Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer Wrote:
> > ... The South Lakes renovation WAS NOT a true
> > renovation which is updating HVAC, electrical,
> > windows , bathrooms, etc. South Lakes got a
> NEW
> > BUILDING or TRANSFORMATION including an
> ADDITION.
>
> Please clarify. What did South Lakes get that does
> not come under the category of an FCPS renovation?
> Drive by Woodson on Main Street right next to
> Fairfax City and see all the construction work.
> Its current renovation includes FIVE additions.

IMHO Woodson was overcrowded [no way to move anyone to Falls Church??]and South Lakes undercrowded. SL's got a new 2 story art wing and I think FCPS should not have expanded. What are purposes of the 5 Woodson additions? Any FCPS central administrative functions? I also do not believe Langley and Glasgow should have gotten additions.

taxpayer Wrote:

>
> IMHO Woodson was overcrowded and South Lakes
> undercrowded. SL's got a new 2 story art wing and
> I think FCPS should not have expanded. What are
> purposes of the 5 Woodson additions? Any FCPS
> central administrative functions? I also do not
> believe Langley and Glasgow should have gotten
> additions.

Glasgow didn't get an addition, they have a new building after many years (more than a decade) of overcrowding and modulars/trailers.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/0/BB39558A110BC26E872573B600730E80?OpenDocument

Agenda Item

56.02 Discussion
Meeting: 01/24/2008 Work Session No. 55-56
Category: 56. Forum on Board Topics - 5:30 p.m.
Agenda Type: Information



Agenda Item Content



School Board response to Enrollment Task Force (Kory)
Capacity determination report for the School Board (Kory)
Possibility of a staff study on the feasibility and desirability of various alternatives for increasing utilization of South Lakes HS enrollment capacity without changing high school boundaries (Raney)
Process used by schools for the implementation of level 4 GT services and FLES (Wilson)
School Board member profiles on the web/Meet Your School Board (Storck)
Board members and Back-to-School night messages (Storck--schedule in February 2008)


Board members may also bring forth additional topics for discussion.



There still may be hope for an alternative the the RD. Lets try to support Raney in anyway we can!

I one of those advantagely enrolled students attending South Lakes high school and I really dont know why you would want to spread all these malicious. cruel and hateful driven lies about our peacefu community. Drug wars, gangs shooting is in the hallways, unwed mothers, crack babies, sex everywhere you look around, cheeleaders doing wiggle dancings with lewd expressions and the such. None of this is even remotely far from the truth. And I don't know what Matt and his evil spot is all about but my guess is he is dissing us with that spot. South Lakes doesn't want any of you with your bile spewing forth at us. We are happy stdents with ourselves. Take your designer clothing which we don't need, we wear our own clothes, thank you very much. And, no Matt, you won't go blind at out school with your stupid spot. There thats all for now. But, dont worry I will be back, oh yes.

taxpayer Wrote:
> IMHO Woodson was overcrowded and South Lakes
> undercrowded. SL's got a new 2 story art wing and
> I think FCPS should not have expanded. What are
> purposes of the 5 Woodson additions? Any FCPS
> central administrative functions? I also do not
> believe Langley and Glasgow should have gotten
> additions.

Woodson should just have had a whole new building constructed, using the same reasons as the new Glasgow: Faster, cheaper, and end up with a better product.

According to the CIP, Woodson is not getting more student capacity. Over the years Woodson has received a couple other additions, including the largest Special Ed center in the County, but no core space was added so the gyms, locker rooms, library, etc. were inadequate.

To answer your questions:

1) The five additions are a science wing (with space for some some other functions so the library can expand), performing arts rooms, school office staff, a weight room-driver's ed classroom addition, and a cheer-gymnastics-dance gym.

2) The staff addition is for school staff, like making room for more ESOL assistants. However, the Department of Information Technology continues to occupy an entire wing plus a lot of fenced-off parking. This space, among other things, is used to store spare parts for fire alarms for the entire school system. It would appear these central maintenance and supply functions should be moved out of the high school which, as you point out, is over-capacity.

The Woodson community has been begging for years for a larger main gym. If you have attended any of their basketball games you can see why! Instead they are getting some locker room space and other gym facilities that are inadequate. Example: The new cheer-gymnastics-dance gym does not include enough space for a "cheer floor". STEPHANIE - CAN YOU EXPLAIN to us mere parents what that means?

sorry, I AM one. ooops!!!! lol

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/0/
> BB39558A110BC26E872573B600730E80?OpenDocument
>
> Agenda Item
>
> 56.02 Discussion
> Meeting: 01/24/2008 Work Session No. 55-56
> Category: 56. Forum on Board Topics - 5:30 p.m.
> Agenda Type: Information
>
>
>
> Agenda Item Content
>
>
>
> School Board response to Enrollment Task Force
> (Kory)
> Capacity determination report for the School Board
> (Kory)
> Possibility of a staff study on the feasibility
> and desirability of various alternatives for
> increasing utilization of South Lakes HS
> enrollment capacity without changing high school
> boundaries (Raney)
> Process used by schools for the implementation of
> level 4 GT services and FLES (Wilson)
> School Board member profiles on the web/Meet Your
> School Board (Storck)
> Board members and Back-to-School night messages
> (Storck--schedule in February 2008)
>
>
> Board members may also bring forth additional
> topics for discussion.
>
>
>
> There still may be hope for an alternative the the
> RD. Lets try to support Raney in anyway we can!


Hmm, somebody did mention the alternative somewhere in this post and found it intriguing. I certainly hope that would be the avenue because it does not make sense to snatch other communities' kids (selective) right in SL and "fix" the problem.

This is from Jim Raney's website. "As an “at large” member of the school board, my district would comprise the entirety of Fairfax County. I would be inclined to give considerable deference to the judgments of the magisterial district member(s) of the school board whose schools would be affected by proposed boundary changes."

The stopRD crowd has failed to unseat Stu Gibson and Kathy Smith. Raney was the only candidate to win supported by stopRD. Too little too late.


Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There still may be hope for an alternative the the
> RD. Lets try to support Raney in anyway we can!

When you look at the map showing the School zones, you will notice some interesting "Islands". I feel bad for the folks in the Madison "Island", as it appears that they are the "token" community area being pulled into South Lakes, in order for the FCPS Staff to show the citizens that they are fulfilling one of the 8 criteria, which is the "elimination of Islands".

What is interesting, is the new island being created if McNair Elementary is left a Westfield. In addition, it almost looks like part of Crossfield is an Island that feeds to Oakton.

Woodson, McLean and Langley both have interesting "Islands" as well.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/maps/images/maps/handouts/pdf07/HighSchoolAttendanceAreas.pdf

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point is not every kid has the time to do these
> community service and other extra activity to earn
> a IB diploma. Take for example a student who is in
> a sport that requires about 18 hrs of training per
> week. It is physically not possible to do anything
> other than train for the sport and do his/her
> studies.

It is completely possible to do a sport that takes up 18 hours a week and get the IB diploma. Most of the kids I know that are doing the diploma are in a school sport.

Dee.

At 1:57pm today, weren't you supposed to be in school? (raised eybrow)

Seriously though, don't worry about what you read here about your school or any school be it good, bad or indifferent. I'm sure the kids will be fine wherever they end up going.

I couldn't send my kid to a school where the cheerleaders didn't do "wiggle dances" though. Don't they do that at all schools?

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Observer,
> >
> > Why do you believe that people entering
> teaching
> > as a second career are the ones who fail the
> > PRAXIS?
> >
> >
>
> I am in the field, and those are the individuals I
> hear about most, and it is as I stated primarily
> due to the math section and older applicants not
> having had math for a bit.
>
> Education colleges have their students take the
> Praxis while taking courses, and if there are
> serious concerns (failing those tests) they
> encourage another major instead of teaching,
> rather than having the person retake the tests
> numerous times.

What major would you suggest? What major might be easier?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2008 03:55PM by Neen.

Neen Wrote:

>
> What major would you suggest? What major is might
> be easier?


how about English 101?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Wrote:
> > First of all the school should give the option
> of
> > choosing between IB and AP program. ...
> > For such people AP is the best option.
> > So, the school has to give both the choices.
> > Simply thrusting down on option is not a good
> way
> > to attract students to the school.
>
> It just does not work that way in FCPS. A school
> has either AP or IB BUT NOT BOTH. Even huge
> Robinson, arguably the largest IB school in the
> world, offers only six AP courses.
>
> In some other public school systems like George
> Mason High School in Falls Church, both programs
> are offered but that school spends far more pupil
> than do Fairfax County high schools.

Perhaps the school board will vote to have both programs at South Lakes and give them the money to do so, for a few years, in an attempt to appease those who are being forced into South Lakes. They have to give them something. Of course that won't last, eventually SL will have to choose one program over another. And of course it won't be a real AP program for many years because teachers have to agree to training for AP and they have to find math teachers qualified to teach AP calculus BC and beyond. But with the extra money being dumped into South Lakes, they might attract teachers with their small class sizes that will result. South Lakes has promised two AP classes for next year, human geography and something else, as yet the staff has not decided what they will offer.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
>
> >
> > What major would you suggest? What major is
> might
> > be easier?
>
>
> how about English 101?


That is more like a "course"..Neen was asking for a MAJOR not a course.

Madison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My point is not every kid has the time to do
> these
> > community service and other extra activity to
> earn
> > a IB diploma. Take for example a student who is
> in
> > a sport that requires about 18 hrs of training
> per
> > week. It is physically not possible to do
> anything
> > other than train for the sport and do his/her
> > studies.
>
> It is completely possible to do a sport that takes
> up 18 hours a week and get the IB diploma. Most
> of the kids I know that are doing the diploma are
> in a school sport.

How many of those over achievers are boys who are doing football, baseball, or basketball?

How many boys get the IB diploma, compared with girls? I would be it is very heavily girls. It seems most valedictorians are girls. It would seem our schools are more user friendly toward girls.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think about that, I mean you Baffled, and you Mike
> and BirdLover,especilly you, BirdLover and the
> rest of you, Neen and even you Forum Reader or
> Quantum, I get you too mixed up, whatever. Anyway
> I think you get my point.

Not my post... but I must say I'm flattered that people think of me as a big enough say so to actually try to mock me... flattered indeed.

Dee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I one of those advantagely enrolled students
> attending South Lakes high school and I really
> dont know why you would want to spread all these
> malicious. cruel and hateful driven lies about our
> peacefu community. Drug wars, gangs shooting is in
> the hallways, unwed mothers, crack babies, sex
> everywhere you look around, cheeleaders doing
> wiggle dancings with lewd expressions and the
> such. None of this is even remotely far from the
> truth. And I don't know what Matt and his evil
> spot is all about but my guess is he is dissing us
> with that spot. South Lakes doesn't want any of
> you with your bile spewing forth at us. We are
> happy stdents with ourselves. Take your designer
> clothing which we don't need, we wear our own
> clothes, thank you very much. And, no Matt, you
> won't go blind at out school with your stupid
> spot. There thats all for now. But, dont worry I
> will be back, oh yes.

Wow! I haven't read about all of those things at South Lakes!

You say that you are happy, but you sound like anything but happy.

I hope you feel better.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/0/
> BB39558A110BC26E872573B600730E80?OpenDocument
>
> Agenda Item
>
> 56.02 Discussion
> Meeting: 01/24/2008 Work Session No. 55-56
> Category: 56. Forum on Board Topics - 5:30 p.m.
> Agenda Type: Information
>
>
>
> Agenda Item Content
>
>
>
> School Board response to Enrollment Task Force
> (Kory)
> Capacity determination report for the School Board
> (Kory)
> Possibility of a staff study on the feasibility
> and desirability of various alternatives for
> increasing utilization of South Lakes HS
> enrollment capacity without changing high school
> boundaries (Raney)
> Process used by schools for the implementation of
> level 4 GT services and FLES (Wilson)
> School Board member profiles on the web/Meet Your
> School Board (Storck)
> Board members and Back-to-School night messages
> (Storck--schedule in February 2008)
>
>
> Board members may also bring forth additional
> topics for discussion.
>
>
>
> There still may be hope for an alternative the the
> RD. Lets try to support Raney in anyway we can!

It would be nice if all of these important SB meetings were televised. Or even held in a room large enough for people to attend.

Stu will win this boundary change and he will hate Jim Raney forever.

With all of these work sessions, I have to wonder how these board members keep their day jobs.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie Wrote:
> > ... even you Forum Reader or
> > Quantum, I get you too mixed up, whatever.
> Anyway
> > I think you get my point.
>
> ---
> Stephanie,
> As I wrote earlier, I purposely avoid responding
> to your comments because I do not want to appear
> to be picking on a child. However, this time you
> specifically mention me.
>
> No, I have no idea what your point is. Could you
> rephrase it using clear, concise, newspaper-style
> paragraphs?

Better yet, I'll bullet them.

1. You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to my school, so please don't use false rumors to scare others into opposing the redistricting.

2. Don't put others down simply because they bought a house in another area. The fact of the matter is; houses in Reston are usually more expensive than in Herndon. I can't help this. I'm sorry that they won't give you a Reston address when the redistricting occurs, but again, nothing is definite when you buy your house. I hope you had the common sense to know this.

3. Most of the people use the whole "I don't like the IB system" as the reason they don't want to redistrict when they've in fact lived her more then seven years. The IB system came into South Lakes in 2001 I believe, so if you've lived here longer then that it's not a valid excuse to say 'I bought my house at Oakton so they would go AP.'

4. Most of you on this forum either A) don't have children or won't be affected by this redistricing or B) have children who won't be erolled in highschool for another ten years. Sorry if this fact doesn't apply to you, but many on the forum I notice do apply. If you don't know what South Lakes is like now, then I think it's a pretty safe bet to say you can't predict the future.

5. You have no clue of what the IB program is really like! Before you assume it's a cake walk stop by those classes at South Lakes. I garuntee you that most of you couldn't begin to understand what goes on in some of those higher level physics, math, and biology classes. The IB program is not simply used to attain the IB program, it's for students looking to challenge themself beyond the norm of highschool in any course. If a student chooses to apply themself beyond the norm in every course so be it! We reward these students who apply themself beyond the norm in every course, write their extended essays, and complete the community service required with an IB Diploma, however no IB Diploma is needed to graduate. Anyone can earn IB certificates [completion of an IB course].

And a bunch of other reasons, but these are the main five I think needed to come out!

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> What major would you suggest? What major might be
> easier?


The academic advisor would simply look, with the student, at credits earned and determine which major makes the most sense. If the student had been primarily taking English courses in addition to education courses, than the student would be steered towards English.

It is not so much which major is easier than education, after all HS teachers often have master's degrees in the subject they are teaching (and may not have an education BA), it is an issue of "if this person can't pass these standardized tests, how can they assist students in passing SOL's or other standardized tests." An academic advisor would want to work with the student who is failing those tests to determine why, and then would determine, if retakes weren't going well, where the student should focus, in their remaining college years.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, very funny all of you. Glad your haveing a
> great time. That was not me posting earlier just
> so you know. I can see that most of you are
> probabaly angry with me because I have more then
> you have. So, jealousy rearing its ugly little
> head. EH? And to think that you don't want your
> kids at South Lakes because of all the kids on
> free lunch. So make up your minds. What is your
> problem here, the kids on free lunch or privlegded
> kids, more privledged then your kids. I think this
> is something that needs to taken care of.
> And for Quantom, are you happy with this
> paragraph that you and so many of others like you
> seem to love, and I won't mention a certain name
> who seems to be obsessed with paragraphs. These
> are details that are not worh my time and
> shouldn't be interesting to you. I would never
> write like a newspaper reporter since that would
> be lowering my standards, just so you know. Hard
> to think you would suggest that but I shouldn't be
> surprised.

Not my post... I would never assume you have less then myself. I know for a fact there are to many wealthy people in Fairfax to ever assume something of the sort. Most of you I assume live in Madison, Lagnley, Fox Mill and have the same amount of money if not large amounts more then myself. This shouldn't be an economic war though, this should be about the fact that it involves students is all.

Observer Wrote:

> Glasgow didn't get an addition, they have a new
> building after many years (more than a decade) of
> overcrowding and modulars/trailers.

http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/minutes/20060126R.pdf

Old Glasgow had 1630 and new Glasgow 1500. There was discussion about the new building being 1250 [smaller square footage] based on the numbers enrolled, projected, and open space at nearby middle schools [Holmes which has a large island with many students] and Poe [boundary like a fat upside down Y on the Island]. On the 09-13 proposed CIP Poe is -4 with zero trailers while in yet another FCPS mystery Holmes is 181 under cap with 1 trailer. Why no boundary process on that Island and anything to have no trailers and fully use the new Glasgow for 2008-09?

Glasgow is projected with the cap reduction for the new building to be over 400 under through 2012. Not a time to be buying trailers or spending money on moving any trailers to Poe and Holmes.

Neen Wrote:
> Perhaps the school board will vote to have both
> programs at South Lakes and give them the money to
> do so, for a few years, in an attempt to appease
> those who are being forced into South Lakes. They
> have to give them something. Of course that won't
> last, eventually SL will have to choose one
> program over another. And of course it won't be a
> real AP program for many years because teachers
> have to agree to training for AP and they have to
> find math teachers qualified to teach AP calculus
> BC and beyond. But with the extra money being
> dumped into South Lakes, they might attract
> teachers with their small class sizes that will
> result. South Lakes has promised two AP classes
> for next year, human geography and something else,
> as yet the staff has not decided what they will
> offer.

After many of the highest ability students are selected to attend Jefferson, how many students do you think there are left in a "typical 2,000 student FCPS high school" to support, for example, offering BOTH both AP Physics and IB HL Physics?

As has been said over and over, in an IB school the IB Diploma Candidates MUST be allowed to take the classes they need for their IB Diploma - so guess which advanced physics course is dropped? or advanced biology? or advanced art?

If South Lakes students want a full AP curriculum, they should pupil-place to an AP school. If other northwest County students want to go for the full IB Diploma, they should pupil-place into South Lakes.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 5. You have no clue of what the IB program is
> really like! Before you assume it's a cake walk
> stop by those classes at South Lakes.

I haven't gotten the impression that IB is a cake walk from this thread. Conversely, I've gotten the impression that it's probably harder given the two year commitment for HL courses not to mention community service if you want the diploma. I've also gotten the impression that it is less flexible and also less widely accepted than AP and has a higher infrastructure cost. If that's not true, feel free to fill us in on what we don't know.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer Wrote:
> > IMHO Woodson was overcrowded and South Lakes
> > undercrowded. SL's got a new 2 story art wing
> and
> > I think FCPS should not have expanded. What
> are
> > purposes of the 5 Woodson additions? Any FCPS
> > central administrative functions? I also do
> not
> > believe Langley and Glasgow should have gotten
> > additions.
>
> Woodson should just have had a whole new building
> constructed, using the same reasons as the new
> Glasgow: Faster, cheaper, and end up with a better
> product.
>
> According to the CIP, Woodson is not getting more
> student capacity. Over the years Woodson has
> received a couple other additions, including the
> largest Special Ed center in the County, but no
> core space was added so the gyms, locker rooms,
> library, etc. were inadequate.
>
> To answer your questions:
>
> 1) The five additions are a science wing (with
> space for some some other functions so the library
> can expand), performing arts rooms, school office
> staff, a weight room-driver's ed classroom
> addition, and a cheer-gymnastics-dance gym.
>
> 2) The staff addition is for school staff, like
> making room for more ESOL assistants. However, the
> Department of Information Technology continues to
> occupy an entire wing plus a lot of fenced-off
> parking. This space, among other things, is used
> to store spare parts for fire alarms for the
> entire school system. It would appear these
> central maintenance and supply functions should be
> moved out of the high school which, as you point
> out, is over-capacity.
>
> The Woodson community has been begging for years
> for a larger main gym. If you have attended any of
> their basketball games you can see why! Instead
> they are getting some locker room space and other
> gym facilities that are inadequate. Example: The
> new cheer-gymnastics-dance gym does not include
> enough space for a "cheer floor". STEPHANIE - CAN
> YOU EXPLAIN to us mere parents what that means?

Gladly. Cheer floors are huge. We have our own gymnastics room at South Lakes [that has not been renovated yet] we share with dance and cheer and the cheer floor still has to be pulled out everyday to the main gym. Those things are huge and will simply not fit in the gymnastics room!

Neen Wrote:...
> How many boys get the IB diploma, compared with
> girls? I would be it is very heavily girls. It
> seems most valedictorians are girls. It would
> seem our schools are more user friendly toward
> girls.

You're right. Anyone remember Bob Frye? as a school board member he brought up this issue as well as load electives and cost. There is no reason students can't have intensive writing in AP. FCPS is so picture-cut-paste projects rather than writing it resembles a middle age woman scrapbooking club.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mike Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > My point is not every kid has the time to do
> > these
> > > community service and other extra activity to
> > earn
> > > a IB diploma. Take for example a student who
> is
> > in
> > > a sport that requires about 18 hrs of
> training
> > per
> > > week. It is physically not possible to do
> > anything
> > > other than train for the sport and do his/her
> > > studies.
> >
> > It is completely possible to do a sport that
> takes
> > up 18 hours a week and get the IB diploma.
> Most
> > of the kids I know that are doing the diploma
> are
> > in a school sport.
>
> How many of those over achievers are boys who are
> doing football, baseball, or basketball?
>
> How many boys get the IB diploma, compared with
> girls? I would be it is very heavily girls. It
> seems most valedictorians are girls. It would
> seem our schools are more user friendly toward
> girls.

Are you kidding me? I have a friend in physics, who I won't name names, but has graduated an all IB student and is already signed to a college for baseball. He is nearly a 4.0 student and is class president. He plays football and baseball. Trust me it can definitly be done.
I have another friend in another one of my classes who plays football and lacrosse and is easily one of the best lacrosse players I've ever seen. He keeps about a 3.8 in all IB as well, and is on track for the IB diploma and is also one of the SGA officers. He is currently looking into playing sports in college as well.
Don't doubt me when I say this but we truly do have some very gifted students at South Lakes.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
>
> > Glasgow didn't get an addition, they have a new
> > building after many years (more than a decade)
> of
> > overcrowding and modulars/trailers.
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/minutes/20060126R.pdf
>
> Old Glasgow had 1630 and new Glasgow 1500. There
> was discussion about the new building being 1250
> based on the numbers enrolled, projected, and open
> space at nearby middle schools and Poe . On the
> 09-13 proposed CIP Poe is -4 with zero trailers
> while in yet another FCPS mystery Holmes is 181
> under cap with 1 trailer. Why no boundary
> process on that Island and anything to have no
> trailers and fully use the new Glasgow for
> 2008-09?
>
> Glasgow is projected with the cap reduction for
> the new building to be over 400 under through
> 2012. Not a time to be buying trailers or
> spending money on moving any trailers to Poe and
> Holmes.


A boundary process took place about a decade ago, which I mentioned earlier. At that time a number of Glen Forest ES students ended up going to Parklawn ES, which just had a renovation..only to then become overcrowded as soon as the renovation was completed due to the new boundaries. This aided in the overcrowding at Glasgow (which was already overcrowded), which had 5 lunches due to so many students, some students eating lunch as early as 10 a.m. and others not until shortly before buses drove students home.

Not sure where you got your number of 1630, but yes after much debate the new building can hold 1500. The students move into the new building on the 29th of Jan.

IB/AP Ignoramus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 5. You have no clue of what the IB program is
> > really like! Before you assume it's a cake walk
> > stop by those classes at South Lakes.
>
> I haven't gotten the impression that IB is a cake
> walk from this thread. Conversely, I've gotten
> the impression that it's probably harder given the
> two year commitment for HL courses not to mention
> community service if you want the diploma. I've
> also gotten the impression that it is less
> flexible and also less widely accepted than AP and
> has a higher infrastructure cost. If that's not
> true, feel free to fill us in on what we don't
> know.

When going for the IB diploma you must know what you're getting yourself into. I will not lie, it is extremely challenging and stressful at times, but when I look back upon what I've done so far with the IB classes I've taken I've found them very beneficial.

1. The diploma is very flexible, regardless of what you may think. Most teachers understand the course load for students taking all IB as multiple students take two IB electives, sciences, histories, etc. Teachers are very supportive throughout the diploma years and almost always stay after to help students who are struggling. I've found that most essays and tests for my IB classes are assigned weeks in advance to help students better prepare themselves. Each student also has an IB coordinator and extended essay supervisor. The extended essay is set out over the time span of about a year and a half, giving students more then enough time to prepare the essay. Coordinators help IB canidates by also keeping up with e-mail chains, posting service hour oppurtunities, and setting up lunch meetings. In lunch meetings students are told about a week ahead of time to bring their lunch and attend an IB lunch meeting in which you talk with the coordinator and other IB diploma canidates to help stay on track. They are very leniant with lunches and meetings as I have found sometimes classes interfere. All one must simply do is e-mail or talk to the coordinator beforehand to recieve the information they will be missing. They're are a wide range of choices in which a student is able to write their essay on, and the time given with the extended essay supervisor is always used to help prepare the student and better the essay.

2. As a junior I have already started visiting colleges, mainly in North and South Carolina so far. I have asked colleges regarding the IB vrs AP diploma and nearly all have responded the same. They understand a student doesn't always choose the highschool in which they attend, and has no choice on which program their school offers. Higher achieving univirsites and colleges often do expect a large number of IB certficates if not the IB diploma itself in order to achieve enrollment. However, most colleges simply choose to look at wether or not students seem to have challenged themselves throughout their highschool career. Majority of colleges I have visited have even stated they do not unweight grades that have been given the extra .5 for the IB credit.

3. I play sports at school and usually take part in about 20 hours of extracurrilar activities each week (including cheer and gymnastics). I have found throughout the IB diploma that rarely do my academics ever interfere with my athletic schedule. TOK classes take place later on monday and wednesday nights in which athletics do not take place, and coaches are very leniant at school with the academic schedule of students.

I hope this might have helped a little...

Whites in SL

1997 - 966
2001 - 967

What happened to white folks for those five years? Maybe Clinton was in office had something to do with it.

What I was point out with this chart is the fairy tale told by some here that without RD SL pyramid currently has enough children to support the school. That's simply not the case. The population has been around 1600 for more than 10 years. The boundary change is long overdue.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reston Parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > Between 1987 and 1997 there have been steady
> > > decline of student population. I think one of
> > the
> > > obvious reasons is the aging of Reston
> > > neighborhoods.
> > >
> > > Enrollment information for South Lakes High
> > > Year Caucasian Afr Am.Hispanic Asian
> > > Am.Indian Total
> > > 1987 0 0 0 0 0 2241
> > > 1989 0 0 0 0 0 2113
> > > 1990 0 0 0 0 0 1969
> > > 1991 0 0 0 0 0 1970
> > > 1992 0 0 0 0 0 1979
> > > 1993 1216 313 161 149 2 1841
> > > 1994 1152 351 192 157 2 1854
> > > 1995 1031 340 202 164 3 1740
> > > 1996 1031 340 202 164 3 1740
> > > 1997 966 356 187 164 3 1676
> > > 1998 981 326 189 173 3 1672
> > > 1999 941 328 203 180 5 1657
> > > 2000 952 342 206 171 3 1670
> > > 2001 967 321 226 180 2 1696
> > > 2002 845 314 270 186 2 1655
> > > 2003 845 314 270 186 2 1655
> > > 2004 825 336 263 184 3 1657
> > > 2005 741 350 256 187 3 1602
> > > 2006 716 318 254 175 4 1546
> >
> > The elephant in this entire room is hiding in
> > plain sight in column 2.
>
> A decline of 500 White students over 13 years?
> Yes, that is exactly the problem. Blacks are very
> consistent, between 313 and 356. Asians are
> consistent too, always between 149 and 175.
> Hispanics have increased, but by fewer than 100.
> The problem is Whites steadily opting out.
> Perhaps only whites age in Reston? :)

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stephanie Wrote:
> > > ... even you Forum Reader or
> > > Quantum, I get you too mixed up, whatever.
> > Anyway
> > > I think you get my point.
> >
> > ---
> > Stephanie,
> > As I wrote earlier, I purposely avoid
> responding
> > to your comments because I do not want to
> appear
> > to be picking on a child. However, this time
> you
> > specifically mention me.
> >
> > No, I have no idea what your point is. Could
> you
> > rephrase it using clear, concise,
> newspaper-style
> > paragraphs?
>
> Better yet, I'll bullet them.
>
> 1. You don't know what you're talking about when
> it comes to my school, so please don't use false
> rumors to scare others into opposing the
> redistricting.

I have seen very litlle in the way of "False Rumors" pertaining to South Lakes recently. I believe that most who are opposed to the RD are researching factual information on public records, and are trying to determine answers to many unanswered questions about "WHY" South Lakes is underenrolled, when other schools in the area area are still seeing demand. Someone posted earlier that South lakes was underenrolled due to an aging population in Reston, but what is not clear is why enrollments for almost all minorities as well as African American students have remained stable of increased, while over 500 Caucasian Students have left the School over the last 10 years or so. Are only the Caucasian families aging? What are your thoughts on why demographics are changing in South Lakes?
>
> 2. Don't put others down simply because they
> bought a house in another area. The fact of the
> matter is; houses in Reston are usually more
> expensive than in Herndon. I can't help this. I'm
> sorry that they won't give you a Reston address
> when the redistricting occurs, but again, nothing
> is definite when you buy your house. I hope you
> had the common sense to know this.

I am sorry Stephanie, but most who are opposed to the RD reside in Oak Hill, not Herndon. As far as value of the homes, I believe that the average home in Oak Hill is priced higher than in Reston. (at least the Reston homes that actually send their children to South lakes) Here are links for you to check out interesting stats about both Reston and Oak Hill.

[www.bestplaces.net]

[www.bestplaces.net]

[www.bestplaces.net]

>
> 3. Most of the people use the whole "I don't like
> the IB system" as the reason they don't want to
> redistrict when they've in fact lived her more
> then seven years. The IB system came into South
> Lakes in 2001 I believe, so if you've lived here
> longer then that it's not a valid excuse to say 'I
> bought my house at Oakton so they would go AP.

This does not appear to be a reasonable statement from You. I am sure that many people check out the published stats on one school Vs another, and purchase a home based on those merits. For sure, there are people who chose not to live in Reston, simply because they did not want to be a part of the Reston Planned Community Concept.'
>
> 4. Most of you on this forum either A) don't have
> children or won't be affected by this redistricing
> or B) have children who won't be erolled in
> highschool for another ten years. Sorry if this
> fact doesn't apply to you, but many on the forum I
> notice do apply. If you don't know what South
> Lakes is like now, then I think it's a pretty safe
> bet to say you can't predict the future.

You have no factual proof of to make this statement about who does or does not have children. For you to make a statement like this would be the equivelent of me saying " why do the current Juniors and Seniors enrolled in South lakes care about this RD, since the few freshman that get moved into your school next year are not going to impact the quality or the quantity of the programs that you want or need."
>
> 5. You have no clue of what the IB program is
> really like! Before you assume it's a cake walk
> stop by those classes at South Lakes. I garuntee
> you that most of you couldn't begin to understand
> what goes on in some of those higher level
> physics, math, and biology classes. The IB program
> is not simply used to attain the IB program, it's
> for students looking to challenge themself beyond
> the norm of highschool in any course. If a student
> chooses to apply themself beyond the norm in every
> course so be it! We reward these students who
> apply themself beyond the norm in every course,
> write their extended essays, and complete the
> community service required with an IB Diploma,
> however no IB Diploma is needed to graduate.
> Anyone can earn IB certificates .

I do not believe that any has questioned how difficult the IB Diploma is to obtain. In fact, many of us feel that it is "too rigorous" for our children, who are bright, but also enjoy a social life and participate in other activities outside of academics.

Here is a link to see where and why children are pupil placing into and out of the High Scools in the County. You will notice that many pupil place out of there base schools to persue an AP based curriculum, just as there are those that Pupil place into the IB schools. (although not as many appear to want to be placed in SL compared to Stuart.

[www.bestplaces.net]

[www.bestplaces.net]

[www.bestplaces.net]

>
> And a bunch of other reasons, but these are the
> main five I think needed to come out!

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet


I FORGOT THE LINK TO THE TRANSFERS

"Whites in SL

1997 - 966
2001 - 967

What happened to white folks for those five years? Maybe Clinton was in office had something to do with it."

The white population started going down shortly after Realista came in, and just after IB started. Hmm.

"What I was point out with this chart is the fairy tale told by some here that without RD SL pyramid currently has enough children to support the school. That's simply not the case. The population has been around 1600 for more than 10 years. The boundary change is long overdue."

It was close to 1700 for most of that time. That's the same size as lots of other schools in the county. Mclean, Mt Vernon, Edison are all around that size. Hayfield, Stuart, Marshall, Falls Church are smaller. There are 400 unused high school slots in the county, they don't redistrict to "fill" each school, fortunately.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Whites in SL
>
> 1997 - 966
> 2001 - 967 ...
There are 400 unused
> high school slots in the county, they don't
> redistrict to "fill" each school, fortunately.

There are enough unused slots to equal another high school-far more than 400. Facilities used to put nice summaries on CIP's including adding up all the neighbors. Guess people who wanted additions like at Langley didn't want that to be so evident.

Sorry, that should have said 4000 unused slots, equivalent to two high schools.

I've seen posts speculating about what AP class besides Human Geography would be offered at South Lakes this fall. The staffer (Dr. Goodman, I believe) who was taking questions from the school board during the work session on the boundary change (work session 51.03 on January 14) said that South Lakes will offer AP Human Geography and AP Government to 10th, 11th, and 12th graders this fall.

That particular Q&A comes up about 29 minutes and 20 seconds into the mp3 file posted on the BoardDocs web site: http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/d62d9cb847ef1cbd87257328006795e4/aa3132e3631e271a8525733e0069141f/$FILE/51.03%20Prelim%20Boundaries%20and%2053.03%20Technology.MP3

Here is some data about classes offered at SLHS. I called South Lakes and they showed me where on their web site they list the classes they typically offer. This is not the huge FCPS course catalog common between schools. There is a listing of which teachers teach these courses, so I have reason to believe its close to accurate. Some classes may not be offered in a particular year for various reasons, so its OK not to get too excited if e.g. SLHS didn't offer XYZ class this year, since other schools might also not offer certain classes either.

I found the equivalent information at Oakton and cross referenced the two lists. I picked Oakton since its fairly large, did well in the challenge index, and its the school my kids go to. Others can do this with other schools. The files with names of courses are attached here.

It is hard to completely cross reference the classes, since courses have dissimilar names and I'm not that familiar with what the IB classes cover, however this is what I came up with in a couple of hours research. In general, I matched an honors course with IB SL, and AP with IB HL. History and Art (including performing arts) were harder to correlate in detail, so I used broader classes for those. I didn't look at PE, special ed or ESOL.

Courses offered at South Lakes, but that don't seem to have an equivalent at Oakton...(a longer list that I expected..)

Transitional English
Journalism 3
Journalism 4
Introduction to Algebra
Concepts Science
Chemical Technology
Honors Government
Political Science
Ceramics 1 and 2
IB photography
IB Art I/2
Auto Technology 1,2,3
Programming
IT Fundamentals
Advanced Information Systems
Education for Employment 1,2
Introduction to Marketing
Advanced Sports and Entertainment marketing
Film Studies
IB Theater Arts

Courses offered at Oakton, but no obvious counterpart at South Lakes (exemplary of the bigger school advantage):

Literary Magazine
Photojournalism 1,2
Creative Writing
Speech
Senior Seminar in Social Studies
Linear Algebra
Multivariable Calculus
Human Anatomy and Physiology
AP environmental science
AP Physics
Philosophy
Economics
Comparative Religion
At least one AP History/Government-type class
Japanese 1-5/AP
Extra year of most non-AP languages
3D Art
Animation
AP Art history
Fitness and Food
Gourmet Foods
Intro to Interior and Fashion Design
International Hospitality
Finance
Fashion
Advanced Marketing
Four kinds of engineering drawing
Introduction to Engineering
Research and Development Engineering
Piano Lab
Guitar

Now compare these lists with what's in common at the two schools:
English 9
English 10
English 11
English 12
Honors english
AP /IB English
Journalism 1,2
Algebra 1
Algebra 2
Geometry
Honors versions of above
Trigonometry and Analysis
Probability and Statistucs
Discrete Math
Computer Science
AP/IB Calculus
AP/IB Computer Science
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Honors Biology
Honors Chemistry
Honors Physics
Active Physics
Geosystems
AP/IB Biology
AP/IB Chemistry
World History / Geography 9
World History / Geography 10
US & Virginia History 11
US & Virginia Government 12
Honors History
AP/ IB History
Psychology
Sociology
ASL 1,2,3
French 1,2,3,4, AP/IB
German 1,2,3, AP/IB
Latin 1,2,3,4
Spanish 1,2,3,4, AP/IB
Accounting
Business Law
Business Management
Information Systems
Desktop Multimedia Presentations
Webpage Development
Business Internships
Marketing
Sports and Entertainment Marketing
Art 1,2,3,4
Photography 1,2
Computer Graphics 1,2
Several types of Band
Several types of Orchestra
Several types of Choir
AP/IB Music Theory
Theater Arts 1,2,3,4
Tech Theater 1,2

Bottom Line, the longest list of courses are the required and elective courses found at both schools. Larger schools have more courses available, but smaller schools can and do offer courses not found at larger schools. Many of the courses unique to larger schools address very small niches of the student population, e.g. those interested in comparative religions, international hospitality or Japanese.
Attachments:

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is some data about classes offered at SLHS.
> I called South Lakes and they showed me where on
> their web site they list the classes they
> typically offer. This is not the huge FCPS course
> catalog common between schools. There is a listing
> of which teachers teach these courses, so I have
> reason to believe its close to accurate. Some
> classes may not be offered in a particular year
> for various reasons, so its OK not to get too
> excited if e.g. SLHS didn't offer XYZ class this
> year, since other schools might also not offer
> certain classes either.
>
> I found the equivalent information at Oakton and
> cross referenced the two lists. I picked Oakton
> since its fairly large, did well in the challenge
> index, and its the school my kids go to. Others
> can do this with other schools. The files with
> names of courses are attached here.
>
> It is hard to completely cross reference the
> classes, since courses have dissimilar names and
> I'm not that familiar with what the IB classes
> cover, however this is what I came up with in a
> couple of hours research. In general, I matched an
> honors course with IB SL, and AP with IB HL.
> History and Art (including performing arts) were
> harder to correlate in detail, so I used broader
> classes for those. I didn't look at PE, special
> ed or ESOL.
>
> Courses offered at South Lakes, but that don't
> seem to have an equivalent at Oakton...(a longer
> list that I expected..)
>
> Transitional English
> Journalism 3
> Journalism 4
> Introduction to Algebra
> Concepts Science
> Chemical Technology
> Honors Government
> Political Science
> Ceramics 1 and 2
> IB photography
> IB Art I/2
> Auto Technology 1,2,3
> Programming
> IT Fundamentals
> Advanced Information Systems
> Education for Employment 1,2
> Introduction to Marketing
> Advanced Sports and Entertainment marketing
> Film Studies
> IB Theater Arts
>
> Courses offered at Oakton, but no obvious
> counterpart at South Lakes (exemplary of the
> bigger school advantage):
>
> Literary Magazine
> Photojournalism 1,2
> Creative Writing
> Speech
> Senior Seminar in Social Studies
> Linear Algebra
> Multivariable Calculus
> Human Anatomy and Physiology
> AP environmental science
> AP Physics
> Philosophy
> Economics
> Comparative Religion
> At least one AP History/Government-type class
> Japanese 1-5/AP
> Extra year of most non-AP languages
> 3D Art
> Animation
> AP Art history
> Fitness and Food
> Gourmet Foods
> Intro to Interior and Fashion Design
> International Hospitality
> Finance
> Fashion
> Advanced Marketing
> Four kinds of engineering drawing
> Introduction to Engineering
> Research and Development Engineering
> Piano Lab
> Guitar
>
> Now compare these lists with what's in common at
> the two schools:
> English 9
> English 10
> English 11
> English 12
> Honors english
> AP /IB English
> Journalism 1,2
> Algebra 1
> Algebra 2
> Geometry
> Honors versions of above
> Trigonometry and Analysis
> Probability and Statistucs
> Discrete Math
> Computer Science
> AP/IB Calculus
> AP/IB Computer Science
> Biology
> Chemistry
> Physics
> Honors Biology
> Honors Chemistry
> Honors Physics
> Active Physics
> Geosystems
> AP/IB Biology
> AP/IB Chemistry
> World History / Geography 9
> World History / Geography 10
> US & Virginia History 11
> US & Virginia Government 12
> Honors History
> AP/ IB History
> Psychology
> Sociology
> ASL 1,2,3
> French 1,2,3,4, AP/IB
> German 1,2,3, AP/IB
> Latin 1,2,3,4
> Spanish 1,2,3,4, AP/IB
> Accounting
> Business Law
> Business Management
> Information Systems
> Desktop Multimedia Presentations
> Webpage Development
> Business Internships
> Marketing
> Sports and Entertainment Marketing
> Art 1,2,3,4
> Photography 1,2
> Computer Graphics 1,2
> Several types of Band
> Several types of Orchestra
> Several types of Choir
> AP/IB Music Theory
> Theater Arts 1,2,3,4
> Tech Theater 1,2
>
> Bottom Line, the longest list of courses are the
> required and elective courses found at both
> schools. Larger schools have more courses
> available, but smaller schools can and do offer
> courses not found at larger schools. Many of the
> courses unique to larger schools address very
> small niches of the student population, e.g. those
> interested in comparative religions, international
> hospitality or Japanese.


Yes! Exactly, I did review the SL curriculum and did a post asking if anybody could tell me why it was necessary to add more kids in order to have the curriculum expanded--when SL has all the necessary core courses, electives and the IB to offer diplomas given at their size. I would think it would be the same for Stuart except Stuart is not screaming for more kids? I think in order for a high school whether it is large or small, it takes a whole village of teachers/students/parents/staff to work together to help the students achieve and make the high school a success.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here is some data about classes offered at SLHS.
>
> > I called South Lakes and they showed me where
> on
> > their web site they list the classes they
> > typically offer. This is not the huge FCPS
> course
> > catalog common between schools. There is a
> listing
> > of which teachers teach these courses, so I
> have
> > reason to believe its close to accurate. Some
> > classes may not be offered in a particular year
> > for various reasons, so its OK not to get too
> > excited if e.g. SLHS didn't offer XYZ class
> this
> > year, since other schools might also not offer
> > certain classes either.
> >
> > I found the equivalent information at Oakton
> and
> > cross referenced the two lists. I picked
> Oakton
> > since its fairly large, did well in the
> challenge
> > index, and its the school my kids go to. Others
> > can do this with other schools. The files
> with
> > names of courses are attached here.
> >
> > It is hard to completely cross reference the
> > classes, since courses have dissimilar names
> and
> > I'm not that familiar with what the IB classes
> > cover, however this is what I came up with in a
> > couple of hours research. In general, I matched
> an
> > honors course with IB SL, and AP with IB HL.
> > History and Art (including performing arts)
> were
> > harder to correlate in detail, so I used
> broader
> > classes for those. I didn't look at PE,
> special
> > ed or ESOL.
> >
> > Courses offered at South Lakes, but that don't
> > seem to have an equivalent at Oakton...(a
> longer
> > list that I expected..)
> >
> > Transitional English
> > Journalism 3
> > Journalism 4
> > Introduction to Algebra
> > Concepts Science
> > Chemical Technology
> > Honors Government
> > Political Science
> > Ceramics 1 and 2
> > IB photography
> > IB Art I/2
> > Auto Technology 1,2,3
> > Programming
> > IT Fundamentals
> > Advanced Information Systems
> > Education for Employment 1,2
> > Introduction to Marketing
> > Advanced Sports and Entertainment marketing
> > Film Studies
> > IB Theater Arts
> >
> > Courses offered at Oakton, but no obvious
> > counterpart at South Lakes (exemplary of the
> > bigger school advantage):
> >
> > Literary Magazine
> > Photojournalism 1,2
> > Creative Writing
> > Speech
> > Senior Seminar in Social Studies
> > Linear Algebra
> > Multivariable Calculus
> > Human Anatomy and Physiology
> > AP environmental science
> > AP Physics
> > Philosophy
> > Economics
> > Comparative Religion
> > At least one AP History/Government-type class
> > Japanese 1-5/AP
> > Extra year of most non-AP languages
> > 3D Art
> > Animation
> > AP Art history
> > Fitness and Food
> > Gourmet Foods
> > Intro to Interior and Fashion Design
> > International Hospitality
> > Finance
> > Fashion
> > Advanced Marketing
> > Four kinds of engineering drawing
> > Introduction to Engineering
> > Research and Development Engineering
> > Piano Lab
> > Guitar
> >
> > Now compare these lists with what's in common
> at
> > the two schools:
> > English 9
> > English 10
> > English 11
> > English 12
> > Honors english
> > AP /IB English
> > Journalism 1,2
> > Algebra 1
> > Algebra 2
> > Geometry
> > Honors versions of above
> > Trigonometry and Analysis
> > Probability and Statistucs
> > Discrete Math
> > Computer Science
> > AP/IB Calculus
> > AP/IB Computer Science
> > Biology
> > Chemistry
> > Physics
> > Honors Biology
> > Honors Chemistry
> > Honors Physics
> > Active Physics
> > Geosystems
> > AP/IB Biology
> > AP/IB Chemistry
> > World History / Geography 9
> > World History / Geography 10
> > US & Virginia History 11
> > US & Virginia Government 12
> > Honors History
> > AP/ IB History
> > Psychology
> > Sociology
> > ASL 1,2,3
> > French 1,2,3,4, AP/IB
> > German 1,2,3, AP/IB
> > Latin 1,2,3,4
> > Spanish 1,2,3,4, AP/IB
> > Accounting
> > Business Law
> > Business Management
> > Information Systems
> > Desktop Multimedia Presentations
> > Webpage Development
> > Business Internships
> > Marketing
> > Sports and Entertainment Marketing
> > Art 1,2,3,4
> > Photography 1,2
> > Computer Graphics 1,2
> > Several types of Band
> > Several types of Orchestra
> > Several types of Choir
> > AP/IB Music Theory
> > Theater Arts 1,2,3,4
> > Tech Theater 1,2
> >
> > Bottom Line, the longest list of courses are
> the
> > required and elective courses found at both
> > schools. Larger schools have more courses
> > available, but smaller schools can and do offer
> > courses not found at larger schools. Many of
> the
> > courses unique to larger schools address very
> > small niches of the student population, e.g.
> those
> > interested in comparative religions,
> international
> > hospitality or Japanese.
>
>
> Yes! Exactly, I did review the SL curriculum and
> did a post asking if anybody could tell me why it
> was necessary to add more kids in order to have
> the curriculum expanded--when SL has all the
> necessary core courses, electives and the IB to
> offer diplomas given at their size. I would think
> it would be the same for Stuart except Stuart is
> not screaming for more kids? I think in order for
> a high school whether it is large or small, it
> takes a whole village of
> teachers/students/parents/staff to work together
> to help the students achieve and make the high
> school a success.


My conclusion - The differences above don't justify a need for redistricting. Thanks for the research.

Sephanie wrote:

"Are you kidding me? I have a friend in physics, who I won't name names, but has graduated an all IB student and is already signed to a college for baseball. He is nearly a 4.0 student and is class president. He plays football and baseball. Trust me it can definitly be done.
I have another friend in another one of my classes who plays football and lacrosse and is easily one of the best lacrosse players I've ever seen. He keeps about a 3.8 in all IB as well, and is on track for the IB diploma and is also one of the SGA officers. He is currently looking into playing sports in college as well.
Don't doubt me when I say this but we truly do have some very gifted students
at South Lakes."
______________________________

Stephanie,

We don't doubt you.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is some data about classes offered at SLHS.
> I called South Lakes and they showed me where on
> their web site they list the classes they
> typically offer...

...Bottom Line, the longest list of courses are the
> required and elective courses found at both
> schools. Larger schools have more courses
> available, but smaller schools can and do offer
> courses not found at larger schools. Many of the
> courses unique to larger schools address very
> small niches of the student population, e.g. those
> interested in comparative religions, international
> hospitality or Japanese.

Excellent research, Oakton Parent, thank you much. I have a question, though. Did the staff at South Lakes mention that some of those listed courses may not be taught during every school year? I don't know that just because a course is listed that it means it is actually taught each year.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I on curriculum matters could confirm?

Thanks.

Re: your question:

"Excellent research, Oakton Parent, thank you much. I have a question, though. Did the staff at South Lakes mention that some of those listed courses may not be taught during every school year? I don't know that just because a course is listed that it means it is actually taught each year.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I on curriculum matters could confirm?

Thanks."

I asked the person in the counseling office with the position of "registrar" for this information, and she pointed me to this list. I asked if this was the list of classes that were in fact taught, and she said yes. She wasn't under oath and I'm sure was not intending this list to be 100% accurate, but the intent of my question and her answer was clear.

Observer Wrote:

> I asked earlier if your initials are L.E. I
> believe you were part, perhaps still are, part of
> the GT advisory committee, and you were very
> vocally oppossed to TJ changing their admissions
> policy. Correct?
>
> If you are so knowledgeable of what should occur
> in schools/school boards/admissions
> policies/redistictring, and so oppossed to certain
> members on the school board, why don't you take
> all that knowledge and energy, and run for a
> school board spot?


Yes, I am opposed to affirmative action, everywhere. It hasn't helped blacks and discriminates against everyone else, most particularly another minority group, Asians. With affirmative action at TJ, it is Asians who would be hurt the most since they are the most 'over represented'. I will not advocate for replacing one minority group with another minority group at any public school. I support merit based admissions, without regard to race.

My initials are not LE. Perhaps you would like to share you initials with us, although I am not sure that many would care. Nor do I understand why you would care. Perhaps you could share that with us also.

I'm a conservative who believes in real education. Surely you don't think someone like me could win a seat on the school board. Do you?

Oakton Parent Wrote:
> Here is some data about classes offered at SLHS. ...

> I found the equivalent information at Oakton and
> cross referenced the two lists. ...

Thanks, OP.
This is exactly the sort of date we need to hold a rational discussion.

What exactly does the South Lakes community seek, and why?

After we know that, we can offer our suggestions.

observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If
> > only 15 students signed up for a class in
> another
> > school that class would be canceled.
> >
> >
>
> That is not true. Classes at other schools are
> also often around 15 students, depending on the
> course. They might cancel for less than 10, but
> it is usually when only a few sign up that they
> actually cancel. They know there will be glitches
> in many schedules, and they can perhaps use a
> class with lower numbers to place students whose
> schedules have holes or problems into the class.
>
> I gather you are trying to show the advantages of
> being at South Lakes, and make it sound as if
> other schools have huge classes all the time, but
> it is erroneous to imply that only in South Lakes
> would a class not be cancelled with 15 students in
> it.

You are correct. I should have said that the class would have been canceled at an AP school. I forgot that you are at an IB school where classes are often quite small to comply with program requirements.

>>>Not sure where you got your number of 1630, but yes after much debate the new building can hold 1500. The students move into the new building on the 29th of Jan.<<<

How many students are currently enrolled at Glasgow? Isn't it around 1,000 students? Is there redistricting planned for that area? Or do they plan something else for the excess space?

>>>This is from Jim Raney's website. "As an “at large” member of the school board, my district would comprise the entirety of Fairfax County. I would be inclined to give considerable deference to the judgments of the magisterial district member(s) of the school board whose schools would be affected by proposed boundary changes."<<<<

That's how it works. The SB member who represents the district gets to decide boundary changes. At large members, and all other members, generally follow this unofficial policy. They don't mess around in each other's districts, just as Congressman wouldn't try to run things in the district of another Congressman. Stu decides redistricting in his district.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you look at the map showing the School zones,
> you will notice some interesting "Islands". I feel
> bad for the folks in the Madison "Island", as it
> appears that they are the "token" community area
> being pulled into South Lakes, in order for the
> FCPS Staff to show the citizens that they are
> fulfilling one of the 8 criteria, which is the
> "elimination of Islands".
>
> What is interesting, is the new island being
> created if McNair Elementary is left a Westfield.
> In addition, it almost looks like part of
> Crossfield is an Island that feeds to Oakton.
>
> Woodson, McLean and Langley both have interesting
> "Islands" as well.
>
> http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/maps/images/maps/hand
> outs/pdf07/HighSchoolAttendanceAreas.pdf

Some of these high school districts are ridiculous! How many islands does McLean have? 3? 4?

Hayfield has the strangest boundary, although Marshall and Mclean are also strange.

The map makes it very apparent why some school board members believe that we need a county wide redistricting.

The only reason that eliminating islands was one of the criteria was so that they had an excuse to grab Madison Island kids, white, and high achieving.

Not always true. My FCPS kid's AP Stats class only had 11 kids in it.
> --------------------------------------------------

> You are correct. I should have said that the
> class would have been canceled at an AP school. I
> forgot that you are at an IB school where classes
> are often quite small to comply with program
> requirements.

deleted, duplicate post



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2008 10:48PM by Neen.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> After many of the highest ability students are
> selected to attend Jefferson, how many students do
> you think there are left in a "typical 2,000
> student FCPS high school" to support, for example,
> offering BOTH both AP Physics and IB HL Physics?
>
> As has been said over and over, in an IB school
> the IB Diploma Candidates MUST be allowed to take
> the classes they need for their IB Diploma - so
> guess which advanced physics course is dropped? or
> advanced biology? or advanced art?
>
> If South Lakes students want a full AP curriculum,
> they should pupil-place to an AP school. If other
> northwest County students want to go for the full
> IB Diploma, they should pupil-place into South
> Lakes.

The choice seems to be that if SL wants to remain an IB school, they will remain chronically under enrolled. If enrollment is of more concern than IB, then they need to begin the transition to AP.

Pupil placement is not an option for low income students who have no one available to drive them to school and no car available to drive themselves.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> You're right. Anyone remember Bob Frye? as a
> school board member he brought up this issue as
> well as load electives and cost. There is no
> reason students can't have intensive writing in
> AP. FCPS is so picture-cut-paste projects rather
> than writing it resembles a middle age woman
> scrapbooking club.

Haha........so true. Even at TJ, the artsy projects are ridiculous and very tough for many boys who don't do arts and crafts well. Most parents realize that adult jobs are much more likely to require writing than an art poster to decorate the office.

Cancel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not always true. My FCPS kid's AP Stats class only
> had 11 kids in it.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > You are correct. I should have said that the
> > class would have been canceled at an AP school.
> I
> > forgot that you are at an IB school where
> classes
> > are often quite small to comply with program
> > requirements.

I bet they had more than 11 when they agreed to offer it. Dropouts happen. But your son was lucky to get a class that small, it is a rarity at an AP school.

Stephanie,

I just want to wish you best of luck at your next big gymnastic meet. Isn't it this Thursday? Then, you've got districts on Monday. How exciting. The after school practices must be grueling.

regards,
bird

Observer:

What are your initials? I think I know what they are, but I just need confirmation. BTW, I'm a very important person, so don't waste my time. Just answer my question, now!

Observer:

Never mind about those initials. I have confirmation.

I'm still not sure about your SSN, so would you mind coughing that up. And, please, don't make me ask you twice.

deleted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2008 01:23AM by Neen.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
>
> > I asked earlier if your initials are L.E. I
> > believe you were part, perhaps still are, part
> of
> > the GT advisory committee, and you were very
> > vocally oppossed to TJ changing their
> admissions
> > policy. Correct?
> >
> > If you are so knowledgeable of what should
> occur
> > in schools/school boards/admissions
> > policies/redistictring, and so oppossed to
> certain
> > members on the school board, why don't you take
> > all that knowledge and energy, and run for a
> > school board spot?
>
>
> Yes, I am opposed to affirmative action,
> everywhere. It hasn't helped blacks and
> discriminates against everyone else, most
> particularly another minority group, Asians. With
> affirmative action at TJ, it is Asians who would
> be hurt the most since they are the most 'over
> represented'. I will not advocate for replacing
> one minority group with another minority group at
> any public school. I support merit based
> admissions, without regard to race.
>
> My initials are not LE. Perhaps you would like
> to share you initials with us, although I am not
> sure that many would care. Nor do I understand
> why you would care. Perhaps you could share that
> with us also.
>
> I'm a conservative who believes in real education.
> Surely you don't think someone like me could win
> a seat on the school board. Do you?


Mychelle Brickner and Steve Hunt were two conservative members, and I am sure there are others whose names I can't recall. You do express your views well, and yes I think a conservative could win.

I asked about your initials because someone I know, whose initials are L.E was invovled with the GT advisory committee, and was involved with TJ (as a parent and as an advocate against the new admissions policy), and I thought it would be interesting if you were one and the same. You think quite alike.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> observer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If
> > > only 15 students signed up for a class in
> > another
> > > school that class would be canceled.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > That is not true. Classes at other schools are
> > also often around 15 students, depending on the
> > course. They might cancel for less than 10,
> but
> > it is usually when only a few sign up that they
> > actually cancel. They know there will be
> glitches
> > in many schedules, and they can perhaps use a
> > class with lower numbers to place students
> whose
> > schedules have holes or problems into the
> class.
> >
> > I gather you are trying to show the advantages
> of
> > being at South Lakes, and make it sound as if
> > other schools have huge classes all the time,
> but
> > it is erroneous to imply that only in South
> Lakes
> > would a class not be cancelled with 15 students
> in
> > it.
>
> You are correct. I should have said that the
> class would have been canceled at an AP school. I
> forgot that you are at an IB school where classes
> are often quite small to comply with program
> requirements.



I was discussing AP schools when I said there are classes there too, with 15 students in it that have not been cancelled.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Not sure where you got your number of 1630, but
> yes after much debate the new building can hold
> 1500. The students move into the new building on
> the 29th of Jan.<<<
>
> How many students are currently enrolled at
> Glasgow? Isn't it around 1,000 students? Is
> there redistricting planned for that area? Or do
> they plan something else for the excess space?


I think it is around 1,100 (1,090 at time of profile). I have no idea if a redistricting is planned or not. A previous redistricting worsened existing overcrowding. I believe part of the reason for increasing to 1,500 was to ensure population mistakes weren't made, and I believe the studies done at feeder ES's show that perhaps not next year, but within a few, they will be much closer to capacity, if not there.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer:
>
> Never mind about those initials. I have
> confirmation.
>
> I'm still not sure about your SSN, so would you
> mind coughing that up. And, please, don't make me
> ask you twice.


Charming, I truly thought I knew her, and was simply curious. I know many of you know who everyone is. I don't, and was curious if it was someone I knew. Your earlier post was also silly. Never said I was important, asked twice because I wasn't sure if she had seen the first. If you had a colleague from a committee you were on posting, or thought you did, wouldn't you want to know?

I am wondering-does anybody know who will be there to listen to the speakers during the boundary public hearings on Jan 30/31? Will any of the sb members be there?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> > Here is some data about classes offered at SLHS.
> ...
>
> > I found the equivalent information at Oakton
> and
> > cross referenced the two lists. ...
>
> Thanks, OP.
> This is exactly the sort of date we need to hold a
> rational discussion.
>
> What exactly does the South Lakes community seek,
> and why?
>
> After we know that, we can offer our suggestions.

I noticed on the lists of classes for SL/Oakton that Oakton no longer has its Auto Technology classes, but SL still has theirs - and 3 years of it. Pretty cool.

We can also validate SLgirl917's claim, not that I disbelieved her, that SL is lacking a German 4 course. But I'm still curious to know why many German 3 students would not/could not progress to German IB, vice German 4. I'm only assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that capping off three years of German with a challenging IB class would be a great option. From my limited observation in the past, students of German have always been pretty smart and definitely motivated (not the types who are just merely enduring the minimum foreign language requirement), and so would appreciate an IB class.

Thoughts?

Observer,

I'm going to guess that your initials are C.W., given your extensive knowledge about Glasgow MS and Poe MS. It's been interesting reading about your perceptions about issues and people. See you at the next GTAC meeting.

Observer Wrote:

If you had
> a colleague from a committee you were on posting,
> or thought you did, wouldn't you want to know?

Berdhuis,

Some very smart and motivated students decide not to take the AP version of a foreign language because they have too many other tough classes that year and/or they are less interested in foreign languages than in other subjects. My guess is that some students in IB schools would have similar concerns.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I'm still curious to know why many
> German 3 students would not/could not progress to
> German IB, vice German 4.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer,
>
> I'm going to guess that your initials are C.W.,
> given your extensive knowledge about Glasgow MS
> and Poe MS. It's been interesting reading about
> your perceptions about issues and people. See you
> at the next GTAC meeting.
>
> Observer Wrote:
>
> If you had
> > a colleague from a committee you were on
> posting,
> > or thought you did, wouldn't you want to know?

APorIBMom,

I understand and appreciate your assumption, but I am not C.W Have known her and her husband "G" for sometime, at least 7 years through a variety of education committees/school functions etc.

I am not currently a member of GTAC. I "know" L.E via GTAC from previous years, and via FCAG.

Why would anyone with official access post on FU? They're persons of importance in the fcps scheme of things and this is a venue for the voiceless.

I listened to the MP3 on the boundary work session:
1. Strauss got first dibs on speaking and said there was angst when a county wide was done and changes made in her district were undone. Did not address her odd and costly langley feed-staff had already given it's dance on that addition. I believe Bradsher piped up about NOT having a county-wide. Those 2 are most likely in cahoots to avoid Herndon, South Lakes, and Lake Braddock.

2. Strauss later spoke about Hutchison and Coppermine and wants only one chnage for herndon. Asked about Coppermine feeding to Herndon. [note that Herndon has trailers yet is stated as undercapcity. Her arrangements are driven by Langley and Gibson's North Point while she expects people in areas like Floris/Fox Mill/Mcnair to pay for everything yet be treated like garbage? I don't mean in respect for any move to South Lakes but number of boundary processes, bond referendums, taxes, etc.]

3. Staff had said it's main concern has been westfield and Chantilly and Oakton is in the middle so it's affected. Chantilly keeps academy due to $ invested and they didn't mind the cost of unused addition at Westfield since there could be more growth. [Back in 2002-03 they all knew about South Lakes renovation and extra space so who do we blame? Every board memebr but Thompson and Brickner.]

4. Staff is concerned about the work level on a county wide. The scenarios and powerpoints they made were simple not refined so I see their main work was in typing the meeting break-out room stuff and then cutting/pasting on-line submissions. They have the numbers and ignore many issues so where's the extensive thought/dissertation required? They also had to attend 3 evening meetings and get other staff to man rooms.

5. Hone and Raney are not stupid and they can't blow them off like they did Brickner and Thompson [partisan politics]. Hunt was good as an at-large but got sidetracked , suffered from partisan politics, and was too bogged down with South County [forest for tree sight issue]. Olezack was useless [served as South County school board rep] and who knows what Moon does on critical at-large board member issues?

6. Hone flushed out an answer from strauss explaining which schools got IB- teachers were not already involved/trained in AP . [IMHO IB forced the school via mandatory measures from an outside entity to provide FAPE to the students. Coincidence that those schools also had more challenging demographics. That matched Jay Matthews Supertest book info on Mt vernon and why it specifically got IB - poor instructional leadership].

7. based on 6 - now that SL's and other schools are under a microscope and educating as opposed to warehousing, why keep IB if it's more expensive than AP?

8. tessie Wilson seems to think FCPS cancels low load classes. Where's that list someone had gotten from GTAC? Foreign language immersion class sizes at all
schools? How many in levels 3 , 4, 5 at all high schools and for all languages?

9. dialogue about fixing South Lakes - clearly there are students who do well there but it is also clear that if Strauss and Gibson built an addition at Langley for their people to avoid South Lakes [and Herndon] then there is a problem. If Tisdadt is so worried about Chantilly, why no movement between it and Westfield from other schools like Poplar Tree, Brookfield, lees Corner? Why the Greenbriar West island and no boundary chnages with poplar Tree? Stringfellow rd is being widened. Why didn't Chantilly get some bricks/mortar addition instead of Langley and Westfield? Why isn't there a seconadry school scenario for Westfield? Why did they built all these additions when work at carson could have resulted in a small high school?

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would anyone with official access post on FU?
> They're persons of importance in the fcps scheme
> of things and this is a venue for the voiceless.
>
>
If you are referring to me, I am voiceless and unimportant. Not currently on any committees through FCPS at large, simply through PTSA stuff and the like.

If anyone had any doubts about the complete arrogance of FCPS check out today's Post's front page story on the Lake Braddock kid's midday call to Tistadt's house after Tistadt didn't return the kid's call to Tistadt's office.

I'm not focused on that issue but on this statement by FCPS's flak:

Paul Regnier said". . . . Any call to a public servant's house is harassment."

Apparently we do not live in a democracy but an oligarchy in which the "public servants" are really despots who are not to be subjected to input from the public.

This guy is taking his last name way too seriously. He and his bosses are not kings. They work for us.

Working in the public sector means you accept being called at home. If you don't want calls at home go into the PRIVATE sector where you have to register with the National Do Not Call list to truly enjoy any privacy at home.

This guy, Regnier, needs to be signed up for a remedial course in civics at any FCPS high school and then has got to resign. Today!

Outrageous.

It's the same arrogance that gave us this redistricting process and imposed IB on SL without community buy in.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If anyone had any doubts about the complete
> arrogance of FCPS check out today's Post's front
> page story on the Lake Braddock kid's midday call
> to Tistadt's house after Tistadt didn't return the
> kid's call to Tistadt's office.
>
> I'm not focused on that issue but on this
> statement by FCPS's flak:
>
> Paul Regnier said". . . . Any call to a public
> servant's house is harassment."
>
> Apparently we do not live in a democracy but an
> oligarchy in which the "public servants" are
> really despots who are not to be subjected to
> input from the public.
>
> This guy is taking his last name way too
> seriously. He and his bosses are not kings. They
> work for us.
>
> Working in the public sector means you accept
> being called at home. If you don't want calls at
> home go into the PRIVATE sector where you have to
> register with the National Do Not Call list to
> truly enjoy any privacy at home.
>
> This guy, Regnier, needs to be signed up for a
> remedial course in civics at any FCPS high school
> and then has got to resign. Today!
>
> Outrageous.
>
> It's the same arrogance that gave us this
> redistricting process and imposed IB on SL without
> community buy in.


Gosh and come to think of it, it is harassment in a way for those being redistricted--I am not impressed with Regnier's statement.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If anyone had any doubts about the complete
> arrogance of FCPS check out today's Post's front
> page story on the Lake Braddock kid's midday call
> to Tistadt's house after Tistadt didn't return the
> kid's call to Tistadt's office.
>
> I'm not focused on that issue but on this
> statement by FCPS's flak:
>
> Paul Regnier said". . . . Any call to a public
> servant's house is harassment."
>
> Apparently we do not live in a democracy but an
> oligarchy in which the "public servants" are
> really despots who are not to be subjected to
> input from the public.
>
> This guy is taking his last name way too
> seriously. He and his bosses are not kings. They
> work for us.
>
> Working in the public sector means you accept
> being called at home. If you don't want calls at
> home go into the PRIVATE sector where you have to
> register with the National Do Not Call list to
> truly enjoy any privacy at home.
>
> This guy, Regnier, needs to be signed up for a
> remedial course in civics at any FCPS high school
> and then has got to resign. Today!
>
> Outrageous.
>
> It's the same arrogance that gave us this
> redistricting process and imposed IB on SL without
> community buy in.


Keep in mind that he prefaced the harrassment comment with his opinion that it was a "civility gap" A student was quoted in the paper about his dad, a physician receiving calls at all hours. I don't know that there is a need to ever call an official at home, whether private or public. The student who did make the call, did say he had attempted to call Tisdadt at work but had been unable to reach him...not sure how long he waited for a reply. I think these days of instant messaging may mean students expect all to reply instantly.

The student was not punished, and was civil in his calls. I don't think you can construe that "we do not live in a democracy but an
> oligarchy in which the 'public servants' are
> really despots who are not to be subjected to
> input from the public" from Reigner's poorly put statement.

Someone asked earlier, maybe Stephanie, on how to improve Dogwood/Lake Anne/Hughes, and SL. Well now here is a novel concept being implemented by our neighbors to the east. This is brilliant! hahahahaha

Balto. to Pay Students to Improve Test Scores
January 23, 2008 - 8:18am

BALTIMORE (AP) - Students in Baltimore's high schools will get a cash incentive to boost their scores on the state graduation exams.
The school system plans to spend nearly $1 million dollars on the incentives.

Students who have failed at least one exam under Maryland's High School Assessments will earn $25 for improving test performance by 5 percent. If they improve an additional 15 percent, they will get an additional $35. Another 20 percent improvement will earn an additional $50.

State school Superintendent Nancy Grasmick has approved the plan, with the provision that the school system closely track student results.

The incentives are only part of a broader $6 million plan to boost student performance on the tests. The plan includes the hiring of private companies for tutoring, after-school and Saturday classes, test preparation materials and teacher training. It will begin next month.

This might be a compromise for those who want the continue with the IB programme at South Lakes.Whether the South lakes community wants to admit it or not, the IB program is much better suited for those families and students who"want" the challenges that IB offers. I don't believe that you will ever get buyin from those folks who do seek the IB curriculum.

Please read the article, as it has some inetresting information.


http://www.ibo.org/ibworld/jan07/access.cfm

When we first looked into the IB Diploma Programme, the teachers involved with the study were unsure if it would be the right ‘fit’ for McAllen’s students. McAllen ISD is a Title One area
– an education system for children at risk of school failure, who live in low-income communities; 95% of our students are Hispanic, many are migrant students, and we have a large number of immigrants. After several trainings, school visits, consultations with the regional office and planning, we began to believe we could do it – and we did. Lamar Academy graduated the fifth class of IB students in May 2006. Our school and district are proud that all of our 99 IB students have earned diplomas over the past four years.

Our success began with our Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development Corporation, which gave financial support and ensured that the business community would endorse the programme. Early on, the school district decided
to put the programme at Lamar Academy rather than at one of the three comprehensive high schools. The programme was set up so that the students who attempted the IB Diploma Programme were still considered students at their home campus, where they participated in electives, fine arts, and athletics, while they took all of their academic (IB) classes at Lamar Academy.

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know that there is a need to ever call an official at home, whether
> private or public.

How obsequious.

Most times the only way to contact a public official is at home because they have an entire system designed to isolate them from the public they are supposed to serve.

> The student was not punished,

That this thought even crossed your mind shows how despotic this school system has become. There is absolutely no basis for a school system to consider any punishment of a student for placing a phone call to anyone.

> I don't think you can construe that "we do not live in a democracy but an
> oligarchy in which the 'public servants' are really despots who are not to be
> subjected to input from the public" from Reigner's poorly
> put statement.

"Poorly put statement." Reigner is supposedly the FCPS's professional public relations officer serving one of the largest public school systems in the country. He's not some poor boob that the reporter happened to run into on the hall. He is either wildly incompetent or he's been totally infused with the FCPS's bureaucratic arrogance after being inside the bubble far too long.

Given that this is not the first idiotic contribution from this guy, especially in regards to the redistricting, it really is time for this guy to go.

Thomas, please get some help for whatever ails you.

No More Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, please get some help for whatever ails you.

Another troll appears from under the bridge.

What "ails" all of us is a school system so bureaucratically arrogant and unresponsive to the needs of its kids that guys like Reigner still have their job.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No More Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas, please get some help for whatever ails
> you.
>
> Another troll appears from under the bridge.
>
> What "ails" all of us is a school system so
> bureaucratically arrogant and unresponsive to the
> needs of its kids that guys like Reigner still
> have their job.

Someone else agrees with you Thomas:

I find it interesting that parents are providing facts and statistics to prove that grade-point average disparities between Fairfax County schools and most other local counties, including Montgomery County, can harm students' chances of being accepted into selective colleges and of receiving merit scholarships.

As parents research the issue and provide evidence that a student in Fairfax County can receive a 3.5 GPA for the same work that gets a Montgomery County student a 4.6 GPA, Fairfax schools spokesman Paul Regnier merely responded with an off-the-cuff remark suggesting that these parents are insulting the intelligence of college admissions officials.

This response was patronizing and dismissive toward Fairfax students and parents. Shouldn't we expect such a thoughtful statistical analysis to come from county school officials rather than parents, who must do this work in their free time? With college admissions becoming more competitive and tuition becoming more unaffordable every year, families have a right to be concerned.

Fairfax County owes us a better explanation and some hard proof that our students are not being penalized unfairly.

SUZANNE S. SUMMERS

Annandale

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122802568_2.html

You live in a transient area, this is bound to happen!!!!!!

How many people who have been complaining about the school system on here are stay at home parents? Do something useful, get a job!!!!!! I know there are a lot of stay at home parents complaining about the schools or redistricting or their kids teachers, those teachers don't come into your kitchen and complain about your overcooked dinner. That being your job. Go do another load of laundry and shut the fuck up....

Concerned about redistricting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You live in a transient area, this is bound to
> happen!!!!!!
>
> How many people who have been complaining about
> the school system on here are stay at home
> parents? Do something useful, get a job!!!!!! I
> know there are a lot of stay at home parents
> complaining about the schools or redistricting or
> their kids teachers, those teachers don't come
> into your kitchen and complain about your
> overcooked dinner. That being your job. Go do
> another load of laundry and shut the fuck up....


Haven't you thought that maybe some of these posters have day jobs using their computers at their offices to post during their free time? Go do some laundry instead

Concerned about redistricting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You live in a transient area, this is bound to
> happen!!!!!!
>
> How many people who have been complaining about
> the school system on here are stay at home
> parents? Do something useful, get a job!!!!!! I
> know there are a lot of stay at home parents
> complaining about the schools or redistricting or
> their kids teachers, those teachers don't come
> into your kitchen and complain about your
> overcooked dinner. That being your job. Go do
> another load of laundry and shut the fuck up....


Haven't you thought that maybe some of these posters have day jobs using their computers at their offices to post during their free time? Go do some laundry instead

Yes,


And i am sure there are a ton of stay at home moms who having better to do, trust me I know this for fact, I would like to take this opportunity to to tell the stay at home complainers to shut the fuck up!!!!!

If you work you can complain.......

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As parents research the issue and provide evidence
> that a student in Fairfax County can receive a 3.5
> GPA for the same work that gets a Montgomery
> County student a 4.6 GPA, Fairfax schools
> spokesman Paul Regnier merely responded with an
> off-the-cuff remark suggesting that these parents
> are insulting the intelligence of college
> admissions officials.

When I'm rockin out at a gig and need a little extra something, take a look at my amp. All the numbers go to 11! So I says, why not take that approach to me kids education. I'll find me a school system that doesn't just have a 1 to 4 point GPA system, I'll find one that goes past 4, maybe to 5. Hell, why not 11!

Floris Parent Wrote:
> This might be a compromise for those who want the
> continue with the IB programme at South
> Lakes.Whether the South lakes community wants to
> admit it or not, the IB program is much better
> suited for those families and students who"want"
> the challenges that IB offers. I don't believe
> that you will ever get buyin from those folks who
> do seek the IB curriculum.
>
> Please read the article,
----
Thank you. I read the article. "McAllen, Texas, is home to the International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme at Lamar Academy. ... Our school and district are proud that all of our 99 IB students have earned diplomas over the past four years....The programme was set up so that the students who attempted the IB Diploma Programme were still considered students at their home campus, where they participated in electives, fine arts, and athletics, while they took all of their academic (IB) classes at Lamar Academy."

Then I looked up the school's website: http://lamar.mcallenisd.org/
The staff includes:
IB Coordinator
IB Coordinator Secretary
IB Strategist

Next I called the secretary, who told me they have "about 160" students" grade 9-12. (That is not a typo. She said "about a hundred and sixty" TOTAL for grades 9-12.)

Yes, I can see this might work. Create a separate, magnet, all-IB Diploma academy. Then remove all pre-IB, IB SL, and IB HL courses from South Lakes, and replace them with the regular, honors, and AP curriculum that other high schools have.

Does this meet everyone's needs?

----------------------------

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/25/AR2007092500549_pf.html

Is this the same Maria Allen who is involved in the SL PTSA?

How a Virtual AP Course Changed Her Son

By Jay Mathews
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 25, 2007; 9:14 AM



Maria Allen worried about her son Matthew's prospects in high school and beyond. He had always been regarded as an underachiever by his teachers. He received B's in middle school with virtually no effort because he did well on what were, she thought, very easy tests.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> > This might be a compromise for those who want
> the
> > continue with the IB programme at South
> > Lakes.Whether the South lakes community wants
> to
> > admit it or not, the IB program is much better
> > suited for those families and students
> who"want"
> > the challenges that IB offers. I don't believe
> > that you will ever get buyin from those folks
> who
> > do seek the IB curriculum.
> >
> > Please read the article,
> ----
> Thank you. I read the article. "McAllen, Texas, is
> home to the International Baccalaureate Diploma
> Programme at Lamar Academy. ... Our school and
> district are proud that all of our 99 IB students
> have earned diplomas over the past four
> years....The programme was set up so that the
> students who attempted the IB Diploma Programme
> were still considered students at their home
> campus, where they participated in electives, fine
> arts, and athletics, while they took all of their
> academic (IB) classes at Lamar Academy."
>
> Then I looked up the school's website:
> http://lamar.mcallenisd.org/
> The staff includes:
> IB Coordinator
> IB Coordinator Secretary
> IB Strategist
>
> Next I called the secretary, who told me they have
> "about 160" students" grade 9-12. (That is not a
> typo. She said "about a hundred and sixty" TOTAL
> for grades 9-12.)
>
> Yes, I can see this might work. Create a separate,
> magnet, all-IB Diploma academy. Then remove all
> pre-IB, IB SL, and IB HL courses from South Lakes,
> and replace them with the regular, honors, and AP
> curriculum that other high schools have.
>
> Does this meet everyone's needs?
>
> ----------------------------


This is intriguing..Raney ought to look into that since he has the staff and feasibility/utilization study without changing boundaries for SL for tomorrow's sb session.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I don't know that there is a need to ever call
> an official at home, whether
> > private or public.
>
> How obsequious.

Very funny interpretation. You think it is servile not to call someone at home? Would you call the head of Sprint at home?

>
> Most times the only way to contact a public
> official is at home because they have an entire
> system designed to isolate them from the public
> they are supposed to serve.

Wow, what a view. I truly don't think they are isolated, you can look up almost anyone's email and phone number, at work quite easily. Whether they respond is another issue, but no guarantee that calling them at home will instill a response (other than perhaps the wife's outraged response).
>
> > The student was not punished,
>
> That this thought even crossed your mind shows how
> despotic this school system has become. There is
> absolutely no basis for a school system to
> consider any punishment of a student for placing a
> phone call to anyone.

I didn't think he should be punished. I actually was worried that he was punished, which is why I made the comment. He didn't threaten or do anything worthy of punishment. I was in fear that the zero tolerance type of policies would lead to his punishment, and am glad it didn't.
>
> > I don't think you can construe that "we do not
> live in a democracy but an
> > oligarchy in which the 'public servants' are
> really despots who are not to be
> > subjected to input from the public" from
> Reigner's poorly
> > put statement.
>
> "Poorly put statement." Reigner is supposedly the
> FCPS's professional public relations officer
> serving one of the largest public school systems
> in the country. He's not some poor boob that the
> reporter happened to run into on the hall. He is
> either wildly incompetent or he's been totally
> infused with the FCPS's bureaucratic arrogance
> after being inside the bubble far too long.

> Given that this is not the first idiotic
> contribution from this guy, especially in regards
> to the redistricting, it really is time for this
> guy to go.

Hmmm...you know of no other leaders that speak poorly?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No More Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas, please get some help for whatever ails
> you.
>
> Another troll appears from under the bridge.
>
Why is it that anyone with a contrarian view is greeted as a troll? I think that it is interesting that many of the most active contributors of this forum seem to subscribe to the Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly school of public debate - repeat your opinion loudly and often while attacking your opposition. I look forward to seeing many of you at the upcoming public forums and wonder whether you will bring the same degree of bluster.

SapphicHokieMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it that anyone with a contrarian view is
> greeted as a troll? I think that it is
> interesting that many of the most active
> contributors of this forum seem to subscribe to
> the Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly school of
> public debate - repeat your opinion loudly and
> often while attacking your opposition.

Madam, that was not a contrarian view but an ad hominem attack.

Even a Hokie should know the difference.

Hopefully you also are familiar with bloggiing "trolls" who make a single inflammatory post without making real contribution to the exchange.

Is this still true for Fairfax County?

Advanced Programs Working Well in Tandem
Schools With Both AP And IB Rise in Post's Challenge Index Ranking

By Jay Mathews
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 15, 2005; GZ03



If Springbrook and Bethesda-Chevy Chase high schools were in Fairfax County, they would be breaking the rules. High schools in that Northern Virginia school district are not allowed to offer both the Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate programs. It is considered too divisive, too disruptive and too confusing for one school to have both of the rigorous college-level programs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/14/AR2005121401274_pf.html

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

It's interesting that you would expend that much energy defending a FCPS employee's incompetence.

> You think it is servile not to call someone at home?

My clients call me at home. I call my employees at home. It's rare but it happens.

Mr.Reigner's transgression is in suggesting that it is always and everywhere harassment to call a "public servant" at home.

> Would you call the head of Sprint at home?

1) I doubt the number is listed for reasons of the same bureaucratic arrogance displayed by Reigner in this instance.

2) The head of Sprint is not a public official.

3) If it were a stockholder, creditor or customer, the head of Sprint had better take the call.

> Wow, what a view. I truly don't think they are isolated, you can look up almost
> anyone's email and phone number, at work quite easily. Whether they respond is > another issue,

That's entirely the issue on this forum, the failure of "public servants" to respond to the public.

Reigner's statement is that seeking a response from a "public servant" is harassment.

I cannot tell you the number of times a teacher has called me at home, at some very inconvenient times, and they wouldn't give me their home number to enable me to call when it was more convenient for me. This kind of arrogance is pervasive in FCPS.

> I actually was worried that he was punished, which is why I
> made the comment. He didn't threaten or do anything worthy of punishment. I was > in fear that the zero tolerance type of policies would lead to
> his punishment, and am glad it didn't.

Your concern demonstrates the despotic levels to which FCPS has descended, together with many other public school systems.

> Hmmm...you know of no other leaders that speak poorly?

Reigner's supposedly an expert public relations professional who has been trained to put FCPS in the best light for all its constituencies.

Yet he regularly demonstrates a condescension toward the public in general, and parents in particular, that is unprofessional, disrespectful and harmful to FCPS.

For what he is being paid, there is no doubt a better flak can be found.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2008 02:42PM by Thomas More.

Well said, Thomas More.

Now I have a question off the mark---will these potentially redistricted kids attend Hughes MS instead of Carson MS?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I cannot tell you the number of times a teacher
> has called me at home, at some very inconvenient
> times, and they wouldn't give me their home number
> to enable me to call when it was more convenient
> for me. This kind of arrogance is pervasive in
> FCPS.

Well, I agree that would be irritating.

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Observer Wrote:
> >
> > > I asked earlier if your initials are L.E. I
> > > believe you were part, perhaps still are,
> part
> > of
> > > the GT advisory committee, and you were very
> > > vocally oppossed to TJ changing their
> > admissions
> > > policy. Correct?
> > >
> > > If you are so knowledgeable of what should
> > occur
> > > in schools/school boards/admissions
> > > policies/redistictring, and so oppossed to
> > certain
> > > members on the school board, why don't you
> take
> > > all that knowledge and energy, and run for a
> > > school board spot?
> >
> >
> > Yes, I am opposed to affirmative action,
> > everywhere. It hasn't helped blacks and
> > discriminates against everyone else, most
> > particularly another minority group, Asians.
> With
> > affirmative action at TJ, it is Asians who
> would
> > be hurt the most since they are the most 'over
> > represented'. I will not advocate for
> replacing
> > one minority group with another minority group
> at
> > any public school. I support merit based
> > admissions, without regard to race.
> >
> > My initials are not LE. Perhaps you would
> like
> > to share you initials with us, although I am
> not
> > sure that many would care. Nor do I understand
> > why you would care. Perhaps you could share
> that
> > with us also.
> >
> > I'm a conservative who believes in real
> education.
> > Surely you don't think someone like me could
> win
> > a seat on the school board. Do you?
>
>
> Mychelle Brickner and Steve Hunt were two
> conservative members, and I am sure there are
> others whose names I can't recall. You do express
> your views well, and yes I think a conservative
> could win.
>
> I asked about your initials because someone I
> know, whose initials are L.E was invovled with the
> GT advisory committee, and was involved with TJ
> (as a parent and as an advocate against the new
> admissions policy), and I thought it would be
> interesting if you were one and the same. You
> think quite alike.

Yes, there were two at-large conservatives, once upon a time. But both are gone the way of all conservatives in this county. Voters apparently prefer ever more fuzzy math, IB over AP, no more schools like TJ, no accountability, and no programs that challenge students to think and encourage diversity of ideas.

Are you telling us that you are on the GT committee?

I am definitely not your friend LE. Sorry.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well said, Thomas More.
>
> Now I have a question off the mark---will these
> potentially redistricted kids attend Hughes MS
> instead of Carson MS?

The postings on the FCPS website had consistently said that no elementary or junior high schools boundaries would be affected except for Sunrise and Hughes as regards the Madison Island.

>>>>Hmmm...you know of no other leaders that speak poorly?<<<<

Isn't Regnier the SPOKESPERSON for FCPS? Isn't his job to SPEAK?

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2007/09/25/AR2007092500549_pf.html
>
> Is this the same Maria Allen who is involved in
> the SL PTSA?
>
> How a Virtual AP Course Changed Her Son
>
> By Jay Mathews
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Tuesday, September 25, 2007; 9:14 AM
>
>
>
> Maria Allen worried about her son Matthew's
> prospects in high school and beyond. He had always
> been regarded as an underachiever by his teachers.
> He received B's in middle school with virtually no
> effort because he did well on what were, she
> thought, very easy tests.

Yes. She is often here too.

I see, if my kids go to SL, I can also sign them up for AP classes. A win/win situation!!


(what's that? I have to pay for these extra classes? how much? ^&%&^**%)


Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2007/09/25/AR2007092500549_pf.html
>
> Is this the same Maria Allen who is involved in
> the SL PTSA?
>
> How a Virtual AP Course Changed Her Son
>
> By Jay Mathews
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Tuesday, September 25, 2007; 9:14 AM
>
>
>
> Maria Allen worried about her son Matthew's
> prospects in high school and beyond. He had always
> been regarded as an underachiever by his teachers.
> He received B's in middle school with virtually no
> effort because he did well on what were, she
> thought, very easy tests.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well said, Thomas More.
>
> Now I have a question off the mark---will these
> potentially redistricted kids attend Hughes MS
> instead of Carson MS?


I have not heard of a switch out of Carson and into Hughes, but at the Westfield TH meeting, I was speaking with Dean Tisdadt in the hallway, and I mentioned to him that I thought it was "unusual" for 1 middle school (Carson) to feed to so many different High Schools, and He "JOKINGLY" replied that if the Floris parents had a problem with the Middle School (Carson), they (the SB Staff) could look into alternatives. Again, I will emphasize that he said this with a laugh, but sometimes, where there is smoke, there is fire. I think that this fall, when the Coppermine ES Boundaries are established, there is a possibility, that the Middle Schools could come into play.


Here are the stats regarding how Rachel Carson splits to the various high schools (this data is as of January 9, 2008):

Oakton: 321
WHS : 233
Chantilly: 45
Herndon: 2
Fairfax: l
TJ: Approximately 60 per year

I am not sure how the numbers would be impacted if the South lakes RD goes through.

I would be curious to see if anyone has information at hand on the other Pyramids, and how many Middle Schools feed into each HS.

>>>As parents research the issue and provide evidence
> that a student in Fairfax County can receive a 3.5
> GPA for the same work that gets a Montgomery
> County student a 4.6 GPA, Fairfax schools
> spokesman Paul Regnier merely responded with an
> off-the-cuff remark suggesting that these parents
> are insulting the intelligence of college
> admissions officials.<<<

Paul Regnier is wrong, and I suspect that he knows it. Few colleges hire someone to go through every application with a calculator recalculating each GPA. Everything I've read says they first do a quick sort by SAT and GPA, writing both on the outside of the application folder. To recalculate every single GPA would take a full time employee, and at some colleges, it would mean hiring several people just to refigure every GPA before any application is read. Not going to happen.