A policy is county wide. An individual principal cannot change or make up his own policy. If he does try to do that, he is over ridden at the next level when his decision is appeal. You can definitely pupil place for reasons other than AP or IB.

Go to this page:
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

On the right of that page click on 'reports to the school board' then scroll down to:

* October 24, 2007 - 2007-2008 High School Student Assignment (Pupil Placement) Data

You can see all the reasons that are used for pupil placements and just how common it is, even at over crowded schools like Langley.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no dog in this hunt. But you are correct,
> I would not have sent my children to South Lakes,
> for many reasons, IB being the biggest reason.
> They would have hated it. They're boys. They
> wanted more more math, science, and computer
> science. If we wanted to live in Reston and go to
> South Lakes, we would have bought a home there.
> We didn't make that choice. Surely you support
> choice.
>
> I am here because I would like FCPS to fix South
> Lakes for all the students who are already there,
> AND because I support parental choice in schools,
> rather than forced busing.


So your here 24/7 railing against the gorram libruls on the school board deciding what is best for other peoples kids and yet your here because you feel it's up to you to support school choice for a community you are not a part of? Why would you possibly care and what business is it of yours to "fix" SL if you aren't living in a current SL district or FM/Floris?

Look up the test scores for Floris ES and Fox Mill ES if you haven't already. Despite your lack of invovement with them they compare favorably with any district in the county and neither community needs you to speak on their behalf. Go find another windmill to charge!

It must really suck to be you, your kids or your spouse (current or ex).

Yeah, I support the people's right to decide where they go to school. I would also like to see something done to help children in FCPS who aren't being educated, like those at Dogwood and Lake Anne.

Bummer, isn't it? You'll just have to find a way to cope.

"They would have hated it. They're boys. They wanted more more math, science, and computer science."

Hmmm, I know many,many masculine males who majored in liberal arts and avoided these subject areas like the plague! I also know a bevy of feminine women who excelled in these three subjects.


Not a valid argument.

Kennedy: Chief, did you read my concurrence in the Seattle case?

Warren: Yes and I think you’re a weenie.

Kennedy: Chief, what do you mean? Racial balancing isn't a compelling state issue. So, I had to concur, right. But, I left the door open for schools to use race as a means to achieve diversity. I thought that was good.

Warren: Yes, the Seattle case was about racial balancing and the decision, in my opinion, was correct. You agreed, but disagreed. (weenie)

In Brown v. Board of Education, we decided that state laws which allowed for segregated public educational facilities were inherently unequal and represented a violation of the 14th Amendment. We overturned Plessy vs. Ferguson.

The Seattle case did not concern state sanctioned segregation but rather with the state deciding how many of each race should attend a certain school.

Kennedy: Chief, isn’t it a good thing to spread the races around? In Fairfax County, some very wise leaders have decided to move many white children from affluent neighborhoods to a school with many poor black kids who live in government subsidized housing projects. Doesn’t this help desegregate our schools?

Warren: No, son, that is just an attempt by the government to cover up its own failures.

Stereotype Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "They would have hated it. They're boys. They
> wanted more more math, science, and computer
> science."
>
> Hmmm, I know many,many masculine males who majored
> in liberal arts and avoided these subject areas
> like the plague! I also know a bevy of feminine
> women who excelled in these three subjects.
>
>
> Not a valid argument.

Of course it is. Your feminine friends would also have hated South Lakes.

^^^^So don't say it's boys that aren't intellectually capable of excelling in an IB program.

AFMD in its own words,

"So your here 24/7 railing against the gorram libruls on the school board deciding what is best for other peoples kids and yet your here because you feel it's up to you to support school choice for a community you are not a part of? Why would you possibly care and what business is it of yours to "fix" SL if you aren't living in a current SL district or FM/Floris?

Look up the test scores for Floris ES and Fox Mill ES if you haven't already. Despite your lack of invovement with them they compare favorably with any district in the county and neither community needs you to speak on their behalf. Go find another windmill to charge!"
______________________________________________

We, at central authority, have decided to transport you to a bughouse 'cause you're so gorram full of byphodine. A lobotomy has been ordered.

Stereotype typed:

"So don't say it's boys that aren't intellectually capable of excelling in an IB program."

^^^^^^^^ Neen didn't say that.

You might have to join AFMD in the bughouse for a little operation.

Dumbledore.........

Stephanie, you are wise for someone so young. She who shall not be named does not have children who will be attending South Lakes. She feigns interest in education for all students, but has tried very hard on this site to subvert any efforts to help South Lakes. For example, she just fanned the flames of prejudice against South Lakes, by scaring parents into thinking the County will not allow grandfathering.


Dumbledore... I guess you want us to know you're gay. Why is that? No one cares.

^^^^^^^^ Hey, what's going on here?

I don't need a lobotomy.

I don't even know AFMD or that gorram idiot, Dumbledore. And, I'm not gay. Let me out of here. I take back what I typed.

Help!

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A policy is county wide. An individual principal
> cannot change or make up his own policy. If he
> does try to do that, he is over ridden at the next
> level when his decision is appeal. You can
> definitely pupil place for reasons other than AP
> or IB.
>
> Go to this page:
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
> blic?OpenFrameSet
>
> On the right of that page click on 'reports to the
> school board' then scroll down to:
>
> * October 24, 2007 - 2007-2008 High School
> Student Assignment (Pupil Placement) Data
>
> You can see all the reasons that are used for
> pupil placements and just how common it is, even
> at over crowded schools like Langley.


Yep, I just read the report on high school student assignment data--one of the reasons they stated was "curriculum" so yes it can be done. Not sure why a base school principal would deny the transfer even if the transfer was a very legitimate one, what could the reasons be for denial if anybody can comment?

Observer Wrote:
> Though, ALS as a foreign language sequence could
> be a reason. But to reiterate, I know it
> happened. The request was denied despite being a
> curricular request, and despite space being
> available.

ALS? ASL?

Is it true that "student placement" is only allowed on a year to year basis?
If this is true then how can any freshman be "placed" if no AP courses are offered to freshman?

Curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it true that "student placement" is only
> allowed on a year to year basis?
> If this is true then how can any freshman be
> "placed" if no AP courses are offered to freshman?

Good point. For those students they could use the Boundary Adjustment one that is offered on a short term basis with guidelines. Like an example I gave earlier involving MS's. For three years after part of Poe went to Glasgow folks were allowed to request Poe since Glasgow had a Modified year. After three years that was no longer a valid reason for the request.

For Neen and others...curricular reasons are a valid request, I never said they weren't. The boarddocs do show that that is a valid request.

My point is they can deny it. It has been done, even with valid requests. Why I don't know. But both principals do have to sign off. Why would they have a place on the form for "reason for denial"? If, as you seem to feel, it is automatic since it is one of the valid reasons to request a change?

The secretaries at the HS's guide people on the process, and won't even accept the form if it isn't one of the reasons listed for requests, they will tell parents, no, pick one of these reasons and come back. Perhaps you can chat with them to find out the reasons why denials are made. Some principals, particularly at the base school, will sign off no matter what, afterall they don't want a family denied the request thinking they are the reason...would make for a tough year, but the accepting principal may have valid reasons for denying. Perhaps there is a rumor mill that one particular school is horrible, and he decides to assist by denying requests from that school, so families have to go there and realize all is okay.

In this particular case (redistricting) there will be guidelines on pupil placement via the boundary request reason. Guidelines will be established, and they usually last for a certain timeframe. After that all folks wanting pupil placement will have to choose a curricular reason, or some other valid reason listed on the forms.

I really don't care if folks believe me or not. I do know cases of denied requests. Choose to believe what you want.

Curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it true that "student placement" is only
> allowed on a year to year basis?
> If this is true then how can any freshman be
> "placed" if no AP courses are offered to freshman?


From what I understand, yes pupil placement needs to be done year to year basis. I am not sure what the "cap" is for any freshmen requesting pupil placement to other schools. For example, there were 4 AP requests and 5 curriculum requests to Langley from SL and even 16 AP requests to Madison from SL for 2007-2008 according to the high school student transfer report.

^^^^^ I hope you're happy. I am now an imbecile, but guess what? Stephanie will soon be home from her east coast ski tour. She's smarter than I am now.

She'll get you..... whoever you are.

hahahahahahahahhhaaa

Another Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> > Though, ALS as a foreign language sequence
> could
> > be a reason. But to reiterate, I know it
> > happened. The request was denied despite being
> a
> > curricular request, and despite space being
> > available.
>
> ALS? ASL?

Ooops, thanks.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, I support the people's right to decide where
> they go to school. I would also like to see
> something done to help children in FCPS who aren't
> being educated, like those at Dogwood and Lake
> Anne.
>
> Bummer, isn't it? You'll just have to find a way
> to cope.


Once again, people decide to attend FCPS by living in Fairfax County. No one is being sent from FCPS to, say, Prince William or Stafford schools. FCPS assigns neighborhoods to schools based on a variety of criteria, but it should not be considered a permanent guarantee - base school/pyramid is always subject to change and I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who wrongly assumed otherwise.

With that in mind I really wish that you would stop showing your ignorance on the topic by describing the RD plan as 'forced busing' since this has nothing to do with REAL busing programs from the 60s, 70s and 80s in places like Boston.

Ahh I wondered where this info was.

For this year, South Lakes has 50 placements in and 79 placements out.

IB inbound was 42, mostly from Herndon (25). Most people requesting IB from other schools (McLean, Langley, Madison) are sent to Marshall.

AP outbound was 44, mostly to Herndon / Madison.

-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have no dog in this hunt. But you are
> correct,
> > I would not have sent my children to South
> Lakes,
> > for many reasons, IB being the biggest reason.
> > They would have hated it. They're boys. They
> > wanted more more math, science, and computer
> > science. If we wanted to live in Reston and go
> to
> > South Lakes, we would have bought a home there.
>
> > We didn't make that choice. Surely you support
> > choice.
> >
> > I am here because I would like FCPS to fix
> South
> > Lakes for all the students who are already
> there,
> > AND because I support parental choice in
> schools,
> > rather than forced busing.
>


Did you see the NRC report I provided that shows IB science courses get more credit for their labs than AP?

"Kudos" to you for buying where you bought, though there is no law that says because you bought in a certain area you are guaranteed a certain school.

It is rather irritating to continue to read the condescending comments by people who supposedly "knew" where to buy.

And further, when you bought was IB even there yet? I know Stuart and Mt. Vernon were the first two county schools, in I believe '98. When did South Lakes get IB, 2001/2002 or so? Weren't you already established in your home at that point? Why pretend you "knew" where to buy because of South Lake's IB program?

I asked earlier if your initials are L.E. I believe you were part, perhaps still are, part of the GT advisory committee, and you were very vocally oppossed to TJ changing their admissions policy. Correct?

If you are so knowledgeable of what should occur in schools/school boards/admissions policies/redistictring, and so oppossed to certain members on the school board, why don't you take all that knowledge and energy, and run for a school board spot?

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is it true that "student placement" is only
> > allowed on a year to year basis?
> > If this is true then how can any freshman be
> > "placed" if no AP courses are offered to
> freshman?
>
>
> From what I understand, yes pupil placement needs
> to be done year to year basis. I am not sure what
> the "cap" is for any freshmen requesting pupil
> placement to other schools. For example, there
> were 4 AP requests and 5 curriculum requests to
> Langley from SL and even 16 AP requests to Madison
> from SL for 2007-2008 according to the high school
> student transfer report.

I don't see how you can use AP as a valid reason for freshman placement since you could easily transfer as a sophomore without losing any instructional advantage. This is not true for IB, however, since you start the history track in 9th grade. The other reasons listed, except for employee, look way too obvious and would probably be easily seen as a way to circumvent placement to SL. Therefore, Neen may indeed be correct that private school enrollment and home schooling may be on the upswing.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen this information posted in the forum.

It also addresses "grandfathering" procedures...if you need it, follow the link.

http://www.fcps.edu/Directives/R2230.pdf

Regulation 2230.8
Special Services
Social Work and Support Services
Effective 02-27-07

Exceptions for Attendance at Other Than Base School
Procedure for Applying for
Intracounty Exceptions

I. PURPOSE

To provide procedures for granting exceptions to school-age (K-12) students to attend a school other than their base school.

EXCEPTIONS FOR REASONS OTHER THAN BOUNDARY ADJUSTMENTS
school other than their base school.
(TRANSPORTATION NOT PROVIDED)

A. Reasons for Exceptions

If the school capacity and the school curricular program at the requested school will permit, a request for a student transfer by exception may be approved by the
director of social work and support services. In addition to availability in the
requested school or program, based on the curricular program and school capacity,
one of the following conditions must exist:

1. FamilyRelocation
The family has moved from one school attendance area to another during the
school year or can demonstrate definite plans to do so. Proof of purchase or
rental must be provided with the request for student transfer. The new
residence must be the primary permanent residence for the student and the
student's family. Additional documentation may be requested to establish that
the new residence is bona fide and that the family has abandoned or will
abandon any other property as its primary residence.

2. Child Care Hardship (Elementary School Only)
3. Medical, Emotional, Social, or Family Adjustment
The family demonstrates exceptional hardship for reasons of medical,emotional, or social adjustment. Documentation substantiating the circumstances (e.g., from physicians, psychologists, or counselors) is required and must be attached to the student transfer application.

4. Child of Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) Employee
The parent is an FCPS employee who works more than 20 hours per week,
resides in Fairfax County, and is requesting a student transfer to the school in
which the parent is employed or in the school nearest the employee’s work
location.

5. High School Curricular Program
The student intends to enroll and remain for the year in a sequential curricular
program from the standard course offering, which is not offered at the base high
school. For example, applications may be submitted for an exception for an
Advanced Placement (AP) or an International Baccalaureate (IB) program if the
base school does not offer the desired program of study. Student transfers can
be requested to the school with space available that is closest to the student’s
residence or base school. Applications must be received by April 15 for the
following school year.

6. Kindergarten



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2008 08:53AM by VaDriver.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ahh I wondered where this info was.
>
> For this year, South Lakes has 50 placements in
> and 79 placements out.
>
> IB inbound was 42, mostly from Herndon (25). Most
> people requesting IB from other schools (McLean,
> Langley, Madison) are sent to Marshall.
>
> AP outbound was 44, mostly to Herndon / Madison.

Here is the list that shows what schools one would need to apply to, based on their current base school. The list may change as a result of the redistricting. http://www.fcps.edu/ss/student-transfer/infofiles/APandIB-list.pdf

JUSTICE KENNEDY: He's at it again, Chief.

FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE WARREN: Who?

KENNEDY: You know, quantum, the guy who invoked your Brown opinion and my Seattle case, but was obviously simply spouting off some conservative spin he heard or read somewhere else.

WARREN: Oh, yeah. I did see that.

KENNEDY: He says you need to "truly read Brown for what it is."

WARREN: Saw that too. He seems to think Brown was about access to good schools and not about segregation.

KENNEDY: He should know that Supreme Court cases are not "about" anything outside their holdings on the questions presented. The question presented to the Brown Court was: "Does segregation of children in public schools solely on the basis of race, even thogh the physical facilities and other tangible factors may be equal, deprive the children of the minoirty group of equal educational opportunities? We believe that it does."

WARREN: Because of the stigma - yeah, I know, Tony ... I wrote the opinion. During that time Thurgood Marshall and the NAACP usually argued cases under the "separate but equal doctrine." Marshall would argue that the separate schools for colored children were not in fact equal. This wasn't hard because the school boards usually gave the minority children tar paper shacks and and hand-me-down books. Once they won some victories on that ground, they began to squarely attack the "separate but equal doctrine." We agreed in Brown that in the context of schooling, "separate but equal" is unconstitutional.

KENNEDY: It wasn't based on gooey emotion, was it?

WARREN: Of course not. The plaintiffs in Brown had hard science to back it up. We cited it in our opinion. Segregation stamps the minority kids with a "badge of inferiority" that affected their motivation to learn, and fosters a negative counter culture mentality.

KENNEDY: It's also common sense, though, right? I mean, if a group of people don't want to associate with you because of your race, or your income, or a combination of both, and they denigrate you and your school, isn't that both proof that the stigma exists and reinforcing of the stigma itself?

WARREN: I think you know the answer. With respect to quantum, I do think he makes a good point that we need to close the achievement gap. But that simply leads to the issue of the day: the redistricting of more students to South Lakes will help to achieve that by offering a richer and fuller curriculum. The FCPS staff has come up with a wonderful way to do that while at the same time impacting the fewest students and serving secondary goals of decreasing the stigma and sense of racial isolation at South Lakes.

KENNEDY: And there's nothing wrong with doing that. There's nothing wrong with adding these students in a way that also recognizes the need to diversify the school. As I said in my controlling opinion in the Seattle case, "School boards may pursue the goal of bringing together students of diverse backgrounds and races through other means, including strategic site selection of new schools; drawing attendance zones with general recognition of the demographics of neighborhoods."

WARREN: But the part I like is when you said "this Nation has a moral and ethical obligation to fulfill its historic commitment to creating an integrated society that ensures equal opportunity for all of its children." That was very "Kingian." That does make me gooey inside.

KENNEDY: The real question is, why doesen't it do the same for quantum?


quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's see - a fictional conversation between
> Supreme Court Justices, one who is inaccurately
> ascribed as the Chief Justice, because heck, that
> Chief Justice would rule for good old liberal as
> we see it justice rather than rule upon the case
> or controversy before the Court (you know, the
> Constitutional thing). Please, no matter what you
> think of my post - and of course, the fact that an
> elliptical piece of sarcasm is the best that you
> can come up with means it hits home more than you
> would like - courts don't exist to protect the
> feelings and sensibilities of minority children or
> anyone else for that matter, and anyone who would
> purport to raise this in a matter of
> Constitutional law, well, either isn't rigorous or
> is just lost in the land of warm and fuzzy.
>
> The one thing the piece of sarcasm misses is the
> door that I left open - that if one truly reads
> Brown for what it is - as opposed to the principle
> often associated with it that public schools
> should not discriminate on the basis of race - the
> Parents United case may have been wrongly decided
> - especially in a system where stare decisis
> governs and controls rather than gooey emotion.
> But if we read Brown the historically "correct"
> meaning access to good schools and good students -
> and given Parents United it may be too late in the
> near future to practically do so - it will make a
> lot of people uncomfortable - because if we are
> going to have exceptions to the no discrimination
> principle, on what basis should we do so? And who
> will decide? No discriminations except where
> groups are highly associated with poor educational
> attainment? All troubling - which points to the
> desperate need we have to close the achievement
> gap - because if that gap was closed, there would
> not be 170 odd pages here. How about a direct
> rebuttal? I suspect that may difficult, eh, even
> in response, as some have called me - an ill
> educated blowhard (of course, people can guess at
> that truth, too).

SapphicHokieMom to Neen:


"... with that in mind I really wish that you would stop showing your ignorance...."

_________________________

Once again, South Lakes doing what it does best.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, I support the people's right to decide where
> they go to school. I would also like to see
> something done to help children in FCPS who aren't
> being educated, like those at Dogwood and Lake
> Anne.
>
> Bummer, isn't it? You'll just have to find a way
> to cope.

Lol. Hey, no worries here, I've got a busy and fulfilling life away from my computer screen. I just feel bad for you that nobody seems to appreciate you and your efforts to support people's right to decide where to educate their children since these people are obviously so incapable of doing that for themselves.

And to actually "like to see something done" for kids in Dogwood and Lake Anne. Wow, you pull that off then it's a bona-fide win-win for everybody. Those underperforming SL feeders start kickin ass and the next thing you know SL has a waiting list to get in and they've ditched IB. Badda-Boom, Badda-Bing, problem solved.

I'm sure you'll get the last word on this and every side conversation you're having so I'll just sign off by wishing you well on your quest.

To, More Conversation

Brown v. Board of Education concerned a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. So, cut the crap.

Oh, and ... Kennedy would have been lucky if Warren had even noticed his existence.

AFMD's first keystrokes after a full lobotomy:

"Lol. Hey, no worries here, I've got a busy and fulfilling life away from my computer screen. I just feel bad for you that nobody seems to appreciate you and your efforts to support people's right to decide where to educate their children since these people are obviously so incapable of doing that for themselves.

And to actually "like to see something done" for kids in Dogwood and Lake Anne. Wow, you pull that off then it's a bona-fide win-win for everybody. Those underperforming SL feeders start kickin ass and the next thing you know SL has a waiting list to get in and they've ditched IB. Badda-Boom, Badda-Bing, problem solved.

I'm sure you'll get the last word on this and every side conversation you're having so I'll just sign off by wishing you well on your quest."

______________________________________________

AFMD.. it must really suck to be you, especially now. Enjoy typing your nonsense to Neen. You're just like a chicken... running around without its head. Won't be long before you collapse. Maybe Neen will cook you up for dinner.
Badda-Boom, Badda-Bing.

LOL

I really appreciate Neen and all the nice people posting here to support people's right to decide where to educate our children. THANK YOU all!

We are Thankful that many people posting here and this boundary changes doesn't affect their own children. That's the good people around us. They just stand up for what they believe is right or wrong not what others will think of them. Not like some people doing this only for a while then stop fighting when they are so lucky to be out of this boundary change. So they are happy and they are safe now.

Neen, Thank you very much for your time! You will make a difference on this no matter what's the outcome of this boundary change.

Sorry that some people hates you because you tell the truth that not everybody like to hear!

From a Floris ES parent




AFMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah, I support the people's right to decide
> where
> > they go to school. I would also like to see
> > something done to help children in FCPS who
> aren't
> > being educated, like those at Dogwood and Lake
> > Anne.
> >
> > Bummer, isn't it? You'll just have to find a
> way
> > to cope.
>
> Lol. Hey, no worries here, I've got a busy and
> fulfilling life away from my computer screen. I
> just feel bad for you that nobody seems to
> appreciate you and your efforts to support
> people's right to decide where to educate their
> children since these people are obviously so
> incapable of doing that for themselves.
>
> And to actually "like to see something done" for
> kids in Dogwood and Lake Anne. Wow, you pull that
> off then it's a bona-fide win-win for everybody.
> Those underperforming SL feeders start kickin ass
> and the next thing you know SL has a waiting list
> to get in and they've ditched IB. Badda-Boom,
> Badda-Bing, problem solved.
>
> I'm sure you'll get the last word on this and
> every side conversation you're having so I'll just
> sign off by wishing you well on your quest.

Look at Stu Gibson's stand on Langley and North Reston. He got around the laws and rules for which he has no regard anyway by excluding the districts that he did not want to get changed, out of the scope of the study even before it started.
Instead of posting here, *****all please send emails to school board members and all media outlets and newspapers highlighting and qouting this statement from Stu*******. The only way to stop guys like him, is to expose their true colors to the world.

LINK FROM CONNECTION:
---------------------------

www.arlingtonconnection.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=14732&paper=73&cat=106

"A lot of people choose where to live based on the high schools where they live. It has been suggested before that all of Reston should go to South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a daughter who went there and another that is going to graduate from there, but North Point Village doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the community and float the idea of a boundary change, go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting that measure."

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBVeritas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> > If you have kids in both high school and
> younger
> > now, then for a couple of years, you'll have
> kids
> > in two high schools -- nothing more onerus than
> > having kids in one middle school and one high
> > school, or in TJ and your base school.
>
> Apparently your grade school teachers never taught
> you to read a map or clock. Turns out that Carson
> is on the way to Westfield from Floris, but
> Westfield and South Lakes are in exactly opposite
> directions. High schools and middle schools have
> different hours, but high schools have
> approximately the same hours.


Then how about you stop driving them to school everday? Uses buses, I'm sure you've heard of busdrivers... they're paid by FCPS for a reason...

bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Stephanie, debating these "adults" is like
> hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. It
> feels SO good when you stop. You are too adult
> for them.
>
> They keep hollering about being the
> majority....they are NOT. Stu Gibson won
> re-election in a landslide! Now they're going to
> start a recall drive? Give me a break! Let's
> recall Bush too, before it's too late.
>
> And to all these new pupil placed
> carpools....please be careful on school property!
> In 22 years of driving a school bus, I have been
> hit ELEVEN times by parents that can't drive!
> Backed into usually...PUHLEEZE don't try to back
> up, parents! You lack the skill required. And
> when you do hit me, be prepared for a LONG wait.
> Even if there's no apparent damage to the bus, the
> police MUST be called, as well as a transportation
> supervisor. I will miss my next two runs and you
> WILL be late to work! So please be careful.
>
> And if you leave the scene, be advised that I have
> (or will radio another bus to get) your tag number
> and description. The police will arrest you for
> hit and run, comprende?

I don't know who you are bus driver... but oh do I wish you were my bus driver! You make the most sense of anyone here... because in reality these are just ridiculous parents who think they're to good for the South Lakes school system. And you're right about all those girls trying to sneak boys onto the bus... I've seen it myself at schools I've attended... and let me say parents think to highly of their children. Children in this area are not perfect... far from it. No matter how much money they come from!

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie to BirdLover:
>
> Well isn't this quite the conincidence? I'm
> actually a very active skiier on the east coast
> and have been planning to go skiing at Rountop or
> Liberty tommorow, which yet I havn't decided. But
> yes BirdLover I'll give you the day off to come up
> with a couple more ridiculous reasons as to why
> redistriciting is so bad. And don't worry, come
> monday, I'll be ready bright and early to shoot
> them down as always. It's quite funny
>
> _______________________
>
> Stephanie,
>
> Just go skiing.


Oh my? Well I guess I could spin your words at this point like you've done with mine so many times. Do you tell me to "just go skiing" to get rid of me and stop voicing my opinouns. You know this is a free country meaning I'm allowed to say whatever I'd like here.
I think some of you don't realize that the federal government in this situation favors the side of FCPS more so then the parents who represent a fragment of the smallest percentage of parents in this redistriciting campaign. Think about that for a second... now why don't you complain to them before FCPS? Oh thats right, they have bigger problems to worry about then parents who are boo-hoo, being moved across town to a school half the distance away, which is still under one of the best school systems in the country. Take a tissue birdlover, because many parents in the US would be happy to send their children to a school like South Lakes but simply can't afford to live in the area.

Will ther "real" Stephanie please stand up?

Stephanie wrote:

"let me say parents think to highly of their children. Children in this area are not perfect... far from it. No matter how much money they come from!"

It is not a crime for those who are parents to think highly of their children and what is best for their children. You mentioned children from this area are not perfect? In reality, NOBODY is perfect...anywhere.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, I support the people's right to decide where
> they go to school. I would also like to see
> something done to help children in FCPS who aren't
> being educated, like those at Dogwood and Lake
> Anne.
>
> Bummer, isn't it? You'll just have to find a way
> to cope.

If by perhaps there is a chance... I'd love to hear your take on Dogwood, and how you think it and Lake Anne could be "fixed."

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stereotype Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "They would have hated it. They're boys. They
> > wanted more more math, science, and computer
> > science."
> >
> > Hmmm, I know many,many masculine males who
> majored
> > in liberal arts and avoided these subject areas
> > like the plague! I also know a bevy of feminine
> > women who excelled in these three subjects.
> >
> >
> > Not a valid argument.
>
> Of course it is. Your feminine friends would also
> have hated South Lakes.

This is hilarious! My mother is an engineer and I know for a fact she's always hoped I'd follow in her footsteps, although she has always respected my decision as to what I'd like to be myself, as I am my own person. Trust me, there is no possible chance she would have sent me to a school that couldn't prepare me as well as Oakton or Westfield could for that field. My mother and father discussed South Lakes with me before I decided to attend. I had many other options on where to go for highschool, both public and private, and I had the grades to be pupil placed and the reason for doing so. However they had done their research on South Lakes and respected my decision for wanting to move past Carson and make new friends. They respected my decision for wanting to attend a school in the same area rather then one across the highway, and they respected my decision to attend the school I had already toured and looked into.
My parents are very smart individuals, and I do not mean to brag but they are. They have always made sure myself and my siblings have recieved everything needed to succeed and there is absolutly no way they would have sent me to a failing school had they known it was just that. Looking back on the decision I made I would have not changed it, my parents are confident in the decision I've made as well. And by the way, she's no longer an engineer. She's gone on to many different job titles, but I personally know this is her first love and she has always hoped it would be mine as well. But then again, she also knows I enjoy argueing and respects my love for poilitics.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie wrote:
>
> "let me say parents think to highly of their
> children. Children in this area are not perfect...
> far from it. No matter how much money they come
> from!"
>
> It is not a crime for those who are parents to
> think highly of their children and what is best
> for their children. You mentioned children from
> this area are not perfect? In reality, NOBODY is
> perfect...anywhere.

All I'm saying is that parents really don't seem to know anything about higschool now. It's not what it was in the 70's for goodness sakes! I bet if you knew the actual numbers of children drinking and doing drugs you'd never let some of your children out of the house, at least not after school. Kids these days are crazy, from EVERY school. It's sad when almost the entirity of society thinks the drinking age is now a suggestion... not a law... it truly is sad.
I understand perfection being a moving target, but people know the difference between right and wrong, that doesn't require being perfect does it? It's called common sense. All I'm saying is before you assume South Lakes is horrible, know your child, I'd hate for anyone on here to be accused of being a hypocrite!

Stephanie Wrote:
Date: January 21, 2008 12:58PM
> > Stephanie to BirdLover:
> > ...Well isn't this quite the conincidence? I'm
> > actually a very active skiier on the east coast
> > and have been planning to go skiing at Rountop
> or Liberty tommorow, which yet I havn't decided....
----------
Stephanie,
I purposely avoid responding to your comments because I do not want to appear to be picking on a child, but I am pleased that you have apparently changed your mind and decided not to ski today. This cold weather is a bit more suited to Minnesotans.

> > Observer Wrote:
> > ...ALS? ASL?
>
> Ooops, thanks.

I am pleased that at least a few posters can admit mistakes, even a small one.

-------------------
Observer Wrote:
> ... Did you see the NRC report I provided that shows
> IB science courses get more credit for their labs
> than AP?

Yes, some colleges do give a bit more credit for a two-year High Level IB lab science course than for a one-year AP science course. I have continually stated that the full IB Diploma Programme (which includes at least three but no more than four HL courses) is very good for about 5% of students.

But have you found any colleges that give more credit for a one-year IB Standard Level science course than for an AP science course?

bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Stephanie, debating these "adults" is like
> hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. It
> feels SO good when you stop. You are too adult
> for them.
>
> They keep hollering about being the
> majority....they are NOT. Stu Gibson won
> re-election in a landslide! Now they're going to
> start a recall drive? Give me a break! Let's
> recall Bush too, before it's too late.
>
> And to all these new pupil placed
> carpools....please be careful on school property!
> In 22 years of driving a school bus, I have been
> hit ELEVEN times by parents that can't drive!
> Backed into usually...PUHLEEZE don't try to back
> up, parents! You lack the skill required. And
> when you do hit me, be prepared for a LONG wait.
> Even if there's no apparent damage to the bus, the
> police MUST be called, as well as a transportation
> supervisor. I will miss my next two runs and you
> WILL be late to work! So please be careful.
>
And if you leave the scene, be advised that I have
> (or will radio another bus to get) your tag number
> and description. The police will arrest you for
> hit and run, comprende?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephanie wrote:

I don't know who you are bus driver... but oh do I wish you were my bus driver! You make the most sense of anyone here... because in reality these are just ridiculous parents who think they're to good for the South Lakes school system. And you're right about all those girls trying to sneak boys onto the bus... I've seen it myself at schools I've attended... and let me say parents think to highly of their children. Children in this area are not perfect... far from it. No matter how much money they come from!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Maybe Stephanie and Bus Driver should open a new thread to discuss “BUSES”…...

This thread is about “BUSING”!

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> All I'm saying is that parents really don't seem
> to know anything about higschool now. It's not
> what it was in the 70's for goodness sakes! I bet
> if you knew the actual numbers of children
> drinking and doing drugs you'd never let some of
> your children out of the house, at least not after
> school. Kids these days are crazy, from EVERY
> school.

You don't know much about the 70s do you?

FES MOM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Neen, Thank you very much for your time! You will
> make a difference on this no matter what's the
> outcome of this boundary change.


Second that. Lots of good info, thanks.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie Wrote:
> Date: January 21, 2008 12:58PM
> > > Stephanie to BirdLover:
> > > ...Well isn't this quite the conincidence?
> I'm
> > > actually a very active skiier on the east
> coast
> > > and have been planning to go skiing at
> Rountop
> > or Liberty tommorow, which yet I havn't
> decided....
> ----------
> Stephanie,
> I purposely avoid responding to your comments
> because I do not want to appear to be picking on a
> child, but I am pleased that you have apparently
> changed your mind and decided not to ski today.
> This cold weather is a bit more suited to
> Minnesotans.


Actually I went to Roundtop yesterday, hence why I wasn't on the forum writing. But the weather was bitter cold to say the least, a high of fifteen all day! But great powder at Roundtop! Everytime you turned a mass of snow went flying!

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > Observer Wrote:
> > > ...ALS? ASL?
> >
> > Ooops, thanks.
>
> I am pleased that at least a few posters can admit
> mistakes, even a small one.
>
> -------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> > ... Did you see the NRC report I provided that
> shows
> > IB science courses get more credit for their
> labs
> > than AP?
>
> Yes, some colleges do give a bit more credit for a
> two-year High Level IB lab science course than for
> a one-year AP science course. I have continually
> stated that the full IB Diploma Programme (which
> includes at least three but no more than four HL
> courses) is very good for about 5% of students.
>
> But have you found any colleges that give more
> credit for a one-year IB Standard Level science
> course than for an AP science course?

Not more than, but at least equal to at GMU. Many people have pointed out that SL IB classes don't earn credit, only HL do. GMU is giving credit to a few SL courses, including some science courses. Physics SL credit is equal to some AP courses for 4 credits. The HL physics is equal to another AP physics course for 8 credits.


Not sure if I have time to devote further expoloration on this issue, because each family should investigate what their student's college interests are, and find out pertinent info like AP or IB credits, if that is a priority for them.

Here are the links for GMU (AP): http://admissions.gmu.edu/exams/ExamAdvancedPlacement.asp

and IB: http://admissions.gmu.edu/exams/ExamBaccalaureateInternational.asp

above should read, "Physics SL credit is equal to an AP Physics course for 4 credits.." Not "some AP courses." Sorry

I am sure that many have read this article, but there are a couple of quotes the are very interesting to read. This quote be SL VP Maria Allen is simply an untrue statement. For any of you who were living in the Floris area when Westfield was built, you will clearly remember the public out cry when many families were told that they would be leaving Oakton HS, and that the future of Floris was in the west.

STILL, SEVERAL PARENTS have concerns about moving their child from the school they thought they would be attending next year. In particular, parents currently in other districts have complained that South Lakes academic program is not equal to their home schools.
But some South Lakes parents said opposition to moving schools is more sinister than that.
"I don't think there has ever been a situation where people wanted to move to the school that is more diverse and poorer. ... No one objected to the process when they were trying to fill Westfield," said Maria Allen, a member of the South Lakes Parent Teacher Association.

I like this one too,I know a kid who wanted to be a lion tamer, but that class was not offered at Westfield, so he had to drop out of school, and join the circus.:

"I know a kid who was unable to take public speaking because there weren't enough people. He wants to be an actor," said Susan Sather, who has a freshman at South Lakes.


And then there is this one, where Mr. Gibson is again showing his support for South Lakes:

"We are not doing the boundary study because we need to 'fix' South Lakes," said Gibson, whose daughter attended the school.
The International Baccalaureate diploma provides a comprehensive and rigorous program and South Lakes sends as large a percentage if not a larger percentage of students to top notch universities and colleges than surrounding schools, said Gibson.

I wonder what Stu was thinking back in 2003, when he and the SB had a wonderful opportunity to save the tax payers millions of dollars by not building the Langley and Westfield additions, when there was an "underenrolled South lakes.

IN OTHER CAPITAL improvement program (CIP) news, schools staff stressed that the proposed addition at Langley High School is a permanent addition and that there are no plans to change the school's boundaries.
In addition, Brady said that staff will soon be recommending a firm to perform a real-estate assessment that includes a plan for the sale, trade or swap of school system property for existing space that can be leased or purchased to be used as classroom space or administrative centers. The consultant would also be asked to supply alternative funding methods, outside of bonding, for the renovation or construction of school property. One possibility is the purchase or lease of vacant commercial space for an adult education center.
"The hope is by next year's CIP we have a CIP based on the facts as we know them and an alternative [based on the consultant's recommendations]," Brady said.

SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS Rita Thompson and Mychele Brickner, both at-large members, without mentioning the words “boundary change,” suggested the School Board should be looking at reapportioning the attendance areas to address the overcrowding of some schools, while others are underenrolled. The pair did not find support among their fellow members.
"We have overcapacity at Westfield and overcapacity at Langley, and we're under capacity at South Lakes. I understand the political ramifications, but we are responsible to all the taxpayers to show we are being responsible with their money, and we aren't trying to address this," Brickner said.
"A lot of people choose where to live based on the high schools where they live. It has been suggested before that all of Reston should go to South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a daughter who went there and another that is going to graduate from there, but North Point Village doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the community and float the idea of a boundary change, go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting that measure."

http://springfieldconnection.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=14732&paper=72&cat=106

And I also find it interesting that Dean Tisdant of the FCPS Staff, states that it would be overwheliming for the staff to conduct a County Wide Boundary Study. In other words, even though there are many other imbalances in enrollments, as well as schools that face the same S'socio-economic balances that challange South Lakes, the Staff feels that they cannot deal ith helping these other schools.

This whole boundary issue cries out for a countywide look and a countywide decision," said Raney, who has also said he would favor a moratorium until a countywide boundary study was conducted.
Many of the School Board members who have served for two or three terms said they are opposed to a countywide boundary study. The school system's chief operating officer Dean Tistadt has also expressed reservations about a countywide study, saying it would overwhelm staff.
"I am not in favor of a countywide boundary study. Changes in my area from the last countywide boundary study in the early 1980s all ended up being undone," said Strauss.
The school system initiated the western county boundary study last summer at the recommendation of staff who said that Westfield and Chantilly high school students would be better served by a smaller school and South Lakes students would be better served by a larger school.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?paper=62&cat=104&article=92560

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > All I'm saying is that parents really don't
> seem
> > to know anything about higschool now. It's not
> > what it was in the 70's for goodness sakes! I
> bet
> > if you knew the actual numbers of children
> > drinking and doing drugs you'd never let some
> of
> > your children out of the house, at least not
> after
> > school. Kids these days are crazy, from EVERY
> > school.
>
> You don't know much about the 70s do you?


Just what I've read and heard from others... so yes I guess I don't know first hand from the 70's but then again no one really knows first hand about South Lakes and they feel they have the right to talk about it like it's garbage. Oh thats right... you're statement is a tad bit hypocritical... then again... most on this forum are.

VA Tech states IB students "can earn up to 38 credits" for the IB diploma, that certainly might be of interest to many families, and up to 30 for those without the diploma. AP students can also earn up to 38 credits, depending on how many AP exams they take. Obviously certain scores need to be met for both programs.

Here is the link: http://www.admiss.vt.edu/apply/transfer/credit.php

Observer Wrote:
> ... each family
> should investigate what their student's college
> interests are, and find out pertinent info like AP
> or IB credits ...

True, but it is also true that few eighth grade students - or their parents - know their "college interests." I could easily enough research these data for the ten colleges most attended by FCPS grads, and create a spreadsheet listing every AP and IB HL and SL course with the resultant college credit information. In most cases two-year IB HL courses have a somewhat analogous one-year AP course and in some cases SAT II exams, so those data could be posted on the same line, followed by columns listing college credit awarded for various test scores.

FCPS staff could create this spreadsheet even more easily than I could, and could update it at least yearly. Then they could post these data on their website, so eighth graders and their parents would have a more simple way to compare IB and AP. Why should thousands of parents be expected to do this thousand of times, when FCPS staff could do it just once and post the results for us all?

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VA Tech states IB students "can earn up to 38
> credits" for the IB diploma, that certainly might
> be of interest to many families, and up to 30 for
> those without the diploma. AP students can also
> earn up to 38 credits, depending on how many AP
> exams they take. Obviously certain scores need to
> be met for both programs.

The exact quote from the site you provided (thank you for including it - it is always easier to achieve harmony when we sing from the same sheet of music): "Advanced standing credits are granted for higher-level IB subjects with scores of 4 or higher (5 on mathematics). Students who earn the IB diploma may receive credit for one course for which the student examined at the subsidiary level. The maximum number of credits awarded for subsidiary level courses is 3 semester credits (4 with lab)."

I have written before and will probably write again that the FULL IB DIPLOMA is a wonderful programme for about 5% of students, but what about the other 95% of the school? Since "The maximum number of credits awarded for subsidiary level courses is 3 semester credits (4 with lab)," are the rest of the college-bound students taking the flock of HL courses that will earn them "up to 30 for those without the diploma"?

Hi, my name is Stephanie,

For those of you who were wondering wear I was yesterday Ill tell you now. BirdLover told me to go sking which I was planing on doing anyway but it must have made her happy to think she made me go. But yes, I did go sking and I think I probably had more fun then her children who were also sking. I skiid every black diamond trail multiple times. I even skiid one with my eyes closed. I bet you can't due that, birdLover. I never got cold because I have excellent clthes. Im a spoied brat and I can buy anythink I want. Anyways, my hands stayed nice and warm with my new gortex globes so hear I am back at my computer after haveing a blast. Hows Neen been.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > IBVeritas Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> >
> > > If you have kids in both high school and
> > younger
> > > now, then for a couple of years, you'll have
> > kids
> > > in two high schools -- nothing more onerus
> than
> > > having kids in one middle school and one high
> > > school, or in TJ and your base school.
> >
> > Apparently your grade school teachers never
> taught
> > you to read a map or clock. Turns out that
> Carson
> > is on the way to Westfield from Floris, but
> > Westfield and South Lakes are in exactly
> opposite
> > directions. High schools and middle schools
> have
> > different hours, but high schools have
> > approximately the same hours.
>
>
> Then how about you stop driving them to school
> everday? Uses buses, I'm sure you've heard of
> busdrivers... they're paid by FCPS for a reason...

Stephanie -
In a less than perfect world, less than perfect kids actually miss busses. Hard to believe, but true.

I am trying not to say anything but it's really hard. Just wondering how many kids in SL like you? it might be another reason I can't send my kids to SL, sorry, but true.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, my name is Stephanie,
>
> For those of you who were wondering wear I was
> yesterday Ill tell you now. BirdLover told me to
> go sking which I was planing on doing anyway but
> it must have made her happy to think she made me
> go. But yes, I did go sking and I think I probably
> had more fun then her children who were also
> sking. I skiid every black diamond trail multiple
> times. I even skiid one with my eyes closed. I
> bet you can't due that, birdLover. I never got
> cold because I have excellent clthes. Im a spoied
> brat and I can buy anythink I want. Anyways, my
> hands stayed nice and warm with my new gortex
> globes so hear I am back at my computer after
> haveing a blast. Hows Neen been.

Hi, I'm the real Stephanie.
I'm the real deal! Don't pay any attention to all those other posts saying they are written by me...they're NOT. I don't even ski! I'm very busy studying now, so I can't post for a while. Think about that.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, I'm the real Stephanie.
> I'm the real deal! Don't pay any attention to all
> those other posts saying they are written by
> me...they're NOT. I don't even ski! I'm very busy
> studying now, so I can't post for a while. Think
> about that.


Good--please study well...and think about that.

At this point, it doesn't matter which of the Stephanies is the real deal. They all sound pretty much the same.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> > ... each family
> > should investigate what their student's college
> > interests are, and find out pertinent info like
> AP
> > or IB credits ...
>
> True, but it is also true that few eighth grade
> students - or their parents - know their "college
> interests." I could easily enough research these
> data for the ten colleges most attended by FCPS
> grads, and create a spreadsheet listing every AP
> and IB HL and SL course with the resultant college
> credit information. In most cases two-year IB HL
> courses have a somewhat analogous one-year AP
> course and in some cases SAT II exams, so those
> data could be posted on the same line, followed by
> columns listing college credit awarded for various
> test scores.
>
> FCPS staff could create this spreadsheet even more
> easily than I could, and could update it at least
> yearly. Then they could post these data on their
> website, so eighth graders and their parents would
> have a more simple way to compare IB and AP. Why
> should thousands of parents be expected to do this
> thousand of times, when FCPS staff could do it
> just once and post the results for us all?

Nice idea, but doubt it will happen.

I agree 8th graders probably have no idea which colleges interest them the most. Many juniors also have no clue.

I was posting information just so people would have some idea of what current colleges are saying. If people only want to compare IB and AP in terms of potential credits earned, than that is how to do it.

Colleges though realistically have the choice to give credit or not to, to any student whether AP or IB. They say a certain score will earn credit in a certain class, but some departments within the college will have their own criteria for certain majors, so even if FCPS created a list, once a student is applying in their senior year, there would still be clarifications on credits earned.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > VA Tech states IB students "can earn up to 38
> > credits" for the IB diploma, that certainly
> might
> > be of interest to many families, and up to 30
> for
> > those without the diploma. AP students can
> also
> > earn up to 38 credits, depending on how many AP
> > exams they take. Obviously certain scores need
> to
> > be met for both programs.
>
> The exact quote from the site you provided (thank
> you for including it - it is always easier to
> achieve harmony when we sing from the same sheet
> of music): "Advanced standing credits are granted
> for higher-level IB subjects with scores of 4 or
> higher (5 on mathematics). Students who earn the
> IB diploma may receive credit for one course for
> which the student examined at the subsidiary
> level. The maximum number of credits awarded for
> subsidiary level courses is 3 semester credits (4
> with lab)."
>
> I have written before and will probably write
> again that the FULL IB DIPLOMA is a wonderful
> programme for about 5% of students, but what about
> the other 95% of the school? Since "The maximum
> number of credits awarded for subsidiary level
> courses is 3 semester credits (4 with lab)," are
> the rest of the college-bound students taking the
> flock of HL courses that will earn them "up to 30
> for those without the diploma"?

Good question re: the 30 credits for non-diploma students.

It seems as if you prefer AP instead of IB. Will you request pupil placement your child(ren)?

I would believe the percentage is higher than 5, in terms of whom the IB diploma is good for, but I haven't really looked at the stats..what is the ratio of students in a class compared to full IB diploma students?

It truthfully kind of boggles my mind how different the college application process is compared to when I went through it. I didn't know any students that looked at getting college credit, even those that took AP tended towards taking even the intro courses in college, and staying for the full four years.

Is it just due to tuition that everyone is so hyped about potential college credits?

Is the issue of college credits the only issue you have with IB?

By the way, a recent blurb by the City Journal's Sol Stern on that great conservative bastion (ahem) known as the Commonwealth of Massachussetts. Good to know that what counts is what works rather than politics. In any event, below is a part of the article - think anyone in Fairfax is listening?

____________________

Those in the school reform movement seeking a case of truly spectacular academic improvement should look to Massachusetts, where something close to an education miracle has occurred. In the past several years, Massachusetts has improved more than almost every other state on the NAEP tests. In 2007, it scored first in the nation in fourth- and eighth-grade math and reading. The state’s average scale scores on all four tests have also improved at far higher rates than most other states have seen over the past 15 years.

The improvement had nothing to do with market incentives. Massachusetts has no vouchers, no tuition tax credits, very few charter schools, and no market incentives for principals and teachers. The state owes its amazing improvement in student performance to a few key former education leaders, including state education board chairman John Silber, assistant commissioner Sandra Stotsky, and board member (and Manhattan Institute fellow) Abigail Thernstrom. Starting a decade ago, these instructionists pushed the state’s board of education to mandate a rigorous curriculum for all grades, created demanding tests linked to the curriculum standards, and insisted that all high school graduates pass a comprehensive exit exam. In its English Language Arts curriculum framework, the board even dared to say that reading instruction in the early grades should include systematic and explicit phonics. Now a professor of education reform at the University of Arkansas, Stotsky sums up: “The lesson from Massachusetts is that a strong content–based curriculum, together with upgraded certification regulations and teacher licensure tests that require teacher preparation programs to address that content, can be the best recipe for improving students’ academic achievement.”

Another Conversation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kennedy: Chief, did you read my concurrence in the
> Seattle case?
>
> Warren: Yes and I think you’re a weenie.
>
> Kennedy: Chief, what do you mean? Racial balancing
> isn't a compelling state issue. So, I had to
> concur, right. But, I left the door open for
> schools to use race as a means to achieve
> diversity. I thought that was good.
>
> Warren: Yes, the Seattle case was about racial
> balancing and the decision, in my opinion, was
> correct. You agreed, but disagreed. (weenie)
>
> In Brown v. Board of Education, we decided that
> state laws which allowed for segregated public
> educational facilities were inherently unequal and
> represented a violation of the 14th Amendment. We
> overturned Plessy vs. Ferguson.
>
> The Seattle case did not concern state sanctioned
> segregation but rather with the state deciding how
> many of each race should attend a certain school.
>
>
> Kennedy: Chief, isn’t it a good thing to spread
> the races around? In Fairfax County, some very
> wise leaders have decided to move many white
> children from affluent neighborhoods to a school
> with many poor black kids who live in government
> subsidized housing projects. Doesn’t this help
> desegregate our schools?
>
> Warren: No, son, that is just an attempt by the
> government to cover up its own failures.

JUSTICE KENNEDY: Hey - wait a minute. Clarence - please stop posing as Former Chief Justice Warren.

JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS: Sorry, Tony. It's just that the government shouldn't be in the business of determining where children go to school. That should be up to parents.

KENNEDY: Well, let's examine that. Who draws the boundaries?

THOMAS: The government.

KENNEDY: Doesn't the drawing of boundaries determine which schools children go to?

THOMAS: In the beginning, sure. But once parents buy property in an attendance zone, the government should respect that.

KENNEDY: What if the boundaries need to be changed? For example, what if, due to development, two nearby schools are at or beyond capacity, and a certain school is only at 60% capacity and can't offer the remaining students the full panoply of curricular and extra-curricular opportunities?

THOMAS: Tough. The school board should poll the affected parents and they should be rezoned only if the majority votes for that.

KENNEDY: What about the school board's responsibility to students at the under-enrolled school?

THOMAS: Tony, you're pissing me off. You've been hanging around Ginsburg too long. If the students in the under-enrolled school want the situation to change, they can move. Or they can go to a private school. Or they can raise their test scores so that their school is more attractive. Other kids should not have to suffer by being rezoned to their school.

KENNEDY: Well, monetarily, they can't move or attend private school.

THOMAS: Then they need to hit the books.

KENNEDY: But they're still left with lesser curricular and extra curricular opportunites. And you use the word "suffer." What if the school in question is excellent, just not as excellent as the others in the county and not as excellent as it could be if it were afforded the same number of students as the others in the county?

THOMAS: So what. N-M-P (not my problem). The School Board has no right to change school boundaries to even out enrollment patterns so as to equal-out curricular and extra curricular opportunities. That should be left to the Invisible Hand of the market.

KENNEDY: Access to equal public education is not a market-based right, Clarence. Parents with means or parents with biases don't have a preemtive veto over whether other parent's children should have equal curricular and extra curricular opportunities. And you know as well as I do that the Invisible Hand of the market is corrose with parental biases of all kinds.

THOMAS: Even if I were to concede that a school board can change boundaries to increase enrollment at an under-enrolled school, I still believe that the racial make-up of neighborhoods cannot be a factor.

KENNEDY: We dealt with that in the Seattle case, Clarence. In any event, that's not what's at issue here in Fairfax County. Race aside, what if there are students who attend a school numerous miles away even though the under-enrolled school is around the corner? Wouldn't it make sense to add those neighboroods to the school's attendance area to allow the full panoply of curricular and extra-curricular opportunities to be offered?

THOMAS: If I accept your premise that the School Board should care about under-enrollment, then yes. But race is not a factor there.

KENNEDY: True. What about the fact that the neighborhoods have fewer families that qualify for free-and-reduced lunch, or who speak English as a second language?

THOMAS: Well, then, same result. The reason for the decision is the under-enrollment problem, and rezoning relatively close neighborhoods makes sense. The free-and-reduced lunch or ESOL character of the neighborhoods is secondary. Race has nothing to do with it.

KENNEDY: So is it fair to say that although you believe that school board should not be in the business upsetting the expectations of parents who choose to buy property in other school districts, assuming for sake of discusion that one believes a school board can do that for education-related policy reasons, one valid reason would be to even-out enrollment patterns so as to provide equal curricular and extra curricular opportunities, and that two other valid reasons are the free-and-reduced lunch or ESOL character of the neighborhoods?

THOMAS: I'd agree with that. It's not a Constitutional issue, it's an issue of what you think the proper role of the School Board is - I think the School Board should ascede to the expectations and desires of parents who live near a school but do not want their children to be zoned for that school for various personal reasons, but you think the School Board should consider rezoning as part of its larger mission of providing high quality, equal, educational opportunities to all students.

KENNEDY: If one believes the latter, you agree that Option 5 is reasonable.

THOMAS: Yes.

wierd

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wierd


Yes, weird.

Weird, stupid, and the tirade was making the point that the closest neighborhoods -- regardless of race and class -- should be redistricted, then it was in favor of taking Langley students, not Oaktons. Made a case AGAINST option 5 and for adding Langley and Herndon to the study.

Stephanie wrote:
"Do you tell me to "just go skiing" to get rid of me and stop voicing my opinouns. You know this is a free country meaning I'm allowed to say whatever I'd like here."

You’re absolutely correct. This is a free country and you are allowed to say whatever you want. (of course, some restrictions do apply)
_________________________________

Stephanie wrote:
“I even skiid one with my eyes closed. I bet you can't due that, birdLover.”

Correct again, Stephanie. I have never skied down any slope with my eyes closed. I remember one of my brothers skiing backwards which was pretty funny but I’m sure he had his eyes open.
________________________________

Stephanie wrote:
“I don't even ski! I'm very busy studying now, so I can't post for a while. Think about that.”

I am thinking about that.

Observer Wrote:
> ... Is it just due to tuition that everyone is so
> hyped about potential college credits?
>
> Is the issue of college credits the only issue you
> have with IB?

Keep in mind the difference between High Level (HL - normally two-year courses) and Standard Level (or Subsidiary Level) the SL courses that are normally one year. AP courses are one year.

Also keep in mind the difference between Full IB Diploma Graduates (who total about 5%-7% of the seniors graduating from FCPS IB schools) and the other 90+% of students who might take some random IB courses but who are NOT Diploma Candidates.

[Not all IB Diplomas Candidates actually earn it. Last year South Lakes had 55 candidates and when all the results were in 45 made it.]

-------------------

In regard to colleges, consider three issues: admission, placement, and credit.

We have discussed credit. Placement is advanced placement, the original purpose of the AP exam. Like the SAT II exam (also from the College Board, the same people who run the AP program), many students who take college level AP or IB HL exams "place out of" some of those dreadful college freshmen "survey" courses. Even without "credit" these students find they can jump right into more interesting college work.

Admission: Students in AP schools can begin taking AP courses as sophomores. By the time they apply to college in fall of senior year, many students have proved they can handle college-level work because they have already taken and passed one or several college-level courses and exams. In contrast, IB Diploma Candidates are only VERY rarely allowed to take ANY HL level exams prior to May of their senior year.

---------------
Apart from these factors no, I still do not want my children in an IB high school, in part because of the special attention given to IB Diploma Candidates. Do you believe that sort of elitism belongs in American public high schools?

Look carefully at what is actually taught in the AP and IB courses. Yes, there are differences, but what you like about IB (the emphasis on writing?) can usually be incorporated AP courses. And if you think IB and AP are about the same, then why not get rid of IB, which costs about twice as much as AP?

Hmm...if supreme court justices were really looking at this, they would most like nod off, since its a pretty trivial issue...nobody's human rights or due process are being violated here. Its an issue of local politics. The person who goes to the trouble of typing these things in is just hoping to make their arguments seems more profound by attributing them to people who didn't actually say them.

If they WERE offering sidebar commentary, in addition to the longwided diatribes I've skimmed over here, where the concern seems to be that anybody opposed to redistricting only more privileged kids froms schools south and west of South Lakes must therefore be a racist bigot, you might hear:

- the process of selecting what schools to be involved lacked consistent rationale. Distant schools and in-balance schools were selected before closer and over capacity schools.

- the cherry-picking of "advantaged" students to be redistricted, vs. less advantaged students, sounds like a priori discrimination, despite the claims that we're really just doing what's best for those poor poor kids.

- The concern over program equality lacks substance...AP vs. IB difference is larger than any difference in electives offered, but is not considered material, wheras class offering for ASL is considered important. Zzzzz.

Baffled2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Weird, stupid, and the tirade was making the point
> that the closest neighborhoods -- regardless of
> race and class -- should be redistricted, then it
> was in favor of taking Langley students, not
> Oaktons. Made a case AGAINST option 5 and for
> adding Langley and Herndon to the study.


Option #5 in my opinion is very stupid, even one of the 8 criterias provided by FCPS said the least disruptive, well these families of F/FM/M who have put roots down with their high schools have been disrupted and for those who support SL and support the boundary change for these affected communities do not give a "sheet" about how these affected families feel.

YES, Oakton Parent!

They might read this thread and wonder why a bunch of white advantaged ladies are loudly demanding that a quantity of white advantaged kids be forced to attend a "diverse" school, so there won't be such a concentration of "diverse" students. Sounds terrible, doesn't it?

Dear Baffled2..

You are too hard on the white advantaged ladies. They're open minded enough to accept advantaged asians as well..in some ways they may be preferable, since they tend not to be as active politically. Just be sure they don't need ESOL classes.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> > ... Is it just due to tuition that everyone is
> so
> > hyped about potential college credits?
> >
> > Is the issue of college credits the only issue
> you
> > have with IB?
>
> Keep in mind the difference between High Level (HL
> - normally two-year courses) and Standard Level
> (or Subsidiary Level) the SL courses that are
> normally one year. AP courses are one year.
>
> Also keep in mind the difference between Full IB
> Diploma Graduates (who total about 5%-7% of the
> seniors graduating from FCPS IB schools) and the
> other 90+% of students who might take some random
> IB courses but who are NOT Diploma Candidates.
>
>
>
> -------------------
>
> In regard to colleges, consider three issues:
> admission, placement, and credit.
>
> We have discussed credit. Placement is advanced
> placement, the original purpose of the AP exam.
> Like the SAT II exam (also from the College Board,
> the same people who run the AP program), many
> students who take college level AP or IB HL exams
> "place out of" some of those dreadful college
> freshmen "survey" courses. Even without "credit"
> these students find they can jump right into more
> interesting college work.
>
> Admission: Students in AP schools can begin taking
> AP courses as sophomores. By the time they apply
> to college in fall of senior year, many students
> have proved they can handle college-level work
> because they have already taken and passed one or
> several college-level courses and exams. In
> contrast, IB Diploma Candidates are only VERY
> rarely allowed to take ANY HL level exams prior to
> May of their senior year.
>
> ---------------
> Apart from these factors no, I still do not want
> my children in an IB high school, in part because
> of the special attention given to IB Diploma
> Candidates. Do you believe that sort of elitism
> belongs in American public high schools?
>
> Look carefully at what is actually taught in the
> AP and IB courses. Yes, there are differences, but
> what you like about IB (the emphasis on writing?)
> can usually be incorporated AP courses. And if you
> think IB and AP are about the same, then why not
> get rid of IB, which costs about twice as much as
> AP?

Thanks, your points do indeed make sense.

Look behind you. What do you see? Invariably, there will be a wall somewhere in your view. Now stare deeply into the space on the wall that lines up best with your eyes. Nothing will happen, but make sure you are clear on where this particular spot is. That spot contains all the negativity in your mind. Whenever you are on your computer, reading scary stories or whatever you do, sometimes you will get spooked. What do you do when this happens? You check behind you, thats what you do. As you read this now, a feeling of dread will come over you. Check the spot. Nothing again, huh? Thats because right now, all the evil is locked safely in your mind. Some people, upon learning of this "negative spot" resolve to remove the spot in an attempt to remove the negative energy. This is a grave mistake. You must never let harm come to this spot. If you do, you will have released the energy. Now when you sit at your computer at night, you will feel chills even in the summer time. The feeling of dread that only presented itself when you were genuinely scared will now hang in the air constantly. Within a week you and your loved ones will have a string of bad luck. Within a month your computer will begin to act erratic and eventually break down. On the anniversary of the spot's destruction, you will dream of your most horrible fears. The dream will seem to go on forever, and when you wake up you will notice your vision has darkened. Every year on the same day, the dream will repeat itself, and your vision will grow darker and darker. After you go totally blind, dont ever turn your back on that spot again. That is if you can still tell where it is.

Is this what they teach at South Lakes?

The South Lakes PTSA Yahoo Group Secret Society had to really scramble today and all they came up with was “Matt”?

Think about that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2008 09:56PM by VaDriver.

Quantum, the first step in improving education in Massachusetts was teacher testing. When they first initiated testing requirements for teachers 10 or so years ago, I remember reading that over 50% failed. Failing teachers were replaced with better ones. The State then initiated testing based in part of Virginia Standards of Learning. It sounds like they have bested Fairfax County by introducing rigorous phonics-based education.

Side note: Abigail Thernstrom also is Vice-Chair on the US Commission on Civil Rights. A former chairperson tried and failed, using questionable tactics, to have her removed. She was firmly behind Bush on No Child Left Behind. It would be nice if we had someone of her mettle advocating for Fairfax students.

Reston Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Between 1987 and 1997 there have been steady
> decline of student population. I think one of the
> obvious reasons is the aging of Reston
> neighborhoods.
>
> Enrollment information for South Lakes High
> Year Caucasian Afr Am.Hispanic Asian
> Am.Indian Total
> 1987 0 0 0 0 0 2241
> 1989 0 0 0 0 0 2113
> 1990 0 0 0 0 0 1969
> 1991 0 0 0 0 0 1970
> 1992 0 0 0 0 0 1979
> 1993 1216 313 161 149 2 1841
> 1994 1152 351 192 157 2 1854
> 1995 1031 340 202 164 3 1740
> 1996 1031 340 202 164 3 1740
> 1997 966 356 187 164 3 1676
> 1998 981 326 189 173 3 1672
> 1999 941 328 203 180 5 1657
> 2000 952 342 206 171 3 1670
> 2001 967 321 226 180 2 1696
> 2002 845 314 270 186 2 1655
> 2003 845 314 270 186 2 1655
> 2004 825 336 263 184 3 1657
> 2005 741 350 256 187 3 1602
> 2006 716 318 254 175 4 1546

The elephant in this entire room is hiding in plain sight in column 2.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, my name is Stephanie,
>
> For those of you who were wondering wear I was
> yesterday Ill tell you now. BirdLover told me to
> go sking which I was planing on doing anyway but
> it must have made her happy to think she made me
> go. But yes, I did go sking and I think I probably
> had more fun then her children who were also
> sking. I skiid every black diamond trail multiple
> times. I even skiid one with my eyes closed. I
> bet you can't due that, birdLover. I never got
> cold because I have excellent clthes. Im a spoied
> brat and I can buy anythink I want. Anyways, my
> hands stayed nice and warm with my new gortex
> globes so hear I am back at my computer after
> haveing a blast. Hows Neen been.


Ahhhh, how I love being made fun of by people who have no clue of who I actually am. First of all, I am not that stupid, I might not be the greatest speller but gloves? Come on. Spoiled brat, yes I will give you that. I've been blessed with a family who cares, a beautiful home, an education in perhaps the best county throughout the US, many great friends, and amazing siblings. I've never had to worry about what I've needed because I've always recieved it, and I have never been without food or clothing. I'm not even mentioning all the things I posess that are truly pointless in life, like the car I could live without, the closet full of clothes that I simply bought because they looked nice, or the cell phone and IPod I constantly have with me. But I'll tell you why I'm thankful of these things, and how I came to realize I'm the spoiled brat you just called me. Maybe it's because I've taken a look around my school and I've seen those who are forced to wear the same sweatshirt because in reality it's the only thing they have to keep warm. The students who live off free and reduced lunch and actually eat the lunch their given because they know when they go home they don't have the fridge full of food that I'm used to. The kids who don't hang out every weekend with their friends because they can't afford to blow ten dollars on a movie or twenty on dinner. I've seen these people, and I go to school with these people. But you know what? They're the same as everyone else. They appreciate everything in life just as much as I do if not more. They breathe the same air, they walk the same ground as me, and they feel the same things I do. People talk about those who "have not" as someone referred as though these people are infected with a disease. Let's get over ourselves! They're people and they deserve every right to the education that you're children currently recieve at Oakton, Westfield, and Chantilly.

The problem is you say our school system isn't strong. I'm not saying I agree with you on this because I believe South Lakes is strong, but anyways, how do you expect South Lakes to change if we don't have the rescources to do so? And I know your going to hate me for saying this but students in this case are rescources. They're rescources to better test scores, more teachers, more funding, and more class selection. South Lakes is already a very strong school, this will just make it stronger, and balance the numbers throughout the county. The fact is FCPS has needed to do this for a while. Why they havn't I couldn't tell you, but it's about time they did. Things need to be evened out, and if you don't like the idea of this then well there's not much to be done. This is a public school system, if you want more go private.

wet dogs smell

Think about that, I mean you Baffled, and you Mike and BirdLover,especilly you, BirdLover and the rest of you, Neen and even you Forum Reader or Quantum, I get you too mixed up, whatever. Anyway I think you get my point.

Stephanie Wrote:
> ... even you Forum Reader or
> Quantum, I get you too mixed up, whatever. Anyway
> I think you get my point.

---
Stephanie,
As I wrote earlier, I purposely avoid responding to your comments because I do not want to appear to be picking on a child. However, this time you specifically mention me.

No, I have no idea what your point is. Could you rephrase it using clear, concise, newspaper-style paragraphs?

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, a recent blurb by the City Journal's
> Sol Stern on that great conservative bastion
> (ahem) known as the Commonwealth of
> Massachussetts. Good to know that what counts is
> what works rather than politics. In any event,
> below is a part of the article - think anyone in
> Fairfax is listening?
>
> ____________________
>
> Those in the school reform movement seeking a case
> of truly spectacular academic improvement should
> look to Massachusetts, where something close to an
> education miracle has occurred. In the past
> several years, Massachusetts has improved more
> than almost every other state on the NAEP tests.
> In 2007, it scored first in the nation in fourth-
> and eighth-grade math and reading. The state’s
> average scale scores on all four tests have also
> improved at far higher rates than most other
> states have seen over the past 15 years.
>
> The improvement had nothing to do with market
> incentives. Massachusetts has no vouchers, no
> tuition tax credits, very few charter schools, and
> no market incentives for principals and teachers.
> The state owes its amazing improvement in student
> performance to a few key former education leaders,
> including state education board chairman John
> Silber, assistant commissioner Sandra Stotsky, and
> board member (and Manhattan Institute fellow)
> Abigail Thernstrom. Starting a decade ago, these
> instructionists pushed the state’s board of
> education to mandate a rigorous curriculum for all
> grades, created demanding tests linked to the
> curriculum standards, and insisted that all high
> school graduates pass a comprehensive exit exam.
> In its English Language Arts curriculum framework,
> the board even dared to say that reading
> instruction in the early grades should include
> systematic and explicit phonics. Now a professor
> of education reform at the University of Arkansas,
> Stotsky sums up: “The lesson from Massachusetts is
> that a strong content–based curriculum, together
> with upgraded certification regulations and
> teacher licensure tests that require teacher
> preparation programs to address that content, can
> be the best recipe for improving students’
> academic achievement.”


Oh my, that sounded so good, right up until the mention of explicit phonics. That won't fly here. It's against everything our democrat school board supports. It is simply against their ideology and cannot be used, even though it is now well known to work. No matter. They would rather poor black children not learn to read. Their political ideology is more important. Ditto math. We're stuck with Everyday Math when across the country it has proven to lead to a decline in math scores, especially in inner cities and among the poor. No matter. It fits their absurd political views so our kids are stuck with it. In FCPS, political ideology trumps the needs of children, every time.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think about that, I mean you Baffled, and you Mike
> and BirdLover,especilly you, BirdLover and the
> rest of you, Neen and even you Forum Reader or
> Quantum, I get you too mixed up, whatever. Anyway
> I think you get my point.

No dear, we are not getting your point. I am sorry. Perhaps you need more sleep.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reston Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Between 1987 and 1997 there have been steady
> > decline of student population. I think one of
> the
> > obvious reasons is the aging of Reston
> > neighborhoods.
> >
> > Enrollment information for South Lakes High
> > Year Caucasian Afr Am.Hispanic Asian
> > Am.Indian Total
> > 1987 0 0 0 0 0 2241
> > 1989 0 0 0 0 0 2113
> > 1990 0 0 0 0 0 1969
> > 1991 0 0 0 0 0 1970
> > 1992 0 0 0 0 0 1979
> > 1993 1216 313 161 149 2 1841
> > 1994 1152 351 192 157 2 1854
> > 1995 1031 340 202 164 3 1740
> > 1996 1031 340 202 164 3 1740
> > 1997 966 356 187 164 3 1676
> > 1998 981 326 189 173 3 1672
> > 1999 941 328 203 180 5 1657
> > 2000 952 342 206 171 3 1670
> > 2001 967 321 226 180 2 1696
> > 2002 845 314 270 186 2 1655
> > 2003 845 314 270 186 2 1655
> > 2004 825 336 263 184 3 1657
> > 2005 741 350 256 187 3 1602
> > 2006 716 318 254 175 4 1546
>
> The elephant in this entire room is hiding in
> plain sight in column 2.

A decline of 500 White students over 13 years? Yes, that is exactly the problem. Blacks are very consistent, between 313 and 356. Asians are consistent too, always between 149 and 175. Hispanics have increased, but by fewer than 100. The problem is Whites steadily opting out. Perhaps only whites age in Reston? :)

Baffled2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YES, Oakton Parent!
>
> They might read this thread and wonder why a bunch
> of white advantaged ladies are loudly demanding
> that a quantity of white advantaged kids be forced
> to attend a "diverse" school, so there won't be
> such a concentration of "diverse" students.
> Sounds terrible, doesn't it?

AT best, it sounds confusing. But yes, they do want to change the ratio of disadvantaged students to advantaged students by snatching advantaged students from other schools. Apparently more money and more teachers won't solve their problem. It has to be more advantaged children from other schools.

Oh, very funny all of you. Glad your haveing a great time. That was not me posting earlier just so you know. I can see that most of you are probabaly angry with me because I have more then you have. So, jealousy rearing its ugly little head. EH? And to think that you don't want your kids at South Lakes because of all the kids on free lunch. So make up your minds. What is your problem here, the kids on free lunch or privlegded kids, more privledged then your kids. I think this is something that needs to taken care of.
And for Quantom, are you happy with this paragraph that you and so many of others like you seem to love, and I won't mention a certain name who seems to be obsessed with paragraphs. These are details that are not worh my time and shouldn't be interesting to you. I would never write like a newspaper reporter since that would be lowering my standards, just so you know. Hard to think you would suggest that but I shouldn't be surprised.

I thought you said you were taking physics? If so, then you should know how to spell Quantum.

Believe me, Stephanie, you do not have more than anyone else here. Many of us live in parts of the county other than Reston. You have NO idea how much we have. I can assure you that jealousy is not an issue.

I have no idea which Stephanie is you, and which is not. I am sorry this has happened to you.

Please, be the first young person posting here who learns when to use your and you're. If you mean you are, you need to use you're. Such as you're having a good time, meaning you are having a good time. Your is a possessive pronoun, such as your beautiful clothes, your great car, or your big house.

I am more than a bit concerned that the lauded IB program is not teaching you how to write.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Oh my, that sounded so good, right up until the
> mention of explicit phonics. That won't fly here.
> It's against everything our democrat school board
> supports. It is simply against their ideology and
> cannot be used, even though it is now well known
> to work. No matter. They would rather poor black
> children not learn to read. Their political
> ideology is more important. Ditto math. We're
> stuck with Everyday Math when across the country
> it has proven to lead to a decline in math scores,
> especially in inner cities and among the poor. No
> matter. It fits their absurd political views so
> our kids are stuck with it. In FCPS, political
> ideology trumps the needs of children, every time.


Your rants against FCPS and the school board, based on ideology are getting rather old. You have no proof that "political ideology trumps the needs of children every time."
Again, since you know what is best for children, what the best political ideology is, how to teach children reading and math, what school boards should do, what TJ's admission's policies should be, who should go to what school, how Stephanie should write (despite many instances of your own grammar goofs/typos), how to improve SL's feeder ES's and on and on, when dear Neen, will we see you running for the school board?

SL Verity,

Do you know if the Massachusetts school districts took a hardnosed approach regarding teachers who couldn't pass teacher qualification tests, or whether they bent over backwards to give teachers multiple chances to retake the tests?

Also, do you know what FCPS requires for current and long-time teachers, in terms of teacher qualification scores on the PRAXIS or other exams?

A few years ago, an FCPS administrator told me that she had a new job within FCPS - helping prepare people who had already failed the PRAXIS tests to take them again. She believed FCPS should not care whether new teachers passed these PRAXIS tests, and looked horrified when I told her that I would not want my children to have a teacher who couldn't pass these tests easily. FCPS must have agreed with her, because why else would FCPS create that position?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum, the first step in improving education in
> Massachusetts was teacher testing. When they
> first initiated testing requirements for teachers
> 10 or so years ago, I remember reading that over
> 50% failed. Failing teachers were replaced with
> better ones. The State then initiated testing
> based in part of Virginia Standards of Learning.
> It sounds like they have bested Fairfax County by
> introducing rigorous phonics-based education.
>
> Side note: Abigail Thernstrom also is Vice-Chair
> on the US Commission on Civil Rights. A former
> chairperson tried and failed, using questionable
> tactics, to have her removed. She was firmly
> behind Bush on No Child Left Behind. It would be
> nice if we had someone of her mettle advocating
> for Fairfax students.

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Oh my, that sounded so good, right up until the
> > mention of explicit phonics. That won't fly
> here.
> > It's against everything our democrat school
> board
> > supports. It is simply against their ideology
> and
> > cannot be used, even though it is now well
> known
> > to work. No matter. They would rather poor
> black
> > children not learn to read. Their political
> > ideology is more important. Ditto math. We're
> > stuck with Everyday Math when across the
> country
> > it has proven to lead to a decline in math
> scores,
> > especially in inner cities and among the poor.
> No
> > matter. It fits their absurd political views
> so
> > our kids are stuck with it. In FCPS, political
> > ideology trumps the needs of children, every
> time.
>
>
> Your rants against FCPS and the school board,
> based on ideology are getting rather old. You
> have no proof that "political ideology trumps the
> needs of children every time."
> Again, since you know what is best for children,
> what the best political ideology is, how to teach
> children reading and math, what school boards
> should do, what TJ's admission's policies should
> be, who should go to what school, how Stephanie
> should write (despite many instances of your own
> grammar goofs/typos), how to improve SL's feeder
> ES's and on and on, when dear Neen, will we see
> you running for the school board?


At least Neen won't say one thing and then mean another thing such as what Stu did with North Point Village (North Reston) and not supporting any boundary changes back then til now and still ignoring North Point Village (North Reston).

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity,
>
> Do you know if the Massachusetts school districts
> took a hardnosed approach regarding teachers who
> couldn't pass teacher qualification tests, or
> whether they bent over backwards to give teachers
> multiple chances to retake the tests?
>
> Also, do you know what FCPS requires for current
> and long-time teachers, in terms of teacher
> qualification scores on the PRAXIS or other
> exams?
>
> A few years ago, an FCPS administrator told me
> that she had a new job within FCPS - helping
> prepare people who had already failed the PRAXIS
> tests to take them again. She believed FCPS should
> not care whether new teachers passed these PRAXIS
> tests, and looked horrified when I told her that I
> would not want my children to have a teacher who
> couldn't pass these tests easily. FCPS must have
> agreed with her, because why else would FCPS
> create that position?
>


FCPS doesn't set the cut off scores for teacher qualification tests. The State does; VA has one of the higher cut offs in comparison to other states, meaning it is more difficult to pass the test in VA than many other states.

Historically the individuals that had difficulty passing the tests were people entering the teaching field after another career, and they might be teaching History, with a masters degree in that field, but have difficulty with the math section of the test..particularly if they haven't attended college or graduate school for a bit. Perhaps the administrator was assisting those individuals...who needed a quick boost on algebraic expression etc. Meaning the person is a wonderful/gifted history teacher, who didn't take many math courses, or it has been a while since they did.

I agree one would expect all teachers to pass those tests, but perhaps the administrator was thinking, "I would rather have someone with a masters teaching history who needs to retake the math section than a teacher with a liberal arts/education BA relearning the history the night before the next chapter, who passed the math section the first go around."

At any rate, VA's cut off is known to be one of the higher ones.

Observer,

Why do you believe that people entering teaching as a second career are the ones who fail the PRAXIS?

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > A few years ago, an FCPS administrator told me
> > that she had a new job within FCPS - helping
> > prepare people who had already failed the
> PRAXIS
> > tests to take them again. She believed FCPS
> should
> > not care whether new teachers passed these
> PRAXIS
> > tests, and looked horrified when I told her that
> I
> > would not want my children to have a teacher
> who
> > couldn't pass these tests easily. FCPS must
> have
> > agreed with her, because why else would FCPS
> > create that position?
> > >
> > Historically the individuals that had difficulty
> passing the tests were people entering the
> teaching field after another career, and they
> might be teaching History, with a masters degree
> in that field, but have difficulty with the math
> section of the test..particularly if they haven't
> attended college or graduate school for a bit.
> Perhaps the administrator was assisting those
> individuals...who needed a quick boost on
> algebraic expression etc. Meaning the person is a
> wonderful/gifted history teacher, who didn't take
> many math courses, or it has been a while since
> they did.

AP or IB, I don't know the answer about Mass. I seem to remember that they were pretty tough in their approach, but obviously a state can't afford to lose 50% of their teachers at once. I believe that prior to these events, teachers did not have to take any kind of standards tests in Mass.

I took the Praxis tests several years ago, when thinking about earning a masters in teaching. Entering graduate students take them before coursework and again after completing their coursework. I did have to brush up on my algebra and geometry - I had not had a math course in twenty years - but I just used the little prep books. I also had to review the English portions pretty thoroughly, because the tests involved things like sentence diagramming that I had not done for years. I did have help from a math wizard spouse to which I suppose others like me may not have access.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2008 09:19AM by SLVerity.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer,
>
> Why do you believe that people entering teaching
> as a second career are the ones who fail the
> PRAXIS?
>
>

I am in the field, and those are the individuals I hear about most, and it is as I stated primarily due to the math section and older applicants not having had math for a bit.

Education colleges have their students take the Praxis while taking courses, and if there are serious concerns (failing those tests) they encourage another major instead of teaching, rather than having the person retake the tests numerous times.

Stephanie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...no clue of who I actually am.
> ...perhaps the best county throughout the US...
> The problem is you say our school system isn't
> strong. I'm not saying I agree with you on this
> because I believe South Lakes is strong, but
> anyways, how do you expect South Lakes to change
> if we don't have the rescources to do so? And I
> know your going to hate me for saying this but
> students in this case are rescources. They're
> rescources to better test scores, more teachers,
> more funding, and more class selection. South
> Lakes is already a very strong school, this will
> just make it stronger, and balance the numbers
> throughout the county. The fact is FCPS has needed
> to do this for a while. Why they havn't I couldn't
> tell you, but it's about time they did. Things
> need to be evened out, and if you don't like the
> idea of this then well there's not much to be
> done. This is a public school system, if you want
> more go private.

It is a public school system and students at South Lakes get more resources now per capita than students at Oakton based on the demographics, IB, and yes even for coaches-band-music etc since they are doled out per school not numbers enrolled. SL's gets some staffing based on enrolled students. Any higher level IB student is a real drain since they have the IB coordinator position. Each IB course costs more than it's AP counterpart.

The South Lakes renovation WAS NOT a true renovation which is updating HVAC, electrical, windows [if they exist or carving out some new ones], bathrooms, etc. South Lakes got a NEW BUILDING or TRANSFORMATION including an ADDITION.

To make this particularly disgusting, Strauss and Gibson built at Langley and pre-planned who would go to South Lakes. Detriment of pre-planning? Lying to multiple residents about the purpose of the Westfield addition - missrepresenting a bond referendum - violating the EEOA [purposefully bussing away from closer schools to avoid persons of color,etc.]- abuing fiscal responsibility.

North Point has always wanted to avoid South Lakes due to the demographics [high % of African Americans] and now low and behold Herndon has the portion of McNair etc that includes Alabama ave yielding high numbers of anchor babies. Westfield has the other portion of Mcnair which South Lakes has blasted. That portion has a significant Asian population.

Who is suffering in this mess? We're all paying more money for Langley to avoid South lakes and Herndon and North Point/Aldrin to avoid South Lakes. I am totally unwilling to have a tax rate increase and expect the accessed value of my residence to decrease.

First of all the school should give the option of choosing between IB and AP program. The IB program is more geared towards to kids who face frequent transfers and that they can get a broad coverage in their education. However the IB program is not for everyone.To get the diploma a student has to fullfill certain hours of community service, essays etc to receive the IB diploma. If the student does not want a IB diploma then they can choose the general education route and not get the IB diploma.
My point is not every kid has the time to do these community service and other extra activity to earn a IB diploma. Take for example a student who is in a sport that requires about 18 hrs of training per week. It is physically not possible to do anything other than train for the sport and do his/her studies. For such people AP is the best option.
So, the school has to give both the choices. Simply thrusting down on option is not a good way to attract students to the school. Considering the fact that Floris and Rachel Carson community has been redistricted several times the school board better mend its ways.
Mike

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all the school should give the option of
> choosing between IB and AP program. The IB program
> is more geared towards to kids who face frequent
> transfers and that they can get a broad coverage
> in their education. However the IB program is not
> for everyone.To get the diploma a student has to
> fullfill certain hours of community service,
> essays etc to receive the IB diploma. If the
> student does not want a IB diploma then they can
> choose the general education route and not get the
> IB diploma.
> My point is not every kid has the time to do these
> community service and other extra activity to earn
> a IB diploma. Take for example a student who is in
> a sport that requires about 18 hrs of training per
> week. It is physically not possible to do anything
> other than train for the sport and do his/her
> studies. For such people AP is the best option.
> So, the school has to give both the choices.
> Simply thrusting down on option is not a good way
> to attract students to the school. Considering the
> fact that Floris and Rachel Carson community has
> been redistricted several times the school board
> better mend its ways.
> Mike


Right and Fox Mill and Madison Island have had long relationships with Oakton and Madison---this boundary study needs to be redone and made right and those living from these affected communities can PUPIL PLACE to SL if they wish to.

taxpayer Wrote:
> ... The South Lakes renovation WAS NOT a true
> renovation which is updating HVAC, electrical,
> windows , bathrooms, etc. South Lakes got a NEW
> BUILDING or TRANSFORMATION including an ADDITION.

Please clarify. What did South Lakes get that does not come under the category of an FCPS renovation? Drive by Woodson on Main Street right next to Fairfax City and see all the construction work. Its current renovation includes FIVE additions.

What a difference between Langley http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:797858279626093::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:020
Funny Boundaries for Langley as well. It is a shame that some of these kids are forced to endure such a long commute to Langley. I bet there are some Langley parents who are really upset with the SB Staff for not including them in this RD.http://www.fcps.edu/images/boundarymaps/langleyhs.pdf

South Lakes Boundaries and Demographics

http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:7441207547535069::::P0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:320

http://www.fcps.edu/images/boundarymaps/southlakeshs.pdf

Mike Wrote:
> First of all the school should give the option of
> choosing between IB and AP program. ...
> For such people AP is the best option.
> So, the school has to give both the choices.
> Simply thrusting down on option is not a good way
> to attract students to the school.

It just does not work that way in FCPS. A school has either AP or IB BUT NOT BOTH. Even huge Robinson, arguably the largest IB school in the world, offers only six AP courses.

In some other public school systems like George Mason High School in Falls Church, both programs are offered but that school spends far more pupil than do Fairfax County high schools.