Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well said, Thomas More.
> >
> > Now I have a question off the mark---will these
> > potentially redistricted kids attend Hughes MS
> > instead of Carson MS?
>
>
> I have not heard of a switch out of Carson and
> into Hughes, but at the Westfield TH meeting, I
> was speaking with Dean Tisdadt in the hallway, and
> I mentioned to him that I thought it was "unusual"
> for 1 middle school (Carson) to feed to so many
> different High Schools, and He "JOKINGLY" replied
> that if the Floris parents had a problem with the
> Middle School (Carson), they (the SB Staff) could
> look into alternatives. Again, I will emphasize
> that he said this with a laugh, but sometimes,
> where there is smoke, there is fire. I think that
> this fall, when the Coppermine ES Boundaries are
> established, there is a possibility, that the
> Middle Schools could come into play.
>
>
> Here are the stats regarding how Rachel Carson
> splits to the various high schools (this data is
> as of January 9, 2008):
>
> Oakton: 321
> WHS : 233
> Chantilly: 45
> Herndon: 2
> Fairfax: l
> TJ: Approximately 60 per year
>
> I am not sure how the numbers would be impacted if
> the South lakes RD goes through.
>
> I would be curious to see if anyone has
> information at hand on the other Pyramids, and how
> many Middle Schools feed into each HS.


Madison has two feeders. Nearly all of Thoreau feeds to Madison, and a few students from Kilmer also feed to Madison. I think Marshall also has two feeders, with nearly all of Kilmer feeding to Marshall and a few from Longfellow. Cooper feeds to Langley, and possibly some of Longfellow. Longfellow primarily feeds to McLean. Frost feeds to Woodson as does some of Luther Jackson, although Jackson primarily goes to Falls Church.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well said, Thomas More.
> >
> > Now I have a question off the mark---will these
> > potentially redistricted kids attend Hughes MS
> > instead of Carson MS?
>
>
> I have not heard of a switch out of Carson and
> into Hughes, but at the Westfield TH meeting, I
> was speaking with Dean Tisdadt in the hallway, and
> I mentioned to him that I thought it was "unusual"
> for 1 middle school (Carson) to feed to so many
> different High Schools, and He "JOKINGLY" replied
> that if the Floris parents had a problem with the
> Middle School (Carson), they (the SB Staff) could
> look into alternatives. Again, I will emphasize
> that he said this with a laugh, but sometimes,
> where there is smoke, there is fire. I think that
> this fall, when the Coppermine ES Boundaries are
> established, there is a possibility, that the
> Middle Schools could come into play.
>
>
> Here are the stats regarding how Rachel Carson
> splits to the various high schools (this data is
> as of January 9, 2008):
>
> Oakton: 321
> WHS : 233
> Chantilly: 45
> Herndon: 2
> Fairfax: l
> TJ: Approximately 60 per year
>
> I am not sure how the numbers would be impacted if
> the South lakes RD goes through.
>
> I would be curious to see if anyone has
> information at hand on the other Pyramids, and how
> many Middle Schools feed into each HS.


I don't think they could effectively redistrict middle schools, both Carson and Hughes are near capacity and the MI will add to Hughes numbers. Adding FM & Floris to Hughes would make it bust out at the seams.

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2009-2013cd/pdf/Cluster%208%202009-13.pdf#xml=http://search.fcps.edu/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/webinator/search/xml.txt?query=school+capacities&pr=public&prox=sentence&rorder=750&rprox=750&rdfreq=500&rwfreq=500&rlead=500&sufs=1&order=r&cq=&id=476e00e1d

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well said, Thomas More.
> >
> > Now I have a question off the mark---will these
> > potentially redistricted kids attend Hughes MS
> > instead of Carson MS?
>
>
> I have not heard of a switch out of Carson and
> into Hughes, but at the Westfield TH meeting, I
> was speaking with Dean Tisdadt in the hallway, and
> I mentioned to him that I thought it was "unusual"
> for 1 middle school (Carson) to feed to so many
> different High Schools, and He "JOKINGLY" replied
> that if the Floris parents had a problem with the
> Middle School (Carson), they (the SB Staff) could
> look into alternatives. Again, I will emphasize
> that he said this with a laugh, but sometimes,
> where there is smoke, there is fire. I think that
> this fall, when the Coppermine ES Boundaries are
> established, there is a possibility, that the
> Middle Schools could come into play.
>
>
> Here are the stats regarding how Rachel Carson
> splits to the various high schools (this data is
> as of January 9, 2008):
>
> Oakton: 321
> WHS : 233
> Chantilly: 45
> Herndon: 2
> Fairfax: l
> TJ: Approximately 60 per year
>
> I am not sure how the numbers would be impacted if
> the South lakes RD goes through.
>
> I would be curious to see if anyone has
> information at hand on the other Pyramids, and how
> many Middle Schools feed into each HS.


Ok thanks--yes that is what I thought about Carson having to feed so many HSs if this RD goes through. That was one of the talking points given by my community at the last meeting--that FCPS is very vocal about the numbers of feeders--unless FCPS has changed its mind about the limit of feeders into HSs the way Tisdadt "joked"? Cringing...

I suspect D.Tisdadt joked about sending Floris to Hughes, or anywhere for that matter, is beacuase he knows how f***ed up the feeder system is.

Madison is really a mess, Oakton ES isn't in the pyramid but feeds half of Madison HS. I guess the good news is that the HS redistricting is so screwed up that they'd be unlikley to even bother trying with ES or MS.

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2009-2013cd/pdf/Cluster%202%202009-13.pdf#xml=http://search.fcps.edu/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/webinator/search/xml.txt?query=school+capacities&pr=public&prox=sentence&rorder=750&rprox=750&rdfreq=500&rwfreq=500&rlead=500&sufs=1&order=r&cq=&id=476e00de50

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> > many Middle Schools feed into each HS.
>
>
> Madison has two feeders. Nearly all of Thoreau
> feeds to Madison, and a few students from Kilmer
> also feed to Madison. I think Marshall also has
> two feeders, with nearly all of Kilmer feeding to
> Marshall and a few from Longfellow. Cooper feeds
> to Langley, and possibly some of Longfellow.
> Longfellow primarily feeds to McLean. Frost feeds
> to Woodson as does some of Luther Jackson,
> although Jackson primarily goes to Falls Church.
>
>
> Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


Hughes, as a GT Center, feeds some of those kids to Madison. I don't know the %.

AFMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect D.Tisdadt joked about sending Floris to
> Hughes, or anywhere for that matter, is beacuase
> he knows how f***ed up the feeder system is.
>
> Madison is really a mess, Oakton ES isn't in the
> pyramid but feeds half of Madison HS. I guess the
> good news is that the HS redistricting is so
> screwed up that they'd be unlikley to even bother
> trying with ES or MS.
>
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2009-2013cd/pdf/Cluster
> %202%202009-13.pdf#xml=http://search.fcps.edu/cgi-
> bin/texis.cgi/webinator/search/xml.txt?query=schoo
> l+capacities&pr=public&prox=sentence&rorder=750&rp
> rox=750&rdfreq=500&rwfreq=500&rlead=500&sufs=1&ord
> er=r&cq=&id=476e00de50

Half of Oakton elementary feeds to Madison? From Thoreau? I'm having a difficult time thinking of which parts of Oakton elementary would feed to Madison. Are these people with a Vienna address? I am aware that parts of Oakton, out Vale Rd, closer to SL, go to Flint Hill, Thoreau, and Madison. Thoreau is REALLY far for them, worse is their GT center at Kilmer, which will soon be moved to Luther Jackson, which is even farther.

AT least 4 SB members want ALL the boundaries redrawn, beginning with elementary schools and moving up the pyramids. But they would have to get three more board members to agree. I think they all know that it would be a nightmare. Only those with no intentions to run again could support it.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> > many Middle Schools feed into each HS.
> >
> >
> > Madison has two feeders. Nearly all of Thoreau
> > feeds to Madison, and a few students from
> Kilmer
> > also feed to Madison. I think Marshall also
> has
> > two feeders, with nearly all of Kilmer feeding
> to
> > Marshall and a few from Longfellow. Cooper
> feeds
> > to Langley, and possibly some of Longfellow.
> > Longfellow primarily feeds to McLean. Frost
> feeds
> > to Woodson as does some of Luther Jackson,
> > although Jackson primarily goes to Falls Church.
>
> >
> >
> > Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
>
>
> Hughes, as a GT Center, feeds some of those kids
> to Madison. I don't know the %.

Are you sure about that? Sunrise Valley kids go to Kilmer and then Madison. Which elementary GT center feeds to Hughes and then Madison? It may happen, but I don't know where those students would come from.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see, if my kids go to SL, I can also sign them
> up for AP classes. A win/win situation!!
>
>
> (what's that? I have to pay for these extra
> classes? how much? ^&%&^**%)
>

FTA: She said the school district would have paid the online fee, as it did for her other son, if Matthew had been enrolled then at South Lakes High School, where he is now a ninth-grader.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Half of Oakton elementary feeds to Madison? From
> Thoreau? I'm having a difficult time thinking of
> which parts of Oakton elementary would feed to
> Madison. Are these people with a Vienna address?
> I am aware that parts of Oakton, out Vale Rd,
> closer to SL, go to Flint Hill, Thoreau, and
> Madison. Thoreau is REALLY far for them, worse is
> their GT center at Kilmer, which will soon be
> moved to Luther Jackson, which is even farther.
>
> AT least 4 SB members want ALL the boundaries
> redrawn, beginning with elementary schools and
> moving up the pyramids. But they would have to
> get three more board members to agree. I think
> they all know that it would be a nightmare. Only
> those with no intentions to run again could
> support it.

The white half of Oakton ES that doesn't feed Oakton HS would be the part that feeds Madison via Thoreau,http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/scenarios/alternativeoption.pdf. That big white section to the left of the Oakton ES district is a Flint Hill ES district. For those who don't know where FHES is, it's one block away from Madison HS. Those kids basically traverse the Oakton ES district to get to school every day. I guess HS islands are a bigger deal to the SB then ES islands.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> Madison has two feeders. Nearly all of Thoreau
> feeds to Madison, and a few students from Kilmer
> also feed to Madison. I think Marshall also has
> two feeders, with nearly all of Kilmer feeding to
> Marshall and a few from Longfellow. Cooper feeds
> to Langley, and possibly some of Longfellow.
> Longfellow primarily feeds to McLean. Frost feeds
> to Woodson as does some of Luther Jackson,
> although Jackson primarily goes to Falls Church.
>
>
> Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Just to add to the discussion, though Glasgow primarily feeds into Stuart, due to the GT Center there they also feed into Annandale, Falls Church and TJ and a few random kids from Bailey's ES Spanish Immersion that go to Glasgow veer off into other HS's in a variety of clusters.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I see, if my kids go to SL, I can also sign
> them
> > up for AP classes. A win/win situation!!
> >
> >
> > (what's that? I have to pay for these extra
> > classes? how much? ^&%&^**%)
> >
>
> FTA: She said the school district would have paid
> the online fee, as it did for her other son, if
> Matthew had been enrolled then at South Lakes High
> School, where he is now a ninth-grader.

For most boys, a full day of school is enough. The last thing they want to do is come home and take an additional course online, particularly an AP course with all the work that entails.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I see, if my kids go to SL, I can also sign
> them
> > up for AP classes. A win/win situation!!
> >
> >
> > (what's that? I have to pay for these extra
> > classes? how much? ^&%&^**%)
> >
>
> FTA: She said the school district would have paid
> the online fee, as it did for her other son, if
> Matthew had been enrolled then at South Lakes High
> School, where he is now a ninth-grader.

They won't pay for the course though if the HS student is already enrolled in 7 classes.

If the student isn't enrolled in 7 courses, and enrolls in an FCPS on-line course, the county will pay. My son's schedule was mixed up at the start of the year, and the suggestion was for him to be an "office assistant" in lieu of one of his 7 periods, and then take an on-line class at home. He wasn't very fond of that idea, and instead of the elective he wanted (they couldn't fit it into his schedule because his core classes were taught when it was taught) he is taking "Advanced" PE LOL>

My understanding is that due to transportation issues with some of the Academy courses, and getting back to base schools in a timely fashion, many of those students do take AP or other on-line classes, which do end up being paid for since a block can be taken up by transportation.

And I am sure there are others, who do pay for the course and perhaps pack on credits in order to leave HS early.

Ok, got another question--does anybody know what the Fairfax Board of Supervisors' relationship is with the FCPS SB? I read somewhere that they have some control over the sb, is this correct?

AFMD Wrote:

>
> I don't think they could effectively redistrict
> middle schools, both Carson and Hughes are near
> capacity and the MI will add to Hughes numbers.
> Adding FM & Floris to Hughes would make it bust
> out at the seams.
>
--------
The South Lakes parents on this thread appear to resist strongly any "Academy" or "Magnet" program being added. Should the Hughes GT program thereforewalso be removed? Then there would be space to match up middle school and high school boundaries.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, got another question--does anybody know what
> the Fairfax Board of Supervisors' relationship is
> with the FCPS SB? I read somewhere that they have
> some control over the sb, is this correct?

T"he Power of the Purses Strings": The great majority of the FCPS budget comes from the County, meaning allocated by the Board of Supervisors.

For example, the school CIP is part of the County CIP. Among the concerns of the Board of Supervisors is the County's Bond Rating, so they strictly limit how much borrowed money (government bonds) may be spent on school renovations and new construction each year. Within that cap, the School Board votes on how to allocate CIP funding.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I see, if my kids go to SL, I can also sign
> them
> > up for AP classes. A win/win situation!!
> >
> >
> > (what's that? I have to pay for these extra
> > classes? how much? ^&%&^**%)
> >
>
> FTA: She said the school district would have paid
> the online fee, as it did for her other son, if
> Matthew had been enrolled then at South Lakes High
> School, where he is now a ninth-grader.


I've heard something about that, but I think there are some limitations on that. At any rate, it seems like a neat idea if it would work for us. I'd be all over it if FCPS would let kids do that and not charge them.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, got another question--does anybody know what the Fairfax Board of Supervisors' > relationship is with the FCPS SB? I read somewhere that they have
> some control over the sb, is this correct?

Only over the school budget.

Some Stats for Various FCPS

School Mobility Rank AP/IB FRM % ESOL% Enrollment
06/07 Year 06/07 Year 06/07 Year 06/07 Year

Mt. Vernon #1 25.5% IB 38% 8.9% 1898

Stuart #2 24.32% IB 50.85% 18.9% 1665

Falls Church #3 22.03% AP 37% 14.6% 1475

Hayfield #4 20.51% AP 20% 5.4% 1604

Annandale #5 20.35% IB 40% 14% 2546

Lee #6 18.97% IB 32% 12.4% 2082

W Potomac #7 18.31% AP 30.37% 8.15% 2097

South Lakes #8 17.20 IB 33.12% 8.85% 1529

Marshall #9 15.09% IB 15.6% 6.4% 1438

Fairfax #10 14.85% AP 15.97% 8.37% 2270

Edison #11 14.68 IB 29% 8.8% 1873


Out of 25 High Schools in Fairfax County ,7 out of the 11 High Schools with the Highest Mobility rankings are also IB Schools.

With the Exception of Marshall HS, almost all of the IB based schools have FRM and ESOL percentages that are well above the County averages of 19% FRM and not sure about ESOL%

2007 SAT I average AP/IB

Oakton 1680 AP
Madison 1679 AP
Marshall 1644 IB
Westfield 1616 AP
Chantilly 1623 AP
Robinson 1649 IB/AP
South Lakes 1596 IB
West Potomac 1574 AP
Fairfax 1574 AP
Stuart 1534 IB
Falls Church 1512 AP
Annandale 1510 IB
Lee 1507 IB
Mt. Vernon 1505 IB
Edison 1491 IB
Hayfield 1484 AP

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie,
>
> I just want to wish you best of luck at your next
> big gymnastic meet. Isn't it this Thursday? Then,
> you've got districts on Monday. How exciting. The
> after school practices must be grueling.
>
> regards,
> bird

Why do you know this much about highschool gymnastics? Do you have a daughter on the team?

I know this is a little off topic, but I think that this thread has the right audience. I want to start a virtual fairfax county book club and want to see if anyone is interested.

If so, maybe we can start with Elizabeth Gilbert's "Eat, Pray, Love." Who else has already read it? It is such an inspirational book. I spent last weekend at an Ashram so I was able to relate to so much in the section in India. But I must say, I feel like I need to go to Little Italy in Baltimore after reading the section in Rome. I have such a craving for good Italian food.

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this is a little off topic, but I think
> that this thread has the right audience. I want
> to start a virtual fairfax county book club and
> want to see if anyone is interested.

A *LITTLE* off topic? Try *ENTIRELY* off topic -- the last thing this thread needs.

A smarter approach would be to start a new thread, and to *MAYBE* post a pointer here, though it's still off-topic and thus, well, un-netiquette-worthy (I'd say 'rude' but too many posts in this thread already blew my definition of the word).

truant officer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dee.
>
> At 1:57pm today, weren't you supposed to be in
> school? (raised eybrow)
>
> Seriously though, don't worry about what you read
> here about your school or any school be it good,
> bad or indifferent. I'm sure the kids will be
> fine wherever they end up going.
>
> I couldn't send my kid to a school where the
> cheerleaders didn't do "wiggle dances" though.
> Don't they do that at all schools?

your right Mr. Truent officer, all cheerleaders wiggle. And, just because ours wiggle a little more, but not in any bad way, doesn't mean anything at all.

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this is a little off topic, but I think
> that this thread has the right audience. I want
> to start a virtual fairfax county book club and
> want to see if anyone is interested.
>
> If so, maybe we can start with Elizabeth Gilbert's
> "Eat, Pray, Love." Who else has already read it?
> It is such an inspirational book. I spent last
> weekend at an Ashram so I was able to relate to so
> much in the section in India. But I must say, I
> feel like I need to go to Little Italy in
> Baltimore after reading the section in Rome. I
> have such a craving for good Italian food.


hmmm, I don't know, could tie into the Grand Culinary Wing at South Lakes.

Neen wrote:

"...so true. Even at TJ, the artsy projects are ridiculous and very tough for many boys who don't do arts and crafts well. Most parents realize that adult jobs are much more likely to require writing than an art poster to decorate the office."
____________________

My favorite is the 'group' artsy project. Especially, when the 'group' is meeting at at my house.

Thirty minutes into the project, I usually find the little artists playing pool. One time, I found them playing poker, for money. (project, untouched) ha

Observer wrote:

"Charming, I truly thought I knew her, and was simply curious. I know many of you know who everyone is. I don't, and was curious if it was someone I knew. Your earlier post was also silly. Never said I was important, asked twice because I wasn't sure if she had seen the first. If you had a colleague from a committee you were on posting, or thought you did, wouldn't you want to know?"
___________________________
If that was your true intention, I apologize.

If I suspected a colleague or friend was posting at the same forum as I, I would privately contact that person. But, that's just me.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am wondering-does anybody know who will be there
> to listen to the speakers during the boundary
> public hearings on Jan 30/31? Will any of the sb
> members be there?

All of the school board members should be there but they will come and go. Some will pretend to listen, but they've all already decided how they will vote. Stu will make faces during the speeches of of those who disagree with the boundary change, or he'll get up and take a break during your speech to go into the audience and speak with his SL groupies who will be there throughout the speeches.

It will televised on channel 21.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, got another question--does anybody know what
> the Fairfax Board of Supervisors' relationship is
> with the FCPS SB? I read somewhere that they have
> some control over the sb, is this correct?

Yes the Board of Supervisors controls the purse strings. They decide each year how much money FCPS will get. Both boards are 10 to 2 democrats over republicans so of course they BOS wants to make the School board look good, and vice versa. They are all democrat politicians who support each other.

yeahright Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone asked earlier, maybe Stephanie, on how to
> improve Dogwood/Lake Anne/Hughes, and SL. Well
> now here is a novel concept being implemented by
> our neighbors to the east. This is brilliant!
> hahahahaha
>
> Balto. to Pay Students to Improve Test Scores
> January 23, 2008 - 8:18am
>
> BALTIMORE (AP) - Students in Baltimore's high
> schools will get a cash incentive to boost their
> scores on the state graduation exams.
> The school system plans to spend nearly $1 million
> dollars on the incentives.
>
> Students who have failed at least one exam under
> Maryland's High School Assessments will earn $25
> for improving test performance by 5 percent. If
> they improve an additional 15 percent, they will
> get an additional $35. Another 20 percent
> improvement will earn an additional $50.
>
> State school Superintendent Nancy Grasmick has
> approved the plan, with the provision that the
> school system closely track student results.
>
> The incentives are only part of a broader $6
> million plan to boost student performance on the
> tests. The plan includes the hiring of private
> companies for tutoring, after-school and Saturday
> classes, test preparation materials and teacher
> training. It will begin next month.

Wow! Just like real people, getting paid for what they produce. If they work hard and get results, they get paid more, just like the real world. Quite a concept. Who knows? It just might work, just like the real world.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >> > many Middle Schools feed into each HS.
> > >
> > >
> > > Madison has two feeders. Nearly all of
> Thoreau
> > > feeds to Madison, and a few students from
> > Kilmer
> > > also feed to Madison. I think Marshall also
> > has
> > > two feeders, with nearly all of Kilmer
> feeding
> > to
> > > Marshall and a few from Longfellow. Cooper
> > feeds
> > > to Langley, and possibly some of Longfellow.
> > > Longfellow primarily feeds to McLean. Frost
> > feeds
> > > to Woodson as does some of Luther Jackson,
> > > although Jackson primarily goes to Falls
> Church.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
> >
> >
> > Hughes, as a GT Center, feeds some of those
> kids
> > to Madison. I don't know the %.
>
> Are you sure about that? Sunrise Valley kids go
> to Kilmer and then Madison. Which elementary GT
> center feeds to Hughes and then Madison? It may
> happen, but I don't know where those students
> would come from.



As far as I know, there are no students from Hughes, GT or otherwise, that are within Madison HS boundaries. A good number of them, depending on the year, pupil place coming out of Hughes into Madison, so that might be what is giving you that impression.

The GT center at Sunrise Valley does pull in students whose base school is Wolftrap ES, but at the middle school level, those students move over to Kilmer, and not to Hughes. Similarly, the GT center at Sunrise Valley pulls in students from Oakton ES, who then attend Kilmer, and not Hughes, for Middle School.

The Hughes GT students move on to South Lakes and Herndon High Schools, unless they are pupil placed or leave the FCPS system for greener pastures.

AFMD,

I'm proud of you. Not one ad hominem attack in two days. Continue on your quest.

Genevieve has an excellent idea: a book club for the underground ladies of Fairfax County. I will post this suggestion on the main page of the forum.

P.S. Your first selection is certainly worth a discussion. It was, afterall, on Oprah's book list. Then, we might want to delve into D.H. Lawrence.

The Fairfax HS DSA finally got his wish and FFX will be out of Concorde District and back in Liberty the year after next, replacing Stone Bridge which is being moved to the Northwest region.

Another Division 6 school for the SL football team to lose to every year, just like Herndon. What's the SL football record against Herndon? 3-22

Tell me again why the South Lakes Boundary Study Group and his craveness are so deferential toward Herndon.

They must enjoy having their football kids being a homecoming cupcake for every other high school in the County every year.

The hits just keep on coming.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> >
> > FTA: She said the school district would have
> paid
> > the online fee, as it did for her other son, if
> > Matthew had been enrolled then at South Lakes
> High
> > School, where he is now a ninth-grader.
>
>
> I've heard something about that, but I think there
> are some limitations on that. At any rate, it
> seems like a neat idea if it would work for us.
> I'd be all over it if FCPS would let kids do that
> and not charge them.


My SLHS senior has also taken AP courses online. He is just finishing online AP Psychology, and will start AP Macroeconomics in a few days. A plus for him is starting school every day at 9am instead of 7:20 since the online course replaces first period. He also takes several IB courses at South Lakes, but he isn't a Diploma Candidate and these AP courses interested him. The online courses are demanding but very structured and predictable, which he also finds appealing.

You can see the online course catalogue at http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/onlinecampus/crse-cat.htm. FCPS contracts with Apex Learning www.apexlearning.com for the 15 or so AP courses. As long as your student takes only seven courses in all, Fairfax County pays for the online course. I don't know if there is a limit to the number of online courses a student can take, but I know that some take more than one.

Most of the FCPS students enrolled in the online courses are there because of scheduling conflicts at their AP schools.

The FCPS online campus won't provide you with a great deal of information about the courses. If you are interested, go the the provider's website www.apexlearning.com where you can see a detailed syllabus for each course.

Hey Maria - why not send him to a real school, you know one that has AP and is not ghetto? Why geek out online?

And thanks so much to you and all of the SL PTSA members for drafting Option 5 and posting it on your web site. The good folks at Fox Mill, Floris and the Madison Island will not forget your efforts. You will be held responsible.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Maria - why not send him to a real school, you
> know one that has AP and is not ghetto? Why geek
> out online?
>
> And thanks so much to you and all of the SL PTSA
> members for drafting Option 5 and posting it on
> your web site. The good folks at Fox Mill, Floris
> and the Madison Island will not forget your
> efforts. You will be held responsible.


Oh my gawd I just visited their website..such in detail! Everybody go to the SL website and click on parents/community to the SL PTA information. THANKS alot!!

At least Maria has been open about the desire to only tell "advantaged" kids that they need to change districts and not go where their older friends and siblings did.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Maria - why not send him to a real school, you
> know one that has AP and is not ghetto? Why geek
> out online?
>
> And thanks so much to you and all of the SL PTSA
> members for drafting Option 5 and posting it on
> your web site. The good folks at Fox Mill, Floris
> and the Madison Island will not forget your
> efforts. You will be held responsible.


Also, the SL PTA website showed a new link of the 3 miles radius to each high school from communities surrounding the high school..the Navy folks will NOT have a 3 miles commute to Oakton. Stupid, sorry.

Maria Allen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > >
> > > FTA: She said the school district would have
> > paid
> > > the online fee, as it did for her other son,
> if
> > > Matthew had been enrolled then at South Lakes
> > High
> > > School, where he is now a ninth-grader.
> >
> >
> > I've heard something about that, but I think
> there
> > are some limitations on that. At any rate, it
> > seems like a neat idea if it would work for us.
> > I'd be all over it if FCPS would let kids do
> that
> > and not charge them.
>
>
> My SLHS senior has also taken AP courses online.
> He is just finishing online AP Psychology, and
> will start AP Macroeconomics in a few days. A plus
> for him is starting school every day at 9am
> instead of 7:20 since the online course replaces
> first period. He also takes several IB courses at
> South Lakes, but he isn't a Diploma Candidate and
> these AP courses interested him. The online
> courses are demanding but very structured and
> predictable, which he also finds appealing.
>
> You can see the online course catalogue at
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/onlinecampus/crse-cat.htm.
> FCPS contracts with Apex Learning
> www.apexlearning.com for the 15 or so AP courses.
> As long as your student takes only seven courses
> in all, Fairfax County pays for the online course.
> I don't know if there is a limit to the number of
> online courses a student can take, but I know that
> some take more than one.
>
> Most of the FCPS students enrolled in the online
> courses are there because of scheduling conflicts
> at their AP schools.
>
> The FCPS online campus won't provide you with a
> great deal of information about the courses. If
> you are interested, go the the provider's website
> www.apexlearning.com where you can see a detailed
> syllabus for each course.

Hi Maria,

I am wondering if the online courses offered by the county might solve some of the issues regarding access to certain classes that some students at South lakes say are not offered due to lower enrollments.

Can you also give me and idea of home many Students in South Lakes are enrolled in the IB Diploma program, how many are enrolled in some IB courses, and how many students are simply enrolled in General Education curriculum?

What I have been try to understand regarding this RD is:

What resources and or classes would South Lakes like to have that they currently do not offer?

What are the true benifits for the Fox Mill and Floris students who would be asked to leave Oakton and Westfield and attend South Lakes?

Other than diluting the percentages of FRM and ESOL numbers, what benifits do you expect if this RD goes through, as in relates to aiding those "disadvantaged" students?

What are your thoughts on why almost all of the IB Program schools in the County have lower enrollment numbers, as well as higher Mobility rates and higher percentages of FRM and ESOL students?

2007 SAT I average AP/IB

Oakton 1680 AP
Madison 1679 AP
Marshall 1644 IB
Westfield 1616 AP
Chantilly 1623 AP
Robinson 1649 IB/AP
South Lakes 1596 IB
West Potomac 1574 AP
Fairfax 1574 AP
Stuart 1534 IB
Falls Church 1512 AP
Annandale 1510 IB
Lee 1507 IB
Mt. Vernon 1505 IB
Edison 1491 IB
Hayfield 1484 AP

Why is South Lakes not supporting a County Wide RD, when it is apparent that there are many other schools that share similar demogramphics, declining enrollments, higher ESOL and FRM students, just like South Lakes?

What are your thoughts on why the South Lakes enrollments are declining, when all of the Western Fairfax County schools are growing?

I have heard that one of the reasons for decling enrollments, is that the Reston population is aging, and if this is true, it raises another question--

As I look at the enrollment statistics over the last 10 years for South Lakes, it appears that enrollments for almost all races are stable or rising, except for Caucasian race, which is showing dramatic declines (over 500 less Caucasian students). What this is suggesting is that it is only the Caucasian Families and households that are aging. This is statistically very unlikely, but since I do not live in Reston, I wondered what your thoughts are regarding the declining enrollment at South Lakes.

Do you feel that there is a relationship between the IB schools, as it relates to lower SAT scores, lower enrollments, higher mobility rates, higher FRM and ESOL students?, or is it just a coincindence?

Is there a statistic that shows the relative SAT scores of those students enrolled in IB Diploma and IB classes, compared to the SAT scores of those students who are enrolled in the General Edcucation courses?

I and many other interested parents are trying to understand what South Lakes realy wants in their school.

Does South Lakes want to be perceived as a mainstream HS, on par with Oakton, Langley, Madison, Chantilly as it relates to Sports, SAT scores, etc.? If so, it would seem that South Lakes would need to drop IB, and go back to an AP based school.

Does South Lakes enjoy being one of the few schools in the County to offer the IB curriculum? It seems that for those few students in South Lakes who acheive the IB Diploma (45 students last year and 25 the year before), IB offers almost automatic entrance into top universities in the nation, but what about the rest of the students?

I do not think a school can appeal to both the general ed students, and still maintain a "school within a school" environment that South Lakes currently has in place. You cannot have the "exclusive club of IB diploma students", and also attract the main stream students who will fill up the football roster, booster clubs etc. Those parents with bright, but not gifted children are going to gravitate towards the more main stream schools in the area that offer, a more balance mix of Academics, and the extracurricular activities, found at these schools.

In summary, what are the benifits of the RD for the incoming Students who are not going to persue the IB Diploma?

How will the incoming Freshman student who did not take a Language class in 7th or 8th grade be able to enter the IB Diploma program<

Do you feel the the benifits of an IB program that has issued less that 100 diplomas over the last 5 years to students in South Lakes, justifies the costs?

Almost everything that I have read about IB leads me to believe that IB should be offered in an Acadamy type school, where parents and students "voluntarilly" place into the program.

I have many other questions and concerns, but will have to save them for the SB meetings on the 30th and 31st.

Any other South Lakes RD supporters are also welcome to chime in.

Hi Maria,

A follow up question- Is there a break down of students who are enrolled in the IB Diploma program and or enrolled in some IB classes by Race and or "Socio-economic status? I know that the FCPS web site for South Lakes provides a break down of demographics by Race, FRM and ESOL, but I am not sure where to look, to find information about SAT scores etc., based on the demographics of a school.

Maria - was the 17 year old Reston youth arrested for stabbing on Jan 1 enrolled in IB, or was he in gen ed?

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maria Allen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > >
> > > > FTA: She said the school district would
> have
> > > paid
> > > > the online fee, as it did for her other
> son,
> > if
> > > > Matthew had been enrolled then at South
> Lakes
> > > High
> > > > School, where he is now a ninth-grader.
> > >
> > >
> > > I've heard something about that, but I think
> > there
> > > are some limitations on that. At any rate, it
> > > seems like a neat idea if it would work for
> us.
> > > I'd be all over it if FCPS would let kids do
> > that
> > > and not charge them.
> >
> >
> > My SLHS senior has also taken AP courses
> online.
> > He is just finishing online AP Psychology, and
> > will start AP Macroeconomics in a few days. A
> plus
> > for him is starting school every day at 9am
> > instead of 7:20 since the online course
> replaces
> > first period. He also takes several IB courses
> at
> > South Lakes, but he isn't a Diploma Candidate
> and
> > these AP courses interested him. The online
> > courses are demanding but very structured and
> > predictable, which he also finds appealing.
> >
> > You can see the online course catalogue at
> >
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/onlinecampus/crse-cat.htm.
>
> > FCPS contracts with Apex Learning
> > www.apexlearning.com for the 15 or so AP
> courses.
> > As long as your student takes only seven
> courses
> > in all, Fairfax County pays for the online
> course.
> > I don't know if there is a limit to the number
> of
> > online courses a student can take, but I know
> that
> > some take more than one.
> >
> > Most of the FCPS students enrolled in the
> online
> > courses are there because of scheduling
> conflicts
> > at their AP schools.
> >
> > The FCPS online campus won't provide you with a
> > great deal of information about the courses. If
> > you are interested, go the the provider's
> website
> > www.apexlearning.com where you can see a
> detailed
> > syllabus for each course.
>
> Hi Maria,
>
> I am wondering if the online courses offered by
> the county might solve some of the issues
> regarding access to certain classes that some
> students at South lakes say are not offered due to
> lower enrollments.
>
> Can you also give me and idea of home many
> Students in South Lakes are enrolled in the IB
> Diploma program, how many are enrolled in some IB
> courses, and how many students are simply enrolled
> in General Education curriculum?
>
> What I have been try to understand regarding this
> RD is:
>
> What resources and or classes would South Lakes
> like to have that they currently do not offer?
>
> What are the true benifits for the Fox Mill and
> Floris students who would be asked to leave Oakton
> and Westfield and attend South Lakes?
>
> Other than diluting the percentages of FRM and
> ESOL numbers, what benifits do you expect if this
> RD goes through, as in relates to aiding those
> "disadvantaged" students?
>
> What are your thoughts on why almost all of the IB
> Program schools in the County have lower
> enrollment numbers, as well as higher Mobility
> rates and higher percentages of FRM and ESOL
> students?
>
> 2007 SAT I average AP/IB
>
> Oakton 1680 AP
> Madison 1679 AP
> Marshall 1644 IB
> Westfield 1616 AP
> Chantilly 1623 AP
> Robinson 1649 IB/AP
> South Lakes 1596 IB
> West Potomac 1574 AP
> Fairfax 1574 AP
> Stuart 1534 IB
> Falls Church 1512 AP
> Annandale 1510 IB
> Lee 1507 IB
> Mt. Vernon 1505 IB
> Edison 1491 IB
> Hayfield 1484 AP
>
> Why is South Lakes not supporting a County Wide
> RD, when it is apparent that there are many other
> schools that share similar demogramphics,
> declining enrollments, higher ESOL and FRM
> students, just like South Lakes?
>
> What are your thoughts on why the South Lakes
> enrollments are declining, when all of the Western
> Fairfax County schools are growing?
>
> I have heard that one of the reasons for decling
> enrollments, is that the Reston population is
> aging, and if this is true, it raises another
> question--
>
> As I look at the enrollment statistics over the
> last 10 years for South Lakes, it appears that
> enrollments for almost all races are stable or
> rising, except for Caucasian race, which is
> showing dramatic declines (over 500 less Caucasian
> students). What this is suggesting is that it is
> only the Caucasian Families and households that
> are aging. This is statistically very unlikely,
> but since I do not live in Reston, I wondered what
> your thoughts are regarding the declining
> enrollment at South Lakes.
>
> Do you feel that there is a relationship between
> the IB schools, as it relates to lower SAT scores,
> lower enrollments, higher mobility rates, higher
> FRM and ESOL students?, or is it just a
> coincindence?
>
> Is there a statistic that shows the relative SAT
> scores of those students enrolled in IB Diploma
> and IB classes, compared to the SAT scores of
> those students who are enrolled in the General
> Edcucation courses?
>
> I and many other interested parents are trying to
> understand what South Lakes realy wants in their
> school.
>
> Does South Lakes want to be perceived as a
> mainstream HS, on par with Oakton, Langley,
> Madison, Chantilly as it relates to Sports, SAT
> scores, etc.? If so, it would seem that South
> Lakes would need to drop IB, and go back to an AP
> based school.
>
> Does South Lakes enjoy being one of the few
> schools in the County to offer the IB curriculum?
> It seems that for those few students in South
> Lakes who acheive the IB Diploma (45 students last
> year and 25 the year before), IB offers almost
> automatic entrance into top universities in the
> nation, but what about the rest of the students?
>
> I do not think a school can appeal to both the
> general ed students, and still maintain a "school
> within a school" environment that South Lakes
> currently has in place. You cannot have the
> "exclusive club of IB diploma students", and also
> attract the main stream students who will fill up
> the football roster, booster clubs etc. Those
> parents with bright, but not gifted children are
> going to gravitate towards the more main stream
> schools in the area that offer, a more balance mix
> of Academics, and the extracurricular activities,
> found at these schools.
>
> In summary, what are the benifits of the RD for
> the incoming Students who are not going to persue
> the IB Diploma?
>
> How will the incoming Freshman student who did not
> take a Language class in 7th or 8th grade be able
> to enter the IB Diploma program<
>
> Do you feel the the benifits of an IB program that
> has issued less that 100 diplomas over the last 5
> years to students in South Lakes, justifies the
> costs?
>
> Almost everything that I have read about IB leads
> me to believe that IB should be offered in an
> Acadamy type school, where parents and students
> "voluntarilly" place into the program.
>
> I have many other questions and concerns, but will
> have to save them for the SB meetings on the 30th
> and 31st.
>
> Any other South Lakes RD supporters are also
> welcome to chime in.


rolls his eyes

Maria Allen Wrote:
> You can see the online course catalogue at
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/onlinecampus/crse-cat.htm.
> FCPS contracts with Apex Learning
> www.apexlearning.com for the 15 or so AP courses....
>
> The FCPS online campus won't provide you with a
> great deal of information about the courses. If
> you are interested, go the the provider's website
> www.apexlearning.com where you can see a detailed
> syllabus for each course.

Maria has been the only poster I have noticed on this thread to use her real full name. She deserves neither insults on this thread nor harassment in the real world.

Maria, I disagree with you on some (certainly not all) issues, but I respect your contributions. Thank you for posting these sites.

Floris Parent, why don't you arrange a meeting with Bruce Butler and ask him your questions. He will give you a full and fair hearing. Visit the school and see what it will offer your children and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maria Allen Wrote:
> > You can see the online course catalogue at
> >
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/onlinecampus/crse-cat.htm.
>
> > FCPS contracts with Apex Learning
> > www.apexlearning.com for the 15 or so AP
> courses....
> >
> > The FCPS online campus won't provide you with a
> > great deal of information about the courses. If
> > you are interested, go the the provider's
> website
> > www.apexlearning.com where you can see a
> detailed
> > syllabus for each course.
>
> Maria has been the only poster I have noticed on
> this thread to use her real full name. She
> deserves neither insults on this thread nor
> harassment in the real world.
>
> Maria, I disagree with you on some (certainly not
> all) issues, but I respect your contributions.
> Thank you for posting these sites.

I agree with you Forum Reader. I too appreciate her comments.

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity (IP Logged)
Date: January 24, 2008 09:39AM


Floris Parent, why don't you arrange a meeting with Bruce Butler and ask him your questions. He will give you a full and fair hearing. Visit the school and see what it will offer your children and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

SLVerity, I have sent an email to Mr. Butler, asking him the same questions.

SLVerity Wrote:
> ... why don't you arrange a meeting
> with Bruce Butler and ask him your questions. He
> will give you a full and fair hearing. Visit the
> school and see what it will offer your children
> and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

SLV, this is not addressed just to you but to all South Lakes supporters.

Many of us HAVE visited South Lakes this school year, just as we HAVE heard what FCPS has to say about IB. Please do not take this as any sort of anti-SLHS comment, but we STILL prefer to stay where we are, and with AP.

Maria,

Thank you for providing this useful information about AP online courses, and the rules that apply to FCPS students who want to take these AP online courses. Although online courses don't work well for all students, they are sometimes the best option allowed by FCPS staff.

To other parents, why attack someone online who provides factual information that may be helpful in the future to your children, or your friends' children? Many people are unhappy about the FCPS redistricting approach. Why not use your anger more constructively, by contacting School Board members by email or otherwise, writing letters to the editor in local papers, making FOIA and other information requests, etc.?

Maria Allen Wrote:
> > You can see the online course catalogue at
> >
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/onlinecampus/crse-cat.htm.
>
> > FCPS contracts with Apex Learning
> > www.apexlearning.com for the 15 or so AP
> courses....
> >
> > The FCPS online campus won't provide you with a
> > great deal of information about the courses. If
> > you are interested, go the the provider's
> website
> > www.apexlearning.com where you can see a
> detailed
> > syllabus for each course.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> > ... why don't you arrange a meeting
> > with Bruce Butler and ask him your questions.
> He
> > will give you a full and fair hearing. Visit
> the
> > school and see what it will offer your children
> > and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
>
> SLV, this is not addressed just to you but to all
> South Lakes supporters.
>
> Many of us HAVE visited South Lakes this school
> year, just as we HAVE heard what FCPS has to say
> about IB. Please do not take this as any sort of
> anti-SLHS comment, but we STILL prefer to stay
> where we are, and with AP.


Yes exactly—I think small high schools are wonderful and these small high school communities should be proud of what they offer, not to scream for more kids! I mean asking these Floris/FoxMill/MI folks to leave their high schools with AP programs for an IB high school is too much to ask for. Again, if this RD does not go through, these folks from these communities can always pupil place their kids to SL via the open enrollment.

Those redistricted will have a say about their children's curriculum. The administration listens to the parents.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those redistricted will have a say about their
> children's curriculum. The administration listens
> to the parents.

This is true, but the kids only have 4 years in HS, and you will probably agree that any changes in curriculum will not happen in the 2008/2009 school year. What this means is that for the 1st couple of years, the first group on students brought in due to RD will be in a state of flux. This is grossly unfair. What would make more sense, would be to halt the RD now, and allow the parents and administration to work out curriculum issues "Before" bringing in students who are currently enrolled in an AP based curriculum.

I have tried to find examples in other parts of the country, where a RD was done, that brought a large group of children from an AP based pyramid, and into an IB program. I cannot find precidence for this. Do you have any case studies, in which this has occured, and if so, what was the resuting data, on such an RD.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those redistricted will have a say about their
> > children's curriculum. The administration
> listens
> > to the parents.
>
> This is true, but the kids only have 4 years in
> HS, and you will probably agree that any changes
> in curriculum will not happen in the 2008/2009
> school year. What this means is that for the 1st
> couple of years, the first group on students
> brought in due to RD will be in a state of flux.
> This is grossly unfair. What would make more
> sense, would be to halt the RD now, and allow the
> parents and administration to work out curriculum
> issues "Before" bringing in students who are
> currently enrolled in an AP based curriculum.
>
> I have tried to find examples in other parts of
> the country, where a RD was done, that brought a
> large group of children from an AP based pyramid,
> and into an IB program. I cannot find precidence
> for this. Do you have any case studies, in which
> this has occured, and if so, what was the resuting
> data, on such an RD.


Excellent points you have made, Floris Parent. I do agree with you and thanks.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those redistricted will have a say about their
> > children's curriculum. The administration
> listens
> > to the parents.
>
> This is true, but the kids only have 4 years in
> HS, and you will probably agree that any changes
> in curriculum will not happen in the 2008/2009
> school year. What this means is that for the 1st
> couple of years, the first group on students
> brought in due to RD will be in a state of flux.
> This is grossly unfair. What would make more
> sense, would be to halt the RD now, and allow the
> parents and administration to work out curriculum
> issues "Before" bringing in students who are
> currently enrolled in an AP based curriculum.
>
> I have tried to find examples in other parts of
> the country, where a RD was done, that brought a
> large group of children from an AP based pyramid,
> and into an IB program. I cannot find precidence
> for this. Do you have any case studies, in which
> this has occured, and if so, what was the resuting
> data, on such an RD.


I think your points are valid, but do keep in mind that Pre-IB courses in IB schools in 9th and 10th grade, are essentially the same as honors courses in 9th and 10th grade in AP schools, so hopefully by the time the entering freshman are juniors they will have the curriculum required for the choices you desire.

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Those redistricted will have a say about
> their
> > > children's curriculum. The administration
> > listens
> > > to the parents.
> >
> > This is true, but the kids only have 4 years in
> > HS, and you will probably agree that any
> changes
> > in curriculum will not happen in the 2008/2009
> > school year. What this means is that for the
> 1st
> > couple of years, the first group on students
> > brought in due to RD will be in a state of
> flux.
> > This is grossly unfair. What would make more
> > sense, would be to halt the RD now, and allow
> the
> > parents and administration to work out
> curriculum
> > issues "Before" bringing in students who are
> > currently enrolled in an AP based curriculum.
> >
> > I have tried to find examples in other parts of
> > the country, where a RD was done, that brought
> a
> > large group of children from an AP based
> pyramid,
> > and into an IB program. I cannot find
> precidence
> > for this. Do you have any case studies, in
> which
> > this has occured, and if so, what was the
> resuting
> > data, on such an RD.
>
>
> I think your points are valid, but do keep in mind
> that Pre-IB courses in IB schools in 9th and 10th
> grade, are essentially the same as honors courses
> in 9th and 10th grade in AP schools, so hopefully
> by the time the entering freshman are juniors they
> will have the curriculum required for the choices
> you desire.


Keep in mind that some of the courses are different as what is offered at a high school for pre ap and ib courses. For example, SL only offers one science course for pre-Ib-- pre-ib biology. Floris Parent is right, for the first couple of years these redistricted students will be in a state of flux---these courses such as maybe Chemistry pre-IB will not be offered immediately, will it?
That is the problem--many of us are questioning about--these courses..not every high school in this area will be able to offer every course students request

Just curious...

How many of you out there are Democrats against redistricting?

How many are Republicans supporting redistricting?

And will the outcome influence your vote in the next set of local elections for school board, county supervisors and the statehouse?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Fairfax HS DSA finally got his wish and FFX
> will be out of Concorde District and back in
> Liberty the year after next, replacing Stone
> Bridge which is being moved to the Northwest
> region.
>
> Another Division 6 school for the SL football team
> to lose to every year, just like Herndon. What's
> the SL football record against Herndon? 3-22
>
> Tell me again why the South Lakes Boundary Study
> Group and his craveness are so deferential toward
> Herndon.
>
> They must enjoy having their football kids being a
> homecoming cupcake for every other high school in
> the County every year.
>
> The hits just keep on coming.


Are the N. Reston areas in the HHS district where all of Herndon's football talent comes from? It's not like FHS or HHS are football powerhouses although FHS may fair much better as a Div 5 school. My knowledge of SL/Liberty District football is pretty much limited to AJ Price's youtube highlight reel but it appears that SL gets pretty good talent at the skill positions. They just need a few more of what Keith Jackson would call "big uglies who bring a looaaad whentheyhitcha!"

If this RD goes through I'll be sure to catch a SL home game next fall.

Getting ready for my three minutes of fame next week, a few tidbits from fcps.edu documents.

From the documents sent to the school board
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/agendaitem1-10-08.pdf

South Lake's non-special-ed membership is 1222. (Its actually more like 1250, I'll explain why in a minute).

In 2011-2012, South Lakes is expected to be overenrolled, with 2118 students vs. capacity of 2100. Its actually forecast to have more students than Oakton or Herndon, though those schools are sized for 10% more students. Madison is also overenrolled for that year.

This document also assumes Westfield is at 3173. Which brings us to document number two, the December enrollment stats

http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/membership/membership_2007_2008/december/web/cluster_8/monthly_membership_by_cluster_8.pdf

Which shows that South Lakes is now up to 1459 students, vs. the 1427 assumed in the figures in the document cited just above this one, and Westfield is down to 3128 students. Not huge shifts, but the redistricting changes for Westfield were not huge shifts either. If this trend persists, the South Lakes overenrollment would be higher than the current forecast.

Market forces are tending to increase enrollment at South Lakes and reducing it at Westfield. Not sure what these are, but one easy explanation is people moving from home ownership to rentals. Rentals are more common in South Lakes district than Westfield.

Of course, it could be that these forecasts are not really the right forecasts, if they don't account for people placing out of schools or otherwise not showing up.

By the way, here are the transfers for this year..82 or so out of South Lakes

WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Adjustment 4
WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL AP Program Curriculum 2
WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHODL Curriculum 1
WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1
HERNDON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Adjustment 4
HERNDON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL AP Program Curriculum 14
LANGLEY HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL AP Program Curriculum 4
LANGLEY HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Curriculum 5
LANGLEY HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Senior 1
MCLEAN HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL AP Program Curriculum 5
MCLEAN HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1
OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Adjustment 3
OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL AP Program Curriculum 3
OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Curriculum 3
OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1
OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Senior 3
FAIRFAX HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Adjustment 1
CHANTILLY HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Employee 2
CHANTILLY HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Senior 1
MADISON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Adjustment 2
MADISON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL AP Program Curriculum 16
MADISON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1
MADISON HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Moved finished Year 1
MARSHALL HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL IB Program Curriculum 1
STUART HIGH SCHOOL SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1
LAKE BRADDOCK HIGH SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1

And 50 into South Lakes.

SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL CENTREVILLE HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL CHANTILLY HIGH SCHOOL IS Program Curriculum 1
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL HERNDON HIGH SCHOOL Adjustment 1 1
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL HERNDON HIGH SCHOOL IB Program Curriculum 25
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL HERNDON HIGH SCHOOL Senior 2
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL LANGLEY HIGH SCHOOL B Program Curriculum 2
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL MADISON HIGH SCHOOL IB Program Curriculum 3
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL Adjustment 1
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL IB Program Curriculum 8
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL OAKTON HIGH SCHOOL Senior 1
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL Employee 1
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL Health/Medical 1
SOUTH LAKES HIGH SCHOOL WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL I B' Program Curriculum 3

so if 82 students placed out of south lakes and 50 placed in, thats a difference on 32 total spots at south lakes. with a capacity of 2100 and a current population of around 1400 (including special ed/MR) it is hard for me to believe that 668 students are choosing to attend private schools. there are not enough kids in the current south lakes district to fill the school. redisctricting is needed. im sorry you are upset.

Huh?

"it is hard for me to believe that 668 students are choosing to attend private schools."

That's good. Nobody else believes that, either.

THere's no particular reason to "fill" a school or not. Buildings vary in size, and districts vary in population. Very similar programs are offered at schools of different sizes. On average, high schools in Fairfax county are about 90% used, filled though most of the unused space is concentrated in a few schools.

By the time the transition period for the proposed redistricting is done circa 2012, Westfield will have almost 500 unused places, corresponding to a very recently built addition, and Oakton and Herndon will each have about 300 empty spaces. Would you suggest we redistrict at that time to fill them back up? We could help alleviate "overcrowding" at South Lakes, Madison and Langley.

OK, I get that, but what if 82 students placed out of SL and 50 placed in but 20 of the place in dropped out, while 128 of neither group were suspended, 51 expelled and another 40 or so picked up by INS, how many pupils would still be needed at South Lakes?

I take it school lets out around this time, huh?

There is a misconception that the IB program is a net win for South Lakes in terms of it enticing studentst to come to South Lakes in greater numbers than they transfer out for other reasons. Jane Strauss on the school board said as much at the school board work session a week ago Monday, and similar claims have appear on the SLPTSA web site.

In fact, more kids place out of South Lakes for AP than place in for IB, plus a noticable number place out for other reasons. One was to help SL enrollment would be to minize the number of kids in the district who end up going someplace else. That's not the same as redistricting, but it would make sense to address both issues so that we don't just increase the number of kids placing out, missing out on transportation, not being with their neighbors, etc.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I take it school lets out around this time, huh?
>
> There is a misconception that the IB program is a
> net win for South Lakes in terms of it enticing
> studentst to come to South Lakes in greater
> numbers than they transfer out for other reasons.
> Jane Strauss on the school board said as much at
> the school board work session a week ago Monday,
> and similar claims have appear on the SLPTSA web
> site.
>
> In fact, more kids place out of South Lakes for AP
> than place in for IB, plus a noticable number
> place out for other reasons. One was to help SL
> enrollment would be to minize the number of kids
> in the district who end up going someplace else.
> That's not the same as redistricting, but it would
> make sense to address both issues so that we don't
> just increase the number of kids placing out,
> missing out on transportation, not being with
> their neighbors, etc.


In other words, the redistricting should be on hold until the issues have been addressed, it is not fair to thrust "more" kids from targeted communities to SL without addressing all the issues on the table and then coming up with solutions before real redistricting can be done....reasonably. After all we only have these historical facts of placing out for AP or placing in for IB and we do not know the actual number of members coming to SL if the redistricting goes through starting next fall.

Pollster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious...
>
> How many of you out there are Democrats against
> redistricting?
>
> How many are Republicans supporting redistricting?
>
>
> And will the outcome influence your vote in the
> next set of local elections for school board,
> county supervisors and the statehouse?
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

"The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too." DAN Q

I am also wondering--I know I asked in an earlier post if anybody from Floris or Fox Mill or Madison Island knew they were going to be targeted from 2 years ago and someone from Floris answered that Stu held a meeting in the Floris area only to result in a shouting match. Has there been any true documentation of the SL community or the SL PTA inviting these targeted communities for dialogue and feedback about the possibility of being redistricted to their school such as maybe an open house at their school or what? I feel these targeted communities were not given true opportunity for feedback before the boundary study was carried out..am I correct or not?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those redistricted will have a say about their
> children's curriculum. The administration listens
> to the parents.

If only that were true.

Your youngest left SL at the end of Butler's first year so, I don't know how you can make this assertion except by hearsay.

I have two kids still at SL and I and many other parents have a distinctly different experience of the extent to which any SL administrator listens to parents at SL.

If this redistricting process results in heightened attentiveness and responsiveness to parents concerns about curriculum and other matters, then something good will have come of it but it is not yet an accomplished fact.

To find the true reason for choosing fox mill and a carved up portion of floris to go to SL, you will have to look at last years election results in detail. These areas closely match the areas that voted against Stu Gibson. This is Stu Gibson now getting back at those who voted against him. If you think this is far fetched remember he even used a child to get back at his opponent in the last elections.

AFMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are the N. Reston areas in the HHS district where all of Herndon's football
> talent comes from?

Actually a disproportionate portion of all HHS's athletes, band members and, most importantly, largest booster contributors come from North Pointe. This is one of the few comprehensible reasons I've heard for HHS PTA's insistence on keeping Armstrong and Aldrin away from SL.

> It's not like FHS or HHS are football powerhouses

HHS football has been in the playoffs far more often than SL.

Even if it's not a football power, it is, at worst, just a rung below and several rungs above where SL has been for the last 5 years.

> although FHS may fair much better as a Div 5 school.

FHS will still be a Division 6 football team after it rejoins Liberty District unless populations of other schools change dramatically so that FHS falls to the bottom half of Northern Region high schools by size of student body.

> My knowledge of SL/Liberty District football is pretty much limited to AJ
> Price's youtube highlight reel but it appears that SL gets pretty good talent at > the skill positions. They just need a few more of what Keith Jackson would
> call "big uglies who bring a looaaad whentheyhitcha!"

SL has had a few of the skills players and the "big uglies," just not enough and not nearly adequate coaching for 5 years.

> If this RD goes through I'll be sure to catch a SL home game next fall.

Get there early while it's still a close score.

SLVerity Wrote:

Those redistricted will have a say about their children's curriculum. The administration listens to the parents.

___________________

11:30:07

A student wrote :

I've been following this issue very closely, and even though what the county has recently proposed says it 'assumes grandfathering of all current students at their high schools', I'm skeptical to that.

Clarifier responded:

This is, in fact, going to happen. Everyone who has been in touch with board members know this, and its stated in board documents. Nothing to fear.
____________________

The sell job.

Thomas More Wrote:

>
> Your youngest left SL at the end of Butler's first
> year so, I don't know how you can make this
> assertion except by hearsay.
>

You are incorrect. My youngest graduated last year, at the end of Butler's second year. Butler was extremely responsive to every request that we made of him.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am also wondering--I know I asked in an earlier
> post if anybody from Floris or Fox Mill or Madison
> Island knew they were going to be targeted from 2
> years ago and someone from Floris answered that
> Stu held a meeting in the Floris area only to
> result in a shouting match. Has there been any
> true documentation of the SL community or the SL
> PTA inviting these targeted communities for
> dialogue and feedback about the possibility of
> being redistricted to their school such as maybe
> an open house at their school or what? I feel
> these targeted communities were not given true
> opportunity for feedback before the boundary study
> was carried out..am I correct or not?


I recall Stu meeting with the Fox Mill PTA about a year ago but it could have been a part of the same whirlwind tour to sell redistricting to potentially impacted communities. I don't know if it was as bad as the floris meeting but it was pretty bad. He held up one of those "SL is a ghetto infested w/gang violence and a loser IB program" flyers distributed outside beforehand and warned cryptically, "be careful what you say about someone else's school."

Well, obviously nobody listened then and still aren't now and here we are :0 My wife came away from that meeting kind of liking Stu, I felt sorry for him that night although I thought him somewhat of a typical politician (heavy spin/sell on IB).

A few SL people may have attended that meeting but I don't recall any effort by them to "reach out" to us. I wouldn't have expected it either based on the rather hostile reception their school was given. That's my recollection of the pre-RD discussion on the matter, I won't be feeding any trolls comments on this post.

Just to clairfy my above post, the FM PTA set up the meeting but it was open for anyone to attend which they did (packed caffeteria). I didn't want to give the impression that the FM PTA itself was responsible for the boorish behavior.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> >
> > Your youngest left SL at the end of Butler's
> first
> > year so, I don't know how you can make this
> > assertion except by hearsay.
> >
>
> You are incorrect. My youngest graduated last
> year, at the end of Butler's second year. Butler
> was extremely responsive to every request that we
> made of him.

Thank you for that correction.

You are also relatively unique and quite lucky to receive that responsiveness from Mr. Butler.

It will be a wonderful day when all SL parents share your experience. Unfortunately that day has not arrived.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2008 10:21PM by Thomas More.

Not that it should be any surprise to anyone but the School Board just approved the contract to build Coopermine. Typically, Stu got the land use history of the area wrong, again.

The staff just showed a video. An FCPS employee's receiving her 15 minutes of fame and had the title "instructional coach". What is that?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2008 10:47PM by Thomas More.

AFMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am also wondering--I know I asked in an
> earlier
> > post if anybody from Floris or Fox Mill or
> Madison
> > Island knew they were going to be targeted from
> 2
> > years ago and someone from Floris answered that
> > Stu held a meeting in the Floris area only to
> > result in a shouting match. Has there been any
> > true documentation of the SL community or the
> SL
> > PTA inviting these targeted communities for
> > dialogue and feedback about the possibility of
> > being redistricted to their school such as
> maybe
> > an open house at their school or what? I feel
> > these targeted communities were not given true
> > opportunity for feedback before the boundary
> study
> > was carried out..am I correct or not?
>
>
> I recall Stu meeting with the Fox Mill PTA about a
> year ago but it could have been a part of the same
> whirlwind tour to sell redistricting to
> potentially impacted communities. I don't know if
> it was as bad as the floris meeting but it was
> pretty bad. He held up one of those "SL is a
> ghetto infested w/gang violence and a loser IB
> program" flyers distributed outside beforehand and
> warned cryptically, "be careful what you say about
> someone else's school."
>
> Well, obviously nobody listened then and still
> aren't now and here we are :0 My wife came away
> from that meeting kind of liking Stu, I felt sorry
> for him that night although I thought him somewhat
> of a typical politician (heavy spin/sell on IB).
>
>
> A few SL people may have attended that meeting but
> I don't recall any effort by them to "reach out"
> to us. I wouldn't have expected it either based
> on the rather hostile reception their school was
> given. That's my recollection of the pre-RD
> discussion on the matter, I won't be feeding any
> trolls comments on this post.


Ok, thanks AFMD..--your recollection of what happened at the FM PTA meeting--Stu did not exactly make anybody from FM welcome into his idea of RD to his school starting out with fanning the flyer. It should be interesting to see how the public hearings turn out.

Thomas, perhaps yours is the unique experience.

FYI -

There are many current and future SL parents who are not exactly thrilled with the IB program for various reasons. While they may appreciate the rigor of the program, they are interested in adding AP classes and possibly becoming an AP school, IF this is what the SL community wants. It's not like PTSA voted and CHOSE IB. It was thrust upon them.

Believe this - a large contingent of parents will advocate for parental input into curriculum.

So far, board members have been most interested in parents opinions regarding IB vs AP curriculum, at least the board members I've met.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, perhaps yours is the unique experience.

Based on too many conversations with too many parents, it sadly is not.

Hopefully, that will change.

Prior to the IB program, did SL offer AP courses?

Future SL parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So far, board members have been most interested in parents opinions regarding IB
> vs AP curriculum, at least the board members I've met.

Care to share which ones those would be?

I've advocated multiple times on this forum that the parents of the elementary schools feeding SL have presentations made for their benefit of the advantages and limitations of both IB and AP and then have a plebicite of those parents with the School Board abiding by the result.

I focus on the elementary school because any change would take several years to phase into effect so that by the time the plebicite was adopted the junior high kids would already be at SL.

Sadly, or maybe tellingly, not one IB advocate has accepted this proposal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2008 12:07AM by Thomas More.

Info needed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prior to the IB program, did SL offer AP courses?

Yes

> Keep in mind that some of the courses are
> different as what is offered at a high school for
> pre ap and ib courses. For example, SL only
> offers one science course for pre-Ib-- pre-ib
> biology. Floris Parent is right, for the first
> couple of years these redistricted students will
> be in a state of flux---these courses such as
> maybe Chemistry pre-IB will not be offered
> immediately, will it?
> That is the problem--many of us are questioning
> about--these courses..not every high school in
> this area will be able to offer every course
> students request

Why does anyone think that the schools will listen to what the parents want? When has that happened? Many parents fought hard to keep AP at South Lakes, but that didn't matter, they got IB. The schools that IB didn't necessarily want IB, it was simply thrust upon them. Many parents in the county have wanted another school like TJ for those GT students who excel in the Humanities. It hasn't happened. FCPS administration seems to think that they know best, much more than the parents. I would be shocked if parents have any influence over the courses that are taught at South Lakes, much less which program, IB or AP. Look at what they chosen to offer next year. Did ANY parent EVER ask for AP Human Geography? Nope. Not a one. Too bad, that's the course you will get. It's not about the students, or the parents, it's about what staff wants to offer.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Future SL parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So far, board members have been most interested
> in parents opinions regarding IB
> > vs AP curriculum, at least the board members
> I've met.
>
> Care to share which ones those would be?
>
> I've advocated multiple times on this forum that
> the parents of the elementary schools feeding SL
> have presentations made for their benefit of the
> advantages and limitations of both IB and AP and
> then have a plebicite of those parents with the
> School Board abiding by the result.
>
> I focus on the elementary school because any
> change would take several years to phase into
> effect so that by the time the plebicite was
> adopted the junior high kids would already be at
> SL.
>
> Sadly, or maybe tellingly, not one IB advocate has
> accepted this proposal.

SL PTSA parents have met with several school board members. Weren't all SL parents invited to attend those meetings? I assumed that they were. They have met with Tina Hone, Jim Raney, Phil N-E, and soon meet with Janie Strauss and Brad Center. I'm sure they will schedule more such meetings before the final vote.

When did our schools ever let the community decide anything? We wouldn't have that silly Everyday Math if parents had any say. We would have more reading, writing, real math, and real history, and less artsy fartsy stuff, if parents had any say. They don't.

Info needed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prior to the IB program, did SL offer AP courses?

Yes, but those schools that had IB thrust upon them had their AP classes removed. Each high school must have one program or the other. FCPS decided which schools would have IB. Woodson fought against it, hard, for two years, and eventually won and got their AP program restored. After that, FCPS stopped expanding the IB program, knowing that the other good high schools would also fight against it.

Pollster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious...
>
> How many of you out there are Democrats against
> redistricting?
>
> How many are Republicans supporting redistricting?
>
>
> And will the outcome influence your vote in the
> next set of local elections for school board,
> county supervisors and the statehouse?

Hunter Mill district has republicans? Really? who knew?!

Of course this won't change the mind of any democrat. They MUST vote for the party, regardless. Ideology is very important, Thomas More aside.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not that it should be any surprise to anyone but
> the School Board just approved the contract to
> build Coopermine. Typically, Stu got the land use
> history of the area wrong, again.
>
> The staff just showed a video. An FCPS employee's
> receiving her 15 minutes of fame and had the title
> "instructional coach". What is that?

Good question. What the heck is that? Have they run out of names to call people in the ever expanding bureaucracy?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Future SL parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > So far, board members have been most
> interested
> > in parents opinions regarding IB
> > > vs AP curriculum, at least the board members
> > I've met.
> >
> > Care to share which ones those would be?
> >
> > I've advocated multiple times on this forum
> that
> > the parents of the elementary schools feeding
> SL
> > have presentations made for their benefit of
> the
> > advantages and limitations of both IB and AP
> and
> > then have a plebicite of those parents with the
> > School Board abiding by the result.
> >
> > I focus on the elementary school because any
> > change would take several years to phase into
> > effect so that by the time the plebicite was
> > adopted the junior high kids would already be
> at
> > SL.
> >
> > Sadly, or maybe tellingly, not one IB advocate
> has
> > accepted this proposal.
>
> SL PTSA parents have met with several school board
> members. Weren't all SL parents invited to attend
> those meetings? I assumed that they were. They
> have met with Tina Hone, Jim Raney, Phil N-E, and
> soon meet with Janie Strauss and Brad Center. I'm
> sure they will schedule more such meetings before
> the final vote.
>
> When did our schools ever let the community decide
> anything? We wouldn't have that silly Everyday
> Math if parents had any say. We would have more
> reading, writing, real math, and real history, and
> less artsy fartsy stuff, if parents had any say.
> They don't.


These SL PTA parents have met with sb members and several more meetings to come--sounds like they have been talking about how to make sure the RD goes through with these affected communities despite ugly meetings from two years ago from these communities..it is like the SL PTA and Stu do not care about how F/FM/MI feel? Thrusting them to an IB school is too much to ask for and frankly, I do not see how this RD would be successful if it goes through.

FYI

Beware of Jack Dale and the FCPS school Board. After more then twenty meetings less then two years ago regarding boundary decisions for the then new SCSS, They indicated that they need to do another boundary study due the fact that they F--- upped the first time. When will this incompetence end?


SCHOOL BOARD AND ALL FCPS OFFICIALS

DO YOU REMEMBER THE FOLLOWING ACTIONS BY YOU?

And now you want to do a new boundary study for South County due to over capacity at SCSS.

Fairfax County
By Catherine Belter
Source: Times Community Newspapers
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 16 2005
UPDATED MONDAY, JUNE 4 2007

To my dismay, the Fairfax County School Board last Thursday managed in a single night to (1) cause the new South County school to be more overcrowded than it needs to be; (2) create underutilized capacity at Hayfield Secondary School and (3) most significantly, add an additional 160 students (phased in at 40 students per year) to an existing overcrowded situation at West Springfield High School.

In short, we built a new school and then, by the board's own ill-advised actions, caused overcrowding and underutilization and severely upset the West Springfield community.

How did these anomalous results occur? The process began when Daniel Storck, the Mount Vernon District representative, decided to support the desires of the Mason Neck community. He offered to amend the staff's recommended boundaries to add the Mason Neck community to the South County school, thereby removing these students from Hayfield Secondary School.

At the same time, Mr. Storck was faced with a competing and more valid claim for admission to the South County school by his constituents in the South Hunt Valley community (a community significantly closer to the new school than Mason Neck). He responded to this community's desires not by offering to champion the same cause of seeking to add them to the South County school but rather by offering to move them from Lee High School to West Springfield High School.

The West Springfield area had never been included in the study area for the South County school. Nevertheless, if Mason Neck was to be admitted to South County, the result of doing nothing for South Hunt Valley would be too patently unfair.

Further underlying the flawed nature of the process, Mr. Storck never consulted with the principal of West Springfield or otherwise alerted that community. He first alerted me to his intentions in late December, long after the public process had begun.

At my urging, and after I consulted with the West Springfield principal and the PTA president, the West Springfield community was alerted to Mr. Stork's intentions. A community meeting was hastily arranged and held on Jan. 24. At the meeting a number of parents voiced their concerns over the potential addition of 160 more students from South Hunt Valley to the already overcrowded situation at West Springfield.

This community meeting was followed immediately by a public hearing on Jan. 25, just two days before the board took up the new South County boundaries at its Jan. 27 public meeting.

I had hoped and expected that, at that meeting, the board as a whole would not allow its processes to be corrupted merely to make the two communities of Mason Neck and South Hunt Valley happy. At the board meeting, the motion by Mr. Storck to add the Mason Neck community passed.

Anticipating that Mr. Storck would try to assuage his constituents in South Hunt Valley by moving them into West Springfield, I then tried, with the assistance of school board representative Stu Gibson (Reston) and Kathy Smith (Centreville) to persuade the board to alleviate the unfairness by also adding South Hunt Valley to the South County school instead of West Springfield.

In the same motion, we included a provision advancing funds for the new middle school at the site. We did this since it was obvious that the new middle school would be needed at an earlier date as a result of the current population to be included in the new school as now exacerbated by the addition of the Mason Neck community. The board voted down this effort.

At this point, Mr. Storck, as anticipated, moved to add the South Hunt Valley community to West Springfield High School.

I argued that no one representative should be allowed to initiate action to affect boundaries of a school (West Springfield) not in a community that person represented and not without a more formal process with more adequate notice than what had been offered in connection with the South County study process. I also argued that there was no basis to add 160 students to an already overcrowded school.

The board rejected these arguments and voted to add the South Hunt Valley community to West Springfield High School. This action was done with minimal notice to the public advising them that the process had been expanded to potentially include communities outside the boundaries of the study area. This was unfair, lacking in adequate due process and resulted in the anomalous detrimental results described.

I understand that some of my colleagues may defend these results in the name of providing "community" schools-i.e., whole communities going to the closest school and retaining the "community" spirit represented by keeping feeder intermediate school populations together in high school. I disagree with their judgments.

In the end, the board alleviated a split feeder situation for South Hunt Valley but created a new split feeder situation for students in Gunston Elementary. The board made two small communities happy at the cost of adversely impacting the educational situation of thousands of other students and caused significant hard feelings among the West Springfield community-a community that should never have been impacted in the first place since it was not in the study area and was already overcrowded.

The board needs to carefully review these results and its processes. I will do my best to implement the board's final actions in the least disruptive fashion. But, at a minimum, this board needs to explain to the West Springfield community why their high school should suffer additional significant overcrowding merely because we built a new school.

I feel compelled to publicly express my disagreement with the board's judgments and voice my objection to the process by which these results have occurred.

Sounds like you did it wrong then. If you would have done it right then, maybe you would not be in the over capacity at SCSS.

Was anyone able to attend the SB meeting yesterday? I heard that the SB voted to move forward with a new middle school in the South County area, rather than RD to other middle schools in the area that have excess capacity.

I am interested to hear any feedback regarding West County RD.

Madison was not included in the boundary study because many Madison parents, who are in the Hunter Mill District, would have voted Stu out. So it sounds like Vienna colluded with Stu to remain out of the Boundary Study, just as Langley colluded with Janie to remain safe. Lots of dirty politics going on if you ask me. Why does the Vienna contingent of Hunter Mill keeps voting Stu in? The answer is in plain sight.

OBSERVER Wrote:
> ...If you would
> have done it right then, maybe you would not be in
> the over capacity at SCSS.

Others have notice Woodson is overcrowded and adjacent to several schools with excess space. I looked up the last time students were added to Woodson. Tessie Wilson, who has Woodson in her District, voted against it, as did Stu Gibson, yet it passed anyway. Here are some excerpts:

SCHOOL BOARD Regular Meeting No. 14 - 19 February 21, 2002
Mrs. Belter moved, and Mr. Frye seconded, 2) that the School Board approve additional boundary adjustments, effective for the 2002-2003 school year, involving the following schools: Frost and Lanier Middle Schools, and Fairfax and Woodson High Schools, as detailed in the agenda item. [Clerk’s note: Recommendation two of the agenda item.]

Discussion progressed as follows: … she had requested that these students be “grandfathered” and that the Superintendent allow family-sensitive pupil placements for siblings of students who were currently at Lanier and Fairfax, which had been done occasionally during previous boundary adjustments; … that everyone recognized that ideally students would all move from elementary school to the same middle school ... she was disappointed to hear from the Woodson and Frost PTAs that they did not want these students moved to their schools, … (Belter);

that she did not support the staff recommendation and could not believe that it was before the Board again; that the recommendation had been turned down first as part of the Westfield boundary adjustment in 1999, then turned down as an administrative adjustment in 2000, and voted down by this entire Board in 2001; that as far as she could tell there had been no change in the community’s views and it remained clearly divided on the issue; …, as Mr. Gibson stated, people should be able to rely on what they are told by the school system, and that Mrs. Belter had stated that parents should be able to believe in the process; … that the Board’s policy stated “Adjustments shall be made without respect to magisterial districts and shall not affect the same occupied dwelling any more often than once every three years”; … she thanked staff and Dr. Domenech for the grandfathering provisions included in the staff proposal; that if the recommendation passed, she would insist that those provisions be honored and that liberal pupil placements be allowed where siblings would be split between two pyramids after the change took place; that the grandfathering would require two additional buses, at a time when the system already faced a severe bus driver shortage and a budget that would require every bit of finesse the Board could exert, and she wondered whether they really wanted to do this; that she was concerned about setting precedents with which the Board would have to live for years to come and that she was concerned that the grandfathering provision was being offered to overcome the lack of consensus that existed in the community and to enable the motion to pass, which was unfortunate; and that she urged her colleagues to vote against the motion on the issues involved and not on whether the community has been appeased (Wilson).

…; that she did not like the process this community had used because it violated School Board policy that said no occupied dwelling would be involved in boundary considerations more often than once every three years; that she wondered how citizens could have faith in the system and achieve stability if the Board did not follow through on its policy; … (Thompson);

… a promise had been made that the students would eventually be returned to Robinson; that she felt the moral of this story for the school system was not to make promises you might not be able to keep; …; (Brickner);

… that with the middle school approach, it was expected that elementary and middle school teachers would work together to ensure curriculum flow and communication between the two levels; that … she had been more persuaded this time because of the partnership that was needed between elementary and middle school teachers; …; that her main concern was the strength of the curriculum and flow between grade levels, … (Strauss);

..; that he wondered, however, if it wouldn’t be better just to take the map and draw circles around the schools, cutting down on buses needed; … (Wansley [Student rep]).

The motion to approve additional boundary adjustments, effective for the 2002-2003 school year, involving the following schools: Frost and Lanier Middle Schools, and Fairfax and Woodson High Schools, as detailed in the agenda item, passed 7-3, with Mrs. Belter, Mrs. Brickner, Mrs. Castro, Mr. Frye, Mrs. Heastie, Mrs. Strauss, and Mrs. Thompson voting “aye”; with Mr. Braunlich, Mr. Gibson, and Mrs. Wilson voting “nay”; with Mrs. Kory absent; and with the Sully District seat vacant.

Hmm, just curious, does anybody think ALL the 12 sb members will confer for the Feb 28 final vote on the West County RD?

Party affiliation (Democrat) will trump all. I would bet on it.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was anyone able to attend the SB meeting
> yesterday? I heard that the SB voted to move
> forward with a new middle school in the South
> County area, rather than RD to other middle
> schools in the area that have excess capacity.
>
> I am interested to hear any feedback regarding
> West County RD.

I watched that portion of the meeting on TV and Stu Gibson was heroic. Yes-heroes can be flawed and so can their actions. If it wasn't for Stu everyone else would have rolled over with the South County Middle School being built starting tomorrow bumping every other project in this county. That includes Coppermine. Stu also was the only one with the sense to inquire about reducing the size of the new Glasgow. Would Stu send Aldrin to South Lakes? Would he chnage the Langley boundary? My guess is he would but Strauss is the real problem.

samggee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Party affiliation (Democrat) will trump all. I
> would bet on it.

South County is in the jurisdiction of one of the two Republicans on the Board. Are you saying the ten Democrats will vote against her unneeded South County Middle School?

I was referring to the West county redistricting not to South County. Please follow the order of posts unless you just want to spar for no reason.

I was at the Fox Mill meeting a year ago and it was a joke. There were over 200 people and Kathy Smith only made 50 handouts - she told us, "I just didn't think there'd be this much interest." Really?

You think we don't care about our kids education because we live in Fox Mill, the least expensive neighborhood in OHS? News Flash: We have enough $$ not to have to accept SL being shoved down our throats. Most of my friends and neighbors have no intention of handing their kids over to SL so in the end the numbers will be vastly different from FME than as projected.


When asked if the middle school would change, Stu said, "No."
When asked how he would vote if the vote were held tomorrow, he said, "I cannot possibly tell you that now." People were furious, there was alot of booing and comments being yelled out. Stu later told a friend of mine that he was completely caught off guard, and had no idea Fox Mill would be so upset.

HOW COULD HE NOT KNOW THAT?????? He knew in 2003 that Aldrin and Armstrong would be upset if they were sent to SL - why did he think that FME would not be upset? Here it is folks: $$$$$$$ (Those blue collar workers don't care where their kids go to school....)

samggee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was referring to the West county redistricting
> not to South County. Please follow the order of
> posts unless you just want to spar for no reason.

Nope, not looking for a fight, just a clarification of what you wrote.

[Quoting an entire previous post can get WAY too long, but I find it helps me, at least, to follow the thread if at least a brief portion is quoted so we all know what the response refers to.]

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samggee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Party affiliation (Democrat) will trump all. I
> > would bet on it.
>
> South County is in the jurisdiction of one of the
> two Republicans on the Board. Are you saying the
> ten Democrats will vote against her unneeded South
> County Middle School?

Storck is a dem and so are Hyland and Connelly [called the entire South County a Legacy]. They also plan to give along with the school a lot of other stuff non-school based. That area will have the only riding facility, the 2 [and only] indoor field houses, multiple golf. BRAC numbers might be 2900 kids- who will live in Prince William? This school is for 400 kids with Fairfax Station addresses from expensive subdivisions who refuse lake braddock. It's like the Langley addition only a WHOLE SCHOOL.

fmparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at the Fox Mill meeting a year ago and it
> was a joke. There were over 200 people and Kathy
> Smith only made 50 handouts - she told us, "I just
> didn't think there'd be this much interest."
> Really?
>
> You think we don't care about our kids education
> because we live in Fox Mill, the least expensive
> neighborhood in OHS? News Flash: We have enough $$
> not to have to accept SL being shoved down our
> throats. Most of my friends and neighbors have no
> intention of handing their kids over to SL so in
> the end the numbers will be vastly different from
> FME than as projected.
>
>
> When asked if the middle school would change, Stu
> said, "No."
> When asked how he would vote if the vote were held
> tomorrow, he said, "I cannot possibly tell you
> that now." People were furious, there was alot of
> booing and comments being yelled out. Stu later
> told a friend of mine that he was completely
> caught off guard, and had no idea Fox Mill would
> be so upset.
>
> HOW COULD HE NOT KNOW THAT?????? He knew in 2003
> that Aldrin and Armstrong would be upset if they
> were sent to SL - why did he think that FME would
> not be upset? Here it is folks: $$$$$$$ (Those
> blue collar workers don't care where their kids go
> to school....)


That is what I suspected about FM..I have noticed quite a number of house sales in the FM area lately..I don't know how well these sales are turning out in this housing market, but I will ask my realtor to pull up a comp on FM house sales for the last two years..I am sure there is a minority of FM folks who do not mind sending their kids to SL, but a MAJORITY, heck, no..you are talking over 1,100 + homes of the FM community. Stupid what Stu has done and Smith handing out only 50 flyers thinking that there wouldn't be any interest??

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samggee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was referring to the West county
> redistricting
> > not to South County. Please follow the order of
> > posts unless you just want to spar for no
> reason.
>
> Nope, not looking for a fight, just a
> clarification of what you wrote.
>
>You are right, I should have quoted the post.

No homes have sold in FME since September; there have been closings since then, but no new sales. What do you think this has to do with? People who think that home sales and prices have nothing to do with school districts are complete idiots. Take what you what would realistically get now in this down market and subtract $50K for homes 300-500K, and subtract $75K for 500-700K and that's what you will be left with in Fox Mill if it is redistricted to South Lakes.

fmparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No homes have sold in FME since September; there
> have been closings since then, but no new sales.
> What do you think this has to do with? People who
> think that home sales and prices have nothing to
> do with school districts are complete idiots.
> Take what you what would realistically get now in
> this down market and subtract $50K for homes
> 300-500K, and subtract $75K for 500-700K and
> that's what you will be left with in Fox Mill if
> it is redistricted to South Lakes.

A house on my street just sold so I know at least one FME house that's sold since Sept. Ever since the market downturn there has been a lot of inventory in FME though. I agree that school districts are a important factor in property values but I think the local ES carries more weight than the HS and FMES is as good as it gets in Fx Co. Even if RD causes prices to drop further in FME, any new family moving in is going to have to have good credit so I doubt FMES will get an influx of poor students. I wouldn't sell my house anyway but I don't think it would be wise to do so as a result of RD.