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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:43PM

cominin4landing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ooo, ooo, ooo, maybe there will be moving
> sidewalks with cavemen on them to help move the
> 2000 students along. all the kids would have to
> be on FRL so they can afford to eat the airport
> snacks. On a "oh-well" note, the clear
> "security-approved" backpacks will be a throwback
> to the eighties. But on the brighter side,
> everybody can wear their fancy hospital like
> slippers around to class. lol!

...yes!, and, we'll have Cinnabon, and Washington Flyer, and ramp agents parking the buses, too.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: RDVictim ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:50PM

I know nothing about SL before this mess. Now my perception is that SL is not a good fit for my kids. Thanks for all the SL supporter's posting here, it convinced me more.

Saw people argue with Achievement, seems to me like you are just play music to a cow. Why it is so hard for them to understand SL is good in your perception not us. I am happy it works for you, can you at least just leave us alone and let us be happy with our school too. Am I ask too much?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:54PM

RDVictim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know nothing about SL before this mess. Now my
> perception is that SL is not a good fit for my
> kids. Thanks for all the SL supporter's posting
> here, it convinced me more.
>
> Saw people argue with Achievement, seems to me
> like you are just play music to a cow. Why it is
> so hard for them to understand SL is good in your
> perception not us. I am happy it works for you,
> can you at least just leave us alone and let us be
> happy with our school too. Am I ask too much?

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about South Lakes. Why don't you stop by for a visit and see for yourself?

Thanks for such an amusing image! It made me smile. I guess there is a lot of cow-song going on here. On all sides. As for me, I love those bovine lullabies. Listening to every note. Off to my shed for the night.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:59PM

STU AND KATHY HAVE REALLY DRAGGED THE SCHOOL BOARD TO NEW LOWS WITH YET ANOTHER SCENARIO(S). HOW CAN YOU NARROW DOWN THE CHOICES AND THEN SUDDENLY EXPAND AND PULL OTHERS BACK INTO PLAY. HELLO? ARE WE MAKING PROGRESS HERE? NOT THAT ANYBODY SHOULD BE FORCED TO SLHS BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ENJOY %UCKING WITH EVERYBODYS HEADS.

I CAN'T HELP BUT PICTURE AN ENDLESS STREAM OF CLOWNS CLIMBING OUT A VOLKSWAGON WHEN I THINK OF THE SCHOOL BOARD.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: cominin4landing ()
Date: February 12, 2008 12:20AM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cominin4landing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ooo, ooo, ooo, maybe there will be moving
> > sidewalks with cavemen on them to help move the
> > 2000 students along. all the kids would have
> to
> > be on FRL so they can afford to eat the airport
> > snacks. On a "oh-well" note, the clear
> > "security-approved" backpacks will be a
> throwback
> > to the eighties. But on the brighter side,
> > everybody can wear their fancy hospital like
> > slippers around to class. lol!
>
> ...yes!, and, we'll have Cinnabon, and Washington
> Flyer, and ramp agents parking the buses, too.

hee, hee, hee! yummm, I like Cinnabon. I guess it will house the new ATC magnet. Wonder what they will do about delayed openings?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: BobEvans ()
Date: February 12, 2008 12:29AM

Achievement Wrote:

Why don't you stop by for a visit and see
> for yourself?
>

If I didn't know any better, I'd think that South Lakes HS was a welcome center on the Jersey Turnpike. Do you all sell snow-globes and Nodoz in the cafeteria, too? How about maps to nearby Bed and Breakfasts? And cow lullabies? are these available near the "books-on-tape" collection?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 12:32AM

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Elizabeth, why be anonymous? As President of
> > SLPTA, surely you want everyone to know who you
> > are. Aren't you the one who said it was
> 'creepy'
> > to post anonymously? Or was that Maria?
>
>
> Elizabeth has NEVER posted here and Maria has
> posted with her true name. Achievement is not
> either of them.

Hahahaha........Even YOU cannot believe that! Of course they've posted here, under various nics.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 12:49AM

According to some well placed sources, Kathy's new scenarion, 11B is the following:

Navy stays as is
Fox Mill split between Oakton and South Lakes (to back fill Oakton)
Move more of Floris into South Lakes
Madison Island to South Lakes

Stu's scenario 12:
Navy stays as is
All of Fox Mill to South Lakes
Floris is split with the same part going to South Lakes as current proposal and the other part of Floris going (back) to Oakton (to back fill Oakton)
Madison Island to South Lakes

Staff was asked if Oakton HAD to be backfilled. Answer: No
Hone asked staff if all 632 students being sent to South Lakes wanted to pupil place out, would they be allowed to do that. Staff hemmed and hawed but ultimately said, yes, students redistricted to South Lakes would be allowed to pupil place back into AP schools. VERY good news.

Again I will predict that this boundary change will not work. It's obvious now that despite Kathy's previous statements that students had to leave Chantilly because of overcrowding, no students will leave Chantilly. Some part of Floris and Fox Mill be redistricted into South Lakes. (Most likely as it stands now, all of Fox Mill, and part of Floris) Oakton will be left with hundreds of empty seats which will be filled by redistricted, pupil placed, students, who want AP and want to remain in Oakton.

This could be a wining scenario. No one will be forced to go to South Lakes. Those who want out will be able to pupil place at Oakton. Of course it won't help South Lakes but this process was so flawed, from beginning to end, that was inevitable.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 12:56AM

Also, there will be a public hearing to address the latest scenarios on 2/19 and another work session on 2/21, prior to the vote on February 28th.

I am rather shocked that new areas are in play and the public only has a week to learn about it and to sign up to comment on the 19th. That's one of the reasons why I don't think the scenario will change, other than to leave out Navy to Oakton. The vote will be on option #5, minus Navy.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FreeSpeech ()
Date: February 12, 2008 01:02AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, there will be a public hearing to address
> the latest scenarios on 2/19 and another work
> session on 2/21, prior to the vote on February
> 28th.
>
> I am rather shocked that new areas are in play and
> the public only has a week to learn about it and
> to sign up to comment on the 19th. That's one of
> the reasons why I don't think the scenario will
> change, other than to leave out Navy to Oakton.
> The vote will be on option #5, minus Navy.


It is possible that not ALL the public will be allowed to comment at this new public "hearing" to review these surprise proposals...

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 01:14AM

FreeSpeech Wrote:

>
>
> It is possible that not ALL the public will be
> allowed to comment at this new public "hearing" to
> review these surprise proposals...

True. Most people in the newly effected areas won't even know about it before the hearing.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FreeSpeech ()
Date: February 12, 2008 02:43AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FreeSpeech Wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > It is possible that not ALL the public will be
> > allowed to comment at this new public "hearing"
> to
> > review these surprise proposals...
>
> True. Most people in the newly effected areas
> won't even know about it before the hearing.


That's absolutely true, but it's not what I meant. There is a rumor that they will limit speakers at the hearing only to those who haven't spoken before. Even though these are new proposals. Trying to shut out dissent, I guess.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ParentOf4 ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:19AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to some well placed sources, Kathy's new
> scenarion, 11B is the following:
>
> Navy stays as is
> Fox Mill split between Oakton and South Lakes (to
> back fill Oakton)
> Move more of Floris into South Lakes
> Madison Island to South Lakes
>
> Stu's scenario 12:
> Navy stays as is
> All of Fox Mill to South Lakes
> Floris is split with the same part going to South
> Lakes as current proposal and the other part of
> Floris going (back) to Oakton (to back fill
> Oakton)
> Madison Island to South Lakes
>
> Staff was asked if Oakton HAD to be backfilled.
> Answer: No
> Hone asked staff if all 632 students being sent to
> South Lakes wanted to pupil place out, would they
> be allowed to do that. Staff hemmed and hawed but
> ultimately said, yes, students redistricted to
> South Lakes would be allowed to pupil place back
> into AP schools. VERY good news.
>
> Again I will predict that this boundary change
> will not work. It's obvious now that despite
> Kathy's previous statements that students had to
> leave Chantilly because of overcrowding, no
> students will leave Chantilly. Some part of Floris
> and Fox Mill be redistricted into South Lakes.
> (Most likely as it stands now, all of Fox Mill,
> and part of Floris) Oakton will be left with
> hundreds of empty seats which will be filled by
> redistricted, pupil placed, students, who want AP
> and want to remain in Oakton.
>
> This could be a wining scenario. No one will be
> forced to go to South Lakes. Those who want out
> will be able to pupil place at Oakton. Of course
> it won't help South Lakes but this process was so
> flawed, from beginning to end, that was
> inevitable.


Interesting how it leaves Chantilly's enrollment the same, takes the few Floris people out of Westfield, sends some on a LONGER commute to Oakton, and some to SLHS where they can pupil place right back out again. They have accomplished nothing really, other than put Floris up for longer commutes and McNair to Herndon (wasn't that part of the deal?) Do you think they will notice that it doesn't accomplish their original criterion?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Anonymous ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:24AM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anonymous Wrote:
> > ... People moved from Hayfield to South County
> because
> > they thought the process was valid and the
> > projections were accurate and there wouldn't be
> > overcrowding at South County in spite of the
> > community having accurate numbers.
> >
> > Nobody except Forum Reader believes FCPS
> > projections anymore
> >
> ------------
> Process and projections had little to do with it;
> they knew SCSS would be crowded if the lines were
> drawn the way they are but everyone wanted to go
> to the new school. People who fought hard to have
> SCSS built did not want to stay in Hayfield. The
> School Board did not have the courage to say "no"
> to more of them. Look at the Lorton area, the
> locations of SCSS and Hayfield, and the roads, AND
> look at Fort Belvoir and the limited access
> through it and you might sympathize with these
> families.
>
> FCPS projections are not perfect, but no one has
> presented any better. If you have some, with web
> site and source, I'd be happy to look at them.

FR-
Sorry I never did get back to you. Use the raw data here:
http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/

Go by cohorts and adjust starting with an adjustment using the 5 year average of inflows or outflows. This is the standard FCPS model for projections. Once you understand the model FCPS uses and backtest for errors you can see the problems and adjust.

To your point, it started with the politics as it always does, then it contaminated the process and then from there the projections were adjusted to fit the desired result. So all three played a role and at the time people were naive to the role of the politics. Many people had numbers more accurate than FCPS projections which is why they were forced to have a projection task force.

Since you are adept with the CIP go back say 2 years and see where schools were projected to be today and where they actually are now. McKibben recommends a 2% per year error variance.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 12, 2008 07:07AM

It is true that speech will be limited to only participants from newly affected areas and that the only topic that may be discussed is the proposed amendments.

They will take 125.

There are very serious doubts on the board right now. Yesterday was a CLUSTER F. Many sat there holding their heads. Someone got it all on tape. Maybe it will be posted to Youtube and everyone can see.

Really it was the best thing anyone opposed to RD could hope for. The insanity of RD was on display for all to see. The looks on the faces of the SL PTAs told the story. They know which way this is going. Their beloved IB Programme has been tarnished if not destroyed, they have been through the mill for this one, not to say they didnt do it to themselves but it appears to be falling apart due to the extreme egos of Stu and Kathy.

By the way whoever said that Navy will get alone is inaccurate. They cannot take Navy out without taking some or all of Fox Mill off the table. It leaves Oakton too under enrolled. To quote the phrase that Herndon coined 'dont balance one school at the detriment of another' or something like that. I cant keep up with it all.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ALARMED ()
Date: February 12, 2008 07:18AM

THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL STOP THE SCHOOL BOARD IS WITH;

LAWSUITS LAWSUITS AND MORE LAWSUITS

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 07:25AM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is true that speech will be limited to only
> participants from newly affected areas and that
> the only topic that may be discussed is the
> proposed amendments.
>
> They will take 125.
>
> There are very serious doubts on the board right
> now. Yesterday was a CLUSTER F. Many sat there
> holding their heads. Someone got it all on tape.
> Maybe it will be posted to Youtube and everyone
> can see.
>
> Really it was the best thing anyone opposed to RD
> could hope for. The insanity of RD was on display
> for all to see. The looks on the faces of the SL
> PTAs told the story. They know which way this is
> going. Their beloved IB Programme has been
> tarnished if not destroyed, they have been through
> the mill for this one, not to say they didnt do it
> to themselves but it appears to be falling apart
> due to the extreme egos of Stu and Kathy.
>
> By the way whoever said that Navy will get alone
> is inaccurate. They cannot take Navy out without
> taking some or all of Fox Mill off the table. It
> leaves Oakton too under enrolled. To quote the
> phrase that Herndon coined 'dont balance one
> school at the detriment of another' or something
> like that. I cant keep up with it all.


Gosh which is why the SL folks should have thought of better ways to market their school way before anybody from the SL community or any supporters of the SL community breathed the word "more kids". Or having Stu having the guts to tell them we need to come up with alternatives (I guess he didn't?)..sounds like this RD would be a major flop ..just wait til the newly affected ones have a field day with the SB at the next public hearing.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 07:26AM

I find this very ironic.
First you all complain that they don't listen to you.

Now that they are proposing new options to factor in your input, you complain that they are schizophrenic.

Which do you prefer, then?

I think they are bending over backwards to try and please everyone. An impossible task. This is probably why other counties don't even have public input when they do redistricting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 08:23AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FACTS ()
Date: February 12, 2008 07:39AM

ALARMED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL STOP THE SCHOOL BOARD IS
> WITH;
>
> LAWSUITS LAWSUITS AND MORE LAWSUITS


Facts agrees;

You have 201 pages of one group fighting another group. You have 201 pages of ideas regarding who should go where, so long as it is not me.

You are missing the target, the target is the corrupt school board and you need to stop this redistricting FIASCO now.

Lawsuits ASAP

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:11AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find this very ironic.
> First you all complain that they don't listen to
> you.
>
> Now that they are proposing new options to factor
> in your input, you complain that they are
> schizophrenic.
>
> Which do you prefer, then?
>
> I think they are bending over backwards to try and
> please everyone. An impossible task. This is
> probably why other counties don't even have public
> input.


Uhh, where is there the slightest evidence that they have considered any input from the Madison Island and Floris?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Bulldog Mom ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:19AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find this very ironic.
> First you all complain that they don't listen to
> you.
>
> Now that they are proposing new options to factor
> in your input, you complain that they are
> schizophrenic.
>
> Which do you prefer, then?
>
> I think they are bending over backwards to try and
> please everyone. An impossible task. This is
> probably why other counties don't even have public
> input.

How do these new options have anything to do with listening to the public? I don't think I heard ANYONE mention these.

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Circus in Town
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:20AM

This looks like a circus in town !!
Amazing display of incompetence. Mind you there are a couple of Ph.Ds and a few folks with at least a Masters degree in their belt. Seems like the rest of the board is just Baffled with Stu and Kathy show.

The most telling comment was they will let all 632 students who are redestricted to South Lakes pupil place out of South Lakes because South Lakes does not offer AP program. HELLO !! Isn't the current way better? Let people pupil place their kids into South Lakes who want IB program for their kids!!

Amazing waste of tax payer dollars to satisfy the ego of STU GIBSON. Will someone in the board have courage to say enough is enough and stop this MADNESS.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:31AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find this very ironic.
> First you all complain that they don't listen to
> you.

Not true. I have previously posted that the School Board does merit our input, and that we cannot control how they will use it.

> Now that they are proposing new options to factor
> in your input, you complain that they are
> schizophrenic.

Not completely true. I observe that the combination of the current scope and criteria are forcing them into unavoidable contradictions. This is not schizophrenia.

> Which do you prefer, then?

Schizophrenia

> I think they are bending over backwards to try and
> please everyone. An impossible task.

True, but in good faith they must make a substantial effort to find the benefit for all parties, not just one.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 08:33AM

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I find this very ironic.
> > First you all complain that they don't listen
> to
> > you.
> >
> > Now that they are proposing new options to
> factor
> > in your input, you complain that they are
> > schizophrenic.
> >
> > Which do you prefer, then?
> >
> > I think they are bending over backwards to try
> and
> > please everyone. An impossible task. This is
> > probably why other counties don't even have
> public
> > input.
>
>
> Uhh, where is there the slightest evidence that
> they have considered any input from the Madison
> Island and Floris?

Both new options don't move Navy, addressing their concerns. Floris has said they don't want to be split. At least one of the options keeps Floris together, going to SL. This creates a split feeder at Fox Mill. The other option keeps Fox Mill together.

Again, since there is no option that will make everyone happy, the SB is trying to find an option that will work for most people. Again, they don't really even have to have public input, and maybe they shouldn't next time. I think the SB is ill advised to try and make everyone happy, that was the downfall of the South County debacle, and now this.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ParentOf4 ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:34AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find this very ironic.
> First you all complain that they don't listen to
> you.
>
> Now that they are proposing new options to factor
> in your input, you complain that they are
> schizophrenic.
>
> Which do you prefer, then?
>
> I think they are bending over backwards to try and
> please everyone. An impossible task. This is
> probably why other counties don't even have public
> input when they do redistricting.


They are completely ignoring Floris community input...The Floris community seems to be there only for the purpose of balancing out the scale. Partial listening would be to not split communities, full listening would be to fix up the South Lakes house before inviting people in...

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: BUDS ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:38AM

FoxMillUnited Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have young children and I never heard bad things
> about South Lakes. I'm ok with going there. My
> friends too. Maybe others are not. Ok. But why are
> they thinking to split Fox Mill? Why not keep us
> together? Wouldn't that be better? Where are they
> splitting us? Do they know that our roads cross
> over fairfax county pkwy so we are still one
> place?


You have your buddy, Erika, to thank for this. You might stroll over to the other side of the creek and give her a high-five!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HerndonHSDad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:39AM

Madcow desease? Yes, that must be what Gibson and Smith are getting now. Hello, are you kidding me? SLHS PTA does not want McNair because they are incompetent Title I school, bottom of the bottom in the county. And now, they want to push those same Title I students to our Herndon HS? This is extremely selfish. Madcow Gibson want to put good students into SLHS to pump up their testing score of SLHS, the worst performing HS in the county. I don't give a damn about that and I don't care. But now, they are pushing Title I students into Herndon HS to drag down our scores. What is this? Does the school board want to start a War among all communities in West county? We can all see that, the origin of the War is SLHS. No wonder by now, the only people who have any good things to say about SLHS are those same people from SLHS. By the way, did you all see that, out of so many parents from SLHS, Achievement is the only one who is capable to write on this board. That tells you something about SLHS even though they try to portrait them as someone special.
Watching the work session, I found it really entertained that, all students who are pushed into SLHS will eventually pupil placed back to their own HSs. The only students who would not pupil placed will be no good anyway. I was laughing hard while watching those bunch of SB members sitting there for silent after realizing that they are doing the dumbing thing in the world.
One thing for sure, whoever linked to SLHS will get really dumb. I am sure if the SB works on other HS, they will not be this dumb. Now, bottom line is, SLHS has no right to push all the Title I McNair kids to us if they don't want them. This is sick!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:39AM

South Lakes pyramid parent,

Classic case of we don't care what the rest of the community thinks but we want those warm bodies anyway and next time the board should just do it without asking anyone.

Have you thought about the scenario where each and every kid placed in South Lakes can opt out to be pupil placed in a AP school. Where will your bodies come from then?

Can we all step back and really focus on the issue at hand here? I think the lack of AP (and there may be some other problems) is driving kids away from South Lakes.

Just my 2 cents worth.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:44AM

HerndonHSDad

Do you see now how it feels!! You don't want those McNair kids as they are discards from South Lakes and will drive down your test scores. People call us racist when Floris parents say we don't want to go to south lakes because their test scores are poor.

Do we as a community realize what this is doing to us? We are pitted against each other. In real lives we are good friends, relatives but this is what school board has done to us.

All of us need to get united and just say no to redestricting !!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:47AM

HerndonHSDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madcow desease? Yes, that must be what Gibson and
> Smith are getting now. Hello, are you kidding me?
> SLHS PTA does not want McNair because they are
> incompetent Title I school, bottom of the bottom
> in the county. And now, they want to push those
> same Title I students to our Herndon HS? This is
> extremely selfish. Madcow Gibson want to put good
> students into SLHS to pump up their testing score
> of SLHS, the worst performing HS in the county. I
> don't give a damn about that and I don't care. But
> now, they are pushing Title I students into
> Herndon HS to drag down our scores. What is this?
> Does the school board want to start a War among
> all communities in West county? We can all see
> that, the origin of the War is SLHS. No wonder by
> now, the only people who have any good things to
> say about SLHS are those same people from SLHS. By
> the way, did you all see that, out of so many
> parents from SLHS, Achievement is the only one who
> is capable to write on this board. That tells you
> something about SLHS even though they try to
> portrait them as someone special.
> Watching the work session, I found it really
> entertained that, all students who are pushed into
> SLHS will eventually pupil placed back to their
> own HSs. The only students who would not pupil
> placed will be no good anyway. I was laughing hard
> while watching those bunch of SB members sitting
> there for silent after realizing that they are
> doing the dumbing thing in the world.
> One thing for sure, whoever linked to SLHS will
> get really dumb. I am sure if the SB works on
> other HS, they will not be this dumb. Now, bottom
> line is, SLHS has no right to push all the Title I
> McNair kids to us if they don't want them. This is
> sick!


Didn't some of the speakers from the Herndon community say they would take in more kids, but would not let any more kids away from them? I agree this is stupid and totally messed up. The RD should be let go for now and let parents pupil place their kids to SL for the IB program or through their open enrollment for the Gen Ed. I mean it is very difficult with redistricting any communities from AP based high schools to an IB high school. There would be apt to be alot of p'ssed off parents and now it's been happening.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: CircusWatcher ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:52AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes pyramid parent,
>
> Classic case of we don't care what the rest of the
> community thinks but we want those warm bodies
> anyway and next time the board should just do it
> without asking anyone.
>
> Have you thought about the scenario where each and
> every kid placed in South Lakes can opt out to be
> pupil placed in a AP school. Where will your
> bodies come from then?
>
> Can we all step back and really focus on the issue
> at hand here? I think the lack of AP (and there
> may be some other problems) is driving kids away
> from South Lakes.
>
> Just my 2 cents worth.


I don't think it's the lack of AP that drives kids away. It's SLHS that drives kids away. Even if they have AP, no one with a right mind will send their kids their unless they have no choice. I have been watching this RD and found it very entertaining. Interesting enough, the more SLHS presents itself, the less symphathy it gets from people. Now, SLHS PTA is portraited as some dirty bunch who corrupted Gibson to get what they want.
This circus is good. Keep rolling!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Justanotherdad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:54AM

?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:58AM

CircusWatcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes pyramid parent,
> >
> > Classic case of we don't care what the rest of
> the
> > community thinks but we want those warm bodies
> > anyway and next time the board should just do
> it
> > without asking anyone.
> >
> > Have you thought about the scenario where each
> and
> > every kid placed in South Lakes can opt out to
> be
> > pupil placed in a AP school. Where will your
> > bodies come from then?
> >
> > Can we all step back and really focus on the
> issue
> > at hand here? I think the lack of AP (and
> there
> > may be some other problems) is driving kids
> away
> > from South Lakes.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents worth.
>
>
> I don't think it's the lack of AP that drives kids
> away. It's SLHS that drives kids away. Even if
> they have AP, no one with a right mind will send
> their kids their unless they have no choice. I
> have been watching this RD and found it very
> entertaining. Interesting enough, the more SLHS
> presents itself, the less symphathy it gets from
> people. Now, SLHS PTA is portraited as some dirty
> bunch who corrupted Gibson to get what they want.
>
> This circus is good. Keep rolling!


Also the McNair community cold come up with lawsuits for casting them out as outcasts (poor students when there are very well bright students out there) to any high school..again this is UNBELIEVABLE!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HerndonHSDad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:58AM

Baffled Wrote:

> Didn't some of the speakers from the Herndon
> community say they would take in more kids, but
> would not let any more kids away from them? I
> agree this is stupid and totally messed up. The
> RD should be let go for now and let parents pupil
> place their kids to SL for the IB program or
> through their open enrollment for the Gen Ed. I
> mean it is very difficult with redistricting any
> communities from AP based high schools to an IB
> high school. There would be apt to be alot of
> p'ssed off parents and now it's been happening.


Yes, we want more kids. But good kids. Who does SLHS think they are? How could they pick the good kids and we get the Title I kids that they openly rejected. It's an insult to Herndon HS. We don't discriminate Title I kids. I am very upset on the way this being handled. Go read the county public hearing record. There are multiple references on SLHS parents' comments, "We dont' want Title I MaNair kids". How could they throw something they don't want into our plate? A selfish bunch. They deserve to be disliked by the public. I heard some parents from the affected communities saying something like, "I will not send my kids to SLHS, not over my dead body". Now I understand why. I am with them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:59AM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CircusWatcher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Manoj Bal Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > South Lakes pyramid parent,
> > >
> > > Classic case of we don't care what the rest
> of
> > the
> > > community thinks but we want those warm
> bodies
> > > anyway and next time the board should just do
> > it
> > > without asking anyone.
> > >
> > > Have you thought about the scenario where
> each
> > and
> > > every kid placed in South Lakes can opt out
> to
> > be
> > > pupil placed in a AP school. Where will your
> > > bodies come from then?
> > >
> > > Can we all step back and really focus on the
> > issue
> > > at hand here? I think the lack of AP (and
> > there
> > > may be some other problems) is driving kids
> > away
> > > from South Lakes.
> > >
> > > Just my 2 cents worth.
> >
> >
> > I don't think it's the lack of AP that drives
> kids
> > away. It's SLHS that drives kids away. Even if
> > they have AP, no one with a right mind will
> send
> > their kids their unless they have no choice. I
> > have been watching this RD and found it very
> > entertaining. Interesting enough, the more SLHS
> > presents itself, the less symphathy it gets
> from
> > people. Now, SLHS PTA is portraited as some
> dirty
> > bunch who corrupted Gibson to get what they
> want.
> >
> > This circus is good. Keep rolling!
>
>
> Also the McNair community cold come up with
> lawsuits for casting them out as outcasts (poor
> students when there are very well bright students
> out there) to any high school..again this is
> UNBELIEVABLE!!


"Could" not "cold" sorry

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Justanotherdad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:59AM

Have any of you people ever set foot in SLHS?

Have you you Herndon folks folks even looked at your test scores? Do you all think your school is so much better?

Have you even considered the net benefit you have all received from the North Reston community kids that are now at your school, that perhaps should be at South Lakes?

Easy for you all to pass judgement, but pout yourself in the other's shoes first?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:00AM

It's a shame SLHS doesn't want to address or even admit the issues there, but rely on warm bodies to window dressing their school.

I wonder if they are brain washed by someone, and suddenly stick to this RD idea and think only if they have the greener grass of the neighbors, all their issues will be gone.

If there's something that specifically helps the 'disadvantaged' portion in SLHS,the public will have more sentiment towards SLHS. Rather, SLHS wants to give anyone with a different view a label. and portrait themselves as a victm.

What's the gain of forcing communities into a school they don't want to go? Is there numbers show that busing outside children into a school will help the current students? Is SLHS relying on outsiders to solve their issue? Didn't supreme court rule against reverse busing?



South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I find this very ironic.
> > > First you all complain that they don't listen
> > to
> > > you.
> > >
> > > Now that they are proposing new options to
> > factor
> > > in your input, you complain that they are
> > > schizophrenic.
> > >
> > > Which do you prefer, then?
> > >
> > > I think they are bending over backwards to
> try
> > and
> > > please everyone. An impossible task. This
> is
> > > probably why other counties don't even have
> > public
> > > input.
> >
> >
> > Uhh, where is there the slightest evidence that
> > they have considered any input from the Madison
> > Island and Floris?
>
> Both new options don't move Navy, addressing their
> concerns. Floris has said they don't want to be
> split. At least one of the options keeps Floris
> together, going to SL. This creates a split
> feeder at Fox Mill. The other option keeps Fox
> Mill together.
>
> Again, since there is no option that will make
> everyone happy, the SB is trying to find an option
> that will work for most people. Again, they don't
> really even have to have public input, and maybe
> they shouldn't next time. I think the SB is ill
> advised to try and make everyone happy, that was
> the downfall of the South County debacle, and now
> this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:00AM

SLPP writes:

"I think the SB is ill advised to try and make everyone happy"

OK then. Let's have the SLPTSA parents and Stu and Kathy be unhappy, that should help lots of other people feel happy.

Better?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: maybe new hawk ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:03AM

HerndonHSDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madcow desease? Yes, that must be what Gibson and
> Smith are getting now. Hello, are you kidding me?
> SLHS PTA does not want McNair because they are
> incompetent Title I school, bottom of the bottom
> in the county. And now, they want to push those
> same Title I students to our Herndon HS? This is
> extremely selfish. Madcow Gibson want to put good
> students into SLHS to pump up their testing score
> of SLHS, the worst performing HS in the county. I
> don't give a damn about that and I don't care. But
> now, they are pushing Title I students into
> Herndon HS to drag down our scores. What is this?
> Does the school board want to start a War among
> all communities in West county? We can all see
> that, the origin of the War is SLHS. No wonder by
> now, the only people who have any good things to
> say about SLHS are those same people from SLHS. By
> the way, did you all see that, out of so many
> parents from SLHS, Achievement is the only one who
> is capable to write on this board. That tells you
> something about SLHS even though they try to
> portrait them as someone special.
> Watching the work session, I found it really
> entertained that, all students who are pushed into
> SLHS will eventually pupil placed back to their
> own HSs. The only students who would not pupil
> placed will be no good anyway. I was laughing hard
> while watching those bunch of SB members sitting
> there for silent after realizing that they are
> doing the dumbing thing in the world.
> One thing for sure, whoever linked to SLHS will
> get really dumb. I am sure if the SB works on
> other HS, they will not be this dumb. Now, bottom
> line is, SLHS has no right to push all the Title I
> McNair kids to us if they don't want them. This is
> sick!

Funniest line in your post:

"By the way, did you all see that, out of so many
parents from SLHS, Achievement is the only one who
is capable to write on this board."

If your going to criticize anyones writing ability perhaps you should edit and at least spell check your posts first.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:04AM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP writes:
>
> "I think the SB is ill advised to try and make
> everyone happy"
>
> OK then. Let's have the SLPTSA parents and Stu
> and Kathy be unhappy, that should help lots of
> other people feel happy.
>
> Better?

Hmm. Sounds like a good idea !!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:06AM

BTW, people here are missing the point on Ms. Achievement...she's from Herndon.
She's championing the RD process because she knows it leaves the Astronaut schools at Herndon, and my money says she lives there. Its fine for her to have others moved to SLHS just as long as she can stay at Herndon. That's what the little boundary study coffee group focused on..how can we target other people so we don't have to change schools?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:07AM

Not really, they already claim "democracy is not majority rules" and I heard a SLHS student told the school board after the election, it's not democracy.

So it's the bullies rule.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP writes:
>
> "I think the SB is ill advised to try and make
> everyone happy"
>
> OK then. Let's have the SLPTSA parents and Stu
> and Kathy be unhappy, that should help lots of
> other people feel happy.
>
> Better?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HerndonHSDad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:09AM

maybe new hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HerndonHSDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Madcow desease? Yes, that must be what Gibson
> and
> > Smith are getting now. Hello, are you kidding
> me?
> > SLHS PTA does not want McNair because they are
> > incompetent Title I school, bottom of the
> bottom
> > in the county. And now, they want to push those
> > same Title I students to our Herndon HS? This
> is
> > extremely selfish. Madcow Gibson want to put
> good
> > students into SLHS to pump up their testing
> score
> > of SLHS, the worst performing HS in the county.
> I
> > don't give a damn about that and I don't care.
> But
> > now, they are pushing Title I students into
> > Herndon HS to drag down our scores. What is
> this?
> > Does the school board want to start a War among
> > all communities in West county? We can all see
> > that, the origin of the War is SLHS. No wonder
> by
> > now, the only people who have any good things
> to
> > say about SLHS are those same people from SLHS.
> By
> > the way, did you all see that, out of so many
> > parents from SLHS, Achievement is the only one
> who
> > is capable to write on this board. That tells
> you
> > something about SLHS even though they try to
> > portrait them as someone special.
> > Watching the work session, I found it really
> > entertained that, all students who are pushed
> into
> > SLHS will eventually pupil placed back to their
> > own HSs. The only students who would not pupil
> > placed will be no good anyway. I was laughing
> hard
> > while watching those bunch of SB members
> sitting
> > there for silent after realizing that they are
> > doing the dumbing thing in the world.
> > One thing for sure, whoever linked to SLHS will
> > get really dumb. I am sure if the SB works on
> > other HS, they will not be this dumb. Now,
> bottom
> > line is, SLHS has no right to push all the Title
> I
> > McNair kids to us if they don't want them. This
> is
> > sick!
>
> Funniest line in your post:
>
> "By the way, did you all see that, out of so many
> parents from SLHS, Achievement is the only one
> who
> is capable to write on this board."
>
> If your going to criticize anyones writing ability
> perhaps you should edit and at least spell check
> your posts first.


Now, you must be from SLHS. By the way, I live in the Reston part and is supposed to belong to SLHS but for reason unknown, being zoned to Herndon HS. Myself was a SLHS dropout, that could explain why my writing is so bad. Thanks for pointing that out. Are you from SLHS, buddy?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:10AM

I read the part about the desires of the majority not being that important to a democracy. It left me a bit confused, but I assumed the writer must be somehow advocating removing Stu Gibson from office, and that made me smile.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Parent of Snot Nosed Brats ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:24AM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP writes:
>
> "I think the SB is ill advised to try and make
> everyone happy"
>
> OK then. Let's have the SLPTSA parents and Stu
> and Kathy be unhappy, that should help lots of
> other people feel happy.
>
> Better?

I don't think Hone, Raney, Bradsher, and Center were making Stu and Kathy very happy yesterday. They weren't buying what S&K were smoking

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:24AM

I can say with complete confidence that wherever McNair winds up - Herndon, South Lakes, or remaining with Westfield HS - we will improve the school, not detract.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:28AM

It is very clear that other than SLHS, no one really wants the RD. Is it fair to mess up so many families, to "perhaps" help a portion of one school, and for some political reason?

Why SLHS doesn't want to consider volunteer based pupil placement? Don't we have Ms. Castro bragging some 500 signitures willing to join SLHS? Why are their voices not considered? Is that because some Hillary Clinton is on the signiture list?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:28AM

HerndonHSDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, we want more kids. But good kids. Who does
> SLHS think they are? How could they pick the good
> kids and we get the Title I kids that they openly
> rejected. It's an insult to Herndon HS. We don't
> discriminate Title I kids. I am very upset on the
> way this being handled. Go read the county public
> hearing record. There are multiple references on
> SLHS parents' comments, "We dont' want Title I
> MaNair kids". How could they throw something they
> don't want into our plate? A selfish bunch. They
> deserve to be disliked by the public. I heard some
> parents from the affected communities saying
> something like, "I will not send my kids to SLHS,
> not over my dead body". Now I understand why. I am
> with them.

Nobody from HHS has any right to call anyone from Reston selfish. We're in this mess because the HHS PTA insisted on keeping the Reston kids at Aldrin and Armstrong at HHS.

Perpetuating the partition of another town to benefit your town is the epitome of selfishness.

Reston's kids at Reston's high school South Lakes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:33AM

More school staff humor.

One of the questions from the board to staff was whether any consideration had been given to changing South Lakes from IB to AP.

Staff replied, apparently in all seriousness, that there had been no input from the South Lakes community that they would like to have that change made.

Apparently they haven't been watching the community input sessions, or didn't notice the students already placing out of South Lakes to take AP classes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:34AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HerndonHSDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Yes, we want more kids. But good kids. Who does
> > SLHS think they are? How could they pick the
> good
> > kids and we get the Title I kids that they
> openly
> > rejected. It's an insult to Herndon HS. We
> don't
> > discriminate Title I kids. I am very upset on
> the
> > way this being handled. Go read the county
> public
> > hearing record. There are multiple references
> on
> > SLHS parents' comments, "We dont' want Title I
> > MaNair kids". How could they throw something
> they
> > don't want into our plate? A selfish bunch.
> They
> > deserve to be disliked by the public. I heard
> some
> > parents from the affected communities saying
> > something like, "I will not send my kids to
> SLHS,
> > not over my dead body". Now I understand why. I
> am
> > with them.
>
> Nobody from HHS has any right to call anyone from
> Reston selfish. We're in this mess because the
> HHS PTA insisted on keeping the Reston kids at
> Aldrin and Armstrong at HHS.
>
> Perpetuating the partition of another town to
> benefit your town is the epitome of selfishness.
>
> Reston's kids at Reston's high school South Lakes.



There lies the crux of this problem.

North Reston does not want to go to South Lakes. Herndon has some kids that belong to South Lakes. So what does South Lakes do? Go shopping for some warm bodies south in fox mill and southwest in Floris.

Insanity.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:38AM

The only way for the School Board to remain within scope, and satfisfy their criteria is to use Option #7 (modified Option #1):

1. Move Floris and McNair to South Lakes HS. This solves SL's enrollment issue and greatly reduces Westfield's enrollment.

2. Move Oak Hill from Chantilly to Westfield. This significantly reduces Chantilly's enrollment and partially backfills Westfield. Westfield still remains significantly reduced.

3. Move Madison island to South Lakes. This eliminates an island.

4. Herndon remains untouched. There is no identified enrollment issue there.

5. Oakton remains untouched. There is no identified enrollment issue there.

I am not advocating the above plan, but am trying to imagine how it could be done within the current constraints.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FoxMiller ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:39AM

Thomas More Wrote:

>
> Nobody from HHS has any right to call anyone from
> Reston selfish. We're in this mess because the
> HHS PTA insisted on keeping the Reston kids at
> Aldrin and Armstrong at HHS.
>
> Perpetuating the partition of another town to
> benefit your town is the epitome of selfishness.
>
> Reston's kids at Reston's high school South Lakes.

Sounds a good solution. All Reston kids move back to South Lakes and everyone will be in peace. The madness must stop before the whole west county communities are destroyed. Option 5 was rediculous and not making any sense. Now, Option 11B and option 12 are just insane.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: maybe new hawk ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:39AM

HerndonHSDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Now, you must be from SLHS. By the way, I live in
> the Reston part and is supposed to belong to SLHS
> but for reason unknown, being zoned to Herndon HS.
> Myself was a SLHS dropout, that could explain why
> my writing is so bad. Thanks for pointing that
> out. Are you from SLHS, buddy?

I'm not from SL and I'm not your buddy and I'm certainly not endorsing the RD process. As my user name would indicate I'm in one of the potentially redistricted communities. So you couldn't cut it at SL yourself or even bother to learn to write but you don't have a problem saying the school is inadequate and it's supporters, and presumably students, can't write well?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ,,,, ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:41AM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only way for the School Board to remain within
> scope, and satfisfy their criteria is to use
> Option #7 (modified Option #1):
>
> 1. Move Floris and McNair to South Lakes HS. This
> solves SL's enrollment issue and greatly reduces
> Westfield's enrollment.
>
> 2. Move Oak Hill from Chantilly to Westfield. This
> significantly reduces Chantilly's enrollment and
> partially backfills Westfield. Westfield still
> remains significantly reduced.
>
> 3. Move Madison island to South Lakes. This
> eliminates an island.
>
> 4. Herndon remains untouched. There is no
> identified enrollment issue there.
>
> 5. Oakton remains untouched. There is no
> identified enrollment issue there.
>
> I am not advocating the above plan, but am trying
> to imagine how it could be done within the current
> constraints.


Why don't you move yourself into SLHS, if you like SLHS so much? Simple solution is, to stop this whole thing. It does not make any sense at the beginning.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Get it right ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:43AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get it right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > Elizabeth, why be anonymous? As President of
> > > SLPTA, surely you want everyone to know who
> you
> > > are. Aren't you the one who said it was
> > 'creepy'
> > > to post anonymously? Or was that Maria?
> >
> >
> > Elizabeth has NEVER posted here and Maria has
> > posted with her true name. Achievement is not
> > either of them.
>
> Hahahaha........Even YOU cannot believe that! Of
> course they've posted here, under various nics.


Sorry Neen - wrong again. I know you're so cynical and you think they are here trying to convince you of anything - you are sadly mistaken. As we all know this is a time-waster!

I know that Elizabeth has never posted here and Maria has posted under her name. Most of the SL posters are really one or two people....

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:44AM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only way for the School Board to remain within
> scope, and satfisfy their criteria is to use
> Option #7 (modified Option #1):
>
> 1. Move Floris and McNair to South Lakes HS. This
> solves SL's enrollment issue and greatly reduces
> Westfield's enrollment.
>
> 2. Move Oak Hill from Chantilly to Westfield. This
> significantly reduces Chantilly's enrollment and
> partially backfills Westfield. Westfield still
> remains significantly reduced.
>
> 3. Move Madison island to South Lakes. This
> eliminates an island.
>
> 4. Herndon remains untouched. There is no
> identified enrollment issue there.
>
> 5. Oakton remains untouched. There is no
> identified enrollment issue there.
>
> I am not advocating the above plan, but am trying
> to imagine how it could be done within the current
> constraints.

Nice try,

You must be from Herndon or Fox Mill area. Has it occured to you that you are going about 5-6 miles to the west of South Lakes to get your kids leaving all the areas within 5 miles untouched (ie Fox Mill, Herndon). I am sick and tired of Floris being kicked around like a soccer ball. We truly have no representation for Floris at SB. I assure you we will use all means at our disposal to avoid going to south lakes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:49AM

SLHS is not a bad school. They do have issues with previous oversight and a bad reputation.Their test scores are a bit lower but there are worse in the county. If the students who placed out came back, I think many would be shocked how close their scores would be to Herndon and Westfield etc.

Whatever comes of this situation, we can all help the SLHS reputation by ending the smearing of it's name. Find positive things to say about it. Can't a new reputation be developed as quickly as their previous reputation became tarnished?

Maybe this will help stem the tide of Reston kids placing out of South Lakes thus bringing their enrollment back up. Doesn't this help us, the families who have kids at other schools and want to stay there?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:50AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HerndonHSDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Yes, we want more kids. But good kids. Who does
> > SLHS think they are? How could they pick the
> good
> > kids and we get the Title I kids that they
> openly
> > rejected. It's an insult to Herndon HS. We
> don't
> > discriminate Title I kids. I am very upset on
> the
> > way this being handled. Go read the county
> public
> > hearing record. There are multiple references
> on
> > SLHS parents' comments, "We dont' want Title I
> > MaNair kids". How could they throw something
> they
> > don't want into our plate? A selfish bunch.
> They
> > deserve to be disliked by the public. I heard
> some
> > parents from the affected communities saying
> > something like, "I will not send my kids to
> SLHS,
> > not over my dead body". Now I understand why. I
> am
> > with them.
>
> Nobody from HHS has any right to call anyone from
> Reston selfish. We're in this mess because the
> HHS PTA insisted on keeping the Reston kids at
> Aldrin and Armstrong at HHS.
>
> Perpetuating the partition of another town to
> benefit your town is the epitome of selfishness.
>
> Reston's kids at Reston's high school South Lakes.

Herndon HS PTA Boundary Committee is largely composed of Reston Aldrin and Armstrong parents. They'd be happy with a new secondary school at Baron Cameron for themselves plus Forestville, portions of Great Falls/Colvin Run/Forest Edge. Skip Lake Anne and non Baron Cameron/Hunter Mill Forest Edge. Now they wouldn't want to overload the new school?

OMG-then you get a nice new secondary school just like Bradsher planned for Silverbrook, Newington Forest, and Halley.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Future SL Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:52AM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More school staff humor.
>
> One of the questions from the board to staff was
> whether any consideration had been given to
> changing South Lakes from IB to AP.
>
> Staff replied, apparently in all seriousness, that
> there had been no input from the South Lakes
> community that they would like to have that change
> made.
>
> Apparently they haven't been watching the
> community input sessions, or didn't notice the
> students already placing out of South Lakes to
> take AP classes.

The students placing out for AP and placing IB are close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor. What should be a factor is the will and desire of the community. Most of the SL community would rather have more students from Fox Mill, Floris, wherever, than care about one program over another.

Many people in the SL community are very interested in adding AP or transitioning to an AP school. IB was never approved by the community but was thrust upon the schools. The SL community including ALL future SL parents, current and potentially redistricted feeder school parents - should have input on what curriculum is offered. IB is an excellent rigorous college prep program - but if it serves only a small percentage of the population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from sending their kids to SL, how is that best serving the needs of the school community?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: , ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:54AM

HerndonHSDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
>
> > Didn't some of the speakers from the Herndon
> > community say they would take in more kids, but
> > would not let any more kids away from them? I
> > agree this is stupid and totally messed up.
> The
> > RD should be let go for now and let parents
> pupil
> > place their kids to SL for the IB program or
> > through their open enrollment for the Gen Ed.
> I
> > mean it is very difficult with redistricting
> any
> > communities from AP based high schools to an IB
> > high school. There would be apt to be alot of
> > p'ssed off parents and now it's been happening.
>
>
> Yes, we want more kids. But good kids. Who does
> SLHS think they are? How could they pick the good
> kids and we get the Title I kids that they openly
> rejected. It's an insult to Herndon HS. We don't
> discriminate Title I kids. I am very upset on the
> way this being handled. Go read the county public
> hearing record. There are multiple references on
> SLHS parents' comments, "We dont' want Title I
> MaNair kids". How could they throw something they
> don't want into our plate? A selfish bunch. They
> deserve to be disliked by the public. I heard some
> parents from the affected communities saying
> something like, "I will not send my kids to SLHS,
> not over my dead body". Now I understand why. I am
> with them.


It's funny you are so upset, when most of your Herndon peers loved South Lakes High School's rally against McNair and lovingly supported Option 5.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:55AM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More school staff humor.
>
> One of the questions from the board to staff was
> whether any consideration had been given to
> changing South Lakes from IB to AP.
>
> Staff replied, apparently in all seriousness, that
> there had been no input from the South Lakes
> community that they would like to have that change
> made.
>
> Apparently they haven't been watching the
> community input sessions, or didn't notice the
> students already placing out of South Lakes to
> take AP classes.

Right on, brother (sister, sibling?)

Lots of us at SL have been advocating for the restoration of AP and the phasing out of IB but the central FCPS staff doesn't want to acknowledge we exist.

The only SL parents advocating for the continuation of IB are the parents of the 8% of SL students who take IB HL classes and get a disproportionate share of SL teacher resources.

In the same answer, they assert that IB was a community decision. That assertion is a flat out lie. I had a kid at South Lakes at the time. There was no community input on that decision. It was imposed by the Area Superintendent.

Several excellent teachers left SL because of IB.

Have the latest proposals been posted anywhere on the FCPS website? I looked and couldn't find them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:56AM

, Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HerndonHSDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Baffled Wrote:
> >
> > > Didn't some of the speakers from the Herndon
> > > community say they would take in more kids,
> but
> > > would not let any more kids away from them?
> I
> > > agree this is stupid and totally messed up.
> > The
> > > RD should be let go for now and let parents
> > pupil
> > > place their kids to SL for the IB program or
> > > through their open enrollment for the Gen Ed.
>
> > I
> > > mean it is very difficult with redistricting
> > any
> > > communities from AP based high schools to an
> IB
> > > high school. There would be apt to be alot
> of
> > > p'ssed off parents and now it's been
> happening.
> >
> >
> > Yes, we want more kids. But good kids. Who does
> > SLHS think they are? How could they pick the
> good
> > kids and we get the Title I kids that they
> openly
> > rejected. It's an insult to Herndon HS. We
> don't
> > discriminate Title I kids. I am very upset on
> the
> > way this being handled. Go read the county
> public
> > hearing record. There are multiple references
> on
> > SLHS parents' comments, "We dont' want Title I
> > MaNair kids". How could they throw something
> they
> > don't want into our plate? A selfish bunch.
> They
> > deserve to be disliked by the public. I heard
> some
> > parents from the affected communities saying
> > something like, "I will not send my kids to
> SLHS,
> > not over my dead body". Now I understand why. I
> am
> > with them.
>
>
> It's funny you are so upset, when most of your
> Herndon peers loved South Lakes High School's
> rally against McNair and lovingly supported Option
> 5.


I agree !! Last Saturday at the public hearing this lady from Herndon went on and on about how option 5 was great and we need to implement it. As long as you leave Herndon kids alone we will support option 5.

Throw someone else under the bus to save your skin.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:57AM

Having reviewed the numbers this morning, it does appear that the FRM numbers at Herndon will rise only by 1%. Herndon does a very good job of working with its current population of disadvantaged kids, so I know these kids would be well cared for. However, I also know there is quite a bit of disagreement in the Herndon community over this - any increase in this strata puts a strain on resources.

If I were living in McNair and were poor enough to qualify for Title I support, I would want to stay at Westfield. The percentage of FRM kids there will drop by two percent, I believe, since McNair is a major contributor to the "balance" in that school. Unfortunately, the very people affected by this will have absolutely no voice in the matter. It will take the Herndon community to rally behind them. You won't see them at the next hearing, unless they are prompted and supported in getting there.

The more pressing matter regarding demographics is South Lakes, where a 33% (updated) FRM population would drop to 24% with the addition of new communities that don't suffer from this kind of disadvantage. That is a very significant change that can be accomplished while meeting the other criteria set forth by the board and its staff. And it helps the current population of economically disadvantaged children there.

Apart from creating a balance, I do not think many of the people posting here really understand why it is so important to raise the general ed numbers to a minimum of 1,700 at South Lakes and other schools. The scheduling conflicts and lack of course choices is really a major problem at all smaller schools, not just South Lakes. It's a very severe problem that nobody else in this boundary study faces. People can pontificate about it all they want, but to those who do not go to schools with a gen ed population of around 1,100 (South Lakes), it is pure opinion and conjecture. They would be as adamant about gaining students at their own schools if they faced the same situation.

In addition, no matter how much people say that programming is "the reason" South Lakes is underenrolled, there is absolutely no factual or any other data to support that. The school board knows this. That the community keeps having to defend the numbers that make it clear other factors are at work puts it at a vulnerable disadvantage in perception. Any organization that has to defend itself against falsehoods is going to be perceived as inferior because that's the way human emotion works. On top of the fact that so many people are so ready to think the worst of South Lakes, this just adds fuel to their already-established pre-conceived notions.

For example, Chantilly and Westfield supporters have had to defend against the idea that they are severely overenrolled. Each time they defend their position, the idea that they are, in fact, severely overenrolled gets reinforced. Surely they can understand, being in that position, what South Lakes faces when it defends itself regarding its scheduling, courseload, and underenrollment situation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:04AM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having reviewed the numbers this morning, it does
> appear that the FRM numbers at Herndon will rise
> only by 1%. Herndon does a very good job of
> working with its current population of
> disadvantaged kids, so I know these kids would be
> well cared for. However, I also know there is
> quite a bit of disagreement in the Herndon
> community over this - any increase in this strata
> puts a strain on resources.
>
> If I were living in McNair and were poor enough to
> qualify for Title I support, I would want to stay
> at Westfield. The percentage of FRM kids there
> will drop by two percent, I believe, since McNair
> is a major contributor to the "balance" in that
> school. Unfortunately, the very people affected by
> this will have absolutely no voice in the matter.
> It will take the Herndon community to rally behind
> them. You won't see them at the next hearing,
> unless they are prompted and supported in getting
> there.
>
> The more pressing matter regarding demographics is
> South Lakes, where a 33% (updated) FRM population
> would drop to 24% with the addition of new
> communities that don't suffer from this kind of
> disadvantage. That is a very significant change
> that can be accomplished while meeting the other
> criteria set forth by the board and its staff. And
> it helps the current population of economically
> disadvantaged children there.
>
> Apart from creating a balance, I do not think many
> of the people posting here really understand why
> it is so important to raise the general ed numbers
> to a minimum of 1,700 at South Lakes and other
> schools. The scheduling conflicts and lack of
> course choices is really a major problem at all
> smaller schools, not just South Lakes. It's a very
> severe problem that nobody else in this boundary
> study faces. People can pontificate about it all
> they want, but to those who do not go to schools
> with a gen ed population of around 1,100 (South
> Lakes), it is pure opinion and conjecture. They
> would be as adamant about gaining students at
> their own schools if they faced the same
> situation.
>
> In addition, no matter how much people say that
> programming is "the reason" South Lakes is
> underenrolled, there is absolutely no factual or
> any other data to support that. The school board
> knows this. That the community keeps having to
> defend the numbers that make it clear other
> factors are at work puts it at a vulnerable
> disadvantage in perception. Any organization that
> has to defend itself against falsehoods is going
> to be perceived as inferior because that's the way
> human emotion works. On top of the fact that so
> many people are so ready to think the worst of
> South Lakes, this just adds fuel to their
> already-established pre-conceived notions.
>
> For example, Chantilly and Westfield supporters
> have had to defend against the idea that they are
> severely overenrolled. Each time they defend their
> position, the idea that they are, in fact,
> severely overenrolled gets reinforced. Surely they
> can understand, being in that position, what South
> Lakes faces when it defends itself regarding its
> scheduling, courseload, and underenrollment
> situation.


Achievment,

I ask you this question without any bias? Answer in simple yes or no please.

Do you think removing IB and adding AP will solve this problem at South Lakes?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:07AM

,,,, Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't you move yourself into SLHS, if you like
> SLHS so much? Simple solution is, to stop this
> whole thing. It does not make any sense at the
> beginning.

You misunderstand. We are happy at Westfield HS and wish not to leave. I am just brainstorming ideas without any prejudices and personal preferences. It's kind of like if I were atop the new airport tower with a pair of binoculars, and looking down on all of this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:09AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You must be from Herndon or Fox Mill area.

Nope, we are from McNair.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:13AM

By the way, from the tenor of Achievement's posts, I think her views (making an assumption about gender, sorry if wrong) are sincere, albeit ones that reflect the common paradigms that prevail in education today.

And I do appreciate her concern for kids of lesser means - being poor in a reasonably well off community is not fun - I know - I was one as a kid myself.

But in the end, it is all about what works and what doesn't. And to this end, I think Achievement is also sincere in pointing to the fact that schools work better when disadvantaged students are distributed more evenly throughout the system. Now, I am not sure that it improves the lot of the disadvantaged students - studies likely point to conclusions in several directions (the reason I state this is that certain groups have become incredibly resistant to various strategies of educational intervention - meaning that the schools simply cannot fix what is going on at home). But note that spreading the disadvantaged students sure does make it easier on the rest of the students in the affected schools, and makes it more likely that "good students" will want to come to a school. As I have said before, caring parents don't like to send their kids to schools with bad students - and no amount of legislation or coercion will change that.

So this is the problem with South Lakes - surrounded as it is by fairly competitive schools - it is in a pickle - it needs more regular students only nominally to offer more classes - it really needs them so it can attract better students and not be on the precipice of a decline. Of course, the SLHS parents know this - and know it all too well. And in their view they have borne the brunt of putting up with an undue amount of "bad students" - and frankly bad administration - and with the swanky new 60 million in improvements view this as their one moment in time to capture a swag of good students and relieve themselves of the schools negative label. This is why the redistricting will take place, at least in terms of administrative fiat. In a sense I feel for them - but what they are missing is that even in a public school monopoly, one cannot escape from the competitive factor - and South Lakes, and in particular certain supporters who find, in their progressive worldview, notions of competition completely anathema, simply don't know how to go about competing.

And of course this does lie at the feet of the School Board. Try this one on for size - School Board members and supporters. SLHS has a staff ratio - no doubt due to its increased number of challenging students - that exceeds by far the neighboring schools. Rather than build a swanky new building - structures are always nice because they make leaders feel like they have accomplished something, promise that same level of staffing and extra attention, focus and challenge to the so-called regular students - you know - the students who ostensibly are headed for Radford/VCU, etc...and dare them to be great - with extra attention and focus - and AP courses or any other rigorous courses as necessary. Do this for three or four years running - be absolutely rock hard on discipline, insist on a strong fundamental no fad approach to education, and see what happens. Gut the bureuacratic ratios and rules - make it happen. Guarantee of success? No. There is no such thing. But a start. What gets me is that spending money on a facility is viewed as "safe", while spending money to enhance competitive and human capital - which of course requires and investment in people and management, is likely the last thing on the minds of those who run the ship. This all takes much more leadership, of course, than merely milking the taxpayers of more money to build a structure - and that is of course the problem. Wiser minds than I might say what I am proposing has rarely been done in the public schools. True - but this is a wealthy area - with plenty of resources and frankly a surplus of do-gooders that could be motivated to help. And bluntly, those willing to be honest know that embarking on a course of excellence is really the only reliable way to enhance a school's vibrancy and population. Food for thought, eh?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:15AM

Future SL Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > More school staff humor.
> >
> > One of the questions from the board to staff
> was
> > whether any consideration had been given to
> > changing South Lakes from IB to AP.
> >
> > Staff replied, apparently in all seriousness,
> that
> > there had been no input from the South Lakes
> > community that they would like to have that
> change
> > made.
> >
> > Apparently they haven't been watching the
> > community input sessions, or didn't notice the
> > students already placing out of South Lakes to
> > take AP classes.
>
> The students placing out for AP and placing IB are
> close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor.
> What should be a factor is the will and desire of
> the community. Most of the SL community would
> rather have more students from Fox Mill, Floris,
> wherever, than care about one program over
> another.
>
> Many people in the SL community are very
> interested in adding AP or transitioning to an AP
> school. IB was never approved by the community
> but was thrust upon the schools. The SL community
> including ALL future SL parents, current and
> potentially redistricted feeder school parents -
> should have input on what curriculum is offered.
> IB is an excellent rigorous college prep program -
> but if it serves only a small percentage of the
> population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from
> sending their kids to SL, how is that best serving
> the needs of the school community?

I do need to straighten something out. More than 45% of students at South Lakes participate in IB (exactly the way kids at Herndon participate in AP). (I think the number is higher.) People must not confuse the diploma program with the IB program. In addition, the IB program was not actually "thrust" upon any of the schools. That would have been impossible since it took so many people a lot of time not only to organize the IB programs here in Fairfax, but also to implement the "full AP" program at the same time. I believe Janie Strauss explained how all this happened at one of the work sessions, and the FCPS staff addressed this in the questions one of the board members presented.

In fact, it could also be argued that the full AP program was "thrust" upon all the AP schools as well. Many of the schools had very inconsistent AP offerings throughout the county. Herndon included. In the late 1990s, the school system decided it would offer the most rigorous available programming at all schools, AP or IB. School administrators at every school knew this was coming. It happens that South Lakes had a lousy administrator at the time whose communication skills were bad, but quite a few members of that community knew about the IB program when it was being considered. At Herndon, dozens of parents knew about the AP "full body press" coming along, and prepared for it. It cannot be helped, post facto, that South Lakes didn't have the vigorous parental involvement and relationship with the school staff then that it does now.

Regarding another question, removing IB at South Lakes will absolutely not solve any problems. In fact, given that this program is on the upswing because of Bruce Butler, it is likely to be a gemstone in the FCPS cap and is headed where Marshall is now. The issue there is and remains one of demographic balance and course scheduling. It's really pretty simple.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:16AM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I were living in McNair and were poor enough to
> qualify for Title I support, I would want to stay
> at Westfield. The percentage of FRM kids there
> will drop by two percent, I believe, since McNair
> is a major contributor to the "balance" in that
> school. Unfortunately, the very people affected by
> this will have absolutely no voice in the matter.
> It will take the Herndon community to rally behind
> them. You won't see them at the next hearing,
> unless they are prompted and supported in getting
> there.

Slow down, Achievement, you are making a lot of inaccurate presumptions here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:23AM

Quantum: I am all for jettisoning the student-teacher ratios! This might be compared with the Justice Department's sentencing guidelines that became de-facto de-minimis rules instead of guidelines. Let each school determine the necessary ratios and submit a budget for them, just like corporate departments do. Then it is up to the school board and staff to figure out how to make them happen. Who best to determine the needs of a school than its parents, staff, and administrators?

In fact, I would strongly advocate for splitting up the entire Fairfax County public school system into maybe three independent systems. It is not a good thing that it is the "13th largest school district in the country." Split it up and see whether direct school board representation could actually work then!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:25AM

Berdhuis: Please let me know how the McNair people who are poor or don't speak English can get their voices heard. If they are not speaking for themselves, who is representing them?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:26AM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Future SL Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oakton Parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > More school staff humor.
> > >
> > > One of the questions from the board to staff
> > was
> > > whether any consideration had been given to
> > > changing South Lakes from IB to AP.
> > >
> > > Staff replied, apparently in all seriousness,
> > that
> > > there had been no input from the South Lakes
> > > community that they would like to have that
> > change
> > > made.
> > >
> > > Apparently they haven't been watching the
> > > community input sessions, or didn't notice
> the
> > > students already placing out of South Lakes
> to
> > > take AP classes.
> >
> > The students placing out for AP and placing IB
> are
> > close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor.
> > What should be a factor is the will and desire
> of
> > the community. Most of the SL community would
> > rather have more students from Fox Mill,
> Floris,
> > wherever, than care about one program over
> > another.
> >
> > Many people in the SL community are very
> > interested in adding AP or transitioning to an
> AP
> > school. IB was never approved by the community
> > but was thrust upon the schools. The SL
> community
> > including ALL future SL parents, current and
> > potentially redistricted feeder school parents
> -
> > should have input on what curriculum is offered.
>
> > IB is an excellent rigorous college prep program
> -
> > but if it serves only a small percentage of the
> > population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from
> > sending their kids to SL, how is that best
> serving
> > the needs of the school community?
>
> I do need to straighten something out. More than
> 45% of students at South Lakes participate in IB
> (exactly the way kids at Herndon participate in
> AP). (I think the number is higher.) People must
> not confuse the diploma program with the IB
> program. In addition, the IB program was not
> actually "thrust" upon any of the schools. That
> would have been impossible since it took so many
> people a lot of time not only to organize the IB
> programs here in Fairfax, but also to implement
> the "full AP" program at the same time. I believe
> Janie Strauss explained how all this happened at
> one of the work sessions, and the FCPS staff
> addressed this in the questions one of the board
> members presented.
>
> In fact, it could also be argued that the full AP
> program was "thrust" upon all the AP schools as
> well. Many of the schools had very inconsistent AP
> offerings throughout the county. Herndon included.
> In the late 1990s, the school system decided it
> would offer the most rigorous available
> programming at all schools, AP or IB. School
> administrators at every school knew this was
> coming. It happens that South Lakes had a lousy
> administrator at the time whose communication
> skills were bad, but quite a few members of that
> community knew about the IB program when it was
> being considered. At Herndon, dozens of parents
> knew about the AP "full body press" coming along,
> and prepared for it. It cannot be helped, post
> facto, that South Lakes didn't have the vigorous
> parental involvement and relationship with the
> school staff then that it does now.
>
> Regarding another question, removing IB at South
> Lakes will absolutely not solve any problems. In
> fact, given that this program is on the upswing
> because of Bruce Butler, it is likely to be a
> gemstone in the FCPS cap and is headed where
> Marshall is now. The issue there is and remains
> one of demographic balance and course scheduling.
> It's really pretty simple.


Since you brought up the IB percentages,

Yes more than 45% may be taking IB courses, but how many do actually get the Diploma , less than 10% and how many get certificates. Certificates are useless for college admissions and credits in college courses. So if your kid is not in top 10% bye bye college credits. This is our issue!! Let kids decide what is best for them. Some are talented and hard working and for them IB diploma will be a breeze. For others not so gifted let them concentrate on things they like (by taking selective courses which South Lakes will not offer and please don't come back with the line saying South Lakes will start offering couple of AP courses next year. We all know AP and IB can not coexist.)

Achievement you seem to be a sensible person. Won't you agree that we should leave this choice to the kids and their parents.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:35AM

Manoj: I cannot get involved in an AP/IB discussion because there has been far too much misinformation about IB that is coloring people's opinions. It would be a fruitless endeavor to try to straighten all that out here, at least for me. (My concern is more with student achievement and opportunities for achievement.) I agree with someone who wrote awhile back that perhaps it should be given a chance with the new administration and with accurate information. I believe some other posters have all the factual information about IB (Verity?) and can address it. In addition, many questions can be answered by looking at the school staff responses to IB board members' questions posted on the work session site.

An example of the misinformation is precisely what you mentioned: confusing the diploma with the rest of it. It is a mantra from some anti-RD people that has taken a nefarious hold that only a tiny percentage benefit. That's like saying only the tiny percentage of kids who take 8 AP courses and qualify for the scholar award benefit from AP. Silly.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:36AM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis: Please let me know how the McNair people
> who are poor or don't speak English can get their
> voices heard. If they are not speaking for
> themselves, who is representing them?

Achievement,

We are already doing a pretty good job of representing ourselves. The poor have had a voice on this forum and at the meetings for a long time, and so have those who do not speak English well. By the way, I think many draw the conclusion that being poor and non-English speaking are mutually inclusive. Well, they are not in McNair.

I pose to you, how are the poor and non-English speakers at South Lakes being represented?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:38AM

What if South Lakes continues to offer the IB Programme, and becomes the IB Academy for Western Fairfax County. There would be open enrollment for any Student who chooses to persue the IB Diploma. This would certainly add additional students into South Lakes. It would be incumbent upon the FCPS system to actively promote the benifits of IB, as I think they have done a very poor job of promoting IB to date. Many of us have only really learned anything about IB through this RD study.

The FCSB could then offer the Rest of the students in South Lakes the AP curriculum, as this seems to be a major reason for resistance among Floris and Fox Mill parents and students. By offering this structure of the IB Academy and the more Main Stream AP curriculum, I think that you will attract many more students. I believe that South Lakes will suddenly find many students and parents who whould simply choose to enroll in South Lakes, because of the opportunity to select the best curriculum for their children.

I think that FCPS should also conduct a survey of all families and students who are currently enrolled in South Lakes, and get a "true" opinion as to whether the Students prefer IB or AP. There seems to be conflicting information on what the majority prefers.

After seeing how Stu and Kathy are scrambling to come up with additional options on who to move, it is clear that the have been boxed into corners, and do not yet have a plan that makes sense.

I believe that if we could pause this RD until next fall, the SB can really take a broader look at all of the feedback that has been generated,and see what enrollments do for the balance of this year. They can save face by saying that it will make sense to align the schools at the same time that the Alignment for Coppermine ES is done.

By pausing for a year, and doing the move next fall, a couple of things will occur.

#1 I believe that everyone in the Western part of the County is now aware that changes need to be made, so, next fall, the excuse of "I didn't know they would change my school when I bought my house" would not be valid.

#2 This gives everyone in the area an opportunity to move if the are not wanting to change schools.

#3 Pausing until next fall will give SL and the SB an opportunity to really determine if IB or AP is the preference of the majority at SL.

#4 Pausing until next fall will give many parents and students who are "on the fence", to really explore the benifits of South Lakes.

There are many other benifits of pausing RD until next fall.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:42AM

Achievement, who says she is from Herndon, ignores the note about being from an Astronaut school and enjoying not going to SLHS and then opines:

"Regarding another question, removing IB at South Lakes will absolutely not solve any problems. In fact, given that this program is on the upswing because of Bruce Butler, it is likely to be a gemstone in the FCPS cap and is headed where Marshall is now. The issue there is and remains one of demographic balance and course scheduling. It's really pretty simple."

Gemstone in the cap? Heading where Marshall is now? WTF are you talking about? Name the top schools in FCPS. TJ? Special case, admittedly. Langley? Hard to argue with. The list gets less clear, but prolly Oakton, McLean, Madison, Lake Braddock, then maybe Marshall and West Springfield.

Putting AP in South Lakes would help eliminate a few hundred pupil placements out of South Lakes. Wouldn't that consitute "solving a problem"?

South Lakes' demographic balance is fine already, unless you feel you need more rich white kids for some reason, and its course schedule would be fine if they swapped out IP for AP. Oh, right, that would solve another problem.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 10:43AM

Future SL Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > More school staff humor.
> >
> > One of the questions from the board to staff
> was
> > whether any consideration had been given to
> > changing South Lakes from IB to AP.
> >
> > Staff replied, apparently in all seriousness,
> that
> > there had been no input from the South Lakes
> > community that they would like to have that
> change
> > made.
> >
> > Apparently they haven't been watching the
> > community input sessions, or didn't notice the
> > students already placing out of South Lakes to
> > take AP classes.
>
> The students placing out for AP and placing IB are
> close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor.
> What should be a factor is the will and desire of
> the community. Most of the SL community would
> rather have more students from Fox Mill, Floris,
> wherever, than care about one program over
> another.
>
> Many people in the SL community are very
> interested in adding AP or transitioning to an AP
> school. IB was never approved by the community
> but was thrust upon the schools. The SL community
> including ALL future SL parents, current and
> potentially redistricted feeder school parents -
> should have input on what curriculum is offered.
> IB is an excellent rigorous college prep program -
> but if it serves only a small percentage of the
> population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from
> sending their kids to SL, how is that best serving
> the needs of the school community?


SL Parent,
The school board is not hearing from you, so doesn't think there is any interest in AP at SL. If you have this opinion, email the school board.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:43AM

Achievement

Thank you for your prompt response. This is a burning issue for my son. He is very goal oriented. Math and Science are his strong points and he hates languages.

I am not accusing you of running away from AP/IB discussion but if the net result after going through 4 years of HS is a IB diploma certificate (Which is worth nothing) then my son will be totally dejected. We have set our eyes on pupil placement if you snatch us away from Westfields.

No hard feelings but we do not want IB.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:49AM

Manoj: Please take some time to become familiar with IB. Here is at least one source:

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

Go to the 2/11/08 work session, open facilities, open the 61.02, go to the AP/IB factbook. This doesn't contain much info on AP, which I assume you know about, but it does have a lot of information about IB, most of it understandable. (IB info tends to be wordy.) Hope this helps.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:51AM

Well, I have to go do some Achieving. Will look in later.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: preferAP ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:56AM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I have to go do some Achieving. Will look in
> later.


Manoj

It is obvious that Achievement is clueless about your angle in this problem. She is headed to the doors now !! Chill out.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHSParent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:56AM

Enough is enough. I am one of those proud SLHS parents. I love our high school. This RD debate brings a lot of negative bias to SLHS. We don't want that. For those Fox Mill and Floris kids, if you don't want to join us, keep your asses at where they belong. But don't trash SLHS. I am sick and tired of it. You want to pick a fight with me? let's do it face to face.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:01AM

hmm, strange both SLHSParent and Achievement left around the same time. Wonder what it could be? May be a private meeting with one of the SB member.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHSParent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:06AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmm, strange both SLHSParent and Achievement left
> around the same time. Wonder what it could be?
> May be a private meeting with one of the SB
> member.


I am here. Don't ever send your Fox Mill and Floris kids over here. We are fed up with you guys. They are not welcome at SLHS. Why should we be friendly with your Fox Mill and Floris kids if they dislike SLHS so much? Bunch of nerds.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Future SL Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:09AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Future SL Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > The students placing out for AP and placing IB
> are
> > close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor.
> > What should be a factor is the will and desire
> of
> > the community. Most of the SL community would
> > rather have more students from Fox Mill,
> Floris,
> > wherever, than care about one program over
> > another.
> >
> > Many people in the SL community are very
> > interested in adding AP or transitioning to an
> AP
> > school. IB was never approved by the community
> > but was thrust upon the schools. The SL
> community
> > including ALL future SL parents, current and
> > potentially redistricted feeder school parents
> -
> > should have input on what curriculum is offered.
>
> > IB is an excellent rigorous college prep program
> -
> > but if it serves only a small percentage of the
> > population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from
> > sending their kids to SL, how is that best
> serving
> > the needs of the school community?
>
>
> SL Parent,
> The school board is not hearing from you, so
> doesn't think there is any interest in AP at SL.
> If you have this opinion, email the school board.


I have emailed some of them - what is your feeling on the issue?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:10AM

What was all of that craziness? You see they know this is not going their way.

Here is my prediction SLHS Parent. Dont worry they are not coming. No one is at least not by force. You all have overplayed your hand.

Thank your buddy Stu for that. What were you thinking counting on that crazy guy? He is really 'off the chain' as my kids say. Unbelievable.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: preferAP ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:10AM

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmm, strange both SLHSParent and Achievement
> left
> > around the same time. Wonder what it could be?
>
> > May be a private meeting with one of the SB
> > member.
>
>
> I am here. Don't ever send your Fox Mill and
> Floris kids over here. We are fed up with you
> guys. They are not welcome at SLHS. Why should we
> be friendly with your Fox Mill and Floris kids if
> they dislike SLHS so much? Bunch of nerds.


Precisely, thats what we have been saying all along. We don't want to go to SLHS. Please do us a favour and inform Stu about this too. He seems to be the one hell bent on sending Fox Mill and Floris there.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:12AM

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmm, strange both SLHSParent and Achievement
> left
> > around the same time. Wonder what it could be?
>
> > May be a private meeting with one of the SB
> > member.
>
>
> I am here. Don't ever send your Fox Mill and
> Floris kids over here. We are fed up with you
> guys. They are not welcome at SLHS. Why should we
> be friendly with your Fox Mill and Floris kids if
> they dislike SLHS so much? Bunch of nerds.


Please advocate to the SLHS PTSA that Fox Mill and Floris be removed from consideration. We have never felt welcome, only felt like pawns the whole time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:12AM

preferAP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHSParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Manoj Bal Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > hmm, strange both SLHSParent and Achievement
> > left
> > > around the same time. Wonder what it could
> be?
> >
> > > May be a private meeting with one of the SB
> > > member.
> >
> >
> > I am here. Don't ever send your Fox Mill and
> > Floris kids over here. We are fed up with you
> > guys. They are not welcome at SLHS. Why should
> we
> > be friendly with your Fox Mill and Floris kids
> if
> > they dislike SLHS so much? Bunch of nerds.
>
>
> Precisely, thats what we have been saying all
> along. We don't want to go to SLHS. Please do us
> a favour and inform Stu about this too. He seems
> to be the one hell bent on sending Fox Mill and
> Floris there.


And Kathy hell bent on sending Floris/McNair out of Westfields as well. Crazy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Option 5, 11b, or 12? ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:17AM

I'm in a group of potentially redistricted people and my only objection has been IB. I think rational people can understand the merits, but we also see some of the shortfalls of the program.

Would we really get input into curriculum issues at SL? What would convince the school board or facilities staff to realize that our lack of desire to move isn't about racial, class, or economic discrimination but rather about the lack of choice of AP? I don't really care which program is in place. I want my kids to be with their neighborhood friends, but if they pupil place elsewhere how does that help SL?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Get it right ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:19AM

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmm, strange both SLHSParent and Achievement
> left
> > around the same time. Wonder what it could be?
>
> > May be a private meeting with one of the SB
> > member.
>
>
> I am here. Don't ever send your Fox Mill and
> Floris kids over here. We are fed up with you
> guys. They are not welcome at SLHS. Why should we
> be friendly with your Fox Mill and Floris kids if
> they dislike SLHS so much? Bunch of nerds.


I call BS on you - troll

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: sayitanit'tso ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:26AM

It sounds like if SL just goes to AP without a boundary change they will attract people from their current boundary. I think it's that simple. Stu is hell bent on Fox Mill and Floris. With Fox Mill he knows he's hated so he has nothing to lose. Apparently, we at Fox Mill also provide the ideal numbers Stu wants. Bottom line, change SL and all will be fine. Commmon sense!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: CAPS has it wrong ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:32AM

sayitanit'tso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like if SL just goes to AP without a
> boundary change they will attract people from
> their current boundary. I think it's that simple.
> Stu is hell bent on Fox Mill and Floris. With
> Fox Mill he knows he's hated so he has nothing to
> lose. Apparently, we at Fox Mill also provide the
> ideal numbers Stu wants. Bottom line, change SL
> and all will be fine. Commmon sense!



Yeah - right. Regardless of what CAPS says, there aren't enough students in the current boundary to fill 700 seats. Some have pupil placed out, while some have placed in.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:33AM

Isn't it amazing that one guy Stu Gibson has caused so many people to waste so much time and energy on the RD process, don't even count our taxpayers $$. When is he up for reelection? I am ashamed of myself that I voted for him. I was totally ignorant and Stu did not take a position before the elections. It is obvious that all he cares for is South Lakes and South Lakes only.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: sayitan'tso ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:36AM

Do you have those numbers? It may take a few years. SL needs to give it time to turn around. A small school can be a good thing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Draft ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:37AM

Instead of redistricting -

Let's institute an annual draft of all incoming 9th graders into FCPS High Schools.

Each student will have his/her picture posted on a website, along with their parents' annual incomes and current value of their home. The school with the lowest average SAT scores (or other acceptable benchmark) from the previous year shall have the top pick in the draft.

This is the ONLY WAY, that we can achieve true and perfect socio-economic balance between the schools. Student performance will therefore be maximized under this plan which will be best for everyone involved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: sayitan'tso ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:38AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't it amazing that one guy Stu Gibson has
> caused so many people to waste so much time and
> energy on the RD process, don't even count our
> taxpayers $$. When is he up for reelection? I am
> ashamed of myself that I voted for him. I was
> totally ignorant and Stu did not take a position
> before the elections. It is obvious that all he
> cares for is South Lakes and South Lakes only.

Amen..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:39AM

Isn't SLHS or pro-RD folks the first ones distributing labels such as racist, without even check how diversified the Floris/Fox Mill communities are?

An RD will not work if it caused so much chaos in all parties involved. The best to do is to halt the entire craziness.

"> I am here. Don't ever send your Fox Mill and
> Floris kids over here. We are fed up with you
> guys. They are not welcome at SLHS. Why should we
> be friendly with your Fox Mill and Floris kids if
> they dislike SLHS so much? Bunch of nerds.
"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: sayitan'tso ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:42AM

Draft Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead of redistricting -
>
> Let's institute an annual draft of all incoming
> 9th graders into FCPS High Schools.
>
> Each student will have his/her picture posted on a
> website, along with their parents' annual incomes
> and current value of their home. The school with
> the lowest average SAT scores (or other acceptable
> benchmark) from the previous year shall have the
> top pick in the draft.
>
> This is the ONLY WAY, that we can achieve true and
> perfect socio-economic balance between the
> schools. Student performance will therefore be
> maximized under this plan which will be best for
> everyone involved.

That's a great idea. Just be careful if Dan Snyder becomes a principal, or whoever would draft. He may trade all of his picks for really rich kids from other schools and really throw off the whole balance, :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:45AM

I love the draft idea. Someone on one of the earlier pages suggested to an SL poster that maybe they should run this like Fantasy Football but with kids.

Wouldnt that be fun?

Johnny Smith
Causcasion
GPA 3.5
Household Income $300,000 thousands
Heritage- Norweigan-Irish- German
Hobbies- Skateboarding, surfing, ice fishing
Sports- Football and LAX

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