Thomas,
Assessments are done by comparing homes in your area, they do not consider schools. I guarantee that people will pay more for the houses in good school districts, assessments aside. Assessments are rarely accurate for sale value of a home.

Many people will not look at homes in Dogwood district. Period. I'm sure you are aware of that. But they will look at a house across the street in Fox Mill. So stop inventing arguments that even you know to be false.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You asked how much it is worth. One family I know
> spent $300,000 to move from the South Lakes
> district to the Oakton district. They didn't want
> to move, they'd lived in Reston for 10 years and
> loved it. But their children were approaching
> middle school and they did not want them in Hughes
> and South Lakes. It was a HUGE sacrifice for a
> hard working family but they paid the extra
> $300,000 to move to Oakton district. Mom had to go
> back to work, Dad won't be retiring when he had
> hoped, but they did it for their kids. Now,just 2
> years later, they're going to be thrown back into
> South Lakes. They did move quite far enough, and
> part of that was because they really like Reston,
> just not the schools.

This sounds like a personal problem and probably one of the dumbest decisions I've heard on this entire board. If you are a student coming from a middle class family you are going to do just as well and get into the same college from South Lakes as you would have from Oakton, Westfield, or Madison. The problems with test scores and safety violations lie with the lower-income students. The middle class children are not affected. I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this concept.

Forgive me while I wipe my eyes with a big boo hoo.

Neen: You are a purveyor of negative, and your oft-stated, erroneous premise is that SLHS and Reston have no good public schools. There are so many kids who have succeeded and excelled at the elementary, middle and high school level that I find it ludicrous that you continue to cast this image of doomed, marooned, stranded families. Your universe must be so small and self-referential, b/c I know few of the people you mention, and those that I do are not in Reston, but have these strange preconceptions.

This week, SLHS grads (07) who attend MIT and Princeton, respectively, weighed in to confirm that they were thriving in their freshman years and to note that they find the SLHS bashing befuddling. Madison, the SLHS junior, also is doing "pretty, pretty good", to quote Larry David. There are a lot of other such kids, and they can testify on their own....and often do on this discussion.

So, I am sure you'll continue your supercilious bashing -- tossing the occasional note of bathos -- but it just does not add up to reality. That's not a whine, just a rebuttal to your consistent inaccuracies.

>>>The middle class children are not affected. I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this concept.<<<

That's a little bit hard for us to believe that our children are not effected by the other children in the same school.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
> Assessments are done by comparing homes in your
> area, they do not consider schools. I guarantee
> that people will pay more for the houses in good
> school districts, assessments aside. Assessments
> are rarely accurate for sale value of a home.
>
> Many people will not look at homes in Dogwood
> district. Period. I'm sure you are aware of that.
> But they will look at a house across the street in
> Fox Mill. So stop inventing arguments that even
> you know to be false.

Once again the absolute ignorance of this poster is on display. Virginia's constitution requires assessments to reflect fair market value. If you look at the assessment sheets on the County web site the actual sales of the property will be reported.

Assessments can be 6-9 months behind the market but generally in FFX they are acurate within 5%.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The differences in SATs are 50 points? That's a
> pretty big difference, between a 950 and 1000, or
> 1450 and 1500.

Every admissions officer at every college will tell you that less than 50 points is not significant.

We have our first bid - $100,000 for an extra 50 points on the SAT

Any one else?

More Later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 03:41AM by Thomas More.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of this talk about a magnet school is a waste
> of time. There are currently only 373 open seats
> betweeen all of the schools in the boundary study,
> accounting for the extra room at South Lakes and
> the overages at Chantilly and Westfield. That's
> not much room for a magnet school. Redistricting
> will either happen or not. Election outcomes
> influence this greatly.
>
> All of this talk about IB/AP is pointless. They're
> both good. If South Lakes does not implement AP,
> pupil placement is an option that will be
> exercised and this will defeat the purpose of
> redistricting. It's that simple.
>
> Vienna is very nice!
So another wrench thrown into the pupil placement for AP issue. When I read the provisions for pupil placement on the FCPS website, it appears to say that if one is going to pupil place for AP or another subject that is not taught in the base school, then one has to be pupil placed at the closest school geographically. So someone wanting to keep their kids at Oakton, and using the AP pupil placement as a method, may actually end up at Chantilly or Herndon, depending upon where they live. It would make sense to stay put, but they may play hardball since so many will be attempting to pupil place.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>The number of teachers assigned a school is
> the product of the number of kids in the school.
> There are other factors but it starts there.
>
> With profound underenrollment, such as we have at
> South Lakes, they had to drop a significant number
> of classes, e.g. ASL as a language class,
> economics was dropped, Advanced accounting is a
> on-line course. Other parents can list other
> courses that Oakton has but our kids don't.
>
> I also know that underenrollment is one reason
> that the kid with the reading problem was being
> remediated by a science teacher instead of a
> teacher certified in reading problems.<<<
>
> All of that could be changed. Stu could get extra
> money for South Lakes so that they could have more
> teachers and more classes. I'm sure that voters
> would find that preferable to redistricting.
> Every class at South Lakes could have 20 students,
> or even fewer. That's up to the school board to
> allocate funds. Small schools can have some real
> advantages, depending on who is representing their
> needs.

But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for example, would do the same thing there in terms of class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale. For example, if they were to take either Fox Mill or Crossfield, the band program would stand to lose anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that mnay, then they lose their assistant band director, which then costs them the class piano class, classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory Class. Of course, if they move one of the Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up for moving the others out, that would help in terms of numbers. But I've heard those people have fought moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they will fight it again.

People, due to the overwheming response from the public there will not be any redistricting this year. I can assure I am all for moving people out of Chantilly/Westfield/Herndon and Oakton. However I think that you all have made your point very clear and well known. It is in the best interest of the county if we just let this topic cool down for another year.

I will continue to try and screw the folks in those school districts if given the chance.

Thanks for all your support Stu.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>We've spoken to the school board staff since
> they've been through this before. They say its
> always contentious yet it always works out in the
> end<<<
>
> First, what else would they say? Second, what is
> school board staff? The school board has a staff?
> Or did you mean facilities staff? Of course
> those who support boundary changes will tell you
> that it always works out. The fact is, it doesn't
> always work. It never worked at Marshall. They've
> never gotten their enrollment over 1,300 after
> forcing many Vienna families to go there, or
> trying to force them. It didn't work. It didn't
> work at Mount Vernon either, where they did a
> beautiful renovation and it's still 792 under
> enrolled with projects that it will 1,000 under
> enrolled in 4 years. Higher income families have
> options and they exercise them.
>
> But you might be right, enrollment could be up in
> 10 years. But I don't see how they're going to
> get anything close to 700 new students even 5
> years out. If people won't initially go to South
> Lakes, their neighbors 5 years out won't either.
> Unless they make South Lakes more attractive to
> parents and students, (not facilities, no one
> cares, but academically attractive) BEFORE they
> redistrict, the boundary change is doomed. A
> critical mass must appear and they won't. Without
> the critical mass, there is no hope of convincing
> others to attend.
>
> I have no idea why the staff thought this
> renovation would motivate people to attend South
> Lakes. Putting up doors instead of shower
> curtains is a good idea, real walls are nice too,
> but parents care far more about the students and
> staff in the building than the building itself.
> Staff should have known that and worked on what is
> offered inside the building before trying to force
> people to enroll.

Neen, do you really think the renovation was to attract new customers? The renovation schedule has been on the books for years and is part of the regular cycle of improvements that the County follows. It has nothing to do with you; however, SL now has some awesome new spaces, including a computer graphics lab and a pretty remarkable dark room.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forgive me while I wipe my eyes with a big boo
> hoo.
>
> Neen: You are a purveyor of negative, and your
> oft-stated, erroneous premise is that SLHS and
> Reston have no good public schools. There are so
> many kids who have succeeded and excelled at the
> elementary, middle and high school level that I
> find it ludicrous that you continue to cast this
> image of doomed, marooned, stranded families.
> Your universe must be so small and
> self-referential, b/c I know few of the people you
> mention, and those that I do are not in Reston,
> but have these strange preconceptions.
>
> This week, SLHS grads (07) who attend MIT and
> Princeton, respectively, weighed in to confirm
> that they were thriving in their freshman years
> and to note that they find the SLHS bashing
> befuddling. Madison, the SLHS junior, also is
> doing "pretty, pretty good", to quote Larry David.
> There are a lot of other such kids, and they can
> testify on their own....and often do on this
> discussion.
>
> So, I am sure you'll continue your supercilious
> bashing -- tossing the occasional note of bathos
> -- but it just does not add up to reality. That's
> not a whine, just a rebuttal to your consistent
> inaccuracies.

Neen's arguments are really irrelevant, as she already stated in the wee hours of yesterday morning that, "many families are not going to send their kids to South Lakes, period."

Stu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People, due to the overwheming response from the
> public there will not be any redistricting this
> year. I can assure I am all for moving people out
> of Chantilly/Westfield/Herndon and Oakton.
> However I think that you all have made your point
> very clear and well known. It is in the best
> interest of the county if we just let this topic
> cool down for another year.
>
> I will continue to try and screw the folks in
> those school districts if given the chance.
>
> Thanks for all your support Stu.

Even so, for a great number of people ending up at Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to South Lakes.

> So another wrench thrown into the pupil placement for AP issue. When I read the provisions for pupil placement on the FCPS website, it appears to say that if one is going to pupil place for AP or another subject that is not taught in the base school, then one has to be pupil placed at the closest school geographically. So someone wanting to keep their kids at Oakton, and using the AP pupil placement as a method, may actually end up at Chantilly or Herndon, depending upon where they live. It would make sense to stay put, but they may play hardball since so many will be attempting to pupil place.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Neen's arguments are really irrelevant, as she
> already stated in the wee hours of yesterday
> morning that, "many families are not going to send
> their kids to South Lakes, period."


"She" - I thought it was a "he."

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even so, for a great number of people ending up at
> Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to South
> Lakes.
>

Please help me understand that POV. Don't include the AP argument, since that would be moot if SL added AP classes. Also, did you know that IB students can and do take the AP exams all the time?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Even so, for a great number of people ending up
> at
> > Chantilly or Herndon would be preferable to
> South
> > Lakes.
> >
>
> Please help me understand that POV. Don't include
> the AP argument, since that would be moot if SL
> added AP classes. Also, did you know that IB
> students can and do take the AP exams all the
> time?


One reason, I am sure there are more, is familiarity and community. Students who attend Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield, Madison and Herndon play on many of the same youth leagues together--CYA, HOY, Vienna. And have been doing so for many years. These kids have also shared many of the same classrooms at elementary and middle schools--practically growing up together. These families have grown to know each other over many years. Nothing against SL or Reston. But most folks in these other schools don't participate in Reston Youth Leagues and close to no one shares any other school time with S/L kids (except Crossfield). These other schools (except maybe some of Crossfield, Aldrin and Armstrong) don't picture Reston and South Lakes as part of their community.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:11AM by Cricket.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for
> example, would do the same thing there in terms of
> class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale. For
> example, if they were to take either Fox Mill or
> Crossfield, the band program would stand to lose
> anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that mnay,
> then they lose their assistant band director,
> which then costs them the class piano class,
> classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory
> Class. Of course, if they move one of the
> Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up for
> moving the others out, that would help in terms of
> numbers. But I've heard those people have fought
> moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they
> will fight it again.

We are told that, if an elementary school is moved out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.

So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff size.

We'll see.

Most (90%+) of Crossfield students are from Franklin Farm and neighborhoods along West Ox Rd. They participate in the same sports programs (CYA) as the Chantilly, and Westfield kids. Crossifeld families do not see themselves associated with Reston or South Lakes. The Franklin Farm poll will give you a good idea of how they feel about the situation. Only 3% of Crossfield parents that live in Franklin Farm would like to send their kids to South Lakes.

> Please help me understand that POV.

I think it's because we are an inter-related community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of it...

For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids all know each other through the various sports programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and face each other in competitive sports throughout the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of existing friends.

A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some other part of VA, we just don't know you and would prefer to lose all of our existing friends and relationships.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Please help me understand that POV.
>
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
>
> A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some
> other part of VA, we just don't know you and would
> prefer to lose all of our existing friends and
> relationships.

Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles. Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and they probably have nothing in common sportswise with a majority of their fellow students. They seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball and the Reston league included many Crossfield and Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS. My son is now living with one of his Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Please help me understand that POV.
>
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.

Where do the Westfield kids come from who play Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen plenty of those over the years.

Who knows, with the boundary changes being proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids getting to know each other early on.

Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > But moving so many kids out of Oakton, for
> > example, would do the same thing there in terms
> of
> > class offerings, albeit on a smaller scale.
> For
> > example, if they were to take either Fox Mill
> or
> > Crossfield, the band program would stand to
> lose
> > anywhere from 30-50 kids. If they lose that
> mnay,
> > then they lose their assistant band director,
> > which then costs them the class piano class,
> > classroom guitar class and the AP Music Theory
> > Class. Of course, if they move one of the
> > Chantilly neighborhoods into Oakton to make up
> for
> > moving the others out, that would help in terms
> of
> > numbers. But I've heard those people have
> fought
> > moving to Oakton before, successfully, and they
> > will fight it again.
>
> We are told that, if an elementary school is moved
> out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy
> or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
>
> So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> size.
>
> We'll see.


Again, moving Navy kids out of Chantilly does not leave enough room for Floris. And I think that we have been told many things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:10PM by Cricket.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Please help me understand that POV.
> >
> > I think it's because we are an inter-related
> > community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part
> of
> > it...
> > For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield
> kids
> > all know each other through the various sports
> > programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon
> kids
> > as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> > from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are
> all
> > in the Concorde district (except South Lakes)
> and
> > face each other in competitive sports
> throughout
> > the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to
> Westfield
> > or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> > existing friends.
>
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.


Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to Westfield - some of them do play in Reston Little league. Is there a split boundary for sports in some of the schools around Fox Mill?

SLVerity Wrote:

deleted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:16PM by Cricket.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Please help me understand that POV.
> >
> > I think it's because we are an inter-related
> > community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part
> of
> > it...
> >
> > For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield
> kids
> > all know each other through the various sports
> > programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon
> kids
> > as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> > from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are
> all
> > in the Concorde district (except South Lakes)
> and
> > face each other in competitive sports
> throughout
> > the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to
> Westfield
> > or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> > existing friends.
>
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.


Fox Mill doesn't go to Westfield.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> getting to know each other early on.
>
> Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.


Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think anyone sees these as obstacles, except you. This is just the way of life and what everyone else is use to.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's because we are an inter-related
> community...and South Lakes/Reston is not part of
> it...
>
> For example, Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield kids
> all know each other through the various sports
> programs, primarily CYA. Also alot of Hendon kids
> as well, but to a lesser extent. Almost no kids
> from Reston ever play in these leagues. We are all
> in the Concorde district (except South Lakes) and
> face each other in competitive sports throughout
> the year. A kid moving from Chantilly to Westfield
> or Oakton to Chantilly would encounter alot of
> existing friends.
>
> A move to South Lakes would be like moving to some
> other part of VA, we just don't know you and would
> prefer to lose all of our existing friends and
> relationships.

This is exactly the same rationale that I rely upon to advocate for Aldrin to come to SL. It would also apply to most of Armstrong but I'm content to leave them @ HHS. Many, but not all, Fox Mill kids also play in RLL and RYB which, using this ratiioinale, would be a reason for them to go to SL.

My sense is that kids from Westfield portioin of McNair, south of the Toll Road, play in HOYS which would lead to placing it in HHS but I remain to be persuaded on that count.

Note that a small portion of Crossfields, a portion east of the school, already goes to SL and several of them play in RLL and RYB. Several families along Fox Mill also participate in RLL and RYB.

It really doesn't matter what you think, you are not being asked to move anywhere.

> Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles.

Little League is different because Little League International sets boundaries and you are not allowed to play in any other Little League than the one for your address. This is so they can have the tournament at the end of the year.

Baseball is dying out, lacrosse is huge. Anyone can sign up for other CYA sports.

>
> Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox
> Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to
> Westfield - some of them do play in Reston Little
> league. Is there a split boundary for sports in
> some of the schools around Fox Mill?


Fox Mill is a sort of no man's land for sports. Kids play for Herndon Optimist, Reston, and Chantilly teams. It seems like grasping for straws to say that our kids need to go to school with kids they may have played sports with. (no offense, but really...)

Yes and the large portion does not and they play in CYA

> Note that a small portion of Crossfields, a portion east of the school, already goes to SL and several of them play in RLL and RYB. Several families along Fox Mill also participate in RLL and RYB.

And I'm not saying people need to go to HS with kids they played with in youth sports.

My answer was in response to "why kids from say Oakton would find it preferrable to pupil place at Chantilly rather than go to South Lakes" So this conversation has veered somewhat from the original topic.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> > proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> > merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> > getting to know each other early on.
> >
> > Perceived obstacles are rarely insurmountable.
>
>
> Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think
> anyone sees these as obstacles, except you. This
> is just the way of life and what everyone else is
> use to.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. I am only trying to address the perceived obstacles to redistricting to SL that you and others keep introducing. If you had read my post just prior, you would know what I mean. I will repeat it here:

Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles. Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and they probably have nothing in common sportswise with a majority of their fellow students. They seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball and the Reston league included many Crossfield and Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS. My son is now living with one of his Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Oops, edit that. We've had kids from both Fox
> > Mill Elem. and then others who are to go to
> > Westfield - some of them do play in Reston
> Little
> > league. Is there a split boundary for sports
> in
> > some of the schools around Fox Mill?
>
>
> Fox Mill is a sort of no man's land for sports.
> Kids play for Herndon Optimist, Reston, and
> Chantilly teams. It seems like grasping for
> straws to say that our kids need to go to school
> with kids they may have played sports with. (no
> offense, but really...)

Here, here. Just another straw man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 12:28PM by SLVerity.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We are told that, if an elementary school is moved
> out of Oakton, another would be moved in like Navy
> or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
>
> So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> size.
>
> We'll see.

That's the biggest issue people have regarding redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the place just to add to the population of one school and reduce the population at another. Just solve that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most (90%+) of Crossfield students are from
> Franklin Farm and neighborhoods along West Ox Rd.
> They participate in the same sports programs (CYA)
> as the Chantilly, and Westfield kids. Crossifeld
> families do not see themselves associated with
> Reston or South Lakes. The Franklin Farm poll will
> give you a good idea of how they feel about the
> situation. Only 3% of Crossfield parents that live
> in Franklin Farm would like to send their kids to
> South Lakes.


not even close to being a true statement FF k-6 majority go to Oak Hill and Navy NOT crossfield. the part you ahve correct is FF does not want to go to SLHS. PERIOD>>>>

DO NOT VOTE for kathy smith

It is true. Most Crossfield students are from Franklin Farm and the neighborhoods along West Ox Rd. I did not say most Franklin Farm kids go to Crossfield, you are confusing things.


>> not even close to being a true statement FF k-6 majority go to Oak Hill and Navy NOT crossfield. the part you ahve correct is FF does not want to go to SLHS. PERIOD>>>>

SueBonnetSue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>The middle class children are not affected. I
> really don't understand what is so hard to grasp
> about this concept.<<<
>
> That's a little bit hard for us to believe that
> our children are not effected by the other
> children in the same school.


Well then that is the problem. They are not effected in the way you think. They are not in classes with them, they don't hang out with them after school, it is a misconception to think that being in the same building with a group of people who may not share your values is going to have such a profound negative effect on your children. It just doesn't happen. Ask anyone who actually goes to the school and they will tell you that the student body is a positive aspect of the school, not a negative.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> > > proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues
> could
> > > merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> > > getting to know each other early on.
> > >
> > > Perceived obstacles are rarely
> insurmountable.
> >
> >
> > Ha Ha! that is wishful thinking. I don't think
> > anyone sees these as obstacles, except you.
> This
> > is just the way of life and what everyone else
> is
> > use to.
>
> I am not sure what you are trying to say. I am
> only trying to address the perceived obstacles to
> redistricting to SL that you and others keep
> introducing. If you had read my post just prior,
> you would know what I mean. I will repeat it
> here:
>
> Sorry, I just don't see these as major obstacles.
> Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and
> they probably have nothing in common sportswise
> with a majority of their fellow students. They
> seem to adapt just fine. Herndon has its own
> sports leagues, so I'm not sure I see your point
> about Herndon. My son played Babe Ruth baseball
> and the Reston league included many Crossfield and
> Fox Mill boys who ultimately went on to Oakton HS.
> My son is now living with one of his
> Oakton/baseball friends, based on a friendship
> formed years ago in the dugout. I guess it's hard
> to believe that an Oakton boy would even associate
> with a boy from Souf' Lakes, but it's true.

I really think you are expecting too much...combining RYA with Chantilly to make a SL redistricting acceptable? I was not listing obstacles. I was answering a question you posed earlier. "Why would kids rather be sent to Chantilly or Herndon over SL (not using the AP argument)?" I wonder why bother answering the question, because I should have guessed you would take issue with the answer and turn answer around to make it look like our problem.

Schools are not organized by youth leagues. Westfield and Oakton kids share youth leagues with other communities, mostly CYA. However, many Westfield and Oakton kids will join HOY (it is not just Herndon kids in answer to your question above) or Vienna leagues. Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.

chsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > We are told that, if an elementary school is
> moved
> > out of Oakton, another would be moved in like
> Navy
> > or Oak Hill, then Floris would be moved into
> > Chantilly to keep Chantilly and Oakton at full
> > enrollment and reduce the size of Westfield.
> >
> > So Oakton and Chantilly would keep its staff
> > size.
> >
> > We'll see.
>
> That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.



Or just move Navy to South Lakes. Or Oak Hill to South Lakes. Or London Towne to Chantilly or Floris to Oakton or Fox Mill to Herndon or McNair to Chantilly. C'mon, really you are the exact puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on --spineless people who can lead neighborhoods/communities against each other. You get to do the dirty work. Stu and KAthy won't have to as they watch neighbors like you tear each other apart.

Oh I am so confused. When I initially started following this issue, I was under the impression that the new addition at SLHS was for an additional 600-700 kids. Maybe I made that assumption based on enrollment figures or some other data posted on the FCPS website. So, I did a quick calculation and thought that those "seats" must have been gold plated because they would be worth at least $100K a pop. Now, I am trying to figure out how the number of students "needed" at SLHS is 372. Which would put each new slot worth approximately $200K a piece. Is this issue being discussed? Or I am just late to the party? I've seen stuff written about how a certain current School Board member has said that the seats at SLHS will be filled by the fall of 2008, but what about the idea of stewardship of public funds, etc... Doesn't $60 - 70 million for a remodel of a school seem like a lot of money? I must be missing something.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who knows, with the boundary changes being
> proposed, perhaps CYA and Reston leagues could
> merge, thereby facilitating all of these kids
> getting to know each other early on.

The franchise boundaries of RLL and Chantilly are set by Little League International in Williamsport, PA. In fact Herndon is all part of Reston's franchise area but because the HOYS guys didn't like the amount of input they had in RLL Board of Directors, HOYS opted out of RLL and joined Cal Ripken baseball.

There are too many kids in CYA and RLL for Little League International to permit such a merger

Old Timer Wrote:
-------
> Where do the Westfield kids come from who play
> Reston Little League - Fox Mill Elem.? I've seen
> plenty of those over the years.

Many are from Fox Mill, some are from Crossfield, particularly the part of Crossfield that goes to SL. I've even had a few from Floris playing on Reston teams

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like grasping for
> straws to say that our kids need to go to school
> with kids they may have played sports with. (no
> offense, but really...)

Sports league do a better job of defining communities than postal addresses. Sports leagues are one of the few means by which kids from different elementary schools make friends before middle and high school. Its part of why there is such cohesion at Madison. Those kids have been playing with each other since tee-ball.

chsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's the biggest issue people have regarding
> redistricting -- a plan to move kids all over the
> place just to add to the population of one school
> and reduce the population at another. Just solve
> that problem - move Floris to South Lakes.


Please, look at a map of the attendance areas. Its too far. And sending it to SL would make it an attendance island Crossfield, Fox Mill and McNair are closer to SL than Floris.

Floris is much closer to Chantilly than Westfield, HHS and South Lakes.

LOLA Espanola Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh I am so confused. When I initially started
> following this issue, I was under the impression
> that the new addition at SLHS was for an
> additional 600-700 kids. Maybe I made that
> assumption based on enrollment figures or some
> other data posted on the FCPS website. So, I did
> a quick calculation and thought that those "seats"
> must have been gold plated because they would be
> worth at least $100K a pop. Now, I am trying to
> figure out how the number of students "needed" at
> SLHS is 372. Which would put each new slot worth
> approximately $200K a piece. Is this issue being
> discussed? Or I am just late to the party? I've
> seen stuff written about how a certain current
> School Board member has said that the seats at
> SLHS will be filled by the fall of 2008, but what
> about the idea of stewardship of public funds,
> etc... Doesn't $60 - 70 million for a remodel of
> a school seem like a lot of money? I must be
> missing something.

Are you being a wise guy or just intentionally ignorant? the SL construction was a renovation not an expansion. The capacity of SL has actually been reduced 50-110 kids by the new construction. The principal change was going from the open floor plan of the original design which was in vogue when SL was initially designed. The movable walls allowed noise to fly from one room to another.

Another failed educational fad. FFX falls for every one that comes along. Our central staff always has to be "au courant." It the same phenomenon that gave us "whole language", "everyday math" and (you know what's next) IB!!!!

First adapters always pay the highest price.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parents send their kids to TJ all the time, and
> they probably have nothing in common sportswise
> with a majority of their fellow students. They
> seem to adapt just fine.

No, actually they don't. Most TJ sports don't have enough kids going out for their teams. And not knowing the other kids in the school is a why. There's not another kid from their neighborhood to cajole/remind them to go to the try-out. No one to tell the coach, "Hey coach, Susie plays soccer, let's get her to come out for the team." It's a significant part of a community based school that's missing at TJ and would be missing at any magnet at South Lakes, in the unlikely event that such a magnet were to be created there.

Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in this blog? Your free to, of course, but I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 07:04PM by Thomas More.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.

there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no RYA.

Lots of kids who ultimately go to Oakton play in RLL, Herndon/Reston Babe Ruth, RYB. They're going to Fox Mill & Crossfields. There're even a few from Floris. Haven't run into any from McNair but there may be some that I haven't met.

Speaking of McNair, I thought you'd like to know, Cricket, that some kids on the buses to Westfield, who live in those expensive townhouse on Fox Mill and whose younger siblings are going to McNair, are circulating a petition seeking to be redistricted to South Lakes!!

i guess these kids don't share your biases.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 06:29PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
>
> there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no
> RYA.


RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just football. My son plays - I do know.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> C'mon, really you are the exact
> puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on
> --spineless people who can lead
> neighborhoods/communities against each other. You
> get to do the dirty work.

Cricket, I'm nobody's puppet, especially not your's or Stu's.

I've already voted absentee for Christine and the others endorsed by StopRD. However, unlike most of the people on this blog while I have my preferences (ALDRIN, ALDRIN, ALDRIN)(Get rid of IB!!!), but I'm open to looking at other solutions. (McNair, Fox Mill). I want decisions based as much on accurate information as possible and I don't trust the bureaucracy, including Butler or Goodman, to give a rabbit's turd about my kids or yours.

Reasonable people can solve this to the maximum advantage of most kids, If we act in good faith with each other on this blog and at the meetings.

Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate civil disobedience at the November meeting to get Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on Wednesday next.

I'm not trying to start an IB vs AP fight again, please believe me. This is not which is better...


Did anyone happen to read the Washington Post magazine today? It is in the supplements for the Sunday Post. If not, you had better go get a copy as this article will be the talk of the town next week.

Read the article starting on page 20 - "Aiming for the Middle" - it's just a little article about Langston Hughes Middle School and the IB in the Middle years program (MYP).

And no, I won't tell you what it says, buy it or google it yourself...It's much more fun this way.

THANK YOU JAY MATTHEWS!!!!!

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just football.
> My son plays - I do know.

Thank you. I sit corrected. I thought it was RFA for reston youth football. Does RYA sponsor any other sports? Do they draw kids from outside the Reston Association boundaries?

Also do you know if, now that the lighted rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open tonight, whether RYA practices will move to the Lake Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball fields?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 06:54PM by Thomas More.

I read it. It's a good article, puts IB in a good light.

I believe this is part of a PR campaign by the schools and the county. I don't buy that this is a coincidence.

Also points out how unfair it would be to students who don't have a IBMYP, that would be forced to attend SL. When all is said and done, Hughes won't be the single supplier of students to SL.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > RYA - is Reston Youth Association - just
> football.
> > My son plays - I do know.
>
> Thank you. I sit corrected. I thought it was RFA
> for reston youth football. Does RYA sponsor any
> other sports?


Nope, just football. And actually it is a very good program. Last year they were either 2nd in the county (for total wins) or tied. To be surpassed only by CYA.

There were some problems about 5 years ago with leadership, they embezzled or some other horrible nonsense. The new leadership got rid of some of the dead weight coaches and brought in new blood. The coaches and leadership are excellent; I was leery of football being a baseball parent. I had heard negative things, in general, about the parents, fans being a little coarse. Part of the reason I let me son play was the positive feedback I got from other parents. As a "rookie" parent, I have been truly impressed. But even more so I am impressed with how the leadership is trying to develop a pipeline through to SLHS. It takes a while to develop a program like those you see in CYA or Vienna Little league, where you see the long term committment show up in their winning records at the high school level. We're starting to see it happening in Reston now with football. Of course our team is going to the Championships so that doesn't hurt :)

We all know SLHS isn't very good in football although their freshmen team did rather well. Maybe it's starting to work, who knows?



Pick up the Reston Connection and you'll see pictures and stories each week. Have also been impressed how the Connection has been working so well to get RESTON stories in the RESTON CONNECTION unlike the RESTON TIMES which runs stories about Oakton.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open tonight,
> whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball
> fields?

Sorry, no clue about that.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> > rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open
> tonight,
> > whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> > Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes softball
> > fields?
>
> Sorry, no clue about that.

Given the hour I'm guessing your not going to the opening games tonight at Lake Fairfax. Can you ask around about practice and let us know?

Any insights on where the RYA kids go to school? Fox Mill, Crossfields, Aldrin Armstrong?

Thanks, Old Timer (I wish my kids would say that to me):

We have had the exact same experience with Reston Youth football.....you captured it perfectly, and it has been very nice that the Connection has supported/reported the program.

I haven't seen it first-hand, but I heard from the RYA coaches that the SLHS coaches have been helpful and available to RYA. Also, similar seeds have been planted with lacrosse, though that is a Herndon/Reston joint gig (but the SLHS coaches have been reaching out to, and supportive of -- youth leagues).

On TM's question, I don't think they will practice at the Lake Fairfax turf fields this year (only two weeks left at max), but might next....tbd.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We all know SLHS isn't very good in football
> although their freshmen team did rather well.
> Maybe it's starting to work, who knows?

Not until they get rid of Ellenbarfer. SL made the playoff and will play Stonebridge next week. But SL varisty only won 3 games which makes 5 losing season for Ellenbarfer who doesn't teach fundamentals like blocking or tackling.

I remember the problems with the prior leadership of reston youth football. It might have been known as RFA then. That arrogant illegitmate offspring almost got those teams banned from using the SL fields because he wouldn't stay off the softball fields.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> I remember the problems with the prior leadership
> of reston youth football. It might have been
> known as RFA then. That arrogant illegitmate
> offspring almost got those teams banned from using
> the SL fields because he wouldn't stay off the
> softball fields.



If that is the issue now, that the teams are on the softball fields, I would email the football commissioner about it. His email is on the home page - www.restonseahawks.com - I believe it is commish@restonseahawks.com


Actually, I was mistaken. RYA is football, flag football, and cheerleading. I wasn't specific enough.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Also do you know if, now that the lighted
> > > rectangular fields at Lake Fairfax open
> > tonight,
> > > whether RYA practices will move to the Lake
> > > Fairfax fields and off the South Lakes
> softball
> > > fields?
> >
> > Sorry, no clue about that.
>
> Given the hour I'm guessing your not going to the
> opening games tonight at Lake Fairfax. Can you
> ask around about practice and let us know?

No, we're not going. Will ask around though, but as padre said, only a week to go for this season.


> Any insights on where the RYA kids go to school?
> Fox Mill, Crossfields, Aldrin Armstrong?

Same as RLL - all over. These are the ones I know - Forest Edge, Lake Anne, and even one from Forestville. It's not been a topic of conversation but I'll ask around... What has been more important, to the boys that is, is that Eddie Royal was at RYA before he went to Westfield.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Will ask around though

Thanks

> It's not been a topic of
> conversation but I'll ask around...

thanks again

> What has been
> more important, to the boys that is, is that Eddie
> Royal was at RYA before he went to Westfield.

That's cool for the kids. VTech's back on track against Gtech thursday and Royal was given a chance in that game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 07:50PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > C'mon, really you are the exact
> > puppet that Stu and Kathy are couting on
> > --spineless people who can lead
> > neighborhoods/communities against each other.
> You
> > get to do the dirty work.
>
> Cricket, I'm nobody's puppet, especially not
> your's or Stu's.
>
> I've already voted absentee for Christine and the
> others endorsed by StopRD. However, unlike most
> of the people on this blog while I have my
> preferences (ALDRIN, ALDRIN, ALDRIN)(Get rid of
> IB!!!), but I'm open to looking at other
> solutions. (McNair, Fox Mill). I want decisions
> based as much on accurate information as possible
> and I don't trust the bureaucracy, including
> Butler or Goodman, to give a rabbit's turd about
> my kids or yours.
>
> Reasonable people can solve this to the maximum
> advantage of most kids, If we act in good faith
> with each other on this blog and at the meetings.
>
> Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate
> civil disobedience at the November meeting to get
> Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on
> Wednesday next.



I wasn't talking about you, but whatever.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cricket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very few Westfield and Oakton kids join RYA.
>
> there is no RYA. there is RLL and RYB but no
> RYA.
>
> Lots of kids who ultimately go to Oakton play in
> RLL, Herndon/Reston Babe Ruth, RYB. They're going
> to Fox Mill & Crossfields. There're even a few
> from Floris. Haven't run into any from McNair but
> there may be some that I haven't met.
>
> Speaking of McNair, I thought you'd like to know,
> Cricket, that some kids on the buses to Westfield,
> who live in those expensive townhouse on Fox Mill
> and whose younger siblings are going to McNair,
> are circulating a petition seeking to be
> redistricted to South Lakes!!
>
> i guess these kids don't share your biases.

I am glad to hear this. It falls into your plan which you have or haven't decided you like--it's hard to tell. These kids should be involved, since their schools will most likely change again the following year. At least they are getting a head start.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read it. It's a good article, puts IB in a good
> light.
>
> I believe this is part of a PR campaign by the
> schools and the county. I don't buy that this is a
> coincidence.

Probably not - but that would put put Jay Matthews in a bad light as well. He is so well regarded especially when he ranks Oakton, Langley, Woodson, and the rest of our county schools so highly. Will we disregard some of what he says because this doesn't feed our preconceived notions? What will we think of the Challenge Index now? Maybe it too is just a marketing campaign for local schools?

> points out how unfair it would be to students
> who don't have a IBMYP, that would be forced to
> attend SL. When all is said and done, Hughes won't
> be the single supplier of students to SL.

Sorry - the spin doesn't work on this one...

1) There is no specific progression from MYP to IB. Not necessary to do MYP to do IB. You can participate in MYP in 9th and 10th without having been in the MYP for 7th and 8th. IB is only 11th and 12th. ALL STUDENTS in 9th and 10th are in the MYP.. Note to others - MYP is 7th through 10th. IB is 11th and 12th.

2) You're saying that because these students haven't been able to participate in "perhaps the most challenging middle school program in America for non-magnet schools" that they are better off not going to SL at all?


Do agree that middle schools should have been included in the study. Just heard today grumbling on the soccer fields that lots of Armstrong parents would love to get out of Herndon middle. We'd take them from elementary all the way through if we could.

Do agree that Langley should be included.

Don't think that politically motivated flaws in study parameters should deter progression though. The devil you know is better than the one you don't!

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ALL STUDENTS in 9th and 10th are in the
> MYP..

Sorry - meant all students in 7th and 8th are in MYP - regardless of whether in GT or not.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably not - but that would put put Jay Matthews
> in a bad light as well.

Read the article. Mathews has been in the tank for IB for years. I'd like to check his bank balance to see if there's any payola flowing his way from Switzerland.

Of course, Mathew's daughter didn't have to endure the homework load of IB before she got into Cal Berkeley.

He's book Harvard Smarvard is so full of garbage when you recognize he got his daughter into one of the 5 or 6 "public iveys"


> 1) There is no specific progression from MYP to
> IB. Not necessary to do MYP to do IB.

but it is required to take a language in 8th grade to get the IB diploma which requires 5 yrs of a foriegn language which will show, along with Algebra I, on the transcript to college contrary to what Mathews rights.

More Later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 09:22PM by Thomas More.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Did anyone happen to read the Washington Post
> magazine today? It is in the supplements for the
> Sunday Post. If not, you had better go get a copy
> as this article will be the talk of the town next
> week.
>
The joke of the town, you mean. I love South Lakes and the IB Diploma program. But what was Jay on when he wrote this story? I don't want to ruin the suprise, so I won't say more.

Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The joke of the town, you mean. I love South
> Lakes and the IB Diploma program. But what was Jay
> on when he wrote this story? I don't want to ruin
> the suprise, so I won't say more.

Was the MYP program even in place when last year's seniors were at Hughes?

I don't think it was in place when this year's seniors or sophomores were at Hughes. But others may know better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 10:02PM by Thomas More.

The IBMYP has been in Langston Hughes for quite a while, just not really emphasized and not really treated as a program (they would make connections during class to the 5 points of the IBMYP, the only one I remember is homo faber, it was really a pointless exercise at that time). I think the actual program that you could continue into South Lakes and get credit for having participated in the IBMYP started with either the class of 07 or 08, but again, like the actual IB program, probably didn't/hasn't gained much popularity yet in its early years. I'm not completely sure on those dates but its around that time.

*by quite a while I mean probably around the time they brought IB to SL.

nope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *by quite a while I mean probably around the time
> they brought IB to SL.

Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way MYP was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year language requirement in 2002.

Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and no official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them were there.

By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so maybe it was there then.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 10:33PM by Thomas More.

Everyone at Hughes participates in the IBMYP. The rising senior class at SL is the first one to be involved with the program officially. It is not a prerequisite to doing IB Junior and Senior year. It is a totally separate program. Ninth and 10th graders coming into SL can participate, though. Most college-bound students start with a language in 8th grade so it would not be an impediment to doing the IB diploma, if one were so inclined.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 2) You're saying that because these students
> haven't been able to participate in "perhaps the
> most challenging middle school program in America
> for non-magnet schools....
>
>
Old Timer, did your kids go to Hughes? The GT Center, perhaps? Because you are certainly not describing the school or the IB MYP program my two kids experienced.
That said, I have a lot of faith in Amy Montigio, the new principal at Hughes. She's there to do for Hughes what Butler did for South Lakes, and like Butler, she is smart and savvy enough to turn things around. Maybe she'll have the good sense to listen to her teachers, parents and students, and boot the IB Middle Years program out the door. A solid and challenging curriculum is the best prepartion for the IB Diploma Program, not the poster-coloring, time-wasting MYP projects. MYP doesn't prepare kids for IB; it turns kids (and parents) off IB and gives the IB Program a bad name.

And Thomas, please don't go off on Bruce Butler because I spoke well of him in this post. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but we have heard it many times already. Although I am sure you could find a parent or two who would agree with you, most of us really don't. Bruce Butler has taken South Lakes a long way in just a few years. Had he been appointed years earlier, redistricting would be far less contentious or perhaps unnecessary. For this egregious failure of leadership, I blame Stu Gibson. Unfortunately, handing my vote to Christine would ally me with Neen which makes me nauseous.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone at Hughes participates in the IBMYP. The
> rising senior class at SL is the first one to be
> involved with the program officially. It is not a
> prerequisite to doing IB Junior and Senior year.
> It is a totally separate program. Ninth and 10th
> graders coming into SL can participate, though.
> Most college-bound students start with a language
> in 8th grade so it would not be an impediment to
> doing the IB diploma, if one were so inclined.

Your just couldn't be more wrong. Lots of college bound students at SL never took a language at Hughes. You're just making stuff up now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:09PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nope Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > *by quite a while I mean probably around the
> time
> > they brought IB to SL.
>
> Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way MYP
> was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal
> didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year
> language requirement in 2002.
>
> Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and no
> official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them were
> there.
>
> By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so
> maybe it was there then.


This is what I meant by saying that it wasnt emphasized and there was no program that continued through the high school. I was at Hughes 99-01 and I absolutely remember IBMYP posters in the class rooms. We just didn't do anything with them other than learn the 5 concepts.

Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Thomas, please don't go off on Bruce Butler
> because I spoke well of him in this post.

I have given almost a dozen examples of Butler's failures on this blog in just his first two years.

I'm waiting for one of Bruce's sycophants to name one specific thing he's done right.

Everyone talks about a better atmosphere. The folks in Berlin were happy when the Russians showed up in '45 because they were so relieved to be rid of the Nazis. But by 48, they were in open rebellion.

All this happy talk about the Emperor's new clothes doesn't persuade folks from the other schools.

The previous Hughes principal was terrific. She very much deserved the promotion to McLean.

More Later

Thomas More Wrote:

> Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in
> this blog? Your free to, of course, but I don't
> understand what you're trying to accomplish.

Why are you so hostile to those whose opinions/perceptions/experiences differ from yours?

I have lived in this community for 25 years and been actively involved in the schools almost as long, even prior to my own children attending. I have every right to post on this board and make my experiences/opinions known. Just because my kids have graduated does not mean that my interest in our schools and broader community ends. I am not just in it for myself. I guess that is beyond the realm of your comprehension.

I guess it's hard for you, expert in all subjects, to be patient with one as ignorant and ill-informed as me, but I ask you to please try, for my sake.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> > Your kids are out of SL. Why do you persist in
> > this blog? Your free to, of course, but I
> don't
> > understand what you're trying to accomplish.
>
> Why are you so hostile to those whose
> opinions/perceptions/experiences differ from
> yours?
>
> I have lived in this community for 25 years and
> been actively involved in the schools almost as
> long, even prior to my own children attending. I
> have every right to post on this board and make my
> experiences/opinions known. Just because my kids
> have graduated does not mean that my interest in
> our schools and broader community ends. I am not
> just in it for myself. I guess that is beyond the
> realm of your comprehension.
>
> I guess it's hard for you, expert in all subjects,
> to be patient with one as ignorant and
> ill-informed as me, but I ask you to please try,
> for my sake.

I'll defend to the death your right to your erroneous opiniions. I just can't understand your motivation to defend SL at all costs, frequently with misinformation.

So that leads me to conclude that you're just a busy body trying to force your solutions on our kids. How, magnanimous.

Maybe you're on the payroll at SL or the school division's central staff.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2007 11:27PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:

>
> So you're just a busy body trying to force your
> solutions on our kids. Oh, magnanimous.
>
> Maybe you're on the payroll at SL or the school
> divisions central staff.

So now you've really taken off the gloves. I am scared now, Tom. I guess I'll have to stop posting here, now that the all-knowing, great and powerful Tom has spoken. Except you are more like the wizard behind the curtain and you really don't pack much of a punch.

I confess, though, I am actually Jack Dale. Or maybe I'm Bruce Butler. Or maybe I'm Jay Mathews. I'm so confused I don't know who I am or if I even have children in the system anymore.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So now you've really taken off the gloves. I am
> scared now, Tom. I guess I'll have to stop posting
> here, now that the all-knowing, great and powerful
> Tom has spoken. Except you are more like the
> wizard behind the curtain and you really don't
> pack much of a punch.
>
> I confess, though, I am actually Jack Dale. Or
> maybe I'm Bruce Butler. Or maybe I'm Jay Mathews.
> I'm so confused I don't know who I am or if I
> even have children in the system anymore.

No body else can figure out what you're up to either.

Word,
Of course it's part of their PR campaign. Most staff at Hughes has thought that middle school IB was a joke, a nothing program.

Don't forget that Jay Mathews is a liberal who LOVES IB. Remember too that Jay Mathews pulled his first child out of public school when she was in second grade. After that, none of his children ever set foot in public schools, despite living in Bethesda, in Walt Whitman district. All of his children went to St. Albans.

So, pardon me if I don't much care what Jay Mathews thinks the little people should do and how they should educate their children.

Boy, there are a lot of black helicopter conspiracy theories posted on this site.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boy, there are a lot of black helicopter
> conspiracy theories posted on this site.


It almost outweighs the brown-nosing emanating from the SL sycophants.

nope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > nope Wrote:
> >

> >
> > Absolutely not. IB came to SL in 2000. No way
> MYP
> > was at Hughes back then. The Hughes principal
> > didn't even know about the IB diploma's 5 year
> > language requirement in 2002.
> >
> > Four kids through Hughes from 1994 to 2005 and
> no
> > official MYP at Hughes while anyone of them
> were
> > there.
> >
> > By 2005 I stopped paying attention to IB/MYP so
> > maybe it was there then.
>
>
> This is what I meant by saying that it wasnt
> emphasized and there was no program that continued
> through the high school. I was at Hughes 99-01 and
> I absolutely remember IBMYP posters in the class
> rooms. We just didn't do anything with them other
> than learn the 5 concepts.

Of course MYP was at Hughes when my Senior was in 7th grade. I remember ridiculing it constantly. But back then, it was truly laughable, and at worst a bit of an annoyance. Teachers did the MYP minimum - they asked kids once a quarter to write how an assignment fit one of the five "areas of interaction" (remember Homo Faber...?). It was silly, but not terribly time consuming or harmful. Teachers seemed to be satisfied with my son's typical response: "my project relates to Homo Faber which means 'man the maker' because I made it". For the most part, teachers back then still concentrated on teaching and most did a reasonably good job of it.

By the time my South Lakes freshman arrived at Hughes three years later,most of those teachers were gone and the MYP program was more entrenched. This was not good news. I started buying poster boards in 10-packs. I think there must be an MYP requirement that teachers give only assignments that can also decorate classrooms and hallways. The kids made not only posters, but also bookmarks, gameboards, and clay things, in honors English class, But they didn't read literature or write papers. Obnoxious parents like me complained a lot. I'd like to think that perhaps those complaints played a small role in bringing about the changes in leadership a year later.

Does MYP have to be horrible? Perhaps not, but I have never seen evidence that it can be beneficial. It promotes some good teaching practices, but it doesn't own them. Good teaching practices don't need packaging in an expensive "Programme" with a bunch of other manditory superflous junk.

At South Lakes, frankly, MYP is a bit of an afterthought. It's still in place for 9th and 10th grade in theory, but in practice it's hardly felt. Teachers teach well in whatever ways help kids learn. Students who want the MYP certificate in 10th grade complete a "personal project" of their choosing. It's not a big deal, and if it wasn't for Hughes, I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it.

So I still want to know what Jay was smoking when he wrote that article.

Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > 2) You're saying that because these students
> > haven't been able to participate in "perhaps
> the
> > most challenging middle school program in
> America
> > for non-magnet schools....
> >

I'm quoting the article - Jay Matthews - it's also called sarcasm...

>>>When all is said and done, Hughes won't be the single supplier of students to SL.<<<<

Are you sure that students redistricted to South Lakes won't also be redistricted to Hughes? Or will several middle schools feed to South Lakes? I thought a goal of the school board was to eliminate split feeders?

Can't take it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Of course MYP was at Hughes when my Senior was in
> 7th grade. I remember ridiculing it constantly.
> But back then, it was truly laughable, and at
> worst a bit of an annoyance. Teachers did the MYP
> minimum - they asked kids once a quarter to write
> how an assignment fit one of the five "areas of
> interaction" (remember Homo Faber...?). It was
> silly, but not terribly time consuming or harmful.

All those posters were driven by MYP. Well, my eyes are open. Neither the teacher's nor the kids ever tied it to MYP. I expected an MYP program to be more like the pre-IB courses the 9th & 10th graders take SL. The claymation stuff reminded me of a Montesorri pre-school. What a joke.

What connection did that stuff have with anything on the SATs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2007 12:48AM by Thomas More.

Maybe it's part of the marketing campaign, maybe it's not.

But,you can't have it both ways - you can't quote Matthew's challenge index showing your school ranking on one hand and then dismiss him when he calls the MYP at Langston Hughes the most "challenging middle school program in America for non-magnet schools."

And the rank and file who believe everything they read or what their friend's nephew's babysitter's boyfriend heard about South Lakes are GOING TO BELIEVE THE ARTICLE. It's in print dammit, it must be true!

And Neen - because you want all of this to be political,because you are so political, I absentee voted for Stu...

Thomas More said
>>>Hell, if Stu gets re-elect, I may even advocate
> civil disobedience at the November meeting to get
> Langley in play but we'll cross that bridge on
> Wednesday next.<<<<

I suspect that you won't be alone. I also know that it won't matter. They've already decided what will happen. The community meetings are a PR move so staff can explain why the community cannot have what they want, while making the community think that they actually have some input into the outcome. They don't. Or they never have before in boundary changes. Janie, Stu, and Kathy have already decided what will happen.

Floris and McNair (or part of McNair) go to South Lakes. It's the easiest solution for the school board, or this current school board. If Christine and/or John win, it's all off the table and back to the drawing boards. Heck, they might even be able to consult the community BEFORE they decide on a boundary study. Wouldn't that be novel for our school board? Talking to the community BEFORE they make a decision? Wow. What a concept.

Ditto.

I also absentee voted for Stu, and gave the button a little extra firm push, so that the machine would not think I was just another brown-nosin' squishy Reston lib.

Thomas: Was that sarcasm or a firm attestation in favor of Deborah Jackson (now at McLean)....couldn't tell.


On to the finals, Reston Seahawks.

Can't take it wrote:
>>>By the time my South Lakes freshman arrived at Hughes three years later,most of those teachers were gone and the MYP program was more entrenched. This was not good news. I started buying poster boards in 10-packs. I think there must be an MYP requirement that teachers give only assignments that can also decorate classrooms and hallways. The kids made not only posters, but also bookmarks, gameboards, and clay things, in honors English class, But they didn't read literature or write papers. Obnoxious parents like me complained a lot. I'd like to think that perhaps those complaints played a small role in bringing about the changes in leadership a year later.

Does MYP have to be horrible? Perhaps not, but I have never seen evidence that it can be beneficial. It promotes some good teaching practices, but it doesn't own them. Good teaching practices don't need packaging in an expensive "Programme" with a bunch of other manditory superflous junk.

At South Lakes, frankly, MYP is a bit of an afterthought. It's still in place for 9th and 10th grade in theory, but in practice it's hardly felt. Teachers teach well in whatever ways help kids learn. Students who want the MYP certificate in 10th grade complete a "personal project" of their choosing. It's not a big deal, and if it wasn't for Hughes, I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it.<<<


This is EXACTLY what parents, and staff at South Lakes, have told me.

Jay Mathews is doing his best to get his democrats elected to the school board. I am sure that Stu is THRILLED with Jay's article since Stu takes credit for IB at South Lakes and IB MYP at Hughes. What better PR could Stu get two days before the election? How nice of Jay to do that for him.

I just love it when rich liberals like jay Mathews tell everyone else to send their child to an IB school while their own children attend St. Albans. He's happy to tell everyone else to sacrifice their child to mediocre public schools but he would never do that himself.

I must say that I am quite surprised to read here, and hear elsewhere, of so many democrats voting against Stu. It does my heart good to see people putting their partisanship aside to do what is right for kids. For many people that's not an easy thing to do and I applaud you for doing the right thing. Kudos.

Old Timer,
Of course you voted for Stu. That's been rather obvious. This issue is completely political. If Stu wins, the community is redistricted exactly as he wants it to be. If he loses, the community gets a say in what happens. Simple as that.

One person's partisanship is another's patriotism. I am not a democrat, btw.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ditto.

Which post were you dittoing?

> Thomas: Was that sarcasm or a firm attestation in
> favor of Deborah Jackson (now at
> McLean)....couldn't tell.

I really liked Ms. Jackson. I know others didn't but I always found her to be approachable. I appreciated that her first reflex was not to protect the staff. She took on the staff's foolishness more than once while my kids were there.

> On to the finals, Reston Seahawks.

Is that an exhortation or an announcement of victory?

BTW, I've always thought that Jay's little index was useless. I have no idea where Madison ranks, (he doesn't allow TJ to be in his little rankings) nor do I care. He made up his index, based on ONE thing, IB and AP tests. It's a silly way to rank schools, made up entirely by ONE person, one person who is a newspaper reporter. I have no idea why anyone gives it any credence.

Padre, Can we assume that you have never been a Stu supporter? I think I heard about you, the ONE person in Reston who voted against Stu in previous campaigns.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just love it when rich liberals like jay Mathews
> tell everyone else to send their child to an IB
> school while their own children attend St. Albans.
> He's happy to tell everyone else to sacrifice
> their child to mediocre public schools but he
> would never do that himself.

I get freightened when I agree with you.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Padre, Can we assume that you have never been a
> Stu supporter? I think I heard about you, the ONE
> person in Reston who voted against Stu in previous
> campaigns.

Neen, you know I voted against him in 2003.

Ditto, I voted for Stu.

I wish Dr. Jackson well in her new position.

I believe that at least four of the RYA teams will play in the finals (there are a lot of divisions, but that is 4 of 11 Reston teams, if I have my figures right; 8 of 11 made the playoffs).