armstrong will leave Herndon is if Janie Straus has agreed. It appears that she has agreed. But who knows?
Isn't it interesting that the rich parts of the county got to decide if they wanted IB or not but the less affluent schools didn't have that choice. They had IB thrust upon them. Too bad those parents didn't have a choice.
In my ten years of association with TJ, I've never known of any student to attempt suicide. I can honestly say that I've never heard of it happening. Perhaps it has, but I would think that the word would have leaked out. (I did hear about a suicide attempt by a GT student at Madison, 3 or 4 years ago.) The kids I've known at TJ have loved the place. Like most people, they love being with their peers, doing something challenging and worthwhile. For most students at TJ the work load is certainly not excessive. They love the courses that are available to them. I wish every student in this county had a similar, appropriate, education. Sadly, too many do not have available to them what is needed and appropriate to their level.
I wouldn't want to turn all of SL into a magnet but what about a school within a school, like Montgomery Blair's very successful programs? Those programs have no problem attracting top students. Isn't that Stu's goal? To get more top students into South Lakes? Or are the rumors true that McNair will go to South Lakes and Aldrin and Armstrong won't because that would hurt Herndon high too much? Rumors, but they do make some sense. The only way Aldrin and Armstrong will leave Herndon is if Janie Straus has agreed. It appears that she has agreed. But who knows?
Isn't it interesting that the rich parts of the county got to decide if they wanted IB or not but the less affluent schools didn't have that choice. They had IB thrust upon them. Too bad those parents didn't have a choice.
In my ten years of association with TJ, I've never known of any student to attempt suicide. I can honestly say that I've never heard of it happening. Perhaps it has, but I would think that the word would have leaked out. (I did hear about a suicide attempt by a GT student at Madison, 3 or 4 years ago.) The kids I've known at TJ have loved the place. Like most people, they love being with their peers, doing something challenging and worthwhile. For most students at TJ the work load is certainly not excessive. They love the courses that are available to them. I wish every student in this county had a similar, appropriate, education. Sadly, too many do not have available to them what is needed and appropriate to their level.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
blaze
()
Date: October 22, 2007 07:22AM
KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Kids from
> herndon or chantilly can go to South Lakes,
> Oakton, or Fairfax.
>
> Basically all the HS boundarys need to shift east.
> A lot of the schools in the eastern part of the
> county are undercrowded. Give them all teh extra
> kids from the West.
FYI.... my kids are not "extra" kids. It's their high school. Our neighborhood has been part of Chantilly HS for 22 years. The attitude of "just move them all" is exactly what the school board is hoping for.
-------------------------------------------------------
Kids from
> herndon or chantilly can go to South Lakes,
> Oakton, or Fairfax.
>
> Basically all the HS boundarys need to shift east.
> A lot of the schools in the eastern part of the
> county are undercrowded. Give them all teh extra
> kids from the West.
FYI.... my kids are not "extra" kids. It's their high school. Our neighborhood has been part of Chantilly HS for 22 years. The attitude of "just move them all" is exactly what the school board is hoping for.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 08:36AM
I've heard different things about IB than what Thomas said. One is that it is more challenging than AP, not less. It requires more critical thinking and writing skills than AP. Colleges think it is as good or better than AP (this from a parent who talked to a lot of college admissions people).
I really haven't heard any negatives from SL parents with kids in the IB program. They tend to think it prepares their kids for college very well and their kids are happy. All that said, I would prefer AP at SL too, but I probably wouldn't stress about it too much if it wasn't.
If McNair went to SL, I think that would throw off the whole "socioeconomic balance" boundary study criteria and not be good for SL. Westfield is able to absorb McNair well--its socioeconomic balance is fine, so it should stay there.
I really haven't heard any negatives from SL parents with kids in the IB program. They tend to think it prepares their kids for college very well and their kids are happy. All that said, I would prefer AP at SL too, but I probably wouldn't stress about it too much if it wasn't.
If McNair went to SL, I think that would throw off the whole "socioeconomic balance" boundary study criteria and not be good for SL. Westfield is able to absorb McNair well--its socioeconomic balance is fine, so it should stay there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HunterMillVoter
()
Date: October 22, 2007 08:41AM
Stu,
Say goodbye now! We are busy canvassing your district and will show up to vote you out of office
Attachments:
Say goodbye now! We are busy canvassing your district and will show up to vote you out of office
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 22, 2007 08:55AM
Toodle Loo, Mr. Stu!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 09:11AM
Does anyone know how many potential voters there are in Hunter Mill District and number of anticipated voters there will be this year? I'm sure the number will be bigger than past elections.
Don't know how to find this information.
Don't know how to find this information.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 22, 2007 09:35AM
I'm sick of Stu's mantra about federal and state funding. All are taxes out of my pocket and every state allocates funds based on an LEA 's ability to pay via a formula [school division or district]. Based on the size of FCPS and the remote or less local level of involvement there are mega amounts of money spent here on things like bussing/programs/facilities that would never get by voters in smaller LEA's.
It takes an incredible amount of time to fish out were the money goes. A lot of stuff on bond referendums would never get through if people knew the scope of the jobs or intentions of the projects. Here, you actually have to go to work sessions to even know what is going on. ie Modified Calendar - the kids actually get far less manadtory instruction time before SOL's between Labor Day and test dates. One reason that went in was high January absenteeism from Latinos - that month is their July so they vacation.
IB went in because Mount Vernon was a poorly run school in all respects - the admins even had or allowed a Wall of Shame where they put up photos of kids who dropped out or were MIA or expelled like a thing in a police station. IB is hugely expensive - a comparable AP course for single student might cost 75 while IB could be as high as 500. The program budget does not accurately reflect the expense.
I pay local/federal/state taxes so he should really look into where FCPS has spent it's local dollars: modified calendar, rebuilds instead of renovations, additions at the wrong buildings, bussing, foreign language immersion, IB instead of AP, duplicating costs on curriculum developement [paying staff then buying packages like IB and on a far lesser degree Core Knowledge], sped for some LD when they were really curriculum impaired, replacing new gym floors 3 years after installation, ripping out perfectly good libraries and moving them in renovations, making South Lakes cafeteria into 1 v 2 dining areas, elementary focus/magnet school money, building v boundary changes, Young Scholars [ no solid program definition or accountability], middle school GT centers, pump and haul for septic overload at Forestville, etc.
It takes an incredible amount of time to fish out were the money goes. A lot of stuff on bond referendums would never get through if people knew the scope of the jobs or intentions of the projects. Here, you actually have to go to work sessions to even know what is going on. ie Modified Calendar - the kids actually get far less manadtory instruction time before SOL's between Labor Day and test dates. One reason that went in was high January absenteeism from Latinos - that month is their July so they vacation.
IB went in because Mount Vernon was a poorly run school in all respects - the admins even had or allowed a Wall of Shame where they put up photos of kids who dropped out or were MIA or expelled like a thing in a police station. IB is hugely expensive - a comparable AP course for single student might cost 75 while IB could be as high as 500. The program budget does not accurately reflect the expense.
I pay local/federal/state taxes so he should really look into where FCPS has spent it's local dollars: modified calendar, rebuilds instead of renovations, additions at the wrong buildings, bussing, foreign language immersion, IB instead of AP, duplicating costs on curriculum developement [paying staff then buying packages like IB and on a far lesser degree Core Knowledge], sped for some LD when they were really curriculum impaired, replacing new gym floors 3 years after installation, ripping out perfectly good libraries and moving them in renovations, making South Lakes cafeteria into 1 v 2 dining areas, elementary focus/magnet school money, building v boundary changes, Young Scholars [ no solid program definition or accountability], middle school GT centers, pump and haul for septic overload at Forestville, etc.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 09:50AM
Taxpayer--just curious--why is IB so much more expensive than AP?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 22, 2007 10:08AM
AP courses are college level courses, such as AP Calculus. At the end of the year, you take the AP exam and if you score high enough you get college credit for taking the class. You can just take one AP course or you can take many. Prior to taking AP courses, students usually take "honors" classes and are also usually a year ahead of the non-AP students.
To get college credit for IB you must complete the entire IB program and score high enough on the IB exam. You cannot get college credit for just one subject like IB English. It's all or none.
To get college credit for IB you must complete the entire IB program and score high enough on the IB exam. You cannot get college credit for just one subject like IB English. It's all or none.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 10:32AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Colleges
> think it is as good or better than AP (this from a
> parent who talked to a lot of college admissions
> people).
Less than 100 colleges out of 1400 in the US give advance placement credit for IB courses. Check the IB website.
> Westfield is
> able to absorb McNair well--its socioeconomic
> balance is fine, so it should stay there.
McNair is the elementary school furthest from Westfield, thus the one most likely to be shifted to either Herndon or SL. Sending it to either makes the socio-economic balance at either worse.
Fun. fun, fun.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Colleges
> think it is as good or better than AP (this from a
> parent who talked to a lot of college admissions
> people).
Less than 100 colleges out of 1400 in the US give advance placement credit for IB courses. Check the IB website.
> Westfield is
> able to absorb McNair well--its socioeconomic
> balance is fine, so it should stay there.
McNair is the elementary school furthest from Westfield, thus the one most likely to be shifted to either Herndon or SL. Sending it to either makes the socio-economic balance at either worse.
Fun. fun, fun.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:09AM
Well, what can we do to get AP really on the table? I read the notes from Crossfield PTA meeting with Stu from last spring, and he said that any AP discussion would have to involve South Lakes parents. I think SL parents would be open to it, so where is the follow up?
Would having AP at South Lakes make more parents from potential schools more willing to go there?
Arakelian would be willing to discuss AP at SL, unlike Stu so far.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2007 11:12AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Would having AP at South Lakes make more parents from potential schools more willing to go there?
Arakelian would be willing to discuss AP at SL, unlike Stu so far.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2007 11:12AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:24AM
McNair is not the closest school to South Lakes--it's much further than most of the other elementary schools under consideration.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:33AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't want to turn all of SL into a magnet
> but what about a school within a school, like
> Montgomery Blair's very successful programs?
> Those programs have no problem attracting top
> students.
First question, a magnet to teach what?
Second issue, a divided school, segregated by socio-economic background and divided community affiliation is not an attractive prospect.
Third, a magnet chool within a school is not likely to address low participation numbers since the magnet part of the school will likely have the same participation problems that TJ has. Even though SL is classified as a AAA school, it has an effective population (i.e., enrollment -MR magnet program participants) less than eight schools in AA. A magnet program of 500-700 kids won't address this and Paul Jensen, DSA for the entire County, refuses to move SL or any other school to AA even though George Mason, the high school of the city of Falls Church is AA now and would be a natural rival for SL and TJ. The rest of the AA schools would entail significant travel.
> Isn't that Stu's goal? To get more top
> students into South Lakes?
If you can believe him, his first goal is to increase enrollment numbers. His second goal is to achieve the first without making the socio-economic disparity of SL worse than it is now.
> Or are the rumors true
> that McNair will go to South Lakes and Aldrin and
> Armstrong won't because that would hurt Herndon
> high too much? Rumors, but they do make some
> sense. The only way Aldrin and Armstrong will
> leave Herndon is if Janie Straus has agreed. It
> appears that she has agreed. But who knows?
Because of Stu's alleged second goal I see his preference is not to have McNair at SL but he could fold to central staff and fellow school board memeber pressure just to get it over with. This is not a man of strong convictions.
Having already acknowledged that I am sick enough to actually watch school board meetings, can anyone tell us where Janie has been. She's missed a fair number of meetings. Is she even actively participating in this boundary issue?
> In my ten years of association with TJ, I've never
> known of any student to attempt suicide. I can
> honestly say that I've never heard of it
> happening.
How many parents at Oakton and Langley know about the drug problems at those schools? What gets out is only what the bureaucracy wants you to know and that never includes the bad news. If you make inquiries you'll here all about privacy of medical records, etc that prevents the school from disclosing that information. But they know, and they are worried.
> Sadly, too many do not have available
> to them what is needed and appropriate to their
> level.
True for the vast majority of kids. Any system with 165,000 students is going to ignore most of the participants and deal only with the outliers of every catgory.
BTW isn't this kind of exchange much more fun.
Hopefully More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't want to turn all of SL into a magnet
> but what about a school within a school, like
> Montgomery Blair's very successful programs?
> Those programs have no problem attracting top
> students.
First question, a magnet to teach what?
Second issue, a divided school, segregated by socio-economic background and divided community affiliation is not an attractive prospect.
Third, a magnet chool within a school is not likely to address low participation numbers since the magnet part of the school will likely have the same participation problems that TJ has. Even though SL is classified as a AAA school, it has an effective population (i.e., enrollment -MR magnet program participants) less than eight schools in AA. A magnet program of 500-700 kids won't address this and Paul Jensen, DSA for the entire County, refuses to move SL or any other school to AA even though George Mason, the high school of the city of Falls Church is AA now and would be a natural rival for SL and TJ. The rest of the AA schools would entail significant travel.
> Isn't that Stu's goal? To get more top
> students into South Lakes?
If you can believe him, his first goal is to increase enrollment numbers. His second goal is to achieve the first without making the socio-economic disparity of SL worse than it is now.
> Or are the rumors true
> that McNair will go to South Lakes and Aldrin and
> Armstrong won't because that would hurt Herndon
> high too much? Rumors, but they do make some
> sense. The only way Aldrin and Armstrong will
> leave Herndon is if Janie Straus has agreed. It
> appears that she has agreed. But who knows?
Because of Stu's alleged second goal I see his preference is not to have McNair at SL but he could fold to central staff and fellow school board memeber pressure just to get it over with. This is not a man of strong convictions.
Having already acknowledged that I am sick enough to actually watch school board meetings, can anyone tell us where Janie has been. She's missed a fair number of meetings. Is she even actively participating in this boundary issue?
> In my ten years of association with TJ, I've never
> known of any student to attempt suicide. I can
> honestly say that I've never heard of it
> happening.
How many parents at Oakton and Langley know about the drug problems at those schools? What gets out is only what the bureaucracy wants you to know and that never includes the bad news. If you make inquiries you'll here all about privacy of medical records, etc that prevents the school from disclosing that information. But they know, and they are worried.
> Sadly, too many do not have available
> to them what is needed and appropriate to their
> level.
True for the vast majority of kids. Any system with 165,000 students is going to ignore most of the participants and deal only with the outliers of every catgory.
BTW isn't this kind of exchange much more fun.
Hopefully More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:38AM
capys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To get college credit for IB you must complete the
> entire IB program and score high enough on the IB
> exam. You cannot get college credit for just one
> subject like IB English. It's all or none.
Not true. If you took the IB English test and scored well, you would get college credit regardless of whether you had taken any other IB classes. Same with math, science, music, art, history, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------
> To get college credit for IB you must complete the
> entire IB program and score high enough on the IB
> exam. You cannot get college credit for just one
> subject like IB English. It's all or none.
Not true. If you took the IB English test and scored well, you would get college credit regardless of whether you had taken any other IB classes. Same with math, science, music, art, history, etc.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:45AM
That is the difference between being an IB Certificate student and an IB Diploma student. IB certificate students take the IB classes as upper level courses but are not involved in the entire program (no service hours, no extended essay, etc.) IB Diploma candidates have committed to the entire program. There are more than 30 kids taking higher level IB courses at SL, hundreds i assume, Only 30 (in a class, not the entire school) will have committed to be a diploma candidate and this number has gone up significantly every year.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:46AM
Thomas,
What do you think of Stu's contention that central staff has no vested interest in pushing one plan over another--they are simply data automatons that have no biases and no office politics?
This doesn't seem credible.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2007 11:52AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
What do you think of Stu's contention that central staff has no vested interest in pushing one plan over another--they are simply data automatons that have no biases and no office politics?
This doesn't seem credible.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2007 11:52AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:48AM
slgrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> capys Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > To get college credit for IB you must complete
> the
> > entire IB program and score high enough on the
> IB
> > exam. You cannot get college credit for just
> one
> > subject like IB English. It's all or none.
>
> Not true. If you took the IB English test and
> scored well, you would get college credit
> regardless of whether you had taken any other IB
> classes. Same with math, science, music, art,
> history, etc.
Yes, you are allowed to take only the IB test(s) you chose. You won't get the IB diploma but an advance diploma from FFX schools. (Big deal!) But if the score doesn't come back from Zurich until after you've registered for freshman college classes, which is exactly what's been happening lately, you don't get any advanced placement. So what good has IB done you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> capys Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > To get college credit for IB you must complete
> the
> > entire IB program and score high enough on the
> IB
> > exam. You cannot get college credit for just
> one
> > subject like IB English. It's all or none.
>
> Not true. If you took the IB English test and
> scored well, you would get college credit
> regardless of whether you had taken any other IB
> classes. Same with math, science, music, art,
> history, etc.
Yes, you are allowed to take only the IB test(s) you chose. You won't get the IB diploma but an advance diploma from FFX schools. (Big deal!) But if the score doesn't come back from Zurich until after you've registered for freshman college classes, which is exactly what's been happening lately, you don't get any advanced placement. So what good has IB done you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:54AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What do you think of Stu's contention that central
> staff has no vested interest in pushing one plan
> over another--they are simply data automatons that
> have no biases?
>
> This doesn't seem credible.
In the central staffs warped mind, the rest of us exist to pay them way too much money, to call them "Doctor", to cause the central staff as little inconvenience as possible, and otherwise to be ignored . The central staff is workinig these issues full time. The School Board members are part timers with day jobs. Central staff runs the show, it's the school board members who are the automatons.
That's true for most governments organizations of this size not just FFX.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What do you think of Stu's contention that central
> staff has no vested interest in pushing one plan
> over another--they are simply data automatons that
> have no biases?
>
> This doesn't seem credible.
In the central staffs warped mind, the rest of us exist to pay them way too much money, to call them "Doctor", to cause the central staff as little inconvenience as possible, and otherwise to be ignored . The central staff is workinig these issues full time. The School Board members are part timers with day jobs. Central staff runs the show, it's the school board members who are the automatons.
That's true for most governments organizations of this size not just FFX.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 22, 2007 12:12PM
> But if the score doesn't come back from Zurich
> until after you've registered for freshman college
> classes, which is exactly what's been happening
> lately, you don't get any advanced placement. So
> what good has IB done you.
you got into a good college and are prepared for the work. if you dont want to take those classes over then dont sign up for them first semester and by second semester your scores will be in. there are very few colleges that actually require you to take those core classes first semester of freshman year. they may advise that you do so and make it appear that it is mandatory but it rarely is.
> until after you've registered for freshman college
> classes, which is exactly what's been happening
> lately, you don't get any advanced placement. So
> what good has IB done you.
you got into a good college and are prepared for the work. if you dont want to take those classes over then dont sign up for them first semester and by second semester your scores will be in. there are very few colleges that actually require you to take those core classes first semester of freshman year. they may advise that you do so and make it appear that it is mandatory but it rarely is.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 22, 2007 12:21PM
read and weep about what FCPS is spending money on for Langley...Strauss is most likely hiding from Gibson's constituents who go to Herndon/South Lakes/Madison since she's getting her addition built despite people from all over this county paying for something that should come out of non-public money -- illegal dumping done at Langley with approval by the administration and athletic director. Those yoohoos are there in the summers - it's preparation for football season!!!!. Before the quote from the illegal dumping article here's a link to the lack of proper plumbing at many schools:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=63841&paper=65&cat=112
Many School Bathrooms Lack Hot Water
More than 20,000 students are taught in school buildings with no hot or warm water in the bathrooms.
By Brian McNeill/The Connection
June 28, 2006
Hot or Not?
In the ceramic-tiled bathrooms at Marshall High School near Tysons Corner, the chrome faucets pour out a steady flow of icy water. Those students wishing to wash their hands with warm or hot water are out of luck.
Marshall is one of 32 aging Fairfax County schools that lack warm or hot water in all or most of the student bathrooms, according to Fairfax County Public School records.
Approximately 27,000 students are taught in the schools, comprising nearly 17 percent of the school system's total 163,500 student population. The school buildings, typically built in the 1960s or earlier, are located across Fairfax County in communities like Oakton, Great Falls, Falls Church, Annandale, Mount Vernon, Reston and Vienna...
===========================================================
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=80604&paper=68&cat=104
Illegal Dumping Frustrates Neighbors
Neighbors of Langley High School frustrated by lack of action on illegal dumping that occurred on school grounds last summer.
By Aranya Tomseth
August 8, 2007
When the father of a student approached the Langley High School athletic director in 2006 and offered to dump the dirt leftover from his latest construction project in the area just beyond the school’s new athletic field, it seemed like a win-win situation. Langley needed some extra batting cages, and the construction company owner needed to get rid of his extra dirt. But what initially appeared to be a mutually beneficial arrangement developed into a financial nightmare for the school.
“They cooked up a deal and they started rolling truckloads of dirt in and dumping it down, and they extended it clear out to the RPA [Resource Protection Area] down near the stream,” ... “Several people blew the whistle on that … they hadn’t gotten any permits from the county to do this, and the county came down on them very hard ...did not realize that the fill dirt was creating a steep slope next to Turkey Run stream until the following winter.
“There were about 200 dump trucks coming in and dumping the trash of developers, but it wasn’t really visible until the leaves were off the trees,”
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=63841&paper=65&cat=112
Many School Bathrooms Lack Hot Water
More than 20,000 students are taught in school buildings with no hot or warm water in the bathrooms.
By Brian McNeill/The Connection
June 28, 2006
Hot or Not?
In the ceramic-tiled bathrooms at Marshall High School near Tysons Corner, the chrome faucets pour out a steady flow of icy water. Those students wishing to wash their hands with warm or hot water are out of luck.
Marshall is one of 32 aging Fairfax County schools that lack warm or hot water in all or most of the student bathrooms, according to Fairfax County Public School records.
Approximately 27,000 students are taught in the schools, comprising nearly 17 percent of the school system's total 163,500 student population. The school buildings, typically built in the 1960s or earlier, are located across Fairfax County in communities like Oakton, Great Falls, Falls Church, Annandale, Mount Vernon, Reston and Vienna...
===========================================================
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=80604&paper=68&cat=104
Illegal Dumping Frustrates Neighbors
Neighbors of Langley High School frustrated by lack of action on illegal dumping that occurred on school grounds last summer.
By Aranya Tomseth
August 8, 2007
When the father of a student approached the Langley High School athletic director in 2006 and offered to dump the dirt leftover from his latest construction project in the area just beyond the school’s new athletic field, it seemed like a win-win situation. Langley needed some extra batting cages, and the construction company owner needed to get rid of his extra dirt. But what initially appeared to be a mutually beneficial arrangement developed into a financial nightmare for the school.
“They cooked up a deal and they started rolling truckloads of dirt in and dumping it down, and they extended it clear out to the RPA [Resource Protection Area] down near the stream,” ... “Several people blew the whistle on that … they hadn’t gotten any permits from the county to do this, and the county came down on them very hard ...did not realize that the fill dirt was creating a steep slope next to Turkey Run stream until the following winter.
“There were about 200 dump trucks coming in and dumping the trash of developers, but it wasn’t really visible until the leaves were off the trees,”
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dirty Harry
()
Date: October 22, 2007 01:15PM
The sense of entitlement of those about to be relocated to SLHS is amazing. Do you people read your own posts. Who the hell do you think you are?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 01:35PM
slgrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you got into a good college and are prepared for
> the work.
The non-IB cirriculum does the same thing without all the homework.
> if you dont want to take those classes
> over then dont sign up for them first semester and
> by second semester your scores will be in. there
> are very few colleges that actually require you to
> take those core classes first semester of freshman
> year. they may advise that you do so and make it
> appear that it is mandatory but it rarely is.
Most schools will require freshman english freshman year without the AP/IB test result but, more importantly, you can't enroll in any upper level course until the IB result comes in. So you're wasting credits on basketweaving and Mom and Dad are wasting tuition money.
-------------------------------------------------------
> you got into a good college and are prepared for
> the work.
The non-IB cirriculum does the same thing without all the homework.
> if you dont want to take those classes
> over then dont sign up for them first semester and
> by second semester your scores will be in. there
> are very few colleges that actually require you to
> take those core classes first semester of freshman
> year. they may advise that you do so and make it
> appear that it is mandatory but it rarely is.
Most schools will require freshman english freshman year without the AP/IB test result but, more importantly, you can't enroll in any upper level course until the IB result comes in. So you're wasting credits on basketweaving and Mom and Dad are wasting tuition money.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 22, 2007 01:52PM
I will argue that the IB program better prepares students for college. Just from personal experience and seeing the differences in the classroom between kids who did the two programs.
Colleges require so many classes these days that you are absolutely capable of finding courses to take that have no prerequisite and are completely worth the money to take. Its your own fault if you cant find them and use the lack of test scores as an excuse.
Colleges require so many classes these days that you are absolutely capable of finding courses to take that have no prerequisite and are completely worth the money to take. Its your own fault if you cant find them and use the lack of test scores as an excuse.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 22, 2007 02:26PM
Thomas More - let's be clear - yes, viewed in a myopic and abstract way, SLHS' problems are more about socio-economic problems than race. But the blunt truth is that the correlations between the problems - truancy, increased incidents of violence, a considerable achievement gap, degradation of a culture of learning - are so highly associated with race that school systems throughout the country adopt the opposite view of what you suggest. They act, and conduct themselves as if race is the relevant marker - which, given the statistical associations - makes a significant degree of sense - because elementary and middle school students are not going to have the kind of curriculum vitae or background information to support individual student assessments (such as with university admissions). So while you can assert in the abstract that the problems revolve around socio-economic factors, that is not the way school administrators conduct themselves - they desperately desire to achieve racial balance - because time and time again it works for them in keeping any one particular school from reaching a critical mass of implosion. If you ever doubt this notion, look at the billions (yes billions, not just hundreds of millions) spent in the Kansas City Missouri schools - under a federal judge's order - under the guise that if the billions were spent white students would attend the schools. They never did - because of the quality of students and the achievement gap never improved - one can ascribe this to some degree of racism - with likely a degree of truth - but at the same time, caring parents (including the caring black parents who were the plaintiffs in Brown v. Board of Education) simply don't like to send their children to schools with bad students - and no amount of money will persuade them otherwise. This is not to say that SLHS is rife with bad students, or that one cannot obtain an education there, but to be fair it does represent a different risk profile for those currently attending Oakton, Madison, etc.
To be fair in any analysis - SLHS, even if left to its own devices and boundaries would not implode to anywhere near the level of, let's say, the public high schools in DC. Those kinds of schools have even more complex problems, made worse by the fact that the school systems in those jurisdictions are often the employers of last resort for many in the community, and the quality of teachers and administrators (particularly administrators - whose ranks are filled with those that didn't succeed in teaching) is often poor, with no realistic means politically to fire them. And the socio-economic factors are even worse. But without racial balancing at SLHS there is a whiff of implosion in the air, and that is more than enough for those in charge of the school system to act proactively. As I said, I don't blame them.
Why do I make these points? What better time to make them than with the Parents United decision? It points to the fact that Brown, a seminal decision that should have marked the end, rather than the perpetuation of the achievement gap, is misunderstood, and it points to the fact that significant cultural factors - rarely talked about - contribute to the problem today every bit as much as racism.
The defendants in the Parents United case defended an extraordinary case - making it to the Supreme Court - maintaining that their schools needed to discriminate based on race so that they could eliminate the effects of discrimination based on race - when what they really meant was that if we don't discriminate based on race some of our schools will turn really bad and that would be a loss for the whole system. Too bad these schools couldn't be more direct and honest - political correctness kept them from doing so - but it predictably - with a conservative Supreme Court - led to a loss in the case. The FCPS could learn a lesson here - they won't - but if you ask people to make changes - be up front and tell them why, and ask them point blank to participate (and sacrifice if that is the word) for the good of the entire community.
And to the poster who claimed that those against transferring have a sense of entitlement - I would argue that of course they do - they by and large are paying at least 5/6 thousand a year in property taxes - and it is not unrealistic to expect a high quality, student focused education in return. Now, this does not mean that automatically SLHS cannot provide a good education - but it does mean that these same taxpayers are entitled to open and honest explanations. Let's be up front about the need to maintain racial balance - and be equally up front as to how the school plans to teach a different population with different skill sets - the kids transferring to SLHS need experienced, talented AP teachers in greater numbers than exist now - holdovers from the previous principal will be viewed as suspect - and the school needs to be very clear as to how they will meet the demand.
To be fair in any analysis - SLHS, even if left to its own devices and boundaries would not implode to anywhere near the level of, let's say, the public high schools in DC. Those kinds of schools have even more complex problems, made worse by the fact that the school systems in those jurisdictions are often the employers of last resort for many in the community, and the quality of teachers and administrators (particularly administrators - whose ranks are filled with those that didn't succeed in teaching) is often poor, with no realistic means politically to fire them. And the socio-economic factors are even worse. But without racial balancing at SLHS there is a whiff of implosion in the air, and that is more than enough for those in charge of the school system to act proactively. As I said, I don't blame them.
Why do I make these points? What better time to make them than with the Parents United decision? It points to the fact that Brown, a seminal decision that should have marked the end, rather than the perpetuation of the achievement gap, is misunderstood, and it points to the fact that significant cultural factors - rarely talked about - contribute to the problem today every bit as much as racism.
The defendants in the Parents United case defended an extraordinary case - making it to the Supreme Court - maintaining that their schools needed to discriminate based on race so that they could eliminate the effects of discrimination based on race - when what they really meant was that if we don't discriminate based on race some of our schools will turn really bad and that would be a loss for the whole system. Too bad these schools couldn't be more direct and honest - political correctness kept them from doing so - but it predictably - with a conservative Supreme Court - led to a loss in the case. The FCPS could learn a lesson here - they won't - but if you ask people to make changes - be up front and tell them why, and ask them point blank to participate (and sacrifice if that is the word) for the good of the entire community.
And to the poster who claimed that those against transferring have a sense of entitlement - I would argue that of course they do - they by and large are paying at least 5/6 thousand a year in property taxes - and it is not unrealistic to expect a high quality, student focused education in return. Now, this does not mean that automatically SLHS cannot provide a good education - but it does mean that these same taxpayers are entitled to open and honest explanations. Let's be up front about the need to maintain racial balance - and be equally up front as to how the school plans to teach a different population with different skill sets - the kids transferring to SLHS need experienced, talented AP teachers in greater numbers than exist now - holdovers from the previous principal will be viewed as suspect - and the school needs to be very clear as to how they will meet the demand.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 02:47PM
Hi Quantum,
I think we have been saying that socioeconomic balance (which correlates to race) is important in a school, and that all the schools in the study should have that balance. It is in fact one of the boundary study criteria. We have not been shy about that.
What am I missing?
I think we have been saying that socioeconomic balance (which correlates to race) is important in a school, and that all the schools in the study should have that balance. It is in fact one of the boundary study criteria. We have not been shy about that.
What am I missing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
reston
()
Date: October 22, 2007 02:48PM
I think a major point that is trying to be made by some of the people posting from South Lakes is that yes, the problems with the school do lie partially in racial and socio-economic factors. But your children are not minorities and they are not of a lower socio-economic status and so they will not be recieving the lower test scores. If you want an example of this, look at where students who attended Sunrise Valley and went onto Langston Hughes and South Lakes have ended up. Most are in top schools and doing very well.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 22, 2007 02:56PM
Thank you, quantum, for one of the best posts that I've seen in the Underground!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 22, 2007 03:57PM
South Lakes Pyramid - it is not about what you are saying. It is all about candor at the top - including the school board. When people in leadership are indirect and don't speak bluntly to the truth, they do not inculcate confidence in others. And one can refer to "socio-economic" factors - but when it is used as a surrogate for race, it is at best indirect and at worst less than honest. And being blunt and direct here would hurt some feelings, but I assert that its beneficial effects would be profound because: 1) the honesty would make transferor parents deal with the issue head on and look to making tangible, realistic demands of the school to make the transfer concretely better and workable - this is why I mentioned AP courses - hardly an unrealistic demand given the relevant population; 2) any stigmatization that would occur is exactly what needs to take place - for too long we have approached these discussions with a condescension that is in and of itself racist and dooms too many to the prison of low expectations. There are real cultural impediments associated with race that money has not seemed to satisfy or really improve in any measurable way. And it is not about "blaming the victim". Rather, there are empirical strategies that make sense for everyone in a knowledge based economy (including not having kids out of wedlock) and those strategies by and large simply work. Let's hold all to adopting those strategies. And a fair discussion on a message board is a place to start.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 03:58PM
After rereading your post,I think what you want is for someone to say that the surrounding area schools are being "sacrificed" for South Lakes. I'm not sure why you need this kind of affirmation. Schools here are redistricted all the time and it is not characterized this way.
As a SL parent, I find this rather condescending, because of all the reasons I have posted before. I think your children may actually benefit from more diversity. I know mine have. Before we moved to the DC area several years ago. my children attended mostly white schools, meaning there were about 2 black kids at the high school, and not very many Asians, even.
Yes, it was a bit of a shock walking into Hunters Woods for the first time. It did scare me a little. But now, I am very happy with my kid's education and think they are better people for the exposure to so many different ways of thinking. Also, I think having so many other minorities in the school dilutes the whole black/white dynamic.
Truthfully, I think that SL has achieved a kind of balance where the kids mostly get along and I worry that a big influx will disrupt that balance in unpredictable ways. It will definitely change the small community feeling. But, it is also clear that we need more students in order to offer the kinds of courses most in demand. Bruce Butler made this clear at the SL PTA meeting.
As a SL parent, I find this rather condescending, because of all the reasons I have posted before. I think your children may actually benefit from more diversity. I know mine have. Before we moved to the DC area several years ago. my children attended mostly white schools, meaning there were about 2 black kids at the high school, and not very many Asians, even.
Yes, it was a bit of a shock walking into Hunters Woods for the first time. It did scare me a little. But now, I am very happy with my kid's education and think they are better people for the exposure to so many different ways of thinking. Also, I think having so many other minorities in the school dilutes the whole black/white dynamic.
Truthfully, I think that SL has achieved a kind of balance where the kids mostly get along and I worry that a big influx will disrupt that balance in unpredictable ways. It will definitely change the small community feeling. But, it is also clear that we need more students in order to offer the kinds of courses most in demand. Bruce Butler made this clear at the SL PTA meeting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 04:04PM
Quantum,
What strategies are you referring to?
What strategies are you referring to?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 04:38PM
slgrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will argue that the IB program better prepares
> students for college. Just from personal
> experience and seeing the differences in the
> classroom between kids who did the two programs.
At what college was this observation made and how many participants from each program were involve? Was this a statistically significant sample or are we just reporting anecdotal experience?
>
> Colleges require so many classes these days that
> you are absolutely capable of finding courses to
> take that have no prerequisite and are completely
> worth the money to take. Its your own fault if you
> cant find them and use the lack of test scores as
> an excuse.
Not if you're trying to progress to a degree in a major that also happened to be a subject for which the IB test was taken and not received until too late for freshman year class registration. this problem doesn't happen with AP.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will argue that the IB program better prepares
> students for college. Just from personal
> experience and seeing the differences in the
> classroom between kids who did the two programs.
At what college was this observation made and how many participants from each program were involve? Was this a statistically significant sample or are we just reporting anecdotal experience?
>
> Colleges require so many classes these days that
> you are absolutely capable of finding courses to
> take that have no prerequisite and are completely
> worth the money to take. Its your own fault if you
> cant find them and use the lack of test scores as
> an excuse.
Not if you're trying to progress to a degree in a major that also happened to be a subject for which the IB test was taken and not received until too late for freshman year class registration. this problem doesn't happen with AP.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: October 22, 2007 04:43PM
HunterMillVoter has provided some very specific recommendations for your vote. In a new thread, "School Board Election," I posted the Washington Post's recommendations, to include its recommendation for the school bond issue.
With the interest in "diversity," you may wish to review the at-large candidates. Some very positive comments have been made in the Post's editorial.
With the interest in "diversity," you may wish to review the at-large candidates. Some very positive comments have been made in the Post's editorial.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 22, 2007 04:49PM
Oh, you know, those oh so complex strategies that relate to having two parents in the home, a vital and strident focus on education and literacy above all else, a recognition of the degrading effects that cultural phenomena such as hip hop and popular entertainment has on vulnerable populations, a recognition that Government can provide limited benefits and that the best course lies with self accountability, and a conscious choice to build skills in a knowledge based economy before having children that you expect others to care for or subsidize - you know - those kind of strategies - that often get transmogrified to the shibboleth of blaming the victim. Inform people what is expected - and it makes a difference.
And as far as diversity, there likely is some value to it - but my view is that it is vastly overblown. I did not attend a diverse high school, but got plenty of diversity succeeding in a sport that was mostly populated by black athletes. And what I learned was that skin color didn't matter in getting to the finish line first - mostly what mattered (most everyone had considerable talent at the level I was competing at or they wouldn't have even been there) was preparation and focus - which I found strange because while my competitors indeed had that focus when it came to athletics they certainly (for the most part) were not held to the same expectations as I was when it came to academics. I was profoundly disturbed at the cultural differences in expectations - because believe me - the ability to work hard and be disciplined was intrinsically there. Diversity was nice, but it did not add to my education in a substantive way - that revolved around the level of educational attainment and competence that I demonstrated - period. Like anything else worth having, that was earned, and whether I earned with black, asian or any other kind of students sitting next to me did not matter.
And as far as diversity, there likely is some value to it - but my view is that it is vastly overblown. I did not attend a diverse high school, but got plenty of diversity succeeding in a sport that was mostly populated by black athletes. And what I learned was that skin color didn't matter in getting to the finish line first - mostly what mattered (most everyone had considerable talent at the level I was competing at or they wouldn't have even been there) was preparation and focus - which I found strange because while my competitors indeed had that focus when it came to athletics they certainly (for the most part) were not held to the same expectations as I was when it came to academics. I was profoundly disturbed at the cultural differences in expectations - because believe me - the ability to work hard and be disciplined was intrinsically there. Diversity was nice, but it did not add to my education in a substantive way - that revolved around the level of educational attainment and competence that I demonstrated - period. Like anything else worth having, that was earned, and whether I earned with black, asian or any other kind of students sitting next to me did not matter.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 22, 2007 04:54PM
its only a problem because you are making it a problem. its one semester. no major at any school requires that you take all your classes for your entire college career in your specific major. there would be plenty of classes to take.
as for IB preparing students better than AP, you are correct it is just an anecdotal observation but you also have no proof that IB does not prepare students better than AP.
as for IB preparing students better than AP, you are correct it is just an anecdotal observation but you also have no proof that IB does not prepare students better than AP.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 04:55PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid - it is not about what you are
> saying. It is all about candor at the top -
> including the school board. When people in
> leadership are indirect and don't speak bluntly to
> the truth, they do not inculcate confidence in
> others. And one can refer to "socio-economic"
> factors - but when it is used as a surrogate for
> race, it is at best indirect and at worst less
> than honest. And being blunt and direct here
> would hurt some feelings, but I assert that its
> beneficial effects would be profound because: 1)
> the honesty would make transferor parents deal
> with the issue head on and look to making
> tangible, realistic demands of the school to make
> the transfer concretely better and workable - this
> is why I mentioned AP courses - hardly an
> unrealistic demand given the relevant population;
> 2) any stigmatization that would occur is exactly
> what needs to take place - for too long we have
> approached these discussions with a condescension
> that is in and of itself racist and dooms too many
> to the prison of low expectations. There are real
> cultural impediments associated with race that
> money has not seemed to satisfy or really improve
> in any measurable way. And it is not about
> "blaming the victim". Rather, there are empirical
> strategies that make sense for everyone in a
> knowledge based economy (including not having kids
> out of wedlock) and those strategies by and large
> simply work. Let's hold all to adopting those
> strategies. And a fair discussion on a message
> board is a place to start.
You had me on the prior post and lost me on this one. There are plenty of black kids at SL who's parents have degrees from Ivy League Schools, drive expensive cars and moved to the upper income sections of the SL attendance area (yes, there are lots of those) in order for their kids to get a great education in a relatively (for Fairfax, at least) racially tolerant atmoshpere.
There are also a surprisingly substantial number of white kids of blue color background living in the SL attendance area whose parents never graduated from or ever attended classes at college.
Thus to ascribing challenges facing this population of students as all based on race is not only factually inaccurate but unnecessarily immflamatory.
It really is about socio-economic class and the self-defeating pathologies associated therewith, and not race.
For a great take on this read the last few chapters in Jim Webb's great book, Born Fighting, a history of the Scot-Irish in America.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid - it is not about what you are
> saying. It is all about candor at the top -
> including the school board. When people in
> leadership are indirect and don't speak bluntly to
> the truth, they do not inculcate confidence in
> others. And one can refer to "socio-economic"
> factors - but when it is used as a surrogate for
> race, it is at best indirect and at worst less
> than honest. And being blunt and direct here
> would hurt some feelings, but I assert that its
> beneficial effects would be profound because: 1)
> the honesty would make transferor parents deal
> with the issue head on and look to making
> tangible, realistic demands of the school to make
> the transfer concretely better and workable - this
> is why I mentioned AP courses - hardly an
> unrealistic demand given the relevant population;
> 2) any stigmatization that would occur is exactly
> what needs to take place - for too long we have
> approached these discussions with a condescension
> that is in and of itself racist and dooms too many
> to the prison of low expectations. There are real
> cultural impediments associated with race that
> money has not seemed to satisfy or really improve
> in any measurable way. And it is not about
> "blaming the victim". Rather, there are empirical
> strategies that make sense for everyone in a
> knowledge based economy (including not having kids
> out of wedlock) and those strategies by and large
> simply work. Let's hold all to adopting those
> strategies. And a fair discussion on a message
> board is a place to start.
You had me on the prior post and lost me on this one. There are plenty of black kids at SL who's parents have degrees from Ivy League Schools, drive expensive cars and moved to the upper income sections of the SL attendance area (yes, there are lots of those) in order for their kids to get a great education in a relatively (for Fairfax, at least) racially tolerant atmoshpere.
There are also a surprisingly substantial number of white kids of blue color background living in the SL attendance area whose parents never graduated from or ever attended classes at college.
Thus to ascribing challenges facing this population of students as all based on race is not only factually inaccurate but unnecessarily immflamatory.
It really is about socio-economic class and the self-defeating pathologies associated therewith, and not race.
For a great take on this read the last few chapters in Jim Webb's great book, Born Fighting, a history of the Scot-Irish in America.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 05:09PM
slgrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> its only a problem because you are making it a
> problem. its one semester. no major at any school
> requires that you take all your classes for your
> entire college career in your specific major.
> there would be plenty of classes to take.
Kids in AP don't have any problems with getting credit for their hard work in high school with advanced placement at college.
> as for IB preparing students better than AP, you
> are correct it is just an anecdotal observation
> but you also have no proof that IB does not
> prepare students better than AP.
My syllogism has been misstated.
The syllogism is that i) IB does not pay off better that a non-IB course choice for the time devoted and ii) that IB a) isn't better than AP, b) is recognized by a far smaller percentage of colleges and c) has more problems than AP.
Does the philosophy department offer Logic at the college you are attending?
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> its only a problem because you are making it a
> problem. its one semester. no major at any school
> requires that you take all your classes for your
> entire college career in your specific major.
> there would be plenty of classes to take.
Kids in AP don't have any problems with getting credit for their hard work in high school with advanced placement at college.
> as for IB preparing students better than AP, you
> are correct it is just an anecdotal observation
> but you also have no proof that IB does not
> prepare students better than AP.
My syllogism has been misstated.
The syllogism is that i) IB does not pay off better that a non-IB course choice for the time devoted and ii) that IB a) isn't better than AP, b) is recognized by a far smaller percentage of colleges and c) has more problems than AP.
Does the philosophy department offer Logic at the college you are attending?
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 05:14PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, you know, those oh so complex strategies that
> relate to having two parents in the home, a vital
> and strident focus on education and literacy above
> all else, a recognition of the degrading effects
> that cultural phenomena such as hip hop and
> popular entertainment has on vulnerable
> populations, a recognition that Government can
> provide limited benefits and that the best course
> lies with self accountability, and a conscious
> choice to build skills in a knowledge based
> economy before having children that you expect
> others to care for or subsidize - you know - those
> kind of strategies - that often get transmogrified
> to the shibboleth of blaming the victim.
All of these same phenomenon are observed among blue-collar and poor whites, in some instances at even with higher percentages. Why does it have to be a race thing?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, you know, those oh so complex strategies that
> relate to having two parents in the home, a vital
> and strident focus on education and literacy above
> all else, a recognition of the degrading effects
> that cultural phenomena such as hip hop and
> popular entertainment has on vulnerable
> populations, a recognition that Government can
> provide limited benefits and that the best course
> lies with self accountability, and a conscious
> choice to build skills in a knowledge based
> economy before having children that you expect
> others to care for or subsidize - you know - those
> kind of strategies - that often get transmogrified
> to the shibboleth of blaming the victim.
All of these same phenomenon are observed among blue-collar and poor whites, in some instances at even with higher percentages. Why does it have to be a race thing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 22, 2007 05:23PM
Logic eh? We've never heard of that at this tiny school of mine. My apologies for not understanding your argument. I merely think that the IB program does not warrant the bashing it gets. I had no problems with it and neither did anyone I know. AP is fine too, I just do not agree that it is the better program.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 05:45PM
I agree, Quantum, that there are significant cultural differences that correlate to lack of achievement, behavioral problems, etc.
I do know that, unlike the previous principal, Bruce Butler has very high expectations for behavior at school and the statistics are improving. It is possible for kids to meet higher expectations in school even if their home life is not what it should be. This is the original purpose of NCLB.
I read an article about a boarding school (in DC) where inner city kids are required to live there. They can go home for the weekend, but most don't, because they find it is too hard to live "two lives". A very large percentage go onto college and are very high achievers. Taking them out of their environment was what was required.
However, we are in the suburbs--a little different than the inner city. If the kids from deprived home lives interact with the non-deprived kids, or at least see that there is a different way to be, there is hope for them.
I do know that, unlike the previous principal, Bruce Butler has very high expectations for behavior at school and the statistics are improving. It is possible for kids to meet higher expectations in school even if their home life is not what it should be. This is the original purpose of NCLB.
I read an article about a boarding school (in DC) where inner city kids are required to live there. They can go home for the weekend, but most don't, because they find it is too hard to live "two lives". A very large percentage go onto college and are very high achievers. Taking them out of their environment was what was required.
However, we are in the suburbs--a little different than the inner city. If the kids from deprived home lives interact with the non-deprived kids, or at least see that there is a different way to be, there is hope for them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
A. Parent
()
Date: October 22, 2007 06:18PM
Wow, this thread is really getting intellectual. It's starting to be hard to follow all the big words. And logic. I have a few items to share.
-one of my children declined the TJ acceptance and went directly to college (yes, it can be done)
-one child took sufficient AP courses to get a BA degree in three years--rather than graduate early, this child is enjoying a leisurely senior year
-we are below Fairfax County average family income--so no tuition help
-we are pretty average parents--maybe less than (no soccer mom, no pushing kids into programs)
-believe it's all in the "nature and nurture" and kids will pretty much do what they want to--thanks to my genes and spouse's nurturing
-one of my children declined the TJ acceptance and went directly to college (yes, it can be done)
-one child took sufficient AP courses to get a BA degree in three years--rather than graduate early, this child is enjoying a leisurely senior year
-we are below Fairfax County average family income--so no tuition help
-we are pretty average parents--maybe less than (no soccer mom, no pushing kids into programs)
-believe it's all in the "nature and nurture" and kids will pretty much do what they want to--thanks to my genes and spouse's nurturing
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Patriot
()
Date: October 22, 2007 08:39PM
What is so infuriating about this process is that people make CHOICES regarding where to live based on many factors, and most people include school district among them. We CHOOSE to live where we do. This means that when I bought my house I CHOOSE a small, beat-up split level that was more expensive than much newer, nicer homes in Reston, soley because it was in the school pyramid I wanted.
But to have STU come along and take away my CHOICE when there are other options available really pisses me off. And then there are our homes. Property values will stabilize and slowly rise, they always do, it's only a 7-year market. But nothing will save our property values if the school district is not desirable.
I don't want ONE SINGLE FAMILY moved from the school of their CHOICE. Other options exist. Cya later Stu, I CHOOSE who receives my vote.
But to have STU come along and take away my CHOICE when there are other options available really pisses me off. And then there are our homes. Property values will stabilize and slowly rise, they always do, it's only a 7-year market. But nothing will save our property values if the school district is not desirable.
I don't want ONE SINGLE FAMILY moved from the school of their CHOICE. Other options exist. Cya later Stu, I CHOOSE who receives my vote.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 22, 2007 08:59PM
Patriot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is so infuriating about this process is that
> people make CHOICES regarding where to live based
> on many factors, and most people include school
> district among them. We CHOOSE to live where we
> do. This means that when I bought my house I
> CHOOSE a small, beat-up split level that was more
> expensive than much newer, nicer homes in Reston,
> soley because it was in the school pyramid I
> wanted.
>
> But to have STU come along and take away my CHOICE
> when there are other options available really
> pisses me off. And then there are our homes.
> Property values will stabilize and slowly rise,
> they always do, it's only a 7-year market. But
> nothing will save our property values if the
> school district is not desirable.
>
> I don't want ONE SINGLE FAMILY moved from the
> school of their CHOICE. Other options exist. Cya
> later Stu, I CHOOSE who receives my vote.
You chose to live in Reston but don't want to go to Reston's high school?
No viable alternative to boundary line adjustments has been presented on this blog or any where else.
News flash: given the lack of statistical difference between HHS, SLHS and OHS being in either attendance district will have no measurable or discernable impact on property values if your home is redistricted. Any competent appraiser will tell you that.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is so infuriating about this process is that
> people make CHOICES regarding where to live based
> on many factors, and most people include school
> district among them. We CHOOSE to live where we
> do. This means that when I bought my house I
> CHOOSE a small, beat-up split level that was more
> expensive than much newer, nicer homes in Reston,
> soley because it was in the school pyramid I
> wanted.
>
> But to have STU come along and take away my CHOICE
> when there are other options available really
> pisses me off. And then there are our homes.
> Property values will stabilize and slowly rise,
> they always do, it's only a 7-year market. But
> nothing will save our property values if the
> school district is not desirable.
>
> I don't want ONE SINGLE FAMILY moved from the
> school of their CHOICE. Other options exist. Cya
> later Stu, I CHOOSE who receives my vote.
You chose to live in Reston but don't want to go to Reston's high school?
No viable alternative to boundary line adjustments has been presented on this blog or any where else.
News flash: given the lack of statistical difference between HHS, SLHS and OHS being in either attendance district will have no measurable or discernable impact on property values if your home is redistricted. Any competent appraiser will tell you that.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: October 22, 2007 11:31PM
no one can really argue that the ib program doesn't prepare you for college. until this year, i didn't really know how much work it is -- and i went to the school. ergo by default no one who didn't personally take ib classes isn't qualified to question their difficulty. right now i'm getting fried in ib english, bio and history-- typically my strongest of subjects
to change tempo, i recommend going to chantilly on november 12 at 7:30 for a meeting. 1-2000 people anticipated.
to change tempo, i recommend going to chantilly on november 12 at 7:30 for a meeting. 1-2000 people anticipated.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SueBonnetSue
()
Date: October 23, 2007 12:04AM
Cricket,
You can go to this page and find out how many people voted in previous school board elections:
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/eb/returns.htm#Previous
In these off, off, year elections about 33% of the voters turn out.
In the last school board election, 2003, Stu Gibson got 16,573 votes and his opponent, Arthur Purves got 3,724. Christine Arakelian is about a hundred times better candidate than Purves. He's something of a joke, a bit strange and always running for something or other. Christine could beat Stu, IF we get the vote out for her. Vienna will have a large voter turn out because of Jeannemarie/Chap contest. Most people in Vienna don't know a thing about Stu. Those who do know him, don't like him.
I would also urge people to do to the meetings for boundary changes but I would also caution that if Stu Gibson is re elected, he will do whatever he wants with boundaries for South Lakes. Ditto Kathy Smith. It's already been decided what will be done. Sad, but true, the deal has been done. The only way it will be changed is if Stu and Kathy lose their positions on the school board.
You can go to this page and find out how many people voted in previous school board elections:
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/eb/returns.htm#Previous
In these off, off, year elections about 33% of the voters turn out.
In the last school board election, 2003, Stu Gibson got 16,573 votes and his opponent, Arthur Purves got 3,724. Christine Arakelian is about a hundred times better candidate than Purves. He's something of a joke, a bit strange and always running for something or other. Christine could beat Stu, IF we get the vote out for her. Vienna will have a large voter turn out because of Jeannemarie/Chap contest. Most people in Vienna don't know a thing about Stu. Those who do know him, don't like him.
I would also urge people to do to the meetings for boundary changes but I would also caution that if Stu Gibson is re elected, he will do whatever he wants with boundaries for South Lakes. Ditto Kathy Smith. It's already been decided what will be done. Sad, but true, the deal has been done. The only way it will be changed is if Stu and Kathy lose their positions on the school board.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SueBonnetSue
()
Date: October 23, 2007 12:18AM
Patriot is right. The school pyramid doesn't matter for house values, why do real estate agents advertise if a home is in the Madison district, or Langley, but we never see 'coveted South Lakes pyramid'?
When people move to Faifax county one of the first things they look at is the school district. More people wanting to buy a home makes it more valuable. Obviously. More people will be looking at homes in the Madison pyramid, and Oakton, and Langley, than will be looking in the South Lakes pyramid. More potential buyers, higher house price. There's a reason why South Lakes is under enrolled. Families do not want to move into that district. That makes homes im the pyramid less valuable. Common sense when you think about it.
I feel sorry for people who did everything right to get the right education for their children, only to have it all ripped away from them on the whim of Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith and Janie Straus. One option is to rent in the school district where you want to live. Or rent your house until house values go back up, and buy in the area where you want next summer when prices will still be low.
It's too bad that we don't have CHOICE in schools. We have CHOICE in everything else. Why not schools too?
Of course school pyramid matters in house values. Ask an economist. Or any real estate agent.
When people move to Faifax county one of the first things they look at is the school district. More people wanting to buy a home makes it more valuable. Obviously. More people will be looking at homes in the Madison pyramid, and Oakton, and Langley, than will be looking in the South Lakes pyramid. More potential buyers, higher house price. There's a reason why South Lakes is under enrolled. Families do not want to move into that district. That makes homes im the pyramid less valuable. Common sense when you think about it.
I feel sorry for people who did everything right to get the right education for their children, only to have it all ripped away from them on the whim of Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith and Janie Straus. One option is to rent in the school district where you want to live. Or rent your house until house values go back up, and buy in the area where you want next summer when prices will still be low.
It's too bad that we don't have CHOICE in schools. We have CHOICE in everything else. Why not schools too?
Of course school pyramid matters in house values. Ask an economist. Or any real estate agent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SueBonnetSue
()
Date: October 23, 2007 12:36AM
>>>Why does it have to be a race thing?<<<
I've also wondered about that. Why does our school board always talk about race, and have so many race based programs, so much affirmative action? Why can't we just have programs based on merit, or need, without regard to race? Why can't entrance to TJ be race blind? Why does Young Scholars, designed to get more black kids into GT Centers, get more money every year? What about Quest, for only black and Hispanic kids to try to get them into TJ? And the tutoring program in Reston for Black kids? Why is every teacher and guidance counselor told to encourage more Black students to take IB and Ap? Why not encourage the poor white kids and poor Asian students too? Why does FCPS keep reams of stats on Black students enrolled in any and every advanced class? What about all the poor Asian kids and poor white kids who don't have any special programs for them? Doesn't seem fair.
You'll have to ask Stu Gibson, or whoever your school board member is, why so much is race based in FCPS. Why is more important for a rich black kid in McLean to take AP classes rather than a poor Asian kid in Herndon? I got nothing for you here.
I've also wondered about that. Why does our school board always talk about race, and have so many race based programs, so much affirmative action? Why can't we just have programs based on merit, or need, without regard to race? Why can't entrance to TJ be race blind? Why does Young Scholars, designed to get more black kids into GT Centers, get more money every year? What about Quest, for only black and Hispanic kids to try to get them into TJ? And the tutoring program in Reston for Black kids? Why is every teacher and guidance counselor told to encourage more Black students to take IB and Ap? Why not encourage the poor white kids and poor Asian students too? Why does FCPS keep reams of stats on Black students enrolled in any and every advanced class? What about all the poor Asian kids and poor white kids who don't have any special programs for them? Doesn't seem fair.
You'll have to ask Stu Gibson, or whoever your school board member is, why so much is race based in FCPS. Why is more important for a rich black kid in McLean to take AP classes rather than a poor Asian kid in Herndon? I got nothing for you here.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SueBonnetSue
()
Date: October 23, 2007 12:42AM
Where can we see the South Lakes stats improving? Not here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1310
Six assaults on staff, for the last two posted years. Don't know if Bruce Butler was there then.
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1310
Six assaults on staff, for the last two posted years. Don't know if Bruce Butler was there then.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Bob James
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:33AM
SueBonnetSue, I agree strongly with your comments and assessment.
The "diversity" issue has been force-fed to us by the government. As a federal worker I have seen us go from the melting pot to the mixing bowl, with, IMHO, the tangible results you report and observe. Religious fringe groups have corrupted our society with their askewed agendas. Political correctness stifles honest discussions, has introduced metaphors and euphemisms that disrupt the critical thinking process and fact-based decision making.
I have seen also the federal government's efforts to contract out work and services, previously done more efficiently, honestly, and less cost by civil servants--this philosophy is in government regulation and trickles down into state and county government as well. Allied with this effort are the affirmative actions to support minority companies. Examine all the so-called front organizations (read minority) that hold government contracts for major corporations.
We are spending billions of dollars to "democratize" the world. Yet, as a nation, we can't solve the very real problems of medical services, homeless people, poor people, sustainable resources, and other disadvantaged and under served groups. The race card is played daily (unfortunately, often with some justification). Criminal illegal aliens continue to attack, molest, rob, and otherwise provide a drain on our pursuit of happiness and well being.
Just to make clear: I am NOT a racist. I believe in merit and opportunity for all United States citizens. SueBonnetSue has more eloquently explained how I feel.
The "diversity" issue has been force-fed to us by the government. As a federal worker I have seen us go from the melting pot to the mixing bowl, with, IMHO, the tangible results you report and observe. Religious fringe groups have corrupted our society with their askewed agendas. Political correctness stifles honest discussions, has introduced metaphors and euphemisms that disrupt the critical thinking process and fact-based decision making.
I have seen also the federal government's efforts to contract out work and services, previously done more efficiently, honestly, and less cost by civil servants--this philosophy is in government regulation and trickles down into state and county government as well. Allied with this effort are the affirmative actions to support minority companies. Examine all the so-called front organizations (read minority) that hold government contracts for major corporations.
We are spending billions of dollars to "democratize" the world. Yet, as a nation, we can't solve the very real problems of medical services, homeless people, poor people, sustainable resources, and other disadvantaged and under served groups. The race card is played daily (unfortunately, often with some justification). Criminal illegal aliens continue to attack, molest, rob, and otherwise provide a drain on our pursuit of happiness and well being.
Just to make clear: I am NOT a racist. I believe in merit and opportunity for all United States citizens. SueBonnetSue has more eloquently explained how I feel.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 05:15AM
SueBonnetSue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why
> does FCPS keep reams of stats on Black students
> enrolled in any and every advanced class?
400 hundeds years of official racial discrimination that did not end until sometime in the 1960-1970s.
> What
> about all the poor Asian kids and poor white kids
> who don't have any special programs for them?
> Doesn't seem fair.
Agreed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why
> does FCPS keep reams of stats on Black students
> enrolled in any and every advanced class?
400 hundeds years of official racial discrimination that did not end until sometime in the 1960-1970s.
> What
> about all the poor Asian kids and poor white kids
> who don't have any special programs for them?
> Doesn't seem fair.
Agreed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 05:28AM
SueBonnetSue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Patriot is right. The school pyramid doesn't
> matter for house values, why do real estate agents
> advertise if a home is in the Madison district, or
> Langley, but we never see 'coveted South Lakes
> pyramid'?
Because real estate brokers are snake oil sales men.
> There's a reason why South Lakes is under
> enrolled. Families do not want to move into that
> district.
Because they've been priced out by the Dinks, frat boys
and sorority sisters with subprime money and no kids who want to live close to their job in the Dulles corridor.
> I feel sorry for people who did everything right
> to get the right education for their children,
> only to have it all ripped away from them on the
> whim of Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith and Janie
> Straus. One option is to rent in the school
> district where you want to live. Or rent your
> house until house values go back up, and buy in
> the area where you want next summer when prices
> will still be low.
Just tell them you want AP instead of IB & you're out of there.
> Of course school pyramid matters in house values.
> Ask an economist. Or any real estate agent.
Ask a real estate appraiser and you'll get a different answer.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Patriot is right. The school pyramid doesn't
> matter for house values, why do real estate agents
> advertise if a home is in the Madison district, or
> Langley, but we never see 'coveted South Lakes
> pyramid'?
Because real estate brokers are snake oil sales men.
> There's a reason why South Lakes is under
> enrolled. Families do not want to move into that
> district.
Because they've been priced out by the Dinks, frat boys
and sorority sisters with subprime money and no kids who want to live close to their job in the Dulles corridor.
> I feel sorry for people who did everything right
> to get the right education for their children,
> only to have it all ripped away from them on the
> whim of Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith and Janie
> Straus. One option is to rent in the school
> district where you want to live. Or rent your
> house until house values go back up, and buy in
> the area where you want next summer when prices
> will still be low.
Just tell them you want AP instead of IB & you're out of there.
> Of course school pyramid matters in house values.
> Ask an economist. Or any real estate agent.
Ask a real estate appraiser and you'll get a different answer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 23, 2007 06:55AM
The School Board is not being honest about the reason for this boundary study. They say it's to eliminate overcrowding.
Westfield holds 3100 they have 3171. Chantilly holds 2625 they have 2838. Both are projected to be under enrolled in 3 years... about the same time that grandfathering would be over if it is allowed. (which is probably why the don't want to do it)
BUT IS ANYONE COMPLAINING...
The following question was asked about the complaints of overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfield under the Freedom of Information Act...
“Specifically, I need to know who the ‘community members’ are and the details of their ‘concerns.’ I want a list of names, the dates their concerns were expressed, and the details of their concerns…”
FCPS ANSWER:
“There aren’t any written or electronic documents pertaining to the community member’s concerns reflected in the July 16 School Board work session agenda item. The statement reflects input received from citizens at various community meetings regarding school facilities. The comments were oral, and were not contained in a letter or e-mail.”
Oral comments from unnamed “citizens at various community meetings” are hardly a mandate for change from the citizenry. Rather, the FOIA response provides little justification for initiating the study in the first place.
Westfield holds 3100 they have 3171. Chantilly holds 2625 they have 2838. Both are projected to be under enrolled in 3 years... about the same time that grandfathering would be over if it is allowed. (which is probably why the don't want to do it)
BUT IS ANYONE COMPLAINING...
The following question was asked about the complaints of overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfield under the Freedom of Information Act...
“Specifically, I need to know who the ‘community members’ are and the details of their ‘concerns.’ I want a list of names, the dates their concerns were expressed, and the details of their concerns…”
FCPS ANSWER:
“There aren’t any written or electronic documents pertaining to the community member’s concerns reflected in the July 16 School Board work session agenda item. The statement reflects input received from citizens at various community meetings regarding school facilities. The comments were oral, and were not contained in a letter or e-mail.”
Oral comments from unnamed “citizens at various community meetings” are hardly a mandate for change from the citizenry. Rather, the FOIA response provides little justification for initiating the study in the first place.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 08:04AM
I keep hearing different things about overcrowding at Westfield. Some people say it isn't overcrowded. Some people say even though it has the building capacity,their kids can't participate in sports, etc. Which is it?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 23, 2007 08:50AM
Westfield is 2% over capacity or 71 students out of 3100. Negligable. True, it is harder to make a team when the school is bigger. But after the taxpayers ponied up the money to (1) build the school and then (2) expand it to 3100, you can't turn around and say well it's just too big. In the business world you'd be fired for making such wrong headed decisions.
Claiming that Westfield and Chantilly are over crowded was the key to eliminating Langley, Madison (except for the island) and others from the Boundary Study. And there is no evidence of any complaints to back this up. See note from Jane Struass below....
"Last summer when the Board decided what the scope of the study should be and the schools that would be considered, other schools in addition to Langley were also not included, namely Falls Church, Woodson and Robinson. As I said earlier, our intent is to try to decrease the large student populations at Westfield and Chantilly and take advantage of the seats at South Lakes. " - Jane Strauss
Stu Gibson is hailed by the papers as having great courage to announce this Boundary Study prior to the election. I think he's a coward. It's not his constituants that are being asked to relocate (except for the island - and there are very few voters in the island). It's Kathy Smith's. He has hung a noose around her neck - and no doubt, she will go down this election.
Claiming that Westfield and Chantilly are over crowded was the key to eliminating Langley, Madison (except for the island) and others from the Boundary Study. And there is no evidence of any complaints to back this up. See note from Jane Struass below....
"Last summer when the Board decided what the scope of the study should be and the schools that would be considered, other schools in addition to Langley were also not included, namely Falls Church, Woodson and Robinson. As I said earlier, our intent is to try to decrease the large student populations at Westfield and Chantilly and take advantage of the seats at South Lakes. " - Jane Strauss
Stu Gibson is hailed by the papers as having great courage to announce this Boundary Study prior to the election. I think he's a coward. It's not his constituants that are being asked to relocate (except for the island - and there are very few voters in the island). It's Kathy Smith's. He has hung a noose around her neck - and no doubt, she will go down this election.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 23, 2007 09:00AM
capys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Stu Gibson is hailed by the papers as having great
> courage to announce this Boundary Study prior to
> the election. I think he's a coward. It's not his
> constituants that are being asked to relocate
> (except for the island - and there are very few
> voters in the island). It's Kathy Smith's. He has
> hung a noose around her neck - and no doubt, she
> will go down this election.
The only paper that "hailed" Stu is the post...and they really know soooo much about what is going on. They could hail a meatball sub and some sad souls who can't think with thier own brains would blindly follow the piper. come to think about it, I would prefer a meatball sub to Stu.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Stu Gibson is hailed by the papers as having great
> courage to announce this Boundary Study prior to
> the election. I think he's a coward. It's not his
> constituants that are being asked to relocate
> (except for the island - and there are very few
> voters in the island). It's Kathy Smith's. He has
> hung a noose around her neck - and no doubt, she
> will go down this election.
The only paper that "hailed" Stu is the post...and they really know soooo much about what is going on. They could hail a meatball sub and some sad souls who can't think with thier own brains would blindly follow the piper. come to think about it, I would prefer a meatball sub to Stu.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 23, 2007 09:14AM
capys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
... See note from Jane
> Struass below....
>
> "Last summer when the Board decided what the scope
> of the study should be and the schools that would
> be considered, other schools in addition to
> Langley were also not included, namely Falls
> Church, Woodson and Robinson. As I said earlier,
> our intent is to try to decrease the large student
> populations at Westfield and Chantilly and...
That decision was made years ago in 2003. They used to have contiguous groupings on the CIP but that was removed since it showed some basic geopgraphy some board members DID NOT WANT people to see: Langley /South Lakes/Herndon , Mount Vernon/anything. PLUS Falls Church/Woodson/Robinson.
South County School Contract Still Being Negotiated
Difference of Opinion on Solving Overcrowding Issues
By Jennifer Lesinski
January 22, 2003
No contracts have been signed as yet for the public-private partnership construction of the south county high school, said Thomas Brady, Fairfax County Public Schools chief operating officer, at a School Board work session Jan. 13.
A deal between the county supervisors, School Board and private developer is still being worked on that could potentially have the school build on the former Lorton prison site by 2005 instead of 2008 if left to the schools alone.
Brady did say that even though the school-construction contract has yet to be finalized, the school system will be taking advantage of in-kind proffers from another developer, Pulte, who has agreed to do grading and utility work leading up to the school site.
"You might see work going on there, but it is not a groundbreaking or the beginning of the construction of the school," he said.
IN OTHER CAPITAL improvement program (CIP) news, schools staff stressed that the proposed addition at Langley High School is a permanent addition and that there are no plans to change the school's ...Brady said that staff will soon be recommending a firm to perform a real-estate assessment that includes a plan for the sale, trade or swap of school system property for existing space that can be leased or purchased to be used as classroom space or administrative centers...Brady said.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS Rita Thompson and Mychele Brickner, both at-large members, without mentioning the words “boundary change,” suggested the School Board should be looking at reapportioning the attendance areas to address the overcrowding of some schools, while others are underenrolled. The pair did not find support among their fellow members.
"We have overcapacity at Westfield and overcapacity at Langley, and we're under capacity at South Lakes. I understand the political ramifications, but we are responsible to all the taxpayers to show we are being responsible with their money, and we aren't trying to address this," Brickner said.
"A lot of people choose where to live based on the high schools where they live. It has been suggested before that all of Reston should go to South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a daughter who went there and another that is going to graduate from there, but North Point Village doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the community and float the idea of a boundary change, go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting that measure."
-------------------------------------------------------
... See note from Jane
> Struass below....
>
> "Last summer when the Board decided what the scope
> of the study should be and the schools that would
> be considered, other schools in addition to
> Langley were also not included, namely Falls
> Church, Woodson and Robinson. As I said earlier,
> our intent is to try to decrease the large student
> populations at Westfield and Chantilly and...
That decision was made years ago in 2003. They used to have contiguous groupings on the CIP but that was removed since it showed some basic geopgraphy some board members DID NOT WANT people to see: Langley /South Lakes/Herndon , Mount Vernon/anything. PLUS Falls Church/Woodson/Robinson.
South County School Contract Still Being Negotiated
Difference of Opinion on Solving Overcrowding Issues
By Jennifer Lesinski
January 22, 2003
No contracts have been signed as yet for the public-private partnership construction of the south county high school, said Thomas Brady, Fairfax County Public Schools chief operating officer, at a School Board work session Jan. 13.
A deal between the county supervisors, School Board and private developer is still being worked on that could potentially have the school build on the former Lorton prison site by 2005 instead of 2008 if left to the schools alone.
Brady did say that even though the school-construction contract has yet to be finalized, the school system will be taking advantage of in-kind proffers from another developer, Pulte, who has agreed to do grading and utility work leading up to the school site.
"You might see work going on there, but it is not a groundbreaking or the beginning of the construction of the school," he said.
IN OTHER CAPITAL improvement program (CIP) news, schools staff stressed that the proposed addition at Langley High School is a permanent addition and that there are no plans to change the school's ...Brady said that staff will soon be recommending a firm to perform a real-estate assessment that includes a plan for the sale, trade or swap of school system property for existing space that can be leased or purchased to be used as classroom space or administrative centers...Brady said.
SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS Rita Thompson and Mychele Brickner, both at-large members, without mentioning the words “boundary change,” suggested the School Board should be looking at reapportioning the attendance areas to address the overcrowding of some schools, while others are underenrolled. The pair did not find support among their fellow members.
"We have overcapacity at Westfield and overcapacity at Langley, and we're under capacity at South Lakes. I understand the political ramifications, but we are responsible to all the taxpayers to show we are being responsible with their money, and we aren't trying to address this," Brickner said.
"A lot of people choose where to live based on the high schools where they live. It has been suggested before that all of Reston should go to South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a daughter who went there and another that is going to graduate from there, but North Point Village doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the community and float the idea of a boundary change, go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting that measure."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 23, 2007 09:22AM
Thomas More, are you a realtor now or an appraiser? School distirct most certainly does factor in in the value of a home. The "appraiser" values the house on its condition and "livibility" not the location. The market determines the value as well as the supply/demand/interest/economy as well as other factors. And before you ask yes I am in real estate. So you previous post I totally disagree with. Folks all you can do is get out the vote, go AGAINST STU and Kathy Smith and you all should remian where you are for another five to ten years. But YOU MUST GET OUT AND VOTE BE HEARD AND PASS THE WORD!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 10:09AM
> "A lot of people choose where to live based on the
> high schools where they live. It has been
> suggested before that all of Reston should go to
> South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to
> go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a
> daughter who went there and another that is going
> to graduate from there, but North Point Village
> doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson
> (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the
> community and float the idea of a boundary change,
> go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting
> that measure."
Well that seals it. Gibson is a lying sack of bovine excrement. He sat at the South Lakes PTA meeting while a parent made a thoughtful explanation why Aldrin and Armstrong should be redistricted into South Lakes and why Forestville being transferred to Herndon to maintain its socio-economic balance. That patronizing schemer nodded and said what an interesting idea never once mentioning his January 2003 statement quoted above.
Arakelian for Hunter Mill is the only choice.
> high schools where they live. It has been
> suggested before that all of Reston should go to
> South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to
> go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a
> daughter who went there and another that is going
> to graduate from there, but North Point Village
> doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson
> (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the
> community and float the idea of a boundary change,
> go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting
> that measure."
Well that seals it. Gibson is a lying sack of bovine excrement. He sat at the South Lakes PTA meeting while a parent made a thoughtful explanation why Aldrin and Armstrong should be redistricted into South Lakes and why Forestville being transferred to Herndon to maintain its socio-economic balance. That patronizing schemer nodded and said what an interesting idea never once mentioning his January 2003 statement quoted above.
Arakelian for Hunter Mill is the only choice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Patriot
()
Date: October 23, 2007 10:12AM
Thomas More - Truth Seeker is correct - the "market" value is how much someone is willing to pay for your house and that's basically the only value that matters when you're selling your house. The appraisal may not change much from one area to another but the list price sure will.
I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out there right now holding off on purchasing until the redistricting decision is made. It really does matter to people.
Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out there right now holding off on purchasing until the redistricting decision is made. It really does matter to people.
Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 23, 2007 10:35AM
Thomas More - it has to be a race thing because the data makes it that way - period. Yes, "poor whites' have the same kind of problems - but by far and away the most disturbing data reflect that even middle class black students perform worse than their very poor white counterparts. This is a snippet from a recent article published in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, hardly a source of "right wing" prejudice or world view:
____
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.
______________
So when you ask why is it always about race - it is because the statistics make it so. Even the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education states so. And even if you contest the viability of SAT scores, there are numerous other indicators that reflect the same paradigm or worse - NAEP scores for one. Of course, the fact that these statistics exist are really troublesome - because frankly they can be used by those with less than honorable intent - but they exist - and no amount of delusion will make them go away. So ask yourself, what would you do if you, as an educator, had tried virtually every trick in the book, and the "gap" so to speak, still stubbornly persists? Well, to protect your schools, you would seek an influx of demographically "good" students - because the data, and not someone's sensitivities, reflect that this will solve a lot of problems in terms of maintaining the overall quality of the school at issue. So again, why not be honest about what is happening, rather than gloss over the issue with homages to diversity and "socio-economic" factors. There are real cultural impediments to learning in certain communities that transcend money - and a concomitant rejection of tried and true life strategies as well - once again, we need to openly talk about them.
____
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.
______________
So when you ask why is it always about race - it is because the statistics make it so. Even the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education states so. And even if you contest the viability of SAT scores, there are numerous other indicators that reflect the same paradigm or worse - NAEP scores for one. Of course, the fact that these statistics exist are really troublesome - because frankly they can be used by those with less than honorable intent - but they exist - and no amount of delusion will make them go away. So ask yourself, what would you do if you, as an educator, had tried virtually every trick in the book, and the "gap" so to speak, still stubbornly persists? Well, to protect your schools, you would seek an influx of demographically "good" students - because the data, and not someone's sensitivities, reflect that this will solve a lot of problems in terms of maintaining the overall quality of the school at issue. So again, why not be honest about what is happening, rather than gloss over the issue with homages to diversity and "socio-economic" factors. There are real cultural impediments to learning in certain communities that transcend money - and a concomitant rejection of tried and true life strategies as well - once again, we need to openly talk about them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 10:59AM
OK, Quantum.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you.....and I'm not sure how saying "race" instead of "socioeconomic class" is going to help the conversation about redistricting. Racial numbers are included in the "demographics" that we are talking about, so you can go by them, and they will be included in the analysis of various redistricting scenarios, if you can believe Stu....
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you.....and I'm not sure how saying "race" instead of "socioeconomic class" is going to help the conversation about redistricting. Racial numbers are included in the "demographics" that we are talking about, so you can go by them, and they will be included in the analysis of various redistricting scenarios, if you can believe Stu....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 23, 2007 12:25PM
SL Pyramid Parent - Of course the right message will make a difference. With all the dodges, and elliptical uses of language with this issue, we consistently fail to state exactly what is needed - that a certain population must step up to cultural change - must step up to accountability - and must undergo a drastic change. This is what of course Bill Cosby has been saying, to the significant consternation of many - black and white alike - it has not been a message that is received well by those grounded in the civil rights era, who are conditioned to thinking that every ill in the black community is the cause of oppression by whites. Put another way, everyone dances around the fear of stigmatizing a certain group - but bluntly put, stigmatization, as long is it is accompanied by honest debate and accurate facts, can have significant salutary effects. By analogy, that is exactly what welfare reform as enacted by Bill Clinton (to the tremendous umbrage of the Left) in the mid-90's did - it stigmatized the prior behaviors that led to so many being addicted to public entitlement programs and in so doing significantly decreased the welfare rolls - stigmatization, as politically incorrect as it may be, can be an agent for social change. And there's little question that cross-generation welfare dependency can rip the fabric out of affected communities. And this is why I feel so strongly about the need to be accurate as to why political and school leaders are doing what they do - the status quo will continue without open and honest and accurate discussion, and the failure to engage in that kind of discussion only enables the status quo. I find it interesting that there is significant discomfort over what I am writing, but yet no one is substantively contesting the facts as I state them - only emotionally reacting to the notion that I am somehow inappropriately raising the issue of race. Well, I wouldn't raise it if decision makers did not include race in their calculations - but they are in fact doing so - almost to the exclusion of anything else - even though they are not telling you that. And I would further argue that this has been happening since Brown in the 50's, and the discussions have only become more obtuse and elliptical in the passing years, except for the brave few who dare comment on the rather obvious data. Why be anything else but accurate and compelling when the chance presents?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 12:44PM
Patriot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More - Truth Seeker is correct - the
> "market" value is how much someone is willing to
> pay for your house and that's basically the only
> value that matters when you're selling your house.
> The appraisal may not change much from one area
> to another but the list price sure will.
>
> I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out
> there right now holding off on purchasing until
> the redistricting decision is made. It really
> does matter to people.
>
> Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble
> abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
Real estate agents don't represent the buyer. They don't represent the seller. They represent the commission and will do anything and say anything to get that commission.
Appraisers look at long term pricing trends and not the needs of individual home buyers. But you're a real estate agent and wouldn't understand anything longer than a 90 day closing period.
Keep your buyers out of Fox Mill that elmentary school is definitely going to SL. The question is unanswered on Crossfields. It might still be McNair instead. I certainly hope so. The prospect of those spoiled brats having drag races up Twin Branches or Soapstone to and from SL in their Daddy's BMW scares me to death.
Are your buyers going to wait until March or June for this issue to be resolved or are they waiting until the market for subprime jumbo loans becomes liquid again?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More - Truth Seeker is correct - the
> "market" value is how much someone is willing to
> pay for your house and that's basically the only
> value that matters when you're selling your house.
> The appraisal may not change much from one area
> to another but the list price sure will.
>
> I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out
> there right now holding off on purchasing until
> the redistricting decision is made. It really
> does matter to people.
>
> Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble
> abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
Real estate agents don't represent the buyer. They don't represent the seller. They represent the commission and will do anything and say anything to get that commission.
Appraisers look at long term pricing trends and not the needs of individual home buyers. But you're a real estate agent and wouldn't understand anything longer than a 90 day closing period.
Keep your buyers out of Fox Mill that elmentary school is definitely going to SL. The question is unanswered on Crossfields. It might still be McNair instead. I certainly hope so. The prospect of those spoiled brats having drag races up Twin Branches or Soapstone to and from SL in their Daddy's BMW scares me to death.
Are your buyers going to wait until March or June for this issue to be resolved or are they waiting until the market for subprime jumbo loans becomes liquid again?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 12:51PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> • Whites from families with incomes of less than
> $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129
> points higher than the national mean for all
> blacks.
This tells me nothing regarding the thesis
> • Whites from families with incomes below $10,000
> had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points
> higher than blacks whose families had incomes of
> between $80,000 and $100,000.
This is persuasive
> • Blacks from families with incomes of more than
> $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points
> below the mean score for whites from all income
> levels,
This tells me little.
> 139 points below the mean score of whites
> from families at the same income level, and 10
> points below the average score of white students
> from families whose income was less than $10,000.
This is persuasive
I'd like to read the whole article is there a link?
-------------------------------------------------------
> • Whites from families with incomes of less than
> $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129
> points higher than the national mean for all
> blacks.
This tells me nothing regarding the thesis
> • Whites from families with incomes below $10,000
> had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points
> higher than blacks whose families had incomes of
> between $80,000 and $100,000.
This is persuasive
> • Blacks from families with incomes of more than
> $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points
> below the mean score for whites from all income
> levels,
This tells me little.
> 139 points below the mean score of whites
> from families at the same income level, and 10
> points below the average score of white students
> from families whose income was less than $10,000.
This is persuasive
I'd like to read the whole article is there a link?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 01:08PM
Thomas,
What basis to you have for saying Fox Mill is definitely coming to South Lakes? Isn't that an inflammatory statement? I really don't think any decision has been made yet. Unless you know something that no one else does.
What basis to you have for saying Fox Mill is definitely coming to South Lakes? Isn't that an inflammatory statement? I really don't think any decision has been made yet. Unless you know something that no one else does.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 02:12PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What basis to you have for saying Fox Mill is
> definitely coming to South Lakes? Isn't that an
> inflammatory statement? I really don't think any
> decision has been made yet. Unless you know
> something that no one else does.
Because Gibson made a commitment to the North Point people in January 22, 2003 as reported by Jennifer Lesinski, a copy of that story is in the post from taxpayer above.
Because he made sure that the boundary study area did not include Langley.
Because Butler and most of his staff have said so.
Because 25 years of dealing with Fairfax County government should have taught me that the public participation process is a potemkin village and a kabuki dance to make it seem like public officials are open to public input when in fact the outcomes are pre-determined by the staff and the elected officials long before the notices are posted. I was a total fool to ever think this boundary re-alignment process would be any different.
The only variable is if his craveness buckles to pressure from central staff and Fox MIll and Crossfied parents and gives McNair, Floris or both, to SL instead.
Clearly the continued deterioration of the kids experience at SL will proceed unabated.
Thanks Stu.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What basis to you have for saying Fox Mill is
> definitely coming to South Lakes? Isn't that an
> inflammatory statement? I really don't think any
> decision has been made yet. Unless you know
> something that no one else does.
Because Gibson made a commitment to the North Point people in January 22, 2003 as reported by Jennifer Lesinski, a copy of that story is in the post from taxpayer above.
Because he made sure that the boundary study area did not include Langley.
Because Butler and most of his staff have said so.
Because 25 years of dealing with Fairfax County government should have taught me that the public participation process is a potemkin village and a kabuki dance to make it seem like public officials are open to public input when in fact the outcomes are pre-determined by the staff and the elected officials long before the notices are posted. I was a total fool to ever think this boundary re-alignment process would be any different.
The only variable is if his craveness buckles to pressure from central staff and Fox MIll and Crossfied parents and gives McNair, Floris or both, to SL instead.
Clearly the continued deterioration of the kids experience at SL will proceed unabated.
Thanks Stu.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 23, 2007 02:45PM
Thomas More - the data from JBHE is only a tiny sliver of what is out there - and if you look at it - you will come to the same depressing conclusion every other fair thinker comes to. Of course, I am being a bit argumentative here - so maybe you should just look at the data. You obviously are thoughtful - you will see.
Link: www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
Look around at the NAEP data too - it is even more compelling. And there is really more out there - a depressing trove of results.
Again, please be clear that I am not in any way exulting at these results. But they are key to understanding what drives both educators and politicians in the decisions they make. And it is really relevant right now - because people - good and well meaning people - by the way - are suggesting with increasing frequency that affirmative action and similar programs ought to be parsed out based on socio-economic status as opposed to race - all fine and well - but those seeking that course ought to be careful what they seek. It would result mostly in poorer Asians and Whites receiving opportunities - maybe a good thing - even the right thing to do - but we shouldn't suffer under the delusion that any form of socio-economic preferences or policy making will resolve the racial achievement gap and the significant problems associated with it. (Ask college admissions officers - socio-economic preferences decrease their definition of diversity - they don't like it). And this means the South Lakes situation - and I admit the concerns of the Oakton and Madison parents are overblown - rational and to a degree understandable, but overblown - will continue- at least until we get the specific problems of cultural infirmity out in the open and attack them, even if it goes against the orthodoxies that remain from the halcyon days of the civil rights era.
Link: www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
Look around at the NAEP data too - it is even more compelling. And there is really more out there - a depressing trove of results.
Again, please be clear that I am not in any way exulting at these results. But they are key to understanding what drives both educators and politicians in the decisions they make. And it is really relevant right now - because people - good and well meaning people - by the way - are suggesting with increasing frequency that affirmative action and similar programs ought to be parsed out based on socio-economic status as opposed to race - all fine and well - but those seeking that course ought to be careful what they seek. It would result mostly in poorer Asians and Whites receiving opportunities - maybe a good thing - even the right thing to do - but we shouldn't suffer under the delusion that any form of socio-economic preferences or policy making will resolve the racial achievement gap and the significant problems associated with it. (Ask college admissions officers - socio-economic preferences decrease their definition of diversity - they don't like it). And this means the South Lakes situation - and I admit the concerns of the Oakton and Madison parents are overblown - rational and to a degree understandable, but overblown - will continue- at least until we get the specific problems of cultural infirmity out in the open and attack them, even if it goes against the orthodoxies that remain from the halcyon days of the civil rights era.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 02:49PM
Thomas-- Why would central staff care about Fox Mill or Crossfield?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:10PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas-- Why would central staff care about Fox
> Mill or Crossfield?
Because the central staff is already complaining about the pressure from the objections of parents Fox Mill and Crossfields which is all ready at a very high level. Just look at the PTA websites of the two schools.
McNair parents won't be heavily involved thi sprocess. Their PTA is moribund. Look at their web site. So shoving McNair to SL is the course of least resistance.
The central staff just wants to get this over with and get back to whatever they do with the rest of their time.
Thanks Stu
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas-- Why would central staff care about Fox
> Mill or Crossfield?
Because the central staff is already complaining about the pressure from the objections of parents Fox Mill and Crossfields which is all ready at a very high level. Just look at the PTA websites of the two schools.
McNair parents won't be heavily involved thi sprocess. Their PTA is moribund. Look at their web site. So shoving McNair to SL is the course of least resistance.
The central staff just wants to get this over with and get back to whatever they do with the rest of their time.
Thanks Stu
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:13PM
How do we SL parents voice our concerns to Central Staff? We have equally valid concerns and we should be heard too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:19PM
Capy,
The Madison island is not in Stu's district. It's in Dranesville, Janie's district.
South Lakes parents need not do anything if they want the boundaries of South Lakes expanded. You have nothing to worry about, Stu will make it happen when he's re elected. South Lakes is his school, he'll get whatever he wants. Just make your views known to him.
The Madison island is not in Stu's district. It's in Dranesville, Janie's district.
South Lakes parents need not do anything if they want the boundaries of South Lakes expanded. You have nothing to worry about, Stu will make it happen when he's re elected. South Lakes is his school, he'll get whatever he wants. Just make your views known to him.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:24PM
Thomas More,
Remember that staff works for Stu. They have to do what he wants, regardless of the fussing from Fox Mill, Crossfield, Aldrin and Armstrong. It's staff's job to deal with the whining. Stu has to deal with it too, or choose not to. Stu decides what is done to his schools. However, if some neighborhoods are causing too much of a fuss, Stu could decide to grab some other neighborhoods. Since Stu has always wanted Aldrin and Armstrong and the island, I'd have to think that their move is a done deal. Ditto Fox Mill. Crossfield? I don't know. McNair? From what Stu has said, they'll go either to Herndon or South Lakes. I can't speculate on which. It's all up to Stu, assuming his re election. If Kathy and Stu are not re elected, then it's all back to square one with all ideas on the table.
Remember that staff works for Stu. They have to do what he wants, regardless of the fussing from Fox Mill, Crossfield, Aldrin and Armstrong. It's staff's job to deal with the whining. Stu has to deal with it too, or choose not to. Stu decides what is done to his schools. However, if some neighborhoods are causing too much of a fuss, Stu could decide to grab some other neighborhoods. Since Stu has always wanted Aldrin and Armstrong and the island, I'd have to think that their move is a done deal. Ditto Fox Mill. Crossfield? I don't know. McNair? From what Stu has said, they'll go either to Herndon or South Lakes. I can't speculate on which. It's all up to Stu, assuming his re election. If Kathy and Stu are not re elected, then it's all back to square one with all ideas on the table.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:30PM
Thomas More said
"Because Gibson made a commitment to the North Point people in January 22, 2003 as reported by Jennifer Lesinski, a copy of that story is in the post from taxpayer above.
Because he made sure that the boundary study area did not include Langley.
Because Butler and most of his staff have said so.
Because 25 years of dealing with Fairfax County government should have taught me that the public participation process is a potemkin village and a kabuki dance to make it seem like public officials are open to public input when in fact the outcomes are pre-determined by the staff and the elected officials long before the notices are posted. I was a total fool to ever think this boundary re-alignment process would be any different.
The only variable is if his craveness buckles to pressure from central staff and Fox MIll and Crossfied parents and gives McNair, Floris or both, to SL instead.
Clearly the continued deterioration of the kids experience at SL will proceed unabated.
Thanks Stu."
Spot on Thomas. I think we all know that the deals have been made and the boundaries decided. Very little, if anything at all, will be changed before the vote in February. As long as Stu doesn't lose this election, it's a done deal.
I am sorry. I truly am.
"Because Gibson made a commitment to the North Point people in January 22, 2003 as reported by Jennifer Lesinski, a copy of that story is in the post from taxpayer above.
Because he made sure that the boundary study area did not include Langley.
Because Butler and most of his staff have said so.
Because 25 years of dealing with Fairfax County government should have taught me that the public participation process is a potemkin village and a kabuki dance to make it seem like public officials are open to public input when in fact the outcomes are pre-determined by the staff and the elected officials long before the notices are posted. I was a total fool to ever think this boundary re-alignment process would be any different.
The only variable is if his craveness buckles to pressure from central staff and Fox MIll and Crossfied parents and gives McNair, Floris or both, to SL instead.
Clearly the continued deterioration of the kids experience at SL will proceed unabated.
Thanks Stu."
Spot on Thomas. I think we all know that the deals have been made and the boundaries decided. Very little, if anything at all, will be changed before the vote in February. As long as Stu doesn't lose this election, it's a done deal.
I am sorry. I truly am.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Chantilly Parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:35PM
Thanks for all the very interesting information.
Can anyone tell me how Chantilly fits into this picture?
Can anyone tell me how Chantilly fits into this picture?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:38PM
I hope none of this happens and things stay the way they are.
---
McNair is the hot potato. (Assuming they are serious about reducing Westfield.)
I think they will take it from Westfield and they'd have to give it to one of the two bording schools: South Lakes or Herndon. If it goes to Herndon, South Lakes will grab Aldrin and probably Fox Mill. (Herndon is screwed.)
If it goes to South Lakes they still probably help themselves to Fox Mill to balance things out. Oakton lose Fox Mill and pick up the Navy kids (from Chantilly) that don't already go there.
---
I hope none of this happens and things stay the way they are.
---
McNair is the hot potato. (Assuming they are serious about reducing Westfield.)
I think they will take it from Westfield and they'd have to give it to one of the two bording schools: South Lakes or Herndon. If it goes to Herndon, South Lakes will grab Aldrin and probably Fox Mill. (Herndon is screwed.)
If it goes to South Lakes they still probably help themselves to Fox Mill to balance things out. Oakton lose Fox Mill and pick up the Navy kids (from Chantilly) that don't already go there.
---
I hope none of this happens and things stay the way they are.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:41PM
Thomas More said:
>>>The prospect of those spoiled brats having drag races up Twin Branches or Soapstone to and from SL in their Daddy's BMW scares me to death.<<<
You seem to have a fair amount of prejudice against those with money. How sad.
>>>The prospect of those spoiled brats having drag races up Twin Branches or Soapstone to and from SL in their Daddy's BMW scares me to death.<<<
You seem to have a fair amount of prejudice against those with money. How sad.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:43PM
Here is one of my favorite columns, discussing the black/white-Asian gap, written by my favorite educator/economist. BTW, Williams is Black.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/00/losing.html
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/00/losing.html
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Chantilly Parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:45PM
So no other part of the Chantilly district would be affected, just the Navy kids?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 23, 2007 03:48PM
just a guess, nothing to base it on
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:01PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More said:
> >>>The prospect of those spoiled brats having drag
> races up Twin Branches or Soapstone to and from SL
> in their Daddy's BMW scares me to death.<<<
>
> You seem to have a fair amount of prejudice
> against those with money. How sad.
It s not prejudice if it's based on actual experience. There has been a serious drag racing problem on South Lakes Drive immediately after school for several years which the principal and the police have done little to stop. The culprits are almost exclusively driving expensive cars like BMWs, Audis and the like. At least the kids from Stonegate don't drive to school because they can't afford the $150 permit.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More said:
> >>>The prospect of those spoiled brats having drag
> races up Twin Branches or Soapstone to and from SL
> in their Daddy's BMW scares me to death.<<<
>
> You seem to have a fair amount of prejudice
> against those with money. How sad.
It s not prejudice if it's based on actual experience. There has been a serious drag racing problem on South Lakes Drive immediately after school for several years which the principal and the police have done little to stop. The culprits are almost exclusively driving expensive cars like BMWs, Audis and the like. At least the kids from Stonegate don't drive to school because they can't afford the $150 permit.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
carol
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:03PM
I heard possibly chantilly highlands going to south lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:04PM
I say all go take a break and watch the movie "Brazil."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:09PM
carol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard possibly chantilly highlands going to
> south lakes.
How many elementary schools between chantilly highlands and south lakes? They can't all be going to south lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard possibly chantilly highlands going to
> south lakes.
How many elementary schools between chantilly highlands and south lakes? They can't all be going to south lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:15PM
Don't think Chantilly Highlands would be going to SL--haven't heard that scenario.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:18PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Remember that staff works for Stu. They have to
> do what he wants, regardless of the fussing from
> Fox Mill, Crossfield, Aldrin and Armstrong. It's
> staff's job to deal with the whining. Stu has to
> deal with it too, or choose not to. Stu decides
> what is done to his schools. However, if some
> neighborhoods are causing too much of a fuss, Stu
> could decide to grab some other neighborhoods.
> Since Stu has always wanted Aldrin and Armstrong
> and the island, I'd have to think that their move
> is a done deal. Ditto Fox Mill. Crossfield? I
> don't know. McNair? From what Stu has said,
> they'll go either to Herndon or South Lakes. I
> can't speculate on which. It's all up to Stu,
> assuming his re election. If Kathy and Stu are
> not re elected, then it's all back to square one
> with all ideas on the table.
Neen--your math is a little funny. We only have room for 500-700 kids.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Remember that staff works for Stu. They have to
> do what he wants, regardless of the fussing from
> Fox Mill, Crossfield, Aldrin and Armstrong. It's
> staff's job to deal with the whining. Stu has to
> deal with it too, or choose not to. Stu decides
> what is done to his schools. However, if some
> neighborhoods are causing too much of a fuss, Stu
> could decide to grab some other neighborhoods.
> Since Stu has always wanted Aldrin and Armstrong
> and the island, I'd have to think that their move
> is a done deal. Ditto Fox Mill. Crossfield? I
> don't know. McNair? From what Stu has said,
> they'll go either to Herndon or South Lakes. I
> can't speculate on which. It's all up to Stu,
> assuming his re election. If Kathy and Stu are
> not re elected, then it's all back to square one
> with all ideas on the table.
Neen--your math is a little funny. We only have room for 500-700 kids.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:23PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Remember that staff works for Stu.
Not in the staff's mind. Stu and all of us are just inconveniences that have to be managed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Remember that staff works for Stu.
Not in the staff's mind. Stu and all of us are just inconveniences that have to be managed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:33PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is one of my favorite columns, discussing the
> black/white-Asian gap, written by my favorite
> educator/economist. BTW, Williams is Black.
>
> http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/artic
> les/00/losing.html
Thanks, Neen for Prof. Williams' article. Using facts, he describes very well the dilemma we all confront.
Great monograph! Should be required reading for all in this thread IMHO.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is one of my favorite columns, discussing the
> black/white-Asian gap, written by my favorite
> educator/economist. BTW, Williams is Black.
>
> http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/artic
> les/00/losing.html
Thanks, Neen for Prof. Williams' article. Using facts, he describes very well the dilemma we all confront.
Great monograph! Should be required reading for all in this thread IMHO.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:53PM
Now if you want a reason to stay away from South Lakes how about the fact that its’ principal could care less about the kids. An example:
Last year South Lakes had a talent show during the school day and Butler closed the show with a rendition of the Hendrix version of the National Anthem. I guess the strategy was that ending with the National Anthem was a cheap way for our principal to get a standing ovation and get the assembly on its feet and back to class. It was great, although the teachers were too out of it to have the kids stand.
Several weeks before the South Lakes sting orchestra had also given a concert during the school day. The first chair percussionist was not only talented but a striking red haired young women. It’s rare for women to choose percussion because its such a "boys" thing and the boys are very territorial. It’s absolutely unprecedented for a girl to get first chair. But there she was in all her glory giving an outstanding performance. Bruce was asked who she was. He had no idea. He had been an assistant principal assigned to that class before taking over as principal after Railly left. He's been at South Lakes at least since 1999. That class had less than 300 kids in its main stream student body and after 4 years of being responsible for the class, Bruce had no idea who this striking young talented women was.
At the time it happened I wrote it off to Bruce being more of a jock than a musician. Bruce had played basketball at South Lakes and tended to stand under the goalposts during home football games schmoozing Wendall Byrd, SL’s basketball coach, instead of interacting with the community in the stands and sidelines.
But when I heard him perform a very good rendition Hendrix’ National Anthem that excuse just died and my disappointment was overwhelming.
I can't believe this guy is that out of it.
Last year South Lakes had a talent show during the school day and Butler closed the show with a rendition of the Hendrix version of the National Anthem. I guess the strategy was that ending with the National Anthem was a cheap way for our principal to get a standing ovation and get the assembly on its feet and back to class. It was great, although the teachers were too out of it to have the kids stand.
Several weeks before the South Lakes sting orchestra had also given a concert during the school day. The first chair percussionist was not only talented but a striking red haired young women. It’s rare for women to choose percussion because its such a "boys" thing and the boys are very territorial. It’s absolutely unprecedented for a girl to get first chair. But there she was in all her glory giving an outstanding performance. Bruce was asked who she was. He had no idea. He had been an assistant principal assigned to that class before taking over as principal after Railly left. He's been at South Lakes at least since 1999. That class had less than 300 kids in its main stream student body and after 4 years of being responsible for the class, Bruce had no idea who this striking young talented women was.
At the time it happened I wrote it off to Bruce being more of a jock than a musician. Bruce had played basketball at South Lakes and tended to stand under the goalposts during home football games schmoozing Wendall Byrd, SL’s basketball coach, instead of interacting with the community in the stands and sidelines.
But when I heard him perform a very good rendition Hendrix’ National Anthem that excuse just died and my disappointment was overwhelming.
I can't believe this guy is that out of it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 23, 2007 04:58PM
earth to tm: put down the crack pipe and no one will get hurt
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
reston
()
Date: October 23, 2007 05:19PM
Bruce Butler a jock? HA!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 05:23PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> earth to tm: put down the crack pipe and no one
> will get hurt
What on earth are you talking about? Was this an attempt at humor?
-------------------------------------------------------
> earth to tm: put down the crack pipe and no one
> will get hurt
What on earth are you talking about? Was this an attempt at humor?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 05:26PM
reston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruce Butler a jock? HA!
Seriously what make you say that?
(Not so seriously) Maybe he's just a jock-sniffer.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruce Butler a jock? HA!
Seriously what make you say that?
(Not so seriously) Maybe he's just a jock-sniffer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Don't Tread on Me
()
Date: October 23, 2007 05:42PM
Patriot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More - Truth Seeker is correct - the
> "market" value is how much someone is willing to
> pay for your house and that's basically the only
> value that matters when you're selling your house.
> The appraisal may not change much from one area
> to another but the list price sure will.
>
> I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out
> there right now holding off on purchasing until
> the redistricting decision is made. It really
> does matter to people.
>
> Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble
> abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
Right on Patriot! Redistricting will have a major impact on property values.
Seems to me, those who lose property value by redistricting have been economically harmed by a perverse form of eminent domain. If so, compensation is appropriate.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More - Truth Seeker is correct - the
> "market" value is how much someone is willing to
> pay for your house and that's basically the only
> value that matters when you're selling your house.
> The appraisal may not change much from one area
> to another but the list price sure will.
>
> I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out
> there right now holding off on purchasing until
> the redistricting decision is made. It really
> does matter to people.
>
> Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble
> abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
Right on Patriot! Redistricting will have a major impact on property values.
Seems to me, those who lose property value by redistricting have been economically harmed by a perverse form of eminent domain. If so, compensation is appropriate.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 23, 2007 05:55PM
Don't Tread on Me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Patriot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More - Truth Seeker is correct - the
> > "market" value is how much someone is willing
> to
> > pay for your house and that's basically the
> only
> > value that matters when you're selling your
> house.
> > The appraisal may not change much from one
> area
> > to another but the list price sure will.
> >
> > I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out
> > there right now holding off on purchasing until
> > the redistricting decision is made. It really
> > does matter to people.
> >
> > Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble
> > abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
>
>
> Right on Patriot! Redistricting will have a major
> impact on property values.
>
> Seems to me, those who lose property value by
> redistricting have been economically harmed by a
> perverse form of eminent domain. If so,
> compensation is appropriate.
I sue local governments for a living. You've got no shot see my earlier post.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Patriot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More - Truth Seeker is correct - the
> > "market" value is how much someone is willing
> to
> > pay for your house and that's basically the
> only
> > value that matters when you're selling your
> house.
> > The appraisal may not change much from one
> area
> > to another but the list price sure will.
> >
> > I'm a real estate agent. There are buyers out
> > there right now holding off on purchasing until
> > the redistricting decision is made. It really
> > does matter to people.
> >
> > Oh and TM, I chose to buy my extremely humble
> > abode in Oak Hill/Herndon, not Reston...
>
>
> Right on Patriot! Redistricting will have a major
> impact on property values.
>
> Seems to me, those who lose property value by
> redistricting have been economically harmed by a
> perverse form of eminent domain. If so,
> compensation is appropriate.
I sue local governments for a living. You've got no shot see my earlier post.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 23, 2007 09:48PM
Fact - just came from a community meeting regarding this HOT topic, the first and most important thing that the voters from CHANTILLY/OAKTON/WESTFIELD/HERNDON can do is get out the flyers available from:
www.StopRD.org
the candidates have all been polled and this group has the answers the candidates provided and how they will vote when this comes before them in january. Please vist this web site for all the information you will need, it will give you fact not fiction. What ever your reason for not wanting redistricting this group will provide you with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to do is get out and vote.
Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org for your valuable information. Pick up a stack of flyers(they are already made) they have thousands available for your district, bring them to your home football game Friday night and cover the windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do it they even have a form that authorizes this as community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @ OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you can get "two birds with one stone" at the game. When it comes to this issue there is no loser at the football game as long as every car is given a flyer.
LITZENBERGER - sully
Braunlich - at large
Costantine - at large
Raney - at large
VOTE NOVEMBER 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
www.StopRD.org
the candidates have all been polled and this group has the answers the candidates provided and how they will vote when this comes before them in january. Please vist this web site for all the information you will need, it will give you fact not fiction. What ever your reason for not wanting redistricting this group will provide you with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to do is get out and vote.
Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org for your valuable information. Pick up a stack of flyers(they are already made) they have thousands available for your district, bring them to your home football game Friday night and cover the windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do it they even have a form that authorizes this as community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @ OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you can get "two birds with one stone" at the game. When it comes to this issue there is no loser at the football game as long as every car is given a flyer.
LITZENBERGER - sully
Braunlich - at large
Costantine - at large
Raney - at large
VOTE NOVEMBER 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 23, 2007 09:49PM
truth seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact - just came from a community meeting
> regarding this HOT topic, the first and most
> important thing that the voters from
> CHANTILLY/OAKTON/WESTFIELD/HERNDON can do is get
> out the flyers available from:
>
> www.StopRD.org
>
> the candidates have all been polled and this group
> has the answers the candidates provided and how
> they will vote when this comes before them in
> january. Please vist this web site for all the
> information you will need, it will give you fact
> not fiction. What ever your reason for not
> wanting redistricting this group will provide you
> with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to do
> is get out and vote.
>
> Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we
> learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org for
> your valuable information. Pick up a stack of
> flyers(they are already made) they have thousands
> available for your district, bring them to your
> home football game Friday night and cover the
> windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do it
> they even have a form that authorizes this as
> community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @
> OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you can
> get "two birds with one stone" at the game. When
> it comes to this issue there is no loser at the
> football game as long as every car is given a
> flyer.
>
> LITZENBERGER - sully
> Braunlich - at large
> Costantine - at large
> Raney - at large
>
> VOTE NOVEMBER
> 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!
HAD TO POST IT AGAIN TO REENFORCE THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact - just came from a community meeting
> regarding this HOT topic, the first and most
> important thing that the voters from
> CHANTILLY/OAKTON/WESTFIELD/HERNDON can do is get
> out the flyers available from:
>
> www.StopRD.org
>
> the candidates have all been polled and this group
> has the answers the candidates provided and how
> they will vote when this comes before them in
> january. Please vist this web site for all the
> information you will need, it will give you fact
> not fiction. What ever your reason for not
> wanting redistricting this group will provide you
> with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to do
> is get out and vote.
>
> Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we
> learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org for
> your valuable information. Pick up a stack of
> flyers(they are already made) they have thousands
> available for your district, bring them to your
> home football game Friday night and cover the
> windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do it
> they even have a form that authorizes this as
> community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @
> OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you can
> get "two birds with one stone" at the game. When
> it comes to this issue there is no loser at the
> football game as long as every car is given a
> flyer.
>
> LITZENBERGER - sully
> Braunlich - at large
> Costantine - at large
> Raney - at large
>
> VOTE NOVEMBER
> 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!
HAD TO POST IT AGAIN TO REENFORCE THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 23, 2007 09:50PM
truth seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> truth seeker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fact - just came from a community meeting
> > regarding this HOT topic, the first and most
> > important thing that the voters from
> > CHANTILLY/OAKTON/WESTFIELD/HERNDON can do is
> get
> > out the flyers available from:
> >
> > www.StopRD.org
> >
> > the candidates have all been polled and this
> group
> > has the answers the candidates provided and how
> > they will vote when this comes before them in
> > january. Please vist this web site for all the
> > information you will need, it will give you
> fact
> > not fiction. What ever your reason for not
> > wanting redistricting this group will provide
> you
> > with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to
> do
> > is get out and vote.
> >
> > Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we
> > learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org
> for
> > your valuable information. Pick up a stack of
> > flyers(they are already made) they have
> thousands
> > available for your district, bring them to your
> > home football game Friday night and cover the
> > windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do
> it
> > they even have a form that authorizes this as
> > community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @
> > OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you
> can
> > get "two birds with one stone" at the game.
> When
> > it comes to this issue there is no loser at the
> > football game as long as every car is given a
> > flyer.
> >
> > LITZENBERGER - sully
> > Braunlich - at large
> > Costantine - at large
> > Raney - at large
> >
> > VOTE NOVEMBER
> >
> 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > !!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> HAD TO POST IT AGAIN TO REENFORCE THE
> POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ONE MORE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------
> truth seeker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fact - just came from a community meeting
> > regarding this HOT topic, the first and most
> > important thing that the voters from
> > CHANTILLY/OAKTON/WESTFIELD/HERNDON can do is
> get
> > out the flyers available from:
> >
> > www.StopRD.org
> >
> > the candidates have all been polled and this
> group
> > has the answers the candidates provided and how
> > they will vote when this comes before them in
> > january. Please vist this web site for all the
> > information you will need, it will give you
> fact
> > not fiction. What ever your reason for not
> > wanting redistricting this group will provide
> you
> > with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to
> do
> > is get out and vote.
> >
> > Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we
> > learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org
> for
> > your valuable information. Pick up a stack of
> > flyers(they are already made) they have
> thousands
> > available for your district, bring them to your
> > home football game Friday night and cover the
> > windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do
> it
> > they even have a form that authorizes this as
> > community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @
> > OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you
> can
> > get "two birds with one stone" at the game.
> When
> > it comes to this issue there is no loser at the
> > football game as long as every car is given a
> > flyer.
> >
> > LITZENBERGER - sully
> > Braunlich - at large
> > Costantine - at large
> > Raney - at large
> >
> > VOTE NOVEMBER
> >
> 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > !!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> HAD TO POST IT AGAIN TO REENFORCE THE
> POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ONE MORE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 23, 2007 10:01PM
I'm sure Kathy will be there with her's too... have the balls to hand them out in person.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 24, 2007 01:23AM
No problem! You can bet that people will be there to pass them out in person. They've already passed out 10,000 of them. They're hitting 6,000 homes too.
Thanks Truth Seeker!
Thanks Truth Seeker!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 24, 2007 01:40AM
Yet another example of Bruce Butler putting the interests of the instructional staff ahead of the students: A sophomore with a reading disability was assigned to a Basic Skills and Remediation (BSR) class, the purpose of which was to give the student remedial assistance in their specific area of need. Unfortunately for the student, the teacher into whose BSR class the student was assigned had no training in language arts but was a science teacher. The teacher knew nothing about language arts and the student was left to do her home in BSR with little on no effort to remediate the language art problems that caused the placement in the first place. When the parents finally discovered this violation of IDEA and confronted Butler that the BSR class had become a “glorified study hall” Butler’s response was that “that’s all that BSR was supposed to be.” When the parents asked why a student with a language arts problem was assigned to a science teacher Butler’s reply was that it needed to be done to fill up that teacher’s class otherwise the teacher would have been required to spend part of the day at another school.
The needs of the student were abandoned to avoid inconveniencing a teacher.
More later
The needs of the student were abandoned to avoid inconveniencing a teacher.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 24, 2007 04:12AM
>>>Seems to me, those who lose property value by redistricting have been economically harmed by a perverse form of eminent domain. If so, compensation is appropriate.<<<
Wow! Good point!
Thomas, the situation you describe happens all the time. The goal of any bureaucracy is to sustain itself and keep it's members happy. The focus isn't on the customer, it's on themselves, what they want. That's how our entire school system works. The focus has never, ever, been on the students or parents, but on the staff, keeping them happy, allowing them to have their little fad projects and fad training, more and more staff so they can all do less work, etc. That's why we constantly hire MORE support staff for fewer students and fewer teachers. It's all about the bureaucracy and what works best for THEM.
Wow! Good point!
Thomas, the situation you describe happens all the time. The goal of any bureaucracy is to sustain itself and keep it's members happy. The focus isn't on the customer, it's on themselves, what they want. That's how our entire school system works. The focus has never, ever, been on the students or parents, but on the staff, keeping them happy, allowing them to have their little fad projects and fad training, more and more staff so they can all do less work, etc. That's why we constantly hire MORE support staff for fewer students and fewer teachers. It's all about the bureaucracy and what works best for THEM.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Patriot
()
Date: October 24, 2007 09:50AM
All this speculation about which schools will be forced to attend SL should only strengthen our determination that NO SCHOOLS will be forced to go anywhere. The only way we can do this is to VOTE STU AND KATHY OUT and vote those in that will listen to what their constituents want.
And I agree with you Don't Tread on Me - we should be compensated but that will be cold day in hell!
And I agree with you Don't Tread on Me - we should be compensated but that will be cold day in hell!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 24, 2007 12:50PM
Perverse form of Eminent Domain:
When the Metro comes to Reston, and property values near the new stations will increase, but not as much because all the travelers from adjoining communities will further clog roads and so they won't go as high as we want them to go before we retire and move.
Ergo, our property values are decreased because of a government bureaucracy's decision (to build the Metro but not the adequate supporting road and parking infrastructure).,....and we want to be compensated for the resultant economic harm of X appreciation, not X + Y appreciation, of our home values (as well as for pain and suffering caused by slower journeys to the movies at Town Center or Worldgate, or for increased noise audible from the paths).
Leaflet that (should I reprint this thrice?).
When the Metro comes to Reston, and property values near the new stations will increase, but not as much because all the travelers from adjoining communities will further clog roads and so they won't go as high as we want them to go before we retire and move.
Ergo, our property values are decreased because of a government bureaucracy's decision (to build the Metro but not the adequate supporting road and parking infrastructure).,....and we want to be compensated for the resultant economic harm of X appreciation, not X + Y appreciation, of our home values (as well as for pain and suffering caused by slower journeys to the movies at Town Center or Worldgate, or for increased noise audible from the paths).
Leaflet that (should I reprint this thrice?).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
voter
()
Date: October 24, 2007 12:58PM
SLHS Padre, no don't repeat it 3 times it is not worth it. We really don't want to hear all about RA's problems you all built bought and live there you deal with it. leave us the F&%$ alone. Keep your schoola dn teh metro and whatever else will fit in to your "planned community". OH yea great planning!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 24, 2007 01:25PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Thomas, the situation you describe happens all the
> time. The goal of any bureaucracy is to sustain
> itself and keep it's members happy. The focus
> isn't on the customer, it's on themselves, what
> they want. That's how our entire school system
> works. The focus has never, ever, been on the
> students or parents, but on the staff, keeping
> them happy, allowing them to have their little fad
> projects and fad training, more and more staff so
> they can all do less work, etc. That's why we
> constantly hire MORE support staff for fewer
> students and fewer teachers. It's all about the
> bureaucracy and what works best for THEM.
Is that how it works at TJ also?
-------------------------------------------------------
Thomas, the situation you describe happens all the
> time. The goal of any bureaucracy is to sustain
> itself and keep it's members happy. The focus
> isn't on the customer, it's on themselves, what
> they want. That's how our entire school system
> works. The focus has never, ever, been on the
> students or parents, but on the staff, keeping
> them happy, allowing them to have their little fad
> projects and fad training, more and more staff so
> they can all do less work, etc. That's why we
> constantly hire MORE support staff for fewer
> students and fewer teachers. It's all about the
> bureaucracy and what works best for THEM.
Is that how it works at TJ also?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 02:09PM
voter,
I think SLHS padre is trying to make the point that you bought in Fairfax County, which does redistrict now and then, live with it. If you want to not be redistricted, move to pa or nj, where school districts are much smaller and don't get redistricted. Life happens.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2007 02:10PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I think SLHS padre is trying to make the point that you bought in Fairfax County, which does redistrict now and then, live with it. If you want to not be redistricted, move to pa or nj, where school districts are much smaller and don't get redistricted. Life happens.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2007 02:10PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 24, 2007 03:05PM
Yes Padre, when the metro to Reston is completed, in the next 10 to 20 years, those high rise condos will be worth more. More singles will want to move to Reston.
I fail to see what bearing this has on the current school board move to force students into South Lakes.
Why can't the community decide what happens with South Lakes? Why can't the community discuss options like magnet programs or redistricting even more of the county, like Langley schools? Why do people get stuck with whatever Stu Gibson wants? Why is there no discussion of alternatives? Why does Gibson get to rule so much of the county, even beyond Reston, into Oakton and Herndon?
I fail to see what bearing this has on the current school board move to force students into South Lakes.
Why can't the community decide what happens with South Lakes? Why can't the community discuss options like magnet programs or redistricting even more of the county, like Langley schools? Why do people get stuck with whatever Stu Gibson wants? Why is there no discussion of alternatives? Why does Gibson get to rule so much of the county, even beyond Reston, into Oakton and Herndon?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 03:41PM
Neen,
For once I agree with you. I'm hoping the boundary meetings give everyone a chance to be heard. And the election will determine whether Stu will get what he wants.
For once I agree with you. I'm hoping the boundary meetings give everyone a chance to be heard. And the election will determine whether Stu will get what he wants.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 24, 2007 05:19PM
Interesting vignette from last night at South Lakes - parents from all other schools in the Liberty District were attending an athletic event - lots and lots of construction there - actually nice to see how hard the contractors were working and yet being respectful and polite in recognition of the parents and visitors flooding the place. But posted in the hall - no doubt due to the construction - were several prominent signs reminding the students just where Saturday detention was moved to. Now, these signs were most prominent around the auditorium - which intuits all sorts of vibes that a large room is needed to accomodate this special Saturday event. Who knows how many really attend a Saturday detention session, but it sure gave off a lot of negative vibes to parents that are already touchy about the place.
My own daughter predictably laughed. Look, I am not suggesting anyone should take this seriously, but if the school thinks it gets and unfair image knock, it sure wouldn't hurt to make a little effort to take the signs down.
My own daughter predictably laughed. Look, I am not suggesting anyone should take this seriously, but if the school thinks it gets and unfair image knock, it sure wouldn't hurt to make a little effort to take the signs down.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another SL Parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 05:35PM
I, too, would like to know how best to express our concerns to the Central Office. Because, as a SL parent, I am disgusted and dismayed by the comments I have just read in the 13 pages of this blog. The misinformation that is out there is simply unbelievable. The rumours and negativity is beyond belief. This is simply testament to my fellow baby boomers - concerned mostly with themselves, their financial position and their status. If you were really concerned about your children, you would at least make an attempt to learn about all the wonderful things that have and are happening at SLHS. Bruce Butler is at the top of that list. The parental involvement is next. But more importantly, there are the students - a group of wonderful, dedicated and talented teenagers who have as much too lose by welcoming 6-700 new students to their newly remodeled school as they do to gain. Have you made any attempts to talk to these students? Let them tell you what they think of SL - I think you will be awed.
I can tell you this - as the parent of a student who graduated from SLHS in June and a current SL student, I can't think of any other school in Fairfax I'd rather have had them attend. My college Freshman recently told me that he couldn't have been better prepared for college and was so fortunate to have been able to take advantage of his SL education. My Junior is excelling beyond my dreams.
My fellow baby boomers - you need to get a grip, get over this RD thing, and recognize that SLHS is one diamond in the rough. And, if you end up being one of the boomers who can't figure that one out - you will no longer be keepin' up with the Jones' And where will your property values be then????
I can tell you this - as the parent of a student who graduated from SLHS in June and a current SL student, I can't think of any other school in Fairfax I'd rather have had them attend. My college Freshman recently told me that he couldn't have been better prepared for college and was so fortunate to have been able to take advantage of his SL education. My Junior is excelling beyond my dreams.
My fellow baby boomers - you need to get a grip, get over this RD thing, and recognize that SLHS is one diamond in the rough. And, if you end up being one of the boomers who can't figure that one out - you will no longer be keepin' up with the Jones' And where will your property values be then????
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 24, 2007 05:36PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting vignette from last night at South
> Lakes - parents from all other schools in the
> Liberty District were attending an athletic event
> - lots and lots of construction there - actually
> nice to see how hard the contractors were working
> and yet being respectful and polite in recognition
> of the parents and visitors flooding the place.
> But posted in the hall - no doubt due to the
> construction - were several prominent signs
> reminding the students just where Saturday
> detention was moved to. Now, these signs were
> most prominent around the auditorium - which
> intuits all sorts of vibes that a large room is
> needed to accomodate this special Saturday event.
> Who knows how many really attend a Saturday
> detention session, but it sure gave off a lot of
> negative vibes to parents that are already touchy
> about the place.
> My own daughter predictably laughed. Look, I am
> not suggesting anyone should take this seriously,
> but if the school thinks it gets and unfair image
> knock, it sure wouldn't hurt to make a little
> effort to take the signs down.
I was there last night too and had exactly the same thought. I comforted myself that no one from any of the target schools was in attendance. It is a misperception but a careless act on Butler's part in light of the storm around the boundary issue.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting vignette from last night at South
> Lakes - parents from all other schools in the
> Liberty District were attending an athletic event
> - lots and lots of construction there - actually
> nice to see how hard the contractors were working
> and yet being respectful and polite in recognition
> of the parents and visitors flooding the place.
> But posted in the hall - no doubt due to the
> construction - were several prominent signs
> reminding the students just where Saturday
> detention was moved to. Now, these signs were
> most prominent around the auditorium - which
> intuits all sorts of vibes that a large room is
> needed to accomodate this special Saturday event.
> Who knows how many really attend a Saturday
> detention session, but it sure gave off a lot of
> negative vibes to parents that are already touchy
> about the place.
> My own daughter predictably laughed. Look, I am
> not suggesting anyone should take this seriously,
> but if the school thinks it gets and unfair image
> knock, it sure wouldn't hurt to make a little
> effort to take the signs down.
I was there last night too and had exactly the same thought. I comforted myself that no one from any of the target schools was in attendance. It is a misperception but a careless act on Butler's part in light of the storm around the boundary issue.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 24, 2007 05:59PM
Another SL Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My fellow baby boomers - you need to get a grip,
> get over this RD thing, and recognize that SLHS is
> one diamond in the rough. And, if you end up
> being one of the boomers who can't figure that one
> out - you will no longer be keepin' up with the
> Jones' And where will your property values be
> then????
But you don't get it, Another SL Parent.
Some of us just don't want to move. We are just as happy where we are as you are happy in your world. We don't necessarily fall into your "petty" bucket that you so quickly dumped us. Who's to say we are all headed to SL, some of us may be headed elsewhere just to be headed elsewhere, because that makes a couple of county jerks happy. We are not getting over this RD thing, because it is far more than what you believe it to be.
Peace to your perfect world at SL. And peace to the rest of us at Herndon, Chantilly, Oakton and Westfield. That is what "this RD thing" should be about.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My fellow baby boomers - you need to get a grip,
> get over this RD thing, and recognize that SLHS is
> one diamond in the rough. And, if you end up
> being one of the boomers who can't figure that one
> out - you will no longer be keepin' up with the
> Jones' And where will your property values be
> then????
But you don't get it, Another SL Parent.
Some of us just don't want to move. We are just as happy where we are as you are happy in your world. We don't necessarily fall into your "petty" bucket that you so quickly dumped us. Who's to say we are all headed to SL, some of us may be headed elsewhere just to be headed elsewhere, because that makes a couple of county jerks happy. We are not getting over this RD thing, because it is far more than what you believe it to be.
Peace to your perfect world at SL. And peace to the rest of us at Herndon, Chantilly, Oakton and Westfield. That is what "this RD thing" should be about.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 24, 2007 06:06PM
Right frickin' on, Another SL Parent.
I'll add a defense of Bruce Butler, who is always at that school for every scholastic, musical/theater, and athletic event...but might have botched a name on some occasion or revealed the real reason why a science teacher is handling a study hall. That must not happen at TJ, Flint Hill, or BCC. The guy is fully committed to his job and his kids, and snarky asides like the stuff I read here makes me wonder why any one would ever teach, coach or be an administrator. (And please don't tell me the canard about those that can, do.....)
It's a mean, mean world when everybody's got the gotcha bug.
PS: My otherwise flawless SLHS daughter/student/athlete -- :) -- has detention b/c she had an unexcused absence to study for an IB test. At least she'll know where to go this weekend. If the "cover-up" team had done it's work properly, who knows?
I'll add a defense of Bruce Butler, who is always at that school for every scholastic, musical/theater, and athletic event...but might have botched a name on some occasion or revealed the real reason why a science teacher is handling a study hall. That must not happen at TJ, Flint Hill, or BCC. The guy is fully committed to his job and his kids, and snarky asides like the stuff I read here makes me wonder why any one would ever teach, coach or be an administrator. (And please don't tell me the canard about those that can, do.....)
It's a mean, mean world when everybody's got the gotcha bug.
PS: My otherwise flawless SLHS daughter/student/athlete -- :) -- has detention b/c she had an unexcused absence to study for an IB test. At least she'll know where to go this weekend. If the "cover-up" team had done it's work properly, who knows?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 24, 2007 06:07PM
Saturday Detention? any other surprises? they simply don't have this at other schools
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 24, 2007 06:19PM
To Another SL Parent;
(just a what if case)How would you feel if this took place last year and your senor got to finish at SL and your other child had to go to Oakton/Herndon/Westfield or Chantilly? How would you feel about this if you were not give a choice? and with no forewarning! You bought where you are because you like, I have no beef with that, just like you shhould have no beef with where I bought I like for what got, a nice small house in the school district I want my children to go to, which offers AP classes, which they are taking. I am not interestes in IB good bad or indifferent, I don't plan on moving over seas where all IB classes are transferrable and accepted. What we need from people like you that are worried about what 6 or7 hundred trouble makers from Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly/Herndon will do to SL is get out and VOTE! Get Stu and Kathy out of office and get the right people in. You stay where you are and I stay where I am and it is a win/win. But we have to work together on this not against each others district.
Lastly just an opinion on this, if your principle is that good take plan on having him forever, good people like that are hard to find and very sought after. Thank you!!
Fact - just came from a community meeting
> regarding this HOT topic, the first and most
> important thing that the voters from
> CHANTILLY/OAKTON/WESTFIELD/HERNDON can do is get
> out the flyers available from:
>
> www.StopRD.org
>
> the candidates have all been polled and this group
> has the answers the candidates provided and how
> they will vote when this comes before them in
> january. Please vist this web site for all the
> information you will need, it will give you fact
> not fiction. What ever your reason for not
> wanting redistricting this group will provide you
> with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to do
> is get out and vote.
>
> Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we
> learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org for
> your valuable information. Pick up a stack of
> flyers(they are already made) they have thousands
> available for your district, bring them to your
> home football game Friday night and cover the
> windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do it
> they even have a form that authorizes this as
> community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @
> OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you can
> get "two birds with one stone" at the game. When
> it comes to this issue there is no loser at the
> football game as long as every car is given a
> flyer.
>
> LITZENBERGER - sully
> Braunlich - at large
> Costantine - at large
> Raney - at large
>
> VOTE NOVEMBER
> 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!
HAD TO POST IT AGAIN TO REENFORCE THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(just a what if case)How would you feel if this took place last year and your senor got to finish at SL and your other child had to go to Oakton/Herndon/Westfield or Chantilly? How would you feel about this if you were not give a choice? and with no forewarning! You bought where you are because you like, I have no beef with that, just like you shhould have no beef with where I bought I like for what got, a nice small house in the school district I want my children to go to, which offers AP classes, which they are taking. I am not interestes in IB good bad or indifferent, I don't plan on moving over seas where all IB classes are transferrable and accepted. What we need from people like you that are worried about what 6 or7 hundred trouble makers from Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly/Herndon will do to SL is get out and VOTE! Get Stu and Kathy out of office and get the right people in. You stay where you are and I stay where I am and it is a win/win. But we have to work together on this not against each others district.
Lastly just an opinion on this, if your principle is that good take plan on having him forever, good people like that are hard to find and very sought after. Thank you!!
Fact - just came from a community meeting
> regarding this HOT topic, the first and most
> important thing that the voters from
> CHANTILLY/OAKTON/WESTFIELD/HERNDON can do is get
> out the flyers available from:
>
> www.StopRD.org
>
> the candidates have all been polled and this group
> has the answers the candidates provided and how
> they will vote when this comes before them in
> january. Please vist this web site for all the
> information you will need, it will give you fact
> not fiction. What ever your reason for not
> wanting redistricting this group will provide you
> with the inforation you need. What you HAVE to do
> is get out and vote.
>
> Now my side, GOOD BYE STU, GOOD BYE KATHY, we
> learned so much tonight thank you StopRD.org for
> your valuable information. Pick up a stack of
> flyers(they are already made) they have thousands
> available for your district, bring them to your
> home football game Friday night and cover the
> windshields of all the cars. Have the kids do it
> they even have a form that authorizes this as
> community service for the kids!! WESTFIELD @
> OAKTON this Friday pick up the flyers and you can
> get "two birds with one stone" at the game. When
> it comes to this issue there is no loser at the
> football game as long as every car is given a
> flyer.
>
> LITZENBERGER - sully
> Braunlich - at large
> Costantine - at large
> Raney - at large
>
> VOTE NOVEMBER
> 6th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!
HAD TO POST IT AGAIN TO REENFORCE THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 24, 2007 06:22PM
As far as the redisticting goes it is entirely possible that some South Lakes students could be sent to other schools. Stu Gibson mentioned this at one of the meetings. So this could be very messy for all involved.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 24, 2007 06:23PM
Yikes, truth seeker, it would help if you checked your spelling before you posted.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 24, 2007 06:30PM
Another SL Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I, too, would like to know how best to express our
> concerns to the Central Office.
Changing school board representative appears to be the only choice.
The misinformation that is out there is
> simply unbelievable. The rumours and negativity
> is beyond belief.
Which of my too many posts have been untruthful.
> If you were really concerned about your
> children, you would at least make an attempt to
> learn about all the wonderful things that have and
> are happening at SLHS. Bruce Butler is at the top
> of that list.
Bruce is perpetuating the disfunctionality created by Railly by promoting the incompetent dolts she brought in.
I just heard about a boy who was in a serious car accident on 8/28. His parents tried for 10 days, while he was in the hospital, to arrange for a bus with a wheelchair lift to transport him and his wheelchair the three blocks to SL. Despite calling multiple times per day for ten days, nothing happened and the boy missed the first week of school. Not until the Friday of the first week of school when the dad went to physically demand a bus did anything happen. "Why didn't you call me," said Bruce. "I did your voice mail box was full and wouldn't take anymore messages. I left a message at the front desk." They just don't care at about anybody at SL.
> But more importantly, there are the students - a
> group of wonderful, dedicated and talented
> teenagers who have as much too lose by welcoming
> 6-700 new students to their newly remodeled school
> as they do to gain.
The student body is SL's great and almost its only asset.
> Have you made any attempts to
> talk to these students? Let them tell you what
> they think of SL - I think you will be awed.
Quote from a 2006 SL grad on graduation night "Miss this place are you kidding? - I can't remember a single adult at that school who cared if I lived or died and there was a couple who, I swear, were out to do me harm." That boy is dean list at his college and never had a discipline issue at SL.
> I can tell you this - as the parent of a student
> who graduated from SLHS in June and a current SL
> student, I can't think of any other school in
> Fairfax I'd rather have had them attend. My
> college Freshman recently told me that he couldn't
> have been better prepared for college and was so
> fortunate to have been able to take advantage of
> his SL education. My Junior is excelling beyond my
> dreams.
I happy your children were/are happy at Sl but they are in a minority.
The disfunctionality at SL is endemic. Eleven years of torture will not allow me to let these "emperor has wonderful clothes" comments go by unrebutted. Butler has not changed the disfunctionality of the instructional staff. He gave the worst of them a promotion.
Denying that SL has serious problems won't help us make it better.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I, too, would like to know how best to express our
> concerns to the Central Office.
Changing school board representative appears to be the only choice.
The misinformation that is out there is
> simply unbelievable. The rumours and negativity
> is beyond belief.
Which of my too many posts have been untruthful.
> If you were really concerned about your
> children, you would at least make an attempt to
> learn about all the wonderful things that have and
> are happening at SLHS. Bruce Butler is at the top
> of that list.
Bruce is perpetuating the disfunctionality created by Railly by promoting the incompetent dolts she brought in.
I just heard about a boy who was in a serious car accident on 8/28. His parents tried for 10 days, while he was in the hospital, to arrange for a bus with a wheelchair lift to transport him and his wheelchair the three blocks to SL. Despite calling multiple times per day for ten days, nothing happened and the boy missed the first week of school. Not until the Friday of the first week of school when the dad went to physically demand a bus did anything happen. "Why didn't you call me," said Bruce. "I did your voice mail box was full and wouldn't take anymore messages. I left a message at the front desk." They just don't care at about anybody at SL.
> But more importantly, there are the students - a
> group of wonderful, dedicated and talented
> teenagers who have as much too lose by welcoming
> 6-700 new students to their newly remodeled school
> as they do to gain.
The student body is SL's great and almost its only asset.
> Have you made any attempts to
> talk to these students? Let them tell you what
> they think of SL - I think you will be awed.
Quote from a 2006 SL grad on graduation night "Miss this place are you kidding? - I can't remember a single adult at that school who cared if I lived or died and there was a couple who, I swear, were out to do me harm." That boy is dean list at his college and never had a discipline issue at SL.
> I can tell you this - as the parent of a student
> who graduated from SLHS in June and a current SL
> student, I can't think of any other school in
> Fairfax I'd rather have had them attend. My
> college Freshman recently told me that he couldn't
> have been better prepared for college and was so
> fortunate to have been able to take advantage of
> his SL education. My Junior is excelling beyond my
> dreams.
I happy your children were/are happy at Sl but they are in a minority.
The disfunctionality at SL is endemic. Eleven years of torture will not allow me to let these "emperor has wonderful clothes" comments go by unrebutted. Butler has not changed the disfunctionality of the instructional staff. He gave the worst of them a promotion.
Denying that SL has serious problems won't help us make it better.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 24, 2007 06:37PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a science teacher is handling
> a study hall.
BSR is NOT supposed to be a study hall. Its supposed to be for remediation of a learning disability. An unqualified teacher was assigned to this student who was already grade levels behind in reading through no fault of her own.
Would you want an english teacher trying to teach your child physics just to fill up the english teachers work day?
I'm glad your little angel is doing well at SL. She's the exception.
-------------------------------------------------------
> a science teacher is handling
> a study hall.
BSR is NOT supposed to be a study hall. Its supposed to be for remediation of a learning disability. An unqualified teacher was assigned to this student who was already grade levels behind in reading through no fault of her own.
Would you want an english teacher trying to teach your child physics just to fill up the english teachers work day?
I'm glad your little angel is doing well at SL. She's the exception.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 08:16PM
For you other South Lakes parents out there--
I have given up trying to tell people how great SL really is, and how much parent upon parent I talk to tell me how happy their kids are. I am done with the lies about statistics etc. These people just really like bashing South Lakes because it gives them all something to get their frustration at the situation out.
And Thomas, really, just stop with the Bruce Butler stuff. What, you mean he is not perfect? Well, all the more reason to join the bashers. If we had all the other principals/high schools under a microscope like SL is here, of course we could find all kinds of negative to say. Enough.
So, SL parents, please come to the boundary meetings and bring as many of your friends as you can. That's the only way we won't get railroaded by these folks that profess to only care about their kids, but will then proceed to throw South Lakes kids under the bus. How incredibly self-centered you all are. I looked at the South County blogs before that redistricting happened, and there was not the extreme nastiness I see here.
Also, about the central staff--contact the superintendent?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2007 08:22PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I have given up trying to tell people how great SL really is, and how much parent upon parent I talk to tell me how happy their kids are. I am done with the lies about statistics etc. These people just really like bashing South Lakes because it gives them all something to get their frustration at the situation out.
And Thomas, really, just stop with the Bruce Butler stuff. What, you mean he is not perfect? Well, all the more reason to join the bashers. If we had all the other principals/high schools under a microscope like SL is here, of course we could find all kinds of negative to say. Enough.
So, SL parents, please come to the boundary meetings and bring as many of your friends as you can. That's the only way we won't get railroaded by these folks that profess to only care about their kids, but will then proceed to throw South Lakes kids under the bus. How incredibly self-centered you all are. I looked at the South County blogs before that redistricting happened, and there was not the extreme nastiness I see here.
Also, about the central staff--contact the superintendent?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2007 08:22PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VaDriver
()
Date: October 24, 2007 08:19PM
User name..."Another SL Parent wrote": "This is simply testament to my fellow baby boomers - concerned mostly with themselves, their financial position and their status. If you were really concerned about your children, you would at least make an attempt to learn about all the wonderful things that have and are happening at SLHS"
Go promote your socialistic philosophy somewhere else..maybe Venezuela... This fellow baby boomer views this attempt at redistricting as simply a massive redistribution of wealth. Your home values will go up by 50,000 or more...ours will go down. But, it won't go down without a fight.
Go promote your socialistic philosophy somewhere else..maybe Venezuela... This fellow baby boomer views this attempt at redistricting as simply a massive redistribution of wealth. Your home values will go up by 50,000 or more...ours will go down. But, it won't go down without a fight.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 08:25PM
Yes, VaDriver,
I think you just proved Another SL Parent's point beautifully. It is all about housing values, not your kids.
You know, house price is a psychological thing. If you would stop spreading untruths about South Lakes, maybe your values wouldn't go down.
I think you just proved Another SL Parent's point beautifully. It is all about housing values, not your kids.
You know, house price is a psychological thing. If you would stop spreading untruths about South Lakes, maybe your values wouldn't go down.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 24, 2007 08:36PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Thomas, really, just stop with the Bruce
> Butler stuff.
Why? Is someone else in charge up?
Do you deny that these events occurred? Are these events not objectionable? If they had happened to your child, you would not have objected?
I shouold keep silent so the disfunctionality can be glossed over, ignored and not changed or improved.
If you think differently, give us examples of good things that Bruce has done. I can't find any and I've been hoping for something, anything to be hopeful about regarding SL.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Thomas, really, just stop with the Bruce
> Butler stuff.
Why? Is someone else in charge up?
Do you deny that these events occurred? Are these events not objectionable? If they had happened to your child, you would not have objected?
I shouold keep silent so the disfunctionality can be glossed over, ignored and not changed or improved.
If you think differently, give us examples of good things that Bruce has done. I can't find any and I've been hoping for something, anything to be hopeful about regarding SL.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VaDriver
()
Date: October 24, 2007 08:37PM
Well SL Parent....How about you give me $50,000....since my kids are grown and won't be affected and we'll call it even!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 24, 2007 08:54PM
South Lakes parents,
Of course most of you are going to praise South Lakes to the hilt and deny any problems. What else could you do? Admit that you've allowed your child to attend one of the more dangerous schools in the county, one with lower scores than all the surrounding high schools? With an administration that cares more about keeping themselves happy than meeting the needs of the students? What parent would want to face putting their children in such a position? What parent would say that they used their child as part of a the failed social experiment that is Reston? Of course you would not want to face that, of course you want to tell yourself that you have done well by your child. What else could you say and live with your decisions?
It's fine to tell yourself whatever you must to live with your decisions, I hope that you find comfort in that. But please, do not expect the rest of the county to go along with your delusions of South Lakes grandeur, when the facts are readily available.
Of course most of you are going to praise South Lakes to the hilt and deny any problems. What else could you do? Admit that you've allowed your child to attend one of the more dangerous schools in the county, one with lower scores than all the surrounding high schools? With an administration that cares more about keeping themselves happy than meeting the needs of the students? What parent would want to face putting their children in such a position? What parent would say that they used their child as part of a the failed social experiment that is Reston? Of course you would not want to face that, of course you want to tell yourself that you have done well by your child. What else could you say and live with your decisions?
It's fine to tell yourself whatever you must to live with your decisions, I hope that you find comfort in that. But please, do not expect the rest of the county to go along with your delusions of South Lakes grandeur, when the facts are readily available.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 24, 2007 09:08PM
Thomas More,
Whose stories are purely anecdotal now? Who comes out of graduation from any high school saying "awwww im really going to miss being in school this is so sad that i cant wake up every morning at 6am"? That is one student. I'm sure if you spoke SERIOUSLY with students at South Lakes, most would tell you a different story. They are after all teenagers. They do have a tendency to exaggerate for dramatic effect. I also have decided you and a lot of your fellow posters are not worth my time to argue with. You will never understand that it is not your reasons for not wanting to redistrict that we have such a problem with. It is your continual bashing of our school and our community with untruths. You have not taken the time to find out what South Lakes is really like. It is fine that you don't want to leave the school you attend now. I wouldnt either. It is understandable that you are worried about property value. But use those as your reasons. Not the "inner-city-like" atmosphere of South Lakes (which by the way...doesnt exist).
Whose stories are purely anecdotal now? Who comes out of graduation from any high school saying "awwww im really going to miss being in school this is so sad that i cant wake up every morning at 6am"? That is one student. I'm sure if you spoke SERIOUSLY with students at South Lakes, most would tell you a different story. They are after all teenagers. They do have a tendency to exaggerate for dramatic effect. I also have decided you and a lot of your fellow posters are not worth my time to argue with. You will never understand that it is not your reasons for not wanting to redistrict that we have such a problem with. It is your continual bashing of our school and our community with untruths. You have not taken the time to find out what South Lakes is really like. It is fine that you don't want to leave the school you attend now. I wouldnt either. It is understandable that you are worried about property value. But use those as your reasons. Not the "inner-city-like" atmosphere of South Lakes (which by the way...doesnt exist).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 24, 2007 09:25PM
slgrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
>
> Whose stories are purely anecdotal now? Who comes
> out of graduation from any high school saying
> "awwww im really going to miss being in school
> this is so sad that i cant wake up every morning
> at 6am"? That is one student. I'm sure if you
> spoke SERIOUSLY with students at South Lakes, most
> would tell you a different story. They are after
> all teenagers. They do have a tendency to
> exaggerate for dramatic effect. I also have
> decided you and a lot of your fellow posters are
> not worth my time to argue with. You will never
> understand that it is not your reasons for not
> wanting to redistrict that we have such a problem
> with. It is your continual bashing of our school
> and our community with untruths. You have not
> taken the time to find out what South Lakes is
> really like.
My kids have gone and are still going to SL. My older child who graduated before the Reign of Railly still misses her high school teachers and came back to visit them every break from college until they all left because of Railly. That child knew teachers cared about her and wanted to help her to succeed in college and in life. Just six years later, that feeling was gone and no semblance remained. It wasn't just one student, those feelings were reflected by many others. Thanks to Railly and Stu.
I have no doubt that I've spent more time at South Lakes over the last 11 years than you have in your life.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
>
> Whose stories are purely anecdotal now? Who comes
> out of graduation from any high school saying
> "awwww im really going to miss being in school
> this is so sad that i cant wake up every morning
> at 6am"? That is one student. I'm sure if you
> spoke SERIOUSLY with students at South Lakes, most
> would tell you a different story. They are after
> all teenagers. They do have a tendency to
> exaggerate for dramatic effect. I also have
> decided you and a lot of your fellow posters are
> not worth my time to argue with. You will never
> understand that it is not your reasons for not
> wanting to redistrict that we have such a problem
> with. It is your continual bashing of our school
> and our community with untruths. You have not
> taken the time to find out what South Lakes is
> really like.
My kids have gone and are still going to SL. My older child who graduated before the Reign of Railly still misses her high school teachers and came back to visit them every break from college until they all left because of Railly. That child knew teachers cared about her and wanted to help her to succeed in college and in life. Just six years later, that feeling was gone and no semblance remained. It wasn't just one student, those feelings were reflected by many others. Thanks to Railly and Stu.
I have no doubt that I've spent more time at South Lakes over the last 11 years than you have in your life.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 24, 2007 09:28PM
I'm just curious...
So if you are a SL parent and you go to the meeting you say what?
Our school is good? - seems to me whether it's good or not is irrelevant. They are going to take students from another school and place them there regardless of the situation. -my take you can sit this one out, you already know no one will listen
Everyone else will be saying "not me" -guaranteed
Seems pointless.
What needs to be said is keep neighborhoods together, keep feeder schools like elementary schools together, and allow grandfathering. If you are already at a school you stay there. And finally do it right and stop messing around with the boundaries every few years (espcially for the floris folks who have been jerked around.) You're pitting neighbors against each other with this process.
So if you are a SL parent and you go to the meeting you say what?
Our school is good? - seems to me whether it's good or not is irrelevant. They are going to take students from another school and place them there regardless of the situation. -my take you can sit this one out, you already know no one will listen
Everyone else will be saying "not me" -guaranteed
Seems pointless.
What needs to be said is keep neighborhoods together, keep feeder schools like elementary schools together, and allow grandfathering. If you are already at a school you stay there. And finally do it right and stop messing around with the boundaries every few years (espcially for the floris folks who have been jerked around.) You're pitting neighbors against each other with this process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 09:39PM
Capys,
You think we have nothing at stake here? Of course we do. You all keep talking about Magnets and which elementary school should go and which should stay, and we should have no opinion on these things? Are you really that clueless? This is our school you guys are punching around.
We're not going to bother defending our school against your vicious attacks--hopefully your neighbors who go aren't as rude as you are here, or at least the facilitators will make you act nice. We are there to make our opinions and concerns heard, just like you.
I think grandfathering is going to happen, btw, despite all the more lies posted here about that. We will be starting with 9th graders. I think that's been plainly stated. Anybody that says anything else is just stirring the hornets nest that is Oakton/Madison/Chantilly for their own political ends. If you were even faintly not upset about the idea of going to South Lakes, they want to make sure that you become upset by posting things like this. They are playing you.
You think we have nothing at stake here? Of course we do. You all keep talking about Magnets and which elementary school should go and which should stay, and we should have no opinion on these things? Are you really that clueless? This is our school you guys are punching around.
We're not going to bother defending our school against your vicious attacks--hopefully your neighbors who go aren't as rude as you are here, or at least the facilitators will make you act nice. We are there to make our opinions and concerns heard, just like you.
I think grandfathering is going to happen, btw, despite all the more lies posted here about that. We will be starting with 9th graders. I think that's been plainly stated. Anybody that says anything else is just stirring the hornets nest that is Oakton/Madison/Chantilly for their own political ends. If you were even faintly not upset about the idea of going to South Lakes, they want to make sure that you become upset by posting things like this. They are playing you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 24, 2007 09:52PM
It is our ox that is being gored. Take what you're given and be grateful.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 09:53PM
Capys,
I guess you really are that clueless.
I guess you really are that clueless.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
mykidsaresad
()
Date: October 24, 2007 10:07PM
Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> perhaps instead of penalizing the schools for poor
> performance, we could penalize the kids. i think
> weekly public executions of the 50 worst students
> with below average grades would help motivate
> everyone. everyone with a 90% or higher average
> grades would be granted immunity. additionally,
> all dropouts and runaways will be executed on
> sight. i havent settled on a form of execution,
> beheading and hanging are both great so i say a
> hybrid would be best... have a blade decapitate
> them as they are hanging.
I think this is the best solution yet, then we can hire the great attorneys from the Langley area or the few from the Oakton area to defend our actions; after all we are only trying to better our schools. My kids, even though they are only 8 and 10 right now are feeling pretty lousy by the attitudes and opinions towards the high school they will eventually attend. Don't think the kids even this young are spared these additudes. Kinda makes me want to run away from all this segradation, oh I meant, desegradation. Sad, sad.
-------------------------------------------------------
> perhaps instead of penalizing the schools for poor
> performance, we could penalize the kids. i think
> weekly public executions of the 50 worst students
> with below average grades would help motivate
> everyone. everyone with a 90% or higher average
> grades would be granted immunity. additionally,
> all dropouts and runaways will be executed on
> sight. i havent settled on a form of execution,
> beheading and hanging are both great so i say a
> hybrid would be best... have a blade decapitate
> them as they are hanging.
I think this is the best solution yet, then we can hire the great attorneys from the Langley area or the few from the Oakton area to defend our actions; after all we are only trying to better our schools. My kids, even though they are only 8 and 10 right now are feeling pretty lousy by the attitudes and opinions towards the high school they will eventually attend. Don't think the kids even this young are spared these additudes. Kinda makes me want to run away from all this segradation, oh I meant, desegradation. Sad, sad.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 24, 2007 10:13PM
mykidsaresad,
Where do you live and which school?
Where do you live and which school?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 24, 2007 10:16PM
OK so what's so clueless about this...
What needs to be said is keep neighborhoods together, keep feeder schools like elementary schools together, and allow grandfathering. If you are already at a school you stay there. And finally do it right and stop messing around with the boundaries every few years (espcially for the floris folks who have been jerked around.) You're pitting neighbors against each other with this process.
What needs to be said is keep neighborhoods together, keep feeder schools like elementary schools together, and allow grandfathering. If you are already at a school you stay there. And finally do it right and stop messing around with the boundaries every few years (espcially for the floris folks who have been jerked around.) You're pitting neighbors against each other with this process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 24, 2007 10:27PM
Neen: You really are a dope. You repeat myth as mantra.
. Reston is a failed experiment".
. SLHS kids are doomed";
. SLHS Parents are negligent and delusional.
. The Administration at SLHS are members of the Trilateral Commission".
. SLHS community concocted the MRSA bacteria to bring down my property values and to seek revenge for their horrible decisions".
. Elvis is alive and in SLHS Saturday detention center with all of the young bruthas."
Good luck in your cocoon
. Reston is a failed experiment".
. SLHS kids are doomed";
. SLHS Parents are negligent and delusional.
. The Administration at SLHS are members of the Trilateral Commission".
. SLHS community concocted the MRSA bacteria to bring down my property values and to seek revenge for their horrible decisions".
. Elvis is alive and in SLHS Saturday detention center with all of the young bruthas."
Good luck in your cocoon
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 24, 2007 10:38PM
> I think grandfathering is going to happen, btw,
> despite all the more lies posted here about that.
> We will be starting with 9th graders. I think
> that's been plainly stated. Anybody that says
> anything else is just stirring the hornets nest
> that is Oakton/Madison/Chantilly for their own
> political ends. If you were even faintly not
> upset about the idea of going to South Lakes, they
> want to make sure that you become upset by posting
> things like this. They are playing you.
Grandfathering has NOT been plainly stated. A number of families and communities have been told it is on the agenda (which means it is not a given) by many people who work for the county--school board members, FCPS facility staff, FCPS transportation staff and school administrators. According to some FCPS staff members grandfathering is a nightmare, esp. for the transportation office.
BTW, it is funny how you, South Lakes Pyramid Parent, have reduced everyone else's posts to a bunch of lies. Really, why don't you leave your Ivory Tower at SL and visit some of these other communities/schools? Sit and listen to all the crap that their principals, school board members, FCPS staff, etc are telling/not telling us about this study. How many phone calls or emails have you placed with school board members, other candidates, staff at county offices, principals, vice principals, PTA members, etc? You would be surprised by how much us liars have circulated to learn and understand what not just our neighborhood/community is up to, but what all the impacted school communities are up to. Most importantly, none of us think re-districting is warranted.
It is obvious that you have the least to loose by a redistricting.
I dear say now, most of the SL glory you speak of is diminished because you choose to stoop low and blow us off. When you start turning on other thread contributors perhaps there is nothing more left to say about your school.
> despite all the more lies posted here about that.
> We will be starting with 9th graders. I think
> that's been plainly stated. Anybody that says
> anything else is just stirring the hornets nest
> that is Oakton/Madison/Chantilly for their own
> political ends. If you were even faintly not
> upset about the idea of going to South Lakes, they
> want to make sure that you become upset by posting
> things like this. They are playing you.
Grandfathering has NOT been plainly stated. A number of families and communities have been told it is on the agenda (which means it is not a given) by many people who work for the county--school board members, FCPS facility staff, FCPS transportation staff and school administrators. According to some FCPS staff members grandfathering is a nightmare, esp. for the transportation office.
BTW, it is funny how you, South Lakes Pyramid Parent, have reduced everyone else's posts to a bunch of lies. Really, why don't you leave your Ivory Tower at SL and visit some of these other communities/schools? Sit and listen to all the crap that their principals, school board members, FCPS staff, etc are telling/not telling us about this study. How many phone calls or emails have you placed with school board members, other candidates, staff at county offices, principals, vice principals, PTA members, etc? You would be surprised by how much us liars have circulated to learn and understand what not just our neighborhood/community is up to, but what all the impacted school communities are up to. Most importantly, none of us think re-districting is warranted.
It is obvious that you have the least to loose by a redistricting.
I dear say now, most of the SL glory you speak of is diminished because you choose to stoop low and blow us off. When you start turning on other thread contributors perhaps there is nothing more left to say about your school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: October 24, 2007 10:54PM
mykidsaresad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > perhaps instead of penalizing the schools for
> poor
> > performance, we could penalize the kids. i
> think
> > weekly public executions of the 50 worst
> students
> > with below average grades would help motivate
> > everyone. everyone with a 90% or higher
> average
> > grades would be granted immunity.
> additionally,
> > all dropouts and runaways will be executed on
> > sight. i havent settled on a form of
> execution,
> > beheading and hanging are both great so i say a
> > hybrid would be best... have a blade decapitate
> > them as they are hanging.
>
>
> I think this is the best solution yet, then we can
> hire the great attorneys from the Langley area or
> the few from the Oakton area to defend our
> actions; after all we are only trying to better
> our schools. My kids, even though they are only
> 8 and 10 right now are feeling pretty lousy by the
> attitudes and opinions towards the high school
> they will eventually attend. Don't think the
> kids even this young are spared these additudes.
> Kinda makes me want to run away from all this
> segradation, oh I meant, desegradation. Sad, sad.
segradation? desegradation?
You must be a South Lakes High alumna! LOL
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > perhaps instead of penalizing the schools for
> poor
> > performance, we could penalize the kids. i
> think
> > weekly public executions of the 50 worst
> students
> > with below average grades would help motivate
> > everyone. everyone with a 90% or higher
> average
> > grades would be granted immunity.
> additionally,
> > all dropouts and runaways will be executed on
> > sight. i havent settled on a form of
> execution,
> > beheading and hanging are both great so i say a
> > hybrid would be best... have a blade decapitate
> > them as they are hanging.
>
>
> I think this is the best solution yet, then we can
> hire the great attorneys from the Langley area or
> the few from the Oakton area to defend our
> actions; after all we are only trying to better
> our schools. My kids, even though they are only
> 8 and 10 right now are feeling pretty lousy by the
> attitudes and opinions towards the high school
> they will eventually attend. Don't think the
> kids even this young are spared these additudes.
> Kinda makes me want to run away from all this
> segradation, oh I meant, desegradation. Sad, sad.
segradation? desegradation?
You must be a South Lakes High alumna! LOL
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Voter
()
Date: October 24, 2007 10:57PM
...
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Supporter
()
Date: October 24, 2007 11:52PM
Please stop bashing South Lakes former principal, Realista Rodriquez. She was dedicated and hard working. We need more like her in this system.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
noway
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:11AM
HAHAHAHA no way. NO WAY. Cheers and applause rang out through the halls of south lakes the day she came on the loudspeaker and finally announced. Students and teachers alike. It was the last time our ears would be blown out by:
"ESTUDANTSSSSSS, DEES EES YOUR PRIN-SI-PAL SPEAKINGGGGGGG"
as if we couldnt tell/couldnt hear. If youre incompetant, you are incompetant. She was terrible at her job no matter how hard she thought she was working.
"ESTUDANTSSSSSS, DEES EES YOUR PRIN-SI-PAL SPEAKINGGGGGGG"
as if we couldnt tell/couldnt hear. If youre incompetant, you are incompetant. She was terrible at her job no matter how hard she thought she was working.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:19AM
Supporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please stop bashing South Lakes former principal,
> Realista Rodriquez. She was dedicated and hard
> working. We need more like her in this system.
Never.
She was an unmitigated incompetent disaster who embarrassed herself everyday at SL. She treated students, teachers, staff, parents and everyone she interacted with disrespect and condescension. Her Reign of Terror was the single worst experience that any child could have. An exceptional high school staff could be created with all of the teachers who fled SL to get away form her. Until a serial murder graduates from SL (sorry Westfields), she will be the single worst human ever to enter South Lakes.
Her name will live in infamy in Reston, the halls of South Lakes and the hearts and minds of those she abused.
Other than that she was terrific
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please stop bashing South Lakes former principal,
> Realista Rodriquez. She was dedicated and hard
> working. We need more like her in this system.
Never.
She was an unmitigated incompetent disaster who embarrassed herself everyday at SL. She treated students, teachers, staff, parents and everyone she interacted with disrespect and condescension. Her Reign of Terror was the single worst experience that any child could have. An exceptional high school staff could be created with all of the teachers who fled SL to get away form her. Until a serial murder graduates from SL (sorry Westfields), she will be the single worst human ever to enter South Lakes.
Her name will live in infamy in Reston, the halls of South Lakes and the hearts and minds of those she abused.
Other than that she was terrific
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
noway
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:42AM
I wouldnt be suprised if "supporter" = old reilly herself!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Hollywood
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:48AM
Are you kidding me! I'll never forget the day when I sat in the football stadium at our first pep rally of the year and had to here her introduce herself.
"ESTUDANTSSSSSS, I AM YOUR NEW PRIN-SI-PAL!"
She was so loud my mom heard her down by the 7-11 on Soapstone - little did we know that voice would plague us for years to come.
Every student who graduated during her Napoleonic reign had that Shawshank Redemption moment of lifting their arms to the sky like they just broke out of prison.
"ESTUDANTSSSSSS, I AM YOUR NEW PRIN-SI-PAL!"
She was so loud my mom heard her down by the 7-11 on Soapstone - little did we know that voice would plague us for years to come.
Every student who graduated during her Napoleonic reign had that Shawshank Redemption moment of lifting their arms to the sky like they just broke out of prison.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Supporter
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:32AM
Atleast I know how to spell and pronounce her first name. It's Really, short for Realista. And you pronounce it railee. She is from the Phillipines. You sound prejudiced.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:53AM
Supporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atleast I know how to spell and pronounce her
> first name. It's Really, short for Realista. And
> you pronounce it railee. She is from the
> Phillipines. You sound prejudiced.
And she never learned, or cared to know, anyone else's name or how to properly pronounce it. She was certainly prejudiced against anyone who wasn't Railly.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atleast I know how to spell and pronounce her
> first name. It's Really, short for Realista. And
> you pronounce it railee. She is from the
> Phillipines. You sound prejudiced.
And she never learned, or cared to know, anyone else's name or how to properly pronounce it. She was certainly prejudiced against anyone who wasn't Railly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:57AM
"earth to tm: put down the crack pipe and no one will get hurt"
haha. seriously, though, more. your facts are a little iffy. bruce played football and sports at herndon... south lakes wasn't open when he was in high school. the way you write makes it seem like this is a typical school day. we're in school 183 days out of the year, so whats wrong with having a senior class talent show? thats right, it wasn't even the whole school. i saw him play it on youtube before i ever heard of anyone talking about it. and you can't actually expect him to know the names of every student in the school. who are you anyway and what do you claim to be the source of your information? the "disfunctionality" you say is here just isn't -- butler runs a tight ship but remains a popular figure among well behaved students (and didn't win principal of the year for nothing).
and that kid was a complete idiot. i had to wait to get to my car because some freshman thinks he can dash between the trailers in a high-traffic area? i'm not saying he deserved to be hit... but you can't try to pin your own stupid actions on a school that didn't have anything to do with it. go ahead and blame fire for burning your hand or say that the sidewalk tripped you while youre at it.
anyway, house prices are bs. realtors control the market. now why, you ask, would our current economic slump be good for the realtors? the same reason that the canadian dollar's current supremacy to the US dollar is good for the us economy. the low dollar value will stimulate more spending, which brings up the economy. http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/147.html this is basically the same thing that happens now, just people are unaware.
supporter -- are you joking? south lakes was at an all-time low under rodriguez. she was the ultimate joke principal. the last thing anything any school system needs is rodriguez at the helm. but hey, every cloud has its silver lining. while your zeppelin just burned in a firey heap, you can take solace in knowing how to spell her name. good for you.
haha. seriously, though, more. your facts are a little iffy. bruce played football and sports at herndon... south lakes wasn't open when he was in high school. the way you write makes it seem like this is a typical school day. we're in school 183 days out of the year, so whats wrong with having a senior class talent show? thats right, it wasn't even the whole school. i saw him play it on youtube before i ever heard of anyone talking about it. and you can't actually expect him to know the names of every student in the school. who are you anyway and what do you claim to be the source of your information? the "disfunctionality" you say is here just isn't -- butler runs a tight ship but remains a popular figure among well behaved students (and didn't win principal of the year for nothing).
and that kid was a complete idiot. i had to wait to get to my car because some freshman thinks he can dash between the trailers in a high-traffic area? i'm not saying he deserved to be hit... but you can't try to pin your own stupid actions on a school that didn't have anything to do with it. go ahead and blame fire for burning your hand or say that the sidewalk tripped you while youre at it.
anyway, house prices are bs. realtors control the market. now why, you ask, would our current economic slump be good for the realtors? the same reason that the canadian dollar's current supremacy to the US dollar is good for the us economy. the low dollar value will stimulate more spending, which brings up the economy. http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/147.html this is basically the same thing that happens now, just people are unaware.
supporter -- are you joking? south lakes was at an all-time low under rodriguez. she was the ultimate joke principal. the last thing anything any school system needs is rodriguez at the helm. but hey, every cloud has its silver lining. while your zeppelin just burned in a firey heap, you can take solace in knowing how to spell her name. good for you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Job Beams
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:17AM
Supporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atleast I know how to spell and pronounce her
> first name. It's Really, short for Realista. And
> you pronounce it railee. She is from the
> Phillipines. You sound prejudiced.
Once again, when discourse is upsetting to someone, the race card is played.
I believe that principals are selected under merit procedures; Did you know that many principals are earning over $100,000 a year?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atleast I know how to spell and pronounce her
> first name. It's Really, short for Realista. And
> you pronounce it railee. She is from the
> Phillipines. You sound prejudiced.
Once again, when discourse is upsetting to someone, the race card is played.
I believe that principals are selected under merit procedures; Did you know that many principals are earning over $100,000 a year?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 05:58AM
It is WESTFIELD not WESTFIELDS. thanks
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 08:09AM
South Lakes is not the only school that had/has an incompetent principal or assistant principals. The higher performing the school the more entrenched or likely they are now to put in the bad ones? ... FCPS is a PR machine. Think about serious stuff like MRSA staff...at least one school had cases in the first part of Sept and they danced on the issue.
Remember Stu's base school [Lake Anne] fiasco? The PTA ended up petitioning out the principal and they shifted her around and now she is at Longfellow as an
asst principal. Longfellow is such a good school I am surprised it is in FCPS. That school is more indicative of STANDARD middle schools found in smaller school districts/divisions in burbs around New York, New Jersey,etc. Parents never get to sit on committees that help choose anyone but the principal and which parents even get on those principal committees? I read SL's didn't even have one of those when Really got a job for life.
Then we have FCCPTA's which should function as an umbrella organization giving parents wide lobbying power WITH FCPS. Does it? NO-the same few people have sat there for years chummy with senior staff. Stockholm Syndrome???
ARAKELIAN has ticked off that organization - FCPS tried to mess with her kid and she did not sit back and let them do to HER CHILD what has been done to countless others.
How many of you ever got to go to a meeting/symposium whatever that surveys important stuff and you get to present your viewpoints to people on Advisory committees before they go to meetings?
FCPS is so big and seems to be an employer of last resort. There was an AP at Madison who did a lousy job- got a job as a principal in DC - there 6 months before he got in the Wshington Post. People in SE DC have nothing to lose by going public and even his DC colleagues slammed him in the Post.
There was a football coach caught years ago with BAGS of crack cocaine in a DC police sting. Most likely now teaching in Loudoun or FCPS.
FYI-Reston is not SE DC or Anacostia or North Philadelphia EXCEPT for the fact that FCPS/STU/STRAUSS have turned it into such an animal plopped down in the middle of western FX county. Note the middle since it is surrounded not a school like Westfield which borders the airport/Loudoun, etc.
As for other jurisdictions- The City of Falls Church runs it's own schools. Might as well be in Maryland. Fairfax City has it's own schools and a school board that interracts with FCPS board and administrators. FCPS administers it but a whole other board is involved on stuff like boundaries IMHO having more input than FXC generic residents in boundary for the perpetually overcrowded Frost/Woodson.
Remember Stu's base school [Lake Anne] fiasco? The PTA ended up petitioning out the principal and they shifted her around and now she is at Longfellow as an
asst principal. Longfellow is such a good school I am surprised it is in FCPS. That school is more indicative of STANDARD middle schools found in smaller school districts/divisions in burbs around New York, New Jersey,etc. Parents never get to sit on committees that help choose anyone but the principal and which parents even get on those principal committees? I read SL's didn't even have one of those when Really got a job for life.
Then we have FCCPTA's which should function as an umbrella organization giving parents wide lobbying power WITH FCPS. Does it? NO-the same few people have sat there for years chummy with senior staff. Stockholm Syndrome???
ARAKELIAN has ticked off that organization - FCPS tried to mess with her kid and she did not sit back and let them do to HER CHILD what has been done to countless others.
How many of you ever got to go to a meeting/symposium whatever that surveys important stuff and you get to present your viewpoints to people on Advisory committees before they go to meetings?
FCPS is so big and seems to be an employer of last resort. There was an AP at Madison who did a lousy job- got a job as a principal in DC - there 6 months before he got in the Wshington Post. People in SE DC have nothing to lose by going public and even his DC colleagues slammed him in the Post.
There was a football coach caught years ago with BAGS of crack cocaine in a DC police sting. Most likely now teaching in Loudoun or FCPS.
FYI-Reston is not SE DC or Anacostia or North Philadelphia EXCEPT for the fact that FCPS/STU/STRAUSS have turned it into such an animal plopped down in the middle of western FX county. Note the middle since it is surrounded not a school like Westfield which borders the airport/Loudoun, etc.
As for other jurisdictions- The City of Falls Church runs it's own schools. Might as well be in Maryland. Fairfax City has it's own schools and a school board that interracts with FCPS board and administrators. FCPS administers it but a whole other board is involved on stuff like boundaries IMHO having more input than FXC generic residents in boundary for the perpetually overcrowded Frost/Woodson.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 08:31AM
Well Cricket,
I don't think you are the ultimate source of knowledge. i've talked to a lot of people from surrounding schools--you would be surprised at the number of people who want the redistricting to happen-=right in your own neighborhood! So I know the statement that "none of us think redistricting is warranted" is false.
The lies I'm referring to are the lies about statistics ( we have the lowest SAT scores in the county) that are patently false, but keep being restated. Westfield and Herndon's scores are essentially the same, but you wouldn't know that if you listen to people on this board. There is a lot of bashing of SL going on, you have to admit. Most of it unwarranted.
While it is true that we stand to gain by redistricting in the number of courses offered,etc, that is really the only advantage I can think of. We stand to lose if we get a bunch of unhappy kids who have been told to hate the school they are coming to. SL has a great culture and that could be ruined.
I understand that you don't want to move, who does? But your communities also stand to gain--I think the complaints about overcrowding and distance from the school are legitimate, whether you believe that or not. I agree that Westfield should probably stay intact, if the parents don't mind the lack of opportunities for their kids. I agree that Langley should be part of the study. I agree that AP should be on the table. But I think that to say "HELL NO, We WON"T GO" is only going to go so far. If you are unwilling to compromise and name the things that would make the change better for you, you could lose any negotiating position you have. I think you would find a warm welcoming atmosphere at SL that would enable your kids to make a good transition.
And your statement about magnets at South Lakes have no mention of consulting SL parents. Do you know how condescending that sounds to us? You all talk about us like we don't exist, we don't have a voice in this process, we should just be happy with what we get. This proves to me that you really have no idea what you are talking about, how to negotiate, how to see the other person's side, etc. That you are thinking like a child--completely self-centered. When you all are ready to talk to us like adults who are no different than you (we all bought >500K houses too you know, we look no different than you) and stop posting unwarranted statements about SL, then we can talk.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 08:45AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I don't think you are the ultimate source of knowledge. i've talked to a lot of people from surrounding schools--you would be surprised at the number of people who want the redistricting to happen-=right in your own neighborhood! So I know the statement that "none of us think redistricting is warranted" is false.
The lies I'm referring to are the lies about statistics ( we have the lowest SAT scores in the county) that are patently false, but keep being restated. Westfield and Herndon's scores are essentially the same, but you wouldn't know that if you listen to people on this board. There is a lot of bashing of SL going on, you have to admit. Most of it unwarranted.
While it is true that we stand to gain by redistricting in the number of courses offered,etc, that is really the only advantage I can think of. We stand to lose if we get a bunch of unhappy kids who have been told to hate the school they are coming to. SL has a great culture and that could be ruined.
I understand that you don't want to move, who does? But your communities also stand to gain--I think the complaints about overcrowding and distance from the school are legitimate, whether you believe that or not. I agree that Westfield should probably stay intact, if the parents don't mind the lack of opportunities for their kids. I agree that Langley should be part of the study. I agree that AP should be on the table. But I think that to say "HELL NO, We WON"T GO" is only going to go so far. If you are unwilling to compromise and name the things that would make the change better for you, you could lose any negotiating position you have. I think you would find a warm welcoming atmosphere at SL that would enable your kids to make a good transition.
And your statement about magnets at South Lakes have no mention of consulting SL parents. Do you know how condescending that sounds to us? You all talk about us like we don't exist, we don't have a voice in this process, we should just be happy with what we get. This proves to me that you really have no idea what you are talking about, how to negotiate, how to see the other person's side, etc. That you are thinking like a child--completely self-centered. When you all are ready to talk to us like adults who are no different than you (we all bought >500K houses too you know, we look no different than you) and stop posting unwarranted statements about SL, then we can talk.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 08:45AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Farmer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 08:47AM
Have to wave the BS flag on this one - "i've talked to a lot of people from surrounding schools--you would be surprised at the number of people who want the redistricting to happen"
Franklin Farm is a community of 1771 residences. They took a poll about school preferences. Results below. Anybody else take a poll?
Attachments:
Franklin Farm is a community of 1771 residences. They took a poll about school preferences. Results below. Anybody else take a poll?
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:20AM
Farmer,
Of course you would expect that most people want to stay where they are. That's a given.
But for that to be a valid survey, there are other details to include, like, how were they polled, how many responded, etc.
If they are self-selected, the results could be very skewed. There is a reason pollsters use stratified samples and other methods to make sure the results are valid.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 09:33AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Of course you would expect that most people want to stay where they are. That's a given.
But for that to be a valid survey, there are other details to include, like, how were they polled, how many responded, etc.
If they are self-selected, the results could be very skewed. There is a reason pollsters use stratified samples and other methods to make sure the results are valid.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 09:33AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Farmer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:36AM
Waving the BS flag again - I agree that Westfield should probably stay intact
Of course you do - you don't want McNair.
Of course you do - you don't want McNair.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Farmer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:41AM
Waving the BS flag again - the complaints about overcrowding and distance from the school are legitimate
From a previous post...
The following question was asked about the complaints of overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfield under the Freedom of Information Act...
“Specifically, I need to know who the ‘community members’ are and the details of their ‘concerns.’ I want a list of names, the dates their concerns were expressed, and the details of their concerns…”
FCPS ANSWER:
“There aren’t any written or electronic documents pertaining to the community member’s concerns reflected in the July 16 School Board work session agenda item. The statement reflects input received from citizens at various community meetings regarding school facilities. The comments were oral, and were not contained in a letter or e-mail.”
From a previous post...
The following question was asked about the complaints of overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfield under the Freedom of Information Act...
“Specifically, I need to know who the ‘community members’ are and the details of their ‘concerns.’ I want a list of names, the dates their concerns were expressed, and the details of their concerns…”
FCPS ANSWER:
“There aren’t any written or electronic documents pertaining to the community member’s concerns reflected in the July 16 School Board work session agenda item. The statement reflects input received from citizens at various community meetings regarding school facilities. The comments were oral, and were not contained in a letter or e-mail.”
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another SL Parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:57AM
Here! Here! SL Pyramid Parent - very well said. I am just so embarrased by these SL bashers...people who may be my neighbors, my friends, co-workers,people I grew up with? I mean these people are part of my generation. These are the "adults" my kids may interact with. I'm ashamed for them and for their negativeness. I'm glad that you and I (and many others I am sure) have the willingness and competence to step back and look at the whole situation for what it is and are willing to consider the truths about SL, not the lies. We at least can go forth knowing that we set an exemplary example for our children.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:06AM
Just a childish as the rest of us, South Lakes Pyramid Parent...
As I said before....
When you start turning on other thread contributors perhaps there is nothing more left to say about your school.
As I said before....
When you start turning on other thread contributors perhaps there is nothing more left to say about your school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:09AM
Farmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have to wave the BS flag on this one - "i've
> talked to a lot of people from surrounding
> schools--you would be surprised at the number of
> people who want the redistricting to happen"
>
> Franklin Farm is a community of 1771 residences.
> They took a poll about school preferences. Results
> below. Anybody else take a poll?
Thank you, Farmer!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have to wave the BS flag on this one - "i've
> talked to a lot of people from surrounding
> schools--you would be surprised at the number of
> people who want the redistricting to happen"
>
> Franklin Farm is a community of 1771 residences.
> They took a poll about school preferences. Results
> below. Anybody else take a poll?
Thank you, Farmer!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:13AM
Farmer,
Still didn't get a response on the methods used for doing the survey.
On Westfield, of course McNair would be another Title 1 school feeding into South Lakes. I have stated that I don't think it is fair either for the surrounding community or the people in the affordable housing/free lunch crowd to be packed into one school. That's not good for anyone. We shouldn't be creating ghettos in the suburbs. I have stated that I think Reston has its fair share of disadvantaged populations, while Oakton and Great Falls have practically none.
But the Westfield people are saying that their schools have the capacity. I really don't know if that's true or not. Stu going on about the "ideal school" being 2100 or so. Don't know what is motivating that.
Still didn't get a response on the methods used for doing the survey.
On Westfield, of course McNair would be another Title 1 school feeding into South Lakes. I have stated that I don't think it is fair either for the surrounding community or the people in the affordable housing/free lunch crowd to be packed into one school. That's not good for anyone. We shouldn't be creating ghettos in the suburbs. I have stated that I think Reston has its fair share of disadvantaged populations, while Oakton and Great Falls have practically none.
But the Westfield people are saying that their schools have the capacity. I really don't know if that's true or not. Stu going on about the "ideal school" being 2100 or so. Don't know what is motivating that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:18AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Farmer,
> Of course you would expect that most people want
> to stay where they are. That's a given.
>
> But for that to be a valid survey, there are other
> details to include, like, how were they polled,
> how many responded, etc.
>
> If they are self-selected, the results could be
> very skewed. There is a reason pollsters use
> stratified samples and other methods to make sure
> the results are valid.
How valid this survey is and how well it was conducted would scare you SL Pyramid Parent. I guess if you really know the truth, as you say, you would have already seen this and all the other supporting artifacts and probably known that this survey was started and conducted several months ago, long before all the adults got so wise on this thread.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Farmer,
> Of course you would expect that most people want
> to stay where they are. That's a given.
>
> But for that to be a valid survey, there are other
> details to include, like, how were they polled,
> how many responded, etc.
>
> If they are self-selected, the results could be
> very skewed. There is a reason pollsters use
> stratified samples and other methods to make sure
> the results are valid.
How valid this survey is and how well it was conducted would scare you SL Pyramid Parent. I guess if you really know the truth, as you say, you would have already seen this and all the other supporting artifacts and probably known that this survey was started and conducted several months ago, long before all the adults got so wise on this thread.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:19AM
brian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bruce played football and sports at
> herndon... south lakes wasn't open when he was in
> high school.
He says it was basketball @ SL but it really doesn't matter.
> the way you write makes it seem like
> this is a typical school day. we're in school 183
> days out of the year, so whats wrong with having a
> senior class talent show? thats right, it wasn't
> even the whole school. i saw him play it on
> youtube before i ever heard of anyone talking
> about it.
No problem with talent show, especially after SOLs.
> and you can't actually expect him to
> know the names of every student in the school.
This girl was a senior. He hadn't forgotten her name. He had no clue and he had been her sub-school principal. I expect the sub-school principal to know all 300 names after 4 years.
> and that kid was a complete idiot.
The kid was a passenger in a car driven by someone else in an accident on Soapstone. Tell me why exactly how that kid was a complete idiot?
>i had to wait
> to get to my car because some freshman thinks he
> can dash between the trailers in a high-traffic
> area? i'm not saying he deserved to be hit... but
> you can't try to pin your own stupid actions on a
> school that didn't have anything to do with it.
It's a real shame that a sensitive, caring narcissit like yourself should be ever be inconvenienced but you're thinking about a different kid.
> supporter -- are you joking? south lakes was at an
> all-time low under rodriguez. she was the
> ultimate joke principal. the last thing anything
> any school system needs is rodriguez at the helm.
> but hey, every cloud has its silver lining. while
> your zeppelin just burned in a firey heap, you can
> take solace in knowing how to spell her name.
> good for you.
Brian's posting wasn't a complete waste.
-------------------------------------------------------
> bruce played football and sports at
> herndon... south lakes wasn't open when he was in
> high school.
He says it was basketball @ SL but it really doesn't matter.
> the way you write makes it seem like
> this is a typical school day. we're in school 183
> days out of the year, so whats wrong with having a
> senior class talent show? thats right, it wasn't
> even the whole school. i saw him play it on
> youtube before i ever heard of anyone talking
> about it.
No problem with talent show, especially after SOLs.
> and you can't actually expect him to
> know the names of every student in the school.
This girl was a senior. He hadn't forgotten her name. He had no clue and he had been her sub-school principal. I expect the sub-school principal to know all 300 names after 4 years.
> and that kid was a complete idiot.
The kid was a passenger in a car driven by someone else in an accident on Soapstone. Tell me why exactly how that kid was a complete idiot?
>i had to wait
> to get to my car because some freshman thinks he
> can dash between the trailers in a high-traffic
> area? i'm not saying he deserved to be hit... but
> you can't try to pin your own stupid actions on a
> school that didn't have anything to do with it.
It's a real shame that a sensitive, caring narcissit like yourself should be ever be inconvenienced but you're thinking about a different kid.
> supporter -- are you joking? south lakes was at an
> all-time low under rodriguez. she was the
> ultimate joke principal. the last thing anything
> any school system needs is rodriguez at the helm.
> but hey, every cloud has its silver lining. while
> your zeppelin just burned in a firey heap, you can
> take solace in knowing how to spell her name.
> good for you.
Brian's posting wasn't a complete waste.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:23AM
Cricket,
Not sure what your point is. I have said lots about our school. No one appears to want to hear it unless it meshes with their preconceived notions.
Not sure what your point is. I have said lots about our school. No one appears to want to hear it unless it meshes with their preconceived notions.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
05stillalive
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:33AM
Thomas More,
No one who had been in Bruce Butler's class was still there by the time he became principal. He was sub-school principal of 2001 and 2005. Did this concert take place in 2005?
No one who had been in Bruce Butler's class was still there by the time he became principal. He was sub-school principal of 2001 and 2005. Did this concert take place in 2005?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
05stillalive
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:37AM
You mentioned that it had been "a couple weeks before" the talent show where he played guitar...its not possibile that she had been in his class, unless this upstanding girl you speak of had been held back...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:43AM
I am amazed at the bad facts and inaccuracies posted on this site. One poster can't even get his facts straight about where Bruce Butler attended high school. In fact, he attended Flint Hill Preparatory (with my husband) where he played baseball and basketball.
If posters can't even get an irrelevant fact such as this one straight, how and why should we trust any anti-south lakes posts?
If posters can't even get an irrelevant fact such as this one straight, how and why should we trust any anti-south lakes posts?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:51AM
Let's get a few things straight. Reston is not an incorporated town. Oakton is not an incorporated town. Chantilly is not an incorporated town. Langley is not an incorporated town. Madision and Herndon are, but they pull students from outside the town boundaries (e.g., Herndon has students from "Great Falls," "Reston," "Dranesville." You get my drift....we are all part of one school system FCPS and we are a bunch of suburbs that run together. The idea that we must each stay within our own insulated post office locales is ludicrous. Wesfield currently pulls students from several "districts" as does Oakton and every other school. Why is it ok for these schools but when it comes to Reston, an invisible boundary is put up?
There is no logic in this argument.
As to those who comment that we've made our own bed, au contraire. Because we are not a town, we don't get to vote on these issues. They are just decided by do-gooders at the supervisor level. If they decided to install public housing in Oakton, residents there would have no power but to complain. They would have no voting power to stop it.
There is no logic in this argument.
As to those who comment that we've made our own bed, au contraire. Because we are not a town, we don't get to vote on these issues. They are just decided by do-gooders at the supervisor level. If they decided to install public housing in Oakton, residents there would have no power but to complain. They would have no voting power to stop it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:52AM
South Lakes Pyramid Parent - I will say it again - I think the concerns that most express about South Lakes are overblown but at the same time they are not irrational. A fair and balanced view, right?
And really, it is being merely contentious to summarily uestion the result of a poll conducted by a homeowners association. What can be expected? A Zogby like piece of research? Of course not. But look at the results, 1 percent and 3 percent, respectively, would favor a move to South Lakes? Look, face the facts - the poll is a fair reflection of community sentiment. Anecdotally, this is backed up by virtually everyone I meet in the affected areas - the prospect of a move just doesn't excite them. So I don't understand why you are defensive - even if there is nothing materially challenging or wrong about South Lakes - maybe a dubious proposition - maybe not - but assume that is the place is "great" - people in general are reluctant to change and resistance can fairly be chalked up to just that alone.
What South Lakes really needs to do is to go out of their way to demonstrate that they can meet the educational needs of the new population. The IB program just doesn't do that - it can serve a small minority of good students that really can put in the work - which is considerable. But the IB program does not serve the bread and butter kids of Oakton, Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, etc. well, Who are the bread and butter kids? Reasonably bright and competent, well balanced, with skills in different areas. In a nutshell, people that go to schools like JMU - good, competent but not highly competitive. This population needs the flexibility inherent with a good AP program - it permits, for example, the kid with language arts strengths to take the ap in those areas, get through in moderate math and science courses, and matriculate to a school like JMU by playing on their strengths. And it permits a kid (most often boys) to max out in calculus so they can prepare for a comp sci degree while taking english and history classes that don't crush them. The IB program doesn't do this nearly as well (not a knock on the IB program - an excellent program - but not right for this population). If I were in SL's shoes, I right now would be hiring to get experienced AP teachers - and go out of my way to say we are going to serve this population. I would also continue to be as up front as the school has been (and kudos to them) and say, look we are going to continue to take discipline and conduct problems seriously - more seriously perhaps than surrounding schools - even if it results in us having higher statistics than others. Let the parents know that the school will be uber responsive to their concerns. These suggestions are all easier said than done - there is a status quo in terms of existing teacher retention that is always difficult and there is a lot of continual resistance to being as up front about the behavior problem. But SL parents don't have the luxury of sitting back and being "offended" by those that don't like the school. Support the school in pro-actively changing, and look at the problem from the perspective of the counterparty being asked to change.
And really, it is being merely contentious to summarily uestion the result of a poll conducted by a homeowners association. What can be expected? A Zogby like piece of research? Of course not. But look at the results, 1 percent and 3 percent, respectively, would favor a move to South Lakes? Look, face the facts - the poll is a fair reflection of community sentiment. Anecdotally, this is backed up by virtually everyone I meet in the affected areas - the prospect of a move just doesn't excite them. So I don't understand why you are defensive - even if there is nothing materially challenging or wrong about South Lakes - maybe a dubious proposition - maybe not - but assume that is the place is "great" - people in general are reluctant to change and resistance can fairly be chalked up to just that alone.
What South Lakes really needs to do is to go out of their way to demonstrate that they can meet the educational needs of the new population. The IB program just doesn't do that - it can serve a small minority of good students that really can put in the work - which is considerable. But the IB program does not serve the bread and butter kids of Oakton, Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, etc. well, Who are the bread and butter kids? Reasonably bright and competent, well balanced, with skills in different areas. In a nutshell, people that go to schools like JMU - good, competent but not highly competitive. This population needs the flexibility inherent with a good AP program - it permits, for example, the kid with language arts strengths to take the ap in those areas, get through in moderate math and science courses, and matriculate to a school like JMU by playing on their strengths. And it permits a kid (most often boys) to max out in calculus so they can prepare for a comp sci degree while taking english and history classes that don't crush them. The IB program doesn't do this nearly as well (not a knock on the IB program - an excellent program - but not right for this population). If I were in SL's shoes, I right now would be hiring to get experienced AP teachers - and go out of my way to say we are going to serve this population. I would also continue to be as up front as the school has been (and kudos to them) and say, look we are going to continue to take discipline and conduct problems seriously - more seriously perhaps than surrounding schools - even if it results in us having higher statistics than others. Let the parents know that the school will be uber responsive to their concerns. These suggestions are all easier said than done - there is a status quo in terms of existing teacher retention that is always difficult and there is a lot of continual resistance to being as up front about the behavior problem. But SL parents don't have the luxury of sitting back and being "offended" by those that don't like the school. Support the school in pro-actively changing, and look at the problem from the perspective of the counterparty being asked to change.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:01AM
Quantum,
We are certainly willing to look at our problems. That's the only way they can be fixed. But, do you really think we can be non-defensive when people keep posting things that are patently false? When they will not acknowledge that there may in fact be good things about South Lakes or about the redistricting?
It works both ways.
Also, I think what you post about the IB program is untrue. That's not defensiveness, it's just not true according to what I've heard from SL parents. If I don't agree with you, that doesn't mean I'm being defensive. But I also would be happy to consider AP for South Lakes, especially if that would make incomers happy. But I don't see a big difference between the programs. Not defensive, just my opinion.
We are certainly willing to look at our problems. That's the only way they can be fixed. But, do you really think we can be non-defensive when people keep posting things that are patently false? When they will not acknowledge that there may in fact be good things about South Lakes or about the redistricting?
It works both ways.
Also, I think what you post about the IB program is untrue. That's not defensiveness, it's just not true according to what I've heard from SL parents. If I don't agree with you, that doesn't mean I'm being defensive. But I also would be happy to consider AP for South Lakes, especially if that would make incomers happy. But I don't see a big difference between the programs. Not defensive, just my opinion.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:06AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> Not sure what your point is. I have said lots
> about our school. No one appears to want to hear
> it unless it meshes with their preconceived
> notions.
My point is, you have turned from so eloquently talking about your school to spitting at everyone else here. Your banter is no longer about your school but refuting what everyone else has to say and/or just plain attacking the individual.
We get it, you love your school. But we are not looking for a red carpet. I think you have figured this out. Enough said.
And, yes, we will use whatever we have, to stay at our own schools. Whether it is skewed, unskewed, scientific, childish, etc...we are fighting this in the same manner are school board members have chosen to fight.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> Not sure what your point is. I have said lots
> about our school. No one appears to want to hear
> it unless it meshes with their preconceived
> notions.
My point is, you have turned from so eloquently talking about your school to spitting at everyone else here. Your banter is no longer about your school but refuting what everyone else has to say and/or just plain attacking the individual.
We get it, you love your school. But we are not looking for a red carpet. I think you have figured this out. Enough said.
And, yes, we will use whatever we have, to stay at our own schools. Whether it is skewed, unskewed, scientific, childish, etc...we are fighting this in the same manner are school board members have chosen to fight.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:09AM
Quantum,
Surveys can also skew the results based on the question that is asked. Of course most people are going to say they prefer the school they are going to.
So, if asked "Would you prefer...this or that school" might get a different response than "Would you consider South Lakes if you could get (AP or whatever other condition you want)"
Also Franklin Farm is not that close to SL, and their high school is close to them. Survey Fox Mill and you might get a different response.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 11:09AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Surveys can also skew the results based on the question that is asked. Of course most people are going to say they prefer the school they are going to.
So, if asked "Would you prefer...this or that school" might get a different response than "Would you consider South Lakes if you could get (AP or whatever other condition you want)"
Also Franklin Farm is not that close to SL, and their high school is close to them. Survey Fox Mill and you might get a different response.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 11:09AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:18AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum,
> We are certainly willing to look at our problems.
> That's the only way they can be fixed. But, do you
> really think we can be non-defensive when people
> keep posting things that are patently false? When
> they will not acknowledge that there may in fact
> be good things about South Lakes or about the
> redistricting?
>
> It works both ways.
>
> Also, I think what you post about the IB program
> is untrue. That's not defensiveness, it's just
> not true according to what I've heard from SL
> parents. If I don't agree with you, that doesn't
> mean I'm being defensive. But I also would be
> happy to consider AP for South Lakes, especially
> if that would make incomers happy. But I don't
> see a big difference between the programs. Not
> defensive, just my opinion.
So, what things do you claim as patently false Pyramid Parent? grandfathering? survey results? non-SL community sentiment? These are the examples you choose to slam. These have nothing to do with performance at your school.
Quantum, I do agree with your IB assessment. It is recognized as an all-or-nothing program. It does little to serve the greater school population at huge expense.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum,
> We are certainly willing to look at our problems.
> That's the only way they can be fixed. But, do you
> really think we can be non-defensive when people
> keep posting things that are patently false? When
> they will not acknowledge that there may in fact
> be good things about South Lakes or about the
> redistricting?
>
> It works both ways.
>
> Also, I think what you post about the IB program
> is untrue. That's not defensiveness, it's just
> not true according to what I've heard from SL
> parents. If I don't agree with you, that doesn't
> mean I'm being defensive. But I also would be
> happy to consider AP for South Lakes, especially
> if that would make incomers happy. But I don't
> see a big difference between the programs. Not
> defensive, just my opinion.
So, what things do you claim as patently false Pyramid Parent? grandfathering? survey results? non-SL community sentiment? These are the examples you choose to slam. These have nothing to do with performance at your school.
Quantum, I do agree with your IB assessment. It is recognized as an all-or-nothing program. It does little to serve the greater school population at huge expense.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLPyramid
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:19AM
I cannot believe the kind of scare tactics, false information and blatant racism from SL opponents.
I am a parent of an elementary age student in the SL Pyramid, and I live a stone's throw from South Lakes High. Let me tell you what I see:
Four South Lakes seniors ('07) from my little neighborhood of 50-some houses applied - and are attending - Uva this year. There were two more the year before that. The only "gangs" these kids were part of were the band, the orchestra, the baseball team and the National Honor Society.
My son participates in the neighborhood RTSA swim team. The majority of the 15-18 year old swimmers and coaches on the team go to South Lakes. Across the board, they are great kids - putting in long hours working with the young swimmers, showing community spirit, and generally being wonderful examples of motivated teenagers. By the way, ask them and they will tell you they love going to South Lakes.
I see middle- and upper-middle class parents who look at the racial and economic diversity at the school as a positive thing. And let me stress here - minorities do not equal gangs and violence as so many on this board claim. When you have kids of all types together, it teaches tolerence and values - things that are going to prepare our children for the real world in a way that coveting your classmates' BMW won't.
By the way, I went to a high school that was almost 100 percent rich white kids. The school had an outstanding academic record and sent loads of kids to Ivy League schools. Meanwhile, I chose to slack off and barely graduated. Moral of the story: you get out of school what you put into it, no matter where you are. So detractors should stop saying South Lakes is a "bad" school and start understanding that good kids will do well no matter where they are.
I am a parent of an elementary age student in the SL Pyramid, and I live a stone's throw from South Lakes High. Let me tell you what I see:
Four South Lakes seniors ('07) from my little neighborhood of 50-some houses applied - and are attending - Uva this year. There were two more the year before that. The only "gangs" these kids were part of were the band, the orchestra, the baseball team and the National Honor Society.
My son participates in the neighborhood RTSA swim team. The majority of the 15-18 year old swimmers and coaches on the team go to South Lakes. Across the board, they are great kids - putting in long hours working with the young swimmers, showing community spirit, and generally being wonderful examples of motivated teenagers. By the way, ask them and they will tell you they love going to South Lakes.
I see middle- and upper-middle class parents who look at the racial and economic diversity at the school as a positive thing. And let me stress here - minorities do not equal gangs and violence as so many on this board claim. When you have kids of all types together, it teaches tolerence and values - things that are going to prepare our children for the real world in a way that coveting your classmates' BMW won't.
By the way, I went to a high school that was almost 100 percent rich white kids. The school had an outstanding academic record and sent loads of kids to Ivy League schools. Meanwhile, I chose to slack off and barely graduated. Moral of the story: you get out of school what you put into it, no matter where you are. So detractors should stop saying South Lakes is a "bad" school and start understanding that good kids will do well no matter where they are.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:21AM
Cricket,
I do get that you guys don't want to move. That it's not necessarily about South Lakes. You weren't even the one I was talking about as bashing SL.
I do get that you guys don't want to move. That it's not necessarily about South Lakes. You weren't even the one I was talking about as bashing SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:21AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum,
> Surveys can also skew the results based on the
> question that is asked. Of course most people are
> going to say they prefer the school they are going
> to.
>
> So, if asked "Would you prefer...this or that
> school" might get a different response than
> "Would you consider South Lakes if you could get
> (AP or whatever other condition you want)"
>
> Also Franklin Farm is not that close to SL, and
> their high school is close to them. Survey Fox
> Mill and you might get a different response.
You should get a copy of the survey questions before you continue on. The questions were not slanted. And relook at the early posts on domino-ing high schools. Franklin Farm is part of a possible domino slide to fix your under-enrollment.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum,
> Surveys can also skew the results based on the
> question that is asked. Of course most people are
> going to say they prefer the school they are going
> to.
>
> So, if asked "Would you prefer...this or that
> school" might get a different response than
> "Would you consider South Lakes if you could get
> (AP or whatever other condition you want)"
>
> Also Franklin Farm is not that close to SL, and
> their high school is close to them. Survey Fox
> Mill and you might get a different response.
You should get a copy of the survey questions before you continue on. The questions were not slanted. And relook at the early posts on domino-ing high schools. Franklin Farm is part of a possible domino slide to fix your under-enrollment.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:23AM
Quantum,
Why do you assume that average students can't take selective IB courses, just as with the AP program? In fact, many students at SL take IB courses without getting the diploma - I don't have the stats in front of me, but you are welcome to investigate. Many of those students matriculate to schools like JMU, Tech, and CNU. If you don't yet have children in high school, you may want to rethink your view of what it takes to get into those aforementioned schools. To be competitive, students must take several AP/IB classes and perhaps pursue the diplomas to be considered for admission at those schools, which really do take many above-average students.
As to meeting the needs of the incoming population, why do you assume that a similar population does not already exist at the school? I would venture to say that 50% of the students are from very similar backgrounds as those potential incoming students. Newsflash: their educational needs are being met!!! My children both recently attended SL and both are now attending the University of Virginia. Many of their peers are attending similar institutions of higher learning.
Parents like me have striven to ensure that our children were receiving a good education at SL. If they weren't, do you think we would be there?
Why do you assume that average students can't take selective IB courses, just as with the AP program? In fact, many students at SL take IB courses without getting the diploma - I don't have the stats in front of me, but you are welcome to investigate. Many of those students matriculate to schools like JMU, Tech, and CNU. If you don't yet have children in high school, you may want to rethink your view of what it takes to get into those aforementioned schools. To be competitive, students must take several AP/IB classes and perhaps pursue the diplomas to be considered for admission at those schools, which really do take many above-average students.
As to meeting the needs of the incoming population, why do you assume that a similar population does not already exist at the school? I would venture to say that 50% of the students are from very similar backgrounds as those potential incoming students. Newsflash: their educational needs are being met!!! My children both recently attended SL and both are now attending the University of Virginia. Many of their peers are attending similar institutions of higher learning.
Parents like me have striven to ensure that our children were receiving a good education at SL. If they weren't, do you think we would be there?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:24AM
Cricket,
One more time--the patently false things I'm referring to are the SAT statistics, and the characterization of SL as gang infested.
Do you have a source for the questionnaire?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 11:26AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
One more time--the patently false things I'm referring to are the SAT statistics, and the characterization of SL as gang infested.
Do you have a source for the questionnaire?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 11:26AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
voter
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:37AM
Franklin farm took a survey all 1777 residence were provided a chance to send in their choices. My numbers here are estimates as I don't have the exact figure in front of me. Of the responders 96% wanted to stay at the school curently enrolled or districted for (Chantilly or Oakton) If a redistrict had to take place I believe 97% chose Chantilly if they were currently at Oakton and 98% chose Oakton if they were currently at Chantilly. The other 2 or 3 % in either didn't care or chose SL. Overwhelmingly FF does not want SLHS. There are many reasons,and they vary per family and that is their choice and they/we/me have a right to that opinion. If I wanted SL I would have bought there, you have had some positives come out of there Grant Hill and Alan Webb two fine athletes. My concern is seperating my kids one at Oakton and another one who knows where if there is a redistricting. How can this be good for a family? How can this be good for a child who has grown up going to Courgar games and looking forward to participating on one of the athletic teams there? Also AP is a huge factor and there is a great difference in that and IB. Look at college web sites to see what is weighted higher and more acceptable colleges, hands down it is AP. Will you find an exception YES, but please don't put out that college because they are far and few.
It has been said many times, you (SLHS)are all good to go, no one is moving from SL, keep your school as is and help us out that want to stay where we are and get out and vote on November 6th. Then we can get a school board in there that is willing to listen and do a full county boundry study that is fair to all county residence not just the poor/rich/white/black/asian/hispanic, etc...
Thank you!!
It has been said many times, you (SLHS)are all good to go, no one is moving from SL, keep your school as is and help us out that want to stay where we are and get out and vote on November 6th. Then we can get a school board in there that is willing to listen and do a full county boundry study that is fair to all county residence not just the poor/rich/white/black/asian/hispanic, etc...
Thank you!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:41AM
05stillalive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
>
> No one who had been in Bruce Butler's class was
> still there by the time he became principal. He
> was sub-school principal of 2001 and 2005. Did
> this concert take place in 2005?
He was a subschool principal during railly's last year and had followed that class from the time they were freshman. And this girl wasn't any mousey haired 5'0" waif who easily lost in a crowd. She was tall & thin with shocking bright red hair who played first chair percussion. Hardly a physical presence that blended into the wall paper.
***
During Railly’s Reign of Terror, parents of SL kids gave each other a blue tee shirt with green and white letters when their last child graduated from SL:
On the front it said “If you tell me to go to hell, I’ll tell you I’ve already been there, . . .
And on the back “my kids went to South Lakes.”
If Bruce doesn’t make some changes in instructional and coaching personnel soon, those t-shirts will reappear at graduation this year.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
>
> No one who had been in Bruce Butler's class was
> still there by the time he became principal. He
> was sub-school principal of 2001 and 2005. Did
> this concert take place in 2005?
He was a subschool principal during railly's last year and had followed that class from the time they were freshman. And this girl wasn't any mousey haired 5'0" waif who easily lost in a crowd. She was tall & thin with shocking bright red hair who played first chair percussion. Hardly a physical presence that blended into the wall paper.
***
During Railly’s Reign of Terror, parents of SL kids gave each other a blue tee shirt with green and white letters when their last child graduated from SL:
On the front it said “If you tell me to go to hell, I’ll tell you I’ve already been there, . . .
And on the back “my kids went to South Lakes.”
If Bruce doesn’t make some changes in instructional and coaching personnel soon, those t-shirts will reappear at graduation this year.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:45AM
Voter, if you think that the only positives to come out of SL are Grant Hill and Alan Webb, then you are sadly misinformed. SL produces many wonderful students with great success stories, as I'm sure Oakton and Chantilly do.
Can you present some links to college web sites that favor AP over IB when it comes to admission? I would like to visit them. My childrens' university,UVA, "loves the IB program," a direct quote from John Blackburn, Dean of Admissions.
If you think we are "good to go", why then are we not good enough for you!
Can you present some links to college web sites that favor AP over IB when it comes to admission? I would like to visit them. My childrens' university,UVA, "loves the IB program," a direct quote from John Blackburn, Dean of Admissions.
If you think we are "good to go", why then are we not good enough for you!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:46AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am amazed at the bad facts and inaccuracies
> posted on this site. One poster can't even get
> his facts straight about where Bruce Butler
> attended high school. In fact, he attended Flint
> Hill Preparatory (with my husband) where he played
> baseball and basketball.
I have heard Bruce claimed to be a Sl alum. Go argue with him.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am amazed at the bad facts and inaccuracies
> posted on this site. One poster can't even get
> his facts straight about where Bruce Butler
> attended high school. In fact, he attended Flint
> Hill Preparatory (with my husband) where he played
> baseball and basketball.
I have heard Bruce claimed to be a Sl alum. Go argue with him.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:48AM
SL Pyramid Parent, FFHOA's education committee can probably send you a copy of their survey. It use to be posted on their website. Not anymore.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:55AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum, I do agree with your IB assessment. It is
> recognized as an all-or-nothing program. It does
> little to serve the greater school population at
> huge expense.
I hate IB but it should known that a student doesn't have to pursue an IB diploma to take an IB course in just one subject. The problems are the test result don't come back from Zurich in time to advance place in college. The less intense material, disproportionate homework load and eurocentric socialistic world view have been discussed earlier.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum, I do agree with your IB assessment. It is
> recognized as an all-or-nothing program. It does
> little to serve the greater school population at
> huge expense.
I hate IB but it should known that a student doesn't have to pursue an IB diploma to take an IB course in just one subject. The problems are the test result don't come back from Zurich in time to advance place in college. The less intense material, disproportionate homework load and eurocentric socialistic world view have been discussed earlier.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another SL Parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:59AM
Re: the IB program and the misconception that it won't work for all those above average students at Oakton, Westfield, Chantilly etc. that simply is not true. I have a student who takes 4 IB classes but will not get an IB diploma because science is not her "thing" and she takes "regular science. I have a son who took only a handful of IB course and had no problem getting accepted to a "more selective" school. And, newsflash to many of you I'm sure, colleges and universities add points to the overall IB grade which ends up boosting your child's GPA...Yep, it really is all about the kids who are going to succeed will succeed no matter what school they graduate from.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:59AM
Voter,
Agreed. A fairer process is in order, and one that will factor in the kinds of curriculum issues raised here (AP). But would you then accept the result if your school ends up being redistricted?
Agreed. A fairer process is in order, and one that will factor in the kinds of curriculum issues raised here (AP). But would you then accept the result if your school ends up being redistricted?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:02PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many of those students matriculate
> to schools like JMU, Tech, and CNU.
You know CNU doesn't belong in that sentence. I know Trible is trying to make it more selective and that it's the new "safety" school for Fairfax kids but they'll have to do better than a four year graduation rate of 13% to be in the same sentence as JMU and Tech with four year rates in the 60-70%. Radford has a higher rate than CNU.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many of those students matriculate
> to schools like JMU, Tech, and CNU.
You know CNU doesn't belong in that sentence. I know Trible is trying to make it more selective and that it's the new "safety" school for Fairfax kids but they'll have to do better than a four year graduation rate of 13% to be in the same sentence as JMU and Tech with four year rates in the 60-70%. Radford has a higher rate than CNU.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:04PM
Thomas More, you really should stop posting. You "heard" that Bruce "claimed" to be a SL alum? That is called hearsay, not fact.
Did you ever take IB? You have not a clue about the test scores and the timeline. Test scores are received in time for accreditation. My children and their credits are proof.
If you don't have facts to back up your arguments, only rumor and innuendo (translation: gossip), then please stop wasting bandwidth on this site.
Did you ever take IB? You have not a clue about the test scores and the timeline. Test scores are received in time for accreditation. My children and their credits are proof.
If you don't have facts to back up your arguments, only rumor and innuendo (translation: gossip), then please stop wasting bandwidth on this site.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:07PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Quantum,
> > Surveys can also skew the results based on the
> > question that is asked. Of course most people
> are
> > going to say they prefer the school they are
> going
> > to.
> >
> > So, if asked "Would you prefer...this or that
> > school" might get a different response than
> > "Would you consider South Lakes if you could
> get
> > (AP or whatever other condition you want)"
> >
> > Also Franklin Farm is not that close to SL, and
> > their high school is close to them. Survey Fox
> > Mill and you might get a different response.
>
>
>
> You should get a copy of the survey questions
> before you continue on. The questions were not
> slanted. And relook at the early posts on
> domino-ing high schools. Franklin Farm is part of
> a possible domino slide to fix your
> under-enrollment.
My underenrollment? I and the rest of SL parents did not create this situation. I didn't even live here 4 years ago. And you guys wonder why we get defensive.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Quantum,
> > Surveys can also skew the results based on the
> > question that is asked. Of course most people
> are
> > going to say they prefer the school they are
> going
> > to.
> >
> > So, if asked "Would you prefer...this or that
> > school" might get a different response than
> > "Would you consider South Lakes if you could
> get
> > (AP or whatever other condition you want)"
> >
> > Also Franklin Farm is not that close to SL, and
> > their high school is close to them. Survey Fox
> > Mill and you might get a different response.
>
>
>
> You should get a copy of the survey questions
> before you continue on. The questions were not
> slanted. And relook at the early posts on
> domino-ing high schools. Franklin Farm is part of
> a possible domino slide to fix your
> under-enrollment.
My underenrollment? I and the rest of SL parents did not create this situation. I didn't even live here 4 years ago. And you guys wonder why we get defensive.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:07PM
T More, you missed the whole point of the post about second-tier schools...why am I not surprised.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:16PM
Cricket,
"Our" underenrollment was not caused by us, but by previous school boards that did exactly to us what they are now doing to you. Little by little neighborhoods that formerly attended our pyramid were redistricted to others, most notably North Reston students to Herndon. We felt just as powerless then as you do now.
Guess What? We made the best of the situation and adapted, and now have a great school that has made great strides in the last two years. Guess what? The school can and will be even better. Why? Because of the great administrators, teachers, and families invested in the school. The same kind of families that are in your neighborhood - those that want their children to strive and succeed.
Guess what? If your neighborhood is redistricted to SL, the parents will do all possible to make the situation work, and in time they will come to love the school, cherish the games, etc.
All we are asking is that populations previously removed be restored to us and that people approach this discussion with cool heads, facts, and logical arguments. Not rumor, innuendo, racism, and ignorance as I have seen displayed in some posts on this site.
"Our" underenrollment was not caused by us, but by previous school boards that did exactly to us what they are now doing to you. Little by little neighborhoods that formerly attended our pyramid were redistricted to others, most notably North Reston students to Herndon. We felt just as powerless then as you do now.
Guess What? We made the best of the situation and adapted, and now have a great school that has made great strides in the last two years. Guess what? The school can and will be even better. Why? Because of the great administrators, teachers, and families invested in the school. The same kind of families that are in your neighborhood - those that want their children to strive and succeed.
Guess what? If your neighborhood is redistricted to SL, the parents will do all possible to make the situation work, and in time they will come to love the school, cherish the games, etc.
All we are asking is that populations previously removed be restored to us and that people approach this discussion with cool heads, facts, and logical arguments. Not rumor, innuendo, racism, and ignorance as I have seen displayed in some posts on this site.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:28PM
Another SL Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> newsflash to many of you
> I'm sure, colleges and universities add points to
> the overall IB grade which ends up boosting your
> child's GPA.
That's true at about 100-150 of the 1400 colleges and universities in the U.S. Even the most ardent IB supporters acknowledge that.
Less than 20% of SL kids take an IB exam in any subject. Yet even those who eschew IB are getting into "selective" colleges.
> it really is all about the kids
> who are going to succeed will succeed no matter
> what school they graduate from.
Very true. But their high school can be a help or a hinderence. SL has been a hinderence for too long and hasn't gotten to the help side of the ledger fast enough.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> newsflash to many of you
> I'm sure, colleges and universities add points to
> the overall IB grade which ends up boosting your
> child's GPA.
That's true at about 100-150 of the 1400 colleges and universities in the U.S. Even the most ardent IB supporters acknowledge that.
Less than 20% of SL kids take an IB exam in any subject. Yet even those who eschew IB are getting into "selective" colleges.
> it really is all about the kids
> who are going to succeed will succeed no matter
> what school they graduate from.
Very true. But their high school can be a help or a hinderence. SL has been a hinderence for too long and hasn't gotten to the help side of the ledger fast enough.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:32PM
T More,
How do you "know" so much about SL?
How do you "know" so much about SL?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:33PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> T More, you missed the whole point of the post
> about second-tier schools...why am I not
> surprised.
I can find no one except you that thinkd VTech and JMU are "second tier" schools. They have graduation rates comparable to W&M and Mr. Jefferson's country club where the one thing your child is sure to learn is how to be a snob.
The problem with Virginia's public university system is that far too few have graduation rates comparable to W&M, VTech, JMU and wahoo land.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> T More, you missed the whole point of the post
> about second-tier schools...why am I not
> surprised.
I can find no one except you that thinkd VTech and JMU are "second tier" schools. They have graduation rates comparable to W&M and Mr. Jefferson's country club where the one thing your child is sure to learn is how to be a snob.
The problem with Virginia's public university system is that far too few have graduation rates comparable to W&M, VTech, JMU and wahoo land.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:36PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> T More,
>
> How do you "know" so much about SL?
I think I wrote in an earlier post that I've had a child there almost continuously for 11 years and have lived in its attendance area for 23 years.
How do you not know about the things I've posted.
More later
-------------------------------------------------------
> T More,
>
> How do you "know" so much about SL?
I think I wrote in an earlier post that I've had a child there almost continuously for 11 years and have lived in its attendance area for 23 years.
How do you not know about the things I've posted.
More later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
05stillalive
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:40PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was a subschool principal during railly's last
> year and had followed that class from the time
> they were freshman.
Im aware of when he was subschool principal. I was in that class. My point is that based on what you said in a previous post (that the concert took place a few weeks prior to the talent show in which Bruce Butler played the guitar), it is not possible that this girl was in the class he was subschool principal of (mine). It was not the same year, we had already graduated and he had already become principal of the school. The girl is younger than us.
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was a subschool principal during railly's last
> year and had followed that class from the time
> they were freshman.
Im aware of when he was subschool principal. I was in that class. My point is that based on what you said in a previous post (that the concert took place a few weeks prior to the talent show in which Bruce Butler played the guitar), it is not possible that this girl was in the class he was subschool principal of (mine). It was not the same year, we had already graduated and he had already become principal of the school. The girl is younger than us.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:43PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More, you really should stop posting. You
> "heard" that Bruce "claimed" to be a SL alum?
> That is called hearsay, not fact.
Reread the post. I heard it directly from Bruce. He said it in my presence.
> Did you ever take IB? You have not a clue about
> the test scores and the timeline. Test scores are
> received in time for accreditation. My children
> and their credits are proof.
My children have taken IB courses and didn't get the test results back in time to advance place at college. This happens to lots of IB students. I've reviewed the material myself and discussed them with teachers at South Lakes who have taught both AP and IB.
Any other questions?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More, you really should stop posting. You
> "heard" that Bruce "claimed" to be a SL alum?
> That is called hearsay, not fact.
Reread the post. I heard it directly from Bruce. He said it in my presence.
> Did you ever take IB? You have not a clue about
> the test scores and the timeline. Test scores are
> received in time for accreditation. My children
> and their credits are proof.
My children have taken IB courses and didn't get the test results back in time to advance place at college. This happens to lots of IB students. I've reviewed the material myself and discussed them with teachers at South Lakes who have taught both AP and IB.
Any other questions?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:47PM
05stillalive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > He was a subschool principal during railly's
> last
> > year and had followed that class from the time
> > they were freshman.
>
> Im aware of when he was subschool principal. I was
> in that class. My point is that based on what you
> said in a previous post (that the concert took
> place a few weeks prior to the talent show in
> which Bruce Butler played the guitar), it is not
> possible that this girl was in the class he was
> subschool principal of (mine). It was not the same
> year, we had already graduated and he had already
> become principal of the school. The girl is
> younger than us.
So even after being in the same building with this outstanding person for four years neither he nor you know her name?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > He was a subschool principal during railly's
> last
> > year and had followed that class from the time
> > they were freshman.
>
> Im aware of when he was subschool principal. I was
> in that class. My point is that based on what you
> said in a previous post (that the concert took
> place a few weeks prior to the talent show in
> which Bruce Butler played the guitar), it is not
> possible that this girl was in the class he was
> subschool principal of (mine). It was not the same
> year, we had already graduated and he had already
> become principal of the school. The girl is
> younger than us.
So even after being in the same building with this outstanding person for four years neither he nor you know her name?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:48PM
Actually, UVa's graduation rate is 84.8% for the class graduating this year, which is considerably higher than those you mentioned.
This forum is really for redistricting discussions, not to debate the merit of Virginia state schools, which are all excellent. I hope we can get back to the subject at hand.
This forum is really for redistricting discussions, not to debate the merit of Virginia state schools, which are all excellent. I hope we can get back to the subject at hand.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:59PM
Thomas More Wrote:
>
> Any other questions?
Yes - why the negative comments for UVA? Did you go to VT or just a bad experience?
>
> Any other questions?
Yes - why the negative comments for UVA? Did you go to VT or just a bad experience?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
05stillalive
()
Date: October 25, 2007 12:59PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So even after being in the same building with this
> outstanding person for four years neither he nor
> you know her name?
How do you know I don't know the girl's name?
Do you?
Are you really going to attack me for not knowing the name of every one of the some 3500 kids who set foot in SL during my time there? You are the one who wrongly claimed that Butler should know her name because she was in his class when he was subschool principal. Obviously he should know her name if she is such an outstanding band member and after that concert he probably did. Im simply stating that your argument was wrong. Im sorry that you've gotten so defensive about being found wrong on one of your so carefully crafter points. You do not represent the views of everyone at South Lakes. You are one person. Some may agree with you and many disagree so please stop acting as the authority on the school. You are not the only one on this board who has been involved with the school for over a decade.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So even after being in the same building with this
> outstanding person for four years neither he nor
> you know her name?
How do you know I don't know the girl's name?
Do you?
Are you really going to attack me for not knowing the name of every one of the some 3500 kids who set foot in SL during my time there? You are the one who wrongly claimed that Butler should know her name because she was in his class when he was subschool principal. Obviously he should know her name if she is such an outstanding band member and after that concert he probably did. Im simply stating that your argument was wrong. Im sorry that you've gotten so defensive about being found wrong on one of your so carefully crafter points. You do not represent the views of everyone at South Lakes. You are one person. Some may agree with you and many disagree so please stop acting as the authority on the school. You are not the only one on this board who has been involved with the school for over a decade.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:00PM
Thomas More,
Just because you had a bad experience with South Lakes, as regrettable as that may be, does not mean that others have. We are discussing the merits of the whole school, not just your opinion on it or on some colleges about which you have written disparaging remarks.
I am sure that if I went to an AP school I could identify several parents whose children had not been well-served by the school, but that is not an indictment of the whole school.
I think we should stick to facts and leave the personal insults out of the argument.
Just because you had a bad experience with South Lakes, as regrettable as that may be, does not mean that others have. We are discussing the merits of the whole school, not just your opinion on it or on some colleges about which you have written disparaging remarks.
I am sure that if I went to an AP school I could identify several parents whose children had not been well-served by the school, but that is not an indictment of the whole school.
I think we should stick to facts and leave the personal insults out of the argument.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:15PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This forum is really for redistricting
> discussions, not to debate the merit of Virginia
> state schools, which are all excellent. I hope we
> can get back to the subject at hand.
Most happy to my dear cavalier friend, you're the one who started ranking, or should I say ranking on, Virginia's other top tier universities.
for those who might be interested
JMU 4 yr 60% (I was thinking of its 6 yr rate 70%)
VTech 43% (Again, I was remembering their 6 yr rate 74%)
ODU 17%
VCU 19%
CNU 13%
longwood 39%
GMU 26%
Radford 34%
Mary Washington 62%
W&M 79%
Really, SLVerity, they're all excellent? Compare these rates to NC, MD or PA public univeristy systems and Va should be embarassed.
But back to the redistricting debate
-------------------------------------------------------
> This forum is really for redistricting
> discussions, not to debate the merit of Virginia
> state schools, which are all excellent. I hope we
> can get back to the subject at hand.
Most happy to my dear cavalier friend, you're the one who started ranking, or should I say ranking on, Virginia's other top tier universities.
for those who might be interested
JMU 4 yr 60% (I was thinking of its 6 yr rate 70%)
VTech 43% (Again, I was remembering their 6 yr rate 74%)
ODU 17%
VCU 19%
CNU 13%
longwood 39%
GMU 26%
Radford 34%
Mary Washington 62%
W&M 79%
Really, SLVerity, they're all excellent? Compare these rates to NC, MD or PA public univeristy systems and Va should be embarassed.
But back to the redistricting debate
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:17PM
I only meant South Lakes' underenrollment. The school for which the SL scribes represent. You have acknowledge this in previous posts so why not use "your's." It's not that big of a deal.
SL posters seemed to be fascinated with this "...rumor, innuendo, racism, and ignorance as I have seen displayed in some posts on this site...." You folks continue to bring it up in every post, yet it has been pages of recent material since we have seen any other post fall pray to what you accuse. These accusatory battle cries you continue to emanate have become your self-licking ice cream cone. Whoa is SL. Really, I think this whole thread is probably near done. What more can be said that hasn't already been said except what we have to say about each other?
SL posters seemed to be fascinated with this "...rumor, innuendo, racism, and ignorance as I have seen displayed in some posts on this site...." You folks continue to bring it up in every post, yet it has been pages of recent material since we have seen any other post fall pray to what you accuse. These accusatory battle cries you continue to emanate have become your self-licking ice cream cone. Whoa is SL. Really, I think this whole thread is probably near done. What more can be said that hasn't already been said except what we have to say about each other?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:17PM
HooTribe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > Any other questions?
>
>
> Yes - why the negative comments for UVA? Did you
> go to VT or just a bad experience?
I interview UVA grads for my business and haven't found one yet who can compare to the GMU grads.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > Any other questions?
>
>
> Yes - why the negative comments for UVA? Did you
> go to VT or just a bad experience?
I interview UVA grads for my business and haven't found one yet who can compare to the GMU grads.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:26PM
05stillalive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obviously he should know her
> name if she is such an outstanding band member.
Thank you. You've made my point better than I did.
You are one person. Some may agree
> with you and many disagree so please stop acting
> as the authority on the school. You are not the
> only one on this board who has been involved with
> the school for over a decade.
Everyone else is free to share their points of praise for SL.
I have praised the mutually supportive and tolerant student body on this blog many times. They are terrific and achieve great things in spite of the disfunctional school. They deserve even more credit for achieving so much while suffering under such a handicap.
Railly cause the great teachers to leave and dreck was left behind.
If you disagree feel free to give specifics.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obviously he should know her
> name if she is such an outstanding band member.
Thank you. You've made my point better than I did.
You are one person. Some may agree
> with you and many disagree so please stop acting
> as the authority on the school. You are not the
> only one on this board who has been involved with
> the school for over a decade.
Everyone else is free to share their points of praise for SL.
I have praised the mutually supportive and tolerant student body on this blog many times. They are terrific and achieve great things in spite of the disfunctional school. They deserve even more credit for achieving so much while suffering under such a handicap.
Railly cause the great teachers to leave and dreck was left behind.
If you disagree feel free to give specifics.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:37PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
>
> Just because you had a bad experience with South
> Lakes, as regrettable as that may be, does not
> mean that others have. We are discussing the
> merits of the whole school, not just your opinion
> on it or on some colleges about which you have
> written disparaging remarks.
Dear friend I have and 4 kids attend SL over those 11 years and my opinion is not just based on their experience but on the experience of dozens of other families that we have known over a quarter century in Reston. Few of them have much positive to say about SL except for the student body which is regarded as terrific.
> I am sure that if I went to an AP school I could
> identify several parents whose children had not
> been well-served by the school, but that is not an
> indictment of the whole school.
Given the breadth of experience I have seen and have shared with the parents of my children's cohorts, I think I can fairly conclude that yours is the exception experience. But others are free to chime in.
> I think we should stick to facts and leave the
> personal insults out of the argument.
Please forgive me for what were intended as minor needle pricks.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
>
> Just because you had a bad experience with South
> Lakes, as regrettable as that may be, does not
> mean that others have. We are discussing the
> merits of the whole school, not just your opinion
> on it or on some colleges about which you have
> written disparaging remarks.
Dear friend I have and 4 kids attend SL over those 11 years and my opinion is not just based on their experience but on the experience of dozens of other families that we have known over a quarter century in Reston. Few of them have much positive to say about SL except for the student body which is regarded as terrific.
> I am sure that if I went to an AP school I could
> identify several parents whose children had not
> been well-served by the school, but that is not an
> indictment of the whole school.
Given the breadth of experience I have seen and have shared with the parents of my children's cohorts, I think I can fairly conclude that yours is the exception experience. But others are free to chime in.
> I think we should stick to facts and leave the
> personal insults out of the argument.
Please forgive me for what were intended as minor needle pricks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:41PM
Cricket,
A lot more can be said. We are providing you with facts regarding SL and our experiences there. That you choose to ignore them says much about the speciousness of your argument. When provided you will some excellent background on the subject you chose to ignore it and instead accuse us of race-baiting or some such nonsense- "self-licking ice cream cone battle cry????"
I would challenge you to find disparaging comments made by SL posters about other schools. We are not spreading innuendo (yes, I know it's a big word) about Oakton or Westfield or Madison, because we would not presume and it is not relevant to the subject at hand. If we were to employ some of the tactics used on this thread, we would have to assume that all Oakton students are drunks based on one drunk-driving accident or all students from Westfield are mentally deranged, based on two graduates who have committed murder. But that wouldn't be fair, now, would it?
Yet, many here have focused on isolated incidents to disparage a whole school and community. I have seen posts about supposed prostitution rings at Langston Hughes, gang activity rampant in South Lakes halls, melees in the halls, etc. In addition, I have seen the entire school judged by the test scores of one group.
Let's be fair and stick to the facts.
A lot more can be said. We are providing you with facts regarding SL and our experiences there. That you choose to ignore them says much about the speciousness of your argument. When provided you will some excellent background on the subject you chose to ignore it and instead accuse us of race-baiting or some such nonsense- "self-licking ice cream cone battle cry????"
I would challenge you to find disparaging comments made by SL posters about other schools. We are not spreading innuendo (yes, I know it's a big word) about Oakton or Westfield or Madison, because we would not presume and it is not relevant to the subject at hand. If we were to employ some of the tactics used on this thread, we would have to assume that all Oakton students are drunks based on one drunk-driving accident or all students from Westfield are mentally deranged, based on two graduates who have committed murder. But that wouldn't be fair, now, would it?
Yet, many here have focused on isolated incidents to disparage a whole school and community. I have seen posts about supposed prostitution rings at Langston Hughes, gang activity rampant in South Lakes halls, melees in the halls, etc. In addition, I have seen the entire school judged by the test scores of one group.
Let's be fair and stick to the facts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:49PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have
> seen posts about supposed prostitution rings at
> Langston Hughes,
That actually happened. The story was reported in the Connection.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have
> seen posts about supposed prostitution rings at
> Langston Hughes,
That actually happened. The story was reported in the Connection.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:54PM
T More,
This shall be my last comment on the subject. We are not talking about the past here, but the present. You cannot ignore the positive things that have happened under Bruce Butler's short tenure, try as you might. You also might give him a little credit for stepping up to the challenge of the 'dreck' left by Reily. A school cannot be turned around in a few short months or even a few short years, but SL is on an upward trend.
This shall be my last comment on the subject. We are not talking about the past here, but the present. You cannot ignore the positive things that have happened under Bruce Butler's short tenure, try as you might. You also might give him a little credit for stepping up to the challenge of the 'dreck' left by Reily. A school cannot be turned around in a few short months or even a few short years, but SL is on an upward trend.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 01:57PM
Oh my Gosh. We are supposed to believe everything in the connection because??? Have you ever heard of sensational news reporting? I know all about the supposed prositution ring. The 'pimp' was a GT student. This happened at least 10 years ago, so I fail to see the relevance to the present discussion. Please stick to the present and leave your sour grapes behind.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:11PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> T More,
>
> This shall be my last comment on the subject. We
> are not talking about the past here, but the
> present.
Given the longevity of an instructional staff's tenure, unless serious pruning is undertaken, the past is the present and the future.
> You cannot ignore the positive things
> that have happened under Bruce Butler's short
> tenure, try as you might. You also might give him
> a little credit for stepping up to the challenge
> of the 'dreck' left by Reily. A school cannot be
> turned around in a few short months or even a few
> short years, but SL is on an upward trend.
And what exactly has been accomplished in these two years? What upward trend. Other than the appointment of Linda Jones as DSA over the objections of many in the SL community.
-------------------------------------------------------
> T More,
>
> This shall be my last comment on the subject. We
> are not talking about the past here, but the
> present.
Given the longevity of an instructional staff's tenure, unless serious pruning is undertaken, the past is the present and the future.
> You cannot ignore the positive things
> that have happened under Bruce Butler's short
> tenure, try as you might. You also might give him
> a little credit for stepping up to the challenge
> of the 'dreck' left by Reily. A school cannot be
> turned around in a few short months or even a few
> short years, but SL is on an upward trend.
And what exactly has been accomplished in these two years? What upward trend. Other than the appointment of Linda Jones as DSA over the objections of many in the SL community.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:14PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
>
> A lot more can be said. We are providing you with
> facts regarding SL and our experiences there.
> That you choose to ignore them says much about the
> speciousness of your argument. When provided you
> will some excellent background on the subject you
> chose to ignore it and instead accuse us of
> race-baiting or some such nonsense- "self-licking
> ice cream cone battle cry????"
>
> I would challenge you to find disparaging comments
> made by SL posters about other schools. We are
> not spreading innuendo (yes, I know it's a big
> word) about Oakton or Westfield or Madison,
> because we would not presume and it is not
> relevant to the subject at hand. If we were to
> employ some of the tactics used on this thread, we
> would have to assume that all Oakton students are
> drunks based on one drunk-driving accident or all
> students from Westfield are mentally deranged,
> based on two graduates who have committed murder.
> But that wouldn't be fair, now, would it?
>
> Yet, many here have focused on isolated incidents
> to disparage a whole school and community. I have
> seen posts about supposed prostitution rings at
> Langston Hughes, gang activity rampant in South
> Lakes halls, melees in the halls, etc. In
> addition, I have seen the entire school judged by
> the test scores of one group.
>
> Let's be fair and stick to the facts.
And all along I have listened to your facts. It is only when you start suggesting that everyone else's facts aren't...is when I and others start to ignore what you have to say. By insinuating the rest of us are wrong, you leave us to believe that nothing you have said or have left to say has merit. You don't want challenges. You don't want discussion. You just want to be right. "rumor, innuendo, racism, and ignorance" these are your words, not mine. This is what you have chosen to turn our words into. And would I be wrong to say the retort will come back to the same...We are wrong. We are bad, bad people.
Oh yeah, and just how big of a word is innuendo? hmmmm? I don't get it. And also, I think that you were the one to bring those sour grapes out of the bag, again.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
>
> A lot more can be said. We are providing you with
> facts regarding SL and our experiences there.
> That you choose to ignore them says much about the
> speciousness of your argument. When provided you
> will some excellent background on the subject you
> chose to ignore it and instead accuse us of
> race-baiting or some such nonsense- "self-licking
> ice cream cone battle cry????"
>
> I would challenge you to find disparaging comments
> made by SL posters about other schools. We are
> not spreading innuendo (yes, I know it's a big
> word) about Oakton or Westfield or Madison,
> because we would not presume and it is not
> relevant to the subject at hand. If we were to
> employ some of the tactics used on this thread, we
> would have to assume that all Oakton students are
> drunks based on one drunk-driving accident or all
> students from Westfield are mentally deranged,
> based on two graduates who have committed murder.
> But that wouldn't be fair, now, would it?
>
> Yet, many here have focused on isolated incidents
> to disparage a whole school and community. I have
> seen posts about supposed prostitution rings at
> Langston Hughes, gang activity rampant in South
> Lakes halls, melees in the halls, etc. In
> addition, I have seen the entire school judged by
> the test scores of one group.
>
> Let's be fair and stick to the facts.
And all along I have listened to your facts. It is only when you start suggesting that everyone else's facts aren't...is when I and others start to ignore what you have to say. By insinuating the rest of us are wrong, you leave us to believe that nothing you have said or have left to say has merit. You don't want challenges. You don't want discussion. You just want to be right. "rumor, innuendo, racism, and ignorance" these are your words, not mine. This is what you have chosen to turn our words into. And would I be wrong to say the retort will come back to the same...We are wrong. We are bad, bad people.
Oh yeah, and just how big of a word is innuendo? hmmmm? I don't get it. And also, I think that you were the one to bring those sour grapes out of the bag, again.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
voter
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:25PM
to all SLHS posters, I am not bashing SLHS, I just don't want my children to go there. With one already in OHS and another starting next year how would you feel if your children were split up? Never mind the simple things that would need to be worked out... carpooling for after school activities, sporting events same nights, same time... which one do I go to?? My children only have one parent, to miss out on these activities because of the incompetence of the current school board would just suck. This is my problem I know. I could care less who your pricipal is, how the test scores are, how many whites/blacks.hispanics go there. I want my kids to be in the same school and to move one in their junior year would not be far. OK so I can pupil place now all my younger childs friends in our "hood" would be at a different school. It is just senseless to go through all this turmoil for a couple hundred kids. This truly could cause "children to be left behind".
Thanks
Thanks
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:29PM
First, thanks to all you SL parents that have appeared of late. It is nice to have some more support on this board.
Cricket,
you are right. I would hope that, by now, we could leave the bashing of whatever school behind. I've heard and said everything on this subject I care to.
Can we focus on the facts that relate directly to redistricting? Such as, how the criteria would relate to each of the likely scenarios? How we can get Langley in the process? You know, stuff like that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 02:47PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Cricket,
you are right. I would hope that, by now, we could leave the bashing of whatever school behind. I've heard and said everything on this subject I care to.
Can we focus on the facts that relate directly to redistricting? Such as, how the criteria would relate to each of the likely scenarios? How we can get Langley in the process? You know, stuff like that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2007 02:47PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:44PM
Cricket, I assumed no such thing, and I did not disparage all commenters, just those that used bad facts and gossip to somehow support their arguments. My earlier post to you was addressing the very concerns you spoke about...feeling powerless to affect the outcome, etc. and letting you know that redistricting had happened to us and we had coped and adapted. Based on your response, I can't help but feel that a comment like that does not further your argument so you have chosen to ignore it.
As far as being sensitive about racial comments, have your children ever been asked by kids from another school how it feels to go to a ghetto school. These are the kinds of comments we and our children have been dealing with for year from some in surrounding communities. That is not to imply that all are racists and I certainly did not intend to and don't think you are bad people. '
This is why I asked people to stick to the facts, not rumors.
As far as being sensitive about racial comments, have your children ever been asked by kids from another school how it feels to go to a ghetto school. These are the kinds of comments we and our children have been dealing with for year from some in surrounding communities. That is not to imply that all are racists and I certainly did not intend to and don't think you are bad people. '
This is why I asked people to stick to the facts, not rumors.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:52PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh my Gosh. We are supposed to believe everything
> in the connection because??? Have you ever heard
> of sensational news reporting?
There was nothing sensational about the reporting and the principal wrote letters home about the incident.
I know all about
> the supposed prositution ring. The 'pimp' was a
> GT student. This happened at least 10 years ago,
> so I fail to see the relevance to the present
> discussion. Please stick to the present and leave
> your sour grapes behind.
You brought it up (!?) and listed it among a group of falsehoods. Besides it was more like 5 or 6 years ago. My son, now a sophomore in college, was at Hughes when it happened.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh my Gosh. We are supposed to believe everything
> in the connection because??? Have you ever heard
> of sensational news reporting?
There was nothing sensational about the reporting and the principal wrote letters home about the incident.
I know all about
> the supposed prositution ring. The 'pimp' was a
> GT student. This happened at least 10 years ago,
> so I fail to see the relevance to the present
> discussion. Please stick to the present and leave
> your sour grapes behind.
You brought it up (!?) and listed it among a group of falsehoods. Besides it was more like 5 or 6 years ago. My son, now a sophomore in college, was at Hughes when it happened.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
05stillalive
()
Date: October 25, 2007 02:57PM
It was not 5/6 years ago. It happened when my older sibling was at Hughes and I am now a junior in college. It was either the 96-97 or 97/98 school year (i think it was 96/97)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 03:00PM
Again, we can find examples of incidents at all schools. Please let's stop.
After 15 pages, are there any points we (mostly) all agree on?
After 15 pages, are there any points we (mostly) all agree on?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Hollywood
()
Date: October 25, 2007 03:07PM
T. More is right it was 5/6 years ago because in 96/97 I was leaving Hughes for SL and I can assure you it didn't happen then.
Anyway, as much as talking about pimps and ho's can be sensational . . . back to redistricting.
Anyway, as much as talking about pimps and ho's can be sensational . . . back to redistricting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 25, 2007 03:16PM
the pimp was a GT student... impressive! a young entreprener!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
05stillalive
()
Date: October 25, 2007 03:17PM
Well it absolutely happened before I was there and I was there from fall 99 until spring 01...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 03:19PM
05stillalive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was not 5/6 years ago. It happened when my
> older sibling was at Hughes and I am now a junior
> in college. It was either the 96-97 or 97/98
> school year (i think it was 96/97)
You mean it might have happened twice.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was not 5/6 years ago. It happened when my
> older sibling was at Hughes and I am now a junior
> in college. It was either the 96-97 or 97/98
> school year (i think it was 96/97)
You mean it might have happened twice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
A. Parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 03:44PM
What have we learned from this thread? Some suggestions:
o more affluent communities have better infrastructure
o planned communities with subsidized housing don't necessarily provide a better place to live
o diversity is a code word for affirmative action
o nurture and nature are the primary factors in developing behavior
o peer pressure is pretty intense among elementary and high school students
o rich families and or two-parent families may provide more for their kids' scholastic development
o politicos attempt to play to their target audiences and frequently play to hidden agendas
o less advantaged kids have more problems in school and with authorities
o all have free will, many have native intelligence--we can arise above our humble surroundings
o people who don't learn English in the USA have a more difficult time
o some racial groupings do better scholastically than other racial groups for a variety of reasons
o more affluent communities have better infrastructure
o planned communities with subsidized housing don't necessarily provide a better place to live
o diversity is a code word for affirmative action
o nurture and nature are the primary factors in developing behavior
o peer pressure is pretty intense among elementary and high school students
o rich families and or two-parent families may provide more for their kids' scholastic development
o politicos attempt to play to their target audiences and frequently play to hidden agendas
o less advantaged kids have more problems in school and with authorities
o all have free will, many have native intelligence--we can arise above our humble surroundings
o people who don't learn English in the USA have a more difficult time
o some racial groupings do better scholastically than other racial groups for a variety of reasons
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 25, 2007 03:46PM
Thomas More:
Easy now. Your stateliness is showing fault lines: I can almost hear you breathing heavily.
One event in 1998. Here are the facts, as reported at the time.
March 17, 1998
Police in Reston, Va., have broken up a prostitution operation run by a 13-year-old boy who told police he was known as “Mr. Pimp”. The boy managed to talk a number of 12- and 13-year-old girls, all fellow students at Langston Hughes Middle School, into paying him to be part of his “sex club.” He then solicited male classmates to have sex with as many as three of the girls at once, though police don’t think any sexual encounters actually took place before they busted the ring. The boy has been sentenced to 60 days in juvenile detention and up to six months of counseling. (AP)
Btw:
Recall Tom Cruise's major starring role in Risky Business.....wasn't his character a native of the wealthy Northern Chicago suburbs (New Trier, Glenbrook or Highland Park HS....all top 10 Greatest schools) and celebrated for his entrepreneurial aplomb on his way to the Ivy League.
Double standards? Didn't think so.
Easy now. Your stateliness is showing fault lines: I can almost hear you breathing heavily.
One event in 1998. Here are the facts, as reported at the time.
March 17, 1998
Police in Reston, Va., have broken up a prostitution operation run by a 13-year-old boy who told police he was known as “Mr. Pimp”. The boy managed to talk a number of 12- and 13-year-old girls, all fellow students at Langston Hughes Middle School, into paying him to be part of his “sex club.” He then solicited male classmates to have sex with as many as three of the girls at once, though police don’t think any sexual encounters actually took place before they busted the ring. The boy has been sentenced to 60 days in juvenile detention and up to six months of counseling. (AP)
Btw:
Recall Tom Cruise's major starring role in Risky Business.....wasn't his character a native of the wealthy Northern Chicago suburbs (New Trier, Glenbrook or Highland Park HS....all top 10 Greatest schools) and celebrated for his entrepreneurial aplomb on his way to the Ivy League.
Double standards? Didn't think so.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:09PM
Thank you SL Padre. Some sanity at last. Disregard the ill-informed poster...back to redistricting....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:13PM
Farmer,
Very interesting poll. Wouldn't it be nice if our elected officials actually listened to the voters? Wouldn't it be nice if the school board actually had a dialogue with the involved communities BEFORE they made any decisions about what to do with an under enrolled school? Since we pay for everything in the school system, should we taxpayers have SOME slight input into the decisions that are made? Why ae they free to ignore the community? Are we just too stupid to be consulted? Or just too easily dismissed?
Very interesting poll. Wouldn't it be nice if our elected officials actually listened to the voters? Wouldn't it be nice if the school board actually had a dialogue with the involved communities BEFORE they made any decisions about what to do with an under enrolled school? Since we pay for everything in the school system, should we taxpayers have SOME slight input into the decisions that are made? Why ae they free to ignore the community? Are we just too stupid to be consulted? Or just too easily dismissed?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:15PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More:
>
> Easy now. Your stateliness is showing fault
> lines: I can almost hear you breathing heavily.
That was a great line. lol
And for the oh so serious out there, no, I'm neither a phoebephile nor a voyeaur.
My point, here, fellow Seahawks: nothing is gained by denying facts or trying to mask the defects and deficiencies of SL. If, as I believe, this redistricting is already a done deal with the only question remaining for SL being McNair or Crossfield, then, this is an opportunity to get the bad stuff out in the sunshine which Justice Bandeis called the best disinfectant and hope that resources are brought to bear to improve conditions at SL for all future students.
I think IB is a mistake for SLs population. I think AP better serves those students. I have expained why repeatedly.
I don't think Bruce is moving fast enough to clean out the disfunctional that remain. In fact he's promoted several of the worst.
I think Mr. Cave and Mr. Davis are treasurers who survived Railly but God knows how.
But for Mrs. Knapp I'd have lost my mind by now (and would have missed several good horse racing tips).
Mr. Brown, the swim coach, is a great guy or so I've heard.
Mr Colemen and Mr. Samson (the custodians) are always there to help the kids and the parents.
But this list is too short. And the number of great people who have left prematurely is too long.
More later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More:
>
> Easy now. Your stateliness is showing fault
> lines: I can almost hear you breathing heavily.
That was a great line. lol
And for the oh so serious out there, no, I'm neither a phoebephile nor a voyeaur.
My point, here, fellow Seahawks: nothing is gained by denying facts or trying to mask the defects and deficiencies of SL. If, as I believe, this redistricting is already a done deal with the only question remaining for SL being McNair or Crossfield, then, this is an opportunity to get the bad stuff out in the sunshine which Justice Bandeis called the best disinfectant and hope that resources are brought to bear to improve conditions at SL for all future students.
I think IB is a mistake for SLs population. I think AP better serves those students. I have expained why repeatedly.
I don't think Bruce is moving fast enough to clean out the disfunctional that remain. In fact he's promoted several of the worst.
I think Mr. Cave and Mr. Davis are treasurers who survived Railly but God knows how.
But for Mrs. Knapp I'd have lost my mind by now (and would have missed several good horse racing tips).
Mr. Brown, the swim coach, is a great guy or so I've heard.
Mr Colemen and Mr. Samson (the custodians) are always there to help the kids and the parents.
But this list is too short. And the number of great people who have left prematurely is too long.
More later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:15PM
>>>Of course you would expect that most people want to stay where they are<<<
Then why can't they? Why do they have no say in the matter? Why should they have to leave their schools? Because Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith say so? Why can't other solutions be discussed, with the ENTIRE community, including South Lakes? Surely there is way to make more people happy with the results than simply forcing them to go to a school they don't want to attend.
Then why can't they? Why do they have no say in the matter? Why should they have to leave their schools? Because Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith say so? Why can't other solutions be discussed, with the ENTIRE community, including South Lakes? Surely there is way to make more people happy with the results than simply forcing them to go to a school they don't want to attend.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:27PM
Dear Posters. The way I see it, the issues are as follows:
The county needs to redistrict to even out some population shifts due to rising populations in some areas, declining populations in some areas, and a desire to use existing facilities, rather than building new ones.
Some people don't want to leave their districts.
Some districts would like more students - to field better/larger sports teams, bands, etc, and offer more classes.
Those not wanting to move have presented many arguments such as emotional appeals, school loyalties, a desire not to split up families, concerns about housing values, etc.
Some not wanting to move have fairly or not, turned the issue to finding ways to not like South Lakes.
Some arguments have validity, though some of those are fading due to new and excellent leadership at the school and newfound vigor in the community in support of the school. Everyone likes a winning team.
Some arguments are not based in well-grounded facts and are based on rumors, incidents that happened at the school years ago, etc.
South Lakes parents have been put on the defensive due to the nature of some of these arguments.
It is only fair to let South Lakes parents contribute to the discussions, just as everyone effected should be allowed to speak.
The County has made no decisions as of yet. They will likely come up with solutions that will please everyone a little and no one a lot. Some things can be done to assuage concerns (e.g., adding AP courses at South Lakes). These things will all be decided as the process moves forward.
When one moves to Fairfax County there is no guarantee that school districts will remain static. If some seem that way (i.e.,, Langley) it is probably due to their geographic isolation, not any nefarious plot.
I think we can all agree that Fairfax County schools are great. Compare South Lakes to other schools nationally and it is near the top.
An influx of students from surrounding schools will totally change the demographics at South Lakes, if the parents posting here are as concerned and involved as they seem to be.
Lastly, my children have both been through South Lakes and we found it to be a wonderful and nurturing environment for them, as well as a challenging one. Neither was ever afraid to walk the halls and both have formed lasting and valuable friendships through their involvement in the school. I was involved the entire time they were there and encountered caring and involved parents at every turn. We are really not at all different from parents in your school.
What more can I say.
The county needs to redistrict to even out some population shifts due to rising populations in some areas, declining populations in some areas, and a desire to use existing facilities, rather than building new ones.
Some people don't want to leave their districts.
Some districts would like more students - to field better/larger sports teams, bands, etc, and offer more classes.
Those not wanting to move have presented many arguments such as emotional appeals, school loyalties, a desire not to split up families, concerns about housing values, etc.
Some not wanting to move have fairly or not, turned the issue to finding ways to not like South Lakes.
Some arguments have validity, though some of those are fading due to new and excellent leadership at the school and newfound vigor in the community in support of the school. Everyone likes a winning team.
Some arguments are not based in well-grounded facts and are based on rumors, incidents that happened at the school years ago, etc.
South Lakes parents have been put on the defensive due to the nature of some of these arguments.
It is only fair to let South Lakes parents contribute to the discussions, just as everyone effected should be allowed to speak.
The County has made no decisions as of yet. They will likely come up with solutions that will please everyone a little and no one a lot. Some things can be done to assuage concerns (e.g., adding AP courses at South Lakes). These things will all be decided as the process moves forward.
When one moves to Fairfax County there is no guarantee that school districts will remain static. If some seem that way (i.e.,, Langley) it is probably due to their geographic isolation, not any nefarious plot.
I think we can all agree that Fairfax County schools are great. Compare South Lakes to other schools nationally and it is near the top.
An influx of students from surrounding schools will totally change the demographics at South Lakes, if the parents posting here are as concerned and involved as they seem to be.
Lastly, my children have both been through South Lakes and we found it to be a wonderful and nurturing environment for them, as well as a challenging one. Neither was ever afraid to walk the halls and both have formed lasting and valuable friendships through their involvement in the school. I was involved the entire time they were there and encountered caring and involved parents at every turn. We are really not at all different from parents in your school.
What more can I say.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:29PM
Quantum,
Great post on what SL needs to do before the needs of any incoming students can be met. I totally agree about IB. It is not good prep for those who want to major in engineering, math, or hard science. I find myself wondering at which population of students it was aimed. Since IB is in all of the majority minority schools, is it thought to help minorities? If so, I fail to see how.
Does anyone know why South Lakes has IB and not AP? AP seems to help the most students get college credit, particularly low income students who really need those credits because of the money savings in college.
Cricket, your posts have been spot on.
Perhaps we need a new thread, on what to do now. How do we force our elected officials to talk with the communities about solutions for under enrollments? (I"m not including over enrollments since that really isn't an issue.) Is it ok with us if they attempt to balance ALL county schools socially, racially, economically? Or do just certain schools, like South Lakes, have to have such balance? Will Langley and Madison and Oakton EVER have anything close to a balanced population? What are the real goals here? Has the public agreed to those goals? How best to meet those goals of the larger community? Or does each school board member get to decide the goals for his schools, without consulting the wider community? Now that Stu has a plan to demographically balance South Lakes, does he get to do the same with his other high school, Madison?
Who has the say in what happens to our schools?
Great post on what SL needs to do before the needs of any incoming students can be met. I totally agree about IB. It is not good prep for those who want to major in engineering, math, or hard science. I find myself wondering at which population of students it was aimed. Since IB is in all of the majority minority schools, is it thought to help minorities? If so, I fail to see how.
Does anyone know why South Lakes has IB and not AP? AP seems to help the most students get college credit, particularly low income students who really need those credits because of the money savings in college.
Cricket, your posts have been spot on.
Perhaps we need a new thread, on what to do now. How do we force our elected officials to talk with the communities about solutions for under enrollments? (I"m not including over enrollments since that really isn't an issue.) Is it ok with us if they attempt to balance ALL county schools socially, racially, economically? Or do just certain schools, like South Lakes, have to have such balance? Will Langley and Madison and Oakton EVER have anything close to a balanced population? What are the real goals here? Has the public agreed to those goals? How best to meet those goals of the larger community? Or does each school board member get to decide the goals for his schools, without consulting the wider community? Now that Stu has a plan to demographically balance South Lakes, does he get to do the same with his other high school, Madison?
Who has the say in what happens to our schools?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:32PM
Thomas More,
It is virtually impossible for any principal to get rid of bad teachers or bad students. It's not how the system works, it's not what the administration supports. Students cannot ever be totally expelled and teachers can't ever be totally fired. That's just how it is in pubic education today. Sorry. It's not Butler's fault. He is very limited in what he can do.
It is virtually impossible for any principal to get rid of bad teachers or bad students. It's not how the system works, it's not what the administration supports. Students cannot ever be totally expelled and teachers can't ever be totally fired. That's just how it is in pubic education today. Sorry. It's not Butler's fault. He is very limited in what he can do.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:41PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> It is virtually impossible for any principal to
> get rid of bad teachers or bad students. It's not
> how the system works, it's not what the
> administration supports. Students cannot ever be
> totally expelled and teachers can't ever be
> totally fired. That's just how it is in pubic
> education today. Sorry. It's not Butler's fault.
> He is very limited in what he can do.
It's not easy and it shouldn't be but it can be done and is done. Theresa More is vice president of a teachers union up north. They get rid of disfunctional staff every year.
It should be easier in "right to work" Virginia where public employees are not allowed to unionize.
Even if one were to accept Neen's premise, why promote the dreck over the community's objections?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> It is virtually impossible for any principal to
> get rid of bad teachers or bad students. It's not
> how the system works, it's not what the
> administration supports. Students cannot ever be
> totally expelled and teachers can't ever be
> totally fired. That's just how it is in pubic
> education today. Sorry. It's not Butler's fault.
> He is very limited in what he can do.
It's not easy and it shouldn't be but it can be done and is done. Theresa More is vice president of a teachers union up north. They get rid of disfunctional staff every year.
It should be easier in "right to work" Virginia where public employees are not allowed to unionize.
Even if one were to accept Neen's premise, why promote the dreck over the community's objections?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 04:55PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The County has made no decisions as of yet.
Stu already made a commitment in January '03 not to redistrict Aldrin and Armstong into South Lakes. Langley was left out of the study area. Decisions have already been made. Very little, if anything, remains to be decided.
> I think we can all agree that Fairfax County
> schools are great.
Actually FFX schools are rather mediocre. Its student body is exceptional because an unusually large percentage come from homes where both parents have graduate degrees.
Longitudinal evaluations of FFX students over the course of study in FFX find primary school students at the top nationally and internationally and gradually losing ground over the twelve years. Some wag has been known to say that FFX County schools make their kids dumber over the course of 12 years.
> Compare South Lakes to other
> schools nationally and it is near the top.
which study had this conclusion?
> Lastly, my children have both been through South
> Lakes and we found it to be a wonderful and
> nurturing environment for them, as well as a
> challenging one. Neither was ever afraid to walk
> the halls and both have formed lasting and
> valuable friendships through their involvement in
> the school. I was involved the entire time they
> were there and encountered caring and involved
> parents at every turn. We are really not at all
> different from parents in your school.
Notice that nothing is said about the instructional staff. Again its the student body that makes South Lakes at great place.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The County has made no decisions as of yet.
Stu already made a commitment in January '03 not to redistrict Aldrin and Armstong into South Lakes. Langley was left out of the study area. Decisions have already been made. Very little, if anything, remains to be decided.
> I think we can all agree that Fairfax County
> schools are great.
Actually FFX schools are rather mediocre. Its student body is exceptional because an unusually large percentage come from homes where both parents have graduate degrees.
Longitudinal evaluations of FFX students over the course of study in FFX find primary school students at the top nationally and internationally and gradually losing ground over the twelve years. Some wag has been known to say that FFX County schools make their kids dumber over the course of 12 years.
> Compare South Lakes to other
> schools nationally and it is near the top.
which study had this conclusion?
> Lastly, my children have both been through South
> Lakes and we found it to be a wonderful and
> nurturing environment for them, as well as a
> challenging one. Neither was ever afraid to walk
> the halls and both have formed lasting and
> valuable friendships through their involvement in
> the school. I was involved the entire time they
> were there and encountered caring and involved
> parents at every turn. We are really not at all
> different from parents in your school.
Notice that nothing is said about the instructional staff. Again its the student body that makes South Lakes at great place.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 05:01PM
Dear Neen,
RE: Quantum's Suggestions -
South Lakes and Bruce Butler are already implementing programs to address what Quantum suggested with regards to under-performing students, with positive, measurable results. As I've stated before, students performing at a higher level are thriving as well. SAT scores were up significantly this year, moving closer to the upper norm for Fairfax. We had a wonderful acceptance rate at institutions of higher learning this year, the same number of students admitted to UVa as Langley, even though their overall population is significantly larger and more affluent.
RE: IB
MYTH: The school community lobbied for IB. In fact, we did not lobby to get IB at our school. It was decided by administrators with the old Area III Supervisor. However, we accepted the program and learned to take advantage of it.
MYTH: It doesn't prep students for Engineering careers. Tell that to the recent grads from SL excelling in those fields.
MYTH: IB is only for low-income, under-performing schools. Have you heard of George Mason HS in Falls Church City - one of the top high schools in the country. The school has no more than 5% of students on free and reduced lunch. Robinson HS in Fairfax is also an IB school in an affluent district. IB schools are in many of the affluent districts in Florida. IB schools are in affluent districts in Chesterfield County, a Richmond suburb.
MYTH: You can't get scores in time to get college credits. Absolutely not true, in spite of an ill-informed poster on this site. Just check with the IB coordinator at South Lakes - Anne Stowe.
RE: Quantum's Suggestions -
South Lakes and Bruce Butler are already implementing programs to address what Quantum suggested with regards to under-performing students, with positive, measurable results. As I've stated before, students performing at a higher level are thriving as well. SAT scores were up significantly this year, moving closer to the upper norm for Fairfax. We had a wonderful acceptance rate at institutions of higher learning this year, the same number of students admitted to UVa as Langley, even though their overall population is significantly larger and more affluent.
RE: IB
MYTH: The school community lobbied for IB. In fact, we did not lobby to get IB at our school. It was decided by administrators with the old Area III Supervisor. However, we accepted the program and learned to take advantage of it.
MYTH: It doesn't prep students for Engineering careers. Tell that to the recent grads from SL excelling in those fields.
MYTH: IB is only for low-income, under-performing schools. Have you heard of George Mason HS in Falls Church City - one of the top high schools in the country. The school has no more than 5% of students on free and reduced lunch. Robinson HS in Fairfax is also an IB school in an affluent district. IB schools are in many of the affluent districts in Florida. IB schools are in affluent districts in Chesterfield County, a Richmond suburb.
MYTH: You can't get scores in time to get college credits. Absolutely not true, in spite of an ill-informed poster on this site. Just check with the IB coordinator at South Lakes - Anne Stowe.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 05:03PM
When a school is challenging, it must be assumed that the instuctional staff is responsible.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 05:05PM
There are those who spend years complaining about a school and never doing anything about it. Thankfully, most posting on this site seem to be doers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 05:20PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are those who spend years complaining about
> a school and never doing anything about it.
> Thankfully, most posting on this site seem to be
> doers.
If it weren't for folks like me and others Railly would still be there.
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are those who spend years complaining about
> a school and never doing anything about it.
> Thankfully, most posting on this site seem to be
> doers.
If it weren't for folks like me and others Railly would still be there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 05:29PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Neen,
>
> RE: Quantum's Suggestions -
>
> South Lakes and Bruce Butler are already
> implementing programs to address what Quantum
> suggested with regards to under-performing
> students, with positive, measurable results. As
> I've stated before, students performing at a
> higher level are thriving as well.
How abut some numbers
> SAT scores
> were up significantly this year, moving closer to
> the upper norm for Fairfax.
In 2001 they were the third best in the County. They've fallen and haven't gotten back up.
We had a wonderful
> acceptance rate at institutions of higher learning
> this year,
Like what? as compared to whom? Glittering generalities don't persuade anyone
>
> MYTH: The school community lobbied for IB. In
> fact, we did not lobby to get IB at our school. It
> was decided by administrators with the old Area
> III Supervisor. However, we accepted the program
> and learned to take advantage of it.
There were discussions with the parents in the year before it was implemented but it wasn't request for approval. It was imposed from on high. Thank you, Railly
> MYTH: It doesn't prep students for Engineering
> careers. Tell that to the recent grads from SL
> excelling in those fields.
Like who?
> MYTH: You can't get scores in time to get college
> credits. Absolutely not true, in spite of an
> ill-informed poster on this site. Just check with
> the IB coordinator at South Lakes - Anne Stowe.
Two different issues 1) scores for admission evaluation taken off transcripts 2) scores for tests taken at the end of senior year not reported to colleges until course placement has happened. Stowe not involved in the second instance. Scores go from Zurich to college directly.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Neen,
>
> RE: Quantum's Suggestions -
>
> South Lakes and Bruce Butler are already
> implementing programs to address what Quantum
> suggested with regards to under-performing
> students, with positive, measurable results. As
> I've stated before, students performing at a
> higher level are thriving as well.
How abut some numbers
> SAT scores
> were up significantly this year, moving closer to
> the upper norm for Fairfax.
In 2001 they were the third best in the County. They've fallen and haven't gotten back up.
We had a wonderful
> acceptance rate at institutions of higher learning
> this year,
Like what? as compared to whom? Glittering generalities don't persuade anyone
>
> MYTH: The school community lobbied for IB. In
> fact, we did not lobby to get IB at our school. It
> was decided by administrators with the old Area
> III Supervisor. However, we accepted the program
> and learned to take advantage of it.
There were discussions with the parents in the year before it was implemented but it wasn't request for approval. It was imposed from on high. Thank you, Railly
> MYTH: It doesn't prep students for Engineering
> careers. Tell that to the recent grads from SL
> excelling in those fields.
Like who?
> MYTH: You can't get scores in time to get college
> credits. Absolutely not true, in spite of an
> ill-informed poster on this site. Just check with
> the IB coordinator at South Lakes - Anne Stowe.
Two different issues 1) scores for admission evaluation taken off transcripts 2) scores for tests taken at the end of senior year not reported to colleges until course placement has happened. Stowe not involved in the second instance. Scores go from Zurich to college directly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 05:48PM
Tom, you should get together and commiserate with the father of a boy who played baseball. He always yelled at the coaches, complained about the school, and never did anything constructive about it.
FYI, The stats are on the web and in the career center at South Lakes, and have been presented at numerous PTSA meetings. I guess you haven't attended or bothered to look them up. They are available for anyone to see. Unless, of course, you think there is a conspiracy to doctor the numbers -tin-foil hat time.
FYI, the IB decision was made in conjunction with the Principal who preceded Reilly Rodriquez. But you wouldn't know that since you never got involved. Heck, you can't even be bothered to spell her name correctly.
FYI, The stats are on the web and in the career center at South Lakes, and have been presented at numerous PTSA meetings. I guess you haven't attended or bothered to look them up. They are available for anyone to see. Unless, of course, you think there is a conspiracy to doctor the numbers -tin-foil hat time.
FYI, the IB decision was made in conjunction with the Principal who preceded Reilly Rodriquez. But you wouldn't know that since you never got involved. Heck, you can't even be bothered to spell her name correctly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dunk
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:01PM
Why is Thomas More commenting on this site. Is he trying to bolster the arguments against redistricting into South Lakes, even though he lives in the South Lakes community. Isn't that like biting off your nose to spite your face?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:06PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, you should get together and commiserate with
> the father of a boy who played baseball. He
> always yelled at the coaches, complained about the
> school, and never did anything constructive about
> it.
Maybe you could introduce us. What's his name? He might have been one of the folks who helped get rid of Railly, while you were brown-nosing her apparently.
> FYI, The stats are on the web and in the career
> center at South Lakes, and have been presented at
> numerous PTSA meetings. I guess you haven't
> attended or bothered to look them up. They are
> available for anyone to see.
I've been at the meetings and read the PTA newsletter every month.
Next time you're in the career center maybe you could make some copies and post them on this blog so the folks from other high schools who are concerned could see them.
> FYI, the IB decision was made in conjunction with
> the Principal who preceded Reilly Rodriquez. But
> you wouldn't know that since you never got
> involved. Heck, you can't even be bothered to
> spell her name correctly.
Bill Harper was long gone before the IB issue surfaced. According to Supporter's earlier post, "Railly" is the correct spelling of Realista's nickname.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, you should get together and commiserate with
> the father of a boy who played baseball. He
> always yelled at the coaches, complained about the
> school, and never did anything constructive about
> it.
Maybe you could introduce us. What's his name? He might have been one of the folks who helped get rid of Railly, while you were brown-nosing her apparently.
> FYI, The stats are on the web and in the career
> center at South Lakes, and have been presented at
> numerous PTSA meetings. I guess you haven't
> attended or bothered to look them up. They are
> available for anyone to see.
I've been at the meetings and read the PTA newsletter every month.
Next time you're in the career center maybe you could make some copies and post them on this blog so the folks from other high schools who are concerned could see them.
> FYI, the IB decision was made in conjunction with
> the Principal who preceded Reilly Rodriquez. But
> you wouldn't know that since you never got
> involved. Heck, you can't even be bothered to
> spell her name correctly.
Bill Harper was long gone before the IB issue surfaced. According to Supporter's earlier post, "Railly" is the correct spelling of Realista's nickname.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:09PM
Dunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Thomas More commenting on this site. Is he
> trying to bolster the arguments against
> redistricting into South Lakes, even though he
> lives in the South Lakes community. Isn't that
> like biting off your nose to spite your face?
from a posting earlier today:
My point, here, fellow Seahawks: nothing is gained by denying facts or trying to mask the defects and deficiencies of SL. If, as I believe, this redistricting is already a done deal with the only question remaining for SL being McNair or Crossfield, then, this is an opportunity to get the bad stuff out in the sunshine which Justice Bandeis called the best disinfectant and hope that resources are brought to bear to improve conditions at SL for all future students.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Thomas More commenting on this site. Is he
> trying to bolster the arguments against
> redistricting into South Lakes, even though he
> lives in the South Lakes community. Isn't that
> like biting off your nose to spite your face?
from a posting earlier today:
My point, here, fellow Seahawks: nothing is gained by denying facts or trying to mask the defects and deficiencies of SL. If, as I believe, this redistricting is already a done deal with the only question remaining for SL being McNair or Crossfield, then, this is an opportunity to get the bad stuff out in the sunshine which Justice Bandeis called the best disinfectant and hope that resources are brought to bear to improve conditions at SL for all future students.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:27PM
I for one would have liked to post constructive comments but see this is just a forum for Thomas More. It is obvious he doesn't like the county nor its schools. He especially despises South Lakes and its principal. And forget VA colleges and universities - they are atrocious!
Since I've been a Fairfax county resident for 40 years, went to a Fairfax County high school (Langley - be careful what you wish for people), and received an Engineering degree from that failure of a school in Blacksburg, I'm assuming my comments will fall on deaf ears.
I have one question for Thomas More - you seem to have a bigger bone to pick by something larger than South Lakes – like maybe your kids didn’t get into TJ?
Can we hear from other people now?
On to the supposed topic of this thread -
Face it people – government provided education is a socialist experience. Don’t think you can control it, greatly influence it, or own it.
I and many others of my friends and neighbors have children who do or will attend SLHS. We are very committed to our neighborhood, the schools in the pyramid, and the greater Reston area. Our kids play Reston Little League, Reston Youth Basketball, and Reston Youth Football with many children from the affected areas. We see the rising SAT scores (same as Herndon and close to Chantilly and Westfield) and are smart enough to figure out that these scores come from a small population with a high percentage of free/reduced lunch. We see and understand the opportunities this allows our children. We see the renewed interest in the school and community. We plan on being part of a rising tide. We know our children will have more opportunities to participate in activities than their peers at much larger schools.
I have talked to many sport parents who are interested in facts not fear mongering. They know their kids do not get adequate opportunities to play varsity sports at Westfield with a school population of 3200.
We will be at the boundary study hearings and plan on talking in support of the school and redistricting. We pay taxes too and believe that all of our children deserve an excellent education. We've shopped with you, had dinner with you, cheered sports teams with you. Know that if your neighborhood is redistricted to South Lakes, there are many, many people who will welcome you and your children with open arms. Know that their will be more opportunities available to your children at South Lakes. We, like you, want the best for all our children...
Since I've been a Fairfax county resident for 40 years, went to a Fairfax County high school (Langley - be careful what you wish for people), and received an Engineering degree from that failure of a school in Blacksburg, I'm assuming my comments will fall on deaf ears.
I have one question for Thomas More - you seem to have a bigger bone to pick by something larger than South Lakes – like maybe your kids didn’t get into TJ?
Can we hear from other people now?
On to the supposed topic of this thread -
Face it people – government provided education is a socialist experience. Don’t think you can control it, greatly influence it, or own it.
I and many others of my friends and neighbors have children who do or will attend SLHS. We are very committed to our neighborhood, the schools in the pyramid, and the greater Reston area. Our kids play Reston Little League, Reston Youth Basketball, and Reston Youth Football with many children from the affected areas. We see the rising SAT scores (same as Herndon and close to Chantilly and Westfield) and are smart enough to figure out that these scores come from a small population with a high percentage of free/reduced lunch. We see and understand the opportunities this allows our children. We see the renewed interest in the school and community. We plan on being part of a rising tide. We know our children will have more opportunities to participate in activities than their peers at much larger schools.
I have talked to many sport parents who are interested in facts not fear mongering. They know their kids do not get adequate opportunities to play varsity sports at Westfield with a school population of 3200.
We will be at the boundary study hearings and plan on talking in support of the school and redistricting. We pay taxes too and believe that all of our children deserve an excellent education. We've shopped with you, had dinner with you, cheered sports teams with you. Know that if your neighborhood is redistricted to South Lakes, there are many, many people who will welcome you and your children with open arms. Know that their will be more opportunities available to your children at South Lakes. We, like you, want the best for all our children...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:30PM
Would that your facts were correct, Farrell, oops, I mean Tom.
BTW, Bill Harper was in his last year when the decision was made by Loretta Webb and her Area III staff. The parents were not informed until the following year, when Reilly came on board. I know because I was intimately involved and I am sure you were not there for those meetings.
Please stop presenting bad facts.
BTW, Bill Harper was in his last year when the decision was made by Loretta Webb and her Area III staff. The parents were not informed until the following year, when Reilly came on board. I know because I was intimately involved and I am sure you were not there for those meetings.
Please stop presenting bad facts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:37PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would that your facts were correct, Farrell, oops,
> I mean Tom.
Good try, guess again.
>
> BTW, Bill Harper was in his last year when the
> decision was made by Loretta Webb and her Area III
> staff. The parents were not informed until the
> following year, when Reilly came on board. I know
> because I was intimately involved and I am sure
> you were not there for those meetings.
So you're were part of the secret cabal that gave us IB. Gee thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would that your facts were correct, Farrell, oops,
> I mean Tom.
Good try, guess again.
>
> BTW, Bill Harper was in his last year when the
> decision was made by Loretta Webb and her Area III
> staff. The parents were not informed until the
> following year, when Reilly came on board. I know
> because I was intimately involved and I am sure
> you were not there for those meetings.
So you're were part of the secret cabal that gave us IB. Gee thanks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:43PM
Old Timer,
Please say what you want. We are mostly ignoring Thomas now. We've heard it all Thomas.
However, your suggestion for SLVerity to post data would be very helpful. Can you post the link, SLVerity?
Please say what you want. We are mostly ignoring Thomas now. We've heard it all Thomas.
However, your suggestion for SLVerity to post data would be very helpful. Can you post the link, SLVerity?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 06:57PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have one question for Thomas More - you seem to
> have a bigger bone to pick by something larger
> than South Lakes – like maybe your kids didn’t
> get into TJ?
We have the resources to have a great high school that is part of the positive identity of Reston which is a wonderful community. SL once had great teachers and great coaches. There are still has some of each. Too many have been chased out and not enough have been brought in to replace the great ones who left.
I didn't want my kids to go to TJ because of the commute and because they aren't interested in science and math as a career.
Any one is free to post as often as they like. Nothings stopping you or anyone eklse and nothing will stop me.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have one question for Thomas More - you seem to
> have a bigger bone to pick by something larger
> than South Lakes – like maybe your kids didn’t
> get into TJ?
We have the resources to have a great high school that is part of the positive identity of Reston which is a wonderful community. SL once had great teachers and great coaches. There are still has some of each. Too many have been chased out and not enough have been brought in to replace the great ones who left.
I didn't want my kids to go to TJ because of the commute and because they aren't interested in science and math as a career.
Any one is free to post as often as they like. Nothings stopping you or anyone eklse and nothing will stop me.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:02PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our kids
> play Reston Little League, Reston Youth
> Basketball, and Reston Youth Football with many
> children from the affected areas.
Too bad that because of the commitment Stu made in January 2003. More than half the kids your child played with in those organizations will be going to Herndon
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our kids
> play Reston Little League, Reston Youth
> Basketball, and Reston Youth Football with many
> children from the affected areas.
Too bad that because of the commitment Stu made in January 2003. More than half the kids your child played with in those organizations will be going to Herndon
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:05PM
Here is the link to the 2007 SAT Scores for FCPS (also attached above):
http://www.fcps.edu/mediapub/pressrel/sat2007.pdf
BTW, I had nothing to do with the implementation of IB at South Lakes. I was on a pyramid-related committee and it was presented to us as a done deal. I did not support it at the time. Unlike some, however, I learned to make the best of the program and encourage my children to take advantage of it, unlike some site pests posting here.
Please ignore the posts of Thomas. I promise never to respond to him again.
Attachments:
http://www.fcps.edu/mediapub/pressrel/sat2007.pdf
BTW, I had nothing to do with the implementation of IB at South Lakes. I was on a pyramid-related committee and it was presented to us as a done deal. I did not support it at the time. Unlike some, however, I learned to make the best of the program and encourage my children to take advantage of it, unlike some site pests posting here.
Please ignore the posts of Thomas. I promise never to respond to him again.
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:05PM
Oops, I meant to say attached below.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:14PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-received an Engineering degree from that
> failure of a school in Blacksburg,
Two questions:
In light of the nations shortage of engineers why does VTech wash out half its engineering students in the first year?
Can you explain for us why the four year graduation rate at VTech is only 43%
-received an Engineering degree from that
> failure of a school in Blacksburg,
Two questions:
In light of the nations shortage of engineers why does VTech wash out half its engineering students in the first year?
Can you explain for us why the four year graduation rate at VTech is only 43%
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:19PM
Tom Cruise's role in Risky Business was set in Winnetka - and at New Trier High School. And it was fiction. Again, fiction.
New Trier is indeed an excellent school - but not the equal of some of the smaller schools north of it, insofar as they have a much higher middle of the class - with average ACT scores of around 27 - unheard of for a non-magnet community high school. The top of the class admittedly at these schools do not reach the stratospheric heights of a New Trier or a Highland Park - but not surprisingly - some of the wealthiest and high powered people in the Midwest live in those environs. What is little known about these smaller school districts in the northern and northwest suburbs of Illinois is that they do not have teachers unions - they don't need them - the local districts pay well, and the teachers, while not enjoying the ironclad apparatchik style job protection that union members enjoy, gladly abstain from a union in exchange for the chance to teach students with a real interest in learning and a midwestern work ethic. Nothing is more deadening to an educational career than having to teach disinterested, remedial students, and that unfortunate task is avoided for the most part in these schools. Again, I say this not to remonstrate as to the superiority of these schools, but to give a perspective of an outsider coming into Fairfax, and to give a judge as to just how mediocre FFX schools perform relative to income. In my own town, the superintendent was nationally known, has a law degree as well as a Phd in education, had only two high schools in his charge, was a significant community figure, and if parents or students had a problem, you could schedule an appointment and talk to him. Many did - all the time. Being a single mother product in a town that did not have many, he in fact went out of his way to get to know me and wrote my college recommendations. I could call him to this day and he would show interest, just as with the principal. Just an entirely different culture than the bloated bureaucracy here. The lack of local empowerment here is striking, and one wonders why the school redistricting invites anxiety - there is just very little room for meaningful parent input.
New Trier is indeed an excellent school - but not the equal of some of the smaller schools north of it, insofar as they have a much higher middle of the class - with average ACT scores of around 27 - unheard of for a non-magnet community high school. The top of the class admittedly at these schools do not reach the stratospheric heights of a New Trier or a Highland Park - but not surprisingly - some of the wealthiest and high powered people in the Midwest live in those environs. What is little known about these smaller school districts in the northern and northwest suburbs of Illinois is that they do not have teachers unions - they don't need them - the local districts pay well, and the teachers, while not enjoying the ironclad apparatchik style job protection that union members enjoy, gladly abstain from a union in exchange for the chance to teach students with a real interest in learning and a midwestern work ethic. Nothing is more deadening to an educational career than having to teach disinterested, remedial students, and that unfortunate task is avoided for the most part in these schools. Again, I say this not to remonstrate as to the superiority of these schools, but to give a perspective of an outsider coming into Fairfax, and to give a judge as to just how mediocre FFX schools perform relative to income. In my own town, the superintendent was nationally known, has a law degree as well as a Phd in education, had only two high schools in his charge, was a significant community figure, and if parents or students had a problem, you could schedule an appointment and talk to him. Many did - all the time. Being a single mother product in a town that did not have many, he in fact went out of his way to get to know me and wrote my college recommendations. I could call him to this day and he would show interest, just as with the principal. Just an entirely different culture than the bloated bureaucracy here. The lack of local empowerment here is striking, and one wonders why the school redistricting invites anxiety - there is just very little room for meaningful parent input.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:19PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
We're looking for the list of colleges that SL's grads have gotten into and the number that have gotten into each college.
Everybody can access the SAT listing.
-------------------------------------------------------
We're looking for the list of colleges that SL's grads have gotten into and the number that have gotten into each college.
Everybody can access the SAT listing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:30PM
I saw a statistic that last year, 65% of SL kids that applied got into UVA, as opposed to 25% of Langley. Not sure where I saw this.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:31PM
Quantum, lack of parental input--that's true, but you have to admit, the "HELL NO, WE WON"T GO" attitude here makes it impossible to make anyone happy, so it's little wonder they don't invite input.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:33PM
This is a meaningless stat. I would bet more applied at other schools. There is a quota based on your school. Just ask any counselor. Ours told us they will only take so many students from one school. No one is saying there aren't bright kids at South Lakes. It's the ones that aren't so bright everyone is concerned with.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:38PM
Actually, I hadn't thought of it that way, but Capys, the same kid goes to SL and has a 65% chance of getting into UVA vs, 25% if he goes to Langley. I like SL odds much better. That IS a big advantage.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:39PM
we have identified an upside!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:44PM
Capys:
But as many SLHS kids got accepted as at Langley.....how that does that impact your disparagement?
If there are quotas, did the secret Quota committee decide to up the SLHS number to falsely suggest that SLHS is improving dramatically, thus undercutting the critics during RD????
But as many SLHS kids got accepted as at Langley.....how that does that impact your disparagement?
If there are quotas, did the secret Quota committee decide to up the SLHS number to falsely suggest that SLHS is improving dramatically, thus undercutting the critics during RD????
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:46PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Posters. The way I see it, the issues are as
> follows:
>
> The county needs to redistrict to even out some
> population shifts due to rising populations in
> some areas, declining populations in some areas,
> and a desire to use existing facilities, rather
> than building new ones...
> ... everyone
> effected should be allowed to speak...
>... When one moves to Fairfax County there is no
> guarantee that school districts will remain
> static. If some seem that way (i.e.,, Langley) it
> is probably due to their geographic isolation, not
> any nefarious plot...
Nefarious plot? yes I guess you could call it that since they are not including langley because strauss and gibson refusing to include it - instead are building an addition when there are other alternatives which used to hold the very same geographic areas when they could be reboundaried to schools near their residences. Do you like paying to bus Herndon to Mclean?
There have been plenty of boundary processes where the B word came up especially in side conversations. Langley is not isolated - seems so because they bus kids from Herndon/Reston/Far Western great Falls to Langley - see Forestville attendance area.
Unlike smaller independent school systems FCPS should be presenting a financial advantage to citizens by making fiscally responsible boundary changes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Posters. The way I see it, the issues are as
> follows:
>
> The county needs to redistrict to even out some
> population shifts due to rising populations in
> some areas, declining populations in some areas,
> and a desire to use existing facilities, rather
> than building new ones...
> ... everyone
> effected should be allowed to speak...
>... When one moves to Fairfax County there is no
> guarantee that school districts will remain
> static. If some seem that way (i.e.,, Langley) it
> is probably due to their geographic isolation, not
> any nefarious plot...
Nefarious plot? yes I guess you could call it that since they are not including langley because strauss and gibson refusing to include it - instead are building an addition when there are other alternatives which used to hold the very same geographic areas when they could be reboundaried to schools near their residences. Do you like paying to bus Herndon to Mclean?
There have been plenty of boundary processes where the B word came up especially in side conversations. Langley is not isolated - seems so because they bus kids from Herndon/Reston/Far Western great Falls to Langley - see Forestville attendance area.
Unlike smaller independent school systems FCPS should be presenting a financial advantage to citizens by making fiscally responsible boundary changes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 25, 2007 07:57PM
Cranky Padre stop getting your shorts in a wad.
Look they'll take only so many kids from Langley and then that's it. So if the SAT cutoff is 1400 and they'll only take 25 Langley students and 100 Langley students got over 1400 - just 25% get in.
If 25 SL students score above 1400, they'd take all of them 100%.
It's how it works.
Look they'll take only so many kids from Langley and then that's it. So if the SAT cutoff is 1400 and they'll only take 25 Langley students and 100 Langley students got over 1400 - just 25% get in.
If 25 SL students score above 1400, they'd take all of them 100%.
It's how it works.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 25, 2007 08:07PM
I go commando, Capys, to avoid the wad thing.
I don't buy the premise of the numerical limits or allotments by school. Are Westfield, Marshall, Edison, etc., subject to the 25 person (or whatever; you tell me) allotment?
What happens with TJ? Only 5% or so get accepted to UVA, on the assumption that those students generally meet or exceed the 1400 SAT threshold, but are limited to the 25 kid cap?
I don't buy the premise of the numerical limits or allotments by school. Are Westfield, Marshall, Edison, etc., subject to the 25 person (or whatever; you tell me) allotment?
What happens with TJ? Only 5% or so get accepted to UVA, on the assumption that those students generally meet or exceed the 1400 SAT threshold, but are limited to the 25 kid cap?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
capys
()
Date: October 25, 2007 08:29PM
believe what you want. i have a senior. i know what the counselor told me. i know what the colleges told me. they don't want to have a tj reunion at UVA or anywhere else. they want DIVERSITY
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 08:40PM
capys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> believe what you want. i have a senior. i know
> what the counselor told me. i know what the
> colleges told me. they don't want to have a tj
> reunion at UVA or anywhere else. they want
> DIVERSITY
UVA is a TJ reunion with over 200 accepted annually. getting your kid into TJ with such a high chnace of getting into UVA is like winning a couple hundred thousand dollars. Why do you think parents want TJ?
http://publications.tjhsst.edu/tjtoday/2000/article.phtml?ed=November%202002&i=434
"UVa is by far the college to which most Jefferson students apply. About 285 students, total, applied there last year and of those, 35 applied early. The early acceptance rate was 91.4% for Jefferson students applying early and 89.6% for those who applied regular admission. The 1.8% difference in acceptance rates is insignificant.
“It reflects a very strong applicant pool,” Groves said
in regards to this school’s high acceptance rates.
“A lot of our students know it’s a safety school [Uva]
that’s a step above Tech and is on par with William and
Mary,” Pitkin commented about why so many Jefferson students apply to UVa."
-------------------------------------------------------
> believe what you want. i have a senior. i know
> what the counselor told me. i know what the
> colleges told me. they don't want to have a tj
> reunion at UVA or anywhere else. they want
> DIVERSITY
UVA is a TJ reunion with over 200 accepted annually. getting your kid into TJ with such a high chnace of getting into UVA is like winning a couple hundred thousand dollars. Why do you think parents want TJ?
http://publications.tjhsst.edu/tjtoday/2000/article.phtml?ed=November%202002&i=434
"UVa is by far the college to which most Jefferson students apply. About 285 students, total, applied there last year and of those, 35 applied early. The early acceptance rate was 91.4% for Jefferson students applying early and 89.6% for those who applied regular admission. The 1.8% difference in acceptance rates is insignificant.
“It reflects a very strong applicant pool,” Groves said
in regards to this school’s high acceptance rates.
“A lot of our students know it’s a safety school [Uva]
that’s a step above Tech and is on par with William and
Mary,” Pitkin commented about why so many Jefferson students apply to UVa."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:14PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> -received an Engineering degree from that
> > failure of a school in Blacksburg,
>
> Two questions:
>
> In light of the nations shortage of engineers why
> does VTech wash out half its engineering students
> in the first year?
>
>
> Can you explain for us why the four year
> graduation rate at VTech is only 43%
I can't believe you set me up so well -
Since I'm not a VT spokesman, I can't really answer for VT's graduation rate or the number of students that wash out; however, I would surmise that it's because the students all took AP classes on the premise that they were "college level" courses. They were ill suited for the rigors of a college level engineering program.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> -received an Engineering degree from that
> > failure of a school in Blacksburg,
>
> Two questions:
>
> In light of the nations shortage of engineers why
> does VTech wash out half its engineering students
> in the first year?
>
>
> Can you explain for us why the four year
> graduation rate at VTech is only 43%
I can't believe you set me up so well -
Since I'm not a VT spokesman, I can't really answer for VT's graduation rate or the number of students that wash out; however, I would surmise that it's because the students all took AP classes on the premise that they were "college level" courses. They were ill suited for the rigors of a college level engineering program.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:23PM
Honest question about the VTech grad rate:
Is the 43% rate applicable to those who finish within 4 years (and excluding those who may finish but after the four-year mark), or does it apply to those who enter but never graduate from VTech?
If the former, big deal if most ultimately graduate.
Is the 43% rate applicable to those who finish within 4 years (and excluding those who may finish but after the four-year mark), or does it apply to those who enter but never graduate from VTech?
If the former, big deal if most ultimately graduate.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:38PM
My bad. I mispoke. The schools in Virginia are so bad that none of the SL graduates went to college last year. Actually, Tech, UVa and W&M are closing their doors due to lack of students. So we don't need to worry about college any more. It really doesn't matter where our kids go to school in Fairfax county. They are all screwed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:47PM
Capys is using the wrong numbers. Don't quote me without checking with the guidance office at SL, but I believe that 34 students from SL were accepted at UVA and 34 students from Langley were accepted at UVA. Since Langley has a much larger population, and if you take into account that SL has a mentally handicapped center with about 50 students in each class, then SL acceptance at UVA was a significant achievement as compared with Langley. I am not a statistician, but even I can see that the odds were much better this year at South Lakes when compared to Langley fro this specific example.
At least 200 TJ students attend UVa every year, so no quotas there. There are not quotas for other high schools either - this is direct from the Dean of Admissions, and not hearsay.
At least 200 TJ students attend UVa every year, so no quotas there. There are not quotas for other high schools either - this is direct from the Dean of Admissions, and not hearsay.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:49PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Old Timer Wrote:
> > -received an Engineering degree from that
> > > failure of a school in Blacksburg,
> >
> > Two questions:
> >
> > In light of the nations shortage of engineers
> why
> > does VTech wash out half its engineering
> students
> > in the first year?
> >
> >
> > Can you explain for us why the four year
> > graduation rate at VTech is only 43%
>
>
> I can't believe you set me up so well -
No malice intended.
> Since I'm not a VT spokesman, I can't really
> answer for VT's graduation rate or the number of
> students that wash out;
Its just really strange. Neither CalTech nor MIT wash out 50% of their freshman engineering classes. Our country has a serious shortage of engineers, we need everyone we can get.
> however, I would surmise
> that it's because the students all took AP classes
> on the premise that they were "college level"
> courses. They were ill suited for the rigors of a
> college level engineering program.
Cute
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Old Timer Wrote:
> > -received an Engineering degree from that
> > > failure of a school in Blacksburg,
> >
> > Two questions:
> >
> > In light of the nations shortage of engineers
> why
> > does VTech wash out half its engineering
> students
> > in the first year?
> >
> >
> > Can you explain for us why the four year
> > graduation rate at VTech is only 43%
>
>
> I can't believe you set me up so well -
No malice intended.
> Since I'm not a VT spokesman, I can't really
> answer for VT's graduation rate or the number of
> students that wash out;
Its just really strange. Neither CalTech nor MIT wash out 50% of their freshman engineering classes. Our country has a serious shortage of engineers, we need everyone we can get.
> however, I would surmise
> that it's because the students all took AP classes
> on the premise that they were "college level"
> courses. They were ill suited for the rigors of a
> college level engineering program.
Cute
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
A. Parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 09:54PM
Based upon my student's AP courses, he entered VT with advanced standing and could graduate a year earlier, if he wished--he's decided to do a double major and take Wine and Vines. He has been on the Dean's List for all semesters, except one. Apparently, many students require five years to graduate due to the courses they've selected; e.g., engineering, architecture. Or, because they have changed majors and need more time to make the new requirements. Excuse parental bragging--main point is that AP courses do help and are important.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:02PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honest question about the VTech grad rate:
>
> Is the 43% rate applicable to those who finish
> within 4 years (and excluding those who may finish
> but after the four-year mark), or does it apply to
> those who enter but never graduate from VTech?
>
> If the former, big deal if most ultimately
> graduate.
Here's a great online tool - www.collegeresults.org -
For the year 2005, the 4 yr graduation rate at VT was 47.3%. The six year graduation rate was 76.3%.
IMHO - I think engineering should be a 5yr program like architecture. Because of the rigors of the curriculum and the required courses, there is little room for other courses that provide a more rounded education. I wish I had taken philosophy and sociology and other courses that help us understand each other.
I also don't think engineers spend enough time writing. That's what I see as a benefit of the IB program. The emphasis on writing and learning how to learn. Isn't that really the goal of an education? Ultimately, every engineer has to write a technical report - one has to be able to effectively communicate.
What I will say to defend Tech and other large public institutions in their engineering drop rates is that engineering is a rigorous program of study. It's not necessarily the level of the material but rather the organizational skills required to keep on top of 18 hous. All my roommates and friends were in liberal arts and science majors. They read the book, wrote one paper, had a midterm, and took a final exam. In the meantime, I had countless hours of homework, labs, etc. You either sink or swim. There are no study groups to help you pass. If you need help, you're on your own getting it. Professors, and graduate teaching assts. are there IF you seek them out. The responsibility ulitmately is with the student. If you have enough wherewithall, enough executive function skills to make it through, you can make it in the workplace. I've known students at private engineering schools to be coddled/mentored/tutored, etc. to get them through. These schools were also getting $30,000 in tuition money as oppposed to the nominal tuition at Tech.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honest question about the VTech grad rate:
>
> Is the 43% rate applicable to those who finish
> within 4 years (and excluding those who may finish
> but after the four-year mark), or does it apply to
> those who enter but never graduate from VTech?
>
> If the former, big deal if most ultimately
> graduate.
Here's a great online tool - www.collegeresults.org -
For the year 2005, the 4 yr graduation rate at VT was 47.3%. The six year graduation rate was 76.3%.
IMHO - I think engineering should be a 5yr program like architecture. Because of the rigors of the curriculum and the required courses, there is little room for other courses that provide a more rounded education. I wish I had taken philosophy and sociology and other courses that help us understand each other.
I also don't think engineers spend enough time writing. That's what I see as a benefit of the IB program. The emphasis on writing and learning how to learn. Isn't that really the goal of an education? Ultimately, every engineer has to write a technical report - one has to be able to effectively communicate.
What I will say to defend Tech and other large public institutions in their engineering drop rates is that engineering is a rigorous program of study. It's not necessarily the level of the material but rather the organizational skills required to keep on top of 18 hous. All my roommates and friends were in liberal arts and science majors. They read the book, wrote one paper, had a midterm, and took a final exam. In the meantime, I had countless hours of homework, labs, etc. You either sink or swim. There are no study groups to help you pass. If you need help, you're on your own getting it. Professors, and graduate teaching assts. are there IF you seek them out. The responsibility ulitmately is with the student. If you have enough wherewithall, enough executive function skills to make it through, you can make it in the workplace. I've known students at private engineering schools to be coddled/mentored/tutored, etc. to get them through. These schools were also getting $30,000 in tuition money as oppposed to the nominal tuition at Tech.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:02PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honest question about the VTech grad rate:
>
> Is the 43% rate applicable to those who finish
> within 4 years (and excluding those who may finish
> but after the four-year mark), or does it apply to
> those who enter but never graduate from VTech?
>
> If the former, big deal if most ultimately
> graduate.
Every college that participates in federal student aid must report it rates of graduation for students 4 years after enrollment; 5 years and 6 years. The US News and World Report Ultimate College Directory includes those numbers for all 1,400 schools in its directory. The 2004 edition reports VTech's numbers are 4 yr 43%; 5 yr 70%; and 6 yr 74%. These numbers don't change greatly from one year to the next.
Most parents would prefer to pay for only 4 years of tuition to get their children a degree. A professor at GMU tells me that their low graduation rate is at least partially attributable to the inability of kids to get into their core classes. Not enough professors or classrooms.
Other parents are concerned that schools with low 4 yr grad rates reflect a student body that does not take completion of their degrees seriously and don't want that attitude rubbing of on their child from a dorm mate.
Hopes that answers your question
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honest question about the VTech grad rate:
>
> Is the 43% rate applicable to those who finish
> within 4 years (and excluding those who may finish
> but after the four-year mark), or does it apply to
> those who enter but never graduate from VTech?
>
> If the former, big deal if most ultimately
> graduate.
Every college that participates in federal student aid must report it rates of graduation for students 4 years after enrollment; 5 years and 6 years. The US News and World Report Ultimate College Directory includes those numbers for all 1,400 schools in its directory. The 2004 edition reports VTech's numbers are 4 yr 43%; 5 yr 70%; and 6 yr 74%. These numbers don't change greatly from one year to the next.
Most parents would prefer to pay for only 4 years of tuition to get their children a degree. A professor at GMU tells me that their low graduation rate is at least partially attributable to the inability of kids to get into their core classes. Not enough professors or classrooms.
Other parents are concerned that schools with low 4 yr grad rates reflect a student body that does not take completion of their degrees seriously and don't want that attitude rubbing of on their child from a dorm mate.
Hopes that answers your question
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:10PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I've
> known students at private engineering schools to
> be coddled/mentored/tutored, etc. to get them
> through. These schools were also getting $30,000
> in tuition money as oppposed to the nominal
> tuition at Tech.
Purdue and Penn St. don't have these kind of wash out rates. they're public schools as is Cal Tech.
but we're getting way off subject.
-------------------------------------------------------
I've
> known students at private engineering schools to
> be coddled/mentored/tutored, etc. to get them
> through. These schools were also getting $30,000
> in tuition money as oppposed to the nominal
> tuition at Tech.
Purdue and Penn St. don't have these kind of wash out rates. they're public schools as is Cal Tech.
but we're getting way off subject.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
A. Parent
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:43PM
I best keep my fingers crossed that my kid matriculates next year...
What was the topic: the PTA president that stole the kids' money and parks her Lexus in the no parking space?
What was the topic: the PTA president that stole the kids' money and parks her Lexus in the no parking space?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Hollywood
()
Date: October 25, 2007 10:59PM
She also parks in handicap spaces and skims off the top of the concession stand money . . . I mean how low can ya go?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:21PM
Old Timer
Tough loss tonight but is was to the Heisman Trophy winner. Maybe VTEch will get them back at the ACC championship game.
Tough loss tonight but is was to the Heisman Trophy winner. Maybe VTEch will get them back at the ACC championship game.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:44PM
the child who was hit by a car to which i refer was... i want to say 2 weeks ago? it was after the nhs meeting on a thursday. it wasnt my aim to appear selfish; my words at 3am are not always clear and concise. but after the special ed admin told me that the kid was fine but i could still not proceed to my car, i was puzzled.
and bruce told me personally that he attended herndon and played tight end in high school because he came over to talk to myself and other football players at a field hockey game earlier in the spring.
verity -- christopher newport really doesnt belong in that sentence. the middle-tier students at south lakes go to tech, jmu, and mason.
prostitution ring at hughes happened in 1998... "melees" in the hall? which one of you has seen that? hmm. curious... none of you are in the building for seven hours a day.
..linda jones is irrelevant to the discussion
you're worried about 13 year olds having orgies 10 years ago? you won't find it published anywhere but i can assure you as recently as last year that oakton students have had 3 girls at once and that a mclean empty house was broken into for the purposes of having a sex party -- football players were suspended from play (but conveniently returned in time to play us for their homecoming game)
unlike the ap program, which the washington post described as "watered down", the ib program only gives college credit to students who score a 5 or 6 on the ib exam. i dont think it can be any more clear that the ib program is more selective and discerning (this still doenst mean that i like the program)
i'm amazed that you all seem to crank out 3 pages of circular discussion per day
and bruce told me personally that he attended herndon and played tight end in high school because he came over to talk to myself and other football players at a field hockey game earlier in the spring.
verity -- christopher newport really doesnt belong in that sentence. the middle-tier students at south lakes go to tech, jmu, and mason.
prostitution ring at hughes happened in 1998... "melees" in the hall? which one of you has seen that? hmm. curious... none of you are in the building for seven hours a day.
..linda jones is irrelevant to the discussion
you're worried about 13 year olds having orgies 10 years ago? you won't find it published anywhere but i can assure you as recently as last year that oakton students have had 3 girls at once and that a mclean empty house was broken into for the purposes of having a sex party -- football players were suspended from play (but conveniently returned in time to play us for their homecoming game)
unlike the ap program, which the washington post described as "watered down", the ib program only gives college credit to students who score a 5 or 6 on the ib exam. i dont think it can be any more clear that the ib program is more selective and discerning (this still doenst mean that i like the program)
i'm amazed that you all seem to crank out 3 pages of circular discussion per day
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
brian
()
Date: October 25, 2007 11:55PM
who is thomas more?
smart money is on girardi.
smart money is on girardi.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 12:48AM
brian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and bruce told me personally that he attended
> herndon and played tight end in high school
> because he came over to talk to myself and other
> football players at a field hockey game earlier in
> the spring.
Bruce Butler - international man of mystery. He went to Herndon, Flint Hill and South Lakes where he played baseball, basketball and football. And between games he played lead guitar in a garage band with Verity's husband? We know his brother, Larry, works for Reston Association but could it be that Bruce has an identical twin?
The girls at SL play field hockey on the baseball field in the fall. Could it have been lacrosse, maybe?
Girardi is close. The initials are K.O.
-------------------------------------------------------
> and bruce told me personally that he attended
> herndon and played tight end in high school
> because he came over to talk to myself and other
> football players at a field hockey game earlier in
> the spring.
Bruce Butler - international man of mystery. He went to Herndon, Flint Hill and South Lakes where he played baseball, basketball and football. And between games he played lead guitar in a garage band with Verity's husband? We know his brother, Larry, works for Reston Association but could it be that Bruce has an identical twin?
The girls at SL play field hockey on the baseball field in the fall. Could it have been lacrosse, maybe?
Girardi is close. The initials are K.O.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
donot
()
Date: October 26, 2007 01:25AM
I am planning to go to CNU. I love that school. What's wrong with it? It's just new that's all.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 01:47AM
donot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am planning to go to CNU. I love that school.
> What's wrong with it? It's just new that's all.
Their admissions office says they want the incoming freshman class to have 1200 SAT and 3.4 GPA.
With those credentials you could get into a school that graduates more than 13% of its enrollees in 4 years and save Mom and Dad a fifth and sixth year of tuition and use that money on grad. school instead.
Its a lovely campus and the Newport News community is excited and supportive of school which used to be a branch of ODU.
If your happy go for it. Good Luck.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am planning to go to CNU. I love that school.
> What's wrong with it? It's just new that's all.
Their admissions office says they want the incoming freshman class to have 1200 SAT and 3.4 GPA.
With those credentials you could get into a school that graduates more than 13% of its enrollees in 4 years and save Mom and Dad a fifth and sixth year of tuition and use that money on grad. school instead.
Its a lovely campus and the Newport News community is excited and supportive of school which used to be a branch of ODU.
If your happy go for it. Good Luck.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Hollywood
()
Date: October 26, 2007 01:59AM
K.O. huh?
Keith Olbermann are you living in Reston and commuting to NYC everyday?
Keith Olbermann are you living in Reston and commuting to NYC everyday?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 02:21AM
Hollywood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> K.O. huh?
>
> Keith Olbermann are you living in Reston and
> commuting to NYC everyday?
Actually I'm at the World Series in Boston tonight.
-------------------------------------------------------
> K.O. huh?
>
> Keith Olbermann are you living in Reston and
> commuting to NYC everyday?
Actually I'm at the World Series in Boston tonight.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 26, 2007 03:53AM
>>>>diversity is a code word for affirmative action<<<<
Not exactly. In Fairfax county it means Black. Period. It means Black students. Only. It does mean whites, or Asians, no matter where they come from. As one school board member said, about students at TJ coming from something like 27 different countries, 'those students don't count, they aren't diverse'. Seriously. That's exactly what she said. A rich black kid from McLean brings diversity to TJ but a poor kid from Pakistan or Russia or China, does not. That's how our school board thinks. Black matters. Asian does not. (Unless they need them at low performing schools.)
Not exactly. In Fairfax county it means Black. Period. It means Black students. Only. It does mean whites, or Asians, no matter where they come from. As one school board member said, about students at TJ coming from something like 27 different countries, 'those students don't count, they aren't diverse'. Seriously. That's exactly what she said. A rich black kid from McLean brings diversity to TJ but a poor kid from Pakistan or Russia or China, does not. That's how our school board thinks. Black matters. Asian does not. (Unless they need them at low performing schools.)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 26, 2007 03:58AM
The reason our students cannot handle engineering, at Tech, or any other school is that we don't teach enough real math in FCPS. We're now teaching that awful "Everyday Math" which prepares no one for Calculus in high school much less the multi var and linear algebra that they need.
Why must we import students from Asia to attend our engineering programs? See paragraph one. We don't train our students to be able to complete engineering courses.
Why must we import students from Asia to attend our engineering programs? See paragraph one. We don't train our students to be able to complete engineering courses.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 26, 2007 04:00AM
CNU was never a branch of ODU. It was a community college, with the same name it has now, until the mid 1980's. It's a beautiful school with a great President and nice student body. I know 3 kids there, SATs were 1280, 1300, and 1320. All Vienna kids, graduating next year.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 26, 2007 04:05AM
One of our neighbors graduated from UVA in engineering with 3 majors in 3 and 1/2 years. He took the GRE's, had a perfect math score and perfect writing. Many engineers can write well.
Oh yeh, he went to TJ too. SAT of 1580 and perfect SATII in math, chemistry, and physics.
At UVA, 90% of students finish in 4 years. University of Maryland is around 40%.
Oh yeh, he went to TJ too. SAT of 1580 and perfect SATII in math, chemistry, and physics.
At UVA, 90% of students finish in 4 years. University of Maryland is around 40%.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fairfax Citizen
()
Date: October 26, 2007 05:44AM
I'm pleased to note that local Connection has published League of Women Voters candidates' summaries. Thank you LWV.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 06:58AM
Does anyone know more about this "Everyday Math"? My first impression of it is NOT GOOD.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
vote NO
()
Date: October 26, 2007 07:03AM
Lets get back to the topic friends.... boundary study. The only way to make it stop and get out and VOTE vote for the right candidate and that is NOT Stu(pid) Gibson or Kathy Smith. DO NOT VOTE FOR THOSE TWO!!!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 26, 2007 09:12AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of our neighbors graduated from UVA in
> engineering with 3 majors in 3 and 1/2 years. He
> took the GRE's, had a perfect math score and
> perfect writing. Many engineers can write well.
>
>
> Oh yeh, he went to TJ too. SAT of 1580 and
> perfect SATII in math, chemistry, and physics.
>
> At UVA, 90% of students finish in 4 years.
> University of Maryland is around 40%.
Neen, we're all thrilled that your neighbor's child did so well at UVA. I doubt that many of the supposed adults on this board did that. I certainly don't know a damn soul who graduated in 3 1/2 yrs with 3 majors. I obviously hang with the wrong crowd.
But what I said is that they, engineering schools, don't emphasize writing. Your neighbor didn't learn their writing skills at UVA - possibly polished them. But they were obviously already an exceptional student as evidenced by their excellent SAT scores. And really, any kid with those kind of scores is way above the norm even for engineering students, don't you think - I mean perfect SATII in math, chemistry, and physics? This is really an exceptional student. Why are we putting them up as evidence that engineers write?
I think we all understand that TJ is the place for exceptional students - but what about the rest of our students? Not all are exceptional, some are just - gasp - above average - don't they deserve a good education as well?
I guess the answer is no if you were too stupid/naive to buy a home that feeds into Annandale, Centreville, Edison, Fairfax, Falls Church, Hayfield, Herndon, Lee, Mount Vernon, South County, South Lakes, Stuart, and West Potomac high schools.
These are the bottom 13 FFX County schools based on last year's Math SATs. And a little note, 9 schools have math scores below SLHS and Herndon (who tied last year at 540).
You're only entitled to a good education if you live in Oakton, Great Falls, McLean, Clifton, parts of Fairfax, and Fairfax Station or your kid goes to TJ. The rest of us are screwed - correct?
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of our neighbors graduated from UVA in
> engineering with 3 majors in 3 and 1/2 years. He
> took the GRE's, had a perfect math score and
> perfect writing. Many engineers can write well.
>
>
> Oh yeh, he went to TJ too. SAT of 1580 and
> perfect SATII in math, chemistry, and physics.
>
> At UVA, 90% of students finish in 4 years.
> University of Maryland is around 40%.
Neen, we're all thrilled that your neighbor's child did so well at UVA. I doubt that many of the supposed adults on this board did that. I certainly don't know a damn soul who graduated in 3 1/2 yrs with 3 majors. I obviously hang with the wrong crowd.
But what I said is that they, engineering schools, don't emphasize writing. Your neighbor didn't learn their writing skills at UVA - possibly polished them. But they were obviously already an exceptional student as evidenced by their excellent SAT scores. And really, any kid with those kind of scores is way above the norm even for engineering students, don't you think - I mean perfect SATII in math, chemistry, and physics? This is really an exceptional student. Why are we putting them up as evidence that engineers write?
I think we all understand that TJ is the place for exceptional students - but what about the rest of our students? Not all are exceptional, some are just - gasp - above average - don't they deserve a good education as well?
I guess the answer is no if you were too stupid/naive to buy a home that feeds into Annandale, Centreville, Edison, Fairfax, Falls Church, Hayfield, Herndon, Lee, Mount Vernon, South County, South Lakes, Stuart, and West Potomac high schools.
These are the bottom 13 FFX County schools based on last year's Math SATs. And a little note, 9 schools have math scores below SLHS and Herndon (who tied last year at 540).
You're only entitled to a good education if you live in Oakton, Great Falls, McLean, Clifton, parts of Fairfax, and Fairfax Station or your kid goes to TJ. The rest of us are screwed - correct?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 26, 2007 09:53AM
SAT scores are only for the college bound crowd. SOLs are mandatory for all students. That's where you see a difference.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 10:06AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CNU was never a branch of ODU. It was a community
> college, with the same name it has now, until the
> mid 1980's. It's a beautiful school with a great
> President and nice student body. I know 3 kids
> there, SATs were 1280, 1300, and 1320. All Vienna
> kids, graduating next year.
My bad. CNU's web site says it started as a branch of William & Mary and became independent in 1977.
-------------------------------------------------------
> CNU was never a branch of ODU. It was a community
> college, with the same name it has now, until the
> mid 1980's. It's a beautiful school with a great
> President and nice student body. I know 3 kids
> there, SATs were 1280, 1300, and 1320. All Vienna
> kids, graduating next year.
My bad. CNU's web site says it started as a branch of William & Mary and became independent in 1977.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 26, 2007 10:42AM
Word:
Is there a specific point about the SOLs -- with specifics -- as it relates to the redistricting issue?
Not something like: everyone knows that dumb, under-class people have crappy SOLs at SLHS, or that only 25 kids per school get into UVA. But rather FACTS that underlie the point you seek to make. FACTS, please.
Is there a specific point about the SOLs -- with specifics -- as it relates to the redistricting issue?
Not something like: everyone knows that dumb, under-class people have crappy SOLs at SLHS, or that only 25 kids per school get into UVA. But rather FACTS that underlie the point you seek to make. FACTS, please.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 01:29PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another SL Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > newsflash to many of you
> > I'm sure, colleges and universities add points
> to
> > the overall IB grade which ends up boosting
> your
> > child's GPA.
>
> That's true at about 100-150 of the 1400 colleges
> and universities in the U.S. Even the most ardent
> IB supporters acknowledge that.
>
>
I just looked at the IB website--here is the link for the US IB program
http://www.ibo.org/country/US/index.cfm
If you click on the menu of universities that recognize the IB diploma, you will see the list is much longer than 100-150, as Thomas posts. Some universities, including VTech, grant a year of credit to diploma graduates. They also give credit for individual IB classes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2007 01:30PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another SL Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > newsflash to many of you
> > I'm sure, colleges and universities add points
> to
> > the overall IB grade which ends up boosting
> your
> > child's GPA.
>
> That's true at about 100-150 of the 1400 colleges
> and universities in the U.S. Even the most ardent
> IB supporters acknowledge that.
>
>
I just looked at the IB website--here is the link for the US IB program
http://www.ibo.org/country/US/index.cfm
If you click on the menu of universities that recognize the IB diploma, you will see the list is much longer than 100-150, as Thomas posts. Some universities, including VTech, grant a year of credit to diploma graduates. They also give credit for individual IB classes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2007 01:30PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 01:45PM
Another link which states that VTech grants "sophomore standing" to diploma graduates, and Harvard, too, by the way.
http://www.shsd.org/newSite/highSchool/IBProgram/ibprogram.htm
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2007 02:21PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
http://www.shsd.org/newSite/highSchool/IBProgram/ibprogram.htm
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2007 02:21PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 26, 2007 01:46PM
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Teacher
()
Date: October 26, 2007 04:23PM
I am a teacher in the SL pyramids and I am proud to teach in a diverse area. I have students from Ethopia, El Salvador, Egypt and students who can trace their heritage to the Mayflower. Yes there are behavior issues at some schools. However what school did the Virginia Tech shooter go to? What school did the student who shot up the Westfield/Sully police station go to? Westfield. So just because a student may go to an all white, upperclass school does not mean they will turn out better than a student who goes to a school that truly reflects society. To all those people who are against the redistricting, perhaps you are right. The SL pyramid is probably better off without having "those type" of students and parents" contaminating our schools. God forbid those students are exposed to diversity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 04:33PM
Direct quote from an SL parent--our ESOL students at South Lakes are "little treasures"--very eager to learn and add a new element to the class. Too bad those against diversity will never really understand or appreciate that these kids add a great dimension to the culture at SL and student life.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 26, 2007 04:55PM
Yes Westfield was too big and the problem is being fixed
---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes
---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 05:33PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another link which states that VTech grants
> "sophomore standing" to diploma graduates, and
> Harvard, too, by the way.
>
> http://www.shsd.org/newSite/highSchool/IBProgram/i
> bprogram.htm
So what's the total number of colleges and univeristies giving advanced placement credit for successfully passing an IB exam in a subject. Remembering that there are 1,400 universities in the U.S. which all recognize AP courses, what percentage of those institutions accept IB?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another link which states that VTech grants
> "sophomore standing" to diploma graduates, and
> Harvard, too, by the way.
>
> http://www.shsd.org/newSite/highSchool/IBProgram/i
> bprogram.htm
So what's the total number of colleges and univeristies giving advanced placement credit for successfully passing an IB exam in a subject. Remembering that there are 1,400 universities in the U.S. which all recognize AP courses, what percentage of those institutions accept IB?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 05:36PM
Teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a teacher in the SL pyramids and I am proud
> to teach in a diverse area. I have students from
> Ethopia, El Salvador, Egypt and students who can
> trace their heritage to the Mayflower. Yes there
> are behavior issues at some schools. However what
> school did the Virginia Tech shooter go to? What
> school did the student who shot up the
> Westfield/Sully police station go to? Westfield.
> So just because a student may go to an all white,
> upperclass school does not mean they will turn out
> better than a student who goes to a school that
> truly reflects society. To all those people who
> are against the redistricting, perhaps you are
> right. The SL pyramid is probably better off
> without having "those type" of students and
> parents" contaminating our schools. God forbid
> those students are exposed to diversity.
Extraordinarily well stated.
" Any community that is obsessively concerned with attracting the 'wrong kind of people' has already suffered that fate."
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a teacher in the SL pyramids and I am proud
> to teach in a diverse area. I have students from
> Ethopia, El Salvador, Egypt and students who can
> trace their heritage to the Mayflower. Yes there
> are behavior issues at some schools. However what
> school did the Virginia Tech shooter go to? What
> school did the student who shot up the
> Westfield/Sully police station go to? Westfield.
> So just because a student may go to an all white,
> upperclass school does not mean they will turn out
> better than a student who goes to a school that
> truly reflects society. To all those people who
> are against the redistricting, perhaps you are
> right. The SL pyramid is probably better off
> without having "those type" of students and
> parents" contaminating our schools. God forbid
> those students are exposed to diversity.
Extraordinarily well stated.
" Any community that is obsessively concerned with attracting the 'wrong kind of people' has already suffered that fate."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 05:47PM
Thomas,
I didn't count the number of colleges in that menu--the list is very long obviously. Be my guest!
I've asked the question of IB credit for courses to an IB coordinator--haven't heard back.
I didn't count the number of colleges in that menu--the list is very long obviously. Be my guest!
I've asked the question of IB credit for courses to an IB coordinator--haven't heard back.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 26, 2007 06:06PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes Westfield was too big and the problem is being
> fixed
> ---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes
I'll bet Westfield would just love it if McNair transferred to South Lakes. Problems solved for Westfield.
Why would anyone think that McNair would be the solution, when it is geographically much further from South Lakes than Fox Mill or Crossfield.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes Westfield was too big and the problem is being
> fixed
> ---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes
I'll bet Westfield would just love it if McNair transferred to South Lakes. Problems solved for Westfield.
Why would anyone think that McNair would be the solution, when it is geographically much further from South Lakes than Fox Mill or Crossfield.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 06:20PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I didn't count the number of colleges in that
> menu--the list is very long obviously. Be my
> guest!
If you're trying to convince the parents of prospectively realigned students that IB is as widely accepted as AP at the November meeting and beyond, its a number you'd want to know and widely dissemiate. Thus, the burden of persuasion, proof and, unfortunately, dear friend, counting is yours.
I, on the other hand, hope, for reasons I have already described, that the reluctance of the prospective transferees to come to SL without AP courses will result in the School Board either providing surfeit of AP courses at SL or replacing IB with AP entirely.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I didn't count the number of colleges in that
> menu--the list is very long obviously. Be my
> guest!
If you're trying to convince the parents of prospectively realigned students that IB is as widely accepted as AP at the November meeting and beyond, its a number you'd want to know and widely dissemiate. Thus, the burden of persuasion, proof and, unfortunately, dear friend, counting is yours.
I, on the other hand, hope, for reasons I have already described, that the reluctance of the prospective transferees to come to SL without AP courses will result in the School Board either providing surfeit of AP courses at SL or replacing IB with AP entirely.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 06:32PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes Westfield was too big and the problem is
> being
> > fixed
> > ---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes
>
> I'll bet Westfield would just love it if McNair
> transferred to South Lakes. Problems solved for
> Westfield.
>
> Why would anyone think that McNair would be the
> solution, when it is geographically much further
> from South Lakes than Fox Mill or Crossfield.
Because unlike the vociferousness of the opposition that is already reached fever pitch among the Crossfields parents (See Crossfield PTA Website), it is anticipated that the McNair parents will be less involved (See their Website). Thus, the course of least resisitance for his craveness is McNair to SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes Westfield was too big and the problem is
> being
> > fixed
> > ---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes
>
> I'll bet Westfield would just love it if McNair
> transferred to South Lakes. Problems solved for
> Westfield.
>
> Why would anyone think that McNair would be the
> solution, when it is geographically much further
> from South Lakes than Fox Mill or Crossfield.
Because unlike the vociferousness of the opposition that is already reached fever pitch among the Crossfields parents (See Crossfield PTA Website), it is anticipated that the McNair parents will be less involved (See their Website). Thus, the course of least resisitance for his craveness is McNair to SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 06:41PM
Thomas,
I'm just providing information for people if they care to look at it. If they don't want to be convinced, no amount of data or facts will change their minds. That's been demonstrated throughout this blog.
The more important question is why did you post erroneous information (100-150 colleges accept IB)?
I'm just providing information for people if they care to look at it. If they don't want to be convinced, no amount of data or facts will change their minds. That's been demonstrated throughout this blog.
The more important question is why did you post erroneous information (100-150 colleges accept IB)?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 06:48PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I'm just providing information for people if they
> care to look at it. If they don't want to be
> convinced, no amount of data or facts will change
> their minds. That's been demonstrated throughout
> this blog.
>
> The more important question is why did you post
> erroneous information (100-150 colleges accept
> IB)?
That's the best information I had which I received from Jay Matthews, education writer for the Post and IB advocate.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I'm just providing information for people if they
> care to look at it. If they don't want to be
> convinced, no amount of data or facts will change
> their minds. That's been demonstrated throughout
> this blog.
>
> The more important question is why did you post
> erroneous information (100-150 colleges accept
> IB)?
That's the best information I had which I received from Jay Matthews, education writer for the Post and IB advocate.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 07:58PM
My genius husband was able to reduce the menu on the site to a text file. There are 1342 entries.
So, the number of colleges and universities that accept IB is 1342.
So, the number of colleges and universities that accept IB is 1342.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 08:53PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My genius husband was able to reduce the menu on
> the site to a text file. There are 1342 entries.
>
> So, the number of colleges and universities that
> accept IB is 1342.
The directory says it has 1341 entries on its front page. (I hope you still consider hubby a genius, as all men are convinced they are. Sorry to blow your cover, old man.)
That there are 1341 entries is not proof that 1342 of 1400 univeristies give advancement placement credit for IB. Any number of the entries that I reviewed reflected that there was no policy or that the univeristy in question didn't give credit.
So may be Mr. Matthews was accurate after all.
Further, not all of the participants on this blog have a closed mind on IB. Though mine is made up of this issue, I suspect numerous parents at the November mtg will want the most up to date info on this question and will be comforted if IB does result in advance placement credit at a substantial percentage of U.S. universities.
Happy counting, investigating, inquiring.
-------------------------------------------------------
> My genius husband was able to reduce the menu on
> the site to a text file. There are 1342 entries.
>
> So, the number of colleges and universities that
> accept IB is 1342.
The directory says it has 1341 entries on its front page. (I hope you still consider hubby a genius, as all men are convinced they are. Sorry to blow your cover, old man.)
That there are 1341 entries is not proof that 1342 of 1400 univeristies give advancement placement credit for IB. Any number of the entries that I reviewed reflected that there was no policy or that the univeristy in question didn't give credit.
So may be Mr. Matthews was accurate after all.
Further, not all of the participants on this blog have a closed mind on IB. Though mine is made up of this issue, I suspect numerous parents at the November mtg will want the most up to date info on this question and will be comforted if IB does result in advance placement credit at a substantial percentage of U.S. universities.
Happy counting, investigating, inquiring.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 26, 2007 09:09PM
Further review of the IB US directory shows many of the entries to be for community colleges. There are 1,900 community colleges in the US. If that total were add to the 1400 four-year schools, the potential total for IB would be 3,300. That the IB directory has only 1341 entries in the US means that even if all 1341 entries confirm individual course advance placement (which they don't) less than 40% of 2 and 4 year institutions give such credit.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 26, 2007 10:55PM
I don't think all of the colleges that do give credit are on that list. I know William and Mary gives credit (from a friend whose kid goes there) and it is not on the list.
There are about 98 community colleges on the list. This was easy to count in the text file.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2007 10:56PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
There are about 98 community colleges on the list. This was easy to count in the text file.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2007 10:56PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:11AM
Some of the entries are duplicates. Some of the entries are for scholarship programs. Junior colleges are also listed. Then many of the entries are vague about individual courses. Some schools only give credit for a 7 or 8 score on higher level courses, whatever they are. Others give credit for standard level courses. Which invites the inquiry: How many Higher level courses does SL offer?
This way too complicated.
This way too complicated.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:23AM
It's also more clear why the scores aren't getting to colleges in time. The exams are taken in May of senior year and not reported until July. Many colleges today have freshman orientation and class registration in June right after high graduation. So the IB course exam grade isn't available until after freshman have registered for class.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:21AM
Thomas More said:
>>>Longitudinal evaluations of FFX students over the course of study in FFX find primary school students at the top nationally and internationally and gradually losing ground over the twelve years. Some wag has been known to say that FFX County schools make their kids dumber over the course of 12 years.<<<
I do not know if that is true for the majority of students but it is true for Black students. They longer they are in FCPS the further behind grade level they fall.
People have fallen into believing our schools are great because of Jay Mathews little ranking, based solely on AP and IB tests. There are schools across the country that do far better than FCPS.
>>>Longitudinal evaluations of FFX students over the course of study in FFX find primary school students at the top nationally and internationally and gradually losing ground over the twelve years. Some wag has been known to say that FFX County schools make their kids dumber over the course of 12 years.<<<
I do not know if that is true for the majority of students but it is true for Black students. They longer they are in FCPS the further behind grade level they fall.
People have fallen into believing our schools are great because of Jay Mathews little ranking, based solely on AP and IB tests. There are schools across the country that do far better than FCPS.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:34AM
For most students at TJ, UVA is a backup school. But after being accepted, and learning more about UVA Honor programs, about 125 TJ kids go to UVA each year. Of course many more are accepted at UVA. With the average SAT being 1450, and the average GPA being 3.9, it's not surprising that most of their graduates would be accepted at UVA.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:43AM
>>>>Yes Westfield was too big and the problem is being fixed
---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes<<<<
That's what I'm hearing too.
Why did they make Westfield so big, only to decide it's too big a few years later? Can these folks never get it right? Or do they just use the numbers to justify doing whatever they want? In one instance big is good, but not if they need to move kids to another school? In that case, big is bad and those kids need to be moved to South Lakes.
---- McNair is being transferred to South Lakes<<<<
That's what I'm hearing too.
Why did they make Westfield so big, only to decide it's too big a few years later? Can these folks never get it right? Or do they just use the numbers to justify doing whatever they want? In one instance big is good, but not if they need to move kids to another school? In that case, big is bad and those kids need to be moved to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:49AM
Why wouldn't everyone be happy with McNair going to South Lakes? It makes South Lakes even more diverse, which South Lakes parents say diversity is what makes South Lakes so terrific. More diversity will be a good thing for them. It's a win-win-win-win, South Lakes is happy, more students and more diversity, Westfield is happy, and Herndon, and Oakton.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:57AM
Colleges give credit for high level IB courses only. They do not give credit for standard level IB courses. Many students at TJ, Woodson, Madison, etc, graduate with over 30 AP credits. My oldest had 39 credits when he left TJ. It's virtually impossible to get that many in an IB program, and impossible unless a student gets the full diploma. With AP a student doesn't even have to take the course to get the credit, just study on their own and take the AP exam.
One needs only to look around the county at which schools have IB and which have AP to know what most college bound students, and their parents, prefer. If any of the top schools, Aldrin, Armstrong, Fox Mill or Crossfield, go to South Lakes, there will be an AP program there. Once South Lakes is allowed to transition to an AP school, other schools will follow. But that's a lot of 'ifs'.
One needs only to look around the county at which schools have IB and which have AP to know what most college bound students, and their parents, prefer. If any of the top schools, Aldrin, Armstrong, Fox Mill or Crossfield, go to South Lakes, there will be an AP program there. Once South Lakes is allowed to transition to an AP school, other schools will follow. But that's a lot of 'ifs'.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 02:31AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not know if that is true for the majority of
> students
The reports say the studies are for all students
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not know if that is true for the majority of
> students
The reports say the studies are for all students
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 02:35AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Colleges give credit for high level IB courses
> only. They do not give credit for standard level
> IB courses.
Reviewing the IB web site listings for individual colleges shows that some schools do give advance placement credit for the standard IB courses, some don't.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Colleges give credit for high level IB courses
> only. They do not give credit for standard level
> IB courses.
Reviewing the IB web site listings for individual colleges shows that some schools do give advance placement credit for the standard IB courses, some don't.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 02:38AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why wouldn't everyone be happy with McNair going
> to South Lakes? It makes South Lakes even more
> diverse, which South Lakes parents say diversity
> is what makes South Lakes so terrific. More
> diversity will be a good thing for them.
Maybe they thinks its too much of a good thing.;-)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why wouldn't everyone be happy with McNair going
> to South Lakes? It makes South Lakes even more
> diverse, which South Lakes parents say diversity
> is what makes South Lakes so terrific. More
> diversity will be a good thing for them.
Maybe they thinks its too much of a good thing.;-)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 08:45AM
I would advise anyone who is truly interested to look into it for themselves at the IB website, and not necessarily go by the vague statements posted here, They've been proven wrong before. Look for the schools your kids would go to, and see for yourself.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 27, 2007 08:50AM
McNair is the only viable way of reducing Westfield. If Floris is taken away McNair is an island. They have said no more islands. The only takers are the bordering schools South Lakes or Herndon. Herndon already has part of McNair (north of Toll Rd).
Since Centreville was left out of the study, they can't take any students from the south.
Loudon is west.
Chantilly is east and they're full.
Since Centreville was left out of the study, they can't take any students from the south.
Loudon is west.
Chantilly is east and they're full.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 09:56AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair is the only viable way of reducing
> Westfield. If Floris is taken away McNair is an
> island. They have said no more islands. The only
> takers are the bordering schools South Lakes or
> Herndon. Herndon already has part of McNair (north
> of Toll Rd).
> Since Centreville was left out of the study, they
> can't take any students from the south.
> Loudon is west.
> Chantilly is east and they're full.
Word, may I ask where your children go to school?
Fox Mill is much closer to South Lakes than McNair, as is Crossfield. But everyone knows why Westfield parents would like to dump McNair - I don't even have to state it here, less I be accused of referring to anti-move parents as 'bad,' as another poster implied. There does not have to be just one shift. The purpose of the study is to get it right, not to create one 'bad' school surrounded by lots of 'good' ones.
I think you all underestimate the parents at South Lakes. I'd leave Tom out of the equation, since he continually posts bad facts and clearly should have pupil-placed his children out years ago.
We do have a voice and we intend to use it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair is the only viable way of reducing
> Westfield. If Floris is taken away McNair is an
> island. They have said no more islands. The only
> takers are the bordering schools South Lakes or
> Herndon. Herndon already has part of McNair (north
> of Toll Rd).
> Since Centreville was left out of the study, they
> can't take any students from the south.
> Loudon is west.
> Chantilly is east and they're full.
Word, may I ask where your children go to school?
Fox Mill is much closer to South Lakes than McNair, as is Crossfield. But everyone knows why Westfield parents would like to dump McNair - I don't even have to state it here, less I be accused of referring to anti-move parents as 'bad,' as another poster implied. There does not have to be just one shift. The purpose of the study is to get it right, not to create one 'bad' school surrounded by lots of 'good' ones.
I think you all underestimate the parents at South Lakes. I'd leave Tom out of the equation, since he continually posts bad facts and clearly should have pupil-placed his children out years ago.
We do have a voice and we intend to use it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 10:33AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair is the only viable way of reducing
> Westfield. If Floris is taken away McNair is an
> island. They have said no more islands. The only
> takers are the bordering schools South Lakes or
> Herndon. Herndon already has part of McNair (north
> of Toll Rd).
> Since Centreville was left out of the study, they
> can't take any students from the south.
> Loudon is west.
> Chantilly is east and they're full.
One way it could happen is this: All of Navy goes to Oakton to replace Fox Mill which is almost certain to go to SL since Stu promised not to redistrict Aldrin & Armstrong in January 2003. Then Floris could go to Chantilly. Crossfields stays at Oakton & McNair goes to SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair is the only viable way of reducing
> Westfield. If Floris is taken away McNair is an
> island. They have said no more islands. The only
> takers are the bordering schools South Lakes or
> Herndon. Herndon already has part of McNair (north
> of Toll Rd).
> Since Centreville was left out of the study, they
> can't take any students from the south.
> Loudon is west.
> Chantilly is east and they're full.
One way it could happen is this: All of Navy goes to Oakton to replace Fox Mill which is almost certain to go to SL since Stu promised not to redistrict Aldrin & Armstrong in January 2003. Then Floris could go to Chantilly. Crossfields stays at Oakton & McNair goes to SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 27, 2007 10:33AM
You may not.
Make no mistake McNair will be moved somewhere to solve the Westfield problem. The others you mention don't go to Westfield. The only border schools are South Lakes and Herndon. You cannot take Fox Mill and Crossfield (they're too big to take both anyway) and send McNair to Oakton, That's another island issue.
Make no mistake McNair will be moved somewhere to solve the Westfield problem. The others you mention don't go to Westfield. The only border schools are South Lakes and Herndon. You cannot take Fox Mill and Crossfield (they're too big to take both anyway) and send McNair to Oakton, That's another island issue.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 10:47AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We do have a voice and we intend to use it.
For what? To get Realista back. To thank Stu for making the partition of Reston kids into two high schools permanent. To beg Crossfields not to treat SL like a poor relation wallflower? To prevent McNair's kids from a shorter bus ride? To sell IB?
For someone who claims to have been in a position of influence regarding SL since at least 1998, why didn't you do more to get rid of Realista faster?
-------------------------------------------------------
> We do have a voice and we intend to use it.
For what? To get Realista back. To thank Stu for making the partition of Reston kids into two high schools permanent. To beg Crossfields not to treat SL like a poor relation wallflower? To prevent McNair's kids from a shorter bus ride? To sell IB?
For someone who claims to have been in a position of influence regarding SL since at least 1998, why didn't you do more to get rid of Realista faster?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 10:51AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You may not.
Well, she did. You just chose not to answer.
> You cannot
> take Fox Mill and Crossfield (they're too big to
> take both anyway)
What are those numbers & where did you find them?
-------------------------------------------------------
> You may not.
Well, she did. You just chose not to answer.
> You cannot
> take Fox Mill and Crossfield (they're too big to
> take both anyway)
What are those numbers & where did you find them?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 27, 2007 10:59AM
SLVerity has it exactly right: the purpose of the study and the redistricting is to get it right, and suggesting to slice, dice and leapfrog elementary feeders ain't right. Word knows or should know that, but likes to tweak us....
We should keep Tom, b/c he knows and defends vociferously the truth about the SL students and community, even if he has the dagger out for IB and BB (Butler) -- which I don't agree with.
I believe that there are a number of excellent new APs, teachers and coaches, fueling the demonstrable improvements in performance and pride at SLHS....and the model campus linkages between SLHS and Hughes are stronger with Aimee Monticchio at Hughes (from being an AP at SLHS). That's all good and people should take a look and make up their own minds. Mr. Butler welcomes anyone and everyone to do so.
We should keep Tom, b/c he knows and defends vociferously the truth about the SL students and community, even if he has the dagger out for IB and BB (Butler) -- which I don't agree with.
I believe that there are a number of excellent new APs, teachers and coaches, fueling the demonstrable improvements in performance and pride at SLHS....and the model campus linkages between SLHS and Hughes are stronger with Aimee Monticchio at Hughes (from being an AP at SLHS). That's all good and people should take a look and make up their own minds. Mr. Butler welcomes anyone and everyone to do so.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 11:10AM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should keep Tom, b/c he knows and defends
> vociferously the truth about the SL students and
> community,
You are too kind.
> even if he has the dagger out for
> BB (Butler)
I had great hopes for BB but have been deeply disappoint with his promotions, his attitude toward BSR and his inability to reform the English Department which stubbornly refuses to teach anything but "Literature" to the exclusion of grammar, vocabulary and writing.
> I believe that there are a number of excellent new
> teachers and coaches
Not to pick a fight, but who do you have in mind? I'm looking for anything to avoid total despair about the future for SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should keep Tom, b/c he knows and defends
> vociferously the truth about the SL students and
> community,
You are too kind.
> even if he has the dagger out for
> BB (Butler)
I had great hopes for BB but have been deeply disappoint with his promotions, his attitude toward BSR and his inability to reform the English Department which stubbornly refuses to teach anything but "Literature" to the exclusion of grammar, vocabulary and writing.
> I believe that there are a number of excellent new
> teachers and coaches
Not to pick a fight, but who do you have in mind? I'm looking for anything to avoid total despair about the future for SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 27, 2007 11:13AM
APs = Assistant Principals, in this context. See, e.g., the CVs for Messrs. Goldfarb and Tyson, the new fellas. My kids say they are great (beyond the CV).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 11:25AM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APs = Assistant Principals, in this context.
> See, e.g., the CVs for Messrs. Goldfarb and Tyson,
> the new fellas. My kids say they are great
> (beyond the CV).
I knew about them but haven't met them yet. However, I was asking about the new teachers and coaches.
-------------------------------------------------------
> APs = Assistant Principals, in this context.
> See, e.g., the CVs for Messrs. Goldfarb and Tyson,
> the new fellas. My kids say they are great
> (beyond the CV).
I knew about them but haven't met them yet. However, I was asking about the new teachers and coaches.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 11:27AM
Tom knows not what he talks about, as usual. In 1998 my children were in elementary school. I had nothing to do with South Lakes at the time. I never liked Reilly Rodrigues. I have worked for years to improve the SL Pyramid - including identifying problems and finding constructive ways to deal with them. I worked vociferously to keep the GT Center at Hughes, when it was going to be moved in entirety to Rachel Carson, at great detriment to our pyramid, even though my children were not even at Hughes yet. South Lakes has seen improvement under Bruce Butler. SAT scores up, SOL scores up, school spirit revived, pride for the school throughout the community revived. Too bad Tom suffers from BDS (Butler Derangement Syndrome) and IBDS (IB Derangement Syndrome).
BTW, High School English departments should not have to teach grammar, if it is done correctly in earlier years. Perhaps Tom should focus his laser-like complaints at the elementary and middle level.
It's interesting that my children received credit for IB with no problem whatsoever regarding timelines. My guess is that Tom's children did not receive IB credits bc they did not meet the criteria, not through any fault of IB.
I'd like to know what exactly Tom has done, besides complaining, to effect change. My guess would be nothing at all.
BTW, High School English departments should not have to teach grammar, if it is done correctly in earlier years. Perhaps Tom should focus his laser-like complaints at the elementary and middle level.
It's interesting that my children received credit for IB with no problem whatsoever regarding timelines. My guess is that Tom's children did not receive IB credits bc they did not meet the criteria, not through any fault of IB.
I'd like to know what exactly Tom has done, besides complaining, to effect change. My guess would be nothing at all.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 27, 2007 11:41AM
Saw your post after my last one.
I am not too kind. Sometimes you tick me off, but your heart is good, and you keep the ball rolling.
On teachers, we've been quite happy with both newer and established faces in SS/History, French, new Latin, greater focus on English writing, grammar, and vocab (based anecdotally on heightened frequency and volume of our students' complaints about the relevance thereof.....good sign, I think), and even math.
There is dead wood, too, but the overall energy is much better than in the Realista era. As examples, coaches in boys Lax, field hockey, volleyball, and -- as you noted -- swimming, are all energetic, very competent, and committed to playing well, building a team spirit, and enjoying the sport.
Heck, prospective parents should read the story about SLHS Field Hockey coach, Mary Caye Schirf (http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=88351&paper=71&cat=105, or talk with her about the school.
I am not too kind. Sometimes you tick me off, but your heart is good, and you keep the ball rolling.
On teachers, we've been quite happy with both newer and established faces in SS/History, French, new Latin, greater focus on English writing, grammar, and vocab (based anecdotally on heightened frequency and volume of our students' complaints about the relevance thereof.....good sign, I think), and even math.
There is dead wood, too, but the overall energy is much better than in the Realista era. As examples, coaches in boys Lax, field hockey, volleyball, and -- as you noted -- swimming, are all energetic, very competent, and committed to playing well, building a team spirit, and enjoying the sport.
Heck, prospective parents should read the story about SLHS Field Hockey coach, Mary Caye Schirf (http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=88351&paper=71&cat=105, or talk with her about the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 11:50AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I worked vociferously to keep
> the GT Center at Hughes, when it was going to be
> moved in entirety to Rachel Carson, at great
> detriment to our pyramid, even though my children
> were not even at Hughes yet.
So you worked vociferously to keep the GT Center available and convenient for your kids. How wonderful.
>
> BTW, High School English departments should not
> have to teach grammar
Actually, not true. But that is the excuse the SL teachers give. Teaching grammar is hard and boring but absolutely necessary. Only in the failed "whole language" curriculum, the vestiges of which still linger in FCPS, is grammar not taught at the high school level. Because grammar is not taught in "whole language", kids are supposed to indirectly absorb it.
Most college freshman writing courses include grammar as part of the course of study.
Here's a little test. Ask a dozen randomly slected SL students to name the eight parts of speech and give examples of the proper use of each in a sentence.
> It's interesting that my children received credit
> for IB with no problem whatsoever regarding
> timelines. My guess is that Tom's children did
> not receive IB credits bc they did not meet the
> criteria, not through any fault of IB.
I thought I had already written that I had my kids not take IB. The reports of late IB test result reports come from parents at other FFX IB schools.
> I'd like to know what exactly Tom has done,
> besides complaining, to effect change. My guess
> would be nothing at all.
Besides helping to get rid of Realista and volunteering at innumberable events and functions, what else can any parent do, storm the School Board meeting?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I worked vociferously to keep
> the GT Center at Hughes, when it was going to be
> moved in entirety to Rachel Carson, at great
> detriment to our pyramid, even though my children
> were not even at Hughes yet.
So you worked vociferously to keep the GT Center available and convenient for your kids. How wonderful.
>
> BTW, High School English departments should not
> have to teach grammar
Actually, not true. But that is the excuse the SL teachers give. Teaching grammar is hard and boring but absolutely necessary. Only in the failed "whole language" curriculum, the vestiges of which still linger in FCPS, is grammar not taught at the high school level. Because grammar is not taught in "whole language", kids are supposed to indirectly absorb it.
Most college freshman writing courses include grammar as part of the course of study.
Here's a little test. Ask a dozen randomly slected SL students to name the eight parts of speech and give examples of the proper use of each in a sentence.
> It's interesting that my children received credit
> for IB with no problem whatsoever regarding
> timelines. My guess is that Tom's children did
> not receive IB credits bc they did not meet the
> criteria, not through any fault of IB.
I thought I had already written that I had my kids not take IB. The reports of late IB test result reports come from parents at other FFX IB schools.
> I'd like to know what exactly Tom has done,
> besides complaining, to effect change. My guess
> would be nothing at all.
Besides helping to get rid of Realista and volunteering at innumberable events and functions, what else can any parent do, storm the School Board meeting?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:09PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not too kind. Sometimes you tick me off, but
> your heart is good, and you keep the ball
> rolling.
Thank you again. I can aspire to no better state of being than having a good heart. Ticking you off is a good thing if it spurs you to action, even if it's in opposition to the choices I'd make. I think my friend, Erasmus, said "Two minds in opposition are more likely to find truth and wisdom than two in harmony."
> new Latin,
Who is this? Cave is still there and I like him. I've been worried that his infirmities could mean the end of Latin which I've used to remediate the lack of grammar and vocabulary in English.
> greater focus on English writing,
> grammar, and vocab (based anecdotally on
> heightened frequency and volume of our students'
> complaints about the relevance thereof.....good
> sign, I think),
Please God let this be true. I've been begging Bruce to make this happen.
> The overall energy is
> much better than in the Realista era.
While that is certainly true, I'm not sure that's saying much. Could it have gotten much worse?
We knew we were in trouble with Realista when she announced before the end of her first year that she wanted to terminate the All Night Grad Party which SL practically invented.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not too kind. Sometimes you tick me off, but
> your heart is good, and you keep the ball
> rolling.
Thank you again. I can aspire to no better state of being than having a good heart. Ticking you off is a good thing if it spurs you to action, even if it's in opposition to the choices I'd make. I think my friend, Erasmus, said "Two minds in opposition are more likely to find truth and wisdom than two in harmony."
> new Latin,
Who is this? Cave is still there and I like him. I've been worried that his infirmities could mean the end of Latin which I've used to remediate the lack of grammar and vocabulary in English.
> greater focus on English writing,
> grammar, and vocab (based anecdotally on
> heightened frequency and volume of our students'
> complaints about the relevance thereof.....good
> sign, I think),
Please God let this be true. I've been begging Bruce to make this happen.
> The overall energy is
> much better than in the Realista era.
While that is certainly true, I'm not sure that's saying much. Could it have gotten much worse?
We knew we were in trouble with Realista when she announced before the end of her first year that she wanted to terminate the All Night Grad Party which SL practically invented.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:09PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> So you worked vociferously to keep the GT Center
> available and convenient for your kids. How
> wonderful.
Once again, Tom shows his ignorance. My children were never in the GT program. Nevertheless, it would have hurt the school to lose that block of students and their involved parents. I'm sure Tom would have loved to kick them out though, another example of cutting off his nose to spite his face.
> Most college freshman writing courses include
> grammar as part of the course of study.
Most college freshman courses include grammar? I think not, unless once is taking remedial courses.
>
> Here's a little test. Ask a dozen randomly
> slected SL students to name the eight parts of
> speech and give examples of the proper use of each
> in a sentence.
Why don't we ask randomly selected students in all Fairfax schools, to be fair.
>
> I thought I had already written that I had my kids
> not take IB. The reports of late IB test result
> reports come from parents at other FFX IB
> schools.
Since Tom's children did not take IB, Tom really can't be considered an expert on the subject.
>
> Besides helping to get rid of Realista and
> volunteering at innumberable events and functions,
> what else can any parent do, storm the School
> Board meeting?
Innumerable events and functions? Define innumerable.
Again, what did Tom do to get rid of Reilly? As Tom has so often asked of other posters, please provide facts, dates, letters, etc. to back up those claims.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> So you worked vociferously to keep the GT Center
> available and convenient for your kids. How
> wonderful.
Once again, Tom shows his ignorance. My children were never in the GT program. Nevertheless, it would have hurt the school to lose that block of students and their involved parents. I'm sure Tom would have loved to kick them out though, another example of cutting off his nose to spite his face.
> Most college freshman writing courses include
> grammar as part of the course of study.
Most college freshman courses include grammar? I think not, unless once is taking remedial courses.
>
> Here's a little test. Ask a dozen randomly
> slected SL students to name the eight parts of
> speech and give examples of the proper use of each
> in a sentence.
Why don't we ask randomly selected students in all Fairfax schools, to be fair.
>
> I thought I had already written that I had my kids
> not take IB. The reports of late IB test result
> reports come from parents at other FFX IB
> schools.
Since Tom's children did not take IB, Tom really can't be considered an expert on the subject.
>
> Besides helping to get rid of Realista and
> volunteering at innumberable events and functions,
> what else can any parent do, storm the School
> Board meeting?
Innumerable events and functions? Define innumerable.
Again, what did Tom do to get rid of Reilly? As Tom has so often asked of other posters, please provide facts, dates, letters, etc. to back up those claims.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:15PM
This thread is supposed to be about redistricting, not bashing South Lakes. By posting such negative and I might add, unconstructive comments about South Lakes, and refusing to acknowledge any good at the school, besides the student body, Tom has very much ill-served the South Lakes community. If I had considered being redistricted to SL and read this thread, I'd be running after reading the toxic comments from Tom.
Since Tom does seem to be a cut of his nose to spite his face person, perhaps that is his goal.
Since Tom does seem to be a cut of his nose to spite his face person, perhaps that is his goal.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:41PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > So you worked vociferously to keep the GT
> Center
> > available and convenient for your kids. How
> > wonderful.
>
> Once again, Tom shows his ignorance. My children
> were never in the GT program. Nevertheless, it
> would have hurt the school to lose that block of
> students and their involved parents. I'm sure Tom
> would have loved to kick them out though, another
> example of cutting off his nose to spite his
> face.
So your kids couldn't get into the Hughes GT program and still got into Mr. Jefferson's country club. Now what does that say about UVA.
> > Most college freshman writing courses include
> > grammar as part of the course of study.
>
> Most college freshman courses include grammar? I
> think not, unless once is taking remedial
> courses.
Well that explains why those UVA grads I interview can't write very well.
> > Here's a little test. Ask a dozen randomly
> > slected SL students to name the eight parts of
> > speech and give examples of the proper use of
> each
> > in a sentence.
>
> Why don't we ask randomly selected students in all
> Fairfax schools, to be fair.
That fine and while we're at it ask your two UVa grads.
> > Besides helping to get rid of Realista and
> > volunteering at innumberable events and
> functions,
> > what else can any parent do, storm the School
> > Board meeting?
We noticed you didn't answer the question.
> Innumerable events and functions? Define
> innumerable.
Over ten years, way too many to count.
> Again, what did Tom do to get rid of Reilly? As
> Tom has so often asked of other posters, please
> provide facts, dates, letters, etc. to back up
> those claims.
Spoke/complained to Webb, Domenech and Gibson with detailed reports of each her offenses.
Did you tell Gibson that you opposed IB when Webb told you about it?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > So you worked vociferously to keep the GT
> Center
> > available and convenient for your kids. How
> > wonderful.
>
> Once again, Tom shows his ignorance. My children
> were never in the GT program. Nevertheless, it
> would have hurt the school to lose that block of
> students and their involved parents. I'm sure Tom
> would have loved to kick them out though, another
> example of cutting off his nose to spite his
> face.
So your kids couldn't get into the Hughes GT program and still got into Mr. Jefferson's country club. Now what does that say about UVA.
> > Most college freshman writing courses include
> > grammar as part of the course of study.
>
> Most college freshman courses include grammar? I
> think not, unless once is taking remedial
> courses.
Well that explains why those UVA grads I interview can't write very well.
> > Here's a little test. Ask a dozen randomly
> > slected SL students to name the eight parts of
> > speech and give examples of the proper use of
> each
> > in a sentence.
>
> Why don't we ask randomly selected students in all
> Fairfax schools, to be fair.
That fine and while we're at it ask your two UVa grads.
> > Besides helping to get rid of Realista and
> > volunteering at innumberable events and
> functions,
> > what else can any parent do, storm the School
> > Board meeting?
We noticed you didn't answer the question.
> Innumerable events and functions? Define
> innumerable.
Over ten years, way too many to count.
> Again, what did Tom do to get rid of Reilly? As
> Tom has so often asked of other posters, please
> provide facts, dates, letters, etc. to back up
> those claims.
Spoke/complained to Webb, Domenech and Gibson with detailed reports of each her offenses.
Did you tell Gibson that you opposed IB when Webb told you about it?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:48PM
Please tell me where you work so I can make sure my kids never apply there. It's a wonder you even accept applications from UVa grads. You should just screen them out.
Just as I thought, spoke/complained but never did anything constructive.
Just as I thought, spoke/complained but never did anything constructive.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:52PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread is supposed to be about redistricting,
> not bashing South Lakes. By posting such negative
> and I might add, unconstructive comments about
> South Lakes, and refusing to acknowledge any good
> at the school, besides the student body, Tom has
> very much ill-served the South Lakes community.
As anyone who has read fairly read my postings would have already noticed, I praised several teachers, coaches and other personnel at SL. Panglossian obsequiousness does little for the credibility of any praise of SL.
> If I had considered being redistricted to SL and
> read this thread, I'd be running after reading the
> toxic comments from Tom.
and you'd be making a mistake
> Since Tom does seem to be a cut of his nose to
> spite his face person, perhaps that is his goal.
Well, mine is a little large, it could use some trimming. But since your angels are all out of SL, why do you persist in sticking yours into this thread?
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread is supposed to be about redistricting,
> not bashing South Lakes. By posting such negative
> and I might add, unconstructive comments about
> South Lakes, and refusing to acknowledge any good
> at the school, besides the student body, Tom has
> very much ill-served the South Lakes community.
As anyone who has read fairly read my postings would have already noticed, I praised several teachers, coaches and other personnel at SL. Panglossian obsequiousness does little for the credibility of any praise of SL.
> If I had considered being redistricted to SL and
> read this thread, I'd be running after reading the
> toxic comments from Tom.
and you'd be making a mistake
> Since Tom does seem to be a cut of his nose to
> spite his face person, perhaps that is his goal.
Well, mine is a little large, it could use some trimming. But since your angels are all out of SL, why do you persist in sticking yours into this thread?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 12:57PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please tell me where you work so I can make sure
> my kids never apply there.
You first.
> It's a wonder you even
> accept applications from UVa grads. You should
> just screen them out.
No, I actually read their lame writing samples first.
>
> Just as I thought, spoke/complained but never did
> anything constructive.
Like what exactly. Still haven't answered the question.
Is it because there isn't anything parents can do except comment, praise complain? Because we are basically helpless to change a bureaucracy so unwieldy and unresponsive that it took 7 years to get rid of that disaster.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please tell me where you work so I can make sure
> my kids never apply there.
You first.
> It's a wonder you even
> accept applications from UVa grads. You should
> just screen them out.
No, I actually read their lame writing samples first.
>
> Just as I thought, spoke/complained but never did
> anything constructive.
Like what exactly. Still haven't answered the question.
Is it because there isn't anything parents can do except comment, praise complain? Because we are basically helpless to change a bureaucracy so unwieldy and unresponsive that it took 7 years to get rid of that disaster.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:37PM
To parents with an open mind about IB:
Many students at South Lakes and nationwide have been well-served by the IB program. It is a crying shame that some parents seem to believe that only GT students are qualified for excellent colleges. It is all about working hard and taking advantage of the excellent programs provided through Fairfax County. Any student who has the will to work hard will succeed, despite sometimes even having terrible principals and/or parents and teachers. Conversely, some students are doomed to fail even if they hail from highly regarded schools. It is a matter of personal choice. That is what this country is based on, not claiming helplessness in the face of bureaucracies and administrators, but actually taking responsibility for one's own actions and future.
Many students at South Lakes and nationwide have been well-served by the IB program. It is a crying shame that some parents seem to believe that only GT students are qualified for excellent colleges. It is all about working hard and taking advantage of the excellent programs provided through Fairfax County. Any student who has the will to work hard will succeed, despite sometimes even having terrible principals and/or parents and teachers. Conversely, some students are doomed to fail even if they hail from highly regarded schools. It is a matter of personal choice. That is what this country is based on, not claiming helplessness in the face of bureaucracies and administrators, but actually taking responsibility for one's own actions and future.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:47PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>But since your angels are all out of
> SL, why do you persist in sticking yours into this
> thread?
For one who is so critical of the writing samples of others, particularly UVa graduates, I am surprised that Tom can't differentiate between angels and angles.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>But since your angels are all out of
> SL, why do you persist in sticking yours into this
> thread?
For one who is so critical of the writing samples of others, particularly UVa graduates, I am surprised that Tom can't differentiate between angels and angles.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:48PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To parents with an open mind about IB:
>
> Many students at South Lakes and nationwide have
> been well-served by the IB program. It is a
> crying shame that some parents seem to believe
> that only GT students are qualified for excellent
> colleges. It is all about working hard and taking
> advantage of the excellent programs provided
> through Fairfax County. Any student who has the
> will to work hard will succeed, despite sometimes
> even having terrible principals and/or parents and
> teachers. Conversely, some students are doomed to
> fail even if they hail from highly regarded
> schools. It is a matter of personal choice. That
> is what this country is based on, not claiming
> helplessness in the face of bureaucracies and
> administrators, but actually taking responsibility
> for one's own actions and future.
-------------------------------------------------------
> To parents with an open mind about IB:
>
> Many students at South Lakes and nationwide have
> been well-served by the IB program. It is a
> crying shame that some parents seem to believe
> that only GT students are qualified for excellent
> colleges. It is all about working hard and taking
> advantage of the excellent programs provided
> through Fairfax County. Any student who has the
> will to work hard will succeed, despite sometimes
> even having terrible principals and/or parents and
> teachers. Conversely, some students are doomed to
> fail even if they hail from highly regarded
> schools. It is a matter of personal choice. That
> is what this country is based on, not claiming
> helplessness in the face of bureaucracies and
> administrators, but actually taking responsibility
> for one's own actions and future.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 01:51PM
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> claiming
> helplessness in the face of bureaucracies and
> > administrators, but actually taking
> responsibility
> > for one's own actions and future.
Swallowed that Ayn Rand thing whole, uh? Or is it Horatio Allger?
> --------------------------------------------------
> claiming
> helplessness in the face of bureaucracies and
> > administrators, but actually taking
> responsibility
> > for one's own actions and future.
Swallowed that Ayn Rand thing whole, uh? Or is it Horatio Allger?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 02:02PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> For one who is so critical of the writing samples
> of others, particularly UVa graduates, I am
> surprised that Tom can't differentiate between
> angels and angles.
So you want us to infer that your angels are obtuse?
You're making it way too easy, while you're not answering our questions.
I can write. I just can't type. A JMU grad does that for me at my office.
More mirthfully later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> For one who is so critical of the writing samples
> of others, particularly UVa graduates, I am
> surprised that Tom can't differentiate between
> angels and angles.
So you want us to infer that your angels are obtuse?
You're making it way too easy, while you're not answering our questions.
I can write. I just can't type. A JMU grad does that for me at my office.
More mirthfully later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 27, 2007 02:14PM
Guess you can't proof, either.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 02:30PM
Can someone please explain to me why students that go the IB route at South Lakes are less prepared for college than those that take AP at Oakton? Is there any evidence to back up these claims?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 27, 2007 02:59PM
I am sure we can get you responses from current and graduated SLHS alums (who took IB courses and/or got the IB diploma).
Would that be helpful?
Would that be helpful?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 03:11PM
Rachel Carson Parent,
No, there is no evidence to back up this claim. Please don't take Thomas' posts as evidence. We find holes in his arguments all the time. Please read back a few pages, you will see that he rails against many things that I can't really discern why.
AP vs. IB, there are differences, but I would not be too upset about them. In the scheme of things, both AP and IB kids get good educations, get into college, get credit for some courses, and go from there. I think people are making too much of the distinction. That's my opinion. All you can do is investigate for yourself and your kids to see what you think. Perhaps contact an IB coordinator at a high school in fairfax county?
I think many people here want there to be a big difference, so they can use that as an argument why they shouldn't go to South Lakes.
No, there is no evidence to back up this claim. Please don't take Thomas' posts as evidence. We find holes in his arguments all the time. Please read back a few pages, you will see that he rails against many things that I can't really discern why.
AP vs. IB, there are differences, but I would not be too upset about them. In the scheme of things, both AP and IB kids get good educations, get into college, get credit for some courses, and go from there. I think people are making too much of the distinction. That's my opinion. All you can do is investigate for yourself and your kids to see what you think. Perhaps contact an IB coordinator at a high school in fairfax county?
I think many people here want there to be a big difference, so they can use that as an argument why they shouldn't go to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 27, 2007 03:31PM
if your high school is IB and you want AP, you can pupil place to another school.
conversely, if your school is AP and you want IB, you can pupil place to another school
one catch though, there has to be room for you at the other school
conversely, if your school is AP and you want IB, you can pupil place to another school
one catch though, there has to be room for you at the other school
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 03:42PM
Hi SlVerity,
Can you post about what you have found out about IB, like did your kids get credit for courses and at what institutions?
Anybody else's direct experience (not what you heard about your neighbor's friend's cousin, etc)?
Also, I looked at AP's site. They say that AP credit is given at "most" colleges, so unlike what Thomas says, it might not be as universal as all that.
Can you post about what you have found out about IB, like did your kids get credit for courses and at what institutions?
Anybody else's direct experience (not what you heard about your neighbor's friend's cousin, etc)?
Also, I looked at AP's site. They say that AP credit is given at "most" colleges, so unlike what Thomas says, it might not be as universal as all that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent (
()
Date: October 27, 2007 03:45PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sure we can get you responses from current
> and graduated SLHS alums (who took IB courses
> and/or got the IB diploma).
>
> Would that be helpful?
I am not sure that is what I am looking for. I have read lots of opinions in this forum, but I am trying to find more facts. I just checked the William and Mary, Virginia Tech, and UVA web sites and found that they all accept IB advanced level for credit given a sufficient test score. Does anyone know the percentage of AP students who get 3 or better on AP tests at Oakton compared to the number of Higher Level IB students who get 4 or better on the IB higher level tests?
Thanks!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sure we can get you responses from current
> and graduated SLHS alums (who took IB courses
> and/or got the IB diploma).
>
> Would that be helpful?
I am not sure that is what I am looking for. I have read lots of opinions in this forum, but I am trying to find more facts. I just checked the William and Mary, Virginia Tech, and UVA web sites and found that they all accept IB advanced level for credit given a sufficient test score. Does anyone know the percentage of AP students who get 3 or better on AP tests at Oakton compared to the number of Higher Level IB students who get 4 or better on the IB higher level tests?
Thanks!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 03:55PM
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone please explain to me why students that
> go the IB route at South Lakes are less prepared
> for college than those that take AP at Oakton? Is
> there any evidence to back up these claims?
>
> Thanks!
I don't think any studies had been published in a peer reviewed journal to say one way or the other.
I haven't read anyone suggested that either one is better than the other at preparing children for college.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone please explain to me why students that
> go the IB route at South Lakes are less prepared
> for college than those that take AP at Oakton? Is
> there any evidence to back up these claims?
>
> Thanks!
I don't think any studies had been published in a peer reviewed journal to say one way or the other.
I haven't read anyone suggested that either one is better than the other at preparing children for college.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 03:58PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi SlVerity,
> Can you post about what you have found out about
> IB, like did your kids get credit for courses and
> at what institutions?
>
> Anybody else's direct experience (not what you
> heard about your neighbor's friend's cousin,
> etc)?
>
> Also, I looked at AP's site. They say that AP
> credit is given at "most" colleges, so unlike what
> Thomas says, it might not be as universal as all
> that.
I have found no college in the U.S. that doesn't give advanced placement credit for a high score on the AP test. If you find one let us all know and whether it gives credit for IB test instead.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi SlVerity,
> Can you post about what you have found out about
> IB, like did your kids get credit for courses and
> at what institutions?
>
> Anybody else's direct experience (not what you
> heard about your neighbor's friend's cousin,
> etc)?
>
> Also, I looked at AP's site. They say that AP
> credit is given at "most" colleges, so unlike what
> Thomas says, it might not be as universal as all
> that.
I have found no college in the U.S. that doesn't give advanced placement credit for a high score on the AP test. If you find one let us all know and whether it gives credit for IB test instead.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 27, 2007 04:10PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guess you can't proof, either.
The JMU grad takes care of that too, if anything gets by grammaticheck.
When can we expect the answers to the questions posed which you continue to ignore?
Or are you afraid to answer the questions?
BTW I forgot to mention the thousands of dollars I gave or raised for the various boosters clubs, runnning an all night grad party, helping to build the concession stand and press box for the varsity softball ball field entirely with volunteer labor and donated materials, helping to get hundreds of thousands of dollars allocated to SL women's athletic facilities and helping to defend Linda Jones against the scurrilous and false accusations of Virginia and Candy Jones and her family. All of that before you angels even got to SL. Match that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guess you can't proof, either.
The JMU grad takes care of that too, if anything gets by grammaticheck.
When can we expect the answers to the questions posed which you continue to ignore?
Or are you afraid to answer the questions?
BTW I forgot to mention the thousands of dollars I gave or raised for the various boosters clubs, runnning an all night grad party, helping to build the concession stand and press box for the varsity softball ball field entirely with volunteer labor and donated materials, helping to get hundreds of thousands of dollars allocated to SL women's athletic facilities and helping to defend Linda Jones against the scurrilous and false accusations of Virginia and Candy Jones and her family. All of that before you angels even got to SL. Match that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 27, 2007 04:14PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Perhaps contact an IB coordinator
> at a high school in fairfax county?...
There's one difference - IB schools have an extra administrator/ coordinator level staff person on the payroll. It's a program from an outside vendor and costs over 8,000 per year as an enrolled HS along with exam fees, course fees, etc. We also have paid for training junkets /flights/hotels for teachers and administrators [years ago heard Gibson also went on a trip after IB went in] - not as simple as a class in NOVA at GMU or UVA. If FCPS wants to go IB then it should fire all it's curriculum/instructional services people and just pay IB which we do anyway at any school with the program. Students can still pay to take AP tests. If we have some kids taking IB exams and AP for the same course we should not pay for both. Based on the number of diploma candidates at any given school how many kids are in the higher level classes?
as per the IB website 20% of the actual diploma candidates do not get the diploma.
ib is also moving into more vocational ed stuff which I think FCPS might be purchasing [dev was on website and FCPS was talking about CTE at the mst recent school board meeting]
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Perhaps contact an IB coordinator
> at a high school in fairfax county?...
There's one difference - IB schools have an extra administrator/ coordinator level staff person on the payroll. It's a program from an outside vendor and costs over 8,000 per year as an enrolled HS along with exam fees, course fees, etc. We also have paid for training junkets /flights/hotels for teachers and administrators [years ago heard Gibson also went on a trip after IB went in] - not as simple as a class in NOVA at GMU or UVA. If FCPS wants to go IB then it should fire all it's curriculum/instructional services people and just pay IB which we do anyway at any school with the program. Students can still pay to take AP tests. If we have some kids taking IB exams and AP for the same course we should not pay for both. Based on the number of diploma candidates at any given school how many kids are in the higher level classes?
as per the IB website 20% of the actual diploma candidates do not get the diploma.
ib is also moving into more vocational ed stuff which I think FCPS might be purchasing [dev was on website and FCPS was talking about CTE at the mst recent school board meeting]
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Curious George
()
Date: October 27, 2007 05:49PM
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent why are you so concerned about OAKTON??
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 06:02PM
Here is W and M site for AP/IB
http://www.wm.edu/admission/?id=3750
And here is VTech's:
http://www.registrar.vt.edu/registration/tests_for_credit.php
http://www.wm.edu/admission/?id=3750
And here is VTech's:
http://www.registrar.vt.edu/registration/tests_for_credit.php
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concered Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 07:36PM
Curious George Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned Rachel Carson Parent why are you so
> concerned about OAKTON??
I want to understand why so many people on this forum, and in my community, are against the IB program at South Lakes. South Lakes is about twice as close as Oakton to where I live so it would be more convenient for my child to go there. I want to know, however, whether the IB program at South Lakes is an acceptable subsitute (or even bettter!) than AP at Oakton. I can't find any evidence to prove it either way, although there does seem to be a lot of opinions on the matter.
I am concerned about Oakton for the following reasons:
1) The AP pass rate at Oakton is 73% vs. 90% IB pass rate at South Lakes. I am still trying to find out if this is comparing apples to oranges because the South Lakes results might not be just for the IB high levels.
2) The distance from my house to Oakton (especially considering I66), doubles the chance of an automobile accident injuring my child. It also means my child will be spending time commuting that would be better spent in school, home, or outside activities.
3) Oakton is over-populated.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned Rachel Carson Parent why are you so
> concerned about OAKTON??
I want to understand why so many people on this forum, and in my community, are against the IB program at South Lakes. South Lakes is about twice as close as Oakton to where I live so it would be more convenient for my child to go there. I want to know, however, whether the IB program at South Lakes is an acceptable subsitute (or even bettter!) than AP at Oakton. I can't find any evidence to prove it either way, although there does seem to be a lot of opinions on the matter.
I am concerned about Oakton for the following reasons:
1) The AP pass rate at Oakton is 73% vs. 90% IB pass rate at South Lakes. I am still trying to find out if this is comparing apples to oranges because the South Lakes results might not be just for the IB high levels.
2) The distance from my house to Oakton (especially considering I66), doubles the chance of an automobile accident injuring my child. It also means my child will be spending time commuting that would be better spent in school, home, or outside activities.
3) Oakton is over-populated.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Curious George
()
Date: October 27, 2007 07:48PM
Concered Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious George Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Concerned Rachel Carson Parent why are you so
> > concerned about OAKTON??
>
>
> I want to understand why so many people on this
> forum, and in my community, are against the IB
> program at South Lakes. South Lakes is about
> twice as close as Oakton to where I live so it
> would be more convenient for my child to go there.
> I want to know, however, whether the IB program
> at South Lakes is an acceptable subsitute (or even
> bettter!) than AP at Oakton. I can't find any
> evidence to prove it either way, although there
> does seem to be a lot of opinions on the matter.
>
>
> I am concerned about Oakton for the following
> reasons:
>
> 1) The AP pass rate at Oakton is 73% vs. 90% IB
> pass rate at South Lakes. I am still trying to
> find out if this is comparing apples to oranges
> because the South Lakes results might not be just
> for the IB high levels.
> 2) The distance from my house to Oakton
> (especially considering I66), doubles the chance
> of an automobile accident injuring my child. It
> also means my child will be spending time
> commuting that would be better spent in school,
> home, or outside activities.
> 3) Oakton is over-populated.
response to 3 - Oakton is over crowded by 51 this year if every student is in class. by 2011 underpopulated by 250 according to FCPS web site
response to 2 - not a true fact, there is a stat that says X % of auto accidents happen within 3 miles of your residence. We could argue this until the redskins win the superbowl. Accidents happen any where at anytime not a valid point.
responce to 1 - the pass rate at Oakton you qouted is incorrect, please check with Dr. Banbury for the accurate number I believe it was 84% which is well above the national average. As far as comparing the two programs please check with the Mr. Moore/Mr. Priester/ Mr Hopkins etc... at Oakton the can give the facts on it but I think you will be pleasantly surprised to find out what you here regarding the two.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious George Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Concerned Rachel Carson Parent why are you so
> > concerned about OAKTON??
>
>
> I want to understand why so many people on this
> forum, and in my community, are against the IB
> program at South Lakes. South Lakes is about
> twice as close as Oakton to where I live so it
> would be more convenient for my child to go there.
> I want to know, however, whether the IB program
> at South Lakes is an acceptable subsitute (or even
> bettter!) than AP at Oakton. I can't find any
> evidence to prove it either way, although there
> does seem to be a lot of opinions on the matter.
>
>
> I am concerned about Oakton for the following
> reasons:
>
> 1) The AP pass rate at Oakton is 73% vs. 90% IB
> pass rate at South Lakes. I am still trying to
> find out if this is comparing apples to oranges
> because the South Lakes results might not be just
> for the IB high levels.
> 2) The distance from my house to Oakton
> (especially considering I66), doubles the chance
> of an automobile accident injuring my child. It
> also means my child will be spending time
> commuting that would be better spent in school,
> home, or outside activities.
> 3) Oakton is over-populated.
response to 3 - Oakton is over crowded by 51 this year if every student is in class. by 2011 underpopulated by 250 according to FCPS web site
response to 2 - not a true fact, there is a stat that says X % of auto accidents happen within 3 miles of your residence. We could argue this until the redskins win the superbowl. Accidents happen any where at anytime not a valid point.
responce to 1 - the pass rate at Oakton you qouted is incorrect, please check with Dr. Banbury for the accurate number I believe it was 84% which is well above the national average. As far as comparing the two programs please check with the Mr. Moore/Mr. Priester/ Mr Hopkins etc... at Oakton the can give the facts on it but I think you will be pleasantly surprised to find out what you here regarding the two.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 08:38PM
Hi Concerned RC Parent,
Where are you getting these statistics? I am curious because I didn't know these existed.
Curious George--you are right, we could argue the accident rate. On the assumption of linear probability, most of the accidents are going to be closer to your house, because more of your miles are driven close to your house (with your house as a starting point).
But there is a rate of accidents/mile driven. If you drive more miles, you are obviously more likely to have an accident.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2007 08:45PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Where are you getting these statistics? I am curious because I didn't know these existed.
Curious George--you are right, we could argue the accident rate. On the assumption of linear probability, most of the accidents are going to be closer to your house, because more of your miles are driven close to your house (with your house as a starting point).
But there is a rate of accidents/mile driven. If you drive more miles, you are obviously more likely to have an accident.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2007 08:45PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 27, 2007 11:19PM
Curious George Wrote:
>
> response to 3 - Oakton is over crowded by 51 this
> year if every student is in class. by 2011
> underpopulated by 250 according to FCPS web site
>
> response to 2 - not a true fact, there is a stat
> that says X % of auto accidents happen within 3
> miles of your residence. We could argue this
> until the redskins win the superbowl. Accidents
> happen any where at anytime not a valid point.
>
> responce to 1 - the pass rate at Oakton you qouted
> is incorrect, please check with Dr. Banbury for
> the accurate number I believe it was 84% which is
> well above the national average. As far as
> comparing the two programs please check with the
> Mr. Moore/Mr. Priester/ Mr Hopkins etc... at
> Oakton the can give the facts on it but I think
> you will be pleasantly surprised to find out what
> you here regarding the two.
The pass rates are from the school profiles on the FCPS web site
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:17:3045397937841566::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
If they are inaccurate then I hope someone will fix the site.
Obviously the more miles you drive in a year the more likely you are to get in an accident. That is why insurance companies charge you more when you have higher yearly milage. There is still the point that I would rather have my child doing other activities than commuting.
Thanks for the point on the over-enrollment at Oakton. If I can corroborate those numbers I will factor that into my position at the school board hearings.
>
> response to 3 - Oakton is over crowded by 51 this
> year if every student is in class. by 2011
> underpopulated by 250 according to FCPS web site
>
> response to 2 - not a true fact, there is a stat
> that says X % of auto accidents happen within 3
> miles of your residence. We could argue this
> until the redskins win the superbowl. Accidents
> happen any where at anytime not a valid point.
>
> responce to 1 - the pass rate at Oakton you qouted
> is incorrect, please check with Dr. Banbury for
> the accurate number I believe it was 84% which is
> well above the national average. As far as
> comparing the two programs please check with the
> Mr. Moore/Mr. Priester/ Mr Hopkins etc... at
> Oakton the can give the facts on it but I think
> you will be pleasantly surprised to find out what
> you here regarding the two.
The pass rates are from the school profiles on the FCPS web site
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:17:3045397937841566::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
If they are inaccurate then I hope someone will fix the site.
Obviously the more miles you drive in a year the more likely you are to get in an accident. That is why insurance companies charge you more when you have higher yearly milage. There is still the point that I would rather have my child doing other activities than commuting.
Thanks for the point on the over-enrollment at Oakton. If I can corroborate those numbers I will factor that into my position at the school board hearings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Gina
()
Date: October 28, 2007 12:59AM
Hello everyone..
I am a current student at South Lakes and it just disheartens me to hear all the negative things that are being said about my school. I understand both sides of this situation but if you guys can just look at it from a South Lakes student's perspective..honestly, it feels embarassing that parents don't want their kids around us.
South Lakes provide the same resources as other schools. Your child can get the same education at South Lakes, as in any other school. It all depends on making OWN effort to achieve.
I really wish everyone would just give us a chance because it seems like everyone has already made up their minds about South Lakes with no intent of changing their opinions. Statistics don't mean everything so please come visit the school or have your child shadow for a day and then, at least you have a conclusive opinion.
And this post is going to be pointless..because no matter what we say, it goes in one ear and out the other and the debate will just repeat with the same statistics said over and over again..
I am a current student at South Lakes and it just disheartens me to hear all the negative things that are being said about my school. I understand both sides of this situation but if you guys can just look at it from a South Lakes student's perspective..honestly, it feels embarassing that parents don't want their kids around us.
South Lakes provide the same resources as other schools. Your child can get the same education at South Lakes, as in any other school. It all depends on making OWN effort to achieve.
I really wish everyone would just give us a chance because it seems like everyone has already made up their minds about South Lakes with no intent of changing their opinions. Statistics don't mean everything so please come visit the school or have your child shadow for a day and then, at least you have a conclusive opinion.
And this post is going to be pointless..because no matter what we say, it goes in one ear and out the other and the debate will just repeat with the same statistics said over and over again..
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 28, 2007 01:09AM
Moving Fox Mill students to South Lakes does nothing to help over crowding at Westfield. Oakton isn't overcrowded, there is no need to take students from there. Isn't the goal to increase students at South Lakes and decrease students at Westfield?
The only thing that makes sense is to move Floris and McNair to South Lakes. Stu Gibson says that scores don't matter, and diversity is very important, so that should work. It will also meet with the least resistance and it won't bother any other school board member's district. It reduces enrollment at Wesfield and increases enrollment at South Lakes. It's a win-win for everyone.
The only thing that makes sense is to move Floris and McNair to South Lakes. Stu Gibson says that scores don't matter, and diversity is very important, so that should work. It will also meet with the least resistance and it won't bother any other school board member's district. It reduces enrollment at Wesfield and increases enrollment at South Lakes. It's a win-win for everyone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 28, 2007 01:19AM
If IB is as good as AP, why doesn't TJ have it? And why didn't Langley, Oakton, Madison, McLean, and Woodson want it? Woodson parents fought for TWO years to get rid of IB and go back to AP. Schools with the most educated parents, with the the highest percentages of students attending college, did NOT want IB. ALL of the top high schools chose AP over IB. That might tell you something. When half of the top high schools demand IB, or even one or two of them, I'd say the two programs are equal. Until then, I'd go with AP.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 28, 2007 01:35AM
A far higher percentage of students participate in AP than in IB. At South Lakes only 10% of the students passed the IB exam with a 4 or higher. (It goes up to 7 so a 4 is not a great score, most good colleges require a 5 for credit.) Only 140 students, 10%, will have a chance at ANY college credits. As opposed to 475 students at Oakton who got a 3 or better (5 is the top score) on an AP exam. ALL of those students have a chance at getting at least 3 hours of college credit at any college they choose.
Since so many more students took AP tests, one would expect the pass percentage to be lower.
Since so many more students took AP tests, one would expect the pass percentage to be lower.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 01:44AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Moving Fox Mill students to South Lakes does
> nothing to help over crowding at Westfield.
> Oakton isn't overcrowded, there is no need to take
> students from there. Isn't the goal to increase
> students at South Lakes and decrease students at
> Westfield?
>
> The only thing that makes sense is to move Floris
> and McNair to South Lakes. Stu Gibson says that
> scores don't matter, and diversity is very
> important, so that should work. It will also meet
> with the least resistance and it won't bother any
> other school board member's district. It reduces
> enrollment at Wesfield and increases enrollment at
> South Lakes. It's a win-win for everyone.
Floris and McNair are not contiguous with SL. School Board wants to eliminate attendance islands. Floris is far from SL. Its down to Fox Mill and either Crossfield or McNair. I'm betting on McNair. All of Navy moves from Chantilly to Oakton to replace Fox Mill and Floris replaces Navy at Chantilly.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 01:59AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Moving Fox Mill students to South Lakes does
> nothing to help over crowding at Westfield.
> Oakton isn't overcrowded, there is no need to take
> students from there. Isn't the goal to increase
> students at South Lakes and decrease students at
> Westfield?
>
> The only thing that makes sense is to move Floris
> and McNair to South Lakes. Stu Gibson says that
> scores don't matter, and diversity is very
> important, so that should work. It will also meet
> with the least resistance and it won't bother any
> other school board member's district. It reduces
> enrollment at Wesfield and increases enrollment at
> South Lakes. It's a win-win for everyone.
Floris and McNair are not contiguous with SL. School Board wants to eliminate attendance islands. Floris is far from SL. Its down to Fox Mill and either Crossfield or McNair. I'm betting on McNair. All of Navy moves from Chantilly to Oakton to replace Fox Mill and Floris replaces Navy at Chantilly.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 01:59AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 01:48AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If IB is as good as AP, why doesn't TJ have it?
> And why didn't Langley, Oakton, Madison, McLean,
> and Woodson want it? Woodson parents fought for
> TWO years to get rid of IB and go back to AP.
> Schools with the most educated parents, with the
> the highest percentages of students attending
> college, did NOT want IB. ALL of the top high
> schools chose AP over IB. That might tell you
> something. When half of the top high schools
> demand IB, or even one or two of them, I'd say the
> two programs are equal. Until then, I'd go with
> AP.
SlVerify says SL wasn't given a choice. Webb imposed it. Only 15-20% participate
in IB in any way. If the SL parents were polled, we would probably chose to go back to AP.
Wouldn't it be nice if the School Board took that poll of the redistricted community and followed it's recommendation. I know I'm dreaming.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 01:58AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If IB is as good as AP, why doesn't TJ have it?
> And why didn't Langley, Oakton, Madison, McLean,
> and Woodson want it? Woodson parents fought for
> TWO years to get rid of IB and go back to AP.
> Schools with the most educated parents, with the
> the highest percentages of students attending
> college, did NOT want IB. ALL of the top high
> schools chose AP over IB. That might tell you
> something. When half of the top high schools
> demand IB, or even one or two of them, I'd say the
> two programs are equal. Until then, I'd go with
> AP.
SlVerify says SL wasn't given a choice. Webb imposed it. Only 15-20% participate
in IB in any way. If the SL parents were polled, we would probably chose to go back to AP.
Wouldn't it be nice if the School Board took that poll of the redistricted community and followed it's recommendation. I know I'm dreaming.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 01:58AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 28, 2007 10:25AM
Concerned RC Parent,
When capacities of the schools are calculated, it looks to me like trailers are included. If trailers were taken out of the capacity numbers, those schools that look about right would be overenrolled.
Whether trailers should be included is a matter of debate. They are clearly not optimal--require students to go outside in the winter, they don't make up for cafeteria or other "core" space, and they are hot in summer, cold in winter. My daughter is always complaining about the temperature. This clearly can't be good for learning.
South Lakes will have no trailers.
When capacities of the schools are calculated, it looks to me like trailers are included. If trailers were taken out of the capacity numbers, those schools that look about right would be overenrolled.
Whether trailers should be included is a matter of debate. They are clearly not optimal--require students to go outside in the winter, they don't make up for cafeteria or other "core" space, and they are hot in summer, cold in winter. My daughter is always complaining about the temperature. This clearly can't be good for learning.
South Lakes will have no trailers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 10:28AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned RC Parent,
> When capacities of the schools are calculated, it
> looks to me like trailers are included. If
> trailers were taken out of the capacity numbers,
> those schools that look about right would be
> overenrolled.
>
> Whether trailers should be included is a matter of
> debate. They are clearly not optimal--require
> students to go outside in the winter, they don't
> make up for cafeteria or other "core" space, and
> they are hot in summer, cold in winter. My
> daughter is always complaining about the
> temperature. This clearly can't be good for
> learning.
>
> South Lakes will have no trailers.
Please help us understand how you reached this conclusion which will be an important piece of information at the mtgs.
Thanks for the hard work.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned RC Parent,
> When capacities of the schools are calculated, it
> looks to me like trailers are included. If
> trailers were taken out of the capacity numbers,
> those schools that look about right would be
> overenrolled.
>
> Whether trailers should be included is a matter of
> debate. They are clearly not optimal--require
> students to go outside in the winter, they don't
> make up for cafeteria or other "core" space, and
> they are hot in summer, cold in winter. My
> daughter is always complaining about the
> temperature. This clearly can't be good for
> learning.
>
> South Lakes will have no trailers.
Please help us understand how you reached this conclusion which will be an important piece of information at the mtgs.
Thanks for the hard work.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 28, 2007 11:01AM
Gina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello everyone..
>
> I am a current student at South Lakes and it just
> disheartens me to hear all the negative things
> that are being said about my school. I understand
> both sides of this situation but if you guys can
> just look at it from a South Lakes student's
> perspective..honestly, it feels embarassing that
> parents don't want their kids around us.
>
> South Lakes provide the same resources as other
> schools. Your child can get the same education at
> South Lakes, as in any other school. It all
> depends on making OWN effort to achieve.
>
> I really wish everyone would just give us a chance
> because it seems like everyone has already made up
> their minds about South Lakes with no intent of
> changing their opinions. Statistics don't mean
> everything so please come visit the school or have
> your child shadow for a day and then, at least you
> have a conclusive opinion.
>
> And this post is going to be pointless..because no
> matter what we say, it goes in one ear and out the
> other and the debate will just repeat with the
> same statistics said over and over again..
I DO have an open mind. That is why I am trying to get real information to understand the pros and cons of my area being redistricted from Oakton to South Lakes. Neen said:
"A far higher percentage of students participate in AP than in IB. At South Lakes only 10% of the students passed the IB exam with a 4 or higher. (It goes up to 7 so a 4 is not a great score, most good colleges require a 5 for credit.) Only 140 students, 10%, will have a chance at ANY college credits. As opposed to 475 students at Oakton who got a 3 or better (5 is the top score) on an AP exam. ALL of those students have a chance at getting at least 3 hours of college credit at any college they choose."
Frankly, I don't care what percentage of the school takes IB or AP and passes, and the fact that there are lower performing students at South Lakes in non-IB classes doesn't bother me. My child is bright and will be in an IB or AP program. Based upon Nene's observation that you really need a 5 on the IB tests to count for credit, I will amend my question as follows: What percentage of students at South Lakes in the IB program get a 5 or higher on their advanced levels, and what percentage of the students at Oakton in the AP program get a 3 or higher on their AP tests. In other words, how well are the upper end students taught at each school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello everyone..
>
> I am a current student at South Lakes and it just
> disheartens me to hear all the negative things
> that are being said about my school. I understand
> both sides of this situation but if you guys can
> just look at it from a South Lakes student's
> perspective..honestly, it feels embarassing that
> parents don't want their kids around us.
>
> South Lakes provide the same resources as other
> schools. Your child can get the same education at
> South Lakes, as in any other school. It all
> depends on making OWN effort to achieve.
>
> I really wish everyone would just give us a chance
> because it seems like everyone has already made up
> their minds about South Lakes with no intent of
> changing their opinions. Statistics don't mean
> everything so please come visit the school or have
> your child shadow for a day and then, at least you
> have a conclusive opinion.
>
> And this post is going to be pointless..because no
> matter what we say, it goes in one ear and out the
> other and the debate will just repeat with the
> same statistics said over and over again..
I DO have an open mind. That is why I am trying to get real information to understand the pros and cons of my area being redistricted from Oakton to South Lakes. Neen said:
"A far higher percentage of students participate in AP than in IB. At South Lakes only 10% of the students passed the IB exam with a 4 or higher. (It goes up to 7 so a 4 is not a great score, most good colleges require a 5 for credit.) Only 140 students, 10%, will have a chance at ANY college credits. As opposed to 475 students at Oakton who got a 3 or better (5 is the top score) on an AP exam. ALL of those students have a chance at getting at least 3 hours of college credit at any college they choose."
Frankly, I don't care what percentage of the school takes IB or AP and passes, and the fact that there are lower performing students at South Lakes in non-IB classes doesn't bother me. My child is bright and will be in an IB or AP program. Based upon Nene's observation that you really need a 5 on the IB tests to count for credit, I will amend my question as follows: What percentage of students at South Lakes in the IB program get a 5 or higher on their advanced levels, and what percentage of the students at Oakton in the AP program get a 3 or higher on their AP tests. In other words, how well are the upper end students taught at each school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 28, 2007 11:06AM
TM:
I beg to differ with your assertions: "Only 15-20% participate
in IB in any way [and} If the SL parents were polled, we would probably chose to go back to AP."
I will try to get actual figures asap, but I believe that more than 50% of SLHS kids (at each class level -- 9-12) are in IB or pre-IB courses now.
I also dispute your statement that "we" (SLHS parents) would choose to go back to AP. I have heard from a number of Hughes and SLHS parents who are pleased and excited, inter alia, by the rising performance measures (e.g., SAT scores, IB advanced scores, and Diploma candidates) that coincide with the implementation of IB at SLHS. So I don't think you are correct on this, either.
AP is a fine program, but I have seen (with my kids) the IB program as quite effective in developing critical thinking skills and writing abilities. So to "go back" to AP -- and dump IB -- makes no sense to me.
I beg to differ with your assertions: "Only 15-20% participate
in IB in any way [and} If the SL parents were polled, we would probably chose to go back to AP."
I will try to get actual figures asap, but I believe that more than 50% of SLHS kids (at each class level -- 9-12) are in IB or pre-IB courses now.
I also dispute your statement that "we" (SLHS parents) would choose to go back to AP. I have heard from a number of Hughes and SLHS parents who are pleased and excited, inter alia, by the rising performance measures (e.g., SAT scores, IB advanced scores, and Diploma candidates) that coincide with the implementation of IB at SLHS. So I don't think you are correct on this, either.
AP is a fine program, but I have seen (with my kids) the IB program as quite effective in developing critical thinking skills and writing abilities. So to "go back" to AP -- and dump IB -- makes no sense to me.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 28, 2007 11:18AM
Hi Concerned Rachel Carson Parent:
You may have gotten this information but the Post's Ed writer, Jay Mathews, has been writing and facilitating conversation on this (AB or IB) topic, and wrote on 10/9/07 about it most recently. In that piece, he noted a webchat discussion where people wrote in their experiences specifically on the college credit issue.
Apologies for not giving you a live link, but here is what I copied in the URL page, if that helps.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/community/groups/index.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aa70e3396-6663-4a8d-ba19-e44939d3c44fForum%3a5093b309-eb0a-47e2-b777-ea68b9dd478eDiscussion%3ab75543d9-7206-4ad7-94a1-5918de85d565
You may have gotten this information but the Post's Ed writer, Jay Mathews, has been writing and facilitating conversation on this (AB or IB) topic, and wrote on 10/9/07 about it most recently. In that piece, he noted a webchat discussion where people wrote in their experiences specifically on the college credit issue.
Apologies for not giving you a live link, but here is what I copied in the URL page, if that helps.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/community/groups/index.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aa70e3396-6663-4a8d-ba19-e44939d3c44fForum%3a5093b309-eb0a-47e2-b777-ea68b9dd478eDiscussion%3ab75543d9-7206-4ad7-94a1-5918de85d565
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 28, 2007 11:22AM
The IB, AP issue will provide an exit door to those not happy with their new school assignment. Those unhappy will pupil place... providing there is room.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 11:31AM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM:
>
> I beg to differ with your assertions: "Only 15-20%
> participate
> in IB in any way [and} If the SL parents were
> polled, we would probably chose to go back to
> AP."
>
> I will try to get actual figures asap, but I
> believe that more than 50% of SLHS kids (at each
> class level -- 9-12) are in IB or pre-IB courses
> now.
>
> I also dispute your statement that "we" (SLHS
> parents) would choose to go back to AP. I have
> heard from a number of Hughes and SLHS parents who
> are pleased and excited, inter alia, by the rising
> performance measures (e.g., SAT scores, IB
> advanced scores, and Diploma candidates) that
> coincide with the implementation of IB at SLHS.
> So I don't think you are correct on this, either.
>
> AP is a fine program, but I have seen (with my
> kids) the IB program as quite effective in
> developing critical thinking skills and writing
> abilities. So to "go back" to AP -- and dump IB --
> makes no sense to me.
Counting the 9 & 10 graders taking pre-IB classes artificially inflates the participation rates since almost all kids at SL are assigned to pre-IB classes in 9th and 10th and there is no pre-AP parallel in AP schools.
The 15-20% is based on the percentage taking the IB exam in a subject.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM:
>
> I beg to differ with your assertions: "Only 15-20%
> participate
> in IB in any way [and} If the SL parents were
> polled, we would probably chose to go back to
> AP."
>
> I will try to get actual figures asap, but I
> believe that more than 50% of SLHS kids (at each
> class level -- 9-12) are in IB or pre-IB courses
> now.
>
> I also dispute your statement that "we" (SLHS
> parents) would choose to go back to AP. I have
> heard from a number of Hughes and SLHS parents who
> are pleased and excited, inter alia, by the rising
> performance measures (e.g., SAT scores, IB
> advanced scores, and Diploma candidates) that
> coincide with the implementation of IB at SLHS.
> So I don't think you are correct on this, either.
>
> AP is a fine program, but I have seen (with my
> kids) the IB program as quite effective in
> developing critical thinking skills and writing
> abilities. So to "go back" to AP -- and dump IB --
> makes no sense to me.
Counting the 9 & 10 graders taking pre-IB classes artificially inflates the participation rates since almost all kids at SL are assigned to pre-IB classes in 9th and 10th and there is no pre-AP parallel in AP schools.
The 15-20% is based on the percentage taking the IB exam in a subject.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 28, 2007 11:51AM
Please, not to blame anyone, but
anyone posting stats such as 15% or 50% taking IB, please post your source (along with a date--anything older than a year may not be valid anymore) and preferably, a link. There is too much hearsay on this board and posting things like this clouds the issue and misinforms.
It's fine to post experiences, but don't make it sound official unless you have a good source.
Does everyone agree with this?
Thomas,
I have a map from the CIP site that has capacity numbers along with number of trailers for each school. This leads me to believe that trailer capacity is included in the capacity numbers. I asked this question of Stu at the SL PTA meeting and did not get a meaningful answer, but the way it is presented on the map makes me think so. I'll try to find the link--can't quite remember where I found it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 11:53AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
anyone posting stats such as 15% or 50% taking IB, please post your source (along with a date--anything older than a year may not be valid anymore) and preferably, a link. There is too much hearsay on this board and posting things like this clouds the issue and misinforms.
It's fine to post experiences, but don't make it sound official unless you have a good source.
Does everyone agree with this?
Thomas,
I have a map from the CIP site that has capacity numbers along with number of trailers for each school. This leads me to believe that trailer capacity is included in the capacity numbers. I asked this question of Stu at the SL PTA meeting and did not get a meaningful answer, but the way it is presented on the map makes me think so. I'll try to find the link--can't quite remember where I found it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 11:53AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 12:42PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> please post your source (along with a
> date--anything older than a year may not be valid
> anymore) and preferably, a link.
The 15-20% number came from the graduation program for the class of '06. Don't know if its' on line.
> Thomas,
> I have a map from the CIP site that has capacity
> numbers along with number of trailers for each
> school. This leads me to believe that trailer
> capacity is included in the capacity numbers. I
> asked this question of Stu at the SL PTA meeting
> and did not get a meaningful answer, but the way
> it is presented on the map makes me think so.
> I'll try to find the link--can't quite remember
> where I found it.
Look forward to seeing it but don't want to impose on you too much.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 12:43PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> please post your source (along with a
> date--anything older than a year may not be valid
> anymore) and preferably, a link.
The 15-20% number came from the graduation program for the class of '06. Don't know if its' on line.
> Thomas,
> I have a map from the CIP site that has capacity
> numbers along with number of trailers for each
> school. This leads me to believe that trailer
> capacity is included in the capacity numbers. I
> asked this question of Stu at the SL PTA meeting
> and did not get a meaningful answer, but the way
> it is presented on the map makes me think so.
> I'll try to find the link--can't quite remember
> where I found it.
Look forward to seeing it but don't want to impose on you too much.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 12:43PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 01:13PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the rising
> performance measures (e.g., SAT scores, IB
> advanced scores, and Diploma candidates) that
> coincide with the implementation of IB at SLHS.
Coincidence is not proof of causation.
SL's SATs were third in FFX in 2001 and fell from there until this year which coincides with the implementation of IB and, though I'm opposed to IB, I would not argue that this was the product of either IB or the disfunctional staff that Realista brought in.
I have been working on admissions for a top 50 national university for 30 years. It is widely understood in those circles that the permutations in aggregate SAT scores by schools correlates most closely to socio-economic variations in the student body from year to year, far more than anything the school does. [The BHE report is not forgotten]
It's this correlation that has caused many colleges to drop or devalue the SAT in the admissions process. It was in response to this problem that the College Board added the written essay three years ago. Because of the short track record on this essay, I know of no schools which have announced they are using this score in their admissions process and do know of several that have announced that they will not.
There was a series of articles on this issue in Atlantic Monthly within the last few years. It covered the history of the development and evolution of the SAT and was very informative.
The rise in the IB scores and number of diploma candidates should have happened simply through familiarity with the IB program by the teachers, students and staff. An example, as late as 2002, rising 8th graders were not advised that they had to take 5 yrs of one foreign language to be eligible for the diploma. Thus, prior to that date, kids were disqualified from the diploma before they even got to SL.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 04:11PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> the rising
> performance measures (e.g., SAT scores, IB
> advanced scores, and Diploma candidates) that
> coincide with the implementation of IB at SLHS.
Coincidence is not proof of causation.
SL's SATs were third in FFX in 2001 and fell from there until this year which coincides with the implementation of IB and, though I'm opposed to IB, I would not argue that this was the product of either IB or the disfunctional staff that Realista brought in.
I have been working on admissions for a top 50 national university for 30 years. It is widely understood in those circles that the permutations in aggregate SAT scores by schools correlates most closely to socio-economic variations in the student body from year to year, far more than anything the school does. [The BHE report is not forgotten]
It's this correlation that has caused many colleges to drop or devalue the SAT in the admissions process. It was in response to this problem that the College Board added the written essay three years ago. Because of the short track record on this essay, I know of no schools which have announced they are using this score in their admissions process and do know of several that have announced that they will not.
There was a series of articles on this issue in Atlantic Monthly within the last few years. It covered the history of the development and evolution of the SAT and was very informative.
The rise in the IB scores and number of diploma candidates should have happened simply through familiarity with the IB program by the teachers, students and staff. An example, as late as 2002, rising 8th graders were not advised that they had to take 5 yrs of one foreign language to be eligible for the diploma. Thus, prior to that date, kids were disqualified from the diploma before they even got to SL.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 04:11PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 28, 2007 03:46PM
Thomas,
I couldn't find the site with the map of high schools and utilization with trailers, but I did find something more definitive here
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm
Quote " It should be noted that those schools which are close to capacity continue to operate with numerous classroom trailers ranging from 18 trailers at Westfield High School to 3 trailers at Madison."
I couldn't find the site with the map of high schools and utilization with trailers, but I did find something more definitive here
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm
Quote " It should be noted that those schools which are close to capacity continue to operate with numerous classroom trailers ranging from 18 trailers at Westfield High School to 3 trailers at Madison."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 04:09PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I couldn't find the site with the map of high
> schools and utilization with trailers, but I did
> find something more definitive here
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/fa
> q.htm
>
> Quote " It should be noted that those schools
> which are close to capacity continue to operate
> with numerous classroom trailers ranging from 18
> trailers at Westfield High School to 3 trailers at
> Madison."
Thanks
I looked at the link and it led me to the FAQs on the Boundary Study. Was there a question or other heading I should be looking at?
I see why you pasted the quote but its somewhat ambiguous on whether trailers count toward capacity.
thanks again for all of the digging for info.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I couldn't find the site with the map of high
> schools and utilization with trailers, but I did
> find something more definitive here
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/fa
> q.htm
>
> Quote " It should be noted that those schools
> which are close to capacity continue to operate
> with numerous classroom trailers ranging from 18
> trailers at Westfield High School to 3 trailers at
> Madison."
Thanks
I looked at the link and it led me to the FAQs on the Boundary Study. Was there a question or other heading I should be looking at?
I see why you pasted the quote but its somewhat ambiguous on whether trailers count toward capacity.
thanks again for all of the digging for info.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 28, 2007 04:30PM
Thomas,
I thought the quote sounded pretty definitive. If trailers aren't counted, then why would Westfield need 18 if they are only just over capacity?
I thought the quote sounded pretty definitive. If trailers aren't counted, then why would Westfield need 18 if they are only just over capacity?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 28, 2007 05:08PM
Thomas, the quote is from one of the FAQs on that site. This site does address the many points brought up here, such as why not Langley, etc. FWIW.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 28, 2007 05:12PM
I too think it would be helpful if everyone would stop posting stats without backup, particularly since so many bad ones have been offered.
Gina, thank you for your very well-written comments. You do South Lakes proud.
We should be proposing that the school board approve allowing AP courses at SL that would fill in any gaps in the IB program in conjunction with the redistricting. Since that seems to be the primary reason why most on this site say they don't want to move to SL, that would solve the problem. If there are other reasons, I don't think they will have as much sway as the lack of AP.
SLPP - My children did receive IB credits at the University of VA for some courses. I know that the information is available through the IB coordinator at the school, and that the PTSA is currently compiling a fact sheet that I will post as soon as it is available.
In my opinion, high school is not about racking up college credits, but about preparing for college. My children tell me that they feel very well-prepared, particular when it comes to writing and critical thinking. I really can't ask for more than that.
In my experience, which is different from some posters, it was not the case that a majority of 9th and 10th graders were recommended for pre-IB courses. However, if 50% of students are participating in pre-IB now, then that is certainly a good indicator that they will continue with IB classes in their junior and senior years. It is a fact that the number of IB Diploma candidates has grown dramatically in the last two years. The numbers are roughly as follows:
2005 - 32 candidates
2006 - 27 candidates
2007 - 60+ candidates
2008 - 60+ candidates
I think those numbers bode well for the program. They early kinks related to language requirements, etc., have been worked out now for at least two years. Remember, not everyone is cut out to get the diploma, and one can even do quite well without it. A 2007 student is an Echols Scholar at UVa and was accepted into that prestigious program despite not being a diploma candidate.
Gina, thank you for your very well-written comments. You do South Lakes proud.
We should be proposing that the school board approve allowing AP courses at SL that would fill in any gaps in the IB program in conjunction with the redistricting. Since that seems to be the primary reason why most on this site say they don't want to move to SL, that would solve the problem. If there are other reasons, I don't think they will have as much sway as the lack of AP.
SLPP - My children did receive IB credits at the University of VA for some courses. I know that the information is available through the IB coordinator at the school, and that the PTSA is currently compiling a fact sheet that I will post as soon as it is available.
In my opinion, high school is not about racking up college credits, but about preparing for college. My children tell me that they feel very well-prepared, particular when it comes to writing and critical thinking. I really can't ask for more than that.
In my experience, which is different from some posters, it was not the case that a majority of 9th and 10th graders were recommended for pre-IB courses. However, if 50% of students are participating in pre-IB now, then that is certainly a good indicator that they will continue with IB classes in their junior and senior years. It is a fact that the number of IB Diploma candidates has grown dramatically in the last two years. The numbers are roughly as follows:
2005 - 32 candidates
2006 - 27 candidates
2007 - 60+ candidates
2008 - 60+ candidates
I think those numbers bode well for the program. They early kinks related to language requirements, etc., have been worked out now for at least two years. Remember, not everyone is cut out to get the diploma, and one can even do quite well without it. A 2007 student is an Echols Scholar at UVa and was accepted into that prestigious program despite not being a diploma candidate.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 28, 2007 05:20PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If IB is as good as AP, why doesn't TJ have it?
> And why didn't Langley, Oakton, Madison, McLean,
> and Woodson want it? Woodson parents fought for
> TWO years to get rid of IB and go back to AP.
> Schools with the most educated parents, with the
> the highest percentages of students attending
> college, did NOT want IB. ALL of the top high
> schools chose AP over IB. That might tell you
> something. When half of the top high schools
> demand IB, or even one or two of them, I'd say the
> two programs are equal. Until then, I'd go with
> AP.
Neen, the county chose to implement IB at only one high school in the western part of the county (it was a budgetary consideration). Some of the schools you mention did lobby to have it considered, but the decision had already been made by the Area III Supervisor Loretta Webb, to implement it at South Lakes.
With regards to Woodson, a small group of parents launched a campaign to rid the school of IB. They were very organized and vocal and blitzed every meeting with literature (not all of it accurate). They were successful in getting rid of the program, but not everyone at Woodson was happy about it. Incidentally, they passed along their boxes of literature to two women who lobbied hard against IB at SL, but they were not successful in their efforts, primarily because much of what they put out was inaccurate and easily refuted.
George Mason High School in the City of Falls Church has the IB program, and it is consistently ranked as one of the top schools in Northern Virginia with regards to both SAT scores and Jay Mathew's challenge index.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If IB is as good as AP, why doesn't TJ have it?
> And why didn't Langley, Oakton, Madison, McLean,
> and Woodson want it? Woodson parents fought for
> TWO years to get rid of IB and go back to AP.
> Schools with the most educated parents, with the
> the highest percentages of students attending
> college, did NOT want IB. ALL of the top high
> schools chose AP over IB. That might tell you
> something. When half of the top high schools
> demand IB, or even one or two of them, I'd say the
> two programs are equal. Until then, I'd go with
> AP.
Neen, the county chose to implement IB at only one high school in the western part of the county (it was a budgetary consideration). Some of the schools you mention did lobby to have it considered, but the decision had already been made by the Area III Supervisor Loretta Webb, to implement it at South Lakes.
With regards to Woodson, a small group of parents launched a campaign to rid the school of IB. They were very organized and vocal and blitzed every meeting with literature (not all of it accurate). They were successful in getting rid of the program, but not everyone at Woodson was happy about it. Incidentally, they passed along their boxes of literature to two women who lobbied hard against IB at SL, but they were not successful in their efforts, primarily because much of what they put out was inaccurate and easily refuted.
George Mason High School in the City of Falls Church has the IB program, and it is consistently ranked as one of the top schools in Northern Virginia with regards to both SAT scores and Jay Mathew's challenge index.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 06:25PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should be proposing that the school board
> approve allowing AP courses at SL that would fill
> in any gaps in the IB program in conjunction with
> the redistricting. Since that seems to be the
> primary reason why most on this site say they
> don't want to move to SL, that would solve the
> problem. If there are other reasons, I don't
> think they will have as much sway as the lack of
> AP.
Agreed. Providing lots of AP courses at SL would make scores of the families being redistricted, and many of the families already at SL, happy.
> However, if 50% of students are
> participating in pre-IB now, then that is
> certainly a good indicator that they will continue
> with IB classes in their junior and senior years.
Guidance counselors are making the pre-IB v. non-pre-IB course assignments. Those course assignments haven't change much over the last seven years. Hard to see whats going to increase the IB participation rates in the future.
> 2008 - 60+ candidates
So less than 5% of the 1400 kids at SL are pursuing the IB diploma. That would be lower than the numbers previously posted.
And yet a far higher proportion of SL grads (>50%) go on to 4 yr colleges, many without ever taking an IB exam on any subject.
What is this very expensive program doing for the majority of SL grads who are getting ready for college and aren't pursuing an IB diploma.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should be proposing that the school board
> approve allowing AP courses at SL that would fill
> in any gaps in the IB program in conjunction with
> the redistricting. Since that seems to be the
> primary reason why most on this site say they
> don't want to move to SL, that would solve the
> problem. If there are other reasons, I don't
> think they will have as much sway as the lack of
> AP.
Agreed. Providing lots of AP courses at SL would make scores of the families being redistricted, and many of the families already at SL, happy.
> However, if 50% of students are
> participating in pre-IB now, then that is
> certainly a good indicator that they will continue
> with IB classes in their junior and senior years.
Guidance counselors are making the pre-IB v. non-pre-IB course assignments. Those course assignments haven't change much over the last seven years. Hard to see whats going to increase the IB participation rates in the future.
> 2008 - 60+ candidates
So less than 5% of the 1400 kids at SL are pursuing the IB diploma. That would be lower than the numbers previously posted.
And yet a far higher proportion of SL grads (>50%) go on to 4 yr colleges, many without ever taking an IB exam on any subject.
What is this very expensive program doing for the majority of SL grads who are getting ready for college and aren't pursuing an IB diploma.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 28, 2007 08:28PM
You can take IB classes without pursuing the diploma. Fifty percent of students are taking IB classes without pursuing the diploma. The diploma is not intended for every student, just as the AP diploma is only intended for a small percentage of students in AP schools.
As an aside, it's not fair to use the entire population of SL students because SL has around 250 students in its mentally handicapped program, which incidentally pulls students from Oakton and other surrounding schools. I think we can agree that they would not be taking IB or AP classes.
As an aside, it's not fair to use the entire population of SL students because SL has around 250 students in its mentally handicapped program, which incidentally pulls students from Oakton and other surrounding schools. I think we can agree that they would not be taking IB or AP classes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 28, 2007 08:32PM
According to the school, participation rates in IB have increased dramatically over the last two years. Now that Amy Montecchio, formerly an AP at SL, is at Hughes, that will certainly continue.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 08:51PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As an aside, it's not fair to use the entire
> population of SL students because SL has around
> 250 students in its mentally handicapped program,
> which incidentally pulls students from Oakton and
> other surrounding schools. I think we can agree
> that they would not be taking IB or AP classes.
Asst. Principal for Special Ed. Antobelli says its 150.
But even using the 250 its still only 5% of non-mr enrollment.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 08:57PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> As an aside, it's not fair to use the entire
> population of SL students because SL has around
> 250 students in its mentally handicapped program,
> which incidentally pulls students from Oakton and
> other surrounding schools. I think we can agree
> that they would not be taking IB or AP classes.
Asst. Principal for Special Ed. Antobelli says its 150.
But even using the 250 its still only 5% of non-mr enrollment.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2007 08:57PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 08:52PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fifty percent of students are taking IB
> classes.
Does that include pre-IB classes? What's the source of this information?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fifty percent of students are taking IB
> classes.
Does that include pre-IB classes? What's the source of this information?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 08:54PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the school, participation rates in IB
> have increased dramatically over the last two
> years.
Which means what in terms of actual percentages or raw numbers of kids taking courses for which an IB exam is given at the end of the year?
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the school, participation rates in IB
> have increased dramatically over the last two
> years.
Which means what in terms of actual percentages or raw numbers of kids taking courses for which an IB exam is given at the end of the year?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 09:04PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that Amy Montecchio, formerly an AP at
> SL, is at Hughes, that will certainly continue.
Unless the number of foreign language teachers and alegebra teachers at Hughes is going to increase, IB participation numbers won't change.
Since the total number of teachers at a school is fixed by enrollment, increasing foreign language and alegebra teachers necessarily means reducing teachers for other subjects.
Which other courses at Hughes should be reduced to accomplish this?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that Amy Montecchio, formerly an AP at
> SL, is at Hughes, that will certainly continue.
Unless the number of foreign language teachers and alegebra teachers at Hughes is going to increase, IB participation numbers won't change.
Since the total number of teachers at a school is fixed by enrollment, increasing foreign language and alegebra teachers necessarily means reducing teachers for other subjects.
Which other courses at Hughes should be reduced to accomplish this?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 28, 2007 09:39PM
there are some teachers that prefer teaching in trailers, for this reason, Westfield has kept some of their trailers, even though they don't need all of them
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 28, 2007 09:57PM
>
> Floris and McNair are not contiguous with SL.
> School Board wants to eliminate attendance
> islands. Floris is far from SL. Its down to Fox
> Mill and either Crossfield or McNair. I'm betting
> on McNair. All of Navy moves from Chantilly to
> Oakton to replace Fox Mill and Floris replaces
> Navy at Chantilly.
If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield to Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going to Oakton, there are other Westfield communities that are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
> Floris and McNair are not contiguous with SL.
> School Board wants to eliminate attendance
> islands. Floris is far from SL. Its down to Fox
> Mill and either Crossfield or McNair. I'm betting
> on McNair. All of Navy moves from Chantilly to
> Oakton to replace Fox Mill and Floris replaces
> Navy at Chantilly.
If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield to Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going to Oakton, there are other Westfield communities that are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 28, 2007 09:58PM
Neen --
Where do you get the "At South Lakes only 10% of the students passed the IB exam with a 4 or higher"? That is like 70% too low.
Was this mistake willful, or just reckless?
Where do you get the "At South Lakes only 10% of the students passed the IB exam with a 4 or higher"? That is like 70% too low.
Was this mistake willful, or just reckless?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 10:22PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield to
> Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going to
> Oakton, there are other Westfield communities that
> are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area, it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other elementary schools do you have in mind?
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield to
> Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going to
> Oakton, there are other Westfield communities that
> are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area, it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other elementary schools do you have in mind?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 28, 2007 10:50PM
Thomas More, dude:
While the beautiful Sunday rolled by, you were prolix in directing your animus toward IB. Let's discuss.
First, you said ""Only 15-20% participate in IB in any way", and then announced that "in any way" did not include pre-IB or IBMYP classes. Hmmm....well, ok. You make the rules, I guess.
But are you including only IB Diploma candidates when defining those "who participate in any way"? Because you are still quite wrong in your assertion, even with the clarified, refined definition.
In the FCPS figures for SLHS:
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:17:2655071693884690::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
These numbers show for the 2005-06 year -- you noted the 06 Graduation program as your source for the 15-20% participation figure at one point today - there were:
698 11th and 12th graders (IB-eligible; not including pre-IB or IBMYP).
. Of those 698 students, 292 (41%) participated in IB.
. Of those 292, at least 183 (62%) took an IB exam.
. Of those 183, at least 140 (76%) received a 4 or greater score.
Second, you said that " less than 5% of the 1400 kids at SL are pursuing the IB diploma. That would be lower than the numbers previously posted."
http://www.fcps.edu/SouthLakesHS/ib_program/results_history.htm
In doing so, you are limiting the number of "kids at SL pursuing the IB diploma" to a single class year, e.g., 31 in 05 or 26 in 06.
But in fact, the number of kids pursuing the IB diploma includes kids from at least three years (I think, but am not certain, that students state the intent to 'pursue' the IB diploma in Sophomore year, meaning that one needs to count sophomores, juniors and seniors when determining the number "pursuing the IB diploma".) If they can declare in Freshman year, then the number would be greater still.
As SLVerity notes, participation rates in IB have increased dramatically over the last two years. But even without including any increased figures, there have been significantly more than "less than 5% of kids pursuing the IB diploma" these past several years.
Moreover, in highlighting the comparatively small % of IB Diploma candidates (when compared to kids who participate "in any way", e.g. by taking at least one class), you seem to be deliberately trying to obscure a legimate point of comparison of IB and AP: like AP, students can take one or more IB classes for extra GPA and possibly college credit. They are not compelled to pursue the Diploma if they so choose.
It is late, and I am tired. So I'll halt. But you are wrong on many specifics in your crusade against IB.
More -- I am quite sure -- later.
While the beautiful Sunday rolled by, you were prolix in directing your animus toward IB. Let's discuss.
First, you said ""Only 15-20% participate in IB in any way", and then announced that "in any way" did not include pre-IB or IBMYP classes. Hmmm....well, ok. You make the rules, I guess.
But are you including only IB Diploma candidates when defining those "who participate in any way"? Because you are still quite wrong in your assertion, even with the clarified, refined definition.
In the FCPS figures for SLHS:
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:17:2655071693884690::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
These numbers show for the 2005-06 year -- you noted the 06 Graduation program as your source for the 15-20% participation figure at one point today - there were:
698 11th and 12th graders (IB-eligible; not including pre-IB or IBMYP).
. Of those 698 students, 292 (41%) participated in IB.
. Of those 292, at least 183 (62%) took an IB exam.
. Of those 183, at least 140 (76%) received a 4 or greater score.
Second, you said that " less than 5% of the 1400 kids at SL are pursuing the IB diploma. That would be lower than the numbers previously posted."
http://www.fcps.edu/SouthLakesHS/ib_program/results_history.htm
In doing so, you are limiting the number of "kids at SL pursuing the IB diploma" to a single class year, e.g., 31 in 05 or 26 in 06.
But in fact, the number of kids pursuing the IB diploma includes kids from at least three years (I think, but am not certain, that students state the intent to 'pursue' the IB diploma in Sophomore year, meaning that one needs to count sophomores, juniors and seniors when determining the number "pursuing the IB diploma".) If they can declare in Freshman year, then the number would be greater still.
As SLVerity notes, participation rates in IB have increased dramatically over the last two years. But even without including any increased figures, there have been significantly more than "less than 5% of kids pursuing the IB diploma" these past several years.
Moreover, in highlighting the comparatively small % of IB Diploma candidates (when compared to kids who participate "in any way", e.g. by taking at least one class), you seem to be deliberately trying to obscure a legimate point of comparison of IB and AP: like AP, students can take one or more IB classes for extra GPA and possibly college credit. They are not compelled to pursue the Diploma if they so choose.
It is late, and I am tired. So I'll halt. But you are wrong on many specifics in your crusade against IB.
More -- I am quite sure -- later.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 28, 2007 10:53PM
Let's not forget we cannot move Floris anywhere without making McNair an Island. The only schools that border McNair are South Lakes and Herndon. Any takers?
You need to look at a map. Read the FAQ. McNair will be dealt to reduce Westfield.
If South Lakes doesn't want it, you should be looking to take Aldrin - and Herndon gets McNair. The Herndon people are way ahead of the game. Why do you think they want to keep everything in tact.
You need to look at a map. Read the FAQ. McNair will be dealt to reduce Westfield.
If South Lakes doesn't want it, you should be looking to take Aldrin - and Herndon gets McNair. The Herndon people are way ahead of the game. Why do you think they want to keep everything in tact.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 28, 2007 11:37PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's not forget we cannot move Floris anywhere
> without making McNair an Island. The only schools
> that border McNair are South Lakes and Herndon.
> Any takers?
>
> You need to look at a map. Read the FAQ. McNair
> will be dealt to reduce Westfield.
We are looking at the map. Gibson promised Armstong and Aldrin that they would not be redistricted in 2003. Meaning Fox Mill must go to SL and leaving the only question Crossfields of McNair to SL. If Crossfields is too large as previously posted, then it's definitely McNair, though I'm still waiting to see the Crossfields numbers.
> If South Lakes doesn't want it, you should be
> looking to take Aldrin - and Herndon gets McNair.
> The Herndon people are way ahead of the game. Why
> do you think they want to keep everything in tact.
Exactly. The Herndon PTA has been agressive, inducing Gibson to promise no redistricting in 2003, while the SL PTA has trusted Gibson, who is about to throw SL under the bus and give it McNair.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 12:13AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's not forget we cannot move Floris anywhere
> without making McNair an Island. The only schools
> that border McNair are South Lakes and Herndon.
> Any takers?
>
> You need to look at a map. Read the FAQ. McNair
> will be dealt to reduce Westfield.
We are looking at the map. Gibson promised Armstong and Aldrin that they would not be redistricted in 2003. Meaning Fox Mill must go to SL and leaving the only question Crossfields of McNair to SL. If Crossfields is too large as previously posted, then it's definitely McNair, though I'm still waiting to see the Crossfields numbers.
> If South Lakes doesn't want it, you should be
> looking to take Aldrin - and Herndon gets McNair.
> The Herndon people are way ahead of the game. Why
> do you think they want to keep everything in tact.
Exactly. The Herndon PTA has been agressive, inducing Gibson to promise no redistricting in 2003, while the SL PTA has trusted Gibson, who is about to throw SL under the bus and give it McNair.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 12:13AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:56AM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't want to disappoint you, my friend.
> While the beautiful Sunday rolled by, you were
> prolix in directing your animus toward IB. Let's
> discuss.
To relief your concern for my well beaing, please be advised, I got outside, went for a ride, looked at potential Xmas decorations and watched the Washington NFL team get hammered.
> First, you said ""Only 15-20% participate in IB in
> any way", and then announced that "in any way"
> did not include pre-IB or IBMYP classes.
> Hmmm....well, ok. You make the rules, I guess.
Just defining terms as one should in every syllogism. Since there is no parallel in the AP process to pre-IB and IBMYP, I chose to limit it to those taking standard and High Level (HL) IB courses. That may be too broad a definition since, as was earlier posted, some colleges only give advanced placement for HL courses. So are standard IB classes really the equivalent of AP courses. Apparently not in the view of several universities.
> In the FCPS figures for SLHS:
>
> 698 11th and 12th graders (IB-eligible; not
> including pre-IB or IBMYP).
FCPS doesn't give a total for that column but I add it up to be 718.
> Of those 698 students, 292 (41%) participated
> in IB.
If the number is 718, then the percentage is 40.6%. The FCPS counts kids taking both standard and higher level (HL) exams in the 292 number. [See earlier note.] And assuming the two classes are 50% of the student body, then 20% of the student body took an IB class, whether standard or HL.
> Of those 292, at least 183 (62%) took an IB
> exam.
Of the 718, 183 is 25% of the two Classes. Again assuming the two classes are 50% of the student body, then 12.7% of the student body took the exams for both standard and HL clasess.
> Of those 183, at least 140 (76%) received a 4
> or greater score.
Of the 718, 19% received a score of 4 or higher. If Neen's percentage is of the total student body, she's close.
I am comfortable with my 15-20% estimate based on the graduation program.
> In doing so, you are limiting the number of "kids
> at SL pursuing the IB diploma" to a single class
> year, e.g., 31 in 05 or 26 in 06.
We dont' know that because it wasn't clear whether the 60+ number from the earlier post was for the Class of '08 or for both the Class of '08 and '09. Perhaps the person who posted the 60+ can clarify that for all of us.
> participation rates in IB have
> increased dramatically over the last two years.
The link included in your posting connected to a chart showing the number taking the exams peaking in '03 at 239 and falling to 178 in '05 and recovering to only 201 in '06. Thats not an increase, it's a 16% DECLINE off the 2003 high. The trends going the wrong way for those supporting IB. But it's early and there's really not enough data points to reach a conclusion either way.
Mine is hardly a crusade. More an iconoclastic response to Panglossian obfuscation.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 12:59AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't want to disappoint you, my friend.
> While the beautiful Sunday rolled by, you were
> prolix in directing your animus toward IB. Let's
> discuss.
To relief your concern for my well beaing, please be advised, I got outside, went for a ride, looked at potential Xmas decorations and watched the Washington NFL team get hammered.
> First, you said ""Only 15-20% participate in IB in
> any way", and then announced that "in any way"
> did not include pre-IB or IBMYP classes.
> Hmmm....well, ok. You make the rules, I guess.
Just defining terms as one should in every syllogism. Since there is no parallel in the AP process to pre-IB and IBMYP, I chose to limit it to those taking standard and High Level (HL) IB courses. That may be too broad a definition since, as was earlier posted, some colleges only give advanced placement for HL courses. So are standard IB classes really the equivalent of AP courses. Apparently not in the view of several universities.
> In the FCPS figures for SLHS:
>
> 698 11th and 12th graders (IB-eligible; not
> including pre-IB or IBMYP).
FCPS doesn't give a total for that column but I add it up to be 718.
> Of those 698 students, 292 (41%) participated
> in IB.
If the number is 718, then the percentage is 40.6%. The FCPS counts kids taking both standard and higher level (HL) exams in the 292 number. [See earlier note.] And assuming the two classes are 50% of the student body, then 20% of the student body took an IB class, whether standard or HL.
> Of those 292, at least 183 (62%) took an IB
> exam.
Of the 718, 183 is 25% of the two Classes. Again assuming the two classes are 50% of the student body, then 12.7% of the student body took the exams for both standard and HL clasess.
> Of those 183, at least 140 (76%) received a 4
> or greater score.
Of the 718, 19% received a score of 4 or higher. If Neen's percentage is of the total student body, she's close.
I am comfortable with my 15-20% estimate based on the graduation program.
> In doing so, you are limiting the number of "kids
> at SL pursuing the IB diploma" to a single class
> year, e.g., 31 in 05 or 26 in 06.
We dont' know that because it wasn't clear whether the 60+ number from the earlier post was for the Class of '08 or for both the Class of '08 and '09. Perhaps the person who posted the 60+ can clarify that for all of us.
> participation rates in IB have
> increased dramatically over the last two years.
The link included in your posting connected to a chart showing the number taking the exams peaking in '03 at 239 and falling to 178 in '05 and recovering to only 201 in '06. Thats not an increase, it's a 16% DECLINE off the 2003 high. The trends going the wrong way for those supporting IB. But it's early and there's really not enough data points to reach a conclusion either way.
Mine is hardly a crusade. More an iconoclastic response to Panglossian obfuscation.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 12:59AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:57AM
>>>critical thinking skills<<<<
Hahahaha.......FCPS LOVES that phrase, it's one of their favorites, but have NO clue how to actually teach it. In fact, they don't even know what it means. But it sounds good, to many.
Hahahaha.......FCPS LOVES that phrase, it's one of their favorites, but have NO clue how to actually teach it. In fact, they don't even know what it means. But it sounds good, to many.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:09AM
Thomas More,
Yes, McNair is a given because of proximity to South Lakes. It's too far from Oakton to be sent there, and it's not close enough to Herndon. Fox Mill is close to South Lakes. McNair and Fox Mill. OR McNair and Aldrin/Armstong to South Lakes and Herndon gets Floris.
Yes, McNair is a given because of proximity to South Lakes. It's too far from Oakton to be sent there, and it's not close enough to Herndon. Fox Mill is close to South Lakes. McNair and Fox Mill. OR McNair and Aldrin/Armstong to South Lakes and Herndon gets Floris.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:11AM
>>>At South Lakes only 10% of the students passed the IB exam with a 4 or higher"?<<<
I did the math. 10% of the students at South Lakes scored barely passing on at least one IB test. I don't consider that impressive.
When will we know the number of IB diplomas at South Lakes this year, 2007? Not candidates, but those who actually got the diploma?
I did the math. 10% of the students at South Lakes scored barely passing on at least one IB test. I don't consider that impressive.
When will we know the number of IB diplomas at South Lakes this year, 2007? Not candidates, but those who actually got the diploma?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:15AM
>>>the county chose to implement IB at only one high school in the western part of the county (it was a budgetary consideration). Some of the schools you mention did lobby to have it considered, but the decision had already been made by the Area III Supervisor Loretta Webb, to implement it at South Lakes.<<<
Oh Please, have you heard any of the AP schools lobbying the school board for IB? Do you think if Langley wanted IB they wouldn't have it by now? If Madison wanted IB Stu wouldn't let them have it? The top schools don't want it! The other schools got stuck with it. It's not a terrible program, it's just not one that most parents of college bound students want. They just might know something.
It doesn't really matter, South Lakes has it. The other schools don't.
Oh Please, have you heard any of the AP schools lobbying the school board for IB? Do you think if Langley wanted IB they wouldn't have it by now? If Madison wanted IB Stu wouldn't let them have it? The top schools don't want it! The other schools got stuck with it. It's not a terrible program, it's just not one that most parents of college bound students want. They just might know something.
It doesn't really matter, South Lakes has it. The other schools don't.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:37AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Yes, McNair is a given because of proximity to
> South Lakes. It's too far from Oakton to be sent
> there, and it's not close enough to Herndon. Fox
> Mill is close to South Lakes. McNair and Fox
> Mill. OR McNair and Aldrin/Armstong to South
> Lakes and Herndon gets Floris.
McNair abuts the Herdon H.S. attendance area and is physically closer to HHS than SL.
Gibson has committed to Aldrin & Armstrong not to redistrict them to SL.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Yes, McNair is a given because of proximity to
> South Lakes. It's too far from Oakton to be sent
> there, and it's not close enough to Herndon. Fox
> Mill is close to South Lakes. McNair and Fox
> Mill. OR McNair and Aldrin/Armstong to South
> Lakes and Herndon gets Floris.
McNair abuts the Herdon H.S. attendance area and is physically closer to HHS than SL.
Gibson has committed to Aldrin & Armstrong not to redistrict them to SL.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:17AM
Thomas More,
What makes you think that Stu will honor a promise made 4 years ago? Can't he say that things have changed, projections were wrong (as they always are), yada, yada, yada. This year, Stu has refused tell Herndon parents that Aldrin and Armstong will not be moved.
Let's do the math, with the goal of reducing crowding at Westfield and placing 800 additional kids at SL. I used current enrollment at these schools, divided by 7 for how many students in each grade, then multiplied by 4 for the total number who would be in 4 high school grades at one time. A round about method, but it works.
McNair=520 in high school
Fox Mill=400
Aldrin=310
Armstrong=260
Crossfield=440
Floris=560
Navy=480
Madison Island==30 (at most since most of these kids won't go to South Lakes)
McNair is closest to South Lakes, so it goes, that's 500 students. Adding Floris, or Crossfield, or Fox Mill or Navy, adds too many students. Add Aldrin or Armstong to South Lakes, along with McNair, and the island, and the total to South Lakes is very close to 800. That's exactly how many students are needed to fill South Lakes. We can assume that most of the island won't go, and quite a few from Aldrin and Armstrong, but it should still be close to 700 to South Lakes.
Four years out, Herndon will be 350 under enrolled. Add another 300 for the loss of Aldrin or Armstong, for a total of 650. Send Floris, with 560 students, and Herndon's under enrollment is fixed.
Removing McNair and Floris from Westfield brings their enrollment closer to the 2,100 students that staff now claims is the perfect number of students.
That seems to me to be the most logical thing to come out of the community meetings. The easiest thing for Stu is to move Floris and McNair into South Lakes since they are both in his district. But that would put over 1,000 new students into South Lakes, presumably too many.
Of course we all know that the new projected enrollments, that won't be unveiled until after the election, will show South Lakes continuing to be very under enrolled, with Westfield and possibly Chantilly over enrolled. The numbers will show whatever they want them to show, whatever supports their planned agenda.
McNair has to go somewhere, if there is a goal to reduce crowding at Westfield. Since it's closest to South Lakes, that's where the community meetings will send it. Some people in Reston are foolish enough to believe that McNair will be sent to Oakton, 13 miles away, rather than South Lakes, 5 miles away. These same people believe that Stu will get Fox Mill and Crossfield into South Lakes and send McNair to Oakton. They're dreaming, if not delusional. There is no way the communities are going to agree to that. It makes no sense to have McNair hop over South Lakes to go all the way to Oakton. It also makes little sense to do a bunch of dominoes and upset even more communities.
OR, we could face the fact that none of these schools is seriously over enrolled and there is no reason for anyone to have to be forced to go to South Lakes. We can then vote for Arakelian against Stu and go back to the drawing boards.
What makes you think that Stu will honor a promise made 4 years ago? Can't he say that things have changed, projections were wrong (as they always are), yada, yada, yada. This year, Stu has refused tell Herndon parents that Aldrin and Armstong will not be moved.
Let's do the math, with the goal of reducing crowding at Westfield and placing 800 additional kids at SL. I used current enrollment at these schools, divided by 7 for how many students in each grade, then multiplied by 4 for the total number who would be in 4 high school grades at one time. A round about method, but it works.
McNair=520 in high school
Fox Mill=400
Aldrin=310
Armstrong=260
Crossfield=440
Floris=560
Navy=480
Madison Island==30 (at most since most of these kids won't go to South Lakes)
McNair is closest to South Lakes, so it goes, that's 500 students. Adding Floris, or Crossfield, or Fox Mill or Navy, adds too many students. Add Aldrin or Armstong to South Lakes, along with McNair, and the island, and the total to South Lakes is very close to 800. That's exactly how many students are needed to fill South Lakes. We can assume that most of the island won't go, and quite a few from Aldrin and Armstrong, but it should still be close to 700 to South Lakes.
Four years out, Herndon will be 350 under enrolled. Add another 300 for the loss of Aldrin or Armstong, for a total of 650. Send Floris, with 560 students, and Herndon's under enrollment is fixed.
Removing McNair and Floris from Westfield brings their enrollment closer to the 2,100 students that staff now claims is the perfect number of students.
That seems to me to be the most logical thing to come out of the community meetings. The easiest thing for Stu is to move Floris and McNair into South Lakes since they are both in his district. But that would put over 1,000 new students into South Lakes, presumably too many.
Of course we all know that the new projected enrollments, that won't be unveiled until after the election, will show South Lakes continuing to be very under enrolled, with Westfield and possibly Chantilly over enrolled. The numbers will show whatever they want them to show, whatever supports their planned agenda.
McNair has to go somewhere, if there is a goal to reduce crowding at Westfield. Since it's closest to South Lakes, that's where the community meetings will send it. Some people in Reston are foolish enough to believe that McNair will be sent to Oakton, 13 miles away, rather than South Lakes, 5 miles away. These same people believe that Stu will get Fox Mill and Crossfield into South Lakes and send McNair to Oakton. They're dreaming, if not delusional. There is no way the communities are going to agree to that. It makes no sense to have McNair hop over South Lakes to go all the way to Oakton. It also makes little sense to do a bunch of dominoes and upset even more communities.
OR, we could face the fact that none of these schools is seriously over enrolled and there is no reason for anyone to have to be forced to go to South Lakes. We can then vote for Arakelian against Stu and go back to the drawing boards.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:22AM
Thomas More,
Has Stu Gibson said that Armstrong and Aldrin won't go to South Lakes THIS YEAR? If he hasn't said since 2003, we can assume that bet is off, just as the Herndon PTA is assuming.
Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes district? If McNair goes to Herndon, what schools do they get to balance those demographics? Or does Herndon just become the new South Lakes? McNair will go to SL, along with some other school with higher demographics.
Has Stu Gibson said that Armstrong and Aldrin won't go to South Lakes THIS YEAR? If he hasn't said since 2003, we can assume that bet is off, just as the Herndon PTA is assuming.
Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes district? If McNair goes to Herndon, what schools do they get to balance those demographics? Or does Herndon just become the new South Lakes? McNair will go to SL, along with some other school with higher demographics.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:31AM
According to mapquest, McNair is 4.92 miles from Herndon high and 5.48 miles from South Lakes. Not much difference. I'm betting that Janie Straus won't allow McNair to go to Herndon. It will go to South Lakes along with some other school to balance demographics. Except that one other school won't be enough to balance the demographics.
There is no way that Oakton will lose BOTH Foxmill and Crossfield, that would take 840 students from Oakton, way too many.
There is no way that Oakton will lose BOTH Foxmill and Crossfield, that would take 840 students from Oakton, way too many.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chsparent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:24AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield
> to
> > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going
> to
> > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> that
> > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
>
> Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area,
> it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees
> Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> elementary schools do you have in mind?
FYI...what makes everyone think the former Navy ES kids are so anxious to leave Chantilly for Oakton? Not everyone thinks Oakton is the place to be, why should we be shuffled to a high school further away from the one we attend now, just because South Lakes is underenrolled. Leave us out of it please. We will also be attending the fcps meetings. Believe me, no one is happy. It's not just the schools that will have to attend south lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield
> to
> > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going
> to
> > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> that
> > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
>
> Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area,
> it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees
> Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> elementary schools do you have in mind?
FYI...what makes everyone think the former Navy ES kids are so anxious to leave Chantilly for Oakton? Not everyone thinks Oakton is the place to be, why should we be shuffled to a high school further away from the one we attend now, just because South Lakes is underenrolled. Leave us out of it please. We will also be attending the fcps meetings. Believe me, no one is happy. It's not just the schools that will have to attend south lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 07:07AM
The figures for Fox Mill are more like 460 students, with class size approaching 125 in the out years.
The figures for McNair are too high it's more like 450, Herndon alredy has McNair kids north of the Toll Rd.
South Lakes can hold 2100 with current enrollment at 1443, so there are about 650 seats. Subtract 30 for the Madision Island and you got 620. They're not going to fill it to capacity so subtract another 120 and you got 500 open seats. South Lakes can only pick up one ES not two.
The figures for McNair are too high it's more like 450, Herndon alredy has McNair kids north of the Toll Rd.
South Lakes can hold 2100 with current enrollment at 1443, so there are about 650 seats. Subtract 30 for the Madision Island and you got 620. They're not going to fill it to capacity so subtract another 120 and you got 500 open seats. South Lakes can only pick up one ES not two.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 08:16AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> district?
No.
Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> district?
No.
Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 08:19AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Has Stu Gibson said that Armstrong and Aldrin
> won't go to South Lakes THIS YEAR?
That's why he kept Langley out of the boundary study. It boxes Aldrin and Armstrong in.
It's also why he wouldn't respond to the suggestion to add Forestville at the SL PTA mtg & didn't mention the 2003 promise to Aldrin & Armstrong
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 08:40AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Has Stu Gibson said that Armstrong and Aldrin
> won't go to South Lakes THIS YEAR?
That's why he kept Langley out of the boundary study. It boxes Aldrin and Armstrong in.
It's also why he wouldn't respond to the suggestion to add Forestville at the SL PTA mtg & didn't mention the 2003 promise to Aldrin & Armstrong
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 08:40AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 08:54AM
There is a way to compare pre-IB to AP. AP students take honors courses in 9th and 10th grade as a way to prepare for AP classes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:03AM
Dear Word,
Why are you so afraid of McNair? Its seems you will use any form of pretzel logic (sans critical thinking skills) to come up with the scenario that McNair should come to South Lakes.
Using critical thinking skills, a casual observer may note that McNair 'looks' at lot like South Lakes.
Why are you so afraid of McNair? Its seems you will use any form of pretzel logic (sans critical thinking skills) to come up with the scenario that McNair should come to South Lakes.
Using critical thinking skills, a casual observer may note that McNair 'looks' at lot like South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:04AM
This is not correct...
> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
Currently South Lakes shares a border with McNair along Sunrise Valley Drive and Monroe St.
Fox Mill does not lie between SL and McNair. Fox Mill does not border McNair. Fox Mill borders Floris on the west side.
> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
Currently South Lakes shares a border with McNair along Sunrise Valley Drive and Monroe St.
Fox Mill does not lie between SL and McNair. Fox Mill does not border McNair. Fox Mill borders Floris on the west side.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:28AM
Despite what some on this site might think, the primary reason that South Lakes attendance numbers have dropped is really because Reston has aged while surrounding areas were adding new housing. Families tend to move into new housing.
I don't understand why some on this board think that we should not have a say regarding who comes into SL? We pay taxes here, just like those in surrounding communities do. In fact, I would wager that the tax receipts in Reston are much higher than Oak Hill by virtue of the businesses located here. I note that voting patterns in Oak Hill have moved decidedly more liberal over the last few years. Which politicians advocate affordable housing? Liberal ones. If you keep electing affordable housing advocates, then please expect to bear some of the burden for hosting those needing affordable housing. If you don't bear it in your neighborhood, then perhaps your schools are a good place to do so.
Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using Neen's and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area also borders S. Lakes and is much closer distance-wise to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes through the county, so making it a little longer wouldn't really change anything.
I don't understand why some on this board think that we should not have a say regarding who comes into SL? We pay taxes here, just like those in surrounding communities do. In fact, I would wager that the tax receipts in Reston are much higher than Oak Hill by virtue of the businesses located here. I note that voting patterns in Oak Hill have moved decidedly more liberal over the last few years. Which politicians advocate affordable housing? Liberal ones. If you keep electing affordable housing advocates, then please expect to bear some of the burden for hosting those needing affordable housing. If you don't bear it in your neighborhood, then perhaps your schools are a good place to do so.
Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using Neen's and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area also borders S. Lakes and is much closer distance-wise to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes through the county, so making it a little longer wouldn't really change anything.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:33AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a way to compare pre-IB to AP. AP
> students take honors courses in 9th and 10th grade
> as a way to prepare for AP classes.
Are those numbers available?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a way to compare pre-IB to AP. AP
> students take honors courses in 9th and 10th grade
> as a way to prepare for AP classes.
Are those numbers available?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:38AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using Neen's
> and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area also
> borders S. Lakes and is much closer distance-wise
> to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes
> through the county, so making it a little longer
> wouldn't really change anything.
Oh please, take a minute and look at the map. McNair would be an Island and they are doing away with Islands. Also, if Crossfield were removed, Fox Mill would be an Island. So there would be two Islands. You need to do a little "critical thinking" of your own.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using Neen's
> and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area also
> borders S. Lakes and is much closer distance-wise
> to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes
> through the county, so making it a little longer
> wouldn't really change anything.
Oh please, take a minute and look at the map. McNair would be an Island and they are doing away with Islands. Also, if Crossfield were removed, Fox Mill would be an Island. So there would be two Islands. You need to do a little "critical thinking" of your own.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:40AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> > Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using
> Neen's
> > and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area
> also
> > borders S. Lakes and is much closer
> distance-wise
> > to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes
> > through the county, so making it a little
> longer
> > wouldn't really change anything.
>
> Oh please, take a minute and look at the map.
> McNair would be an Island and they are doing away
> with Islands. Also, if Crossfield were removed,
> Fox Mill would be an Island. So there would be two
> Islands. You need to do a little "critical
> thinking" of your own.
Why is it that you are so afraid of staying in your neck of the woods?
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> > Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using
> Neen's
> > and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area
> also
> > borders S. Lakes and is much closer
> distance-wise
> > to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes
> > through the county, so making it a little
> longer
> > wouldn't really change anything.
>
> Oh please, take a minute and look at the map.
> McNair would be an Island and they are doing away
> with Islands. Also, if Crossfield were removed,
> Fox Mill would be an Island. So there would be two
> Islands. You need to do a little "critical
> thinking" of your own.
Why is it that you are so afraid of staying in your neck of the woods?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:41AM
Oops, meant to say McNair.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:41AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Despite what some on this site might think, the
> primary reason that South Lakes attendance numbers
> have dropped is really because Reston has aged
> while surrounding areas were adding new housing.
> Families tend to move into new housing.
Correct
> Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> Crossfield brought into South Lakes?
McNair would then be an attendance island which the School is trying to eliminate.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Despite what some on this site might think, the
> primary reason that South Lakes attendance numbers
> have dropped is really because Reston has aged
> while surrounding areas were adding new housing.
> Families tend to move into new housing.
Correct
> Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> Crossfield brought into South Lakes?
McNair would then be an attendance island which the School is trying to eliminate.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:42AM
I believe they are trying their best to eliminate attendance islands, but I don't think that is written in stone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:48AM
I don't think this discussion is all about maps. Maps are helpful to a point, but creating a larger under-performing school is not the solution the county is working for.
If AP schools are so great, why don't schools like Oakton open their minds and arms to accepting students from McNair. After all, they are more economically disadvantaged so racking up college credits via AP would be the best solution for those families least able to provide for their children's education. I would think that the pro-AP crowd would be more than happy to do their part.
\sarcasm off
If AP schools are so great, why don't schools like Oakton open their minds and arms to accepting students from McNair. After all, they are more economically disadvantaged so racking up college credits via AP would be the best solution for those families least able to provide for their children's education. I would think that the pro-AP crowd would be more than happy to do their part.
\sarcasm off
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:50AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Currently South Lakes shares a border with McNair
> along Sunrise Valley Drive and Monroe St.
>
> Fox Mill does not lie between SL and McNair. Fox
> Mill does not border McNair. Fox Mill borders
> Floris on the west side.
I sit corrected.
However, Fox Mill, which also abuts SL, has a keyhole extending into the SL attendance area and all of its attendance area is closer to SL than the bulk of McNair's.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Currently South Lakes shares a border with McNair
> along Sunrise Valley Drive and Monroe St.
>
> Fox Mill does not lie between SL and McNair. Fox
> Mill does not border McNair. Fox Mill borders
> Floris on the west side.
I sit corrected.
However, Fox Mill, which also abuts SL, has a keyhole extending into the SL attendance area and all of its attendance area is closer to SL than the bulk of McNair's.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:51AM
This can be engrossing, but I have to work....Nevertheless:
Using TM's analysis on 06 Oakton's AP's scores (and applying to what he suggests to be Neen's method) in including the overall student population, then "only" 21.4% of Oakton's student body passed (scored 3+) an AP test.
This is, per your calculation, compared to "only" 19% of SLHS's overall student body who passed (scored 4 or higher) an IB exam.
Not intended to slam Oakton (60% of 11th and 12th graders take AP classes, for example...), but I note for the record that the bullet points from your analyses (TM and Neen's) spin the facts to the detriment of SLHS and the IB program.
Using TM's analysis on 06 Oakton's AP's scores (and applying to what he suggests to be Neen's method) in including the overall student population, then "only" 21.4% of Oakton's student body passed (scored 3+) an AP test.
This is, per your calculation, compared to "only" 19% of SLHS's overall student body who passed (scored 4 or higher) an IB exam.
Not intended to slam Oakton (60% of 11th and 12th graders take AP classes, for example...), but I note for the record that the bullet points from your analyses (TM and Neen's) spin the facts to the detriment of SLHS and the IB program.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:54AM
Thank you Padre for your analysis.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:57AM
Thank you, SLVerity, for stating what should be obvious, but apparently isn't.
Crossfield already sends some kids to SL--Fox Mill Woods. Herndon already has some of McNair, so it would make sense for them to take more, if they have the capacity.
Personally, I think Westfield should keep McNair for purposes of socioeconomic balance. Herndon and South Lakes already have their share of underprivileged populations. This is a stated boundary study criteria, more important than distance, within reason.
Crossfield already sends some kids to SL--Fox Mill Woods. Herndon already has some of McNair, so it would make sense for them to take more, if they have the capacity.
Personally, I think Westfield should keep McNair for purposes of socioeconomic balance. Herndon and South Lakes already have their share of underprivileged populations. This is a stated boundary study criteria, more important than distance, within reason.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:05AM
What do you make of the part of Crossfields that already attends SL and the part of Oak Hill ES that already goes to Oakton?
The map I have shows no part of McNair currently going to HHS. Hutchinson is north of the toll road.
More Later
The map I have shows no part of McNair currently going to HHS. Hutchinson is north of the toll road.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:11AM
True, SPPP. The McNair population is transient, so not moving them creates the most stability for what is a less stable school than others feeding into Westfield.
Since Oakton is so fabulous, they can certainly do without Crossfield and still perform marvelously. Crossfield students would be a great addition to the already wonderful South Lakes community. In addition, they would be much closer to school. I know many Crossfield parents who would love to eliminate the long commute and earlier wake-up times needed to get to school.
I guess the downside to all of this is that surrounding schools would no longer have South Lakes to kick around and deride.
Since Oakton is so fabulous, they can certainly do without Crossfield and still perform marvelously. Crossfield students would be a great addition to the already wonderful South Lakes community. In addition, they would be much closer to school. I know many Crossfield parents who would love to eliminate the long commute and earlier wake-up times needed to get to school.
I guess the downside to all of this is that surrounding schools would no longer have South Lakes to kick around and deride.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:13AM
No part of Oak Hill ES goes to Oakton.
Very few Crossfield students go to South Lakes. Crossfield attendance area cuts off Fox Mill ES from Oakton making it an island.
McNair students north of toll rd (alabama ave) go to Hernon HS.
Very few Crossfield students go to South Lakes. Crossfield attendance area cuts off Fox Mill ES from Oakton making it an island.
McNair students north of toll rd (alabama ave) go to Hernon HS.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:20AM
As far as any Crossfield students that would love an easier commute...
Check out the earlier post on the Franklin Farm Survey which shows that only 3% of current Oakton HS families would like to be moved to South Lakes.
Check out the earlier post on the Franklin Farm Survey which shows that only 3% of current Oakton HS families would like to be moved to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:29AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield
> to
> > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going
> to
> > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> that
> > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
>
> Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area,
> it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees
> Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> elementary schools do you have in mind?
Deerpark, London Towne look good to me
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield
> to
> > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going
> to
> > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> that
> > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
>
> Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area,
> it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees
> Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> elementary schools do you have in mind?
Deerpark, London Towne look good to me
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:33AM
I thought Alabama Avenue kids went to Hutchinson and from there into Herndon.
I take it you are in the Crossfield district? What does it matter If very few Crossfield kids go to South Lakes? Right now NO McNair kids go to South Lakes.
I take it you are in the Crossfield district? What does it matter If very few Crossfield kids go to South Lakes? Right now NO McNair kids go to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:35AM
Word, I am sorry to disappoint, but it is not all about Oakton and keeping Oakton intact. You are part of a larger school system. If you didn't want to deal with these types of issues, you should have moved to the City of Falls Church or the City of Alexandria, where there is only one High School and thus no redistricting issues at the high school level.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:37AM
Don't South Lakes parents have just as much of a right to take a poll and decide where they want incoming students to come from? Why should that be dictated by Word, Neen, or Cricket?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:39AM
chsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If the thought is to shift kids from
> Westfield
> > to
> > > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids
> going
> > to
> > > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> > that
> > > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
> >
> > Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance
> area,
> > it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and
> Lees
> > Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> > elementary schools do you have in mind?
>
>
> FYI...what makes everyone think the former Navy ES
> kids are so anxious to leave Chantilly for Oakton?
> Not everyone thinks Oakton is the place to be,
> why should we be shuffled to a high school further
> away from the one we attend now, just because
> South Lakes is underenrolled. Leave us out of it
> please. We will also be attending the fcps
> meetings. Believe me, no one is happy. It's not
> just the schools that will have to attend south
> lakes.
I don't think this..(Navy is anxious to go to OHS), I just know the county tried to sneak this in during the last boundary study for the opening of Westfield. It didn't happen because too many protested.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If the thought is to shift kids from
> Westfield
> > to
> > > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids
> going
> > to
> > > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> > that
> > > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
> >
> > Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance
> area,
> > it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and
> Lees
> > Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> > elementary schools do you have in mind?
>
>
> FYI...what makes everyone think the former Navy ES
> kids are so anxious to leave Chantilly for Oakton?
> Not everyone thinks Oakton is the place to be,
> why should we be shuffled to a high school further
> away from the one we attend now, just because
> South Lakes is underenrolled. Leave us out of it
> please. We will also be attending the fcps
> meetings. Believe me, no one is happy. It's not
> just the schools that will have to attend south
> lakes.
I don't think this..(Navy is anxious to go to OHS), I just know the county tried to sneak this in during the last boundary study for the opening of Westfield. It didn't happen because too many protested.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:42AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
McNair's boundary butts up against SLHS (intersection of Monroe and Fox Mill area)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
McNair's boundary butts up against SLHS (intersection of Monroe and Fox Mill area)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:45AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe they are trying their best to eliminate
> attendance islands, but I don't think that is
> written in stone.
Then there goes the Madison Island argument.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe they are trying their best to eliminate
> attendance islands, but I don't think that is
> written in stone.
Then there goes the Madison Island argument.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:50AM
Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because very few students come from there. It was not South Lakes' argument to begin with.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:50AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't South Lakes parents have just as much of a
> right to take a poll and decide where they want
> incoming students to come from? Why should that
> be dictated by Word, Neen, or Cricket?
Sure you do, so why haven't you? I am not dictating anything..making suggestions just like everyone else. personally I only care about where my elementary school STAYS.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't South Lakes parents have just as much of a
> right to take a poll and decide where they want
> incoming students to come from? Why should that
> be dictated by Word, Neen, or Cricket?
Sure you do, so why haven't you? I am not dictating anything..making suggestions just like everyone else. personally I only care about where my elementary school STAYS.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:53AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because
> very few students come from there. It was not
> South Lakes' argument to begin with.
I know, SL didn't argue for this, but your school board members did (BTW, I don't assume that SLHS parents have argued for any of this). If McNair was created as an island, Madison would throw this in Stu's and the rest's face.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because
> very few students come from there. It was not
> South Lakes' argument to begin with.
I know, SL didn't argue for this, but your school board members did (BTW, I don't assume that SLHS parents have argued for any of this). If McNair was created as an island, Madison would throw this in Stu's and the rest's face.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:54AM
Word, Cricket, and Neen: If SL had AP classes, what would your argument against moving be, or would you have one? I am just trying to find a solution that is palatable to everyone, not one that would once again shaft the middle class of South Lakes, as so many past redistricting decisions have done.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:55AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because
> > very few students come from there. It was not
> > South Lakes' argument to begin with.
>
>
> I know, SL didn't argue for this, but your school
> board members did (BTW, I don't assume that SLHS
> parents have argued for any of this). If McNair
> was created as an island, Madison would throw this
> in Stu's and the rest's face.
And I would say fine. I'd rather have Crossfield than MI and McNair.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because
> > very few students come from there. It was not
> > South Lakes' argument to begin with.
>
>
> I know, SL didn't argue for this, but your school
> board members did (BTW, I don't assume that SLHS
> parents have argued for any of this). If McNair
> was created as an island, Madison would throw this
> in Stu's and the rest's face.
And I would say fine. I'd rather have Crossfield than MI and McNair.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:04AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No part of Oak Hill ES goes to Oakton.
Actually the map shows that a part does and my partner's kids did just that.
> McNair students north of toll rd (alabama ave) go
> to Hernon HS.
The map shows no part of McNair's attendance area north of the Toll Road and Alabama, being a long street, would go to either Herndon Elementary or Hutchison.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 11:10AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> No part of Oak Hill ES goes to Oakton.
Actually the map shows that a part does and my partner's kids did just that.
> McNair students north of toll rd (alabama ave) go
> to Hernon HS.
The map shows no part of McNair's attendance area north of the Toll Road and Alabama, being a long street, would go to either Herndon Elementary or Hutchison.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 11:10AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:05AM
SLVerity,
I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents should be organized and have a position on these issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the leadership on this issue, but they will not, for reasons I just don't understand.
I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents should be organized and have a position on these issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the leadership on this issue, but they will not, for reasons I just don't understand.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:13AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents
> should be organized and have a position on these
> issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the
> leadership on this issue, but they will not, for
> reasons I just don't understand.
AGREED!!
What is it with our PTA leadership or should I say PTA officers since I'm not seeing any leadership?
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents
> should be organized and have a position on these
> issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the
> leadership on this issue, but they will not, for
> reasons I just don't understand.
AGREED!!
What is it with our PTA leadership or should I say PTA officers since I'm not seeing any leadership?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:18AM
...
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:24AM
I know that the PTSA has been sending out emails (This Week at South Lakes) notifying parents about the upcoming redistricting meetings and asking parents to attend each meeting so that we will have a voice. They are also preparing a fact sheet which they will distribute prior to the first meeting, which is November 12th.
My kids are no longer in the school and I am receiving this information. If I am, surely those with students at the school must be, especially if they are registered with Keep in Touch.
My kids are no longer in the school and I am receiving this information. If I am, surely those with students at the school must be, especially if they are registered with Keep in Touch.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:25AM
Perhaps the PTSA needs folks like you step up and offer to help with the effort. They can't do it without the help of good concerned folks like you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:35AM
Thanks word that clarifies things alot.
The portion of McNair that goes to Herndon HS is the older part of its district with the loweer socio-economic group and the minority ethnic groups and ESOL population. The balance of McNair which goes to Westfields is recently constructed, upscale apartments and recently built upscale townhouses.
Why wouldn't either SL or Herndon want that?
I'd still prefer Aldrin to end the partition of Reston kids but the McNair neighborhoods south of the Toll Road shouldn't drag SL or HHS down from an s/e perspective. You'd have to see the numbers to be sure.
However, that long a commute would drag down extracurricular participation which we already have with the Polo neighborhoods west of the FFX Pkwy.
The portion of McNair that goes to Herndon HS is the older part of its district with the loweer socio-economic group and the minority ethnic groups and ESOL population. The balance of McNair which goes to Westfields is recently constructed, upscale apartments and recently built upscale townhouses.
Why wouldn't either SL or Herndon want that?
I'd still prefer Aldrin to end the partition of Reston kids but the McNair neighborhoods south of the Toll Road shouldn't drag SL or HHS down from an s/e perspective. You'd have to see the numbers to be sure.
However, that long a commute would drag down extracurricular participation which we already have with the Polo neighborhoods west of the FFX Pkwy.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:36AM
It appears that the SL PTSA is providing leadership. Link to the SL PTSA Website below. Redistricting is front and center with a link to more redistricting information. Please take the time to read it and step up. You are needed. If you can be this articulate on this forum, imagine how effective you will be in person.
http://southlakesptsa.org/
http://southlakesptsa.org/
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:37AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
personally I only care about where
> my elementary school STAYS.
I may have missed it earlier but which elementary school would that be?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
personally I only care about where
> my elementary school STAYS.
I may have missed it earlier but which elementary school would that be?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:40AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks word that clarifies things alot.
>
> The portion of McNair that goes to Herndon HS is
> the older part of its district with the loweer
> socio-economic group and the minority ethnic
> groups and ESOL population. The balance of McNair
> which goes to Westfields is recently constructed,
> upscale apartments and recently built upscale
> townhouses.
>
> Why wouldn't either SL or Herndon want that?
>
> I'd still prefer Aldrin to end the partition of
> Reston kids but the McNair neighborhoods south of
> the Toll Road shouldn't drag SL or HHS down from
> an s/e perspective. You'd have to see the numbers
> to be sure.
>
> However, that long a commute would drag down
> extracurricular participation which we already
> have with the Polo neighborhoods west of the FFX
> Pkwy.
I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I am seeing the low-income housing in Herndon along Alabama drive going to McNair. I really don't see that as South Lakes burden to bear.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks word that clarifies things alot.
>
> The portion of McNair that goes to Herndon HS is
> the older part of its district with the loweer
> socio-economic group and the minority ethnic
> groups and ESOL population. The balance of McNair
> which goes to Westfields is recently constructed,
> upscale apartments and recently built upscale
> townhouses.
>
> Why wouldn't either SL or Herndon want that?
>
> I'd still prefer Aldrin to end the partition of
> Reston kids but the McNair neighborhoods south of
> the Toll Road shouldn't drag SL or HHS down from
> an s/e perspective. You'd have to see the numbers
> to be sure.
>
> However, that long a commute would drag down
> extracurricular participation which we already
> have with the Polo neighborhoods west of the FFX
> Pkwy.
I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I am seeing the low-income housing in Herndon along Alabama drive going to McNair. I really don't see that as South Lakes burden to bear.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:41AM
I think the SLHS PTSA (with its leadership/officers) has been taking a strong, positive role in informing interested parties, including the 10/9 Parent Forum with the School Board candidates and the 10/17 meeting's focus on redistricting, as well as providing ongoing updates and opportunities for info.
It also has encouraged parents and interested members of the community to participate in the process, including the upcoming community meetings on redistricting, while not encouraging a "Us v. Them" mentality.
It has not -- quite appropriately -- taken the role of chief advocate in a "fight", nor has it sided with, or endorsed, any candidate or point of view -- other than to talk about what SLHS really is. And I applaud them for it (i.e., "it" = modeling appropriate behaviour by adults....).
It also has encouraged parents and interested members of the community to participate in the process, including the upcoming community meetings on redistricting, while not encouraging a "Us v. Them" mentality.
It has not -- quite appropriately -- taken the role of chief advocate in a "fight", nor has it sided with, or endorsed, any candidate or point of view -- other than to talk about what SLHS really is. And I applaud them for it (i.e., "it" = modeling appropriate behaviour by adults....).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:41AM
long commute... actually the go much further to get to Westfield right now
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:44AM
Thanks Padre, could not agree more.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:48AM
Once again... mcnair north of the toll rd already goes to Herndon HS. They already bearing the burden, and no one has suggested otherwise. It is McNair south of the toll rd we're talking about. They go to Westfield.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:53AM
Yes, and there are a lot of transient/apartments around the clock tower, in close proximity to the school itself.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:55AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word, Cricket, and Neen: If SL had AP classes,
> what would your argument against moving be, or
> would you have one? I am just trying to find a
> solution that is palatable to everyone, not one
> that would once again shaft the middle class of
> South Lakes, as so many past redistricting
> decisions have done.
I am not looking for you to find a solution. At this point, I don't particularily care about AP/IB (I don't think I have even had anything to say about the subject). What makes you think that AP/IB is the bulk of the argument? Many families have other concerns to consider than just keeping their kids at the top of their high school. We and most of our community don't want to move anywhere. Who is to say we are even going to SLHS? We have been the butt of too many county indecisions and poor planning efforts in the last 10 years. We would prefer to find some stability for our children. I would prefer they just find someone else to pick on. I prefer that my daughter stays at the school she is currently enrolled in. I prefer that my son joins her when the time comes. I prefer not to travel back and forth between 2 schools to meet competing needs of my children. I prefer not to join 2 PTAs and multiple booster clubs. I prefer not to pitted against neighbors and friends throughout the Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield communities. I don't expect you to have solutions for this. I am prepared to fix whatever I need to, to provide what is best for my children,if that time comes. I prefer that they just leave us alone, so that I don't have to fix anything.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word, Cricket, and Neen: If SL had AP classes,
> what would your argument against moving be, or
> would you have one? I am just trying to find a
> solution that is palatable to everyone, not one
> that would once again shaft the middle class of
> South Lakes, as so many past redistricting
> decisions have done.
I am not looking for you to find a solution. At this point, I don't particularily care about AP/IB (I don't think I have even had anything to say about the subject). What makes you think that AP/IB is the bulk of the argument? Many families have other concerns to consider than just keeping their kids at the top of their high school. We and most of our community don't want to move anywhere. Who is to say we are even going to SLHS? We have been the butt of too many county indecisions and poor planning efforts in the last 10 years. We would prefer to find some stability for our children. I would prefer they just find someone else to pick on. I prefer that my daughter stays at the school she is currently enrolled in. I prefer that my son joins her when the time comes. I prefer not to travel back and forth between 2 schools to meet competing needs of my children. I prefer not to join 2 PTAs and multiple booster clubs. I prefer not to pitted against neighbors and friends throughout the Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield communities. I don't expect you to have solutions for this. I am prepared to fix whatever I need to, to provide what is best for my children,if that time comes. I prefer that they just leave us alone, so that I don't have to fix anything.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:56AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> personally I only care about where
> > my elementary school STAYS.
>
> I may have missed it earlier but which elementary
> school would that be?
does it matter?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> personally I only care about where
> > my elementary school STAYS.
>
> I may have missed it earlier but which elementary
> school would that be?
does it matter?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:00PM
SLVerity Wrote:
> I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I am seeing
> the low-income housing in Herndon along Alabama
> drive going to McNair. I really don't see that as
> South Lakes burden to bear.
If I'm reading the maps right, and you have to look at two different attendance maps, McNair has the townhouses north of Alabama and west of the low-income housing. It also has the townhouses south of Alabama opposite the baseball field. But these kids go to HHS now, not Westfield.
Looking at McNair's demographics in the aggregate is deceiving because of the split in attendance. Some of McNairs kids go to HHS, the part north of the Toll Road. The kids south of the Toll Road from the recently built multis and towns go to Westifield. Those families would raise the demographics of either SL or HHS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 12:01PM by Thomas More.
> I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I am seeing
> the low-income housing in Herndon along Alabama
> drive going to McNair. I really don't see that as
> South Lakes burden to bear.
If I'm reading the maps right, and you have to look at two different attendance maps, McNair has the townhouses north of Alabama and west of the low-income housing. It also has the townhouses south of Alabama opposite the baseball field. But these kids go to HHS now, not Westfield.
Looking at McNair's demographics in the aggregate is deceiving because of the split in attendance. Some of McNairs kids go to HHS, the part north of the Toll Road. The kids south of the Toll Road from the recently built multis and towns go to Westifield. Those families would raise the demographics of either SL or HHS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 12:01PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:00PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents
> should be organized and have a position on these
> issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the
> leadership on this issue, but they will not, for
> reasons I just don't understand.
There are other PTA's that won't touch this. Probably for several reasons. too bad, though.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents
> should be organized and have a position on these
> issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the
> leadership on this issue, but they will not, for
> reasons I just don't understand.
There are other PTA's that won't touch this. Probably for several reasons. too bad, though.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:01PM
Cricket Wrote:
> does it matter?
Sure helps put your comments in perspective.
More Later
> does it matter?
Sure helps put your comments in perspective.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:07PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the SLHS PTSA (with its
> leadership/officers) has been taking a strong,
> positive role in informing interested parties,
> including the 10/9 Parent Forum with the School
> Board candidates and the 10/17 meeting's focus on
> redistricting, as well as providing ongoing
> updates and opportunities for info.
> It has not -- quite appropriately -- taken the
> role of chief advocate in a "fight", nor has it
> sided with, or endorsed, any candidate or point of
> view -- other than to talk about what SLHS really
> is. And I applaud them for it (i.e., "it" =
> modeling appropriate behaviour by adults....).
Unlike the HHS, Aldrin, Armstong, Fox Mill, Crossfields PTAs, it has not adopted a preferred outcome to this process and is thus losing ground to the agendas of other PTAs.
They are way too passive. It's like they are dutifully waiting for Stu to tell them the outcome when he figures it all out politically.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the SLHS PTSA (with its
> leadership/officers) has been taking a strong,
> positive role in informing interested parties,
> including the 10/9 Parent Forum with the School
> Board candidates and the 10/17 meeting's focus on
> redistricting, as well as providing ongoing
> updates and opportunities for info.
> It has not -- quite appropriately -- taken the
> role of chief advocate in a "fight", nor has it
> sided with, or endorsed, any candidate or point of
> view -- other than to talk about what SLHS really
> is. And I applaud them for it (i.e., "it" =
> modeling appropriate behaviour by adults....).
Unlike the HHS, Aldrin, Armstong, Fox Mill, Crossfields PTAs, it has not adopted a preferred outcome to this process and is thus losing ground to the agendas of other PTAs.
They are way too passive. It's like they are dutifully waiting for Stu to tell them the outcome when he figures it all out politically.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:10PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> long commute... actually the go much further to
> get to Westfield right now
I'm not advocating for leaving them at Westfield. They need to go to either Herndon or SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> long commute... actually the go much further to
> get to Westfield right now
I'm not advocating for leaving them at Westfield. They need to go to either Herndon or SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:10PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > does it matter?
>
> Sure helps put your comments in perspective.
I think my comments are general enough that they don't need to be tagged to a school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > does it matter?
>
> Sure helps put your comments in perspective.
I think my comments are general enough that they don't need to be tagged to a school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:15PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, and there are a lot of transient/apartments
> around the clock tower, in close proximity to the
> school itself.
Two points
1) Multis don't generate lots of highs school aged kids, Less that one for every two units.
2) Check the rents on those places. It's definitely not low income housing.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, and there are a lot of transient/apartments
> around the clock tower, in close proximity to the
> school itself.
Two points
1) Multis don't generate lots of highs school aged kids, Less that one for every two units.
2) Check the rents on those places. It's definitely not low income housing.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:16PM
Cricket Wrote:
> I think my comments are general enough that they
> don't need to be tagged to a school.
Then we'll be left to guess and my guess is Crossfields.
More Later
> I think my comments are general enough that they
> don't need to be tagged to a school.
Then we'll be left to guess and my guess is Crossfields.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:25PM
With regards to PTSA leadership, SL PTSA has also reached down into the lower schools in the pyramid to invite parents' to participate by reminding them that their children will be the most affected.
As to other PTSA's taking a position, I am not sure that the PTSA can legally do so, if I call recall from other boundary disputes. Perhaps other PTSAs are over-stepping their bounds.
It is hard to take a position when no proposals have been put on the table. I think the PTSA is being very judicious at this point.
Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious to know how poor planning has affected your community. As I've said before, South Lakes has suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are still paying the price for those today. I just don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.' Perhaps you could make me understand?
As to other PTSA's taking a position, I am not sure that the PTSA can legally do so, if I call recall from other boundary disputes. Perhaps other PTSAs are over-stepping their bounds.
It is hard to take a position when no proposals have been put on the table. I think the PTSA is being very judicious at this point.
Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious to know how poor planning has affected your community. As I've said before, South Lakes has suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are still paying the price for those today. I just don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.' Perhaps you could make me understand?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:54PM
Questions -
1) Does anyone really know why Langley wasn't included in the boundary study - besides saying that current school board members are too gutless to go up against Great Falls and high end Reston parents? I can't find a single rational person who thinks it makes sense for a kid off Route 7 in RESTON or HERNDON to drive to McLean for high school. It's a bare minimum of 45 minutes to get to Langley (at current school start times).
FYI - back in the day - ALL of Great Falls west of Springvale (Forestville Elem) used to go to Herndon high school.
Moving the "untouchables" along the south side of Route 7 to Armstrong, Aldrin, or Forest Edge could be a positive socio-economic bump in the numbers of either SLHS or HHS. Then Aldrin could be moved to SLHS connecting even more of Reston to the high school. Although I would like to see both Aldrin AND Armstrong moved to SLHS, that would put Herndon in the same position that South Lakes is in now, and I agree with Armstrong parents that Herndon is closer than South Lakes. Herndon is in a precarious situation mostly holding on by Aldrin and Armstrong. No South Lakes parents want to balance SL at the expense of Herndon. But moving Reston 7 folks to Herndon could balance those lost with Aldrin. Both Aldrin and Armstrong kids go to Forest Edge (SLHS pyramid) for GT then on to Hughes for middle school. They move back to Herndon for high school or have to pupil place to continue on at South Lakes with the kids they'be been with for 6 years - what kind of screwed up logic is that?
2) Is there anyway to "change" or "amend" the study area based on the outcome of the meetings? In other words, do we live with the limitations of the study parameters and make the best of a bad situation or do we all protest loudly to include Langley?
And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all - he is only one of 12!
I've heard what he said in 2003 but rumors were flying recently that he said Aldrin/Armstrong should move.
1) Does anyone really know why Langley wasn't included in the boundary study - besides saying that current school board members are too gutless to go up against Great Falls and high end Reston parents? I can't find a single rational person who thinks it makes sense for a kid off Route 7 in RESTON or HERNDON to drive to McLean for high school. It's a bare minimum of 45 minutes to get to Langley (at current school start times).
FYI - back in the day - ALL of Great Falls west of Springvale (Forestville Elem) used to go to Herndon high school.
Moving the "untouchables" along the south side of Route 7 to Armstrong, Aldrin, or Forest Edge could be a positive socio-economic bump in the numbers of either SLHS or HHS. Then Aldrin could be moved to SLHS connecting even more of Reston to the high school. Although I would like to see both Aldrin AND Armstrong moved to SLHS, that would put Herndon in the same position that South Lakes is in now, and I agree with Armstrong parents that Herndon is closer than South Lakes. Herndon is in a precarious situation mostly holding on by Aldrin and Armstrong. No South Lakes parents want to balance SL at the expense of Herndon. But moving Reston 7 folks to Herndon could balance those lost with Aldrin. Both Aldrin and Armstrong kids go to Forest Edge (SLHS pyramid) for GT then on to Hughes for middle school. They move back to Herndon for high school or have to pupil place to continue on at South Lakes with the kids they'be been with for 6 years - what kind of screwed up logic is that?
2) Is there anyway to "change" or "amend" the study area based on the outcome of the meetings? In other words, do we live with the limitations of the study parameters and make the best of a bad situation or do we all protest loudly to include Langley?
And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all - he is only one of 12!
I've heard what he said in 2003 but rumors were flying recently that he said Aldrin/Armstrong should move.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 12:57PM
Old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is actually from Old Timer - poor typing skills left off the "Timer."
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is actually from Old Timer - poor typing skills left off the "Timer."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:10PM
Old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Questions -
>
> 1) Does anyone really know why Langley wasn't
> included in the boundary study - besides saying
> that current school board members are too gutless
> to go up against Great Falls and high end Reston
> parents? I can't find a single rational person
> who thinks it makes sense for a kid off Route 7 in
> RESTON or HERNDON to drive to McLean for high
> school. It's a bare minimum of 45 minutes to get
> to Langley (at current school start times).
Agreed.
> FYI - back in the day - ALL of Great Falls west of
> Springvale (Forestville Elem) used to go to
> Herndon high school.
Stu told us that at the SL PTA mtg.
> 2) Is there anyway to "change" or "amend" the
> study area based on the outcome of the meetings?
> In other words, do we live with the limitations of
> the study parameters and make the best of a bad
> situation or do we all protest loudly to include
> Langley?
Stu is adamant that the School Board regs don't allow it but if you read the regs it is not as clear as Stu would have you believe. Another reason to believe that he will follow his 2003 promise to leave Aldrin and Armstrong out.
> And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all
> - he is only one of 12!
They all defer to each other like petty dictators with four years terms.
> I've heard what he said in 2003 but rumors were
> flying recently that he said Aldrin/Armstrong
> should move.
That could be a reaction to his saying at the SL PTA mtg that he understood the rationale for moving Aldrin and Armstrong. But he was very coy, never mentioned his 2003 promise to Aldrin and Armstrong, and never responded to amending the boundary study area until pressed by e-mail after the mtg.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:13PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Questions -
>
> 1) Does anyone really know why Langley wasn't
> included in the boundary study - besides saying
> that current school board members are too gutless
> to go up against Great Falls and high end Reston
> parents? I can't find a single rational person
> who thinks it makes sense for a kid off Route 7 in
> RESTON or HERNDON to drive to McLean for high
> school. It's a bare minimum of 45 minutes to get
> to Langley (at current school start times).
Agreed.
> FYI - back in the day - ALL of Great Falls west of
> Springvale (Forestville Elem) used to go to
> Herndon high school.
Stu told us that at the SL PTA mtg.
> 2) Is there anyway to "change" or "amend" the
> study area based on the outcome of the meetings?
> In other words, do we live with the limitations of
> the study parameters and make the best of a bad
> situation or do we all protest loudly to include
> Langley?
Stu is adamant that the School Board regs don't allow it but if you read the regs it is not as clear as Stu would have you believe. Another reason to believe that he will follow his 2003 promise to leave Aldrin and Armstrong out.
> And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all
> - he is only one of 12!
They all defer to each other like petty dictators with four years terms.
> I've heard what he said in 2003 but rumors were
> flying recently that he said Aldrin/Armstrong
> should move.
That could be a reaction to his saying at the SL PTA mtg that he understood the rationale for moving Aldrin and Armstrong. But he was very coy, never mentioned his 2003 promise to Aldrin and Armstrong, and never responded to amending the boundary study area until pressed by e-mail after the mtg.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:13PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:13PM
From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
The primary purpose of the boundary study is to reduce the student
population at Westfield and Chantilly and take advantage of the vacant
seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too far away from
Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw down the numbers at
Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were sent to Southy Lakes,
they would be taking space that would be better used by students who
actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
Thank you for your question.
Sincerely,
Jane K. Strauss
...this is why McNair is in play
The primary purpose of the boundary study is to reduce the student
population at Westfield and Chantilly and take advantage of the vacant
seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too far away from
Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw down the numbers at
Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were sent to Southy Lakes,
they would be taking space that would be better used by students who
actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
Thank you for your question.
Sincerely,
Jane K. Strauss
...this is why McNair is in play
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:14PM
>
> Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious
> to know how poor planning has affected your
> community. As I've said before, South Lakes has
> suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are
> still paying the price for those today. I just
> don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> Perhaps you could make me understand?
I am not saying Oakton and Westfield are suffering, I am saying the communities are affected and then I don't think suffering is the correct word. There are some communities in 20171 whose boundaries keep spinning around for one reason or another. Don't think we would care so much if it just happened once, but it keeps happening over and over. We are just tired of always having to be on the defensive w/the county.
> Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious
> to know how poor planning has affected your
> community. As I've said before, South Lakes has
> suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are
> still paying the price for those today. I just
> don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> Perhaps you could make me understand?
I am not saying Oakton and Westfield are suffering, I am saying the communities are affected and then I don't think suffering is the correct word. There are some communities in 20171 whose boundaries keep spinning around for one reason or another. Don't think we would care so much if it just happened once, but it keeps happening over and over. We are just tired of always having to be on the defensive w/the county.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:17PM
do we all protest loudly to include
> Langley?
>
> And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all
> - he is only one of 12!
>
get out and vote, clean house and then there maybe a chance
> Langley?
>
> And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all
> - he is only one of 12!
>
get out and vote, clean house and then there maybe a chance
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:17PM
Thomas,
I have a map of affordable rental apartments in the county and it shows a disproportinate number of units in the McNair area south of the toll road. There is a disparity betwenen what you say and what i see on the map. Why would this be?
I have a map of affordable rental apartments in the county and it shows a disproportinate number of units in the McNair area south of the toll road. There is a disparity betwenen what you say and what i see on the map. Why would this be?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:20PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play
Jane also told a neighbor that she won't vote for anything that will harm Herndon - meaning, I assume, moving Aldrin isn't viable to her unless the loss was balanced with an equitable gain.
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play
Jane also told a neighbor that she won't vote for anything that will harm Herndon - meaning, I assume, moving Aldrin isn't viable to her unless the loss was balanced with an equitable gain.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:21PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With regards to PTSA leadership, SL PTSA has also
> reached down into the lower schools in the pyramid
> to invite parents' to participate by reminding
> them that their children will be the most
> affected.
>
> As to other PTSA's taking a position, I am not
> sure that the PTSA can legally do so, if I call
> recall from other boundary disputes. Perhaps
> other PTSAs are over-stepping their bounds.
>
> It is hard to take a position when no proposals
> have been put on the table. I think the PTSA is
> being very judicious at this point.
>
> Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious
> to know how poor planning has affected your
> community. As I've said before, South Lakes has
> suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are
> still paying the price for those today. I just
> don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> Perhaps you could make me understand?
PTA can't engage in partisan politics but they lobby the School Board and the Board of Supervisors all of the time on issues. SL PTA can and should agree on a preferred outcome and pursue it, even if its not the one I would support, instead of being passive and nuetral like a bunch of drugged out hippies.
I'd feel better if there had been outreach to the Aldrin and Armstrong communities.
Butler has met with both Crossfields and Fox Mill PTAs but I've heard of no meeting with Aldrin, Armstrong of McNair.
All of which re-enforces the idea that its Fox Mill and/or Crossfields.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> With regards to PTSA leadership, SL PTSA has also
> reached down into the lower schools in the pyramid
> to invite parents' to participate by reminding
> them that their children will be the most
> affected.
>
> As to other PTSA's taking a position, I am not
> sure that the PTSA can legally do so, if I call
> recall from other boundary disputes. Perhaps
> other PTSAs are over-stepping their bounds.
>
> It is hard to take a position when no proposals
> have been put on the table. I think the PTSA is
> being very judicious at this point.
>
> Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious
> to know how poor planning has affected your
> community. As I've said before, South Lakes has
> suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are
> still paying the price for those today. I just
> don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> Perhaps you could make me understand?
PTA can't engage in partisan politics but they lobby the School Board and the Board of Supervisors all of the time on issues. SL PTA can and should agree on a preferred outcome and pursue it, even if its not the one I would support, instead of being passive and nuetral like a bunch of drugged out hippies.
I'd feel better if there had been outreach to the Aldrin and Armstrong communities.
Butler has met with both Crossfields and Fox Mill PTAs but I've heard of no meeting with Aldrin, Armstrong of McNair.
All of which re-enforces the idea that its Fox Mill and/or Crossfields.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:23PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play
That verbiage is straight off the FAQ on the School Board website. They're circling the wagons.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play
That verbiage is straight off the FAQ on the School Board website. They're circling the wagons.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:25PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I have a map of affordable rental apartments in
> the county and it shows a disproportinate number
> of units in the McNair area south of the toll
> road. There is a disparity betwenen what you say
> and what i see on the map. Why would this be?
I've actually priced apartments in that area for potential employees. What map are you looking at?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I have a map of affordable rental apartments in
> the county and it shows a disproportinate number
> of units in the McNair area south of the toll
> road. There is a disparity betwenen what you say
> and what i see on the map. Why would this be?
I've actually priced apartments in that area for potential employees. What map are you looking at?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:25PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play
Ms. Strauss' msg. doesn't make a lot of sense or she is so crafty she purposely provided holes so she can recuse herself later. She doesn't specifically state that the first two "study purposes" leads to a solution to the third purpose. And her last sentence is pretty pathetic. I am kinda embarrassed for her. How ironic she in on the school board, think she just needs to go back to school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play
Ms. Strauss' msg. doesn't make a lot of sense or she is so crafty she purposely provided holes so she can recuse herself later. She doesn't specifically state that the first two "study purposes" leads to a solution to the third purpose. And her last sentence is pretty pathetic. I am kinda embarrassed for her. How ironic she in on the school board, think she just needs to go back to school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:26PM
Cricket Wrote:
> get out and vote, clean house and then there maybe
> a chance
"A chance" depends on your perspective. I want boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want no redistricting?
> get out and vote, clean house and then there maybe
> a chance
"A chance" depends on your perspective. I want boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want no redistricting?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:28PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> > reasons why you don't want to move. I am
> curious
> > to know how poor planning has affected your
> > community. As I've said before, South Lakes
> has
> > suffered from bad decisions in the past. We
> are
> > still paying the price for those today. I just
> > don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> > Perhaps you could make me understand?
>
> I am not saying Oakton and Westfield are
> suffering, I am saying the communities are
> affected and then I don't think suffering is the
> correct word. There are some communities in 20171
> whose boundaries keep spinning around for one
> reason or another. Don't think we would care so
> much if it just happened once, but it keeps
> happening over and over. We are just tired of
> always having to be on the defensive w/the county.
So now I'm guessing Floris.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> > reasons why you don't want to move. I am
> curious
> > to know how poor planning has affected your
> > community. As I've said before, South Lakes
> has
> > suffered from bad decisions in the past. We
> are
> > still paying the price for those today. I just
> > don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> > Perhaps you could make me understand?
>
> I am not saying Oakton and Westfield are
> suffering, I am saying the communities are
> affected and then I don't think suffering is the
> correct word. There are some communities in 20171
> whose boundaries keep spinning around for one
> reason or another. Don't think we would care so
> much if it just happened once, but it keeps
> happening over and over. We are just tired of
> always having to be on the defensive w/the county.
So now I'm guessing Floris.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
See Hawk
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:28PM
Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are dangerous.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:29PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "A chance" depends on your perspective. I want
> boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for
> Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want
> no redistricting?
She has committed to adding Langley to the study. Check out her website.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:36PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> "A chance" depends on your perspective. I want
> boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for
> Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want
> no redistricting?
She has committed to adding Langley to the study. Check out her website.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:36PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:30PM
Fox Mill and Crossfield initiated the meetings, not Board Members or South Lakes.
According to reports, both were hostile at best.
According to reports, both were hostile at best.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:32PM
See Hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her
> neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are
> dangerous.
That Stu's propaganda. She's very bright. She was on the Lovaas show and is definitely neither a one-issue wonder nor batty. She is concerned about the deterioration in test performance at three elementary schools in the Hunter Mill District.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:39PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her
> neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are
> dangerous.
That Stu's propaganda. She's very bright. She was on the Lovaas show and is definitely neither a one-issue wonder nor batty. She is concerned about the deterioration in test performance at three elementary schools in the Hunter Mill District.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:39PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
See Hawk
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:32PM
Clarification: I meant the kids in the neighborhood, not her kids.
But I truly do think it's important to look at her qualifications and stances, beyond just being the "anti-Stu" on the RD issue.
But I truly do think it's important to look at her qualifications and stances, beyond just being the "anti-Stu" on the RD issue.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:40PM
McNair has a history of challenges. There was an article in the Washington Post a couple of years ago that highlighted teacher's struggles to teach some of the students. I was too cheap to purchase the article to cut and paste here, but here is the first paragraph and reference info.
"This year, McNair is the only high-poverty Fairfax school that didn't meet No Child standards for three consecutive years and must now allow children to transfer to other schools and provide private tutoring. High turnover is only one challenge at McNair, where 40 percent of children are learning English and 40 percent are from low- income families..."
Maria Glod
Date: Aug 28, 2005
Section: METRO
Text Word Count: 1185
"This year, McNair is the only high-poverty Fairfax school that didn't meet No Child standards for three consecutive years and must now allow children to transfer to other schools and provide private tutoring. High turnover is only one challenge at McNair, where 40 percent of children are learning English and 40 percent are from low- income families..."
Maria Glod
Date: Aug 28, 2005
Section: METRO
Text Word Count: 1185
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:41PM
Saw her at the candidates forum at South Lakes. She talked alot but didn't say anything.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:44PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair has a history of challenges. There was an
> article in the Washington Post a couple of years
> ago that highlighted teacher's struggles to teach
> some of the students. I was too cheap to purchase
> the article to cut and paste here, but here is the
> first paragraph and reference info.
>
> "This year, McNair is the only high-poverty
> Fairfax school that didn't meet No Child standards
> for three consecutive years and must now allow
> children to transfer to other schools and provide
> private tutoring. High turnover is only one
> challenge at McNair, where 40 percent of children
> are learning English and 40 percent are from low-
> income families..."
>
> Maria Glod
> Date: Aug 28, 2005
> Section: METRO
> Text Word Count: 1185
Explain exactly how this population could help balance the socio-economic characteristics of South Lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair has a history of challenges. There was an
> article in the Washington Post a couple of years
> ago that highlighted teacher's struggles to teach
> some of the students. I was too cheap to purchase
> the article to cut and paste here, but here is the
> first paragraph and reference info.
>
> "This year, McNair is the only high-poverty
> Fairfax school that didn't meet No Child standards
> for three consecutive years and must now allow
> children to transfer to other schools and provide
> private tutoring. High turnover is only one
> challenge at McNair, where 40 percent of children
> are learning English and 40 percent are from low-
> income families..."
>
> Maria Glod
> Date: Aug 28, 2005
> Section: METRO
> Text Word Count: 1185
Explain exactly how this population could help balance the socio-economic characteristics of South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:44PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
>
> > get out and vote, clean house and then there
> maybe
> > a chance
>
> "A chance" depends on your perspective. I want
> boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for
> Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want
> no redistricting?
Christine supports more than that. She would support looking at alternatives including "the why isn't Langley considered." this is what you were asking about. Stop-rd wants no redistricting because they don't think the approach has been smart--one unsmart thing is your Langley question.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
>
> > get out and vote, clean house and then there
> maybe
> > a chance
>
> "A chance" depends on your perspective. I want
> boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for
> Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want
> no redistricting?
Christine supports more than that. She would support looking at alternatives including "the why isn't Langley considered." this is what you were asking about. Stop-rd wants no redistricting because they don't think the approach has been smart--one unsmart thing is your Langley question.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 01:45PM
See Hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her
> neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are
> dangerous.
batty seems to be a qual for the job.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her
> neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are
> dangerous.
batty seems to be a qual for the job.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:13PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
Stop-rd wants no redistricting
> because they don't think the approach has been
> smart--one unsmart thing is your Langley question.
From the stoprd.org website:
____________________________________________________
Our Position
StopRD.org is a newly formed grassroots coalition of concerned citizens from communities in Fairfax County who believe the School Board's redistricting practices hurt students, families and neighborhoods. StopRD.org is calling for a moratorium on redistricting — we want it to stop.
StopRd.org members live in neighborhoods attending a variety of high schools. Our reactions to the many issues raised by a forced change of high schools are mixed. But we all stand together on this one issue — we firmly support a county-wide moratorium on high school redistricting.
We believe that the end does not justify the means. The school district's attempt to resolve perceived problems in current enrollment statistics does not justify the divisiveness and anguish caused by redistricting. Social networks and family routines would change. Citizens would lose the integrity of choice of where to live, based in most cases on its affiliation with the neighborhood's public schools.
We oppose the undemocratic procedures proposed by the Fairfax County School Board in this process, including the delay of public hearings regarding the current western Fairfax County high schools boundary study until after FCPS School Board elections. We also oppose any FCPS School Board consideration of an appointed boundary planning committee, as this would insulate Board members from the very people they represent.
Don't let FCPS disrupt the lives of thousands of citizens through forced redistricting of community high schools. Join with us to let FCPS administrators and School Board members know we do not support their redistricting initiatives.
Support a Moratorium on School Redistricting!
Sign Our Petition To Show Your Support Now!
_________________________________________________________
Here is the language from their website. Where does it state that they want "smart" redistricting? It is clear they want NO redistricting.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
Stop-rd wants no redistricting
> because they don't think the approach has been
> smart--one unsmart thing is your Langley question.
From the stoprd.org website:
____________________________________________________
Our Position
StopRD.org is a newly formed grassroots coalition of concerned citizens from communities in Fairfax County who believe the School Board's redistricting practices hurt students, families and neighborhoods. StopRD.org is calling for a moratorium on redistricting — we want it to stop.
StopRd.org members live in neighborhoods attending a variety of high schools. Our reactions to the many issues raised by a forced change of high schools are mixed. But we all stand together on this one issue — we firmly support a county-wide moratorium on high school redistricting.
We believe that the end does not justify the means. The school district's attempt to resolve perceived problems in current enrollment statistics does not justify the divisiveness and anguish caused by redistricting. Social networks and family routines would change. Citizens would lose the integrity of choice of where to live, based in most cases on its affiliation with the neighborhood's public schools.
We oppose the undemocratic procedures proposed by the Fairfax County School Board in this process, including the delay of public hearings regarding the current western Fairfax County high schools boundary study until after FCPS School Board elections. We also oppose any FCPS School Board consideration of an appointed boundary planning committee, as this would insulate Board members from the very people they represent.
Don't let FCPS disrupt the lives of thousands of citizens through forced redistricting of community high schools. Join with us to let FCPS administrators and School Board members know we do not support their redistricting initiatives.
Support a Moratorium on School Redistricting!
Sign Our Petition To Show Your Support Now!
_________________________________________________________
Here is the language from their website. Where does it state that they want "smart" redistricting? It is clear they want NO redistricting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:19PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fox Mill and Crossfield initiated the meetings,
> not Board Members or South Lakes.
>
> According to reports, both were hostile at best.
Word, I attended one of those meetings and it was anything but hostile.
The format was basically Fox Mill parents asking questions of Bruce Butler and a panel of South Lakes students. My impression was that at least on the surface the parents were very open-minded and impressed with the student speakers. There was only one hostile questioner in the whole pack.
Not sure where you got your information, but I was strongly under the impression (based on first-hand discussions at PTSA meetings) that Bruce Butler initiated the meetings.
Your comments cement for me the close-minded attitude you have to the entire process. You and your allies have no trouble telling South Lakes that we should just roll over and gladly accept McNair, but don't seem to like it when we reach into your community for consensus or at least for a fair hearing.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fox Mill and Crossfield initiated the meetings,
> not Board Members or South Lakes.
>
> According to reports, both were hostile at best.
Word, I attended one of those meetings and it was anything but hostile.
The format was basically Fox Mill parents asking questions of Bruce Butler and a panel of South Lakes students. My impression was that at least on the surface the parents were very open-minded and impressed with the student speakers. There was only one hostile questioner in the whole pack.
Not sure where you got your information, but I was strongly under the impression (based on first-hand discussions at PTSA meetings) that Bruce Butler initiated the meetings.
Your comments cement for me the close-minded attitude you have to the entire process. You and your allies have no trouble telling South Lakes that we should just roll over and gladly accept McNair, but don't seem to like it when we reach into your community for consensus or at least for a fair hearing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:20PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > I have a map of affordable rental apartments in
> > the county and it shows a disproportinate
> number
> > of units in the McNair area south of the toll
> > road. There is a disparity betwenen what you
> say
> > and what i see on the map. Why would this be?
>
> I've actually priced apartments in that area for
> potential employees. What map are you looking at?
I have the most recent (2006-7) official FFX map of Affordable Rental Housing. It shows hundreds of units south of the toll road.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > I have a map of affordable rental apartments in
> > the county and it shows a disproportinate
> number
> > of units in the McNair area south of the toll
> > road. There is a disparity betwenen what you
> say
> > and what i see on the map. Why would this be?
>
> I've actually priced apartments in that area for
> potential employees. What map are you looking at?
I have the most recent (2006-7) official FFX map of Affordable Rental Housing. It shows hundreds of units south of the toll road.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:22PM
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=12444&paper=65&cat=104
Gibson said the crazy-quilt pattern of school attendance along Route 7 owes to 30 years of unrelated boundary decisions.
“You are asking us to make sense of a set of boundaries that were formed over 30 years by other people, some of whom are [now] dead,” Gibson said.
“Our [School Board policy on boundaries] lists about 10 different factors in no particular order,” Gibson said.
“Since when do you want consistency from a public body?”
Gibson said the crazy-quilt pattern of school attendance along Route 7 owes to 30 years of unrelated boundary decisions.
“You are asking us to make sense of a set of boundaries that were formed over 30 years by other people, some of whom are [now] dead,” Gibson said.
“Our [School Board policy on boundaries] lists about 10 different factors in no particular order,” Gibson said.
“Since when do you want consistency from a public body?”
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 02:43PM
From what I heard and know, Christine is for a more open process in redistricting. She has not promised no redistricting. See her blogs at
http://blogs.arakelian.com/christine/
http://blogs.arakelian.com/christine/
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:17PM
>
> We believe that the end does not justify the
> means. The school district's attempt to resolve
> perceived problems in current enrollment
> statistics does not justify the divisiveness and
> anguish caused by redistricting. Social networks
> and family routines would change. Citizens would
> lose the integrity of choice of where to live,
> based in most cases on its affiliation with the
> neighborhood's public schools.
>
> We oppose the undemocratic procedures proposed by
> the Fairfax County School Board in this process,
> including the delay of public hearings regarding
> the current western Fairfax County high schools
> boundary study until after FCPS School Board
> elections. We also oppose any FCPS School Board
> consideration of an appointed boundary planning
> committee, as this would insulate Board members
> from the very people they represent.
>
> Don't let FCPS disrupt the lives of thousands of
> citizens through forced redistricting of community
> high schools. >
> __________________________________________________
> _______
>
>
> Here is the language from their website. Where
> does it state that they want "smart"
> redistricting? It is clear they want NO
> redistricting.
I don't know "smart" seems to be the best way to sum the 2 paragraphs left above.
Rather than just reading everyone's website and taking things at face value talk to the folks at Stop-rd, you would understand more of why they are asking for a MORATORIUM (its because the current study ain't smart). MORATORIUM means "delay of any action." BUT, you have to STOP the current study in order to have a MORATORIUM.
> We believe that the end does not justify the
> means. The school district's attempt to resolve
> perceived problems in current enrollment
> statistics does not justify the divisiveness and
> anguish caused by redistricting. Social networks
> and family routines would change. Citizens would
> lose the integrity of choice of where to live,
> based in most cases on its affiliation with the
> neighborhood's public schools.
>
> We oppose the undemocratic procedures proposed by
> the Fairfax County School Board in this process,
> including the delay of public hearings regarding
> the current western Fairfax County high schools
> boundary study until after FCPS School Board
> elections. We also oppose any FCPS School Board
> consideration of an appointed boundary planning
> committee, as this would insulate Board members
> from the very people they represent.
>
> Don't let FCPS disrupt the lives of thousands of
> citizens through forced redistricting of community
> high schools. >
> __________________________________________________
> _______
>
>
> Here is the language from their website. Where
> does it state that they want "smart"
> redistricting? It is clear they want NO
> redistricting.
I don't know "smart" seems to be the best way to sum the 2 paragraphs left above.
Rather than just reading everyone's website and taking things at face value talk to the folks at Stop-rd, you would understand more of why they are asking for a MORATORIUM (its because the current study ain't smart). MORATORIUM means "delay of any action." BUT, you have to STOP the current study in order to have a MORATORIUM.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:23PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> I have the most recent (2006-7) official FFX map
> of Affordable Rental Housing. It shows hundreds
> of units south of the toll road.
There are no projects like Stonegate south of the Toll Road.
There may be ADUs scattered among the market rate units but they would be no more than 10% of the market rate units. The ADU ordinance requires the developers of all residential projects of 50 dwelling units or more to set aside 10% of the project's units for the ADU program.
The market rate rents certainly would take the balance of those apartmetns out of my definition of "affordable."
This is curious.
More Later
> I have the most recent (2006-7) official FFX map
> of Affordable Rental Housing. It shows hundreds
> of units south of the toll road.
There are no projects like Stonegate south of the Toll Road.
There may be ADUs scattered among the market rate units but they would be no more than 10% of the market rate units. The ADU ordinance requires the developers of all residential projects of 50 dwelling units or more to set aside 10% of the project's units for the ADU program.
The market rate rents certainly would take the balance of those apartmetns out of my definition of "affordable."
This is curious.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:26PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saw her at the candidates forum at South Lakes.
> She talked alot but didn't say anything.
And stu did?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saw her at the candidates forum at South Lakes.
> She talked alot but didn't say anything.
And stu did?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:27PM
McNair is not any easy puzzle to solve. McNair will soon move some of their kids to the new Coppermine school who's boundaries will be decided in 08-09. Yeh, another study to look forward to, after we pick up the pieces of this one. Where will the Coppermine kids end up?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:29PM
More,
Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of unaffordables? this is what others are referring to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are wrong.
Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of unaffordables? this is what others are referring to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are wrong.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:30PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Explain exactly how this population could help
> balance the socio-economic characteristics of
> South Lakes.
Is it Old Timer or Alzheimers? ;-)
The part of McNair with the kids described in that article ALREADY goes to HHS. The part of McNair south of the Toll Road is all recent (expensive) construction. Again, the demo for all of McNair is not the demo for the part of McNair that goes to Westfield.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Explain exactly how this population could help
> balance the socio-economic characteristics of
> South Lakes.
Is it Old Timer or Alzheimers? ;-)
The part of McNair with the kids described in that article ALREADY goes to HHS. The part of McNair south of the Toll Road is all recent (expensive) construction. Again, the demo for all of McNair is not the demo for the part of McNair that goes to Westfield.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Westfield Parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:37PM
Westfield is not over-crowded. They received a 24-room expansion and a 100 seat cafeteria expansion in 2006. They will be well-under capacity next year. Our district has been involved in 5 boundary changes in 9 years -- ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. They moved us from Oakton in 2000 and we will not be redistricted to ANOTHER high school to correct their miscalculations and experimentation. Jane Strauss needs to review the CIP that FCPS provided before she makes inappropriate and inaccurate remarks - which by the way are a justification for the way Langley was conveniently left out of this study.
FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:37PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More,
>
> Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of
> unaffordables? this is what others are referring
> to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are
> wrong.
Its brand new and the rents are over $1100 a month. You'd need an income of not less than $47,000 a year to qualify. That's teachers pay.
I'm sure Rick Hausler at KSI, the developer, would like to know that his neighbors think of his project as comparable to Alabama and Stonegate.
There may be ADUs in there but ask what the rent is at Stonegate by comparison.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 03:48PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> More,
>
> Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of
> unaffordables? this is what others are referring
> to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are
> wrong.
Its brand new and the rents are over $1100 a month. You'd need an income of not less than $47,000 a year to qualify. That's teachers pay.
I'm sure Rick Hausler at KSI, the developer, would like to know that his neighbors think of his project as comparable to Alabama and Stonegate.
There may be ADUs in there but ask what the rent is at Stonegate by comparison.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 03:48PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:45PM
Thomas,
Jefferson Commons is south of the toll road and has 286 units.
BTW, this map shows very little affordable housing north of the toll road in Herndon, so obviously, this map isn't telling the whole story.
Jefferson Commons is south of the toll road and has 286 units.
BTW, this map shows very little affordable housing north of the toll road in Herndon, so obviously, this map isn't telling the whole story.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:52PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Jefferson Commons is south of the toll road and
> has 286 units.
>
> BTW, this map shows very little affordable housing
> north of the toll road in Herndon, so obviously,
> this map isn't telling the whole story.
Those are market rate apartments also. This map must be of market rate apartments.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Jefferson Commons is south of the toll road and
> has 286 units.
>
> BTW, this map shows very little affordable housing
> north of the toll road in Herndon, so obviously,
> this map isn't telling the whole story.
Those are market rate apartments also. This map must be of market rate apartments.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:54PM
Westfield Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield
> than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
Other than Neen I can't think of anyone advocating Floris to SL. Is Chantilly closer to Floris than Westfield? It looks that way on a map.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield
> than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
Other than Neen I can't think of anyone advocating Floris to SL. Is Chantilly closer to Floris than Westfield? It looks that way on a map.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: October 29, 2007 03:56PM
Westfield Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield is not over-crowded. They received a
> 24-room expansion and a 100 seat ...Jane Strauss needs to review the
> CIP that FCPS provided before she makes
> inappropriate and inaccurate remarks - which by
> the way are a justification for the way Langley
> was conveniently left out of this study.
>
> FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield
> than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
but Jane and Stu PROMISED...she's got people so close to Herndon HS I don't know if they would get a bus. Parents shop at the Sterling/Herndon Giant and others hang out at North Point in Reston. Kids get exception to ride so they can pick up the TJ bus at Herndon. Others are bussed to Kilmer past and through the South Lakes attendance area. StopRD is for a moratorium not perpetual immunity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield is not over-crowded. They received a
> 24-room expansion and a 100 seat ...Jane Strauss needs to review the
> CIP that FCPS provided before she makes
> inappropriate and inaccurate remarks - which by
> the way are a justification for the way Langley
> was conveniently left out of this study.
>
> FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield
> than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
but Jane and Stu PROMISED...she's got people so close to Herndon HS I don't know if they would get a bus. Parents shop at the Sterling/Herndon Giant and others hang out at North Point in Reston. Kids get exception to ride so they can pick up the TJ bus at Herndon. Others are bussed to Kilmer past and through the South Lakes attendance area. StopRD is for a moratorium not perpetual immunity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 04:05PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > More,
> >
> > Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of
> > unaffordables? this is what others are
> referring
> > to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are
> > wrong.
>
> Its brand new and the rents are over $1100 a
> month. You'd need an income of not less than
> $47,000 a year to qualify. That's teachers pay.
>
> I'm sure Rick Hausler at KSI, the developer, would
> like to know that his neighbors think of his
> project as comparable to Alabama and Stonegate.
>
> There may be ADUs in there but ask what the rent
> is at Stonegate by comparison.
So, I think more of the problem at McNair is the number of non-english speakers regardless of where they live, affordable or not. And you can expect in a community of apartments, townhouses, condos, the turn-over is more frequent. McNair's fluctuating enrollment numbers should testify to the difficulty in teaching in a school with revolving doors, compounded by the fact that lots of kids show up with poor English speaking skills. It is not unlike Bailey's Elementary, except someone seems to have cared about Bailey's.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > More,
> >
> > Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of
> > unaffordables? this is what others are
> referring
> > to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are
> > wrong.
>
> Its brand new and the rents are over $1100 a
> month. You'd need an income of not less than
> $47,000 a year to qualify. That's teachers pay.
>
> I'm sure Rick Hausler at KSI, the developer, would
> like to know that his neighbors think of his
> project as comparable to Alabama and Stonegate.
>
> There may be ADUs in there but ask what the rent
> is at Stonegate by comparison.
So, I think more of the problem at McNair is the number of non-english speakers regardless of where they live, affordable or not. And you can expect in a community of apartments, townhouses, condos, the turn-over is more frequent. McNair's fluctuating enrollment numbers should testify to the difficulty in teaching in a school with revolving doors, compounded by the fact that lots of kids show up with poor English speaking skills. It is not unlike Bailey's Elementary, except someone seems to have cared about Bailey's.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 04:06PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield
> > than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
>
> Other than Neen I can't think of anyone advocating
> Floris to SL. Is Chantilly closer to Floris than
> Westfield? It looks that way on a map.
Chantilly is closer to Floris and so is Herndon.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FYI the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield
> > than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).
>
> Other than Neen I can't think of anyone advocating
> Floris to SL. Is Chantilly closer to Floris than
> Westfield? It looks that way on a map.
Chantilly is closer to Floris and so is Herndon.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 04:07PM
>
> but Jane and Stu PROMISED...she's got people so
> close to Herndon HS I don't know if they would get
> a bus. Parents shop at the Sterling/Herndon Giant
> and others hang out at North Point in Reston.
> Kids get exception to ride so they can pick up the
> TJ bus at Herndon. Others are bussed to Kilmer
> past and through the South Lakes attendance area.
> StopRD is for a moratorium not perpetual immunity.
I don't understand your point here.
> but Jane and Stu PROMISED...she's got people so
> close to Herndon HS I don't know if they would get
> a bus. Parents shop at the Sterling/Herndon Giant
> and others hang out at North Point in Reston.
> Kids get exception to ride so they can pick up the
> TJ bus at Herndon. Others are bussed to Kilmer
> past and through the South Lakes attendance area.
> StopRD is for a moratorium not perpetual immunity.
I don't understand your point here.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 04:15PM
To be sure that we don't run our of things to talk about...
Old Timer and others, let's ponder this...suppose the county was only dealing with the "under-enrollment" of South Lakes (as it claims). Suppose you take Westfield and Chantilly off the table for this discussion. How would you tackle a plan to up the enrollment at South Lakes? Would including Langley be smart?
You could swap to discuss the "over-enrollment" of Westfield or Chantilly.
Break the boundary study "purposes" into single issues to tackle and I think folks could be far more logical, creative and fair, than where the county has us headed.
Old Timer and others, let's ponder this...suppose the county was only dealing with the "under-enrollment" of South Lakes (as it claims). Suppose you take Westfield and Chantilly off the table for this discussion. How would you tackle a plan to up the enrollment at South Lakes? Would including Langley be smart?
You could swap to discuss the "over-enrollment" of Westfield or Chantilly.
Break the boundary study "purposes" into single issues to tackle and I think folks could be far more logical, creative and fair, than where the county has us headed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 04:16PM
oops meant "run out of" not "run our of"
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 04:30PM
Cricket, it's clear we will never run out of things to talk about. We are all involved community members and want the best for our schools. I think any school would be blessed to have parents like those posting here. I agree that the discussions should be logical. I also agree that having Langley in mix would be helpful. I invite you to try to get Langley on the table and wish you good luck. Since they aren't currently in the mix, we have to move forward as things now stand. Unfortunately, we can't afford the luxury of waiting for something that likely will not happen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 04:37PM
non english speakers at mcnair...
take a stroll down alabama near the ball fields and you'll see where they're located
take a stroll down alabama near the ball fields and you'll see where they're located
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 05:01PM
Thomas, the map I have is labelled "County of FFX Affordable Rental Housing" 2005-6. It has dots with labels indicating whether the dot refers to:
Public Housing
Fairfax County Rental Program
Supportive Housing
Privately Owned Federally Assisted Rental Units
Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental Units
Rental Affordable Dwelling Units
Proffered Rental Affordable Units
Jefferson is of the Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental Units
variety. These include Housing Trust Fund Low Income Housing Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond and/or VHDA Bond Financed.
Not sure that helps.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 05:09PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Public Housing
Fairfax County Rental Program
Supportive Housing
Privately Owned Federally Assisted Rental Units
Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental Units
Rental Affordable Dwelling Units
Proffered Rental Affordable Units
Jefferson is of the Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental Units
variety. These include Housing Trust Fund Low Income Housing Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond and/or VHDA Bond Financed.
Not sure that helps.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 05:09PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer aka Alzheimers
()
Date: October 29, 2007 05:18PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be sure that we don't run our of things to talk
> about...
>
> Old Timer and others, let's ponder this...suppose
> the county was only dealing with the
> "under-enrollment" of South Lakes (as it claims).
I didn't realize that was the "claim," but then again it could be the alzheimers kicking in.
Do you mean the letter to homeowners that says - "The goal of the boundary is two-fold to to address programmatic issues from over or under enrollment and to make efficient use of available school capacity?"
> Suppose you take Westfield and Chantilly off the
> table for this discussion. How would you tackle a
> plan to up the enrollment at South Lakes? Would
> including Langley be smart?
I already said so - see my post at 12:54pm today.
> You could swap to discuss the "over-enrollment" of
> Westfield or Chantilly.
>
> Break the boundary study "purposes" into single
> issues to tackle and I think folks could be far
> more logical, creative and fair, than where the
> county has us headed.
Are you referring to the four considerations from the school board work session?
1) projected school enrollment and capacity
2) distribution of program and resources
3) socio-economic characteristics of school populations
4) contiguous school attendance areas
Regardless of what a specific school board member said - there are four criteria. Unfortunately, they can't be discretely discussed and tackled. Moving population will/can affect the socio-economic characteristics of the school populations.
If it was easy - there wouldn't be this forum and all the discussion.
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be sure that we don't run our of things to talk
> about...
>
> Old Timer and others, let's ponder this...suppose
> the county was only dealing with the
> "under-enrollment" of South Lakes (as it claims).
I didn't realize that was the "claim," but then again it could be the alzheimers kicking in.
Do you mean the letter to homeowners that says - "The goal of the boundary is two-fold to to address programmatic issues from over or under enrollment and to make efficient use of available school capacity?"
> Suppose you take Westfield and Chantilly off the
> table for this discussion. How would you tackle a
> plan to up the enrollment at South Lakes? Would
> including Langley be smart?
I already said so - see my post at 12:54pm today.
> You could swap to discuss the "over-enrollment" of
> Westfield or Chantilly.
>
> Break the boundary study "purposes" into single
> issues to tackle and I think folks could be far
> more logical, creative and fair, than where the
> county has us headed.
Are you referring to the four considerations from the school board work session?
1) projected school enrollment and capacity
2) distribution of program and resources
3) socio-economic characteristics of school populations
4) contiguous school attendance areas
Regardless of what a specific school board member said - there are four criteria. Unfortunately, they can't be discretely discussed and tackled. Moving population will/can affect the socio-economic characteristics of the school populations.
If it was easy - there wouldn't be this forum and all the discussion.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 05:36PM
Old Timer aka Alzheimers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > the county was only dealing with the
> > "under-enrollment" of South Lakes (as it
> claims).
>
> I didn't realize that was the "claim," but then
> again it could be the alzheimers kicking in.
>
> Do you mean the letter to homeowners that says -
> "The goal of the boundary is two-fold to to
> address programmatic issues from over or under
> enrollment and to make efficient use of available
> school capacity?"
> >
> > Break the boundary study "purposes" into single
> > issues to tackle and I think folks could be far
> > more logical, creative and fair, than where the
> > county has us headed.
>
I was really referring to the "purposes" that Jane Strauss laid out in her memo that was posted earlier.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > the county was only dealing with the
> > "under-enrollment" of South Lakes (as it
> claims).
>
> I didn't realize that was the "claim," but then
> again it could be the alzheimers kicking in.
>
> Do you mean the letter to homeowners that says -
> "The goal of the boundary is two-fold to to
> address programmatic issues from over or under
> enrollment and to make efficient use of available
> school capacity?"
> >
> > Break the boundary study "purposes" into single
> > issues to tackle and I think folks could be far
> > more logical, creative and fair, than where the
> > county has us headed.
>
I was really referring to the "purposes" that Jane Strauss laid out in her memo that was posted earlier.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 05:37PM
>
> If it was easy - there wouldn't be this forum and
> all the discussion.
And then we would have no fun.
> If it was easy - there wouldn't be this forum and
> all the discussion.
And then we would have no fun.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 29, 2007 05:39PM
I cannot overestimate just how much rancor the school redistricting is causing in my neighborhood. I think the South Lakes supporters have a point - many of the concerns are overblown - especially given, as Stu Gibson freely relates, the anticipated influx of good students to South Lakes - the whole gravamen of his cause - will improve the academic statistics at South Lakes. But at the same time the to be transferors are being asked to attend a school that has a number of different aspects (some negative) to it, and they can continually position themselves as less than well served unless they are treated well.
But I think a few points stand out,in many respects guided by the terms of this debate, which despite some negative and non-probative posts. is still on the whole helpful.
First, irrespective of one's views on the IB vs. AP issue, if the prior post is accurate - i.e., students can pupil place if they evince a desire to engage in an AP program, the South Lakes transfer will fail. I can say that nearly everyone in my neighborhood would opt for pupil placement at Oakton under the guise of no AP program. So again, as much as it pains those who dislike looking at schools from a marketplace perspective - that is - they do get judged as to how well they serve their customers - without a vibrant AP program taught by experienced teachers (and some of the recent troubles with qualification problems in AP curricula augur for experienced teachers) - pupil placement requests will be high - very much so.
Second, irrespective of one's positive or negative views of SLHS, there is little doubt in my mind that South Lakes and its supporters would benefit from a marketplace orientation and make a concerted push to compete for students as if there were not redistricting mandate. This is not as easy as it sounds - there is a status quo set up for the existing population and marketing, so to speak, to a group of students that are not even there yet (although I am persuaded redistricting is a foregone conclusion) is not an easy thing to do - running a school these days is a reactive exercise and being strategic and proactive - in ways other than spiffing up a building, is not something to which education bureaucrats are used.
Third - let's get practical - any solution to South Lakes' declining fortunes - that is what they are - let's not beat around it - can't result in another school meeting the same fate. And let's face it - take the North Reston crowd away from Herndon and they will lose a significant slug of quality students - and begin (likely) a significant decline. It would give all sorts of rather obvious vibes about the role that power and money can play in redistricting (duh), and make the school board look more like social engineering bureaucrats than they already do.
But I think a few points stand out,in many respects guided by the terms of this debate, which despite some negative and non-probative posts. is still on the whole helpful.
First, irrespective of one's views on the IB vs. AP issue, if the prior post is accurate - i.e., students can pupil place if they evince a desire to engage in an AP program, the South Lakes transfer will fail. I can say that nearly everyone in my neighborhood would opt for pupil placement at Oakton under the guise of no AP program. So again, as much as it pains those who dislike looking at schools from a marketplace perspective - that is - they do get judged as to how well they serve their customers - without a vibrant AP program taught by experienced teachers (and some of the recent troubles with qualification problems in AP curricula augur for experienced teachers) - pupil placement requests will be high - very much so.
Second, irrespective of one's positive or negative views of SLHS, there is little doubt in my mind that South Lakes and its supporters would benefit from a marketplace orientation and make a concerted push to compete for students as if there were not redistricting mandate. This is not as easy as it sounds - there is a status quo set up for the existing population and marketing, so to speak, to a group of students that are not even there yet (although I am persuaded redistricting is a foregone conclusion) is not an easy thing to do - running a school these days is a reactive exercise and being strategic and proactive - in ways other than spiffing up a building, is not something to which education bureaucrats are used.
Third - let's get practical - any solution to South Lakes' declining fortunes - that is what they are - let's not beat around it - can't result in another school meeting the same fate. And let's face it - take the North Reston crowd away from Herndon and they will lose a significant slug of quality students - and begin (likely) a significant decline. It would give all sorts of rather obvious vibes about the role that power and money can play in redistricting (duh), and make the school board look more like social engineering bureaucrats than they already do.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:02PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, the map I have is labelled "County of FFX
> Affordable Rental Housing" 2005-6. It has dots
> with labels indicating whether the dot refers to:
>
> Public Housing
> Fairfax County Rental Program
> Supportive Housing
> Privately Owned Federally Assisted Rental Units
> Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental
> Units
> Rental Affordable Dwelling Units
> Proffered Rental Affordable Units
> Jefferson is of the Privately Owned Non-Federally
> Assisted Rental Units
> variety. These include Housing Trust Fund Low
> Income Housing Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond
> and/or VHDA Bond Financed.
>
> Not sure that helps.
I think that means market rate rents but await correction from someone more familiar with this nomenclature.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, the map I have is labelled "County of FFX
> Affordable Rental Housing" 2005-6. It has dots
> with labels indicating whether the dot refers to:
>
> Public Housing
> Fairfax County Rental Program
> Supportive Housing
> Privately Owned Federally Assisted Rental Units
> Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental
> Units
> Rental Affordable Dwelling Units
> Proffered Rental Affordable Units
> Jefferson is of the Privately Owned Non-Federally
> Assisted Rental Units
> variety. These include Housing Trust Fund Low
> Income Housing Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond
> and/or VHDA Bond Financed.
>
> Not sure that helps.
I think that means market rate rents but await correction from someone more familiar with this nomenclature.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:19PM
Cricket Wrote:
> So, I think more of the problem at McNair is the
> number of non-english speakers regardless of where
> they live, affordable or not. And you can expect
> in a community of apartments, townhouses, condos,
> the turn-over is more frequent. McNair's
> fluctuating enrollment numbers should testify to
> the difficulty in teaching in a school with
> revolving doors, compounded by the fact that lots
> of kids show up with poor English speaking skills.
> It is not unlike Bailey's Elementary, except
> someone seems to have cared about Bailey's.
I think that like Old Timer aka Alzheimer, you are confusing the portion of McNair that lives north of the Toll Road which already goes to Herndon with the portion that lives south of the Toll Road . . .
and demonstrating a fair amount of ignorance and more than a little snobbery.
On average, nationally, single family detached (SFD) homes turn over once every four years. Washington rates are sightly faster. Townhouses don't turn over much faster than SFDs. Condo turn over at a slightly faster rate. Apartments turn over every two to three years. None of these rates of turn-over are significantly different from a capital improvement program perspective.
Also the "transient" apartment renters tend not to have any kids on average.
Again, the portion of McNair south of the Toll Road looks a lot like Tysons Corner. Multi-family and towns mixed in with a lot of commercial office and retail. Mostly white, mostly middle class.
Take a ride. Take a walk. Open your eyes, your mind and your Gringe-sized heart.
More Later
> So, I think more of the problem at McNair is the
> number of non-english speakers regardless of where
> they live, affordable or not. And you can expect
> in a community of apartments, townhouses, condos,
> the turn-over is more frequent. McNair's
> fluctuating enrollment numbers should testify to
> the difficulty in teaching in a school with
> revolving doors, compounded by the fact that lots
> of kids show up with poor English speaking skills.
> It is not unlike Bailey's Elementary, except
> someone seems to have cared about Bailey's.
I think that like Old Timer aka Alzheimer, you are confusing the portion of McNair that lives north of the Toll Road which already goes to Herndon with the portion that lives south of the Toll Road . . .
and demonstrating a fair amount of ignorance and more than a little snobbery.
On average, nationally, single family detached (SFD) homes turn over once every four years. Washington rates are sightly faster. Townhouses don't turn over much faster than SFDs. Condo turn over at a slightly faster rate. Apartments turn over every two to three years. None of these rates of turn-over are significantly different from a capital improvement program perspective.
Also the "transient" apartment renters tend not to have any kids on average.
Again, the portion of McNair south of the Toll Road looks a lot like Tysons Corner. Multi-family and towns mixed in with a lot of commercial office and retail. Mostly white, mostly middle class.
Take a ride. Take a walk. Open your eyes, your mind and your Gringe-sized heart.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:20PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > More,
> >
> > Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of
> > unaffordables? this is what others are
> referring
> > to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are
> > wrong.
>
> Its brand new and the rents are over $1100 a
> month. You'd need an income of not less than
> $47,000 a year to qualify. That's teachers pay.
>
> I'm sure Rick Hausler at KSI, the developer, would
> like to know that his neighbors think of his
> project as comparable to Alabama and Stonegate.
>
> There may be ADUs in there but ask what the rent
> is at Stonegate by comparison.
Ok, I was wrong, I meant The Fields of Herndon
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > More,
> >
> > Stratford Crossing, is that on your list of
> > unaffordables? this is what others are
> referring
> > to as "affordable housing", but maybe we are
> > wrong.
>
> Its brand new and the rents are over $1100 a
> month. You'd need an income of not less than
> $47,000 a year to qualify. That's teachers pay.
>
> I'm sure Rick Hausler at KSI, the developer, would
> like to know that his neighbors think of his
> project as comparable to Alabama and Stonegate.
>
> There may be ADUs in there but ask what the rent
> is at Stonegate by comparison.
Ok, I was wrong, I meant The Fields of Herndon
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:29PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > So, I think more of the problem at McNair is
> the
> > number of non-english speakers regardless of
> where
> > they live, affordable or not. And you can
> expect
> > in a community of apartments, townhouses,
> condos,
> > the turn-over is more frequent. McNair's
> > fluctuating enrollment numbers should testify
> to
> > the difficulty in teaching in a school with
> > revolving doors, compounded by the fact that
> lots
> > of kids show up with poor English speaking
> skills.
> > It is not unlike Bailey's Elementary, except
> > someone seems to have cared about Bailey's.
>
> I think that like Old Timer aka Alzheimer, you are
> confusing the portion of McNair that lives north
> of the Toll Road which already goes to Herndon
> with the portion that lives south of the Toll Road
> . . .
>
> and demonstrating a fair amount of ignorance and
> more than a little snobbery.
>
> On average, nationally, single family detached
> (SFD) homes turn over once every four years.
> Washington rates are sightly faster. Townhouses
> don't turn over much faster than SFDs. Condo turn
> over at a slightly faster rate. Apartments turn
> over every two to three years. None of these
> rates of turn-over are significantly different
> from a capital improvement program perspective.
>
> Also the "transient" apartment renters tend not to
> have any kids on average.
>
> Again, the portion of McNair south of the Toll
> Road looks a lot like Tysons Corner. Multi-family
> and towns mixed in with a lot of commercial office
> and retail. Mostly white, mostly middle class.
>
> Take a ride. Take a walk. Open your eyes, your
> mind and your Gringe-sized heart.
"non english speakers at mcnair...
take a stroll down alabama near the ball fields and you'll see where they're located"
I think it is Grinch, but anyway...
a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > So, I think more of the problem at McNair is
> the
> > number of non-english speakers regardless of
> where
> > they live, affordable or not. And you can
> expect
> > in a community of apartments, townhouses,
> condos,
> > the turn-over is more frequent. McNair's
> > fluctuating enrollment numbers should testify
> to
> > the difficulty in teaching in a school with
> > revolving doors, compounded by the fact that
> lots
> > of kids show up with poor English speaking
> skills.
> > It is not unlike Bailey's Elementary, except
> > someone seems to have cared about Bailey's.
>
> I think that like Old Timer aka Alzheimer, you are
> confusing the portion of McNair that lives north
> of the Toll Road which already goes to Herndon
> with the portion that lives south of the Toll Road
> . . .
>
> and demonstrating a fair amount of ignorance and
> more than a little snobbery.
>
> On average, nationally, single family detached
> (SFD) homes turn over once every four years.
> Washington rates are sightly faster. Townhouses
> don't turn over much faster than SFDs. Condo turn
> over at a slightly faster rate. Apartments turn
> over every two to three years. None of these
> rates of turn-over are significantly different
> from a capital improvement program perspective.
>
> Also the "transient" apartment renters tend not to
> have any kids on average.
>
> Again, the portion of McNair south of the Toll
> Road looks a lot like Tysons Corner. Multi-family
> and towns mixed in with a lot of commercial office
> and retail. Mostly white, mostly middle class.
>
> Take a ride. Take a walk. Open your eyes, your
> mind and your Gringe-sized heart.
"non english speakers at mcnair...
take a stroll down alabama near the ball fields and you'll see where they're located"
I think it is Grinch, but anyway...
a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:29PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas, the map I have is labelled "County of
> FFX
> > Affordable Rental Housing" 2005-6. It has dots
> > with labels indicating whether the dot refers
> to:
> >
> > Public Housing
> > Fairfax County Rental Program
> > Supportive Housing
> > Privately Owned Federally Assisted Rental Units
> > Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental
> > Units
> > Rental Affordable Dwelling Units
> > Proffered Rental Affordable Units
>
> > Jefferson is of the Privately Owned
> Non-Federally
> > Assisted Rental Units
> > variety. These include Housing Trust Fund Low
> > Income Housing Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond
> > and/or VHDA Bond Financed.
> >
> > Not sure that helps.
>
> I think that means market rate rents but await
> correction from someone more familiar with this
> nomenclature.
Thomas, if this is market rate rents, they would not be on the affordable housing map. It could be that the rents are market, but are subsidized by the county?
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas, the map I have is labelled "County of
> FFX
> > Affordable Rental Housing" 2005-6. It has dots
> > with labels indicating whether the dot refers
> to:
> >
> > Public Housing
> > Fairfax County Rental Program
> > Supportive Housing
> > Privately Owned Federally Assisted Rental Units
> > Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental
> > Units
> > Rental Affordable Dwelling Units
> > Proffered Rental Affordable Units
>
> > Jefferson is of the Privately Owned
> Non-Federally
> > Assisted Rental Units
> > variety. These include Housing Trust Fund Low
> > Income Housing Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond
> > and/or VHDA Bond Financed.
> >
> > Not sure that helps.
>
> I think that means market rate rents but await
> correction from someone more familiar with this
> nomenclature.
Thomas, if this is market rate rents, they would not be on the affordable housing map. It could be that the rents are market, but are subsidized by the county?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:33PM
Also, there is another development--Dulles center Apt. Homes, that is the upper western tip of Westfield, west of Centreville and just beneath the toll road There are 272 units of Privately Owned Non-Federally assisted REntal Units.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:38PM
>
> I think that like Old Timer aka Alzheimer, you are
> confusing the portion of McNair that lives north
> of the Toll Road which already goes to Herndon
> with the portion that lives south of the Toll Road
> . . .
>
> and demonstrating a fair amount of ignorance and
> more than a little snobbery.
>
>
> Again, the portion of McNair south of the Toll
> Road looks a lot like Tysons Corner. Multi-family
> and towns mixed in with a lot of commercial office
> and retail. Mostly white, mostly middle class.
I don't think I am confused. I drive and walk through the McNair area everyday. I, at least knew where the boundaries were, from the get-go. So I can't be that ignorant. How often are you in the area or in the school? Do you understand why McNair continues to not pass muster? How snobbish is it to blame McNair's challenges on the Alabama Avenue crowd?
> I think that like Old Timer aka Alzheimer, you are
> confusing the portion of McNair that lives north
> of the Toll Road which already goes to Herndon
> with the portion that lives south of the Toll Road
> . . .
>
> and demonstrating a fair amount of ignorance and
> more than a little snobbery.
>
>
> Again, the portion of McNair south of the Toll
> Road looks a lot like Tysons Corner. Multi-family
> and towns mixed in with a lot of commercial office
> and retail. Mostly white, mostly middle class.
I don't think I am confused. I drive and walk through the McNair area everyday. I, at least knew where the boundaries were, from the get-go. So I can't be that ignorant. How often are you in the area or in the school? Do you understand why McNair continues to not pass muster? How snobbish is it to blame McNair's challenges on the Alabama Avenue crowd?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 06:42PM
Also interesting --there is no affordable housing near Alabama Ave shown on the Affordable Housing map.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 07:04PM
The bigger issue is here is the zoning of all of this land west of Centreville Rd south of the toll rd for High Density Development. They are slamming in apartment units left and right.
A quick google of "coppermine" and "fairfax county public schools" yeields some what's going on with the developers.
If all this goes through we'll be redrawing lines again soon. Excuse my french but these units don't attact the high end students, which is why there is a keen interest in McNair on this board.
The schools closest to this development will be expected to carry the brunt of the burden because of proximity to the area. In my opinion, Fairfax County is looking to take a dive with no room left for single family homes and this type of growth.
A quick google of "coppermine" and "fairfax county public schools" yeields some what's going on with the developers.
If all this goes through we'll be redrawing lines again soon. Excuse my french but these units don't attact the high end students, which is why there is a keen interest in McNair on this board.
The schools closest to this development will be expected to carry the brunt of the burden because of proximity to the area. In my opinion, Fairfax County is looking to take a dive with no room left for single family homes and this type of growth.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 08:50PM
Despite all of the rhetoric, there is something wrong with the current boundaries when the distance for someone to go to a given school is as follows:
South Lakes: 3.2 miles
Chantilly: 5.6 miles
Herndon: 6.1 miles
Oakton: 8.9 miles
Westfield: 9.1 miles
Where does this child go to school? Oakton!
Another example:
South Lakes: 4.2 miles
Chantilly: 4.4 miles
Herndon: 4.9 miles
Westfield: 7.2 miles
Oakton: 12.1 miles
Where does this child go to school? Oakton!
South Lakes: 3.2 miles
Chantilly: 5.6 miles
Herndon: 6.1 miles
Oakton: 8.9 miles
Westfield: 9.1 miles
Where does this child go to school? Oakton!
Another example:
South Lakes: 4.2 miles
Chantilly: 4.4 miles
Herndon: 4.9 miles
Westfield: 7.2 miles
Oakton: 12.1 miles
Where does this child go to school? Oakton!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another concerned parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:26PM
Oakton is less than two miles from each of Madison and Fairfax high schools. Fairfax high school is less than two miles from Woodson. If you lived between OAkton and Fairfax, you would have four high schools within three miles. That make the districts for all of these high schools extend further than they would if the schools were not on top of each other. Not ideal, but it is what it is, and to populate those schools, you need to include some kids who are physically closer to another school.
There are many more places in the west part of the county with no high schools within five miles, so long trips are fact of life no matter which school kids are assigned to.
There are many more places in the west part of the county with no high schools within five miles, so long trips are fact of life no matter which school kids are assigned to.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
LOLA Espanola
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:40PM
Any housing is more affordable if you have 2-3 families sharing the rent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:41PM
Another concerned parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton is less than two miles from each of Madison
> and Fairfax high schools. Fairfax high school is
> less than two miles from Woodson. If you lived
> between OAkton and Fairfax, you would have four
> high schools within three miles. That make the
> districts for all of these high schools extend
> further than they would if the schools were not on
> top of each other. Not ideal, but it is what it
> is, and to populate those schools, you need to
> include some kids who are physically closer to
> another school.
>
> There are many more places in the west part of the
> county with no high schools within five miles, so
> long trips are fact of life no matter which school
> kids are assigned to.
But why does it make sense to send a student to a slightly overenrolled school 12 miles away when there two underenrolled school less than 5 miles away?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton is less than two miles from each of Madison
> and Fairfax high schools. Fairfax high school is
> less than two miles from Woodson. If you lived
> between OAkton and Fairfax, you would have four
> high schools within three miles. That make the
> districts for all of these high schools extend
> further than they would if the schools were not on
> top of each other. Not ideal, but it is what it
> is, and to populate those schools, you need to
> include some kids who are physically closer to
> another school.
>
> There are many more places in the west part of the
> county with no high schools within five miles, so
> long trips are fact of life no matter which school
> kids are assigned to.
But why does it make sense to send a student to a slightly overenrolled school 12 miles away when there two underenrolled school less than 5 miles away?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
The same parent again
()
Date: October 29, 2007 09:59PM
The enrollment differences at Oakton and Herndon are very small compared to the size increments you make when redistricting, since that affects whole neighborhoods with hundreds of students.
The South Lakes underenrollment is a different subject. Surveys of local residents show that South Lakes is not the first choice of parents for various reasons. While each person will see things differently, many parents in this area voice concerns related to programs not offered at South Lakes, and recent academic performance compared with other local schools. Thus it has been politically unpopular to redistrict students into South Lakes. However, that may be a secondary concern now if South Lakes has too many students in at risk areas for NCLB.
The South Lakes underenrollment is a different subject. Surveys of local residents show that South Lakes is not the first choice of parents for various reasons. While each person will see things differently, many parents in this area voice concerns related to programs not offered at South Lakes, and recent academic performance compared with other local schools. Thus it has been politically unpopular to redistrict students into South Lakes. However, that may be a secondary concern now if South Lakes has too many students in at risk areas for NCLB.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:11PM
Cricket Wrote:
>
> a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
Cricket is correct. There are subsidized units in the Coppermine area, close to the school and they are contributing to the difficulties the school is having. For as long as I have raised children in Fairfax County schools there have been problems with transient housing and kids being moved in and out. I think transient housing most definitely includes families or at least single parents.
>
> a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
Cricket is correct. There are subsidized units in the Coppermine area, close to the school and they are contributing to the difficulties the school is having. For as long as I have raised children in Fairfax County schools there have been problems with transient housing and kids being moved in and out. I think transient housing most definitely includes families or at least single parents.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:18PM
I'm waving the BS flag on myself.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:22PM
After reading all of the comments above regarding McNair students and at-risk students in general, I have to ask why anyone is suggesting on this site is suggesting sending that school to South Lakes? McNair is currently at Westfield, with not a lot of detriment to Westfield, if one looks at the numbers.
Also, I hear a lot of railing on this site about Langley and its insular boundaries. Has anyone stopped to ask why Oakton's boundary seems to avoid all the "problem" areas and be limited primarily to single-family homes? It would be nice if those on this site who are mad about Langley would acknowledge the irony in their own positions.
Also, I hear a lot of railing on this site about Langley and its insular boundaries. Has anyone stopped to ask why Oakton's boundary seems to avoid all the "problem" areas and be limited primarily to single-family homes? It would be nice if those on this site who are mad about Langley would acknowledge the irony in their own positions.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:33PM
Westfield is going to be reduced, by removing McNair. We've been over this already.
If it doesn't go to South Lakes it goes to Herndon and they woud have to give up Aldrin... be prepared for a fight. But then why involve other schools when the probelm can be solved directly between the one that is overpopulated and the one that is underpopulated... the path of least resistance.
Why is OK for Westfield or Herndon to have McNair and not South Lakes? As I have read here, South Lakes SATs are on a par with the other schools? Or is that not the case?
Oakton is part of the study, you should know that by now. Langley is not. And acutally there are alot of apartments and townhouses in the Oakton district. Blake Lane / Jermantown Rd area see for yourself.
If it doesn't go to South Lakes it goes to Herndon and they woud have to give up Aldrin... be prepared for a fight. But then why involve other schools when the probelm can be solved directly between the one that is overpopulated and the one that is underpopulated... the path of least resistance.
Why is OK for Westfield or Herndon to have McNair and not South Lakes? As I have read here, South Lakes SATs are on a par with the other schools? Or is that not the case?
Oakton is part of the study, you should know that by now. Langley is not. And acutally there are alot of apartments and townhouses in the Oakton district. Blake Lane / Jermantown Rd area see for yourself.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
The other concerned parent
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:46PM
This site www.schooldigger.com has some nice comparison charts showing enrollment history (e.g. decline at South Lakes accelerating in recent years, vs stable size at other schools) and test scores (failure % on SOLs in the 10-20% range at South Lakes vs. 0% at Oakton and Madison). Plus lots of other good information.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:49PM
Word, that doesn't answer my question as to why Oakton has been so insulated.
Not one SLposter on this site has suggested that South Lakes SAT scores are 'on par' or that SL would not benefit from and/or needs more middle class students. We are slowly coming back from years of neglect by this School system. The last thing we need is to accept more underprivileged students.
Why are you so closed to accepting McNair at your school? If the AP gives more college credits than IB, as your side has stated, then why would you advocate for low-income kids to have to bear the burden of risking few credits from IB? Why would you not advocate for them to attend an AP school, where they might get an economic boost in the long run.
Word said, "If it doesn't go to South Lakes it goes to Herndon and they woud have to give up Aldrin... be prepared for a fight. But then why involve other schools when the probelm can be solved directly between the one that is overpopulated and the one that is underpopulated... the path of least resistance."
It is not a given that McNair goes to South Lakes or Herndon, much as you might like that to be the outcome. The path of least resistance is exactly what this School Board has thought about South Lakes for far too many years. We are not going to take this sitting down and we most decidedly are prepared for a fight. Perhaps you are not used to getting one from us.
Incidentally, the townhouses along Blake lane are a step up from, for example, those on Alabama Avenue. Not all townhouses are 'bad,' you know.
Sorry to be so smarmy, but your post was very aggravating.
Not one SLposter on this site has suggested that South Lakes SAT scores are 'on par' or that SL would not benefit from and/or needs more middle class students. We are slowly coming back from years of neglect by this School system. The last thing we need is to accept more underprivileged students.
Why are you so closed to accepting McNair at your school? If the AP gives more college credits than IB, as your side has stated, then why would you advocate for low-income kids to have to bear the burden of risking few credits from IB? Why would you not advocate for them to attend an AP school, where they might get an economic boost in the long run.
Word said, "If it doesn't go to South Lakes it goes to Herndon and they woud have to give up Aldrin... be prepared for a fight. But then why involve other schools when the probelm can be solved directly between the one that is overpopulated and the one that is underpopulated... the path of least resistance."
It is not a given that McNair goes to South Lakes or Herndon, much as you might like that to be the outcome. The path of least resistance is exactly what this School Board has thought about South Lakes for far too many years. We are not going to take this sitting down and we most decidedly are prepared for a fight. Perhaps you are not used to getting one from us.
Incidentally, the townhouses along Blake lane are a step up from, for example, those on Alabama Avenue. Not all townhouses are 'bad,' you know.
Sorry to be so smarmy, but your post was very aggravating.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:54PM
The other concerned parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This site www.schooldigger.com has some nice
> comparison charts showing enrollment history (e.g.
> decline at South Lakes accelerating in recent
> years, vs stable size at other schools) and test
> scores (failure % on SOLs in the 10-20% range at
> South Lakes vs. 0% at Oakton and Madison). Plus
> lots of other good information.
And why do you suppose the SOL scores are what they are. Have you looked at the numbers for free and reduced lunch at each school.
A fair comparison would be to look at SOL scores for the same kinds of students at each school. For example, how do middle class kids at South Lakes compare to middle class kids at Oakton? If South Lakes is currently doing a good job with their middle class students with regards to say, SOLs, why would it not do so with middle class students transferring in?
-------------------------------------------------------
> This site www.schooldigger.com has some nice
> comparison charts showing enrollment history (e.g.
> decline at South Lakes accelerating in recent
> years, vs stable size at other schools) and test
> scores (failure % on SOLs in the 10-20% range at
> South Lakes vs. 0% at Oakton and Madison). Plus
> lots of other good information.
And why do you suppose the SOL scores are what they are. Have you looked at the numbers for free and reduced lunch at each school.
A fair comparison would be to look at SOL scores for the same kinds of students at each school. For example, how do middle class kids at South Lakes compare to middle class kids at Oakton? If South Lakes is currently doing a good job with their middle class students with regards to say, SOLs, why would it not do so with middle class students transferring in?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 29, 2007 10:58PM
SLV - Do you have amnesia??? go read the last few pages.
Ask SLPP about the SAT scores.
McNair cannot go to Oakton unless your going to create two Islands. The Islands will go away.
Alabama townhouses - these people already go to Herndon and are not in play.
All of this has already been discussed. You need some new material.
Ask SLPP about the SAT scores.
McNair cannot go to Oakton unless your going to create two Islands. The Islands will go away.
Alabama townhouses - these people already go to Herndon and are not in play.
All of this has already been discussed. You need some new material.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:12PM
Word, I was using the Alabama townhouses as a basis for comparison, not implying that they are in the SL pyramid. Sorry you could not see that.
Just because you don't like what I say does not mean I am going away. I have just as much right as you to post my opinions, and in my opinion, Oakton has a fairly insulated boundary that protects it from 'most' townhouses and apartments. One might argue that Oakton has students that should have been in South Lakes years ago, particularly when Oakton was adding trailors right and left.
As far as rehashing goes, you perhaps need to stop using the 'island' argument. It is not written in stone that no islands will be created. In fact, that may be the only solution to this study.
It's funny how you don't mind making proposals that negatively affect other schools, but when one is suggested that might affect yours you cry foul or 'island.'
Just because you don't like what I say does not mean I am going away. I have just as much right as you to post my opinions, and in my opinion, Oakton has a fairly insulated boundary that protects it from 'most' townhouses and apartments. One might argue that Oakton has students that should have been in South Lakes years ago, particularly when Oakton was adding trailors right and left.
As far as rehashing goes, you perhaps need to stop using the 'island' argument. It is not written in stone that no islands will be created. In fact, that may be the only solution to this study.
It's funny how you don't mind making proposals that negatively affect other schools, but when one is suggested that might affect yours you cry foul or 'island.'
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:26PM
Word,
I just did a search on the last 3 pages and could find no reference to SAT scores. I did find many instances of anti-redistricting parents using the 'no island' argument. Perhaps you need new material.
Anti-redistricting posters on this site have told me that:
-South Lakes is bad.
-IB is bad.
-AP is good.
-There will be no islands - Stu said, Janey said, etc, ad nauseum.
-Leave our schools alone.
-This is all about social engineering.
-Market forces are good.
-Just leave us out of it.
-We paid taxes to live in this school district.
When you moved here did you not realize that you are part a large and dymanic school system? Was there some kind of guarantee at your real estate settlement that your school district would remain static?
I just did a search on the last 3 pages and could find no reference to SAT scores. I did find many instances of anti-redistricting parents using the 'no island' argument. Perhaps you need new material.
Anti-redistricting posters on this site have told me that:
-South Lakes is bad.
-IB is bad.
-AP is good.
-There will be no islands - Stu said, Janey said, etc, ad nauseum.
-Leave our schools alone.
-This is all about social engineering.
-Market forces are good.
-Just leave us out of it.
-We paid taxes to live in this school district.
When you moved here did you not realize that you are part a large and dymanic school system? Was there some kind of guarantee at your real estate settlement that your school district would remain static?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 29, 2007 11:56PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, if this is market rate rents, they would
> not be on the affordable housing map. It could be
> that the rents are market, but are subsidized by
> the county?
What agency issues this map?
I'm not aware of a county subsidy that isn't a pass through of a federal program like Section 8 housing.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, if this is market rate rents, they would
> not be on the affordable housing map. It could be
> that the rents are market, but are subsidized by
> the county?
What agency issues this map?
I'm not aware of a county subsidy that isn't a pass through of a federal program like Section 8 housing.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 30, 2007 12:02AM
SLV
- on the SAT scores contact South Lakes Pyramid Parent
- Second section: no/no/yes/yes/yes/yes/yes/yes/we all do
- yes/no
- on the SAT scores contact South Lakes Pyramid Parent
- Second section: no/no/yes/yes/yes/yes/yes/yes/we all do
- yes/no
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 12:04AM
LOLA Espanola Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any housing is more affordable if you have 2-3
> families sharing the rent.
Most of these situations happen at single family detached units or townhouses own by an absentee landlord not in apartment complexes. Ask the Zoning Administrators office.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any housing is more affordable if you have 2-3
> families sharing the rent.
Most of these situations happen at single family detached units or townhouses own by an absentee landlord not in apartment complexes. Ask the Zoning Administrators office.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 12:13AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, there is another development--Dulles center
> Apt. Homes, that is the upper western tip of
> Westfield, west of Centreville and just beneath
> the toll road There are 272 units of Privately
> Owned Non-Federally assisted REntal Units.
This is definitely market rate housing. Very recent construction. Rent $1300/month. You'd need to make $58,000 to qualify.
Are we going down the whole list?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, there is another development--Dulles center
> Apt. Homes, that is the upper western tip of
> Westfield, west of Centreville and just beneath
> the toll road There are 272 units of Privately
> Owned Non-Federally assisted REntal Units.
This is definitely market rate housing. Very recent construction. Rent $1300/month. You'd need to make $58,000 to qualify.
Are we going down the whole list?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 12:21AM
Cricket Wrote:
> Ok, I was wrong, I meant The Fields of Herndon
Brand new construction. You have to make $35-40,000 to live here. Again a Kettler project.
Whats the point, you object to any apartment house in your high school's attendance area.
> Ok, I was wrong, I meant The Fields of Herndon
Brand new construction. You have to make $35-40,000 to live here. Again a Kettler project.
Whats the point, you object to any apartment house in your high school's attendance area.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 12:45AM
Cricket Wrote:
> a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
Well it is true.
This is delusional. All of these streets have newly constructed housing that's less than 10 years old managed by regional developers and investors who would go broke if they rent to the poor and illiterate. The land cost and the cost of construction drive the rent levels to heights that few day labors and the like can afford.
The public housing that wraps around the baseball field on Alabama is 40 years old and looks it inside and out. They aren't part of McNair. I think they go to Herndon Elementary.
The townhouses that are on either side of Alabama and are in McNair are 35 years old.
Compare the cars in the parking lots between Alabama and Coopermine. No they're not all Mercedes on Coopermine but there aren't alot with mismatching quarter panels and rust outs.
The poor always seek out the older housing stock because older housing is almost always cheaper.
Is your operating assumption that all apartmetnt dwellers are objectionable?
The point I'm trying get you to understand is that adding the part of McNair south of the Toll Road now going to Westfield to either SL or HHS will not diminish the demographoics of either SL or HHS, might improve them and could easily be assign to either high school
More Later
> a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
Well it is true.
This is delusional. All of these streets have newly constructed housing that's less than 10 years old managed by regional developers and investors who would go broke if they rent to the poor and illiterate. The land cost and the cost of construction drive the rent levels to heights that few day labors and the like can afford.
The public housing that wraps around the baseball field on Alabama is 40 years old and looks it inside and out. They aren't part of McNair. I think they go to Herndon Elementary.
The townhouses that are on either side of Alabama and are in McNair are 35 years old.
Compare the cars in the parking lots between Alabama and Coopermine. No they're not all Mercedes on Coopermine but there aren't alot with mismatching quarter panels and rust outs.
The poor always seek out the older housing stock because older housing is almost always cheaper.
Is your operating assumption that all apartmetnt dwellers are objectionable?
The point I'm trying get you to understand is that adding the part of McNair south of the Toll Road now going to Westfield to either SL or HHS will not diminish the demographoics of either SL or HHS, might improve them and could easily be assign to either high school
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 12:57AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> >
> > a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> > Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> > same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> > the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> > McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
>
> Cricket is correct. There are subsidized units in
> the Coppermine area, close to the school and they
> are contributing to the difficulties the school is
> having. For as long as I have raised children in
> Fairfax County schools there have been problems
> with transient housing and kids being moved in and
> out. I think transient housing most definitely
> includes families or at least single parents.
No Cricket is dead wrong. The vast majority of those multi-family unit are expensive and aimed at singles and couples without kids. Not a very large percentage of those units will ever have children. Average number of kids per multi-family housing unit just don't support this presumption. The School Board has this information and their ratios are over-estimating the amount of children generated by all housing types based on actual enrollments.
I guess neither Cricket and SLVerify ever lived in an apartment and their kids are all moving directly into a sfd as soon as they graduate from college.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> >
> > a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> > Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> > same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> > the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> > McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
>
> Cricket is correct. There are subsidized units in
> the Coppermine area, close to the school and they
> are contributing to the difficulties the school is
> having. For as long as I have raised children in
> Fairfax County schools there have been problems
> with transient housing and kids being moved in and
> out. I think transient housing most definitely
> includes families or at least single parents.
No Cricket is dead wrong. The vast majority of those multi-family unit are expensive and aimed at singles and couples without kids. Not a very large percentage of those units will ever have children. Average number of kids per multi-family housing unit just don't support this presumption. The School Board has this information and their ratios are over-estimating the amount of children generated by all housing types based on actual enrollments.
I guess neither Cricket and SLVerify ever lived in an apartment and their kids are all moving directly into a sfd as soon as they graduate from college.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 12:58AM
Thomas More said:
>>>It's like they are dutifully waiting for Stu to tell them the outcome when he figures it all out politically.<<<
You don't think he already has this figured out? A year ago Janie Straus told Langley parents that they would not be part of this boundary change. She also explained why some schools would have to send students to South Lakes, even those that were not over enrolled. The deals were all done then. Stu knew then who would be sent to South Lakes. He knew too that he would not allow a magnet program, or any other solution to the problem of under enrollment at South Lakes. The deal has been done, and part of the solution is McNair to South Lakes. Sending McNair and Floris is the path of least resistance and requires no other school board members to be involved.
>>>It's like they are dutifully waiting for Stu to tell them the outcome when he figures it all out politically.<<<
You don't think he already has this figured out? A year ago Janie Straus told Langley parents that they would not be part of this boundary change. She also explained why some schools would have to send students to South Lakes, even those that were not over enrolled. The deals were all done then. Stu knew then who would be sent to South Lakes. He knew too that he would not allow a magnet program, or any other solution to the problem of under enrollment at South Lakes. The deal has been done, and part of the solution is McNair to South Lakes. Sending McNair and Floris is the path of least resistance and requires no other school board members to be involved.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:05AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sending McNair and Floris is the
> path of least resistance and requires no other
> school board members to be involved.
Isn't most of Floris in Sully? Chantilly is closer. Floris is almost exclusively sfd meaniing politically active. Can't see those parents accepting the longer bus ride readily.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sending McNair and Floris is the
> path of least resistance and requires no other
> school board members to be involved.
Isn't most of Floris in Sully? Chantilly is closer. Floris is almost exclusively sfd meaniing politically active. Can't see those parents accepting the longer bus ride readily.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:09AM
Stu's argument that the school board regs don't allow a change is just silly. Who the heck writes the school board regs? They do! Just as they wrote the regs, they can re write the regs, at any moment they choose. They can also pass an exception to this reg in this instance. HELLOOOOO............they write their own rules! They can do whatever the heck they want to do!
Langley isn't in the boundary study because Stu agreed to not put it in. I know that's rather obvious. Why did he make that deal with Janie? I don't know, but I can guess. In exchange for allowing Herndon to be in the study, Stu agreed to not put any Langley students into the study.
Each school board member decides what happens at their schools. Another school board member would never get involved, or vote against, what Stu wants in his district, UNLESS it effected students in their own district. To include Herndon in the study, Stu had to get Janie's permission. She obviously agreed to throwing Herndon under the bus, but held Langley harmless. Kathy agreed to let students in Westfield and Chantilly be involved, and Crossfield. That's how it works, each school board member represents their district and has say over what happens in their district. Other school board members stay out of it. If you think about it, it makes sense to do it that way.
Langley isn't in the boundary study because Stu agreed to not put it in. I know that's rather obvious. Why did he make that deal with Janie? I don't know, but I can guess. In exchange for allowing Herndon to be in the study, Stu agreed to not put any Langley students into the study.
Each school board member decides what happens at their schools. Another school board member would never get involved, or vote against, what Stu wants in his district, UNLESS it effected students in their own district. To include Herndon in the study, Stu had to get Janie's permission. She obviously agreed to throwing Herndon under the bus, but held Langley harmless. Kathy agreed to let students in Westfield and Chantilly be involved, and Crossfield. That's how it works, each school board member represents their district and has say over what happens in their district. Other school board members stay out of it. If you think about it, it makes sense to do it that way.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:16AM
Christine is not the least bit batty and she certainly has more than one issue. Her biggest issue is improving the lowest performing schools in the district. She worries that these children on the bottom have no advocates. Stu certainly hasn't done anything to help these children. Services for kids who are both gifted and learning disabled is another issue. Services for autistic children and advocating for parents who can't get the help that their children need, is very big on her agenda. Exploring alternative to redistricting is another issue. Magnet programs that attract students is something she would like to consider. She would like ALL of the communities involved BEFORE the school board begins these boundary studies.
Christine wants to improve things at South Lakes, and all the low performing schools in Reston, something that Stu hasn't done in TWELVE YEARS. Why would anyone want to re elect him? He's done nothing to help Reston schools.
Christine wants to improve things at South Lakes, and all the low performing schools in Reston, something that Stu hasn't done in TWELVE YEARS. Why would anyone want to re elect him? He's done nothing to help Reston schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:23AM
Stu talks about the crazy boundaries back in 2002. It's now 2007, what has he done about those crazy boundaries in the last 5 years?
How many years has McNair been in trouble? What has Stu done to help McNair and Dogwood and the other low performing schools? Other parts of the county have schools with the SAME demographics and several of those elementary schools have really turned things around. Why hasn't Stu done that in his district schools? Why are poor black schools in Richmond and Newport News, and 8 other poor districts, doing better than the low income schools in Stu's district? It can be done, there's proof of it all over the state and right in this county, so why hasn't Stu done it for his schools?
How many years has McNair been in trouble? What has Stu done to help McNair and Dogwood and the other low performing schools? Other parts of the county have schools with the SAME demographics and several of those elementary schools have really turned things around. Why hasn't Stu done that in his district schools? Why are poor black schools in Richmond and Newport News, and 8 other poor districts, doing better than the low income schools in Stu's district? It can be done, there's proof of it all over the state and right in this county, so why hasn't Stu done it for his schools?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:27AM
>>>the Floris district is CLOSER to Westfield than South Lakes (6 miles vs. 7 miles).<<<
I suggest that you not use that argument in the community meetings. It is not compelling.
The easiest thing for Stu to do is to send McNair and Floris to South Lakes. I suspect that the community groups will agree.
I suggest that you not use that argument in the community meetings. It is not compelling.
The easiest thing for Stu to do is to send McNair and Floris to South Lakes. I suspect that the community groups will agree.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:33AM
>>>Floris is almost exclusively sfd meaniing politically active. Can't see those parents accepting the longer bus ride readily.<<<
A bus ride that is farther by ONE MILE? Not a compelling argument. Floris parents objected to being booted from Oakton, it didn't work. Is Floris as organized as Herndon PTA? And Crossfield and Fox Mill?
If Stu and Kathy are re elected, there is absolutely nothing to prevent them from sending McNair and Floris to South Lakes. It upsets the fewest people and the fewest neighborhoods. If people at Floris really don't want to go to South Lakes they need to vote against Stu and Kathy. Otherwise, they are the most likely to be sent. There's no reason for Stu and Kathy to do anything else.
A bus ride that is farther by ONE MILE? Not a compelling argument. Floris parents objected to being booted from Oakton, it didn't work. Is Floris as organized as Herndon PTA? And Crossfield and Fox Mill?
If Stu and Kathy are re elected, there is absolutely nothing to prevent them from sending McNair and Floris to South Lakes. It upsets the fewest people and the fewest neighborhoods. If people at Floris really don't want to go to South Lakes they need to vote against Stu and Kathy. Otherwise, they are the most likely to be sent. There's no reason for Stu and Kathy to do anything else.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:38AM
Thomas, I am not advocating that Floris go to South Lakes. But I am a realist, and it would seem that McNair and Floris to South Lakes would meet with the least resistance.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:46AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Floris is almost exclusively sfd meaniing
> politically active. Can't see those parents
> accepting the longer bus ride readily.<<<
>
> A bus ride that is farther by ONE MILE? Not a
> compelling argument.
It is when Chantilly is much closer than either and part of the study area.
Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for Floris at Chantilly.
And as I understand it most of Floris participates in CYA youth activities.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 01:48AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Floris is almost exclusively sfd meaniing
> politically active. Can't see those parents
> accepting the longer bus ride readily.<<<
>
> A bus ride that is farther by ONE MILE? Not a
> compelling argument.
It is when Chantilly is much closer than either and part of the study area.
Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for Floris at Chantilly.
And as I understand it most of Floris participates in CYA youth activities.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 01:48AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:54AM
>>>Fairfax County is looking to take a dive with no room left for single family homes and this type of growth.<<<
Tell it to Gerry Connelly. He, and the Supervisor of that district, control the zoning. If we don't like the growth then we need to throw the bums out of office.
Tell it to Gerry Connelly. He, and the Supervisor of that district, control the zoning. If we don't like the growth then we need to throw the bums out of office.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:03AM
>>>We are slowly coming back from years of neglect by this School system.<<<<
Can anyone tell me why voters in Reston vote for Stu Gibson? This neglect has gone on his watch over the last 12 years. He stood by and did nothing to stop the decline of Reston schools.
Can anyone tell me why voters in Reston vote for Stu Gibson? This neglect has gone on his watch over the last 12 years. He stood by and did nothing to stop the decline of Reston schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:09AM
>>>Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for Floris at Chantilly.<<<<
Navy is quite a hike to Oakton, but it works for me, and probably for them too.
If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair? Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton, when considering the distances?
Navy is quite a hike to Oakton, but it works for me, and probably for them too.
If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair? Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton, when considering the distances?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:22AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anyone tell me why voters in Reston vote for
> Stu Gibson? This neglect has gone on his watch
> over the last 12 years. He stood by and did
> nothing to stop the decline of Reston schools.
At least the Dems didn't endorse him in 2003 but the alternative wasn't viable. Can't beat an incumbent with a nobody.
Christine is impressive. Just wish she had run in 2003. Stu has the Dem endorsement this year. So she will have to overcome the coattail effect from the rest of the ticket benefiting Stu.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anyone tell me why voters in Reston vote for
> Stu Gibson? This neglect has gone on his watch
> over the last 12 years. He stood by and did
> nothing to stop the decline of Reston schools.
At least the Dems didn't endorse him in 2003 but the alternative wasn't viable. Can't beat an incumbent with a nobody.
Christine is impressive. Just wish she had run in 2003. Stu has the Dem endorsement this year. So she will have to overcome the coattail effect from the rest of the ticket benefiting Stu.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:27AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for
> Floris at Chantilly.<<<<
>
> Navy is quite a hike to Oakton, but it works for
> me, and probably for them too.
>
> If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go
> to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go
> to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair?
> Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or
> Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton,
> when considering the distances?
the part of Mcnair now going to Westfield goes to Herndon and Aldrin goes to SL.
Or fox Mill goes to SL
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for
> Floris at Chantilly.<<<<
>
> Navy is quite a hike to Oakton, but it works for
> me, and probably for them too.
>
> If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go
> to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go
> to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair?
> Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or
> Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton,
> when considering the distances?
the part of Mcnair now going to Westfield goes to Herndon and Aldrin goes to SL.
Or fox Mill goes to SL
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:00AM
Thomas, the democrats certainly did endorse Stu in 2003. They've endorsed him each time he ran. In 2003 he ran against a Arthur Purvis who was not endorsed by republicans. In 1999 Stu ran against a very nice black man, Tom Wilkins, an endorsed republican.
>>>Gibson, who is Democrat-endorsed.<<<
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34905-2003Oct29?language=printer
>>>Gibson, who is Democrat-endorsed.<<<
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34905-2003Oct29?language=printer
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:08AM
>>>the part of Mcnair now going to Westfield goes to Herndon and Aldrin goes to SL<<
That won't work for Herndon. If Aldrin is taken out, then another higher income school must replace them or Herndon's stats go down the drain. Plus, Aldrin is so small, it won't come close to enough students. But McNair and Aldrin to South Lakes would work, numbers wise, but would leave Herndon with too little enrollment.
Would it be viable to split Floris between Chantilly and Herndon?
I agree on Christine. She's a great candidate. But Restonians are so wedded to democrats, it will be difficult for her to prevail. If Restonians cared about the schools and their kids more than they cared about partisanship they'd vote for Christine. No one can argue that Stu has done anything for kids in Reston or Vienna, especially low income students.
That won't work for Herndon. If Aldrin is taken out, then another higher income school must replace them or Herndon's stats go down the drain. Plus, Aldrin is so small, it won't come close to enough students. But McNair and Aldrin to South Lakes would work, numbers wise, but would leave Herndon with too little enrollment.
Would it be viable to split Floris between Chantilly and Herndon?
I agree on Christine. She's a great candidate. But Restonians are so wedded to democrats, it will be difficult for her to prevail. If Restonians cared about the schools and their kids more than they cared about partisanship they'd vote for Christine. No one can argue that Stu has done anything for kids in Reston or Vienna, especially low income students.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
LAR
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:17AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for
> Floris at Chantilly.<<<<
>
> Navy is quite a hike to Oakton, but it works for
> me, and probably for them too.
>
> If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go
> to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go
> to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair?
> Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or
> Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton,
> when considering the distances?
Half of Navy already goes to Oakton....the remainder go to Franklin Middle and then on to Chanitlly. Navy is split amongst two pyramid's aready.
We are a Navy family .... Our neighborhood was changed from Oakton to Chantilly a number of years ago. There was a petition in the neighborhood to change due to the driving distance......I think. Before we had children in the school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for
> Floris at Chantilly.<<<<
>
> Navy is quite a hike to Oakton, but it works for
> me, and probably for them too.
>
> If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go
> to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go
> to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair?
> Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or
> Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton,
> when considering the distances?
Half of Navy already goes to Oakton....the remainder go to Franklin Middle and then on to Chanitlly. Navy is split amongst two pyramid's aready.
We are a Navy family .... Our neighborhood was changed from Oakton to Chantilly a number of years ago. There was a petition in the neighborhood to change due to the driving distance......I think. Before we had children in the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 07:17AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > Ok, I was wrong, I meant The Fields of Herndon
>
> Brand new construction. You have to make
> $35-40,000 to live here. Again a Kettler project.
>
> Whats the point, you object to any apartment house
> in your high school's attendance area.
Big Leap, by you. But no, I think that we ALL, including you, were trying to figure out where the 40% non-English speaking population at McNair lived.
As a matter of fact, large apt. complexes, a few condo communities and a trailer park or two attend our high school. And, we are fighting to stay.
No matter how diligent your condo/apartment buddies are, there are still many multiple families living w/in one unit in many of the county's condos. That is the only way some of these people can afford to live and serve our community. Sometimes what you are looking at on paper or screen, is not real life.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 07:34AM by Cricket.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > Ok, I was wrong, I meant The Fields of Herndon
>
> Brand new construction. You have to make
> $35-40,000 to live here. Again a Kettler project.
>
> Whats the point, you object to any apartment house
> in your high school's attendance area.
Big Leap, by you. But no, I think that we ALL, including you, were trying to figure out where the 40% non-English speaking population at McNair lived.
As a matter of fact, large apt. complexes, a few condo communities and a trailer park or two attend our high school. And, we are fighting to stay.
No matter how diligent your condo/apartment buddies are, there are still many multiple families living w/in one unit in many of the county's condos. That is the only way some of these people can afford to live and serve our community. Sometimes what you are looking at on paper or screen, is not real life.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 07:34AM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 07:31AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>Floris is almost exclusively sfd meaniing
> > politically active. Can't see those parents
> > accepting the longer bus ride readily.<<<
> >
> > A bus ride that is farther by ONE MILE? Not a
> > compelling argument.
>
> It is when Chantilly is much closer than either
> and part of the study area.
> Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for
> Floris at Chantilly.
>
> And as I understand it most of Floris participates
> in CYA youth activities.
Moving Navy out of Chantilly does not make room for Floris. Only half or less of the Navy population goes to Chantilly. Those people don't want to go, they will fight it and have proofed successful in the past.
Neen wrote: If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair? Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton, when considering the distances?
If you listen to More, McNair is the good school that goes to SL.
And More wrote: "No Cricket is dead wrong. The vast majority of those multi-family unit are expensive and aimed at singles and couples without kids. Not a very large percentage of those units will ever have children. Average number of kids per multi-family housing unit just don't support this presumption. The School Board has this information and their ratios are over-estimating the amount of children generated by all housing types based on actual enrollments."
And I suppose it is these "singles and couples" with large disposable incomes that keep McNair from performing well. Until, we see you actually strolling through the McNair neighborhood and wandering the halls of the schools, your argument goes on deaf ears.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 07:33AM by Cricket.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>Floris is almost exclusively sfd meaniing
> > politically active. Can't see those parents
> > accepting the longer bus ride readily.<<<
> >
> > A bus ride that is farther by ONE MILE? Not a
> > compelling argument.
>
> It is when Chantilly is much closer than either
> and part of the study area.
> Bump all of Navy to Oakton and there's room for
> Floris at Chantilly.
>
> And as I understand it most of Floris participates
> in CYA youth activities.
Moving Navy out of Chantilly does not make room for Floris. Only half or less of the Navy population goes to Chantilly. Those people don't want to go, they will fight it and have proofed successful in the past.
Neen wrote: If Floris goes to Chantilly, which good schools go to South Lakes? I'm assuming that McNair will go to South Lakes. What schools will balance McNair? Does it make sense to take Crossfield and/or Foxmill out of Oakton and send Navy to Oakton, when considering the distances?
If you listen to More, McNair is the good school that goes to SL.
And More wrote: "No Cricket is dead wrong. The vast majority of those multi-family unit are expensive and aimed at singles and couples without kids. Not a very large percentage of those units will ever have children. Average number of kids per multi-family housing unit just don't support this presumption. The School Board has this information and their ratios are over-estimating the amount of children generated by all housing types based on actual enrollments."
And I suppose it is these "singles and couples" with large disposable incomes that keep McNair from performing well. Until, we see you actually strolling through the McNair neighborhood and wandering the halls of the schools, your argument goes on deaf ears.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 07:33AM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:24AM
Neen,
I find it interesting that you advocate sending McNair to SL, but advocate against sending McNair to Herndon will send it down the drain. Why do you want to send SL down the drain? This seems to be a common theme for you.
Also, you say Stu will do what he wants for his schools, then you say he will take the path of least resistance. Many of elementary schools involved are not in his district, so why will he knuckle under to them?
Thomas,
The map was sent to me by Connelly's office. It the the official map of FFX county that tracks affordable rental housing.
I don't think the apartments (Jefferson and Dulles Center) would be on this map if they weren't "affordable". Dulles Center is close to where Cricket sees lower income people around. So, I don't know who's right.
Word,
You speak with such authority and definitive statements--are you on the school board? You must be.
I find it interesting that you advocate sending McNair to SL, but advocate against sending McNair to Herndon will send it down the drain. Why do you want to send SL down the drain? This seems to be a common theme for you.
Also, you say Stu will do what he wants for his schools, then you say he will take the path of least resistance. Many of elementary schools involved are not in his district, so why will he knuckle under to them?
Thomas,
The map was sent to me by Connelly's office. It the the official map of FFX county that tracks affordable rental housing.
I don't think the apartments (Jefferson and Dulles Center) would be on this map if they weren't "affordable". Dulles Center is close to where Cricket sees lower income people around. So, I don't know who's right.
Word,
You speak with such authority and definitive statements--are you on the school board? You must be.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:10AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, the democrats certainly did endorse Stu in
> 2003. They've endorsed him each time he ran. In
> 2003 he ran against a Arthur Purvis who was not
> endorsed by republicans. In 1999 Stu ran against
> a very nice black man, Tom Wilkins, an endorsed
> republican.
>
>
> >>>Gibson, who is Democrat-endorsed.<<<
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34905-20
> 03Oct29?language=printer
My source for the lack of Dem endorsement in 2003 is the then chair of the Hunter Mill Dems '''They did not endorse because the old principal was still in place..
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, the democrats certainly did endorse Stu in
> 2003. They've endorsed him each time he ran. In
> 2003 he ran against a Arthur Purvis who was not
> endorsed by republicans. In 1999 Stu ran against
> a very nice black man, Tom Wilkins, an endorsed
> republican.
>
>
> >>>Gibson, who is Democrat-endorsed.<<<
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34905-20
> 03Oct29?language=printer
My source for the lack of Dem endorsement in 2003 is the then chair of the Hunter Mill Dems '''They did not endorse because the old principal was still in place..
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:23AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>We are slowly coming back from years of neglect
> by this School system.<<<<
>
> Can anyone tell me why voters in Reston vote for
> Stu Gibson? This neglect has gone on his watch
> over the last 12 years. He stood by and did
> nothing to stop the decline of Reston schools.
Frankly, I am ready for a change. I'm not sure Stu has a much power as you think, though. To be fair to Stu, his predecessor, Lou Zone,was responsible for moving North Reston to Herndon and for not fighting to move Crossfield to our pyramid. Those two moves had more to do with declining fortunes at South Lakes.
I want everyone to know that my family had a wonderful experience at South Lakes. Both of my children were well-served by the school and I believe received quality educations there. They were never afraid, had wonderful friends, participated in as many sports, music, and other activities as they wanted, etc. They are both doing well in college and are prepared for the task. South Lakes has a wonderful Principal in Bruce Butler.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>We are slowly coming back from years of neglect
> by this School system.<<<<
>
> Can anyone tell me why voters in Reston vote for
> Stu Gibson? This neglect has gone on his watch
> over the last 12 years. He stood by and did
> nothing to stop the decline of Reston schools.
Frankly, I am ready for a change. I'm not sure Stu has a much power as you think, though. To be fair to Stu, his predecessor, Lou Zone,was responsible for moving North Reston to Herndon and for not fighting to move Crossfield to our pyramid. Those two moves had more to do with declining fortunes at South Lakes.
I want everyone to know that my family had a wonderful experience at South Lakes. Both of my children were well-served by the school and I believe received quality educations there. They were never afraid, had wonderful friends, participated in as many sports, music, and other activities as they wanted, etc. They are both doing well in college and are prepared for the task. South Lakes has a wonderful Principal in Bruce Butler.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:23AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> The map was sent to me by Connelly's office. It
> the the official map of FFX county that tracks
> affordable rental housing.
I'm guessing that map is a marketing tool for employers to convince them that there is affordable housing for their employees which is a huge issue for corporations considering a relocation into FFX. It certainly would shows market rate housing but not the public housing in Herndon. Does it list Stonegate? Sycamore?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> The map was sent to me by Connelly's office. It
> the the official map of FFX county that tracks
> affordable rental housing.
I'm guessing that map is a marketing tool for employers to convince them that there is affordable housing for their employees which is a huge issue for corporations considering a relocation into FFX. It certainly would shows market rate housing but not the public housing in Herndon. Does it list Stonegate? Sycamore?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:31AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, the democrats certainly did endorse Stu in
> 2003. They've endorsed him each time he ran. In
> 2003 he ran against a Arthur Purvis who was not
> endorsed by republicans. In 1999 Stu ran against
> a very nice black man, Tom Wilkins, an endorsed
> republican.
>
>
> >>>Gibson, who is Democrat-endorsed.<<<
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34905-20
> 03Oct29?language=printer
Neen, Tom Wilkins is a very nice man, but for that race he was a Republican in Name Only. He is really very liberal and was associated with many powerful liberals in Reston. BTW, not everyone in Reston is liberal, at least not me. I'm a true-blue conservative. But I have to admit that the times I heard Christine, she was not very impressive, but rather emotional and seemed a little unhinged.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, the democrats certainly did endorse Stu in
> 2003. They've endorsed him each time he ran. In
> 2003 he ran against a Arthur Purvis who was not
> endorsed by republicans. In 1999 Stu ran against
> a very nice black man, Tom Wilkins, an endorsed
> republican.
>
>
> >>>Gibson, who is Democrat-endorsed.<<<
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A34905-20
> 03Oct29?language=printer
Neen, Tom Wilkins is a very nice man, but for that race he was a Republican in Name Only. He is really very liberal and was associated with many powerful liberals in Reston. BTW, not everyone in Reston is liberal, at least not me. I'm a true-blue conservative. But I have to admit that the times I heard Christine, she was not very impressive, but rather emotional and seemed a little unhinged.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:38AM
I'm voting for Christine, mainly because she talks about improving Reston schools and looking at curriculum issues, like why we don't use Phonics in reading instruction, and what is this Everyday Math? Fairfax is always too willing to jump on the latest educational technique without really looking at results. Whole Language? Come on--that that been discredited years ago, yet is still in place in FFX county.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLakes18
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:50AM
I met Arakelian at another candidate forum. I have to say she was one of the most unlikeable people I have met - ever. Contradicted herself throughout. Attacked Stu Gibson personally in a very unprofessional way.
She also didn't seem to know what she stood for. She told the crowd (mostly eventual south lakes parents) she is for redistricting, yet has told other groups she is against it. Seems like she will tell you whatever you want to hear.
Oh, and she whined.
She also didn't seem to know what she stood for. She told the crowd (mostly eventual south lakes parents) she is for redistricting, yet has told other groups she is against it. Seems like she will tell you whatever you want to hear.
Oh, and she whined.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:14AM
Comments on sl verity's comments - you grossly oversimplify and are missing the key points behind parent's concerns...speaking of terms of good versus bad - your terms - evinces a lack of regard for the facts and a concern for the 'right" thoughtful way to do things, irrespective of the result that may be reached. See the comments below
>>Anti-redistricting posters on this site have told me that:
-South Lakes is bad.
SOUTH LAKES IS NOT "BAD", BUT IT DOES HAVE RISK FACTORS, AND A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION SEGMENT THAT HAS LITTLE IN COMMON IN TERMS OF ACADEMIC NEEDS OR FOCUS WITH THE AVERAGE STUDENT AT OAKTON, MADISON, AND THE LIKE. INASMUCH AS SCHOOLS ONLY HAVE SO MUCH ENERGY AND RESOURCE, PARENTS ARE FAIRLY CONCERNED AS TO WHETHER THEIR CHILDREN'S ACADEMIC AND SOCIAL NEEDS WILL BE MET IN A WAY THAT IS SATISFACTORY TO THEM. FURTHER, GIVEN THAT IN GENERAL FAIRFAX COUNTY'S ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE IS AT BEST MEDIOCRE RELATIVE TO INCOME LEVELS, ANY RISK OF THOSE LEVELS DIMINISHING FURTHER IS AN EXTREME CAUSE FOR CONCERN. ALL OF THESE FACTORS PROVIDE FOR A SENSE OF ANXIETY - AND OVERCOMING THAT ANXIETY MEANS THAT SOUTH LAKES MUST, IN MY VIEW, ASSIDUOUSLY WORK TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE TRANSFEROR STUDENTS TO MAKE THE TRANSFER WORK? NOT NECESSARY, YOU SAY? WELL, IF SOUTH LAKES DOESN'T, THEY WON'T GET THE STUDENTS, IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY FORCED MARCH FOISTED UPON THE AFFECTED FAMILIES. NO FORCE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN SUBURBAN PARENTS ON A MISSION TO PRESERVE THEIR KIDS FUTURE. BLUNTLY PUT, SOUTH LAKES MUST PUT FORTH A SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO MAKE IT WORK, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
-IB is bad.
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH AND THE STATEMENT REFLECTS A SIMPLISTIC WORLD VIEW. IB IS AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM - ESPECIALLY FOR TOP DRAWER STUDENTS WTIH THE CAPABILITY TO GET OVER 2100 ON THE SAT'S - IT IS JUST THAT ITS UTILITY TO THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS IN THE OAKTON/MADISON PROFILE. IB IS LESS FLEXIBLE THAN THE AP PROGRAM, IF ONLY BECAUSE THE SCORES CANNOT BE PROCESSED IN A TIMELY WAY THAT PERMITS STUDENTS TO ENGAGE MORE CONCRETELY IN COLLEGE AND CURRICULUM PLANNING. PUT ANECDOTALLY, A HANDFUL OF AP CLASSES IS OFTEN THE RIGHT DOSE OF MEDICINE FOR THE STUDENT MATRICULATING AT JMU, MARY WASHINGTON, VCU, ETC.
-AP is good.
NOT ALWAYS GOOD - BUT IT IS BETTER FOR THE AFFECTED POPULATION - SEE ABOVE - THE DEFENSIVENESS AND RESISTANCE TO MEETING LEGITIMATE STUDENT NEEDS IS BAFFLING.
-There will be no islands - Stu said, Janey said, etc, ad nauseum.
AN ABSTRACT SHIBBOLETH THAT MEANS LITTLE.
-Leave our schools alone.
THERE IS ALWAYS RESISTANCE TO CHANGE - THIS IS WHY A PROACTIVE APPROACH TO MAKE TRANSFERORS' FEEL CHALLENGED AND EXCITED IS NECESSARY.
-This is all about social engineering.
ABSOLUTELY IT IS. RACE, ABOVE ALL ELSE, IS THE BIGGEST DRIVING FACTORS IN OUR SCHOOLS - BAR NONE. NOTHING CONFOUNDS EDUCATORS MORE (OR RAISES THE SPECTER OF WHITE GUILT MORE) THAN THE PERSISTENT ACHIEVEMENT GAP - WHICH HAS TO DATE BEEN CONCERNED MOSTLY WITH BLACK STUDENT PERFORMANCE BUT WITH THE INFUSION OF SO MANY IMMIGRANTS FROM LATIN AMERICA, IT HAS TAKEN ON A HISPANIC CAST AS WELL. THE RACE PROBLEM HAS GENERATED UNTOLD MILLIONS, IF NOT BILLIONS, SPENT ON LITIGATION, BUSING, SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION, SPECIAL PROGRAMS OF EVERY CONCEIVABLE TYPE, AND WORST OF ALL, CONCOCTIONS LIKE WHOLE LANGUAGE READING AND FUZZY MATH AND A DUMBING DOWN OF CURRICULA. ANYONE WHO FAILS TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNIFICANT ROLE RACE PLAYS IN THE SCHOOLS IS DELUSIONAL. TO BE FAIR, HISTORICALLY THIS COUNTRY'S TREATMENT OF BLACK CITIZENS HAS BEEN ABYSMAL - THE PROBLEM IS THE SOLUTIONS WE HAVE IMPOSED HAVE BY AND LARGE ONLY HAVE HAD MARGINAL BENEFIT - THE GAPS STILL EXIST - AND THE SOLUTIONS FRANKLY NOW APPEAR AFTER DECADES OF SOCIAL ENGINEERING TO LIE IN AMELIORATING CULTURAL FACTORS (WHICH SEEM MORE PERNICIOUS THAN GENETIC ONES) THAN ANYTHING ELSE - AND THIS TYPE OF CONCLUSION MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WITH A LOT VESTED IN THE EXISTING SOCIAL WELFARE SCHEME UNCOMFORTABLE. PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO SPEAK BLUNTLY TO THE ISSUE ARE NOT RECEIVED EASILY OR WELL - BUT SO BE IT.
-Market forces are good.
NOT ALWAYS - MARKET FORCES ARE IN NO SENSE NATURAL IN THE ADAM SMITH SENSE - RULES AND A STRUCTURE OF POLITICAL ECONOMY MAKE FOR COMPETITION - BUT EMPIRICALLY ANY SYSTEM BENEFITS FROM COMPETITION - OFTEN LOTS OF IT - INCLUDING VIGOROUS COMPETITION FOR IDEAS. THE MORE APPOSITE QUESTION IS HOW TO MAKE VIBRANT COMPETITION PROSPER WITHIN LIMITS APPROPRIATE FOR A SCHOOL SYSTEM AND THE VARIOUS CONSTITUENTS THAT MAKE DEMANDS ON IT. BUT CERTAINLY AN INFUSION OF COMPETITION WITHIN REASON IS BENEFICIAL - AS MUCH AS THAT MAY IRRITATE BUREAUCRATS AND UNION MEMBERS. I FIND IT LAUGHABLE THAT SCHOOLS WILL PAY THOUSANDS TO SUPPORT SPORTS TEAMS TO ENGAGE IN VIBRANT COMPETITION WITH THE GOALS OF ENTERTAINING THE COMMUNITY AND PERMITTING ALL TOO MANY PARENTS TO LIVE VICARIOUSLY THROUGH THEIR OWN. BUT ANY MENTION OF COMPETITION WITH REGARD TO ACADEMICS - WHERE IT REALLY COUNTS IN AN EVER INCREASING KNOWLEDGE BASED ECONOMY IS FROWNED UPON FOR FEAR OF PUTTING PEOPLE UNDER PRESSURE OR CREATING STIGMAS. SILLY, ISNT' IT? LEARNING IS ABOUT SUSTAINING EGO DAMAGE AND BEING COMFORTABLE WITH COMPETING - LETS EMBRACE IT.
-Just leave us out of it.
AGAIN, PEOPLE ARE OFTEN RESISTANT TO CHANGE. MAKE THEM LESS SO BY A CONCERTED APPEAL TO EXCELLENCE.
-We paid taxes to live in this school district.<<
YOU ARE CORRECT TO POINT OUT THE MORAL HAZARDS OF LIVING IN FAIRFAX COUNTY - ONE CAN BE REDISTRICTED REALLY ON A WHIM - AND RELIANCE IN GOING TO ANY ONE SCHOOL IS MISPLACED. BUT PARENTS DO PAY CONSIDERABLE TAXES - AND THEY OUGHT TO BE TREATED AS VALUABLE CUSTOMERS IN THAT SENSE. ONE ALL TOO OFTEN GETS THE NOTION THAT THE AFFECTED STUDENTS IN THIS EXTANT CASE, IN THE QUEST TO MAKE NCLB NUMBERS (A PROGRAM I DISAGREE WITH, BY THE WAY), ARE PAWNS IN A NUMBERS GAME. NO QUESTION THAT ISSUE WEIGHS ON EVERYONE'S MIND WHEN IT COMES TO SOUTH LAKES AND THEIR DECLINE IN ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE.
________________________
>>Anti-redistricting posters on this site have told me that:
-South Lakes is bad.
SOUTH LAKES IS NOT "BAD", BUT IT DOES HAVE RISK FACTORS, AND A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION SEGMENT THAT HAS LITTLE IN COMMON IN TERMS OF ACADEMIC NEEDS OR FOCUS WITH THE AVERAGE STUDENT AT OAKTON, MADISON, AND THE LIKE. INASMUCH AS SCHOOLS ONLY HAVE SO MUCH ENERGY AND RESOURCE, PARENTS ARE FAIRLY CONCERNED AS TO WHETHER THEIR CHILDREN'S ACADEMIC AND SOCIAL NEEDS WILL BE MET IN A WAY THAT IS SATISFACTORY TO THEM. FURTHER, GIVEN THAT IN GENERAL FAIRFAX COUNTY'S ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE IS AT BEST MEDIOCRE RELATIVE TO INCOME LEVELS, ANY RISK OF THOSE LEVELS DIMINISHING FURTHER IS AN EXTREME CAUSE FOR CONCERN. ALL OF THESE FACTORS PROVIDE FOR A SENSE OF ANXIETY - AND OVERCOMING THAT ANXIETY MEANS THAT SOUTH LAKES MUST, IN MY VIEW, ASSIDUOUSLY WORK TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE TRANSFEROR STUDENTS TO MAKE THE TRANSFER WORK? NOT NECESSARY, YOU SAY? WELL, IF SOUTH LAKES DOESN'T, THEY WON'T GET THE STUDENTS, IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY FORCED MARCH FOISTED UPON THE AFFECTED FAMILIES. NO FORCE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN SUBURBAN PARENTS ON A MISSION TO PRESERVE THEIR KIDS FUTURE. BLUNTLY PUT, SOUTH LAKES MUST PUT FORTH A SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO MAKE IT WORK, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
-IB is bad.
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH AND THE STATEMENT REFLECTS A SIMPLISTIC WORLD VIEW. IB IS AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM - ESPECIALLY FOR TOP DRAWER STUDENTS WTIH THE CAPABILITY TO GET OVER 2100 ON THE SAT'S - IT IS JUST THAT ITS UTILITY TO THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS IN THE OAKTON/MADISON PROFILE. IB IS LESS FLEXIBLE THAN THE AP PROGRAM, IF ONLY BECAUSE THE SCORES CANNOT BE PROCESSED IN A TIMELY WAY THAT PERMITS STUDENTS TO ENGAGE MORE CONCRETELY IN COLLEGE AND CURRICULUM PLANNING. PUT ANECDOTALLY, A HANDFUL OF AP CLASSES IS OFTEN THE RIGHT DOSE OF MEDICINE FOR THE STUDENT MATRICULATING AT JMU, MARY WASHINGTON, VCU, ETC.
-AP is good.
NOT ALWAYS GOOD - BUT IT IS BETTER FOR THE AFFECTED POPULATION - SEE ABOVE - THE DEFENSIVENESS AND RESISTANCE TO MEETING LEGITIMATE STUDENT NEEDS IS BAFFLING.
-There will be no islands - Stu said, Janey said, etc, ad nauseum.
AN ABSTRACT SHIBBOLETH THAT MEANS LITTLE.
-Leave our schools alone.
THERE IS ALWAYS RESISTANCE TO CHANGE - THIS IS WHY A PROACTIVE APPROACH TO MAKE TRANSFERORS' FEEL CHALLENGED AND EXCITED IS NECESSARY.
-This is all about social engineering.
ABSOLUTELY IT IS. RACE, ABOVE ALL ELSE, IS THE BIGGEST DRIVING FACTORS IN OUR SCHOOLS - BAR NONE. NOTHING CONFOUNDS EDUCATORS MORE (OR RAISES THE SPECTER OF WHITE GUILT MORE) THAN THE PERSISTENT ACHIEVEMENT GAP - WHICH HAS TO DATE BEEN CONCERNED MOSTLY WITH BLACK STUDENT PERFORMANCE BUT WITH THE INFUSION OF SO MANY IMMIGRANTS FROM LATIN AMERICA, IT HAS TAKEN ON A HISPANIC CAST AS WELL. THE RACE PROBLEM HAS GENERATED UNTOLD MILLIONS, IF NOT BILLIONS, SPENT ON LITIGATION, BUSING, SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION, SPECIAL PROGRAMS OF EVERY CONCEIVABLE TYPE, AND WORST OF ALL, CONCOCTIONS LIKE WHOLE LANGUAGE READING AND FUZZY MATH AND A DUMBING DOWN OF CURRICULA. ANYONE WHO FAILS TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNIFICANT ROLE RACE PLAYS IN THE SCHOOLS IS DELUSIONAL. TO BE FAIR, HISTORICALLY THIS COUNTRY'S TREATMENT OF BLACK CITIZENS HAS BEEN ABYSMAL - THE PROBLEM IS THE SOLUTIONS WE HAVE IMPOSED HAVE BY AND LARGE ONLY HAVE HAD MARGINAL BENEFIT - THE GAPS STILL EXIST - AND THE SOLUTIONS FRANKLY NOW APPEAR AFTER DECADES OF SOCIAL ENGINEERING TO LIE IN AMELIORATING CULTURAL FACTORS (WHICH SEEM MORE PERNICIOUS THAN GENETIC ONES) THAN ANYTHING ELSE - AND THIS TYPE OF CONCLUSION MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WITH A LOT VESTED IN THE EXISTING SOCIAL WELFARE SCHEME UNCOMFORTABLE. PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO SPEAK BLUNTLY TO THE ISSUE ARE NOT RECEIVED EASILY OR WELL - BUT SO BE IT.
-Market forces are good.
NOT ALWAYS - MARKET FORCES ARE IN NO SENSE NATURAL IN THE ADAM SMITH SENSE - RULES AND A STRUCTURE OF POLITICAL ECONOMY MAKE FOR COMPETITION - BUT EMPIRICALLY ANY SYSTEM BENEFITS FROM COMPETITION - OFTEN LOTS OF IT - INCLUDING VIGOROUS COMPETITION FOR IDEAS. THE MORE APPOSITE QUESTION IS HOW TO MAKE VIBRANT COMPETITION PROSPER WITHIN LIMITS APPROPRIATE FOR A SCHOOL SYSTEM AND THE VARIOUS CONSTITUENTS THAT MAKE DEMANDS ON IT. BUT CERTAINLY AN INFUSION OF COMPETITION WITHIN REASON IS BENEFICIAL - AS MUCH AS THAT MAY IRRITATE BUREAUCRATS AND UNION MEMBERS. I FIND IT LAUGHABLE THAT SCHOOLS WILL PAY THOUSANDS TO SUPPORT SPORTS TEAMS TO ENGAGE IN VIBRANT COMPETITION WITH THE GOALS OF ENTERTAINING THE COMMUNITY AND PERMITTING ALL TOO MANY PARENTS TO LIVE VICARIOUSLY THROUGH THEIR OWN. BUT ANY MENTION OF COMPETITION WITH REGARD TO ACADEMICS - WHERE IT REALLY COUNTS IN AN EVER INCREASING KNOWLEDGE BASED ECONOMY IS FROWNED UPON FOR FEAR OF PUTTING PEOPLE UNDER PRESSURE OR CREATING STIGMAS. SILLY, ISNT' IT? LEARNING IS ABOUT SUSTAINING EGO DAMAGE AND BEING COMFORTABLE WITH COMPETING - LETS EMBRACE IT.
-Just leave us out of it.
AGAIN, PEOPLE ARE OFTEN RESISTANT TO CHANGE. MAKE THEM LESS SO BY A CONCERTED APPEAL TO EXCELLENCE.
-We paid taxes to live in this school district.<<
YOU ARE CORRECT TO POINT OUT THE MORAL HAZARDS OF LIVING IN FAIRFAX COUNTY - ONE CAN BE REDISTRICTED REALLY ON A WHIM - AND RELIANCE IN GOING TO ANY ONE SCHOOL IS MISPLACED. BUT PARENTS DO PAY CONSIDERABLE TAXES - AND THEY OUGHT TO BE TREATED AS VALUABLE CUSTOMERS IN THAT SENSE. ONE ALL TOO OFTEN GETS THE NOTION THAT THE AFFECTED STUDENTS IN THIS EXTANT CASE, IN THE QUEST TO MAKE NCLB NUMBERS (A PROGRAM I DISAGREE WITH, BY THE WAY), ARE PAWNS IN A NUMBERS GAME. NO QUESTION THAT ISSUE WEIGHS ON EVERYONE'S MIND WHEN IT COMES TO SOUTH LAKES AND THEIR DECLINE IN ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE.
________________________
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:25AM
Another question -
On the boundary link from the FCPS home page (http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm), there are a list of FAQs about the West County Boundary Study.
The response to the thirteenth question (they aren't numbered but you can count down...) regarding the Westfield addition contains this -
"An additional consideration is FCPS’ desire to establish a regional consortium of specialized and advanced high school courses and programs that were previously exclusive to centralized academies. This approach will allow FCPS to offer advanced academy-level programs at groups of high schools serving regions of the county rather than at specific schools serving the entire county. The consortium approach will reduce the travel time and distance and consequently the amount of lost instructional time for students enrolled in the academy programs. It should be noted that the renovation of South Lakes High School included specific facilities to support the implementation of this consortium concept and these specialized courses. "
To what is this referring? What specialized courses?
On the boundary link from the FCPS home page (http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm), there are a list of FAQs about the West County Boundary Study.
The response to the thirteenth question (they aren't numbered but you can count down...) regarding the Westfield addition contains this -
"An additional consideration is FCPS’ desire to establish a regional consortium of specialized and advanced high school courses and programs that were previously exclusive to centralized academies. This approach will allow FCPS to offer advanced academy-level programs at groups of high schools serving regions of the county rather than at specific schools serving the entire county. The consortium approach will reduce the travel time and distance and consequently the amount of lost instructional time for students enrolled in the academy programs. It should be noted that the renovation of South Lakes High School included specific facilities to support the implementation of this consortium concept and these specialized courses. "
To what is this referring? What specialized courses?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:03PM
Quantum wrote,
BLUNTLY PUT, SOUTH LAKES MUST PUT FORTH A SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO MAKE IT WORK, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
Do you have some specific "significant effort"? To what are you referring?
BLUNTLY PUT, SOUTH LAKES MUST PUT FORTH A SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO MAKE IT WORK, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
Do you have some specific "significant effort"? To what are you referring?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:05PM
Quantum wrote
IB is bad.
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH AND THE STATEMENT REFLECTS A SIMPLISTIC WORLD VIEW. IB IS AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM - ESPECIALLY FOR TOP DRAWER STUDENTS WTIH THE CAPABILITY TO GET OVER 2100 ON THE SAT'S - IT IS JUST THAT ITS UTILITY TO THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS IN THE OAKTON/MADISON PROFILE. IB IS LESS FLEXIBLE THAN THE AP PROGRAM, IF ONLY BECAUSE THE SCORES CANNOT BE PROCESSED IN A TIMELY WAY THAT PERMITS STUDENTS TO ENGAGE MORE CONCRETELY IN COLLEGE AND CURRICULUM PLANNING. PUT ANECDOTALLY, A HANDFUL OF AP CLASSES IS OFTEN THE RIGHT DOSE OF MEDICINE FOR THE STUDENT MATRICULATING AT JMU, MARY WASHINGTON, VCU, ETC.
We have discussed IB. Most kids I know at SL do take " a handful" of IB classes, just like AP, mixed with Honors classes. Not sure why you can't accept this. Also, Thomas' experiences are only one. Other people have posted they don't have a problem with timing of results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 01:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
IB is bad.
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH AND THE STATEMENT REFLECTS A SIMPLISTIC WORLD VIEW. IB IS AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM - ESPECIALLY FOR TOP DRAWER STUDENTS WTIH THE CAPABILITY TO GET OVER 2100 ON THE SAT'S - IT IS JUST THAT ITS UTILITY TO THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS IN THE OAKTON/MADISON PROFILE. IB IS LESS FLEXIBLE THAN THE AP PROGRAM, IF ONLY BECAUSE THE SCORES CANNOT BE PROCESSED IN A TIMELY WAY THAT PERMITS STUDENTS TO ENGAGE MORE CONCRETELY IN COLLEGE AND CURRICULUM PLANNING. PUT ANECDOTALLY, A HANDFUL OF AP CLASSES IS OFTEN THE RIGHT DOSE OF MEDICINE FOR THE STUDENT MATRICULATING AT JMU, MARY WASHINGTON, VCU, ETC.
We have discussed IB. Most kids I know at SL do take " a handful" of IB classes, just like AP, mixed with Honors classes. Not sure why you can't accept this. Also, Thomas' experiences are only one. Other people have posted they don't have a problem with timing of results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 01:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
voter
()
Date: October 30, 2007 01:44PM
IB SUCKS so does STUpid Gibson and Kathy Smith DEMOcrats
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
weliketorapallthetime
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:31PM
I don't care what color the kids are at any school mine would attend. (Actually, any school without some diversity makes me uneasy). In my opinion, the academic achievement and the well-being of any student body lands squarely in one group's lap: the parents! Show me a community of parents who take an obsessive interest in their children's academics, value-system and social well-being, and you'll find schools with great test scores, low drop-out rates, and safe students. These are the families that think and act like me, and with whom I want my kids to be educated. These are black, white, Asian, Indian, and Korean families. If communities are to be redistricted, please send the kids of willing families to my school who want a better future for their kids. I keep reading that some think just the opposite will be a better approach...send motivated families kids to underachieving schools. How will this help the parents of the underachieving kids change their ways? This must be some kind of mistake. What idiots would take an approach like that?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
xxoo
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:39PM
What? You don't think you'll find that at South Lakes? Geesh. This might be the most offensive post I have seen yet.
Show me a community of parents who take an obsessive interest in their children's academics, value-system and social well-being, and you'll find schools with great test scores, low drop-out rates, and safe students. These are the families that think and act like me, and with whom I want my kids to be educated. These are black, white, Asian, Indian, and Korean families
Show me a community of parents who take an obsessive interest in their children's academics, value-system and social well-being, and you'll find schools with great test scores, low drop-out rates, and safe students. These are the families that think and act like me, and with whom I want my kids to be educated. These are black, white, Asian, Indian, and Korean families
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:50PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We have discussed IB. Most kids I know at SL do
> take " a handful" of IB classes, just like AP,
> mixed with Honors classes. Not sure why you can't
> accept this. Also, Thomas' experiences are only
> one. Other people have posted they don't have a
> problem with timing of results.
Re: Quantum's previous comments and others about IB/AP and pupil placing. Bruce Butler has specifically said to a group of 7 of my neighbors who I will get to post, if necessary, (in effect this isn't hearsay) - that he would add AP classes but needed the numbers of students to do so. In other words, he needs the volume of transferors who would be interested in adding AP classes to actually add AP. With the current population of 1400, he cannot afford to have both programs - but with 500-700 more kids he will.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We have discussed IB. Most kids I know at SL do
> take " a handful" of IB classes, just like AP,
> mixed with Honors classes. Not sure why you can't
> accept this. Also, Thomas' experiences are only
> one. Other people have posted they don't have a
> problem with timing of results.
Re: Quantum's previous comments and others about IB/AP and pupil placing. Bruce Butler has specifically said to a group of 7 of my neighbors who I will get to post, if necessary, (in effect this isn't hearsay) - that he would add AP classes but needed the numbers of students to do so. In other words, he needs the volume of transferors who would be interested in adding AP classes to actually add AP. With the current population of 1400, he cannot afford to have both programs - but with 500-700 more kids he will.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 02:52PM
Old timer,
Yes, please get them to post! When was this said? Was it a meeting of some type?
Yes, please get them to post! When was this said? Was it a meeting of some type?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
weliketorapallthetime
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:16PM
xxoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? You don't think you'll find that at South Lakes? Geesh.
> This might be the most offensive post I have seen yet.
xoxo, I'm sure there are many good families at South Lakes. 79% of them to be exact. They other 21% for some reason accept that their children don't finish high school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? You don't think you'll find that at South Lakes? Geesh.
> This might be the most offensive post I have seen yet.
xoxo, I'm sure there are many good families at South Lakes. 79% of them to be exact. They other 21% for some reason accept that their children don't finish high school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:30PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old timer,
> Yes, please get them to post! When was this said?
> Was it a meeting of some type?
This was at a meeting of 7 parents and Bruce this summer (it was the last week of July as we were out of town and couldn't attend). They are all parents of elementary students who requested a meeting of him as they knew the boundary issues were coming up. They wanted to understand his commitment to the school, his philosophy, as it is our pyramid school.
We are all suburban parents with an "obsessive interest in their children's academics, value-system and social well-being." We are all VERY ACTIVE AND COMMITTED in our neighborhood, our elementary school, and want a "community" school where our kids will spend 4 years with others with our same values. They requested the meeting and he spent quite a while with them. They all came away very impressed with him, his commitment to the students, and his desire to change the reputation of South Lakes. They pushed him on marketing the school more effectively.
I will get them to post. Effectively he said he would love to add AP classes with the caveat that he will not duplicate what he has in IB. The classes would have to supplement the IB curriculum. He said he would need enough "numbers" to justify it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old timer,
> Yes, please get them to post! When was this said?
> Was it a meeting of some type?
This was at a meeting of 7 parents and Bruce this summer (it was the last week of July as we were out of town and couldn't attend). They are all parents of elementary students who requested a meeting of him as they knew the boundary issues were coming up. They wanted to understand his commitment to the school, his philosophy, as it is our pyramid school.
We are all suburban parents with an "obsessive interest in their children's academics, value-system and social well-being." We are all VERY ACTIVE AND COMMITTED in our neighborhood, our elementary school, and want a "community" school where our kids will spend 4 years with others with our same values. They requested the meeting and he spent quite a while with them. They all came away very impressed with him, his commitment to the students, and his desire to change the reputation of South Lakes. They pushed him on marketing the school more effectively.
I will get them to post. Effectively he said he would love to add AP classes with the caveat that he will not duplicate what he has in IB. The classes would have to supplement the IB curriculum. He said he would need enough "numbers" to justify it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:37PM
South Lakes, when did I advocate that McNair go to South Lakes? I think that would be disastrous for South Lakes, but I am a realist too. Once the election is over, the politicians will take the path of least resistance. Also, Stu is very quick to say that scores don't matter and affirmative action is very important, more diversity is better, according to him. It will be very difficult for him to now argue that McNair shouldn't go to South Lakes. Community groups will throw McNair into South Lakes in a minute, to prevent their communities from going to South Lakes. What happens when 90% of the community groups vote to send McNair? I have never said that I want McNair to go there, but if one of the goals is reducing numbers at Westfield, McNair has to go to either Herndon or South Lakes. I think it will be South Lakes because Janie will not allow it to go to Herndon, Stu has no real argument for not taking it into South Lakes and community groups will support that move. Just my opinion. Your opinions may vary.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:42PM
Thomas More,
Your source is wrong, the democrats endorsed Stu Gibson each time he ran. I can't imagine why a democrat would claim otherwise. Oh wait, I take that back. I can understand why a democrat would not want to claim Stu Gibson but I an assure you that he was endorsed by democrats in his last three elections. It has been something of a problem for him since he is covered under the Hatch act.
Your source is wrong, the democrats endorsed Stu Gibson each time he ran. I can't imagine why a democrat would claim otherwise. Oh wait, I take that back. I can understand why a democrat would not want to claim Stu Gibson but I an assure you that he was endorsed by democrats in his last three elections. It has been something of a problem for him since he is covered under the Hatch act.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:45PM
weliketorapallthetime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> xxoo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What? You don't think you'll find that at South
> Lakes? Geesh.
> > This might be the most offensive post I have
> seen yet.
>
> xoxo, I'm sure there are many good families at
> South Lakes. 79% of them to be exact. They other
> 21% for some reason accept that their children
> don't finish high school.
And when 500-700 students from good families are added - these numbers will obviously change to about 90%/10%.
Those same underclass students exist at all schools (title I) except Langley, Lake Braddock, Woodson, and Madison - they have no title 1 schools. Even Oakton has Mosby Woods. Most schools don't have such a small percentage of good families, you're 79%, to balance out the 21%. But because of poor redistricting of previous school boards, those balance populations were moved to Oakton and Herndon...
-------------------------------------------------------
> xxoo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What? You don't think you'll find that at South
> Lakes? Geesh.
> > This might be the most offensive post I have
> seen yet.
>
> xoxo, I'm sure there are many good families at
> South Lakes. 79% of them to be exact. They other
> 21% for some reason accept that their children
> don't finish high school.
And when 500-700 students from good families are added - these numbers will obviously change to about 90%/10%.
Those same underclass students exist at all schools (title I) except Langley, Lake Braddock, Woodson, and Madison - they have no title 1 schools. Even Oakton has Mosby Woods. Most schools don't have such a small percentage of good families, you're 79%, to balance out the 21%. But because of poor redistricting of previous school boards, those balance populations were moved to Oakton and Herndon...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:46PM
South Lakes Parent said:
>>>I'm voting for Christine, mainly because she talks about improving Reston schools and looking at curriculum issues, like why we don't use Phonics in reading instruction, and what is this Everyday Math? Fairfax is always too willing to jump on the latest educational technique without really looking at results. Whole Language? Come on--that that been discredited years ago, yet is still in place in FFX county.<<<
FINALLY something we totally agree on! And Stu LOVES that whole language thing. He's supported it every step of his career. And he also very much supported that horrible Everyday Math, over the protests of black groups and parents. It's terrible for kids whose parents can't afford math tutors to teach their kids real math or take them to Kumon math on Saturdays.
I live for the day when FCPS starts a new program that has been shown to work, with REAL research, and not just some educrat fad that they FEEL will work and that 'staff just loves'.
>>>I'm voting for Christine, mainly because she talks about improving Reston schools and looking at curriculum issues, like why we don't use Phonics in reading instruction, and what is this Everyday Math? Fairfax is always too willing to jump on the latest educational technique without really looking at results. Whole Language? Come on--that that been discredited years ago, yet is still in place in FFX county.<<<
FINALLY something we totally agree on! And Stu LOVES that whole language thing. He's supported it every step of his career. And he also very much supported that horrible Everyday Math, over the protests of black groups and parents. It's terrible for kids whose parents can't afford math tutors to teach their kids real math or take them to Kumon math on Saturdays.
I live for the day when FCPS starts a new program that has been shown to work, with REAL research, and not just some educrat fad that they FEEL will work and that 'staff just loves'.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 03:52PM
>>>I met Arakelian at another candidate forum. I have to say she was one of the most unlikeable people I have met - ever. Contradicted herself throughout. Attacked Stu Gibson personally in a very unprofessional way.
She also didn't seem to know what she stood for. She told the crowd (mostly eventual south lakes parents) she is for redistricting, yet has told other groups she is against it. Seems like she will tell you whatever you want to hear.
Oh, and she whined.<<<
HI STU!!! Does your office know that you post here during the day????
You really should knock off the sighing and whining during your debates. Picking your nose is also out, it's just not attractive in public. I know it's a shock to you to be running against a real candidate, but, please, stop with the juvenile posts. In debates please stop the grunting and groaning, the eye rolling, the fake squints, the snorts, and the nose picking. They all make you look ridiculous.
She also didn't seem to know what she stood for. She told the crowd (mostly eventual south lakes parents) she is for redistricting, yet has told other groups she is against it. Seems like she will tell you whatever you want to hear.
Oh, and she whined.<<<
HI STU!!! Does your office know that you post here during the day????
You really should knock off the sighing and whining during your debates. Picking your nose is also out, it's just not attractive in public. I know it's a shock to you to be running against a real candidate, but, please, stop with the juvenile posts. In debates please stop the grunting and groaning, the eye rolling, the fake squints, the snorts, and the nose picking. They all make you look ridiculous.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:02PM
Quantum,
I agree with everything you say, your posts are fabulous. On NCLB we disagree. It is not driving these changes, rather the liberals are using it as an excuse to do their desired social engineering. If the democrats continue to dominate our school board I expect that in the next 4 years we will see ALL of our high schools redistricted to meet their social engineering goals. Of course there is ZERO evidence that putting a smart, hard working, Asian child in a class next to a an under achieving Black child, improves the education of either. NONE. Typical of the democrats, they refuse to believe that, because they FEEL it SHOULD work, much as they FEEL about Whole Language, and ever fuzzier math, and the wonderful 'open schools' that they built in the 1970's and 1980's that gave us South Lakes, with no outside windows and no interior doors.
Don't they ever get sick of being wrong?
I agree with everything you say, your posts are fabulous. On NCLB we disagree. It is not driving these changes, rather the liberals are using it as an excuse to do their desired social engineering. If the democrats continue to dominate our school board I expect that in the next 4 years we will see ALL of our high schools redistricted to meet their social engineering goals. Of course there is ZERO evidence that putting a smart, hard working, Asian child in a class next to a an under achieving Black child, improves the education of either. NONE. Typical of the democrats, they refuse to believe that, because they FEEL it SHOULD work, much as they FEEL about Whole Language, and ever fuzzier math, and the wonderful 'open schools' that they built in the 1970's and 1980's that gave us South Lakes, with no outside windows and no interior doors.
Don't they ever get sick of being wrong?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:03PM
Neen:
Please get some rest. You are acting...........batty.
And please knock of that whacky punctuation (Uppercase/lowercase) stuff. It makes me seasick.
Please get some rest. You are acting...........batty.
And please knock of that whacky punctuation (Uppercase/lowercase) stuff. It makes me seasick.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:05PM
Neen,
What is Kumon Math?
What is Kumon Math?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:08PM
The consortium is in place but means little. Each consortium has 4 or 5 schools, with an IB program in each, and academy (vocational programs) in one of the schools, Latin classes in at least one, ASM in one, and Multivariable caluculus in one school. However, many of the schools that are supposed to have the advanced math do not have it yet. Students can take classes at one of the other schools in their consortium if they have their own transportation and can work out their schedules to accommodate the classes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:11PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old timer,
> Yes, please get them to post! When was this said?
> Was it a meeting of some type?
Butler said this at the last PTA mtg.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old timer,
> Yes, please get them to post! When was this said?
> Was it a meeting of some type?
Butler said this at the last PTA mtg.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:12PM
SLverity,
I suggest you give Christine a second look. Listen to her now, or call her on the phone. I think you'll be impressed. I totally agree that in the beginning she spoke too much about her own problems with her son in FCPS. Now she's much more focused on the community and what the schools need, particularly the low performing schools. She's seen the stats, she knows what has happened and what needs to be fixed. She's more than willing to listen to the community, something that voters haven't had in Hunter Mill for 12 years.
Stu could have changed things in Reston schools. He had 12 years to get real reading programs, real math programs, programs that have worked in 11 other districts in Virginia, and other parts of FCPS. He did nothing, because of ideology. His ideology came first, over the needs of students in his district. The results speak for themselves when we see other low income schools over coming their problems while Dogwood and McNair remain on the bottom.
I suggest you give Christine a second look. Listen to her now, or call her on the phone. I think you'll be impressed. I totally agree that in the beginning she spoke too much about her own problems with her son in FCPS. Now she's much more focused on the community and what the schools need, particularly the low performing schools. She's seen the stats, she knows what has happened and what needs to be fixed. She's more than willing to listen to the community, something that voters haven't had in Hunter Mill for 12 years.
Stu could have changed things in Reston schools. He had 12 years to get real reading programs, real math programs, programs that have worked in 11 other districts in Virginia, and other parts of FCPS. He did nothing, because of ideology. His ideology came first, over the needs of students in his district. The results speak for themselves when we see other low income schools over coming their problems while Dogwood and McNair remain on the bottom.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:16PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Your source is wrong, the democrats endorsed Stu
> Gibson each time he ran. I can't imagine why a
> democrat would claim otherwise. Oh wait, I take
> that back. I can understand why a democrat would
> not want to claim Stu Gibson but I an assure you
> that he was endorsed by democrats in his last
> three elections. It has been something of a
> problem for him since he is covered under the
> Hatch act.
Do you really claim to know more about the actions of the Hunter Mill Democratic Committee than the 2003 chairman of the Hunter Mill Democratic Committee?
Seriously?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Your source is wrong, the democrats endorsed Stu
> Gibson each time he ran. I can't imagine why a
> democrat would claim otherwise. Oh wait, I take
> that back. I can understand why a democrat would
> not want to claim Stu Gibson but I an assure you
> that he was endorsed by democrats in his last
> three elections. It has been something of a
> problem for him since he is covered under the
> Hatch act.
Do you really claim to know more about the actions of the Hunter Mill Democratic Committee than the 2003 chairman of the Hunter Mill Democratic Committee?
Seriously?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:18PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen:
>
> Please get some rest. You are
> acting...........batty.
>
Hmmm, kind of like Christine. You like similar words too - especially that political term - "educrat." She used that in one of her letters to the editor. I find that offensive - stick to the specifics.
You've totally lost me now that you are "blaming" all problems on one party or another. I want to hear what you'll do different, not what some supposed "democrat" did...
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen:
>
> Please get some rest. You are
> acting...........batty.
>
Hmmm, kind of like Christine. You like similar words too - especially that political term - "educrat." She used that in one of her letters to the editor. I find that offensive - stick to the specifics.
You've totally lost me now that you are "blaming" all problems on one party or another. I want to hear what you'll do different, not what some supposed "democrat" did...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:26PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLverity,
> I suggest you give Christine a second look.
> Listen to her now, or call her on the phone. I
> think you'll be impressed. I totally agree that
> in the beginning she spoke too much about her own
> problems with her son in FCPS. Now she's much
> more focused on the community and what the schools
> need, particularly the low performing schools.
> She's seen the stats, she knows what has happened
> and what needs to be fixed. She's more than
> willing to listen to the community, something that
> voters haven't had in Hunter Mill for 12 years.
>
> Stu could have changed things in Reston schools.
> He had 12 years to get real reading programs, real
> math programs, programs that have worked in 11
> other districts in Virginia, and other parts of
> FCPS. He did nothing, because of ideology. His
> ideology came first, over the needs of students in
> his district. The results speak for themselves
> when we see other low income schools over coming
> their problems while Dogwood and McNair remain on
> the bottom.
Amen Hallejuia
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLverity,
> I suggest you give Christine a second look.
> Listen to her now, or call her on the phone. I
> think you'll be impressed. I totally agree that
> in the beginning she spoke too much about her own
> problems with her son in FCPS. Now she's much
> more focused on the community and what the schools
> need, particularly the low performing schools.
> She's seen the stats, she knows what has happened
> and what needs to be fixed. She's more than
> willing to listen to the community, something that
> voters haven't had in Hunter Mill for 12 years.
>
> Stu could have changed things in Reston schools.
> He had 12 years to get real reading programs, real
> math programs, programs that have worked in 11
> other districts in Virginia, and other parts of
> FCPS. He did nothing, because of ideology. His
> ideology came first, over the needs of students in
> his district. The results speak for themselves
> when we see other low income schools over coming
> their problems while Dogwood and McNair remain on
> the bottom.
Amen Hallejuia
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:34PM
Latest IB/Butler outrage:
Parents of sophomore both with advanced degree send e-mails to Butler asking for help with IB-English teacher assigning the entirety of The Crucible on Friday to be read for test on Tuesday of entire contents. No class discussion. No study guide for points to focus on, nothing. This is typical of this teacher's work load during the first quarter.
Butler response: I can't help you.
This kid is dropping out of pre-English and back to normal college prep english.
The IB workload is disproportionate to the pay-off.
Once again, Butler sides with his instructional staff against kids, parents and the community.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 04:37PM by Thomas More.
Parents of sophomore both with advanced degree send e-mails to Butler asking for help with IB-English teacher assigning the entirety of The Crucible on Friday to be read for test on Tuesday of entire contents. No class discussion. No study guide for points to focus on, nothing. This is typical of this teacher's work load during the first quarter.
Butler response: I can't help you.
This kid is dropping out of pre-English and back to normal college prep english.
The IB workload is disproportionate to the pay-off.
Once again, Butler sides with his instructional staff against kids, parents and the community.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 04:37PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 04:54PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> > Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> > same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> > the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> > McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
I did just that today, and I saw
Woodland Park a gated townhouse community with mercedes and BMW's in the driveways. Archstone at Woodland, Villages at Woodland. Expensive brick faced townhouse projects and new garden apts of similar quality everywhere. Talked to the manager of the Sunoco station. No crime. No loitering.
This area south of the Toll Road would be a substantial upgrade for HHS and enable Aldrin join the other Reston kids at Reston's high school: South Lakes.
Make no mistake it would raise the demographics of South Lakes also but it wouldn't unify the Reston community behind one high school but rather perpetuate Lou Zone's partitioning of Reston during the last redistricting 16 years ago. Unifying Reston in one high school district is my highest priority.
Getting rid of IB is second.
Apparently those two goals cannot be achieved with Stu, Webb and Bruce in place, so they all have to go.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 06:21PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> > Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals the
> > same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe that
> > the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> > McNair's non-English demographic. It can't be.
I did just that today, and I saw
Woodland Park a gated townhouse community with mercedes and BMW's in the driveways. Archstone at Woodland, Villages at Woodland. Expensive brick faced townhouse projects and new garden apts of similar quality everywhere. Talked to the manager of the Sunoco station. No crime. No loitering.
This area south of the Toll Road would be a substantial upgrade for HHS and enable Aldrin join the other Reston kids at Reston's high school: South Lakes.
Make no mistake it would raise the demographics of South Lakes also but it wouldn't unify the Reston community behind one high school but rather perpetuate Lou Zone's partitioning of Reston during the last redistricting 16 years ago. Unifying Reston in one high school district is my highest priority.
Getting rid of IB is second.
Apparently those two goals cannot be achieved with Stu, Webb and Bruce in place, so they all have to go.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 06:21PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 05:04PM
Thomas,
McNair has 39% free lunch and 39% limited english. The area north of the toll road isn't 39% of McNair's district. I agree with Cricket--south of the toll road must have some of the 39%. There is what is identified as affordable housing there. The biggest projects are Jefferson Commons and Dulles Center.
The school board should know where the free lunch population lives.
McNair has 39% free lunch and 39% limited english. The area north of the toll road isn't 39% of McNair's district. I agree with Cricket--south of the toll road must have some of the 39%. There is what is identified as affordable housing there. The biggest projects are Jefferson Commons and Dulles Center.
The school board should know where the free lunch population lives.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 05:09PM
Old Timer Wrote:
> Effectively he said he
> would love to add AP classes with the caveat that
> he will not duplicate what he has in IB. The
> classes would have to supplement the IB
> curriculum. He said he would need enough
> "numbers" to justify it.
He gave the latest PTA mtg the same line of equine excrement but they were too polite to call him on it.
Just what subjects don't already have an IB class? What did he have in mind AP-Culinary Arts?
It's an illusion to get support for redistricting.
More Later
> Effectively he said he
> would love to add AP classes with the caveat that
> he will not duplicate what he has in IB. The
> classes would have to supplement the IB
> curriculum. He said he would need enough
> "numbers" to justify it.
He gave the latest PTA mtg the same line of equine excrement but they were too polite to call him on it.
Just what subjects don't already have an IB class? What did he have in mind AP-Culinary Arts?
It's an illusion to get support for redistricting.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
tellit
()
Date: October 30, 2007 05:30PM
weliketorapallthetime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't care what color the kids are at any school
> mine would attend. (Actually, any school without
> some diversity makes me uneasy). In my opinion,
> the academic achievement and the well-being of any
> student body lands squarely in one group's lap:
> the parents! Show me a community of parents who
> take an obsessive interest in their children's
> academics, value-system and social well-being, and
> you'll find schools with great test scores, low
> drop-out rates, and safe students. These are the
> families that think and act like me, and with whom
> I want my kids to be educated. These are black,
> white, Asian, Indian, and Korean families. If
> communities are to be redistricted, please send
> the kids of willing families to my school who want
> a better future for their kids. I keep reading
> that some think just the opposite will be a better
> approach...send motivated families kids to
> underachieving schools. How will this help the
> parents of the underachieving kids change their
> ways? This must be some kind of mistake. What
> idiots would take an approach like that?
This post is extremley offensive. you have know idea what the parental involvement at south lakes is like. As a matter of fact the parents at south lakes are extremely active. Take the boys lacrosse team as an example.
Also, to other posters refering to "good families"...who are you to decide what is a "good family". There are more reasons why kids of lower income drop out of school than that their parents don't care if they go or not. There might be a correlation between the two but you are you to judge a family that you don't even know.
I know none of you consider yourselves racist or predjudice but honestly...it comes out in your posts no matter how subconscious it may be.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't care what color the kids are at any school
> mine would attend. (Actually, any school without
> some diversity makes me uneasy). In my opinion,
> the academic achievement and the well-being of any
> student body lands squarely in one group's lap:
> the parents! Show me a community of parents who
> take an obsessive interest in their children's
> academics, value-system and social well-being, and
> you'll find schools with great test scores, low
> drop-out rates, and safe students. These are the
> families that think and act like me, and with whom
> I want my kids to be educated. These are black,
> white, Asian, Indian, and Korean families. If
> communities are to be redistricted, please send
> the kids of willing families to my school who want
> a better future for their kids. I keep reading
> that some think just the opposite will be a better
> approach...send motivated families kids to
> underachieving schools. How will this help the
> parents of the underachieving kids change their
> ways? This must be some kind of mistake. What
> idiots would take an approach like that?
This post is extremley offensive. you have know idea what the parental involvement at south lakes is like. As a matter of fact the parents at south lakes are extremely active. Take the boys lacrosse team as an example.
Also, to other posters refering to "good families"...who are you to decide what is a "good family". There are more reasons why kids of lower income drop out of school than that their parents don't care if they go or not. There might be a correlation between the two but you are you to judge a family that you don't even know.
I know none of you consider yourselves racist or predjudice but honestly...it comes out in your posts no matter how subconscious it may be.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 30, 2007 05:30PM
Regardless of the merits of IB, many will use it an exit strategy to pupil place into AP schools as per county policy. South Lakes is surrounded by AP schools. My take is they better ditch it or run parallel programs until it's phased out.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 30, 2007 05:38PM
Thomas More,
Yes, in this case I do know more. Stu Gibson was endorsed by the democrats in 2003. I posted you a link where the Washington Post said exactly that. Please post a link that refutes the Post. Please google it, you will see that I am correct.
Please ask other democrats, who were around in 2003, if Stu was on the their ticket. I promise. Seriously, I know that I am correct. Ask around. Do you really think that the democrats endorse Stu 3 out the 4 times that he ran? But omit him ONE time? When did they EVER not endorse an incumbent. They wouldn't, and they didn't. Ask around. Or use our friend Mr. Google. Let me know what you find.
Yes, in this case I do know more. Stu Gibson was endorsed by the democrats in 2003. I posted you a link where the Washington Post said exactly that. Please post a link that refutes the Post. Please google it, you will see that I am correct.
Please ask other democrats, who were around in 2003, if Stu was on the their ticket. I promise. Seriously, I know that I am correct. Ask around. Do you really think that the democrats endorse Stu 3 out the 4 times that he ran? But omit him ONE time? When did they EVER not endorse an incumbent. They wouldn't, and they didn't. Ask around. Or use our friend Mr. Google. Let me know what you find.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 06:14PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> McNair has 39% free lunch and 39% limited english.
> The area north of the toll road isn't 39% of
> McNair's district. I agree with Cricket--south of
> the toll road must have some of the 39%. There is
> what is identified as affordable housing there.
> The biggest projects are Jefferson Commons and
> Dulles Center.
>
> The school board should know where the free lunch
> population lives.
Repeating, Dulles Center requires a minimum income of $57,000 to qualify to rent.
Please, drive by the Jefferson Commons, then drive by Stonegate and Sycamores or the townhouses across from the Dubransky baseball field or the duplex houses south of Herndon Parkway and claim they are similar neighborhoods. No rational person would agree with that analysis.
McNair has 520 kids. 39% of that number is 202. Do I believe that most, if not all, of those 202 free lunches live north of the Toll Road. Without question and those kids are already going to HHS.
Please don't confuse 39% of the kids with 39% of the land area.
Does the School Board even aggregate the street addresses of those 202 free lunch kids to be able to tell us whether they live north or south of the Toll Road? If they do, they haven't posted it for the rest of us to see.
The Westfield portion of the McNair attendance area is an upgrade for either Herndon or South Lakes and either would be lucky to have them.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 06:56PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> McNair has 39% free lunch and 39% limited english.
> The area north of the toll road isn't 39% of
> McNair's district. I agree with Cricket--south of
> the toll road must have some of the 39%. There is
> what is identified as affordable housing there.
> The biggest projects are Jefferson Commons and
> Dulles Center.
>
> The school board should know where the free lunch
> population lives.
Repeating, Dulles Center requires a minimum income of $57,000 to qualify to rent.
Please, drive by the Jefferson Commons, then drive by Stonegate and Sycamores or the townhouses across from the Dubransky baseball field or the duplex houses south of Herndon Parkway and claim they are similar neighborhoods. No rational person would agree with that analysis.
McNair has 520 kids. 39% of that number is 202. Do I believe that most, if not all, of those 202 free lunches live north of the Toll Road. Without question and those kids are already going to HHS.
Please don't confuse 39% of the kids with 39% of the land area.
Does the School Board even aggregate the street addresses of those 202 free lunch kids to be able to tell us whether they live north or south of the Toll Road? If they do, they haven't posted it for the rest of us to see.
The Westfield portion of the McNair attendance area is an upgrade for either Herndon or South Lakes and either would be lucky to have them.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 06:56PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 06:18PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Yes, in this case I do know more. Stu Gibson was
> endorsed by the democrats in 2003. I posted you a
> link where the Washington Post said exactly that.
> Please post a link that refutes the Post. Please
> google it, you will see that I am correct.
Stu told the Post that.
> Please ask other democrats, who were around in
> 2003, if Stu was on the their ticket. I promise.
> Seriously, I know that I am correct. Ask around.
> Do you really think that the democrats endorse Stu
> 3 out the 4 times that he ran? But omit him ONE
> time? When did they EVER not endorse an incumbent.
> They wouldn't, and they didn't. Ask around. Or
> use our friend Mr. Google. Let me know what you
> find.
They witheld the endorsement in 2003 because he hadn't gotten rid of Realista.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Yes, in this case I do know more. Stu Gibson was
> endorsed by the democrats in 2003. I posted you a
> link where the Washington Post said exactly that.
> Please post a link that refutes the Post. Please
> google it, you will see that I am correct.
Stu told the Post that.
> Please ask other democrats, who were around in
> 2003, if Stu was on the their ticket. I promise.
> Seriously, I know that I am correct. Ask around.
> Do you really think that the democrats endorse Stu
> 3 out the 4 times that he ran? But omit him ONE
> time? When did they EVER not endorse an incumbent.
> They wouldn't, and they didn't. Ask around. Or
> use our friend Mr. Google. Let me know what you
> find.
They witheld the endorsement in 2003 because he hadn't gotten rid of Realista.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 06:33PM
Thomas More Wrote:
>
> I did just that today, and I saw
>
> Woodland Park a gated townhouse community with
> mercedes and BMW's in the driveways. Archstone at
> Woodland, Villages at Woodland. Expensive brick
> faced townhouse projects and new garden apts of
> similar quality everywhere. Talked to the manager
> of the Sunoco station. No crime. No loitering.
>
Sure Woodland Park is nice. It was a nice day for a stroll. Did you stop at Pei Wei for lunch?
Anyway, regardless of where the 39% Non-English speakers live (I don't think the Alabama Ave. attendance area is large enough for this figure--many of these are SFH--realize that some not all may have multiple families). There are plenty of kids who live with the single, wealthy individuals in those fancy new McNair area apartments and condos. At least 8+ busloads of students head to Westfield from the McNair community everyday.
>
> I did just that today, and I saw
>
> Woodland Park a gated townhouse community with
> mercedes and BMW's in the driveways. Archstone at
> Woodland, Villages at Woodland. Expensive brick
> faced townhouse projects and new garden apts of
> similar quality everywhere. Talked to the manager
> of the Sunoco station. No crime. No loitering.
>
Sure Woodland Park is nice. It was a nice day for a stroll. Did you stop at Pei Wei for lunch?
Anyway, regardless of where the 39% Non-English speakers live (I don't think the Alabama Ave. attendance area is large enough for this figure--many of these are SFH--realize that some not all may have multiple families). There are plenty of kids who live with the single, wealthy individuals in those fancy new McNair area apartments and condos. At least 8+ busloads of students head to Westfield from the McNair community everyday.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 06:51PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure Woodland Park is nice. It was a nice day for
> a stroll. Did you stop at Pei Wei for lunch?
No too early for lunch. I wanted to make sure my memory of the area was accurate. I was wrong it's far more up scale than I remembered.
> Anyway, regardless of where the 39% Non-English
> speakers live (I don't think the Alabama Ave.
> attendance area is large enough for this
> figure--many of these are SFH--realize that some
> not all may have multiple families). There are
> plenty of kids who live with the single, wealthy
> individuals in those fancy new McNair area
> apartments and condos. At least 8+ busloads of
> students head to Westfield from the McNair
> community everyday.
And those eight bus loads going to HHS would certainly make up for the upscale apartments, condos and townhouses in Aldrin.
Would you be surprised if many of those buses were partially empty because the juniors and seniors were driving to Westfield in a nice car Mom or Dad bought them.
They should also be welcome additions to SL but I want Aldrin for the reasons already stated ad naseum.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure Woodland Park is nice. It was a nice day for
> a stroll. Did you stop at Pei Wei for lunch?
No too early for lunch. I wanted to make sure my memory of the area was accurate. I was wrong it's far more up scale than I remembered.
> Anyway, regardless of where the 39% Non-English
> speakers live (I don't think the Alabama Ave.
> attendance area is large enough for this
> figure--many of these are SFH--realize that some
> not all may have multiple families). There are
> plenty of kids who live with the single, wealthy
> individuals in those fancy new McNair area
> apartments and condos. At least 8+ busloads of
> students head to Westfield from the McNair
> community everyday.
And those eight bus loads going to HHS would certainly make up for the upscale apartments, condos and townhouses in Aldrin.
Would you be surprised if many of those buses were partially empty because the juniors and seniors were driving to Westfield in a nice car Mom or Dad bought them.
They should also be welcome additions to SL but I want Aldrin for the reasons already stated ad naseum.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 30, 2007 07:01PM
Word - again you are on point. Why posit as to the merits of the IB program when it may be irrelevant. If there is not an AP program, people will - I can flat out guarantee it - pupil place to an AP school. So any redistricting would be for naught. I cannot believe that the school system would not anticipate this - so I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. The worst thing would be to have a feeble AP program merely designed to frustrate pupil placement. Need I say that some in the system would consider doing just that?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:06PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The worst thing would
> be to have a feeble AP program merely designed to
> frustrate pupil placement. Need I say that some
> in the system would consider doing just that?
That's exactly what will happen.
With Butler's sophistry about only adding AP classes that are not redundant of the IB program, there will be extremely few AP classes at South Lakes.
A child can pupil place to an AP high school only if there is room at the AP high school. Do folks really think there will be 500-700 places at AP high schools to pupil place all the transferees?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> The worst thing would
> be to have a feeble AP program merely designed to
> frustrate pupil placement. Need I say that some
> in the system would consider doing just that?
That's exactly what will happen.
With Butler's sophistry about only adding AP classes that are not redundant of the IB program, there will be extremely few AP classes at South Lakes.
A child can pupil place to an AP high school only if there is room at the AP high school. Do folks really think there will be 500-700 places at AP high schools to pupil place all the transferees?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting - AP @SLHS
Posted by:
truth seeker
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:12PM
News flash**** just because Butler says he will add, does not mean it will get done. It takes more juice than just BB to decide what curriculum will be added to a high school. AP can not be added for at least 2009 due to teacher requirements, program establishments and guidlines oh yea and $$$$$$$$$ to pay the under paid teachers that don't want to currently work at SLHS
Re: high school redistricting - AP @SLHS
Posted by:
Curious George
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:15PM
Did everyone in the kathy smith area get her flyer full of lies today? A little to late kathy to try and muster a vote up now you are done. you have said you are for redistricting and your opponent is not. Join another favorite (NOT) democrat for breakfast and order more waffles. Oh and wear your FLIP FLOPS
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:16PM
Can someone provide a link to documents regarding the last redistricting? I would like to understand why the Oakton boundaries protrude so far towards Herndon (resulting, for example, in students on Mansway Drive traveling 12 miles to school at Oakton when South Lakes is only 4 miles away), and why there is a Monroe island.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:18PM
Apparently, Stu sent out hate flyers today about Arakelian. Guess he and Kathy cooked this idea up together...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:20PM
Thomas More - I concur that pupil placement will take place only if there is "room" at the "other" school. But the statistics reflect only minimal overcrowding at most schools, soon to be none at all everywhere. It strikes me that even with a modest amount acceding to the forced march at South Lakes, there would still be room at the inn, so to speak, at the AP schools. But I also suspect sophistry - because the system may redefine what numbers make for a "full" school - and tempt those to litigate against an arbitrary action. The peril the system runs in doing this is a loss of credibility, making the whole redistricting exercise be even more a manifest exercise in test score management than it appears to be.
Neen - by the way - I disagree with the NCLB - not because I think it is a bad idea - it makes sense in concept - too many children are indeed locked into dead end schools - but rather my confidence in the federal government to make any significant impact on education is limited. NCLB if any anything has energized a teachers union laden bureaucracy to find creative ways to dodge reporting and accountability with respect to the law. Look at the fuss Fairfax put up when forced to include certain populations into their scoring profile that they did not want for fear of not looking "good". Likely a staff of 15 studied that issue. Local schools, with parents and teachers dedicated to excellence and educational fundamentals provide for a simple, unassailable formula - we ought to abide by this principle as an overriding guidepost. So any disagreement we have likely is not in theory, but in the cynical weight I impute to federal educational involvement - perhaps too much so.
Neen - by the way - I disagree with the NCLB - not because I think it is a bad idea - it makes sense in concept - too many children are indeed locked into dead end schools - but rather my confidence in the federal government to make any significant impact on education is limited. NCLB if any anything has energized a teachers union laden bureaucracy to find creative ways to dodge reporting and accountability with respect to the law. Look at the fuss Fairfax put up when forced to include certain populations into their scoring profile that they did not want for fear of not looking "good". Likely a staff of 15 studied that issue. Local schools, with parents and teachers dedicated to excellence and educational fundamentals provide for a simple, unassailable formula - we ought to abide by this principle as an overriding guidepost. So any disagreement we have likely is not in theory, but in the cynical weight I impute to federal educational involvement - perhaps too much so.
Re: high school redistricting - AP @SLHS
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:23PM
Not all will seek pupil placement, just the best... maybe the top half. Spread that out over Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Westfield, Chantilly and the load is not that great.
Why not just start an AP program and show some good faith. These new students will be sent by fiat, not by choice. Throw them a bone.
Why not just start an AP program and show some good faith. These new students will be sent by fiat, not by choice. Throw them a bone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word up
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:30PM
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone provide a link to documents regarding
> the last redistricting? I would like to
> understand why the Oakton boundaries protrude so
> far towards Herndon (resulting, for example, in
> students on Mansway Drive traveling 12 miles to
> school at Oakton when South Lakes is only 4 miles
> away), and why there is a Monroe island.
>
> Thanks!
4 miles 12 miles who cares, thats what the bus driver get paid for. They make need to work also.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone provide a link to documents regarding
> the last redistricting? I would like to
> understand why the Oakton boundaries protrude so
> far towards Herndon (resulting, for example, in
> students on Mansway Drive traveling 12 miles to
> school at Oakton when South Lakes is only 4 miles
> away), and why there is a Monroe island.
>
> Thanks!
4 miles 12 miles who cares, thats what the bus driver get paid for. They make need to work also.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:31PM
Word - you are absolutely correct. I have been asserting the same continuously. It baffles me why this would not be considered. Maybe some at South Lakes have a far more profound understanding of teacher limitations at South Lakes than they are willing to let on.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:42PM
agree quantum - South Lakes should pick their battles and this is not one of them
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:44PM
McNair just got a renovation. They have a large band room now.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another Parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:46PM
word up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can someone provide a link to documents
> regarding
> > the last redistricting? I would like to
> > understand why the Oakton boundaries protrude
> so
> > far towards Herndon (resulting, for example, in
> > students on Mansway Drive traveling 12 miles to
> > school at Oakton when South Lakes is only 4
> miles
> > away), and why there is a Monroe island.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
> 4 miles 12 miles who cares, thats what the bus
> driver get paid for. They make need to work also.
That has to be the worst argument I ever heard! Let's make kids go to schools far away in order to employ bus drivers. Wow.
What it really does is make our children have to get up incredibly early to catch a bus to get them to school on time. It also mean that on days without late bus I have to drive 40 minutes to pick up my kid.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can someone provide a link to documents
> regarding
> > the last redistricting? I would like to
> > understand why the Oakton boundaries protrude
> so
> > far towards Herndon (resulting, for example, in
> > students on Mansway Drive traveling 12 miles to
> > school at Oakton when South Lakes is only 4
> miles
> > away), and why there is a Monroe island.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
> 4 miles 12 miles who cares, thats what the bus
> driver get paid for. They make need to work also.
That has to be the worst argument I ever heard! Let's make kids go to schools far away in order to employ bus drivers. Wow.
What it really does is make our children have to get up incredibly early to catch a bus to get them to school on time. It also mean that on days without late bus I have to drive 40 minutes to pick up my kid.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:53PM
To the Concerned and Another and Whatever Parents...
see the previous posts, we've been over why Oakton pulls from the west ad nauseum.
see the previous posts, we've been over why Oakton pulls from the west ad nauseum.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 08:59PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the Concerned and Another and Whatever
> Parents...
>
> see the previous posts, we've been over why Oakton
> pulls from the west ad nauseum.
I think the presence of folks who are complaining about long bus drives proves my point that there are people out there for whom this is a significant concern, and would consider going to South Lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the Concerned and Another and Whatever
> Parents...
>
> see the previous posts, we've been over why Oakton
> pulls from the west ad nauseum.
I think the presence of folks who are complaining about long bus drives proves my point that there are people out there for whom this is a significant concern, and would consider going to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:07PM
Perhaps there are a few concerned about that. (I really question the integrity of these anonymous complainers).
I can tell you for certain that the previous results posted concerning the Franklin Farm community (1%-3%) would choose South Lakes are accurate. Personally, I know of no one that wants to switch high schools.
I can tell you for certain that the previous results posted concerning the Franklin Farm community (1%-3%) would choose South Lakes are accurate. Personally, I know of no one that wants to switch high schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:13PM
As stated previously, Franklin Farm doesn't travel long distances to their current school, and they are further from South Lakes, so their responses are to be expected. Fox Mill and Crossfield are a different story. Personally, I know several people who have told me directly they would prefer South Lakes.
Why do you think this is not a legitimate concern? It would be a concern to me, I know, if I lived so far from the school. Kids have to get up early enough without having a 40 minute bus ride.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 09:15PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Why do you think this is not a legitimate concern? It would be a concern to me, I know, if I lived so far from the school. Kids have to get up early enough without having a 40 minute bus ride.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 09:15PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:23PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe some at
> South Lakes have a far more profound understanding
> of teacher limitations at South Lakes than they
> are willing to let on.
Only the Butler pets and Gibson partisans on the PTA board would deny the disfunctional state of the instructional staff that Realista left us.
A former math teacher who has since left SL told me, when IB came in, that the parallel IB course covered less material than the AP course he had taught for several years at SL. He also didn't like that it demanded more home work/make work from the students.
Maybe your hypothesis is right. Maybe IB was brought by Webb in to cover for a cheaper, less experience, less qualified staff.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 09:41PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe some at
> South Lakes have a far more profound understanding
> of teacher limitations at South Lakes than they
> are willing to let on.
Only the Butler pets and Gibson partisans on the PTA board would deny the disfunctional state of the instructional staff that Realista left us.
A former math teacher who has since left SL told me, when IB came in, that the parallel IB course covered less material than the AP course he had taught for several years at SL. He also didn't like that it demanded more home work/make work from the students.
Maybe your hypothesis is right. Maybe IB was brought by Webb in to cover for a cheaper, less experience, less qualified staff.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 09:41PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:39PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
>> No too early for lunch. I wanted to make sure my
> memory of the area was accurate. I was wrong it's
> far more up scale than I remembered.
> >
> Thomas More Wrote:
And those eight bus loads going to HHS would
> certainly make up for the upscale apartments,
> condos and townhouses in Aldrin.
>
> Would you be surprised if many of those buses were
> partially empty because the juniors and seniors
> were driving to Westfield in a nice car Mom or Dad
> bought them.
>
> They should also be welcome additions to SL but I
> want Aldrin for the reasons already stated ad
> naseum.
and, Thomas More Wrote:
The vast majority of those multi-family unit are expensive and aimed at
> singles and couples without kids. Not a very
> large percentage of those units will ever have
> children. Average number of kids per multi-family
> housing unit just don't support this presumption.
>
Thomas More Wrote:
> 1) Multis don't generate lots of highs school aged
> kids, Less that one for every two units.
So you are saying that all these upscale singles and couples without kids are sending their Juniors and Seniors to Westfield in the nice cars that were bought for them, by I guess, the singles or couples? (or maybe the Moms and/or Dads that you claim don't live there?) Thus sending 8 half-full buses all the way to Westfield at taxpayer expense, but we know all schools have this problem. I suppose your morning walk wasn't at high school bus pick-up time but now I am wondering...are these same singles and couples without kids packing their children's lunches? What a sweeeet deal. Or maybe these Juniors and Seniors are the upscale singles and couples without kids. That would be even sweeeeeeter living in such nice upscale communities all by themselves. These kids would do well wherever.
-------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
>> No too early for lunch. I wanted to make sure my
> memory of the area was accurate. I was wrong it's
> far more up scale than I remembered.
> >
> Thomas More Wrote:
And those eight bus loads going to HHS would
> certainly make up for the upscale apartments,
> condos and townhouses in Aldrin.
>
> Would you be surprised if many of those buses were
> partially empty because the juniors and seniors
> were driving to Westfield in a nice car Mom or Dad
> bought them.
>
> They should also be welcome additions to SL but I
> want Aldrin for the reasons already stated ad
> naseum.
and, Thomas More Wrote:
The vast majority of those multi-family unit are expensive and aimed at
> singles and couples without kids. Not a very
> large percentage of those units will ever have
> children. Average number of kids per multi-family
> housing unit just don't support this presumption.
>
Thomas More Wrote:
> 1) Multis don't generate lots of highs school aged
> kids, Less that one for every two units.
So you are saying that all these upscale singles and couples without kids are sending their Juniors and Seniors to Westfield in the nice cars that were bought for them, by I guess, the singles or couples? (or maybe the Moms and/or Dads that you claim don't live there?) Thus sending 8 half-full buses all the way to Westfield at taxpayer expense, but we know all schools have this problem. I suppose your morning walk wasn't at high school bus pick-up time but now I am wondering...are these same singles and couples without kids packing their children's lunches? What a sweeeet deal. Or maybe these Juniors and Seniors are the upscale singles and couples without kids. That would be even sweeeeeeter living in such nice upscale communities all by themselves. These kids would do well wherever.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:41PM
deleted an OBE question here. sorry
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 09:45PM by Cricket.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 09:45PM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:41PM
SLPP
It's a legitimate concern, but it's not a popular one.
Crossfield is Franklin Farm and adjoining neighborhoods along west ox. That is where most Crossfield students live. (also there are some along lawyers/folkstone but not many)
Concerning the Franklin Farm poll (Oakton Section 3% preferred South Lakes), the Oakton families polled attend Crossfield.
I have not see a Fox Mill poll to date.
It's a legitimate concern, but it's not a popular one.
Crossfield is Franklin Farm and adjoining neighborhoods along west ox. That is where most Crossfield students live. (also there are some along lawyers/folkstone but not many)
Concerning the Franklin Farm poll (Oakton Section 3% preferred South Lakes), the Oakton families polled attend Crossfield.
I have not see a Fox Mill poll to date.
Re: high school redistricting - AP @SLHS
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:43PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not all will seek pupil placement, just the
> best... maybe the top half. Spread that out over
> Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Westfield, Chantilly and
> the load is not that great.
>
> Why not just start an AP program and show some
> good faith. These new students will be sent by
> fiat, not by choice. Throw them a bone.
And since most of these schools are not really overcrowded or they have declining enrollments, they can absorb quite a few pupil placements.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not all will seek pupil placement, just the
> best... maybe the top half. Spread that out over
> Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Westfield, Chantilly and
> the load is not that great.
>
> Why not just start an AP program and show some
> good faith. These new students will be sent by
> fiat, not by choice. Throw them a bone.
And since most of these schools are not really overcrowded or they have declining enrollments, they can absorb quite a few pupil placements.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 30, 2007 09:56PM
I am bit confused about one thing. Even the fairly strident South Lakes supporters believe that the prior principal really had problems, and by any measure harming the school. I have intuited this conclusion across the "political" spectrum reflected by the posters here, an indication that it is far from anecdotal and approaching the universal. Why, then, was the situation allowed to continue for so long - in other words, why was nothing done after a year or two? I ask this because it does not support the assertion of South Lakes supporters that parents are involved with the school. Truly involved parents would have demanded - no, metaphorically knocked the doors down - to bring about change. Now, I don't have the facts, so they may have indeed done just that - with the bureaucracy being more intransigent than is typical. But again, how could this state of affairs gone on so long? An undesirable principal would not last long at Oakton, and would last for 5 minutes at TJ. Can anyone explain? Because it appears to an observer that the prior principal was not relieved out of any particular hue and cry, but rather as a form of necessity to prepare for an influx of more demanding students (and their parents) that the system knew would not stand for the level of incompetence. And I am seeking reasonable explanations, not mere defensiveness - the issue baffles me.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:09PM
Cricket Wrote:
------------
> So you are saying that all these upscale singles
> and couples without kids are sending their Juniors
> and Seniors to Westfield in the nice cars that
> were bought for them, by I guess, the singles or
> couples? (or maybe the Moms and/or Dads that you
> claim don't live there?) Thus sending 8 half-full
> buses all the way to Westfield at taxpayer
> expense, but we know all schools have this
> problem.
Many schools do have this problem. Ask parents at a few highs school how easy it is to get a parking pass for their kids. A few schools have a lottery.
Not at SL where the student parking lot isn't full most days (even after it's been relocated to the smaller space to make way for the construction storage trailers and material/equipment storage areas) .
> I suppose your morning walk wasn't at
> high school bus pick-up time but now I am
> wondering...are these same singles and couples
> without kids packing their children's lunches?
> What a sweeeet deal. Or maybe these Juniors and
> Seniors are the upscale singles and couples
> without kids. That would be even sweeeeeeter
> living in such nice upscale communities all by
> themselves. These kids would do well wherever.
Given the number of dwelling units in that area, if they had the same ratio of kids as SFDs, you'd need alot more than 8 buses, How many high school kids fit in regular size school bus?
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 11:02PM by Thomas More.
------------
> So you are saying that all these upscale singles
> and couples without kids are sending their Juniors
> and Seniors to Westfield in the nice cars that
> were bought for them, by I guess, the singles or
> couples? (or maybe the Moms and/or Dads that you
> claim don't live there?) Thus sending 8 half-full
> buses all the way to Westfield at taxpayer
> expense, but we know all schools have this
> problem.
Many schools do have this problem. Ask parents at a few highs school how easy it is to get a parking pass for their kids. A few schools have a lottery.
Not at SL where the student parking lot isn't full most days (even after it's been relocated to the smaller space to make way for the construction storage trailers and material/equipment storage areas) .
> I suppose your morning walk wasn't at
> high school bus pick-up time but now I am
> wondering...are these same singles and couples
> without kids packing their children's lunches?
> What a sweeeet deal. Or maybe these Juniors and
> Seniors are the upscale singles and couples
> without kids. That would be even sweeeeeeter
> living in such nice upscale communities all by
> themselves. These kids would do well wherever.
Given the number of dwelling units in that area, if they had the same ratio of kids as SFDs, you'd need alot more than 8 buses, How many high school kids fit in regular size school bus?
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 11:02PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:09PM
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone provide a link to documents regarding
> the last redistricting? I would like to
> understand why the Oakton boundaries protrude so
> far towards Herndon (resulting, for example, in
> students on Mansway Drive traveling 12 miles to
> school at Oakton when South Lakes is only 4 miles
> away), and why there is a Monroe island.
>
> Thanks!
The boundaries use to extend even further out to 28. Most of the west part of the county was not developed when the boundaries were determined. I think other people here have already answered this question, though. But again, take a look at the proximity of Madison, Oakton, Fairfax and Woodson. And the monroe island is where
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone provide a link to documents regarding
> the last redistricting? I would like to
> understand why the Oakton boundaries protrude so
> far towards Herndon (resulting, for example, in
> students on Mansway Drive traveling 12 miles to
> school at Oakton when South Lakes is only 4 miles
> away), and why there is a Monroe island.
>
> Thanks!
The boundaries use to extend even further out to 28. Most of the west part of the county was not developed when the boundaries were determined. I think other people here have already answered this question, though. But again, take a look at the proximity of Madison, Oakton, Fairfax and Woodson. And the monroe island is where
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:23PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> ------------
> > So you are saying that all these upscale
> singles
> > and couples without kids are sending their
> Juniors
> > and Seniors to Westfield in the nice cars that
> > were bought for them, by I guess, the singles
> or
> > couples? (or maybe the Moms and/or Dads that
> you
> > claim don't live there?) Thus sending 8
> half-full
> > buses all the way to Westfield at taxpayer
> > expense, but we know all schools have this
> > problem.
>
> Many schools do have this problem. Ask parents at
> a few highs school how easy it is to get a parking
> pass for their kids. A few schools have a
> lottery.
>
> Not at SL where the student parking lot isn't full
> most days (even after it's been relocated to the
> smaller space to make way for the construction
> storage trailers and material/equipment storage
> areas) .
>
> > I suppose your morning walk wasn't at
> > high school bus pick-up time but now I am
> > wondering...are these same singles and couples
> > without kids packing their children's lunches?
> > What a sweeeet deal. Or maybe these Juniors and
> > Seniors are the upscale singles and couples
> > without kids. That would be even sweeeeeeter
> > living in such nice upscale communities all by
> > themselves. These kids would do well wherever.
>
> Given the number of dwelling units in that area,
> if they had the same ratio of kids as SFDs, you'd
> need alot more than 8 buses, How many high school
> kids fit in regular size school?
Don't know what's a regular size school? But it doesn't matter. If we were to listen to you, there should be no kids in these dwellings because they don't fall into the developers' demographics. You are convinced you are right and that is ok by me. And if you are not, well, there should be plenty of room at SLHS for all the fine fancy cars that depart the McNair neighborhood every morning at 6:30 am.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> ------------
> > So you are saying that all these upscale
> singles
> > and couples without kids are sending their
> Juniors
> > and Seniors to Westfield in the nice cars that
> > were bought for them, by I guess, the singles
> or
> > couples? (or maybe the Moms and/or Dads that
> you
> > claim don't live there?) Thus sending 8
> half-full
> > buses all the way to Westfield at taxpayer
> > expense, but we know all schools have this
> > problem.
>
> Many schools do have this problem. Ask parents at
> a few highs school how easy it is to get a parking
> pass for their kids. A few schools have a
> lottery.
>
> Not at SL where the student parking lot isn't full
> most days (even after it's been relocated to the
> smaller space to make way for the construction
> storage trailers and material/equipment storage
> areas) .
>
> > I suppose your morning walk wasn't at
> > high school bus pick-up time but now I am
> > wondering...are these same singles and couples
> > without kids packing their children's lunches?
> > What a sweeeet deal. Or maybe these Juniors and
> > Seniors are the upscale singles and couples
> > without kids. That would be even sweeeeeeter
> > living in such nice upscale communities all by
> > themselves. These kids would do well wherever.
>
> Given the number of dwelling units in that area,
> if they had the same ratio of kids as SFDs, you'd
> need alot more than 8 buses, How many high school
> kids fit in regular size school?
Don't know what's a regular size school? But it doesn't matter. If we were to listen to you, there should be no kids in these dwellings because they don't fall into the developers' demographics. You are convinced you are right and that is ok by me. And if you are not, well, there should be plenty of room at SLHS for all the fine fancy cars that depart the McNair neighborhood every morning at 6:30 am.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:24PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am bit confused about one thing. Even the
> fairly strident South Lakes supporters believe
> that the prior principal really had problems, and
> by any measure harming the school. I have
> intuited this conclusion across the "political"
> spectrum reflected by the posters here, an
> indication that it is far from anecdotal and
> approaching the universal. Why, then, was the
> situation allowed to continue for so long - in
> other words, why was nothing done after a year or
> two? I ask this because it does not support the
> assertion of South Lakes supporters that parents
> are involved with the school. Truly involved
> parents would have demanded - no, metaphorically
> knocked the doors down - to bring about change.
> Now, I don't have the facts, so they may have
> indeed done just that - with the bureaucracy being
> more intransigent than is typical. But again, how
> could this state of affairs gone on so long? An
> undesirable principal would not last long at
> Oakton, and would last for 5 minutes at TJ. Can
> anyone explain? Because it appears to an observer
> that the prior principal was not relieved out of
> any particular hue and cry, but rather as a form
> of necessity to prepare for an influx of more
> demanding students (and their parents) that the
> system knew would not stand for the level of
> incompetence. And I am seeking reasonable
> explanations, not mere defensiveness - the issue
> baffles me.
I cannot tell you how many times I talked to Domenech, Webb and Gibson about Realista. For years, Gibson refused to talk about her because it was a "personnel" issue and he didn't get involved in personnel issues. The frustration with the refusal to make a change was infuriating. Were they afraid of a discrimination suit by one of the few female minority principals? Were they waiting for her to retire? During her last several years she was double dipping, getting her salary and her retirement check. We were constantly being reminded that there were a shortage of principals. Were they waiting for a job to open up or be created to give her a promotion that was really a firing? Did the withholding of the Democratic endorsement from Gibson in 2003 finally get the message across? There actually were a few folks, and still are, people who spoke favorably about her.
I can't explain it.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 10:45PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am bit confused about one thing. Even the
> fairly strident South Lakes supporters believe
> that the prior principal really had problems, and
> by any measure harming the school. I have
> intuited this conclusion across the "political"
> spectrum reflected by the posters here, an
> indication that it is far from anecdotal and
> approaching the universal. Why, then, was the
> situation allowed to continue for so long - in
> other words, why was nothing done after a year or
> two? I ask this because it does not support the
> assertion of South Lakes supporters that parents
> are involved with the school. Truly involved
> parents would have demanded - no, metaphorically
> knocked the doors down - to bring about change.
> Now, I don't have the facts, so they may have
> indeed done just that - with the bureaucracy being
> more intransigent than is typical. But again, how
> could this state of affairs gone on so long? An
> undesirable principal would not last long at
> Oakton, and would last for 5 minutes at TJ. Can
> anyone explain? Because it appears to an observer
> that the prior principal was not relieved out of
> any particular hue and cry, but rather as a form
> of necessity to prepare for an influx of more
> demanding students (and their parents) that the
> system knew would not stand for the level of
> incompetence. And I am seeking reasonable
> explanations, not mere defensiveness - the issue
> baffles me.
I cannot tell you how many times I talked to Domenech, Webb and Gibson about Realista. For years, Gibson refused to talk about her because it was a "personnel" issue and he didn't get involved in personnel issues. The frustration with the refusal to make a change was infuriating. Were they afraid of a discrimination suit by one of the few female minority principals? Were they waiting for her to retire? During her last several years she was double dipping, getting her salary and her retirement check. We were constantly being reminded that there were a shortage of principals. Were they waiting for a job to open up or be created to give her a promotion that was really a firing? Did the withholding of the Democratic endorsement from Gibson in 2003 finally get the message across? There actually were a few folks, and still are, people who spoke favorably about her.
I can't explain it.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2007 10:45PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:25PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I have not see a Fox Mill poll to date.
don't think there is one. Many of the people at Fox Mill are convinced that everything has already been settled and they are going to SLHS. So maybe if all are fine with that, there need be no poll.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I have not see a Fox Mill poll to date.
don't think there is one. Many of the people at Fox Mill are convinced that everything has already been settled and they are going to SLHS. So maybe if all are fine with that, there need be no poll.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:44PM
Cricket Wrote:
> Don't know what's a regular size school? But it
> doesn't matter. If we were to listen to you,
> there should be no kids in these dwellings
No one made that argument. The argument made was more subtle, maybe too subtle for you. The argument made was that when compared to SFD neighborhoods, apartments and townhouses have a much lower ratio of kids per dwelling unit. Don't believe me, ask the School Department, ask the County Zoning staff. Ask any demographer.
More Later
> Don't know what's a regular size school? But it
> doesn't matter. If we were to listen to you,
> there should be no kids in these dwellings
No one made that argument. The argument made was more subtle, maybe too subtle for you. The argument made was that when compared to SFD neighborhoods, apartments and townhouses have a much lower ratio of kids per dwelling unit. Don't believe me, ask the School Department, ask the County Zoning staff. Ask any demographer.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 10:55PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum,
> I agree with everything you say, your posts are
> fabulous. On NCLB we disagree. It is not driving
> these changes, rather the liberals are using it as
> an excuse to do their desired social engineering.
> If the democrats continue to dominate our school
> board I expect that in the next 4 years we will
> see ALL of our high schools redistricted to meet
> their social engineering goals. Of course there
> is ZERO evidence that putting a smart, hard
> working, Asian child in a class next to a an under
> achieving Black child, improves the education of
> either. NONE. Typical of the democrats, they
> refuse to believe that, because they FEEL it
> SHOULD work, much as they FEEL about Whole
> Language, and ever fuzzier math, and the wonderful
> 'open schools' that they built in the 1970's and
> 1980's that gave us South Lakes, with no outside
> windows and no interior doors.
>
> Don't they ever get sick of being wrong?
Thankfully Neen, we will now have outside windows and interior doors. BTW, no outside windows were a result of the energy crisis, not liberal open school philosophy.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum,
> I agree with everything you say, your posts are
> fabulous. On NCLB we disagree. It is not driving
> these changes, rather the liberals are using it as
> an excuse to do their desired social engineering.
> If the democrats continue to dominate our school
> board I expect that in the next 4 years we will
> see ALL of our high schools redistricted to meet
> their social engineering goals. Of course there
> is ZERO evidence that putting a smart, hard
> working, Asian child in a class next to a an under
> achieving Black child, improves the education of
> either. NONE. Typical of the democrats, they
> refuse to believe that, because they FEEL it
> SHOULD work, much as they FEEL about Whole
> Language, and ever fuzzier math, and the wonderful
> 'open schools' that they built in the 1970's and
> 1980's that gave us South Lakes, with no outside
> windows and no interior doors.
>
> Don't they ever get sick of being wrong?
Thankfully Neen, we will now have outside windows and interior doors. BTW, no outside windows were a result of the energy crisis, not liberal open school philosophy.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:09PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Comments on sl verity's comments - you grossly
> oversimplify and are missing the key points behind
> parent's concerns...speaking of terms of good
> versus bad - your terms - evinces a lack of regard
> for the facts and a concern for the 'right"
> thoughtful way to do things, irrespective of the
> result that may be reached. See the comments
> below
>
>
Quantum, you are entirely correct. I was oversimplifying, but only to make a point and to exhibit my frustration with some of the misinformed comments being posted. As to your comment about there not being concerned parents at SL, just who do you think those of us posting on this forum are? My children aren't even in the school system anymore, and I am still interested in the outcome of this debate, precisely because I care and have always cared about my community, my childrens' education, and the education of younger children in my community.
I'd like to comment on the following statement from you:
SOUTH LAKES IS NOT "BAD", BUT IT DOES HAVE RISK FACTORS, AND A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION SEGMENT THAT HAS LITTLE IN COMMON IN TERMS OF ACADEMIC NEEDS OR FOCUS WITH THE AVERAGE STUDENT AT OAKTON, MADISON, AND THE LIKE.
Do you not see some commonality with SL parents posting here. I sincerely hope that you do, because if you can't see that we care as ardently about our children's education as the parents of Madison, Oakton, and the like, then there is no hope for comity in this debate.
ALL OF THESE FACTORS PROVIDE FOR A SENSE OF ANXIETY - AND OVERCOMING THAT ANXIETY MEANS THAT SOUTH LAKES MUST, IN MY VIEW, ASSIDUOUSLY WORK TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE TRANSFEROR STUDENTS TO MAKE THE TRANSFER WORK? NOT NECESSARY, YOU SAY? WELL, IF SOUTH LAKES DOESN'T, THEY WON'T GET THE STUDENTS, IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY FORCED MARCH FOISTED UPON THE AFFECTED FAMILIES. NO FORCE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN SUBURBAN PARENTS ON A MISSION TO PRESERVE THEIR KIDS FUTURE. BLUNTLY PUT, SOUTH LAKES MUST PUT FORTH A SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO MAKE IT WORK, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
South Lakes does very well with its middle class students. In fact, I would wager just as well as Oakton or Madison. It is not fair to look at the school-wide test results without considering the results for students like yours. Otherwise, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Consider that if we add 500-700 students from middle class families, the demographics, test results, etc., will all change dramatically. Also, please know that we very much want to welcome students and their families and have already put many things in play to make the transition very successful, including discussing adding AP classes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Comments on sl verity's comments - you grossly
> oversimplify and are missing the key points behind
> parent's concerns...speaking of terms of good
> versus bad - your terms - evinces a lack of regard
> for the facts and a concern for the 'right"
> thoughtful way to do things, irrespective of the
> result that may be reached. See the comments
> below
>
>
Quantum, you are entirely correct. I was oversimplifying, but only to make a point and to exhibit my frustration with some of the misinformed comments being posted. As to your comment about there not being concerned parents at SL, just who do you think those of us posting on this forum are? My children aren't even in the school system anymore, and I am still interested in the outcome of this debate, precisely because I care and have always cared about my community, my childrens' education, and the education of younger children in my community.
I'd like to comment on the following statement from you:
SOUTH LAKES IS NOT "BAD", BUT IT DOES HAVE RISK FACTORS, AND A SIGNIFICANT POPULATION SEGMENT THAT HAS LITTLE IN COMMON IN TERMS OF ACADEMIC NEEDS OR FOCUS WITH THE AVERAGE STUDENT AT OAKTON, MADISON, AND THE LIKE.
Do you not see some commonality with SL parents posting here. I sincerely hope that you do, because if you can't see that we care as ardently about our children's education as the parents of Madison, Oakton, and the like, then there is no hope for comity in this debate.
ALL OF THESE FACTORS PROVIDE FOR A SENSE OF ANXIETY - AND OVERCOMING THAT ANXIETY MEANS THAT SOUTH LAKES MUST, IN MY VIEW, ASSIDUOUSLY WORK TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE TRANSFEROR STUDENTS TO MAKE THE TRANSFER WORK? NOT NECESSARY, YOU SAY? WELL, IF SOUTH LAKES DOESN'T, THEY WON'T GET THE STUDENTS, IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY FORCED MARCH FOISTED UPON THE AFFECTED FAMILIES. NO FORCE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN SUBURBAN PARENTS ON A MISSION TO PRESERVE THEIR KIDS FUTURE. BLUNTLY PUT, SOUTH LAKES MUST PUT FORTH A SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO MAKE IT WORK, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.
South Lakes does very well with its middle class students. In fact, I would wager just as well as Oakton or Madison. It is not fair to look at the school-wide test results without considering the results for students like yours. Otherwise, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Consider that if we add 500-700 students from middle class families, the demographics, test results, etc., will all change dramatically. Also, please know that we very much want to welcome students and their families and have already put many things in play to make the transition very successful, including discussing adding AP classes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:12PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't
> believe me, ask the School Department, ask the
> County Zoning staff. Ask any demographer.
Well, I was really just responding to what you wrote. I don't really need to consult anyone else. I understand that the lower-kid-ratio is what one would think. But not really around here. However, developers make good use of this illusion for their marketing materials. These folks you wish me to consult are the same folks that grossly miscalculated the enrollment for McNair--that is why it was already overcrowded when it opened. If these folks were a little bit more realistic, there would be no need for additions to McNair or to open a Coppermine. And oh yeah, you are not nearly as subtle as you imagine yourself. But its fun reading how you believe it so.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't
> believe me, ask the School Department, ask the
> County Zoning staff. Ask any demographer.
Well, I was really just responding to what you wrote. I don't really need to consult anyone else. I understand that the lower-kid-ratio is what one would think. But not really around here. However, developers make good use of this illusion for their marketing materials. These folks you wish me to consult are the same folks that grossly miscalculated the enrollment for McNair--that is why it was already overcrowded when it opened. If these folks were a little bit more realistic, there would be no need for additions to McNair or to open a Coppermine. And oh yeah, you are not nearly as subtle as you imagine yourself. But its fun reading how you believe it so.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:13PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLverity,
> I suggest you give Christine a second look.
> Listen to her now, or call her on the phone. I
> think you'll be impressed. I totally agree that
> in the beginning she spoke too much about her own
> problems with her son in FCPS. Now she's much
> more focused on the community and what the schools
> need, particularly the low performing schools.
> She's seen the stats, she knows what has happened
> and what needs to be fixed. She's more than
> willing to listen to the community, something that
> voters haven't had in Hunter Mill for 12 years.
>
> Stu could have changed things in Reston schools.
> He had 12 years to get real reading programs, real
> math programs, programs that have worked in 11
> other districts in Virginia, and other parts of
> FCPS. He did nothing, because of ideology. His
> ideology came first, over the needs of students in
> his district. The results speak for themselves
> when we see other low income schools over coming
> their problems while Dogwood and McNair remain on
> the bottom.
I promise to give her a second look, but I don't like hearing that she does what appears to pandering depending on the group she is engaging at the time.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLverity,
> I suggest you give Christine a second look.
> Listen to her now, or call her on the phone. I
> think you'll be impressed. I totally agree that
> in the beginning she spoke too much about her own
> problems with her son in FCPS. Now she's much
> more focused on the community and what the schools
> need, particularly the low performing schools.
> She's seen the stats, she knows what has happened
> and what needs to be fixed. She's more than
> willing to listen to the community, something that
> voters haven't had in Hunter Mill for 12 years.
>
> Stu could have changed things in Reston schools.
> He had 12 years to get real reading programs, real
> math programs, programs that have worked in 11
> other districts in Virginia, and other parts of
> FCPS. He did nothing, because of ideology. His
> ideology came first, over the needs of students in
> his district. The results speak for themselves
> when we see other low income schools over coming
> their problems while Dogwood and McNair remain on
> the bottom.
I promise to give her a second look, but I don't like hearing that she does what appears to pandering depending on the group she is engaging at the time.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:16PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> > > a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> > > Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals
> the
> > > same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe
> that
> > > the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> > > McNair's non-English demographic. It can't
> be.
>
> I did just that today, and I saw
>
> Woodland Park a gated townhouse community with
> mercedes and BMW's in the driveways. Archstone at
> Woodland, Villages at Woodland. Expensive brick
> faced townhouse projects and new garden apts of
> similar quality everywhere. Talked to the manager
> of the Sunoco station. No crime. No loitering.
>
> This area south of the Toll Road would be a
> substantial upgrade for HHS and enable Aldrin join
> the other Reston kids at Reston's high school:
> South Lakes.
>
> Make no mistake it would raise the demographics of
> South Lakes also but it wouldn't unify the Reston
> community behind one high school but rather
> perpetuate Lou Zone's partitioning of Reston
> during the last redistricting 16 years ago.
> Unifying Reston in one high school district is my
> highest priority.
>
> Getting rid of IB is second.
>
> Apparently those two goals cannot be achieved with
> Stu, Webb and Bruce in place, so they all have to
> go.
I'm glad you also remember that Lou Zone was the most responsible for the partition. Webb has been retired for years, so you don't have to worry about her.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> > > a ride down Coppermine to McNair Farms Dr. to
> > > Thomas Jefferson Drive conceptually reveals
> the
> > > same as Alabama Ave. I just don't believe
> that
> > > the Alabama Ave. is the sole contributor to
> > > McNair's non-English demographic. It can't
> be.
>
> I did just that today, and I saw
>
> Woodland Park a gated townhouse community with
> mercedes and BMW's in the driveways. Archstone at
> Woodland, Villages at Woodland. Expensive brick
> faced townhouse projects and new garden apts of
> similar quality everywhere. Talked to the manager
> of the Sunoco station. No crime. No loitering.
>
> This area south of the Toll Road would be a
> substantial upgrade for HHS and enable Aldrin join
> the other Reston kids at Reston's high school:
> South Lakes.
>
> Make no mistake it would raise the demographics of
> South Lakes also but it wouldn't unify the Reston
> community behind one high school but rather
> perpetuate Lou Zone's partitioning of Reston
> during the last redistricting 16 years ago.
> Unifying Reston in one high school district is my
> highest priority.
>
> Getting rid of IB is second.
>
> Apparently those two goals cannot be achieved with
> Stu, Webb and Bruce in place, so they all have to
> go.
I'm glad you also remember that Lou Zone was the most responsible for the partition. Webb has been retired for years, so you don't have to worry about her.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:32PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word - you are absolutely correct. I have been
> asserting the same continuously. It baffles me
> why this would not be considered (ADDING AP CLASSES). Maybe some at
> South Lakes have a far more profound understanding
> of teacher limitations at South Lakes than they
> are willing to let on.
Quantum, you accused me of commenting simplistically, and then you go and post the comment above regarding the view that the best students who are redistricted will just pupil-place to other schools. Not only is your comment about the teachers insulting, but also amazing considering that you had just previously told me the following regarding IB:
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH AND THE STATEMENT REFLECTS A SIMPLISTIC WORLD VIEW. IB IS AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM - ESPECIALLY FOR TOP DRAWER STUDENTS WTIH THE CAPABILITY TO GET OVER 2100 ON THE SAT'S - IT IS JUST THAT ITS UTILITY TO THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS IN THE OAKTON/MADISON PROFILE. IB IS LESS FLEXIBLE THAN THE AP PROGRAM, IF ONLY BECAUSE THE SCORES CANNOT BE PROCESSED IN A TIMELY WAY THAT PERMITS STUDENTS TO ENGAGE MORE CONCRETELY IN COLLEGE AND CURRICULUM PLANNING. PUT ANECDOTALLY, A HANDFUL OF AP CLASSES IS OFTEN THE RIGHT DOSE OF MEDICINE FOR THE STUDENT MATRICULATING AT JMU, MARY WASHINGTON, VCU, ETC.
So are top drawer students going to throw themselves under the bus by pupil-placing to AP schools that provide adequate AP doses for getting into JMU, etc., when they could stay at SL and get a top-drawer education.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word - you are absolutely correct. I have been
> asserting the same continuously. It baffles me
> why this would not be considered (ADDING AP CLASSES). Maybe some at
> South Lakes have a far more profound understanding
> of teacher limitations at South Lakes than they
> are willing to let on.
Quantum, you accused me of commenting simplistically, and then you go and post the comment above regarding the view that the best students who are redistricted will just pupil-place to other schools. Not only is your comment about the teachers insulting, but also amazing considering that you had just previously told me the following regarding IB:
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH AND THE STATEMENT REFLECTS A SIMPLISTIC WORLD VIEW. IB IS AN EXCELLENT PROGRAM - ESPECIALLY FOR TOP DRAWER STUDENTS WTIH THE CAPABILITY TO GET OVER 2100 ON THE SAT'S - IT IS JUST THAT ITS UTILITY TO THE MAJORITY OF THE STUDENTS IN THE OAKTON/MADISON PROFILE. IB IS LESS FLEXIBLE THAN THE AP PROGRAM, IF ONLY BECAUSE THE SCORES CANNOT BE PROCESSED IN A TIMELY WAY THAT PERMITS STUDENTS TO ENGAGE MORE CONCRETELY IN COLLEGE AND CURRICULUM PLANNING. PUT ANECDOTALLY, A HANDFUL OF AP CLASSES IS OFTEN THE RIGHT DOSE OF MEDICINE FOR THE STUDENT MATRICULATING AT JMU, MARY WASHINGTON, VCU, ETC.
So are top drawer students going to throw themselves under the bus by pupil-placing to AP schools that provide adequate AP doses for getting into JMU, etc., when they could stay at SL and get a top-drawer education.
Re: high school redistricting - AP @SLHS
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:36PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not all will seek pupil placement, just the
> best... maybe the top half. Spread that out over
> Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Westfield, Chantilly and
> the load is not that great.
>
> Why not just start an AP program and show some
> good faith. These new students will be sent by
> fiat, not by choice. Throw them a bone.
An arrogant comment. Do you think the students from last years' SL class now attending MIT, Cornell, Princeton, UVa, Temple, Middlebury, Wm & Mary, Navy, to name only a few, were second tier? Wake up and see that one can get into good schools with an IB education and open your mind to the possibility.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not all will seek pupil placement, just the
> best... maybe the top half. Spread that out over
> Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Westfield, Chantilly and
> the load is not that great.
>
> Why not just start an AP program and show some
> good faith. These new students will be sent by
> fiat, not by choice. Throw them a bone.
An arrogant comment. Do you think the students from last years' SL class now attending MIT, Cornell, Princeton, UVa, Temple, Middlebury, Wm & Mary, Navy, to name only a few, were second tier? Wake up and see that one can get into good schools with an IB education and open your mind to the possibility.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:38PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps there are a few concerned about that. (I
> really question the integrity of these anonymous
> complainers).
>
> I can tell you for certain that the previous
> results posted concerning the Franklin Farm
> community (1%-3%) would choose South Lakes are
> accurate. Personally, I know of no one that wants
> to switch high schools.
Perhaps they don't mention it in front of you for fear of being told they would be an idiot to send their child to a school like SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps there are a few concerned about that. (I
> really question the integrity of these anonymous
> complainers).
>
> I can tell you for certain that the previous
> results posted concerning the Franklin Farm
> community (1%-3%) would choose South Lakes are
> accurate. Personally, I know of no one that wants
> to switch high schools.
Perhaps they don't mention it in front of you for fear of being told they would be an idiot to send their child to a school like SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:39PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-----
> Webb has been retired for years, so you don't have to worry
> about her.
So who took over for her and when. I know they rearranged the boxes on the organizational chart but whose Butler's boss now?
More Later
-----
> Webb has been retired for years, so you don't have to worry
> about her.
So who took over for her and when. I know they rearranged the boxes on the organizational chart but whose Butler's boss now?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 30, 2007 11:42PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Maybe some at
> > South Lakes have a far more profound
> understanding
> > of teacher limitations at South Lakes than they
> > are willing to let on.
>
> Only the Butler pets and Gibson partisans on the
> PTA board would deny the disfunctional state of
> the instructional staff that Realista left us.
>
> A former math teacher who has since left SL told
> me, when IB came in, that the parallel IB course
> covered less material than the AP course he had
> taught for several years at SL. He also didn't
> like that it demanded more home work/make work
> from the students.
>
> Maybe your hypothesis is right. Maybe IB was
> brought by Webb in to cover for a cheaper, less
> experience, less qualified staff.
So math homework is make-work? Did you children take the higher-level IB math classes? Do you have direct knowledge besides anecdotal information from a former teacher? Since your children do not and have not taken IB, are you really in a position to comment?
-------------------------------------------------------
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Maybe some at
> > South Lakes have a far more profound
> understanding
> > of teacher limitations at South Lakes than they
> > are willing to let on.
>
> Only the Butler pets and Gibson partisans on the
> PTA board would deny the disfunctional state of
> the instructional staff that Realista left us.
>
> A former math teacher who has since left SL told
> me, when IB came in, that the parallel IB course
> covered less material than the AP course he had
> taught for several years at SL. He also didn't
> like that it demanded more home work/make work
> from the students.
>
> Maybe your hypothesis is right. Maybe IB was
> brought by Webb in to cover for a cheaper, less
> experience, less qualified staff.
So math homework is make-work? Did you children take the higher-level IB math classes? Do you have direct knowledge besides anecdotal information from a former teacher? Since your children do not and have not taken IB, are you really in a position to comment?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:06AM
Quantum,
One last comment before bed. SL parents wholeheartedly complained about the last principal, beginning with her 'appointment' to the school without solicitation of any input from parents/teachers. The standard review process was not employed. It was announced that she was to be our principal. So parents were resentful from the start.
I think the situation was sticky, because she was a minority, much as I hate to say it. You have to also understand that roughly 50% of the parent population did not care or did not have the capacity to care. The other half were vocal, but it was hard. After several years of her, morale was down, parents felt unempowered - even me, if you can imagine. Also, the school's reputation had suffered so much that it was difficult to defend it.
She was not replaced because the school board was gearing up for an impending fight, but rather because they could no longer excuse the inexcusable test scores of the minority students.
The review process before hiring Bruce was entirely different. Parents and teachers were involved in the interview process. Bruce Butler was impressive during his interview, had specific and definable goals for the school, and programs laid out for implementing them. He was by far the most impressive candidate, and there were actually several very good ones. When he spoke of the school though, it was with passion and drive, and I think that was what determined the outcome.
Despite what Thomas More says, the change in attitude at the school and in the community since BB took the helm has been tremendous and positive. Pride in the school has been restored, little by little. Test scores are on an upward trend, even with minorities, though admittedly work remains to be done there. What we really lack now is enough middle class families fill in our teams, music programs, etc. We do very well with the students we have now, have excellent, albeit small music programs, etc.
We could be an amazing school if we had just enough middle class families to keep us from reaching that tipping point that seems to spell failing school.
One last comment before bed. SL parents wholeheartedly complained about the last principal, beginning with her 'appointment' to the school without solicitation of any input from parents/teachers. The standard review process was not employed. It was announced that she was to be our principal. So parents were resentful from the start.
I think the situation was sticky, because she was a minority, much as I hate to say it. You have to also understand that roughly 50% of the parent population did not care or did not have the capacity to care. The other half were vocal, but it was hard. After several years of her, morale was down, parents felt unempowered - even me, if you can imagine. Also, the school's reputation had suffered so much that it was difficult to defend it.
She was not replaced because the school board was gearing up for an impending fight, but rather because they could no longer excuse the inexcusable test scores of the minority students.
The review process before hiring Bruce was entirely different. Parents and teachers were involved in the interview process. Bruce Butler was impressive during his interview, had specific and definable goals for the school, and programs laid out for implementing them. He was by far the most impressive candidate, and there were actually several very good ones. When he spoke of the school though, it was with passion and drive, and I think that was what determined the outcome.
Despite what Thomas More says, the change in attitude at the school and in the community since BB took the helm has been tremendous and positive. Pride in the school has been restored, little by little. Test scores are on an upward trend, even with minorities, though admittedly work remains to be done there. What we really lack now is enough middle class families fill in our teams, music programs, etc. We do very well with the students we have now, have excellent, albeit small music programs, etc.
We could be an amazing school if we had just enough middle class families to keep us from reaching that tipping point that seems to spell failing school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:10AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> -----
>
> > Webb has been retired for years, so you don't
> have to worry
> > about her.
>
> So who took over for her and when. I know they
> rearranged the boxes on the organizational chart
> but whose Butler's boss now?
Betsey Goodman, District VIII, I believe. She is in charge of 3 pyramids - Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> -----
>
> > Webb has been retired for years, so you don't
> have to worry
> > about her.
>
> So who took over for her and when. I know they
> rearranged the boxes on the organizational chart
> but whose Butler's boss now?
Betsey Goodman, District VIII, I believe. She is in charge of 3 pyramids - Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:14AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So math homework is make-work? Did you children
> take the higher-level IB math classes? Do you
> have direct knowledge besides anecdotal
> information from a former teacher? Since your
> children do not and have not taken IB, are you
> really in a position to comment?
I trusted this teacher with my child's life on multiple occasions. His opinion on this subject is more valuable to me than any other source. Ignore it if you want. Besides its not an anecdote but a professional opinion.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So math homework is make-work? Did you children
> take the higher-level IB math classes? Do you
> have direct knowledge besides anecdotal
> information from a former teacher? Since your
> children do not and have not taken IB, are you
> really in a position to comment?
I trusted this teacher with my child's life on multiple occasions. His opinion on this subject is more valuable to me than any other source. Ignore it if you want. Besides its not an anecdote but a professional opinion.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:27AM
>>>They witheld the endorsement in 2003 because he hadn't gotten rid of Realista.<<<
Surely you don't believe that ANY political party would care who is principal at whatever school and use that as a reason to not endorse.
Honestly Thomas, you're looking like a fool here. Anyone who was around in 2003 knows that the democratic party endorsed Stu. There is nothing on the questionnaire for endorsement that mentions the principal of any school. Nor is it mentioned in the interview before the committee. It's simply not relevant. The county committee couldn't care less about the issues at one school, or any school. They want to get candidates elected who share their ideology. That's it. Stu shares their ideology AND he was an incumbent in 2003. Of course they endorsed him.
Perhaps you will believe this article in the Post:
"Under Virginia law, school boards are nonpartisan, but in Fairfax, no candidate has won election without the backing of a major political party."
See? NO ONE without the backing of a political party has EVER won. Stu is included. He had the backing of the party every time he ran. Unless of course you think that Stu Gibson was endorsed by republicans in 2003.
I've given you two sources, from the Post, that say Stu was endorsed by the democrats in 2003. If you choose to believe what ONE guy/gal in Reston told you, you will continue to look foolish. Unless, of course, you've found sources better than the Post that say Stu was not endorsed by the democrats in 2003. You won't find them, because they don't exist, but I welcome your search results.
Surely you don't believe that ANY political party would care who is principal at whatever school and use that as a reason to not endorse.
Honestly Thomas, you're looking like a fool here. Anyone who was around in 2003 knows that the democratic party endorsed Stu. There is nothing on the questionnaire for endorsement that mentions the principal of any school. Nor is it mentioned in the interview before the committee. It's simply not relevant. The county committee couldn't care less about the issues at one school, or any school. They want to get candidates elected who share their ideology. That's it. Stu shares their ideology AND he was an incumbent in 2003. Of course they endorsed him.
Perhaps you will believe this article in the Post:
"Under Virginia law, school boards are nonpartisan, but in Fairfax, no candidate has won election without the backing of a major political party."
See? NO ONE without the backing of a political party has EVER won. Stu is included. He had the backing of the party every time he ran. Unless of course you think that Stu Gibson was endorsed by republicans in 2003.
I've given you two sources, from the Post, that say Stu was endorsed by the democrats in 2003. If you choose to believe what ONE guy/gal in Reston told you, you will continue to look foolish. Unless, of course, you've found sources better than the Post that say Stu was not endorsed by the democrats in 2003. You won't find them, because they don't exist, but I welcome your search results.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:31AM
Thomas More said:
"This kid is dropping out of pre-English and back to normal college prep english."
What is that course? What is normal college prep English? The other high schools have no such course. Is this IB course? Or an Honors English class?
"This kid is dropping out of pre-English and back to normal college prep english."
What is that course? What is normal college prep English? The other high schools have no such course. Is this IB course? Or an Honors English class?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:34AM
>>>Apparently, Stu sent out hate flyers today about Arakelian. Guess he and Kathy cooked this idea up together...<<<
Did these flyers come in the mail? Can anyone here post a copy?
Sounds like they're getting desperate. How ugly of them. No one has treated them that way. I can only hope that it backfires on them both.
Did these flyers come in the mail? Can anyone here post a copy?
Sounds like they're getting desperate. How ugly of them. No one has treated them that way. I can only hope that it backfires on them both.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:38AM
Quantum
I also called Betsey Goodman trying to get rid of Railly. What ultimately got us rid of her? Who knows?
More Later
I also called Betsey Goodman trying to get rid of Railly. What ultimately got us rid of her? Who knows?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:43AM
BTW, the lastest enrollment numbers show Oakton over enrolled by 25 students and Madison by 35, so students will not be able to pupil place into either school. The excuse will be that there isn't room. All the AP schools around South Lakes are now over enrolled, except Centreville which has 43 empty seats and Herndon has 35.
It would appear that staff has closed this method of exit from South Lakes.
It would appear that staff has closed this method of exit from South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:46AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So math homework is make-work? Did you
> children
> > take the higher-level IB math classes? Do you
> > have direct knowledge besides anecdotal
> > information from a former teacher? Since your
> > children do not and have not taken IB, are you
> > really in a position to comment?
>
> I trusted this teacher with my child's life on
> multiple occasions. His opinion on this subject
> is more valuable to me than any other source.
> Ignore it if you want. Besides its not an
> anecdote but a professional opinion.
I'll give you that. I think the new math dept. chair is excellent and my son loved both Mr. Sharpe - Math Methods I (Pre-Calc) and his MMII (calc) teacher (name escapes me but she is Russian).
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So math homework is make-work? Did you
> children
> > take the higher-level IB math classes? Do you
> > have direct knowledge besides anecdotal
> > information from a former teacher? Since your
> > children do not and have not taken IB, are you
> > really in a position to comment?
>
> I trusted this teacher with my child's life on
> multiple occasions. His opinion on this subject
> is more valuable to me than any other source.
> Ignore it if you want. Besides its not an
> anecdote but a professional opinion.
I'll give you that. I think the new math dept. chair is excellent and my son loved both Mr. Sharpe - Math Methods I (Pre-Calc) and his MMII (calc) teacher (name escapes me but she is Russian).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:48AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, the lastest enrollment numbers show Oakton
> over enrolled by 25 students and Madison by 35, so
> students will not be able to pupil place into
> either school. The excuse will be that there
> isn't room. All the AP schools around South Lakes
> are now over enrolled, except Centreville which
> has 43 empty seats and Herndon has 35.
>
> It would appear that staff has closed this method
> of exit from South Lakes.
Are you implying that the numbers are cooked? Do I mis-understand.
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, the lastest enrollment numbers show Oakton
> over enrolled by 25 students and Madison by 35, so
> students will not be able to pupil place into
> either school. The excuse will be that there
> isn't room. All the AP schools around South Lakes
> are now over enrolled, except Centreville which
> has 43 empty seats and Herndon has 35.
>
> It would appear that staff has closed this method
> of exit from South Lakes.
Are you implying that the numbers are cooked? Do I mis-understand.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:50AM
>>>We could be an amazing school if we had just enough middle class families to keep us from reaching that tipping point that seems to spell failing school.<<<
It seems that the tipping point has been passed in the minds of the extended community, if not in reality. If it hadn't, this discussion would not have reached 24 pages and www.StopRd.org would not be as effective as it has been, with so many supporters.
The school board and staff need to fix the mess they've created, BEFORE they can expect the support of those outside the boundaries of South Lakes. There must be a positive reason to attend South Lakes, a program that attracts students. The school board can do that. They can make a program that meets the needs and desires of students, rather than continuing to meet the wants and desires of principals and administrative staff. Without doing that first, no redistricting will succeed. If you doubt that, you need only look at Marshall high school.
It seems that the tipping point has been passed in the minds of the extended community, if not in reality. If it hadn't, this discussion would not have reached 24 pages and www.StopRd.org would not be as effective as it has been, with so many supporters.
The school board and staff need to fix the mess they've created, BEFORE they can expect the support of those outside the boundaries of South Lakes. There must be a positive reason to attend South Lakes, a program that attracts students. The school board can do that. They can make a program that meets the needs and desires of students, rather than continuing to meet the wants and desires of principals and administrative staff. Without doing that first, no redistricting will succeed. If you doubt that, you need only look at Marshall high school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slgrad
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:51AM
SLVerity Wrote:
> I'll give you that. I think the new math dept.
> chair is excellent and my son loved both Mr.
> Sharpe - Math Methods I (Pre-Calc) and his MMII
> (calc) teacher (name escapes me but she is
> Russian).
Samedov
> I'll give you that. I think the new math dept.
> chair is excellent and my son loved both Mr.
> Sharpe - Math Methods I (Pre-Calc) and his MMII
> (calc) teacher (name escapes me but she is
> Russian).
Samedov
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:51AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If
> you choose to believe what ONE guy/gal in Reston
> told you, you will continue to look foolish.
> Unless, of course, you've found sources better
> than the Post that say Stu was not endorsed by the
> democrats in 2003.
At the meeting where the discussion of the inadequacies of the South Lakes principal were reviewed in the Spring of 2003, Sen. Howell and Delgate Plum were present. Delegate Plum stated there had been a problem with the leadership at South Lakes almost since the day it opened. The HMDC chairman said that if Stu was ignoring the community and taking no action on Railly's inadequecies, the party could not endorse him. I don't know how much more detail you need to know to accept that he wasn't endorsed in 2003. Unlike this year, his signs in 2003 made no mention of a party endorsement, though they did have the "teacher endorsed" flyer on the top.
Since you've obviously have never been involved in Hunter Mill Democratic Committee affairs, why are you so insistent on an event that you didn't participate in and have no first hand knowledge of?
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 02:47AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If
> you choose to believe what ONE guy/gal in Reston
> told you, you will continue to look foolish.
> Unless, of course, you've found sources better
> than the Post that say Stu was not endorsed by the
> democrats in 2003.
At the meeting where the discussion of the inadequacies of the South Lakes principal were reviewed in the Spring of 2003, Sen. Howell and Delgate Plum were present. Delegate Plum stated there had been a problem with the leadership at South Lakes almost since the day it opened. The HMDC chairman said that if Stu was ignoring the community and taking no action on Railly's inadequecies, the party could not endorse him. I don't know how much more detail you need to know to accept that he wasn't endorsed in 2003. Unlike this year, his signs in 2003 made no mention of a party endorsement, though they did have the "teacher endorsed" flyer on the top.
Since you've obviously have never been involved in Hunter Mill Democratic Committee affairs, why are you so insistent on an event that you didn't participate in and have no first hand knowledge of?
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 02:47AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:52AM
Thomas,
Principals don't really have any boss. We have 'site based management'. Principals are in charge of their own little fiefdom and can do what they want.
Principals don't really have any boss. We have 'site based management'. Principals are in charge of their own little fiefdom and can do what they want.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:00AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll give you that. I think the new math dept.
> chair is excellent and my son loved both Mr.
> Sharpe - Math Methods I (Pre-Calc) and his MMII
> (calc) teacher (name escapes me but she is
> Russian).
If my youngest shows any interest in that area I will definitely keep your review in mind.
Not every teacher at Sl is horrible I listed several superb ones in an earlier posting. There are just too few good and great ones.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:00AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll give you that. I think the new math dept.
> chair is excellent and my son loved both Mr.
> Sharpe - Math Methods I (Pre-Calc) and his MMII
> (calc) teacher (name escapes me but she is
> Russian).
If my youngest shows any interest in that area I will definitely keep your review in mind.
Not every teacher at Sl is horrible I listed several superb ones in an earlier posting. There are just too few good and great ones.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:00AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:01AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>We could be an amazing school if we had just
> enough middle class families to keep us from
> reaching that tipping point that seems to spell
> failing school.<<<
>
> It seems that the tipping point has been passed in
> the minds of the extended community, if not in
> reality. If it hadn't, this discussion would not
> have reached 24 pages and www.StopRd.org would not
> be as effective as it has been, with so many
> supporters.
>
> The school board and staff need to fix the mess
> they've created, BEFORE they can expect the
> support of those outside the boundaries of South
> Lakes. There must be a positive reason to attend
> South Lakes, a program that attracts students.
> The school board can do that. They can make a
> program that meets the needs and desires of
> students, rather than continuing to meet the wants
> and desires of principals and administrative
> staff. Without doing that first, no redistricting
> will succeed. If you doubt that, you need only
> look at Marshall high school.
Was a large portion of another school redistricted to Marshall and then did not go? I was not aware. From what I've seen, Marshall seems to do quite well despite its size. I think that area has also aged, with not much in the way of new housing except along Idyllwood.
You ask that new programs that attract you be added before redistricting is to be considered. From a budgetary standpoint, the new programs/courses can't be added UNLESS there is redistricting. If that happens, then the increased enrollment justifies the addition of new programs.
It appears that you are setting up a straw man argument.
If AP courses were added that filled in perceived gaps in IB, what would be objectionable? Many on this site have told you that IB is basically the same as AP in that a menu of courses can be taken without doing the whole diploma.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>We could be an amazing school if we had just
> enough middle class families to keep us from
> reaching that tipping point that seems to spell
> failing school.<<<
>
> It seems that the tipping point has been passed in
> the minds of the extended community, if not in
> reality. If it hadn't, this discussion would not
> have reached 24 pages and www.StopRd.org would not
> be as effective as it has been, with so many
> supporters.
>
> The school board and staff need to fix the mess
> they've created, BEFORE they can expect the
> support of those outside the boundaries of South
> Lakes. There must be a positive reason to attend
> South Lakes, a program that attracts students.
> The school board can do that. They can make a
> program that meets the needs and desires of
> students, rather than continuing to meet the wants
> and desires of principals and administrative
> staff. Without doing that first, no redistricting
> will succeed. If you doubt that, you need only
> look at Marshall high school.
Was a large portion of another school redistricted to Marshall and then did not go? I was not aware. From what I've seen, Marshall seems to do quite well despite its size. I think that area has also aged, with not much in the way of new housing except along Idyllwood.
You ask that new programs that attract you be added before redistricting is to be considered. From a budgetary standpoint, the new programs/courses can't be added UNLESS there is redistricting. If that happens, then the increased enrollment justifies the addition of new programs.
It appears that you are setting up a straw man argument.
If AP courses were added that filled in perceived gaps in IB, what would be objectionable? Many on this site have told you that IB is basically the same as AP in that a menu of courses can be taken without doing the whole diploma.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:06AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you need only
> look at Marshall high school.
To what are you refering. My nephews attend Marshall. Their parents are very happy with their experience there. I'm envious of their contentment.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> you need only
> look at Marshall high school.
To what are you refering. My nephews attend Marshall. Their parents are very happy with their experience there. I'm envious of their contentment.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:06AM
Of course Stu's signs don't say democrat party endorsed. They can't. He's under the Hatch Act. That's how Stu and the democrats nailed Al White when he ran in Sully against Kathy Smith. Al put the party endorsement sign on his signs, and the democrats nailed him under the Hatch Act.
Do Stu's signs this year say that he has democratic party endorsement? If so, he has made a HUGE mistake. He could lose his real job. I seriously doubt that he would be that dumb. In fact, I know that he wouldn't. He's never used party endorsement on his signs.
I am 100% certain that Stu was endorsed by the democrats in 2003. Why don't you drop him an email and ask him? I'm sure that he wouldn't mind telling you. stugibson4sb@yahoo.com or stuart.gibson@fcps.edu
You are quite wrong on the personal knowledge part of your argument.
You need to write to Stu about this issue because someone is lying to you about what transpired. I wouldn't want you to continue believing your source because he's lying to you. Please, write Stu and ask. He'll be honest with you. He'd never put it in writing that he was endorsed in 2003 if he wasn't. I promise you, he was endorsed each time by the democratic party. Republicans always declined to endorse him. Feel free to ask him about that too.
Do Stu's signs this year say that he has democratic party endorsement? If so, he has made a HUGE mistake. He could lose his real job. I seriously doubt that he would be that dumb. In fact, I know that he wouldn't. He's never used party endorsement on his signs.
I am 100% certain that Stu was endorsed by the democrats in 2003. Why don't you drop him an email and ask him? I'm sure that he wouldn't mind telling you. stugibson4sb@yahoo.com or stuart.gibson@fcps.edu
You are quite wrong on the personal knowledge part of your argument.
You need to write to Stu about this issue because someone is lying to you about what transpired. I wouldn't want you to continue believing your source because he's lying to you. Please, write Stu and ask. He'll be honest with you. He'd never put it in writing that he was endorsed in 2003 if he wasn't. I promise you, he was endorsed each time by the democratic party. Republicans always declined to endorse him. Feel free to ask him about that too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:19AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do Stu's signs this year say that he has
> democratic party endorsement? If so, he has made
> a HUGE mistake. He could lose his real job. I
> seriously doubt that he would be that dumb. In
> fact, I know that he wouldn't. He's never used
> party endorsement on his signs.
I'll double check in the morning but I'm fairly certain they do this year and so do his mailings.
> I am 100% certain that Stu was endorsed by the
> democrats in 2003. Why don't you drop him an
> email and ask him?
He's already been dishonest about the 2003 commitment to Aldrin and Armstong. Why would I either ask him or believe him?
> You are quite wrong on the personal knowledge part
> of your argument.
So you were part of the Hunter Mill Democratic Committee in 2003?
With Purvis as his opponent in 2003 not having the party endorsement was not fatal as it would have been this year.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:20AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do Stu's signs this year say that he has
> democratic party endorsement? If so, he has made
> a HUGE mistake. He could lose his real job. I
> seriously doubt that he would be that dumb. In
> fact, I know that he wouldn't. He's never used
> party endorsement on his signs.
I'll double check in the morning but I'm fairly certain they do this year and so do his mailings.
> I am 100% certain that Stu was endorsed by the
> democrats in 2003. Why don't you drop him an
> email and ask him?
He's already been dishonest about the 2003 commitment to Aldrin and Armstong. Why would I either ask him or believe him?
> You are quite wrong on the personal knowledge part
> of your argument.
So you were part of the Hunter Mill Democratic Committee in 2003?
With Purvis as his opponent in 2003 not having the party endorsement was not fatal as it would have been this year.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:20AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:22AM
Thomas,
Twenty years ago or so, Marshall was under enrolled so the north end of Vienna, outside the town limits, was redistricted to go to Marshall. It never worked, they've always been under enrolled. This year they have 1,325 students in a facility that could hold 1,600+. This is one of their largest enrollments. They're tried everything to attract new students and out of boundary students, lots of academy courses, IB, computer certification programs, culinary program, hotel management, auto body, auto repair, international program, and they still can't get the enrollment up. Their SAT scores are the lowest of the schools around them, McLean, Madison, Langley. Their population of white students is 55%, while Langley is 73%, McLean 66%, Oakton 67% and Madison 74%. The white families who were redistricted to Marshall never showed up so their population has stayed right around 1,300 students. The same thing will happen at South Lakes if they don't get some attractive programs into the school FIRST. Without an attraction, higher income families will simply go elsewhere. Of course this should have been done at South Lakes years back.
I'm glad that your relatives are happy at their school. Most people who send their children to a school would report that they like it, or they would have to justify sending their children to a school that was under enrolled and somewhat less desirable. I'm sure you understand that. People always think that the school they send their child to is a good school. They have to think that, or they'd have to move their children to another school. Wouldn't they? Most parents couldn't live with the thought that they were sending their children to a less desirable school.
Twenty years ago or so, Marshall was under enrolled so the north end of Vienna, outside the town limits, was redistricted to go to Marshall. It never worked, they've always been under enrolled. This year they have 1,325 students in a facility that could hold 1,600+. This is one of their largest enrollments. They're tried everything to attract new students and out of boundary students, lots of academy courses, IB, computer certification programs, culinary program, hotel management, auto body, auto repair, international program, and they still can't get the enrollment up. Their SAT scores are the lowest of the schools around them, McLean, Madison, Langley. Their population of white students is 55%, while Langley is 73%, McLean 66%, Oakton 67% and Madison 74%. The white families who were redistricted to Marshall never showed up so their population has stayed right around 1,300 students. The same thing will happen at South Lakes if they don't get some attractive programs into the school FIRST. Without an attraction, higher income families will simply go elsewhere. Of course this should have been done at South Lakes years back.
I'm glad that your relatives are happy at their school. Most people who send their children to a school would report that they like it, or they would have to justify sending their children to a school that was under enrolled and somewhat less desirable. I'm sure you understand that. People always think that the school they send their child to is a good school. They have to think that, or they'd have to move their children to another school. Wouldn't they? Most parents couldn't live with the thought that they were sending their children to a less desirable school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:27AM
Thomas,
If you won't believe Stu, ask Janie, or any other democrat who was endorsed in 2003. Ask anyone who was around then. I am 100% certain. Totally. Completely. Pick a democrat on the school board who you trust and ask him/her. Ask Phil. Or Kaye Kory. Or Moon. Any of them. I'd be happy to get their email addresses for you.
Stu would not lie in writing about anything. He's a lawyer. He knows what to put in writing and what not to. The man is not dumb. I suspect you know that, and you know that the Washington Post is right and so am I. Your 'friend' has lied to you.
Email me if you want more details on how I know. I am not going into those details here.
If you won't believe Stu, ask Janie, or any other democrat who was endorsed in 2003. Ask anyone who was around then. I am 100% certain. Totally. Completely. Pick a democrat on the school board who you trust and ask him/her. Ask Phil. Or Kaye Kory. Or Moon. Any of them. I'd be happy to get their email addresses for you.
Stu would not lie in writing about anything. He's a lawyer. He knows what to put in writing and what not to. The man is not dumb. I suspect you know that, and you know that the Washington Post is right and so am I. Your 'friend' has lied to you.
Email me if you want more details on how I know. I am not going into those details here.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:28AM
Thomas,
How many mailings has Stu sent out this year? Did you see today's mailing, bashing Arakelian? What did it say?
Thanks.
How many mailings has Stu sent out this year? Did you see today's mailing, bashing Arakelian? What did it say?
Thanks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:30AM
Sorry, but IB is not 'basically the same as AP". It simply isn't. If it were, the top private and public schools would have IB. They don't.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:30AM
> "This kid is dropping out of pre-English and back
> to normal college prep english."
>
> What is that course? What is normal college prep
> English? The other high schools have no such
> course. Is this IB course? Or an Honors English
> class?
I don't remember seeing honors courses in the SL course catalog. As I understand it, in 10th grade a kids doesn't take IB classes. You can take a course that's pre-IB or take the same course in a non-pre-IB format. I'm sure the IB afficiandos were dispute, correct, repudiate the foregoing.
> to normal college prep english."
>
> What is that course? What is normal college prep
> English? The other high schools have no such
> course. Is this IB course? Or an Honors English
> class?
I don't remember seeing honors courses in the SL course catalog. As I understand it, in 10th grade a kids doesn't take IB classes. You can take a course that's pre-IB or take the same course in a non-pre-IB format. I'm sure the IB afficiandos were dispute, correct, repudiate the foregoing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:34AM
Neen Wrote:
>
> I'm glad that your relatives are happy at their
> school. Most people who send their children to a
> school would report that they like it, or they
> would have to justify sending their children to a
> school that was under enrolled and somewhat less
> desirable. I'm sure you understand that. People
> always think that the school they send their child
> to is a good school. They have to think that, or
> they'd have to move their children to another
> school. Wouldn't they? Most parents couldn't
> live with the thought that they were sending their
> children to a less desirable school.
I think the paragraph above displays some arrogance. Could it be that they are just happy with the school?
Less desirable? - if you are as conservative as you seem to imply, I am surprised that you can't acknowledge that a person can go to a 'less desirable' school and still do well, with a little effort and hard work.
You seem to be very concerned about the labels - 'good school,' 'less desirable school.' Are you afraid that if your kids go to South Lakes that you will be judged harshly by peers in surrounding districts? Are you implying that those of us who kept our children at SL are saps? Or that you would be one if your child went there.
Careful, or you will undo any good arguments you have presented thus far.
>
> I'm glad that your relatives are happy at their
> school. Most people who send their children to a
> school would report that they like it, or they
> would have to justify sending their children to a
> school that was under enrolled and somewhat less
> desirable. I'm sure you understand that. People
> always think that the school they send their child
> to is a good school. They have to think that, or
> they'd have to move their children to another
> school. Wouldn't they? Most parents couldn't
> live with the thought that they were sending their
> children to a less desirable school.
I think the paragraph above displays some arrogance. Could it be that they are just happy with the school?
Less desirable? - if you are as conservative as you seem to imply, I am surprised that you can't acknowledge that a person can go to a 'less desirable' school and still do well, with a little effort and hard work.
You seem to be very concerned about the labels - 'good school,' 'less desirable school.' Are you afraid that if your kids go to South Lakes that you will be judged harshly by peers in surrounding districts? Are you implying that those of us who kept our children at SL are saps? Or that you would be one if your child went there.
Careful, or you will undo any good arguments you have presented thus far.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:37AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, but IB is not 'basically the same as AP".
> It simply isn't. If it were, the top private and
> public schools would have IB. They don't.
Can you explain George Mason in Falls Church and Robinson in Fairfax, both considered top schools and both having IB. Yes I know Robinson has AP too, but Mason is strictly IB. How about Trinity Episcopal in Richmond, a private prep school.
I've stated this before and have been ignored. Are these facts not convenient to your argument?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, but IB is not 'basically the same as AP".
> It simply isn't. If it were, the top private and
> public schools would have IB. They don't.
Can you explain George Mason in Falls Church and Robinson in Fairfax, both considered top schools and both having IB. Yes I know Robinson has AP too, but Mason is strictly IB. How about Trinity Episcopal in Richmond, a private prep school.
I've stated this before and have been ignored. Are these facts not convenient to your argument?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:39AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > "This kid is dropping out of pre-English and
> back
> > to normal college prep english."
> >
> > What is that course? What is normal college
> prep
> > English? The other high schools have no such
> > course. Is this IB course? Or an Honors
> English
> > class?
>
> I don't remember seeing honors courses in the SL
> course catalog. As I understand it, in 10th grade
> a kids doesn't take IB classes. You can take a
> course that's pre-IB or take the same course in a
> non-pre-IB format. I'm sure the IB afficiandos
> were dispute, correct, repudiate the foregoing.
Pre-IB = Honors courses at AP schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > "This kid is dropping out of pre-English and
> back
> > to normal college prep english."
> >
> > What is that course? What is normal college
> prep
> > English? The other high schools have no such
> > course. Is this IB course? Or an Honors
> English
> > class?
>
> I don't remember seeing honors courses in the SL
> course catalog. As I understand it, in 10th grade
> a kids doesn't take IB classes. You can take a
> course that's pre-IB or take the same course in a
> non-pre-IB format. I'm sure the IB afficiandos
> were dispute, correct, repudiate the foregoing.
Pre-IB = Honors courses at AP schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:40AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> How many mailings has Stu sent out this year?
I've seen one so far
Did
> you see today's mailing, bashing Arakelian? What
> did it say?
not yet
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> How many mailings has Stu sent out this year?
I've seen one so far
Did
> you see today's mailing, bashing Arakelian? What
> did it say?
not yet
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:46AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad that your relatives are happy at their
> school. Most people who send their children to a
> school would report that they like it, or they
> would have to justify sending their children to a
> school that was under enrolled and somewhat less
> desirable. I'm sure you understand that. People
> always think that the school they send their child
> to is a good school. They have to think that, or
> they'd have to move their children to another
> school. Wouldn't they? Most parents couldn't
> live with the thought that they were sending their
> children to a less desirable school.
Their Mom is a PHD candidate and very involved in their children's education. We've talked in detail about the strengths and weakness of Marshall and SL. So this not wishful thinking or whistling in the dark.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:48AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad that your relatives are happy at their
> school. Most people who send their children to a
> school would report that they like it, or they
> would have to justify sending their children to a
> school that was under enrolled and somewhat less
> desirable. I'm sure you understand that. People
> always think that the school they send their child
> to is a good school. They have to think that, or
> they'd have to move their children to another
> school. Wouldn't they? Most parents couldn't
> live with the thought that they were sending their
> children to a less desirable school.
Their Mom is a PHD candidate and very involved in their children's education. We've talked in detail about the strengths and weakness of Marshall and SL. So this not wishful thinking or whistling in the dark.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:48AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:52AM
Oh Neeeeen!!!
George Mason, an all IB school? Have you checked their SAT scores, rankings in the Challenge Index, percent of kids on Free & reduced lunch, etc. For example: 2007 aggregate SAT 1737. By comparison Oakton 1680.
Incidentally, both Oakton and Madison lost SAT points this year, by 33 and 23 points respectively. And both were down from the year before in math and verbal. Am I to infer that fortunes at those schools are declining, or that they may be becoming 'less desirable'?
George Mason, an all IB school? Have you checked their SAT scores, rankings in the Challenge Index, percent of kids on Free & reduced lunch, etc. For example: 2007 aggregate SAT 1737. By comparison Oakton 1680.
Incidentally, both Oakton and Madison lost SAT points this year, by 33 and 23 points respectively. And both were down from the year before in math and verbal. Am I to infer that fortunes at those schools are declining, or that they may be becoming 'less desirable'?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:05AM
SL, of course kids can achieve in one of the lower performing schools. I would never say otherwise. But it's more difficult when the school climate doesn't support that achievement.
Yes, I found it interesting that the only group of students who didn't improve on the SAT were whites. Every other race went up. I hope that means that they are teaching more SAT prep courses at low performing schools. I know that the Madison principal has heard plenty about their declining scores and of course TJ scores have gone down since they began the latest affirmative action program.
Yes, I found it interesting that the only group of students who didn't improve on the SAT were whites. Every other race went up. I hope that means that they are teaching more SAT prep courses at low performing schools. I know that the Madison principal has heard plenty about their declining scores and of course TJ scores have gone down since they began the latest affirmative action program.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:06AM
Thomas, Can you tell me what makes Marshall a program that makes you feel envious? What are they doing that SL isn't doing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:07AM
To Drive the Point home that IB is not just for low income or failing schools the following press release from George Mason in Falls Church:
George Mason High School SAT Scores Rise
Gains are considered “Significant”
Released: August 29, 2007
Release # 070829_03
Contact:
Karen Acar, Dir. of Communications
(703) 248-5699 (office)
Printable version -
The Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) scores are in, and the results are excellent for the George Mason High School Class of 2007. In a year when state and national averages dropped, the GMHS scores rose substantially from 2006.
“A gain of 10 points would be considered significant,” Superintendent Lois Berlin said. “Our students’ gain of 28 points overall is extraordinary, and we are so proud of their success.”
Here’s a look at the GMHS SAT scores as well as the state and national averages:
Verbal Math Writing Combined GMHS Class of 2007
586 587 564 1737
The percentage of George Mason High School students who took the SAT also increased from about 75 percent in 2006 to 89 percent in 2007. Principal Bob Snee says the participation rate and scores are a reflection of both the high school offerings and student goals.
“Our students are motivated, focused and appropriately challenged by George Mason High School teachers and curriculum. Our students have consistently scored above state and national SAT averages, and we are pleased with this year’s performance.”
The George Mason High School Class of 2007 also recorded the highest high school graduation rate in the area (97.4%), and 10 percent of the class received National Merit Scholar recognition as either finalists or commended students. Roughly 90 percent of the GMHS graduates are seeking post-secondary degrees, primarily in 4-year colleges and universities.
Any comment?
George Mason High School SAT Scores Rise
Gains are considered “Significant”
Released: August 29, 2007
Release # 070829_03
Contact:
Karen Acar, Dir. of Communications
(703) 248-5699 (office)
Printable version -
The Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) scores are in, and the results are excellent for the George Mason High School Class of 2007. In a year when state and national averages dropped, the GMHS scores rose substantially from 2006.
“A gain of 10 points would be considered significant,” Superintendent Lois Berlin said. “Our students’ gain of 28 points overall is extraordinary, and we are so proud of their success.”
Here’s a look at the GMHS SAT scores as well as the state and national averages:
Verbal Math Writing Combined GMHS Class of 2007
586 587 564 1737
The percentage of George Mason High School students who took the SAT also increased from about 75 percent in 2006 to 89 percent in 2007. Principal Bob Snee says the participation rate and scores are a reflection of both the high school offerings and student goals.
“Our students are motivated, focused and appropriately challenged by George Mason High School teachers and curriculum. Our students have consistently scored above state and national SAT averages, and we are pleased with this year’s performance.”
The George Mason High School Class of 2007 also recorded the highest high school graduation rate in the area (97.4%), and 10 percent of the class received National Merit Scholar recognition as either finalists or commended students. Roughly 90 percent of the GMHS graduates are seeking post-secondary degrees, primarily in 4-year colleges and universities.
Any comment?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:11AM
Robinson has both, AP and IB. I don't know much about George Mason high school and why they chose IB. It's a small school, with students coming from mostly high income families, the majority will do fine wherever they go to school.
What about Potomac school, Flint Hill, Landren, St Albans, Visitation? Andover? Georgetown Prep? Bullis?
What about Potomac school, Flint Hill, Landren, St Albans, Visitation? Andover? Georgetown Prep? Bullis?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:14AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL, of course kids can achieve in one of the lower
> performing schools. I would never say otherwise.
> But it's more difficult when the school climate
> doesn't support that achievement.
How do you know that school climate doesn't support achievement at South Lakes? You could not be more wrong. Do you have first-hand knowledge or is this just your opinion based on hearsay?
>
> Yes, I found it interesting that the only group of
> students who didn't improve on the SAT were
> whites. Every other race went up. I hope that
> means that they are teaching more SAT prep courses
> at low performing schools. I know that the
> Madison principal has heard plenty about their
> declining scores and of course TJ scores have gone
> down since they began the latest affirmative
> action program.
No comment on declining fortunes? How to explain the drop? Is AP not preparing the white students properly? Are teachers at Madison and Oakton falling behind or sub-par as has been suggested about South Lakes' teachers. Incidentally, South Lakes scores went up this year.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL, of course kids can achieve in one of the lower
> performing schools. I would never say otherwise.
> But it's more difficult when the school climate
> doesn't support that achievement.
How do you know that school climate doesn't support achievement at South Lakes? You could not be more wrong. Do you have first-hand knowledge or is this just your opinion based on hearsay?
>
> Yes, I found it interesting that the only group of
> students who didn't improve on the SAT were
> whites. Every other race went up. I hope that
> means that they are teaching more SAT prep courses
> at low performing schools. I know that the
> Madison principal has heard plenty about their
> declining scores and of course TJ scores have gone
> down since they began the latest affirmative
> action program.
No comment on declining fortunes? How to explain the drop? Is AP not preparing the white students properly? Are teachers at Madison and Oakton falling behind or sub-par as has been suggested about South Lakes' teachers. Incidentally, South Lakes scores went up this year.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:19AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robinson has both, AP and IB. I don't know much
> about George Mason high school and why they chose
> IB. It's a small school, with students coming
> from mostly high income families, the majority
> will do fine wherever they go to school.
>
> What about Potomac school, Flint Hill, Landren, St
> Albans, Visitation? Andover? Georgetown Prep?
> Bullis?
Who cares. I give you an excellent example and you can't acknowledge that perhaps IB might have something to do with their success. In their case it must be all about the high income families. Isn't the point I have been making all along that middle class students transferring to South Lakes will do fine with IB. If they do fine at GM, why not at SL. Same program. Incidentally, GM has has IB for many more years than it's been in Fairfax Schools and they love it. It's a one-school system and they could chuck it at any time but they haven't.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robinson has both, AP and IB. I don't know much
> about George Mason high school and why they chose
> IB. It's a small school, with students coming
> from mostly high income families, the majority
> will do fine wherever they go to school.
>
> What about Potomac school, Flint Hill, Landren, St
> Albans, Visitation? Andover? Georgetown Prep?
> Bullis?
Who cares. I give you an excellent example and you can't acknowledge that perhaps IB might have something to do with their success. In their case it must be all about the high income families. Isn't the point I have been making all along that middle class students transferring to South Lakes will do fine with IB. If they do fine at GM, why not at SL. Same program. Incidentally, GM has has IB for many more years than it's been in Fairfax Schools and they love it. It's a one-school system and they could chuck it at any time but they haven't.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:21AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robinson has both, AP and IB. I don't know much
> about George Mason high school and why they chose
> IB. It's a small school, with students coming
> from mostly high income families, the majority
> will do fine wherever they go to school.
>
> What about Potomac school, Flint Hill, Landren, St
> Albans, Visitation? Andover? Georgetown Prep?
> Bullis?
I believe that I said Robinson has both AP and IB. Note that their SAT scores are lower than George Mason's - perhaps AP has watered down their achievement./sarcasm off
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robinson has both, AP and IB. I don't know much
> about George Mason high school and why they chose
> IB. It's a small school, with students coming
> from mostly high income families, the majority
> will do fine wherever they go to school.
>
> What about Potomac school, Flint Hill, Landren, St
> Albans, Visitation? Andover? Georgetown Prep?
> Bullis?
I believe that I said Robinson has both AP and IB. Note that their SAT scores are lower than George Mason's - perhaps AP has watered down their achievement./sarcasm off
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:30AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, I found it interesting that the only group of
> students who didn't improve on the SAT were
> whites. Every other race went up. I hope that
> means that they are teaching more SAT prep courses
> at low performing schools. I know that the
> Madison principal has heard plenty about their
> declining scores and of course TJ scores have gone
> down since they began the latest affirmative
> action program.
Do you see the irony in saying on one hand that you hope more SAT prep is being taught at low performing schools - (aside: are Madison and Oakton now low performing?). Then in the next breath you bemoan AA at TJ. Careful or folks might think you are racist. If high income white kids will do well wherever they go, as you previously stated, what does it matter if a handful of minorities are sprinkled in at TJ? Didn't you say that you have a child at TJ? Worried about labels again?
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, I found it interesting that the only group of
> students who didn't improve on the SAT were
> whites. Every other race went up. I hope that
> means that they are teaching more SAT prep courses
> at low performing schools. I know that the
> Madison principal has heard plenty about their
> declining scores and of course TJ scores have gone
> down since they began the latest affirmative
> action program.
Do you see the irony in saying on one hand that you hope more SAT prep is being taught at low performing schools - (aside: are Madison and Oakton now low performing?). Then in the next breath you bemoan AA at TJ. Careful or folks might think you are racist. If high income white kids will do well wherever they go, as you previously stated, what does it matter if a handful of minorities are sprinkled in at TJ? Didn't you say that you have a child at TJ? Worried about labels again?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:34AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Twenty years ago or so, Marshall was under
> enrolled so the north end of Vienna, outside the
> town limits, was redistricted to go to Marshall.
> It never worked, they've always been under
> enrolled. This year they have 1,325 students in a
> facility that could hold 1,600+. This is one of
> their largest enrollments. They're tried
> everything to attract new students and out of
> boundary students, lots of academy courses, IB,
> computer certification programs, culinary program,
> hotel management, auto body, auto repair,
> international program, and they still can't get
> the enrollment up. Their SAT scores are the
> lowest of the schools around them, McLean,
> Madison, Langley. Their population of white
> students is 55%, while Langley is 73%, McLean 66%,
> Oakton 67% and Madison 74%. The white families
> who were redistricted to Marshall never showed up
> so their population has stayed right around 1,300
> students.
This redistricting was part of the same effort when Lou Zone cut Reston in half and described in someone else's earlier posting.
My relatives were so positive about Marshall and its relative new principal that my older son, my wife and I gave serious consideration to pupil-placing him there to take the advanced business and accounting classes
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 02:35AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Twenty years ago or so, Marshall was under
> enrolled so the north end of Vienna, outside the
> town limits, was redistricted to go to Marshall.
> It never worked, they've always been under
> enrolled. This year they have 1,325 students in a
> facility that could hold 1,600+. This is one of
> their largest enrollments. They're tried
> everything to attract new students and out of
> boundary students, lots of academy courses, IB,
> computer certification programs, culinary program,
> hotel management, auto body, auto repair,
> international program, and they still can't get
> the enrollment up. Their SAT scores are the
> lowest of the schools around them, McLean,
> Madison, Langley. Their population of white
> students is 55%, while Langley is 73%, McLean 66%,
> Oakton 67% and Madison 74%. The white families
> who were redistricted to Marshall never showed up
> so their population has stayed right around 1,300
> students.
This redistricting was part of the same effort when Lou Zone cut Reston in half and described in someone else's earlier posting.
My relatives were so positive about Marshall and its relative new principal that my older son, my wife and I gave serious consideration to pupil-placing him there to take the advanced business and accounting classes
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 02:35AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:43AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, Can you tell me what makes Marshall a
> program that makes you feel envious? What are
> they doing that SL isn't doing?
The principal was responsive to my relatives request for assistance on multiple occasions. The teachers were experienced, supportive and collegial with the parents with the aim of helping the nephews achieve their maximum potential. If the teacher was a jerk the principal "made straight the path."
Remember this was at the height of Railly's Reign of Terror when she wasn't talking to anyone and the great teachers were leaving in droves.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, Can you tell me what makes Marshall a
> program that makes you feel envious? What are
> they doing that SL isn't doing?
The principal was responsive to my relatives request for assistance on multiple occasions. The teachers were experienced, supportive and collegial with the parents with the aim of helping the nephews achieve their maximum potential. If the teacher was a jerk the principal "made straight the path."
Remember this was at the height of Railly's Reign of Terror when she wasn't talking to anyone and the great teachers were leaving in droves.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: October 31, 2007 03:02AM
>>>the new programs/courses can't be added UNLESS there is redistricting<<<
Why not? Of course new programs can be added to attract students. The school board can do anything they want. They could easily provide South Lakes with extra money and extra teachers to set up a new magnet program that would attract kids from other districts. That's exactly how they set up TJ.
TJ had some good teachers, and some less than great teachers, and a few who were fabulous. Madison has more good teachers and a couple of great teachers. Overall, TJ has a higher level of learner, a larger group of students dedicated to learning, but Madison often had the better teachers. Yes, teachers can make ALL the difference. Madison had a drunk teacher, falling down drunk, that took way to long to get rid of her, despite numerous complaints to the principal. Only when she injured herself falling down a entire flight of stairs and requiring an ambulance, was she removed from the classroom and sent to an office somewhere.
Why not? Of course new programs can be added to attract students. The school board can do anything they want. They could easily provide South Lakes with extra money and extra teachers to set up a new magnet program that would attract kids from other districts. That's exactly how they set up TJ.
TJ had some good teachers, and some less than great teachers, and a few who were fabulous. Madison has more good teachers and a couple of great teachers. Overall, TJ has a higher level of learner, a larger group of students dedicated to learning, but Madison often had the better teachers. Yes, teachers can make ALL the difference. Madison had a drunk teacher, falling down drunk, that took way to long to get rid of her, despite numerous complaints to the principal. Only when she injured herself falling down a entire flight of stairs and requiring an ambulance, was she removed from the classroom and sent to an office somewhere.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 31, 2007 07:36AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, the lastest enrollment numbers show Oakton
> over enrolled by 25 students and Madison by 35, so
> students will not be able to pupil place into
> either school. The excuse will be that there
> isn't room. All the AP schools around South Lakes
> are now over enrolled, except Centreville which
> has 43 empty seats and Herndon has 35.
>
> It would appear that staff has closed this method
> of exit from South Lakes.
except the enrollments are decling at many schools and if a group gets shifted out of somewhere(s), there has to be room somewhere(s). In total the schools are not overcrowded.
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, the lastest enrollment numbers show Oakton
> over enrolled by 25 students and Madison by 35, so
> students will not be able to pupil place into
> either school. The excuse will be that there
> isn't room. All the AP schools around South Lakes
> are now over enrolled, except Centreville which
> has 43 empty seats and Herndon has 35.
>
> It would appear that staff has closed this method
> of exit from South Lakes.
except the enrollments are decling at many schools and if a group gets shifted out of somewhere(s), there has to be room somewhere(s). In total the schools are not overcrowded.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 31, 2007 08:03AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps there are a few concerned about that.
> (I
> > really question the integrity of these
> anonymous
> > complainers).
> >
> > I can tell you for certain that the previous
> > results posted concerning the Franklin Farm
> > community (1%-3%) would choose South Lakes are
> > accurate. Personally, I know of no one that
> wants
> > to switch high schools.
>
> Perhaps they don't mention it in front of you for
> fear of being told they would be an idiot to send
> their child to a school like SL.
Exactly right, SLVerity, I know people from Fox Mill and Crossfield who are in favor of SL but keep their mouth shut when talking to neighbors, for just this reason.
Also SLVerity--Christine is not pandering to groups. If you read her blog, she does not say she is against redistricting. She believes that the process should be open and fair, and should include discussions about AP, but she is not promising no one will get redistricted. On curriculum issues, she is way ahead of Stu.
I find it interesting that she is Republican, yet the only person in the debate standing up for our underprivileged populations and saying they can and should be doing better. Stu says they are doing fine, even though Hunter Mill has the lowest performing students in those populations in FFX county.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 08:06AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps there are a few concerned about that.
> (I
> > really question the integrity of these
> anonymous
> > complainers).
> >
> > I can tell you for certain that the previous
> > results posted concerning the Franklin Farm
> > community (1%-3%) would choose South Lakes are
> > accurate. Personally, I know of no one that
> wants
> > to switch high schools.
>
> Perhaps they don't mention it in front of you for
> fear of being told they would be an idiot to send
> their child to a school like SL.
Exactly right, SLVerity, I know people from Fox Mill and Crossfield who are in favor of SL but keep their mouth shut when talking to neighbors, for just this reason.
Also SLVerity--Christine is not pandering to groups. If you read her blog, she does not say she is against redistricting. She believes that the process should be open and fair, and should include discussions about AP, but she is not promising no one will get redistricted. On curriculum issues, she is way ahead of Stu.
I find it interesting that she is Republican, yet the only person in the debate standing up for our underprivileged populations and saying they can and should be doing better. Stu says they are doing fine, even though Hunter Mill has the lowest performing students in those populations in FFX county.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 08:06AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 31, 2007 08:29AM
SL Verity - you make often make good points - but it would be helpful to refrain from emotionalism - such as stating that certain points are "insulting" or "offense". Having strident positions is not tantamount to insult or offense, and certainly merely stating that there is a significant preference for the AP program over the IB program for the affected population is far from "offensive" or "insulting", especially since it ignores the distinction fairly made that while IB is an excellent program for the right kind of kids, it is not the preferred approach for most of the transferor population. Put another way, merely holding an opinion that one program better meets the needs of the population than another is reasonable, and thereafter stating it is axiomatic that many of the same population (middle to upper middle class with deep concern for their children) would pupil place in the absence of a meaningful AP program is likewise reasonable.
But your last post reveals some insight as to why you are defensive. I can see from your post that South Lakes parents and supporters in effect do feel besieged, because they have been through a difficult time. And I find it striking that the kind of honest statements you relate only come about after strident debate and probing - things must have been very challenging at South Lakes. Let's assume your statement that only 50% of the affected parents care is accurate - my intuition is that you are spot on. But wow, that kind of parental involvement in in a well off suburb like Reston? How depressing. Profoundly depressing. And it really confirms my views on the cultural problems that exist in certain communities when it comes to education. Reston is a well off suburb that offers zillions of services and amenities that literally is as close to Sweden in America as it gets - generally (obviously there are certain individuals with life impairments) there's no real impediment to parental involvement - other than cultural ones. Again, how depressing, and it really explains just how badly the school wants, and needs, an influx of middle class students with a sense of an educational mission appurtenant. My view, oft stated, however, is that they won't in a non-transitory way obtain these students unless they really compete for them - such is the way of the world. Like it or not, the 1 to 3 percent opt to South Lakes factor in the Franklin Farm survey is real (and if the number is even 10 percent, it doesn't matter because that kind of statistical imbalance is really profound), and South Lakes really must compete for them as if they were a private school - a high challenge - but one that they must embrace. Pity or any appeal to an altruistic sense of social justice will not do it - it is their kids' education at stake - and don't easily expect parents to come along for the ride - that 50% factor doesn't scare parents in Oakton, etc. as much as it deeply disillusions them.
But your last post reveals some insight as to why you are defensive. I can see from your post that South Lakes parents and supporters in effect do feel besieged, because they have been through a difficult time. And I find it striking that the kind of honest statements you relate only come about after strident debate and probing - things must have been very challenging at South Lakes. Let's assume your statement that only 50% of the affected parents care is accurate - my intuition is that you are spot on. But wow, that kind of parental involvement in in a well off suburb like Reston? How depressing. Profoundly depressing. And it really confirms my views on the cultural problems that exist in certain communities when it comes to education. Reston is a well off suburb that offers zillions of services and amenities that literally is as close to Sweden in America as it gets - generally (obviously there are certain individuals with life impairments) there's no real impediment to parental involvement - other than cultural ones. Again, how depressing, and it really explains just how badly the school wants, and needs, an influx of middle class students with a sense of an educational mission appurtenant. My view, oft stated, however, is that they won't in a non-transitory way obtain these students unless they really compete for them - such is the way of the world. Like it or not, the 1 to 3 percent opt to South Lakes factor in the Franklin Farm survey is real (and if the number is even 10 percent, it doesn't matter because that kind of statistical imbalance is really profound), and South Lakes really must compete for them as if they were a private school - a high challenge - but one that they must embrace. Pity or any appeal to an altruistic sense of social justice will not do it - it is their kids' education at stake - and don't easily expect parents to come along for the ride - that 50% factor doesn't scare parents in Oakton, etc. as much as it deeply disillusions them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
farmer brown
()
Date: October 31, 2007 08:30AM
Man quit the OAKTON bashing, who cares if the SAT's are down start another post for that. Did you ever think that some kids just bomb the SAT the first time, inexperience, not prepared, whatever the case may be. As far as the Franklin Farm poll, for the record all residents had the opportunity to submit, of those that did overwhelmingly only 1-3% would consider SLHS. We will settle with the poor teaching and low SAT scores at Oakton. Leave us alone. Those that have positive feelings at or for SLHS great go there and enjoy, and we will do the same. You take IB and we will take AP it is a choice, that is the great thing about America the right to choose. Just like voting, please vote accordingly a vote for democrat gibson or smith will not allow you to choose SLHS or Oakton, they (STUpid and Kathy) will choose for you. we must not allow this to happen. Last night I received a call from someone encouraging a NO VOTE for Smith the caller was very well informed and gave me some great information. Keep calling folks it is working
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
IBgood
()
Date: October 31, 2007 08:52AM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > We have discussed IB. Most kids I know at SL
> do
> > take " a handful" of IB classes, just like AP,
> > mixed with Honors classes. Not sure why you
> can't
> > accept this. Also, Thomas' experiences are
> only
> > one. Other people have posted they don't have
> a
> > problem with timing of results.
>
>
> Re: Quantum's previous comments and others about
> IB/AP and pupil placing. Bruce Butler has
> specifically said to a group of 7 of my neighbors
> who I will get to post, if necessary, (in effect
> this isn't hearsay) - that he would add AP classes
> but needed the numbers of students to do so. In
> other words, he needs the volume of transferors
> who would be interested in adding AP classes to
> actually add AP. With the current population of
> 1400, he cannot afford to have both programs - but
> with 500-700 more kids he will.
I am one of "old timers" neighbors mentioned above. I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did say that if enough interested students enrolled he would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > We have discussed IB. Most kids I know at SL
> do
> > take " a handful" of IB classes, just like AP,
> > mixed with Honors classes. Not sure why you
> can't
> > accept this. Also, Thomas' experiences are
> only
> > one. Other people have posted they don't have
> a
> > problem with timing of results.
>
>
> Re: Quantum's previous comments and others about
> IB/AP and pupil placing. Bruce Butler has
> specifically said to a group of 7 of my neighbors
> who I will get to post, if necessary, (in effect
> this isn't hearsay) - that he would add AP classes
> but needed the numbers of students to do so. In
> other words, he needs the volume of transferors
> who would be interested in adding AP classes to
> actually add AP. With the current population of
> 1400, he cannot afford to have both programs - but
> with 500-700 more kids he will.
I am one of "old timers" neighbors mentioned above. I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did say that if enough interested students enrolled he would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:04AM
IBgood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> say that if enough interested students enrolled he
> would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP classes that weren't redundant of IB classes. Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is there really anything left for an AP course? Isn't this promise illusory?
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 09:04AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> say that if enough interested students enrolled he
> would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP classes that weren't redundant of IB classes. Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is there really anything left for an AP course? Isn't this promise illusory?
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 09:04AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting - AP @SLHS
Posted by:
IBgood
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:14AM
It will be very easy to implement AP at SL - the IB program is way more advanced than AP. The teachers certified to teach IB can do AP with no problem.
The teachers I have talked to like what they do and will have no resistance to it.
The teachers I have talked to like what they do and will have no resistance to it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:37AM
SLVerity:
I sleep more soundly knowing that you are fighting the good fight in the wee hours.
Quantam:
You often profess to raise issues and to speak directly to truth, but -- in fact -- your posts often suggest and imply the same things that the SLHS community has heard and is responding to: the paternalistic, patronizing view that we -- parents, kids, etc -- are besieged, doomed, negligent, foolish, and burdened by our own sclerotic inertia.
It just ain't so, no matter how bluntly or impliedly that message is delivered.
A fair discussion of SLHS includes the acknowledgement that:
. The building design was awful (hence, the renovation; parents, teachers, and even the FCPS administrators recognized this, and finally have done something about it).
. Realista Rodriguez was inept and harmed the school as its principal. Hence, she was removed, albeit in a slower-than-ideal way, after a significant amount of parental and community pressure mounted (was Stu Gibson at fault in some way? I don't know).
I note that many of us weren't in awe of the previous Hughes Middle school principal and sought to get someone more inclined to do, than talk, and to integrate with SLHS. That appears to have resulted in a very positive and constructive change.
. SLHS has significant blocs of African-Americans, limited-English speaking/ESOL kids, free subsidized lunch-ers,and Special Ed kids. That's a fact and presents particular issues and -- on occasion -- challenges.
But -- and I'll do what you frequently do: talk about personal experience -- I went to a high-ranking public high school that had numerous Merit Scholars, top-university acceptances, AP/honors, great facilities.....and the same kind of issues/challenges as SLHS; and SLHS is a far more harmonious, positive, inclusive, and safe place of learning -- with comparable academic results using the same benchmarks.
You frequently talk about competition. But robust competition in the marketplace requires valid, veriable information. In this "fight", the SLHS community has been trying to provide the facts about the school and its direction, so people can make a sound decision about what the school is -- now -- based on facts. That has not been easy. So some of us will continue to state the reality as we experience and see it....that may mean that I speak very positively of SLHS, including the Principal and the faculty, whereas Thomas More speaks very positively of the SLHS kids and community, but not of the administration. But I think we agree that the core -- the kids themselves -- are as good and as capable as anywhere in NoVa.
Finally, in my profession, I have found that the most successful participants have blended solid academic work with broad/diverse life experience. They tend to be the best negotiators, the most adaptable, and quickest in getting to a final deal or result. Often, the people who have the best pedigree aren't willing to address the realities of what needs to be done, b/c it doesn't conform with what they require or expect. But life isn't like that, and the sooner that kids realize that, the better.
So, in closing, I repeat: SLHS is not a war zone or a jungle, and it does give kids wonderful opportunities to thrive academically, athletically and socially.....in a very competitive environment. I see it every day through my own kids, whom I adore and protect as zealously as anyone else out there.
See ya.
I sleep more soundly knowing that you are fighting the good fight in the wee hours.
Quantam:
You often profess to raise issues and to speak directly to truth, but -- in fact -- your posts often suggest and imply the same things that the SLHS community has heard and is responding to: the paternalistic, patronizing view that we -- parents, kids, etc -- are besieged, doomed, negligent, foolish, and burdened by our own sclerotic inertia.
It just ain't so, no matter how bluntly or impliedly that message is delivered.
A fair discussion of SLHS includes the acknowledgement that:
. The building design was awful (hence, the renovation; parents, teachers, and even the FCPS administrators recognized this, and finally have done something about it).
. Realista Rodriguez was inept and harmed the school as its principal. Hence, she was removed, albeit in a slower-than-ideal way, after a significant amount of parental and community pressure mounted (was Stu Gibson at fault in some way? I don't know).
I note that many of us weren't in awe of the previous Hughes Middle school principal and sought to get someone more inclined to do, than talk, and to integrate with SLHS. That appears to have resulted in a very positive and constructive change.
. SLHS has significant blocs of African-Americans, limited-English speaking/ESOL kids, free subsidized lunch-ers,and Special Ed kids. That's a fact and presents particular issues and -- on occasion -- challenges.
But -- and I'll do what you frequently do: talk about personal experience -- I went to a high-ranking public high school that had numerous Merit Scholars, top-university acceptances, AP/honors, great facilities.....and the same kind of issues/challenges as SLHS; and SLHS is a far more harmonious, positive, inclusive, and safe place of learning -- with comparable academic results using the same benchmarks.
You frequently talk about competition. But robust competition in the marketplace requires valid, veriable information. In this "fight", the SLHS community has been trying to provide the facts about the school and its direction, so people can make a sound decision about what the school is -- now -- based on facts. That has not been easy. So some of us will continue to state the reality as we experience and see it....that may mean that I speak very positively of SLHS, including the Principal and the faculty, whereas Thomas More speaks very positively of the SLHS kids and community, but not of the administration. But I think we agree that the core -- the kids themselves -- are as good and as capable as anywhere in NoVa.
Finally, in my profession, I have found that the most successful participants have blended solid academic work with broad/diverse life experience. They tend to be the best negotiators, the most adaptable, and quickest in getting to a final deal or result. Often, the people who have the best pedigree aren't willing to address the realities of what needs to be done, b/c it doesn't conform with what they require or expect. But life isn't like that, and the sooner that kids realize that, the better.
So, in closing, I repeat: SLHS is not a war zone or a jungle, and it does give kids wonderful opportunities to thrive academically, athletically and socially.....in a very competitive environment. I see it every day through my own kids, whom I adore and protect as zealously as anyone else out there.
See ya.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:46AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBgood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> > say that if enough interested students enrolled
> he
> > would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
>
> And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP
> classes that weren't redundant of IB classes.
> Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is
> there really anything left for an AP course?
> Isn't this promise illusory?
And did Mr. Butler have a timeline? I expect that this should accompany the promise. or could it be an open-ended promise? A full compliment of robust AP courses comparable to other AP schools in this study won't show up overnight in a box delivered by FedEx.
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBgood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> > say that if enough interested students enrolled
> he
> > would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
>
> And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP
> classes that weren't redundant of IB classes.
> Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is
> there really anything left for an AP course?
> Isn't this promise illusory?
And did Mr. Butler have a timeline? I expect that this should accompany the promise. or could it be an open-ended promise? A full compliment of robust AP courses comparable to other AP schools in this study won't show up overnight in a box delivered by FedEx.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:06AM
I think you're missing the point on the IB thing. If you don't have a real AP program, many of the good students will pupil place out of South Lakes as per county policy ... IB-leavin-now
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:27AM
SLHS Padre - I understand your perspective - and find it actually comforting that I moved you to write such a strident piece. It gets thing out in the open - and helps fight the right kind of fight against the various forms of dumbing down that have infected American education for the past few decades. You see, its not that schools like South Lakes have challenging students - most all schools in Fairfax do - South Lakes just has a few more - it is the means by which the schools address these problems that matters. And dumbing down the curricula, dooming the affected students with a culture of low expectations (the reason why I queried as to why a low performing principal would last), tolerating discipline issues (a scorecard which I think South Lakes is doing well on right now, by the way) and otherwise demanding less of students are all actions which: i) reflect the path of least resistance; ii) actually drive away performing students, and iii) degrade the essential fabric of a community. It also is a recipe for disaster in a knowledge based economy - period - which we will all pay for, and in fact are doing so now. The cultural problems in certain communities is by far and away the biggest cause of income disparity in this country, and they need to be faced head on.
I also concur that community feedback is that the new principal is pushing things in the right direction, so any criticism needs to be balanced.
And I find the plea as to the unfairness of it all - that is - the "real" facts not being readily understood a little unsettling. You are not victims - if the facts are wrong (and I agree that the kids are generally good kids), get them out in the marketplace- compete, make them well known, prepare for the future - be proactive - and don't make it appear that bureaucrats should make the case for you. Do you really think that people are attracted to pity, or to assertions that guys like me are mean and intolerant? If you and others have a case, make it.
Again, I find your general comments comforting - I have long taken solace in plucking the status quo. And there is no status quo with more inertia than the diversity and public education crowd. This doesn't mean your points are invalid - many of them are valid - but again, it is comforting to see such a strident reaction, because when the next issue arises with a question as to "Why are we tolerating this?", it might be understood in a less politically correct and far more fact laden context. Lost in all of the back and forth is a fundamental point - a work ethic counts - it really counts - more than anything else in education, and we should demand it of everyone.
And I don't think you are entirely correct about defining success. I agree in a number of organizations that those can get along with others in a broader sense do well - but that is if viewed from the perspective of those seeking to be a CEO or head administrator and the like. But in many fields, whether it be medicine, law, or entertainment or athletics (including the Olympic athletes I have competed against), they tend to be far from balanced and are exceedingly single minded and insanely competitive and indeed lack the tolerance which you aver is necessary for "success". By your definition these types are not successes, which is not the case, and when it comes to the individual level, what counts is being happy and that is impossible to measure without really knowing that individual. But such is the problem with statements borne from personal attacks, because they stray from any recognized source of data or empirical analysis and lack a definitional context.
Cheers
I also concur that community feedback is that the new principal is pushing things in the right direction, so any criticism needs to be balanced.
And I find the plea as to the unfairness of it all - that is - the "real" facts not being readily understood a little unsettling. You are not victims - if the facts are wrong (and I agree that the kids are generally good kids), get them out in the marketplace- compete, make them well known, prepare for the future - be proactive - and don't make it appear that bureaucrats should make the case for you. Do you really think that people are attracted to pity, or to assertions that guys like me are mean and intolerant? If you and others have a case, make it.
Again, I find your general comments comforting - I have long taken solace in plucking the status quo. And there is no status quo with more inertia than the diversity and public education crowd. This doesn't mean your points are invalid - many of them are valid - but again, it is comforting to see such a strident reaction, because when the next issue arises with a question as to "Why are we tolerating this?", it might be understood in a less politically correct and far more fact laden context. Lost in all of the back and forth is a fundamental point - a work ethic counts - it really counts - more than anything else in education, and we should demand it of everyone.
And I don't think you are entirely correct about defining success. I agree in a number of organizations that those can get along with others in a broader sense do well - but that is if viewed from the perspective of those seeking to be a CEO or head administrator and the like. But in many fields, whether it be medicine, law, or entertainment or athletics (including the Olympic athletes I have competed against), they tend to be far from balanced and are exceedingly single minded and insanely competitive and indeed lack the tolerance which you aver is necessary for "success". By your definition these types are not successes, which is not the case, and when it comes to the individual level, what counts is being happy and that is impossible to measure without really knowing that individual. But such is the problem with statements borne from personal attacks, because they stray from any recognized source of data or empirical analysis and lack a definitional context.
Cheers
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:28AM
From Notre Dame Prep (Mi) -- Notre Dame Preparatory School has received recognition as one of the best 50 Catholic secondary schools in the United States (2005 & 2007).
International Baccalaureate program and AP. Can they live in the same house?
Submitted by lolszamowski on Wed, 10/17/2007 - 10:36.
As an AP teacher, I have been blessed with substantive content and students eager to accept the academic challenge. But, I have found myself recently reaching beyond the scope of daily lessons, and integrating course content which allows the students to recognize themselves as world citizens. Elevating the Notre Dame Prep students' academic capabilities has never been an issue; adjusting their perspective of their place in this world has.
The International Baccalaureate Programme, in its purest form, allows students the depth and breath of our current academic programs with the added recognition of an international perspective.
I have visited schools, both private and public, and witnessed first-hand the co-existence of Advanced Placement programs and IB programs. I have spoken to teachers, students, parents, and college educators who all proclaim the enormous benefits of the well-rounded IB Diploma student. Because we are a school which runs an academically challenging program, including AP and Honors classes, IB will allow our students to be academically rich as well as citizens of the world community.
I'm proud to be part of the Advanced Placement program. It's been quite an honor to travel each spring to the annual AP reading where hundreds of high school and college educators meet to evaluate the students' achievements. These successful courses, which will continue to run at NDP, help to define our school as an academic institution. Yet, watching our school move beyond the traditional into the broader scope of international education makes me proud to be a member of this school community.
Sharon Derico
International Baccalaureate program and AP. Can they live in the same house?
Submitted by lolszamowski on Wed, 10/17/2007 - 10:36.
As an AP teacher, I have been blessed with substantive content and students eager to accept the academic challenge. But, I have found myself recently reaching beyond the scope of daily lessons, and integrating course content which allows the students to recognize themselves as world citizens. Elevating the Notre Dame Prep students' academic capabilities has never been an issue; adjusting their perspective of their place in this world has.
The International Baccalaureate Programme, in its purest form, allows students the depth and breath of our current academic programs with the added recognition of an international perspective.
I have visited schools, both private and public, and witnessed first-hand the co-existence of Advanced Placement programs and IB programs. I have spoken to teachers, students, parents, and college educators who all proclaim the enormous benefits of the well-rounded IB Diploma student. Because we are a school which runs an academically challenging program, including AP and Honors classes, IB will allow our students to be academically rich as well as citizens of the world community.
I'm proud to be part of the Advanced Placement program. It's been quite an honor to travel each spring to the annual AP reading where hundreds of high school and college educators meet to evaluate the students' achievements. These successful courses, which will continue to run at NDP, help to define our school as an academic institution. Yet, watching our school move beyond the traditional into the broader scope of international education makes me proud to be a member of this school community.
Sharon Derico
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:45AM
Thanks, but still you imply that we are and have been inert and seeking pity. F--- that! We don't want or seek pity. Indeed, we just want to have all the facts out and to "balance" the criticism. I am not passive, and I don't like it when people slime anyone -- intentionally or otherwise -- by reference to things that are not so.
On your final point, I also have seen numerous highly-motivated, single-minded focused, "insanely-competitive" people, and I often do consider them to be impressively successful. Don't suggest that I don't value ability or those who strive to succeed. I am quite far from a socialist or Marxist, I assure you, and I agree that the world needs people who do it alone or in a small universe -- scientists, MDs, artist, or athletes.
My point is that many people who operate only in the elite institutions -- without a dose of real life experience -- falter or are stymied when confronted by common, every-day problems and issues, including people who are different from them. The type of person you identify often will -- by sheer will or ability - address the issue successfully and proceed.....but there are many who don't do well, b/c they can't function once they get out of a cocoon.
On your final point, I also have seen numerous highly-motivated, single-minded focused, "insanely-competitive" people, and I often do consider them to be impressively successful. Don't suggest that I don't value ability or those who strive to succeed. I am quite far from a socialist or Marxist, I assure you, and I agree that the world needs people who do it alone or in a small universe -- scientists, MDs, artist, or athletes.
My point is that many people who operate only in the elite institutions -- without a dose of real life experience -- falter or are stymied when confronted by common, every-day problems and issues, including people who are different from them. The type of person you identify often will -- by sheer will or ability - address the issue successfully and proceed.....but there are many who don't do well, b/c they can't function once they get out of a cocoon.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:45AM
farmer brown Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We
> will settle with the poor teaching and low SAT
> scores at Oakton. Leave us alone.
Did you read what you posted or do you really believe this? Because we would rather be in Oakton "with poor teaching and low SAT scores" than the alternative?
-------------------------------------------------------
> We
> will settle with the poor teaching and low SAT
> scores at Oakton. Leave us alone.
Did you read what you posted or do you really believe this? Because we would rather be in Oakton "with poor teaching and low SAT scores" than the alternative?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:04PM
For those who really want to LEARN about IB -
For the record - IB was implemented at George Mason over 25 years ago.
Their population (from the internet, not validated) are
76% white
11% asian/pacific islander
8% hispanic
4% black
SAT scores -
Math 2006 577 2007 587
Critical reading 2006 568 2007 586
Writing 2006 564 2007 564
Here is an article from the Falls Church Free Press about the anniversary of the program. http://www.fcnp.com/539/ib.htm
From the article -
"Early on, though a number of students took IB classes very few actually attempted to proceed to achieve an IB diploma. After two years, only one student, Joshua Scharff, had taken all the required courses necessary to receive his IB diploma.
A main limiting factor was the narrow range of IB courses being taught at Mason. In order to get an IB diploma a student must complete three higher level courses, consisting of two complete years worth of study, and three lower level courses, a single year for each course. In the early days of IB at George Mason only six subjects were being taught in IB, so unless those specific six subjects all appealed to a student, it was impossible to earn an IB diploma.
Over the years the school has added to its course selection. Now it offers over 40 different IB courses, including computer science, business, and the arts.
Snee said that it wasn’t until the second half of the 1980s that the IB program at George Mason would hit its stride. By that time Snee had become the IB coordinator for George Mason and started adding more classes.
They had also, by that time, begun offering the classes to the general school population, rather than specifically to the top students, something that would prove invaluable for quality of education in the school.
Snee said that even from the start he noticed that as he began teaching IB courses, it affected every class he taught, whether IB or standard. Since IB can only be taken in the junior and senior years, he was teaching all his first and second year classes preparing them for the IB program, whether they actually planned to take the elevated level or not.
And it wasn’t just about pushing the students harder. It was about changing the focus of the courses. As a Spanish teacher, Snee said, IB required that he teach not only the language but also the literature, culture and history of the countries that spoke those languages.
As a result he discovered that more and more he had to teach not only about the words but about the world that created those words.
This new way of teaching ultimately transferred to all his classes, not just his IB courses. He said that the same was true for the teachers in other subject areas, such as English, history and science.
“It really was an example of a rising tide lifting all ships,” Snee said."
For the record - IB was implemented at George Mason over 25 years ago.
Their population (from the internet, not validated) are
76% white
11% asian/pacific islander
8% hispanic
4% black
SAT scores -
Math 2006 577 2007 587
Critical reading 2006 568 2007 586
Writing 2006 564 2007 564
Here is an article from the Falls Church Free Press about the anniversary of the program. http://www.fcnp.com/539/ib.htm
From the article -
"Early on, though a number of students took IB classes very few actually attempted to proceed to achieve an IB diploma. After two years, only one student, Joshua Scharff, had taken all the required courses necessary to receive his IB diploma.
A main limiting factor was the narrow range of IB courses being taught at Mason. In order to get an IB diploma a student must complete three higher level courses, consisting of two complete years worth of study, and three lower level courses, a single year for each course. In the early days of IB at George Mason only six subjects were being taught in IB, so unless those specific six subjects all appealed to a student, it was impossible to earn an IB diploma.
Over the years the school has added to its course selection. Now it offers over 40 different IB courses, including computer science, business, and the arts.
Snee said that it wasn’t until the second half of the 1980s that the IB program at George Mason would hit its stride. By that time Snee had become the IB coordinator for George Mason and started adding more classes.
They had also, by that time, begun offering the classes to the general school population, rather than specifically to the top students, something that would prove invaluable for quality of education in the school.
Snee said that even from the start he noticed that as he began teaching IB courses, it affected every class he taught, whether IB or standard. Since IB can only be taken in the junior and senior years, he was teaching all his first and second year classes preparing them for the IB program, whether they actually planned to take the elevated level or not.
And it wasn’t just about pushing the students harder. It was about changing the focus of the courses. As a Spanish teacher, Snee said, IB required that he teach not only the language but also the literature, culture and history of the countries that spoke those languages.
As a result he discovered that more and more he had to teach not only about the words but about the world that created those words.
This new way of teaching ultimately transferred to all his classes, not just his IB courses. He said that the same was true for the teachers in other subject areas, such as English, history and science.
“It really was an example of a rising tide lifting all ships,” Snee said."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:06PM
For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with good teachers when compared with others in the county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com, schooldigger.com.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:14PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site
> SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com,
> schooldigger.com.
Just pointing out that your scores have taken a significant dip in the last two years. Perhaps Oakton is not infallible.
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site
> SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com,
> schooldigger.com.
Just pointing out that your scores have taken a significant dip in the last two years. Perhaps Oakton is not infallible.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:14PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site
> SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com,
> schooldigger.com.
I did not say otherwise; it was the Oakton parent :) I just called them on it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site
> SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com,
> schooldigger.com.
I did not say otherwise; it was the Oakton parent :) I just called them on it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
IBgood
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:23PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBgood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> > say that if enough interested students enrolled
> he
> > would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
>
> And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP
> classes that weren't redundant of IB classes.
> Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is
> there really anything left for an AP course?
> Isn't this promise illusory?
Were you at the meeting - No you weren't - your additional comments have no value.
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBgood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> > say that if enough interested students enrolled
> he
> > would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
>
> And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP
> classes that weren't redundant of IB classes.
> Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is
> there really anything left for an AP course?
> Isn't this promise illusory?
Were you at the meeting - No you weren't - your additional comments have no value.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:39PM
Thomas,
Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of facts and being a politico. If he says they will offer AP with the redistricted students, then you need to take him at his word and start negotiating, not undercut him. Really, I think your campaign to be rid of him is not going to fly, given his popularity. Whatever wrongs you think he did come across as petty and whining. He is much better than what came before, and he has a lot to overcome, so give him a break.
Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of facts and being a politico. If he says they will offer AP with the redistricted students, then you need to take him at his word and start negotiating, not undercut him. Really, I think your campaign to be rid of him is not going to fly, given his popularity. Whatever wrongs you think he did come across as petty and whining. He is much better than what came before, and he has a lot to overcome, so give him a break.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:43PM
Thomas,
Also, the word from Stu is that there is affordable housing south of the toll road and free lunch students come from there. I'm awaiting more details.
Also, the word from Stu is that there is affordable housing south of the toll road and free lunch students come from there. I'm awaiting more details.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:45PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county.
We have all seen the ratings, we know.
But what does that mean? Why is Oakton a highly rated school? Because Oakton parents are so much more involved in their children's live, Oakton has better teachers, they care more about education than Reston parents, they volunteer in the school, they "market" the school better, Reston is a failed social experiment, blah, blah, blah?
Is that truly what you believe? Have you ever thought deeply about this - really? Have you ever looked at the socio-economics of TJ, Langley, Woodson, Madison, Oakton? It is purely a balance of socio-economics!
There is a direct correlation between test scores and family income! Add more families with higher income to SLHS to balance out the underclass, and the test scores rise.
This has been studied ad nauseum - great teachers, smaller classes, excellent leadership, all of these are window dressing. Socio-economics are the foundation.
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county.
We have all seen the ratings, we know.
But what does that mean? Why is Oakton a highly rated school? Because Oakton parents are so much more involved in their children's live, Oakton has better teachers, they care more about education than Reston parents, they volunteer in the school, they "market" the school better, Reston is a failed social experiment, blah, blah, blah?
Is that truly what you believe? Have you ever thought deeply about this - really? Have you ever looked at the socio-economics of TJ, Langley, Woodson, Madison, Oakton? It is purely a balance of socio-economics!
There is a direct correlation between test scores and family income! Add more families with higher income to SLHS to balance out the underclass, and the test scores rise.
This has been studied ad nauseum - great teachers, smaller classes, excellent leadership, all of these are window dressing. Socio-economics are the foundation.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:51PM
IBgood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
He made the same statement at the PTA mtg with the additional caveat about no redundant courses. Others on this blog were at the PTA meeting and heard both halves of the statement. Ignore it if you want but next time you see him ask Bruce what AP classes he had in mind.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
He made the same statement at the PTA mtg with the additional caveat about no redundant courses. Others on this blog were at the PTA meeting and heard both halves of the statement. Ignore it if you want but next time you see him ask Bruce what AP classes he had in mind.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: October 31, 2007 12:52PM
A better ranking would take into consideration the free/reduced lunch population and normalize test scores.
Just like the Challenge Index - it now has more validity since Jay Matthews has factored in the results of those who actually took the IB and AP tests. Previously it was just the number of students who took AP/IB versus the total population. Some schools pushed more students into the programs without a measure of the actual teaching that was taking place.
Just like the Challenge Index - it now has more validity since Jay Matthews has factored in the results of those who actually took the IB and AP tests. Previously it was just the number of students who took AP/IB versus the total population. Some schools pushed more students into the programs without a measure of the actual teaching that was taking place.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:13PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of
> facts and being a politico.
He's very politically savy. How do you think he got that award from the central office for "best first year principal." I give him far more credit than that.
> If he says they will
> offer AP with the redistricted students, then you
> need to take him at his word and start
> negotiating, not undercut him.
Why?
> Really, I think
> your campaign to be rid of him is not going to
> fly, given his popularity.
Do you think he's popular with the parents of the sophomore who's being overloaded by a tyrant of an IB English teacher of whom I reported yesterday on this blog. Do you think his complete dismissal of their concerns is going to help the popularity of IB.
Do you think he's popular with the family of the boy in the wheelchair who couldn't get a bus with a wheel chair lift for a ten days because Arrington ignored them and Bruce's voicemail box was full. Why is Arrignton still at SL? Where did Dave Dalton go?
Do you think he's popular with the parents of the BSR student whose concerns about their child not getting the help she needed to overcome her reading problems were dismissed by his claiming that BSR is "a glorified study hall."
It's whining and complaining when it's not your child.
Get back to me when you need his help and he blows you off.
> He
> is much better than what came before, and he has a
> lot to overcome, so give him a break.
I acknowledge he's better than Railly but a lamppost would fill that bill because the abuse would stop.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:23PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of
> facts and being a politico.
He's very politically savy. How do you think he got that award from the central office for "best first year principal." I give him far more credit than that.
> If he says they will
> offer AP with the redistricted students, then you
> need to take him at his word and start
> negotiating, not undercut him.
Why?
> Really, I think
> your campaign to be rid of him is not going to
> fly, given his popularity.
Do you think he's popular with the parents of the sophomore who's being overloaded by a tyrant of an IB English teacher of whom I reported yesterday on this blog. Do you think his complete dismissal of their concerns is going to help the popularity of IB.
Do you think he's popular with the family of the boy in the wheelchair who couldn't get a bus with a wheel chair lift for a ten days because Arrington ignored them and Bruce's voicemail box was full. Why is Arrignton still at SL? Where did Dave Dalton go?
Do you think he's popular with the parents of the BSR student whose concerns about their child not getting the help she needed to overcome her reading problems were dismissed by his claiming that BSR is "a glorified study hall."
It's whining and complaining when it's not your child.
Get back to me when you need his help and he blows you off.
> He
> is much better than what came before, and he has a
> lot to overcome, so give him a break.
I acknowledge he's better than Railly but a lamppost would fill that bill because the abuse would stop.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:23PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 01:15PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Also, the word from Stu is that there is
> affordable housing south of the toll road and free
> lunch students come from there. I'm awaiting more
> details.
I look forward to those details also. Hopefully you'll be able to share them before the first town mtg.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Also, the word from Stu is that there is
> affordable housing south of the toll road and free
> lunch students come from there. I'm awaiting more
> details.
I look forward to those details also. Hopefully you'll be able to share them before the first town mtg.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
truth
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:04PM
let's get to the point:
STU MUST GO so should SMITH we need to vote these two loooosers out. Get some new blood in there that cares about us the families that live and stay in the community. You can't spell STUPID without stu
STU MUST GO so should SMITH we need to vote these two loooosers out. Get some new blood in there that cares about us the families that live and stay in the community. You can't spell STUPID without stu
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 31, 2007 02:29PM
Anyone,
How do we find the course selections for South Lakes?
How do we find the course selections for South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 03:08PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone,
>
> How do we find the course selections for South
> Lakes?
I'm looking for the course catalogue they gave to the students last year to sign up for this year's courses. It's in the house somewhere.
The only problem is that there are courses listed that weren't offered. I specifically remember economics was listed but not really offered.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone,
>
> How do we find the course selections for South
> Lakes?
I'm looking for the course catalogue they gave to the students last year to sign up for this year's courses. It's in the house somewhere.
The only problem is that there are courses listed that weren't offered. I specifically remember economics was listed but not really offered.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
resource allocation
()
Date: October 31, 2007 03:18PM
a good way to judge a school is how many who can go do go---FCPS has pupil placement numbers by school and reason on it's website for this year. Then if you got the special ed numbers plus TJ plus private school I think the desirability of a school could be seen. With some more leave than pupil place. When they were bussing all the South County kids to Hayfield a lot were in private school and I think they forgot to add in the GTC kids in middle school
FCPS better get it's act together and get real numbers or they could actually verload South Lakes. No matter what Butler is a better principal than found at some schools...big problem in FCPS human resources with not firing people.
FCPS better get it's act together and get real numbers or they could actually verload South Lakes. No matter what Butler is a better principal than found at some schools...big problem in FCPS human resources with not firing people.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: October 31, 2007 03:27PM
truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> let's get to the point:
>
> STU MUST GO so should SMITH we need to vote
> these two loooosers out. Get some new blood in
> there that cares about us the families that live
> and stay in the community. You can't spell
> STUPID without stu
Why specifically? Because they want to redistrict your school or do you have a specific example of why they are losers?
Over the last few years, in the Hunter Mill district, I have seen -
Elementary school - totally renovated, smart board in every classroom, addition of full day kindergarten
Middle school - renovation, new principal
High School - new principal, renovation, rising SAT scores while others are on decline
It would take a lot more than a measly $12,000/year for me to take on the job of school board rep. in this county.
-------------------------------------------------------
> let's get to the point:
>
> STU MUST GO so should SMITH we need to vote
> these two loooosers out. Get some new blood in
> there that cares about us the families that live
> and stay in the community. You can't spell
> STUPID without stu
Why specifically? Because they want to redistrict your school or do you have a specific example of why they are losers?
Over the last few years, in the Hunter Mill district, I have seen -
Elementary school - totally renovated, smart board in every classroom, addition of full day kindergarten
Middle school - renovation, new principal
High School - new principal, renovation, rising SAT scores while others are on decline
It would take a lot more than a measly $12,000/year for me to take on the job of school board rep. in this county.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: October 31, 2007 03:40PM
Reports from Robinson IB parents:
The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman orientation and class registration at Tech was in late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test grades yet. The kid had to take the regular freshman classes.
In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given up on the IB diploma because they are being crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have to take freshman history in senior year. So many seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program this year that Robinson had to create a freshman history class populated entirely by seniors.
If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can have the families post on this blog.
"I don't write the news, I just report it."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 03:57PM by Thomas More.
The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman orientation and class registration at Tech was in late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test grades yet. The kid had to take the regular freshman classes.
In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given up on the IB diploma because they are being crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have to take freshman history in senior year. So many seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program this year that Robinson had to create a freshman history class populated entirely by seniors.
If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can have the families post on this blog.
"I don't write the news, I just report it."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 03:57PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 31, 2007 03:48PM
Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Elementary school - totally renovated, smart board
> in every classroom, addition of full day
> kindergarten
> Middle school - renovation, new principal
> High School - new principal, renovation, rising
> SAT scores while others are on decline
>
> Many of the smart boards you see in every classroom are there courtesy of huge fundraising efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school board members
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Elementary school - totally renovated, smart board
> in every classroom, addition of full day
> kindergarten
> Middle school - renovation, new principal
> High School - new principal, renovation, rising
> SAT scores while others are on decline
>
> Many of the smart boards you see in every classroom are there courtesy of huge fundraising efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school board members
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: October 31, 2007 05:06PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me the money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> board
> > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > kindergarten
> > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > High School - new principal, renovation, rising
> > SAT scores while others are on decline
> >
> > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> classroom are there courtesy of huge fundraising
> efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school board
> members
Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came from renovation money and school's technology designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok, both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me the money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> board
> > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > kindergarten
> > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > High School - new principal, renovation, rising
> > SAT scores while others are on decline
> >
> > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> classroom are there courtesy of huge fundraising
> efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school board
> members
Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came from renovation money and school's technology designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok, both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 31, 2007 05:31PM
Happy Halloween to all...
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Time to Change the Guards
()
Date: October 31, 2007 05:35PM
How about while under the mismanagement of STUpid Gibson we've been subject to 5 boundary changes in 9 years? How about that he doesn't give a crap about our community and continues to subject us to these stressful boundary meetings every 2 years? How about that he never responds to emails? How about under his "leadership" the Hunter Mill district is the worst performing in Fairfax County?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 31, 2007 05:55PM
Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >
> > > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> > board
> > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > kindergarten
> > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> rising
> > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > >
> > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> fundraising
> > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> board
> > members
>
> Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came
> from renovation money and school's technology
> designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok,
> both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).
That is not true for all schools. I am well aware of how certain schools earned their money to purchase smart boards and it was neither of the sources you attribute.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >
> > > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> > board
> > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > kindergarten
> > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> rising
> > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > >
> > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> fundraising
> > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> board
> > members
>
> Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came
> from renovation money and school's technology
> designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok,
> both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).
That is not true for all schools. I am well aware of how certain schools earned their money to purchase smart boards and it was neither of the sources you attribute.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 31, 2007 05:58PM
Time to Change the Guards Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about while under the mismanagement of STUpid
> Gibson we've been subject to 5 boundary changes in
> 9 years? How about that he doesn't give a crap
> about our community and continues to subject us to
> these stressful boundary meetings every 2 years?
> How about that he never responds to emails? How
> about under his "leadership" the Hunter Mill
> district is the worst performing in Fairfax
> County?
But I like Stu's picture above, that is what he'll look like dawn Nov. 7!
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about while under the mismanagement of STUpid
> Gibson we've been subject to 5 boundary changes in
> 9 years? How about that he doesn't give a crap
> about our community and continues to subject us to
> these stressful boundary meetings every 2 years?
> How about that he never responds to emails? How
> about under his "leadership" the Hunter Mill
> district is the worst performing in Fairfax
> County?
But I like Stu's picture above, that is what he'll look like dawn Nov. 7!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
124C41
()
Date: October 31, 2007 05:58PM
After diligent research, I find that I live in the richest congressional district in the nation (the Eleventh). I also confirmed that my little corner of this district appears to have been gerrymandered so I no longer vote at the school a block from my home, but at a church a mile away. While I cannot vote for the school board members in your district, in this thread, I can vote, of course, for three of the at-large members. Your recommendations will help me. I note that the candidates are all "independent."
I found a sample ballot at http://www.vote-va.org/Ballot.aspx
And more detailed information at http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/eb/upcoming.htm#School
I found a sample ballot at http://www.vote-va.org/Ballot.aspx
And more detailed information at http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/eb/upcoming.htm#School
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 31, 2007 06:00PM
Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >
> > > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> > board
> > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > kindergarten
> > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> rising
> > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > >
> > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> fundraising
> > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> board
> > members
>
> Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came
> from renovation money and school's technology
> designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok,
> both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).
I forgot to ask, were you onboard with where Navy Elementary's PTA funds were going?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >
> > > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> > board
> > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > kindergarten
> > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> rising
> > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > >
> > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> fundraising
> > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> board
> > members
>
> Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came
> from renovation money and school's technology
> designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok,
> both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).
I forgot to ask, were you onboard with where Navy Elementary's PTA funds were going?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Patriot
()
Date: October 31, 2007 06:32PM
Just found Stu's flier in my mailbox. He says he and his opponent both support boundary changes. I have no idea if Christine Arakelian ever said this, but she is still a better choice than Stu.
At least she will listen, whereas Stu has already made up his mind. Go on her website and ask her yourself - again, at least she will listen, and respond.
At least she will listen, whereas Stu has already made up his mind. Go on her website and ask her yourself - again, at least she will listen, and respond.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: October 31, 2007 06:45PM
I am currently a junior at South Lakes High School. I am enrolled in 6 IB classes this year and have been exposed to the IB program since I entered Langston Hughes middle school. I currently have a 3.9 GPA, was a starter on the girl’s varsity soccer team, and am a member of NHS. I am on track for the IB diploma and will be testing in IB Bio SL this spring. (oh and the IB compared to AP argument-http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1568480-1,00.html)I went to Aldrin Elementary School for two years until I was moved into Forest Edge Elementary. I don’t think I will ever make another decision that I’ll be as happy about. Forest Edge was a much much more diverse school than Aldrin. The atmosphere was much more inclusive. When I hear people talk about the diversity at SL like it is a bad thing I can’t help but be offended. I am black and to think that when people quote the percentage of black students at SLHS like it brings down the school is hurtful. I actually moved into the SLHS district after eighth grade so that I could get an IB diploma. I am completely satisfied with my choice and wish that people wouldn’t talk about SLHS as much as they do. It’s sorta ruining my school year…
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: October 31, 2007 06:50PM
Madison,
Congratulations to you! You are the reason South Lakes parents have so many good things to say about being inclusive. Listen to the people who actually know something about the school, us, not those who have probably never even been there.
Congratulations to you! You are the reason South Lakes parents have so many good things to say about being inclusive. Listen to the people who actually know something about the school, us, not those who have probably never even been there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VOTER
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:09PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison,
> Congratulations to you! You are the reason South
> Lakes parents have so many good things to say
> about being inclusive. Listen to the people who
> actually know something about the school, us, not
> those who have probably never even been there.
And hopefully for my kids NEVER have to be there!!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison,
> Congratulations to you! You are the reason South
> Lakes parents have so many good things to say
> about being inclusive. Listen to the people who
> actually know something about the school, us, not
> those who have probably never even been there.
And hopefully for my kids NEVER have to be there!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
souljaaaaboy
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:16PM
VOTER, are you serious? You are a self-absorbed idiot.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
LOLA Espanola
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:26PM
How would sending only Floris and McNair to SLHS not create an attendance island? Isn't Foxmill in the middle there? If not an island, it would be a very strange looking peninsula. I just can't see SLHS wanting both Dogwood and McNair, the two schools that have not met the NCLB benchmarks. Seems like sending those two schools to different high schools is the type of social engineering that non-degreed engineers would do best. Isn't the point to change (read "improve") the socio-economic balance of South Lakes? Not sure how throwing McNair in the mix would do that for SLHS.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Mike Jones
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:37PM
I think that this forum is the basis for a bunch of cookie-cutting parents from FFX County who refuse to submit their children to diversity and growth through experience; your children will grow up just like you; close-minded and ignorant; I am a graduate from South Lakes, and a current Audio/Film major at the number one film school in the country, and I attribute all of my success to South Lakes; a school that constantly included a strong academic curriculum giving the children who want to succeed the oportunity to.
After studying abroad for a half year in Europe, I learned among peers who didn't even speak English. But they inspired me beyond words, simply by the infusion of culture; this perpetual idea that cultural barriers cannot be broken is offensive, and I really sympathize for the children of the parents who want to keep their kids in cookie cutter worl.
After studying abroad for a half year in Europe, I learned among peers who didn't even speak English. But they inspired me beyond words, simply by the infusion of culture; this perpetual idea that cultural barriers cannot be broken is offensive, and I really sympathize for the children of the parents who want to keep their kids in cookie cutter worl.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:40PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Elementary school - totally renovated,
> smart
> > > board
> > > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > > kindergarten
> > > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> > rising
> > > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > > >
> > > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> > fundraising
> > > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> > board
> > > members
> >
> > Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These
> came
> > from renovation money and school's technology
> > designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA
> (ok,
> > both are taxpayers, but I do know the
> difference).
>
>
> I forgot to ask, were you onboard with where Navy
> Elementary's PTA funds were going?
Cricket, please, try to follow the thread. I said in the beginning that I was in Hunter Mill District. We have a PTA and audit our books every year. Navy is in Sully and has a PTO...
OUR SMART BOARDS WERE NOT PAID FOR BY THE PTA!
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Elementary school - totally renovated,
> smart
> > > board
> > > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > > kindergarten
> > > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> > rising
> > > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > > >
> > > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> > fundraising
> > > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> > board
> > > members
> >
> > Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These
> came
> > from renovation money and school's technology
> > designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA
> (ok,
> > both are taxpayers, but I do know the
> difference).
>
>
> I forgot to ask, were you onboard with where Navy
> Elementary's PTA funds were going?
Cricket, please, try to follow the thread. I said in the beginning that I was in Hunter Mill District. We have a PTA and audit our books every year. Navy is in Sully and has a PTO...
OUR SMART BOARDS WERE NOT PAID FOR BY THE PTA!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: October 31, 2007 09:58PM
Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Cricket, please, try to follow the thread. I said
> in the beginning that I was in Hunter Mill
> District. We have a PTA and audit our books every
> year. Navy is in Sully and has a PTO...
>
> OUR SMART BOARDS WERE NOT PAID FOR BY THE PTA!
Been followin' the thread for quite some time now. I diverge no more than you. I was just tagging on to something you contributed---Your list of stuff, almost worded like Stu Gibson accomplishments. I am glad you live in the Hunter Mill District. So do I. You might be surprised that there is more than one school in the Hunter Mill District. I can tell you that the SMART BOARDS AT OUR SCHOOL WERE PAID FOR BY THE PTA!
You didn't specify what PTA funds you were so well award of, so I figured it must be everyone's. Guess not. Yeah, Navy is now a PTO, since Ms. Mattfield took the money and ran. I am glad that you are keeping track of someone's funds, though. Thanks
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Cricket, please, try to follow the thread. I said
> in the beginning that I was in Hunter Mill
> District. We have a PTA and audit our books every
> year. Navy is in Sully and has a PTO...
>
> OUR SMART BOARDS WERE NOT PAID FOR BY THE PTA!
Been followin' the thread for quite some time now. I diverge no more than you. I was just tagging on to something you contributed---Your list of stuff, almost worded like Stu Gibson accomplishments. I am glad you live in the Hunter Mill District. So do I. You might be surprised that there is more than one school in the Hunter Mill District. I can tell you that the SMART BOARDS AT OUR SCHOOL WERE PAID FOR BY THE PTA!
You didn't specify what PTA funds you were so well award of, so I figured it must be everyone's. Guess not. Yeah, Navy is now a PTO, since Ms. Mattfield took the money and ran. I am glad that you are keeping track of someone's funds, though. Thanks
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:11PM
Madison's post and Thomas More's post tend to support my views about IB. Madison is clearly an excellent student (kudos in order) with the skills and the motivation and focus to see the very rigorous and challenging program through to completion. My guess is in terms of critical thinking, a different skill than pure knowledge, someone of Madison's caliber might think the IB program more beneficial than the AP program and be very glad she made that choice. But seriously, with all due respect to all students, how many Madisons are out there? A measurable number, but not likely a critical mass. This is meant as a completely appropriate compliment to Madison and those like her, but implicit in the statement is a recognition that not many fit that profile. I wish more would - but such is the reality of the situation.
Which brings me back to Thomas More's post - in which he describes the experience of Robinson parents with IB and Virginia Tech - Virginia Tech being an incredibly significant benchmark to Robinson, Oakton, Madison, etc., students - there is no greater single source of middle class intellectual capital in Northern Virginia than that supplied by Virginia Tech (and no slight to Virginia's other great universities - merely a nod to Tech's incredible popularity and demonstrated skill in providing technically oriented education). Those prospective Tech kids are the Fairfax County Schools significant bloc of of "customers". Yes, all kids matter, but these kids and their families are just the middle class backbone that people want on teams and in school. And meeting their needs is vitally important. A great many kids succeed at Tech - with having taken 3 or 4 AP courses in high school in skill areas that they do well in - and having taken a number of non-AP courses as well - appropriate to their skill level and study and work habits - to keep their grades up and life manageable. And the 3 or 4 AP courses are important - because the credits that one can obtain really give the students a leg up at a place like Tech - and not just in terms of raw credit either - the higher standing one has at the school - the easier it is to get classes - no trivial thing at a school like Tech - and in fact unavailability of classes is a common reason finishing in more than four years is a reality. So again, although it is one component of what would make a school transfer work, it really would make sense for the school to pay close attention to meeting this demand. And it is absurd to think that pointing this out is in any way sliming South Lakes - if the needs of their population will change materially, react appropriately. And while in theory the programs can co-exist, qualified and effective teachers are a limited resource, and likely some tough decisions will need to be made.
Which brings me back to Thomas More's post - in which he describes the experience of Robinson parents with IB and Virginia Tech - Virginia Tech being an incredibly significant benchmark to Robinson, Oakton, Madison, etc., students - there is no greater single source of middle class intellectual capital in Northern Virginia than that supplied by Virginia Tech (and no slight to Virginia's other great universities - merely a nod to Tech's incredible popularity and demonstrated skill in providing technically oriented education). Those prospective Tech kids are the Fairfax County Schools significant bloc of of "customers". Yes, all kids matter, but these kids and their families are just the middle class backbone that people want on teams and in school. And meeting their needs is vitally important. A great many kids succeed at Tech - with having taken 3 or 4 AP courses in high school in skill areas that they do well in - and having taken a number of non-AP courses as well - appropriate to their skill level and study and work habits - to keep their grades up and life manageable. And the 3 or 4 AP courses are important - because the credits that one can obtain really give the students a leg up at a place like Tech - and not just in terms of raw credit either - the higher standing one has at the school - the easier it is to get classes - no trivial thing at a school like Tech - and in fact unavailability of classes is a common reason finishing in more than four years is a reality. So again, although it is one component of what would make a school transfer work, it really would make sense for the school to pay close attention to meeting this demand. And it is absurd to think that pointing this out is in any way sliming South Lakes - if the needs of their population will change materially, react appropriately. And while in theory the programs can co-exist, qualified and effective teachers are a limited resource, and likely some tough decisions will need to be made.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:14PM
or your kids can man-up and do the work like south lakes kids have been doing for years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:36PM
Madison - You certainly have your act together and will go far in life. I'm sure your parents, teachers and coaches are very proud of you. The link you posted about IB had a typo. Here is the correct link http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1568480-1,00.html
You are right. There is a lot of barbs being thrown... from both sides. Interspersed there are some interesting, relevant posts. Just ignore the trash, you will encounter this throughout your life.
- But then again, I'm just a cookie-cutting parent that refuses to submit my kids to diversity, desparately needing to tell my kids to man-up... so what do I know
You are right. There is a lot of barbs being thrown... from both sides. Interspersed there are some interesting, relevant posts. Just ignore the trash, you will encounter this throughout your life.
- But then again, I'm just a cookie-cutting parent that refuses to submit my kids to diversity, desparately needing to tell my kids to man-up... so what do I know
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
OHS parent
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:40PM
McNair and South Lakes share a common boundary,no island would be formed by moving McNair,or McNair + Floris. Moving just Floris would create an island.
McNair + Floris won't both fit at South Lakes, its too many kids (all of Westfield district north of route 50).
Some of McNair already goes to Herndon, the part north of the toll road, it's believed to include the majority of underperforming students, though that's just conjecture based on housing stock differential on the two sides of the toll road. So the part that would move isn't necessarily as bad as Dogwood.
McNair + Floris won't both fit at South Lakes, its too many kids (all of Westfield district north of route 50).
Some of McNair already goes to Herndon, the part north of the toll road, it's believed to include the majority of underperforming students, though that's just conjecture based on housing stock differential on the two sides of the toll road. So the part that would move isn't necessarily as bad as Dogwood.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:50PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of
> > facts and being a politico.
>
> He's very politically savy. How do you think he
> got that award from the central office for "best
> first year principal." I give him far more credit
> than that.
He got that award because I and some other parents nominated him and wrote persuasively about positive changes that he implemented.
>
> > If he says they will
> > offer AP with the redistricted students, then
> you
> > need to take him at his word and start
> > negotiating, not undercut him.
>
> Why?
He hasn't let us down yet.
>
> > Really, I think
> > your campaign to be rid of him is not going to
> > fly, given his popularity.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the parents of the
> sophomore who's being overloaded by a tyrant of an
> IB English teacher of whom I reported yesterday on
> this blog. Do you think his complete dismissal of
> their concerns is going to help the popularity of
> IB.
One lone complainer, and we only have one side of the story.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the family of the
> boy in the wheelchair who couldn't get a bus with
> a wheel chair lift for a ten days because
> Arrington ignored them and Bruce's voicemail box
> was full.
See above. Why is Arrignton still at SL? Where
> did Dave Dalton go?
Dave Dalton retired after many years of service in the County. It has been planned for several years. Frankly, though he was excellent in years past, for the last two he was nothing but a placeholder.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the parents of the
> BSR student whose concerns about their child not
> getting the help she needed to overcome her
> reading problems were dismissed by his claiming
> that BSR is "a glorified study hall."
See above.
>
> > He
> > is much better than what came before, and he has
> a
> > lot to overcome, so give him a break.
>
> I acknowledge he's better than Railly but a
> lamppost would fill that bill because the abuse
> would stop.
Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet with Bruce in private, air your concerns and complaints, and see what he has to say. I have never known him to be anything but judicious and fair. Airing them here without having approached him directly is not productive.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of
> > facts and being a politico.
>
> He's very politically savy. How do you think he
> got that award from the central office for "best
> first year principal." I give him far more credit
> than that.
He got that award because I and some other parents nominated him and wrote persuasively about positive changes that he implemented.
>
> > If he says they will
> > offer AP with the redistricted students, then
> you
> > need to take him at his word and start
> > negotiating, not undercut him.
>
> Why?
He hasn't let us down yet.
>
> > Really, I think
> > your campaign to be rid of him is not going to
> > fly, given his popularity.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the parents of the
> sophomore who's being overloaded by a tyrant of an
> IB English teacher of whom I reported yesterday on
> this blog. Do you think his complete dismissal of
> their concerns is going to help the popularity of
> IB.
One lone complainer, and we only have one side of the story.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the family of the
> boy in the wheelchair who couldn't get a bus with
> a wheel chair lift for a ten days because
> Arrington ignored them and Bruce's voicemail box
> was full.
See above. Why is Arrignton still at SL? Where
> did Dave Dalton go?
Dave Dalton retired after many years of service in the County. It has been planned for several years. Frankly, though he was excellent in years past, for the last two he was nothing but a placeholder.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the parents of the
> BSR student whose concerns about their child not
> getting the help she needed to overcome her
> reading problems were dismissed by his claiming
> that BSR is "a glorified study hall."
See above.
>
> > He
> > is much better than what came before, and he has
> a
> > lot to overcome, so give him a break.
>
> I acknowledge he's better than Railly but a
> lamppost would fill that bill because the abuse
> would stop.
Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet with Bruce in private, air your concerns and complaints, and see what he has to say. I have never known him to be anything but judicious and fair. Airing them here without having approached him directly is not productive.
Kathy Smith
Posted by:
OHS parent again
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:52PM
I had an interesting talk with Kathy Smith yesterday (by phone), it convinced me to vote for her opponent in the election. She came across as completely clueless regarding this whole process. "Nothing has been decided, we need input from the community, but I do hear from people in Westfield and Chantilly that those schools have too many students". I pressed her on using input to make recommended changes, and she admitted that almost nobody will willingly choose to change their school boundary, but then wouldn't draw the conclusion that any changes would be driven by the board. Her logic was there could be a few parents that would be in favor of certain changes. Minority rules, as long as it matches what the board wants to happen.
She claimed that nothing had been decided, which may be true, but I said that there must be high likelihood scenarios or they wouldn't know what schools to include in the study. I asked her about Westfield e.g. At first she wouldn't give a target enrollment, but then suggested it might be (say) 2600. I said "OK, you could do that my moving McNair", and she basically said "Huh? What's McNair?" I was floored....I was like "one of the half dozen feeder elementary schools to Westfield, and one of the few NCLB at risk schools...you must know about it?". She was all "Well that's Stu's school, I don't know anything about it." Imbecile, or more likely, liar. She said that they wouldn't likely be moving whole elemmentary school areas, though the FAW on the web site says that is the preferred way to do this type of change. And she followed along that you can't change the south or west border or westfield, and the east borde is chantilly, so you have to do something with the north, i.e. McNair...sigh.
Vote Litzenberger, he has an impressive resume and has done a lot for the schools.
She claimed that nothing had been decided, which may be true, but I said that there must be high likelihood scenarios or they wouldn't know what schools to include in the study. I asked her about Westfield e.g. At first she wouldn't give a target enrollment, but then suggested it might be (say) 2600. I said "OK, you could do that my moving McNair", and she basically said "Huh? What's McNair?" I was floored....I was like "one of the half dozen feeder elementary schools to Westfield, and one of the few NCLB at risk schools...you must know about it?". She was all "Well that's Stu's school, I don't know anything about it." Imbecile, or more likely, liar. She said that they wouldn't likely be moving whole elemmentary school areas, though the FAW on the web site says that is the preferred way to do this type of change. And she followed along that you can't change the south or west border or westfield, and the east borde is chantilly, so you have to do something with the north, i.e. McNair...sigh.
Vote Litzenberger, he has an impressive resume and has done a lot for the schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:53PM
Thomas More Wrote:
Hopefully
> you'll be able to share them before the first town
> mtg.
Have you volunteered to attend the meeting. Lots of parents from elementary schools in our pyramid will be there.
Hopefully
> you'll be able to share them before the first town
> mtg.
Have you volunteered to attend the meeting. Lots of parents from elementary schools in our pyramid will be there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 10:58PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reports from Robinson IB parents:
>
> The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits
> for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> orientation and class registration at Tech was in
> late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> freshman classes.
>
> In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given
> up on the IB diploma because they are being
> crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if
> you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have
> to take freshman history in senior year. So many
> seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> this year that Robinson had to create a freshman
> history class populated entirely by seniors.
>
> If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can
> have the families post on this blog.
>
> "I don't write the news, I just report it."
Are we to believe that students weren't adding/dropping/changing classes and rearranging schedules after fall term started? Just because pre-registration is in July does not mean that those course schedules are static. That is just not the way the university world works.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reports from Robinson IB parents:
>
> The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits
> for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> orientation and class registration at Tech was in
> late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> freshman classes.
>
> In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given
> up on the IB diploma because they are being
> crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if
> you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have
> to take freshman history in senior year. So many
> seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> this year that Robinson had to create a freshman
> history class populated entirely by seniors.
>
> If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can
> have the families post on this blog.
>
> "I don't write the news, I just report it."
Are we to believe that students weren't adding/dropping/changing classes and rearranging schedules after fall term started? Just because pre-registration is in July does not mean that those course schedules are static. That is just not the way the university world works.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:04PM
Madison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am currently a junior at South Lakes High
> School.
Madison, you do South Lakes and our community proud. Keep up the good work and good luck on your IB exams. I am sure you will reach your goals. My kids loved SL too and also thought it was a very kind and inclusive environment. Please don't listen to the negative comments on this site. Concentrate on your schoolwork and having a great junior year.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am currently a junior at South Lakes High
> School.
Madison, you do South Lakes and our community proud. Keep up the good work and good luck on your IB exams. I am sure you will reach your goals. My kids loved SL too and also thought it was a very kind and inclusive environment. Please don't listen to the negative comments on this site. Concentrate on your schoolwork and having a great junior year.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:09PM
VOTER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And hopefully for my kids NEVER have to be there!!
Voter, it's really sad when a high school junior is more adult than a parent.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 11:47PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And hopefully for my kids NEVER have to be there!!
Voter, it's really sad when a high school junior is more adult than a parent.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 11:47PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:18PM
SL Padre: I worked peacefully today knowing you were fighting the good fight.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:39PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison's post and Thomas More's post tend to
> support my views about IB. Madison is clearly an
> excellent student (kudos in order) with the skills
> and the motivation and focus to see the very
> rigorous and challenging program through to
> completion. My guess is in terms of critical
> thinking, a different skill than pure knowledge,
> someone of Madison's caliber might think the IB
> program more beneficial than the AP program and be
> very glad she made that choice. But seriously,
> with all due respect to all students, how many
> Madisons are out there? A measurable number, but
> not likely a critical mass. This is meant as a
> completely appropriate compliment to Madison and
> those like her, but implicit in the statement is a
> recognition that not many fit that profile. I
> wish more would - but such is the reality of the
> situation.
>
> Which brings me back to Thomas More's post - in
> which he describes the experience of Robinson
> parents with IB and Virginia Tech - Virginia Tech
> being an incredibly significant benchmark to
> Robinson, Oakton, Madison, etc., students - there
> is no greater single source of middle class
> intellectual capital in Northern Virginia than
> that supplied by Virginia Tech (and no slight to
> Virginia's other great universities - merely a nod
> to Tech's incredible popularity and demonstrated
> skill in providing technically oriented
> education). Those prospective Tech kids are the
> Fairfax County Schools significant bloc of of
> "customers". Yes, all kids matter, but these kids
> and their families are just the middle class
> backbone that people want on teams and in school.
> And meeting their needs is vitally important. A
> great many kids succeed at Tech - with having
> taken 3 or 4 AP courses in high school in skill
> areas that they do well in - and having taken a
> number of non-AP courses as well - appropriate to
> their skill level and study and work habits - to
> keep their grades up and life manageable. And the
> 3 or 4 AP courses are important - because the
> credits that one can obtain really give the
> students a leg up at a place like Tech - and not
> just in terms of raw credit either - the higher
> standing one has at the school - the easier it is
> to get classes - no trivial thing at a school like
> Tech - and in fact unavailability of classes is a
> common reason finishing in more than four years is
> a reality. So again, although it is one component
> of what would make a school transfer work, it
> really would make sense for the school to pay
> close attention to meeting this demand. And it is
> absurd to think that pointing this out is in any
> way sliming South Lakes - if the needs of their
> population will change materially, react
> appropriately. And while in theory the programs
> can co-exist, qualified and effective teachers are
> a limited resource, and likely some tough
> decisions will need to be made.
Quantum, with all due respect, why do you not think that mid-level students are up to the challenges of IB? I have seen firsthand that they are. Students do not have to do the IB diploma, but can take selected IB courses, just like AP. I think they are equally prepared for college.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison's post and Thomas More's post tend to
> support my views about IB. Madison is clearly an
> excellent student (kudos in order) with the skills
> and the motivation and focus to see the very
> rigorous and challenging program through to
> completion. My guess is in terms of critical
> thinking, a different skill than pure knowledge,
> someone of Madison's caliber might think the IB
> program more beneficial than the AP program and be
> very glad she made that choice. But seriously,
> with all due respect to all students, how many
> Madisons are out there? A measurable number, but
> not likely a critical mass. This is meant as a
> completely appropriate compliment to Madison and
> those like her, but implicit in the statement is a
> recognition that not many fit that profile. I
> wish more would - but such is the reality of the
> situation.
>
> Which brings me back to Thomas More's post - in
> which he describes the experience of Robinson
> parents with IB and Virginia Tech - Virginia Tech
> being an incredibly significant benchmark to
> Robinson, Oakton, Madison, etc., students - there
> is no greater single source of middle class
> intellectual capital in Northern Virginia than
> that supplied by Virginia Tech (and no slight to
> Virginia's other great universities - merely a nod
> to Tech's incredible popularity and demonstrated
> skill in providing technically oriented
> education). Those prospective Tech kids are the
> Fairfax County Schools significant bloc of of
> "customers". Yes, all kids matter, but these kids
> and their families are just the middle class
> backbone that people want on teams and in school.
> And meeting their needs is vitally important. A
> great many kids succeed at Tech - with having
> taken 3 or 4 AP courses in high school in skill
> areas that they do well in - and having taken a
> number of non-AP courses as well - appropriate to
> their skill level and study and work habits - to
> keep their grades up and life manageable. And the
> 3 or 4 AP courses are important - because the
> credits that one can obtain really give the
> students a leg up at a place like Tech - and not
> just in terms of raw credit either - the higher
> standing one has at the school - the easier it is
> to get classes - no trivial thing at a school like
> Tech - and in fact unavailability of classes is a
> common reason finishing in more than four years is
> a reality. So again, although it is one component
> of what would make a school transfer work, it
> really would make sense for the school to pay
> close attention to meeting this demand. And it is
> absurd to think that pointing this out is in any
> way sliming South Lakes - if the needs of their
> population will change materially, react
> appropriately. And while in theory the programs
> can co-exist, qualified and effective teachers are
> a limited resource, and likely some tough
> decisions will need to be made.
Quantum, with all due respect, why do you not think that mid-level students are up to the challenges of IB? I have seen firsthand that they are. Students do not have to do the IB diploma, but can take selected IB courses, just like AP. I think they are equally prepared for college.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: October 31, 2007 11:42PM
Sorry to hog the board, just catching up after a much-needed day away from this site. Honestly, this posting can become addictive! Good night to all.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:29AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One lone complainer, and we only have one side of
> the story.
No, that would be three families and nine people who went to Bruce and were blown off.
> Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet with
> Bruce in private, air your concerns and
> complaints, and see what he has to say. I have
> never known him to be anything but judicious and
> fair. Airing them here without having approached
> him directly is not productive.
Those three families tried that approach and got no where.
Your advice is to keep it private, don't rock the boat, don't jeopardize the redistricting. Why, so that the kids from McNair and Floris can experience the same treatment.
It's petty whining when its not your child. And your kids are out, so you won't have that fun experience of Bruce blowing you off to protect one of Realista treasures.
This is a customer service function. Studies say every happy customer talks to three people and every unhappy person talks to ten people. So those nine people have already told 90 people about their dissatisfaction with Bruce. Tough to build support for SL that way.
More Later
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 04:07AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> One lone complainer, and we only have one side of
> the story.
No, that would be three families and nine people who went to Bruce and were blown off.
> Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet with
> Bruce in private, air your concerns and
> complaints, and see what he has to say. I have
> never known him to be anything but judicious and
> fair. Airing them here without having approached
> him directly is not productive.
Those three families tried that approach and got no where.
Your advice is to keep it private, don't rock the boat, don't jeopardize the redistricting. Why, so that the kids from McNair and Floris can experience the same treatment.
It's petty whining when its not your child. And your kids are out, so you won't have that fun experience of Bruce blowing you off to protect one of Realista treasures.
This is a customer service function. Studies say every happy customer talks to three people and every unhappy person talks to ten people. So those nine people have already told 90 people about their dissatisfaction with Bruce. Tough to build support for SL that way.
More Later
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 04:07AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:33AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> Hopefully
> > you'll be able to share them before the first
> town
> > mtg.
>
> Have you volunteered to attend the meeting. Lots
> of parents from elementary schools in our pyramid
> will be there.
Given my posts I'm not sure you'd want me there.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> Hopefully
> > you'll be able to share them before the first
> town
> > mtg.
>
> Have you volunteered to attend the meeting. Lots
> of parents from elementary schools in our pyramid
> will be there.
Given my posts I'm not sure you'd want me there.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:35AM
hahahaha "realista's treasures" that a hilarious image. thomas i may not agree with you on everything but you really do have a way with words.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:48AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reports from Robinson IB parents:
> >
> > The kids who didn't get advanced placement
> credits
> > for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> > orientation and class registration at Tech was
> in
> > late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> > grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> > freshman classes.
>
> Are we to believe that students weren't
> adding/dropping/changing classes and rearranging
> schedules after fall term started? Just because
> pre-registration is in July does not mean that
> those course schedules are static. That is just
> not the way the university world works.
Go ask any freshman at VTech of their ability to, and the wisdom of, transferring into a higher level course in the middle of their first semester. First, the classes are already full. Second, freshman get last choice in upper level
courses. Third, the the class has already started, the kid is already behind. So IB is a good idea because college freshman get to attempt to transfer into upper level courses in the middle of their first college semester and be weeks behind in the course material. Seriously?
This continuous dismissal of people who don't agree with you and failure to acknowledge problems with programs and people you favor is just as discrediting as the SL bashers failure to acknowledge SLs strengths.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reports from Robinson IB parents:
> >
> > The kids who didn't get advanced placement
> credits
> > for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> > orientation and class registration at Tech was
> in
> > late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> > grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> > freshman classes.
>
> Are we to believe that students weren't
> adding/dropping/changing classes and rearranging
> schedules after fall term started? Just because
> pre-registration is in July does not mean that
> those course schedules are static. That is just
> not the way the university world works.
Go ask any freshman at VTech of their ability to, and the wisdom of, transferring into a higher level course in the middle of their first semester. First, the classes are already full. Second, freshman get last choice in upper level
courses. Third, the the class has already started, the kid is already behind. So IB is a good idea because college freshman get to attempt to transfer into upper level courses in the middle of their first college semester and be weeks behind in the course material. Seriously?
This continuous dismissal of people who don't agree with you and failure to acknowledge problems with programs and people you favor is just as discrediting as the SL bashers failure to acknowledge SLs strengths.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:31AM
Bruce Butler may be able to introduce some AP courses, eventually, particularly in the math and sciences and AP Government. But not in time for those enrolling in 2008 and want an AP program. Those students will transfer to another school, assuming that the school system doesn't forbid transferring out of South Lakes but saying all the nearby AP schools are filled.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:36AM
IB teachers cannot teach AP without certification. They would all have to agree to going to summer school to be certified to teach AP. Plus, many of them may not have the ability to teach AP Calculus, Multi Var, AP physics, AP chemistry, AP computer science, etc. It would take some effort to get the teachers hired for those classes, and certified. It would take years to get that in place.
These are the kinds of things that need to be done if any new students are going to be attracted to South Lakes. There should have been some kind of plan, BEFORE they went down this redistricting path. This whole boundary study is terribly flawed. They need to STOP it and start over. But that can only happen if Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith are defeated.
Please visit:
www.stoprd.com
These are the kinds of things that need to be done if any new students are going to be attracted to South Lakes. There should have been some kind of plan, BEFORE they went down this redistricting path. This whole boundary study is terribly flawed. They need to STOP it and start over. But that can only happen if Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith are defeated.
Please visit:
www.stoprd.com
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
ibnutz
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:50AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB teachers cannot teach AP without certification.
> They would all have to agree to going to summer
> school to be certified to teach AP. Plus, many of
> them may not have the ability to teach AP
> Calculus, Multi Var, AP physics, AP chemistry, AP
> computer science, etc. It would take some effort
> to get the teachers hired for those classes, and
> certified. It would take years to get that in
> place.
Some of the teachers who were at the school teaching AP before they changed to IB are still there. Why wouldn't others have the ability to teach those classes? They are obviously well versed in the subject if they are able to teach IB MMII, IB Physics, and IB Chem...?
> These are the kinds of things that need to be done
> if any new students are going to be attracted to
> South Lakes. There should have been some kind of
> plan, BEFORE they went down this redistricting
> path. This whole boundary study is terribly
> flawed. They need to STOP it and start over. But
> that can only happen if Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith
> are defeated.
I agree that the boundary study should be started over. All surrounding schools including Langley, Aldrin, and Armstrong should be looked at. I do think redistricting is necessary because the school is underenrolled, not for any other reason, but the process could move a lot smoother if the school board displayed some logical reasons for their decisions rather than what seem to be somewhat arbitrary moves.
A side note: I am a graduate of South Lakes and always wondered why Fox Mill and Crossfield, which seemed so much closer to South Lakes than to other high schools, didn't go to South Lakes. I also think that if you are looking for a cohesiveness in the South Lakes community, adding Aldrin and Armstrong would be a good move because it would unite Reston and being from Reston is a definate aspect of the South Lakes community. And one more thing...I had never even heard of McNair until reading this board, whether that be ignorance or who knows what, I don't think many other Reston kids know about it either so adding them might not be the best move.
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB teachers cannot teach AP without certification.
> They would all have to agree to going to summer
> school to be certified to teach AP. Plus, many of
> them may not have the ability to teach AP
> Calculus, Multi Var, AP physics, AP chemistry, AP
> computer science, etc. It would take some effort
> to get the teachers hired for those classes, and
> certified. It would take years to get that in
> place.
Some of the teachers who were at the school teaching AP before they changed to IB are still there. Why wouldn't others have the ability to teach those classes? They are obviously well versed in the subject if they are able to teach IB MMII, IB Physics, and IB Chem...?
> These are the kinds of things that need to be done
> if any new students are going to be attracted to
> South Lakes. There should have been some kind of
> plan, BEFORE they went down this redistricting
> path. This whole boundary study is terribly
> flawed. They need to STOP it and start over. But
> that can only happen if Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith
> are defeated.
I agree that the boundary study should be started over. All surrounding schools including Langley, Aldrin, and Armstrong should be looked at. I do think redistricting is necessary because the school is underenrolled, not for any other reason, but the process could move a lot smoother if the school board displayed some logical reasons for their decisions rather than what seem to be somewhat arbitrary moves.
A side note: I am a graduate of South Lakes and always wondered why Fox Mill and Crossfield, which seemed so much closer to South Lakes than to other high schools, didn't go to South Lakes. I also think that if you are looking for a cohesiveness in the South Lakes community, adding Aldrin and Armstrong would be a good move because it would unite Reston and being from Reston is a definate aspect of the South Lakes community. And one more thing...I had never even heard of McNair until reading this board, whether that be ignorance or who knows what, I don't think many other Reston kids know about it either so adding them might not be the best move.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:56AM
School Board members gave themselves a raise, to $20,000 a year.
Please tell us what Stu has done in the over the last 12 years that merit his re election?
How has he helped any low performing school in his district? What has he done to stem the tide of students out of South Lakes? What has he done to help students at McNair and Dogwood to learn to read?
What has he done for any school in Vienna? Oh yeh, he approved of kicking Vienna GT kids out of Kilmer and sending them to Luther Jackson in fall of 2008. They won't go there, and their return will over crowd Thoreau. Nice, Stu. He sent Marshall Road students out of Louise Archer to Mosby Woods, despite what they wanted. Thanks again Stu. Let us know when you do something that parents actually want done. We won't hold our breath.
Please tell us what Stu has done in the over the last 12 years that merit his re election?
How has he helped any low performing school in his district? What has he done to stem the tide of students out of South Lakes? What has he done to help students at McNair and Dogwood to learn to read?
What has he done for any school in Vienna? Oh yeh, he approved of kicking Vienna GT kids out of Kilmer and sending them to Luther Jackson in fall of 2008. They won't go there, and their return will over crowd Thoreau. Nice, Stu. He sent Marshall Road students out of Louise Archer to Mosby Woods, despite what they wanted. Thanks again Stu. Let us know when you do something that parents actually want done. We won't hold our breath.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:00AM
124C41,
I would strongly advise you to vote for Chris Braunlich and Steve Hunt. Both of them will listen to parents and communities before taking any action. Paul Costantino would also listen, but I know less about him. StopRD supports Jim Raney, but he's a nobody who would vote with the democrats who are the problem.
I would strongly advise you to vote for Chris Braunlich and Steve Hunt. Both of them will listen to parents and communities before taking any action. Paul Costantino would also listen, but I know less about him. StopRD supports Jim Raney, but he's a nobody who would vote with the democrats who are the problem.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:01AM
ibnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the teachers who were at the school
> teaching AP before they changed to IB are still
> there.
It's been seven years since SL had IB imposed on it. Most of the AP teachers have left because of Realista or IB.
And with Butler saying no redundant classes, there will be few AP classes, even if there is follow through on this idea.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the teachers who were at the school
> teaching AP before they changed to IB are still
> there.
It's been seven years since SL had IB imposed on it. Most of the AP teachers have left because of Realista or IB.
And with Butler saying no redundant classes, there will be few AP classes, even if there is follow through on this idea.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:32AM
Another example of Bruce’s taking care of the dysfunctional staff.
It has long been County policy not to allow an Assistant Director of Student Activities (ADSA) to coach a sport. For example, Linda Jones served as ADSA under DSA Pat Henthorn (another Railly disaster). Jones was required to resign as girls basketball head coach before she could take the ADSA job. Bruce Butler served on the screening committee to recommend her replacement as basketball coach.
When Henthorn finally left, and Bruce gave the job to Linda, instead of appointing a full time ADSA, Butler split the job between John Ellenberger, the head football coach and special ed. English teacher and Lindsey Trout, failed soccer coach, failed basketball coach but SL grad and special ed. teacher.
Butler’s excuse was that they were both pursuing graduate degrees and neither could devote full time to the job. Ellenbarfer continues as head football coach despite the County policy against holding both jobs simultaneously and despite 5 years of losing seasons. They just lost 51-0 to Marshall? Really.
Was there no other qualified candidate who applied for the ADSA job? Or does SL just exist to maximize the well-being of the incumbent staff?
I guess the “Rules” that we and our kids sign at the start of each year don’t apply to Butler and his staff. But as Neen says FCPS schools are about taking care of the staff and not about taking care of the kids.
More Later
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 03:56AM by Thomas More.
It has long been County policy not to allow an Assistant Director of Student Activities (ADSA) to coach a sport. For example, Linda Jones served as ADSA under DSA Pat Henthorn (another Railly disaster). Jones was required to resign as girls basketball head coach before she could take the ADSA job. Bruce Butler served on the screening committee to recommend her replacement as basketball coach.
When Henthorn finally left, and Bruce gave the job to Linda, instead of appointing a full time ADSA, Butler split the job between John Ellenberger, the head football coach and special ed. English teacher and Lindsey Trout, failed soccer coach, failed basketball coach but SL grad and special ed. teacher.
Butler’s excuse was that they were both pursuing graduate degrees and neither could devote full time to the job. Ellenbarfer continues as head football coach despite the County policy against holding both jobs simultaneously and despite 5 years of losing seasons. They just lost 51-0 to Marshall? Really.
Was there no other qualified candidate who applied for the ADSA job? Or does SL just exist to maximize the well-being of the incumbent staff?
I guess the “Rules” that we and our kids sign at the start of each year don’t apply to Butler and his staff. But as Neen says FCPS schools are about taking care of the staff and not about taking care of the kids.
More Later
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 03:56AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 01, 2007 03:16AM
Bureaucracies work to support those within their system. It is similar to a union. Unions are there to support their members, not the consumer of the product the union member produces. FCPS is very much a union shop. Their priority is on their members, the staff, not the students or the parents. Being a government monopoly, they don't care, they don't have to. (Apologies to the phone lady on SNL.)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 03:37AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>(Apologies to the phone lady on SNL.)
It was Lilly Tomlin on Laugh-in and you're dating yourself.
-------------------------------------------------------
>(Apologies to the phone lady on SNL.)
It was Lilly Tomlin on Laugh-in and you're dating yourself.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 01, 2007 04:28AM
Oops, you are so right. I loved that skit.
One ringy dingy, two ringy dingy..........Have I reached the party to whom I am speaking?
One ringy dingy, two ringy dingy..........Have I reached the party to whom I am speaking?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
124C41
()
Date: November 01, 2007 05:26AM
Thank you, Neen, for your recommendations!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 01, 2007 06:03AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reports from Robinson IB parents:
>
> The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits
> for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> orientation and class registration at Tech was in
> late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> freshman classes.
>
> In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given
> up on the IB diploma because they are being
> crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if
> you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have
> to take freshman history in senior year. So many
> seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> this year that Robinson had to create a freshman
> history class populated entirely by seniors.
>
> If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can
> have the families post on this blog.
>
> "I don't write the news, I just report it."
I am an Oakton parent who is trying to be open minded about this whole thing, but the above quote really represents my concern over the AP/IB piece of the puzzle. I've heard the exact same story from a South Lakes parent whose daughter quit the IB program and had to take a history class her senior year with all freshmen. If the curriculums are that different, how can they possibly shift someone from an AP school to an IB school??
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reports from Robinson IB parents:
>
> The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits
> for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> orientation and class registration at Tech was in
> late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> freshman classes.
>
> In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given
> up on the IB diploma because they are being
> crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if
> you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have
> to take freshman history in senior year. So many
> seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> this year that Robinson had to create a freshman
> history class populated entirely by seniors.
>
> If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can
> have the families post on this blog.
>
> "I don't write the news, I just report it."
I am an Oakton parent who is trying to be open minded about this whole thing, but the above quote really represents my concern over the AP/IB piece of the puzzle. I've heard the exact same story from a South Lakes parent whose daughter quit the IB program and had to take a history class her senior year with all freshmen. If the curriculums are that different, how can they possibly shift someone from an AP school to an IB school??
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 07:15AM
Interesting news items
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2007/oct/31/marijuana-growing-operation-nets-two-arrests/
This article is referring to the asst principal of Cub Run ES. He was selling marijuana to kids at school! Talk about self -destructive! Wow.
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2007/oct/31/marijuana-growing-operation-nets-two-arrests/
This article is referring to the asst principal of Cub Run ES. He was selling marijuana to kids at school! Talk about self -destructive! Wow.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:00AM
Oakton parent - If you are moved to South Lakes and they do not offer AP, you can pupil place your child to another school where they off it and there are open seats. Be prepared to provide your own transportation or carpool... probably with a neighbor in the same situation.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:03AM
This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS and I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain that the reason the reason a senior who dropped out of the IB program has to take a freshmen course is because freshmen year that senior would have taken pre-IB World History part two. If the senior drops out of the IB program, they have to go back and take World History I. I didn’t look this up but I’m pretty sure of this.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:21AM
Madison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS and
> I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain that
> the reason the reason a senior who dropped out of
> the IB program has to take a freshmen course is
> because freshmen year that senior would have taken
> pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> drops out of the IB program, they have to go back
> and take World History I. I didn’t look this up
> but I’m pretty sure of this.
Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of the situation. But the question remains, that if the curriculums between AP and IB are that different, how can it be in any student's best interest to be redistricted into one program once they've begun another? I realize that there are ways around it (pupil placement), but my point is that it seems that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops because of this. It seems to me that if they are going to force kids to change schools, they shouldn't be able to force a change that involves two schools that aren't even using the same academic curriculum. At the very least, this needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS and
> I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain that
> the reason the reason a senior who dropped out of
> the IB program has to take a freshmen course is
> because freshmen year that senior would have taken
> pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> drops out of the IB program, they have to go back
> and take World History I. I didn’t look this up
> but I’m pretty sure of this.
Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of the situation. But the question remains, that if the curriculums between AP and IB are that different, how can it be in any student's best interest to be redistricted into one program once they've begun another? I realize that there are ways around it (pupil placement), but my point is that it seems that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops because of this. It seems to me that if they are going to force kids to change schools, they shouldn't be able to force a change that involves two schools that aren't even using the same academic curriculum. At the very least, this needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:32AM
The full IB program doesn’t actually begin until junior year. 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th grade are part of entirely different program called IBMYP (Middle Years Program). It’s not that hard to pick up the IB program if you’ve spent time in anther school. From what I’ve heard about the redistricting I don’t think their going to try and redistrict upperclassmen. I think they understand that it would be difficult to spend half your time in one school and half in another.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:37AM
Madison - shouldn't you be in school now?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:44AM
I am in school. We're doing a bio lab and my group already finished. Any other questions?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:46AM
you're better without the tude
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:50AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One lone complainer, and we only have one side
> of
> > the story.
>
> No, that would be three families and nine people
> who went to Bruce and were blown off.
>
> > Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet
> with
> > Bruce in private, air your concerns and
> > complaints, and see what he has to say. I have
> > never known him to be anything but judicious
> and
> > fair. Airing them here without having
> approached
> > him directly is not productive.
>
> Those three families tried that approach and got
> no where.
>
> Your advice is to keep it private, don't rock the
> boat, don't jeopardize the redistricting. Why, so
> that the kids from McNair and Floris can
> experience the same treatment.
>
> It's petty whining when its not your child. And
> your kids are out, so you won't have that fun
> experience of Bruce blowing you off to protect one
> of Realista treasures.
>
> This is a customer service function. Studies say
> every happy customer talks to three people and
> every unhappy person talks to ten people. So
> those nine people have already told 90 people
> about their dissatisfaction with Bruce. Tough to
> build support for SL that way.
Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with Bruce face to face. It sounds like you have a lot of complaintsand rather than just blowing off smoke here why not approach him directly. After all, you are one of his customers. You could also solve the 'mystery' of where he went to high school.
As far as the others go, again, we are only hearing one side of the story, which is not fair to Bruce.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One lone complainer, and we only have one side
> of
> > the story.
>
> No, that would be three families and nine people
> who went to Bruce and were blown off.
>
> > Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet
> with
> > Bruce in private, air your concerns and
> > complaints, and see what he has to say. I have
> > never known him to be anything but judicious
> and
> > fair. Airing them here without having
> approached
> > him directly is not productive.
>
> Those three families tried that approach and got
> no where.
>
> Your advice is to keep it private, don't rock the
> boat, don't jeopardize the redistricting. Why, so
> that the kids from McNair and Floris can
> experience the same treatment.
>
> It's petty whining when its not your child. And
> your kids are out, so you won't have that fun
> experience of Bruce blowing you off to protect one
> of Realista treasures.
>
> This is a customer service function. Studies say
> every happy customer talks to three people and
> every unhappy person talks to ten people. So
> those nine people have already told 90 people
> about their dissatisfaction with Bruce. Tough to
> build support for SL that way.
Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with Bruce face to face. It sounds like you have a lot of complaintsand rather than just blowing off smoke here why not approach him directly. After all, you are one of his customers. You could also solve the 'mystery' of where he went to high school.
As far as the others go, again, we are only hearing one side of the story, which is not fair to Bruce.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:52AM
No attitude intended, the "any more questions" was more for the oakton mom than you. I wanted to know if she had any more questions concerning the IB program.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:55AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reports from Robinson IB parents:
> >
> > The kids who didn't get advanced placement
> credits
> > for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> > orientation and class registration at Tech was
> in
> > late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> > grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> > freshman classes.
> >
> > In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have
> given
> > up on the IB diploma because they are being
> > crushed under the total work load. Apparently,
> if
> > you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you
> have
> > to take freshman history in senior year. So
> many
> > seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> > this year that Robinson had to create a
> freshman
> > history class populated entirely by seniors.
> >
> > If you don't want to believe your reporter, I
> can
> > have the families post on this blog.
> >
> > "I don't write the news, I just report it."
>
>
> I am an Oakton parent who is trying to be open
> minded about this whole thing, but the above quote
> really represents my concern over the AP/IB piece
> of the puzzle. I've heard the exact same story
> from a South Lakes parent whose daughter quit the
> IB program and had to take a history class her
> senior year with all freshmen. If the curriculums
> are that different, how can they possibly shift
> someone from an AP school to an IB school??
I can tell you that my children, who are at UVa, received credits in time for summer registration and had no trouble at all with the process.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reports from Robinson IB parents:
> >
> > The kids who didn't get advanced placement
> credits
> > for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> > orientation and class registration at Tech was
> in
> > late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> > grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> > freshman classes.
> >
> > In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have
> given
> > up on the IB diploma because they are being
> > crushed under the total work load. Apparently,
> if
> > you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you
> have
> > to take freshman history in senior year. So
> many
> > seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> > this year that Robinson had to create a
> freshman
> > history class populated entirely by seniors.
> >
> > If you don't want to believe your reporter, I
> can
> > have the families post on this blog.
> >
> > "I don't write the news, I just report it."
>
>
> I am an Oakton parent who is trying to be open
> minded about this whole thing, but the above quote
> really represents my concern over the AP/IB piece
> of the puzzle. I've heard the exact same story
> from a South Lakes parent whose daughter quit the
> IB program and had to take a history class her
> senior year with all freshmen. If the curriculums
> are that different, how can they possibly shift
> someone from an AP school to an IB school??
I can tell you that my children, who are at UVa, received credits in time for summer registration and had no trouble at all with the process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:57AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS
> and
> > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain
> that
> > the reason the reason a senior who dropped out
> of
> > the IB program has to take a freshmen course is
> > because freshmen year that senior would have
> taken
> > pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> > drops out of the IB program, they have to go
> back
> > and take World History I. I didn’t look this
> up
> > but I’m pretty sure of this.
>
> Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of the
> situation. But the question remains, that if the
> curriculums between AP and IB are that different,
> how can it be in any student's best interest to be
> redistricted into one program once they've begun
> another? I realize that there are ways around it
> (pupil placement), but my point is that it seems
> that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> because of this. It seems to me that if they are
> going to force kids to change schools, they
> shouldn't be able to force a change that involves
> two schools that aren't even using the same
> academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
I believe the board already stated that they would not move students already in high school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS
> and
> > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain
> that
> > the reason the reason a senior who dropped out
> of
> > the IB program has to take a freshmen course is
> > because freshmen year that senior would have
> taken
> > pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> > drops out of the IB program, they have to go
> back
> > and take World History I. I didn’t look this
> up
> > but I’m pretty sure of this.
>
> Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of the
> situation. But the question remains, that if the
> curriculums between AP and IB are that different,
> how can it be in any student's best interest to be
> redistricted into one program once they've begun
> another? I realize that there are ways around it
> (pupil placement), but my point is that it seems
> that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> because of this. It seems to me that if they are
> going to force kids to change schools, they
> shouldn't be able to force a change that involves
> two schools that aren't even using the same
> academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
I believe the board already stated that they would not move students already in high school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:58AM
Word:
You received a more polite answer than you deserved. Stick with the substance, now that you have evolved to writing more than one sentence on your pupil placement mantra.
You received a more polite answer than you deserved. Stick with the substance, now that you have evolved to writing more than one sentence on your pupil placement mantra.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:58AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you're better without the tude
So are you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> you're better without the tude
So are you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:17AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Madison Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS
> > and
> > > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain
> > that
> > > the reason the reason a senior who dropped
> out
> > of
> > > the IB program has to take a freshmen course
> is
> > > because freshmen year that senior would have
> > taken
> > > pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> > > drops out of the IB program, they have to go
> > back
> > > and take World History I. I didn’t look this
> > up
> > > but I’m pretty sure of this.
> >
> > Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of
> the
> > situation. But the question remains, that if
> the
> > curriculums between AP and IB are that
> different,
> > how can it be in any student's best interest to
> be
> > redistricted into one program once they've
> begun
> > another? I realize that there are ways around
> it
> > (pupil placement), but my point is that it
> seems
> > that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> > because of this. It seems to me that if they
> are
> > going to force kids to change schools, they
> > shouldn't be able to force a change that
> involves
> > two schools that aren't even using the same
> > academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> > needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
>
> I believe the board already stated that they would
> not move students already in high school.
This is news to me. I have not heard that. Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will never end and the purpose of the redistricting will be defeated.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Madison Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS
> > and
> > > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain
> > that
> > > the reason the reason a senior who dropped
> out
> > of
> > > the IB program has to take a freshmen course
> is
> > > because freshmen year that senior would have
> > taken
> > > pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> > > drops out of the IB program, they have to go
> > back
> > > and take World History I. I didn’t look this
> > up
> > > but I’m pretty sure of this.
> >
> > Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of
> the
> > situation. But the question remains, that if
> the
> > curriculums between AP and IB are that
> different,
> > how can it be in any student's best interest to
> be
> > redistricted into one program once they've
> begun
> > another? I realize that there are ways around
> it
> > (pupil placement), but my point is that it
> seems
> > that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> > because of this. It seems to me that if they
> are
> > going to force kids to change schools, they
> > shouldn't be able to force a change that
> involves
> > two schools that aren't even using the same
> > academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> > needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
>
> I believe the board already stated that they would
> not move students already in high school.
This is news to me. I have not heard that. Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will never end and the purpose of the redistricting will be defeated.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:37AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with
> Bruce face to face.
I'm fairly certain both Bruce and Stu are reading this blog. They're free to post a response.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with
> Bruce face to face.
I'm fairly certain both Bruce and Stu are reading this blog. They're free to post a response.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:42AM
On grandfathering:
On Herndon's PTSA FAQ:
"Will current students/families be grandfathered? Rising seniors and probably
juniors will stay at their current schools. Rising sophomores will likely stay at the
school as well; however, such a decision would be made after the boundary
changes are approved. Grandfathering policies may be different for each school."
See it for yourself at:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/FAQWebDoc.pdf
On Herndon's PTSA FAQ:
"Will current students/families be grandfathered? Rising seniors and probably
juniors will stay at their current schools. Rising sophomores will likely stay at the
school as well; however, such a decision would be made after the boundary
changes are approved. Grandfathering policies may be different for each school."
See it for yourself at:
http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/FAQWebDoc.pdf
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:45AM
Grandfathering:
It seems people may be using two definitions of grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth grade; the other is for siblings.
From what I understand, siblings will not be grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to when he said no grandfathering.
The other is grandfathering kids who already started high school. These kids would be grandfathered, from what I understand.
It seems people may be using two definitions of grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth grade; the other is for siblings.
From what I understand, siblings will not be grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to when he said no grandfathering.
The other is grandfathering kids who already started high school. These kids would be grandfathered, from what I understand.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:51AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Madison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to
> SLHS
> > > and
> > > > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost
> certain
> > > that
> > > > the reason the reason a senior who dropped
> > out
> > > of
> > > > the IB program has to take a freshmen
> course
> > is
> > > > because freshmen year that senior would
> have
> > > taken
> > > > pre-IB World History part two. If the
> senior
> > > > drops out of the IB program, they have to
> go
> > > back
> > > > and take World History I. I didn’t look
> this
> > > up
> > > > but I’m pretty sure of this.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of
> > the
> > > situation. But the question remains, that if
> > the
> > > curriculums between AP and IB are that
> > different,
> > > how can it be in any student's best interest
> to
> > be
> > > redistricted into one program once they've
> > begun
> > > another? I realize that there are ways
> around
> > it
> > > (pupil placement), but my point is that it
> > seems
> > > that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> > > because of this. It seems to me that if they
> > are
> > > going to force kids to change schools, they
> > > shouldn't be able to force a change that
> > involves
> > > two schools that aren't even using the same
> > > academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> > > needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
> >
> > I believe the board already stated that they
> would
> > not move students already in high school.
>
> This is news to me. I have not heard that.
> Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu
> Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY
> grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that
> he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will
> never end and the purpose of the redistricting
> will be defeated.
Sorry, I wish I could remember where I heard/read that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Madison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to
> SLHS
> > > and
> > > > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost
> certain
> > > that
> > > > the reason the reason a senior who dropped
> > out
> > > of
> > > > the IB program has to take a freshmen
> course
> > is
> > > > because freshmen year that senior would
> have
> > > taken
> > > > pre-IB World History part two. If the
> senior
> > > > drops out of the IB program, they have to
> go
> > > back
> > > > and take World History I. I didn’t look
> this
> > > up
> > > > but I’m pretty sure of this.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of
> > the
> > > situation. But the question remains, that if
> > the
> > > curriculums between AP and IB are that
> > different,
> > > how can it be in any student's best interest
> to
> > be
> > > redistricted into one program once they've
> > begun
> > > another? I realize that there are ways
> around
> > it
> > > (pupil placement), but my point is that it
> > seems
> > > that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> > > because of this. It seems to me that if they
> > are
> > > going to force kids to change schools, they
> > > shouldn't be able to force a change that
> > involves
> > > two schools that aren't even using the same
> > > academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> > > needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
> >
> > I believe the board already stated that they
> would
> > not move students already in high school.
>
> This is news to me. I have not heard that.
> Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu
> Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY
> grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that
> he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will
> never end and the purpose of the redistricting
> will be defeated.
Sorry, I wish I could remember where I heard/read that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:53AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On grandfathering:
>
> On Herndon's PTSA FAQ:
>
> "Will current students/families be grandfathered?
> Rising seniors and probably
> juniors will stay at their current schools. Rising
> sophomores will likely stay at the
> school as well; however, such a decision would be
> made after the boundary
> changes are approved. Grandfathering policies may
> be different for each school."
>
> See it for yourself at:
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708Bo
> undaryChanges/FAQWebDoc.pdf
Thank you for the link. I am just struck by words such as "likely" because that seems to me to be a way of getting people to relax without actually committing to the idea of leaving anyone who has started high school where they are. Plus, I'm unclear as to the source. It appears to be Jane Strauss. I apologize for being cynical about what she or Stu say, but the fact that the town meetings were scheduled after the election makes it tough for me to trust any of the incumbents right now.
-------------------------------------------------------
> On grandfathering:
>
> On Herndon's PTSA FAQ:
>
> "Will current students/families be grandfathered?
> Rising seniors and probably
> juniors will stay at their current schools. Rising
> sophomores will likely stay at the
> school as well; however, such a decision would be
> made after the boundary
> changes are approved. Grandfathering policies may
> be different for each school."
>
> See it for yourself at:
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708Bo
> undaryChanges/FAQWebDoc.pdf
Thank you for the link. I am just struck by words such as "likely" because that seems to me to be a way of getting people to relax without actually committing to the idea of leaving anyone who has started high school where they are. Plus, I'm unclear as to the source. It appears to be Jane Strauss. I apologize for being cynical about what she or Stu say, but the fact that the town meetings were scheduled after the election makes it tough for me to trust any of the incumbents right now.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:53AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with
> > Bruce face to face.
>
> I'm fairly certain both Bruce and Stu are reading
> this blog. They're free to post a response.
In my experience, face-to-face is always better and more satisfying in the end. Besides, you might end up liking him.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with
> > Bruce face to face.
>
> I'm fairly certain both Bruce and Stu are reading
> this blog. They're free to post a response.
In my experience, face-to-face is always better and more satisfying in the end. Besides, you might end up liking him.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:57AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grandfathering:
>
> It seems people may be using two definitions of
> grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth
> grade; the other is for siblings.
>
> From what I understand, siblings will not be
> grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to
> when he said no grandfathering.
>
> The other is grandfathering kids who already
> started high school. These kids would be
> grandfathered, from what I understand.
At the candidates forum at SLHS, a Westfield's parent asked specifically about grandfathering. Stu said that would be determined "after" the boundaries had been determined. Implementation processes came after the determination of the boundaries. He said those would be subject to community input as well. He gave an example of Rachel Carson middle school - they had expected to start only 7th graders at Rachel Carson, but because of community input, let some 8th graders start as well.
Obviously this is a positive example where parents wanted to move; regardless, these were his comments.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grandfathering:
>
> It seems people may be using two definitions of
> grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth
> grade; the other is for siblings.
>
> From what I understand, siblings will not be
> grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to
> when he said no grandfathering.
>
> The other is grandfathering kids who already
> started high school. These kids would be
> grandfathered, from what I understand.
At the candidates forum at SLHS, a Westfield's parent asked specifically about grandfathering. Stu said that would be determined "after" the boundaries had been determined. Implementation processes came after the determination of the boundaries. He said those would be subject to community input as well. He gave an example of Rachel Carson middle school - they had expected to start only 7th graders at Rachel Carson, but because of community input, let some 8th graders start as well.
Obviously this is a positive example where parents wanted to move; regardless, these were his comments.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:05AM
Tom, you have a lot of good things to say but it's ok if we disagree. We are each approaching this from our own respective POVs. You are free to post yours but don't get mad if I post something that contradicts your SL world view. I will continue to present my personal experiences, which I think may be helpful to people with questions about the IB program and/or leadership at the school. Since both of my children were IB Diploma students I think I have a right to post about their experiences with the program.
In my personal experience, Bruce Butler has always been responsive to requests for assistance and provides parents a forum for a fair hearing. I have never known him to be otherwise. So I think you would benefit from meeting with him to air your concerns. That you have not done so leads me to believe that you prefer to adopt an adversarial posture in this situation.
In my personal experience, Bruce Butler has always been responsive to requests for assistance and provides parents a forum for a fair hearing. I have never known him to be otherwise. So I think you would benefit from meeting with him to air your concerns. That you have not done so leads me to believe that you prefer to adopt an adversarial posture in this situation.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:12AM
hmmmmm07,
I agree that the school board should help people to relax by making statements about grandfathering definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think there is any reason why they would grandfather existing high schools students, especially because kids would not be able to make the switch to IB that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do this. Also, community input will make a difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we would start with ninth graders. This would also give time for AP to kick in. This is the only thing that makes sense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 10:15AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I agree that the school board should help people to relax by making statements about grandfathering definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think there is any reason why they would grandfather existing high schools students, especially because kids would not be able to make the switch to IB that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do this. Also, community input will make a difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we would start with ninth graders. This would also give time for AP to kick in. This is the only thing that makes sense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 10:15AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:20AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Besides, you
> might end up liking him.
I don't dislike him. His choices are bad for the school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Besides, you
> might end up liking him.
I don't dislike him. His choices are bad for the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:27AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer,
> I agree that the school board should help people
> to relax by making statements about grandfathering
> definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think
> there is any reason why they would grandfather
> existing high schools students, especially because
> kids would not be able to make the switch to IB
> that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do
> this. Also, community input will make a
> difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
>
> What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we
> would start with ninth graders. This would also
> give time for AP to kick in. This is the only
> thing that makes sense.
Agree with all above.
I personally will go to the meetings with the goal of providing analytical measured comments such as starting with 9th graders, ramping up to add AP classes to supplement IB, marketing the school's successes, and adding a parents' committee to the implementation process comprised of current SLHS and transferred parents where grievances/concerns could be discussed in a rational manner.
I've also thought about a process for the transferred incoming freshman to have mentors/buddies from currrent students but then realized that the students will be fine. It's the parents who need the support :)
The "hell no we won't go" attitude is not going to work. We've all heard the groups of parents/communities mobilizing to attend the meetings in community or school colors. I think if they approach this irrationally, their fears/claims will be dismissed as whining and self-serving.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer,
> I agree that the school board should help people
> to relax by making statements about grandfathering
> definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think
> there is any reason why they would grandfather
> existing high schools students, especially because
> kids would not be able to make the switch to IB
> that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do
> this. Also, community input will make a
> difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
>
> What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we
> would start with ninth graders. This would also
> give time for AP to kick in. This is the only
> thing that makes sense.
Agree with all above.
I personally will go to the meetings with the goal of providing analytical measured comments such as starting with 9th graders, ramping up to add AP classes to supplement IB, marketing the school's successes, and adding a parents' committee to the implementation process comprised of current SLHS and transferred parents where grievances/concerns could be discussed in a rational manner.
I've also thought about a process for the transferred incoming freshman to have mentors/buddies from currrent students but then realized that the students will be fine. It's the parents who need the support :)
The "hell no we won't go" attitude is not going to work. We've all heard the groups of parents/communities mobilizing to attend the meetings in community or school colors. I think if they approach this irrationally, their fears/claims will be dismissed as whining and self-serving.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:30AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Besides, you
> > might end up liking him.
>
> I don't dislike him. His choices are bad for the
> school.
Then meet with him and convince him of that. If your arguments are good, he will respond. Or perhaps you just like being against 'the man' or in the case of Reilly, 'the woman.'
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Besides, you
> > might end up liking him.
>
> I don't dislike him. His choices are bad for the
> school.
Then meet with him and convince him of that. If your arguments are good, he will respond. Or perhaps you just like being against 'the man' or in the case of Reilly, 'the woman.'
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:32AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That you have not done so leads me
> to believe that you prefer to adopt an adversarial
> posture in this situation.
I've been in conversations with Bruce many times since he's come to SL. My experience is that he listens very politely and then ignores you. Your experience may be different but my experience is re-enforced by that of others like the three families I reported here.
It's also the product of 11 years of frustration and being told fundamental change must wait until the redistricting is fully implemented which won't happen, if the grandfathering is granted, until 2012 or later which is more than 16 years of dissatisfaction. At which point, my youngest will be long gone from SL.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> That you have not done so leads me
> to believe that you prefer to adopt an adversarial
> posture in this situation.
I've been in conversations with Bruce many times since he's come to SL. My experience is that he listens very politely and then ignores you. Your experience may be different but my experience is re-enforced by that of others like the three families I reported here.
It's also the product of 11 years of frustration and being told fundamental change must wait until the redistricting is fully implemented which won't happen, if the grandfathering is granted, until 2012 or later which is more than 16 years of dissatisfaction. At which point, my youngest will be long gone from SL.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:33AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmmmm07,
> I agree that the school board should help people
> to relax by making statements about grandfathering
> definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think
> there is any reason why they would grandfather
> existing high schools students, especially because
> kids would not be able to make the switch to IB
> that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do
> this. Also, community input will make a
> difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
>
> What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we
> would start with ninth graders. This would also
> give time for AP to kick in. This is the only
> thing that makes sense.
I agree that it is the only thing that makes sense. But making sense is not what the current school board has done very well the last several years and therein lies the problem. I'm cynical enough at this point to realize that I just can't trust this current school board with that decision. I'll definitely vote against my incumbent and take a good hard look at the at large seats. I want someone without an agenda.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmmmm07,
> I agree that the school board should help people
> to relax by making statements about grandfathering
> definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think
> there is any reason why they would grandfather
> existing high schools students, especially because
> kids would not be able to make the switch to IB
> that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do
> this. Also, community input will make a
> difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
>
> What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we
> would start with ninth graders. This would also
> give time for AP to kick in. This is the only
> thing that makes sense.
I agree that it is the only thing that makes sense. But making sense is not what the current school board has done very well the last several years and therein lies the problem. I'm cynical enough at this point to realize that I just can't trust this current school board with that decision. I'll definitely vote against my incumbent and take a good hard look at the at large seats. I want someone without an agenda.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:43AM
How under capacity are schools like Falls Church, Marshall, JEB Stuart, Wakefield, Mt Vernon or Fairfax? Is South Lakes the only school that is currently under capacity that the school board feels the need to "fix?" If they do the right thing and phase in the students starting with ninth graders, and go on to do the right thing again by grandfathering siblings (which makes sense...splitting families is just not reasonable) then how long will it take for South Lakes to get the 600 students it wants? I'm fairly certain that the stuff I've read and the maps I've seen the last few days indicate that enrollments at both Westfield and Chantilly will have stabilized to at or under capacity and Oakton has never had the problem anyway. So I just don't get why they need to disrupt SO MANY kids in an effort to fix one particular school when there are other schools in the county with the same issues?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:50AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then meet with him and convince him of that. If
> your arguments are good, he will respond.
Trying to get Bruce to listen can be a very frustrating experience.
Linda Jones is the new DSA and former head women’s basketball coach whom Bruce appointed DSA despite the concerns of the community. The objections were at least threefold 1) her passive personality would put SL kids at a disadvantage in the Northern Region 2) her disparate treatment of people of a different color and 3) her sexual orientation.
Each of these concerns deserve it own posting so this will be a three parter.
1) During Linda’s tenure as head basketball coach hers was one of the few high schools teams that had no one from its staff actively participating in the AAU spring/summer basketball program. Since this is where college coaches scout players, and since all the other high school coaches participated in and gave preferential treatment to players going to their own high schools, but were respectful of the interests and players of other high school coaches who participated in the same AAU program, the players from SL were at a competitive disadvantage both for spots on AAU teams and for playing time on those teams.
Further during her time as head basketball coach, Linda’s was one of the few teams in the Northern Region not to film games. Thus, even when a player was able to attract the attention of a college coach, the player was unable to provide game tape to the coach. Nor did Linda ever advise players’ parents who didn’t know any better that they should be taping for their daughter’s benefit.
This is important because women’s basketball is one of just four women’s college sports in which 15 full scholarships are available at each of the over 300 D-I schools and 8 full scholarships are available at another 300 D-II schools.
Thus, Linda’s lassitude cost families real money and her player's opportunities.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then meet with him and convince him of that. If
> your arguments are good, he will respond.
Trying to get Bruce to listen can be a very frustrating experience.
Linda Jones is the new DSA and former head women’s basketball coach whom Bruce appointed DSA despite the concerns of the community. The objections were at least threefold 1) her passive personality would put SL kids at a disadvantage in the Northern Region 2) her disparate treatment of people of a different color and 3) her sexual orientation.
Each of these concerns deserve it own posting so this will be a three parter.
1) During Linda’s tenure as head basketball coach hers was one of the few high schools teams that had no one from its staff actively participating in the AAU spring/summer basketball program. Since this is where college coaches scout players, and since all the other high school coaches participated in and gave preferential treatment to players going to their own high schools, but were respectful of the interests and players of other high school coaches who participated in the same AAU program, the players from SL were at a competitive disadvantage both for spots on AAU teams and for playing time on those teams.
Further during her time as head basketball coach, Linda’s was one of the few teams in the Northern Region not to film games. Thus, even when a player was able to attract the attention of a college coach, the player was unable to provide game tape to the coach. Nor did Linda ever advise players’ parents who didn’t know any better that they should be taping for their daughter’s benefit.
This is important because women’s basketball is one of just four women’s college sports in which 15 full scholarships are available at each of the over 300 D-I schools and 8 full scholarships are available at another 300 D-II schools.
Thus, Linda’s lassitude cost families real money and her player's opportunities.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:19AM
> >
> > I believe the board already stated that they
> would
> > not move students already in high school.
>
> This is news to me. I have not heard that.
> Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu
> Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY
> grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that
> he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will
> never end and the purpose of the redistricting
> will be defeated.
We had this discussion about 10 pages ago. Again, Grandfathering is on the agenda. It is not a done deal for anyone (meaning no one has been guaranteed a grandfathering). It is imporatant that you speak your piece if necessary at the Town Hall Mtgs.
> > I believe the board already stated that they
> would
> > not move students already in high school.
>
> This is news to me. I have not heard that.
> Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu
> Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY
> grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that
> he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will
> never end and the purpose of the redistricting
> will be defeated.
We had this discussion about 10 pages ago. Again, Grandfathering is on the agenda. It is not a done deal for anyone (meaning no one has been guaranteed a grandfathering). It is imporatant that you speak your piece if necessary at the Town Hall Mtgs.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:28AM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Old Timer,
> > I agree that the school board should help
> people
> > to relax by making statements about
> grandfathering
> > definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think
> > there is any reason why they would grandfather
> > existing high schools students, especially
> because
> > kids would not be able to make the switch to IB
> > that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do
> > this. Also, community input will make a
> > difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
> >
> > What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we
> > would start with ninth graders. This would
> also
> > give time for AP to kick in. This is the only
> > thing that makes sense.
>
>
> Agree with all above.
>
> I personally will go to the meetings with the goal
> of providing analytical measured comments such as
> starting with 9th graders, ramping up to add AP
> classes to supplement IB, marketing the school's
> successes, and adding a parents' committee to the
> implementation process comprised of current SLHS
> and transferred parents where grievances/concerns
> could be discussed in a rational manner.
>
> I've also thought about a process for the
> transferred incoming freshman to have
> mentors/buddies from currrent students but then
> realized that the students will be fine. It's the
> parents who need the support :)
>
> The "hell no we won't go" attitude is not going to
> work. We've all heard the groups of
> parents/communities mobilizing to attend the
> meetings in community or school colors. I think
> if they approach this irrationally, their
> fears/claims will be dismissed as whining and
> self-serving.
Are you all suggesting rising 9th graders or existing 9th graders?
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Old Timer,
> > I agree that the school board should help
> people
> > to relax by making statements about
> grandfathering
> > definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think
> > there is any reason why they would grandfather
> > existing high schools students, especially
> because
> > kids would not be able to make the switch to IB
> > that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do
> > this. Also, community input will make a
> > difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
> >
> > What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we
> > would start with ninth graders. This would
> also
> > give time for AP to kick in. This is the only
> > thing that makes sense.
>
>
> Agree with all above.
>
> I personally will go to the meetings with the goal
> of providing analytical measured comments such as
> starting with 9th graders, ramping up to add AP
> classes to supplement IB, marketing the school's
> successes, and adding a parents' committee to the
> implementation process comprised of current SLHS
> and transferred parents where grievances/concerns
> could be discussed in a rational manner.
>
> I've also thought about a process for the
> transferred incoming freshman to have
> mentors/buddies from currrent students but then
> realized that the students will be fine. It's the
> parents who need the support :)
>
> The "hell no we won't go" attitude is not going to
> work. We've all heard the groups of
> parents/communities mobilizing to attend the
> meetings in community or school colors. I think
> if they approach this irrationally, their
> fears/claims will be dismissed as whining and
> self-serving.
Are you all suggesting rising 9th graders or existing 9th graders?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:31AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grandfathering:
>
> It seems people may be using two definitions of
> grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth
> grade; the other is for siblings.
>
> From what I understand, siblings will not be
> grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to
> when he said no grandfathering.
>
> The other is grandfathering kids who already
> started high school. These kids would be
> grandfathered, from what I understand.
And when Stop-RD is successful next Tuesday, we won't have to worry about Stu's vaporous promises!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grandfathering:
>
> It seems people may be using two definitions of
> grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth
> grade; the other is for siblings.
>
> From what I understand, siblings will not be
> grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to
> when he said no grandfathering.
>
> The other is grandfathering kids who already
> started high school. These kids would be
> grandfathered, from what I understand.
And when Stop-RD is successful next Tuesday, we won't have to worry about Stu's vaporous promises!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:33AM
Is South Lakes the only school that is currently under capacity that the school board feels the need to "fix?"
I think the board feels this one is worth saving. Most of the others they have given up on and/or they are surrounded by other problem schools so there is no out.
I think the board feels this one is worth saving. Most of the others they have given up on and/or they are surrounded by other problem schools so there is no out.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:59AM
Cricket,
Grandfathering existing ninth graders-- rising ninth graders will go to SL. At the SL meeting it was stated that, because SL is an existing school, there is no rush to "fill" it, so it will start with rising ninth graders.
Of course, this is subject to constructive community input. If the community has concerns that can reasonably be addressed (and "we aren't going" is not included here).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 12:00PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Grandfathering existing ninth graders-- rising ninth graders will go to SL. At the SL meeting it was stated that, because SL is an existing school, there is no rush to "fill" it, so it will start with rising ninth graders.
Of course, this is subject to constructive community input. If the community has concerns that can reasonably be addressed (and "we aren't going" is not included here).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 12:00PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:01PM
Cricket Wrote:
> > I personally will go to the meetings with the
> goal
> > of providing analytical measured comments such
> as
> > starting with 9th graders, ramping up to add AP
> > classes to supplement IB, marketing the
> school's
> > successes, and adding a parents' committee to
> the
> > implementation process comprised of current
> SLHS
> > and transferred parents where
> grievances/concerns
> > could be discussed in a rational manner.
> >
> > I've also thought about a process for the
> > transferred incoming freshman to have
> > mentors/buddies from currrent students but then
> > realized that the students will be fine. It's
> the
> > parents who need the support :)
> >
> > The "hell no we won't go" attitude is not going
> to
> > work. We've all heard the groups of
> > parents/communities mobilizing to attend the
> > meetings in community or school colors. I
> think
> > if they approach this irrationally, their
> > fears/claims will be dismissed as whining and
> > self-serving.
>
> Are you all suggesting rising 9th graders or
> existing 9th graders?
Rising 9th graders.
I haven't heard from anyone who would want to move EXISTING high school students. As a parent, I think siblings should be kept in the same school as well.
> > I personally will go to the meetings with the
> goal
> > of providing analytical measured comments such
> as
> > starting with 9th graders, ramping up to add AP
> > classes to supplement IB, marketing the
> school's
> > successes, and adding a parents' committee to
> the
> > implementation process comprised of current
> SLHS
> > and transferred parents where
> grievances/concerns
> > could be discussed in a rational manner.
> >
> > I've also thought about a process for the
> > transferred incoming freshman to have
> > mentors/buddies from currrent students but then
> > realized that the students will be fine. It's
> the
> > parents who need the support :)
> >
> > The "hell no we won't go" attitude is not going
> to
> > work. We've all heard the groups of
> > parents/communities mobilizing to attend the
> > meetings in community or school colors. I
> think
> > if they approach this irrationally, their
> > fears/claims will be dismissed as whining and
> > self-serving.
>
> Are you all suggesting rising 9th graders or
> existing 9th graders?
Rising 9th graders.
I haven't heard from anyone who would want to move EXISTING high school students. As a parent, I think siblings should be kept in the same school as well.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:04PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the SL meeting it
> was stated that, because SL is an existing school,
> there is no rush to "fill" it, so it will start
> with rising ninth graders.
Stu didn't say that Marie Allen a parent and former PTA officer did. Stu did not respond.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the SL meeting it
> was stated that, because SL is an existing school,
> there is no rush to "fill" it, so it will start
> with rising ninth graders.
Stu didn't say that Marie Allen a parent and former PTA officer did. Stu did not respond.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:05PM
Or maybe the school board could agree to pupil place siblings of a certain age (at least 7th grade or something like that). This could drag out forever if siblings younger than that were grandfathered, and I have no idea how the bussing would be able to be handled then.
Plus, younger kids might be mored concerned about being with their friends in the neighborhood than to go where their older sibs went.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 12:15PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Plus, younger kids might be mored concerned about being with their friends in the neighborhood than to go where their older sibs went.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 12:15PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:11PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > At the SL meeting it
> > was stated that, because SL is an existing
> school,
> > there is no rush to "fill" it, so it will start
> > with rising ninth graders.
>
> Stu didn't say that Marie Allen a parent and
> former PTA officer did. Stu did not respond.
I thought his non-response was a tacit agreement. He did not object to that statement. When questioned further, he did say that siblings would not be grandfathered. But again, I think this is negotiable and should be brought up at the meetings. I can't imagine why we would not allow grandfathering if it would make people happi(er). Why would he care?
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > At the SL meeting it
> > was stated that, because SL is an existing
> school,
> > there is no rush to "fill" it, so it will start
> > with rising ninth graders.
>
> Stu didn't say that Marie Allen a parent and
> former PTA officer did. Stu did not respond.
I thought his non-response was a tacit agreement. He did not object to that statement. When questioned further, he did say that siblings would not be grandfathered. But again, I think this is negotiable and should be brought up at the meetings. I can't imagine why we would not allow grandfathering if it would make people happi(er). Why would he care?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:12PM
>
> Rising 9th graders.
>
> I haven't heard from anyone who would want to move
> EXISTING high school students. As a parent, I
> think siblings should be kept in the same school
> as well.
Well, I agree with you. My guess is that younger siblings will most likely have to request a pupil-placement. But regardless, there have been differing things suggested by a number of different board members and county planning officials (Stu's words, heard at the mtgs. referred to above, are not in tune with what his peers are suggesting). Again, I wrote about this in previous posts. And I will add that grandfathering left a bitter taste in the FCPS transportation office after the Oakton/Chantilly/C-ville shift to Westfield. Because of this, folks should be prepared to speak up about grandfathering.
> Rising 9th graders.
>
> I haven't heard from anyone who would want to move
> EXISTING high school students. As a parent, I
> think siblings should be kept in the same school
> as well.
Well, I agree with you. My guess is that younger siblings will most likely have to request a pupil-placement. But regardless, there have been differing things suggested by a number of different board members and county planning officials (Stu's words, heard at the mtgs. referred to above, are not in tune with what his peers are suggesting). Again, I wrote about this in previous posts. And I will add that grandfathering left a bitter taste in the FCPS transportation office after the Oakton/Chantilly/C-ville shift to Westfield. Because of this, folks should be prepared to speak up about grandfathering.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
IB Good
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:18PM
Thomas
Calculus is Calculus whether you get AP or IB credit. Why would Bruce have 2 separate classes? If you really THINK about what Bruce says you'll understand.
I'm not sure why you hate the administration so much - I don't think you know why either.
Whatever your problem is you aren't helping
Calculus is Calculus whether you get AP or IB credit. Why would Bruce have 2 separate classes? If you really THINK about what Bruce says you'll understand.
I'm not sure why you hate the administration so much - I don't think you know why either.
Whatever your problem is you aren't helping
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:21PM
How many SL parents would be opposed to rethinking the whole IB thing? I know I wouldn't, but I don't have kids in high school yet.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SRE
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:35PM
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
resource allocation-later start times
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:45PM
Grandfathering is difficult [uses more busses] and I think South Lakes and Hughes should share busses. But, Stu G isn't matching up the middle and high schools. Other than the GT center, is there anyone at Hughes who does not currently feed to South Lakes?
With less grandfathering and a relatively concise boundary SOUTH LAKES SHOULD HAVE LATER START TIMES coordinating with the feeder elementary schools.
The IB/ AP issue is a problem - how many actually get the IB diploma historically? If it's less than 50 who are in-boundary for South Lakes they can get bussed to Marshall [add a stop to the TJ shuttle].
South Lakes has 55 at other schools now for AP [44]and curriculum [9] with 43 placed at South Lakes for IB [26 herndon,2 langley, 3 madison, 1 chantilly, 3 westfield, 8 oakton]. I wonder how many of the pupil placements are diploma candidates or get the diploma in any school year. South Lakes has an IB pupil placement at Marshall...odd.
With less grandfathering and a relatively concise boundary SOUTH LAKES SHOULD HAVE LATER START TIMES coordinating with the feeder elementary schools.
The IB/ AP issue is a problem - how many actually get the IB diploma historically? If it's less than 50 who are in-boundary for South Lakes they can get bussed to Marshall [add a stop to the TJ shuttle].
South Lakes has 55 at other schools now for AP [44]and curriculum [9] with 43 placed at South Lakes for IB [26 herndon,2 langley, 3 madison, 1 chantilly, 3 westfield, 8 oakton]. I wonder how many of the pupil placements are diploma candidates or get the diploma in any school year. South Lakes has an IB pupil placement at Marshall...odd.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 01, 2007 12:55PM
To SL Parents (Parity/Padre/whatever),
How about talking your neighbors into attending SLHS instead of letting them go to private schools? Face it. We have a sorry excuse for a Fairfax County Public School, and for you to be posting on a message board instead of actually DOING SOMETHING for the past 10 years is a real shame. Its no wonder you want to cherry pick from the better surrounding elementary schools. Those parents and students might actually affect a change. And it would make our lives easier by letting someone else handle our burden.
Yeah, I know. I live in Reston. But there's NO WAY I would let my children attend SLHS. Better start checking for when those entrance exams are for private school!
How about talking your neighbors into attending SLHS instead of letting them go to private schools? Face it. We have a sorry excuse for a Fairfax County Public School, and for you to be posting on a message board instead of actually DOING SOMETHING for the past 10 years is a real shame. Its no wonder you want to cherry pick from the better surrounding elementary schools. Those parents and students might actually affect a change. And it would make our lives easier by letting someone else handle our burden.
Yeah, I know. I live in Reston. But there's NO WAY I would let my children attend SLHS. Better start checking for when those entrance exams are for private school!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:10PM
IB Good Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas
> Calculus is Calculus whether you get AP or IB
> credit.
Have you just ignored the last 25 pages or skipped over alll of them. There's a question whether the material in IB Calculus covers as much as the material in AP Calculus. At least one highly regarded math teacher at SL who was familiar with both said IB covered less.
There's a question whether the IB Calculus class will even allow you to advance place out of the college Calculas requirement at the college you want go to. Have you checked that out yet.
Even if that college accepts IB credits, there's a question as to whether the score from the IB Calculus test will be reported in time to your college to get the advanced placement.
There's a question whether the homework burden in IB is less or more than AP. At least 30 kids at Robinson dropped out of the IB program because the work load was too heavy. Those 30 kids now have to take a freshman history course. In 11 years with kids in high school, I've never heard of that at an AP program.
There's a questioin as to why IB was imposed on SL without community consultation.
These are legitimate issues. They are legitimate reason for parents from AP pyramids to want not to go to SL. If they are not addressed the opposition to the redistricting will only get louder. Pupil placement by those opposed to IB will be greater in numbers.
Anyone with aspirations for college ought to be able to summarize these issues and realize its not about hating any one or anything.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas
> Calculus is Calculus whether you get AP or IB
> credit.
Have you just ignored the last 25 pages or skipped over alll of them. There's a question whether the material in IB Calculus covers as much as the material in AP Calculus. At least one highly regarded math teacher at SL who was familiar with both said IB covered less.
There's a question whether the IB Calculus class will even allow you to advance place out of the college Calculas requirement at the college you want go to. Have you checked that out yet.
Even if that college accepts IB credits, there's a question as to whether the score from the IB Calculus test will be reported in time to your college to get the advanced placement.
There's a question whether the homework burden in IB is less or more than AP. At least 30 kids at Robinson dropped out of the IB program because the work load was too heavy. Those 30 kids now have to take a freshman history course. In 11 years with kids in high school, I've never heard of that at an AP program.
There's a questioin as to why IB was imposed on SL without community consultation.
These are legitimate issues. They are legitimate reason for parents from AP pyramids to want not to go to SL. If they are not addressed the opposition to the redistricting will only get louder. Pupil placement by those opposed to IB will be greater in numbers.
Anyone with aspirations for college ought to be able to summarize these issues and realize its not about hating any one or anything.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:10PM
Spanky--most of my neighbors do send their kids to SL or plan to.
What are YOU doing?
What are YOU doing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
won'tgo
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:21PM
Already checked out the private schoools - the question is, how many others have done the same thing? Is there going to be anyone left to attend a school that they don't want to attend? Do you have any idea how many people are going to try to pupil place out of SL? The school board is giong to cut off that option once people start doing that in droves.
Regardless, the bottom line is if parents really don't want their kids to go there they won't be going there. So for you who said, "we won't go won't work", yes, actually, it will, if people are left with no other choice.
Regardless, the bottom line is if parents really don't want their kids to go there they won't be going there. So for you who said, "we won't go won't work", yes, actually, it will, if people are left with no other choice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:23PM
> South Lakes has 55 at other schools now for AP [44]
This number would increase 10 times that amount if an AP program is not put in place along with redistricting.
This number would increase 10 times that amount if an AP program is not put in place along with redistricting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:24PM
SRE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...this is the thread that will not end.... it
> just goes on and on my friend..... some people
> started posting to it, not knowing what it
> was..... and they will continue posting to it
> forever just because...
thanks, Lamp Chop
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...this is the thread that will not end.... it
> just goes on and on my friend..... some people
> started posting to it, not knowing what it
> was..... and they will continue posting to it
> forever just because...
thanks, Lamp Chop
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:26PM
I did what any responsible parent in the SLHS pyramid would do - either move or send my children to private school, like roughly half of my neighbors.
Don't get me wrong - I like Reston, but SLHS is a boil.
Don't get me wrong - I like Reston, but SLHS is a boil.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:32PM
I thought you just said we should convince our neighbors to not go, bear our burden, but you are unwilling to take your own advice.
You are partly the reason we are in this predicament of being underenrolled.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 01:44PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
You are partly the reason we are in this predicament of being underenrolled.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 01:44PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
IBgood
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:49PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB Good Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas
> > Calculus is Calculus whether you get AP or IB
> > credit.
>
> Have you just ignored the last 25 pages or skipped
> over alll of them. There's a question whether the
> material in IB Calculus covers as much as the
> material in AP Calculus. At least one highly
> regarded math teacher at SL who was familiar with
> both said IB covered less.
>
> There's a question whether the IB Calculus class
> will even allow you to advance place out of the
> college Calculas requirement at the college you
> want go to. Have you checked that out yet.
>
> Even if that college accepts IB credits, there's a
> question as to whether the score from the IB
> Calculus test will be reported in time to your
> college to get the advanced placement.
>
> There's a question whether the homework burden in
> IB is less or more than AP. At least 30 kids at
> Robinson dropped out of the IB program because the
> work load was too heavy. Those 30 kids now have
> to take a freshman history course. In 11 years
> with kids in high school, I've never heard of that
> at an AP program.
>
> There's a questioin as to why IB was imposed on SL
> without community consultation.
>
> These are legitimate issues. They are legitimate
> reason for parents from AP pyramids to want not to
> go to SL. If they are not addressed the
> opposition to the redistricting will only get
> louder. Pupil placement by those opposed to IB
> will be greater in numbers.
>
> Anyone with aspirations for college ought to be
> able to summarize these issues and realize its
> not about hating any one or anything.
I have taken the IB math courses while in Europe and have a degree in mathematics. I also was offered a full scholarship at Mich State to do a PhD in Math without completing my Masters.
I don't believe the IB program has been "dummed" down for the Americans so I believe that colleges do honor and accept it. I tutored students in Math while in grad school - don't even try and tell me that AP is superior.
Frankly if those 30 kids dropped out it is because they are lazy and the parents aren't committed to helping them.
The scared AP parents must do their due diligence and truly learn about the program. Everything I am reading from these AP parents is that they are haters and are using IB as an excuse to sequester their children in all white affluent "elite-class" community.
BOTTOM LINE - learn about the program and make choices based on fact not fear
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB Good Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas
> > Calculus is Calculus whether you get AP or IB
> > credit.
>
> Have you just ignored the last 25 pages or skipped
> over alll of them. There's a question whether the
> material in IB Calculus covers as much as the
> material in AP Calculus. At least one highly
> regarded math teacher at SL who was familiar with
> both said IB covered less.
>
> There's a question whether the IB Calculus class
> will even allow you to advance place out of the
> college Calculas requirement at the college you
> want go to. Have you checked that out yet.
>
> Even if that college accepts IB credits, there's a
> question as to whether the score from the IB
> Calculus test will be reported in time to your
> college to get the advanced placement.
>
> There's a question whether the homework burden in
> IB is less or more than AP. At least 30 kids at
> Robinson dropped out of the IB program because the
> work load was too heavy. Those 30 kids now have
> to take a freshman history course. In 11 years
> with kids in high school, I've never heard of that
> at an AP program.
>
> There's a questioin as to why IB was imposed on SL
> without community consultation.
>
> These are legitimate issues. They are legitimate
> reason for parents from AP pyramids to want not to
> go to SL. If they are not addressed the
> opposition to the redistricting will only get
> louder. Pupil placement by those opposed to IB
> will be greater in numbers.
>
> Anyone with aspirations for college ought to be
> able to summarize these issues and realize its
> not about hating any one or anything.
I have taken the IB math courses while in Europe and have a degree in mathematics. I also was offered a full scholarship at Mich State to do a PhD in Math without completing my Masters.
I don't believe the IB program has been "dummed" down for the Americans so I believe that colleges do honor and accept it. I tutored students in Math while in grad school - don't even try and tell me that AP is superior.
Frankly if those 30 kids dropped out it is because they are lazy and the parents aren't committed to helping them.
The scared AP parents must do their due diligence and truly learn about the program. Everything I am reading from these AP parents is that they are haters and are using IB as an excuse to sequester their children in all white affluent "elite-class" community.
BOTTOM LINE - learn about the program and make choices based on fact not fear
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:54PM
Sorry to put you and other SL Parents in this predicament. My children's education is far more important than "the better good" of a public school, particularly SL.
My point is if you can't convince your neighbors in Reston to go to the public school, what makes you think you can convince outsiders to do the same?
Believe me, I wish I could have saved the private education tuition.
Be careful what you wish for SL parents. You might get it. Then your children will be the bottom performers scholastically and athletically.
And call IB or what any program will be at SL - lipstick on a pig.
Nuff said.
My point is if you can't convince your neighbors in Reston to go to the public school, what makes you think you can convince outsiders to do the same?
Believe me, I wish I could have saved the private education tuition.
Be careful what you wish for SL parents. You might get it. Then your children will be the bottom performers scholastically and athletically.
And call IB or what any program will be at SL - lipstick on a pig.
Nuff said.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 01:57PM
Parents are looking for ways to keep their kids in the schools that they are currently attending for a variety of reasons. AP / IB (pupil placement) is one of the ways that is supported by county policy. That does not make them anit-diversity or elite or any of that other trash you like to spew.
The fact of the matter is that whites in Reston have abandoned the school in droves, while populations of African Americans, Hispanics and Asians have either remained the same or increased. So who is anti-diversity?
The fact of the matter is that whites in Reston have abandoned the school in droves, while populations of African Americans, Hispanics and Asians have either remained the same or increased. So who is anti-diversity?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:08PM
> South Lakes has an IB pupil placement at
> Marshall...odd.
Not really, the student was expelled from SL.
> Marshall...odd.
Not really, the student was expelled from SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:12PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought you just said we should convince our
> neighbors to not go, bear our burden, but you are
> unwilling to take your own advice.
>
> You are partly the reason we are in this
> predicament of being underenrolled.
Well put, SLPP.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought you just said we should convince our
> neighbors to not go, bear our burden, but you are
> unwilling to take your own advice.
>
> You are partly the reason we are in this
> predicament of being underenrolled.
Well put, SLPP.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:18PM
IB Good,
You think you were tutoring the smart ones???
hahahaha
You are all morons. I'll have to tell my children not to hire your dumb a$$ when/if you graduate with your "IB learnin" diploma.
Thankfully we have lots of restaurants in Reston to hire the SL grads.
See you redistricted folks at Prep!
You think you were tutoring the smart ones???
hahahaha
You are all morons. I'll have to tell my children not to hire your dumb a$$ when/if you graduate with your "IB learnin" diploma.
Thankfully we have lots of restaurants in Reston to hire the SL grads.
See you redistricted folks at Prep!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:23PM
word Wrote:
>
> The fact of the matter is that whites in Reston
> have abandoned the school in droves, while
> populations of African Americans, Hispanics and
> Asians have either remained the same or increased.
> So who is anti-diversity?
I guess that would be the people who left.
Word, one thing that you don't get is that most middle class (not white) families of younger children in Reston fully intend to send their children to South Lakes, particularly because of the renovation, new leadership at SL and LH, and a generally more positive attitude in the community about the school.
You and others (e.g. Thomas More) can't keep dredging up old news as a way to argue against redistricting. You simply must understand that things have changed. If families are now committed, does that not tell you something?
With regards to pupil-placing, I was under the impression that in order to pupil place to an AP school, one must commit to getting the AP diploma. Can anyone confirm that and if it is true, just how many of those students looking to take just a handful of AP classes will qualify to be pupil placed?
I am not sure that your theory about pupil placing really holds much water. This same threat was made when the board decided that Fox Mill Woods would stay in the South Lakes pyramid. At first there were a flurry of home sales and pupil placements, but things have settled down and many, many children from that neighborhood go to South Lakes.
>
> The fact of the matter is that whites in Reston
> have abandoned the school in droves, while
> populations of African Americans, Hispanics and
> Asians have either remained the same or increased.
> So who is anti-diversity?
I guess that would be the people who left.
Word, one thing that you don't get is that most middle class (not white) families of younger children in Reston fully intend to send their children to South Lakes, particularly because of the renovation, new leadership at SL and LH, and a generally more positive attitude in the community about the school.
You and others (e.g. Thomas More) can't keep dredging up old news as a way to argue against redistricting. You simply must understand that things have changed. If families are now committed, does that not tell you something?
With regards to pupil-placing, I was under the impression that in order to pupil place to an AP school, one must commit to getting the AP diploma. Can anyone confirm that and if it is true, just how many of those students looking to take just a handful of AP classes will qualify to be pupil placed?
I am not sure that your theory about pupil placing really holds much water. This same threat was made when the board decided that Fox Mill Woods would stay in the South Lakes pyramid. At first there were a flurry of home sales and pupil placements, but things have settled down and many, many children from that neighborhood go to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
We are all one county
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:23PM
Really, I thought the pupil placement to Marshall was my kid's friend who wanted to take a language that is offered at Marshall that isn't at SL.....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:28PM
spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB Good,
> You think you were tutoring the smart ones???
>
> hahahaha
> You are all morons. I'll have to tell my children
> not to hire your dumb a$$ when/if you graduate
> with your "IB learnin" diploma.
>
> Thankfully we have lots of restaurants in Reston
> to hire the SL grads.
>
> See you redistricted folks at Prep!
Real nice, 'panky. Tell me, is that private tuition really worth it? Actually, if your children learn to rit and cipher better'n you, then I guess it will have been.
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB Good,
> You think you were tutoring the smart ones???
>
> hahahaha
> You are all morons. I'll have to tell my children
> not to hire your dumb a$$ when/if you graduate
> with your "IB learnin" diploma.
>
> Thankfully we have lots of restaurants in Reston
> to hire the SL grads.
>
> See you redistricted folks at Prep!
Real nice, 'panky. Tell me, is that private tuition really worth it? Actually, if your children learn to rit and cipher better'n you, then I guess it will have been.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:30PM
We are all one county Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, I thought the pupil placement to Marshall
> was my kid's friend who wanted to take a language
> that is offered at Marshall that isn't at SL.....
Perhaps there are two. I definitely 100% know one is there because of expulsion.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, I thought the pupil placement to Marshall
> was my kid's friend who wanted to take a language
> that is offered at Marshall that isn't at SL.....
Perhaps there are two. I definitely 100% know one is there because of expulsion.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:33PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are all one county Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Really, I thought the pupil placement to
> Marshall
> > was my kid's friend who wanted to take a
> language
> > that is offered at Marshall that isn't at
> SL.....
>
> Perhaps there are two. I definitely 100% know one
> is there because of expulsion.
Confusion solved. I just remembered that the student had been at SL as a pupil placement from Oakton, so his placement to Marshall would be on Oakton's records, not SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are all one county Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Really, I thought the pupil placement to
> Marshall
> > was my kid's friend who wanted to take a
> language
> > that is offered at Marshall that isn't at
> SL.....
>
> Perhaps there are two. I definitely 100% know one
> is there because of expulsion.
Confusion solved. I just remembered that the student had been at SL as a pupil placement from Oakton, so his placement to Marshall would be on Oakton's records, not SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:38PM
Hey I believe there are alot families of all colors that want to support the school and I think that's great.
The main point about pupil placement is if you all would only implement AP this problem will go away. But there seems to be some religous committment to IB that prevents it from happening, and I don't understand that. I posted the link to pupil placement a few pages back. It is allowed. You could even be pupil placed for non AP courses like Sign Language or Japanese.
The main point about pupil placement is if you all would only implement AP this problem will go away. But there seems to be some religous committment to IB that prevents it from happening, and I don't understand that. I posted the link to pupil placement a few pages back. It is allowed. You could even be pupil placed for non AP courses like Sign Language or Japanese.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:48PM
IBgood Wrote:
------
> I have taken the IB math courses while in Europe
> and have a degree in mathematics. I also was
> offered a full scholarship at Mich State to do a
> PhD in Math without completing my Masters.
> I don't believe the IB program has been "dummed"
> down for the Americans so I believe that colleges
> do honor and accept it.
Our research to date suggests that IB is not universally accepted at US universities and may be quite restricted. Getting a straight answer from the IB website has been daunting given the natue of the entries. but you'd know that if you had read the prior pages in this thread.
I tutored students in Math
> while in grad school - don't even try and tell me
> that AP is superior.
I'm not but a SL math teacher who already had their PhD is. Again if you had read the prior pages you'd know that.
> Frankly if those 30 kids dropped out it is because
> they are lazy and the parents aren't committed to
> helping them.
You have no basis to cast aspersions on these kids or their parents. How dare you! Is this the kind of smug condescension for all things American that IB in europe taught you? Is IB a curriculum or a religion like scientology? Because that's certainly the response of a zealot. It also a great advertisement for the open mindedness developed by participation in IB that the IB website spends paragraphs and pages promoting.
> The scared AP parents must do their due diligence
> and truly learn about the program. Everything I am
> reading from these AP parents is that they are
> haters and are using IB as an excuse to sequester
> their children in all white affluent "elite-class"
> community.
>
> BOTTOM LINE - learn about the program and make
> choices based on fact not fear
We have and that's the source of these questions. Ignore them if you wish. But an advocate responds to issues and doesn't engage in ad hominem attacks on the questioners.
------
> I have taken the IB math courses while in Europe
> and have a degree in mathematics. I also was
> offered a full scholarship at Mich State to do a
> PhD in Math without completing my Masters.
> I don't believe the IB program has been "dummed"
> down for the Americans so I believe that colleges
> do honor and accept it.
Our research to date suggests that IB is not universally accepted at US universities and may be quite restricted. Getting a straight answer from the IB website has been daunting given the natue of the entries. but you'd know that if you had read the prior pages in this thread.
I tutored students in Math
> while in grad school - don't even try and tell me
> that AP is superior.
I'm not but a SL math teacher who already had their PhD is. Again if you had read the prior pages you'd know that.
> Frankly if those 30 kids dropped out it is because
> they are lazy and the parents aren't committed to
> helping them.
You have no basis to cast aspersions on these kids or their parents. How dare you! Is this the kind of smug condescension for all things American that IB in europe taught you? Is IB a curriculum or a religion like scientology? Because that's certainly the response of a zealot. It also a great advertisement for the open mindedness developed by participation in IB that the IB website spends paragraphs and pages promoting.
> The scared AP parents must do their due diligence
> and truly learn about the program. Everything I am
> reading from these AP parents is that they are
> haters and are using IB as an excuse to sequester
> their children in all white affluent "elite-class"
> community.
>
> BOTTOM LINE - learn about the program and make
> choices based on fact not fear
We have and that's the source of these questions. Ignore them if you wish. But an advocate responds to issues and doesn't engage in ad hominem attacks on the questioners.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
resource allocation
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:52PM
SLVerity Wrote:
> ...Confusion solved. I just remembered that the
> student had been at SL as a pupil placement from
> Oakton, so his placement to Marshall would be on
> Oakton's records, not SL.
Oakton shows 4 at Marshall for IB. That kid should be under other administrative placement if it was an expulsion - perhaps the expulsion period is over.
I think Falls Church is the most pupil placed out [5 in, 88 out]of school in the county and most likely has low numbers feeding out to privates. That thing is so under populated they could have tweaked boundaries, moved the Jackson kids into it, and called it a secondary school. Instead they built an addition on it and Stu G allowed Vienna GT kids to be shipped to Jackson.
> ...Confusion solved. I just remembered that the
> student had been at SL as a pupil placement from
> Oakton, so his placement to Marshall would be on
> Oakton's records, not SL.
Oakton shows 4 at Marshall for IB. That kid should be under other administrative placement if it was an expulsion - perhaps the expulsion period is over.
I think Falls Church is the most pupil placed out [5 in, 88 out]of school in the county and most likely has low numbers feeding out to privates. That thing is so under populated they could have tweaked boundaries, moved the Jackson kids into it, and called it a secondary school. Instead they built an addition on it and Stu G allowed Vienna GT kids to be shipped to Jackson.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 02:59PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You and others (e.g. Thomas More) can't keep
> dredging up old news
Its relevant if the people who created that "old news" are still there.
> as a way to argue against
> redistricting.
I want redistricting. I want Aldrin. I want all of Reston's kids to go to Reston's high school: SL. And I want a South Lakes that's worthy of the kids that are sent there now. The current school is not. Until there is a massive upgrade in the instructional and administrative staff that Railly left us, it won't be.
Don't tell me to wait until the redistricting is fully implemented in 2012 and everything will be perfect. I've been putting up with it for 11 years and my kids will be long gone by then.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 03:00PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You and others (e.g. Thomas More) can't keep
> dredging up old news
Its relevant if the people who created that "old news" are still there.
> as a way to argue against
> redistricting.
I want redistricting. I want Aldrin. I want all of Reston's kids to go to Reston's high school: SL. And I want a South Lakes that's worthy of the kids that are sent there now. The current school is not. Until there is a massive upgrade in the instructional and administrative staff that Railly left us, it won't be.
Don't tell me to wait until the redistricting is fully implemented in 2012 and everything will be perfect. I've been putting up with it for 11 years and my kids will be long gone by then.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 03:00PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 01, 2007 03:03PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word, one thing that you don't get is that most
> middle class (not white) families of younger
> children in Reston fully intend to send their
> children to South Lakes, particularly because of
> the renovation, new leadership at SL and LH, and a
> generally more positive attitude in the community
> about the school.
Yep, that's me and my neighbors. We've seen how the older neighborhood kids are succeeding at SLHS. They're the National Honor Society students, the cheerleaders, the band "geeks," the baseball/football/lacrosse players, and they're all doing swimmingly. None have seen "gangs" or violent behavior. They've been around diversity longer than we have - they have no racial prejudices and have friends from all walks of life and every color spectrum. They're the ones who are quick to point out that no one has black skin, it's actually brown.
Neighbors didn't want to go to the elementary school either because there weren't enough "blonde" kids. Funny how everyone was in parochial school or other private schools. They're all in our elementary school now and LOVE IT! And amazingly, both parents and children learned important life lessons like "poor" isn't a disease that you catch and not everyone lives in big homes with two+ cars.
> I am not sure that your theory about pupil placing
> really holds much water. This same threat was
> made when the board decided that Fox Mill Woods
> would stay in the South Lakes pyramid. At first
> there were a flurry of home sales and pupil
> placements, but things have settled down and many,
> many children from that neighborhood go to South
> Lakes.
There are some people not worth responding too - spanky sounds a little bitter...That private school tuition must be putting a dent in the budget!
Plus all that phone time making playdates with "school friends" and car time driving to and from activities far away activities while all the other kids in the 'hood are outside playing together probably makes one a little bitter...
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word, one thing that you don't get is that most
> middle class (not white) families of younger
> children in Reston fully intend to send their
> children to South Lakes, particularly because of
> the renovation, new leadership at SL and LH, and a
> generally more positive attitude in the community
> about the school.
Yep, that's me and my neighbors. We've seen how the older neighborhood kids are succeeding at SLHS. They're the National Honor Society students, the cheerleaders, the band "geeks," the baseball/football/lacrosse players, and they're all doing swimmingly. None have seen "gangs" or violent behavior. They've been around diversity longer than we have - they have no racial prejudices and have friends from all walks of life and every color spectrum. They're the ones who are quick to point out that no one has black skin, it's actually brown.
Neighbors didn't want to go to the elementary school either because there weren't enough "blonde" kids. Funny how everyone was in parochial school or other private schools. They're all in our elementary school now and LOVE IT! And amazingly, both parents and children learned important life lessons like "poor" isn't a disease that you catch and not everyone lives in big homes with two+ cars.
> I am not sure that your theory about pupil placing
> really holds much water. This same threat was
> made when the board decided that Fox Mill Woods
> would stay in the South Lakes pyramid. At first
> there were a flurry of home sales and pupil
> placements, but things have settled down and many,
> many children from that neighborhood go to South
> Lakes.
There are some people not worth responding too - spanky sounds a little bitter...That private school tuition must be putting a dent in the budget!
Plus all that phone time making playdates with "school friends" and car time driving to and from activities far away activities while all the other kids in the 'hood are outside playing together probably makes one a little bitter...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 03:25PM
SLVerity Wrote:
>
> Real nice, 'panky. Tell me, is that private
> tuition really worth it? Actually, if your
> children learn to rit and cipher better'n you,
> then I guess it will have been.
have to giggle at this. this board, by far, beats sudoku addiction.
>
> Real nice, 'panky. Tell me, is that private
> tuition really worth it? Actually, if your
> children learn to rit and cipher better'n you,
> then I guess it will have been.
have to giggle at this. this board, by far, beats sudoku addiction.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 03:26PM
I have a friend whose neighbor had her daughter at pupil placed at Crossfield, and was steadfast about not sending her to Hughes. The daughter is now at Hughes and is the "happiest she's ever been". The neighbor is now "eating crow", according to my friend.
Yes, an inclusive environment can be better for anyone's child, not just black or asian. Many white children aren't "cookie cutter" and might benefit from a more tolerant environment.
Yes, an inclusive environment can be better for anyone's child, not just black or asian. Many white children aren't "cookie cutter" and might benefit from a more tolerant environment.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 04:47PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> > Real nice, 'panky. Tell me, is that private
> > tuition really worth it? Actually, if your
> > children learn to rit and cipher better'n you,
> > then I guess it will have been.
>
>
> have to giggle at this. this board, by far, beats
> sudoku addiction.
See how fun we SL parents can be?
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> > Real nice, 'panky. Tell me, is that private
> > tuition really worth it? Actually, if your
> > children learn to rit and cipher better'n you,
> > then I guess it will have been.
>
>
> have to giggle at this. this board, by far, beats
> sudoku addiction.
See how fun we SL parents can be?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 04:57PM
Dear Tom,
We agree on several things, and one of them is that North Reston kids should never have been moved to Herndon. There are many who think Reston is a failed social experiment and they base that on their opinions of South Lakes; however, if South Lakes had the students from N. Reston, then the socioeconomic balance would be pretty near perfect. Unfortunately, our community has been partitioned and I don't think the redistricting decisions will restore it. At least I can suggest and hope.
Incidentally, Cathy Hudgins lives in North Reston and she has never done or said anything to restore the rift. I have had numerous frustrating conversations with her about the schools, glut of affordable housing in South Reston, etc. She is all about adding affordable housing south of Baron Cameron, but I have only seen her propose a handful of units in North Reston. I guess she wants to protect her investment while she throws us under a bus. I hope many of you are considering supporting Marie Huthala (forgive the spelling). She would be a welcome change.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 04:59PM by SLVerity.
We agree on several things, and one of them is that North Reston kids should never have been moved to Herndon. There are many who think Reston is a failed social experiment and they base that on their opinions of South Lakes; however, if South Lakes had the students from N. Reston, then the socioeconomic balance would be pretty near perfect. Unfortunately, our community has been partitioned and I don't think the redistricting decisions will restore it. At least I can suggest and hope.
Incidentally, Cathy Hudgins lives in North Reston and she has never done or said anything to restore the rift. I have had numerous frustrating conversations with her about the schools, glut of affordable housing in South Reston, etc. She is all about adding affordable housing south of Baron Cameron, but I have only seen her propose a handful of units in North Reston. I guess she wants to protect her investment while she throws us under a bus. I hope many of you are considering supporting Marie Huthala (forgive the spelling). She would be a welcome change.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 04:59PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: November 01, 2007 05:09PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Tom,
>
> We agree on several things, and one of them is
> that North Reston kids should never have been
> moved to Herndon. There are many who think Reston
> is a failed social experiment and they base that
> on their opinions of South Lakes; however, if
> South Lakes had the students from N. Reston, then
> the socioeconomic balance would be pretty near
> perfect. Unfortunately, our community has been
> partitioned and I don't think the redistricting
> decisions will restore it. At least I can suggest
> and hope.
>
> Incidentally, Cathy Hudgins lives in North Reston
> and she has never done or said anything to restore
> the rift. I have had numerous frustrating
> conversations with her about the schools, glut of
> affordable housing in South Reston, etc. She is
> all about adding affordable housing south of Baron
> Cameron, but I have only seen her propose a
> handful of units in North Reston. I guess she
> wants to protect her investment while she throws
> us under a bus. I hope many of you are
> considering supporting Marie Huthala (forgive the
> spelling). She would be a welcome change.
Is Hudgins in boundary for Langley, South Lakes, or Herndon? Forest Edge is near Aldrin and people in it's attendance area are closer to Langley than some of those bussed to Langley ... send the Edge to Langley? Is that any more absurd than the current bussing?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Tom,
>
> We agree on several things, and one of them is
> that North Reston kids should never have been
> moved to Herndon. There are many who think Reston
> is a failed social experiment and they base that
> on their opinions of South Lakes; however, if
> South Lakes had the students from N. Reston, then
> the socioeconomic balance would be pretty near
> perfect. Unfortunately, our community has been
> partitioned and I don't think the redistricting
> decisions will restore it. At least I can suggest
> and hope.
>
> Incidentally, Cathy Hudgins lives in North Reston
> and she has never done or said anything to restore
> the rift. I have had numerous frustrating
> conversations with her about the schools, glut of
> affordable housing in South Reston, etc. She is
> all about adding affordable housing south of Baron
> Cameron, but I have only seen her propose a
> handful of units in North Reston. I guess she
> wants to protect her investment while she throws
> us under a bus. I hope many of you are
> considering supporting Marie Huthala (forgive the
> spelling). She would be a welcome change.
Is Hudgins in boundary for Langley, South Lakes, or Herndon? Forest Edge is near Aldrin and people in it's attendance area are closer to Langley than some of those bussed to Langley ... send the Edge to Langley? Is that any more absurd than the current bussing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 05:13PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought his non-response was a tacit agreement.
> He did not object to that statement.
What's ironic is that Robert Bolt in his play about my namesake, A Man for All Seasons, has him say precisely that, but in Latin:
Qui tacit consentire videtur, ubi tractatur de ejus commodo - he who is silent is considered as assenting, when his interest is at stake.
Unfortunately for us in these circumstances that ancient principal of Roman law was overridden by our 5th Amendment which states that a person cannot be compelled to testify against themselves.
Thus, unless Stu affirmatively agreed, you have nothing to rely upon.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 05:13PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought his non-response was a tacit agreement.
> He did not object to that statement.
What's ironic is that Robert Bolt in his play about my namesake, A Man for All Seasons, has him say precisely that, but in Latin:
Qui tacit consentire videtur, ubi tractatur de ejus commodo - he who is silent is considered as assenting, when his interest is at stake.
Unfortunately for us in these circumstances that ancient principal of Roman law was overridden by our 5th Amendment which states that a person cannot be compelled to testify against themselves.
Thus, unless Stu affirmatively agreed, you have nothing to rely upon.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 05:13PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 05:34PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Tom,
>
> We agree on several things
Yes, we do, more often than not.
> Unfortunately, our community has been
> partitioned and I don't think the redistricting
> decisions will restore it.
What makes you write that?
> At least I can suggest
> and hope.
and pray.
I could content myself with just Aldrin.
Has anyone put the RA boundaries over the Aldrin & Armstrong attendance areas to see how much of each is in and out of Reston. I'm thinking most of Armstrong is outside Reston's boundaries but all of Aldrin is in Reston.
If Reston were a town, the School division would never think of partitioning Reston's kids.
> Incidentally, Cathy Hudgins lives in North Reston
Nomenclature inquiry: Is North Reston north of the Toll Road or North of Baron Cameron.
I've always referred to North Reston as the part between the Toll Road and Baron Cameron and North Point as the part of Reston north of Baron Cameron. How do other people desingate these areas?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Tom,
>
> We agree on several things
Yes, we do, more often than not.
> Unfortunately, our community has been
> partitioned and I don't think the redistricting
> decisions will restore it.
What makes you write that?
> At least I can suggest
> and hope.
and pray.
I could content myself with just Aldrin.
Has anyone put the RA boundaries over the Aldrin & Armstrong attendance areas to see how much of each is in and out of Reston. I'm thinking most of Armstrong is outside Reston's boundaries but all of Aldrin is in Reston.
If Reston were a town, the School division would never think of partitioning Reston's kids.
> Incidentally, Cathy Hudgins lives in North Reston
Nomenclature inquiry: Is North Reston north of the Toll Road or North of Baron Cameron.
I've always referred to North Reston as the part between the Toll Road and Baron Cameron and North Point as the part of Reston north of Baron Cameron. How do other people desingate these areas?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 05:47PM
Cricket
Following up on our bus counting from McNair south of the Toll Road exchange of a few days ago.
Only saw two buses this morning. Not doubting your veracity, just want to make sure we have the right count. Did you have a source for the 8 buses mentioned earlier?
One bus that I saw had 48 seats and was half full. Another had 36 seats and was 2/3 full.
If all 8 buses held 48 seats and were totally full its 384 to Westfield from that part of McNair. So obviously we looking at less than that number.
Still waiting to find out how many of them are free lunch. SLPP any luck on that?
More Later
Following up on our bus counting from McNair south of the Toll Road exchange of a few days ago.
Only saw two buses this morning. Not doubting your veracity, just want to make sure we have the right count. Did you have a source for the 8 buses mentioned earlier?
One bus that I saw had 48 seats and was half full. Another had 36 seats and was 2/3 full.
If all 8 buses held 48 seats and were totally full its 384 to Westfield from that part of McNair. So obviously we looking at less than that number.
Still waiting to find out how many of them are free lunch. SLPP any luck on that?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
ibnutz
()
Date: November 01, 2007 05:50PM
Ive always considered north of the toll road north reston, but north of baron cameron is like north NORTH reston, i think that feeling comes mostly because it is in the herndon district.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 01, 2007 06:02PM
I guess technically people lump Lake Ann in with North Reston, so I will refer to North of Baron Cameron as North Point. ALL of Aldrin is in RA and about 50% of Aldrin.
The bonus of having those two schools in SL would be that Reston Youth Leagues would be better. Lots of NP kids currently play sports in Herndon, since they will be going there for HS. The partition not only hurt SL, but also youth sports leagues.
The problem with respect to redistricting is that moving those two schools will have more of a domino effect. However, McNair and Floris could move to Herndon, which would relieve Westfield. Incidentally, I believe Armstrong has Stuart Woods apartments, which house some lower income students.
Hudgins is Board of Supervisors, not School board, but she could have had some sway in uniting the community over the years, and she never did. Her kids went to Herndon. She made many housing decisions that did not directly impact her neighborhood or schools at all.
The bonus of having those two schools in SL would be that Reston Youth Leagues would be better. Lots of NP kids currently play sports in Herndon, since they will be going there for HS. The partition not only hurt SL, but also youth sports leagues.
The problem with respect to redistricting is that moving those two schools will have more of a domino effect. However, McNair and Floris could move to Herndon, which would relieve Westfield. Incidentally, I believe Armstrong has Stuart Woods apartments, which house some lower income students.
Hudgins is Board of Supervisors, not School board, but she could have had some sway in uniting the community over the years, and she never did. Her kids went to Herndon. She made many housing decisions that did not directly impact her neighborhood or schools at all.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 06:26PM
ibnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive always considered north of the toll road north
> reston, but north of baron cameron is like north
> NORTH reston, i think that feeling comes mostly
> because it is in the herndon district.
Its still part of hunter mill district and not dranesville like the town of hendon and dranesville road.
there is of course no right answer. How people refer to places says more about them than the place I guess.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive always considered north of the toll road north
> reston, but north of baron cameron is like north
> NORTH reston, i think that feeling comes mostly
> because it is in the herndon district.
Its still part of hunter mill district and not dranesville like the town of hendon and dranesville road.
there is of course no right answer. How people refer to places says more about them than the place I guess.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
ibnutz
()
Date: November 01, 2007 06:28PM
by herndon district i meant herndon high school, not board of supervisors/school board.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 06:58PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ALL of Aldrin is in RA
> and about 50% of Aldrin.
I'm sure you meant 50% of Armstong. right?
> The bonus of having those two schools in SL would
> be that Reston Youth Leagues would be better.
> Lots of NP kids currently play sports in Herndon,
> since they will be going there for HS. The
> partition not only hurt SL, but also youth sports
> leagues.
Having coached/parented etc.in Rston Little League ("RLL") since 1989, it's actually the other way around. Families from North Point sign up for tee-ball with RLL because North Point is part of RLL's franchise area. The parents go to opening day at the Town Center Ice Rink/Pavillion thinking their kids will later become the South Lakes players who also march in the opening day parade. Only later did I break the news to them that they'd be going to Herndon High. They were uniformly disappointed. A few would later sign up with Herndon Optimist's Cal Ripken league but the vast majority stayed with RLL. What hurt these kids later was when they tried out for the Herndon high school team, the Herndon coaches hadn't heard of them but would know the kids from the Cal Ripken league teams. The North Point kids were treat like aliens at Herndon. Even the kids who played for HOYS CaL Ripken league were treated as "others" by the "townies" of Herndon.
As kids progressed in RLL, if the manager's son was going to HHS, the SL kid got sent to the outfield and sat the bench except for the minimum number of at bats at the bottom of the order. If the manager's son was going to SL the reversed happened. It was sad and we have Lou Zone to thank for it.
> The problem with respect to redistricting is that
> moving those two schools will have more of a
> domino effect. However, McNair and Floris could
> move to Herndon, which would relieve Westfield.
And if we can establish that the Westfield potion of McNair has low free lunch numbers, as I suspect it does. Then moving the balance of McNair into Herndon improves Herndon and moving Aldrin into South Lakes reunifies Reston. A win-win for both Herndon and Reston.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 07:07PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ALL of Aldrin is in RA
> and about 50% of Aldrin.
I'm sure you meant 50% of Armstong. right?
> The bonus of having those two schools in SL would
> be that Reston Youth Leagues would be better.
> Lots of NP kids currently play sports in Herndon,
> since they will be going there for HS. The
> partition not only hurt SL, but also youth sports
> leagues.
Having coached/parented etc.in Rston Little League ("RLL") since 1989, it's actually the other way around. Families from North Point sign up for tee-ball with RLL because North Point is part of RLL's franchise area. The parents go to opening day at the Town Center Ice Rink/Pavillion thinking their kids will later become the South Lakes players who also march in the opening day parade. Only later did I break the news to them that they'd be going to Herndon High. They were uniformly disappointed. A few would later sign up with Herndon Optimist's Cal Ripken league but the vast majority stayed with RLL. What hurt these kids later was when they tried out for the Herndon high school team, the Herndon coaches hadn't heard of them but would know the kids from the Cal Ripken league teams. The North Point kids were treat like aliens at Herndon. Even the kids who played for HOYS CaL Ripken league were treated as "others" by the "townies" of Herndon.
As kids progressed in RLL, if the manager's son was going to HHS, the SL kid got sent to the outfield and sat the bench except for the minimum number of at bats at the bottom of the order. If the manager's son was going to SL the reversed happened. It was sad and we have Lou Zone to thank for it.
> The problem with respect to redistricting is that
> moving those two schools will have more of a
> domino effect. However, McNair and Floris could
> move to Herndon, which would relieve Westfield.
And if we can establish that the Westfield potion of McNair has low free lunch numbers, as I suspect it does. Then moving the balance of McNair into Herndon improves Herndon and moving Aldrin into South Lakes reunifies Reston. A win-win for both Herndon and Reston.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 07:07PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 07:06PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket
>
> Following up on our bus counting from McNair south
> of the Toll Road exchange of a few days ago.
>
> Only saw two buses this morning. Not doubting
> your veracity, just want to make sure we have the
> right count. Did you have a source for the 8 buses
> mentioned earlier?
>
> One bus that I saw had 48 seats and was half full.
> Another had 36 seats and was 2/3 full.
>
> If all 8 buses held 48 seats and were totally full
> its 384 to Westfield from that part of McNair. So
> obviously we looking at less than that number.
>
> Still waiting to find out how many of them are
> free lunch. SLPP any luck on that?
My source is from the Westfield Bus Schedule. I don't think you can watch all 8 leave from one vantage point. They are scattered around Clock Tower, Woodland Park, throughout the communities on the Dulles side of Centreville Road and along Fox Mill Rd.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket
>
> Following up on our bus counting from McNair south
> of the Toll Road exchange of a few days ago.
>
> Only saw two buses this morning. Not doubting
> your veracity, just want to make sure we have the
> right count. Did you have a source for the 8 buses
> mentioned earlier?
>
> One bus that I saw had 48 seats and was half full.
> Another had 36 seats and was 2/3 full.
>
> If all 8 buses held 48 seats and were totally full
> its 384 to Westfield from that part of McNair. So
> obviously we looking at less than that number.
>
> Still waiting to find out how many of them are
> free lunch. SLPP any luck on that?
My source is from the Westfield Bus Schedule. I don't think you can watch all 8 leave from one vantage point. They are scattered around Clock Tower, Woodland Park, throughout the communities on the Dulles side of Centreville Road and along Fox Mill Rd.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 07:20PM
Cricket Wrote:
> My source is from the Westfield Bus Schedule. I
> don't think you can watch all 8 leave from one
> vantage point. They are scattered around Clock
> Tower, Woodland Park, throughout the communities
> on the Dulles side of Centreville Road and along
> Fox Mill Rd.
Thanks I thought as much. I'll scout around some more tomorrow.
More Later
> My source is from the Westfield Bus Schedule. I
> don't think you can watch all 8 leave from one
> vantage point. They are scattered around Clock
> Tower, Woodland Park, throughout the communities
> on the Dulles side of Centreville Road and along
> Fox Mill Rd.
Thanks I thought as much. I'll scout around some more tomorrow.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:02PM
Thomas,
Have not heard back from the powers that be about McNair south of the toll road. Wouldn't that be a nice solution for balance--Aldrin and Armstrong back in SL, and Herndon gets (the higher socioeconomic part of) McNair and Floris.
I guess we'll see about McNair.
SLVerity--Yes, vote for Maria! I'm tired of Hudgins and her predictably idealistic view that Reston should provide all of the county's affordable housing, and all will be wonderful. I'm worried that Maria and Spike will split the anti-Hudgins vote and allow her to win.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 08:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Have not heard back from the powers that be about McNair south of the toll road. Wouldn't that be a nice solution for balance--Aldrin and Armstrong back in SL, and Herndon gets (the higher socioeconomic part of) McNair and Floris.
I guess we'll see about McNair.
SLVerity--Yes, vote for Maria! I'm tired of Hudgins and her predictably idealistic view that Reston should provide all of the county's affordable housing, and all will be wonderful. I'm worried that Maria and Spike will split the anti-Hudgins vote and allow her to win.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 08:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:07PM
Cricket,
Which specific neighborhoods do you think are affordable housing?
Which specific neighborhoods do you think are affordable housing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:26PM
Regarding the scenario where Herndon picks up McNair and South Lakes picks up Aldrin and Armstrong...(and disregarding the politics of such a move)
Basically McNair compensates for both Aldrin and Armstrong. Floris not involved
McNair = 941 students / 134 avg class size (/7) / 538 HS 4yr class size (*4)
Armstrong = 460 / 66 / 263
Aldrin = 550 / 79 / 314
HS 4yr class size
McNair = 538
Armstrong + Aldrin = 577
Herndon population would decrease by 39 seats. Since Herndon has some of the McNair students already, it may decrease a bit more (my guess 50 more).
South Lakes would pick up 577 seats. South Lakes currently has 657 available seats. If you add in the Madison Island (approx 30) you're basically done with 50 to spare.
Basically McNair compensates for both Aldrin and Armstrong. Floris not involved
McNair = 941 students / 134 avg class size (/7) / 538 HS 4yr class size (*4)
Armstrong = 460 / 66 / 263
Aldrin = 550 / 79 / 314
HS 4yr class size
McNair = 538
Armstrong + Aldrin = 577
Herndon population would decrease by 39 seats. Since Herndon has some of the McNair students already, it may decrease a bit more (my guess 50 more).
South Lakes would pick up 577 seats. South Lakes currently has 657 available seats. If you add in the Madison Island (approx 30) you're basically done with 50 to spare.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VOTER
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:39PM
hey folks my parents say
just vote next tuesday
get kathy smith out
no one will need to pout
get a newbie in
and we all win
you say IB
we say AP
you make me a seahawk
and i'll take a long walk
herndon/chantilly/oakton/westfield stick together
and we will weather
this storm.
take note...
get out the vote
NO SMITTY
would be no pity!!!
just vote next tuesday
get kathy smith out
no one will need to pout
get a newbie in
and we all win
you say IB
we say AP
you make me a seahawk
and i'll take a long walk
herndon/chantilly/oakton/westfield stick together
and we will weather
this storm.
take note...
get out the vote
NO SMITTY
would be no pity!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 08:54PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding the scenario where Herndon picks up
> McNair and South Lakes picks up Aldrin and
> Armstrong...(and disregarding the politics of such
> a move)
>
> Basically McNair compensates for both Aldrin and
> Armstrong. Floris not involved
>
> McNair = 941 students / 134 avg class size (/7) /
> 538 HS 4yr class size (*4)
> Armstrong = 460 / 66 / 263
> Aldrin = 550 / 79 / 314
>
> HS 4yr class size
> McNair = 538
> Armstrong + Aldrin = 577
>
> Herndon population would decrease by 39 seats.
> Since Herndon has some of the McNair students
> already, it may decrease a bit more (my guess 50
> more).
>
> South Lakes would pick up 577 seats. South Lakes
> currently has 657 available seats. If you add in
> the Madison Island (approx 30) you're basically
> done with 50 to spare.
Great work.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding the scenario where Herndon picks up
> McNair and South Lakes picks up Aldrin and
> Armstrong...(and disregarding the politics of such
> a move)
>
> Basically McNair compensates for both Aldrin and
> Armstrong. Floris not involved
>
> McNair = 941 students / 134 avg class size (/7) /
> 538 HS 4yr class size (*4)
> Armstrong = 460 / 66 / 263
> Aldrin = 550 / 79 / 314
>
> HS 4yr class size
> McNair = 538
> Armstrong + Aldrin = 577
>
> Herndon population would decrease by 39 seats.
> Since Herndon has some of the McNair students
> already, it may decrease a bit more (my guess 50
> more).
>
> South Lakes would pick up 577 seats. South Lakes
> currently has 657 available seats. If you add in
> the Madison Island (approx 30) you're basically
> done with 50 to spare.
Great work.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 09:51PM
And now for a little bedtime reading, the saga of Linda Jones continues:
2) At the end of Linda’s second to last season as head coach, as the season was coming to an end, a black parent of a black junior player turned to one of his white friends who was also the parent of another player and asked, in kindness and sincerity “Do think Linda’s a racist?” The white parent hemmed and hawed and finally said “ya I think she has a problem. She clearly has given preferential treatment to the Jones girls. I can’t imagine her putting up with that act from a white parent and girls for three years.” The inquiring black parent subsequently moved his family so his younger daughter could play for Westfield instead of SL.
A few games before, as SL had a 30 point lead on a team at the start of the 4th quarter, [yes, there was a time when SL girls had thirty point leads on teams in the Concorde District at the end of the third quarter] Linda cleared the beach. One by one the juniors were put into the game until only two guards were left on the bench: a white junior and the only sophomore, a black girl. At the next time out, the black sophomore was sent into the game. As the game wound down and the white junior was the only one left in her warm ups, the moms of the other players asked the white junior’s parents if she was hurt. “No, she’s fine.”, her mom answered. The question went around the parents “What’s wrong with [the junior]?” Finally, a black father’s voice was heard from the back “wrong color.” As the parents heads turned to see the Dad of the starting senior center, he was shaking his head, “I’m really sorry Linda’s like that but what are you gonna’ do.”
Whether this bias is conscientious or not, I cannot say, but the kids caught on faster than the parents. Over the last 6 years of her tenure, 3 blond blue eyed centers quit on Linda. All three would have started at any other high school in FFX. The last one went on to play college ball after sitting out her high school senior year.
But the Jones family fiasco tops it all. In 1996 Virginia Jones entered SL as a freshman joining her older sister, Candy. Both were short black girls with an assessment of their own ability that exceeded everyone else’s except their father’s. Virginia was immediately placed on the varsity ahead of several sophomores and juniors. Though more slender, Linda Jones had also been a short guard at SL. She was not related to these girls.
When the Jones girl’s were not given all of the playing time during an early season non district game that first year, Dad stormed into the girls locker room and chewed out Linda, loud enough for it to be heard in the corridor outside. This type of behavior continued for three years.
The Jones girls passed the ball principally to each other even when other girls on the team were open. These teammates of the Jones sisters included five girls who played or were offered scholarships to D-I programs. They didn’t need the Jones sisters to carry them. They needed the Jones girls to get them the ball.
The Jones girls had one particular competitor for playing time. X was a team player and a superior guard, certainly superior to either of the Jones sisters. Those two sisters made this poor kid’s life a nightmare with trash talk and physical abuse. She was white and during high school she lost her father under very tragic circumstances. The Jones girls never let up on the abuse and Linda did nothing to stop it.
Finally, in the third year of this horror show, Mr. Jones went too far. He went to court and accused Linda of assaulting one of his daughters. The charges were bogus. The parents of the other players unamimously stood up for Linda despite their suspicions about her racism. Usually charges against a teacher are heard in juvenile court behind closed doors. Judge Roush took the unusual step of holding the trial in open court. After rebuking the Jones strenuously for bringing false charges, she exonerated Linda.
The next day all of the parents, black and white, said to each other “Do you think this would have gone on for three years if the Jones girls had been tall blond centers instead of short black guards?”
The girls lost every game the next year and, eight years later, girls basketball at SL has yet to recover to the levels of achievement it attained before Linda decided to give Virginia and Candy preferential treatment.
I think Bruce was at SL during the Jones sisters fiasco. He was certainly there the next year when he sat on the screening committee to pick Linda’s successor as head basketball coach and many of the issues of Linda’s tenure came up during those meetings.
Maybe he just forgot all this history seven years later when he promoted Linda to DSA. Maybe he hoped we had forgotten but the players and parents who experienced those three seasons from hell will never forget.
2) At the end of Linda’s second to last season as head coach, as the season was coming to an end, a black parent of a black junior player turned to one of his white friends who was also the parent of another player and asked, in kindness and sincerity “Do think Linda’s a racist?” The white parent hemmed and hawed and finally said “ya I think she has a problem. She clearly has given preferential treatment to the Jones girls. I can’t imagine her putting up with that act from a white parent and girls for three years.” The inquiring black parent subsequently moved his family so his younger daughter could play for Westfield instead of SL.
A few games before, as SL had a 30 point lead on a team at the start of the 4th quarter, [yes, there was a time when SL girls had thirty point leads on teams in the Concorde District at the end of the third quarter] Linda cleared the beach. One by one the juniors were put into the game until only two guards were left on the bench: a white junior and the only sophomore, a black girl. At the next time out, the black sophomore was sent into the game. As the game wound down and the white junior was the only one left in her warm ups, the moms of the other players asked the white junior’s parents if she was hurt. “No, she’s fine.”, her mom answered. The question went around the parents “What’s wrong with [the junior]?” Finally, a black father’s voice was heard from the back “wrong color.” As the parents heads turned to see the Dad of the starting senior center, he was shaking his head, “I’m really sorry Linda’s like that but what are you gonna’ do.”
Whether this bias is conscientious or not, I cannot say, but the kids caught on faster than the parents. Over the last 6 years of her tenure, 3 blond blue eyed centers quit on Linda. All three would have started at any other high school in FFX. The last one went on to play college ball after sitting out her high school senior year.
But the Jones family fiasco tops it all. In 1996 Virginia Jones entered SL as a freshman joining her older sister, Candy. Both were short black girls with an assessment of their own ability that exceeded everyone else’s except their father’s. Virginia was immediately placed on the varsity ahead of several sophomores and juniors. Though more slender, Linda Jones had also been a short guard at SL. She was not related to these girls.
When the Jones girl’s were not given all of the playing time during an early season non district game that first year, Dad stormed into the girls locker room and chewed out Linda, loud enough for it to be heard in the corridor outside. This type of behavior continued for three years.
The Jones girls passed the ball principally to each other even when other girls on the team were open. These teammates of the Jones sisters included five girls who played or were offered scholarships to D-I programs. They didn’t need the Jones sisters to carry them. They needed the Jones girls to get them the ball.
The Jones girls had one particular competitor for playing time. X was a team player and a superior guard, certainly superior to either of the Jones sisters. Those two sisters made this poor kid’s life a nightmare with trash talk and physical abuse. She was white and during high school she lost her father under very tragic circumstances. The Jones girls never let up on the abuse and Linda did nothing to stop it.
Finally, in the third year of this horror show, Mr. Jones went too far. He went to court and accused Linda of assaulting one of his daughters. The charges were bogus. The parents of the other players unamimously stood up for Linda despite their suspicions about her racism. Usually charges against a teacher are heard in juvenile court behind closed doors. Judge Roush took the unusual step of holding the trial in open court. After rebuking the Jones strenuously for bringing false charges, she exonerated Linda.
The next day all of the parents, black and white, said to each other “Do you think this would have gone on for three years if the Jones girls had been tall blond centers instead of short black guards?”
The girls lost every game the next year and, eight years later, girls basketball at SL has yet to recover to the levels of achievement it attained before Linda decided to give Virginia and Candy preferential treatment.
I think Bruce was at SL during the Jones sisters fiasco. He was certainly there the next year when he sat on the screening committee to pick Linda’s successor as head basketball coach and many of the issues of Linda’s tenure came up during those meetings.
Maybe he just forgot all this history seven years later when he promoted Linda to DSA. Maybe he hoped we had forgotten but the players and parents who experienced those three seasons from hell will never forget.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:46PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
>
> > My source is from the Westfield Bus Schedule.
> I
> > don't think you can watch all 8 leave from one
> > vantage point. They are scattered around Clock
> > Tower, Woodland Park, throughout the
> communities
> > on the Dulles side of Centreville Road and
> along
> > Fox Mill Rd.
>
> Thanks I thought as much. I'll scout around some
> more tomorrow.
Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage the research. However, I do caution you (and others) not to spend too much time sitting at the curb or doing "back of the napkin" enrollment calculations. What is McNair today, is not necessarily what will be McNair tomorrow. And because of this, it would be unwise for the communities surrounding McNair to let it go anywhere without a fight. These same communities will face yet another boundary study in 08-09 with the opening of Coppermine. The make up of all schools surrounding McNair (Hutchinson, Dogwood, Floris, Fox Mill) could change in a year. What looks ideal to some, today, may not be the same tomorrow. Not saying it will be any less ideal, just not the same. Communities on the Dulles side of Ffx. Pkwy. will not have their blinders on when it comes to McNair. A good position at the end of this study does not lead to stability for very long. It just never ends and this is one reason why many people in these communities are pissed off. You would think that the county would be wise and tackle this boundary at the same time, since there is so much at stake. But then again, that is too smart.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 10:47PM by Cricket.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
>
> > My source is from the Westfield Bus Schedule.
> I
> > don't think you can watch all 8 leave from one
> > vantage point. They are scattered around Clock
> > Tower, Woodland Park, throughout the
> communities
> > on the Dulles side of Centreville Road and
> along
> > Fox Mill Rd.
>
> Thanks I thought as much. I'll scout around some
> more tomorrow.
Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage the research. However, I do caution you (and others) not to spend too much time sitting at the curb or doing "back of the napkin" enrollment calculations. What is McNair today, is not necessarily what will be McNair tomorrow. And because of this, it would be unwise for the communities surrounding McNair to let it go anywhere without a fight. These same communities will face yet another boundary study in 08-09 with the opening of Coppermine. The make up of all schools surrounding McNair (Hutchinson, Dogwood, Floris, Fox Mill) could change in a year. What looks ideal to some, today, may not be the same tomorrow. Not saying it will be any less ideal, just not the same. Communities on the Dulles side of Ffx. Pkwy. will not have their blinders on when it comes to McNair. A good position at the end of this study does not lead to stability for very long. It just never ends and this is one reason why many people in these communities are pissed off. You would think that the county would be wise and tackle this boundary at the same time, since there is so much at stake. But then again, that is too smart.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 10:47PM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 10:52PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Regarding the scenario where Herndon picks up
> > McNair and South Lakes picks up Aldrin and
> > Armstrong...(and disregarding the politics of
> such
> > a move)
> >
> > Basically McNair compensates for both Aldrin
> and
> > Armstrong. Floris not involved
> >
> > McNair = 941 students / 134 avg class size (/7)
> /
> > 538 HS 4yr class size (*4)
> > Armstrong = 460 / 66 / 263
> > Aldrin = 550 / 79 / 314
> >
> > HS 4yr class size
> > McNair = 538
> > Armstrong + Aldrin = 577
> >
> > Herndon population would decrease by 39 seats.
> > Since Herndon has some of the McNair students
> > already, it may decrease a bit more (my guess
> 50
> > more).
> >
> > South Lakes would pick up 577 seats. South
> Lakes
> > currently has 657 available seats. If you add
> in
> > the Madison Island (approx 30) you're basically
> > done with 50 to spare.
>
> Great work.
Glad you all got this figured out. And why would Oakton and Chantilly be included in this study?
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Regarding the scenario where Herndon picks up
> > McNair and South Lakes picks up Aldrin and
> > Armstrong...(and disregarding the politics of
> such
> > a move)
> >
> > Basically McNair compensates for both Aldrin
> and
> > Armstrong. Floris not involved
> >
> > McNair = 941 students / 134 avg class size (/7)
> /
> > 538 HS 4yr class size (*4)
> > Armstrong = 460 / 66 / 263
> > Aldrin = 550 / 79 / 314
> >
> > HS 4yr class size
> > McNair = 538
> > Armstrong + Aldrin = 577
> >
> > Herndon population would decrease by 39 seats.
> > Since Herndon has some of the McNair students
> > already, it may decrease a bit more (my guess
> 50
> > more).
> >
> > South Lakes would pick up 577 seats. South
> Lakes
> > currently has 657 available seats. If you add
> in
> > the Madison Island (approx 30) you're basically
> > done with 50 to spare.
>
> Great work.
Glad you all got this figured out. And why would Oakton and Chantilly be included in this study?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:05PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage
> the research.
You are kind.
> These same communities
> will face yet another boundary study in 08-09 with
> the opening of Coppermine.
Does anyone know anything about this new school at Coopermine?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage
> the research.
You are kind.
> These same communities
> will face yet another boundary study in 08-09 with
> the opening of Coppermine.
Does anyone know anything about this new school at Coopermine?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:05PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad you all got this figured out. And why would
> Oakton and Chantilly be included in this study?
Floris has to go somewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad you all got this figured out. And why would
> Oakton and Chantilly be included in this study?
Floris has to go somewhere.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:07PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Glad you all got this figured out. And why
> would
> > Oakton and Chantilly be included in this study?
>
> Floris has to go somewhere.
To Westfield.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Glad you all got this figured out. And why
> would
> > Oakton and Chantilly be included in this study?
>
> Floris has to go somewhere.
To Westfield.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:12PM
What I left off the above scenario was this. Since Westfield would be losing 500+ students they would pick up some 250+ from Chantilly because they are overcrowded. Thereby bringing them both in line. These would have to come from the west edge of Chantilly TBD.
There will be scenarios that involve Oakton as well. Stay tuned.
There will be scenarios that involve Oakton as well. Stay tuned.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:15PM
Coppermine - http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=80209&paper=66&cat=104
Note the reference to South Lakes.
Note the reference to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:18PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage
> > the research.
>
> You are kind.
>
> > These same communities
> > will face yet another boundary study in 08-09
> with
> > the opening of Coppermine.
>
> Does anyone know anything about this new school at
> Coopermine?
Ask your developer friends, they should have some idea. And then ask Stu, cuz he does too.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage
> > the research.
>
> You are kind.
>
> > These same communities
> > will face yet another boundary study in 08-09
> with
> > the opening of Coppermine.
>
> Does anyone know anything about this new school at
> Coopermine?
Ask your developer friends, they should have some idea. And then ask Stu, cuz he does too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:22PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coppermine -
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> chive=true&article=80209&paper=66&cat=104
>
> Note the reference to South Lakes.
Except the article has it wrong. The discussion doesn't start until next Fall (2008).
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coppermine -
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> chive=true&article=80209&paper=66&cat=104
>
> Note the reference to South Lakes.
Except the article has it wrong. The discussion doesn't start until next Fall (2008).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:27PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask your developer friends, they should have some
> idea.
How would the developers know anything about an elementary school? Developers often give the land and money for schools but they don't build schools
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask your developer friends, they should have some
> idea.
How would the developers know anything about an elementary school? Developers often give the land and money for schools but they don't build schools
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:41PM
since developers are giving land and money for schools, I think they know something about the elementary school. if nothing else they are the most familiar with whatever deal they cut with the county/school board. Oh yeah, and don't they help dream up some of those silly numbers the county uses to calculate future enrollments (I could be wrong) at impacted schools. You weren't too specific with your question. So possibly the article that word gave link to above has the best recent information. or google it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:45PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket
>
> Following up on our bus counting from McNair south
> of the Toll Road exchange of a few days ago.
>
> Only saw two buses this morning. Not doubting
> your veracity, just want to make sure we have the
> right count. Did you have a source for the 8 buses
> mentioned earlier?
>
> One bus that I saw had 48 seats and was half full.
> Another had 36 seats and was 2/3 full.
>
> If all 8 buses held 48 seats and were totally full
> its 384 to Westfield from that part of McNair. So
> obviously we looking at less than that number.
>
> Still waiting to find out how many of them are
> free lunch. SLPP any luck on that?
so the rest are driving their nice cars to Westfield, right?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket
>
> Following up on our bus counting from McNair south
> of the Toll Road exchange of a few days ago.
>
> Only saw two buses this morning. Not doubting
> your veracity, just want to make sure we have the
> right count. Did you have a source for the 8 buses
> mentioned earlier?
>
> One bus that I saw had 48 seats and was half full.
> Another had 36 seats and was 2/3 full.
>
> If all 8 buses held 48 seats and were totally full
> its 384 to Westfield from that part of McNair. So
> obviously we looking at less than that number.
>
> Still waiting to find out how many of them are
> free lunch. SLPP any luck on that?
so the rest are driving their nice cars to Westfield, right?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:55PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> since developers are giving land and money for
> schools, I think they know something about the
> elementary school. if nothing else they are the
> most familiar with whatever deal they cut with the
> county/school board.
Typically, the school division tells the developer it wants a school site from the land the developer is rezoning. There may be some negotiation over the precise location of the school parcel within the rezoning but once there's an agreement, the developer deeds the land to the County simultaneously with the plat for the main roads, like Coopermine, being approved and recorded. After that it's up to the School division to do the rest of the construction on their schedule.
The money gets paid into the County with each building permit in the residential project. When and how the School division uses the money is unknown to the developer.
> Oh yeah, and don't they help
> dream up some of those silly numbers the county
> uses to calculate future enrollments (I could be
> wrong) at impacted schools.
No. The School division establishes those ratios and the resulting impact projections which have been consistently higher than the actual numbers county wide over the last ten years.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 12:09AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> since developers are giving land and money for
> schools, I think they know something about the
> elementary school. if nothing else they are the
> most familiar with whatever deal they cut with the
> county/school board.
Typically, the school division tells the developer it wants a school site from the land the developer is rezoning. There may be some negotiation over the precise location of the school parcel within the rezoning but once there's an agreement, the developer deeds the land to the County simultaneously with the plat for the main roads, like Coopermine, being approved and recorded. After that it's up to the School division to do the rest of the construction on their schedule.
The money gets paid into the County with each building permit in the residential project. When and how the School division uses the money is unknown to the developer.
> Oh yeah, and don't they help
> dream up some of those silly numbers the county
> uses to calculate future enrollments (I could be
> wrong) at impacted schools.
No. The School division establishes those ratios and the resulting impact projections which have been consistently higher than the actual numbers county wide over the last ten years.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 12:09AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 01, 2007 11:57PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so the rest are driving their nice cars to
> Westfield, right?
That's one explanation that could be tested by finding out where the student parking permit holders at Westfield live.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> so the rest are driving their nice cars to
> Westfield, right?
That's one explanation that could be tested by finding out where the student parking permit holders at Westfield live.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 12:12AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Floris has to go somewhere.
>
> To Westfield.
If current Westfield students are grandfathered, what's wrong with sending Floris to Chantilly.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 12:13AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Floris has to go somewhere.
>
> To Westfield.
If current Westfield students are grandfathered, what's wrong with sending Floris to Chantilly.
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 12:13AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:01AM
Thomas, don't you get it? The folks you are debating would love to throw McNair into South Lakes. Did you ever stop to think that everyone posting on this site who is anti-SL (and doesn't live in the SL community) can't wait to get rid of McNair? Does that not tell you something?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:02AM
>>>My experience is that he listens very politely and then ignores you.<<<
Isn't that what they've all been trained to do? They are usually very nice when they tell you whatever you want is impossible or very nice and then ignore what you've said. The point, is they're very nice. Just like the phone lady.
Isn't that what they've all been trained to do? They are usually very nice when they tell you whatever you want is impossible or very nice and then ignore what you've said. The point, is they're very nice. Just like the phone lady.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:04AM
hmmm7,
What do you mean someone without an agenda? Someone running who has no thoughts about what to do for our students? I seriously doubt that anyone would run without an agenda. What would be the point?
What do you mean someone without an agenda? Someone running who has no thoughts about what to do for our students? I seriously doubt that anyone would run without an agenda. What would be the point?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:11AM
Thomas, it's perfectly fine in FCPS to be racist if one is racist against whites and has racial preferences for blacks. I am surprised that you were not aware of this. It is VERY apparent on the school board, and throughout staff. Affirmative action for Blacks, and whites can sit down and shut up. No teacher or coach will EVER be disciplined for prejudice against whites. It's very PC in FCPS.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:19AM
>>>Is South Lakes the only school that is currently under capacity that the school board feels the need to "fix?"<<<
Yes. There are at least two other high schools more under used than South Lakes, but there are no plans to redistrict at either Falls Church (692 empty seats) or Mount Vernon (792 empty seats) or Hayfield (543 empty seats). West Potomac has 219 empty seats.
As anyone heard that the CIP shows money for a new high school in the Dulles area? Apparently CIP shows money allocated for it, $90 million, so far. So why is South Lakes being redistricted now? Because Stu wants it? So it would appear.
One wonders why school board members don't care about redistricting Falls Church or Mount Vernon or Hayfield? Why is it that only Stu's high school must be redistricted, right this minute?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 02:23AM by Neen.
Yes. There are at least two other high schools more under used than South Lakes, but there are no plans to redistrict at either Falls Church (692 empty seats) or Mount Vernon (792 empty seats) or Hayfield (543 empty seats). West Potomac has 219 empty seats.
As anyone heard that the CIP shows money for a new high school in the Dulles area? Apparently CIP shows money allocated for it, $90 million, so far. So why is South Lakes being redistricted now? Because Stu wants it? So it would appear.
One wonders why school board members don't care about redistricting Falls Church or Mount Vernon or Hayfield? Why is it that only Stu's high school must be redistricted, right this minute?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 02:23AM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:37AM
Spanky said
>>>My children's education is far more important than "the better good" of a public school, particularly SL.<<<
I think that's exactly what many parents in this thread are saying. They won't permit their children to go to South Lakes. Period. Our school board should have known that would happen when they went down this road and prepared for it. Simply forcing people into South Lakes won't work. It simply won't. We'll be back here in 3 years when SL is still 500 under enrolled and still hasn't brought up the scores of the most vulnerable students.
Are people aware that only 75% of Blacks who enroll in 9th grade in FCPS actually graduate? Worse, only 50% of Hispanics graduate. While 92% of Asians graduate and 88% of whites. (Source is MSAOC report June 2007.) FCPS hides these numbers by only counting dropouts as students who drop out in their senior year, not all four years of high school. Putting more whites and Asians into south Lakes will help to mask the problems of low graduation rates for Blacks and Hispanics, but won't do a thing to help those kids who aren't graduating.
>>>My children's education is far more important than "the better good" of a public school, particularly SL.<<<
I think that's exactly what many parents in this thread are saying. They won't permit their children to go to South Lakes. Period. Our school board should have known that would happen when they went down this road and prepared for it. Simply forcing people into South Lakes won't work. It simply won't. We'll be back here in 3 years when SL is still 500 under enrolled and still hasn't brought up the scores of the most vulnerable students.
Are people aware that only 75% of Blacks who enroll in 9th grade in FCPS actually graduate? Worse, only 50% of Hispanics graduate. While 92% of Asians graduate and 88% of whites. (Source is MSAOC report June 2007.) FCPS hides these numbers by only counting dropouts as students who drop out in their senior year, not all four years of high school. Putting more whites and Asians into south Lakes will help to mask the problems of low graduation rates for Blacks and Hispanics, but won't do a thing to help those kids who aren't graduating.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:45AM
>>>Stu G allowed Vienna GT kids to be shipped to Jackson.<<<
There seems to be a pattern here, Stu Gibson flat out doesn't care what his constituents want AND he has no problem wasting taxpayer money. Some 'representative' he is!
There seems to be a pattern here, Stu Gibson flat out doesn't care what his constituents want AND he has no problem wasting taxpayer money. Some 'representative' he is!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:52AM
It seems that the dissatisfied democrats will vote for Marie while the unhappy republicans, and those who are sick of hearing about transit and want ROADS, will vote for Spike Williams. That will allow Kathy to sneak through once again, with her goals of more 'affordable housing' for Reston. I was shocked that even as late as today's Post, Kathy is still has more low income housing as her number one goal. It sure makes me glad that I don't like in Reston. I do feel for families who have to live there. It's obvious that Kathy and Connelly don't care a wit about you.
Go Spike!
Go Spike!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 03:10AM
This from StopRD:
>>> 21,000 flyers have been hand-delivered since October 27th<<< WOW!!! People REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, care about this issue!
That should cut into Stu and Kathy's votes on Tuesday.
>>> 21,000 flyers have been hand-delivered since October 27th<<< WOW!!! People REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, care about this issue!
That should cut into Stu and Kathy's votes on Tuesday.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Sick n tired
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:30AM
Spanky,
Which island do you live on? I dont know a single kid in my neighborhood who is not going to SLHS or whose family is moving to avoid that. Run away but quit shouting *fire`
Which island do you live on? I dont know a single kid in my neighborhood who is not going to SLHS or whose family is moving to avoid that. Run away but quit shouting *fire`
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 06:54AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, don't you get it? The folks you are
> debating would love to throw McNair into South
> Lakes. Did you ever stop to think that everyone
> posting on this site who is anti-SL (and doesn't
> live in the SL community) can't wait to get rid of
> McNair? Does that not tell you something?
What does it tell you?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, don't you get it? The folks you are
> debating would love to throw McNair into South
> Lakes. Did you ever stop to think that everyone
> posting on this site who is anti-SL (and doesn't
> live in the SL community) can't wait to get rid of
> McNair? Does that not tell you something?
What does it tell you?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 02, 2007 08:14AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > > Floris has to go somewhere.
> >
> > To Westfield.
>
> If current Westfield students are grandfathered,
> what's wrong with sending Floris to Chantilly.
There's no reason and there's no room. Why don't we just keep Chantilly and Westfield and Herndon and Oakton as is? We are all pretty happy letting the Reston folks figure out their own fix within their own boundaries and leaving the rest of us out. It really is pretty annoying watching you all figure out the ideal scenario at the sake of all of the other West County Schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > > Floris has to go somewhere.
> >
> > To Westfield.
>
> If current Westfield students are grandfathered,
> what's wrong with sending Floris to Chantilly.
There's no reason and there's no room. Why don't we just keep Chantilly and Westfield and Herndon and Oakton as is? We are all pretty happy letting the Reston folks figure out their own fix within their own boundaries and leaving the rest of us out. It really is pretty annoying watching you all figure out the ideal scenario at the sake of all of the other West County Schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 08:41AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > > Floris has to go somewhere.
> > >
> > > To Westfield.
> >
> > If current Westfield students are
> grandfathered,
> > what's wrong with sending Floris to Chantilly.
>
>
>
> There's no reason and there's no room. Why don't
> we just keep Chantilly and Westfield and Herndon
> and Oakton as is? We are all pretty happy letting
> the Reston folks figure out their own fix within
> their own boundaries and leaving the rest of us
> out. It really is pretty annoying watching you
> all figure out the ideal scenario at the sake of
> all of the other West County Schools.
Just as it is annoying to watch you all talk about magnets for South Lakes and other ideal scenarios for you that throw South Lakes under the bus. Works both ways.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > > Floris has to go somewhere.
> > >
> > > To Westfield.
> >
> > If current Westfield students are
> grandfathered,
> > what's wrong with sending Floris to Chantilly.
>
>
>
> There's no reason and there's no room. Why don't
> we just keep Chantilly and Westfield and Herndon
> and Oakton as is? We are all pretty happy letting
> the Reston folks figure out their own fix within
> their own boundaries and leaving the rest of us
> out. It really is pretty annoying watching you
> all figure out the ideal scenario at the sake of
> all of the other West County Schools.
Just as it is annoying to watch you all talk about magnets for South Lakes and other ideal scenarios for you that throw South Lakes under the bus. Works both ways.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:06AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm7,
> What do you mean someone without an agenda?
> Someone running who has no thoughts about what to
> do for our students? I seriously doubt that
> anyone would run without an agenda. What would be
> the point?
Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that I don't want someone in there who already has their mind made up that x school is moving to South Lakes while y school is moving to Oakton and z school is moving.....etc. I want someone who will actually listen to what people have to say at the town meetings.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm7,
> What do you mean someone without an agenda?
> Someone running who has no thoughts about what to
> do for our students? I seriously doubt that
> anyone would run without an agenda. What would be
> the point?
Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that I don't want someone in there who already has their mind made up that x school is moving to South Lakes while y school is moving to Oakton and z school is moving.....etc. I want someone who will actually listen to what people have to say at the town meetings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:09AM
SLPP,
Right, and I get my turn to say it.
And even better from you and so, so ironic is that you suggest that sending McNair to South Lakes or Herndon is throwing them under the bus. Ha-Ha!
I can see and understand why SL parents and the Reston community are excited and invigorated by a change they see on the horizon.
Most of us are not. Change has been the status quo.
So yes, McNair might be thrown under the bus. Other schools will be thrown under the bus by other schools, other neighborhoods by other neighborhoods, half of a neighborhood by the other half. This will happen in your community too. I know I sound like a squeaky wheel, but I don't think you get it. If I can understand your elated spirits, then you can understand our community's bitterness.
It has happen far too many times in our area. No one in our area forgets the turmoil, the lost friends, the lost neighbors. There are still families who don't talk to each other. Still neighborhoods that send students to both Oakton and Westfield. More studies are on the horizon. There really is no way of getting out of a boundary study for a new school. So, we have more change to NOT look forward to in a year. Most of us would prefer to sit this one out. It is not complicated or ill-hatred towards South Lakes. I don't understand why you don't get that.
Right, and I get my turn to say it.
And even better from you and so, so ironic is that you suggest that sending McNair to South Lakes or Herndon is throwing them under the bus. Ha-Ha!
I can see and understand why SL parents and the Reston community are excited and invigorated by a change they see on the horizon.
Most of us are not. Change has been the status quo.
So yes, McNair might be thrown under the bus. Other schools will be thrown under the bus by other schools, other neighborhoods by other neighborhoods, half of a neighborhood by the other half. This will happen in your community too. I know I sound like a squeaky wheel, but I don't think you get it. If I can understand your elated spirits, then you can understand our community's bitterness.
It has happen far too many times in our area. No one in our area forgets the turmoil, the lost friends, the lost neighbors. There are still families who don't talk to each other. Still neighborhoods that send students to both Oakton and Westfield. More studies are on the horizon. There really is no way of getting out of a boundary study for a new school. So, we have more change to NOT look forward to in a year. Most of us would prefer to sit this one out. It is not complicated or ill-hatred towards South Lakes. I don't understand why you don't get that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:09AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spanky said
> >>>My children's education is far more important
> than "the better good" of a public school,
> particularly SL.<<<
>
> I think that's exactly what many parents in this
> thread are saying. They won't permit their
> children to go to South Lakes. Period. Our school
> board should have known that would happen when
> they went down this road and prepared for it.
> Simply forcing people into South Lakes won't work.
> It simply won't. We'll be back here in 3 years
> when SL is still 500 under enrolled and still
> hasn't brought up the scores of the most
> vulnerable students.
>
> Are people aware that only 75% of Blacks who
> enroll in 9th grade in FCPS actually graduate?
> Worse, only 50% of Hispanics graduate. While 92%
> of Asians graduate and 88% of whites. (Source is
> MSAOC report June 2007.) FCPS hides these numbers
> by only counting dropouts as students who drop out
> in their senior year, not all four years of high
> school. Putting more whites and Asians into south
> Lakes will help to mask the problems of low
> graduation rates for Blacks and Hispanics, but
> won't do a thing to help those kids who aren't
> graduating.
I anticipate enormous numbers showing up at these town meetings. I wonder if the current school board actually thought they could sneak this thing through without quite the uproar that it has caused. I believe it is Herndon that is bringing people to Chantilly by the busload. Unfortunately, there is no such unified effort at Oakton, but some people are working to fix that. At any rate, I think it is going to be so much bigger than Stuart Gibson could ever have imagined.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spanky said
> >>>My children's education is far more important
> than "the better good" of a public school,
> particularly SL.<<<
>
> I think that's exactly what many parents in this
> thread are saying. They won't permit their
> children to go to South Lakes. Period. Our school
> board should have known that would happen when
> they went down this road and prepared for it.
> Simply forcing people into South Lakes won't work.
> It simply won't. We'll be back here in 3 years
> when SL is still 500 under enrolled and still
> hasn't brought up the scores of the most
> vulnerable students.
>
> Are people aware that only 75% of Blacks who
> enroll in 9th grade in FCPS actually graduate?
> Worse, only 50% of Hispanics graduate. While 92%
> of Asians graduate and 88% of whites. (Source is
> MSAOC report June 2007.) FCPS hides these numbers
> by only counting dropouts as students who drop out
> in their senior year, not all four years of high
> school. Putting more whites and Asians into south
> Lakes will help to mask the problems of low
> graduation rates for Blacks and Hispanics, but
> won't do a thing to help those kids who aren't
> graduating.
I anticipate enormous numbers showing up at these town meetings. I wonder if the current school board actually thought they could sneak this thing through without quite the uproar that it has caused. I believe it is Herndon that is bringing people to Chantilly by the busload. Unfortunately, there is no such unified effort at Oakton, but some people are working to fix that. At any rate, I think it is going to be so much bigger than Stuart Gibson could ever have imagined.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:11AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This from StopRD:
>
> >>> 21,000 flyers have been hand-delivered since
> October 27th<<< WOW!!! People REALLY, REALLY,
> REALLY, care about this issue!
> That should cut into Stu and Kathy's votes on
> Tuesday.
With more flyers to come! I think this is going to be a big weekend for flyer distribution.
-------------------------------------------------------
> This from StopRD:
>
> >>> 21,000 flyers have been hand-delivered since
> October 27th<<< WOW!!! People REALLY, REALLY,
> REALLY, care about this issue!
> That should cut into Stu and Kathy's votes on
> Tuesday.
With more flyers to come! I think this is going to be a big weekend for flyer distribution.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:14AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Cricket Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > > Floris has to go somewhere.
> > > >
> > > > To Westfield.
> > >
> > > If current Westfield students are
> > grandfathered,
> > > what's wrong with sending Floris to
> Chantilly.
> >
> >
> >
> > There's no reason and there's no room. Why
> don't
> > we just keep Chantilly and Westfield and
> Herndon
> > and Oakton as is? We are all pretty happy
> letting
> > the Reston folks figure out their own fix
> within
> > their own boundaries and leaving the rest of us
> > out. It really is pretty annoying watching you
> > all figure out the ideal scenario at the sake
> of
> > all of the other West County Schools.
>
>
> Just as it is annoying to watch you all talk about
> magnets for South Lakes and other ideal scenarios
> for you that throw South Lakes under the bus.
> Works both ways.
How is putting a great magnet school program into South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Cricket Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > > Floris has to go somewhere.
> > > >
> > > > To Westfield.
> > >
> > > If current Westfield students are
> > grandfathered,
> > > what's wrong with sending Floris to
> Chantilly.
> >
> >
> >
> > There's no reason and there's no room. Why
> don't
> > we just keep Chantilly and Westfield and
> Herndon
> > and Oakton as is? We are all pretty happy
> letting
> > the Reston folks figure out their own fix
> within
> > their own boundaries and leaving the rest of us
> > out. It really is pretty annoying watching you
> > all figure out the ideal scenario at the sake
> of
> > all of the other West County Schools.
>
>
> Just as it is annoying to watch you all talk about
> magnets for South Lakes and other ideal scenarios
> for you that throw South Lakes under the bus.
> Works both ways.
How is putting a great magnet school program into South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:24AM
Cricket--I do get what you are saying. I feel for you that you have to go through this again and again. I don't feel at all elated that I have to worry about this, on top of the everyday worries about my kids, job, etc. That is more than enough. I don't like this at all.
But, you let all your frustrations at the school board out on South Lakes, like this is somehow our fault, like we alone created this situation. You all continually trash our school to get people riled up for your own political and PR purposes. You gather other schools against South Lakes, because that meets your politicaly purpose. Why do you care about Herndon, who actually has some Reston schools? You do only inasmuch as they are a political ally. You'd be happy to throw them under the bus if it meets your goals later. You are a phony to pretend you care about anyone but yourself.
We are frustrated at the school board too, but we are also mad that this is how you treat us. We all just want good schools for our kids. We've been attempting to find solutions that will work, that's all.
And I don't see any conflict with liking the diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet not wanting another underperforming school. I don't believe that underprivileged population should be overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not black and white enough for you, but it is possible to have both viewpoints.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 09:32AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
But, you let all your frustrations at the school board out on South Lakes, like this is somehow our fault, like we alone created this situation. You all continually trash our school to get people riled up for your own political and PR purposes. You gather other schools against South Lakes, because that meets your politicaly purpose. Why do you care about Herndon, who actually has some Reston schools? You do only inasmuch as they are a political ally. You'd be happy to throw them under the bus if it meets your goals later. You are a phony to pretend you care about anyone but yourself.
We are frustrated at the school board too, but we are also mad that this is how you treat us. We all just want good schools for our kids. We've been attempting to find solutions that will work, that's all.
And I don't see any conflict with liking the diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet not wanting another underperforming school. I don't believe that underprivileged population should be overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not black and white enough for you, but it is possible to have both viewpoints.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 09:32AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:30AM
All of you StopRD folks: Please stop saying that SL needs to fix its own problems without affecting any of you. None of our problems were created by us, but rather by this and past school boards. Get it!!!!! You have benefited from some of the fixes.
Herndon benefited! Westfield benefited! Oakton benefited!
We had no input when North Point was pulled and sent to Herndon.
We had no input when Sycamore Lakes was pulled and sent to Westfield.
We were ignored in debate over Crossfield.
We had no input on the hiring of the prior horrible principal.
We had no input on IB being brought to SL.
We have had more change than you Cricket. Quit trying to act so put upon. Sorry, I'm not feeling the sympathy this morning.
Despite it all, South Lakes is a good school and we have taken a lot of actions the past two years that are resulting in trends in a very positive direction. You all don't know what it means to be invested in a school. I promise you. We do. And we intend to see additional improvements.
I'm not even going to bring the R word into the discussion, but I'm feeling it this morning on this thread.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 09:35AM by SLVerity.
Herndon benefited! Westfield benefited! Oakton benefited!
We had no input when North Point was pulled and sent to Herndon.
We had no input when Sycamore Lakes was pulled and sent to Westfield.
We were ignored in debate over Crossfield.
We had no input on the hiring of the prior horrible principal.
We had no input on IB being brought to SL.
We have had more change than you Cricket. Quit trying to act so put upon. Sorry, I'm not feeling the sympathy this morning.
Despite it all, South Lakes is a good school and we have taken a lot of actions the past two years that are resulting in trends in a very positive direction. You all don't know what it means to be invested in a school. I promise you. We do. And we intend to see additional improvements.
I'm not even going to bring the R word into the discussion, but I'm feeling it this morning on this thread.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 09:35AM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:34AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
>
> How is putting a great magnet school program into
> South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
Because its better for the community if we are pulling students from a permanent cohesive boundary. They and their families will be more invested in the school. Period. Get it?
>
> How is putting a great magnet school program into
> South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
Because its better for the community if we are pulling students from a permanent cohesive boundary. They and their families will be more invested in the school. Period. Get it?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:39AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spanky said
> >>>My children's education is far more important
> than "the better good" of a public school,
> particularly SL.<<<
>
> I think that's exactly what many parents in this
> thread are saying. They won't permit their
> children to go to South Lakes. Period.
Neen, you've slipped and finally revealed your true colors. You don't want your children to go to SL even if they offer every program you want, right? It does not matter, obviously. Your POV is set and intransigent, and I think you just let us all know why.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spanky said
> >>>My children's education is far more important
> than "the better good" of a public school,
> particularly SL.<<<
>
> I think that's exactly what many parents in this
> thread are saying. They won't permit their
> children to go to South Lakes. Period.
Neen, you've slipped and finally revealed your true colors. You don't want your children to go to SL even if they offer every program you want, right? It does not matter, obviously. Your POV is set and intransigent, and I think you just let us all know why.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:48AM
We representing SL are constantly asked not to bring emotion into the argument by posters on this thread, but what I see displayed here in the wee hours of the morning is pure emotion:
We are sick of change.
We are tired of the process.
Leave us alone.
Leave us out of any fixes.
We don't want to move.
Yada, yada, yada.
If you are all as can do as you say you are, and if you all believe in hard work and self-driven destiny like you say you do, then stop acting like victims. Do you really think your children would not do well at SL? Are they that fragile? Are they so unadaptable that they wouldn't make the best of the situation wherever they are? Would they not add many talents and perspectives to the SL community? Would they not bring their own values and study habits and work ethics? Would they not in time come to love their school?
Listen to yourselves.
I prefer this thread when the discussion is civil.
Today I am just angry.
We are sick of change.
We are tired of the process.
Leave us alone.
Leave us out of any fixes.
We don't want to move.
Yada, yada, yada.
If you are all as can do as you say you are, and if you all believe in hard work and self-driven destiny like you say you do, then stop acting like victims. Do you really think your children would not do well at SL? Are they that fragile? Are they so unadaptable that they wouldn't make the best of the situation wherever they are? Would they not add many talents and perspectives to the SL community? Would they not bring their own values and study habits and work ethics? Would they not in time come to love their school?
Listen to yourselves.
I prefer this thread when the discussion is civil.
Today I am just angry.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:56AM
SLVerity - are you done?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:04AM
I'd be angry too if my children went to SL. No one , except for maybe you and the other two SL parents on here wants their children going to SL. Are you three of the twenty or so that will actually get an IB diploma?
If IB is so great, SL would be turning students away. Not the case now is it?
If IB is so great, SL would be turning students away. Not the case now is it?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:05AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > I have not see a Fox Mill poll to date.
>
> don't think there is one. Many of the people at
> Fox Mill are convinced that everything has already
> been settled and they are going to SLHS. So maybe
> if all are fine with that, there need be no poll.
Most Fox Mill parents are NOT fine with going to SLHS. We aren't dense, we get the overcrowded/underenrolled thing, and true SL is closer, but that doesn't mean we're all happy to be moved. Most of us would much rather stay with Oakton, especially the more we learn about IB. For those of us with students already at Oakton (but not old enough to be automatically allowed to stay), this is a very important issue. As many people have already stated, no one likes being jerked around. I think you will see many Fox Mill parents at the boundary meetings.
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > I have not see a Fox Mill poll to date.
>
> don't think there is one. Many of the people at
> Fox Mill are convinced that everything has already
> been settled and they are going to SLHS. So maybe
> if all are fine with that, there need be no poll.
Most Fox Mill parents are NOT fine with going to SLHS. We aren't dense, we get the overcrowded/underenrolled thing, and true SL is closer, but that doesn't mean we're all happy to be moved. Most of us would much rather stay with Oakton, especially the more we learn about IB. For those of us with students already at Oakton (but not old enough to be automatically allowed to stay), this is a very important issue. As many people have already stated, no one likes being jerked around. I think you will see many Fox Mill parents at the boundary meetings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:07AM
spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd be angry too if my children went to SL. No
> one , except for maybe you and the other two SL
> parents on here wants their children going to SL.
> Are you three of the twenty or so that will
> actually get an IB diploma?
>
> If IB is so great, SL would be turning students
> away. Not the case now is it?
Actually, there were at least 59 Diploma candidates last year, and around 80 are in line for this year. At least get the facts straight before you speak. If you had been reading this thread you would know that I was happy with South Lakes. My kids, who both did the IB diploma, have graduated and they attend UVa, and all without an expensive private school tuition.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 10:09AM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd be angry too if my children went to SL. No
> one , except for maybe you and the other two SL
> parents on here wants their children going to SL.
> Are you three of the twenty or so that will
> actually get an IB diploma?
>
> If IB is so great, SL would be turning students
> away. Not the case now is it?
Actually, there were at least 59 Diploma candidates last year, and around 80 are in line for this year. At least get the facts straight before you speak. If you had been reading this thread you would know that I was happy with South Lakes. My kids, who both did the IB diploma, have graduated and they attend UVa, and all without an expensive private school tuition.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 10:09AM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:08AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity - are you done?
Actually, I'm like the energizer bunny. I can keep going and going.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity - are you done?
Actually, I'm like the energizer bunny. I can keep going and going.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:14AM
I'm thinking more like you're the Wack-a-Mole
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:14AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sorry, but IB is not 'basically the same as AP".
>
> > It simply isn't. If it were, the top private
> and
> > public schools would have IB. They don't.
>
> Can you explain George Mason in Falls Church and
> Robinson in Fairfax, both considered top schools
> and both having IB. Yes I know Robinson has AP
> too, but Mason is strictly IB. How about Trinity
> Episcopal in Richmond, a private prep school.
>
> I've stated this before and have been ignored.
> Are these facts not convenient to your argument?
From what I've learned, IB has its good points. However, it is very writing intensive and doesn't offer as much advanced math. Nothing wrong with learning to write and think critically, but if students are really looking for advanced math, AP schools usually have more to offer.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sorry, but IB is not 'basically the same as AP".
>
> > It simply isn't. If it were, the top private
> and
> > public schools would have IB. They don't.
>
> Can you explain George Mason in Falls Church and
> Robinson in Fairfax, both considered top schools
> and both having IB. Yes I know Robinson has AP
> too, but Mason is strictly IB. How about Trinity
> Episcopal in Richmond, a private prep school.
>
> I've stated this before and have been ignored.
> Are these facts not convenient to your argument?
From what I've learned, IB has its good points. However, it is very writing intensive and doesn't offer as much advanced math. Nothing wrong with learning to write and think critically, but if students are really looking for advanced math, AP schools usually have more to offer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:16AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm thinking more like you're the Wack-a-Mole
Whatever it takes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm thinking more like you're the Wack-a-Mole
Whatever it takes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:17AM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sorry, but IB is not 'basically the same as
> AP".
> >
> > > It simply isn't. If it were, the top private
> > and
> > > public schools would have IB. They don't.
> >
> > Can you explain George Mason in Falls Church
> and
> > Robinson in Fairfax, both considered top
> schools
> > and both having IB. Yes I know Robinson has AP
> > too, but Mason is strictly IB. How about
> Trinity
> > Episcopal in Richmond, a private prep school.
> >
> > I've stated this before and have been ignored.
> > Are these facts not convenient to your
> argument?
>
>
> From what I've learned, IB has its good points.
> However, it is very writing intensive and doesn't
> offer as much advanced math. Nothing wrong with
> learning to write and think critically, but if
> students are really looking for advanced math, AP
> schools usually have more to offer.
Then I think the advanced math would be offered at SL to accomodate incoming students, if they are indeed capable and in line to take higher math than is offered through IB. The beauty of the writing. My kids whip out 12 page papers in college like it's nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 10:19AM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sorry, but IB is not 'basically the same as
> AP".
> >
> > > It simply isn't. If it were, the top private
> > and
> > > public schools would have IB. They don't.
> >
> > Can you explain George Mason in Falls Church
> and
> > Robinson in Fairfax, both considered top
> schools
> > and both having IB. Yes I know Robinson has AP
> > too, but Mason is strictly IB. How about
> Trinity
> > Episcopal in Richmond, a private prep school.
> >
> > I've stated this before and have been ignored.
> > Are these facts not convenient to your
> argument?
>
>
> From what I've learned, IB has its good points.
> However, it is very writing intensive and doesn't
> offer as much advanced math. Nothing wrong with
> learning to write and think critically, but if
> students are really looking for advanced math, AP
> schools usually have more to offer.
Then I think the advanced math would be offered at SL to accomodate incoming students, if they are indeed capable and in line to take higher math than is offered through IB. The beauty of the writing. My kids whip out 12 page papers in college like it's nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 10:19AM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:23AM
SL Verde,
Oh I did check the FCPS web site. 21 IB diplomas awarded in 05-06. WOW! 21 out of roughly 1400 students. That's an overwhelming success rate. A success rate I didn't want my children being part of. So what is the problem - the students or the teachers?
Glad your children are doing well at UVA.
Oh I did check the FCPS web site. 21 IB diplomas awarded in 05-06. WOW! 21 out of roughly 1400 students. That's an overwhelming success rate. A success rate I didn't want my children being part of. So what is the problem - the students or the teachers?
Glad your children are doing well at UVA.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:35AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket--I do get what you are saying. I feel for
> you that you have to go through this again and
> again. I don't feel at all elated that I have to
> worry about this, on top of the everyday worries
> about my kids, job, etc. That is more than
> enough. I don't like this at all.
>
> But, you let all your frustrations at the school
> board out on South Lakes, like this is somehow our
> fault, like we alone created this situation. You
> all continually trash our school to get people
> riled up for your own political and PR purposes.
> You gather other schools against South Lakes,
> because that meets your politicaly purpose. Why
> do you care about Herndon, who actually has some
> Reston schools? You do only inasmuch as they are
> a political ally. You'd be happy to throw them
> under the bus if it meets your goals later. You
> are a phony to pretend you care about anyone but
> yourself.
>
> We are frustrated at the school board too, but we
> are also mad that this is how you treat us. We
> all just want good schools for our kids. We've
> been attempting to find solutions that will work,
> that's all.
>
> And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet not
> wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> believe that underprivileged population should be
> overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> black and white enough for you, but it is possible
> to have both viewpoints.
Really...I have never once said anything bad about SL. And you are right, I only give a hoot about my family and my community. Never once been phony about that. And when WE (those of us outside SL) attempt to find solutions that will work, all WE ever get get back from you is one viewpoint: "whoa is SL" "we are just trying to make happy-happy" "None of this is our fault" "Stop treating us so bad" "your self-centered" "bunch of trash-talking-for-political-gain-racists-who-hate-SL-and-take-out-all-our-anger-on-SL-and-whine, whine, whine." Hold the mirror up. Why do care so much about McNair? Why do you care so much about Herndon? Oh that's right, all you care about is SL. You are no different than we.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket--I do get what you are saying. I feel for
> you that you have to go through this again and
> again. I don't feel at all elated that I have to
> worry about this, on top of the everyday worries
> about my kids, job, etc. That is more than
> enough. I don't like this at all.
>
> But, you let all your frustrations at the school
> board out on South Lakes, like this is somehow our
> fault, like we alone created this situation. You
> all continually trash our school to get people
> riled up for your own political and PR purposes.
> You gather other schools against South Lakes,
> because that meets your politicaly purpose. Why
> do you care about Herndon, who actually has some
> Reston schools? You do only inasmuch as they are
> a political ally. You'd be happy to throw them
> under the bus if it meets your goals later. You
> are a phony to pretend you care about anyone but
> yourself.
>
> We are frustrated at the school board too, but we
> are also mad that this is how you treat us. We
> all just want good schools for our kids. We've
> been attempting to find solutions that will work,
> that's all.
>
> And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet not
> wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> believe that underprivileged population should be
> overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> black and white enough for you, but it is possible
> to have both viewpoints.
Really...I have never once said anything bad about SL. And you are right, I only give a hoot about my family and my community. Never once been phony about that. And when WE (those of us outside SL) attempt to find solutions that will work, all WE ever get get back from you is one viewpoint: "whoa is SL" "we are just trying to make happy-happy" "None of this is our fault" "Stop treating us so bad" "your self-centered" "bunch of trash-talking-for-political-gain-racists-who-hate-SL-and-take-out-all-our-anger-on-SL-and-whine, whine, whine." Hold the mirror up. Why do care so much about McNair? Why do you care so much about Herndon? Oh that's right, all you care about is SL. You are no different than we.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:48AM
spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verde,
> Oh I did check the FCPS web site. 21 IB diplomas
> awarded in 05-06. WOW! 21 out of roughly 1400
> students. That's an overwhelming success rate. A
> success rate I didn't want my children being part
> of. So what is the problem - the students or the
> teachers?
>
> Glad your children are doing well at UVA.
Last year was 06/07 Spanky, which coincides with a new principal and new attitude in the school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verde,
> Oh I did check the FCPS web site. 21 IB diplomas
> awarded in 05-06. WOW! 21 out of roughly 1400
> students. That's an overwhelming success rate. A
> success rate I didn't want my children being part
> of. So what is the problem - the students or the
> teachers?
>
> Glad your children are doing well at UVA.
Last year was 06/07 Spanky, which coincides with a new principal and new attitude in the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:51AM
And while the IB students churn out 12 page plagiarized critical thinking papers in college, high school seniors rank dead last among the developed countries of the world in math and science.
How sweet is that?
How sweet is that?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 02, 2007 11:08AM
Calling BS on the new principal in 06-07. He's been there longer than that, and you know it. New lower standards, perhaps? It's a miracle that we've gone from 20 to 80 IB diplomas!!! See how much better we are??
I stopped by SL the other day unannounced just to see how my tax dollars are hard at work. What's up with the two seating areas for the cafeteria? Is that their idea of promoting diversity? It was mid morning and there was a group of about 40 unruly students sitting in one of the seating areas watching a video tape of a football game. Too bad Prep doesn't have classes like that!
Honestly, who do these SL parents think they're fooling? Not many (I hope).
I stopped by SL the other day unannounced just to see how my tax dollars are hard at work. What's up with the two seating areas for the cafeteria? Is that their idea of promoting diversity? It was mid morning and there was a group of about 40 unruly students sitting in one of the seating areas watching a video tape of a football game. Too bad Prep doesn't have classes like that!
Honestly, who do these SL parents think they're fooling? Not many (I hope).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
wrong
()
Date: November 02, 2007 11:11AM
where the hell did that come from? no one is plagerizing. i currently have not started a 10 page paper that is due on monday at my top 30 school and im not worried about it at all. ill let you know when i get my a.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 02, 2007 11:25AM
>
> And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet not
> wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> believe that underprivileged population should be
> overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> black and white enough for you, but it is possible
> to have both viewpoints.
Also,
You think parents from McNair are not qualified to post to this board? You have never recognized their veiwpoint. Or the viewpoint of the Hispanic population at Herndon or Chantilly? Or the underpriviledged communities at all the other high schools. You act as if they are not engaged that this board is a fortress.
You are right. There are 2 viewpoints. You have chosen one.
> And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet not
> wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> believe that underprivileged population should be
> overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> black and white enough for you, but it is possible
> to have both viewpoints.
Also,
You think parents from McNair are not qualified to post to this board? You have never recognized their veiwpoint. Or the viewpoint of the Hispanic population at Herndon or Chantilly? Or the underpriviledged communities at all the other high schools. You act as if they are not engaged that this board is a fortress.
You are right. There are 2 viewpoints. You have chosen one.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 02, 2007 11:28AM
OK then. Maybe you should start plagerizing (sic) so you could at least spell correctly at your top 30 school. Please tell us you are an IB diploma recipient from SLHS. BWAHAHAHAHA!
Anyway, you schmucks have a nice weekend and keep posting on the board among the 3 of you how great SL is. Sooner or later one of you will actually believe it.
Anyway, you schmucks have a nice weekend and keep posting on the board among the 3 of you how great SL is. Sooner or later one of you will actually believe it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 02, 2007 11:33AM
Understand that the level of diversity at South Lakes has been achieved by the disappering white population.
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
wrong
()
Date: November 02, 2007 11:42AM
spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK then. Maybe you should start plagerizing (sic)
> so you could at least spell correctly at your top
> 30 school. Please tell us you are an IB diploma
> recipient from SLHS. BWAHAHAHAHA!
>
> Anyway, you schmucks have a nice weekend and keep
> posting on the board among the 3 of you how great
> SL is. Sooner or later one of you will actually
> believe it.
a. how mature of you
b. you still make no sense
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK then. Maybe you should start plagerizing (sic)
> so you could at least spell correctly at your top
> 30 school. Please tell us you are an IB diploma
> recipient from SLHS. BWAHAHAHAHA!
>
> Anyway, you schmucks have a nice weekend and keep
> posting on the board among the 3 of you how great
> SL is. Sooner or later one of you will actually
> believe it.
a. how mature of you
b. you still make no sense
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
ibnutz
()
Date: November 02, 2007 11:43AM
Wow. What happened after 2001?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 12:36PM
Responding to SLverity, etc...
Parents of kids from other schools are going to have a different perspective on this than parents of kids from South Lakes...they're not wrong to have that perspective. You don't have to agree, but you should understand what they are saying.
Relatively few people want to move their kids to new high schools even in the best of circumstances...kids at that age are very friend-oriented and activity-oriented, all centered around school, and are trying to do the best they can to be ready for college. While this is less of an issue if grandfathering happens, that's not a given, and it can lead to siblings being spilt, again not ideal. Even if the change is to a better school (better programs, better teachers, better location), a lot of people are concerned about change, and not because they are not "can-do" or luddites. Peopel at South Lakes don't have to change schools, so don't see this the same way.
In this case, the move would be to a school that is, arguably, "not as good as" the ones students are at. (Please no flames, don't shoot the messenger. My kids went to Lake Anne schools in the Spanish immersion program, so I have some understanding of different types of schools, and even Reston schools.) We know that there is no way to judge achools "correctly", that school performance is driven by the students and their background, that kids can do well in a variety of schools. That said, people who are looking at where to live to see what public high school is available will see that South Lakes "is not as good as" other schools when measured by criteria like test scores, dropout rate, etc. That's the perception. It could be wrong. It could be out of date. They could be failing to normalize for people from disadvantaged circumstances. But that IS the perception, and opinions of others need to be considered.
Nobody is (or should be...) saying that South Lakes is a bad school...it's arguably a great school and improving...but the objective comparisons against neighboring schools come up short. Again, South Lakes people don't have to deal with this. Imagine how you would feel if you were told your kids have to move, and to a school with lower objective comparison results. Would you be leading the can-do movement in favor of the change?
And in this case, the last straw is that the move appears to be motivated by reasons other than necessity or the best interest of the students being moved. The overenrollements are not a must-fix problem. The South Lakes underutilization is not a must-fix problem. It appears from the outside that any students being asked to move are simply to improve the demographics and performance of South Lakes, which again is a much better deal for people at South Lakes than the people being asked to move.
I do understand the glass half full message for South Lakes people...the improvement to South Lakes could in time remove some of the objective performance differential between the schools, and even if it doesn't, students transferring in will still receive a fine education as have countless others. Nobody is saying they won't...but they are already receiving a fine education, so they are not gaining anything here from the move.
Parents of kids from other schools are going to have a different perspective on this than parents of kids from South Lakes...they're not wrong to have that perspective. You don't have to agree, but you should understand what they are saying.
Relatively few people want to move their kids to new high schools even in the best of circumstances...kids at that age are very friend-oriented and activity-oriented, all centered around school, and are trying to do the best they can to be ready for college. While this is less of an issue if grandfathering happens, that's not a given, and it can lead to siblings being spilt, again not ideal. Even if the change is to a better school (better programs, better teachers, better location), a lot of people are concerned about change, and not because they are not "can-do" or luddites. Peopel at South Lakes don't have to change schools, so don't see this the same way.
In this case, the move would be to a school that is, arguably, "not as good as" the ones students are at. (Please no flames, don't shoot the messenger. My kids went to Lake Anne schools in the Spanish immersion program, so I have some understanding of different types of schools, and even Reston schools.) We know that there is no way to judge achools "correctly", that school performance is driven by the students and their background, that kids can do well in a variety of schools. That said, people who are looking at where to live to see what public high school is available will see that South Lakes "is not as good as" other schools when measured by criteria like test scores, dropout rate, etc. That's the perception. It could be wrong. It could be out of date. They could be failing to normalize for people from disadvantaged circumstances. But that IS the perception, and opinions of others need to be considered.
Nobody is (or should be...) saying that South Lakes is a bad school...it's arguably a great school and improving...but the objective comparisons against neighboring schools come up short. Again, South Lakes people don't have to deal with this. Imagine how you would feel if you were told your kids have to move, and to a school with lower objective comparison results. Would you be leading the can-do movement in favor of the change?
And in this case, the last straw is that the move appears to be motivated by reasons other than necessity or the best interest of the students being moved. The overenrollements are not a must-fix problem. The South Lakes underutilization is not a must-fix problem. It appears from the outside that any students being asked to move are simply to improve the demographics and performance of South Lakes, which again is a much better deal for people at South Lakes than the people being asked to move.
I do understand the glass half full message for South Lakes people...the improvement to South Lakes could in time remove some of the objective performance differential between the schools, and even if it doesn't, students transferring in will still receive a fine education as have countless others. Nobody is saying they won't...but they are already receiving a fine education, so they are not gaining anything here from the move.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 02, 2007 12:50PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
>
> >
> > How is putting a great magnet school program
> into
> > South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
>
> Because its better for the community if we are
> pulling students from a permanent cohesive
> boundary. They and their families will be more
> invested in the school. Period. Get it?
They won't be invested in the school if they don't want to be there.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
>
> >
> > How is putting a great magnet school program
> into
> > South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
>
> Because its better for the community if we are
> pulling students from a permanent cohesive
> boundary. They and their families will be more
> invested in the school. Period. Get it?
They won't be invested in the school if they don't want to be there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 12:54PM
Oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Responding to SLverity, etc...
>
> Parents of kids from other schools are going to
> have a different perspective on this than parents
> of kids from South Lakes...they're not wrong to
> have that perspective. You don't have to agree,
> but you should understand what they are saying.
>
> Relatively few people want to move their kids to
> new high schools even in the best of
> circumstances...kids at that age are very
> friend-oriented and activity-oriented, all
> centered around school, and are trying to do the
> best they can to be ready for college. While this
> is less of an issue if grandfathering happens,
> that's not a given, and it can lead to siblings
> being spilt, again not ideal. Even if the change
> is to a better school (better programs, better
> teachers, better location), a lot of people are
> concerned about change, and not because they are
> not "can-do" or luddites. Peopel at South Lakes
> don't have to change schools, so don't see this
> the same way.
>
> In this case, the move would be to a school that
> is, arguably, "not as good as" the ones students
> are at. (Please no flames, don't shoot the
> messenger. My kids went to Lake Anne schools in
> the Spanish immersion program, so I have some
> understanding of different types of schools, and
> even Reston schools.) We know that there is no
> way to judge achools "correctly", that school
> performance is driven by the students and their
> background, that kids can do well in a variety of
> schools. That said, people who are looking at
> where to live to see what public high school is
> available will see that South Lakes "is not as
> good as" other schools when measured by criteria
> like test scores, dropout rate, etc. That's the
> perception. It could be wrong. It could be out
> of date. They could be failing to normalize for
> people from disadvantaged circumstances. But that
> IS the perception, and opinions of others need to
> be considered.
>
> Nobody is (or should be...) saying that South
> Lakes is a bad school...it's arguably a great
> school and improving...but the objective
> comparisons against neighboring schools come up
> short. Again, South Lakes people don't have to
> deal with this. Imagine how you would feel if you
> were told your kids have to move, and to a school
> with lower objective comparison results. Would
> you be leading the can-do movement in favor of the
> change?
>
> And in this case, the last straw is that the move
> appears to be motivated by reasons other than
> necessity or the best interest of the students
> being moved. The overenrollements are not a
> must-fix problem. The South Lakes
> underutilization is not a must-fix problem. It
> appears from the outside that any students being
> asked to move are simply to improve the
> demographics and performance of South Lakes, which
> again is a much better deal for people at South
> Lakes than the people being asked to move.
>
>
Thank you for your thoughtful response. The only thing I would add is that an influx of students from involved families would improve the demographics at the school to the point that it would be no different from surrounding ones. The surrounding schools have benefited from having a larger share of students from higher socio-economic levels.
I do understand the glass half full message for
> South Lakes people...the improvement to South
> Lakes could in time remove some of the objective
> performance differential between the schools, and
> even if it doesn't, students transferring in will
> still receive a fine education as have countless
> others. Nobody is saying they won't...but they
> are already receiving a fine education, so they
> are not gaining anything here from the move.
I would just like people to recognize that they might actually gain something. For example, a student from a large school like Westfield is competing with their peers for relatively few spots at State universities. For them, there may be an advantage to enrolling in a smaller school.
South Lakes truly is a good school. Our saying that does not take away from the 'goodness' of other schools. This is not a zero sum game.
Again, thanks for the very thoughtful post.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 03:15PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Responding to SLverity, etc...
>
> Parents of kids from other schools are going to
> have a different perspective on this than parents
> of kids from South Lakes...they're not wrong to
> have that perspective. You don't have to agree,
> but you should understand what they are saying.
>
> Relatively few people want to move their kids to
> new high schools even in the best of
> circumstances...kids at that age are very
> friend-oriented and activity-oriented, all
> centered around school, and are trying to do the
> best they can to be ready for college. While this
> is less of an issue if grandfathering happens,
> that's not a given, and it can lead to siblings
> being spilt, again not ideal. Even if the change
> is to a better school (better programs, better
> teachers, better location), a lot of people are
> concerned about change, and not because they are
> not "can-do" or luddites. Peopel at South Lakes
> don't have to change schools, so don't see this
> the same way.
>
> In this case, the move would be to a school that
> is, arguably, "not as good as" the ones students
> are at. (Please no flames, don't shoot the
> messenger. My kids went to Lake Anne schools in
> the Spanish immersion program, so I have some
> understanding of different types of schools, and
> even Reston schools.) We know that there is no
> way to judge achools "correctly", that school
> performance is driven by the students and their
> background, that kids can do well in a variety of
> schools. That said, people who are looking at
> where to live to see what public high school is
> available will see that South Lakes "is not as
> good as" other schools when measured by criteria
> like test scores, dropout rate, etc. That's the
> perception. It could be wrong. It could be out
> of date. They could be failing to normalize for
> people from disadvantaged circumstances. But that
> IS the perception, and opinions of others need to
> be considered.
>
> Nobody is (or should be...) saying that South
> Lakes is a bad school...it's arguably a great
> school and improving...but the objective
> comparisons against neighboring schools come up
> short. Again, South Lakes people don't have to
> deal with this. Imagine how you would feel if you
> were told your kids have to move, and to a school
> with lower objective comparison results. Would
> you be leading the can-do movement in favor of the
> change?
>
> And in this case, the last straw is that the move
> appears to be motivated by reasons other than
> necessity or the best interest of the students
> being moved. The overenrollements are not a
> must-fix problem. The South Lakes
> underutilization is not a must-fix problem. It
> appears from the outside that any students being
> asked to move are simply to improve the
> demographics and performance of South Lakes, which
> again is a much better deal for people at South
> Lakes than the people being asked to move.
>
>
Thank you for your thoughtful response. The only thing I would add is that an influx of students from involved families would improve the demographics at the school to the point that it would be no different from surrounding ones. The surrounding schools have benefited from having a larger share of students from higher socio-economic levels.
I do understand the glass half full message for
> South Lakes people...the improvement to South
> Lakes could in time remove some of the objective
> performance differential between the schools, and
> even if it doesn't, students transferring in will
> still receive a fine education as have countless
> others. Nobody is saying they won't...but they
> are already receiving a fine education, so they
> are not gaining anything here from the move.
I would just like people to recognize that they might actually gain something. For example, a student from a large school like Westfield is competing with their peers for relatively few spots at State universities. For them, there may be an advantage to enrolling in a smaller school.
South Lakes truly is a good school. Our saying that does not take away from the 'goodness' of other schools. This is not a zero sum game.
Again, thanks for the very thoughtful post.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 03:15PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:00PM
Oakton Parent,
According to Bruce Butler, there IS a problem providing all of the courses and activities in demand at South Lakes. According to him, South Lakes is often teetering on the line to be able to keep full time teachers and critical courses because of the underenrollment, and numbers are threatening to go down further. So many see this as a "must fix" problem.
And many parents from Oakton that I've heard DO complain about the distance. That might not be a compelling reason for you, but it perhaps is for others.
Of couse no one likes redistricting. But South Lakes has suffered from past redistricting, and all we are asking for is to be treated fairly and not expected to "fix our own problem". It's not just ours, but Fairfax County's problem. That obviously is not your perspective, but the school board is obligated to take care of ALL of its schools.
And seriously, "nobody is saying they won't" --have you even read this board? There are countless examples of people saying they won't. All for their own political purposes of convincing those that might be open to the idea of South Lakes that it would be a terrible idea and they should fear for their children and they are not good parents if they let their kids go to South Lakes.
That's what I see is unfair.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
According to Bruce Butler, there IS a problem providing all of the courses and activities in demand at South Lakes. According to him, South Lakes is often teetering on the line to be able to keep full time teachers and critical courses because of the underenrollment, and numbers are threatening to go down further. So many see this as a "must fix" problem.
And many parents from Oakton that I've heard DO complain about the distance. That might not be a compelling reason for you, but it perhaps is for others.
Of couse no one likes redistricting. But South Lakes has suffered from past redistricting, and all we are asking for is to be treated fairly and not expected to "fix our own problem". It's not just ours, but Fairfax County's problem. That obviously is not your perspective, but the school board is obligated to take care of ALL of its schools.
And seriously, "nobody is saying they won't" --have you even read this board? There are countless examples of people saying they won't. All for their own political purposes of convincing those that might be open to the idea of South Lakes that it would be a terrible idea and they should fear for their children and they are not good parents if they let their kids go to South Lakes.
That's what I see is unfair.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:10PM
I have also seen the fear-mongering on this board, and it is not worthy of this discussion. What I can't recall is anyone from SL criticizing other schools.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:11PM by SLVerity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:11PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:13PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> > diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet
> not
> > wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> > believe that underprivileged population should
> be
> > overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> > black and white enough for you, but it is
> possible
> > to have both viewpoints.
>
> Also,
> You think parents from McNair are not qualified to
> post to this board? You have never recognized
> their veiwpoint. Or the viewpoint of the Hispanic
> population at Herndon or Chantilly? Or the
> underpriviledged communities at all the other high
> schools. You act as if they are not engaged that
> this board is a fortress.
>
> You are right. There are 2 viewpoints. You have
> chosen one.
Cricket, am I wrong or haven't you been advocating moving McNair to SL? If I am wrong, I will stand corrected. Perhaps it was Neen or Word.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> > diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet
> not
> > wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> > believe that underprivileged population should
> be
> > overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> > black and white enough for you, but it is
> possible
> > to have both viewpoints.
>
> Also,
> You think parents from McNair are not qualified to
> post to this board? You have never recognized
> their veiwpoint. Or the viewpoint of the Hispanic
> population at Herndon or Chantilly? Or the
> underpriviledged communities at all the other high
> schools. You act as if they are not engaged that
> this board is a fortress.
>
> You are right. There are 2 viewpoints. You have
> chosen one.
Cricket, am I wrong or haven't you been advocating moving McNair to SL? If I am wrong, I will stand corrected. Perhaps it was Neen or Word.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Westfield Parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:19PM
Sycamore Lakes WAS NEVER pulled from South Lakes!!! We were in the Oakton district and later moved in 2000 to Westfield. Get your story straight!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:27PM
SLVerity Wrote:
>
> Cricket, am I wrong or haven't you been advocating
> moving McNair to SL? If I am wrong, I will stand
> corrected. Perhaps it was Neen or Word.
This is me:
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
>
> Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage
> the research. However, I do caution you (and
> others) not to spend too much time sitting at the
> curb or doing "back of the napkin" enrollment
> calculations. What is McNair today, is not
> necessarily what will be McNair tomorrow. And
> because of this, it would be unwise for the
> communities surrounding McNair to let it go
> anywhere without a fight. These same communities
> will face yet another boundary study in 08-09 with
> the opening of Coppermine. The make up of all
> schools surrounding McNair (Hutchinson, Dogwood,
> Floris, Fox Mill) could change in a year. What
> looks ideal to some, today, may not be the same
> tomorrow. Not saying it will be any less ideal,
> just not the same. Communities on the Dulles side
> of Ffx. Pkwy. will not have their blinders on when
> it comes to McNair. A good position at the end of
> this study does not lead to stability for very
> long. It just never ends and this is one reason
> why many people in these communities are pissed
> off. You would think that the county would be
> wise and tackle this boundary at the same time,
> since there is so much at stake. But then again,
> that is too smart.
And this is me:
Cricket Wrote:
>
> Big Leap, by you. But no, I think that we ALL,
> including you, were trying to figure out where the
> 40% non-English speaking population at McNair
> lived.
>
> As a matter of fact, large apt. complexes, a few
> condo communities and a trailer park or two attend
> our high school. And, we are fighting to stay.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:45PM by Cricket.
>
> Cricket, am I wrong or haven't you been advocating
> moving McNair to SL? If I am wrong, I will stand
> corrected. Perhaps it was Neen or Word.
This is me:
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
>
> Your effort is admirable and I don't discourage
> the research. However, I do caution you (and
> others) not to spend too much time sitting at the
> curb or doing "back of the napkin" enrollment
> calculations. What is McNair today, is not
> necessarily what will be McNair tomorrow. And
> because of this, it would be unwise for the
> communities surrounding McNair to let it go
> anywhere without a fight. These same communities
> will face yet another boundary study in 08-09 with
> the opening of Coppermine. The make up of all
> schools surrounding McNair (Hutchinson, Dogwood,
> Floris, Fox Mill) could change in a year. What
> looks ideal to some, today, may not be the same
> tomorrow. Not saying it will be any less ideal,
> just not the same. Communities on the Dulles side
> of Ffx. Pkwy. will not have their blinders on when
> it comes to McNair. A good position at the end of
> this study does not lead to stability for very
> long. It just never ends and this is one reason
> why many people in these communities are pissed
> off. You would think that the county would be
> wise and tackle this boundary at the same time,
> since there is so much at stake. But then again,
> that is too smart.
And this is me:
Cricket Wrote:
>
> Big Leap, by you. But no, I think that we ALL,
> including you, were trying to figure out where the
> 40% non-English speaking population at McNair
> lived.
>
> As a matter of fact, large apt. complexes, a few
> condo communities and a trailer park or two attend
> our high school. And, we are fighting to stay.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:45PM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:32PM
ibnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. What happened after 2001?
New principal - disaster.
Established population aging in place - the white kids graduated and mom and dad still live in the house.
Property values shoot through the roof preventing young families from affording the few houses that go on the market
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. What happened after 2001?
New principal - disaster.
Established population aging in place - the white kids graduated and mom and dad still live in the house.
Property values shoot through the roof preventing young families from affording the few houses that go on the market
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:48PM
Westfield Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sycamore Lakes WAS NEVER pulled from South
> Lakes!!! We were in the Oakton district and later
> moved in 2000 to Westfield. Get your story
> straight!
That's not what Stu Gibson said. If that was wrong I stand corrected. Forgive me, please.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:50PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sycamore Lakes WAS NEVER pulled from South
> Lakes!!! We were in the Oakton district and later
> moved in 2000 to Westfield. Get your story
> straight!
That's not what Stu Gibson said. If that was wrong I stand corrected. Forgive me, please.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 01:50PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 01:49PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ibnutz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow. What happened after 2001?
>
> New principal - disaster.
>
Clarification, new then, now gone principal. Thankfully!
-------------------------------------------------------
> ibnutz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow. What happened after 2001?
>
> New principal - disaster.
>
Clarification, new then, now gone principal. Thankfully!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:02PM
Oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the South Lakes underutilization is not a must-fix problem.
I deeply appreciate the maturity and civility with which your views are stated. If you've read any part of the thread you know that I am both a current and long suffering SL parent and not one who sees SL through rose colored glasses but I must ask you to at least consider that the underenrollment at SL is a must fix problem for my children.
The number of teachers assigned a school is the product of the number of kids in the school. There are other factors but it starts there.
With profound underenrollment, such as we have at South Lakes, they had to drop a significant number of classes, e.g. ASL as a language class, economics was dropped, Advanced accounting is a on-line course. Other parents can list other courses that Oakton has but our kids don't.
I also know that underenrollment is one reason that the kid with the reading problem was being remediated by a science teacher instead of a teacher certified in reading problems.
Getting SL up to full enrollment means 12 more teachers at SL and 72 more classes for our kids.
It also has a serious impact on the competiveness of our sports teams. The joke on many SL teams is that the essential skill one has to have to make a team at SL is:
a pulse and we can negotiate that.
SL has a magnet mr program. Kids come from all over western FFX to that program and I'm glad we can be the center even though it drags down some of SL's "objective criteria" and it helps to keep the numbers at these kids base high school higher than it might otherwise be.
The presence of that program also artificially inflates our enrollment. For practical purposes our enrollment is down to 1200 kids. All FFX schools are in class AAA. There 6-8 school in AA (the class that most Loudoun County schools and George Mason High School is in) that have more kids than SL. Paul Jensen, the about to be retired County wide DSA, refuses to move SL to AA. So our kids work hard but have no chance against teams in the Liberty District and the jerk DSA from Fairfax High school wants to move SL back into Concorde against Westfield with 3200 kids.
Change is hard and scary and there have been too many boundary changes in western ffx that have been uncoordinated. Cricket wants to postpone the SL boundary so that its done with the Coopermine boundary at the same time. Fine with me.
You want to send the Westfield part of McNair to SL. I think that's ok but I need more information before I make a final conclusion.
My first preference is Aldrin for the reasons stated too many times.
But leaving SL at 1200 main stream kids is cruel and not fair. It is a must fix.
More Later
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 02:17PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> the South Lakes underutilization is not a must-fix problem.
I deeply appreciate the maturity and civility with which your views are stated. If you've read any part of the thread you know that I am both a current and long suffering SL parent and not one who sees SL through rose colored glasses but I must ask you to at least consider that the underenrollment at SL is a must fix problem for my children.
The number of teachers assigned a school is the product of the number of kids in the school. There are other factors but it starts there.
With profound underenrollment, such as we have at South Lakes, they had to drop a significant number of classes, e.g. ASL as a language class, economics was dropped, Advanced accounting is a on-line course. Other parents can list other courses that Oakton has but our kids don't.
I also know that underenrollment is one reason that the kid with the reading problem was being remediated by a science teacher instead of a teacher certified in reading problems.
Getting SL up to full enrollment means 12 more teachers at SL and 72 more classes for our kids.
It also has a serious impact on the competiveness of our sports teams. The joke on many SL teams is that the essential skill one has to have to make a team at SL is:
a pulse and we can negotiate that.
SL has a magnet mr program. Kids come from all over western FFX to that program and I'm glad we can be the center even though it drags down some of SL's "objective criteria" and it helps to keep the numbers at these kids base high school higher than it might otherwise be.
The presence of that program also artificially inflates our enrollment. For practical purposes our enrollment is down to 1200 kids. All FFX schools are in class AAA. There 6-8 school in AA (the class that most Loudoun County schools and George Mason High School is in) that have more kids than SL. Paul Jensen, the about to be retired County wide DSA, refuses to move SL to AA. So our kids work hard but have no chance against teams in the Liberty District and the jerk DSA from Fairfax High school wants to move SL back into Concorde against Westfield with 3200 kids.
Change is hard and scary and there have been too many boundary changes in western ffx that have been uncoordinated. Cricket wants to postpone the SL boundary so that its done with the Coopermine boundary at the same time. Fine with me.
You want to send the Westfield part of McNair to SL. I think that's ok but I need more information before I make a final conclusion.
My first preference is Aldrin for the reasons stated too many times.
But leaving SL at 1200 main stream kids is cruel and not fair. It is a must fix.
More Later
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 02:17PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 02, 2007 02:51PM
Spanker:
I have been trying to formulate an articulate response to such articulate points as Bwahhhah, etc., but I can't. If you want to spend a gazillion on private school because you can't find anything good in FCPS, please cc us when you are pissed off at the private schools for letting you down......it's inevitable.
I have been trying to formulate an articulate response to such articulate points as Bwahhhah, etc., but I can't. If you want to spend a gazillion on private school because you can't find anything good in FCPS, please cc us when you are pissed off at the private schools for letting you down......it's inevitable.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 03:19PM
Mi Padre - I think you must be a loooong-time advocate for the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 03:23PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> > diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet
> not
> > wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> > believe that underprivileged population should
> be
> > overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> > black and white enough for you, but it is
> possible
> > to have both viewpoints.
>
> Also,
> You think parents from McNair are not qualified to
> post to this board? You have never recognized
> their veiwpoint. Or the viewpoint of the Hispanic
> population at Herndon or Chantilly? Or the
> underpriviledged communities at all the other high
> schools. You act as if they are not engaged that
> this board is a fortress.
>
> You are right. There are 2 viewpoints. You have
> chosen one.
Sorry, Cricket--not getting your point here. Do you know what the McNair viewpoint is? Or what the hispanic population at Herndon or Chantilly would say? I haven't seen anyone from there post...so not sure what you are getting at. I'd be more than willing to listen if they identified themselves as such and posted.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > And I don't see any conflict with liking the
> > diversity that we have at South Lakes and yet
> not
> > wanting another underperforming school. I don't
> > believe that underprivileged population should
> be
> > overrepresented at any school. Maybe that's not
> > black and white enough for you, but it is
> possible
> > to have both viewpoints.
>
> Also,
> You think parents from McNair are not qualified to
> post to this board? You have never recognized
> their veiwpoint. Or the viewpoint of the Hispanic
> population at Herndon or Chantilly? Or the
> underpriviledged communities at all the other high
> schools. You act as if they are not engaged that
> this board is a fortress.
>
> You are right. There are 2 viewpoints. You have
> chosen one.
Sorry, Cricket--not getting your point here. Do you know what the McNair viewpoint is? Or what the hispanic population at Herndon or Chantilly would say? I haven't seen anyone from there post...so not sure what you are getting at. I'd be more than willing to listen if they identified themselves as such and posted.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Westfield Parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 03:24PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sycamore Lakes WAS NEVER pulled from South
> > Lakes!!! We were in the Oakton district and
> later
> > moved in 2000 to Westfield. Get your story
> > straight!
>
> That's not what Stu Gibson said. If that was wrong
> I stand corrected. Forgive me, please.
This does not surprise me at all. Please consider the source. Stu Gibson doesn't even know the neighborhoods that he represents!! Sycamore Lakes has NEVER, EVER been a part of the South Lakes pyramid and I should know I have lived here since its inception 12 years ago. We bought our home in 1995 to be in the Oakton district and we were moved to Westfield in 2000. Our neighborhood has been subjected to his gross mismanagement for 12 years and has been involved in 5 boundary studies. He needs to go . . .
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sycamore Lakes WAS NEVER pulled from South
> > Lakes!!! We were in the Oakton district and
> later
> > moved in 2000 to Westfield. Get your story
> > straight!
>
> That's not what Stu Gibson said. If that was wrong
> I stand corrected. Forgive me, please.
This does not surprise me at all. Please consider the source. Stu Gibson doesn't even know the neighborhoods that he represents!! Sycamore Lakes has NEVER, EVER been a part of the South Lakes pyramid and I should know I have lived here since its inception 12 years ago. We bought our home in 1995 to be in the Oakton district and we were moved to Westfield in 2000. Our neighborhood has been subjected to his gross mismanagement for 12 years and has been involved in 5 boundary studies. He needs to go . . .
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Jester
()
Date: November 02, 2007 03:47PM
I'd like to see:
500 white, 300 black, 150 Hispanic, 200 Asian (Me digs Asian Women), 150 Amer. Indian, 10 Puerto ricans.
Now we're going to have to mix these up but best would be:
400 Christian(100 Catholic, 10 Presbyterian, 20 Baptist, rest misc.), 100 Jewish, 100 Islamic, 100 Mormon, 10 Wicians, 2 Atheists, 50 Buddhists, 4 Voodoo.
Male to female:
50/50, everybody should be able to have a prom date.
I hope this helps to resolve some issues.
Sexual orientation:
Straight\Bi(Women only)\Gay 50\45\5
Really! Some of you really need to re-evaluate your morals!
Attachments:
500 white, 300 black, 150 Hispanic, 200 Asian (Me digs Asian Women), 150 Amer. Indian, 10 Puerto ricans.
Now we're going to have to mix these up but best would be:
400 Christian(100 Catholic, 10 Presbyterian, 20 Baptist, rest misc.), 100 Jewish, 100 Islamic, 100 Mormon, 10 Wicians, 2 Atheists, 50 Buddhists, 4 Voodoo.
Male to female:
50/50, everybody should be able to have a prom date.
I hope this helps to resolve some issues.
Sexual orientation:
Straight\Bi(Women only)\Gay 50\45\5
Really! Some of you really need to re-evaluate your morals!
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:05PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
> How is putting a great magnet school program
> into South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
It's not throwing SL under the bus but a magnet doesn't address the fundamental unfairness of the current situation.
500-700 kids gets SL 12 more teachers. If those 12 new teachers are used to create the magnet program, (I doubt it can be done without having the exclusive use of all 12), the courses available for the 1200 main stream kids now at SL can't been expanded.
If kids from the general population can attend the "magnet" courses, is it then really a magnet school?
Will a magnet even work for only 500-700 kids?
Can the magnet population be intergrated into the general population or will they always be a separate sub-school of "suitcase" kids who go home every day at 2:10 rarely participating in extracurricular activities and never really become Sea Hawks?
It not about filling up a building for my kids, its about having the same panoply of academic opportunities at SL that kids at Oakton and Fairfax and Robinson enjoy.
Now, if we can just upgrade the instructional staff, you'd all be beating a path to our door.
More Later
> How is putting a great magnet school program
> into South Lakes throwing it under the bus?
It's not throwing SL under the bus but a magnet doesn't address the fundamental unfairness of the current situation.
500-700 kids gets SL 12 more teachers. If those 12 new teachers are used to create the magnet program, (I doubt it can be done without having the exclusive use of all 12), the courses available for the 1200 main stream kids now at SL can't been expanded.
If kids from the general population can attend the "magnet" courses, is it then really a magnet school?
Will a magnet even work for only 500-700 kids?
Can the magnet population be intergrated into the general population or will they always be a separate sub-school of "suitcase" kids who go home every day at 2:10 rarely participating in extracurricular activities and never really become Sea Hawks?
It not about filling up a building for my kids, its about having the same panoply of academic opportunities at SL that kids at Oakton and Fairfax and Robinson enjoy.
Now, if we can just upgrade the instructional staff, you'd all be beating a path to our door.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:06PM
The reason that so few kids receive an IB diploma is because the program is very hard. I’ve never taken AP courses so I can’t speak for the difficulty, but IB classes are very intense classes that require many hours of dedication. But it is worth it; from the IB graduates of 2007 we had kids at UVA, MIT, Princeton, W&M, BC, Georgetown, Hopkins, and other prestigious universities. I was at Penn this summer and they do give credits for IB courses, the same as they do for AP. The IB program is a relatively young program in the U.S. and is still growing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:24PM
>>>Nothing wrong with learning to write and think critically, but if students are really looking for advanced math, AP schools usually have more to offer.<<<
So students who might want careers in engineering, computer science, math, physics, bio-sciences, or medicine, would do better in an AP program which also teaches students to write (AP English and AP history require good writing) and to think (it's difficult to take college level AP courses and not think). In addition, students can earn many more credits for AP courses, which would greatly benefit low income students for whom money is a serious issue.
Like I said, IB and AP are not the same. IB is great for those intending to apply to college in France or England. For the rest of the students, AP is better.
So students who might want careers in engineering, computer science, math, physics, bio-sciences, or medicine, would do better in an AP program which also teaches students to write (AP English and AP history require good writing) and to think (it's difficult to take college level AP courses and not think). In addition, students can earn many more credits for AP courses, which would greatly benefit low income students for whom money is a serious issue.
Like I said, IB and AP are not the same. IB is great for those intending to apply to college in France or England. For the rest of the students, AP is better.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:30PM
SLVerity,
Do we know yet how many achieved the IB diploma this year? Not candidates, but actually got the diploma?
Making fun of someone for using the most recent data available, is, well, not very nice.
Do we know yet how many achieved the IB diploma this year? Not candidates, but actually got the diploma?
Making fun of someone for using the most recent data available, is, well, not very nice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:36PM
Word,
Thanks for posting the South Lakes chart. Very interesting! It's clearly white flight that has left SL's in the shape that it's in. Wasn't IB supposed to turn that around? It appears to have no impact on stopping White Flight. One has to wonder why nothing else was ever tried, like a magnet program within the school? That worked for several of the Montgomery County schools. Why not at our county's under enrolled high schools?
Thanks for posting the South Lakes chart. Very interesting! It's clearly white flight that has left SL's in the shape that it's in. Wasn't IB supposed to turn that around? It appears to have no impact on stopping White Flight. One has to wonder why nothing else was ever tried, like a magnet program within the school? That worked for several of the Montgomery County schools. Why not at our county's under enrolled high schools?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:42PM
AT Montgomery Blair high school they have several magnet programs. Students most certainly are integrated into the school. They have something like 7 sub schools for various things, math and science being one, a mini TJ type program that often our scores TJ. They win more Intell awards that TJ too. They also have an excellent journalism program. Blair is a huge school, a school like South Lakes wouldn't need so many sub schools, perhaps only one or two, like a mini TJ program, with REAL math, science and engineering, or a real journalism program, or a selective IB program where ALL students are going for the diploma. There are so many things that could be done at South Lakes and our other under enrolled schools, if only our school board would allow them.
There are ways to attract students TO a school, as they've done in many other school districts, rather than simply forcing students into a school. That is the least attractive way to do it and the method least likely to be successful.
There are ways to attract students TO a school, as they've done in many other school districts, rather than simply forcing students into a school. That is the least attractive way to do it and the method least likely to be successful.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:44PM
Neen,
I don't know many SL parents that want a magnet at their school, but you can bring it up at the meetings.
I don't know many SL parents that want a magnet at their school, but you can bring it up at the meetings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:45PM
I have no intentions of applying to school in France or England…and I’m in the IB program. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only IB student in the country who plans on attended college in the U.S. I’m also considering chemical engineering…and I’m in the IB program. I’m not sure how high the AP curriculum goes but I know that IB has one step above Calculus. Calculus is called IB Math II SL (which includes but is not limited to what I think AP calls AB Calculus). However if you take Algebra I and Geometry before ninth grade then you take IB Higher Math senior year. However, if your child already knows in eighth grade that they want to go into a math heavy field then TJ is the best fit for them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:58PM
>>>Property values shoot through the roof preventing young families from affording the few houses that go on the market<<<
That happened county wide, not just in Reston. Yet other high schools did not have the drop in students that South Lakes has had. The only group that dropped in numbers were whites, with a rather steady decline. My opinion is a terrible principal helped feed that decline as did the IB program. Once white flight begins, it is very difficult to halt. Forcing more whites into the school is not the answer. Making South Lakes a better school, one that attracts more higher income families, is the answer.
Is there any other government monopoly service that forces people to use it when they don't want to, when they've actually chosen another?
That happened county wide, not just in Reston. Yet other high schools did not have the drop in students that South Lakes has had. The only group that dropped in numbers were whites, with a rather steady decline. My opinion is a terrible principal helped feed that decline as did the IB program. Once white flight begins, it is very difficult to halt. Forcing more whites into the school is not the answer. Making South Lakes a better school, one that attracts more higher income families, is the answer.
Is there any other government monopoly service that forces people to use it when they don't want to, when they've actually chosen another?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 02, 2007 04:58PM
Madison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason that so few kids receive an IB diploma
> is because the program is very hard. I’ve never
> taken AP courses so I can’t speak for the
> difficulty, but IB classes are very intense
> classes that require many hours of dedication.
> But it is worth it; from the IB graduates of 2007
> we had kids at UVA, MIT, Princeton, W&M, BC,
> Georgetown, Hopkins, and other prestigious
> universities. I was at Penn this summer and they
> do give credits for IB courses, the same as they
> do for AP. The IB program is a relatively young
> program in the U.S. and is still growing.
Agree with your points Madison.
While I'm not advocating one program over another, it is ridiculous to say that IB is only for those studying in Europe.
The description below is from the FCPS website - if it such a horrible program, why are they offering it at all and why are other school systems successful at it.
International Baccalaureate - The International Baccalaureate (IB) program provides a comprehensive rigorous education emphasizing analytical thinking, reading and writing skills with an international perspective. It is an advanced level college preparatory program open to highly motivated 11th and 12th grade students who seek academic rigor. A student can earn a full IB diploma by completing courses in 6 areas – English, foreign language, social studies, science, math, and elective. Beyond completing the course requirements, diploma students are required to engage in community service, individual research, and Theory of Knowledge class. Students may also choose to earn IB certificates for individual IB courses. All students enrolled in an IB course are required to take the end-of-course exam. Students must take the end-of-course exam to receive the .5 weighted grade. IB courses are recognized for college credit by many universities in the United States and abroad.
An accurate assessment isn't how many IB diplomas were awarded. More students take the classes than are awarded the diploma. And as one can see from the above description, the diploma consists of 6 courses plus TOK, comm service,and a 4000 word paper.
Students do receive college credit similarly to AP.
In addition, some students aren't as worried about testing out of college but actually getting into college. Both curricula are looking upon favorably for college acceptance.
Here are some numbers that I thought rather interesting. For the small population that TM laments (I do agree that they are underserved), as a whole, when they take IB, they are doing quite well. Look at the following participation and pass rates (1st # is participation rate, 2nd # is pass rate) of students in each curriculum.
A pass for AP is a 3+ while an IB pass is 4+.
Oakton
Asian 64% 76%
Black 30% 41%
Hisp 34% 57%
White 66% 77%
Other 67% 85%
South Lakes
Asian 46% 82%
Black 20% 67%
Hisp 21% 100%
White 58% 85%
Other 63% 69%
While Oakton has higher participation rates, SL students actually pass at a higher rate (except Other). IB has only been at SLHS since 2000 while AP has been at Oakton for much longer. Can't find the implementation date there but as I took AP over 25 years ago at Langley, we can assume it's been at Oakton for a couple decades as well.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason that so few kids receive an IB diploma
> is because the program is very hard. I’ve never
> taken AP courses so I can’t speak for the
> difficulty, but IB classes are very intense
> classes that require many hours of dedication.
> But it is worth it; from the IB graduates of 2007
> we had kids at UVA, MIT, Princeton, W&M, BC,
> Georgetown, Hopkins, and other prestigious
> universities. I was at Penn this summer and they
> do give credits for IB courses, the same as they
> do for AP. The IB program is a relatively young
> program in the U.S. and is still growing.
Agree with your points Madison.
While I'm not advocating one program over another, it is ridiculous to say that IB is only for those studying in Europe.
The description below is from the FCPS website - if it such a horrible program, why are they offering it at all and why are other school systems successful at it.
International Baccalaureate - The International Baccalaureate (IB) program provides a comprehensive rigorous education emphasizing analytical thinking, reading and writing skills with an international perspective. It is an advanced level college preparatory program open to highly motivated 11th and 12th grade students who seek academic rigor. A student can earn a full IB diploma by completing courses in 6 areas – English, foreign language, social studies, science, math, and elective. Beyond completing the course requirements, diploma students are required to engage in community service, individual research, and Theory of Knowledge class. Students may also choose to earn IB certificates for individual IB courses. All students enrolled in an IB course are required to take the end-of-course exam. Students must take the end-of-course exam to receive the .5 weighted grade. IB courses are recognized for college credit by many universities in the United States and abroad.
An accurate assessment isn't how many IB diplomas were awarded. More students take the classes than are awarded the diploma. And as one can see from the above description, the diploma consists of 6 courses plus TOK, comm service,and a 4000 word paper.
Students do receive college credit similarly to AP.
In addition, some students aren't as worried about testing out of college but actually getting into college. Both curricula are looking upon favorably for college acceptance.
Here are some numbers that I thought rather interesting. For the small population that TM laments (I do agree that they are underserved), as a whole, when they take IB, they are doing quite well. Look at the following participation and pass rates (1st # is participation rate, 2nd # is pass rate) of students in each curriculum.
A pass for AP is a 3+ while an IB pass is 4+.
Oakton
Asian 64% 76%
Black 30% 41%
Hisp 34% 57%
White 66% 77%
Other 67% 85%
South Lakes
Asian 46% 82%
Black 20% 67%
Hisp 21% 100%
White 58% 85%
Other 63% 69%
While Oakton has higher participation rates, SL students actually pass at a higher rate (except Other). IB has only been at SLHS since 2000 while AP has been at Oakton for much longer. Can't find the implementation date there but as I took AP over 25 years ago at Langley, we can assume it's been at Oakton for a couple decades as well.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:03PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's clearly white flight that has
> left SL's in the shape that it's in.
I know you're smarter than this and are just being imflamatory for your own entertainment.
In cities with "forced busing", white flight was a term to described falling numbers of white residents (not students) with a large influx of minority residents. It was characterized by blighted and abandoned neighborhoods and high rates of street crime.
Nothing like that has happened or is about to happen in Reston. Given the no growth, no business attitude of the Vienna Town Council and the relative age of the houses in the Town, you'll see blight and abandon neighborhoods in Vienna one or two decades before it ever happens in Reston. RA is very good about that and it has stronger enforcement tools on neglected homes than Vienna. RA has its problems too, but they don't let one absentee landlord in an SFD neighborhood drag down the whole block.
I've told you why the white population at SL has fallen. Rebut those explanations with facts but save the equine excrement for your party meetings.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 05:16PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's clearly white flight that has
> left SL's in the shape that it's in.
I know you're smarter than this and are just being imflamatory for your own entertainment.
In cities with "forced busing", white flight was a term to described falling numbers of white residents (not students) with a large influx of minority residents. It was characterized by blighted and abandoned neighborhoods and high rates of street crime.
Nothing like that has happened or is about to happen in Reston. Given the no growth, no business attitude of the Vienna Town Council and the relative age of the houses in the Town, you'll see blight and abandon neighborhoods in Vienna one or two decades before it ever happens in Reston. RA is very good about that and it has stronger enforcement tools on neglected homes than Vienna. RA has its problems too, but they don't let one absentee landlord in an SFD neighborhood drag down the whole block.
I've told you why the white population at SL has fallen. Rebut those explanations with facts but save the equine excrement for your party meetings.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 05:16PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:03PM
Once the boundary meetings are underway it's too late to do a magnet, and there won't be a need for one, from there point of view. At that point they will be forcing people into South Lakes, they have no incentive to try to attract them to South Lakes.
Only if Christine and John are elected is there a chance to derail this and start over, perhaps with magnet programs.
Why don't South Lakes parents want a magnet to attract more high performing students? With redistricting South Lakes still won't get those kids. They won't go to South Lakes with a good reason. They have the brains, and the money, to go elsewhere. The parents can pupil place, send them to private school, or move. People don't like being forced to do things. They tend to resist, mightily. South Lakes will be very lucky if they get half of the students they redistrict. Which means another boundary change in a few years. If our current school board had the sense God gave a goose, they would have known that.
Only if Christine and John are elected is there a chance to derail this and start over, perhaps with magnet programs.
Why don't South Lakes parents want a magnet to attract more high performing students? With redistricting South Lakes still won't get those kids. They won't go to South Lakes with a good reason. They have the brains, and the money, to go elsewhere. The parents can pupil place, send them to private school, or move. People don't like being forced to do things. They tend to resist, mightily. South Lakes will be very lucky if they get half of the students they redistrict. Which means another boundary change in a few years. If our current school board had the sense God gave a goose, they would have known that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:04PM
Last year, USA Today did a piece on AP and how in "recent years, a troubling pattern has emerged. Increasingly, admitted students who boast AP credits "really weren't in many ways ready for the rigor of our college curriculum," says Edith Waldstein, vice president for enrollment management."
Hmmm - didn't I mention that a few pages back....
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-03-20-ap-main_x.htm
Here's an excerpt -
Focus on education, not a test
Counters Michael Kirst, a Stanford University professor of education, "We ought to work on (improving) the existing curriculum, not on funneling people into AP who aren't ready for it."
But the more AP becomes a tool to improve high school rigor, the less impressed college faculty seem to be with the credential.
"There is something about a good undergraduate general education that can't be easily replicated by a terrific high school course," says Bruce Johnstone, higher education professor at the University at Buffalo and former chair of the College Board trustees.
Even some students agree. "Even though the AP test provides some sort of standard, it doesn't necessarily ensure that students got a great perspective on these subjects," says MIT senior Christopher Suarez, 22. He says some AP courses prepared him for MIT but not all. "The focus is on the test and not necessarily on the fundamental knowledge of the material."
Hmmm, an MIT senior. He probably got his information from Stu - let's flame him!
Hmmm - didn't I mention that a few pages back....
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-03-20-ap-main_x.htm
Here's an excerpt -
Focus on education, not a test
Counters Michael Kirst, a Stanford University professor of education, "We ought to work on (improving) the existing curriculum, not on funneling people into AP who aren't ready for it."
But the more AP becomes a tool to improve high school rigor, the less impressed college faculty seem to be with the credential.
"There is something about a good undergraduate general education that can't be easily replicated by a terrific high school course," says Bruce Johnstone, higher education professor at the University at Buffalo and former chair of the College Board trustees.
Even some students agree. "Even though the AP test provides some sort of standard, it doesn't necessarily ensure that students got a great perspective on these subjects," says MIT senior Christopher Suarez, 22. He says some AP courses prepared him for MIT but not all. "The focus is on the test and not necessarily on the fundamental knowledge of the material."
Hmmm, an MIT senior. He probably got his information from Stu - let's flame him!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:11PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Property values shoot through the roof
> preventing young families from affording the few
> houses that go on the market<<<
>
> That happened county wide, not just in Reston.
What other parts of the County saw a 400% increase the the price of starter homes?
What other part of the County has Reston's access to entry level jobs for college graduates in close proximity to a large stock of starter homes like the Dulles Corridor?
Only the Springfield corridor has as easy access to downtown DC comparable to Reston and it's not nearly as good as Reston's.
Reston is facing housing pressures no other part of the County is experiencing.
Remember the the schools around McLean went through a similar problem in the late 80's and early 90s right after the last housing boom. Thats when our pal Lou Zone partitioned Reston to take care of McLean and Marshall.
You're better than this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 05:11PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Property values shoot through the roof
> preventing young families from affording the few
> houses that go on the market<<<
>
> That happened county wide, not just in Reston.
What other parts of the County saw a 400% increase the the price of starter homes?
What other part of the County has Reston's access to entry level jobs for college graduates in close proximity to a large stock of starter homes like the Dulles Corridor?
Only the Springfield corridor has as easy access to downtown DC comparable to Reston and it's not nearly as good as Reston's.
Reston is facing housing pressures no other part of the County is experiencing.
Remember the the schools around McLean went through a similar problem in the late 80's and early 90s right after the last housing boom. Thats when our pal Lou Zone partitioned Reston to take care of McLean and Marshall.
You're better than this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 05:11PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:17PM
Thomas,
It won't happen in Vienna because all the small houses are being torn down and very attractive, old fashion looking, houses are being put in their place and selling for twice the price. Surely you've noticed this in Vienna Woods where little houses are being replaced by gorgeous new homes with big front porches and beautiful architectural details. Unfortunately for Reston, your HOA will not permit new, attractive homes, in place of small, unattractive homes. Surely you know that is one of Reston's biggest problems in attracting families, too many older homes of a style no one wants today that cannot be substantially altered. That's your HOA, something we are fortunate enough not to have in Vienna. In Vienna, the market is allowed to work, and it does.
I use the term White Flight for two reasons. First, look at the chart of enrollment decline at South Lakes. Whites left. The other groups remained relatively stable. Second, when IB was instituted, first at Stuart and Mount Vernon, Dr. Nancy Sprague, assistant superintendent in charge of instruction, said they were putting IB into schools with the hopes of stopping White Flight. They hoped that by giving White students a new, special, program, it would ease the fears of white parents sending their children to schools with high minority populations. That's just the facts, Thomas, whether you like them or not. If you would prefer to call it white leaving, rather than white flight, be my guest. Reminds me of what someone else here said.......about lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. Whites are still leaving South Lakes. Euphemisms that your democratIC party insist on using don't change the reality.
I have no idea why you think any party had anything to do with this. They didn't, and they don't. It's the school system and Reston rules.
It won't happen in Vienna because all the small houses are being torn down and very attractive, old fashion looking, houses are being put in their place and selling for twice the price. Surely you've noticed this in Vienna Woods where little houses are being replaced by gorgeous new homes with big front porches and beautiful architectural details. Unfortunately for Reston, your HOA will not permit new, attractive homes, in place of small, unattractive homes. Surely you know that is one of Reston's biggest problems in attracting families, too many older homes of a style no one wants today that cannot be substantially altered. That's your HOA, something we are fortunate enough not to have in Vienna. In Vienna, the market is allowed to work, and it does.
I use the term White Flight for two reasons. First, look at the chart of enrollment decline at South Lakes. Whites left. The other groups remained relatively stable. Second, when IB was instituted, first at Stuart and Mount Vernon, Dr. Nancy Sprague, assistant superintendent in charge of instruction, said they were putting IB into schools with the hopes of stopping White Flight. They hoped that by giving White students a new, special, program, it would ease the fears of white parents sending their children to schools with high minority populations. That's just the facts, Thomas, whether you like them or not. If you would prefer to call it white leaving, rather than white flight, be my guest. Reminds me of what someone else here said.......about lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. Whites are still leaving South Lakes. Euphemisms that your democratIC party insist on using don't change the reality.
I have no idea why you think any party had anything to do with this. They didn't, and they don't. It's the school system and Reston rules.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:19PM
Are you saying that starter homes, which I assume you mean condos and townhouses, are more expensive in Reston than Vienna and McLean? That Reston is an easier commute to Tysons and downtown than Vienna and McLean.
You're smarter than this.
You're smarter than this.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:22PM
>>>if your child already knows in eighth grade that they want to go into a math heavy field then TJ is the best fit for them<<<
If only TJ could accommodate all those students who wanted a career in engineering, math, science, and medicine. If only our school board would allow more schools like TJ for those students who are willing to work that hard and want those courses. But they won't, because they care more about what staff wants than what children need.
If only TJ could accommodate all those students who wanted a career in engineering, math, science, and medicine. If only our school board would allow more schools like TJ for those students who are willing to work that hard and want those courses. But they won't, because they care more about what staff wants than what children need.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:25PM
>>>The reason that so few kids receive an IB diploma is because the program is very hard<<<
Yes, most students conclude that the pay off is not worth the price, particularly if they aren't going to college in Europe.
Yes, most students conclude that the pay off is not worth the price, particularly if they aren't going to college in Europe.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:27PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't South Lakes parents want a magnet to
> attract more high performing students?
Attracting high performing kids is Stu's priority and maybe Bruce's. It's definitely not mine. May be Stu and Bruce want them to cover-up a dysfunctional staff, who knows.
I'm happy with more kids. I'd like most of them to be kids who just want to go to college. SL doesn't need a bunch of Type A trophy kids whose parents spend all summer bragging about Wahoo or Haaavaad.
If getting rid of IB gets me that, I sign on to that in a minute. (No surprise, right.)
If McNair gets me that, and I suspect it will, I'll sign on for that.
But for God sakes can Bruce and Stu/Christine please pay attention to seriously upgrading the instructional staff.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:45PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't South Lakes parents want a magnet to
> attract more high performing students?
Attracting high performing kids is Stu's priority and maybe Bruce's. It's definitely not mine. May be Stu and Bruce want them to cover-up a dysfunctional staff, who knows.
I'm happy with more kids. I'd like most of them to be kids who just want to go to college. SL doesn't need a bunch of Type A trophy kids whose parents spend all summer bragging about Wahoo or Haaavaad.
If getting rid of IB gets me that, I sign on to that in a minute. (No surprise, right.)
If McNair gets me that, and I suspect it will, I'll sign on for that.
But for God sakes can Bruce and Stu/Christine please pay attention to seriously upgrading the instructional staff.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:45PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:52PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Why don't South Lakes parents want a magnet to
> attract more high performing students?
As TM said, all people want is a regular community school that draws from our local community. Rectify what was dismantled by previous boards. Rebalance what was previously balanced.
> redistricting South Lakes still won't get those
> kids. They won't go to South Lakes with a good
> reason. They have the brains, and the money, to
> go elsewhere. The parents can pupil place, send
> them to private school, or move.
People may pupil place or even choose private, initially, but the travel costs/hassles and tuition costs will prove a barrier to many. Eventually others will acquiese especially once they see their neighbors kids go and happily adjust. It's happened time and time again. The kids are fine - it's the parents that have the issues.
They won't move - good luck selling your house in this market!
> like being forced to do things. They tend to
> resist, mightily. South Lakes will be very lucky
> if they get half of the students they redistrict.
> Which means another boundary change in a few
> years. If our current school board had the sense
> God gave a goose, they would have known that.
We've spoken to the school board staff since they've been through this before. They say its always contentious yet it always works out in the end. The most recent nearby redistricting was for Colvin Run elementary. GF parents were in an uproar over moving into a beautiful new elementary school OUT OF dumpy Great Falls elementary. There were articles in the paper, everyone was trying to sue the county - Now all is well...
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Why don't South Lakes parents want a magnet to
> attract more high performing students?
As TM said, all people want is a regular community school that draws from our local community. Rectify what was dismantled by previous boards. Rebalance what was previously balanced.
> redistricting South Lakes still won't get those
> kids. They won't go to South Lakes with a good
> reason. They have the brains, and the money, to
> go elsewhere. The parents can pupil place, send
> them to private school, or move.
People may pupil place or even choose private, initially, but the travel costs/hassles and tuition costs will prove a barrier to many. Eventually others will acquiese especially once they see their neighbors kids go and happily adjust. It's happened time and time again. The kids are fine - it's the parents that have the issues.
They won't move - good luck selling your house in this market!
> like being forced to do things. They tend to
> resist, mightily. South Lakes will be very lucky
> if they get half of the students they redistrict.
> Which means another boundary change in a few
> years. If our current school board had the sense
> God gave a goose, they would have known that.
We've spoken to the school board staff since they've been through this before. They say its always contentious yet it always works out in the end. The most recent nearby redistricting was for Colvin Run elementary. GF parents were in an uproar over moving into a beautiful new elementary school OUT OF dumpy Great Falls elementary. There were articles in the paper, everyone was trying to sue the county - Now all is well...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:53PM
What IB graduates do you know that went to a university abroad? None of the colleges I listed before are outside the U.S. My friends who aren’t doing the Diploma program are doing so because they don’t want to do the CAS hours, the Extended Essay or TOK. I never meet anyone who said, “I have the time to do IB, but I really want to go to a good school in the U.S. I mean with an IB diploma you can only get into, like, Princeton.”
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 02, 2007 05:57PM
Can someone tell me what this means...
> Rectify what was dismantled by previous boards. Rebalance what was previously balanced.
> Rectify what was dismantled by previous boards. Rebalance what was previously balanced.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 06:03PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> It won't happen in Vienna because all the small
> houses are being torn down and very attractive,
> old fashion looking, houses are being put in their
> place and selling for twice the price.
It's not happening everywhere in Vienna and the Yeonas built ranches have not appreciated 400% in the last few years.
> Unfortunately for Reston, your HOA will
> not permit new, attractive homes, in place of
> small, unattractive homes.
When a developer wants to redevelop an entire one of Reston's neighborhoods, we'll find out if you hypothesis applies. Right now the prices of existing houses are too high and the zoning densities too low for that too happen.
The Vienna Town Council lets the market work? You can't be serious. They have the worst anti-growth, anti-business reputation is Northern Virgina. Only Lederer in the City of Fairfax is worse.
> I use the term White Flight for two reasons.
> First, look at the chart of enrollment decline at
> South Lakes. Whites left.
Whites families didn't leave. The kid graduated. Mom and Dad only had 1 kid (ZPG) and Mom and Dad are still living here.
Did the Capaldos leave to get way from Railly, that was one reason, the spoiled brat across the street was another. Did the Adkins move to get their younger son away from a baseball coach who abused their older, high performing son. Yup. [When are Bruce and Linda going to upgrade that sorry situation? We're waiting.]
Are there 700 of these kinds of stories? Don't think so.
> The other groups
> remained relatively stable.
Thus no massive influx of minorities as was seen in cities that actually experience "white flight."
> Second, when IB was
> instituted, first at Stuart and Mount Vernon, Dr.
> Nancy Sprague, assistant superintendent in charge
> of instruction,
Like she knows what she's talking about? She got a PhD in education, like that requires some intellectual heavy lifting. Her PhD isn't in urban affairs, urban planning or demographics. How ignorant and reckless of her.
> If you would
> prefer to call it white leaving, rather than white
> flight, be my guest.
I'd rather call it what it is: empty nest syndrome enhance by a very attractive community for a maturing affluent population that looks to be retiring in place instead of migrating to Arizona or Florida.
The quality of your analysis can be much higher and less ideological. I know it can. You know I don't pretend that either Reston or SL is perfect. We can have better exchanges than this.
thanks for using the proper adjectival form of that party's name.;-)
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> It won't happen in Vienna because all the small
> houses are being torn down and very attractive,
> old fashion looking, houses are being put in their
> place and selling for twice the price.
It's not happening everywhere in Vienna and the Yeonas built ranches have not appreciated 400% in the last few years.
> Unfortunately for Reston, your HOA will
> not permit new, attractive homes, in place of
> small, unattractive homes.
When a developer wants to redevelop an entire one of Reston's neighborhoods, we'll find out if you hypothesis applies. Right now the prices of existing houses are too high and the zoning densities too low for that too happen.
The Vienna Town Council lets the market work? You can't be serious. They have the worst anti-growth, anti-business reputation is Northern Virgina. Only Lederer in the City of Fairfax is worse.
> I use the term White Flight for two reasons.
> First, look at the chart of enrollment decline at
> South Lakes. Whites left.
Whites families didn't leave. The kid graduated. Mom and Dad only had 1 kid (ZPG) and Mom and Dad are still living here.
Did the Capaldos leave to get way from Railly, that was one reason, the spoiled brat across the street was another. Did the Adkins move to get their younger son away from a baseball coach who abused their older, high performing son. Yup. [When are Bruce and Linda going to upgrade that sorry situation? We're waiting.]
Are there 700 of these kinds of stories? Don't think so.
> The other groups
> remained relatively stable.
Thus no massive influx of minorities as was seen in cities that actually experience "white flight."
> Second, when IB was
> instituted, first at Stuart and Mount Vernon, Dr.
> Nancy Sprague, assistant superintendent in charge
> of instruction,
Like she knows what she's talking about? She got a PhD in education, like that requires some intellectual heavy lifting. Her PhD isn't in urban affairs, urban planning or demographics. How ignorant and reckless of her.
> If you would
> prefer to call it white leaving, rather than white
> flight, be my guest.
I'd rather call it what it is: empty nest syndrome enhance by a very attractive community for a maturing affluent population that looks to be retiring in place instead of migrating to Arizona or Florida.
The quality of your analysis can be much higher and less ideological. I know it can. You know I don't pretend that either Reston or SL is perfect. We can have better exchanges than this.
thanks for using the proper adjectival form of that party's name.;-)
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 06:08PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you saying that starter homes, which I assume
> you mean condos and townhouses, are more expensive
> in Reston than Vienna and McLean?
I meant townhouses and small singles that families used to move into in Reston 20 years ago and McLean 40 years ago. Not condos. How many young families of modest means have moved into McLean at any time in the last 30 years?
> That Reston is
> an easier commute to Tysons and downtown than
> Vienna and McLean.
Getting to the clubs downtown on Saturday night, yeah it is.
> You're smarter than this.
No really that as good as I get.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you saying that starter homes, which I assume
> you mean condos and townhouses, are more expensive
> in Reston than Vienna and McLean?
I meant townhouses and small singles that families used to move into in Reston 20 years ago and McLean 40 years ago. Not condos. How many young families of modest means have moved into McLean at any time in the last 30 years?
> That Reston is
> an easier commute to Tysons and downtown than
> Vienna and McLean.
Getting to the clubs downtown on Saturday night, yeah it is.
> You're smarter than this.
No really that as good as I get.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 02, 2007 06:12PM
All of this talk about a magnet school is a waste of time. There are currently only 373 open seats betweeen all of the schools in the boundary study, accounting for the extra room at South Lakes and the overages at Chantilly and Westfield. That's not much room for a magnet school. Redistricting will either happen or not. Election outcomes influence this greatly.
All of this talk about IB/AP is pointless. They're both good. If South Lakes does not implement AP, pupil placement is an option that will be exercised and this will defeat the purpose of redistricting. It's that simple.
Vienna is very nice!
All of this talk about IB/AP is pointless. They're both good. If South Lakes does not implement AP, pupil placement is an option that will be exercised and this will defeat the purpose of redistricting. It's that simple.
Vienna is very nice!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 06:53PM
>>>>The number of teachers assigned a school is the product of the number of kids in the school. There are other factors but it starts there.
With profound underenrollment, such as we have at South Lakes, they had to drop a significant number of classes, e.g. ASL as a language class, economics was dropped, Advanced accounting is a on-line course. Other parents can list other courses that Oakton has but our kids don't.
I also know that underenrollment is one reason that the kid with the reading problem was being remediated by a science teacher instead of a teacher certified in reading problems.<<<
All of that could be changed. Stu could get extra money for South Lakes so that they could have more teachers and more classes. I'm sure that voters would find that preferable to redistricting. Every class at South Lakes could have 20 students, or even fewer. That's up to the school board to allocate funds. Small schools can have some real advantages, depending on who is representing their needs.
With profound underenrollment, such as we have at South Lakes, they had to drop a significant number of classes, e.g. ASL as a language class, economics was dropped, Advanced accounting is a on-line course. Other parents can list other courses that Oakton has but our kids don't.
I also know that underenrollment is one reason that the kid with the reading problem was being remediated by a science teacher instead of a teacher certified in reading problems.<<<
All of that could be changed. Stu could get extra money for South Lakes so that they could have more teachers and more classes. I'm sure that voters would find that preferable to redistricting. Every class at South Lakes could have 20 students, or even fewer. That's up to the school board to allocate funds. Small schools can have some real advantages, depending on who is representing their needs.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 02, 2007 06:58PM
You really think anyone not involved would actually vote for that? They wouldn't even vote to increase the sales tax by a half a cent so we could get some potholes fixed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 06:58PM
>>>How many young families of modest means have moved into McLean at any time in the last 30 years?<<<
You might be surprised. Asians are now occupying the smaller houses in McLean and Vienna. They are also renting apartments in McLean. Why? The schools. Asians move into neighborhoods with good schools. They will live in small house, or an apartment, if that's what they have to do to get into Langley school district. I know several Asian families who own homes in Maryland but rent apartments in McLean so that their kids go to Longfellow GT and (they hope) to TJ.
You might be surprised. Asians are now occupying the smaller houses in McLean and Vienna. They are also renting apartments in McLean. Why? The schools. Asians move into neighborhoods with good schools. They will live in small house, or an apartment, if that's what they have to do to get into Langley school district. I know several Asian families who own homes in Maryland but rent apartments in McLean so that their kids go to Longfellow GT and (they hope) to TJ.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:00PM
Nobody has to vote for more money for South Lakes. The FCPS budget is HUGE, large enough to send a few more bucks to South Lakes. OR, they could even cut the administration which out numbers teachers 2 to 1.
I agree, no one votes to raise their own taxes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:00PM by Neen.
I agree, no one votes to raise their own taxes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:00PM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:02PM
Word is correct. Vienna is very nice. He's also correct when he says that IB and AP don't matter because the school board as it is now constituted, will do whatever they want to do. Only the election can change that. This current school board couldn't care less what the people want in their schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:15PM
Why would people retire in place in Reston, but no place else in the county? They wouldn't. That's not the reason why your schools are under enrolled. They're under enrolled because Reston has decided to be a place for singles, and low income housing. Cathy Hudgins has worked very hard, along with Connelly, to put more and more low incoming housing (oops, I forget to use her word for it, 'affordable housing') into Reston. I can only assume that is what Restonians want, or they wouldn't vote for Cathy and Connelly in overwhelming numbers. Reston association has done nothing to attract families to Reston. That's why families aren't there!
Liberals in Reston want more and more low incoming housing, more and more condos and townhouses, and they don't want any new single family homes built. Then whine when school populations drop,'diversity' increases to the point where families don't want to move there. You can't have it both ways. You can't force people to go to school there just because Reston has decided to become a haven for low income people and singles, without family friendly homes. People in Reston CHOSE that. People outside of Reston did not. Restonians can't expect the rest of the county to support their choices by sending their kids to Reston schools to fill up the under enrollment CAUSED by Reston policies.
Liberals in Reston want more and more low incoming housing, more and more condos and townhouses, and they don't want any new single family homes built. Then whine when school populations drop,'diversity' increases to the point where families don't want to move there. You can't have it both ways. You can't force people to go to school there just because Reston has decided to become a haven for low income people and singles, without family friendly homes. People in Reston CHOSE that. People outside of Reston did not. Restonians can't expect the rest of the county to support their choices by sending their kids to Reston schools to fill up the under enrollment CAUSED by Reston policies.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Got your number
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:15PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Nobody has to vote for more money for South Lakes. The FCPS budget is HUGE, >large enough to send a few more bucks to South Lakes. OR, they could even cut >the administration which out numbers teachers 2 to 1.
>I agree, no one votes to raise their own taxes.>
>Word is correct. Vienna is very nice. He's also
> correct when he says that IB and AP don't matter
> because the school board as it is now constituted,
> will do whatever they want to do. Only the
> election can change that. This current school
> board couldn't care less what the people want in
> their schools.
Neen, I mean Christine, what worries me about your campaign and you possibly being elected is that you seem very naive about school funding. The school board should just throw some extra funds to SLHS? Do you really believe you can cut admin to throw SL a "bone?" Please give us a little more credit...
And you're going to come in with your pearls and fix all that's wrong with FCPS.
I know stoprd believes that you care about them but you too have an underlying agenda.
Admit who you really are...
-------------------------------------------------------
>Nobody has to vote for more money for South Lakes. The FCPS budget is HUGE, >large enough to send a few more bucks to South Lakes. OR, they could even cut >the administration which out numbers teachers 2 to 1.
>I agree, no one votes to raise their own taxes.>
>Word is correct. Vienna is very nice. He's also
> correct when he says that IB and AP don't matter
> because the school board as it is now constituted,
> will do whatever they want to do. Only the
> election can change that. This current school
> board couldn't care less what the people want in
> their schools.
Neen, I mean Christine, what worries me about your campaign and you possibly being elected is that you seem very naive about school funding. The school board should just throw some extra funds to SLHS? Do you really believe you can cut admin to throw SL a "bone?" Please give us a little more credit...
And you're going to come in with your pearls and fix all that's wrong with FCPS.
I know stoprd believes that you care about them but you too have an underlying agenda.
Admit who you really are...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:20PM
Thomas,
The exact same thing happens in Vienna, most people here age in place. My street has houses that are 35 years old and at least half are original owners. That same thing is true all over Vienna and McLean and Oakton. The entire county is aging. The difference is, Reston doesn't attract any new families, as other areas do, because Reston won't allow new single family homes to be built, nor will they allow substantial changes to the single family homes that exist. Families today do not want to live in 1960's style houses. Reston has supported LOTS of growth in condos, apartments, and townhouses, none of which provide more students. Reston CHOSE to go with more single people, fewer families. You got what you voted for. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect other people, outside Reston to pay for choices that they never made.
The exact same thing happens in Vienna, most people here age in place. My street has houses that are 35 years old and at least half are original owners. That same thing is true all over Vienna and McLean and Oakton. The entire county is aging. The difference is, Reston doesn't attract any new families, as other areas do, because Reston won't allow new single family homes to be built, nor will they allow substantial changes to the single family homes that exist. Families today do not want to live in 1960's style houses. Reston has supported LOTS of growth in condos, apartments, and townhouses, none of which provide more students. Reston CHOSE to go with more single people, fewer families. You got what you voted for. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect other people, outside Reston to pay for choices that they never made.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:21PM
Got your number Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Admit who you really are...
wrong again and not even a good guess
-------------------------------------------------------
> Admit who you really are...
wrong again and not even a good guess
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:24PM
I'm pretty sure I know who Neen is, and it's not Christine....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:25PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vienna is very nice!
I'm sure you'd also say so is Reston, its different from Vienna but its nice. only Neen wants to argue this which is a waste of time.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vienna is very nice!
I'm sure you'd also say so is Reston, its different from Vienna but its nice. only Neen wants to argue this which is a waste of time.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:26PM
Sorry guy, I am most definitely not Christine. I would never choose to live in Reston. She did.
Ask Thomas if I am Christine. Or anyone else. It's quite obvious to all, but you, that I am not.
I have no under lying agenda, other than I care about kids. I live in Vienna. I CHOSE to live in Vienna, not Reston.
If you think that Stu Gibson is going to do anything for Reston that he hasn't had time to do in the last 12 years, please vote for him. If you think that someone else, someone not wedded to the system, and the continuation of the status quo, might do something to help South Lakes and the other schools in REston with abysmal scores, I suggest that you not vote for him. Since he's never done a thing for Vienna schools, and has ignored the wishes of the voters in Vienna for TWELVE years, I intend to vote for Christine. But that does NOT make me Christine. See the difference Slick?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:28PM by Neen.
Ask Thomas if I am Christine. Or anyone else. It's quite obvious to all, but you, that I am not.
I have no under lying agenda, other than I care about kids. I live in Vienna. I CHOSE to live in Vienna, not Reston.
If you think that Stu Gibson is going to do anything for Reston that he hasn't had time to do in the last 12 years, please vote for him. If you think that someone else, someone not wedded to the system, and the continuation of the status quo, might do something to help South Lakes and the other schools in REston with abysmal scores, I suggest that you not vote for him. Since he's never done a thing for Vienna schools, and has ignored the wishes of the voters in Vienna for TWELVE years, I intend to vote for Christine. But that does NOT make me Christine. See the difference Slick?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:28PM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:28PM
Thanks South Lakes Pyramid Parent.
BTW, how do you know who I am? Heck, I'm not even sure who I am most days, other than not Christine.
BTW, how do you know who I am? Heck, I'm not even sure who I am most days, other than not Christine.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:29PM
Disregard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:43PM by SLVerity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:43PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:30PM
I'm not arguing that anyplace is 'nicer' than any other place. I'm arguing for choice. I happen to think it's a good thing to have choices and to exercise choices and not be forced by the government to accept choices we did not make.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:33PM
It wasn't my chart. Yes, Asian population has gone up about 100 students in the last 15 years. I suspect the same is true in every high school in the county, with the percentage increasing even more at TJ (prior to affirmative action) and Langley, McLean, Oakton, etc.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:35PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would people retire in place in Reston, but no
> place else in the county? They wouldn't. That's
> not the reason why your schools are under
> enrolled. They're under enrolled because Reston
> has decided to be a place for singles, and low
> income housing. Cathy Hudgins has worked very
> hard, along with Connelly, to put more and more
> low incoming housing (oops, I forget to use her
> word for it, 'affordable housing') into Reston. I
> can only assume that is what Restonians want, or
> they wouldn't vote for Cathy and Connelly in
> overwhelming numbers. Reston association has done
> nothing to attract families to Reston. That's why
> families aren't there!
I guess that's why we have around 20 swimming pools, numerous tennis courts, nature trails, nature tots, extensive summer camp programs, etc. Note that the school board moved North Point to Herndon. That is the problem with our school and Herndon has benefited.
>
> Liberals in Reston want more and more low incoming
> housing, more and more condos and townhouses, and
> they don't want any new single family homes built.
> Then whine when school populations
> drop,'diversity' increases to the point where
> families don't want to move there. You can't have
> it both ways. You can't force people to go to
> school there just because Reston has decided to
> become a haven for low income people and singles,
> without family friendly homes. People in Reston
> CHOSE that. People outside of Reston did not.
> Restonians can't expect the rest of the county to
> support their choices by sending their kids to
> Reston schools to fill up the under enrollment
> CAUSED by Reston policies.
As stated many times before, we are not a town and we don't get a vote on housing decisions made by the board of supervisors. I am a conservative and have to live with the messes that do-gooders create. How many liberals are on the school board and BOS vs. conservatives? This county has trended liberal, not just Reston, and Gerry Connelly has backed up Hudgins all the way.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:44PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would people retire in place in Reston, but no
> place else in the county? They wouldn't. That's
> not the reason why your schools are under
> enrolled. They're under enrolled because Reston
> has decided to be a place for singles, and low
> income housing. Cathy Hudgins has worked very
> hard, along with Connelly, to put more and more
> low incoming housing (oops, I forget to use her
> word for it, 'affordable housing') into Reston. I
> can only assume that is what Restonians want, or
> they wouldn't vote for Cathy and Connelly in
> overwhelming numbers. Reston association has done
> nothing to attract families to Reston. That's why
> families aren't there!
I guess that's why we have around 20 swimming pools, numerous tennis courts, nature trails, nature tots, extensive summer camp programs, etc. Note that the school board moved North Point to Herndon. That is the problem with our school and Herndon has benefited.
>
> Liberals in Reston want more and more low incoming
> housing, more and more condos and townhouses, and
> they don't want any new single family homes built.
> Then whine when school populations
> drop,'diversity' increases to the point where
> families don't want to move there. You can't have
> it both ways. You can't force people to go to
> school there just because Reston has decided to
> become a haven for low income people and singles,
> without family friendly homes. People in Reston
> CHOSE that. People outside of Reston did not.
> Restonians can't expect the rest of the county to
> support their choices by sending their kids to
> Reston schools to fill up the under enrollment
> CAUSED by Reston policies.
As stated many times before, we are not a town and we don't get a vote on housing decisions made by the board of supervisors. I am a conservative and have to live with the messes that do-gooders create. How many liberals are on the school board and BOS vs. conservatives? This county has trended liberal, not just Reston, and Gerry Connelly has backed up Hudgins all the way.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:44PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:36PM
>>>Admit who you really are...<<<
Sure thing, you go first. Hahahaha.......how many different names have you had on this forum? Don't you have a campaign, or something like a campaign, to run?
Sure thing, you go first. Hahahaha.......how many different names have you had on this forum? Don't you have a campaign, or something like a campaign, to run?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:38PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> The exact same thing happens in Vienna, most
> people here age in place. My street has houses
> that are 35 years old and at least half are
> original owners. That same thing is true all over
> Vienna and McLean and Oakton. The entire county is
> aging.
Please. How many dinks and sorority sisters and frat boys have bought the homes in McLean and Vienna. Not nearly as many as I see in Reston. McLean and Vienna went through what Reston is experiencing except it was 25 years ago.
> The difference is, Reston doesn't attract
> any new families, as other areas do, because
> Reston won't allow new single family homes to be
> built, nor will they allow substantial changes to
> the single family homes that exist.
All the last of the SFD lots were built out in the 1990s in North Point but young families couldn't afford them. they went to an older demographic. The young families went to Loudoun, to south Riding and Ashburn because they could get a larger house for the same or a lower house.
Families today
> do not want to live in 1960's style houses.
the single family house built in Reston in the 1980s and 90s weren't the California style I think your're refering to as 1960 houses. Instead they were federal style and adaptations of nantucket styles instead of the tired and trite georgians that were rightly referred to as Mcmansions. We may not have the same taste in archetectural styles, Neen, but that had nothing to with the lower numbers of kids at South Lakes.
> Reston has supported LOTS of growth in condos,
> apartments, and townhouses, none of which provide
> more students. Reston CHOSE to go with more
> single people, fewer families.
Those choices happened in the 1960s and were implemented over the next 40 years.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> The exact same thing happens in Vienna, most
> people here age in place. My street has houses
> that are 35 years old and at least half are
> original owners. That same thing is true all over
> Vienna and McLean and Oakton. The entire county is
> aging.
Please. How many dinks and sorority sisters and frat boys have bought the homes in McLean and Vienna. Not nearly as many as I see in Reston. McLean and Vienna went through what Reston is experiencing except it was 25 years ago.
> The difference is, Reston doesn't attract
> any new families, as other areas do, because
> Reston won't allow new single family homes to be
> built, nor will they allow substantial changes to
> the single family homes that exist.
All the last of the SFD lots were built out in the 1990s in North Point but young families couldn't afford them. they went to an older demographic. The young families went to Loudoun, to south Riding and Ashburn because they could get a larger house for the same or a lower house.
Families today
> do not want to live in 1960's style houses.
the single family house built in Reston in the 1980s and 90s weren't the California style I think your're refering to as 1960 houses. Instead they were federal style and adaptations of nantucket styles instead of the tired and trite georgians that were rightly referred to as Mcmansions. We may not have the same taste in archetectural styles, Neen, but that had nothing to with the lower numbers of kids at South Lakes.
> Reston has supported LOTS of growth in condos,
> apartments, and townhouses, none of which provide
> more students. Reston CHOSE to go with more
> single people, fewer families.
Those choices happened in the 1960s and were implemented over the next 40 years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:40PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> The exact same thing happens in Vienna, most
> people here age in place. My street has houses
> that are 35 years old and at least half are
> original owners. That same thing is true all over
> Vienna and McLean and Oakton. The entire county is
> aging. The difference is, Reston doesn't attract
> any new families, as other areas do, because
> Reston won't allow new single family homes to be
> built, nor will they allow substantial changes to
> the single family homes that exist. Families today
> do not want to live in 1960's style houses.
> Reston has supported LOTS of growth in condos,
> apartments, and townhouses, none of which provide
> more students. Reston CHOSE to go with more
> single people, fewer families. You got what you
> voted for. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't
> expect other people, outside Reston to pay for
> choices that they never made.
Neen, when did you become an authority on Reston? There are numerous homes in Reston that have undergone substantial renovation, just like in Vienna. RA is allowing the changes. Remember also that those single people pay a wealth of taxes without draining the system of services. That allows your kids and mine a good education. The solution is to widen the boundary feeding into SL. It's not complicated.
Vienna is an incorporated town and they have consistently voted to keep out high density and low income housing. We are not a town and don't have that luxury.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> The exact same thing happens in Vienna, most
> people here age in place. My street has houses
> that are 35 years old and at least half are
> original owners. That same thing is true all over
> Vienna and McLean and Oakton. The entire county is
> aging. The difference is, Reston doesn't attract
> any new families, as other areas do, because
> Reston won't allow new single family homes to be
> built, nor will they allow substantial changes to
> the single family homes that exist. Families today
> do not want to live in 1960's style houses.
> Reston has supported LOTS of growth in condos,
> apartments, and townhouses, none of which provide
> more students. Reston CHOSE to go with more
> single people, fewer families. You got what you
> voted for. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't
> expect other people, outside Reston to pay for
> choices that they never made.
Neen, when did you become an authority on Reston? There are numerous homes in Reston that have undergone substantial renovation, just like in Vienna. RA is allowing the changes. Remember also that those single people pay a wealth of taxes without draining the system of services. That allows your kids and mine a good education. The solution is to widen the boundary feeding into SL. It's not complicated.
Vienna is an incorporated town and they have consistently voted to keep out high density and low income housing. We are not a town and don't have that luxury.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:40PM
Reston is nice too! I do like all of the paths and wooded areas and town center. Not too high on the control freaks at RA.
Also, I do agree with Neen one of the reasons that people are not moving to Reston is the schools. And I don't think they're think of South Lakes, instead they're looking at what's coming up first... the elementary schools. And there are some holes there.
I would bet there is a big price difference depending on which side of Fox Mill Rd you're on. On one side Dogwood, the other Fox Mill. The homes are comparable.
Also, I do agree with Neen one of the reasons that people are not moving to Reston is the schools. And I don't think they're think of South Lakes, instead they're looking at what's coming up first... the elementary schools. And there are some holes there.
I would bet there is a big price difference depending on which side of Fox Mill Rd you're on. On one side Dogwood, the other Fox Mill. The homes are comparable.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:40PM
SL,
Of course you get to vote on housing decisions in Reston. You have an HOA, and you can certainly vote to throw out Hudgins and Connelly. Why do you think Vienna and McLean and Oakton have avoided so much low incoming housing, apartments and condos? Reston gets them because Restonians vote for those people who are in bed with developers, and because the majority of people in Reston want that kind of development. Large liberal groups in Reston control it and they want more low incoming housing. How many more units are now in the pipeline for REston? 3,000? If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it!
More later............
Of course you get to vote on housing decisions in Reston. You have an HOA, and you can certainly vote to throw out Hudgins and Connelly. Why do you think Vienna and McLean and Oakton have avoided so much low incoming housing, apartments and condos? Reston gets them because Restonians vote for those people who are in bed with developers, and because the majority of people in Reston want that kind of development. Large liberal groups in Reston control it and they want more low incoming housing. How many more units are now in the pipeline for REston? 3,000? If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it!
More later............
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:48PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone tell me what this means...
>
> > Rectify what was dismantled by previous boards.
> Rebalance what was previously balanced.
In the 1980s Lou Zone took North Point which was part of Reston and gave it to HHS to help increase enrollment at langley, mcLean, madison and marshall in a series of domino moves even more intricate than we're looking at now.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone tell me what this means...
>
> > Rectify what was dismantled by previous boards.
> Rebalance what was previously balanced.
In the 1980s Lou Zone took North Point which was part of Reston and gave it to HHS to help increase enrollment at langley, mcLean, madison and marshall in a series of domino moves even more intricate than we're looking at now.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:52PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL,
> Of course you get to vote on housing decisions in
> Reston. You have an HOA, and you can certainly
> vote to throw out Hudgins and Connelly. Why do
> you think Vienna and McLean and Oakton have
> avoided so much low incoming housing, apartments
> and condos? Reston gets them because Restonians
> vote for those people who are in bed with
> developers, and because the majority of people in
> Reston want that kind of development. Large
> liberal groups in Reston control it and they want
> more low incoming housing. How many more units
> are now in the pipeline for REston? 3,000? If
> they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it!
>
> More later............
Au contraire? Lots of decisions have been made without any input from the community. Hudgins tried to ram housing through recently and she is being challenged, finally. She and Gerald Connelly completely ignored an expensive study done regarding the redevelopment of Lake Anne. The study recommended redeveloping an apartment complex into luxury condominiums. This was backed by everyone in that area. She and Connelly went behind their backs and purchased the complex so that it could remain affordable. We had no say in it. And the liberals who support her are all old and are not invested in the schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL,
> Of course you get to vote on housing decisions in
> Reston. You have an HOA, and you can certainly
> vote to throw out Hudgins and Connelly. Why do
> you think Vienna and McLean and Oakton have
> avoided so much low incoming housing, apartments
> and condos? Reston gets them because Restonians
> vote for those people who are in bed with
> developers, and because the majority of people in
> Reston want that kind of development. Large
> liberal groups in Reston control it and they want
> more low incoming housing. How many more units
> are now in the pipeline for REston? 3,000? If
> they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it!
>
> More later............
Au contraire? Lots of decisions have been made without any input from the community. Hudgins tried to ram housing through recently and she is being challenged, finally. She and Gerald Connelly completely ignored an expensive study done regarding the redevelopment of Lake Anne. The study recommended redeveloping an apartment complex into luxury condominiums. This was backed by everyone in that area. She and Connelly went behind their backs and purchased the complex so that it could remain affordable. We had no say in it. And the liberals who support her are all old and are not invested in the schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 07:52PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would bet there is a big price difference
> depending on which side of Fox Mill Rd you're on.
> On one side Dogwood, the other Fox Mill. The homes
> are comparable.
You lose. Check the assessments and the sales prices reported on the assessment sheets.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:53PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would bet there is a big price difference
> depending on which side of Fox Mill Rd you're on.
> On one side Dogwood, the other Fox Mill. The homes
> are comparable.
You lose. Check the assessments and the sales prices reported on the assessment sheets.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 07:53PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 02, 2007 08:00PM
I will do that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 08:01PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Au contraire? Lots of decisions have been made
> without any input from the community.
those houses were the implementation of a comprehensive plan that was adopted 40 yrs ago. The County could not have said no.
Notice that there isn't alot sfd's in tysons either and yet the boundaries around it had to be radically changed in the 80s to adjust to the changing dynamics of McLean, Madison, Langley and marshall.
It's Reston's time to go through the same process but this time we can reunite a community that was wrongfully partitioned by Lou Zone.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Au contraire? Lots of decisions have been made
> without any input from the community.
those houses were the implementation of a comprehensive plan that was adopted 40 yrs ago. The County could not have said no.
Notice that there isn't alot sfd's in tysons either and yet the boundaries around it had to be radically changed in the 80s to adjust to the changing dynamics of McLean, Madison, Langley and marshall.
It's Reston's time to go through the same process but this time we can reunite a community that was wrongfully partitioned by Lou Zone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 02, 2007 08:05PM
So doesn't the above prove that one of the major arguments (home value) is not relavent?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 02, 2007 08:11PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Au contraire? Lots of decisions have been made
> > without any input from the community.
>
> those houses were the implementation of a
> comprehensive plan that was adopted 40 yrs ago.
> The County could not have said no.
>
> Notice that there isn't alot sfd's in tysons
> either and yet the boundaries around it had to be
> radically changed in the 80s to adjust to the
> changing dynamics of McLean, Madison, Langley and
> marshall.
>
> It's Reston's time to go through the same process
> but this time we can reunite a community that was
> wrongfully partitioned by Lou Zone.
I was speaking of the Lawyers Road Park and Ride.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Au contraire? Lots of decisions have been made
> > without any input from the community.
>
> those houses were the implementation of a
> comprehensive plan that was adopted 40 yrs ago.
> The County could not have said no.
>
> Notice that there isn't alot sfd's in tysons
> either and yet the boundaries around it had to be
> radically changed in the 80s to adjust to the
> changing dynamics of McLean, Madison, Langley and
> marshall.
>
> It's Reston's time to go through the same process
> but this time we can reunite a community that was
> wrongfully partitioned by Lou Zone.
I was speaking of the Lawyers Road Park and Ride.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 08:27PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would people retire in place in Reston, but no
> place else in the county? They wouldn't. That's
> not the reason why your schools are under
> enrolled. They're under enrolled because Reston
> has decided to be a place for singles, and low
> income housing. Cathy Hudgins has worked very
> hard, along with Connelly, to put more and more
> low incoming housing (oops, I forget to use her
> word for it, 'affordable housing') into Reston. I
> can only assume that is what Restonians want, or
> they wouldn't vote for Cathy and Connelly in
> overwhelming numbers. Reston association has done
> nothing to attract families to Reston. That's why
> families aren't there!
>
> Liberals in Reston want more and more low incoming
> housing, more and more condos and townhouses, and
> they don't want any new single family homes built.
> Then whine when school populations
> drop,'diversity' increases to the point where
> families don't want to move there. You can't have
> it both ways. You can't force people to go to
> school there just because Reston has decided to
> become a haven for low income people and singles,
> without family friendly homes. People in Reston
> CHOSE that. People outside of Reston did not.
> Restonians can't expect the rest of the county to
> support their choices by sending their kids to
> Reston schools to fill up the under enrollment
> CAUSED by Reston policies.
Ok enough Reston bashing. If this is the motivation of the typical Arakelian supporter, I can take a trip on tuesday and a pox on both of their houses.
Take your facists non-sense and stick it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 08:55PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would people retire in place in Reston, but no
> place else in the county? They wouldn't. That's
> not the reason why your schools are under
> enrolled. They're under enrolled because Reston
> has decided to be a place for singles, and low
> income housing. Cathy Hudgins has worked very
> hard, along with Connelly, to put more and more
> low incoming housing (oops, I forget to use her
> word for it, 'affordable housing') into Reston. I
> can only assume that is what Restonians want, or
> they wouldn't vote for Cathy and Connelly in
> overwhelming numbers. Reston association has done
> nothing to attract families to Reston. That's why
> families aren't there!
>
> Liberals in Reston want more and more low incoming
> housing, more and more condos and townhouses, and
> they don't want any new single family homes built.
> Then whine when school populations
> drop,'diversity' increases to the point where
> families don't want to move there. You can't have
> it both ways. You can't force people to go to
> school there just because Reston has decided to
> become a haven for low income people and singles,
> without family friendly homes. People in Reston
> CHOSE that. People outside of Reston did not.
> Restonians can't expect the rest of the county to
> support their choices by sending their kids to
> Reston schools to fill up the under enrollment
> CAUSED by Reston policies.
Ok enough Reston bashing. If this is the motivation of the typical Arakelian supporter, I can take a trip on tuesday and a pox on both of their houses.
Take your facists non-sense and stick it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2007 08:55PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:39PM
nope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So doesn't the above prove that one of the major
> arguments (home value) is not relavent?
That's mostly right.
Homes values over the $500,000 are driven mostly by conspicuous consumption, "snob appeal". If the real estate agent can use some perceived marginal differential in SATs to get a gullible prospect to buy her listing and not her competitors, she'll use it. The vacant lot behind the house the broker is selling is always supposed to be a park, too. (the comprehensive plan has said apartments for decades but who cares. The broker says whatever it takes to make the sale. Gotta have that commission.) Its nonsense but some folks fall for it.
Home prices in FFX are driven buy a huge imbalance between jobs and housing. FFX has been pursuing a policy of exclusionary zoning since at least 1956. There is a housing shortage of 79,000. Our children will not be able to afford to live here. After they get out of college, they have to double and triple up to carry the rent/mortgage unless they move back in with Mom.
Average density per square mile
City of Alexandria 8200
County of Arlington 7300
Fairfax County 2500.
Mix large numbers of well paid employees/buyers chasing an artificially constricted supply of houses, add the funny money of subprime jumbo lending and the prices rise 400% in months.
When the savings and loan debacle dried up the easy mortgage money in the late 80s, home prices fell 25-40%. Houses at the higher brackets fell further and stayed down longer.
Those factors have a much higher impact on home prices than statistically insignificant differences in SATs.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> So doesn't the above prove that one of the major
> arguments (home value) is not relavent?
That's mostly right.
Homes values over the $500,000 are driven mostly by conspicuous consumption, "snob appeal". If the real estate agent can use some perceived marginal differential in SATs to get a gullible prospect to buy her listing and not her competitors, she'll use it. The vacant lot behind the house the broker is selling is always supposed to be a park, too. (the comprehensive plan has said apartments for decades but who cares. The broker says whatever it takes to make the sale. Gotta have that commission.) Its nonsense but some folks fall for it.
Home prices in FFX are driven buy a huge imbalance between jobs and housing. FFX has been pursuing a policy of exclusionary zoning since at least 1956. There is a housing shortage of 79,000. Our children will not be able to afford to live here. After they get out of college, they have to double and triple up to carry the rent/mortgage unless they move back in with Mom.
Average density per square mile
City of Alexandria 8200
County of Arlington 7300
Fairfax County 2500.
Mix large numbers of well paid employees/buyers chasing an artificially constricted supply of houses, add the funny money of subprime jumbo lending and the prices rise 400% in months.
When the savings and loan debacle dried up the easy mortgage money in the late 80s, home prices fell 25-40%. Houses at the higher brackets fell further and stayed down longer.
Those factors have a much higher impact on home prices than statistically insignificant differences in SATs.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 02, 2007 09:59PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nope Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So doesn't the above prove that one of the
> major
> > arguments (home value) is not relavent?
>
> That's mostly right.
>
> Homes values over the $500,000 are driven mostly
> by conspicuous consumption, "snob appeal". If the
> real estate agent can use some perceived marginal
> differential in SATs to get a gullible prospect to
> buy her listing and not her competitors, she'll
> use it. The vacant lot behind the house the
> broker is selling is always supposed to be a park,
> too. (the comprehensive plan has said apartments
> for decades but who cares. The broker says
> whatever it takes to make the sale. Gotta have
> that commission.) Its nonsense but some folks fall
> for it.
>
> Home prices in FFX are driven buy a huge imbalance
> between jobs and housing. FFX has been pursuing a
> policy of exclusionary zoning since at least 1956.
> There is a housing shortage of 79,000. Our
> children will not be able to afford to live here.
> After they get out of college, they have to double
> and triple up to carry the rent/mortgage unless
> they move back in with Mom.
>
> Average density per square mile
>
> City of Alexandria 8200
>
> County of Arlington 7300
>
> Fairfax County 2500.
>
> Mix large numbers of well paid employees/buyers
> chasing an artificially constricted supply of
> houses, add the funny money of subprime jumbo
> lending and the prices rise 400% in months.
>
> When the savings and loan debacle dried up the
> easy mortgage money in the late 80s, home prices
> fell 25-40%. Houses at the higher brackets fell
> further and stayed down longer.
>
> Those factors have a much higher impact on home
> prices than statistically insignificant
> differences in SATs.
I have never thought that taking a real estate hit was a good reason to oppose redistricting. Even if true, it's not a convincing argument to anyone who doesn't live in the target neighborhods. I have to say, though, that people where I live are a little concerned about it, albeit off the record. I just don't think we'll see much honest discusion of it out in the open because of all the accusations of NIMBYism, etc.
Although it may be true that there are myriad other factors that influence the real estate market, having a house in a more desirable school district, and that includes elementary and middle schools, is always helpful to the seller. When we bought our home I had a well-worn print out of all stats of the FX Co. schools, and I wouldn't even look at houses that weren't in certain neighborhoods. I don't think that makes me racist or elitist. All things being equal, we wanted schools that seemed like good bets, and Fox Mill Elementary etc. sure looked good. It may be true that kids can get a great education in the Reston schools, but most of them don't look great on paper, and that's what a lot of people are going by. Based on talks with our parents, our school pyramid is one of the strongest draws in my neighborhood.
Again, I don't think real estate values should decide boundary changes, but you have to understand that it's a real issue and no amount of market-talk will eliminate it in people's minds. Maybe we can all agree that it might affect housing prices a little but it isn't going to matter to the school board, nor should it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> nope Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So doesn't the above prove that one of the
> major
> > arguments (home value) is not relavent?
>
> That's mostly right.
>
> Homes values over the $500,000 are driven mostly
> by conspicuous consumption, "snob appeal". If the
> real estate agent can use some perceived marginal
> differential in SATs to get a gullible prospect to
> buy her listing and not her competitors, she'll
> use it. The vacant lot behind the house the
> broker is selling is always supposed to be a park,
> too. (the comprehensive plan has said apartments
> for decades but who cares. The broker says
> whatever it takes to make the sale. Gotta have
> that commission.) Its nonsense but some folks fall
> for it.
>
> Home prices in FFX are driven buy a huge imbalance
> between jobs and housing. FFX has been pursuing a
> policy of exclusionary zoning since at least 1956.
> There is a housing shortage of 79,000. Our
> children will not be able to afford to live here.
> After they get out of college, they have to double
> and triple up to carry the rent/mortgage unless
> they move back in with Mom.
>
> Average density per square mile
>
> City of Alexandria 8200
>
> County of Arlington 7300
>
> Fairfax County 2500.
>
> Mix large numbers of well paid employees/buyers
> chasing an artificially constricted supply of
> houses, add the funny money of subprime jumbo
> lending and the prices rise 400% in months.
>
> When the savings and loan debacle dried up the
> easy mortgage money in the late 80s, home prices
> fell 25-40%. Houses at the higher brackets fell
> further and stayed down longer.
>
> Those factors have a much higher impact on home
> prices than statistically insignificant
> differences in SATs.
I have never thought that taking a real estate hit was a good reason to oppose redistricting. Even if true, it's not a convincing argument to anyone who doesn't live in the target neighborhods. I have to say, though, that people where I live are a little concerned about it, albeit off the record. I just don't think we'll see much honest discusion of it out in the open because of all the accusations of NIMBYism, etc.
Although it may be true that there are myriad other factors that influence the real estate market, having a house in a more desirable school district, and that includes elementary and middle schools, is always helpful to the seller. When we bought our home I had a well-worn print out of all stats of the FX Co. schools, and I wouldn't even look at houses that weren't in certain neighborhoods. I don't think that makes me racist or elitist. All things being equal, we wanted schools that seemed like good bets, and Fox Mill Elementary etc. sure looked good. It may be true that kids can get a great education in the Reston schools, but most of them don't look great on paper, and that's what a lot of people are going by. Based on talks with our parents, our school pyramid is one of the strongest draws in my neighborhood.
Again, I don't think real estate values should decide boundary changes, but you have to understand that it's a real issue and no amount of market-talk will eliminate it in people's minds. Maybe we can all agree that it might affect housing prices a little but it isn't going to matter to the school board, nor should it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 02, 2007 10:15PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again, I don't think real estate values should
> decide boundary changes, but you have to
> understand that it's a real issue.
OK ground truth this concept. the difference between Oakton & SL SATs is 50 points. How much more for the same house are you willing to pay for the higher SAT, $250,000, $500,000 $1 million?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again, I don't think real estate values should
> decide boundary changes, but you have to
> understand that it's a real issue.
OK ground truth this concept. the difference between Oakton & SL SATs is 50 points. How much more for the same house are you willing to pay for the higher SAT, $250,000, $500,000 $1 million?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:35AM
>>>We've spoken to the school board staff since they've been through this before. They say its always contentious yet it always works out in the end<<<
First, what else would they say? Second, what is school board staff? The school board has a staff? Or did you mean facilities staff? Of course those who support boundary changes will tell you that it always works out. The fact is, it doesn't always work. It never worked at Marshall. They've never gotten their enrollment over 1,300 after forcing many Vienna families to go there, or trying to force them. It didn't work. It didn't work at Mount Vernon either, where they did a beautiful renovation and it's still 792 under enrolled with projects that it will 1,000 under enrolled in 4 years. Higher income families have options and they exercise them.
But you might be right, enrollment could be up in 10 years. But I don't see how they're going to get anything close to 700 new students even 5 years out. If people won't initially go to South Lakes, their neighbors 5 years out won't either. Unless they make South Lakes more attractive to parents and students, (not facilities, no one cares, but academically attractive) BEFORE they redistrict, the boundary change is doomed. A critical mass must appear and they won't. Without the critical mass, there is no hope of convincing others to attend.
I have no idea why the staff thought this renovation would motivate people to attend South Lakes. Putting up doors instead of shower curtains is a good idea, real walls are nice too, but parents care far more about the students and staff in the building than the building itself. Staff should have known that and worked on what is offered inside the building before trying to force people to enroll.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:35AM by Neen.
First, what else would they say? Second, what is school board staff? The school board has a staff? Or did you mean facilities staff? Of course those who support boundary changes will tell you that it always works out. The fact is, it doesn't always work. It never worked at Marshall. They've never gotten their enrollment over 1,300 after forcing many Vienna families to go there, or trying to force them. It didn't work. It didn't work at Mount Vernon either, where they did a beautiful renovation and it's still 792 under enrolled with projects that it will 1,000 under enrolled in 4 years. Higher income families have options and they exercise them.
But you might be right, enrollment could be up in 10 years. But I don't see how they're going to get anything close to 700 new students even 5 years out. If people won't initially go to South Lakes, their neighbors 5 years out won't either. Unless they make South Lakes more attractive to parents and students, (not facilities, no one cares, but academically attractive) BEFORE they redistrict, the boundary change is doomed. A critical mass must appear and they won't. Without the critical mass, there is no hope of convincing others to attend.
I have no idea why the staff thought this renovation would motivate people to attend South Lakes. Putting up doors instead of shower curtains is a good idea, real walls are nice too, but parents care far more about the students and staff in the building than the building itself. Staff should have known that and worked on what is offered inside the building before trying to force people to enroll.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:35AM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:49AM
The differences in SATs are 50 points? That's a pretty big difference, between a 950 and 1000, or 1450 and 1500. Ask any kid. What percentage of students at South Lakes take the SAT? What percentage take it at Madison and Oakton? What percentage of students attend 4 year colleges after graduation? People looking to buy a house in a good school district look at all those things, and more.
What's the difference between SOL scores? How 'bout the behavior comparisons? Suspensions and expulsions? Assaults and drugs? When I compare Oakton and South Lakes and Madison, on this state website, the differences are striking. (Including 6 assaults on staff at South Lakes for two years running!) People moving in from out of state would certainly pay a premium to be in Oakton or Madison districts after comparing the schools. Perhaps that's why houses in those districts are advertised as such.
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
The problems at South Lakes must be fixed BEFORE students can be forced to enroll.
What's the difference between SOL scores? How 'bout the behavior comparisons? Suspensions and expulsions? Assaults and drugs? When I compare Oakton and South Lakes and Madison, on this state website, the differences are striking. (Including 6 assaults on staff at South Lakes for two years running!) People moving in from out of state would certainly pay a premium to be in Oakton or Madison districts after comparing the schools. Perhaps that's why houses in those districts are advertised as such.
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
The problems at South Lakes must be fixed BEFORE students can be forced to enroll.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:51AM
Foxmill parent,
Of course it makes a difference in house values and no one wants to lose money, particularly 10's of thousands of dollars, if not more. That's a perfectly legitimate reason for a home owner to oppose redistricting. Who wants to lose that kind of money? No one!
Of course it makes a difference in house values and no one wants to lose money, particularly 10's of thousands of dollars, if not more. That's a perfectly legitimate reason for a home owner to oppose redistricting. Who wants to lose that kind of money? No one!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 03, 2007 01:01AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no idea why the staff thought this
> renovation would motivate people to attend South
> Lakes. Putting up doors instead of shower
> curtains is a good idea,
they werent shower curtains they were beautiful fire retardant velvet! with reflectors!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no idea why the staff thought this
> renovation would motivate people to attend South
> Lakes. Putting up doors instead of shower
> curtains is a good idea,
they werent shower curtains they were beautiful fire retardant velvet! with reflectors!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 03, 2007 01:04AM
Thomas,
You asked how much it is worth. One family I know spent $300,000 to move from the South Lakes district to the Oakton district. They didn't want to move, they'd lived in Reston for 10 years and loved it. But their children were approaching middle school and they did not want them in Hughes and South Lakes. It was a HUGE sacrifice for a hard working family but they paid the extra $300,000 to move to Oakton district. Mom had to go back to work, Dad won't be retiring when he had hoped, but they did it for their kids. Now,just 2 years later, they're going to be thrown back into South Lakes. They did move quite far enough, and part of that was because they really like Reston, just not the schools.
Then there's the family who moved into the Reston island 2 years ago from IL. They throughly researched ALL the schools, found the pyramid they most liked, and finally found a house in that pyramid. Now, after buying at the market peak, they now lose their carefully chosen schools, and their house loses even more value. Very sad. They did everything right for their kids, and the School Board screws them on a whim and a moment's notice. Some people might think that's a bit unfair.
Many people think it's even more unfair when Mount Vernon and Falls Church are even more under enrolled and there is no redistricting planned for either.
Comparing everything at the state website, I would say that most families would be willing to pay $100,000 more for Madison or Oakton. If private school is $15,000 a year or more, and a family has two or more children, it makes sense to pay $100,000 or even $200,000 more for a house in a neighborhood where you can send your children to a good public school.
For most folks, $100,000 is real money.
You asked how much it is worth. One family I know spent $300,000 to move from the South Lakes district to the Oakton district. They didn't want to move, they'd lived in Reston for 10 years and loved it. But their children were approaching middle school and they did not want them in Hughes and South Lakes. It was a HUGE sacrifice for a hard working family but they paid the extra $300,000 to move to Oakton district. Mom had to go back to work, Dad won't be retiring when he had hoped, but they did it for their kids. Now,just 2 years later, they're going to be thrown back into South Lakes. They did move quite far enough, and part of that was because they really like Reston, just not the schools.
Then there's the family who moved into the Reston island 2 years ago from IL. They throughly researched ALL the schools, found the pyramid they most liked, and finally found a house in that pyramid. Now, after buying at the market peak, they now lose their carefully chosen schools, and their house loses even more value. Very sad. They did everything right for their kids, and the School Board screws them on a whim and a moment's notice. Some people might think that's a bit unfair.
Many people think it's even more unfair when Mount Vernon and Falls Church are even more under enrolled and there is no redistricting planned for either.
Comparing everything at the state website, I would say that most families would be willing to pay $100,000 more for Madison or Oakton. If private school is $15,000 a year or more, and a family has two or more children, it makes sense to pay $100,000 or even $200,000 more for a house in a neighborhood where you can send your children to a good public school.
For most folks, $100,000 is real money.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 03, 2007 01:08AM
Thomas,
Assessments are done by comparing homes in your area, they do not consider schools. I guarantee that people will pay more for the houses in good school districts, assessments aside. Assessments are rarely accurate for sale value of a home.
Many people will not look at homes in Dogwood district. Period. I'm sure you are aware of that. But they will look at a house across the street in Fox Mill. So stop inventing arguments that even you know to be false.
Assessments are done by comparing homes in your area, they do not consider schools. I guarantee that people will pay more for the houses in good school districts, assessments aside. Assessments are rarely accurate for sale value of a home.
Many people will not look at homes in Dogwood district. Period. I'm sure you are aware of that. But they will look at a house across the street in Fox Mill. So stop inventing arguments that even you know to be false.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
wrong
()
Date: November 03, 2007 01:22AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You asked how much it is worth. One family I know
> spent $300,000 to move from the South Lakes
> district to the Oakton district. They didn't want
> to move, they'd lived in Reston for 10 years and
> loved it. But their children were approaching
> middle school and they did not want them in Hughes
> and South Lakes. It was a HUGE sacrifice for a
> hard working family but they paid the extra
> $300,000 to move to Oakton district. Mom had to go
> back to work, Dad won't be retiring when he had
> hoped, but they did it for their kids. Now,just 2
> years later, they're going to be thrown back into
> South Lakes. They did move quite far enough, and
> part of that was because they really like Reston,
> just not the schools.
This sounds like a personal problem and probably one of the dumbest decisions I've heard on this entire board. If you are a student coming from a middle class family you are going to do just as well and get into the same college from South Lakes as you would have from Oakton, Westfield, or Madison. The problems with test scores and safety violations lie with the lower-income students. The middle class children are not affected. I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this concept.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You asked how much it is worth. One family I know
> spent $300,000 to move from the South Lakes
> district to the Oakton district. They didn't want
> to move, they'd lived in Reston for 10 years and
> loved it. But their children were approaching
> middle school and they did not want them in Hughes
> and South Lakes. It was a HUGE sacrifice for a
> hard working family but they paid the extra
> $300,000 to move to Oakton district. Mom had to go
> back to work, Dad won't be retiring when he had
> hoped, but they did it for their kids. Now,just 2
> years later, they're going to be thrown back into
> South Lakes. They did move quite far enough, and
> part of that was because they really like Reston,
> just not the schools.
This sounds like a personal problem and probably one of the dumbest decisions I've heard on this entire board. If you are a student coming from a middle class family you are going to do just as well and get into the same college from South Lakes as you would have from Oakton, Westfield, or Madison. The problems with test scores and safety violations lie with the lower-income students. The middle class children are not affected. I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this concept.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 03, 2007 01:22AM
Forgive me while I wipe my eyes with a big boo hoo.
Neen: You are a purveyor of negative, and your oft-stated, erroneous premise is that SLHS and Reston have no good public schools. There are so many kids who have succeeded and excelled at the elementary, middle and high school level that I find it ludicrous that you continue to cast this image of doomed, marooned, stranded families. Your universe must be so small and self-referential, b/c I know few of the people you mention, and those that I do are not in Reston, but have these strange preconceptions.
This week, SLHS grads (07) who attend MIT and Princeton, respectively, weighed in to confirm that they were thriving in their freshman years and to note that they find the SLHS bashing befuddling. Madison, the SLHS junior, also is doing "pretty, pretty good", to quote Larry David. There are a lot of other such kids, and they can testify on their own....and often do on this discussion.
So, I am sure you'll continue your supercilious bashing -- tossing the occasional note of bathos -- but it just does not add up to reality. That's not a whine, just a rebuttal to your consistent inaccuracies.
Neen: You are a purveyor of negative, and your oft-stated, erroneous premise is that SLHS and Reston have no good public schools. There are so many kids who have succeeded and excelled at the elementary, middle and high school level that I find it ludicrous that you continue to cast this image of doomed, marooned, stranded families. Your universe must be so small and self-referential, b/c I know few of the people you mention, and those that I do are not in Reston, but have these strange preconceptions.
This week, SLHS grads (07) who attend MIT and Princeton, respectively, weighed in to confirm that they were thriving in their freshman years and to note that they find the SLHS bashing befuddling. Madison, the SLHS junior, also is doing "pretty, pretty good", to quote Larry David. There are a lot of other such kids, and they can testify on their own....and often do on this discussion.
So, I am sure you'll continue your supercilious bashing -- tossing the occasional note of bathos -- but it just does not add up to reality. That's not a whine, just a rebuttal to your consistent inaccuracies.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SueBonnetSue
()
Date: November 03, 2007 02:09AM
>>>The middle class children are not affected. I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this concept.<<<
That's a little bit hard for us to believe that our children are not effected by the other children in the same school.
That's a little bit hard for us to believe that our children are not effected by the other children in the same school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 03:35AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Assessments are done by comparing homes in your
> area, they do not consider schools. I guarantee
> that people will pay more for the houses in good
> school districts, assessments aside. Assessments
> are rarely accurate for sale value of a home.
>
> Many people will not look at homes in Dogwood
> district. Period. I'm sure you are aware of that.
> But they will look at a house across the street in
> Fox Mill. So stop inventing arguments that even
> you know to be false.
Once again the absolute ignorance of this poster is on display. Virginia's constitution requires assessments to reflect fair market value. If you look at the assessment sheets on the County web site the actual sales of the property will be reported.
Assessments can be 6-9 months behind the market but generally in FFX they are acurate within 5%.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Assessments are done by comparing homes in your
> area, they do not consider schools. I guarantee
> that people will pay more for the houses in good
> school districts, assessments aside. Assessments
> are rarely accurate for sale value of a home.
>
> Many people will not look at homes in Dogwood
> district. Period. I'm sure you are aware of that.
> But they will look at a house across the street in
> Fox Mill. So stop inventing arguments that even
> you know to be false.
Once again the absolute ignorance of this poster is on display. Virginia's constitution requires assessments to reflect fair market value. If you look at the assessment sheets on the County web site the actual sales of the property will be reported.
Assessments can be 6-9 months behind the market but generally in FFX they are acurate within 5%.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 03:39AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The differences in SATs are 50 points? That's a
> pretty big difference, between a 950 and 1000, or
> 1450 and 1500.
Every admissions officer at every college will tell you that less than 50 points is not significant.
We have our first bid - $100,000 for an extra 50 points on the SAT
Any one else?
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 03:41AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The differences in SATs are 50 points? That's a
> pretty big difference, between a 950 and 1000, or
> 1450 and 1500.
Every admissions officer at every college will tell you that less than 50 points is not significant.
We have our first bid - $100,000 for an extra 50 points on the SAT
Any one else?
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 03:41AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 03, 2007 05:51AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of this talk about a magnet school is a waste
> of time. There are currently only 373 open seats
> betweeen all of the schools in the boundary study,
> accounting for the extra room at South Lakes and
> the overages at Chantilly and Westfield. That's
> not much room for a magnet school. Redistricting
> will either happen or not. Election outcomes
> influence this greatly.
>
> All of this talk about IB/AP is pointless. They're
> both good. If South Lakes does not implement AP,
> pupil placement is an option that will be
> exercised and this will defeat the purpose of
> redistricting. It's that simple.
>
> Vienna is very nice!
So another wrench thrown into the pupil placement for AP issue. When I read the provisions for pupil placement on the FCPS website, it appears to say that if one is going to pupil place for AP or another subject that is not taught in the base school, then one has to be pupil placed at the closest school geographically. So someone wanting to keep their kids at Oakton, and using the AP pupil placement as a method, may actually end up at Chantilly or Herndon, depending upon where they live. It would make sense to stay put, but they may play hardball since so many will be attempting to pupil place.
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of this talk about a magnet school is a waste
> of time. There are currently only 373 open seats
> betweeen all of the schools in the boundary study,
> accounting for the extra room at South Lakes and
> the overages at Chantilly and Westfield. That's
> not much room for a magnet school. Redistricting
> will either happen or not. Election outcomes
> influence this greatly.
>
> All of this talk about IB/AP is pointless. They're
> both good. If South Lakes does not implement AP,
> pupil placement is an option that will be
> exercised and this will defeat the purpose of
> redistricting. It's that simple.
>
> Vienna is very nice!
So another wrench thrown into the pupil placement for AP issue. When I read the provisions for pupil placement on the FCPS website, it appears to say that if one is going to pupil place for AP or another subject that is not taught in the base school, then one has to be pupil placed at the closest school geographically. So someone wanting to keep their kids at Oakton, and using the AP pupil placement as a method, may actually end up at Chantilly or Herndon, depending upon where they live. It would make sense to stay put, but they may play hardball since so many will be attempting to pupil place.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 03, 2007 05:55AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>The number of teachers assigned a school is
> the product of the number of kids in the school.
> There are other factors but it starts there.
>
> With profound underenrollment, such as we have at
> South Lakes, they had to drop a significant number
> of classes, e.g. ASL as a language class,
> economics was dropped, Advanced accounting is a
> on-line course. Other parents can list other
> courses that Oakton has but our kids don't.
>
> I also know that underenrollment is one reason
> that the kid with the reading problem was being
> remediated by a science teacher instead of a
> teacher certified in reading problems.<<<
>
> All of that could be changed. Stu could get extra
> money for South Lakes so that they could have more
> teachers and more classes. I'm sure that voters
> would find that preferable to redistricting.
> Every class at South Lakes could have 20 students,
> or even fewer. That's up to the school board to
> allocate funds. Small schools can have some real
> advantages, depending on who is representing their
> needs.
But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for example, would do the same thing there in terms of class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale. For example, if they were to take either Fox Mill or Crossfield, the band program would stand to lose anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that mnay, then they lose their assistant band director, which then costs them the class piano class, classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory Class. Of course, if they move one of the Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up for moving the others out, that would help in terms of numbers. But I've heard those people have fought moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they will fight it again.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>The number of teachers assigned a school is
> the product of the number of kids in the school.
> There are other factors but it starts there.
>
> With profound underenrollment, such as we have at
> South Lakes, they had to drop a significant number
> of classes, e.g. ASL as a language class,
> economics was dropped, Advanced accounting is a
> on-line course. Other parents can list other
> courses that Oakton has but our kids don't.
>
> I also know that underenrollment is one reason
> that the kid with the reading problem was being
> remediated by a science teacher instead of a
> teacher certified in reading problems.<<<
>
> All of that could be changed. Stu could get extra
> money for South Lakes so that they could have more
> teachers and more classes. I'm sure that voters
> would find that preferable to redistricting.
> Every class at South Lakes could have 20 students,
> or even fewer. That's up to the school board to
> allocate funds. Small schools can have some real
> advantages, depending on who is representing their
> needs.
But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for example, would do the same thing there in terms of class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale. For example, if they were to take either Fox Mill or Crossfield, the band program would stand to lose anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that mnay, then they lose their assistant band director, which then costs them the class piano class, classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory Class. Of course, if they move one of the Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up for moving the others out, that would help in terms of numbers. But I've heard those people have fought moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they will fight it again.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Stu
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:24AM
People, due to the overwheming response from the public there will not be any redistricting this year. I can assure I am all for moving people out of Chantilly/Westfield/Herndon and Oakton. However I think that you all have made your point very clear and well known. It is in the best interest of the county if we just let this topic cool down for another year.
I will continue to try and screw the folks in those school districts if given the chance.
Thanks for all your support Stu.
I will continue to try and screw the folks in those school districts if given the chance.
Thanks for all your support Stu.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 08:58AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>We've spoken to the school board staff since
> they've been through this before. They say its
> always contentious yet it always works out in the
> end<<<
>
> First, what else would they say? Second, what is
> school board staff? The school board has a staff?
> Or did you mean facilities staff? Of course
> those who support boundary changes will tell you
> that it always works out. The fact is, it doesn't
> always work. It never worked at Marshall. They've
> never gotten their enrollment over 1,300 after
> forcing many Vienna families to go there, or
> trying to force them. It didn't work. It didn't
> work at Mount Vernon either, where they did a
> beautiful renovation and it's still 792 under
> enrolled with projects that it will 1,000 under
> enrolled in 4 years. Higher income families have
> options and they exercise them.
>
> But you might be right, enrollment could be up in
> 10 years. But I don't see how they're going to
> get anything close to 700 new students even 5
> years out. If people won't initially go to South
> Lakes, their neighbors 5 years out won't either.
> Unless they make South Lakes more attractive to
> parents and students, (not facilities, no one
> cares, but academically attractive) BEFORE they
> redistrict, the boundary change is doomed. A
> critical mass must appear and they won't. Without
> the critical mass, there is no hope of convincing
> others to attend.
>
> I have no idea why the staff thought this
> renovation would motivate people to attend South
> Lakes. Putting up doors instead of shower
> curtains is a good idea, real walls are nice too,
> but parents care far more about the students and
> staff in the building than the building itself.
> Staff should have known that and worked on what is
> offered inside the building before trying to force
> people to enroll.
Neen, do you really think the renovation was to attract new customers? The renovation schedule has been on the books for years and is part of the regular cycle of improvements that the County follows. It has nothing to do with you; however, SL now has some awesome new spaces, including a computer graphics lab and a pretty remarkable dark room.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>We've spoken to the school board staff since
> they've been through this before. They say its
> always contentious yet it always works out in the
> end<<<
>
> First, what else would they say? Second, what is
> school board staff? The school board has a staff?
> Or did you mean facilities staff? Of course
> those who support boundary changes will tell you
> that it always works out. The fact is, it doesn't
> always work. It never worked at Marshall. They've
> never gotten their enrollment over 1,300 after
> forcing many Vienna families to go there, or
> trying to force them. It didn't work. It didn't
> work at Mount Vernon either, where they did a
> beautiful renovation and it's still 792 under
> enrolled with projects that it will 1,000 under
> enrolled in 4 years. Higher income families have
> options and they exercise them.
>
> But you might be right, enrollment could be up in
> 10 years. But I don't see how they're going to
> get anything close to 700 new students even 5
> years out. If people won't initially go to South
> Lakes, their neighbors 5 years out won't either.
> Unless they make South Lakes more attractive to
> parents and students, (not facilities, no one
> cares, but academically attractive) BEFORE they
> redistrict, the boundary change is doomed. A
> critical mass must appear and they won't. Without
> the critical mass, there is no hope of convincing
> others to attend.
>
> I have no idea why the staff thought this
> renovation would motivate people to attend South
> Lakes. Putting up doors instead of shower
> curtains is a good idea, real walls are nice too,
> but parents care far more about the students and
> staff in the building than the building itself.
> Staff should have known that and worked on what is
> offered inside the building before trying to force
> people to enroll.
Neen, do you really think the renovation was to attract new customers? The renovation schedule has been on the books for years and is part of the regular cycle of improvements that the County follows. It has nothing to do with you; however, SL now has some awesome new spaces, including a computer graphics lab and a pretty remarkable dark room.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 09:00AM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forgive me while I wipe my eyes with a big boo
> hoo.
>
> Neen: You are a purveyor of negative, and your
> oft-stated, erroneous premise is that SLHS and
> Reston have no good public schools. There are so
> many kids who have succeeded and excelled at the
> elementary, middle and high school level that I
> find it ludicrous that you continue to cast this
> image of doomed, marooned, stranded families.
> Your universe must be so small and
> self-referential, b/c I know few of the people you
> mention, and those that I do are not in Reston,
> but have these strange preconceptions.
>
> This week, SLHS grads (07) who attend MIT and
> Princeton, respectively, weighed in to confirm
> that they were thriving in their freshman years
> and to note that they find the SLHS bashing
> befuddling. Madison, the SLHS junior, also is
> doing "pretty, pretty good", to quote Larry David.
> There are a lot of other such kids, and they can
> testify on their own....and often do on this
> discussion.
>
> So, I am sure you'll continue your supercilious
> bashing -- tossing the occasional note of bathos
> -- but it just does not add up to reality. That's
> not a whine, just a rebuttal to your consistent
> inaccuracies.
Neen's arguments are really irrelevant, as she already stated in the wee hours of yesterday morning that, "many families are not going to send their kids to South Lakes, period."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forgive me while I wipe my eyes with a big boo
> hoo.
>
> Neen: You are a purveyor of negative, and your
> oft-stated, erroneous premise is that SLHS and
> Reston have no good public schools. There are so
> many kids who have succeeded and excelled at the
> elementary, middle and high school level that I
> find it ludicrous that you continue to cast this
> image of doomed, marooned, stranded families.
> Your universe must be so small and
> self-referential, b/c I know few of the people you
> mention, and those that I do are not in Reston,
> but have these strange preconceptions.
>
> This week, SLHS grads (07) who attend MIT and
> Princeton, respectively, weighed in to confirm
> that they were thriving in their freshman years
> and to note that they find the SLHS bashing
> befuddling. Madison, the SLHS junior, also is
> doing "pretty, pretty good", to quote Larry David.
> There are a lot of other such kids, and they can
> testify on their own....and often do on this
> discussion.
>
> So, I am sure you'll continue your supercilious
> bashing -- tossing the occasional note of bathos
> -- but it just does not add up to reality. That's
> not a whine, just a rebuttal to your consistent
> inaccuracies.
Neen's arguments are really irrelevant, as she already stated in the wee hours of yesterday morning that, "many families are not going to send their kids to South Lakes, period."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
stu2
()
Date: November 03, 2007 09:11AM
Stu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People, due to the overwheming response from the
> public there will not be any redistricting this
> year. I can assure I am all for moving people out
> of Chantilly/Westfield/Herndon and Oakton.
> However I think that you all have made your point
> very clear and well known. It is in the best
> interest of the county if we just let this topic
> cool down for another year.
>
> I will continue to try and screw the folks in
> those school districts if given the chance.
>
> Thanks for all your support Stu.
-------------------------------------------------------
> People, due to the overwheming response from the
> public there will not be any redistricting this
> year. I can assure I am all for moving people out
> of Chantilly/Westfield/Herndon and Oakton.
> However I think that you all have made your point
> very clear and well known. It is in the best
> interest of the county if we just let this topic
> cool down for another year.
>
> I will continue to try and screw the folks in
> those school districts if given the chance.
>
> Thanks for all your support Stu.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:12AM
Even so, for a great number of people ending up at Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to South Lakes.
> So another wrench thrown into the pupil placement for AP issue. When I read the provisions for pupil placement on the FCPS website, it appears to say that if one is going to pupil place for AP or another subject that is not taught in the base school, then one has to be pupil placed at the closest school geographically. So someone wanting to keep their kids at Oakton, and using the AP pupil placement as a method, may actually end up at Chantilly or Herndon, depending upon where they live. It would make sense to stay put, but they may play hardball since so many will be attempting to pupil place.
> So another wrench thrown into the pupil placement for AP issue. When I read the provisions for pupil placement on the FCPS website, it appears to say that if one is going to pupil place for AP or another subject that is not taught in the base school, then one has to be pupil placed at the closest school geographically. So someone wanting to keep their kids at Oakton, and using the AP pupil placement as a method, may actually end up at Chantilly or Herndon, depending upon where they live. It would make sense to stay put, but they may play hardball since so many will be attempting to pupil place.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:15AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Neen's arguments are really irrelevant, as she
> already stated in the wee hours of yesterday
> morning that, "many families are not going to send
> their kids to South Lakes, period."
"She" - I thought it was a "he."
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Neen's arguments are really irrelevant, as she
> already stated in the wee hours of yesterday
> morning that, "many families are not going to send
> their kids to South Lakes, period."
"She" - I thought it was a "he."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:23AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even so, for a great number of people ending up at
> Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to South
> Lakes.
>
Please help me understand that POV. Don't include the AP argument, since that would be moot if SL added AP classes. Also, did you know that IB students can and do take the AP exams all the time?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even so, for a great number of people ending up at
> Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to South
> Lakes.
>
Please help me understand that POV. Don't include the AP argument, since that would be moot if SL added AP classes. Also, did you know that IB students can and do take the AP exams all the time?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:11AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Even so, for a great number of people ending up
> at
> > Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to
> South
> > Lakes.
> >
>
> Please help me understand that POV. Don't include
> the AP argument, since that would be moot if SL
> added AP classes. Also, did you know that IB
> students can and do take the AP exams all the
> time?
One reason, I am sure there are more, is familiarity and community. Students who attend Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield, Madison and Herndon play on many of the same youth leagues together--CYA, HOY, Vienna. And have been doing so for many years. These kids have also shared many of the same classrooms at elementary and middle schools--practically growing up together. These families have grown to know each other over many years. Nothing against SL or Reston. But most folks in these other schools don't participate in Reston Youth Leagues and close to no one shares any other school time with S/L kids (except Crossfield). These other schools (except maybe some of Crossfield, Aldrin and Armstrong) don't picture Reston and South Lakes as part of their community.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:11AM by Cricket.
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Even so, for a great number of people ending up
> at
> > Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to
> South
> > Lakes.
> >
>
> Please help me understand that POV. Don't include
> the AP argument, since that would be moot if SL
> added AP classes. Also, did you know that IB
> students can and do take the AP exams all the
> time?
One reason, I am sure there are more, is familiarity and community. Students who attend Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield, Madison and Herndon play on many of the same youth leagues together--CYA, HOY, Vienna. And have been doing so for many years. These kids have also shared many of the same classrooms at elementary and middle schools--practically growing up together. These families have grown to know each other over many years. Nothing against SL or Reston. But most folks in these other schools don't participate in Reston Youth Leagues and close to no one shares any other school time with S/L kids (except Crossfield). These other schools (except maybe some of Crossfield, Aldrin and Armstrong) don't picture Reston and South Lakes as part of their community.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:11AM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:13AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for
> example, would do the same thing there in terms of
> class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale. For
> example, if they were to take either Fox Mill or
> Crossfield, the band program would stand to lose
> anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that mnay,
> then they lose their assistant band director,
> which then costs them the class piano class,
> classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory
> Class. Of course, if they move one of the
> Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up for
> moving the others out, that would help in terms of
> numbers. But I've heard those people have fought
> moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they
> will fight it again.
We are told that, if an elementary school is moved out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff size.
We'll see.
-------------------------------------------------------
> But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for
> example, would do the same thing there in terms of
> class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale. For
> example, if they were to take either Fox Mill or
> Crossfield, the band program would stand to lose
> anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that mnay,
> then they lose their assistant band director,
> which then costs them the class piano class,
> classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory
> Class. Of course, if they move one of the
> Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up for
> moving the others out, that would help in terms of
> numbers. But I've heard those people have fought
> moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they
> will fight it again.
We are told that, if an elementary school is moved out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff size.
We'll see.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:29AM
Most (90%+) of Crossfield students are from Franklin Farm and neighborhoods along West Ox Rd. They participate in the same sports programs (CYA) as the Chantilly, and Westfield kids. Crossifeld families do not see themselves associated with Reston or South Lakes. The Franklin Farm poll will give you a good idea of how they feel about the situation. Only 3% of Crossfield parents that live in Franklin Farm would like to send their kids to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:41AM
> Please help me understand that POV.
I think it's because we are an inter-related community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of it...
For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids all know each other through the various sports programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and face each other in competitive sports throughout the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of existing friends.
A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some other part of VA, we just don't know you and would prefer to lose all of our existing friends and relationships.
I think it's because we are an inter-related community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of it...
For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids all know each other through the various sports programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and face each other in competitive sports throughout the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of existing friends.
A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some other part of VA, we just don't know you and would prefer to lose all of our existing friends and relationships.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:06PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Please help me understand that POV.
>
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
>
> A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some
> other part of VA, we just don't know you and would
> prefer to lose all of our existing friends and
> relationships.
Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles. Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and they probably have nothing in common sportswise with a majority of their fellow students. They seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball and the Reston league included many Crossfield and Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS. My son is now living with one of his Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Please help me understand that POV.
>
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
>
> A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some
> other part of VA, we just don't know you and would
> prefer to lose all of our existing friends and
> relationships.
Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles. Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and they probably have nothing in common sportswise with a majority of their fellow students. They seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball and the Reston league included many Crossfield and Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS. My son is now living with one of his Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:07PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Please help me understand that POV.
>
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
Where do the Westfield kids come from who play Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen plenty of those over the years.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Please help me understand that POV.
>
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
Where do the Westfield kids come from who play Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen plenty of those over the years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:09PM
Who knows, with the boundary changes being proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids getting to know each other early on.
Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.
Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:09PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for
> > example, would do the same thing there in terms
> of
> > class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale.
> For
> > example, if they were to take either Fox Mill
> or
> > Crossfield, the band program would stand to
> lose
> > anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that
> mnay,
> > then they lose their assistant band director,
> > which then costs them the class piano class,
> > classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory
> > Class. Of course, if they move one of the
> > Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up
> for
> > moving the others out, that would help in terms
> of
> > numbers. But I've heard those people have
> fought
> > moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they
> > will fight it again.
>
> We are told that, if an elementary school is moved
> out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy
> or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
>
> So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> size.
>
> We'll see.
Again, moving Navy kids out of Chantilly does not leave enough room for Floris. And I think that we have been told many things.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:10PM by Cricket.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for
> > example, would do the same thing there in terms
> of
> > class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale.
> For
> > example, if they were to take either Fox Mill
> or
> > Crossfield, the band program would stand to
> lose
> > anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that
> mnay,
> > then they lose their assistant band director,
> > which then costs them the class piano class,
> > classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory
> > Class. Of course, if they move one of the
> > Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up
> for
> > moving the others out, that would help in terms
> of
> > numbers. But I've heard those people have
> fought
> > moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they
> > will fight it again.
>
> We are told that, if an elementary school is moved
> out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy
> or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
>
> So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> size.
>
> We'll see.
Again, moving Navy kids out of Chantilly does not leave enough room for Floris. And I think that we have been told many things.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:10PM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:11PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Please help me understand that POV.
> >
> > I think it's because we are an inter-related
> > community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part
> of
> > it...
> > For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield
> kids
> > all know each other through the various sports
> > programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon
> kids
> > as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> > from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are
> all
> > in the Concorde district (except South Lakes)
> and
> > face each other in competitive sports
> throughout
> > the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to
> Westfield
> > or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> > existing friends.
>
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.
Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to Westfield - some of them do play in Reston Little league. Is there a split boundary for sports in some of the schools around Fox Mill?
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Please help me understand that POV.
> >
> > I think it's because we are an inter-related
> > community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part
> of
> > it...
> > For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield
> kids
> > all know each other through the various sports
> > programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon
> kids
> > as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> > from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are
> all
> > in the Concorde district (except South Lakes)
> and
> > face each other in competitive sports
> throughout
> > the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to
> Westfield
> > or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> > existing friends.
>
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.
Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to Westfield - some of them do play in Reston Little league. Is there a split boundary for sports in some of the schools around Fox Mill?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:11PM
SLVerity Wrote:
deleted
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:16PM by Cricket.
deleted
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:16PM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:12PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Please help me understand that POV.
> >
> > I think it's because we are an inter-related
> > community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part
> of
> > it...
> >
> > For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield
> kids
> > all know each other through the various sports
> > programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon
> kids
> > as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> > from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are
> all
> > in the Concorde district (except South Lakes)
> and
> > face each other in competitive sports
> throughout
> > the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to
> Westfield
> > or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> > existing friends.
>
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.
Fox Mill doesn't go to Westfield.
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Please help me understand that POV.
> >
> > I think it's because we are an inter-related
> > community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part
> of
> > it...
> >
> > For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield
> kids
> > all know each other through the various sports
> > programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon
> kids
> > as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> > from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are
> all
> > in the Concorde district (except South Lakes)
> and
> > face each other in competitive sports
> throughout
> > the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to
> Westfield
> > or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> > existing friends.
>
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.
Fox Mill doesn't go to Westfield.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:16PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> getting to know each other early on.
>
> Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.
Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think anyone sees these as obstacles, except you. This is just the way of life and what everyone else is use to.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> getting to know each other early on.
>
> Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.
Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think anyone sees these as obstacles, except you. This is just the way of life and what everyone else is use to.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:17PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
>
> A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some
> other part of VA, we just don't know you and would
> prefer to lose all of our existing friends and
> relationships.
This is exactly the same rationale that I rely upon to advocate for Aldrin to come to SL. It would also apply to most of Armstrong but I'm content to leave them @ HHS. Many, but not all, Fox Mill kids also play in RLL and RYB which, using this ratiioinale, would be a reason for them to go to SL.
My sense is that kids from Westfield portioin of McNair, south of the Toll Road, play in HOYS which would lead to placing it in HHS but I remain to be persuaded on that count.
Note that a small portion of Crossfields, a portion east of the school, already goes to SL and several of them play in RLL and RYB. Several families along Fox Mill also participate in RLL and RYB.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
>
> A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some
> other part of VA, we just don't know you and would
> prefer to lose all of our existing friends and
> relationships.
This is exactly the same rationale that I rely upon to advocate for Aldrin to come to SL. It would also apply to most of Armstrong but I'm content to leave them @ HHS. Many, but not all, Fox Mill kids also play in RLL and RYB which, using this ratiioinale, would be a reason for them to go to SL.
My sense is that kids from Westfield portioin of McNair, south of the Toll Road, play in HOYS which would lead to placing it in HHS but I remain to be persuaded on that count.
Note that a small portion of Crossfields, a portion east of the school, already goes to SL and several of them play in RLL and RYB. Several families along Fox Mill also participate in RLL and RYB.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:22PM
It really doesn't matter what you think, you are not being asked to move anywhere.
> Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles.
Little League is different because Little League International sets boundaries and you are not allowed to play in any other Little League than the one for your address. This is so they can have the tournament at the end of the year.
Baseball is dying out, lacrosse is huge. Anyone can sign up for other CYA sports.
> Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles.
Little League is different because Little League International sets boundaries and you are not allowed to play in any other Little League than the one for your address. This is so they can have the tournament at the end of the year.
Baseball is dying out, lacrosse is huge. Anyone can sign up for other CYA sports.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:22PM
>
> Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox
> Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to
> Westfield - some of them do play in Reston Little
> league. Is there a split boundary for sports in
> some of the schools around Fox Mill?
Fox Mill is a sort of no man's land for sports. Kids play for Herndon Optimist, Reston, and Chantilly teams. It seems like grasping for straws to say that our kids need to go to school with kids they may have played sports with. (no offense, but really...)
> Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox
> Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to
> Westfield - some of them do play in Reston Little
> league. Is there a split boundary for sports in
> some of the schools around Fox Mill?
Fox Mill is a sort of no man's land for sports. Kids play for Herndon Optimist, Reston, and Chantilly teams. It seems like grasping for straws to say that our kids need to go to school with kids they may have played sports with. (no offense, but really...)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:24PM
Yes and the large portion does not and they play in CYA
> Note that a small portion of Crossfields, a portion east of the school, already goes to SL and several of them play in RLL and RYB. Several families along Fox Mill also participate in RLL and RYB.
> Note that a small portion of Crossfields, a portion east of the school, already goes to SL and several of them play in RLL and RYB. Several families along Fox Mill also participate in RLL and RYB.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:27PM
And I'm not saying people need to go to HS with kids they played with in youth sports.
My answer was in response to "why kids from say Oakton would find it preferrable to pupil place at Chantilly rather than go to South Lakes" So this conversation has veered somewhat from the original topic.
My answer was in response to "why kids from say Oakton would find it preferrable to pupil place at Chantilly rather than go to South Lakes" So this conversation has veered somewhat from the original topic.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:27PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> > proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> > merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> > getting to know each other early on.
> >
> > Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.
>
>
> Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think
> anyone sees these as obstacles, except you. This
> is just the way of life and what everyone else is
> use to.
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I am only trying to address the perceived obstacles to redistricting to SL that you and others keep introducing. If you had read my post just prior, you would know what I mean. I will repeat it here:
Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles. Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and they probably have nothing in common sportswise with a majority of their fellow students. They seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball and the Reston league included many Crossfield and Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS. My son is now living with one of his Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> > proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> > merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> > getting to know each other early on.
> >
> > Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.
>
>
> Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think
> anyone sees these as obstacles, except you. This
> is just the way of life and what everyone else is
> use to.
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I am only trying to address the perceived obstacles to redistricting to SL that you and others keep introducing. If you had read my post just prior, you would know what I mean. I will repeat it here:
Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles. Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and they probably have nothing in common sportswise with a majority of their fellow students. They seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball and the Reston league included many Crossfield and Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS. My son is now living with one of his Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:28PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox
> > Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to
> > Westfield - some of them do play in Reston
> Little
> > league. Is there a split boundary for sports
> in
> > some of the schools around Fox Mill?
>
>
> Fox Mill is a sort of no man's land for sports.
> Kids play for Herndon Optimist, Reston, and
> Chantilly teams. It seems like grasping for
> straws to say that our kids need to go to school
> with kids they may have played sports with. (no
> offense, but really...)
Here, here. Just another straw man.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:28PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox
> > Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to
> > Westfield - some of them do play in Reston
> Little
> > league. Is there a split boundary for sports
> in
> > some of the schools around Fox Mill?
>
>
> Fox Mill is a sort of no man's land for sports.
> Kids play for Herndon Optimist, Reston, and
> Chantilly teams. It seems like grasping for
> straws to say that our kids need to go to school
> with kids they may have played sports with. (no
> offense, but really...)
Here, here. Just another straw man.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:28PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chsparent
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:38PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We are told that, if an elementary school is moved
> out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy
> or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
>
> So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> size.
>
> We'll see.
That's the biggest issue people have regarding redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the place just to add to the population of one school and reduce the population at another. Just solve that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We are told that, if an elementary school is moved
> out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy
> or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
>
> So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> size.
>
> We'll see.
That's the biggest issue people have regarding redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the place just to add to the population of one school and reduce the population at another. Just solve that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
not true
()
Date: November 03, 2007 12:47PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most (90%+) of Crossfield students are from
> Franklin Farm and neighborhoods along West Ox Rd.
> They participate in the same sports programs (CYA)
> as the Chantilly, and Westfield kids. Crossifeld
> families do not see themselves associated with
> Reston or South Lakes. The Franklin Farm poll will
> give you a good idea of how they feel about the
> situation. Only 3% of Crossfield parents that live
> in Franklin Farm would like to send their kids to
> South Lakes.
not even close to being a true statement FF k-6 majority go to Oak Hill and Navy NOT crossfield. the part you ahve correct is FF does not want to go to SLHS. PERIOD>>>>
DO NOT VOTE for kathy smith
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most (90%+) of Crossfield students are from
> Franklin Farm and neighborhoods along West Ox Rd.
> They participate in the same sports programs (CYA)
> as the Chantilly, and Westfield kids. Crossifeld
> families do not see themselves associated with
> Reston or South Lakes. The Franklin Farm poll will
> give you a good idea of how they feel about the
> situation. Only 3% of Crossfield parents that live
> in Franklin Farm would like to send their kids to
> South Lakes.
not even close to being a true statement FF k-6 majority go to Oak Hill and Navy NOT crossfield. the part you ahve correct is FF does not want to go to SLHS. PERIOD>>>>
DO NOT VOTE for kathy smith
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 01:08PM
It is true. Most Crossfield students are from Franklin Farm and the neighborhoods along West Ox Rd. I did not say most Franklin Farm kids go to Crossfield, you are confusing things.
>> not even close to being a true statement FF k-6 majority go to Oak Hill and Navy NOT crossfield. the part you ahve correct is FF does not want to go to SLHS. PERIOD>>>>
>> not even close to being a true statement FF k-6 majority go to Oak Hill and Navy NOT crossfield. the part you ahve correct is FF does not want to go to SLHS. PERIOD>>>>
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
wrong
()
Date: November 03, 2007 01:40PM
SueBonnetSue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>The middle class children are not affected. I
> really don't understand what is so hard to grasp
> about this concept.<<<
>
> That's a little bit hard for us to believe that
> our children are not effected by the other
> children in the same school.
Well then that is the problem. They are not effected in the way you think. They are not in classes with them, they don't hang out with them after school, it is a misconception to think that being in the same building with a group of people who may not share your values is going to have such a profound negative effect on your children. It just doesn't happen. Ask anyone who actually goes to the school and they will tell you that the student body is a positive aspect of the school, not a negative.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>The middle class children are not affected. I
> really don't understand what is so hard to grasp
> about this concept.<<<
>
> That's a little bit hard for us to believe that
> our children are not effected by the other
> children in the same school.
Well then that is the problem. They are not effected in the way you think. They are not in classes with them, they don't hang out with them after school, it is a misconception to think that being in the same building with a group of people who may not share your values is going to have such a profound negative effect on your children. It just doesn't happen. Ask anyone who actually goes to the school and they will tell you that the student body is a positive aspect of the school, not a negative.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 02:48PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> > > proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues
> could
> > > merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> > > getting to know each other early on.
> > >
> > > Perceived obstacles are rarely
> insurmountable.
> >
> >
> > Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think
> > anyone sees these as obstacles, except you.
> This
> > is just the way of life and what everyone else
> is
> > use to.
>
> I am not sure what you are trying to say. I am
> only trying to address the perceived obstacles to
> redistricting to SL that you and others keep
> introducing. If you had read my post just prior,
> you would know what I mean. I will repeat it
> here:
>
> Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles.
> Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and
> they probably have nothing in common sportswise
> with a majority of their fellow students. They
> seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own
> sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point
> about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball
> and the Reston league included many Crossfield and
> Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS.
> My son is now living with one of his
> Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship
> formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard
> to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate
> with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.
I really think you are expecting too much...combining RYA with Chantilly to make a SL redistricting acceptable? I was not listing obstacles. I was answering a question you posed earlier. "Why would kids rather be sent to Chantilly or Herndon over SL (not using the AP argument)?" I wonder why bother answering the question, because I should have guessed you would take issue with the answer and turn answer around to make it look like our problem.
Schools are not organized by youth leagues. Westfield and Oakton kids share youth leagues with other communities, mostly CYA. However, many Westfield and Oakton kids will join HOY (it is not just Herndon kids in answer to your question above) or Vienna leagues. Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> > > proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues
> could
> > > merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> > > getting to know each other early on.
> > >
> > > Perceived obstacles are rarely
> insurmountable.
> >
> >
> > Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think
> > anyone sees these as obstacles, except you.
> This
> > is just the way of life and what everyone else
> is
> > use to.
>
> I am not sure what you are trying to say. I am
> only trying to address the perceived obstacles to
> redistricting to SL that you and others keep
> introducing. If you had read my post just prior,
> you would know what I mean. I will repeat it
> here:
>
> Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles.
> Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and
> they probably have nothing in common sportswise
> with a majority of their fellow students. They
> seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own
> sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point
> about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball
> and the Reston league included many Crossfield and
> Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS.
> My son is now living with one of his
> Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship
> formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard
> to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate
> with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.
I really think you are expecting too much...combining RYA with Chantilly to make a SL redistricting acceptable? I was not listing obstacles. I was answering a question you posed earlier. "Why would kids rather be sent to Chantilly or Herndon over SL (not using the AP argument)?" I wonder why bother answering the question, because I should have guessed you would take issue with the answer and turn answer around to make it look like our problem.
Schools are not organized by youth leagues. Westfield and Oakton kids share youth leagues with other communities, mostly CYA. However, many Westfield and Oakton kids will join HOY (it is not just Herndon kids in answer to your question above) or Vienna leagues. Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 02:55PM
chsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > We are told that, if an elementary school is
> moved
> > out of Oakton, another would be moved in like
> Navy
> > or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> > Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> > enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
> >
> > So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> > size.
> >
> > We'll see.
>
> That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.
Or just move Navy to South Lakes. Or Oak Hill to South Lakes. Or London Towne to Chantilly or Floris to Oakton or Fox Mill to Herndon or McNair to Chantilly. C'mon, really you are the exact puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on --spineless people who can lead neighborhoods/communities against each other. You get to do the dirty work. Stu and KAthy won't have to as they watch neighbors like you tear each other apart.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > We are told that, if an elementary school is
> moved
> > out of Oakton, another would be moved in like
> Navy
> > or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> > Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> > enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
> >
> > So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> > size.
> >
> > We'll see.
>
> That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.
Or just move Navy to South Lakes. Or Oak Hill to South Lakes. Or London Towne to Chantilly or Floris to Oakton or Fox Mill to Herndon or McNair to Chantilly. C'mon, really you are the exact puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on --spineless people who can lead neighborhoods/communities against each other. You get to do the dirty work. Stu and KAthy won't have to as they watch neighbors like you tear each other apart.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
LOLA Espanola
()
Date: November 03, 2007 03:23PM
Oh I am so confused. When I initially started following this issue, I was under the impression that the new addition at SLHS was for an additional 600-700 kids. Maybe I made that assumption based on enrollment figures or some other data posted on the FCPS website. So, I did a quick calculation and thought that those "seats" must have been gold plated because they would be worth at least $100K a pop. Now, I am trying to figure out how the number of students "needed" at SLHS is 372. Which would put each new slot worth approximately $200K a piece. Is this issue being discussed? Or I am just late to the party? I've seen stuff written about how a certain current School Board member has said that the seats at SLHS will be filled by the fall of 2008, but what about the idea of stewardship of public funds, etc... Doesn't $60 - 70 million for a remodel of a school seem like a lot of money? I must be missing something.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 05:33PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> getting to know each other early on.
The franchise boundaries of RLL and Chantilly are set by Little League International in Williamsport, PA. In fact Herndon is all part of Reston's franchise area but because the HOYS guys didn't like the amount of input they had in RLL Board of Directors, HOYS opted out of RLL and joined Cal Ripken baseball.
There are too many kids in CYA and RLL for Little League International to permit such a merger
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> getting to know each other early on.
The franchise boundaries of RLL and Chantilly are set by Little League International in Williamsport, PA. In fact Herndon is all part of Reston's franchise area but because the HOYS guys didn't like the amount of input they had in RLL Board of Directors, HOYS opted out of RLL and joined Cal Ripken baseball.
There are too many kids in CYA and RLL for Little League International to permit such a merger
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 05:38PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.
Many are from Fox Mill, some are from Crossfield, particularly the part of Crossfield that goes to SL. I've even had a few from Floris playing on Reston teams
-------
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.
Many are from Fox Mill, some are from Crossfield, particularly the part of Crossfield that goes to SL. I've even had a few from Floris playing on Reston teams
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 05:45PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like grasping for
> straws to say that our kids need to go to school
> with kids they may have played sports with. (no
> offense, but really...)
Sports league do a better job of defining communities than postal addresses. Sports leagues are one of the few means by which kids from different elementary schools make friends before middle and high school. Its part of why there is such cohesion at Madison. Those kids have been playing with each other since tee-ball.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like grasping for
> straws to say that our kids need to go to school
> with kids they may have played sports with. (no
> offense, but really...)
Sports league do a better job of defining communities than postal addresses. Sports leagues are one of the few means by which kids from different elementary schools make friends before middle and high school. Its part of why there is such cohesion at Madison. Those kids have been playing with each other since tee-ball.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 05:50PM
chsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.
Please, look at a map of the attendance areas. Its too far. And sending it to SL would make it an attendance island Crossfield, Fox Mill and McNair are closer to SL than Floris.
Floris is much closer to Chantilly than Westfield, HHS and South Lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.
Please, look at a map of the attendance areas. Its too far. And sending it to SL would make it an attendance island Crossfield, Fox Mill and McNair are closer to SL than Floris.
Floris is much closer to Chantilly than Westfield, HHS and South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:00PM
LOLA Espanola Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh I am so confused. When I initially started
> following this issue, I was under the impression
> that the new addition at SLHS was for an
> additional 600-700 kids. Maybe I made that
> assumption based on enrollment figures or some
> other data posted on the FCPS website. So, I did
> a quick calculation and thought that those "seats"
> must have been gold plated because they would be
> worth at least $100K a pop. Now, I am trying to
> figure out how the number of students "needed" at
> SLHS is 372. Which would put each new slot worth
> approximately $200K a piece. Is this issue being
> discussed? Or I am just late to the party? I've
> seen stuff written about how a certain current
> School Board member has said that the seats at
> SLHS will be filled by the fall of 2008, but what
> about the idea of stewardship of public funds,
> etc... Doesn't $60 - 70 million for a remodel of
> a school seem like a lot of money? I must be
> missing something.
Are you being a wise guy or just intentionally ignorant? the SL construction was a renovation not an expansion. The capacity of SL has actually been reduced 50-110 kids by the new construction. The principal change was going from the open floor plan of the original design which was in vogue when SL was initially designed. The movable walls allowed noise to fly from one room to another.
Another failed educational fad. FFX falls for every one that comes along. Our central staff always has to be "au courant." It the same phenomenon that gave us "whole language", "everyday math" and (you know what's next) IB!!!!
First adapters always pay the highest price.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh I am so confused. When I initially started
> following this issue, I was under the impression
> that the new addition at SLHS was for an
> additional 600-700 kids. Maybe I made that
> assumption based on enrollment figures or some
> other data posted on the FCPS website. So, I did
> a quick calculation and thought that those "seats"
> must have been gold plated because they would be
> worth at least $100K a pop. Now, I am trying to
> figure out how the number of students "needed" at
> SLHS is 372. Which would put each new slot worth
> approximately $200K a piece. Is this issue being
> discussed? Or I am just late to the party? I've
> seen stuff written about how a certain current
> School Board member has said that the seats at
> SLHS will be filled by the fall of 2008, but what
> about the idea of stewardship of public funds,
> etc... Doesn't $60 - 70 million for a remodel of
> a school seem like a lot of money? I must be
> missing something.
Are you being a wise guy or just intentionally ignorant? the SL construction was a renovation not an expansion. The capacity of SL has actually been reduced 50-110 kids by the new construction. The principal change was going from the open floor plan of the original design which was in vogue when SL was initially designed. The movable walls allowed noise to fly from one room to another.
Another failed educational fad. FFX falls for every one that comes along. Our central staff always has to be "au courant." It the same phenomenon that gave us "whole language", "everyday math" and (you know what's next) IB!!!!
First adapters always pay the highest price.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:13PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and
> they probably have nothing in common sportswise
> with a majority of their fellow students. They
> seem to adapt just fine.
No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports don't have enough kids going out for their teams. And not knowing the other kids in the school is a why. There's not another kid from their neighborhood to cajole/remind them to go to the try-out. No one to tell the coach, "Hey coach, Susie plays soccer, let's get her to come out for the team." It's a significant part of a community based school that's missing at TJ and would be missing at any magnet at South Lakes, in the unlikely event that such a magnet were to be created there.
Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in this blog? Your free to, of course, but I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 07:04PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and
> they probably have nothing in common sportswise
> with a majority of their fellow students. They
> seem to adapt just fine.
No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports don't have enough kids going out for their teams. And not knowing the other kids in the school is a why. There's not another kid from their neighborhood to cajole/remind them to go to the try-out. No one to tell the coach, "Hey coach, Susie plays soccer, let's get her to come out for the team." It's a significant part of a community based school that's missing at TJ and would be missing at any magnet at South Lakes, in the unlikely event that such a magnet were to be created there.
Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in this blog? Your free to, of course, but I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 07:04PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:28PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no RYA.
Lots of kids who ultimately go to Oakton play in RLL, Herndon/Reston Babe Ruth, RYB. They're going to Fox Mill & Crossfields. There're even a few from Floris. Haven't run into any from McNair but there may be some that I haven't met.
Speaking of McNair, I thought you'd like to know, Cricket, that some kids on the buses to Westfield, who live in those expensive townhouse on Fox Mill and whose younger siblings are going to McNair, are circulating a petition seeking to be redistricted to South Lakes!!
i guess these kids don't share your biases.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 06:29PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no RYA.
Lots of kids who ultimately go to Oakton play in RLL, Herndon/Reston Babe Ruth, RYB. They're going to Fox Mill & Crossfields. There're even a few from Floris. Haven't run into any from McNair but there may be some that I haven't met.
Speaking of McNair, I thought you'd like to know, Cricket, that some kids on the buses to Westfield, who live in those expensive townhouse on Fox Mill and whose younger siblings are going to McNair, are circulating a petition seeking to be redistricted to South Lakes!!
i guess these kids don't share your biases.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 06:29PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:41PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
>
> there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no
> RYA.
RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just football. My son plays - I do know.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
>
> there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no
> RYA.
RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just football. My son plays - I do know.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:45PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> C'mon, really you are the exact
> puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on
> --spineless people who can lead
> neighborhoods/communities against each other. You
> get to do the dirty work.
Cricket, I'm nobody's puppet, especially not your's or Stu's.
I've already voted absentee for Christine and the others endorsed by StopRD. However, unlike most of the people on this blog while I have my preferences (ALDRIN, ALDRIN, ALDRIN)(Get rid of IB!!!), but I'm open to looking at other solutions. (McNair, Fox Mill). I want decisions based as much on accurate information as possible and I don't trust the bureaucracy, including Butler or Goodman, to give a rabbit's turd about my kids or yours.
Reasonable people can solve this to the maximum advantage of most kids, If we act in good faith with each other on this blog and at the meetings.
Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate civil disobedience at the November meeting to get Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on Wednesday next.
-------------------------------------------------------
> C'mon, really you are the exact
> puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on
> --spineless people who can lead
> neighborhoods/communities against each other. You
> get to do the dirty work.
Cricket, I'm nobody's puppet, especially not your's or Stu's.
I've already voted absentee for Christine and the others endorsed by StopRD. However, unlike most of the people on this blog while I have my preferences (ALDRIN, ALDRIN, ALDRIN)(Get rid of IB!!!), but I'm open to looking at other solutions. (McNair, Fox Mill). I want decisions based as much on accurate information as possible and I don't trust the bureaucracy, including Butler or Goodman, to give a rabbit's turd about my kids or yours.
Reasonable people can solve this to the maximum advantage of most kids, If we act in good faith with each other on this blog and at the meetings.
Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate civil disobedience at the November meeting to get Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on Wednesday next.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:48PM
I'm not trying to start an IB vs AP fight again, please believe me. This is not which is better...
Did anyone happen to read the Washington Post magazine today? It is in the supplements for the Sunday Post. If not, you had better go get a copy as this article will be the talk of the town next week.
Read the article starting on page 20 - "Aiming for the Middle" - it's just a little article about Langston Hughes Middle School and the IB in the Middle years program (MYP).
And no, I won't tell you what it says, buy it or google it yourself...It's much more fun this way.
THANK YOU JAY MATTHEWS!!!!!
Did anyone happen to read the Washington Post magazine today? It is in the supplements for the Sunday Post. If not, you had better go get a copy as this article will be the talk of the town next week.
Read the article starting on page 20 - "Aiming for the Middle" - it's just a little article about Langston Hughes Middle School and the IB in the Middle years program (MYP).
And no, I won't tell you what it says, buy it or google it yourself...It's much more fun this way.
THANK YOU JAY MATTHEWS!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:48PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just football.
> My son plays - I do know.
Thank you. I sit corrected. I thought it was RFA for reston youth football. Does RYA sponsor any other sports? Do they draw kids from outside the Reston Association boundaries?
Also do you know if, now that the lighted rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open tonight, whether RYA practices will move to the Lake Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball fields?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 06:54PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just football.
> My son plays - I do know.
Thank you. I sit corrected. I thought it was RFA for reston youth football. Does RYA sponsor any other sports? Do they draw kids from outside the Reston Association boundaries?
Also do you know if, now that the lighted rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open tonight, whether RYA practices will move to the Lake Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball fields?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 06:54PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 03, 2007 06:57PM
I read it. It's a good article, puts IB in a good light.
I believe this is part of a PR campaign by the schools and the county. I don't buy that this is a coincidence.
Also points out how unfair it would be to students who don't have a IBMYP, that would be forced to attend SL. When all is said and done, Hughes won't be the single supplier of students to SL.
I believe this is part of a PR campaign by the schools and the county. I don't buy that this is a coincidence.
Also points out how unfair it would be to students who don't have a IBMYP, that would be forced to attend SL. When all is said and done, Hughes won't be the single supplier of students to SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:00PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just
> football.
> > My son plays - I do know.
>
> Thank you. I sit corrected. I thought it was RFA
> for reston youth football. Does RYA sponsor any
> other sports?
Nope, just football. And actually it is a very good program. Last year they were either 2nd in the county (for total wins) or tied. To be surpassed only by CYA.
There were some problems about 5 years ago with leadership, they embezzled or some other horrible nonsense. The new leadership got rid of some of the dead weight coaches and brought in new blood. The coaches and leadership are excellent; I was leery of football being a baseball parent. I had heard negative things, in general, about the parents, fans being a little coarse. Part of the reason I let me son play was the positive feedback I got from other parents. As a "rookie" parent, I have been truly impressed. But even more so I am impressed with how the leadership is trying to develop a pipeline through to SLHS. It takes a while to develop a program like those you see in CYA or Vienna Little league, where you see the long term committment show up in their winning records at the high school level. We're starting to see it happening in Reston now with football. Of course our team is going to the Championships so that doesn't hurt :)
We all know SLHS isn't very good in football although their freshmen team did rather well. Maybe it's starting to work, who knows?
Pick up the Reston Connection and you'll see pictures and stories each week. Have also been impressed how the Connection has been working so well to get RESTON stories in the RESTON CONNECTION unlike the RESTON TIMES which runs stories about Oakton.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just
> football.
> > My son plays - I do know.
>
> Thank you. I sit corrected. I thought it was RFA
> for reston youth football. Does RYA sponsor any
> other sports?
Nope, just football. And actually it is a very good program. Last year they were either 2nd in the county (for total wins) or tied. To be surpassed only by CYA.
There were some problems about 5 years ago with leadership, they embezzled or some other horrible nonsense. The new leadership got rid of some of the dead weight coaches and brought in new blood. The coaches and leadership are excellent; I was leery of football being a baseball parent. I had heard negative things, in general, about the parents, fans being a little coarse. Part of the reason I let me son play was the positive feedback I got from other parents. As a "rookie" parent, I have been truly impressed. But even more so I am impressed with how the leadership is trying to develop a pipeline through to SLHS. It takes a while to develop a program like those you see in CYA or Vienna Little league, where you see the long term committment show up in their winning records at the high school level. We're starting to see it happening in Reston now with football. Of course our team is going to the Championships so that doesn't hurt :)
We all know SLHS isn't very good in football although their freshmen team did rather well. Maybe it's starting to work, who knows?
Pick up the Reston Connection and you'll see pictures and stories each week. Have also been impressed how the Connection has been working so well to get RESTON stories in the RESTON CONNECTION unlike the RESTON TIMES which runs stories about Oakton.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:02PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open tonight,
> whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball
> fields?
Sorry, no clue about that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open tonight,
> whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball
> fields?
Sorry, no clue about that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:13PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> > rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open
> tonight,
> > whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> > Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball
> > fields?
>
> Sorry, no clue about that.
Given the hour I'm guessing your not going to the opening games tonight at Lake Fairfax. Can you ask around about practice and let us know?
Any insights on where the RYA kids go to school? Fox Mill, Crossfields, Aldrin Armstrong?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> > rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open
> tonight,
> > whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> > Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball
> > fields?
>
> Sorry, no clue about that.
Given the hour I'm guessing your not going to the opening games tonight at Lake Fairfax. Can you ask around about practice and let us know?
Any insights on where the RYA kids go to school? Fox Mill, Crossfields, Aldrin Armstrong?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:19PM
Thanks, Old Timer (I wish my kids would say that to me):
We have had the exact same experience with Reston Youth football.....you captured it perfectly, and it has been very nice that the Connection has supported/reported the program.
I haven't seen it first-hand, but I heard from the RYA coaches that the SLHS coaches have been helpful and available to RYA. Also, similar seeds have been planted with lacrosse, though that is a Herndon/Reston joint gig (but the SLHS coaches have been reaching out to, and supportive of -- youth leagues).
On TM's question, I don't think they will practice at the Lake Fairfax turf fields this year (only two weeks left at max), but might next....tbd.
We have had the exact same experience with Reston Youth football.....you captured it perfectly, and it has been very nice that the Connection has supported/reported the program.
I haven't seen it first-hand, but I heard from the RYA coaches that the SLHS coaches have been helpful and available to RYA. Also, similar seeds have been planted with lacrosse, though that is a Herndon/Reston joint gig (but the SLHS coaches have been reaching out to, and supportive of -- youth leagues).
On TM's question, I don't think they will practice at the Lake Fairfax turf fields this year (only two weeks left at max), but might next....tbd.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:20PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We all know SLHS isn't very good in football
> although their freshmen team did rather well.
> Maybe it's starting to work, who knows?
Not until they get rid of Ellenbarfer. SL made the playoff and will play Stonebridge next week. But SL varisty only won 3 games which makes 5 losing season for Ellenbarfer who doesn't teach fundamentals like blocking or tackling.
I remember the problems with the prior leadership of reston youth football. It might have been known as RFA then. That arrogant illegitmate offspring almost got those teams banned from using the SL fields because he wouldn't stay off the softball fields.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We all know SLHS isn't very good in football
> although their freshmen team did rather well.
> Maybe it's starting to work, who knows?
Not until they get rid of Ellenbarfer. SL made the playoff and will play Stonebridge next week. But SL varisty only won 3 games which makes 5 losing season for Ellenbarfer who doesn't teach fundamentals like blocking or tackling.
I remember the problems with the prior leadership of reston youth football. It might have been known as RFA then. That arrogant illegitmate offspring almost got those teams banned from using the SL fields because he wouldn't stay off the softball fields.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:39PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> I remember the problems with the prior leadership
> of reston youth football. It might have been
> known as RFA then. That arrogant illegitmate
> offspring almost got those teams banned from using
> the SL fields because he wouldn't stay off the
> softball fields.
If that is the issue now, that the teams are on the softball fields, I would email the football commissioner about it. His email is on the home page - www.restonseahawks.com - I believe it is commish@restonseahawks.com
Actually, I was mistaken. RYA is football, flag football, and cheerleading. I wasn't specific enough.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> I remember the problems with the prior leadership
> of reston youth football. It might have been
> known as RFA then. That arrogant illegitmate
> offspring almost got those teams banned from using
> the SL fields because he wouldn't stay off the
> softball fields.
If that is the issue now, that the teams are on the softball fields, I would email the football commissioner about it. His email is on the home page - www.restonseahawks.com - I believe it is commish@restonseahawks.com
Actually, I was mistaken. RYA is football, flag football, and cheerleading. I wasn't specific enough.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:44PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> > > rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open
> > tonight,
> > > whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> > > Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes
> softball
> > > fields?
> >
> > Sorry, no clue about that.
>
> Given the hour I'm guessing your not going to the
> opening games tonight at Lake Fairfax. Can you
> ask around about practice and let us know?
No, we're not going. Will ask around though, but as padre said, only a week to go for this season.
> Any insights on where the RYA kids go to school?
> Fox Mill, Crossfields, Aldrin Armstrong?
Same as RLL - all over. These are the ones I know - Forest Edge, Lake Anne, and even one from Forestville. It's not been a topic of conversation but I'll ask around... What has been more important, to the boys that is, is that Eddie Royal was at RYA before he went to Westfield.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> > > rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open
> > tonight,
> > > whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> > > Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes
> softball
> > > fields?
> >
> > Sorry, no clue about that.
>
> Given the hour I'm guessing your not going to the
> opening games tonight at Lake Fairfax. Can you
> ask around about practice and let us know?
No, we're not going. Will ask around though, but as padre said, only a week to go for this season.
> Any insights on where the RYA kids go to school?
> Fox Mill, Crossfields, Aldrin Armstrong?
Same as RLL - all over. These are the ones I know - Forest Edge, Lake Anne, and even one from Forestville. It's not been a topic of conversation but I'll ask around... What has been more important, to the boys that is, is that Eddie Royal was at RYA before he went to Westfield.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 07:49PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Will ask around though
Thanks
> It's not been a topic of
> conversation but I'll ask around...
thanks again
> What has been
> more important, to the boys that is, is that Eddie
> Royal was at RYA before he went to Westfield.
That's cool for the kids. VTech's back on track against Gtech thursday and Royal was given a chance in that game.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 07:50PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
Will ask around though
Thanks
> It's not been a topic of
> conversation but I'll ask around...
thanks again
> What has been
> more important, to the boys that is, is that Eddie
> Royal was at RYA before he went to Westfield.
That's cool for the kids. VTech's back on track against Gtech thursday and Royal was given a chance in that game.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 07:50PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 08:00PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > C'mon, really you are the exact
> > puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on
> > --spineless people who can lead
> > neighborhoods/communities against each other.
> You
> > get to do the dirty work.
>
> Cricket, I'm nobody's puppet, especially not
> your's or Stu's.
>
> I've already voted absentee for Christine and the
> others endorsed by StopRD. However, unlike most
> of the people on this blog while I have my
> preferences (ALDRIN, ALDRIN, ALDRIN)(Get rid of
> IB!!!), but I'm open to looking at other
> solutions. (McNair, Fox Mill). I want decisions
> based as much on accurate information as possible
> and I don't trust the bureaucracy, including
> Butler or Goodman, to give a rabbit's turd about
> my kids or yours.
>
> Reasonable people can solve this to the maximum
> advantage of most kids, If we act in good faith
> with each other on this blog and at the meetings.
>
> Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate
> civil disobedience at the November meeting to get
> Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on
> Wednesday next.
I wasn't talking about you, but whatever.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > C'mon, really you are the exact
> > puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on
> > --spineless people who can lead
> > neighborhoods/communities against each other.
> You
> > get to do the dirty work.
>
> Cricket, I'm nobody's puppet, especially not
> your's or Stu's.
>
> I've already voted absentee for Christine and the
> others endorsed by StopRD. However, unlike most
> of the people on this blog while I have my
> preferences (ALDRIN, ALDRIN, ALDRIN)(Get rid of
> IB!!!), but I'm open to looking at other
> solutions. (McNair, Fox Mill). I want decisions
> based as much on accurate information as possible
> and I don't trust the bureaucracy, including
> Butler or Goodman, to give a rabbit's turd about
> my kids or yours.
>
> Reasonable people can solve this to the maximum
> advantage of most kids, If we act in good faith
> with each other on this blog and at the meetings.
>
> Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate
> civil disobedience at the November meeting to get
> Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on
> Wednesday next.
I wasn't talking about you, but whatever.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 03, 2007 08:04PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
>
> there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no
> RYA.
>
> Lots of kids who ultimately go to Oakton play in
> RLL, Herndon/Reston Babe Ruth, RYB. They're going
> to Fox Mill & Crossfields. There're even a few
> from Floris. Haven't run into any from McNair but
> there may be some that I haven't met.
>
> Speaking of McNair, I thought you'd like to know,
> Cricket, that some kids on the buses to Westfield,
> who live in those expensive townhouse on Fox Mill
> and whose younger siblings are going to McNair,
> are circulating a petition seeking to be
> redistricted to South Lakes!!
>
> i guess these kids don't share your biases.
I am glad to hear this. It falls into your plan which you have or haven't decided you like--it's hard to tell. These kids should be involved, since their schools will most likely change again the following year. At least they are getting a head start.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
>
> there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no
> RYA.
>
> Lots of kids who ultimately go to Oakton play in
> RLL, Herndon/Reston Babe Ruth, RYB. They're going
> to Fox Mill & Crossfields. There're even a few
> from Floris. Haven't run into any from McNair but
> there may be some that I haven't met.
>
> Speaking of McNair, I thought you'd like to know,
> Cricket, that some kids on the buses to Westfield,
> who live in those expensive townhouse on Fox Mill
> and whose younger siblings are going to McNair,
> are circulating a petition seeking to be
> redistricted to South Lakes!!
>
> i guess these kids don't share your biases.
I am glad to hear this. It falls into your plan which you have or haven't decided you like--it's hard to tell. These kids should be involved, since their schools will most likely change again the following year. At least they are getting a head start.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 08:19PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read it. It's a good article, puts IB in a good
> light.
>
> I believe this is part of a PR campaign by the
> schools and the county. I don't buy that this is a
> coincidence.
Probably not - but that would put put Jay Matthews in a bad light as well. He is so well regarded especially when he ranks Oakton, Langley, Woodson, and the rest of our county schools so highly. Will we disregard some of what he says because this doesn't feed our preconceived notions? What will we think of the Challenge Index now? Maybe it too is just a marketing campaign for local schools?
> points out how unfair it would be to students
> who don't have a IBMYP, that would be forced to
> attend SL. When all is said and done, Hughes won't
> be the single supplier of students to SL.
Sorry - the spin doesn't work on this one...
1) There is no specific progression from MYP to IB. Not necessary to do MYP to do IB. You can participate in MYP in 9th and 10th without having been in the MYP for 7th and 8th. IB is only 11th and 12th. ALL STUDENTS in 9th and 10th are in the MYP.. Note to others - MYP is 7th through 10th. IB is 11th and 12th.
2) You're saying that because these students haven't been able to participate in "perhaps the most challenging middle school program in America for non-magnet schools" that they are better off not going to SL at all?
Do agree that middle schools should have been included in the study. Just heard today grumbling on the soccer fields that lots of Armstrong parents would love to get out of Herndon middle. We'd take them from elementary all the way through if we could.
Do agree that Langley should be included.
Don't think that politically motivated flaws in study parameters should deter progression though. The devil you know is better than the one you don't!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read it. It's a good article, puts IB in a good
> light.
>
> I believe this is part of a PR campaign by the
> schools and the county. I don't buy that this is a
> coincidence.
Probably not - but that would put put Jay Matthews in a bad light as well. He is so well regarded especially when he ranks Oakton, Langley, Woodson, and the rest of our county schools so highly. Will we disregard some of what he says because this doesn't feed our preconceived notions? What will we think of the Challenge Index now? Maybe it too is just a marketing campaign for local schools?
> points out how unfair it would be to students
> who don't have a IBMYP, that would be forced to
> attend SL. When all is said and done, Hughes won't
> be the single supplier of students to SL.
Sorry - the spin doesn't work on this one...
1) There is no specific progression from MYP to IB. Not necessary to do MYP to do IB. You can participate in MYP in 9th and 10th without having been in the MYP for 7th and 8th. IB is only 11th and 12th. ALL STUDENTS in 9th and 10th are in the MYP.. Note to others - MYP is 7th through 10th. IB is 11th and 12th.
2) You're saying that because these students haven't been able to participate in "perhaps the most challenging middle school program in America for non-magnet schools" that they are better off not going to SL at all?
Do agree that middle schools should have been included in the study. Just heard today grumbling on the soccer fields that lots of Armstrong parents would love to get out of Herndon middle. We'd take them from elementary all the way through if we could.
Do agree that Langley should be included.
Don't think that politically motivated flaws in study parameters should deter progression though. The devil you know is better than the one you don't!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 03, 2007 08:46PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ALL STUDENTS in 9th and 10th are in the
> MYP..
Sorry - meant all students in 7th and 8th are in MYP - regardless of whether in GT or not.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ALL STUDENTS in 9th and 10th are in the
> MYP..
Sorry - meant all students in 7th and 8th are in MYP - regardless of whether in GT or not.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 09:14PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably not - but that would put put Jay Matthews
> in a bad light as well.
Read the article. Mathews has been in the tank for IB for years. I'd like to check his bank balance to see if there's any payola flowing his way from Switzerland.
Of course, Mathew's daughter didn't have to endure the homework load of IB before she got into Cal Berkeley.
He's book Harvard Smarvard is so full of garbage when you recognize he got his daughter into one of the 5 or 6 "public iveys"
> 1) There is no specific progression from MYP to
> IB. Not necessary to do MYP to do IB.
but it is required to take a language in 8th grade to get the IB diploma which requires 5 yrs of a foriegn language which will show, along with Algebra I, on the transcript to college contrary to what Mathews rights.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 09:22PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably not - but that would put put Jay Matthews
> in a bad light as well.
Read the article. Mathews has been in the tank for IB for years. I'd like to check his bank balance to see if there's any payola flowing his way from Switzerland.
Of course, Mathew's daughter didn't have to endure the homework load of IB before she got into Cal Berkeley.
He's book Harvard Smarvard is so full of garbage when you recognize he got his daughter into one of the 5 or 6 "public iveys"
> 1) There is no specific progression from MYP to
> IB. Not necessary to do MYP to do IB.
but it is required to take a language in 8th grade to get the IB diploma which requires 5 yrs of a foriegn language which will show, along with Algebra I, on the transcript to college contrary to what Mathews rights.
More Later
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 09:22PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Can't take it
()
Date: November 03, 2007 09:18PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did anyone happen to read the Washington Post
> magazine today? It is in the supplements for the
> Sunday Post. If not, you had better go get a copy
> as this article will be the talk of the town next
> week.
>
The joke of the town, you mean. I love South Lakes and the IB Diploma program. But what was Jay on when he wrote this story? I don't want to ruin the suprise, so I won't say more.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did anyone happen to read the Washington Post
> magazine today? It is in the supplements for the
> Sunday Post. If not, you had better go get a copy
> as this article will be the talk of the town next
> week.
>
The joke of the town, you mean. I love South Lakes and the IB Diploma program. But what was Jay on when he wrote this story? I don't want to ruin the suprise, so I won't say more.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:01PM
Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The joke of the town, you mean. I love South
> Lakes and the IB Diploma program. But what was Jay
> on when he wrote this story? I don't want to ruin
> the suprise, so I won't say more.
Was the MYP program even in place when last year's seniors were at Hughes?
I don't think it was in place when this year's seniors or sophomores were at Hughes. But others may know better.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 10:02PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The joke of the town, you mean. I love South
> Lakes and the IB Diploma program. But what was Jay
> on when he wrote this story? I don't want to ruin
> the suprise, so I won't say more.
Was the MYP program even in place when last year's seniors were at Hughes?
I don't think it was in place when this year's seniors or sophomores were at Hughes. But others may know better.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 10:02PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:09PM
The IBMYP has been in Langston Hughes for quite a while, just not really emphasized and not really treated as a program (they would make connections during class to the 5 points of the IBMYP, the only one I remember is homo faber, it was really a pointless exercise at that time). I think the actual program that you could continue into South Lakes and get credit for having participated in the IBMYP started with either the class of 07 or 08, but again, like the actual IB program, probably didn't/hasn't gained much popularity yet in its early years. I'm not completely sure on those dates but its around that time.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:10PM
*by quite a while I mean probably around the time they brought IB to SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:17PM
nope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *by quite a while I mean probably around the time
> they brought IB to SL.
Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way MYP was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year language requirement in 2002.
Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and no official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them were there.
By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so maybe it was there then.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 10:33PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> *by quite a while I mean probably around the time
> they brought IB to SL.
Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way MYP was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year language requirement in 2002.
Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and no official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them were there.
By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so maybe it was there then.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 10:33PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:49PM
Everyone at Hughes participates in the IBMYP. The rising senior class at SL is the first one to be involved with the program officially. It is not a prerequisite to doing IB Junior and Senior year. It is a totally separate program. Ninth and 10th graders coming into SL can participate, though. Most college-bound students start with a language in 8th grade so it would not be an impediment to doing the IB diploma, if one were so inclined.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Can't take it
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:53PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2) You're saying that because these students
> haven't been able to participate in "perhaps the
> most challenging middle school program in America
> for non-magnet schools....
>
>
Old Timer, did your kids go to Hughes? The GT Center, perhaps? Because you are certainly not describing the school or the IB MYP program my two kids experienced.
That said, I have a lot of faith in Amy Montigio, the new principal at Hughes. She's there to do for Hughes what Butler did for South Lakes, and like Butler, she is smart and savvy enough to turn things around. Maybe she'll have the good sense to listen to her teachers, parents and students, and boot the IB Middle Years program out the door. A solid and challenging curriculum is the best prepartion for the IB Diploma Program, not the poster-coloring, time-wasting MYP projects. MYP doesn't prepare kids for IB; it turns kids (and parents) off IB and gives the IB Program a bad name.
And Thomas, please don't go off on Bruce Butler because I spoke well of him in this post. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but we have heard it many times already. Although I am sure you could find a parent or two who would agree with you, most of us really don't. Bruce Butler has taken South Lakes a long way in just a few years. Had he been appointed years earlier, redistricting would be far less contentious or perhaps unnecessary. For this egregious failure of leadership, I blame Stu Gibson. Unfortunately, handing my vote to Christine would ally me with Neen which makes me nauseous.
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2) You're saying that because these students
> haven't been able to participate in "perhaps the
> most challenging middle school program in America
> for non-magnet schools....
>
>
Old Timer, did your kids go to Hughes? The GT Center, perhaps? Because you are certainly not describing the school or the IB MYP program my two kids experienced.
That said, I have a lot of faith in Amy Montigio, the new principal at Hughes. She's there to do for Hughes what Butler did for South Lakes, and like Butler, she is smart and savvy enough to turn things around. Maybe she'll have the good sense to listen to her teachers, parents and students, and boot the IB Middle Years program out the door. A solid and challenging curriculum is the best prepartion for the IB Diploma Program, not the poster-coloring, time-wasting MYP projects. MYP doesn't prepare kids for IB; it turns kids (and parents) off IB and gives the IB Program a bad name.
And Thomas, please don't go off on Bruce Butler because I spoke well of him in this post. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but we have heard it many times already. Although I am sure you could find a parent or two who would agree with you, most of us really don't. Bruce Butler has taken South Lakes a long way in just a few years. Had he been appointed years earlier, redistricting would be far less contentious or perhaps unnecessary. For this egregious failure of leadership, I blame Stu Gibson. Unfortunately, handing my vote to Christine would ally me with Neen which makes me nauseous.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:59PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone at Hughes participates in the IBMYP. The
> rising senior class at SL is the first one to be
> involved with the program officially. It is not a
> prerequisite to doing IB Junior and Senior year.
> It is a totally separate program. Ninth and 10th
> graders coming into SL can participate, though.
> Most college-bound students start with a language
> in 8th grade so it would not be an impediment to
> doing the IB diploma, if one were so inclined.
Your just couldn't be more wrong. Lots of college bound students at SL never took a language at Hughes. You're just making stuff up now.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:09PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone at Hughes participates in the IBMYP. The
> rising senior class at SL is the first one to be
> involved with the program officially. It is not a
> prerequisite to doing IB Junior and Senior year.
> It is a totally separate program. Ninth and 10th
> graders coming into SL can participate, though.
> Most college-bound students start with a language
> in 8th grade so it would not be an impediment to
> doing the IB diploma, if one were so inclined.
Your just couldn't be more wrong. Lots of college bound students at SL never took a language at Hughes. You're just making stuff up now.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:09PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 03, 2007 10:59PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nope Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > *by quite a while I mean probably around the
> time
> > they brought IB to SL.
>
> Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way MYP
> was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal
> didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year
> language requirement in 2002.
>
> Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and no
> official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them were
> there.
>
> By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so
> maybe it was there then.
This is what I meant by saying that it wasnt emphasized and there was no program that continued through the high school. I was at Hughes 99-01 and I absolutely remember IBMYP posters in the class rooms. We just didn't do anything with them other than learn the 5 concepts.
-------------------------------------------------------
> nope Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > *by quite a while I mean probably around the
> time
> > they brought IB to SL.
>
> Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way MYP
> was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal
> didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year
> language requirement in 2002.
>
> Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and no
> official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them were
> there.
>
> By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so
> maybe it was there then.
This is what I meant by saying that it wasnt emphasized and there was no program that continued through the high school. I was at Hughes 99-01 and I absolutely remember IBMYP posters in the class rooms. We just didn't do anything with them other than learn the 5 concepts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:07PM
Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Thomas, please don't go off on Bruce Butler
> because I spoke well of him in this post.
I have given almost a dozen examples of Butler's failures on this blog in just his first two years.
I'm waiting for one of Bruce's sycophants to name one specific thing he's done right.
Everyone talks about a better atmosphere. The folks in Berlin were happy when the Russians showed up in '45 because they were so relieved to be rid of the Nazis. But by 48, they were in open rebellion.
All this happy talk about the Emperor's new clothes doesn't persuade folks from the other schools.
The previous Hughes principal was terrific. She very much deserved the promotion to McLean.
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Thomas, please don't go off on Bruce Butler
> because I spoke well of him in this post.
I have given almost a dozen examples of Butler's failures on this blog in just his first two years.
I'm waiting for one of Bruce's sycophants to name one specific thing he's done right.
Everyone talks about a better atmosphere. The folks in Berlin were happy when the Russians showed up in '45 because they were so relieved to be rid of the Nazis. But by 48, they were in open rebellion.
All this happy talk about the Emperor's new clothes doesn't persuade folks from the other schools.
The previous Hughes principal was terrific. She very much deserved the promotion to McLean.
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:09PM
Thomas More Wrote:
> Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in
> this blog? Your free to, of course, but I don't
> understand what you're trying to accomplish.
Why are you so hostile to those whose opinions/perceptions/experiences differ from yours?
I have lived in this community for 25 years and been actively involved in the schools almost as long, even prior to my own children attending. I have every right to post on this board and make my experiences/opinions known. Just because my kids have graduated does not mean that my interest in our schools and broader community ends. I am not just in it for myself. I guess that is beyond the realm of your comprehension.
I guess it's hard for you, expert in all subjects, to be patient with one as ignorant and ill-informed as me, but I ask you to please try, for my sake.
> Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in
> this blog? Your free to, of course, but I don't
> understand what you're trying to accomplish.
Why are you so hostile to those whose opinions/perceptions/experiences differ from yours?
I have lived in this community for 25 years and been actively involved in the schools almost as long, even prior to my own children attending. I have every right to post on this board and make my experiences/opinions known. Just because my kids have graduated does not mean that my interest in our schools and broader community ends. I am not just in it for myself. I guess that is beyond the realm of your comprehension.
I guess it's hard for you, expert in all subjects, to be patient with one as ignorant and ill-informed as me, but I ask you to please try, for my sake.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:13PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> > Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in
> > this blog? Your free to, of course, but I
> don't
> > understand what you're trying to accomplish.
>
> Why are you so hostile to those whose
> opinions/perceptions/experiences differ from
> yours?
>
> I have lived in this community for 25 years and
> been actively involved in the schools almost as
> long, even prior to my own children attending. I
> have every right to post on this board and make my
> experiences/opinions known. Just because my kids
> have graduated does not mean that my interest in
> our schools and broader community ends. I am not
> just in it for myself. I guess that is beyond the
> realm of your comprehension.
>
> I guess it's hard for you, expert in all subjects,
> to be patient with one as ignorant and
> ill-informed as me, but I ask you to please try,
> for my sake.
I'll defend to the death your right to your erroneous opiniions. I just can't understand your motivation to defend SL at all costs, frequently with misinformation.
So that leads me to conclude that you're just a busy body trying to force your solutions on our kids. How, magnanimous.
Maybe you're on the payroll at SL or the school division's central staff.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:27PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> > Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in
> > this blog? Your free to, of course, but I
> don't
> > understand what you're trying to accomplish.
>
> Why are you so hostile to those whose
> opinions/perceptions/experiences differ from
> yours?
>
> I have lived in this community for 25 years and
> been actively involved in the schools almost as
> long, even prior to my own children attending. I
> have every right to post on this board and make my
> experiences/opinions known. Just because my kids
> have graduated does not mean that my interest in
> our schools and broader community ends. I am not
> just in it for myself. I guess that is beyond the
> realm of your comprehension.
>
> I guess it's hard for you, expert in all subjects,
> to be patient with one as ignorant and
> ill-informed as me, but I ask you to please try,
> for my sake.
I'll defend to the death your right to your erroneous opiniions. I just can't understand your motivation to defend SL at all costs, frequently with misinformation.
So that leads me to conclude that you're just a busy body trying to force your solutions on our kids. How, magnanimous.
Maybe you're on the payroll at SL or the school division's central staff.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:27PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:20PM
Thomas More Wrote:
>
> So you're just a busy body trying to force your
> solutions on our kids. Oh, magnanimous.
>
> Maybe you're on the payroll at SL or the school
> divisions central staff.
So now you've really taken off the gloves. I am scared now, Tom. I guess I'll have to stop posting here, now that the all-knowing, great and powerful Tom has spoken. Except you are more like the wizard behind the curtain and you really don't pack much of a punch.
I confess, though, I am actually Jack Dale. Or maybe I'm Bruce Butler. Or maybe I'm Jay Mathews. I'm so confused I don't know who I am or if I even have children in the system anymore.
>
> So you're just a busy body trying to force your
> solutions on our kids. Oh, magnanimous.
>
> Maybe you're on the payroll at SL or the school
> divisions central staff.
So now you've really taken off the gloves. I am scared now, Tom. I guess I'll have to stop posting here, now that the all-knowing, great and powerful Tom has spoken. Except you are more like the wizard behind the curtain and you really don't pack much of a punch.
I confess, though, I am actually Jack Dale. Or maybe I'm Bruce Butler. Or maybe I'm Jay Mathews. I'm so confused I don't know who I am or if I even have children in the system anymore.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 03, 2007 11:29PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So now you've really taken off the gloves. I am
> scared now, Tom. I guess I'll have to stop posting
> here, now that the all-knowing, great and powerful
> Tom has spoken. Except you are more like the
> wizard behind the curtain and you really don't
> pack much of a punch.
>
> I confess, though, I am actually Jack Dale. Or
> maybe I'm Bruce Butler. Or maybe I'm Jay Mathews.
> I'm so confused I don't know who I am or if I
> even have children in the system anymore.
No body else can figure out what you're up to either.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So now you've really taken off the gloves. I am
> scared now, Tom. I guess I'll have to stop posting
> here, now that the all-knowing, great and powerful
> Tom has spoken. Except you are more like the
> wizard behind the curtain and you really don't
> pack much of a punch.
>
> I confess, though, I am actually Jack Dale. Or
> maybe I'm Bruce Butler. Or maybe I'm Jay Mathews.
> I'm so confused I don't know who I am or if I
> even have children in the system anymore.
No body else can figure out what you're up to either.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:07AM
Word,
Of course it's part of their PR campaign. Most staff at Hughes has thought that middle school IB was a joke, a nothing program.
Don't forget that Jay Mathews is a liberal who LOVES IB. Remember too that Jay Mathews pulled his first child out of public school when she was in second grade. After that, none of his children ever set foot in public schools, despite living in Bethesda, in Walt Whitman district. All of his children went to St. Albans.
So, pardon me if I don't much care what Jay Mathews thinks the little people should do and how they should educate their children.
Of course it's part of their PR campaign. Most staff at Hughes has thought that middle school IB was a joke, a nothing program.
Don't forget that Jay Mathews is a liberal who LOVES IB. Remember too that Jay Mathews pulled his first child out of public school when she was in second grade. After that, none of his children ever set foot in public schools, despite living in Bethesda, in Walt Whitman district. All of his children went to St. Albans.
So, pardon me if I don't much care what Jay Mathews thinks the little people should do and how they should educate their children.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:15AM
Boy, there are a lot of black helicopter conspiracy theories posted on this site.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:29AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boy, there are a lot of black helicopter
> conspiracy theories posted on this site.
It almost outweighs the brown-nosing emanating from the SL sycophants.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boy, there are a lot of black helicopter
> conspiracy theories posted on this site.
It almost outweighs the brown-nosing emanating from the SL sycophants.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Can't take it
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:29AM
nope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > nope Wrote:
> >
> >
> > Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way
> MYP
> > was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal
> > didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year
> > language requirement in 2002.
> >
> > Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and
> no
> > official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them
> were
> > there.
> >
> > By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so
> > maybe it was there then.
>
>
> This is what I meant by saying that it wasnt
> emphasized and there was no program that continued
> through the high school. I was at Hughes 99-01 and
> I absolutely remember IBMYP posters in the class
> rooms. We just didn't do anything with them other
> than learn the 5 concepts.
Of course MYP was at Hughes when my Senior was in 7th grade. I remember ridiculing it constantly. But back then, it was truly laughable, and at worst a bit of an annoyance. Teachers did the MYP minimum - they asked kids once a quarter to write how an assignment fit one of the five "areas of interaction" (remember Homo Faber...?). It was silly, but not terribly time consuming or harmful. Teachers seemed to be satisfied with my son's typical response: "my project relates to Homo Faber which means 'man the maker' because I made it". For the most part, teachers back then still concentrated on teaching and most did a reasonably good job of it.
By the time my South Lakes freshman arrived at Hughes three years later,most of those teachers were gone and the MYP program was more entrenched. This was not good news. I started buying poster boards in 10-packs. I think there must be an MYP requirement that teachers give only assignments that can also decorate classrooms and hallways. The kids made not only posters, but also bookmarks, gameboards, and clay things, in honors English class, But they didn't read literature or write papers. Obnoxious parents like me complained a lot. I'd like to think that perhaps those complaints played a small role in bringing about the changes in leadership a year later.
Does MYP have to be horrible? Perhaps not, but I have never seen evidence that it can be beneficial. It promotes some good teaching practices, but it doesn't own them. Good teaching practices don't need packaging in an expensive "Programme" with a bunch of other manditory superflous junk.
At South Lakes, frankly, MYP is a bit of an afterthought. It's still in place for 9th and 10th grade in theory, but in practice it's hardly felt. Teachers teach well in whatever ways help kids learn. Students who want the MYP certificate in 10th grade complete a "personal project" of their choosing. It's not a big deal, and if it wasn't for Hughes, I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it.
So I still want to know what Jay was smoking when he wrote that article.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > nope Wrote:
> >
> >
> > Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way
> MYP
> > was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal
> > didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year
> > language requirement in 2002.
> >
> > Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and
> no
> > official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them
> were
> > there.
> >
> > By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so
> > maybe it was there then.
>
>
> This is what I meant by saying that it wasnt
> emphasized and there was no program that continued
> through the high school. I was at Hughes 99-01 and
> I absolutely remember IBMYP posters in the class
> rooms. We just didn't do anything with them other
> than learn the 5 concepts.
Of course MYP was at Hughes when my Senior was in 7th grade. I remember ridiculing it constantly. But back then, it was truly laughable, and at worst a bit of an annoyance. Teachers did the MYP minimum - they asked kids once a quarter to write how an assignment fit one of the five "areas of interaction" (remember Homo Faber...?). It was silly, but not terribly time consuming or harmful. Teachers seemed to be satisfied with my son's typical response: "my project relates to Homo Faber which means 'man the maker' because I made it". For the most part, teachers back then still concentrated on teaching and most did a reasonably good job of it.
By the time my South Lakes freshman arrived at Hughes three years later,most of those teachers were gone and the MYP program was more entrenched. This was not good news. I started buying poster boards in 10-packs. I think there must be an MYP requirement that teachers give only assignments that can also decorate classrooms and hallways. The kids made not only posters, but also bookmarks, gameboards, and clay things, in honors English class, But they didn't read literature or write papers. Obnoxious parents like me complained a lot. I'd like to think that perhaps those complaints played a small role in bringing about the changes in leadership a year later.
Does MYP have to be horrible? Perhaps not, but I have never seen evidence that it can be beneficial. It promotes some good teaching practices, but it doesn't own them. Good teaching practices don't need packaging in an expensive "Programme" with a bunch of other manditory superflous junk.
At South Lakes, frankly, MYP is a bit of an afterthought. It's still in place for 9th and 10th grade in theory, but in practice it's hardly felt. Teachers teach well in whatever ways help kids learn. Students who want the MYP certificate in 10th grade complete a "personal project" of their choosing. It's not a big deal, and if it wasn't for Hughes, I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it.
So I still want to know what Jay was smoking when he wrote that article.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:33AM
Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > 2) You're saying that because these students
> > haven't been able to participate in "perhaps
> the
> > most challenging middle school program in
> America
> > for non-magnet schools....
> >
I'm quoting the article - Jay Matthews - it's also called sarcasm...
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > 2) You're saying that because these students
> > haven't been able to participate in "perhaps
> the
> > most challenging middle school program in
> America
> > for non-magnet schools....
> >
I'm quoting the article - Jay Matthews - it's also called sarcasm...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:37AM
>>>When all is said and done, Hughes won't be the single supplier of students to SL.<<<<
Are you sure that students redistricted to South Lakes won't also be redistricted to Hughes? Or will several middle schools feed to South Lakes? I thought a goal of the school board was to eliminate split feeders?
Are you sure that students redistricted to South Lakes won't also be redistricted to Hughes? Or will several middle schools feed to South Lakes? I thought a goal of the school board was to eliminate split feeders?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:44AM
Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course MYP was at Hughes when my Senior was in
> 7th grade. I remember ridiculing it constantly.
> But back then, it was truly laughable, and at
> worst a bit of an annoyance. Teachers did the MYP
> minimum - they asked kids once a quarter to write
> how an assignment fit one of the five "areas of
> interaction" (remember Homo Faber...?). It was
> silly, but not terribly time consuming or harmful.
All those posters were driven by MYP. Well, my eyes are open. Neither the teacher's nor the kids ever tied it to MYP. I expected an MYP program to be more like the pre-IB courses the 9th & 10th graders take SL. The claymation stuff reminded me of a Montesorri pre-school. What a joke.
What connection did that stuff have with anything on the SATs?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 12:48AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course MYP was at Hughes when my Senior was in
> 7th grade. I remember ridiculing it constantly.
> But back then, it was truly laughable, and at
> worst a bit of an annoyance. Teachers did the MYP
> minimum - they asked kids once a quarter to write
> how an assignment fit one of the five "areas of
> interaction" (remember Homo Faber...?). It was
> silly, but not terribly time consuming or harmful.
All those posters were driven by MYP. Well, my eyes are open. Neither the teacher's nor the kids ever tied it to MYP. I expected an MYP program to be more like the pre-IB courses the 9th & 10th graders take SL. The claymation stuff reminded me of a Montesorri pre-school. What a joke.
What connection did that stuff have with anything on the SATs?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 12:48AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:45AM
Maybe it's part of the marketing campaign, maybe it's not.
But,you can't have it both ways - you can't quote Matthew's challenge index showing your school ranking on one hand and then dismiss him when he calls the MYP at Langston Hughes the most "challenging middle school program in America for non-magnet schools."
And the rank and file who believe everything they read or what their friend's nephew's babysitter's boyfriend heard about South Lakes are GOING TO BELIEVE THE ARTICLE. It's in print dammit, it must be true!
And Neen - because you want all of this to be political,because you are so political, I absentee voted for Stu...
But,you can't have it both ways - you can't quote Matthew's challenge index showing your school ranking on one hand and then dismiss him when he calls the MYP at Langston Hughes the most "challenging middle school program in America for non-magnet schools."
And the rank and file who believe everything they read or what their friend's nephew's babysitter's boyfriend heard about South Lakes are GOING TO BELIEVE THE ARTICLE. It's in print dammit, it must be true!
And Neen - because you want all of this to be political,because you are so political, I absentee voted for Stu...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:50AM
Thomas More said
>>>Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate
> civil disobedience at the November meeting to get
> Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on
> Wednesday next.<<<<
I suspect that you won't be alone. I also know that it won't matter. They've already decided what will happen. The community meetings are a PR move so staff can explain why the community cannot have what they want, while making the community think that they actually have some input into the outcome. They don't. Or they never have before in boundary changes. Janie, Stu, and Kathy have already decided what will happen.
Floris and McNair (or part of McNair) go to South Lakes. It's the easiest solution for the school board, or this current school board. If Christine and/or John win, it's all off the table and back to the drawing boards. Heck, they might even be able to consult the community BEFORE they decide on a boundary study. Wouldn't that be novel for our school board? Talking to the community BEFORE they make a decision? Wow. What a concept.
>>>Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate
> civil disobedience at the November meeting to get
> Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on
> Wednesday next.<<<<
I suspect that you won't be alone. I also know that it won't matter. They've already decided what will happen. The community meetings are a PR move so staff can explain why the community cannot have what they want, while making the community think that they actually have some input into the outcome. They don't. Or they never have before in boundary changes. Janie, Stu, and Kathy have already decided what will happen.
Floris and McNair (or part of McNair) go to South Lakes. It's the easiest solution for the school board, or this current school board. If Christine and/or John win, it's all off the table and back to the drawing boards. Heck, they might even be able to consult the community BEFORE they decide on a boundary study. Wouldn't that be novel for our school board? Talking to the community BEFORE they make a decision? Wow. What a concept.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:52AM
Ditto.
I also absentee voted for Stu, and gave the button a little extra firm push, so that the machine would not think I was just another brown-nosin' squishy Reston lib.
Thomas: Was that sarcasm or a firm attestation in favor of Deborah Jackson (now at McLean)....couldn't tell.
On to the finals, Reston Seahawks.
I also absentee voted for Stu, and gave the button a little extra firm push, so that the machine would not think I was just another brown-nosin' squishy Reston lib.
Thomas: Was that sarcasm or a firm attestation in favor of Deborah Jackson (now at McLean)....couldn't tell.
On to the finals, Reston Seahawks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:58AM
Can't take it wrote:
>>>By the time my South Lakes freshman arrived at Hughes three years later,most of those teachers were gone and the MYP program was more entrenched. This was not good news. I started buying poster boards in 10-packs. I think there must be an MYP requirement that teachers give only assignments that can also decorate classrooms and hallways. The kids made not only posters, but also bookmarks, gameboards, and clay things, in honors English class, But they didn't read literature or write papers. Obnoxious parents like me complained a lot. I'd like to think that perhaps those complaints played a small role in bringing about the changes in leadership a year later.
Does MYP have to be horrible? Perhaps not, but I have never seen evidence that it can be beneficial. It promotes some good teaching practices, but it doesn't own them. Good teaching practices don't need packaging in an expensive "Programme" with a bunch of other manditory superflous junk.
At South Lakes, frankly, MYP is a bit of an afterthought. It's still in place for 9th and 10th grade in theory, but in practice it's hardly felt. Teachers teach well in whatever ways help kids learn. Students who want the MYP certificate in 10th grade complete a "personal project" of their choosing. It's not a big deal, and if it wasn't for Hughes, I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it.<<<
This is EXACTLY what parents, and staff at South Lakes, have told me.
Jay Mathews is doing his best to get his democrats elected to the school board. I am sure that Stu is THRILLED with Jay's article since Stu takes credit for IB at South Lakes and IB MYP at Hughes. What better PR could Stu get two days before the election? How nice of Jay to do that for him.
I just love it when rich liberals like jay Mathews tell everyone else to send their child to an IB school while their own children attend St. Albans. He's happy to tell everyone else to sacrifice their child to mediocre public schools but he would never do that himself.
>>>By the time my South Lakes freshman arrived at Hughes three years later,most of those teachers were gone and the MYP program was more entrenched. This was not good news. I started buying poster boards in 10-packs. I think there must be an MYP requirement that teachers give only assignments that can also decorate classrooms and hallways. The kids made not only posters, but also bookmarks, gameboards, and clay things, in honors English class, But they didn't read literature or write papers. Obnoxious parents like me complained a lot. I'd like to think that perhaps those complaints played a small role in bringing about the changes in leadership a year later.
Does MYP have to be horrible? Perhaps not, but I have never seen evidence that it can be beneficial. It promotes some good teaching practices, but it doesn't own them. Good teaching practices don't need packaging in an expensive "Programme" with a bunch of other manditory superflous junk.
At South Lakes, frankly, MYP is a bit of an afterthought. It's still in place for 9th and 10th grade in theory, but in practice it's hardly felt. Teachers teach well in whatever ways help kids learn. Students who want the MYP certificate in 10th grade complete a "personal project" of their choosing. It's not a big deal, and if it wasn't for Hughes, I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it.<<<
This is EXACTLY what parents, and staff at South Lakes, have told me.
Jay Mathews is doing his best to get his democrats elected to the school board. I am sure that Stu is THRILLED with Jay's article since Stu takes credit for IB at South Lakes and IB MYP at Hughes. What better PR could Stu get two days before the election? How nice of Jay to do that for him.
I just love it when rich liberals like jay Mathews tell everyone else to send their child to an IB school while their own children attend St. Albans. He's happy to tell everyone else to sacrifice their child to mediocre public schools but he would never do that himself.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:02AM
I must say that I am quite surprised to read here, and hear elsewhere, of so many democrats voting against Stu. It does my heart good to see people putting their partisanship aside to do what is right for kids. For many people that's not an easy thing to do and I applaud you for doing the right thing. Kudos.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:05AM
Old Timer,
Of course you voted for Stu. That's been rather obvious. This issue is completely political. If Stu wins, the community is redistricted exactly as he wants it to be. If he loses, the community gets a say in what happens. Simple as that.
Of course you voted for Stu. That's been rather obvious. This issue is completely political. If Stu wins, the community is redistricted exactly as he wants it to be. If he loses, the community gets a say in what happens. Simple as that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:06AM
One person's partisanship is another's patriotism. I am not a democrat, btw.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:07AM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ditto.
Which post were you dittoing?
> Thomas: Was that sarcasm or a firm attestation in
> favor of Deborah Jackson (now at
> McLean)....couldn't tell.
I really liked Ms. Jackson. I know others didn't but I always found her to be approachable. I appreciated that her first reflex was not to protect the staff. She took on the staff's foolishness more than once while my kids were there.
> On to the finals, Reston Seahawks.
Is that an exhortation or an announcement of victory?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ditto.
Which post were you dittoing?
> Thomas: Was that sarcasm or a firm attestation in
> favor of Deborah Jackson (now at
> McLean)....couldn't tell.
I really liked Ms. Jackson. I know others didn't but I always found her to be approachable. I appreciated that her first reflex was not to protect the staff. She took on the staff's foolishness more than once while my kids were there.
> On to the finals, Reston Seahawks.
Is that an exhortation or an announcement of victory?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:07AM
BTW, I've always thought that Jay's little index was useless. I have no idea where Madison ranks, (he doesn't allow TJ to be in his little rankings) nor do I care. He made up his index, based on ONE thing, IB and AP tests. It's a silly way to rank schools, made up entirely by ONE person, one person who is a newspaper reporter. I have no idea why anyone gives it any credence.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:09AM
Padre, Can we assume that you have never been a Stu supporter? I think I heard about you, the ONE person in Reston who voted against Stu in previous campaigns.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:10AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just love it when rich liberals like jay Mathews
> tell everyone else to send their child to an IB
> school while their own children attend St. Albans.
> He's happy to tell everyone else to sacrifice
> their child to mediocre public schools but he
> would never do that himself.
I get freightened when I agree with you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just love it when rich liberals like jay Mathews
> tell everyone else to send their child to an IB
> school while their own children attend St. Albans.
> He's happy to tell everyone else to sacrifice
> their child to mediocre public schools but he
> would never do that himself.
I get freightened when I agree with you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:11AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Padre, Can we assume that you have never been a
> Stu supporter? I think I heard about you, the ONE
> person in Reston who voted against Stu in previous
> campaigns.
Neen, you know I voted against him in 2003.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Padre, Can we assume that you have never been a
> Stu supporter? I think I heard about you, the ONE
> person in Reston who voted against Stu in previous
> campaigns.
Neen, you know I voted against him in 2003.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:13AM
Ditto, I voted for Stu.
I wish Dr. Jackson well in her new position.
I believe that at least four of the RYA teams will play in the finals (there are a lot of divisions, but that is 4 of 11 Reston teams, if I have my figures right; 8 of 11 made the playoffs).
I wish Dr. Jackson well in her new position.
I believe that at least four of the RYA teams will play in the finals (there are a lot of divisions, but that is 4 of 11 Reston teams, if I have my figures right; 8 of 11 made the playoffs).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:14AM
Seriously, someone must have paid Jay Mathews big bucks, or he's smoking wacky tabacky, if he thinks that IB MY program is challenging. NO ONE has EVER said that before, no one at Hughes, or South Lakes. I find the statement rather insulting to our middle school students at Hughes if he thinks this program is challenging them to do anything other than colorful posters. Does Jay think that's the best these 'poor kids' can achieve? Sounds rather patronizing, assuming he actually knows anything about the program. It's a joke. And he's insulting Hughes students with statements like he made. I can't wait to see letters to the editor on this.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:18AM
SLVerity,
Of course the renovations were not done to attract out of boundary students but they sure are using it as a selling point. That was my point. Why do they do that when parents don't care about what a building looks like, but what is going on inside the classrooms? A nice shiny new building doesn't matter. If it did, we wouldn't have 3,000 kids a year trying to get into TJ.
Of course the renovations were not done to attract out of boundary students but they sure are using it as a selling point. That was my point. Why do they do that when parents don't care about what a building looks like, but what is going on inside the classrooms? A nice shiny new building doesn't matter. If it did, we wouldn't have 3,000 kids a year trying to get into TJ.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:22AM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish Dr. Jackson well in her new position.
>
Do you mean that sarcastically as in good riddence?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish Dr. Jackson well in her new position.
>
Do you mean that sarcastically as in good riddence?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:23AM
>>>That's the biggest issue people have regarding redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the place just to add to the population of one school and reduce the population at another. Just solve that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.<<<
EXACTLY!!! That's why Floris and McNair will go to South Lakes and everyone else will be left alone.
EXACTLY!!! That's why Floris and McNair will go to South Lakes and everyone else will be left alone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:28AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's why Floris and McNair will go
> to South Lakes and everyone else will be left
> alone.
Why on earth would you do that to the kids from Floris?
I know you like to be clever but that's really is callous & cruel. The Floris kids never did anything to deserve that emnity. And skip the cheap shots at SL.
Seriously.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:28AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's why Floris and McNair will go
> to South Lakes and everyone else will be left
> alone.
Why on earth would you do that to the kids from Floris?
I know you like to be clever but that's really is callous & cruel. The Floris kids never did anything to deserve that emnity. And skip the cheap shots at SL.
Seriously.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:28AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:34AM
>>>Another failed educational fad. FFX falls for every one that comes along. Our central staff always has to be "au courant." It the same phenomenon that gave us "whole language", "everyday math" and (you know what's next) IB!!!!<<<
Yes, yes, our liberal educrats LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, every educational fad that comes down the pike. The latest is making GT programs SO large that everyone can be gifted! Even students who functioning below grade level can be in a GT center! Isn't that grand? Every GT center now has remedial classes for those students who are below grade level, to help them 'realize their potential'.
Why don't we give every parent in the county a bumper sticker that says 'my child is gifted' and be done with it?
The larger problem, for the children, is that our democrat school board members also LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, every educational fad that staff brings to their attention, regardless of how much the community objects, if the community even has the opportunity to object before the latest flakey, dumbed down, program, is implemented.
Yes, yes, our liberal educrats LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, every educational fad that comes down the pike. The latest is making GT programs SO large that everyone can be gifted! Even students who functioning below grade level can be in a GT center! Isn't that grand? Every GT center now has remedial classes for those students who are below grade level, to help them 'realize their potential'.
Why don't we give every parent in the county a bumper sticker that says 'my child is gifted' and be done with it?
The larger problem, for the children, is that our democrat school board members also LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, every educational fad that staff brings to their attention, regardless of how much the community objects, if the community even has the opportunity to object before the latest flakey, dumbed down, program, is implemented.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:37AM
>>>No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports don't have enough kids going out for their teams. And not knowing the other kids in the school is a why.<<<
Totally wrong. Kids who go to TJ don't go for the sports. Nor do their parents send them to TJ to play sports. Surely you don't think all those geeks on the math team and computer team and the physics team really want to play football.
Totally wrong. Kids who go to TJ don't go for the sports. Nor do their parents send them to TJ to play sports. Surely you don't think all those geeks on the math team and computer team and the physics team really want to play football.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:41AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every GT center now has
> remedial classes for those students who are below
> grade level, to help them 'realize their
> potential'.
No doubt this could be overdone. At the same time, I've known kids who were gifted in math but challenged in reading, gifted in music but challenged in science. I'm sure you have too. Is there no room in your GT program for those kids?
> democrat school
You did it again, Madame McCarthyite.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:41AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every GT center now has
> remedial classes for those students who are below
> grade level, to help them 'realize their
> potential'.
No doubt this could be overdone. At the same time, I've known kids who were gifted in math but challenged in reading, gifted in music but challenged in science. I'm sure you have too. Is there no room in your GT program for those kids?
> democrat school
You did it again, Madame McCarthyite.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:41AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:44AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports don't
> have enough kids going out for their teams. And
> not knowing the other kids in the school is a
> why.<<<
>
> Totally wrong. Kids who go to TJ don't go for the
> sports. Nor do their parents send them to TJ to
> play sports. Surely you don't think all those
> geeks on the math team and computer team and the
> physics team really want to play football.
Then who is it with all those bumper stickers with "Thomas Jeferson Technical High School we came for the sports"? A bunch of imposters?
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports don't
> have enough kids going out for their teams. And
> not knowing the other kids in the school is a
> why.<<<
>
> Totally wrong. Kids who go to TJ don't go for the
> sports. Nor do their parents send them to TJ to
> play sports. Surely you don't think all those
> geeks on the math team and computer team and the
> physics team really want to play football.
Then who is it with all those bumper stickers with "Thomas Jeferson Technical High School we came for the sports"? A bunch of imposters?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:44AM
People at boundary change meetings always use sports as a reason to not be redistricted. People in the Madison island will point out that their kids play sports in Vienna, VYL. But it NEVER matters. Sports have never been a compelling reason to avoid transferring students. They won't be this time either.
The bottom line is that if Stu wins, he decides who goes to South Lakes. Ditto if Kathy wins. Kathy, Janie, and Stu have already played 'let's make a deal' and they know exactly who will go to South Lakes and who won't. Community meetings won't make a bit of difference, they never do. The only way to have any say in what will happen is to not elect Kathy and Stu. The community has no other way to have any input into what happens. All this speculation about neighborhoods and sports really will not matter if Kathy and Stu win, the community will have no say in what happens. Kathy, Janie, and Stu have already decided. If Kathy and Stu lose, everything opens up again and the community will be consulted, first, deals will not have been made and the future decided.
The bottom line is that if Stu wins, he decides who goes to South Lakes. Ditto if Kathy wins. Kathy, Janie, and Stu have already played 'let's make a deal' and they know exactly who will go to South Lakes and who won't. Community meetings won't make a bit of difference, they never do. The only way to have any say in what will happen is to not elect Kathy and Stu. The community has no other way to have any input into what happens. All this speculation about neighborhoods and sports really will not matter if Kathy and Stu win, the community will have no say in what happens. Kathy, Janie, and Stu have already decided. If Kathy and Stu lose, everything opens up again and the community will be consulted, first, deals will not have been made and the future decided.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:46AM
Thomas,
We have that exact TJ sticker on one of our cars! My first child and his friends thought it was hilarious, because, of course, no one goes to TJ for the sports!
You KNEW it was a joke, right?
We have that exact TJ sticker on one of our cars! My first child and his friends thought it was hilarious, because, of course, no one goes to TJ for the sports!
You KNEW it was a joke, right?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:49AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You KNEW it was a joke, right?
The TJ athletic boosters don't think its a joke but everyone else does, da?
-------------------------------------------------------
> You KNEW it was a joke, right?
The TJ athletic boosters don't think its a joke but everyone else does, da?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:55AM
It is fairly rare for a student who is very gifted in math to not also be gifted in reading and the other subjects. Most students don't score over 700 in math and below 600 in Verbal. Kids are usually pretty close in scores. Kids in the GT centers who need remedial work need it for both subjects. They are simply below average students who the GT office hopes will someday be gifted by virtue of being in a GT center. It's their latest fad, below average students added to GT centers. In Reston, a few years back, one GT class had a child with Down syndrome. It was not good for the child, she learned nothing, but the kids in the class were very nice to her. She was something of the class pet, very protected by her classmates, but no lessons aimed at her level, so she made little educational progress. The new idea of remedial classes in GT centers would have helped her, but I fail to see why we need to put below average students in GT centers. Why not let them remain in the base school until they become magically become gifted, or at least function at grade level? I can't begin to explain how educrats think.
Just as most voters don't know why Dale Evans has cowboy boots on his road signs, most people here have no idea why you call me Mrs.McCarthy. You're dating yourself.
Just as most voters don't know why Dale Evans has cowboy boots on his road signs, most people here have no idea why you call me Mrs.McCarthy. You're dating yourself.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:57AM
Thomas,
Yes, even the TJ boosters know it's a joke and sell it as such. Da.
I remember when we bought the sticker, everyone was laughing, and we bought it from the boosters.
Seriously, you knew it was a joke, right? No one goes to TJ for the sports! That's why it's funny! duh.
Yes, even the TJ boosters know it's a joke and sell it as such. Da.
I remember when we bought the sticker, everyone was laughing, and we bought it from the boosters.
Seriously, you knew it was a joke, right? No one goes to TJ for the sports! That's why it's funny! duh.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:02AM
Oh, forgot to add, we don't have GT centers for the musically gifted or those gifted in science. (To be gifted in science, one has to be gifted in math. If you can't do math, you can't do physics or engineering.)
Our centers are for academically gifted, not gifted in music, or dance, or art. Some people are naturally socially gifted but we don't have centers for them either. Perhaps we should have those kinds of centers too, but we don't. We do have programs for those who are gifted in sports, they're called sports programs. ;)
Our centers are for academically gifted, not gifted in music, or dance, or art. Some people are naturally socially gifted but we don't have centers for them either. Perhaps we should have those kinds of centers too, but we don't. We do have programs for those who are gifted in sports, they're called sports programs. ;)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:02AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is fairly rare for a student who is very gifted
> in math to not also be gifted in reading and the
> other subjects.
Actually not true. Intelligences come in up to 15 different measurable forms. That's the fallacy of the IQ test. It doesn't measure many forms of intelligence at all.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is fairly rare for a student who is very gifted
> in math to not also be gifted in reading and the
> other subjects.
Actually not true. Intelligences come in up to 15 different measurable forms. That's the fallacy of the IQ test. It doesn't measure many forms of intelligence at all.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:07AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (To be gifted in science, one has to be gifted in
> math. If you can't do math, you can't do physics
> or engineering.)
Many of the great scientists were not and are not good at mathematics. They had great observational skills. They had great imagination or insights. Yes the physicists, chemists and astronomers need mathematics but anatomists, paleotologists and anthropologists are far less dependant on math.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:11AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> (To be gifted in science, one has to be gifted in
> math. If you can't do math, you can't do physics
> or engineering.)
Many of the great scientists were not and are not good at mathematics. They had great observational skills. They had great imagination or insights. Yes the physicists, chemists and astronomers need mathematics but anatomists, paleotologists and anthropologists are far less dependant on math.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:11AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:09AM
Neen
Back to Floris, why do you want to punish those kids by making them commute so far when Chantilly is right across the street practically?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:11AM by Thomas More.
Back to Floris, why do you want to punish those kids by making them commute so far when Chantilly is right across the street practically?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:11AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:15AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just as most voters don't know why Dale Evans has
> cowboy boots on his road signs,
I thought Dale Evans was a woman and has been dead for some time.
> You're dating yourself.
If I was worried about that would I have chosen this nom de guerre.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:16AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just as most voters don't know why Dale Evans has
> cowboy boots on his road signs,
I thought Dale Evans was a woman and has been dead for some time.
> You're dating yourself.
If I was worried about that would I have chosen this nom de guerre.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 01:16AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 01:59AM
Hahaha............that's true.
I asked my children tonight who Dale Evans was, they had no idea, other than the current candidate for clerk. The current Dale Evans picked an odd symbol for FC and voters 18 to 50. Oh well. No one thought he would win anyway.
It's not MY Idea to send the Floris kids to South Lakes. Personally, I don't think they should be immune from this round of redistricting since they've already been moved in the last 5 years. I'm simply telling you what I think will happen, Floris and McNair to South Lakes. It's the most simple solution, upsetting the fewest neighborhoods, AND, both schools are in Stu's district so no other SB member's district need to be upset. (Yes, I know part of Floris is in Sully, isn't it?) Chantilly is too crowded to send Floris there.
The point of all of this is to reduce crowding at Westfield, and possibly Chantilly, and to fill South Lakes. So, wouldn't it make sense to schools out of Westfield and send them to South Lakes, rather than the whole domino thing, with so many different schools?
Of course we don't know what the new and improved projections will show, so we are at something of a disadvantage in predicting anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 02:00AM by Neen.
I asked my children tonight who Dale Evans was, they had no idea, other than the current candidate for clerk. The current Dale Evans picked an odd symbol for FC and voters 18 to 50. Oh well. No one thought he would win anyway.
It's not MY Idea to send the Floris kids to South Lakes. Personally, I don't think they should be immune from this round of redistricting since they've already been moved in the last 5 years. I'm simply telling you what I think will happen, Floris and McNair to South Lakes. It's the most simple solution, upsetting the fewest neighborhoods, AND, both schools are in Stu's district so no other SB member's district need to be upset. (Yes, I know part of Floris is in Sully, isn't it?) Chantilly is too crowded to send Floris there.
The point of all of this is to reduce crowding at Westfield, and possibly Chantilly, and to fill South Lakes. So, wouldn't it make sense to schools out of Westfield and send them to South Lakes, rather than the whole domino thing, with so many different schools?
Of course we don't know what the new and improved projections will show, so we are at something of a disadvantage in predicting anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 02:00AM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 02:02AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
(Yes, I know part of Floris is in Sully,
> isn't it?)
Isn't most of Floris in Sully and only a bit, if that, in Hunter Mill.
-------------------------------------------------------
(Yes, I know part of Floris is in Sully,
> isn't it?)
Isn't most of Floris in Sully and only a bit, if that, in Hunter Mill.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 02:49AM
Floris, the school itself is in Hunter Mill so I assume some of the students must also be in Hunter Mill.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 03:02AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris, the school itself is in Hunter Mill so I
> assume some of the students must also be in Hunter
> Mill.
Only the northern most 25% of the land area of Floris is in hunter mill. Would the Sully board member let his constituents be treated that way? Too tough to see it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris, the school itself is in Hunter Mill so I
> assume some of the students must also be in Hunter
> Mill.
Only the northern most 25% of the land area of Floris is in hunter mill. Would the Sully board member let his constituents be treated that way? Too tough to see it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 04:07AM
If Floris isn't her school, Kathy has less say in what happens to it. The unwritten rule is that school board members don't mess with schools that belong to another school board member.
If Stu decides that it's best for Floris to move to South Lakes, Kathy will not object since it's not her school but his.
It would be the same if Stu decided to move Berryland out of Madison to South Lakes. Berryland is in Sully but Madison is Stu's school and so is South Lakes. She would defer to him because they are his schools. That's how they do it.
Of course all of this is moot (pardon the legal expression) if Stu or Kathy lose on Tuesday. All deals are off. John Litzenberger may well fight Stu on taking any of his students from Sully.
BTW why did you vote for the at large people supported by StopRd? Do you want them to stop the redistricting? I know why you voted against Stu, because he has done nothing for South Lakes, or any other Reston or Vienna school.
I find it interesting that Stu brags about his experience on the school board but nowhere does he talk about any accomplishments! Who cares if he has set on the board and other things but has never done anything! How about some results? Some accomplishments? Oh yeh, he has fussed a lot about NCLB too. Not actually changed it in any way, just complained a lot. It would appear that he thinks whining counts as an accomplishment.
If Stu decides that it's best for Floris to move to South Lakes, Kathy will not object since it's not her school but his.
It would be the same if Stu decided to move Berryland out of Madison to South Lakes. Berryland is in Sully but Madison is Stu's school and so is South Lakes. She would defer to him because they are his schools. That's how they do it.
Of course all of this is moot (pardon the legal expression) if Stu or Kathy lose on Tuesday. All deals are off. John Litzenberger may well fight Stu on taking any of his students from Sully.
BTW why did you vote for the at large people supported by StopRd? Do you want them to stop the redistricting? I know why you voted against Stu, because he has done nothing for South Lakes, or any other Reston or Vienna school.
I find it interesting that Stu brags about his experience on the school board but nowhere does he talk about any accomplishments! Who cares if he has set on the board and other things but has never done anything! How about some results? Some accomplishments? Oh yeh, he has fussed a lot about NCLB too. Not actually changed it in any way, just complained a lot. It would appear that he thinks whining counts as an accomplishment.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
resource allocation
()
Date: November 04, 2007 08:10AM
Stu Gibson has a lot of extra funding in his schools. Has Hunters Woods outlived it's purpose as a magnet school? It's perpetually overcrowded. Why continue with it? I guess other magisterial district board members don't argue with Gibson or are increasing their funding via FLES-Foreign Language in the Elementary Schools.
Why do 2 neighboring schools in the Reston/Herndon area have Japanese Immersion removing access for entire sections of the county? Why does Kent Gardens [Dranesville] have such a high volume of extra funding? That site is in a nice area of Mclean and in the move to put GT cenetrs back in base schools cannot hold the kids...they will be bussed to Churchill Rd which has a modular.
Why did Hughes and some other schools get IBMSY? Marshall's feeder schools do not have it and some students get the IB diploma. Does South Lakes [and any other IB school] have a class size problem because of the IB program? Does it divert ratioed staff to required higher level courses making the other classes have higher pupil teacher ratios? I don't like it - nor will anyone reboundaried if they realize what is happening and find their kid in larger class sizes than they saw at the prior school.
South Lakes is not surrounded by a vast sea of poverty - it is surrounded by an ocean of AP schools. The South Lakes school facility is a public resource that has been mismanaged by successive school boards. Granted they cannot move people in to only to achieve racial balance but they do have a fiduciary obligation to taxpayers in this county.
Gibson's IB obsession is not shared by people in surrounding schools. It does cost extra money since FCPS pays an outside vendor for courses/curriculum while simultaneously having instructional services people on staff. The best thing he's done was the Madison dialogue on start times- one big fat blockade in that was TJ. Should that drive the engine?
What is the CIP/construction/capacity situation in schools around TJ? Should the TJ program be dispersed between multiple schools expanding it's enrollment?
The main criteria for boundaries should be proximity - fill with the walkers, then areas that border other jurisdictions, then move on from there using existing capacity...change program locations. GT center middle schools need to be dispersed back to base schools. The CIP needs to be reworked without modulars where buildings have not had permanent adjustments to core capacities.
Additions should only be built at schools that are central to their service areas.
One FX county CIP document actually had the Langley addition positioned near Herndon HS on a map --that was in the time period when it went on the bond referendum.
Why do 2 neighboring schools in the Reston/Herndon area have Japanese Immersion removing access for entire sections of the county? Why does Kent Gardens [Dranesville] have such a high volume of extra funding? That site is in a nice area of Mclean and in the move to put GT cenetrs back in base schools cannot hold the kids...they will be bussed to Churchill Rd which has a modular.
Why did Hughes and some other schools get IBMSY? Marshall's feeder schools do not have it and some students get the IB diploma. Does South Lakes [and any other IB school] have a class size problem because of the IB program? Does it divert ratioed staff to required higher level courses making the other classes have higher pupil teacher ratios? I don't like it - nor will anyone reboundaried if they realize what is happening and find their kid in larger class sizes than they saw at the prior school.
South Lakes is not surrounded by a vast sea of poverty - it is surrounded by an ocean of AP schools. The South Lakes school facility is a public resource that has been mismanaged by successive school boards. Granted they cannot move people in to only to achieve racial balance but they do have a fiduciary obligation to taxpayers in this county.
Gibson's IB obsession is not shared by people in surrounding schools. It does cost extra money since FCPS pays an outside vendor for courses/curriculum while simultaneously having instructional services people on staff. The best thing he's done was the Madison dialogue on start times- one big fat blockade in that was TJ. Should that drive the engine?
What is the CIP/construction/capacity situation in schools around TJ? Should the TJ program be dispersed between multiple schools expanding it's enrollment?
The main criteria for boundaries should be proximity - fill with the walkers, then areas that border other jurisdictions, then move on from there using existing capacity...change program locations. GT center middle schools need to be dispersed back to base schools. The CIP needs to be reworked without modulars where buildings have not had permanent adjustments to core capacities.
Additions should only be built at schools that are central to their service areas.
One FX county CIP document actually had the Langley addition positioned near Herndon HS on a map --that was in the time period when it went on the bond referendum.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VOTER
()
Date: November 04, 2007 08:14AM
...
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VOTER
()
Date: November 04, 2007 08:15AM
....
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 04, 2007 08:25AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.<<<
>
> EXACTLY!!! That's why Floris and McNair will go
> to South Lakes and everyone else will be left
> alone.
Don't be surprised when this doesn't happen.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.<<<
>
> EXACTLY!!! That's why Floris and McNair will go
> to South Lakes and everyone else will be left
> alone.
Don't be surprised when this doesn't happen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another Voter
()
Date: November 04, 2007 11:22AM
VOTER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....
I am surprised that none of the candidates that stoprd.org supports actually state that they will support a morotorium on redistricting. Do they actually support a morotorium or not? If this group is elected will they immediately launch a new boundary process that is fair and that truly addresses the following?
- Underenrollment at South Lakes (this, in my opinion, is a real problem that must be addressed ASAP)
- Attendance islands
- Disparities in commuting distance that detract from "community" high schools
- Has appropriate socio-economic balance
John Litzenberger http://www.coachlitz.com/issues.shtml#parental
Chris Braunlich http://www.chrisbraunlich.org/issues4.htm
Paul Constantino http://www.paulcostantino.com/index.php
James Raney http://jimraney.com/redistricting.aspx
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....
I am surprised that none of the candidates that stoprd.org supports actually state that they will support a morotorium on redistricting. Do they actually support a morotorium or not? If this group is elected will they immediately launch a new boundary process that is fair and that truly addresses the following?
- Underenrollment at South Lakes (this, in my opinion, is a real problem that must be addressed ASAP)
- Attendance islands
- Disparities in commuting distance that detract from "community" high schools
- Has appropriate socio-economic balance
John Litzenberger http://www.coachlitz.com/issues.shtml#parental
Chris Braunlich http://www.chrisbraunlich.org/issues4.htm
Paul Constantino http://www.paulcostantino.com/index.php
James Raney http://jimraney.com/redistricting.aspx
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer - oakton are notes
()
Date: November 04, 2007 11:22AM
http://www.dartmoorwoods.com/smithmeeting.htm
interesting website with info on a 10-18-07 meeting with kathy smith.
one Q & A from smith who seems to not realize Langley and South County are in the same jurisdiction as Oakton/South Lakes, etc:
Many questions and comments were made about people moving here or choosing this neighborhood specifically for the schools. Kathy reiterated that Fairfax County is a dynamic place, and there is no economically feasible way to operate our schools without adjusting boundaries when necessary.
interesting website with info on a 10-18-07 meeting with kathy smith.
one Q & A from smith who seems to not realize Langley and South County are in the same jurisdiction as Oakton/South Lakes, etc:
Many questions and comments were made about people moving here or choosing this neighborhood specifically for the schools. Kathy reiterated that Fairfax County is a dynamic place, and there is no economically feasible way to operate our schools without adjusting boundaries when necessary.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Pal
()
Date: November 04, 2007 11:30AM
Why not give Stu the problem of overcrowding at South Lakes? We all saw what happened at McNair. Why can't the area immediately south of Frying Pan Road just east of HWY 28 (currently not developed) and the area to the north of there between Hwy 28 and Centerville Rd to the Tollway? This area has been built up extremily fast and it will continue. Many students will show up from this, This could be McNair fourfold. This area is immediately west of MCNair so in order to prevent an island thus McNair needs to go to South Lakes.
On another note, I experience first hand the negative side of going to a less than stellar school in another state. The classroom distractions, intimidation and threats that occur in unmonitored areas such as locker rooms, bathrooms is something I don't want my kids to go through. I'm sorry if it insults anyone if I want a June and Ward Cleaver education for my kids.
On another note, I experience first hand the negative side of going to a less than stellar school in another state. The classroom distractions, intimidation and threats that occur in unmonitored areas such as locker rooms, bathrooms is something I don't want my kids to go through. I'm sorry if it insults anyone if I want a June and Ward Cleaver education for my kids.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another Voter
()
Date: November 04, 2007 11:37AM
Another Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VOTER Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ....
>
> I am surprised that none of the candidates that
> stoprd.org supports actually state that they will
> support a morotorium on redistricting. Do they
> actually support a morotorium or not? If this
> group is elected will they immediately launch a
> new boundary process that is fair and that truly
> addresses the following?
>
> - Underenrollment at South Lakes (this, in my
> opinion, is a real problem that must be addressed
> ASAP)
> - Attendance islands
> - Disparities in commuting distance that detract
> from "community" high schools
> - Has appropriate socio-economic balance
Forgot to add:
- Includes middle schools and at least Madison and Langley High School
>
>
> John Litzenberger
> http://www.coachlitz.com/issues.shtml#parental
>
> Chris Braunlich
> http://www.chrisbraunlich.org/issues4.htm
>
> Paul Constantino
> http://www.paulcostantino.com/index.php
>
> James Raney
> http://jimraney.com/redistricting.aspx
-------------------------------------------------------
> VOTER Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ....
>
> I am surprised that none of the candidates that
> stoprd.org supports actually state that they will
> support a morotorium on redistricting. Do they
> actually support a morotorium or not? If this
> group is elected will they immediately launch a
> new boundary process that is fair and that truly
> addresses the following?
>
> - Underenrollment at South Lakes (this, in my
> opinion, is a real problem that must be addressed
> ASAP)
> - Attendance islands
> - Disparities in commuting distance that detract
> from "community" high schools
> - Has appropriate socio-economic balance
Forgot to add:
- Includes middle schools and at least Madison and Langley High School
>
>
> John Litzenberger
> http://www.coachlitz.com/issues.shtml#parental
>
> Chris Braunlich
> http://www.chrisbraunlich.org/issues4.htm
>
> Paul Constantino
> http://www.paulcostantino.com/index.php
>
> James Raney
> http://jimraney.com/redistricting.aspx
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
StoptheSlander
()
Date: November 04, 2007 11:42AM
Pal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On another note, I experience first hand the
> negative side of going to a less than stellar
> school in another state. The classroom
> distractions, intimidation and threats that occur
> in unmonitored areas such as locker rooms,
> bathrooms is something I don't want my kids to go
> through. I'm sorry if it insults anyone if I want
> a June and Ward Cleaver education for my kids.
When have you ever heard of this happening at South Lakes? It doesn't! It probably happens more at the "stellar" schools than at South Lakes! Your comparisons don't apply. Please refrain from making them.
-------------------------------------------------------
> On another note, I experience first hand the
> negative side of going to a less than stellar
> school in another state. The classroom
> distractions, intimidation and threats that occur
> in unmonitored areas such as locker rooms,
> bathrooms is something I don't want my kids to go
> through. I'm sorry if it insults anyone if I want
> a June and Ward Cleaver education for my kids.
When have you ever heard of this happening at South Lakes? It doesn't! It probably happens more at the "stellar" schools than at South Lakes! Your comparisons don't apply. Please refrain from making them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
oddities
()
Date: November 04, 2007 12:10PM
> > ...classroom
> > distractions, intimidation and threats that
> occur
> > in unmonitored areas such as locker rooms,
> > bathrooms is something I don't want my kids to
> go
> > through...
And you think it doesn't happen at schools like Langley? That stuff is a function of the administrators and Butler and Co are better than Clendaniel's crew. Last year when students vandalized even Church property for spirit week. Been there seen that...
Get rid of IB and Stu's Expectational Cooking Class and South Lakes should be more than fine. The school board is exercising racial prejudice with this Langley business...the same for the county that had released a CIP with Langley in the wrong place on the map a few years ago. Looked like Herndon. FCPS doesn't even have Woody's or Bowl America Sterling/Herndon on it's driving direction list. Since it has other similar sites, I guess they were puposefully left off or removed so people couldn't get the true picture quickly.
> > distractions, intimidation and threats that
> occur
> > in unmonitored areas such as locker rooms,
> > bathrooms is something I don't want my kids to
> go
> > through...
And you think it doesn't happen at schools like Langley? That stuff is a function of the administrators and Butler and Co are better than Clendaniel's crew. Last year when students vandalized even Church property for spirit week. Been there seen that...
Get rid of IB and Stu's Expectational Cooking Class and South Lakes should be more than fine. The school board is exercising racial prejudice with this Langley business...the same for the county that had released a CIP with Langley in the wrong place on the map a few years ago. Looked like Herndon. FCPS doesn't even have Woody's or Bowl America Sterling/Herndon on it's driving direction list. Since it has other similar sites, I guess they were puposefully left off or removed so people couldn't get the true picture quickly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 03:09PM
Remember the discussion of Linda Jone's lassitude...
Turns out she hasn't gotten a fastpitch coach yet. Winter work outs for most high school teams will start in 6 weeks and the softball team doesn't have a coach, or an assitant or a jv coach. She has the best softball facilities in the County and no coach.
There was a special ed teacher at Langston who's been a varsity assistant coach. What's Linda waiting for Xmas?
Linda used to play softball at SL; maybe she'll coach the team.
Turns out she hasn't gotten a fastpitch coach yet. Winter work outs for most high school teams will start in 6 weeks and the softball team doesn't have a coach, or an assitant or a jv coach. She has the best softball facilities in the County and no coach.
There was a special ed teacher at Langston who's been a varsity assistant coach. What's Linda waiting for Xmas?
Linda used to play softball at SL; maybe she'll coach the team.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 04, 2007 03:37PM
Thats not anything new. The girls field hockey and lacrosse teams NEVER have a coach. Last spring they asked the jv field hockey coach to also coach lacrosse... she had never played before!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 04, 2007 04:07PM
The Post had a wonderful article today on a principal at a small elementary school in Montgomery County with very little support and structure that transformed the academic success rates (by a lot, in fact). How did she do so - by telling the administration to back off, and let her establish ability groups - tracking by any name but very effective. Tracking, of course, is anathema to so many diversicrats but this principal (a black woman who must motor around in an electric chair) just cares about what works as opposed to whose feelings are hurt, She does consistently emphasize the positives and diminish the negatives in a way appropriate to elementary school - my guess is that any similar approach with high school students would have to be more edgy that her elementary school approach. But nevertheless her absolute focus on math and reading fundamentals, and having those fundamentals taught within appropriate ability groups (which makes such common sense - most any teacher teaches to the middle of any class) is what seems to be the driver. My question is this when it comes to public education - do principals like this have to fall from the heavens to get any progress - and why can't school officials adopt this kind of thing immediately, all over. The progress is remarkable - in 2003 the ESOL students went from 8 percent passing in math and science to well over 70 percent in 2007. Why can't we expect the same here in Fairfax, and really, if we get rid of the politically correct shibboleths and get down to business, wouldn't issues like the school redistricting largely go away?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 04:41PM
TOStito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thats not anything new. The girls field hockey and
> lacrosse teams NEVER have a coach. Last spring
> they asked the jv field hockey coach to also coach
> lacrosse... she had never played before!!!
Coach English used to have terrific field hockey teams. It was to placate her that Henthorn put the bermuda grass on the baseball field.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thats not anything new. The girls field hockey and
> lacrosse teams NEVER have a coach. Last spring
> they asked the jv field hockey coach to also coach
> lacrosse... she had never played before!!!
Coach English used to have terrific field hockey teams. It was to placate her that Henthorn put the bermuda grass on the baseball field.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 04, 2007 04:48PM
I know I was referring to the past couple of years. Coach English has been gone for 4 years now.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 04, 2007 04:55PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TOStito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thats not anything new. The girls field hockey
> and
> > lacrosse teams NEVER have a coach. Last spring
> > they asked the jv field hockey coach to also
> coach
> > lacrosse... she had never played before!!!
>
> Coach English used to have terrific field hockey
> teams. It was to placate her that Henthorn put
> the bermuda grass on the baseball field.
If my kids do get sent to SL, I assumed that one of the silver linings would be the easier time making the sports teams that require try outs (seems like a pulse is all that's required to be on the football team at Oakton also, but that could be just my interpretation of huge roster). From checking out the SL website, I can't tell if there is freshman boy's lax. I realize that this is something specific to my kids and not really important to anyone else reading the message board, but if anyone happens to know about this, I'd be much obliged.
-------------------------------------------------------
> TOStito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thats not anything new. The girls field hockey
> and
> > lacrosse teams NEVER have a coach. Last spring
> > they asked the jv field hockey coach to also
> coach
> > lacrosse... she had never played before!!!
>
> Coach English used to have terrific field hockey
> teams. It was to placate her that Henthorn put
> the bermuda grass on the baseball field.
If my kids do get sent to SL, I assumed that one of the silver linings would be the easier time making the sports teams that require try outs (seems like a pulse is all that's required to be on the football team at Oakton also, but that could be just my interpretation of huge roster). From checking out the SL website, I can't tell if there is freshman boy's lax. I realize that this is something specific to my kids and not really important to anyone else reading the message board, but if anyone happens to know about this, I'd be much obliged.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 04, 2007 05:06PM
There is a JV and Varsity Boys Lacrosse team. There is no need for a freshman team, the freshmen make JV and the sport is not popular enough yet to require a freshman team. Your kids will make it. If they have youth lacrosse experience, they might even make varsity freshman year.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 04, 2007 05:08PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if
> there is freshman boy's lax. I realize that this
> is something specific to my kids and not really
> important to anyone else reading the message
> board, but if anyone happens to know about this,
> I'd be much obliged.
All FFX high schools have the same number of teams in each sport. If Oakton has a freshman lax team, so will SL. The only caveat is if there aren't enough SL lax freshman to make up a whole squad in which case the freshman would be on jv.
-------------------------------------------------------
> if
> there is freshman boy's lax. I realize that this
> is something specific to my kids and not really
> important to anyone else reading the message
> board, but if anyone happens to know about this,
> I'd be much obliged.
All FFX high schools have the same number of teams in each sport. If Oakton has a freshman lax team, so will SL. The only caveat is if there aren't enough SL lax freshman to make up a whole squad in which case the freshman would be on jv.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 04, 2007 05:56PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent,
If you want more information regarding the South Lakes Boys Lax team, check out their team website: southlakeslacrosse.org
If you want more information regarding the South Lakes Boys Lax team, check out their team website: southlakeslacrosse.org
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 04, 2007 06:08PM
And SLHS head lax coach Matt Blamey is a nice and good young guy. So if you wanted to email him about the program, he'd be happy to speak with you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 04, 2007 06:12PM
His email is on the South Lakes lax website, but I think it is coachblamey@southlakeslacrosse.com. Btw: the team is improving but any kid will get a chance to play, esp at JV. Experienced, skilled freshmen tend to make Varsity and there are a number of first-timers (who don't play baseball or soccer at HS) who play JV.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
wondering mom
()
Date: November 04, 2007 06:33PM
I read with great interest your back and forth dialogs....My kids go to Floris and reading betweeen the lines...there is an "informational" meeting tomorrow at NcNair about the so called "IB" crap. My feeling is that they are trying to prepare us for the inevitable...meaning that the upcoming meetings are just charades Stu and Linda play....I am going to vote on Tuesday and hopefully they will vote them off. One of my neighbors had the "audacity" of calling Stu and inquiry about the boundaries....STU hung up on him!!! He is showing his true colors, and does not deserve to be reelected. I read with great interest the Washington Post article about Hughes Middle....Fairfax County is draining money for a bunch of baloney.
My question to you all is that is Hunter Woods is so great as a magnet school, then why kids go to Rachel Carson instead of Hughes Middle.....Because they know better...it is a terrible school along with South Lakes.
My kids will go to private school if the powers that be determine that Floris should feed into SL!
My question to you all is that is Hunter Woods is so great as a magnet school, then why kids go to Rachel Carson instead of Hughes Middle.....Because they know better...it is a terrible school along with South Lakes.
My kids will go to private school if the powers that be determine that Floris should feed into SL!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 04, 2007 06:49PM
Oh wondering mom, have fun paying for private school when you could have gotten a fine eduation at South Lakes. Way to really look into the issues before making your decision. You're doing your children a wonderful service!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 04, 2007 06:50PM
Pal:
Move to Bedford Falls.
There are are Eddie Haskells everywhere.
Move to Bedford Falls.
There are are Eddie Haskells everywhere.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 04, 2007 07:10PM
Wondering Mom:
Hunters Woods kids go to Carson for the same reason that Sunrise Valley GT kids to Hughes, Kilmer, Jackson, and even Longfellow: that's their neighborhood's pyramid middle school.
When my son finished at Sunrise Valley, it amused me at end-6th grade events when other (non-Hughes) parents would find out he was going to Hughes that there would be an awkward pause -- like when one learns of a deadly illness or a broken marriage -- and even some lamentations. Now he and his fellow SV/Hughes classmates are loving Hughes, and he does not have to avoid the hallways, lunchroom, or after-school stuff. And - hey -- his neighborhood friends that went to Terraset, Dogwood, Lake Anne, Hunters Woods, and home school all are doing the same.
More bad info, but get out your checkbook -- your choice.
Hunters Woods kids go to Carson for the same reason that Sunrise Valley GT kids to Hughes, Kilmer, Jackson, and even Longfellow: that's their neighborhood's pyramid middle school.
When my son finished at Sunrise Valley, it amused me at end-6th grade events when other (non-Hughes) parents would find out he was going to Hughes that there would be an awkward pause -- like when one learns of a deadly illness or a broken marriage -- and even some lamentations. Now he and his fellow SV/Hughes classmates are loving Hughes, and he does not have to avoid the hallways, lunchroom, or after-school stuff. And - hey -- his neighborhood friends that went to Terraset, Dogwood, Lake Anne, Hunters Woods, and home school all are doing the same.
More bad info, but get out your checkbook -- your choice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VOTER
()
Date: November 04, 2007 07:37PM
...
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 04, 2007 10:15PM
Padre,
I have everything Bedford Falls has right here in Oak Hill.
Please vote for C. Arakelian!!!!!
I have everything Bedford Falls has right here in Oak Hill.
Please vote for C. Arakelian!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 11:46PM
Cricket said
>>>Don't be surprised when this doesn't happen.<<<
I won't be surprised if Stu changes his mind, assuming he's in a position where he can do that, with any influence.
It's just my guess that McNair and Floris will go to South Lakes. What is your best guess?
>>>Don't be surprised when this doesn't happen.<<<
I won't be surprised if Stu changes his mind, assuming he's in a position where he can do that, with any influence.
It's just my guess that McNair and Floris will go to South Lakes. What is your best guess?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 04, 2007 11:59PM
Quantum said:
>>>> The Post had a wonderful article today on a principal at a small elementary school in Montgomery County with very little support and structure that transformed the academic success rates (by a lot, in fact). How did she do so - by telling the administration to back off, and let her establish ability groups - tracking by any name but very effective. Tracking, of course, is anathema to so many diversicrats but this principal (a black woman who must motor around in an electric chair) just cares about what works as opposed to whose feelings are hurt, She does consistently emphasize the positives and diminish the negatives in a way appropriate to elementary school - my guess is that any similar approach with high school students would have to be more edgy that her elementary school approach. But nevertheless her absolute focus on math and reading fundamentals, and having those fundamentals taught within appropriate ability groups (which makes such common sense - most any teacher teaches to the middle of any class) is what seems to be the driver. My question is this when it comes to public education - do principals like this have to fall from the heavens to get any progress - and why can't school officials adopt this kind of thing immediately, all over. The progress is remarkable - in 2003 the ESOL students went from 8 percent passing in math and science to well over 70 percent in 2007. Why can't we expect the same here in Fairfax, and really, if we get rid of the politically correct shibboleths and get down to business, wouldn't issues like the school redistricting largely go away?<<<
I urge EVERYONE to read this article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/03/AR2007110301167.html
We could do this in Fairfax tomorrow were it not for school board members like Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith and their liberal compatriots who do not 'believe in' ability grouping, despite ALL the evidence that it works. They 'feel' that mixed classes are much better, even if that means the teacher must teach to the middle and kids on the low end, and the high end, get left behind.
It's the liberal educrats who refuse to do what works, and continue hold back our most vulnerable students, and prevent their success. Our liberal politicians totally support and agree with them, despite overwhelming evidence against them. Instead, they'd rather get rid of any program, like NCLB, which PROVES we aren't educating these children. They'd rather shoot the messenger than change they the way they teach and help those students who need the most help.
There is NO excuse for Stu Gibson not improving Dogwood and McNair. He has NO excuse for not insisting that those schools use proven methods of educating those children EVEN if the staff doesn't want to use methods that work. Who is more important? The staff? Or the students? For Stu, it's quite clear that nothing is more important than his liberal ideology, even if it fails every child in his district. He should be ashamed of himself for what he's done to our poorest, most vulnerable children, those MOST in need of a REAL education. Shame on him. He could insist that they be educated, but he won't. His ideology prevents it. Disgusting.
>>>> The Post had a wonderful article today on a principal at a small elementary school in Montgomery County with very little support and structure that transformed the academic success rates (by a lot, in fact). How did she do so - by telling the administration to back off, and let her establish ability groups - tracking by any name but very effective. Tracking, of course, is anathema to so many diversicrats but this principal (a black woman who must motor around in an electric chair) just cares about what works as opposed to whose feelings are hurt, She does consistently emphasize the positives and diminish the negatives in a way appropriate to elementary school - my guess is that any similar approach with high school students would have to be more edgy that her elementary school approach. But nevertheless her absolute focus on math and reading fundamentals, and having those fundamentals taught within appropriate ability groups (which makes such common sense - most any teacher teaches to the middle of any class) is what seems to be the driver. My question is this when it comes to public education - do principals like this have to fall from the heavens to get any progress - and why can't school officials adopt this kind of thing immediately, all over. The progress is remarkable - in 2003 the ESOL students went from 8 percent passing in math and science to well over 70 percent in 2007. Why can't we expect the same here in Fairfax, and really, if we get rid of the politically correct shibboleths and get down to business, wouldn't issues like the school redistricting largely go away?<<<
I urge EVERYONE to read this article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/03/AR2007110301167.html
We could do this in Fairfax tomorrow were it not for school board members like Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith and their liberal compatriots who do not 'believe in' ability grouping, despite ALL the evidence that it works. They 'feel' that mixed classes are much better, even if that means the teacher must teach to the middle and kids on the low end, and the high end, get left behind.
It's the liberal educrats who refuse to do what works, and continue hold back our most vulnerable students, and prevent their success. Our liberal politicians totally support and agree with them, despite overwhelming evidence against them. Instead, they'd rather get rid of any program, like NCLB, which PROVES we aren't educating these children. They'd rather shoot the messenger than change they the way they teach and help those students who need the most help.
There is NO excuse for Stu Gibson not improving Dogwood and McNair. He has NO excuse for not insisting that those schools use proven methods of educating those children EVEN if the staff doesn't want to use methods that work. Who is more important? The staff? Or the students? For Stu, it's quite clear that nothing is more important than his liberal ideology, even if it fails every child in his district. He should be ashamed of himself for what he's done to our poorest, most vulnerable children, those MOST in need of a REAL education. Shame on him. He could insist that they be educated, but he won't. His ideology prevents it. Disgusting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:05AM
>>>Kathy reiterated that Fairfax County is a dynamic place, and there is no economically feasible way to operate our schools without adjusting boundaries when necessary.<<<
Oh really? Then why isn't Mount Vernon being redistricted When it has more empty seats (792) than South Lakes? And Falls Church too, which is only 65% occupied and has 692 empty seats?
Why is only South Lakes having forced boundary changes? Why was nothing else considered?
Kathy Smith has got to GO, vote for Litzenberger.
Oh really? Then why isn't Mount Vernon being redistricted When it has more empty seats (792) than South Lakes? And Falls Church too, which is only 65% occupied and has 692 empty seats?
Why is only South Lakes having forced boundary changes? Why was nothing else considered?
Kathy Smith has got to GO, vote for Litzenberger.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:10AM
>>>>One of my neighbors had the "audacity" of calling Stu and inquiry about the boundaries....STU hung up on him!!!<<<
Just who the heck does Stu Gibson think he works for? Contrary to what he may think, he works for US, the taxpayers and voters of Fairfax county. He is a 'public servant', not a servant of FCPS staff and the educrats. How DARE he hang up on a citizen!!! What a total jerk.
STU GIBSON MUST GO! NOW! WE NEED SOMEONE WHO WILL LISTEN TO PARENTS AND CITIZENS!
VOTE FOR CHRISTINE ARAKELIAN!
Just who the heck does Stu Gibson think he works for? Contrary to what he may think, he works for US, the taxpayers and voters of Fairfax county. He is a 'public servant', not a servant of FCPS staff and the educrats. How DARE he hang up on a citizen!!! What a total jerk.
STU GIBSON MUST GO! NOW! WE NEED SOMEONE WHO WILL LISTEN TO PARENTS AND CITIZENS!
VOTE FOR CHRISTINE ARAKELIAN!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:18AM
>>>Why did Hughes and some other schools get IBMSY?<<<
>>>>Why does Kent Gardens [Dranesville] have such a high volume of extra funding<<<
>>>>Why isn't Langley in the South Lakes boundary study?<<<<
>>>>Why is South Lakes having forced boundary changes but not other schools that are even more under enrolled, like Mount Vernon and Falls Church?<<<
Most of these questions, have the same answers, Stu Gibson and Janie Strauss get what they want. They are zealous supporters of staff, ALWAYS, any program that staff wants, no matter how silly, how unproven, or how much parental opposition it faces, Janie and Stu will support it. The favor is returned by staff, Stu and Janie get what they want in their districts. Quid pro quo.
As I've said, deals have been made. That's how it works. Stu, Janie, and Kathy will always get what they want from staff, regardless of what the public wants.
>>>>Why does Kent Gardens [Dranesville] have such a high volume of extra funding<<<
>>>>Why isn't Langley in the South Lakes boundary study?<<<<
>>>>Why is South Lakes having forced boundary changes but not other schools that are even more under enrolled, like Mount Vernon and Falls Church?<<<
Most of these questions, have the same answers, Stu Gibson and Janie Strauss get what they want. They are zealous supporters of staff, ALWAYS, any program that staff wants, no matter how silly, how unproven, or how much parental opposition it faces, Janie and Stu will support it. The favor is returned by staff, Stu and Janie get what they want in their districts. Quid pro quo.
As I've said, deals have been made. That's how it works. Stu, Janie, and Kathy will always get what they want from staff, regardless of what the public wants.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:26AM
>>>GT center middle schools need to be dispersed back to base schools.<<<
Many base middle schools, like Thoreau, have a real problem with this idea because it will mean that their school will be terribly overcrowded. Thoreau could face having 20+ trailers if all the GT students return to Thoreau. If Luther Jackson has NO middle school GT center they will have over 300 empty seats because they built an addition that wasn't necessary, and will sit empty, if they cannot force Vienna GT middle school student to go there. Do we overcrowd Thoreau by hundreds of students or force them to go to Luther Jackson, nowhere near where they live?
At this point, why would anyone in this county have any faith in school population predictions or FCPS redistricting plans? The people of this county would do a FAR better job than our school board and FCPS staff. The voters and taxpayers are much smarter and more competent.
I suppose that is damning with faint praise since no one could be worse at predictions and redistricting than our staff and school board.
Many base middle schools, like Thoreau, have a real problem with this idea because it will mean that their school will be terribly overcrowded. Thoreau could face having 20+ trailers if all the GT students return to Thoreau. If Luther Jackson has NO middle school GT center they will have over 300 empty seats because they built an addition that wasn't necessary, and will sit empty, if they cannot force Vienna GT middle school student to go there. Do we overcrowd Thoreau by hundreds of students or force them to go to Luther Jackson, nowhere near where they live?
At this point, why would anyone in this county have any faith in school population predictions or FCPS redistricting plans? The people of this county would do a FAR better job than our school board and FCPS staff. The voters and taxpayers are much smarter and more competent.
I suppose that is damning with faint praise since no one could be worse at predictions and redistricting than our staff and school board.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:41AM
This is amazing, I urge everyone in Sully district to read it:
http://www.dartmoorwoods.com/smithmeeting.htm
Among other things,
>>>>Madison High School has neighborhoods closer to South Lakes, a longer contiguous border, and is more overcrowded than Oakton, why is Madison not included in the study? This question was asked several times and ways. Kathy essentially stated that this was a staff decision made in July of this year and was a settled issue. Kathy did commit to getting an answer back to our community on this question.<<<
HUH??? Staff's decision? Staff decides?? Does the school board work for staff? Does staff dictate what will be done? Then why do we bother to elect a school board? Why are we electing people to work for staff? Silly me, I was under the impression that staff worked for school board.
>>>Oakton is not overcrowded, why is Oakton involved? A: (by Kathy) Proximity to South Lakes, and the fact that Oakton boundaries sit between Chantilly, Westfield and South Lakes. Staff recommendations to the Board was that Oakton should be included.<<<
Again, STAFF decides. Then I guess we don't need Kathy on the school board.
>>>What about the idea of a magnet school at South Lakes? Why not utilize an incentive such as that as opposed to the boundary process? Kathy stated that the magnet school option was not considered, not clear if it could be funded, was not timely and may not address the problem. Kathy mentioned that a Culinary Arts school was part of South Lakes.<<<<
A magnet school option wasn't considered? Why not? What exactly does the school board DO? It would appear that Kathy has NO impact on anything that is presented by staff.
>>>What about the safety issues at South Lakes? Kathy suggested that we contact the principal or security officer at South Lakes for that information.<<<
What a completely pitiful answer. This woman knows nothing and is responsible for nothing. Can someone tell me why she's on the school board? Who is she representing? It certainly isn't her community.
>>>A question was raised about the transparency of the process, that many issues (such as which schools are involved) were predetermined, meaning that the outcome was essentially predetermined. Kathy responded that the board needed to start somewhere, and relied on staff to do the initial groundwork.<<<
Once again, staff does everything and she just approves it. Good grief. This woman is clueless. She has no idea who she's supposed to be working for, or working at all! This woman needs to be FIRED!!!!
Vote for John Litzenberger. He will know who he works for, YOU!!!! Not staff!!
http://www.dartmoorwoods.com/smithmeeting.htm
Among other things,
>>>>Madison High School has neighborhoods closer to South Lakes, a longer contiguous border, and is more overcrowded than Oakton, why is Madison not included in the study? This question was asked several times and ways. Kathy essentially stated that this was a staff decision made in July of this year and was a settled issue. Kathy did commit to getting an answer back to our community on this question.<<<
HUH??? Staff's decision? Staff decides?? Does the school board work for staff? Does staff dictate what will be done? Then why do we bother to elect a school board? Why are we electing people to work for staff? Silly me, I was under the impression that staff worked for school board.
>>>Oakton is not overcrowded, why is Oakton involved? A: (by Kathy) Proximity to South Lakes, and the fact that Oakton boundaries sit between Chantilly, Westfield and South Lakes. Staff recommendations to the Board was that Oakton should be included.<<<
Again, STAFF decides. Then I guess we don't need Kathy on the school board.
>>>What about the idea of a magnet school at South Lakes? Why not utilize an incentive such as that as opposed to the boundary process? Kathy stated that the magnet school option was not considered, not clear if it could be funded, was not timely and may not address the problem. Kathy mentioned that a Culinary Arts school was part of South Lakes.<<<<
A magnet school option wasn't considered? Why not? What exactly does the school board DO? It would appear that Kathy has NO impact on anything that is presented by staff.
>>>What about the safety issues at South Lakes? Kathy suggested that we contact the principal or security officer at South Lakes for that information.<<<
What a completely pitiful answer. This woman knows nothing and is responsible for nothing. Can someone tell me why she's on the school board? Who is she representing? It certainly isn't her community.
>>>A question was raised about the transparency of the process, that many issues (such as which schools are involved) were predetermined, meaning that the outcome was essentially predetermined. Kathy responded that the board needed to start somewhere, and relied on staff to do the initial groundwork.<<<
Once again, staff does everything and she just approves it. Good grief. This woman is clueless. She has no idea who she's supposed to be working for, or working at all! This woman needs to be FIRED!!!!
Vote for John Litzenberger. He will know who he works for, YOU!!!! Not staff!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:58AM
>>>When have you ever heard of this happening at South Lakes? It doesn't! It probably happens more at the "stellar" schools than at South Lakes! Your comparisons don't apply. Please refrain from making them.<<<
Before you tell others to stop stating the truth, you might want to find out what the truth is. Please, do your own comparison of behaviors between South Lakes, Oakton, and Madison:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1310
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1333
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1368
To check any school profile and report card:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
Remember when comparing incidents of weapons, assaults on staff, assaults on students, alcohol and drugs violations, etc, that South Lakes has 1,000 fewer students than Oakton and 600 fewer than Madison, yet their incidents of serious behavioral problems are much higher. Do the math, South Lakes is NOT as safe. It just isn't.
Why do South Lakes fans insist on lying about what goes on at SL, when the facts are so easily obtained? AND then they have the nerve to tell others to shut up about the problems?! It only serves to make South Lakes appear to be filled with people who can't find the facts, or want to ignore them, while insisting that everyone else do the same.
So much for all their "critical thinking skills" they like to brag about. Apparently those thinking skills do include thinking about the facts.
Before you tell others to stop stating the truth, you might want to find out what the truth is. Please, do your own comparison of behaviors between South Lakes, Oakton, and Madison:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1310
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1333
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1368
To check any school profile and report card:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
Remember when comparing incidents of weapons, assaults on staff, assaults on students, alcohol and drugs violations, etc, that South Lakes has 1,000 fewer students than Oakton and 600 fewer than Madison, yet their incidents of serious behavioral problems are much higher. Do the math, South Lakes is NOT as safe. It just isn't.
Why do South Lakes fans insist on lying about what goes on at SL, when the facts are so easily obtained? AND then they have the nerve to tell others to shut up about the problems?! It only serves to make South Lakes appear to be filled with people who can't find the facts, or want to ignore them, while insisting that everyone else do the same.
So much for all their "critical thinking skills" they like to brag about. Apparently those thinking skills do include thinking about the facts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 05, 2007 01:19AM
Not AS safe does not equal not safe at all. Just because the numbers are higher does not mean all groups of kids are effected equally by the numbers. Ask ANYONE who goes to the school and they will tell you that they fell perfectly safe in the environment. Seriously Neen, you need to sit down and eat a cookie or something. You're a little too worked up for 1am on a Sunday night.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 05, 2007 01:33AM
"Numbers exist to “prove” almost any thesis. However, a critical reader understands that numbers are not facts"
Any critical readers out there?
Its called understanding the circumstances and facts BEHIND the numbers before making your false claims of knowlege.
Any critical readers out there?
Its called understanding the circumstances and facts BEHIND the numbers before making your false claims of knowlege.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 01:55AM
I'm not too worked up, I'm always like this. hahaha........I object to people telling me to sit down and shut up because they disagree with me. Just a quirk of mine.
I'm not trying to 'prove' anything, just posting sources to the facts about the various schools and safety issues. Parents can make up their own minds.
Parents have a right to know the facts, and then make their own judgments. Anecdotal stories about a certain student feeling safe does not mean that their child will feel safe there, or even comfortable.
I would invite parents to read the factual comparisons then walk the halls of the various schools when school is in session and see how they feel. Do the students look like their son/daughter? Do they speak to each other like their children? They are the best judges of where their child would feel safe and happy.
I was used to TJ where there were students from so many different countries and different backgrounds. Some were preppy, some were total geeks, some knew how to dress, others had no clue. Some were popular, most were not, but all had friends like themselves. There was such variety. There was an honor code and no one worried about leaving their backpack anywhere. I never heard any profanity and saw everyone treat each other with respect. I knew my children would feel comfortable there, and safe.
When I went to Madison, I was shocked at the lack of differences among the students. They all looked alike! But, again, I heard no profanity, and while they didn't have the TJ honor code, theft was not a problem. Spending time there with the students, and walking in the halls, I knew that my children would fit in there too.
Visiting the school when everyone is on their best behavior doesn't help anyone to see a real picture of the school on a day-to-day basis. Nor do anecdotal stories of how happy everyone is at the school.
It's such a shame that we all have choice in everything, except the most important thing, where our children are educated, and how they are educated.
I'm not trying to 'prove' anything, just posting sources to the facts about the various schools and safety issues. Parents can make up their own minds.
Parents have a right to know the facts, and then make their own judgments. Anecdotal stories about a certain student feeling safe does not mean that their child will feel safe there, or even comfortable.
I would invite parents to read the factual comparisons then walk the halls of the various schools when school is in session and see how they feel. Do the students look like their son/daughter? Do they speak to each other like their children? They are the best judges of where their child would feel safe and happy.
I was used to TJ where there were students from so many different countries and different backgrounds. Some were preppy, some were total geeks, some knew how to dress, others had no clue. Some were popular, most were not, but all had friends like themselves. There was such variety. There was an honor code and no one worried about leaving their backpack anywhere. I never heard any profanity and saw everyone treat each other with respect. I knew my children would feel comfortable there, and safe.
When I went to Madison, I was shocked at the lack of differences among the students. They all looked alike! But, again, I heard no profanity, and while they didn't have the TJ honor code, theft was not a problem. Spending time there with the students, and walking in the halls, I knew that my children would fit in there too.
Visiting the school when everyone is on their best behavior doesn't help anyone to see a real picture of the school on a day-to-day basis. Nor do anecdotal stories of how happy everyone is at the school.
It's such a shame that we all have choice in everything, except the most important thing, where our children are educated, and how they are educated.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 05, 2007 03:14AM
"Do the students look like their son/daughter?"
Shame.
Shame.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
veritysproxy
()
Date: November 05, 2007 07:35AM
SLVerity is off on a business trip for a few days. I will take it from here:
You, Neen, are a serious,serious racist. Shame on you.
Neen wrote: I would invite parents to read the factual comparisons then walk the halls of the various schools when school is in session and see how they feel. Do the students look like their son/daughter? Do they speak to each other like their children? They are the best judges of where their child would feel safe and happy.
You, Neen, are a serious,serious racist. Shame on you.
Neen wrote: I would invite parents to read the factual comparisons then walk the halls of the various schools when school is in session and see how they feel. Do the students look like their son/daughter? Do they speak to each other like their children? They are the best judges of where their child would feel safe and happy.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 05, 2007 07:39AM
Here is a question for those familiar with South Lakes? What if my kids are just average, everyday kids? What if they are not IB candidates? At Oakton, they will be able to take some honors level courses that are between the regular course and an AP class. What do they have available to them NOW at South Lakes if they are not the stellar IB type students? A friend of mine taught at South Lakes for 10 years and said she would never send her kids there because it was "all or nothing" in terms of what they would get out of the school academically. She agreed that it was a great place for the IB kids, but the other kids really suffered there from lack of any classes offered that would bridge that gap. Personally, I don't have kids who would be TJ students or get an IB diploma. I have kids who will do well picking and choosing from some AP courses that don't involve a ton of writing. Where will they fit in at South Lakes? And again, my question relates to what is available NOW. If they get more kids they will add more classes, but not immediately. What will happen to the kids that get sent there next year in terms of the courses they have from which to choose?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SL Parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 08:19AM
What you said about all or nothing is true. Unfortunately those in the middle get mixed in with poor performers who take up the teachers class time with remedial needs and disruptions. Maybe that will change someday.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:01AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will happen to the kids that
> get sent there next year in terms of the courses
> they have from which to choose?
My friends with kids in that category confirm your friend's analysis at almost evey high school in FFX which is why I call the FCPS system mediocre.
Specifically at SL, the guidance counselors overload the kids' academic work load. If a kid isn't shooting for Harvard, they don't need four years of science, four years of math, four years of social studies and four years of foreign language. Less than 100 out of 1,400 colleges in the US require that work load in high school. Taking that work load only wears them out and drags down their GPA.[I swear that's their purpose. Just to keep your kid out of the limited slots at Va schools.]
Freshman are going to take biology, algebra I, english, world history, and PE.
I'd stay away from Spanish. A few years ago, one first year spanish class year had 4 different teachers in one year. Naturally, they were lost in Spanish 2. Another class had a teacher who could not speak English. You might look at Latin since its especially good at making up for the deficiencies in grammar from FFX's experiment with "whole language" at the elementary level.
7th period should be for fun but stay away from Film. If you want a nightmare story I'll be happy to relate it. Band and dance are good times.
I'd look at a pre-IB class in your kid's strongest subject.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 09:11AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will happen to the kids that
> get sent there next year in terms of the courses
> they have from which to choose?
My friends with kids in that category confirm your friend's analysis at almost evey high school in FFX which is why I call the FCPS system mediocre.
Specifically at SL, the guidance counselors overload the kids' academic work load. If a kid isn't shooting for Harvard, they don't need four years of science, four years of math, four years of social studies and four years of foreign language. Less than 100 out of 1,400 colleges in the US require that work load in high school. Taking that work load only wears them out and drags down their GPA.[I swear that's their purpose. Just to keep your kid out of the limited slots at Va schools.]
Freshman are going to take biology, algebra I, english, world history, and PE.
I'd stay away from Spanish. A few years ago, one first year spanish class year had 4 different teachers in one year. Naturally, they were lost in Spanish 2. Another class had a teacher who could not speak English. You might look at Latin since its especially good at making up for the deficiencies in grammar from FFX's experiment with "whole language" at the elementary level.
7th period should be for fun but stay away from Film. If you want a nightmare story I'll be happy to relate it. Band and dance are good times.
I'd look at a pre-IB class in your kid's strongest subject.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 09:11AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:13AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket said
> >>>Don't be surprised when this doesn't
> happen.<<<
>
> I won't be surprised if Stu changes his mind,
> assuming he's in a position where he can do that,
> with any influence.
>
> It's just my guess that McNair and Floris will go
> to South Lakes. What is your best guess?
My first guess is Stu will be gone. My second guess is FLoris will put up a huge fight. My third guess is there are schools on the radar that are alot closer to SL than Floris.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket said
> >>>Don't be surprised when this doesn't
> happen.<<<
>
> I won't be surprised if Stu changes his mind,
> assuming he's in a position where he can do that,
> with any influence.
>
> It's just my guess that McNair and Floris will go
> to South Lakes. What is your best guess?
My first guess is Stu will be gone. My second guess is FLoris will put up a huge fight. My third guess is there are schools on the radar that are alot closer to SL than Floris.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:21AM
Relax, McNair and Floris are too big for South Lakes and McNair's got to go first.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:31AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Relax, McNair and Floris are too big for South
> Lakes and McNair's got to go first.
Does that conclusion include leaving the part of McNair currently going to HHS staying at HHS?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Relax, McNair and Floris are too big for South
> Lakes and McNair's got to go first.
Does that conclusion include leaving the part of McNair currently going to HHS staying at HHS?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:42AM
Yes
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer - 11/12/07 school board meet
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:49AM
and now there is a school board work session on 11/12/07 on facilities including updated enrollment projections on the West County Boundary study. The meeting managers are the architects of that study - Gibson and Strauss. South Lakes capacity is now 2100.
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet
Based on the statement on the FCPS boundary website regarding square footage Langley should decrease capacity even with the addition. Is it correct that South Lakes added square footage for the art wing but prior to now had shown a reduction in capacity?
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet
Based on the statement on the FCPS boundary website regarding square footage Langley should decrease capacity even with the addition. Is it correct that South Lakes added square footage for the art wing but prior to now had shown a reduction in capacity?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:00AM
see below - how is the kitchen program facility funded? Is it the part on tomorrpw's bond referendum? What is that new money for at South Lakes? Why did they break ground on Lnagley if they need more money? Is this what most people want done with this school building sized to be an avergae FCPS school located in the middle of AP schools? Who decides this other than Gibson?
Lakes HS Culinary Arts Facility
July 13, 2006, regular meeting
Staff response: Dean Tistadt
#07-01 Please provide any historical precedent for funding capital projects, such as
the South Lakes HS Culinary Arts facility, out of the operating budget.
(Stu Gibson)
T
here have been at least two prior occasions when operating funds were used to construct
facilities to meet academy program requirements.
• The culinary arts facility at the Marshall Academy was funded through operating
funds and Perkins Grant funding over a two year period for a total of $500,000.
The use of operating funds was questioned at that time but the project was allowed
to go forward after the School Board was informed that there was no other
apparent method of funding that would allow the construction to take place in a
timely fashion to serve students.
• During the latter phases of the construction of South County Secondary School , it
was decided that there was sufficient student interest to create an automotive
technology program at that school. The capital project was over budget and could
not afford the $500,000 facility costs for this program. Ultimately, the cost was
split between the project and the academy program’s operating budget.
The same situation now exists at South Lakes High School. The school system’s academy
programs would benefit from the location of a culinary arts program at this school but this
requirement was not part of the scope of work of the renovation. The renovation contract
award exceeded the project’s budget by about $3 million so it is not reasonable to expect
the capital project to fund the culinary arts facility.
Lakes HS Culinary Arts Facility
July 13, 2006, regular meeting
Staff response: Dean Tistadt
#07-01 Please provide any historical precedent for funding capital projects, such as
the South Lakes HS Culinary Arts facility, out of the operating budget.
(Stu Gibson)
T
here have been at least two prior occasions when operating funds were used to construct
facilities to meet academy program requirements.
• The culinary arts facility at the Marshall Academy was funded through operating
funds and Perkins Grant funding over a two year period for a total of $500,000.
The use of operating funds was questioned at that time but the project was allowed
to go forward after the School Board was informed that there was no other
apparent method of funding that would allow the construction to take place in a
timely fashion to serve students.
• During the latter phases of the construction of South County Secondary School , it
was decided that there was sufficient student interest to create an automotive
technology program at that school. The capital project was over budget and could
not afford the $500,000 facility costs for this program. Ultimately, the cost was
split between the project and the academy program’s operating budget.
The same situation now exists at South Lakes High School. The school system’s academy
programs would benefit from the location of a culinary arts program at this school but this
requirement was not part of the scope of work of the renovation. The renovation contract
award exceeded the project’s budget by about $3 million so it is not reasonable to expect
the capital project to fund the culinary arts facility.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:02AM
I have a question. If Stu goes after certain higher income neighborhoods to be included in the "new boundary" to South Lakes, obviously there will be an extremily large rate of "no shows" due to moving, transfer or private school option. If he is determined to get this socioeconomic group he will have to include a substantially larger area to offset this attrition.How is this taken into consideration?
Mr. Dale better wake up! This school board is alianating people. When future school bonds start getting voted down, Mr. Dale will be credited with overseeing the first step in the decline of the exceptional Fairfax Public School system.
Mr. Dale better wake up! This school board is alianating people. When future school bonds start getting voted down, Mr. Dale will be credited with overseeing the first step in the decline of the exceptional Fairfax Public School system.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:09AM
taxpayer - 11/12/07 school board meet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on the statement on the FCPS boundary
> website regarding square footage Langley should
> decrease capacity even with the addition. Is it
> correct that South Lakes added square footage for
> the art wing but prior to now had shown a
> reduction in capacity?
The renovation was always understood to reduce capacity by50 kids
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on the statement on the FCPS boundary
> website regarding square footage Langley should
> decrease capacity even with the addition. Is it
> correct that South Lakes added square footage for
> the art wing but prior to now had shown a
> reduction in capacity?
The renovation was always understood to reduce capacity by50 kids
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:36AM
taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> see below - how is the kitchen program facility
> funded?
Has anyone with FCPS explained why the County needs a third culinary arts program to train kids in minimum wage dead end jobs?
-------------------------------------------------------
> see below - how is the kitchen program facility
> funded?
Has anyone with FCPS explained why the County needs a third culinary arts program to train kids in minimum wage dead end jobs?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:01PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>When have you ever heard of this happening at
> South Lakes? It doesn't! It probably happens more
> at the "stellar" schools than at South Lakes! Your
> comparisons don't apply. Please refrain from
> making them.<<<
>
> Before you tell others to stop stating the truth,
> you might want to find out what the truth is.
> Please, do your own comparison of behaviors
> between South Lakes, Oakton, and Madison:
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do
> ?division=29&schoolName=1310
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do
> ?division=29&schoolName=1333
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do
> ?division=29&schoolName=1368
>
> To check any school profile and report card:
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
>
> Remember when comparing incidents of weapons,
> assaults on staff, assaults on students, alcohol
> and drugs violations, etc, that South Lakes has
> 1,000 fewer students than Oakton and 600 fewer
> than Madison, yet their incidents of serious
> behavioral problems are much higher. Do the math,
> South Lakes is NOT as safe. It just isn't.
>
> Why do South Lakes fans insist on lying about what
> goes on at SL, when the facts are so easily
> obtained? AND then they have the nerve to tell
> others to shut up about the problems?! It only
> serves to make South Lakes appear to be filled
> with people who can't find the facts, or want to
> ignore them, while insisting that everyone else do
> the same.
>
> So much for all their "critical thinking skills"
> they like to brag about. Apparently those
> thinking skills do include thinking about the
> facts.
Neen,
I know for a fact that a serious incident occurred at Oakton last year, with two kids beating up a third. This was never reported to the police, and did not show up in the statistics, because the principal decided it was unnecessary.
Bruce Butler, on the other hand, reports all incidents. So, the numbers are not everything. They just aren't.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>When have you ever heard of this happening at
> South Lakes? It doesn't! It probably happens more
> at the "stellar" schools than at South Lakes! Your
> comparisons don't apply. Please refrain from
> making them.<<<
>
> Before you tell others to stop stating the truth,
> you might want to find out what the truth is.
> Please, do your own comparison of behaviors
> between South Lakes, Oakton, and Madison:
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do
> ?division=29&schoolName=1310
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do
> ?division=29&schoolName=1333
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do
> ?division=29&schoolName=1368
>
> To check any school profile and report card:
> https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/
>
> Remember when comparing incidents of weapons,
> assaults on staff, assaults on students, alcohol
> and drugs violations, etc, that South Lakes has
> 1,000 fewer students than Oakton and 600 fewer
> than Madison, yet their incidents of serious
> behavioral problems are much higher. Do the math,
> South Lakes is NOT as safe. It just isn't.
>
> Why do South Lakes fans insist on lying about what
> goes on at SL, when the facts are so easily
> obtained? AND then they have the nerve to tell
> others to shut up about the problems?! It only
> serves to make South Lakes appear to be filled
> with people who can't find the facts, or want to
> ignore them, while insisting that everyone else do
> the same.
>
> So much for all their "critical thinking skills"
> they like to brag about. Apparently those
> thinking skills do include thinking about the
> facts.
Neen,
I know for a fact that a serious incident occurred at Oakton last year, with two kids beating up a third. This was never reported to the police, and did not show up in the statistics, because the principal decided it was unnecessary.
Bruce Butler, on the other hand, reports all incidents. So, the numbers are not everything. They just aren't.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:13PM
SLPP - you can't be serious with this crap. What a shill.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:20PM
Word,
Yes, I just make things up all the time. I've got nothing better to do.
Yes, I just make things up all the time. I've got nothing better to do.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SRE
()
Date: November 05, 2007 12:25PM
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLParent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 01:00PM
I am a SL parent of two students. I am disturbed by some of the comments on this blog about SL. It's not my position to lecture other parents. I understand the concerns and won't pretend to tell you I know what is best for your family.
My children are not afraid to go to school everyday. They are very happy at SLHS and when we discussed moving a couple of years ago absolutely refused because they love SL. They are both active in many sports, don't attend IB courses and are your average kids in everyway.
So if you are reading this post understand that there are proud SLHS parents in the community that are not interested in "converting" your kids. We just want you to know that there is no hidden agenda, we just love the school, teachers, principals and students.
My children are not afraid to go to school everyday. They are very happy at SLHS and when we discussed moving a couple of years ago absolutely refused because they love SL. They are both active in many sports, don't attend IB courses and are your average kids in everyway.
So if you are reading this post understand that there are proud SLHS parents in the community that are not interested in "converting" your kids. We just want you to know that there is no hidden agenda, we just love the school, teachers, principals and students.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chsparent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 01:12PM
SLParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My children are not afraid to go to school
> everyday. They are very happy at SLHS and when we
> discussed moving a couple of years ago absolutely
> refused because they love SL.
>
> So if you are reading this post understand that
> there are proud SLHS parents in the community that
> are not interested in "converting" your kids. We
> just want you to know that there is no hidden
> agenda, we just love the school, teachers,
> principals and students.
Just like my children love THEIR school, teachers, principals and friends and don't want to move either.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My children are not afraid to go to school
> everyday. They are very happy at SLHS and when we
> discussed moving a couple of years ago absolutely
> refused because they love SL.
>
> So if you are reading this post understand that
> there are proud SLHS parents in the community that
> are not interested in "converting" your kids. We
> just want you to know that there is no hidden
> agenda, we just love the school, teachers,
> principals and students.
Just like my children love THEIR school, teachers, principals and friends and don't want to move either.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 01:25PM
chsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > My children are not afraid to go to school
> > everyday. They are very happy at SLHS and when
> we
> > discussed moving a couple of years ago
> absolutely
> > refused because they love SL.
> >
> > So if you are reading this post understand that
> > there are proud SLHS parents in the community
> that
> > are not interested in "converting" your kids.
> We
> > just want you to know that there is no hidden
> > agenda, we just love the school, teachers,
> > principals and students.
>
>
> Just like my children love THEIR school, teachers,
> principals and friends and don't want to move
> either.
We're not suggesting otherwise. We are just trying to keep the record straight by refuting those that continually bash South Lakes for their own purposes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > My children are not afraid to go to school
> > everyday. They are very happy at SLHS and when
> we
> > discussed moving a couple of years ago
> absolutely
> > refused because they love SL.
> >
> > So if you are reading this post understand that
> > there are proud SLHS parents in the community
> that
> > are not interested in "converting" your kids.
> We
> > just want you to know that there is no hidden
> > agenda, we just love the school, teachers,
> > principals and students.
>
>
> Just like my children love THEIR school, teachers,
> principals and friends and don't want to move
> either.
We're not suggesting otherwise. We are just trying to keep the record straight by refuting those that continually bash South Lakes for their own purposes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 01:57PM
I think the problem with the statistics are that all SL parents I talk to do not understand why the statistics are higher. All universally have stated that the stats do not reflect their own personal experiences with SL. We are not liars, we just don't see that kind of problem at SL. So maybe we are trying to figure out why this is and the best explanation is that the reporting of incidences vary according to the principals of the schools. We do know that Bruce Butler is reports all incidents. Specific instances of incidents not getting reported at other schools (e.g. Oakton) bolster this view.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 01:58PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 01:58PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Somewhere in Oak Hill
()
Date: November 05, 2007 02:04PM
It amazes me the rancor and animosity expressed on this blog regarding the school boundaries. I have two children and needless to say, I don't want them to move to a different school because of sports, communities involves, friendships that back several years. Some people LOVE South Lakes, and some people HATE it, regardless of their experiences. My beef is that SL doesn't offer AP courses and that's my preference. The School is just a building, experiences good or bad come from the students themselves. Some have a wonderful time, and others struggle for acceptance...it is in the eye of the beholder.
If more parents are involved in their kids' education and are on top of things, they will thrive no matter how good or bad the school is. Yes, SL have a terrible reputation regardless of how much people defend it, but so does Chantilly. Each school have good kids and bad apples who engaged in gang activity....the solution is prevention, more after school programs. Lots of kids have nothing to do until mom or dad come home and is in the 3-5 timeframe that get in trouble. Like someone said earlier, Oakton's principal decided not to publicize the fight, hence, it doesn't show in the statistics. You cannot trivialize these things, but at the same time, he is trying to portrait a rosy picture of Oakton...too bad.
Good luck to you all....and SL parents: keep up the good work for your kids' sake, maybe other parents will follow suit.
If more parents are involved in their kids' education and are on top of things, they will thrive no matter how good or bad the school is. Yes, SL have a terrible reputation regardless of how much people defend it, but so does Chantilly. Each school have good kids and bad apples who engaged in gang activity....the solution is prevention, more after school programs. Lots of kids have nothing to do until mom or dad come home and is in the 3-5 timeframe that get in trouble. Like someone said earlier, Oakton's principal decided not to publicize the fight, hence, it doesn't show in the statistics. You cannot trivialize these things, but at the same time, he is trying to portrait a rosy picture of Oakton...too bad.
Good luck to you all....and SL parents: keep up the good work for your kids' sake, maybe other parents will follow suit.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 05, 2007 02:20PM
Somewhere in Oak Hill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It amazes me the rancor and animosity expressed on
> this blog regarding the school boundaries. I have
> two children and needless to say, I don't want
> them to move to a different school because of
> sports, communities involves, friendships that
> back several years. Some people LOVE South Lakes,
> and some people HATE it, regardless of their
> experiences. My beef is that SL doesn't offer AP
> courses and that's my preference. The School is
> just a building, experiences good or bad come from
> the students themselves. Some have a wonderful
> time, and others struggle for acceptance...it is
> in the eye of the beholder.
>
> If more parents are involved in their kids'
> education and are on top of things, they will
> thrive no matter how good or bad the school is.
> Yes, SL have a terrible reputation regardless of
> how much people defend it, but so does Chantilly.
> Each school have good kids and bad apples who
> engaged in gang activity....the solution is
> prevention, more after school programs. Lots of
> kids have nothing to do until mom or dad come home
> and is in the 3-5 timeframe that get in trouble.
> Like someone said earlier, Oakton's principal
> decided not to publicize the fight, hence, it
> doesn't show in the statistics. You cannot
> trivialize these things, but at the same time, he
> is trying to portrait a rosy picture of
> Oakton...too bad.
>
> Good luck to you all....and SL parents: keep up
> the good work for your kids' sake, maybe other
> parents will follow suit.
Chantilly has a bad reputation?
since when?
That high school was named one of the best in the country a few years back... so what's changed?
My children attend chantilly and I couldn't be happier with the staff, the principal and their education....
I would really like you to be more specific about their reputation
-------------------------------------------------------
> It amazes me the rancor and animosity expressed on
> this blog regarding the school boundaries. I have
> two children and needless to say, I don't want
> them to move to a different school because of
> sports, communities involves, friendships that
> back several years. Some people LOVE South Lakes,
> and some people HATE it, regardless of their
> experiences. My beef is that SL doesn't offer AP
> courses and that's my preference. The School is
> just a building, experiences good or bad come from
> the students themselves. Some have a wonderful
> time, and others struggle for acceptance...it is
> in the eye of the beholder.
>
> If more parents are involved in their kids'
> education and are on top of things, they will
> thrive no matter how good or bad the school is.
> Yes, SL have a terrible reputation regardless of
> how much people defend it, but so does Chantilly.
> Each school have good kids and bad apples who
> engaged in gang activity....the solution is
> prevention, more after school programs. Lots of
> kids have nothing to do until mom or dad come home
> and is in the 3-5 timeframe that get in trouble.
> Like someone said earlier, Oakton's principal
> decided not to publicize the fight, hence, it
> doesn't show in the statistics. You cannot
> trivialize these things, but at the same time, he
> is trying to portrait a rosy picture of
> Oakton...too bad.
>
> Good luck to you all....and SL parents: keep up
> the good work for your kids' sake, maybe other
> parents will follow suit.
Chantilly has a bad reputation?
since when?
That high school was named one of the best in the country a few years back... so what's changed?
My children attend chantilly and I couldn't be happier with the staff, the principal and their education....
I would really like you to be more specific about their reputation
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
somewhere in Oak Hill
()
Date: November 05, 2007 02:37PM
Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or engage in a conversation with your neighbors whose kids go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the "information" you can get. hint: gang activity. We are not talking about the teachers or the principal here. It is the extracurricular activities some of the student engaged, some of it at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I mentioned earlier, each school has good students and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the exception.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 02:46PM
Somewhere in Oak Hill,
Please come to the boundary meetings and express your preference for AP. There will certainly be many like you, and if the powers that be get enough of a push from the communities involved, include SL, it will be harder for them to ignore. It would be great if SL could have both IB and AP--why not?
Please come to the boundary meetings and express your preference for AP. There will certainly be many like you, and if the powers that be get enough of a push from the communities involved, include SL, it will be harder for them to ignore. It would be great if SL could have both IB and AP--why not?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
somewhere else
()
Date: November 05, 2007 02:57PM
somewhere in Oak Hill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or engage
> in a conversation with your neighbors whose kids
> go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
> We are not talking about the teachers or the
> principal here. It is the extracurricular
> activities some of the student engaged, some of it
> at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> mentioned earlier, each school has good students
> and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> exception.
I'd like to know where you got your information. I spoke with the head of security at CHS and he told me that there is no gang activity at either Chantilly or Oakton.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or engage
> in a conversation with your neighbors whose kids
> go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
> We are not talking about the teachers or the
> principal here. It is the extracurricular
> activities some of the student engaged, some of it
> at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> mentioned earlier, each school has good students
> and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> exception.
I'd like to know where you got your information. I spoke with the head of security at CHS and he told me that there is no gang activity at either Chantilly or Oakton.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 03:06PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somewhere in Oak Hill,
> Please come to the boundary meetings and express
> your preference for AP. There will certainly be
> many like you, and if the powers that be get
> enough of a push from the communities involved,
> include SL, it will be harder for them to ignore.
> It would be great if SL could have both IB and
> AP--why not?
Be prepared to be told that SL is too small to have both (compare enrollment with Robinson); to hear more promises about adding AP course (provided they are not redudant of IB, which means very few AP courses); and to hear Goodman say that FCPS will not get rid of IB. FCPS has paid too much money to Zurich for central staff to walk away from IB at SL. That means we may have to get rid of Butler, Goodman and Dale to rid of IB at SL. After we get rid of Stu.
However, since SL was never consulted about IB it reasonable for a plebicite to be held on this issue either before or after the boundary issue is resolved.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somewhere in Oak Hill,
> Please come to the boundary meetings and express
> your preference for AP. There will certainly be
> many like you, and if the powers that be get
> enough of a push from the communities involved,
> include SL, it will be harder for them to ignore.
> It would be great if SL could have both IB and
> AP--why not?
Be prepared to be told that SL is too small to have both (compare enrollment with Robinson); to hear more promises about adding AP course (provided they are not redudant of IB, which means very few AP courses); and to hear Goodman say that FCPS will not get rid of IB. FCPS has paid too much money to Zurich for central staff to walk away from IB at SL. That means we may have to get rid of Butler, Goodman and Dale to rid of IB at SL. After we get rid of Stu.
However, since SL was never consulted about IB it reasonable for a plebicite to be held on this issue either before or after the boundary issue is resolved.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 03:09PM
somewhere else Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to know where you got your information.
> I spoke with the head of security at CHS
You spoke to an FCPS employee who is beholden to the principal for their job.
Talk to the SRO who is the police officer on campus all day. That person reports to the local precinct captain and isn't trying to protect the school's image.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to know where you got your information.
> I spoke with the head of security at CHS
You spoke to an FCPS employee who is beholden to the principal for their job.
Talk to the SRO who is the police officer on campus all day. That person reports to the local precinct captain and isn't trying to protect the school's image.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 05, 2007 03:12PM
I think a side by side comparison chart of the Safety and Security data is in order here.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Curious
()
Date: November 05, 2007 03:43PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to know where you got your information.
> I spoke with the head of security at CHS
You spoke to an FCPS employee who is beholden to the principal for their job.
Talk to the SRO who is the police officer on campus all day. That person reports to the local precinct captain and isn't trying to protect the school's image.
> I think a side by side comparison chart of the Safety and Security data is in order here.
Good idea....I just checked it myself...very interesting. However, the last date posted was for the 2005-2006 school year...so what happened to 06-07?
It was reported some serious incidents in both Oakton and Chantilly, although not as many as SL....so Chantilly mom: check the charts. I agreed with More...you will never get a straight answer with the powers that be unless you check with the patrols. It happened at Westfield too.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to know where you got your information.
> I spoke with the head of security at CHS
You spoke to an FCPS employee who is beholden to the principal for their job.
Talk to the SRO who is the police officer on campus all day. That person reports to the local precinct captain and isn't trying to protect the school's image.
> I think a side by side comparison chart of the Safety and Security data is in order here.
Good idea....I just checked it myself...very interesting. However, the last date posted was for the 2005-2006 school year...so what happened to 06-07?
It was reported some serious incidents in both Oakton and Chantilly, although not as many as SL....so Chantilly mom: check the charts. I agreed with More...you will never get a straight answer with the powers that be unless you check with the patrols. It happened at Westfield too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
FSLP
()
Date: November 05, 2007 04:01PM
I can't wait for my kids to go to South Lakes - I think all this talk of security logs and perception of safety is racist. What is really the problem here? Do you want your kids to go to school where everyone looks like them - how long can you keep them in that bubble. Take a look at the real world.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 04:19PM
FSLP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait for my kids to go to South Lakes - I
> think all this talk of security logs and
> perception of safety is racist. What is really
> the problem here?
I'm trying to keep an open mind and educate myself about the pros and cons of going to Sl, if indeed that's what happens. Many parents in my neighborhood/schools are doing the same. To the extent that we'd rather not have our boundaries changed, it doesn't mean that we are racist. If you've ever been to Carson, then you know that it's a real mix, less than 60% white. Fox Mill is about 62%. It's not just white parents who would rather not be moved. Personally, I'm not that concerned that my kids will get beat up or whatever, but that doesn't mean that parents who have that concern are racist. A small portion may be, but please don't jump to conclusions.
>Do you want your kids to go to
> school where everyone looks like them
I'll save someone the trouble of pointing out that the diversity at Fox Mill/Carson isn't the same blend as the diversity at SL. Yes, we know, but my point is the kids don't all look alike.
>how long can you keep them in that bubble. Take a look at
> the real world.
Aren't we living in the real world now, or is that just the people in Reston (besides the rich ones who go to Langley, which I assume is also not real).
From what I've gathered, race relations at SL sound pretty decent. Don't play the race card.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 04:26PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait for my kids to go to South Lakes - I
> think all this talk of security logs and
> perception of safety is racist. What is really
> the problem here?
I'm trying to keep an open mind and educate myself about the pros and cons of going to Sl, if indeed that's what happens. Many parents in my neighborhood/schools are doing the same. To the extent that we'd rather not have our boundaries changed, it doesn't mean that we are racist. If you've ever been to Carson, then you know that it's a real mix, less than 60% white. Fox Mill is about 62%. It's not just white parents who would rather not be moved. Personally, I'm not that concerned that my kids will get beat up or whatever, but that doesn't mean that parents who have that concern are racist. A small portion may be, but please don't jump to conclusions.
>Do you want your kids to go to
> school where everyone looks like them
I'll save someone the trouble of pointing out that the diversity at Fox Mill/Carson isn't the same blend as the diversity at SL. Yes, we know, but my point is the kids don't all look alike.
>how long can you keep them in that bubble. Take a look at
> the real world.
Aren't we living in the real world now, or is that just the people in Reston (besides the rich ones who go to Langley, which I assume is also not real).
From what I've gathered, race relations at SL sound pretty decent. Don't play the race card.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 04:26PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 04:26PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Somewhere in Oak Hill,
> > Please come to the boundary meetings and
> express
> > your preference for AP. There will certainly
> be
> > many like you, and if the powers that be get
> > enough of a push from the communities involved,
> > include SL, it will be harder for them to
> ignore.
> > It would be great if SL could have both IB and
> > AP--why not?
>
> Be prepared to be told that SL is too small to
> have both (compare enrollment with Robinson); to
> hear more promises about adding AP course
> (provided they are not redudant of IB, which means
> very few AP courses); and to hear Goodman say
> that FCPS will not get rid of IB. FCPS has paid
> too much money to Zurich for central staff to walk
> away from IB at SL. That means we may have to get
> rid of Butler, Goodman and Dale to rid of IB at
> SL. After we get rid of Stu.
>
> However, since SL was never consulted about IB it
> reasonable for a plebicite to be held on this
> issue either before or after the boundary issue is
> resolved.
OK, Tom, we get it. All I'm saying is that if many parents come to the boundary meetings and express preference for AP, I think it will make a difference. Call me naive, but this is what I think. It certainly can't hurt to try.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Somewhere in Oak Hill,
> > Please come to the boundary meetings and
> express
> > your preference for AP. There will certainly
> be
> > many like you, and if the powers that be get
> > enough of a push from the communities involved,
> > include SL, it will be harder for them to
> ignore.
> > It would be great if SL could have both IB and
> > AP--why not?
>
> Be prepared to be told that SL is too small to
> have both (compare enrollment with Robinson); to
> hear more promises about adding AP course
> (provided they are not redudant of IB, which means
> very few AP courses); and to hear Goodman say
> that FCPS will not get rid of IB. FCPS has paid
> too much money to Zurich for central staff to walk
> away from IB at SL. That means we may have to get
> rid of Butler, Goodman and Dale to rid of IB at
> SL. After we get rid of Stu.
>
> However, since SL was never consulted about IB it
> reasonable for a plebicite to be held on this
> issue either before or after the boundary issue is
> resolved.
OK, Tom, we get it. All I'm saying is that if many parents come to the boundary meetings and express preference for AP, I think it will make a difference. Call me naive, but this is what I think. It certainly can't hurt to try.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 04:48PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, Tom, we get it. All I'm saying is that if
> many parents come to the boundary meetings and
> express preference for AP, I think it will make a
> difference. Call me naive, but this is what I
> think. It certainly can't hurt to try.
I sorry SLPP if you think I went overboard. Just saying please will not be nearly enough.
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, Tom, we get it. All I'm saying is that if
> many parents come to the boundary meetings and
> express preference for AP, I think it will make a
> difference. Call me naive, but this is what I
> think. It certainly can't hurt to try.
I sorry SLPP if you think I went overboard. Just saying please will not be nearly enough.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 05, 2007 04:50PM
Let's start with this chart, serious incidents per 1000 students.
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 05:14PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's start with this chart, serious incidents per
> 1000 students.
First, most of these years were under the prior regime, Railly actually wrote in a report that was sent to the School Board that SL was a school riven with criminal activity. That's not what the SRO reported to their captain. And you wondered why we hated her.
There have been three SROs at SL since my kids went there. I have the SRO's names if you want to talk to them. You could also talk to the SRO at Hughes who is familiar with the situation at SL.
Second, remember, before SL, Railly had been the principal at Pimmit Hills which is where the high school miscreants of FCPS re sent. So she was predisposed to see all teenagers, 90% of whom were taller than her, as a physical threat. She prohibited all hats because "kids might hide razors in the bill of the cap."
The woman was a wack job. Yet STu and Goodman kept her there for 7 years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 05:14PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's start with this chart, serious incidents per
> 1000 students.
First, most of these years were under the prior regime, Railly actually wrote in a report that was sent to the School Board that SL was a school riven with criminal activity. That's not what the SRO reported to their captain. And you wondered why we hated her.
There have been three SROs at SL since my kids went there. I have the SRO's names if you want to talk to them. You could also talk to the SRO at Hughes who is familiar with the situation at SL.
Second, remember, before SL, Railly had been the principal at Pimmit Hills which is where the high school miscreants of FCPS re sent. So she was predisposed to see all teenagers, 90% of whom were taller than her, as a physical threat. She prohibited all hats because "kids might hide razors in the bill of the cap."
The woman was a wack job. Yet STu and Goodman kept her there for 7 years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 05:14PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 05:23PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's start with this chart, serious incidents per
> 1000 students.
Can you give a link to the source of the data? I tried http:/fcps.edu and could not easily find the data shown. Assuming the data is accurate (no under reporting involved, which has already been called into question for Oakton) it looks like Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield, Herndon, and South Lakes are trending more dangerous. Only Madison is trending the other way. When will the stats for 2006-07 become available?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's start with this chart, serious incidents per
> 1000 students.
Can you give a link to the source of the data? I tried http:/fcps.edu and could not easily find the data shown. Assuming the data is accurate (no under reporting involved, which has already been called into question for Oakton) it looks like Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield, Herndon, and South Lakes are trending more dangerous. Only Madison is trending the other way. When will the stats for 2006-07 become available?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 05, 2007 05:33PM
go to fcps.edu, click on "Schools and Centers", enter in the school name and click Find, click on "Profile", click on the tab "Safe and Secure"
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
runner69
()
Date: November 05, 2007 06:13PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports
> don't
> > have enough kids going out for their teams. And
> > not knowing the other kids in the school is a
> > why.<<<
> >
> > Totally wrong. Kids who go to TJ don't go for
> the
> > sports. Nor do their parents send them to TJ
> to
> > play sports. Surely you don't think all those
> > geeks on the math team and computer team and
> the
> > physics team really want to play football.
>
> Then who is it with all those bumper stickers with
> "Thomas Jeferson Technical High School we came for
> the sports"? A bunch of imposters?
hey idiot just look at the results from last Thursday's regional cross country boys were FIRST they beat the boys from cougar land and the girls did well also. This is a redistricting issue lets focus on that. get STUpid Gibson out and Kathy Smith out and this thing will go away. give the new board a chance and they will listen to a civilized discussion from the community
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports
> don't
> > have enough kids going out for their teams. And
> > not knowing the other kids in the school is a
> > why.<<<
> >
> > Totally wrong. Kids who go to TJ don't go for
> the
> > sports. Nor do their parents send them to TJ
> to
> > play sports. Surely you don't think all those
> > geeks on the math team and computer team and
> the
> > physics team really want to play football.
>
> Then who is it with all those bumper stickers with
> "Thomas Jeferson Technical High School we came for
> the sports"? A bunch of imposters?
hey idiot just look at the results from last Thursday's regional cross country boys were FIRST they beat the boys from cougar land and the girls did well also. This is a redistricting issue lets focus on that. get STUpid Gibson out and Kathy Smith out and this thing will go away. give the new board a chance and they will listen to a civilized discussion from the community
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 06:26PM
runner69 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey idiot . . . a
> civilized discussion from the community
Look whose talking
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey idiot . . . a
> civilized discussion from the community
Look whose talking
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 05, 2007 06:42PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK, Tom, we get it. All I'm saying is that if
> > many parents come to the boundary meetings and
> > express preference for AP, I think it will make
> a
> > difference. Call me naive, but this is what I
> > think. It certainly can't hurt to try.
>
> I sorry SLPP if you think I went overboard. Just
> saying please will not be nearly enough.
OK, what do you suggest? Should we storm the building? :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 07:03PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK, Tom, we get it. All I'm saying is that if
> > many parents come to the boundary meetings and
> > express preference for AP, I think it will make
> a
> > difference. Call me naive, but this is what I
> > think. It certainly can't hurt to try.
>
> I sorry SLPP if you think I went overboard. Just
> saying please will not be nearly enough.
OK, what do you suggest? Should we storm the building? :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 07:03PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 07:11PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, what do you suggest?
1) Get a specific commitment on a plebicite of all families scheduled to be attending SL in 2012. That means families with kids in 5th grade now and excluding families in the Classes '09,'10, '11 who won't be there in 3 years. Send mailers with info on both programs prepared by advocates of each alternative. One vote for each kid. If less than 50% of the 2100 projected kids vote to keep IB, then it gets phased out over the next three years and replaced by AP. If not enough votes are mailed in, then IB stays.
This would get the community invested into the issue and discussing the future of SL.
2) Get a specific list of AP courses to be instituted over the next 3 years with more AP courses added each year as enrollment grows. Have the courses identified with specificity now.
3) storm the buildiing ;-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 07:12PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, what do you suggest?
1) Get a specific commitment on a plebicite of all families scheduled to be attending SL in 2012. That means families with kids in 5th grade now and excluding families in the Classes '09,'10, '11 who won't be there in 3 years. Send mailers with info on both programs prepared by advocates of each alternative. One vote for each kid. If less than 50% of the 2100 projected kids vote to keep IB, then it gets phased out over the next three years and replaced by AP. If not enough votes are mailed in, then IB stays.
This would get the community invested into the issue and discussing the future of SL.
2) Get a specific list of AP courses to be instituted over the next 3 years with more AP courses added each year as enrollment grows. Have the courses identified with specificity now.
3) storm the buildiing ;-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 07:12PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
runner69
()
Date: November 05, 2007 08:29PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> runner69 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > hey idiot . . . a
> > civilized discussion from the community
>
> Look whose talking
I'm glad my children don't go to school with your children More, you are a first class Northern Virginia jacka%^
-------------------------------------------------------
> runner69 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > hey idiot . . . a
> > civilized discussion from the community
>
> Look whose talking
I'm glad my children don't go to school with your children More, you are a first class Northern Virginia jacka%^
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 08:58PM
runner69 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad my children don't go to school with your
> children More, you are a first class Northern
> Virginia jacka%^
Is this More of your civilized discussion?
Is this how kids at TJ engage in an exchange of ideas?
Oh, and I'm not from No. VA.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 09:03PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad my children don't go to school with your
> children More, you are a first class Northern
> Virginia jacka%^
Is this More of your civilized discussion?
Is this how kids at TJ engage in an exchange of ideas?
Oh, and I'm not from No. VA.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 09:03PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:08PM
Stu LOVES IB and couldn't care less what parents or students want. South Lakes will become an AP school over Stu's dead body.
Does that work for anyone here?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 09:12PM by Neen.
Does that work for anyone here?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 09:12PM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:11PM
Thomas More,
Surely you don't think that Stu Gibson would let the community decide, do you? Democrats don't like that, THEY know what is best for everyone. They like to decide what the little people should get.
Surely you don't think that Stu Gibson would let the community decide, do you? Democrats don't like that, THEY know what is best for everyone. They like to decide what the little people should get.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:14PM
Thomas,
>>>Oh, and I'm not from No. VA.<<<
Neither is anyone else. But I'm not sure how that is relevant. We live here now.
>>>Oh, and I'm not from No. VA.<<<
Neither is anyone else. But I'm not sure how that is relevant. We live here now.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
TOStito
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:33PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Surely you don't think that Stu Gibson would let
> the community decide, do you? Democrats don't
> like that, THEY know what is best for everyone.
> They like to decide what the little people should
> get.
Republicans seem to think they know whats best for everyone too (coughBUSHcough). Its called being a politician. They're all scum.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Surely you don't think that Stu Gibson would let
> the community decide, do you? Democrats don't
> like that, THEY know what is best for everyone.
> They like to decide what the little people should
> get.
Republicans seem to think they know whats best for everyone too (coughBUSHcough). Its called being a politician. They're all scum.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:38PM
Many are hoping SL stays with IB. That's their exit plan.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Informed voter
()
Date: November 05, 2007 09:52PM
ENOUGH is ENOUGH! Christine Arakelian, AKA - Neen, you are fooling no one! You would think a candidate would have something better to do than plug herself all day on a blog. You don't have my vote!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:03PM
Informed voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ENOUGH is ENOUGH! Christine Arakelian, AKA -
> Neen, you are fooling no one! You would think a
> candidate would have something better to do than
> plug herself all day on a blog. You don't have my
> vote!
Neen is not Christine. She is too busy to be on a blog all night. Give it up Stu. You're goin' down tomorrow.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ENOUGH is ENOUGH! Christine Arakelian, AKA -
> Neen, you are fooling no one! You would think a
> candidate would have something better to do than
> plug herself all day on a blog. You don't have my
> vote!
Neen is not Christine. She is too busy to be on a blog all night. Give it up Stu. You're goin' down tomorrow.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Informed voter
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:09PM
Boy are you way off. I am not Stu Gibson but I will vote for him. Goodbye!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:49PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu LOVES IB and couldn't care less what parents
> or students want. South Lakes will become an AP
> school over Stu's dead body.
>
We're arranging for his political funereal tomorrow
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu LOVES IB and couldn't care less what parents
> or students want. South Lakes will become an AP
> school over Stu's dead body.
>
We're arranging for his political funereal tomorrow
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dunk
()
Date: November 05, 2007 10:54PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many are hoping SL stays with IB. That's their
> exit plan.
Word, bugger off. You add nothing to the discussion. Same for Neen and Thomas. All three say the same things over and over and over again. For that reason, I think this site has jumped the shark.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many are hoping SL stays with IB. That's their
> exit plan.
Word, bugger off. You add nothing to the discussion. Same for Neen and Thomas. All three say the same things over and over and over again. For that reason, I think this site has jumped the shark.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 05, 2007 11:02PM
Dunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Many are hoping SL stays with IB. That's their
> > exit plan.
>
> Word, bugger off. You add nothing to the
> discussion. Same for Neen and Thomas. All three
> say the same things over and over and over again.
> For that reason, I think this site has jumped the
> shark.
Wow that was a profound contribution. Thanks eversomuch.
How did we ever get along without you these last 11 days.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 11:06PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Many are hoping SL stays with IB. That's their
> > exit plan.
>
> Word, bugger off. You add nothing to the
> discussion. Same for Neen and Thomas. All three
> say the same things over and over and over again.
> For that reason, I think this site has jumped the
> shark.
Wow that was a profound contribution. Thanks eversomuch.
How did we ever get along without you these last 11 days.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2007 11:06PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 06, 2007 12:53AM
Here is some information for South Lakes parents about how selected colleges view the IB and AP math courses, given the upcoming meeting on IB/AP.
FCPS has not been honest about differences between IB and AP math classes. Contrary to the FCPS math sequence charts, IB Standard Level Math is honors precalculus with extra statistics. And, colleges almost never consider IB Higher Level Math as equivalent to AP Calculus BC. Rather, they usually treat IB HL Math as equivalent to AP Calc AB, which corresponds to the 1st semester of college calculus. AP Calc BC corresponds to the first two semesters.
This pattern is seen at almost all selective colleges around the United States. At U VA, for example, students who score 4/5 or 5/5 on the A{ Calculus BC exam get credit for both Math 131 and Math 132. Students who take IB SL Math never get college credit. Students who take IB HL Math and score 5+/7 get credit for Math 131 but not Math 132. Selective private universities almost universally adopt the same type of approach.
Most students do not use their AP or IB tests to graduate early (although some do, usually to save money). But getting credit for the introductory college classes is useful for other reasons. It lets students place into more advanced classes, which often are smaller. And, it gives them more flexibility in choosing classes and majors.
This year, about 1000 7th grade students in FCPS are taking Algebra 1. Presumably, there are at least 40 at Hughes, if not more. If those students attend an AP high school, many will take AP Calculus BC in 11th grade and post-AP Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra in 12th grade. If they attend an IB high school, however, at most they will complete IB HL Math in 12th grade.
Parents should check the web sites of a few colleges to see how they treat IB versus AP classes, especially in math and science. Every college has its own system, and it's not always easy to find the relevant information. It's worth the effort, though, especially if your child might major in math or science.
FCPS has not been honest about differences between IB and AP math classes. Contrary to the FCPS math sequence charts, IB Standard Level Math is honors precalculus with extra statistics. And, colleges almost never consider IB Higher Level Math as equivalent to AP Calculus BC. Rather, they usually treat IB HL Math as equivalent to AP Calc AB, which corresponds to the 1st semester of college calculus. AP Calc BC corresponds to the first two semesters.
This pattern is seen at almost all selective colleges around the United States. At U VA, for example, students who score 4/5 or 5/5 on the A{ Calculus BC exam get credit for both Math 131 and Math 132. Students who take IB SL Math never get college credit. Students who take IB HL Math and score 5+/7 get credit for Math 131 but not Math 132. Selective private universities almost universally adopt the same type of approach.
Most students do not use their AP or IB tests to graduate early (although some do, usually to save money). But getting credit for the introductory college classes is useful for other reasons. It lets students place into more advanced classes, which often are smaller. And, it gives them more flexibility in choosing classes and majors.
This year, about 1000 7th grade students in FCPS are taking Algebra 1. Presumably, there are at least 40 at Hughes, if not more. If those students attend an AP high school, many will take AP Calculus BC in 11th grade and post-AP Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra in 12th grade. If they attend an IB high school, however, at most they will complete IB HL Math in 12th grade.
Parents should check the web sites of a few colleges to see how they treat IB versus AP classes, especially in math and science. Every college has its own system, and it's not always easy to find the relevant information. It's worth the effort, though, especially if your child might major in math or science.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 06, 2007 02:02AM
Informed voter,
No STU, I am not Christine. She's far too busy to be here as much as I am! Perhaps you should be worrying more your campaign, than trying to guess who I am. Several people here, from South Lakes, have told you I am not Christine. Believe them.
Why do you have such a problem with the facts?
Oops, nevermind. I can answer that. So can everyone else.
No STU, I am not Christine. She's far too busy to be here as much as I am! Perhaps you should be worrying more your campaign, than trying to guess who I am. Several people here, from South Lakes, have told you I am not Christine. Believe them.
Why do you have such a problem with the facts?
Oops, nevermind. I can answer that. So can everyone else.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 06, 2007 02:05AM
APorIBMom,
Great post on the facts about IB/AP math courses. You said that it's good to check out the facts if your child is likely to major in math or science. Add to that, any student who might want to major in any engineering and/or computer science. AP-BC calculus and multi var are important for those majors too.
Great post on the facts about IB/AP math courses. You said that it's good to check out the facts if your child is likely to major in math or science. Add to that, any student who might want to major in any engineering and/or computer science. AP-BC calculus and multi var are important for those majors too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 06, 2007 02:09AM
>>>>Boy are you way off. I am not Stu Gibson but I will vote for him. Goodbye!<<<<
Oh good, that's at least ONE vote for you! Don't count on too many more. You don't appear to be very well liked by democrats or republicans. It would appear that you are even less popular in your district than Kathy Hudgins.
Oh good, that's at least ONE vote for you! Don't count on too many more. You don't appear to be very well liked by democrats or republicans. It would appear that you are even less popular in your district than Kathy Hudgins.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 06, 2007 03:28AM
Cricket,
>>>My first guess is Stu will be gone.<<<<
I can't tell you how much I love to hear that, almost as much as our friend Christine.
After that, the others don't matter because Christine will open up the discussion.
>>>My first guess is Stu will be gone.<<<<
I can't tell you how much I love to hear that, almost as much as our friend Christine.
After that, the others don't matter because Christine will open up the discussion.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
A. Parent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 04:48AM
"Most students do not use their AP or IB tests to graduate early (although some do, usually to save money). But getting credit for the introductory college classes is useful for other reasons. It lets students place into more advanced classes, which often are smaller. And, it gives them more flexibility in choosing classes and majors."
Great point! My kids have used their AP credits and have not had to take several freshman classes. One could graduate early this semester; however, he wants to have a double major and to "relax," taking a course called Wines and Vines.
This discussion thread has been extremely interesting and informative. And to think that I once wanted to live in a "planned" community...
Great point! My kids have used their AP credits and have not had to take several freshman classes. One could graduate early this semester; however, he wants to have a double major and to "relax," taking a course called Wines and Vines.
This discussion thread has been extremely interesting and informative. And to think that I once wanted to live in a "planned" community...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 06, 2007 07:58AM
Johns Hopkins University demonstrates another way that colleges distinguish between AP and IB courses: they sometimes require higher scores on AP than on IB HL classes for the same amount of credit.
For example, a 4 or 5 in AP Chem or AP Biology is worth 8 credits. A 6 or 7 in IB HL Chem or IB HL Biology is worth 8 credits. At least in FCPS, a higher percentage of kids score 4+ on AP exams than 6+ on IB HL exams. Remember, FCPS normally reports only the percentage of kids with "passing" scores of 3+ on the AP tests and 4+ on the IB tests (and includes IB SL tests in those press releases). That data is not useful. Parents need to know how many scored 6 or 7 on each HL test.
JHU also recognizes that IB has a math class that is comparable to AP Calc BC, IB Further Math SL, which is not offered in FCPS. At JHU, scoring a 3 on AP Calc BC gets you 4 credits and scoring 4 or 5 gets you 8 credits. IB SL Math gets you nothing. A 6+/7 in HL Math is worth 4 credits. Taking HL Math with Further Math and getting a 5 is worth 4 credits. BUT, taking HL Math with Further Math and scoring 6 or 7 is worth 8 credits. Just like taking AP Calculus BC.
For example, a 4 or 5 in AP Chem or AP Biology is worth 8 credits. A 6 or 7 in IB HL Chem or IB HL Biology is worth 8 credits. At least in FCPS, a higher percentage of kids score 4+ on AP exams than 6+ on IB HL exams. Remember, FCPS normally reports only the percentage of kids with "passing" scores of 3+ on the AP tests and 4+ on the IB tests (and includes IB SL tests in those press releases). That data is not useful. Parents need to know how many scored 6 or 7 on each HL test.
JHU also recognizes that IB has a math class that is comparable to AP Calc BC, IB Further Math SL, which is not offered in FCPS. At JHU, scoring a 3 on AP Calc BC gets you 4 credits and scoring 4 or 5 gets you 8 credits. IB SL Math gets you nothing. A 6+/7 in HL Math is worth 4 credits. Taking HL Math with Further Math and getting a 5 is worth 4 credits. BUT, taking HL Math with Further Math and scoring 6 or 7 is worth 8 credits. Just like taking AP Calculus BC.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VOTER
()
Date: November 06, 2007 08:43AM
...
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 06, 2007 08:44AM
James Madison University, which is less selective than U VA, gives 3 credits to chem majors who took IB SL Chem and scored a 6 (which places them out of Chem 131). It gives 6 credits to chem majors who score a 5+ on IB HL Chem, which places them out of Chem 131 and 132. It gives the same 8 credits (for Chem 131 and 132) to chem majors who score 4 or 5 on the AP Chem test. Different rules apply for students who are not chemistry majors; in general they get more credit.
JMU's faculty don't seem to think much of IB HL Math. A 5+ in HL Math is worth 3 credits in Math 135, which seems to be roughly precalc. In contrast, a 4+ in AP Calc AB is worth 4 credits and is equivalent to Math 235, the 1st semester calculus class. A 4+ in AP Calc BC is worth 8 credits, and is equivalent to Math 235 plus Math 236, or the first 2 semesters of college calculus.
My goal in posting specifics from three different colleges is to illustrate how important it is to check college web sites. Within those web sites, do a search for "IB Credit." It's usually easier to find the information on AP credit.
Once you've done your research, think about what matters to your child. For a budding art historian or international relations major, IB may be better than AP. But for a budding math/science major, AP might be better than IB.
JMU's faculty don't seem to think much of IB HL Math. A 5+ in HL Math is worth 3 credits in Math 135, which seems to be roughly precalc. In contrast, a 4+ in AP Calc AB is worth 4 credits and is equivalent to Math 235, the 1st semester calculus class. A 4+ in AP Calc BC is worth 8 credits, and is equivalent to Math 235 plus Math 236, or the first 2 semesters of college calculus.
My goal in posting specifics from three different colleges is to illustrate how important it is to check college web sites. Within those web sites, do a search for "IB Credit." It's usually easier to find the information on AP credit.
Once you've done your research, think about what matters to your child. For a budding art historian or international relations major, IB may be better than AP. But for a budding math/science major, AP might be better than IB.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
early rider:)
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:08AM
A look at the early returns it appears STUpid Gibson is on his way out as is Kathy "Flip FLop" Smith. Voters keep up the good work!! Redistricting is done thank you ARAKELIAM AND LITZ WELL DONE!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:12AM
Results are not available until after the polls close at 7pm.
The primary source for local unofficial election returns for the Nov. 6 General and Special Elections will be the Fairfax County Web site at http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/eb and Fairfax County Government Channel 16. Returns will be updated throughout the night as the county’s 226 precincts report in.
For complete unofficial returns for the Virginia Senate and House of Delegates districts and the constitutional offices (Clerk of Court, Commonwealth’s Attorney and Sheriff) that are shared with neighboring jurisdictions, visit the State Board of Elections Web site at http://www.sbe.virginia.gov.
The primary source for local unofficial election returns for the Nov. 6 General and Special Elections will be the Fairfax County Web site at http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/eb and Fairfax County Government Channel 16. Returns will be updated throughout the night as the county’s 226 precincts report in.
For complete unofficial returns for the Virginia Senate and House of Delegates districts and the constitutional offices (Clerk of Court, Commonwealth’s Attorney and Sheriff) that are shared with neighboring jurisdictions, visit the State Board of Elections Web site at http://www.sbe.virginia.gov.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
another mom
()
Date: November 06, 2007 02:01PM
APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> James Madison University, which is less selective than U VA, gives 3 credits to chem majors who took IB SL Chem and scored a 6 (which places them out of Chem 131). It gives 6 credits to chem majors who score a 5+ on IB HL Chem, which places them out of Chem 131 and 132. It gives the same 8 credits (for Chem 131 and 132) to chem majors who score 4 or 5 on the AP Chem test. Different rules apply for students who are not chemistry majors; in general they get more credit.
> JMU's faculty don't seem to think much of IB HL Math. A 5+ in HL Math is worth 3 credits in Math 135, which seems to be roughly precalc. In contrast, a 4+ in AP Calc AB is worth 4 credits and is equivalent to Math 235, the 1st semester calculus class. A 4+ in AP Calc BC is worth 8 credits, and is equivalent to Math 235 plus Math 236, or the first 2 semesters of college calculus.
>
My goal in posting specifics from three different colleges is to illustrate how important it is to check college web sites. Within those web sites, do a search for "IB Credit." It's usually easier to find the information on AP credit.
Once you've done your research, think about what matters to your child. For a budding art historian or international relations major, IB may be better than AP. But for a budding math/science major, AP might be better than IB.
--------------
Thank you for the research....perhaps you ought to bring these facts at next's week meeting....I do work for a major university that corroborates your findings,so I do have first hand knowledge of what you are describing above. However, if your kids go to SL, I am afraid that they won't have the choice of selecting AP courses since it only offers IB, and no matter how much people root for it, it DOES matter when they are ready for college, and in this area most of kids I happened to know are in the match/science majors.
Thanks again, and hope to see you there!
-------------------------------------------------------
> James Madison University, which is less selective than U VA, gives 3 credits to chem majors who took IB SL Chem and scored a 6 (which places them out of Chem 131). It gives 6 credits to chem majors who score a 5+ on IB HL Chem, which places them out of Chem 131 and 132. It gives the same 8 credits (for Chem 131 and 132) to chem majors who score 4 or 5 on the AP Chem test. Different rules apply for students who are not chemistry majors; in general they get more credit.
> JMU's faculty don't seem to think much of IB HL Math. A 5+ in HL Math is worth 3 credits in Math 135, which seems to be roughly precalc. In contrast, a 4+ in AP Calc AB is worth 4 credits and is equivalent to Math 235, the 1st semester calculus class. A 4+ in AP Calc BC is worth 8 credits, and is equivalent to Math 235 plus Math 236, or the first 2 semesters of college calculus.
>
My goal in posting specifics from three different colleges is to illustrate how important it is to check college web sites. Within those web sites, do a search for "IB Credit." It's usually easier to find the information on AP credit.
Once you've done your research, think about what matters to your child. For a budding art historian or international relations major, IB may be better than AP. But for a budding math/science major, AP might be better than IB.
--------------
Thank you for the research....perhaps you ought to bring these facts at next's week meeting....I do work for a major university that corroborates your findings,so I do have first hand knowledge of what you are describing above. However, if your kids go to SL, I am afraid that they won't have the choice of selecting AP courses since it only offers IB, and no matter how much people root for it, it DOES matter when they are ready for college, and in this area most of kids I happened to know are in the match/science majors.
Thanks again, and hope to see you there!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 02:22PM
Another Mom,
I think the points about AP being better for math and science are valid, from what I can tell. Bruce Butler IS talking about adding AP classes where appropriate--perhaps adding the higher level math AP would be appropriate.
The issue is that South Lakes can't add AP classes UNTIL the redistricting happens and we have the numbers of students needed, and we know what classes will be in demand.
I think the points about AP being better for math and science are valid, from what I can tell. Bruce Butler IS talking about adding AP classes where appropriate--perhaps adding the higher level math AP would be appropriate.
The issue is that South Lakes can't add AP classes UNTIL the redistricting happens and we have the numbers of students needed, and we know what classes will be in demand.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 06, 2007 03:36PM
Neen & Others,
I distributed flyers for the Stoprd.com cause and I obviously hope for the best of results. However, don't think that this will be over that easy. Without predicting election results I don't see a scenario where this boundary change issue simply goes away. We have a fight ahead of us regarless.
If we don't plan on finishing the game then we will lose out to those that continue to organize and strongly voice their opposition. Please be prepared to open your checkbooks and donate your time. We are very happy at Oakton and are willing to fight to stay there.
I distributed flyers for the Stoprd.com cause and I obviously hope for the best of results. However, don't think that this will be over that easy. Without predicting election results I don't see a scenario where this boundary change issue simply goes away. We have a fight ahead of us regarless.
If we don't plan on finishing the game then we will lose out to those that continue to organize and strongly voice their opposition. Please be prepared to open your checkbooks and donate your time. We are very happy at Oakton and are willing to fight to stay there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 06, 2007 03:58PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Mom,
> I think the points about AP being better for math
> and science are valid, from what I can tell.
> Bruce Butler IS talking about adding AP classes
> where appropriate--perhaps adding the higher level
> math AP would be appropriate.
>
> The issue is that South Lakes can't add AP classes
> UNTIL the redistricting happens and we have the
> numbers of students needed, and we know what
> classes will be in demand.
But won't that take a few years? I dont' think it is possible to just decide to implement an AP program and have it in effect with teachers hired a few months later. What happens to the kids who get moved to that school while they are waiting to get that rolling? It is my understanding that, hopefully, they will phase in this change beginning with 9th graders, and not moving anyone who has already begun high school somewhere else. That means it will be 3-4 years before the population at South Lakes is where they want it to be...if everyone goes...which is also doubtful. So I can't imagine the kids who get put there the first few years are going to have any more course offerings than they were already offering there to begin with.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Mom,
> I think the points about AP being better for math
> and science are valid, from what I can tell.
> Bruce Butler IS talking about adding AP classes
> where appropriate--perhaps adding the higher level
> math AP would be appropriate.
>
> The issue is that South Lakes can't add AP classes
> UNTIL the redistricting happens and we have the
> numbers of students needed, and we know what
> classes will be in demand.
But won't that take a few years? I dont' think it is possible to just decide to implement an AP program and have it in effect with teachers hired a few months later. What happens to the kids who get moved to that school while they are waiting to get that rolling? It is my understanding that, hopefully, they will phase in this change beginning with 9th graders, and not moving anyone who has already begun high school somewhere else. That means it will be 3-4 years before the population at South Lakes is where they want it to be...if everyone goes...which is also doubtful. So I can't imagine the kids who get put there the first few years are going to have any more course offerings than they were already offering there to begin with.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 06, 2007 04:02PM
PAL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen & Others,
>
> I distributed flyers for the Stoprd.com cause and
> I obviously hope for the best of results. However,
> don't think that this will be over that easy.
> Without predicting election results I don't see a
> scenario where this boundary change issue simply
> goes away. We have a fight ahead of us regarless.
>
> If we don't plan on finishing the game then we
> will lose out to those that continue to organize
> and strongly voice their opposition. Please be
> prepared to open your checkbooks and donate your
> time. We are very happy at Oakton and are willing
> to fight to stay there.
Absolutely. I do hope that if the best case scenario happens, and we get people elected who are willing to take another look at this whole process, that it won't mean that we all relax. I cannot imagine that they will abandon the process and the plan to move kids to South Lakes entirely. But it would be nice if they really take a closer look at all the data AND LISTEN TO THE CITIZENS, before decisions are made.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen & Others,
>
> I distributed flyers for the Stoprd.com cause and
> I obviously hope for the best of results. However,
> don't think that this will be over that easy.
> Without predicting election results I don't see a
> scenario where this boundary change issue simply
> goes away. We have a fight ahead of us regarless.
>
> If we don't plan on finishing the game then we
> will lose out to those that continue to organize
> and strongly voice their opposition. Please be
> prepared to open your checkbooks and donate your
> time. We are very happy at Oakton and are willing
> to fight to stay there.
Absolutely. I do hope that if the best case scenario happens, and we get people elected who are willing to take another look at this whole process, that it won't mean that we all relax. I cannot imagine that they will abandon the process and the plan to move kids to South Lakes entirely. But it would be nice if they really take a closer look at all the data AND LISTEN TO THE CITIZENS, before decisions are made.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CHS Parent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 04:09PM
Chantilly parents feel the same way. We are very happy at Chantilly and are willing to fight to stay there. WE DO NOT WANT TO BE A DOMINO IN THE SCHOOL BOARD'S GAME.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WHS Parent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 04:26PM
I spent the entire morning at the polls for StopRD. The traffic was brisk and we hopefully influenced many voters. Stu Gibson actually had the audacity to show up as well and was promptly shut out. He even got into with another representative showing his ignorance and total arrogance -- what a jerk! He's got to go!!!!
We all want to stay at our schools. We've been through this too many times! Leave us alone FCPS. Hopefully we'll make a change in our "leadership" today and bring back the reputation that FCPS once had!
We don't want to change high schools . . . AGAIN! Leave us at Westfield!
GO BULLDOGS!
We all want to stay at our schools. We've been through this too many times! Leave us alone FCPS. Hopefully we'll make a change in our "leadership" today and bring back the reputation that FCPS once had!
We don't want to change high schools . . . AGAIN! Leave us at Westfield!
GO BULLDOGS!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 06, 2007 04:37PM
Kathy Smith will surely be voted out of office. I am hopeful that Stu Gibson will as well. The at-large seats were very close last election, separated by hundreds of votes out of 80,000 a piece - so let's hope Braunlich, Raney, and Costantino are in as well. -- Thanks to the good people of StopRD!
Let's remember the clowns that are shown the door will remain in office until Dec 31, creating all sorts of problems as they show a vindictive side to their unhappy constituants. They however will not get to vote on any of this, but they will be influencing the scenarios that are drawn up.
Everyone I know is willing to do whatever it takes.
Let's remember the clowns that are shown the door will remain in office until Dec 31, creating all sorts of problems as they show a vindictive side to their unhappy constituants. They however will not get to vote on any of this, but they will be influencing the scenarios that are drawn up.
Everyone I know is willing to do whatever it takes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougar
()
Date: November 06, 2007 05:23PM
StopRD was out in full force at Oak Hill ES and were professional in handing out the flyers. I observed many people stop and take one and say thank you for the effort. Litz I think is in, the Smith person there couldn't give away redskin tickets. Nobody was listening to her. We can't stop with this one win though we must move throught the next three meetings as an organized group. Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly/Herndon UNITE!!!! We can battle on the sports field for years lets keep it that way. Let's stand together and win this one for our children to keep them were they are.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
one more voter
()
Date: November 06, 2007 06:26PM
I just came back from voting....and for the looks of the long line...the votes went to....NOT STU!!!
I engaged in several talks with the voters and everyone of them came to vote for
Christine....hopefully the jerk is being voted off.
I engaged in several talks with the voters and everyone of them came to vote for
Christine....hopefully the jerk is being voted off.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLParent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 06:49PM
I am glad to hear that one group was professional in handing out materials. My son was volunteering this morning at Floris and had to listen to parent volunteer bash SLHS all morning by swearing and calling the SL students hoodlums.
Since he's a senior and loves SL this was very hard for him to listen to during the morning. I am proud to say he was the "bigger" person and didn't argue with the parent during his volunteer time. He politely approached the adult when voters were not around and explained that South Lakes is a good school.
Please keep the kids out of the ugliness. I understand everyone is upset but he enjoys his school and has tremendous pride in SL. It's not his fault that FCPS is going to redistrict your families to his school.
Since he's a senior and loves SL this was very hard for him to listen to during the morning. I am proud to say he was the "bigger" person and didn't argue with the parent during his volunteer time. He politely approached the adult when voters were not around and explained that South Lakes is a good school.
Please keep the kids out of the ugliness. I understand everyone is upset but he enjoys his school and has tremendous pride in SL. It's not his fault that FCPS is going to redistrict your families to his school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 06, 2007 06:59PM
SLParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am glad to hear that one group was professional
> in handing out materials. My son was volunteering
> this morning at Floris and had to listen to parent
> volunteer bash SLHS all morning by swearing and
> calling the SL students hoodlums.
>
> Since he's a senior and loves SL this was very
> hard for him to listen to during the morning. I
> am proud to say he was the "bigger" person and
> didn't argue with the parent during his volunteer
> time. He politely approached the adult when
> voters were not around and explained that South
> Lakes is a good school.
>
> Please keep the kids out of the ugliness. I
> understand everyone is upset but he enjoys his
> school and has tremendous pride in SL. It's not
> his fault that FCPS is going to redistrict your
> families to his school.
I'm sorry your son had to listen to that when he was there giving freely of his time. As badly as I want my kids to stay at Oakton, I do understand your concerns that the kids should definitely not be broad brushed. My daughter has been volunteering at the polls as well today. I will be interested to hear her take on the situation as her precinct was a South Lakes feeder school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am glad to hear that one group was professional
> in handing out materials. My son was volunteering
> this morning at Floris and had to listen to parent
> volunteer bash SLHS all morning by swearing and
> calling the SL students hoodlums.
>
> Since he's a senior and loves SL this was very
> hard for him to listen to during the morning. I
> am proud to say he was the "bigger" person and
> didn't argue with the parent during his volunteer
> time. He politely approached the adult when
> voters were not around and explained that South
> Lakes is a good school.
>
> Please keep the kids out of the ugliness. I
> understand everyone is upset but he enjoys his
> school and has tremendous pride in SL. It's not
> his fault that FCPS is going to redistrict your
> families to his school.
I'm sorry your son had to listen to that when he was there giving freely of his time. As badly as I want my kids to stay at Oakton, I do understand your concerns that the kids should definitely not be broad brushed. My daughter has been volunteering at the polls as well today. I will be interested to hear her take on the situation as her precinct was a South Lakes feeder school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 08:10PM
APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Johns Hopkins University demonstrates another way
> that colleges distinguish between AP and IB
> courses: they sometimes require higher scores on
> AP than on IB HL classes for the same amount of
> credit.
>
> For example, a 4 or 5 in AP Chem or AP Biology is
> worth 8 credits. A 6 or 7 in IB HL Chem or IB HL
> Biology is worth 8 credits. At least in FCPS, a
> higher percentage of kids score 4+ on AP exams
> than 6+ on IB HL exams. Remember, FCPS normally
> reports only the percentage of kids with "passing"
> scores of 3+ on the AP tests and 4+ on the IB
> tests (and includes IB SL tests in those press
> releases). That data is not useful. Parents need
> to know how many scored 6 or 7 on each HL test.
>
> JHU also recognizes that IB has a math class that
> is comparable to AP Calc BC, IB Further Math SL,
> which is not offered in FCPS. At JHU, scoring a 3
> on AP Calc BC gets you 4 credits and scoring 4 or
> 5 gets you 8 credits. IB SL Math gets you
> nothing. A 6+/7 in HL Math is worth 4 credits.
> Taking HL Math with Further Math and getting a 5
> is worth 4 credits. BUT, taking HL Math with
> Further Math and scoring 6 or 7 is worth 8
> credits. Just like taking AP Calculus BC.
The fact that a university requires a "higher score" for IB is irrelevant. The score is on an arbitrary scale! I do believe, however, that your statement "At least in FCPS, a higher percentage of kids score 4+ on AP exams than 6+ on IB HL exams." is potentially relevant. Can you provide the source for the statement? Thanks.
By the way, here is my sampling of schools and credit that can be awarded for AP Math B/C and for IB HL Math:
School AP IB
UVA 131/132 131/200T
William and Mary 111/112 111/112
VA Tech 1205/1206 1205/1206
Johns Hopkins 8 credits 4 credits
MIT 12 units 12 units
Cal Tech None None
Michigan 8 credits 8 credits
Cornell 8 credits 4 credits
RPI 8 credits 4 credits
Yale 2 credits None
Georgia Tech 4 credits 4 credits
I got the information from the admissions section of each school's website. This list shows the maximum credit given (sometimes requires higher than passing scores on the applicable test). There are schools that award more credit for AP than for IB, but some notable schools award equal amounts.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Johns Hopkins University demonstrates another way
> that colleges distinguish between AP and IB
> courses: they sometimes require higher scores on
> AP than on IB HL classes for the same amount of
> credit.
>
> For example, a 4 or 5 in AP Chem or AP Biology is
> worth 8 credits. A 6 or 7 in IB HL Chem or IB HL
> Biology is worth 8 credits. At least in FCPS, a
> higher percentage of kids score 4+ on AP exams
> than 6+ on IB HL exams. Remember, FCPS normally
> reports only the percentage of kids with "passing"
> scores of 3+ on the AP tests and 4+ on the IB
> tests (and includes IB SL tests in those press
> releases). That data is not useful. Parents need
> to know how many scored 6 or 7 on each HL test.
>
> JHU also recognizes that IB has a math class that
> is comparable to AP Calc BC, IB Further Math SL,
> which is not offered in FCPS. At JHU, scoring a 3
> on AP Calc BC gets you 4 credits and scoring 4 or
> 5 gets you 8 credits. IB SL Math gets you
> nothing. A 6+/7 in HL Math is worth 4 credits.
> Taking HL Math with Further Math and getting a 5
> is worth 4 credits. BUT, taking HL Math with
> Further Math and scoring 6 or 7 is worth 8
> credits. Just like taking AP Calculus BC.
The fact that a university requires a "higher score" for IB is irrelevant. The score is on an arbitrary scale! I do believe, however, that your statement "At least in FCPS, a higher percentage of kids score 4+ on AP exams than 6+ on IB HL exams." is potentially relevant. Can you provide the source for the statement? Thanks.
By the way, here is my sampling of schools and credit that can be awarded for AP Math B/C and for IB HL Math:
School AP IB
UVA 131/132 131/200T
William and Mary 111/112 111/112
VA Tech 1205/1206 1205/1206
Johns Hopkins 8 credits 4 credits
MIT 12 units 12 units
Cal Tech None None
Michigan 8 credits 8 credits
Cornell 8 credits 4 credits
RPI 8 credits 4 credits
Yale 2 credits None
Georgia Tech 4 credits 4 credits
I got the information from the admissions section of each school's website. This list shows the maximum credit given (sometimes requires higher than passing scores on the applicable test). There are schools that award more credit for AP than for IB, but some notable schools award equal amounts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:21PM
A few years ago, FCPS staff distributed data about 2003-04 AP and IB scores county-wide for each AP and IB test, at the GT Advisory Committee. The source was IT/EIS/DS - November 2004.
124 FCPS students were taking HL Math. 4 scored 7, 10 scored 6, 12 scored 5, and 21 scored 4. The rest had scores of 1 to 3.
974 FCPS students were taking Calc BC. 394 scored 5, 184 scored 4, 185 scored 3, and the rest had scores of 1 or 2.
1330 FCPS students were taking Calc AB. 181 scored 5, 231 scored 4, 234 scored 3, and the rest had scores of 1 or 2.
In January 2006, Bernie Glaze distributed data for 2004-05 at GTAC.
108 students were taking HL Math. 2 scored 7, 7 scored 6, 17 scored 5, and the rest scored from 1 to 4.
1063 were taking Calc BC. 543 scored 5, 185 scored 4, 187 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or 2.
1432 were taking Calc AB. 291 scored 5, 287 scored 4, 258 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or 2.
Moving from math to science, 126 FCPS students took HL Biology that year. 2 scored 7, 9 scored 6, 27 scored 5, 51 scored 4 and 37 scored 3.
886 FCPS students took AP Biology. 222 scored 5, 181 scored 4, 180 scored 3, 212 scored 2 and 91 scored 1.
124 FCPS students were taking HL Math. 4 scored 7, 10 scored 6, 12 scored 5, and 21 scored 4. The rest had scores of 1 to 3.
974 FCPS students were taking Calc BC. 394 scored 5, 184 scored 4, 185 scored 3, and the rest had scores of 1 or 2.
1330 FCPS students were taking Calc AB. 181 scored 5, 231 scored 4, 234 scored 3, and the rest had scores of 1 or 2.
In January 2006, Bernie Glaze distributed data for 2004-05 at GTAC.
108 students were taking HL Math. 2 scored 7, 7 scored 6, 17 scored 5, and the rest scored from 1 to 4.
1063 were taking Calc BC. 543 scored 5, 185 scored 4, 187 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or 2.
1432 were taking Calc AB. 291 scored 5, 287 scored 4, 258 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or 2.
Moving from math to science, 126 FCPS students took HL Biology that year. 2 scored 7, 9 scored 6, 27 scored 5, 51 scored 4 and 37 scored 3.
886 FCPS students took AP Biology. 222 scored 5, 181 scored 4, 180 scored 3, 212 scored 2 and 91 scored 1.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:30PM
WE ARE HOSED!
ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY (close).
THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR THE HS.
TIME FOR PLAN B.
ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY (close).
THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR THE HS.
TIME FOR PLAN B.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:44PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WE ARE HOSED!
>
> ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE
> COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY
> (close).
>
> THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE
> CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR
> THE HS.
>
> TIME FOR PLAN B.
which is what exactly?
-------------------------------------------------------
> WE ARE HOSED!
>
> ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE
> COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY
> (close).
>
> THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE
> CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR
> THE HS.
>
> TIME FOR PLAN B.
which is what exactly?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:44PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WE ARE HOSED!
>
> ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE
> COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY
> (close).
>
> THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE
> CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR
> THE HS.
>
> TIME FOR PLAN B.
and that is?
-------------------------------------------------------
> WE ARE HOSED!
>
> ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE
> COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY
> (close).
>
> THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE
> CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR
> THE HS.
>
> TIME FOR PLAN B.
and that is?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:46PM
@ 10:44....
"...which is what exactly?"
"...and that is?"
Fancy That!
"...which is what exactly?"
"...and that is?"
Fancy That!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:55PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WE ARE HOSED!
>
> ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE
> COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY
> (close).
>
> THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE
> CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR
> THE HS.
>
And, even more disappointing...I had my "Wizard of Oz" soundtrack set and ready to play "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" hmmm, rats.
-------------------------------------------------------
> WE ARE HOSED!
>
> ELECTION RETURNS INDICATE KATHY AND STU WILL BE
> COMING BACK. INDEPENDENTS - MOON, HONE AND RANEY
> (close).
>
> THOSE ON THE CUTTING LINES VOTED HEAVILY FOR THE
> CHALLEGERS, NO HELP FROM THE SAFE DISTRICTS NEAR
> THE HS.
>
And, even more disappointing...I had my "Wizard of Oz" soundtrack set and ready to play "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" hmmm, rats.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:57PM
I guess, it's show up to the meetings and be vocal... and don't expect any help from your fellow HS people that are not in jeapordy. As the election results bear out, this is only an issue for those of us on the cutting line. For example Fox Mill voted for Christine 2:1. Other parts of HMILL are the opposite. Oak Hill ES the same thing.
I've got alot of respect for the Herndon people because they are unified - no changes to borders. CHS, OHS, WSFS - no such unification. They don't give a damn as long as doesn't affect them.
I've got alot of respect for the Herndon people because they are unified - no changes to borders. CHS, OHS, WSFS - no such unification. They don't give a damn as long as doesn't affect them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:57PM
See, instead of bloviating on here for weeks....you could have been holding bake sales to fund your futile legal challenge of the re-ddistricting.
Oh well, Goodbye Chantilly and Oakton and HELLO South Lakes!
Oh well, Goodbye Chantilly and Oakton and HELLO South Lakes!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 10:59PM
APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few years ago, FCPS staff distributed data about
> 2003-04 AP and IB scores county-wide for each AP
> and IB test, at the GT Advisory Committee. The
> source was IT/EIS/DS - November 2004.
>
> 124 FCPS students were taking HL Math. 4 scored
> 7, 10 scored 6, 12 scored 5, and 21 scored 4. The
> rest had scores of 1 to 3.
>
> 974 FCPS students were taking Calc BC. 394 scored
> 5, 184 scored 4, 185 scored 3, and the rest had
> scores of 1 or 2.
>
> 1330 FCPS students were taking Calc AB. 181
> scored 5, 231 scored 4, 234 scored 3, and the rest
> had scores of 1 or 2.
>
> In January 2006, Bernie Glaze distributed data for
> 2004-05 at GTAC.
>
> 108 students were taking HL Math. 2 scored 7, 7
> scored 6, 17 scored 5, and the rest scored from 1
> to 4.
>
> 1063 were taking Calc BC. 543 scored 5, 185
> scored 4, 187 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or
> 2.
>
> 1432 were taking Calc AB. 291 scored 5, 287
> scored 4, 258 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or
> 2.
>
> Moving from math to science, 126 FCPS students
> took HL Biology that year. 2 scored 7, 9 scored
> 6, 27 scored 5, 51 scored 4 and 37 scored 3.
>
> 886 FCPS students took AP Biology. 222 scored 5,
> 181 scored 4, 180 scored 3, 212 scored 2 and 91
> scored 1.
Thanks for the great info! If we assume that an AP Calculus BC score 4 is approximately equal to an IB HL score 5 (Virginia Tech), it is quite clear that students who take FCPS AP are better prepared for their tests than those who take IB. Of course, we cannot tell if this is due to:
- AP teachers are better than IB teachers
- AP students are better than IB students
- AP curriculum better prepares students for their tests than does the IB curriculum
It does support the conclusion that a student is more likely to get college credit for math if he/she takes AP than IB in Fairfax County.
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few years ago, FCPS staff distributed data about
> 2003-04 AP and IB scores county-wide for each AP
> and IB test, at the GT Advisory Committee. The
> source was IT/EIS/DS - November 2004.
>
> 124 FCPS students were taking HL Math. 4 scored
> 7, 10 scored 6, 12 scored 5, and 21 scored 4. The
> rest had scores of 1 to 3.
>
> 974 FCPS students were taking Calc BC. 394 scored
> 5, 184 scored 4, 185 scored 3, and the rest had
> scores of 1 or 2.
>
> 1330 FCPS students were taking Calc AB. 181
> scored 5, 231 scored 4, 234 scored 3, and the rest
> had scores of 1 or 2.
>
> In January 2006, Bernie Glaze distributed data for
> 2004-05 at GTAC.
>
> 108 students were taking HL Math. 2 scored 7, 7
> scored 6, 17 scored 5, and the rest scored from 1
> to 4.
>
> 1063 were taking Calc BC. 543 scored 5, 185
> scored 4, 187 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or
> 2.
>
> 1432 were taking Calc AB. 291 scored 5, 287
> scored 4, 258 scored 3, and the rest scored 1 or
> 2.
>
> Moving from math to science, 126 FCPS students
> took HL Biology that year. 2 scored 7, 9 scored
> 6, 27 scored 5, 51 scored 4 and 37 scored 3.
>
> 886 FCPS students took AP Biology. 222 scored 5,
> 181 scored 4, 180 scored 3, 212 scored 2 and 91
> scored 1.
Thanks for the great info! If we assume that an AP Calculus BC score 4 is approximately equal to an IB HL score 5 (Virginia Tech), it is quite clear that students who take FCPS AP are better prepared for their tests than those who take IB. Of course, we cannot tell if this is due to:
- AP teachers are better than IB teachers
- AP students are better than IB students
- AP curriculum better prepares students for their tests than does the IB curriculum
It does support the conclusion that a student is more likely to get college credit for math if he/she takes AP than IB in Fairfax County.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:08PM
>
> I've got alot of respect for the Herndon people
> because they are unified - no changes to borders.
> CHS, OHS, WSFS - no such unification. They don't
> give a damn as long as doesn't affect them.
Well, it does affect the bubbleheads. they just don't get that at the moment. of course when they do, it will be too late.
> I've got alot of respect for the Herndon people
> because they are unified - no changes to borders.
> CHS, OHS, WSFS - no such unification. They don't
> give a damn as long as doesn't affect them.
Well, it does affect the bubbleheads. they just don't get that at the moment. of course when they do, it will be too late.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:09PM
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
How about if you 2 start a new "I love AP/IB" topic?
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
How about if you 2 start a new "I love AP/IB" topic?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:15PM
Msg for Stu...
Take ALDRIN instead of FOX MILL they won't mind. (way to show up at the polls Fox Mill - huge turnout)
229 - FOX MILL
Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:34PM EST
Christine A. Arakelian 1,033 63.64%
Stuart D. Gibson 590 36.35%
Write In 0 0%
234 - ALDRIN
Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:53PM EST
Christine A. Arakelian 473 39.25%
Stuart D. Gibson 731 60.66%
Write In 1 0.08%
Take ALDRIN instead of FOX MILL they won't mind. (way to show up at the polls Fox Mill - huge turnout)
229 - FOX MILL
Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:34PM EST
Christine A. Arakelian 1,033 63.64%
Stuart D. Gibson 590 36.35%
Write In 0 0%
234 - ALDRIN
Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:53PM EST
Christine A. Arakelian 473 39.25%
Stuart D. Gibson 731 60.66%
Write In 1 0.08%
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:24PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > APorIBMom Wrote:
>
>
> How about if you 2 start a new "I love AP/IB"
> topic?
Right after you start a new topic on the election... These are all topics that are relevant to the redistricting. If my child is going to take out of a planned track to Oakton and instead sent to South Lakes, I want to understand how that will impact him. Sorry if that is too much trouble for you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > APorIBMom Wrote:
>
>
> How about if you 2 start a new "I love AP/IB"
> topic?
Right after you start a new topic on the election... These are all topics that are relevant to the redistricting. If my child is going to take out of a planned track to Oakton and instead sent to South Lakes, I want to understand how that will impact him. Sorry if that is too much trouble for you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:27PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Msg for Stu...
>
> Take ALDRIN instead of FOX MILL they won't mind.
> (way to show up at the polls Fox Mill - huge
> turnout)
>
> 229 - FOX MILL
> Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:34PM EST
> Christine A. Arakelian 1,033 63.64%
> Stuart D. Gibson 590 36.35%
> Write In 0 0%
>
> 234 - ALDRIN
> Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:53PM EST
> Christine A. Arakelian 473 39.25%
> Stuart D. Gibson 731 60.66%
> Write In 1 0.08%
Aldrin voted for Stu because he had promised to keep them in Herndon. Aldrin ain't moving anywhere.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Msg for Stu...
>
> Take ALDRIN instead of FOX MILL they won't mind.
> (way to show up at the polls Fox Mill - huge
> turnout)
>
> 229 - FOX MILL
> Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:34PM EST
> Christine A. Arakelian 1,033 63.64%
> Stuart D. Gibson 590 36.35%
> Write In 0 0%
>
> 234 - ALDRIN
> Last Reported: Nov 6 2007 10:53PM EST
> Christine A. Arakelian 473 39.25%
> Stuart D. Gibson 731 60.66%
> Write In 1 0.08%
Aldrin voted for Stu because he had promised to keep them in Herndon. Aldrin ain't moving anywhere.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:31PM
Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > APorIBMom Wrote:
> >
> >
> > How about if you 2 start a new "I love AP/IB"
> > topic?
>
> Right after you start a new topic on the
> election... These are all topics that are
> relevant to the redistricting. If my child is
> going to take out of a planned track to Oakton and
> instead sent to South Lakes, I want to understand
> how that will impact him. Sorry if that is too
> much trouble for you.
Not suggesting that it is trouble. Just thinking it is a topic that could stand on its own and would attract more viewers who might weigh in on the discussion (those who don't necessarily care about redistricting and who might be able to share more data on AP/IB--this is a big county, you know).
What is troubling though, is your snotty reply.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Concerned Rachel Carson Parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > APorIBMom Wrote:
> >
> >
> > How about if you 2 start a new "I love AP/IB"
> > topic?
>
> Right after you start a new topic on the
> election... These are all topics that are
> relevant to the redistricting. If my child is
> going to take out of a planned track to Oakton and
> instead sent to South Lakes, I want to understand
> how that will impact him. Sorry if that is too
> much trouble for you.
Not suggesting that it is trouble. Just thinking it is a topic that could stand on its own and would attract more viewers who might weigh in on the discussion (those who don't necessarily care about redistricting and who might be able to share more data on AP/IB--this is a big county, you know).
What is troubling though, is your snotty reply.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:36PM
Thomas - Yes it would be just like Stu to F*CK his constituants in this way.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 06, 2007 11:37PM
PLAN B - A unified Reston / ALDRIN GOES TO SOUTH LAKES
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 12:04AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PLAN B - A unified Reston / ALDRIN GOES TO SOUTH
> LAKES
That has been my objective from the beginning of this process. This morning I believe there is no hope of that outcome.
It's most likely the island, Fox Mill and McNair south of the Toll Road to SL. Those numbers work if the numbers from McNair south of Toll Road are 350.
Stu is just that craven and cynical.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 01:33AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> PLAN B - A unified Reston / ALDRIN GOES TO SOUTH
> LAKES
That has been my objective from the beginning of this process. This morning I believe there is no hope of that outcome.
It's most likely the island, Fox Mill and McNair south of the Toll Road to SL. Those numbers work if the numbers from McNair south of Toll Road are 350.
Stu is just that craven and cynical.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 01:33AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLMom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 01:46AM
I am frankly sickened by the attitude of some of the posters toward South Lakes. We have been in Reston for 30 years and both of my children have been in the South Lakes pyramid. My son graduated in 2001. At that point the school was in a decline with a number of gang-related incidents, yet he managed to get through school unscathed and graduate with his friends. The most positive part of his experience was his Assistant Principal, Bruce Butler, who was unfailing interested in the kids' well-being and insisted on open communications between teachers, administration and parents. As an assistant principal he was limited in his ability to make some of these things happen. As an example, I had one teacher who told me she refused to talk to parents after school hours, although she wasn't really available during school hours either. (As the wife of a teacher, I know that sometimes evening calls are necessary). The principal's office didn't seem to think that was a problem.
My daughter is a Junior at South Lakes now and couldn't be happier with the situation. Bruce has made huge strides in communications between staff and parents and the teachers currently at the school seem to be making a real effort to work with the students and their parents. There's also a real willingness to listen to parent and student input regarding teachers who aren't pulling their weight, exhibit a lack of teaching skills, or show a lack of concern for their students. We've seen some leave in the past two years as a result of this. Discipline for students has also improved hugely. Infractions that were tolerated or ignored during the previous administration were addressed. The improvements are obvious to all of us and enthusiasm for the school is on a decided upswing (as are our SAT scores).
I'm truly insulted by the attitude of some posters, as they imply that my sending my child to South Lakes means that I don't care for her safety or the quality of her education. What arrogance is displayed in questioning the judgment of all South Lakes parents in that way.
My daughter excels as a student (straight A's), is in the National Honor Society, and is in the IB diploma program (which, let no one kid you, is a demanding program). She participates (heavily) in sports year-round and takes part in artistic programs as well. Her standardized test scores are in the top percentiles and she has been courted by top colleges (in spite of opting not to go to TJ). She is, in short a student who would excel at any school.
She steadfastly has avoided being a part of a clique. She prefers having friends from all socioeconomic, ethnic and religious backgrounds, and enjoys spending time with them. She is, in fact, considering taking a "break year" after graduation so that she can travel and learn more about the rest of the world. (I suspect that she's figured out that we're not the center of the universe). (grin)
She has *never* felt threatened or unsafe in her school.
I envy her the experiences that she's had. She'll move into the world much more comfortably than I (with my Midwestern white-bread background) was initially able to.
Chris Cox, a graduating Senior in 2006, eloquently stated his reasons for being grateful that he attended South Lakes. After addressing the "fears" that others have regarding the school, he said:
"You cannot graduate from our high school with the same ignorance that is encouraged in other parts of the world. Our high school represents more cultures and religions than any other in our area, and is the reason I am most proud to have been a student at South Lakes."
His entire speech is attached, in PDF format.
*That* is the kind of student we have at South Lakes these days. And that's why, regardless of the fears of others, we're proud to "subject" our children to the South Lakes experience.
Attachments:
My daughter is a Junior at South Lakes now and couldn't be happier with the situation. Bruce has made huge strides in communications between staff and parents and the teachers currently at the school seem to be making a real effort to work with the students and their parents. There's also a real willingness to listen to parent and student input regarding teachers who aren't pulling their weight, exhibit a lack of teaching skills, or show a lack of concern for their students. We've seen some leave in the past two years as a result of this. Discipline for students has also improved hugely. Infractions that were tolerated or ignored during the previous administration were addressed. The improvements are obvious to all of us and enthusiasm for the school is on a decided upswing (as are our SAT scores).
I'm truly insulted by the attitude of some posters, as they imply that my sending my child to South Lakes means that I don't care for her safety or the quality of her education. What arrogance is displayed in questioning the judgment of all South Lakes parents in that way.
My daughter excels as a student (straight A's), is in the National Honor Society, and is in the IB diploma program (which, let no one kid you, is a demanding program). She participates (heavily) in sports year-round and takes part in artistic programs as well. Her standardized test scores are in the top percentiles and she has been courted by top colleges (in spite of opting not to go to TJ). She is, in short a student who would excel at any school.
She steadfastly has avoided being a part of a clique. She prefers having friends from all socioeconomic, ethnic and religious backgrounds, and enjoys spending time with them. She is, in fact, considering taking a "break year" after graduation so that she can travel and learn more about the rest of the world. (I suspect that she's figured out that we're not the center of the universe). (grin)
She has *never* felt threatened or unsafe in her school.
I envy her the experiences that she's had. She'll move into the world much more comfortably than I (with my Midwestern white-bread background) was initially able to.
Chris Cox, a graduating Senior in 2006, eloquently stated his reasons for being grateful that he attended South Lakes. After addressing the "fears" that others have regarding the school, he said:
"You cannot graduate from our high school with the same ignorance that is encouraged in other parts of the world. Our high school represents more cultures and religions than any other in our area, and is the reason I am most proud to have been a student at South Lakes."
His entire speech is attached, in PDF format.
*That* is the kind of student we have at South Lakes these days. And that's why, regardless of the fears of others, we're proud to "subject" our children to the South Lakes experience.
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
no activities
()
Date: November 07, 2007 06:26AM
If this things starts to roll we need to stand together Herndon, Westfield,Chantilly,Oakton and any other concorde district school that wants to assist. All students should refrain from playing sports, band, drama, and any other activity that the schools have. Yes this may hurt for a season, but the message will be heard loud and clear by every major news network. Stop all volunteer work at the school stop buying all school spirit packages, avoid signing up for CYA, HYA, RYA, etc... I know this is extreme but this message will be heard loud and clear and Stu and Kathy will be to blame for this.
Paul VI make room here we come
Paul VI make room here we come
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
RUKidding
()
Date: November 07, 2007 07:27AM
Hey, great idea. All you need to make your revenge complete is to ask all students to refrain from doing schoolwork as well.
I suspect that parents in the "undesirable" schools you're targeting would prefer that *you* don't participate in school activities.
Perhaps your best revenge would be to move .. to another school, another district, another state ..
I suspect that parents in the "undesirable" schools you're targeting would prefer that *you* don't participate in school activities.
Perhaps your best revenge would be to move .. to another school, another district, another state ..
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 07:29AM
Given the election results perhaps IB vs, AP curriculum analyses will be of more interest than in the past.
One likely explanation for why FCPS IB students rarely score 6 or 7, while FCPS AP students often score 4 or 5, is that the IB syllabus for HL Math is designed with 7 mandatory units (mostly precalc) plus 4 optional more advanced units. Perhaps the FCPS teachers are giving the optional advanced units short shrift. In contrast, AP teachers usually feel compelled to cover all topics.
VA Tech's approach to HL Math credit is unusual, because the 5 out of 7 on IB HL Math only counts if the student also gets an IB Diploma.
Few colleges still give credit based on whether a student gets an IB Diploma. Rather, they look solely at the scores on individual HL tests. Indeed, the most advanced student I know in an IB school is not getting an IB Diploma. He takes IB humanities classes at school, plus math/science classes at his local college.
One likely explanation for why FCPS IB students rarely score 6 or 7, while FCPS AP students often score 4 or 5, is that the IB syllabus for HL Math is designed with 7 mandatory units (mostly precalc) plus 4 optional more advanced units. Perhaps the FCPS teachers are giving the optional advanced units short shrift. In contrast, AP teachers usually feel compelled to cover all topics.
VA Tech's approach to HL Math credit is unusual, because the 5 out of 7 on IB HL Math only counts if the student also gets an IB Diploma.
Few colleges still give credit based on whether a student gets an IB Diploma. Rather, they look solely at the scores on individual HL tests. Indeed, the most advanced student I know in an IB school is not getting an IB Diploma. He takes IB humanities classes at school, plus math/science classes at his local college.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 07, 2007 08:18AM
It sounds to me like the main criticism of IB is in the math/science area. IB may be superior for English, history, etc.
It might be possible with more kids and great demand for those higher level math and science courses to put more AP courses in those areas in place at SL.
That way, we'd have classes that meet the student's needs in all areas available to them.
AP/IB mom, keep up the good work. I think there should be more analysis so that all South Lakes and potential South Lakes parents are informed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 08:19AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
It might be possible with more kids and great demand for those higher level math and science courses to put more AP courses in those areas in place at SL.
That way, we'd have classes that meet the student's needs in all areas available to them.
AP/IB mom, keep up the good work. I think there should be more analysis so that all South Lakes and potential South Lakes parents are informed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 08:19AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
From Paul VI
Posted by:
Exodus
()
Date: November 07, 2007 09:17AM
Dear blessed No Activities:
Please let us make it simple for you and Paul VI:
You shall make a large check to our institution and thou shalt keep your kids home...since they indubitably would not participate in any school activity anyway, given the relevant parental model.
We shalt give you credit for attendance, and you and your progeny shalt not participate in academic, athletic, or other extracurricular activities.
We will trumpet your "message".
Please let us make it simple for you and Paul VI:
You shall make a large check to our institution and thou shalt keep your kids home...since they indubitably would not participate in any school activity anyway, given the relevant parental model.
We shalt give you credit for attendance, and you and your progeny shalt not participate in academic, athletic, or other extracurricular activities.
We will trumpet your "message".
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 09:59AM
To the StopRD folks who keep insisting that there are few, if any, parents in your area willing to have their kids redistricted to South Lakes, read the following:
A Response to the Recent Bradley Farm Flyer entitled “ Your Property Values and School Boundaries”
I was a very dismayed to receive the recent flyer entitled “Your Property Values and School Boundaries”. I found various portions of the flyer that alluded that South Lakes High School is inferior to Westfields, Chantilly and Oakton and therefore the possible cause of lowering property values to be a ridiculous accusation and extremely offensive. As a resident of Bradley Farm, I felt that the distribution of the flyer was the abuse of leadership position since the BFHOA website was being utilized as a method for further contact. In the future, it would be much appreciated, if you supplied all sides of an argument so that our residents can make informed decisions. This is regardless of who pays for the materials. If you do not want to supply all sides of an issue than please use your private email addresses for further contact.
I have no issue if you oppose redistricting due to the fact that we have been caught up in 3 boundary changes in the past 10 years with a possible 4th on the way. That is a valid community concern. I also do not have an issue if you oppose the redistricting because you already have a child attending one school with the possibility of having the next child attending a different school. That puts a huge strain on any family, therefore, I would also consider that to be a valid personal argument against redistricting.
What I find offensive is that you attempt to compare schools without doing your homework first and then have the nerve to assume the entire community supports your viewpoint. There are quite a few households on the north side of West Ox that totally support the opportunity to be a part of South Lakes High School, because we have done our homework. We understand that numbers and statistics are just that and never tell a complete story. We have attended meetings about the differences between the IB program and the AP program and believe they are both equally excellent and will prepare our children for college. Some of us (God forbid!) might even prefer the IB program, because we firmly believe it is the program that will teach our children how to think and analyze and will help them solve the problems they will have to face in the global community over the next 50 years. We have attended the meetings where we met the principals from South Lakes and Oakton and discovered that we really liked the open, welcoming, respectful attitude of Bruce Butler, Principal of South Lakes and the engaging students that came with him. We have toured South Lakes and have found that the newly renovated school will be a beautiful place to learn and that the diverse student body will teach our children to be more open-minded and accepting. We’ve talked to South Lakes parents, students, and graduates and have learned that they are very proud of their school despite the untrue, negative perceptions that continue to be circulated by uninformed people. We like that fact that South Lakes will have a relatively small student population of only 2,000 students as compared to the other high schools in western Fairfax County. But best of all, if we go to South Lakes, our children will be closer. They will have an additional hour in every school day because they won’t be commuting to Oakton. Hopefully, they will be a little safer because they will not be driving on those awful roads to Oakton after they get their driver’s licenses. We, as parents, will not need to drive as far. All this will help reduce the amount of congestion on the road. With traffic congestion being the considered the “most urgent problem” facing our county by about 75-80% of the candidates running for public office today, I have to ask… Why are we adding to this problem by bussing (or driving) our children 45 minutes away when there are seats available in a good school only 15 minutes away??? That is not using my tax dollars wisely and that makes me angry!
This redistricting needs to happen. There is overcrowding at Westfields and Chantilly and seats available at South Lakes. The magnet school idea has already been discussed and discarded by the School Board in the past. We cannot wait any longer to resolve these issues. The cost is too high at a time when funds are becoming scarce. Fairfax County (not just western Fairfax County) has some of the best schools in the country. Regardless of which school my children attend they will receive an excellent education. It continues to astound me that people in Fairfax County actually fight about the idea that one school is better than another. We should all be thankful that we are lucky enough to live in county where education is highly valued and is considered a high priority by our elected officials and the general population. Not every jurisdiction in the US is as fortunate. The great success of ALL Fairfax County schools, despite the challenges that each individual school has to overcome, reflects that attitude and we should be proud about it! Ultimately, all of our property values will actually increase because all the schools will benefit from the better use of available resources.
There are thousands of kids, families, adults that live in this area that are associated with South Lakes High School and I found the attitude in your flyer to be belittling, condescending and rude to that group of people by making them sound inferior to the residents of Bradley Farm. You have no right do that! We all understand that this is an extremely divisive issue that is putting major pressure on the individuals, families and communities involved. But it is also important to remember that each family’s choice is very personal and no one outcome will satisfy everyone. If you don’t respect others during this process it will only make a hard decision worse. Before you start implying negative things about a particular school, just remember, there are other individuals, families and communities just like yours that support that school for many reasons which you probably do not know. Be fair and courteous to them just as you would want them to be to you.
Sincerely,
Name Redacted
Bradley Farm Resident
P.S. – The name “South Lakes” is comprised of two words not one as you incorrectly state in the flyer.
A Response to the Recent Bradley Farm Flyer entitled “ Your Property Values and School Boundaries”
I was a very dismayed to receive the recent flyer entitled “Your Property Values and School Boundaries”. I found various portions of the flyer that alluded that South Lakes High School is inferior to Westfields, Chantilly and Oakton and therefore the possible cause of lowering property values to be a ridiculous accusation and extremely offensive. As a resident of Bradley Farm, I felt that the distribution of the flyer was the abuse of leadership position since the BFHOA website was being utilized as a method for further contact. In the future, it would be much appreciated, if you supplied all sides of an argument so that our residents can make informed decisions. This is regardless of who pays for the materials. If you do not want to supply all sides of an issue than please use your private email addresses for further contact.
I have no issue if you oppose redistricting due to the fact that we have been caught up in 3 boundary changes in the past 10 years with a possible 4th on the way. That is a valid community concern. I also do not have an issue if you oppose the redistricting because you already have a child attending one school with the possibility of having the next child attending a different school. That puts a huge strain on any family, therefore, I would also consider that to be a valid personal argument against redistricting.
What I find offensive is that you attempt to compare schools without doing your homework first and then have the nerve to assume the entire community supports your viewpoint. There are quite a few households on the north side of West Ox that totally support the opportunity to be a part of South Lakes High School, because we have done our homework. We understand that numbers and statistics are just that and never tell a complete story. We have attended meetings about the differences between the IB program and the AP program and believe they are both equally excellent and will prepare our children for college. Some of us (God forbid!) might even prefer the IB program, because we firmly believe it is the program that will teach our children how to think and analyze and will help them solve the problems they will have to face in the global community over the next 50 years. We have attended the meetings where we met the principals from South Lakes and Oakton and discovered that we really liked the open, welcoming, respectful attitude of Bruce Butler, Principal of South Lakes and the engaging students that came with him. We have toured South Lakes and have found that the newly renovated school will be a beautiful place to learn and that the diverse student body will teach our children to be more open-minded and accepting. We’ve talked to South Lakes parents, students, and graduates and have learned that they are very proud of their school despite the untrue, negative perceptions that continue to be circulated by uninformed people. We like that fact that South Lakes will have a relatively small student population of only 2,000 students as compared to the other high schools in western Fairfax County. But best of all, if we go to South Lakes, our children will be closer. They will have an additional hour in every school day because they won’t be commuting to Oakton. Hopefully, they will be a little safer because they will not be driving on those awful roads to Oakton after they get their driver’s licenses. We, as parents, will not need to drive as far. All this will help reduce the amount of congestion on the road. With traffic congestion being the considered the “most urgent problem” facing our county by about 75-80% of the candidates running for public office today, I have to ask… Why are we adding to this problem by bussing (or driving) our children 45 minutes away when there are seats available in a good school only 15 minutes away??? That is not using my tax dollars wisely and that makes me angry!
This redistricting needs to happen. There is overcrowding at Westfields and Chantilly and seats available at South Lakes. The magnet school idea has already been discussed and discarded by the School Board in the past. We cannot wait any longer to resolve these issues. The cost is too high at a time when funds are becoming scarce. Fairfax County (not just western Fairfax County) has some of the best schools in the country. Regardless of which school my children attend they will receive an excellent education. It continues to astound me that people in Fairfax County actually fight about the idea that one school is better than another. We should all be thankful that we are lucky enough to live in county where education is highly valued and is considered a high priority by our elected officials and the general population. Not every jurisdiction in the US is as fortunate. The great success of ALL Fairfax County schools, despite the challenges that each individual school has to overcome, reflects that attitude and we should be proud about it! Ultimately, all of our property values will actually increase because all the schools will benefit from the better use of available resources.
There are thousands of kids, families, adults that live in this area that are associated with South Lakes High School and I found the attitude in your flyer to be belittling, condescending and rude to that group of people by making them sound inferior to the residents of Bradley Farm. You have no right do that! We all understand that this is an extremely divisive issue that is putting major pressure on the individuals, families and communities involved. But it is also important to remember that each family’s choice is very personal and no one outcome will satisfy everyone. If you don’t respect others during this process it will only make a hard decision worse. Before you start implying negative things about a particular school, just remember, there are other individuals, families and communities just like yours that support that school for many reasons which you probably do not know. Be fair and courteous to them just as you would want them to be to you.
Sincerely,
Name Redacted
Bradley Farm Resident
P.S. – The name “South Lakes” is comprised of two words not one as you incorrectly state in the flyer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 07, 2007 10:09AM
SL Mom - you post is interesting, a bit emotional, but interesting.
First, it is not clear to me why parents professing a choice for their existing school is a "sickening" event - they are merely opting to go with what they know, hardly an unusual event, particularly as people are generally resistant to change. Inasmuch as there are parents who do not want to send their children to South Lakes, there is no transitive property in play that makes any sensible person think that South Lakes parents are not "good" parents or don't care for their kids. The fact is that private schools are expensive, are limited in the Fairfax area in terms of choices and supply, and for that reason can often be little more than trading in one set of challenges for another. It is not reasonable to impute any form of "bad' parenting to those that send their children to any local high school - however, that does not make any one institution resistant to criticism.
Second, this is a high income area. People with children move to high income areas by and large to enhance the chances in life for their children. I understand you may be emotional about this, but a statement that your son survived unscathed and with his friends is hardly the kind of aspiration that most people in the area ascribe to, and while I am sure you meant that in one way or another he prospered, the effect of your statement in letting us know he survived serves only to further, not limit, people's fears about SLHS.
Third, I am curious about your reference to the gang problem which you aver existed at South Lakes. You mention that the school has done a good job in enhancing disciplinary enforcement (which I have anecdotally heard is the case). Has this been the primary driver of lessening the "gang" problem? While it strikes me that increased discipline may indeed be helpful, it also strikes me that programs to deal with drop-outs or near drop-outs, which address the kids far more likely to act out (at that point, they feel they nothing to lose) would do more to inhibit gang problems than anything else. South Lakes has by all accords a very competent principal now - although some appear to disagree - and query what he has done in addition to enhancing discipline. It could be possible that the gang related population has moved, but from my extensive trail runs throughout Reston, I don't think that is the case. I mention this only because facts, and more facts, will make transferors comfortable. And again, I think the plea for facts and blunt talk needs to be put into context - by way of example, I think Oakton High School and Oakton parents generally do a poor job when it comes to controlling alcohol and the role that getting drunk plays in the lives of many Oakton teenagers. (I find it particularly appalling that some of their so-called sports stars engage in this behavior - replicating the silly fraternity/sorority lifestyle in advance of college and undermining the discipline that it takes to be a truly competitive athlete). Call me a reactionary all you want, but alcohol and well off kids with cars and the general lack of street sense of most Oakton kids all don't mix well. So I wouldn't be the least bit "sickened" or "offended" if any parent expressed a drinking concern about Oakton. The problem is real, although the degree to which it is real is one that people can disagree on. Likewise, gangs and a meaningful high school educational experience don't either. It would be helpful to know how this problem has been tackled, and to what extent it still exists.
Fourth, although what's past is past, it really does bother me as to why the prior principal was nominated through other than typical processes and that this principal was allowed to stay on for so long. And my criticism is not directed at the parents, but really at the school system, and the School Board, for letting it happen, all in the name of some feel good notions about diversity that have empirically proven to be meaningless when it comes to advancing levels of education. And so it strikes me that rather than being defensive, South Lakes parents should exercise their views at the voting box by voting the guy out who watched over all this mess (and apparently that did not happen), as opposed to rewarding him for his lack of diligence and for his politically opportune plan to transfer in the "right" kind of students (hardly a show of faith in his constituents).
Fifth, and this is just an opinion - people have "compassion" fatigue - especially in Reston, where virtually every form of do goodism has been tried, and with frankly limited success because they don't address the fundamental cultural issues driving the problems. So a plea to diversity, and invoking a sense of moral superiority over those who want things less "diverse" just isn't persuasive any longer. Put another way, people are not going to be easily persuaded by invoking white guilt, and when it comes to our increasing Asian population, they won't be persuaded at all as that group that has historically suffered from discrimination. This is not to say diversity isn't helpful, but its value is way overblown and will not transform a school that isn't doing things right into a positive place to be. This is not to say SLHS isn't on the right track, but merely invoking the shibboleth of diversity isn't going to make the place appear better. Inform us what South Lakes does well - and how it has recovered from some of the problems you mention.
First, it is not clear to me why parents professing a choice for their existing school is a "sickening" event - they are merely opting to go with what they know, hardly an unusual event, particularly as people are generally resistant to change. Inasmuch as there are parents who do not want to send their children to South Lakes, there is no transitive property in play that makes any sensible person think that South Lakes parents are not "good" parents or don't care for their kids. The fact is that private schools are expensive, are limited in the Fairfax area in terms of choices and supply, and for that reason can often be little more than trading in one set of challenges for another. It is not reasonable to impute any form of "bad' parenting to those that send their children to any local high school - however, that does not make any one institution resistant to criticism.
Second, this is a high income area. People with children move to high income areas by and large to enhance the chances in life for their children. I understand you may be emotional about this, but a statement that your son survived unscathed and with his friends is hardly the kind of aspiration that most people in the area ascribe to, and while I am sure you meant that in one way or another he prospered, the effect of your statement in letting us know he survived serves only to further, not limit, people's fears about SLHS.
Third, I am curious about your reference to the gang problem which you aver existed at South Lakes. You mention that the school has done a good job in enhancing disciplinary enforcement (which I have anecdotally heard is the case). Has this been the primary driver of lessening the "gang" problem? While it strikes me that increased discipline may indeed be helpful, it also strikes me that programs to deal with drop-outs or near drop-outs, which address the kids far more likely to act out (at that point, they feel they nothing to lose) would do more to inhibit gang problems than anything else. South Lakes has by all accords a very competent principal now - although some appear to disagree - and query what he has done in addition to enhancing discipline. It could be possible that the gang related population has moved, but from my extensive trail runs throughout Reston, I don't think that is the case. I mention this only because facts, and more facts, will make transferors comfortable. And again, I think the plea for facts and blunt talk needs to be put into context - by way of example, I think Oakton High School and Oakton parents generally do a poor job when it comes to controlling alcohol and the role that getting drunk plays in the lives of many Oakton teenagers. (I find it particularly appalling that some of their so-called sports stars engage in this behavior - replicating the silly fraternity/sorority lifestyle in advance of college and undermining the discipline that it takes to be a truly competitive athlete). Call me a reactionary all you want, but alcohol and well off kids with cars and the general lack of street sense of most Oakton kids all don't mix well. So I wouldn't be the least bit "sickened" or "offended" if any parent expressed a drinking concern about Oakton. The problem is real, although the degree to which it is real is one that people can disagree on. Likewise, gangs and a meaningful high school educational experience don't either. It would be helpful to know how this problem has been tackled, and to what extent it still exists.
Fourth, although what's past is past, it really does bother me as to why the prior principal was nominated through other than typical processes and that this principal was allowed to stay on for so long. And my criticism is not directed at the parents, but really at the school system, and the School Board, for letting it happen, all in the name of some feel good notions about diversity that have empirically proven to be meaningless when it comes to advancing levels of education. And so it strikes me that rather than being defensive, South Lakes parents should exercise their views at the voting box by voting the guy out who watched over all this mess (and apparently that did not happen), as opposed to rewarding him for his lack of diligence and for his politically opportune plan to transfer in the "right" kind of students (hardly a show of faith in his constituents).
Fifth, and this is just an opinion - people have "compassion" fatigue - especially in Reston, where virtually every form of do goodism has been tried, and with frankly limited success because they don't address the fundamental cultural issues driving the problems. So a plea to diversity, and invoking a sense of moral superiority over those who want things less "diverse" just isn't persuasive any longer. Put another way, people are not going to be easily persuaded by invoking white guilt, and when it comes to our increasing Asian population, they won't be persuaded at all as that group that has historically suffered from discrimination. This is not to say diversity isn't helpful, but its value is way overblown and will not transform a school that isn't doing things right into a positive place to be. This is not to say SLHS isn't on the right track, but merely invoking the shibboleth of diversity isn't going to make the place appear better. Inform us what South Lakes does well - and how it has recovered from some of the problems you mention.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 07, 2007 10:51AM
Quantum,
I think we have said all there is to say on this topic. Your patronizing attitude is not appreciated by me or probably not any other SL parent who has gone to the trouble to post our experiences with SL and how well our children have done there, and has tried to establish some common ground with the posters here.
You seem to be asking us to say that South Lakes is indeed unsafe, implying we've all been covering something up. We aren't--this has simply not been our experience.
If you don't hear the disrespect in your own voice and those of others here towards South Lakes people, I don't think there is anything else to say. You just keep repeating the same complaints, untruths, whatever, no matter what we say. Enough.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 10:54AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I think we have said all there is to say on this topic. Your patronizing attitude is not appreciated by me or probably not any other SL parent who has gone to the trouble to post our experiences with SL and how well our children have done there, and has tried to establish some common ground with the posters here.
You seem to be asking us to say that South Lakes is indeed unsafe, implying we've all been covering something up. We aren't--this has simply not been our experience.
If you don't hear the disrespect in your own voice and those of others here towards South Lakes people, I don't think there is anything else to say. You just keep repeating the same complaints, untruths, whatever, no matter what we say. Enough.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 10:54AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 10:51AM
Quantum, I read with interest your post to SL Mom. However, I must point out that while your posts have been generally well written, intelligent, and fair, there have been some 'sickening' posts on this site from those against redistricting, and also some posts containing erroneous and incorrect information. Please don't ask me to go back through this thread and glean some of them, because I don't have the time, but I am sure you have read them and even occasionally been embarrassed by them.
With regards to positive steps that have been taken, I will post some information later, when I have time.
Regarding the'appointment' and retention of an inferior principal, I am glad that you are at least recognizing that the parents were somewhat powerless to address the issue. This was an example of do-goodism at its worst. With regards to the directions that elections take in Reston, you must recognize that while there are many parents of school aged children who did not vote for Stu, there are a lot of constituents in this area who do not have children in the school system, and who do vote for democrats time and again. By virtue of the strong democrat preference in our area, the vote of conservatives like me is watered down. It is a fact I have learned to live with, and the positives of living in Reston have outweighed the negative of being outnumbered time and again.
With the removal of Really Rodriguez from the school, parents like me felt empowered once again. I was very much involved in the choice of Bruce Butler, and despite the negative comments from one disgruntled poster on this site, he has done a remarkable job in a short time in raising expectations not only for students, but most importantly for staff. I will provide more information later when I have time.
As far as gang issues go, my children were in the building from 2002 through 2007, with very few incidents. On one occasion an adult male (not in the school system) entered the building and was apprehended. In another instance, an altercation that started after hours off-site was continued before school started in a cafeteria. In that area, Bruce has been very proactive in identifying at-risk students and either removing them from the school (permanently) at the first infraction, or reaching out positively in an effort to circumvent future bad activity. As much as I disliked the prior principal, she also had been making efforts to engage the community and make them aware of the situation and did not sugar-coat negative incidents. I think these efforts have produced positive results, and though there may be gang activity off-site, during the school day I think that is not an issue.
I would like to point out that a few years ago at least one Herndon student was murdered as a result of drive-by gang activity, yet to my knowledge the Herndon principal did not engage the community in a proactive and public way as has happened in Reston. I have not seen the stopRD folks posting here express concern about gang issues at Herndon, Chantilly, or Westfield. In fact, many posting here have expressed a preference for Herndon, Chantilly and Westfield, despite the fact that the County has reported gang activity at all three schools. So I don't think that the 'gang argument' holds as much weight in this discussion as some would like.
With regards to positive steps that have been taken, I will post some information later, when I have time.
Regarding the'appointment' and retention of an inferior principal, I am glad that you are at least recognizing that the parents were somewhat powerless to address the issue. This was an example of do-goodism at its worst. With regards to the directions that elections take in Reston, you must recognize that while there are many parents of school aged children who did not vote for Stu, there are a lot of constituents in this area who do not have children in the school system, and who do vote for democrats time and again. By virtue of the strong democrat preference in our area, the vote of conservatives like me is watered down. It is a fact I have learned to live with, and the positives of living in Reston have outweighed the negative of being outnumbered time and again.
With the removal of Really Rodriguez from the school, parents like me felt empowered once again. I was very much involved in the choice of Bruce Butler, and despite the negative comments from one disgruntled poster on this site, he has done a remarkable job in a short time in raising expectations not only for students, but most importantly for staff. I will provide more information later when I have time.
As far as gang issues go, my children were in the building from 2002 through 2007, with very few incidents. On one occasion an adult male (not in the school system) entered the building and was apprehended. In another instance, an altercation that started after hours off-site was continued before school started in a cafeteria. In that area, Bruce has been very proactive in identifying at-risk students and either removing them from the school (permanently) at the first infraction, or reaching out positively in an effort to circumvent future bad activity. As much as I disliked the prior principal, she also had been making efforts to engage the community and make them aware of the situation and did not sugar-coat negative incidents. I think these efforts have produced positive results, and though there may be gang activity off-site, during the school day I think that is not an issue.
I would like to point out that a few years ago at least one Herndon student was murdered as a result of drive-by gang activity, yet to my knowledge the Herndon principal did not engage the community in a proactive and public way as has happened in Reston. I have not seen the stopRD folks posting here express concern about gang issues at Herndon, Chantilly, or Westfield. In fact, many posting here have expressed a preference for Herndon, Chantilly and Westfield, despite the fact that the County has reported gang activity at all three schools. So I don't think that the 'gang argument' holds as much weight in this discussion as some would like.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Exodus
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:18AM
Quantum is and always has been a bigoted, pompous windbag. Quantum writes from "authority" but is full of it. Pay him no mind.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CHS Parent
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:34AM
I have personally spoken with the Head of Security for Chantilly High School and he reports that there is NO Gang activity there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:42AM
CHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have personally spoken with the Head of Security
> for Chantilly High School and he reports that
> there is NO Gang activity there.
I won't argue with him and perhaps the situation has improved as it has at South Lakes, but that does not erase the fact that Chantilly was included in past reports on gang activity in FCPS schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have personally spoken with the Head of Security
> for Chantilly High School and he reports that
> there is NO Gang activity there.
I won't argue with him and perhaps the situation has improved as it has at South Lakes, but that does not erase the fact that Chantilly was included in past reports on gang activity in FCPS schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:46AM
SL Verity - let's see the reports.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
resource allocation
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:47AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Regarding the'appointment' and retention of an
> inferior principal, I am glad that you are at
> least recognizing that the parents were somewhat
> powerless to address the issue...
This is a persistent problem throughout FCPS and IMHO after Rodriquez and Lake Anne's Padgett , Gibson will be shifting them out in a more proactive way. His base school revolted and I think he is unwilling to put up with any more HR messes.
> ...directions that elections take in Reston...,
I think people trust Stu to take on other areas of the county when they want to do things that negatively impact facilities and taxes paid by Hunter Mill residents. Odd boundaries predate Stu but are driven by Strauss/Langley to the north. Stu has gotten more expensive housing into South Lakes over the last decade off Baron Cameron. New developments went to Forest Edge. Stu also is the only board member who ever came up with some actual momentum on start times. That was for Madison and a big blockade was TJ.
I think a republican Gary Reese was behind making Westfield so huge. Right now the taxpayers and many magisterial districts might need Stu since many of us hope he will stymy the South County Middle School.
Liz Bradsher got elected as the Springfield rep and the area that won't go to Lake Braddock is most likely the Silverbrook precinct. The at-large votes for school board member there were as follows along with what might be the district/residence/base school :
Braunlich 577 [lee]
Cooper 123 [lee]
Constantino 534 [west springfield]
Hone 518 [providence-jackson/falls church]
Hunt 600 [FX station]
Moon 463 [Robinson]
Raney 323 [providence]
Volksdorf 47 ?
Is there a correlation for the votes in that precinct with the propensity to build a new middle school by 2012 even if it delays other jobs and impacts public moneys/parks/projects? Seeing possibly 2 at large members from Providence as well as the Magisterial board member perhaps FCPS will do more boundary changes and use space at Falls Church. After the West County boundary process, I expect Gibson and Smith to block that SC middle school.
> ...As far as gang issues go, my children were in the
> building from 2002 through 2007, with very few
> incidents...
I've considered pupil placing at South Lakes once the population is up [sports teams need more people - no need to get into a football game without protection]
and I think Gibson should somehow get invlved in the VHSL since the whole thing is peculiar.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Regarding the'appointment' and retention of an
> inferior principal, I am glad that you are at
> least recognizing that the parents were somewhat
> powerless to address the issue...
This is a persistent problem throughout FCPS and IMHO after Rodriquez and Lake Anne's Padgett , Gibson will be shifting them out in a more proactive way. His base school revolted and I think he is unwilling to put up with any more HR messes.
> ...directions that elections take in Reston...,
I think people trust Stu to take on other areas of the county when they want to do things that negatively impact facilities and taxes paid by Hunter Mill residents. Odd boundaries predate Stu but are driven by Strauss/Langley to the north. Stu has gotten more expensive housing into South Lakes over the last decade off Baron Cameron. New developments went to Forest Edge. Stu also is the only board member who ever came up with some actual momentum on start times. That was for Madison and a big blockade was TJ.
I think a republican Gary Reese was behind making Westfield so huge. Right now the taxpayers and many magisterial districts might need Stu since many of us hope he will stymy the South County Middle School.
Liz Bradsher got elected as the Springfield rep and the area that won't go to Lake Braddock is most likely the Silverbrook precinct. The at-large votes for school board member there were as follows along with what might be the district/residence/base school :
Braunlich 577 [lee]
Cooper 123 [lee]
Constantino 534 [west springfield]
Hone 518 [providence-jackson/falls church]
Hunt 600 [FX station]
Moon 463 [Robinson]
Raney 323 [providence]
Volksdorf 47 ?
Is there a correlation for the votes in that precinct with the propensity to build a new middle school by 2012 even if it delays other jobs and impacts public moneys/parks/projects? Seeing possibly 2 at large members from Providence as well as the Magisterial board member perhaps FCPS will do more boundary changes and use space at Falls Church. After the West County boundary process, I expect Gibson and Smith to block that SC middle school.
> ...As far as gang issues go, my children were in the
> building from 2002 through 2007, with very few
> incidents...
I've considered pupil placing at South Lakes once the population is up [sports teams need more people - no need to get into a football game without protection]
and I think Gibson should somehow get invlved in the VHSL since the whole thing is peculiar.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLNMom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:58AM
Thank you for the supportive comments, SLVerity, South Lakes Pyramid Parent and Exodus. In my experience some people will never be able to see past their own viewpoint and will go to lengths to avoid conflicting evidence. It's best to ignore them.
While I can certainly appreciate all parents being concerned for their children, I find the attitude that some express toward South Lakes repugnant, especially as I would venture that not one of them has ever entered the school itself to see what the situation is.
And I can't see how they would think that those of us with children at South Lakes would find their comments less than an insult. One friend said she is "incensed" with the comments because "they make it sound like we're idiots or worse to have children at the school."
Quantum's attitude that we must only have children there because we essentially have no other option is condescending to say the least. Sorry to burst his bubble, but we're not living in subsidized housing, and, in fact, have one of those $5-6k real estate bills that was mentioned in an earlier post. (Perhaps I should mark that as sarcasm, since my point that my son had "survived" which was meant as mild sarcasm, apparently went over some folks' heads).
We moved to Reston because we loved the area and the attitude of the people living here. Reston was very much a "community" at that time and South Lakes was a well-regarded school in the county. Things have changed greatly in the area in the past 30 years and not, I think, for the better. There are more lights, more traffic, more people and a pronounced sense of entitlement from the "haves" (which seems to be a bigger problem to me than many of the others). South Lakes has had its tough years and is emerging from the past three years not only renovated physically, but administratively and in spirit as well. (I'd go so far as to say "rising from the ashes" but it sounds just a little melodramatic).
I'd urge parents with concerns to check out South Lakes personally -- the staff, the students, the parents -- rather than rely on flyers being circulated or forum posts. I believe they'd be pleasantly surprised.
While I can certainly appreciate all parents being concerned for their children, I find the attitude that some express toward South Lakes repugnant, especially as I would venture that not one of them has ever entered the school itself to see what the situation is.
And I can't see how they would think that those of us with children at South Lakes would find their comments less than an insult. One friend said she is "incensed" with the comments because "they make it sound like we're idiots or worse to have children at the school."
Quantum's attitude that we must only have children there because we essentially have no other option is condescending to say the least. Sorry to burst his bubble, but we're not living in subsidized housing, and, in fact, have one of those $5-6k real estate bills that was mentioned in an earlier post. (Perhaps I should mark that as sarcasm, since my point that my son had "survived" which was meant as mild sarcasm, apparently went over some folks' heads).
We moved to Reston because we loved the area and the attitude of the people living here. Reston was very much a "community" at that time and South Lakes was a well-regarded school in the county. Things have changed greatly in the area in the past 30 years and not, I think, for the better. There are more lights, more traffic, more people and a pronounced sense of entitlement from the "haves" (which seems to be a bigger problem to me than many of the others). South Lakes has had its tough years and is emerging from the past three years not only renovated physically, but administratively and in spirit as well. (I'd go so far as to say "rising from the ashes" but it sounds just a little melodramatic).
I'd urge parents with concerns to check out South Lakes personally -- the staff, the students, the parents -- rather than rely on flyers being circulated or forum posts. I believe they'd be pleasantly surprised.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 07, 2007 12:10PM
Thanks,SLNMom, for being a fresh voice. I'm tired.
And thanks too to SLVerity, SL Padre and other SL supporters. I think SL can be a great school with all the new energy.
It's time to move on from negativity.
Now, about that AP....What do South Lakes current and future parents think? Would you like to have the option at SL to have AP instead of or in addition to IB? I think this is worth discussing, bringing up at boundary meetings, and pushing for.
And thanks too to SLVerity, SL Padre and other SL supporters. I think SL can be a great school with all the new energy.
It's time to move on from negativity.
Now, about that AP....What do South Lakes current and future parents think? Would you like to have the option at SL to have AP instead of or in addition to IB? I think this is worth discussing, bringing up at boundary meetings, and pushing for.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 12:29PM
CHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have personally spoken with the Head of Security
> for Chantilly High School and he reports that
> there is NO Gang activity there.
What does the SRO say? The head of security is a school employee who is beholden to the principal and will only tell you what the principal wants you to hear.
The SRO is a police officer beholden to the precinct captain.
I'd invite anyone concern about the security at South Lakes to speak to Lietenant Hill, the acting commanding officer at the Reston Police station.
With children at South Lakes since 1996, I can say I had no reports from any of my 4 children of witnessing or hearing about any gang activity at SL. In that time I think I can recall one cafetria fight. Which is far less, by at least 1 order of magnitude, than I observed in my 4 years in high school in a factory town up north. And I'm no fan of SL, either its present or past prinicipal.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 12:30PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have personally spoken with the Head of Security
> for Chantilly High School and he reports that
> there is NO Gang activity there.
What does the SRO say? The head of security is a school employee who is beholden to the principal and will only tell you what the principal wants you to hear.
The SRO is a police officer beholden to the precinct captain.
I'd invite anyone concern about the security at South Lakes to speak to Lietenant Hill, the acting commanding officer at the Reston Police station.
With children at South Lakes since 1996, I can say I had no reports from any of my 4 children of witnessing or hearing about any gang activity at SL. In that time I think I can recall one cafetria fight. Which is far less, by at least 1 order of magnitude, than I observed in my 4 years in high school in a factory town up north. And I'm no fan of SL, either its present or past prinicipal.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 12:30PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 07, 2007 12:35PM
Exodus - glad you know me so well so as to draw a conclusion.
But really, I am pleased at your response, because rather than address the facts (which SL Verity did very well thank you), you call me names and make other elliptical, non-probative points. Name calling in effect is the most ample form of self admission that both intellectually and substantively one cannot compete. Probably not a good thing when on is trying to persuade others about the efficacy of a school people have doubts about, but if you it think works, keep trying.
By the way, I do think many of the problems South Lakes has experienced are starting to bubble up at Herndon - with many of the so-called better students (I have three nephews and a niece that attended there) just grimacing and bearing it. But inasmuch as Herndon is not the focus of a school transfer, such is life. And the schools are in a tough situation because of the illegal immigration problem - by law they must do their best to educate - and there are lots of teachers out there with the patience of Job doing just that - but really, it is hard to deny that these problems are not draining focus and energy from the academic mission of the bulk of the middle class students in our schools, despite the mantra of treating all students the same.
And SL Verity has one thing exactly right - the democrats here seem to continue to vote in lockstep because they value adherence to their worldview as opposed to pure competence, irrespective of political affiliation. With politics at the local level, sheer competence is more important than ideology, and that is of course why I am perplexed at the prior situation at South Lakes and why the politician at issue is not being held accountable for it.
The 2002 school year was a watermark for me in terms of South Lakes, although my complaint is really anecdotal, so maybe not rational. Back then, South Lakes had their single best African American athlete since Grant Hill, an athlete who was first in the nation in his sport and in my view an Olympic contender could he have enrolled in the right kind of university with the right kind of athletic program. This guy was the best in the nation - no question about it - and yet could not meet NCAA qualifying standards for admission anywhere - which when it comes to his sport - is a death knell because there is just place other than our college system to prosper. That is another subject. Non-athletes or non-aficionados of the sport don't know how good the kid was. Alan Webb was a once a fifty year athlete, and then South Lakes the next year has a once in 20 year athlete? And I was upset at this - yes, at the kid to some degree - but really, at the high school. This was a star athlete - the kind that could really make a difference in terms of the image projected to other kids - and the level of athlete that communities in smaller towns break their backs and expend every last ounce of energy to make NCAA eligible (look at your average SEC football team, and you will see many such athletes, who somehow, some way met the lowly NCAA academic requirements). But South Lakes - set in Reston with all of Reston's unbelievable amenities and social programs - could not get this kid through to meet NCAA requirements. I just could not understand it - and was perplexed at why the school could not see the incredible value that would have obtained had they found somehow, some way to get it done. Now, on a rational level, this is not the basis to judge a school, but if a school set in the middle of "progressive Reston" could not find a way to avoid the impression that it exploits athletes to their educational detriment - what school reasonably should be expected to? And contrary to the name calling, this is hardly condescending, because frankly, it is frustrating - common sense dictates that if the highest profile athlete (a good kid, by the way) was not getting served well, what was happening to the normal kids. Were they doomed by a condescending attitude of low expectations? The declining test scores in certain populations indicates that this was so. I say this with the understanding that there is an impulse to shoot the messenger.
But really, I am pleased at your response, because rather than address the facts (which SL Verity did very well thank you), you call me names and make other elliptical, non-probative points. Name calling in effect is the most ample form of self admission that both intellectually and substantively one cannot compete. Probably not a good thing when on is trying to persuade others about the efficacy of a school people have doubts about, but if you it think works, keep trying.
By the way, I do think many of the problems South Lakes has experienced are starting to bubble up at Herndon - with many of the so-called better students (I have three nephews and a niece that attended there) just grimacing and bearing it. But inasmuch as Herndon is not the focus of a school transfer, such is life. And the schools are in a tough situation because of the illegal immigration problem - by law they must do their best to educate - and there are lots of teachers out there with the patience of Job doing just that - but really, it is hard to deny that these problems are not draining focus and energy from the academic mission of the bulk of the middle class students in our schools, despite the mantra of treating all students the same.
And SL Verity has one thing exactly right - the democrats here seem to continue to vote in lockstep because they value adherence to their worldview as opposed to pure competence, irrespective of political affiliation. With politics at the local level, sheer competence is more important than ideology, and that is of course why I am perplexed at the prior situation at South Lakes and why the politician at issue is not being held accountable for it.
The 2002 school year was a watermark for me in terms of South Lakes, although my complaint is really anecdotal, so maybe not rational. Back then, South Lakes had their single best African American athlete since Grant Hill, an athlete who was first in the nation in his sport and in my view an Olympic contender could he have enrolled in the right kind of university with the right kind of athletic program. This guy was the best in the nation - no question about it - and yet could not meet NCAA qualifying standards for admission anywhere - which when it comes to his sport - is a death knell because there is just place other than our college system to prosper. That is another subject. Non-athletes or non-aficionados of the sport don't know how good the kid was. Alan Webb was a once a fifty year athlete, and then South Lakes the next year has a once in 20 year athlete? And I was upset at this - yes, at the kid to some degree - but really, at the high school. This was a star athlete - the kind that could really make a difference in terms of the image projected to other kids - and the level of athlete that communities in smaller towns break their backs and expend every last ounce of energy to make NCAA eligible (look at your average SEC football team, and you will see many such athletes, who somehow, some way met the lowly NCAA academic requirements). But South Lakes - set in Reston with all of Reston's unbelievable amenities and social programs - could not get this kid through to meet NCAA requirements. I just could not understand it - and was perplexed at why the school could not see the incredible value that would have obtained had they found somehow, some way to get it done. Now, on a rational level, this is not the basis to judge a school, but if a school set in the middle of "progressive Reston" could not find a way to avoid the impression that it exploits athletes to their educational detriment - what school reasonably should be expected to? And contrary to the name calling, this is hardly condescending, because frankly, it is frustrating - common sense dictates that if the highest profile athlete (a good kid, by the way) was not getting served well, what was happening to the normal kids. Were they doomed by a condescending attitude of low expectations? The declining test scores in certain populations indicates that this was so. I say this with the understanding that there is an impulse to shoot the messenger.
Re: high school redistricting - AP/IB comments
Posted by:
SLMom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 12:50PM
On the positive side for IB:
- Courses can be taken individually (not as part of IB diploma track)
- IB credits can be used for college credit/placement (as can AP)
- IB diploma track is well-regarded at many colleges (heard from admissions folks) in that students are well-prepared to "hit the ground running"
- IB courses are demanding. Many of my daughter's classes are using college textbooks (sometimes two or three).
- IB courses stress creativity and complex understanding of the matter. The material is far more rigorous than pre-IB (advanced level) classes. Thinking is encouraged (mild sarcasm again .. sorry!)
On the negative side:
- IB diploma track is *very* demanding. All courses are IB level and that can lead to a *lot* of time on homework (not to mention cross-discipline projects that must be worked on after school). Scheduling all of this with sports is .. challenging! (On the positive side, the time management skill set being learned is a real plus to college-bound kids!)
- No study guides .. the kids actually have to learn for the testing process on their own. For anyone used to picking up study guides, this will be an issue.
- IB program is not as well known as AP .. this leads to perception problems with some people (and the need to explain it in frequently to others).
- I do hear (from posts here) that the IB Math classes aren't as highly counted with colleges as AP higher math classes, but that's not an issue for us as my daughter isn't headed toward math/science majors in college.
- Due to the number of classes (and their difficulty) students who are used to seeing straight A's may not be able to maintain this level. If getting straight A's is a *must* for your student or your family, this could be a problem.
I have no problem with AP classes. Most of my daughter's friends at other schools are taking them. Most are taking 2-4 AP classes a semester and are blown away by the thought of our 7 IB courses (it's a curriculum not just individual classes when in the diploma program).
I've no idea what would be involved in offering both IB and AP programs (or if it's even an option). Since IB coursework is now starting at the middle school level at Hughes, you have quite a number of children feeding into the current program. This doesn't preclude introducing AP as well (or even instead of), however, since the IB diploma track doesn't start until Junior year. You have a relatively small number of students actually in the diploma program at any given time.
- Courses can be taken individually (not as part of IB diploma track)
- IB credits can be used for college credit/placement (as can AP)
- IB diploma track is well-regarded at many colleges (heard from admissions folks) in that students are well-prepared to "hit the ground running"
- IB courses are demanding. Many of my daughter's classes are using college textbooks (sometimes two or three).
- IB courses stress creativity and complex understanding of the matter. The material is far more rigorous than pre-IB (advanced level) classes. Thinking is encouraged (mild sarcasm again .. sorry!)
On the negative side:
- IB diploma track is *very* demanding. All courses are IB level and that can lead to a *lot* of time on homework (not to mention cross-discipline projects that must be worked on after school). Scheduling all of this with sports is .. challenging! (On the positive side, the time management skill set being learned is a real plus to college-bound kids!)
- No study guides .. the kids actually have to learn for the testing process on their own. For anyone used to picking up study guides, this will be an issue.
- IB program is not as well known as AP .. this leads to perception problems with some people (and the need to explain it in frequently to others).
- I do hear (from posts here) that the IB Math classes aren't as highly counted with colleges as AP higher math classes, but that's not an issue for us as my daughter isn't headed toward math/science majors in college.
- Due to the number of classes (and their difficulty) students who are used to seeing straight A's may not be able to maintain this level. If getting straight A's is a *must* for your student or your family, this could be a problem.
I have no problem with AP classes. Most of my daughter's friends at other schools are taking them. Most are taking 2-4 AP classes a semester and are blown away by the thought of our 7 IB courses (it's a curriculum not just individual classes when in the diploma program).
I've no idea what would be involved in offering both IB and AP programs (or if it's even an option). Since IB coursework is now starting at the middle school level at Hughes, you have quite a number of children feeding into the current program. This doesn't preclude introducing AP as well (or even instead of), however, since the IB diploma track doesn't start until Junior year. You have a relatively small number of students actually in the diploma program at any given time.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
MeMyself&I
()
Date: November 07, 2007 12:51PM
Comments:
1) Honesty and truth are so rare. Isn't this about racism? Please stop couching it in less offensive language. Be true to yourself.
2) Every school - every one - has great teachers, good teachers, mediocre teachers, poor teachers. A child can have a good or bad experience at any school. High test scores at particular schools are due to the make up of the student population. Those who have had certain advantages will of course score more highly on the standardized tests. A school with lower test scores can have amazing teachers, full of dedication and creativity, but we may not be aware of them because the students aren't the best and the brightest. These teachers may have made amazing strides with their students, however.
To be very general, think about the amount of progress as measured on a scale of 1 to 10. One school may be praised because its students went from 8 to 9. Then there is the school whose students went from a score of 4 to 8. The first school's scores are higher, but they were starting from a higher place. The second school's scores keep it in second place, but look at how much more progress has been made!
I'm not saying that this applies to any of the particular schools in this discussion thread. But it may, and it seems that a number of people are not being open minded and honest when learning about the different options. They seem to be clinging to stereotypes without having done any truthful investigations. We're talking about schools here - places that should be about inquiry and discovery. All is not known already - our goal should be to have truthful inquiry and to be open to new ideas.
And a little less selfishness might help things, also. We already have enough mean spirited and selfish people in the world. We need more good guys to play for the other side.
3) Proper grammar, spelling, usage is a GOOD thing.
1) Honesty and truth are so rare. Isn't this about racism? Please stop couching it in less offensive language. Be true to yourself.
2) Every school - every one - has great teachers, good teachers, mediocre teachers, poor teachers. A child can have a good or bad experience at any school. High test scores at particular schools are due to the make up of the student population. Those who have had certain advantages will of course score more highly on the standardized tests. A school with lower test scores can have amazing teachers, full of dedication and creativity, but we may not be aware of them because the students aren't the best and the brightest. These teachers may have made amazing strides with their students, however.
To be very general, think about the amount of progress as measured on a scale of 1 to 10. One school may be praised because its students went from 8 to 9. Then there is the school whose students went from a score of 4 to 8. The first school's scores are higher, but they were starting from a higher place. The second school's scores keep it in second place, but look at how much more progress has been made!
I'm not saying that this applies to any of the particular schools in this discussion thread. But it may, and it seems that a number of people are not being open minded and honest when learning about the different options. They seem to be clinging to stereotypes without having done any truthful investigations. We're talking about schools here - places that should be about inquiry and discovery. All is not known already - our goal should be to have truthful inquiry and to be open to new ideas.
And a little less selfishness might help things, also. We already have enough mean spirited and selfish people in the world. We need more good guys to play for the other side.
3) Proper grammar, spelling, usage is a GOOD thing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 01:08PM
Quantum,
I'm not sure I understand your point about Grant Hill. I was not there at the time so I cannot comment, but if you are all about individual determination, then I'm not sure why it was South Lakes' responsibility to prop him up. I don't think you can blame South Lakes for the negative side of the sports culture in America, which does not support academic achievement, period. On the other hand, Alan Webb was accepted to Michigan, which would at least bolster the argument that SL did a good job with one of its middle class students.
Who was the once in 20-year athelete?
I'm not sure I understand your point about Grant Hill. I was not there at the time so I cannot comment, but if you are all about individual determination, then I'm not sure why it was South Lakes' responsibility to prop him up. I don't think you can blame South Lakes for the negative side of the sports culture in America, which does not support academic achievement, period. On the other hand, Alan Webb was accepted to Michigan, which would at least bolster the argument that SL did a good job with one of its middle class students.
Who was the once in 20-year athelete?
Re: high school redistricting - AP/IB comments
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 07, 2007 01:10PM
SLMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the positive side for IB:
> - Courses can be taken individually (not as part
> of IB diploma track)
> - IB credits can be used for college
> credit/placement (as can AP)
> - IB diploma track is well-regarded at many
> colleges (heard from admissions folks) in that
> students are well-prepared to "hit the ground
> running"
> - IB courses are demanding. Many of my daughter's
> classes are using college textbooks (sometimes two
> or three).
> - IB courses stress creativity and complex
> understanding of the matter. The material is far
> more rigorous than pre-IB (advanced level)
> classes. Thinking is encouraged (mild sarcasm
> again .. sorry!)
>
> On the negative side:
> - IB diploma track is *very* demanding. All
> courses are IB level and that can lead to a *lot*
> of time on homework (not to mention
> cross-discipline projects that must be worked on
> after school). Scheduling all of this with sports
> is .. challenging! (On the positive side, the time
> management skill set being learned is a real plus
> to college-bound kids!)
> - No study guides .. the kids actually have to
> learn for the testing process on their own. For
> anyone used to picking up study guides, this will
> be an issue.
> - IB program is not as well known as AP .. this
> leads to perception problems with some people (and
> the need to explain it in frequently to others).
> - I do hear (from posts here) that the IB Math
> classes aren't as highly counted with colleges as
> AP higher math classes, but that's not an issue
> for us as my daughter isn't headed toward
> math/science majors in college.
> - Due to the number of classes (and their
> difficulty) students who are used to seeing
> straight A's may not be able to maintain this
> level. If getting straight A's is a *must* for
> your student or your family, this could be a
> problem.
>
> I have no problem with AP classes. Most of my
> daughter's friends at other schools are taking
> them. Most are taking 2-4 AP classes a semester
> and are blown away by the thought of our 7 IB
> courses (it's a curriculum not just individual
> classes when in the diploma program).
>
> I've no idea what would be involved in offering
> both IB and AP programs (or if it's even an
> option). Since IB coursework is now starting at
> the middle school level at Hughes, you have quite
> a number of children feeding into the current
> program. This doesn't preclude introducing AP as
> well (or even instead of), however, since the IB
> diploma track doesn't start until Junior year. You
> have a relatively small number of students
> actually in the diploma program at any given time.
Good summary.
On IB middle years, the only impact I can see is if your child does not do a language in eighth grade, they cannot do the IB diploma. I don't really see any other impact, and others have posted the same.
In ninth and tenth grade, it is pre-IB in IB schools, and Honors in AP schools. Pre-IB and Honors sound equivalent to me, but don't know this for a fact.
11th and 12th grade is IB in IB schools, and AP in AP schools. Neither AP nor IB has "in between" honors classes at this grade level, from what I have heard--could be wrong.
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the positive side for IB:
> - Courses can be taken individually (not as part
> of IB diploma track)
> - IB credits can be used for college
> credit/placement (as can AP)
> - IB diploma track is well-regarded at many
> colleges (heard from admissions folks) in that
> students are well-prepared to "hit the ground
> running"
> - IB courses are demanding. Many of my daughter's
> classes are using college textbooks (sometimes two
> or three).
> - IB courses stress creativity and complex
> understanding of the matter. The material is far
> more rigorous than pre-IB (advanced level)
> classes. Thinking is encouraged (mild sarcasm
> again .. sorry!)
>
> On the negative side:
> - IB diploma track is *very* demanding. All
> courses are IB level and that can lead to a *lot*
> of time on homework (not to mention
> cross-discipline projects that must be worked on
> after school). Scheduling all of this with sports
> is .. challenging! (On the positive side, the time
> management skill set being learned is a real plus
> to college-bound kids!)
> - No study guides .. the kids actually have to
> learn for the testing process on their own. For
> anyone used to picking up study guides, this will
> be an issue.
> - IB program is not as well known as AP .. this
> leads to perception problems with some people (and
> the need to explain it in frequently to others).
> - I do hear (from posts here) that the IB Math
> classes aren't as highly counted with colleges as
> AP higher math classes, but that's not an issue
> for us as my daughter isn't headed toward
> math/science majors in college.
> - Due to the number of classes (and their
> difficulty) students who are used to seeing
> straight A's may not be able to maintain this
> level. If getting straight A's is a *must* for
> your student or your family, this could be a
> problem.
>
> I have no problem with AP classes. Most of my
> daughter's friends at other schools are taking
> them. Most are taking 2-4 AP classes a semester
> and are blown away by the thought of our 7 IB
> courses (it's a curriculum not just individual
> classes when in the diploma program).
>
> I've no idea what would be involved in offering
> both IB and AP programs (or if it's even an
> option). Since IB coursework is now starting at
> the middle school level at Hughes, you have quite
> a number of children feeding into the current
> program. This doesn't preclude introducing AP as
> well (or even instead of), however, since the IB
> diploma track doesn't start until Junior year. You
> have a relatively small number of students
> actually in the diploma program at any given time.
Good summary.
On IB middle years, the only impact I can see is if your child does not do a language in eighth grade, they cannot do the IB diploma. I don't really see any other impact, and others have posted the same.
In ninth and tenth grade, it is pre-IB in IB schools, and Honors in AP schools. Pre-IB and Honors sound equivalent to me, but don't know this for a fact.
11th and 12th grade is IB in IB schools, and AP in AP schools. Neither AP nor IB has "in between" honors classes at this grade level, from what I have heard--could be wrong.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Stephen Falken
()
Date: November 07, 2007 01:19PM
MeMyself&I Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be very general, think about the amount of
> progress as measured on a scale of 1 to 10. One
> school may be praised because its students went
> from 8 to 9. Then there is the school whose
> students went from a score of 4 to 8. The first
> school's scores are higher, but they were starting
> from a higher place. The second school's scores
> keep it in second place, but look at how much more
> progress has been made!
I'm not sure of what you're trying to say here. Given your example, I would soundly applaud the teachers at the school that had raised scores so much. And given a choice, I would send my children to the other school that had the even higher score and had shown a history of maintaining and even improving upon the score. Not a knock against the turnaround school, but better is better.
If you were buying a car and the price were the same, would you buy a Honda with a quality score of 9/10, or a Hyundai that had improved its score from 4/10 to 8/10? I might be very interested in what Hyundai had done to turn around quality in their corporation, but I'd still buy the higher quality car, given the choice.
Are you arguing that we should select the product that has improved the most, rather than the higher quality product? Or were you responding to something else in this long thread that I freely admit to not having read in entirety?
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be very general, think about the amount of
> progress as measured on a scale of 1 to 10. One
> school may be praised because its students went
> from 8 to 9. Then there is the school whose
> students went from a score of 4 to 8. The first
> school's scores are higher, but they were starting
> from a higher place. The second school's scores
> keep it in second place, but look at how much more
> progress has been made!
I'm not sure of what you're trying to say here. Given your example, I would soundly applaud the teachers at the school that had raised scores so much. And given a choice, I would send my children to the other school that had the even higher score and had shown a history of maintaining and even improving upon the score. Not a knock against the turnaround school, but better is better.
If you were buying a car and the price were the same, would you buy a Honda with a quality score of 9/10, or a Hyundai that had improved its score from 4/10 to 8/10? I might be very interested in what Hyundai had done to turn around quality in their corporation, but I'd still buy the higher quality car, given the choice.
Are you arguing that we should select the product that has improved the most, rather than the higher quality product? Or were you responding to something else in this long thread that I freely admit to not having read in entirety?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 01:49PM
SLNMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
We had a post earlier saying that folks liked the 2 new Assist. Principals at SL. There was a post that reported enhanced inclusion of grammar and vocabulary in English classes (though this was countered by an IB-English assignment to read an entire book, The Crucible, over a weekend. Sounds like it's still a Lit. class to me).
Can I please ask the proponents of SL and Butler to name specific changes in personnel and policies that would convince the folks at Aldrin, Fox Mill and McNair that they shouldn't oppose coming to SL.
I get it that you feel better with Bruce. Feelings are subjective and can't be quantified as is obvious given our disagreement over Bruce. Disagree with me all you want but I've cited multiple specific events that form the basis for my perspective.
I want to respect your contrary opinion but generalities about evanasent feelings won't persuade the people reading this blog in Fox Mill, McNair or Aldrin who are open to persuasion.
The parents of children, whose school achievements imply gifts of critical thinking, would presumably posses those skills themselves, if gene theory has any meaning.
Let the rest of us read about the war stories, the teachers, coaches and the administrative personnel at SL SINCE BRUCE TOOK OVER that make you believe that things are getting better and will continue to get better.
The case has not yet been made persuasively. Belittling me and trying to shout me down, won't do it. My concrete examples will always leave that nagging doubt behind. An avalanche of positives stories will overwhelm those doubts.
Your PTA leadership should be organizing this. They should have agree on a desired outcome to this process. Unfortunately they don't meet until after the first session.
I'm not taunting you, I'm begging you. You've only got 6 days until the first meeting.
-------------------------------------------------------
We had a post earlier saying that folks liked the 2 new Assist. Principals at SL. There was a post that reported enhanced inclusion of grammar and vocabulary in English classes (though this was countered by an IB-English assignment to read an entire book, The Crucible, over a weekend. Sounds like it's still a Lit. class to me).
Can I please ask the proponents of SL and Butler to name specific changes in personnel and policies that would convince the folks at Aldrin, Fox Mill and McNair that they shouldn't oppose coming to SL.
I get it that you feel better with Bruce. Feelings are subjective and can't be quantified as is obvious given our disagreement over Bruce. Disagree with me all you want but I've cited multiple specific events that form the basis for my perspective.
I want to respect your contrary opinion but generalities about evanasent feelings won't persuade the people reading this blog in Fox Mill, McNair or Aldrin who are open to persuasion.
The parents of children, whose school achievements imply gifts of critical thinking, would presumably posses those skills themselves, if gene theory has any meaning.
Let the rest of us read about the war stories, the teachers, coaches and the administrative personnel at SL SINCE BRUCE TOOK OVER that make you believe that things are getting better and will continue to get better.
The case has not yet been made persuasively. Belittling me and trying to shout me down, won't do it. My concrete examples will always leave that nagging doubt behind. An avalanche of positives stories will overwhelm those doubts.
Your PTA leadership should be organizing this. They should have agree on a desired outcome to this process. Unfortunately they don't meet until after the first session.
I'm not taunting you, I'm begging you. You've only got 6 days until the first meeting.
Re: IB vs. AP
Posted by:
readingYourPosts
()
Date: November 07, 2007 01:54PM
Once you've done your research, think about what matters to your child. For a budding art historian or international relations major, IB may be better than AP. But for a budding math/science major, AP might be better than IB.
-----------
It will take years to implement an AP program at South Lakes.....Let's focus on fighting for it. A school is as good as its students....There will always be figths, bad apples, gangs, teenagers angry at the world, and low lives, but if parents are involved all the way along with the teachers in their kids education, they will thrive no matter what. Enough of the negativism PLEASE, you have lemons...make lemonade. SL parents: don't get so defensive...we are not blind...it is obvious you care about your kids...let's not hope you are in the minority, but perceptions are very hard to erase and it is not your job to convince anyone otherwise. We all know how good of a job your principal is doing. KUDOS to him, and I don't even know the guy!
-----------
It will take years to implement an AP program at South Lakes.....Let's focus on fighting for it. A school is as good as its students....There will always be figths, bad apples, gangs, teenagers angry at the world, and low lives, but if parents are involved all the way along with the teachers in their kids education, they will thrive no matter what. Enough of the negativism PLEASE, you have lemons...make lemonade. SL parents: don't get so defensive...we are not blind...it is obvious you care about your kids...let's not hope you are in the minority, but perceptions are very hard to erase and it is not your job to convince anyone otherwise. We all know how good of a job your principal is doing. KUDOS to him, and I don't even know the guy!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 02:33PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 2002 school year was a watermark for me in
> terms of South Lakes, although my complaint is
> really anecdotal, so maybe not rational. Back
> then, South Lakes had their single best African
> American athlete since Grant Hill, an athlete who
> was first in the nation in his sport and in my
> view an Olympic contender could he have enrolled
> in the right kind of university with the right
> kind of athletic program. This guy was the best
> in the nation - no question about it - and yet
> could not meet NCAA qualifying standards for
> admission anywhere - which when it comes to his
> sport - is a death knell because there is just
> place other than our college system to prosper.
> That is another subject. Non-athletes or
> non-aficionados of the sport don't know how good
> the kid was. Alan Webb was a once a fifty year
> athlete, and then South Lakes the next year has a
> once in 20 year athlete? And I was upset at this
> - yes, at the kid to some degree - but really, at
> the high school. This was a star athlete - the
> kind that could really make a difference in terms
> of the image projected to other kids - and the
> level of athlete that communities in smaller towns
> break their backs and expend every last ounce of
> energy to make NCAA eligible (look at your average
> SEC football team, and you will see many such
> athletes, who somehow, some way met the lowly NCAA
> academic requirements). But South Lakes - set in
> Reston with all of Reston's unbelievable amenities
> and social programs - could not get this kid
> through to meet NCAA requirements. I just could
> not understand it - and was perplexed at why the
> school could not see the incredible value that
> would have obtained had they found somehow, some
> way to get it done. Now, on a rational level,
> this is not the basis to judge a school, but if a
> school set in the middle of "progressive Reston"
> could not find a way to avoid the impression that
> it exploits athletes to their educational
> detriment - what school reasonably should be
> expected to? And contrary to the name calling,
> this is hardly condescending, because frankly, it
> is frustrating - common sense dictates that if the
> highest profile athlete (a good kid, by the way)
> was not getting served well, what was happening to
> the normal kids. Were they doomed by a
> condescending attitude of low expectations? The
> declining test scores in certain populations
> indicates that this was so. I say this with the
> understanding that there is an impulse to shoot
> the messenger.
This was in the height of Railly's Reign and Henthorn's slow motion retirement, so I understand that frustrations but I can't remember the athlete or the coach. Who are we talking about?
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 2002 school year was a watermark for me in
> terms of South Lakes, although my complaint is
> really anecdotal, so maybe not rational. Back
> then, South Lakes had their single best African
> American athlete since Grant Hill, an athlete who
> was first in the nation in his sport and in my
> view an Olympic contender could he have enrolled
> in the right kind of university with the right
> kind of athletic program. This guy was the best
> in the nation - no question about it - and yet
> could not meet NCAA qualifying standards for
> admission anywhere - which when it comes to his
> sport - is a death knell because there is just
> place other than our college system to prosper.
> That is another subject. Non-athletes or
> non-aficionados of the sport don't know how good
> the kid was. Alan Webb was a once a fifty year
> athlete, and then South Lakes the next year has a
> once in 20 year athlete? And I was upset at this
> - yes, at the kid to some degree - but really, at
> the high school. This was a star athlete - the
> kind that could really make a difference in terms
> of the image projected to other kids - and the
> level of athlete that communities in smaller towns
> break their backs and expend every last ounce of
> energy to make NCAA eligible (look at your average
> SEC football team, and you will see many such
> athletes, who somehow, some way met the lowly NCAA
> academic requirements). But South Lakes - set in
> Reston with all of Reston's unbelievable amenities
> and social programs - could not get this kid
> through to meet NCAA requirements. I just could
> not understand it - and was perplexed at why the
> school could not see the incredible value that
> would have obtained had they found somehow, some
> way to get it done. Now, on a rational level,
> this is not the basis to judge a school, but if a
> school set in the middle of "progressive Reston"
> could not find a way to avoid the impression that
> it exploits athletes to their educational
> detriment - what school reasonably should be
> expected to? And contrary to the name calling,
> this is hardly condescending, because frankly, it
> is frustrating - common sense dictates that if the
> highest profile athlete (a good kid, by the way)
> was not getting served well, what was happening to
> the normal kids. Were they doomed by a
> condescending attitude of low expectations? The
> declining test scores in certain populations
> indicates that this was so. I say this with the
> understanding that there is an impulse to shoot
> the messenger.
This was in the height of Railly's Reign and Henthorn's slow motion retirement, so I understand that frustrations but I can't remember the athlete or the coach. Who are we talking about?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dunk
()
Date: November 07, 2007 02:33PM
Thomas More Wrote:
> My concrete examples will always leave that
> nagging doubt behind.
Thomas, below I provide an example of why it is hard to take you seriously and why I and others question your 'concrete' examples:
On page 14
Thomas More Wrote:
>
>My children have taken IB courses and didn't get the test results back in time to >advance place at college. This happens to lots of IB students. I've reviewed the >material myself and discussed them with teachers at South Lakes who have taught >both AP and IB.
Then on page 17
Thomas More Wrote:
>
> I thought I had already written that I had my kids
> not take IB. The reports of late IB test result
> reports come from parents at other FFX IB
> schools.
>
So who are we to believe, page 14 Tom or page 17 Tom? Why should we listen to your anecdotal stories about Bruce Butler when you can't even get the facts straight regarding whether your children did or didn't take IB classes? And please don't go back and try to edit your posts. I have copied them verbatim.
> My concrete examples will always leave that
> nagging doubt behind.
Thomas, below I provide an example of why it is hard to take you seriously and why I and others question your 'concrete' examples:
On page 14
Thomas More Wrote:
>
>My children have taken IB courses and didn't get the test results back in time to >advance place at college. This happens to lots of IB students. I've reviewed the >material myself and discussed them with teachers at South Lakes who have taught >both AP and IB.
Then on page 17
Thomas More Wrote:
>
> I thought I had already written that I had my kids
> not take IB. The reports of late IB test result
> reports come from parents at other FFX IB
> schools.
>
So who are we to believe, page 14 Tom or page 17 Tom? Why should we listen to your anecdotal stories about Bruce Butler when you can't even get the facts straight regarding whether your children did or didn't take IB classes? And please don't go back and try to edit your posts. I have copied them verbatim.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 03:00PM
Dunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> > My concrete examples will always leave that
> > nagging doubt behind.
>
> Thomas, below I provide an example of why it is
> hard to take you seriously and why I and others
> question your 'concrete' examples:
>
> On page 14
> Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> >My children have taken IB courses and didn't get
> the test results back in time to >advance place at
> college. This happens to lots of IB students. I've
> reviewed the >material myself and discussed them
> with teachers at South Lakes who have taught >both
> AP and IB.
>
> Then on page 17
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> >
> > I thought I had already written that I had my
> kids
> > not take IB. The reports of late IB test
> result
> > reports come from parents at other FFX IB
> > schools.
> >
>
> So who are we to believe, page 14 Tom or page 17
> Tom? Why should we listen to your anecdotal
> stories about Bruce Butler when you can't even get
> the facts straight regarding whether your children
> did or didn't take IB classes? And please don't
> go back and try to edit your posts. I have copied
> them verbatim.
Fair comment. the "my children" sentence should have been in quotes since I was quoting a parent at Robinson as the second reference should make clear to a fair person who wasn't trying to persuade by a nit picking attack on the messenger, again.
but I'm asking for positive stories about SL and this posting doesn't have any, again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 03:05PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> > My concrete examples will always leave that
> > nagging doubt behind.
>
> Thomas, below I provide an example of why it is
> hard to take you seriously and why I and others
> question your 'concrete' examples:
>
> On page 14
> Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> >My children have taken IB courses and didn't get
> the test results back in time to >advance place at
> college. This happens to lots of IB students. I've
> reviewed the >material myself and discussed them
> with teachers at South Lakes who have taught >both
> AP and IB.
>
> Then on page 17
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> >
> > I thought I had already written that I had my
> kids
> > not take IB. The reports of late IB test
> result
> > reports come from parents at other FFX IB
> > schools.
> >
>
> So who are we to believe, page 14 Tom or page 17
> Tom? Why should we listen to your anecdotal
> stories about Bruce Butler when you can't even get
> the facts straight regarding whether your children
> did or didn't take IB classes? And please don't
> go back and try to edit your posts. I have copied
> them verbatim.
Fair comment. the "my children" sentence should have been in quotes since I was quoting a parent at Robinson as the second reference should make clear to a fair person who wasn't trying to persuade by a nit picking attack on the messenger, again.
but I'm asking for positive stories about SL and this posting doesn't have any, again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 03:05PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dunk
()
Date: November 07, 2007 03:12PM
Whatever. Nice try, though.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 03:21PM
Dunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever. Nice try, though.
That's the best you've got.
Do you deny that IB test results are sent out in July because the IB web site says so itself.
Do you deny that many, many colleges (including VTech) now do freshman orientation and class registration in June and early July before the IB test results are availible. That's easy to verify, call VTech and others.
That was the substance of the postings which remains unrebutted.
You want annotations for every posting now.
But there's still nothing positive about SL in your postings, Dunk. Can't think of any or haven't got any? Now I am taunting you.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 03:22PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever. Nice try, though.
That's the best you've got.
Do you deny that IB test results are sent out in July because the IB web site says so itself.
Do you deny that many, many colleges (including VTech) now do freshman orientation and class registration in June and early July before the IB test results are availible. That's easy to verify, call VTech and others.
That was the substance of the postings which remains unrebutted.
You want annotations for every posting now.
But there's still nothing positive about SL in your postings, Dunk. Can't think of any or haven't got any? Now I am taunting you.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 03:22PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLMom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 03:29PM
Okay .. since my daughter's been at South Lakes:
1) Two (possibly three, although I'm not sure) Foreign Language teachers have left/been replaced following heavy complaints by students and teachers on their ability to teach the curriculum. The teacher my daughter current has is excellent.
2) One teacher in the Arts Department has also be removed due to inability to teach the class assigned. The class (and higher level course) are now being taught by a great teacher.
3) One entire department's performance for one subject class is being evaluated for change. I'm declining to say which one as this is ongoing, but suffice it to say that the teachers involved have been the focus of intense parent dissatisfaction for the past two years.
My husband is a teacher with the County and has always said that the administration makes all of the difference in the school. Some are more concerned about students and parents, some with politics, and you can tell the difference in the way the school is run and the interactions with families. He's also said that when the administration holds the teachers to a high standard (ability to teach effectively, communication with parents, help for students) the teachers either step up or leave (and although it's rumored that there's no way to get rid of teachers without strong cause, I've seen enough behind-the-scenes stuff to know that teachers can be pretty much forced out if the "fit" isn't right).
The examples I've given are only those that I'm personally familiar with .. I suspect that a good deal more is going on that I'm not aware of as I've noticed the level of turnover the past two years with interest. So far, the only changes I've seen have been positive.
1) Two (possibly three, although I'm not sure) Foreign Language teachers have left/been replaced following heavy complaints by students and teachers on their ability to teach the curriculum. The teacher my daughter current has is excellent.
2) One teacher in the Arts Department has also be removed due to inability to teach the class assigned. The class (and higher level course) are now being taught by a great teacher.
3) One entire department's performance for one subject class is being evaluated for change. I'm declining to say which one as this is ongoing, but suffice it to say that the teachers involved have been the focus of intense parent dissatisfaction for the past two years.
My husband is a teacher with the County and has always said that the administration makes all of the difference in the school. Some are more concerned about students and parents, some with politics, and you can tell the difference in the way the school is run and the interactions with families. He's also said that when the administration holds the teachers to a high standard (ability to teach effectively, communication with parents, help for students) the teachers either step up or leave (and although it's rumored that there's no way to get rid of teachers without strong cause, I've seen enough behind-the-scenes stuff to know that teachers can be pretty much forced out if the "fit" isn't right).
The examples I've given are only those that I'm personally familiar with .. I suspect that a good deal more is going on that I'm not aware of as I've noticed the level of turnover the past two years with interest. So far, the only changes I've seen have been positive.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLParent
()
Date: November 07, 2007 03:31PM
Postive stories about SL....
The SLHS PTSA has met regarding the redistricting and is very active in providing information to the SL parents. They are a great group of parents with strong leadership. I applaud their hard work. I'm sure the same can be said for other schools but you are asking about SL specifically. When I attending the last meeting, they gave a very clear overview of the issue without trying to provide a hidden agenda.
Mr. Butler, in my humble opinion, is a good principal. He is fair, compassionate and very approachable. He is at most sporting events and activities and last year played guitar in a multi-cultural talent show. I have only had good experiences with him (even in tough situations). I know he attends a lot of events because I have 2 VERY active students at SLHS and I see him all the time.
Since becoming the DSA, Ms. Jones has made great improvements. Her first concern is the improvement in the SLHS athletic program. She works well with the Athletic Booster Club which has raised more money in the Fall Season than they raised all last year. The Athletic Boosters have also raised awareness of SL athletes through newspaper articles, websites, and Corporate Sponsorship.
I'm not sure if you were aware of last year's Fight for a Seahawk Campaign. A SL student was diagnosed with cancer and the school raised money to help the family. Ms. Trout, the ADSA, shaved her head into a mohawk because the students met the fundraising goal.
These are only a few stories and I'm sure there are a ton more. This is only what I could think of during my busy work day.
The SLHS PTSA has met regarding the redistricting and is very active in providing information to the SL parents. They are a great group of parents with strong leadership. I applaud their hard work. I'm sure the same can be said for other schools but you are asking about SL specifically. When I attending the last meeting, they gave a very clear overview of the issue without trying to provide a hidden agenda.
Mr. Butler, in my humble opinion, is a good principal. He is fair, compassionate and very approachable. He is at most sporting events and activities and last year played guitar in a multi-cultural talent show. I have only had good experiences with him (even in tough situations). I know he attends a lot of events because I have 2 VERY active students at SLHS and I see him all the time.
Since becoming the DSA, Ms. Jones has made great improvements. Her first concern is the improvement in the SLHS athletic program. She works well with the Athletic Booster Club which has raised more money in the Fall Season than they raised all last year. The Athletic Boosters have also raised awareness of SL athletes through newspaper articles, websites, and Corporate Sponsorship.
I'm not sure if you were aware of last year's Fight for a Seahawk Campaign. A SL student was diagnosed with cancer and the school raised money to help the family. Ms. Trout, the ADSA, shaved her head into a mohawk because the students met the fundraising goal.
These are only a few stories and I'm sure there are a ton more. This is only what I could think of during my busy work day.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 04:00PM
Thanks to SLParent and SLMom for those great examples. Numerous others have been posted here. Some, unfortunately, fall on deaf ears, or ears that choose not to hear, but my hope is that enough parents will get the message that South Lakes is a good school undergoing substantial (dare I say profound) and meaningful positive changes. The parents have been empowered and their voices are being heard daily.
A school is only as good as its students, parents and administrators, and we are lucky in that regard. I should add that the SL PTSA are doing a tremendous job educating, motivating and supporting their membership regarding the boundary studies.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 04:21PM by SLVerity.
A school is only as good as its students, parents and administrators, and we are lucky in that regard. I should add that the SL PTSA are doing a tremendous job educating, motivating and supporting their membership regarding the boundary studies.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 04:21PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 04:10PM
somewhere in Oak Hill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or engage
> in a conversation with your neighbors whose kids
> go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
> We are not talking about the teachers or the
> principal here. It is the extracurricular
> activities some of the student engaged, some of it
> at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> mentioned earlier, each school has good students
> and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> exception.
there is no gang activity at chantilly. My children go to and have gone to chantilly as do all my neighbors children. It is a wonderful school. In the 5 years that I have been active in the school none of my children, my friends children or neighbors children have had any problems or ever mentioned gangs or violence. Just because there are minorities in a school does not automatically imply they are in gangs.
and if you think that the kids who go to TJ, Oakton or PaulVI don't drink or do drugs then you are kidding yourself... maybe you should talk to your kids...
you need to check yourself for racism and snobbery sweetie.... the northern virginia "air of superiority"" seems to have affected your brain.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or engage
> in a conversation with your neighbors whose kids
> go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
> We are not talking about the teachers or the
> principal here. It is the extracurricular
> activities some of the student engaged, some of it
> at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> mentioned earlier, each school has good students
> and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> exception.
there is no gang activity at chantilly. My children go to and have gone to chantilly as do all my neighbors children. It is a wonderful school. In the 5 years that I have been active in the school none of my children, my friends children or neighbors children have had any problems or ever mentioned gangs or violence. Just because there are minorities in a school does not automatically imply they are in gangs.
and if you think that the kids who go to TJ, Oakton or PaulVI don't drink or do drugs then you are kidding yourself... maybe you should talk to your kids...
you need to check yourself for racism and snobbery sweetie.... the northern virginia "air of superiority"" seems to have affected your brain.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 07, 2007 04:38PM
SL Verity wanted to let you know your document SLHS at a Glance has some factual errors.
The SOL scores looked incorrect. So I checked the county web site link = http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:18:3311824215875689::NO::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
I did not check for other "errors" but given the data below I am sure there are some. I applaud the effort to put the doc together. You discredit yourselves when you fail to use the correct data.
SOL SCORES FOR 2006-2007
SUBJECT / YOUR DOC / # ON COUNTY WEB SITE
------------------------------------------
ENGLISH
Reading / 95 / 93.6
Writing / 94 / 92.9
MATH
Algebra I / 89 / 82.3 *** whopper ***
Algebra II / 83 / 80.6 *** whopper ***
Geometry / 83 / 79.6
SCIENCES
Biology / 85 / 74.1 *** whopper ***
Chemistry / 73 / 67.5 *** whopper ***
Earth Science / 91 / 87.8
HISTORY
World History I / 90 / 82.9 *** whopper ***
World History II / 86 / 84.3
US/VA History / 93 / 92,9
I am still waiting on the link to the "gang" figures from the county that you like to site.
The SOL scores looked incorrect. So I checked the county web site link = http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:18:3311824215875689::NO::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
I did not check for other "errors" but given the data below I am sure there are some. I applaud the effort to put the doc together. You discredit yourselves when you fail to use the correct data.
SOL SCORES FOR 2006-2007
SUBJECT / YOUR DOC / # ON COUNTY WEB SITE
------------------------------------------
ENGLISH
Reading / 95 / 93.6
Writing / 94 / 92.9
MATH
Algebra I / 89 / 82.3 *** whopper ***
Algebra II / 83 / 80.6 *** whopper ***
Geometry / 83 / 79.6
SCIENCES
Biology / 85 / 74.1 *** whopper ***
Chemistry / 73 / 67.5 *** whopper ***
Earth Science / 91 / 87.8
HISTORY
World History I / 90 / 82.9 *** whopper ***
World History II / 86 / 84.3
US/VA History / 93 / 92,9
I am still waiting on the link to the "gang" figures from the county that you like to site.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLMadre
()
Date: November 07, 2007 04:55PM
So the SL parents have managed to throw enough chum in the water and catch a few suckers. Go ahead and send your kids to SL - they will take you in faster than a two dollar hooker. Oh wait that was Hughes.....
Don't you really want to look at the SAT scores and the pecentage of students that ACTUALLY take them?????
My money won't be going to any Swiss Bank Account so that my children can take classes in culinary arts, or whatever you want to call the IB program.
If SL was soooo good, there wouldn't be 36 pages of mental masturbation.....Fools would be signing up to be pupil placed.
Don't you really want to look at the SAT scores and the pecentage of students that ACTUALLY take them?????
My money won't be going to any Swiss Bank Account so that my children can take classes in culinary arts, or whatever you want to call the IB program.
If SL was soooo good, there wouldn't be 36 pages of mental masturbation.....Fools would be signing up to be pupil placed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:01PM
SLMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So far, the only changes I've
> seen have been positive.
Now this is heading in the right direction. How about some names? Teachers who left that we were happy to see go and why. Teachers who have come, or stayed, and we're happy they stayed and why. Your anonymous on this blog. While others don't, I respect that anonymity enables candor.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So far, the only changes I've
> seen have been positive.
Now this is heading in the right direction. How about some names? Teachers who left that we were happy to see go and why. Teachers who have come, or stayed, and we're happy they stayed and why. Your anonymous on this blog. While others don't, I respect that anonymity enables candor.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:04PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I am still waiting on the link to the "gang"
> figures from the county that you like to site.
I never cited gang figures or said I would cite gang figures, merely said that in the past, gang activity had been identified at Chantilly, Herndon, and Westfield. If you doubt it, I would have to say that perhaps Neen was right in saying that people prefer not to believe that their community schools are less than great.
I think that parents at every school should be aware that gangs exist in Northern Virginia, and that no areas are totally immune.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I am still waiting on the link to the "gang"
> figures from the county that you like to site.
I never cited gang figures or said I would cite gang figures, merely said that in the past, gang activity had been identified at Chantilly, Herndon, and Westfield. If you doubt it, I would have to say that perhaps Neen was right in saying that people prefer not to believe that their community schools are less than great.
I think that parents at every school should be aware that gangs exist in Northern Virginia, and that no areas are totally immune.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:13PM
SLParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Postive stories about SL....
>
> The SLHS PTSA has met regarding the redistricting
> and is very active in providing information to the
> SL parents. They are a great group of parents
> with strong leadership. I applaud their hard
> work.
Come on you can do better. Herndon PTA is way ahead of us with a strategy to achieve a perfered outcome: keeping both Aldrin and Armstrong.
> I'm sure the same can be said for other
> schools but you are asking about SL specifically.
> When I attending the last meeting, they gave a
> very clear overview of the issue without trying to
> provide a hidden agenda.
>
> Mr. Butler, in my humble opinion, is a good
> principal. He is fair, compassionate and very
> approachable. He is at most sporting events and
> activities
and stands under the goals posts schmoozing with Wendall and the other coaches on duty
and last year played guitar in a
> multi-cultural talent show.
That was good, showed some humanity.
> I have only had good
> experiences with him (even in tough situations).
Details, man, details.
> I know he attends a lot of events because I have 2
> VERY active students at SLHS and I see him all the
> time.
Did you talk to him then, what did he say to you or a neighbor, if he's great, tell the story.
> Since becoming the DSA, Ms. Jones has made great
> improvements.
Like what.
We don't a softball coach or a womens lacross coach and it's November
Though I don't agree with you, I'm saying there's not enough of a story here to persuade.
> Her first concern is the
> improvement in the SLHS athletic program.
A dead cat would have been better than Henthorn. Details. Tell a better story.
>
> I'm not sure if you were aware of last year's
> Fight for a Seahawk Campaign. A SL student was
> diagnosed with cancer and the school raised money
> to help the family. Ms. Trout, the ADSA, shaved
> her head into a mohawk because the students met
> the fundraising goal.
this is a good story of student body cohesion and staff support. Sl needs a score more. Who's got one?
> This is only what I could think of during my busy work day.
Next week you'll all need more than this.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Postive stories about SL....
>
> The SLHS PTSA has met regarding the redistricting
> and is very active in providing information to the
> SL parents. They are a great group of parents
> with strong leadership. I applaud their hard
> work.
Come on you can do better. Herndon PTA is way ahead of us with a strategy to achieve a perfered outcome: keeping both Aldrin and Armstrong.
> I'm sure the same can be said for other
> schools but you are asking about SL specifically.
> When I attending the last meeting, they gave a
> very clear overview of the issue without trying to
> provide a hidden agenda.
>
> Mr. Butler, in my humble opinion, is a good
> principal. He is fair, compassionate and very
> approachable. He is at most sporting events and
> activities
and stands under the goals posts schmoozing with Wendall and the other coaches on duty
and last year played guitar in a
> multi-cultural talent show.
That was good, showed some humanity.
> I have only had good
> experiences with him (even in tough situations).
Details, man, details.
> I know he attends a lot of events because I have 2
> VERY active students at SLHS and I see him all the
> time.
Did you talk to him then, what did he say to you or a neighbor, if he's great, tell the story.
> Since becoming the DSA, Ms. Jones has made great
> improvements.
Like what.
We don't a softball coach or a womens lacross coach and it's November
Though I don't agree with you, I'm saying there's not enough of a story here to persuade.
> Her first concern is the
> improvement in the SLHS athletic program.
A dead cat would have been better than Henthorn. Details. Tell a better story.
>
> I'm not sure if you were aware of last year's
> Fight for a Seahawk Campaign. A SL student was
> diagnosed with cancer and the school raised money
> to help the family. Ms. Trout, the ADSA, shaved
> her head into a mohawk because the students met
> the fundraising goal.
this is a good story of student body cohesion and staff support. Sl needs a score more. Who's got one?
> This is only what I could think of during my busy work day.
Next week you'll all need more than this.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:22PM
chantilly mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> somewhere in Oak Hill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or
> engage
> > in a conversation with your neighbors whose
> kids
> > go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> > "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
>
> > We are not talking about the teachers or the
> > principal here. It is the extracurricular
> > activities some of the student engaged, some of
> it
> > at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> > mentioned earlier, each school has good
> students
> > and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> > exception.
>
>
>
> there is no gang activity at chantilly. My
> children go to and have gone to chantilly as do
> all my neighbors children. It is a wonderful
> school. In the 5 years that I have been active in
> the school none of my children, my friends
> children or neighbors children have had any
> problems or ever mentioned gangs or violence. Just
> because there are minorities in a school does not
> automatically imply they are in gangs.
>
> and if you think that the kids who go to TJ,
> Oakton or PaulVI don't drink or do drugs then you
> are kidding yourself... maybe you should talk to
> your kids...
>
> you need to check yourself for racism and snobbery
> sweetie.... the northern virginia "air of
> superiority"" seems to have affected your brain.
So far we're all relying on our kids regarding the existence or non-existence of gang activity at each of our kids school and repeating it to each other. And, while I love all four of mine dearly, I expect they neither know nor would related the whole story.
Has anyone asked their school's SRO?
Based on my discussions with SROs at South Lakes over the last 11 years, the supposed existence of "gang activity" is grossly over blown thanks to Railly. Mostly, a series of groups of 3-4 kids, mostly white, who want to be "gangsta's" and are rapidly brought back in line but ask the SROs yourselves.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 05:28PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> somewhere in Oak Hill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or
> engage
> > in a conversation with your neighbors whose
> kids
> > go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> > "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
>
> > We are not talking about the teachers or the
> > principal here. It is the extracurricular
> > activities some of the student engaged, some of
> it
> > at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> > mentioned earlier, each school has good
> students
> > and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> > exception.
>
>
>
> there is no gang activity at chantilly. My
> children go to and have gone to chantilly as do
> all my neighbors children. It is a wonderful
> school. In the 5 years that I have been active in
> the school none of my children, my friends
> children or neighbors children have had any
> problems or ever mentioned gangs or violence. Just
> because there are minorities in a school does not
> automatically imply they are in gangs.
>
> and if you think that the kids who go to TJ,
> Oakton or PaulVI don't drink or do drugs then you
> are kidding yourself... maybe you should talk to
> your kids...
>
> you need to check yourself for racism and snobbery
> sweetie.... the northern virginia "air of
> superiority"" seems to have affected your brain.
So far we're all relying on our kids regarding the existence or non-existence of gang activity at each of our kids school and repeating it to each other. And, while I love all four of mine dearly, I expect they neither know nor would related the whole story.
Has anyone asked their school's SRO?
Based on my discussions with SROs at South Lakes over the last 11 years, the supposed existence of "gang activity" is grossly over blown thanks to Railly. Mostly, a series of groups of 3-4 kids, mostly white, who want to be "gangsta's" and are rapidly brought back in line but ask the SROs yourselves.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 05:28PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:22PM
SL Verity - got it on the gang thing
Any reply on the fabricated numbers in your At A Glance Doc?
Any reply on the fabricated numbers in your At A Glance Doc?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:22PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity wanted to let you know your document
> SLHS at a Glance has some factual errors.
>
> The SOL scores looked incorrect. So I checked the
> county web site link =
> http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:18
> :3311824215875689::NO::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
>
> I did not check for other "errors" but given the
> data below I am sure there are some. I applaud the
> effort to put the doc together. You discredit
> yourselves when you fail to use the correct data.
>
> SOL SCORES FOR 2006-2007
>
> SUBJECT / YOUR DOC / # ON COUNTY WEB SITE
> ------------------------------------------
> ENGLISH
> Reading / 95 / 93.6
> Writing / 94 / 92.9
> MATH
> Algebra I / 89 / 82.3 *** whopper ***
> Algebra II / 83 / 80.6 *** whopper ***
> Geometry / 83 / 79.6
> SCIENCES
> Biology / 85 / 74.1 *** whopper ***
> Chemistry / 73 / 67.5 *** whopper ***
> Earth Science / 91 / 87.8
> HISTORY
> World History I / 90 / 82.9 *** whopper ***
> World History II / 86 / 84.3
> US/VA History / 93 / 92,9
>
Word, have you confirmed that the school profile you reference is up to date or accurate before denigrating the At-a-Glance sheet? I will pass your comments on to the school, but please consider that perhaps your source may not be correct or up to date. I do know that the county has two sets of numbers for each school and that one includes students who live in the district but don't attend the base school for various reasons. So perhaps you are not looking at an accurate set of numbers.
I'll be sure to get back to you, though, and thank you for your due diligence.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity wanted to let you know your document
> SLHS at a Glance has some factual errors.
>
> The SOL scores looked incorrect. So I checked the
> county web site link =
> http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:18
> :3311824215875689::NO::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
>
> I did not check for other "errors" but given the
> data below I am sure there are some. I applaud the
> effort to put the doc together. You discredit
> yourselves when you fail to use the correct data.
>
> SOL SCORES FOR 2006-2007
>
> SUBJECT / YOUR DOC / # ON COUNTY WEB SITE
> ------------------------------------------
> ENGLISH
> Reading / 95 / 93.6
> Writing / 94 / 92.9
> MATH
> Algebra I / 89 / 82.3 *** whopper ***
> Algebra II / 83 / 80.6 *** whopper ***
> Geometry / 83 / 79.6
> SCIENCES
> Biology / 85 / 74.1 *** whopper ***
> Chemistry / 73 / 67.5 *** whopper ***
> Earth Science / 91 / 87.8
> HISTORY
> World History I / 90 / 82.9 *** whopper ***
> World History II / 86 / 84.3
> US/VA History / 93 / 92,9
>
Word, have you confirmed that the school profile you reference is up to date or accurate before denigrating the At-a-Glance sheet? I will pass your comments on to the school, but please consider that perhaps your source may not be correct or up to date. I do know that the county has two sets of numbers for each school and that one includes students who live in the district but don't attend the base school for various reasons. So perhaps you are not looking at an accurate set of numbers.
I'll be sure to get back to you, though, and thank you for your due diligence.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:23PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity - got it on the gang thing
>
> Any reply on the fabricated numbers in your At A
> Glance Doc?
Boy, I guess seeing plan A crumble before your eyes was difficult to bear.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 05:28PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity - got it on the gang thing
>
> Any reply on the fabricated numbers in your At A
> Glance Doc?
Boy, I guess seeing plan A crumble before your eyes was difficult to bear.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 05:28PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:28PM
My source is Fairfax County Public Schools.
Are you saying the County is posting incorrect numbers and only the South Lakes parents know the truth?
Come on man!
Are you saying the County is posting incorrect numbers and only the South Lakes parents know the truth?
Come on man!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:32PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My source is Fairfax County Public Schools.
>
> Are you saying the County is posting incorrect
> numbers and only the South Lakes parents know the
> truth?
>
> Come on man!
I have heard you state many times (again, I'm paraphrasing here) that FCPS is not always infallible. Now everything they say and all of their websites are up-to-the-minute accurate? I am sure there is a perfectly good explanation for the discrepancy and that we will know soon enough. Don't put on your tin-foil hat or get out your long knives just yet.
Do you really think that we would purposely publish incorrect numbers with number crunchers like you lurking out there to knock them down?
Why do you assume that I am a man?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 05:36PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> My source is Fairfax County Public Schools.
>
> Are you saying the County is posting incorrect
> numbers and only the South Lakes parents know the
> truth?
>
> Come on man!
I have heard you state many times (again, I'm paraphrasing here) that FCPS is not always infallible. Now everything they say and all of their websites are up-to-the-minute accurate? I am sure there is a perfectly good explanation for the discrepancy and that we will know soon enough. Don't put on your tin-foil hat or get out your long knives just yet.
Do you really think that we would purposely publish incorrect numbers with number crunchers like you lurking out there to knock them down?
Why do you assume that I am a man?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 05:36PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:45PM
Word, Mystery solved. The numbers are from the Virginia Department of education, which is the authority:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1310
Sorry to let you know that we aren't cooking the books. Would you like to recant your whopper statements.
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity wanted to let you know your document
> SLHS at a Glance has some factual errors.
>
> The SOL scores looked incorrect. So I checked the
> county web site link =
> http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:18
> :3311824215875689::NO::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
>
> I did not check for other "errors" but given the
> data below I am sure there are some. I applaud the
> effort to put the doc together. You discredit
> yourselves when you fail to use the correct data.
>
> SOL SCORES FOR 2006-2007
>
> SUBJECT / YOUR DOC / # ON COUNTY WEB SITE
> ------------------------------------------
> ENGLISH
> Reading / 95 / 93.6
> Writing / 94 / 92.9
> MATH
> Algebra I / 89 / 82.3 *** whopper ***
> Algebra II / 83 / 80.6 *** whopper ***
> Geometry / 83 / 79.6
> SCIENCES
> Biology / 85 / 74.1 *** whopper ***
> Chemistry / 73 / 67.5 *** whopper ***
> Earth Science / 91 / 87.8
> HISTORY
> World History I / 90 / 82.9 *** whopper ***
> World History II / 86 / 84.3
> US/VA History / 93 / 92,9
>
> I am still waiting on the link to the "gang"
> figures from the county that you like to site.
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=1310
Sorry to let you know that we aren't cooking the books. Would you like to recant your whopper statements.
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity wanted to let you know your document
> SLHS at a Glance has some factual errors.
>
> The SOL scores looked incorrect. So I checked the
> county web site link =
> http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:18
> :3311824215875689::NO::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320
>
> I did not check for other "errors" but given the
> data below I am sure there are some. I applaud the
> effort to put the doc together. You discredit
> yourselves when you fail to use the correct data.
>
> SOL SCORES FOR 2006-2007
>
> SUBJECT / YOUR DOC / # ON COUNTY WEB SITE
> ------------------------------------------
> ENGLISH
> Reading / 95 / 93.6
> Writing / 94 / 92.9
> MATH
> Algebra I / 89 / 82.3 *** whopper ***
> Algebra II / 83 / 80.6 *** whopper ***
> Geometry / 83 / 79.6
> SCIENCES
> Biology / 85 / 74.1 *** whopper ***
> Chemistry / 73 / 67.5 *** whopper ***
> Earth Science / 91 / 87.8
> HISTORY
> World History I / 90 / 82.9 *** whopper ***
> World History II / 86 / 84.3
> US/VA History / 93 / 92,9
>
> I am still waiting on the link to the "gang"
> figures from the county that you like to site.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:51PM
Since everyone is asking for measurable positive information about SL, and since I promised that I would have access to some numbers, I am posting once again this informative fact sheet about South Lakes that highlights the school's mission and some measurable data about the school.
If Word contests the SOL numbers, it is because the school used the official numbers from the VA Department of Education, not the FCPS site.
Please take the time to read it if you are interested.
Attachments:
If Word contests the SOL numbers, it is because the school used the official numbers from the VA Department of Education, not the FCPS site.
Please take the time to read it if you are interested.
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 07, 2007 05:52PM
SLSMom - your defensiveness is astounding as to my comment about sending children to private schools. I could easily send my children to private schools but do not do so because I think it not worth it to spend my hard earned money on the limited private school choices we have here in No. Va. So I do not do so even with the issues I have with the schools. My guess is thousands of other parents here would say the exact same thing. So my attitude is far from condescending, far from making anyone seem poor or helpless or incompetent, and just a fair statement of the reality of the choices we have here in the area. And of course the choices are limited given the relatively recent phenomena of the population boom and emerging infrastructure here. The public schools typically (although not always) are the better imperfect solution. I am aware of some in our area who have the means to do so who send their children to tony private schools in DC or in Maryland - I question the value proposition of doing this but of course support those who want to make that choice if it works for them.
I am also amused at all of the emotional reaction I get - condescending, etc.,which is really just a code word (or so it seems) to supplant intelligent debate on the facts. Really, the name calling self authenticates a unwillingness to stridently debate facts and ideas. The schools are better when they are subject to a competitive marketplace for ideas, and where excellence and a notion that our young people must compete in a global economy is socialized throughout, and merely defending the status quo and calling people names who bring up ideas that make you uncomfortable hardly moves that objective forward. Cheers.
I am also amused at all of the emotional reaction I get - condescending, etc.,which is really just a code word (or so it seems) to supplant intelligent debate on the facts. Really, the name calling self authenticates a unwillingness to stridently debate facts and ideas. The schools are better when they are subject to a competitive marketplace for ideas, and where excellence and a notion that our young people must compete in a global economy is socialized throughout, and merely defending the status quo and calling people names who bring up ideas that make you uncomfortable hardly moves that objective forward. Cheers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 07, 2007 06:03PM
Thomas More - I hate to call any athlete out by name (although his failure to make the NCAA requirements is quite public). But suffice to say he ran 800 meters, had the fastest time in nation that year, holds the Virginia state record, won the high school national championship indoors and out - ran a top 10 all time high school time in the event, had near world class speed in the 400 meters, and is now competing - with unfortunately very limited improvement - not a surprise given how our farm system works - for Nike's Oregon Track Club. I am persuaded he would have been a national champion at Tennessee (where he was recruited), a school with an exemplary record of producing champions in this event and more importantly, getting these kinds of kids through with a degree - often phys ed but not always, that permits them to teach and coach when athletic days are over. A little sleuthing will find the name. And my sense of outrage is genuine. He was not even prepared for junior college (also publicly known), which does lead anyone rational to question what the heck the people at the school were doing. Ok, I concur, completely anecdotal, but really bothersome.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Chantilly
()
Date: November 07, 2007 06:15PM
chantilly mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> somewhere in Oak Hill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or
> engage
> > in a conversation with your neighbors whose
> kids
> > go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> > "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
>
> > We are not talking about the teachers or the
> > principal here. It is the extracurricular
> > activities some of the student engaged, some of
> it
> > at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> > mentioned earlier, each school has good
> students
> > and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> > exception.
>
>
>
> there is no gang activity at chantilly. My
> children go to and have gone to chantilly as do
> all my neighbors children. It is a wonderful
> school. In the 5 years that I have been active in
> the school none of my children, my friends
> children or neighbors children have had any
> problems or ever mentioned gangs or violence. Just
> because there are minorities in a school does not
> automatically imply they are in gangs.
>
> and if you think that the kids who go to TJ,
> Oakton or PaulVI don't drink or do drugs then you
> are kidding yourself... maybe you should talk to
> your kids...
>
>
>
>
> you need to check yourself for racism and snobbery
> sweetie.... the northern virginia "air of
> superiority"" seems to have affected your brain.
-------------
Sweetie in northern VA
I don't know which PLANET you come from.....my kids also go to CHANTILLY...and we don't live in UTOPIA....just because your kids are not involved and don't want to be involved (good for you!)...doesn't mean gang activity doesn't exist...
Again, talk to your kids....I DO talk to mine.
-------------------------------------------------------
> somewhere in Oak Hill Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps you should talk to your kids....or
> engage
> > in a conversation with your neighbors whose
> kids
> > go to Chantilly. You would be amazed at the
> > "information" you can get. hint: gang activity.
>
> > We are not talking about the teachers or the
> > principal here. It is the extracurricular
> > activities some of the student engaged, some of
> it
> > at the hallways and locker rooms. Like I
> > mentioned earlier, each school has good
> students
> > and some bad apples, and Chantilly is not the
> > exception.
>
>
>
> there is no gang activity at chantilly. My
> children go to and have gone to chantilly as do
> all my neighbors children. It is a wonderful
> school. In the 5 years that I have been active in
> the school none of my children, my friends
> children or neighbors children have had any
> problems or ever mentioned gangs or violence. Just
> because there are minorities in a school does not
> automatically imply they are in gangs.
>
> and if you think that the kids who go to TJ,
> Oakton or PaulVI don't drink or do drugs then you
> are kidding yourself... maybe you should talk to
> your kids...
>
>
>
>
> you need to check yourself for racism and snobbery
> sweetie.... the northern virginia "air of
> superiority"" seems to have affected your brain.
-------------
Sweetie in northern VA
I don't know which PLANET you come from.....my kids also go to CHANTILLY...and we don't live in UTOPIA....just because your kids are not involved and don't want to be involved (good for you!)...doesn't mean gang activity doesn't exist...
Again, talk to your kids....I DO talk to mine.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 06:23PM
quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More - I hate to call any athlete out by
> name (although his failure to make the NCAA
> requirements is quite public). But suffice to
> say he ran 800 meters, had the fastest time in
> nation that year, holds the Virginia state record,
> won the high school national championship indoors
> and out - ran a top 10 all time high school time
> in the event, had near world class speed in the
> 400 meters, and is now competing - with
> unfortunately very limited improvement - not a
> surprise given how our farm system works - for
> Nike's Oregon Track Club. I am persuaded he would
> have been a national champion at Tennessee (where
> he was recruited), a school with an exemplary
> record of producing champions in this event and
> more importantly, getting these kinds of kids
> through with a degree - often phys ed but not
> always, that permits them to teach and coach when
> athletic days are over. A little sleuthing will
> find the name. And my sense of outrage is
> genuine. He was not even prepared for junior
> college (also publicly known), which does lead
> anyone rational to question what the heck the
> people at the school were doing. Ok, I concur,
> completely anecdotal, but really bothersome.
Are you talking about Richard Smith?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More - I hate to call any athlete out by
> name (although his failure to make the NCAA
> requirements is quite public). But suffice to
> say he ran 800 meters, had the fastest time in
> nation that year, holds the Virginia state record,
> won the high school national championship indoors
> and out - ran a top 10 all time high school time
> in the event, had near world class speed in the
> 400 meters, and is now competing - with
> unfortunately very limited improvement - not a
> surprise given how our farm system works - for
> Nike's Oregon Track Club. I am persuaded he would
> have been a national champion at Tennessee (where
> he was recruited), a school with an exemplary
> record of producing champions in this event and
> more importantly, getting these kinds of kids
> through with a degree - often phys ed but not
> always, that permits them to teach and coach when
> athletic days are over. A little sleuthing will
> find the name. And my sense of outrage is
> genuine. He was not even prepared for junior
> college (also publicly known), which does lead
> anyone rational to question what the heck the
> people at the school were doing. Ok, I concur,
> completely anecdotal, but really bothersome.
Are you talking about Richard Smith?
Re: high school redistricting - An AP/IB Blend
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 07:27PM
Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, MD is the selective IB magnet in Montgomery County. It does NOT offer SL Math or HL Math. Instead, it offers what it calls "IB Precalc," and those students take the IB SL Math exam. Then they choose between AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC, and if they take Calc BC then they can take post-AP Multivariable Calc.
By allowing precalc students to take the IB SL Math test, Richard Montgomery HS enables them to get an IB Diploma while taking AP math classes.
IB has 6 groups of subjects, which in effect impose distribution requirements. Math are computer science are part of Group 5. To get an IB Diploma, you need to take three Higher Level (HL) and three Standard Level (SL) courses. Taking the SL Math test after precalc means that the student could take 3 HL courses in other subjects, while taking AP Calculus, etc. In fact, a student might even be able to do the same thing with science.
By allowing precalc students to take the IB SL Math test, Richard Montgomery HS enables them to get an IB Diploma while taking AP math classes.
IB has 6 groups of subjects, which in effect impose distribution requirements. Math are computer science are part of Group 5. To get an IB Diploma, you need to take three Higher Level (HL) and three Standard Level (SL) courses. Taking the SL Math test after precalc means that the student could take 3 HL courses in other subjects, while taking AP Calculus, etc. In fact, a student might even be able to do the same thing with science.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hugs and kisses
()
Date: November 07, 2007 07:32PM
you have got to love kathy smith and stu gibson. What would you people do without this issue. middle school and high school folkes relax, the change will be a slow one starting with elementary schools be changed then middle this will allow time for SL to get the programs they need. 7/8 graders are safe to go where they are scheduled to go. this will take affect in 2009 school year.
Re: high school redistricting - AP/IB Sciences
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 07, 2007 08:22PM
In general, colleges treat a 6/7 on an IB HL science test like a 4/5 on an AP science test. For example, at Johns Hopkins University, a 4+ on the AP Chem test is the same as a 6+ on IB HL Chem. At Carnegie Mellon, a 4 in AP Chem is worth the same as a 6 in IB HL Chem, and a 5 in AP Chem is worth the same as a 7 in IB HL Chem. But at Cornell's College of Engineering, a 5 in AP Chem is the same as a 6 or 7 in HL Chem.
Physics is the exception. It appears that IB HL Physics covers about half the normal AP Physics C class. A 7 in HL Physics is usually like a 5 in AP Physics C-Mechanics, but gives no credit towards the AP Physics C-Electricity/Magnetism. A friend who graduated from MIT explained that IB HL Physics also requires only algebra, while AP Physics C definitely requires calculus.
South Lakes parents may want to get AP Physics C (not AP Physics B), in addition to the AP math classes. And in the process, ask about the distribution of recent scores on the IB HL Biology and IB HL Chemistry exams. If there aren't many 6s or 7s, find out why.
Physics is the exception. It appears that IB HL Physics covers about half the normal AP Physics C class. A 7 in HL Physics is usually like a 5 in AP Physics C-Mechanics, but gives no credit towards the AP Physics C-Electricity/Magnetism. A friend who graduated from MIT explained that IB HL Physics also requires only algebra, while AP Physics C definitely requires calculus.
South Lakes parents may want to get AP Physics C (not AP Physics B), in addition to the AP math classes. And in the process, ask about the distribution of recent scores on the IB HL Biology and IB HL Chemistry exams. If there aren't many 6s or 7s, find out why.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 07, 2007 08:42PM
hugs and kisses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> middle school and high school folkes relax, the
> change will be a slow one starting with elementary
> schools be changed then middle this will allow
> time for SL to get the programs they need. 7/8
> graders are safe to go where they are scheduled to
> go. this will take affect in 2009 school year.
And the basis for this little bit of internet valium is what exactly?
-------------------------------------------------------
> middle school and high school folkes relax, the
> change will be a slow one starting with elementary
> schools be changed then middle this will allow
> time for SL to get the programs they need. 7/8
> graders are safe to go where they are scheduled to
> go. this will take affect in 2009 school year.
And the basis for this little bit of internet valium is what exactly?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 07, 2007 09:05PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hugs and kisses Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > middle school and high school folkes relax, the
> > change will be a slow one starting with
> elementary
> > schools be changed then middle this will allow
> > time for SL to get the programs they need. 7/8
> > graders are safe to go where they are scheduled
> to
> > go. this will take affect in 2009 school year.
>
> And the basis for this little bit of internet
> valium is what exactly?
ahhh, but the tranquility works for me!
-------------------------------------------------------
> hugs and kisses Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > middle school and high school folkes relax, the
> > change will be a slow one starting with
> elementary
> > schools be changed then middle this will allow
> > time for SL to get the programs they need. 7/8
> > graders are safe to go where they are scheduled
> to
> > go. this will take affect in 2009 school year.
>
> And the basis for this little bit of internet
> valium is what exactly?
ahhh, but the tranquility works for me!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 07, 2007 09:11PM
Question for SLVerity
What is your best guess as to what transpires from the boundary changes?
I mean what elementaries and/or road boundaries will end up assigned to South Lakes? A most likely scenario and second most likely would be appreciated.
Your posts seem to be well thought out...appreciate your input.
What is your best guess as to what transpires from the boundary changes?
I mean what elementaries and/or road boundaries will end up assigned to South Lakes? A most likely scenario and second most likely would be appreciated.
Your posts seem to be well thought out...appreciate your input.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dunk
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:07PM
Ditto, Cricket.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 11:15PM by Dunk.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 11:15PM by Dunk.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:13PM
PAL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question for SLVerity
>
> What is your best guess as to what transpires from
> the boundary changes?
> I mean what elementaries and/or road boundaries
> will end up assigned to South Lakes? A most likely
> scenario and second most likely would be
> appreciated.
>
> Your posts seem to be well thought
> out...appreciate your input.
Dear PAL, thank you for the compliment. I can't even presume to guess what the outcome will be, although I would bet that McNair will not be moved to South Lakes. Though no doubt there are many great families in the McNair community, it is hard to imagine that the County will want to concentrate so many challenged feeder schools in one high school.
As to best case scenarios, there are others on this site who enjoy and are better at crunching numbers and coming up with scenarios. I know there are many posting here who think that the outcome has already been decided by the powers that be. Call me a Pollyanna, but I am simply not that cynical. Therefore, I look forward to some energetic discussions at the boundary meetings.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question for SLVerity
>
> What is your best guess as to what transpires from
> the boundary changes?
> I mean what elementaries and/or road boundaries
> will end up assigned to South Lakes? A most likely
> scenario and second most likely would be
> appreciated.
>
> Your posts seem to be well thought
> out...appreciate your input.
Dear PAL, thank you for the compliment. I can't even presume to guess what the outcome will be, although I would bet that McNair will not be moved to South Lakes. Though no doubt there are many great families in the McNair community, it is hard to imagine that the County will want to concentrate so many challenged feeder schools in one high school.
As to best case scenarios, there are others on this site who enjoy and are better at crunching numbers and coming up with scenarios. I know there are many posting here who think that the outcome has already been decided by the powers that be. Call me a Pollyanna, but I am simply not that cynical. Therefore, I look forward to some energetic discussions at the boundary meetings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:15PM
That is too funny SL Verity = Dunk! I saw that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dunk
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:17PM
/word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is too funny SL Verity = Dunk! I saw that.
We all have alter egos/mischievious twins. Maybe all three of us can engage at the meeting next Tuesday.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 11:23PM by Dunk.
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is too funny SL Verity = Dunk! I saw that.
We all have alter egos/mischievious twins. Maybe all three of us can engage at the meeting next Tuesday.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2007 11:23PM by Dunk.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:21PM
Thanks for the laugh.
BTW I forwarded a note to VA DOE and FCPS to explain why the numbers are different. I'll let you know what comes back. I'm not interested in being right, I'm interested in the truth.
BTW I forwarded a note to VA DOE and FCPS to explain why the numbers are different. I'll let you know what comes back. I'm not interested in being right, I'm interested in the truth.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 07, 2007 11:29PM
The discrepancy in numbers has come up in meetings before and I think it does have to do with the way that the county reports. I'm not sure why, but I think they include the scores of students who attend other schools (e.g., alternative schools, expulsions) in the base school score. (Erroneously, though, they don't include TJ scores in the base school score). Perhaps the DOE adjusts for those numbers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:21AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it is hard
> to imagine that the County will want to
> concentrate so many challenged feeder schools in
> one high school.
What if it was just the portion of Mcnair now going to Westfield?
> As to best case scenarios, there are others on
> this site who enjoy and are better at crunching
> numbers and coming up with scenarios.
You don't have a preferred outcome?
-------------------------------------------------------
> it is hard
> to imagine that the County will want to
> concentrate so many challenged feeder schools in
> one high school.
What if it was just the portion of Mcnair now going to Westfield?
> As to best case scenarios, there are others on
> this site who enjoy and are better at crunching
> numbers and coming up with scenarios.
You don't have a preferred outcome?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLMom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:14AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now this is heading in the right direction. How about some names?
Anonymous or not, I'm actually not comfortable giving names for teachers who have left .. however I'm glad to give some info on what happened and praise some of the teachers I'm aware of.
One French teacher (known by students as "the crazy French teacher") left .. she had been crying hysterically in her classes and saying that the class was so bad she'd have to "kill" herself. She was replaced for obvious reasons after concerned parents talked to the administration. I haven't heard complaints about the new one (and I haul a car full of kids -- other than just my own -- to various sports practices and events several times weekly, so I hear a lot about the school and their teachers).
A Spanish teacher also left. It was her first year in a high school environment and she seemed to be having a problem coping with teenagers. The kids were so concerned about not being ready for IB Spanish after being in her class that we had to meet with the administration to discuss whether or not they should be tutored over the summer. In any case, she left to join her son's family in warmer climes after the year ended. Ms. Fullerton is teaching most of the IB Spanish students and the word I'm hearing is that she's great .. patient and encouraging .. and that they're learning much more this year than in the past.
An Art teacher left after attempting to teach photography. I'm guessing she's at another school now. Again, the administration was very focused on making this right for the students after conversations with parents. Ms. Saylor is teaching IB Art/Photo and is doing a great job of working with kids on advanced technique .. they're certainly excited about it this year.
I hear much student praise for Mr. Sharp (IB Math) who is dynamic, interesting and uses some new approaches to the material so that the kids can see the "real world" applications of what they're learning.
Ms. Starkey (IB Chem II) is also high on the list for praise. She also works on presenting the curriculum in different ways to help students grasp the more difficult concepts. And I hear that she's very enthusiastic (in a good way)!
The teachers mentioned all are described by the students as enthusiastic, interested (and interesting), and willing to go the step further in order to help students make sense of complicated material. Most have found ways to present the material outside of the usual book presentation, which should be a given for all teachers, but, sadly, isn't.
Incidentally, if you've never checked out RateMyTeachers.com, you should. It's not entirely accurate, of course, but seeing the student ratings and comments for teachers in your (or another) school can be a real eye-opener.
Hope this is what you were looking for, Thomas (and sorry if I disappoint in not naming names of the departed) (grin)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now this is heading in the right direction. How about some names?
Anonymous or not, I'm actually not comfortable giving names for teachers who have left .. however I'm glad to give some info on what happened and praise some of the teachers I'm aware of.
One French teacher (known by students as "the crazy French teacher") left .. she had been crying hysterically in her classes and saying that the class was so bad she'd have to "kill" herself. She was replaced for obvious reasons after concerned parents talked to the administration. I haven't heard complaints about the new one (and I haul a car full of kids -- other than just my own -- to various sports practices and events several times weekly, so I hear a lot about the school and their teachers).
A Spanish teacher also left. It was her first year in a high school environment and she seemed to be having a problem coping with teenagers. The kids were so concerned about not being ready for IB Spanish after being in her class that we had to meet with the administration to discuss whether or not they should be tutored over the summer. In any case, she left to join her son's family in warmer climes after the year ended. Ms. Fullerton is teaching most of the IB Spanish students and the word I'm hearing is that she's great .. patient and encouraging .. and that they're learning much more this year than in the past.
An Art teacher left after attempting to teach photography. I'm guessing she's at another school now. Again, the administration was very focused on making this right for the students after conversations with parents. Ms. Saylor is teaching IB Art/Photo and is doing a great job of working with kids on advanced technique .. they're certainly excited about it this year.
I hear much student praise for Mr. Sharp (IB Math) who is dynamic, interesting and uses some new approaches to the material so that the kids can see the "real world" applications of what they're learning.
Ms. Starkey (IB Chem II) is also high on the list for praise. She also works on presenting the curriculum in different ways to help students grasp the more difficult concepts. And I hear that she's very enthusiastic (in a good way)!
The teachers mentioned all are described by the students as enthusiastic, interested (and interesting), and willing to go the step further in order to help students make sense of complicated material. Most have found ways to present the material outside of the usual book presentation, which should be a given for all teachers, but, sadly, isn't.
Incidentally, if you've never checked out RateMyTeachers.com, you should. It's not entirely accurate, of course, but seeing the student ratings and comments for teachers in your (or another) school can be a real eye-opener.
Hope this is what you were looking for, Thomas (and sorry if I disappoint in not naming names of the departed) (grin)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 08:19AM
THomas, I would say unite Reston, but I am afraid that the traffic conjestion around impending Metro addiitons will serve as an impediment and further split Reston in time. So my ideal then would be Crossfield and Fox Mill to SL:) because they are in the closest proximity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 08:49AM
Likely Scenario...
The county is adressing two main issues overcrowding at Westfield, Chantilly. Open Seats at South Lakes.
To reduce Westfield, McNair will be removed. (It is the furthest area from Westfield and removing Floris would make McNair be a Westfield Island.) This is the only area that is experiencing growth (eg new elem school) - must be addressed.
- (1) Herndon (contiguous border) will pick up McNair west of Centreville Rd and that will set it up to take on the new Coppermine ES opening in two years. Herndon enrollment is going down and they could probably absorb this overtime.
- (2) South Lakes will pick up McNair (contiguous border) east of Centreville Rd. (approx 200-250)
To reduce Chantilly, Navy (part that goes to Chantilly) will be removed.
- Oakton will pickup all of Navy (contiguous border), they only have part of it now. Oakton will also have to up give up Fox Mill to make room for Navy.
- South Lakes will pick up Fox Mill (approx 400-450). Fox Mill will go to SL rather than Crossfield because removing Crossfield would make Fox Mill an "Oakton island".
South Lakes will also pick up the Madison Island which is negligble.
More scenarios later...
The county is adressing two main issues overcrowding at Westfield, Chantilly. Open Seats at South Lakes.
To reduce Westfield, McNair will be removed. (It is the furthest area from Westfield and removing Floris would make McNair be a Westfield Island.) This is the only area that is experiencing growth (eg new elem school) - must be addressed.
- (1) Herndon (contiguous border) will pick up McNair west of Centreville Rd and that will set it up to take on the new Coppermine ES opening in two years. Herndon enrollment is going down and they could probably absorb this overtime.
- (2) South Lakes will pick up McNair (contiguous border) east of Centreville Rd. (approx 200-250)
To reduce Chantilly, Navy (part that goes to Chantilly) will be removed.
- Oakton will pickup all of Navy (contiguous border), they only have part of it now. Oakton will also have to up give up Fox Mill to make room for Navy.
- South Lakes will pick up Fox Mill (approx 400-450). Fox Mill will go to SL rather than Crossfield because removing Crossfield would make Fox Mill an "Oakton island".
South Lakes will also pick up the Madison Island which is negligble.
More scenarios later...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:20AM
SLMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope this is what you were looking for, Thomas
> (and sorry if I disappoint in not naming names of
> the departed) (grin)
Yes thank you
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope this is what you were looking for, Thomas
> (and sorry if I disappoint in not naming names of
> the departed) (grin)
Yes thank you
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:22AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So my ideal then would be
> Crossfield and Fox Mill to SL:) because they are
> in the closest proximity.
That's too many kids. Check the earlier post by Neen giving estimated number of kids contributed to high school from each elementary school
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 09:27AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So my ideal then would be
> Crossfield and Fox Mill to SL:) because they are
> in the closest proximity.
That's too many kids. Check the earlier post by Neen giving estimated number of kids contributed to high school from each elementary school
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 09:27AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:29AM
I think Word's scenario is the most likely, because it takes care of Chantilly and Westfield and South Lakes. I worry about the socioeconomic balance of that solution though. Unlike Thomas, I am not convinced that south of the toll road is all high-income area. It would be nice to know the specific numbers of free lunch coming from that specific place. I asked Stu for these numbers and supposedly he is working on it and will have the numbers in time for the boundary meeting. However, he said that the data is not organized to be able to do this easily.
Like I said, my affordable housing map shows a big cluster south of the toll road, both east and west of Centerville Rd.
Like I said, my affordable housing map shows a big cluster south of the toll road, both east and west of Centerville Rd.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:40AM
>That's too many kids. Check the earlier post by Neen giving estimated number of kids contributed to high school from each elementary school
Acutally I don't think so, considering projected declining enrollment in other areas. Also, I think Neen's figures are wrong.
- there also may be some minor adjustments like .... westfield would take fox mill students west of the county parkway.... westfield may retain a small bit of mcnair as well.
--- bottom line is McNair/Coppermine is the growth area, it's going to be dealt with, it has to go somewhere and the only border schools are westfield, herndon, and southlakes
Acutally I don't think so, considering projected declining enrollment in other areas. Also, I think Neen's figures are wrong.
- there also may be some minor adjustments like .... westfield would take fox mill students west of the county parkway.... westfield may retain a small bit of mcnair as well.
--- bottom line is McNair/Coppermine is the growth area, it's going to be dealt with, it has to go somewhere and the only border schools are westfield, herndon, and southlakes
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:42AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Word's scenario is the most likely,
> because it takes care of Chantilly and Westfield
> and South Lakes. I worry about the socioeconomic
> balance of that solution though. Unlike Thomas, I
> am not convinced that south of the toll road is
> all high-income area. It would be nice to know
> the specific numbers of free lunch coming from
> that specific place. I asked Stu for these
> numbers and supposedly he is working on it and
> will have the numbers in time for the boundary
> meeting. However, he said that the data is not
> organized to be able to do this easily.
>
> Like I said, my affordable housing map shows a big
> cluster south of the toll road, both east and west
> of Centerville Rd.
I have to agree with you and I am certain that it is the case that not all students from that area are middle class. I want to remind everyone that the school board states on their faq sheet that eliminating attendance islands would be preferable, but that may not create the best outcomes for the affected schools.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Word's scenario is the most likely,
> because it takes care of Chantilly and Westfield
> and South Lakes. I worry about the socioeconomic
> balance of that solution though. Unlike Thomas, I
> am not convinced that south of the toll road is
> all high-income area. It would be nice to know
> the specific numbers of free lunch coming from
> that specific place. I asked Stu for these
> numbers and supposedly he is working on it and
> will have the numbers in time for the boundary
> meeting. However, he said that the data is not
> organized to be able to do this easily.
>
> Like I said, my affordable housing map shows a big
> cluster south of the toll road, both east and west
> of Centerville Rd.
I have to agree with you and I am certain that it is the case that not all students from that area are middle class. I want to remind everyone that the school board states on their faq sheet that eliminating attendance islands would be preferable, but that may not create the best outcomes for the affected schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:46AM
Word,
That sounds like too many split feeders. If socioeconomic balance Of Herndon and South Lakes is considered, as it should be, it would probably best for Westfield to retain all of McNair and domino kids to Chantilly, to Oakton, etc, then Fox Mill and more of Crossfield to SL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 09:47AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
That sounds like too many split feeders. If socioeconomic balance Of Herndon and South Lakes is considered, as it should be, it would probably best for Westfield to retain all of McNair and domino kids to Chantilly, to Oakton, etc, then Fox Mill and more of Crossfield to SL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 09:47AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting - An AP/IB Blend
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:49AM
APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, MD is the
> selective IB magnet in Montgomery County. It does
> NOT offer SL Math or HL Math. Instead, it offers
> what it calls "IB Precalc," and those students
> take the IB SL Math exam. Then they choose
> between AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC, and if they
> take Calc BC then they can take post-AP
> Multivariable Calc.
>
> By allowing precalc students to take the IB SL
> Math test, Richard Montgomery HS enables them to
> get an IB Diploma while taking AP math classes.
>
> IB has 6 groups of subjects, which in effect
> impose distribution requirements. Math are
> computer science are part of Group 5. To get an
> IB Diploma, you need to take three Higher Level
> (HL) and three Standard Level (SL) courses.
> Taking the SL Math test after precalc means that
> the student could take 3 HL courses in other
> subjects, while taking AP Calculus, etc. In fact,
> a student might even be able to do the same thing
> with science.
Wow, if SL could offer these options, I'd have no reservations about my kids going there. It sounds like they'd get a great education: the writing of the IB and the upper level math. One of the stated reasons why SL needs more students is to be able to offer more courses. Well, let's hold them to that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, MD is the
> selective IB magnet in Montgomery County. It does
> NOT offer SL Math or HL Math. Instead, it offers
> what it calls "IB Precalc," and those students
> take the IB SL Math exam. Then they choose
> between AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC, and if they
> take Calc BC then they can take post-AP
> Multivariable Calc.
>
> By allowing precalc students to take the IB SL
> Math test, Richard Montgomery HS enables them to
> get an IB Diploma while taking AP math classes.
>
> IB has 6 groups of subjects, which in effect
> impose distribution requirements. Math are
> computer science are part of Group 5. To get an
> IB Diploma, you need to take three Higher Level
> (HL) and three Standard Level (SL) courses.
> Taking the SL Math test after precalc means that
> the student could take 3 HL courses in other
> subjects, while taking AP Calculus, etc. In fact,
> a student might even be able to do the same thing
> with science.
Wow, if SL could offer these options, I'd have no reservations about my kids going there. It sounds like they'd get a great education: the writing of the IB and the upper level math. One of the stated reasons why SL needs more students is to be able to offer more courses. Well, let's hold them to that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 09:58AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word,
> That sounds like too many split feeders. If
> socioeconomic balance Of Herndon and South Lakes
> is considered, as it should be, it would probably
> best for Westfield to retain all of McNair and
> domino kids to Chantilly, to Oakton, etc, then Fox
> Mill and more of Crossfield to SL.
All of McNair doesn't go to Westfield now. The part north of the Toll Road goes to HHS. I'm guessing that the part of McNair north of the Toll Raod has most of the subsidized lunch and ESL students.
The part of McNair south of the Toll Road goes to Westfield and those demographics are very different from the part north of Toll Road.
Fox Mill & Crossfields are too many kids to SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word,
> That sounds like too many split feeders. If
> socioeconomic balance Of Herndon and South Lakes
> is considered, as it should be, it would probably
> best for Westfield to retain all of McNair and
> domino kids to Chantilly, to Oakton, etc, then Fox
> Mill and more of Crossfield to SL.
All of McNair doesn't go to Westfield now. The part north of the Toll Road goes to HHS. I'm guessing that the part of McNair north of the Toll Raod has most of the subsidized lunch and ESL students.
The part of McNair south of the Toll Road goes to Westfield and those demographics are very different from the part north of Toll Road.
Fox Mill & Crossfields are too many kids to SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:05AM
Thomas,
What hard data do you have to support the demographics of south of the toll road? My affordable housing map refutes your arguments, and it's based on something real, not conjecture.
Also, I said Fox Mill and MORE of Crossfield, not all of it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 10:06AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
What hard data do you have to support the demographics of south of the toll road? My affordable housing map refutes your arguments, and it's based on something real, not conjecture.
Also, I said Fox Mill and MORE of Crossfield, not all of it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 10:06AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:05AM
SLPP - actually the split feeder problem for McNair would go away when Coppermine ES opens. The boundary for that is most likely Centreville Rd.
I think what I proposed is most likely because it is provides minimal movement of families, contiguous borders, solves the attendance and growth area problems, and the lion share of what South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill ES.
I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map would look like if you remove Crossfield and Fox Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8 miles from any other part of the attendance area. In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
I think what I proposed is most likely because it is provides minimal movement of families, contiguous borders, solves the attendance and growth area problems, and the lion share of what South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill ES.
I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map would look like if you remove Crossfield and Fox Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8 miles from any other part of the attendance area. In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:15AM
Word,
That's why south of toll road McNair should stay at Westfield. Wouldn't make sense to put it at Oakton. Dominoing Navy into Oakton, with Fox Mill and MORE of Crossfield at SL might eliminate some of the distance problems at Oakton.
I know minimal movement is preferable to many people, but socioeconomic balance is also important to Herndon and SL. If we could establish the mix of McNair students in specific neighborhoods south of the toll road, it would help this debate emmensely.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 10:16AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
That's why south of toll road McNair should stay at Westfield. Wouldn't make sense to put it at Oakton. Dominoing Navy into Oakton, with Fox Mill and MORE of Crossfield at SL might eliminate some of the distance problems at Oakton.
I know minimal movement is preferable to many people, but socioeconomic balance is also important to Herndon and SL. If we could establish the mix of McNair students in specific neighborhoods south of the toll road, it would help this debate emmensely.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 10:16AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:21AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said, my affordable housing map shows a big
> cluster south of the toll road, both east and west
> of Centerville Rd.
That map is wrong! Why is this misinformation being propagated? Check the web sites of the apartment complexes listed on that map. Since when is $57,000 in annual income low income housing?
I have friends who live in that area. Please don't mislabel them and their property with information that has already been shown to be inaccurate. Their townhouse sold for $500,000. Is that low income? Their kids go to Westfield
If someone wrote this way about your neighborhood based on this map without ground truthing it when there obvious problems with the information on the map, you'd be properly outraged.
That map is not reliable. I asked before does it list Stonegate, Sycamore, the Alabama complex in Herndon. It does not. The area north of the Toll Road is the likely source of most of the free lunches at McNair
Get in your car, take a ride, go to the rental office of the complexes and ask them.
Its fine to disagree but at least come up with a rebuttal built on something other than that discredted map.
While you're there, drive around and see the multiple gated townhouses, see the all brick townhouses.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said, my affordable housing map shows a big
> cluster south of the toll road, both east and west
> of Centerville Rd.
That map is wrong! Why is this misinformation being propagated? Check the web sites of the apartment complexes listed on that map. Since when is $57,000 in annual income low income housing?
I have friends who live in that area. Please don't mislabel them and their property with information that has already been shown to be inaccurate. Their townhouse sold for $500,000. Is that low income? Their kids go to Westfield
If someone wrote this way about your neighborhood based on this map without ground truthing it when there obvious problems with the information on the map, you'd be properly outraged.
That map is not reliable. I asked before does it list Stonegate, Sycamore, the Alabama complex in Herndon. It does not. The area north of the Toll Road is the likely source of most of the free lunches at McNair
Get in your car, take a ride, go to the rental office of the complexes and ask them.
Its fine to disagree but at least come up with a rebuttal built on something other than that discredted map.
While you're there, drive around and see the multiple gated townhouses, see the all brick townhouses.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:29AM
SLPP - You are not solving the Westfield problem or the problem of increased growth in the McNair area. They are adding Coppemine Elem. because there is so much growth. This will be addressed in the changes. You have to figure out how to solve the whole problem.
Distance problems at Oakton are a fact of life, created because of the location of the school with Madison and Fairfax less than a mile away. The only way to fix that is to move the school.
Distance problems at Oakton are a fact of life, created because of the location of the school with Madison and Fairfax less than a mile away. The only way to fix that is to move the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:29AM
Thomas,
Who discredited the map? Based on what? Where are you getting the $57000 figure?
The map does have Stonegate Village. Not sure what the official name of the others your mention are?
Who discredited the map? Based on what? Where are you getting the $57000 figure?
The map does have Stonegate Village. Not sure what the official name of the others your mention are?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:30AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What hard data do you have to support the
> demographics of south of the toll road? My
> affordable housing map refutes your arguments, and
> it's based on something real, not conjecture.
I've check the websites of the apartment complexes listed. I've gone to the rental offices. I've driven and walked the neighborhood. Go back in this thread and see an extended number of exchanges trying to understand the physical realities of the neighborhood and the in accuracies of the map.
When someone else has done that I'd be happy to have an exchange with them but please stop with that inaccurate map.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What hard data do you have to support the
> demographics of south of the toll road? My
> affordable housing map refutes your arguments, and
> it's based on something real, not conjecture.
I've check the websites of the apartment complexes listed. I've gone to the rental offices. I've driven and walked the neighborhood. Go back in this thread and see an extended number of exchanges trying to understand the physical realities of the neighborhood and the in accuracies of the map.
When someone else has done that I'd be happy to have an exchange with them but please stop with that inaccurate map.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:39AM
Thomas,
Those apartment complexes are listed on the map as "Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental Units--includes Housing Trust Fund, Low Income Housing Tax Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond, and/or VHDA Bond Financed"
I don't know affordable housing speak, but it sounds to me like these units might be subsidized. Meaning, they are market rate, but people with lower incomes get subsidized to live there.
It may be that the percentage of subsidized units is low, but I don't think we know this for a fact. Please stop posting speculation as fact. Neither of us know the answers to these questions. As I recall, Cricket and other people familiar with the area think there is low-income housing there, and refute your earlier posts.
Those apartment complexes are listed on the map as "Privately Owned Non-Federally Assisted Rental Units--includes Housing Trust Fund, Low Income Housing Tax Credit, FCRHA Tax Exempt Bond, and/or VHDA Bond Financed"
I don't know affordable housing speak, but it sounds to me like these units might be subsidized. Meaning, they are market rate, but people with lower incomes get subsidized to live there.
It may be that the percentage of subsidized units is low, but I don't think we know this for a fact. Please stop posting speculation as fact. Neither of us know the answers to these questions. As I recall, Cricket and other people familiar with the area think there is low-income housing there, and refute your earlier posts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:40AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Who discredited the map? Based on what? Where are
> you getting the $57000 figure?
>
> The map does have Stonegate Village. Not sure
> what the official name of the others your mention
> are?
I asked before if Stonegate was on the map and was told it was not. I was alos told that there weren't any affordable housing shown in Herndon and we all know there is. Someone said the map came from Connolly's office. As described to me it sound like a marketing tool for potential employers to convince them that housing affordability is not a problem. Of course, housing costs are a real problem.
Go to the website of the complexes, see the monthly rent, add $100/mo for utilities, multiply by 12 for the annual housing expense, and divide that figure by .28 which is the target ratio of housing costs to income that landlords use to make sure tenants don't default on rent. Some will go as high as .33 but not if they don't have to. That's the income expected of tenants.
Go to the rental office ask the rental agent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Who discredited the map? Based on what? Where are
> you getting the $57000 figure?
>
> The map does have Stonegate Village. Not sure
> what the official name of the others your mention
> are?
I asked before if Stonegate was on the map and was told it was not. I was alos told that there weren't any affordable housing shown in Herndon and we all know there is. Someone said the map came from Connolly's office. As described to me it sound like a marketing tool for potential employers to convince them that housing affordability is not a problem. Of course, housing costs are a real problem.
Go to the website of the complexes, see the monthly rent, add $100/mo for utilities, multiply by 12 for the annual housing expense, and divide that figure by .28 which is the target ratio of housing costs to income that landlords use to make sure tenants don't default on rent. Some will go as high as .33 but not if they don't have to. That's the income expected of tenants.
Go to the rental office ask the rental agent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:47AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please stop posting speculation as fact.
The speculation is the unsubstantiated claim that the part of McNair south of the Toll Road is a low income area.
They're spreading lies about my friends and their neighborhood recklessly.
After you've gone to web site of the complexes, gone to the rental offices let me know what you find out.
Please stop spreading unsubstantiated misinformation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 10:57AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please stop posting speculation as fact.
The speculation is the unsubstantiated claim that the part of McNair south of the Toll Road is a low income area.
They're spreading lies about my friends and their neighborhood recklessly.
After you've gone to web site of the complexes, gone to the rental offices let me know what you find out.
Please stop spreading unsubstantiated misinformation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 10:57AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:49AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket and other people familiar with the
> area think there is low-income housing there, and
> refute your earlier posts.
Cricket didn't refute anything. She simply demonstrated her ignorance and prejudice against people who don't live in single family detached homes on large lots like her.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket and other people familiar with the
> area think there is low-income housing there, and
> refute your earlier posts.
Cricket didn't refute anything. She simply demonstrated her ignorance and prejudice against people who don't live in single family detached homes on large lots like her.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:55AM
Thomas,
What is the deal? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why your experience and the map say two different things. That's all. I'm not spreading lies--I'm reporting what the map says. How is that a lie?
Why do you get so angry and defensive when someone questions your opinions?
Also, I can't find websites for Jefferson Commons and Dulles Center Apartments. Please post the links to the websites you cite.
What is the deal? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why your experience and the map say two different things. That's all. I'm not spreading lies--I'm reporting what the map says. How is that a lie?
Why do you get so angry and defensive when someone questions your opinions?
Also, I can't find websites for Jefferson Commons and Dulles Center Apartments. Please post the links to the websites you cite.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 10:58AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > Who discredited the map? Based on what? Where
> are
> > you getting the $57000 figure?
> >
> > The map does have Stonegate Village. Not sure
> > what the official name of the others your
> mention
> > are?
>
> I asked before if Stonegate was on the map and was
> told it was not. I was alos told that there
> weren't any affordable housing shown in Herndon
> and we all know there is. Someone said the map
> came from Connolly's office. As described to me
> it sound like a marketing tool for potential
> employers to convince them that housing
> affordability is not a problem. Of course,
> housing costs are a real problem.
>
> Go to the website of the complexes, see the
> monthly rent, add $100/mo for utilities, multiply
> by 12 for the annual housing expense, and divide
> that figure by .28 which is the target ratio of
> housing costs to income that landlords use to make
> sure tenants don't default on rent. Some will go
> as high as .33 but not if they don't have to.
> That's the income expected of tenants.
>
> Go to the rental office ask the rental agent.
Stonegate IS on the map--I never said it wasn't. YOu've obviously not even seen the map, so please don't try to discredit it based on--nothing. You have no idea if there are subsidized units in those complexes. At least I have something to go on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:02AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > Who discredited the map? Based on what? Where
> are
> > you getting the $57000 figure?
> >
> > The map does have Stonegate Village. Not sure
> > what the official name of the others your
> mention
> > are?
>
> I asked before if Stonegate was on the map and was
> told it was not. I was alos told that there
> weren't any affordable housing shown in Herndon
> and we all know there is. Someone said the map
> came from Connolly's office. As described to me
> it sound like a marketing tool for potential
> employers to convince them that housing
> affordability is not a problem. Of course,
> housing costs are a real problem.
>
> Go to the website of the complexes, see the
> monthly rent, add $100/mo for utilities, multiply
> by 12 for the annual housing expense, and divide
> that figure by .28 which is the target ratio of
> housing costs to income that landlords use to make
> sure tenants don't default on rent. Some will go
> as high as .33 but not if they don't have to.
> That's the income expected of tenants.
>
> Go to the rental office ask the rental agent.
Stonegate IS on the map--I never said it wasn't. YOu've obviously not even seen the map, so please don't try to discredit it based on--nothing. You have no idea if there are subsidized units in those complexes. At least I have something to go on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:02AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:04AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What is the deal? I'm just trying to get to the
> bottom of why your experience and the map say two
> different things. That's all. I'm not spreading
> lies--I'm reporting what the map says. How is
> that a lie?
When a generalized claim is refuted with specific facts, the generalized mischaracterization is no longer truth, thus a lie.
> Why do you get so angry and defensive when someone
> questions your opinions?
Because my friends live in that neighborhood. It's not opinion. Its an observation that you can ground truth. And because we've done this before.
> Also, I can't find websites for Jefferson Commons
> and Dulles Center Apartments. Please post the
> links to the websites you cite.
How do you do that? Didn't we have this exchange weeks ago. Go back to those posts.
Please stop using a perjorative term to characterize an entire neighborhood you have not even visited.
Sort of like what you want people to do about SL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:05AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> What is the deal? I'm just trying to get to the
> bottom of why your experience and the map say two
> different things. That's all. I'm not spreading
> lies--I'm reporting what the map says. How is
> that a lie?
When a generalized claim is refuted with specific facts, the generalized mischaracterization is no longer truth, thus a lie.
> Why do you get so angry and defensive when someone
> questions your opinions?
Because my friends live in that neighborhood. It's not opinion. Its an observation that you can ground truth. And because we've done this before.
> Also, I can't find websites for Jefferson Commons
> and Dulles Center Apartments. Please post the
> links to the websites you cite.
How do you do that? Didn't we have this exchange weeks ago. Go back to those posts.
Please stop using a perjorative term to characterize an entire neighborhood you have not even visited.
Sort of like what you want people to do about SL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:05AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:05AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket and other people familiar with the
> > area think there is low-income housing there,
> and
> > refute your earlier posts.
>
> Cricket didn't refute anything. She simply
> demonstrated her ignorance and prejudice against
> people who don't live in single family detached
> homes on large lots like her.
Dont' think so--she thought the neighborhoods looked a little low income. I will take a drive over there. But I don't think that will answer the question of whether there is low income housing there.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket and other people familiar with the
> > area think there is low-income housing there,
> and
> > refute your earlier posts.
>
> Cricket didn't refute anything. She simply
> demonstrated her ignorance and prejudice against
> people who don't live in single family detached
> homes on large lots like her.
Dont' think so--she thought the neighborhoods looked a little low income. I will take a drive over there. But I don't think that will answer the question of whether there is low income housing there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:07AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > What is the deal? I'm just trying to get to
> the
> > bottom of why your experience and the map say
> two
> > different things. That's all. I'm not spreading
> > lies--I'm reporting what the map says. How is
> > that a lie?
>
> When a generalized claim is refuted with specific
> facts, the generalized mischaracterization is no
> longer truth, thus a lie.
>
> > Why do you get so angry and defensive when
> someone
> > questions your opinions?
>
> Because my friends live in that neighborhood.
> It's not opinion. Its an observation that you can
> ground truth. And because we've done this before.
>
>
> > Also, I can't find websites for Jefferson
> Commons
> > and Dulles Center Apartments. Please post the
> > links to the websites you cite.
>
> How do you do that? Didn't we have this exchange
> weeks ago. Go back to those posts.
>
> Please stop using a perjorative term to
> characterize an entire neighborhood you have not
> even visited.
>
> Sort of like what you want people to do about SL.
Do your friends have kids?
Also, you never listed the websites for the apartments.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > What is the deal? I'm just trying to get to
> the
> > bottom of why your experience and the map say
> two
> > different things. That's all. I'm not spreading
> > lies--I'm reporting what the map says. How is
> > that a lie?
>
> When a generalized claim is refuted with specific
> facts, the generalized mischaracterization is no
> longer truth, thus a lie.
>
> > Why do you get so angry and defensive when
> someone
> > questions your opinions?
>
> Because my friends live in that neighborhood.
> It's not opinion. Its an observation that you can
> ground truth. And because we've done this before.
>
>
> > Also, I can't find websites for Jefferson
> Commons
> > and Dulles Center Apartments. Please post the
> > links to the websites you cite.
>
> How do you do that? Didn't we have this exchange
> weeks ago. Go back to those posts.
>
> Please stop using a perjorative term to
> characterize an entire neighborhood you have not
> even visited.
>
> Sort of like what you want people to do about SL.
Do your friends have kids?
Also, you never listed the websites for the apartments.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:22AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont' think so--she thought the neighborhoods
> looked a little low income. I will take a drive
> over there. But I don't think that will answer the
> question of whether there is low income housing
> there.
Make sure you go into the rental offices. Check out Woodland Park and the townhouses on the southside of Fox Mill. Drive down Sunrise past the new ball field and see the gated community there.
Then please drive down Alabama and the neighborhoods east of Elden and south of Herndon Parkway that are also in McNair.
Those two areas are nothing like the area south of the Toll Road.
I think we had an exchange about the ADU 10% program, that's not going to generate 300 subsidized lunches.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont' think so--she thought the neighborhoods
> looked a little low income. I will take a drive
> over there. But I don't think that will answer the
> question of whether there is low income housing
> there.
Make sure you go into the rental offices. Check out Woodland Park and the townhouses on the southside of Fox Mill. Drive down Sunrise past the new ball field and see the gated community there.
Then please drive down Alabama and the neighborhoods east of Elden and south of Herndon Parkway that are also in McNair.
Those two areas are nothing like the area south of the Toll Road.
I think we had an exchange about the ADU 10% program, that's not going to generate 300 subsidized lunches.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:26AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do your friends have kids?
Yes, they go to Westfield and are circulating a petition on their bus asking to go to SL.
> Also, you never listed the websites for the
> apartments.
I asked in the last post "How do you do that". I looked it up that last time we did this weeks ago so its not in my IRL history anymore
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:37AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do your friends have kids?
Yes, they go to Westfield and are circulating a petition on their bus asking to go to SL.
> Also, you never listed the websites for the
> apartments.
I asked in the last post "How do you do that". I looked it up that last time we did this weeks ago so its not in my IRL history anymore
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:37AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:28AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Likely Scenario...
>
> The county is adressing two main issues
> overcrowding at Westfield, Chantilly. Open Seats
> at South Lakes.
>
> To reduce Westfield, McNair will be removed. (It
> is the furthest area from Westfield and removing
> Floris would make McNair be a Westfield Island.)
> This is the only area that is experiencing growth
> (eg new elem school) - must be addressed.
> - (1) Herndon (contiguous border) will pick up
> McNair west of Centreville Rd and that will set it
> up to take on the new Coppermine ES opening in two
> years. Herndon enrollment is going down and they
> could probably absorb this overtime.
> - (2) South Lakes will pick up McNair (contiguous
> border) east of Centreville Rd. (approx 200-250)
>
> To reduce Chantilly, Navy (part that goes to
> Chantilly) will be removed.
> - Oakton will pickup all of Navy (contiguous
> border), they only have part of it now. Oakton
> will also have to up give up Fox Mill to make room
> for Navy.
> - South Lakes will pick up Fox Mill (approx
> 400-450). Fox Mill will go to SL rather than
> Crossfield because removing Crossfield would make
> Fox Mill an "Oakton island".
>
> South Lakes will also pick up the Madison Island
> which is negligble.
>
> More scenarios later...
If you look at the demographics for the next few years, Westfield is shrinking, as it Oakton. I think Chantilly is the only one of those three that will even be at or over capacity by 2012. I'm not sure that removing just those kids from Navy will make that big a dent in the Chantilly population as most of Navy already goes to Oakton anyway. Fox Mill and Crossfield together would probably be close to 800 kids for 4 grades and that is too many. Either way, they will be further splitting Rachel Carson by sending kids from there to South Lakes. If they are true to their philosphy that islands are going to be eliminated, then they will take Fox Mill and the island from Madison.
I also wonder how they will consider those who will just not go. There will be an awful lot of people pupil placing or sending their kids to private schools, at least initially. I hope they don't try to make early assumptions there and send more kids than they really have to send to compensate. Personally, I have kids in both Oakton and Crossfield. My kids at Oakton will not move. They just won't. Three schools in three years (Carson, Oakton South Lakes) is not reasonable for any student. However, if they move us to South Lakes, I will have a few years to see if the school makes the adjustment prior to making a decision about whether I will pupil place my younger kids.
I'm very uncomfortable with all the talk of "socio-economic mixing." Makes me feel like someone is going to be looking at my property values and/or tax returns when deciding whether or not my kids will be shifted from one school to another.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Likely Scenario...
>
> The county is adressing two main issues
> overcrowding at Westfield, Chantilly. Open Seats
> at South Lakes.
>
> To reduce Westfield, McNair will be removed. (It
> is the furthest area from Westfield and removing
> Floris would make McNair be a Westfield Island.)
> This is the only area that is experiencing growth
> (eg new elem school) - must be addressed.
> - (1) Herndon (contiguous border) will pick up
> McNair west of Centreville Rd and that will set it
> up to take on the new Coppermine ES opening in two
> years. Herndon enrollment is going down and they
> could probably absorb this overtime.
> - (2) South Lakes will pick up McNair (contiguous
> border) east of Centreville Rd. (approx 200-250)
>
> To reduce Chantilly, Navy (part that goes to
> Chantilly) will be removed.
> - Oakton will pickup all of Navy (contiguous
> border), they only have part of it now. Oakton
> will also have to up give up Fox Mill to make room
> for Navy.
> - South Lakes will pick up Fox Mill (approx
> 400-450). Fox Mill will go to SL rather than
> Crossfield because removing Crossfield would make
> Fox Mill an "Oakton island".
>
> South Lakes will also pick up the Madison Island
> which is negligble.
>
> More scenarios later...
If you look at the demographics for the next few years, Westfield is shrinking, as it Oakton. I think Chantilly is the only one of those three that will even be at or over capacity by 2012. I'm not sure that removing just those kids from Navy will make that big a dent in the Chantilly population as most of Navy already goes to Oakton anyway. Fox Mill and Crossfield together would probably be close to 800 kids for 4 grades and that is too many. Either way, they will be further splitting Rachel Carson by sending kids from there to South Lakes. If they are true to their philosphy that islands are going to be eliminated, then they will take Fox Mill and the island from Madison.
I also wonder how they will consider those who will just not go. There will be an awful lot of people pupil placing or sending their kids to private schools, at least initially. I hope they don't try to make early assumptions there and send more kids than they really have to send to compensate. Personally, I have kids in both Oakton and Crossfield. My kids at Oakton will not move. They just won't. Three schools in three years (Carson, Oakton South Lakes) is not reasonable for any student. However, if they move us to South Lakes, I will have a few years to see if the school makes the adjustment prior to making a decision about whether I will pupil place my younger kids.
I'm very uncomfortable with all the talk of "socio-economic mixing." Makes me feel like someone is going to be looking at my property values and/or tax returns when deciding whether or not my kids will be shifted from one school to another.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:39AM
hmmm007,
I think the concern is not put too many disadvantaged kids at one school. They probably use free lunch numbers mostly to determine who is disadvantaged.
And I would hope no one who is already in a high school would be moved. I think that will be discussed at the boundary meetings.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:41AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I think the concern is not put too many disadvantaged kids at one school. They probably use free lunch numbers mostly to determine who is disadvantaged.
And I would hope no one who is already in a high school would be moved. I think that will be discussed at the boundary meetings.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 11:41AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:42AM
To quickly add, Westfield has other feeders (besides McNair) that contribute to their socio-economic balance.
Also, there are pockets of affordable housing in the McNair area south of the toll road--amongst the gated townhouse communities. I am sorry that you can't open your eyes to this fact, Mr. More.
However, I, like you, was waiting for Mr. Stu's response before I start rehashing the same insults and denials around on this board.
I, too, have friends that live in McNair and who is to say that I don't live there myself. I am so thrilled, Mr. More, that you really know where I live. Ha-Ha!
You are the one who wants to be informed, before you find your personal fix for your world. I was originally offering areas for you to check into. You either like or don't like what you see. Personally, I don't care. It really doesn't impact my world. I don't know why you are so passionate about it or why you must sling insults. That does so much for you and what you have to say.
You are unwilling to open your eyes to the fact that there is a mix of housing choices in the McNair area. Ok, fine. This does not make me ignorant or prejudice. As I stated earlier on this board, there are numerous apartments, including affordable housing units, condos and trailer parks that feed into the schools my children attend. I am campaigning for them to continue at this school.
It becomes clear who the ignorant and prejudice person is as you clearly and adamantly argue that you will have no part of the McNair crowd north of the Toll Road around Alabama Ave. In fact, I would be happy to send my kids with the Alabama crowd to HHS, if none other, to avoid the one ranting fool you have become!
Also, there are pockets of affordable housing in the McNair area south of the toll road--amongst the gated townhouse communities. I am sorry that you can't open your eyes to this fact, Mr. More.
However, I, like you, was waiting for Mr. Stu's response before I start rehashing the same insults and denials around on this board.
I, too, have friends that live in McNair and who is to say that I don't live there myself. I am so thrilled, Mr. More, that you really know where I live. Ha-Ha!
You are the one who wants to be informed, before you find your personal fix for your world. I was originally offering areas for you to check into. You either like or don't like what you see. Personally, I don't care. It really doesn't impact my world. I don't know why you are so passionate about it or why you must sling insults. That does so much for you and what you have to say.
You are unwilling to open your eyes to the fact that there is a mix of housing choices in the McNair area. Ok, fine. This does not make me ignorant or prejudice. As I stated earlier on this board, there are numerous apartments, including affordable housing units, condos and trailer parks that feed into the schools my children attend. I am campaigning for them to continue at this school.
It becomes clear who the ignorant and prejudice person is as you clearly and adamantly argue that you will have no part of the McNair crowd north of the Toll Road around Alabama Ave. In fact, I would be happy to send my kids with the Alabama crowd to HHS, if none other, to avoid the one ranting fool you have become!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:47AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP - actually the split feeder problem for
> McNair would go away when Coppermine ES opens. The
> boundary for that is most likely Centreville Rd.
>
> I think what I proposed is most likely because it
> is provides minimal movement of families,
> contiguous borders, solves the attendance and
> growth area problems, and the lion share of what
> South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill ES.
>
> I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map
> would look like if you remove Crossfield and Fox
> Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8
> miles from any other part of the attendance area.
> In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
This could be a likely proposal. However, I don't think the Navy part of Chantilly is large enough to fill a void at Oakton caused by a Fox Mill departure.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP - actually the split feeder problem for
> McNair would go away when Coppermine ES opens. The
> boundary for that is most likely Centreville Rd.
>
> I think what I proposed is most likely because it
> is provides minimal movement of families,
> contiguous borders, solves the attendance and
> growth area problems, and the lion share of what
> South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill ES.
>
> I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map
> would look like if you remove Crossfield and Fox
> Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8
> miles from any other part of the attendance area.
> In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
This could be a likely proposal. However, I don't think the Navy part of Chantilly is large enough to fill a void at Oakton caused by a Fox Mill departure.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:52AM
Here is info I found at the wesite for The Fields of Herndon.
Application Fee - $35
Security Deposit - $200-$300
Redecoration Fee - Varies
Lease Length - 12 months
Pet Fees
Income Qualification
**Maximum income limits apply to the rental of these apartment homes - see listing below.
Income Qualifications
Number of Persons/Maximum Income at 50%/Maximum Income at 60%
1/$33,100/$39,720
2/$37,800/$45,360
3/$42,550/$51,060
4/$47,250/$56,700
5/$51,050/$61,260
6/ $54,800 $65,760
To qualify, your income must be less than that in the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
Application Fee - $35
Security Deposit - $200-$300
Redecoration Fee - Varies
Lease Length - 12 months
Pet Fees
Income Qualification
**Maximum income limits apply to the rental of these apartment homes - see listing below.
Income Qualifications
Number of Persons/Maximum Income at 50%/Maximum Income at 60%
1/$33,100/$39,720
2/$37,800/$45,360
3/$42,550/$51,060
4/$47,250/$56,700
5/$51,050/$61,260
6/ $54,800 $65,760
To qualify, your income must be less than that in the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:52AM
Cricket,
I don't think Mr. Stu is going to produce those numbers before the boundary meeting, if at all. He said the data was not organized that way, which may be true.
And really, not to defend Thomas, but SL people ARE concerned about taking on more Title one kids. We've already got the highest percentage of disadvantaged of the schools in this study.
If you could provide more concrete information on low-income housing, it would be greatly appreciated.
I don't think Mr. Stu is going to produce those numbers before the boundary meeting, if at all. He said the data was not organized that way, which may be true.
And really, not to defend Thomas, but SL people ARE concerned about taking on more Title one kids. We've already got the highest percentage of disadvantaged of the schools in this study.
If you could provide more concrete information on low-income housing, it would be greatly appreciated.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 11:54AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is info I found at the wesite for The Fields
> of Herndon.
>
> Application Fee - $35
> Security Deposit - $200-$300
> Redecoration Fee - Varies
> Lease Length - 12 months
> Pet Fees
>
> Income Qualification
> **Maximum income limits apply to the rental of
> these apartment homes - see listing below.
>
> Income Qualifications
> Number of Persons/Maximum Income at 50%/Maximum
> Income at 60%
>
> 1/$33,100/$39,720
> 2/$37,800/$45,360
> 3/$42,550/$51,060
> 4/$47,250/$56,700
> 5/$51,050/$61,260
> 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> To qualify, your income must be less than that in
> the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is info I found at the wesite for The Fields
> of Herndon.
>
> Application Fee - $35
> Security Deposit - $200-$300
> Redecoration Fee - Varies
> Lease Length - 12 months
> Pet Fees
>
> Income Qualification
> **Maximum income limits apply to the rental of
> these apartment homes - see listing below.
>
> Income Qualifications
> Number of Persons/Maximum Income at 50%/Maximum
> Income at 60%
>
> 1/$33,100/$39,720
> 2/$37,800/$45,360
> 3/$42,550/$51,060
> 4/$47,250/$56,700
> 5/$51,050/$61,260
> 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> To qualify, your income must be less than that in
> the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
Thanks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:00PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, there are pockets of affordable housing in
> the McNair area south of the toll road--amongst
> the gated townhouse communities.
And you've identified none.
> However, I, like you, was waiting for Mr. Stu's
> response before I start rehashing the same insults
> and denials around on this board.
>
> I, too, have friends that live in McNair and who
> is to say that I don't live there myself. I am so
> thrilled, Mr. More, that you really know where I
> live. Ha-Ha!
Well, do you?
> You are the one who wants to be informed, before
> you find your personal fix for your world. I was
> originally offering areas for you to check into.
> You either like or don't like what you see.
I did and posted what I saw. South of the Toll Road is a general characterization clearly as upper middle class. [Btw, I have been recognized by the courts as an expert in this area of human knowledge]
> Personally, I don't care. It really doesn't
> impact my world.
So you don't live in Mcnair.
> I don't know why you are so
> passionate about it
Because my friends don't live in a low-income area. They paid $500,000 for their house off of Fox Mill. It's not a low-income area and is not a source for large numbers of free lunch kids.
> It becomes clear who the ignorant and prejudice
> person is as you clearly and adamantly argue that
> you will have no part of the McNair crowd north of
> the Toll Road around Alabama Ave.
I live in Reston. We have housing alot like that part Herndon in close proximity. So you're wrong again.
The reason for the distinction is that the portion of McNair north of the Toll Road already goes to HHS and continuing that assignment won't change the demo of HHS. Adding the portion of McNair south of the Toll Road would probably raise the demo of HHS.
Awaiting facts from Stu
> In fact, I
> would be happy to send my kids with the Alabama
> crowd to HHS, if none other, to avoid the one
> ranting fool you have become!
Move to Herndon, there are plenty of nice houses and neighborhoods there.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, there are pockets of affordable housing in
> the McNair area south of the toll road--amongst
> the gated townhouse communities.
And you've identified none.
> However, I, like you, was waiting for Mr. Stu's
> response before I start rehashing the same insults
> and denials around on this board.
>
> I, too, have friends that live in McNair and who
> is to say that I don't live there myself. I am so
> thrilled, Mr. More, that you really know where I
> live. Ha-Ha!
Well, do you?
> You are the one who wants to be informed, before
> you find your personal fix for your world. I was
> originally offering areas for you to check into.
> You either like or don't like what you see.
I did and posted what I saw. South of the Toll Road is a general characterization clearly as upper middle class. [Btw, I have been recognized by the courts as an expert in this area of human knowledge]
> Personally, I don't care. It really doesn't
> impact my world.
So you don't live in Mcnair.
> I don't know why you are so
> passionate about it
Because my friends don't live in a low-income area. They paid $500,000 for their house off of Fox Mill. It's not a low-income area and is not a source for large numbers of free lunch kids.
> It becomes clear who the ignorant and prejudice
> person is as you clearly and adamantly argue that
> you will have no part of the McNair crowd north of
> the Toll Road around Alabama Ave.
I live in Reston. We have housing alot like that part Herndon in close proximity. So you're wrong again.
The reason for the distinction is that the portion of McNair north of the Toll Road already goes to HHS and continuing that assignment won't change the demo of HHS. Adding the portion of McNair south of the Toll Road would probably raise the demo of HHS.
Awaiting facts from Stu
> In fact, I
> would be happy to send my kids with the Alabama
> crowd to HHS, if none other, to avoid the one
> ranting fool you have become!
Move to Herndon, there are plenty of nice houses and neighborhoods there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:06PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here is info I found at the wesite for The
> Fields
> > of Herndon.
> >
> > Application Fee - $35
> > Security Deposit - $200-$300
> > Redecoration Fee - Varies
> > Lease Length - 12 months
> > Pet Fees
> >
> > Income Qualification
> > **Maximum income limits apply to the rental of
> > these apartment homes - see listing below.
> >
> > Income Qualifications
> > Number of Persons/Maximum Income at 50%/Maximum
> > Income at 60%
> >
> > 1/$33,100/$39,720
> > 2/$37,800/$45,360
> > 3/$42,550/$51,060
> > 4/$47,250/$56,700
> > 5/$51,050/$61,260
> > 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> > To qualify, your income must be less than that
> in
> > the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
Do you characterize this as low-income because it isn't. It's considered moderate income. For comparison look up the starting salary of a teacher, police office or firefighter in FFX?
This is the KSI job immediately around the school.
I certainly hope you're not asserting that this one project accurately characterizes the entire area of McNair south of the Toll Road.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 12:22PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here is info I found at the wesite for The
> Fields
> > of Herndon.
> >
> > Application Fee - $35
> > Security Deposit - $200-$300
> > Redecoration Fee - Varies
> > Lease Length - 12 months
> > Pet Fees
> >
> > Income Qualification
> > **Maximum income limits apply to the rental of
> > these apartment homes - see listing below.
> >
> > Income Qualifications
> > Number of Persons/Maximum Income at 50%/Maximum
> > Income at 60%
> >
> > 1/$33,100/$39,720
> > 2/$37,800/$45,360
> > 3/$42,550/$51,060
> > 4/$47,250/$56,700
> > 5/$51,050/$61,260
> > 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> > To qualify, your income must be less than that
> in
> > the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
Do you characterize this as low-income because it isn't. It's considered moderate income. For comparison look up the starting salary of a teacher, police office or firefighter in FFX?
This is the KSI job immediately around the school.
I certainly hope you're not asserting that this one project accurately characterizes the entire area of McNair south of the Toll Road.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 12:22PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:11PM
I don't know what transpires at the boundary meetings. How can anyone sit down and be unbiased about who goes and who doesn't. I want the plan where my kids stay where they are, I admit I can't overcome this. Does majority win regardless of reasonableness?
What are fair solutions? Should all high schools participate in giving up kids to S.L? DO we all agree that elementary schools stay together as this best defines (community) as Kathy Smith stated was important to leave intact?
Is it in the citizens hands to fulfill the socioeconomic goals in these meetings? WHat to do???
I suggest Aldrin, Fox Mill, Floris to S.L, all contingent to boundary and all high schools give something up.
What are fair solutions? Should all high schools participate in giving up kids to S.L? DO we all agree that elementary schools stay together as this best defines (community) as Kathy Smith stated was important to leave intact?
Is it in the citizens hands to fulfill the socioeconomic goals in these meetings? WHat to do???
I suggest Aldrin, Fox Mill, Floris to S.L, all contingent to boundary and all high schools give something up.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:14PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> I don't think Mr. Stu is going to produce those
> numbers before the boundary meeting, if at all.
> He said the data was not organized that way, which
> may be true.
Only if they are intentionally withholding that information. The parents turn in hard copy applications into McNair, Even if there were 500 such kids, dividing between north and south of the Toll Road would take less than half a day of staff time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 12:18PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> I don't think Mr. Stu is going to produce those
> numbers before the boundary meeting, if at all.
> He said the data was not organized that way, which
> may be true.
Only if they are intentionally withholding that information. The parents turn in hard copy applications into McNair, Even if there were 500 such kids, dividing between north and south of the Toll Road would take less than half a day of staff time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 12:18PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:19PM
The first meeting is like a shrink session, what factors should we consider, what are the rankings of these factors? At meeting 2 they'll drop the bomb... scenarios. At that point they will ask for feedback on them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:40PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP - actually the split feeder problem for
> McNair would go away when Coppermine ES opens. The
> boundary for that is most likely Centreville Rd.
>
> I think what I proposed is most likely because it
> is provides minimal movement of families,
> contiguous borders, solves the attendance and
> growth area problems, and the lion share of what
> South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill ES.
>
> I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map
> would look like if you remove Crossfield and Fox
> Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8
> miles from any other part of the attendance area.
> In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
First of all, thank you for calling Fox Mill ES good.
Compliments aside, most Fox Mill families would rather stay with Oakton, no news there I'm sure. Yes, SL is closer, and there is gallows humor about our kids having a better class rank there. I'll repeat myself: whatever non-free lunch/good test taking kids are sent to SL need to get something out of this. SL gets an infusion of PTA type families--what will the new families get? Do I hear high level math clases? What else do you think is reasonable? I'm interested in the ideas of those who might be moved and those who have been at SL.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP - actually the split feeder problem for
> McNair would go away when Coppermine ES opens. The
> boundary for that is most likely Centreville Rd.
>
> I think what I proposed is most likely because it
> is provides minimal movement of families,
> contiguous borders, solves the attendance and
> growth area problems, and the lion share of what
> South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill ES.
>
> I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map
> would look like if you remove Crossfield and Fox
> Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8
> miles from any other part of the attendance area.
> In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
First of all, thank you for calling Fox Mill ES good.
Compliments aside, most Fox Mill families would rather stay with Oakton, no news there I'm sure. Yes, SL is closer, and there is gallows humor about our kids having a better class rank there. I'll repeat myself: whatever non-free lunch/good test taking kids are sent to SL need to get something out of this. SL gets an infusion of PTA type families--what will the new families get? Do I hear high level math clases? What else do you think is reasonable? I'm interested in the ideas of those who might be moved and those who have been at SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:55PM
Thomas More Wrote:
>
> And you've identified none.
I have.
> Because my friends don't live in a low-income
> area. They paid $500,000 for their house off of
> Fox Mill. It's not a low-income area and is not a
> source for large numbers of free lunch kids.
I sort of wonder how close you are to these friends when back on October 22, 2007 you said this of McNair...
"McNair is the elementary school furthest from Westfield, thus the one most likely to be shifted to either Herndon or SL. Sending it to either makes the socio-economic balance at either worse.
Fun. fun, fun."
And on, October 23, 2007, you said this...
"McNair parents won't be heavily involved thi sprocess. Their PTA is moribund. Look at their web site. So shoving McNair to SL is the course of least resistance."
And on, October 28, 2007 you said...
"Exactly. The Herndon PTA has been agressive, inducing Gibson to promise no redistricting in 2003, while the SL PTA has trusted Gibson, who is about to throw SL under the bus and give it McNair.
More Later"
You can only hope your friends aren't reading this!
And then on October 29, 2007, you responded to Neen, indicating that you had no clue as to who even went to McNair
"Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> district?
No.
Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
More Later"
Continuing....
>
> I live in Reston. We have housing alot like that
> part Herndon in close proximity. So you're wrong
> again.
I am not wrong about the conclusions people will make after reading your digressions on Alabama Ave. The point is we all have these neighborhoods as part of our school communities.
And I don't understand why on one-hand you are proud of this. Yet you get so angry when it is suggested that this type of housing is also in the area near your friends????????????
>
> Awaiting facts from Stu.
Then why don't you wait, instead of dragging this through pages of hot-headed accusations, again?
>
>
> Move to Herndon, there are plenty of nice houses
> and neighborhoods there.
Don't need too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 01:06PM by Cricket.
>
> And you've identified none.
I have.
> Because my friends don't live in a low-income
> area. They paid $500,000 for their house off of
> Fox Mill. It's not a low-income area and is not a
> source for large numbers of free lunch kids.
I sort of wonder how close you are to these friends when back on October 22, 2007 you said this of McNair...
"McNair is the elementary school furthest from Westfield, thus the one most likely to be shifted to either Herndon or SL. Sending it to either makes the socio-economic balance at either worse.
Fun. fun, fun."
And on, October 23, 2007, you said this...
"McNair parents won't be heavily involved thi sprocess. Their PTA is moribund. Look at their web site. So shoving McNair to SL is the course of least resistance."
And on, October 28, 2007 you said...
"Exactly. The Herndon PTA has been agressive, inducing Gibson to promise no redistricting in 2003, while the SL PTA has trusted Gibson, who is about to throw SL under the bus and give it McNair.
More Later"
You can only hope your friends aren't reading this!
And then on October 29, 2007, you responded to Neen, indicating that you had no clue as to who even went to McNair
"Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> district?
No.
Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
More Later"
Continuing....
>
> I live in Reston. We have housing alot like that
> part Herndon in close proximity. So you're wrong
> again.
I am not wrong about the conclusions people will make after reading your digressions on Alabama Ave. The point is we all have these neighborhoods as part of our school communities.
And I don't understand why on one-hand you are proud of this. Yet you get so angry when it is suggested that this type of housing is also in the area near your friends????????????
>
> Awaiting facts from Stu.
Then why don't you wait, instead of dragging this through pages of hot-headed accusations, again?
>
>
> Move to Herndon, there are plenty of nice houses
> and neighborhoods there.
Don't need too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 01:06PM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 12:57PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
>
> And really, not to defend Thomas, but SL people
> ARE concerned about taking on more Title one kids.
> We've already got the highest percentage of
> disadvantaged of the schools in this study.
>
I know this has to be hard for you, defending Thomas, especially since you spend around 50%+ of your posts refutting what he says.
>
> And really, not to defend Thomas, but SL people
> ARE concerned about taking on more Title one kids.
> We've already got the highest percentage of
> disadvantaged of the schools in this study.
>
I know this has to be hard for you, defending Thomas, especially since you spend around 50%+ of your posts refutting what he says.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:00PM
Chantilly Wrote:
>> -------------
>
> Sweetie in northern VA
> I don't know which PLANET you come from.....my
> kids also go to CHANTILLY...and we don't live in
> UTOPIA....just because your kids are not involved
> and don't want to be involved (good for
> you!)...doesn't mean gang activity doesn't
> exist...
> Again, talk to your kids....I DO talk to mine.
your children have told you that there are gangs in chantilly high school?
are they gangs or is it just a group of black and hispanic kids who hang around together...?
maybe your children need to check their racist attitudes along withy YOU checking yours.
I would be curious to know what gang acticity these "gangs" have been involved in and if YOU or your kids reported it to the principal.
I live in reality, not some racist third dimension....
I have never, in the 5 years I've been involved in chantilly high school, have heard of any gang violence or gang activity
and since you haven't backed up your claim with any facts, other than you "talk " to your kids, ( which you seem to think you're the only parent who does) I'm inclined to believe your kids don't know the difference between a gang and a group of ethnic kids who hang out together.
have a nice day, dearie.
>> -------------
>
> Sweetie in northern VA
> I don't know which PLANET you come from.....my
> kids also go to CHANTILLY...and we don't live in
> UTOPIA....just because your kids are not involved
> and don't want to be involved (good for
> you!)...doesn't mean gang activity doesn't
> exist...
> Again, talk to your kids....I DO talk to mine.
your children have told you that there are gangs in chantilly high school?
are they gangs or is it just a group of black and hispanic kids who hang around together...?
maybe your children need to check their racist attitudes along withy YOU checking yours.
I would be curious to know what gang acticity these "gangs" have been involved in and if YOU or your kids reported it to the principal.
I live in reality, not some racist third dimension....
I have never, in the 5 years I've been involved in chantilly high school, have heard of any gang violence or gang activity
and since you haven't backed up your claim with any facts, other than you "talk " to your kids, ( which you seem to think you're the only parent who does) I'm inclined to believe your kids don't know the difference between a gang and a group of ethnic kids who hang out together.
have a nice day, dearie.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:04PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Here is info I found at the wesite for The
> > Fields
> > > of Herndon.
> > >
> > > Application Fee - $35
> > > Security Deposit - $200-$300
> > > Redecoration Fee - Varies
> > > Lease Length - 12 months
> > > Pet Fees
> > >
> > > Income Qualification
> > > **Maximum income limits apply to the rental
> of
> > > these apartment homes - see listing below.
> > >
> > > Income Qualifications
> > > Number of Persons/Maximum Income at
> 50%/Maximum
> > > Income at 60%
> > >
> > > 1/$33,100/$39,720
> > > 2/$37,800/$45,360
> > > 3/$42,550/$51,060
> > > 4/$47,250/$56,700
> > > 5/$51,050/$61,260
> > > 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> > > To qualify, your income must be less than
> that
> > in
> > > the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
>
> Do you characterize this as low-income because it
> isn't. It's considered moderate income. For
> comparison look up the starting salary of a
> teacher, police office or firefighter in FFX?
>
> This is the KSI job immediately around the
> school.
>
> I certainly hope you're not asserting that this
> one project accurately characterizes the entire
> area of McNair south of the Toll Road.
I have said there are pockets and these do contribute to the area. Never suggested that it characterized the whole area.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Here is info I found at the wesite for The
> > Fields
> > > of Herndon.
> > >
> > > Application Fee - $35
> > > Security Deposit - $200-$300
> > > Redecoration Fee - Varies
> > > Lease Length - 12 months
> > > Pet Fees
> > >
> > > Income Qualification
> > > **Maximum income limits apply to the rental
> of
> > > these apartment homes - see listing below.
> > >
> > > Income Qualifications
> > > Number of Persons/Maximum Income at
> 50%/Maximum
> > > Income at 60%
> > >
> > > 1/$33,100/$39,720
> > > 2/$37,800/$45,360
> > > 3/$42,550/$51,060
> > > 4/$47,250/$56,700
> > > 5/$51,050/$61,260
> > > 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> > > To qualify, your income must be less than
> that
> > in
> > > the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
>
> Do you characterize this as low-income because it
> isn't. It's considered moderate income. For
> comparison look up the starting salary of a
> teacher, police office or firefighter in FFX?
>
> This is the KSI job immediately around the
> school.
>
> I certainly hope you're not asserting that this
> one project accurately characterizes the entire
> area of McNair south of the Toll Road.
I have said there are pockets and these do contribute to the area. Never suggested that it characterized the whole area.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:46PM
What is identified at the Ffx. Gov RHA site
Let me be clear that I am not saying anything good or bad about these communities. Not saying there are any more or less than what is in Reston or anywhere else.
Scattered units of Public Housing:
Coppermill
Privately owned ADU rentals at:
Archstone at Woodland Park
Avalon Fox Mill
Dulles Center Apts.
Oakwood Dulles
Trevor's Run
Woodland Park Apts.
Privately owned low-income housing tax credit properties:
Dulles Center Apts.
The Fields of Herndon (former Stratford Crossing)
Let me be clear that I am not saying anything good or bad about these communities. Not saying there are any more or less than what is in Reston or anywhere else.
Scattered units of Public Housing:
Coppermill
Privately owned ADU rentals at:
Archstone at Woodland Park
Avalon Fox Mill
Dulles Center Apts.
Oakwood Dulles
Trevor's Run
Woodland Park Apts.
Privately owned low-income housing tax credit properties:
Dulles Center Apts.
The Fields of Herndon (former Stratford Crossing)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:47PM
enough of the McNair stuff for now
I am going to sit back and watch the Chantilly sweeties and dearies have their fun!
I am going to sit back and watch the Chantilly sweeties and dearies have their fun!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:54PM
They just may try to overcompensate the number of kids to SLHS to make up for all those they will lose to pupil placing and private schools. I have spoken to so many neighbors who plan to form carpools to take kids to other schools that have AP if we are placed at South Lakes.
Looking at this thread, the chances of getting AP in place before the kids come in fall of 08 is nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes that don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for parents either.
Can't imagine all those "good test-takers" are going to be much help to SL when they're taking tests at other schools.
Looking at this thread, the chances of getting AP in place before the kids come in fall of 08 is nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes that don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for parents either.
Can't imagine all those "good test-takers" are going to be much help to SL when they're taking tests at other schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:54PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > And you've identified none.
>
> I have.
Which one would that be. The Fields of Herndon is NOT one.
>
> > Because my friends don't live in a low-income
> > area. They paid $500,000 for their house off
> of
> > Fox Mill. It's not a low-income area and is not
> a
> > source for large numbers of free lunch kids.
>
> I sort of wonder how close you are to these
> friends when back on October 22, 2007 you said
> this of McNair...
>
> "McNair is the elementary school furthest from
> Westfield, thus the one most likely to be shifted
> to either Herndon or SL. Sending it to either
> makes the socio-economic balance at either worse.
Since then, Word posted the map of McNair attendance area. I better understood what part of McNair went to Westfield and which part stays at Herndon. Facts informed my opinion. A novel concept for you, I understand.
> And on, October 23, 2007, you said this...
>
> "McNair parents won't be heavily involved thi
> sprocess. Their PTA is moribund. Look at their web
> site. So shoving McNair to SL is the course of
> least resistance."
Only 14% of McNair precinct voted Tuesday. Fox Mill turned out 41%. Hunter Mill Magisterial averaged 33% McNair isn't politically active. Frying Pan also was below average. It remains the course of least resistance.
> And on, October 28, 2007 you said...
>
> "Exactly. The Herndon PTA has been agressive,
> inducing Gibson to promise no redistricting in
> 2003, while the SL PTA has trusted Gibson, who is
> about to throw SL under the bus and give it
> McNair.
Posted prior to seeing map and understanding the split feed from McNair.
> You can only hope your friends aren't reading
> this!
Actually they were the one's who reminded me that they lived in McNair and that it wasn't a low income area, contrary to you prior postings. This occurred just about the time Word posted the map
>
> And then on October 29, 2007, you responded to
> Neen, indicating that you had no clue as to who
> even went to McNair
>
> "Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
>
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
>
> More Later"
>
> Continuing....
> >
> > I live in Reston. We have housing alot like
> that
> > part Herndon in close proximity. So you're
> wrong
> > again.
>
> I am not wrong about the conclusions people will
> make after reading your digressions on Alabama
> Ave. The point is we all have these neighborhoods
> as part of our school communities.
>
> And I don't understand why on one-hand you are
> proud of this. Yet you get so angry when it is
> suggested that this type of housing is also in the
> area near your friends????????????
As I have posted since seeing the map, visiting the area, the rental offices and the local merchants, adding the portion of McNair south of the Toll Road to either SL or Herndon would probably raise the demo of either school. But you'd have to read the postings to know that.
> > Awaiting facts from Stu.
>
> Then why don't you wait, instead of dragging this
> through pages of hot-headed accusations, again?
If you were reading the thread you would see that I was responding to SLPP's post this morning referencing that fool map of affordable housing AGAIN.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > And you've identified none.
>
> I have.
Which one would that be. The Fields of Herndon is NOT one.
>
> > Because my friends don't live in a low-income
> > area. They paid $500,000 for their house off
> of
> > Fox Mill. It's not a low-income area and is not
> a
> > source for large numbers of free lunch kids.
>
> I sort of wonder how close you are to these
> friends when back on October 22, 2007 you said
> this of McNair...
>
> "McNair is the elementary school furthest from
> Westfield, thus the one most likely to be shifted
> to either Herndon or SL. Sending it to either
> makes the socio-economic balance at either worse.
Since then, Word posted the map of McNair attendance area. I better understood what part of McNair went to Westfield and which part stays at Herndon. Facts informed my opinion. A novel concept for you, I understand.
> And on, October 23, 2007, you said this...
>
> "McNair parents won't be heavily involved thi
> sprocess. Their PTA is moribund. Look at their web
> site. So shoving McNair to SL is the course of
> least resistance."
Only 14% of McNair precinct voted Tuesday. Fox Mill turned out 41%. Hunter Mill Magisterial averaged 33% McNair isn't politically active. Frying Pan also was below average. It remains the course of least resistance.
> And on, October 28, 2007 you said...
>
> "Exactly. The Herndon PTA has been agressive,
> inducing Gibson to promise no redistricting in
> 2003, while the SL PTA has trusted Gibson, who is
> about to throw SL under the bus and give it
> McNair.
Posted prior to seeing map and understanding the split feed from McNair.
> You can only hope your friends aren't reading
> this!
Actually they were the one's who reminded me that they lived in McNair and that it wasn't a low income area, contrary to you prior postings. This occurred just about the time Word posted the map
>
> And then on October 29, 2007, you responded to
> Neen, indicating that you had no clue as to who
> even went to McNair
>
> "Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
>
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair
>
> More Later"
>
> Continuing....
> >
> > I live in Reston. We have housing alot like
> that
> > part Herndon in close proximity. So you're
> wrong
> > again.
>
> I am not wrong about the conclusions people will
> make after reading your digressions on Alabama
> Ave. The point is we all have these neighborhoods
> as part of our school communities.
>
> And I don't understand why on one-hand you are
> proud of this. Yet you get so angry when it is
> suggested that this type of housing is also in the
> area near your friends????????????
As I have posted since seeing the map, visiting the area, the rental offices and the local merchants, adding the portion of McNair south of the Toll Road to either SL or Herndon would probably raise the demo of either school. But you'd have to read the postings to know that.
> > Awaiting facts from Stu.
>
> Then why don't you wait, instead of dragging this
> through pages of hot-headed accusations, again?
If you were reading the thread you would see that I was responding to SLPP's post this morning referencing that fool map of affordable housing AGAIN.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:55PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Cricket Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Here is info I found at the wesite for The
> > > Fields
> > > > of Herndon.
> > > >
> > > > Application Fee - $35
> > > > Security Deposit - $200-$300
> > > > Redecoration Fee - Varies
> > > > Lease Length - 12 months
> > > > Pet Fees
> > > >
> > > > Income Qualification
> > > > **Maximum income limits apply to the rental
> > of
> > > > these apartment homes - see listing below.
> > > >
> > > > Income Qualifications
> > > > Number of Persons/Maximum Income at
> > 50%/Maximum
> > > > Income at 60%
> > > >
> > > > 1/$33,100/$39,720
> > > > 2/$37,800/$45,360
> > > > 3/$42,550/$51,060
> > > > 4/$47,250/$56,700
> > > > 5/$51,050/$61,260
> > > > 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> > > > To qualify, your income must be less than
> > that
> > > in
> > > > the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
> >
> > Do you characterize this as low-income because
> it
> > isn't. It's considered moderate income. For
> > comparison look up the starting salary of a
> > teacher, police office or firefighter in FFX?
> >
> > This is the KSI job immediately around the
> > school.
> >
> > I certainly hope you're not asserting that this
> > one project accurately characterizes the entire
> > area of McNair south of the Toll Road.
>
>
> I have said there are pockets and these do
> contribute to the area. Never suggested that it
> characterized the whole area.
Reread your own posts
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Cricket Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Here is info I found at the wesite for The
> > > Fields
> > > > of Herndon.
> > > >
> > > > Application Fee - $35
> > > > Security Deposit - $200-$300
> > > > Redecoration Fee - Varies
> > > > Lease Length - 12 months
> > > > Pet Fees
> > > >
> > > > Income Qualification
> > > > **Maximum income limits apply to the rental
> > of
> > > > these apartment homes - see listing below.
> > > >
> > > > Income Qualifications
> > > > Number of Persons/Maximum Income at
> > 50%/Maximum
> > > > Income at 60%
> > > >
> > > > 1/$33,100/$39,720
> > > > 2/$37,800/$45,360
> > > > 3/$42,550/$51,060
> > > > 4/$47,250/$56,700
> > > > 5/$51,050/$61,260
> > > > 6/ $54,800 $65,760
> > > > To qualify, your income must be less than
> > that
> > > in
> > > > the chart. 2007 Published Incomes.
> >
> > Do you characterize this as low-income because
> it
> > isn't. It's considered moderate income. For
> > comparison look up the starting salary of a
> > teacher, police office or firefighter in FFX?
> >
> > This is the KSI job immediately around the
> > school.
> >
> > I certainly hope you're not asserting that this
> > one project accurately characterizes the entire
> > area of McNair south of the Toll Road.
>
>
> I have said there are pockets and these do
> contribute to the area. Never suggested that it
> characterized the whole area.
Reread your own posts
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:57PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLPP - actually the split feeder problem for
> > McNair would go away when Coppermine ES opens.
> The
> > boundary for that is most likely Centreville
> Rd.
> >
> > I think what I proposed is most likely because
> it
> > is provides minimal movement of families,
> > contiguous borders, solves the attendance and
> > growth area problems, and the lion share of
> what
> > South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill
> ES.
> >
> > I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map
> > would look like if you remove Crossfield and
> Fox
> > Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8
> > miles from any other part of the attendance
> area.
> > In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
>
>
> First of all, thank you for calling Fox Mill ES
> good.
> Compliments aside, most Fox Mill families would
> rather stay with Oakton, no news there I'm sure.
> Yes, SL is closer, and there is gallows humor
> about our kids having a better class rank there.
> I'll repeat myself: whatever non-free lunch/good
> test taking kids are sent to SL need to get
> something out of this. SL gets an infusion of PTA
> type families--what will the new families get? Do
> I hear high level math clases? What else do you
> think is reasonable? I'm interested in the ideas
> of those who might be moved and those who have
> been at SL.
I and I hope other SL parents would be very interested to explore expanding the AP curriculum and having both IB and AP at South Lakes. Many other high schools in Va do this and not just the big ones like Robinson.l
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLPP - actually the split feeder problem for
> > McNair would go away when Coppermine ES opens.
> The
> > boundary for that is most likely Centreville
> Rd.
> >
> > I think what I proposed is most likely because
> it
> > is provides minimal movement of families,
> > contiguous borders, solves the attendance and
> > growth area problems, and the lion share of
> what
> > South Lakes picks up is a very good Fox Mill
> ES.
> >
> > I can't imagine what the Oakton attendance map
> > would look like if you remove Crossfield and
> Fox
> > Mill and add McNair. You would have an Island 8
> > miles from any other part of the attendance
> area.
> > In my opinion that is highly unlikely.
>
>
> First of all, thank you for calling Fox Mill ES
> good.
> Compliments aside, most Fox Mill families would
> rather stay with Oakton, no news there I'm sure.
> Yes, SL is closer, and there is gallows humor
> about our kids having a better class rank there.
> I'll repeat myself: whatever non-free lunch/good
> test taking kids are sent to SL need to get
> something out of this. SL gets an infusion of PTA
> type families--what will the new families get? Do
> I hear high level math clases? What else do you
> think is reasonable? I'm interested in the ideas
> of those who might be moved and those who have
> been at SL.
I and I hope other SL parents would be very interested to explore expanding the AP curriculum and having both IB and AP at South Lakes. Many other high schools in Va do this and not just the big ones like Robinson.l
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:58PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> First of all, thank you for calling Fox Mill ES
> good.
> Compliments aside, most Fox Mill families would
> rather stay with Oakton, no news there I'm sure.
> Yes, SL is closer, and there is gallows humor
> about our kids having a better class rank there.
> I'll repeat myself: whatever non-free lunch/good
> test taking kids are sent to SL need to get
> something out of this. SL gets an infusion of PTA
> type families--what will the new families get? Do
> I hear high level math clases? What else do you
> think is reasonable? I'm interested in the ideas
> of those who might be moved and those who have
> been at SL.
First of all, I am a future SL parent. Here is a quick list:
- The optimal combination of IB (writing) and AP (math) classes
- An increased number of progams (to even the playing field) and a better than average ratio of teachers/students
- Clarification of any security issues (real vs. perceived)
- Assurances that past mistakes will not be repeated. For example, parental involvement in admin hiring decisions.
What do you think? Sorry, but I hope Fox Mill is added to SL. I don't want to sound like the kid in the candy store, but I would also take some combination (within the numbers) of Adrin, Armstrong, Madison island,or Crossfield. My two cents is that SL will become a strong school as a result of this change.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> First of all, thank you for calling Fox Mill ES
> good.
> Compliments aside, most Fox Mill families would
> rather stay with Oakton, no news there I'm sure.
> Yes, SL is closer, and there is gallows humor
> about our kids having a better class rank there.
> I'll repeat myself: whatever non-free lunch/good
> test taking kids are sent to SL need to get
> something out of this. SL gets an infusion of PTA
> type families--what will the new families get? Do
> I hear high level math clases? What else do you
> think is reasonable? I'm interested in the ideas
> of those who might be moved and those who have
> been at SL.
First of all, I am a future SL parent. Here is a quick list:
- The optimal combination of IB (writing) and AP (math) classes
- An increased number of progams (to even the playing field) and a better than average ratio of teachers/students
- Clarification of any security issues (real vs. perceived)
- Assurances that past mistakes will not be repeated. For example, parental involvement in admin hiring decisions.
What do you think? Sorry, but I hope Fox Mill is added to SL. I don't want to sound like the kid in the candy store, but I would also take some combination (within the numbers) of Adrin, Armstrong, Madison island,or Crossfield. My two cents is that SL will become a strong school as a result of this change.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 08, 2007 01:58PM
Cougarmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They just may try to overcompensate the number of
> kids to SLHS to make up for all those they will
> lose to pupil placing and private schools. I have
> spoken to so many neighbors who plan to form
> carpools to take kids to other schools that have
> AP if we are placed at South Lakes.
>
> Looking at this thread, the chances of getting AP
> in place before the kids come in fall of 08 is
> nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes that
> don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for parents
> either.
>
> Can't imagine all those "good test-takers" are
> going to be much help to SL when they're taking
> tests at other schools.
Sounds like the American Sign Language and German 4,5 and AP classes at Oakton are going to fill up quickly the next couple of years! South Lakes wants more students so it can offer more classes like these, but it will not happen overnight and as long as they don't have those classes, people will be able to place out of there, keeping the enrollment lower than hoped. Vicious circle.
-------------------------------------------------------
> They just may try to overcompensate the number of
> kids to SLHS to make up for all those they will
> lose to pupil placing and private schools. I have
> spoken to so many neighbors who plan to form
> carpools to take kids to other schools that have
> AP if we are placed at South Lakes.
>
> Looking at this thread, the chances of getting AP
> in place before the kids come in fall of 08 is
> nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes that
> don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for parents
> either.
>
> Can't imagine all those "good test-takers" are
> going to be much help to SL when they're taking
> tests at other schools.
Sounds like the American Sign Language and German 4,5 and AP classes at Oakton are going to fill up quickly the next couple of years! South Lakes wants more students so it can offer more classes like these, but it will not happen overnight and as long as they don't have those classes, people will be able to place out of there, keeping the enrollment lower than hoped. Vicious circle.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:04PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is identified at the Ffx. Gov RHA site
>
> Let me be clear that I am not saying anything good
> or bad about these communities.
You've been making disparging comments about the McNair area throughout your posts. Reread your own posts.
> Not saying there
> are any more or less than what is in Reston or
> anywhere else.
>
> Scattered units of Public Housing:
> Coppermill
>
> Privately owned ADU rentals at:
>
> Archstone at Woodland Park
> Avalon Fox Mill
> Dulles Center Apts.
> Oakwood Dulles
> Trevor's Run
> Woodland Park Apts.
ADU were discussed in the prior posts. They have to have an income that is a fairly high percentage of mean income in the County which is extraordinarily high to begin with. ADU are no more than 10% of these projects. Together they won't total 300 free lunches
> Privately owned low-income housing tax credit
> properties:
> Dulles Center Apts.
> The Fields of Herndon (former Stratford Crossing)
These are moderate income projects. Teachers, firefighters and police officers would qualify for these apartments
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 02:09PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is identified at the Ffx. Gov RHA site
>
> Let me be clear that I am not saying anything good
> or bad about these communities.
You've been making disparging comments about the McNair area throughout your posts. Reread your own posts.
> Not saying there
> are any more or less than what is in Reston or
> anywhere else.
>
> Scattered units of Public Housing:
> Coppermill
>
> Privately owned ADU rentals at:
>
> Archstone at Woodland Park
> Avalon Fox Mill
> Dulles Center Apts.
> Oakwood Dulles
> Trevor's Run
> Woodland Park Apts.
ADU were discussed in the prior posts. They have to have an income that is a fairly high percentage of mean income in the County which is extraordinarily high to begin with. ADU are no more than 10% of these projects. Together they won't total 300 free lunches
> Privately owned low-income housing tax credit
> properties:
> Dulles Center Apts.
> The Fields of Herndon (former Stratford Crossing)
These are moderate income projects. Teachers, firefighters and police officers would qualify for these apartments
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 02:09PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:09PM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is identified at the Ffx. Gov RHA site
>
> Let me be clear that I am not saying anything good
> or bad about these communities. Not saying there
> are any more or less than what is in Reston or
> anywhere else.
>
> Scattered units of Public Housing:
> Coppermill
>
> Privately owned ADU rentals at:
>
> Archstone at Woodland Park
> Avalon Fox Mill
> Dulles Center Apts.
> Oakwood Dulles
> Trevor's Run
> Woodland Park Apts.
>
> Privately owned low-income housing tax credit
> properties:
> Dulles Center Apts.
> The Fields of Herndon (former Stratford Crossing)
Thanks for the info. Cricket, Can you post the link?
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is identified at the Ffx. Gov RHA site
>
> Let me be clear that I am not saying anything good
> or bad about these communities. Not saying there
> are any more or less than what is in Reston or
> anywhere else.
>
> Scattered units of Public Housing:
> Coppermill
>
> Privately owned ADU rentals at:
>
> Archstone at Woodland Park
> Avalon Fox Mill
> Dulles Center Apts.
> Oakwood Dulles
> Trevor's Run
> Woodland Park Apts.
>
> Privately owned low-income housing tax credit
> properties:
> Dulles Center Apts.
> The Fields of Herndon (former Stratford Crossing)
Thanks for the info. Cricket, Can you post the link?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:15PM
HooTribe wrote:
What do you think? Sorry, but I hope Fox Mill is added to SL. I don't want to sound like the kid in the candy store, but I would also take some combination (within the numbers) of Adrin, Armstrong, Madison island,or Crossfield. My two cents is that SL will become a strong school as a result of this change.
That's really nice for you, that SL will become a strong school as a result of this change. What you are conveniently forgetting is that this result comes at someone else's expense. I moved where I moved so my kids would go to Oakton. Period, end, done. Now Stu and Kathy say that's not up to me? Really? Because don't you move into a "school district"? That's what I did. And now it's no longer my choice? If I had wanted my kids to go to SL, I would have moved to the part of Reston that goes there. It's as simple as that.
And to think that this is about politics (Langley and Madison being left out) and socioeconomics (all this McNair discussion).
Hey, no problem, as long as you get your nice strong school, cause we're only here to make you happy.
What do you think? Sorry, but I hope Fox Mill is added to SL. I don't want to sound like the kid in the candy store, but I would also take some combination (within the numbers) of Adrin, Armstrong, Madison island,or Crossfield. My two cents is that SL will become a strong school as a result of this change.
That's really nice for you, that SL will become a strong school as a result of this change. What you are conveniently forgetting is that this result comes at someone else's expense. I moved where I moved so my kids would go to Oakton. Period, end, done. Now Stu and Kathy say that's not up to me? Really? Because don't you move into a "school district"? That's what I did. And now it's no longer my choice? If I had wanted my kids to go to SL, I would have moved to the part of Reston that goes there. It's as simple as that.
And to think that this is about politics (Langley and Madison being left out) and socioeconomics (all this McNair discussion).
Hey, no problem, as long as you get your nice strong school, cause we're only here to make you happy.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:25PM
Cougarmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe wrote:
>
>
> What do you think? Sorry, but I hope Fox Mill is
> added to SL. I don't want to sound like the kid in
> the candy store, but I would also take some
> combination (within the numbers) of Adrin,
> Armstrong, Madison island,or Crossfield. My two
> cents is that SL will become a strong school as a
> result of this change.
>
>
> That's really nice for you, that SL will become a
> strong school as a result of this change. What
> you are conveniently forgetting is that this
> result comes at someone else's expense. I moved
> where I moved so my kids would go to Oakton.
> Period, end, done. Now Stu and Kathy say that's
> not up to me? Really? Because don't you move
> into a "school district"? That's what I did. And
> now it's no longer my choice? If I had wanted my
> kids to go to SL, I would have moved to the part
> of Reston that goes there. It's as simple as
> that.
>
> And to think that this is about politics (Langley
> and Madison being left out) and socioeconomics
> (all this McNair discussion).
>
> Hey, no problem, as long as you get your nice
> strong school, cause we're only here to make you
> happy.
OK, so your concern is that you will have a strong school that is closer to your home?
For those students who are already at Oakton, I would support them continuing there. But for someone who is currently in the 4th - 6th grades, if they will go to a solid school, isn't that a good thing? My point was to address the concerns people might have about the quality of education. I can't address your cougar affinity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe wrote:
>
>
> What do you think? Sorry, but I hope Fox Mill is
> added to SL. I don't want to sound like the kid in
> the candy store, but I would also take some
> combination (within the numbers) of Adrin,
> Armstrong, Madison island,or Crossfield. My two
> cents is that SL will become a strong school as a
> result of this change.
>
>
> That's really nice for you, that SL will become a
> strong school as a result of this change. What
> you are conveniently forgetting is that this
> result comes at someone else's expense. I moved
> where I moved so my kids would go to Oakton.
> Period, end, done. Now Stu and Kathy say that's
> not up to me? Really? Because don't you move
> into a "school district"? That's what I did. And
> now it's no longer my choice? If I had wanted my
> kids to go to SL, I would have moved to the part
> of Reston that goes there. It's as simple as
> that.
>
> And to think that this is about politics (Langley
> and Madison being left out) and socioeconomics
> (all this McNair discussion).
>
> Hey, no problem, as long as you get your nice
> strong school, cause we're only here to make you
> happy.
OK, so your concern is that you will have a strong school that is closer to your home?
For those students who are already at Oakton, I would support them continuing there. But for someone who is currently in the 4th - 6th grades, if they will go to a solid school, isn't that a good thing? My point was to address the concerns people might have about the quality of education. I can't address your cougar affinity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:28PM
Cougarmom,
I don't think we would be having this discussion if SL was not underenrolled. That's what this is about.
Also, I moved here from Pa and there are school districts there--I never heard of redistricting schools before. I wish it was that way here too. I think FCPS is too large and beaurocratic and treats us all like moveable pawns.
SL has suffered from past redistrictings and surrounding areas were strengthened at our expense. Don't make this about us "taking" something from other schools without any historical context of what has come before.
I don't think we would be having this discussion if SL was not underenrolled. That's what this is about.
Also, I moved here from Pa and there are school districts there--I never heard of redistricting schools before. I wish it was that way here too. I think FCPS is too large and beaurocratic and treats us all like moveable pawns.
SL has suffered from past redistrictings and surrounding areas were strengthened at our expense. Don't make this about us "taking" something from other schools without any historical context of what has come before.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:30PM
I'm not sure that it would take as long as some think to add AP units.
-South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or 2002.
-Many teachers are still there who taught AP prior to teaching IB.
-The principal was at an AP school for years prior to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid understanding of the program.
-With increased enrollment numbers new teachers will be hired. Perhaps some will even be AP transfers from other schools. We are talking about shifting populations. Some teachers will be dropped from one school and picked up by another. For example, a Westfield AP teacher could end up at SL.
Don't fool yourselves that everyone will carpool their children. I have heard these threats before yet they never pan out. They are akin to Alec Baldwin saying he would move to Europe if Bush was elected - he's still here. It will not happen because some will decide that the alternatives will be fine once the dust settles, there may not be room at the desired schools once enrollment numbers are set, and carpooling is inconvenient for many families.
Since redistricting is going to happen, perhaps energy should be focused on making the best of the anticipated situations and improving all of the schools involved, including South Lakes. Those who are open to moving will probably have more leverage in negotiations than those who resist.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 02:34PM by SLVerity.
-South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or 2002.
-Many teachers are still there who taught AP prior to teaching IB.
-The principal was at an AP school for years prior to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid understanding of the program.
-With increased enrollment numbers new teachers will be hired. Perhaps some will even be AP transfers from other schools. We are talking about shifting populations. Some teachers will be dropped from one school and picked up by another. For example, a Westfield AP teacher could end up at SL.
Don't fool yourselves that everyone will carpool their children. I have heard these threats before yet they never pan out. They are akin to Alec Baldwin saying he would move to Europe if Bush was elected - he's still here. It will not happen because some will decide that the alternatives will be fine once the dust settles, there may not be room at the desired schools once enrollment numbers are set, and carpooling is inconvenient for many families.
Since redistricting is going to happen, perhaps energy should be focused on making the best of the anticipated situations and improving all of the schools involved, including South Lakes. Those who are open to moving will probably have more leverage in negotiations than those who resist.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 02:34PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:35PM
HooTribe Wrote:
>
> OK, so your concern is that you will have a strong
> school that is closer to your home?
>
> For those students who are already at Oakton, I
> would support them continuing there. But for
> someone who is currently in the 4th - 6th grades,
> if they will go to a solid school, isn't that a
> good thing? My point was to address the concerns
> people might have about the quality of education.
> I can't address your cougar affinity.
Go Hoo!
>
> OK, so your concern is that you will have a strong
> school that is closer to your home?
>
> For those students who are already at Oakton, I
> would support them continuing there. But for
> someone who is currently in the 4th - 6th grades,
> if they will go to a solid school, isn't that a
> good thing? My point was to address the concerns
> people might have about the quality of education.
> I can't address your cougar affinity.
Go Hoo!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 02:52PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure that it would take as long as some
> think to add AP units.
>
> -South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or 2002.
>
> -Many teachers are still there who taught AP prior
> to teaching IB.
> -The principal was at an AP school for years prior
> to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid
> understanding of the program.
> -With increased enrollment numbers new teachers
> will be hired. Perhaps some will even be AP
> transfers from other schools. We are talking
> about shifting populations. Some teachers will be
> dropped from one school and picked up by another.
> For example, a Westfield AP teacher could end up
> at SL.
>
> Don't fool yourselves that everyone will carpool
> their children. I have heard these threats before
> yet they never pan out. They are akin to Alec
> Baldwin saying he would move to Europe if Bush was
> elected - he's still here. It will not happen
> because some will decide that the alternatives
> will be fine once the dust settles, there may not
> be room at the desired schools once enrollment
> numbers are set, and carpooling is inconvenient
> for many families.
>
> Since redistricting is going to happen, perhaps
> energy should be focused on making the best of the
> anticipated situations and improving all of the
> schools involved, including South Lakes. Those
> who are open to moving will probably have more
> leverage in negotiations than those who resist.
The assertion that carpooling is a "threat" is ridiculous. Carpooling is simply a means to get a group of people from one place to another. And if you think it's not going to happen, then let's take HooTribe's theory that it's okay for kids in grades 4-6 to end up at a school that may have improved in it's offerings in the next 3-5 years. Well, what about the current 8th graders that are in no man's land right now? What are they walking into? Not SL! They will be in cars on the way to another school. They will be "carpooling".
What you are saying is simply, "Just lie down there and take it - we need your neighborhood for our school and you all just play nice while we take it from you."
I student taught at South Lakes. I am not someone who has never "walked the halls" or "spoke to staff". I did those things and have opted for another school. Why are you so bent out of shape because someone chose something different from you?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure that it would take as long as some
> think to add AP units.
>
> -South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or 2002.
>
> -Many teachers are still there who taught AP prior
> to teaching IB.
> -The principal was at an AP school for years prior
> to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid
> understanding of the program.
> -With increased enrollment numbers new teachers
> will be hired. Perhaps some will even be AP
> transfers from other schools. We are talking
> about shifting populations. Some teachers will be
> dropped from one school and picked up by another.
> For example, a Westfield AP teacher could end up
> at SL.
>
> Don't fool yourselves that everyone will carpool
> their children. I have heard these threats before
> yet they never pan out. They are akin to Alec
> Baldwin saying he would move to Europe if Bush was
> elected - he's still here. It will not happen
> because some will decide that the alternatives
> will be fine once the dust settles, there may not
> be room at the desired schools once enrollment
> numbers are set, and carpooling is inconvenient
> for many families.
>
> Since redistricting is going to happen, perhaps
> energy should be focused on making the best of the
> anticipated situations and improving all of the
> schools involved, including South Lakes. Those
> who are open to moving will probably have more
> leverage in negotiations than those who resist.
The assertion that carpooling is a "threat" is ridiculous. Carpooling is simply a means to get a group of people from one place to another. And if you think it's not going to happen, then let's take HooTribe's theory that it's okay for kids in grades 4-6 to end up at a school that may have improved in it's offerings in the next 3-5 years. Well, what about the current 8th graders that are in no man's land right now? What are they walking into? Not SL! They will be in cars on the way to another school. They will be "carpooling".
What you are saying is simply, "Just lie down there and take it - we need your neighborhood for our school and you all just play nice while we take it from you."
I student taught at South Lakes. I am not someone who has never "walked the halls" or "spoke to staff". I did those things and have opted for another school. Why are you so bent out of shape because someone chose something different from you?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:02PM
Cougar, I truly am not bent out of shape. I am simply stating that not everyone will carpool and that there may not be room in the schools to which one may want to carpool. I agree that current 8th graders are in no man's land and empathize with you completely on that front. I think you should bring that up at the meetings.
All I am asking is that you consider that maybe things will work out in the end. As I and many others have stated before, we sat and watched as decisions were made that hurt SL and helped surrounding schools, so please allow us to hope for some positive action coming our way now. We care about our community, just like you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 03:02PM by SLVerity.
All I am asking is that you consider that maybe things will work out in the end. As I and many others have stated before, we sat and watched as decisions were made that hurt SL and helped surrounding schools, so please allow us to hope for some positive action coming our way now. We care about our community, just like you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 03:02PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:07PM
I am curious as to all of the past decisions that hurt SL...
My understanding is when new homes were built in North Reston the were sent off to Herndon and Langley as opposed to SL. I am not aware of existing neighborhoods that were removed from SL. I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sure you'll let me know.
My understanding is when new homes were built in North Reston the were sent off to Herndon and Langley as opposed to SL. I am not aware of existing neighborhoods that were removed from SL. I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sure you'll let me know.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:07PM
CougarMom,
My daughter is in 8th grade and going to SL next year. I never thought she was going to "No Man's Land"--not sure why you would say that. We are very much looking forward to her going to South Lakes, given all the good things we hear from older kids and neighbors.
I'm sure you can find a way to keep your kids from going to South Lakes, but I think if you would give the idea a chance and communicate that to your kids, you might be pleasantly surprised at the outcome. If you turn your kids against SL and they end up going there, that won't be good for them or anyone else.
My daughter is in 8th grade and going to SL next year. I never thought she was going to "No Man's Land"--not sure why you would say that. We are very much looking forward to her going to South Lakes, given all the good things we hear from older kids and neighbors.
I'm sure you can find a way to keep your kids from going to South Lakes, but I think if you would give the idea a chance and communicate that to your kids, you might be pleasantly surprised at the outcome. If you turn your kids against SL and they end up going there, that won't be good for them or anyone else.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:08PM
and now it's gone
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:12PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougar, I truly am not bent out of shape. I am
> simply stating that not everyone will carpool and
> that there may not be room in the schools to which
> one may want to carpool. I agree that current 8th
> graders are in no man's land and empathize with
> you completely on that front. I think you should
> bring that up at the meetings.
>
> All I am asking is that you consider that maybe
> things will work out in the end. As I and many
> others have stated before, we sat and watched as
> decisions were made that hurt SL and helped
> surrounding schools, so please allow us to hope
> for some positive action coming our way now. We
> care about our community, just like you.
I think there definitely will be room in the other schools, as the recent demographics have shown every one of the schools involved trending downwards. You take kids out of those schools to put into South Lakes and there is an empty seat for every kid that left. If kids are not pupil placed, it won't be because there are no seats, but will be because the county decides to suddenly get tough with the issue to keep people at South Lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougar, I truly am not bent out of shape. I am
> simply stating that not everyone will carpool and
> that there may not be room in the schools to which
> one may want to carpool. I agree that current 8th
> graders are in no man's land and empathize with
> you completely on that front. I think you should
> bring that up at the meetings.
>
> All I am asking is that you consider that maybe
> things will work out in the end. As I and many
> others have stated before, we sat and watched as
> decisions were made that hurt SL and helped
> surrounding schools, so please allow us to hope
> for some positive action coming our way now. We
> care about our community, just like you.
I think there definitely will be room in the other schools, as the recent demographics have shown every one of the schools involved trending downwards. You take kids out of those schools to put into South Lakes and there is an empty seat for every kid that left. If kids are not pupil placed, it won't be because there are no seats, but will be because the county decides to suddenly get tough with the issue to keep people at South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:18PM
I do want a positive outcome for you too SLVerity. It's so frustrating to have decisions made for you that you may have not agreed with - at least we will have a voice at the meetings and I wish you had had the same chance.
The school board just doesn't have a good track record. They've really messed things up with past redistrictings and I just don't trust them. I hope everyone ends up satisfied, but don't think that will be the case. Even school staff doesn't think so - this is from the latest Fairfax Times (regarding the upcoming Chantilly meeting), sorry I don't have the link:
Staff expect audiences in the hundreds, most of them concerned or even outraged at the idea of redistricting.
“I fully expect almost every single person that will be moved will be unhappy about it,” Tistadt said.
The school board just doesn't have a good track record. They've really messed things up with past redistrictings and I just don't trust them. I hope everyone ends up satisfied, but don't think that will be the case. Even school staff doesn't think so - this is from the latest Fairfax Times (regarding the upcoming Chantilly meeting), sorry I don't have the link:
Staff expect audiences in the hundreds, most of them concerned or even outraged at the idea of redistricting.
“I fully expect almost every single person that will be moved will be unhappy about it,” Tistadt said.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:19PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CougarMom,
> My daughter is in 8th grade and going to SL next
> year. I never thought she was going to "No Man's
> Land"--not sure why you would say that. We are
> very much looking forward to her going to South
> Lakes, given all the good things we hear from
> older kids and neighbors.
>
> I'm sure you can find a way to keep your kids from
> going to South Lakes, but I think if you would
> give the idea a chance and communicate that to
> your kids, you might be pleasantly surprised at
> the outcome. If you turn your kids against SL and
> they end up going there, that won't be good for
> them or anyone else.
What I read "no man's land" to mean in Cougar Mom's post was that the kids in 7th, and especially 8th,grades right now have no clue what is going to happen to them. I didn't read it as referring to South Lakes as "no man's land." The uneasiness that our kids, who will potentially be affected, feel is great. I keep reading posts about how wonderful this will all be for the kids at South Lakes, but those from South Lakes can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that there are kids who have deep roots in their own schools...or schools that are not their own yet, but have been their family community for many years. And I am not turning my kids against South Lakes...they just don't want to go there because they have a deep seated interest and commitment to Oakton, which has been their family/community for years.
-------------------------------------------------------
> CougarMom,
> My daughter is in 8th grade and going to SL next
> year. I never thought she was going to "No Man's
> Land"--not sure why you would say that. We are
> very much looking forward to her going to South
> Lakes, given all the good things we hear from
> older kids and neighbors.
>
> I'm sure you can find a way to keep your kids from
> going to South Lakes, but I think if you would
> give the idea a chance and communicate that to
> your kids, you might be pleasantly surprised at
> the outcome. If you turn your kids against SL and
> they end up going there, that won't be good for
> them or anyone else.
What I read "no man's land" to mean in Cougar Mom's post was that the kids in 7th, and especially 8th,grades right now have no clue what is going to happen to them. I didn't read it as referring to South Lakes as "no man's land." The uneasiness that our kids, who will potentially be affected, feel is great. I keep reading posts about how wonderful this will all be for the kids at South Lakes, but those from South Lakes can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that there are kids who have deep roots in their own schools...or schools that are not their own yet, but have been their family community for many years. And I am not turning my kids against South Lakes...they just don't want to go there because they have a deep seated interest and commitment to Oakton, which has been their family/community for years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:26PM
To South Lakes Pyramid Parent, what I meant about "No Man's Land" is that at this time we do not know if or to what school our 8th-grader will be redistricted. You are lucky that you know what school your child is slated to attend. We do not have that same luxury.
My 8th grader wears a cougars sweatshirt to school every morning. So, should he wake up one day and put on a seahawks one? What to do, what to do....
My 8th grader wears a cougars sweatshirt to school every morning. So, should he wake up one day and put on a seahawks one? What to do, what to do....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:28PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am curious as to all of the past decisions that
> hurt SL...
>
> My understanding is when new homes were built in
> North Reston the were sent off to Herndon and
> Langley as opposed to SL. I am not aware of
> existing neighborhoods that were removed from SL.
> I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sure you'll let
> me know.
The property that now comprises Aldrin was in the South Lakes district, and several neighborhoods, including Longwood Grove, were already attending Lake Anne, Hughes, and SL. Equestrian Park, which is relatively small but within the Reston Master Plan, was districted to Madison. A group of homes on Artic Fox (Fox Mill Road) that were built on land once in our pyramid, were disricted to Oakton. I believe that the land on the south side of Rt. 7 that now goes to Langley was also at one point in our boundary (Bishopgate, e.g.) but that was before I was involved and I am not sure of the circumstances. These are examples that I am aware of, and I am sure there are others.
Even though in some cases we didn't lose existing students, the impact of the loss of future students was felt in our attendance numbers, and our boundary was being whittled away. While other school districts were benefitting from the infusion of new batches of students every time a new development was built, we were losing the few remaining undeveloped areas and thus potential new students in our district to other schools. For an aging community it was a very big deal.
We have also had expend a lot of energy waging fights to keep additional neighborhoods from being districted out. For example, two years ago several neighborhoods on the border with Madison fought and lost an attempt to be moved to Madison. We had similar border fights with Crossfield prior to Hunters Woods becoming a magnet.
Thanks for your confidence in my ability to set the record straight;)
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am curious as to all of the past decisions that
> hurt SL...
>
> My understanding is when new homes were built in
> North Reston the were sent off to Herndon and
> Langley as opposed to SL. I am not aware of
> existing neighborhoods that were removed from SL.
> I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sure you'll let
> me know.
The property that now comprises Aldrin was in the South Lakes district, and several neighborhoods, including Longwood Grove, were already attending Lake Anne, Hughes, and SL. Equestrian Park, which is relatively small but within the Reston Master Plan, was districted to Madison. A group of homes on Artic Fox (Fox Mill Road) that were built on land once in our pyramid, were disricted to Oakton. I believe that the land on the south side of Rt. 7 that now goes to Langley was also at one point in our boundary (Bishopgate, e.g.) but that was before I was involved and I am not sure of the circumstances. These are examples that I am aware of, and I am sure there are others.
Even though in some cases we didn't lose existing students, the impact of the loss of future students was felt in our attendance numbers, and our boundary was being whittled away. While other school districts were benefitting from the infusion of new batches of students every time a new development was built, we were losing the few remaining undeveloped areas and thus potential new students in our district to other schools. For an aging community it was a very big deal.
We have also had expend a lot of energy waging fights to keep additional neighborhoods from being districted out. For example, two years ago several neighborhoods on the border with Madison fought and lost an attempt to be moved to Madison. We had similar border fights with Crossfield prior to Hunters Woods becoming a magnet.
Thanks for your confidence in my ability to set the record straight;)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:30PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cougar, I truly am not bent out of shape. I am
> > simply stating that not everyone will carpool
> and
> > that there may not be room in the schools to
> which
> > one may want to carpool. I agree that current
> 8th
> > graders are in no man's land and empathize with
> > you completely on that front. I think you
> should
> > bring that up at the meetings.
> >
> > All I am asking is that you consider that maybe
> > things will work out in the end. As I and many
> > others have stated before, we sat and watched
> as
> > decisions were made that hurt SL and helped
> > surrounding schools, so please allow us to hope
> > for some positive action coming our way now.
> We
> > care about our community, just like you.
>
> I think there definitely will be room in the other
> schools, as the recent demographics have shown
> every one of the schools involved trending
> downwards. You take kids out of those schools to
> put into South Lakes and there is an empty seat
> for every kid that left. If kids are not pupil
> placed, it won't be because there are no seats,
> but will be because the county decides to suddenly
> get tough with the issue to keep people at South
> Lakes.
I believe that there has been talk of lowering the cap at Westfield, to keep it from being too big and that will have an impact. I could be wrong, but that is what I have heard.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cougar, I truly am not bent out of shape. I am
> > simply stating that not everyone will carpool
> and
> > that there may not be room in the schools to
> which
> > one may want to carpool. I agree that current
> 8th
> > graders are in no man's land and empathize with
> > you completely on that front. I think you
> should
> > bring that up at the meetings.
> >
> > All I am asking is that you consider that maybe
> > things will work out in the end. As I and many
> > others have stated before, we sat and watched
> as
> > decisions were made that hurt SL and helped
> > surrounding schools, so please allow us to hope
> > for some positive action coming our way now.
> We
> > care about our community, just like you.
>
> I think there definitely will be room in the other
> schools, as the recent demographics have shown
> every one of the schools involved trending
> downwards. You take kids out of those schools to
> put into South Lakes and there is an empty seat
> for every kid that left. If kids are not pupil
> placed, it won't be because there are no seats,
> but will be because the county decides to suddenly
> get tough with the issue to keep people at South
> Lakes.
I believe that there has been talk of lowering the cap at Westfield, to keep it from being too big and that will have an impact. I could be wrong, but that is what I have heard.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:31PM
hmmmm07 and CougarMom,
OK, forgive me for being defensive, but this board tends to do that to SL people.
Anyway, I do understand your position and am sorry for your kids. I am relatively new to the area so don't feel that deeply rooted. Hope it works out for you and your kids.
OK, forgive me for being defensive, but this board tends to do that to SL people.
Anyway, I do understand your position and am sorry for your kids. I am relatively new to the area so don't feel that deeply rooted. Hope it works out for you and your kids.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:36PM
SLVerity and hmmmm07,
I don't think it would make sense to be moving kids from Westfield because of overcrowding, then allow them to be pupil placed back to Westfield because there are now empty seats. They must be thinking about lowering the capacity numbers at Westfield.
I don't think it would make sense to be moving kids from Westfield because of overcrowding, then allow them to be pupil placed back to Westfield because there are now empty seats. They must be thinking about lowering the capacity numbers at Westfield.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:39PM
SLPP, that's what I was saying and have read on the County site, that the number at Westfield will be capped down.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 03:39PM by SLVerity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 03:39PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 03:50PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They just may try to overcompensate the number
> of
> > kids to SLHS to make up for all those they will
> > lose to pupil placing and private schools. I
> have
> > spoken to so many neighbors who plan to form
> > carpools to take kids to other schools that
> have
> > AP if we are placed at South Lakes.
> >
> > Looking at this thread, the chances of getting
> AP
> > in place before the kids come in fall of 08 is
> > nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes
> that
> > don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for parents
> > either.
> >
> > Can't imagine all those "good test-takers" are
> > going to be much help to SL when they're taking
> > tests at other schools.
>
>
> Sounds like the American Sign Language and German
> 4,5 and AP classes at Oakton are going to fill up
> quickly the next couple of years! South Lakes
> wants more students so it can offer more classes
> like these, but it will not happen overnight and
> as long as they don't have those classes, people
> will be able to place out of there, keeping the
> enrollment lower than hoped. Vicious circle.
I don't think that placing out is going to be as easy as that. From what I understand, even if the kids who are already in high school are allowed to stay, siblings won't automatically be grandfathered. Correct me someone if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that both principals have to sign off to have a student pupil-placed. If Oakton is overenrolled at all (and I'm sure those books can be cooked), then no room at the inn. I'm sure that some creative parents will find ways to get their kids out of SLHS, but a lot will find it difficult, and the more who try it the harder it will be. Some people may decide this is a good time to move, some will apply to private schools, but I think that most of us need to assume that our safest best, besides avoiding redistricting in the first place, is to get agreements from FCPS and SLHS about solid programs. And don't tell us to go to TJ if our kids are mathies. To paraphrase, the odds there aren't good.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They just may try to overcompensate the number
> of
> > kids to SLHS to make up for all those they will
> > lose to pupil placing and private schools. I
> have
> > spoken to so many neighbors who plan to form
> > carpools to take kids to other schools that
> have
> > AP if we are placed at South Lakes.
> >
> > Looking at this thread, the chances of getting
> AP
> > in place before the kids come in fall of 08 is
> > nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes
> that
> > don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for parents
> > either.
> >
> > Can't imagine all those "good test-takers" are
> > going to be much help to SL when they're taking
> > tests at other schools.
>
>
> Sounds like the American Sign Language and German
> 4,5 and AP classes at Oakton are going to fill up
> quickly the next couple of years! South Lakes
> wants more students so it can offer more classes
> like these, but it will not happen overnight and
> as long as they don't have those classes, people
> will be able to place out of there, keeping the
> enrollment lower than hoped. Vicious circle.
I don't think that placing out is going to be as easy as that. From what I understand, even if the kids who are already in high school are allowed to stay, siblings won't automatically be grandfathered. Correct me someone if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that both principals have to sign off to have a student pupil-placed. If Oakton is overenrolled at all (and I'm sure those books can be cooked), then no room at the inn. I'm sure that some creative parents will find ways to get their kids out of SLHS, but a lot will find it difficult, and the more who try it the harder it will be. Some people may decide this is a good time to move, some will apply to private schools, but I think that most of us need to assume that our safest best, besides avoiding redistricting in the first place, is to get agreements from FCPS and SLHS about solid programs. And don't tell us to go to TJ if our kids are mathies. To paraphrase, the odds there aren't good.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 04:45PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure that it would take as long as some
> think to add AP units.
>
> -South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or 2002.
I believe the announcement was made in spring of 2000 and implemented starting that fall.
>
> -Many teachers are still there who taught AP prior
> to teaching IB.
Many of the AP teachers that my 2000 SL grad had have left. Who did you have in mind?
> -The principal was at an AP school for years prior
> to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid
> understanding of the program.
Bruce was at SL in 1999. Where was he before that and for how long? (I'm still trying to figure out what high school he went to and what sports he played.)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 05:26PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure that it would take as long as some
> think to add AP units.
>
> -South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or 2002.
I believe the announcement was made in spring of 2000 and implemented starting that fall.
>
> -Many teachers are still there who taught AP prior
> to teaching IB.
Many of the AP teachers that my 2000 SL grad had have left. Who did you have in mind?
> -The principal was at an AP school for years prior
> to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid
> understanding of the program.
Bruce was at SL in 1999. Where was he before that and for how long? (I'm still trying to figure out what high school he went to and what sports he played.)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 05:26PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLParent
()
Date: November 08, 2007 05:06PM
Cougarmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To South Lakes Pyramid Parent, what I meant about
> "No Man's Land" is that at this time we do not
> know if or to what school our 8th-grader will be
> redistricted. You are lucky that you know what
> school your child is slated to attend. We do not
> have that same luxury.
>
> My 8th grader wears a cougars sweatshirt to school
> every morning. So, should he wake up one day and
> put on a seahawks one? What to do, what to do....
Cougarman - I understand your point. If I told my 2 SL students they would have to attend Herndon, Oakton or Westfields next year they could call me crazy and probably wear SL sweatshirts to school everyday too (even though I think they already do).
I just wanted everyone to stop talking bad about SL without the proper information. I am very loyal to SL and understand how you could feel the same about your school. I wish for everyone there was a solution.
-------------------------------------------------------
> To South Lakes Pyramid Parent, what I meant about
> "No Man's Land" is that at this time we do not
> know if or to what school our 8th-grader will be
> redistricted. You are lucky that you know what
> school your child is slated to attend. We do not
> have that same luxury.
>
> My 8th grader wears a cougars sweatshirt to school
> every morning. So, should he wake up one day and
> put on a seahawks one? What to do, what to do....
Cougarman - I understand your point. If I told my 2 SL students they would have to attend Herndon, Oakton or Westfields next year they could call me crazy and probably wear SL sweatshirts to school everyday too (even though I think they already do).
I just wanted everyone to stop talking bad about SL without the proper information. I am very loyal to SL and understand how you could feel the same about your school. I wish for everyone there was a solution.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 08, 2007 05:21PM
Actually that's a good point.
There is the possiblity that current South Lakes students could be moved to another school, if they agressively look a the boundaries. Nothing in the study precludes that. How ironic that would be.
There is the possiblity that current South Lakes students could be moved to another school, if they agressively look a the boundaries. Nothing in the study precludes that. How ironic that would be.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 05:39PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not sure that it would take as long as some
> > think to add AP units.
> >
> > -South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or
> 2002.>
> I believe the announcement was made in spring of
> 2000 and implemented starting that fall.
I think that's right.
> >
> > -Many teachers are still there who taught AP
> prior
> > to teaching IB.>
> Many of the AP teachers that my 2000 SL grad had
> have left. Who did you have in mind?
Why do you assume they had to be at SL when your 2000 grad was there in order to have taught AP before? Many teachers who have come into the school since came from backgrounds teaching AP. Most had their IB trainig after coming to SL. Larry Ward, English, was actually there before 2000. A good majority of my childrens' teachers had formerly taught AP. Didn't you say your kids didn't take IB? You may not know the background of those teachers.
>
> > -The principal was at an AP school for years
> prior
> > to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid
> > understanding of the program.
>
> Bruce was at SL in 1999. Where was he before that
> and for how long? (I'm still trying to figure out
> what high school he went to and what sports he
> played.)
Bruce was an AP at Herndon prior to coming to SL, and before that he taught biology at Herndon for many years.
He did indeed attend and graduate from Flint Hill, along with his brother Larry. I have the yearbook pictures to prove it. While there he played baseball and basketball quite well. Please don't ask me to scan and post the pics. You can ask him yourself.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 05:49PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not sure that it would take as long as some
> > think to add AP units.
> >
> > -South Lakes was an AP school until 2001 or
> 2002.>
> I believe the announcement was made in spring of
> 2000 and implemented starting that fall.
I think that's right.
> >
> > -Many teachers are still there who taught AP
> prior
> > to teaching IB.>
> Many of the AP teachers that my 2000 SL grad had
> have left. Who did you have in mind?
Why do you assume they had to be at SL when your 2000 grad was there in order to have taught AP before? Many teachers who have come into the school since came from backgrounds teaching AP. Most had their IB trainig after coming to SL. Larry Ward, English, was actually there before 2000. A good majority of my childrens' teachers had formerly taught AP. Didn't you say your kids didn't take IB? You may not know the background of those teachers.
>
> > -The principal was at an AP school for years
> prior
> > to coming to South Lakes, and thus has a solid
> > understanding of the program.
>
> Bruce was at SL in 1999. Where was he before that
> and for how long? (I'm still trying to figure out
> what high school he went to and what sports he
> played.)
Bruce was an AP at Herndon prior to coming to SL, and before that he taught biology at Herndon for many years.
He did indeed attend and graduate from Flint Hill, along with his brother Larry. I have the yearbook pictures to prove it. While there he played baseball and basketball quite well. Please don't ask me to scan and post the pics. You can ask him yourself.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 05:49PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 08, 2007 05:41PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually that's a good point.
>
> There is the possiblity that current South Lakes
> students could be moved to another school, if they
> agressively look a the boundaries. Nothing in the
> study precludes that. How ironic that would be.
Actually, since part of this fight is wrapped up in the supposedly higher property values of some other school districts, I'm up for that. My kids have graduated and I could use the extra equity;)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually that's a good point.
>
> There is the possiblity that current South Lakes
> students could be moved to another school, if they
> agressively look a the boundaries. Nothing in the
> study precludes that. How ironic that would be.
Actually, since part of this fight is wrapped up in the supposedly higher property values of some other school districts, I'm up for that. My kids have graduated and I could use the extra equity;)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 08, 2007 05:48PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cougarmom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > They just may try to overcompensate the
> number
> > of
> > > kids to SLHS to make up for all those they
> will
> > > lose to pupil placing and private schools. I
> > have
> > > spoken to so many neighbors who plan to form
> > > carpools to take kids to other schools that
> > have
> > > AP if we are placed at South Lakes.
> > >
> > > Looking at this thread, the chances of
> getting
> > AP
> > > in place before the kids come in fall of 08
> is
> > > nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes
> > that
> > > don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for
> parents
> > > either.
> > >
> > > Can't imagine all those "good test-takers"
> are
> > > going to be much help to SL when they're
> taking
> > > tests at other schools.
> >
> >
> > Sounds like the American Sign Language and
> German
> > 4,5 and AP classes at Oakton are going to fill
> up
> > quickly the next couple of years! South Lakes
> > wants more students so it can offer more
> classes
> > like these, but it will not happen overnight
> and
> > as long as they don't have those classes,
> people
> > will be able to place out of there, keeping the
> > enrollment lower than hoped. Vicious circle.
>
>
> I don't think that placing out is going to be as
> easy as that. From what I understand, even if the
> kids who are already in high school are allowed to
> stay, siblings won't automatically be
> grandfathered. Correct me someone if I'm wrong,
> but my understanding is that both principals have
> to sign off to have a student pupil-placed. If
> Oakton is overenrolled at all (and I'm sure those
> books can be cooked), then no room at the inn.
> I'm sure that some creative parents will find ways
> to get their kids out of SLHS, but a lot will find
> it difficult, and the more who try it the harder
> it will be. Some people may decide this is a good
> time to move, some will apply to private schools,
> but I think that most of us need to assume that
> our safest best, besides avoiding redistricting in
> the first place, is to get agreements from FCPS
> and SLHS about solid programs. And don't tell us
> to go to TJ if our kids are mathies. To
> paraphrase, the odds there aren't good.
RIght now, Oakton is "overenrolled" by 25 students. Take Fox Mill and/or Crossfield out and put the small number of Navy kids that don't already go to Oakton into Oakton and you are still way underenrolled. So there will be plenty of seats. Why would Banbury cook any books to keep good students out of Oakton? He wouldn't. His sports programs and music programs are going to suffer big time losses with either of those elementary schools being taken out. If anyone doesn't sign off on a pupil placement, it will be South Lakes, and that will certainly not be very good PR for the school if it is trying to upgrade its image.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cougarmom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > They just may try to overcompensate the
> number
> > of
> > > kids to SLHS to make up for all those they
> will
> > > lose to pupil placing and private schools. I
> > have
> > > spoken to so many neighbors who plan to form
> > > carpools to take kids to other schools that
> > have
> > > AP if we are placed at South Lakes.
> > >
> > > Looking at this thread, the chances of
> getting
> > AP
> > > in place before the kids come in fall of 08
> is
> > > nil. Also, if they only get a few AP classes
> > that
> > > don't overlap IB, that won't cut it for
> parents
> > > either.
> > >
> > > Can't imagine all those "good test-takers"
> are
> > > going to be much help to SL when they're
> taking
> > > tests at other schools.
> >
> >
> > Sounds like the American Sign Language and
> German
> > 4,5 and AP classes at Oakton are going to fill
> up
> > quickly the next couple of years! South Lakes
> > wants more students so it can offer more
> classes
> > like these, but it will not happen overnight
> and
> > as long as they don't have those classes,
> people
> > will be able to place out of there, keeping the
> > enrollment lower than hoped. Vicious circle.
>
>
> I don't think that placing out is going to be as
> easy as that. From what I understand, even if the
> kids who are already in high school are allowed to
> stay, siblings won't automatically be
> grandfathered. Correct me someone if I'm wrong,
> but my understanding is that both principals have
> to sign off to have a student pupil-placed. If
> Oakton is overenrolled at all (and I'm sure those
> books can be cooked), then no room at the inn.
> I'm sure that some creative parents will find ways
> to get their kids out of SLHS, but a lot will find
> it difficult, and the more who try it the harder
> it will be. Some people may decide this is a good
> time to move, some will apply to private schools,
> but I think that most of us need to assume that
> our safest best, besides avoiding redistricting in
> the first place, is to get agreements from FCPS
> and SLHS about solid programs. And don't tell us
> to go to TJ if our kids are mathies. To
> paraphrase, the odds there aren't good.
RIght now, Oakton is "overenrolled" by 25 students. Take Fox Mill and/or Crossfield out and put the small number of Navy kids that don't already go to Oakton into Oakton and you are still way underenrolled. So there will be plenty of seats. Why would Banbury cook any books to keep good students out of Oakton? He wouldn't. His sports programs and music programs are going to suffer big time losses with either of those elementary schools being taken out. If anyone doesn't sign off on a pupil placement, it will be South Lakes, and that will certainly not be very good PR for the school if it is trying to upgrade its image.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 08, 2007 05:52PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity and hmmmm07,
> I don't think it would make sense to be moving
> kids from Westfield because of overcrowding, then
> allow them to be pupil placed back to Westfield
> because there are now empty seats. They must be
> thinking about lowering the capacity numbers at
> Westfield.
They are pretty much forced to lower the capacity numbers at Westfield, because if they don't, there is no reason to move anyone out. They will be at capacity by next year and then continue to shrink until they are a few hundred students under the "current" capacity by 2012. If they don't lower their official capacity numbers, then this entire thing is all about socio-economic mixing and they are not about to put their necks out on just that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity and hmmmm07,
> I don't think it would make sense to be moving
> kids from Westfield because of overcrowding, then
> allow them to be pupil placed back to Westfield
> because there are now empty seats. They must be
> thinking about lowering the capacity numbers at
> Westfield.
They are pretty much forced to lower the capacity numbers at Westfield, because if they don't, there is no reason to move anyone out. They will be at capacity by next year and then continue to shrink until they are a few hundred students under the "current" capacity by 2012. If they don't lower their official capacity numbers, then this entire thing is all about socio-economic mixing and they are not about to put their necks out on just that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 08, 2007 05:56PM
SLParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To South Lakes Pyramid Parent, what I meant
> about
> > "No Man's Land" is that at this time we do not
> > know if or to what school our 8th-grader will
> be
> > redistricted. You are lucky that you know what
> > school your child is slated to attend. We do
> not
> > have that same luxury.
> >
> > My 8th grader wears a cougars sweatshirt to
> school
> > every morning. So, should he wake up one day
> and
> > put on a seahawks one? What to do, what to
> do....
>
> Cougarman - I understand your point. If I told my
> 2 SL students they would have to attend Herndon,
> Oakton or Westfields next year they could call me
> crazy and probably wear SL sweatshirts to school
> everyday too (even though I think they already
> do).
>
> I just wanted everyone to stop talking bad about
> SL without the proper information. I am very
> loyal to SL and understand how you could feel the
> same about your school. I wish for everyone
> there was a solution.
There is a solution. Leave everyone alone and allow people to continue to pupil place into South Lakes for the IB program. Take an academy out of Chantilly to relieve that school since it will truly be the only one over capacity in the next 2 years and everyone gets something. South Lakes fills those seats, Chantilly gets smaller without disrupting the base school for anyone else.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To South Lakes Pyramid Parent, what I meant
> about
> > "No Man's Land" is that at this time we do not
> > know if or to what school our 8th-grader will
> be
> > redistricted. You are lucky that you know what
> > school your child is slated to attend. We do
> not
> > have that same luxury.
> >
> > My 8th grader wears a cougars sweatshirt to
> school
> > every morning. So, should he wake up one day
> and
> > put on a seahawks one? What to do, what to
> do....
>
> Cougarman - I understand your point. If I told my
> 2 SL students they would have to attend Herndon,
> Oakton or Westfields next year they could call me
> crazy and probably wear SL sweatshirts to school
> everyday too (even though I think they already
> do).
>
> I just wanted everyone to stop talking bad about
> SL without the proper information. I am very
> loyal to SL and understand how you could feel the
> same about your school. I wish for everyone
> there was a solution.
There is a solution. Leave everyone alone and allow people to continue to pupil place into South Lakes for the IB program. Take an academy out of Chantilly to relieve that school since it will truly be the only one over capacity in the next 2 years and everyone gets something. South Lakes fills those seats, Chantilly gets smaller without disrupting the base school for anyone else.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nope
()
Date: November 08, 2007 06:22PM
SL does not want an academy.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 06:23PM
I'd been looking for this info and finally tracked it down to share with those on the blog. Historically, each housing type generates a certain ratio of kids per dwelling unit. These are the ratios most schools districts and zoning authorities use. They were developed by demographers and planners doing surveys over the decades. Although, in FFX over the last decade or so, these ratios have predicted a higher enrollment, system-wide, than has actually materialized.
These ratios are helpful in trying to predict the number of kids that the Fields of Herndon or the townhouses at Woodland Park or the high rises around the Monroe Metro stations would generate. As already noted, they are not exact.
I found them under the facilities section of the Schools division by looking at zoning comment letters for different types of development.
Single Family Detached for each house
0.4 kids in K-6
0.071 in 7-8
0.154 in 9-12
Townhouses
0.201 in K-6
0.048 in 7-8
0.102 in 9-12
Garden Apts/Condos etc.
0.170 in K-6
0.034 in 7-8
0.071 in 9-12
High Rise
0.063 K-6
0.011 7-8
0.028 9-12
Thus, 100 high rise units at the Weilhe metro stop will generate 3 kids to SL;
100 Garden apartments in McNair south of the Toll Road will generate 7 to Westfield; and
100 single family homes along Vale Road would generate 15 kids to Oakton.
In addition to the excellent history SLPP related in an earlier post, a lot of which I had forgotten and am grateful for having my memory refreshed, this is part of the reason for South Lakes' lost enrollment and why it will not get it back when and if metro redevelop with lots of high rise apartments.
In order to get 700 kids to add to SL you'd need 25,000 apartment around Weilhe and Reston Pkwy metro. Someone can check but I don't think Reston has 25,000 total dwelling units of all types now. It had 23,320 households according to the 2000 Census. Doubling that number is not in anyone's plans.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 06:57PM by Thomas More.
These ratios are helpful in trying to predict the number of kids that the Fields of Herndon or the townhouses at Woodland Park or the high rises around the Monroe Metro stations would generate. As already noted, they are not exact.
I found them under the facilities section of the Schools division by looking at zoning comment letters for different types of development.
Single Family Detached for each house
0.4 kids in K-6
0.071 in 7-8
0.154 in 9-12
Townhouses
0.201 in K-6
0.048 in 7-8
0.102 in 9-12
Garden Apts/Condos etc.
0.170 in K-6
0.034 in 7-8
0.071 in 9-12
High Rise
0.063 K-6
0.011 7-8
0.028 9-12
Thus, 100 high rise units at the Weilhe metro stop will generate 3 kids to SL;
100 Garden apartments in McNair south of the Toll Road will generate 7 to Westfield; and
100 single family homes along Vale Road would generate 15 kids to Oakton.
In addition to the excellent history SLPP related in an earlier post, a lot of which I had forgotten and am grateful for having my memory refreshed, this is part of the reason for South Lakes' lost enrollment and why it will not get it back when and if metro redevelop with lots of high rise apartments.
In order to get 700 kids to add to SL you'd need 25,000 apartment around Weilhe and Reston Pkwy metro. Someone can check but I don't think Reston has 25,000 total dwelling units of all types now. It had 23,320 households according to the 2000 Census. Doubling that number is not in anyone's plans.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 06:57PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 08, 2007 06:23PM
>
>
> They are pretty much forced to lower the capacity
> numbers at Westfield, because if they don't, there
> is no reason to move anyone out. They will be at
> capacity by next year and then continue to shrink
> until they are a few hundred students under the
> "current" capacity by 2012. If they don't lower
> their official capacity numbers, then this entire
> thing is all about socio-economic mixing and they
> are not about to put their necks out on just that.
And this would come on the coat tails of a recently completed addition that was justified by using the current capacity numbers.
>
> They are pretty much forced to lower the capacity
> numbers at Westfield, because if they don't, there
> is no reason to move anyone out. They will be at
> capacity by next year and then continue to shrink
> until they are a few hundred students under the
> "current" capacity by 2012. If they don't lower
> their official capacity numbers, then this entire
> thing is all about socio-economic mixing and they
> are not about to put their necks out on just that.
And this would come on the coat tails of a recently completed addition that was justified by using the current capacity numbers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 08, 2007 07:04PM
That, Cricket, is one of the many reasons I don't trust the school board. If they were truly looking to balance out numbers that is one thing, but obviously they are not. I feel like they are playing whack-a-mole with us for political reasons.
SLParent, thanks for understanding. Maybe from now until February 28, when the final decision is made, our kids should just walk around with sweatshirts that say "FCPS". Not!
SLParent, thanks for understanding. Maybe from now until February 28, when the final decision is made, our kids should just walk around with sweatshirts that say "FCPS". Not!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 08, 2007 08:33PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > -Many teachers are still there who taught AP
> > prior
> > > to teaching IB.>
> > Many of the AP teachers that my 2000 SL grad
> had
> > have left. Who did you have in mind?
>
> Why do you assume they had to be at SL when your
> 2000 grad was there in order to have taught AP
> before?
Because of the phrase "are still there" which is a thoroughly proper inference.
> Many teachers who have come into the
> school since came from backgrounds teaching AP.
> Most had their IB trainig after coming to SL.
> Larry Ward, English, was actually there before
> 2000. A good majority of my childrens' teachers
> had formerly taught AP.
My college freshman rhetoric and composition professor would have suggested that this concept would have been more readily understood if in the first posting, it had been stated "Many teachers have taught AP before coming to SL and teaching IB"
> Please don't ask me to scan and post the pics.
You're right it won't be necessary but the kids at SL might get a kick out of those scans.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 08:36PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > -Many teachers are still there who taught AP
> > prior
> > > to teaching IB.>
> > Many of the AP teachers that my 2000 SL grad
> had
> > have left. Who did you have in mind?
>
> Why do you assume they had to be at SL when your
> 2000 grad was there in order to have taught AP
> before?
Because of the phrase "are still there" which is a thoroughly proper inference.
> Many teachers who have come into the
> school since came from backgrounds teaching AP.
> Most had their IB trainig after coming to SL.
> Larry Ward, English, was actually there before
> 2000. A good majority of my childrens' teachers
> had formerly taught AP.
My college freshman rhetoric and composition professor would have suggested that this concept would have been more readily understood if in the first posting, it had been stated "Many teachers have taught AP before coming to SL and teaching IB"
> Please don't ask me to scan and post the pics.
You're right it won't be necessary but the kids at SL might get a kick out of those scans.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2007 08:36PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 09, 2007 08:29AM
?Stu Gibson's response to the McNair question:
In response to your question, staff advises that, of the 299 students at McNair who are eligible for free or reduced price lunch, 118 (39%) live north of the Dulles Toll Road, and 181 (61%) live south of the Toll Road. This confirms what I had thought.
In response to your question, staff advises that, of the 299 students at McNair who are eligible for free or reduced price lunch, 118 (39%) live north of the Dulles Toll Road, and 181 (61%) live south of the Toll Road. This confirms what I had thought.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 08:45AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ?Stu Gibson's response to the McNair question:
>
> In response to your question, staff advises that,
> of the 299 students at McNair who are eligible for
> free or reduced price lunch, 118 (39%) live north
> of the Dulles Toll Road, and 181 (61%) live south
> of the Toll Road. This confirms what I had
> thought.
Thanks for your concrete investigative work and for confirming what you, I, Cricket and others thought. I hope we can now put this subject to rest. Hint. Hint. TM.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ?Stu Gibson's response to the McNair question:
>
> In response to your question, staff advises that,
> of the 299 students at McNair who are eligible for
> free or reduced price lunch, 118 (39%) live north
> of the Dulles Toll Road, and 181 (61%) live south
> of the Toll Road. This confirms what I had
> thought.
Thanks for your concrete investigative work and for confirming what you, I, Cricket and others thought. I hope we can now put this subject to rest. Hint. Hint. TM.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 12:03PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for your concrete investigative work and
> for confirming what you, I, Cricket and others
> thought. I hope we can now put this subject to
> rest. Hint. Hint. TM.
Actually not. I'm researching some other info and will be back to you. I actually expected the number to be higher than 181 and am surprised that it is this low.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 12:05PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for your concrete investigative work and
> for confirming what you, I, Cricket and others
> thought. I hope we can now put this subject to
> rest. Hint. Hint. TM.
Actually not. I'm researching some other info and will be back to you. I actually expected the number to be higher than 181 and am surprised that it is this low.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 12:05PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLMadre
()
Date: November 09, 2007 12:43PM
Nope,
Sorry we forgot that this boundary study is all about what SL wants. How could we have been so inconsiderate?
Nevermind the fact that you are displacing hundreds of students who are perfectly happy where they are, but will be forced to your sorry excuse for a FCPS. All because you can't fix your own problems.
Fox Mill to the rescue!!!
Sorry we forgot that this boundary study is all about what SL wants. How could we have been so inconsiderate?
Nevermind the fact that you are displacing hundreds of students who are perfectly happy where they are, but will be forced to your sorry excuse for a FCPS. All because you can't fix your own problems.
Fox Mill to the rescue!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 01:37PM
According to the FCPS latest FAQ sheet, SL is looking into offering AP courses online, for which the student has the pleasure of paying $450 for a year-long course, and $84.00 for the test, of course.
So how well is that going to go over? AP online? I have the kind of kid that works best in a classroom but hey, looks like the board just found their justification for not allowing pupil placement based on the unavailability of AP.
What is freakin next?
So how well is that going to go over? AP online? I have the kind of kid that works best in a classroom but hey, looks like the board just found their justification for not allowing pupil placement based on the unavailability of AP.
What is freakin next?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 09, 2007 01:38PM
Cougarmom,
Can you post the link?
Can you post the link?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 01:47PM
Here it is...
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm
Actually, try to read the whole thing if you can - they've updated their numbers and their explanations to fit their latest scheme.
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm
Actually, try to read the whole thing if you can - they've updated their numbers and their explanations to fit their latest scheme.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 01:50PM
Correction, that's $540.00 for a yearlong course if it's in addition to 7 courses.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 01:56PM
This link will show you all of the approved and pending development that is currently surrounding SL & Westfields, including multi-family and single-family homes. There are at least 4500 new homes surrounding SL alone - where are all these kids going to go to school?
Are these numbers being taken into consideration for redistricting or is the school board going to cross that bridge when they come to it, kind of like what they're doing now?
http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/DullesAreaDevelopment.pdf
Are these numbers being taken into consideration for redistricting or is the school board going to cross that bridge when they come to it, kind of like what they're doing now?
http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/DullesAreaDevelopment.pdf
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLMadre
()
Date: November 09, 2007 02:07PM
And don't forget about the Islamic school in McLean that the county is considering closing. They'll need somewhere to go. SL would be the perfect place since they want to be socially diverse.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLMadre
()
Date: November 09, 2007 02:10PM
Maybe SL could start up a flight school?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 02:21PM
Cougarmom - great find! Everyone should look at the link she posted about the new housing going into the Reston/Herndon area.
This should be brought up at the meeting next week. LOUDLY! Or we will be doing this again shortly,
My take has always been they need to deal with the growth in the McNair/Coppermine area. Looks like there is significant growth in the South Lakes area too.
As an aside - the county is really trashing the area allowing for so many apartment buildings (mulitfamily). We are rapidly going from suburban to urban. And all of the associated problems (crime, decline in schools, decline in real estate values, blight) will follow soon.
This should be brought up at the meeting next week. LOUDLY! Or we will be doing this again shortly,
My take has always been they need to deal with the growth in the McNair/Coppermine area. Looks like there is significant growth in the South Lakes area too.
As an aside - the county is really trashing the area allowing for so many apartment buildings (mulitfamily). We are rapidly going from suburban to urban. And all of the associated problems (crime, decline in schools, decline in real estate values, blight) will follow soon.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 09, 2007 02:47PM
Cougarmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This link will show you all of the approved and
> pending development that is currently surrounding
> SL & Westfields, including multi-family and
> single-family homes. There are at least 4500 new
> homes surrounding SL alone - where are all these
> kids going to go to school?
>
> Are these numbers being taken into consideration
> for redistricting or is the school board going to
> cross that bridge when they come to it, kind of
> like what they're doing now?
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/DullesAreaDevelopment.p
> df
Thank you for this gem. I'll bet the houses close to Rt. 7 will go to Langley, even though they would probably be the ones to boost test scores.
-------------------------------------------------------
> This link will show you all of the approved and
> pending development that is currently surrounding
> SL & Westfields, including multi-family and
> single-family homes. There are at least 4500 new
> homes surrounding SL alone - where are all these
> kids going to go to school?
>
> Are these numbers being taken into consideration
> for redistricting or is the school board going to
> cross that bridge when they come to it, kind of
> like what they're doing now?
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/DullesAreaDevelopment.p
> df
Thank you for this gem. I'll bet the houses close to Rt. 7 will go to Langley, even though they would probably be the ones to boost test scores.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 03:11PM
According to the latest School Division Boundary Study FAQ, the College Board hasn't offered the AP diploma in 4-5 years. FCPS does give out an AP certificate, suitable for framing, no doubt.
Also the AP on-line course charge only applies if the student is already taking 7 courses in regular school day. One of my kids took an on-line course for one of the 7 courses and there was no charge.
If a kid is taking more than 7 courses, they need to get out more.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 03:47PM by Thomas More.
Also the AP on-line course charge only applies if the student is already taking 7 courses in regular school day. One of my kids took an on-line course for one of the 7 courses and there was no charge.
If a kid is taking more than 7 courses, they need to get out more.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 03:47PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 03:33PM
Cougarmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This link will show you all of the approved and
> pending development that is currently surrounding
> SL & Westfields, including multi-family and
> single-family homes. There are at least 4500 new
> homes surrounding SL alone - where are all these
> kids going to go to school?
when the pending, approved and under construction near SL (all are actually north of the Toll Road) are totaled, it equals 3751. I think the difference between our figures is the 586 existing multi-family.
I'm also confused by the term "pending", does that mean the rezoning is under consideration or is the project in site plan review?
Using the projection ratios posted earlier is hard only because we don't know if MF means gardens or high rise but if all of the new MF are high rise, only 105 high schoolers are projected. If all the MF are garden apts, then only 266 are projected. So its somewhere in between.
-------------------------------------------------------
> This link will show you all of the approved and
> pending development that is currently surrounding
> SL & Westfields, including multi-family and
> single-family homes. There are at least 4500 new
> homes surrounding SL alone - where are all these
> kids going to go to school?
when the pending, approved and under construction near SL (all are actually north of the Toll Road) are totaled, it equals 3751. I think the difference between our figures is the 586 existing multi-family.
I'm also confused by the term "pending", does that mean the rezoning is under consideration or is the project in site plan review?
Using the projection ratios posted earlier is hard only because we don't know if MF means gardens or high rise but if all of the new MF are high rise, only 105 high schoolers are projected. If all the MF are garden apts, then only 266 are projected. So its somewhere in between.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 03:36PM
Also noticed that McNair's profile on the FCPS shows 363 free lunch kids in 2006-7. If there are only 299 now, that's a 18% drop in one year!
Too many offensive punch lines jump into my mind.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 03:48PM by Thomas More.
Too many offensive punch lines jump into my mind.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 03:48PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 03:40PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> Thank you for this gem. I'll bet the houses close
> to Rt. 7 will go to Langley
None of these are close to Route 7. All the Westfield developments are south of the Toll Road and all of the South Lakes developments are south of Baron Cameron. All of the pending, approved and under construction are multi-family.
> Thank you for this gem. I'll bet the houses close
> to Rt. 7 will go to Langley
None of these are close to Route 7. All the Westfield developments are south of the Toll Road and all of the South Lakes developments are south of Baron Cameron. All of the pending, approved and under construction are multi-family.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 03:46PM
SLMadre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe SL could start up a flight school?
Thank you Josephine McCarthy. Or is it Josephine Goebbels?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe SL could start up a flight school?
Thank you Josephine McCarthy. Or is it Josephine Goebbels?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 03:57PM
The total of approved, pending and under construction in Westfield east of Centreville Road is 2814, if the 1704 multi-family north of Coppermine are not existing. Again we don't know if they are gardens or high rise but they would generate between 79 and 200 high school kids.
If the 1704 are existing, then these figures fall to 31-78.
The total west of Centreville Road is 4741 and would generate between 132 and 336 high school kids.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 04:33PM by Thomas More.
If the 1704 are existing, then these figures fall to 31-78.
The total west of Centreville Road is 4741 and would generate between 132 and 336 high school kids.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 04:33PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting - AP Diploma
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 03:58PM
The AP Diploma is as meaningless as the FCPS Advanced Diploma. Colleges look at which AP tests students took, and how they did on each test. For that matter, colleges seem to be moving away from their old focus on IB Diplomas and instead are looking more closely at which IB HL courses students took.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 04:06PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are rapidly going from suburban
> to urban. And all of the associated problems
> (crime, decline in schools, decline in real estate
> values, blight) will follow soon.
With a million people already in the County, I think we pasted suburban quite some time ago and the deluge of crime and blight seems not to have overtaken us.
Arlington has an average density of 7300 people per square mile.
Fairfax is 2500 psm and the part of the County in the boundary study is part of the less dense portion of the County.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 04:34PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are rapidly going from suburban
> to urban. And all of the associated problems
> (crime, decline in schools, decline in real estate
> values, blight) will follow soon.
With a million people already in the County, I think we pasted suburban quite some time ago and the deluge of crime and blight seems not to have overtaken us.
Arlington has an average density of 7300 people per square mile.
Fairfax is 2500 psm and the part of the County in the boundary study is part of the less dense portion of the County.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 04:34PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 05:10PM
I think the MF housing will attact the immigrant crowd as they move up the ladder. I think you'll find more and more families with school children living there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 09, 2007 05:13PM
AP or IB mom - from visiting some of the nation's most competitive colleges recently, and looking at their coursebooks and hearing their spiels, I agree with your statements, at least as regards schools with fairly competitive admissions. The schools are looking for challenging coursework, period - and the grades that students get in them. And I might add in terms of accepting college credit, the schools I visited over the weekend in Connecticut and New Jersey do only accept AP credit and do not accept IB credits. Then again, these schools only accept 5's on the AP, and only for a limited number of courses, and are not what you would call places that Fairfax County is in the business of preparing everyone to attend - but nevertheless, for whatever reason, they do seem to favor the AP tests as far as college credit. The most cogent analysis would center around excellent, but more pluralistic places like Virginia Tech and JMU, and in those instances, AP seems, at least anecdotally, favored, at least in terms of college credit, but not, as you indicate, any one way or the other when it comes to admission, which would still be measured on the challenge and holistic achievements of the student.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 05:46PM
I have excellent stats regarding our Virginia higher ed schools here and what they accept as far as standard IB, higher IB & AP. Unfortunately, they're on my office computer so I can't send until Monday. The other stats I posted all came from a StopRd parent, so you can bet, word, that they definetly will be brought up at the meeting.
I believe the County uses 1.2 kids per household to determine how many enter the school system, does anyone know for sure?
I believe the County uses 1.2 kids per household to determine how many enter the school system, does anyone know for sure?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 05:52PM
Cougarmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the County uses 1.2 kids per household
> to determine how many enter the school system,
> does anyone know for sure?
I posted the School system's ratios by housing type yesterday. They range from 0.4 elementary kids per sfd to 0.028 high school kids per high rise.
Stating the total school load per housing type:
SFD 0.625 kids per house
TH 0.351 kids per house
Garden apartments/condo 0.275 kids per unit
High rise 0.102 kids per unit
And these numbers produce projections that are higher than actual enrollment per Gerry Connolly.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 06:24PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the County uses 1.2 kids per household
> to determine how many enter the school system,
> does anyone know for sure?
I posted the School system's ratios by housing type yesterday. They range from 0.4 elementary kids per sfd to 0.028 high school kids per high rise.
Stating the total school load per housing type:
SFD 0.625 kids per house
TH 0.351 kids per house
Garden apartments/condo 0.275 kids per unit
High rise 0.102 kids per unit
And these numbers produce projections that are higher than actual enrollment per Gerry Connolly.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 06:24PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 05:54PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the MF housing will attact the immigrant
> crowd as they move up the ladder. I think you'll
> find more and more families with school children
> living there.
And that conjecture is based on what?
All of these ratios are high based on actual FFX experience.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the MF housing will attact the immigrant
> crowd as they move up the ladder. I think you'll
> find more and more families with school children
> living there.
And that conjecture is based on what?
All of these ratios are high based on actual FFX experience.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 06:07PM
I'm noticing some strange stuff on the map titled "South Lakes H.S. Area Development."
the "560 multi-family pending" that fronts on bluemont was withdrawn according to the County LDN website. That's where M&S Grille and the multi-story parking garage are located. I doubt those users are going anywhere soon.
the "457 multi-family pending" is on the same property as the Oracle office building complex and I can't find a pending application for that property on the County LDN website.
the "1443 multi-family pending" is on the Spectrum retail center running from Best Buy up to Harris Teeter and I can't find a pending application for that property on the County LDN website. Those retailers are on 20 years leases or longer and aren't going anywhere soon.
the "560 multi-family pending" that fronts on bluemont was withdrawn according to the County LDN website. That's where M&S Grille and the multi-story parking garage are located. I doubt those users are going anywhere soon.
the "457 multi-family pending" is on the same property as the Oracle office building complex and I can't find a pending application for that property on the County LDN website.
the "1443 multi-family pending" is on the Spectrum retail center running from Best Buy up to Harris Teeter and I can't find a pending application for that property on the County LDN website. Those retailers are on 20 years leases or longer and aren't going anywhere soon.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 09, 2007 06:11PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
>
> > Thank you for this gem. I'll bet the houses
> close
> > to Rt. 7 will go to Langley
>
> None of these are close to Route 7. All the
> Westfield developments are south of the Toll Road
> and all of the South Lakes developments are south
> of Baron Cameron. All of the pending, approved
> and under construction are multi-family.
Sorry, my bad. I am just so annoyed that Langley isn't included in this process that I was too quick to snarkiness.
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
>
> > Thank you for this gem. I'll bet the houses
> close
> > to Rt. 7 will go to Langley
>
> None of these are close to Route 7. All the
> Westfield developments are south of the Toll Road
> and all of the South Lakes developments are south
> of Baron Cameron. All of the pending, approved
> and under construction are multi-family.
Sorry, my bad. I am just so annoyed that Langley isn't included in this process that I was too quick to snarkiness.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 06:18PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, my bad. I am just so annoyed that Langley
> isn't included in this process that I was too
> quick to snarkiness.
No need to apologize. Most of us have written worse, especially me.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, my bad. I am just so annoyed that Langley
> isn't included in this process that I was too
> quick to snarkiness.
No need to apologize. Most of us have written worse, especially me.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 06:34PM
I'm with you f/c/o parent regarding Langley. The reasons they gave on the FAQ sheet about why they weren't included in the study mentioned something about their special needs population, I believe. But don't all high schools have a similar population? They also state that it has one of the smallest square footages among high schools - well, why don't they just release a portion of their robustly healthy socioecomic students to SL, which has plenty of room? Nevermind, perhaps that would indicate the board was taking fiscal responsibility, which we know is not possible.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 06:59PM
The housing slated for Reston is either around the Reston Town Center (translation: Empty nesters and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted 50+) so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment to redistricting that some were hoping for.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 07:53PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The housing slated for Reston is either around the
> Reston Town Center (translation: Empty nesters
> and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted 50+)
> so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment to
> redistricting that some were hoping for.
If what you say is true, then you can thank Cathy Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from being family-friendly by giving developers the green light to build for those demographics. While you're at it, realize what that does for SL - only compound the need to siphon kids from other districts whose parents have made other choices for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I thought we still lived in America. My bad.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The housing slated for Reston is either around the
> Reston Town Center (translation: Empty nesters
> and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted 50+)
> so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment to
> redistricting that some were hoping for.
If what you say is true, then you can thank Cathy Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from being family-friendly by giving developers the green light to build for those demographics. While you're at it, realize what that does for SL - only compound the need to siphon kids from other districts whose parents have made other choices for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I thought we still lived in America. My bad.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
david
()
Date: November 09, 2007 08:08PM
Cougarmom aka sourpuss wrote: blah, blah ".. giving developers the green light to build for those demographics... Oh, wait, for a minute there I thought we still lived in America. My bad."
You haven't figure it out yet, but those 50+ and DINK demographics are money in the bank for Fairfax County: no demand for service, spend scads of money locally, and dutifully pay taxes. They're the ones paying for the exotic Finno-Ugrian language immersion programs in FCPS that Cougar parents love so much.
You haven't figure it out yet, but those 50+ and DINK demographics are money in the bank for Fairfax County: no demand for service, spend scads of money locally, and dutifully pay taxes. They're the ones paying for the exotic Finno-Ugrian language immersion programs in FCPS that Cougar parents love so much.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 08:22PM
david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They're the ones paying for the exotic
> Finno-Ugrian language immersion programs in FCPS
> that Cougar parents love so much.
Now see, if SL could just get up to 2100 kids, it could have that exotic Finno-Ugrian language immersion program too. ;-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 08:22PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> They're the ones paying for the exotic
> Finno-Ugrian language immersion programs in FCPS
> that Cougar parents love so much.
Now see, if SL could just get up to 2100 kids, it could have that exotic Finno-Ugrian language immersion program too. ;-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 08:22PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 09, 2007 08:40PM
SLMadre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope,
>
> Sorry we forgot that this boundary study is all
> about what SL wants. How could we have been so
> inconsiderate?
>
> Nevermind the fact that you are displacing
> hundreds of students who are perfectly happy where
> they are, but will be forced to your sorry excuse
> for a FCPS. All because you can't fix your own
> problems.
>
> Fox Mill to the rescue!!!
I will not go so far as to call South Lakes a sorry excuse for a school. However, I am beginning to feel as though any possible solutions to an underpopulation issue are being tossed aside in favor of everything working out the way South Lakes wants it to and without regard for the kids who will be told they have to leave their own schools. South Lakes does not want a magnet, they don't want academy classes, they don't want McNair students. They *want the Oakton students. WHY us? Really, most of us don't mind the drive...we knew about the drive when we bought the house. I have made that drive four times a day sometimes in the summer. I'm happy to do it. Those who hate the drive have always had the option to pupil place at South Lakes, but they haven't done so. WHy? Everyone keeps saying how great South Lakes is for their bright students, but I have yet to hear from anyone at South Lakes who has a middle of the road, average student. What is there for them at that school? WHy are there so many coaching positions open?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope,
>
> Sorry we forgot that this boundary study is all
> about what SL wants. How could we have been so
> inconsiderate?
>
> Nevermind the fact that you are displacing
> hundreds of students who are perfectly happy where
> they are, but will be forced to your sorry excuse
> for a FCPS. All because you can't fix your own
> problems.
>
> Fox Mill to the rescue!!!
I will not go so far as to call South Lakes a sorry excuse for a school. However, I am beginning to feel as though any possible solutions to an underpopulation issue are being tossed aside in favor of everything working out the way South Lakes wants it to and without regard for the kids who will be told they have to leave their own schools. South Lakes does not want a magnet, they don't want academy classes, they don't want McNair students. They *want the Oakton students. WHY us? Really, most of us don't mind the drive...we knew about the drive when we bought the house. I have made that drive four times a day sometimes in the summer. I'm happy to do it. Those who hate the drive have always had the option to pupil place at South Lakes, but they haven't done so. WHy? Everyone keeps saying how great South Lakes is for their bright students, but I have yet to hear from anyone at South Lakes who has a middle of the road, average student. What is there for them at that school? WHy are there so many coaching positions open?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 08:57PM
Cougarmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The housing slated for Reston is either around
> the
> > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty nesters
> > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted
> 50+)
> > so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment
> to
> > redistricting that some were hoping for.
>
>
> If what you say is true, then you can thank Cathy
> Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from
> being family-friendly by giving developers the
> green light to build for those demographics. While
> you're at it, realize what that does for SL - only
> compound the need to siphon kids from other
> districts whose parents have made other choices
> for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I thought
> we still lived in America. My bad.
Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please don't be angry with me or try to put this on me. Instead of looking at the number of units being built, look at the square feet of land they will occupy. The land would accomodate about 50 single family homes. These are high-rise units that don't have a very big footprint.
THink about it this way: All of those people pay taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and empty nesters are paying for your kids' education.
Proposal: Why don't we keep all of the tax receipts generated in our pyramid
(from all of the businesses and high-rise dwellers) and that money will just go to the education of students in the South Lakes Pyramid? How does that sound? You can then just fend for yourselves.
For every argument that you present, I can give you a perfectly logical response for why our boundary needs to be widened.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:06PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The housing slated for Reston is either around
> the
> > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty nesters
> > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted
> 50+)
> > so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment
> to
> > redistricting that some were hoping for.
>
>
> If what you say is true, then you can thank Cathy
> Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from
> being family-friendly by giving developers the
> green light to build for those demographics. While
> you're at it, realize what that does for SL - only
> compound the need to siphon kids from other
> districts whose parents have made other choices
> for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I thought
> we still lived in America. My bad.
Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please don't be angry with me or try to put this on me. Instead of looking at the number of units being built, look at the square feet of land they will occupy. The land would accomodate about 50 single family homes. These are high-rise units that don't have a very big footprint.
THink about it this way: All of those people pay taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and empty nesters are paying for your kids' education.
Proposal: Why don't we keep all of the tax receipts generated in our pyramid
(from all of the businesses and high-rise dwellers) and that money will just go to the education of students in the South Lakes Pyramid? How does that sound? You can then just fend for yourselves.
For every argument that you present, I can give you a perfectly logical response for why our boundary needs to be widened.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:06PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 09:07PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> their bright students, but I have yet to hear from
> anyone at South Lakes who has a middle of the
> road, average student. What is there for them at
> that school? WHy are there so many coaching
> positions open?
I would go so far as to say that the parents posting here from SL have average to above average students and I daresay they are getting the same education as your kids. Consider looking at the scores for middle-class kids like yours, not the aggregate scores for the entire school, which include low income and ESL scores.
Perhaps the school has trouble keeping coaches when the teams are so small, or perhaps they just moved, etc. I think that's a great question for Bruce Butler, the principal.
-------------------------------------------------------
> their bright students, but I have yet to hear from
> anyone at South Lakes who has a middle of the
> road, average student. What is there for them at
> that school? WHy are there so many coaching
> positions open?
I would go so far as to say that the parents posting here from SL have average to above average students and I daresay they are getting the same education as your kids. Consider looking at the scores for middle-class kids like yours, not the aggregate scores for the entire school, which include low income and ESL scores.
Perhaps the school has trouble keeping coaches when the teams are so small, or perhaps they just moved, etc. I think that's a great question for Bruce Butler, the principal.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cougarmom
()
Date: November 09, 2007 09:16PM
david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom aka sourpuss wrote: blah, blah "..
> giving developers the green light to build for
> those demographics... Oh, wait, for a minute there
> I thought we still lived in America. My bad."
>
> You haven't figure it out yet, but those 50+
> and DINK demographics are money in the bank for
> Fairfax County: no demand for service, spend scads
> of money locally, and dutifully pay taxes.
> They're the ones paying for the exotic
> Finno-Ugrian language immersion programs in FCPS
> that Cougar parents love so much.
David, get a grip on this subject - first of all, I have to assume that everyone dutifully pays taxes, if not, start another thread (btw, I know what you're really alluding to and that IS another thread). Secondly, we all spend scads of money locally, whether it's to sign up our kids for a zillion programs here or to toss a hundred bucks at the Tap Room on a Friday night. My weekly grocery bill alone would shock the living blank out of you, and yes, I pay a sales tax on that. I have to argue that parents spend way more than singles or older marrieds without kids within the County at that particular stage in their lives. Thirdly, 55+ and singles have no demand for services? Are they all in comas? Because if they're alive and kicking, they are certainly using County services, whether they realize it or not.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom aka sourpuss wrote: blah, blah "..
> giving developers the green light to build for
> those demographics... Oh, wait, for a minute there
> I thought we still lived in America. My bad."
>
> You haven't figure it out yet, but those 50+
> and DINK demographics are money in the bank for
> Fairfax County: no demand for service, spend scads
> of money locally, and dutifully pay taxes.
> They're the ones paying for the exotic
> Finno-Ugrian language immersion programs in FCPS
> that Cougar parents love so much.
David, get a grip on this subject - first of all, I have to assume that everyone dutifully pays taxes, if not, start another thread (btw, I know what you're really alluding to and that IS another thread). Secondly, we all spend scads of money locally, whether it's to sign up our kids for a zillion programs here or to toss a hundred bucks at the Tap Room on a Friday night. My weekly grocery bill alone would shock the living blank out of you, and yes, I pay a sales tax on that. I have to argue that parents spend way more than singles or older marrieds without kids within the County at that particular stage in their lives. Thirdly, 55+ and singles have no demand for services? Are they all in comas? Because if they're alive and kicking, they are certainly using County services, whether they realize it or not.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 09:18PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will not go so far as to call South Lakes a
> sorry excuse for a school. However, I am
> beginning to feel as though any possible solutions
> to an underpopulation issue are being tossed aside
> in favor of everything working out the way South
> Lakes wants it to and without regard for the kids
> who will be told they have to leave their own
> schools. South Lakes does not want a magnet, they
> don't want academy classes, they don't want McNair
> students.
Neither the SL school Administration nor the SL PTA have stated a perferred outcome for this process. Most of the SL affiliated posters have not expressed a preferred out come on this blog. So I don't know what the basis is for "everything works out the way SL wants it to . . ."
> They *want the Oakton students. WHY us?
This SL parent doesn't want any Oakton students. I want Armstong and Aldrin. I haven't read an SL affiliated poster express a desire to have Oakton students transferred to SL.
I have read lots of speculation that the School Board will move Fox Mill students into the SL pyramid but I don't remember reading any advocacy for that outcome.
Most of the posters on this blog have expressed support for grandfathering all current students to their current HS. Many have expressed support for granfathering younger siblings to avoid splitting families between two high schools.
> I have yet to hear from
> anyone at South Lakes who has a middle of the
> road, average student. What is there for them at
> that school?
My experience and that of most parents that I talk to is that FCPS pays attention to the top 10-20% academically and the bottom 10-20% and ignore the middle 60%. I've heard that from Oakton, Herndon, Robinson, Chantilly, Centerville, Lake Braddock, Madison, Marshall and SL parents. This SL parent of 4 kids in the middle certainly has felt that way far too often as I have expressed on this blog more than my SL bretheren would prefer.
> WHy are there so many coaching
> positions open?
Read my earlier posts about our DSA, Linda Jones. That will explain a lot. Chapter 3 of that saga will be posted soon.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will not go so far as to call South Lakes a
> sorry excuse for a school. However, I am
> beginning to feel as though any possible solutions
> to an underpopulation issue are being tossed aside
> in favor of everything working out the way South
> Lakes wants it to and without regard for the kids
> who will be told they have to leave their own
> schools. South Lakes does not want a magnet, they
> don't want academy classes, they don't want McNair
> students.
Neither the SL school Administration nor the SL PTA have stated a perferred outcome for this process. Most of the SL affiliated posters have not expressed a preferred out come on this blog. So I don't know what the basis is for "everything works out the way SL wants it to . . ."
> They *want the Oakton students. WHY us?
This SL parent doesn't want any Oakton students. I want Armstong and Aldrin. I haven't read an SL affiliated poster express a desire to have Oakton students transferred to SL.
I have read lots of speculation that the School Board will move Fox Mill students into the SL pyramid but I don't remember reading any advocacy for that outcome.
Most of the posters on this blog have expressed support for grandfathering all current students to their current HS. Many have expressed support for granfathering younger siblings to avoid splitting families between two high schools.
> I have yet to hear from
> anyone at South Lakes who has a middle of the
> road, average student. What is there for them at
> that school?
My experience and that of most parents that I talk to is that FCPS pays attention to the top 10-20% academically and the bottom 10-20% and ignore the middle 60%. I've heard that from Oakton, Herndon, Robinson, Chantilly, Centerville, Lake Braddock, Madison, Marshall and SL parents. This SL parent of 4 kids in the middle certainly has felt that way far too often as I have expressed on this blog more than my SL bretheren would prefer.
> WHy are there so many coaching
> positions open?
Read my earlier posts about our DSA, Linda Jones. That will explain a lot. Chapter 3 of that saga will be posted soon.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 09, 2007 09:30PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The housing slated for Reston is either
> around
> > the
> > > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty
> nesters
> > > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> > > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted
> > 50+)
> > > so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment
> > to
> > > redistricting that some were hoping for.
> >
> >
> > If what you say is true, then you can thank
> Cathy
> > Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from
> > being family-friendly by giving developers the
> > green light to build for those demographics.
> While
> > you're at it, realize what that does for SL -
> only
> > compound the need to siphon kids from other
> > districts whose parents have made other choices
> > for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I
> thought
> > we still lived in America. My bad.
>
> Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please don't
> be angry with me or try to put this on me. If you
> looked at the number of units per square foot of
> land, you would find that it would be the
> equivalent of about 50 single family homes. These
> are high-rise units that don't have a very big
> footprint.
>
> THink about it this way: all of those people pay
> taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County
> goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and empty
> nesters are paying for your kids education.
>
> Proposal: why don't we keep all of the tax
> receipts generated in our pyramid
> (from all of the businesses and high-rise
> dwellers, and that money will just go to the
> education of students in the South Lakes Pyramid.
> How does that sound? You can then just fend for
> yourselves.
>
> For every argument that you present, I can give
> you a perfectly logical response for why our
> boundary needs to be widened.
Thank you, SLVerity. People here seem to forget we all live in Fairfax County, and our tax money is spread throughout. If we had small school districts here like they have in Pa, and property taxes go directly to your district, SL would probably be the richest school in the county. As it is, we are scrounging to be able to offer all the classes we would like for our kids because of the underenrollment.
The school districts in Pa that don't have a lot of businesses have much higher taxes than surrounding districts with more businesses, and much higher taxes than we have here. So if you all in Oakton were to have to "fix your own problems", as many of you would have South Lakes do, you all would have much higher taxes. Come to think of it, we'd have much lower taxes if we didn't have to support you.
And Cougarmom, you don't seriously think that the 55+ crowd demands as many services as families with kids, do you? The schools alone make up much of the budget.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:09PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The housing slated for Reston is either
> around
> > the
> > > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty
> nesters
> > > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> > > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted
> > 50+)
> > > so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment
> > to
> > > redistricting that some were hoping for.
> >
> >
> > If what you say is true, then you can thank
> Cathy
> > Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from
> > being family-friendly by giving developers the
> > green light to build for those demographics.
> While
> > you're at it, realize what that does for SL -
> only
> > compound the need to siphon kids from other
> > districts whose parents have made other choices
> > for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I
> thought
> > we still lived in America. My bad.
>
> Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please don't
> be angry with me or try to put this on me. If you
> looked at the number of units per square foot of
> land, you would find that it would be the
> equivalent of about 50 single family homes. These
> are high-rise units that don't have a very big
> footprint.
>
> THink about it this way: all of those people pay
> taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County
> goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and empty
> nesters are paying for your kids education.
>
> Proposal: why don't we keep all of the tax
> receipts generated in our pyramid
> (from all of the businesses and high-rise
> dwellers, and that money will just go to the
> education of students in the South Lakes Pyramid.
> How does that sound? You can then just fend for
> yourselves.
>
> For every argument that you present, I can give
> you a perfectly logical response for why our
> boundary needs to be widened.
Thank you, SLVerity. People here seem to forget we all live in Fairfax County, and our tax money is spread throughout. If we had small school districts here like they have in Pa, and property taxes go directly to your district, SL would probably be the richest school in the county. As it is, we are scrounging to be able to offer all the classes we would like for our kids because of the underenrollment.
The school districts in Pa that don't have a lot of businesses have much higher taxes than surrounding districts with more businesses, and much higher taxes than we have here. So if you all in Oakton were to have to "fix your own problems", as many of you would have South Lakes do, you all would have much higher taxes. Come to think of it, we'd have much lower taxes if we didn't have to support you.
And Cougarmom, you don't seriously think that the 55+ crowd demands as many services as families with kids, do you? The schools alone make up much of the budget.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:09PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 09:55PM
Dittos, SLPP. I notice that when Cougarmom wants to kick back on a Friday night she avails herself of one of the wonderful restaurants in the Reston Town Center. It's a good thing she doesn't have to rely on FF Shopping Center for her nights out.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:05PM
SL Serial Posters - Any Oakton person knows Fairfax Towne Center is the place to go.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:10PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Serial Posters - Any Oakton person knows
> Fairfax Towne Center is the place to go.
Oakton Serial Poster - Apparently not Cougarmom. FFX TC is a cheap imitation of RTC;), but the movie theater is better.
BTW, maybe we'll end up in the same discussion group on Monday. Lively repartee!
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Serial Posters - Any Oakton person knows
> Fairfax Towne Center is the place to go.
Oakton Serial Poster - Apparently not Cougarmom. FFX TC is a cheap imitation of RTC;), but the movie theater is better.
BTW, maybe we'll end up in the same discussion group on Monday. Lively repartee!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:14PM
SLV,
Agreed. Definitely better theatre at FFX TC--can't beat stadium seating. But we still like Reston Town Center better for the overall vibe-- more like a "real" town atmosphere.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:17PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Agreed. Definitely better theatre at FFX TC--can't beat stadium seating. But we still like Reston Town Center better for the overall vibe-- more like a "real" town atmosphere.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:17PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:20PM
I am finding the SL posts increasingly nausiating...
I see your objections to McNair, no different than our (anyone outside your cabal) objections to South Lakes.
Should we be concerned about the number of free lunches at South Lakes?
Should we be concerned about the amount of low income housing?
Should we be sending scouts out to look at neighborhoods?
I see your objections to McNair, no different than our (anyone outside your cabal) objections to South Lakes.
Should we be concerned about the number of free lunches at South Lakes?
Should we be concerned about the amount of low income housing?
Should we be sending scouts out to look at neighborhoods?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:30PM
Is this going to be another long reply? Learn how to say it more concisely.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:35PM
Word,
I thought you were concerned about the free lunches at SL. Isn;t that what all this anti-redistricting is really about?
I thought you were concerned about the free lunches at SL. Isn;t that what all this anti-redistricting is really about?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:43PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am finding the SL posts increasingly
> nausiating...
Word, I am sad that you find our posts nauseating, and just when I was starting to like you...and was being nice to you, too.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am finding the SL posts increasingly
> nausiating...
Word, I am sad that you find our posts nauseating, and just when I was starting to like you...and was being nice to you, too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:43PM
> I thought you were concerned about the free lunches at SL. Isn;t that what all this anti-redistricting is really about?
I don't think that's everything it's about, but it's part of it.
So if the answer is YES we should be concerned...
- Then it is understandable why you don't want McNair and understandable why we don't want South Lakes.
And, if the answer is NO we should not be concerned...
- Then you should be OK bringing in McNair, and we shouldn't mind going to South Lakes.
You tell me, which it is. I am just saying the "high and mighty" SL crowd is no different than the rest of us. We want what is best for our kids.
I don't think that's everything it's about, but it's part of it.
So if the answer is YES we should be concerned...
- Then it is understandable why you don't want McNair and understandable why we don't want South Lakes.
And, if the answer is NO we should not be concerned...
- Then you should be OK bringing in McNair, and we shouldn't mind going to South Lakes.
You tell me, which it is. I am just saying the "high and mighty" SL crowd is no different than the rest of us. We want what is best for our kids.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:47PM
Word:
No such thing as free lunch.
Not sure why you are nauseated. (Neen ceased the Initial Caps and ALL CAPS posts).
Several SLHS posters have indicated that taking McNair S of Toll Road would work.
What might concern you about low income housing? Elaborate.
If you plan to send scouts, we will provide passwords to ensure safety in danger zones.
No such thing as free lunch.
Not sure why you are nauseated. (Neen ceased the Initial Caps and ALL CAPS posts).
Several SLHS posters have indicated that taking McNair S of Toll Road would work.
What might concern you about low income housing? Elaborate.
If you plan to send scouts, we will provide passwords to ensure safety in danger zones.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:49PM
Seriously, Word, we already shoulder the burden of enough low income student population in this area. Just how much more do you want we 'high and mighty' to bear?
Why so testy tonight? We were just having a little fun.
Why so testy tonight? We were just having a little fun.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:53PM
It doesn't really matter what anyone wants because Stu Gibson, Janie, and Kathy have already decided what you will get. Community meetings will explain to you why you can't have what you want, why only their solution will work.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:57PM
Neen, Neen..don't be so cynical. You should show up at the meetings and make your views known.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:59PM by SLVerity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 10:59PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 10:59PM
Not testy, just pointed.
My take is - Answering the question requires you to think about the other side of the equation.
My take is - Answering the question requires you to think about the other side of the equation.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:03PM
I think we've already answered from both sides many times, and have also expressed empathy with the concerns of others.
If I sound Cavalier, it's because my kids had a fine experience at South Lakes, and I know how good it can be and how much better it will be, regardless of the outcome of these meetings and plans.
If I sound Cavalier, it's because my kids had a fine experience at South Lakes, and I know how good it can be and how much better it will be, regardless of the outcome of these meetings and plans.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:13PM
Exactly, SLVerity.
Most SLHS posters have focused on rebutting assertions about the school and community, and on trying to make the case for what the school and community really are. So, hopefully, people who have concerns and questions can make up their own minds, based on a broad range of information and perspectives.
Most SLHS posters have focused on rebutting assertions about the school and community, and on trying to make the case for what the school and community really are. So, hopefully, people who have concerns and questions can make up their own minds, based on a broad range of information and perspectives.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:15PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I sound Cavalier, it's because my kids
went to Mr. Jefferson's country club. Yeah, we got the pun.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I sound Cavalier, it's because my kids
went to Mr. Jefferson's country club. Yeah, we got the pun.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:16PM
Thanks for the input, mi padre. I'm glad you are on our team.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:17PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I sound Cavalier, it's because my kids
>
> went to Mr. Jefferson's country club. Yeah, we
> got the pun.
That was not intentional, but inadvertently funny, if I do say so myself!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 11:32PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I sound Cavalier, it's because my kids
>
> went to Mr. Jefferson's country club. Yeah, we
> got the pun.
That was not intentional, but inadvertently funny, if I do say so myself!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2007 11:32PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
book worm
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:18PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The housing slated for Reston is either
> around
> > the
> > > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty
> nesters
> > > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> > > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted
> > 50+)
> > > so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment
> > to
> > > redistricting that some were hoping for.
> >
> >
> > If what you say is true, then you can thank
> Cathy
> > Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from
> > being family-friendly by giving developers the
> > green light to build for those demographics.
> While
> > you're at it, realize what that does for SL -
> only
> > compound the need to siphon kids from other
> > districts whose parents have made other choices
> > for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I
> thought
> > we still lived in America. My bad.
>
> Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please don't
> be angry with me or try to put this on me.
> Instead of looking at the number of units being
> built, look at the square feet of land they will
> occupy. The land would accomodate about 50 single
> family homes. These are high-rise units that
> don't have a very big footprint.
>
> THink about it this way: All of those people pay
> taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County
> goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and empty
> nesters are paying for your kids' education.
>
> Proposal: Why don't we keep all of the tax
> receipts generated in our pyramid
> (from all of the businesses and high-rise
> dwellers) and that money will just go to the
> education of students in the South Lakes Pyramid?
> How does that sound? You can then just fend for
> yourselves.
>
> For every argument that you present, I can give
> you a perfectly logical response for why our
> boundary needs to be widened.
Well that is not one (logical respons) of them you idiot. South lakes sucks and we will not go there, i'll pay ten grand a year to avoid that plague. I'll say what everyone else wants to say,everyone from west/chan/oakton/herndon. we are NOT sending our kids there. we will suck up the loss in property value to our homes if this takes place but we WILL also pay to avoid SLHS. Are you happy now you heard from me and there are hundreds more that will be doing the same. Fill your school some other way but leave us the *&^% alone.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cougarmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The housing slated for Reston is either
> around
> > the
> > > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty
> nesters
> > > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or near
> > > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age restricted
> > 50+)
> > > so I don't think that's the Plan B impediment
> > to
> > > redistricting that some were hoping for.
> >
> >
> > If what you say is true, then you can thank
> Cathy
> > Hudgins from keeping your Reston community from
> > being family-friendly by giving developers the
> > green light to build for those demographics.
> While
> > you're at it, realize what that does for SL -
> only
> > compound the need to siphon kids from other
> > districts whose parents have made other choices
> > for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I
> thought
> > we still lived in America. My bad.
>
> Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please don't
> be angry with me or try to put this on me.
> Instead of looking at the number of units being
> built, look at the square feet of land they will
> occupy. The land would accomodate about 50 single
> family homes. These are high-rise units that
> don't have a very big footprint.
>
> THink about it this way: All of those people pay
> taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County
> goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and empty
> nesters are paying for your kids' education.
>
> Proposal: Why don't we keep all of the tax
> receipts generated in our pyramid
> (from all of the businesses and high-rise
> dwellers) and that money will just go to the
> education of students in the South Lakes Pyramid?
> How does that sound? You can then just fend for
> yourselves.
>
> For every argument that you present, I can give
> you a perfectly logical response for why our
> boundary needs to be widened.
Well that is not one (logical respons) of them you idiot. South lakes sucks and we will not go there, i'll pay ten grand a year to avoid that plague. I'll say what everyone else wants to say,everyone from west/chan/oakton/herndon. we are NOT sending our kids there. we will suck up the loss in property value to our homes if this takes place but we WILL also pay to avoid SLHS. Are you happy now you heard from me and there are hundreds more that will be doing the same. Fill your school some other way but leave us the *&^% alone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:20PM
I don't think the question has been answered from either side.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:22PM
book worm - your answer does not count
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:25PM
Glad you won't be coming Bookworm. You might want to use some of that money for a remedial writing class.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:27PM
Word, if all of the strawmen arguments for not coming to SL are removed, what will your answer be. Will you willingly come? Or will you follow bookworm?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:49PM
I think it is perfectly acceptable for a parent to resist changes in their childs school environment that they believe would not be in their best interest.
So I would say YES (we should be concerned about free-lunches, and low income housting, etc):
- I am OK with SL parents saying putting McNair in South Lakes would not be in the best interest of their kids education.
- And I am OK with non-SL parents saying redistricting their kids to SL is not in the best interest of their kids education.
I believe both are true. If we were redistricted to SL, we would go and make the most of it. But that doesn't mean we won't put up a fight. I would expect you would do the same if McNair is sent to South Lakes.
So I would say YES (we should be concerned about free-lunches, and low income housting, etc):
- I am OK with SL parents saying putting McNair in South Lakes would not be in the best interest of their kids education.
- And I am OK with non-SL parents saying redistricting their kids to SL is not in the best interest of their kids education.
I believe both are true. If we were redistricted to SL, we would go and make the most of it. But that doesn't mean we won't put up a fight. I would expect you would do the same if McNair is sent to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 09, 2007 11:54PM
>>>i'll pay ten grand a year to avoid that plague<<<
What will 10,000 a year get you?
What will 10,000 a year get you?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:13AM
>>>Neen, Neen..don't be so cynical. You should show up at the meetings and make your views known.<<<
Since I don't live in any of the effected areas, I don't think I should go to any meetings or express my opinions. The point of the meetings is to convince the community that what Stu (with Janie and Kathy consents) wants to do is the best way to do it. I know because I've been through this twice before. That's how it works. That's how public hearings, or community meetings, or whatever any government entity calls, always work, not just for schools, but any public changes. They pretend to listen, so the community feels like they've had input and have been heard, but in the end, they do what they planned to do from the beginning. If Stu, Janie, and Kathy hadn't already planned the changes, we wouldn't be about to begin the community meetings. There may be a few, tiny, changes in their plan, but nothing big. Of course if it's your neighborhood, it's not a small difference.
For those of you who are determined not to send your children to South Lakes, apply to private schools NOW. Do NOT wait until after the decision is final in February. For many private schools, that will be too late. Apply now and if you don't need the placement, you will only have lost the application fees. Remember Janie, Stu and Kathy just got re elected, they have NO incentive to do anything that the community wants, including grandfathering. Take that into consideration when you make your plans for next year. There are NO guarantees of anything.
I would ask all of you to remember that little you say will matter. Don't get angry at each other, don't fight with your friends and neighbors. I've known people who never spoke again over boundary disagreements. In the end, it didn't matter, the original plan was adopted, but the friendships had already ended. Don't let that happen. Try to remember that it really won't matter what you say or do. Staff and school board have already decided, don't lose friends over trying to change an outcome that you cannot alter.
Since I don't live in any of the effected areas, I don't think I should go to any meetings or express my opinions. The point of the meetings is to convince the community that what Stu (with Janie and Kathy consents) wants to do is the best way to do it. I know because I've been through this twice before. That's how it works. That's how public hearings, or community meetings, or whatever any government entity calls, always work, not just for schools, but any public changes. They pretend to listen, so the community feels like they've had input and have been heard, but in the end, they do what they planned to do from the beginning. If Stu, Janie, and Kathy hadn't already planned the changes, we wouldn't be about to begin the community meetings. There may be a few, tiny, changes in their plan, but nothing big. Of course if it's your neighborhood, it's not a small difference.
For those of you who are determined not to send your children to South Lakes, apply to private schools NOW. Do NOT wait until after the decision is final in February. For many private schools, that will be too late. Apply now and if you don't need the placement, you will only have lost the application fees. Remember Janie, Stu and Kathy just got re elected, they have NO incentive to do anything that the community wants, including grandfathering. Take that into consideration when you make your plans for next year. There are NO guarantees of anything.
I would ask all of you to remember that little you say will matter. Don't get angry at each other, don't fight with your friends and neighbors. I've known people who never spoke again over boundary disagreements. In the end, it didn't matter, the original plan was adopted, but the friendships had already ended. Don't let that happen. Try to remember that it really won't matter what you say or do. Staff and school board have already decided, don't lose friends over trying to change an outcome that you cannot alter.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:17AM
Word said,
>>>If we were redistricted to SL, we would go and make the most of it<<< You are THE FIRST parent I have heard say that. Is that because you are fairly sure that you won't have to go to South Lakes? Or you didn't buy your house with schools in mind? Just wondering why you are so accepting of going to South Lakes when no one else is.
>>>If we were redistricted to SL, we would go and make the most of it<<< You are THE FIRST parent I have heard say that. Is that because you are fairly sure that you won't have to go to South Lakes? Or you didn't buy your house with schools in mind? Just wondering why you are so accepting of going to South Lakes when no one else is.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:49AM
...just separating rhetoric from reality
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:08AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answering the question requires you
> to think about the other side of the equation.
Try this:
FCPS is one school division. While it has 25 high schools, the attendance areas of those high schools do not constitute separate school districts.
20% of FCPS students receive free or subsidized lunch.
13% of FCPS students are in ESOL.
If a school’s population does not reflect these percentages, than its children are receiving a disproportionate share of the instructional resources of the School division because the teachers and administrators of that school do not have to deal with the extra demands of these challenged populations.
Those schools that exceed those County averages bear a disproportionate share of the burden of these challenged populations. And the kids who pay the price for these disproportionate burdens are the 60% in the middle.
South Lakes has 33% free lunch and 16% ESOL. It is past time to reduce these burdens.
Oakton has only 11% free lunch kids. It’s past time for it to pull its fair share of FCPS' burden.
Chantilly has only 11% free lunch and 9% ESOL. It’s past time for it to pull its fair share of FCPS' burdens.
Langley has only 1% free lunch and 3% ESOL Shouldn’t it be part of this burden shifting. How can it not?
FFX taxpayers are disproportionately subsidizing the kid’s education at Langley, Oakton and Chantilly to the detriment of kids at South Lakes and Herndon that meet or exceed these percentages.
How can any person justify continuing this inequality?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answering the question requires you
> to think about the other side of the equation.
Try this:
FCPS is one school division. While it has 25 high schools, the attendance areas of those high schools do not constitute separate school districts.
20% of FCPS students receive free or subsidized lunch.
13% of FCPS students are in ESOL.
If a school’s population does not reflect these percentages, than its children are receiving a disproportionate share of the instructional resources of the School division because the teachers and administrators of that school do not have to deal with the extra demands of these challenged populations.
Those schools that exceed those County averages bear a disproportionate share of the burden of these challenged populations. And the kids who pay the price for these disproportionate burdens are the 60% in the middle.
South Lakes has 33% free lunch and 16% ESOL. It is past time to reduce these burdens.
Oakton has only 11% free lunch kids. It’s past time for it to pull its fair share of FCPS' burden.
Chantilly has only 11% free lunch and 9% ESOL. It’s past time for it to pull its fair share of FCPS' burdens.
Langley has only 1% free lunch and 3% ESOL Shouldn’t it be part of this burden shifting. How can it not?
FFX taxpayers are disproportionately subsidizing the kid’s education at Langley, Oakton and Chantilly to the detriment of kids at South Lakes and Herndon that meet or exceed these percentages.
How can any person justify continuing this inequality?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Mr. America
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:51AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>
> South Lakes has 33% free lunch and 16% ESOL. It
> is past time to reduce these burdens.
>
> Oakton has only 11% free lunch kids. It’s past
> time for it to pull its fair share of FCPS'
> burden.
>
> Chantilly has only 11% free lunch and 9% ESOL.
> It’s past time for it to pull its fair share of
> FCPS' burdens.
>
> Langley has only 1% free lunch and 3% ESOL
> Shouldn’t it be part of this burden shifting. How
> can it not?
I guess parent(s) in Oakton,Chantilly and Langley school districts work adn tehy speak English. What a concept work to support your family and speak the language of the country one lives in.
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>
> South Lakes has 33% free lunch and 16% ESOL. It
> is past time to reduce these burdens.
>
> Oakton has only 11% free lunch kids. It’s past
> time for it to pull its fair share of FCPS'
> burden.
>
> Chantilly has only 11% free lunch and 9% ESOL.
> It’s past time for it to pull its fair share of
> FCPS' burdens.
>
> Langley has only 1% free lunch and 3% ESOL
> Shouldn’t it be part of this burden shifting. How
> can it not?
I guess parent(s) in Oakton,Chantilly and Langley school districts work adn tehy speak English. What a concept work to support your family and speak the language of the country one lives in.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:52AM
TM - why do you think people buy their homes where they do?
THese are neighborhood schools, if you don't like your neighborhood, then move.
THese are neighborhood schools, if you don't like your neighborhood, then move.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 07:09AM
THe demographic thing is a hollow argument. Shuffling lines a little bit doesn't make enough of a change in the surrounding neighborhoods to significantly change the underlying situation. Here's the math:
If South Lakes has 33% free lunch kids, then that's about 485 today out of 1450 kids. Say we add 500 kids to the mix (in round numbers), and say there are zero free lunch kids in there (not sure how we do that, but let's say we do).
Now we have 485 / 1950 kids getting free lunch. That's still about 25%. In other words, we went through the whole redistricting process, and the south lakes percentage went from 33% to 25%. And sure, you can say "every little bit helps", but does it, really? All those poor kids we had before are STILL THERE. We have just padded the numbers with kids clamoring for AP classes and economics.
On the other end of the scale, if Chantilly has 11% free lunch, that's about 300 out of 2800. If we removed 500 students with no free lunch to send to South Lakes, then we are left with 300 / 2300, or about 13%. Again, is Chantilly with 13% free lunch kids noticably different from Chantilly with 11%? It's still half of South Lakes.
(Keep in mind that you won't find the zero free lunch situation in the wild, the percentages will change even less than this. South lakes will have MORE free lunch kids after redistricting, not less.)
If you really care about this, you would have to recommend moving 250 poor kids from South Lakes to Langley. :)
If South Lakes has 33% free lunch kids, then that's about 485 today out of 1450 kids. Say we add 500 kids to the mix (in round numbers), and say there are zero free lunch kids in there (not sure how we do that, but let's say we do).
Now we have 485 / 1950 kids getting free lunch. That's still about 25%. In other words, we went through the whole redistricting process, and the south lakes percentage went from 33% to 25%. And sure, you can say "every little bit helps", but does it, really? All those poor kids we had before are STILL THERE. We have just padded the numbers with kids clamoring for AP classes and economics.
On the other end of the scale, if Chantilly has 11% free lunch, that's about 300 out of 2800. If we removed 500 students with no free lunch to send to South Lakes, then we are left with 300 / 2300, or about 13%. Again, is Chantilly with 13% free lunch kids noticably different from Chantilly with 11%? It's still half of South Lakes.
(Keep in mind that you won't find the zero free lunch situation in the wild, the percentages will change even less than this. South lakes will have MORE free lunch kids after redistricting, not less.)
If you really care about this, you would have to recommend moving 250 poor kids from South Lakes to Langley. :)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
futureSL
()
Date: November 10, 2007 07:14AM
The Elementary schools may be 'neighborhood schools', but the High Schools (at least in FFCS) most certainly are not. And as the point was made earlier, the funding for schools comes from FFC as a whole, it is not broken up by 'high-school area'.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 10, 2007 07:38AM
So everyone is prepared to come to the Town Hall with their own plan to throw their neighbors under the bus....
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 08:09AM
How does that joke end? I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outun you
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 08:18AM
book worm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cougarmom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SLVerity Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > The housing slated for Reston is either
> > around
> > > the
> > > > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty
> > nesters
> > > > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or
> near
> > > > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age
> restricted
> > > 50+)
> > > > so I don't think that's the Plan B
> impediment
> > > to
> > > > redistricting that some were hoping for.
> > >
> > >
> > > If what you say is true, then you can thank
> > Cathy
> > > Hudgins from keeping your Reston community
> from
> > > being family-friendly by giving developers
> the
> > > green light to build for those demographics.
> > While
> > > you're at it, realize what that does for SL -
> > only
> > > compound the need to siphon kids from other
> > > districts whose parents have made other
> choices
> > > for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I
> > thought
> > > we still lived in America. My bad.
> >
> > Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please
> don't
> > be angry with me or try to put this on me.
> > Instead of looking at the number of units being
> > built, look at the square feet of land they
> will
> > occupy. The land would accomodate about 50
> single
> > family homes. These are high-rise units that
> > don't have a very big footprint.
> >
> > THink about it this way: All of those people
> pay
> > taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County
> > goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and
> empty
> > nesters are paying for your kids' education.
> >
> > Proposal: Why don't we keep all of the tax
> > receipts generated in our pyramid
> > (from all of the businesses and high-rise
> > dwellers) and that money will just go to the
> > education of students in the South Lakes
> Pyramid?
> > How does that sound? You can then just fend
> for
> > yourselves.
> >
> > For every argument that you present, I can give
> > you a perfectly logical response for why our
> > boundary needs to be widened.
>
>
> Well that is not one (logical respons) of them you
> idiot. South lakes sucks and we will not go
> there, i'll pay ten grand a year to avoid that
> plague. I'll say what everyone else wants to
> say,everyone from west/chan/oakton/herndon. we are
> NOT sending our kids there. we will suck up the
> loss in property value to our homes if this takes
> place but we WILL also pay to avoid SLHS. Are you
> happy now you heard from me and there are hundreds
> more that will be doing the same. Fill your
> school some other way but leave us the *&^% alone.
Hey, I don't want my kids to have to move either, but you are certainly not saying what "everyone else wants to say." You aren't doing a whole lot to support the case for keeping kids where they are. Then again, maybe you are just a troll trying to start something that doesn't need to be started at this point.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cougarmom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SLVerity Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > The housing slated for Reston is either
> > around
> > > the
> > > > Reston Town Center (translation: Empty
> > nesters
> > > > and singles/young marrieds w/no kids) or
> near
> > > > Hunters Woods Shopping Center (age
> restricted
> > > 50+)
> > > > so I don't think that's the Plan B
> impediment
> > > to
> > > > redistricting that some were hoping for.
> > >
> > >
> > > If what you say is true, then you can thank
> > Cathy
> > > Hudgins from keeping your Reston community
> from
> > > being family-friendly by giving developers
> the
> > > green light to build for those demographics.
> > While
> > > you're at it, realize what that does for SL -
> > only
> > > compound the need to siphon kids from other
> > > districts whose parents have made other
> choices
> > > for them. Oh, wait, for a minute there I
> > thought
> > > we still lived in America. My bad.
> >
> > Cougarmom, I know you are upset, but please
> don't
> > be angry with me or try to put this on me.
> > Instead of looking at the number of units being
> > built, look at the square feet of land they
> will
> > occupy. The land would accomodate about 50
> single
> > family homes. These are high-rise units that
> > don't have a very big footprint.
> >
> > THink about it this way: All of those people
> pay
> > taxes and 50% of the budget for Fairfax County
> > goes to FCPS, so in effect, these single and
> empty
> > nesters are paying for your kids' education.
> >
> > Proposal: Why don't we keep all of the tax
> > receipts generated in our pyramid
> > (from all of the businesses and high-rise
> > dwellers) and that money will just go to the
> > education of students in the South Lakes
> Pyramid?
> > How does that sound? You can then just fend
> for
> > yourselves.
> >
> > For every argument that you present, I can give
> > you a perfectly logical response for why our
> > boundary needs to be widened.
>
>
> Well that is not one (logical respons) of them you
> idiot. South lakes sucks and we will not go
> there, i'll pay ten grand a year to avoid that
> plague. I'll say what everyone else wants to
> say,everyone from west/chan/oakton/herndon. we are
> NOT sending our kids there. we will suck up the
> loss in property value to our homes if this takes
> place but we WILL also pay to avoid SLHS. Are you
> happy now you heard from me and there are hundreds
> more that will be doing the same. Fill your
> school some other way but leave us the *&^% alone.
Hey, I don't want my kids to have to move either, but you are certainly not saying what "everyone else wants to say." You aren't doing a whole lot to support the case for keeping kids where they are. Then again, maybe you are just a troll trying to start something that doesn't need to be started at this point.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
veritysproxy
()
Date: November 10, 2007 09:37AM
Neen -
For the millionth time: It is affected, not effected. Read more and you'll spell as well as my kid, who is headed to South Lakes.
Also, and more generally: shut up the eff up already.
And to the person who said they'll pay $10,000 to avoid South Lakes, I hope that's for homeschooling supplies. Flint Hill is about $23,000, and also doesn't have very many openings at the HS level.
For the millionth time: It is affected, not effected. Read more and you'll spell as well as my kid, who is headed to South Lakes.
Also, and more generally: shut up the eff up already.
And to the person who said they'll pay $10,000 to avoid South Lakes, I hope that's for homeschooling supplies. Flint Hill is about $23,000, and also doesn't have very many openings at the HS level.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:17AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is perfectly acceptable for a parent to
> resist changes in their childs school environment
> that they believe would not be in their best
> interest.
>
> So I would say YES (we should be concerned about
> free-lunches, and low income housting, etc):
> - I am OK with SL parents saying putting McNair in
> South Lakes would not be in the best interest of
> their kids education.
> - And I am OK with non-SL parents saying
> redistricting their kids to SL is not in the best
> interest of their kids education.
>
> I believe both are true. If we were redistricted
> to SL, we would go and make the most of it. But
> that doesn't mean we won't put up a fight. I would
> expect you would do the same if McNair is sent to
> South Lakes.
Word, totally agree with you.
But you have to admit that many here posted extremely hostile and bigotted things about SL without really knowing the facts or even asking SL parents what the real story is.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is perfectly acceptable for a parent to
> resist changes in their childs school environment
> that they believe would not be in their best
> interest.
>
> So I would say YES (we should be concerned about
> free-lunches, and low income housting, etc):
> - I am OK with SL parents saying putting McNair in
> South Lakes would not be in the best interest of
> their kids education.
> - And I am OK with non-SL parents saying
> redistricting their kids to SL is not in the best
> interest of their kids education.
>
> I believe both are true. If we were redistricted
> to SL, we would go and make the most of it. But
> that doesn't mean we won't put up a fight. I would
> expect you would do the same if McNair is sent to
> South Lakes.
Word, totally agree with you.
But you have to admit that many here posted extremely hostile and bigotted things about SL without really knowing the facts or even asking SL parents what the real story is.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:24AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM - why do you think people buy their homes where
> they do?
>
> THese are neighborhood schools, if you don't like
> your neighborhood, then move.
Seriously. That's the best you have.
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM - why do you think people buy their homes where
> they do?
>
> THese are neighborhood schools, if you don't like
> your neighborhood, then move.
Seriously. That's the best you have.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:47AM
Oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
This is a great reply.
> Say we
> add 500 kids to the mix (in round numbers), and
> say there are zero free lunch kids in there (not
> sure how we do that, but let's say we do).
Most of the surrounding elementary school fit or nearly fit that description, Forestville has less than 1% free lunch. McNair obviously doesn't fit this description.
> Now we have 485 / 1950 kids getting free lunch.
> That's still about 25%. In other words, we went
> through the whole redistricting process, and the
> south lakes percentage went from 33% to 25%.
SL has a capacity of 2100 and if few of the new kids are free lunch, then free lunch goes down to 23% (close to the County average) and there are 12 more teachers to help all the kids.
> On the other end of the scale, if Chantilly has
> 11% free lunch, that's about 300 out of 2800. If
> we removed 500 students with no free lunch to send
> to South Lakes, then we are left with 300 / 2300,
> or about 13%. Again, is Chantilly with 13% free
> lunch kids noticably different from Chantilly with
> 11%? It's still half of South Lakes.
And fewer teachers at Chantilly
> (Keep in mind that you won't find the zero free
> lunch situation in the wild, the percentages will
> change even less than this. South lakes will have
> MORE free lunch kids after redistricting, not
> less.)
Actually Forestville and Great Falls have close to 0 free lunch.
> If you really care about this, you would have to
> recommend moving 250 poor kids from South Lakes to
> Langley. :)
The School division won't let us create a Dogwood island for Langley but that is a really delicious fantasy. How about it Janie Strauss, you claim to be a liberal and concern about the disadvamtaged! ;-)
-------------------------------------------------------
This is a great reply.
> Say we
> add 500 kids to the mix (in round numbers), and
> say there are zero free lunch kids in there (not
> sure how we do that, but let's say we do).
Most of the surrounding elementary school fit or nearly fit that description, Forestville has less than 1% free lunch. McNair obviously doesn't fit this description.
> Now we have 485 / 1950 kids getting free lunch.
> That's still about 25%. In other words, we went
> through the whole redistricting process, and the
> south lakes percentage went from 33% to 25%.
SL has a capacity of 2100 and if few of the new kids are free lunch, then free lunch goes down to 23% (close to the County average) and there are 12 more teachers to help all the kids.
> On the other end of the scale, if Chantilly has
> 11% free lunch, that's about 300 out of 2800. If
> we removed 500 students with no free lunch to send
> to South Lakes, then we are left with 300 / 2300,
> or about 13%. Again, is Chantilly with 13% free
> lunch kids noticably different from Chantilly with
> 11%? It's still half of South Lakes.
And fewer teachers at Chantilly
> (Keep in mind that you won't find the zero free
> lunch situation in the wild, the percentages will
> change even less than this. South lakes will have
> MORE free lunch kids after redistricting, not
> less.)
Actually Forestville and Great Falls have close to 0 free lunch.
> If you really care about this, you would have to
> recommend moving 250 poor kids from South Lakes to
> Langley. :)
The School division won't let us create a Dogwood island for Langley but that is a really delicious fantasy. How about it Janie Strauss, you claim to be a liberal and concern about the disadvamtaged! ;-)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:47AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So everyone is prepared to come to the Town Hall
> with their own plan to throw their neighbors under
> the bus....
>
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/to
> wnmeeting11-12-07.pdf
Thanks again for pointing us to a great source of info, even if it makes me froth at the mouth a little. I hope everyone reads this PowerPoint.
I have to wonder what marketing genius thought it would be persuasive to show us all the great math courses and electives that we would be leaving behind. Even if parents appreciate the enrollment imbalances, how are we Oakton parents supposed to feel when we see all the opportunities our current 8th graders will miss out on. Then again, maybe there is someone on the school board staff who actually wants us to see the whole truth. If communities are going to be moved from good schools to a school that, at the very least, apparently doesn't offer nearly as many courses, teams, (etc.), then when will these courses be added? It doesn't make sense to point out all the shortcomings of the destination school without also promising to improve the school, and not just by moving in middle-class students. If anything is elitist, it's the idea that just having more "good" kids will make the school better. Are the parents supposed to teach the courses?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 10:51AM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So everyone is prepared to come to the Town Hall
> with their own plan to throw their neighbors under
> the bus....
>
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/to
> wnmeeting11-12-07.pdf
Thanks again for pointing us to a great source of info, even if it makes me froth at the mouth a little. I hope everyone reads this PowerPoint.
I have to wonder what marketing genius thought it would be persuasive to show us all the great math courses and electives that we would be leaving behind. Even if parents appreciate the enrollment imbalances, how are we Oakton parents supposed to feel when we see all the opportunities our current 8th graders will miss out on. Then again, maybe there is someone on the school board staff who actually wants us to see the whole truth. If communities are going to be moved from good schools to a school that, at the very least, apparently doesn't offer nearly as many courses, teams, (etc.), then when will these courses be added? It doesn't make sense to point out all the shortcomings of the destination school without also promising to improve the school, and not just by moving in middle-class students. If anything is elitist, it's the idea that just having more "good" kids will make the school better. Are the parents supposed to teach the courses?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 10:51AM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:51AM
FCO Parent,
I think the purpose of redistricting is to be able to offer those courses at South Lakes. Do I really need to walk you through the logic? If more kids are there, as in after redistricting, South Lakes can have those courses. So what would redistricted kids be missing out on?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 10:52AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
I think the purpose of redistricting is to be able to offer those courses at South Lakes. Do I really need to walk you through the logic? If more kids are there, as in after redistricting, South Lakes can have those courses. So what would redistricted kids be missing out on?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 10:52AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:59AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCO Parent,
> I think the purpose of redistricting is to be able
> to offer those courses at South Lakes. Do I
> really need to walk you through the logic? If
> more kids are there, as in after redistricting,
> South Lakes can have those courses. So what would
> redistricted kids be missing out on?
Promises promises. Yes, please walk me through the logic. Better yet, please tell me which courses will be offered and when they will start. I'm so happy now, all my worries are over!
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCO Parent,
> I think the purpose of redistricting is to be able
> to offer those courses at South Lakes. Do I
> really need to walk you through the logic? If
> more kids are there, as in after redistricting,
> South Lakes can have those courses. So what would
> redistricted kids be missing out on?
Promises promises. Yes, please walk me through the logic. Better yet, please tell me which courses will be offered and when they will start. I'm so happy now, all my worries are over!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:00AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCO Parent,
> I think the purpose of redistricting is to be able
> to offer those courses at South Lakes. Do I
> really need to walk you through the logic? If
> more kids are there, as in after redistricting,
> South Lakes can have those courses. So what would
> redistricted kids be missing out on?
But robbing Peter to pay Paul is going to leave Peter broke. If you take Crossfield and part of Fox Mill or vice verse out of Oakton, there goes the piano class, the guitar class and the AP Music Theory class that Oakton now has because the numbers in the program will be sufficiently cut to eliminate the assistant band director, which would then eliminate those classes. Likewise, the football team at Oakton will be cut by at about a third if you take even one of those schools. Oakton is not over capacity...it is about at capacity. Take out 300-400 students and it just shifts the problem to another school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCO Parent,
> I think the purpose of redistricting is to be able
> to offer those courses at South Lakes. Do I
> really need to walk you through the logic? If
> more kids are there, as in after redistricting,
> South Lakes can have those courses. So what would
> redistricted kids be missing out on?
But robbing Peter to pay Paul is going to leave Peter broke. If you take Crossfield and part of Fox Mill or vice verse out of Oakton, there goes the piano class, the guitar class and the AP Music Theory class that Oakton now has because the numbers in the program will be sufficiently cut to eliminate the assistant band director, which would then eliminate those classes. Likewise, the football team at Oakton will be cut by at about a third if you take even one of those schools. Oakton is not over capacity...it is about at capacity. Take out 300-400 students and it just shifts the problem to another school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:03AM
Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So everyone is prepared to come to the Town Hall
> with their own plan to throw their neighbors under
> the bus....
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/to
> wnmeeting11-12-07.pdf
This is a great posting. Thank you, Cricket
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:43AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So everyone is prepared to come to the Town Hall
> with their own plan to throw their neighbors under
> the bus....
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/to
> wnmeeting11-12-07.pdf
This is a great posting. Thank you, Cricket
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:43AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:06AM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Serial Posters - Any Oakton person knows
> Fairfax Towne Center is the place to go.
Then why do Oakton's sports teams hang out at the Glory Days off RESTON parkway.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Serial Posters - Any Oakton person knows
> Fairfax Towne Center is the place to go.
Then why do Oakton's sports teams hang out at the Glory Days off RESTON parkway.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:08AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SL Serial Posters - Any Oakton person knows
> > Fairfax Towne Center is the place to go.
>
> Then why do Oakton's sports teams hang out at the
> Glory Days off RESTON parkway.
Because there is no OAKTON parkway?
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SL Serial Posters - Any Oakton person knows
> > Fairfax Towne Center is the place to go.
>
> Then why do Oakton's sports teams hang out at the
> Glory Days off RESTON parkway.
Because there is no OAKTON parkway?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:14AM
Mr. America Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess parent(s) in Oakton,Chantilly and Langley
> school districts work adn tehy speak English.
> What a concept work to support your family and
> speak the language of the country one lives in.
Thanks for playing, Mr. Limbaugh. How's it going with the drug abuse? Picked on any kids lately?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess parent(s) in Oakton,Chantilly and Langley
> school districts work adn tehy speak English.
> What a concept work to support your family and
> speak the language of the country one lives in.
Thanks for playing, Mr. Limbaugh. How's it going with the drug abuse? Picked on any kids lately?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:30AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But robbing Peter to pay Paul is going to leave
> Peter broke. If you take Crossfield and part of
> Fox Mill or vice verse out of Oakton, there goes
> the piano class, the guitar class and the AP Music
> Theory class that Oakton now has because the
> numbers in the program will be sufficiently cut to
> eliminate the assistant band director, which would
> then eliminate those classes. Likewise, the
> football team at Oakton will be cut by at about a
> third if you take even one of those schools.
> Oakton is not over capacity...it is about at
> capacity. Take out 300-400 students and it just
> shifts the problem to another school.
I think all of the scenarios have involved shifting students from Chantilly or Westfield to Oakton, so that would not be the case. No one wants to diminish Oakton. Westfield is too big and Chantilly is overcrowded.
Many with kids in the "middle" at Westfield might actually welcome decreased enrollment. There are pluses:
-easier to make a team
-easier to get a chair position in band
-less peers to compete against for college slots
-etc.
I'm just trying to point out that those in affected schools can make lemonade out of lemons, as we SL families have been advised to do by many on this site.
-------------------------------------------------------
> But robbing Peter to pay Paul is going to leave
> Peter broke. If you take Crossfield and part of
> Fox Mill or vice verse out of Oakton, there goes
> the piano class, the guitar class and the AP Music
> Theory class that Oakton now has because the
> numbers in the program will be sufficiently cut to
> eliminate the assistant band director, which would
> then eliminate those classes. Likewise, the
> football team at Oakton will be cut by at about a
> third if you take even one of those schools.
> Oakton is not over capacity...it is about at
> capacity. Take out 300-400 students and it just
> shifts the problem to another school.
I think all of the scenarios have involved shifting students from Chantilly or Westfield to Oakton, so that would not be the case. No one wants to diminish Oakton. Westfield is too big and Chantilly is overcrowded.
Many with kids in the "middle" at Westfield might actually welcome decreased enrollment. There are pluses:
-easier to make a team
-easier to get a chair position in band
-less peers to compete against for college slots
-etc.
I'm just trying to point out that those in affected schools can make lemonade out of lemons, as we SL families have been advised to do by many on this site.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:35AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
> But robbing Peter to pay Paul
No its much more like expecting Caiphis and Annis to take care of Lazarus at the gate.
South Lakes doesn't have the classes that Oakton has because teachers and classes are based on enrollment. Oakton's been getting more than its share of those kinds of classes.
In the end Oakton will probably lose no teachers, and no more than 1-2 teachers, so most of those classes are safe and SL will be able to add many of those classes
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:50AM by Thomas More.
> But robbing Peter to pay Paul
No its much more like expecting Caiphis and Annis to take care of Lazarus at the gate.
South Lakes doesn't have the classes that Oakton has because teachers and classes are based on enrollment. Oakton's been getting more than its share of those kinds of classes.
In the end Oakton will probably lose no teachers, and no more than 1-2 teachers, so most of those classes are safe and SL will be able to add many of those classes
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:50AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:38AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Then why do Oakton's sports teams hang out at
> > the Glory Days off RESTON parkway.
>
> Because there is no OAKTON parkway?
Or maybe they've finally figured out that Reston is just cooler than Oakton or FFX Corner. ;-)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:52AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Then why do Oakton's sports teams hang out at
> > the Glory Days off RESTON parkway.
>
> Because there is no OAKTON parkway?
Or maybe they've finally figured out that Reston is just cooler than Oakton or FFX Corner. ;-)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:52AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:54AM
>
> Many with kids in the "middle" at Westfield might
> actually welcome decreased enrollment. There are
> pluses:
>
> -easier to make a team
> -easier to get a chair position in band
> -less peers to compete against for college slots
> -etc.
>
> I'm just trying to point out that those in
> affected schools can make lemonade out of lemons,
> as we SL families have been advised to do by many
> on this site.
Right, the families who stay at Westfield might be happy to have fewer kids there, there's no downside for them.
Does that mean that the families who have to move will be just as happy? Let's test that hypothesis. Maybe the school board doesn't need to redraw the boundaries, they can ask for volunteers to leave the overcrowded schools. If parents at Westfield and Chantilly want their child to make the sports team, the school play, whatever, they can go to SLHS. It's a win-win situation. SLHS gets more kids, and those kids actually want to be there. To be fair, maybe the SLHS parents should also be given the opportunity to attend Oakton. Of course, few of them would move because their school is mostly fine as is and they love it. Still, it's important to be fair. [snark off]
SLVerity and other SL parents, I don't hold it against you that you support and defend your school. I don't think it's such a bad school even. but right now, it's not as good a school for my kids. I don't particularly want lemondade because I don't trust the school board to give me lemons AND sugar. I feel like we need to plant the sugar cane, harvest it, do whatever has to be done to make sugar out of it, etc. Does anyone on this message board trust the school board to handle this fairly? Why are they protecting pristine Langley?
> Many with kids in the "middle" at Westfield might
> actually welcome decreased enrollment. There are
> pluses:
>
> -easier to make a team
> -easier to get a chair position in band
> -less peers to compete against for college slots
> -etc.
>
> I'm just trying to point out that those in
> affected schools can make lemonade out of lemons,
> as we SL families have been advised to do by many
> on this site.
Right, the families who stay at Westfield might be happy to have fewer kids there, there's no downside for them.
Does that mean that the families who have to move will be just as happy? Let's test that hypothesis. Maybe the school board doesn't need to redraw the boundaries, they can ask for volunteers to leave the overcrowded schools. If parents at Westfield and Chantilly want their child to make the sports team, the school play, whatever, they can go to SLHS. It's a win-win situation. SLHS gets more kids, and those kids actually want to be there. To be fair, maybe the SLHS parents should also be given the opportunity to attend Oakton. Of course, few of them would move because their school is mostly fine as is and they love it. Still, it's important to be fair. [snark off]
SLVerity and other SL parents, I don't hold it against you that you support and defend your school. I don't think it's such a bad school even. but right now, it's not as good a school for my kids. I don't particularly want lemondade because I don't trust the school board to give me lemons AND sugar. I feel like we need to plant the sugar cane, harvest it, do whatever has to be done to make sugar out of it, etc. Does anyone on this message board trust the school board to handle this fairly? Why are they protecting pristine Langley?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:12PM
I feel your frustration, FCO parent. We at SL have to defend our school and we will also be demanding that the School Board do whatever it takes to appease newcomers. At the very least, the building environment will be state-of-the-art and gorgeous.
If I thought that a magnet was a good idea, I would be supporting it. My kids went to HW Magnet and it was a great school, but it didn't help our pyramid, because many of those kids went back to their base schools for middle school. Our physical school district needs to be strengthened.
Think about it this way: All but one elementary in the SL Pyramid is a magnet (GT Center, Spanish Immersion, Arts & Sciences) and they pull students from out of the pyramid. Most return to their base schools for MS - that depletes our base. Our middle school is also a magnet (GT Center). We lose at least 50% of the GT students to their base school (Herndon) or to TJ after 9th grade. By the time students who live in our pyramid reach the HS level, the base has been depleted (of middle class students) greatly.
We need a firm boundary of students who will stay in the pyramid all the way through. I just want you to understand that over the years, the efforts to beef up enrollment at the bottom of the pyramid have not benefitted the HS and the simple fact is that our boundary is not large enough.
And yes, these were all decisions made at the School Board level because they did not have the stomach for the fight which is going on now. When we first learned about the upcoming boundary adjustments a few years ago, those of us involved in the school said that we were going to have to prove to surrounding districts that the school was on an upward track. We got a new principal and he implemented strategies that have resulted in an upward trend in our test scores. We have been doing our part. Now the SB needs to do its part. Please join with us in asking for that help.
Sorry Word, that this wasn't more brief. Sometimes these things can't be said in a soundbite.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 12:14PM by SLVerity.
If I thought that a magnet was a good idea, I would be supporting it. My kids went to HW Magnet and it was a great school, but it didn't help our pyramid, because many of those kids went back to their base schools for middle school. Our physical school district needs to be strengthened.
Think about it this way: All but one elementary in the SL Pyramid is a magnet (GT Center, Spanish Immersion, Arts & Sciences) and they pull students from out of the pyramid. Most return to their base schools for MS - that depletes our base. Our middle school is also a magnet (GT Center). We lose at least 50% of the GT students to their base school (Herndon) or to TJ after 9th grade. By the time students who live in our pyramid reach the HS level, the base has been depleted (of middle class students) greatly.
We need a firm boundary of students who will stay in the pyramid all the way through. I just want you to understand that over the years, the efforts to beef up enrollment at the bottom of the pyramid have not benefitted the HS and the simple fact is that our boundary is not large enough.
And yes, these were all decisions made at the School Board level because they did not have the stomach for the fight which is going on now. When we first learned about the upcoming boundary adjustments a few years ago, those of us involved in the school said that we were going to have to prove to surrounding districts that the school was on an upward track. We got a new principal and he implemented strategies that have resulted in an upward trend in our test scores. We have been doing our part. Now the SB needs to do its part. Please join with us in asking for that help.
Sorry Word, that this wasn't more brief. Sometimes these things can't be said in a soundbite.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 12:14PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:25PM
> Does anyone on this
> message board trust the school board to handle
> this fairly? Why are they protecting pristine
> Langley?
Given the vast disparities of free lunch and ESOL between Dogwood and Great Falls, the failure to include Langley is probably a violation of the equal protection rights of the students of South Lakes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 12:35PM by Thomas More.
> message board trust the school board to handle
> this fairly? Why are they protecting pristine
> Langley?
Given the vast disparities of free lunch and ESOL between Dogwood and Great Falls, the failure to include Langley is probably a violation of the equal protection rights of the students of South Lakes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 12:35PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:34PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Does anyone on this
> > message board trust the school board to handle
> > this fairly? Why are they protecting pristine
> > Langley?
>
> Given the vast disparities of free lunch and ESOL
> between Dogwood and Great Fall, the failure to
> include Langley is probably a violation of the
> equal protection rights of the students of South
> Lakes.
Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to make that one of the talking points at the town meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone with any sense at all will bring up the Langley issue in pretty much every focus group at every town meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless of how many people bring it up, the school board will continue to refuse to include it. They are set on which schools are to be included and it does not include Langley.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Does anyone on this
> > message board trust the school board to handle
> > this fairly? Why are they protecting pristine
> > Langley?
>
> Given the vast disparities of free lunch and ESOL
> between Dogwood and Great Fall, the failure to
> include Langley is probably a violation of the
> equal protection rights of the students of South
> Lakes.
Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to make that one of the talking points at the town meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone with any sense at all will bring up the Langley issue in pretty much every focus group at every town meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless of how many people bring it up, the school board will continue to refuse to include it. They are set on which schools are to be included and it does not include Langley.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:37PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So everyone is prepared to come to the Town
> Hall
> > with their own plan to throw their neighbors
> under
> > the bus....
> >
> >
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/to
>
> > wnmeeting11-12-07.pdf
>
> This is a great posting. Thank you, Cricket
It is a great post. I also noticed that on the page that has Oakton's feeder elementary schools (page 48 of the power point), Crossfield is not on there. Well, it is on there, but not labled or counted in the legend. However, on the next page, where SL's feeder elementary schools are listed, Crossfield is there as a bordering school, but with all the students counted in the legend, rather than just the few who actually attend South Lakes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So everyone is prepared to come to the Town
> Hall
> > with their own plan to throw their neighbors
> under
> > the bus....
> >
> >
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/to
>
> > wnmeeting11-12-07.pdf
>
> This is a great posting. Thank you, Cricket
It is a great post. I also noticed that on the page that has Oakton's feeder elementary schools (page 48 of the power point), Crossfield is not on there. Well, it is on there, but not labled or counted in the legend. However, on the next page, where SL's feeder elementary schools are listed, Crossfield is there as a bordering school, but with all the students counted in the legend, rather than just the few who actually attend South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:43PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> make that one of the talking points at the town
> meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone with
> any sense at all will bring up the Langley issue
> in pretty much every focus group at every town
> meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless of
> how many people bring it up, the school board will
> continue to refuse to include it. They are set on
> which schools are to be included and it does not
> include Langley.
Gibson said exactly that claiming that the School Boards regulations prevented adjusting the boundary study area at this point in the process.
Of course that's crap for two reasons, 1) the regulations don't specifically prohibit such a change and 2) they can always waive or suspend their own rules and regulations. Gibson and his crowd forget that FFX has the highest percentage of parents with graduate degrees and many of them live within the boundary study area. They treat us with disrespect (big issue in FCPS behavior code) assuming we can't figure this out.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> make that one of the talking points at the town
> meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone with
> any sense at all will bring up the Langley issue
> in pretty much every focus group at every town
> meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless of
> how many people bring it up, the school board will
> continue to refuse to include it. They are set on
> which schools are to be included and it does not
> include Langley.
Gibson said exactly that claiming that the School Boards regulations prevented adjusting the boundary study area at this point in the process.
Of course that's crap for two reasons, 1) the regulations don't specifically prohibit such a change and 2) they can always waive or suspend their own rules and regulations. Gibson and his crowd forget that FFX has the highest percentage of parents with graduate degrees and many of them live within the boundary study area. They treat us with disrespect (big issue in FCPS behavior code) assuming we can't figure this out.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:47PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> > make that one of the talking points at the town
> > meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone
> with
> > any sense at all will bring up the Langley
> issue
> > in pretty much every focus group at every town
> > meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless
> of
> > how many people bring it up, the school board
> will
> > continue to refuse to include it. They are set
> on
> > which schools are to be included and it does
> not
> > include Langley.
>
> Gibson said exactly that claiming that the School
> Boards regulations prevented adjusting the
> boundary study area at this point in the process.
>
> Of course that's crap for two reasons, 1) the
> regulations don't specifically prohibit such a
> change and 2) they can always waive or suspend
> their own rules and regulations. Gibson and his
> crowd forget that FFX has the highest percentage
> of parents with graduate degrees and many of them
> live within the boundary study area. They treat
> us with disrespect (big issue in FCPS behavior
> code) assuming we can't figure this out.
Well, then I hope everyone brings their best graduate degree vocabulary to the meetings and put Stu and the others who are refusing to negotiate the point in their places.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> > make that one of the talking points at the town
> > meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone
> with
> > any sense at all will bring up the Langley
> issue
> > in pretty much every focus group at every town
> > meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless
> of
> > how many people bring it up, the school board
> will
> > continue to refuse to include it. They are set
> on
> > which schools are to be included and it does
> not
> > include Langley.
>
> Gibson said exactly that claiming that the School
> Boards regulations prevented adjusting the
> boundary study area at this point in the process.
>
> Of course that's crap for two reasons, 1) the
> regulations don't specifically prohibit such a
> change and 2) they can always waive or suspend
> their own rules and regulations. Gibson and his
> crowd forget that FFX has the highest percentage
> of parents with graduate degrees and many of them
> live within the boundary study area. They treat
> us with disrespect (big issue in FCPS behavior
> code) assuming we can't figure this out.
Well, then I hope everyone brings their best graduate degree vocabulary to the meetings and put Stu and the others who are refusing to negotiate the point in their places.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:55PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a great post. I also noticed that on the
> page that has Oakton's feeder elementary schools
> (page 48 of the power point), Crossfield is not on
> there. Well, it is on there, but not labled or
> counted in the legend. However, on the next page,
> where SL's feeder elementary schools are listed,
> Crossfield is there as a bordering school, but
> with all the students counted in the legend,
> rather than just the few who actually attend South
> Lakes.
Look at page 49, it has 29 Crossfield kids going to South Lakes and 558 going to Oakton
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 12:56PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a great post. I also noticed that on the
> page that has Oakton's feeder elementary schools
> (page 48 of the power point), Crossfield is not on
> there. Well, it is on there, but not labled or
> counted in the legend. However, on the next page,
> where SL's feeder elementary schools are listed,
> Crossfield is there as a bordering school, but
> with all the students counted in the legend,
> rather than just the few who actually attend South
> Lakes.
Look at page 49, it has 29 Crossfield kids going to South Lakes and 558 going to Oakton
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 12:56PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:00PM
I see Goodman is going to make a presentation. Someone should ask her if she's the one who left Railly in place for 7 years to destroy South Lakes and follow up that since that's the case why does she think she has any credibility to participate in this process.
Then the crowd starts chanting "Resign, Resign, Resign"
Then the crowd starts chanting "Resign, Resign, Resign"
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:01PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Does anyone on this
> > > message board trust the school board to
> handle
> > > this fairly? Why are they protecting
> pristine
> > > Langley?
> >
> > Given the vast disparities of free lunch and
> ESOL
> > between Dogwood and Great Fall, the failure to
> > include Langley is probably a violation of the
> > equal protection rights of the students of
> South
> > Lakes.
>
> Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> make that one of the talking points at the town
> meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone with
> any sense at all will bring up the Langley issue
> in pretty much every focus group at every town
> meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless of
> how many people bring it up, the school board will
> continue to refuse to include it. They are set on
> which schools are to be included and it does not
> include Langley.
As unfair as this is, I think we have to proceed as if Langley is not included and try to convince them of the need to make sure that SL serves everyone who is redistricted. Wont' that be an acceptable outcome for those involved? Note: I'm not saying the desired outcome, just an acceptable one.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Does anyone on this
> > > message board trust the school board to
> handle
> > > this fairly? Why are they protecting
> pristine
> > > Langley?
> >
> > Given the vast disparities of free lunch and
> ESOL
> > between Dogwood and Great Fall, the failure to
> > include Langley is probably a violation of the
> > equal protection rights of the students of
> South
> > Lakes.
>
> Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> make that one of the talking points at the town
> meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone with
> any sense at all will bring up the Langley issue
> in pretty much every focus group at every town
> meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless of
> how many people bring it up, the school board will
> continue to refuse to include it. They are set on
> which schools are to be included and it does not
> include Langley.
As unfair as this is, I think we have to proceed as if Langley is not included and try to convince them of the need to make sure that SL serves everyone who is redistricted. Wont' that be an acceptable outcome for those involved? Note: I'm not saying the desired outcome, just an acceptable one.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:05PM
Another form of civil disobediance - since the outcome is fixed already.
The hand-out claims everyone will get a chance to be heard in the breakout groups but they're only allowing an hour for 20 people to discuss the matter. and 15 minutes for the Gallery process.
Could this be anymore phony!
Don't participate in the break-out groups stay in the main hall. Chant "langley, Langley, langley"
The hand-out claims everyone will get a chance to be heard in the breakout groups but they're only allowing an hour for 20 people to discuss the matter. and 15 minutes for the Gallery process.
Could this be anymore phony!
Don't participate in the break-out groups stay in the main hall. Chant "langley, Langley, langley"
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:06PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As unfair as this is, I think we have to proceed
> as if Langley is not included and try to convince
> them of the need to make sure that SL serves
> everyone who is redistricted. Wont' that be an
> acceptable outcome for those involved? Note: I'm
> not saying the desired outcome, just an acceptable
> one.
NO!
This is what a school administration suck-up would say. Are you bringing the vasiline for everybody or a valium.
Your kids are out of FCPS and you want all of us to be happy with what these abusers of power and children are going to do without objection or protest.
"Just roll over and be good do-bees or else Stu may not be happy."
Honestly, are you on the FCPS payroll?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:11PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> As unfair as this is, I think we have to proceed
> as if Langley is not included and try to convince
> them of the need to make sure that SL serves
> everyone who is redistricted. Wont' that be an
> acceptable outcome for those involved? Note: I'm
> not saying the desired outcome, just an acceptable
> one.
NO!
This is what a school administration suck-up would say. Are you bringing the vasiline for everybody or a valium.
Your kids are out of FCPS and you want all of us to be happy with what these abusers of power and children are going to do without objection or protest.
"Just roll over and be good do-bees or else Stu may not be happy."
Honestly, are you on the FCPS payroll?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:11PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:14PM
has anyone call the local news stations to make sure they cover this travesty?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:30PM by Thomas More.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:30PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:14PM
Are you off your meds again, Tom?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:16PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you off your meds again, Tom?
Don't need any Mrs. Pangloss. You've got something brown on your nose.
Didn't answer any of the questions posed, again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:17PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you off your meds again, Tom?
Don't need any Mrs. Pangloss. You've got something brown on your nose.
Didn't answer any of the questions posed, again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:17PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:17PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > Does anyone on this
> > > > message board trust the school board to
> > handle
> > > > this fairly? Why are they protecting
> > pristine
> > > > Langley?
> > >
> > > Given the vast disparities of free lunch and
> > ESOL
> > > between Dogwood and Great Fall, the failure
> to
> > > include Langley is probably a violation of
> the
> > > equal protection rights of the students of
> > South
> > > Lakes.
> >
> > Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> > make that one of the talking points at the town
> > meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone
> with
> > any sense at all will bring up the Langley
> issue
> > in pretty much every focus group at every town
> > meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless
> of
> > how many people bring it up, the school board
> will
> > continue to refuse to include it. They are set
> on
> > which schools are to be included and it does
> not
> > include Langley.
>
> As unfair as this is, I think we have to proceed
> as if Langley is not included and try to convince
> them of the need to make sure that SL serves
> everyone who is redistricted. Wont' that be an
> acceptable outcome for those involved? Note: I'm
> not saying the desired outcome, just an acceptable
> one.
I think that would be about the worst possible thing anyone can do. It's like just rolling over. Not gonna happen. There will certainly be those who make the best of the situation once it is resolved, and that will include me. BUT it won't happen without a fight.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > Does anyone on this
> > > > message board trust the school board to
> > handle
> > > > this fairly? Why are they protecting
> > pristine
> > > > Langley?
> > >
> > > Given the vast disparities of free lunch and
> > ESOL
> > > between Dogwood and Great Fall, the failure
> to
> > > include Langley is probably a violation of
> the
> > > equal protection rights of the students of
> > South
> > > Lakes.
> >
> > Okay, so now all we need are the SL parents to
> > make that one of the talking points at the town
> > meetings. Honestly, I do believe that anyone
> with
> > any sense at all will bring up the Langley
> issue
> > in pretty much every focus group at every town
> > meeting. But I have no doubt that, regardless
> of
> > how many people bring it up, the school board
> will
> > continue to refuse to include it. They are set
> on
> > which schools are to be included and it does
> not
> > include Langley.
>
> As unfair as this is, I think we have to proceed
> as if Langley is not included and try to convince
> them of the need to make sure that SL serves
> everyone who is redistricted. Wont' that be an
> acceptable outcome for those involved? Note: I'm
> not saying the desired outcome, just an acceptable
> one.
I think that would be about the worst possible thing anyone can do. It's like just rolling over. Not gonna happen. There will certainly be those who make the best of the situation once it is resolved, and that will include me. BUT it won't happen without a fight.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:23PM
TM:
Being civil or having a different idea on what is acceptable does not equal supineness, surrender, or something akin to involuntary invasion. I'd rather that any meeting doesn't descend into chants, whether they be "Never, never" or "resign", or whatever.
Being civil or having a different idea on what is acceptable does not equal supineness, surrender, or something akin to involuntary invasion. I'd rather that any meeting doesn't descend into chants, whether they be "Never, never" or "resign", or whatever.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:28PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM:
>
> Being civil or having a different idea on what is
> acceptable does not equal supineness, surrender,
> or something akin to involuntary invasion. I'd
> rather that any meeting doesn't descend into
> chants, whether they be "Never, never" or
> "resign", or whatever.
Then don't chant.
Reviewing the handout makes it abundantly clear that this process is a Potemkin village.
Are you just going to roll over, too and hope Uncle Stu hasn't screwed SL too much?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:28PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM:
>
> Being civil or having a different idea on what is
> acceptable does not equal supineness, surrender,
> or something akin to involuntary invasion. I'd
> rather that any meeting doesn't descend into
> chants, whether they be "Never, never" or
> "resign", or whatever.
Then don't chant.
Reviewing the handout makes it abundantly clear that this process is a Potemkin village.
Are you just going to roll over, too and hope Uncle Stu hasn't screwed SL too much?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:28PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:29PM
And I am not suggesting that people not raise points like == why not Langley? -- forcefully in a meeting, but really don't support berating public officials.....not productive and then the contest becomes who gets to berate longer and louder.
Let's stick to the issues, including Langley, McNair, the magnet option,...
Let's stick to the issues, including Langley, McNair, the magnet option,...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:29PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM:
>
> Being civil or having a different idea on what is
> acceptable does not equal supineness, surrender,
> or something akin to involuntary invasion. I'd
> rather that any meeting doesn't descend into
> chants, whether they be "Never, never" or
> "resign", or whatever.
Agreed. I don't understand the need for personal attacks when someone is not in agreement. It diminishes the purpose of this board.
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM:
>
> Being civil or having a different idea on what is
> acceptable does not equal supineness, surrender,
> or something akin to involuntary invasion. I'd
> rather that any meeting doesn't descend into
> chants, whether they be "Never, never" or
> "resign", or whatever.
Agreed. I don't understand the need for personal attacks when someone is not in agreement. It diminishes the purpose of this board.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:33PM
It might be true that they've already decided who's going and who's not. But I think the Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still open.
So if parents want to influence these issues, a rational discussion and substantive argument will go a lot further than chanting,
So if parents want to influence these issues, a rational discussion and substantive argument will go a lot further than chanting,
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:34PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed. I don't understand the need for personal
> attacks when someone is not in agreement. It
> diminishes the purpose of this board.
Still haven't addressed the questions posed?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed. I don't understand the need for personal
> attacks when someone is not in agreement. It
> diminishes the purpose of this board.
Still haven't addressed the questions posed?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:41PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It might be true that they've already decided
> who's going and who's not. But I think the
> Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> open.
>
> So if parents want to influence these issues, a
> rational discussion and substantive argument will
> go a lot further than chanting.
The hand-out makes clear, they aren't giving you time for rational discussion. Parents have no influence. According to the three SL posters we should just accept what Stu gives us like good little lambs.
Bruce has already said there will be limited AP offerings, if any.
Grandfathering doesn't directly impact SL kids.
I guess the three of you are satisfied with what Stu's already decided. Could you at least share that with the rest of the class.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It might be true that they've already decided
> who's going and who's not. But I think the
> Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> open.
>
> So if parents want to influence these issues, a
> rational discussion and substantive argument will
> go a lot further than chanting.
The hand-out makes clear, they aren't giving you time for rational discussion. Parents have no influence. According to the three SL posters we should just accept what Stu gives us like good little lambs.
Bruce has already said there will be limited AP offerings, if any.
Grandfathering doesn't directly impact SL kids.
I guess the three of you are satisfied with what Stu's already decided. Could you at least share that with the rest of the class.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:45PM
Thomas, really, stop being a belligerent pain in the you know what. How would I know what they've decided? Just saying that if you are going to go there to chant, you may as well stay home. It's not going to get you anywhere.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:46PM
No, I am not on the payroll, nor am I affiliated with FCPS or the County in any way. You are much More effective when you refrain from attacking other posters, pun intended. You do our community a disservice when you act less than civil,
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:46PM
Maybe the three SL posters need to re-read Thoreau's essay on civil disobedience again. Or may be some of the writings of Ghandi or MLK.
When those with power treat those without power with disrespect and abuse their rights, civil disobedience is the only rational course of action for self-respecting human beings.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:49PM by Thomas More.
When those with power treat those without power with disrespect and abuse their rights, civil disobedience is the only rational course of action for self-respecting human beings.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 01:49PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:53PM
I don't believe in civil disobedience, but rather dialogue. We differ, so what? You won't get anywhere with 60's era tactics and power to the people rhetoric. Make your views known in a firm but polite way, Write letters to the paper and sign your name to them. Don't hide behind the name of one of England's bards. Be proud of and own your opinions. And don't hog the floor in your group as you are sometimes prone to do. Don't berate others who don't agree with you. It is a failed tactic and it will get you nowhere.
Adios.
Adios.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:57PM
the reaction of the three SL posters to the suggestion of civil disobedience reminds me of the story of three friends on the station platform after arriving at Auschwitz. A guard shoves Henri gratutitously. Henri gets into a fight with the guard. His two companions grab him saying, "Henri, Don't make trouble"
To which Henri responds, "They're gonna kill us in a few minutes and I shouldn't make trouble?"
Seriously, how much worse could it get for SL, Is Stu going to take Sunrise Valley and send it to Madison?
To which Henri responds, "They're gonna kill us in a few minutes and I shouldn't make trouble?"
Seriously, how much worse could it get for SL, Is Stu going to take Sunrise Valley and send it to Madison?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 02:01PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It might be true that they've already decided
> who's going and who's not. But I think the
> Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> open.
>
> So if parents want to influence these issues, a
> rational discussion and substantive argument will
> go a lot further than chanting,
I'd like to believe that. However, maybe we can do a good parent/bad parent thing. All those who want to chant, go ahead and do it with gusto, then the "rational" parents can work on the real negotiations (AP, grandfathering..). I just have this nagging feeling that it will be hard to enforce the promises. If we roll over and agree to go without making a huge stink about it, and the SB agrees to add courses, etc., then a year from now our kids are showing up, and holy smokes, 90% of the new courses haven't materialized.
I actually like the idea of the media showing up at the meetings. However, I don't know how much interest there would be for the majority of the viewing public. I can chant plenty loud if it gets me somewhere. Baby boomers, come on, "Hell no, we won't go! At least not without AP!"
BTW, I went to Langley, and I don't think it's healthy for the students there to think they're a cut above, even if by some measures they are. This was pre-TJ era. Anyone remember when it made Time magazine ("Langley Country Club").
-------------------------------------------------------
> It might be true that they've already decided
> who's going and who's not. But I think the
> Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> open.
>
> So if parents want to influence these issues, a
> rational discussion and substantive argument will
> go a lot further than chanting,
I'd like to believe that. However, maybe we can do a good parent/bad parent thing. All those who want to chant, go ahead and do it with gusto, then the "rational" parents can work on the real negotiations (AP, grandfathering..). I just have this nagging feeling that it will be hard to enforce the promises. If we roll over and agree to go without making a huge stink about it, and the SB agrees to add courses, etc., then a year from now our kids are showing up, and holy smokes, 90% of the new courses haven't materialized.
I actually like the idea of the media showing up at the meetings. However, I don't know how much interest there would be for the majority of the viewing public. I can chant plenty loud if it gets me somewhere. Baby boomers, come on, "Hell no, we won't go! At least not without AP!"
BTW, I went to Langley, and I don't think it's healthy for the students there to think they're a cut above, even if by some measures they are. This was pre-TJ era. Anyone remember when it made Time magazine ("Langley Country Club").
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 02:10PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You won't get
> anywhere with 60's era tactics.
Tell that to Ghandi and MLK
> Don't hide behind the
> name of one of England's bards.
But you get to hide behind SLVerify. What does that stand for anyway?
Thomas More was hardly a mere bard. Though he did write Utopia. He was one of the greatest minds of his century. He was an outstanding attorney. A man of great faith who sacrificed his life in the pursuit of freedom. You insult us both calling him a mere "bard."
> And don't hog the floor in
> your group as you are sometimes prone to do.
Look who talking?
> Don't berate others who don't agree with you.
Ditto
> It is a failed tactic and it will get you nowhere.
Hasn't stopped you.
> Adios.
Does this mean we won't have the pleasure of anymore of Stu and Bruce's propaganda.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You won't get
> anywhere with 60's era tactics.
Tell that to Ghandi and MLK
> Don't hide behind the
> name of one of England's bards.
But you get to hide behind SLVerify. What does that stand for anyway?
Thomas More was hardly a mere bard. Though he did write Utopia. He was one of the greatest minds of his century. He was an outstanding attorney. A man of great faith who sacrificed his life in the pursuit of freedom. You insult us both calling him a mere "bard."
> And don't hog the floor in
> your group as you are sometimes prone to do.
Look who talking?
> Don't berate others who don't agree with you.
Ditto
> It is a failed tactic and it will get you nowhere.
Hasn't stopped you.
> Adios.
Does this mean we won't have the pleasure of anymore of Stu and Bruce's propaganda.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 02:10PM
FCO Parent,
One thing we should ask for at the first meeting--when they come up with scenarios at the second meeting, each scenario should be accompanied by:
Detailed demographics for that scenario for all schools involved,
Detailed course offerings for that scenario.
Some commitment on AP
One thing we should ask for at the first meeting--when they come up with scenarios at the second meeting, each scenario should be accompanied by:
Detailed demographics for that scenario for all schools involved,
Detailed course offerings for that scenario.
Some commitment on AP
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 02:13PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone remember when it made Time
> magazine ("Langley Country Club").
Thus, my continuing reference to the Charlotesville day school as Mr. Jefferson's country club. You found me out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 02:18PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone remember when it made Time
> magazine ("Langley Country Club").
Thus, my continuing reference to the Charlotesville day school as Mr. Jefferson's country club. You found me out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 02:18PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 02:32PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You do our community a disservice when you act less than civil,
Not nearly the disservice done by failing to acknowledge SL's shortcomings and doing nothing to fix them for 7 years.
When you learned IB was coming to SL before all of the rest of us and you opposed it, you apparently said nothing to anyone and did nothing to stop it.
You recognized that Railly was a failure as a principal early in her tenure and apparently did nothing to change it. Not even complain to Webb, Goodman and Gibson. And you berate those of us who did.
Not nearly the desservice of passively allowing Stu and Betsey to use my children to advance their agendas which have nothing to do with my children's best interests.
You berate my posting in this forum and praise them in private mail.
You liable a man with false accusations and never recant them.
Who has done the greater disservice to the SL community?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 02:34PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You do our community a disservice when you act less than civil,
Not nearly the disservice done by failing to acknowledge SL's shortcomings and doing nothing to fix them for 7 years.
When you learned IB was coming to SL before all of the rest of us and you opposed it, you apparently said nothing to anyone and did nothing to stop it.
You recognized that Railly was a failure as a principal early in her tenure and apparently did nothing to change it. Not even complain to Webb, Goodman and Gibson. And you berate those of us who did.
Not nearly the desservice of passively allowing Stu and Betsey to use my children to advance their agendas which have nothing to do with my children's best interests.
You berate my posting in this forum and praise them in private mail.
You liable a man with false accusations and never recant them.
Who has done the greater disservice to the SL community?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 02:34PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 10, 2007 02:35PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It might be true that they've already decided
> > who's going and who's not. But I think the
> > Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> > open.
> >
>
> BTW, I went to Langley, and I don't think it's
> healthy for the students there to think they're a
> cut above, even if by some measures they are. This
> was pre-TJ era. Anyone remember when it made Time
> magazine ("Langley Country Club").
Yep, I was there then too. Purposefully, didn't move into the pyramid. Wanted my kids to have a bit of a different perspective than I did.
No wonder I always think your posts are so well reasoned. Here's to old timers!
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It might be true that they've already decided
> > who's going and who's not. But I think the
> > Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> > open.
> >
>
> BTW, I went to Langley, and I don't think it's
> healthy for the students there to think they're a
> cut above, even if by some measures they are. This
> was pre-TJ era. Anyone remember when it made Time
> magazine ("Langley Country Club").
Yep, I was there then too. Purposefully, didn't move into the pyramid. Wanted my kids to have a bit of a different perspective than I did.
No wonder I always think your posts are so well reasoned. Here's to old timers!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:01PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anyone remember when it made Time
> > magazine ("Langley Country Club").
>
> Thus, my continuing reference to the
> Charlotesville day school as Mr. Jefferson's
> country club. You found me out.
What? you went to Langley also?
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anyone remember when it made Time
> > magazine ("Langley Country Club").
>
> Thus, my continuing reference to the
> Charlotesville day school as Mr. Jefferson's
> country club. You found me out.
What? you went to Langley also?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:06PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It might be true that they've already decided
> > > who's going and who's not. But I think the
> > > Grandfathering and the AP discussions are
> still
> > > open.
> > >
> >
> > BTW, I went to Langley, and I don't think it's
> > healthy for the students there to think they're
> a
> > cut above, even if by some measures they are.
> This
> > was pre-TJ era. Anyone remember when it made
> Time
> > magazine ("Langley Country Club").
>
>
>
> Yep, I was there then too. Purposefully, didn't
> move into the pyramid. Wanted my kids to have a
> bit of a different perspective than I did.
>
> No wonder I always think your posts are so well
> reasoned. Here's to old timers!
Disclaimer: if you aren't interested in Langley memory lane, skip this post.
How funny, I also didn't move there on purpose, although housing prices pretty much made that decision besides the point. I sort of thought that with Oakton we were getting most of the advantages with a little more diversity, less preppiness, although my daughter told that the kids who go to Oakton from Carson are considered the preppiest ones there.
I'm going to a Langley alum party tonight! See you there?
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It might be true that they've already decided
> > > who's going and who's not. But I think the
> > > Grandfathering and the AP discussions are
> still
> > > open.
> > >
> >
> > BTW, I went to Langley, and I don't think it's
> > healthy for the students there to think they're
> a
> > cut above, even if by some measures they are.
> This
> > was pre-TJ era. Anyone remember when it made
> Time
> > magazine ("Langley Country Club").
>
>
>
> Yep, I was there then too. Purposefully, didn't
> move into the pyramid. Wanted my kids to have a
> bit of a different perspective than I did.
>
> No wonder I always think your posts are so well
> reasoned. Here's to old timers!
Disclaimer: if you aren't interested in Langley memory lane, skip this post.
How funny, I also didn't move there on purpose, although housing prices pretty much made that decision besides the point. I sort of thought that with Oakton we were getting most of the advantages with a little more diversity, less preppiness, although my daughter told that the kids who go to Oakton from Carson are considered the preppiest ones there.
I'm going to a Langley alum party tonight! See you there?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:12PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? you went to Langley also?
No ma'am. I just remember the article. I was across the Patowmack. (native american spelling)
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? you went to Langley also?
No ma'am. I just remember the article. I was across the Patowmack. (native american spelling)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:19PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If you log in you can edit your postings and send and receive private mail. Those of us whose name is in blue have done that.
-------------------------------------------------------
If you log in you can edit your postings and send and receive private mail. Those of us whose name is in blue have done that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:29PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually like the idea of the media showing up
> at the meetings. However, I don't know how much
> interest there would be for the majority of the
> viewing public.
They love conflict of all stripes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually like the idea of the media showing up
> at the meetings. However, I don't know how much
> interest there would be for the majority of the
> viewing public.
They love conflict of all stripes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Letsgoseahawks
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:57PM
I am a South Lakes graduate and recieved my IB diploma and currently attend UVA. (go hoos) I have browsed this site just a little bit. I have better things to do than spend my whole day bashing SL (T Moore) when your own children went there. I was there when Mrs. Rodriguez was the principal and although she was not my favorite, I think she was a positive influence on SL. And I hear that Mr. Butler is doing a wonderful job. The implementation of the IB program is one of the best things that has happened to UVA. Although it has not been around as long as the AP program, I would argue it prepares students even more for college than AP. The IB program is great for students who are good at writing because of the extended essay and the internal assessments. Furthermore, it definitely improves mediocre writing skills. In college, and as I have heard in the real world, writing is an essential skill. I was shocked in my mandatory writing class to talk to AP students that had not written a single essay in high school and had no idea how to write a sentence. Also, almost anyone can take an IB class if they want to, the student just has to have enough ambition and work ethic to do well in the class, its the same as with AP classes. I know plenty of my peers who got into great colleges from taking one or two maybe more IB classes. To learn more about IB you can go to their website (just google it) or talk to whoever the IB coordinator is.
Moving on, South Lakes has as everyone knows, a poor reputation. I hear in posts about gang fights and concern for safety I'll just let everyone know I was never afraid to walk down the halls of South Lakes. I never saw a gang fight. What I loved about South Lakes is how integrated everyone is, race, nationality, etc does not matter there like it does at other schools. UVA has had its fair share of racism and I've heard racist comments come from students who went to schools like Oakton and Westfields where racial groups tend to stay together, white kids are friends with white kids. My group of friends is very multiculutural and I think I have benefited. I think if I had gone to a school like Oakton I would've missed out on having friends from many cultures.
Finally, the adminstration at South Lakes is top notch at least the IB teachers are I cannot attest for the other teachers. Ms. Zylka was a wonderful English teacher, Mr, Ravenstahl has won numerous awards for his sculptures, Mrs. Samedov was a wonderful math teacher and cared about her students. Mr. Ward was a wonderful teacher too. There were many others as well that I thought really helped to prepare me for college. Some parents might be upset because these teachers did not hand out A's which many FCPS kids just expect, rather these teachers challenged their students.
As to property values and your kids having to make new friends, I wouldn't worry about it, this is Fairfax County, everyone wants to live there and when the metro comes to Reston, property values will be sky high. Plus, your kids should have good enough social skills to make new friends and South Lakes is a friendly place. Well I have other things I need to do just thought I'd put in my perspective.
Moving on, South Lakes has as everyone knows, a poor reputation. I hear in posts about gang fights and concern for safety I'll just let everyone know I was never afraid to walk down the halls of South Lakes. I never saw a gang fight. What I loved about South Lakes is how integrated everyone is, race, nationality, etc does not matter there like it does at other schools. UVA has had its fair share of racism and I've heard racist comments come from students who went to schools like Oakton and Westfields where racial groups tend to stay together, white kids are friends with white kids. My group of friends is very multiculutural and I think I have benefited. I think if I had gone to a school like Oakton I would've missed out on having friends from many cultures.
Finally, the adminstration at South Lakes is top notch at least the IB teachers are I cannot attest for the other teachers. Ms. Zylka was a wonderful English teacher, Mr, Ravenstahl has won numerous awards for his sculptures, Mrs. Samedov was a wonderful math teacher and cared about her students. Mr. Ward was a wonderful teacher too. There were many others as well that I thought really helped to prepare me for college. Some parents might be upset because these teachers did not hand out A's which many FCPS kids just expect, rather these teachers challenged their students.
As to property values and your kids having to make new friends, I wouldn't worry about it, this is Fairfax County, everyone wants to live there and when the metro comes to Reston, property values will be sky high. Plus, your kids should have good enough social skills to make new friends and South Lakes is a friendly place. Well I have other things I need to do just thought I'd put in my perspective.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Letsgoseahawks
()
Date: November 10, 2007 04:07PM
Oh I forgot to add the other thing that's great about South Lakes is that because it is underpopulated students can be involved in so many clubs, student activities and sports without the competition. I played sports throughout high school and sure our team did not win very much but I got to play the varsity level and at other schools I probably would've been on the bench all season or would've been cut from the team. But of course, not all our sports teams are bad go to a varsity men's basketball game. If its not sold out go to the one against Herndon and you'll see what South Lakes is all about ... we have lots of school spirit. If your child is a great athlete don't worry college recruiters come to our school too don't forget about Grant Hill and Alan Webb plus the numerous other athletes I know who are playing for their colleges. Oh yeah our women's swim team is really good too or at least was when I was there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:00PM
Letsgoseahawks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a South Lakes graduate and recieved my IB
> diploma and currently attend UVA. (go hoos) I
> have browsed this site just a little bit.
Nice to have SL Verity's child join us.
> I have
> better things to do than spend my whole day
> bashing SL (T Moore) when your own children went
> there.
Please note the correct spelling of my last time, its on every post. My kids are still at SL. Blind loyalty to a dysfunctional institution hurts the current student body.
> I was there when Mrs. Rodriguez was the
> principal and although she was not my favorite, I
> think she was a positive influence on SL.
That's why she was fired. This is the second person to say something good about Realista in 41 pages of posting. The consensus is against you on this score.
> And I
> hear that Mr. Butler is doing a wonderful job.
So he wasn't your class's Asst. Principal when you were there. Most of the kids who had him as an AP that I've spoken with speak ill of him. His ratings on Ratemyteacher are not very high.
> The implementation of the IB program is one of the
> best things that has happened to UVA.
They have IB at UVA?
> I was shocked in my mandatory writing class to
> talk to AP students that had not written a single
> essay in high school and had no idea how to write
> a sentence.
Whole language strikes again. It was an educational fad when you were in elementary school. Kids weren't taught grammar. Blame whole language not AP.
> Finally, the adminstration at South Lakes is
> top notch at least the IB teachers are I cannot
> attest for the other teachers.
You mean the instructional staff, I think.
> Ms. Zylka was a
> wonderful English teacher, Mr, Ravenstahl has won
> numerous awards for his sculptures, Mrs. Samedov
> was a wonderful math teacher and cared about her
> students. Mr. Ward was a wonderful teacher too.
> There were many others as well that I thought
> really helped to prepare me for college.
this is very helpful, seriously, thank you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a South Lakes graduate and recieved my IB
> diploma and currently attend UVA. (go hoos) I
> have browsed this site just a little bit.
Nice to have SL Verity's child join us.
> I have
> better things to do than spend my whole day
> bashing SL (T Moore) when your own children went
> there.
Please note the correct spelling of my last time, its on every post. My kids are still at SL. Blind loyalty to a dysfunctional institution hurts the current student body.
> I was there when Mrs. Rodriguez was the
> principal and although she was not my favorite, I
> think she was a positive influence on SL.
That's why she was fired. This is the second person to say something good about Realista in 41 pages of posting. The consensus is against you on this score.
> And I
> hear that Mr. Butler is doing a wonderful job.
So he wasn't your class's Asst. Principal when you were there. Most of the kids who had him as an AP that I've spoken with speak ill of him. His ratings on Ratemyteacher are not very high.
> The implementation of the IB program is one of the
> best things that has happened to UVA.
They have IB at UVA?
> I was shocked in my mandatory writing class to
> talk to AP students that had not written a single
> essay in high school and had no idea how to write
> a sentence.
Whole language strikes again. It was an educational fad when you were in elementary school. Kids weren't taught grammar. Blame whole language not AP.
> Finally, the adminstration at South Lakes is
> top notch at least the IB teachers are I cannot
> attest for the other teachers.
You mean the instructional staff, I think.
> Ms. Zylka was a
> wonderful English teacher, Mr, Ravenstahl has won
> numerous awards for his sculptures, Mrs. Samedov
> was a wonderful math teacher and cared about her
> students. Mr. Ward was a wonderful teacher too.
> There were many others as well that I thought
> really helped to prepare me for college.
this is very helpful, seriously, thank you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WaHooWa
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:20PM
Thomas Moore, have you measured your blood pressure today?
Why are you attacking fellow Seahawks, especially ones from UVA? You bash pro-SL folks and suck up to people like Neen. I'm beginning to think you might just be a plant from Oakton trying to stir up trouble.
Why are you attacking fellow Seahawks, especially ones from UVA? You bash pro-SL folks and suck up to people like Neen. I'm beginning to think you might just be a plant from Oakton trying to stir up trouble.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:24PM
Letsgoseahawks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh I forgot to add the other thing that's great
> about South Lakes is that because it is
> underpopulated students can be involved in so many
> clubs, student activities and sports without the
> competition. I played sports throughout high
> school and sure our team did not win very much but
> I got to play the varsity level and at other
> schools I probably would've been on the bench all
> season or would've been cut from the team. But of
> course, not all our sports teams are bad go to a
> varsity men's basketball game. If its not sold
> out go to the one against Herndon and you'll see
> what South Lakes is all about ... we have lots of
> school spirit. If your child is a great athlete
> don't worry college recruiters come to our school
> too don't forget about Grant Hill and Alan Webb
> plus the numerous other athletes I know who are
> playing for their colleges. Oh yeah our women's
> swim team is really good too or at least was when
> I was there.
So you put more kids there and the students at South Lakes who have been the starting athletes, the first chairs, the leads in the play will all have to compete for those spots and they won't be happy then either. And they will be competing for football spots against kids from Westfield? So is it better to play on an okay team or sit the bench on a good one?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh I forgot to add the other thing that's great
> about South Lakes is that because it is
> underpopulated students can be involved in so many
> clubs, student activities and sports without the
> competition. I played sports throughout high
> school and sure our team did not win very much but
> I got to play the varsity level and at other
> schools I probably would've been on the bench all
> season or would've been cut from the team. But of
> course, not all our sports teams are bad go to a
> varsity men's basketball game. If its not sold
> out go to the one against Herndon and you'll see
> what South Lakes is all about ... we have lots of
> school spirit. If your child is a great athlete
> don't worry college recruiters come to our school
> too don't forget about Grant Hill and Alan Webb
> plus the numerous other athletes I know who are
> playing for their colleges. Oh yeah our women's
> swim team is really good too or at least was when
> I was there.
So you put more kids there and the students at South Lakes who have been the starting athletes, the first chairs, the leads in the play will all have to compete for those spots and they won't be happy then either. And they will be competing for football spots against kids from Westfield? So is it better to play on an okay team or sit the bench on a good one?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Letsgoseahawks
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:30PM
First of all I am not SL Verity's child I have no idea who SL Verity is. Second of all you are not good at spelling people's names so I'll refer to you T Moore. Next, Mr. Butler WAS my subschool principal. Next, that was a typo I meant to say that IB was one of the best things that happened to South Lakes I'll admit my mistakes you should admit your factual errors. I'm sorry I meant to say that both SL's admins and faculty are top notch. Is Ratemyteachers really a good source for whether or not a teacher is good or not? Shouldn't you look at facts and figures and not websites that are about gossip? I'm just trying to say that I liked South Lakes when I went there and other parent's shouldn't be so worried about sending their kids there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:31PM
hmmm07,
Do you really want to discourage articulate students from posting here? Instead, welcome the input from those on the front lines. You just might learn something about the typical Seahawk.
An no, that's not my child.
Do you really want to discourage articulate students from posting here? Instead, welcome the input from those on the front lines. You just might learn something about the typical Seahawk.
An no, that's not my child.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:38PM
WaHooWa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas Moore, have you measured your blood
> pressure today?
>
> Why are you attacking fellow Seahawks, especially
> ones from UVA? You bash pro-SL folks and suck up
> to people like Neen. I'm beginning to think you
> might just be a plant from Oakton trying to stir
> up trouble.
Another refugee from Mr. Jefferson's country club. Are you SLVErity's other child?
If you take the time to actually review the handout for Monday's meeting, the link to which was posted today by Cricket, you'd see this process for the perfidy it is.
SL is a dysfunctional institution thanks to the negligence of Stu. While others want to admire the emperor's new clothes, I see what SL could have been with a good principal and a School Board member who was more interested in the kids at SL than a lobbying career on Capitol Hill.
Does that clarify things for you?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas Moore, have you measured your blood
> pressure today?
>
> Why are you attacking fellow Seahawks, especially
> ones from UVA? You bash pro-SL folks and suck up
> to people like Neen. I'm beginning to think you
> might just be a plant from Oakton trying to stir
> up trouble.
Another refugee from Mr. Jefferson's country club. Are you SLVErity's other child?
If you take the time to actually review the handout for Monday's meeting, the link to which was posted today by Cricket, you'd see this process for the perfidy it is.
SL is a dysfunctional institution thanks to the negligence of Stu. While others want to admire the emperor's new clothes, I see what SL could have been with a good principal and a School Board member who was more interested in the kids at SL than a lobbying career on Capitol Hill.
Does that clarify things for you?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:45PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It might be true that they've already decided
> > who's going and who's not. But I think the
> > Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> > open.
> >
> > So if parents want to influence these issues, a
> > rational discussion and substantive argument
> will
> > go a lot further than chanting,
>
> I'd like to believe that. However, maybe we can do
> a good parent/bad parent thing. All those who want
> to chant, go ahead and do it with gusto, then the
> "rational" parents can work on the real
> negotiations (AP, grandfathering..). I just have
> this nagging feeling that it will be hard to
> enforce the promises. If we roll over and agree to
> go without making a huge stink about it, and the
> SB agrees to add courses, etc., then a year from
> now our kids are showing up, and holy smokes, 90%
> of the new courses haven't materialized.
>
They decide the boundaries first. Then they make the promises about everything else.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 05:45PM by Cricket.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It might be true that they've already decided
> > who's going and who's not. But I think the
> > Grandfathering and the AP discussions are still
> > open.
> >
> > So if parents want to influence these issues, a
> > rational discussion and substantive argument
> will
> > go a lot further than chanting,
>
> I'd like to believe that. However, maybe we can do
> a good parent/bad parent thing. All those who want
> to chant, go ahead and do it with gusto, then the
> "rational" parents can work on the real
> negotiations (AP, grandfathering..). I just have
> this nagging feeling that it will be hard to
> enforce the promises. If we roll over and agree to
> go without making a huge stink about it, and the
> SB agrees to add courses, etc., then a year from
> now our kids are showing up, and holy smokes, 90%
> of the new courses haven't materialized.
>
They decide the boundaries first. Then they make the promises about everything else.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 05:45PM by Cricket.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:46PM
It clarifies what has been clear for weeks: You got a lot of bones that you chew on, and your credibility is pretty low, b/c you gnaw so relentlessly.
We have kids who are there now, and know that it is a much improved place (on what wasn't a lost cause before, notwithstanding Railly). So when you rant on about Stu, Bruce, Linda Jones, and others who have crossed (or disagreed with) you, or try to demean smart kids who weigh in with less than perfect grammar -- we have tuned you out.....too bad, because you often bring up interesting facts and notes on issues that have to be addressed as we all go forward.
We have kids who are there now, and know that it is a much improved place (on what wasn't a lost cause before, notwithstanding Railly). So when you rant on about Stu, Bruce, Linda Jones, and others who have crossed (or disagreed with) you, or try to demean smart kids who weigh in with less than perfect grammar -- we have tuned you out.....too bad, because you often bring up interesting facts and notes on issues that have to be addressed as we all go forward.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:47PM
Letsgoseahawks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all I am not SL Verity's child I have no
> idea who SL Verity is. Second of all you are not
> good at spelling people's names so I'll refer to
> you T Moore.
Guess they're not teaching manners at the county club either. Any misspellings on my part are have been unitentional, except for Ellenbarfer
> Next, that was a typo I meant to say
> that IB was one of the best things that happened
> to South Lakes I'll admit my mistakes you should
> admit your factual errors.
When they are identified, I have.
> Is Ratemyteachers really a good source for
> whether or not a teacher is good or not?
> Shouldn't you look at facts and figures and not
> websites that are about gossip?
It does suggest your opinions are in the minority. Short of paying for a public opinion poll, it is the best we have.
> I'm just trying
> to say that I liked South Lakes when I went there
> and other parent's shouldn't be so worried about
> sending their kids there.
I'm glad. Understand it was a nightmare for too many of your classmates.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 05:48PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all I am not SL Verity's child I have no
> idea who SL Verity is. Second of all you are not
> good at spelling people's names so I'll refer to
> you T Moore.
Guess they're not teaching manners at the county club either. Any misspellings on my part are have been unitentional, except for Ellenbarfer
> Next, that was a typo I meant to say
> that IB was one of the best things that happened
> to South Lakes I'll admit my mistakes you should
> admit your factual errors.
When they are identified, I have.
> Is Ratemyteachers really a good source for
> whether or not a teacher is good or not?
> Shouldn't you look at facts and figures and not
> websites that are about gossip?
It does suggest your opinions are in the minority. Short of paying for a public opinion poll, it is the best we have.
> I'm just trying
> to say that I liked South Lakes when I went there
> and other parent's shouldn't be so worried about
> sending their kids there.
I'm glad. Understand it was a nightmare for too many of your classmates.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 05:48PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WaHooWa
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:50PM
Dear Mr. Moore,
Since you think this is all a potemkin village sham, why don't you just mosey on off this site? Your posts have absolutely no impact except to annoy since the outcome has already been predetermined, if what you say is correct.
You still haven't explained why you hate UVa so much. Actually, please don't bother. We don't want to hear it.
Speaking of dysfunctional, have you looked in the mirror lately? Letsgoseahawks has already stated that he/she is not Verity's child, and since I am too old to be the child of anyone on this site, I have to conclude that you are suffering from some sort of paranoid syndrome. Maybe you should get some help for that.
I know, you can start a new forum called "Tom Moore is a delusional, ranting idiot." I'll bet you'd get a lot of hits. Or how about another forum called, "I'm a liberal, but I hate Stu." That one would probably be popular, too.
Since you think this is all a potemkin village sham, why don't you just mosey on off this site? Your posts have absolutely no impact except to annoy since the outcome has already been predetermined, if what you say is correct.
You still haven't explained why you hate UVa so much. Actually, please don't bother. We don't want to hear it.
Speaking of dysfunctional, have you looked in the mirror lately? Letsgoseahawks has already stated that he/she is not Verity's child, and since I am too old to be the child of anyone on this site, I have to conclude that you are suffering from some sort of paranoid syndrome. Maybe you should get some help for that.
I know, you can start a new forum called "Tom Moore is a delusional, ranting idiot." I'll bet you'd get a lot of hits. Or how about another forum called, "I'm a liberal, but I hate Stu." That one would probably be popular, too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:53PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It clarifies what has been clear for weeks: You
> got a lot of bones that you chew on, and your
> credibility is pretty low, b/c you gnaw so
> relentlessly.
>
> We have kids who are there now, and know that it
> is a much improved place (on what wasn't a lost
> cause before, notwithstanding Railly).
How is it improved? People keep saying that yet only a few give examples of good things Bruce has done.
> So when
> you rant on about Stu, Bruce, Linda Jones, and
> others who have crossed (or disagreed with) you,
> or try to demean smart kids who weigh in with less
> than perfect grammar -- we have tuned you
> out.....too bad, because you often bring up
> interesting facts and notes on issues that have
> to be addressed as we all go forward.
Apparently, not since you just replied.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It clarifies what has been clear for weeks: You
> got a lot of bones that you chew on, and your
> credibility is pretty low, b/c you gnaw so
> relentlessly.
>
> We have kids who are there now, and know that it
> is a much improved place (on what wasn't a lost
> cause before, notwithstanding Railly).
How is it improved? People keep saying that yet only a few give examples of good things Bruce has done.
> So when
> you rant on about Stu, Bruce, Linda Jones, and
> others who have crossed (or disagreed with) you,
> or try to demean smart kids who weigh in with less
> than perfect grammar -- we have tuned you
> out.....too bad, because you often bring up
> interesting facts and notes on issues that have
> to be addressed as we all go forward.
Apparently, not since you just replied.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WaHoooWa
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:55PM
ur a jerk
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 05:58PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07,
>
> Do you really want to discourage articulate
> students from posting here? Instead, welcome the
> input from those on the front lines. You just
> might learn something about the typical Seahawk.
>
>
> An no, that's not my child.
Of course I do not want to discourage any students, articulate or not, from posting here. I DO welcome his input. As a matter of fact, particular student raised a great point. That was that one of the benefits to attending an underenrolled school was that the kids who want to play get to play. Why was pointing out that by moving Westfield and/or Oakton kids to SL, that benefit will possibly disappear at all discouraging to a student?
And I never said it was your child, nor did that thought ever cross my mind...not sure why you felt compelled to make a statement about it. But whatever.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07,
>
> Do you really want to discourage articulate
> students from posting here? Instead, welcome the
> input from those on the front lines. You just
> might learn something about the typical Seahawk.
>
>
> An no, that's not my child.
Of course I do not want to discourage any students, articulate or not, from posting here. I DO welcome his input. As a matter of fact, particular student raised a great point. That was that one of the benefits to attending an underenrolled school was that the kids who want to play get to play. Why was pointing out that by moving Westfield and/or Oakton kids to SL, that benefit will possibly disappear at all discouraging to a student?
And I never said it was your child, nor did that thought ever cross my mind...not sure why you felt compelled to make a statement about it. But whatever.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:02PM
WaHooWa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Mr. Moore,
You either can't read, or are just gratuitously rude.
>
> Since you think this is all a potemkin village
> sham
That was redundant.
> why don't you just mosey on off this site?
> Your posts have absolutely no impact except to
> annoy since the outcome has already been
> predetermined, if what you say is correct.
they're bothering you enough to be rude and display your ignorance.
> You still haven't explained why you hate UVa so
> much. Actually, please don't bother. We don't
> want to hear it.
> Speaking of dysfunctional, have you looked in the
> mirror lately?
So clever. Think that up all by yourself.
> Letsgoseahawks has already stated
> that he/she is not Verity's child,
There sometimes is a time delay between drafting and posting.
> and since I am
> too old to be the child of anyone on this site, I
> have to conclude that you are suffering from some
> sort of paranoid syndrome. Maybe you should get
> some help for that.
Thanks Dr. Frist you can remotely diagnosis like the owner of HCA too, hey.
> I know, you can start a new forum called "Tom
> Moore is a delusional, ranting idiot." I'll bet
> you'd get a lot of hits. Or how about another
> forum called, "I'm a liberal, but I hate Stu."
> That one would probably be popular, too.
Is this really the best that an education at the Charlottesville day school can produce? Too bad.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Mr. Moore,
You either can't read, or are just gratuitously rude.
>
> Since you think this is all a potemkin village
> sham
That was redundant.
> why don't you just mosey on off this site?
> Your posts have absolutely no impact except to
> annoy since the outcome has already been
> predetermined, if what you say is correct.
they're bothering you enough to be rude and display your ignorance.
> You still haven't explained why you hate UVa so
> much. Actually, please don't bother. We don't
> want to hear it.
> Speaking of dysfunctional, have you looked in the
> mirror lately?
So clever. Think that up all by yourself.
> Letsgoseahawks has already stated
> that he/she is not Verity's child,
There sometimes is a time delay between drafting and posting.
> and since I am
> too old to be the child of anyone on this site, I
> have to conclude that you are suffering from some
> sort of paranoid syndrome. Maybe you should get
> some help for that.
Thanks Dr. Frist you can remotely diagnosis like the owner of HCA too, hey.
> I know, you can start a new forum called "Tom
> Moore is a delusional, ranting idiot." I'll bet
> you'd get a lot of hits. Or how about another
> forum called, "I'm a liberal, but I hate Stu."
> That one would probably be popular, too.
Is this really the best that an education at the Charlottesville day school can produce? Too bad.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:04PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> And I never said it was your child, nor did that
> thought ever cross my mind...not sure why you felt
> compelled to make a statement about it. But
> whatever.
Many apologies for confusing issues. I was really saying that for the benefit of another poster who seems to think that I've got legions of children posting here. I am sorry about that.
I think the point you raise about under-enrollment is valid; however, the benefits mentioned quite well by letsgoseahawks are outweighed by the need to have more kids on our teams, in our music groups, more classes offered, etc. In my opinion, Westfield is too large and SL is too small. A better balance occurs when numbers are more like Oakton's. Also, it allows teams competing with each other to be more evenly matched.
As a parent, I think it also brings in more volunteers so that the bulk of volunteering is not done by one small group.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> And I never said it was your child, nor did that
> thought ever cross my mind...not sure why you felt
> compelled to make a statement about it. But
> whatever.
Many apologies for confusing issues. I was really saying that for the benefit of another poster who seems to think that I've got legions of children posting here. I am sorry about that.
I think the point you raise about under-enrollment is valid; however, the benefits mentioned quite well by letsgoseahawks are outweighed by the need to have more kids on our teams, in our music groups, more classes offered, etc. In my opinion, Westfield is too large and SL is too small. A better balance occurs when numbers are more like Oakton's. Also, it allows teams competing with each other to be more evenly matched.
As a parent, I think it also brings in more volunteers so that the bulk of volunteering is not done by one small group.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:04PM
WaHoooWa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ur a jerk
Another example of the glories of a UVA education.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ur a jerk
Another example of the glories of a UVA education.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:14PM
OSLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > And I never said it was your child, nor did
> that
> > thought ever cross my mind...not sure why you
> felt
> > compelled to make a statement about it. But
> > whatever.
>
> Many apologies for confusing issues. I was really
> saying that for the benefit of another poster who
> seems to think that I've got legions of children
> posting here. I am sorry about that.
>
> I think the point you raise about under-enrollment
> is valid; however, the benefits mentioned quite
> well by letsgoseahawks are outweighed by the need
> to have more kids on our teams, in our music
> groups, more classes offered, etc. In my
> opinion, Westfield is too large and SL is too
> small. A better balance occurs when numbers are
> more like Oakton's. Also, it allows teams
> competing with each other to be more evenly
> matched.
>
> As a parent, I think it also brings in more
> volunteers so that the bulk of volunteering is not
> done by one small group.
Okay, I can live with that. So let's just deal with Westfield and South Lakes and leave Oakton alone since we apparently both agree the numbers at Oakton are optimal. Deal? :)
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > And I never said it was your child, nor did
> that
> > thought ever cross my mind...not sure why you
> felt
> > compelled to make a statement about it. But
> > whatever.
>
> Many apologies for confusing issues. I was really
> saying that for the benefit of another poster who
> seems to think that I've got legions of children
> posting here. I am sorry about that.
>
> I think the point you raise about under-enrollment
> is valid; however, the benefits mentioned quite
> well by letsgoseahawks are outweighed by the need
> to have more kids on our teams, in our music
> groups, more classes offered, etc. In my
> opinion, Westfield is too large and SL is too
> small. A better balance occurs when numbers are
> more like Oakton's. Also, it allows teams
> competing with each other to be more evenly
> matched.
>
> As a parent, I think it also brings in more
> volunteers so that the bulk of volunteering is not
> done by one small group.
Okay, I can live with that. So let's just deal with Westfield and South Lakes and leave Oakton alone since we apparently both agree the numbers at Oakton are optimal. Deal? :)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:17PM
Hmmm7, I wish it were that easy. There are other factors to consider which have been discussed here previously (e.g., attendance islands, demographics, etc.). :) to you, too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:34PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It clarifies what has been clear for weeks:
> You
> > got a lot of bones that you chew on, and your
> > credibility is pretty low, b/c you gnaw so
> > relentlessly.
> >
> > We have kids who are there now, and know that
> it
> > is a much improved place (on what wasn't a lost
> > cause before, notwithstanding Railly).
>
> How is it improved? People keep saying that yet
> only a few give examples of good things Bruce has
> done.
>
> > So when
> > you rant on about Stu, Bruce, Linda Jones, and
> > others who have crossed (or disagreed with)
> you,
> > or try to demean smart kids who weigh in with
> less
> > than perfect grammar -- we have tuned you
> > out.....too bad, because you often bring up
> > interesting facts and notes on issues that
> have
> > to be addressed as we all go forward.
>
> Apparently, not since you just replied.
Let me clarify further.
I now approach your posts from the "which bone is he gnawing now" (note: the list grows longer by day -- your venom is particularly focused on UVA today; we haven't gotten a sense of which supermarket has failed you yet, nor which pro football team deserves utter scorn....but we will, I am certain). Which means I am surprised when you post something constructive and well-tempered. So I still read, but don't take you seriously.
I was tempted to reply earlier when you suggested that we (people who opined that chanting at a public meeting might be inappropriate, childish and self-centered) are ripe for sexual violation or annihilation, but I had to rake leaves.
We (collectively, the posters) have mentioned good math teachers, English teachers, French teachers; good field hockey, lacrosse, swimming coaches, and freshman footballers; Its Academic success; doubled IB Diploma candidates; comparability with other FCPS schools on AP/IP test performance; SLHS grads with positive experience with IB; more accountability on timeliness and attendance, et fricking cetera...and you still are demanding specifics on what people see as positives and cause for satisfaction and optimism?>???
Get real. Your mind is made up, and now you even go after the SLHS kids you used to champion. Stale bread.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It clarifies what has been clear for weeks:
> You
> > got a lot of bones that you chew on, and your
> > credibility is pretty low, b/c you gnaw so
> > relentlessly.
> >
> > We have kids who are there now, and know that
> it
> > is a much improved place (on what wasn't a lost
> > cause before, notwithstanding Railly).
>
> How is it improved? People keep saying that yet
> only a few give examples of good things Bruce has
> done.
>
> > So when
> > you rant on about Stu, Bruce, Linda Jones, and
> > others who have crossed (or disagreed with)
> you,
> > or try to demean smart kids who weigh in with
> less
> > than perfect grammar -- we have tuned you
> > out.....too bad, because you often bring up
> > interesting facts and notes on issues that
> have
> > to be addressed as we all go forward.
>
> Apparently, not since you just replied.
Let me clarify further.
I now approach your posts from the "which bone is he gnawing now" (note: the list grows longer by day -- your venom is particularly focused on UVA today; we haven't gotten a sense of which supermarket has failed you yet, nor which pro football team deserves utter scorn....but we will, I am certain). Which means I am surprised when you post something constructive and well-tempered. So I still read, but don't take you seriously.
I was tempted to reply earlier when you suggested that we (people who opined that chanting at a public meeting might be inappropriate, childish and self-centered) are ripe for sexual violation or annihilation, but I had to rake leaves.
We (collectively, the posters) have mentioned good math teachers, English teachers, French teachers; good field hockey, lacrosse, swimming coaches, and freshman footballers; Its Academic success; doubled IB Diploma candidates; comparability with other FCPS schools on AP/IP test performance; SLHS grads with positive experience with IB; more accountability on timeliness and attendance, et fricking cetera...and you still are demanding specifics on what people see as positives and cause for satisfaction and optimism?>???
Get real. Your mind is made up, and now you even go after the SLHS kids you used to champion. Stale bread.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:49PM
Padre, some people aren't even glass half empty types, but rather glass IS empty types. One might call them toxic personalities. Thankfully, I'm pretty sure they don't show up at public forums. We can't change them so we should probably just ignore them. As God is my witness, I will not respond to certain miserable souls any more. Anyone else care to join me in adopting this tack?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 06:53PM by SLVerity.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 06:53PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:51PM
SLV,
I already have
I already have
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 07:02PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have mentioned English teachers,
Like the one who expected her class to read The Crucible over a weekend and take a test on its entire contents at the following class meetiing.
> good field hockey,
More about her later
> lacrosse,
there is no girls lacrosse coach
> swimming coaches,
pre-dates Raillly and stuck it out. Coach Brown is a saint to many.
> more
> accountability on timeliness and attendance,
which post was this?
> and you still are demanding
> specifics on what people see as positives and
> cause for satisfaction and optimism?>???
Although it was only three lines, it's all good advertising for SL for folks who are only reading this post. Nothing I've written compares to what you'll hear Monday night.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 07:04PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have mentioned English teachers,
Like the one who expected her class to read The Crucible over a weekend and take a test on its entire contents at the following class meetiing.
> good field hockey,
More about her later
> lacrosse,
there is no girls lacrosse coach
> swimming coaches,
pre-dates Raillly and stuck it out. Coach Brown is a saint to many.
> more
> accountability on timeliness and attendance,
which post was this?
> and you still are demanding
> specifics on what people see as positives and
> cause for satisfaction and optimism?>???
Although it was only three lines, it's all good advertising for SL for folks who are only reading this post. Nothing I've written compares to what you'll hear Monday night.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 07:04PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 07:12PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Adios means good bye in Spanish, Thought you'd left this thread permanently.
Given the small number of SL IB diploma grads who also went to UVA, the odds were on my side,
So unlike Nixon we will have you to kick around some more.
Other than conceding that Fox Mill and McNair will be relocated into SL and accepting the permanent partition of Reston into two high schools, what other indignities do you intend to impose on those of us who still have kids at SL? IB Phys Ed.?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
Adios means good bye in Spanish, Thought you'd left this thread permanently.
Given the small number of SL IB diploma grads who also went to UVA, the odds were on my side,
So unlike Nixon we will have you to kick around some more.
Other than conceding that Fox Mill and McNair will be relocated into SL and accepting the permanent partition of Reston into two high schools, what other indignities do you intend to impose on those of us who still have kids at SL? IB Phys Ed.?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 07:15PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLV,
> I already have
But you'll keep sending those PMs, right?
Have you conceded Fox Mill and McNair, too? Given up on reuniting Reston into one high school?
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 07:17PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLV,
> I already have
But you'll keep sending those PMs, right?
Have you conceded Fox Mill and McNair, too? Given up on reuniting Reston into one high school?
More Later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 07:17PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 08:29PM
Has everyone seen these instructions at the beginners link from the Forum List page?
[Trolls]
Do not feed the trolls.
As with any anonymous forum, people will sometimes make inflammatory remarks for the pleasure of getting a reaction. These posters are called trolls. Please do not give them the pleasure of a response, they don't deserve it. Ignore them completely and go on with the discussion as if they never posted. Without the anticipated slew of angry responses trolls will get bored and leave.
Please do not let the trolls deter you from posting.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 08:30PM by SLVerity.
[Trolls]
Do not feed the trolls.
As with any anonymous forum, people will sometimes make inflammatory remarks for the pleasure of getting a reaction. These posters are called trolls. Please do not give them the pleasure of a response, they don't deserve it. Ignore them completely and go on with the discussion as if they never posted. Without the anticipated slew of angry responses trolls will get bored and leave.
Please do not let the trolls deter you from posting.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 08:30PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
LOLA Espanola
()
Date: November 10, 2007 08:40PM
I am interested in the gang topic. I recently attended a workshop given by a Fairfax County police officer. He said that there is a "gang presence" note the word presence, in every single Fairfax County public high school, except TJ. I am sure the SRO's are great, but I don't know that I would trust that information as completely unbiased. My question is not if there is a gang presence/activity in a school, but what is done about it if there is? Are the kids expelled if they are found engaged in gang activity, or does the school try to "work with them?" There are alternative schools in FCPS that work with kids who aren't able to succeed in a traditional school environment. While there may be a standard FCPS policy on how to handle gang related incidents, I would be surprised if it was enforced equally across all schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 10, 2007 08:46PM
Lola, I can only speak for South Lakes. It is my understanding that if a student engages in gang activity at the school, they are immediately and permanently removed. A great deal of time is spent there identifying at-risk students and trying to intervene before a child is lost to the gang culture. From what I have read in the local papers and at Frank Wolfe's Gang Task Force website, recent efforts have resulted in a drop in gang activity in Fairfax County.
I hope others who know more than I will let you know.
I hope others who know more than I will let you know.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 09:28PM
LOLA Espanola Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> am sure the SRO's are great, but I don't know that
> I would trust that information as completely
> unbiased.
why?
Call Lt. Hill, the commanding officer at the Reston precinct.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 09:34PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> am sure the SRO's are great, but I don't know that
> I would trust that information as completely
> unbiased.
why?
Call Lt. Hill, the commanding officer at the Reston precinct.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 09:34PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 09:41PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lola, I can only speak for South Lakes.
You don't speak for South Lakes. Though I know you think you do. You haven't had a kid at South Lakes in three years.
None of us speak for SL.
My kids who dealt with Bruce describe him as an inflexible disciplinarian which may be why the statistics are higher at SL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 09:42PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lola, I can only speak for South Lakes.
You don't speak for South Lakes. Though I know you think you do. You haven't had a kid at South Lakes in three years.
None of us speak for SL.
My kids who dealt with Bruce describe him as an inflexible disciplinarian which may be why the statistics are higher at SL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 09:42PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
LOLA Espanola
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:02PM
Hey Tom:
A couple of issues about the McNair area. It seems like you have a lot of access to data on housing (maybe that's your field and you are divulging confidential information, as you are a court-recognized expert). Anyway, why don't you develop a measure of "vestedness in your community" why not look at a measure related to ratio of renters vs. homeowners in a given area. While anyone can point out that there are wonderful families who are renters, and terrible families who are homeonwners, on average there seems to be a belief that homeowners are more vested in their communites, if for no other reason than to maintain the value of their investment. In terms of the housing stock south of the Toll Road that feeds into McNair, what do you think the ratio of tenants vs. homeowners is? I too, have many friends in that particular area who happen to be renters, especially in the townhouses. Also, I know that there are a lot of families who have immigrated to the US. It is common in many immigrant communities to have extended family live with more established family members while they settle in to a new community. --Please don't turn this into a pro or anti immigration post - it is simply a statement of what I have observed on many occasions over many years across many cultures. -- Just look at the stores in the Clocktower. Those households may be owner-occupied, but they may also have some long-term guests as well. Those children are able to attend McNair. Anyway, I think that in general, children who have experienced a high number of household moves or changes are going to have a harder time academically than those who have lived in the same place their entire life - yes, I am sure there are exceptions... Single family home or apartment or townhouse. Also, what I've seen with a lot of the wonderful families who live in the McNair area is that they start out renting, then realize how expensive it is to buy in the area, and then move to Loudoun County where they can buy a single family home. Thus, a new vacancy in the McNair Farms district is open. A new child to start a new school and it starts again.
A couple of issues about the McNair area. It seems like you have a lot of access to data on housing (maybe that's your field and you are divulging confidential information, as you are a court-recognized expert). Anyway, why don't you develop a measure of "vestedness in your community" why not look at a measure related to ratio of renters vs. homeowners in a given area. While anyone can point out that there are wonderful families who are renters, and terrible families who are homeonwners, on average there seems to be a belief that homeowners are more vested in their communites, if for no other reason than to maintain the value of their investment. In terms of the housing stock south of the Toll Road that feeds into McNair, what do you think the ratio of tenants vs. homeowners is? I too, have many friends in that particular area who happen to be renters, especially in the townhouses. Also, I know that there are a lot of families who have immigrated to the US. It is common in many immigrant communities to have extended family live with more established family members while they settle in to a new community. --Please don't turn this into a pro or anti immigration post - it is simply a statement of what I have observed on many occasions over many years across many cultures. -- Just look at the stores in the Clocktower. Those households may be owner-occupied, but they may also have some long-term guests as well. Those children are able to attend McNair. Anyway, I think that in general, children who have experienced a high number of household moves or changes are going to have a harder time academically than those who have lived in the same place their entire life - yes, I am sure there are exceptions... Single family home or apartment or townhouse. Also, what I've seen with a lot of the wonderful families who live in the McNair area is that they start out renting, then realize how expensive it is to buy in the area, and then move to Loudoun County where they can buy a single family home. Thus, a new vacancy in the McNair Farms district is open. A new child to start a new school and it starts again.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:32PM
LOLA Espanola Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyway, why don't you
> develop a measure of "vestedness in your
> community" why not look at a measure related to
> ratio of renters vs. homeowners in a given area.
What would such a measure tell you?
> there
> seems to be a belief that homeowners are more
> vested in their communites, if for no other reason
> than to maintain the value of their investment.
But we already know that the average homeowner moves every 4 years.
> I
> think that in general, children who have
> experienced a high number of household moves or
> changes are going to have a harder time
> academically than those who have lived in the same
> place their entire life - yes, I am sure there are
> exceptions...
Like every child of the military, every child of a foreign service officer, every child of a multinational corporate executive. There are lots more examples.
> how
> expensive it is to buy in the area, and then move
> to Loudoun County where they can buy a single
> family home.
Actually because of its exclusionary zoning policies, patterned after FFX's, Loudoun is too expensive. The renters from McNair are buying in Winchester, Martinsburg, WV and Harrisburg, PA. Go to the parking lot at what used to be MCI World.com. An amazing percentage of those employee's cars are registered in WV, MD and PA. And at night their income taxes go to Charleton, WV, Annapolis, MD and Harrisburg, PA and not Richmond. Exclusionary zoning practices in Northern VA are making it hard to sustain a business here.
> Thus, a new vacancy in the McNair
> Farms district is open. A new child to start a
> new school and it starts again.
I'm not sure where this gets us.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyway, why don't you
> develop a measure of "vestedness in your
> community" why not look at a measure related to
> ratio of renters vs. homeowners in a given area.
What would such a measure tell you?
> there
> seems to be a belief that homeowners are more
> vested in their communites, if for no other reason
> than to maintain the value of their investment.
But we already know that the average homeowner moves every 4 years.
> I
> think that in general, children who have
> experienced a high number of household moves or
> changes are going to have a harder time
> academically than those who have lived in the same
> place their entire life - yes, I am sure there are
> exceptions...
Like every child of the military, every child of a foreign service officer, every child of a multinational corporate executive. There are lots more examples.
> how
> expensive it is to buy in the area, and then move
> to Loudoun County where they can buy a single
> family home.
Actually because of its exclusionary zoning policies, patterned after FFX's, Loudoun is too expensive. The renters from McNair are buying in Winchester, Martinsburg, WV and Harrisburg, PA. Go to the parking lot at what used to be MCI World.com. An amazing percentage of those employee's cars are registered in WV, MD and PA. And at night their income taxes go to Charleton, WV, Annapolis, MD and Harrisburg, PA and not Richmond. Exclusionary zoning practices in Northern VA are making it hard to sustain a business here.
> Thus, a new vacancy in the McNair
> Farms district is open. A new child to start a
> new school and it starts again.
I'm not sure where this gets us.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 10:57PM
Looking at the numbers in the handout only two combinations get SL the numbers needed:
Madison Island, Fox Mill and McNair (south of the Toll Road) - 737 kids
Madison Island, Fox Mill and Aldrin - 670
the other combinations discussed on this blog generate too many kids for SL.
Madison Island, Floris and McNair (south of the Toll Road) - 885
Madison Island, Fox Mill and Crossfield - 937
My perferred outcome generates too few kids,
Madison Island, Aldrin, Armstrong - 537
More Later
Madison Island, Fox Mill and McNair (south of the Toll Road) - 737 kids
Madison Island, Fox Mill and Aldrin - 670
the other combinations discussed on this blog generate too many kids for SL.
Madison Island, Floris and McNair (south of the Toll Road) - 885
Madison Island, Fox Mill and Crossfield - 937
My perferred outcome generates too few kids,
Madison Island, Aldrin, Armstrong - 537
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
word
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:03PM
> But we already know that the average homeowner moves every 4 years.
Au contraire, not in Reston. I am told the current shortage of SL students is becuase old white crumujins are fixin to die in their houses.
Or perhaps this is not the cause of the shortage.
Au contraire, not in Reston. I am told the current shortage of SL students is becuase old white crumujins are fixin to die in their houses.
Or perhaps this is not the cause of the shortage.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:10PM
word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > But we already know that the average homeowner
> moves every 4 years.
>
> Au contraire, not in Reston.
I thought we were talking about McNair. Yes Reston is out of the norm on this issue. There's an outside demographers report on the School Board's web site bearing this out. A unusually large percentage of the households in Reston have folks in 45> age groups.
> Or perhaps this is not the cause of the shortage.
Like what?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:28PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > But we already know that the average homeowner
> moves every 4 years.
>
> Au contraire, not in Reston.
I thought we were talking about McNair. Yes Reston is out of the norm on this issue. There's an outside demographers report on the School Board's web site bearing this out. A unusually large percentage of the households in Reston have folks in 45> age groups.
> Or perhaps this is not the cause of the shortage.
Like what?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 11:28PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:40PM
Letsgoseahawks,
I hate to be so rude, but your grammar needs some work. Are you another victim of whole language? I thought IB taught students to write. If you are representative of a South Lakes education, I understand the trepidation of parents whose children might be forced to attend South Lakes.
At a minimum, plural words do not need an apostrophe. Parents means more than one parent and does not need an apostrophe. You might also want to read a bit on using commas and periods. It would make it much easier to read your posts.
I hate to be so rude, but your grammar needs some work. Are you another victim of whole language? I thought IB taught students to write. If you are representative of a South Lakes education, I understand the trepidation of parents whose children might be forced to attend South Lakes.
At a minimum, plural words do not need an apostrophe. Parents means more than one parent and does not need an apostrophe. You might also want to read a bit on using commas and periods. It would make it much easier to read your posts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:42PM
>>>Do you really want to discourage articulate students from posting here?<<<
Please see my previous post.
Please see my previous post.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:53PM
Thomas More,
I thought this was hilarious. Staff is saying these are reasons to upset everyone with a boundary change:
Larger schools Offer More In-House
Electives than Smaller Schools
• Jewelry – 3D studio art
• Guitar 1, 2, 3 and Guitar
Ensemble
• Piano
• Astronomy
• Animation
• Aerospace Science 1 and 2
• Peer Mediation
• Criminal Justice
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
We must endure redistricting so that South Lakes can offer Jewelry class and guitar lessons? Why can't South Lakes offer these classes anyway? I am quite sure that the parents who are about to be redistricted will agree to have more of their tax dollars going to South Lakes so the students there can have guitar lessons and cartoon classes. Heck, I bet Fox Mill PTA would be happy to pay for those lessons, if that meant their kids could stay at Oakton.
I thought this was hilarious. Staff is saying these are reasons to upset everyone with a boundary change:
Larger schools Offer More In-House
Electives than Smaller Schools
• Jewelry – 3D studio art
• Guitar 1, 2, 3 and Guitar
Ensemble
• Piano
• Astronomy
• Animation
• Aerospace Science 1 and 2
• Peer Mediation
• Criminal Justice
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
We must endure redistricting so that South Lakes can offer Jewelry class and guitar lessons? Why can't South Lakes offer these classes anyway? I am quite sure that the parents who are about to be redistricted will agree to have more of their tax dollars going to South Lakes so the students there can have guitar lessons and cartoon classes. Heck, I bet Fox Mill PTA would be happy to pay for those lessons, if that meant their kids could stay at Oakton.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 10, 2007 11:57PM
More from the FCPS handout:
>>>Smaller Schools Offer Fewer
Advanced Level Math Classes
• Generally, the following math classes are
not available at smaller schools:
– Discrete Math
– PreCalculus Honors
– Math Analysis
– Multivariable Calculus
– AP Statistics
– Matrix Algebra<<<
Guess what? Most schools, including Madison, don't have any of those classes, other than AP Statistics. Staff claims that Madison has Mulitvar, but it doesn't. Is staff claiming that South Lakes will have those classes if they get more students? Those classes aren't in IB.
>>>Smaller Schools Offer Fewer
Advanced Level Math Classes
• Generally, the following math classes are
not available at smaller schools:
– Discrete Math
– PreCalculus Honors
– Math Analysis
– Multivariable Calculus
– AP Statistics
– Matrix Algebra<<<
Guess what? Most schools, including Madison, don't have any of those classes, other than AP Statistics. Staff claims that Madison has Mulitvar, but it doesn't. Is staff claiming that South Lakes will have those classes if they get more students? Those classes aren't in IB.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
david
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:03AM
Cougar/sourpuss wrote: "David, get a grip on this subject ... 55+ and singles have no demand for services? Are they all in comas? ..."
Sourpuss: You're not quick, so I'll use small words and pictures. The pie chart here shows next year's budget for Fairfax County. Notice the big, pretty blue slice? That's not blueberry, its the school budget. That's all spending that singles, DINKs and seniors pay for, but don't use. Folks that can't be happy about underused school buildings or buses clogging their morning drive.
And one building full of those folks pay more taxes than a whole neighborhood of little cougar families.
Attachments:
Sourpuss: You're not quick, so I'll use small words and pictures. The pie chart here shows next year's budget for Fairfax County. Notice the big, pretty blue slice? That's not blueberry, its the school budget. That's all spending that singles, DINKs and seniors pay for, but don't use. Folks that can't be happy about underused school buildings or buses clogging their morning drive.
And one building full of those folks pay more taxes than a whole neighborhood of little cougar families.
Attachments:
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:06AM
Good work, David.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:07AM
More from the handout:
>>>Students at smaller schools are often
limited to upper level courses in Biology
and Chemistry; whereas, students at
larger schools may also choose:
AP Physics
AP environment<<<
Sure sounds like South Lakes is going to become an AP school. Madison has never had either of those AP classes.
Looking at their latest projections, no school is over enrolled in the out years, except Madison, by 100 students. So why are we doing this? Just to fill South Lakes? Have they now decided that they built Westfield too large? So moving students out will give them lots of empty space. Why not leave the empty space at South Lakes?
>>>Students at smaller schools are often
limited to upper level courses in Biology
and Chemistry; whereas, students at
larger schools may also choose:
AP Physics
AP environment<<<
Sure sounds like South Lakes is going to become an AP school. Madison has never had either of those AP classes.
Looking at their latest projections, no school is over enrolled in the out years, except Madison, by 100 students. So why are we doing this? Just to fill South Lakes? Have they now decided that they built Westfield too large? So moving students out will give them lots of empty space. Why not leave the empty space at South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:10AM
It seems no one ever leaves Vienna either. My street has 15 houses, only 4 have school aged children. Two have pre schoolers, and the rest are people over 50, with quite a few over 70, and two couples in their 80's.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:18AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Troll alert
You're going to post again. Thanks for the warning. I guess you didn't do so well in Spanish.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 12:25AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Troll alert
You're going to post again. Thanks for the warning. I guess you didn't do so well in Spanish.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 12:25AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:27AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems no one ever leaves Vienna either. My
> street has 15 houses, only 4 have school aged
> children. Two have pre schoolers, and the rest
> are people over 50, with quite a few over 70, and
> two couples in their 80's.
While you are sanctimoniously policing the grammar of others at least half your age (i.e., letsgoseahawks), try policing your own. Preschoolers is one word, not two. Are you a victim of whole language as well? Where did you get your fine edumacation?
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems no one ever leaves Vienna either. My
> street has 15 houses, only 4 have school aged
> children. Two have pre schoolers, and the rest
> are people over 50, with quite a few over 70, and
> two couples in their 80's.
While you are sanctimoniously policing the grammar of others at least half your age (i.e., letsgoseahawks), try policing your own. Preschoolers is one word, not two. Are you a victim of whole language as well? Where did you get your fine edumacation?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:29AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While you are sanctimoniously policing the grammar
> of others at least half your age (i.e.,
> letsgoseahawks), try policing your own.
> Preschoolers is one word, not two. Are you a
> victim of whole language as well? Where did you
> get your fine edumacation?
Not in FCPS and not at the Charlottesville day school either.
-------------------------------------------------------
> While you are sanctimoniously policing the grammar
> of others at least half your age (i.e.,
> letsgoseahawks), try policing your own.
> Preschoolers is one word, not two. Are you a
> victim of whole language as well? Where did you
> get your fine edumacation?
Not in FCPS and not at the Charlottesville day school either.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:41AM
Like I've said before, it will be Madison island, McNair, and Floris. The island kids won't go to South Lakes, and a fair number from Floris won't either, making the numbers perfect, between 700 and 800.
Removing those students from Westfield would also make Westfield their new perfect sized school, 2,100 to 2,200 students, so that everyone can play sports. Please ignore all that empty space at Westfield. They made a mistake, they made Westfield way too big. So they have to reduce it, to make it the right size. Please don't ask me what changed in the last 5 years that has made Westfield too large and so must be cut back to 2,100 students in a facility built for 3,100. What magic think has staff learned in these few years? Will they change their mind again within 5 years and decide that 2,100 is not the perfect number of students?
No students can leave Herndon high school since it is already projected to be 55 under enrolled by next year and 299 under enrolled 5 years out. Oakton will be perfect 5 years out, at 2,245. It will also be under enrolled, and VERY close to the perfect size, so there is no justification for moving any students out of Oakton. Chantilly will also be under enrolled at 2,603, although that is well over the 'perfect' student size. But in order to take students out of Chantilly, they would have to pass through Oakton district to get to South Lakes. Not a good idea. Nor is playing dominoes a good plan. So it comes back to reducing Westfield by over 700 to get it down to the 'perfect' size high school. Uuuummmmm...........and South Lakes needs EXACTLY that many students for it to reach the 'perfect' size! Voila! The solution is more than obvious! Between 700 and 800 students need to leave Westfield and go to South Lakes. It makes all the schools close to the 'perfect' size.
I'll remind you in February when the school board votes to send the island, Floris, and McNair to South Lakes.
Removing those students from Westfield would also make Westfield their new perfect sized school, 2,100 to 2,200 students, so that everyone can play sports. Please ignore all that empty space at Westfield. They made a mistake, they made Westfield way too big. So they have to reduce it, to make it the right size. Please don't ask me what changed in the last 5 years that has made Westfield too large and so must be cut back to 2,100 students in a facility built for 3,100. What magic think has staff learned in these few years? Will they change their mind again within 5 years and decide that 2,100 is not the perfect number of students?
No students can leave Herndon high school since it is already projected to be 55 under enrolled by next year and 299 under enrolled 5 years out. Oakton will be perfect 5 years out, at 2,245. It will also be under enrolled, and VERY close to the perfect size, so there is no justification for moving any students out of Oakton. Chantilly will also be under enrolled at 2,603, although that is well over the 'perfect' student size. But in order to take students out of Chantilly, they would have to pass through Oakton district to get to South Lakes. Not a good idea. Nor is playing dominoes a good plan. So it comes back to reducing Westfield by over 700 to get it down to the 'perfect' size high school. Uuuummmmm...........and South Lakes needs EXACTLY that many students for it to reach the 'perfect' size! Voila! The solution is more than obvious! Between 700 and 800 students need to leave Westfield and go to South Lakes. It makes all the schools close to the 'perfect' size.
I'll remind you in February when the school board votes to send the island, Floris, and McNair to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:43AM
Sorry, I never bragged about how great my school was. Our little Seahawk did.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:59AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Letsgoseahawks,
> I hate to be so rude, but your grammar needs some
> work. Are you another victim of whole language?
> I thought IB taught students to write. If you
> are representative of a South Lakes education, I
> understand the trepidation of parents whose
> children might be forced to attend South Lakes.
>
> At a minimum, plural words do not need an
> apostrophe. Parents means more than one parent
> and does not need an apostrophe. You might also
> want to read a bit on using commas and periods.
> It would make it much easier to read your posts.
In response to her own spelling mistake, Neen said, "Sorry, I never bragged about how great my school was. Our little Seahawk did."
So let me get this straight. You were browbeating a kid because he bragged about his alma mater? Not just to be a vindictive know-it-all taking out your redistricting frustrations on a kid who is proud of his school? You excuse your own spelling error by saying that you've never bragged about your school? Pot, meet kettle.
Didn't you say your community is not even affected by this boundary study? I would love for you to explain your enmity for all things Seahawk to this board.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Letsgoseahawks,
> I hate to be so rude, but your grammar needs some
> work. Are you another victim of whole language?
> I thought IB taught students to write. If you
> are representative of a South Lakes education, I
> understand the trepidation of parents whose
> children might be forced to attend South Lakes.
>
> At a minimum, plural words do not need an
> apostrophe. Parents means more than one parent
> and does not need an apostrophe. You might also
> want to read a bit on using commas and periods.
> It would make it much easier to read your posts.
In response to her own spelling mistake, Neen said, "Sorry, I never bragged about how great my school was. Our little Seahawk did."
So let me get this straight. You were browbeating a kid because he bragged about his alma mater? Not just to be a vindictive know-it-all taking out your redistricting frustrations on a kid who is proud of his school? You excuse your own spelling error by saying that you've never bragged about your school? Pot, meet kettle.
Didn't you say your community is not even affected by this boundary study? I would love for you to explain your enmity for all things Seahawk to this board.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 01:06AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a vindictive know-it-all
no need to be so harsh on yourself.
> Didn't you say your community is not even affected
> by this boundary study?
And didn't you say that your kids are out of SL, So what makes you think anyone wants to read anything you have to say,
-------------------------------------------------------
> a vindictive know-it-all
no need to be so harsh on yourself.
> Didn't you say your community is not even affected
> by this boundary study?
And didn't you say that your kids are out of SL, So what makes you think anyone wants to read anything you have to say,
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 01:21AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I've said before, it will be Madison island,
> McNair, and Floris. The island kids won't go to
> South Lakes, and a fair number from Floris won't
> either, making the numbers perfect, between 700
> and 800.
Stu isn't going to plan on 185 kids leaving FCPS. Is there any precedent for that many leaving after a boundary realignment?
> Removing those students from Westfield would also
> make Westfield their new perfect sized school,
> 2,100 to 2,200 students, so that everyone can play
> sports. Please ignore all that empty space at
> Westfield. They made a mistake, they made
> Westfield way too big. So they have to reduce it,
> to make it the right size.
Westfield was authorized by a prior Board (an appointed Board?) that didn't want to spend the money to buy two high school sites.
> No students can leave Herndon high school since it
> is already projected to be 55 under enrolled by
> next year and 299 under enrolled 5 years out.
Thus making room for a reduced McNair south of the toll road or a new Coppermine ES.
> Nor is playing dominoes a good plan.
Because why?
More Later
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I've said before, it will be Madison island,
> McNair, and Floris. The island kids won't go to
> South Lakes, and a fair number from Floris won't
> either, making the numbers perfect, between 700
> and 800.
Stu isn't going to plan on 185 kids leaving FCPS. Is there any precedent for that many leaving after a boundary realignment?
> Removing those students from Westfield would also
> make Westfield their new perfect sized school,
> 2,100 to 2,200 students, so that everyone can play
> sports. Please ignore all that empty space at
> Westfield. They made a mistake, they made
> Westfield way too big. So they have to reduce it,
> to make it the right size.
Westfield was authorized by a prior Board (an appointed Board?) that didn't want to spend the money to buy two high school sites.
> No students can leave Herndon high school since it
> is already projected to be 55 under enrolled by
> next year and 299 under enrolled 5 years out.
Thus making room for a reduced McNair south of the toll road or a new Coppermine ES.
> Nor is playing dominoes a good plan.
Because why?
More Later
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:04AM
McNair can't be sent to Herndon because of the demographics. If any students go to Herndon, it will have to be students from Langley, in some other boundary change.
People in community meetings won't agree to the domino thing when they can band together to send Floris and McNair. But you are right, all of Floris can't be sent to South Lakes, only the part closest to South Lakes and McNair. Floris will have to be like Navy and feed to different high schools. Since it's rather large, that shouldn't be a problem.
Another poster said: Westfield is too large and SL is too
> small. A better balance occurs when numbers are
> more like Oakton's.<<<
That's exactly the conclusion that the groups will reach, and the easiest way to do that is take students out of Westfield and move them to South Lakes.
Do you have another guess?
Westfield was built before 1995? That's the only way that it was authorized by someone other than Stu and Janie. If it was built after 1995, then this board had to approve it. This board could undue any plan by the boards prior to 1995.
People in community meetings won't agree to the domino thing when they can band together to send Floris and McNair. But you are right, all of Floris can't be sent to South Lakes, only the part closest to South Lakes and McNair. Floris will have to be like Navy and feed to different high schools. Since it's rather large, that shouldn't be a problem.
Another poster said: Westfield is too large and SL is too
> small. A better balance occurs when numbers are
> more like Oakton's.<<<
That's exactly the conclusion that the groups will reach, and the easiest way to do that is take students out of Westfield and move them to South Lakes.
Do you have another guess?
Westfield was built before 1995? That's the only way that it was authorized by someone other than Stu and Janie. If it was built after 1995, then this board had to approve it. This board could undue any plan by the boards prior to 1995.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:06AM
Which existing schools will send students to Coppermine? Are they coming out of Floris?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:09AM
Just found this article:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=80209&paper=66&cat=104
Looks like just the area that will be sent to South Lakes. No split feeder.
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=80209&paper=66&cat=104
Looks like just the area that will be sent to South Lakes. No split feeder.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:14AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair can't be sent to Herndon because of the
> demographics.
It looks like the demographics of McNair south of the Toll Road are pretty good, close to the County average on FRL. Waiting to get a breakdown on ESOL for that part of McNair. Herndon is actually below County average on FRL, so it could take some more on that metric. ESOL is another story. Sending all of McNair to HHS also eliminates another split feeder.
> But you are right, all of
> Floris can't be sent to South Lakes,
Even a blind pig finds the occassional truffle.
> Floris will
> have to be like Navy and feed to different high
> schools. Since it's rather large, that shouldn't
> be a problem.
Send all of Navy to Oakton,(end that split feeder), and more of Poplar tree (already a split feeder) to Westfield, then Floris can fit at Chantilly with no need to split it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 02:19AM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair can't be sent to Herndon because of the
> demographics.
It looks like the demographics of McNair south of the Toll Road are pretty good, close to the County average on FRL. Waiting to get a breakdown on ESOL for that part of McNair. Herndon is actually below County average on FRL, so it could take some more on that metric. ESOL is another story. Sending all of McNair to HHS also eliminates another split feeder.
> But you are right, all of
> Floris can't be sent to South Lakes,
Even a blind pig finds the occassional truffle.
> Floris will
> have to be like Navy and feed to different high
> schools. Since it's rather large, that shouldn't
> be a problem.
Send all of Navy to Oakton,(end that split feeder), and more of Poplar tree (already a split feeder) to Westfield, then Floris can fit at Chantilly with no need to split it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 02:19AM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:17AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just found this article:
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> chive=true&article=80209&paper=66&cat=104
>
> Looks like just the area that will be sent to
> South Lakes. No split feeder.
Coopermine is on the far side of Centreville Road from SL. That would create an island out of McNair south of the Toll Road. You're slipping.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just found this article:
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> chive=true&article=80209&paper=66&cat=104
>
> Looks like just the area that will be sent to
> South Lakes. No split feeder.
Coopermine is on the far side of Centreville Road from SL. That would create an island out of McNair south of the Toll Road. You're slipping.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:21AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which existing schools will send students to
> Coppermine? Are they coming out of Floris?
Maybe some but mostly from McNair, especaily west of Centreville Road
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which existing schools will send students to
> Coppermine? Are they coming out of Floris?
Maybe some but mostly from McNair, especaily west of Centreville Road
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:53AM
Wow, I just found evidence that it is NOT true that people stay in Reston longer than in the areas around them. Fewer than half of the people in Reston have been there for 5 years or more, 48%. In the Lake Anne part of Reston only 33% of the people have been there for 5 years! While Oakton and Vienna have 52% to 56% of people who have been in the same place for over 5 years. In McLean it's 57.9% who have lived in the same home for 5 years or more. Reston has more turnover than the surrounding areas! So why aren't families moving there as they are in McLean, Vienna, and Oakton? Or why aren't the families in Reston sending their children to South Lakes?
http://zipskinny.com/index.php?zip=20190&x=41&y=14
http://zipskinny.com/index.php?zip=20191&x=36&y=17
We can now dispense with the argument that South Lakes is under enrolled because people age in place in Reston, but not in Vienna or Oakton or McLean.
If people who live in Reston aren't sending their kids to South Lakes, why would you think parents from other schools will?
http://zipskinny.com/index.php?zip=20190&x=41&y=14
http://zipskinny.com/index.php?zip=20191&x=36&y=17
We can now dispense with the argument that South Lakes is under enrolled because people age in place in Reston, but not in Vienna or Oakton or McLean.
If people who live in Reston aren't sending their kids to South Lakes, why would you think parents from other schools will?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:54AM
How am I making McNair an island when I've said that McNair will go to South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:59AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How am I making McNair an island when I've said
> that McNair will go to South Lakes?
OK maybe I misunderstood. Where does Coppermine go?
-------------------------------------------------------
> How am I making McNair an island when I've said
> that McNair will go to South Lakes?
OK maybe I misunderstood. Where does Coppermine go?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:04AM
The article says Coppermine will draw from McNair and Floris. It's the area that I said will go to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:39AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The article says Coppermine will draw from McNair
> and Floris. It's the area that I said will go to
> South Lakes.
Which will go where? Do you see Coopermine and McNair both going to SL?
-------------------------------------------------------
> The article says Coppermine will draw from McNair
> and Floris. It's the area that I said will go to
> South Lakes.
Which will go where? Do you see Coopermine and McNair both going to SL?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
duh
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:07AM
When do you people sleep?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:37AM
deleted at posters request
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 10:21PM by Thomas More.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 10:21PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
resource allocation
()
Date: November 11, 2007 05:29AM
This post accurately reflects my position on facilities utilization and any use of tax dollars for construction. Another clog is student drivers that could have less distance or road time if FCPS changed their attendance area. Add to that the modular buildings and trailer costs out of the operating budget. Where is my money going? The interest on the bonds is separate from the operating budget transfer. Does that push the schools to more than 52%?
david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...that can't be happy about underused school
> buildings or buses clogging their morning drive.
>
> And one building full of those folks pay more
> taxes than a whole neighborhood of little cougar
> families.
david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...that can't be happy about underused school
> buildings or buses clogging their morning drive.
>
> And one building full of those folks pay more
> taxes than a whole neighborhood of little cougar
> families.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
resource allocation
()
Date: November 11, 2007 05:57AM
fcps has good maps with student counts on it's website towards the end of the pdf doc:
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
The maps also show the peculiar boundaries for some elementary schools. There are some schools not included in this study which are glaring and named on the map [ie Forestville] and unmentionned Colvin Run that need yellow dots on the map. [I looked at other school maps to see what was in the unspecified areas -Fairfax City has a whole other school board ].
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
The maps also show the peculiar boundaries for some elementary schools. There are some schools not included in this study which are glaring and named on the map [ie Forestville] and unmentionned Colvin Run that need yellow dots on the map. [I looked at other school maps to see what was in the unspecified areas -Fairfax City has a whole other school board ].
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 11, 2007 08:10AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More from the FCPS handout:
>
> >>>Smaller Schools Offer Fewer
> Advanced Level Math Classes
> • Generally, the following math classes are
> not available at smaller schools:
> – Discrete Math
> – PreCalculus Honors
> – Math Analysis
> – Multivariable Calculus
> – AP Statistics
> – Matrix Algebra<<<
>
> Guess what? Most schools, including Madison,
> don't have any of those classes, other than AP
> Statistics. Staff claims that Madison has
> Mulitvar, but it doesn't. Is staff claiming that
> South Lakes will have those classes if they get
> more students? Those classes aren't in IB.
Great point. I'm pretty sure the kids at Oakton in Multivar and/or Matrix drive themselves to Woodson to get those classes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> More from the FCPS handout:
>
> >>>Smaller Schools Offer Fewer
> Advanced Level Math Classes
> • Generally, the following math classes are
> not available at smaller schools:
> – Discrete Math
> – PreCalculus Honors
> – Math Analysis
> – Multivariable Calculus
> – AP Statistics
> – Matrix Algebra<<<
>
> Guess what? Most schools, including Madison,
> don't have any of those classes, other than AP
> Statistics. Staff claims that Madison has
> Mulitvar, but it doesn't. Is staff claiming that
> South Lakes will have those classes if they get
> more students? Those classes aren't in IB.
Great point. I'm pretty sure the kids at Oakton in Multivar and/or Matrix drive themselves to Woodson to get those classes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 08:58AM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Send all of Navy to Oakton,(end that split
> feeder), and more of Poplar tree (already a split
> feeder) to Westfield, then Floris can fit at
> Chantilly with no need to split it.
And how does any of this solve the underenrollment at South Lakes?
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Send all of Navy to Oakton,(end that split
> feeder), and more of Poplar tree (already a split
> feeder) to Westfield, then Floris can fit at
> Chantilly with no need to split it.
And how does any of this solve the underenrollment at South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 11, 2007 09:20AM
parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Send all of Navy to Oakton,(end that split
> > feeder), and more of Poplar tree (already a
> split
> > feeder) to Westfield, then Floris can fit at
> > Chantilly with no need to split it.
>
>
> And how does any of this solve the underenrollment
> at South Lakes?
Because then they would take Fox Mill and/or Crossfield out of Oakton and move them to SL. But taking Navy from Chantilly only moves about 270 kids, so all of either one of Fox Mill or Crossfield would be too many. Again, just leave Oakton out of this. I really like the argument someone was making a little earlier that by effectively underenrolling Westfields to meet the random new capacity criteria, you are creating 300-400 empty seats there. Why is that any different than the 300-400 empty seats at South Lakes (assuming you do get some new students from somewhere to account for the other 300.) I've been saying all along that any redistricting now, in light of future demographics and enrollment figures, is only going to shift this problem to another school. Didn't they refuse to listen to the parents at South County, move 600 from Hayfield and have to turn around the next year, have an emergency boundary adjustment and fix it? They *need to look at the demographics and they *need to listen to all those well educated parents this time around. And if they are so hell bent on *fixing a problem that may or may not really exist, then they need to do it with as little disruption as possible. In other words, forget all this silly domino stuff and just make as few moves as they can to fix whatever the problem of the day is.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Send all of Navy to Oakton,(end that split
> > feeder), and more of Poplar tree (already a
> split
> > feeder) to Westfield, then Floris can fit at
> > Chantilly with no need to split it.
>
>
> And how does any of this solve the underenrollment
> at South Lakes?
Because then they would take Fox Mill and/or Crossfield out of Oakton and move them to SL. But taking Navy from Chantilly only moves about 270 kids, so all of either one of Fox Mill or Crossfield would be too many. Again, just leave Oakton out of this. I really like the argument someone was making a little earlier that by effectively underenrolling Westfields to meet the random new capacity criteria, you are creating 300-400 empty seats there. Why is that any different than the 300-400 empty seats at South Lakes (assuming you do get some new students from somewhere to account for the other 300.) I've been saying all along that any redistricting now, in light of future demographics and enrollment figures, is only going to shift this problem to another school. Didn't they refuse to listen to the parents at South County, move 600 from Hayfield and have to turn around the next year, have an emergency boundary adjustment and fix it? They *need to look at the demographics and they *need to listen to all those well educated parents this time around. And if they are so hell bent on *fixing a problem that may or may not really exist, then they need to do it with as little disruption as possible. In other words, forget all this silly domino stuff and just make as few moves as they can to fix whatever the problem of the day is.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Madison
()
Date: November 11, 2007 09:35AM
Sorry if I don’t understand, but why do you keep bringing up Ms. Jones and Ms. Trout’s sexual orientation? Are you saying that they should not have gotten the jobs they received because of their sexual orientations? I’m almost certain that is illegal and discrimination…
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
OAkton Parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 10:31AM
Question for South Lakes parents...
the South Lakes web site course catalog lists many courses taught at South LAkes (i.e. not at some other school), including the following that don't seem like things you would see at a school suffering from critical underenrollment,and in fact look like college level classes in many cases:
- advanced accounting
- business law / business management
- various Information Technology classes (web design, networking, programming)
- journalism 4 / photojournalism 3
- gourmet foods
- dance 3
- advanced mixed chorus
- theater arts 4 / technical theater 2
- sculpture 1 / ceramics 2
- chinese 4 / korean 4 / latin 4
- advanced sports and entertainment marketing (huh?)
- fashion marketing 2
- discrete mathematics
- architectural drawing
- engineering physics II
Are these really offered, or is the course catalog a fiction?
Including the academy and IB classes that are not listed above, there must be hundreds of courses, with any one student able to take about thirty maximum...?
I'm not getting what the problem is here...I see no shortage of course availability. Are we talking about American Sign Language and Economics as the classes that are not available? If so, they hardlty seem missed given the above...
the South Lakes web site course catalog lists many courses taught at South LAkes (i.e. not at some other school), including the following that don't seem like things you would see at a school suffering from critical underenrollment,and in fact look like college level classes in many cases:
- advanced accounting
- business law / business management
- various Information Technology classes (web design, networking, programming)
- journalism 4 / photojournalism 3
- gourmet foods
- dance 3
- advanced mixed chorus
- theater arts 4 / technical theater 2
- sculpture 1 / ceramics 2
- chinese 4 / korean 4 / latin 4
- advanced sports and entertainment marketing (huh?)
- fashion marketing 2
- discrete mathematics
- architectural drawing
- engineering physics II
Are these really offered, or is the course catalog a fiction?
Including the academy and IB classes that are not listed above, there must be hundreds of courses, with any one student able to take about thirty maximum...?
I'm not getting what the problem is here...I see no shortage of course availability. Are we talking about American Sign Language and Economics as the classes that are not available? If so, they hardlty seem missed given the above...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 11, 2007 11:08AM
Not to condone your diatribe/vendetta toward Ms. Jones and Ms. Trout, but you should be very careful about suggesting (what your kids told you) about the "new field hockey coach's sexual orientation", not the least of reasons being that she has a junior at Langley who excels in the sport and, I believe, she has other young kids too......I would suppose you don't wish to publish a false statement that may harm her reputation.
BTW: Did your kids mention that the SLHS girls had a great experience on the field as a team? Does that matter to you?
BTW: Did your kids mention that the SLHS girls had a great experience on the field as a team? Does that matter to you?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 11, 2007 11:23AM
I am all for keeping the impact as small as possible, keeping feeder schools intact, except for the high growth wild card McNair. I agree that all of Navy to Oakton is an even swap (close enough) for Fox Mill to SLHS. Crossfield to SLHS does not make sense as you would have to replace them with kids sent to Oakton that would have a much further drive etc. We have to keep a reasonable balance of socioeconomic mix sent to Oakton but not get carried away elsewhere with this thought. Physical location of high schools and students tie our hands to a large degree. We can't turn this into a social experiement. Keep the impact small and don't break up "communities".
I assume that Westfield needs to move out approx. 400 kids, Chantilly needs to move out approx. 300 kids. SLHS needs up to 800 kids. We can argue about sending the "other" schools but we have to make sense of it. I have trouble with my scenarios because of the McNair factor and the "island" factor
...these things shouldn't prevent us from making sensible moves.
Is McNair east of Centerville socioeconomically via to be sent to SLHS? If so then perhaps both Floris and McNair west of Centerville Rd remain at Westfield and Floris/McNair east of Centerville Rd to SLHS.
Or minimize further Floris to SLHS by kicking Aldrin over (5 minutes to SLHS) and replacing with Coppermine at Herndon High.
With the location of Floris, need to reduce WF and lack of others reasonable options..they are going to contribute heavily.
Not knowing about Aldrin and too lazy to look it up,are they well performing students?
I assume that Westfield needs to move out approx. 400 kids, Chantilly needs to move out approx. 300 kids. SLHS needs up to 800 kids. We can argue about sending the "other" schools but we have to make sense of it. I have trouble with my scenarios because of the McNair factor and the "island" factor
...these things shouldn't prevent us from making sensible moves.
Is McNair east of Centerville socioeconomically via to be sent to SLHS? If so then perhaps both Floris and McNair west of Centerville Rd remain at Westfield and Floris/McNair east of Centerville Rd to SLHS.
Or minimize further Floris to SLHS by kicking Aldrin over (5 minutes to SLHS) and replacing with Coppermine at Herndon High.
With the location of Floris, need to reduce WF and lack of others reasonable options..they are going to contribute heavily.
Not knowing about Aldrin and too lazy to look it up,are they well performing students?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CHS Parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 11:32AM
There many split-feeder elementary schools in Fairfax County. Why are you so certain that Navy needs to feed solely to Oakton? If you fix one....then fix them all.
That's one of the reasons this boundary study is a mess. Why haven't they included Centreville, Fairfax and Woodson? Where is Langley and Madison?
Stop trying to throw Navy under the bus.
That's one of the reasons this boundary study is a mess. Why haven't they included Centreville, Fairfax and Woodson? Where is Langley and Madison?
Stop trying to throw Navy under the bus.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:02PM
CHS Parent
I don't disagree with you at all. I also am not trying to throw Navy under the bus, trust me. With Navy going to Oakton it dominoes me to be more at risk to go to SLHS. I would love for non movement to Oakton and keep my kids out of this.
The fact is something is going to happen and Navy to Oakton is a sensible option. The reason we are here are to question things, share thoughts and hopefully particpate in this process tomorrow.The school board has layed out the objectives and they aren't going to change.
Who should show up? The me that has will not support any change or the me that tries to add rational input that is also to the best of my interest? I just hope the decisions have not been made at this point. I will be pissed if a rampant rumor that existed a year ago comes to fruition as it will convince me that railroading has occurred,
Again, I would love for Navy to stay as is.
I don't disagree with you at all. I also am not trying to throw Navy under the bus, trust me. With Navy going to Oakton it dominoes me to be more at risk to go to SLHS. I would love for non movement to Oakton and keep my kids out of this.
The fact is something is going to happen and Navy to Oakton is a sensible option. The reason we are here are to question things, share thoughts and hopefully particpate in this process tomorrow.The school board has layed out the objectives and they aren't going to change.
Who should show up? The me that has will not support any change or the me that tries to add rational input that is also to the best of my interest? I just hope the decisions have not been made at this point. I will be pissed if a rampant rumor that existed a year ago comes to fruition as it will convince me that railroading has occurred,
Again, I would love for Navy to stay as is.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:03PM
CHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There many split-feeder elementary schools in
> Fairfax County. Why are you so certain that Navy
> needs to feed solely to Oakton? If you fix
> one....then fix them all.
>
> That's one of the reasons this boundary study is a
> mess. Why haven't they included Centreville,
> Fairfax and Woodson? Where is Langley and
> Madison?
>
> Stop trying to throw Navy under the bus.
Hey, I would love to keep Navy at Chantilly...that way there is less liklihood that Crossfield and/or Fox Mill get moved out of Oakton. I think lots of people are incorrectly assuming that Navy would be happy to move to Oakton because it isn't South Lakes when the fact is that most Navy people want to stay at Chantilly. StopRD.org has such a great stance when it says stop ALL redistricting just so people won't start with the whole "take them, not me" stuff.
As for feeder schools, wouldn't it be more important to keep middle schools together rather than elementary schools? Looking at many of these scenarios, Carson is going to end up sending kids to Oakton, Westfield, South Lakes, Herndon (if Coppermine goes there) and Chantilly (GT kids). That doesn't exactly do much for a cohesive spirit in middle school or early high school, does it?
-------------------------------------------------------
> There many split-feeder elementary schools in
> Fairfax County. Why are you so certain that Navy
> needs to feed solely to Oakton? If you fix
> one....then fix them all.
>
> That's one of the reasons this boundary study is a
> mess. Why haven't they included Centreville,
> Fairfax and Woodson? Where is Langley and
> Madison?
>
> Stop trying to throw Navy under the bus.
Hey, I would love to keep Navy at Chantilly...that way there is less liklihood that Crossfield and/or Fox Mill get moved out of Oakton. I think lots of people are incorrectly assuming that Navy would be happy to move to Oakton because it isn't South Lakes when the fact is that most Navy people want to stay at Chantilly. StopRD.org has such a great stance when it says stop ALL redistricting just so people won't start with the whole "take them, not me" stuff.
As for feeder schools, wouldn't it be more important to keep middle schools together rather than elementary schools? Looking at many of these scenarios, Carson is going to end up sending kids to Oakton, Westfield, South Lakes, Herndon (if Coppermine goes there) and Chantilly (GT kids). That doesn't exactly do much for a cohesive spirit in middle school or early high school, does it?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:35PM
PAL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CHS Parent
>
> I don't disagree with you at all. I also am not
> trying to throw Navy under the bus, trust me. With
> Navy going to Oakton it dominoes me to be more at
> risk to go to SLHS. I would love for non movement
> to Oakton and keep my kids out of this.
>
> The fact is something is going to happen and Navy
> to Oakton is a sensible option. The reason we are
> here are to question things, share thoughts and
> hopefully particpate in this process tomorrow.The
> school board has layed out the objectives and they
> aren't going to change.
>
> Who should show up? The me that has will not
> support any change or the me that tries to add
> rational input that is also to the best of my
> interest? I just hope the decisions have not been
> made at this point. I will be pissed if a rampant
> rumor that existed a year ago comes to fruition as
> it will convince me that railroading has
> occurred,
>
> Again, I would love for Navy to stay as is.
Thank you PAL for your very measured and reasonable assessment of the process. I hope that a majority of the parents who show up will approach the meeting with the same temperament. We will all be more productive that way and will have a chance to put some pretty good minds together to help assist the County with the process.
-------------------------------------------------------
> CHS Parent
>
> I don't disagree with you at all. I also am not
> trying to throw Navy under the bus, trust me. With
> Navy going to Oakton it dominoes me to be more at
> risk to go to SLHS. I would love for non movement
> to Oakton and keep my kids out of this.
>
> The fact is something is going to happen and Navy
> to Oakton is a sensible option. The reason we are
> here are to question things, share thoughts and
> hopefully particpate in this process tomorrow.The
> school board has layed out the objectives and they
> aren't going to change.
>
> Who should show up? The me that has will not
> support any change or the me that tries to add
> rational input that is also to the best of my
> interest? I just hope the decisions have not been
> made at this point. I will be pissed if a rampant
> rumor that existed a year ago comes to fruition as
> it will convince me that railroading has
> occurred,
>
> Again, I would love for Navy to stay as is.
Thank you PAL for your very measured and reasonable assessment of the process. I hope that a majority of the parents who show up will approach the meeting with the same temperament. We will all be more productive that way and will have a chance to put some pretty good minds together to help assist the County with the process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 11, 2007 12:54PM
PAL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Not knowing about Aldrin and too lazy to look it
> up,are they well performing students?
Yes - or rather they are the "right" demographics - 10% free and reduced lunch. There are only about 500 students there.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Not knowing about Aldrin and too lazy to look it
> up,are they well performing students?
Yes - or rather they are the "right" demographics - 10% free and reduced lunch. There are only about 500 students there.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 11, 2007 01:14PM
Below is a letter from this week's Reston Connection from a citizen without children in FFX county schools. It is valuable from a disinterested (we can only assume) party. Of course it's easy to tell someone to be rational when their family is not being affected; but let's hope that we can all attend the meetings in a rational analytical approach.
We should also continue to push the board on the following regardless of our views of the specifics of the boundary changes:
AP - introduction of AP classes into SLHS
grandfathering - allow current high schoolers to remain in their schools
Langley - The Reston/Herndon folks in this pyramid know they are hanging on by a thread similar to Madison Island. The school board especially Janie Strauss and Stu Gibson need to hear that we realize they were purposefully left out of the study. With transportation costs what they are, and with the increased attention on decreased sleep for adolescents, they county SHOULD/HAS to address busing kids 45 minutes to McLean. Forget the bs in the FAQs on the boundary study website about creating a split feeder - what we've learned from this board is that at least two schools in this study area are already split feeders - McNair and Navy.
Redistrict for Right Reasons
To the Editor:
Most of us taxpayers in Fairfax County don’t have children in the county’s schools. What should we think about redrawing attendance area boundaries?
Redistricting offers an opportunity to make the most of our tax dollars. Empty seats in classrooms mean wasted tax dollars. Overcrowded schools also represent unnecessary expenditures and, equally important, detract from the quality of education provided to tomorrow’s citizens. Spending tax dollars so one high school can have an award-winning band or so that another can have a winning football team or, even, so that house prices in one or another area can remain higher than in neighboring areas is wasteful and irresponsible.
Redistricting offers an opportunity to provide all Fairfax County students with educations that will prepare them for productive futures. Research studies strongly suggest that all students learn best in diverse classrooms — diverse in terms of ability, learning styles, socio-economic backgrounds, and the like. Moreover, diverse schools prepare children for the diverse world in which they will live. Redrawing school boundaries to lessen socio-economic segregation is in everyone’s best interest.
Redistricting offers an opportunity to make a public policy decision based on facts and sound research, rather than on fears, misinformation, and prejudices. Change is difficult, but change we must. Fairfax County’s population has changed dramatically since the last redistricting and it will continue to change. School boundaries need to be redrawn to reflect the population changes and will need to be redrawn again in the future.
In our society, changes involving children often prompt parents to voice their ugliest and most irrational fears. While the rest of us can respect parents’ concern for their children, pandering to fear is no way to determine public policy. The simple fact is that all Fairfax County schools offer essentially the same educational opportunities. District lines need to be drawn with that in mind.
Several writers have argued that the quality of a school’s band or its football team depends most on the students that enroll at the school, and not, presumably, on the quality of the school’s music instruction or football coaching. They want their schools to continue to enroll the students most likely to play in the band or on the football team. It is interesting, therefore, that the same writers don’t grasp that the same is true of academic performance. The differences in SAT or SOL scores that many see as proving one Fairfax County high school is better than another are more the product of the students enrolled than of the instruction provided. The educational program, again, is essentially the same across all Fairfax County schools. Enrolling your child in a school with higher SAT or SOL scores is not likely to improve his or her SAT or SOL scores. In fact, enrolling him or her in a narrowly homogenous school may detract from the educational experience.
The School Board, for reasons best known to itself, has raised the issue of redistricting without producing a thoughtful, comprehensive proposal. We now face the prospect of at least three public meetings at which parents will vent their worst fears and prejudices. If, at the end of the process, we are to have district boundaries that make good use of our tax dollars and provide good educations to all students, the rest of us need to communicate to the School Board that, for once, it needs to demonstrate some courage and commitment to sound educational policy.
James P. Hubbard
Reston
We should also continue to push the board on the following regardless of our views of the specifics of the boundary changes:
AP - introduction of AP classes into SLHS
grandfathering - allow current high schoolers to remain in their schools
Langley - The Reston/Herndon folks in this pyramid know they are hanging on by a thread similar to Madison Island. The school board especially Janie Strauss and Stu Gibson need to hear that we realize they were purposefully left out of the study. With transportation costs what they are, and with the increased attention on decreased sleep for adolescents, they county SHOULD/HAS to address busing kids 45 minutes to McLean. Forget the bs in the FAQs on the boundary study website about creating a split feeder - what we've learned from this board is that at least two schools in this study area are already split feeders - McNair and Navy.
Redistrict for Right Reasons
To the Editor:
Most of us taxpayers in Fairfax County don’t have children in the county’s schools. What should we think about redrawing attendance area boundaries?
Redistricting offers an opportunity to make the most of our tax dollars. Empty seats in classrooms mean wasted tax dollars. Overcrowded schools also represent unnecessary expenditures and, equally important, detract from the quality of education provided to tomorrow’s citizens. Spending tax dollars so one high school can have an award-winning band or so that another can have a winning football team or, even, so that house prices in one or another area can remain higher than in neighboring areas is wasteful and irresponsible.
Redistricting offers an opportunity to provide all Fairfax County students with educations that will prepare them for productive futures. Research studies strongly suggest that all students learn best in diverse classrooms — diverse in terms of ability, learning styles, socio-economic backgrounds, and the like. Moreover, diverse schools prepare children for the diverse world in which they will live. Redrawing school boundaries to lessen socio-economic segregation is in everyone’s best interest.
Redistricting offers an opportunity to make a public policy decision based on facts and sound research, rather than on fears, misinformation, and prejudices. Change is difficult, but change we must. Fairfax County’s population has changed dramatically since the last redistricting and it will continue to change. School boundaries need to be redrawn to reflect the population changes and will need to be redrawn again in the future.
In our society, changes involving children often prompt parents to voice their ugliest and most irrational fears. While the rest of us can respect parents’ concern for their children, pandering to fear is no way to determine public policy. The simple fact is that all Fairfax County schools offer essentially the same educational opportunities. District lines need to be drawn with that in mind.
Several writers have argued that the quality of a school’s band or its football team depends most on the students that enroll at the school, and not, presumably, on the quality of the school’s music instruction or football coaching. They want their schools to continue to enroll the students most likely to play in the band or on the football team. It is interesting, therefore, that the same writers don’t grasp that the same is true of academic performance. The differences in SAT or SOL scores that many see as proving one Fairfax County high school is better than another are more the product of the students enrolled than of the instruction provided. The educational program, again, is essentially the same across all Fairfax County schools. Enrolling your child in a school with higher SAT or SOL scores is not likely to improve his or her SAT or SOL scores. In fact, enrolling him or her in a narrowly homogenous school may detract from the educational experience.
The School Board, for reasons best known to itself, has raised the issue of redistricting without producing a thoughtful, comprehensive proposal. We now face the prospect of at least three public meetings at which parents will vent their worst fears and prejudices. If, at the end of the process, we are to have district boundaries that make good use of our tax dollars and provide good educations to all students, the rest of us need to communicate to the School Board that, for once, it needs to demonstrate some courage and commitment to sound educational policy.
James P. Hubbard
Reston
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
annoyed
()
Date: November 11, 2007 01:42PM
Thomas More, aka John W. Farrell, attorney for McCandlish & Lillard, P.C., your practice must be languishing with all of the time you spend posting garbage to this site. Maybe some readers will find some trash to post about you. I'll remove this post when you remove yours.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: November 11, 2007 01:48PM
annoyed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More, aka John W. Farrell, attorney for
> McCandlish & Lillard, P.C., your practice must be
> languishing with all of the time you spend posting
> garbage to this site. Maybe some readers will
> find some trash to post about you. I'll remove
> this post when you remove yours.
OOOh, good dirt. Tell me who Neen is and I'll send you flowers!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More, aka John W. Farrell, attorney for
> McCandlish & Lillard, P.C., your practice must be
> languishing with all of the time you spend posting
> garbage to this site. Maybe some readers will
> find some trash to post about you. I'll remove
> this post when you remove yours.
OOOh, good dirt. Tell me who Neen is and I'll send you flowers!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 11, 2007 01:50PM
Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> annoyed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More, aka John W. Farrell, attorney for
> > McCandlish & Lillard, P.C., your practice must
> be
> > languishing with all of the time you spend
> posting
> > garbage to this site. Maybe some readers will
> > find some trash to post about you. I'll remove
> > this post when you remove yours.
>
>
> OOOh, good dirt. Tell me who Neen is and I'll
> send you flowers!
I thought Thomas More said his initials were K.O. (that's going waaaaay back - to maybe page 21 or so...)
-------------------------------------------------------
> annoyed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More, aka John W. Farrell, attorney for
> > McCandlish & Lillard, P.C., your practice must
> be
> > languishing with all of the time you spend
> posting
> > garbage to this site. Maybe some readers will
> > find some trash to post about you. I'll remove
> > this post when you remove yours.
>
>
> OOOh, good dirt. Tell me who Neen is and I'll
> send you flowers!
I thought Thomas More said his initials were K.O. (that's going waaaaay back - to maybe page 21 or so...)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
annoyed
()
Date: November 11, 2007 01:57PM
Neen's initials are JM. When she crosses the line from revolting to defamatory, she too will be revealed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Thomas More
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:17PM
SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I would suppose you don't wish to publish
> a false statement that may harm her reputation.
First let me say that forums such as these are hard to carry such
important discussions. Inflections and tone can be lost and misread
and I fear that has happened here. I have no problem with anyone's
sexual orientation, the point of the argument was to bring up concerns
parents might have about bringing their children to SL. If you've read my
past posts you'll know how highly I think of the SL student body and
how I think they are SL best attribute. However, if we proceed
without acknowledging some of SL's faults, we do the school and future
student body a disservice. For if we do not ask the question, "Why
can't it be better?" then who will?
My sincerest apologies to those who I might have offended in my last
post that was not my intention. The specific reference has been edited out.
Mr Farrell is not the author of these posts as I have already stated before.
good night and good luck
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 02:19PM by Thomas More.
-------------------------------------------------------
I would suppose you don't wish to publish
> a false statement that may harm her reputation.
First let me say that forums such as these are hard to carry such
important discussions. Inflections and tone can be lost and misread
and I fear that has happened here. I have no problem with anyone's
sexual orientation, the point of the argument was to bring up concerns
parents might have about bringing their children to SL. If you've read my
past posts you'll know how highly I think of the SL student body and
how I think they are SL best attribute. However, if we proceed
without acknowledging some of SL's faults, we do the school and future
student body a disservice. For if we do not ask the question, "Why
can't it be better?" then who will?
My sincerest apologies to those who I might have offended in my last
post that was not my intention. The specific reference has been edited out.
Mr Farrell is not the author of these posts as I have already stated before.
good night and good luck
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 02:19PM by Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Hollywood
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:18PM
So then Annoyed your purpose here is to play Clue on the message bored and try and out people? It is anonymous for a reason, to allow people to post their opinions freely, even if we disagree with them. If you feel someone is lacking in class you do not stoop to their level by pulling stunts like this.
Besides Old Timer is right, Thomas said his initials were K.O
Besides Old Timer is right, Thomas said his initials were K.O
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Muse
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:05PM
Thomas More is most definitely Tom Farrell. There is no one else is the SL Seahawk community with his views, animus, particular gripes with staff, and delusions of grandeur. I think the initials K.O. probably stood for 'kiss off.'
I also copied his slanderous post regarding a staff person at SL and will be saving it for the right moment. He has accused many on this site of slanderous and libelous (he spelled it lible) posts, but none compare with his post this morning.
I also copied his slanderous post regarding a staff person at SL and will be saving it for the right moment. He has accused many on this site of slanderous and libelous (he spelled it lible) posts, but none compare with his post this morning.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:12PM
Question -
Does anyone know how groups are taking FFX County school buses to the meetings tomorrow? Do they PAY for the buses or are the schools providing these - example Herndon High has at least one bus going to Chantilly for the first round of meetings.
Additionally, have heard anecdotally that some school principals have come out for/against redistricting boundary changes. Have others heard the same? Any specifics?
Does anyone know how groups are taking FFX County school buses to the meetings tomorrow? Do they PAY for the buses or are the schools providing these - example Herndon High has at least one bus going to Chantilly for the first round of meetings.
Additionally, have heard anecdotally that some school principals have come out for/against redistricting boundary changes. Have others heard the same? Any specifics?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Muse
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:13PM
I should have said John Farrell. My bad: Thomas More/John Farrell.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:19PM
Can we get back to the more productive discussion of school adjustment scenarios and the important considerations that need to be considered in the process. Am I more nervous than the rest of you or am I just an information nut?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:21PM
Muse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More is most definitely Tom Farrell. There
> is no one else is the SL Seahawk community with
> his views, animus, particular gripes with staff,
> and delusions of grandeur. I think the initials
> K.O. probably stood for 'kiss off.'
>
> I also copied his slanderous post regarding a
> staff person at SL and will be saving it for the
> right moment. He has accused many on this site of
> slanderous and libelous (he spelled it lible)
> posts, but none compare with his post this
> morning.
Although I do know some SL parents, I won't pretend to have any idea who is who on this board. However, I agree with Hollywood that people should be allowed their privacy. What if the supposed identity is wrong? I have left clues that a determined stalker could probably piece together and maybe figure out who I am, but I would expect that anyone who wants to know would ask me off-line (and unless I already know you in the real world, I won't confirm). I was also put off by the sexual orientation post, but TM has apologized for that. Maybe he's homophobic, maybe not, but whether he is Tom Farrell or not should not be debated here. Playing Gottcha will scare people away, which would be a shame. I feel like I've learned a lot since I discovered this message board. Frankly, I spend too much time here, but it's often entertaining as well as educational.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More is most definitely Tom Farrell. There
> is no one else is the SL Seahawk community with
> his views, animus, particular gripes with staff,
> and delusions of grandeur. I think the initials
> K.O. probably stood for 'kiss off.'
>
> I also copied his slanderous post regarding a
> staff person at SL and will be saving it for the
> right moment. He has accused many on this site of
> slanderous and libelous (he spelled it lible)
> posts, but none compare with his post this
> morning.
Although I do know some SL parents, I won't pretend to have any idea who is who on this board. However, I agree with Hollywood that people should be allowed their privacy. What if the supposed identity is wrong? I have left clues that a determined stalker could probably piece together and maybe figure out who I am, but I would expect that anyone who wants to know would ask me off-line (and unless I already know you in the real world, I won't confirm). I was also put off by the sexual orientation post, but TM has apologized for that. Maybe he's homophobic, maybe not, but whether he is Tom Farrell or not should not be debated here. Playing Gottcha will scare people away, which would be a shame. I feel like I've learned a lot since I discovered this message board. Frankly, I spend too much time here, but it's often entertaining as well as educational.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Hollywood
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:21PM
Enough with the sewing circle guessing games. The point of this board was to talk about the High Schools, not act like we're in them. As fun as it is to arbitrarily throw names out there, Old Timer had a question, let's find him an answer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:24PM
Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I would suppose you don't wish to publish
> > a false statement that may harm her reputation.
>
> First let me say that forums such as these are
> hard to carry such
> important discussions. Inflections and tone can
> be lost and misread
> and I fear that has happened here. I have no
> problem with anyone's
> sexual orientation, the point of the argument was
> to bring up concerns
> parents might have about bringing their children
> to SL. If you've read my
> past posts you'll know how highly I think of the
> SL student body and
> how I think they are SL best attribute. However,
> if we proceed
> without acknowledging some of SL's faults, we do
> the school and future
> student body a disservice. For if we do not ask
> the question, "Why
> can't it be better?" then who will?
>
TM - Please please keep this forum about redistricting. You obviously have concerns/complaints about the school and want someone - staff/parents/students to acknowledge their faults. EVERY single high school, middle school, and elementary school in this study has problems with imperfect humans. All the schools have similar problems - our elementary school is one. The principal is well regarded as is the school, everyone LOVES IT; however, I can name countless incidents and problems that were either overlooked, blown off, etc. concerning staff, curriculum, blah blah blah. BUT I don't air those hear as this is not the forum for doing so.
Obviously you care deeply about Reston and South Lakes. I'm supportive of your zeal in that.
You also must feel you and your kids got the rotten end of some bad deal made by Stu and Railly or whomever. We do feel for you.
But enough is enough.
Let's focus on the future. And how we can make the school, this redistricting work for all involved.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I would suppose you don't wish to publish
> > a false statement that may harm her reputation.
>
> First let me say that forums such as these are
> hard to carry such
> important discussions. Inflections and tone can
> be lost and misread
> and I fear that has happened here. I have no
> problem with anyone's
> sexual orientation, the point of the argument was
> to bring up concerns
> parents might have about bringing their children
> to SL. If you've read my
> past posts you'll know how highly I think of the
> SL student body and
> how I think they are SL best attribute. However,
> if we proceed
> without acknowledging some of SL's faults, we do
> the school and future
> student body a disservice. For if we do not ask
> the question, "Why
> can't it be better?" then who will?
>
TM - Please please keep this forum about redistricting. You obviously have concerns/complaints about the school and want someone - staff/parents/students to acknowledge their faults. EVERY single high school, middle school, and elementary school in this study has problems with imperfect humans. All the schools have similar problems - our elementary school is one. The principal is well regarded as is the school, everyone LOVES IT; however, I can name countless incidents and problems that were either overlooked, blown off, etc. concerning staff, curriculum, blah blah blah. BUT I don't air those hear as this is not the forum for doing so.
Obviously you care deeply about Reston and South Lakes. I'm supportive of your zeal in that.
You also must feel you and your kids got the rotten end of some bad deal made by Stu and Railly or whomever. We do feel for you.
But enough is enough.
Let's focus on the future. And how we can make the school, this redistricting work for all involved.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:36PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question -
>
> Does anyone know how groups are taking FFX County
> school buses to the meetings tomorrow? Do they
> PAY for the buses or are the schools providing
> these - example Herndon High has at least one bus
> going to Chantilly for the first round of
> meetings.
>
> Additionally, have heard anecdotally that some
> school principals have come out for/against
> redistricting boundary changes. Have others heard
> the same? Any specifics?
I have not heard anything about school principals, but I do know that there are PTO presidents driving their executive boards to push or not push any agendas. Unfortunately, Oakton's PTSA has chosen to do nothing. I do know many of the teachers and extracurricular sponsors at Oakton are worried sick about their programs as I've spoken with several of them in the last few weeks. They are also wondering why it was okay for Herndon's PTA to be very vocal but Oakton's is choosing to do nothing.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question -
>
> Does anyone know how groups are taking FFX County
> school buses to the meetings tomorrow? Do they
> PAY for the buses or are the schools providing
> these - example Herndon High has at least one bus
> going to Chantilly for the first round of
> meetings.
>
> Additionally, have heard anecdotally that some
> school principals have come out for/against
> redistricting boundary changes. Have others heard
> the same? Any specifics?
I have not heard anything about school principals, but I do know that there are PTO presidents driving their executive boards to push or not push any agendas. Unfortunately, Oakton's PTSA has chosen to do nothing. I do know many of the teachers and extracurricular sponsors at Oakton are worried sick about their programs as I've spoken with several of them in the last few weeks. They are also wondering why it was okay for Herndon's PTA to be very vocal but Oakton's is choosing to do nothing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
annoyed
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:36PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
I was also put off
> by the sexual orientation post, but TM has
> apologized for that.
But John Farrell hasn't removed the slanderous post, has he? Nope, it's still there. I'm not just guessing that the author is John W. Farrell. I wouldn't mess with an attorney if I wasn't positively certain.
I feel like
> I've learned a lot since I discovered this message
> board. Frankly, I spend too much time here, but
> it's often entertaining as well as educational.
And John Farrell is certainly providing you with useful and relevent information about his perception of the sexual orientation of certain individuals at SLHS. How can you defend him?
I was also put off
> by the sexual orientation post, but TM has
> apologized for that.
But John Farrell hasn't removed the slanderous post, has he? Nope, it's still there. I'm not just guessing that the author is John W. Farrell. I wouldn't mess with an attorney if I wasn't positively certain.
I feel like
> I've learned a lot since I discovered this message
> board. Frankly, I spend too much time here, but
> it's often entertaining as well as educational.
And John Farrell is certainly providing you with useful and relevent information about his perception of the sexual orientation of certain individuals at SLHS. How can you defend him?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:50PM
>>>They were also concerned that Lindsey and Linda’s orientation would reduced girls participation rates in sports at SL. These issues were brought to Bruce’s attention. He gave Linda the job anyway and Lindsey got the ADSA job anyway.<<<
Surely you aren't saying that there should be discrimination based on sexual orientation, are you? That would certainly not be supported by the good liberals who run FCPS. How are lesbians to get ahead with attitudes like your's? Tsk, tsk, Thomas More.
Surely you aren't saying that there should be discrimination based on sexual orientation, are you? That would certainly not be supported by the good liberals who run FCPS. How are lesbians to get ahead with attitudes like your's? Tsk, tsk, Thomas More.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:51PM
Thomas More - I don't think the issue is that of orientation, although I could see how some could perceive it that way. But it really ought to be resisted. The issue should always be of professionalism (son of a female PE teacher speaking here) and concern for development of young people, irrespective of one's orientation or private life. So I don't think it helpful to view whatever issues may exist through the optics of orientation. By and large I have noticed that coaches, parents, supporters and the like appear to be equally enthusiastic and supportive of both the boys and girls teams. This was borne out personally in attending a Virginia state championship event yesterday, where prior to the event the excitement and sense of competitive apprehension was the same, and after the event the same form of blessed relief and camaraderie prevailed among both genders. And no doubt there were coaches and athletic directors attending the event of all kinds and walks of life.
If (and I don't know this is the case), an athletic administrator or coach is not acting professionally and supporting both sets of teams in an enthusiastic and professional way, (and that would confound me, because in my own experience most adult ex-jocks get an equal kick out of the boys and girls events), than that needs to directly be addressed. High school kids are not professional athletes or even quasi-professional athletes such as with NCAA Div. 1 types, and refraining from being enthusiastic and supportive to any one group (unless specific individuals have behavioral or accountability issues) will be seen as a slight, especially when one considers that for most people high school is the last time they will participate in organized sports and emotions can run strong. Would not a discourse that comments (provided it is factual) on how an administrator relates to the entire athletic community be more appropriate? And in my view, given the population of South Lakes (relatively small), I think their sports teams do well, although there may be gripes with individual squads.
If (and I don't know this is the case), an athletic administrator or coach is not acting professionally and supporting both sets of teams in an enthusiastic and professional way, (and that would confound me, because in my own experience most adult ex-jocks get an equal kick out of the boys and girls events), than that needs to directly be addressed. High school kids are not professional athletes or even quasi-professional athletes such as with NCAA Div. 1 types, and refraining from being enthusiastic and supportive to any one group (unless specific individuals have behavioral or accountability issues) will be seen as a slight, especially when one considers that for most people high school is the last time they will participate in organized sports and emotions can run strong. Would not a discourse that comments (provided it is factual) on how an administrator relates to the entire athletic community be more appropriate? And in my view, given the population of South Lakes (relatively small), I think their sports teams do well, although there may be gripes with individual squads.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:57PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have not heard anything about school principals,
> but I do know that there are PTO presidents
> driving their executive boards to push or not push
> any agendas. Unfortunately, Oakton's PTSA has
> chosen to do nothing. I do know many of the
> teachers and extracurricular sponsors at Oakton
> are worried sick about their programs as I've
> spoken with several of them in the last few weeks.
> They are also wondering why it was okay for
> Herndon's PTA to be very vocal but Oakton's is
> choosing to do nothing.
I served on several PTSA boards in the past, and twice during redistricting fights. If memory serves, our bylaws stated that we were not allowed to endorse a preferred outcome. I guess it depends upon how the bylaws are written, but I know that the boiler-plate stuff comes from the County or State PTSA Council, so the answer may be with them.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I have not heard anything about school principals,
> but I do know that there are PTO presidents
> driving their executive boards to push or not push
> any agendas. Unfortunately, Oakton's PTSA has
> chosen to do nothing. I do know many of the
> teachers and extracurricular sponsors at Oakton
> are worried sick about their programs as I've
> spoken with several of them in the last few weeks.
> They are also wondering why it was okay for
> Herndon's PTA to be very vocal but Oakton's is
> choosing to do nothing.
I served on several PTSA boards in the past, and twice during redistricting fights. If memory serves, our bylaws stated that we were not allowed to endorse a preferred outcome. I guess it depends upon how the bylaws are written, but I know that the boiler-plate stuff comes from the County or State PTSA Council, so the answer may be with them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:59PM
>>>>by effectively underenrolling Westfields to meet the random new capacity criteria, you are creating 300-400 empty seats there.<<<
More like 700 empty seats at Westfield, to fill 700 empty seats at South Lakes. Westfield is too large (by this year's FCPS standard of perfect high school size) and South Lakes is too small. They have to make every school 'just right'. FCPS is striving for all Goldilocks high schools, this year. Next year they may well have a new philosophy.
It makes NO sense to move 700 empty seats from one school to another school. But that is the reality since NO school is over crowded. There will have to empty seats somewhere.
More like 700 empty seats at Westfield, to fill 700 empty seats at South Lakes. Westfield is too large (by this year's FCPS standard of perfect high school size) and South Lakes is too small. They have to make every school 'just right'. FCPS is striving for all Goldilocks high schools, this year. Next year they may well have a new philosophy.
It makes NO sense to move 700 empty seats from one school to another school. But that is the reality since NO school is over crowded. There will have to empty seats somewhere.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:03PM
PTO's are not under PTA rules. PTSAs might be the same. They are run by their school and can do whatever they want. They are not controlled by state or national PTA rules. That's why schools elect to have a PTO rather than join in the PTA organization, they are independent and can do what they want.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:07PM
>>>>for most people high school is the last time they will participate in organized sports<<<<
I would agree with you which makes me wonder why so many students spend so much time on sports and why our schools do too.
I would agree with you which makes me wonder why so many students spend so much time on sports and why our schools do too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:07PM
Neen,
I was talking to a Westfield parent today who said that Westfield IS overcrowded, that her and her neighbor's kids lament the lack of opportunities in sports, etc. for their kids.
18 trailers? Sounds overcrowded to me. Trailers should not be counted as true capacity.
I was talking to a Westfield parent today who said that Westfield IS overcrowded, that her and her neighbor's kids lament the lack of opportunities in sports, etc. for their kids.
18 trailers? Sounds overcrowded to me. Trailers should not be counted as true capacity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:16PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PTO's are not under PTA rules. PTSAs might be the
> same. They are run by their school and can do
> whatever they want. They are not controlled by
> state or national PTA rules. That's why schools
> elect to have a PTO rather than join in the PTA
> organization, they are independent and can do what
> they want.
I understand about the difference between PTOs/PTAs etc. Herndon's PTSA is under county, state, and national PTA rules/bylaws. I've reviewed their bylaws and they seem to be on shaky ground by taking a position.
I am more concerned about about Fairfax County employees and Fairfax County buses NOT about parents.
-------------------------------------------------------
> PTO's are not under PTA rules. PTSAs might be the
> same. They are run by their school and can do
> whatever they want. They are not controlled by
> state or national PTA rules. That's why schools
> elect to have a PTO rather than join in the PTA
> organization, they are independent and can do what
> they want.
I understand about the difference between PTOs/PTAs etc. Herndon's PTSA is under county, state, and national PTA rules/bylaws. I've reviewed their bylaws and they seem to be on shaky ground by taking a position.
I am more concerned about about Fairfax County employees and Fairfax County buses NOT about parents.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:22PM
Why don't the FCPS numbers reflect that over crowding? Current enrollment at Westfield is 3,171 students. School capacity is 3,100 students. In five years, Westfield will have 2,900 students, 200 UNDER enrolled. If FCPS removes even 500 students, in 5 years Westfield will have just as many empty seats as South Lakes.
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
Are the trailers used for classrooms or staff offices or are they empty, but nowhere to move them?
Yes, the staff's argument is that Westfield is too large for everyone to get on sports teams. Then why the heck did they build it that large? I do not find sports a compelling reasons for redistricting.
The reality is that no school around South Lakes is over enrolled now, by more than a handful, and ALL will be under enrolled in five years. There are no excess students to put into South Lakes. Period. In five years we can have South Lakes still 700 under enrolled, or Westfield 700 under enrolled. Or we can spread them out and make 4 schools under enrolled by 200. Why bother? There is simply no compelling reason to move all these students only to create empty seats at other schools. (Sports is not a compelling reason. Nor are jewelry making classes, anime, or guitar lessons.)
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/townmeeting11-12-07.pdf
Are the trailers used for classrooms or staff offices or are they empty, but nowhere to move them?
Yes, the staff's argument is that Westfield is too large for everyone to get on sports teams. Then why the heck did they build it that large? I do not find sports a compelling reasons for redistricting.
The reality is that no school around South Lakes is over enrolled now, by more than a handful, and ALL will be under enrolled in five years. There are no excess students to put into South Lakes. Period. In five years we can have South Lakes still 700 under enrolled, or Westfield 700 under enrolled. Or we can spread them out and make 4 schools under enrolled by 200. Why bother? There is simply no compelling reason to move all these students only to create empty seats at other schools. (Sports is not a compelling reason. Nor are jewelry making classes, anime, or guitar lessons.)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:26PM
Neen,
Capacity as calculated includes trailers. So I guess you think that trailers are true capacity?
Capacity as calculated includes trailers. So I guess you think that trailers are true capacity?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:29PM
I don't think you are correct since the staff says Westfield was built, and an addition added, to accommodate 3,100 students.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:30PM
Annoyed,
May I suggest that you remove your threatening post directed at Thomas More?
I assume that you know your IP is logged here.
Thank you.
May I suggest that you remove your threatening post directed at Thomas More?
I assume that you know your IP is logged here.
Thank you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Muse
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:40PM
You know what they say: Birds of a feather....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 04:44PM
Muse, what do you mean?
Did Thomas More threaten someone here? I have seen no one do that, other than
"annoyed", who is most annoying.
Did Thomas More threaten someone here? I have seen no one do that, other than
"annoyed", who is most annoying.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Westfield Parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 05:00PM
Westfield is NOT too over-crowded to make a sports team! That is complete BS and just an excuse to reduce the enrollment when Westfield will be under-enrolled by next fall and substantially under-enrolled in subsequent years. My daughter, son and their friends (all from the Floris pyramid) have NEVER, EVER had any difficulty making a sports team and play all year in something. I honestly don't know where all this is coming from. They always give everyone an opportunity to participate. Some just can't handle the rigor of the practices which are daily and just drop out. This may account for their attitudes when they claim that there's too much competition to make a team. It's not a "house" league and there is some dedication and perservance required to make a Varsity team, JV and Freshman are more lenient.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
annoyed
()
Date: November 11, 2007 05:13PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Annoyed,
> May I suggest that you remove your threatening
> post directed at Thomas More?
>
> I assume that you know your IP is logged here.
I'm scared...How are my posts threatening? Being called a lawyer isn't so bad, is it?
John Farrell's "revelations" about the sexual orientation of several SLHS employees was posted with the intent of slandering these individuals. Many of you write as if he is simply confirming common knowledge, but there has never been so much as a rumor about this floating around SLHS. His intent is to make a shocking disclosure, but he's a moron. He knows nothing!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Annoyed,
> May I suggest that you remove your threatening
> post directed at Thomas More?
>
> I assume that you know your IP is logged here.
I'm scared...How are my posts threatening? Being called a lawyer isn't so bad, is it?
John Farrell's "revelations" about the sexual orientation of several SLHS employees was posted with the intent of slandering these individuals. Many of you write as if he is simply confirming common knowledge, but there has never been so much as a rumor about this floating around SLHS. His intent is to make a shocking disclosure, but he's a moron. He knows nothing!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 05:20PM
Westfield Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield is NOT too over-crowded to make a sports
> team! That is complete BS and just an excuse to
> reduce the enrollment when Westfield will be
> under-enrolled by next fall and substantially
> under-enrolled in subsequent years. My daughter,
> son and their friends (all from the Floris
> pyramid) have NEVER, EVER had any difficulty
> making a sports team and play all year in
> something. I honestly don't know where all this
> is coming from. They always give everyone an
> opportunity to participate. Some just can't
> handle the rigor of the practices which are daily
> and just drop out. This may account for their
> attitudes when they claim that there's too much
> competition to make a team. It's not a "house"
> league and there is some dedication and
> perservance required to make a Varsity team, JV
> and Freshman are more lenient.
Well, some sports teams are harder to make than others based on what I've seen at Oakton. If your point is that redistricting shouldn't be done just to make it easier for kids to make teams, then I mostly agree with that. I can see how it would be frustrating at a huge school not to be able to participate in things that have limited slots. I can see how it would be frustrating at SL not to have all the goodies that larger schools have, although I must say that the list of SL electives that was posted was an eye-opener.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield is NOT too over-crowded to make a sports
> team! That is complete BS and just an excuse to
> reduce the enrollment when Westfield will be
> under-enrolled by next fall and substantially
> under-enrolled in subsequent years. My daughter,
> son and their friends (all from the Floris
> pyramid) have NEVER, EVER had any difficulty
> making a sports team and play all year in
> something. I honestly don't know where all this
> is coming from. They always give everyone an
> opportunity to participate. Some just can't
> handle the rigor of the practices which are daily
> and just drop out. This may account for their
> attitudes when they claim that there's too much
> competition to make a team. It's not a "house"
> league and there is some dedication and
> perservance required to make a Varsity team, JV
> and Freshman are more lenient.
Well, some sports teams are harder to make than others based on what I've seen at Oakton. If your point is that redistricting shouldn't be done just to make it easier for kids to make teams, then I mostly agree with that. I can see how it would be frustrating at a huge school not to be able to participate in things that have limited slots. I can see how it would be frustrating at SL not to have all the goodies that larger schools have, although I must say that the list of SL electives that was posted was an eye-opener.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Muse
()
Date: November 11, 2007 05:22PM
Perhaps someone is scared that you will 'out' her, annoyed. Maybe you should. I notice Thomas More has not been back since he was revealed. Then we could get back to the subject at hand, instead of bash SL and its students all the time, as some like to do.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Westfield Parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 05:51PM
Well yes you're right, some teams would be harder to make than others. But, you can't expect someone to just randomly try out for ay the basketball team that hasn't had a lot of experience. That's just the way it is. If you have a pool of kids trying out for the high school basketball team that hasn't been playing on a select team, they would need to bring some extraordinary talent to the table. This is especially true at South Lakes -- their basketball teams are exceptional because they feed in from Reston Select Teams. Even with the low enrollment that they have, it's very difficult to make their basketball teams!
And yes, this is a completely ridiculous reason to disrupt all these schools because they're trying to make it easier for kids to make a sports team.
And yes, this is a completely ridiculous reason to disrupt all these schools because they're trying to make it easier for kids to make a sports team.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 11, 2007 06:03PM
From a SL perspective, it would be nice to have a bench as deep as some other schools. There are two sides to every issue.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 11, 2007 06:36PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From a SL perspective, it would be nice to have a
> bench as deep as some other schools. There are
> two sides to every issue.
And like I said before, if you get all those kids from a powerhouse sports program like Westfield, the ones sitting the bench will be the South Lakes kids who wanted a deeper bench. Will they be happy not playing? The same thing can be said for the music program. I know that in the all district bands, not many kids from South Lakes make districts. That has nothing to do with the size of the program because that is an individual audition. They will now be competing for chairs in their own program with kids from Westfield, Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly send many kids to districts and will likely take those top spots. It goes back to what the student was saying earlier on this forum. The kids at South Lakes actually benefit from a smaller pool of kids in the sports programs because they all get to play. That will go away. I know you said that is a benefit you are willing to risk to get bigger teams and more volunteers, but is it worth it for the kids who will no longer be able to participate as actively?
-------------------------------------------------------
> From a SL perspective, it would be nice to have a
> bench as deep as some other schools. There are
> two sides to every issue.
And like I said before, if you get all those kids from a powerhouse sports program like Westfield, the ones sitting the bench will be the South Lakes kids who wanted a deeper bench. Will they be happy not playing? The same thing can be said for the music program. I know that in the all district bands, not many kids from South Lakes make districts. That has nothing to do with the size of the program because that is an individual audition. They will now be competing for chairs in their own program with kids from Westfield, Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly send many kids to districts and will likely take those top spots. It goes back to what the student was saying earlier on this forum. The kids at South Lakes actually benefit from a smaller pool of kids in the sports programs because they all get to play. That will go away. I know you said that is a benefit you are willing to risk to get bigger teams and more volunteers, but is it worth it for the kids who will no longer be able to participate as actively?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 11, 2007 07:08PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
>
>
> The same thing can be said for
> the music program. I know that in the all
> district bands, not many kids from South Lakes
> make districts. That has nothing to do with the
> size of the program because that is an individual
> audition. They will now be competing for chairs
> in their own program with kids from Westfield,
> Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly send
> many kids to districts and will likely take those
> top spots.
Please don't confuse size with talent. You may want to check your numbers on All-District Band. SL has sent many kids to All-District Band, most in great chair positions. I recall that we actually sent more than Chantilly two or three years ago. I will ask the band director for the stats and post them here this week. If I am to understand you correctly, are you saying that percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly would have beaten out, for example, Kyle Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist at the Juilliard School, for first chair percussion? Just because we are smaller does not mean we don't have talented kids. We just don't have as many of them.
Are you also saying that the odds are just as good if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that the odds are on the larger group.
>
>
> The same thing can be said for
> the music program. I know that in the all
> district bands, not many kids from South Lakes
> make districts. That has nothing to do with the
> size of the program because that is an individual
> audition. They will now be competing for chairs
> in their own program with kids from Westfield,
> Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly send
> many kids to districts and will likely take those
> top spots.
Please don't confuse size with talent. You may want to check your numbers on All-District Band. SL has sent many kids to All-District Band, most in great chair positions. I recall that we actually sent more than Chantilly two or three years ago. I will ask the band director for the stats and post them here this week. If I am to understand you correctly, are you saying that percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly would have beaten out, for example, Kyle Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist at the Juilliard School, for first chair percussion? Just because we are smaller does not mean we don't have talented kids. We just don't have as many of them.
Are you also saying that the odds are just as good if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that the odds are on the larger group.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Future SLHS Parent
()
Date: November 11, 2007 09:07PM
The material prepared by the FCSB is very clear about the advantages and disadvantages of over/under crowded highschools. The whole issue of re-districting is about balance. Why do you want your highschooler(s) attending a school that is over-crowded? Conversly, I do not want my child to attend a school that is not afforded the advantages of a fully enrolled school. In addition I do not think that my districted highschool should be burdened with such a high percentage of ESOL and free lunch students (when compared to other Western FFX schools) when SLHS is physically (location wise) the obvious choice for attendance of a much more diverse/balanced student population.
My district is SLHS, the issue of me is to gain the best education possible for my children. The folks who would potentially be moving to SLHS, in many cases should have been attending there to begin with (at least based on physical proximity to SLHS).
My district is SLHS, the issue of me is to gain the best education possible for my children. The folks who would potentially be moving to SLHS, in many cases should have been attending there to begin with (at least based on physical proximity to SLHS).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
FCPS Gamepiece
()
Date: November 11, 2007 10:01PM
Who exactly are you speaking to? You're not even AT at high school yet. You bought your home like everyone else to be in a school district. Stop trying to force people into your school to solve their problems. Our schools ARENT crowded - read the CIPs.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Teacher
()
Date: November 11, 2007 10:53PM
It seems that much of this debate is more about the reputation of SLHS than over statistics, so I simply wanted to speak my peace. I am a northern VA native. I went to Floris, Franklin, and Oakton, so I know where many of you are coming from when you envision your children attending SLHS. I probably would have felt the same way as many of you if I were told I would be switching schools ten years ago. Even when I interviewed for a job, I went in with the preconceived notion that SL was incomparable to most of the other schools in the county on a variety of levels.
However, throughout the past three years, I have had an amazing experience, thus debunking my naive notions. The staff and faculty are enthusiastic and knowledgeable, and I have met a plethora of students who aspire to be their bests, despite their economic backgrounds, family histories, or language deficiencies. True, we have a higher number of English Language Learners at SLHS-- a fact that will have a clear impact on state SOL and SAT scores and one that many seem to disregard when drawing comparisons.
Diversity is ubiquitous at SLHS, but this does not mean hoards of gang members and poor underachievers- a misconception that I have heard throughout the community. I see students befriend each other from different backgrounds and ethnicities. The students even pride themselves on the lack of structured "cliques" that germinate in most large schools.
I'm there every day. I am a witness to the students' achievements. I care deeply about the students and their education, and I challenge those of you who fear change or the reputation of SLHS to e-mail Bruce Butler; request a tour/observation/meeting/whatever you WANT to help put your mind at ease. I'm excited about the final stages of renovation and the positive changes that are occurring, whether they are visible or not. Re-districting is inevitable, so if your neighborhood is involved, please check things out for yourself before fighting "tooth and nail." That's all. :)
However, throughout the past three years, I have had an amazing experience, thus debunking my naive notions. The staff and faculty are enthusiastic and knowledgeable, and I have met a plethora of students who aspire to be their bests, despite their economic backgrounds, family histories, or language deficiencies. True, we have a higher number of English Language Learners at SLHS-- a fact that will have a clear impact on state SOL and SAT scores and one that many seem to disregard when drawing comparisons.
Diversity is ubiquitous at SLHS, but this does not mean hoards of gang members and poor underachievers- a misconception that I have heard throughout the community. I see students befriend each other from different backgrounds and ethnicities. The students even pride themselves on the lack of structured "cliques" that germinate in most large schools.
I'm there every day. I am a witness to the students' achievements. I care deeply about the students and their education, and I challenge those of you who fear change or the reputation of SLHS to e-mail Bruce Butler; request a tour/observation/meeting/whatever you WANT to help put your mind at ease. I'm excited about the final stages of renovation and the positive changes that are occurring, whether they are visible or not. Re-districting is inevitable, so if your neighborhood is involved, please check things out for yourself before fighting "tooth and nail." That's all. :)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 11:24PM
Muse and Annoyed,
How proud you must be of your bullying. Another fine example of South Lakes parents? And you wonder why people don't want anything to do with your school.
Please, direct us to any libelous post by Thomas More. We'll wait.
You are disgusting people who can't debate so you turn to insults and ad homineum attacks. You have done nothing but confirm the worst fears of those who don't want to attend South Lakes. Congratulations! You've hurt your own cause! How proud you must be.
How proud you must be of your bullying. Another fine example of South Lakes parents? And you wonder why people don't want anything to do with your school.
Please, direct us to any libelous post by Thomas More. We'll wait.
You are disgusting people who can't debate so you turn to insults and ad homineum attacks. You have done nothing but confirm the worst fears of those who don't want to attend South Lakes. Congratulations! You've hurt your own cause! How proud you must be.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Fox Mill Mom
()
Date: November 11, 2007 11:26PM
Why is redistricting inevitable? There's no justification for it all. Floris was just moved 7 years ago from Oakton (but they're happy at Westfield and want to stay there) and Fox Mill and Crossfields don't want to leave Oakton. You say that you would not have liked being moved from Oakton, so why are you forcing it on everyone else. We do we have to clean up the mess that's been created by the school board. There is absolutely no reason to move anyone. You people at South Lakes just want it all. No one wants to go to this school. No one wants to leave their current school. It's completely unnecessary to force all this upon us when the school board is trying to justify their extravagant renovations. Go enjoy your nice, big state-of-the art school. You're welcome from the taxpayers, but we're just not interested in sharing in your joy so leave everyone else out of it!! Make a magnet school if you're so hell-bent in forcing people to attend. We don't want any part of it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 11:30PM
A magnet, like the ones at Montgomery Blair, ATTRACT students. They are competitive and not everyone can get in, although many want in. Such a program at South Lakes would attract students TO the school, just as those programs attract students to Blair. Why NOT do that, rather than simply FORCE students to go to a school they do not want to attend and that does not offer those attractive programs? What's wrong with making South Lakes a school that people WANT to attend?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 11, 2007 11:32PM
>>>My district is SLHS<<< You need not say anything more. Of course we all understand that you want to improve South Lakes for your children. But there are much better ways that forcing other students into it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: November 12, 2007 12:00AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My district is SLHS<<< You need not say
> anything more. Of course we all understand that
> you want to improve South Lakes for your children.
> But there are much better ways that forcing other
> students into it.
TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My district is SLHS<<< You need not say
> anything more. Of course we all understand that
> you want to improve South Lakes for your children.
> But there are much better ways that forcing other
> students into it.
TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 12:04AM
Huh? How am I a troll? I've been posting since September!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Muse
()
Date: November 12, 2007 12:29AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Muse and Annoyed,
> How proud you must be of your bullying. Another
> fine example of South Lakes parents? And you
> wonder why people don't want anything to do with
> your school.
>
> Please, direct us to any libelous post by Thomas
> More. We'll wait.
>
> You are disgusting people who can't debate so you
> turn to insults and ad homineum attacks. You have
> done nothing but confirm the worst fears of those
> who don't want to attend South Lakes.
> Congratulations! You've hurt your own cause! How
> proud you must be.
Well the fact that Thomas removed his slanderous post speaks volumes about its true nature. I have seen both of you bully many people posting here, including students. This site is anonymous, but it does not give posters cover to report rumors about specific people as fact. I for one am glad that he was exposed. Until today, I did not post but just lurked with interest, reading the comments of others. But I had to speak up today when I saw the dangerous nature of his post, which had the potential to hurt a coach and her family, and another staff person and her family.
Be angry if you like. It is not my problem.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Muse and Annoyed,
> How proud you must be of your bullying. Another
> fine example of South Lakes parents? And you
> wonder why people don't want anything to do with
> your school.
>
> Please, direct us to any libelous post by Thomas
> More. We'll wait.
>
> You are disgusting people who can't debate so you
> turn to insults and ad homineum attacks. You have
> done nothing but confirm the worst fears of those
> who don't want to attend South Lakes.
> Congratulations! You've hurt your own cause! How
> proud you must be.
Well the fact that Thomas removed his slanderous post speaks volumes about its true nature. I have seen both of you bully many people posting here, including students. This site is anonymous, but it does not give posters cover to report rumors about specific people as fact. I for one am glad that he was exposed. Until today, I did not post but just lurked with interest, reading the comments of others. But I had to speak up today when I saw the dangerous nature of his post, which had the potential to hurt a coach and her family, and another staff person and her family.
Be angry if you like. It is not my problem.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Muse
()
Date: November 12, 2007 12:35AM
Neen, I forgot to ask, how do you know we are South Lakes parents? Please don't also paint them negatively with your broad brush. You've painted lesbians with it, low income students with it, all of Reston with it, liberals with it, the school board with it...have I left anyone out?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 03:29AM
I was addressing the parent who said she was a South Lakes parent!
What the hell is wrong with you Muse? Are you always this nasty?
I've never said anything about lesbians, other than I thought liberals wanted them to have jobs.
The only thing I ever said about low income kids is that I think they deserve an education and they aren't getting one.
Please try to play nice at the meeting tonight. I don't want to see anyone get hurt.
What the hell is wrong with you Muse? Are you always this nasty?
I've never said anything about lesbians, other than I thought liberals wanted them to have jobs.
The only thing I ever said about low income kids is that I think they deserve an education and they aren't getting one.
Please try to play nice at the meeting tonight. I don't want to see anyone get hurt.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 03:32AM
Thomas removed the post? yeah, sure. hahahaha.........nice try, except that it wasn't.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 12, 2007 07:12AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> >
> > The same thing can be said for
> > the music program. I know that in the all
> > district bands, not many kids from South Lakes
> > make districts. That has nothing to do with
> the
> > size of the program because that is an
> individual
> > audition. They will now be competing for
> chairs
> > in their own program with kids from Westfield,
> > Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly send
> > many kids to districts and will likely take
> those
> > top spots.
>
> Please don't confuse size with talent. You may
> want to check your numbers on All-District Band.
> SL has sent many kids to All-District Band, most
> in great chair positions. I recall that we
> actually sent more than Chantilly two or three
> years ago. I will ask the band director for the
> stats and post them here this week. If I am to
> understand you correctly, are you saying that
> percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly would
> have beaten out, for example, Kyle
> Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist at
> the Juilliard School, for first chair percussion?
> Just because we are smaller does not mean we don't
> have talented kids. We just don't have as many of
> them.
>
> Are you also saying that the odds are just as good
> if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids
> audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm pretty
> sure that the odds are on the larger group.
I do apologize if South Lakes has, in fact, sent more than the other schools on a percentage basis, though I don't think the stats will bear that out. A Julliard acceptance is quite an accomplishment, but one student does not make a program. Has the South Lakes band program ever recieved Honor Band status? I checked the VBODA website and it does not appear that it has, going back to 1981 anyway. I know that there are smaller bands that do recieve superiro ratings, so why would I want my children, should they participate in band, to be moved to a school with a program less optimal than that of the high school they are currently slated to attend? I have also heard anecdotally from someone wihtin the SL community that the band director at South Lakes is "salivating" over the possibility of getting some Oakton, Chantilly or Westfield kids.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> >
> > The same thing can be said for
> > the music program. I know that in the all
> > district bands, not many kids from South Lakes
> > make districts. That has nothing to do with
> the
> > size of the program because that is an
> individual
> > audition. They will now be competing for
> chairs
> > in their own program with kids from Westfield,
> > Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly send
> > many kids to districts and will likely take
> those
> > top spots.
>
> Please don't confuse size with talent. You may
> want to check your numbers on All-District Band.
> SL has sent many kids to All-District Band, most
> in great chair positions. I recall that we
> actually sent more than Chantilly two or three
> years ago. I will ask the band director for the
> stats and post them here this week. If I am to
> understand you correctly, are you saying that
> percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly would
> have beaten out, for example, Kyle
> Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist at
> the Juilliard School, for first chair percussion?
> Just because we are smaller does not mean we don't
> have talented kids. We just don't have as many of
> them.
>
> Are you also saying that the odds are just as good
> if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids
> audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm pretty
> sure that the odds are on the larger group.
I do apologize if South Lakes has, in fact, sent more than the other schools on a percentage basis, though I don't think the stats will bear that out. A Julliard acceptance is quite an accomplishment, but one student does not make a program. Has the South Lakes band program ever recieved Honor Band status? I checked the VBODA website and it does not appear that it has, going back to 1981 anyway. I know that there are smaller bands that do recieve superiro ratings, so why would I want my children, should they participate in band, to be moved to a school with a program less optimal than that of the high school they are currently slated to attend? I have also heard anecdotally from someone wihtin the SL community that the band director at South Lakes is "salivating" over the possibility of getting some Oakton, Chantilly or Westfield kids.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 12, 2007 07:22AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A magnet, like the ones at Montgomery Blair,
> ATTRACT students. They are competitive and not
> everyone can get in, although many want in. Such
> a program at South Lakes would attract students TO
> the school, just as those programs attract
> students to Blair. Why NOT do that, rather than
> simply FORCE students to go to a school they do
> not want to attend and that does not offer those
> attractive programs? What's wrong with making
> South Lakes a school that people WANT to attend?
When I asked the magnet question I was told that South Lakes doesn't WANT to be a magnet because they want to be a "community school." But apparently they only want to be a "community school" if it means they get to take a look at tax returns of potential student family households. I was also told, though not on this board, that creating a magnet school takes time...years, and this is a problem that needs fixing NOW. But grandfathering existing students, which they better by golly do, means it will be a minimum of three years before they get the student numbers they want. THen there are all those pupil placements that are going to happen to keep the numbers low as well. Seems to me they could plan for a magnet school to open in two years, have it full at the time it opens and not have to move anyone anywhere...except of coure those who actually WANT to move.
-------------------------------------------------------
> A magnet, like the ones at Montgomery Blair,
> ATTRACT students. They are competitive and not
> everyone can get in, although many want in. Such
> a program at South Lakes would attract students TO
> the school, just as those programs attract
> students to Blair. Why NOT do that, rather than
> simply FORCE students to go to a school they do
> not want to attend and that does not offer those
> attractive programs? What's wrong with making
> South Lakes a school that people WANT to attend?
When I asked the magnet question I was told that South Lakes doesn't WANT to be a magnet because they want to be a "community school." But apparently they only want to be a "community school" if it means they get to take a look at tax returns of potential student family households. I was also told, though not on this board, that creating a magnet school takes time...years, and this is a problem that needs fixing NOW. But grandfathering existing students, which they better by golly do, means it will be a minimum of three years before they get the student numbers they want. THen there are all those pupil placements that are going to happen to keep the numbers low as well. Seems to me they could plan for a magnet school to open in two years, have it full at the time it opens and not have to move anyone anywhere...except of coure those who actually WANT to move.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SRE
()
Date: November 12, 2007 09:36AM
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
...this is the thread that will not end.... it just goes on and on my friend..... some people started posting to it, not knowing what it was..... and they will continue posting to it forever just because...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 09:44AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A magnet, like the ones at Montgomery Blair,
> > ATTRACT students. They are competitive and not
> > everyone can get in, although many want in.
> Such
> > a program at South Lakes would attract students
> TO
> > the school, just as those programs attract
> > students to Blair. Why NOT do that, rather
> than
> > simply FORCE students to go to a school they do
> > not want to attend and that does not offer
> those
> > attractive programs? What's wrong with making
> > South Lakes a school that people WANT to
> attend?
>
>
> When I asked the magnet question I was told that
> South Lakes doesn't WANT to be a magnet because
> they want to be a "community school." But
> apparently they only want to be a "community
> school" if it means they get to take a look at tax
> returns of potential student family households. I
> was also told, though not on this board, that
> creating a magnet school takes time...years, and
> this is a problem that needs fixing NOW. But
> grandfathering existing students, which they
> better by golly do, means it will be a minimum of
> three years before they get the student numbers
> they want. THen there are all those pupil
> placements that are going to happen to keep the
> numbers low as well. Seems to me they could plan
> for a magnet school to open in two years, have it
> full at the time it opens and not have to move
> anyone anywhere...except of coure those who
> actually WANT to move.
There are pros and cons to doing a magnet school at SL, but it's annoying that the SB seems to have rejected it outright. I guess they think that changing boundaries is easier -ha! At this point I think they'd sooner do nothing than put a magnet in. As for some SL parents saying that they don't want a magnet, they want a community school, well, I hope that upon further reflection those people will realize that they sound a little insensitive, dismissing something that would solve most if not all of the school's problems w/o the upheaval of unwilling families. All of us, SL, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield, choose to live where we do in part because we liked the schools. I'll bet many of us would consider sending our kids to SL if there were a good magnet there. SL parents, can you at least be open to this? It seems like a fair compromise.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A magnet, like the ones at Montgomery Blair,
> > ATTRACT students. They are competitive and not
> > everyone can get in, although many want in.
> Such
> > a program at South Lakes would attract students
> TO
> > the school, just as those programs attract
> > students to Blair. Why NOT do that, rather
> than
> > simply FORCE students to go to a school they do
> > not want to attend and that does not offer
> those
> > attractive programs? What's wrong with making
> > South Lakes a school that people WANT to
> attend?
>
>
> When I asked the magnet question I was told that
> South Lakes doesn't WANT to be a magnet because
> they want to be a "community school." But
> apparently they only want to be a "community
> school" if it means they get to take a look at tax
> returns of potential student family households. I
> was also told, though not on this board, that
> creating a magnet school takes time...years, and
> this is a problem that needs fixing NOW. But
> grandfathering existing students, which they
> better by golly do, means it will be a minimum of
> three years before they get the student numbers
> they want. THen there are all those pupil
> placements that are going to happen to keep the
> numbers low as well. Seems to me they could plan
> for a magnet school to open in two years, have it
> full at the time it opens and not have to move
> anyone anywhere...except of coure those who
> actually WANT to move.
There are pros and cons to doing a magnet school at SL, but it's annoying that the SB seems to have rejected it outright. I guess they think that changing boundaries is easier -ha! At this point I think they'd sooner do nothing than put a magnet in. As for some SL parents saying that they don't want a magnet, they want a community school, well, I hope that upon further reflection those people will realize that they sound a little insensitive, dismissing something that would solve most if not all of the school's problems w/o the upheaval of unwilling families. All of us, SL, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield, choose to live where we do in part because we liked the schools. I'll bet many of us would consider sending our kids to SL if there were a good magnet there. SL parents, can you at least be open to this? It seems like a fair compromise.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Future SLHS Parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:14AM
FCPS Gamepiece Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who exactly are you speaking to? You're not even
> AT at high school yet. You bought your home like
> everyone else to be in a school district. Stop
> trying to force people into your school to solve
> their problems. Our schools ARENT crowded - read
> the CIPs.
I'm speaking to you now, previously I was giving my opinion.
So I shouldn't worry about the school my child attends just because he isn't there yet? Don't you begin looking at colleges before you go? And actually if you read the FCPS material it is clear that schools ARE over-crowded. The school distribution should be FAIR, each school should be afforded the same opportunities. That what this re-districting is all about. We all pay for these schools through our taxes, and with time thru parent involvement. Don't you think that any FCPS you attend should have the same opportunities available to it's students?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who exactly are you speaking to? You're not even
> AT at high school yet. You bought your home like
> everyone else to be in a school district. Stop
> trying to force people into your school to solve
> their problems. Our schools ARENT crowded - read
> the CIPs.
I'm speaking to you now, previously I was giving my opinion.
So I shouldn't worry about the school my child attends just because he isn't there yet? Don't you begin looking at colleges before you go? And actually if you read the FCPS material it is clear that schools ARE over-crowded. The school distribution should be FAIR, each school should be afforded the same opportunities. That what this re-districting is all about. We all pay for these schools through our taxes, and with time thru parent involvement. Don't you think that any FCPS you attend should have the same opportunities available to it's students?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:16AM
FCO Parent,
What I've been told about a magnet from people who know more than me about it, is that a magnet by itself would not be enough to draw 500-700 kids. Only speaking for myself, I'd be open to a smaller magnet but would probably still need to draw some kids from surrounding schools. Like I've said in a previous post, I am a Hunters Woods parent and see the downside of having a magnet--increased complexity at the school level, with all the programs, and kids that don't come home to local neighborhoods but get bussed in, limiting my kids' ability to maintain friendships.
Did I understand all of these tradeoffs when I moved here? No. Just like many of you didn't understand the possibility of getting redistricted when you moved in. But FFX county does have to do this from time to time, for all the reasons mentioned. I would prefer isolated school districts comprised of one high school. That doesn't seem to be possible around here,
My brother lives in Pittsburgh, where they have small school districts, and even they are going through redistricting because populations are decreasing, and rather than refurbish high schools, are closing them and sending them to neighboring schools. It's just as contentious there.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2007 10:22AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
What I've been told about a magnet from people who know more than me about it, is that a magnet by itself would not be enough to draw 500-700 kids. Only speaking for myself, I'd be open to a smaller magnet but would probably still need to draw some kids from surrounding schools. Like I've said in a previous post, I am a Hunters Woods parent and see the downside of having a magnet--increased complexity at the school level, with all the programs, and kids that don't come home to local neighborhoods but get bussed in, limiting my kids' ability to maintain friendships.
Did I understand all of these tradeoffs when I moved here? No. Just like many of you didn't understand the possibility of getting redistricted when you moved in. But FFX county does have to do this from time to time, for all the reasons mentioned. I would prefer isolated school districts comprised of one high school. That doesn't seem to be possible around here,
My brother lives in Pittsburgh, where they have small school districts, and even they are going through redistricting because populations are decreasing, and rather than refurbish high schools, are closing them and sending them to neighboring schools. It's just as contentious there.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2007 10:22AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
FCPS Gamepiece
()
Date: November 12, 2007 01:15PM
Future SLHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS Gamepiece Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who exactly are you speaking to? You're not
> even
> > AT at high school yet. You bought your home
> like
> > everyone else to be in a school district. Stop
> > trying to force people into your school to
> solve
> > their problems. Our schools ARENT crowded -
> read
> > the CIPs.
>
>
> I'm speaking to you now, previously I was giving
> my opinion.
>
> So I shouldn't worry about the school my child
> attends just because he isn't there yet? Don't
> you begin looking at colleges before you go? And
> actually if you read the FCPS material it is clear
> that schools ARE over-crowded. The school
> distribution should be FAIR, each school should be
> afforded the same opportunities. That what this
> re-districting is all about. We all pay for these
> schools through our taxes, and with time thru
> parent involvement. Don't you think that any FCPS
> you attend should have the same opportunities
> available to it's students?
Well, if you did your homework before you bought your home (like we all did except apparently you), you would see the test results, enrollment, etc. for your school. We all bought our homes with this concept in mind. You can't force people into your school because now you realize what you bought into. I bought my house 12 years ago. I carefully studied test scores, enrollment and all aspects of what a responsible parent considers when selecting a school district. South Lakes was then what it is now. It's not the responsibility of every other school in Fairfax County to bring up test scores of all low-performing schools. We didn't want our children to be in this district for a reason and we still don't. Why don't you go after your Reston neighbors that go to Langley and determine why they don't go to South Lakes? I've been subjected to 5 boundary discussions in 9 years and 3 redistrictings. We just changed our high school 7 years ago and it's completely unreasonable to expect us to be subjected to ANOTHER boundary change. We've done our time. IS THAT "FAIR"????
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS Gamepiece Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who exactly are you speaking to? You're not
> even
> > AT at high school yet. You bought your home
> like
> > everyone else to be in a school district. Stop
> > trying to force people into your school to
> solve
> > their problems. Our schools ARENT crowded -
> read
> > the CIPs.
>
>
> I'm speaking to you now, previously I was giving
> my opinion.
>
> So I shouldn't worry about the school my child
> attends just because he isn't there yet? Don't
> you begin looking at colleges before you go? And
> actually if you read the FCPS material it is clear
> that schools ARE over-crowded. The school
> distribution should be FAIR, each school should be
> afforded the same opportunities. That what this
> re-districting is all about. We all pay for these
> schools through our taxes, and with time thru
> parent involvement. Don't you think that any FCPS
> you attend should have the same opportunities
> available to it's students?
Well, if you did your homework before you bought your home (like we all did except apparently you), you would see the test results, enrollment, etc. for your school. We all bought our homes with this concept in mind. You can't force people into your school because now you realize what you bought into. I bought my house 12 years ago. I carefully studied test scores, enrollment and all aspects of what a responsible parent considers when selecting a school district. South Lakes was then what it is now. It's not the responsibility of every other school in Fairfax County to bring up test scores of all low-performing schools. We didn't want our children to be in this district for a reason and we still don't. Why don't you go after your Reston neighbors that go to Langley and determine why they don't go to South Lakes? I've been subjected to 5 boundary discussions in 9 years and 3 redistrictings. We just changed our high school 7 years ago and it's completely unreasonable to expect us to be subjected to ANOTHER boundary change. We've done our time. IS THAT "FAIR"????
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 12, 2007 01:44PM
FCPS Gamepiece Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Well, if you did your homework before you bought
> your home (like we all did except apparently you),
> you would see the test results, enrollment, etc.
> for your school. We all bought our homes with this
> concept in mind. You can't force people into your
> school because now you realize what you bought
> into. I bought my house 12 years ago. I
> carefully studied test scores, enrollment and all
> aspects of what a responsible parent considers
> when selecting a school district. South Lakes was
> then what it is now. It's not the responsibility
> of every other school in Fairfax County to bring
> up test scores of all low-performing schools. We
> didn't want our children to be in this district
> for a reason and we still don't. Why don't you go
> after your Reston neighbors that go to Langley and
> determine why they don't go to South Lakes?
You bought your home in the FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL district. Show me on your deed where you "own" your school. You don't "own" it - we all do. This is the public school system - it's socialized government. Did you not think think there was the possibility that since you lived far away from the high school that there was the potential for redistricting? Did you not realize that FFX county does redistrict? Sounds like YOU didn't do YOUR due diligence.
The redistricting is occuring because demographics change over time. The purpose is not to boost test scores at a supposed low performing school. It is about under/overenrollment. There are 3100 kids at Westfield and 1400 at South Lakes. Tell me how that makes fiscal sense. We're driving kids 12 miles to Oakton when there is a high school 3 miles from their door?
I'm sorry you feel like you're a gamepiece. We feel for you. Bring that up tonight.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Well, if you did your homework before you bought
> your home (like we all did except apparently you),
> you would see the test results, enrollment, etc.
> for your school. We all bought our homes with this
> concept in mind. You can't force people into your
> school because now you realize what you bought
> into. I bought my house 12 years ago. I
> carefully studied test scores, enrollment and all
> aspects of what a responsible parent considers
> when selecting a school district. South Lakes was
> then what it is now. It's not the responsibility
> of every other school in Fairfax County to bring
> up test scores of all low-performing schools. We
> didn't want our children to be in this district
> for a reason and we still don't. Why don't you go
> after your Reston neighbors that go to Langley and
> determine why they don't go to South Lakes?
You bought your home in the FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL district. Show me on your deed where you "own" your school. You don't "own" it - we all do. This is the public school system - it's socialized government. Did you not think think there was the possibility that since you lived far away from the high school that there was the potential for redistricting? Did you not realize that FFX county does redistrict? Sounds like YOU didn't do YOUR due diligence.
The redistricting is occuring because demographics change over time. The purpose is not to boost test scores at a supposed low performing school. It is about under/overenrollment. There are 3100 kids at Westfield and 1400 at South Lakes. Tell me how that makes fiscal sense. We're driving kids 12 miles to Oakton when there is a high school 3 miles from their door?
I'm sorry you feel like you're a gamepiece. We feel for you. Bring that up tonight.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
david
()
Date: November 12, 2007 01:46PM
FCPS Gamepiece wrote: "I've been subjected to 5 boundary discussions in 9 years and 3 redistrictings. We just changed our high school 7 years ago and it's completely unreasonable to expect us to be subjected to ANOTHER boundary change. We've done our time. IS THAT "FAIR"????"
I'm curious--just how did these redistrictings really affect you? Had to buy new sweatshirts for the kids? Learn new driving directions? Obviously I'm skeptical, but it would be interesting to hear actual consequences, rather than just rhetorical flourishes.
I'm curious--just how did these redistrictings really affect you? Had to buy new sweatshirts for the kids? Learn new driving directions? Obviously I'm skeptical, but it would be interesting to hear actual consequences, rather than just rhetorical flourishes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 01:48PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think you are correct since the staff says
> Westfield was built, and an addition added, to
> accommodate 3,100 students.
From Herndon PTSA site under boundary FAQs:
"The decision to add classrooms at Westfield was made for several reasons. The
overcrowding at Westfield has been significant for a number of years, requiring the use
of numerous temporary classroom trailers; even with the addition completed, the school
still requires temporary classrooms to accommodate its enrollment. "
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think you are correct since the staff says
> Westfield was built, and an addition added, to
> accommodate 3,100 students.
From Herndon PTSA site under boundary FAQs:
"The decision to add classrooms at Westfield was made for several reasons. The
overcrowding at Westfield has been significant for a number of years, requiring the use
of numerous temporary classroom trailers; even with the addition completed, the school
still requires temporary classrooms to accommodate its enrollment. "
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 12, 2007 02:36PM
Here's a new website started by parents who support redistricting -
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze84nt5/we_support_redistricting/
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2007 02:51PM by Old Timer.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze84nt5/we_support_redistricting/
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2007 02:51PM by Old Timer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 02:54PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a new website started by parents who
> support redistricting -
>
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/vze84nt5/we_support_redi
> stricting/
This supports my earlier post suggesting that the boundaries be voluntary. The people who want to go to SLHS can be happy, those who prefer to go elsewhere can be happy, and we can all get along. 33 down, 400+ to go.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a new website started by parents who
> support redistricting -
>
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/vze84nt5/we_support_redi
> stricting/
This supports my earlier post suggesting that the boundaries be voluntary. The people who want to go to SLHS can be happy, those who prefer to go elsewhere can be happy, and we can all get along. 33 down, 400+ to go.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
clay
()
Date: November 12, 2007 03:17PM
float like butterfly sting like a bee...
the trilla at Chantilla tonight
tighten you britches boys the bell rings at 730pm
undercard: Floris versus Crossfield
main event: Westfield versus SLHS
may the loser pupil place and the winners stay where you are.
Wear you colors... oh wait that is gang talk, rephrase that to support your school.
See you all tonight... who will be the "big Loser"?
SL(Reston)HS?
Wesfield?
Oakton?
Chantilly?
Floris?
Crossfield?
the trilla at Chantilla tonight
tighten you britches boys the bell rings at 730pm
undercard: Floris versus Crossfield
main event: Westfield versus SLHS
may the loser pupil place and the winners stay where you are.
Wear you colors... oh wait that is gang talk, rephrase that to support your school.
See you all tonight... who will be the "big Loser"?
SL(Reston)HS?
Wesfield?
Oakton?
Chantilly?
Floris?
Crossfield?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 12, 2007 03:35PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a new website started by parents who
> support redistricting -
>
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/vze84nt5/we_support_redi
> stricting/
what a waste of time..can you say "copy and paste fcps' site?" there is nothing original here
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a new website started by parents who
> support redistricting -
>
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/vze84nt5/we_support_redi
> stricting/
what a waste of time..can you say "copy and paste fcps' site?" there is nothing original here
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 12, 2007 03:41PM
yeah, they'll fit in well with the IB learnin program and the new art wing. i guess they just don't realize that they can go there no matter where their children are in school now. what morons....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
pyramidparent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 03:44PM
Many, many thanks to a former student for getting into this discussion. You want to know what's going on in any school? Go there and get involved. Otherwise, you are spewing misinformation--again and again. I'd love to hear from more current and former students.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 12, 2007 03:52PM
pyramidparent,
thats brilliant. lets get the westfields, chantilly, herndon, madison, and oakton students all on here to post what a wonderful school they have. then maybe the south lakes parents would see that what they thought they were eating was steak, but it was really dogshit.
thats brilliant. lets get the westfields, chantilly, herndon, madison, and oakton students all on here to post what a wonderful school they have. then maybe the south lakes parents would see that what they thought they were eating was steak, but it was really dogshit.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
ferfux
()
Date: November 12, 2007 04:02PM
Personally I think All children should be home schooled. An internet connection and a virtual classroom with a teacher leading instructions from a site. Screw it and you. no more redistricting just home school all your kids. Now pls. Fuckin stop this thread.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLstudent08
()
Date: November 12, 2007 04:11PM
Hi, I am a current student at South Lakes High School, im graduating this year in fact. I feel really compelled to throw in my opinion about my own school because i feel many parents and concerned county members do not have a good perception or understanding of South Lakes.
Ive been at South Lakes my whole high school career and ive found it to be the best learning enviroment that i could ask for in a school. It really bothers me that our school has been the black sheep for so long, especially when the bad rep is all false.
The best way i can approach this is to just debunk as many of the rumors since im not really familiar with the technical nd economic aspects that also surround the debate over redistricting.
> First, South Lakes is not a so called "Ghetto or Gang School' yes some students have been involved in gang activity but it is such a small number it shouldn't even count, also i have never seen any proment gang active NEVER
>I feel the "ghetto" tag is a false interpretation of diversity, which is one of the most beautiful things about South Lakes, unlike other schools, South Lakes is a very cohesive and non-clanish School. Black, White, Latino, Asian, everyone really does get along, its a beautiful thing to see.
>Im also surprised no one has mentioned the IB art program, its n amazing program which im apart of. I feel no other school could have helped me develop such a since of apriciation for art and making it because our teachers let us explore and really think outside the boxs, unlike other schools where it i just basically paint by numbers. The Art department is something I will viamently defend zealously
>The IB program(which i also am apart of) is ten folds greater than AP to me because rather than just dump loads of more homework like AP does, The IB program really forces us to dig deeper in each subject. In IB English we annotate and anolizee amazing novels for months, In 20th Century Topics we explore every aspect of Modern History and imerse ourselves in not just our history but the world and see how it all comes together.
I hope my personal experience can help discredit some of these un fair rumors and labels.
If any one has any questions about the school and its enviroment please, PLEASe message me. I feel all this mudslinging is just ignorance and can be overcome with the truth, thank you
Ive been at South Lakes my whole high school career and ive found it to be the best learning enviroment that i could ask for in a school. It really bothers me that our school has been the black sheep for so long, especially when the bad rep is all false.
The best way i can approach this is to just debunk as many of the rumors since im not really familiar with the technical nd economic aspects that also surround the debate over redistricting.
> First, South Lakes is not a so called "Ghetto or Gang School' yes some students have been involved in gang activity but it is such a small number it shouldn't even count, also i have never seen any proment gang active NEVER
>I feel the "ghetto" tag is a false interpretation of diversity, which is one of the most beautiful things about South Lakes, unlike other schools, South Lakes is a very cohesive and non-clanish School. Black, White, Latino, Asian, everyone really does get along, its a beautiful thing to see.
>Im also surprised no one has mentioned the IB art program, its n amazing program which im apart of. I feel no other school could have helped me develop such a since of apriciation for art and making it because our teachers let us explore and really think outside the boxs, unlike other schools where it i just basically paint by numbers. The Art department is something I will viamently defend zealously
>The IB program(which i also am apart of) is ten folds greater than AP to me because rather than just dump loads of more homework like AP does, The IB program really forces us to dig deeper in each subject. In IB English we annotate and anolizee amazing novels for months, In 20th Century Topics we explore every aspect of Modern History and imerse ourselves in not just our history but the world and see how it all comes together.
I hope my personal experience can help discredit some of these un fair rumors and labels.
If any one has any questions about the school and its enviroment please, PLEASe message me. I feel all this mudslinging is just ignorance and can be overcome with the truth, thank you
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 12, 2007 05:25PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > The same thing can be said for
> > > the music program. I know that in the all
> > > district bands, not many kids from South
> Lakes
> > > make districts. That has nothing to do with
> > the
> > > size of the program because that is an
> > individual
> > > audition. They will now be competing for
> > chairs
> > > in their own program with kids from
> Westfield,
> > > Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly
> send
> > > many kids to districts and will likely take
> > those
> > > top spots.
> >
> > Please don't confuse size with talent. You may
> > want to check your numbers on All-District Band.
>
> > SL has sent many kids to All-District Band,
> most
> > in great chair positions. I recall that we
> > actually sent more than Chantilly two or three
> > years ago. I will ask the band director for
> the
> > stats and post them here this week. If I am to
> > understand you correctly, are you saying that
> > percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly
> would
> > have beaten out, for example, Kyle
> > Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist
> at
> > the Juilliard School, for first chair
> percussion?
> > Just because we are smaller does not mean we
> don't
> > have talented kids. We just don't have as many
> of
> > them.
> >
> > Are you also saying that the odds are just as
> good
> > if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids
> > audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm
> pretty
> > sure that the odds are on the larger group.
>
>
> I do apologize if South Lakes has, in fact, sent
> more than the other schools on a percentage basis,
> though I don't think the stats will bear that out.
> A Julliard acceptance is quite an accomplishment,
> but one student does not make a program. Has the
> South Lakes band program ever recieved Honor Band
> status? I checked the VBODA website and it does
> not appear that it has, going back to 1981 anyway.
> I know that there are smaller bands that do
> recieve superiro ratings, so why would I want my
> children, should they participate in band, to be
> moved to a school with a program less optimal than
> that of the high school they are currently slated
> to attend? I have also heard anecdotally from
> someone wihtin the SL community that the band
> director at South Lakes is "salivating" over the
> possibility of getting some Oakton, Chantilly or
> Westfield kids.
I don't see what the problem is. If your kids are as great and talented as you say they are, would that not improve the band to your standards? Why don't we put them to the test?
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > The same thing can be said for
> > > the music program. I know that in the all
> > > district bands, not many kids from South
> Lakes
> > > make districts. That has nothing to do with
> > the
> > > size of the program because that is an
> > individual
> > > audition. They will now be competing for
> > chairs
> > > in their own program with kids from
> Westfield,
> > > Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly
> send
> > > many kids to districts and will likely take
> > those
> > > top spots.
> >
> > Please don't confuse size with talent. You may
> > want to check your numbers on All-District Band.
>
> > SL has sent many kids to All-District Band,
> most
> > in great chair positions. I recall that we
> > actually sent more than Chantilly two or three
> > years ago. I will ask the band director for
> the
> > stats and post them here this week. If I am to
> > understand you correctly, are you saying that
> > percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly
> would
> > have beaten out, for example, Kyle
> > Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist
> at
> > the Juilliard School, for first chair
> percussion?
> > Just because we are smaller does not mean we
> don't
> > have talented kids. We just don't have as many
> of
> > them.
> >
> > Are you also saying that the odds are just as
> good
> > if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids
> > audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm
> pretty
> > sure that the odds are on the larger group.
>
>
> I do apologize if South Lakes has, in fact, sent
> more than the other schools on a percentage basis,
> though I don't think the stats will bear that out.
> A Julliard acceptance is quite an accomplishment,
> but one student does not make a program. Has the
> South Lakes band program ever recieved Honor Band
> status? I checked the VBODA website and it does
> not appear that it has, going back to 1981 anyway.
> I know that there are smaller bands that do
> recieve superiro ratings, so why would I want my
> children, should they participate in band, to be
> moved to a school with a program less optimal than
> that of the high school they are currently slated
> to attend? I have also heard anecdotally from
> someone wihtin the SL community that the band
> director at South Lakes is "salivating" over the
> possibility of getting some Oakton, Chantilly or
> Westfield kids.
I don't see what the problem is. If your kids are as great and talented as you say they are, would that not improve the band to your standards? Why don't we put them to the test?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 12, 2007 05:40PM
Dear SLstudent08,
Thank you for posting on this board. I want to prepare you for the onslaught of negative comments you are going to get from certain posters who seem duty bound to point out the grammatical and spelling flaws of any post by a SL student. Some don't understand the idiosyncrasies of posting in the ethernet, vs. writing a paper. Don't let them bother you and just ignore them.
Thank you for posting on this board. I want to prepare you for the onslaught of negative comments you are going to get from certain posters who seem duty bound to point out the grammatical and spelling flaws of any post by a SL student. Some don't understand the idiosyncrasies of posting in the ethernet, vs. writing a paper. Don't let them bother you and just ignore them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Future SLHS Parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 08:19PM
FCPS Gamepiece Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Future SLHS Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FCPS Gamepiece Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Who exactly are you speaking to? You're not
> > even
> > > AT at high school yet. You bought your home
> > like
> > > everyone else to be in a school district.
> Stop
> > > trying to force people into your school to
> > solve
> > > their problems. Our schools ARENT crowded -
> > read
> > > the CIPs.
> >
> >
> > I'm speaking to you now, previously I was
> giving
> > my opinion.
> >
> > So I shouldn't worry about the school my child
> > attends just because he isn't there yet? Don't
> > you begin looking at colleges before you go?
> And
> > actually if you read the FCPS material it is
> clear
> > that schools ARE over-crowded. The school
> > distribution should be FAIR, each school should
> be
> > afforded the same opportunities. That what
> this
> > re-districting is all about. We all pay for
> these
> > schools through our taxes, and with time thru
> > parent involvement. Don't you think that any
> FCPS
> > you attend should have the same opportunities
> > available to it's students?
>
>
> Well, if you did your homework before you bought
> your home (like we all did except apparently you),
> you would see the test results, enrollment, etc.
> for your school. We all bought our homes with this
> concept in mind. You can't force people into your
> school because now you realize what you bought
> into. I bought my house 12 years ago. I
> carefully studied test scores, enrollment and all
> aspects of what a responsible parent considers
> when selecting a school district. South Lakes was
> then what it is now. It's not the responsibility
> of every other school in Fairfax County to bring
> up test scores of all low-performing schools. We
> didn't want our children to be in this district
> for a reason and we still don't. Why don't you go
> after your Reston neighbors that go to Langley and
> determine why they don't go to South Lakes? I've
> been subjected to 5 boundary discussions in 9
> years and 3 redistrictings. We just changed our
> high school 7 years ago and it's completely
> unreasonable to expect us to be subjected to
> ANOTHER boundary change. We've done our time. IS
> THAT "FAIR"????
First off, where the hell do you get off questions my parenting skills. For you information when we moved into our neighborhood we did not have children, and we had been informed by the doctor that we could not have children. Therefore, the school district was not an issue whn purchasing our house. So now fast forward some years and we have been blessed by children. So hold me at fault if you will, but now that I have a chance to speak my mind about re-districting I will. I am being the responsible parent in trying to improve SLHS. I am not as concerned with test scores as I want my children to have the opportunities at SLHS that are afforded to attendies of other FFX highschools in our area.
In fact on your point about Langley, I agree those folks with a Reston or Herndon address should not be attending Langley. I would be in favor of those areas moving to SLHS or Herndon depending on their address (Reston or Herndon).
In the future you should keep your comments to the school re-districting instead of trying to launch personal attacks against me when you know nothing about me.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Future SLHS Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FCPS Gamepiece Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Who exactly are you speaking to? You're not
> > even
> > > AT at high school yet. You bought your home
> > like
> > > everyone else to be in a school district.
> Stop
> > > trying to force people into your school to
> > solve
> > > their problems. Our schools ARENT crowded -
> > read
> > > the CIPs.
> >
> >
> > I'm speaking to you now, previously I was
> giving
> > my opinion.
> >
> > So I shouldn't worry about the school my child
> > attends just because he isn't there yet? Don't
> > you begin looking at colleges before you go?
> And
> > actually if you read the FCPS material it is
> clear
> > that schools ARE over-crowded. The school
> > distribution should be FAIR, each school should
> be
> > afforded the same opportunities. That what
> this
> > re-districting is all about. We all pay for
> these
> > schools through our taxes, and with time thru
> > parent involvement. Don't you think that any
> FCPS
> > you attend should have the same opportunities
> > available to it's students?
>
>
> Well, if you did your homework before you bought
> your home (like we all did except apparently you),
> you would see the test results, enrollment, etc.
> for your school. We all bought our homes with this
> concept in mind. You can't force people into your
> school because now you realize what you bought
> into. I bought my house 12 years ago. I
> carefully studied test scores, enrollment and all
> aspects of what a responsible parent considers
> when selecting a school district. South Lakes was
> then what it is now. It's not the responsibility
> of every other school in Fairfax County to bring
> up test scores of all low-performing schools. We
> didn't want our children to be in this district
> for a reason and we still don't. Why don't you go
> after your Reston neighbors that go to Langley and
> determine why they don't go to South Lakes? I've
> been subjected to 5 boundary discussions in 9
> years and 3 redistrictings. We just changed our
> high school 7 years ago and it's completely
> unreasonable to expect us to be subjected to
> ANOTHER boundary change. We've done our time. IS
> THAT "FAIR"????
First off, where the hell do you get off questions my parenting skills. For you information when we moved into our neighborhood we did not have children, and we had been informed by the doctor that we could not have children. Therefore, the school district was not an issue whn purchasing our house. So now fast forward some years and we have been blessed by children. So hold me at fault if you will, but now that I have a chance to speak my mind about re-districting I will. I am being the responsible parent in trying to improve SLHS. I am not as concerned with test scores as I want my children to have the opportunities at SLHS that are afforded to attendies of other FFX highschools in our area.
In fact on your point about Langley, I agree those folks with a Reston or Herndon address should not be attending Langley. I would be in favor of those areas moving to SLHS or Herndon depending on their address (Reston or Herndon).
In the future you should keep your comments to the school re-districting instead of trying to launch personal attacks against me when you know nothing about me.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 09:56PM
Just back from the Chantilly meeting. If Fairfax County schools is among the best there is to offer, I hate to see the other guys! They did the presenation on the web site, then did the Q&A. Boy was that bad. Why no Langley? "see the web site...they're not over capacity (since they're building an addition)". "No decisions have been made". They asked the crowd who wanted the status quo...everybody except the contingent of South Lakes parents stood and applauded.
Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I went to Stu afterwards and described his performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.
Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I went to Stu afterwards and described his performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:04PM
>>>they want a community school<<<
but they want students from outside the community to go there? Can't have it both ways.
but they want students from outside the community to go there? Can't have it both ways.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:05PM
SLVerity - I think you are right - it is simply uncontestable - be it band, or sports, or theater, that on a comparative basis, it is simply much more difficult for schools with a population half that of neighboring schools to have programs as competitive as the other schools. Most sports (I will talk to what I know) profit immensely from having great numbers come out, particularly because there are so many high school kids that don't show star potential in 9th grade that once they have the opportunity to work daily in a structured environment improve greatly. A close friend and coach back home with a state record of over 30 championships has always informed me it really is simply about numbers, and more numbers. I would be surprised if the same phenomena doesn't come into play with music and theater. And frankly it is a factor in redistricting - not that sports, etc, should be paramount - but generally speaking it is nice to field competitive teams and full bands, and it adds to the school's sense of spirit and progress. I think being blunt and open about that makes sense.
By the way, the one sport that typically can profit from just having one or two superstars is basketball - but even there you need depth because the zone defenses and ability to slow down the game at the high school level can equalize a few superior talents. South Lakes, like other high schools with great basketball
talent, has been hurt by the immense popularity and corrupting forces of AAU basketball - which has lessened the importance of high school ball - unfortunate for South Lakes (they lost an All American player to one of the AAU driven prep aka basketball factory high schools) - which benefits in terms of school spirit from having a great team. In other words, the Wendell Byrds of the world who oozed credibility with kids no longer toil at the local high school - they instead now curry favor with the shoe company du jour to run AAU teams, the ultimate 6 games in two days learn how not to play defense or take care of the ball experience. This is a loss. I mention this AAU stuff because amidst all of the rancor about school redistricting the gloss that has been rubbed off of high school ball (and it is happening to the women, too) is not the fault of the schools or the parents or anyone in the community - and yet it takes away from an experience - especially in the cold of winter - that has historically bound communities closer. (Witness Herndon's run the last few years, which we won't see again for a while). So it is something we can all agree on without much conflict.
By the way, the one sport that typically can profit from just having one or two superstars is basketball - but even there you need depth because the zone defenses and ability to slow down the game at the high school level can equalize a few superior talents. South Lakes, like other high schools with great basketball
talent, has been hurt by the immense popularity and corrupting forces of AAU basketball - which has lessened the importance of high school ball - unfortunate for South Lakes (they lost an All American player to one of the AAU driven prep aka basketball factory high schools) - which benefits in terms of school spirit from having a great team. In other words, the Wendell Byrds of the world who oozed credibility with kids no longer toil at the local high school - they instead now curry favor with the shoe company du jour to run AAU teams, the ultimate 6 games in two days learn how not to play defense or take care of the ball experience. This is a loss. I mention this AAU stuff because amidst all of the rancor about school redistricting the gloss that has been rubbed off of high school ball (and it is happening to the women, too) is not the fault of the schools or the parents or anyone in the community - and yet it takes away from an experience - especially in the cold of winter - that has historically bound communities closer. (Witness Herndon's run the last few years, which we won't see again for a while). So it is something we can all agree on without much conflict.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:08PM
*repost of note that was last post of previous page*
Just back from the Chantilly meeting. If Fairfax County schools is among the best there is to offer, I hate to see the other guys! They did the presenation on the web site, then did the Q&A. Boy was that bad. Why no Langley? "see the web site...they're not over capacity (since they're building an addition)". "No decisions have been made". They asked the crowd who wanted the status quo...everybody except the contingent of South Lakes parents stood and applauded.
Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I went to Stu afterwards and described his performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.
Just back from the Chantilly meeting. If Fairfax County schools is among the best there is to offer, I hate to see the other guys! They did the presenation on the web site, then did the Q&A. Boy was that bad. Why no Langley? "see the web site...they're not over capacity (since they're building an addition)". "No decisions have been made". They asked the crowd who wanted the status quo...everybody except the contingent of South Lakes parents stood and applauded.
Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I went to Stu afterwards and described his performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:10PM
>>>They asked the crowd who wanted the status quo<<<
Why did they ask that question? Are they so naive as to think they'd get anything over than the response that they got? Does that mean we get to keep the status quo, since they bothered to ask?
Why can't our school board take responsibility for the decisions that made?
Oakton parent is so right, what a bunch of cowards. Who does Stu Gibson think he works for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear not. It would appear he answers to no one.
If no decisions have been made, then start with discussing alternatives to redrawing the boundaries. Then move on to including Langley and Madison in the mix.
Why did they ask that question? Are they so naive as to think they'd get anything over than the response that they got? Does that mean we get to keep the status quo, since they bothered to ask?
Why can't our school board take responsibility for the decisions that made?
Oakton parent is so right, what a bunch of cowards. Who does Stu Gibson think he works for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear not. It would appear he answers to no one.
If no decisions have been made, then start with discussing alternatives to redrawing the boundaries. Then move on to including Langley and Madison in the mix.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:14PM
Clarification..."They asked the crowd" should have read "A questioner from the audience asked the crowd [who wanted the status quo]"
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:15PM
Sports, theater, and band are simply not compelling reasons for changing anything with schools. If kids want those things, they can either go to a school where sports are most important, or play in the area sports. Every community has baseball and football teams. Every community has theatre. Every school has a band. None of things are sufficient reasons for redistricting.
Perhaps South Lakes could become the theater and music magnet school. Those who care most about those things could go to South Lakes. Or it could be the football and basketball magnet, like other schools in Virginia that concentrate on sports. Personally, I think schools should be about academics and an academic magnet would be preferable. But let the people decide, not Stu Gibson.
Perhaps South Lakes could become the theater and music magnet school. Those who care most about those things could go to South Lakes. Or it could be the football and basketball magnet, like other schools in Virginia that concentrate on sports. Personally, I think schools should be about academics and an academic magnet would be preferable. But let the people decide, not Stu Gibson.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:16PM
>>>A questioner from the audience asked the crowd [who wanted the status quo]"<<<
Oh, yes, of course, because we all know that the staff and school board doesn't care what the people want.
Oh, yes, of course, because we all know that the staff and school board doesn't care what the people want.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:20PM
>>>The purpose is not to boost test scores at a supposed low performing school. It is about under/overenrollment<<<
If test scores at South Lakes were decent, there wouldn't be an under enrollment problem. Fix South Lakes problems, BEFORE you force others into the school to mask those problems. Educate the kids! Don't paste over their scores and them!
If test scores at South Lakes were decent, there wouldn't be an under enrollment problem. Fix South Lakes problems, BEFORE you force others into the school to mask those problems. Educate the kids! Don't paste over their scores and them!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:23PM
I wasn't at the meeting but I hear that the school board members refused to answer any questions directed toward them? Why the hell not? Who do they work for? They need to take some responsibility for the mess they've made.
I also heard that there was quite a police presence. That tells me that staff and school board knew how contentious this issue would be, yet they refuse to retreat, not an inch. They won't consider ANYTHING that the people want. Disgusting.
I also heard that there was quite a police presence. That tells me that staff and school board knew how contentious this issue would be, yet they refuse to retreat, not an inch. They won't consider ANYTHING that the people want. Disgusting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:28PM
Question for South Lakes fans...if you look at the presentation on the fcps.edu site, that was shown at the meeting, the one school that they have not been able to predict enrollment for with pretty good accuracy (<5%) four years ahead is South Lakes. Four years ago the planners thought it would be at 1700+ now, but it's only 1400+. Don't say its because people's kids grew up and left that school, that was included in the plan, and all the other schools didn't show this problem. Each year of the last several, the estimate was revised downward by close to 100 students. Is that due to unexpected changes in housing stock (fewer people for some reason), or by unexpected changes in school age population (people moving or such), or by low "yield" in terms of school age kids showing up at South Lakes?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
david
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:38PM
Neen wrote: "Who does Stu Gibson think he works for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear not. It would appear he answers to no one. "
On the contrary, he works for the public in an office that he won in a open and fair election. Remember that election just 6 days ago?
You had your shot--you lost. Apparently, your argument that the taxpayers should pay to run a half-empty SLHS, and bus hundreds of students past it didn't catch on with the average voter.
You failed because your arguments amount to: me, me, me, I'm special. A mob of such losers doesn't make the argument any more compelling.
I hope somebody taped the show tonight and posts it on YouTube, so everyone can see the overgrown babies whine.
On the contrary, he works for the public in an office that he won in a open and fair election. Remember that election just 6 days ago?
You had your shot--you lost. Apparently, your argument that the taxpayers should pay to run a half-empty SLHS, and bus hundreds of students past it didn't catch on with the average voter.
You failed because your arguments amount to: me, me, me, I'm special. A mob of such losers doesn't make the argument any more compelling.
I hope somebody taped the show tonight and posts it on YouTube, so everyone can see the overgrown babies whine.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:42PM
David, I've got no dog in this hunt.
Are you saying that since Stu won the election, the public needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do whatever he wants?
You know what's funny? Stu's middle name is David and you sound JUST like him.
Probably just a coincidence. ;)
Are you saying that since Stu won the election, the public needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do whatever he wants?
You know what's funny? Stu's middle name is David and you sound JUST like him.
Probably just a coincidence. ;)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:44PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The same thing can be said for
> > > > the music program. I know that in the all
> > > > district bands, not many kids from South
> > Lakes
> > > > make districts. That has nothing to do
> with
> > > the
> > > > size of the program because that is an
> > > individual
> > > > audition. They will now be competing for
> > > chairs
> > > > in their own program with kids from
> > Westfield,
> > > > Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly
> > send
> > > > many kids to districts and will likely take
> > > those
> > > > top spots.
> > >
> > > Please don't confuse size with talent. You
> may
> > > want to check your numbers on All-District
> Band.
> >
> > > SL has sent many kids to All-District Band,
> > most
> > > in great chair positions. I recall that we
> > > actually sent more than Chantilly two or
> three
> > > years ago. I will ask the band director for
> > the
> > > stats and post them here this week. If I am
> to
> > > understand you correctly, are you saying that
> > > percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly
> > would
> > > have beaten out, for example, Kyle
> > > Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist
> > at
> > > the Juilliard School, for first chair
> > percussion?
> > > Just because we are smaller does not mean we
> > don't
> > > have talented kids. We just don't have as
> many
> > of
> > > them.
> > >
> > > Are you also saying that the odds are just as
> > good
> > > if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids
> > > audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm
> > pretty
> > > sure that the odds are on the larger group.
> >
> >
> > I do apologize if South Lakes has, in fact,
> sent
> > more than the other schools on a percentage
> basis,
> > though I don't think the stats will bear that
> out.
> > A Julliard acceptance is quite an
> accomplishment,
> > but one student does not make a program. Has
> the
> > South Lakes band program ever recieved Honor
> Band
> > status? I checked the VBODA website and it
> does
> > not appear that it has, going back to 1981
> anyway.
> > I know that there are smaller bands that do
> > recieve superiro ratings, so why would I want
> my
> > children, should they participate in band, to
> be
> > moved to a school with a program less optimal
> than
> > that of the high school they are currently
> slated
> > to attend? I have also heard anecdotally from
> > someone wihtin the SL community that the band
> > director at South Lakes is "salivating" over
> the
> > possibility of getting some Oakton, Chantilly
> or
> > Westfield kids.
>
> I don't see what the problem is. If your kids are
> as great and talented as you say they are, would
> that not improve the band to your standards? Why
> don't we put them to the test?
Why should we have to? Because one school is in need of an oboe/bassoon/bass trombone, etc. player, we have to ship one over from another school, leaving them with none?
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The same thing can be said for
> > > > the music program. I know that in the all
> > > > district bands, not many kids from South
> > Lakes
> > > > make districts. That has nothing to do
> with
> > > the
> > > > size of the program because that is an
> > > individual
> > > > audition. They will now be competing for
> > > chairs
> > > > in their own program with kids from
> > Westfield,
> > > > Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly
> > send
> > > > many kids to districts and will likely take
> > > those
> > > > top spots.
> > >
> > > Please don't confuse size with talent. You
> may
> > > want to check your numbers on All-District
> Band.
> >
> > > SL has sent many kids to All-District Band,
> > most
> > > in great chair positions. I recall that we
> > > actually sent more than Chantilly two or
> three
> > > years ago. I will ask the band director for
> > the
> > > stats and post them here this week. If I am
> to
> > > understand you correctly, are you saying that
> > > percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly
> > would
> > > have beaten out, for example, Kyle
> > > Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist
> > at
> > > the Juilliard School, for first chair
> > percussion?
> > > Just because we are smaller does not mean we
> > don't
> > > have talented kids. We just don't have as
> many
> > of
> > > them.
> > >
> > > Are you also saying that the odds are just as
> > good
> > > if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids
> > > audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm
> > pretty
> > > sure that the odds are on the larger group.
> >
> >
> > I do apologize if South Lakes has, in fact,
> sent
> > more than the other schools on a percentage
> basis,
> > though I don't think the stats will bear that
> out.
> > A Julliard acceptance is quite an
> accomplishment,
> > but one student does not make a program. Has
> the
> > South Lakes band program ever recieved Honor
> Band
> > status? I checked the VBODA website and it
> does
> > not appear that it has, going back to 1981
> anyway.
> > I know that there are smaller bands that do
> > recieve superiro ratings, so why would I want
> my
> > children, should they participate in band, to
> be
> > moved to a school with a program less optimal
> than
> > that of the high school they are currently
> slated
> > to attend? I have also heard anecdotally from
> > someone wihtin the SL community that the band
> > director at South Lakes is "salivating" over
> the
> > possibility of getting some Oakton, Chantilly
> or
> > Westfield kids.
>
> I don't see what the problem is. If your kids are
> as great and talented as you say they are, would
> that not improve the band to your standards? Why
> don't we put them to the test?
Why should we have to? Because one school is in need of an oboe/bassoon/bass trombone, etc. player, we have to ship one over from another school, leaving them with none?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:47PM
Aww come on David, you can do better than that...Stu won due to inertia, and because the people who are unhappy in general couldn't vote for him because they were not in his district. Fox Mill voted against him by 2:1, but the South Lakes and Madison crowd has nothing to complain about so they voted him back in. The knock on Stu isn't that he's not politically savvy, its that he's a clueless administrator who pushes pet programs while schools in his district (Dogwood, McNair) embarrass the rest of the district.
South Lakes being undercapacity has everything to do with how South Lakes was managed in years gone by, causing net loss of students in its district vs. other districts in ways that demographics don't fully explain. Your comment shows you don't understand the concerns of people who don't want to see their kids lives disrupted so that we can move some empty classrooms from South Lakes to Westfield...where's the sense in doing that? There will be the same number of students, the same number of classes, we won't improve overall capacity utilization.
South Lakes being undercapacity has everything to do with how South Lakes was managed in years gone by, causing net loss of students in its district vs. other districts in ways that demographics don't fully explain. Your comment shows you don't understand the concerns of people who don't want to see their kids lives disrupted so that we can move some empty classrooms from South Lakes to Westfield...where's the sense in doing that? There will be the same number of students, the same number of classes, we won't improve overall capacity utilization.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:48PM
Oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just back from the Chantilly meeting. If Fairfax
> County schools is among the best there is to
> offer, I hate to see the other guys! They did the
> presenation on the web site, then did the Q&A.
> Boy was that bad. Why no Langley? "see the web
> site...they're not over capacity (since they're
> building an addition)". "No decisions have been
> made". They asked the crowd who wanted the status
> quo...everybody except the contingent of South
> Lakes parents stood and applauded.
> Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I
> went to Stu afterwards and described his
> performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.
Ha! Not only did Stu not say anything, when he was asked a direct question and handed the microphone by the questioner, he put the mic down and refused to even turn around to the crowd. He didn't answer that particular question (Would the school board support a moratorium on redistricting should the outcome of these meetings prove that the majority of the citizens feel that is what is best?) because he was AFRAID to do it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just back from the Chantilly meeting. If Fairfax
> County schools is among the best there is to
> offer, I hate to see the other guys! They did the
> presenation on the web site, then did the Q&A.
> Boy was that bad. Why no Langley? "see the web
> site...they're not over capacity (since they're
> building an addition)". "No decisions have been
> made". They asked the crowd who wanted the status
> quo...everybody except the contingent of South
> Lakes parents stood and applauded.
> Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I
> went to Stu afterwards and described his
> performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.
Ha! Not only did Stu not say anything, when he was asked a direct question and handed the microphone by the questioner, he put the mic down and refused to even turn around to the crowd. He didn't answer that particular question (Would the school board support a moratorium on redistricting should the outcome of these meetings prove that the majority of the citizens feel that is what is best?) because he was AFRAID to do it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
david
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:56PM
Neen wrote: "Are you saying that since Stu won the election, the public needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do whatever he wants?"
Here's some facts to counter your drivel rhetoric:
1) Gibson is one of 12 elected members of the School Board--hardly the dictator of western Fairfax.
2) Of the slate of 5 candidates endorsed by stoprd.org, only one was elected, and that by the slimmest margin.
3) County regulation mandates the public input sessions, so no one "needs to sit down, shut up". It's an opportunity to offer constructive input, not call people cowards.
Here's some facts to counter your drivel rhetoric:
1) Gibson is one of 12 elected members of the School Board--hardly the dictator of western Fairfax.
2) Of the slate of 5 candidates endorsed by stoprd.org, only one was elected, and that by the slimmest margin.
3) County regulation mandates the public input sessions, so no one "needs to sit down, shut up". It's an opportunity to offer constructive input, not call people cowards.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 12, 2007 10:57PM
david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen wrote: "Who does Stu Gibson think he works
> for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear
> not. It would appear he answers to no one. "
>
> On the contrary, he works for the public in an
> office that he won in a open and fair election.
> Remember that election just 6 days ago?
>
> You had your shot--you lost. Apparently, your
> argument that the taxpayers should pay to run a
> half-empty SLHS, and bus hundreds of students past
> it didn't catch on with the average voter.
>
> You failed because your arguments amount to: me,
> me, me, I'm special. A mob of such losers doesn't
> make the argument any more compelling.
>
> I hope somebody taped the show tonight and posts
> it on YouTube, so everyone can see the overgrown
> babies whine.
Actually, nobody was whining in my small group. There were several parents there from South Lakes who liked, approved of and added to the discussion of bringning a magnet school to South Lakes. THey thought a magnet or acadamy school would bring the school the "educational resources" it needs. which is what these particular SL parents said they want. They didn't care about sports teams, just a fair distribution of resources and they thought a magnet school would get them that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen wrote: "Who does Stu Gibson think he works
> for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear
> not. It would appear he answers to no one. "
>
> On the contrary, he works for the public in an
> office that he won in a open and fair election.
> Remember that election just 6 days ago?
>
> You had your shot--you lost. Apparently, your
> argument that the taxpayers should pay to run a
> half-empty SLHS, and bus hundreds of students past
> it didn't catch on with the average voter.
>
> You failed because your arguments amount to: me,
> me, me, I'm special. A mob of such losers doesn't
> make the argument any more compelling.
>
> I hope somebody taped the show tonight and posts
> it on YouTube, so everyone can see the overgrown
> babies whine.
Actually, nobody was whining in my small group. There were several parents there from South Lakes who liked, approved of and added to the discussion of bringning a magnet school to South Lakes. THey thought a magnet or acadamy school would bring the school the "educational resources" it needs. which is what these particular SL parents said they want. They didn't care about sports teams, just a fair distribution of resources and they thought a magnet school would get them that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:02PM
david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen wrote: "Are you saying that since Stu won the
> election, the public needs to sit down, shut up,
> and let him do whatever he wants?"
>
> Here's some facts to counter your drivel
> rhetoric:
> 1) Gibson is one of 12 elected members of the
> School Board--hardly the dictator of western
> Fairfax.
>
> 2) Of the slate of 5 candidates endorsed by
> stoprd.org, only one was elected, and that by the
> slimmest margin.
>
> 3) County regulation mandates the public input
> sessions, so no one "needs to sit down, shut up".
> It's an opportunity to offer constructive input,
> not call people cowards.
He was a coward tonight. If you cannot stand up for what you believe in, then what are you? If he believes so strongly in his rationale for not including Langley or for not posing a moratorium on the whole process, then why can't he say that? People were angry, but I guarantee they would have listened to him.
But does the regulation mandate that the school board take ANY of the community input under consideration? I could have sworn I heard someone say tonight that the board can actually do whatever it wants to do regardless of the hours spent at these meetings. THat is why they moved 600 kids from Hayfield to South County against community input at these meetings, and then turned around and had to move 500 of them back the next year. Makes me a bit cynical about the process.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen wrote: "Are you saying that since Stu won the
> election, the public needs to sit down, shut up,
> and let him do whatever he wants?"
>
> Here's some facts to counter your drivel
> rhetoric:
> 1) Gibson is one of 12 elected members of the
> School Board--hardly the dictator of western
> Fairfax.
>
> 2) Of the slate of 5 candidates endorsed by
> stoprd.org, only one was elected, and that by the
> slimmest margin.
>
> 3) County regulation mandates the public input
> sessions, so no one "needs to sit down, shut up".
> It's an opportunity to offer constructive input,
> not call people cowards.
He was a coward tonight. If you cannot stand up for what you believe in, then what are you? If he believes so strongly in his rationale for not including Langley or for not posing a moratorium on the whole process, then why can't he say that? People were angry, but I guarantee they would have listened to him.
But does the regulation mandate that the school board take ANY of the community input under consideration? I could have sworn I heard someone say tonight that the board can actually do whatever it wants to do regardless of the hours spent at these meetings. THat is why they moved 600 kids from Hayfield to South County against community input at these meetings, and then turned around and had to move 500 of them back the next year. Makes me a bit cynical about the process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:04PM
What will happen if the majority of the people at these meetings do not support any boundary change but support a magnet/academy program? What if people simply refuse to pit neighborhood against neighborhood? Friend against friend?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:11PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will happen if the majority of the people at
> these meetings do not support any boundary change
> but support a magnet/academy program? What if
> people simply refuse to pit neighborhood against
> neighborhood? Friend against friend?
I was pleasantly surprised at the polite and encouraging atmosphere in the particular small group I was in. We had people there from every single school affected. I did hear of some groups where people were throwing whole neighborhoods under the bus. I was glad my group had people who were actively listening and particpating responsibly. Like I said, even the South Lakes people were happy with the thought of a magnet school and they added their tallies to that idea on the sheet.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will happen if the majority of the people at
> these meetings do not support any boundary change
> but support a magnet/academy program? What if
> people simply refuse to pit neighborhood against
> neighborhood? Friend against friend?
I was pleasantly surprised at the polite and encouraging atmosphere in the particular small group I was in. We had people there from every single school affected. I did hear of some groups where people were throwing whole neighborhoods under the bus. I was glad my group had people who were actively listening and particpating responsibly. Like I said, even the South Lakes people were happy with the thought of a magnet school and they added their tallies to that idea on the sheet.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:13PM
Yes, as far as I know, the school board can do whatever they want. Each school board member decides what is best in his district for his schools. The other 12 will agree to whatever Stu wants because no school board member wants someone else messing around with the schools in their district. But it would be very difficult if the community simply refused to come up with any redistricting plan, refused to throw their neighbors under the bus, and was united in wanting to go back to the drawing boards and explore all the options, including Langley, and including magnets.
Many parents WANTED to leave Hayfield and go to South County, especially higher income parents. They got what they wanted too. Now Hayfield is in worse shape than ever and South County is way over enrolled.
Many parents WANTED to leave Hayfield and go to South County, especially higher income parents. They got what they wanted too. Now Hayfield is in worse shape than ever and South County is way over enrolled.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:14PM
Stu, er, I mean, David, please behave here just as you did at tonight's meeting. Sit down, and shut up.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
david
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:23PM
Neen wrote: "David, please behave here just as you did at tonight's meeting. Sit down, and shut up."
Neen, when I want your advice, I'll beat it out of you. So I'm pissing you off? Being called out for your childish demagoguing hurts? Too bad, it's not going to stop.
Neen, when I want your advice, I'll beat it out of you. So I'm pissing you off? Being called out for your childish demagoguing hurts? Too bad, it's not going to stop.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Troll Police
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:26PM
A troll has come our from under the bridge. Said troll didn't even go the the meeting, but has said more about it than anyone else. Interesting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:30PM
Clarifying the school board electiono results...Stu got less than 14,000 votes this go around, vs. almost 16,000 in 2003, with a much larger percentage of the vote (39%) going to the competition this time. Kathy Smith did get more votes than she did in 2003, about 12,000 vs. about 10,000, but almost as many people voted against her this time (9000+) as elected her in 2003, so she's not carrying the broadest of mandates.
Of the three at large stoprd candidates, they all finished with 14% of the vote to the nearest percentage, trailing only the top two candidates who had 19% and 18%. So, while Raney may have won by the slimmest of margins, with 69,309 (or almost five times as many as Stu...), Constantino at 66,275 and Braunlich at 65,514 clearly drew broad county support as well.
That's probably why no more schools were included in the boundary study..another few percent of the vote and all three could have claimed at large seats...if Madison had been in the survey, Stu might be out of here.
Of the three at large stoprd candidates, they all finished with 14% of the vote to the nearest percentage, trailing only the top two candidates who had 19% and 18%. So, while Raney may have won by the slimmest of margins, with 69,309 (or almost five times as many as Stu...), Constantino at 66,275 and Braunlich at 65,514 clearly drew broad county support as well.
That's probably why no more schools were included in the boundary study..another few percent of the vote and all three could have claimed at large seats...if Madison had been in the survey, Stu might be out of here.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:37PM
Stu/David, You aren't pissing me off in the least, I'm having fun. Apparently someone rattled your caged tonight. You sound REALLY angry. Hahahaha........take a deep breath. No one likes you, but why would that bother you? It never has before.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:37PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David, I've got no dog in this hunt.
>
>
Then WHY do you continue to dominate the board? Every other post is yours and you didn't go to the meetings and have no children affedted by the boundary study. You live in Vienna, correct?
You even answer your own questions. And when you accuse everyone about being "STU" it seems like you're the one with something to hide.
You obviously have some some political argument with Stu Gibson, Gerald Connolly, Cathy Hudgins and all other democrats. What does this have to do with redistricting? Oh, I know redistricting is some kind of democratic plot against taxpayers in the county.
Please give us a break and find something else to get involved in, maybe sudoku. Or illegal immigration - there looks to be another forum on that topic, you could have a blast on that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> David, I've got no dog in this hunt.
>
>
Then WHY do you continue to dominate the board? Every other post is yours and you didn't go to the meetings and have no children affedted by the boundary study. You live in Vienna, correct?
You even answer your own questions. And when you accuse everyone about being "STU" it seems like you're the one with something to hide.
You obviously have some some political argument with Stu Gibson, Gerald Connolly, Cathy Hudgins and all other democrats. What does this have to do with redistricting? Oh, I know redistricting is some kind of democratic plot against taxpayers in the county.
Please give us a break and find something else to get involved in, maybe sudoku. Or illegal immigration - there looks to be another forum on that topic, you could have a blast on that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:38PM
Troll police,
What makes you think that David/Stu didn't go to the meeting? Of course he did. That's why he's so mad. No one liked his little proposal. Or him.
What makes you think that David/Stu didn't go to the meeting? Of course he did. That's why he's so mad. No one liked his little proposal. Or him.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Troll Police
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:41PM
Ah, but David isn't the troll. I think that someone is channeling TM, though.
BTW, I actually kind of like David and think he contributes a lot of facts on this board.
BTW, I actually kind of like David and think he contributes a lot of facts on this board.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 12, 2007 11:42PM
Thanks Old Timer, but I know more about this issue than the others. I care more about kids than illegals, but thanks for the ideas. I think I'll stay here to see how this plays out.
Who would be as mad as 'David', other than Stuart DAVID Gibson? We can't really blame the poor guy, no one wants his proposal. :(
Not to worry, he's got police protection, protection from his own community/taxpayers/voters. How sad. Maybe he should have consulted them before he went down this road. Just a thought.
Who would be as mad as 'David', other than Stuart DAVID Gibson? We can't really blame the poor guy, no one wants his proposal. :(
Not to worry, he's got police protection, protection from his own community/taxpayers/voters. How sad. Maybe he should have consulted them before he went down this road. Just a thought.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:04AM
Just curious, is Stu supposed to placate his constituents who don't want redistricting at the expense of his constituents in Reston who do want it? Or don't the Reston folks count?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
david
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:16AM
Hmm07 and others wrote positively about a magnet program: "even the South Lakes people were happy with the thought of a magnet school and they added their tallies to that idea on the sheet."
That sounds nice, and everybody loves a happy compromise. But it doesn't really address the core issues:
FCPS can't be sure that students will actually enroll in the magnet (isn't the IB program practically a magnet?);
it drives up busing costs and complexity;
it doesn't predictably reduce crowding at Westfields and Chantilly;
SLHS doesn't have "sufficient capacity available at South Lakes to operate two high schools in one building (see http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm#15")
Everyone here talks about throwing someone under the bus--but what exactly is so horrible about being redistricted? My kids go to different schools; it's no big deal. I can see changing schools would suck for individual students, but grandfathering can eliminate that.
Answer: it's all about the parents' fear of change, i.e., not a rational basis for making decisions.
That sounds nice, and everybody loves a happy compromise. But it doesn't really address the core issues:
FCPS can't be sure that students will actually enroll in the magnet (isn't the IB program practically a magnet?);
it drives up busing costs and complexity;
it doesn't predictably reduce crowding at Westfields and Chantilly;
SLHS doesn't have "sufficient capacity available at South Lakes to operate two high schools in one building (see http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm#15")
Everyone here talks about throwing someone under the bus--but what exactly is so horrible about being redistricted? My kids go to different schools; it's no big deal. I can see changing schools would suck for individual students, but grandfathering can eliminate that.
Answer: it's all about the parents' fear of change, i.e., not a rational basis for making decisions.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:36AM
Let the public decide. Consult them first.
TJ is a magnet, there doesn't seem to be any problem in getting kids to go there. AND they work out busing for the entire county. Part of South Lakes could be for the over flow TJ students, TJ2 for the TJ kids in the northern part of the county, McLean, Vienna, Westfield, Chantilly, and Oakton TJ students go to South Lakes. The TJ courses and classes go with them. TJ's way over crowded AND about to be renovated. Move 1/3 to 1/2 of that student body to South Lakes, and problem solved. TJ kids won't need to commute so far, safe bus costs, and South Lakes is filled. OR do the same thing with a TJ program for humanities, for those students in the county who aren't into math and science. Use all 700 seats for that. It would fill up immediately, if it offered the right course.
Of course they could operate both schools at South Lakes. Many schools, all over the country, do it.
The magnet programs at Montgomery Blair is not lacking in applications or students. Something similar could be done at South Lakes. OR make it a real IB magnet, like at Richard Montgomery. That's worked too.
There is NO reason not to explore some of these other options. It's far better than pitting one neighborhood against another. Make South Lakes so that people WANT to go there, rather than forcing them to go. That will get so ugly, with so much resentment and anger. It could all be avoided. If only our School Board was open to what the people want. Let the people explore the options and decide what will work best. Boundary changes are not the ONLY solution to under enrolled schools and it certainly isn't the best solution.
TJ is a magnet, there doesn't seem to be any problem in getting kids to go there. AND they work out busing for the entire county. Part of South Lakes could be for the over flow TJ students, TJ2 for the TJ kids in the northern part of the county, McLean, Vienna, Westfield, Chantilly, and Oakton TJ students go to South Lakes. The TJ courses and classes go with them. TJ's way over crowded AND about to be renovated. Move 1/3 to 1/2 of that student body to South Lakes, and problem solved. TJ kids won't need to commute so far, safe bus costs, and South Lakes is filled. OR do the same thing with a TJ program for humanities, for those students in the county who aren't into math and science. Use all 700 seats for that. It would fill up immediately, if it offered the right course.
Of course they could operate both schools at South Lakes. Many schools, all over the country, do it.
The magnet programs at Montgomery Blair is not lacking in applications or students. Something similar could be done at South Lakes. OR make it a real IB magnet, like at Richard Montgomery. That's worked too.
There is NO reason not to explore some of these other options. It's far better than pitting one neighborhood against another. Make South Lakes so that people WANT to go there, rather than forcing them to go. That will get so ugly, with so much resentment and anger. It could all be avoided. If only our School Board was open to what the people want. Let the people explore the options and decide what will work best. Boundary changes are not the ONLY solution to under enrolled schools and it certainly isn't the best solution.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
LH to SL parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:57AM
I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea of redistricting for the purpose of relieving overpopulated schools by bringing more students (and their families) to our South Lakes HS "community." However, after attending Monday night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish, uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can to keep yourselves and your children as far away as possible from our extremely intelligent, diverse, talented, open-minded, and global thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to think of the negative impact that your bullying personalities would have on our children. Oh, and echoing a question that I heard several times at the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY VALUES!?!?!"
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 13, 2007 01:13AM
Great! If the entire community opposes any redistricting, including South Lakes parents, then the school board will be forced to listen to alternatives to this boundary study! Good news for everyone!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
usless
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:03AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>they want a community school<<<
>
> but they want students from outside the community
> to go there? Can't have it both ways.
Do you consider your school a community school? Does it have students from more than one town? By community school we mean one where the students come from the surrounding area and not the other side of the county. It would be nice if Reston could be unified but that does not mean that adding a different nearby school such as fox mill or crossfield would not also make a community school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>they want a community school<<<
>
> but they want students from outside the community
> to go there? Can't have it both ways.
Do you consider your school a community school? Does it have students from more than one town? By community school we mean one where the students come from the surrounding area and not the other side of the county. It would be nice if Reston could be unified but that does not mean that adding a different nearby school such as fox mill or crossfield would not also make a community school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:12AM
Oh. Which community decides what constitutes a community school? People at South Lakes? Or just the school board? As far as I know, McLean high school has only McLean students. Madison has only Vienna kids. Forcing students to go to South Lakes, who don't want to be there, won't help the community school feeling.
Having kids from all over the county didn't seem to be a problem at TJ. It made for some great diversity, but they also loved their school. I know that South Lakes really likes diversity. So why wouldn't they welcome students from other areas of the county? Students who REALLY want to be there, like kids at TJ?
Having kids from all over the county didn't seem to be a problem at TJ. It made for some great diversity, but they also loved their school. I know that South Lakes really likes diversity. So why wouldn't they welcome students from other areas of the county? Students who REALLY want to be there, like kids at TJ?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 13, 2007 06:53AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sports, theater, and band are simply not
> compelling reasons for changing anything with
> schools. If kids want those things, they can
> either go to a school where sports are most
> important, or play in the area sports. Every
> community has baseball and football teams. Every
> community has theatre. Every school has a band.
> None of things are sufficient reasons for
> redistricting.
>
> Perhaps South Lakes could become the theater and
> music magnet school. Those who care most about
> those things could go to South Lakes. Or it could
> be the football and basketball magnet, like other
> schools in Virginia that concentrate on sports.
> Personally, I think schools should be about
> academics and an academic magnet would be
> preferable. But let the people decide, not Stu
> Gibson.
Neen,
You have much to say and good things to contribute. It is a pity that you sit at home and have these conversations with your self on this board while the rest of us are out there braving it at the meeting and speaking our peace. So what if your kids, your community aren't affected by all of this, you do no good as the couch potato commentator.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sports, theater, and band are simply not
> compelling reasons for changing anything with
> schools. If kids want those things, they can
> either go to a school where sports are most
> important, or play in the area sports. Every
> community has baseball and football teams. Every
> community has theatre. Every school has a band.
> None of things are sufficient reasons for
> redistricting.
>
> Perhaps South Lakes could become the theater and
> music magnet school. Those who care most about
> those things could go to South Lakes. Or it could
> be the football and basketball magnet, like other
> schools in Virginia that concentrate on sports.
> Personally, I think schools should be about
> academics and an academic magnet would be
> preferable. But let the people decide, not Stu
> Gibson.
Neen,
You have much to say and good things to contribute. It is a pity that you sit at home and have these conversations with your self on this board while the rest of us are out there braving it at the meeting and speaking our peace. So what if your kids, your community aren't affected by all of this, you do no good as the couch potato commentator.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 07:32AM
Wow...
"I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea of redistricting for the purpose of relieving overpopulated schools by bringing more students (and their families) to our South Lakes HS "community." However, after attending Monday night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish, uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can to keep yourselves and your children as far away as possible from our extremely intelligent, diverse, talented, open-minded, and global thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to think of the negative impact that your bullying personalities would have on our children. Oh, and echoing a question that I heard several times at the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY VALUES!?!?!"
Your kids will never come into contact with most of these parents, since only a few of them can be parents of kids moving to South Lakes. Feel better now?
However, any kids who DO go to South Lakes will "be exposed" to you, since you'll be around right? Not assigning blame, just an observation. How does this motivate those parents whose kids could be moved to feel their kids will be going to a good environment?
A lot of people expressed a strong preference for "overcrowding" vs. redistricting. They also expressed that if the South Lakes boundary area needs to be enlarged, it should be done looking at all schools around South Lakes, including e.g. Madison, which is forecast to be overcrowded in the future.
"I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea of redistricting for the purpose of relieving overpopulated schools by bringing more students (and their families) to our South Lakes HS "community." However, after attending Monday night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish, uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can to keep yourselves and your children as far away as possible from our extremely intelligent, diverse, talented, open-minded, and global thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to think of the negative impact that your bullying personalities would have on our children. Oh, and echoing a question that I heard several times at the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY VALUES!?!?!"
Your kids will never come into contact with most of these parents, since only a few of them can be parents of kids moving to South Lakes. Feel better now?
However, any kids who DO go to South Lakes will "be exposed" to you, since you'll be around right? Not assigning blame, just an observation. How does this motivate those parents whose kids could be moved to feel their kids will be going to a good environment?
A lot of people expressed a strong preference for "overcrowding" vs. redistricting. They also expressed that if the South Lakes boundary area needs to be enlarged, it should be done looking at all schools around South Lakes, including e.g. Madison, which is forecast to be overcrowded in the future.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 07:37AM
david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmm07 and others wrote positively about a magnet
> program: "even the South Lakes people were happy
> with the thought of a magnet school and they added
> their tallies to that idea on the sheet."
>
> That sounds nice, and everybody loves a happy
> compromise. But it doesn't really address the
> core issues:
>
> FCPS can't be sure that students will actually
> enroll in the magnet (isn't the IB program
> practically a magnet?);
>
> it drives up busing costs and complexity;
>
> it doesn't predictably reduce crowding at
> Westfields and Chantilly;
>
> SLHS doesn't have "sufficient capacity available
> at South Lakes to operate two high schools in one
> building (see
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/fa
> q.htm#15")
>
> Everyone here talks about throwing someone under
> the bus--but what exactly is so horrible about
> being redistricted? My kids go to different
> schools; it's no big deal. I can see changing
> schools would suck for individual students, but
> grandfathering can eliminate that.
>
> Answer: it's all about the parents' fear of
> change, i.e., not a rational basis for making
> decisions.
I'm not afraid of change. I just want the change to be well thought out before it disrupts thousands of people...and when you include families, that number will definitely reach into the thousands. If I thought for one minute that they would actually grandfather all kids who have started high school I would not be so adamently opposed to this whole thing. But it is a given fact that Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith are liars and I don't trust them to honestly grandfather anyone. Until I hear that, and until I hear that there will be a full complement of AP classes TAUGHT BY A REAL LIVE TEACHER IN A REAL LIVE CLASSROOM at any school to which my kids will be moved, I will not support any redistricting at all. You just can't fix one school at the expense of another. THERE WILL BE NO OVER CROWDING at any one of the schools....except Langley, by the time they phase everyone in, the problem will be solved everywhere but South Lakes. This is not about over-enrollment. It is about raising test scores on the backs of the kids you are going to force out of their own schools.
Providing an incentive for people to WANT to attend South Lakes is the better idea. If you can get several hundred more students there, all of whom want to be there and will have a vested interest in the success of the school, then that is a win-win for everyone. They don't care one minute about the costs because if they did, they wouldn't be spending millions on an addition to solve over crowding at Langley when SL is underenrolled. They had a capacity in mind when they built Westfields, and they were sticking to that number until it stopped supporting the efforts to move kids to South Lakes and then that number was suddently "not optimal." THey aren't kidding anyone.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmm07 and others wrote positively about a magnet
> program: "even the South Lakes people were happy
> with the thought of a magnet school and they added
> their tallies to that idea on the sheet."
>
> That sounds nice, and everybody loves a happy
> compromise. But it doesn't really address the
> core issues:
>
> FCPS can't be sure that students will actually
> enroll in the magnet (isn't the IB program
> practically a magnet?);
>
> it drives up busing costs and complexity;
>
> it doesn't predictably reduce crowding at
> Westfields and Chantilly;
>
> SLHS doesn't have "sufficient capacity available
> at South Lakes to operate two high schools in one
> building (see
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/fa
> q.htm#15")
>
> Everyone here talks about throwing someone under
> the bus--but what exactly is so horrible about
> being redistricted? My kids go to different
> schools; it's no big deal. I can see changing
> schools would suck for individual students, but
> grandfathering can eliminate that.
>
> Answer: it's all about the parents' fear of
> change, i.e., not a rational basis for making
> decisions.
I'm not afraid of change. I just want the change to be well thought out before it disrupts thousands of people...and when you include families, that number will definitely reach into the thousands. If I thought for one minute that they would actually grandfather all kids who have started high school I would not be so adamently opposed to this whole thing. But it is a given fact that Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith are liars and I don't trust them to honestly grandfather anyone. Until I hear that, and until I hear that there will be a full complement of AP classes TAUGHT BY A REAL LIVE TEACHER IN A REAL LIVE CLASSROOM at any school to which my kids will be moved, I will not support any redistricting at all. You just can't fix one school at the expense of another. THERE WILL BE NO OVER CROWDING at any one of the schools....except Langley, by the time they phase everyone in, the problem will be solved everywhere but South Lakes. This is not about over-enrollment. It is about raising test scores on the backs of the kids you are going to force out of their own schools.
Providing an incentive for people to WANT to attend South Lakes is the better idea. If you can get several hundred more students there, all of whom want to be there and will have a vested interest in the success of the school, then that is a win-win for everyone. They don't care one minute about the costs because if they did, they wouldn't be spending millions on an addition to solve over crowding at Langley when SL is underenrolled. They had a capacity in mind when they built Westfields, and they were sticking to that number until it stopped supporting the efforts to move kids to South Lakes and then that number was suddently "not optimal." THey aren't kidding anyone.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 07:39AM
LH to SL parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea
> of redistricting for the purpose of relieving
> overpopulated schools by bringing more students
> (and their families) to our South Lakes HS
> "community." However, after attending Monday
> night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have
> decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South
> Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish,
> uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I
> witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can
> to keep yourselves and your children as far away
> as possible from our extremely intelligent,
> diverse, talented, open-minded, and global
> thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven
> forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to
> think of the negative impact that your bullying
> personalities would have on our children. Oh, and
> echoing a question that I heard several times at
> the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY
> VALUES!?!?!"
I was at the meeting and not once did I hear the phrase "property values."
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea
> of redistricting for the purpose of relieving
> overpopulated schools by bringing more students
> (and their families) to our South Lakes HS
> "community." However, after attending Monday
> night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have
> decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South
> Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish,
> uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I
> witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can
> to keep yourselves and your children as far away
> as possible from our extremely intelligent,
> diverse, talented, open-minded, and global
> thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven
> forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to
> think of the negative impact that your bullying
> personalities would have on our children. Oh, and
> echoing a question that I heard several times at
> the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY
> VALUES!?!?!"
I was at the meeting and not once did I hear the phrase "property values."
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 08:50AM
I was at the meeting and heard about property values several times.
On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many people talk about keeping their community schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet against their will. Don't you all think we want a community school too?
I think SLVerity had it right. Let's just take all of our tax receipts and keep them in Reston. Invest in SL school, and have such a great, small school that would rival a private school. The only way to get in would be to buy in Reston. Property values in Reston would go through the roof.
How does that sound to everyone? Are you willing to give up what Reston taxes bring to your school so that Reston schools can be great?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 08:50AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many people talk about keeping their community schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet against their will. Don't you all think we want a community school too?
I think SLVerity had it right. Let's just take all of our tax receipts and keep them in Reston. Invest in SL school, and have such a great, small school that would rival a private school. The only way to get in would be to buy in Reston. Property values in Reston would go through the roof.
How does that sound to everyone? Are you willing to give up what Reston taxes bring to your school so that Reston schools can be great?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 08:50AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
what if
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:01AM
from the maps i have seen, Madison Island is a no brainer move to South Lakes, and an additional community nearest to South Lakes. DONE> Still can't believe the "Madison Island" in RESTON goes to Madison.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:06AM
There are no "Reston tax receipts". There are taxes on commercial buildings located in Reston, but they go to the county, which provides the services for Reston.
(Unrelated thought: it might be amusing to see what the Reston Homeowner's association would come up with though. Dress codes, for sure. No politically incorrect speech, naturally. An attempt to opt out of No Child Left Behind and Virginia SOLs would be a given, since they focus on results rather than behavior. BTW, my kids attended Lake Anne elementary school.)
The issue with Reston schools is not lack of money. The issue is a history of mismanagement which has driven away school age families and discouraged new ones from coming in. Looking objectively at school performance, the same issues affect Dogwood elementary, and to a lesser extent Langston Hughes. Its just so sad that the solution to that mismanagement is to take kids who had nothing to do with the problem and tell them they have to leave their friends behind.
(Unrelated thought: it might be amusing to see what the Reston Homeowner's association would come up with though. Dress codes, for sure. No politically incorrect speech, naturally. An attempt to opt out of No Child Left Behind and Virginia SOLs would be a given, since they focus on results rather than behavior. BTW, my kids attended Lake Anne elementary school.)
The issue with Reston schools is not lack of money. The issue is a history of mismanagement which has driven away school age families and discouraged new ones from coming in. Looking objectively at school performance, the same issues affect Dogwood elementary, and to a lesser extent Langston Hughes. Its just so sad that the solution to that mismanagement is to take kids who had nothing to do with the problem and tell them they have to leave their friends behind.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:14AM
Oakton parent,
Now are you catchiing on...That is correct. All of Reston's taxes go to FFX county and help pay for all of your wonderful programs at Oakton. I would venture to guess Reston's tax reciepts far eclipse Oakton's. And, I know complex interrelationships are difficult for you to understand, but all of those high-taxed high rises and business DON'T generate lots of school aged children. Hence, the reason Reston generates high tax revenues is the SAME reason it is underenrolled.
If you don't want any part of this, as you say, then let Reston keep it's tax receipts AND its schools apart from the rest of FFX county. You really can't have it both ways.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 09:18AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Now are you catchiing on...That is correct. All of Reston's taxes go to FFX county and help pay for all of your wonderful programs at Oakton. I would venture to guess Reston's tax reciepts far eclipse Oakton's. And, I know complex interrelationships are difficult for you to understand, but all of those high-taxed high rises and business DON'T generate lots of school aged children. Hence, the reason Reston generates high tax revenues is the SAME reason it is underenrolled.
If you don't want any part of this, as you say, then let Reston keep it's tax receipts AND its schools apart from the rest of FFX county. You really can't have it both ways.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 09:18AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:25AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at the meeting and heard about property
> values several times.
>
> On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many
> people talk about keeping their community schools
> intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet
> against their will. Don't you all think we want a
> community school too?
>
> I think SLVerity had it right. Let's just take all
> of our tax receipts and keep them in Reston.
> Invest in SL school, and have such a great, small
> school that would rival a private school. The
> only way to get in would be to buy in Reston.
> Property values in Reston would go through the
> roof.
>
> How does that sound to everyone? Are you willing
> to give up what Reston taxes bring to your school
> so that Reston schools can be great?
As to your magnet issues, you should probably take that up with the South Lakes parents in my room (there were about 8 of them sitting together) ALL of whom supported with enthusiasm the idea of a magent program. Not one of them brought up "community school" but rather were concerned with "resources" throughout the entire discussion. And why should other kids be removed from what they consider to be their own "community school" to be placed into another school that is 1) NOT their community and 2) doesn't even have the same academic curriculum as their former community school?
I truly want the people of South Lakes to be happy. I think it is a history of Stu and his cronies completely and utterly mismanaging the schools over there that has put them in this position. But that happiness cannot and should not come at the expense of another's...or in this case, thousands of others.
I have almost zero faith in FCPS to get this right. They were there last night to make a presentation to adults and couldn't even manage to have correct data on their slide presentation. The data they did have was almost insulting...Since when is school spirit a bad thing? That slide was absurd. What was Betsy Goodman's response to the crowd about that slide? "OH well, I didn't want to put that one on there. I told them not to but THEY MADE ME PUT THAT THERE" WHo is "THEY?" THe inmates were running the asylum...
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at the meeting and heard about property
> values several times.
>
> On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many
> people talk about keeping their community schools
> intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet
> against their will. Don't you all think we want a
> community school too?
>
> I think SLVerity had it right. Let's just take all
> of our tax receipts and keep them in Reston.
> Invest in SL school, and have such a great, small
> school that would rival a private school. The
> only way to get in would be to buy in Reston.
> Property values in Reston would go through the
> roof.
>
> How does that sound to everyone? Are you willing
> to give up what Reston taxes bring to your school
> so that Reston schools can be great?
As to your magnet issues, you should probably take that up with the South Lakes parents in my room (there were about 8 of them sitting together) ALL of whom supported with enthusiasm the idea of a magent program. Not one of them brought up "community school" but rather were concerned with "resources" throughout the entire discussion. And why should other kids be removed from what they consider to be their own "community school" to be placed into another school that is 1) NOT their community and 2) doesn't even have the same academic curriculum as their former community school?
I truly want the people of South Lakes to be happy. I think it is a history of Stu and his cronies completely and utterly mismanaging the schools over there that has put them in this position. But that happiness cannot and should not come at the expense of another's...or in this case, thousands of others.
I have almost zero faith in FCPS to get this right. They were there last night to make a presentation to adults and couldn't even manage to have correct data on their slide presentation. The data they did have was almost insulting...Since when is school spirit a bad thing? That slide was absurd. What was Betsy Goodman's response to the crowd about that slide? "OH well, I didn't want to put that one on there. I told them not to but THEY MADE ME PUT THAT THERE" WHo is "THEY?" THe inmates were running the asylum...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:26AM
"On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many people talk about keeping their community schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet against their will. Don't you all think we want a community school too?"
That's sort of a disingenuous argument. If Oakton was underenrolled, I wouldn't object to having a magnet program in there. We're talking about approx. 150 kids per grade level. If it's an attractive magnet, and if the school is as pleasant as all (except TM) the SL parents feel it is, then students will come, they will have school spirit. They will participate in sports, etc. Some students who want to escape overcrowding would come from Westfield and Chantilly. How would that make it not a community school? Any way you add students they will be coming from outside the current community, so why does it matter so much?
As far as the magnet being against your will, come on, is having a quality magnet in your school more negative than being redistricted? ( to a school with fewer offerings than our current ones)
I don't want to name call, but SOME SL parents are being very, well, spoiled. Give us more students, give us "good students" (not McNair please, or just a few of them), and stop hurting our feelings by saying you don't want to come to our wonderful school, sniff. I came into this forum to learn about the issue, and I have not been dead set against SL, but if you're going to whine, you're going to alienate people like me who could have worked cooperatively to find a mutually acceptable solution.
That's sort of a disingenuous argument. If Oakton was underenrolled, I wouldn't object to having a magnet program in there. We're talking about approx. 150 kids per grade level. If it's an attractive magnet, and if the school is as pleasant as all (except TM) the SL parents feel it is, then students will come, they will have school spirit. They will participate in sports, etc. Some students who want to escape overcrowding would come from Westfield and Chantilly. How would that make it not a community school? Any way you add students they will be coming from outside the current community, so why does it matter so much?
As far as the magnet being against your will, come on, is having a quality magnet in your school more negative than being redistricted? ( to a school with fewer offerings than our current ones)
I don't want to name call, but SOME SL parents are being very, well, spoiled. Give us more students, give us "good students" (not McNair please, or just a few of them), and stop hurting our feelings by saying you don't want to come to our wonderful school, sniff. I came into this forum to learn about the issue, and I have not been dead set against SL, but if you're going to whine, you're going to alienate people like me who could have worked cooperatively to find a mutually acceptable solution.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:28AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton parent,
> Now are you catchiing on...That is correct. All
> of Reston's taxes go to FFX county and help pay
> for all of your wonderful programs at Oakton. I
> would venture to guess Reston's tax reciepts far
> eclipse Oakton's. And, I know complex
> interrelationships are difficult for you to
> understand, but all of those high-taxed high rises
> and business DON'T generate lots of school aged
> children. Hence, the reason Reston generates high
> tax revenues is the SAME reason it is
> underenrolled.
>
> If you don't want any part of this, as you say,
> then let Reston keep it's tax receipts AND its
> schools apart from the rest of FFX county. You
> really can't have it both ways.
Businesses in Reston do NOT pay the bulk of taxes... they actually get a TAX BREAK. Property taxes pay for the schools, and If I had to bet I'd say the residents of chantilly fairfax and centerville pay more porperty taxes than the residents of reston.
and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be redistricted to SL will lose value because SL does not have the same reputation as Oakton Westfield or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even right, but it is reality.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton parent,
> Now are you catchiing on...That is correct. All
> of Reston's taxes go to FFX county and help pay
> for all of your wonderful programs at Oakton. I
> would venture to guess Reston's tax reciepts far
> eclipse Oakton's. And, I know complex
> interrelationships are difficult for you to
> understand, but all of those high-taxed high rises
> and business DON'T generate lots of school aged
> children. Hence, the reason Reston generates high
> tax revenues is the SAME reason it is
> underenrolled.
>
> If you don't want any part of this, as you say,
> then let Reston keep it's tax receipts AND its
> schools apart from the rest of FFX county. You
> really can't have it both ways.
Businesses in Reston do NOT pay the bulk of taxes... they actually get a TAX BREAK. Property taxes pay for the schools, and If I had to bet I'd say the residents of chantilly fairfax and centerville pay more porperty taxes than the residents of reston.
and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be redistricted to SL will lose value because SL does not have the same reputation as Oakton Westfield or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even right, but it is reality.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:30AM
SLPP...let me type more slowly so you can keep up...
Businesses pay taxes, check.
Schools cost money, check.
People in one part of the county can erect artificial boundaries at a whim to "keep" tax revenue from businesses located within those boundaries, when those busineses were attracted by the county's services, including schools, that were created by people outside those boundaries in the first place? Umm...no. Nice try, but it's a silly argument. You didn't create those businesses any more than I did. You have no prior claim to their tax revenue.
The Reston businesses didn't reduce the enrollment at South Lakes. South Lakes used to have 2000+ students in the same boundaries. Maybe you should be asking what happened in Reston in general and South Lakes in particular to make it so north Reston doesn't want to go there? Or were you going to fence them out too?
Businesses pay taxes, check.
Schools cost money, check.
People in one part of the county can erect artificial boundaries at a whim to "keep" tax revenue from businesses located within those boundaries, when those busineses were attracted by the county's services, including schools, that were created by people outside those boundaries in the first place? Umm...no. Nice try, but it's a silly argument. You didn't create those businesses any more than I did. You have no prior claim to their tax revenue.
The Reston businesses didn't reduce the enrollment at South Lakes. South Lakes used to have 2000+ students in the same boundaries. Maybe you should be asking what happened in Reston in general and South Lakes in particular to make it so north Reston doesn't want to go there? Or were you going to fence them out too?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:56AM
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:10AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> As to your magnet issues, you should probably take
> that up with the South Lakes parents in my room
> (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting together in your group? Base on my own family's experience at the meeting, and that of several people I have spoken with, we were spread pretty thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject hyperbole to make your point, would you?
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> As to your magnet issues, you should probably take
> that up with the South Lakes parents in my room
> (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting together in your group? Base on my own family's experience at the meeting, and that of several people I have spoken with, we were spread pretty thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject hyperbole to make your point, would you?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:18AM
chantilly mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be
> redistricted to SL will lose value because SL does
> not have the same reputation as Oakton Westfield
> or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even right,
> but it is reality.
Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and those at Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as everyone likes to say, then why would they not improve the reputation of SL if they were to attend?
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be
> redistricted to SL will lose value because SL does
> not have the same reputation as Oakton Westfield
> or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even right,
> but it is reality.
Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and those at Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as everyone likes to say, then why would they not improve the reputation of SL if they were to attend?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:19AM
Oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP...let me type more slowly so you can keep
> up...
>
> Businesses pay taxes, check.
>
> Schools cost money, check.
>
> People in one part of the county can erect
> artificial boundaries at a whim to "keep" tax
> revenue from businesses located within those
> boundaries, when those busineses were attracted by
> the county's services, including schools, that
> were created by people outside those boundaries in
> the first place? Umm...no. Nice try, but it's a
> silly argument. You didn't create those
> businesses any more than I did. You have no prior
> claim to their tax revenue.
>
> The Reston businesses didn't reduce the enrollment
> at South Lakes. South Lakes used to have 2000+
> students in the same boundaries. Maybe you should
> be asking what happened in Reston in general and
> South Lakes in particular to make it so north
> Reston doesn't want to go there? Or were you
> going to fence them out too?
Aside from businesses, I also referred to the high-priced high rises that are filled with DINKs and retirees. These people pay a lot of taxes and don't contribute many kids. This has been the majority of the residential development in Reston for awhile, which is part of the reason for the underenrollment. Why is it so hard to understand how Reston demographics influence the underenrollment problem?
All I'm saying is if you don't want to deal with the problems in Reston, then perhaps you don't want our tax money either. After all, we will need it to "fix our own problems" as many of you like to say. This way, we get our community school, you all stay where you are, and everyone is happy, right?
And I have talked to more than a few people in North Reston who would not mind going to South Lakes if the AP issue was taken care of.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:33AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP...let me type more slowly so you can keep
> up...
>
> Businesses pay taxes, check.
>
> Schools cost money, check.
>
> People in one part of the county can erect
> artificial boundaries at a whim to "keep" tax
> revenue from businesses located within those
> boundaries, when those busineses were attracted by
> the county's services, including schools, that
> were created by people outside those boundaries in
> the first place? Umm...no. Nice try, but it's a
> silly argument. You didn't create those
> businesses any more than I did. You have no prior
> claim to their tax revenue.
>
> The Reston businesses didn't reduce the enrollment
> at South Lakes. South Lakes used to have 2000+
> students in the same boundaries. Maybe you should
> be asking what happened in Reston in general and
> South Lakes in particular to make it so north
> Reston doesn't want to go there? Or were you
> going to fence them out too?
Aside from businesses, I also referred to the high-priced high rises that are filled with DINKs and retirees. These people pay a lot of taxes and don't contribute many kids. This has been the majority of the residential development in Reston for awhile, which is part of the reason for the underenrollment. Why is it so hard to understand how Reston demographics influence the underenrollment problem?
All I'm saying is if you don't want to deal with the problems in Reston, then perhaps you don't want our tax money either. After all, we will need it to "fix our own problems" as many of you like to say. This way, we get our community school, you all stay where you are, and everyone is happy, right?
And I have talked to more than a few people in North Reston who would not mind going to South Lakes if the AP issue was taken care of.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:33AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:22AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
> > As to your magnet issues, you should probably
> take
> > that up with the South Lakes parents in my room
> > (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
>
> Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> together in your group? Base on my own family's
> experience at the meeting, and that of several
> people I have spoken with, we were spread pretty
> thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more
> than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> hyperbole to make your point, would you?
There were eight. Four sitting together on the back row to the right, one of whom said she not only was a parent (or parent to be) but was also an alumni of the school. There was a lady in the middle row on the right, two sitting together on the right in the front row and one to the left side of the other front row who stated he lived in the SL district but has no kids that would be affected, which I took to mean he either has grown kids or no kids. Would you like for me to describe what they were wearing? I can even remember a few of their names. You want my room number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole to make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
> > As to your magnet issues, you should probably
> take
> > that up with the South Lakes parents in my room
> > (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
>
> Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> together in your group? Base on my own family's
> experience at the meeting, and that of several
> people I have spoken with, we were spread pretty
> thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more
> than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> hyperbole to make your point, would you?
There were eight. Four sitting together on the back row to the right, one of whom said she not only was a parent (or parent to be) but was also an alumni of the school. There was a lady in the middle row on the right, two sitting together on the right in the front row and one to the left side of the other front row who stated he lived in the SL district but has no kids that would be affected, which I took to mean he either has grown kids or no kids. Would you like for me to describe what they were wearing? I can even remember a few of their names. You want my room number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole to make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:28AM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so
> many people talk about keeping their community
> schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a
> magnet against their will. Don't you all think we
> want a community school too?"
>
> That's sort of a disingenuous argument. If Oakton
> was underenrolled, I wouldn't object to having a
> magnet program in there. We're talking about
> approx. 150 kids per grade level. If it's an
> attractive magnet, and if the school is as
> pleasant as all (except TM) the SL parents feel it
> is, then students will come, they will have school
> spirit. They will participate in sports, etc. Some
> students who want to escape overcrowding would
> come from Westfield and Chantilly. How would that
> make it not a community school? Any way you add
> students they will be coming from outside the
> current community, so why does it matter so much?
>
> As far as the magnet being against your will, come
> on, is having a quality magnet in your school more
> negative than being redistricted? ( to a school
> with fewer offerings than our current ones)
>
> I don't want to name call, but SOME SL parents are
> being very, well, spoiled. Give us more students,
> give us "good students" (not McNair please, or
> just a few of them), and stop hurting our feelings
> by saying you don't want to come to our wonderful
> school, sniff. I came into this forum to learn
> about the issue, and I have not been dead set
> against SL, but if you're going to whine, you're
> going to alienate people like me who could have
> worked cooperatively to find a mutually acceptable
> solution.
I think a magnet should be something that would be decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after all, our school you guys are tossing around like a football.
And I don't understand what you mean by a "disingenuous argument". Are you saying that I'm lying when I say I want a community school? Why would I lie, and how would you know that anyway?
And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be acceptable to all, including South Lakes parents, right?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:34AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> "On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so
> many people talk about keeping their community
> schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a
> magnet against their will. Don't you all think we
> want a community school too?"
>
> That's sort of a disingenuous argument. If Oakton
> was underenrolled, I wouldn't object to having a
> magnet program in there. We're talking about
> approx. 150 kids per grade level. If it's an
> attractive magnet, and if the school is as
> pleasant as all (except TM) the SL parents feel it
> is, then students will come, they will have school
> spirit. They will participate in sports, etc. Some
> students who want to escape overcrowding would
> come from Westfield and Chantilly. How would that
> make it not a community school? Any way you add
> students they will be coming from outside the
> current community, so why does it matter so much?
>
> As far as the magnet being against your will, come
> on, is having a quality magnet in your school more
> negative than being redistricted? ( to a school
> with fewer offerings than our current ones)
>
> I don't want to name call, but SOME SL parents are
> being very, well, spoiled. Give us more students,
> give us "good students" (not McNair please, or
> just a few of them), and stop hurting our feelings
> by saying you don't want to come to our wonderful
> school, sniff. I came into this forum to learn
> about the issue, and I have not been dead set
> against SL, but if you're going to whine, you're
> going to alienate people like me who could have
> worked cooperatively to find a mutually acceptable
> solution.
I think a magnet should be something that would be decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after all, our school you guys are tossing around like a football.
And I don't understand what you mean by a "disingenuous argument". Are you saying that I'm lying when I say I want a community school? Why would I lie, and how would you know that anyway?
And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be acceptable to all, including South Lakes parents, right?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:34AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:34AM
Oakton Parent,
I suggest you go back and read this entire thread. A lot of the questions you are asking about Reston have been answered before.
Reston is an aging community.
Reston (SL pyramid) is has been built out for years, with the exception of high density development around the RTC - units that don't produce kids.
Much of the housing in Reston does not attract families anymore, as housing standards have gotten bigger, people want garages, etc.
Families are attracted to new development.
We have lost neighborhoods due to prior redistricting - this has been explained in detail on this post.
Areas around Reston that used to be farms were and still are being developed. Those homes are in other school districts, some of which are now overcrowded.
Reston is not a town, we are a postal address just like all of you.
Please stop trying to put an arbitrary boundary around Reston to keep you out.
We all moved into Fairfax County, which has a large school system. You all bought into the school system. Redistricting, just like s$%*, happens. Instead of griping about not wanting to be moved, why not consider how to make the best of whatever happens. I've lived here for 25 years and I have lived through and survived several redistricting fights. My children survived several redistricting fights. Guess what? They are more resilient than you think.
I know that you all want the best for your families. So do we SL parents. I have seen a lot more attacks on this board generated toward SL parents (and students) than the other way around. We are naturally in a defensive position. I have people's intelligence questioned, their parental judgment questioned, and their honesty questioned.
I know we are all better than that. If we aren't, then God help us.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:47AM by SLVerity.
I suggest you go back and read this entire thread. A lot of the questions you are asking about Reston have been answered before.
Reston is an aging community.
Reston (SL pyramid) is has been built out for years, with the exception of high density development around the RTC - units that don't produce kids.
Much of the housing in Reston does not attract families anymore, as housing standards have gotten bigger, people want garages, etc.
Families are attracted to new development.
We have lost neighborhoods due to prior redistricting - this has been explained in detail on this post.
Areas around Reston that used to be farms were and still are being developed. Those homes are in other school districts, some of which are now overcrowded.
Reston is not a town, we are a postal address just like all of you.
Please stop trying to put an arbitrary boundary around Reston to keep you out.
We all moved into Fairfax County, which has a large school system. You all bought into the school system. Redistricting, just like s$%*, happens. Instead of griping about not wanting to be moved, why not consider how to make the best of whatever happens. I've lived here for 25 years and I have lived through and survived several redistricting fights. My children survived several redistricting fights. Guess what? They are more resilient than you think.
I know that you all want the best for your families. So do we SL parents. I have seen a lot more attacks on this board generated toward SL parents (and students) than the other way around. We are naturally in a defensive position. I have people's intelligence questioned, their parental judgment questioned, and their honesty questioned.
I know we are all better than that. If we aren't, then God help us.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:47AM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:43AM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > As to your magnet issues, you should probably
> > take
> > > that up with the South Lakes parents in my
> room
> > > (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
>
> >
> > Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> > together in your group? Base on my own
> family's
> > experience at the meeting, and that of several
> > people I have spoken with, we were spread
> pretty
> > thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more
> > than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> > hyperbole to make your point, would you?
>
> There were eight. Four sitting together on the
> back row to the right, one of whom said she not
> only was a parent (or parent to be) but was also
> an alumni of the school. There was a lady in the
> middle row on the right, two sitting together on
> the right in the front row and one to the left
> side of the other front row who stated he lived in
> the SL district but has no kids that would be
> affected, which I took to mean he either has grown
> kids or no kids. Would you like for me to
> describe what they were wearing? I can even
> remember a few of their names. You want my room
> number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole to
> make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)
If indeed your group had 8 SL parents in it, then I am sorry I accused you of hyperbole. I had not heard that we were as well represented as that; in fact, going in we were concerned that we would be totally outnumbered and would not have representation in every group. Perhaps many more showed up than our numbers indicated, which would warm my heart.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > As to your magnet issues, you should probably
> > take
> > > that up with the South Lakes parents in my
> room
> > > (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
>
> >
> > Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> > together in your group? Base on my own
> family's
> > experience at the meeting, and that of several
> > people I have spoken with, we were spread
> pretty
> > thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more
> > than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> > hyperbole to make your point, would you?
>
> There were eight. Four sitting together on the
> back row to the right, one of whom said she not
> only was a parent (or parent to be) but was also
> an alumni of the school. There was a lady in the
> middle row on the right, two sitting together on
> the right in the front row and one to the left
> side of the other front row who stated he lived in
> the SL district but has no kids that would be
> affected, which I took to mean he either has grown
> kids or no kids. Would you like for me to
> describe what they were wearing? I can even
> remember a few of their names. You want my room
> number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole to
> make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)
If indeed your group had 8 SL parents in it, then I am sorry I accused you of hyperbole. I had not heard that we were as well represented as that; in fact, going in we were concerned that we would be totally outnumbered and would not have representation in every group. Perhaps many more showed up than our numbers indicated, which would warm my heart.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:49AM
> I think a magnet should be something that would be
> decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
> all, our school you guys are tossing around like a
> football.
Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop tossing your school around, just leave me and my kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
> And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> acceptable to all, including South Lakes parents,
> right?
Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or do the people from the other schools have to do all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
> decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
> all, our school you guys are tossing around like a
> football.
Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop tossing your school around, just leave me and my kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
> And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> acceptable to all, including South Lakes parents,
> right?
Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or do the people from the other schools have to do all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:58AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > As to your magnet issues, you should
> probably
> > > take
> > > > that up with the South Lakes parents in my
> > room
> > > > (there were about 8 of them sitting
> together)
> >
> > >
> > > Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> > > together in your group? Base on my own
> > family's
> > > experience at the meeting, and that of
> several
> > > people I have spoken with, we were spread
> > pretty
> > > thin. I have not spoken with anyone with
> more
> > > than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> > > hyperbole to make your point, would you?
> >
> > There were eight. Four sitting together on the
> > back row to the right, one of whom said she not
> > only was a parent (or parent to be) but was
> also
> > an alumni of the school. There was a lady in
> the
> > middle row on the right, two sitting together
> on
> > the right in the front row and one to the left
> > side of the other front row who stated he lived
> in
> > the SL district but has no kids that would be
> > affected, which I took to mean he either has
> grown
> > kids or no kids. Would you like for me to
> > describe what they were wearing? I can even
> > remember a few of their names. You want my
> room
> > number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole
> to
> > make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)
>
> If indeed your group had 8 SL parents in it, then
> I am sorry I accused you of hyperbole. I had not
> heard that we were as well represented as that; in
> fact, going in we were concerned that we would be
> totally outnumbered and would not have
> representation in every group. Perhaps many more
> showed up than our numbers indicated, which would
> warm my heart.
Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by the numbers,but by how pleasant they were and seemingly willing to listen to other creative solutions in an effort to get resources (not necessarily "student resources) into their school. They were pleasant, and with one exception, not one of them tried to throw out a name of any particular school they wanted moved to SL. Rather they listened to and understood the importance for EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and blue walking into the room, I was worried that it was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we don't want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen here. But what these people did was to address the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to disrupt as few people as possible. If that meant moving a magnet into their school then they were actually pretty happy with that. Like I said, they all added their tally marks to that very idea on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > As to your magnet issues, you should
> probably
> > > take
> > > > that up with the South Lakes parents in my
> > room
> > > > (there were about 8 of them sitting
> together)
> >
> > >
> > > Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> > > together in your group? Base on my own
> > family's
> > > experience at the meeting, and that of
> several
> > > people I have spoken with, we were spread
> > pretty
> > > thin. I have not spoken with anyone with
> more
> > > than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> > > hyperbole to make your point, would you?
> >
> > There were eight. Four sitting together on the
> > back row to the right, one of whom said she not
> > only was a parent (or parent to be) but was
> also
> > an alumni of the school. There was a lady in
> the
> > middle row on the right, two sitting together
> on
> > the right in the front row and one to the left
> > side of the other front row who stated he lived
> in
> > the SL district but has no kids that would be
> > affected, which I took to mean he either has
> grown
> > kids or no kids. Would you like for me to
> > describe what they were wearing? I can even
> > remember a few of their names. You want my
> room
> > number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole
> to
> > make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)
>
> If indeed your group had 8 SL parents in it, then
> I am sorry I accused you of hyperbole. I had not
> heard that we were as well represented as that; in
> fact, going in we were concerned that we would be
> totally outnumbered and would not have
> representation in every group. Perhaps many more
> showed up than our numbers indicated, which would
> warm my heart.
Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by the numbers,but by how pleasant they were and seemingly willing to listen to other creative solutions in an effort to get resources (not necessarily "student resources) into their school. They were pleasant, and with one exception, not one of them tried to throw out a name of any particular school they wanted moved to SL. Rather they listened to and understood the importance for EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and blue walking into the room, I was worried that it was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we don't want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen here. But what these people did was to address the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to disrupt as few people as possible. If that meant moving a magnet into their school then they were actually pretty happy with that. Like I said, they all added their tally marks to that very idea on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:01AM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
Like I said, I found the South Lakes parents in my group to be exceptionally willing to listen to compromise solutions such as magnet schools. I am beginning to think that the South Lakes views on this forum, that I thought were pretty representative of the school parent population are not necessarily that at all. I don't think there will be a problem convincing South Lakes parents to entertain magnet school thoughts at all. I think the problem will be with the school board because they are the ones driving this entire unnecessary process. THey must not have anything else to do.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
Like I said, I found the South Lakes parents in my group to be exceptionally willing to listen to compromise solutions such as magnet schools. I am beginning to think that the South Lakes views on this forum, that I thought were pretty representative of the school parent population are not necessarily that at all. I don't think there will be a problem convincing South Lakes parents to entertain magnet school thoughts at all. I think the problem will be with the school board because they are the ones driving this entire unnecessary process. THey must not have anything else to do.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLParent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:03AM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
At what point did everyone in the community turn against the parents and student of South Lakes? As a parent of South Lakes I don't remember visiting with the COO of FCPS and telling him I wanted re-districting.
Yes our school is underpopulated due to many reasons as already described on this blog. But please stop placing the blame on SL (especially the students). We are trying to provide information to everyone else about the school and stop the incorrect assumptions. IT'S A GOOD SCHOOL.
I can't believe some of the comments that came out of some of the meeting last night. It was disturbing how some of the adults were acting.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
At what point did everyone in the community turn against the parents and student of South Lakes? As a parent of South Lakes I don't remember visiting with the COO of FCPS and telling him I wanted re-districting.
Yes our school is underpopulated due to many reasons as already described on this blog. But please stop placing the blame on SL (especially the students). We are trying to provide information to everyone else about the school and stop the incorrect assumptions. IT'S A GOOD SCHOOL.
I can't believe some of the comments that came out of some of the meeting last night. It was disturbing how some of the adults were acting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:09AM
hmmmm07 wrote
>
> Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by the
> numbers,but by how pleasant they were and
> seemingly willing to listen to other creative
> solutions in an effort to get resources (not
> necessarily "student resources) into their school.
> They were pleasant, and with one exception, not
> one of them tried to throw out a name of any
> particular school they wanted moved to SL. Rather
> they listened to and understood the importance for
> EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their
> needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and
> blue walking into the room, I was worried that it
> was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we don't
> want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen
> here. But what these people did was to address
> the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to
> disrupt as few people as possible. If that meant
> moving a magnet into their school then they were
> actually pretty happy with that. Like I said,
> they all added their tally marks to that very idea
> on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.
See how nice we SL parents can be? Why wouldn't you want your kids in school with the children of such pleasant people? Question: were the other parents in your group as exceptionally willing to consider redistricting as an option? My guess is probably not. Why should all the give be on our side?
Perhaps they were agreeable because they had already been subjected to the rancorous scene in the session just prior, and didn't want to make waves. My spouse felt very fairly intimidated in his/her group and had to listen to a lot of insulting comments about SL. I think a statistician would tell you that you shouldn't count on that one focus group as being representative of the whole group.
>
> Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by the
> numbers,but by how pleasant they were and
> seemingly willing to listen to other creative
> solutions in an effort to get resources (not
> necessarily "student resources) into their school.
> They were pleasant, and with one exception, not
> one of them tried to throw out a name of any
> particular school they wanted moved to SL. Rather
> they listened to and understood the importance for
> EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their
> needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and
> blue walking into the room, I was worried that it
> was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we don't
> want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen
> here. But what these people did was to address
> the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to
> disrupt as few people as possible. If that meant
> moving a magnet into their school then they were
> actually pretty happy with that. Like I said,
> they all added their tally marks to that very idea
> on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.
See how nice we SL parents can be? Why wouldn't you want your kids in school with the children of such pleasant people? Question: were the other parents in your group as exceptionally willing to consider redistricting as an option? My guess is probably not. Why should all the give be on our side?
Perhaps they were agreeable because they had already been subjected to the rancorous scene in the session just prior, and didn't want to make waves. My spouse felt very fairly intimidated in his/her group and had to listen to a lot of insulting comments about SL. I think a statistician would tell you that you shouldn't count on that one focus group as being representative of the whole group.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:15AM
SLVerity,
No one is blaming the students. We're blaming you, the parents at South Lakes, for letting this situation get out of control to the point that someone else has to fix YOUR problem.
BTW, if SL was a good school, parents from the surrounding districts would be falling over themselves trying to get in. Seems the opposite is continuing to happen.
No one is blaming the students. We're blaming you, the parents at South Lakes, for letting this situation get out of control to the point that someone else has to fix YOUR problem.
BTW, if SL was a good school, parents from the surrounding districts would be falling over themselves trying to get in. Seems the opposite is continuing to happen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:22AM
Thanks, Chantilly Mom, for the tax primer, and thanks also, Oakton Parent, for the opportunity -- once again -- to redress the stereotype of what Reston is and is not.
I attended the meeting last night and was pleasantly surprised by the civility -- on all sides -- at the small group meetings, and about the willingness to hear different perspectives on issues, such as moratorium, Langley, pyramid integrity, AP/IP, etc. Not sure if it moved the ball, but it was heartening. The general meeting was a bit of a zoo, although FCPS really didn't do a good job in addressing questions raised.
The SLHS and Reston community often hears the suggestion that this whole redistricting exercise is underway to rescue wayward, hapless Reston. And that's ludicrous. We would like to utilize all of the opportunities afforded by a newly-renovated county facility, but we aren't looking for a rescue, bailout and/or infusion of "high-quality" students otherwise lacking.
Of course, no one, including SLPP, is suggesting that Reston erect boundaries around it to protect tax revenue, but also we are asserting that we --- as part of a economically robust county with a well-funded county public school system -- get an appropriate share of resources to maintain an equal opportunity to participate in an effective,viable county-wide system.
So, if Reston has provided a reasonably high share of job and employment opportunities for other county residents that live in primarily/exclusively residential communities, then we should get a fair, not a disproportionate, share of the resources -- tax dollars -- provided by the people who live and work in the county.
I note this particularly because of the frequently voiced, yet misguided, point (made last night at the Chantilly meeting, for example) that SLHS gets an expensive expansion, while it is under-attended and "under-performing", and other schools are barely above their respective limits.
SLHS has been undergoing a renovation -- long overdue by the way (and Reston "sandal-wearing, koombiyah-singing" residents did not design, nor favor, the original SLHS structure, btw) -- as a FCPS high school. It is not an expansion.
With the renovation, SLHS is prepared to welcome additional students to utilize the county facilities efficiently, which will help the county's kids, community, business, and -- ultimately -- the tax base.
As to why SLHS has a reduced student base, Oakton Parent implies that there has been flight from and broad resistance within Reston to attending SLHS.
I can speak anecdotally but in our neighborhood in south Reston, I know of only two families that either sent their kids to private school or moved (and still attend private schools). Some families have one or more of their kids attend TJ, but otherwise, all families send their kids to SLHS --- and are pleased with that choice. Many empty-nesters still live in Reston, having seen their kids off to school, and - until recently - many young families did not buy houses bought new houses. That appears to be changing. In the last two years, we have seen a number of young families move into our neighborhood, as evidenced, e.g., by budget issues for upgrades/new playground equipment long under-utilized and off-radar. I believe -- but can't quantify - that Reston elementary schools are also seeing higher attendance.
In north Reston (i.e., Aldrin and Armstrong, which feeds to Herndon), my friends and neighbors are not uniform in their views about attending SLHS. Some would love to, e.g., to attend a Reston school with teammates, church members, and neighbors. Others are wary b/c of the SLHS reputation, the shorter commute to Herndon, the higher? Herndon test scores. But I do not see a deeply-entrenched consensus or even a majority that the part of north Reston attending Herndon refuses to consider attending SLHS/Hughes.
I attended the meeting last night and was pleasantly surprised by the civility -- on all sides -- at the small group meetings, and about the willingness to hear different perspectives on issues, such as moratorium, Langley, pyramid integrity, AP/IP, etc. Not sure if it moved the ball, but it was heartening. The general meeting was a bit of a zoo, although FCPS really didn't do a good job in addressing questions raised.
The SLHS and Reston community often hears the suggestion that this whole redistricting exercise is underway to rescue wayward, hapless Reston. And that's ludicrous. We would like to utilize all of the opportunities afforded by a newly-renovated county facility, but we aren't looking for a rescue, bailout and/or infusion of "high-quality" students otherwise lacking.
Of course, no one, including SLPP, is suggesting that Reston erect boundaries around it to protect tax revenue, but also we are asserting that we --- as part of a economically robust county with a well-funded county public school system -- get an appropriate share of resources to maintain an equal opportunity to participate in an effective,viable county-wide system.
So, if Reston has provided a reasonably high share of job and employment opportunities for other county residents that live in primarily/exclusively residential communities, then we should get a fair, not a disproportionate, share of the resources -- tax dollars -- provided by the people who live and work in the county.
I note this particularly because of the frequently voiced, yet misguided, point (made last night at the Chantilly meeting, for example) that SLHS gets an expensive expansion, while it is under-attended and "under-performing", and other schools are barely above their respective limits.
SLHS has been undergoing a renovation -- long overdue by the way (and Reston "sandal-wearing, koombiyah-singing" residents did not design, nor favor, the original SLHS structure, btw) -- as a FCPS high school. It is not an expansion.
With the renovation, SLHS is prepared to welcome additional students to utilize the county facilities efficiently, which will help the county's kids, community, business, and -- ultimately -- the tax base.
As to why SLHS has a reduced student base, Oakton Parent implies that there has been flight from and broad resistance within Reston to attending SLHS.
I can speak anecdotally but in our neighborhood in south Reston, I know of only two families that either sent their kids to private school or moved (and still attend private schools). Some families have one or more of their kids attend TJ, but otherwise, all families send their kids to SLHS --- and are pleased with that choice. Many empty-nesters still live in Reston, having seen their kids off to school, and - until recently - many young families did not buy houses bought new houses. That appears to be changing. In the last two years, we have seen a number of young families move into our neighborhood, as evidenced, e.g., by budget issues for upgrades/new playground equipment long under-utilized and off-radar. I believe -- but can't quantify - that Reston elementary schools are also seeing higher attendance.
In north Reston (i.e., Aldrin and Armstrong, which feeds to Herndon), my friends and neighbors are not uniform in their views about attending SLHS. Some would love to, e.g., to attend a Reston school with teammates, church members, and neighbors. Others are wary b/c of the SLHS reputation, the shorter commute to Herndon, the higher? Herndon test scores. But I do not see a deeply-entrenched consensus or even a majority that the part of north Reston attending Herndon refuses to consider attending SLHS/Hughes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:30AM
spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> No one is blaming the students. We're blaming
> you, the parents at South Lakes, for letting this
> situation get out of control to the point that
> someone else has to fix YOUR problem.
>
> BTW, if SL was a good school, parents from the
> surrounding districts would be falling over
> themselves trying to get in. Seems the opposite
> is continuing to happen.
Spanky, I'm confused. Aren't you a resident of the SL Pyramid, thus a SL parent? What have you done to improve the school? As I recall, you pulled your kids out and into private school. Please don't try to pin this on the SL parents. We would have welcomed the help of parents who bailed out.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> No one is blaming the students. We're blaming
> you, the parents at South Lakes, for letting this
> situation get out of control to the point that
> someone else has to fix YOUR problem.
>
> BTW, if SL was a good school, parents from the
> surrounding districts would be falling over
> themselves trying to get in. Seems the opposite
> is continuing to happen.
Spanky, I'm confused. Aren't you a resident of the SL Pyramid, thus a SL parent? What have you done to improve the school? As I recall, you pulled your kids out and into private school. Please don't try to pin this on the SL parents. We would have welcomed the help of parents who bailed out.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:32AM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmmm07 wrote
> >
> > Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by
> the
> > numbers,but by how pleasant they were and
> > seemingly willing to listen to other creative
> > solutions in an effort to get resources (not
> > necessarily "student resources) into their
> school.
> > They were pleasant, and with one exception,
> not
> > one of them tried to throw out a name of any
> > particular school they wanted moved to SL.
> Rather
> > they listened to and understood the importance
> for
> > EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their
> > needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and
> > blue walking into the room, I was worried that
> it
> > was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we
> don't
> > want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen
> > here. But what these people did was to address
> > the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to
> > disrupt as few people as possible. If that
> meant
> > moving a magnet into their school then they
> were
> > actually pretty happy with that. Like I said,
> > they all added their tally marks to that very
> idea
> > on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.
>
> See how nice we SL parents can be? Why wouldn't
> you want your kids in school with the children of
> such pleasant people? Question: were the other
> parents in your group as exceptionally willing to
> consider redistricting as an option? My guess is
> probably not. Why should all the give be on our
> side?
>
> Perhaps they were agreeable because they had
> already been subjected to the rancorous scene in
> the session just prior, and didn't want to make
> waves. My spouse felt very fairly intimidated in
> his/her group and had to listen to a lot of
> insulting comments about SL. I think a
> statistician would tell you that you shouldn't
> count on that one focus group as being
> representative of the whole group.
Answer: Everyone in my group was willing to consider redistricting as an option provided it was a complete study including both Langley and Madison (not just the island.)
I'm sorry your spouse felt intimidated at the large group session. Frankly, that session was poorly handled from the get go. You can't offer a question and answer session but refuse to answer questions. That said, I think the emotion brought forth at that meeting was a great representation fo just how emotionally committed peole are to their schools. That is only going to get worse if they continue with this. I think the next two meetings will be worse, frankly, because they get closer to the end. I think people also feel like this is a done deal anyway. I will say this. If they are TRULY going to listen to what people said at the meeting, then two of the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this wil get much more ugly before it gets nice. I was pleased with my small group, but that doesn't mean every group was that way. I guess I just got lucky.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmmm07 wrote
> >
> > Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by
> the
> > numbers,but by how pleasant they were and
> > seemingly willing to listen to other creative
> > solutions in an effort to get resources (not
> > necessarily "student resources) into their
> school.
> > They were pleasant, and with one exception,
> not
> > one of them tried to throw out a name of any
> > particular school they wanted moved to SL.
> Rather
> > they listened to and understood the importance
> for
> > EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their
> > needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and
> > blue walking into the room, I was worried that
> it
> > was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we
> don't
> > want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen
> > here. But what these people did was to address
> > the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to
> > disrupt as few people as possible. If that
> meant
> > moving a magnet into their school then they
> were
> > actually pretty happy with that. Like I said,
> > they all added their tally marks to that very
> idea
> > on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.
>
> See how nice we SL parents can be? Why wouldn't
> you want your kids in school with the children of
> such pleasant people? Question: were the other
> parents in your group as exceptionally willing to
> consider redistricting as an option? My guess is
> probably not. Why should all the give be on our
> side?
>
> Perhaps they were agreeable because they had
> already been subjected to the rancorous scene in
> the session just prior, and didn't want to make
> waves. My spouse felt very fairly intimidated in
> his/her group and had to listen to a lot of
> insulting comments about SL. I think a
> statistician would tell you that you shouldn't
> count on that one focus group as being
> representative of the whole group.
Answer: Everyone in my group was willing to consider redistricting as an option provided it was a complete study including both Langley and Madison (not just the island.)
I'm sorry your spouse felt intimidated at the large group session. Frankly, that session was poorly handled from the get go. You can't offer a question and answer session but refuse to answer questions. That said, I think the emotion brought forth at that meeting was a great representation fo just how emotionally committed peole are to their schools. That is only going to get worse if they continue with this. I think the next two meetings will be worse, frankly, because they get closer to the end. I think people also feel like this is a done deal anyway. I will say this. If they are TRULY going to listen to what people said at the meeting, then two of the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this wil get much more ugly before it gets nice. I was pleased with my small group, but that doesn't mean every group was that way. I guess I just got lucky.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:35AM
SLVerity, you answered a question other than the one I asked. I wasn't talking about historical information, but rather changes in the last foure years. Here are the numbers I am asking about, which came from a deck in the last three days so could not have been discussed previously in this very long thread....
Here is what people thought the enrollment for this school year would be at the various high schools in the study, using projection data from 2003 (four years ago):
Chantilly: 2,856
Oakton: 2,378
Madison: 1,866
Westfield: 3,220
Herndon: 2,272
South Lakes: 1,683
Here is the number of kids who actually showed up this year, with the difference in absolute and percentage terms:
Chantilly: 2,856, +18, +1%
Oakton: 2,378, -28, -1%
Madison: 1,910, +44, +2%
Westfield: 3,171, -49, -2%
Herndon: 2,190, -82, -4%
Pretty darn good overall, wouldn't you say? Except...
South Lakes: 1,443, -240, -14%
Why is it that the enrollment for the school in the planned community is the only one that is a statistical outlier here in terms of being incorrect, almost four time as incorrect as the second largest variance?
I don't think your answers cited above address this:
Reston is an aging community.
> Aging is extremely predictable, and similar to Vienna etc.
Reston (SL pyramid) is has been built out for years, with the exception of high density development around the RTC - units that don't produce kids.
> Again, these developments were all known about in 2003, they weren't surprises.
Much of the housing in Reston does not attract families anymore, as housing standards have gotten bigger, people want garages, etc.
> Similar situation applies to Vienna, Waples Mill, etc. to varying degrees.
Families are attracted to new development.
> Again, the new developments were known in 2003
We have lost neighborhoods due to prior redistricting - this has been explained in detail on this post.
> Not in the last four years.
Areas around Reston that used to be farms were and still are being developed.
> This was all known in 2003.
My question still stands...what unpredicted change happened in the last four years in Reston to cause this change? The year I chose is not an anomoly, I just didn't want to type in the whole table, it's on the fcps.edu site if you want to check it yourself. If you back one year more, the projection for South Lakes was 1767, so the number that showed up is then off by more than 300, more than a typical elementary school...these people left the district for a reason.
Here is what people thought the enrollment for this school year would be at the various high schools in the study, using projection data from 2003 (four years ago):
Chantilly: 2,856
Oakton: 2,378
Madison: 1,866
Westfield: 3,220
Herndon: 2,272
South Lakes: 1,683
Here is the number of kids who actually showed up this year, with the difference in absolute and percentage terms:
Chantilly: 2,856, +18, +1%
Oakton: 2,378, -28, -1%
Madison: 1,910, +44, +2%
Westfield: 3,171, -49, -2%
Herndon: 2,190, -82, -4%
Pretty darn good overall, wouldn't you say? Except...
South Lakes: 1,443, -240, -14%
Why is it that the enrollment for the school in the planned community is the only one that is a statistical outlier here in terms of being incorrect, almost four time as incorrect as the second largest variance?
I don't think your answers cited above address this:
Reston is an aging community.
> Aging is extremely predictable, and similar to Vienna etc.
Reston (SL pyramid) is has been built out for years, with the exception of high density development around the RTC - units that don't produce kids.
> Again, these developments were all known about in 2003, they weren't surprises.
Much of the housing in Reston does not attract families anymore, as housing standards have gotten bigger, people want garages, etc.
> Similar situation applies to Vienna, Waples Mill, etc. to varying degrees.
Families are attracted to new development.
> Again, the new developments were known in 2003
We have lost neighborhoods due to prior redistricting - this has been explained in detail on this post.
> Not in the last four years.
Areas around Reston that used to be farms were and still are being developed.
> This was all known in 2003.
My question still stands...what unpredicted change happened in the last four years in Reston to cause this change? The year I chose is not an anomoly, I just didn't want to type in the whole table, it's on the fcps.edu site if you want to check it yourself. If you back one year more, the projection for South Lakes was 1767, so the number that showed up is then off by more than 300, more than a typical elementary school...these people left the district for a reason.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Exodus
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:36AM
Spanky rhymes with Wanky:
You moved; we won.
You moved; we won.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:43AM
If
> they are TRULY going to listen to what people said
> at the meeting, then two of the scenarios
> presented at the next meeting will be 1)no
> redistricting (but examination of other ways to
> bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets
> brought into the study. If you walked around and
> looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items
> were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came
> from every classroom.
Does anyone know when and where we can view the results of last night's meeting? I took a quick look on the FCPS website but didn't see anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 11:55AM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.
> they are TRULY going to listen to what people said
> at the meeting, then two of the scenarios
> presented at the next meeting will be 1)no
> redistricting (but examination of other ways to
> bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets
> brought into the study. If you walked around and
> looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items
> were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came
> from every classroom.
Does anyone know when and where we can view the results of last night's meeting? I took a quick look on the FCPS website but didn't see anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 11:55AM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 11:58AM
Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My question still stands...what unpredicted change
> happened in the last four years in Reston to cause
> this change? The year I chose is not an anomoly,
> I just didn't want to type in the whole table,
> it's on the fcps.edu site if you want to check it
> yourself. If you back one year more, the
> projection for South Lakes was 1767, so the number
> that showed up is then off by more than 300, more
> than a typical elementary school...these people
> left the district for a reason.
I can't provide an answer, other than to say that the projections by the SB aren't always right (e.g., Westfield and South County numbers way off).
I have read that neighborhoods typically have a 20-25 year turnover time, which coincides with families growing and the parents moving on. So every area experiences drops due to that. It takes time for neighborhoods to fill back up with children. I think that is happening in the older areas of Reston, such as Hunters Woods. Vienna probably had their drop several years ago, as the community is older than Reston. By virtue of the fact that Vienna is primarily single family residences, it is much easier for old houses to be scraped and new ones built. Additionally, lots are larger and garages can be easily added. Witness the regrowth in Vienna Woods.
Reston developments aren't as flexible. We have many more units per acre, and many are townhouses. It is a given fact that redevelopment is virtually impossible in a townhouse development. If you go into the HW area of Reston (single family homes) you will find that some redevelopment is taking place, one lot at a time.
Because of the impediments to making improvements and the relatively small percentage of single family homes in Reston, and the changes in housing standards, we have not attracted as many families. You should not extrapolate that this is primarily due to the reputation of South Lakes. I think it is a confluence of events.
Despite what some on this board have said, there are many residents paying taxes in Reston who do not demand services (read: school) from the County, and since 50% of the County's budget is devoted to schools, I would say that Reston pays its fair share, residentially.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My question still stands...what unpredicted change
> happened in the last four years in Reston to cause
> this change? The year I chose is not an anomoly,
> I just didn't want to type in the whole table,
> it's on the fcps.edu site if you want to check it
> yourself. If you back one year more, the
> projection for South Lakes was 1767, so the number
> that showed up is then off by more than 300, more
> than a typical elementary school...these people
> left the district for a reason.
I can't provide an answer, other than to say that the projections by the SB aren't always right (e.g., Westfield and South County numbers way off).
I have read that neighborhoods typically have a 20-25 year turnover time, which coincides with families growing and the parents moving on. So every area experiences drops due to that. It takes time for neighborhoods to fill back up with children. I think that is happening in the older areas of Reston, such as Hunters Woods. Vienna probably had their drop several years ago, as the community is older than Reston. By virtue of the fact that Vienna is primarily single family residences, it is much easier for old houses to be scraped and new ones built. Additionally, lots are larger and garages can be easily added. Witness the regrowth in Vienna Woods.
Reston developments aren't as flexible. We have many more units per acre, and many are townhouses. It is a given fact that redevelopment is virtually impossible in a townhouse development. If you go into the HW area of Reston (single family homes) you will find that some redevelopment is taking place, one lot at a time.
Because of the impediments to making improvements and the relatively small percentage of single family homes in Reston, and the changes in housing standards, we have not attracted as many families. You should not extrapolate that this is primarily due to the reputation of South Lakes. I think it is a confluence of events.
Despite what some on this board have said, there are many residents paying taxes in Reston who do not demand services (read: school) from the County, and since 50% of the County's budget is devoted to schools, I would say that Reston pays its fair share, residentially.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:04PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If
> > they are TRULY going to listen to what people
> said
> > at the meeting, then two of the scenarios
> > presented at the next meeting will be 1)no
> > redistricting (but examination of other ways to
> > bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley
> gets
> > brought into the study. If you walked around
> and
> > looked at the gallery afterwards, those two
> items
> > were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came
> > from every classroom.
>
> Does anyone know when and where we can view the
> results of last night's meeting? I took a quick
> look on the FCPS website but didn't see anything.
I'm not expecting it to be anytime soon. One of the technical questions asked in my room last night was how long it will take for them to correct the errors on the PowerPoint slides that did not show Crossfield as an Oakton Feeder and apparently another slide that had some numbers wrong. The answer we got from teh IT people was "a few days at least to get something like that fixed." If it takes days to get a school put onto a one slide, I'm not sure how long it might take to actually get data presented. One very interesting thing I noticed last night. When it was over I saw two or three people walking around taking pictures of all the pages. Someone wants to make sure the school board is honest, I guess.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If
> > they are TRULY going to listen to what people
> said
> > at the meeting, then two of the scenarios
> > presented at the next meeting will be 1)no
> > redistricting (but examination of other ways to
> > bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley
> gets
> > brought into the study. If you walked around
> and
> > looked at the gallery afterwards, those two
> items
> > were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came
> > from every classroom.
>
> Does anyone know when and where we can view the
> results of last night's meeting? I took a quick
> look on the FCPS website but didn't see anything.
I'm not expecting it to be anytime soon. One of the technical questions asked in my room last night was how long it will take for them to correct the errors on the PowerPoint slides that did not show Crossfield as an Oakton Feeder and apparently another slide that had some numbers wrong. The answer we got from teh IT people was "a few days at least to get something like that fixed." If it takes days to get a school put onto a one slide, I'm not sure how long it might take to actually get data presented. One very interesting thing I noticed last night. When it was over I saw two or three people walking around taking pictures of all the pages. Someone wants to make sure the school board is honest, I guess.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:09PM
As the downward trend in enrollment continues at SL, by 2013 there should be about 1000 students there. Since the surrounding school districts will also be underenrolled by then, its safe to say that the Westfields, Chantilly, Madison, Oakton, and Herndon schools could all absorb roughly 200 students.
The county could close SL, sell the land it's on, and reimburse the taxpayers and our children for wasting money on renovating the culinary arts wing.
The county could close SL, sell the land it's on, and reimburse the taxpayers and our children for wasting money on renovating the culinary arts wing.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
missing in action
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:16PM
I'm sorry your spouse felt intimidated at the large group session. Frankly, that session was poorly handled from the get go. You can't offer a question and answer session but refuse to answer questions. That said, I think the emotion brought forth at that meeting was a great representation fo just how emotionally committed peole are to their schools. That is only going to get worse if they continue with this. I think the next two meetings will be worse, frankly, because they get closer to the end. I think people also feel like this is a done deal anyway. I will say this. If they are TRULY going to listen to what people said at the meeting, then two of the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this wil get much more ugly before it gets nice. I was pleased with my small group, but that doesn't mean every group was that way. I guess I just got lucky.
----------------
I agreed with your assessment. This is a DONE deal and the so called "community input" is just a "charade". Unfortunately, I was sick last night and coudn't attend...but was dismayed to hear that there was a strong police presence at Chantilly. It seemed that the board was afraid that parents were going to mob them? This is deja vu from years ago. There will be NO input from us....they already know what they need to know. Stu doesn't listen to anybody.....I read someone mentioned that his neighbor received a hung up from Stu because he dared to ask about the boundaries. SO, don't expect any response from the board. It is really a waste of everyone's time to even attend these meetings, just publish whatever in the community newspaper and give us the 3 boundary scenarios already in the works so we know in advance....some people will move and some people will register their kids to private school. For me....it is a wait and see. AP courses are the driving force for our family regardless of the school.
----------------
I agreed with your assessment. This is a DONE deal and the so called "community input" is just a "charade". Unfortunately, I was sick last night and coudn't attend...but was dismayed to hear that there was a strong police presence at Chantilly. It seemed that the board was afraid that parents were going to mob them? This is deja vu from years ago. There will be NO input from us....they already know what they need to know. Stu doesn't listen to anybody.....I read someone mentioned that his neighbor received a hung up from Stu because he dared to ask about the boundaries. SO, don't expect any response from the board. It is really a waste of everyone's time to even attend these meetings, just publish whatever in the community newspaper and give us the 3 boundary scenarios already in the works so we know in advance....some people will move and some people will register their kids to private school. For me....it is a wait and see. AP courses are the driving force for our family regardless of the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:18PM
foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better than some of the alternatives" or "better than having hostile, bullying parents in the school", then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of the compromising.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better than some of the alternatives" or "better than having hostile, bullying parents in the school", then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of the compromising.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:29PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I think a magnet should be something that
> would
> > be
> > > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> > after
> > > all, our school you guys are tossing around
> like
> > a
> > > football.
> >
> > Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> > around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> > SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have
> more
> > good courses at your school? I'll be happy to
> stop
> > tossing your school around, just leave me and
> my
> > kids and neighbors out of this whole
> affair,deal?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should
> be
> > > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> > parents,
> > > right?
> >
> > Yes, but it might also involve some compromise.
> Or
> > do the people from the other schools have to do
> > all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
>
>
> OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes
> gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get
> everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes
> parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better
> than some of the alternatives" or "better than
> having hostile, bullying parents in the school",
> then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of
> the compromising.
I see your point and honestly can't come up with how a magnet would be a compromise for those of us who wouldn't have to move. However, it appears to me that it is down to who gets hurt most? Those who *have to have new courses added to their school and many kids HAPPILY and VOLUNTARILY coming into the school establishing a new school spirit and higher scores? Or those who have to move out of a school they have grown to love and consider to be a community?
So do we end up compromising in an effort to get South Lakes a nice magnet program? Not especially. But I do think that what we give up in the alternatives is so much greater that it can't even be quantified.
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I think a magnet should be something that
> would
> > be
> > > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> > after
> > > all, our school you guys are tossing around
> like
> > a
> > > football.
> >
> > Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> > around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> > SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have
> more
> > good courses at your school? I'll be happy to
> stop
> > tossing your school around, just leave me and
> my
> > kids and neighbors out of this whole
> affair,deal?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should
> be
> > > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> > parents,
> > > right?
> >
> > Yes, but it might also involve some compromise.
> Or
> > do the people from the other schools have to do
> > all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
>
>
> OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes
> gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get
> everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes
> parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better
> than some of the alternatives" or "better than
> having hostile, bullying parents in the school",
> then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of
> the compromising.
I see your point and honestly can't come up with how a magnet would be a compromise for those of us who wouldn't have to move. However, it appears to me that it is down to who gets hurt most? Those who *have to have new courses added to their school and many kids HAPPILY and VOLUNTARILY coming into the school establishing a new school spirit and higher scores? Or those who have to move out of a school they have grown to love and consider to be a community?
So do we end up compromising in an effort to get South Lakes a nice magnet program? Not especially. But I do think that what we give up in the alternatives is so much greater that it can't even be quantified.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:36PM
I think a magnet should be something that would be
> decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
> all, our school you guys are tossing around like a
> football.
Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be sitting there and you *will get more students and you *will get more resources, and you *will get higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be presented, including magnet school potential. YOU will not be uprooting and moving your kids from the school they love and have grown up loving, and yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous. The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to become of their teammates, their best friends, the relationships they have cultivated with their teachers and you are whining because people are trying to come up with a solution for your kids to get everything you say you want without potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people and YOU are tossed around?
> decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
> all, our school you guys are tossing around like a
> football.
Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be sitting there and you *will get more students and you *will get more resources, and you *will get higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be presented, including magnet school potential. YOU will not be uprooting and moving your kids from the school they love and have grown up loving, and yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous. The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to become of their teammates, their best friends, the relationships they have cultivated with their teachers and you are whining because people are trying to come up with a solution for your kids to get everything you say you want without potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people and YOU are tossed around?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:40PM
I for one do not support another magnet, particularly if it is a 'Western TJ,' as has been suggested. I personally don't like the brain drain out of our local schools. A magnet would likely fill up spaces and boost test scores, but it would not be as helpful to the community base.
South Lakes already houses the MMR program for this end of the County, and though we love those students, they comprise roughly 18% of our population. Those are kids who do not take IB classes/tests, do not play sports, do not participate in band, etc. They do affect our numbers. Would one of the surrounding schools accept them and the staff that accompanies them? I would consider that a possible compromise. Would all of you?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 12:42PM by SLVerity.
South Lakes already houses the MMR program for this end of the County, and though we love those students, they comprise roughly 18% of our population. Those are kids who do not take IB classes/tests, do not play sports, do not participate in band, etc. They do affect our numbers. Would one of the surrounding schools accept them and the staff that accompanies them? I would consider that a possible compromise. Would all of you?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 12:42PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:43PM
I am a future South Lakes parent (current Hunters Woods) and went to the meeting last night. With only one exception, all the parents handled their comments real well regarding their concerns and we all got along. One common thread was why isn't Langley included.
If they go with a magnet school:
My concerns are about how it would be implemented. The best approach would be for a TJ west, with the county adding the teachers/programs regardless of the number of students who initially sign up. That way the programs start to get implemented now and no one has to worry if they are going to go back on their word. It would take a commitment of budget dollars to do this, but it should pay off. The school gets the courses it needs and those in the western and northern parts of the county can go to a GT school closer to them. We would not get the benefit of broader community support, but it would be a way to get the teachers that are needed. My biggest concern is the following scenario: they promise a magnet school, then they do a poor job of implementation, the students don’t sign up, and nothing has changed.
If they go with a magnet school:
My concerns are about how it would be implemented. The best approach would be for a TJ west, with the county adding the teachers/programs regardless of the number of students who initially sign up. That way the programs start to get implemented now and no one has to worry if they are going to go back on their word. It would take a commitment of budget dollars to do this, but it should pay off. The school gets the courses it needs and those in the western and northern parts of the county can go to a GT school closer to them. We would not get the benefit of broader community support, but it would be a way to get the teachers that are needed. My biggest concern is the following scenario: they promise a magnet school, then they do a poor job of implementation, the students don’t sign up, and nothing has changed.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:44PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I think a magnet should be something that
> would
> > be
> > > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> > after
> > > all, our school you guys are tossing around
> like
> > a
> > > football.
> >
> > Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> > around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> > SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have
> more
> > good courses at your school? I'll be happy to
> stop
> > tossing your school around, just leave me and
> my
> > kids and neighbors out of this whole
> affair,deal?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should
> be
> > > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> > parents,
> > > right?
> >
> > Yes, but it might also involve some compromise.
> Or
> > do the people from the other schools have to do
> > all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
>
>
> OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes
> gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get
> everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes
> parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better
> than some of the alternatives" or "better than
> having hostile, bullying parents in the school",
> then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of
> the compromising.
I guess that depends on the nature of the magnet. I don't know all the possible scenarios, but it would be nice if we could all have some choice in this. I just don't see why a magnet is such a negative, it seems to me like it would be a positive development for the school. If it were a magnet that appealed to my kids' talents, I'd seriously consider sending them. I would think that the SL community would have a lot of input about what programs are in the school. Did you all want the culinary program? If not, then sorry. If so, then fine. It sounds like some SL parents are open to the magnet possibility. If you want people to want to come there, then make it attractive (not just a new building). Whether you think it's fair or not, most people don't want to right now. A magnet could change that.
Part of the problem here is that we are all trying to negotiate but at the end of the day we don't really know how much power we have, if any. Most non-SL parents want to stay put. I guess most SL parents want more students. If it were just between those two groups, we'd have more power because we have no incentive to change. Parents in my neighborhood who want to send their kids to SL can do it now by pupil placement.
In my opinion the real enemy is the school board because when all is said and done they will do whatever they want. However, it's possible that many families will not send their kids to SL, so you don't get what you want either. My reason for saying a magnet is a compromise is that you might actually get the number of kids you need. With redrawn boundaries, you might, you might not. At least with a magnet you'd get what I hope would be a desirable program.
Oh well, it probably doesn't matter because the evil school board thinks it knows best.
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I think a magnet should be something that
> would
> > be
> > > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> > after
> > > all, our school you guys are tossing around
> like
> > a
> > > football.
> >
> > Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> > around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> > SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have
> more
> > good courses at your school? I'll be happy to
> stop
> > tossing your school around, just leave me and
> my
> > kids and neighbors out of this whole
> affair,deal?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should
> be
> > > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> > parents,
> > > right?
> >
> > Yes, but it might also involve some compromise.
> Or
> > do the people from the other schools have to do
> > all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
>
>
> OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes
> gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get
> everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes
> parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better
> than some of the alternatives" or "better than
> having hostile, bullying parents in the school",
> then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of
> the compromising.
I guess that depends on the nature of the magnet. I don't know all the possible scenarios, but it would be nice if we could all have some choice in this. I just don't see why a magnet is such a negative, it seems to me like it would be a positive development for the school. If it were a magnet that appealed to my kids' talents, I'd seriously consider sending them. I would think that the SL community would have a lot of input about what programs are in the school. Did you all want the culinary program? If not, then sorry. If so, then fine. It sounds like some SL parents are open to the magnet possibility. If you want people to want to come there, then make it attractive (not just a new building). Whether you think it's fair or not, most people don't want to right now. A magnet could change that.
Part of the problem here is that we are all trying to negotiate but at the end of the day we don't really know how much power we have, if any. Most non-SL parents want to stay put. I guess most SL parents want more students. If it were just between those two groups, we'd have more power because we have no incentive to change. Parents in my neighborhood who want to send their kids to SL can do it now by pupil placement.
In my opinion the real enemy is the school board because when all is said and done they will do whatever they want. However, it's possible that many families will not send their kids to SL, so you don't get what you want either. My reason for saying a magnet is a compromise is that you might actually get the number of kids you need. With redrawn boundaries, you might, you might not. At least with a magnet you'd get what I hope would be a desirable program.
Oh well, it probably doesn't matter because the evil school board thinks it knows best.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Floris Parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:45PM
If somewhere between 600-700 new students start attending SLHS, and are taken out of other FCPS schools, has anyone addressed the issue of how to recruit new, outstanding teachers, who will be willing to step into such a heated, pressure-filled, and unknown situation? I know that there is already a teacher shortage in math, science, and foreign languages? How would that be resolved? Any thoughts, what has been heard, what has been discussed? Are there any rules within FCPS personnel regs that could force certain teachers to a new school or allow them to stay at their present school, ie tenure, subject taught, or other qualifications?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:45PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a magnet should be something that would be
>
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
>
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be
> sitting there and you *will get more students and
> you *will get more resources, and you *will get
> higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and
> reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be
> presented, including magnet school potential. YOU
> will not be uprooting and moving your kids from
> the school they love and have grown up loving, and
> yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a
> football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous.
> The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and
> Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to
> become of their teammates, their best friends, the
> relationships they have cultivated with their
> teachers and you are whining because people are
> trying to come up with a solution for your kids to
> get everything you say you want without
> potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people
> and YOU are tossed around?
We are not getting fewer ESOL and reduced lunch students. We have never suggested moving those kids to other schools. We don't want to bear the burden of any more disadvantaged kids, and it really would not be fair to move more in. I think you can understand the logic in that.
All we would be doing is adding more middle class families to the school.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a magnet should be something that would be
>
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
>
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be
> sitting there and you *will get more students and
> you *will get more resources, and you *will get
> higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and
> reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be
> presented, including magnet school potential. YOU
> will not be uprooting and moving your kids from
> the school they love and have grown up loving, and
> yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a
> football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous.
> The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and
> Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to
> become of their teammates, their best friends, the
> relationships they have cultivated with their
> teachers and you are whining because people are
> trying to come up with a solution for your kids to
> get everything you say you want without
> potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people
> and YOU are tossed around?
We are not getting fewer ESOL and reduced lunch students. We have never suggested moving those kids to other schools. We don't want to bear the burden of any more disadvantaged kids, and it really would not be fair to move more in. I think you can understand the logic in that.
All we would be doing is adding more middle class families to the school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:46PM
hmmmm7,
Thanks for understanding an SL point of view.
I think we all feel like footballs, that is the essence of the problem.
A TJ-like magnet--what would my bright but not brilliant kids get from that? Seriously, what would be the benefit to them? It would pull more teachers etc. away and they would end up with no more services than they have now. I'd rather have more bright-but-not-brilliant kids that they could hang with, etc, from nearby neighborhoods where they could maintain the friendships.
You should all understand that, that's what you say you want for your kids.
So, we all feel like footballs and we all want the same things for our kids. And no matter what the scenario, someone loses.
It's a zero sum game.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Thanks for understanding an SL point of view.
I think we all feel like footballs, that is the essence of the problem.
A TJ-like magnet--what would my bright but not brilliant kids get from that? Seriously, what would be the benefit to them? It would pull more teachers etc. away and they would end up with no more services than they have now. I'd rather have more bright-but-not-brilliant kids that they could hang with, etc, from nearby neighborhoods where they could maintain the friendships.
You should all understand that, that's what you say you want for your kids.
So, we all feel like footballs and we all want the same things for our kids. And no matter what the scenario, someone loses.
It's a zero sum game.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:51PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> high-priced high rises that are filled with DINKs
> and retirees.
Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not paying taxes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> high-priced high rises that are filled with DINKs
> and retirees.
Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not paying taxes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:52PM
Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If somewhere between 600-700 new students start
> attending SLHS, and are taken out of other FCPS
> schools, has anyone addressed the issue of how to
> recruit new, outstanding teachers, who will be
> willing to step into such a heated,
> pressure-filled, and unknown situation? I know
> that there is already a teacher shortage in math,
> science, and foreign languages? How would that be
> resolved? Any thoughts, what has been heard, what
> has been discussed? Are there any rules within
> FCPS personnel regs that could force certain
> teachers to a new school or allow them to stay at
> their present school, ie tenure, subject taught,
> or other qualifications?
SL has recruited great teachers over the last few years, and I don't think any scenario would be an impediment. If school enrollment drops, the formulas indicate that the school will lose teachers, but I think the only schools that will lose enrollment will be the overcrowded ones (Westfield, Chantilly). And please no comments about how they are really not overcrowded - it's been discussed here many times. I would bet that many teachers would consider relocating to SL. They would have an outstanding boss in Bruce Butler.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If somewhere between 600-700 new students start
> attending SLHS, and are taken out of other FCPS
> schools, has anyone addressed the issue of how to
> recruit new, outstanding teachers, who will be
> willing to step into such a heated,
> pressure-filled, and unknown situation? I know
> that there is already a teacher shortage in math,
> science, and foreign languages? How would that be
> resolved? Any thoughts, what has been heard, what
> has been discussed? Are there any rules within
> FCPS personnel regs that could force certain
> teachers to a new school or allow them to stay at
> their present school, ie tenure, subject taught,
> or other qualifications?
SL has recruited great teachers over the last few years, and I don't think any scenario would be an impediment. If school enrollment drops, the formulas indicate that the school will lose teachers, but I think the only schools that will lose enrollment will be the overcrowded ones (Westfield, Chantilly). And please no comments about how they are really not overcrowded - it's been discussed here many times. I would bet that many teachers would consider relocating to SL. They would have an outstanding boss in Bruce Butler.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:55PM
taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> > high-priced high rises that are filled with
> DINKs
> > and retirees.
>
> Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not
> paying taxes.
There are many high-priced condos in RTC. And someone has to own them and pay taxes on them, whether it's a landlord or homeowner.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> > high-priced high rises that are filled with
> DINKs
> > and retirees.
>
> Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not
> paying taxes.
There are many high-priced condos in RTC. And someone has to own them and pay taxes on them, whether it's a landlord or homeowner.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 12:55PM
taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> > high-priced high rises that are filled with
> DINKs
> > and retirees.
>
> Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not
> paying taxes.
So does that mean that the landlords don't have to pay taxes on the units? If that's the case, I'm running out right now to invest in some rental property.
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> > high-priced high rises that are filled with
> DINKs
> > and retirees.
>
> Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not
> paying taxes.
So does that mean that the landlords don't have to pay taxes on the units? If that's the case, I'm running out right now to invest in some rental property.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 01:08PM
Per my sugguestion on compromise, any takers for the MMR program in exchange for a magnet? I think it would have to be Oakton, since those parents say they will be under-enrolled in the next couple of years. Westfield would be another possibility, though, since they have the space and since these kids would not add to competition for sports, etc.
I'm not hearing a flood of responses so far.
Background on the MMR program: Each school used to house its own MMR program. One of the brilliant, yet cowardly ways that the school board addressed the issue of declining enrollment at SL in the past was to consolidate all of the surrounding programs into one school and put it at SL. Again, the kids are great, but it did not help our school in the ways that you all seem to value (e.g., test scores, sports team sizes, etc.).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:13PM by SLVerity.
I'm not hearing a flood of responses so far.
Background on the MMR program: Each school used to house its own MMR program. One of the brilliant, yet cowardly ways that the school board addressed the issue of declining enrollment at SL in the past was to consolidate all of the surrounding programs into one school and put it at SL. Again, the kids are great, but it did not help our school in the ways that you all seem to value (e.g., test scores, sports team sizes, etc.).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:13PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 01:11PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Per my sugguestion on compromise, any takers for
> the MMR program in exchange for a magnet? I think
> it would have to be Oakton, since those parents
> say they will be under-enrolled in the next couple
> of years. Westfield would be another possibility,
> though, since they have the space and since these
> kids would not add to competition for sports,
> etc.
>
> I'm not hearing a flood of responses so far.
Sorry, what's MMR?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Per my sugguestion on compromise, any takers for
> the MMR program in exchange for a magnet? I think
> it would have to be Oakton, since those parents
> say they will be under-enrolled in the next couple
> of years. Westfield would be another possibility,
> though, since they have the space and since these
> kids would not add to competition for sports,
> etc.
>
> I'm not hearing a flood of responses so far.
Sorry, what's MMR?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 01:16PM
Mildly Mentally Retarded, though I really should have used the correct term - Special Ed - the program also includes severely disabled (both mentally and physically) students and they come from other districts, including Oakton. They actually comprise 19.1% of our total population.
You may not have seen this prior edit so I am reposting:
Background on the MMR program: Each school used to house its own MMR program. One of the brilliant, yet cowardly ways that the school board addressed the issue of declining enrollment at SL in the past was to consolidate all of the surrounding programs into one school and put it at SL. Again, the kids are great, but it did not help our school in the ways that you all seem to value (e.g., test scores, sports team sizes, etc.).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:19PM by SLVerity.
You may not have seen this prior edit so I am reposting:
Background on the MMR program: Each school used to house its own MMR program. One of the brilliant, yet cowardly ways that the school board addressed the issue of declining enrollment at SL in the past was to consolidate all of the surrounding programs into one school and put it at SL. Again, the kids are great, but it did not help our school in the ways that you all seem to value (e.g., test scores, sports team sizes, etc.).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:19PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 01:25PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a magnet should be something that would be
>
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
>
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be
> sitting there and you *will get more students and
> you *will get more resources, and you *will get
> higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and
> reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be
> presented, including magnet school potential. YOU
> will not be uprooting and moving your kids from
> the school they love and have grown up loving, and
> yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a
> football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous.
> The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and
> Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to
> become of their teammates, their best friends, the
> relationships they have cultivated with their
> teachers and you are whining because people are
> trying to come up with a solution for your kids to
> get everything you say you want without
> potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people
> and YOU are tossed around?
Really, you don't understand how it feels to have other people who don't even go to your school talk about what's best for your school? Really? Wow, I find that very ironic.
Magnets sound great, but my experience at Hunters Woods has shown me that there are definite downsides.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:36PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a magnet should be something that would be
>
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
>
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be
> sitting there and you *will get more students and
> you *will get more resources, and you *will get
> higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and
> reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be
> presented, including magnet school potential. YOU
> will not be uprooting and moving your kids from
> the school they love and have grown up loving, and
> yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a
> football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous.
> The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and
> Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to
> become of their teammates, their best friends, the
> relationships they have cultivated with their
> teachers and you are whining because people are
> trying to come up with a solution for your kids to
> get everything you say you want without
> potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people
> and YOU are tossed around?
Really, you don't understand how it feels to have other people who don't even go to your school talk about what's best for your school? Really? Wow, I find that very ironic.
Magnets sound great, but my experience at Hunters Woods has shown me that there are definite downsides.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:36PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 01:29PM
The Fairfax enrollment stats show 200+ special ed kids at South Lakes, Chantilly, Westfield, and 197 at Oakton. That doesn't sound like multi-school consolidation...? Is this program something different? Numbers are a bit smaller at Herndon, McLean and Langley, in the 100-150 range.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 01:38PM
Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Fairfax enrollment stats show 200+ special ed
> kids at South Lakes, Chantilly, Westfield, and 197
> at Oakton. That doesn't sound like multi-school
> consolidation...? Is this program something
> different? Numbers are a bit smaller at Herndon,
> McLean and Langley, in the 100-150 range.
I just spoke with a staff person at South Lakes.
SL is a center receiving Mildly to Severely handicapped/mentally retarded students from other school districts, including Oakton and Herndon. Those schools may have Special Ed (e.g.,learning disabled, dyslexia), but do not include the types of students listed above.
If we are talking about adding a magnet at SL, which I don't really want, we will need to consider freeing up space so I think a fair compromise would be to move the center to another school in the vicinity.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 02:18PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Fairfax enrollment stats show 200+ special ed
> kids at South Lakes, Chantilly, Westfield, and 197
> at Oakton. That doesn't sound like multi-school
> consolidation...? Is this program something
> different? Numbers are a bit smaller at Herndon,
> McLean and Langley, in the 100-150 range.
I just spoke with a staff person at South Lakes.
SL is a center receiving Mildly to Severely handicapped/mentally retarded students from other school districts, including Oakton and Herndon. Those schools may have Special Ed (e.g.,learning disabled, dyslexia), but do not include the types of students listed above.
If we are talking about adding a magnet at SL, which I don't really want, we will need to consider freeing up space so I think a fair compromise would be to move the center to another school in the vicinity.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 02:18PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
mssing in action
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:00PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Special Ed can include kids who have
> learning disabilities, etc. Our program includes
> MMR to severely retarded and/or disabled students.
> Do the other schools have those students? I am
> sure SL pulls from other districts, since I have
> volunteered with a few kids from Oakton who are
> there and since I remember when the program was
> consolidated there.
>
> If anyone has additional information, please post
> it and correct any errors. I will also call the
> school to clarify.
>
> Regardless, if having those kids at our school
> poses an impediment to perhaps housing a magnet,
> then would any other surrounding school be willing
> to take them to free up space? I think its a fair
> question since we are all talking about
> compromise.
You are right. I know someone whose kid is autistic, and the school kid used to attend was not a good fit. However, ever since this child started attending SL, child is thriving. Parents know that child will never be college material, but will be learning a trade that will let child be a productive member of society (I neutralize gender because I don't want to put them on the spot). They told me that SL is the best thing that came along at this juncture of their lives, but I have to agree that it is not fair to house all MMRs in SL because it hurts chances of getting programs better suited for the future. ie., redistricting.
I believe that FCPS should create a specific school to address MMR issues providing training and trade ocupation to them, so it will not drain resources at the various schools. On the other hand,at one point MMRs must integrate into society, so I can also see why parents with special needs kids would want them to have a feel of normalcy. It is a very touchy subject with no definitive answers.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Special Ed can include kids who have
> learning disabilities, etc. Our program includes
> MMR to severely retarded and/or disabled students.
> Do the other schools have those students? I am
> sure SL pulls from other districts, since I have
> volunteered with a few kids from Oakton who are
> there and since I remember when the program was
> consolidated there.
>
> If anyone has additional information, please post
> it and correct any errors. I will also call the
> school to clarify.
>
> Regardless, if having those kids at our school
> poses an impediment to perhaps housing a magnet,
> then would any other surrounding school be willing
> to take them to free up space? I think its a fair
> question since we are all talking about
> compromise.
You are right. I know someone whose kid is autistic, and the school kid used to attend was not a good fit. However, ever since this child started attending SL, child is thriving. Parents know that child will never be college material, but will be learning a trade that will let child be a productive member of society (I neutralize gender because I don't want to put them on the spot). They told me that SL is the best thing that came along at this juncture of their lives, but I have to agree that it is not fair to house all MMRs in SL because it hurts chances of getting programs better suited for the future. ie., redistricting.
I believe that FCPS should create a specific school to address MMR issues providing training and trade ocupation to them, so it will not drain resources at the various schools. On the other hand,at one point MMRs must integrate into society, so I can also see why parents with special needs kids would want them to have a feel of normalcy. It is a very touchy subject with no definitive answers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:07PM
mssing in action Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I believe that FCPS should create a specific
> school to address MMR issues providing training
> and trade ocupation to them, so it will not drain
> resources at the various schools. On the other
> hand,at one point MMRs must integrate into
> society, so I can also see why parents with
> special needs kids would want them to have a feel
> of normalcy. It is a very touchy subject with no
> definitive answers.
Agreed. Notice I say that we like these kids and I do think that having them in our school has some positives for them and the other kids, but are we really supposed to bear the burden for other disticts, as well as for educating a larger percentage of disadvantaged kids that the County concentrated here.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I believe that FCPS should create a specific
> school to address MMR issues providing training
> and trade ocupation to them, so it will not drain
> resources at the various schools. On the other
> hand,at one point MMRs must integrate into
> society, so I can also see why parents with
> special needs kids would want them to have a feel
> of normalcy. It is a very touchy subject with no
> definitive answers.
Agreed. Notice I say that we like these kids and I do think that having them in our school has some positives for them and the other kids, but are we really supposed to bear the burden for other disticts, as well as for educating a larger percentage of disadvantaged kids that the County concentrated here.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:09PM
SLVerity,
I'm sure someone would trade a couple MMRs for one first chair oboe, the captain of the cheerleading squad, and possibly a jewelry making elective.
I think you have a typo on your post about the percentage of SL population with MMR. It should read 99.1%, not 19.1%.
You are a football.
I'm sure someone would trade a couple MMRs for one first chair oboe, the captain of the cheerleading squad, and possibly a jewelry making elective.
I think you have a typo on your post about the percentage of SL population with MMR. It should read 99.1%, not 19.1%.
You are a football.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:14PM
'panky, I congratulate you on reaching third grade level.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
mssing in action
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:22PM
Spanky:
I know this is a public forum, but there is no need to be disrespectul. We all have "creative" differences and come from all walks of life. I can see both sides of the equation because we are all in this "hole" together, whether we like it or not.....And I am not part of the SL group...yet. So I am not taking sides, and it is very unfortunately that I got sick and couldn't attend yesterday's meeting..... But looking forward to meet you at any of the meetings.
I know this is a public forum, but there is no need to be disrespectul. We all have "creative" differences and come from all walks of life. I can see both sides of the equation because we are all in this "hole" together, whether we like it or not.....And I am not part of the SL group...yet. So I am not taking sides, and it is very unfortunately that I got sick and couldn't attend yesterday's meeting..... But looking forward to meet you at any of the meetings.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:28PM
More input/opinions
So you can put my comments into perspective - most of my friends/neighbors who are districted to SLHS live in NORTH RESTON and VIENNA. Many of us are NOT PART OF Reston Association. Please don't pigeon hole Reston. We are no longer even part of the Small Tax District that pays for the Reston Community Center... New housing in Reston, like that in Town Center, isn't necesssarily part of RA. All the land in Reston that is available for single family development is built out.
Comments from the breakouts -
1) At our breakout last night, everyone was calm and reasonable. Our moderator lost control so we lost the organizational clarity that would have helped us focus. We had 5-6 SL people including one student. Maybe that's why no one was nasty, they were too embarrassed to be childish in front of the child. No SL people in our group agreed with the magnet concept.
2) everyone in our group thought (duh) that Reston/Herndon kids who go to Forestville should go to Herndon and Reston. How to get that done is the big question?
3) the most clarity came from a parent NOT from SL who pointed to the Oakton boundaries on the map and said - "that's some messed up boundary! Why would some kids (Fox Mill and Crossfield) drive all the way to Oakton? They live in Herndon, not Oakton."
4) in developing scenarios, ALL of us agreed that proximity to the high school, driving distance/safety/sleep of the students was paramount. NO ONE in my group thought it was safe for teens to be driving from Herndon to Oakton at 7:00am in the morning. Sorry Fox Mill and Crossfields parents - this is what was said by Westfield, Chantilly, and Oakton parents.
5) no one wants to harm another school, ie Herndon by moving out high end RESTON students (Aldrin) without replacing them with like.
6) Madison Island is a no brainer.
7) One Oakton parent thought it was hard to have her above average kid at Oakton where they aren't in the top, by class rank.
Here's what we all agreed on:
add AP to supplement IB
Grandfather
minimize drive time/choose schools by proximity
ADD LANGLEY
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 02:41PM by Old Timer.
So you can put my comments into perspective - most of my friends/neighbors who are districted to SLHS live in NORTH RESTON and VIENNA. Many of us are NOT PART OF Reston Association. Please don't pigeon hole Reston. We are no longer even part of the Small Tax District that pays for the Reston Community Center... New housing in Reston, like that in Town Center, isn't necesssarily part of RA. All the land in Reston that is available for single family development is built out.
Comments from the breakouts -
1) At our breakout last night, everyone was calm and reasonable. Our moderator lost control so we lost the organizational clarity that would have helped us focus. We had 5-6 SL people including one student. Maybe that's why no one was nasty, they were too embarrassed to be childish in front of the child. No SL people in our group agreed with the magnet concept.
2) everyone in our group thought (duh) that Reston/Herndon kids who go to Forestville should go to Herndon and Reston. How to get that done is the big question?
3) the most clarity came from a parent NOT from SL who pointed to the Oakton boundaries on the map and said - "that's some messed up boundary! Why would some kids (Fox Mill and Crossfield) drive all the way to Oakton? They live in Herndon, not Oakton."
4) in developing scenarios, ALL of us agreed that proximity to the high school, driving distance/safety/sleep of the students was paramount. NO ONE in my group thought it was safe for teens to be driving from Herndon to Oakton at 7:00am in the morning. Sorry Fox Mill and Crossfields parents - this is what was said by Westfield, Chantilly, and Oakton parents.
5) no one wants to harm another school, ie Herndon by moving out high end RESTON students (Aldrin) without replacing them with like.
6) Madison Island is a no brainer.
7) One Oakton parent thought it was hard to have her above average kid at Oakton where they aren't in the top, by class rank.
Here's what we all agreed on:
add AP to supplement IB
Grandfather
minimize drive time/choose schools by proximity
ADD LANGLEY
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 02:41PM by Old Timer.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:32PM
Sounds like you were in a great group, Old Timer. I am heartened to hear it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Floris Parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:55PM
SLVerity:
Thanks for the comment about recruiting teachers, but the sheer logisitcs of being able to recruit that many qualified teachers cannot be underestimated. Interesting point about having a great boss. I have heard wonderful things about the principal, but if he is so wonderful, as many on this post have said, aren't we running a risk that he could be tapped for another (higher) position? There does seem to be a trend in education that when you get results, you get shifted around. I just don't feel comfortable with saying "So and so is a wonderful principal, everything will work out." It's putting too much trust in one person/one position to make sure that everything goes as planned.
Thanks for the comment about recruiting teachers, but the sheer logisitcs of being able to recruit that many qualified teachers cannot be underestimated. Interesting point about having a great boss. I have heard wonderful things about the principal, but if he is so wonderful, as many on this post have said, aren't we running a risk that he could be tapped for another (higher) position? There does seem to be a trend in education that when you get results, you get shifted around. I just don't feel comfortable with saying "So and so is a wonderful principal, everything will work out." It's putting too much trust in one person/one position to make sure that everything goes as planned.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 13, 2007 02:59PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chantilly mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be
> > redistricted to SL will lose value because SL
> does
> > not have the same reputation as Oakton
> Westfield
> > or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even
> right,
> > but it is reality.
>
> Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and those at
> Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as everyone
> likes to say, then why would they not improve the
> reputation of SL if they were to attend?
I am not saying that anyone or any school is superior...
I'm sorry you have difficulty dealing with reality.
Like it or not, real estate values of the homes effected would drop.... People have their favorite schools and they buy homes where their kids can go to those schools.
SL may be a great school and may very well be "better" than Oakton, Chantilly or Westfield.. but that does not matter if the perception of the school is that it is not as good or not as sought after or the test scores are lower.
Homes in fairfax county cost over 600,000 and when people spend that kind of money they buy on perception & reputation
the reality is harsh, but it's the reality...
People will buy homes in areas where the schools reputations are good.. If there is a choice between a 800,000 home in SL SD in chantilly and a 800,000 home in chantilly in Oakton SD.. which do you think will sell faster?
you can talk about ap classes, honors, IB's all that is BULL
this is about real estate values and people having the freedom to buy into the school district of their choice without having the fear of being sent to a school that will not only lower the value of their home but force their children to leave their friends.
now if that reality makes you feel that people think that they're superior to you, then this area has gottten to you and you now have insecurity issues.
-------------------------------------------------------
> chantilly mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be
> > redistricted to SL will lose value because SL
> does
> > not have the same reputation as Oakton
> Westfield
> > or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even
> right,
> > but it is reality.
>
> Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and those at
> Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as everyone
> likes to say, then why would they not improve the
> reputation of SL if they were to attend?
I am not saying that anyone or any school is superior...
I'm sorry you have difficulty dealing with reality.
Like it or not, real estate values of the homes effected would drop.... People have their favorite schools and they buy homes where their kids can go to those schools.
SL may be a great school and may very well be "better" than Oakton, Chantilly or Westfield.. but that does not matter if the perception of the school is that it is not as good or not as sought after or the test scores are lower.
Homes in fairfax county cost over 600,000 and when people spend that kind of money they buy on perception & reputation
the reality is harsh, but it's the reality...
People will buy homes in areas where the schools reputations are good.. If there is a choice between a 800,000 home in SL SD in chantilly and a 800,000 home in chantilly in Oakton SD.. which do you think will sell faster?
you can talk about ap classes, honors, IB's all that is BULL
this is about real estate values and people having the freedom to buy into the school district of their choice without having the fear of being sent to a school that will not only lower the value of their home but force their children to leave their friends.
now if that reality makes you feel that people think that they're superior to you, then this area has gottten to you and you now have insecurity issues.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:12PM
spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I'm sure someone would trade a couple MMRs for one
> first chair oboe, the captain of the cheerleading
> squad, and possibly a jewelry making elective.
>
> I think you have a typo on your post about the
> percentage of SL population with MMR. It should
> read 99.1%, not 19.1%.
>
> You are a football.
Have another cocktail, Spanky.
Is that #11, or #12? Geez, what a knucklehead.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I'm sure someone would trade a couple MMRs for one
> first chair oboe, the captain of the cheerleading
> squad, and possibly a jewelry making elective.
>
> I think you have a typo on your post about the
> percentage of SL population with MMR. It should
> read 99.1%, not 19.1%.
>
> You are a football.
Have another cocktail, Spanky.
Is that #11, or #12? Geez, what a knucklehead.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:17PM
chantilly mom -
I'm curious as to what you are worried about. I can't imagine a scenario where a Chantilly school would go to South Lakes.
After the redistricting, all the schools in the study area will be approximately the same.
I'm curious as to what you are worried about. I can't imagine a scenario where a Chantilly school would go to South Lakes.
After the redistricting, all the schools in the study area will be approximately the same.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:23PM
Chantilly Mom.
Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and that is the way it should be. Personally, I just want better resources for SL. It is unfortunate that the county is handling this the way it is.
Quick Question: You said you bought into a "school district" - my understanding is that you did not. You bought into an existing "school boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know you still don't want to move, but there is a big differance between the two.
Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and that is the way it should be. Personally, I just want better resources for SL. It is unfortunate that the county is handling this the way it is.
Quick Question: You said you bought into a "school district" - my understanding is that you did not. You bought into an existing "school boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know you still don't want to move, but there is a big differance between the two.
Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Islander
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:27PM
There seems to be a consensus among many in last nights break out sessions that the Madison Island should go. Someone on this post calls it a no brainer. The students in Madison Island that face redistricting represent less than 100 in grades K-12. The high school students are less than 30. So why the push to redistrict this area? Why did the speakers at Chantilly spend so much time on it in their opening statements? There is an ancient strategy that tells us Avoid Strength, Attack Weakness: Strike Where the Enemy Is Most Vulnerable. The Madison Island area represents the smallest and probably due to it's size the weakest group. There is a reason to position Madison as the first to fall, because it is the easiest target. It seems there are more opinions regarding who should be redistricted than there are about whether there is a legitimate reason for redistricting to begin with. Those of us with children facing a forced change from the communities they have grown up in would be best served to stand together and demand evidence that redistricting is necessary.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:28PM
Chantilly Mom-
Can you please site some specific examples for COMPARABLE housing between Reston and Chantilly and disparities in value. I would imagine that there are many homes in your area that don't bring top-dollar. I won't mention them, so as not to offend, but they are hardly desirable in today's market.
All I am saying about the reputation, is have faith in yourself and your kids and your ability to affect the reputation of any school you attend. I remember when North Point kids were redistricted to Herndon from South Lakes. Many did not want to move because of the 'inferior' reputation that Herndon had at the time. Look how Herndon has gained ground as a result of having those North Point kids. If that is not the case, they would not be fighting to retain Aldrin and Armstrong in their district. Why does anyone think they were moved to Herndon in the first place?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 03:31PM by SLVerity.
Can you please site some specific examples for COMPARABLE housing between Reston and Chantilly and disparities in value. I would imagine that there are many homes in your area that don't bring top-dollar. I won't mention them, so as not to offend, but they are hardly desirable in today's market.
All I am saying about the reputation, is have faith in yourself and your kids and your ability to affect the reputation of any school you attend. I remember when North Point kids were redistricted to Herndon from South Lakes. Many did not want to move because of the 'inferior' reputation that Herndon had at the time. Look how Herndon has gained ground as a result of having those North Point kids. If that is not the case, they would not be fighting to retain Aldrin and Armstrong in their district. Why does anyone think they were moved to Herndon in the first place?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 03:31PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:35PM
SLHS Padre,
I was merely responding to one of your own (SL Verity) posted at 1:08 today. He/she/it was the one that was asking anyone if they wanted to trade MMRs for a magnet program.
Here's an idea. Why don't you SL parents form an on-line fantasy school district. That way you can trade students in and out of as many schools as you want, and attract all the best programs to your school. Maybe you can even turn out a few chefs in your new culinary arts wing (thats hilarious).
In five years, the real SL will still be a failure because of folks like you.
I was merely responding to one of your own (SL Verity) posted at 1:08 today. He/she/it was the one that was asking anyone if they wanted to trade MMRs for a magnet program.
Here's an idea. Why don't you SL parents form an on-line fantasy school district. That way you can trade students in and out of as many schools as you want, and attract all the best programs to your school. Maybe you can even turn out a few chefs in your new culinary arts wing (thats hilarious).
In five years, the real SL will still be a failure because of folks like you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Closer to Chantilly but not quite
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:42PM
...perhaps she lives on the edge of the boundaries....like me.
When we first bought our house 16 years ago, we used to go to Oakton, not Chantilly or Herndon, and it never made any sense to us why we had to go to Oakton when Chantilly was closer....instead we were redistricted to Westfield, which by the way, we like a lot.
Years ago, we went to a "community" input meeting when the powers that be split one neighborhood in half, if you live on the right side of the street you went to Floris and the cross-the-street neighbord went to Foxmill....meaning that one set of kids went to Oakton and the other to Westfield within the same street...so I can see why she should be worried....not to take sides with her, but perceptions is what have people moving into specific neighborhoods. No matter how they paint SL and how wonderful the new principal is....the reality is that perceptions run high around here. And if you are paying over 600k for a house, you expect to go to a "nice" school with "good programs" our tax money can pay for.
We have a lot of wishful listings as what we want for the boundaries, but the reality is that the board already made their minds, and it seems to me that the community inputs is the exercise that we all have to go through...just like a few years ago. Take a look at the last boundary study and results were the same....people were passionate about it and what happened? They moved the kids regardless of what made sense....and a year later moved them back.
When we first bought our house 16 years ago, we used to go to Oakton, not Chantilly or Herndon, and it never made any sense to us why we had to go to Oakton when Chantilly was closer....instead we were redistricted to Westfield, which by the way, we like a lot.
Years ago, we went to a "community" input meeting when the powers that be split one neighborhood in half, if you live on the right side of the street you went to Floris and the cross-the-street neighbord went to Foxmill....meaning that one set of kids went to Oakton and the other to Westfield within the same street...so I can see why she should be worried....not to take sides with her, but perceptions is what have people moving into specific neighborhoods. No matter how they paint SL and how wonderful the new principal is....the reality is that perceptions run high around here. And if you are paying over 600k for a house, you expect to go to a "nice" school with "good programs" our tax money can pay for.
We have a lot of wishful listings as what we want for the boundaries, but the reality is that the board already made their minds, and it seems to me that the community inputs is the exercise that we all have to go through...just like a few years ago. Take a look at the last boundary study and results were the same....people were passionate about it and what happened? They moved the kids regardless of what made sense....and a year later moved them back.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:43PM
3) the most clarity came from a parent NOT from SL who pointed to the Oakton boundaries on the map and said - "that's some messed up boundary! Why would some kids (Fox Mill and Crossfield) drive all the way to Oakton? They live in Herndon, not Oakton."
>>
The history behind this district is pretty simple. Oakton, Madison and Fairfax are all within 2-3 miles of each other. Fairfax draws from towards the beltway and it is underenrolled. Madison draws from Vienna, and always has been the hometown school for Vienna. Oakton draws then from the west. In order to fill that school, they have to go way out because "Oakton proper" is houses on very large lots and is not very dense. You want to take Fox Mill and Crossfield? Fine. But that will leave Oakton with about 1/3 of what it has now. Then where is the problem? I've had a kid go through Oakton and one who drives there now. Not a problem. As a matter of fact, they have alot more driving experience for kids their age because of it.
In one of the scenarios, either Crossfield or Fox Mill go to SL and Navy comes to Oakton. If people are so concerned with proximity, how does it make sense for a neighborhood directly across from the Greenbriar Shopping Center and next to International Country Club to go to Oakton when they can, as one person in our group explained "hit a good three iron shot from" the front yard to Chantilly?
>>
The history behind this district is pretty simple. Oakton, Madison and Fairfax are all within 2-3 miles of each other. Fairfax draws from towards the beltway and it is underenrolled. Madison draws from Vienna, and always has been the hometown school for Vienna. Oakton draws then from the west. In order to fill that school, they have to go way out because "Oakton proper" is houses on very large lots and is not very dense. You want to take Fox Mill and Crossfield? Fine. But that will leave Oakton with about 1/3 of what it has now. Then where is the problem? I've had a kid go through Oakton and one who drives there now. Not a problem. As a matter of fact, they have alot more driving experience for kids their age because of it.
In one of the scenarios, either Crossfield or Fox Mill go to SL and Navy comes to Oakton. If people are so concerned with proximity, how does it make sense for a neighborhood directly across from the Greenbriar Shopping Center and next to International Country Club to go to Oakton when they can, as one person in our group explained "hit a good three iron shot from" the front yard to Chantilly?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:43PM
Islander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There seems to be a consensus among many in last
> nights break out sessions that the Madison Island
> should go. Someone on this post calls it a no
> brainer. The students in Madison Island that face
> redistricting represent less than 100 in grades
> K-12. The high school students are less than 30.
> So why the push to redistrict this area? Why did
> the speakers at Chantilly spend so much time on it
> in their opening statements?
I think they were referring to all of MADISON not just the island. They are concerned that all surrounding schools like Madison and Langley aren't in the study. From a demographic standpoint, Madison and Langley have effectively zero free and reduced lunch. Since there are no title 1 schools ie poor in the Madison boundary AND they border SLHS, it seems like they could have been included.
I called it a no-brainer. While I understand that you don't want to be redistricted, look objectively at your boundary. Have you heard from anyone outside your small group that thinks your boundary makes sense?
Redistricting you also sets up all the undeveloped area along Hunter Mill especially the HUGE $2 million dollar Renaissance homes currently being built to go to SLHS.
-------------------------------------------------------
> There seems to be a consensus among many in last
> nights break out sessions that the Madison Island
> should go. Someone on this post calls it a no
> brainer. The students in Madison Island that face
> redistricting represent less than 100 in grades
> K-12. The high school students are less than 30.
> So why the push to redistrict this area? Why did
> the speakers at Chantilly spend so much time on it
> in their opening statements?
I think they were referring to all of MADISON not just the island. They are concerned that all surrounding schools like Madison and Langley aren't in the study. From a demographic standpoint, Madison and Langley have effectively zero free and reduced lunch. Since there are no title 1 schools ie poor in the Madison boundary AND they border SLHS, it seems like they could have been included.
I called it a no-brainer. While I understand that you don't want to be redistricted, look objectively at your boundary. Have you heard from anyone outside your small group that thinks your boundary makes sense?
Redistricting you also sets up all the undeveloped area along Hunter Mill especially the HUGE $2 million dollar Renaissance homes currently being built to go to SLHS.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:47PM
In five years, we (the sane ones from SLHS, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Madison, etc.) will still be shaking our heads as we watch you try to insult everyone who "lets you down" while you go to your fourth or fifth school to find a proper fit for little jimmy/jimietta or whatever "it" is you call your kid.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:52PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3) the most clarity came from a parent NOT from SL
> who pointed to the Oakton boundaries on the map
> and said - "that's some messed up boundary! Why
> would some kids (Fox Mill and Crossfield) drive
> all the way to Oakton? They live in Herndon, not
> Oakton."
> >>
>
> The history behind this district is pretty simple.
> Oakton, Madison and Fairfax are all within 2-3
> miles of each other. Fairfax draws from towards
> the beltway and it is underenrolled. Madison
> draws from Vienna, and always has been the
> hometown school for Vienna. Oakton draws then
> from the west. In order to fill that school, they
> have to go way out because "Oakton proper" is
> houses on very large lots and is not very dense.
> You want to take Fox Mill and Crossfield? Fine.
> But that will leave Oakton with about 1/3 of what
> it has now. Then where is the problem? I've had
> a kid go through Oakton and one who drives there
> now. Not a problem. As a matter of fact, they
> have alot more driving experience for kids their
> age because of it.
>
> In one of the scenarios, either Crossfield or Fox
> Mill go to SL and Navy comes to Oakton. If people
> are so concerned with proximity, how does it make
> sense for a neighborhood directly across from the
> Greenbriar Shopping Center and next to
> International Country Club to go to Oakton when
> they can, as one person in our group explained
> "hit a good three iron shot from" the front yard
> to Chantilly?
Funny, why did Oakton get to draw their boundary way out here, when little old SL was right here with declining enrollment. Was it because at the time those boundaries were drawn Oakton may have been suffering from declining enrollment due to aging older districts and needed to expand their base? It's funny that other districts surrounding us have been able to benefit from new development in Fairfax County, but an arbitrary boundary was put up around South Reston. All of the new homes along Hunter Mill Road are much closer to South Lakes, yet those kids go to Madison. Are you going to tell me that there were no politics in play?
Many seem to think they are being screwed by the SB. Has SL been screwed in the past? Was SL screwed when North Point was sent to Herndon? You betcha. Was SL screwed when areas this side of Route 7 were districted to Langley? You betcha. I can provide more examples, if you like, but I've already done so earlier and repeating gets tedious.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 04:02PM by SLVerity.
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3) the most clarity came from a parent NOT from SL
> who pointed to the Oakton boundaries on the map
> and said - "that's some messed up boundary! Why
> would some kids (Fox Mill and Crossfield) drive
> all the way to Oakton? They live in Herndon, not
> Oakton."
> >>
>
> The history behind this district is pretty simple.
> Oakton, Madison and Fairfax are all within 2-3
> miles of each other. Fairfax draws from towards
> the beltway and it is underenrolled. Madison
> draws from Vienna, and always has been the
> hometown school for Vienna. Oakton draws then
> from the west. In order to fill that school, they
> have to go way out because "Oakton proper" is
> houses on very large lots and is not very dense.
> You want to take Fox Mill and Crossfield? Fine.
> But that will leave Oakton with about 1/3 of what
> it has now. Then where is the problem? I've had
> a kid go through Oakton and one who drives there
> now. Not a problem. As a matter of fact, they
> have alot more driving experience for kids their
> age because of it.
>
> In one of the scenarios, either Crossfield or Fox
> Mill go to SL and Navy comes to Oakton. If people
> are so concerned with proximity, how does it make
> sense for a neighborhood directly across from the
> Greenbriar Shopping Center and next to
> International Country Club to go to Oakton when
> they can, as one person in our group explained
> "hit a good three iron shot from" the front yard
> to Chantilly?
Funny, why did Oakton get to draw their boundary way out here, when little old SL was right here with declining enrollment. Was it because at the time those boundaries were drawn Oakton may have been suffering from declining enrollment due to aging older districts and needed to expand their base? It's funny that other districts surrounding us have been able to benefit from new development in Fairfax County, but an arbitrary boundary was put up around South Reston. All of the new homes along Hunter Mill Road are much closer to South Lakes, yet those kids go to Madison. Are you going to tell me that there were no politics in play?
Many seem to think they are being screwed by the SB. Has SL been screwed in the past? Was SL screwed when North Point was sent to Herndon? You betcha. Was SL screwed when areas this side of Route 7 were districted to Langley? You betcha. I can provide more examples, if you like, but I've already done so earlier and repeating gets tedious.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 04:02PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:59PM
I think 'panky is an anti-chefite. He/she/it sure shows a lot of animosity toward chefs and the culinary arts. Perhaps his mother came after him with a butcher knife when he was little, or something. My brother is a very successful chef, so I take offense at the constant belittling of the profession. /sarcasm off
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Old Timer
()
Date: November 13, 2007 03:59PM
Closer to Chantilly but not quite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...perhaps she lives on the edge of the
> boundaries....like me.
>
>
> And if you are paying over 600k for a house, you
> expect to go to a "nice" school with "good
> programs" our tax money can pay for.
>
You may be surprised to know that many SLHS homes are worth significantly more than $600k - Not that that has ANYTHING to do with this,
But we too want "good programs."
We don't care about the 33% free and reduced lunch (the county average of 20% would be nice), the diverse population (looks like the real world), we don't care about the MMR program (teaches empathy and compassion), we don't care about non-competitive sports teams and music groups - our kids get to be first chair, they get to make the team and actually play on the field (ok the teams stink because there are less #s to draw from but at least they beat TJ).
WE CARE ABOUT ACADEMICS.
And it was very clear from the briefing that our students are disenfranchised and not offered the same academics as those from neighhboring schools. No high level courses, combined language classes and music classes from one of the top school districts in the nation - a FAIRFAX COUNTY school - is just NOT RIGHT.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...perhaps she lives on the edge of the
> boundaries....like me.
>
>
> And if you are paying over 600k for a house, you
> expect to go to a "nice" school with "good
> programs" our tax money can pay for.
>
You may be surprised to know that many SLHS homes are worth significantly more than $600k - Not that that has ANYTHING to do with this,
But we too want "good programs."
We don't care about the 33% free and reduced lunch (the county average of 20% would be nice), the diverse population (looks like the real world), we don't care about the MMR program (teaches empathy and compassion), we don't care about non-competitive sports teams and music groups - our kids get to be first chair, they get to make the team and actually play on the field (ok the teams stink because there are less #s to draw from but at least they beat TJ).
WE CARE ABOUT ACADEMICS.
And it was very clear from the briefing that our students are disenfranchised and not offered the same academics as those from neighhboring schools. No high level courses, combined language classes and music classes from one of the top school districts in the nation - a FAIRFAX COUNTY school - is just NOT RIGHT.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:04PM
Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Closer to Chantilly but not quite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...perhaps she lives on the edge of the
> > boundaries....like me.
> >
> >
> > And if you are paying over 600k for a house,
> you
> > expect to go to a "nice" school with "good
> > programs" our tax money can pay for.
> >
>
> You may be surprised to know that many SLHS homes
> are worth significantly more than $600k - Not that
> that has ANYTHING to do with this,
>
> But we too want "good programs."
>
> We don't care about the 33% free and reduced lunch
> (the county average of 20% would be nice), the
> diverse population (looks like the real world), we
> don't care about the MMR program (teaches empathy
> and compassion), we don't care about
> non-competitive sports teams and music groups -
> our kids get to be first chair, they get to make
> the team and actually play on the field (ok the
> teams stink because there are less #s to draw from
> but at least they beat TJ).
>
> WE CARE ABOUT ACADEMICS.
>
> And it was very clear from the briefing that our
> students are disenfranchised and not offered the
> same academics as those from neighhboring schools.
> No high level courses, combined language classes
> and music classes from one of the top school
> districts in the nation - a FAIRFAX COUNTY school
> - is just NOT RIGHT.
So it is okay that Falls Church, Mt. Vernon, JEB Stuart, West Potomac, and probably a few more schools are not offering the jewelry making classes since they aren't surrounded by larger schools from which they can take students? THey are in FAIRFAX COUNTY as well.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Closer to Chantilly but not quite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...perhaps she lives on the edge of the
> > boundaries....like me.
> >
> >
> > And if you are paying over 600k for a house,
> you
> > expect to go to a "nice" school with "good
> > programs" our tax money can pay for.
> >
>
> You may be surprised to know that many SLHS homes
> are worth significantly more than $600k - Not that
> that has ANYTHING to do with this,
>
> But we too want "good programs."
>
> We don't care about the 33% free and reduced lunch
> (the county average of 20% would be nice), the
> diverse population (looks like the real world), we
> don't care about the MMR program (teaches empathy
> and compassion), we don't care about
> non-competitive sports teams and music groups -
> our kids get to be first chair, they get to make
> the team and actually play on the field (ok the
> teams stink because there are less #s to draw from
> but at least they beat TJ).
>
> WE CARE ABOUT ACADEMICS.
>
> And it was very clear from the briefing that our
> students are disenfranchised and not offered the
> same academics as those from neighhboring schools.
> No high level courses, combined language classes
> and music classes from one of the top school
> districts in the nation - a FAIRFAX COUNTY school
> - is just NOT RIGHT.
So it is okay that Falls Church, Mt. Vernon, JEB Stuart, West Potomac, and probably a few more schools are not offering the jewelry making classes since they aren't surrounded by larger schools from which they can take students? THey are in FAIRFAX COUNTY as well.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:09PM
Funny, why did Oakton get to draw their boundary way out here, when little old SL was right here with declining enrollment. Was it because at the time those boundaries were drawn Oakton may have been suffering from declining enrollment due to aging older districts and needed to expand their base? It's funny that other districts surrounding us have been able to benefit from new development in Fairfax County, but an arbitrary boundary was put up around South Reston. All of the new homes along Hunter Mill Road are much closer to South Lakes, yet those kids go to Madison. Are you going to tell me that there were no politics in play?
Many seem to think they are being screwed by the SB. Has SL been screwed in the past? Was SL screwed when North Point was sent to Herndon? You betcha. Was SL screwed when areas this side of Route 7 were districted to Langley? You betcha. I can provide more examples, if you like, but I've already done so earlier and repeating gets tedious.
>>
I honestly don't know when the boundary was drawn out this way relative to the declining enrollment at South Lakes. I do know that over 25 years ago Madison took Vale Road all the way to Rifle Ridge in Oakton, and all the neighborhoods along 123 in the Oakton part of Vienna. So Oakton had to go out Vale road past Rifle Ridge, almost all the way to Fox Mill to get students (other than the ones from Luther Jackson.) People from Oakton have been driving through Madison's district forever to get to school, all the way through Oakton. I don't know how long these boundaries have been in place out this way for Oakton, but I know it has been a pretty long time...long before Westfield was even a blip on the radar. The boundary used to go out to 28. Again, if you want to take Fox Mill and Crossfield so everyone is in proximity to South Lakes, fine. But just tell me what you are going to put into Oakton when you take 2/3 of their student body.
Many seem to think they are being screwed by the SB. Has SL been screwed in the past? Was SL screwed when North Point was sent to Herndon? You betcha. Was SL screwed when areas this side of Route 7 were districted to Langley? You betcha. I can provide more examples, if you like, but I've already done so earlier and repeating gets tedious.
>>
I honestly don't know when the boundary was drawn out this way relative to the declining enrollment at South Lakes. I do know that over 25 years ago Madison took Vale Road all the way to Rifle Ridge in Oakton, and all the neighborhoods along 123 in the Oakton part of Vienna. So Oakton had to go out Vale road past Rifle Ridge, almost all the way to Fox Mill to get students (other than the ones from Luther Jackson.) People from Oakton have been driving through Madison's district forever to get to school, all the way through Oakton. I don't know how long these boundaries have been in place out this way for Oakton, but I know it has been a pretty long time...long before Westfield was even a blip on the radar. The boundary used to go out to 28. Again, if you want to take Fox Mill and Crossfield so everyone is in proximity to South Lakes, fine. But just tell me what you are going to put into Oakton when you take 2/3 of their student body.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:14PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
>
> So it is okay that Falls Church, Mt. Vernon, JEB
> Stuart, West Potomac, and probably a few more
> schools are not offering the jewelry making
> classes since they aren't surrounded by larger
> schools from which they can take students? THey
> are in FAIRFAX COUNTY as well.
Maybe Oakton can donate some classes to them. I didn't think that West Potomac was in the same boat as the other schools. Can you clarify? Mount Vernon would not be in the shape it is in right now if the lilly-livered SB had included them in the South County study, BTW. South County is overcrowded and those extra students could have been using available space at MV.
>
> So it is okay that Falls Church, Mt. Vernon, JEB
> Stuart, West Potomac, and probably a few more
> schools are not offering the jewelry making
> classes since they aren't surrounded by larger
> schools from which they can take students? THey
> are in FAIRFAX COUNTY as well.
Maybe Oakton can donate some classes to them. I didn't think that West Potomac was in the same boat as the other schools. Can you clarify? Mount Vernon would not be in the shape it is in right now if the lilly-livered SB had included them in the South County study, BTW. South County is overcrowded and those extra students could have been using available space at MV.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:19PM
hmmm07, hasn't there been talk of switching some Westfield and/or Chantilly kids to Oakton? It will be interesting to see what is proposed at the next meeting.
I hate having to always play devil's advocate, but it is the nature of this board and the position that the County has put SL in by not addressing these issues a long time ago. I think most of us posting here are very reasonable and concerned parents. I would be honored to have most everyone here attending school in our district.
At the risk of getting snide comments from people posting here who will probably invite me to take a hike, I am wondering just how much more can be said regarding these issues. I am exhausted from all of the debate, frankly. I'll bet you are, too.
I hate having to always play devil's advocate, but it is the nature of this board and the position that the County has put SL in by not addressing these issues a long time ago. I think most of us posting here are very reasonable and concerned parents. I would be honored to have most everyone here attending school in our district.
At the risk of getting snide comments from people posting here who will probably invite me to take a hike, I am wondering just how much more can be said regarding these issues. I am exhausted from all of the debate, frankly. I'll bet you are, too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:20PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> > So it is okay that Falls Church, Mt. Vernon,
> JEB
> > Stuart, West Potomac, and probably a few more
> > schools are not offering the jewelry making
> > classes since they aren't surrounded by larger
> > schools from which they can take students?
> THey
> > are in FAIRFAX COUNTY as well.
>
> Maybe Oakton can donate some classes to them. I
> didn't think that West Potomac was in the same
> boat as the other schools. Can you clarify?
> Mount Vernon would not be in the shape it is in
> right now if the lilly-livered SB had included
> them in the South County study, BTW. South County
> is overcrowded and those extra students could have
> been using available space at MV.
I'm sure that if it meant they could stay put, pretty much everyone at Oakton would be happy to donate classes to whoever needs them. And if the Mt. Vernon issues are because of the SB's shortsightedness, how again is it that we are supposed to trust them to get this one right?
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> > So it is okay that Falls Church, Mt. Vernon,
> JEB
> > Stuart, West Potomac, and probably a few more
> > schools are not offering the jewelry making
> > classes since they aren't surrounded by larger
> > schools from which they can take students?
> THey
> > are in FAIRFAX COUNTY as well.
>
> Maybe Oakton can donate some classes to them. I
> didn't think that West Potomac was in the same
> boat as the other schools. Can you clarify?
> Mount Vernon would not be in the shape it is in
> right now if the lilly-livered SB had included
> them in the South County study, BTW. South County
> is overcrowded and those extra students could have
> been using available space at MV.
I'm sure that if it meant they could stay put, pretty much everyone at Oakton would be happy to donate classes to whoever needs them. And if the Mt. Vernon issues are because of the SB's shortsightedness, how again is it that we are supposed to trust them to get this one right?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:22PM
> >
> > WE CARE ABOUT ACADEMICS.
> >
> > And it was very clear from the briefing that
> our
> > students are disenfranchised and not offered
> the
> > same academics as those from neighhboring
> schools.
> > No high level courses, combined language
> classes
> > and music classes from one of the top school
> > districts in the nation - a FAIRFAX COUNTY
> school
> > - is just NOT RIGHT.
>
>
Old Timer, you hit the nail on the head. Let's address the resource issue at SL.
> > WE CARE ABOUT ACADEMICS.
> >
> > And it was very clear from the briefing that
> our
> > students are disenfranchised and not offered
> the
> > same academics as those from neighhboring
> schools.
> > No high level courses, combined language
> classes
> > and music classes from one of the top school
> > districts in the nation - a FAIRFAX COUNTY
> school
> > - is just NOT RIGHT.
>
>
Old Timer, you hit the nail on the head. Let's address the resource issue at SL.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:27PM
hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm sure that if it meant they could stay put,
> pretty much everyone at Oakton would be happy to
> donate classes to whoever needs them. And if the
> Mt. Vernon issues are because of the SB's
> shortsightedness, how again is it that we are
> supposed to trust them to get this one right?
I guess this is where we disagree. The SB left MV out because they didn't want to deal with the negative demographics there and apparently did not have the stomach for the fight. Here I think they are doing the right thing by including SL and trying to increase enrollment. Have they done everything right? Absolutely not. Langley, Langley, Langley. But at least they aren't ignoring the problems that they created right here in Reston, which I do think have been political.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm sure that if it meant they could stay put,
> pretty much everyone at Oakton would be happy to
> donate classes to whoever needs them. And if the
> Mt. Vernon issues are because of the SB's
> shortsightedness, how again is it that we are
> supposed to trust them to get this one right?
I guess this is where we disagree. The SB left MV out because they didn't want to deal with the negative demographics there and apparently did not have the stomach for the fight. Here I think they are doing the right thing by including SL and trying to increase enrollment. Have they done everything right? Absolutely not. Langley, Langley, Langley. But at least they aren't ignoring the problems that they created right here in Reston, which I do think have been political.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
hmmm07
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:35PM
SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07, hasn't there been talk of switching some
> Westfield and/or Chantilly kids to Oakton? It
> will be interesting to see what is proposed at the
> next meeting.
>
> I hate having to always play devil's advocate, but
> it is the nature of this board and the position
> that the County has put SL in by not addressing
> these issues a long time ago. I think most of us
> posting here are very reasonable and concerned
> parents. I would be honored to have most everyone
> here attending school in our district.
>
> At the risk of getting snide comments from people
> posting here who will probably invite me to take a
> hike, I am wondering just how much more can be
> said regarding these issues. I am exhausted from
> all of the debate, frankly. I'll bet you are,
> too.
The talk was of moving Navy into Oakton, but that serves no purpose if you are talking about proximity. Those kids are within a mile or two from Chantilly and have just as long a commute to Oakton as we do from out this way...probably worse because it is further for them to get to back roads, so it would be 66 as a commuter path for them. It would be crazy to send Westfield kids to Oakton because they would be jumping right over us to get there...much further. The issue can be about proximity. I say that now as I'm on my way to make the second of three round trips to Oakton today. But if proximity is the issue then you can't just pull kids close to South Lakes in because there are no kids closer to Oakton to pull in there.
I'm also exhausted. I'm heartened though, by some of the positive debate I've heard. Between the forum, and last night's meeting, I have no doubt that should we end up there, my younger kids will do fine at South Lakes (provided they get an AP program in there,) and I will, no doubt, enjoy the shorter commute. But I do have an allegiance to Oakton, will demand that my rising sophomore be allowed to finish there and will continue to support that school for many years to come whether my kids are there or not. WIth that, I will bow out of the forum. Nobody here is going to change any minds, especially me or mine. I came here to try to get some facts and I think I did. I wish everyone the best. We all want what is best for our kids and I sincerely hope the school board can come up with a well thought out way for that to happen in the manner that will disrupt the least amount of people/families.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07, hasn't there been talk of switching some
> Westfield and/or Chantilly kids to Oakton? It
> will be interesting to see what is proposed at the
> next meeting.
>
> I hate having to always play devil's advocate, but
> it is the nature of this board and the position
> that the County has put SL in by not addressing
> these issues a long time ago. I think most of us
> posting here are very reasonable and concerned
> parents. I would be honored to have most everyone
> here attending school in our district.
>
> At the risk of getting snide comments from people
> posting here who will probably invite me to take a
> hike, I am wondering just how much more can be
> said regarding these issues. I am exhausted from
> all of the debate, frankly. I'll bet you are,
> too.
The talk was of moving Navy into Oakton, but that serves no purpose if you are talking about proximity. Those kids are within a mile or two from Chantilly and have just as long a commute to Oakton as we do from out this way...probably worse because it is further for them to get to back roads, so it would be 66 as a commuter path for them. It would be crazy to send Westfield kids to Oakton because they would be jumping right over us to get there...much further. The issue can be about proximity. I say that now as I'm on my way to make the second of three round trips to Oakton today. But if proximity is the issue then you can't just pull kids close to South Lakes in because there are no kids closer to Oakton to pull in there.
I'm also exhausted. I'm heartened though, by some of the positive debate I've heard. Between the forum, and last night's meeting, I have no doubt that should we end up there, my younger kids will do fine at South Lakes (provided they get an AP program in there,) and I will, no doubt, enjoy the shorter commute. But I do have an allegiance to Oakton, will demand that my rising sophomore be allowed to finish there and will continue to support that school for many years to come whether my kids are there or not. WIth that, I will bow out of the forum. Nobody here is going to change any minds, especially me or mine. I came here to try to get some facts and I think I did. I wish everyone the best. We all want what is best for our kids and I sincerely hope the school board can come up with a well thought out way for that to happen in the manner that will disrupt the least amount of people/families.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:36PM
Actually, I was only half kidding about having a small exclusive school at South Lakes funded by Reston taxes. Small class sizes, diverse course offerings? It could be great.
Who do we talk to about this?
Who do we talk to about this?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:40PM
South lakes has about as many students as Marshall and Falls Church, both are Fairfax County high schools. It would be nice to see the same level of urgency applied to rectifying this situation at all schools where it exists...if its a problem for some FFCPS students, shouldn't it be a problem for all?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:41PM
That was a great post, hmmm07.
I truly hope it works out for you and yours, too, and -- with a few exceptions -- think that people raise legitimate, understandable concerns and desires.
That proved true last night in the small group in which I participated, also. I think SLHS is much maligned, but I also understand why Chantilly Highlands wants/expects to go to Chantilly (for example).
So, if you are a stronger person than I am (and can resist the urge not to post again -- I have vowed same to myself several times....), all the best.
I truly hope it works out for you and yours, too, and -- with a few exceptions -- think that people raise legitimate, understandable concerns and desires.
That proved true last night in the small group in which I participated, also. I think SLHS is much maligned, but I also understand why Chantilly Highlands wants/expects to go to Chantilly (for example).
So, if you are a stronger person than I am (and can resist the urge not to post again -- I have vowed same to myself several times....), all the best.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:47PM
SLPP, you missed you chance...
You already have small school, and exclusivity seems not to be an issue :)
Just take the $40M+ spent on the removation and turn it into 50 more teachers for the next ten years :) and you get hundreds more course offerings.
Or maybe you forgot about the $40M that all of the county just spend on SLHS? :)
You already have small school, and exclusivity seems not to be an issue :)
Just take the $40M+ spent on the removation and turn it into 50 more teachers for the next ten years :) and you get hundreds more course offerings.
Or maybe you forgot about the $40M that all of the county just spend on SLHS? :)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:51PM
Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP, you missed you chance...
>
> You already have small school, and exclusivity
> seems not to be an issue :)
>
> Just take the $40M+ spent on the removation and
> turn it into 50 more teachers for the next ten
> years :) and you get hundreds more course
> offerings.
>
> Or maybe you forgot about the $40M that all of the
> county just spend on SLHS? :)
Well, the $40M was required maintenance--making it an exclusive (meaning only Reston residents) school with all those resources would take much more. Sadly, I fear that the beaurocratic wrangling required to make this happen would be close to impossible. It is a nice dream though.:)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 04:55PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP, you missed you chance...
>
> You already have small school, and exclusivity
> seems not to be an issue :)
>
> Just take the $40M+ spent on the removation and
> turn it into 50 more teachers for the next ten
> years :) and you get hundreds more course
> offerings.
>
> Or maybe you forgot about the $40M that all of the
> county just spend on SLHS? :)
Well, the $40M was required maintenance--making it an exclusive (meaning only Reston residents) school with all those resources would take much more. Sadly, I fear that the beaurocratic wrangling required to make this happen would be close to impossible. It is a nice dream though.:)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 04:55PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLVerity
()
Date: November 13, 2007 04:57PM
Cheers, Hmmm7. Thanks for your kind response. I am bowing out, too, because, as I've already said, I think we've exhausted the subject here, and in the process have walked a mile...as they say. Again, I would be honored to have the children of people posting here at South Lakes. Good luck to all of you and your children. I have no doubt they will all prosper wherever they end up.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 05:30PM by SLVerity.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 05:30PM by SLVerity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
pyramidparent
()
Date: November 13, 2007 05:46PM
Thanks for that inspiration, LH to SL Parent. I agree--keep the racist/elitist pigs out of SLHS. I dare say their kids should fear the future with such excellent role models. No one at SL, or any other of the Reston pyramid schools, wants to expose our kids to that kind of rancor. Keep your lily whites where they are--with heads in the sand!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
bonne
()
Date: November 13, 2007 05:50PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I was only half kidding about having a
> small exclusive school at South Lakes funded by
> Reston taxes. Small class sizes, diverse course
> offerings? It could be great.
>
> Who do we talk to about this?
I think this is a great idea. Who can get the ball rolling?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I was only half kidding about having a
> small exclusive school at South Lakes funded by
> Reston taxes. Small class sizes, diverse course
> offerings? It could be great.
>
> Who do we talk to about this?
I think this is a great idea. Who can get the ball rolling?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
macaosandy
()
Date: November 13, 2007 06:27PM
True in part, no one wants to go to South Lakes, including and most importantly the Reston community.
Why on God's earth does part of Reston go to Herndon when ROA, RYA, and the like control life until........South Lakes....give me a break......
If the community has no pride for their school then great idea....close it....only then the Reston folks will whine about that. You simply want to bus wealthier kids in to a community while your wealthier kids in Reston go else where.
And we all know it is not as simple as RACE....it is not RACIAL....it is economically motivated.........Fairfax County is diverse.......OAKTON WESTFIELDS and Chantilly have racially diverse populations......just not so many free lunch kids.
Why should Oak Hill people go to South Lakes?????? Is this to simply bash the folks that CHOSE not to live in Reston......do you let us use your rec facilities? Do you let us use your fields......no not until you want our economic mix for the high school......total HOGWASH....
Let Reston be Reston......and go to South Lakes or close it down!!!!!!!!!!
Why on God's earth does part of Reston go to Herndon when ROA, RYA, and the like control life until........South Lakes....give me a break......
If the community has no pride for their school then great idea....close it....only then the Reston folks will whine about that. You simply want to bus wealthier kids in to a community while your wealthier kids in Reston go else where.
And we all know it is not as simple as RACE....it is not RACIAL....it is economically motivated.........Fairfax County is diverse.......OAKTON WESTFIELDS and Chantilly have racially diverse populations......just not so many free lunch kids.
Why should Oak Hill people go to South Lakes?????? Is this to simply bash the folks that CHOSE not to live in Reston......do you let us use your rec facilities? Do you let us use your fields......no not until you want our economic mix for the high school......total HOGWASH....
Let Reston be Reston......and go to South Lakes or close it down!!!!!!!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
yousuck
()
Date: November 13, 2007 06:59PM
macaosandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True in part, no one wants to go to South Lakes,
> including and most importantly the Reston
> community.
>
> Why on God's earth does part of Reston go to
> Herndon when ROA, RYA, and the like control life
> until........South Lakes....give me a break......
>
> If the community has no pride for their school
> then great idea....close it....only then the
> Reston folks will whine about that. You simply
> want to bus wealthier kids in to a community while
> your wealthier kids in Reston go else where.
>
> And we all know it is not as simple as RACE....it
> is not RACIAL....it is economically
> motivated.........Fairfax County is
> diverse.......OAKTON WESTFIELDS and Chantilly have
> racially diverse populations......just not so many
> free lunch kids.
>
> Why should Oak Hill people go to South Lakes??????
> Is this to simply bash the folks that CHOSE not to
> live in Reston......do you let us use your rec
> facilities? Do you let us use your fields......no
> not until you want our economic mix for the high
> school......total HOGWASH....
>
> Let Reston be Reston......and go to South Lakes or
> close it down!!!!!!!!!!
The vast majority of Reston likes South Lakes. North Reston goes to Herndon because of the school board's decision, not their own. If you do not live in Reston, don't speak for the people who do as if you have the slightest clue what is going on.
-------------------------------------------------------
> True in part, no one wants to go to South Lakes,
> including and most importantly the Reston
> community.
>
> Why on God's earth does part of Reston go to
> Herndon when ROA, RYA, and the like control life
> until........South Lakes....give me a break......
>
> If the community has no pride for their school
> then great idea....close it....only then the
> Reston folks will whine about that. You simply
> want to bus wealthier kids in to a community while
> your wealthier kids in Reston go else where.
>
> And we all know it is not as simple as RACE....it
> is not RACIAL....it is economically
> motivated.........Fairfax County is
> diverse.......OAKTON WESTFIELDS and Chantilly have
> racially diverse populations......just not so many
> free lunch kids.
>
> Why should Oak Hill people go to South Lakes??????
> Is this to simply bash the folks that CHOSE not to
> live in Reston......do you let us use your rec
> facilities? Do you let us use your fields......no
> not until you want our economic mix for the high
> school......total HOGWASH....
>
> Let Reston be Reston......and go to South Lakes or
> close it down!!!!!!!!!!
The vast majority of Reston likes South Lakes. North Reston goes to Herndon because of the school board's decision, not their own. If you do not live in Reston, don't speak for the people who do as if you have the slightest clue what is going on.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 13, 2007 07:08PM
HooTribe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chantilly Mom.
>
> Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and that
> is the way it should be. Personally, I just want
> better resources for SL. It is unfortunate that
> the county is handling this the way it is.
>
> Quick Question: You said you bought into a
> "school district" - my understanding is that you
> did not. You bought into an existing "school
> boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know you
> still don't want to move, but there is a big
> differance between the two.
>
> Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
When people have children they not only buy the house they buy in the area that has the schools they want... you can call it what ever you want honey.
This is a fact of life and real estate
I am not in a area of fairfax that will be redistricted. I am simply stating the facts as to why people are upset.
and for you to say that those who's children are to be redistricted should just move because YOU"RE INSULTED says a lot about who YOU are.
why did you buy a home in SL school district?
I can tell you why I bought my house in the school zones I'm in. Because I wanted my kids to go to Navy, Franklin and Chantilly.
sorry that your ego can't take the truth
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chantilly Mom.
>
> Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and that
> is the way it should be. Personally, I just want
> better resources for SL. It is unfortunate that
> the county is handling this the way it is.
>
> Quick Question: You said you bought into a
> "school district" - my understanding is that you
> did not. You bought into an existing "school
> boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know you
> still don't want to move, but there is a big
> differance between the two.
>
> Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
When people have children they not only buy the house they buy in the area that has the schools they want... you can call it what ever you want honey.
This is a fact of life and real estate
I am not in a area of fairfax that will be redistricted. I am simply stating the facts as to why people are upset.
and for you to say that those who's children are to be redistricted should just move because YOU"RE INSULTED says a lot about who YOU are.
why did you buy a home in SL school district?
I can tell you why I bought my house in the school zones I'm in. Because I wanted my kids to go to Navy, Franklin and Chantilly.
sorry that your ego can't take the truth
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 13, 2007 07:20PM
macaosandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True in part, no one wants to go to South Lakes,
> including and most importantly the Reston
> community.
>
> Why on God's earth does part of Reston go to
> Herndon when ROA, RYA, and the like control life
> until........South Lakes....give me a break......
>
> If the community has no pride for their school
> then great idea....close it....only then the
> Reston folks will whine about that. You simply
> want to bus wealthier kids in to a community while
> your wealthier kids in Reston go else where.
>
> And we all know it is not as simple as RACE....it
> is not RACIAL....it is economically
> motivated.........Fairfax County is
> diverse.......OAKTON WESTFIELDS and Chantilly have
> racially diverse populations......just not so many
> free lunch kids.
>
> Why should Oak Hill people go to South Lakes??????
> Is this to simply bash the folks that CHOSE not to
> live in Reston......do you let us use your rec
> facilities? Do you let us use your fields......no
> not until you want our economic mix for the high
> school......total HOGWASH....
>
> Let Reston be Reston......and go to South Lakes or
> close it down!!!!!!!!!!
Don't know where to start on this one, but I can tell you that RYA is the Reston Youth Football Association.
Thanks for letting me know that they are controlling our brainwaves -- must be the helmets.....good thing that the season is over. Maybe there is hope.
-------------------------------------------------------
> True in part, no one wants to go to South Lakes,
> including and most importantly the Reston
> community.
>
> Why on God's earth does part of Reston go to
> Herndon when ROA, RYA, and the like control life
> until........South Lakes....give me a break......
>
> If the community has no pride for their school
> then great idea....close it....only then the
> Reston folks will whine about that. You simply
> want to bus wealthier kids in to a community while
> your wealthier kids in Reston go else where.
>
> And we all know it is not as simple as RACE....it
> is not RACIAL....it is economically
> motivated.........Fairfax County is
> diverse.......OAKTON WESTFIELDS and Chantilly have
> racially diverse populations......just not so many
> free lunch kids.
>
> Why should Oak Hill people go to South Lakes??????
> Is this to simply bash the folks that CHOSE not to
> live in Reston......do you let us use your rec
> facilities? Do you let us use your fields......no
> not until you want our economic mix for the high
> school......total HOGWASH....
>
> Let Reston be Reston......and go to South Lakes or
> close it down!!!!!!!!!!
Don't know where to start on this one, but I can tell you that RYA is the Reston Youth Football Association.
Thanks for letting me know that they are controlling our brainwaves -- must be the helmets.....good thing that the season is over. Maybe there is hope.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
seducedbyacougar
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:04PM
we should just save our energy and not fight it
we're bound to end up at south lakes since i live in fox mill. it's closer, too, so i don't mind.
we're bound to end up at south lakes since i live in fox mill. it's closer, too, so i don't mind.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
macaosandy
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:41PM
Oh really, well then why did the North Reston parents make t-shirts supporting staying at Herndon HS.....ABC......about balanced community.........
I do know that Reston's lack of acceptance of their own community has caused the rest of western FFX grief over over over again........starting with Hunter's Woods Elementary year's ago......
As I remember turning the elementary school into a magnet school worked for everyone........but FORCING other communities into RESTON is not the answer. It wasn't then and it isn't now!!!!!!
If you live in Reston then you know the community is divided about South Lakes......if North Reston wanted to be in South Lakes then that would work for everyone.....
Who from North Reston has spoken up to come back to South Lakes.........would love to see it in STRONG NUMBERS>>>>>>>>>>
I do know that Reston's lack of acceptance of their own community has caused the rest of western FFX grief over over over again........starting with Hunter's Woods Elementary year's ago......
As I remember turning the elementary school into a magnet school worked for everyone........but FORCING other communities into RESTON is not the answer. It wasn't then and it isn't now!!!!!!
If you live in Reston then you know the community is divided about South Lakes......if North Reston wanted to be in South Lakes then that would work for everyone.....
Who from North Reston has spoken up to come back to South Lakes.........would love to see it in STRONG NUMBERS>>>>>>>>>>
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
ghg
()
Date: November 13, 2007 09:56PM
CLARIFICATION:
North Reston was never taken from anyone. Since HHS is one of the oldest county high schools, their attendance areas predate both SL and Langley. North Reston has always gone to HHS and....WE WANT TO STAY AT HHS.
That "sea of red" that you saw last night...North Reston!!
North Reston was never taken from anyone. Since HHS is one of the oldest county high schools, their attendance areas predate both SL and Langley. North Reston has always gone to HHS and....WE WANT TO STAY AT HHS.
That "sea of red" that you saw last night...North Reston!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
cheshire cat
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:05PM
Sorry North Point. You are wrong. My child was at South Lakes when North Point was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne Elem, Hughes and SL. Get your facts straight. You are entitled to want to go to Herndon, but not to rewrite history.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
macaosandy
()
Date: November 13, 2007 10:35PM
I know North Reston was not taken from South Lakes so sorry....but I believe when South Lakes was first opened there were very few homes completed in North Reston.........it just makes more sense as the Reston community grew and changed for your kids to go to their community school......South Lakes was built to educate Reston's kids........FFX is about neighborhood schools.......we do not bus without a purpose.....
And what is so odd is that SO MANY SOUTH LAKES KIDS AND PARENTS ARE HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY.....GREAT SCHOOL GREAT FACILITIES.........BUT THe KIDS FAMILIES GREW UP TOGETHER PLAYING SPORTS, IN THE SCHOOL BANDS ETC ETC.
I was reading solutions and really turning South Lakes into a magnet school or something like that would be a great solution........it would be nice to stop yanking our kids in/out of school districts.......
Oak Hill kids.......we had a saying when Rachael Carson was opened....five schools in five years.....it became a reality for our kids.....that's what our kids went through....and well... they did go on to college, play sports in college and even graduate and get jobs......most kids were given the option to stay with their community high school.....
The point is that Reston has not looked to Reston to solve their underenrollment problems and it is mind boggling to me....I know your kids don't want to move but the geography just seems to make sense.......but so does a magnet school.....maybe even sell land to open another NVCC campus...just throwing out ideas.....
In other parts of the state, JMU bought land (Harrisonburg HS) as the college grew. The Burg built a new HS. NOVA could have sports etc like some of the other MD community colleges........just thinking out loud..,,
And what is so odd is that SO MANY SOUTH LAKES KIDS AND PARENTS ARE HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY.....GREAT SCHOOL GREAT FACILITIES.........BUT THe KIDS FAMILIES GREW UP TOGETHER PLAYING SPORTS, IN THE SCHOOL BANDS ETC ETC.
I was reading solutions and really turning South Lakes into a magnet school or something like that would be a great solution........it would be nice to stop yanking our kids in/out of school districts.......
Oak Hill kids.......we had a saying when Rachael Carson was opened....five schools in five years.....it became a reality for our kids.....that's what our kids went through....and well... they did go on to college, play sports in college and even graduate and get jobs......most kids were given the option to stay with their community high school.....
The point is that Reston has not looked to Reston to solve their underenrollment problems and it is mind boggling to me....I know your kids don't want to move but the geography just seems to make sense.......but so does a magnet school.....maybe even sell land to open another NVCC campus...just throwing out ideas.....
In other parts of the state, JMU bought land (Harrisonburg HS) as the college grew. The Burg built a new HS. NOVA could have sports etc like some of the other MD community colleges........just thinking out loud..,,
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 03:42AM
CloserTo chantilly,
How were kids moved out of a school then sent back there the following year. That sounds like the worst of all worlds! How did it happen?
If people refuse to choose a school to be sent to South Lakes, without Langley in the mix, and without consideration for magnet programs, you all will prevail. Just hang tough and refuse to choose any of their scenarios, until they throw out this study and consult the community BEFORE they decide to redistrict. Force them to start all over and involve the entire community from the get go.
How were kids moved out of a school then sent back there the following year. That sounds like the worst of all worlds! How did it happen?
If people refuse to choose a school to be sent to South Lakes, without Langley in the mix, and without consideration for magnet programs, you all will prevail. Just hang tough and refuse to choose any of their scenarios, until they throw out this study and consult the community BEFORE they decide to redistrict. Force them to start all over and involve the entire community from the get go.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 03:44AM
>>>My child was at South Lakes when North Point was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne Elem, Hughes and SL<<<
And you complained when sent to Herndon?
And you complained when sent to Herndon?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 03:50AM
Rather than spend $50 million to renovate TJ, move all those kids into South lakes and sell the TJ property, worth many millions because it's way inside the beltway. Then move all the South Lakes kids to other schools, Oakton, Madison, Langley, Herndon, Westfield, etc. Everyone gets a better school! It's a win-win.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:10AM
Cricket,
I would gladly come to the meetings if my presence was welcome. Since my area isn't effected, yet, I was concerned that people might resent my pres ence since my schools were not involved. Would they resent my thoughts on schools that are not mine? What do you think?
I would gladly come to the meetings if my presence was welcome. Since my area isn't effected, yet, I was concerned that people might resent my pres ence since my schools were not involved. Would they resent my thoughts on schools that are not mine? What do you think?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:12AM
Madison Island is in Vienna. It has a Vienna address, they go to church in Vienna, play little league in Vienna. They're a part of Vienna. Madison is Vienna's high school. A Vienna address means Madison high school. Until now anyway.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:38AM
hmmm07 said>>>>the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this will get much more ugly before it gets nice<<<
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:38AM
hmmm07 said>>>>the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this will get much more ugly before it gets nice<<<
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:39AM
hmmm07 said>>>>the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this will get much more ugly before it gets nice<<<
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:39AM
hmmm07 said>>>>the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this will get much more ugly before it gets nice<<<
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this as their first choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force the to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 14, 2007 06:36AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> I would gladly come to the meetings if my presence
> was welcome. Since my area isn't effected, yet, I
> was concerned that people might resent my pres
> ence since my schools were not involved. Would
> they resent my thoughts on schools that are not
> mine? What do you think?
I am sure you would not be alone. Aren't these meetings open to the public? The police were there so why not everyone else in the county?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket,
> I would gladly come to the meetings if my presence
> was welcome. Since my area isn't effected, yet, I
> was concerned that people might resent my pres
> ence since my schools were not involved. Would
> they resent my thoughts on schools that are not
> mine? What do you think?
I am sure you would not be alone. Aren't these meetings open to the public? The police were there so why not everyone else in the county?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cricket
()
Date: November 14, 2007 06:39AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 said>>>>the scenarios presented at the next
> meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but
> examination of other ways to bring kids to South
> Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the
> study. If you walked around and looked at the
> gallery afterwards, those two items were
> OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from
> every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor
> against neighbor, school against school, this will
> get much more ugly before it gets nice<<<
>
> I heard exactly the same things from my friends.
> How will FCPS deal with the top two things that
> every group wanted? How will they be spinned to
> be something other than what they are? How can
> staff say they want community input and then
> ignore the two things that every group wanted? If
> they ignore those two things, they will have to
> admit that the community meetings are a sham and
> they are going to do whatever the heck they want
> to do.
>
> At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2
> or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all
> hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this
> as their first choice. Remind staff of what the
> community said, then you'll have to refuse to
> choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one
> neighborhood against another. Refuse to put
> parents in a position of making their neighbors
> angry. Tell them they must go back to square one
> and involve the entire community BEFORE any
> decisions are made about boundary changes. It
> cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to
> eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor
> can they be allowed to decide which schools can be
> considered and which schools, Langley and Madison,
> will be held harmless. Force the to redo this
> entire process. Start OVER!!!!
This is how they will try...
They will stick to the agenda of the second meeting and ignore the agenda and purpose (the 2 questions) of the first meeting.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 said>>>>the scenarios presented at the next
> meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but
> examination of other ways to bring kids to South
> Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the
> study. If you walked around and looked at the
> gallery afterwards, those two items were
> OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from
> every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor
> against neighbor, school against school, this will
> get much more ugly before it gets nice<<<
>
> I heard exactly the same things from my friends.
> How will FCPS deal with the top two things that
> every group wanted? How will they be spinned to
> be something other than what they are? How can
> staff say they want community input and then
> ignore the two things that every group wanted? If
> they ignore those two things, they will have to
> admit that the community meetings are a sham and
> they are going to do whatever the heck they want
> to do.
>
> At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2
> or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all
> hang tough and remind staff that NO group had this
> as their first choice. Remind staff of what the
> community said, then you'll have to refuse to
> choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one
> neighborhood against another. Refuse to put
> parents in a position of making their neighbors
> angry. Tell them they must go back to square one
> and involve the entire community BEFORE any
> decisions are made about boundary changes. It
> cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to
> eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor
> can they be allowed to decide which schools can be
> considered and which schools, Langley and Madison,
> will be held harmless. Force the to redo this
> entire process. Start OVER!!!!
This is how they will try...
They will stick to the agenda of the second meeting and ignore the agenda and purpose (the 2 questions) of the first meeting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: November 14, 2007 10:01AM
chantilly mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chantilly Mom.
> >
> > Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and
> that
> > is the way it should be. Personally, I just
> want
> > better resources for SL. It is unfortunate
> that
> > the county is handling this the way it is.
> >
> > Quick Question: You said you bought into a
> > "school district" - my understanding is that
> you
> > did not. You bought into an existing "school
> > boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know
> you
> > still don't want to move, but there is a big
> > differance between the two.
> >
> > Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
>
>
>
>
> When people have children they not only buy the
> house they buy in the area that has the schools
> they want... you can call it what ever you want
> honey.
>
> This is a fact of life and real estate
>
>
>
> I am not in a area of fairfax that will be
> redistricted. I am simply stating the facts as to
> why people are upset.
>
> and for you to say that those who's children are
> to be redistricted should just move because YOU"RE
> INSULTED says a lot about who YOU are.
>
>
>
> why did you buy a home in SL school district?
>
>
>
> I can tell you why I bought my house in the school
> zones I'm in. Because I wanted my kids to go to
> Navy, Franklin and Chantilly.
>
>
> sorry that your ego can't take the truth
OK Chantilly Mom, calm down - my post was trying to be civil. If you need to, please remember to take your medication ... As I said, I am happy to be in Reston, and bought here partly because of Hunters Woods (which we love) and figured changes would be made to South Lakes (we guessed right).
Everyone knows that when they buy into Fairfax County, there are no guarantees as to where you will go to school (except Langley, it seems). If people were so smart when they checked what school they would go to, they would also have checked the boundary map and considered how long it would last. As someone already mentioned in a post above, you can't objectively look at the way Oakton's boundary is drawn and think that it would last forever. Same with the Madison island (sorry guys).
As I said before, I wish you good luck with the process. I hope your ego can handle the truth - the board/staff clearly wants to make a change.
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chantilly Mom.
> >
> > Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and
> that
> > is the way it should be. Personally, I just
> want
> > better resources for SL. It is unfortunate
> that
> > the county is handling this the way it is.
> >
> > Quick Question: You said you bought into a
> > "school district" - my understanding is that
> you
> > did not. You bought into an existing "school
> > boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know
> you
> > still don't want to move, but there is a big
> > differance between the two.
> >
> > Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
>
>
>
>
> When people have children they not only buy the
> house they buy in the area that has the schools
> they want... you can call it what ever you want
> honey.
>
> This is a fact of life and real estate
>
>
>
> I am not in a area of fairfax that will be
> redistricted. I am simply stating the facts as to
> why people are upset.
>
> and for you to say that those who's children are
> to be redistricted should just move because YOU"RE
> INSULTED says a lot about who YOU are.
>
>
>
> why did you buy a home in SL school district?
>
>
>
> I can tell you why I bought my house in the school
> zones I'm in. Because I wanted my kids to go to
> Navy, Franklin and Chantilly.
>
>
> sorry that your ego can't take the truth
OK Chantilly Mom, calm down - my post was trying to be civil. If you need to, please remember to take your medication ... As I said, I am happy to be in Reston, and bought here partly because of Hunters Woods (which we love) and figured changes would be made to South Lakes (we guessed right).
Everyone knows that when they buy into Fairfax County, there are no guarantees as to where you will go to school (except Langley, it seems). If people were so smart when they checked what school they would go to, they would also have checked the boundary map and considered how long it would last. As someone already mentioned in a post above, you can't objectively look at the way Oakton's boundary is drawn and think that it would last forever. Same with the Madison island (sorry guys).
As I said before, I wish you good luck with the process. I hope your ego can handle the truth - the board/staff clearly wants to make a change.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Unified
()
Date: November 14, 2007 01:56PM
Agree with you Islander although not one myself and I don't believe we should "help" the County solve its imagined/created boundary problem by "giving up" less represented areas. Remaining unified will also become important should the need to litigate become necessary.
The County's actions have inadvertently caused South Lakes High School to be scrutized and analysed as though it was a patient on an operating table. And when statistics are displayed,....as compared to neighboring schools.... again...more harm to the SL reputation and the students in attendance. Yet,obviously, parents at many affected schools are conducting investigations and statistics are part of the review. Nobodys fault but the County of Fairfax.
While the County may not "own" this unintended consequence...it/they can limit the continuing damage being done to the SL Community, and surrounding areas as well, by placing a moratorium on the redistricting agenda while other solutions are considered. This plan was obviously poorly executed from the start.
The County's actions have inadvertently caused South Lakes High School to be scrutized and analysed as though it was a patient on an operating table. And when statistics are displayed,....as compared to neighboring schools.... again...more harm to the SL reputation and the students in attendance. Yet,obviously, parents at many affected schools are conducting investigations and statistics are part of the review. Nobodys fault but the County of Fairfax.
While the County may not "own" this unintended consequence...it/they can limit the continuing damage being done to the SL Community, and surrounding areas as well, by placing a moratorium on the redistricting agenda while other solutions are considered. This plan was obviously poorly executed from the start.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
veritysproxy
()
Date: November 14, 2007 03:47PM
Neen - you still have horrible grammer. Again: Affect NOT effect.
I live a block from SLHS. Your solution of making the whole place a magnet and busing the neighborhood kids to "good" schools like Madison, Oakton and Westfield is ridiculous. insulting, obnoxious and just plain stupid. You don't think the fine people in my neighborhood would be as mad as all the other people who are getting redistricted now? As best I could tell (as my child is a few years from HS), we LIKE our neighborhood school - and pretty much everyone goes there.
And to macaosandy: you probably didn't "pay" $600K for your house. If you have lived here more than a few years, you probably paid about $250,000. The real estate bubble just made it a $600,000 house. Your self-importance and sense of entitlement apparently got bloated along with the price tag.
I live a block from SLHS. Your solution of making the whole place a magnet and busing the neighborhood kids to "good" schools like Madison, Oakton and Westfield is ridiculous. insulting, obnoxious and just plain stupid. You don't think the fine people in my neighborhood would be as mad as all the other people who are getting redistricted now? As best I could tell (as my child is a few years from HS), we LIKE our neighborhood school - and pretty much everyone goes there.
And to macaosandy: you probably didn't "pay" $600K for your house. If you have lived here more than a few years, you probably paid about $250,000. The real estate bubble just made it a $600,000 house. Your self-importance and sense of entitlement apparently got bloated along with the price tag.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
vertitysprxy
()
Date: November 14, 2007 03:49PM
Oops. meant to say Grammar in the above post. My bad.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Dodd
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:24PM
people age everywhere so that's a poor excuse as to why people do not go to South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting-new Fordham Report on AP/IB
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:51PM
The Fordham Institute just issued a report comparing AP and IB courses in four subjects, "Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate: Do They Deserve Gold Star Status." This report gave AP Calc AB a C+, and IB SL Math a B-. The detailed conclusions about IB Math, on page 43, however, state as follows:
If a student intends to take more math courses at the university level, it is not clear where that student should be placed. What university math courses have as their prerequisites a small amount of calculus, but no exposure to complex numbers, almost no geometry, a spotty background in trig, a smattering of linear algebra, and a good bit of statistics? Perhaps the answer is "more statistics courses." The reliance on calculators and failure to require memorization of formulas puts students wanting to puruse math in college at a further disadvantage.
In fairness to the IBO program, highly motivated students and those most apt to take math in college follow the more rigorous HL syllabus. While notably more complete and mathematically advanced, some gaps exist even at this level.
If a student intends to take more math courses at the university level, it is not clear where that student should be placed. What university math courses have as their prerequisites a small amount of calculus, but no exposure to complex numbers, almost no geometry, a spotty background in trig, a smattering of linear algebra, and a good bit of statistics? Perhaps the answer is "more statistics courses." The reliance on calculators and failure to require memorization of formulas puts students wanting to puruse math in college at a further disadvantage.
In fairness to the IBO program, highly motivated students and those most apt to take math in college follow the more rigorous HL syllabus. While notably more complete and mathematically advanced, some gaps exist even at this level.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 14, 2007 04:59PM
AP or IB mom,
The post article on this said that both AP and IB were downgraded for too much use of calculators.
The post article on this said that both AP and IB were downgraded for too much use of calculators.
Re: high school redistricting - Fordham Report on AP/IB
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 14, 2007 05:26PM
South Lakes Pyramid Parent,
That's correct. Overreliance on calculators is a problem with both AP and IB, as is lack of emphasis on proofs. It's worth reading the entire report for all four subjects, though, rather than relying on the Washington Post's summary, since the "grades" for the four courses don't seem to fully reflect the written conclusions.
http://www.edexcellence.net/doc/APIB.pdf
That's correct. Overreliance on calculators is a problem with both AP and IB, as is lack of emphasis on proofs. It's worth reading the entire report for all four subjects, though, rather than relying on the Washington Post's summary, since the "grades" for the four courses don't seem to fully reflect the written conclusions.
http://www.edexcellence.net/doc/APIB.pdf
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 14, 2007 06:46PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My child was at South Lakes when North Point
> was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did
> not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood
> Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne
> Elem, Hughes and SL<<<
>
> And you complained when sent to Herndon?
Why do you assume that I complained? I was merely correcting the record, or does the truth not fit your scenario? Does your unhinged and belligerent nature only come out when you post at 4:00am? Sheesh. Get a life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My child was at South Lakes when North Point
> was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did
> not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood
> Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne
> Elem, Hughes and SL<<<
>
> And you complained when sent to Herndon?
Why do you assume that I complained? I was merely correcting the record, or does the truth not fit your scenario? Does your unhinged and belligerent nature only come out when you post at 4:00am? Sheesh. Get a life.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 14, 2007 06:50PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Island is in Vienna. It has a Vienna
> address, they go to church in Vienna, play little
> league in Vienna. They're a part of Vienna.
> Madison is Vienna's high school. A Vienna address
> means Madison high school. Until now anyway.
Neeny, Neeny, Boo-Hoo. Again you display your ignorance. I now live in Vienna and my neighborhood is districted to South Lakes and has always been districted to South Lakes, as are several other Vienna addresses in our area.
Please just go away. You are wrong so many times and your constant harping reminds me of a certain woman running for President.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Island is in Vienna. It has a Vienna
> address, they go to church in Vienna, play little
> league in Vienna. They're a part of Vienna.
> Madison is Vienna's high school. A Vienna address
> means Madison high school. Until now anyway.
Neeny, Neeny, Boo-Hoo. Again you display your ignorance. I now live in Vienna and my neighborhood is districted to South Lakes and has always been districted to South Lakes, as are several other Vienna addresses in our area.
Please just go away. You are wrong so many times and your constant harping reminds me of a certain woman running for President.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 14, 2007 07:06PM
HooTribe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chantilly mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HooTribe Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Chantilly Mom.
> > >
> > > Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and
> > that
> > > is the way it should be. Personally, I just
> > want
> > > better resources for SL. It is unfortunate
> > that
> > > the county is handling this the way it is.
> > >
> > > Quick Question: You said you bought into a
> > > "school district" - my understanding is that
> > you
> > > did not. You bought into an existing "school
> > > boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know
> > you
> > > still don't want to move, but there is a big
> > > differance between the two.
> > >
> > > Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > When people have children they not only buy the
> > house they buy in the area that has the schools
> > they want... you can call it what ever you want
> > honey.
> >
> > This is a fact of life and real estate
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not in a area of fairfax that will be
> > redistricted. I am simply stating the facts as
> to
> > why people are upset.
> >
> > and for you to say that those who's children
> are
> > to be redistricted should just move because
> YOU"RE
> > INSULTED says a lot about who YOU are.
> >
> >
> >
> > why did you buy a home in SL school district?
> >
> >
> >
> > I can tell you why I bought my house in the
> school
> > zones I'm in. Because I wanted my kids to go to
> > Navy, Franklin and Chantilly.
> >
> >
> > sorry that your ego can't take the truth
>
>
> OK Chantilly Mom, calm down - my post was trying
> to be civil. If you need to, please remember to
> take your medication ... As I said, I am happy to
> be in Reston, and bought here partly because of
> Hunters Woods (which we love) and figured changes
> would be made to South Lakes (we guessed right).
>
> Everyone knows that when they buy into Fairfax
> County, there are no guarantees as to where you
> will go to school (except Langley, it seems). If
> people were so smart when they checked what school
> they would go to, they would also have checked the
> boundary map and considered how long it would
> last. As someone already mentioned in a post
> above, you can't objectively look at the way
> Oakton's boundary is drawn and think that it would
> last forever. Same with the Madison island (sorry
> guys).
>
> As I said before, I wish you good luck with the
> process. I hope your ego can handle the truth -
> the board/staff clearly wants to make a change.
everyone does not know that when they buy in Fairfax that there is a chance they could be moved to other schools... Most people who live here have moved here from out of state.
my ego is not in play here dear.
why don't SL parents get more involved in their school in order to increase those test scores before you try to force people to give it a boost with their kids and take a real estate hit in the process.
-------------------------------------------------------
> chantilly mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HooTribe Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Chantilly Mom.
> > >
> > > Glad you like Chantilly - I like Reston and
> > that
> > > is the way it should be. Personally, I just
> > want
> > > better resources for SL. It is unfortunate
> > that
> > > the county is handling this the way it is.
> > >
> > > Quick Question: You said you bought into a
> > > "school district" - my understanding is that
> > you
> > > did not. You bought into an existing "school
> > > boundary". Can anyone clarify this? I know
> > you
> > > still don't want to move, but there is a big
> > > differance between the two.
> > >
> > > Thanks and good luck to you with the process.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > When people have children they not only buy the
> > house they buy in the area that has the schools
> > they want... you can call it what ever you want
> > honey.
> >
> > This is a fact of life and real estate
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not in a area of fairfax that will be
> > redistricted. I am simply stating the facts as
> to
> > why people are upset.
> >
> > and for you to say that those who's children
> are
> > to be redistricted should just move because
> YOU"RE
> > INSULTED says a lot about who YOU are.
> >
> >
> >
> > why did you buy a home in SL school district?
> >
> >
> >
> > I can tell you why I bought my house in the
> school
> > zones I'm in. Because I wanted my kids to go to
> > Navy, Franklin and Chantilly.
> >
> >
> > sorry that your ego can't take the truth
>
>
> OK Chantilly Mom, calm down - my post was trying
> to be civil. If you need to, please remember to
> take your medication ... As I said, I am happy to
> be in Reston, and bought here partly because of
> Hunters Woods (which we love) and figured changes
> would be made to South Lakes (we guessed right).
>
> Everyone knows that when they buy into Fairfax
> County, there are no guarantees as to where you
> will go to school (except Langley, it seems). If
> people were so smart when they checked what school
> they would go to, they would also have checked the
> boundary map and considered how long it would
> last. As someone already mentioned in a post
> above, you can't objectively look at the way
> Oakton's boundary is drawn and think that it would
> last forever. Same with the Madison island (sorry
> guys).
>
> As I said before, I wish you good luck with the
> process. I hope your ego can handle the truth -
> the board/staff clearly wants to make a change.
everyone does not know that when they buy in Fairfax that there is a chance they could be moved to other schools... Most people who live here have moved here from out of state.
my ego is not in play here dear.
why don't SL parents get more involved in their school in order to increase those test scores before you try to force people to give it a boost with their kids and take a real estate hit in the process.
Re: high school redistricting - Fordham Report on AP/IB
Posted by:
SLMom
()
Date: November 14, 2007 07:27PM
Our daughter's IB Math teacher doesn't let them use calculators (or only very infrequently). He feels that calculators are overused in the school systems.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
HooTribe
()
Date: November 14, 2007 07:51PM
OK Chantilly Mom, calm down - my post was trying to be civil. If you need to, please remember to > take your medication ... As I said, I am happy to
> be in Reston, and bought here partly because of Hunters Woods (which we love) and figured changes would be made to South Lakes (we guessed right).
>
> Everyone knows that when they buy into Fairfax
> County, there are no guarantees as to where you
> will go to school (except Langley, it seems). If
> people were so smart when they checked what school
> they would go to, they would also have checked the
> boundary map and considered how long it would
> last. As someone already mentioned in a post
> above, you can't objectively look at the way
> Oakton's boundary is drawn and think that it would
> last forever. Same with the Madison island (sorry
> guys).
>
> As I said before, I wish you good luck with the
> process. I hope your ego can handle the truth -
> the board/staff clearly wants to make a change.
everyone does not know that when they buy in Fairfax that there is a chance they could be moved to other schools... Most people who live here have moved here from out of state.
my ego is not in play here dear.
why don't SL parents get more involved in their school in order to increase those test scores before you try to force people to give it a boost with their kids and take a real estate hit in the process.
Chantilly Mom,
My ego isn't either - that is my point. As for not knowing that they could be moved to other schools - sounds like someone didn't do their homework. To quote you "This is a fact of life and real estate." Not too smart if you and your friends didn't look into that fact if it was so important - don't try to claim ignorance now.
As for improving SL, it will be when it has the same number of programs as other schools. SL isn't forcing anything - the county board is. As I have stated before, I would be fine with a magnet program or students from Langley, but it does not appear that we have that choice.
Calm yourself down and deal with the facts.
> be in Reston, and bought here partly because of Hunters Woods (which we love) and figured changes would be made to South Lakes (we guessed right).
>
> Everyone knows that when they buy into Fairfax
> County, there are no guarantees as to where you
> will go to school (except Langley, it seems). If
> people were so smart when they checked what school
> they would go to, they would also have checked the
> boundary map and considered how long it would
> last. As someone already mentioned in a post
> above, you can't objectively look at the way
> Oakton's boundary is drawn and think that it would
> last forever. Same with the Madison island (sorry
> guys).
>
> As I said before, I wish you good luck with the
> process. I hope your ego can handle the truth -
> the board/staff clearly wants to make a change.
everyone does not know that when they buy in Fairfax that there is a chance they could be moved to other schools... Most people who live here have moved here from out of state.
my ego is not in play here dear.
why don't SL parents get more involved in their school in order to increase those test scores before you try to force people to give it a boost with their kids and take a real estate hit in the process.
Chantilly Mom,
My ego isn't either - that is my point. As for not knowing that they could be moved to other schools - sounds like someone didn't do their homework. To quote you "This is a fact of life and real estate." Not too smart if you and your friends didn't look into that fact if it was so important - don't try to claim ignorance now.
As for improving SL, it will be when it has the same number of programs as other schools. SL isn't forcing anything - the county board is. As I have stated before, I would be fine with a magnet program or students from Langley, but it does not appear that we have that choice.
Calm yourself down and deal with the facts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Doglover
()
Date: November 14, 2007 09:21PM
A LOT of people like Stu Gibson, that is why he won! I want my elected officials to be intelligent, thinking people. I do not want someone who will say whatever it takes to get elected by pandering to the current mob mentality. The entire high school redistricting uproar is ridiculous. This is Fairfax County- filled with excellent schools. It is not some 3rd world country. Kids who are college bound will be college bound whether they graduate from Oakton or South Lakes. Redistricting IS going to happen. Get over it.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 09:25PM
hmmm07 said>>>>the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this will get much more ugly before it gets nice<<<
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had their scenarios as their first or second choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force them to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!! Refuse to throw any neighborhood under the bus so that YOUR neighborhood can escape. Hang together, or you will all hang separately.
I heard exactly the same things from my friends. How will FCPS deal with the top two things that every group wanted? How will they be spinned to be something other than what they are? How can staff say they want community input and then ignore the two things that every group wanted? If they ignore those two things, they will have to admit that the community meetings are a sham and they are going to do whatever the heck they want to do.
At the next meeting, when staff comes out with 2 or 3 scenarios for boundary changes, you must all hang tough and remind staff that NO group had their scenarios as their first or second choice. Remind staff of what the community said, then you'll have to refuse to choose ANY of their scenarios. Refuse to pit one neighborhood against another. Refuse to put parents in a position of making their neighbors angry. Tell them they must go back to square one and involve the entire community BEFORE any decisions are made about boundary changes. It cannot be left up to Stu, Janie, and Kathy, to eliminate any discussion of magnet programs, nor can they be allowed to decide which schools can be considered and which schools, Langley and Madison, will be held harmless. Force them to redo this entire process. Start OVER!!!! Refuse to throw any neighborhood under the bus so that YOUR neighborhood can escape. Hang together, or you will all hang separately.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 14, 2007 09:28PM
>>>I would be fine with a magnet program or students from Langley, but it does not appear that we have that choice.<<<
Why not? If that what the community wants, why isn't that a choice in a PUBLIC school?
Why not? If that what the community wants, why isn't that a choice in a PUBLIC school?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Another Voter
()
Date: November 14, 2007 09:31PM
Based upon the discussion I have read, and the comments I heard at the Town Meeting on Monday, I now believe the following:
1) The majority of parents would like to keep the current districting.
2) The size of South Lakes puts it at a program disadvantage.
3) More parents prefer AP than IB.
My proposal is to offer a competitive academic program at South Lakes by allocating staff based upon school capacity rather than enrollment. Thus, South Lakes would have roughly the same staffing level and teacher quality as Oakton (similar capacity). South Lakes could then have the same course offerings as more highly enrolled schools, including selected AP classes. As an added benefit, South Lakes' average class size would be smaller than the FCPS average. Because of the smaller class sizes, some parents may even elect to pupil place their students in South Lakes for the quality of instruction!
This proposal preserves the current districting keeping most parents happy in that respect, and makes the program of instruction at South Lakes compeitive with the other Western Fairfax County High Schools. Of course, we will have to take a couple of teachers away from the other schools, but it will be fair to all students and schools in Fairfax County (at least the Western Part!)
1) The majority of parents would like to keep the current districting.
2) The size of South Lakes puts it at a program disadvantage.
3) More parents prefer AP than IB.
My proposal is to offer a competitive academic program at South Lakes by allocating staff based upon school capacity rather than enrollment. Thus, South Lakes would have roughly the same staffing level and teacher quality as Oakton (similar capacity). South Lakes could then have the same course offerings as more highly enrolled schools, including selected AP classes. As an added benefit, South Lakes' average class size would be smaller than the FCPS average. Because of the smaller class sizes, some parents may even elect to pupil place their students in South Lakes for the quality of instruction!
This proposal preserves the current districting keeping most parents happy in that respect, and makes the program of instruction at South Lakes compeitive with the other Western Fairfax County High Schools. Of course, we will have to take a couple of teachers away from the other schools, but it will be fair to all students and schools in Fairfax County (at least the Western Part!)
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Doglover
()
Date: November 14, 2007 09:34PM
I was at the meeting, and I would not call 3 policemen "quite a police presence." I do not blame FCC Schools for the need for police. I blame the immature adults who were there. The jeering, cat calls, and disrepectful behavior toward the County staff by supposedly well-educated people was a disgrace. These are the same arrogant parents who are fearful for their children to go to South Lakes with the "bad" kids? Some example they set.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Doglover
()
Date: November 14, 2007 09:53PM
Buying a home based on the school district is ridiculous. To suggest that school boundaries will never change is not logical. They must change as communities change. Redistricting in some format is going to happen. And all the whining and meetings in the world is not going to change that fact. If folks from Oakton, Herndon or wherever don't want their kids to attend SLHS - fine by me. Just send us your tax dollars so we can keep on improving SL, and keep your kids. Smaller classrooms makes for better learning anyway.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Doglover
()
Date: November 14, 2007 10:02PM
EVERY kid in my neighborhood who graduated from South Lakes in the past 2-3 years has gone to an Ivy league school. There are NO parents who send their kids to private schools. We live in Fairfax County for heavens sake, and while I am sure that everyone who posts here believes their kids should all be in the GT programs, most are average kids who will do just fine in school. And if so inclined, will graduate and go to college, whether they graduate from Oakton or South Lakes. Get a grip.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
A FCPS Parent
()
Date: November 14, 2007 10:34PM
Were you at the same meeting the rest of us attended?? I was embarrassed for the FCPS staff that had to present the inaccurate content of the program. This if FCPS, one of the top school systems in the country.
When one staff member was asked about the inclusion of the Westfield/Chantilly football game as over crowded and a reason to reduce the size of the schools - she replied "I didn't want to include that - but they made me" Come on...
The citizens/taxpayers wanted answers and NONE WERE GIVEN. Don't call the crowd immature - we pay the taxes that finance our wonderful school system.
This boundary change needs TO BE STOPPED....Let's make sure the School Board makes mature decisions...NOT POLITICALLY FOR STU AND KATHY DECISIONS.
When one staff member was asked about the inclusion of the Westfield/Chantilly football game as over crowded and a reason to reduce the size of the schools - she replied "I didn't want to include that - but they made me" Come on...
The citizens/taxpayers wanted answers and NONE WERE GIVEN. Don't call the crowd immature - we pay the taxes that finance our wonderful school system.
This boundary change needs TO BE STOPPED....Let's make sure the School Board makes mature decisions...NOT POLITICALLY FOR STU AND KATHY DECISIONS.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 14, 2007 10:49PM
Better get a refund on that Dale Carnegie class, Doglover...
You call others immature, disrepectful and disgrace[ful], warranting police presence, then call others arrogant. Your behavior seems the same to me.
You claim differentiating home location on school district is nonsensical, yet you chose to live in Fairfax County, not Washington DC. Just a coincidence? How is that different from choosing Langley vs. Lorton in FCPS?
And we are pleased to hear that every kid in your neighborhood went to an Ivy League school. Puzzled, perhaps, given Ivy League acceptance rate, but still pleased. Clearly this is the exception rather than the norm...not all 1000 SLHS grads in the last 2-3 years went to Ivy League schools.
If you had listened, rather than just bloviated, the issue that unites many people at all schools is: people don't want their kids to have to change schools and programs when their families get little benefit from it. The Navy parents don't want to move from Chantilly to Oakton. The Aldrin folks don't want to move from Herndon even to go to a school in their own community. And yes, many people do not want to have to move to South Lakes...Fox Mill elementary voted 2:1 against Stu Gibson for just that reason, but that's due as much to a desire to stay put as to South Lake's slightly lagging objective performance measures. People exaggerate South Lake's issues to give reasons not to have to move.
One of your posts even says you are fine with South Lakes not receiving extra kids [though you want special financial treatment...is that arrogant?]...similar to FCPS Falls Church high just ten miles away, which today has less than 1400 kids in a school that holds 2000...if that's the case, let's just call off this whole dubious redistricting project.
You call others immature, disrepectful and disgrace[ful], warranting police presence, then call others arrogant. Your behavior seems the same to me.
You claim differentiating home location on school district is nonsensical, yet you chose to live in Fairfax County, not Washington DC. Just a coincidence? How is that different from choosing Langley vs. Lorton in FCPS?
And we are pleased to hear that every kid in your neighborhood went to an Ivy League school. Puzzled, perhaps, given Ivy League acceptance rate, but still pleased. Clearly this is the exception rather than the norm...not all 1000 SLHS grads in the last 2-3 years went to Ivy League schools.
If you had listened, rather than just bloviated, the issue that unites many people at all schools is: people don't want their kids to have to change schools and programs when their families get little benefit from it. The Navy parents don't want to move from Chantilly to Oakton. The Aldrin folks don't want to move from Herndon even to go to a school in their own community. And yes, many people do not want to have to move to South Lakes...Fox Mill elementary voted 2:1 against Stu Gibson for just that reason, but that's due as much to a desire to stay put as to South Lake's slightly lagging objective performance measures. People exaggerate South Lake's issues to give reasons not to have to move.
One of your posts even says you are fine with South Lakes not receiving extra kids [though you want special financial treatment...is that arrogant?]...similar to FCPS Falls Church high just ten miles away, which today has less than 1400 kids in a school that holds 2000...if that's the case, let's just call off this whole dubious redistricting project.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
cheshire cat
()
Date: November 14, 2007 11:05PM
The SB is being mature now. They were not being mature when they chose not to address the issue of underenrollment at South Lakes in the past, in response to mob mentality and an irrational fear of South Lakes. They could have districted neighborhoods to SL that had not yet been built, or they could have restored North Point to SL when Herndon was overcrowded a few years ago. Then when Herndon's enrollment started coming down they could have taken areas now being sent to Westfield, such as Floris and McNair. And they would not have had to make Westfield so big.
All of this could have been avoided if they had only stood firm back then and not listened to the irrational, bigoted mob. Incidentally, before 2001 South Lakes was an AP school with great AP teachers and a wonderful Yale educated principal, and no one wanted to go to South Lakes back then. So what was the excuse for not coming? I'll bet you all can guess.
So spare us the pity party. I am sick of all the whining. When is our community going to get its fair share? We have sacrificed for years, lost potential neighborhoods in boundary changes,some done surreptitiously by builders in cahoots with the School Board, had an IB program dumped on us that we didnt' ask for and were not allowed to vet, endured insults at your football and basketball games, had our children asked whey they wanted to go to a 'ghetto' school.
So quit telling us that we don't have a right to expect an equal return on our tax dollars as you have been enjoying all these years.
All of this could have been avoided if they had only stood firm back then and not listened to the irrational, bigoted mob. Incidentally, before 2001 South Lakes was an AP school with great AP teachers and a wonderful Yale educated principal, and no one wanted to go to South Lakes back then. So what was the excuse for not coming? I'll bet you all can guess.
So spare us the pity party. I am sick of all the whining. When is our community going to get its fair share? We have sacrificed for years, lost potential neighborhoods in boundary changes,some done surreptitiously by builders in cahoots with the School Board, had an IB program dumped on us that we didnt' ask for and were not allowed to vet, endured insults at your football and basketball games, had our children asked whey they wanted to go to a 'ghetto' school.
So quit telling us that we don't have a right to expect an equal return on our tax dollars as you have been enjoying all these years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
cheshire cat
()
Date: November 14, 2007 11:21PM
I should add that even though the parents did not ask for IB, they decided to make the best of the program and have learned to appreciate it, though we would welcome the addition of AP classes in order to please people being moved in.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
cheshire cat
()
Date: November 14, 2007 11:25PM
Dear Oakton Parent, I could not help but notice that you did not iclude the wishes of SL parents who were at the meeting in your post. You wrote about the wishes of Navy, Aldrin, Fox Mill, etc. but nothing about SL. I think that has been our complaint all along...that parents in surrounding districts don't give a s*%$ about what we want. You don't like being called arrogant, but your post is the height of arrogance.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:04AM
>>>So spare us the pity party. I am sick of all the whining. When is our community going to get its fair share? We have sacrificed for years, lost potential neighborhoods in boundary changes,some done surreptitiously by builders in cahoots with the School Board, had an IB program dumped on us that we didnt' ask for and were not allowed to vet, endured insults at your football and basketball games, had our children asked whey they wanted to go to a 'ghetto' school.<<<
Why didn't you move when all that happened? Or send your children to a different school?
>>>So quit telling us that we don't have a right to expect an equal return on our tax dollars as you have been enjoying all these years.<<<
You just got that new, big, renovation. That makes up for some of the tax money, doesn't it? What other money would make it equitable? People would agree to send more money, but not their children. See, most of them did move to a district where they liked the schools.
I'm not sure why you think others should suffer just because you suffered and remained at South Lakes? You made that choice, they made another choice.
Why didn't you move when all that happened? Or send your children to a different school?
>>>So quit telling us that we don't have a right to expect an equal return on our tax dollars as you have been enjoying all these years.<<<
You just got that new, big, renovation. That makes up for some of the tax money, doesn't it? What other money would make it equitable? People would agree to send more money, but not their children. See, most of them did move to a district where they liked the schools.
I'm not sure why you think others should suffer just because you suffered and remained at South Lakes? You made that choice, they made another choice.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:08AM
Another voter,
I like your ideas! FCPS can give South Lakes more resources, and more teachers. Classes could be very small. They can have extra funding, just not the extra bodies. Would that be enough for South Lakes parents?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 03:08AM by Neen.
I like your ideas! FCPS can give South Lakes more resources, and more teachers. Classes could be very small. They can have extra funding, just not the extra bodies. Would that be enough for South Lakes parents?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 03:08AM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:14AM
>>>EVERY kid in my neighborhood who graduated from South Lakes in the past 2-3 years has gone to an Ivy league school<<<
You'll have to pardon us if we find that to be stretching the truth. No school in FCPS, other than TJ, has had 15 or 20 kids go to an Ivy in the last 2 years, from the same neighborhood. If South Lakes had done that, you can bet that FCPS would have a press release about YOUR neighborhood, complete with pictures.
Many TJ kids who are accepted at Ivies choose to attend UVA. I don't suppose that anyone in your neighborhood decided to do the same and save $200,000. You must live in the Mansionville part of Reston, the part where everyone is gifted, everyone goes to the Ivies, and money is of no concern.
You'll have to pardon us if we find that to be stretching the truth. No school in FCPS, other than TJ, has had 15 or 20 kids go to an Ivy in the last 2 years, from the same neighborhood. If South Lakes had done that, you can bet that FCPS would have a press release about YOUR neighborhood, complete with pictures.
Many TJ kids who are accepted at Ivies choose to attend UVA. I don't suppose that anyone in your neighborhood decided to do the same and save $200,000. You must live in the Mansionville part of Reston, the part where everyone is gifted, everyone goes to the Ivies, and money is of no concern.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:18AM
>>>Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My child was at South Lakes when North Point
> was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did
> not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood
> Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne
> Elem, Hughes and SL<<<
>
> And you complained when sent to Herndon?<<<
You addressed this to the wrong person. This is not my statement.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My child was at South Lakes when North Point
> was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did
> not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood
> Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne
> Elem, Hughes and SL<<<
>
> And you complained when sent to Herndon?<<<
You addressed this to the wrong person. This is not my statement.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 06:10AM
Cheshire Cat,
Name calling ("irrational, bigoted mob") doesn't become you.
Before 1999, South Lakes was close to capacity with 1700 students and couldn't have taken whole school areas such as McNair and Floris.
http://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/0126000566/school.aspx
You say that other schools don't care what you want...when what you want it to tell other kids they have to leave their schools. That looks like a better idea if you are the place where kids don't have to move, and where your kids will be better off afterwards. My issue, at least, with the process and goals of the redistricting, not with South Lakes high. I am neither irrational nor bigoted, at least not in any significant way as regards this discussion.
Name calling ("irrational, bigoted mob") doesn't become you.
Before 1999, South Lakes was close to capacity with 1700 students and couldn't have taken whole school areas such as McNair and Floris.
http://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/0126000566/school.aspx
You say that other schools don't care what you want...when what you want it to tell other kids they have to leave their schools. That looks like a better idea if you are the place where kids don't have to move, and where your kids will be better off afterwards. My issue, at least, with the process and goals of the redistricting, not with South Lakes high. I am neither irrational nor bigoted, at least not in any significant way as regards this discussion.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 07:05AM
Some rationality to address school size issues
In this current situation, the justification for this is the idea that schools should have about 2000 students, and South Lakes, Chantilly and Westfield do not.
After the redistricting, South Lakes will be close to 2000, or so we understand. Chantilly and Westfield still won't be...they'll go from an average of 2900 students to an average of 2600. Hundred of kids will be moved from those schools, while leaving those schools with a "capacity imbalance" that is larger than South Lakes' now. That makes no sense. If you have almost 6000 kids in two schools, and you want to get to 2000/school, you need another school in that part of the county, you don't just move 600 kids out. (Though in practice, you DON"T need to get to 2000 students/school, as shown in Lake Braddock, Robinson, and yes, Chantilly and Westfield. Chantilly and Westfield are fine as they are now.)
Also after the redistricting, Marshall and Falls Church will also be under 1400 students. Marshall is very close to Langley, McLean, and even South Lakes. Falls Church is closer to Reston than is Westfield. If we are rearranging students to get schools to 2000, why are we not addressing these schools? (I wonder if the parents who accuse others of lack of caring about South Lakes spend much time worrying about conditions for the students at Marshall?)
And finally, some practical proposals to address the South Lakes situation:
- Stop the bleeding. (Perhaps done already?) For years, the enrollment "yield" at South Lakes in terms of the percentage of kids who should be there vs. those who end up there has been dropping, by 300 in just the last five years. This accounts for the current underenrollment situation. Those projections are based primarily on the kids in elementary and middle schools. The kids in elementary and middle schools already account for changes in demographics, so there's another factor at work. The housing stock in southern Reston can support 1700 students if that housing all had the people in it you would expect to be there.
- Create attractive alternatives for people to send kids to South Lakes. (And ideally have those people move closer, so they don't need to drive kids all over the place.) I don't think this needs to be another TJ, but certainly you could make a stragic goal to add $1M in teacher salaries/benefits annually, to cover ten teachers would could teach sixty more classes, offering advanced classes with small class sizes...which itself would be a draw. [As a footnote for the new people: my two kids attended the spanish immersion program at Lake Anne...we drove them / carpooled from a Crossfield address to Lake Anne daily for six years, so we know something about the Reston community and schools.]
- Address community continuity. If we need more people for a Reston school, start with the people who live in Reston, and send their kids to Reston community churches, sports programs, etc. In this case, that would be Aldrin elementary. I don't know if this creates a problem at Herdon; in the short term, it would leave Herndon and South Lake at similar size.
- Identify areas of extreme transportation "sub-optimization". There are several long commutes that don't make sense. People within one mile of Herndon high school are bused ten miles to Langley. While I'm a believer in community, if you have a really long skinny community like Great Falls, it will be hard to keep that together if you are also trying to make schools the same size with similar course offerings. I'm aware that the same argument could be used to justify putting Fox Mill into Reston. If that was the only change happening, it would be (to me) justifiable, though they don't want to do that and there are alternatives to doing that.
- If you really just want to move some people out of Westfield and put some more people for South Lakes, then instead of uprooting Fox Mill, instead target the newer and less established community at McNair, which has a long haul now to get to Westfield.
- Last but not least, also take a look at middle school boundaries, and the effect that changes on high school would (or should) have on middle schools.
In this current situation, the justification for this is the idea that schools should have about 2000 students, and South Lakes, Chantilly and Westfield do not.
After the redistricting, South Lakes will be close to 2000, or so we understand. Chantilly and Westfield still won't be...they'll go from an average of 2900 students to an average of 2600. Hundred of kids will be moved from those schools, while leaving those schools with a "capacity imbalance" that is larger than South Lakes' now. That makes no sense. If you have almost 6000 kids in two schools, and you want to get to 2000/school, you need another school in that part of the county, you don't just move 600 kids out. (Though in practice, you DON"T need to get to 2000 students/school, as shown in Lake Braddock, Robinson, and yes, Chantilly and Westfield. Chantilly and Westfield are fine as they are now.)
Also after the redistricting, Marshall and Falls Church will also be under 1400 students. Marshall is very close to Langley, McLean, and even South Lakes. Falls Church is closer to Reston than is Westfield. If we are rearranging students to get schools to 2000, why are we not addressing these schools? (I wonder if the parents who accuse others of lack of caring about South Lakes spend much time worrying about conditions for the students at Marshall?)
And finally, some practical proposals to address the South Lakes situation:
- Stop the bleeding. (Perhaps done already?) For years, the enrollment "yield" at South Lakes in terms of the percentage of kids who should be there vs. those who end up there has been dropping, by 300 in just the last five years. This accounts for the current underenrollment situation. Those projections are based primarily on the kids in elementary and middle schools. The kids in elementary and middle schools already account for changes in demographics, so there's another factor at work. The housing stock in southern Reston can support 1700 students if that housing all had the people in it you would expect to be there.
- Create attractive alternatives for people to send kids to South Lakes. (And ideally have those people move closer, so they don't need to drive kids all over the place.) I don't think this needs to be another TJ, but certainly you could make a stragic goal to add $1M in teacher salaries/benefits annually, to cover ten teachers would could teach sixty more classes, offering advanced classes with small class sizes...which itself would be a draw. [As a footnote for the new people: my two kids attended the spanish immersion program at Lake Anne...we drove them / carpooled from a Crossfield address to Lake Anne daily for six years, so we know something about the Reston community and schools.]
- Address community continuity. If we need more people for a Reston school, start with the people who live in Reston, and send their kids to Reston community churches, sports programs, etc. In this case, that would be Aldrin elementary. I don't know if this creates a problem at Herdon; in the short term, it would leave Herndon and South Lake at similar size.
- Identify areas of extreme transportation "sub-optimization". There are several long commutes that don't make sense. People within one mile of Herndon high school are bused ten miles to Langley. While I'm a believer in community, if you have a really long skinny community like Great Falls, it will be hard to keep that together if you are also trying to make schools the same size with similar course offerings. I'm aware that the same argument could be used to justify putting Fox Mill into Reston. If that was the only change happening, it would be (to me) justifiable, though they don't want to do that and there are alternatives to doing that.
- If you really just want to move some people out of Westfield and put some more people for South Lakes, then instead of uprooting Fox Mill, instead target the newer and less established community at McNair, which has a long haul now to get to Westfield.
- Last but not least, also take a look at middle school boundaries, and the effect that changes on high school would (or should) have on middle schools.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
JustSayin
()
Date: November 15, 2007 08:01AM
Thank you Oakton Parent for laying out the case. The county has not justified why it is a sudden emergency to fill up South Lakes.
The one thing I have to add is that McNair/Floris/Oak Hill ( and Rachel Carson and by implication Westfield and Chantilly) will be involved in a boundary study next fall on boundaries for the Coppermine Elementary which is to open in fall of 2009. Why not wait and do it all at once? Does the school board own stock in Tums?
With all of the high schools involved and the possibility of dominoing -- I estimate that there are 7000 or so 8th - 10th graders who don't know where they are going to high school next year.
The one thing I have to add is that McNair/Floris/Oak Hill ( and Rachel Carson and by implication Westfield and Chantilly) will be involved in a boundary study next fall on boundaries for the Coppermine Elementary which is to open in fall of 2009. Why not wait and do it all at once? Does the school board own stock in Tums?
With all of the high schools involved and the possibility of dominoing -- I estimate that there are 7000 or so 8th - 10th graders who don't know where they are going to high school next year.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 08:43AM
I know people in Fox Mill, Crossfield, and Floris area that would like to be redistricted because of distance, too-big schools etc. You may not have been vocal so far because you fear alienating your neighbors, or that you just don't feel as strongly about it. But I would encourage anyone at Fox Mill, Crossfield, Floris, and Aldrin--if you would like to be redistricted to South Lakes, or would not mind it if certain conditions were met, please email the school board with your preferences. IF AP or grandfathering are issues for you, make that known. You will be much better off if you use the negotiating power you have for these issues. Don't let these STOP RD people represent you at the meetings--go and make your views known. The moratorium is a failed strategy--only people with something constructive to say will be heard.
And JustSayin, this has been in the works for a good three years, and waiting for the renovation to be complete. No "sudden emergency".
And JustSayin, this has been in the works for a good three years, and waiting for the renovation to be complete. No "sudden emergency".
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
chantilly mom
()
Date: November 15, 2007 08:56AM
HooTribe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As for improving SL, it will be when it has the
> same number of programs as other schools. SL
> isn't forcing anything - the county board is. As
> I have stated before, I would be fine with a
> magnet program or students from Langley, but it
> does not appear that we have that choice.
>
> Calm yourself down and deal with the facts.
the facts are
that SL SOL and SAT test scores lag behind Oakton and chantilly
SL is not as good a school or has the same reputation as oakton or Chantilly
people's homes will lose value if they are Rd to SL
but reston's values will increase once the test scores improve.
no wonder so many SL parents are all for this.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As for improving SL, it will be when it has the
> same number of programs as other schools. SL
> isn't forcing anything - the county board is. As
> I have stated before, I would be fine with a
> magnet program or students from Langley, but it
> does not appear that we have that choice.
>
> Calm yourself down and deal with the facts.
the facts are
that SL SOL and SAT test scores lag behind Oakton and chantilly
SL is not as good a school or has the same reputation as oakton or Chantilly
people's homes will lose value if they are Rd to SL
but reston's values will increase once the test scores improve.
no wonder so many SL parents are all for this.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 08:59AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My child was at South Lakes when North Point
> was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did
> not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood
> Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne
> Elem, Hughes and SL<<<
>
> And you complained when sent to Herndon?
Neen, where to begin. You did post this at 3:44 am on Monday. Perhaps your brain is foggy because you stay up all night maniacally posting here.
I did move to get back into the SL district. I never said I didn't like the school. Quit making assumptions.
Madison got a great big renovation a couple of years ago and in my memory, no one begrudged them that, even though they are virtually insulated from having to educate anyone but middle class kids.
I remember about 12 years ago there was a big drug bust at Madison. FC Police placed a young-looking officer in the school and his cover was that he pupil-placed from another school. Lots of kids doing drugs and lots arrested. Did we judge your entire school on that incident? NO
Perhaps you should get some sleep and stop posting under cover of darkness. If you read your posts in the light of day you would realize how ridiculous and unhinged you sound.
Keep up the good work, Seahawks.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>My child was at South Lakes when North Point
> was redistricted to Herndon. Several families did
> not want to go to Herndon. I lived in Longwood
> Grove and it most definitely went to Lake Anne
> Elem, Hughes and SL<<<
>
> And you complained when sent to Herndon?
Neen, where to begin. You did post this at 3:44 am on Monday. Perhaps your brain is foggy because you stay up all night maniacally posting here.
I did move to get back into the SL district. I never said I didn't like the school. Quit making assumptions.
Madison got a great big renovation a couple of years ago and in my memory, no one begrudged them that, even though they are virtually insulated from having to educate anyone but middle class kids.
I remember about 12 years ago there was a big drug bust at Madison. FC Police placed a young-looking officer in the school and his cover was that he pupil-placed from another school. Lots of kids doing drugs and lots arrested. Did we judge your entire school on that incident? NO
Perhaps you should get some sleep and stop posting under cover of darkness. If you read your posts in the light of day you would realize how ridiculous and unhinged you sound.
Keep up the good work, Seahawks.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 09:03AM
Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cheshire Cat,
>
> Name calling ("irrational, bigoted mob") doesn't
> become you.
>
> Before 1999, South Lakes was close to capacity
> with 1700 students and couldn't have taken whole
> school areas such as McNair and Floris.
>
> http://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/01260005
> 66/school.aspx
>
> You say that other schools don't care what you
> want...when what you want it to tell other kids
> they have to leave their schools. That looks like
> a better idea if you are the place where kids
> don't have to move, and where your kids will be
> better off afterwards. My issue, at least, with
> the process and goals of the redistricting, not
> with South Lakes high. I am neither irrational
> nor bigoted, at least not in any significant way
> as regards this discussion.
If you had read my post, you would see that I was referring to past actions, not the present redistricting. Interesting that you took that to mean you. I meant that if North Point had been restored to SL, then Herndon could have absorbed students from McNair or Floris.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cheshire Cat,
>
> Name calling ("irrational, bigoted mob") doesn't
> become you.
>
> Before 1999, South Lakes was close to capacity
> with 1700 students and couldn't have taken whole
> school areas such as McNair and Floris.
>
> http://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/01260005
> 66/school.aspx
>
> You say that other schools don't care what you
> want...when what you want it to tell other kids
> they have to leave their schools. That looks like
> a better idea if you are the place where kids
> don't have to move, and where your kids will be
> better off afterwards. My issue, at least, with
> the process and goals of the redistricting, not
> with South Lakes high. I am neither irrational
> nor bigoted, at least not in any significant way
> as regards this discussion.
If you had read my post, you would see that I was referring to past actions, not the present redistricting. Interesting that you took that to mean you. I meant that if North Point had been restored to SL, then Herndon could have absorbed students from McNair or Floris.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 09:18AM
Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I would argue that Oakton Parent did not lay out the case.
>
> After the redistricting, South Lakes will be close
> to 2000, or so we understand. Chantilly and
> Westfield still won't be...they'll go from an
> average of 2900 students to an average of 2600.
> Hundred of kids will be moved from those schools,
> while leaving those schools with a "capacity
> imbalance" that is larger than South Lakes' now.
> That makes no sense. If you have almost 6000 kids
> in two schools, and you want to get to
> 2000/school, you need another school in that part
> of the county, you don't just move 600 kids out.
> (Though in practice, you DON"T need to get to 2000
> students/school, as shown in Lake Braddock,
> Robinson, and yes, Chantilly and Westfield.
> Chantilly and Westfield are fine as they are
> now.)
Since you profess to care so much about enrollment at Marshall and Falls Church (see your comments below), why not give them the extra students from Westfield and Chantilly. South Lakes has no students to 'give.'
>
> Also after the redistricting, Marshall and Falls
> Church will also be under 1400 students. Marshall
> is very close to Langley, McLean, and even South
> Lakes. Falls Church is closer to Reston than is
> Westfield. If we are rearranging students to get
> schools to 2000, why are we not addressing these
> schools? (I wonder if the parents who accuse
> others of lack of caring about South Lakes spend
> much time worrying about conditions for the
> students at Marshall?)
Reston is close to Marshall? Get a grip. Vienna and Oakton are a lot closer to Marshall. Just look at a map.
>
> And finally, some practical proposals to address
> the South Lakes situation:
>
> - Stop the bleeding. (Perhaps done already?) For
> years, the enrollment "yield" at South Lakes in
> terms of the percentage of kids who should be
> there vs. those who end up there has been
> dropping, by 300 in just the last five years.
> This accounts for the current underenrollment
> situation. Those projections are based primarily
> on the kids in elementary and middle schools. The
> kids in elementary and middle schools already
> account for changes in demographics, so there's
> another factor at work. The housing stock in
> southern Reston can support 1700 students if that
> housing all had the people in it you would expect
> to be there.
This has been discussed many times... Much of the housing stock no longer meets current standards, fewer single family homes(lack of garages, etc.) and desire for larger spaces. Much of the housing formerly occupied by families is now full of young couples, singles just starting out.
>
>
> - Identify areas of extreme transportation
> "sub-optimization". There are several long
> commutes that don't make sense. People within one
> mile of Herndon high school are bused ten miles to
> Langley. While I'm a believer in community, if
> you have a really long skinny community like Great
> Falls, it will be hard to keep that together if
> you are also trying to make schools the same size
> with similar course offerings. I'm aware that the
> same argument could be used to justify putting Fox
> Mill into Reston. If that was the only change
> happening, it would be (to me) justifiable, though
> they don't want to do that and there are
> alternatives to doing that.
If you want to eliminate long, skinny commutes, why are we not looking at Oakton's Boundary, which is very long and skinny and reaches into South Lake's neck of the woods.
>
> - If you really just want to move some people out
> of Westfield and put some more people for South
> Lakes, then instead of uprooting Fox Mill, instead
> target the newer and less established community at
> McNair, which has a long haul now to get to
> Westfield.
Because demographically, it is not fair to move another economically disadvantaged school to the South Lakes Pyramid. Surely you aren't suggesting that we don't already pull our weight regarding students in County funded public housing?
-------------------------------------------------------
I would argue that Oakton Parent did not lay out the case.
>
> After the redistricting, South Lakes will be close
> to 2000, or so we understand. Chantilly and
> Westfield still won't be...they'll go from an
> average of 2900 students to an average of 2600.
> Hundred of kids will be moved from those schools,
> while leaving those schools with a "capacity
> imbalance" that is larger than South Lakes' now.
> That makes no sense. If you have almost 6000 kids
> in two schools, and you want to get to
> 2000/school, you need another school in that part
> of the county, you don't just move 600 kids out.
> (Though in practice, you DON"T need to get to 2000
> students/school, as shown in Lake Braddock,
> Robinson, and yes, Chantilly and Westfield.
> Chantilly and Westfield are fine as they are
> now.)
Since you profess to care so much about enrollment at Marshall and Falls Church (see your comments below), why not give them the extra students from Westfield and Chantilly. South Lakes has no students to 'give.'
>
> Also after the redistricting, Marshall and Falls
> Church will also be under 1400 students. Marshall
> is very close to Langley, McLean, and even South
> Lakes. Falls Church is closer to Reston than is
> Westfield. If we are rearranging students to get
> schools to 2000, why are we not addressing these
> schools? (I wonder if the parents who accuse
> others of lack of caring about South Lakes spend
> much time worrying about conditions for the
> students at Marshall?)
Reston is close to Marshall? Get a grip. Vienna and Oakton are a lot closer to Marshall. Just look at a map.
>
> And finally, some practical proposals to address
> the South Lakes situation:
>
> - Stop the bleeding. (Perhaps done already?) For
> years, the enrollment "yield" at South Lakes in
> terms of the percentage of kids who should be
> there vs. those who end up there has been
> dropping, by 300 in just the last five years.
> This accounts for the current underenrollment
> situation. Those projections are based primarily
> on the kids in elementary and middle schools. The
> kids in elementary and middle schools already
> account for changes in demographics, so there's
> another factor at work. The housing stock in
> southern Reston can support 1700 students if that
> housing all had the people in it you would expect
> to be there.
This has been discussed many times... Much of the housing stock no longer meets current standards, fewer single family homes(lack of garages, etc.) and desire for larger spaces. Much of the housing formerly occupied by families is now full of young couples, singles just starting out.
>
>
> - Identify areas of extreme transportation
> "sub-optimization". There are several long
> commutes that don't make sense. People within one
> mile of Herndon high school are bused ten miles to
> Langley. While I'm a believer in community, if
> you have a really long skinny community like Great
> Falls, it will be hard to keep that together if
> you are also trying to make schools the same size
> with similar course offerings. I'm aware that the
> same argument could be used to justify putting Fox
> Mill into Reston. If that was the only change
> happening, it would be (to me) justifiable, though
> they don't want to do that and there are
> alternatives to doing that.
If you want to eliminate long, skinny commutes, why are we not looking at Oakton's Boundary, which is very long and skinny and reaches into South Lake's neck of the woods.
>
> - If you really just want to move some people out
> of Westfield and put some more people for South
> Lakes, then instead of uprooting Fox Mill, instead
> target the newer and less established community at
> McNair, which has a long haul now to get to
> Westfield.
Because demographically, it is not fair to move another economically disadvantaged school to the South Lakes Pyramid. Surely you aren't suggesting that we don't already pull our weight regarding students in County funded public housing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
quantum
()
Date: November 15, 2007 09:46AM
Oakton Parent - I am curious about the stop the bleeding comment and the enrollment yield. Because SLHS is an underutilized facility, there is legitimate cause for concern. But it strikes me that any plan to address the enrollment yield needs to identify the causes of that problem. And as I understand the question, the yield loss is relative to those that are in elementary school, meaning that somewhere along the way SLHS is losing students before they get to high school. Is the movement of families? This doesn't make sense to me because it strikes me that people less tied to their housing situations would move at the same rates irrespective of the age of their children. Is it the drop out rate - which no school really has a good grip on? But I cannot imagine the drop-out problem being anywhere near that significant so as to account for that kind of shortfall. Is it a private school phenomena? Again, contrary to some posters above, there are families in the Reston area that send their children to private schools (I know a few of them, and they are, as one might guess, well off), but quite honestly my call on these folks is that they would send their kids to private schools no matter what public high school their children would attend - just as with the Oakton district private schoolers I know - so that doesn't seem to be the reason either. Or it could be a gathering storm of factors. Whatever the reasons, however, it is likely someone in the school system knows, and it would be helpful for them to illuminate the reasons behind the yield deficiencies.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
RPN
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:09AM
As a student in the IB course at SLHS, I can honestly say that being in this program has made a world of difference. IB classes versus "regular" classes are so different in many aspects. If redistricting occurs, parents from Oakton, Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, and Herndon should know that their children will get one of the best educations that could be provided. IB focuses on skills that are more important in college, such as writing, thinking analytically, and looking at the bigger picture. To get the IB Diploma, students must take 7 IB classes, including Theory of Knowledge, complete over 150 service hours, and write a 4,000 word Extended essay. This is no easy task for any teenager with a social life, school sports, job, etc. Getting a wonderful education at South Lakes is available to anyone who wants it. So, parents, please know that if your child goes to SL, they will get a great education. This is my third year here, and not once have I ever been involved in any violence, gangs, or drugs. Nothing has prevented me from doing the best I can. Because of the IB program and the great staff here at South Lakes, I am challenged to think and do above and beyond. With that, I would not choose to go anywhere else.
-- Proud South Lakes student
-- Proud South Lakes student
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nappy
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:10AM
Is anyone familiar with the sports eligibility requirements for pupil placed students? The course selection guide says that students who are pupil placed may relinquish their eligibility to participate in sports.
What are the factors?
What are the factors?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:11AM
For cheshire cat...
Sigh...I don't think we're going to see eye to eye...though clearly I did suggest several things that you agree with...but to address a bunch of things quickly...
I wasn't saying you called me those names, that's not really the point.
All of North Point wouldn't have fit in South Lakes at the time of the last redistricting. Aldrin might have fit.
The Westfield part of McNair is actually not so bad, they do well at Rachel Carson, but I understand the issues. You don't know the McNair kids, but don't want them at South Lakes based just on assumed demographics. Isn't that the sort of behavior that elicits name calling when seen in the other direction?
I understand that you don't move kids out of small schools, e.g. from South Lakes to Marshall etc. Gimme a break. I meant to look at all the schools with low enrollments and see what to do about them...live with them, get them more students from other schools, eventually consolidate them, whatever.
Busing from Westfield to Falls Church is clearly unworkable given the distance, I assume you know that...but you can never tell.
The housing stock didn't suddenly deteriorate. Families with kids did move out though, between elementary and high school, you can see it in the historical enrollment data. That's the problem. The Vienna housing stock is similar in many ways, but they don't have that issue.
You said why not look at Oakton's boundary, right below where I talked about Fox Mill, which is the end of Oakton's boundary. Oakton is otherwise at capacity, and would still be reasonable size even without Fox Mill..any other change would involve boundaries of schools like Madison and Fairfax which are right next to Oakton (and which account for the long skinny district, which is actually a lot more compact than it used to be.)
I believe the eastern edge of South Laskes boundary touches the western edge of Marshall near the toll road east of Hunter Mill. That's why I said it was nearby...can't get much closer than adjacent boundaries.
Sigh...I don't think we're going to see eye to eye...though clearly I did suggest several things that you agree with...but to address a bunch of things quickly...
I wasn't saying you called me those names, that's not really the point.
All of North Point wouldn't have fit in South Lakes at the time of the last redistricting. Aldrin might have fit.
The Westfield part of McNair is actually not so bad, they do well at Rachel Carson, but I understand the issues. You don't know the McNair kids, but don't want them at South Lakes based just on assumed demographics. Isn't that the sort of behavior that elicits name calling when seen in the other direction?
I understand that you don't move kids out of small schools, e.g. from South Lakes to Marshall etc. Gimme a break. I meant to look at all the schools with low enrollments and see what to do about them...live with them, get them more students from other schools, eventually consolidate them, whatever.
Busing from Westfield to Falls Church is clearly unworkable given the distance, I assume you know that...but you can never tell.
The housing stock didn't suddenly deteriorate. Families with kids did move out though, between elementary and high school, you can see it in the historical enrollment data. That's the problem. The Vienna housing stock is similar in many ways, but they don't have that issue.
You said why not look at Oakton's boundary, right below where I talked about Fox Mill, which is the end of Oakton's boundary. Oakton is otherwise at capacity, and would still be reasonable size even without Fox Mill..any other change would involve boundaries of schools like Madison and Fairfax which are right next to Oakton (and which account for the long skinny district, which is actually a lot more compact than it used to be.)
I believe the eastern edge of South Laskes boundary touches the western edge of Marshall near the toll road east of Hunter Mill. That's why I said it was nearby...can't get much closer than adjacent boundaries.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:21AM
Since the population in Reston is "aging in place", maybe the county should consider closing SL as a school, sending the students to the surrounding high schools, sell it to Sunrise, and turning it in to an assisted living community.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:28AM
Oakton Parent,
I did not really mean to suggest that students be bused to Marshall and Falls Church. I think we are really the western part of the County and they are the central/Eastern part. They probably can't be looked at together. I think there is actually a Madison buffer between our boundary and Marshall's. In the Hunter Mill area North of the Toll Road there are McLean pockets, Madison pockets, and Langley pockets.
Vienna's housing stock is entirely different, by virtue of the fact that it is almost entirely comprised of single family homes on nice sized lots. Very easy to redevelop one by one, as can be seen all over Vienna today. Reston has townhome developments which are not easy to redevelop for obvious reasons. Vienna also has virtually no low-income housing.
Yes, lots of young people start in Reston because the above-mentioned homes are affordable, but when they are ready to move up, there are not as many choices here, so they move further west, usually.
I don't want you to agree, just acknowledge that we parents in the SL community also have a stake in this. As I noted before, you did not list their wishes when you recapped the desires of parents at the boundary meeting, and I just thought that was interesting. We are also 'customers' here.
I did not really mean to suggest that students be bused to Marshall and Falls Church. I think we are really the western part of the County and they are the central/Eastern part. They probably can't be looked at together. I think there is actually a Madison buffer between our boundary and Marshall's. In the Hunter Mill area North of the Toll Road there are McLean pockets, Madison pockets, and Langley pockets.
Vienna's housing stock is entirely different, by virtue of the fact that it is almost entirely comprised of single family homes on nice sized lots. Very easy to redevelop one by one, as can be seen all over Vienna today. Reston has townhome developments which are not easy to redevelop for obvious reasons. Vienna also has virtually no low-income housing.
Yes, lots of young people start in Reston because the above-mentioned homes are affordable, but when they are ready to move up, there are not as many choices here, so they move further west, usually.
I don't want you to agree, just acknowledge that we parents in the SL community also have a stake in this. As I noted before, you did not list their wishes when you recapped the desires of parents at the boundary meeting, and I just thought that was interesting. We are also 'customers' here.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 10:30AM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know people in Fox Mill, Crossfield, and Floris
> area that would like to be redistricted because of
> distance, too-big schools etc. You may not have
> been vocal so far because you fear alienating your
> neighbors, or that you just don't feel as strongly
> about it. But I would encourage anyone at Fox
> Mill, Crossfield, Floris, and Aldrin--if you would
> like to be redistricted to South Lakes, or would
> not mind it if certain conditions were met, please
> email the school board with your preferences. IF
> AP or grandfathering are issues for you, make that
> known. You will be much better off if you use the
> negotiating power you have for these issues.
> Don't let these STOP RD people represent you at
> the meetings--go and make your views known. The
> moratorium is a failed strategy--only people with
> something constructive to say will be heard.
>
>
>
> And JustSayin, this has been in the works for a
> good three years, and waiting for the renovation
> to be complete. No "sudden emergency".
As I have said several times before, parents who want their kids to attend SL can pupil place any time they want. They don't have to have a boundary change. Transportation might be an issue, but considering that one of the reasons those parents like the idea of SL is because it's closer, maybe they can work something out, carpool, etc. If they want to go to SL, great, they can go, those who don't want to can continue with Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know people in Fox Mill, Crossfield, and Floris
> area that would like to be redistricted because of
> distance, too-big schools etc. You may not have
> been vocal so far because you fear alienating your
> neighbors, or that you just don't feel as strongly
> about it. But I would encourage anyone at Fox
> Mill, Crossfield, Floris, and Aldrin--if you would
> like to be redistricted to South Lakes, or would
> not mind it if certain conditions were met, please
> email the school board with your preferences. IF
> AP or grandfathering are issues for you, make that
> known. You will be much better off if you use the
> negotiating power you have for these issues.
> Don't let these STOP RD people represent you at
> the meetings--go and make your views known. The
> moratorium is a failed strategy--only people with
> something constructive to say will be heard.
>
>
>
> And JustSayin, this has been in the works for a
> good three years, and waiting for the renovation
> to be complete. No "sudden emergency".
As I have said several times before, parents who want their kids to attend SL can pupil place any time they want. They don't have to have a boundary change. Transportation might be an issue, but considering that one of the reasons those parents like the idea of SL is because it's closer, maybe they can work something out, carpool, etc. If they want to go to SL, great, they can go, those who don't want to can continue with Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:02AM
FCO Parent,
Pupil placing clearly has downsides--no transportation, your child is going to a different school than the rest of the neighborhood, etc. That's why most people don't pupil place. Also sounds like limited sports participation. Believe it or not, there are probably people in your neighborhood that want to go to SL, but are afraid to say so in front of the bullies at STOP RD. I know at least a few. They should have a voice too.
Pupil placing clearly has downsides--no transportation, your child is going to a different school than the rest of the neighborhood, etc. That's why most people don't pupil place. Also sounds like limited sports participation. Believe it or not, there are probably people in your neighborhood that want to go to SL, but are afraid to say so in front of the bullies at STOP RD. I know at least a few. They should have a voice too.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nappy
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:19AM
SLPP,
Say I want to pupil place for IB. I do not live in an area (at least I don't think I do) that will be affected by this boundary change. My concern would be that if I do this for the academics/IB program, would my child give up the ability to participate in scholastic sports offered by SL?
I saw that there were some schools in PG county that had to forfeit football games because some of the team members did not live within the school boundary.
Say I want to pupil place for IB. I do not live in an area (at least I don't think I do) that will be affected by this boundary change. My concern would be that if I do this for the academics/IB program, would my child give up the ability to participate in scholastic sports offered by SL?
I saw that there were some schools in PG county that had to forfeit football games because some of the team members did not live within the school boundary.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nappy
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:24AM
Along the same lines as sports participation, what about any activity that competes, such as band? Are those activities subject to the same restrictions, if there are any?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
youknow
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:26AM
I'm pretty sure they can still participate in sports. A couple friends of mine pupil placed from Herndon and were still on the volleyball and lacrosse teams.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:27AM
Cheshire Cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent,
>
> I did not really mean to suggest that students be
> bused to Marshall and Falls Church. I think we
> are really the western part of the County and they
> are the central/Eastern part. They probably can't
> be looked at together. I think there is actually a
> Madison buffer between our boundary and
> Marshall's. In the Hunter Mill area North of the
> Toll Road there are McLean pockets, Madison
> pockets, and Langley pockets.
>
> Vienna's housing stock is entirely different, by
> virtue of the fact that it is almost entirely
> comprised of single family homes on nice sized
> lots. Very easy to redevelop one by one, as can
> be seen all over Vienna today. Reston has
> townhome developments which are not easy to
> redevelop for obvious reasons. Vienna also has
> virtually no low-income housing.
>
> Yes, lots of young people start in Reston because
> the above-mentioned homes are affordable, but when
> they are ready to move up, there are not as many
> choices here, so they move further west, usually.
>
>
> I don't want you to agree, just acknowledge that
> we parents in the SL community also have a stake
> in this. As I noted before, you did not list
> their wishes when you recapped the desires of
> parents at the boundary meeting, and I just
> thought that was interesting. We are also
> 'customers' here.
Here here Cheshire Cat.
I heard at the meeting some parents complain that their neighborhoods have been redistricted several times in the last 10 years. I understand their position entirely. Also some neighborhoods that are split among several schools. I understand their sentiments. But if they stand behind the moratorium and refuse to talk about anything but a moratorium, they are losing the opportunity to advocate for their neighborhood and having any chance of affecting the outcome.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 11:28AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent,
>
> I did not really mean to suggest that students be
> bused to Marshall and Falls Church. I think we
> are really the western part of the County and they
> are the central/Eastern part. They probably can't
> be looked at together. I think there is actually a
> Madison buffer between our boundary and
> Marshall's. In the Hunter Mill area North of the
> Toll Road there are McLean pockets, Madison
> pockets, and Langley pockets.
>
> Vienna's housing stock is entirely different, by
> virtue of the fact that it is almost entirely
> comprised of single family homes on nice sized
> lots. Very easy to redevelop one by one, as can
> be seen all over Vienna today. Reston has
> townhome developments which are not easy to
> redevelop for obvious reasons. Vienna also has
> virtually no low-income housing.
>
> Yes, lots of young people start in Reston because
> the above-mentioned homes are affordable, but when
> they are ready to move up, there are not as many
> choices here, so they move further west, usually.
>
>
> I don't want you to agree, just acknowledge that
> we parents in the SL community also have a stake
> in this. As I noted before, you did not list
> their wishes when you recapped the desires of
> parents at the boundary meeting, and I just
> thought that was interesting. We are also
> 'customers' here.
Here here Cheshire Cat.
I heard at the meeting some parents complain that their neighborhoods have been redistricted several times in the last 10 years. I understand their position entirely. Also some neighborhoods that are split among several schools. I understand their sentiments. But if they stand behind the moratorium and refuse to talk about anything but a moratorium, they are losing the opportunity to advocate for their neighborhood and having any chance of affecting the outcome.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 11:28AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Seahawk
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:32AM
Dear Nappy,
I don't think it is an issue. I think they probably do that to keep star athletes from switching to winning teams. Having said that, I know of two good football players who switched from SL to Herndon in 2005, because they thought they would fare better with college recruiting. I did not agree with their move, but they weren't prevented from playing at Herndon. Fancy that!
South Lakes actually needs more kids trying out for activities, and we aren't afraid of being supplanted by newcomers if they are indeed better and deserving of slots on our teams and in our performing arts groups. We are very concerned about academics, though, which is our primary impetus for supporting redistricting.
I don't think it is an issue. I think they probably do that to keep star athletes from switching to winning teams. Having said that, I know of two good football players who switched from SL to Herndon in 2005, because they thought they would fare better with college recruiting. I did not agree with their move, but they weren't prevented from playing at Herndon. Fancy that!
South Lakes actually needs more kids trying out for activities, and we aren't afraid of being supplanted by newcomers if they are indeed better and deserving of slots on our teams and in our performing arts groups. We are very concerned about academics, though, which is our primary impetus for supporting redistricting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Seahawk
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:34AM
Question for Neen:
If you are so supportive of students attending their community schools, as you are about Madison, do you support North Point Reston kids being returned to SL from Herndon? If not, then why not, assuming that AP courses are added?
If you are so supportive of students attending their community schools, as you are about Madison, do you support North Point Reston kids being returned to SL from Herndon? If not, then why not, assuming that AP courses are added?
Re: high school redistricting-More Detail on AP/IB Math Analysis
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:44AM
Professor David Klein was asked by Fordham to analyze the IB SL Math and AP Calc AB curricula, and rate them. He submitted a draft to Fordham that rated AP Calc AB as slightly better than IB SL Math:
http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/IBAP.html
Fordham changed his ratings of the IB and AP math classes without significantly changing the underlying analysis.
Note, also, that the Fordham report did not analyze HL Math or AP Calc BC.
http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/IBAP.html
Fordham changed his ratings of the IB and AP math classes without significantly changing the underlying analysis.
Note, also, that the Fordham report did not analyze HL Math or AP Calc BC.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:47AM
AP or IB mom,
Do you have the link for the AP vs. IB document discussed at the PTSA meeting last night? Sounds very detailed and would probably answer most people's questions.
Do you have the link for the AP vs. IB document discussed at the PTSA meeting last night? Sounds very detailed and would probably answer most people's questions.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:57AM
I'm sorry, but I'm not in the South Lakes pyramid so I don't know what document you are referring to. If you explain more about what people said about it, perhaps I could help.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
nappy
()
Date: November 15, 2007 12:01PM
Seahawk,
Thanks. I agree it should be about the academics. It would be a shame however to lose out on participating in some high school sports or activities that help create fond memories if you chose to pupil place.
Thanks. I agree it should be about the academics. It would be a shame however to lose out on participating in some high school sports or activities that help create fond memories if you chose to pupil place.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 12:01PM
nappy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP,
> Say I want to pupil place for IB. I do not live
> in an area (at least I don't think I do) that will
> be affected by this boundary change. My concern
> would be that if I do this for the academics/IB
> program, would my child give up the ability to
> participate in scholastic sports offered by SL?
>
> I saw that there were some schools in PG county
> that had to forfeit football games because some of
> the team members did not live within the school
> boundary.
Sounds like you got your answer...I don't really know too much about sports.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP,
> Say I want to pupil place for IB. I do not live
> in an area (at least I don't think I do) that will
> be affected by this boundary change. My concern
> would be that if I do this for the academics/IB
> program, would my child give up the ability to
> participate in scholastic sports offered by SL?
>
> I saw that there were some schools in PG county
> that had to forfeit football games because some of
> the team members did not live within the school
> boundary.
Sounds like you got your answer...I don't really know too much about sports.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SL Student
()
Date: November 15, 2007 01:43PM
UHMM OUR SCORES HAVE GOTTEN MUCH BETTER AND ALL OF YOU PARENTS WHO DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AT SOUTH LAKES AND LISTEN TO MEDIA ALL THE TIME NEED TO REALIZE ITS JUST HYPED STUFF YOU [WHITE] PEOPLE NEED TO STOP BEING SO JUDGEMENTAL AND IGNORANT AND REALIZE YOUR ACTING LIKE CHILDREN.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
foxmill/carson/oakton parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 01:53PM
South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCO Parent,
> Pupil placing clearly has downsides--no
> transportation, your child is going to a different
> school than the rest of the neighborhood, etc.
> That's why most people don't pupil place. Also
> sounds like limited sports participation. Believe
> it or not, there are probably people in your
> neighborhood that want to go to SL, but are afraid
> to say so in front of the bullies at STOP RD. I
> know at least a few. They should have a voice
> too.
Yes, I realize it has downsides. I'm just pointing out that it would allow the people who want to go there to do so without all the disruption to the rest of the communities. I just hope that IF boundary changes are put on hold, those who wanted to change to SL will go ahead and do it, providing their own transport as needed. I know that a lot of seniors and some juniors drive themselves to school anyway. Another issue is breaking up friendships, but that happens anyway around here. Carson goes to three different high schools, Franklin at least two. I don't seriously think that enough people would pupil place to fill up SL, but whenever anyone says that they would like to go to SL, I feel like saying, "Go ahead!" If I didn't already have a kid at Oakton and have the worries about the math IB, I'd consider it myself. I believe that academic kids at SL probably have a better chance for college admissions and it sounds like a decent enough place. However, for me and my family, I'd rather keep Oakton all things considered.
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCO Parent,
> Pupil placing clearly has downsides--no
> transportation, your child is going to a different
> school than the rest of the neighborhood, etc.
> That's why most people don't pupil place. Also
> sounds like limited sports participation. Believe
> it or not, there are probably people in your
> neighborhood that want to go to SL, but are afraid
> to say so in front of the bullies at STOP RD. I
> know at least a few. They should have a voice
> too.
Yes, I realize it has downsides. I'm just pointing out that it would allow the people who want to go there to do so without all the disruption to the rest of the communities. I just hope that IF boundary changes are put on hold, those who wanted to change to SL will go ahead and do it, providing their own transport as needed. I know that a lot of seniors and some juniors drive themselves to school anyway. Another issue is breaking up friendships, but that happens anyway around here. Carson goes to three different high schools, Franklin at least two. I don't seriously think that enough people would pupil place to fill up SL, but whenever anyone says that they would like to go to SL, I feel like saying, "Go ahead!" If I didn't already have a kid at Oakton and have the worries about the math IB, I'd consider it myself. I believe that academic kids at SL probably have a better chance for college admissions and it sounds like a decent enough place. However, for me and my family, I'd rather keep Oakton all things considered.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SL STUDENT
()
Date: November 15, 2007 01:58PM
Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow...
>
> "I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the
> idea of redistricting for the purpose of relieving
> overpopulated schools by bringing more students
> (and their families) to our South Lakes HS
> "community." However, after attending Monday
> night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have
> decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South
> Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish,
> uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I
> witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can
> to keep yourselves and your children as far away
> as possible from our extremely intelligent,
> diverse, talented, open-minded, and global
> thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven
> forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to
> think of the negative impact that your bullying
> personalities would have on our children. Oh, and
> echoing a question that I heard several times at
> the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY
> VALUES!?!?!"
>
> Your kids will never come into contact with most
> of these parents, since only a few of them can be
> parents of kids moving to South Lakes. Feel
> better now?
>
> However, any kids who DO go to South Lakes will
> "be exposed" to you, since you'll be around right?
> Not assigning blame, just an observation. How
> does this motivate those parents whose kids could
> be moved to feel their kids will be going to a
> good environment?
>
> A lot of people expressed a strong preference for
> "overcrowding" vs. redistricting. They also
> expressed that if the South Lakes boundary area
> needs to be enlarged, it should be done looking at
> all schools around South Lakes, including e.g.
> Madison, which is forecast to be overcrowded in
> the future.
You moron westfield, oakton, langley, and madison are both "around" South Lakes how about you look at the districting make before you open your ignorant ass mouth...geez! what the hell is wrong with you people you need to think before you say shit!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow...
>
> "I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the
> idea of redistricting for the purpose of relieving
> overpopulated schools by bringing more students
> (and their families) to our South Lakes HS
> "community." However, after attending Monday
> night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have
> decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South
> Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish,
> uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I
> witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can
> to keep yourselves and your children as far away
> as possible from our extremely intelligent,
> diverse, talented, open-minded, and global
> thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven
> forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to
> think of the negative impact that your bullying
> personalities would have on our children. Oh, and
> echoing a question that I heard several times at
> the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY
> VALUES!?!?!"
>
> Your kids will never come into contact with most
> of these parents, since only a few of them can be
> parents of kids moving to South Lakes. Feel
> better now?
>
> However, any kids who DO go to South Lakes will
> "be exposed" to you, since you'll be around right?
> Not assigning blame, just an observation. How
> does this motivate those parents whose kids could
> be moved to feel their kids will be going to a
> good environment?
>
> A lot of people expressed a strong preference for
> "overcrowding" vs. redistricting. They also
> expressed that if the South Lakes boundary area
> needs to be enlarged, it should be done looking at
> all schools around South Lakes, including e.g.
> Madison, which is forecast to be overcrowded in
> the future.
You moron westfield, oakton, langley, and madison are both "around" South Lakes how about you look at the districting make before you open your ignorant ass mouth...geez! what the hell is wrong with you people you need to think before you say shit!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SRE
()
Date: November 15, 2007 02:32PM
SL STUDENT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You moron westfield, oakton, langley, and madison
> are both "around" South Lakes how about you look
> at the districting make before you open your
> ignorant ass mouth...
Anyone get the feeling that this shows the level of education one can get from South Lakes? I will spend the rest of my day trying to figure out how 4 things can "both" be something... (not really, it is almost happy hour!)
> geez! what the hell is wrong
> with you people you need to think before you say
> shit!
Maybe SL STUDENT should review before posting!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 02:32PM by SRE.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You moron westfield, oakton, langley, and madison
> are both "around" South Lakes how about you look
> at the districting make before you open your
> ignorant ass mouth...
Anyone get the feeling that this shows the level of education one can get from South Lakes? I will spend the rest of my day trying to figure out how 4 things can "both" be something... (not really, it is almost happy hour!)
> geez! what the hell is wrong
> with you people you need to think before you say
> shit!
Maybe SL STUDENT should review before posting!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2007 02:32PM by SRE.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
justamom
()
Date: November 15, 2007 02:32PM
SL STUDENT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> You moron westfield, oakton, langley, and madison
> are both "around" South Lakes how about you look
> at the districting make before you open your
> ignorant ass mouth...geez! what the hell is wrong
> with you people you need to think before you say
> shit!
Are you a typical South Lakes Student or one of the high achieving IB students?
-------------------------------------------------------
>> You moron westfield, oakton, langley, and madison
> are both "around" South Lakes how about you look
> at the districting make before you open your
> ignorant ass mouth...geez! what the hell is wrong
> with you people you need to think before you say
> shit!
Are you a typical South Lakes Student or one of the high achieving IB students?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 02:47PM
I sure hope somebody is pulling our leg on this one...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 02:55PM
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 02:58PM
Offended Parents (Oakton Parent, JustaMom, and SRE):
SL Student could have worded the post better, or thought before clicking, but I would not be so quick to judge all SL students. After all, were the Virginia Tech shooter or the cop-killer shooter typical Westfield students? Was the drunk driver who killed his friend the typical Oakton student? I don't think I have ever read anyone on this post insulting students from other schools. yet SL students have been insulted several times. One deserves it, but the others didn't.
For the most part, I applaud SL students for being involved on this forum. I have read many passionately posting here about their love for the school. I don't recall seeing any Oakton, Westfield, or Chantilly students posting here. Their parents seem to be more passionate than they about the issue. Please, don't now prompt them to post. I will be suspicious of any perfectly written ones ;).
SL Student could have worded the post better, or thought before clicking, but I would not be so quick to judge all SL students. After all, were the Virginia Tech shooter or the cop-killer shooter typical Westfield students? Was the drunk driver who killed his friend the typical Oakton student? I don't think I have ever read anyone on this post insulting students from other schools. yet SL students have been insulted several times. One deserves it, but the others didn't.
For the most part, I applaud SL students for being involved on this forum. I have read many passionately posting here about their love for the school. I don't recall seeing any Oakton, Westfield, or Chantilly students posting here. Their parents seem to be more passionate than they about the issue. Please, don't now prompt them to post. I will be suspicious of any perfectly written ones ;).
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Oakton Parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:17PM
My point was I have no reason to think that the person who signed their name SL STUDENT to that last post is, in fact, a South Lakes student. That post was factually incorrect, grammatically lacking and profanely offensive, so I assume its not from a South Lakes student. You can choose the name you use for each post, so it could be someone trying to spoof us.
But I do worry a bit that you thought it probably was from an SL student, who "could have worded the post better".
And for the record, we (or at least the people I talk to about this) understand that people from South Lakes are pretty much 100% in favor of the redistricting, for all the reasons that have been said here...South Lakes improves, and no South Lakes students get evicted. If I never cited that, it was only because I assumed it was common knowledge.
But I do worry a bit that you thought it probably was from an SL student, who "could have worded the post better".
And for the record, we (or at least the people I talk to about this) understand that people from South Lakes are pretty much 100% in favor of the redistricting, for all the reasons that have been said here...South Lakes improves, and no South Lakes students get evicted. If I never cited that, it was only because I assumed it was common knowledge.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:32PM
Dear Oakton P,
I just took the post at face value and of course I did not agree with it for all the reasons you cite. I've gotten to the point that I don't want to assume anything on this site. I don't know any SL students who would have written that post and I don't think that the post is typical at all of our students.
Interesting story: Last year our pep squad attended a basketball game at Madison (my son included). Bruce Butler was there as well. Some of the Madison Parents (not students) who were sitting behind our section were not being nice. They were saying offensive things about South Lakes and my son felt that they were trying to pick a fight. One of our students suggested that all of the SL students just avoid confrontation and move en mass. Bruce Butler became aware the situation and spoke with Madison's principal, who asked his parents to calm down and/or move if they didn't want to be behind our section. He congratulated Bruce on the fine behavior and good sportsmanship that our students displayed.
I think that story is much more typical of what I have witnessed over the years.
I just took the post at face value and of course I did not agree with it for all the reasons you cite. I've gotten to the point that I don't want to assume anything on this site. I don't know any SL students who would have written that post and I don't think that the post is typical at all of our students.
Interesting story: Last year our pep squad attended a basketball game at Madison (my son included). Bruce Butler was there as well. Some of the Madison Parents (not students) who were sitting behind our section were not being nice. They were saying offensive things about South Lakes and my son felt that they were trying to pick a fight. One of our students suggested that all of the SL students just avoid confrontation and move en mass. Bruce Butler became aware the situation and spoke with Madison's principal, who asked his parents to calm down and/or move if they didn't want to be behind our section. He congratulated Bruce on the fine behavior and good sportsmanship that our students displayed.
I think that story is much more typical of what I have witnessed over the years.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:38PM
FCO Parent,
If you read the IB/AP document above, you will get a much better idea of IB math. All in all, IB and AP math sound pretty equivalent.
If you read the IB/AP document above, you will get a much better idea of IB math. All in all, IB and AP math sound pretty equivalent.
AP / IB and US History
Posted by:
Professor
()
Date: November 15, 2007 03:59PM
For SL students and parents, I have heard that IB does not have US History as such. What is offered at South Lakes for US History?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 04:31PM
>>>do you support North Point Reston kids being returned to SL from Herndon<<<
Nope, because that would leave Herndon just like South Lakes is now, very under enrolled, with very large population of low achieving students. That's just moving the problem from one school to another.
Nope, because that would leave Herndon just like South Lakes is now, very under enrolled, with very large population of low achieving students. That's just moving the problem from one school to another.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 04:37PM
Chesire Cat,
Have you ever been to any other sports event? Have you ever been to a college football game? Rival teams say awful things about the other school. They sing songs about how bad the other school is. No one is picking on South Lakes any more than they pick on any rival school at a football/basketball game.
I find it very hard to believe that a group of Madison PARENTS were trying to pick a fight with another group of parents. Why would they? Suburban parents don't get in fights! Sheeze. I've never heard of any group of parents in Vienna fighting with another group of parents. Sounds rather far fetched, to say the least. If it was old fashion sports rivalry, get over yourself, it happens everywhere sports games are played. No one is singling out South Lakes.
Have you ever been to any other sports event? Have you ever been to a college football game? Rival teams say awful things about the other school. They sing songs about how bad the other school is. No one is picking on South Lakes any more than they pick on any rival school at a football/basketball game.
I find it very hard to believe that a group of Madison PARENTS were trying to pick a fight with another group of parents. Why would they? Suburban parents don't get in fights! Sheeze. I've never heard of any group of parents in Vienna fighting with another group of parents. Sounds rather far fetched, to say the least. If it was old fashion sports rivalry, get over yourself, it happens everywhere sports games are played. No one is singling out South Lakes.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 04:40PM
>>>It would be a shame however to lose out on participating in some high school sports or activities that help create fond memories if you chose to pupil place.<<<
Why would you lose out on anything because you choose to attend another school? Those who pupil place into South Lakes for IB, are they excluded from participating on sports teams? Is that a county rule? If a student pupil places at another school, they can't play sports or participate in activities?
Why would you lose out on anything because you choose to attend another school? Those who pupil place into South Lakes for IB, are they excluded from participating on sports teams? Is that a county rule? If a student pupil places at another school, they can't play sports or participate in activities?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 04:44PM
SL Student,
I have to ask why you are screaming and why you do not use punctuation. It makes it very difficult to read your posts.
FYI, Your is a possessive pronoun, you're means you are.
Are you really a high school student? I seriously doubt it. You sound much younger and much less educated.
Troll, perhaps?
I have to ask why you are screaming and why you do not use punctuation. It makes it very difficult to read your posts.
FYI, Your is a possessive pronoun, you're means you are.
Are you really a high school student? I seriously doubt it. You sound much younger and much less educated.
Troll, perhaps?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
slhs pupil placed student
()
Date: November 15, 2007 04:45PM
As a current student at South Lakes it is hurtful to read some of these comments. I live in the Westfield district and turned down TJHSST for the IB Program at South Lakes. I really encourage parents concerned about the academic quality to take a look the IB Program’s website (www.ibo.org) and look through the curriculum. I am sure that you will find that it the program is rigorous and for students choosing to pursue the IB Diploma, even more difficult than AP. The IB program at South Lakes is amazing, and the teachers at the school are great, in fact, probably that best I have had. Many parents are concerned about the school’s safety and I assure you that Mr. Butler, the current principal, has made a number of changes and enforced a stricter discipline policy; I have never felt unsafe at the school. In addition, parents concerned about the school’s environment should remember that every high school in the county has some problems, whether it is drinking, drugs, smoking etc.; those are present in any high school. I really love South Lakes for the diversity it allows students to experience, both racial and economic, which many people above me have also noted. In summary, South Lakes is a great school, now; the current success of the students should not be undermined by its past reputation and urban myths.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 04:48PM
>>>I don't recall seeing any Oakton, Westfield, or Chantilly students posting here.<<<
Perhaps they are too busy with studying to get involved with the childish antics that go on here.
Perhaps they are too busy with studying to get involved with the childish antics that go on here.
Re: AP / IB and US History
Posted by:
SL Student
()
Date: November 15, 2007 04:53PM
Professor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For SL students and parents, I have heard that IB
> does not have US History as such. What is
> offered at South Lakes for US History?
You are correct in saying that there is no IB US History class, instead, juniors take IB History of the Americas, which covers the histories of both North and South America, with respect to each other and other events around the world. Students taking this course are still adequately prepared to take the Virginia SOL at the end of the year. I hope that answered your question.
-------------------------------------------------------
> For SL students and parents, I have heard that IB
> does not have US History as such. What is
> offered at South Lakes for US History?
You are correct in saying that there is no IB US History class, instead, juniors take IB History of the Americas, which covers the histories of both North and South America, with respect to each other and other events around the world. Students taking this course are still adequately prepared to take the Virginia SOL at the end of the year. I hope that answered your question.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 05:16PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chesire Cat,
> Have you ever been to any other sports event?
> Have you ever been to a college football game?
> Rival teams say awful things about the other
> school. They sing songs about how bad the other
> school is. No one is picking on South Lakes any
> more than they pick on any rival school at a
> football/basketball game.
>
> I find it very hard to believe that a group of
> Madison PARENTS were trying to pick a fight with
> another group of parents. Why would they?
> Suburban parents don't get in fights! Sheeze.
> I've never heard of any group of parents in Vienna
> fighting with another group of parents. Sounds
> rather far fetched, to say the least. If it was
> old fashion sports rivalry, get over yourself, it
> happens everywhere sports games are played. No
> one is singling out South Lakes.
Neen, take a deep breath. If you had read the post, you would see that the Madison parents were being rude to the SL students. Yes, it did happen. Yes, the Madison parents told the SL kids to take a hike. Yes, Bruce Butler confirmed it. Yes, the Madison parents had to be checked by the Madison principal, and yes, parents do sometimes act like asses at sporting events, dare I say even Madison parents.
You really need to take a chill pill. If you would read the posts before commenting, it would be helpful. If you had read carefully, you would have seen that the point of the post was to praise the behavior of our students, not demean the Madison parents.
As to your continual quest to correct the grammar of South Lakes students, I note that you have been corrected several times for spelling and grammatic errors.
As to calling other people site trolls, well...what can I say?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chesire Cat,
> Have you ever been to any other sports event?
> Have you ever been to a college football game?
> Rival teams say awful things about the other
> school. They sing songs about how bad the other
> school is. No one is picking on South Lakes any
> more than they pick on any rival school at a
> football/basketball game.
>
> I find it very hard to believe that a group of
> Madison PARENTS were trying to pick a fight with
> another group of parents. Why would they?
> Suburban parents don't get in fights! Sheeze.
> I've never heard of any group of parents in Vienna
> fighting with another group of parents. Sounds
> rather far fetched, to say the least. If it was
> old fashion sports rivalry, get over yourself, it
> happens everywhere sports games are played. No
> one is singling out South Lakes.
Neen, take a deep breath. If you had read the post, you would see that the Madison parents were being rude to the SL students. Yes, it did happen. Yes, the Madison parents told the SL kids to take a hike. Yes, Bruce Butler confirmed it. Yes, the Madison parents had to be checked by the Madison principal, and yes, parents do sometimes act like asses at sporting events, dare I say even Madison parents.
You really need to take a chill pill. If you would read the posts before commenting, it would be helpful. If you had read carefully, you would have seen that the point of the post was to praise the behavior of our students, not demean the Madison parents.
As to your continual quest to correct the grammar of South Lakes students, I note that you have been corrected several times for spelling and grammatic errors.
As to calling other people site trolls, well...what can I say?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 05:34PM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>do you support North Point Reston kids being
> returned to SL from Herndon<<<
>
> Nope, because that would leave Herndon just like
> South Lakes is now, very under enrolled, with very
> large population of low achieving students.
> That's just moving the problem from one school to
> another.
So why don't you support Madison Island moving to SL, if the goal is to even out the ratio of low achieving students? You can't have it both ways. When it comes to your schoool, you say that you don't care about demographics, but rather about keeping communities together. You want kids who play sports together in youth leagues to stay with their friends all the way through. Yet, you support Reston being split down the middle for the sake of Herndon's demographics. Reston Youth leagues have students from North and South Reston and they get split up for high school. So which argument is it today?
Regarding MI, there are already Vienna address students at South Lakes anyway. Madison does not need the 30/year students from MI, but SL could sure use them. Every little bit helps.
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>do you support North Point Reston kids being
> returned to SL from Herndon<<<
>
> Nope, because that would leave Herndon just like
> South Lakes is now, very under enrolled, with very
> large population of low achieving students.
> That's just moving the problem from one school to
> another.
So why don't you support Madison Island moving to SL, if the goal is to even out the ratio of low achieving students? You can't have it both ways. When it comes to your schoool, you say that you don't care about demographics, but rather about keeping communities together. You want kids who play sports together in youth leagues to stay with their friends all the way through. Yet, you support Reston being split down the middle for the sake of Herndon's demographics. Reston Youth leagues have students from North and South Reston and they get split up for high school. So which argument is it today?
Regarding MI, there are already Vienna address students at South Lakes anyway. Madison does not need the 30/year students from MI, but SL could sure use them. Every little bit helps.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Stephanie
()
Date: November 15, 2007 06:32PM
Hello everyone, I'm currently a student at South Lakes High School. I'm an IB student, meaning I take all IB core classes and an IB elective. I hold a 3.5 GPA and I'm an athlete in the fall and winter on top of everything. I'm amazed by what parents say about our school.
I attended the schools in which many of you are complaining from. Fox Mill, Carson, yes I came from these schools. Coming from these schools I will admit I was a bit nervous when I entered as a freshmen, I was quite afraid I wouldn't fit in, wouldn't make freinds, and wouldn't do well. But I was wrong. I've been challenged at South Lakes since the first step I took through the door.
And through all the challenges I faced, I excelled. I excelled far more then I ever believed possible.
And let me tell you all something, as I would tell my parents. We are all the same. We all see the same things at every school. It is up to us as students, as children, and as responsible human beings to say no. If we don't have the courage to say no, then it doesn't matter where we go to school, we will always be overcome by our obstacles.
It is quite easy I have noticed to pick on South Lakes. Yes, we don't hold records for every team, but look at the number of students that we have compared to other schools. And even with our small numbers we are spirited, and we continue to cheer on our teams.
I guess all I have left to say, is say what you will. We know as Seahawks how truly gifted we are. If we didn't have pride in our school we wouldn't be using our time at home to convince you of it over the computer. Say what you will about us, because we truly don't care. You are allowed every right to point out our problems, but before you judge us truly take a look at yourselves. No school is perfect, every school is truly far from it. Say what you will because we will continue on in the path we have always walked down. We will continue on to success like so many past Seahawks have. And we will always remember South Lakes. We will always remember how great of a school it truly is. So say what you will, say what you will...
And for all of those students unsure of where they are going, unsure of what is next for them, I wish you luck. I can tell you no matter what school you attend you will be welcomed. Oakton, Westfield, Herndon, Madison, Langley AND South Lakes are all fine schools. Everyone has the oppurtunity to excell in any one of them. So good luck all, and I hope you attain what you are fighting for so hardly.
I attended the schools in which many of you are complaining from. Fox Mill, Carson, yes I came from these schools. Coming from these schools I will admit I was a bit nervous when I entered as a freshmen, I was quite afraid I wouldn't fit in, wouldn't make freinds, and wouldn't do well. But I was wrong. I've been challenged at South Lakes since the first step I took through the door.
And through all the challenges I faced, I excelled. I excelled far more then I ever believed possible.
And let me tell you all something, as I would tell my parents. We are all the same. We all see the same things at every school. It is up to us as students, as children, and as responsible human beings to say no. If we don't have the courage to say no, then it doesn't matter where we go to school, we will always be overcome by our obstacles.
It is quite easy I have noticed to pick on South Lakes. Yes, we don't hold records for every team, but look at the number of students that we have compared to other schools. And even with our small numbers we are spirited, and we continue to cheer on our teams.
I guess all I have left to say, is say what you will. We know as Seahawks how truly gifted we are. If we didn't have pride in our school we wouldn't be using our time at home to convince you of it over the computer. Say what you will about us, because we truly don't care. You are allowed every right to point out our problems, but before you judge us truly take a look at yourselves. No school is perfect, every school is truly far from it. Say what you will because we will continue on in the path we have always walked down. We will continue on to success like so many past Seahawks have. And we will always remember South Lakes. We will always remember how great of a school it truly is. So say what you will, say what you will...
And for all of those students unsure of where they are going, unsure of what is next for them, I wish you luck. I can tell you no matter what school you attend you will be welcomed. Oakton, Westfield, Herndon, Madison, Langley AND South Lakes are all fine schools. Everyone has the oppurtunity to excell in any one of them. So good luck all, and I hope you attain what you are fighting for so hardly.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 15, 2007 07:12PM
Thank you Stephanie. You are a credit to South Lakes. I don't need to tell you to ignore the negative comments. You clearly know who you are and where you are going.
All the best and I'm sure you will be successful, whatever you try to achieve in life.
All the best and I'm sure you will be successful, whatever you try to achieve in life.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Doglover
()
Date: November 15, 2007 08:46PM
Your posts are amazingly immature. Your nasty comments are much like the other parents I had the misfortune to encounter on Monday night at the boundary meeting. Perhaps the kids from the other high schools are not posting because they do not have ADULTS attacking their school, their intelligence, their morales, or their teachers. My children will go to SL, and EVERY kid in our neighborhood who has graduated from SL has gone on to Ivy League colleges. Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly do not have a corner on the market when it comes to brains. And clearly, neither do you.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Catlover
()
Date: November 15, 2007 09:22PM
Doglover Wrote:
> my
> children will go to SL, and EVERY kid in our
> neighborhood who has graduated from SL has gone on
> to Ivy League colleges.
WOW,..thats all I can say!!!...most kids in my Oakton neighborhood have not made it into "Ivy League" Colleges...how did the SL kids pull that off????????
> my
> children will go to SL, and EVERY kid in our
> neighborhood who has graduated from SL has gone on
> to Ivy League colleges.
WOW,..thats all I can say!!!...most kids in my Oakton neighborhood have not made it into "Ivy League" Colleges...how did the SL kids pull that off????????
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Catlover
()
Date: November 15, 2007 09:40PM
So Doglover.....are your really sure about that announcement? Because, truly, I don't know any of my neighbors who have made it into any of these... Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton and Yale. So South Lakes is really something else!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
seahawk
()
Date: November 15, 2007 09:45PM
Catlover,there you go proving Doglover's point about SL people being questioned. Perhaps Doglover lives in a small neighborhood full of exceptionally bright students. Four children in my neighborhood of 58 homes graduated South Lakes last year, and all four are attending UVa. I'd say those are pretty good odds.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WhatShit
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:09PM
Dog lover,
You say that all the kids you know... that went to South Lakes... have gone on to Ivy League Schools. hahahahaha.
You might want to spend less time with your dogs.
You say that all the kids you know... that went to South Lakes... have gone on to Ivy League Schools. hahahahaha.
You might want to spend less time with your dogs.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
grid lock
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:16PM
Stop whining about this bs. Just send your brats to school. Tell them to keep their mouths shut and their ears open. If they can make it four years without joining MS13 or getting pregnant then you have reason to be happy. F-ing yuppies.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WhatShit
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:19PM
DogLover, The more I think of it, the funnier you appear. Using the, I'm a doglover, therefore, I must be a nice person.....I recycle, I give to the poor, I volunteer..... so, I'm not a racist...blah blah blah blah
Therefore, I have credibility.... WRONG.
We all love our dogs.
Therefore, I have credibility.... WRONG.
We all love our dogs.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Seahawk
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:28PM
Where to begin, Catlover. Last year SL sent kids to Princeton, MIT, Cornell, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, Wake Forest, Georgetown, many kids to UVA (as many as Langley, BTW),many to W&M. I could go on. This is not to say that kids from other schools didn't get into good schools. I'm sure they did. Just that South Lakes does produce quality students.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:44PM
<<<Perhaps Doglover lives in a small neighborhood full of exceptionally bright students<<<
And they all choose South Lakes over TJ. Interesting.
And they all choose South Lakes over TJ. Interesting.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:50PM
I love my dogs too, even though none of them ever went to an Ivy.
Have you all seen this?
>>>http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=90658&paper=62&cat=104<<<;
Apparently facilities and capacity are not driving this redistricting:
>>>"Strictly from a capacity and facility standpoint, I don't see a compelling reason for the boundary study," said the schools' chief operating office Dean Tistadt at a school board work session Nov. 12.<<<
Who knew? Even the school board didn't know that capacity was not the reason for boundary changes:
>>>AT THE SCHOOL BOARD'S work session, a couple of board members indicated they did not realize that capacity concerns had not factored into the decision to pursue a boundary study.<<<
Unbelievable.
Have you all seen this?
>>>http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=90658&paper=62&cat=104<<<;
Apparently facilities and capacity are not driving this redistricting:
>>>"Strictly from a capacity and facility standpoint, I don't see a compelling reason for the boundary study," said the schools' chief operating office Dean Tistadt at a school board work session Nov. 12.<<<
Who knew? Even the school board didn't know that capacity was not the reason for boundary changes:
>>>AT THE SCHOOL BOARD'S work session, a couple of board members indicated they did not realize that capacity concerns had not factored into the decision to pursue a boundary study.<<<
Unbelievable.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
WhatShit
()
Date: November 15, 2007 11:55PM
SEAHAWK,
You said,
"Perhaps Doglover lives in a small neighborhood full of exceptionally bright students. Four children in my neighborhood of 58 homes graduated South Lakes last year, and all four are attending UVa. I'd say those are pretty good odds."
Doglover's small neighborhood, full of geniuses? Was this some kind of government experiment? Scary.
RE: The 4 kids in your neighborhood who were graduated from S.Lakes and went to college... wonderful... were did all the other kids in the 58 homes go to high school???
You said,
"Perhaps Doglover lives in a small neighborhood full of exceptionally bright students. Four children in my neighborhood of 58 homes graduated South Lakes last year, and all four are attending UVa. I'd say those are pretty good odds."
Doglover's small neighborhood, full of geniuses? Was this some kind of government experiment? Scary.
RE: The 4 kids in your neighborhood who were graduated from S.Lakes and went to college... wonderful... were did all the other kids in the 58 homes go to high school???
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Seahawk
()
Date: November 16, 2007 12:10AM
WhatShit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SEAHAWK,
>
> You said,
>
> "Perhaps Doglover lives in a small neighborhood
> full of exceptionally bright students. Four
> children in my neighborhood of 58 homes graduated
> South Lakes last year, and all four are attending
> UVa. I'd say those are pretty good odds."
>
>
> Doglover's small neighborhood, full of geniuses?
> Was this some kind of government experiment?
> Scary.
>
>
> RE: The 4 kids in your neighborhood who were
> graduated from S.Lakes and went to college...
> wonderful... were did all the other kids in the 58
> homes go to high school???
There were only four seniors in our neighborhood last year and all four went to UVa, so as I said, I think those are pretty impressive numbers for South Lakes. Every younger child in my neighborhood who is school aged goes to school in our pyramid and plans to go to South Lakes. There are no pupil placed or private school kids in our neighborhood.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SEAHAWK,
>
> You said,
>
> "Perhaps Doglover lives in a small neighborhood
> full of exceptionally bright students. Four
> children in my neighborhood of 58 homes graduated
> South Lakes last year, and all four are attending
> UVa. I'd say those are pretty good odds."
>
>
> Doglover's small neighborhood, full of geniuses?
> Was this some kind of government experiment?
> Scary.
>
>
> RE: The 4 kids in your neighborhood who were
> graduated from S.Lakes and went to college...
> wonderful... were did all the other kids in the 58
> homes go to high school???
There were only four seniors in our neighborhood last year and all four went to UVa, so as I said, I think those are pretty impressive numbers for South Lakes. Every younger child in my neighborhood who is school aged goes to school in our pyramid and plans to go to South Lakes. There are no pupil placed or private school kids in our neighborhood.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Seahawk
()
Date: November 16, 2007 12:15AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> << full of exceptionally bright students<<<
>
> And they all choose South Lakes over TJ.
> Interesting.
Neen, not everyone thinks that TJ is the answer. I know many kids who forwent admission to TJ to remain in their neighborhood schools. One kid posted earlier today who got into TJ but chose IB at South Lakes instead. I suppose you will contemptuously think that she is an idiot, but as I said, TJ is not the be all and end all for all students.
I should have know you would latch onto Tisdale's comment like a rat terrior.
Funny, SLPadre said that Thomas Moore had his bones and he chewed them relentlessly. I think you are the same type of person.
-------------------------------------------------------
> << full of exceptionally bright students<<<
>
> And they all choose South Lakes over TJ.
> Interesting.
Neen, not everyone thinks that TJ is the answer. I know many kids who forwent admission to TJ to remain in their neighborhood schools. One kid posted earlier today who got into TJ but chose IB at South Lakes instead. I suppose you will contemptuously think that she is an idiot, but as I said, TJ is not the be all and end all for all students.
I should have know you would latch onto Tisdale's comment like a rat terrior.
Funny, SLPadre said that Thomas Moore had his bones and he chewed them relentlessly. I think you are the same type of person.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Seahawk
()
Date: November 16, 2007 12:19AM
Neen, the arrogance of your comment regarding TJ just struck me. I think you really believe that only TJ students are qualified for the Ivies. What a sad comment about you.
I think everyone posting here with a child in 'regular' high school should be offended by your comment.
I think everyone posting here with a child in 'regular' high school should be offended by your comment.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:27AM
Not at all. I just don't think that an entire neighborhood of geniuses, and ALL chose to go to South Lakes instead of TJ.
>>>One kid posted earlier today who got into TJ but chose IB at South Lakes instead. I suppose you will contemptuously think that she is an idiot, but as I said, TJ is not the be all and end all for all students<<<
I would say that she is most likely lying. So few kids go through the whole process, and the expense of applying to TJ, taking the test, doing the essays, then doing the resume thing, the awards sheets, getting all the recommendations, and then turn down the acceptance. In fact, I've never heard of anyone doing that. Why would anyone put themselves through all that if they didn't want to go to TJ? That would be a total waste of time, money, and effort. If they were dumb enough to do that, they probably shouldn't be at TJ.
No, TJ is not for everyone, it is for students who excel at Math, science, or computer science. That's exactly the reason why we need another good magnet program, for kids who really want to excel, but aren't math/science students.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 03:37AM by Neen.
>>>One kid posted earlier today who got into TJ but chose IB at South Lakes instead. I suppose you will contemptuously think that she is an idiot, but as I said, TJ is not the be all and end all for all students<<<
I would say that she is most likely lying. So few kids go through the whole process, and the expense of applying to TJ, taking the test, doing the essays, then doing the resume thing, the awards sheets, getting all the recommendations, and then turn down the acceptance. In fact, I've never heard of anyone doing that. Why would anyone put themselves through all that if they didn't want to go to TJ? That would be a total waste of time, money, and effort. If they were dumb enough to do that, they probably shouldn't be at TJ.
No, TJ is not for everyone, it is for students who excel at Math, science, or computer science. That's exactly the reason why we need another good magnet program, for kids who really want to excel, but aren't math/science students.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 03:37AM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:30AM
Yes, Seahawk, we know you offend easily, and want others to join you in feeling offended, but you have no problem offending others.
Where did I ever say that only TJ kids qualify for the Ivies? I didn't.
I was questioning an neighborhood of ALL genius students, who ALL got into the Ivies, yet not a one of these geniuses went to TJ. In other words, his story makes no sense. Sheeze. I have to spell out everything for you folks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 01:31AM by Neen.
Where did I ever say that only TJ kids qualify for the Ivies? I didn't.
I was questioning an neighborhood of ALL genius students, who ALL got into the Ivies, yet not a one of these geniuses went to TJ. In other words, his story makes no sense. Sheeze. I have to spell out everything for you folks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 01:31AM by Neen.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 16, 2007 03:15AM
any takers for
> the MMR program in exchange for a magnet?<<<
Perhaps you could exchange with Madison and their ED center, or Woodson and their deaf center.
It's not just South Lakes that has a special center.
> the MMR program in exchange for a magnet?<<<
Perhaps you could exchange with Madison and their ED center, or Woodson and their deaf center.
It's not just South Lakes that has a special center.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
grid lock
()
Date: November 16, 2007 07:43AM
Funny that the parents bitching the most about their kids going to a crappy school are the same ones who will vote for Hillary. Just like the Clintons you are all for public schools and PC learning until it comes to your own kids. Then you want only the best or in the Clintons case private school.
Re: high school redistricting - TJ Stats and College Matriculation
Posted by:
APorIBMom
()
Date: November 16, 2007 08:15AM
Need is incorrect about TJ. For the last several years, about 50 of the 500 or so students admitted in the spring decide not to attend TJ. Some attend private schools and some attend their neighborhood high schools.
I would not evaluate a high school primarily on how many of its students attended Ivy League or similar colleges. The Ivies admit many students because he/she has a "hook," such as being a recruited athlete, a member of an underrepresented group, or the parent will donate a million dollars. To varying extents, the same is true with most other selective colleges. Students rejected by colleges because they don't have "hooks" do not reflect badly on their high schools; sometimes they are far more accomplished than most students admitted with hooks.
In addition, many middle class students admitted to highly selective private or out-of-state public colleges choose to attend a Virginia public university.
I would not evaluate a high school primarily on how many of its students attended Ivy League or similar colleges. The Ivies admit many students because he/she has a "hook," such as being a recruited athlete, a member of an underrepresented group, or the parent will donate a million dollars. To varying extents, the same is true with most other selective colleges. Students rejected by colleges because they don't have "hooks" do not reflect badly on their high schools; sometimes they are far more accomplished than most students admitted with hooks.
In addition, many middle class students admitted to highly selective private or out-of-state public colleges choose to attend a Virginia public university.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
administrative changes?
()
Date: November 16, 2007 08:15AM
Stuff goes from south of 7 to Langley but nothing north of 7 flies south to Herndon or South Lakes. Now that they have strategic governance I expected mre - but am getting less. Plus the Langley addition concurrent with this boundary process for all intents and purposes PRESENTS AS RACIST.
FCPS is so creepy that on it's boundary location lists for driving directions it leaves off stuff that gives the general public easy quick ideas about the goofiness of the Langley boundary. They are Bowl America in Sterling and Woody's Golf course. And why isn't the part of Colvin Run that hooks into the Madison Island in this mix also? What about Field View near Aldrin?
Quote from policy 8130.5 on boundaries:
The Division Superintendent is directed to annually consider the need to make adjustments governed by this policy and to take the actions indicated accordingly. The Superintendent is authorized to administratively adjust school attendance areas, after consultation with the affected School Board representative(s), when any one of the following circumstances occurs: − an emergency or other overriding public need requires such a change. − new unoccupied housing requires reassignment to avoid school crowding or to facilitate student transportation. − less than five percent of the enrollment of each school will be affected, and analysis indicates the change will improve the operating efficiency of the school division.
Interpreting the above language to this inequitable and peculiar mess? The superindentent could administratively place Langley and Madison after consultation and MAKE THE CHANGE. The kicker is no one would care except the people moved...the proof of that is the majority of people agree with this redistricting process or incumbents would not have been re-elected. Consultation is not the same thing as agreement.
Something has to be done about some of these elementary schools as well - Aldrin and Armstrong are very much undercrowded. Forestville is overcrowded in reality since it has a septic system and is on pump and haul which is extremely expensive. [another case where they slopped down a mega million modular with no core change - Herndon -ie Tom Rust- was not happy when Strauss did this].
Flint Hill and Oakton ? Odd boundaries that need adjustment with Sunrise Valley included in the mix.
FCPS is so creepy that on it's boundary location lists for driving directions it leaves off stuff that gives the general public easy quick ideas about the goofiness of the Langley boundary. They are Bowl America in Sterling and Woody's Golf course. And why isn't the part of Colvin Run that hooks into the Madison Island in this mix also? What about Field View near Aldrin?
Quote from policy 8130.5 on boundaries:
The Division Superintendent is directed to annually consider the need to make adjustments governed by this policy and to take the actions indicated accordingly. The Superintendent is authorized to administratively adjust school attendance areas, after consultation with the affected School Board representative(s), when any one of the following circumstances occurs: − an emergency or other overriding public need requires such a change. − new unoccupied housing requires reassignment to avoid school crowding or to facilitate student transportation. − less than five percent of the enrollment of each school will be affected, and analysis indicates the change will improve the operating efficiency of the school division.
Interpreting the above language to this inequitable and peculiar mess? The superindentent could administratively place Langley and Madison after consultation and MAKE THE CHANGE. The kicker is no one would care except the people moved...the proof of that is the majority of people agree with this redistricting process or incumbents would not have been re-elected. Consultation is not the same thing as agreement.
Something has to be done about some of these elementary schools as well - Aldrin and Armstrong are very much undercrowded. Forestville is overcrowded in reality since it has a septic system and is on pump and haul which is extremely expensive. [another case where they slopped down a mega million modular with no core change - Herndon -ie Tom Rust- was not happy when Strauss did this].
Flint Hill and Oakton ? Odd boundaries that need adjustment with Sunrise Valley included in the mix.
Re: high school redistricting - TJ Stats and College Matriculation
Posted by:
seahawk
()
Date: November 16, 2007 08:52AM
APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Need is incorrect about TJ. For the last several
> years, about 50 of the 500 or so students admitted
> in the spring decide not to attend TJ. Some
> attend private schools and some attend their
> neighborhood high schools.
>
> I would not evaluate a high school primarily on
> how many of its students attended Ivy League or
> similar colleges. The Ivies admit many students
> because he/she has a "hook," such as being a
> recruited athlete, a member of an underrepresented
> group, or the parent will donate a million
> dollars. To varying extents, the same is true with
> most other selective colleges. Students rejected
> by colleges because they don't have "hooks" do not
> reflect badly on their high schools; sometimes
> they are far more accomplished than most students
> admitted with hooks.
>
> In addition, many middle class students admitted
> to highly selective private or out-of-state public
> colleges choose to attend a Virginia public
> university.
I was not evaluating SL on the Ivy criteria. As I pointed out, I'm sure every school involved sends kids to the Ivy League. I was only making the point that it is entirely possible that Doglover is telling the truth about his/her neighborhood and that Neen and others were out of line.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Need is incorrect about TJ. For the last several
> years, about 50 of the 500 or so students admitted
> in the spring decide not to attend TJ. Some
> attend private schools and some attend their
> neighborhood high schools.
>
> I would not evaluate a high school primarily on
> how many of its students attended Ivy League or
> similar colleges. The Ivies admit many students
> because he/she has a "hook," such as being a
> recruited athlete, a member of an underrepresented
> group, or the parent will donate a million
> dollars. To varying extents, the same is true with
> most other selective colleges. Students rejected
> by colleges because they don't have "hooks" do not
> reflect badly on their high schools; sometimes
> they are far more accomplished than most students
> admitted with hooks.
>
> In addition, many middle class students admitted
> to highly selective private or out-of-state public
> colleges choose to attend a Virginia public
> university.
I was not evaluating SL on the Ivy criteria. As I pointed out, I'm sure every school involved sends kids to the Ivy League. I was only making the point that it is entirely possible that Doglover is telling the truth about his/her neighborhood and that Neen and others were out of line.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
seahawk
()
Date: November 16, 2007 08:55AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not at all. I just don't think that an entire
> neighborhood of geniuses, and ALL chose to go to
> South Lakes instead of TJ.
>
> >>>One kid posted earlier today who got into TJ
> but chose IB at South Lakes instead. I suppose you
> will contemptuously think that she is an idiot,
> but as I said, TJ is not the be all and end all
> for all students<<<
>
> I would say that she is most likely lying. So few
> kids go through the whole process, and the expense
> of applying to TJ, taking the test, doing the
> essays, then doing the resume thing, the awards
> sheets, getting all the recommendations, and then
> turn down the acceptance. In fact, I've never
> heard of anyone doing that. Why would anyone put
> themselves through all that if they didn't want to
> go to TJ? That would be a total waste of time,
> money, and effort. If they were dumb enough to do
> that, they probably shouldn't be at TJ.
>
> No, TJ is not for everyone, it is for students who
> excel at Math, science, or computer science.
> That's exactly the reason why we need another good
> magnet program, for kids who really want to excel,
> but aren't math/science students.
Neen, you just proved my point regarding your arrogance. So if a student chooses not to attend TJ after getting in that student is 'dumb' and if one says she was admitted and chose not to go she is lying? Sheesh.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not at all. I just don't think that an entire
> neighborhood of geniuses, and ALL chose to go to
> South Lakes instead of TJ.
>
> >>>One kid posted earlier today who got into TJ
> but chose IB at South Lakes instead. I suppose you
> will contemptuously think that she is an idiot,
> but as I said, TJ is not the be all and end all
> for all students<<<
>
> I would say that she is most likely lying. So few
> kids go through the whole process, and the expense
> of applying to TJ, taking the test, doing the
> essays, then doing the resume thing, the awards
> sheets, getting all the recommendations, and then
> turn down the acceptance. In fact, I've never
> heard of anyone doing that. Why would anyone put
> themselves through all that if they didn't want to
> go to TJ? That would be a total waste of time,
> money, and effort. If they were dumb enough to do
> that, they probably shouldn't be at TJ.
>
> No, TJ is not for everyone, it is for students who
> excel at Math, science, or computer science.
> That's exactly the reason why we need another good
> magnet program, for kids who really want to excel,
> but aren't math/science students.
Neen, you just proved my point regarding your arrogance. So if a student chooses not to attend TJ after getting in that student is 'dumb' and if one says she was admitted and chose not to go she is lying? Sheesh.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
seahawk
()
Date: November 16, 2007 09:03AM
Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Sheeze. I have to
> spell out everything for you folks.
Yes Neen, we are ignorant and would not be able to function if we didn't have you making everything clear. Thank you for the service you perform on this site.
>>any takers for
>>the MMR program in exchange for a magnet?<<<
>Perhaps you could exchange with Madison and their ED center, or Woodson and their deaf center.
>It's not just South Lakes that has a special center.
Neen, do I have to spell everything out for you? I think the point that the poster was trying to make was that many here, including you, were proposing turning SL into a Western TJ. In order to make room for a magnet some programs would likely have to be moved out. Get it?
-------------------------------------------------------
Sheeze. I have to
> spell out everything for you folks.
Yes Neen, we are ignorant and would not be able to function if we didn't have you making everything clear. Thank you for the service you perform on this site.
>>any takers for
>>the MMR program in exchange for a magnet?<<<
>Perhaps you could exchange with Madison and their ED center, or Woodson and their deaf center.
>It's not just South Lakes that has a special center.
Neen, do I have to spell everything out for you? I think the point that the poster was trying to make was that many here, including you, were proposing turning SL into a Western TJ. In order to make room for a magnet some programs would likely have to be moved out. Get it?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Cheshire Cat
()
Date: November 16, 2007 09:44AM
Very good points, Administrative Changes. Thanks for posting that.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Administrative Changes?
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:44AM
I have just discovered the FCPS transportation task force has not been given copies of actual bus routes [ see the task force web site]. That is quite silly because those routes in conjunction with boundary maps would shed light on much of this or any other area requiring citizen input for operational efficiency.
From some on-line routes, I have just discovered that a bus rolls through the far south western Forestville attendance area which is Herndon - includes some loads with Reston addresses and then traipses into what now is known as the Madison Island then hops on over straight to Kilmer.
There's another bus that loads up Langley pyramid middleschoolers that live in Herndon or Great Falls NEAR HERNDON HS that lugs them all the way to Kilmer. Both of these are dedicated runs so in addition to bussing most kids in those neighborhoods all the way to Cooper near Langley, people are also stuck with bussing others to a GT center near Tysons - Kilmer.
Strauss/Gibson have us all paying for this. Some boundaries need to be changed.
Click, click on bus routes, then read 60 and 61 and weep. I want a tax refund on this:
http://www.fcps.edu/KilmerMS/kilmera-z/buses.html
From some on-line routes, I have just discovered that a bus rolls through the far south western Forestville attendance area which is Herndon - includes some loads with Reston addresses and then traipses into what now is known as the Madison Island then hops on over straight to Kilmer.
There's another bus that loads up Langley pyramid middleschoolers that live in Herndon or Great Falls NEAR HERNDON HS that lugs them all the way to Kilmer. Both of these are dedicated runs so in addition to bussing most kids in those neighborhoods all the way to Cooper near Langley, people are also stuck with bussing others to a GT center near Tysons - Kilmer.
Strauss/Gibson have us all paying for this. Some boundaries need to be changed.
Click, click on bus routes, then read 60 and 61 and weep. I want a tax refund on this:
http://www.fcps.edu/KilmerMS/kilmera-z/buses.html
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
cheshire cat
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:57AM
Administrative Changes? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have just discovered the FCPS transportation
> task force has not been given copies of actual bus
> routes [ see the task force web site]. That is
> quite silly because those routes in conjunction
> with boundary maps would shed light on much of
> this or any other area requiring citizen input for
> operational efficiency.
>
> From some on-line routes, I have just discovered
> that a bus rolls through the far south western
> Forestville attendance area which is Herndon -
> includes some loads with Reston addresses and then
> traipses into what now is known as the Madison
> Island then hops on over straight to Kilmer.
>
> There's another bus that loads up Langley pyramid
> middleschoolers that live in Herndon or Great
> Falls NEAR HERNDON HS that lugs them all the way
> to Kilmer. Both of these are dedicated runs so in
> addition to bussing most kids in those
> neighborhoods all the way to Cooper near Langley,
> people are also stuck with bussing others to a GT
> center near Tysons - Kilmer.
>
> Strauss/Gibson have us all paying for this. Some
> boundaries need to be changed.
>
> Click, click on bus routes, then read 60 and 61
> and weep. I want a tax refund on this:
> http://www.fcps.edu/KilmerMS/kilmera-z/buses.html
That is very frustrating, especially since the Hughes GT center could easily absorb those students. I have always maintained that folks receiving special services should not be picky about where those services are located - after all, they receive them on the backs of others.
Unfortunately, that is probably a very small group of students, but every little bit helps.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have just discovered the FCPS transportation
> task force has not been given copies of actual bus
> routes [ see the task force web site]. That is
> quite silly because those routes in conjunction
> with boundary maps would shed light on much of
> this or any other area requiring citizen input for
> operational efficiency.
>
> From some on-line routes, I have just discovered
> that a bus rolls through the far south western
> Forestville attendance area which is Herndon -
> includes some loads with Reston addresses and then
> traipses into what now is known as the Madison
> Island then hops on over straight to Kilmer.
>
> There's another bus that loads up Langley pyramid
> middleschoolers that live in Herndon or Great
> Falls NEAR HERNDON HS that lugs them all the way
> to Kilmer. Both of these are dedicated runs so in
> addition to bussing most kids in those
> neighborhoods all the way to Cooper near Langley,
> people are also stuck with bussing others to a GT
> center near Tysons - Kilmer.
>
> Strauss/Gibson have us all paying for this. Some
> boundaries need to be changed.
>
> Click, click on bus routes, then read 60 and 61
> and weep. I want a tax refund on this:
> http://www.fcps.edu/KilmerMS/kilmera-z/buses.html
That is very frustrating, especially since the Hughes GT center could easily absorb those students. I have always maintained that folks receiving special services should not be picky about where those services are located - after all, they receive them on the backs of others.
Unfortunately, that is probably a very small group of students, but every little bit helps.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLParent
()
Date: November 16, 2007 11:36AM
A couple of blog pages back the question was asked that if a student is people placed into a school can they participate in all activities and sports.
The answer is yes if is it properly approved. When athletes are questioned in regard to their eligibility to play it's because they are in a school district using another address and are caught not being properly placed through the correct channels.
We have athletes that are placed in South Lakes without restriction because they follow the correct approval process.
The answer is yes if is it properly approved. When athletes are questioned in regard to their eligibility to play it's because they are in a school district using another address and are caught not being properly placed through the correct channels.
We have athletes that are placed in South Lakes without restriction because they follow the correct approval process.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VaDriver
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:06PM
To Seahawk and all other the other SL homeowners:
Do you all understand some of us are simply considering the business side of redistricting?
All homeowners who are redistricted to South Lakes will effectively be donating $50-100,000 for a social engineering experiment. I'm an empty nester so save the lecture of "its all about the kids".
South Lakes homeowners have a win/win situation. I don't blame you one bit for promoting the whole redistricting effort and trying to stuff it down our throats....you are all highly motivated. You have a conflict of interest and if this nonsense goes through...after litigation....you'll be the happy recipient of my equity.
Do you all understand some of us are simply considering the business side of redistricting?
All homeowners who are redistricted to South Lakes will effectively be donating $50-100,000 for a social engineering experiment. I'm an empty nester so save the lecture of "its all about the kids".
South Lakes homeowners have a win/win situation. I don't blame you one bit for promoting the whole redistricting effort and trying to stuff it down our throats....you are all highly motivated. You have a conflict of interest and if this nonsense goes through...after litigation....you'll be the happy recipient of my equity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
FFXDAD
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:11PM
OK ... this is my first time writing on this forum, although I have read through a few times. I have seen some positive dialogue and quite a bit of non-productive banter.
Today I read (page 46 I think) a comment from SLVerity, "Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and those at Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as everyone likes to say, then why would they not improve the reputation of SL if they were to attend?"
In having read a few hundred of the posts, I am generally impressed with the thoughts and insight of SLVerity -- and am disappointed in this comment. While I am mildly offended by it, what other choice have we left SLVerity and others when they are constantly feeling attacked. The bottom line is SLVerity is the type of person that should be included in a solutions based dialogue - whether or not you agree with them.
I do want to address that comment though. Moving more (lets be realistic - SL has its share of strong students) higher performing children to a program that does not have the breadth of offerings might help the long term reputation of the school, but prove disadvantageous to the students who are redistricted there during the transition period.
Reality: A disparity in programming exists (its not worth arguing why). Hopefully the intent is not to offer any student fewer options than they have today, but find a way to offer a full complement of opportunities to all students.
Maybe, the questions folks can refocus on are:
How can we increase the options for all students (this means applying more resources to SL ... and resources are often tied to numbers of students)?
How can we provide the desired balancing without eliminating current or expected offerings for any student? there is no quick fix, but EVERYONE should be the same or better off when this is done -- so many smart and caring folks are actively engaged.
How do we maintain a positive community environment? (note there are many types of communities - TJ has a school centric one; Reston has a geographic / services one).
So folks know where I stand, I do not believe this current redistricting study is proper. There are many solutions that should be considered, including boundary evaluation. And that boundary evaluation should be inclusive (it is interesting that certain areas were "eliminated" prior to the evaluation and priod to ANY decisions being made). As a community we each need to look out for ourselves (Seems to bne lots of that), our friends (seems to be some of that) and the community at large (seems to be much less of that). The greatest challenge is helping SL get the programming and opportunities they deserve, without negatively (real or perceived) impacting others - can't we all put or energy toward that!
Today I read (page 46 I think) a comment from SLVerity, "Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and those at Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as everyone likes to say, then why would they not improve the reputation of SL if they were to attend?"
In having read a few hundred of the posts, I am generally impressed with the thoughts and insight of SLVerity -- and am disappointed in this comment. While I am mildly offended by it, what other choice have we left SLVerity and others when they are constantly feeling attacked. The bottom line is SLVerity is the type of person that should be included in a solutions based dialogue - whether or not you agree with them.
I do want to address that comment though. Moving more (lets be realistic - SL has its share of strong students) higher performing children to a program that does not have the breadth of offerings might help the long term reputation of the school, but prove disadvantageous to the students who are redistricted there during the transition period.
Reality: A disparity in programming exists (its not worth arguing why). Hopefully the intent is not to offer any student fewer options than they have today, but find a way to offer a full complement of opportunities to all students.
Maybe, the questions folks can refocus on are:
How can we increase the options for all students (this means applying more resources to SL ... and resources are often tied to numbers of students)?
How can we provide the desired balancing without eliminating current or expected offerings for any student? there is no quick fix, but EVERYONE should be the same or better off when this is done -- so many smart and caring folks are actively engaged.
How do we maintain a positive community environment? (note there are many types of communities - TJ has a school centric one; Reston has a geographic / services one).
So folks know where I stand, I do not believe this current redistricting study is proper. There are many solutions that should be considered, including boundary evaluation. And that boundary evaluation should be inclusive (it is interesting that certain areas were "eliminated" prior to the evaluation and priod to ANY decisions being made). As a community we each need to look out for ourselves (Seems to bne lots of that), our friends (seems to be some of that) and the community at large (seems to be much less of that). The greatest challenge is helping SL get the programming and opportunities they deserve, without negatively (real or perceived) impacting others - can't we all put or energy toward that!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CH
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:15PM
Neen: > I would say that she is most likely lying.
I know this family personally and she did, indeed, transfer from TJ to South Lakes recently because of ALL the terrific things the school offers: outstanding academics and a wonderful social life among them. Furthermore, my son went to TJ and is at UVA with a dozen AP classes under his belt and 4s and 5s on all the exams, and my other son is getting an IB diploma this year, and guess who's going to be FAR better prepared for college? I'm amused at the incredible ignorance displayed in these posts.
I know this family personally and she did, indeed, transfer from TJ to South Lakes recently because of ALL the terrific things the school offers: outstanding academics and a wonderful social life among them. Furthermore, my son went to TJ and is at UVA with a dozen AP classes under his belt and 4s and 5s on all the exams, and my other son is getting an IB diploma this year, and guess who's going to be FAR better prepared for college? I'm amused at the incredible ignorance displayed in these posts.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
cheshire cat
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:33PM
Dear Administrative Changes?
Could you kindly direct me to the documents you referred to in your prior posts. I would like to investigate further and was unable to locate the things you referenced.
Thanks very much.
Could you kindly direct me to the documents you referred to in your prior posts. I would like to investigate further and was unable to locate the things you referenced.
Thanks very much.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Kiev
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:35PM
50 pages
is this the longest thread or what?
is this the longest thread or what?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Verity's Proxy
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:43PM
FFXDAD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK ... this is my first time writing on this
> forum, although I have read through a few times.
> I have seen some positive dialogue and quite a bit
> of non-productive banter.
>
> Today I read (page 46 I think) a comment from
> SLVerity, "Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and
> those at Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as
> everyone likes to say, then why would they not
> improve the reputation of SL if they were to
> attend?"
>
> In having read a few hundred of the posts, I am
> generally impressed with the thoughts and insight
> of SLVerity -- and am disappointed in this
> comment. While I am mildly offended by it, what
> other choice have we left SLVerity and others when
> they are constantly feeling attacked. The bottom
> line is SLVerity is the type of person that should
> be included in a solutions based dialogue -
> whether or not you agree with them.
>
Dear FFX Dad, SLVerity is no longer posting here, but I forwarded your post to Verity and was asked to thank you for the nice comments and also for the measured post. Verity also wants to apologize if you took offense at a particular comment and wants to assure you that it was posted in frustration and not out of any real animus.
Since you sound very knowledgeable, Verity is wondering how someone could be involved in a solutions based dialogue with parents from other schools, besides posting here and in addition to attending the boundary meetings. If you have any suggestions, please share them.
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK ... this is my first time writing on this
> forum, although I have read through a few times.
> I have seen some positive dialogue and quite a bit
> of non-productive banter.
>
> Today I read (page 46 I think) a comment from
> SLVerity, "Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and
> those at Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as
> everyone likes to say, then why would they not
> improve the reputation of SL if they were to
> attend?"
>
> In having read a few hundred of the posts, I am
> generally impressed with the thoughts and insight
> of SLVerity -- and am disappointed in this
> comment. While I am mildly offended by it, what
> other choice have we left SLVerity and others when
> they are constantly feeling attacked. The bottom
> line is SLVerity is the type of person that should
> be included in a solutions based dialogue -
> whether or not you agree with them.
>
Dear FFX Dad, SLVerity is no longer posting here, but I forwarded your post to Verity and was asked to thank you for the nice comments and also for the measured post. Verity also wants to apologize if you took offense at a particular comment and wants to assure you that it was posted in frustration and not out of any real animus.
Since you sound very knowledgeable, Verity is wondering how someone could be involved in a solutions based dialogue with parents from other schools, besides posting here and in addition to attending the boundary meetings. If you have any suggestions, please share them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:53PM
I want to pull my kid out of a public school ranked in the top 100 nationally and place them in one thats not even ranked, and is located in a planned community with delusional parents. I'm hoping he can make captain of the cheerleading squad, and could probably help ESOL students with the jewelry making elective.
Any ideas where I might find such a calamity?
GO SEAGULLS!
Any ideas where I might find such a calamity?
GO SEAGULLS!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 01:58PM
I have 2 daughters going to Oakton H.S.
Why would I want my children bused to South Lakes?
If I had wanted them to go to South Lakes, I would have bought a house in that district.
Here are a couple of reasons why I didn't
South Lakes has 33% of its students receiving free lunch.
Oakton has 8%.
South Lakes has constant problems with student behavior problems so they needed to add such "special features" as :
----POSITIVE BEHAVIOR SUPPORT PROGRAMS
----TIME OUT ROOMS
Time out rooms??? Sounds like pre-school.
Why would I want my children bused to South Lakes?
If I had wanted them to go to South Lakes, I would have bought a house in that district.
Here are a couple of reasons why I didn't
South Lakes has 33% of its students receiving free lunch.
Oakton has 8%.
South Lakes has constant problems with student behavior problems so they needed to add such "special features" as :
----POSITIVE BEHAVIOR SUPPORT PROGRAMS
----TIME OUT ROOMS
Time out rooms??? Sounds like pre-school.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Administrative changes?
()
Date: November 16, 2007 02:15PM
cheshire cat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Administrative Changes?
>
> Could you kindly direct me to the documents you
> referred to in your prior posts. I would like to
> investigate further and was unable to locate the
> things you referenced.
>
> Thanks very much.
the actual Kilmer bus routes are on the schools website under kilmer a to z. The transportation task force site stuff is on it's website which has a link on the FCPS school board page. That no route s given confirmation is under questions.
Go to the FCPS homepage for both . School websites are linked on the upper right and the school board is on the left sidebar.
As for recent posts here, the jewelry making is ludicrous at any school. FCPS shuld stop dillying around and call vo-tech VO_TCH, bus kids to it, and make South Lakes a normal AP school. Conversely, if no one will go it should take in about 150-200 kids/grade level from TJ. Run it like Montco Blair. Should I pay for renovating that public version of a private school?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Administrative Changes?
>
> Could you kindly direct me to the documents you
> referred to in your prior posts. I would like to
> investigate further and was unable to locate the
> things you referenced.
>
> Thanks very much.
the actual Kilmer bus routes are on the schools website under kilmer a to z. The transportation task force site stuff is on it's website which has a link on the FCPS school board page. That no route s given confirmation is under questions.
Go to the FCPS homepage for both . School websites are linked on the upper right and the school board is on the left sidebar.
As for recent posts here, the jewelry making is ludicrous at any school. FCPS shuld stop dillying around and call vo-tech VO_TCH, bus kids to it, and make South Lakes a normal AP school. Conversely, if no one will go it should take in about 150-200 kids/grade level from TJ. Run it like Montco Blair. Should I pay for renovating that public version of a private school?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
FFXDAD
()
Date: November 16, 2007 02:15PM
Verity's proxy ... I am unfortunately not very knowledgeable in this area, just a concerned parent.
My thoughts regarding a solutions based dialogue require first taking some of the emotion out of all of this (and all of the folks who are only looking out for themselves will likely leave). A collective effort to reframe the discussions from "should this boundary study take place" or "what elements should be included in the boundary study" to "how do we resolve the imbalance of offerings, specifically, for SL students" should take place. This shift can only occur if all vocal parties, regardless of their current position, pressure the school board to step back and recall what is important (at the end of the day it is not the school but the students).
If we continue along the current path, very few will win, many will lose, and even more will get hurt (at least emotionally). I would love it if parent groups from all of the schools got together, without the presence of the school board, to devise some potential solutions. (Before folks jump all over this and say that is what they are supposed to be doing, understand they have different contraints and potentially different agendas).
If folks put their energies into addressing the real challenge (which the school board has made near impossible), then a collaborative solution can be achieved. There were over four people years of work effort in Chantilly last week (800 people hours).
The bottom line - if we can get the board to step back and look at alternatives for the real issue, we are more likely to achieve some meaningful results. That may or may not include redistricting -- but it would certainly move us in the right direction moer quickly.
Most folks I have spoken to SL, Oakton, Chantilly, etc. are for a positive result for all. They are just feeling cornered into saying if they are for or against redistricting which should not be the issue. The positive of all of this is that there is greater awareness of this imbalance which is detrimental to SL students. The best way to resolve -- force a change in focus for the next meeting to one of solving the real problem!
My thoughts regarding a solutions based dialogue require first taking some of the emotion out of all of this (and all of the folks who are only looking out for themselves will likely leave). A collective effort to reframe the discussions from "should this boundary study take place" or "what elements should be included in the boundary study" to "how do we resolve the imbalance of offerings, specifically, for SL students" should take place. This shift can only occur if all vocal parties, regardless of their current position, pressure the school board to step back and recall what is important (at the end of the day it is not the school but the students).
If we continue along the current path, very few will win, many will lose, and even more will get hurt (at least emotionally). I would love it if parent groups from all of the schools got together, without the presence of the school board, to devise some potential solutions. (Before folks jump all over this and say that is what they are supposed to be doing, understand they have different contraints and potentially different agendas).
If folks put their energies into addressing the real challenge (which the school board has made near impossible), then a collaborative solution can be achieved. There were over four people years of work effort in Chantilly last week (800 people hours).
The bottom line - if we can get the board to step back and look at alternatives for the real issue, we are more likely to achieve some meaningful results. That may or may not include redistricting -- but it would certainly move us in the right direction moer quickly.
Most folks I have spoken to SL, Oakton, Chantilly, etc. are for a positive result for all. They are just feeling cornered into saying if they are for or against redistricting which should not be the issue. The positive of all of this is that there is greater awareness of this imbalance which is detrimental to SL students. The best way to resolve -- force a change in focus for the next meeting to one of solving the real problem!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
spanky
()
Date: November 16, 2007 02:19PM
Birdlover,
Thats why you are being redistricted - to even out the socio-economic inequity that is (insert school here) and SL. Instead of letting students "excel" (as previously posted by an IB student) where they are, they'd rather drag you down with them.
That is the public school conundrum.
Thats why you are being redistricted - to even out the socio-economic inequity that is (insert school here) and SL. Instead of letting students "excel" (as previously posted by an IB student) where they are, they'd rather drag you down with them.
That is the public school conundrum.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CH
()
Date: November 16, 2007 02:20PM
Re pupil-placement: Go to the FCPS website for info: http://www.fcps.edu/ss/student-transfer/index.htm. Sports in FCPS are governed by the Virginia High School League: www.vhsl.org. They want to stop kids from being placed ONLY because they are star athletes to boost the program at their new school. All pupil-placed kids are full-fledged students at their adopted schools and can participate in everything, just like everyone else. I pupil-placed my son to South Lakes from Oakton (actually, BOTH of us wanted him to go there) - we live in Franklin Farm, and I'll be pupil-placing my daughter there. Biggest drawback is transportation.'
Oh, and I'm going to ignore responses that sneer that this option is available so why do I have to send my kid to your school? This is about having a critical mass of well-balanced student population so SL can intrinscially have the same programming and opportunities now available at all the other schools, and so the lower achievers have a better shot at doing well.
I have access to numerous studies (and so do you, through the ERIC database online) that show that lower achieving students (who tend to be in the lower socioeconomic strata) do far better in schools where there aren't a lot of them, and middle-to-upper achievers do well in ANY school, no matter what the socioeconomic mix. Poor kids have less access to support and resources at home, even when parents support their schooling. They do better when there is available support and resources and opportunities for advancement at their school -- which means that the fewer poor kids, the more available resources to them in that venue. Studies show that when there are more choices for academic success -- such as more electives and higher-level courses -- the better kids do because the expectations that kids be involved in them are higher. Think about this when it comes to your workplace. There are many compelling reasons South Lakes needs an influx of kids from the middle-to-upper income strata. A
nd no incoming kids will be harmed in the making of this move!
I can't believe that parents who are concerned about the quality of education at SL haven't received the message yet that it is outstanding.
One other note: If you look at scores, please remember your elementary school math and what averages mean. Oakton et al. has a population of strong underachievers, too. Their scores are reflected in the average, and who knows how low they go? Is that YOUR kid? If not, then your kid will do well at ANY school. If so, your kid will need support and help at ANY school.
Re keeping communities together. We should note that this isn't one of the criteria established by the board, but it is a major concern to all involved. That's why a magnet program wouldn't work. Academy and magnet programs draw kids from various locations who often go for the courses and don't stay involved with the school. The issue here isn't having something "special." It's having parity on basic academic offerings.
Also, if a neighborhood is redistricted to SL, the kid would, in fact, be going to high school with their neighborhood friends.
I have three kids that have gone to a total of NINE FCPS public schools because of a move from Reston, TJ placement, daycare affiliations, etc. They have grown and grown from them all. They all have myriad friends from all walks of life now, and have retained a core group. My oldest son at UVA has best friends still from elementary school who went to several different high schools. Remember that IMing and text messaging has changed the world of relationships!
The most important task for anyone involved in this boundary change discussion is to become informed and keep an open mind and heart. We must remember that we are greater than the sum of our parts. Our school system functions well because it is supported by huge numbers of people who have no direct interest in it, and who care about the system as a whole. It succeeds because people understand how to compromise for the greater good.
Oh, and I'm going to ignore responses that sneer that this option is available so why do I have to send my kid to your school? This is about having a critical mass of well-balanced student population so SL can intrinscially have the same programming and opportunities now available at all the other schools, and so the lower achievers have a better shot at doing well.
I have access to numerous studies (and so do you, through the ERIC database online) that show that lower achieving students (who tend to be in the lower socioeconomic strata) do far better in schools where there aren't a lot of them, and middle-to-upper achievers do well in ANY school, no matter what the socioeconomic mix. Poor kids have less access to support and resources at home, even when parents support their schooling. They do better when there is available support and resources and opportunities for advancement at their school -- which means that the fewer poor kids, the more available resources to them in that venue. Studies show that when there are more choices for academic success -- such as more electives and higher-level courses -- the better kids do because the expectations that kids be involved in them are higher. Think about this when it comes to your workplace. There are many compelling reasons South Lakes needs an influx of kids from the middle-to-upper income strata. A
nd no incoming kids will be harmed in the making of this move!
I can't believe that parents who are concerned about the quality of education at SL haven't received the message yet that it is outstanding.
One other note: If you look at scores, please remember your elementary school math and what averages mean. Oakton et al. has a population of strong underachievers, too. Their scores are reflected in the average, and who knows how low they go? Is that YOUR kid? If not, then your kid will do well at ANY school. If so, your kid will need support and help at ANY school.
Re keeping communities together. We should note that this isn't one of the criteria established by the board, but it is a major concern to all involved. That's why a magnet program wouldn't work. Academy and magnet programs draw kids from various locations who often go for the courses and don't stay involved with the school. The issue here isn't having something "special." It's having parity on basic academic offerings.
Also, if a neighborhood is redistricted to SL, the kid would, in fact, be going to high school with their neighborhood friends.
I have three kids that have gone to a total of NINE FCPS public schools because of a move from Reston, TJ placement, daycare affiliations, etc. They have grown and grown from them all. They all have myriad friends from all walks of life now, and have retained a core group. My oldest son at UVA has best friends still from elementary school who went to several different high schools. Remember that IMing and text messaging has changed the world of relationships!
The most important task for anyone involved in this boundary change discussion is to become informed and keep an open mind and heart. We must remember that we are greater than the sum of our parts. Our school system functions well because it is supported by huge numbers of people who have no direct interest in it, and who care about the system as a whole. It succeeds because people understand how to compromise for the greater good.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 02:48PM
MESSAGE TO THE SCHOOL BOARD
Don't use my children to help band-aid your troubled schools. If you have troubled schools, it's your fault.
My children are not little pawns to be used in a game where the winners and losers have already been determined.
Don't use my children to help band-aid your troubled schools. If you have troubled schools, it's your fault.
My children are not little pawns to be used in a game where the winners and losers have already been determined.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CH
()
Date: November 16, 2007 02:48PM
BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
South Lakes has 33% of its students receiving free
> lunch.
> Oakton has 8%.
>
> South Lakes has constant problems with student
> behavior problems...
Let's examine this a little bit. I assume this person got the info from the FCPS "official" statistics. Or was it from rumors? Is anyone willing to make a million dollar bet that those official statistics are 100% accurate for all the schools? No? Is that because they don't reflect such numbers as the 33+ Madison HS kids who were suspended or recommended for expulsion two years ago, or the 14 Langely kids the same year? Could it be that SL was seeking to be as accurate as possible so it could objectively figure out how to address any behavior problems rather than ignore them or hide them? Could it be that SL has been aware of unrelenting rumormongering based on falsehoods and is trying to marry truth to fact? These statistics -- at all schools -- include such things as a kid talking back to a teacher along with, say, stabbings, so what do they really tell you?
Here is an example of this rumormongering: A few years ago, the Herndon Connection wrote that there was a stabbing at South Lakes. I didn't have kids there yet, so I called a friend who was a PTSA officer. He said the so-called "stabbing" happened when a Chemistry student holding a pair of scissors turned around and accidentally scraped a fellow student, who got a slight cut on his abdomen. She was mortified. That was the "stabbing."
Before anyone throws safety statistics and numbers around, I would be careful to bar the doors to your own glass house first.
-------------------------------------------------------
South Lakes has 33% of its students receiving free
> lunch.
> Oakton has 8%.
>
> South Lakes has constant problems with student
> behavior problems...
Let's examine this a little bit. I assume this person got the info from the FCPS "official" statistics. Or was it from rumors? Is anyone willing to make a million dollar bet that those official statistics are 100% accurate for all the schools? No? Is that because they don't reflect such numbers as the 33+ Madison HS kids who were suspended or recommended for expulsion two years ago, or the 14 Langely kids the same year? Could it be that SL was seeking to be as accurate as possible so it could objectively figure out how to address any behavior problems rather than ignore them or hide them? Could it be that SL has been aware of unrelenting rumormongering based on falsehoods and is trying to marry truth to fact? These statistics -- at all schools -- include such things as a kid talking back to a teacher along with, say, stabbings, so what do they really tell you?
Here is an example of this rumormongering: A few years ago, the Herndon Connection wrote that there was a stabbing at South Lakes. I didn't have kids there yet, so I called a friend who was a PTSA officer. He said the so-called "stabbing" happened when a Chemistry student holding a pair of scissors turned around and accidentally scraped a fellow student, who got a slight cut on his abdomen. She was mortified. That was the "stabbing."
Before anyone throws safety statistics and numbers around, I would be careful to bar the doors to your own glass house first.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 03:09PM
CH,
Glad your happy with your decision to send your children to SL. I'm happy for you.
I'm happy with my decison to send my children to Oakton. Be happy for me and shut up.
Glad your happy with your decision to send your children to SL. I'm happy for you.
I'm happy with my decison to send my children to Oakton. Be happy for me and shut up.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CatLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 03:18PM
BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> South Lakes has constant problems with student
> behavior problems so they needed to add such
> "special features" as :
>
> ----POSITIVE BEHAVIOR SUPPORT PROGRAMS
> ----TIME OUT ROOMS
>
> Time out rooms??? Sounds like pre-school.
Birdlover....catlover here. You're right....can't believe South Lakes lists on its FCPS Profile under special features.... "Positive Behavior Support Programs and Time out rooms.
Bet they are special, indeed!! Just a guess here...but a Public Relations consultant would probably suggest NOT featuring those areas...especially during this review time. But, I'm very glad South Lake HS is so proactive helping students with discipline issues.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> South Lakes has constant problems with student
> behavior problems so they needed to add such
> "special features" as :
>
> ----POSITIVE BEHAVIOR SUPPORT PROGRAMS
> ----TIME OUT ROOMS
>
> Time out rooms??? Sounds like pre-school.
Birdlover....catlover here. You're right....can't believe South Lakes lists on its FCPS Profile under special features.... "Positive Behavior Support Programs and Time out rooms.
Bet they are special, indeed!! Just a guess here...but a Public Relations consultant would probably suggest NOT featuring those areas...especially during this review time. But, I'm very glad South Lake HS is so proactive helping students with discipline issues.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
South Lakes Pyramid parent
()
Date: November 16, 2007 03:23PM
CH,
Your post is great, but you can see that many here really don't have an open enough mind to hear it. Your energy and ideas can probably best be used elsewhere.
A friend.
Your post is great, but you can see that many here really don't have an open enough mind to hear it. Your energy and ideas can probably best be used elsewhere.
A friend.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 03:35PM
CH,
The figure is correct so we don't have to examine it a little bit.
South Lakes has 1/3 of its students coming from households either without any income, or with income so low, that they are eligible for FREE lunches.
RE: Behavior issues:
Why, CH, are there TIME-OUT rooms in South Lakes High School? Are they used for students? Or, are the students bringing their own kids to school with them? Time-Out rooms are for toddlers.
The figure is correct so we don't have to examine it a little bit.
South Lakes has 1/3 of its students coming from households either without any income, or with income so low, that they are eligible for FREE lunches.
RE: Behavior issues:
Why, CH, are there TIME-OUT rooms in South Lakes High School? Are they used for students? Or, are the students bringing their own kids to school with them? Time-Out rooms are for toddlers.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CH
()
Date: November 16, 2007 03:42PM
Dear Friend: You're right. My energies can be used better elsewhere. It's so dismaying to see such a lack of compassion and so much solipsism. My parting thought is would they still believe these things if they visited our school, talked with our kids, and put raw fear aside? Would they actually say these things to our kids in person? See you December 3.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:00PM
CatLover,
The head honcho at the school board is probably on the phone with the minister of disinformation, yelling, "Didn't I tell you to remove those SPECIAL FEATURES from the school website. You've got 10 minutes to come up with a spin on this that's believable."
RE: Your love of cats....hmmmm.
The head honcho at the school board is probably on the phone with the minister of disinformation, yelling, "Didn't I tell you to remove those SPECIAL FEATURES from the school website. You've got 10 minutes to come up with a spin on this that's believable."
RE: Your love of cats....hmmmm.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:13PM
And on page 50, the mindless chirping of Bird-brained contributors continues.....
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
grid lock
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:20PM
Admit it you just don't want your kids going to a school with large amounts of black and hispanic kids. At least with a racist he will admit why he doesnt want his kids going there with yuppies they hide behind statistics.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
I Told You So
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:20PM
All of you SL folks should seriously ask the School Board to put the brakes on all of this. Just think how you'll be hating life when all those Westfield/Chantilly/ Oakton people (or wherever) infiltrate and take over your school. The PTA meetings will be most entertaining.
Seriously, think about it!!!
Seriously, think about it!!!
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:34PM
South Lakes Pyramid Parent
I think YOU need to open up YOUR mind. People who bought their homes based on the schools in their communities are now are being told that their children will be bused into a different school district.
You, the enlightened one, have the audacity to call these people closed minded? Who do you think you are? You picked your school. Respect the fact that we picked our schools. OPEN YOUR MIND.
I think YOU need to open up YOUR mind. People who bought their homes based on the schools in their communities are now are being told that their children will be bused into a different school district.
You, the enlightened one, have the audacity to call these people closed minded? Who do you think you are? You picked your school. Respect the fact that we picked our schools. OPEN YOUR MIND.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
taxpayer
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:34PM
http://www.fcps.edu/fs/food/food_at_school/free_reduced/free_reduced-0708.pdf
that link is to the free lunch application. There is a box that can be checked for NO -don't have social security number for the parent/guardian. I guess they are the children of illegal immigrants because anyone else would have a #.
2 in household $25,327 , 5 in household $44,641 annual income
I remember reading the numbers went up - the cIP last year had South Lkaes at a litle over 25% and now it's at 33%. FCPS mails the letter every year and provides postage paid envelpes for the return - that whole mailing process is expensive and I wonder if parents actually are submitting it in advance at schools where for example the number is greater than 50%. Why spend money on the mailing?
that link is to the free lunch application. There is a box that can be checked for NO -don't have social security number for the parent/guardian. I guess they are the children of illegal immigrants because anyone else would have a #.
2 in household $25,327 , 5 in household $44,641 annual income
I remember reading the numbers went up - the cIP last year had South Lkaes at a litle over 25% and now it's at 33%. FCPS mails the letter every year and provides postage paid envelpes for the return - that whole mailing process is expensive and I wonder if parents actually are submitting it in advance at schools where for example the number is greater than 50%. Why spend money on the mailing?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
CH
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:44PM
Re mailings: Postage is only paid on envelopes when someone uses them. (I just can't help shedding truth on things.)
Re link: The links are funky on this website. If you go to the fcps.edu website, go to site index, click on "P" and find pupil placement.
**SIGH** Folks might notice that no one at South Lakes is AGAINST any of the other schools. Many of us have actually been talking about ways we would love to celebrate and welcome our new communities when the time comes. The opposite seems to be true of some people from our neighboring schools. It's a shame.
Re link: The links are funky on this website. If you go to the fcps.edu website, go to site index, click on "P" and find pupil placement.
**SIGH** Folks might notice that no one at South Lakes is AGAINST any of the other schools. Many of us have actually been talking about ways we would love to celebrate and welcome our new communities when the time comes. The opposite seems to be true of some people from our neighboring schools. It's a shame.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 04:58PM
gridlock
If those black and hispanic kids you are referencing are the ones needing the time-out rooms, than I don't want my kids in school with them.
When will you liberals stop calling everyone a racist? Take some imodium, already! You've thrown the word around so much, it's lost its meaning. Reminds me of car alarms constantly going off in parking lots when no one's stealing them.
If those black and hispanic kids you are referencing are the ones needing the time-out rooms, than I don't want my kids in school with them.
When will you liberals stop calling everyone a racist? Take some imodium, already! You've thrown the word around so much, it's lost its meaning. Reminds me of car alarms constantly going off in parking lots when no one's stealing them.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Show me the money
()
Date: November 16, 2007 05:06PM
BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid Parent
>
> I think YOU need to open up YOUR mind. People who
> bought their homes based on the schools in their
> communities are now are being told that their
> children will be bused into a different school
> district.
>
Dear Bird Brain,
No one, not one SLHS parent has ever advocated BUSING kids. Busing implies moving "white" students from their nearby school to a less racially balanced school to balance out a school's race. Conversely, it implies moving undesirable students from their closest school to a school with a more "desirable school.
Here is a busing situation - move Dogwood students (only the brown ones please!) out of SLHS and BUS them to Oakton. Or here is another busing scenario - move Waples Mill students from Oakton to South Lakes.
IS THAT WHAT PEOPLE ARE ADVOCATING? IF SO, SHOW ME THE POSTS/COMMENTS!
BUT here is what people are actually advocating. And let's take Fox Mill Elementary students as an example since some already attend SLHS. Let's move them from Oakton (9 miles away) to their closest high school - oh my, it just happens to be SOUTH LAKES (at a whopping 2 miles away).
It's not called busing, it's called logic.
>When will you liberals stop calling everyone a racist?
Here we get the thrust of your argument - South Lakes parents are liberals - ahhh, we get it now. Hey, do you know NEEN?
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid Parent
>
> I think YOU need to open up YOUR mind. People who
> bought their homes based on the schools in their
> communities are now are being told that their
> children will be bused into a different school
> district.
>
Dear Bird Brain,
No one, not one SLHS parent has ever advocated BUSING kids. Busing implies moving "white" students from their nearby school to a less racially balanced school to balance out a school's race. Conversely, it implies moving undesirable students from their closest school to a school with a more "desirable school.
Here is a busing situation - move Dogwood students (only the brown ones please!) out of SLHS and BUS them to Oakton. Or here is another busing scenario - move Waples Mill students from Oakton to South Lakes.
IS THAT WHAT PEOPLE ARE ADVOCATING? IF SO, SHOW ME THE POSTS/COMMENTS!
BUT here is what people are actually advocating. And let's take Fox Mill Elementary students as an example since some already attend SLHS. Let's move them from Oakton (9 miles away) to their closest high school - oh my, it just happens to be SOUTH LAKES (at a whopping 2 miles away).
It's not called busing, it's called logic.
>When will you liberals stop calling everyone a racist?
Here we get the thrust of your argument - South Lakes parents are liberals - ahhh, we get it now. Hey, do you know NEEN?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 05:12PM
CH,
You have a lack of respect regarding people who don't want to move their kids. You are not being affected. You chose to put your kids in South Lakes. We have not and we don't want our kids moved. This is being shoved down OUR throats, not yours.
You have a lack of respect regarding people who don't want to move their kids. You are not being affected. You chose to put your kids in South Lakes. We have not and we don't want our kids moved. This is being shoved down OUR throats, not yours.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLParent
()
Date: November 16, 2007 05:12PM
Why do any of you care if a student is on Free or Reduced lunch? It drives me crazy that this issue is a common theme.
I am with the kids of SL all the time (no I don't work at the school) and believe it or not actually talk to the kids. My own kids grades or test scores haven't slipped because of these students. Amazing but true.
They talk the same, they play sports the same and they behave the same. Just because someone doesn't come from a certain income family home does not make them a less desirable student.
I know some of you will reply to this email with a blanket statement about all SL students so "post away".
I am with the kids of SL all the time (no I don't work at the school) and believe it or not actually talk to the kids. My own kids grades or test scores haven't slipped because of these students. Amazing but true.
They talk the same, they play sports the same and they behave the same. Just because someone doesn't come from a certain income family home does not make them a less desirable student.
I know some of you will reply to this email with a blanket statement about all SL students so "post away".
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 06:05PM
Show me the money,
RE: Busing
I never claimed that South Lakes parents were advocated busing.
I did say that I don't want my kids moved out of our school district and bused, oops, transported to another district.
Re: the word 'racist'
I never said that South Lakes parents were liberals.
I did say that liberals have overused the racist insult and I suggested the use of Imodium.
RE: Birdbrain
Clearly you don't know much about birds. Their brains are actually rather complex. I'd be happy to direct you to some literature, if you'd be interested.
RE: Busing
I never claimed that South Lakes parents were advocated busing.
I did say that I don't want my kids moved out of our school district and bused, oops, transported to another district.
Re: the word 'racist'
I never said that South Lakes parents were liberals.
I did say that liberals have overused the racist insult and I suggested the use of Imodium.
RE: Birdbrain
Clearly you don't know much about birds. Their brains are actually rather complex. I'd be happy to direct you to some literature, if you'd be interested.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdBrain
()
Date: November 16, 2007 06:10PM
Spanky,
Unfortunately, you are correct.
Unfortunately, you are correct.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
VaDriver
()
Date: November 16, 2007 06:27PM
Why do South Lakes parents want our children so badly?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
OhReally?
()
Date: November 16, 2007 06:36PM
VaDriver,
Good question. They certainly want our children, don't they? It's almost a little scary. If they have such a utopia going on there, why would they be clamoring to get our kids? Weird. Very Weird.
Good question. They certainly want our children, don't they? It's almost a little scary. If they have such a utopia going on there, why would they be clamoring to get our kids? Weird. Very Weird.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
geturfacts straight
()
Date: November 16, 2007 08:47PM
please educate yourself before you slam programming at South Lakes.........Positive Behavior Support Programs or PBS is a school-wide discipline program with the emphasis on school-wide systems of support that include proactive strategies for defining, teaching, and supporting appropriate student behaviors to create positive school environments. Instead of using a patchwork of individual behavioral management plans, a continuum of positive behavior support for all students within a school is implemented in areas including the classroom and nonclassroom settings (such as hallways, restrooms). FCPS encourages and supports adoption of PBS in ALL of its schools! Teaching behavioral expectations and rewarding students for following them is a much more positive approach than waiting for misbehavior to occur before responding. The purpose of school-wide PBS is to establish a climate in which appropriate behavior is the norm. ALL of fcps schools have misbehaving students, students who engage in unlawful behavior as well as students who engage is age typical behavior such as cutting class. Focus on promoting SLHS increasing its availability to more advanced classes instead of misjudging it with your ignorance.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
OhReally?
()
Date: November 16, 2007 09:13PM
geturfacts,
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
VA driver posted a question.
WHY DO YOU WANT OUR KIDS SO BADLY?
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
VA driver posted a question.
WHY DO YOU WANT OUR KIDS SO BADLY?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
parentinsouthlakesschool
()
Date: November 16, 2007 09:36PM
We dont want your children. We have a good school here without your children.
We will get better programs if your kids come here. I'm not sure how it all works but thats what I know. And this way we all win.
We will get better programs if your kids come here. I'm not sure how it all works but thats what I know. And this way we all win.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
geturfacts straight
()
Date: November 16, 2007 09:59PM
I am not a SL parent. My neighborhood is actually slated for Oakton. YOUR Opinions, judgements and evaluations should be made based on fact not ignorance nor fear of diversity.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Property Rights/Wrongs
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:08PM
All of you that are potentially affected by a redistricting here, and are complaining about your kids being moved or your property values going down, are the ones who DID NOT DO THEIR HOMEWORK before buying your homes!!! Fairfax County has periodically done the same sorts of adjustments that they are talking about here for at least 40 years!! If you wanted to ensure that your children would go to Madison or Oakton or whereever, you should have bought a house within walking distance of that school.
If you want a historical example, the Annandale neighborhood of Camelot was redistricted in 1974 from the Woodson HS district to the Falls Church HS district, when Falls Church intially started showing signs of what was then a decline in the number of students projected to go to that HS. Many other boundary changes have been made over the years, with both new schools being built and with situations arising like that noted above.
If you chose to live in Fairfax County, your only "entitlement" is to have your children be eligible to attend County schools. You have no entitlement to which one! Shame on you for not having done your homework better...
If you want a historical example, the Annandale neighborhood of Camelot was redistricted in 1974 from the Woodson HS district to the Falls Church HS district, when Falls Church intially started showing signs of what was then a decline in the number of students projected to go to that HS. Many other boundary changes have been made over the years, with both new schools being built and with situations arising like that noted above.
If you chose to live in Fairfax County, your only "entitlement" is to have your children be eligible to attend County schools. You have no entitlement to which one! Shame on you for not having done your homework better...
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
SLHS Padre
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:11PM
OhReally? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> geturfacts,
>
> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,
> BLAH
>
> VA driver posted a question.
>
> WHY DO YOU WANT OUR KIDS SO BADLY?
What is it about morons that causes them to do the UPPER CASE thing to highlight what buffoons they are?
We don't want you, because you would be even more insufferable in person, for God's sake.
Your kids might stand a chance, if they could get away from you for a while.
-------------------------------------------------------
> geturfacts,
>
> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,
> BLAH
>
> VA driver posted a question.
>
> WHY DO YOU WANT OUR KIDS SO BADLY?
What is it about morons that causes them to do the UPPER CASE thing to highlight what buffoons they are?
We don't want you, because you would be even more insufferable in person, for God's sake.
Your kids might stand a chance, if they could get away from you for a while.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
PAL
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:14PM
geturfacts straight
" I am not a SL parent. My neighborhood is actually slated for Oakton. YOUR Opinions, judgements and evaluations should be made based on fact not ignorance nor fear of diversity."
How are you "slated" for Oakton? Also, what area/school do you live in?
" I am not a SL parent. My neighborhood is actually slated for Oakton. YOUR Opinions, judgements and evaluations should be made based on fact not ignorance nor fear of diversity."
How are you "slated" for Oakton? Also, what area/school do you live in?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:38PM
>>>pressure the school board to step back and recall what is important (at the end of the day it is not the school but the students).<<<
That's EXACTLY the problem. The school board doesn't focus on students, they care about 'schools' and principals, and not the students. Ditto staff. It's a big bureaucracy. When did a bureaucracy ever focus on those they are supposed to serve? They don't. They focus on themselves, and their agenda.
That's EXACTLY the problem. The school board doesn't focus on students, they care about 'schools' and principals, and not the students. Ditto staff. It's a big bureaucracy. When did a bureaucracy ever focus on those they are supposed to serve? They don't. They focus on themselves, and their agenda.
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
BirdLover
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:38PM
Property,
1974... That's your big historical example. You might as well remind us of the redistricting of the Indians.
You're not a developer who stands to gain from this, are you? How many pockets have you lined, so far?
1974... That's your big historical example. You might as well remind us of the redistricting of the Indians.
You're not a developer who stands to gain from this, are you? How many pockets have you lined, so far?
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by:
Neen
()
Date: November 16, 2007 10:41PM
>>>>The bottom line - if we can get the board to step back and look at alternatives for the real issue, we are more likely to achieve some meaningful results. That may or may not include redistricting -- but it would certainly move us in the right direction moer quickly.
Most folks I have spoken to SL, Oakton, Chantilly, etc. are for a positive result for all. They are just feeling cornered into saying if they are for or against redistricting which should not be the issue. The positive of all of this is that there is greater awareness of this imbalance which is detrimental to SL students. The best way to resolve -- force a change in focus for the next meeting to one of solving the real problem!<<<<
Great idea! If only our esteemed leaders had done that from the beginning. Better late, than never. Let's hope they are as wise as FFXDAD.
Most folks I have spoken to SL, Oakton, Chantilly, etc. are for a positive result for all. They are just feeling cornered into saying if they are for or against redistricting which should not be the issue. The positive of all of this is that there is greater awareness of this imbalance which is detrimental to SL students. The best way to resolve -- force a change in focus for the next meeting to one of solving the real problem!<<<<
Great idea! If only our esteemed leaders had done that from the beginning. Better late, than never. Let's hope they are as wise as FFXDAD.