>>>they want a community school<<<

but they want students from outside the community to go there? Can't have it both ways.

SLVerity - I think you are right - it is simply uncontestable - be it band, or sports, or theater, that on a comparative basis, it is simply much more difficult for schools with a population half that of neighboring schools to have programs as competitive as the other schools. Most sports (I will talk to what I know) profit immensely from having great numbers come out, particularly because there are so many high school kids that don't show star potential in 9th grade that once they have the opportunity to work daily in a structured environment improve greatly. A close friend and coach back home with a state record of over 30 championships has always informed me it really is simply about numbers, and more numbers. I would be surprised if the same phenomena doesn't come into play with music and theater. And frankly it is a factor in redistricting - not that sports, etc, should be paramount - but generally speaking it is nice to field competitive teams and full bands, and it adds to the school's sense of spirit and progress. I think being blunt and open about that makes sense.

By the way, the one sport that typically can profit from just having one or two superstars is basketball - but even there you need depth because the zone defenses and ability to slow down the game at the high school level can equalize a few superior talents. South Lakes, like other high schools with great basketball
talent, has been hurt by the immense popularity and corrupting forces of AAU basketball - which has lessened the importance of high school ball - unfortunate for South Lakes (they lost an All American player to one of the AAU driven prep aka basketball factory high schools) - which benefits in terms of school spirit from having a great team. In other words, the Wendell Byrds of the world who oozed credibility with kids no longer toil at the local high school - they instead now curry favor with the shoe company du jour to run AAU teams, the ultimate 6 games in two days learn how not to play defense or take care of the ball experience. This is a loss. I mention this AAU stuff because amidst all of the rancor about school redistricting the gloss that has been rubbed off of high school ball (and it is happening to the women, too) is not the fault of the schools or the parents or anyone in the community - and yet it takes away from an experience - especially in the cold of winter - that has historically bound communities closer. (Witness Herndon's run the last few years, which we won't see again for a while). So it is something we can all agree on without much conflict.

*repost of note that was last post of previous page*

Just back from the Chantilly meeting. If Fairfax County schools is among the best there is to offer, I hate to see the other guys! They did the presenation on the web site, then did the Q&A. Boy was that bad. Why no Langley? "see the web site...they're not over capacity (since they're building an addition)". "No decisions have been made". They asked the crowd who wanted the status quo...everybody except the contingent of South Lakes parents stood and applauded.
Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I went to Stu afterwards and described his performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.

>>>They asked the crowd who wanted the status quo<<<

Why did they ask that question? Are they so naive as to think they'd get anything over than the response that they got? Does that mean we get to keep the status quo, since they bothered to ask?

Why can't our school board take responsibility for the decisions that made?

Oakton parent is so right, what a bunch of cowards. Who does Stu Gibson think he works for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear not. It would appear he answers to no one.

If no decisions have been made, then start with discussing alternatives to redrawing the boundaries. Then move on to including Langley and Madison in the mix.

Clarification..."They asked the crowd" should have read "A questioner from the audience asked the crowd [who wanted the status quo]"

Sports, theater, and band are simply not compelling reasons for changing anything with schools. If kids want those things, they can either go to a school where sports are most important, or play in the area sports. Every community has baseball and football teams. Every community has theatre. Every school has a band. None of things are sufficient reasons for redistricting.

Perhaps South Lakes could become the theater and music magnet school. Those who care most about those things could go to South Lakes. Or it could be the football and basketball magnet, like other schools in Virginia that concentrate on sports. Personally, I think schools should be about academics and an academic magnet would be preferable. But let the people decide, not Stu Gibson.

>>>A questioner from the audience asked the crowd [who wanted the status quo]"<<<

Oh, yes, of course, because we all know that the staff and school board doesn't care what the people want.

>>>The purpose is not to boost test scores at a supposed low performing school. It is about under/overenrollment<<<

If test scores at South Lakes were decent, there wouldn't be an under enrollment problem. Fix South Lakes problems, BEFORE you force others into the school to mask those problems. Educate the kids! Don't paste over their scores and them!

I wasn't at the meeting but I hear that the school board members refused to answer any questions directed toward them? Why the hell not? Who do they work for? They need to take some responsibility for the mess they've made.

I also heard that there was quite a police presence. That tells me that staff and school board knew how contentious this issue would be, yet they refuse to retreat, not an inch. They won't consider ANYTHING that the people want. Disgusting.

Question for South Lakes fans...if you look at the presentation on the fcps.edu site, that was shown at the meeting, the one school that they have not been able to predict enrollment for with pretty good accuracy (<5%) four years ahead is South Lakes. Four years ago the planners thought it would be at 1700+ now, but it's only 1400+. Don't say its because people's kids grew up and left that school, that was included in the plan, and all the other schools didn't show this problem. Each year of the last several, the estimate was revised downward by close to 100 students. Is that due to unexpected changes in housing stock (fewer people for some reason), or by unexpected changes in school age population (people moving or such), or by low "yield" in terms of school age kids showing up at South Lakes?

Neen wrote: "Who does Stu Gibson think he works for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear not. It would appear he answers to no one. "

On the contrary, he works for the public in an office that he won in a open and fair election. Remember that election just 6 days ago?

You had your shot--you lost. Apparently, your argument that the taxpayers should pay to run a half-empty SLHS, and bus hundreds of students past it didn't catch on with the average voter.

You failed because your arguments amount to: me, me, me, I'm special. A mob of such losers doesn't make the argument any more compelling.

I hope somebody taped the show tonight and posts it on YouTube, so everyone can see the overgrown babies whine.

David, I've got no dog in this hunt.

Are you saying that since Stu won the election, the public needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do whatever he wants?

You know what's funny? Stu's middle name is David and you sound JUST like him.
Probably just a coincidence. ;)

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The same thing can be said for
> > > > the music program. I know that in the all
> > > > district bands, not many kids from South
> > Lakes
> > > > make districts. That has nothing to do
> with
> > > the
> > > > size of the program because that is an
> > > individual
> > > > audition. They will now be competing for
> > > chairs
> > > > in their own program with kids from
> > Westfield,
> > > > Oakton or Chantilly, all of whom regularly
> > send
> > > > many kids to districts and will likely take
> > > those
> > > > top spots.
> > >
> > > Please don't confuse size with talent. You
> may
> > > want to check your numbers on All-District
> Band.
> >
> > > SL has sent many kids to All-District Band,
> > most
> > > in great chair positions. I recall that we
> > > actually sent more than Chantilly two or
> three
> > > years ago. I will ask the band director for
> > the
> > > stats and post them here this week. If I am
> to
> > > understand you correctly, are you saying that
> > > percussionists from Westfield and Chantilly
> > would
> > > have beaten out, for example, Kyle
> > > Brightwell-Class of 2006, now a percussionist
> > at
> > > the Juilliard School, for first chair
> > percussion?
> > > Just because we are smaller does not mean we
> > don't
> > > have talented kids. We just don't have as
> many
> > of
> > > them.
> > >
> > > Are you also saying that the odds are just as
> > good
> > > if 50 kids audition as they are if 100 kids
> > > audition? I am no mathematician, but I'm
> > pretty
> > > sure that the odds are on the larger group.
> >
> >
> > I do apologize if South Lakes has, in fact,
> sent
> > more than the other schools on a percentage
> basis,
> > though I don't think the stats will bear that
> out.
> > A Julliard acceptance is quite an
> accomplishment,
> > but one student does not make a program. Has
> the
> > South Lakes band program ever recieved Honor
> Band
> > status? I checked the VBODA website and it
> does
> > not appear that it has, going back to 1981
> anyway.
> > I know that there are smaller bands that do
> > recieve superiro ratings, so why would I want
> my
> > children, should they participate in band, to
> be
> > moved to a school with a program less optimal
> than
> > that of the high school they are currently
> slated
> > to attend? I have also heard anecdotally from
> > someone wihtin the SL community that the band
> > director at South Lakes is "salivating" over
> the
> > possibility of getting some Oakton, Chantilly
> or
> > Westfield kids.
>
> I don't see what the problem is. If your kids are
> as great and talented as you say they are, would
> that not improve the band to your standards? Why
> don't we put them to the test?


Why should we have to? Because one school is in need of an oboe/bassoon/bass trombone, etc. player, we have to ship one over from another school, leaving them with none?

Aww come on David, you can do better than that...Stu won due to inertia, and because the people who are unhappy in general couldn't vote for him because they were not in his district. Fox Mill voted against him by 2:1, but the South Lakes and Madison crowd has nothing to complain about so they voted him back in. The knock on Stu isn't that he's not politically savvy, its that he's a clueless administrator who pushes pet programs while schools in his district (Dogwood, McNair) embarrass the rest of the district.

South Lakes being undercapacity has everything to do with how South Lakes was managed in years gone by, causing net loss of students in its district vs. other districts in ways that demographics don't fully explain. Your comment shows you don't understand the concerns of people who don't want to see their kids lives disrupted so that we can move some empty classrooms from South Lakes to Westfield...where's the sense in doing that? There will be the same number of students, the same number of classes, we won't improve overall capacity utilization.

Oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just back from the Chantilly meeting. If Fairfax
> County schools is among the best there is to
> offer, I hate to see the other guys! They did the
> presenation on the web site, then did the Q&A.
> Boy was that bad. Why no Langley? "see the web
> site...they're not over capacity (since they're
> building an addition)". "No decisions have been
> made". They asked the crowd who wanted the status
> quo...everybody except the contingent of South
> Lakes parents stood and applauded.
> Stu, Kathy, etc, were there, and said NOTHING. I
> went to Stu afterwards and described his
> performance (or lack thereof) as cowardice.


Ha! Not only did Stu not say anything, when he was asked a direct question and handed the microphone by the questioner, he put the mic down and refused to even turn around to the crowd. He didn't answer that particular question (Would the school board support a moratorium on redistricting should the outcome of these meetings prove that the majority of the citizens feel that is what is best?) because he was AFRAID to do it.

Neen wrote: "Are you saying that since Stu won the election, the public needs to sit down, shut up, and let him do whatever he wants?"

Here's some facts to counter your drivel rhetoric:
1) Gibson is one of 12 elected members of the School Board--hardly the dictator of western Fairfax.

2) Of the slate of 5 candidates endorsed by stoprd.org, only one was elected, and that by the slimmest margin.

3) County regulation mandates the public input sessions, so no one "needs to sit down, shut up". It's an opportunity to offer constructive input, not call people cowards.

david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen wrote: "Who does Stu Gibson think he works
> for? Isn't he a 'public servant'? It would appear
> not. It would appear he answers to no one. "
>
> On the contrary, he works for the public in an
> office that he won in a open and fair election.
> Remember that election just 6 days ago?
>
> You had your shot--you lost. Apparently, your
> argument that the taxpayers should pay to run a
> half-empty SLHS, and bus hundreds of students past
> it didn't catch on with the average voter.
>
> You failed because your arguments amount to: me,
> me, me, I'm special. A mob of such losers doesn't
> make the argument any more compelling.
>
> I hope somebody taped the show tonight and posts
> it on YouTube, so everyone can see the overgrown
> babies whine.


Actually, nobody was whining in my small group. There were several parents there from South Lakes who liked, approved of and added to the discussion of bringning a magnet school to South Lakes. THey thought a magnet or acadamy school would bring the school the "educational resources" it needs. which is what these particular SL parents said they want. They didn't care about sports teams, just a fair distribution of resources and they thought a magnet school would get them that.

david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen wrote: "Are you saying that since Stu won the
> election, the public needs to sit down, shut up,
> and let him do whatever he wants?"
>
> Here's some facts to counter your drivel
> rhetoric:
> 1) Gibson is one of 12 elected members of the
> School Board--hardly the dictator of western
> Fairfax.
>
> 2) Of the slate of 5 candidates endorsed by
> stoprd.org, only one was elected, and that by the
> slimmest margin.
>
> 3) County regulation mandates the public input
> sessions, so no one "needs to sit down, shut up".
> It's an opportunity to offer constructive input,
> not call people cowards.

He was a coward tonight. If you cannot stand up for what you believe in, then what are you? If he believes so strongly in his rationale for not including Langley or for not posing a moratorium on the whole process, then why can't he say that? People were angry, but I guarantee they would have listened to him.

But does the regulation mandate that the school board take ANY of the community input under consideration? I could have sworn I heard someone say tonight that the board can actually do whatever it wants to do regardless of the hours spent at these meetings. THat is why they moved 600 kids from Hayfield to South County against community input at these meetings, and then turned around and had to move 500 of them back the next year. Makes me a bit cynical about the process.

What will happen if the majority of the people at these meetings do not support any boundary change but support a magnet/academy program? What if people simply refuse to pit neighborhood against neighborhood? Friend against friend?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will happen if the majority of the people at
> these meetings do not support any boundary change
> but support a magnet/academy program? What if
> people simply refuse to pit neighborhood against
> neighborhood? Friend against friend?


I was pleasantly surprised at the polite and encouraging atmosphere in the particular small group I was in. We had people there from every single school affected. I did hear of some groups where people were throwing whole neighborhoods under the bus. I was glad my group had people who were actively listening and particpating responsibly. Like I said, even the South Lakes people were happy with the thought of a magnet school and they added their tallies to that idea on the sheet.

Yes, as far as I know, the school board can do whatever they want. Each school board member decides what is best in his district for his schools. The other 12 will agree to whatever Stu wants because no school board member wants someone else messing around with the schools in their district. But it would be very difficult if the community simply refused to come up with any redistricting plan, refused to throw their neighbors under the bus, and was united in wanting to go back to the drawing boards and explore all the options, including Langley, and including magnets.

Many parents WANTED to leave Hayfield and go to South County, especially higher income parents. They got what they wanted too. Now Hayfield is in worse shape than ever and South County is way over enrolled.

Stu, er, I mean, David, please behave here just as you did at tonight's meeting. Sit down, and shut up.

Thank you.

Neen wrote: "David, please behave here just as you did at tonight's meeting. Sit down, and shut up."

Neen, when I want your advice, I'll beat it out of you. So I'm pissing you off? Being called out for your childish demagoguing hurts? Too bad, it's not going to stop.

A troll has come our from under the bridge. Said troll didn't even go the the meeting, but has said more about it than anyone else. Interesting.

Clarifying the school board electiono results...Stu got less than 14,000 votes this go around, vs. almost 16,000 in 2003, with a much larger percentage of the vote (39%) going to the competition this time. Kathy Smith did get more votes than she did in 2003, about 12,000 vs. about 10,000, but almost as many people voted against her this time (9000+) as elected her in 2003, so she's not carrying the broadest of mandates.

Of the three at large stoprd candidates, they all finished with 14% of the vote to the nearest percentage, trailing only the top two candidates who had 19% and 18%. So, while Raney may have won by the slimmest of margins, with 69,309 (or almost five times as many as Stu...), Constantino at 66,275 and Braunlich at 65,514 clearly drew broad county support as well.

That's probably why no more schools were included in the boundary study..another few percent of the vote and all three could have claimed at large seats...if Madison had been in the survey, Stu might be out of here.

Stu/David, You aren't pissing me off in the least, I'm having fun. Apparently someone rattled your caged tonight. You sound REALLY angry. Hahahaha........take a deep breath. No one likes you, but why would that bother you? It never has before.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David, I've got no dog in this hunt.
>
>
Then WHY do you continue to dominate the board? Every other post is yours and you didn't go to the meetings and have no children affedted by the boundary study. You live in Vienna, correct?

You even answer your own questions. And when you accuse everyone about being "STU" it seems like you're the one with something to hide.

You obviously have some some political argument with Stu Gibson, Gerald Connolly, Cathy Hudgins and all other democrats. What does this have to do with redistricting? Oh, I know redistricting is some kind of democratic plot against taxpayers in the county.

Please give us a break and find something else to get involved in, maybe sudoku. Or illegal immigration - there looks to be another forum on that topic, you could have a blast on that.

Troll police,
What makes you think that David/Stu didn't go to the meeting? Of course he did. That's why he's so mad. No one liked his little proposal. Or him.

Ah, but David isn't the troll. I think that someone is channeling TM, though.

BTW, I actually kind of like David and think he contributes a lot of facts on this board.

Thanks Old Timer, but I know more about this issue than the others. I care more about kids than illegals, but thanks for the ideas. I think I'll stay here to see how this plays out.

Who would be as mad as 'David', other than Stuart DAVID Gibson? We can't really blame the poor guy, no one wants his proposal. :(

Not to worry, he's got police protection, protection from his own community/taxpayers/voters. How sad. Maybe he should have consulted them before he went down this road. Just a thought.

Just curious, is Stu supposed to placate his constituents who don't want redistricting at the expense of his constituents in Reston who do want it? Or don't the Reston folks count?

Hmm07 and others wrote positively about a magnet program: "even the South Lakes people were happy with the thought of a magnet school and they added their tallies to that idea on the sheet."

That sounds nice, and everybody loves a happy compromise. But it doesn't really address the core issues:

FCPS can't be sure that students will actually enroll in the magnet (isn't the IB program practically a magnet?);

it drives up busing costs and complexity;

it doesn't predictably reduce crowding at Westfields and Chantilly;

SLHS doesn't have "sufficient capacity available at South Lakes to operate two high schools in one building (see http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm#15")

Everyone here talks about throwing someone under the bus--but what exactly is so horrible about being redistricted? My kids go to different schools; it's no big deal. I can see changing schools would suck for individual students, but grandfathering can eliminate that.

Answer: it's all about the parents' fear of change, i.e., not a rational basis for making decisions.

Let the public decide. Consult them first.

TJ is a magnet, there doesn't seem to be any problem in getting kids to go there. AND they work out busing for the entire county. Part of South Lakes could be for the over flow TJ students, TJ2 for the TJ kids in the northern part of the county, McLean, Vienna, Westfield, Chantilly, and Oakton TJ students go to South Lakes. The TJ courses and classes go with them. TJ's way over crowded AND about to be renovated. Move 1/3 to 1/2 of that student body to South Lakes, and problem solved. TJ kids won't need to commute so far, safe bus costs, and South Lakes is filled. OR do the same thing with a TJ program for humanities, for those students in the county who aren't into math and science. Use all 700 seats for that. It would fill up immediately, if it offered the right course.

Of course they could operate both schools at South Lakes. Many schools, all over the country, do it.

The magnet programs at Montgomery Blair is not lacking in applications or students. Something similar could be done at South Lakes. OR make it a real IB magnet, like at Richard Montgomery. That's worked too.

There is NO reason not to explore some of these other options. It's far better than pitting one neighborhood against another. Make South Lakes so that people WANT to go there, rather than forcing them to go. That will get so ugly, with so much resentment and anger. It could all be avoided. If only our School Board was open to what the people want. Let the people explore the options and decide what will work best. Boundary changes are not the ONLY solution to under enrolled schools and it certainly isn't the best solution.

I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea of redistricting for the purpose of relieving overpopulated schools by bringing more students (and their families) to our South Lakes HS "community." However, after attending Monday night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish, uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can to keep yourselves and your children as far away as possible from our extremely intelligent, diverse, talented, open-minded, and global thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to think of the negative impact that your bullying personalities would have on our children. Oh, and echoing a question that I heard several times at the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY VALUES!?!?!"

Great! If the entire community opposes any redistricting, including South Lakes parents, then the school board will be forced to listen to alternatives to this boundary study! Good news for everyone!

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>they want a community school<<<
>
> but they want students from outside the community
> to go there? Can't have it both ways.

Do you consider your school a community school? Does it have students from more than one town? By community school we mean one where the students come from the surrounding area and not the other side of the county. It would be nice if Reston could be unified but that does not mean that adding a different nearby school such as fox mill or crossfield would not also make a community school.

Oh. Which community decides what constitutes a community school? People at South Lakes? Or just the school board? As far as I know, McLean high school has only McLean students. Madison has only Vienna kids. Forcing students to go to South Lakes, who don't want to be there, won't help the community school feeling.

Having kids from all over the county didn't seem to be a problem at TJ. It made for some great diversity, but they also loved their school. I know that South Lakes really likes diversity. So why wouldn't they welcome students from other areas of the county? Students who REALLY want to be there, like kids at TJ?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sports, theater, and band are simply not
> compelling reasons for changing anything with
> schools. If kids want those things, they can
> either go to a school where sports are most
> important, or play in the area sports. Every
> community has baseball and football teams. Every
> community has theatre. Every school has a band.
> None of things are sufficient reasons for
> redistricting.
>
> Perhaps South Lakes could become the theater and
> music magnet school. Those who care most about
> those things could go to South Lakes. Or it could
> be the football and basketball magnet, like other
> schools in Virginia that concentrate on sports.
> Personally, I think schools should be about
> academics and an academic magnet would be
> preferable. But let the people decide, not Stu
> Gibson.



Neen,

You have much to say and good things to contribute. It is a pity that you sit at home and have these conversations with your self on this board while the rest of us are out there braving it at the meeting and speaking our peace. So what if your kids, your community aren't affected by all of this, you do no good as the couch potato commentator.

Wow...

"I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea of redistricting for the purpose of relieving overpopulated schools by bringing more students (and their families) to our South Lakes HS "community." However, after attending Monday night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish, uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can to keep yourselves and your children as far away as possible from our extremely intelligent, diverse, talented, open-minded, and global thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to think of the negative impact that your bullying personalities would have on our children. Oh, and echoing a question that I heard several times at the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY VALUES!?!?!"

Your kids will never come into contact with most of these parents, since only a few of them can be parents of kids moving to South Lakes. Feel better now?

However, any kids who DO go to South Lakes will "be exposed" to you, since you'll be around right? Not assigning blame, just an observation. How does this motivate those parents whose kids could be moved to feel their kids will be going to a good environment?

A lot of people expressed a strong preference for "overcrowding" vs. redistricting. They also expressed that if the South Lakes boundary area needs to be enlarged, it should be done looking at all schools around South Lakes, including e.g. Madison, which is forecast to be overcrowded in the future.

david Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmm07 and others wrote positively about a magnet
> program: "even the South Lakes people were happy
> with the thought of a magnet school and they added
> their tallies to that idea on the sheet."
>
> That sounds nice, and everybody loves a happy
> compromise. But it doesn't really address the
> core issues:
>
> FCPS can't be sure that students will actually
> enroll in the magnet (isn't the IB program
> practically a magnet?);
>
> it drives up busing costs and complexity;
>
> it doesn't predictably reduce crowding at
> Westfields and Chantilly;
>
> SLHS doesn't have "sufficient capacity available
> at South Lakes to operate two high schools in one
> building (see
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/fa
> q.htm#15")
>
> Everyone here talks about throwing someone under
> the bus--but what exactly is so horrible about
> being redistricted? My kids go to different
> schools; it's no big deal. I can see changing
> schools would suck for individual students, but
> grandfathering can eliminate that.
>
> Answer: it's all about the parents' fear of
> change, i.e., not a rational basis for making
> decisions.


I'm not afraid of change. I just want the change to be well thought out before it disrupts thousands of people...and when you include families, that number will definitely reach into the thousands. If I thought for one minute that they would actually grandfather all kids who have started high school I would not be so adamently opposed to this whole thing. But it is a given fact that Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith are liars and I don't trust them to honestly grandfather anyone. Until I hear that, and until I hear that there will be a full complement of AP classes TAUGHT BY A REAL LIVE TEACHER IN A REAL LIVE CLASSROOM at any school to which my kids will be moved, I will not support any redistricting at all. You just can't fix one school at the expense of another. THERE WILL BE NO OVER CROWDING at any one of the schools....except Langley, by the time they phase everyone in, the problem will be solved everywhere but South Lakes. This is not about over-enrollment. It is about raising test scores on the backs of the kids you are going to force out of their own schools.

Providing an incentive for people to WANT to attend South Lakes is the better idea. If you can get several hundred more students there, all of whom want to be there and will have a vested interest in the success of the school, then that is a win-win for everyone. They don't care one minute about the costs because if they did, they wouldn't be spending millions on an addition to solve over crowding at Langley when SL is underenrolled. They had a capacity in mind when they built Westfields, and they were sticking to that number until it stopped supporting the efforts to move kids to South Lakes and then that number was suddently "not optimal." THey aren't kidding anyone.

LH to SL parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a South Lakes parent who was open to the idea
> of redistricting for the purpose of relieving
> overpopulated schools by bringing more students
> (and their families) to our South Lakes HS
> "community." However, after attending Monday
> night's boundary meeting at Chantilly HS, I have
> decided that I do not want my, soon-to-be, South
> Lakes children exposed to the immature, selfish,
> uppity, narrow-minded, ranting parents that I
> witnessed at that meeting. Please, do all you can
> to keep yourselves and your children as far away
> as possible from our extremely intelligent,
> diverse, talented, open-minded, and global
> thinking South Lakes students. If you are, heaven
> forbid, forced to come to South Lakes, I'd hate to
> think of the negative impact that your bullying
> personalities would have on our children. Oh, and
> echoing a question that I heard several times at
> the meeting, "WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY PROPERTY
> VALUES!?!?!"

I was at the meeting and not once did I hear the phrase "property values."

I was at the meeting and heard about property values several times.

On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many people talk about keeping their community schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet against their will. Don't you all think we want a community school too?

I think SLVerity had it right. Let's just take all of our tax receipts and keep them in Reston. Invest in SL school, and have such a great, small school that would rival a private school. The only way to get in would be to buy in Reston. Property values in Reston would go through the roof.

How does that sound to everyone? Are you willing to give up what Reston taxes bring to your school so that Reston schools can be great?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 08:50AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

from the maps i have seen, Madison Island is a no brainer move to South Lakes, and an additional community nearest to South Lakes. DONE> Still can't believe the "Madison Island" in RESTON goes to Madison.

There are no "Reston tax receipts". There are taxes on commercial buildings located in Reston, but they go to the county, which provides the services for Reston.

(Unrelated thought: it might be amusing to see what the Reston Homeowner's association would come up with though. Dress codes, for sure. No politically incorrect speech, naturally. An attempt to opt out of No Child Left Behind and Virginia SOLs would be a given, since they focus on results rather than behavior. BTW, my kids attended Lake Anne elementary school.)

The issue with Reston schools is not lack of money. The issue is a history of mismanagement which has driven away school age families and discouraged new ones from coming in. Looking objectively at school performance, the same issues affect Dogwood elementary, and to a lesser extent Langston Hughes. Its just so sad that the solution to that mismanagement is to take kids who had nothing to do with the problem and tell them they have to leave their friends behind.

Oakton parent,
Now are you catchiing on...That is correct. All of Reston's taxes go to FFX county and help pay for all of your wonderful programs at Oakton. I would venture to guess Reston's tax reciepts far eclipse Oakton's. And, I know complex interrelationships are difficult for you to understand, but all of those high-taxed high rises and business DON'T generate lots of school aged children. Hence, the reason Reston generates high tax revenues is the SAME reason it is underenrolled.

If you don't want any part of this, as you say, then let Reston keep it's tax receipts AND its schools apart from the rest of FFX county. You really can't have it both ways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 09:18AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at the meeting and heard about property
> values several times.
>
> On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many
> people talk about keeping their community schools
> intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet
> against their will. Don't you all think we want a
> community school too?
>
> I think SLVerity had it right. Let's just take all
> of our tax receipts and keep them in Reston.
> Invest in SL school, and have such a great, small
> school that would rival a private school. The
> only way to get in would be to buy in Reston.
> Property values in Reston would go through the
> roof.
>
> How does that sound to everyone? Are you willing
> to give up what Reston taxes bring to your school
> so that Reston schools can be great?


As to your magnet issues, you should probably take that up with the South Lakes parents in my room (there were about 8 of them sitting together) ALL of whom supported with enthusiasm the idea of a magent program. Not one of them brought up "community school" but rather were concerned with "resources" throughout the entire discussion. And why should other kids be removed from what they consider to be their own "community school" to be placed into another school that is 1) NOT their community and 2) doesn't even have the same academic curriculum as their former community school?

I truly want the people of South Lakes to be happy. I think it is a history of Stu and his cronies completely and utterly mismanaging the schools over there that has put them in this position. But that happiness cannot and should not come at the expense of another's...or in this case, thousands of others.

I have almost zero faith in FCPS to get this right. They were there last night to make a presentation to adults and couldn't even manage to have correct data on their slide presentation. The data they did have was almost insulting...Since when is school spirit a bad thing? That slide was absurd. What was Betsy Goodman's response to the crowd about that slide? "OH well, I didn't want to put that one on there. I told them not to but THEY MADE ME PUT THAT THERE" WHo is "THEY?" THe inmates were running the asylum...

"On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so many people talk about keeping their community schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a magnet against their will. Don't you all think we want a community school too?"

That's sort of a disingenuous argument. If Oakton was underenrolled, I wouldn't object to having a magnet program in there. We're talking about approx. 150 kids per grade level. If it's an attractive magnet, and if the school is as pleasant as all (except TM) the SL parents feel it is, then students will come, they will have school spirit. They will participate in sports, etc. Some students who want to escape overcrowding would come from Westfield and Chantilly. How would that make it not a community school? Any way you add students they will be coming from outside the current community, so why does it matter so much?

As far as the magnet being against your will, come on, is having a quality magnet in your school more negative than being redistricted? ( to a school with fewer offerings than our current ones)

I don't want to name call, but SOME SL parents are being very, well, spoiled. Give us more students, give us "good students" (not McNair please, or just a few of them), and stop hurting our feelings by saying you don't want to come to our wonderful school, sniff. I came into this forum to learn about the issue, and I have not been dead set against SL, but if you're going to whine, you're going to alienate people like me who could have worked cooperatively to find a mutually acceptable solution.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton parent,
> Now are you catchiing on...That is correct. All
> of Reston's taxes go to FFX county and help pay
> for all of your wonderful programs at Oakton. I
> would venture to guess Reston's tax reciepts far
> eclipse Oakton's. And, I know complex
> interrelationships are difficult for you to
> understand, but all of those high-taxed high rises
> and business DON'T generate lots of school aged
> children. Hence, the reason Reston generates high
> tax revenues is the SAME reason it is
> underenrolled.
>
> If you don't want any part of this, as you say,
> then let Reston keep it's tax receipts AND its
> schools apart from the rest of FFX county. You
> really can't have it both ways.


Businesses in Reston do NOT pay the bulk of taxes... they actually get a TAX BREAK. Property taxes pay for the schools, and If I had to bet I'd say the residents of chantilly fairfax and centerville pay more porperty taxes than the residents of reston.


and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be redistricted to SL will lose value because SL does not have the same reputation as Oakton Westfield or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even right, but it is reality.

SLPP...let me type more slowly so you can keep up...

Businesses pay taxes, check.

Schools cost money, check.

People in one part of the county can erect artificial boundaries at a whim to "keep" tax revenue from businesses located within those boundaries, when those busineses were attracted by the county's services, including schools, that were created by people outside those boundaries in the first place? Umm...no. Nice try, but it's a silly argument. You didn't create those businesses any more than I did. You have no prior claim to their tax revenue.

The Reston businesses didn't reduce the enrollment at South Lakes. South Lakes used to have 2000+ students in the same boundaries. Maybe you should be asking what happened in Reston in general and South Lakes in particular to make it so north Reston doesn't want to go there? Or were you going to fence them out too?

how the tax system in Va works..


http://www.virginiaplaces.org/classschedule/14tax.html

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> As to your magnet issues, you should probably take
> that up with the South Lakes parents in my room
> (there were about 8 of them sitting together)

Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting together in your group? Base on my own family's experience at the meeting, and that of several people I have spoken with, we were spread pretty thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject hyperbole to make your point, would you?

chantilly mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> and yes, like it or not, the homes who will be
> redistricted to SL will lose value because SL does
> not have the same reputation as Oakton Westfield
> or Chantilly. This may not be fair or even right,
> but it is reality.

Tell me Chantilly Mom, if your kids and those at Oakton, and Westfield are as superior as everyone likes to say, then why would they not improve the reputation of SL if they were to attend?

Oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP...let me type more slowly so you can keep
> up...
>
> Businesses pay taxes, check.
>
> Schools cost money, check.
>
> People in one part of the county can erect
> artificial boundaries at a whim to "keep" tax
> revenue from businesses located within those
> boundaries, when those busineses were attracted by
> the county's services, including schools, that
> were created by people outside those boundaries in
> the first place? Umm...no. Nice try, but it's a
> silly argument. You didn't create those
> businesses any more than I did. You have no prior
> claim to their tax revenue.
>
> The Reston businesses didn't reduce the enrollment
> at South Lakes. South Lakes used to have 2000+
> students in the same boundaries. Maybe you should
> be asking what happened in Reston in general and
> South Lakes in particular to make it so north
> Reston doesn't want to go there? Or were you
> going to fence them out too?


Aside from businesses, I also referred to the high-priced high rises that are filled with DINKs and retirees. These people pay a lot of taxes and don't contribute many kids. This has been the majority of the residential development in Reston for awhile, which is part of the reason for the underenrollment. Why is it so hard to understand how Reston demographics influence the underenrollment problem?

All I'm saying is if you don't want to deal with the problems in Reston, then perhaps you don't want our tax money either. After all, we will need it to "fix our own problems" as many of you like to say. This way, we get our community school, you all stay where you are, and everyone is happy, right?

And I have talked to more than a few people in North Reston who would not mind going to South Lakes if the AP issue was taken care of.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:33AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
> > As to your magnet issues, you should probably
> take
> > that up with the South Lakes parents in my room
> > (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
>
> Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> together in your group? Base on my own family's
> experience at the meeting, and that of several
> people I have spoken with, we were spread pretty
> thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more
> than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> hyperbole to make your point, would you?

There were eight. Four sitting together on the back row to the right, one of whom said she not only was a parent (or parent to be) but was also an alumni of the school. There was a lady in the middle row on the right, two sitting together on the right in the front row and one to the left side of the other front row who stated he lived in the SL district but has no kids that would be affected, which I took to mean he either has grown kids or no kids. Would you like for me to describe what they were wearing? I can even remember a few of their names. You want my room number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole to make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "On the magnet--it's interesting to me that so
> many people talk about keeping their community
> schools intact, yet are so ready to make SL a
> magnet against their will. Don't you all think we
> want a community school too?"
>
> That's sort of a disingenuous argument. If Oakton
> was underenrolled, I wouldn't object to having a
> magnet program in there. We're talking about
> approx. 150 kids per grade level. If it's an
> attractive magnet, and if the school is as
> pleasant as all (except TM) the SL parents feel it
> is, then students will come, they will have school
> spirit. They will participate in sports, etc. Some
> students who want to escape overcrowding would
> come from Westfield and Chantilly. How would that
> make it not a community school? Any way you add
> students they will be coming from outside the
> current community, so why does it matter so much?
>
> As far as the magnet being against your will, come
> on, is having a quality magnet in your school more
> negative than being redistricted? ( to a school
> with fewer offerings than our current ones)
>
> I don't want to name call, but SOME SL parents are
> being very, well, spoiled. Give us more students,
> give us "good students" (not McNair please, or
> just a few of them), and stop hurting our feelings
> by saying you don't want to come to our wonderful
> school, sniff. I came into this forum to learn
> about the issue, and I have not been dead set
> against SL, but if you're going to whine, you're
> going to alienate people like me who could have
> worked cooperatively to find a mutually acceptable
> solution.


I think a magnet should be something that would be decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after all, our school you guys are tossing around like a football.

And I don't understand what you mean by a "disingenuous argument". Are you saying that I'm lying when I say I want a community school? Why would I lie, and how would you know that anyway?

And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be acceptable to all, including South Lakes parents, right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:34AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Oakton Parent,

I suggest you go back and read this entire thread. A lot of the questions you are asking about Reston have been answered before.

Reston is an aging community.
Reston (SL pyramid) is has been built out for years, with the exception of high density development around the RTC - units that don't produce kids.
Much of the housing in Reston does not attract families anymore, as housing standards have gotten bigger, people want garages, etc.
Families are attracted to new development.
We have lost neighborhoods due to prior redistricting - this has been explained in detail on this post.
Areas around Reston that used to be farms were and still are being developed. Those homes are in other school districts, some of which are now overcrowded.
Reston is not a town, we are a postal address just like all of you.
Please stop trying to put an arbitrary boundary around Reston to keep you out.

We all moved into Fairfax County, which has a large school system. You all bought into the school system. Redistricting, just like s$%*, happens. Instead of griping about not wanting to be moved, why not consider how to make the best of whatever happens. I've lived here for 25 years and I have lived through and survived several redistricting fights. My children survived several redistricting fights. Guess what? They are more resilient than you think.

I know that you all want the best for your families. So do we SL parents. I have seen a lot more attacks on this board generated toward SL parents (and students) than the other way around. We are naturally in a defensive position. I have people's intelligence questioned, their parental judgment questioned, and their honesty questioned.

I know we are all better than that. If we aren't, then God help us.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 10:47AM by SLVerity.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > As to your magnet issues, you should probably
> > take
> > > that up with the South Lakes parents in my
> room
> > > (there were about 8 of them sitting together)
>
> >
> > Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> > together in your group? Base on my own
> family's
> > experience at the meeting, and that of several
> > people I have spoken with, we were spread
> pretty
> > thin. I have not spoken with anyone with more
> > than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> > hyperbole to make your point, would you?
>
> There were eight. Four sitting together on the
> back row to the right, one of whom said she not
> only was a parent (or parent to be) but was also
> an alumni of the school. There was a lady in the
> middle row on the right, two sitting together on
> the right in the front row and one to the left
> side of the other front row who stated he lived in
> the SL district but has no kids that would be
> affected, which I took to mean he either has grown
> kids or no kids. Would you like for me to
> describe what they were wearing? I can even
> remember a few of their names. You want my room
> number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole to
> make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)

If indeed your group had 8 SL parents in it, then I am sorry I accused you of hyperbole. I had not heard that we were as well represented as that; in fact, going in we were concerned that we would be totally outnumbered and would not have representation in every group. Perhaps many more showed up than our numbers indicated, which would warm my heart.

> I think a magnet should be something that would be
> decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
> all, our school you guys are tossing around like a
> football.

Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop tossing your school around, just leave me and my kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?



>
> And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> acceptable to all, including South Lakes parents,
> right?

Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or do the people from the other schools have to do all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmmm07 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > As to your magnet issues, you should
> probably
> > > take
> > > > that up with the South Lakes parents in my
> > room
> > > > (there were about 8 of them sitting
> together)
> >
> > >
> > > Are you sure there were 8 SL parents sitting
> > > together in your group? Base on my own
> > family's
> > > experience at the meeting, and that of
> several
> > > people I have spoken with, we were spread
> > pretty
> > > thin. I have not spoken with anyone with
> more
> > > than 2 SL parents/group. You wouldn't inject
> > > hyperbole to make your point, would you?
> >
> > There were eight. Four sitting together on the
> > back row to the right, one of whom said she not
> > only was a parent (or parent to be) but was
> also
> > an alumni of the school. There was a lady in
> the
> > middle row on the right, two sitting together
> on
> > the right in the front row and one to the left
> > side of the other front row who stated he lived
> in
> > the SL district but has no kids that would be
> > affected, which I took to mean he either has
> grown
> > kids or no kids. Would you like for me to
> > describe what they were wearing? I can even
> > remember a few of their names. You want my
> room
> > number? And no, I "wouldn't inject hyperbole
> to
> > make my point." I wouldn't lie either. :)
>
> If indeed your group had 8 SL parents in it, then
> I am sorry I accused you of hyperbole. I had not
> heard that we were as well represented as that; in
> fact, going in we were concerned that we would be
> totally outnumbered and would not have
> representation in every group. Perhaps many more
> showed up than our numbers indicated, which would
> warm my heart.

Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by the numbers,but by how pleasant they were and seemingly willing to listen to other creative solutions in an effort to get resources (not necessarily "student resources) into their school. They were pleasant, and with one exception, not one of them tried to throw out a name of any particular school they wanted moved to SL. Rather they listened to and understood the importance for EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and blue walking into the room, I was worried that it was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we don't want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen here. But what these people did was to address the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to disrupt as few people as possible. If that meant moving a magnet into their school then they were actually pretty happy with that. Like I said, they all added their tally marks to that very idea on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.


Like I said, I found the South Lakes parents in my group to be exceptionally willing to listen to compromise solutions such as magnet schools. I am beginning to think that the South Lakes views on this forum, that I thought were pretty representative of the school parent population are not necessarily that at all. I don't think there will be a problem convincing South Lakes parents to entertain magnet school thoughts at all. I think the problem will be with the school board because they are the ones driving this entire unnecessary process. THey must not have anything else to do.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.


At what point did everyone in the community turn against the parents and student of South Lakes? As a parent of South Lakes I don't remember visiting with the COO of FCPS and telling him I wanted re-districting.

Yes our school is underpopulated due to many reasons as already described on this blog. But please stop placing the blame on SL (especially the students). We are trying to provide information to everyone else about the school and stop the incorrect assumptions. IT'S A GOOD SCHOOL.

I can't believe some of the comments that came out of some of the meeting last night. It was disturbing how some of the adults were acting.

hmmmm07 wrote
>
> Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by the
> numbers,but by how pleasant they were and
> seemingly willing to listen to other creative
> solutions in an effort to get resources (not
> necessarily "student resources) into their school.
> They were pleasant, and with one exception, not
> one of them tried to throw out a name of any
> particular school they wanted moved to SL. Rather
> they listened to and understood the importance for
> EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their
> needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and
> blue walking into the room, I was worried that it
> was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we don't
> want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen
> here. But what these people did was to address
> the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to
> disrupt as few people as possible. If that meant
> moving a magnet into their school then they were
> actually pretty happy with that. Like I said,
> they all added their tally marks to that very idea
> on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.

See how nice we SL parents can be? Why wouldn't you want your kids in school with the children of such pleasant people? Question: were the other parents in your group as exceptionally willing to consider redistricting as an option? My guess is probably not. Why should all the give be on our side?

Perhaps they were agreeable because they had already been subjected to the rancorous scene in the session just prior, and didn't want to make waves. My spouse felt very fairly intimidated in his/her group and had to listen to a lot of insulting comments about SL. I think a statistician would tell you that you shouldn't count on that one focus group as being representative of the whole group.

SLVerity,
No one is blaming the students. We're blaming you, the parents at South Lakes, for letting this situation get out of control to the point that someone else has to fix YOUR problem.

BTW, if SL was a good school, parents from the surrounding districts would be falling over themselves trying to get in. Seems the opposite is continuing to happen.

Thanks, Chantilly Mom, for the tax primer, and thanks also, Oakton Parent, for the opportunity -- once again -- to redress the stereotype of what Reston is and is not.

I attended the meeting last night and was pleasantly surprised by the civility -- on all sides -- at the small group meetings, and about the willingness to hear different perspectives on issues, such as moratorium, Langley, pyramid integrity, AP/IP, etc. Not sure if it moved the ball, but it was heartening. The general meeting was a bit of a zoo, although FCPS really didn't do a good job in addressing questions raised.

The SLHS and Reston community often hears the suggestion that this whole redistricting exercise is underway to rescue wayward, hapless Reston. And that's ludicrous. We would like to utilize all of the opportunities afforded by a newly-renovated county facility, but we aren't looking for a rescue, bailout and/or infusion of "high-quality" students otherwise lacking.

Of course, no one, including SLPP, is suggesting that Reston erect boundaries around it to protect tax revenue, but also we are asserting that we --- as part of a economically robust county with a well-funded county public school system -- get an appropriate share of resources to maintain an equal opportunity to participate in an effective,viable county-wide system.

So, if Reston has provided a reasonably high share of job and employment opportunities for other county residents that live in primarily/exclusively residential communities, then we should get a fair, not a disproportionate, share of the resources -- tax dollars -- provided by the people who live and work in the county.

I note this particularly because of the frequently voiced, yet misguided, point (made last night at the Chantilly meeting, for example) that SLHS gets an expensive expansion, while it is under-attended and "under-performing", and other schools are barely above their respective limits.

SLHS has been undergoing a renovation -- long overdue by the way (and Reston "sandal-wearing, koombiyah-singing" residents did not design, nor favor, the original SLHS structure, btw) -- as a FCPS high school. It is not an expansion.

With the renovation, SLHS is prepared to welcome additional students to utilize the county facilities efficiently, which will help the county's kids, community, business, and -- ultimately -- the tax base.

As to why SLHS has a reduced student base, Oakton Parent implies that there has been flight from and broad resistance within Reston to attending SLHS.

I can speak anecdotally but in our neighborhood in south Reston, I know of only two families that either sent their kids to private school or moved (and still attend private schools). Some families have one or more of their kids attend TJ, but otherwise, all families send their kids to SLHS --- and are pleased with that choice. Many empty-nesters still live in Reston, having seen their kids off to school, and - until recently - many young families did not buy houses bought new houses. That appears to be changing. In the last two years, we have seen a number of young families move into our neighborhood, as evidenced, e.g., by budget issues for upgrades/new playground equipment long under-utilized and off-radar. I believe -- but can't quantify - that Reston elementary schools are also seeing higher attendance.

In north Reston (i.e., Aldrin and Armstrong, which feeds to Herndon), my friends and neighbors are not uniform in their views about attending SLHS. Some would love to, e.g., to attend a Reston school with teammates, church members, and neighbors. Others are wary b/c of the SLHS reputation, the shorter commute to Herndon, the higher? Herndon test scores. But I do not see a deeply-entrenched consensus or even a majority that the part of north Reston attending Herndon refuses to consider attending SLHS/Hughes.

spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> No one is blaming the students. We're blaming
> you, the parents at South Lakes, for letting this
> situation get out of control to the point that
> someone else has to fix YOUR problem.
>
> BTW, if SL was a good school, parents from the
> surrounding districts would be falling over
> themselves trying to get in. Seems the opposite
> is continuing to happen.

Spanky, I'm confused. Aren't you a resident of the SL Pyramid, thus a SL parent? What have you done to improve the school? As I recall, you pulled your kids out and into private school. Please don't try to pin this on the SL parents. We would have welcomed the help of parents who bailed out.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmmm07 wrote
> >
> > Then your heart should be warmed. Not only by
> the
> > numbers,but by how pleasant they were and
> > seemingly willing to listen to other creative
> > solutions in an effort to get resources (not
> > necessarily "student resources) into their
> school.
> > They were pleasant, and with one exception,
> not
> > one of them tried to throw out a name of any
> > particular school they wanted moved to SL.
> Rather
> > they listened to and understood the importance
> for
> > EVERYONE's children to be happy and have their
> > needs met. Honestly, when I saw the green and
> > blue walking into the room, I was worried that
> it
> > was going to be a "we don't want magnets, we
> don't
> > want McNair"..stuff similar to what I've seen
> > here. But what these people did was to address
> > the issues South Lakes has in a way so as to
> > disrupt as few people as possible. If that
> meant
> > moving a magnet into their school then they
> were
> > actually pretty happy with that. Like I said,
> > they all added their tally marks to that very
> idea
> > on the lovely butcher paper on the wall.
>
> See how nice we SL parents can be? Why wouldn't
> you want your kids in school with the children of
> such pleasant people? Question: were the other
> parents in your group as exceptionally willing to
> consider redistricting as an option? My guess is
> probably not. Why should all the give be on our
> side?
>
> Perhaps they were agreeable because they had
> already been subjected to the rancorous scene in
> the session just prior, and didn't want to make
> waves. My spouse felt very fairly intimidated in
> his/her group and had to listen to a lot of
> insulting comments about SL. I think a
> statistician would tell you that you shouldn't
> count on that one focus group as being
> representative of the whole group.


Answer: Everyone in my group was willing to consider redistricting as an option provided it was a complete study including both Langley and Madison (not just the island.)

I'm sorry your spouse felt intimidated at the large group session. Frankly, that session was poorly handled from the get go. You can't offer a question and answer session but refuse to answer questions. That said, I think the emotion brought forth at that meeting was a great representation fo just how emotionally committed peole are to their schools. That is only going to get worse if they continue with this. I think the next two meetings will be worse, frankly, because they get closer to the end. I think people also feel like this is a done deal anyway. I will say this. If they are TRULY going to listen to what people said at the meeting, then two of the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this wil get much more ugly before it gets nice. I was pleased with my small group, but that doesn't mean every group was that way. I guess I just got lucky.

SLVerity, you answered a question other than the one I asked. I wasn't talking about historical information, but rather changes in the last foure years. Here are the numbers I am asking about, which came from a deck in the last three days so could not have been discussed previously in this very long thread....

Here is what people thought the enrollment for this school year would be at the various high schools in the study, using projection data from 2003 (four years ago):

Chantilly: 2,856
Oakton: 2,378
Madison: 1,866
Westfield: 3,220
Herndon: 2,272
South Lakes: 1,683

Here is the number of kids who actually showed up this year, with the difference in absolute and percentage terms:

Chantilly: 2,856, +18, +1%
Oakton: 2,378, -28, -1%
Madison: 1,910, +44, +2%
Westfield: 3,171, -49, -2%
Herndon: 2,190, -82, -4%

Pretty darn good overall, wouldn't you say? Except...

South Lakes: 1,443, -240, -14%

Why is it that the enrollment for the school in the planned community is the only one that is a statistical outlier here in terms of being incorrect, almost four time as incorrect as the second largest variance?

I don't think your answers cited above address this:


Reston is an aging community.

> Aging is extremely predictable, and similar to Vienna etc.

Reston (SL pyramid) is has been built out for years, with the exception of high density development around the RTC - units that don't produce kids.

> Again, these developments were all known about in 2003, they weren't surprises.

Much of the housing in Reston does not attract families anymore, as housing standards have gotten bigger, people want garages, etc.

> Similar situation applies to Vienna, Waples Mill, etc. to varying degrees.

Families are attracted to new development.

> Again, the new developments were known in 2003

We have lost neighborhoods due to prior redistricting - this has been explained in detail on this post.

> Not in the last four years.

Areas around Reston that used to be farms were and still are being developed.

> This was all known in 2003.

My question still stands...what unpredicted change happened in the last four years in Reston to cause this change? The year I chose is not an anomoly, I just didn't want to type in the whole table, it's on the fcps.edu site if you want to check it yourself. If you back one year more, the projection for South Lakes was 1767, so the number that showed up is then off by more than 300, more than a typical elementary school...these people left the district for a reason.

Spanky rhymes with Wanky:


You moved; we won.

If
> they are TRULY going to listen to what people said
> at the meeting, then two of the scenarios
> presented at the next meeting will be 1)no
> redistricting (but examination of other ways to
> bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets
> brought into the study. If you walked around and
> looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items
> were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came
> from every classroom.

Does anyone know when and where we can view the results of last night's meeting? I took a quick look on the FCPS website but didn't see anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 11:55AM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> My question still stands...what unpredicted change
> happened in the last four years in Reston to cause
> this change? The year I chose is not an anomoly,
> I just didn't want to type in the whole table,
> it's on the fcps.edu site if you want to check it
> yourself. If you back one year more, the
> projection for South Lakes was 1767, so the number
> that showed up is then off by more than 300, more
> than a typical elementary school...these people
> left the district for a reason.

I can't provide an answer, other than to say that the projections by the SB aren't always right (e.g., Westfield and South County numbers way off).

I have read that neighborhoods typically have a 20-25 year turnover time, which coincides with families growing and the parents moving on. So every area experiences drops due to that. It takes time for neighborhoods to fill back up with children. I think that is happening in the older areas of Reston, such as Hunters Woods. Vienna probably had their drop several years ago, as the community is older than Reston. By virtue of the fact that Vienna is primarily single family residences, it is much easier for old houses to be scraped and new ones built. Additionally, lots are larger and garages can be easily added. Witness the regrowth in Vienna Woods.

Reston developments aren't as flexible. We have many more units per acre, and many are townhouses. It is a given fact that redevelopment is virtually impossible in a townhouse development. If you go into the HW area of Reston (single family homes) you will find that some redevelopment is taking place, one lot at a time.

Because of the impediments to making improvements and the relatively small percentage of single family homes in Reston, and the changes in housing standards, we have not attracted as many families. You should not extrapolate that this is primarily due to the reputation of South Lakes. I think it is a confluence of events.

Despite what some on this board have said, there are many residents paying taxes in Reston who do not demand services (read: school) from the County, and since 50% of the County's budget is devoted to schools, I would say that Reston pays its fair share, residentially.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If
> > they are TRULY going to listen to what people
> said
> > at the meeting, then two of the scenarios
> > presented at the next meeting will be 1)no
> > redistricting (but examination of other ways to
> > bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley
> gets
> > brought into the study. If you walked around
> and
> > looked at the gallery afterwards, those two
> items
> > were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came
> > from every classroom.
>
> Does anyone know when and where we can view the
> results of last night's meeting? I took a quick
> look on the FCPS website but didn't see anything.

I'm not expecting it to be anytime soon. One of the technical questions asked in my room last night was how long it will take for them to correct the errors on the PowerPoint slides that did not show Crossfield as an Oakton Feeder and apparently another slide that had some numbers wrong. The answer we got from teh IT people was "a few days at least to get something like that fixed." If it takes days to get a school put onto a one slide, I'm not sure how long it might take to actually get data presented. One very interesting thing I noticed last night. When it was over I saw two or three people walking around taking pictures of all the pages. Someone wants to make sure the school board is honest, I guess.

As the downward trend in enrollment continues at SL, by 2013 there should be about 1000 students there. Since the surrounding school districts will also be underenrolled by then, its safe to say that the Westfields, Chantilly, Madison, Oakton, and Herndon schools could all absorb roughly 200 students.

The county could close SL, sell the land it's on, and reimburse the taxpayers and our children for wasting money on renovating the culinary arts wing.

I'm sorry your spouse felt intimidated at the large group session. Frankly, that session was poorly handled from the get go. You can't offer a question and answer session but refuse to answer questions. That said, I think the emotion brought forth at that meeting was a great representation fo just how emotionally committed peole are to their schools. That is only going to get worse if they continue with this. I think the next two meetings will be worse, frankly, because they get closer to the end. I think people also feel like this is a done deal anyway. I will say this. If they are TRULY going to listen to what people said at the meeting, then two of the scenarios presented at the next meeting will be 1)no redistricting (but examination of other ways to bring kids to South Lakes) and/or 2) Langley gets brought into the study. If you walked around and looked at the gallery afterwards, those two items were OVERWHELMINGLY the top two items that came from every classroom. IF they continue pitting neighbor against neighbor, school against school, this wil get much more ugly before it gets nice. I was pleased with my small group, but that doesn't mean every group was that way. I guess I just got lucky.
----------------

I agreed with your assessment. This is a DONE deal and the so called "community input" is just a "charade". Unfortunately, I was sick last night and coudn't attend...but was dismayed to hear that there was a strong police presence at Chantilly. It seemed that the board was afraid that parents were going to mob them? This is deja vu from years ago. There will be NO input from us....they already know what they need to know. Stu doesn't listen to anybody.....I read someone mentioned that his neighbor received a hung up from Stu because he dared to ask about the boundaries. SO, don't expect any response from the board. It is really a waste of everyone's time to even attend these meetings, just publish whatever in the community newspaper and give us the 3 boundary scenarios already in the works so we know in advance....some people will move and some people will register their kids to private school. For me....it is a wait and see. AP courses are the driving force for our family regardless of the school.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I think a magnet should be something that would
> be
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> after
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have more
> good courses at your school? I'll be happy to stop
> tossing your school around, just leave me and my
> kids and neighbors out of this whole affair,deal?
>
>
>
> >
> > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should be
> > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> parents,
> > right?
>
> Yes, but it might also involve some compromise. Or
> do the people from the other schools have to do
> all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.


OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better than some of the alternatives" or "better than having hostile, bullying parents in the school", then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of the compromising.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I think a magnet should be something that
> would
> > be
> > > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> > after
> > > all, our school you guys are tossing around
> like
> > a
> > > football.
> >
> > Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> > around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> > SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have
> more
> > good courses at your school? I'll be happy to
> stop
> > tossing your school around, just leave me and
> my
> > kids and neighbors out of this whole
> affair,deal?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should
> be
> > > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> > parents,
> > > right?
> >
> > Yes, but it might also involve some compromise.
> Or
> > do the people from the other schools have to do
> > all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
>
>
> OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes
> gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get
> everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes
> parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better
> than some of the alternatives" or "better than
> having hostile, bullying parents in the school",
> then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of
> the compromising.


I see your point and honestly can't come up with how a magnet would be a compromise for those of us who wouldn't have to move. However, it appears to me that it is down to who gets hurt most? Those who *have to have new courses added to their school and many kids HAPPILY and VOLUNTARILY coming into the school establishing a new school spirit and higher scores? Or those who have to move out of a school they have grown to love and consider to be a community?

So do we end up compromising in an effort to get South Lakes a nice magnet program? Not especially. But I do think that what we give up in the alternatives is so much greater that it can't even be quantified.

I think a magnet should be something that would be
> decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
> all, our school you guys are tossing around like a
> football.

Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be sitting there and you *will get more students and you *will get more resources, and you *will get higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be presented, including magnet school potential. YOU will not be uprooting and moving your kids from the school they love and have grown up loving, and yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous. The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to become of their teammates, their best friends, the relationships they have cultivated with their teachers and you are whining because people are trying to come up with a solution for your kids to get everything you say you want without potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people and YOU are tossed around?

I for one do not support another magnet, particularly if it is a 'Western TJ,' as has been suggested. I personally don't like the brain drain out of our local schools. A magnet would likely fill up spaces and boost test scores, but it would not be as helpful to the community base.

South Lakes already houses the MMR program for this end of the County, and though we love those students, they comprise roughly 18% of our population. Those are kids who do not take IB classes/tests, do not play sports, do not participate in band, etc. They do affect our numbers. Would one of the surrounding schools accept them and the staff that accompanies them? I would consider that a possible compromise. Would all of you?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 12:42PM by SLVerity.

I am a future South Lakes parent (current Hunters Woods) and went to the meeting last night. With only one exception, all the parents handled their comments real well regarding their concerns and we all got along. One common thread was why isn't Langley included.

If they go with a magnet school:

My concerns are about how it would be implemented. The best approach would be for a TJ west, with the county adding the teachers/programs regardless of the number of students who initially sign up. That way the programs start to get implemented now and no one has to worry if they are going to go back on their word. It would take a commitment of budget dollars to do this, but it should pay off. The school gets the courses it needs and those in the western and northern parts of the county can go to a GT school closer to them. We would not get the benefit of broader community support, but it would be a way to get the teachers that are needed. My biggest concern is the following scenario: they promise a magnet school, then they do a poor job of implementation, the students don’t sign up, and nothing has changed.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I think a magnet should be something that
> would
> > be
> > > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is,
> > after
> > > all, our school you guys are tossing around
> like
> > a
> > > football.
> >
> > Umm, I think that if anyone is getting tossed
> > around, it's the people who will have to CHANGE
> > SCHOOLS. How disruptive would it be to have
> more
> > good courses at your school? I'll be happy to
> stop
> > tossing your school around, just leave me and
> my
> > kids and neighbors out of this whole
> affair,deal?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And a "mutually acceptable" solution should
> be
> > > acceptable to all, including South Lakes
> > parents,
> > > right?
> >
> > Yes, but it might also involve some compromise.
> Or
> > do the people from the other schools have to do
> > all the accomodating, leave our schools, etc.
>
>
> OK, what is the compromise for you if South Lakes
> gets a magnet? Doesn't that mean you get
> everything YOU want? If some or many South Lakes
> parents view a magnet as "not ideal, but better
> than some of the alternatives" or "better than
> having hostile, bullying parents in the school",
> then it sounds to me like we would be doing all of
> the compromising.


I guess that depends on the nature of the magnet. I don't know all the possible scenarios, but it would be nice if we could all have some choice in this. I just don't see why a magnet is such a negative, it seems to me like it would be a positive development for the school. If it were a magnet that appealed to my kids' talents, I'd seriously consider sending them. I would think that the SL community would have a lot of input about what programs are in the school. Did you all want the culinary program? If not, then sorry. If so, then fine. It sounds like some SL parents are open to the magnet possibility. If you want people to want to come there, then make it attractive (not just a new building). Whether you think it's fair or not, most people don't want to right now. A magnet could change that.

Part of the problem here is that we are all trying to negotiate but at the end of the day we don't really know how much power we have, if any. Most non-SL parents want to stay put. I guess most SL parents want more students. If it were just between those two groups, we'd have more power because we have no incentive to change. Parents in my neighborhood who want to send their kids to SL can do it now by pupil placement.

In my opinion the real enemy is the school board because when all is said and done they will do whatever they want. However, it's possible that many families will not send their kids to SL, so you don't get what you want either. My reason for saying a magnet is a compromise is that you might actually get the number of kids you need. With redrawn boundaries, you might, you might not. At least with a magnet you'd get what I hope would be a desirable program.

Oh well, it probably doesn't matter because the evil school board thinks it knows best.

If somewhere between 600-700 new students start attending SLHS, and are taken out of other FCPS schools, has anyone addressed the issue of how to recruit new, outstanding teachers, who will be willing to step into such a heated, pressure-filled, and unknown situation? I know that there is already a teacher shortage in math, science, and foreign languages? How would that be resolved? Any thoughts, what has been heard, what has been discussed? Are there any rules within FCPS personnel regs that could force certain teachers to a new school or allow them to stay at their present school, ie tenure, subject taught, or other qualifications?

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a magnet should be something that would be
>
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
>
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be
> sitting there and you *will get more students and
> you *will get more resources, and you *will get
> higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and
> reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be
> presented, including magnet school potential. YOU
> will not be uprooting and moving your kids from
> the school they love and have grown up loving, and
> yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a
> football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous.
> The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and
> Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to
> become of their teammates, their best friends, the
> relationships they have cultivated with their
> teachers and you are whining because people are
> trying to come up with a solution for your kids to
> get everything you say you want without
> potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people
> and YOU are tossed around?

We are not getting fewer ESOL and reduced lunch students. We have never suggested moving those kids to other schools. We don't want to bear the burden of any more disadvantaged kids, and it really would not be fair to move more in. I think you can understand the logic in that.

All we would be doing is adding more middle class families to the school.

hmmmm7,
Thanks for understanding an SL point of view.

I think we all feel like footballs, that is the essence of the problem.

A TJ-like magnet--what would my bright but not brilliant kids get from that? Seriously, what would be the benefit to them? It would pull more teachers etc. away and they would end up with no more services than they have now. I'd rather have more bright-but-not-brilliant kids that they could hang with, etc, from nearby neighborhoods where they could maintain the friendships.

You should all understand that, that's what you say you want for your kids.

So, we all feel like footballs and we all want the same things for our kids. And no matter what the scenario, someone loses.

It's a zero sum game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:06PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> high-priced high rises that are filled with DINKs
> and retirees.

Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not paying taxes.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If somewhere between 600-700 new students start
> attending SLHS, and are taken out of other FCPS
> schools, has anyone addressed the issue of how to
> recruit new, outstanding teachers, who will be
> willing to step into such a heated,
> pressure-filled, and unknown situation? I know
> that there is already a teacher shortage in math,
> science, and foreign languages? How would that be
> resolved? Any thoughts, what has been heard, what
> has been discussed? Are there any rules within
> FCPS personnel regs that could force certain
> teachers to a new school or allow them to stay at
> their present school, ie tenure, subject taught,
> or other qualifications?

SL has recruited great teachers over the last few years, and I don't think any scenario would be an impediment. If school enrollment drops, the formulas indicate that the school will lose teachers, but I think the only schools that will lose enrollment will be the overcrowded ones (Westfield, Chantilly). And please no comments about how they are really not overcrowded - it's been discussed here many times. I would bet that many teachers would consider relocating to SL. They would have an outstanding boss in Bruce Butler.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> > high-priced high rises that are filled with
> DINKs
> > and retirees.
>
> Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not
> paying taxes.


There are many high-priced condos in RTC. And someone has to own them and pay taxes on them, whether it's a landlord or homeowner.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aside from businesses, I also referred to the
> > high-priced high rises that are filled with
> DINKs
> > and retirees.
>
> Only if they "own" if they're renting, they're not
> paying taxes.

So does that mean that the landlords don't have to pay taxes on the units? If that's the case, I'm running out right now to invest in some rental property.

Per my sugguestion on compromise, any takers for the MMR program in exchange for a magnet? I think it would have to be Oakton, since those parents say they will be under-enrolled in the next couple of years. Westfield would be another possibility, though, since they have the space and since these kids would not add to competition for sports, etc.

I'm not hearing a flood of responses so far.

Background on the MMR program: Each school used to house its own MMR program. One of the brilliant, yet cowardly ways that the school board addressed the issue of declining enrollment at SL in the past was to consolidate all of the surrounding programs into one school and put it at SL. Again, the kids are great, but it did not help our school in the ways that you all seem to value (e.g., test scores, sports team sizes, etc.).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:13PM by SLVerity.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Per my sugguestion on compromise, any takers for
> the MMR program in exchange for a magnet? I think
> it would have to be Oakton, since those parents
> say they will be under-enrolled in the next couple
> of years. Westfield would be another possibility,
> though, since they have the space and since these
> kids would not add to competition for sports,
> etc.
>
> I'm not hearing a flood of responses so far.


Sorry, what's MMR?

Mildly Mentally Retarded, though I really should have used the correct term - Special Ed - the program also includes severely disabled (both mentally and physically) students and they come from other districts, including Oakton. They actually comprise 19.1% of our total population.

You may not have seen this prior edit so I am reposting:

Background on the MMR program: Each school used to house its own MMR program. One of the brilliant, yet cowardly ways that the school board addressed the issue of declining enrollment at SL in the past was to consolidate all of the surrounding programs into one school and put it at SL. Again, the kids are great, but it did not help our school in the ways that you all seem to value (e.g., test scores, sports team sizes, etc.).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:19PM by SLVerity.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a magnet should be something that would be
>
> > decided by the South Lakes parents. It is, after
>
> > all, our school you guys are tossing around like
> a
> > football.
>
> Honestly, this statement astounds me. You will be
> sitting there and you *will get more students and
> you *will get more resources, and you *will get
> higher scores, and you *will get fewer ESOL and
> reduced lunches in ANY scenario that will be
> presented, including magnet school potential. YOU
> will not be uprooting and moving your kids from
> the school they love and have grown up loving, and
> yet YOU claim you are being tossed about like a
> football? Sorry, but that is just ridiculous.
> The kids from Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton and
> Herndon are sitting there not knowing what is to
> become of their teammates, their best friends, the
> relationships they have cultivated with their
> teachers and you are whining because people are
> trying to come up with a solution for your kids to
> get everything you say you want without
> potentially disrupting THOUSANDS of other people
> and YOU are tossed around?


Really, you don't understand how it feels to have other people who don't even go to your school talk about what's best for your school? Really? Wow, I find that very ironic.

Magnets sound great, but my experience at Hunters Woods has shown me that there are definite downsides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 01:36PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

The Fairfax enrollment stats show 200+ special ed kids at South Lakes, Chantilly, Westfield, and 197 at Oakton. That doesn't sound like multi-school consolidation...? Is this program something different? Numbers are a bit smaller at Herndon, McLean and Langley, in the 100-150 range.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
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> The Fairfax enrollment stats show 200+ special ed
> kids at South Lakes, Chantilly, Westfield, and 197
> at Oakton. That doesn't sound like multi-school
> consolidation...? Is this program something
> different? Numbers are a bit smaller at Herndon,
> McLean and Langley, in the 100-150 range.

I just spoke with a staff person at South Lakes.

SL is a center receiving Mildly to Severely handicapped/mentally retarded students from other school districts, including Oakton and Herndon. Those schools may have Special Ed (e.g.,learning disabled, dyslexia), but do not include the types of students listed above.

If we are talking about adding a magnet at SL, which I don't really want, we will need to consider freeing up space so I think a fair compromise would be to move the center to another school in the vicinity.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 02:18PM by SLVerity.

SLVerity Wrote:
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> I think Special Ed can include kids who have
> learning disabilities, etc. Our program includes
> MMR to severely retarded and/or disabled students.
> Do the other schools have those students? I am
> sure SL pulls from other districts, since I have
> volunteered with a few kids from Oakton who are
> there and since I remember when the program was
> consolidated there.
>
> If anyone has additional information, please post
> it and correct any errors. I will also call the
> school to clarify.
>
> Regardless, if having those kids at our school
> poses an impediment to perhaps housing a magnet,
> then would any other surrounding school be willing
> to take them to free up space? I think its a fair
> question since we are all talking about
> compromise.


You are right. I know someone whose kid is autistic, and the school kid used to attend was not a good fit. However, ever since this child started attending SL, child is thriving. Parents know that child will never be college material, but will be learning a trade that will let child be a productive member of society (I neutralize gender because I don't want to put them on the spot). They told me that SL is the best thing that came along at this juncture of their lives, but I have to agree that it is not fair to house all MMRs in SL because it hurts chances of getting programs better suited for the future. ie., redistricting.

I believe that FCPS should create a specific school to address MMR issues providing training and trade ocupation to them, so it will not drain resources at the various schools. On the other hand,at one point MMRs must integrate into society, so I can also see why parents with special needs kids would want them to have a feel of normalcy. It is a very touchy subject with no definitive answers.

mssing in action Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I believe that FCPS should create a specific
> school to address MMR issues providing training
> and trade ocupation to them, so it will not drain
> resources at the various schools. On the other
> hand,at one point MMRs must integrate into
> society, so I can also see why parents with
> special needs kids would want them to have a feel
> of normalcy. It is a very touchy subject with no
> definitive answers.

Agreed. Notice I say that we like these kids and I do think that having them in our school has some positives for them and the other kids, but are we really supposed to bear the burden for other disticts, as well as for educating a larger percentage of disadvantaged kids that the County concentrated here.

SLVerity,
I'm sure someone would trade a couple MMRs for one first chair oboe, the captain of the cheerleading squad, and possibly a jewelry making elective.

I think you have a typo on your post about the percentage of SL population with MMR. It should read 99.1%, not 19.1%.

You are a football.

'panky, I congratulate you on reaching third grade level.

Spanky:

I know this is a public forum, but there is no need to be disrespectul. We all have "creative" differences and come from all walks of life. I can see both sides of the equation because we are all in this "hole" together, whether we like it or not.....And I am not part of the SL group...yet. So I am not taking sides, and it is very unfortunately that I got sick and couldn't attend yesterday's meeting..... But looking forward to meet you at any of the meetings.

More input/opinions


So you can put my comments into perspective - most of my friends/neighbors who are districted to SLHS live in NORTH RESTON and VIENNA. Many of us are NOT PART OF Reston Association. Please don't pigeon hole Reston. We are no longer even part of the Small Tax District that pays for the Reston Community Center... New housing in Reston, like that in Town Center, isn't necesssarily part of RA. All the land in Reston that is available for single family development is built out.

Comments from the breakouts -

1) At our breakout last night, everyone was calm and reasonable. Our moderator lost control so we lost the organizational clarity that would have helped us focus. We had 5-6 SL people including one student. Maybe that's why no one was nasty, they were too embarrassed to be childish in front of the child. No SL people in our group agreed with the magnet concept.

2) everyone in our group thought (duh) that Reston/Herndon kids who go to Forestville should go to Herndon and Reston. How to get that done is the big question?

3) the most clarity came from a parent NOT from SL who pointed to the Oakton boundaries on the map and said - "that's some messed up boundary! Why would some kids (Fox Mill and Crossfield) drive all the way to Oakton? They live in Herndon, not Oakton."

4) in developing scenarios, ALL of us agreed that proximity to the high school, driving distance/safety/sleep of the students was paramount. NO ONE in my group thought it was safe for teens to be driving from Herndon to Oakton at 7:00am in the morning. Sorry Fox Mill and Crossfields parents - this is what was said by Westfield, Chantilly, and Oakton parents.

5) no one wants to harm another school, ie Herndon by moving out high end RESTON students (Aldrin) without replacing them with like.

6) Madison Island is a no brainer.

7) One Oakton parent thought it was hard to have her above average kid at Oakton where they aren't in the top, by class rank.

Here's what we all agreed on:

add AP to supplement IB
Grandfather
minimize drive time/choose schools by proximity
ADD LANGLEY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 02:41PM by Old Timer.

Sounds like you were in a great group, Old Timer. I am heartened to hear it.

SLVerity:

Thanks for the comment about recruiting teachers, but the sheer logisitcs of being able to recruit that many qualified teachers cannot be underestimated. Interesting point about having a great boss. I have heard wonderful things about the principal, but if he is so wonderful, as many on this post have said, aren't we running a risk that he could be tapped for another (higher) position? There does seem to be a trend in education that when you get results, you get shifted around. I just don't feel comfortable with saying "So and so is a wonderful principal, everything will work out." It's putting too much trust in one person/one position to make sure that everything goes as planned.