Thomas More,
Yes, McNair is a given because of proximity to South Lakes. It's too far from Oakton to be sent there, and it's not close enough to Herndon. Fox Mill is close to South Lakes. McNair and Fox Mill. OR McNair and Aldrin/Armstong to South Lakes and Herndon gets Floris.

>>>At South Lakes only 10% of the students passed the IB exam with a 4 or higher"?<<<

I did the math. 10% of the students at South Lakes scored barely passing on at least one IB test. I don't consider that impressive.

When will we know the number of IB diplomas at South Lakes this year, 2007? Not candidates, but those who actually got the diploma?

>>>the county chose to implement IB at only one high school in the western part of the county (it was a budgetary consideration). Some of the schools you mention did lobby to have it considered, but the decision had already been made by the Area III Supervisor Loretta Webb, to implement it at South Lakes.<<<

Oh Please, have you heard any of the AP schools lobbying the school board for IB? Do you think if Langley wanted IB they wouldn't have it by now? If Madison wanted IB Stu wouldn't let them have it? The top schools don't want it! The other schools got stuck with it. It's not a terrible program, it's just not one that most parents of college bound students want. They just might know something.

It doesn't really matter, South Lakes has it. The other schools don't.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Yes, McNair is a given because of proximity to
> South Lakes. It's too far from Oakton to be sent
> there, and it's not close enough to Herndon. Fox
> Mill is close to South Lakes. McNair and Fox
> Mill. OR McNair and Aldrin/Armstong to South
> Lakes and Herndon gets Floris.

McNair abuts the Herdon H.S. attendance area and is physically closer to HHS than SL.

Gibson has committed to Aldrin & Armstrong not to redistrict them to SL.

More Later

Thomas More,
What makes you think that Stu will honor a promise made 4 years ago? Can't he say that things have changed, projections were wrong (as they always are), yada, yada, yada. This year, Stu has refused tell Herndon parents that Aldrin and Armstong will not be moved.

Let's do the math, with the goal of reducing crowding at Westfield and placing 800 additional kids at SL. I used current enrollment at these schools, divided by 7 for how many students in each grade, then multiplied by 4 for the total number who would be in 4 high school grades at one time. A round about method, but it works.
McNair=520 in high school
Fox Mill=400
Aldrin=310
Armstrong=260
Crossfield=440
Floris=560
Navy=480
Madison Island==30 (at most since most of these kids won't go to South Lakes)


McNair is closest to South Lakes, so it goes, that's 500 students. Adding Floris, or Crossfield, or Fox Mill or Navy, adds too many students. Add Aldrin or Armstong to South Lakes, along with McNair, and the island, and the total to South Lakes is very close to 800. That's exactly how many students are needed to fill South Lakes. We can assume that most of the island won't go, and quite a few from Aldrin and Armstrong, but it should still be close to 700 to South Lakes.

Four years out, Herndon will be 350 under enrolled. Add another 300 for the loss of Aldrin or Armstong, for a total of 650. Send Floris, with 560 students, and Herndon's under enrollment is fixed.

Removing McNair and Floris from Westfield brings their enrollment closer to the 2,100 students that staff now claims is the perfect number of students.

That seems to me to be the most logical thing to come out of the community meetings. The easiest thing for Stu is to move Floris and McNair into South Lakes since they are both in his district. But that would put over 1,000 new students into South Lakes, presumably too many.

Of course we all know that the new projected enrollments, that won't be unveiled until after the election, will show South Lakes continuing to be very under enrolled, with Westfield and possibly Chantilly over enrolled. The numbers will show whatever they want them to show, whatever supports their planned agenda.

McNair has to go somewhere, if there is a goal to reduce crowding at Westfield. Since it's closest to South Lakes, that's where the community meetings will send it. Some people in Reston are foolish enough to believe that McNair will be sent to Oakton, 13 miles away, rather than South Lakes, 5 miles away. These same people believe that Stu will get Fox Mill and Crossfield into South Lakes and send McNair to Oakton. They're dreaming, if not delusional. There is no way the communities are going to agree to that. It makes no sense to have McNair hop over South Lakes to go all the way to Oakton. It also makes little sense to do a bunch of dominoes and upset even more communities.

OR, we could face the fact that none of these schools is seriously over enrolled and there is no reason for anyone to have to be forced to go to South Lakes. We can then vote for Arakelian against Stu and go back to the drawing boards.

Thomas More,
Has Stu Gibson said that Armstrong and Aldrin won't go to South Lakes THIS YEAR? If he hasn't said since 2003, we can assume that bet is off, just as the Herndon PTA is assuming.

Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes district? If McNair goes to Herndon, what schools do they get to balance those demographics? Or does Herndon just become the new South Lakes? McNair will go to SL, along with some other school with higher demographics.

According to mapquest, McNair is 4.92 miles from Herndon high and 5.48 miles from South Lakes. Not much difference. I'm betting that Janie Straus won't allow McNair to go to Herndon. It will go to South Lakes along with some other school to balance demographics. Except that one other school won't be enough to balance the demographics.

There is no way that Oakton will lose BOTH Foxmill and Crossfield, that would take 840 students from Oakton, way too many.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield
> to
> > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going
> to
> > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> that
> > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
>
> Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area,
> it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees
> Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> elementary schools do you have in mind?


FYI...what makes everyone think the former Navy ES kids are so anxious to leave Chantilly for Oakton? Not everyone thinks Oakton is the place to be, why should we be shuffled to a high school further away from the one we attend now, just because South Lakes is underenrolled. Leave us out of it please. We will also be attending the fcps meetings. Believe me, no one is happy. It's not just the schools that will have to attend south lakes.

The figures for Fox Mill are more like 460 students, with class size approaching 125 in the out years.

The figures for McNair are too high it's more like 450, Herndon alredy has McNair kids north of the Toll Rd.

South Lakes can hold 2100 with current enrollment at 1443, so there are about 650 seats. Subtract 30 for the Madision Island and you got 620. They're not going to fill it to capacity so subtract another 120 and you got 500 open seats. South Lakes can only pick up one ES not two.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> district?

No.

Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair

More Later

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Has Stu Gibson said that Armstrong and Aldrin
> won't go to South Lakes THIS YEAR?

That's why he kept Langley out of the boundary study. It boxes Aldrin and Armstrong in.

It's also why he wouldn't respond to the suggestion to add Forestville at the SL PTA mtg & didn't mention the 2003 promise to Aldrin & Armstrong

More Later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 08:40AM by Thomas More.

There is a way to compare pre-IB to AP. AP students take honors courses in 9th and 10th grade as a way to prepare for AP classes.

Dear Word,

Why are you so afraid of McNair? Its seems you will use any form of pretzel logic (sans critical thinking skills) to come up with the scenario that McNair should come to South Lakes.

Using critical thinking skills, a casual observer may note that McNair 'looks' at lot like South Lakes.

This is not correct...

> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair

Currently South Lakes shares a border with McNair along Sunrise Valley Drive and Monroe St.

Fox Mill does not lie between SL and McNair. Fox Mill does not border McNair. Fox Mill borders Floris on the west side.

Despite what some on this site might think, the primary reason that South Lakes attendance numbers have dropped is really because Reston has aged while surrounding areas were adding new housing. Families tend to move into new housing.

I don't understand why some on this board think that we should not have a say regarding who comes into SL? We pay taxes here, just like those in surrounding communities do. In fact, I would wager that the tax receipts in Reston are much higher than Oak Hill by virtue of the businesses located here. I note that voting patterns in Oak Hill have moved decidedly more liberal over the last few years. Which politicians advocate affordable housing? Liberal ones. If you keep electing affordable housing advocates, then please expect to bear some of the burden for hosting those needing affordable housing. If you don't bear it in your neighborhood, then perhaps your schools are a good place to do so.

Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using Neen's and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area also borders S. Lakes and is much closer distance-wise to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes through the county, so making it a little longer wouldn't really change anything.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a way to compare pre-IB to AP. AP
> students take honors courses in 9th and 10th grade
> as a way to prepare for AP classes.

Are those numbers available?

More Later

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using Neen's
> and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area also
> borders S. Lakes and is much closer distance-wise
> to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes
> through the county, so making it a little longer
> wouldn't really change anything.

Oh please, take a minute and look at the map. McNair would be an Island and they are doing away with Islands. Also, if Crossfield were removed, Fox Mill would be an Island. So there would be two Islands. You need to do a little "critical thinking" of your own.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> > Crossfield brought into South Lakes? Using
> Neen's
> > and Word'd logic Crossfield attendance area
> also
> > borders S. Lakes and is much closer
> distance-wise
> > to South Lakes. Also, Oakton's boundary snakes
> > through the county, so making it a little
> longer
> > wouldn't really change anything.
>
> Oh please, take a minute and look at the map.
> McNair would be an Island and they are doing away
> with Islands. Also, if Crossfield were removed,
> Fox Mill would be an Island. So there would be two
> Islands. You need to do a little "critical
> thinking" of your own.

Why is it that you are so afraid of staying in your neck of the woods?

Oops, meant to say McNair.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Despite what some on this site might think, the
> primary reason that South Lakes attendance numbers
> have dropped is really because Reston has aged
> while surrounding areas were adding new housing.
> Families tend to move into new housing.

Correct

> Why couldn't McNair be added to Oakton and
> Crossfield brought into South Lakes?

McNair would then be an attendance island which the School is trying to eliminate.

I believe they are trying their best to eliminate attendance islands, but I don't think that is written in stone.

I don't think this discussion is all about maps. Maps are helpful to a point, but creating a larger under-performing school is not the solution the county is working for.

If AP schools are so great, why don't schools like Oakton open their minds and arms to accepting students from McNair. After all, they are more economically disadvantaged so racking up college credits via AP would be the best solution for those families least able to provide for their children's education. I would think that the pro-AP crowd would be more than happy to do their part.
\sarcasm off

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Currently South Lakes shares a border with McNair
> along Sunrise Valley Drive and Monroe St.
>
> Fox Mill does not lie between SL and McNair. Fox
> Mill does not border McNair. Fox Mill borders
> Floris on the west side.

I sit corrected.

However, Fox Mill, which also abuts SL, has a keyhole extending into the SL attendance area and all of its attendance area is closer to SL than the bulk of McNair's.

More Later

This can be engrossing, but I have to work....Nevertheless:

Using TM's analysis on 06 Oakton's AP's scores (and applying to what he suggests to be Neen's method) in including the overall student population, then "only" 21.4% of Oakton's student body passed (scored 3+) an AP test.

This is, per your calculation, compared to "only" 19% of SLHS's overall student body who passed (scored 4 or higher) an IB exam.

Not intended to slam Oakton (60% of 11th and 12th graders take AP classes, for example...), but I note for the record that the bullet points from your analyses (TM and Neen's) spin the facts to the detriment of SLHS and the IB program.

Thank you Padre for your analysis.

Thank you, SLVerity, for stating what should be obvious, but apparently isn't.

Crossfield already sends some kids to SL--Fox Mill Woods. Herndon already has some of McNair, so it would make sense for them to take more, if they have the capacity.

Personally, I think Westfield should keep McNair for purposes of socioeconomic balance. Herndon and South Lakes already have their share of underprivileged populations. This is a stated boundary study criteria, more important than distance, within reason.

What do you make of the part of Crossfields that already attends SL and the part of Oak Hill ES that already goes to Oakton?

The map I have shows no part of McNair currently going to HHS. Hutchinson is north of the toll road.

More Later

True, SPPP. The McNair population is transient, so not moving them creates the most stability for what is a less stable school than others feeding into Westfield.

Since Oakton is so fabulous, they can certainly do without Crossfield and still perform marvelously. Crossfield students would be a great addition to the already wonderful South Lakes community. In addition, they would be much closer to school. I know many Crossfield parents who would love to eliminate the long commute and earlier wake-up times needed to get to school.

I guess the downside to all of this is that surrounding schools would no longer have South Lakes to kick around and deride.

No part of Oak Hill ES goes to Oakton.

Very few Crossfield students go to South Lakes. Crossfield attendance area cuts off Fox Mill ES from Oakton making it an island.

McNair students north of toll rd (alabama ave) go to Hernon HS.

As far as any Crossfield students that would love an easier commute...

Check out the earlier post on the Franklin Farm Survey which shows that only 3% of current Oakton HS families would like to be moved to South Lakes.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the thought is to shift kids from Westfield
> to
> > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids going
> to
> > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> that
> > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
>
> Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance area,
> it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and Lees
> Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> elementary schools do you have in mind?


Deerpark, London Towne look good to me

I thought Alabama Avenue kids went to Hutchinson and from there into Herndon.

I take it you are in the Crossfield district? What does it matter If very few Crossfield kids go to South Lakes? Right now NO McNair kids go to South Lakes.

Word, I am sorry to disappoint, but it is not all about Oakton and keeping Oakton intact. You are part of a larger school system. If you didn't want to deal with these types of issues, you should have moved to the City of Falls Church or the City of Alexandria, where there is only one High School and thus no redistricting issues at the high school level.

Don't South Lakes parents have just as much of a right to take a poll and decide where they want incoming students to come from? Why should that be dictated by Word, Neen, or Cricket?

chsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If the thought is to shift kids from
> Westfield
> > to
> > > Chantilly to fill a dominoed void of kids
> going
> > to
> > > Oakton, there are other Westfield communities
> > that
> > > are a lot closer to Chantilly than Floris.
> >
> > Since Floris abuts the Chantilly attendance
> area,
> > it being immediately west of the Oak Hill and
> Lees
> > Corner Elementary attendance areas, which other
> > elementary schools do you have in mind?
>
>
> FYI...what makes everyone think the former Navy ES
> kids are so anxious to leave Chantilly for Oakton?
> Not everyone thinks Oakton is the place to be,
> why should we be shuffled to a high school further
> away from the one we attend now, just because
> South Lakes is underenrolled. Leave us out of it
> please. We will also be attending the fcps
> meetings. Believe me, no one is happy. It's not
> just the schools that will have to attend south
> lakes.



I don't think this..(Navy is anxious to go to OHS), I just know the county tried to sneak this in during the last boundary study for the opening of Westfield. It didn't happen because too many protested.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doesn't McNair also butt up against South Lakes
> > district?
>
> No.
>
> Fox Mill lies between SL and McNair


McNair's boundary butts up against SLHS (intersection of Monroe and Fox Mill area)

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe they are trying their best to eliminate
> attendance islands, but I don't think that is
> written in stone.


Then there goes the Madison Island argument.

Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because very few students come from there. It was not South Lakes' argument to begin with.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't South Lakes parents have just as much of a
> right to take a poll and decide where they want
> incoming students to come from? Why should that
> be dictated by Word, Neen, or Cricket?


Sure you do, so why haven't you? I am not dictating anything..making suggestions just like everyone else. personally I only care about where my elementary school STAYS.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because
> very few students come from there. It was not
> South Lakes' argument to begin with.


I know, SL didn't argue for this, but your school board members did (BTW, I don't assume that SLHS parents have argued for any of this). If McNair was created as an island, Madison would throw this in Stu's and the rest's face.

Word, Cricket, and Neen: If SL had AP classes, what would your argument against moving be, or would you have one? I am just trying to find a solution that is palatable to everyone, not one that would once again shaft the middle class of South Lakes, as so many past redistricting decisions have done.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Madison Island doesn't hold much water, because
> > very few students come from there. It was not
> > South Lakes' argument to begin with.
>
>
> I know, SL didn't argue for this, but your school
> board members did (BTW, I don't assume that SLHS
> parents have argued for any of this). If McNair
> was created as an island, Madison would throw this
> in Stu's and the rest's face.

And I would say fine. I'd rather have Crossfield than MI and McNair.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No part of Oak Hill ES goes to Oakton.

Actually the map shows that a part does and my partner's kids did just that.

> McNair students north of toll rd (alabama ave) go
> to Hernon HS.

The map shows no part of McNair's attendance area north of the Toll Road and Alabama, being a long street, would go to either Herndon Elementary or Hutchison.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 11:10AM by Thomas More.

SLVerity,
I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents should be organized and have a position on these issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the leadership on this issue, but they will not, for reasons I just don't understand.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents
> should be organized and have a position on these
> issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the
> leadership on this issue, but they will not, for
> reasons I just don't understand.

AGREED!!

What is it with our PTA leadership or should I say PTA officers since I'm not seeing any leadership?

...
Attachments:

I know that the PTSA has been sending out emails (This Week at South Lakes) notifying parents about the upcoming redistricting meetings and asking parents to attend each meeting so that we will have a voice. They are also preparing a fact sheet which they will distribute prior to the first meeting, which is November 12th.

My kids are no longer in the school and I am receiving this information. If I am, surely those with students at the school must be, especially if they are registered with Keep in Touch.

Perhaps the PTSA needs folks like you step up and offer to help with the effort. They can't do it without the help of good concerned folks like you.

Thanks word that clarifies things alot.

The portion of McNair that goes to Herndon HS is the older part of its district with the loweer socio-economic group and the minority ethnic groups and ESOL population. The balance of McNair which goes to Westfields is recently constructed, upscale apartments and recently built upscale townhouses.

Why wouldn't either SL or Herndon want that?

I'd still prefer Aldrin to end the partition of Reston kids but the McNair neighborhoods south of the Toll Road shouldn't drag SL or HHS down from an s/e perspective. You'd have to see the numbers to be sure.

However, that long a commute would drag down extracurricular participation which we already have with the Polo neighborhoods west of the FFX Pkwy.

It appears that the SL PTSA is providing leadership. Link to the SL PTSA Website below. Redistricting is front and center with a link to more redistricting information. Please take the time to read it and step up. You are needed. If you can be this articulate on this forum, imagine how effective you will be in person.

http://southlakesptsa.org/

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
personally I only care about where
> my elementary school STAYS.

I may have missed it earlier but which elementary school would that be?

More Later

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks word that clarifies things alot.
>
> The portion of McNair that goes to Herndon HS is
> the older part of its district with the loweer
> socio-economic group and the minority ethnic
> groups and ESOL population. The balance of McNair
> which goes to Westfields is recently constructed,
> upscale apartments and recently built upscale
> townhouses.
>
> Why wouldn't either SL or Herndon want that?
>
> I'd still prefer Aldrin to end the partition of
> Reston kids but the McNair neighborhoods south of
> the Toll Road shouldn't drag SL or HHS down from
> an s/e perspective. You'd have to see the numbers
> to be sure.
>
> However, that long a commute would drag down
> extracurricular participation which we already
> have with the Polo neighborhoods west of the FFX
> Pkwy.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I am seeing the low-income housing in Herndon along Alabama drive going to McNair. I really don't see that as South Lakes burden to bear.

I think the SLHS PTSA (with its leadership/officers) has been taking a strong, positive role in informing interested parties, including the 10/9 Parent Forum with the School Board candidates and the 10/17 meeting's focus on redistricting, as well as providing ongoing updates and opportunities for info.

It also has encouraged parents and interested members of the community to participate in the process, including the upcoming community meetings on redistricting, while not encouraging a "Us v. Them" mentality.

It has not -- quite appropriately -- taken the role of chief advocate in a "fight", nor has it sided with, or endorsed, any candidate or point of view -- other than to talk about what SLHS really is. And I applaud them for it (i.e., "it" = modeling appropriate behaviour by adults....).

long commute... actually the go much further to get to Westfield right now

Thanks Padre, could not agree more.

Once again... mcnair north of the toll rd already goes to Herndon HS. They already bearing the burden, and no one has suggested otherwise. It is McNair south of the toll rd we're talking about. They go to Westfield.

Yes, and there are a lot of transient/apartments around the clock tower, in close proximity to the school itself.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word, Cricket, and Neen: If SL had AP classes,
> what would your argument against moving be, or
> would you have one? I am just trying to find a
> solution that is palatable to everyone, not one
> that would once again shaft the middle class of
> South Lakes, as so many past redistricting
> decisions have done.


I am not looking for you to find a solution. At this point, I don't particularily care about AP/IB (I don't think I have even had anything to say about the subject). What makes you think that AP/IB is the bulk of the argument? Many families have other concerns to consider than just keeping their kids at the top of their high school. We and most of our community don't want to move anywhere. Who is to say we are even going to SLHS? We have been the butt of too many county indecisions and poor planning efforts in the last 10 years. We would prefer to find some stability for our children. I would prefer they just find someone else to pick on. I prefer that my daughter stays at the school she is currently enrolled in. I prefer that my son joins her when the time comes. I prefer not to travel back and forth between 2 schools to meet competing needs of my children. I prefer not to join 2 PTAs and multiple booster clubs. I prefer not to pitted against neighbors and friends throughout the Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield communities. I don't expect you to have solutions for this. I am prepared to fix whatever I need to, to provide what is best for my children,if that time comes. I prefer that they just leave us alone, so that I don't have to fix anything.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> personally I only care about where
> > my elementary school STAYS.
>
> I may have missed it earlier but which elementary
> school would that be?



does it matter?

SLVerity Wrote:

> I'm not seeing what you are seeing. I am seeing
> the low-income housing in Herndon along Alabama
> drive going to McNair. I really don't see that as
> South Lakes burden to bear.

If I'm reading the maps right, and you have to look at two different attendance maps, McNair has the townhouses north of Alabama and west of the low-income housing. It also has the townhouses south of Alabama opposite the baseball field. But these kids go to HHS now, not Westfield.

Looking at McNair's demographics in the aggregate is deceiving because of the split in attendance. Some of McNairs kids go to HHS, the part north of the Toll Road. The kids south of the Toll Road from the recently built multis and towns go to Westifield. Those families would raise the demographics of either SL or HHS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 12:01PM by Thomas More.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> I totally agree with you that South Lakes parents
> should be organized and have a position on these
> issues. The South Lakes PTA should provide the
> leadership on this issue, but they will not, for
> reasons I just don't understand.


There are other PTA's that won't touch this. Probably for several reasons. too bad, though.

Cricket Wrote:
> does it matter?

Sure helps put your comments in perspective.

More Later

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the SLHS PTSA (with its
> leadership/officers) has been taking a strong,
> positive role in informing interested parties,
> including the 10/9 Parent Forum with the School
> Board candidates and the 10/17 meeting's focus on
> redistricting, as well as providing ongoing
> updates and opportunities for info.

> It has not -- quite appropriately -- taken the
> role of chief advocate in a "fight", nor has it
> sided with, or endorsed, any candidate or point of
> view -- other than to talk about what SLHS really
> is. And I applaud them for it (i.e., "it" =
> modeling appropriate behaviour by adults....).

Unlike the HHS, Aldrin, Armstong, Fox Mill, Crossfields PTAs, it has not adopted a preferred outcome to this process and is thus losing ground to the agendas of other PTAs.

They are way too passive. It's like they are dutifully waiting for Stu to tell them the outcome when he figures it all out politically.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> long commute... actually the go much further to
> get to Westfield right now

I'm not advocating for leaving them at Westfield. They need to go to either Herndon or SL.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> > does it matter?
>
> Sure helps put your comments in perspective.


I think my comments are general enough that they don't need to be tagged to a school.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, and there are a lot of transient/apartments
> around the clock tower, in close proximity to the
> school itself.

Two points

1) Multis don't generate lots of highs school aged kids, Less that one for every two units.

2) Check the rents on those places. It's definitely not low income housing.

More Later

Cricket Wrote:

> I think my comments are general enough that they
> don't need to be tagged to a school.

Then we'll be left to guess and my guess is Crossfields.

More Later

With regards to PTSA leadership, SL PTSA has also reached down into the lower schools in the pyramid to invite parents' to participate by reminding them that their children will be the most affected.

As to other PTSA's taking a position, I am not sure that the PTSA can legally do so, if I call recall from other boundary disputes. Perhaps other PTSAs are over-stepping their bounds.

It is hard to take a position when no proposals have been put on the table. I think the PTSA is being very judicious at this point.

Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious to know how poor planning has affected your community. As I've said before, South Lakes has suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are still paying the price for those today. I just don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.' Perhaps you could make me understand?

Questions -

1) Does anyone really know why Langley wasn't included in the boundary study - besides saying that current school board members are too gutless to go up against Great Falls and high end Reston parents? I can't find a single rational person who thinks it makes sense for a kid off Route 7 in RESTON or HERNDON to drive to McLean for high school. It's a bare minimum of 45 minutes to get to Langley (at current school start times).

FYI - back in the day - ALL of Great Falls west of Springvale (Forestville Elem) used to go to Herndon high school.

Moving the "untouchables" along the south side of Route 7 to Armstrong, Aldrin, or Forest Edge could be a positive socio-economic bump in the numbers of either SLHS or HHS. Then Aldrin could be moved to SLHS connecting even more of Reston to the high school. Although I would like to see both Aldrin AND Armstrong moved to SLHS, that would put Herndon in the same position that South Lakes is in now, and I agree with Armstrong parents that Herndon is closer than South Lakes. Herndon is in a precarious situation mostly holding on by Aldrin and Armstrong. No South Lakes parents want to balance SL at the expense of Herndon. But moving Reston 7 folks to Herndon could balance those lost with Aldrin. Both Aldrin and Armstrong kids go to Forest Edge (SLHS pyramid) for GT then on to Hughes for middle school. They move back to Herndon for high school or have to pupil place to continue on at South Lakes with the kids they'be been with for 6 years - what kind of screwed up logic is that?

2) Is there anyway to "change" or "amend" the study area based on the outcome of the meetings? In other words, do we live with the limitations of the study parameters and make the best of a bad situation or do we all protest loudly to include Langley?

And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all - he is only one of 12!

I've heard what he said in 2003 but rumors were flying recently that he said Aldrin/Armstrong should move.

Old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is actually from Old Timer - poor typing skills left off the "Timer."

Old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Questions -
>
> 1) Does anyone really know why Langley wasn't
> included in the boundary study - besides saying
> that current school board members are too gutless
> to go up against Great Falls and high end Reston
> parents? I can't find a single rational person
> who thinks it makes sense for a kid off Route 7 in
> RESTON or HERNDON to drive to McLean for high
> school. It's a bare minimum of 45 minutes to get
> to Langley (at current school start times).

Agreed.

> FYI - back in the day - ALL of Great Falls west of
> Springvale (Forestville Elem) used to go to
> Herndon high school.

Stu told us that at the SL PTA mtg.

> 2) Is there anyway to "change" or "amend" the
> study area based on the outcome of the meetings?
> In other words, do we live with the limitations of
> the study parameters and make the best of a bad
> situation or do we all protest loudly to include
> Langley?

Stu is adamant that the School Board regs don't allow it but if you read the regs it is not as clear as Stu would have you believe. Another reason to believe that he will follow his 2003 promise to leave Aldrin and Armstrong out.

> And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all
> - he is only one of 12!

They all defer to each other like petty dictators with four years terms.

> I've heard what he said in 2003 but rumors were
> flying recently that he said Aldrin/Armstrong
> should move.

That could be a reaction to his saying at the SL PTA mtg that he understood the rationale for moving Aldrin and Armstrong. But he was very coy, never mentioned his 2003 promise to Aldrin and Armstrong, and never responded to amending the boundary study area until pressed by e-mail after the mtg.

More Later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:13PM by Thomas More.

From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...

The primary purpose of the boundary study is to reduce the student
population at Westfield and Chantilly and take advantage of the vacant
seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too far away from
Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw down the numbers at
Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were sent to Southy Lakes,
they would be taking space that would be better used by students who
actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,

Thank you for your question.

Sincerely,
Jane K. Strauss

...this is why McNair is in play

>
> Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious
> to know how poor planning has affected your
> community. As I've said before, South Lakes has
> suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are
> still paying the price for those today. I just
> don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> Perhaps you could make me understand?

I am not saying Oakton and Westfield are suffering, I am saying the communities are affected and then I don't think suffering is the correct word. There are some communities in 20171 whose boundaries keep spinning around for one reason or another. Don't think we would care so much if it just happened once, but it keeps happening over and over. We are just tired of always having to be on the defensive w/the county.

do we all protest loudly to include
> Langley?
>
> And don't tell me Stu had a master plan for it all
> - he is only one of 12!
>
get out and vote, clean house and then there maybe a chance

Thomas,
I have a map of affordable rental apartments in the county and it shows a disproportinate number of units in the McNair area south of the toll road. There is a disparity betwenen what you say and what i see on the map. Why would this be?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play


Jane also told a neighbor that she won't vote for anything that will harm Herndon - meaning, I assume, moving Aldrin isn't viable to her unless the loss was balanced with an equitable gain.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With regards to PTSA leadership, SL PTSA has also
> reached down into the lower schools in the pyramid
> to invite parents' to participate by reminding
> them that their children will be the most
> affected.
>
> As to other PTSA's taking a position, I am not
> sure that the PTSA can legally do so, if I call
> recall from other boundary disputes. Perhaps
> other PTSAs are over-stepping their bounds.
>
> It is hard to take a position when no proposals
> have been put on the table. I think the PTSA is
> being very judicious at this point.
>
> Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> reasons why you don't want to move. I am curious
> to know how poor planning has affected your
> community. As I've said before, South Lakes has
> suffered from bad decisions in the past. We are
> still paying the price for those today. I just
> don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> Perhaps you could make me understand?

PTA can't engage in partisan politics but they lobby the School Board and the Board of Supervisors all of the time on issues. SL PTA can and should agree on a preferred outcome and pursue it, even if its not the one I would support, instead of being passive and nuetral like a bunch of drugged out hippies.

I'd feel better if there had been outreach to the Aldrin and Armstrong communities.

Butler has met with both Crossfields and Fox Mill PTAs but I've heard of no meeting with Aldrin, Armstrong of McNair.

All of which re-enforces the idea that its Fox Mill and/or Crossfields.

More Later

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play

That verbiage is straight off the FAQ on the School Board website. They're circling the wagons.

More Later

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> I have a map of affordable rental apartments in
> the county and it shows a disproportinate number
> of units in the McNair area south of the toll
> road. There is a disparity betwenen what you say
> and what i see on the map. Why would this be?

I've actually priced apartments in that area for potential employees. What map are you looking at?

More Later

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Board Member Jane Strauss we have...
>
> The primary purpose of the boundary study is to
> reduce the student
> population at Westfield and Chantilly and take
> advantage of the vacant
> seats at South Lakes. Langley High School is too
> far away from
> Westfield and Chantilly to be able to help draw
> down the numbers at
> Westfield and Chantilly. If Langley studentw were
> sent to Southy Lakes,
> they would be taking space that would be better
> used by students who
> actually could help Westfield and Chantilly,
>
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jane K. Strauss
>
> ...this is why McNair is in play



Ms. Strauss' msg. doesn't make a lot of sense or she is so crafty she purposely provided holes so she can recuse herself later. She doesn't specifically state that the first two "study purposes" leads to a solution to the third purpose. And her last sentence is pretty pathetic. I am kinda embarrassed for her. How ironic she in on the school board, think she just needs to go back to school.

Cricket Wrote:

> get out and vote, clean house and then there maybe
> a chance

"A chance" depends on your perspective. I want boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want no redistricting?

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Cricket, I don't presume to know all of the
> > reasons why you don't want to move. I am
> curious
> > to know how poor planning has affected your
> > community. As I've said before, South Lakes
> has
> > suffered from bad decisions in the past. We
> are
> > still paying the price for those today. I just
> > don't see Oakton and Westfields as 'suffering.'
> > Perhaps you could make me understand?
>
> I am not saying Oakton and Westfield are
> suffering, I am saying the communities are
> affected and then I don't think suffering is the
> correct word. There are some communities in 20171
> whose boundaries keep spinning around for one
> reason or another. Don't think we would care so
> much if it just happened once, but it keeps
> happening over and over. We are just tired of
> always having to be on the defensive w/the county.


So now I'm guessing Floris.

Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are dangerous.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "A chance" depends on your perspective. I want
> boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for
> Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want
> no redistricting?

She has committed to adding Langley to the study. Check out her website.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:36PM by Thomas More.

Fox Mill and Crossfield initiated the meetings, not Board Members or South Lakes.

According to reports, both were hostile at best.

See Hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her
> neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are
> dangerous.


That Stu's propaganda. She's very bright. She was on the Lovaas show and is definitely neither a one-issue wonder nor batty. She is concerned about the deterioration in test performance at three elementary schools in the Hunter Mill District.

More Later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2007 01:39PM by Thomas More.

Clarification: I meant the kids in the neighborhood, not her kids.

But I truly do think it's important to look at her qualifications and stances, beyond just being the "anti-Stu" on the RD issue.

McNair has a history of challenges. There was an article in the Washington Post a couple of years ago that highlighted teacher's struggles to teach some of the students. I was too cheap to purchase the article to cut and paste here, but here is the first paragraph and reference info.

"This year, McNair is the only high-poverty Fairfax school that didn't meet No Child standards for three consecutive years and must now allow children to transfer to other schools and provide private tutoring. High turnover is only one challenge at McNair, where 40 percent of children are learning English and 40 percent are from low- income families..."

Maria Glod
Date: Aug 28, 2005
Section: METRO
Text Word Count: 1185

Saw her at the candidates forum at South Lakes. She talked alot but didn't say anything.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair has a history of challenges. There was an
> article in the Washington Post a couple of years
> ago that highlighted teacher's struggles to teach
> some of the students. I was too cheap to purchase
> the article to cut and paste here, but here is the
> first paragraph and reference info.
>
> "This year, McNair is the only high-poverty
> Fairfax school that didn't meet No Child standards
> for three consecutive years and must now allow
> children to transfer to other schools and provide
> private tutoring. High turnover is only one
> challenge at McNair, where 40 percent of children
> are learning English and 40 percent are from low-
> income families..."
>
> Maria Glod
> Date: Aug 28, 2005
> Section: METRO
> Text Word Count: 1185


Explain exactly how this population could help balance the socio-economic characteristics of South Lakes.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
>
> > get out and vote, clean house and then there
> maybe
> > a chance
>
> "A chance" depends on your perspective. I want
> boundary redistricting. Why would I vote for
> Christine when stoprd.org supports her - they want
> no redistricting?


Christine supports more than that. She would support looking at alternatives including "the why isn't Langley considered." this is what you were asking about. Stop-rd wants no redistricting because they don't think the approach has been smart--one unsmart thing is your Langley question.

See Hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Christine is a bit batty....ask her
> neighbors and kids. One-issue wonders are
> dangerous.


batty seems to be a qual for the job.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cricket Wrote:
> >
Stop-rd wants no redistricting
> because they don't think the approach has been
> smart--one unsmart thing is your Langley question.

From the stoprd.org website:

____________________________________________________

Our Position


StopRD.org is a newly formed grassroots coalition of concerned citizens from communities in Fairfax County who believe the School Board's redistricting practices hurt students, families and neighborhoods. StopRD.org is calling for a moratorium on redistricting — we want it to stop.

StopRd.org members live in neighborhoods attending a variety of high schools. Our reactions to the many issues raised by a forced change of high schools are mixed. But we all stand together on this one issue — we firmly support a county-wide moratorium on high school redistricting.

We believe that the end does not justify the means. The school district's attempt to resolve perceived problems in current enrollment statistics does not justify the divisiveness and anguish caused by redistricting. Social networks and family routines would change. Citizens would lose the integrity of choice of where to live, based in most cases on its affiliation with the neighborhood's public schools.

We oppose the undemocratic procedures proposed by the Fairfax County School Board in this process, including the delay of public hearings regarding the current western Fairfax County high schools boundary study until after FCPS School Board elections. We also oppose any FCPS School Board consideration of an appointed boundary planning committee, as this would insulate Board members from the very people they represent.

Don't let FCPS disrupt the lives of thousands of citizens through forced redistricting of community high schools. Join with us to let FCPS administrators and School Board members know we do not support their redistricting initiatives.


Support a Moratorium on School Redistricting!
Sign Our Petition To Show Your Support Now!

_________________________________________________________


Here is the language from their website. Where does it state that they want "smart" redistricting? It is clear they want NO redistricting.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fox Mill and Crossfield initiated the meetings,
> not Board Members or South Lakes.
>
> According to reports, both were hostile at best.

Word, I attended one of those meetings and it was anything but hostile.
The format was basically Fox Mill parents asking questions of Bruce Butler and a panel of South Lakes students. My impression was that at least on the surface the parents were very open-minded and impressed with the student speakers. There was only one hostile questioner in the whole pack.

Not sure where you got your information, but I was strongly under the impression (based on first-hand discussions at PTSA meetings) that Bruce Butler initiated the meetings.

Your comments cement for me the close-minded attitude you have to the entire process. You and your allies have no trouble telling South Lakes that we should just roll over and gladly accept McNair, but don't seem to like it when we reach into your community for consensus or at least for a fair hearing.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas,
> > I have a map of affordable rental apartments in
> > the county and it shows a disproportinate
> number
> > of units in the McNair area south of the toll
> > road. There is a disparity betwenen what you
> say
> > and what i see on the map. Why would this be?
>
> I've actually priced apartments in that area for
> potential employees. What map are you looking at?


I have the most recent (2006-7) official FFX map of Affordable Rental Housing. It shows hundreds of units south of the toll road.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=12444&paper=65&cat=104


Gibson said the crazy-quilt pattern of school attendance along Route 7 owes to 30 years of unrelated boundary decisions.
“You are asking us to make sense of a set of boundaries that were formed over 30 years by other people, some of whom are [now] dead,” Gibson said.
“Our [School Board policy on boundaries] lists about 10 different factors in no particular order,” Gibson said.
“Since when do you want consistency from a public body?”

From what I heard and know, Christine is for a more open process in redistricting. She has not promised no redistricting. See her blogs at

http://blogs.arakelian.com/christine/

>
> We believe that the end does not justify the
> means. The school district's attempt to resolve
> perceived problems in current enrollment
> statistics does not justify the divisiveness and
> anguish caused by redistricting. Social networks
> and family routines would change. Citizens would
> lose the integrity of choice of where to live,
> based in most cases on its affiliation with the
> neighborhood's public schools.
>
> We oppose the undemocratic procedures proposed by
> the Fairfax County School Board in this process,
> including the delay of public hearings regarding
> the current western Fairfax County high schools
> boundary study until after FCPS School Board
> elections. We also oppose any FCPS School Board
> consideration of an appointed boundary planning
> committee, as this would insulate Board members
> from the very people they represent.
>
> Don't let FCPS disrupt the lives of thousands of
> citizens through forced redistricting of community
> high schools. >
> __________________________________________________
> _______
>
>
> Here is the language from their website. Where
> does it state that they want "smart"
> redistricting? It is clear they want NO
> redistricting.


I don't know "smart" seems to be the best way to sum the 2 paragraphs left above.

Rather than just reading everyone's website and taking things at face value talk to the folks at Stop-rd, you would understand more of why they are asking for a MORATORIUM (its because the current study ain't smart). MORATORIUM means "delay of any action." BUT, you have to STOP the current study in order to have a MORATORIUM.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> I have the most recent (2006-7) official FFX map
> of Affordable Rental Housing. It shows hundreds
> of units south of the toll road.

There are no projects like Stonegate south of the Toll Road.

There may be ADUs scattered among the market rate units but they would be no more than 10% of the market rate units. The ADU ordinance requires the developers of all residential projects of 50 dwelling units or more to set aside 10% of the project's units for the ADU program.

The market rate rents certainly would take the balance of those apartmetns out of my definition of "affordable."

This is curious.

More Later

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saw her at the candidates forum at South Lakes.
> She talked alot but didn't say anything.

And stu did?

More Later