"NCLB was authored and sponsored by Senator Edward Kennedy, a Democrat. Bush may have supported and signed it"

Well...well....the Dems are quite good at disinformation....big surprise.....and to think...all the complaints I've heard from FCPS Teachers blaming Pres Bush for NCLB. So...this is rather like Dave Albo's (R) Driver Abuser fee bill which was signed by Gov Kaine (D). And to think...all this time I've been blaming Albo! Hmmmm....
Say no to Busing......and this is pure business..I don't want to donate $50,000 in property value. I already give to United way.

VaDriver makes good points.

People with children buy homes largely based on the reputation and performance of the public schools. Houses in the better districts will have a higher value. I am currently considering a move to Fairfax but will wait until this busing issue has been resolved.

Unlike the Kennedy types, who have alot to say about public education but have never stepped foot inside a public school, I can't afford to send my children to private schools.

Hi again.

I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent who could honestly guide me through the murky waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need a straight shooter, not someone speaking the newspeak language of political correctness. I want to buy a house in an area with schools that already have a good record of success, not a school in the middle of an experiment.

I don't want to hear words like....diversity, multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard all that before and, usually, unless you are discussing an expensive international prep school, those are code words for, bad school.

I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going to relocate, I would need good guidance.

Thankyou

All these posts have been really amusing. It doesn't matter what school it is, all of them have the 'segregation' thing going on. It's typical suburbia high school behavior. And ALL of them have gangs and drugs and all the other things parents try to shield their kids from.

Yes, some schools have more than others but none of them are all that bad and if your kid doesn't bother with the gangs and the drugs they usually won't bother with your kid.

As for your property value 'plummeting', how the hell do you know? You don't. There are plenty of million dollar homes in the South Lakes district, according to the county tax assessment records. And your house's value is going to plummet no matter what district you are in because the housing prices had soared to overinflated prices that were not realistic. Kind of like the Dot.com boom where companies were paying idiots who knew nothing 100K even though the company hadn't made any money yet.

Now if you are driving past one school to go to another and it's not because of a special program, that's stupid. Redistricting is definitely in order.

According to the Farifax County projections all enrollment is going down not up, there is an aging population and there is no where else to build. Over crowding is not an issue, schools are not over crowded. Those that are slighlty over capacity are going down in the next two years. The problem solves itself.

Message to School Board - go find something constructive to do or you will be out of a job this November.

I have no doubt there are many million dollar homes in the South Lakes District. Now,move that home to another "pyramid" and see what it's worth.

Expanding on the above thought.

It also won't matter what the current market is. It's all relative.

OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the moment.

South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in the end, I see that the Reston residents who attend Langley have also been moved to South Lakes.

Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston residents FIRST!

OhReally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi again.
>
> I wonder if anyone knows a good real estate agent
> who could honestly guide me through the murky
> waters of redistricting in Fairfax. I would need
> a straight shooter, not someone speaking the
> newspeak language of political correctness. I want
> to buy a house in an area with schools that
> already have a good record of success, not a
> school in the middle of an experiment.
>
> I don't want to hear words like....diversity,
> multiculturalism .... blah blah blah. I've heard
> all that before and, usually, unless you are
> discussing an expensive international prep school,
> those are code words for, bad school.
>
> I realize I am going somewhat off topic and I
> apologize. Clearly, though, if I am actually going
> to relocate, I would need good guidance.
>
> Thankyou

Tell them in plain direct terms, that you want to live in a neighborhood with whites and asians and a school district that reflects the same. Some of them will tell you that it goes against their policies.. thats when you walk across the street to the next broker. believe me, one of them will quickly step up and deliver.. worked for me.

don't tread on me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!


I wants to get me somes of those vanilla Langely bitches. Awwww, yeaahhh!

School board,
Get ready for major law suits... parents who pay to live in expensive Chantilly, Oakton areas are NOT GOING TO LET YOU SHOVE SOUTH LAKES down our throats without a fight.

If we wanted our children to go there, we would have moved to that district. Look at something important.... the attendance is lower there and the other schools are overcrowded why??? BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO GO THERE..

Build a new school in the middle of all of these schools and make sure that kids from the same neighborhood remain together in a school with the same people they live with and around. We live here because we want our kids to go to Chantilly...

You had better be ready to write checks to all those people whos equity goes out the window if you are stupid enough to try to push this.

We as parents are not going to put up with this being forced on us.


See you in court!

. . .
that was interesting. . .
was not expecting that at all . .

I wonder if this is dejavu circa 1960s

School board is up for election this year. What are these candidates position on redistricting.

There will be a lot of support for someone who comes out against it.

Hunter Mill - Stuart Gibson (Incumbent) v Christine Arakelian (Gibson is definetly for putting more kids in South Laakes, how bout you Christine????

Sully - Kathy Smith (Incumbant) v John Litzenberger (Smith is very non-committal, we all know what that means, how bout you John????

How bout the at-large seats.... anybody know if we can count on these people???
Christian Braunlich
Ralph Cooper
Paul Costantino
Tina Hone
Steve Hunt
Ilryong Moon
James Raney
Christopher Volkstorf

I would trust Steve Hunt and Chris Braunlich. They listen to people.

No student who goes to Langley will be redistricted. Langley is the most over crowded school but immune from boundary changes.

Why not just close South Lakes? Within 4 years ALL South Lakes kids can be absorbed into the other schools with no over crowding. South Lakes tried IB to keep kids, it didn't work. Nothing works. Population keeps going down. So close it and move on.

If you want to compare everything, go to the state websites. You will quickly see that South lakes does have more violence, more assaults on teachers, more weapons, and more drugs, than Oakton, despite the fact that Oakton has 2200 students and South Lakes has 1300. You will also find differences in SOL and SAT scores.
[www.pen.k12.va.us].

Yes, parents who want their kids going to college do not want him sitting a class with an acting out hip hopper who has no interest in anything other than disrupting the class. It's not about race, it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much more likely to be in a class with disruptive students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or Madison.

I won't even get to how many families will be screwed by this redistricting, how much money they will lose through no fault of their own. They should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.

The only school in the area that is severely overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.

Sully District - VOTE FOR JOHN LITZENBERGER

John Litzenberer's position on redistricting...

Boundary Changes (from his web site [www.coachlitz.com])

Boundary changes are one of the most contentious and polarizing processes a school system has to go through. My position is that the parents who have their children in the school system, plus pay the taxes that help fund the school system, must have the largest say in how the boundaries are realigned. The whole process, from the compiling of statistics, to determining costs and to finally presenting a proposal MUST be totally transparent. This not only is the fairest way to approach this problem, but the only way.

When the current school board voted to delay any discussion or release of data until after the Fall 2007 election, it flunked the transparency test. This created distrust, anxiety and overall concern that the boundary process was rigged in advance. When I asked Mr. Jack Dale, School Superintendent, about the delay at a Strategic Governance forum, several incumbents jumped all over me for asking the question. They then cut me off before Mr. Dale had an opportunity to answer. Consequently, I feel the boundary process as it stands today appears to be unfair.

As a point of reference, when my second daughter was in school, she went to a different school every year for five years in a row between fourth and eight grades. It was during this period that I organized the parents, came up with our own plan, and went to the school board and then the county board of supervisors to present a more reasonable plan. The parents’ plan was the one ultimately adopted. I think this type of tried and proven technique is the best approach to a boundary issue.

don't tread on me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, it's me again with one last thought - for the
> moment.
>
> South Lakes is a Reston school. I hope that in
> the end, I see that the Reston residents who
> attend Langley have also been moved to South
> Lakes.
>
> Let FCPS fill a Reston school with Reston
> residents FIRST!


I found this real estate listing in Reston.

"Charming home with wraparound deck, cozy fireplaces, Langley High School. Must see!"

Interestingly, the other RE listings for Reston never mention South Lakes or Herndon Highs.

neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to compare everything, go to the state
> websites. You will quickly see that South lakes
> does have more violence, more assaults on
> teachers, more weapons, and more drugs, than
> Oakton, despite the fact that Oakton has 2200
> students and South Lakes has 1300. You will also
> find differences in SOL and SAT scores.
> [www.pen.k12.va.us].
>
> Yes, parents who want their kids going to college
> do not want him sitting a class with an acting out
> hip hopper who has no interest in anything other
> than disrupting the class. It's not about race,
> it's about behavior. South Lakes safety stats and
> SAT scores indicate a hard working student is much
> more likely to be in a class with disruptive
> students at South Lakes, than at Oakton or
> Madison.
>
> I won't even get to how many families will be
> screwed by this redistricting, how much money they
> will lose through no fault of their own. They
> should hire lawyers. FCPS is taking money out of
> the pockets each family in the neighborhoods that
> are forced to be in the South Lakes pyramid.
>
> The only school in the area that is severely
> overcrowded is Langley. In four years, no school
> will be overcrowded. FCPS will have many
> thousands of empty seats. South Lakes could be
> closed and ALL students absorbed by 2011.

My guess is that if students who should be attending South Lakes but are attending the "elite high schools," the test scores would increase and the % of violence would decrease.

Get the word out...

If you are in the Hunter Mill District and against this redistricting vote for Christine Arakelian.

Stu Gibson will definetely suck you into the mess at South Lakes.

>>>My guess is that if students who should be attending South Lakes but are attending the "elite high schools," the test scores would increase and the % of violence would decrease.<<<<

Who is it that SHOULD be attending South Lakes? Madison students? Herndon? Not exactly elites.

No Langley students get sent to South Lakes. Ever. Period. Not gonna happen.

Yes, when they make more well off kids go to South Lakes, test scores will go up but less they are kicking out the bad kids, violence and drugs won't decrease, they'll just have a larger pool of targets and customers. So, whose kids get sacrificed to bring up the scores?

I agree with the others, if you want your voice to be heard, vote for JOHN LITZENBERGER in Sully, and Christine Arakelian in Hunter Mill. Also, Don't forget Steve Hunt, at large candidate who listens to parents.

Gerry,
You are so right. No real estate agent would advertise that a home was located in South Lakes school district.

the sad part of this thread is that people like neen and capys have never attended south lakes. "suck you into the mess?" excuse me? are you serious?

i just think its funny that so many of my friends at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes it.

if your kid is bright, he will be in with other students of similar mental capacity. put him in the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in college will tell you that the ib program prepared them better for college than their ap-taking counterparts. (and how can you even say that students at south lakes are more disruptive? people need to stop speculating about "what probably is" versus fact)

i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of adequately presenting arguments against going to south lakes and doesnt throw around tired, re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like www.keepoakton.org

Why is the enrollment at south lakes going down so dramatically, while enrollment at neighboring schools are not?

Could it be that families with school age children are not moving into the Reston area because of the schools?

The facts are indisputable. When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):

1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests

2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations

3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores

4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges

Fairfax County Public Schools make all of these numbers public on its web site.

5) South Lakes has more minorities that new students might get exposed to.

Everyone here just redefines what it means to beat a dead horse.

If this is the bigoted and elitist attitude you raise your children with
fine. we wouldn't want your 'kind' to be with our kind community of South Lakes


I have nothing against your kids. In fact. they continue to have an open invitation to come to South Lakes. redistricting or not.

I just feel sorry for them.
that they have to live in such a close minded environment.

Zen, well said. They can hide behind whatever they choose, but everyone (including those that will be redistricted) really knows what it is about. For what it is worth, when FFX hires teachers, do you really think that they take the worst ones and put them in South Lakes? No, your child will recieve the same education at any school, what they might not recieve is the same home life.

Brian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the sad part of this thread is that people like
> neen and capys have never attended south lakes.
> "suck you into the mess?" excuse me? are you
> serious?
>
> i just think its funny that so many of my friends
> at oakton bitch about how their school sucks and
> honestly pretty much everyone at south lakes likes
> it.
>
> if your kid is bright, he will be in with other
> students of similar mental capacity. put him in
> the ib diploma program. any ib diploma student in
> college will tell you that the ib program prepared
> them better for college than their ap-taking
> counterparts. (and how can you even say that
> students at south lakes are more disruptive?
> people need to stop speculating about "what
> probably is" versus fact)
>
> i highly doubt anyone in here is worthy of
> adequately presenting arguments against going to
> south lakes and doesnt throw around tired,
> re-tread arguments being spoon-fed by groups like
> www.keepoakton.org

Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high school they end up attending. The parents are the ones hung up on the property value and status thing.

On the keepoakton.org website, the real eye opener is the high school boundary link. It's evident that the past school board(s) screwed everything up! The board must have been very accommodating to the various neighborhoods. How does the board explain Madison and McLean boundaries leap frogging over certain South Lakes and Marshall neighborhoods?

The real laugher is the Langley boundary. That boundary is practically 20 percent of the county! Why not close all other high schools and have everyone in the County attend Langley.

In the end, we taxpayers are paying for the school board's lack of prudent decision making. While other high schools are under capacity, a new wing is being built at Langley and an elementary school was built in order to accommodate the influx of students to the Langley pyramid. In reality, they should be attending high school pyramids much closer.

> Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high school they end up attending.

In academic circles, this is known as the Stockholm Syndrome.

This whole issue has a hell of alot more to do with property values. If redistricting occurs and South Lakes is the High School for my neighborhood, house values will plummet. My African American neighbors will be sharing in the loss as well. As I said in an earlier post, I give to United Way.. That's it. Giving to the redistricting "cause", "agenda", "experiment", etc. would be another huge donation which isn't even tax deductable.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Most likely, the kids are happy whatever high
> school they end up attending.
>
> In academic circles, this is known as the
> Stockholm Syndrome.


In academic circles we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Entertain a thought with me. if you can go so as far as thinking for a moment with out ignorantly judging the world.

Why does South Lakes have such a bad public reputation?
Haven't you heard? the Band made is ranked nationally. The JROTC battalion is one the more decorated units in the United States like it's sister units in the county. they consistently send students to the Ivy Leagues and the Service Academies.

Why is it that you must pick on this school so much?
If we just cut down on this rather cynical pablum. maybe South Lakes image would more accurately reflect how much of a good school it is.

Does this make sense?
or am I being drowned out by the noise your ego makes.

> Why does South Lakes have such a bad reputation?

see post by plj above

How dare you even try pushing numbers in my face?

the four seconds you took to copy and paste those numbers on your screen
does not replace the four years I spent at that school

do you think I would have bothered arguing with you folks this long if I haven't heard that already?


Try again.

Oakton's band is stronger? Yet SLs band has been winning 1st places at Nationals.....We got some strong stuff going on. Our theatre program keeps getting nominations and winning Cappies, basically all of our performing arts are AMAZING including all musics, step team, dance team, and competitive theatre. So if you're worried about extra-curriculars, think again. Our art students (all different races - mind you) are going to paint murals around the school again too. And you've probably never even BEEN to south lakes to see the origingal murals before we renovated. They were breathtaking.

You all dont want to go to south lakes because of the diversity and you're trying to find every excuse other than that. but it really just boils down to its higher hispanic and black populations. Gangs??? Don't make me laugh. "Gangs" around south lakes are really just wanna-be gangs who take the top bolt out of signs and then think theyre so bad......very dangerous I know. Anything else that others say is just to get attention. There is nowhere in Reston where I dont feel safe.

Honestly, if you're worried about gangs or your child being abused in any way by other students, I have to say that I'm a 16 year old, 6 foot tall, white, female, student at South Lakes and I feel perfectly safe and comfortable. My classes are great, the administration is wonderful and I have to say that I absolutely love South Lakes and would regret going anywhere else because I know that if I did, I would end up being one of those "daddy bought me a new lexus" girls who get nervous if any person of another race were even in the same room as them. And to all of you who are scared of diversity, this is America folks. Not all of us are just rich white people here and you all need to learn that.

That philosophy should get you an A, but not from your English teacher. You must be hard to spot at 16-years old, Caucasian, and 6-feet tall :-) With all the natural art talent, your school should be the county's art/music magnet school. I'm just not sure where I could park my Lexus there. Best wishes on your SOLs and AP courses!

Cappies = Crappies

Why don't everybody stay at their own school. everybody like their school. it's ok way it is.

Yes, since none of these schools are over crowded, and some will be under enrolled within 4 years, why redistrict anyone? Leave them where they are.

If there is a problem at South Lakes, then FCPS needs to fix it. They need to make South Lakes a school that attracts students. But they shouldn't fix their problem by forcing students out of their high schools and into South Lakes.

Elizabeth, it is you who sound like a bigot, prejudice against people who have more money than you have.

You might want to compare the schools we're discussing here:
[p1pe.doe.virginia.gov]

Compare South Lakes to the schools that are being forced to go, Madison, Oakton, and Herndon.

Yes, there is more violence at South Lakes, more drugs, more teacher assaults, lower scores, etc. It has nothing to do with race. No one has any problem with well behaved students of any race. I suspect that you know that. It's not about race, it's about behavior. duh.

I'm glad that you feel safe, but some at your school haven't been so lucky.

ming,

Not funny.

Of any minority group in Fairfax County, Asian-Americans standout for their dedication to learning and education. One has only to read the end-of-year announcements of the top-ranked students and the premier colleges that the Asian-Americans attend.

Your racial baiting sounds like a personal problem of a less talented student. And if you are attempting to personify Hispanic students, that ain't funny either.

theres a girl at my school (langley) who got expelled for coke and weed and got sent to south lakes and apparently she really liked it. she came back because all her friends are here, but i guess her enjoying it says a lot about a school. shes a bitch, straight up.

Gibson and Strauss are costing us all a lot of money by their ridiculous Langley boundary. People in Great Falls should get also be included - th Holly Knoll section used to go to Herndon? Are they bussing kids to Langley tht would not even be transported by FCPS to Herndon? Wiehle has it's extension now. What about the development that opens up onto 7 and Hunter Mill that is going to Langley? That is betwen the South Lakes sending area and the Madison Island. It's all BS and I guess Strauss and Gibson sold their votes on bulding the unneeded South County Middle School to keep these people happy. It's a scam to buld an addition at Langley. South Lkaes had a bad principal - now it is one of the few schools with a good one. The South Lkaes stigma has ben perpetuated by Gibson and Strauss for a decade and they are pepetuating it by not including Langley now.

To all those interested:

It is appalling that some on this forum speak about South Lakes as if it is a troubled inner-city school. South Lakes is among the top 2% of high schools in the country and maintains very strong academic and extra-curricular programs.

For those that aren't aware, South Lakes has less than a year left on a $50 million renovation and is lead by the 2006 principal of the year, Bruce Butler. Please take the time to watch the below video. This is a link to a profile on Bruce Butler. The "elite" high schools would be lucky to have a principal who cares as much or works as hard.

[www.fcps.edu]

Great post, Mr. Butler!

Jimmy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great post, Mr. Butler!


Great rebuttal, Mr. Ignorant!

incredible repartee, mr know-it-all!

How about simply, that the west county area (particularily near the Frying Pan Park area) is tired of being shoved around to different schools every 2-3 years. How stupid is that? None of these neighborhoods are ever settled. the school board continues with the same story every time "if we just do this, then everything will get fixed." 3 years down the road we will hear the same thing from the same jerks.

Well said FarSide.

I think all Fairfax County schools are good, and the kids going to them want to continue in their own school. Just leave everything the way it is,

And stop criticizing other peoples schools and hinting that people are racists.

It's good the way it is.

South County Middle School - They have a middle school too!?

South County Middle School is the intended project of many running for or on the School Board. Some people expect everyone in this county to pay for the place on an expedited basis after money was spent on Lake Braddock. What stinks about the west County boundary change process is the absolute exclusion of Langley and it's addition is a slap in the face to every taxpayer except those who any rational person would send to South lakes or Herndon instead. Every board member who allowed this without question should be recalled or voted out. The majority of Gibson'and Strauss' constituents do not benefit and we all have to pay for this.

South Lakes has IB. At other IB schools kids are enrolled in and also taking AP exams. That includes Mount Vernon also a smaller school.

Look - there is a reason that South Lakes receives a 4 from the Great Schools website (out of 10) and Oakton and Madison receive an 8/9. South Lakes has significantly more problem students, both in terms of academic achievement and behavior. And it is not surprising that people are not clamoring to go to South Lakes. And bluntly put, the entire Fairfax County school system is overrated (except for Thomas Jefferson) - none of the high schools compares to the suburban Chicago high school I attended - which, like TJ, receives a 10 out of 10 Great Schools score. It was a local school - not a magnet - and the 4 or 5 other high schools that surround it were just as good. The town I lived in had a midwestern work ethic - so lacking in the entitlement culture prevalent here. The middle (yes, the middle) of the class went to schools like Wisconsin and Indiana and Michigan. Of course, my high school wasn't very diverse, either.

I must also say to the Reston/South Lakes supporters - there clearly are parts of Reston that are not very safe, and it is directly related to the kinds of people that live in the public housing there - and yes, unfortunately, there is a racial correlation. And it is reflected in the schools as well - although the best coping defense is to teach kids to avoid the hip hop rip-raff like the plague. I know this the old fashioned way - I drive a few miles to run on the trails in Reston - about 5 times a week. Run 7-10 miles in the community and you get to know it up close - and see a lot. And this is not a Reston bash - the trails are excellent - with no danger from vehicular traffic. And clearly, my experiences vary considerably based on where I run - I find it astounding the hassles I often get from young black males near the Reston community center area - the Snake Den trail to those who know - invariably drinking and just acting disrespectful. I say astounding, because when I was a serious athlete at the national level I ran mostly black dominated events - generally we were among the most disciplined and tough minded group of people - and find it laughable now that I get harassed because of my race and penchant for exercise - but make no mistake about it - the threat is there - which I feel somewhat in control over, because, while still in my mid-40's - I can really still move if I have to - and I have at times really ripped through the crowd to avoid trouble. And lest one think I am exaggerating, I have run all over the world - and in some really tough neighborhoods (Watts, thank you, outside the LA Coliseum, south Atlanta, DC, West Philly, slums in Paris etc.) and am pretty fairly tuned to dangerous characters - certain areas of Reston just put my antennae up. Fairfax County police officers I know concur with my sense of apprehension. While I certainly am cautious about prejudging anyone because of race and the like - let's not kid ourselves, there are problems at South Lakes and at Reston - and to be blunt - people move to the suburbs to relieve themselves of these problems (people of all races by the way) - the perceptions to a considerable extent are real. And Elizabeth - don't run on certain Reston trails alone - ever - this isn't my advice alone, but those of a number of professional level female runners that live in and near Reston - they are all too aware of the danger. I have volunteered to run with them on occasion for just this reason.