It will be very easy to implement AP at SL - the IB program is way more advanced than AP. The teachers certified to teach IB can do AP with no problem.

The teachers I have talked to like what they do and will have no resistance to it.

SLVerity:

I sleep more soundly knowing that you are fighting the good fight in the wee hours.

Quantam:

You often profess to raise issues and to speak directly to truth, but -- in fact -- your posts often suggest and imply the same things that the SLHS community has heard and is responding to: the paternalistic, patronizing view that we -- parents, kids, etc -- are besieged, doomed, negligent, foolish, and burdened by our own sclerotic inertia.

It just ain't so, no matter how bluntly or impliedly that message is delivered.

A fair discussion of SLHS includes the acknowledgement that:

. The building design was awful (hence, the renovation; parents, teachers, and even the FCPS administrators recognized this, and finally have done something about it).

. Realista Rodriguez was inept and harmed the school as its principal. Hence, she was removed, albeit in a slower-than-ideal way, after a significant amount of parental and community pressure mounted (was Stu Gibson at fault in some way? I don't know).

I note that many of us weren't in awe of the previous Hughes Middle school principal and sought to get someone more inclined to do, than talk, and to integrate with SLHS. That appears to have resulted in a very positive and constructive change.

. SLHS has significant blocs of African-Americans, limited-English speaking/ESOL kids, free subsidized lunch-ers,and Special Ed kids. That's a fact and presents particular issues and -- on occasion -- challenges.

But -- and I'll do what you frequently do: talk about personal experience -- I went to a high-ranking public high school that had numerous Merit Scholars, top-university acceptances, AP/honors, great facilities.....and the same kind of issues/challenges as SLHS; and SLHS is a far more harmonious, positive, inclusive, and safe place of learning -- with comparable academic results using the same benchmarks.

You frequently talk about competition. But robust competition in the marketplace requires valid, veriable information. In this "fight", the SLHS community has been trying to provide the facts about the school and its direction, so people can make a sound decision about what the school is -- now -- based on facts. That has not been easy. So some of us will continue to state the reality as we experience and see it....that may mean that I speak very positively of SLHS, including the Principal and the faculty, whereas Thomas More speaks very positively of the SLHS kids and community, but not of the administration. But I think we agree that the core -- the kids themselves -- are as good and as capable as anywhere in NoVa.

Finally, in my profession, I have found that the most successful participants have blended solid academic work with broad/diverse life experience. They tend to be the best negotiators, the most adaptable, and quickest in getting to a final deal or result. Often, the people who have the best pedigree aren't willing to address the realities of what needs to be done, b/c it doesn't conform with what they require or expect. But life isn't like that, and the sooner that kids realize that, the better.

So, in closing, I repeat: SLHS is not a war zone or a jungle, and it does give kids wonderful opportunities to thrive academically, athletically and socially.....in a very competitive environment. I see it every day through my own kids, whom I adore and protect as zealously as anyone else out there.

See ya.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBgood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> > say that if enough interested students enrolled
> he
> > would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
>
> And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP
> classes that weren't redundant of IB classes.
> Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is
> there really anything left for an AP course?
> Isn't this promise illusory?

And did Mr. Butler have a timeline? I expect that this should accompany the promise. or could it be an open-ended promise? A full compliment of robust AP courses comparable to other AP schools in this study won't show up overnight in a box delivered by FedEx.

I think you're missing the point on the IB thing. If you don't have a real AP program, many of the good students will pupil place out of South Lakes as per county policy ... IB-leavin-now

SLHS Padre - I understand your perspective - and find it actually comforting that I moved you to write such a strident piece. It gets thing out in the open - and helps fight the right kind of fight against the various forms of dumbing down that have infected American education for the past few decades. You see, its not that schools like South Lakes have challenging students - most all schools in Fairfax do - South Lakes just has a few more - it is the means by which the schools address these problems that matters. And dumbing down the curricula, dooming the affected students with a culture of low expectations (the reason why I queried as to why a low performing principal would last), tolerating discipline issues (a scorecard which I think South Lakes is doing well on right now, by the way) and otherwise demanding less of students are all actions which: i) reflect the path of least resistance; ii) actually drive away performing students, and iii) degrade the essential fabric of a community. It also is a recipe for disaster in a knowledge based economy - period - which we will all pay for, and in fact are doing so now. The cultural problems in certain communities is by far and away the biggest cause of income disparity in this country, and they need to be faced head on.

I also concur that community feedback is that the new principal is pushing things in the right direction, so any criticism needs to be balanced.

And I find the plea as to the unfairness of it all - that is - the "real" facts not being readily understood a little unsettling. You are not victims - if the facts are wrong (and I agree that the kids are generally good kids), get them out in the marketplace- compete, make them well known, prepare for the future - be proactive - and don't make it appear that bureaucrats should make the case for you. Do you really think that people are attracted to pity, or to assertions that guys like me are mean and intolerant? If you and others have a case, make it.

Again, I find your general comments comforting - I have long taken solace in plucking the status quo. And there is no status quo with more inertia than the diversity and public education crowd. This doesn't mean your points are invalid - many of them are valid - but again, it is comforting to see such a strident reaction, because when the next issue arises with a question as to "Why are we tolerating this?", it might be understood in a less politically correct and far more fact laden context. Lost in all of the back and forth is a fundamental point - a work ethic counts - it really counts - more than anything else in education, and we should demand it of everyone.

And I don't think you are entirely correct about defining success. I agree in a number of organizations that those can get along with others in a broader sense do well - but that is if viewed from the perspective of those seeking to be a CEO or head administrator and the like. But in many fields, whether it be medicine, law, or entertainment or athletics (including the Olympic athletes I have competed against), they tend to be far from balanced and are exceedingly single minded and insanely competitive and indeed lack the tolerance which you aver is necessary for "success". By your definition these types are not successes, which is not the case, and when it comes to the individual level, what counts is being happy and that is impossible to measure without really knowing that individual. But such is the problem with statements borne from personal attacks, because they stray from any recognized source of data or empirical analysis and lack a definitional context.

Cheers

From Notre Dame Prep (Mi) -- Notre Dame Preparatory School has received recognition as one of the best 50 Catholic secondary schools in the United States (2005 & 2007).

International Baccalaureate program and AP. Can they live in the same house?
Submitted by lolszamowski on Wed, 10/17/2007 - 10:36.

As an AP teacher, I have been blessed with substantive content and students eager to accept the academic challenge. But, I have found myself recently reaching beyond the scope of daily lessons, and integrating course content which allows the students to recognize themselves as world citizens. Elevating the Notre Dame Prep students' academic capabilities has never been an issue; adjusting their perspective of their place in this world has.

The International Baccalaureate Programme, in its purest form, allows students the depth and breath of our current academic programs with the added recognition of an international perspective.

I have visited schools, both private and public, and witnessed first-hand the co-existence of Advanced Placement programs and IB programs. I have spoken to teachers, students, parents, and college educators who all proclaim the enormous benefits of the well-rounded IB Diploma student. Because we are a school which runs an academically challenging program, including AP and Honors classes, IB will allow our students to be academically rich as well as citizens of the world community.

I'm proud to be part of the Advanced Placement program. It's been quite an honor to travel each spring to the annual AP reading where hundreds of high school and college educators meet to evaluate the students' achievements. These successful courses, which will continue to run at NDP, help to define our school as an academic institution. Yet, watching our school move beyond the traditional into the broader scope of international education makes me proud to be a member of this school community.

Sharon Derico

Thanks, but still you imply that we are and have been inert and seeking pity. F--- that! We don't want or seek pity. Indeed, we just want to have all the facts out and to "balance" the criticism. I am not passive, and I don't like it when people slime anyone -- intentionally or otherwise -- by reference to things that are not so.

On your final point, I also have seen numerous highly-motivated, single-minded focused, "insanely-competitive" people, and I often do consider them to be impressively successful. Don't suggest that I don't value ability or those who strive to succeed. I am quite far from a socialist or Marxist, I assure you, and I agree that the world needs people who do it alone or in a small universe -- scientists, MDs, artist, or athletes.

My point is that many people who operate only in the elite institutions -- without a dose of real life experience -- falter or are stymied when confronted by common, every-day problems and issues, including people who are different from them. The type of person you identify often will -- by sheer will or ability - address the issue successfully and proceed.....but there are many who don't do well, b/c they can't function once they get out of a cocoon.

farmer brown Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We
> will settle with the poor teaching and low SAT
> scores at Oakton. Leave us alone.

Did you read what you posted or do you really believe this? Because we would rather be in Oakton "with poor teaching and low SAT scores" than the alternative?

For those who really want to LEARN about IB -
For the record - IB was implemented at George Mason over 25 years ago.

Their population (from the internet, not validated) are
76% white
11% asian/pacific islander
8% hispanic
4% black

SAT scores -
Math 2006 577 2007 587
Critical reading 2006 568 2007 586
Writing 2006 564 2007 564

Here is an article from the Falls Church Free Press about the anniversary of the program. http://www.fcnp.com/539/ib.htm


From the article -

"Early on, though a number of students took IB classes very few actually attempted to proceed to achieve an IB diploma. After two years, only one student, Joshua Scharff, had taken all the required courses necessary to receive his IB diploma.

A main limiting factor was the narrow range of IB courses being taught at Mason. In order to get an IB diploma a student must complete three higher level courses, consisting of two complete years worth of study, and three lower level courses, a single year for each course. In the early days of IB at George Mason only six subjects were being taught in IB, so unless those specific six subjects all appealed to a student, it was impossible to earn an IB diploma.

Over the years the school has added to its course selection. Now it offers over 40 different IB courses, including computer science, business, and the arts.

Snee said that it wasn’t until the second half of the 1980s that the IB program at George Mason would hit its stride. By that time Snee had become the IB coordinator for George Mason and started adding more classes.

They had also, by that time, begun offering the classes to the general school population, rather than specifically to the top students, something that would prove invaluable for quality of education in the school.

Snee said that even from the start he noticed that as he began teaching IB courses, it affected every class he taught, whether IB or standard. Since IB can only be taken in the junior and senior years, he was teaching all his first and second year classes preparing them for the IB program, whether they actually planned to take the elevated level or not.

And it wasn’t just about pushing the students harder. It was about changing the focus of the courses. As a Spanish teacher, Snee said, IB required that he teach not only the language but also the literature, culture and history of the countries that spoke those languages.

As a result he discovered that more and more he had to teach not only about the words but about the world that created those words.

This new way of teaching ultimately transferred to all his classes, not just his IB courses. He said that the same was true for the teachers in other subject areas, such as English, history and science.

“It really was an example of a rising tide lifting all ships,” Snee said."

For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with good teachers when compared with others in the county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com, schooldigger.com.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site
> SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com,
> schooldigger.com.

Just pointing out that your scores have taken a significant dip in the last two years. Perhaps Oakton is not infallible.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county. Don't believe it check out FCPS web site
> SAT/SOL/Safety & Security, greatschools.com,
> schooldigger.com.

I did not say otherwise; it was the Oakton parent :) I just called them on it.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBgood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I was at that meeting with Bruce - he did
> > say that if enough interested students enrolled
> he
> > would add AP courses to the SL curriculum.
>
> And you heard him also say that he'd only add AP
> classes that weren't redundant of IB classes.
> Given the breadth of the IB course offerings, is
> there really anything left for an AP course?
> Isn't this promise illusory?


Were you at the meeting - No you weren't - your additional comments have no value.

Thomas,
Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of facts and being a politico. If he says they will offer AP with the redistricted students, then you need to take him at his word and start negotiating, not undercut him. Really, I think your campaign to be rid of him is not going to fly, given his popularity. Whatever wrongs you think he did come across as petty and whining. He is much better than what came before, and he has a lot to overcome, so give him a break.

Thomas,
Also, the word from Stu is that there is affordable housing south of the toll road and free lunch students come from there. I'm awaiting more details.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, Oakton is a high rated school with
> good teachers when compared with others in the
> county.

We have all seen the ratings, we know.

But what does that mean? Why is Oakton a highly rated school? Because Oakton parents are so much more involved in their children's live, Oakton has better teachers, they care more about education than Reston parents, they volunteer in the school, they "market" the school better, Reston is a failed social experiment, blah, blah, blah?

Is that truly what you believe? Have you ever thought deeply about this - really? Have you ever looked at the socio-economics of TJ, Langley, Woodson, Madison, Oakton? It is purely a balance of socio-economics!

There is a direct correlation between test scores and family income! Add more families with higher income to SLHS to balance out the underclass, and the test scores rise.

This has been studied ad nauseum - great teachers, smaller classes, excellent leadership, all of these are window dressing. Socio-economics are the foundation.

IBgood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

He made the same statement at the PTA mtg with the additional caveat about no redundant courses. Others on this blog were at the PTA meeting and heard both halves of the statement. Ignore it if you want but next time you see him ask Bruce what AP classes he had in mind.

More Later

A better ranking would take into consideration the free/reduced lunch population and normalize test scores.

Just like the Challenge Index - it now has more validity since Jay Matthews has factored in the results of those who actually took the IB and AP tests. Previously it was just the number of students who took AP/IB versus the total population. Some schools pushed more students into the programs without a measure of the actual teaching that was taking place.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of
> facts and being a politico.

He's very politically savy. How do you think he got that award from the central office for "best first year principal." I give him far more credit than that.

> If he says they will
> offer AP with the redistricted students, then you
> need to take him at his word and start
> negotiating, not undercut him.

Why?

> Really, I think
> your campaign to be rid of him is not going to
> fly, given his popularity.

Do you think he's popular with the parents of the sophomore who's being overloaded by a tyrant of an IB English teacher of whom I reported yesterday on this blog. Do you think his complete dismissal of their concerns is going to help the popularity of IB.

Do you think he's popular with the family of the boy in the wheelchair who couldn't get a bus with a wheel chair lift for a ten days because Arrington ignored them and Bruce's voicemail box was full. Why is Arrignton still at SL? Where did Dave Dalton go?

Do you think he's popular with the parents of the BSR student whose concerns about their child not getting the help she needed to overcome her reading problems were dismissed by his claiming that BSR is "a glorified study hall."

It's whining and complaining when it's not your child.

Get back to me when you need his help and he blows you off.

> He
> is much better than what came before, and he has a
> lot to overcome, so give him a break.

I acknowledge he's better than Railly but a lamppost would fill that bill because the abuse would stop.

More Later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 01:23PM by Thomas More.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Also, the word from Stu is that there is
> affordable housing south of the toll road and free
> lunch students come from there. I'm awaiting more
> details.

I look forward to those details also. Hopefully you'll be able to share them before the first town mtg.

More Later

let's get to the point:

STU MUST GO so should SMITH we need to vote these two loooosers out. Get some new blood in there that cares about us the families that live and stay in the community. You can't spell STUPID without stu

Anyone,

How do we find the course selections for South Lakes?

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone,
>
> How do we find the course selections for South
> Lakes?

I'm looking for the course catalogue they gave to the students last year to sign up for this year's courses. It's in the house somewhere.

The only problem is that there are courses listed that weren't offered. I specifically remember economics was listed but not really offered.

More Later

a good way to judge a school is how many who can go do go---FCPS has pupil placement numbers by school and reason on it's website for this year. Then if you got the special ed numbers plus TJ plus private school I think the desirability of a school could be seen. With some more leave than pupil place. When they were bussing all the South County kids to Hayfield a lot were in private school and I think they forgot to add in the GTC kids in middle school

FCPS better get it's act together and get real numbers or they could actually verload South Lakes. No matter what Butler is a better principal than found at some schools...big problem in FCPS human resources with not firing people.

truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> let's get to the point:
>
> STU MUST GO so should SMITH we need to vote
> these two loooosers out. Get some new blood in
> there that cares about us the families that live
> and stay in the community. You can't spell
> STUPID without stu


Why specifically? Because they want to redistrict your school or do you have a specific example of why they are losers?

Over the last few years, in the Hunter Mill district, I have seen -

Elementary school - totally renovated, smart board in every classroom, addition of full day kindergarten
Middle school - renovation, new principal
High School - new principal, renovation, rising SAT scores while others are on decline

It would take a lot more than a measly $12,000/year for me to take on the job of school board rep. in this county.

Reports from Robinson IB parents:

The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman orientation and class registration at Tech was in late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test grades yet. The kid had to take the regular freshman classes.

In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given up on the IB diploma because they are being crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have to take freshman history in senior year. So many seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program this year that Robinson had to create a freshman history class populated entirely by seniors.

If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can have the families post on this blog.

"I don't write the news, I just report it."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 03:57PM by Thomas More.

Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Elementary school - totally renovated, smart board
> in every classroom, addition of full day
> kindergarten
> Middle school - renovation, new principal
> High School - new principal, renovation, rising
> SAT scores while others are on decline
>
> Many of the smart boards you see in every classroom are there courtesy of huge fundraising efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school board members

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me the money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> board
> > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > kindergarten
> > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > High School - new principal, renovation, rising
> > SAT scores while others are on decline
> >
> > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> classroom are there courtesy of huge fundraising
> efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school board
> members

Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came from renovation money and school's technology designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok, both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).

Happy Halloween to all...
Attachments:

How about while under the mismanagement of STUpid Gibson we've been subject to 5 boundary changes in 9 years? How about that he doesn't give a crap about our community and continues to subject us to these stressful boundary meetings every 2 years? How about that he never responds to emails? How about under his "leadership" the Hunter Mill district is the worst performing in Fairfax County?

Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >
> > > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> > board
> > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > kindergarten
> > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> rising
> > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > >
> > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> fundraising
> > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> board
> > members
>
> Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came
> from renovation money and school's technology
> designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok,
> both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).

That is not true for all schools. I am well aware of how certain schools earned their money to purchase smart boards and it was neither of the sources you attribute.

Time to Change the Guards Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about while under the mismanagement of STUpid
> Gibson we've been subject to 5 boundary changes in
> 9 years? How about that he doesn't give a crap
> about our community and continues to subject us to
> these stressful boundary meetings every 2 years?
> How about that he never responds to emails? How
> about under his "leadership" the Hunter Mill
> district is the worst performing in Fairfax
> County?

But I like Stu's picture above, that is what he'll look like dawn Nov. 7!

After diligent research, I find that I live in the richest congressional district in the nation (the Eleventh). I also confirmed that my little corner of this district appears to have been gerrymandered so I no longer vote at the school a block from my home, but at a church a mile away. While I cannot vote for the school board members in your district, in this thread, I can vote, of course, for three of the at-large members. Your recommendations will help me. I note that the candidates are all "independent."

I found a sample ballot at http://www.vote-va.org/Ballot.aspx

And more detailed information at http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/eb/upcoming.htm#School

Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >
> > > Elementary school - totally renovated, smart
> > board
> > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > kindergarten
> > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> rising
> > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > >
> > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> fundraising
> > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> board
> > members
>
> Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These came
> from renovation money and school's technology
> designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA (ok,
> both are taxpayers, but I do know the difference).


I forgot to ask, were you onboard with where Navy Elementary's PTA funds were going?

Just found Stu's flier in my mailbox. He says he and his opponent both support boundary changes. I have no idea if Christine Arakelian ever said this, but she is still a better choice than Stu.

At least she will listen, whereas Stu has already made up his mind. Go on her website and ask her yourself - again, at least she will listen, and respond.

I am currently a junior at South Lakes High School. I am enrolled in 6 IB classes this year and have been exposed to the IB program since I entered Langston Hughes middle school. I currently have a 3.9 GPA, was a starter on the girl’s varsity soccer team, and am a member of NHS. I am on track for the IB diploma and will be testing in IB Bio SL this spring. (oh and the IB compared to AP argument-http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1568480-1,00.html)I went to Aldrin Elementary School for two years until I was moved into Forest Edge Elementary. I don’t think I will ever make another decision that I’ll be as happy about. Forest Edge was a much much more diverse school than Aldrin. The atmosphere was much more inclusive. When I hear people talk about the diversity at SL like it is a bad thing I can’t help but be offended. I am black and to think that when people quote the percentage of black students at SLHS like it brings down the school is hurtful. I actually moved into the SLHS district after eighth grade so that I could get an IB diploma. I am completely satisfied with my choice and wish that people wouldn’t talk about SLHS as much as they do. It’s sorta ruining my school year…

Madison,
Congratulations to you! You are the reason South Lakes parents have so many good things to say about being inclusive. Listen to the people who actually know something about the school, us, not those who have probably never even been there.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison,
> Congratulations to you! You are the reason South
> Lakes parents have so many good things to say
> about being inclusive. Listen to the people who
> actually know something about the school, us, not
> those who have probably never even been there.


And hopefully for my kids NEVER have to be there!!

VOTER, are you serious? You are a self-absorbed idiot.

How would sending only Floris and McNair to SLHS not create an attendance island? Isn't Foxmill in the middle there? If not an island, it would be a very strange looking peninsula. I just can't see SLHS wanting both Dogwood and McNair, the two schools that have not met the NCLB benchmarks. Seems like sending those two schools to different high schools is the type of social engineering that non-degreed engineers would do best. Isn't the point to change (read "improve") the socio-economic balance of South Lakes? Not sure how throwing McNair in the mix would do that for SLHS.

I think that this forum is the basis for a bunch of cookie-cutting parents from FFX County who refuse to submit their children to diversity and growth through experience; your children will grow up just like you; close-minded and ignorant; I am a graduate from South Lakes, and a current Audio/Film major at the number one film school in the country, and I attribute all of my success to South Lakes; a school that constantly included a strong academic curriculum giving the children who want to succeed the oportunity to.
After studying abroad for a half year in Europe, I learned among peers who didn't even speak English. But they inspired me beyond words, simply by the infusion of culture; this perpetual idea that cultural barriers cannot be broken is offensive, and I really sympathize for the children of the parents who want to keep their kids in cookie cutter worl.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Elementary school - totally renovated,
> smart
> > > board
> > > > in every classroom, addition of full day
> > > > kindergarten
> > > > Middle school - renovation, new principal
> > > > High School - new principal, renovation,
> > rising
> > > > SAT scores while others are on decline
> > > >
> > > > Many of the smart boards you see in every
> > > classroom are there courtesy of huge
> > fundraising
> > > efforts by PTA(s), not the county or school
> > board
> > > members
> >
> > Am well aware of where PTA funds go. These
> came
> > from renovation money and school's technology
> > designation courtesy FFX taxpayers - not PTA
> (ok,
> > both are taxpayers, but I do know the
> difference).
>
>
> I forgot to ask, were you onboard with where Navy
> Elementary's PTA funds were going?


Cricket, please, try to follow the thread. I said in the beginning that I was in Hunter Mill District. We have a PTA and audit our books every year. Navy is in Sully and has a PTO...

OUR SMART BOARDS WERE NOT PAID FOR BY THE PTA!

Show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Cricket, please, try to follow the thread. I said
> in the beginning that I was in Hunter Mill
> District. We have a PTA and audit our books every
> year. Navy is in Sully and has a PTO...
>
> OUR SMART BOARDS WERE NOT PAID FOR BY THE PTA!

Been followin' the thread for quite some time now. I diverge no more than you. I was just tagging on to something you contributed---Your list of stuff, almost worded like Stu Gibson accomplishments. I am glad you live in the Hunter Mill District. So do I. You might be surprised that there is more than one school in the Hunter Mill District. I can tell you that the SMART BOARDS AT OUR SCHOOL WERE PAID FOR BY THE PTA!

You didn't specify what PTA funds you were so well award of, so I figured it must be everyone's. Guess not. Yeah, Navy is now a PTO, since Ms. Mattfield took the money and ran. I am glad that you are keeping track of someone's funds, though. Thanks

Madison's post and Thomas More's post tend to support my views about IB. Madison is clearly an excellent student (kudos in order) with the skills and the motivation and focus to see the very rigorous and challenging program through to completion. My guess is in terms of critical thinking, a different skill than pure knowledge, someone of Madison's caliber might think the IB program more beneficial than the AP program and be very glad she made that choice. But seriously, with all due respect to all students, how many Madisons are out there? A measurable number, but not likely a critical mass. This is meant as a completely appropriate compliment to Madison and those like her, but implicit in the statement is a recognition that not many fit that profile. I wish more would - but such is the reality of the situation.

Which brings me back to Thomas More's post - in which he describes the experience of Robinson parents with IB and Virginia Tech - Virginia Tech being an incredibly significant benchmark to Robinson, Oakton, Madison, etc., students - there is no greater single source of middle class intellectual capital in Northern Virginia than that supplied by Virginia Tech (and no slight to Virginia's other great universities - merely a nod to Tech's incredible popularity and demonstrated skill in providing technically oriented education). Those prospective Tech kids are the Fairfax County Schools significant bloc of of "customers". Yes, all kids matter, but these kids and their families are just the middle class backbone that people want on teams and in school. And meeting their needs is vitally important. A great many kids succeed at Tech - with having taken 3 or 4 AP courses in high school in skill areas that they do well in - and having taken a number of non-AP courses as well - appropriate to their skill level and study and work habits - to keep their grades up and life manageable. And the 3 or 4 AP courses are important - because the credits that one can obtain really give the students a leg up at a place like Tech - and not just in terms of raw credit either - the higher standing one has at the school - the easier it is to get classes - no trivial thing at a school like Tech - and in fact unavailability of classes is a common reason finishing in more than four years is a reality. So again, although it is one component of what would make a school transfer work, it really would make sense for the school to pay close attention to meeting this demand. And it is absurd to think that pointing this out is in any way sliming South Lakes - if the needs of their population will change materially, react appropriately. And while in theory the programs can co-exist, qualified and effective teachers are a limited resource, and likely some tough decisions will need to be made.

or your kids can man-up and do the work like south lakes kids have been doing for years.

Madison - You certainly have your act together and will go far in life. I'm sure your parents, teachers and coaches are very proud of you. The link you posted about IB had a typo. Here is the correct link http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1568480-1,00.html

You are right. There is a lot of barbs being thrown... from both sides. Interspersed there are some interesting, relevant posts. Just ignore the trash, you will encounter this throughout your life.

- But then again, I'm just a cookie-cutting parent that refuses to submit my kids to diversity, desparately needing to tell my kids to man-up... so what do I know

McNair and South Lakes share a common boundary,no island would be formed by moving McNair,or McNair + Floris. Moving just Floris would create an island.

McNair + Floris won't both fit at South Lakes, its too many kids (all of Westfield district north of route 50).

Some of McNair already goes to Herndon, the part north of the toll road, it's believed to include the majority of underperforming students, though that's just conjecture based on housing stock differential on the two sides of the toll road. So the part that would move isn't necessarily as bad as Dogwood.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > Bruce Butler is not known for his avoidance of
> > facts and being a politico.
>
> He's very politically savy. How do you think he
> got that award from the central office for "best
> first year principal." I give him far more credit
> than that.


He got that award because I and some other parents nominated him and wrote persuasively about positive changes that he implemented.

>
> > If he says they will
> > offer AP with the redistricted students, then
> you
> > need to take him at his word and start
> > negotiating, not undercut him.
>
> Why?

He hasn't let us down yet.
>
> > Really, I think
> > your campaign to be rid of him is not going to
> > fly, given his popularity.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the parents of the
> sophomore who's being overloaded by a tyrant of an
> IB English teacher of whom I reported yesterday on
> this blog. Do you think his complete dismissal of
> their concerns is going to help the popularity of
> IB.

One lone complainer, and we only have one side of the story.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the family of the
> boy in the wheelchair who couldn't get a bus with
> a wheel chair lift for a ten days because
> Arrington ignored them and Bruce's voicemail box
> was full.

See above. Why is Arrignton still at SL? Where
> did Dave Dalton go?

Dave Dalton retired after many years of service in the County. It has been planned for several years. Frankly, though he was excellent in years past, for the last two he was nothing but a placeholder.
>
> Do you think he's popular with the parents of the
> BSR student whose concerns about their child not
> getting the help she needed to overcome her
> reading problems were dismissed by his claiming
> that BSR is "a glorified study hall."

See above.
>
> > He
> > is much better than what came before, and he has
> a
> > lot to overcome, so give him a break.
>
> I acknowledge he's better than Railly but a
> lamppost would fill that bill because the abuse
> would stop.

Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet with Bruce in private, air your concerns and complaints, and see what he has to say. I have never known him to be anything but judicious and fair. Airing them here without having approached him directly is not productive.

I had an interesting talk with Kathy Smith yesterday (by phone), it convinced me to vote for her opponent in the election. She came across as completely clueless regarding this whole process. "Nothing has been decided, we need input from the community, but I do hear from people in Westfield and Chantilly that those schools have too many students". I pressed her on using input to make recommended changes, and she admitted that almost nobody will willingly choose to change their school boundary, but then wouldn't draw the conclusion that any changes would be driven by the board. Her logic was there could be a few parents that would be in favor of certain changes. Minority rules, as long as it matches what the board wants to happen.

She claimed that nothing had been decided, which may be true, but I said that there must be high likelihood scenarios or they wouldn't know what schools to include in the study. I asked her about Westfield e.g. At first she wouldn't give a target enrollment, but then suggested it might be (say) 2600. I said "OK, you could do that my moving McNair", and she basically said "Huh? What's McNair?" I was floored....I was like "one of the half dozen feeder elementary schools to Westfield, and one of the few NCLB at risk schools...you must know about it?". She was all "Well that's Stu's school, I don't know anything about it." Imbecile, or more likely, liar. She said that they wouldn't likely be moving whole elemmentary school areas, though the FAW on the web site says that is the preferred way to do this type of change. And she followed along that you can't change the south or west border or westfield, and the east borde is chantilly, so you have to do something with the north, i.e. McNair...sigh.

Vote Litzenberger, he has an impressive resume and has done a lot for the schools.

Thomas More Wrote:
Hopefully
> you'll be able to share them before the first town
> mtg.

Have you volunteered to attend the meeting. Lots of parents from elementary schools in our pyramid will be there.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reports from Robinson IB parents:
>
> The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits
> for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> orientation and class registration at Tech was in
> late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> freshman classes.
>
> In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given
> up on the IB diploma because they are being
> crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if
> you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have
> to take freshman history in senior year. So many
> seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> this year that Robinson had to create a freshman
> history class populated entirely by seniors.
>
> If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can
> have the families post on this blog.
>
> "I don't write the news, I just report it."

Are we to believe that students weren't adding/dropping/changing classes and rearranging schedules after fall term started? Just because pre-registration is in July does not mean that those course schedules are static. That is just not the way the university world works.

Madison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am currently a junior at South Lakes High
> School.

Madison, you do South Lakes and our community proud. Keep up the good work and good luck on your IB exams. I am sure you will reach your goals. My kids loved SL too and also thought it was a very kind and inclusive environment. Please don't listen to the negative comments on this site. Concentrate on your schoolwork and having a great junior year.

VOTER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And hopefully for my kids NEVER have to be there!!

Voter, it's really sad when a high school junior is more adult than a parent.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 11:47PM by SLVerity.

SL Padre: I worked peacefully today knowing you were fighting the good fight.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison's post and Thomas More's post tend to
> support my views about IB. Madison is clearly an
> excellent student (kudos in order) with the skills
> and the motivation and focus to see the very
> rigorous and challenging program through to
> completion. My guess is in terms of critical
> thinking, a different skill than pure knowledge,
> someone of Madison's caliber might think the IB
> program more beneficial than the AP program and be
> very glad she made that choice. But seriously,
> with all due respect to all students, how many
> Madisons are out there? A measurable number, but
> not likely a critical mass. This is meant as a
> completely appropriate compliment to Madison and
> those like her, but implicit in the statement is a
> recognition that not many fit that profile. I
> wish more would - but such is the reality of the
> situation.
>
> Which brings me back to Thomas More's post - in
> which he describes the experience of Robinson
> parents with IB and Virginia Tech - Virginia Tech
> being an incredibly significant benchmark to
> Robinson, Oakton, Madison, etc., students - there
> is no greater single source of middle class
> intellectual capital in Northern Virginia than
> that supplied by Virginia Tech (and no slight to
> Virginia's other great universities - merely a nod
> to Tech's incredible popularity and demonstrated
> skill in providing technically oriented
> education). Those prospective Tech kids are the
> Fairfax County Schools significant bloc of of
> "customers". Yes, all kids matter, but these kids
> and their families are just the middle class
> backbone that people want on teams and in school.
> And meeting their needs is vitally important. A
> great many kids succeed at Tech - with having
> taken 3 or 4 AP courses in high school in skill
> areas that they do well in - and having taken a
> number of non-AP courses as well - appropriate to
> their skill level and study and work habits - to
> keep their grades up and life manageable. And the
> 3 or 4 AP courses are important - because the
> credits that one can obtain really give the
> students a leg up at a place like Tech - and not
> just in terms of raw credit either - the higher
> standing one has at the school - the easier it is
> to get classes - no trivial thing at a school like
> Tech - and in fact unavailability of classes is a
> common reason finishing in more than four years is
> a reality. So again, although it is one component
> of what would make a school transfer work, it
> really would make sense for the school to pay
> close attention to meeting this demand. And it is
> absurd to think that pointing this out is in any
> way sliming South Lakes - if the needs of their
> population will change materially, react
> appropriately. And while in theory the programs
> can co-exist, qualified and effective teachers are
> a limited resource, and likely some tough
> decisions will need to be made.

Quantum, with all due respect, why do you not think that mid-level students are up to the challenges of IB? I have seen firsthand that they are. Students do not have to do the IB diploma, but can take selected IB courses, just like AP. I think they are equally prepared for college.

Sorry to hog the board, just catching up after a much-needed day away from this site. Honestly, this posting can become addictive! Good night to all.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One lone complainer, and we only have one side of
> the story.

No, that would be three families and nine people who went to Bruce and were blown off.

> Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet with
> Bruce in private, air your concerns and
> complaints, and see what he has to say. I have
> never known him to be anything but judicious and
> fair. Airing them here without having approached
> him directly is not productive.

Those three families tried that approach and got no where.

Your advice is to keep it private, don't rock the boat, don't jeopardize the redistricting. Why, so that the kids from McNair and Floris can experience the same treatment.

It's petty whining when its not your child. And your kids are out, so you won't have that fun experience of Bruce blowing you off to protect one of Realista treasures.

This is a customer service function. Studies say every happy customer talks to three people and every unhappy person talks to ten people. So those nine people have already told 90 people about their dissatisfaction with Bruce. Tough to build support for SL that way.

More Later



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 04:07AM by Thomas More.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> Hopefully
> > you'll be able to share them before the first
> town
> > mtg.
>
> Have you volunteered to attend the meeting. Lots
> of parents from elementary schools in our pyramid
> will be there.

Given my posts I'm not sure you'd want me there.

More Later

hahahaha "realista's treasures" that a hilarious image. thomas i may not agree with you on everything but you really do have a way with words.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reports from Robinson IB parents:
> >
> > The kids who didn't get advanced placement
> credits
> > for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> > orientation and class registration at Tech was
> in
> > late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> > grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> > freshman classes.
>
> Are we to believe that students weren't
> adding/dropping/changing classes and rearranging
> schedules after fall term started? Just because
> pre-registration is in July does not mean that
> those course schedules are static. That is just
> not the way the university world works.

Go ask any freshman at VTech of their ability to, and the wisdom of, transferring into a higher level course in the middle of their first semester. First, the classes are already full. Second, freshman get last choice in upper level
courses. Third, the the class has already started, the kid is already behind. So IB is a good idea because college freshman get to attempt to transfer into upper level courses in the middle of their first college semester and be weeks behind in the course material. Seriously?

This continuous dismissal of people who don't agree with you and failure to acknowledge problems with programs and people you favor is just as discrediting as the SL bashers failure to acknowledge SLs strengths.

More Later

Bruce Butler may be able to introduce some AP courses, eventually, particularly in the math and sciences and AP Government. But not in time for those enrolling in 2008 and want an AP program. Those students will transfer to another school, assuming that the school system doesn't forbid transferring out of South Lakes but saying all the nearby AP schools are filled.

IB teachers cannot teach AP without certification. They would all have to agree to going to summer school to be certified to teach AP. Plus, many of them may not have the ability to teach AP Calculus, Multi Var, AP physics, AP chemistry, AP computer science, etc. It would take some effort to get the teachers hired for those classes, and certified. It would take years to get that in place.

These are the kinds of things that need to be done if any new students are going to be attracted to South Lakes. There should have been some kind of plan, BEFORE they went down this redistricting path. This whole boundary study is terribly flawed. They need to STOP it and start over. But that can only happen if Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith are defeated.

Please visit:

www.stoprd.com

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB teachers cannot teach AP without certification.
> They would all have to agree to going to summer
> school to be certified to teach AP. Plus, many of
> them may not have the ability to teach AP
> Calculus, Multi Var, AP physics, AP chemistry, AP
> computer science, etc. It would take some effort
> to get the teachers hired for those classes, and
> certified. It would take years to get that in
> place.

Some of the teachers who were at the school teaching AP before they changed to IB are still there. Why wouldn't others have the ability to teach those classes? They are obviously well versed in the subject if they are able to teach IB MMII, IB Physics, and IB Chem...?


> These are the kinds of things that need to be done
> if any new students are going to be attracted to
> South Lakes. There should have been some kind of
> plan, BEFORE they went down this redistricting
> path. This whole boundary study is terribly
> flawed. They need to STOP it and start over. But
> that can only happen if Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith
> are defeated.

I agree that the boundary study should be started over. All surrounding schools including Langley, Aldrin, and Armstrong should be looked at. I do think redistricting is necessary because the school is underenrolled, not for any other reason, but the process could move a lot smoother if the school board displayed some logical reasons for their decisions rather than what seem to be somewhat arbitrary moves.

A side note: I am a graduate of South Lakes and always wondered why Fox Mill and Crossfield, which seemed so much closer to South Lakes than to other high schools, didn't go to South Lakes. I also think that if you are looking for a cohesiveness in the South Lakes community, adding Aldrin and Armstrong would be a good move because it would unite Reston and being from Reston is a definate aspect of the South Lakes community. And one more thing...I had never even heard of McNair until reading this board, whether that be ignorance or who knows what, I don't think many other Reston kids know about it either so adding them might not be the best move.

School Board members gave themselves a raise, to $20,000 a year.

Please tell us what Stu has done in the over the last 12 years that merit his re election?

How has he helped any low performing school in his district? What has he done to stem the tide of students out of South Lakes? What has he done to help students at McNair and Dogwood to learn to read?

What has he done for any school in Vienna? Oh yeh, he approved of kicking Vienna GT kids out of Kilmer and sending them to Luther Jackson in fall of 2008. They won't go there, and their return will over crowd Thoreau. Nice, Stu. He sent Marshall Road students out of Louise Archer to Mosby Woods, despite what they wanted. Thanks again Stu. Let us know when you do something that parents actually want done. We won't hold our breath.

124C41,
I would strongly advise you to vote for Chris Braunlich and Steve Hunt. Both of them will listen to parents and communities before taking any action. Paul Costantino would also listen, but I know less about him. StopRD supports Jim Raney, but he's a nobody who would vote with the democrats who are the problem.

ibnutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the teachers who were at the school
> teaching AP before they changed to IB are still
> there.

It's been seven years since SL had IB imposed on it. Most of the AP teachers have left because of Realista or IB.

And with Butler saying no redundant classes, there will be few AP classes, even if there is follow through on this idea.

More Later

Another example of Bruce’s taking care of the dysfunctional staff.

It has long been County policy not to allow an Assistant Director of Student Activities (ADSA) to coach a sport. For example, Linda Jones served as ADSA under DSA Pat Henthorn (another Railly disaster). Jones was required to resign as girls basketball head coach before she could take the ADSA job. Bruce Butler served on the screening committee to recommend her replacement as basketball coach.

When Henthorn finally left, and Bruce gave the job to Linda, instead of appointing a full time ADSA, Butler split the job between John Ellenberger, the head football coach and special ed. English teacher and Lindsey Trout, failed soccer coach, failed basketball coach but SL grad and special ed. teacher.

Butler’s excuse was that they were both pursuing graduate degrees and neither could devote full time to the job. Ellenbarfer continues as head football coach despite the County policy against holding both jobs simultaneously and despite 5 years of losing seasons. They just lost 51-0 to Marshall? Really.

Was there no other qualified candidate who applied for the ADSA job? Or does SL just exist to maximize the well-being of the incumbent staff?

I guess the “Rules” that we and our kids sign at the start of each year don’t apply to Butler and his staff. But as Neen says FCPS schools are about taking care of the staff and not about taking care of the kids.

More Later



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 03:56AM by Thomas More.

Bureaucracies work to support those within their system. It is similar to a union. Unions are there to support their members, not the consumer of the product the union member produces. FCPS is very much a union shop. Their priority is on their members, the staff, not the students or the parents. Being a government monopoly, they don't care, they don't have to. (Apologies to the phone lady on SNL.)

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>(Apologies to the phone lady on SNL.)

It was Lilly Tomlin on Laugh-in and you're dating yourself.

Oops, you are so right. I loved that skit.

One ringy dingy, two ringy dingy..........Have I reached the party to whom I am speaking?

Thank you, Neen, for your recommendations!

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reports from Robinson IB parents:
>
> The kids who didn't get advanced placement credits
> for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> orientation and class registration at Tech was in
> late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> freshman classes.
>
> In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have given
> up on the IB diploma because they are being
> crushed under the total work load. Apparently, if
> you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you have
> to take freshman history in senior year. So many
> seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> this year that Robinson had to create a freshman
> history class populated entirely by seniors.
>
> If you don't want to believe your reporter, I can
> have the families post on this blog.
>
> "I don't write the news, I just report it."


I am an Oakton parent who is trying to be open minded about this whole thing, but the above quote really represents my concern over the AP/IB piece of the puzzle. I've heard the exact same story from a South Lakes parent whose daughter quit the IB program and had to take a history class her senior year with all freshmen. If the curriculums are that different, how can they possibly shift someone from an AP school to an IB school??

Interesting news items

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2007/oct/31/marijuana-growing-operation-nets-two-arrests/

This article is referring to the asst principal of Cub Run ES. He was selling marijuana to kids at school! Talk about self -destructive! Wow.

Oakton parent - If you are moved to South Lakes and they do not offer AP, you can pupil place your child to another school where they off it and there are open seats. Be prepared to provide your own transportation or carpool... probably with a neighbor in the same situation.

This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS and I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain that the reason the reason a senior who dropped out of the IB program has to take a freshmen course is because freshmen year that senior would have taken pre-IB World History part two. If the senior drops out of the IB program, they have to go back and take World History I. I didn’t look this up but I’m pretty sure of this.

Madison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS and
> I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain that
> the reason the reason a senior who dropped out of
> the IB program has to take a freshmen course is
> because freshmen year that senior would have taken
> pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> drops out of the IB program, they have to go back
> and take World History I. I didn’t look this up
> but I’m pretty sure of this.

Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of the situation. But the question remains, that if the curriculums between AP and IB are that different, how can it be in any student's best interest to be redistricted into one program once they've begun another? I realize that there are ways around it (pupil placement), but my point is that it seems that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops because of this. It seems to me that if they are going to force kids to change schools, they shouldn't be able to force a change that involves two schools that aren't even using the same academic curriculum. At the very least, this needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.

The full IB program doesn’t actually begin until junior year. 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th grade are part of entirely different program called IBMYP (Middle Years Program). It’s not that hard to pick up the IB program if you’ve spent time in anther school. From what I’ve heard about the redistricting I don’t think their going to try and redistrict upperclassmen. I think they understand that it would be difficult to spend half your time in one school and half in another.

Madison - shouldn't you be in school now?

I am in school. We're doing a bio lab and my group already finished. Any other questions?

you're better without the tude

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One lone complainer, and we only have one side
> of
> > the story.
>
> No, that would be three families and nine people
> who went to Bruce and were blown off.
>
> > Tom, you would do well to sit down and meet
> with
> > Bruce in private, air your concerns and
> > complaints, and see what he has to say. I have
> > never known him to be anything but judicious
> and
> > fair. Airing them here without having
> approached
> > him directly is not productive.
>
> Those three families tried that approach and got
> no where.
>
> Your advice is to keep it private, don't rock the
> boat, don't jeopardize the redistricting. Why, so
> that the kids from McNair and Floris can
> experience the same treatment.
>
> It's petty whining when its not your child. And
> your kids are out, so you won't have that fun
> experience of Bruce blowing you off to protect one
> of Realista treasures.
>
> This is a customer service function. Studies say
> every happy customer talks to three people and
> every unhappy person talks to ten people. So
> those nine people have already told 90 people
> about their dissatisfaction with Bruce. Tough to
> build support for SL that way.

Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with Bruce face to face. It sounds like you have a lot of complaintsand rather than just blowing off smoke here why not approach him directly. After all, you are one of his customers. You could also solve the 'mystery' of where he went to high school.

As far as the others go, again, we are only hearing one side of the story, which is not fair to Bruce.

No attitude intended, the "any more questions" was more for the oakton mom than you. I wanted to know if she had any more questions concerning the IB program.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reports from Robinson IB parents:
> >
> > The kids who didn't get advanced placement
> credits
> > for the IB tests were at VTech. Freshman
> > orientation and class registration at Tech was
> in
> > late July and Tech hadn't received the IB test
> > grades yet. The kid had to take the regular
> > freshman classes.
> >
> > In other Robinson IB news, Many seniors have
> given
> > up on the IB diploma because they are being
> > crushed under the total work load. Apparently,
> if
> > you drop out of the IB Diploma program, you
> have
> > to take freshman history in senior year. So
> many
> > seniors have drop out of the IB diploma program
> > this year that Robinson had to create a
> freshman
> > history class populated entirely by seniors.
> >
> > If you don't want to believe your reporter, I
> can
> > have the families post on this blog.
> >
> > "I don't write the news, I just report it."
>
>
> I am an Oakton parent who is trying to be open
> minded about this whole thing, but the above quote
> really represents my concern over the AP/IB piece
> of the puzzle. I've heard the exact same story
> from a South Lakes parent whose daughter quit the
> IB program and had to take a history class her
> senior year with all freshmen. If the curriculums
> are that different, how can they possibly shift
> someone from an AP school to an IB school??

I can tell you that my children, who are at UVa, received credits in time for summer registration and had no trouble at all with the process.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS
> and
> > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain
> that
> > the reason the reason a senior who dropped out
> of
> > the IB program has to take a freshmen course is
> > because freshmen year that senior would have
> taken
> > pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> > drops out of the IB program, they have to go
> back
> > and take World History I. I didn’t look this
> up
> > but I’m pretty sure of this.
>
> Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of the
> situation. But the question remains, that if the
> curriculums between AP and IB are that different,
> how can it be in any student's best interest to be
> redistricted into one program once they've begun
> another? I realize that there are ways around it
> (pupil placement), but my point is that it seems
> that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> because of this. It seems to me that if they are
> going to force kids to change schools, they
> shouldn't be able to force a change that involves
> two schools that aren't even using the same
> academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.

I believe the board already stated that they would not move students already in high school.

Word:

You received a more polite answer than you deserved. Stick with the substance, now that you have evolved to writing more than one sentence on your pupil placement mantra.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you're better without the tude

So are you.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Madison Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to SLHS
> > and
> > > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost certain
> > that
> > > the reason the reason a senior who dropped
> out
> > of
> > > the IB program has to take a freshmen course
> is
> > > because freshmen year that senior would have
> > taken
> > > pre-IB World History part two. If the senior
> > > drops out of the IB program, they have to go
> > back
> > > and take World History I. I didn’t look this
> > up
> > > but I’m pretty sure of this.
> >
> > Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of
> the
> > situation. But the question remains, that if
> the
> > curriculums between AP and IB are that
> different,
> > how can it be in any student's best interest to
> be
> > redistricted into one program once they've
> begun
> > another? I realize that there are ways around
> it
> > (pupil placement), but my point is that it
> seems
> > that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> > because of this. It seems to me that if they
> are
> > going to force kids to change schools, they
> > shouldn't be able to force a change that
> involves
> > two schools that aren't even using the same
> > academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> > needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
>
> I believe the board already stated that they would
> not move students already in high school.

This is news to me. I have not heard that. Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will never end and the purpose of the redistricting will be defeated.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with
> Bruce face to face.

I'm fairly certain both Bruce and Stu are reading this blog. They're free to post a response.

More Later

On grandfathering:

On Herndon's PTSA FAQ:

"Will current students/families be grandfathered? Rising seniors and probably
juniors will stay at their current schools. Rising sophomores will likely stay at the
school as well; however, such a decision would be made after the boundary
changes are approved. Grandfathering policies may be different for each school."

See it for yourself at:

http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708BoundaryChanges/FAQWebDoc.pdf

Grandfathering:

It seems people may be using two definitions of grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth grade; the other is for siblings.

From what I understand, siblings will not be grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to when he said no grandfathering.

The other is grandfathering kids who already started high school. These kids would be grandfathered, from what I understand.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Madison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > This is for the Oakton parent. I go to
> SLHS
> > > and
> > > > I'm in the IB program, and I'm almost
> certain
> > > that
> > > > the reason the reason a senior who dropped
> > out
> > > of
> > > > the IB program has to take a freshmen
> course
> > is
> > > > because freshmen year that senior would
> have
> > > taken
> > > > pre-IB World History part two. If the
> senior
> > > > drops out of the IB program, they have to
> go
> > > back
> > > > and take World History I. I didn’t look
> this
> > > up
> > > > but I’m pretty sure of this.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Madison. That is my undertanding of
> > the
> > > situation. But the question remains, that if
> > the
> > > curriculums between AP and IB are that
> > different,
> > > how can it be in any student's best interest
> to
> > be
> > > redistricted into one program once they've
> > begun
> > > another? I realize that there are ways
> around
> > it
> > > (pupil placement), but my point is that it
> > seems
> > > that one shouldn't have to jump through hoops
> > > because of this. It seems to me that if they
> > are
> > > going to force kids to change schools, they
> > > shouldn't be able to force a change that
> > involves
> > > two schools that aren't even using the same
> > > academic curriculum. At the very least, this
> > > needs to be phased in with incoming freshmen.
> >
> > I believe the board already stated that they
> would
> > not move students already in high school.
>
> This is news to me. I have not heard that.
> Acutally, I have heard the opposite, that Stu
> Gibson has said that he can't guarantee ANY
> grandfathering. The issue is such a hotbed that
> he has said if they begin grandfathering, it will
> never end and the purpose of the redistricting
> will be defeated.

Sorry, I wish I could remember where I heard/read that.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On grandfathering:
>
> On Herndon's PTSA FAQ:
>
> "Will current students/families be grandfathered?
> Rising seniors and probably
> juniors will stay at their current schools. Rising
> sophomores will likely stay at the
> school as well; however, such a decision would be
> made after the boundary
> changes are approved. Grandfathering policies may
> be different for each school."
>
> See it for yourself at:
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/HerndonHS/ptsa/ptsa_act/0708Bo
> undaryChanges/FAQWebDoc.pdf


Thank you for the link. I am just struck by words such as "likely" because that seems to me to be a way of getting people to relax without actually committing to the idea of leaving anyone who has started high school where they are. Plus, I'm unclear as to the source. It appears to be Jane Strauss. I apologize for being cynical about what she or Stu say, but the fact that the town meetings were scheduled after the election makes it tough for me to trust any of the incumbents right now.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas, I was suggesting that you sit down with
> > Bruce face to face.
>
> I'm fairly certain both Bruce and Stu are reading
> this blog. They're free to post a response.

In my experience, face-to-face is always better and more satisfying in the end. Besides, you might end up liking him.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grandfathering:
>
> It seems people may be using two definitions of
> grandfathering. One is that anyone above ninth
> grade; the other is for siblings.
>
> From what I understand, siblings will not be
> grandfathered. This is what Stu was referring to
> when he said no grandfathering.
>
> The other is grandfathering kids who already
> started high school. These kids would be
> grandfathered, from what I understand.


At the candidates forum at SLHS, a Westfield's parent asked specifically about grandfathering. Stu said that would be determined "after" the boundaries had been determined. Implementation processes came after the determination of the boundaries. He said those would be subject to community input as well. He gave an example of Rachel Carson middle school - they had expected to start only 7th graders at Rachel Carson, but because of community input, let some 8th graders start as well.

Obviously this is a positive example where parents wanted to move; regardless, these were his comments.

Tom, you have a lot of good things to say but it's ok if we disagree. We are each approaching this from our own respective POVs. You are free to post yours but don't get mad if I post something that contradicts your SL world view. I will continue to present my personal experiences, which I think may be helpful to people with questions about the IB program and/or leadership at the school. Since both of my children were IB Diploma students I think I have a right to post about their experiences with the program.

In my personal experience, Bruce Butler has always been responsive to requests for assistance and provides parents a forum for a fair hearing. I have never known him to be otherwise. So I think you would benefit from meeting with him to air your concerns. That you have not done so leads me to believe that you prefer to adopt an adversarial posture in this situation.

hmmmmm07,
I agree that the school board should help people to relax by making statements about grandfathering definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think there is any reason why they would grandfather existing high schools students, especially because kids would not be able to make the switch to IB that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do this. Also, community input will make a difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.

What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we would start with ninth graders. This would also give time for AP to kick in. This is the only thing that makes sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2007 10:15AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Besides, you
> might end up liking him.

I don't dislike him. His choices are bad for the school.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer,
> I agree that the school board should help people
> to relax by making statements about grandfathering
> definitively, not wishy washy. I don't think
> there is any reason why they would grandfather
> existing high schools students, especially because
> kids would not be able to make the switch to IB
> that easily. It just wouldn't make sense to do
> this. Also, community input will make a
> difference, as in the Rachel Carson case.
>
> What I heard at the SL PTA meeting was that we
> would start with ninth graders. This would also
> give time for AP to kick in. This is the only
> thing that makes sense.


Agree with all above.

I personally will go to the meetings with the goal of providing analytical measured comments such as starting with 9th graders, ramping up to add AP classes to supplement IB, marketing the school's successes, and adding a parents' committee to the implementation process comprised of current SLHS and transferred parents where grievances/concerns could be discussed in a rational manner.

I've also thought about a process for the transferred incoming freshman to have mentors/buddies from currrent students but then realized that the students will be fine. It's the parents who need the support :)

The "hell no we won't go" attitude is not going to work. We've all heard the groups of parents/communities mobilizing to attend the meetings in community or school colors. I think if they approach this irrationally, their fears/claims will be dismissed as whining and self-serving.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Besides, you
> > might end up liking him.
>
> I don't dislike him. His choices are bad for the
> school.

Then meet with him and convince him of that. If your arguments are good, he will respond. Or perhaps you just like being against 'the man' or in the case of Reilly, 'the woman.'

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That you have not done so leads me
> to believe that you prefer to adopt an adversarial
> posture in this situation.

I've been in conversations with Bruce many times since he's come to SL. My experience is that he listens very politely and then ignores you. Your experience may be different but my experience is re-enforced by that of others like the three families I reported here.

It's also the product of 11 years of frustration and being told fundamental change must wait until the redistricting is fully implemented which won't happen, if the grandfathering is granted, until 2012 or later which is more than 16 years of dissatisfaction. At which point, my youngest will be long gone from SL.

More Later