"NCLB was authored and sponsored by Senator Edward Kennedy, a Democrat. Bush may have supported and signed it"

Well...well....the Dems are quite good at disinformation....big surprise.....and to think...all the complaints I've heard from FCPS Teachers blaming Pres Bush for NCLB. So...this is rather like Dave Albo's (R) Driver Abuser fee bill which was signed by Gov Kaine (D). And to think...all this time I've been blaming Albo! Hmmmm....
Say no to Busing......and this is pure business..I don't want to donate $50,000 in property value. I already give to United way.

VaDriver makes good points.

People with children buy homes largely based on the reputation and performance of the public schools. Houses in the better districts will have a higher value. I am currently considering a move to Fairfax but will wait until this busing issue has been resolved.

Unlike the Kennedy types, who have alot to say about public education but have never stepped foot inside a public school, I can't afford to send my children to private schools.

Hi again.

I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent who could honestly guide me through the murky waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need a straight shooter, not someone speaking the newspeak language of political correctness. I want to buy a house in an area with schools that already have a good record of success, not a school in the middle of an experiment.

I don't want to hear words like....diversity, multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard all that before and, usually, unless you are discussing an expensive international prep school, those are code words for, bad school.

I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going to relocate, I would need good guidance.

Thankyou

All these posts have been really amusing. It doesn't matter what school it is, all of them have the 'segregation' thing going on. It's typical suburbia high school behavior. And ALL of them have gangs and drugs and all the other things parents try to shield their kids from.

Yes, some schools have more than others but none of them are all that bad and if your kid doesn't bother with the gangs and the drugs they usually won't bother with your kid.

As for your property value 'plummeting', how the hell do you know? You don't. There are plenty of million dollar homes in the South Lakes district, according to the county tax assessment records. And your house's value is going to plummet no matter what district you are in because the housing prices had soared to overinflated prices that were not realistic. Kind of like the Dot.com boom where companies were paying idiots who knew nothing 100K even though the company hadn't made any money yet.

Now if you are driving past one school to go to another and it's not because of a special program, that's stupid. Redistricting is definitely in order.

According to the Farifax County projections all enrollment is going down not up, there is an aging population and there is no where else to build. Over crowding is not an issue, schools are not over crowded. Those that are slighlty over capacity are going down in the next two years. The problem solves itself.

Message to School Board - go find something constructive to do or you will be out of a job this November.

I have no doubt there are many million dollar homes in the South Lakes District. Now,move that home to another "pyramid" and see what it's worth.

Expanding on the above thought.

It also won't matter what the current market is. It's all relative.

OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the moment.

South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in the end, I see that the Reston residents who attend Langley have also been moved to South Lakes.

Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston residents FIRST!

OhReally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi again.
>
> I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent
> who could honestly guide me through the murky
> waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need
> a straight shooter, not someone speaking the
> newspeak language of political correctness. I want
> to buy a house in an area with schools that
> already have a good record of success, not a
> school in the middle of an experiment.
>
> I don't want to hear words like....diversity,
> multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard
> all that before and, usually, unless you are
> discussing an expensive international prep school,
> those are code words for, bad school.
>
> I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I
> apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going
> to relocate, I would need good guidance.
>
> Thankyou

Tell them in plain direct terms, that you want to live in a neighborhood with whites and asians and a school district that reflects the same. Some of them will tell you that it goes against their policies.. thats when you walk across the street to the next broker. believe me, one of them will quickly step up and deliver.. worked for me.

don't tread on me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!


I wants to get me somes of those vanilla Langely bitches. Awwww, yeaahhh!

School board,
Get ready for major law suits... parents who pay to live in expensive Chantilly, Oakton areas are NOT GOING TO LET YOU SHOVE SOUTH LAKES down our throats without a fight.

If we wanted our children to go there, we would have moved to that district. Look at something important.... the attendance is lower there and the other schools are overcrowded why??? BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO GO THERE..

Build a new school in the middle of all of these schools and make sure that kids from the same neighborhood remain together in a school with the same people they live with and around. We live here because we want our kids to go to Chantilly...

You had better be ready to write checks to all those people whos equity goes out the window if you are stupid enough to try to push this.

We as parents are not going to put up with this being forced on us.


See you in court!

. . .
that was interesting. . .
was not expecting that at all . .

I wonder if this is dejavu circa 1960s

School board is up for election this year. What are these candidates position on redistricting.

There will be a lot of support for someone who comes out against it.

Hunter Mill - Stuart Gibson (Incumbent) v Christine Arakelian (Gibson is definetly for putting more kids in South Laakes, how bout you Christine????

Sully - Kathy Smith (Incumbant) v John Litzenberger (Smith is very non-committal, we all know what that means, how bout you John????

How bout the at-large seats.... anybody know if we can count on these people???
Christian Braunlich
Ralph Cooper
Paul Costantino
Tina Hone
Steve Hunt
Ilryong Moon
James Raney
Christopher Volkstorf

I would trust Steve Hunt and Chris Braunlich. They listen to people.

No student who goes to Langley will be redistricted. Langley is the most over crowded school but immune from boundary changes.

Why not just close South Lakes? Within 4 years ALL South Lakes kids can be absorbed into the other schools with no over crowding. South Lakes tried IB to keep kids, it didn't work. Nothing works. Population keeps going down. So close it and move on.

If you want to compare everything, go to the state websites. You will quickly see that South lakes does have more violence, more assaults on teachers, more weapons, and more drugs, than Oakton, despite the fact that Oakton has 2200 students and South Lakes has 1300. You will also find differences in SOL and SAT scores.
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/index.

Yes, parents who want their kids going to college do not want him sitting a class with an acting out hip hopper who has no interest in anything other than disrupting the class. It's not about race, it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much more likely to be in a class with disruptive students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or Madison.

I won't even get to how many families will be screwed by this redistricting, how much money they will lose through no fault of their own. They should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.

The only school in the area that is severely overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.

Sully District - VOTE FOR JOHN LITZENBERGER

John Litzenberer's position on redistricting...

Boundary Changes (from his web site http://www.coachlitz.com/issues.shtml#safety)

Boundary changes are one of the most contentious and polarizing processes a school system has to go through. My position is that the parents who have their children in the school system, plus pay the taxes that help fund the school system, must have the largest say in how the boundaries are realigned. The whole process, from the compiling of statistics, to determining costs and to finally presenting a proposal MUST be totally transparent. This not only is the fairest way to approach this problem, but the only way.

When the current school board voted to delay any discussion or release of data until after the Fall 2007 election, it flunked the transparency test. This created distrust, anxiety and overall concern that the boundary process was rigged in advance. When I asked Mr. Jack Dale, School Superintendent, about the delay at a Strategic Governance forum, several incumbents jumped all over me for asking the question. They then cut me off before Mr. Dale had an opportunity to answer. Consequently, I feel the boundary process as it stands today appears to be unfair.

As a point of reference, when my second daughter was in school, she went to a different school every year for five years in a row between fourth and eight grades. It was during this period that I organized the parents, came up with our own plan, and went to the school board and then the county board of supervisors to present a more reasonable plan. The parents’ plan was the one ultimately adopted. I think this type of tried and proven technique is the best approach to a boundary issue.

don't tread on me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!


I found this real estate listing in Reston.

"Charming home with wraparound deck, cozy fireplaces, Langley High School. Must see!"

Interestingly, the other RE listings for Reston never mention South Lakes or Herndon Highs.

neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to compare everything, go to the state
> websites. You will quickly see that South lakes
> does have more violence, more assaults on
> teachers, more weapons, and more drugs, than
> Oakton, despite the fact that Oakton has 2200
> students and South Lakes has 1300. You will also
> find differences in SOL and SAT scores.
> http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/index.
>
> Yes, parents who want their kids going to college
> do not want him sitting a class with an acting out
> hip hopper who has no interest in anything other
> than disrupting the class. It's not about race,
> it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and
> SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much
> more likely to be in a class with disruptive
> students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or
> Madison.
>
> I won't even get to how many families will be
> screwed by this redistricting, how much money they
> will lose through no fault of their own. They
> should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of
> the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that
> are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.
>
> The only school in the area that is severely
> overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school
> will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many
> thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be
> closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.

My guess is that if students who should be attending South Lakes but are attending the "elite high schools," the test scores would increase and the % of violence would decrease.

Get the word out...

If you are in the Hunter Mill District and against this redistricting vote for Christine Arakelian.

Stu Gibson will definetely suck you into the mess at South Lakes.

>>>My guess is that if students who should be attending South Lakes but are attending the "elite high schools," the test scores would increase and the % of violence would decrease.<<<<

Who is it that SHOULD be attending South Lakes? Madison students? Herndon? Not exactly elites.

No Langley students get sent to South Lakes. Ever. Period. Not gonna happen.

Yes, when they make more well off kids go to South Lakes, test scores will go up but less they are kicking out the bad kids, violence and drugs won't decrease, they'll just have a larger pool of targets and customers. So, whose kids get sacrificed to bring up the scores?

I agree with the others, if you want your voice to be heard, vote for JOHN LITZENBERGER in Sully, and Christine Arakelian in Hunter Mill. Also, Don't forget Steve Hunt, at large candidate who listens to parents.

Gerry,
You are so right. No real estate agent would advertise that a home was located in South Lakes school district.

the sad part of this thread is that people like neen and capys have never attended south lakes. "suck you into the mess?" excuse me? are you serious?

i just think its funny that so many of my friends at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes it.

if your kid is bright, he will be in with other students of similar mental capacity. put him in the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in college will tell you that the ib program prepared them better for college than their ap-taking counterparts. (and how can you even say that students at south lakes are more disruptive? people need to stop speculating about "what probably is" versus fact)

i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of adequately presenting arguments against going to south lakes and doesnt throw around tired, re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like www.keepoakton.org

Why is the enrollment at south lakes going down so dramatically, while enrollment at neighboring schools are not?

Could it be that families with school age children are not moving into the Reston area because of the schools?

The facts are indisputable. When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):

1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests

2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations

3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores

4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges

Fairfax County Public Schools make all of these numbers public on its web site.

5) South Lakes has more minorities that new students might get exposed to.

Everyone here just redefines what it means to beat a dead horse.

If this is the bigoted and elitist attitude you raise your children with
fine. we wouldn't want your 'kind' to be with our kind community of South Lakes


I have nothing against your kids. In fact. they continue to have an open invitation to come to South Lakes. redistricting or not.

I just feel sorry for them.
that they have to live in such a close minded environment.

Zen, well said. They can hide behind whatever they choose, but everyone (including those that will be redistricted) really knows what it is about. For what it is worth, when FFX hires teachers, do you really think that they take the worst ones and put them in South Lakes? No, your child will recieve the same education at any school, what they might not recieve is the same home life.

Brian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the sad part of this thread is that people like
> neen and capys have never attended south lakes.
> "suck you into the mess?" excuse me? are you
> serious?
>
> i just think its funny that so many of my friends
> at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and
> honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes
> it.
>
> if your kid is bright, he will be in with other
> students of similar mental capacity. put him in
> the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in
> college will tell you that the ib program prepared
> them better for college than their ap-taking
> counterparts. (and how can you even say that
> students at south lakes are more disruptive?
> people need to stop speculating about "what
> probably is" versus fact)
>
> i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of
> adequately presenting arguments against going to
> south lakes and doesnt throw around tired,
> re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like
> www.keepoakton.org

Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high school they end up attending. The parents are the ones hung up on the property value and status thing.

On the keepoakton.org website, the real eye opener is the high school boundary link. It's evident that the past school board(s) screwed everything up! The board must have been very accommodating to the various neighborhoods. How does the board explain Madison and McLean boundaries leap frogging over certain South Lakes and Marshall neighborhoods?

The real laugher is the Langley boundary. That boundary is practically 20 percent of the county! Why not close all other high schools and have everyone in the County attend Langley.

In the end, we taxpayers are paying for the school board's lack of prudent decision making. While other high schools are under capacity, a new wing is being built at Langley and an elementary school was built in order to accommodate the influx of students to the Langley pyramid. In reality, they should be attending high school pyramids much closer.

> Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high school they end up attending.

In academic circles, this is known as the Stockholm Syndrome.

This whole issue has a hell of alot more to do with property values. If redistricting occurs and South Lakes is the High School for my neighborhood, house values will plummet. My African American neighbors will be sharing in the loss as well. As I said in an earlier post, I give to United Way.. That's it. Giving to the redistricting "cause", "agenda", "experiment", etc. would be another huge donation which isn't even tax deductable.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high
> school they end up attending.
>
> In academic circles, this is known as the
> Stockholm Syndrome.


In academic circles we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Entertain a thought with me. if you can go so as far as thinking for a moment with out ignorantly judging the world.

Why does South Lakes have such a bad public reputation?
Haven't you heard? the Band made is ranked nationally. The JROTC battalion is one the more decorated units in the United States like it's sister units in the county. they consistently send students to the Ivy Leagues and the Service Academies.

Why is it that you must pick on this school so much?
If we just cut down on this rather cynical pablum. maybe South Lakes image would more accurately reflect how much of a good school it is.

Does this make sense?
or am I being drowned out by the noise your ego makes.

> Why does South Lakes have such a bad reputation?

see post by plj above

How dare you even try pushing numbers in my face?

the four seconds you took to copy and paste those numbers on your screen
does not replace the four years I spent at that school

do you think I would have bothered arguing with you folks this long if I haven't heard that already?


Try again.

Oakton's band is stronger? Yet SLs band has been winning 1st places at Nationals.....We got some strong stuff going on. Our theatre program keeps getting nominations and winning Cappies, basically all of our performing arts are AMAZING including all musics, step team, dance team, and competitive theatre. So if you're worried about extra-curriculars, think again. Our art students (all different races - mind you) are going to paint murals around the school again too. And you've probably never even BEEN to south lakes to see the origingal murals before we renovated. They were breathtaking.

You all dont want to go to south lakes because of the diversity and you're trying to find every excuse other than that. but it really just boils down to its higher hispanic and black populations. Gangs??? Don't make me laugh. "Gangs" around south lakes are really just wanna-be gangs who take the top bolt out of signs and then think theyre so bad......very dangerous I know. Anything else that others say is just to get attention. There is nowhere in Reston where I dont feel safe.

Honestly, if you're worried about gangs or your child being abused in any way by other students, I have to say that I'm a 16 year old, 6 foot tall, white, female, student at South Lakes and I feel perfectly safe and comfortable. My classes are great, the administration is wonderful and I have to say that I absolutely love South Lakes and would regret going anywhere else because I know that if I did, I would end up being one of those "daddy bought me a new lexus" girls who get nervous if any person of another race were even in the same room as them. And to all of you who are scared of diversity, this is America folks. Not all of us are just rich white people here and you all need to learn that.

That philosophy should get you an A, but not from your English teacher. You must be hard to spot at 16-years old, Caucasian, and 6-feet tall :-) With all the natural art talent, your school should be the county's art/music magnet school. I'm just not sure where I could park my Lexus there. Best wishes on your SOLs and AP courses!

Cappies = Crappies

Why don't everybody stay at their own school. everybody like their school. it's ok way it is.

Yes, since none of these schools are over crowded, and some will be under enrolled within 4 years, why redistrict anyone? Leave them where they are.

If there is a problem at South Lakes, then FCPS needs to fix it. They need to make South Lakes a school that attracts students. But they shouldn't fix their problem by forcing students out of their high schools and into South Lakes.

Elizabeth, it is you who sound like a bigot, prejudice against people who have more money than you have.

You might want to compare the schools we're discussing here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/

Compare South Lakes to the schools that are being forced to go, Madison, Oakton, and Herndon.

Yes, there is more violence at South Lakes, more drugs, more teacher assaults, lower scores, etc. It has nothing to do with race. No one has any problem with well behaved students of any race. I suspect that you know that. It's not about race, it's about behavior. duh.

I'm glad that you feel safe, but some at your school haven't been so lucky.

ming,

Not funny.

Of any minority group in Fairfax County, Asian-Americans standout for their dedication to learning and education. One has only to read the end-of-year announcements of the top-ranked students and the premier colleges that the Asian-Americans attend.

Your racial baiting sounds like a personal problem of a less talented student. And if you are attempting to personify Hispanic students, that ain't funny either.

theres a girl at my school (langley) who got expelled for coke and weed and got sent to south lakes and apparently she really liked it. she came back because all her friends are here, but i guess her enjoying it says a lot about a school. shes a bitch, straight up.

Gibson and Strauss are costing us all a lot of money by their ridiculous Langley boundary. People in Great Falls should get also be included - th Holly Knoll section used to go to Herndon? Are they bussing kids to Langley tht would not even be transported by FCPS to Herndon? Wiehle has it's extension now. What about the development that opens up onto 7 and Hunter Mill that is going to Langley? That is betwen the South Lakes sending area and the Madison Island. It's all BS and I guess Strauss and Gibson sold their votes on bulding the unneeded South County Middle School to keep these people happy. It's a scam to buld an addition at Langley. South Lkaes had a bad principal - now it is one of the few schools with a good one. The South Lkaes stigma has ben perpetuated by Gibson and Strauss for a decade and they are pepetuating it by not including Langley now.

To all those interested:

It is appalling that some on this forum speak about South Lakes as if it is a troubled inner-city school. South Lakes is among the top 2% of high schools in the country and maintains very strong academic and extra-curricular programs.

For those that aren't aware, South Lakes has less than a year left on a $50 million renovation and is lead by the 2006 principal of the year, Bruce Butler. Please take the time to watch the below video. This is a link to a profile on Bruce Butler. The "elite" high schools would be lucky to have a principal who cares as much or works as hard.

http://www.fcps.edu/DIT/streaming/ss9_fypoybutler.asx

Great post, Mr. Butler!

Jimmy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great post, Mr. Butler!


Great rebuttal, Mr. Ignorant!

incredible repartee, mr know-it-all!

How about simply, that the west county area (particularily near the Frying Pan Park area) is tired of being shoved around to different schools every 2-3 years. How stupid is that? None of these neighborhoods are ever settled. the school board continues with the same story every time "if we just do this, then everything will get fixed." 3 years down the road we will hear the same thing from the same jerks.

Well said FarSide.

I think all Fairfax County schools are good, and the kids going to them want to continue in their own school. Just leave everything the way it is,

And stop criticizing other peoples schools and hinting that people are racists.

It's good the way it is.

South County Middle School - They have a middle school too!?

South County Middle School is the intended project of many running for or on the School Board. Some people expect everyone in this county to pay for the place on an expedited basis after money was spent on Lake Braddock. What stinks about the west County boundary change process is the absolute exclusion of Langley and it's addition is a slap in the face to every taxpayer except those who any rational person would send to South lakes or Herndon instead. Every board member who allowed this without question should be recalled or voted out. The majority of Gibson'and Strauss' constituents do not benefit and we all have to pay for this.

South Lakes has IB. At other IB schools kids are enrolled in and also taking AP exams. That includes Mount Vernon also a smaller school.

Look - there is a reason that South Lakes receives a 4 from the Great Schools website (out of 10) and Oakton and Madison receive an 8/9. South Lakes has significantly more problem students, both in terms of academic achievement and behavior. And it is not surprising that people are not clamoring to go to South Lakes. And bluntly put, the entire Fairfax County school system is overrated (except for Thomas Jefferson) - none of the high schools compares to the suburban Chicago high school I attended - which, like TJ, receives a 10 out of 10 Great Schools score. It was a local school - not a magnet - and the 4 or 5 other high schools that surround it were just as good. The town I lived in had a midwestern work ethic - so lacking in the entitlement culture prevalent here. The middle (yes, the middle) of the class went to schools like Wisconsin and Indiana and Michigan. Of course, my high school wasn't very diverse, either.

I must also say to the Reston/South Lakes supporters - there clearly are parts of Reston that are not very safe, and it is directly related to the kinds of people that live in the public housing there - and yes, unfortunately, there is a racial correlation. And it is reflected in the schools as well - although the best coping defense is to teach kids to avoid the hip hop rip-raff like the plague. I know this the old fashioned way - I drive a few miles to run on the trails in Reston - about 5 times a week. Run 7-10 miles in the community and you get to know it up close - and see a lot. And this is not a Reston bash - the trails are excellent - with no danger from vehicular traffic. And clearly, my experiences vary considerably based on where I run - I find it astounding the hassles I often get from young black males near the Reston community center area - the Snake Den trail to those who know - invariably drinking and just acting disrespectful. I say astounding, because when I was a serious athlete at the national level I ran mostly black dominated events - generally we were among the most disciplined and tough minded group of people - and find it laughable now that I get harassed because of my race and penchant for exercise - but make no mistake about it - the threat is there - which I feel somewhat in control over, because, while still in my mid-40's - I can really still move if I have to - and I have at times really ripped through the crowd to avoid trouble. And lest one think I am exaggerating, I have run all over the world - and in some really tough neighborhoods (Watts, thank you, outside the LA Coliseum, south Atlanta, DC, West Philly, slums in Paris etc.) and am pretty fairly tuned to dangerous characters - certain areas of Reston just put my antennae up. Fairfax County police officers I know concur with my sense of apprehension. While I certainly am cautious about prejudging anyone because of race and the like - let's not kid ourselves, there are problems at South Lakes and at Reston - and to be blunt - people move to the suburbs to relieve themselves of these problems (people of all races by the way) - the perceptions to a considerable extent are real. And Elizabeth - don't run on certain Reston trails alone - ever - this isn't my advice alone, but those of a number of professional level female runners that live in and near Reston - they are all too aware of the danger. I have volunteered to run with them on occasion for just this reason.

Why is Langley high school always held safe from redistricting? Students can never be moved out (although they can be moved IN to Langley) so they are taken from the Loudoun county line all the way inside the beltway to attend Langley. Why is that? Anyone know? What makes them immune from redistricting?

And why is South County getting a middle school? It's not needed according to enrollments or enrollment projections. Is it?

Langley - because they have lost of money

rodney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley - because they have lost of money


The only people that want to pay for that are the ones that should be moved. Do the vast majority of people in Langley boundaries want this? NO. They are just as confused as evryone else. It uses bond money and money from the operating fund for stuff with shorter useful life. The county gives extra money to FCPS for the debt service. Because the Langley administrators allowed about 200 dump trucks of fill illegally dumped on the property [caught by Mclean Citizens Association] the addition was delayed and people were told the delay was a run-off situation. But nt why...thought it was just normal site issue not a boondoggle. The county decided not to fine FCPS or to hold the admins or contractor personally liable so the removal cost is coming out of the discretionary funds for the addition.

As for other issues, many people would like later start times or better bus arrival times. Cooper [on the way to Lngley] for many kids does not share busses.

Maybe the principal wants more kids because he gets a wider pool for the football team. Langley is an older unrenovated building - except for the lack of walls the old South Lakes was nicer. People would rather get the bathrooms done and basics handled just like people do in houses.

If you haven't read this posting, please do so:

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: September 25, 2007 11:19PM

Not everyone is going to lack what quantum says; however, I think that it is the most truthful and revealing commentary on the real problems in this part of the county. Kudos to you, quantum, for your sincere and forthright comments.

The bottom line is that we have choice--perhaps not where we live or what school we attend. But we can choose to better ourselves and make do with what we have. Or, we can hangout with "gangs" or "losers." We all need to stop pointing fingers at others and look inwardly and repair.

Let my clarify my perspective - I don't think it helpful to criticize the element of South Lakes High School that gives it its reputation (one can argue how deserved it may be) in a way that bespeaks of meanness. But by the same token, we also must speak to accountability - and in a blunt way that people are not accustomed to doing.

And let's be blunt when it comes to South Lakes. It is not just the increased (by a fair amount) incidents of student violence, truancy, drop out rate and the like that bother parents. These elements are verifiable and likely worst in the concrete than as reflected by statistics, for the simple fact that most high school systems do a far less than creditable job of tracking drop-outs - and the drop out rate is higher than credited. There are things that happen in South Lakes that just shake the sensibilities of suburban parents - who, let's face it, are by and large are on the mission - that is - the most important thing in their lives, is to educate their children to survive and prosper in a knowledge based economy. And suffice to say that the average single mother 8a housing recipient in the South Lakes area is, even if interested in the "mission", likely very limited in her ability to fulfill it - such are the constraints that questionable life choices and long hardened cultural impediments impose. In any event, what are the events that shake the sensibilities? Well, at Langston Hughes middle school a few years back (across the driveway from South Lakes), school authorities detained an 8th grader for pimping a stable of 8th grade girls - with his base of operations the bus and the schoolyard. And the boy and his charges and their "customers' were doing their best renditions of a gangsta rap video. at middle school prices too boot. Is this the school's fault? No - they acted in my view responsibly and quickly in dealing with the issue - but really, what parent wants their children exposed to this? It is common sense - work like crazy to afford a 600 hundred thousand dollar house in the burbs, and have your kids exposed to this? What kind of childhood is that? Put another way, what possible value is there for kids and their parents to move from Oakton to Madison and the like? There isn't any - it is almost a complete negative - except that it helps the school system hide the poor scores and discipline problems - as the Parents United Supreme Court case reflects - whites and asians are valuable commodities in the public school game and can paper over lots of problems. This last comment might raise the ire of some - really, now - think Seattle and Louisville went all the way to the Supreme Court for trivial reasons? no - their racial assignment plans are crucial to helping the administrators keep their jobs and avoid the consequence of having a few failing and dismal schools in their system.

I actually understand the school board's position here - if they don't rezone, the problems at South Lakes will only get worse - they know that their chances of undoing the cultural impediments and lack of appreciation for education in some of the South Lakes homes are limited at best, and transferring a whole slug (I believe Stu Gibson referred in a PTO meeting as an 'influx of well prepared students") is really the only practical way to reverse the decline. And they just spent a boatload of money on improvements at South Lakes - likely not needed wth declining enrollments the next 10 years. But let's be blunt - again - it is being done on the backs of the transferor parents and kids - without much to gain other than a mere badge of social sacrifice. I await this kind of honesty from the school board.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Langley high school always held safe from
> redistricting? Students can never be moved out
> (although they can be moved IN to Langley) so they
> are taken from the Loudoun county line all the way
> inside the beltway to attend Langley. Why is
> that? Anyone know? What makes them immune from
> redistricting?
>
> And why is South County getting a middle school?
> It's not needed according to enrollments or
> enrollment projections. Is it?


The school board knows that would be a nasty battle if they changed the Langley boundary. It's unjust that it's not included with the proposed changes.

Quantum.... brilliant post.

Thanks for nailing the issue perfectly.

The potential transfer population is 100% behind you.

Go the meetings and give em an earful.

props to quantum indeed. thanks for at least providing background information from experience instead of throwing out numbers or accusations.

that prostitution ring was in the late nineties, by the way.



for some reason though it does seem like there is a media bias against south lakes. last football season McLean players were suspended for a sex party at an open house. like... one big orgy.

a similar event occurred at another area school, though the name escapes me at the moment.

i also feel like some people don't give enough credit to certain aspects of our school. Every year the leadership program chooses a major fundraiser. Last year we raised over $25,000 for a student battling cancer. Our peer mentoring program is currently serving as a model to kickstart other programs at FCPS schools. Tuesday, West Potomac had a rep sit in on our meeting taking note of how it is run.

Why can't the school system put a program into South Lakes that will attract new students? That's what they did in Montgomery County and it worked. If they make it attractive, no one will be forced to go there.

Another alternative is to begin to close South Lakes. Within 4 years, all of the students can be absorbed by the other high schools, with no overcrowding. Look at the projected numbers, 4 years out, and you'll see it.

To those who mentioned that Langley has money and that makes it immune from redistricting, all the areas that will be redistricted into South Lakes also have money. The Madison 'island' is the home to at least one Congressman and many more wealthy people, including attornies. They will put up considerable opposition to this redistricting. As will Oakton parents and the well off folks in the Reston North End.

Buckle your seat belts,it's going to be a bumpy ride, after the election. Interesting that there will be NO discussion of the boundary changes until all the democrats have been re-elected.

Jane Strauss will not permit a Langley High School Boundary change process. Same for Gibson. If any Aldrin people get moved into South Lakes then they should Domino Langley people into Herndon plus some to South Lakes. Everyone in the county is paying for this junk. Everyone at those boundary meetings should raise their hands in break-out rooms to support including Langley in this boundary process. Everyone in the process should email all board members ASAP.

It's a county-wide school division and behave in that fashion. If people got equal and fair treatment there would be no cause for complaint or justification for lawsuits. This is way too blatent...

Why would Stu Gibson agree to not moving Langley students into South Lakes? It would benefit South Lakes, where his voters are. If he has made a deal with Janie Strauss to not touch Langley students, what does he get out of this deal?

Community meetings never change anything, but people should still let them know how unfair it is to never include Langley in any discussions of boundaries.

Especially for South Lakes, this school boundary argument reminds me of the "urban flight" (pc version) during the 60s, but this is Fairfax County's version.

This post is a little off-topic from South Lakes and the proposed Western Redistricting but...

I live in the Alexandria portion of the Hayfield district and am frustrated at, as we all know, how this school is lackluster and how recent rezonings involving South County are not helping. Because the School Board did not base their projections for South County correctly in the first place, this rezoning only 2 years after SoCo has opened is ridiculous.

I want to voice my blunt complaint at how the School Board says they want to maintain socioeconomic balance and equality during rezonings, but don't. In the recent rezoning for 07-08, the majority of South County's few less desirable neighborhoods of Lorton (all within 5 min. of SoCo and 15 min. from Hayfield) were brought over to Hayfield, with the infamous Hagel Circle being the only obvious undesirable neighborhood left in South County's territory. It is a fact that most of Hayfield's troubled children always come from Lorton and not its immediately surrounding community of Alexandria. I personally believe that South County should serve and reflect the population of its own community, while Hayfield should do the same.

It is projected that Hayfield's F/R rate will increase and SoCo's will decrease. It seems that they're trying to destine Hayfield for failure and pad South County with more wealth while appeasing criticism with just keeping Hagel. FCPS politics as always.

I forgot to add, I don't think SoCo needs a middle school because Hayfield was sufficiently undercrowded when SoCo was overcrowded. Sufficient capacity does exist if balanced correctly.

Lake Braddock should be used for some of the Silverbrook South County nighborhoods. Braddock had millions in renovations as did Hayfield plus it got an addition. Hayfield should have it's own middle school GT Center. Why do we have to pay for GTC busses? The program is huge now - put them back at their own schools.

In each case nothing was done about GT which takes up space that should be HS2:MS1 in proportionality. 7/8,9/10/11,/12. I remember when they opened Lorton Station yet continues bussing Hagel Circle to Halley so people who don't need resources would still get stuff at Halley.

Grant Hill went to SL. His mom gave the key note speech when I graduated from Robinson in 99' it was fucking retarded. Seriously though if you are that worried about where your kids go just pick a program that your dream school has that SL doesnt. Sign Language is a good one.

Yes, FCPS has allowed students to go to other schools if the high school they attend doesn't offer the program or course that they want, as long as they can provide their own transportation. That helps people who can afford cars, but not the rest.I suspect that will end with South Lakes.

Yes, Hayfield got screwed on boundaries with South County. I don't know why the Hayfield school board rep agreed to it. It just made problems at Hayfield worse.

South Lakes has sign language.

Let's go back to basics. If you look at the Fairfax county map of affordable housing, you will find areas that have lots...and areas that have none. This is the basis for SL problem. Reston has been getting more than its fair share of affordable housing, as is Alexandria. Fairfax county has been unevenly placing affordable housing throughout the county, in effect creating the problems they now have with the unevenness in the school populations.

This should stop.

However, looking at the numbers, SL doesn't have more affordable housing than Westfields, for example. But Westfield has over 3000 kids, so that amount is more readily absorbed than at SL, with only 1300 kids.

What you people don't get is that SL numbers will look much better when the redistricting occurs, so housing values will not drop as feared. Really, stop whining.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 03:34PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Reston is a planned community. You got what you asked for in terms of affordable housing.

You've made your bed, now lie in it.

True. The people of Reston decide how their community works. They've decided. They're stuck with it.

Long ago, I went to a much tougher high school than South Lakes High School (SLHS), and my high school was considered one of the better schools in the country. Since Bruce Butler became Principal, SLHS has significantly increased its pride, performance and reputation.....justifiably.

My two kids (one now in college; other at SLHS) have had great experiences, have friends from all racial, religious and ethnic backgrounds, and laugh at cousins and friends from nearby schools who act like SLHS kids should get a purple hearts for going there. One neighborhood family moved out of Reston to ensure that their kids would go to Oakton......their eldest got beaten up twice in the first month of school.....maybe it was the kid?

If the parents and the kids who end up at SLHS give it a fair shake and participate actively, they'll have a great experience. Who knows? Maybe those kids will be part of the '65% of students who applied to UVA who were offered admission; average for all FCPS high schools is 25% percent.', as happened to the '07 graduating class, or the notably high number of SLHS kids who are selected for the Service Academies.

In the meantime, please try not to whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine, up-and-coming school.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True. The people of Reston decide how their
> community works. They've decided. They're stuck
> with it.


Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.

SLHS Padre...

perhaps the Oakton people would appreciate if you did not whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine school

you freekin hypocrit

My Word!!??:

You have a thin skin for someone who tosses out barbs so effortlessly.

I didn't slam Oakton HS or its community, but noted that someone who fled rough-tough South Lakes/Reston still had a tough encounter. If it had been SLHS, it would have made the TV news, I bet.

My point is: don't flee or savage something before you take a fair and close look.

Affordable housing for everyone in Fairfax County, including teachers.

not thin skinned...

just like to point out the fact that SLHS whines about being criticized and then turns around and does the same to others.... hypocrits

hypocrites is hypocrites...the criticism wasn't against Oakton (some of my best friends' kids go to Oakton). It was against behavior based on ignorance and fear, not reality. Word up.

A child got beaten twice during the first month of school? Maybe it was the kid? Isn't that akin to saying to a rape victim that she shouldn't have been so attractive. Offensive when analogized this way, huh? And the analogy is hardly inapposite. You should rethink your statement.

Look, the statistics in terms of violence and other incidents at SLHS dwarf schools such as Oakton that are much larger and frankly not without problems themselves. And the incidents of violence by and large are committed by a very identifiable group. Sure, it helps if you train you kid to keep your head down and stay out of the way of trouble, but not every teenager is going to be able to develop those instincts and in such cases will be a far more likely target for the group of predators (not big, but significant) that exist at South Lakes. And don't get me wrong - from what I can see, the school does a Herculean job of trying to keep the peace. But make no mistake about, the behavior of a group of low income, mostly fatherless, conform largely to the existing stereotype kids causes a lot of problems, and while you may disagree with parents who want to avoid South Lakes, it is a stretch to state the parents not wishing their children to transfer to Oakton are irrational - they are not.

And to the point about the new influx of kids raising the tide - well, that will happen. But the dislocation and adjustment period is neither trivial or short. Yes, the school administrators obviously welcome the influx of white and asian kids that will obtain - they generally behave well, don't require teaching to the test in terms of SOL's and the like because they are bright and well prepared enough to learn such material incidentally, and they make the school's statistics, including parent participation, graduation, SAT scores and the like more desirable -- way more desirable. But there is a long adjustment period, and make no mistake about, the benefits that obtained by the school are accomplished on the backs of the transferors, who receive very little in return, unless, of course, one puts undue weight on the shibboleth of diversity, which frankly provides little empirical value. (And Oakton is plenty diverse, it just doesn't have as many blacks, which is the code word in any event for diversity). And don't take the teaching to the test issue likely - the non AP kids stuck in regular classes will be bored and will not prosper from the necessity to get lesser kids through on the SOL tests - it is the way of the world - teachers teach to the middle of the class and the lower the middle goes so goes the class.

Again, I would love to see someone in officialdom talk so bluntly and truthfully. But that will not happen - so such talk is reserved for message boards.

HooTribe said:
>>>Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.<<<

Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna. Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna schools, play with Vienna little league, and are part of the Vienna community.

The part of Oakton who will be forced into South Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing to do with any planned community.

Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If your argument is that Reston people should go to Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the north end should have known that was the deal before they bought in that neighborhood. If you want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok, but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it. They're happy where they are, they're schools aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside their community. Let Vienna people stay in the Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high school.

Great post, quantum!

All readers should read carefully:

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: October 02, 2007 08:58PM

This discussion is one of the most articulate and well reasoned that I have seen in this thread.

Why do some areas of the county get more consideration in boundaries and school construction than others?

One problem is that the politicians build additions at school locations based on politics not geography or where people live. It would have made more sense to build additions at for example Centreville instead of Westfields. Now after the thing is built the school board is saying Westfields is too big for student participation - well they did it so live with it. A solution would be to use the space to stick in an academy rather than have it at Chantilly . Each middle school should have it's own GT center - why bus them around? The Langley money should not be spent.

Converting Carson to a high school [addition etc] and turn Westfields into a secondary school? People actually live near Carson. These are ideas for exploration. As for including Herndon in this boundary process, the Alabama ave area goes to McNair/Herndon/Herndon. Shifting that to South Lakes would not be a wise thing to do considering the the amount of low income housing in South Lakes current boundaries. Not moving anything in the gerrymandered Langley boundary really distorts this boundary process and makes a mockery of the process...

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe said:
> >>>Actually, the problem is that only part of
> Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back
> the Madison island and the north of Reston, we
> would then have all of the planned community, not
> just a portion of it.<<<
>
> Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna.
> Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never
> been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna
> schools, play with Vienna little league, and are
> part of the Vienna community.
>
> The part of Oakton who will be forced into South
> Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in
> Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing
> to do with any planned community.
>
> Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If
> your argument is that Reston people should go to
> Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the
> north end should have known that was the deal
> before they bought in that neighborhood. If you
> want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok,
> but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it.
> They're happy where they are, they're schools
> aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them
> to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside
> their community. Let Vienna people stay in the
> Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton
> high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high
> school.


Neen,

Glad to see that there are some of us who can have a calm, rational conversation about the issues.

I do think that all the Reston kids should go to South Lakes - it would provide for more socio-economic balance and promote the area school. As for the Madison island - I am aware that it has a P.O. box address of Vienna, but looking at the map, it is part of and/or close to Reston. I know it is hard to change when people consider themselves part of the Vienna area, but driving through that area (which is above the toll road), it should have been with South Lakes all along - just my opinion. I would also point out that there are small portions of our area (just south of Rt. 7) that currently go to Langley, which also should be going to South Lakes.

The Oakton community is the one that seems more complex. While parts of the Oakton area (north western) are much closer to South Lakes than Oakton, this by itself doesn't mean they should have to switch. The biggest issue is the high number of students at Westfield and the low number at South Lakes. This impacts the programs offerred at both schools - not everyone may be able to participate at Westfield and not enough programs (too few students) at SL. It would be simpler to make the change between these two schools: the northern part of Westfield connects to the SL area.

I understand that no one wants to change, but with a good principal, $50 million rennovation, more students, and the focus of the school board, South Lakes will only grow stronger.

Quantam:

I believe that you misunderstand the main thrust of what SLHS supporters are saying, and -- in particular - what I meant about the kid who got roughed up at Oakton.

First, "maybe it was the kid?" could have been too flippant, but I wasn't suggesting that he deserved it or that he was particularly vulnerable. Rather, I was saying that fights, bullying, and conflict happen in schools other than SLHS, but get highlighted at the latter. The SLHS administration's commitment to responsibility and security has paid off, and most SLHS parents feel very comfortable with their kids staying after school, going to events at the school at nights and weekends, and getting to/from school without a Blackwater/Dyncorp escort.

It's the consistent theme that SLHS is a war zone -- and I have heard this from a lot of non-SLHS parents and adults -- that I reject. It just ain't true.

Second, I didn't say that parents who want to send their kids to Oakton (or some HS other than South Lakes) are necessarily irrational. Oakton, Madison, Westfield are all excellent schools and it makes sense that parents seek to have their children attend those schools.

I just think they should take a look at the reality of what SLHS is, and then make up their mind. Don't be misled by the stereotypes and sporadic incidents that have fed those stereotypes. South Lakes is an excellent school in one of the best public school districts in the country. It's not without problems and challenges, but the stereotypes neither fit, nor help.

Hey! Come to a SLHS home football game, and see for yourself. We'll probably lose, but it is a peaceful, energetic social gathering of kids and community, and has been for years. That's the reality.

SLHS Padre - I have been to a South Lakes game - my daughter attends Thomas Jefferson and that team has had the thrill of getting stomped by South Lakes - not an unusual situation with the TJ football team. And the football games are indeed enjoyable and relatively safe events.

But again, make no mistake about it - the incidents of violence at SLHS are orders of magnitude higher than at surrounding schools, and if adjusted for the smaller size of SLHS's population, are even more significant than the raw data suggests in terms of day to day experience. This data is relatively the same year after year after year. And the data doesn't really delineate the scope of the problem, either - it doesn't relate the lower order disciplinary problems committed by the same hard core group of people that have significant socialization problems that erodes the environment for learning.

The problem is real, it exists and it undermines the credibility of those who deign to support the school to trivialize it. And while I think it unfair to unduly criticize the school itself - by all accounts the administration darn well knows the problem before them and do the best they can to contain it - it is not a topic that should be anything but discussed openly - even the stigmatization that might incur with such discussions, as painful as they are to certain afflicted groups of people, tend to have salutary effects.

I know at least a few people who live in the north part of Oakton that want to come to SLHS because it is much closer for them. Not coincidently, these are people who have had past experience with SL, so are not afraid of it. The only people here who are bashing SL are those who know nothing about it.

On the point about the north of Westfields going to SL, that looks good on the map, but that is the area with large amounts of affordable housing, so this would not help SL.

On the point about Reston "lying in our own bed", I take exception. I am glad to live in a place that values diversity, but the reality is that too much affordable housing tips the balance away from diversity. Fairfax county, not Reston, determines where affordable housing should go in the county--they should make sure it is evenly spread out, not just for the surrounding community, but for the people who live in the affordable housing. They should not be in effect segregated and forced to go to Title one elementary schools, which is a direct effect of Fairfax county current affordable housing practices.

Seeing as diversity is not going away, and there will be more of it in the future, I doubt the Oakton enclave will last much longer. Get used to it folks!

"Fairfax county, not Reston, determines where affordable housing should go in the county--they should make sure it is evenly spread out..."

Oh, give me a break. The affordable housing has been there for 20+ years, Stonegate and the like. What's been happening over the past 10 years is that families have been avoiding the SLHS area like the plague, thereby magnifying the problems associated with it.

Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10 years. Answer - NONE.

Leave the boundry alone, if it needs to be adjusted make a date of 2025. That way anyone either in district or choosing to move in to district will know that come 2025 there MAY or MAY NOT be a redistricting depending on population. Why 2025??? That is 18 school years from now all infants born this year will be able to go to and finish where they are districted now. This should also include new born siblings if they choose to attend a school that may be rezoned in 2025.

Secondly it also gives those that want to move ample time to get out of the area and sell their house while thay can. Will an Oakton house lose value if it is re zoned to SL. You bet. And onyone that wnats to argue that point is clueless to property vales in the area. Does it affect me you bet, I ahve been to the meeting and will continue to go. We already ahve an attorney on board and ready for the court case.

For those that don't know the facts Oakton is not over crowded as of school year 2007/08 they are minus 38. In addition to that due to construction limitation in the county (to include the Oakton district) it is estimated that the school population will decrease by an additional 11% in the next three years.

Let it be:

Does Oakton have trailers?

What high school and middle school do the people who live in Berryland Farms go to?

South Lakes Pyramid Parent - I concede that some Oakton, Madison parents may simply be afraid of South Lakes without adequately looking into the facts. And I concede that with work and diligence it is possible to get a good education at SLHS, particularly with regard to the 30 or so that get an IB diploma at SLHS. But it all depends on one's point of view. As I mentioned in an earlier post, all Fairfax County High Schools, save for Thomas Jefferson, which is in a class by itself both nationally and regionally, pale in comparison to the regular suburban high school I attended in a suburb of Chicago (attended 25 years ago - it is likely even better than when I attended). And the five or six schools surrounding the school I attended are equally good - there is a reason that all of these schools receive a 10 out of 10 rating (the same as TJ) on the Great Schools rating system - they are that good - better than Oakton's score of "8" - and Madison's score of "9", and Herndon and Chantilly's "7", and considerably, if not standard deviations better than SLHS' "4". Say it doesn't make any difference to an individual student? Maybe, given all the factors at hand. But I came from a single mother home, with very, very little resources, and went to college on an athletic scholarship at one of the few schools in the top 10 USNWR rankings that give athletic scholarships - and I was nearly as well or as well prepared as the matriculants who went to Philips Academy, Andover, and the like. I never, ever felt over my head. This type of experience is the standard, frankly, by which upwardly mobile people who have lived somewhere other than the entitlement based culture in DC seek and wish to obtain. And the blunt truth is that the school I attended (and those like it) are not very diverse, but they did and do have a serious approach towards education and most importantly, they have a significant lack of distractions and lesser students such such as those those found at SLHS.

One group at SLHS averages about 880 on the verbal and math portions of the SAT. I guess one could say kudos for them for even taking it, and for the high school diploma (i.e., not dropping out) that it likely implies. But it takes around at least a 1000 to be able to do meaningful (and I do mean meaningful) college work, and a school like SLHS, for reasons I understand, does spend an inordinate amount of resource, time and focus on improving these kids - and frankly, on those that don't even take the SAT's or those that drop out - kids the stats don't reach and thus make the challenges appear less significant than they actually are.

This is not intended to be a rant at South Lakes - from what I have seen, the school does an admirable job with the "material" they have to work with. But it does serve as a reminder that in addition to spending money on buildings and diversity and other feel good programs, the school would be well advised to, if it wants to enhance acceptance by those compelled to transfer, focus on a level of academic excellence for better students in a way not typical of Fairfax County Schools (and yes, bluntly that means mostly whites and asians). And in so doing, they must (not an easy thing to do for many educators that also are fond of social engineering) live with the de facto apartheid that such an approach will create, and resist the urge to water down the more academically challenging programs in the name of diversity. Great academic programs that truly challenge will do more to ease transitional issues than anything else.

Quantum,
I do get what you are saying. I am of the opinion that, while statistics do matter for many reasons, and should be taken seriously at an organizational level to make changes, they matter much less on an individual basis.

I assume my kids will be in the IB program while in High school. The IB program has national grading standards, meaning the grading is intended to be consistent across schools, etc. I assume from this that my kids will likely get the same education in South Lakes that they would in any IB school, especially within FFX county. Apparently, colleges think this too, or they wouldn't be accepting a lot of SL students.

So, if your kid is in the regular classes currently at SL, they are at a disadvantage. However, the balance will change with redistricting that will add over 50% more students to SL. Obviously, that is going to change the statistics a lot in the regular classes. Aside from that, if your kid is in Honors or GT, they will be doing IB in high school, and will get the benefits of that, no matter what high school in FFX county they are in.

Also, my kids actually like the diversity in the schools, believe it or not! and even though they have friends in neighboring schools, they do not want to go there. It really does give them something that kids from Oakton don't get. I like that part. and no, diversity doesn't just mean "black". It's also the kids from other cultures that they interact with on a daily basis. They really do get a different perspective that I never had, but I appreciate. I think it really does teach them to be accepting of many types of differences, not just racial, but cultural, talent, etc.

I'm not bashing people who want to stay at Oakton for whatever reason, but I guess I do think it is small-minded to think that the trends of our society in general, greater diversity, etc, will never touch them, and shouldn't, because they bought a house in a particular neighborhood, thereby giving them the right to stay in their enclave in perpetuity. Change happens!

South Lakes Pyramid parent~

It's clear that you are rationalizing and don't want to understand the facts that quantum has articulated so well.

I have attended more government-sponsored "diversity" classes than most people. It's true, what quantum has said. For your stasis, it is really good that you and your children can rationalize your situations--I sincerely mean this statement. It surely does no good to lament one's situation and blame the environment.

I am a believer in the melting pot concept. Some where along the line this concept has changed to "diversity." I believe in the equality of all people. But it really does boil down to nature and nurture. And, let's face it: some subcultures are abhorrent--diversity training is not going to change that fact.

JB:

Um, what facts, exactly? I didn't see any stated, aside from test scores of "some kids" at the school. Does having "some" kids at a school that score 880 say anything about how my kid is going to score? Not likely.

Especially given the other facts posted recently about SL, like 65% acceptance at UVA, and the fact that the number of merit scholars was the similar for many FFX schools, including SL. These numbers actually matter.

Facts...
When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):

1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests

2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations

3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores

4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges

It's all on the FCPS web site

None of these statistics are surprising given the current demographics and the small number enrolled in the school. And, on the SAT scores, Westfields is only marginally higher and Herndon not at all.

This still doesn't refute my points on individual achievement and the kids in the IB program. Let's look at averages for kids in those programs across schools, if we want to compare apples to apples.

Also, let's estimate what the scores would be assuming redistricting-- that will give a more accurate picture of the school kids would actually experience once they are redistricted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2007 06:02PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Also, let's estimate what the scores would be
> assuming redistricting-- that will give a more
> accurate picture of the school kids would actually
> experience once they are redistricted.

South Lakes Pyramid parent,

I find all this very interesting and I hope you can answer a question for me:

So, you feel as a South Lakes Parent it is okay to move students from one school, Oakton?, to South Lakes (or any other failing school) to help even out the schools test scores?

Is this fair to the students or the community they would be coming from?

Is this something the School Board does to keep schools with not so great test scores to better them?

I find it a little disturbing that “some kids” would be used this way. Am I the only one that feels this way?

> >
>
>
> Is this something the School Board does to keep
> schools with not so great test scores to better
> them?
>
>
As I stated in my previous posts, the School Board catered to overzealous parents by changing the boundaries. One of the results is the lower test scores at certain schools.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a
> dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10
> years. Answer - NONE.


I would say Marshall High School got hosed in the 90's by certain neighborhoods along the Rt 7 corridor west of the Toll Road. One of the reasons is that those homeowners convinced the school board that they did not want their children attending a school with a vocational center. (I don't know who they expect to repair their Mercedes?)
As a result, this area is now Langley and McLean boundaries. Marshall's enrollment is now about 1100 students - the smallest high school in the county. Kudos to the administration at Marshall for keeping the school competitive academically.

I think there are many factors at play in why Reston has lost enrollment. I know several people who, instead of trying to deal with RA on renovating their homes, simply moved up to a nicer homes elsewhere. The aging of Reston has not been graceful, and it seems that RA;s design review process is intimidating to many people and they need to make the process more friendly and flexible if they want people to stay.

To ...., first of all, SL is not a "failing school". SAT scores are quite respectable, and I know many successful kids coming out of it. Secondly, I could turn your argument right around and ask if it is fair that Reston takes on so much of the county's burden of affordable housing, allowing the folks of Oakton and Great Falls to continue their oblivion to the world around them.

Why does anyone think that the school board will suddenly focus on South Lakes now when they haven't before? What would this 'focus' accomplish? Yes, renovations are nice, it's good that they finally got doors on all the classrooms, but few parents care about their whoopy new restoration.

Twenty years ago Marshall was under enrolled. They look kids out of Madison and sent them to Marshall. It made NO difference, Marshall remains under enrolled. The land is so valuable, the school system would be very wise to close Marshall. With thousands of empty seats in FC schools, it shouldn't be a problem to put those students elsewhere.

Berryland neighborhood, out Vale Road, attends Thoreau Middle school and Madison high school.

The IB program was supposed to stop white flight. It didn't. Parents don't want IB. The majority want the AP program as evidenced by ALL the top schools choosing AP over IB.

Yes, Reston is messed up, with an HOA that makes it very unfriendly to families with children. But why do families in Vienna and Oakton have to pay for that?