Thanks southlakesgraduate, it's great to hear the experience from an IB graduate. The point people made yesterday about IB is it's a great program, but may not fit for everyone. I don't think I heard anyone trying to denouce IB program itself, but rather the lack of flexibility, especially students not interested in majoring humanities related subjects, is what makes many parents not wanting it be the only available program (since a school cannot be both AP and IB in FCPS), especially when the RD's families were not part of the decision making process.

When I was a sophomore and in pre-IB algebra II, I had some issues with my teacher. Her teaching style did not fit with my learning style and my grades were suffering because of it. I went to my guidance counselor to see if I could switch out of that class into another teachers, or into reagular algebra II. Unfortunately, there was no other teacher teaching pre-IB algebra II and all of the regular algebra II classes were full or at times I could not change my schdule around to fit (becuase it was the same deal with my other classes). This is the kind of situation that occurs all the time at South Lakes due to a lack of students. If more students had been in pre-IB algrebra II, maybe we would have had another teacher for it. Think of what this must be like for students who have even more serious problems in classes. Either they have to deal with it which is detrimental to their grades and their mental state, or they have to switch their entire schedule around and may miss out on other classes that were working out for them (like being forced to switch another class from pre-IB to regular when they might be excelling in that subject area). Increased course offerings does not just mean elective classes, it means offering more periods of the same classes so that students dont get stuck the way I did.

Can someone explain why with similar number of teachers as Madsion and about 500 less students, Madison students doesn't have the complain? Is it because such issues is everywhere, we just didn't hear it, or is it because something else not solely related to student numbers?

I remeber someone take into consideration of special ed students, and assign them with 1:5 ratio, that still shows SL has a much better student/tearcher ration. Then why courses cannot be offered with seemingly enough teachers compared to other schools? IB unfortunately became one to blame -- at least this is the obvious difference that stands out.

speakerbox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was a sophomore and in pre-IB algebra II, I
> had some issues with my teacher. Her teaching
> style did not fit with my learning style and my
> grades were suffering because of it. I went to my
> guidance counselor to see if I could switch out of
> that class into another teachers, or into reagular
> algebra II. Unfortunately, there was no other
> teacher teaching pre-IB algebra II and all of the
> regular algebra II classes were full or at times I
> could not change my schdule around to fit (becuase
> it was the same deal with my other classes). This
> is the kind of situation that occurs all the time
> at South Lakes due to a lack of students. If more
> students had been in pre-IB algrebra II, maybe we
> would have had another teacher for it. Think of
> what this must be like for students who have even
> more serious problems in classes. Either they have
> to deal with it which is detrimental to their
> grades and their mental state, or they have to
> switch their entire schedule around and may miss
> out on other classes that were working out for
> them (like being forced to switch another class
> from pre-IB to regular when they might be
> excelling in that subject area). Increased course
> offerings does not just mean elective classes, it
> means offering more periods of the same classes so
> that students dont get stuck the way I did.


This issue is not unique to SL, especially with regard to Algebra II. My daughter, a junior at Robinson, is stuck with a teacher with a style better suited to college engineering students. Even though my daughter and many of her friends are strong math students we have joined with several parents to pay for a tutor since Algebra II is a key part of the SAT. The switching problem with this course is compounded by the fact that it is an SOL course and getting an override into a full section is nearly impossible.

Teacher changes should be the exception rather than the rule, since schools won't typically offer multiple unfillod sections of the same course at the same time. Even at Robinson, anecdotally we hear that you can't always change teachers easily...why would you expect this would be the case at South Lakes when realistically you're only looking at adding a bit over 100 students / class year?

See what you pay Dale to screw up the FCPS system.



By Daniel de Vise
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 31, 2008; Page PG04

School superintendents in the Washington area will collect salaries ranging from $157,200 to $279,340 in the fiscal year that ends June 30. Factor in benefits and perks, however, and the average annual compensation package swells to $351,730.

Compensation for the school chiefs goes well beyond the salaries reported to the public, according to a review of contracts for 12 superintendents in the District and its suburbs. Contracts routinely allow superintendents to collect tens of thousands in deferred compensation and to cash in weeks of unused leave annually. Superintendents enjoy supplemental insurance policies and retirement plans on top of the benefits available to all public school administrators.

In Montgomery County, the $242,686 salary paid this year to School Superintendent Jerry D. Weast represents not quite half of a total compensation package valued at $489,763. John E. Deasy in Prince George's County will receive $424,080 in total compensation, with less than two-thirds coming from salary, according to figures provided by the school system.

The compensation packages help school boards attract quality educators to a job that is becoming increasingly hard to fill. Superintendent salaries nationwide have increased by almost half in the past decade, in an ongoing bidding war for talented candidates. Superintendent tenures are declining, and the lengths of superintendent searches are growing, as top educators leave the field for jobs with less stress and better pay, according to the American Association of School Administrators.

There are "not enough qualified superintendents," said James E. Richmond, superintendent of Charles County schools, adding that there are "plenty of openings all over the country."

Superintendent contracts are structured with layers of benefits and perks, allowing school systems to minimize taxpayer outcry.

Information about superintendent contracts was first reported in The Washington Post on Dec. 25. The above chart presents details of the compensation packages, including salary, cost-of-living adjustments and bonuses; deferred compensation; health, life and disability insurance; pension contributions; compensation for unused vacation time and for job-related expenses; a car and, in the case of the Prince George's and D.C. superintendents, someone to drive it.

The figures were supplied by school systems and represent actual or projected earnings.

One superintendent included in the Dec. 25 analysis, Rebecca L. Perry of Alexandria, left the job this month. Before her departure, she was drawing an annual salary of $226,243 as leader of the city's 10,570-student system. In the 2006-07 school year, she received total compensation of $285,765.

What the numbers show:


Jack D. Dale of Fairfax County receives the top salary in the region, $279,340. Michelle A. Rhee in the District ranks second at $275,000. The average salary in the region, $231,905, is more than any superintendent in the nation made a decade ago.


Weast, of Montgomery, gets the largest total compensation package, followed by Deasy of Prince George's. Michael J. Martirano of St. Mary's County collects the least in total compensation, $244,339.


The largest perk is deferred compensation, which averages about $43,930 among the superintendents, excluding Rhee, who does not receive it. Weast receives the most, $151,698. Steven L. Walts of Prince William County is second, with $72,425. Deferred compensation is money paid into retirement accounts (other than pensions) as part of a superintendent's contract.


Five superintendents will collect an average $21,172 this year in compensation for unused leave. Local superintendents get as many as 30 days' annual vacation; in many contracts, leftover days may be converted to cash.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bolger blew it Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Yes, we all wish Steve was still on the
> school
> > > board. StopRD made a HUGE mistake when they
> > > didn't endorse him. They cost him the
> election
> > > and cost parents their only voice on the
> school
> > > board. What a shame. Now we have no one who
> > > cares about what parents want for their
> > children.
> > >
> > >
> > > What did Steve say about the redistricting?
> > >
> > > I would be shocked if Stu didn't have the
> vote
> > in
> > > his pocket, 10 to 2 is my prediction. Tina
> > Hone
> > > has made it clear that she will vote against
> > > redistricting and Raney will too. The others
> > will
> > > vote with Stu. He's never cared what people
> > say
> > > about him, as has been obvious for years.
> >
> > This is so true. Steve was the only one who
> could
> > stand up and knew the issues. It was nice of
> > Bolger to remove him and then have his own
> > community taken out.
> >
> > Don't think it is 10-2 yet.
>
>
> Can anyone tell me why Bolger removed Steve? How
> did he remove him? I thought Steve made an
> excellent speech. Anytime there is a conflict, a
> compromise should be reached and in this case the
> RD should be put on hold until further
> investigation is done to study South Lakes such as
> a task force assigned to study SL. Some SL
> supporters said the boundary plan must happen NOW.
> Redistricted kids to their school NOW.

Bolger endorsed Raney over Hunt. The precincts involved in RD took the recommendation and that made the difference in the small gap between Raney in 3rd and Hunt in 4th for at large school board

Raney is good and will vote against, but Steve would have stood up to Stu more and understands the system

Steve nonetheless spoke against RD

FACTS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See what you pay Dale to screw up the FCPS system.
>
>
>
>
> By Daniel de Vise
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Thursday, January 31, 2008; Page PG04
>
> School superintendents in the Washington area will
> collect salaries ranging from $157,200 to $279,340
> in the fiscal year that ends June 30. Factor in
> benefits and perks, however, and the average
> annual compensation package swells to $351,730.
>
> Compensation for the school chiefs goes well
> beyond the salaries reported to the public,
> according to a review of contracts for 12
> superintendents in the District and its suburbs.
> Contracts routinely allow superintendents to
> collect tens of thousands in deferred compensation
> and to cash in weeks of unused leave annually.
> Superintendents enjoy supplemental insurance
> policies and retirement plans on top of the
> benefits available to all public school
> administrators.
>
> In Montgomery County, the $242,686 salary paid
> this year to School Superintendent Jerry D. Weast
> represents not quite half of a total compensation
> package valued at $489,763. John E. Deasy in
> Prince George's County will receive $424,080 in
> total compensation, with less than two-thirds
> coming from salary, according to figures provided
> by the school system.
>
> The compensation packages help school boards
> attract quality educators to a job that is
> becoming increasingly hard to fill. Superintendent
> salaries nationwide have increased by almost half
> in the past decade, in an ongoing bidding war for
> talented candidates. Superintendent tenures are
> declining, and the lengths of superintendent
> searches are growing, as top educators leave the
> field for jobs with less stress and better pay,
> according to the American Association of School
> Administrators.
>
> There are "not enough qualified superintendents,"
> said James E. Richmond, superintendent of Charles
> County schools, adding that there are "plenty of
> openings all over the country."
>
> Superintendent contracts are structured with
> layers of benefits and perks, allowing school
> systems to minimize taxpayer outcry.
>
> Information about superintendent contracts was
> first reported in The Washington Post on Dec. 25.
> The above chart presents details of the
> compensation packages, including salary,
> cost-of-living adjustments and bonuses; deferred
> compensation; health, life and disability
> insurance; pension contributions; compensation for
> unused vacation time and for job-related expenses;
> a car and, in the case of the Prince George's and
> D.C. superintendents, someone to drive it.
>
> The figures were supplied by school systems and
> represent actual or projected earnings.
>
> One superintendent included in the Dec. 25
> analysis, Rebecca L. Perry of Alexandria, left the
> job this month. Before her departure, she was
> drawing an annual salary of $226,243 as leader of
> the city's 10,570-student system. In the 2006-07
> school year, she received total compensation of
> $285,765.
>
> What the numbers show:
>
>
> Jack D. Dale of Fairfax County receives the top
> salary in the region, $279,340. Michelle A. Rhee
> in the District ranks second at $275,000. The
> average salary in the region, $231,905, is more
> than any superintendent in the nation made a
> decade ago.
>
>
> Weast, of Montgomery, gets the largest total
> compensation package, followed by Deasy of Prince
> George's. Michael J. Martirano of St. Mary's
> County collects the least in total compensation,
> $244,339.
>
>
> The largest perk is deferred compensation, which
> averages about $43,930 among the superintendents,
> excluding Rhee, who does not receive it. Weast
> receives the most, $151,698. Steven L. Walts of
> Prince William County is second, with $72,425.
> Deferred compensation is money paid into
> retirement accounts (other than pensions) as part
> of a superintendent's contract.
>
>
> Five superintendents will collect an average
> $21,172 this year in compensation for unused
> leave. Local superintendents get as many as 30
> days' annual vacation; in many contracts, leftover
> days may be converted to cash.

Guess which 2 SB secretly negotiated Jack Dale's deal and then secretly renogotiated an extension of 3 years in only the first year of his first term?

See what an out of control Jack Dale and the School Board is doing with your money in a budget year where they are short 200 million dollars.

They want to make cuts in programs and services to students, but they have money to build TAJ MAHAL after TAJ MAHAL.


They are corrupt to the bone in everything they do.




Schools To Lobby for 2nd HQ Building
HQ saves money, though not as much as expected.
Julia O'Donoghue
November 20, 2007


Fairfax County Public Schools is moving forward with plans to request funding for a second central administrative building despite predictions of a downturn in county government revenue next year.

The school system moved into its current headquarters, called Gatehouse I, in 2005 and always planned to build "Gatehouse II" on a piece of land next to the original at 8115 Gatehouse Road in Merrifield.

Putting the school system’s central administration in one location would allow staff to work more efficiently and save the county money, compared to being scattered at 17 sites across the county two years ago.

But the Board of Supervisors was skeptical and wanted to see proof of the cost savings from Gatehouse I before moving forward with Gatehouse II in 2004. They signed off on $63 million in bonds to cover the purchase of Gatehouse I and adjacent land on which Gatehouse II could be built, withholding judgment on the additional $60 million required to complete the whole project.

Next month, school officials will present hard evidence of cost savings over the past two years from the first step of its central administration’s consolidation and hopes to convince the supervisors to help construct or purchase Gatehouse II.

"We said this building would pay for itself and it has done that," said Dean Tistadt, the school system’s chief operating officer, at a school board work session Nov. 12.

Now about 650 workers are based in Gatehouse I, which is about 210,000 square feet.

Tistadt initially predicted that the purchase of Gatehouse I would result in $20 million in savings over 33 years. But data from the past two years shows actual savings of about half that, $10.3 million.

"We did self-fund it but there wasn’t as much savings as we had hoped," said Tistadt of the initial purchase.

School officials had anticipated saving about $5.8 million in telecommunications, because fewer administrative buildings would require fewer switchboards. But the consolidation results in the need for larger, more expensive switchboards, which canceled out all cost savings in this area, according to documents provided to the school board.

The original business plan also called for approximately 20 staff positions to be eliminated at the end of 2005 as a result of the consolidation. But the school system waited until 2007 to abolish 18.5 positions, costing the school system an additional $2 million.

Fewer staff members were able to move into Gatehouse I than initially thought, so some of the school system’s larger central administrative buildings had to be kept open and the system had to continue renting space, resulting in $2.8 million in additional costs, according to school board documents.

The $2.8 million could be saved once Gatehouse II is opened and the larger administrative centers can be closed or used for different purposes, said Tistadt.
"I have learned a lot from phase I," he said.

School board members at last week’s work session were supportive of moving forward with the funding request for Gatehouse II, even if the savings were not as great as they had been told two years ago.

"You always overestimate the savings," said school board member Tessie Wilson (Braddock). Other "non-cash benefits" like an increase in efficiency should be factored into the benefits of the consolidation, she said.

Though he supported the project, at least one school board member worried the supervisors and public might not see the benefits of a second administrative building.

"The biggest challenge we have is the credibility gap. What we have done is not as clear cut to the community and Board of Supervisors," said school board president Dan Storck (Mount Vernon).

The school system should present the information so that it is clear that, in addition to saving money, the school system also avoided new costs by purchasing Gatehouse I, said school board member Phil Niedzielski-Eichner (Providence).

Though the county purchased land so a new building could be constructed, the school system is also considering purchasing an existing building next door, said Tistadt.

Recently vacated by the Red Cross, the existing building is larger than originally envisioned for Gatehouse II but Tistadt said the school system has identified more programs it could move into the space to make the purchase cost efficient.

Gatehouse II was originally planned to be 170,000 square feet, to house another 650 staff. The site is approved for another 210,000 square foot building that could house about 750 staff.

The Red Cross building is 270,000 square feet, and could house as many as 800 – 1000 employees.

speakerbox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was a sophomore and in pre-IB algebra II, I
> had some issues with my teacher. Her teaching
> style did not fit with my learning style and my
> grades were suffering because of it. I went to my
> guidance counselor to see if I could switch out of
> that class into another teachers, or into reagular
> algebra II. Unfortunately, there was no other
> teacher teaching pre-IB algebra II and all of the
> regular algebra II classes were full or at times I
> could not change my schdule around to fit (becuase
> it was the same deal with my other classes). This
> is the kind of situation that occurs all the time
> at South Lakes due to a lack of students. If more
> students had been in pre-IB algrebra II, maybe we
> would have had another teacher for it. Think of
> what this must be like for students who have even
> more serious problems in classes. Either they have
> to deal with it which is detrimental to their
> grades and their mental state, or they have to
> switch their entire schedule around and may miss
> out on other classes that were working out for
> them (like being forced to switch another class
> from pre-IB to regular when they might be
> excelling in that subject area). Increased course
> offerings does not just mean elective classes, it
> means offering more periods of the same classes so
> that students dont get stuck the way I did.


this happens everywhere not just at SLHS. having more students does not mean it gets better

speakerbox - time to man-up

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> speakerbox - time to man-up


im a girl...?

Think about that....just think about that!

SLGrad:

I'm sorry you had this kind of experience. If there was "inflexiblity" it was probably because there were not enough students to provide courses or course sections so you could take something else. You also did not have to take the certificate program, which has requirements in the courses you need to take. You could have taken any of those courses as general ed courses or as SL courses.

Knowing the IB curriculum as I do, it simply isn't true to say SL is just like HL. There really is a big difference in the pace and content coverage. Maybe it seemed that way to you.

As for "getting rid of IB" -- there simply is not a big movement at SLHS to do so. There IS a movement to get stand-alone AP and IB courses in there -- which can happen only after we get the 200 kids a year or so over the next four years to make that happen.

Finally, my son's experience with IB has left him only knowing about AP from friends and his brother. He has no idea what kind of book/content-cramming AP requires -- and it is substantive. His brother constantly complained that he had to race through books without ever delving into them, all for the exams in the end. And that the teachers didn't like using the science books because they were pretty bad, instead supplementing them, but the kids had to schlepp through the books anyway -- for the exams.

My IB son learned to love to read through IB because the material sparked lively and deep review and analysis. The kids spent time on books -- in all classes -- and on the themes that connected them.

Finally, about 75% of a course's success depends on the quality of the teacher. AP, IB, you name it. Good teachers = good courses. Great teachers = great courses. Poor teachers = yucchy courses.



southlakesgraduate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would be all for reinstating AP at South Lakes
> and also adding honors classes. I found the IB
> program to be inflexible and too time consuming. I
> took IB english, math, history, and art in the
> certificate program. It really bothered me that
> there were no honors classes in the middle and so
> I was forced to take either an extremely
> challenging IB class or a basically "free period"
> in the subjects I was not as interested in
> (english and science). Pressure to take the most
> challending classes in order to get into a top
> college made me have to choose between a "C" in IB
> english or science or an "A" in what seemed to be
> the looked down upon by colleges gen ed class.
>
> IB was not all bad though. Looking back, I have
> become an excellent writer and I definately credit
> the IB program for that. I am able to write papers
> at a faster pace and they turn out to be more
> coherant with fewer revisions than a lot of my AP
> school counterparts. I never thought of myself as
> a good writer until I got to college and saw that
> my abilities were stronger than others.
>
> Another point to make: Even though I am not a huge
> fan of IB, I find myself getting defensive when
> posters bash it. I have figured out that this is
> not because I actually care about IB (look at my
> experiences), but IB is a part of South Lakes and
> so my head sometimes wrongly puts the two
> together. This could be part of why some SL
> posters get so defensive. I know my parents would
> have loved to do away with IB while my siblings
> and I were at South Lakes, Im sure there are many
> more parents out there who are willing to do the
> same.

IB Veritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLGrad:
>
> I'm sorry you had this kind of experience. If
> there was "inflexiblity" it was probably because
> there were not enough students to provide courses
> or course sections so you could take something
> else. You also did not have to take the
> certificate program, which has requirements in the
> courses you need to take. You could have taken any
> of those courses as general ed courses or as SL
> courses.

That is what I did, hence "certificate" not "diploma". There are no course requirements for the certificate.

>
> Knowing the IB curriculum as I do, it simply isn't
> true to say SL is just like HL. There really is a
> big difference in the pace and content coverage.
> Maybe it seemed that way to you.

Go talk to Pat Zylka, maybe she wont be straight with you because you are a parent but she told our SL english class that we should be taking HL because the only difference is one book.

>
> As for "getting rid of IB" -- there simply is not
> a big movement at SLHS to do so. There IS a
> movement to get stand-alone AP and IB courses in
> there -- which can happen only after we get the
> 200 kids a year or so over the next four years to
> make that happen.

There may not be a "movement" to do so, but I bet you many parents would be in favor of the idea, should it come up as a possibility.

>
> Finally, my son's experience with IB has left him
> only knowing about AP from friends and his
> brother. He has no idea what kind of
> book/content-cramming AP requires -- and it is
> substantive. His brother constantly complained
> that he had to race through books without ever
> delving into them,

We raced through books in IB as well

all for the exams in the end.
> And that the teachers didn't like using the
> science books because they were pretty bad,
> instead supplementing them, but the kids had to
> schlepp through the books anyway -- for the exams.
>
>
> My IB son learned to love to read through IB
> because the material sparked lively and deep
> review and analysis. The kids spent time on books
> -- in all classes -- and on the themes that
> connected them.

Congratulations to your son, I was already an avid reader and don't remember "lively and deep review" in class...its high school. Most people did what they could to get through the material to get a grade, never actually being told how to do analysis or caring about the books we were readong, often traslated from other languages and not very good.

>
> Finally, about 75% of a course's success depends
> on the quality of the teacher. AP, IB, you name
> it. Good teachers = good courses. Great teachers =
> great courses. Poor teachers = yucchy courses.

I agree.

IB Veritas Wrote:
> ... Knowing the IB curriculum as I do, it simply isn't
> true to say SL is just like HL.
>
> ... Finally, about 75% of a course's success depends
> on the quality of the teacher. AP, IB, you name
> it. Good teachers = good courses. Great teachers =
> great courses. Poor teachers = yucchy courses.
>
>
-------------------
SLV,
I disagree with a lot of what you write, but on these two points we agree.

Forum Reader Wrote:
> SLV,
> I disagree with a lot of what you write, but on these two points we agree.

[Sorry - obviously I meant IBV - I hit "Post" instead of Preview."]

I will concede though, SL vs. HL math, there is definately a difference.

southlakesgraduate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most people did what
> they could to get through the material to get a
> grade, never actually being told how to do
> analysis or caring about the books we were
> readong, often traslated from other languages and
> not very good.


Do you mean the translations weren't good, or the novels weren't? What books did you read?

uh oh...

looks like southlakesgraduate missed the "Stepford Seahawks" induction process and has gone off the reservation...

I'm sure IBVeritas will be back soon to explain why this poor unfortunate graduate didn't actually experience the things (s)he says (s)he did and missed a few of the inherently wonderful aspects of IB...since, of course, it's not just an educational program with strengths and weaknesses, but rather its an unassailable lifestyle choice that can tolerate no criticism. Unlike AP, which is of course just an educational program with strengths and weaknesses.

I've mentioned this this before. There are parents in the SL pyramid, both current and future, who would be interesting in a discussion regarding adding AP classes (which is happening anyway) or moving to AP altogether.

I don't agree that all the SB members LOVE IB. I've met with some of them and they specifically asked if we (SL parents) would entertain AP. Many in the room said that they would. Like any group, there are some huge IB supporters, other AP supporters, and others who simply believe it doesn't make much difference to the education of their child. But the SB members asked and we're beholden to any program.

But please understand this. There are significant numbers of parents at SL who would add AP, either to supplement or supplant IB, especially if it would appease redistricted parents.

Well don't get me wrong. I am a seahawk through and through. I disagree greatly with those who use poor test scores and "violence" as the reason they will not send their children to South Lakes. And also those who call South Lakes a "not so great school." It is hard to understand how the vast majority of people I know could turn out as successful as they are coming from a school that some of you describe. But I do understand that people do not want to leave the school community they are familiar with.

Future SL Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> But please understand this. There are significant
> numbers of parents at SL who would add AP, either
> to supplement or supplant IB, especially if it
> would appease redistricted parents.


I agree - I am also a future SL parent and would prefer AP or a combined IB/AP offering.

Anyone else enjoy the delicious irony of the Stepfords wailing about how undiverse Westfield & Chantilly are to all of the 1st generation FairfaxCAPS speakers?

Ok, folks, I am watching the second public hearing regarding the boundary study and I wanted to let those have not seen the hearing yet..two speakers came..one of them was Robert Simon, founder of Reston. He supported the redistricting, wanted South Lakes to have more student and didn't mention those two Reston schools that are in the Herndon district. It is a shame that North and South Reston won't be unified as one Reston. The second speaker, her name is Erica Castro, she was mentioned in a couple of newspaper articles, I believe and she is from the Fox Mill community. She strongly supported the redistricting and said she will make sure Fox Mill goes to South Lakes, said why bus 10 miles to Oakton when it is 4 miles from South Lakes? She said she will bring her petition next week to the school board. Does anybody from Fox Mill agree that it takes at least 10 miles to Oakton from Fox Mill? I remember driving to Oakton HS from the Fox Mill area once and it did not feel like 10 miles to me. Some things are just screwed up for example, North Reston students going to Langley 18 some miles?

I have to chuckle on this. Many pro-SL folks seems to have a habit of using distorted information, maybe thinking if told 1000 times, it'll become truth.

Also, I'm not sure I get it when someone there pleads please do not read too much in the numbers, because they are just numbers -- well they have another name, they are called FACTS. I can't believe someone asks the board please ignore the facts.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone else enjoy the delicious irony of the
> Stepfords wailing about how undiverse Westfield &
> Chantilly are to all of the 1st generation
> FairfaxCAPS speakers?


Are you watching "Lost"? The hearings are on Ch. 21.

Duke v NC State on Channel 20

I find it ironic that the pro-SL crowd waxes poetic about the merits of the IB program and its emphasis on critical thinking, while at the same time lapsing into "groupthink" -- insinuating racist motives on the part of our community, claiming "victimhood" for their school, and straining logic while parroting the line that more students will improve the education there. Never mind the facts!

More inspired leadership and more accountability of the staff and administration will do much, much more to help SLHS than perpetuating a culture of victimization and coercing a few hundred students into going there.

If SLHS turns its reputation around and becomes an outperforming school as a result of real improvements, I would not oppose redistricting and in fact would support it. In that case, who wouldn't want their kids to attend?

Word: 2 points

Padre: 0

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone explain why with similar number of
> teachers as Madsion and about 500 less students,
> Madison students doesn't have the complain? Is it
> because such issues is everywhere, we just didn't
> hear it, or is it because something else not
> solely related to student numbers?
>
> I remeber someone take into consideration of
> special ed students, and assign them with 1:5
> ratio, that still shows SL has a much better
> student/tearcher ration. Then why courses cannot
> be offered with seemingly enough teachers compared
> to other schools? IB unfortunately became one to
> blame -- at least this is the obvious difference
> that stands out.

Dr Dale said that South Lakes gets extra funding for more staff because it is a small school with special needs. Four high schools in the county get this extra funding, SL, Falls Church, Marshall, and Stuart. Three of those four also get extra funding because they are IB programs. So SL has much more staffing than the other high schools. That makes it even more difficult to understand why they need more students when they already have more teachers than the other schools.

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to chuckle on this. Many pro-SL folks seems
> to have a habit of using distorted information,
> maybe thinking if told 1000 times, it'll become
> truth.
>
> Also, I'm not sure I get it when someone there
> pleads please do not read too much in the numbers,
> because they are just numbers -- well they have
> another name, they are called FACTS. I can't
> believe someone asks the board please ignore the
> facts.

So much for their ability to think critically!

In reality, there is no more 'aging in place' in Reston than in any other area of the county. Vienna has more older people who have aged in place than Reston, yet Madison has not lost 500+ students over the last 10 years.

Nor does South Lakes have fewer classes and choices than any other high school. The only inequity is that South Lakes gets MORE funding than the other schools and has a LOWER teacher to pupil ratio than the other schools. While that isn't fair to those at other high schools, they aren't whining about it.

The SL community bought these arguments, and promoted them, without ever looking at the facts. Now they are scrambling to find a way to counter the facts. That will be difficult.

WHAT A MESS YOU HAVE MADE OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS IN THE WESTERN COUNTY AREA SCHOOLS.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO STUDENTS, PARENTS AND FAMILIES.

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it ironic that the pro-SL crowd waxes
> poetic about the merits of the IB program and its
> emphasis on critical thinking, while at the same
> time lapsing into "groupthink" -- insinuating
> racist motives on the part of our community,
> claiming "victimhood" for their school, and
> straining logic while parroting the line that more
> students will improve the education there. Never
> mind the facts!
>
> More inspired leadership and more accountability
> of the staff and administration will do much, much
> more to help SLHS than perpetuating a culture of
> victimization and coercing a few hundred students
> into going there.
>
> If SLHS turns its reputation around and becomes an
> outperforming school as a result of real
> improvements, I would not oppose redistricting and
> in fact would support it. In that case, who
> wouldn't want their kids to attend?

UMMMM.........are you saying that they need to make SL a school that people WANT to attend rather than a school that they are FORCED to attend? Good thinking.

Every adult living in the Madison Island, now or at any time in the past hundred yeras, has testified at least twice at these hearings.

Which one among them came up with the brillant idea to wear green tee shirts, one of South Lakes colors, instead of red or black, Madison's colors.

As you know the people who are making presentations to you have deep passion and truly believe in what they are saying either for or against new boundary lines.

What is unacceptable is that some of the school board members decorum is less then appropriate. You know who you are.

Board members should look at the person who is making a presentation and stop using your computer or checking your cell phone messages.

Board members should reduce the amount of levity during the meeting and stop rushing people thru the process.

At times you have as many as five empty chairs during some presentations. This is unacceptable.

You have serious problems regarding this redistricting proposal and these problems need to be addressed by serious board members.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teacher changes should be the exception rather
> than the rule, since schools won't typically offer
> multiple unfillod sections of the same course ating
> the same time. Even at Robinson, anecdotally we
> hear that you can't always change teachers
> easily...why would you expect this would be the
> case at South Lakes when realistically you're only
> looking at adding a bit over 100 students / class
> year?

That shouldn't be a problem because SL gets extra funding as small school with a special needs population AND even more extra funding because it is IB. I doubt transferring between classes is an issue at SL because they have so many more teachers and smaller classes due to the extra funding. Dr. Dale said that extra funding will remain in the budget for next year.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duke v NC State on Channel 20

Duke's Puke and NC State is the team we all hate.

Go Terps!

Avenger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, we all wish Steve was still on the school
> > board. StopRD made a HUGE mistake when they
> > didn't endorse him. They cost him the election
> > and cost parents their only voice on the school
> > board. What a shame. Now we have no one who
> > cares about what parents want for their
> children.
> >
> >
> > What did Steve say about the redistricting?
> >
> > I would be shocked if Stu didn't have the vote
> in
> > his pocket, 10 to 2 is my prediction. Tina
> Hone
> > has made it clear that she will vote against
> > redistricting and Raney will too. The others
> will
> > vote with Stu. He's never cared what people
> say
> > about him, as has been obvious for years.
>
> You elected them, now you have to live with them.

Yes, exactly. Voters should have done their homework before they voted.

news watcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If that lady from the SLPTSA is going to be the
> spokesperson for SLHS she really should get to a
> hair salon some time soon or at least buy a brush.

Who are you referring to?

Stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Hunt was terrible when it came to the South
> County '05 debacle. He supported two terrible
> last-minute amendments that overcrowded SCSS AND
> West Springfield HS (who was not even part of the
> boundary study).

Did Stu also support those last minute amendments? I wonder if there will be any such last minute amendments this time?

South Lakes ruled tonight. They were the only original thinkers in the whole bunch.

Westfield Dad, South Lakes' diversity is not defined by wealthy minorities living in Monroe Manor and Meadow Hall. Please tell me, what was diverse about the Fairfax CAPS presentations? The same cherry-picked data over and over and over again.

Madison Island, the 579 reasons could have been condensed to one presenter to save the School Board and audience from absolute boredom.

Dan Carney's speech yesterday was the best, though. If this goes through as proposed, you can thank his smarmy, mean-spirited, and offensive speech for being the nail in the coffin of your fate.

FACT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bolger blew it Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Yes, we all wish Steve was still on the
> school
> > > board. StopRD made a HUGE mistake when they
> > > didn't endorse him. They cost him the
> election
> > > and cost parents their only voice on the
> school
> > > board. What a shame. Now we have no one who
> > > cares about what parents want for their
> > children.
> > >
> > >
> > > What did Steve say about the redistricting?
> > >
> > > I would be shocked if Stu didn't have the
> vote
> > in
> > > his pocket, 10 to 2 is my prediction. Tina
> > Hone
> > > has made it clear that she will vote against
> > > redistricting and Raney will too. The others
> > will
> > > vote with Stu. He's never cared what people
> > say
> > > about him, as has been obvious for years.
> >
> > This is so true. Steve was the only one who
> could
> > stand up and knew the issues. It was nice of
> > Bolger to remove him and then have his own
> > community taken out.
> >
> > Don't think it is 10-2 yet.
>
>
> If the above is true, everything that has taken
> place to date has been a complete waste of time,
> because the FIX is in by Gibson.

Of course. It's his district. He decides what happens in it. It's like any other political body. They don't mess around in each other's districts. Tom Davis doesn't make decisions for things in Frank Wolf's district. If Frank wants something for his district, Tom would usually go along with it. Tom wouldn't want Frank making decisions for his district so he won't mess around Frank's district. It's not his business. The school board is the same way. If Stu thinks SL needs redistricting, the other members aren't going to say that it doesn't. It's not their district, it's his.

I almost forgot to add how much we loved the rude behavior of some of the Island folk who cleared their throats and made rude noises when South Lakes speakers were at the lectern. I'm sure that will help their cause with the SB.

SL Stepford,
I was so impressed with the SL speeches tonight, I couldn't believe it. We did rule!

Sorry I missed Carney's speech last night. What did he say?

Really? Those noises did not come across on television tonight. I guess they are upset that you are making them leave their home schools.

Carney, did what he does best, and he acted like a sideshow at a carney. He was extremely rude to Gibson, was gratuitously mean in his comments, and presented in a nasty and downright ugly and angry tone of voice.

He was spanked pretty well by Dan Stork, which was awesome to watch. I don't think he did his side any favors, and they should be disgusted with him.

Other presenters, on all sides, were generally courteous and respectful of other's views.

SL Stepford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes ruled tonight. They were the only
> original thinkers in the whole bunch.
>
> Westfield Dad, South Lakes' diversity is not
> defined by wealthy minorities living in Monroe
> Manor and Meadow Hall. Please tell me, what was
> diverse about the Fairfax CAPS presentations? The
> same cherry-picked data over and over and over
> again.
>
> Madison Island, the 579 reasons could have been
> condensed to one presenter to save the School
> Board and audience from absolute boredom.
>
> Dan Carney's speech yesterday was the best,
> though. If this goes through as proposed, you can
> thank his smarmy, mean-spirited, and offensive
> speech for being the nail in the coffin of your
> fate.

How is diversity defined?

I thought the north Madison folks were great, especially the guy with the facts about Vienna aging much more than Reston. Jody Bennett was great too.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really? Those noises did not come across on
> television tonight. I guess they are upset that
> you are making them leave their home schools.

No excuse for boorish behavior and you know it.

SL Stepford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carney, did what he does best, and he acted like a
> sideshow at a carney. He was extremely rude to
> Gibson, was gratuitously mean in his comments, and
> presented in a nasty and downright ugly and angry
> tone of voice.
>
> He was spanked pretty well by Dan Stork, which was
> awesome to watch. I don't think he did his side
> any favors, and they should be disgusted with him.
>
>
> Other presenters, on all sides, were generally
> courteous and respectful of other's views.

Darn. I am sorry that I missed that part. It would be nice to see someone being rude to Stu. Turnabout is long overdue. He's been so rude to so many people.

There is socio-economic diversity.

SL Stepford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Really? Those noises did not come across on
> > television tonight. I guess they are upset
> that
> > you are making them leave their home schools.
>
> No excuse for boorish behavior and you know it.

That is so true. I do hope that someone will share that sentiment with Stu.

SL Stepford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is socio-economic diversity.

Ok. And so what? Doesn't every school have some with money and some with less money? Or did you mean something else?

G'night, Neen. I'll leave you to your midnight musings. All in all, a good night.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More,
> > You mentioned, some pages back, the low
> percentage
> > of 4 year graduates at some Virginia state
> > Universities.
> >
> > These are the very students who need as many AP
> > credits as they can get, so that they can
> graduate
> > from college as soon as possible.
>
> Please forgive me, if you, any student or parent
> of a student at one of Va's underperforming
> univerisities inferred a criticism of them instead
> of an indictment of the schools.
>
> It is the administrators of the schools that blame
> the low graduation rates on their student body.
> That's obviously ridiculous since it is the
> administrators who set the GPA and SAT criteria so
> high and chose the students in the first place.
>
> Your observation regarding socio-economic factors
> is worth considering. However, other states seem
> to be able to get their kids from the same class
> through school in less time.
>
> Comparable schools in nearby states, PA and NC,
> have much higher graduation rates with kids whose
> credentials are not nearly as demanding as the
> comparable VA schools previously listed. The
> examples are too numerous to name.

Perhaps, but that is not true in comparable Maryland schools.

Seriously, the kids at the schools I mentioned all have to work to get through school.

I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our schoool really needs some kids that are smart. Gen Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are really struggling. I think if we had smart kids from Fox Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these underperforming kids at our school would be learning from them. I am sorry that we have to drag you into our problems but it is necessary.

SL Stepford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes ruled tonight. They were the only
> original thinkers in the whole bunch.
>
> Westfield Dad, South Lakes' diversity is not
> defined by wealthy minorities living in Monroe

For the "original thinkers" out there, let's try a thought experiment. Since the SL community wants their students to become part of a bigger school, how would they feel about closing it, breaking the student body apart, and moving the students to become part of the 5 neighboring schools? Now you know how we feel.

Oh, and as one of the so-called wealthy minorities, just know that we started with nothing, and only through a lot of hard work did we get to the point to be able to live in this neighborhood. I don't feel guilty about my "wealth" at all.

So, when you had nothing, did you welcome help and acceptance from those you wished to emulate? Be proud of your accomplishments; you deserve your 'wealth.' You worked hard for it.

Just remember, there are those not blessed with your abilities, those which helped you succeed.

First check your spelling, or are you just being master minded and repeat the chants without even knowing the contents? It is Floris.

I watched Robert Simon's speech. Though I respect him and his dream, but I can't help thinking how this poor gentlement probably gets an earful of one sided opinion and thinking he's salvaging his baby. Did he know his baby is seperated in two and North Reston wants nothing to do with SLH?


SL Supporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> schoool really needs some kids that are smart. Gen
> Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are really
> struggling. I think if we had smart kids from Fox
> Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> underperforming kids at our school would be
> learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> drag you into our problems but it is necessary.

Isn't SL already getting special funding, extra tearcher/staff, a TERRIFIC IB program that cost about twice of the AP program? Please face it, if you keep saying there is no problems w/ SL, keeps argue all is because of aging, and asks the school board to please ignore data not supporting your argument, how can you expect additional number of kids can magically solve the issue?

Who said it? Please have an open mind. Well, it is a mind opener for me when SL expects other kids to fix their issue. Then maybe you pick the wrong target again: the "advantaged" kids indeed have the advantage to leave.

SL Supporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> schoool really needs some kids that are smart. Gen
> Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are really
> struggling. I think if we had smart kids from Fox
> Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> underperforming kids at our school would be
> learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> drag you into our problems but it is necessary.


Uh? YOu are dragging a handful of "smart" kids from these targeted communities to come to SL and and help fix the problems? This is stupid. Let me ask you this, how is this going to be beneficial to BOTH SIDES, let's picture this in a raw figure, plucking newly redistricted nine-graders in while these General Ed students who have moved on to the next grade learn their courses, HOW ARE THE 9TH GRADERS GOING TO HELP THE OLDER STUDENTS SUCCEED? This is where I still get baffled. I watched the public hearing tonight and yes I saw Robert Simon's speech. While I respect him, I couldn't help but wonder if somebody did coach him with his speech..he wanted SL to have more kids, but did not say anything about North and South Reston being united as one. I saw how Stu smiled when Simon was introduced to the podium. Also these SL supporters kept saying SL kept lacking equal access to programs--EXACTLY what are the SL supporters talking about these programs? Also somebody from tonight's hearing mentioned about how the SL teachers were stretched thin with teaching these students maybe I heard it wrong, but it sounded like it and I thought, didn't they have a sufficient ratio of teachers to students at SL? I think in all fairness for everybody, is to have a task force study South Lakes before rushing into redistricting. This process sound rushed in my opinion. For you to say your school has underperforming students, that is a shame because these students can achieve with the right kind of support from their teachers, parents, the community, not snatch "smart" kids from other communities to help fix your problems as you stated.

South Lakes has a higher ratio of teachers to students than all the surrounding schools. They have a much bigger staff to pupil ratio. They have MORE than equal access. SL gets extra funding because it is small school AND because it is IB. Only three other high schools in the county get both of those extra fundings.

I've yet to understand how these high performing students will help those low performing students at South Lakes. Perhaps the low performing kids are not the issue, but they should be. They should have been prepared to compete long before they got to high school, but they weren't.

Stu LOVES Robert Simon.

Stu LOVES Robert Simon.


Enough said.

i support redistricting and even i know stu's a tool.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps, but that is not true in comparable Maryland schools.

Actually UMBC, Towson, Salibury & Frostburg all do better than CNU, ODU, VCU & GMU at getting kids with lower high school GPAs & SATs out in 4 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2008 06:47AM by Thomas More.

I'm torn, in that the board is right to expect respectful discussions...though its OK for SL folks to imply that those against the redistricting are racists...this from an SL teacher no less...but the crack about South Lakes being the Stu Gibson shrine was pretty funny.

After watching channel 21 for two nights, I have the following questions for the

students and parents of western fairfax county.

What makes you think that this proposal to redistrict will fix any of the

problems in you area.

Is it not true that the SB has redistrict your area almost ten times and the

mess just keeps getting worse.

Any answers?

SB

Please tell me why you are not doing boundary studies for the following schools, when you are doing one for the western fairfax county area due to uncapacity at South Lakes. 1443

The below schools are all under capacity and also need to be fixed.


STUART 1546

MOUNT VERNON 1758

McLEAN 1768

MARSHALL 1325

LEE 1875

HAYFIELD 1582

FALLS CHURCH 1318

EDISON 1776

Please tell me one more time why Langley is not included?

FACTS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SB
>
> Please tell me why you are not doing boundary
> studies for the following schools, when you are
> doing one for the western fairfax county area due
> to uncapacity at South Lakes. 1443
>
> The below schools are all under capacity and also
> need to be fixed.
>
>
> STUART 1546
>
> MOUNT VERNON 1758
>
> McLEAN 1768
>
> MARSHALL 1325
>
> LEE 1875
>
> HAYFIELD 1582
>
> FALLS CHURCH 1318
>
> EDISON 1776
>
> Please tell me one more time why Langley is not
> included?


This is what many of us have been asking about, why Langley has not been included. Their excuse was that Langley is getting an addition at a cost of something around $7.1 million dollars so FCPS decided to keep that out of the study which was stupid.

SL Supporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> schoool really needs some kids that are smart. Gen
> Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are really
> struggling. I think if we had smart kids from Fox
> Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> underperforming kids at our school would be
> learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> drag you into our problems but it is necessary.

Please explain this passage. Totalitarianism at its best.
Just imagine if you could round up the Langley kids (which
you could never do even with the power of the state behind you)
how brilliant the underperfomers would become(through osmosis?)

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Supporter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> > schoool really needs some kids that are smart.
> Gen
> > Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are
> really
> > struggling. I think if we had smart kids from
> Fox
> > Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> > underperforming kids at our school would be
> > learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> > drag you into our problems but it is necessary.
>
>
> Uh? YOu are dragging a handful of "smart" kids
> from these targeted communities to come to SL and
> and help fix the problems? This is stupid. Let
> me ask you this, how is this going to be




- Goofy testimony underestimates mileage to Langley from residences [greater than 12 miles]
- Madison Island unites when it is composed of disparate areas and shows up in Seahawk Green custom Tshirts
-some areas who bought for Aldrin got boundary changed to Forest Edge and now want to preserve escape hatches as evidenced by petition for Madison, advocating for South Lakes to be overstuffed from the other side of the attendance area?
-Westfield addition is most expensive interim construction trailer ever.
-Portions of McNair and East Floris could go to Herndon but Aldrin might have to move. Seems like a lot of Asian families who want AP math and science are undesireable to Herndon AP. Need demographics on specific areas -Floris 40% Asian.
-is South Lakes offering 3 levels of select core courses unlike AP schools who only have regualr and AP? The levels would be basic, IB lower level, IB higher level. What's with the French 3/4/IB class? Why can't IB French be the same as 3/4?

Even with extra teachers, South Lakes needs enough high-achieving students who are likely to sign up for (and not drop) the more academically challenging classes. Otherwise, South Lakes will continue to not offer some classes, like HL Physics. And, it will combine multiple groups into one classroom, and expect the teacher to somehow teach two or more classes at once.

It is common in FCPS for schools to cancel classes due to lack of interest. Madison HS students have been told that they could not have AP Computer Science in past years due to lack of interest. TJ has cancelled classes when too few students signed up. And most or all FCPS schools have some advanced classes with only one or two sections, which creates scheduling conflicts for students.

These scheduling problems are worse in some schools than in others. It's a lot easier for students to take multiple advanced classes if there are three or more sections of those classes offered in their high school. From what students have posted here, it sounds like high-achieving South Lakes students have less flexibility than high-achieving students in other FCPS schools for this purpose.

Perhaps proponents and opponents of redistricting would benefit from obtaining information from FCPS for all high schools about the number of sections of advanced classes, how many students are enrolled in those classes, and how many of those classes are combined with other classes, which seems to be an issue at South Lakes HS.



> SL Supporter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> > schoool really needs some kids that are smart.
> Gen
> > Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are
> really
> > struggling. I think if we had smart kids from
> Fox
> > Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> > underperforming kids at our school would be
> > learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> > drag you into our problems but it is necessary.

Is the rumor that Oakton High School has a prescription drug problem true? AKA Students at Oakton using illegal prescription drugs(Xanax, Zoloft, Paxil)?

Do you know Floris has 40% Asian and east floris has even high rate than that? Do you really know the culture of Asian? When it down to their kids, nothing can change their mind. They will do whatever they can no matter what the cost is. For most families, Ivy League Universities are the goals for their kids, UVA is the last option. And most of the parents are engineers and most of their kids are very good at math and science.

Do you really think you can get any kids from these families? Let me tell you almost none of them will send their kids to an IB school. They need college credits earned from AP to get their kids to their dream schools.

One thing I can tell you, this redistricting is a total waste, you will never get what you want. Even it goes thrugh, so what? Nothing changes, just move to another place or rent or even better, to invest another house somewhere. No big deal. But one thing for sure, no kids will go to SL, period.

SL Supporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> schoool really needs some kids that are smart. Gen
> Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are really
> struggling. I think if we had smart kids from Fox
> Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> underperforming kids at our school would be
> learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> drag you into our problems but it is necessary.

Kwatason (aka jackass) - Is the rumor that South Lakes High School is full of crack addicts and junkies true? AKA Students at South Lakes using cocaine and heroine.

EastFloris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you know Floris has 40% Asian and east floris
> has even high rate than that? Do you really know
> the culture of Asian? When it down to their kids,
> nothing can change their mind. They will do
> whatever they can no matter what the cost is. For
> most families, Ivy League Universities are the
> goals for their kids, UVA is the last option. And
> most of the parents are engineers and most of
> their kids are very good at math and science.
>
> Do you really think you can get any kids from
> these families? Let me tell you almost none of
> them will send their kids to an IB school. They
> need college credits earned from AP to get their
> kids to their dream schools.
>
> One thing I can tell you, this redistricting is a
> total waste, you will never get what you want.
> Even it goes thrugh, so what? Nothing changes,
> just move to another place or rent or even better,
> to invest another house somewhere. No big deal.
> But one thing for sure, no kids will go to SL,
> period.
>
> SL Supporter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> > schoool really needs some kids that are smart.
> Gen
> > Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are
> really
> > struggling. I think if we had smart kids from
> Fox
> > Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> > underperforming kids at our school would be
> > learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> > drag you into our problems but it is necessary.

So East Floris is over 40% Asian and they want AP not IB for their children. What is the percentage Asian at various neighborhoods going to McNair? My guess is many Asian families are at Westfield McNair. Is their an element of discrimination on country of origin on by Herndon's Aldrin and Armstrong groupies and the South Lakes groupies ? PS-I think South Lakes should be used but not overfilled and it's becoming apparent that this relatively new Asian community is going to be a scapegoat for a long term demogrpahic flight from South Lakes.

I use the term scapegoat since they have had multiple boundary changes while Herndon feeders like Aldrin have never had any. Hmmm now I'm wondering if some North Point mamas don't want the studious Asians at Herndon where they might put perform their kiddies academically. And are any Asians in band, orchestra, debate, sports,etc? Will North Point parents lose their perceived monopoly? Are most of the Herndon pupil placements from South Lakes coming from those neighborhoods that go to Forest Edhe but border Aldrin?

The plot thickens.

?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EastFloris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you know Floris has 40% Asian and east
> floris
> > has even high rate than that? Do you really
> know
> > the culture of Asian? When it down to their
> kids,
> > nothing can change their mind. They will do
> > whatever they can no matter what the cost is.
> For
> > most families, Ivy League Universities are the
> > goals for their kids, UVA is the last option.
> And
> > most of the parents are engineers and most of
> > their kids are very good at math and science.
> >
> > Do you really think you can get any kids from
> > these families? Let me tell you almost none of
> > them will send their kids to an IB school. They
> > need college credits earned from AP to get
> their
> > kids to their dream schools.
> >
> > One thing I can tell you, this redistricting is
> a
> > total waste, you will never get what you want.
> > Even it goes thrugh, so what? Nothing changes,
> > just move to another place or rent or even
> better,
> > to invest another house somewhere. No big deal.
> > But one thing for sure, no kids will go to SL,
> > period.
> >
> > SL Supporter Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> > > schoool really needs some kids that are
> smart.
> > Gen
> > > Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are
> > really
> > > struggling. I think if we had smart kids from
> > Fox
> > > Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> > > underperforming kids at our school would be
> > > learning from them. I am sorry that we have
> to
> > > drag you into our problems but it is
> necessary.
>
> So East Floris is over 40% Asian and they want AP
> not IB for their children. What is the percentage
> Asian at various neighborhoods going to McNair?
> My guess is many Asian families are at Westfield
> McNair. Is their an element of discrimination on
> country of origin on by Herndon's Aldrin and
> Armstrong groupies and the South Lakes groupies ?
> PS-I think South Lakes should be used but not
> overfilled and it's becoming apparent that this
> relatively new Asian community is going to be a
> scapegoat for a long term demogrpahic flight from
> South Lakes.
>
> I use the term scapegoat since they have had
> multiple boundary changes while Herndon feeders
> like Aldrin have never had any. Hmmm now I'm
> wondering if some North Point mamas don't want the
> studious Asians at Herndon where they might put
> perform their kiddies academically. And are any
> Asians in band, orchestra, debate, sports,etc?
> Will North Point parents lose their perceived
> monopoly? Are most of the Herndon pupil
> placements from South Lakes coming from those
> neighborhoods that go to Forest Edhe but border
> Aldrin?
>
> The plot thickens.


FYI



The racial breakdown among all FCPS students is as follows:

White 50.2%
Asian 17.40%
Black 10.80%
Latino 16.00%
Other 4.90%

SL Stepford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Carney's speech yesterday was the best,
> though. If this goes through as proposed, you can
> thank his smarmy, mean-spirited, and offensive
> speech for being the nail in the coffin of your
> fate.


Is it possible to get a transcript of Carney's comments? I had the SB hearing set to record on my DVR (yes, I am pathetic), but someone at my house decided to record Lost instead.

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> For the "original thinkers" out there, let's try a
> thought experiment. Since the SL community wants
> their students to become part of a bigger school,
> how would they feel about closing it, breaking the
> student body apart, and moving the students to
> become part of the 5 neighboring schools? Now you
> know how we feel.

OK, deal. Let's move out. I am tired of the school being dragged through the mud. I live close to Madison, so it won't be a problem.

The real question is, does the SB believe SL is a good school?

If yes, then go ahead and redraw the boundary. All the students will do fine and get a good education. If not, then let's close it, and send the SL students to the other "great" schools.

But don't give us the third option: it isn't good enough to send any new students, but the existing ones are stuck there. Sorry, but don't tell me it is beneath Fox Mill, but OK for Hunters Woods. The argument of "I bought my house to go to Oakton" is only part of the story. If you were so smart, you would have looked at the map and realized there was a stong chance you would be moved to Herndon or South Lakes sometime in the future.

?? Wrote
-some areas who bought for Aldrin got boundary changed to Forest Edge and now want to preserve escape hatches as evidenced by petition for Madison, advocating for South Lakes to be overstuffed from the other side of the attendance area?

Wrong. The areas that petitioned were on the South side of the Toll Road, much closer to Madison HS than the Island. They have not spoken during this process.

Seething But Resigned, I think you download an MP3 of the speeches from the SB web site.

SL Stepford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Carney's speech yesterday was the best,
> though. If this goes through as proposed, you can
> thank his smarmy, mean-spirited, and offensive
> speech for being the nail in the coffin of your
> fate.

"..nail in the coffin of your fate". That phrase says it all about South Lakes.

Isn't that the way your group speaks about a potential move? I am only parroting what I heard.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kwatason (aka jackass) - Is the rumor that South
> Lakes High School is full of crack addicts and
> junkies true? AKA Students at South Lakes using
> cocaine and heroine.


word:

when u insult people, u should learn to spell.

"Heroine" is more suitable to a Jane Austen novel.

nice try.

EastFloris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you know Floris has 40% Asian and east floris
> has even high rate than that? Do you really know
> the culture of Asian? When it down to their kids,
> nothing can change their mind. They will do
> whatever they can no matter what the cost is. For
> most families, Ivy League Universities are the
> goals for their kids, UVA is the last option. And
> most of the parents are engineers and most of
> their kids are very good at math and science.
>
> Do you really think you can get any kids from
> these families? Let me tell you almost none of
> them will send their kids to an IB school. They
> need college credits earned from AP to get their
> kids to their dream schools.
>
> One thing I can tell you, this redistricting is a
> total waste, you will never get what you want.
> Even it goes thrugh, so what? Nothing changes,
> just move to another place or rent or even better,
> to invest another house somewhere. No big deal.
> But one thing for sure, no kids will go to SL,
> period.
>

I totally agree. SB and SL do not understand Asian culture. To Asians, high school is a spring board for College admissions. Ivy League are the goals, UVA is the last option. Their priorities of high schools in this area are:

1. TJ
2. Langley
3. Oakton, McLean, Westfield, Chantilly
4. Herndon
5. South Lakes

In order to go to TJ, students need to do their part. But the parents can control 2 to 5. What choices do you think they will give their kids, especially after they go through the painful redistrict process?

I can't wait to see how many students SL will get from East Floris if the redistrict Plan is passed. Especially how many students with Asian background.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
> word Wrote:
> > Kwatason (aka jackass) - Is the rumor that
> South
> > Lakes High School is full of crack addicts and
> > junkies true? AKA Students at South Lakes using
> > cocaine and heroine.
>
------------
Padre,
From what I read word simply used parallel construction to belittle Kwatson's insulting post.

FACTS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SB
>
> Please tell me why you are not doing boundary
> studies for the following schools, when you are
> doing one for the western fairfax county area due
> to uncapacity at South Lakes. 1443
>
> The below schools are all under capacity and also
> need to be fixed.
>
>
> STUART 1546
>
> MOUNT VERNON 1758
>
> McLEAN 1768
>
> MARSHALL 1325
>
> LEE 1875
>
> HAYFIELD 1582
>
> FALLS CHURCH 1318
>
> EDISON 1776
>
> Please tell me one more time why Langley is not
> included?

Please take a look at the graph that I have attached, and you will notice among other things, that a common theme of underenrollment is that most of the Schools offer the IB curriculum rather than AP.Here are some Statistics that warrant a closer look.

After examining many questions that have arisen as a result of this RD Study I have concluded, that South Lakes and many other high schools in our County do, in fact have programmatic issues that require attention.

Here are some facts that I gathered from the FCPS Web Site:

There are 8 IB based Curriculum Schools and 17 AP based Curriculum Schools

Of the 10 Schools with the lowest enrollment of students, 6 are IB
Of the 11 Schools with the highest number ESOL students, 7 are IB
Of the 12 Schools with the highest number of FRM students, 7 are IB
Of the 11 Schools with the Highest Mobility rates, 7 are IB
Of the 7 Schools with the Lowest SAT Scores, 5 are IB

I believe that a Prudent School Board must examine the facts regarding “WHY” South Lakes and most of the other IB Schools in this County are showing lower enrollments, and higher than average statistics in the above areas, as compared to our AP Schools. This must be done before making any decisions on moving our children to other schools.

After reviewing many facts, I now believe that the enrollmnts are Curriculum based rather that "demographics".

I believe I saw or read somewhere that in the United States, there are about 23,000 high schools that offer an AP based curriculum, and less that 500 that offer an IB based curriculum. It would make sense to me that when parents are considering a relocation into Fairfax County, they are going to research the schools in the County, and many will select a neighborhood, that offers a curriculum that mirrors those schools that have acheived the highest statistical success.

I heard from many South Lakes parents and supportors who repeated that the purposely "CHOSE" SL for their children, because "THEY" felt that a "non mainstream" curriculum would be a good fit for their students. The key word, is choice. If an IB curriculum was considered a better educational opportunity for students in Fairfax County, I am sure that the parents in the 17 AP based schools would be screaming to switch to IB.

The IB curriculum is unique, as is the entire concept of Reston. When a community "Chooses" to offer a curriculum that is not offered in all of the schools that South Lakes wants to be on par with, it is not reasonable to expect to have the same enrollment. We live in one of the most educated Counties in the US, and the families in the County place a huge epmpasis on education for their children. If people "Choose" to send their children to a "Main Stream School, this does not mean that they are Anti" South lakes. It just means that they have exercised the same decision making rights as those of you who "Chose" to send your children to South Lakes.

You cannot expect to have the benifits of a "Big" School as it relates to Sports and booster clubs etc, when you are offering an educational opportunity that is not being offered at the schools that you want to be like. This is no different than the families that "Choose" not to live in Reston, due to the fact the the HOA Master Association offerers additional Rules, Regs and fees that are in place.

Look at it this way- Reston offers incredible amenities, a unique zoning situation, high HOA fees, a Public High School that is different that all of the other Western Fairfax Schools etc. For the families that "Choose" to buy into the Reston Concept, that is great for them. By the same token, it should not be construed as Bias for those families that "Chose" not to live in such a restrictive palnned community.

Choice is why we have so many families from all over the world who have relocated to Fairfax County.

For all of you South Lakes supporters who claim that the ANTI RD groups are afraid of Diversity, please take a look at the families who chose to speak at the SB meetings last night. I would say that the Floris and Fox Mill families who spoke are about as divers as you can get.

Let us contrast this with what we saw in the way of supporters from South Lake who chose to speak over the last few nights. I will post exact numbers soon, but without question, I saw an overwhelming majority of Caucasian parents and supporters step up to the podium. Where was the representation of the other 50% of the student body?

Please at least admit that your motives for this forced grab students is more than just adding enrollment to South Lakes. The fact that you have "selected" communities of primarily Asian and White students from Floris and Fox Mill, it sends us a very different message.

You must agee, that many of you felt that the McNair area, was not "good enough" for South lakes, even though many of the homes, as well as the children who live in McNair are very much a middle class population. I believe that this shows a prejudice on your parts, as you made a blanket judgement about McNair, without looking at the real reasons why McNair is a Title 1 School. This sounds eerily familiar to the comments that SL supporters have stated about the "perceived" reasons that families choose not to send their children to South Lakes.

I know that on some level the SL supporters must understand this.

It is very unfortunate for South lakes that at the end of the day, many of the children that you seek to grab will not end up in SL. The reasons will be the same as those given by your "neighbors" in Herndon and North Reston, who state that while they support South Lakes, they would prefer to stay where they are, and pursue a different educational opportunity.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post, but after watching Stu Gibson's clear disdain for the Floris and Fox Mill communities (he is our SB Rep as well), I am completely disgusted. To watch him falling all over the SL supporters, and chatting them up as though they are family, while showing no effort to engage his "other" constituents, he showed what a true, two faced lying coward he really is.
Attachments:

> SL Supporter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm so glad we did well tonight, because our
> > schoool really needs some kids that are smart.
> Gen
> > Ed at South Lakes is full of kids that are
> really
> > struggling. I think if we had smart kids from
> Fox
> > Mill Estates and the Folis kids, these
> > underperforming kids at our school would be
> > learning from them. I am sorry that we have to
> > drag you into our problems but it is necessary.

For all those who think that the essential issue in the SL
redistricting is IB vs. AP, please read the above post very
carefully. South Lakes needs more "advantaged"students in Gen
Ed, not IB. As you have heard many SL parents speak, their children
have had great success with IB.(I am sure that they are not relishing the competition from Floris). SL need critical mass of "advantaged" students in Gen Ed for group projects, mentoring of "underperforming students) ,etc., hence, the redistricting.

Most likely, zero from Floris area, I will not send my kids there unless they push out IB and get full AP and fix all their issues, When they are able to keep their reston students there, we will consider going there. That day may never comes.

I moved once for my kid can get in good school. will do it again if I need to! After going through this flawed and unfair boundary process makes us more likely will not go to SLHS in the future.

A Asia parent



Exactly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EastFloris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you know Floris has 40% Asian and east
> floris
> > has even high rate than that? Do you really
> know
> > the culture of Asian? When it down to their
> kids,
> > nothing can change their mind. They will do
> > whatever they can no matter what the cost is.
> For
> > most families, Ivy League Universities are the
> > goals for their kids, UVA is the last option.
> And
> > most of the parents are engineers and most of
> > their kids are very good at math and science.
> >
> > Do you really think you can get any kids from
> > these families? Let me tell you almost none of
> > them will send their kids to an IB school. They
> > need college credits earned from AP to get
> their
> > kids to their dream schools.
> >
> > One thing I can tell you, this redistricting is
> a
> > total waste, you will never get what you want.
> > Even it goes thrugh, so what? Nothing changes,
> > just move to another place or rent or even
> better,
> > to invest another house somewhere. No big deal.
> > But one thing for sure, no kids will go to SL,
> > period.
> >
>
> I totally agree. SB and SL do not understand Asian
> culture. To Asians, high school is a spring board
> for College admissions. Ivy League are the goals,
> UVA is the last option. Their priorities of high
> schools in this area are:
>
> 1. TJ
> 2. Langley
> 3. Oakton, McLean, Westfield, Chantilly
> 4. Herndon
> 5. South Lakes
>
> In order to go to TJ, students need to do their
> part. But the parents can control 2 to 5. What
> choices do you think they will give their kids,
> especially after they go through the painful
> redistrict process?
>
> I can't wait to see how many students SL will get
> from East Floris if the redistrict Plan is passed.
> Especially how many students with Asian
> background.

Floris, we did have some speakers who were not caucasian, but the plain fact is that many of South Lakes' 'diverse' families are not in the same socio-economic strata as the diverse speakers from Floris who live in Monroe Manor, Meadow Hall, Emerald Chase, etc. We caucasians were speaking for them, because they are not in a position to do so themselves, because their resources are limited. I hope you can understand that.

Additionally, when children of those Floris parents are recommended for GT centers not in their Floris community, do they keep them back because of the psychological trauma of being separated from their friends? Do they worry about that or driving distances if they get into TJ? Would they not lobby for AP classes to be added at South Lakes? Would they not work to take the AP tests, that they are entitled to do even if they don't attend an AP school? If, as you say, they are willing to do whatever it takes, I have to believe that they are capable of coming up with these solutions to the perceived problem and I am sure the staff at South Lakes would do everything to accommodate them.

At to the McNair issue, why do you not excoriate Herndon for the same thing. They also have rejected the idea of adding more Title I students to their school. As has been said here many times, adding more disadvantaged to either Herndon or South Lakes would go against on of the main criteria of the study.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> > word Wrote:
> > > Kwatason (aka jackass) - Is the rumor that
> > South
> > > Lakes High School is full of crack addicts
> and
> > > junkies true? AKA Students at South Lakes
> using
> > > cocaine and heroine.
> >
> ------------
> Padre,
> From what I read word simply used parallel
> construction to belittle Kwatson's insulting post.



Consider the source, FR. Most posters who oppose RD do not use stereotypes and code words about South Lakes, even if I don't agree with them, or think they convey misperceptions. Word consistently has used stereotypes and code words and is not civil. If word is your ally, so be it.

Why should we do this? Is it our resposibility? We are willing to do whatever it takes for OUR KIDS, not the problems in SL? Get it!



SLVerity Wrote:
> Additionally, when children of those Floris
> parents are recommended for GT centers not in
> their Floris community, do they keep them back
> because of the psychological trauma of being
> separated from their friends? Do they worry about
> that or driving distances if they get into TJ?
> Would they not lobby for AP classes to be added at
> South Lakes? Would they not work to take the AP
> tests, that they are entitled to do even if they
> don't attend an AP school? If, as you say, they
> are willing to do whatever it takes, I have to
> believe that they are capable of coming up with
> these solutions to the perceived problem and I am
> sure the staff at South Lakes would do everything
> to accommodate them.
>

SLV,
Why don't you do some research before you make any assumptions? Floris GT kids stay with Floris, when the choice's available.

"Additionally, when children of those Floris parents are recommended for GT centers not in their Floris community, do they keep them back because of the psychological trauma of being separated from their friends?"

?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -some areas who bought for Aldrin got boundary
> changed to Forest Edge and now want to preserve
> escape hatches as evidenced by petition for
> Madison, advocating for South Lakes to be
> overstuffed from the other side of the attendance
> area?

I said we got redistricted to Forest Edge from Aldrin but I never said I bought for Aldrin. I could not care less about the differences between the schools, and as I mentioned I perceive all the schools in the county as equal. Frankly am very happy with my kids at Forest Edge. My whole point, which you failed to get as you pick and choose what you want, is that all the schools are the SAME. Don't tell me that the teachers are better at Madison, Langley, Oakton, than they are at the other schools that don't perform as well. IT IS DEMOGRAPHICS of your student, nothing more nothing less. Your kids will make of their life what you and they put into it.

I do drive through Madison Island every day. I'm not trying to preserve an escape hatch to go to what - Herndon/Langley? We are fine with going to South Lakes. But others who are closer to SL than I am should go as well.

I went to Langley - whoopee freakin' do. I guess I must be better/smarter/more successful than all of you on this board unless you went to TJ. That's the only thing that can trump me, right? Pulleeze!

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris, we did have some speakers who were not
> caucasian, but the plain fact is that many of
> South Lakes' 'diverse' families are not in the
> same socio-economic strata as the diverse speakers
> from Floris who live in Monroe Manor, Meadow Hall,
> Emerald Chase, etc. We caucasians were speaking
> for them, because they are not in a position to do
> so themselves, because their resources are
> limited. I hope you can understand that.

So in other words, what you are trying to say, is that socio-economic Strata prevents parents from speaking out on such an important issue at hand. I saw the South lakes supporters bus in families for the TH meetings, are you saying that the disadantaged do not drive? Couldn't get out of work? Don't speak english? Please clarify what you are really saying.
>
> Additionally, when children of those Floris
> parents are recommended for GT centers not in
> their Floris community, do they keep them back
> because of the psychological trauma of being
> separated from their friends? Do they worry about
> that or driving distances if they get into TJ?
> Would they not lobby for AP classes to be added at
> South Lakes?


Again, you bring up a great Point. These families "CHOOSE" to send their children to the GT Centers outsdie of the Floris area. None of the students are being Forced to go.

Would they not work to take the AP
> tests, that they are entitled to do even if they
> don't attend an AP school? If, as you say, they
> are willing to do whatever it takes, I have to
> believe that they are capable of coming up with
> these solutions to the perceived problem and I am
> sure the staff at South Lakes would do everything
> to accommodate them.

There is no reason to believe the South Lakes parents or the SB with deviate from the Status Quo.
>
> At to the McNair issue, why do you not excoriate
> Herndon for the same thing. They also have
> rejected the idea of adding more Title I students
> to their school. As has been said here many
> times, adding more disadvantaged to either Herndon
> or South Lakes would go against on of the main
> criteria of the study.

I was not aware that the "Main Criteria" of this Study was Socio-economics.

We have heard compelling feedback from Herndon HS parents and supporters, who feel very strongly about the benefits of having their children attend the same Elementary, Middle and High Schools. We in the Floris Community greatly support this concept; believe that this would be a great benefit for our children as well.

The Floris Community area is now being told that they will soon be split into 3 different ES when Coppermine ES opens in 2009. Our children then will move on to Rachel Carson MS, where upon they will split up into 4 or 5 different high schools! Our Children have been used by the SB like pawns on a chess board, and have moved in and out of schools to correct imbalances in enrollments, that were created by you, not us! This is either due to gross incompetence or a direct and personal bias against our community. We must ask that this be stopped now.

We now ask our School Board Members these Questions- Why have you denied the Floris Community the same Continuity and stability that has been given to our sister schools in the area?, and Why have you used our students as fodder for the benefit of others, with no regard for the impact that this has on the stability of our community and families!

I notice that you typically only selectively reply to questions or statements or opinions that differ from your own. Can you provide feedback on the many other questions that I posed, regarding why the IB based curriculum are being placed into our schools which seem to have the Highest Number of FRM etc.?

I have heard many SL parents and supporters speak of many compelling reasons on why they “CHOSE” to enroll their Children in South Lakes HS. The SL supporters are very passionate about their school and community, just as those in the Floris Community are passionate about Westfield HS.

We all agree that SL offers a very unique cultural and Academic Curriculum environment, and it seems clear that the students and parents at SL have embraced this concept. I am sure that the South lakes families examined the curriculum, school size, and all other information that was deemed to be important when determining what School they would “CHOOSE” as the best fit for their children.

The key word that we have heard over and over is “CHOICE”.

Why is the same opportunity to “CHOOSE” being denied for the parents and students in the Floris and Fox Mill Communities?

I believe the capacity issues in FCPS are due to the fact that there are 8 out of 25 schools that are IB schools which equals 33%.

The rest of the US has 500 out of 23,000 schools that are IB schools which equals 2%.

The question is why?

Floris Parent Wrote:
> ... There are 8 IB based Curriculum Schools and 17 AP
> based Curriculum Schools
>
> Of the 10 Schools with the lowest enrollment of students, 6 are IB
> Of the 11 Schools with the highest number ESOL students, 7 are IB
> Of the 12 Schools with the highest number of FRM students, 7 are IB
> Of the 11 Schools with the Highest Mobility rates, 7 are IB
> Of the 7 Schools with the Lowest SAT Scores, 5 are IB
>
> I believe that a Prudent School Board must examine
> the facts regarding “WHY” South Lakes and most of
> the other IB Schools in this County are showing
> lower enrollments, and higher than average
> statistics in the above areas, as compared to our
> AP Schools. This must be done before making any
> decisions on moving our children to other
> schools.
>
> After reviewing many facts, I now believe that the
> enrollmnts are Curriculum based rather that
> "demographics". ...
------------

We appear to be trying to avoid mention of race on this thread, but when you cite these other subgroups that are measured under "No Child Left Behind" it is pertinent. As of 30 Sep 2007, Black and Hispanic students comprise 38.2% of the population at IB schools but only 18.1% of the population at AP schools. Interestingly, the percentage of Asian students is almost identical, 17.2% of the student body in IB schools and 17.0% in AP schools.

In any case, you appear to be putting the cart before the horse. Putting IB in those seven high schools with high ESOL/high FRM/high mobility rates did not cause their demographics.

You might instead ask why FCPS installed the IB Programme in schools with high ESOL/high FRM/high mobility rates. In the decade since Robinson got IB, none of the schools with lower percentages of ESOL/FRM/mobility students have accepted IB. Specifically, the same year South Lakes got IB, Woodson rather dramatically rejected the programme when FCPS tried to install IB without widespread parent support.

Remember all the discussions of college admissions, placement, and credit and how to pay for college.

Perhaps you could rephrase your question as: "Why did FPCS install IB and remove AP from schools with high percentages of disadvantaged students?"

South Lakes did not bus in any families. We had no buses. Herndon paid for the use of school buses. Perhaps that is what you saw.

You have no reason to believe that families here are for the status quo. We have lobbied the SB very hard to add AP classes. Younger parents in our pyramid have no opinion about AP vs. IB. I did, however, read and hear some very incorrect information about IB used by Fairfax CAPS. Unfortunately for CAPS, the SB knows that what they said is incorrect.

You are correct, though, about the SB. The SB chose to place IB in disadvantaged schools, which left an incorrect impression that it was a bad program not for mainstream middle class families. That was a huge mistake. Another huge mistake: Phasing out AP classes at IB schools, which was done after the fact at SL. It was a classic bait and switch. George Mason HS in Falls Church is a great IB school supplemented with AP classes. It has been in place there for 18 years and is highly regarded by the parents. I would happily support supplementing with AP, not because IB is an inferior program, but because that is the way others, like you, who don't know it, view it. I have no say now, because my children are graduated. I can tell you that younger families in the pyramid will go either way.

I agree with this question, and it is a very important one.

Forum Reader Said: Perhaps you could rephrase your question as: "Why did FPCS install IB and remove AP from schools with high percentages of disadvantaged students?"

Are you aware of any redistricting anywhere in Virgina or the US that has resulted in such a large movement of students from a main stream school to and IB school? If there is such an RD, what have the results been, in changes to the IB schools after such an RD?

Forum Reader Wrote:...

>... Perhaps you could rephrase your question as: "Why
> did FPCS install IB and remove AP from schools
> with high percentages of disadvantaged students?"

I believe Mrs. Strauss answered the question on why certain schools got IB recently. To paraphrase: Once a decision was made to go with IB there was limited implementation time. That was best used at schools not having staff trained in and largely implementing AP. The explanation tracks somewhat with the staff training -school invigoration reasons given in J Matthews book Supertest.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
> Consider the source, FR. Most posters who oppose
> RD do not use stereotypes and code words about
> South Lakes, even if I don't agree with them, or
> think they convey misperceptions. Word
> consistently has used stereotypes and code words
> and is not civil. If word is your ally, so be it.

I have no idea who word is (or who you are); I am only trying to point out that Kwatson started this particular squabble:

> Posted by: Kwatson (IP Logged)
> Date: February 01, 2008 08:46AM
> Is the rumor that Oakton High School has a prescription drug problem true? AKA
> Students at Oakton using illegal prescription drugs(Xanax, Zoloft, Paxil)?


To which word responded using parallelism as a rhetorical device:

> Posted by: word (IP Logged)
> Date: February 01, 2008 09:00AM
> Kwatason (aka jackass) - Is the rumor that South Lakes High School is full of
> crack addicts and junkies true? AKA Students at South Lakes using cocaine and heroine.

If those who want to continue playing the insult game will take it outside, the rest of us can get back to numbers and programs and such.