Is there any elementary school in FCPS that is not a split feeder? Granted, most of them only split between 2 middle schools. Is there any middle school that doesn't split to high school? As far as I know, all of Thoreau goes to Madison, but I may be wrong about that. I know that Kilmer feeds to several high schools, including Marshall and Madison.

"Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled (IP Logged)
Date: February 07, 2008 08:16PM


GOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good Republicans are supposed to be fiscally
> responsible. It is not fiscally reponsible to
> build an building that is not needed when
> subdivisions can be redistricted to adjacent
> school pyramids. Liz Bradsher is no Republican.


It is probably easier to redistrict two high schools with similar programs and both are AP based as opposed to AP based high schools to an IB high school. LBSS and SCSS are AP based, is that right?"


Hayfield, Lake Braddock, South County are not only AP-curriculum schools, they are ALL secondary schools (grade 7-12). Lake Braddock has much higher scores than South County and a brand-new renovated facility. There are students much further south and east of the northwest thumb of SCSS that are in the LB area. Their bus rides would be longer than anything the Silverbrook area would have to travel. In fact, GT kids who would otherwise attend South County already go to Lake Braddock.

bruin Wrote:
> Hayfield, Lake Braddock, South County are not only
> AP-curriculum schools, they are ALL secondary
> schools (grade 7-12). Lake Braddock has much
> higher scores than South County and a brand-new
> renovated facility. There are students much
> further south and east of the northwest thumb of
> SCSS that are in the LB area. Their bus rides
> would be longer than anything the Silverbrook area
> would have to travel. In fact, GT kids who would
> otherwise attend South County already go to Lake
> Braddock.

--------
I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you suggesting moving the northwest part of Silverbrook to LBSS? About how many students per grade would that be?

My point is that the subdivisions that are west of Hooes and north of Silverbrook which is currently in the SCSS area could easily go to Lake Braddock thus alleviating some overcapacity at SC and utilizing empty seats at LB.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truthteller Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> The boundary process hasn't been honest for
> years.
> > They start with what they want and then fit
> the
> > rules and process to obtain the desired
> outcome.
>
> It didn't work very well this time, did it? I
> doubt they will try to do it this way again.


They will do it this Fall at South County

bruin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point is that the subdivisions that are west of
> Hooes and north of Silverbrook which is currently
> in the SCSS area could easily go to Lake Braddock
> thus alleviating some overcapacity at SC and
> utilizing empty seats at LB.

----------
Thank you. If that is about fifty students per grade, you have a logical solution.

In 2012, LBSS grades 7-8 are projected to have 102 empty seats while SCSS grades 7-8 are projected to be overcrowded by 124.

At the high school level, LBSS is projected to have 502 empty seats while SCSS is projected to be overcrowded by 192.

The only problem would be if FCPS decides to push its concept of 2,000 seat high schools. Assuming some leeway, say 1700-2300 studetns per high school, that would indicate LBSS should have no more than 2300 high school seats and thus 1150 "regular" middle school seats.

That would leave LBSS with about 625 empty seats. (actually less, because LBSS has about 300 in its GT center). These "empty seats" might be filled with less popular courses with students bused in academy-style from other schools.

And if FCPS sticks to its new-found 2,000 seat ideal, then obviously SCSS should remain just that, a secondary school.

And make Mt Vernon a secondary school the same size, with fills all those empty seats.

bruin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point is that the subdivisions that are west of
> Hooes and north of Silverbrook which is currently
> in the SCSS area could easily go to Lake Braddock
> thus alleviating some overcapacity at SC and
> utilizing empty seats at LB.

Why is the school board only looking at Silverbrook? I thought they may send Newington Forest or Silverbrookto LB, am I missing something?

?????? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bruin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My point is that the subdivisions that are west
> of
> > Hooes and north of Silverbrook which is
> currently
> > in the SCSS area could easily go to Lake
> Braddock
> > thus alleviating some overcapacity at SC and
> > utilizing empty seats at LB.
>
> Why is the school board only looking at
> Silverbrook? I thought they may send Newington
> Forest or Silverbrookto LB, am I missing
> something?


They aren't looking at anything yet. Most of those seats are projected to be empty but aren't currently..and haven't been emptying fast enough.

We can take some maybe but not 400. South Lakes, Falls Church and Mount Vernon all have empty seats now that will stay that way

The SB should use South Lakes, Falls Church and Mt. Vernon 1st. Sounds like the FCPS have empty seats, but the SB will not use these seats.

???????? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The SB should use South Lakes, Falls Church and
> Mt. Vernon 1st. Sounds like the FCPS have empty
> seats, but the SB will not use these seats.

They renovate them with $50 million renoivations and throw IB in them and hope that that people will come.

Stu will put people in South Lakes if he gets his way. Kaye/Phil won't for Falls Church and neither will Dan for Mount Vernon

So the school board will not use empty seats at Mt. Vernon, Hayfield, Falls Church, and other lower performing schools because, why???? Do the school board members enjoy putting schools through boundary studies every year? The FCPS need ALL boundary readjusted. Maybe then some schools can be helped. What a waste of time and tax $$$.

What day does board present final decision? Thanks in advance.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there any elementary school in FCPS that is not
> a split feeder? Granted, most of them only split
> between 2 middle schools. Is there any middle
> school that doesn't split to high school? As far
> as I know, all of Thoreau goes to Madison, but I
> may be wrong about that. I know that Kilmer feeds
> to several high schools, including Marshall and
> Madison.

Thoreau has always been split between Madison and Marshall.

decision time Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What day does board present final decision? Thanks
> in advance.

Feb. 28th

Gibson questions on Floris and Madison Island - posted today supporting 2/11/08 work session

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

Neen asks:
"Is there any elementary school in FCPS that is not a split feeder? Granted, most of them only split between 2 middle schools. Is there any middle school that doesn't split to high school? As far as I know, all of Thoreau goes to Madison, but I may be wrong about that. I know that Kilmer feeds to several high schools, including Marshall and Madison."

I don't understand this question. Are you considering GT centers for middle schools in this? If not, I think most elementary schools are not split feeders. Doing this from memory, for example, Dogwood, Terraset, Lake Anne feed to Hughes only; Fox Mill and Floris feed to Carson, etc etc. Hughes goes only to South Lakes I believe. The redistricting charts show this data for the western boundary study elementary schools.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen asks:
> "Is there any elementary school in FCPS that is
> not a split feeder? Granted, most of them only
> split between 2 middle schools. Is there any
> middle school that doesn't split to high school?
> As far as I know, all of Thoreau goes to Madison,
> but I may be wrong about that. I know that Kilmer
> feeds to several high schools, including Marshall
> and Madison."
>
> I don't understand this question. Are you
> considering GT centers for middle schools in this?
> If not, I think most elementary schools are not
> split feeders. Doing this from memory, for
> example, Dogwood, Terraset, Lake Anne feed to
> Hughes only; Fox Mill and Floris feed to Carson,
> etc etc. Hughes goes only to South Lakes I
> believe. The redistricting charts show this data
> for the western boundary study elementary schools.

And don't forget Hunters Woods (a magnet school) that feeds to Hughes, then SL. I think there is another ES that feeds to Hughes too. Have to look up from the FCPS website.

Union Mill does not split. Liberty MS does not split. CVHS pyramid.

TO

JACK DALE AND THE SCHOOL BOARD



I have no idea what you are doing, but if you use your numbers from the CIP report each cluster will have the following + or - numbers by 2012.

CLUSTER 1 -325 STUDENTS

CLUSTER 2 -836 STUDENTS

CLUSTER 3 +51 STUDENTS

CLUSTER 4 -1135 STUDENTS

CLUSTER 5 +54 STUDENTS

CLUSTER 6 -841 STUDENTS

CLUSTER 7 -22 STUDENTS

CLUSTER 8 -1070 STUDENTS

I suggest that you stop any plans for building new schools and complete boundary studies for all eight clusters.

The above numbers suggest that you will have over 4100 empty seats in high schools by the year 2012.

Once again you have failed to do your job.

Everyone who is against redistricting should attend this protest and show the school board and Jack Dale that the people will not take anymore bull shit from them.


A community protest against Fairfax County’s unpopular school redistricting proposal for West County will be held tomorrow morning at 8:30am at Jackson Middle School in Falls Church.

If the school board and J.Dale will hurt disadvantaged children, what do you think they will do to you regarding redistricting?

To;


JACK DALE AND SCHOOL BOARD

The following questions need to be asked;

Why have you trimmed programs that serve minority and disadvantaged students? As you know these are the students that need the most help from FCPS.

Why not save 100 million dollars from gatehouse 2 and use it in order to make up your revenue shortage?

NO BUDGETS CUTS FOR MINORITY AND DISADVANTAGED
STUDENTS.

If you more ahead with your proposed cuts to minority and disadvantaged students, YOU NEED TO TELL ME HOW YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT.

FACTS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the school board and J.Dale will hurt
> disadvantaged children, what do you think they
> will do to you regarding redistricting?
>
> To;
>
>
> JACK DALE AND SCHOOL BOARD
>
> The following questions need to be asked;
>
> Why have you trimmed programs that serve minority
> and disadvantaged students? As you know these are
> the students that need the most help from FCPS.
>
> Why not save 100 million dollars from gatehouse 2
> and use it in order to make up your revenue
> shortage?
>
> NO BUDGETS CUTS FOR MINORITY AND DISADVANTAGED
> STUDENTS.
>
> If you more ahead with your proposed cuts to
> minority and disadvantaged students, YOU NEED TO
> TELL ME HOW YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT.


And yet FCPS made a statement from the budget report which caused a soda I was drinking to nearly choke me. FCPS said this:

"FCPS Spends Money Wisely"

Truthteller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Truthteller Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >> The boundary process hasn't been honest for
> > years.
> > > They start with what they want and then fit
> > the
> > > rules and process to obtain the desired
> > outcome.
> >
> > It didn't work very well this time, did it? I
> > doubt they will try to do it this way again.
>
>
> They will do it this Fall at South County

Yes, the will redistrict again, they just won't use this method of phony community meetings. They can't again pretend that the community decides anything.

>>>Stu will put people in South Lakes if he gets his way. Kaye/Phil won't for Falls Church and neither will Dan for Mount Vernon<<<<

Does anyone know why that is?

>>>The above numbers suggest that you will have over 4100 empty seats in high schools by the year 2012.<<<

THAT is totally amazing! Why on earth did they build South County? And why did they bother to renovate South Lakes, rather than just close it?

FCPS is wasting SOOOOO Much money. Of course we ALL pay for the waste.

EMAIL THE SOB'S UNTIL THEY QUIT. FILL UP THEIR IN BOX AND TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THEM.

SchoolBoardMEmbers@fcps.edu

Jack.Dale@fcps.edu

BRING THEM TO THEIR KNEES.

Go Read This Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gibson questions on Floris and Madison Island -
> posted today supporting 2/11/08 work session
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
> blic?OpenFrameSet


Some very interesting data there. Including, 57 parents at South Lakes, this year, requested to pupil place their child OUT of South Lakes while only 7 parents pupil placed IN to South Lakes.

>>>3.why have we not looked at high school boundaries comprehensively,
countywide?
Staff undertook a countywide study in 1984. The issue of undertaking a countywide study was
part of the School Board’s discussion when determining the scope of the West County
Boundary Study in July 2007. The problems with undertaking a county -wide study are complex
and numerous, and would, in staff’s view, not efficiently or expeditiously provide solutions
currently needed for boundary adjustments to address enrollment imbalances. Developing a
process to adequately deal with the magnitude of a countywide study would be time consuming
in addition to determining what the criteria for the study should be, e.g., transportation
distances, minimum and maximum enrollments, impacts on feeder schools and programs, etc.<<<

Reasons why there can't be a magnet at South Lakes:
>>>increased operational cost of establishing another magnet school similar to
Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology (TJHSST), there are also facilities
considerations. The current TJHSST occupies a conventional high school building that was
closed to allow the entire building to be converted to house TJHSST. The TJHSST program
requires significantly more capacity and square footage for laboratory space than a typical high
school. Consequently, the operating capacity of the existing building was reduced to
accommodate the lab space. There is not enough capacity available in the western county
schools to absorb high school enrollment with one less building (if South Lakes were closed and
converted to a TJHSST), nor is there sufficient capacity available at South Lakes to operate
both the regular high school and a magnet school in the building. The South Lakes renovation
that will be completed this summer does not include the facilities requirements of a magnet
school.
For the past 20 years, the School Board has not been persuaded to create any more magnet
high schools like TJHSST. At issue is a concern about draining high-achieving students from
neighborhood schools rather than serving these students with challenging curricula in their base
schools.
There has been no indication that the South Lakes High School community has any desire to
establish a magnet school. A magnet school would not accomplish the objective of providing
academically challenging classes for the current South Lakes High School student body<<<

It's ALL about what is best for South Lakes students, and not the rest of the students who are being forced to go there. The South Lakes community doesn't want a magnet. Who cares what everyone else might want?! Certainly not our staff or school board.

>>>Would we consider a move of the GT Center as a result of adding Madison Island elementary students to Sunrise Valley?
Response: Yes. Moving the GT Center could be considered, especially if adding Madison Island elementary students increases the total number of students at Sunrise Valley to a number higher than their capacity.<<<
So, even more students can be moved because their plan puts too many students into Sunrise valley. I wonder if Sunrise Valley GT center parents are aware of that?

>>>
10. Will staff consider a community based discussion to determine the benefits and/or detriments of adding AP to South Lakes and dropping IB?
Response: There has been no indication that the South Lakes staff and school community desires to make this shift; hence, central office staff would not be inclined to initiate such a discussion.<<<

So, forget AP, even if the community wants it. South Lakes staff and current community doesn't want and they rule South Lakes.

>>>Why was South Lakes made an IB school when knowing more communities/residents prefer AP? I have been told the community was not involved in this decision is this true?
Response: In the late 1990’s each FCPS high school had the opportunity to choose AP or IB. The South Lakes community believed the IB was a good fit for its diverse student population and that it supported the school’s mission.<<<<

Oh, Really? That's not what I heard. I don't recall any community deciding they wanted IB. How odd that only the poorer schools, with higher minorities, chose IB. Is that because poorer children thought they were more likely to go to go to high school or college in Europe? Did the parents vote on which program they wanted? Or did only staff have a vote?

More fun stuff from the latest board docs information posted for the 2/11 work session, under facilities. http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

>>>14. There is a very clear negative PR problem about South Lakes, what is FCPS’s response to such a problem? How is this response being communicated to inform people about the positive attributes of South Lakes?
Response: Facilities Planning believes that all county high schools are excellent and provide a high quality education; the west county boundary study does not compare one school to another.<<< In other words, we have no idea what to do about the bad rep of South Lakes.

>>>Western boundary residents have been talking about a possible legal suit, how will this affect the boundary process and future boundary studies? Would a suit prevent the outcome of this taking place?
Response: FCPS has reviewed this boundary process with legal counsel. Staff is also considering possible changes to the boundary process, not as a response to possible legal suit, but to provide an improved and longer range planning process for considering when and where boundary studies should be undertaken in the future<<< I guess that explains why FCPS has budgeted $3 million for legal fees.

TO;

J.DALE AND THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BOARD

The following schools will have the most empty seats in the year 2012. Do you have any idea on how to manage the FCPS system? I think not.

The below numbers are from your CIP report and I only listed schools that have more then 100 empty seats by 2012.

HERNDON --- 299 C1

FALLS CHURCH --- 771 C2

STUART --- 124 C3

HAYFIELD --- 100 C4

MOUNT VERNON --- 836 C4

WEST POTOMAC --- 208 C4

LEE --- 205 C5

LAKE BRADDOCK --- 502 C6

ROBINSON --- 211 C6

WEST SPRINGFIELD --- 128 C6

OAKTON --- 100 C8

SOUTH LAKES --- 800 C8

WESTFIELD --- 190 C8

If I can figure out the above, WHY ARE YOU NOT ABLE TO DO THE SAME?

I believe you have serious problems with capacity issues and I do not believe you know how to deal with these problems?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>The above numbers suggest that you will have
> over 4100 empty seats in high schools by the year
> 2012.<<<
>
> THAT is totally amazing! Why on earth did they
> build South County?

J-woman-
Stick to areas of the County you know

What are the odds on the following Scenarios?

Navy ES stays in Chantilly HS due to proximity issues?

Madison Island stays in Madison HS due to political pressure and Strong testimony by Madison homeowners and students at School board meetings?

If either of these happen, what will the impact be on Fox Mill and East Floris? 2 of the major criteria for the study would be eliminated. (eliminate islands and reduce capacity at Chantilly)

Could the SB still push for the RD?

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are the odds on the following Scenarios?
>
> Navy ES stays in Chantilly HS due to proximity
> issues?
>
> Madison Island stays in Madison HS due to
> political pressure and Strong testimony by Madison
> homeowners and students at School board meetings?
>
> If either of these happen, what will the impact be
> on Fox Mill and East Floris? 2 of the major
> criteria for the study would be eliminated.
> (eliminate islands and reduce capacity at
> Chantilly)
>
> Could the SB still push for the RD?


In this case if this happens, then the study would be invalidated because they would not meet 8 criterias of fcps...then the study would have to be re-done the right way. If this happens, I am sure the Fox Mill/East Floris folks will have a field day with these school board members and fcps officials and the SL community as well. That is one of the many reasons why I oppose this redistricting fashion. The SB should really think what could happen if this happens by pushing for a RD.

Anonymous Wrote:
> > >>>The above numbers suggest that you will have
> > over 4100 empty seats in high schools by the
> year
> > 2012.<<<
> >
> > THAT is totally amazing! Why on earth did they
> > build South County?
>
> J-woman-
> Stick to areas of the County you know

---------
Point One: The title of this thread is "high school redistricting", not "South Lakes."

Point Two: If South Lakes was solving its own problems the rest of us could "mind our own business." However, they want to move around students from other schools, which makes it the business of the entire County.

Point Three: EVERY renovation, including South Lakes, was delayed an average of two years to pay off the bonds for South County. In the meantime, prices skyrocketed, so all projects cost much more. South County secondary school construction and enrollment is therefore the business of EVERY taxpayer.

Here are ALL the FCPS high schools capacity and enrollment projections for 2012, most over-crowded on top.

School / Capacity / 2012 / Balance %
Jefferson / 1,600 / 1,856 / -256 / 116.0%
So County / 1,700 / 1,892 / -192 / 111.3%
Madison / 1,875 / 1,981 / -106 / 105.7%
Annandale / 2,350 / 2,459 / -109 / 104.6%
Woodson* / 1,950 / 2,016 / -66 / 103.4%
McLean / 1,725 / 1,744 / -19 / 101.1%
Fairfax / 2200 / 2,221 / -21 / 101.0%
Chantilly / 2,625 / 2,603 / 22 / 99.2%
Centreville / 2,325 / 2,304 / 21 / 99.1%
Edison / 1,675 / 1,642 / 33 / 98.0%
Langley / 2100 / 2,050 / 50 / 97.6%
Oakton / 2,325 / 2,245 / 80 / 96.6%
Hayfield / 2,125 / 2,034 / 91 / 95.7%
Marshall / 1,500 / 1,429 / 71 / 95.3%
Lee / 1,850 1,745 / 105 / 94.3%
W Sprfld / 2,225 / 2,097 / 128 / 94.2%
Westfield / 3,100 / 2,910 / 190 / 93.9%
Robinson / 2,825 / 2,614 / 211 / 92.5%
Stuart/ / 1,650 / 1,507 / 143 / 91.3%
W Potomac / 2,200 / 1,932 / 268 / 87.8%
Herndon / 2,225 / 1,926 / 299 / 86.6%
Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223 / 502 / 81.6%
Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714 836 / 67.2%
So Lakes/ / 2100 / 1,350 / 750 / 64.3%
Falls Ch / 2,000 / 1,229 / 771 / 61.5%

*Enrollment figures do not include Special Education Center students
Capacities & balances include modular additions

----------------
That is a lot of numbers. Most of the schools look to be about "right." Here are the schools projected to be more than 103% full or less than 93% full:

School / Capacity / 2012 / Balance %
Jefferson / 1,600 / 1,856 / -256 / 116.0% Pending renovation
So County / 1,700 / 1,892 / -192 / 111.3% New
Madison / 1,875 / 1,981 / -106 / 105.7% Just renovated
Annandale / 2,350 / 2,459 / -109 / 104.6% Just renovated
Woodson* / 1,950 / 2,016 / -66 / 103.4% In renovation

Robinson / 2,825 / 2,614 / 211 / 92.5%
Stuart/ / 1,650 / 1,507 / 143 / 91.3% Just renovated
W Potomac / 2,200 / 1,932 / 268 / 87.8%
Herndon / 2,225 / 1,926 / 299 / 86.6%
Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223 / 502 / 81.6% Just renovated
Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714 836 / 67.2%
So Lakes/ / 2100 / 1,350 / 750 / 64.3% Completing renovation
Falls Ch / 2,000 / 1,229 / 771 / 61.5%


Jefferson is a special case and is pending renovation. However, I will point out that if an IB magnet were created it would take some pressure off Jefferson. If very bright students had the option to attend a "liberal arts" magnet, enough would probably opt out of the current "science and technology magnet" that Jefferson would no longer be overcrowded.

All of the "overcrowded" schools are adjacent to at least two "under-enrolled" schools:
So County - Lake Braddock and Mt Vernon
Madison - South Lakes and Falls Church
Annandale - Falls Church, Lake Braddock, and Stuart
Woodson* - Robinson, Lake Braddock, and Falls Church.

----------------

Forum Reader-

Here is the press release from FCPS. Your point 3 is wrong according to 4th paragraph

Tuesday, December 2
FCPS Releases Ten-Year CIP Program Of $1.94 Billion
Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent Daniel A. Domenech has released the school system’s FY 2005-09 capital improvement program (CIP), which includes new schools, renovations, and additions over five years totaling $651.6 million; of these, projects totaling $172.2 million are unfunded. At the request of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, projections over ten years of FY 2005-14 have also been provided. The first five years of the plan outline detailed student accommodations for specific schools or groups of schools, and the second five years of the plan identify long-term projected needs. The total CIP project cost over ten years is estimated to be $1.94 billion.

The 2005-09 CIP includes changes in a number of project schedules, due in part to the successful execution of a private-public partnership agreement that has accelerated the construction of a new south county high school. The partnership has made it possible to plan the opening of the school three years sooner than anticipated while saving the school system more than $25.5 million as a result of development proffers and reduced construction costs.

“The south county partnership agreement has had a tremendous impact on Fairfax County Public Schools and the Fairfax County community,” said Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent Daniel A. Domenech. “The funds and time saved by this cooperative venture will make it possible to complete renovations and additions to existing buildings sooner than anticipated while saving taxpayers millions of dollars.”

Cost savings from the south county high school project enabled the school system to reduce its FY 2005-09 CIP total cost by $14.8 million compared to the FY 2004-08 CIP. Project start dates have been moved up for the following schools: Mosby Woods Elementary (modular addition), Franklin Sherman Elementary (renovation), Woodburn Elementary (renovation), Sleepy Hollow Elementary (renovation), Freedom Hill Elementary (renovation), Great Falls Elementary (renovation), Vienna Elementary (renovation), Graham Road Elementary (renovation), Mount Eagle Elementary (renovation), Edison High (renovation), and construction of the west county adult education center. Project completion dates have been moved ahead for renovations at Hutchison, Wolftrap, Greenbriar West, and Navy Elementary Schools and at South Lakes High School.

FCPS is introducing numerous environmental initiatives for projects associated with the recently approved 2003 bond referendum, including:
• The use of additional natural light in building designs to improve the educational environment and reduce the amount of energy used by lighting fixtures.
• The use of low emission paints and adhesives as well as other environmentally friendly materials.
• Safety inspections performed on a routine basis to ensure compliance with federal and local safety regulations and to maintain indoor air quality.
• The use of more efficient designs to improve indoor air quality and reduce the potential of airborne contaminants,to lower the humidity levels, and to reduce energy consumption and costs.
• The use of underground cisterns to collect rainwater to irrigate playing fields.
• Replacement of inefficient boiler systems and lighting and control systems to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
• The use of environmentally friendly (non-CFC) refrigerants and replacement of outdated air conditioning systems currently using CFC refrigerants harmful to the ozone layer.

The CIP—which addresses future facility requirements based on recent enrollment trends, regional and economic conditions, birthrates, and housing development patterns—reflects a $130 million annual spending limit. Completion of CIP projects is based on cash flow and debt service limitations imposed by the Board of Supervisors on the sale of bonds.

For the 2004-05 school year, the school system projects a shortage of 265 classrooms, and it projects a shortage of 485 classrooms for the 2008-09 school year. Student membership is projected to increase by almost 12,700 additional students by the 2011-12 school year.

The 2005-09 CIP indicates the need for a 2005 school bond referendum, to be determined by the Fairfax County School Board at a later date. The School Board has scheduled a public hearing on the FY 2005-09 CIP for Thursday, January 15, 2004, at 7 p.m. at Jackson Middle School, 3020 Gallows Road, Falls Church.
###
Note: Details of the FY 2005-09 CIP can be found at http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2005-2009/main.htm. For more information, contact Gary Chevalier at 703-246-3608.


Last update: December 2, 2003
Curator: Therese Payne, therese.payne@fcps.edu

Baffled Wrote:
> ... If this happens, I am
> sure the Fox Mill/East Floris folks will have a
> field day with these school board members and fcps
> officials and the SL community as well. That is
> one of the many reasons why I oppose this
> redistricting fashion. The SB should really think
> what could happen if this happens by pushing for a
> RD.

-----------------

"Although the building addition can accommodate the current and projected enrollment at Westfield, the School Board has recently re-affirmed that the ideal size for a high school is 2,000 students. To address this concern, the 2009-2013 CIP has carried forward the potential need for another high school in the western portion of the County." [Excerpt from the staff response to Question #5, "Responses to 19 Additional Questions from the January 14, 2008, School Board Work Session" dated February 7, 2008]

With that in mind, here are the FCPS high schools listed in order of capacity:

School / Capacity / 2012 projected enrollment
Westfield / 3,100 / 2,910
Robinson / 2,825 / 2,614
Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223
Chantilly / 2,625 / 2,603
Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714
Annandale / 2,350 / 2,459
Centreville / 2,325 / 2,304
Oakton / 2,325 / 2,245
Herndon / 2,225 / 1,926
W Sprfld / 2,225 / 2,097
Fairfax / 2,200 / 2,221
W Potomac / 2,200 / 1,932
Hayfield / 2,125 / 2,034
Langley / 2,100 / 2,050
So Lakes / 2,100 / 1,350
Falls Ch / 2,000 / 1,229
Woodson* / 1,950 / 2,016
Madison / 1,875 / 1,981
LeeHS / 1,745 /
McLean / 1,725 / 1,744
So County / 1,700 / 1,892
Edison / 1,675 / 1,642
Stuart / 1,650 / 1,507
Jefferson / 1,600 / 1,856
Marshall / 1,500 / 1,429

*Enrollment figures do not include Special Education Center students
Capacities & balances include modular additions

Schools that were built "too big" (capacity over 2300) or "too small" (capacity under 1700)

"Too big"
Westfield / 3,100 / 2,910 Recent addition
Robinson / 2,825 / 2,614
Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223 Just Renovated; received addition
Chantilly / 2,625 / 2,603 Modular adds capacity of 350.
Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714
Annandale / 2,350 / 2,459 Just Renovated
Centreville / 2,325 / 2,304
Oakton / 2,325 / 2,245

"Too Small"
Edison / 1,675 / 1,642 Pending Renovation
Stuart / 1,650 / 1,507 Just Renovated
Jefferson / 1,600 / 1,856 Pending Renovation
Marshall / 1,500 / 1,429 Pending Renovation

Oh, dear! What to do? What to do?

[I AM NOT ADVOCATING ANY OF THE BELOW - I ONLY AM ATTEMPTING TO SHOW SOME OF THE LOGICAL CONSEQUENCES OF THE 2,000 STUDENT 'POLICY." As Baffled wrote, "The SB should really think what could happen if this happens by pushing for a RD."]

As long as Annandale, Centerville, and Oakton are not overcrowded, they can stay in the range of 1700 to 2300. However, Annandale enrollment is projected to be over 2,450 in 2012. Redistricting a couple hundred students to adjacent Stuart and almost-adjacent Edison appears to be an way to get Annandale down to the 1700-2300 range.

Removing the mod from Chantilly takes its capacity down to 2,275, but at least 300 students would need to be moved out to get the student body down to within 1,700-2,300. So far we are moving 500 high schoolers.

Westfield (3,100) could be converted to a secondary school (1,000 in the middle school and 2,000 in the high school). Another 900 high schoolers would have to be moved out. Running total: 1400

Mt Vernon could also be converted to a secondary school (800 in the middle school and 1700 in the high school, same size as South County, which would, of course, remain a secondary school). A little redistricting would be needed, but there is plenty of space in the adjacent West Potomac pyramid.

Robinson and Lake Braddock are already secondary schools.
Robinson capacity: HS 2,825 / MS 1,275 / total 4,100
Lake Braddock capacity: HS 2,725 / MS 1,350 / total 4,075
[Lake Braddock was just renovated and received a middle school addition. It has a MS GT center.]
If both of these huge schools were reduced to 2,300 (high school) the empty seats could be used to house joint classes with nearby nearby high schools with academy-style busing. Robinson is IB and Lake Braddock is AP, so "less popular" as well as new IB and AP courses could be offered. Lots of general education courses could also be offered - the full list mentioned by FCPS in the initial boundary meeting.

This would benefit students in all the neighboring schools not just because of the additional available courses but also because the powerhouse sports teams would be easier to beat (Isn't that one of the South Lakes concerns as well?)

Lake Braddock is OK, but 300 hundred high schoolers (plus some middle school students) would have to be moved out of Robinson. So far we need to find new homes for 1,700 students being moved out of schools that are "too big."

The only school on the "too big/too small" list not yet mentioned is Marshall. There is not much land available so a big addition does not seem to be an option. Some have suggested closing it and selling off the land. Between adjacent South Lakes to the west and Falls Church to the south, there is plenty of room for all the Marshall students,

However, by reducing the capacity of Chantilly, Lake Braddock, Mt Vernon, Robinson, and Westfield to 2,300 or less, FCPS will need more, not fewer, high school seats. This is good news for the Oak Hill community because it justifies a new high school.

But back to Marshall - Consider the pupil placement data. The following schools have sent a total of 112 students to Marshall for the stated reason of "IB Program Curriculum."
1 Chantilly
2 Fairfax
26 Falls Church
1 Herndon
23 Langley
29 Madison
23 McLean
4 Oakton
1 South Lakes
1 Woodson
Since South Lakes does not want an IB magnet programme, how about closing Marshall as stated above, with students going west to South Lakes and south to Falls Church - both of which are in "need" of more students - and reopen Marshall as an all-IB magnet? [I think George C. Marshall would approve. After all, As Secretary of State he gave his name to the Marshall Plan, for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.]

If all of the above is done most of the stated FPCS re-districting goals are met. However, MAJOR redistricting will hit students all over the County. Assume half the Marshall students opt for redistricting in lieu of staying in the new IB magnet programm, and we add another 700 students who need new homes. Total: 2,400

I repeat, I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS. However, to again quote Baffled, "The SB should really think what could happen if this happens by pushing for a RD" because South Lakes is just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> > ... If this happens, I am
> > sure the Fox Mill/East Floris folks will have a
> > field day with these school board members and
> fcps
> > officials and the SL community as well. That
> is
> > one of the many reasons why I oppose this
> > redistricting fashion. The SB should really
> think
> > what could happen if this happens by pushing for
> a
> > RD.
>
> -----------------
>
> "Although the building addition can accommodate
> the current and projected enrollment at Westfield,
> the School Board has recently re-affirmed that the
> ideal size for a high school is 2,000 students. To
> address this concern, the 2009-2013 CIP has
> carried forward the potential need for another
> high school in the western portion of the County."
>
>
> With that in mind, here are the FCPS high schools
> listed in order of capacity:
>
> School / Capacity / 2012 projected enrollment
> Westfield / 3,100 / 2,910
> Robinson / 2,825 / 2,614
> Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223
> Chantilly / 2,625 / 2,603
> Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714
> Annandale / 2,350 / 2,459
> Centreville / 2,325 / 2,304
> Oakton / 2,325 / 2,245
> Herndon / 2,225 / 1,926
> W Sprfld / 2,225 / 2,097
> Fairfax / 2,200 / 2,221
> W Potomac / 2,200 / 1,932
> Hayfield / 2,125 / 2,034
> Langley / 2,100 / 2,050
> So Lakes / 2,100 / 1,350
> Falls Ch / 2,000 / 1,229
> Woodson* / 1,950 / 2,016
> Madison / 1,875 / 1,981
> LeeHS / 1,745 /
> McLean / 1,725 / 1,744
> So County / 1,700 / 1,892
> Edison / 1,675 / 1,642
> Stuart / 1,650 / 1,507
> Jefferson / 1,600 / 1,856
> Marshall / 1,500 / 1,429
>
> *Enrollment figures do not include Special
> Education Center students
> Capacities & balances include modular additions
>
> Schools that were built "too big" (capacity over
> 2300) or "too small" (capacity under 1700)
>
> "Too big"
> Westfield / 3,100 / 2,910 Recent addition
> Robinson / 2,825 / 2,614
> Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223 Just Renovated; received
> addition
> Chantilly / 2,625 / 2,603 Modular adds capacity
> of 350.
> Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714
> Annandale / 2,350 / 2,459 Just Renovated
> Centreville / 2,325 / 2,304
> Oakton / 2,325 / 2,245
>
> "Too Small"
> Edison / 1,675 / 1,642 Pending Renovation
> Stuart / 1,650 / 1,507 Just Renovated
> Jefferson / 1,600 / 1,856 Pending Renovation
> Marshall / 1,500 / 1,429 Pending Renovation
>
> Oh, dear! What to do? What to do?
>
>
>
> As long as Annandale, Centerville, and Oakton are
> not overcrowded, they can stay in the range of
> 1700 to 2300. However, Annandale enrollment is
> projected to be over 2,450 in 2012. Redistricting
> a couple hundred students to adjacent Stuart and
> almost-adjacent Edison appears to be an way to get
> Annandale down to the 1700-2300 range.
>
> Removing the mod from Chantilly takes its capacity
> down to 2,275, but at least 300 students would
> need to be moved out to get the student body down
> to within 1,700-2,300. So far we are moving 500
> high schoolers.
>
> Westfield (3,100) could be converted to a
> secondary school (1,000 in the middle school and
> 2,000 in the high school). Another 900 high
> schoolers would have to be moved out. Running
> total: 1400
>
> Mt Vernon could also be converted to a secondary
> school (800 in the middle school and 1700 in the
> high school, same size as South County, which
> would, of course, remain a secondary school). A
> little redistricting would be needed, but there is
> plenty of space in the adjacent West Potomac
> pyramid.
>
> Robinson and Lake Braddock are already secondary
> schools.
> Robinson capacity: HS 2,825 / MS 1,275 / total
> 4,100
> Lake Braddock capacity: HS 2,725 / MS 1,350 /
> total 4,075
>
> If both of these huge schools were reduced to
> 2,300 (high school) the empty seats could be used
> to house joint classes with nearby nearby high
> schools with academy-style busing. Robinson is IB
> and Lake Braddock is AP, so "less popular" as well
> as new IB and AP courses could be offered. Lots of
> general education courses could also be offered -
> the full list mentioned by FCPS in the initial
> boundary meeting.
>
> This would benefit students in all the neighboring
> schools not just because of the additional
> available courses but also because the powerhouse
> sports teams would be easier to beat (Isn't that
> one of the South Lakes concerns as well?)
>
> Lake Braddock is OK, but 300 hundred high
> schoolers (plus some middle school students) would
> have to be moved out of Robinson. So far we need
> to find new homes for 1,700 students being moved
> out of schools that are "too big."
>
> The only school on the "too big/too small" list
> not yet mentioned is Marshall. There is not much
> land available so a big addition does not seem to
> be an option. Some have suggested closing it and
> selling off the land. Between adjacent South Lakes
> to the west and Falls Church to the south, there
> is plenty of room for all the Marshall students,
>
> However, by reducing the capacity of Chantilly,
> Lake Braddock, Mt Vernon, Robinson, and Westfield
> to 2,300 or less, FCPS will need more, not fewer,
> high school seats. This is good news for the Oak
> Hill community because it justifies a new high
> school.
>
> But back to Marshall - Consider the pupil
> placement data. The following schools have sent a
> total of 112 students to Marshall for the stated
> reason of "IB Program Curriculum."
> 1 Chantilly
> 2 Fairfax
> 26 Falls Church
> 1 Herndon
> 23 Langley
> 29 Madison
> 23 McLean
> 4 Oakton
> 1 South Lakes
> 1 Woodson
> Since South Lakes does not want an IB magnet
> programme, how about closing Marshall as stated
> above, with students going west to South Lakes and
> south to Falls Church - both of which are in
> "need" of more students - and reopen Marshall as
> an all-IB magnet?
>
> If all of the above is done most of the stated
> FPCS re-districting goals are met. However, MAJOR
> redistricting will hit students all over the
> County. Assume half the Marshall students opt for
> redistricting in lieu of staying in the new IB
> magnet programm, and we add another 700 students
> who need new homes. Total: 2,400
>
> I repeat, I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS. However, to
> again quote Baffled, "The SB should really think
> what could happen if this happens by pushing for a
> RD" because South Lakes is just the tip of a very
> large iceberg.


Forum Reader-
What are you saying?

If you want to look at what schools can handle remove the modulars and trailers. If you want to use projections (which nobody outside of Tistadts household believe anymore) then put up the current numbers with your 5 year out onesand check how the past projections have done to the current.

Stu pulled out the old high school size issue because the numbers stopped going his way for his grand plan. They never intended for it to be used for any other reaosn then to complete the grand plan

Not Jack Dale Wrote:
>
> Forum Reader-
> What are you saying?
>
> ... Stu pulled out the old high school size issue
> because the numbers stopped going his way for his
> grand plan. They never intended for it to be used
> for any other reaosn then to complete the grand
> plan

-----------
What I am saying is at the end of my very long post: "I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS. However, to again quote Baffled, "The SB should really think what could happen if this happens by pushing for a RD" because South Lakes is just the tip of a very large iceberg."

You write, "Stu pulled out the old high school size issue because the numbers stopped going his way for his grand plan." No, this is NOT a dead issue. 7 Feb 2008 is the date on this excerpt from the staff response to Question #5, "Responses to 19 Additional Questions from the January 14, 2008, School Board Work Session":

"Although the building addition can accommodate the current and projected enrollment at Westfield, the School Board has recently re-affirmed that the ideal size for a high school is 2,000 students. To address this concern, the 2009-2013 CIP has carried forward the potential need for another high school in the western portion of the County."

I don't believe I said it was a dead issue. Stu and Kathy slipped that high school on the CIP in the first weeks of the last school board when 6 new members had no idea what they should be asking. It is clearly not needed.

What you are seeing with the 1984 study is the cover being provided to justify the unnecessary dulles high school still on the CIP and for this boundary study.

I don't know what point you are making and realize you aren't advocating it whatever it is

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What you are seeing with the 1984 study is the
> cover being provided to justify the unnecessary
> dulles high school still on the CIP and for this
> boundary study.

Granted, some projections might obviate the need for a Rachel Carson High School (or Oak Hill, Dulles, Sully, Cox Communications) if the SB is willing to maintain enrollments in the 2600-3100 range; however, I strongly suspect that it will be needed as more growth occurs, particularly in the new Coppermine ES district. In one fell swoop, western county enrollment issues can be permanently resolved.

Anonymous Wrote:
> I don't know what point you are making and realize
> you aren't advocating it whatever it is

------------
In words of one syllable:

If the School Board hates big schools then they should stop this South Lakes plan now so all the big schools can be looked at.

If the School Board hates big schools they should make ALL the big schools small.

That means a bunch of kids would be moved. MOVE, not build, Do not make more big schools.

Anonymous Wrote:
> Forum Reader-
>
> Here is the press release from FCPS. Your point 3
> is wrong according to 4th paragraph
>
> ... The 2005-09 CIP includes changes in a number of
> project schedules, due in part to the successful
> execution of a private-public partnership
> agreement that has accelerated the construction of
> a new south county high school. The partnership
> has made it possible to plan the opening of the
> school three years sooner than anticipated while
> saving the school system more than $25.5 million
> as a result of development proffers and reduced
> construction costs.
>
> “The south county partnership agreement has had a
> tremendous impact on Fairfax County Public Schools
> and the Fairfax County community,” said Fairfax
> County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent Daniel
> A. Domenech. ...
--------
Anonymous,
Do you buy stuff just because it is on sale?
Even if you don't need it?
Even if you already have too much of it?
Even though you don't have enough money for other stuff that you DO need and that you promised your kids they could have?

“ 'The south county partnership agreement has had a tremendous impact on Fairfax County Public Schools and the Fairfax County community,' said Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent Daniel A. Domenech." No doubt about that.

The FY 04 CIP added SCSS. Because the County CIP budget is capped, when a $63M+ project like SCSS bumps into the line, everyone else is bumped back.

The 2006 CIP (proposed FY 2006-10 CIP) shows these expenses for SCSS:
Prior years: $7,413,600
FY 2006 $20,308,800
FY 2007 $25,515,000
FY 2008 $9,818,000

"Doing it sooner saves money" applies even more to renovations. The FY 99 CIP estimated the South Lakes renovation would cost $31,833,000 with planning in FY 02 and 03 and work to start in FY 04.

This 2006 CIP that shows the $63M+ for SCSS, all paid in FY 2008 or earlier, also shows the South Lakes renovation was delayed two years, with the major work in FY 06 to 08. Meanwhile, the cost more than doubled to $63M.

For another effect of SCSS bumping into line go to:
http://www.fcps.edu/woodsonhs/renovation/renovatehome.htm
At the bottom is a picture of what the Woodson community was told it was getting with its renewal. The big addition is a huge new auditorium. The caption says, "This virtual tour was prepared in 2004 to show features of the Woodson renovation including a proposed new auditorium. The new auditorium is still planned but construction cost increases require that we consider scope changes to this and other capital projects. The Woodson renovation will be bid with options that will include renewing the existing auditorium and expanding the space provided for arts in lieu of the new auditorium. We hope that this change will not be required but it would be fiscally imprudent to not be prepared to deal with bids that might exceed the renovation budget."

FCPS ran out of CIP money and overcrowded Woodson is not getting its new auditorium.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anonymous Wrote:
> > Forum Reader-
> >
> > Here is the press release from FCPS. Your point
> 3
> > is wrong according to 4th paragraph
> >
> > ... The 2005-09 CIP includes changes in a number
> of
> > project schedules, due in part to the
> successful
> > execution of a private-public partnership
> > agreement that has accelerated the construction
> of
> > a new south county high school. The partnership
> > has made it possible to plan the opening of the
> > school three years sooner than anticipated
> while
> > saving the school system more than $25.5
> million
> > as a result of development proffers and reduced
> > construction costs.
> >
> > “The south county partnership agreement has had
> a
> > tremendous impact on Fairfax County Public
> Schools
> > and the Fairfax County community,” said Fairfax
> > County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent
> Daniel
> > A. Domenech. ...
> --------
> Anonymous,
> Do you buy stuff just because it is on sale?
> Even if you don't need it?
> Even if you already have too much of it?
> Even though you don't have enough money for other
> stuff that you DO need and that you promised your
> kids they could have?
>
> “ 'The south county partnership agreement has had
> a tremendous impact on Fairfax County Public
> Schools and the Fairfax County community,' said
> Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS)
> Superintendent Daniel A. Domenech." No doubt about
> that.
>
> The FY 04 CIP added SCSS. Because the County CIP
> budget is capped, when a $63M+ project like SCSS
> bumps into the line, everyone else is bumped
> back.
>
> The 2006 CIP (proposed FY 2006-10 CIP) shows these
> expenses for SCSS:
> Prior years: $7,413,600
> FY 2006 $20,308,800
> FY 2007 $25,515,000
> FY 2008 $9,818,000
>
> "Doing it sooner saves money" applies even more to
> renovations. The FY 99 CIP estimated the South
> Lakes renovation would cost $31,833,000 with
> planning in FY 02 and 03 and work to start in FY
> 04.
>
> This 2006 CIP that shows the $63M+ for SCSS, all
> paid in FY 2008 or earlier, also shows the South
> Lakes renovation was delayed two years, with the
> major work in FY 06 to 08. Meanwhile, the cost
> more than doubled to $63M.
>
> For another effect of SCSS bumping into line go
> to:
> http://www.fcps.edu/woodsonhs/renovation/renovateh
> ome.htm
> At the bottom is a picture of what the Woodson
> community was told it was getting with its
> renewal. The big addition is a huge new
> auditorium. The caption says, "This virtual tour
> was prepared in 2004 to show features of the
> Woodson renovation including a proposed new
> auditorium. The new auditorium is still planned
> but construction cost increases require that we
> consider scope changes to this and other capital
> projects. The Woodson renovation will be bid with
> options that will include renewing the existing
> auditorium and expanding the space provided for
> arts in lieu of the new auditorium. We hope that
> this change will not be required but it would be
> fiscally imprudent to not be prepared to deal with
> bids that might exceed the renovation budget."
>
> FCPS ran out of CIP money and overcrowded Woodson
> is not getting its new auditorium.

A school for the Southern area of the County was on the CIP long before 2004.

The cost of the South Lakes renovation did not double in a two year period.

Your statement that it wasn't needed before 2008 (or ever needed) clearly is wrong, isn't it?

You believe FCPS projections for 5 years out, but don't believe their press release?

Jumping to another topic of high school redistricting, I have been watching the public hearing and there seemed to be much more opposition to the redistricting. I couldn't see Stu being there to listen. Did he show up at all for the hearing?

Anonymous Wrote:
> A school for the Southern area of the County was
> on the CIP long before 2004.
>
> The cost of the South Lakes renovation did not
> double in a two year period.
>
> Your statement that it wasn't needed before 2008
> (or ever needed) clearly is wrong, isn't it?
>
> You believe FCPS projections for 5 years out, but
> don't believe their press release?

Let me try again.
The proposed FY 99 CIP (dated 19 Jan 1997). included the building of Westfield but NOT SCSS. It estimated the South Lakes renovation would cost $31,833,000 with planning in FY 02 and 03 and work to start in FY 04.

At the Jan. 28, 1999, School Board meeting, a motion to amend the 2000 CIP so as to add funding for a new secondary school in south county passed by an 11 to 1 vote. Page 12 of the minutes of that meeting states:
"The motion to amend the CIP by adding $45 million for the construction of a new secondary school in the south county area with the notation that the addition of this item in the CIP will not delay other projects already included in the CIP passed 11-1...."

Comparing the 1999 and 2000 CIPs to the 2004 CIP shows that, contrary to what the older schools were promised, renovations at Lake Braddock, South Lakes, etc, WERE delayed while the south county school jumped in line.

Meanwhile costs climbed sharply, and the cost of the South Lakes renovation more than doubled between the FY99 CIP and now. (I did NOT say the cost "doubled in a two year period".)

Please refresh my memory. What exactly was my "statement that it wasn't needed before 2008 (or ever needed)"?

In any case SCSS is here now so the question becomes, how can SCSS best be used? Certainly not by building a middle school - look at all the empty seats nearby. Besides, only two days ago FCPS restated, ""Although the building addition can accommodate the current and projected enrollment at Westfield, the School Board has recently re-affirmed that the ideal size for a high school is 2,000 students. [Excerpt from the staff response to Question #5, "Responses to 19 Additional Questions from the January 14, 2008, School Board Work Session" dated February 7, 2008] So leave SCSS as a 2,500 seat secondary school, and redistrict "over-enrolled" students to nearby schools with excess space.

I use FCPS five-year projections when they are best data available. As to believing press releases, do you? Especially when hard, historical data are available?

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>The above numbers suggest that you will have
> > over 4100 empty seats in high schools by the
> year
> > 2012.<<<
> >
> > THAT is totally amazing! Why on earth did they
> > build South County?
>
> J-woman-
> Stick to areas of the County you know

Ah, yet another South Lakes supporter who is afraid of the truth.

Don't you have another meeting to organize, speech to practice, or data to post on your private South Lakes forum? Hahaha



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 04:32PM by Neen.

LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING MEETING.

She confronted the speaker in the outside lobby after his presentation which was critical of the school boards performance over the last ten years.

She raised her voice and waved her finger in his face and then made disparaging remarks about his nationality and his ethnic background.

All this was done as the speaker was walking away from her and several people witness her attack.

This was a very unprofessional way that this school board member acted. She should not be a school board member if she is not able to take criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.

The VA primary is the only chance for Hillary to pick up a win on Tuesday. She can forget about DC and MD. Between the two, Hillary is more to the center and main stream values. Barack is more like Stu in Fairfax.

My vote is for Hillary!

VA primary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The VA primary is the only chance for Hillary to
> pick up a win on Tuesday. She can forget about DC
> and MD. Between the two, Hillary is more to the
> center and main stream values. Barack is more like
> Stu in Fairfax.
>
> My vote is for Hillary!


You're kidding, right? Obama is attracting and building a truly diverse coalition--the Floris of the Democratic primaries. He's the man! Get out the vote on Tuesday and support change!

Then feel free to join the chorus of voices against redistricting, too!

What an amazing show on Channel 21 today! Is everybody watching?

OK FR...here goes again. I post after you to distinguish between your beliefs and mine

Let me try again.
> The proposed FY 99 CIP (dated 19 Jan 1997).
> included the building of Westfield but NOT SCSS.
> It estimated the South Lakes renovation would cost
> $31,833,000 with planning in FY 02 and 03 and work
> to start in FY 04.

Partially true -- read Page 11 of the FY 1999-2003 document where it outlines the need for a school in Southwest County -- identified at the time as a middle school.
>
> At the Jan. 28, 1999, School Board meeting, a
> motion to amend the 2000 CIP so as to add funding
> for a new secondary school in south county passed
> by an 11 to 1 vote. Page 12 of the minutes of
> that meeting states:
> "The motion to amend the CIP by adding $45 million
> for the construction of a new secondary school in
> the south county area with the notation that the
> addition of this item in the CIP will not delay
> other projects already included in the CIP passed
> 11-1...."

TRUE, I believe Moon dissented
>
> Comparing the 1999 and 2000 CIPs to the 2004 CIP
> shows that, contrary to what the older schools
> were promised, renovations at Lake Braddock, South
> Lakes, etc, WERE delayed while the south county
> school jumped in line.

Clearly as indicated before FCPS doesn't believe that nor do I

You assume a causal relationship here between SC construction and renovation delays when South County was certainly not the the sole contributing (and FCPS believes it not only didn't contribute but helped) factor to the delays.

The real cause was the increase in construction costs. As you pointed out yourself South County was approved for $45 and came in at $63 million with proffers from the community that offset it. Woodson's renovation came in higher as well as all other factors. That was the (sole) cause and not accelerating South County by 3 years
>
> Meanwhile costs climbed sharply, and the cost of
> the South Lakes renovation more than doubled
> between the FY99 CIP and now. (I did NOT say the
> cost "doubled in a two year period".)

I inferred that from your drawn out style. Everything doubled from that '99 CIP. It was due to unexpected construction inflation.
>
> Please refresh my memory. What exactly was my
> "statement that it wasn't needed before 2008 (or
> ever needed)"?

Here were your words..
Anonymous,
Do you buy stuff just because it is on sale?
Even if you don't need it?
Even if you already have too much of it?
Even though you don't have enough money for other stuff that you DO need and that you promised your kids they could have?
>
> In any case SCSS is here now so the question
> becomes, how can SCSS best be used? Certainly not
> by building a middle school - look at all the
> empty seats nearby. Besides, only two days ago
> FCPS restated, ""Although the building addition
> can accommodate the current and projected
> enrollment at Westfield, the School Board has
> recently re-affirmed that the ideal size for a
> high school is 2,000 students. So leave SCSS as a
> 2,500 seat secondary school, and redistrict
> "over-enrolled" students to nearby schools with
> excess space.
>
> I use FCPS five-year projections when they are
> best data available. As to believing press
> releases, do you? Especially when hard, historical
> data are available?

There is plenty of hard historical data to use rather than FCPS 5 year projections. I don't know of anybody who thinks they are the best available especially given their severe limitations and inaccuracy recently.

You pick and choose what you want to believe to support your given conclusion thorugh cognitive dissonance. This is the same fallacy that FCPS uses for their flawed boundary studies and other ill advised money wasting initiatives.

If the school board votes to redistrict South Lakes, then they must vote to redistrict South County Secondary School and say NO to the new middle school in South County.

Navy is out of this, a fact that I have on good authority. Okay so what does that mean to the rest of you? I think Madison may have a chance but the SL people are turning up the heat against those 12+ kids. They must be pretty good to have SLPTA want them sooo bad.

Here is my thought on this, if Navy gets out and believe they will. WHere does that leave Oakton. Without Navy they will become painfully under enrolled. So who will be chosen to replace Navy?

It has to be someone from Chantilly who has already been involved in the study. Is there such a group? If not removing Navy will colaspe the plan wont it?

Obama is attracting African Americans and liberal elite. Hillary has the overwhelming support from middle class democrats, Latinos and Asian Americans who value families and education.

No. VA, Clinton country!!!


Obamacrats Against Redistricting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VA primary Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The VA primary is the only chance for Hillary
> to
> > pick up a win on Tuesday. She can forget about
> DC
> > and MD. Between the two, Hillary is more to the
> > center and main stream values. Barack is more
> like
> > Stu in Fairfax.
> >
> > My vote is for Hillary!
>
>
> You're kidding, right? Obama is attracting and
> building a truly diverse coalition--the Floris of
> the Democratic primaries. He's the man! Get out
> the vote on Tuesday and support change!
>
> Then feel free to join the chorus of voices
> against redistricting, too!
>
> What an amazing show on Channel 21 today! Is
> everybody watching?

The CAPS yellow shirts, or should I call them brown shirts, were very rude today. They most certainly hurt their cause. Booing, hissing, and screaming out are counter-productive. Playing the race victim, as many in the Floris community did, is also not sincere or effective. Also, Floris kids who actually broke from their friends to attend GT centers hurt their own arguments, as they willingly left their base schools for GT. I'll bet that they will gladly leave Westfield for TJ if given the chance.

The two best speakers of the day were kids, one sixth grader from the South Lakes pyramid, and one high-schooler not affected by the study who supports redistricting. With their wisdom and grace, they showed up each and every opponent of redistricting.

All in all, it was a pretty amazing day.

Floris has its own GT class. Floris kids attend GT center in their base school. They didn't broke from their friends to attend GT. They remain in the same school.

CAPS Victims? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CAPS yellow shirts, or should I call them
> brown shirts, were very rude today. They most
> certainly hurt their cause. Booing, hissing, and
> screaming out are counter-productive. Playing the
> race victim, as many in the Floris community did,
> is also not sincere or effective. Also, Floris
> kids who actually broke from their friends to
> attend GT centers hurt their own arguments, as
> they willingly left their base schools for GT.
> I'll bet that they will gladly leave Westfield for
> TJ if given the chance.
>
> The two best speakers of the day were kids, one
> sixth grader from the South Lakes pyramid, and one
> high-schooler not affected by the study who
> supports redistricting. With their wisdom and
> grace, they showed up each and every opponent of
> redistricting.
>
> All in all, it was a pretty amazing day.

CAPS Victims?

I am not a CAPs yellow shirt. I am not from South Lakes or Madison or Herndon, and still I have compassion for them.

Who are you? I suspect you are someone whose child will not be moving to a new school next year? I suspect you are one of the gleeful South Lakes parents, whose kids are happy are South Lakes? How disrespectful are you? How much compassion do you lack?

These parents are afraid for their children. No they DO NOT fear diversity. They fear the disruption to their children's lives. You face no disruption yet you sit in judgement of these people. How insensitive you must be!

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jumping to another topic of high school
> redistricting, I have been watching the public
> hearing and there seemed to be much more
> opposition to the redistricting. I couldn't see
> Stu being there to listen. Did he show up at all
> for the hearing?

Stu was there in the morning, but as usual, he seemed preoccupied with his computer, or seemed to need a break when someone who was opposed to the RD was speaking. It seemed like in the morning session, the pro RD folks we outnumbered at least 4 to 1 by the Stop RD folks. I am guessing that all of the South lakes mothers who cared about the RD were done by the 31st meeting. There were a couple of SL students who did their obligatory speil on how great IB is etc. etc.

I really belive that Chantilly HS and the Madison Island have presented very strong cases for not being moved, and it will be very interesting to see how the School Board deals with this. It seems to be a pretty strong arguement for the Navy folks, in that their commute becomes much longer. Madison also seems to offer compelling arguements as to why they should saty in Madison HS. The Fox Mill and Floris families were in full force with the Yellow shirts, and obviosly don't want to be moved again.

What to do?, What to do? I think that this is going to be a very difficult call for the SB. If Navy and Madison are left out of the mix, and Fox Mill is pulled to South Lakes, what do you do with Oakton's under capacity?

I guess we will have to wait and see...

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy is out of this, a fact that I have on good
> authority. Okay so what does that mean to the
> rest of you? I think Madison may have a chance
> but the SL people are turning up the heat against
> those 12+ kids. They must be pretty good to have
> SLPTA want them sooo bad.
>
> Here is my thought on this, if Navy gets out and
> believe they will. WHere does that leave Oakton.
> Without Navy they will become painfully under
> enrolled. So who will be chosen to replace Navy?
>
> It has to be someone from Chantilly who has
> already been involved in the study. Is there such
> a group? If not removing Navy will colaspe the
> plan wont it?

You know, there's been much division over this redistricting..that's one of the many reasons why I puke the idea of redistricting and especially from the way this boundary study was fashioned..do you have a solid fact that Navy will get out as you cited? How about anybody knowing if there's been hard facts about any studies done on SL before resorting to redistricting as the last option? I didn't see any being done before fcps decided redistricting is the only option. So screwed up.

There were students in yellow shirts who stated that they went to Hunters Woods GT. I heard them this morning.

I do not have a dog in this fight. I live on the other side of the County. I am allowed to have an opinion about how CAPS behaved, and they did not behave well. I feel sorry for the supporters of redistricting who were booed or had signs placed in front of them by CAPS members. It is hard to feel sorry for CAPS when one of their speakers says it's not about South Lakes and their next speaker says South Lakes is a dangerous, inferior place.

What's wrong with that? They just want to give their kids the best education. If SL is comparable to TJ, they will also gladly leave Westfield for SL.

What's your point?


CAPS Victims? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll bet that they will gladly leave Westfield for
> TJ if given the chance.

Floris kids are not going to Hunter Woods for GT. Even if they want to leave their base school, they will goto Oak Hill.

CAPS Victims? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There were students in yellow shirts who stated
> that they went to Hunters Woods GT. I heard them
> this morning.

Anonymous Wrote:
> ... There is plenty of hard historical data to use
> rather than FCPS 5 year projections. I don't know
> of anybody who thinks they are the best available
> especially given their severe limitations and
> inaccuracy recently. ...

Do you use hard "historical" data to predict the future?

Below are the numbers I posted. The source is pages 97-104 of the "proposed Capital Improvement Program (CIP) for the Fiscal Years 2009-2013" with the cover letter dated December 20, 2007. [Do you need the web site?]

If you have better numbers, please post them, along with your source and a link to it. Such a contribution would be very helpful to a thread titled "high school redistricting."

----------------------------------
In the meantime, to restate what I posted earlier, here are ALL the FCPS high schools capacity and enrollment projections for 2012, most over-crowded schools on top. [The first two numbers in each line are taken from pages 97-104, FY 09-13 CIP. The third and fourth numbers are derived from simple subtraction and division.]

School / Capacity / 2012 / Balance %
Jefferson / 1,600 / 1,856 / -256 / 116.0%
So County / 1,700 / 1,892 / -192 / 111.3%
Madison / 1,875 / 1,981 / -106 / 105.7%
Annandale / 2,350 / 2,459 / -109 / 104.6%
Woodson* / 1,950 / 2,016 / -66 / 103.4%
McLean / 1,725 / 1,744 / -19 / 101.1%
Fairfax / 2200 / 2,221 / -21 / 101.0%
Chantilly / 2,625 / 2,603 / 22 / 99.2%
Centreville / 2,325 / 2,304 / 21 / 99.1%
Edison / 1,675 / 1,642 / 33 / 98.0%
Langley / 2100 / 2,050 / 50 / 97.6%
Oakton / 2,325 / 2,245 / 80 / 96.6%
Hayfield / 2,125 / 2,034 / 91 / 95.7%
Marshall / 1,500 / 1,429 / 71 / 95.3%
Lee / 1,850 1,745 / 105 / 94.3%
W Sprfld / 2,225 / 2,097 / 128 / 94.2%
Westfield / 3,100 / 2,910 / 190 / 93.9%
Robinson / 2,825 / 2,614 / 211 / 92.5%
Stuart/ / 1,650 / 1,507 / 143 / 91.3%
W Potomac / 2,200 / 1,932 / 268 / 87.8%
Herndon / 2,225 / 1,926 / 299 / 86.6%
Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223 / 502 / 81.6%
Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714 836 / 67.2%
So Lakes/ / 2100 / 1,350 / 750 / 64.3%
Falls Ch / 2,000 / 1,229 / 771 / 61.5%

*Enrollment figures do not include Special Education Center students
Capacities & balances include modular additions

wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris kids are not going to Hunter Woods for GT.
> Even if they want to leave their base school, they
> will goto Oak Hill.
>
> CAPS Victims? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There were students in yellow shirts who stated
> > that they went to Hunters Woods GT. I heard
> them
> > this morning.

A lot more schools used to go to Hunters Woods which now just serves Oakton pyramid plus Hunters Woods. Dogwood is by Hunters Woods but they do not get to go to that GT center but go to Sunrise Valley. Hunters Woods gets a lot of money for the magnet not the GT center but those students benefit from it and most are in the Oakton Pyramid. There are 400 GT center kids at Hunters Woods.

Hey- if your kid doesn't go to South Lakes and they send Fox Mill and Floris East, why not also have the benefit of the monster amount of money that Hunters Woods gets for the magnet? How come Dogwood doesn't benefit from that and Waples Mill does?

The boundary change was a few years ago. Oak Hill might have had multiple years of grandfathering so those students could have been at Hunters Woods.

Forest Edge has Lake Anne, Aldrin, Armsrtong and all go to Hughes GT center. . Forest Edge used to have for Hughes [Aldrin, Armstrong, Lake Anne, Clearview, Hutchison, Dranesville] and Kilmer[ Forestville,Great Falls].

WITNESS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE
> SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING MEETING.
>
> She confronted the speaker in the outside lobby
> after his presentation which was critical of the
> school boards performance over the last ten
> years.
>
> She raised her voice and waved her finger in his
> face and then made disparaging remarks about his
> nationality and his ethnic background.
>
> All this was done as the speaker was walking away
> from her and several people witness her attack.
>
> This was a very unprofessional way that this
> school board member acted. She should not be a
> school board member if she is not able to take
> criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.

Was that the guy who read the list of open capacity seats by clusters? That Lake Braddock has people from her community at the middle school GT center. Move that thing out and space appears.

So many school board members do nothing but rubber stamp and scheme on South County facilities that I see a separation issue = seems Magisterial District memebers are indistinguishable from school board members. There's some constant here- a couple of schools run facilties spending with the board of supervisors.

Actually hope Stu does not get recalled since he might be the only one with the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the South County Middle school and anything else outrageous those people want.

Navy will get out.

So someone tell me what does that mean for Fox mill? If they take all of those Oakton kids out of Oakton but dont put any back what does that mean for Fox Mill?

Kathy Smith has been very open about wanting Navy out. Stu doesnt care about Navy because they dont help South Lakes.

So??????????? Either some group takes their place or the entire study falls apart. Either way there is hardly anyone on the SB in support of bringing Navy to Oakton.

CAPS Victims? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CAPS yellow shirts, or should I call them
> brown shirts, were very rude today. They most
> certainly hurt their cause. Booing, hissing, and
> screaming out are counter-productive.

For those who weren't there, the booing was in response to a speaker who taunted the "yellow shirts" in her speech. The other pro-RD speakers were not booed or hissed. After the booing, Ms. Hone admonished the booers and stated that they were not helping their cause any by doing so, mentioning as an aside that she was "one of the more neutral" board members on this issue (I thought that was an interesting comment). She asked all audience members to be respectful of all speakers and this was roundly applauded by the audience.


>
> The two best speakers of the day were kids, one
> sixth grader from the South Lakes pyramid, and one
> high-schooler not affected by the study who
> supports redistricting. With their wisdom and
> grace, they showed up each and every opponent of
> redistricting.

The sixth grader appeared to be an impressive kid who gave a very well delivered speech mostly about how he had already been through several school changes and interacted with many communities through different activities. He spoke mostly about how well he had adapted to the changes and was still able to make new friends easily while still seeing others (from other schools) through activities outside school. On one hand, there was no doubt he seemed like a great kid, and while it was a very good speech about his personal experience it hardly presented a valid all-encompassing argument for redistricting.

How dare you accuse the people of Floris and Fox Mill of anything other than an honest effort to be heard and support their children! Shame on you!

Anonymous Wrote:
> ... You pick and choose what you want to believe to
> support your given conclusion thorugh cognitive
> dissonance. This is the same fallacy that FCPS
> uses for their flawed boundary studies and other
> ill advised money wasting initiatives.


Can you please explain what you mean when you write, "You pick and choose what you want to believe to support your given conclusion thorugh cognitive dissonance"?

I understand that cognitive dissonance is a feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts or beliefs at the same time. Are you trying to say, "When two of your beliefs are in conflict you choose which one to continue to believe"?

In any case, whatever are you talking about?

------------------------------

MOST big public construction projects, funded by bond sales, are approved by us voters. Kindly tell us about the bond referendum in which we, the taxpayers, approved the SCSS.

------------------------------

FCPS has to arrange its construction and renovation projects within the budget cap set by the County. Going back to the Proposed FY 2005-FY 09 CIP [the one discussed in the press release that you quoted] the total FCPS CIP project budget is as follows (page 43; numbers rounded to the nearest million):
FY 05 $128M
FY 06 $133M
FY 07 $131M
FY 08 $131M
FY 09 $129M

FCPS was holding pretty close to the County-imposed CIP cap of $130M per year on the average. Any disagreements so far?

Now look at page 41 for a breakdown of expenses per project per year. Space on this thread is limited so I will list only the annual budget for four of the biggest projects.
Year / SCSS / Glasgow / So Lakes Renewal / Woodson Renewal
Prior years: $3M / $1M / $2M / $1M
FY 05 $4M / 0 / 0 / 0
FY 06 $20M / $2M / $13M / 0
FY 07 $26M / $2M / $30M / 13M
FY 08 $10M / $24M / $12M / $20M
FY 09 0 / $13M / 0 / $17M

These data show planning for the Glasgow, South Lakes, and Woodson projects had already started prior to FY 05, then the projects came essentially to a halt to a halt for a year (South Lakes) or two (Woodson) or three (Glasgow) while at the same time the budget for the SCSS filled the CIP funding limit.

So yes, the Glasgow, South Lakes, and Woodson communities "assume a causal relationship here between SC construction and renovation delays."

----------
Is anyone else having trouble accessing the FCPS site? Did we crash it?

"Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WITNESS (IP Logged)
Date: February 09, 2008 04:41PM


LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING MEETING.

She confronted the speaker in the outside lobby after his presentation which was critical of the school boards performance over the last ten years.

She raised her voice and waved her finger in his face and then made disparaging remarks about his nationality and his ethnic background.

All this was done as the speaker was walking away from her and several people witness her attack.

This was a very unprofessional way that this school board member acted. She should not be a school board member if she is not able to take criticism from faiffax county taxpayers."

Witness, please send a letter to the editor of the South County Chronicle and the Connection newspapers detailing Bradsher's appalling behavior. She has never been that blatant at a SCSS PTA meeting but her disdain for the Lorton families is obvious.

Did you all catch the references to one board member's email to PTAs and slanderous comments about some boy's parents?

Anonymous Wrote:
> > Please refresh my memory. What exactly was my
> > "statement that it wasn't needed before 2008
> > (or ever needed)"?
>
> Here were your words..
> Anonymous,
> Do you buy stuff just because it is on sale?
> Even if you don't need it?
> Even if you already have too much of it?
> Even though you don't have enough money for other
> stuff that you DO need and that you promised your
> kids they could have?

---------------
Wow - that one is I translation that I still cannot follow.

Once again the projections for SCSS and the adjoining high schools:
School / Capacity / 2012 / Balance %
So County / 1,700 / 1,892 / -192 / 111.3%
Hayfield / 2,125 / 2,034 / 91 / 95.7%
Lee / 1,850 1,745 / 105 / 94.3%
W Sprfld / 2,225 / 2,097 / 128 / 94.2%
Lk Brad / 2,725 / 2,223 / 502 / 81.6%
Mt Vernon* / 2,550 / 1,714 / 836 / 67.2%
TOTAL 13,175 / 11,705 / 1,470 / 88.8%
*Enrollment figures do not include Special Education Center students
Capacities & balances include modular additions

Here are the same data for the middle schools:
School / Capacity / 2012 / Balance %
So CountyMS / 800 / 924 / -124 / 115.5%
HayfieldMS / 1,100 / 1,059 / 41 / 96.3%
KeyMS* / 875 / 750 / 125 / 85.7%
IrvingMS / 1,100 / 1,022 / 78 / 92.9%
Lk BradMS / 1,350 / 1,248 / 102 / 92.4%
Whitman MS / 1,000 / 1,076 / -76 / 107.6%
MS TOTAL / 6,225 / 6,079 / 146 / 97.7%

Nope. I just cannot see a need for a South County middle school, not right now. Maybe later. "Even if it is on sale, we don't need it, we already have too much of it, and we don't have enough money for other stuff that we DO need and that we promised our kids they could have."

Redistrict South County, NOT South Lakes.

Forum Reader Wrote:

>
> ----------
> Is anyone else having trouble accessing the FCPS
> site? Did we crash it?


Website seems to have a new address; here it is: http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/index.shtml

AP vs IB Wrote:
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> > Is anyone else having trouble accessing the
> > FCPS site? Did we crash it?
>
>
> Website seems to have a new address; here it is:
> http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/index.shtml

Thank you - that works.

(Were you the one looking for information about potential changes to the IB Programme?)

WITNESS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE
> SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING MEETING.
>
> She confronted the speaker in the outside lobby
> after his presentation which was critical of the
> school boards performance over the last ten
> years.
>
> She raised her voice and waved her finger in his
> face and then made disparaging remarks about his
> nationality and his ethnic background.
>
> All this was done as the speaker was walking away
> from her and several people witness her attack.
>
> This was a very unprofessional way that this
> school board member acted. She should not be a
> school board member if she is not able to take
> criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.


If you do not agree with this SB or have the nerve to question them, then look out. The above is unacceptable behavior for a SB member at a FCPS meeting. She should resign.

ProudToWearYellow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How dare you accuse the people of Floris and Fox
> Mill of anything other than an honest effort to be
> heard and support their children! Shame on you!

If they were being honest, that would be one thing, but from an outsider's point of view. they appeared to be stretching the truth. Example: They said that one in eight SL students leaves because of IB. That is wrong. The county is sitting on a report that shows that recidivism rates for Hispanics at all schools in the County are appalling. South Lakes is probably losing many Hispanics due to drop outs, not students leaving the IB Programme.

They also did boo and hiss, which was not nice or respectful of supporters of redistricting. The same people coughed and acted up at previous hearings when redistricting supporters went over their time limits, yet I heard that a CAPS meeting the other night, they encouraged their speakers to run over their 3 minutes. I couldn't help but notice today that they did just that.

You can all say you were just advocating for your children, but some of you behaved badly and it showed to outside viewers.

FACTS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TO;
>
> J.DALE AND THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BOARD
>
> The following schools will have the most empty
> seats in the year 2012. Do you have any idea on
> how to manage the FCPS system? I think not.
>
> The below numbers are from your CIP report and I
> only listed schools that have more then 100 empty
> seats by 2012.
>
> HERNDON --- 299 C1
>
> FALLS CHURCH --- 771 C2
>
> STUART --- 124 C3
>
> HAYFIELD --- 100 C4
>
> MOUNT VERNON --- 836 C4
>
> WEST POTOMAC --- 208 C4
>
> LEE --- 205
> C5
>
> LAKE BRADDOCK --- 502 C6
>
> ROBINSON --- 211 C6
>
> WEST SPRINGFIELD --- 128 C6
>
> OAKTON --- 100 C8
>
> SOUTH LAKES --- 800 C8
>
> WESTFIELD --- 190 C8
>
> If I can figure out the above, WHY ARE YOU NOT
> ABLE TO DO THE SAME?
>
> I believe you have serious problems with capacity
> issues and I do not believe you know how to deal
> with these problems?

FAIR PLAY WRITES;

If the school board moves ahead with redistricting South Lakes, then they need to redistrict all schools that are under capacity.

All is fair in love and war.

CAPS Victims? Wrote:
> ... They said that one in eight SL students leaves
> because of IB. That is wrong. The county is
> sitting on a report that shows that recidivism
> rates for Hispanics at all schools in the County
> are appalling. South Lakes is probably losing
> many Hispanics due to drop outs, not students
> leaving the IB Programme. ...
------------

Can you restate this so we understand exactly what you are trying to communicate?
re·cid·i·vism noun. The tendency to relapse into a previous undesirable type of behavior, especially crime
- a convicted criminal who re-offends, esp. repeatedly.
- denoting such a person

The question in this case becomes: If a school (any school - I am NOT casting stones in any one direction) has a dropout problem, and if this problem is especially significant in one ethnic group, does having an IB curriculum help, hinder, or have no effect?

Post comments regarding the unnecessary South County fiasco at http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fairfaxfocus/2008/01/new_school_to_be_considered.html

Keep it very clean. The Post's editors are very heavy-handed.

Each November, examine the merits of each school bond before voting “Yes”..

......................…Just.. think about that!...................

FACTS Wrote:
> The below numbers are from your CIP report and I
> only listed schools that have more then 100 empty
> seats by 2012.

Facts, you might want to recheck these numbers:
>
> STUART --- 124
> HAYFIELD --- 100
> WEST POTOMAC --- 208
> LEE --- 205
> OAKTON --- 100
> SOUTH LAKES --- 800

CAPS Victims? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ProudToWearYellow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How dare you accuse the people of Floris and
> Fox
> > Mill of anything other than an honest effort to
> be
> > heard and support their children! Shame on
> you!
>
> If they were being honest, that would be one
> thing, but from an outsider's point of view. they
> appeared to be stretching the truth. Example:
> They said that one in eight SL students leaves
> because of IB. That is wrong. The county is
> sitting on a report that shows that recidivism
> rates for Hispanics at all schools in the County
> are appalling. South Lakes is probably losing
> many Hispanics due to drop outs, not students
> leaving the IB Programme.
>
> They also did boo and hiss, which was not nice or
> respectful of supporters of redistricting. The
> same people coughed and acted up at previous
> hearings when redistricting supporters went over
> their time limits, yet I heard that a CAPS meeting
> the other night, they encouraged their speakers to
> run over their 3 minutes. I couldn't help but
> notice today that they did just that.
>
> You can all say you were just advocating for your
> children, but some of you behaved badly and it
> showed to outside viewers.


I was there from the start until mid-afternoon. That isn't what happened at all. Everyone on all sides was well-behaved except for that one brief outburst--which was in response to a ridiculous accusation by the speaker--and it never happened again. And you are wrong about people being encouraged to run over at that meeting. Nor did they. As for "stretching the truth," reasonable people often disagree on the facts or read from different sets of statistics. That's all. Certainly, no one in the "yellow shirts" camp made any statements about how any ethnic group performed at South Lakes as you have slanderously suggested about our Latino neighbors here. Nor were they making any insulting statements about poor academic performance by people from poverty, as many supporting redistricting have done. They weren't spreading ethnic slurs; they were fighting against them. They weren't suggesting the poor were dragging down South Lakes or making it an unattractive place to attend school; many made statements about coming from poverty and the great abilities and potential of poor people. Many of those people in yellow shirts are first generation immigrants, they were desperately poor before they came here, were ESL students when they arrived and are just now earning a decent but unremarkable living in modest households trying to do the best they can for their kids. I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing a parade of affluent white people from Reston talk about the importance of "diversity" and then accusing people of Floris and Fox Mill--one of the most diverse communities anywhere--of racism and resistance to change. The people from Asia who spoke today are part of a community that is less than 3% of the US population. And they have made the ultimate choice for change--leaving their homes thousands of miles away with almost nothing but the shirts on their backs to pursue the American dream. The accusations against the people of Floris and Fox Mill are ridiculous, insulting and racist! Good for them for finally fighting back today!

While you mofos stay up arguin about this shit, do you know where little Hannah is tonight?

Good chance she's doin the nasty with a brutha. I personally fucked little Emily the other night.

If I was a good pro-life republican like y'all, I'd be more worried about little Meaghan coming home with a belly full of brown grandbaby!

Your little white ho daughters thinks us bruthas is cool...

ChantillyBrutha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While you mofos stay up arguin about this shit, do
> you know where little Hannah is tonight?
>
> Good chance she's doin the nasty with a brutha. I
> personally fucked little Emily the other night.
>
> If I was a good pro-life republican like y'all,
> I'd be more worried about little Meaghan coming
> home with a belly full of brown grandbaby!
>
> Your little white ho daughters thinks us bruthas
> is cool...


Right on, Bro!

I'm a senior at Robinson and I lost count how many rich white hos I've did.
I think they getting back at their parents by hangin wit niggaz

WITNESS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE
> SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING MEETING.
>
> She confronted the speaker in the outside lobby
> after his presentation which was critical of the
> school boards performance over the last ten
> years.
>
> She raised her voice and waved her finger in his
> face and then made disparaging remarks about his
> nationality and his ethnic background.
>
> All this was done as the speaker was walking away
> from her and several people witness her attack.
>
> This was a very unprofessional way that this
> school board member acted. She should not be a
> school board member if she is not able to take
> criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.\

REALLY??? Where any press people present? If that happened as you have stated, she should not be on the school board. We cannot have public officials insulting people, and certainly not insulting ethnicity! That's horrible.

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy is out of this, a fact that I have on good
> authority. Okay so what does that mean to the
> rest of you? I think Madison may have a chance
> but the SL people are turning up the heat against
> those 12+ kids. They must be pretty good to have
> SLPTA want them sooo bad.
>
> Here is my thought on this, if Navy gets out and
> believe they will. WHere does that leave Oakton.
> Without Navy they will become painfully under
> enrolled. So who will be chosen to replace Navy?
>
> It has to be someone from Chantilly who has
> already been involved in the study. Is there such
> a group? If not removing Navy will colaspe the
> plan wont it?

Navy's getting out of the deal? How did they manage that?

It's too late to replace Navy with other school. How under enrolled will this make Oakton? If they let Navy out of the mix, I can't believe that they won't also let the Madison Island go. 37 students can't be THAT important to South Lakes, although I know how upset those 'tolerant' folks at South Lakes will be if they don't get those 37 rich kids. Never mind that at least 35 of them will never set foot in South Lakes.

? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CAPS Victims?
>
> I am not a CAPs yellow shirt. I am not from South
> Lakes or Madison or Herndon, and still I have
> compassion for them.
>
> Who are you? I suspect you are someone whose
> child will not be moving to a new school next
> year? I suspect you are one of the gleeful South
> Lakes parents, whose kids are happy are South
> Lakes? How disrespectful are you? How much
> compassion do you lack?
>
> These parents are afraid for their children. No
> they DO NOT fear diversity. They fear the
> disruption to their children's lives. You face no
> disruption yet you sit in judgement of these
> people. How insensitive you must be!

You've nailed it. There is no more insensitive, intolerant, group, than the South Lakes parents. They HATE anyone who disagrees with them, anyone who chooses a school, other than South Lakes, for their child. No one can make a choice other than their choice. Every family must do as they do. They are VERY intolerant of anyone who is different from them, very nasty about any family that chooses something different for their children. Choose their way, choose their school, or you will be lambasted and called racist, called intolerant, and called a hater of diversity. I've never seen such a rigid, intolerant, lock step, group. Their intolerance, of any and all differences, borders on scary.

>>>>Actually hope Stu does not get recalled since he might be the only one with the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the South County Middle school and anything else outrageous those people want.<<<

When did Stu ever do something like that? Didn't he vote for the South County high school that we don't need?

Is it true that Stu recall petitions will be available to sign at the polls on Tuesday? I assume that they will be available throughout Fox Mill and Floris districts.

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy will get out.
>
> So someone tell me what does that mean for Fox
> mill? If they take all of those Oakton kids out
> of Oakton but dont put any back what does that
> mean for Fox Mill?
>
> Kathy Smith has been very open about wanting Navy
> out. Stu doesnt care about Navy because they dont
> help South Lakes.
>
> So??????????? Either some group takes their place
> or the entire study falls apart. Either way there
> is hardly anyone on the SB in support of bringing
> Navy to Oakton.

Kathy could vote against this plan, so that she appears to be supporting her Navy families, while knowing that the redistricting will pass without her vote. But I thought she supported reducing the enrollment at Chantilly. Has she changed her mind?

I really doubt that most school board members care if Navy kids go to Oakton or Chantilly. Most school board members couldn't find Navy elementary if they had to. And they don't.

>>>>FAIR PLAY WRITES;

If the school board moves ahead with redistricting South Lakes, then they need to redistrict all schools that are under capacity.

All is fair in love and war.<<<

Why would any other school board member want to volunteer for this nightmare? After what Stu has been through will South Lakes, they won't touch redistricting.

Neen wrote:
---------------------------------------
>REALLY??? Where any press people present? If that happened as you have stated, >she should not be on the school board. We cannot have public officials insulting >people, and certainly not insulting ethnicity! That's horrible


What? A conservative looking for "press people"?!?! LOL

Hey folks, Stu and Liz (et al) were elected in free elections just like George Bush was. Nobody is going to be recalled (or impeached, in dubya's case)....get over it.

Just imagine if the losers' constituents (and worse, people that aren't even in their district) could recall the winners of FREE elections! You assholes are anarchists!

Say, are the privates putting out the "No Vacancy" signs yet?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2008 12:42AM by duh.

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
>
> >
> > ----------
> > Is anyone else having trouble accessing the
> FCPS
> > site? Did we crash it?
>
>
> Website seems to have a new address; here it is:
> http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/index.shtml

It would be nice if they redirected people from the old web address. Perhaps they're hiding from us? (JK)

Duh, you are correct about Bush, dead wrong about Stu. It's been alot easier to get 2,500 signatures to recall Stu than it has been to get the democrats in the House to vote to impeach Bush. That's a bit higher bar. So to speak.

duh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen wrote:
> ---------------------------------------
> >REALLY??? Where any press people present? If that
> happened as you have stated, >she should not be on
> the school board. We cannot have public officials
> insulting >people, and certainly not insulting
> ethnicity! That's horrible
>
>
> What? A conservative looking for "press
> people"?!?! LOL
>
> Hey folks, Stu and Liz (et al) were elected in
> free elections just like George Bush was. Nobody
> is going to be recalled (or impeached, in dubya's
> case)....get over it.
>
> Just imagine if the losers' constituents (and
> worse, people that aren't even in their district)
> could recall the winners of FREE elections! You
> assholes are anarchists!
>
> Say, are the privates putting out the "No Vacancy"
> signs yet?


There are a lot of Democrats opposed to this redistricting fiasco. And many are opposed to Stu. But the issues are separate. The state board of education found that Stu had violated a student's privacy, not Republicans or Democrats. Most people were oblivious to this during the election. Many people were also not tuned in to the redistricting until the public hearings following the election. (Besides, those who were interested didn't have many clearly anti-redistricting candidates to support--Christine Arakelian certainly wasn't against redistricting.) So, while the issues are separate, the disgust over Stu's treatment of his constituents in Floris and Fox Mill is driving people to learn about and sign the petition. And, anyway, an election isn't a coronation, Duh. Elected officials are still subject to the law, whenever we might happen to discover they've broken it. And they are also obligated to represent their constituents and if they don't we have the right (though we rarely exercise it) to tell them to take a hike through a recall petition. So, stop treating these petty tyrants like kings.

Oh, and as for the press, they know. And they're going to know more.

YellowRules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> duh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen wrote:
> > ---------------------------------------
> > >REALLY??? Where any press people present? If
> that
> > happened as you have stated, >she should not be
> on
> > the school board. We cannot have public
> officials
> > insulting >people, and certainly not insulting
> > ethnicity! That's horrible
> >
> >
> > What? A conservative looking for "press
> > people"?!?! LOL
> >
> > Hey folks, Stu and Liz (et al) were elected in
> > free elections just like George Bush was.
> Nobody
> > is going to be recalled (or impeached, in
> dubya's
> > case)....get over it.
> >
> > Just imagine if the losers' constituents (and
> > worse, people that aren't even in their
> district)
> > could recall the winners of FREE elections!
> You
> > assholes are anarchists!
> >
> > Say, are the privates putting out the "No
> Vacancy"
> > signs yet?
>
>
> There are a lot of Democrats opposed to this
> redistricting fiasco. And many are opposed to
> Stu. But the issues are separate. The state
> board of education found that Stu had violated a
> student's privacy, not Republicans or Democrats.
> Most people were oblivious to this during the
> election. Many people were also not tuned in to
> the redistricting until the public hearings
> following the election. (Besides, those who were
> interested didn't have many clearly
> anti-redistricting candidates to
> support--Christine Arakelian certainly wasn't
> against redistricting.) So, while the issues are
> separate, the disgust over Stu's treatment of his
> constituents in Floris and Fox Mill is driving
> people to learn about and sign the petition. And,
> anyway, an election isn't a coronation, Duh.
> Elected officials are still subject to the law,
> whenever we might happen to discover they've
> broken it. And they are also obligated to
> represent their constituents and if they don't we
> have the right (though we rarely exercise it) to
> tell them to take a hike through a recall
> petition. So, stop treating these petty tyrants
> like kings.
>
> Oh, and as for the press, they know. And they're
> going to know more.


You're grasping at straws...Stu will not be recalled on some minor technicality. Oh wait, maybe Stu will get caught with Monica and her cigars! Maybe then you'll have a shot...

What press? Certainly not litter like the the Connection, etc? I hope you don't think the only serious press around here (the liberal rag, Washington Post) will rough up a Democrat for trying to promote "diversity"...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2008 01:58AM by duh.

didny have enoughtime to read all comments but this is just going to stir more kids up and more fights.. the south lakes kids are gonna call oakton kids snobs then thye are going to fight back and worse things will happen.. prob needs to happen to get people to wake the fuck up... shit is stupid these days the whole system is and its for the most part to late

and u oakton parents if u dont want ur kids there then have them go pick some beef with some of the latino gang members have something happen and then show the people how the situation isnt safe..

Is anyone having trouble emailing the school board or other FCPS officials?

What about the FCPS web site?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP vs IB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum Reader Wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > Is anyone else having trouble accessing the
> > FCPS
> > > site? Did we crash it?
> >
> >
> > Website seems to have a new address; here it



> is:
> > http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/index.shtml
>
> It would be nice if they redirected people from
> the old web address. Perhaps they're hiding from
> us? (JK)


YES

ProudToWearYellow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CAPS Victims? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ProudToWearYellow Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > How dare you accuse the people of Floris and
> > Fox
> > > Mill of anything other than an honest effort
> to
> > be
> > > heard and support their children! Shame on
> > you!
> >
> > If they were being honest, that would be one
> > thing, but from an outsider's point of view.
> they
> > appeared to be stretching the truth. Example:
> > They said that one in eight SL students leaves
> > because of IB. That is wrong. The county is
> > sitting on a report that shows that recidivism
> > rates for Hispanics at all schools in the
> County
> > are appalling. South Lakes is probably losing
> > many Hispanics due to drop outs, not students
> > leaving the IB Programme.
> >
> > They also did boo and hiss, which was not nice
> or
> > respectful of supporters of redistricting. The
> > same people coughed and acted up at previous
> > hearings when redistricting supporters went
> over
> > their time limits, yet I heard that a CAPS
> meeting
> > the other night, they encouraged their speakers
> to
> > run over their 3 minutes. I couldn't help but
> > notice today that they did just that.
> >
> > You can all say you were just advocating for
> your
> > children, but some of you behaved badly and it
> > showed to outside viewers.
>
>
> I was there from the start until mid-afternoon.
> That isn't what happened at all. Everyone on all
> sides was well-behaved except for that one brief
> outburst--which was in response to a ridiculous
> accusation by the speaker--and it never happened
> again. And you are wrong about people being
> encouraged to run over at that meeting. Nor did
> they. As for "stretching the truth," reasonable
> people often disagree on the facts or read from
> different sets of statistics. That's all.
> Certainly, no one in the "yellow shirts" camp made
> any statements about how any ethnic group
> performed at South Lakes as you have slanderously
> suggested about our Latino neighbors here. Nor
> were they making any insulting statements about
> poor academic performance by people from poverty,
> as many supporting redistricting have done. They
> weren't spreading ethnic slurs; they were fighting
> against them. They weren't suggesting the poor
> were dragging down South Lakes or making it an
> unattractive place to attend school; many made
> statements about coming from poverty and the great
> abilities and potential of poor people. Many of
> those people in yellow shirts are first generation
> immigrants, they were desperately poor before they
> came here, were ESL students when they arrived and
> are just now earning a decent but unremarkable
> living in modest households trying to do the best
> they can for their kids. I, for one, am sick and
> tired of hearing a parade of affluent white people
> from Reston talk about the importance of
> "diversity" and then accusing people of Floris and
> Fox Mill--one of the most diverse communities
> anywhere--of racism and resistance to change. The
> people from Asia who spoke today are part of a
> community that is less than 3% of the US
> population. And they have made the ultimate
> choice for change--leaving their homes thousands
> of miles away with almost nothing but the shirts
> on their backs to pursue the American dream. The
> accusations against the people of Floris and Fox
> Mill are ridiculous, insulting and racist! Good
> for them for finally fighting back today!

I saw the standard Restonians used to getting slammed more subtley by The Balanced Successful Community take on what they assumed was another version of a Balanced Successful Community only from a different side of South Lakes.

Guess what? They found a different Successful Community that appears to be majority Asian and parents still have accents. A quality State Dept style education or the practice of International Law is not what they're looking for - funny thing is schools with numbers who would want it have very few pupil placements into IB. IB is a huge escape clause for Falls Church HS.

South Lakes IB pupil placements from Herndon are I guess a lot of ex Hughes GT center kids. Marshall gets a lot from other schools like who went to Kilmer or Longfellow GT centers. Carson is a huge GT center but the students are not flowing into South Lakes at the same rate in my guesstimate.

Seems to me that these ex GTC kids might be a big chunk of who actually gets one or is close to getting an IB diploma. When those kids express concern on the language requirements and course preparation they are not kidding. Also if a family might move out of this area IB can really complicate things.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WITNESS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE
> > SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING MEETING.
> >
> > She confronted the speaker in the outside lobby
> > after his presentation which was critical of
> the
> > school boards performance over the last ten
> > years.
> >
> > She raised her voice and waved her finger in
> his
> > face and then made disparaging remarks about
> his
> > nationality and his ethnic background.
> >
> > All this was done as the speaker was walking
> away
> > from her and several people witness her attack.
> >
> > This was a very unprofessional way that this
> > school board member acted. She should not be a
> > school board member if she is not able to take
> > criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.\
>
> REALLY??? Where any press people present? If
> that happened as you have stated, she should not
> be on the school board. We cannot have public
> officials insulting people, and certainly not
> insulting ethnicity! That's horrible.


All of the above happened. There were several FairFaxCaps people present and they also witnessed the attack.