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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SHOCKED ()
Date: January 27, 2008 12:41PM

Almost everone who has made comments on this blog, only cares about themselves and their self interest.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: A Troll ()
Date: January 27, 2008 01:14PM

SHOCKED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Almost everone who has made comments on this blog,
> only cares about themselves and their self
> interest.

Make that 'everyone', not 'almost everyone'

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: January 27, 2008 01:26PM

Demographics for Reston:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reston%2C_Virginia

As of the censusGR2 of 2000, there were 56,407 people, 23,320 households, and 14,481 families residing in the community. The population density was 3,288.6 people per square mile (1,269.9/km²). There were 24,210 housing units at an average density of 1,411.5/sq mi (545.0/km²). The racial makeup of the community was 73.62% White, 9.12% African American, 0.25% Native American, 9.62% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 4.12% from other races, and 3.23% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 10.10% of the population.[42]

Reston was Virginia's best educated city, proportionately, with 66.7% of adult residents (25 and older) holding an associate degree or higher, and 62.8% of adults possessing a baccalaureate degree or higher.[43]

There were 23,320 households out of which 29.6% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 50.2% were married couples living together, 8.9% had a female householder with no husband present, and 37.9% were non-families. 29.3% of all households were made up of individuals and 5.2% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.40 and the average family size was 2.99.

The population is spread out with 22.5% under the age of 18, 6.9% from 18 to 24, 36.3% from 25 to 44, 27.0% from 45 to 64, and 7.3% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 36 years. For every 100 females there were 95.6 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 93.1 males.

The median income for a household in the community was $80,018, and the median income for a family was $94,061. Males had a median income of $70,192 versus $45,885 for females. The per capita income for the community was $42,747. About 3.2% of families and 4.5% of the population were below the poverty line, including 6.1% of those under age 18 and 7.0% of those age 65 or over. A portion of the housing is set aside for Section 8 low-income housing.[44] Subsidized senior citizen housing is also available[citation needed].

The home ownership rate (owner-occupied housing units to total units) was 66.7%.


[edit] Population history of Reston
1970: 5,722
1980: 36,407
1990: 48,556
2000: 56,407
Figures are based on U.S. Census Bureau data.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reston,_Virginia#Education

When you compare the Demographics of Reston as a whole with the Demographics of South Lakes HS, you will see some interesting numbers:

South Lakes HS Demographics http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:3178481489111211::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320

Asian Black Hispanic White Other
11.75% 20.59% 16.14% 45.72% 5.8%

Reston Demographics based on the 2000 Census

Asian Black Hispanic White Other
9.62% 9.12% 10% 73.62% 4.12%

You will notice that there is a large difference in the White and the Black percentages. I am not sure how you can account for this, but generally speaking, the demographics of an area will be mirrored in the Community High School.

Compare the same Stats for Oakton and Oakton High School.

Demographics of Oakton VA


As of the censusGR2 of 2000, there were 29,348 people, 11,118 households, and 7,649 families residing in the CDP. The population density was 3,024.1 people per square mile (1,168.2/km²). There were 11,392 housing units at an average density of 1,173.9/sq mi (453.5/km²). The racial makeup of the CDP was 74.46% White, 4.79% African American, 0.20% Native American, 13.83% Asian, 0.08% Pacific Islander, 3.08% from other races, and 3.56% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 9.65% of the population.

There were 11,118 households out of which 32.7% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 57.8% were married couples living together, 7.9% had a female householder with no husband present, and 31.2% were non-families. 21.7% of all households were made up of individuals and 3.8% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.63 and the average family size was 3.08.

In the CDP the population was spread out with 23.3% under the age of 18, 7.7% from 18 to 24, 34.9% from 25 to 44, 26.6% from 45 to 64, and 7.5% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 36 years. For every 100 females there were 97.5 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 95.0 males.

The median income for a household in the CDP was $87,898, and the median income for a family was $104,385. Males had a median income of $62,434 versus $48,096 for females. The per capita income for the CDP was $43,297. About 3.6% of families and 4.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 4.7% of those under age 18 and 6.7% of those age 65 or over.

Demographics of Oakton based on 2000 Census: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakton%2C_Virginia

White Black Hispanic Asian Other
74.46% 4.79% 9.65% 13.83% 3.08%



Oakton High School Demographics from FCPS 2006-2007 Year

http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:3846224920000114::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:050

White Black Hispanic Asian Other
67.13% 5.07% 6.7% 17.49% 3.61%

Notice how the general demographics of the Population of Oakton mirror the General HS enrollment numbers. I am pretty sure that if you do the same comparisons of Langley, Madison, Westfield and Chantilly, the correlation between the populations demographics and the HS demographics will be very similar.


I am not sure what all of this means for South Lakes, but it is interesting.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: RealProblems? ()
Date: January 27, 2008 02:44PM

Just curious, can someone tell me what is the real concern that preventing you sending your kids to SL? I know IB vs AP might be a big concern, what else?

I saw some posts saying that SL is a failed school and should be closed. Based on what?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NumbersCruncher ()
Date: January 27, 2008 04:05PM

RealProblems? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious, can someone tell me what is the real
> concern that preventing you sending your kids to
> SL? I know IB vs AP might be a big concern, what
> else?
>
> I saw some posts saying that SL is a failed school
> and should be closed. Based on what?

South Lakes is not a failed school. It is simply not yet a successful school.

Here's one objective measure:

Schools Within 20 Miles of Fairfax, VA
Source: School Matters

School Name: TJ
Reading Proficiency: 100%
Math Proficiency: 100%
Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #1

School Name: Langley
Reading Proficiency: 98.2%
Math Proficiency: 94.5%
Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #2

School Name: Oakton
Reading Proficiency: 90.2%%
Math Proficiency: 88.2%
Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #10

School Name: South Lakes
Reading Proficiency: 78.6%
Math Proficiency: 66.9%
Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #34

Families zoned for schools like Oakton--a top 100 in the nation school by some measures--simply don't want to trade a superior school for one that has has an 11% differential in reading and a 21% differential in math. Would you?

It's relatively easy to see why people don't want to move from one school to the other against their will. Here's my question: Why aren't the people of South Lakes hopping mad about being ignored by the school board and board of supervisors all these years and only getting this one bone thrown to them (a few kids from other neighborhoods) instead of a real plan to address the needs of the kids and families of South Lakes today?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SHOCKED ()
Date: January 27, 2008 05:11PM

THE NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. Who has failed these students and parents at SL?

SL SCHOOL EMPLOYEES AND SL OFFICIALS?

JACK DALE?

STU GIBSON?

THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BOARD?

ALL OF THE ABOVE HAVE FAILED TO DO THERE JOB AT SL FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS.

ALL OF THE ABOVE MUST FIX THESE FAILING GRADES NOW OR THEY SHOULD NOT BE PAID.

SOUNDS LIKE INCOMPETENCE AND MALFEASANCE OF WRONGFUL CONDUCT BY A SCHOOL OFFICIAL.

SOMEONES HEAD NEEDS TO ROLL NOW.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: yes ()
Date: January 27, 2008 05:36PM

Those numbers would mean more if the demographics of the schools were similar. The lower income students that attend South Lakes are the reason why its numbers are lower. Students who would be redistricted are not of that status and therefore would not be effected by the lower numbers. Can someone please address this point?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 27, 2008 06:20PM

Floris Parent, your numbers simply indicate what has been said here all along. Reston has a substantial amount of housing that is high density and not populated by families. By contrast, Oakton is primarily made up of single family homes.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 27, 2008 07:31PM

NumbersCruncher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RealProblems? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just curious, can someone tell me what is the
> real
> > concern that preventing you sending your kids
> to
> > SL? I know IB vs AP might be a big concern,
> what
> > else?
> >
> > I saw some posts saying that SL is a failed
> school
> > and should be closed. Based on what?
>
> South Lakes is not a failed school. It is simply
> not yet a successful school.
>
> Here's one objective measure:
>
> Schools Within 20 Miles of Fairfax, VA
> Source: School Matters
>
> School Name: TJ
> Reading Proficiency: 100%
> Math Proficiency: 100%
> Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #1
>
> School Name: Langley
> Reading Proficiency: 98.2%
> Math Proficiency: 94.5%
> Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #2
>
> School Name: Oakton
> Reading Proficiency: 90.2%%
> Math Proficiency: 88.2%
> Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #10
>
> School Name: South Lakes
> Reading Proficiency: 78.6%
> Math Proficiency: 66.9%
> Rank Among Area Schools Using this Criteria: #34
>
>
I don't think School Matters has valid numbers--it doesn't say anywhere on their site where specifically they get their data, therefore no accountability. Here are SOL numbers for 07--not sure how these relate to "proficiency" as noted by School Matters. As you can see, SL does a pretty good job, esp. given the demographics.

SOL 06-07 SL/Hn/Wd/Ok/Ch
Reading 95/94/97/98/96
Writing 94/95/96/99/96
Geometry 83/92/92/93/94
Algebra2 83/93/90/92/92
Va History 93/96/98/96/97
World Hist 90/96/96/98/95
World 2 86/96/95/97/96
Biology 85/91/92/97/92
Chemistry 73/87/87/91/92
Earth Sci 91/97/93/97/93

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Reston Parent ()
Date: January 27, 2008 07:40PM

You are right. If you break down the scores by social economic status, the advantaged students perform just as well as those in Oakton or Westfield. Last year South Lake sent more number of students to UVA and W&M than Langley.

Nobody has said here that SL teachers are not as good as other school's. No one has questioned the capability of the current principal of SL. It really comes down to the parents and students.

yes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those numbers would mean more if the demographics
> of the schools were similar. The lower income
> students that attend South Lakes are the reason
> why its numbers are lower. Students who would be
> redistricted are not of that status and therefore
> would not be effected by the lower numbers. Can
> someone please address this point?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: January 27, 2008 08:13PM

I was just looking at some things from FCPS..why is Navy ES already in the Oakton pyramid? Isn't Navy still in the Chantilly pyramid and would be rerouted to Oakton if this RD goes through?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Winston ()
Date: January 27, 2008 09:12PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was just looking at some things from FCPS..why
> is Navy ES already in the Oakton pyramid? Isn't
> Navy still in the Chantilly pyramid and would be
> rerouted to Oakton if this RD goes through?

Prior to proposed RD adjustments, Navy was split between Oakton and Chantilly, Approx. 50/50. With the proposed RD adjustments, about 2/3 of Navy kids will go to Oakton thus decreasing Chantilly. I'm surprised you haven't studied these numbers as they are available on FCPS.edu. See 5th scenario,

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: January 27, 2008 09:28PM

Winston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was just looking at some things from
> FCPS..why
> > is Navy ES already in the Oakton pyramid? Isn't
> > Navy still in the Chantilly pyramid and would
> be
> > rerouted to Oakton if this RD goes through?
>
> Prior to proposed RD adjustments, Navy was split
> between Oakton and Chantilly, Approx. 50/50. With
> the proposed RD adjustments, about 2/3 of Navy
> kids will go to Oakton thus decreasing Chantilly.
> I'm surprised you haven't studied these numbers as
> they are available on FCPS.edu. See 5th scenario,


I apologize for the confusion then. I am not from the Navy area and I did study #5 before and this time I had to zoom it to 50 percent higher to look at Navy closely and saw the split line of the Navy area.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Charley Guillotine ()
Date: January 27, 2008 09:31PM

Yours.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Curious ()
Date: January 27, 2008 09:40PM

My observation of "tone" with my friends and neighbors who were strongly united to fight against RD has changed quite a bit over the past month. Through my discussions at CYA, church, social gatherings etc, those who are impacted are becoming more accepting of their fate and trying to find positives as best they can.

Even though petitions are still circulating and such, the majority want to move on and put the stress of this behind them. The "fighters" do still exist though. I do truly hope this ends well for all.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Stephanie ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:07PM

Future SL parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FYI -
>
> There are many current and future SL parents who
> are not exactly thrilled with the IB program for
> various reasons. While they may appreciate the
> rigor of the program, they are interested in
> adding AP classes and possibly becoming an AP
> school, IF this is what the SL community wants.
> It's not like PTSA voted and CHOSE IB. It was
> thrust upon them.
>
> Believe this - a large contingent of parents will
> advocate for parental input into curriculum.
>
> So far, board members have been most interested in
> parents opinions regarding IB vs AP curriculum, at
> least the board members I've met.

What exactly is it that displeases you with the IB program?

You will find majority of colleges and univirsities in the US know of the IB program and what it requires. Most colleges accept that it is just as challenging as the AP program if not more challenging. And if colleges don't agree on that fact; they do understand it's not the decision of the child which program their school follows. No college will ever hold it against a child that their school offered IB instead of AP. If you know of a college that will tell you different then I'd like to see your proof, because this as everyone should know, is called predjudice. By the way, when Fairfax County mails out transcripts to colleges they send out a grading scale and the class course selection offered at the school they attended. Colleges do take notice of students who apply themselves and excel in the more challenging courses their school offers but never to the courses of other schools.

If you are truly worried that colleges will look at your child differently then others because of IB and AP then I suggest you worry more so about the out of whack grading scale Fairfax County has, that many colleges fail to notice when reviewing students transcripts. A B+ in Fairfax County is often an A in other counties, maybe this should worry you more. But oh, I forgot, it's okay to challenge them with a ridiculous grading scale, just not in South Lakes or an IB school. Sometimes you parents make absolutly no sense...

Lets get this straight for once. I've heard you don't like the IB program because it's not challening enough, and now because it's too challening. Which is it? Or maybe you don't know anything about the IB program, which I'm guessing is the case because I have yet to find your plausible reasoning in how the program is flawed. If I'm off on this philosophy however, feel free to correct or yell at me, then again... I've never seen this as a problem for those on the forum.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:10PM

BRADSHER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOW WE Fucked up.
>
>
>
> Please tell me how after so many meetings
> regarding the set up of the boundary lines for
> South County HS, we now have significant
> enrollment and capacity imbalances at Lake
> Braddock, Lee, Hayfield and SCHS.
>
> Lake Braddock UNDER CAPACITY
> Lee UNDER CAPACITY
> Hayfield UNDER CAPACITY
>
> South County OVER CAPACITY
>
> The big question is why did we allow this to
> happen? POLITICAL PRESSURE, MISMANAGEMENT.
>
> The above are serious problems that need to be
> fixed. When will we address these problems and
> when will we fix the capacity/imbalances
> problems so that all students are treated in a
> fair way.

You've answered your own question, political pressure. That's what happens with an elected school board. :(

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:15PM

Stephanie...

In the AP program, is it easy to take (say) five one year classes in english, math, science and history over (say) three years that will then allow a student to place out of five equivalent large survey courses at most US colleges.

My understanding is acceptance of IB SL courses for college credit is rare, with most colleges require two year HL courses for similar collgge credit. Thus you would need to take twice as many years of study for the same effect.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:19PM

GIBSON Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM IN FCPS.
>
> What are you going to do about the racial and
> economic imbalances in the following schools?
>
> The bottom 9 schools (South Lakes, West Pot,
> Hayfield, Edison, Lee, Falls Church, Mt Vernon,
> Annandale and Stuart) have the following
> averages:
>
> 36% White, 19% Black and 24% Latino.
>
> The racial breakdown among all FCPS students is as
> follows:
>
> White 50.2%
> Asian 17.40%
> Black 10.80%
> Latino 16.00%
> Other 4.90%
>
> You need to do more than just redistrict some
> schools, because you are just scratching the
> surface of the racial imbalances in FCPS. Your
> goal should be that you schools reflect the
> county's demographics.
>
> The top 8 schools (Madison, Langley, Oakton,
> Robinson, McLean,Woodson, Chantilly and Westfield
> have the following averages:
>
> White 66%
> Black 4.76%
> Latino 7%
>
> So these schools have half the FCPS proportion of
> Blacks students and less than half the proportion
> of Latino students.
>
> Do we have segregated schools in FCPS? Are schools
> made up of the haves and the have not?
>
> The key question is who allowed this to happen and
> what are you going to do about bringing racial
> balance to the entire FCPS system?

Gee, I don't know. How are we going to force whites out of McLean and Vienna and into Reston, Annandale, and Mt. Vernon? Do you think they will agree to swap houses with Blacks and Hispanics in those areas? Or did you have some other ideas?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:25PM

STORCK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since no one wants to go to SL, why not close it
> down and convert it to another FCPS office
> building. Then we could divide the SL students up
> and bus them to all the schools within a fifteen
> mile area who indicate that they are not over
> capacity.
>
> Sounds faif

The reality is, that would work. Over the next four years, surrounding schools could absorb all of South Lakes students with no school being over crowded. Rather than building the second FCPS Taj Mahal, as planned, let SL be that office building for the western part of the county.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:31PM

>>>As for the aging claim, all the original Reston residents from the 1970's have either moved on or their kids graduated in the 1990s. The decline is due to a reduced influx of families with children. South Lakes has one of the larger districts when measured by number of households, but one of the smallest in terms of households with children. For whatever reason: price, housing stock, age, etc., families with kids have not been choosin to live in Reston at the rate they live in other districts.<<<

Perhaps that's because the schools aren't as good as nearby areas so people with children choose to buy elsewhere. Seems obvious.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Imagine ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:39PM

Let's say you live in the Boston area and you are allowed to send your child to MIT as one of the perks of living there. If you've been to MIT, you know it's not pretty. The buildings are worn down. The office and classroom space is cramped. The area isn't that great. You'll probably get a TA instead of a professor. But it's still MIT, right? Who wouldn't want that? The students are driven. Getting a degree from MIT is a boost for grad school and job apps.

Now just imagine that Massachusetts changed the boundaries. Starting next year your kids get to go to Lesley College. Woopie! Sure, Lesley's not bad. You get more attention. You may have a more undergrad class choices. You'll have more time with real professors. The space is cozy and appealing. It's all good, right? Who wouldn't want this!

But it's not MIT!

Like many of us have said many, many, many, many times: we don't hate South Lakes. We just don't want to move from a great school to a not so great school. Just accept what we're saying and stop trying to read all this stuff into people's motivations. This is simple, okay.

Those proficiency numbers that NumberCruncher spouted were the real deal. You can't judge a school by just "certain" students. Or by its principal. Or a new building. Numbers mean things. You must look at the whole. The numbers at South Lakes may go up with time. But why would people tracked to places like Chantilly or Langley or Oakton or any other great school be excited about going to South Lakes? Come on already!

Besides, is the only way to "improve" that place to drag in people kicking and screaming so you can raise the averages while ignoring the underprivileged kids who really need help and attention? Is that the best idea everybody can come up with? You must see that this is just completely upside down logic around here! Man, if the parents of the ESOL and free lunch kids ever have time and energy to figure out what's going on around here, they are going to be pissed! Look out!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:40PM

T Boone Pickens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The current demographics of SLHS is determined by
> the nature of the housing stock that exists within
> its boundaries: Wealthy enclaves of mud
> puddle-front properties surrounded by relatively
> shabby, higher density developments that are not
> attractive to families with children. Missing is
> the middle: dense neighborhoods of medium-sized
> single-family homes on small to medium sized lots.
>
>
> This state of affairs is a predictable outcome of
> deliberate choices that were made in the
> development of Reston, where it was thought that
> it was more important to provide the illusion of
> green space and unusual architecture than larger
> houses and supermarkets that people can find.
>
> Rather than correct these issues in-house, Reston
> is attempting to fill its high school by mounting
> a hostile takeover of neighborhoods that already
> have the housing assets it thinks it needs to
> provide the kind of students it wants. This
> strategy is often used in the business world.
> Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Success
> or failure is usually determined by whether or not
> the two cultures can be merged into something that
> is acceptable to both.

Wow. Interesting.

Where do you see a compromise in this scenario? How will people outside of Reston, who didn't buy into the Reston concept, be happy going to school there? Can Reston really preform a hostile takeover of homes outside of Reston and have it work?

Is there any chance that Reston will change and allow teardowns and large house replacements? That has made a big difference in many parts of McLean, Oakton, and Vienna, with some beautiful results. Won't Reston eventually HAVE to allow teardowns?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:47PM

Stephanie,
Does it matter why parents don't want the IB program? If they don't want it, they don't want it. They're aren't stupid, and they aren't irrational or illogical, they just have a preference for AP.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 27, 2008 10:54PM

>>>White Black Hispanic Asian Other
67.13% 5.07% 6.7% 17.49% 3.61%

Notice how the general demographics of the Population of Oakton mirror the General HS enrollment numbers. I am pretty sure that if you do the same comparisons of Langley, Madison, Westfield and Chantilly, the correlation between the populations demographics and the HS demographics will be very similar.


I am not sure what all of this means for South Lakes, but it is interesting.>>>

Wouldn't we expect a high school to reflect who lives in the area that feeds to it? Without forced busing for racial balancing, how could it be anything else?

The question is, what happens to the white kids in Reston? Why aren't they at South Lakes?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2008 12:28AM by Neen.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: STORCK ()
Date: January 27, 2008 11:43PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> STORCK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since no one wants to go to SL, why not close
> it
> > down and convert it to another FCPS office
> > building. Then we could divide the SL students
> up
> > and bus them to all the schools within a
> fifteen
> > mile area who indicate that they are not over
> > capacity.
> >
> > Sounds faif
>
> The reality is, that would work. Over the next
> four years, surrounding schools could absorb all
> of South Lakes students with no school being over
> crowded. Rather than building the second FCPS Taj
> Mahal, as planned, let SL be that office building
> for the western part of the county.

I think you people are still fighting the civil war and are a bunch of white racist.

I believe you would rather have all schools divided into all blacks, all latino, all asian and all white. You are a large group of bigots that have no place here.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 28, 2008 12:30AM

Huh? How does advocating for sending SL kids to Madison, Oakton, Langley, Westfield and Chantilly mean we want schools separated by race?

You seem to have a problem with logic. Or perhaps you just enjoy name calling. (shrugs)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: hmmm ()
Date: January 28, 2008 01:09AM

The Storck Center, located in Florida, serves children and adults with severe developmental disabilities.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ChainLinkFence ()
Date: January 28, 2008 07:07AM

Imagine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Besides, is the only way to "improve" that place
> to drag in people kicking and screaming so you can
> raise the averages while ignoring the
> underprivileged kids who really need help and
> attention? Is that the best idea everybody can
> come up with? You must see that this is just
> completely upside down logic around here! Man, if
> the parents of the ESOL and free lunch kids ever
> have time and energy to figure out what's going on
> around here, they are going to be pissed! Look
> out!


Interesting point! Who is speaking out for the people who most need help out South Lakes now? It seems like everyone is talking about the needs of non-ESOL/FRL kids at South Lakes and surrounding communities. Is anybody at South Lakes--or on the board or staff--fighting to get resources to help ESOL/FRL kids succeed? Where are those families on redistricting? Is anybody asking them what they need?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: BRADSHER ()
Date: January 28, 2008 07:20AM

NO problem with logic, just a problem with racist who discriminate against minority groups.I wonder, if you have the nerve to make the same statements or stand at work or in your business. I think not.

If you conviction is so strong at work, tell your boss that you demand all whites on one floor with white only bath rooms and all minority groups on a different floor. Then you can tell you boss that you also demand woman on one floor and men on other. What about the glass ceiling for all the woman who are making racist comments on this blog, you do not like it at your work place and who have demanded change.

If your conviction is so strong at your business, put up signs that state minorities not welcome and your voice mail should state the same.

I think the minority groups need to stand up for their rights and not be pushed to the back of the bus like your group is doing.

I think the minority groups need to change the political picture of the school board from a almost all white racist club and elect minority canidates to SB positions in order to balance things out for fair play.

If the truth hurts, I am sorry, but this blog speaks volumes of discrimination.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: VaDriver ()
Date: January 28, 2008 08:53AM

Could South Lakes people give it a rest already with the “diversity” guilt trip angle? It is a dishonest approach.

Three African American families live on my street (one an empty nester) . One across the street, one behind me and one three doors down. So, your argument concerning us being afraid of diversity is plain STUpid and insulting. Two of these families attended the 2nd meeting at Westfield. They are opposed to redistricting. Are you going to call them “racist”?

-------------------Think about that.! Just, think about that!!-----------

So…South Lakes…..save your diversity speeches for yourselves. You have been the ones demanding advantaged kids. Reston has the subsidized housing and these projects are filled with poor minorities….that is a simply reality. And, for the past 15 years, every freakin group my children have been a part of has donated to Reston Interfaith, time, money, toys for your homeless shelter. BTW, the Reston homeless shelter refused a SUV load of just like new expensive fisher price toys…..they only accept brand new! OT.

Anyway, this was all part of the original Reston vision. You bought your home there…we didn’t. Your school is simply a reflection of your community. It is not out of balance with your population pool.

I have no idea why you allowed your North Reston advantaged kids to be districted to Langley HS. And, why weren’t you all screaming when Langley was approved for its 7.1 million dollar addition to accommodate 300 over enrolled students? A waste of taxpayers money.

And…save the “you’re only thinking about yourselves” speech. Who the hell here isn’t?

Further, based on Forum Readers statistics, IB works for 5-6% of the entire population. Soooooo, 94-95% don’t want IB. That’s it, stuff it.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: word ()
Date: January 28, 2008 08:56AM

I do believe there are racist elements in the Reston neighborhoods. Some schools like Sunrise Valley ES seem to be "all white" while others Dogwood ES are predominantly black... leading one to the conclusion that there is some segregation amongst the Reston neighborhoods.

Also it seems that only the white people seem to age and retire in place as evidenced by the huge decline in white students at South Lakes HS over the past 10 years? Or, is it that whites in Reston are opting out of their own high school for private school or pupil placement when it comes time to integrating the elementary school children at the middle and high school levels.

And, now it is the less well-to-do whites that didn't opt-out of South Lakes HS for private school that are behind the push to de-diversify South Lakes HS, by importing Fox Mill and Floris while thumbing their nose at McNair. If you want to know who the real racists are, look no further than the South Lakes parents, PTSA, pupil placement families, and those in private school.

The venier is very thin in Utopia.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Dirty Truth ()
Date: January 28, 2008 09:30AM

Word, it's spelled v-e-n-e-e-r.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Truth ()
Date: January 28, 2008 09:43AM

Thank you "VaDriver", "word" and "ChainLinkFence" for calling it like it is!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TRUTH BE TOLD ()
Date: January 28, 2008 10:36AM

TO VaDRIVER

DO YOU HAVE A CONFEDERATE FLAG ON YOUR FRONT YARD??????????????????????

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Stop representing others ()
Date: January 28, 2008 10:38AM

Please stop spreading message as "I heard from others". Please stop speaking for other communities with no sound basis, other than a few "I heard". Well, I heard from ALL people I know, they don't like this RD.


Curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My observation of "tone" with my friends and
> neighbors who were strongly united to fight
> against RD has changed quite a bit over the past
> month. Through my discussions at CYA, church,
> social gatherings etc, those who are impacted are
> becoming more accepting of their fate and trying
> to find positives as best they can.
>
> Even though petitions are still circulating and
> such, the majority want to move on and put the
> stress of this behind them. The "fighters" do
> still exist though. I do truly hope this ends well
> for all.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: VaDriver ()
Date: January 28, 2008 10:51AM

TO VaDRIVER

DO YOU HAVE A CONFEDERATE FLAG ON YOUR FRONT YARD??????????????????????”
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of question marks…one would have sufficed.

What a funny thought! I’m Union, didn’t we win?

On St Patty’s Day, I’ve been know to fly a shamrock. Not that I have a problem, if you want to fly your flag of choice Truthbetold..

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WordsMeanThings ()
Date: January 28, 2008 11:20AM

rac·ism
Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm]
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1865–70; < F racisme. See race2, -ism]

—Related forms
racist, noun, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: BirdLover ()
Date: January 28, 2008 11:36AM

Dirty Truth,

I thought Fairfax County utilized the ‘whole language' approach to spelling. You know, where little Johnny could spell 'cat' as 'can' and still get a smiley face sticker saying, good job, on his paper. Or, he could spell 'Dirty Truth' as 'Dirty Lies' and get two smiley faces.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Dirty Truth ()
Date: January 28, 2008 12:06PM

Whole language answer to Birdlover = Birdshit

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fmparent ()
Date: January 28, 2008 12:15PM

Did anybody notice during Candy Tisdadt's scream fest that she said her husband has been "going to meetings every night" for you snot nosed brats... What meetings? Could those be redistricting meetings? If she thinks the meetings are for snot nosed brats who are the brats? The SL kids or all the rest that are supposed to be redistricted? Because if she thinks likely redistricted kids are brats and she talks to her husband and gets it from him and they BOTH agree then he isn't looking at this with an open mind, as one should in his position. He should be FIRED just for that!

And for the poster who said that redistricted parents are trying to see it in the best light and move on, well, we really have to start making plans if they do this because there is no very little time to get our kids into other schools. We can keep fighting this but it is horribly obvious that the SB could not care less - seems so criminal.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Anonymous ()
Date: January 28, 2008 12:38PM

maybe he is just telling her they are school meetings

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: January 28, 2008 12:39PM

fmparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did anybody notice during Candy Tisdadt's scream
> fest that she said her husband has been "going to
> meetings every night" for you snot nosed brats...
> What meetings? Could those be redistricting
> meetings? If she thinks the meetings are for snot
> nosed brats who are the brats? The SL kids or all
> the rest that are supposed to be redistricted?
> Because if she thinks likely redistricted kids are
> brats and she talks to her husband and gets it
> from him and they BOTH agree then he isn't looking
> at this with an open mind, as one should in his
> position. He should be FIRED just for that!
>
> And for the poster who said that redistricted
> parents are trying to see it in the best light and
> move on, well, we really have to start making
> plans if they do this because there is no very
> little time to get our kids into other schools. We
> can keep fighting this but it is horribly obvious
> that the SB could not care less - seems so
> criminal.


Yes, I noticed that when Candy mentioned "going to meetings everynight.." and I wondered, what were the meetings for exactly? More likely related to the redistricting. Obviously there is "an open mind" problem with most of these sbs..especially Gibson. In a newspaper article from the Washington Post, he said it was their turn (South Lakes)..what was the hell was that? Their turn? What kind of attitude was that? It does not make sense to send a handful of kids to South Lakes to help address their problems. These kind of problems should have been addressed 5-10 years ago or more like 2 years ago before the birth of the botched up boundary study. Then maybe just maybe this whole picture would be alot different now if everything was out on the table to talk about these issues--you are talking about taking a community and part of a community to a high school with a different approach such as the IB program.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Parent ()
Date: January 28, 2008 01:02PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIGtf_ula8k

Dean Tistadts wife referring to husband:
“He is out almost every single night of the week at meetings for snotty-nosed little brats, …………..”

At first, I thought her scope was limited to the one student…..but, no, its for ALL students.

The comments from this Elementary school employee are an unpleasant window into her mindset as well as, that of her husbands, Mr Top Dog FCPS Administrator.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Cosmic Dance ()
Date: January 28, 2008 01:32PM

The whirlpool is getting smaller and smaller. The event horizon is near. Only the few left in this vortex of an underground will be sucked in. The rest will join the cosmic dance and carry on, turning their faces to the illuminating nebulae, inspired by an inner joy at being part of such a wondrous universe, after all.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: January 28, 2008 02:12PM

Chain Link Fence - interesting point you raise. But the reality is that in terms of expenditure of resources in dollar terms, the FRM/ESOL crowd receives plenty in terms of per capita expenditure. In fact, when it comes to ESOL, the inertia behind these programs is indeed the problem - because when sustaining the ESOL program becomes an end in and of itself it frustrates, rather than furthers, integration. And the immigrants that have succeeded here have done so because first and foremost they have mastered the language - something that the ESOL programs tend not to incent very well. But that is a little tangential - because what I really wanted to address is the paternalism implicit in your post. People may not be speaking for the ESOL/FRM students - but I am not sure who should do so - besides the usual cadre of guilty white liberals who tend to look at these groups as victims not capable of improvement without government programs, carefully tended, of course, by the best social work has to offer. Nothing is really keeping parents of FRM/ESOL from speaking out - and by large the reason they do not do so is that there is a insufficient aculturation to education in those communities. And that insufficiency is manifest at a place like SLHS - not because it is worse - in fact it is likely better than similarly affected communities - but rather because there are so many surrounding communities with maniacally devoted and involved parents that will not waste a moment in speaking out for their kids (181 pages proves the point). So in the end it is not about who is speaking for these people (or egads, what someone might be saying about "them"), but rather about what strategies really work to improve their lot. That of course is the ten ton elephant in education right now - but suffice to say that if there were cultural inclinations to support education in the affected homes there would be but little passing concern as to whom is speaking for "them". As shocking as it may sound, stigmatizing people is one way to get them to care - it has worked with welfare reform, for example.

I am looking at this issue a bit differently than when I first started. What is happening at South Lakes is a mere trifle compared to what is happening in the eastern and far southern half of the county. There are quite a few elementary schools now with over 70% FRM - over 70%! And some with staggering ESOL statistics. This is not meant as a statement of judgement, but rather, as a harbinger of things to come. The vast majority of these folks, one would surmise, are recent immigrants - many of them illegal or undocumented and struggling. These immigrants are by and large not those of the 50's - refugees from Europe who buzzed through high school in three years, learning English and gaining admittance at some of our best universities and supporting unprecedented economic growth not ever seen before - many are from agrarian cultures with little background in learning. I don't envy the FCPS in years to come - these schools in a few years time are going to be putting in a number of really challenging students - and teaching them effectively - especially with a work force that has largely been academically trained to nuture rather than challenge - is going to be a headache. And this will only compound the problems of minority achievement (as traditionally defined). Viewed from this perspective, I could see how easily it is for the school board and adminstrators to be disconnected from the middle to upper middle class reality - not excusing them - but I can see how they think that the concerns of the middle class are trivial compared to what they are facing.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: BirdLover ()
Date: January 28, 2008 02:22PM

Dirty Truth handed in this excellent example of the 'whole language' concept.

"Whole language answer to Birdlover = Birdshit"


Dirty Truth, I'm giving you a little smiley face. Good job!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2008 02:32PM by BirdLover.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ChainLinkFence ()
Date: January 28, 2008 02:48PM

quantum,

I appreciate your point about the big challenge ahead for FCPS in integrating a large influx of immigrants. This is an issue facing the entire US and it presents us with a real opportunity if we are willing to put aside the traditional assumptions (from both the left and the right) of what works. The point of my earlier post was not we should throw a whole bunch of money or time at the ESOL/FRL population. Rather, I am dismayed at the sound of some South Lakes parents accusing other neighborhoods of racism--or at least a fear of diversity--when they are working their tails off to dilute the academic influence of the ESOL/FRL population at South Lakes through boundary change. I guess I wish people from all over West County would stop pointing figures, look in the mirror, shut up and listen to their neighbors--including their Spanish-speaking neighbors--and then revisit the whole issue of boundaries anew. As you point out, what we are addressing here is kid stuff next to the challenge before us all. Can't we face it honestly and openly and try to develop some model solutions here that can be used elsewhere in the county and beyond?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TheEndToAllThisIsNear ()
Date: January 28, 2008 03:33PM

The end to all this is near. The school board vote will seal the fate of redistricting and all here will realize what a waste of their time it was trying to oppose it. These are seasoned politicians and they dont lose against common citizens. If you fight so hard then the you will be more hurt when the SB votes for going through with this. Accept it and move on to other school districts if you can do so, or prepare your kids to face the harsh reality of south lakes. By showing so much opposition here and in the public meetings, you are only playing further into Stu Gibson's ego. He is gloating over his success in punishing the areas that voted against him - Fox mill and Frying pan. He is toying around with his prey before going in for the final blow at the SB vote(every one knows he has the votes to mussle this through), so dont give him the additional pleasure by showing your pain and angst. Save it to fight another day - in the next election.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WILSON ()
Date: January 28, 2008 03:41PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fmparent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Did anybody notice during Candy Tisdadt's
> scream
> > fest that she said her husband has been "going
> to
> > meetings every night" for you snot nosed
> brats...
> > What meetings? Could those be redistricting
> > meetings? If she thinks the meetings are for
> snot
> > nosed brats who are the brats? The SL kids or
> all
> > the rest that are supposed to be redistricted?
> > Because if she thinks likely redistricted kids
> are
> > brats and she talks to her husband and gets it
> > from him and they BOTH agree then he isn't
> looking
> > at this with an open mind, as one should in his
> > position. He should be FIRED just for that!
> >
> > And for the poster who said that redistricted
> > parents are trying to see it in the best light
> and
> > move on, well, we really have to start making
> > plans if they do this because there is no very
> > little time to get our kids into other schools.
> We
> > can keep fighting this but it is horribly
> obvious
> > that the SB could not care less - seems so
> > criminal.
>
>
> Yes, I noticed that when Candy mentioned "going to
> meetings everynight.." and I wondered, what were
> the meetings for exactly? More likely related to
> the redistricting. Obviously there is "an open
> mind" problem with most of these sbs..especially
> Gibson. In a newspaper article from the
> Washington Post, he said it was their turn (South
> Lakes)..what was the hell was that? Their turn?
> What kind of attitude was that? It does not make
> sense to send a handful of kids to South Lakes to
> help address their problems. These kind of
> problems should have been addressed 5-10 years ago
> or more like 2 years ago before the birth of the
> botched up boundary study. Then maybe just maybe
> this whole picture would be alot different now if
> everything was out on the table to talk about
> these issues--you are talking about taking a
> community and part of a community to a high school
> with a different approach such as the IB program.


Get ready, you are going to get F--Ked.

The SB has failed the people of Fairfax County.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: MOON ()
Date: January 28, 2008 03:44PM

Gibson and the rest of the SB need to be replaced at their next election.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: STRAUSS ()
Date: January 28, 2008 03:52PM

ALERT ALERT ALERT

To all racists

I had lunch in the town of Vienna today and I was shocked.

Latino people eating in restaurants, Latino people working in the town and also shopping.

What is going on? Put up the signs and put up the wall. Keep them out.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: CENTER ()
Date: January 28, 2008 03:59PM

Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIGtf_ula8k
>
> Dean Tistadts wife referring to husband:
> “He is out almost every single night of the week
> at meetings for snotty-nosed little brats,
> …………..”
>
> At first, I thought her scope was limited to the
> one student…..but, no, its for ALL students.
>
> The comments from this Elementary school employee
> are an unpleasant window into her mindset as well
> as, that of her husbands, Mr Top Dog FCPS
> Administrator.

Both Tisdadts need to be removed from their positions in the FCPS system.

NOW

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SMITH ()
Date: January 28, 2008 04:16PM

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maybe he is just telling her they are school
> meetings

Maybe he is telling his wife he is at meeting, when is he with someone else?

If I was him, I would not go home either, would you?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Dirty Truth ()
Date: January 28, 2008 05:03PM

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dirty Truth handed in this excellent example of
> the 'whole language' concept.
>
> "Whole language answer to Birdlover = Birdshit"
>
>
> Dirty Truth, I'm giving you a little smiley face.
> Good job!

I should get a second smiley for using everyday math.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: DNCmaven ()
Date: January 28, 2008 06:13PM

TheEndToAllThisIsNear Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The end to all this is near. The school board vote
> will seal the fate of redistricting and all here
> will realize what a waste of their time it was
> trying to oppose it. These are seasoned
> politicians and they dont lose against common
> citizens. If you fight so hard then the you will
> be more hurt when the SB votes for going through
> with this. Accept it and move on to other school
> districts if you can do so, or prepare your kids
> to face the harsh reality of south lakes. By
> showing so much opposition here and in the public
> meetings, you are only playing further into Stu
> Gibson's ego. He is gloating over his success in
> punishing the areas that voted against him - Fox
> mill and Frying pan. He is toying around with his
> prey before going in for the final blow at the SB
> vote(every one knows he has the votes to mussle
> this through), so dont give him the additional
> pleasure by showing your pain and angst. Save it
> to fight another day - in the next election.

Politicians who aggressively pursue policies which antagonize key voting blocks in future statewide races risk alienating themselves within their own party ranks. Some of the more experienced and sophisticated politicians are becoming aware of the risk that this vote poses to more important statewide elections. So, politicians pursuing personal agendas of their own without regard for the common agenda are unlikely to wield much influence or garner much support in the days ahead.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: duh ()
Date: January 28, 2008 06:55PM

I was in a large group today where Mr Tistadt was a speaker. He made a humorous reference to the flap over his wife.

I doubt he attends meetings EVERY night, but he attends LOTS of 'em.

There's one tonight, which he urged all of us to watch on Red Apple 21.

If any of you tune in...control your hatred and don't put a brick through the screen of your 50 inch plasma....remember you have at least 10 more years before you pay that thing off!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2008 07:01PM by duh.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ChannelSurfer ()
Date: January 28, 2008 07:01PM

duh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was in a large group today where Mr Tisdadt was
> a speaker. He made a humorous reference to the
> flap over his wife.
>
> I doubt he attends meetings EVERY night, but he
> attends LOTS of 'em.
>
> There's one tonight, which he urged all of us to
> watch on Red Apple 21.
>
> If any of you tune in...control your hatred and
> don't put a brick through the screen of your 50
> inch plasma....remember you have at least 10 more
> years before you pay that thing off!

What time?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TheEndToAllThisIsNear ()
Date: January 28, 2008 07:10PM

Is there any faifax county law where by we could mount a recall campaign against the likes of Stu Gibson? He might succeed in splitting and runing our communities with this vote, but it would be sweet to lauch a grass roots recall campaign and throw him out of SB. That could a fitting answer to his lies and doublespeak

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Bulldog Mom ()
Date: January 28, 2008 07:24PM

There is a recall petition already in the works.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: 2xduh ()
Date: January 28, 2008 07:54PM

TheEndToAllThisIsNear Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there any faifax county law where by we could
> mount a recall campaign against the likes of Stu
> Gibson? He might succeed in splitting and runing
> our communities with this vote, but it would be
> sweet to lauch a grass roots recall campaign and
> throw him out of SB. That could a fitting answer
> to his lies and doublespeak

Posted by: Bulldog Mom

There is a recall petition already in the works.



Yeah, if you know so much about the endtoallisnear you would have known this.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: January 28, 2008 07:59PM

ChainLinkfence - You are absolutely spot on in referencing considerable efforts that those in the community make in voluteering (or otherwise) to support kids in need in Reston, including ESOL/FRM kids. My own children completed Hunters Woods some time ago, and virtually every GT family I know volunteered at the school, and did some splendid work.

Not to be negative, and while still making clear such efforts are helpful, the results obtained through such efforts when measured against 12th grade progress is disappointing. If Reston (or the rest of well off Fairfax County), with all of its resources and social programs, can't make a significant dent in the achievement gaps, it really calls into question as to what can work. I hazard that most knowledgeable folks would opine that an intense, but eclectic approach is order - with no easy answers.

And the point was not to be disrespectful to any one group - but heck, there are some very hard realities with the burgeoning demographics. And they won't get better by ignoring them.

And cheers for your insightful comments.

And because it bears such an imprint as regards public schools and the expenditure of money (believe it or not, not the most important factor in education), here is a link to a somewhat dated, but still enervating CATO institute study on what happened after social engineers spend billions upon billions on the troubled Kansas City schools, with nothing to show for it:

www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

And to those inclined to dismiss anything by the CATO institute as free market agitprop, read just how little disagreement there is that these expenditures did virtually no good. This is a siren call that our own board should spend its money wisely.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: CAPS ()
Date: January 29, 2008 11:23AM

http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/index.html

Fairfax CAPS is a coalition of civic organizations and neighborhood associations representing thousands of homeowners and parents who desire a more transparent, inclusive and democratic process for determining the direction of Fairfax County schools. Formed in 2008 following a tumultuous West County boundary debate, Fairfax CAPS is a voice for those who feel unrepresented by elected officials and county staff.

In times of financial challenges and unfunded federal mandates, we will work collaboratively with all community stakeholders to keep Fairfax County’s public schools at the top of America’s primary and secondary educational institutions. Where problems exist, we will meet them head on and make sure the best solutions are considered and utilized for the benefit of all students. We will bring our talent, background and experience—a population of highly educated and deeply committed people with dozens of languages, nationalities and ethnicities among us—to help Fairfax County Public Schools embrace its diversity and succeed in the future.

We welcome all in the community to join us in advancing the cause of educational excellence for all of the children of Fairfax County.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IB Veritas ()
Date: January 29, 2008 01:43PM

Fairfax CAPS is spreading misinformation and falsehoods about South Lakes and the IB program. Take it all with a big dose of NaCl. A BIG one. Some of the same people who tried to poison the school (and even other schools like Woodson) seven or eight years ago are at it again. The people running that show are either clueless about IB or they are deliberately skewing information for their own god-knows-what ends.

Those of you who really do care about your kids will become informed ON YOUR OWN and not rely on this agenda-driven group. Go to the school itself, look up IB syllabi yourself, talk with college admissions officers yourself, take a statistics course yourself so you can at the very least understand the scores that have been bandied about to "prove" South Lakes is inferior. You have no excuse for succumbing to propaganda.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: false ()
Date: January 29, 2008 01:56PM

TWO BLATENT DISCREPANCIES ON THE FAIRFAXCAPS SITE:

FALSE: "Non-Diploma students take one or two of these courses." (in reference to IB HL courses)

TRUTH: Students not in the diploma program can take as many IB classes (HL or SL) as they choose.


"The School Board Just Approved a NEW South County Middle School despite nearby schools with capacity to absorb the student population through redistricting."

So you would advocate redistricting in this circumstance, but not in the case that your children will be sent to South Lakes.


FairfaxCAPS is an extremely biased site. It does not tell the whole truth.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: word ()
Date: January 29, 2008 02:02PM

Fairfax CAPS http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/index.html - great web site!

It's about time someone stood up to the SL PTSA blowhards.

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FairfaxCAPS
Posted by: GoCAPS! ()
Date: January 29, 2008 02:19PM

Great to read a positive statement about our schools after all the infighting. Saw something on the Fairness in School Sports site about this, too. Were they on the news?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FairfaxCAPS
Posted by: Referee ()
Date: January 29, 2008 02:21PM

No, I think that's tonight. Anybody going?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: DoubleFace ()
Date: January 29, 2008 02:26PM

false Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The School Board Just Approved a NEW South County
> Middle School despite nearby schools with capacity
> to absorb the student population through
> redistricting."
>
> So you would advocate redistricting in this
> circumstance, but not in the case that your
> children will be sent to South Lakes.
>

No, just want to point out the fact that SB is double standard.


The following quotes are from the 1/24/08 FCSB meeting

Gibson - "I would no sooner sacrifice one community for another than I
would take resources away from one child to support another."

Strauss - "There comes a point where we can no longer continue to
shift students around..."

Storck - "Sending students outside their community is an anathema to
me."

Options: ReplyQuote
Quotes from Gibson, Strauss and Storck
Posted by: RationalMind ()
Date: January 29, 2008 02:40PM

Dear DoubleFace, Those are great quotes. Do you know the dates and sources? Thanks!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: January 29, 2008 03:24PM

false Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TWO BLATENT DISCREPANCIES ON THE FAIRFAXCAPS
> SITE:
>
> FALSE: "Non-Diploma students take one or two of
> these courses." (in reference to IB HL courses)
>
> TRUTH: Students not in the diploma program can
> take as many IB classes (HL or SL) as they
> choose.
>
>
> "The School Board Just Approved a NEW South County
> Middle School despite nearby schools with capacity
> to absorb the student population through
> redistricting."
>
> So you would advocate redistricting in this
> circumstance, but not in the case that your
> children will be sent to South Lakes.
>
>
> FairfaxCAPS is an extremely biased site. It does
> not tell the whole truth.

It seems FCPS will send students to South Lakes and in this budget cycle it would be more cost effective to send Aldrin than all of Fox Mill and a portion of Floris. Grandfathering for areas that go to Westfield and South Lakes? Why send the part of Fox Mill to South Lakes that most likely will be in the Coppermine process and used to go to Floris before the roof collapse?

If these people want AP just do it. Ask for some money from the teacher leadership slush fund and get better start times. There's a budget question and each kid costs more than twice that of AP in fees before you add in the training , school registration fees, IB diploma coordinator job at each school, IB middle school , it keeps on going.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FairfaxCAPS
Posted by: Goebbels ()
Date: January 29, 2008 03:49PM

GoCAPS! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great to read a positive statement about our
> schools after all the infighting. Saw something
> on the Fairness in School Sports site about this,
> too. Were they on the news?


Yes, a wonderful site full of "true facts" from people with only the sincerest intentions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: January 29, 2008 05:03PM

false Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TWO BLATENT DISCREPANCIES ON THE FAIRFAXCAPS
> SITE:
>
> FALSE: "Non-Diploma students take one or two of
> these courses." (in reference to IB HL courses)
>
> TRUTH: Students not in the diploma program can
> take as many IB classes (HL or SL) as they
> choose.
>
>
> "The School Board Just Approved a NEW South County
> Middle School despite nearby schools with capacity
> to absorb the student population through
> redistricting."
>
> So you would advocate redistricting in this
> circumstance, but not in the case that your
> children will be sent to South Lakes.
>
>
> FairfaxCAPS is an extremely biased site. It does
> not tell the whole truth.


How is that extremely biased? SL supporters put their noses up towards McNair community! In my opinion, the ESOL/FRM should not be a main factor in justifying a redistricting. The RD really should be halted until we examine the real issues of South Lakes and why SL is not keeping their own students and what we can do to help SL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bdimag ()
Date: January 29, 2008 05:04PM

page 182 GOD DAMN

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FoxMillFlorisMaybe ()
Date: January 29, 2008 06:39PM

OMG. This CAPS website place is incredible! I can't believe it! I REALLY can't believe it. Who's nightmarish rant is it? Who is responsible for this? I want to know. I live in a neighborhood that may be redistricted. I've had my doubts, but I've been careful about listening to every side. THIS website in no way provides a balanced view. I fear that if my neighbors believe any of it, they will be so biased about going that my own kids will suffer. Talk about dividing a neighborhood!

Tell me who is responsible for the utter nonsense in there! Is that person willing to step forth and declare himself??? And defend the -- perspective (if you can call it that)?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: samgee ()
Date: January 29, 2008 07:15PM

I remember the furor of the Mantua neighborhood( which feeds into Woodson HS )regarding the introduction of the IB program. This is Gerry Connolly territory and what Mantua parents want, they get. Mantua parents are very astute about what is a superior education for their children and they chose AP wisely.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: duh ()
Date: January 29, 2008 07:26PM

bdimag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> page 182 GOD DAMN


Ain't going to make 200....there was a 15+ hour lull last night.

I think the final stage has been reached. (Or they've realized that it's later than they thought and are busy filling out private school apps)

The stages of loss are:

Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my children graduate, but NOT from SL!"
Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: MorePages ()
Date: January 29, 2008 07:56PM

duh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bdimag Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > page 182 GOD DAMN
>
>
> Ain't going to make 200....there was a 15+ hour
> lull last night.
>
> I think the final stage has been reached. (Or
> they've realized that it's later than they thought
> and are busy filling out private school apps)
>
> The stages of loss are:
>
> Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be
> happening."
> Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
> Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my children
> graduate, but NOT from SL!"
> Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with
> anything?"
> Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."


There will be more pages to this thread because the RD is not a done deal yet either a poor done deal or no deal. Anybody want to bet it will hit 200? I think it will.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NaC1 ()
Date: January 29, 2008 08:56PM

IB Veritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax CAPS is spreading misinformation and
> falsehoods about South Lakes and the IB program.
> Take it all with a big dose of NaCl. A BIG one.
> Some of the same people who tried to poison the
> school (and even other schools like Woodson) seven
> or eight years ago are at it again. The people
> running that show are either clueless about IB or
> they are deliberately skewing information for
> their own god-knows-what ends.
>
> Those of you who really do care about your kids
> will become informed ON YOUR OWN and not rely on
> this agenda-driven group. Go to the school itself,
> look up IB syllabi yourself, talk with college
> admissions officers yourself, take a statistics
> course yourself so you can at the very least
> understand the scores that have been bandied about
> to "prove" South Lakes is inferior. You have no
> excuse for succumbing to propaganda.


oh boo hoo! more like a big dose of NaC1 H20 flowing down your face in the form of tears.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ap_rocks ()
Date: January 29, 2008 10:13PM

NaCl - it is actually SL that is spreading falsehoods about IB. The truth is only a handfull - about 34 students from the entire SL high school got a IB Diploma which is the real thing. Stop passing IB classes as the IB Diploma. To hold an entire school curricullum hostage for the benifit of 30 to 40 students is crazy. Throw IB out and get in AP.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: January 29, 2008 10:24PM

OMG...just checked out the CAPS site. That is pretty awesome. They have some of the same data I posted here :) like projection accuracy and transfer in / out data.

It certainly is one sided, but I don't think they have an obligation to try to present any point of view other than their own...sort of the anti-SLPTSA if you will.

Even if there are a handful of misleading or outright wrong statements there, its is more than made up for, as the site presents a lot of information to make the case for three main points:

- SL district demographics do not supprt the "aging" hypothesis to explain the attrition of high school age students. Instead, the data shows students leaving the district leading up to and duing their high school years. I would be impressed to see any SLHS fans be able to present alternative data that counters this.

- IB programs for non-diploma candidates are less effective for college credit at select Virginia colleges, if only because you need to take two-year HL classes vs. one year AP classes. Again, it would be interesting to see any factual counter to this, rather than just a blanket complaint that "its not accurate".

- The most pronounced recent attrition occurred durin the time that IB was in place. This could just be a coincidence, but still it is an interesting point.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 29, 2008 11:20PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> - The most pronounced recent attrition occurred
> durin the time that IB was in place. This could
> just be a coincidence, but still it is an
> interesting point.

It also parallels the former principal's tenure. It's hard to separate the two influences.

No one has come up with an explanation for this with solid supporting data, just lots of speculation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 30, 2008 03:57AM

CAPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/index.html
>
> Fairfax CAPS is a coalition of civic organizations
> and neighborhood associations representing
> thousands of homeowners and parents who desire a
> more transparent, inclusive and democratic process
> for determining the direction of Fairfax County
> schools. Formed in 2008 following a tumultuous
> West County boundary debate, Fairfax CAPS is a
> voice for those who feel unrepresented by elected
> officials and county staff.
>
> In times of financial challenges and unfunded
> federal mandates, we will work collaboratively
> with all community stakeholders to keep Fairfax
> County’s public schools at the top of America’s
> primary and secondary educational institutions.
> Where problems exist, we will meet them head on
> and make sure the best solutions are considered
> and utilized for the benefit of all students. We
> will bring our talent, background and experience—a
> population of highly educated and deeply committed
> people with dozens of languages, nationalities and
> ethnicities among us—to help Fairfax County Public
> Schools embrace its diversity and succeed in the
> future.
>
> We welcome all in the community to join us in
> advancing the cause of educational excellence for
> all of the children of Fairfax County.

Great Website! Very well done.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 30, 2008 04:10AM

IB Veritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax CAPS is spreading misinformation and
> falsehoods about South Lakes and the IB program.
> Take it all with a big dose of NaCl. A BIG one.
> Some of the same people who tried to poison the
> school (and even other schools like Woodson) seven
> or eight years ago are at it again. The people
> running that show are either clueless about IB or
> they are deliberately skewing information for
> their own god-knows-what ends.
>
> Those of you who really do care about your kids
> will become informed ON YOUR OWN and not rely on
> this agenda-driven group. Go to the school itself,
> look up IB syllabi yourself, talk with college
> admissions officers yourself, take a statistics
> course yourself so you can at the very least
> understand the scores that have been bandied about
> to "prove" South Lakes is inferior. You have no
> excuse for succumbing to propaganda.

The VAST majority of people in FCPS do NOT want IB. That includes people in the BEST high schools, Langley, TJ, Madison, Woodson, and Oakton.

What part of DO NOT WANT do you not understand? Might ALLLLL those people know something? Do you think that they just might know a tad more than your little minority of IB supporters? Or are ALLLL those smart people simply ill informed idiots who haven't done any research and have no clue about colleges?

It is incredible that FCPS will make history when they force students to move to an IB only high school. The first time it the US that has EVER happened.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 30, 2008 04:15AM

>>>>The following quotes are from the 1/24/08 FCSB meeting

Gibson - "I would no sooner sacrifice one community for another than I
would take resources away from one child to support another."

Strauss - "There comes a point where we can no longer continue to
shift students around..."

Storck - "Sending students outside their community is an anathema to
me."<<<<

WOW, just WOW.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Trying Again...
Posted by: carly ()
Date: January 30, 2008 07:00AM

It is not about making kids believe their neighbors are inferior......I am sensing a chip on a shoulder here. The point is that it is about the kids!!!!!

How dare you say parents are coaching kids to believe "that if they don't go to their PROJECTED school (one they haven't even experienced yet), they will be traumatized."? Only 18 actual kids would go to SL from Madison. 18! These affected ‘Madison’ kids are in the main kids who have 'experienced' Madison through their family, and their community. Mine has cheered at Madison games since he was in K. We have put 3 older sibs through Madison and now we have to tell our very sad and deeply impacted kid that he may go to the 'family traditional school’
He likely won't wear the sibs Madison colors and if he tries out for Freshman Footbal, he will be a Seahawk? Are you suggesting 'no sense...no feeling' here?

It can't be a good thing to single out such a small VIENNA community and forcibly move a handful of Madison kids. How can this even be toted as ‘ for the greater good’ at SL? 18 kids will have no impact on SL. It will benefit no one and deeply affect those being moved. You make a crazy, ill-informed and completely non- empathetic assertion and you insult the intelligence of the families who are fighting for the right to attend the school many have already become familiar with, socially integrated in and deeply attached to.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Avenger ()
Date: January 30, 2008 07:31AM

You need to know that the SB does not give a dame about you or your kids and they are very good at giving lip service.

They have failed you and will continue to fail you.

Now stoprd and fairfax caps need to make them pay for their bad decisions.

It is good to see several former SB members helping different groups fight the SB with good advice.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: gibsonsoublespeak ()
Date: January 30, 2008 08:53AM

Cant believe Gibson is spinning shamelessly like this. After working on personal agendas against Fox Mill and Floris, he still have the nerve to carry on with his political posturing, using the the very kids he is denying educational oportunities for. Pure 100% Evil

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>The following quotes are from the 1/24/08 FCSB
> meeting
>
> Gibson - "I would no sooner sacrifice one
> community for another than I
> would take resources away from one child to
> support another."
>
> Strauss - "There comes a point where we can no
> longer continue to
> shift students around..."
>
> Storck - "Sending students outside their community
> is an anathema to
> me."<<<<
>
> WOW, just WOW.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LIES ()
Date: January 30, 2008 09:23AM

gibsonsoublespeak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cant believe Gibson is spinning shamelessly like
> this. After working on personal agendas against
> Fox Mill and Floris, he still have the nerve to
> carry on with his political posturing, using the
> the very kids he is denying educational
> oportunities for. Pure 100% Evil
>
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>>The following quotes are from the 1/24/08
> FCSB
> > meeting
> >
> > Gibson - "I would no sooner sacrifice one
> > community for another than I
> > would take resources away from one child to
> > support another."
> >
> > Strauss - "There comes a point where we can no
> > longer continue to
> > shift students around..."
> >
> > Storck - "Sending students outside their
> community
> > is an anathema to
> > me."<<<<
> >
> > WOW, just WOW.


This SB lies.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: January 30, 2008 09:41AM

IB Veritas - it may well be the case that FAIRFAX CAPS' website has inaccurate information, but given your understanding of the issues, is it not incumbent upon you to explain just what those inaccuracies are? They clearly attribute the "exodus" of SLHS students to the IB program - but that is just an opinion - or, depending upon your views, informed or uninformed speculation. They of course are free to spout their opinions.

My own sense of intuition is that the IB program probably does contribute to the exodus, but in terms of numbers, that contribution is marginal. My guess is that South Lakes has had several factors working against it: i) a less than competent administration (and to be clear, indications are that this has changed materially); ii) a drop out rate that is higher than surrounding schools and which is at the same time not fixed with any statistical confidence as drop out rates are notoriously the least reliably reported sets of data in the public schools; and iii) the avoidance of the school because there are and always will be parents who do not want to send their kids to schools with students perceived as "bad" students. Add item iv), if you will, relative to the IB program - the recent data seems to reflect more transferred out to AP than into IB, but I don't think it has the primacy of the above three items. Again, just speculation. Perhaps someone can confirm who is closer to the school.

I think this does in a sense confirm whatever the merits of the IB program are (and I think for the right kind of student they are considerable), it is far from a program that is for everyone and it has, as mentioned numerous times previously, have its challenges in terms of "fit" for many students. This of course doesn't make it a negative - indeed, its unique attributes may make it desirable for those that do in fact "fit" - but when applying the totality of the facts and circumstances - it puts defenders of the IB program at SLHS in a tough spot. Irrespective of any analytic arguments, SLHS is - as the FAIRFAX CAPS data reflects, NOT in a seller's market. It is in a sense in the same straits as many mortgage holders and property owners now are - they need to attract buyers (students), and for whatever reason, seem to be losing ground on the demographic treadmill at a pace considerably faster than its surrounding brethren. I say this not to argue over the merits of the IB program - the real debate ought to be over fashioning the correct fit for the majority of students while maintaining a sufficient level of academic challenge - but rather to point out the relative weakness of the SLHS marketing position. It is not an easy sell, and it strikes me that a strategic confluence of open mindedness, willingness to embrace change, as well as good old fashioned positive salesmanship might work - but even then, it is far from a guarantee. Administrative fiat will not in and of itself fix the demographic slide. Good luck.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FACT ()
Date: January 30, 2008 12:26PM

LIES Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gibsonsoublespeak Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cant believe Gibson is spinning shamelessly
> like
> > this. After working on personal agendas against
> > Fox Mill and Floris, he still have the nerve to
> > carry on with his political posturing, using
> the
> > the very kids he is denying educational
> > oportunities for. Pure 100% Evil
> >
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >>>>The following quotes are from the 1/24/08
> > FCSB
> > > meeting
> > >
> > > Gibson - "I would no sooner sacrifice one
> > > community for another than I
> > > would take resources away from one child to
> > > support another."
> > >
> > > Strauss - "There comes a point where we can
> no
> > > longer continue to
> > > shift students around..."
> > >
> > > Storck - "Sending students outside their
> > community
> > > is an anathema to
> > > me."<<<<
> > >
> > > WOW, just WOW.
>
>
> This SB lies.

Remember who runs the SB, his name is Jack Dale and all roads lead to him.

He is the big problem in FCPS.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Truthteller ()
Date: January 30, 2008 12:48PM

Jack Dale doesn't run FCPS

Aspen systems, the outside contracter hired by FCPS and the monster Jack, Kathy, and Phil created called Strategic Governance run it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IB vs AP ()
Date: January 30, 2008 12:53PM

Many have stated that one of the main issues against the redistricting is IB. Many have said that only around 8% of the student population receive the full IB diploma (meaning a passing score of at least 4 on 6 IB exams, C.A.S equal to 150 hours, TOK class, with passing marks, and the Extended Essay with passing marks).

Many students of course pursue some IB classes and not the full diploma.

According to the College Board, 15% of all students in the nation, take and receive a passing score of at least 3 on 1 AP test. (look at their summary reports) A much lower percentage of AP students therefor take 6-8 AP exams and earn passing scores on all..which would conceivably equal to the full IB diploma stats.

In other words, the percentages of students benefitting from either AP or IB is roughly equal.

All FCPS families should be advocating to bring back honors courses at the junior and senior grades. That would benefit the majority of students who won't take 6-8 AP courses or the full IB diploma.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: January 30, 2008 01:11PM

An AP student can take whatever number of classes he/she wishes to take and get the full benefit of it without any dependencies. While with IB, if he does not have the diploma, whether colleges accept it is questionable.

IB is a great program for anyone wishes to pursue. For students with different strengths and interests, it lacks the flexibility offered by AP.

"According to the College Board, 15% of all students in the nation, take and receive a passing score of at least 3 on 1 AP test. (look at their summary reports) A much lower percentage of AP students therefor take 6-8 AP exams and earn passing scores on all..which would conceivably equal to the full IB diploma stats. "

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: January 30, 2008 01:18PM

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An AP student can take whatever number of classes
> he/she wishes to take and get the full benefit of
> it without any dependencies. While with IB, if he
> does not have the diploma, whether colleges accept
> it is questionable.
>
> IB is a great program for anyone wishes to pursue.
> For students with different strengths and
> interests, it lacks the flexibility offered by
> AP.
>
> "According to the College Board, 15% of all
> students in the nation, take and receive a passing
> score of at least 3 on 1 AP test. (look at their
> summary reports) A much lower percentage of AP
> students therefor take 6-8 AP exams and earn
> passing scores on all..which would conceivably
> equal to the full IB diploma stats. "


Yes, AP has flexibility, but students can take HL IB courses and not do the full IB diploma. The issue is they don't get credit for SL IB classes unless it is part of the diploma. But, I would venture that the majority of AP students in FCPS take 1-3 AP classes. An IB student could also take 3 HL IB classes, and not do the full diploma. They could pick and choose the subjects for those 3 courses, just like they can in AP. Obviuosly though, those 3 HL classes span two years a piece, and that is admittedly different from the AP.

My major point wasn't to say one is better than the other, but that both serve an equal percentage of students.

We need honors courses for our juniors and seniors who don't want to take numerous AP or IB courses.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: January 30, 2008 01:18PM

Yes, what he (or she) said...

IB is for the committed few who complete the diploma. Those that fail (including, surprisingly, 20% of the candidates who do everything needed, end up NOT getting the diploma...e.g. in 2006, 21 out of 26 got it at SLHS...that's gotta suck for the 20%!)

If you only want to spend (say) five class-years on college credit courses in high school, taking (say) one sophomore year, two junior year, and two senior year, AP is the program for you. That would probably let you place out of a whole term at many colleges if you chose classes wisely (and passed the exams). Plus three of your AP grades would be on your college entrance exam.

You'd have to take five IB HL classes to get the same effect, probably all in your senior year, at which point you would drop from exhaustion due to busywork homework.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: January 30, 2008 01:33PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, what he (or she) said...
>
> IB is for the committed few who complete the
> diploma. Those that fail (including,
> surprisingly, 20% of the candidates who do
> everything needed, end up NOT getting the
> diploma...e.g. in 2006, 21 out of 26 got it at
> SLHS...that's gotta suck for the 20%!)
>
> If you only want to spend (say) five class-years
> on college credit courses in high school, taking
> (say) one sophomore year, two junior year, and two
> senior year, AP is the program for you. That
> would probably let you place out of a whole term
> at many colleges if you chose classes wisely (and
> passed the exams). Plus three of your AP grades
> would be on your college entrance exam.
>
> You'd have to take five IB HL classes to get the
> same effect, probably all in your senior year, at
> which point you would drop from exhaustion due to
> busywork homework.


If you pass those AP exams you are right. But according to the College Board themselves, 15% of HS students take an AP exam and receive a passing score. So the student you hypothetically describe above is probably close to the 8% served by the full IB diploma program.

If the issue is the percentage of students served by a program, than the programs are equal.

If the issue is college credit only, then AP might win out when you look at a course by course basis. An IB diploma student can earn up to 38 credits at Tech, 38 credits is the cap for AP credit as well at Tech.

We need honors classes for our juniors and seniors.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: January 30, 2008 01:43PM

You miss the point: IB does not have the flexibility to all students. For example, for a highly motivited kid strong in science and math, he probably has to struggle more within an IB school. Still uses the science-math oriented kid as an example, going to an IB school forces the kid to take courses required by IB and takes away *choices* for the student.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting - honors courses for 11th and 12th
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: January 30, 2008 01:50PM

AP vs. IB, Your suggestion about bringing back honors courses for juniors and seniors makes lots of sense. Ann Monday, the former Assistant Superintendent for Instructional Services, was quoted in the Washington Post Fairfax Extra a couple of years ago stating that "research shows that" it's best to have only two levels, which is supposedly why FCPS eliminated that third and middle level.

I've never seen any research along these lines, and suspect that it doesn't exist. Meanwhile, parents and students have been asking for years to have those honors (middle level) courses reinstated. Daniel DeVise wrote an article in the Post December 12, 2004 about this issue, quoting parents and students about how classes are either advanced or remedial, and the middle was "being squeezed out."

The national percentage of students taking AP classes is far lower than the percentage of FCPS students taking AP classes. My guess is that half or more the students in AP schools take and pass at least one AP course during high school, but I'm sure somebody else can find recent data and post it.

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > "According to the College Board, 15% of all
> > students in the nation, take and receive a
> passing
> > score of at least 3 on 1 AP test. (look at
> their
> > summary reports) A much lower percentage of AP
> > students therefor take 6-8 AP exams and earn
> > passing scores on all..which would conceivably
> > equal to the full IB diploma stats. "
>
>
> Yes, AP has flexibility, but students can take HL
> IB courses and not do the full IB diploma. The
> issue is they don't get credit for SL IB classes
> unless it is part of the diploma. But, I would
> venture that the majority of AP students in FCPS
> take 1-3 AP classes. An IB student could also
> take 3 HL IB classes, and not do the full diploma.
> They could pick and choose the subjects for those
> 3 courses, just like they can in AP. Obviuosly
> though, those 3 HL classes span two years a piece,
> and that is admittedly different from the AP.
>
> My major point wasn't to say one is better than
> the other, but that both serve an equal percentage
> of students.
>
> We need honors courses for our juniors and seniors
> who don't want to take numerous AP or IB courses.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: January 30, 2008 01:52PM

For Fairfax county, the stats are more like 55% of students at AP schools take at least one exam, and 70% of them pass.

Search the FCPS web site for AP, its the first document listed, the numbers are halfway down.

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