Why is Langley high school always held safe from redistricting? Students can never be moved out (although they can be moved IN to Langley) so they are taken from the Loudoun county line all the way inside the beltway to attend Langley. Why is that? Anyone know? What makes them immune from redistricting?

And why is South County getting a middle school? It's not needed according to enrollments or enrollment projections. Is it?

Langley - because they have lost of money

rodney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley - because they have lost of money


The only people that want to pay for that are the ones that should be moved. Do the vast majority of people in Langley boundaries want this? NO. They are just as confused as evryone else. It uses bond money and money from the operating fund for stuff with shorter useful life. The county gives extra money to FCPS for the debt service. Because the Langley administrators allowed about 200 dump trucks of fill illegally dumped on the property [caught by Mclean Citizens Association] the addition was delayed and people were told the delay was a run-off situation. But nt why...thought it was just normal site issue not a boondoggle. The county decided not to fine FCPS or to hold the admins or contractor personally liable so the removal cost is coming out of the discretionary funds for the addition.

As for other issues, many people would like later start times or better bus arrival times. Cooper [on the way to Lngley] for many kids does not share busses.

Maybe the principal wants more kids because he gets a wider pool for the football team. Langley is an older unrenovated building - except for the lack of walls the old South Lakes was nicer. People would rather get the bathrooms done and basics handled just like people do in houses.

If you haven't read this posting, please do so:

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: September 25, 2007 11:19PM

Not everyone is going to lack what quantum says; however, I think that it is the most truthful and revealing commentary on the real problems in this part of the county. Kudos to you, quantum, for your sincere and forthright comments.

The bottom line is that we have choice--perhaps not where we live or what school we attend. But we can choose to better ourselves and make do with what we have. Or, we can hangout with "gangs" or "losers." We all need to stop pointing fingers at others and look inwardly and repair.

Let my clarify my perspective - I don't think it helpful to criticize the element of South Lakes High School that gives it its reputation (one can argue how deserved it may be) in a way that bespeaks of meanness. But by the same token, we also must speak to accountability - and in a blunt way that people are not accustomed to doing.

And let's be blunt when it comes to South Lakes. It is not just the increased (by a fair amount) incidents of student violence, truancy, drop out rate and the like that bother parents. These elements are verifiable and likely worst in the concrete than as reflected by statistics, for the simple fact that most high school systems do a far less than creditable job of tracking drop-outs - and the drop out rate is higher than credited. There are things that happen in South Lakes that just shake the sensibilities of suburban parents - who, let's face it, are by and large are on the mission - that is - the most important thing in their lives, is to educate their children to survive and prosper in a knowledge based economy. And suffice to say that the average single mother 8a housing recipient in the South Lakes area is, even if interested in the "mission", likely very limited in her ability to fulfill it - such are the constraints that questionable life choices and long hardened cultural impediments impose. In any event, what are the events that shake the sensibilities? Well, at Langston Hughes middle school a few years back (across the driveway from South Lakes), school authorities detained an 8th grader for pimping a stable of 8th grade girls - with his base of operations the bus and the schoolyard. And the boy and his charges and their "customers' were doing their best renditions of a gangsta rap video. at middle school prices too boot. Is this the school's fault? No - they acted in my view responsibly and quickly in dealing with the issue - but really, what parent wants their children exposed to this? It is common sense - work like crazy to afford a 600 hundred thousand dollar house in the burbs, and have your kids exposed to this? What kind of childhood is that? Put another way, what possible value is there for kids and their parents to move from Oakton to Madison and the like? There isn't any - it is almost a complete negative - except that it helps the school system hide the poor scores and discipline problems - as the Parents United Supreme Court case reflects - whites and asians are valuable commodities in the public school game and can paper over lots of problems. This last comment might raise the ire of some - really, now - think Seattle and Louisville went all the way to the Supreme Court for trivial reasons? no - their racial assignment plans are crucial to helping the administrators keep their jobs and avoid the consequence of having a few failing and dismal schools in their system.

I actually understand the school board's position here - if they don't rezone, the problems at South Lakes will only get worse - they know that their chances of undoing the cultural impediments and lack of appreciation for education in some of the South Lakes homes are limited at best, and transferring a whole slug (I believe Stu Gibson referred in a PTO meeting as an 'influx of well prepared students") is really the only practical way to reverse the decline. And they just spent a boatload of money on improvements at South Lakes - likely not needed wth declining enrollments the next 10 years. But let's be blunt - again - it is being done on the backs of the transferor parents and kids - without much to gain other than a mere badge of social sacrifice. I await this kind of honesty from the school board.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Langley high school always held safe from
> redistricting? Students can never be moved out
> (although they can be moved IN to Langley) so they
> are taken from the Loudoun county line all the way
> inside the beltway to attend Langley. Why is
> that? Anyone know? What makes them immune from
> redistricting?
>
> And why is South County getting a middle school?
> It's not needed according to enrollments or
> enrollment projections. Is it?


The school board knows that would be a nasty battle if they changed the Langley boundary. It's unjust that it's not included with the proposed changes.

Quantum.... brilliant post.

Thanks for nailing the issue perfectly.

The potential transfer population is 100% behind you.

Go the meetings and give em an earful.

props to quantum indeed. thanks for at least providing background information from experience instead of throwing out numbers or accusations.

that prostitution ring was in the late nineties, by the way.



for some reason though it does seem like there is a media bias against south lakes. last football season McLean players were suspended for a sex party at an open house. like... one big orgy.

a similar event occurred at another area school, though the name escapes me at the moment.

i also feel like some people don't give enough credit to certain aspects of our school. Every year the leadership program chooses a major fundraiser. Last year we raised over $25,000 for a student battling cancer. Our peer mentoring program is currently serving as a model to kickstart other programs at FCPS schools. Tuesday, West Potomac had a rep sit in on our meeting taking note of how it is run.

Why can't the school system put a program into South Lakes that will attract new students? That's what they did in Montgomery County and it worked. If they make it attractive, no one will be forced to go there.

Another alternative is to begin to close South Lakes. Within 4 years, all of the students can be absorbed by the other high schools, with no overcrowding. Look at the projected numbers, 4 years out, and you'll see it.

To those who mentioned that Langley has money and that makes it immune from redistricting, all the areas that will be redistricted into South Lakes also have money. The Madison 'island' is the home to at least one Congressman and many more wealthy people, including attornies. They will put up considerable opposition to this redistricting. As will Oakton parents and the well off folks in the Reston North End.

Buckle your seat belts,it's going to be a bumpy ride, after the election. Interesting that there will be NO discussion of the boundary changes until all the democrats have been re-elected.

Jane Strauss will not permit a Langley High School Boundary change process. Same for Gibson. If any Aldrin people get moved into South Lakes then they should Domino Langley people into Herndon plus some to South Lakes. Everyone in the county is paying for this junk. Everyone at those boundary meetings should raise their hands in break-out rooms to support including Langley in this boundary process. Everyone in the process should email all board members ASAP.

It's a county-wide school division and behave in that fashion. If people got equal and fair treatment there would be no cause for complaint or justification for lawsuits. This is way too blatent...

Why would Stu Gibson agree to not moving Langley students into South Lakes? It would benefit South Lakes, where his voters are. If he has made a deal with Janie Strauss to not touch Langley students, what does he get out of this deal?

Community meetings never change anything, but people should still let them know how unfair it is to never include Langley in any discussions of boundaries.

Especially for South Lakes, this school boundary argument reminds me of the "urban flight" (pc version) during the 60s, but this is Fairfax County's version.

This post is a little off-topic from South Lakes and the proposed Western Redistricting but...

I live in the Alexandria portion of the Hayfield district and am frustrated at, as we all know, how this school is lackluster and how recent rezonings involving South County are not helping. Because the School Board did not base their projections for South County correctly in the first place, this rezoning only 2 years after SoCo has opened is ridiculous.

I want to voice my blunt complaint at how the School Board says they want to maintain socioeconomic balance and equality during rezonings, but don't. In the recent rezoning for 07-08, the majority of South County's few less desirable neighborhoods of Lorton (all within 5 min. of SoCo and 15 min. from Hayfield) were brought over to Hayfield, with the infamous Hagel Circle being the only obvious undesirable neighborhood left in South County's territory. It is a fact that most of Hayfield's troubled children always come from Lorton and not its immediately surrounding community of Alexandria. I personally believe that South County should serve and reflect the population of its own community, while Hayfield should do the same.

It is projected that Hayfield's F/R rate will increase and SoCo's will decrease. It seems that they're trying to destine Hayfield for failure and pad South County with more wealth while appeasing criticism with just keeping Hagel. FCPS politics as always.

I forgot to add, I don't think SoCo needs a middle school because Hayfield was sufficiently undercrowded when SoCo was overcrowded. Sufficient capacity does exist if balanced correctly.

Lake Braddock should be used for some of the Silverbrook South County nighborhoods. Braddock had millions in renovations as did Hayfield plus it got an addition. Hayfield should have it's own middle school GT Center. Why do we have to pay for GTC busses? The program is huge now - put them back at their own schools.

In each case nothing was done about GT which takes up space that should be HS2:MS1 in proportionality. 7/8,9/10/11,/12. I remember when they opened Lorton Station yet continues bussing Hagel Circle to Halley so people who don't need resources would still get stuff at Halley.

Grant Hill went to SL. His mom gave the key note speech when I graduated from Robinson in 99' it was fucking retarded. Seriously though if you are that worried about where your kids go just pick a program that your dream school has that SL doesnt. Sign Language is a good one.

Yes, FCPS has allowed students to go to other schools if the high school they attend doesn't offer the program or course that they want, as long as they can provide their own transportation. That helps people who can afford cars, but not the rest.I suspect that will end with South Lakes.

Yes, Hayfield got screwed on boundaries with South County. I don't know why the Hayfield school board rep agreed to it. It just made problems at Hayfield worse.

South Lakes has sign language.

Let's go back to basics. If you look at the Fairfax county map of affordable housing, you will find areas that have lots...and areas that have none. This is the basis for SL problem. Reston has been getting more than its fair share of affordable housing, as is Alexandria. Fairfax county has been unevenly placing affordable housing throughout the county, in effect creating the problems they now have with the unevenness in the school populations.

This should stop.

However, looking at the numbers, SL doesn't have more affordable housing than Westfields, for example. But Westfield has over 3000 kids, so that amount is more readily absorbed than at SL, with only 1300 kids.

What you people don't get is that SL numbers will look much better when the redistricting occurs, so housing values will not drop as feared. Really, stop whining.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2007 03:34PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Reston is a planned community. You got what you asked for in terms of affordable housing.

You've made your bed, now lie in it.

True. The people of Reston decide how their community works. They've decided. They're stuck with it.

Long ago, I went to a much tougher high school than South Lakes High School (SLHS), and my high school was considered one of the better schools in the country. Since Bruce Butler became Principal, SLHS has significantly increased its pride, performance and reputation.....justifiably.

My two kids (one now in college; other at SLHS) have had great experiences, have friends from all racial, religious and ethnic backgrounds, and laugh at cousins and friends from nearby schools who act like SLHS kids should get a purple hearts for going there. One neighborhood family moved out of Reston to ensure that their kids would go to Oakton......their eldest got beaten up twice in the first month of school.....maybe it was the kid?

If the parents and the kids who end up at SLHS give it a fair shake and participate actively, they'll have a great experience. Who knows? Maybe those kids will be part of the '65% of students who applied to UVA who were offered admission; average for all FCPS high schools is 25% percent.', as happened to the '07 graduating class, or the notably high number of SLHS kids who are selected for the Service Academies.

In the meantime, please try not to whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine, up-and-coming school.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True. The people of Reston decide how their
> community works. They've decided. They're stuck
> with it.


Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.

SLHS Padre...

perhaps the Oakton people would appreciate if you did not whine and slime the kids (and community) of this fine school

you freekin hypocrit

My Word!!??:

You have a thin skin for someone who tosses out barbs so effortlessly.

I didn't slam Oakton HS or its community, but noted that someone who fled rough-tough South Lakes/Reston still had a tough encounter. If it had been SLHS, it would have made the TV news, I bet.

My point is: don't flee or savage something before you take a fair and close look.

Affordable housing for everyone in Fairfax County, including teachers.

not thin skinned...

just like to point out the fact that SLHS whines about being criticized and then turns around and does the same to others.... hypocrits

hypocrites is hypocrites...the criticism wasn't against Oakton (some of my best friends' kids go to Oakton). It was against behavior based on ignorance and fear, not reality. Word up.

A child got beaten twice during the first month of school? Maybe it was the kid? Isn't that akin to saying to a rape victim that she shouldn't have been so attractive. Offensive when analogized this way, huh? And the analogy is hardly inapposite. You should rethink your statement.

Look, the statistics in terms of violence and other incidents at SLHS dwarf schools such as Oakton that are much larger and frankly not without problems themselves. And the incidents of violence by and large are committed by a very identifiable group. Sure, it helps if you train you kid to keep your head down and stay out of the way of trouble, but not every teenager is going to be able to develop those instincts and in such cases will be a far more likely target for the group of predators (not big, but significant) that exist at South Lakes. And don't get me wrong - from what I can see, the school does a Herculean job of trying to keep the peace. But make no mistake about, the behavior of a group of low income, mostly fatherless, conform largely to the existing stereotype kids causes a lot of problems, and while you may disagree with parents who want to avoid South Lakes, it is a stretch to state the parents not wishing their children to transfer to Oakton are irrational - they are not.

And to the point about the new influx of kids raising the tide - well, that will happen. But the dislocation and adjustment period is neither trivial or short. Yes, the school administrators obviously welcome the influx of white and asian kids that will obtain - they generally behave well, don't require teaching to the test in terms of SOL's and the like because they are bright and well prepared enough to learn such material incidentally, and they make the school's statistics, including parent participation, graduation, SAT scores and the like more desirable -- way more desirable. But there is a long adjustment period, and make no mistake about, the benefits that obtained by the school are accomplished on the backs of the transferors, who receive very little in return, unless, of course, one puts undue weight on the shibboleth of diversity, which frankly provides little empirical value. (And Oakton is plenty diverse, it just doesn't have as many blacks, which is the code word in any event for diversity). And don't take the teaching to the test issue likely - the non AP kids stuck in regular classes will be bored and will not prosper from the necessity to get lesser kids through on the SOL tests - it is the way of the world - teachers teach to the middle of the class and the lower the middle goes so goes the class.

Again, I would love to see someone in officialdom talk so bluntly and truthfully. But that will not happen - so such talk is reserved for message boards.

HooTribe said:
>>>Actually, the problem is that only part of Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back the Madison island and the north of Reston, we would then have all of the planned community, not just a portion of it.<<<

Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna. Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna schools, play with Vienna little league, and are part of the Vienna community.

The part of Oakton who will be forced into South Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing to do with any planned community.

Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If your argument is that Reston people should go to Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the north end should have known that was the deal before they bought in that neighborhood. If you want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok, but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it. They're happy where they are, they're schools aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside their community. Let Vienna people stay in the Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high school.

Great post, quantum!

All readers should read carefully:

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: October 02, 2007 08:58PM

This discussion is one of the most articulate and well reasoned that I have seen in this thread.

Why do some areas of the county get more consideration in boundaries and school construction than others?

One problem is that the politicians build additions at school locations based on politics not geography or where people live. It would have made more sense to build additions at for example Centreville instead of Westfields. Now after the thing is built the school board is saying Westfields is too big for student participation - well they did it so live with it. A solution would be to use the space to stick in an academy rather than have it at Chantilly . Each middle school should have it's own GT center - why bus them around? The Langley money should not be spent.

Converting Carson to a high school [addition etc] and turn Westfields into a secondary school? People actually live near Carson. These are ideas for exploration. As for including Herndon in this boundary process, the Alabama ave area goes to McNair/Herndon/Herndon. Shifting that to South Lakes would not be a wise thing to do considering the the amount of low income housing in South Lakes current boundaries. Not moving anything in the gerrymandered Langley boundary really distorts this boundary process and makes a mockery of the process...

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe said:
> >>>Actually, the problem is that only part of
> Reston goes to South Lakes. By just adding back
> the Madison island and the north of Reston, we
> would then have all of the planned community, not
> just a portion of it.<<<
>
> Ah, not exactly, the Madison island is in Vienna.
> Everyone there has a Vienna address. It's never
> been any part of Reston. They all feed to Vienna
> schools, play with Vienna little league, and are
> part of the Vienna community.
>
> The part of Oakton who will be forced into South
> Lakes don't live in Reston either. They live in
> Oakton, Oak Hill and Chantilly. They have nothing
> to do with any planned community.
>
> Yes, the north end of Reston is in Reston. If
> your argument is that Reston people should go to
> Reston schools, I get that. But folks in the
> north end should have known that was the deal
> before they bought in that neighborhood. If you
> want all of Reston in the Reston high school, ok,
> but leave all those other neighborhoods out of it.
> They're happy where they are, they're schools
> aren't overcrowded and there's no reason for them
> to disrupted and forced to go to a school outside
> their community. Let Vienna people stay in the
> Vienna high school, let Oakton stay in the Oakton
> high school, and Reston kids in Reston's high
> school.


Neen,

Glad to see that there are some of us who can have a calm, rational conversation about the issues.

I do think that all the Reston kids should go to South Lakes - it would provide for more socio-economic balance and promote the area school. As for the Madison island - I am aware that it has a P.O. box address of Vienna, but looking at the map, it is part of and/or close to Reston. I know it is hard to change when people consider themselves part of the Vienna area, but driving through that area (which is above the toll road), it should have been with South Lakes all along - just my opinion. I would also point out that there are small portions of our area (just south of Rt. 7) that currently go to Langley, which also should be going to South Lakes.

The Oakton community is the one that seems more complex. While parts of the Oakton area (north western) are much closer to South Lakes than Oakton, this by itself doesn't mean they should have to switch. The biggest issue is the high number of students at Westfield and the low number at South Lakes. This impacts the programs offerred at both schools - not everyone may be able to participate at Westfield and not enough programs (too few students) at SL. It would be simpler to make the change between these two schools: the northern part of Westfield connects to the SL area.

I understand that no one wants to change, but with a good principal, $50 million rennovation, more students, and the focus of the school board, South Lakes will only grow stronger.

Quantam:

I believe that you misunderstand the main thrust of what SLHS supporters are saying, and -- in particular - what I meant about the kid who got roughed up at Oakton.

First, "maybe it was the kid?" could have been too flippant, but I wasn't suggesting that he deserved it or that he was particularly vulnerable. Rather, I was saying that fights, bullying, and conflict happen in schools other than SLHS, but get highlighted at the latter. The SLHS administration's commitment to responsibility and security has paid off, and most SLHS parents feel very comfortable with their kids staying after school, going to events at the school at nights and weekends, and getting to/from school without a Blackwater/Dyncorp escort.

It's the consistent theme that SLHS is a war zone -- and I have heard this from a lot of non-SLHS parents and adults -- that I reject. It just ain't true.

Second, I didn't say that parents who want to send their kids to Oakton (or some HS other than South Lakes) are necessarily irrational. Oakton, Madison, Westfield are all excellent schools and it makes sense that parents seek to have their children attend those schools.

I just think they should take a look at the reality of what SLHS is, and then make up their mind. Don't be misled by the stereotypes and sporadic incidents that have fed those stereotypes. South Lakes is an excellent school in one of the best public school districts in the country. It's not without problems and challenges, but the stereotypes neither fit, nor help.

Hey! Come to a SLHS home football game, and see for yourself. We'll probably lose, but it is a peaceful, energetic social gathering of kids and community, and has been for years. That's the reality.

SLHS Padre - I have been to a South Lakes game - my daughter attends Thomas Jefferson and that team has had the thrill of getting stomped by South Lakes - not an unusual situation with the TJ football team. And the football games are indeed enjoyable and relatively safe events.

But again, make no mistake about it - the incidents of violence at SLHS are orders of magnitude higher than at surrounding schools, and if adjusted for the smaller size of SLHS's population, are even more significant than the raw data suggests in terms of day to day experience. This data is relatively the same year after year after year. And the data doesn't really delineate the scope of the problem, either - it doesn't relate the lower order disciplinary problems committed by the same hard core group of people that have significant socialization problems that erodes the environment for learning.

The problem is real, it exists and it undermines the credibility of those who deign to support the school to trivialize it. And while I think it unfair to unduly criticize the school itself - by all accounts the administration darn well knows the problem before them and do the best they can to contain it - it is not a topic that should be anything but discussed openly - even the stigmatization that might incur with such discussions, as painful as they are to certain afflicted groups of people, tend to have salutary effects.

I know at least a few people who live in the north part of Oakton that want to come to SLHS because it is much closer for them. Not coincidently, these are people who have had past experience with SL, so are not afraid of it. The only people here who are bashing SL are those who know nothing about it.

On the point about the north of Westfields going to SL, that looks good on the map, but that is the area with large amounts of affordable housing, so this would not help SL.

On the point about Reston "lying in our own bed", I take exception. I am glad to live in a place that values diversity, but the reality is that too much affordable housing tips the balance away from diversity. Fairfax county, not Reston, determines where affordable housing should go in the county--they should make sure it is evenly spread out, not just for the surrounding community, but for the people who live in the affordable housing. They should not be in effect segregated and forced to go to Title one elementary schools, which is a direct effect of Fairfax county current affordable housing practices.

Seeing as diversity is not going away, and there will be more of it in the future, I doubt the Oakton enclave will last much longer. Get used to it folks!

"Fairfax county, not Reston, determines where affordable housing should go in the county--they should make sure it is evenly spread out..."

Oh, give me a break. The affordable housing has been there for 20+ years, Stonegate and the like. What's been happening over the past 10 years is that families have been avoiding the SLHS area like the plague, thereby magnifying the problems associated with it.

Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10 years. Answer - NONE.

Leave the boundry alone, if it needs to be adjusted make a date of 2025. That way anyone either in district or choosing to move in to district will know that come 2025 there MAY or MAY NOT be a redistricting depending on population. Why 2025??? That is 18 school years from now all infants born this year will be able to go to and finish where they are districted now. This should also include new born siblings if they choose to attend a school that may be rezoned in 2025.

Secondly it also gives those that want to move ample time to get out of the area and sell their house while thay can. Will an Oakton house lose value if it is re zoned to SL. You bet. And onyone that wnats to argue that point is clueless to property vales in the area. Does it affect me you bet, I ahve been to the meeting and will continue to go. We already ahve an attorney on board and ready for the court case.

For those that don't know the facts Oakton is not over crowded as of school year 2007/08 they are minus 38. In addition to that due to construction limitation in the county (to include the Oakton district) it is estimated that the school population will decrease by an additional 11% in the next three years.

Let it be:

Does Oakton have trailers?

What high school and middle school do the people who live in Berryland Farms go to?

South Lakes Pyramid Parent - I concede that some Oakton, Madison parents may simply be afraid of South Lakes without adequately looking into the facts. And I concede that with work and diligence it is possible to get a good education at SLHS, particularly with regard to the 30 or so that get an IB diploma at SLHS. But it all depends on one's point of view. As I mentioned in an earlier post, all Fairfax County High Schools, save for Thomas Jefferson, which is in a class by itself both nationally and regionally, pale in comparison to the regular suburban high school I attended in a suburb of Chicago (attended 25 years ago - it is likely even better than when I attended). And the five or six schools surrounding the school I attended are equally good - there is a reason that all of these schools receive a 10 out of 10 rating (the same as TJ) on the Great Schools rating system - they are that good - better than Oakton's score of "8" - and Madison's score of "9", and Herndon and Chantilly's "7", and considerably, if not standard deviations better than SLHS' "4". Say it doesn't make any difference to an individual student? Maybe, given all the factors at hand. But I came from a single mother home, with very, very little resources, and went to college on an athletic scholarship at one of the few schools in the top 10 USNWR rankings that give athletic scholarships - and I was nearly as well or as well prepared as the matriculants who went to Philips Academy, Andover, and the like. I never, ever felt over my head. This type of experience is the standard, frankly, by which upwardly mobile people who have lived somewhere other than the entitlement based culture in DC seek and wish to obtain. And the blunt truth is that the school I attended (and those like it) are not very diverse, but they did and do have a serious approach towards education and most importantly, they have a significant lack of distractions and lesser students such such as those those found at SLHS.

One group at SLHS averages about 880 on the verbal and math portions of the SAT. I guess one could say kudos for them for even taking it, and for the high school diploma (i.e., not dropping out) that it likely implies. But it takes around at least a 1000 to be able to do meaningful (and I do mean meaningful) college work, and a school like SLHS, for reasons I understand, does spend an inordinate amount of resource, time and focus on improving these kids - and frankly, on those that don't even take the SAT's or those that drop out - kids the stats don't reach and thus make the challenges appear less significant than they actually are.

This is not intended to be a rant at South Lakes - from what I have seen, the school does an admirable job with the "material" they have to work with. But it does serve as a reminder that in addition to spending money on buildings and diversity and other feel good programs, the school would be well advised to, if it wants to enhance acceptance by those compelled to transfer, focus on a level of academic excellence for better students in a way not typical of Fairfax County Schools (and yes, bluntly that means mostly whites and asians). And in so doing, they must (not an easy thing to do for many educators that also are fond of social engineering) live with the de facto apartheid that such an approach will create, and resist the urge to water down the more academically challenging programs in the name of diversity. Great academic programs that truly challenge will do more to ease transitional issues than anything else.

Quantum,
I do get what you are saying. I am of the opinion that, while statistics do matter for many reasons, and should be taken seriously at an organizational level to make changes, they matter much less on an individual basis.

I assume my kids will be in the IB program while in High school. The IB program has national grading standards, meaning the grading is intended to be consistent across schools, etc. I assume from this that my kids will likely get the same education in South Lakes that they would in any IB school, especially within FFX county. Apparently, colleges think this too, or they wouldn't be accepting a lot of SL students.

So, if your kid is in the regular classes currently at SL, they are at a disadvantage. However, the balance will change with redistricting that will add over 50% more students to SL. Obviously, that is going to change the statistics a lot in the regular classes. Aside from that, if your kid is in Honors or GT, they will be doing IB in high school, and will get the benefits of that, no matter what high school in FFX county they are in.

Also, my kids actually like the diversity in the schools, believe it or not! and even though they have friends in neighboring schools, they do not want to go there. It really does give them something that kids from Oakton don't get. I like that part. and no, diversity doesn't just mean "black". It's also the kids from other cultures that they interact with on a daily basis. They really do get a different perspective that I never had, but I appreciate. I think it really does teach them to be accepting of many types of differences, not just racial, but cultural, talent, etc.

I'm not bashing people who want to stay at Oakton for whatever reason, but I guess I do think it is small-minded to think that the trends of our society in general, greater diversity, etc, will never touch them, and shouldn't, because they bought a house in a particular neighborhood, thereby giving them the right to stay in their enclave in perpetuity. Change happens!

South Lakes Pyramid parent~

It's clear that you are rationalizing and don't want to understand the facts that quantum has articulated so well.

I have attended more government-sponsored "diversity" classes than most people. It's true, what quantum has said. For your stasis, it is really good that you and your children can rationalize your situations--I sincerely mean this statement. It surely does no good to lament one's situation and blame the environment.

I am a believer in the melting pot concept. Some where along the line this concept has changed to "diversity." I believe in the equality of all people. But it really does boil down to nature and nurture. And, let's face it: some subcultures are abhorrent--diversity training is not going to change that fact.

JB:

Um, what facts, exactly? I didn't see any stated, aside from test scores of "some kids" at the school. Does having "some" kids at a school that score 880 say anything about how my kid is going to score? Not likely.

Especially given the other facts posted recently about SL, like 65% acceptance at UVA, and the fact that the number of merit scholars was the similar for many FFX schools, including SL. These numbers actually matter.

Facts...
When South Lakes is compared to all other schools in the boundary study (Madison, Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon):

1) South Lakes has a highest failure rate on SOL tests

2) South Lakes has highest security and safety violations

3) South Lakes has lowest SAT scores

4) South Lakes has lowest percentage students moving on to four year colleges

It's all on the FCPS web site

None of these statistics are surprising given the current demographics and the small number enrolled in the school. And, on the SAT scores, Westfields is only marginally higher and Herndon not at all.

This still doesn't refute my points on individual achievement and the kids in the IB program. Let's look at averages for kids in those programs across schools, if we want to compare apples to apples.

Also, let's estimate what the scores would be assuming redistricting-- that will give a more accurate picture of the school kids would actually experience once they are redistricted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2007 06:02PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Also, let's estimate what the scores would be
> assuming redistricting-- that will give a more
> accurate picture of the school kids would actually
> experience once they are redistricted.

South Lakes Pyramid parent,

I find all this very interesting and I hope you can answer a question for me:

So, you feel as a South Lakes Parent it is okay to move students from one school, Oakton?, to South Lakes (or any other failing school) to help even out the schools test scores?

Is this fair to the students or the community they would be coming from?

Is this something the School Board does to keep schools with not so great test scores to better them?

I find it a little disturbing that “some kids” would be used this way. Am I the only one that feels this way?

> >
>
>
> Is this something the School Board does to keep
> schools with not so great test scores to better
> them?
>
>
As I stated in my previous posts, the School Board catered to overzealous parents by changing the boundaries. One of the results is the lower test scores at certain schools.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Let's see... what other HS exhibited such a
> dramatic drop in enrollment over the past 10
> years. Answer - NONE.


I would say Marshall High School got hosed in the 90's by certain neighborhoods along the Rt 7 corridor west of the Toll Road. One of the reasons is that those homeowners convinced the school board that they did not want their children attending a school with a vocational center. (I don't know who they expect to repair their Mercedes?)
As a result, this area is now Langley and McLean boundaries. Marshall's enrollment is now about 1100 students - the smallest high school in the county. Kudos to the administration at Marshall for keeping the school competitive academically.

I think there are many factors at play in why Reston has lost enrollment. I know several people who, instead of trying to deal with RA on renovating their homes, simply moved up to a nicer homes elsewhere. The aging of Reston has not been graceful, and it seems that RA;s design review process is intimidating to many people and they need to make the process more friendly and flexible if they want people to stay.

To ...., first of all, SL is not a "failing school". SAT scores are quite respectable, and I know many successful kids coming out of it. Secondly, I could turn your argument right around and ask if it is fair that Reston takes on so much of the county's burden of affordable housing, allowing the folks of Oakton and Great Falls to continue their oblivion to the world around them.

Why does anyone think that the school board will suddenly focus on South Lakes now when they haven't before? What would this 'focus' accomplish? Yes, renovations are nice, it's good that they finally got doors on all the classrooms, but few parents care about their whoopy new restoration.

Twenty years ago Marshall was under enrolled. They look kids out of Madison and sent them to Marshall. It made NO difference, Marshall remains under enrolled. The land is so valuable, the school system would be very wise to close Marshall. With thousands of empty seats in FC schools, it shouldn't be a problem to put those students elsewhere.

Berryland neighborhood, out Vale Road, attends Thoreau Middle school and Madison high school.

The IB program was supposed to stop white flight. It didn't. Parents don't want IB. The majority want the AP program as evidenced by ALL the top schools choosing AP over IB.

Yes, Reston is messed up, with an HOA that makes it very unfriendly to families with children. But why do families in Vienna and Oakton have to pay for that?