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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: noploma ()
Date: February 05, 2008 02:11PM

its probably about time for students to drop out of school with spring fever starting soon and such.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 05, 2008 03:05PM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a link to the South Lakes PTSA Web Site. I
> noticed that the FRM students are listed now as
> 28%, and the ESOL students are at 12.2%.,
> these numbers are down from the 33.2% RRM and
> 15.1% ESOL that FC SB Staff used in December.
>
>
> http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/SLHSGlanc
> e.pdf
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/sc
> enarios/alternativeoption.pdf
>
> How did the percentages drop so dramatically in
> the last 2 months. I am wondering if the SB Staff
> inflated the figues when trying to justify
> socio-economics as justification for the RD, and
> now that SL's feels like the RD is going to
> happen, they felt it prudent to put a better spin
> on the numbers, so that those who are forced to
> come, will feel a little better about the school.

It would certainly appear that they are manipulating the numbers. First FRL went way up over the summer and now they've brought it back down. The higher percentages supported their arguments that South Lakes HAD to be redistricted to balance socio economics and now the lower percentage supports their argument, 'see South Lakes isn't THAT bad'.

Have they adjusted the percentages on the option #5 maps?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 05, 2008 03:43PM

In case everyone here hasn't seen it, responses to questions from the January 14 school board work session have been posted on the agenda for the February 11 work session.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

Of note, only Tina Hone and James Raney are asking the tough questions - and the answers are mostly superficial and incomplete. For example, James Raney asks a question regarding the costs, benefits and risks of the RD effort and the response is simply that there is no additional cost to the status quo.

Obviously, this doesn't take into account the costs of double bussing, or the risks that the RD effort will not result in the desired enrollment level at SL leading to a potential redo of the effort. It does not discuss any planning risks such as how resources will be reallocated between the schools and how programs will be affected. Let alone the risk of continued community uproar, potential lawsuits, etc.

A similarly stock answer is provided to the question regarding consideration of a magnet school at SL.

Interestingly, maps were requested of the full Madison area, apparently to discern whether the so-called island is truly an island or not, as the Madison supporters claim. The full maps are posted but I'm still not sure I understand the answer - it appears the areas are joined at the corner only?

Also, they are answering questions regarding CHS and WF as if they simply desire a reduction in size of those schools without respect for capacity. They should have thought of this before Westfield was expanded, but what else is new. These chess players only think one move ahead as if long term planning is some kind of bad idea. The current long term planning consists of let's move the kids first, then once they are moved, we'll figure out what to do with them (i.e. in terms of resource allocation, additional programs, costs, etc.). Thinking about the next step is always premature until the previous step is complete - go figure.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exodus ()
Date: February 05, 2008 04:00PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> > The approrpiate question is not whether schools
> > should be limited to people from one town, or
> > whether all school supported a town, but
> whether,
> > space permitting, all residents of a town (or
> > town-like community) should be in the same
> > school.
> >
> > There is an active (but probably ultiately
> > quixotic) ResTOWN movement, as you might know,
> or
> > might not know, if you don't live in Reston.
> > Quite a bit of town-like pride in people who
> > choose to live in the planned community
> chartered
> > by Mr. Simon.
> (>
> > There's no corresponding ChantillyTown or
> > WestfieldTown movement or even community center
> or
> > homeowner association en masse ...
> -
> Another philosophical question: Given the
> political reality that students within Fairfax
> City boundaries WILL attend Fairfax High School,
> and given the physical locations of the high
> schools Oakton is just about halfway between
> Fairfax and Madison, maybe a mile and a quarter to
> each), what are the logical attendance boundaries
> for Oakton? Maybe east of Prosperity to Falls
> Church; north of 50 and west of Prosperity to
> Oakton; south of 50 to Woodson?
>
>
>
> Back to the current topic: The movement for a
> ResTOWN seems like yet another reason to put a
> moratorium on this particular redistricting
> proposal.



Yeah!

Put that in the litany, below "IB sux" and "where's Herndon and Langley" and above "there'll be a new President after Nov., who may have different priorities."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: February 05, 2008 06:31PM

Exodus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oakton Parent Wrote:
> > > The approrpiate question is not whether
> schools
> > > should be limited to people from one town, or
> > > whether all school supported a town, but
> > whether,
> > > space permitting, all residents of a town (or
> > > town-like community) should be in the same
> > > school.
> > >
> > > There is an active (but probably ultiately
> > > quixotic) ResTOWN movement, as you might
> know,
> > or
> > > might not know, if you don't live in Reston.
> > > Quite a bit of town-like pride in people who
> > > choose to live in the planned community
> > chartered
> > > by Mr. Simon.
> > (>
> > > There's no corresponding ChantillyTown or
> > > WestfieldTown movement or even community
> center
> > or
> > > homeowner association en masse ...
> > -
> > Another philosophical question: Given the
> > political reality that students within Fairfax
> > City boundaries WILL attend Fairfax High
> School,
> > and given the physical locations of the high
> > schools Oakton is just about halfway between
> > Fairfax and Madison, maybe a mile and a quarter
> to
> > each), what are the logical attendance
> boundaries
> > for Oakton? Maybe east of Prosperity to Falls
> > Church; north of 50 and west of Prosperity to
> > Oakton; south of 50 to Woodson?
> >
> >
> >
> > Back to the current topic: The movement for a
> > ResTOWN seems like yet another reason to put a
> > moratorium on this particular redistricting
> > proposal.
>
>
>
> Yeah!
>
> Put that in the litany, below "IB sux" and
> "where's Herndon and Langley" and above "there'll
> be a new President after Nov., who may have
> different priorities."

Since we are on hopeless philosophical questions...

Fairfax County is nearly completely built out. Are policies that were appropriate for a rapidly growing area appropriate going forward? During the rapid growth, as long as there were seats that's about all we could think about and redistrictings were a natural part of the build-out.

But, what's the approach for the county now that we're done with all we can do is react to the build out of the next landbay? Do we want to refocus on towns/town-like communities with community schools coextensive with the town/community boundaries? Having grown up in such a place, I would argue strongly that we should. Million plus person entities simply can't be communities, cannot offer a level of local control or community, they are way too large.

An argument for a once in a lifetime or last time redistricting of the county, and perhaps identification of schools to close and where new ones should be built with some transition plan (e.g. keep the kids here til that's done or move them there til the new one is completed.)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 05, 2008 06:32PM

Enough philosophical questions for now. Back to data:
Go to the Board Docs mentioned before.
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

Click on "2008-2009 Budget Questions" in the right column.
Bottom paragraph, page 5 informs us each AP test costs FCPS $74. It continues,
"An IB diploma student ... total of $795. The cost for a student who takes only one IB exam is $207."
[These are the costs of the exams only, not the cost of the IB coordinator, etc.]

This page also reveals:
- 28,598 AP tests were provided to 13,856 students students who took at least one AP exam.
- 5,488 tests were provided to 2,146 students who took at least one IB exam.

-----------
Now if we continue to crank out numbers, we can discover:
- 38.2% (13,856 students out of 36,289 students, grades 9-12) enrolled in AP high schools took at least one AP exam.
- 14.4% (2,146 students out of 14,858 students, grades 9-12) enrolled in IB high schools took at least one IB exam.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IB Veritas ()
Date: February 05, 2008 07:46PM

Forum Reader: I won't bother right now to get into the interpretation of these numbers. But I'm sure you're going to use them to screw IB, as you always do.The fact remains: More kids enrolled in IB CLASSES take exams than those enrolled in AP CLASSES -- even though several of the IB courses are two-year courses and thus reduce the total number of exams kids might otherwise take. A little fact you choose to ignore.

You also leave out the fact that IB tests cost $84 each to take -- same as AP -- except that FCPS just negotiated a deal with the College Board to reduce the fees to $74. The $207 for an IB kid taking one exam comes up because this includes one exam and a one-time enrollment fee -- that covers the ongoing assessments that keep the IB program on the straight and narrow -- and at high standards. Check it out.

Everyone else: Beware of people who "cherry pick" numbers to suit their IB-bashing agendas.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IB Veritas ()
Date: February 05, 2008 07:48PM

For each kid that takes two AP test, an IB kid takes 2.5.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 05, 2008 08:01PM

IB Veritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader: I won't bother right now to get into
> the interpretation of these numbers. But I'm sure
> you're going to use them to screw IB, as you
> always do.The fact remains: More kids enrolled in
> IB CLASSES take exams than those enrolled in AP
> CLASSES -- even though several of the IB courses
> are two-year courses and thus reduce the total
> number of exams kids might otherwise take. A
> little fact you choose to ignore.
>
> You also leave out the fact that IB tests cost $84
> each to take -- same as AP -- except that FCPS
> just negotiated a deal with the College Board to
> reduce the fees to $74. The $207 for an IB kid
> taking one exam comes up because this includes one
> exam and a one-time enrollment fee -- that covers
> the ongoing assessments that keep the IB program
> on the straight and narrow -- and at high
> standards. Check it out.
>
> Everyone else: Beware of people who "cherry pick"
> numbers to suit their IB-bashing agendas.


Ok here is the information I copied from Boarddocs:

"The IB fees are more complicated. There is a registration fee of $123 and then each test costs $84.00. An IB diploma student take 6 subject exams, Theory of Knowledge and the extended essy for a total of 8 assessments at $84 each, plus the registration fee for a total of $795.00. The cost for a student who takes only one IB exam is $207.00"

Where does it say FCPS negotiated with The College Board to reduce the fee to $74 for IB exams? It stated for AP test fees only and then gave a breakdown for the IB fees. Correct me if I am wrong.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IB vs AP ()
Date: February 05, 2008 09:06PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "The IB fees are more complicated. There is a
> registration fee of $123 and then each test costs
> $84.00. An IB diploma student take 6 subject
> exams, Theory of Knowledge and the extended essy
> for a total of 8 assessments at $84 each, plus the
> registration fee for a total of $795.00. The cost
> for a student who takes only one IB exam is
> $207.00"
>
> Where does it say FCPS negotiated with The College
> Board to reduce the fee to $74 for IB exams? It
> stated for AP test fees only and then gave a
> breakdown for the IB fees. Correct me if I am
> wrong.


Look at the information here for question number 4. It does give the info for the negotiated fee: http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/39c6389c088be51585256e56000c1bf2/cca48f07104f1e59872573d3004c69f0/$FILE/2008-2009%20Budget%20Questions.pdf

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 05, 2008 09:13PM

IB Veritas Wrote:
> Forum Reader: I won't bother right now to get into
> the interpretation of these numbers. But I'm sure
> you're going to use them to screw IB, as you
> always do. ...
>
> Everyone else: Beware of people who "cherry pick"
> numbers to suit their IB-bashing agendas.

IBV, you might want to take a break. Watch the Super Tuesday returns or something. You seem to have a touch of paranoia.

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/ap/about/fees
"The fee for each exam is $84, with schools retaining an $8 rebate per exam."

That reduces the price to FCPS, and for every other entity that gives AP exams, to $76.

I cannot find it in writing at the moment, but at a work session years ago it was said that because FCPS is the biggest AP customer in the world, it gets another $2 per exam discount. The current cost of AP exams to FCPS is $74, per exam as stated in the following paragraph, word for word, no "cherry picking", taken from the reference I provided previously [CD# KK01 Question # 4 / FY 2009 / BUDGET INFORMATION FORM / School Board Member Requesting Information: Kaye Kory / Answer Prepared By: Patrick K. Murphy / Date Prepared: Wednesday, January 23, 2008].

[Do you need me to copy the charts for you?]

The end of the FCPS staff answer reads:
"Consideration is being given to charge a single fee for both AP and IB tests. Currently, the actual cost of the AP exam is $84 to the public. FCPS has negotiated a contract with College Board to provide all AP tests at $74 for this year. (It goes up about $1 a year.) There is no reduction from College Board in the rate for our students on free and reduced lunch. The IB fees are more complicated. There is a registration fee of $123 and then each test costs $84. An IB diploma student takes 6 subject exams, Theory of Knowledge, and the extended essay for a total of 8 assessments at $84 each, plus the registration fee, for a total of $795. The cost for a student who takes only one IB exam is $207."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: word ()
Date: February 05, 2008 09:56PM

further proof that IB is a pile of crap

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 05, 2008 10:46PM

What does this statement mean? Does it refer to percentages? Its certainly not true in absolute terms:

"Forum Reader: ...The fact remains: More kids enrolled in IB CLASSES take exams than those enrolled in AP CLASSES -- even though several of the IB courses are two-year courses and thus reduce the total number of exams kids might otherwise take."

This still seems like the metric to track:

"- 38.2% (13,856 students out of 36,289 students, grades 9-12) enrolled in AP high schools took at least one AP exam.
- 14.4% (2,146 students out of 14,858 students, grades 9-12) enrolled in IB high schools took at least one IB exam."

I would think that the percentage of students who choose to partake of a program would be a pretty significant metric. All the numbers look better if you take out students who couldn't possibly take the exam because they can't take the classes, e.g. 9th graders for both, and I believe 10th graders for AP.

Bear in mind that this is just the number that took the exam. Per IBV, there are more AP students who take the class than those who take the exam.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: face_the_facts ()
Date: February 05, 2008 11:06PM

Why cant people face the facts? This has nothing to do with IB/AP/Capacity. Rich White folks of North Reston have to go to Langley which has to maintain non existant FRL and white demographics. South Lakes is for poor/middle class or non white folks. That the reason Fox Mill and Floris areas where chosen. Middle class or asian communities. They threw in Madison Island so that they wont get sued for racial discrimination.
Look at the racial make up of the school board and it is clear they have the votes to follow through with this.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 05, 2008 11:16PM

>>>- 28,598 AP tests were provided to 13,856 students students who took at least one AP exam.
- 5,488 tests were provided to 2,146 students who took at least one IB exam.
And

38.2% (13,856 students out of 36,289 students, grades 9-12) enrolled in AP high schools took at least one AP exam.
- 14.4% (2,146 students out of 14,858 students, grades 9-12) enrolled in IB high schools took at least one IB exam.

So, one program serves 13,856 students and one serves 2,146 students but the cost is the same? FCPS is paying the same for a program serves 1/6th the number of students? Could that possibly be right? why would we have such an expensive program in so many schools? Why isn't this a magnet in ONE school? TWO at the most?

How can FCPS justify spending SO MUCH more on a program that the majority of tax payers don't want for their children?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 05, 2008 11:18PM

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> further proof that IB is a pile of crap

A VERY EXPENSIVE pile of crap.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 05, 2008 11:18PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
> Per IBV, there are more AP
> students who take the class than those who take
> the exam. ...

I didn't understand what IBV was trying to say either. All students in IB and AP courses have to take the exams, paid for by FCPS, to get the .5 additional grade point.

That was the point of the question and answer we've been discussing. As part of the budget reductions for next year, FCPS is proposing to have families pay for the exams, as already happens in most jurisdictions. [FRM students would be covered by FCPS.]

I have heard real estate agents say Fairfax County houses are more desirable in some small part because so many students take AP and IB exams, and thus FCPS schools all show well in the Jay Mathews' "Challenge Index." It could therefore be argued that the money spent by the county on these exams is more than justified because these exams make the County look good.

Whether it would "fair" to give students an extra half grade point ONLY if they are willing to shell out $74 or $84 and to take an exam is another philosophical discussion best left for another day.

The current proposal is AP students would pay $84 per exam, with FCPS getting the $8 rebate, so FCPS actually would profit from each test. It would save families money if FCPS continued to order all the exams with its discount, and then charge non-FRM students $74 to take the exam.

IB students would also pay $84 per exam, but FCPS gets no rebate, and FCPS pays all the additional IB expenses, including the $123 registration fee. It might well be argued that FCPS should pay the extra IB expense only for FRM students.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IB Veritas ()
Date: February 06, 2008 12:34AM

There is no "rebate" for FCPS for AP exams! Geeze. Here is the ENTIRE response ty Kaye Kory's question. Note that a flat fee was charged in 2003/4. Enough extrapolation.

CD# KK01 Question # 4

FY 2009

BUDGET INFORMATION FORM

School Board Member Requesting Information: Kaye Kory

Answer Prepared By: Patrick K. Murphy

Date Prepared: Wednesday, January 23, 2008

Question:

Please provide the date of the last time we proposed to cut AP/IB fees. Was there a drop in

enrollment in AP/IB courses as reflected in test-takers? (KK01 – Murphy)

Response:

The number of AP and IB tests and the number of students taking them are reported below for

school years 2001 through 2007. In 2003 and 2004, FCPS charged students $25 for one test

(AP or IB) and $50 for two or more tests. In the other years (2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, and

2007), FCPS paid the fees associated with taking the AP and IB tests.

Overall, the number of tests taken and the number of students taking them increased between

2001 and 2007. However, there was a small decrease in the number of AP students between

2002 and 2003 and in the number of IB students between 2003 and 2004. There was also a

small decrease in the actual number of IB tests taken between 2003 and 2004.

AP Tests

2007 – 13,856 students and 28,598 tests

2006 – 12,561 students and 25,984 tests

2005 – 11,694 students and 23,724 tests

2004 – 10,557 students and 21,200 tests

2003 – 10,164 students and 20,688 tests

2002 – 10,306 students and 20,256 tests

2001 – 8,845 students and 17,560 tests

IB Tests

2007 – 2,146 students and 5,488 tests

2006 – 2,036 students and 5,092 tests

2005 – 2,011 students and 5,061 tests

2004 – 1,913 students and 4,735 tests

2003 – 1,990 students and 4,988 tests

2002 – 1,635 students and 3,751 tests

2001 – 1,398 students and 2,982 tests

The FY 2009 Proposed Budget includes charging students for the full cost of the test with no

cap on the total amount paid per student. Consideration is being given to charge a single fee

for both AP and IB tests. Currently, the actual cost of the AP exam is $84 to the public. FCPS

has negotiated a contract with College Board to provide all AP tests at $74 for this year. (It

goes up about $1 a year.) There is no reduction from College Board in the rate for our students

on free and reduced lunch. The IB fees are more complicated. There is a registration fee of

$123 and then each test costs $84. An IB diploma student takes 6 subject exams, Theory of

Knowledge, and the extended essay for a total of 8 assessments at $84 each, plus the

registration fee, for a total of $795. The cost for a student who takes only one IB exam is $207

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: South Lakes Alum ()
Date: February 06, 2008 03:47AM

Wow, this subject is very upsetting but does shed a lot of light on the social politics that exists today in Fairfax County. I went to South Lakes, I grew up in Reston. It's a shame to find ignorant people who spent their well-earned money on a house in Oakton or Chanitlly thinking that their investment and family is going to be shook up and lost due to some boundary changes. I currently am finishing up my education at one of the most prestigious and competitive universities in the United States and am in process of applying to graduate schools. I say this just to let you know, its South Lakes and my strong family and community that led me here.

South Lakes, the diversity, the experience, the heritage, is undoubtedly something that you would not know about unless you went there. The misled perception is that it's a school of divide, ruled by chaos and poor kids. Well let me tell you, its the mix of race, class, and economic status that makes this school special. And to talk about IB as being inferior to AP? Well that is all speculation and ridiculous. Its who your teachers are that makes a difference. My IB english teacher, Mr. Ward, is to this day one of the best humans I have ever had the opportunity to be taught by. It's what you put into it, if you don't think your high schoolers-to-be don't have the knowledge and power to deal with diversity, they will not undoubtedly fail in the global markets that their generations will be forced to work with.

FCPS should not have wasted money on renovating South Lakes and preparing it to be a competitive institution if it was going to be looked away and shunned by narrow minded parents of neighboring areas.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 06, 2008 05:04AM

Why do South Lakes people always talk about the great diversity at South Lakes rather than the great academics? Hint, parents care about the academics, not the 'diversity' or class of people or the heritage (whatever that might be). Parents are looking for the best EDUCATION for their child, all that other stuff is not important to them in a school. It's about the ACADEMICS, stupid.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 06, 2008 06:15AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>- 28,598 AP tests were provided to 13,856
> students students who took at least one AP exam.
> - 5,488 tests were provided to 2,146 students who
> took at least one IB exam.
> And
>
> 38.2% (13,856 students out of 36,289 students,
> grades 9-12) enrolled in AP high schools took at
> least one AP exam.
> - 14.4% (2,146 students out of 14,858 students,
> grades 9-12) enrolled in IB high schools took at
> least one IB exam.
>
One thing to keep in mind regarding the percentages of students taking tests, is IB limits their tests to Juniors and Seniors, with many more tests taken during senior year due to HL being two years. AP allows all grades to take the coures (in FCPS starting at 10th grade) and thus more students go into the pool so to speak and get counted. In addition, as has been pointed out, some IB students might take advantage of the fact that they can take AP exams without taking the course...so yes, this does point to AP's flexibility, but wanted to give a perspective on how the numbers play out. With AP using the total students (9th-12th) works out better percentage wise than IB. I am sure if you only used those "eligible to test" meaning grades the tests are given, IB's stats would look a little better than they appear here. AP would still claim the majority though, since there are more courses and more schools that offer AP.


> So, one program serves 13,856 students and one
> serves 2,146 students but the cost is the same?
> FCPS is paying the same for a program serves 1/6th
> the number of students? Could that possibly be
> right? why would we have such an expensive
> program in so many schools? Why isn't this a
> magnet in ONE school? TWO at the most?
>
> How can FCPS justify spending SO MUCH more on a
> program that the majority of tax payers don't want
> for their children?

And in terms of how many the program serves, it doesn't really serve 13,856 because it doesn't serve students in IB schools until they are juniors. The 9th and 10th grade courses even if they are called pre-IB are not part of the IB program, which is why IBO has told FCPS to change the titles of those courses to honors.

I actually think FCPS is wondering about the cost of IB, and perhaps soon will suggest doing away with it due to budgetary reasons..allowing of course students already in the program to finish up.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 06, 2008 06:19AM

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>- 28,598 AP tests were provided to 13,856
> > students students who took at least one AP
> exam.
> > - 5,488 tests were provided to 2,146 students
> who
> > took at least one IB exam.
> > And
> >
> > 38.2% (13,856 students out of 36,289 students,
> > grades 9-12) enrolled in AP high schools took
> at
> > least one AP exam.
> > - 14.4% (2,146 students out of 14,858 students,
> > grades 9-12) enrolled in IB high schools took
> at
> > least one IB exam.
> >
> One thing to keep in mind regarding the
> percentages of students taking tests, is IB limits
> their tests to Juniors and Seniors, with many more
> tests taken during senior year due to HL being two
> years. AP allows all grades to take the coures
> (in FCPS starting at 10th grade) and thus more
> students go into the pool so to speak and get
> counted. In addition, as has been pointed out,
> some IB students might take advantage of the fact
> that they can take AP exams without taking the
> course...so yes, this does point to AP's
> flexibility, but wanted to give a perspective on
> how the numbers play out. With AP using the total
> students (9th-12th) works out better percentage
> wise than IB. I am sure if you only used those
> "eligible to test" meaning grades the tests are
> given, IB's stats would look a little better than
> they appear here. AP would still claim the
> majority though, since there are more courses and
> more schools that offer AP.
>
>
> > So, one program serves 13,856 students and one
> > serves 2,146 students but the cost is the same?
>
> > FCPS is paying the same for a program serves
> 1/6th
> > the number of students? Could that possibly be
> > right? why would we have such an expensive
> > program in so many schools? Why isn't this a
> > magnet in ONE school? TWO at the most?
> >
> > How can FCPS justify spending SO MUCH more on a
> > program that the majority of tax payers don't
> want
> > for their children?
>
> And in terms of how many the program serves, it
> doesn't really serve 13,856 because it doesn't
> serve students in IB schools until they are
> juniors. The 9th and 10th grade courses even if
> they are called pre-IB are not part of the IB
> program, which is why IBO has told FCPS to change
> the titles of those courses to honors.
>
> I actually think FCPS is wondering about the cost
> of IB, and perhaps soon will suggest doing away
> with it due to budgetary reasons..allowing of
> course students already in the program to finish

I made a mistake above after mis-reading Neen's post. Please ignore my second to last paragraph..not enough coffee yet.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 06, 2008 08:02AM

IB Veritas Wrote:
> There is no "rebate" for FCPS for AP exams! Geeze.

------------
Let me try again to explain AP test fees. First let's talk about "most" schools, where parents write a check to the school.

Go to:
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/ap/about/fees
The word "rebate" is used repeatedly:

"Coordinators are responsible for collecting exam fees from students. ... Checks and money orders should be made payable to the school administering the AP Exam, not the College Board. ... The fee for each exam is $84, with schools retaining an $8 REBATE per exam. ... The College Board provides a $22 fee reduction per exam for students with financial need. For each eligible student, schools should also forgo their $8 REBATE." [emphasis mine]

This shows that at MOST schools, the school collects $84 from each student. The school keeps $8 of the $84 and then sends one big check to the College Board. That way the College Board does not have to deal with lots of small checks. The school keeps an $8 REBATE from each test and the College Board receives $76. Do you follow so far?

-----------

FPCS strongly encourages all students who take an AP exam to take the AP test. I do not have hard data at my fingertips, but as I mentioned above, some real estate agents indicate having a lot of students take AP or IB exams helps in some small way to attract people to Fairfax County. Taking these exams helps the students as well. Taking a three hour college-style test is an educational experience in itself, and, as has been discussed before, performing well on an AP exam very often results in advantages in terms of college admission, placement, and credit. However, these advantages are not the point of this particular post.

Two of the ways FCPS "strongly encourages all students who take an AP exam to take the AP test" are (1) to grant an extra half grade point to students who take the exam and (2) to pay the cost of the exam; whether or not FCPS should continue to pay for these exams is part of the current budget discussions.

FCPS writes one giant check to the College Board, but does not charge itself $84 per exam and then give each AP high school an $8 per exam "rebate." Because FPCS is such a huge customer [as you stated in your post, "28,598 tests in 2007"] the College Board knock another couple dollars off the cost, so FCPS pays only $74 per AP exam.

Bottom line: Yes, there is an "AP Exam Fee Rebate" but it is already factored into the discounted rate that FCPS pays.

Did I state AP test fees more clearly this time? Are you ready for me to explain IB fees?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 06, 2008 09:50AM

South Lakes Alum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> FCPS should not have wasted money on renovating
> South Lakes and preparing it to be a competitive
> institution if it was going to be looked away and
> shunned by narrow minded parents of neighboring
> areas.

Similarly, FCPS should not have wasted money on Westfield expansion if they were only going to turn around and decide the school is too large and needs to be reduced. It seems FCPS is wasting a lot of money due to poor planning.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 06, 2008 09:51AM

There have been different reason given for the declining enrollment in South Lakes High School, and one of the reasons that I have heard many times, is that Reston has an "aging population",and the the original owners in South Lakes stay in their homes even after their school aged children leave. This seemed reasonable, until I did some research.

This prompted me to do a search of the Resale activity in the 2 primary zip codes in Reston that feed the mojority of homes into South Lakes. Here is what I came up with, based on homes that sold and closed in 2006 and 2007:

Zip Code 20191 had 531 sales in 2007 and 582 in 2006 for a total turnover of 1113 households.

Zip Code 20190 had 395 sales in 2007 and 488 in 2006, for a total turnover of 883 households.

Combining the two, you will see that there have been 1996 resales of homes in just the last 2 years in these 2 Reston Zip Codes.

Even if you make assumptions that some of these homes are either condo or small town homes, a logical person would expect that a fair number of these homes are Single family, and logic would dictate thatthe new families occupying these homes should have children that become students in the Reston/ South Lakes pyramid.

The question is, with almost 2000 new households in just these 2 zip codes over the last 2 years, "WHY are the South Lakes enrollment numbers getting smaller, and why is the School Board projecting a continued decline in enrollments if this current RD is not approved?

There is something terribly skewed in the numbers.

Price Comparisons 20191 Zip Code 2007

List, Original, Close Price

Criteria:

Status: SOLD (531)

ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice

Min $119,000 $138,010 $109,000

Max $2,100,000 $2,350,000 $1,900,000

Avg $422,190 $438,120 $412,125




Price Comparisons 20191 Zip Code 2006

List, Original, Close Price

Criteria:

Status: SOLD (582)

ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice

Min $125,000 $125,000 $125,000

Max $1,375,000 $1,375,000 $1,395,000

Avg $425,964 $437,611 $418,629



Price Comparisons 20190 2007

List, Original, Close Price

Criteria:

Status: SOLD (395)

ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice

Min $168,500 $170,000 $173,555

Max $3,135,232 $3,135,232 $3,135,232

Avg $465,469 $477,734 $456,249



Price Comparisons 20190 2006

List, Original, Close Price

Criteria:

Status: SOLD (488)

ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice

Min $169,900 $199,000 $170,000

Max $1,590,000 $1,595,000 $1,460,000

Avg $442,802 $455,473 $434,438


Price Comparisons 20171 Zip Code 2007

List, Original, Close Price

Criteria:

Status: SOLD (506)

ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice

Min $243,900 $243,900 $243,900

Max $1,800,000 $1,875,000 $1,800,000

Avg $563,443 $579,632 $548,087




Price Comparisons 20171 Zip Code 2006

List, Original, Close Price

Criteria:

Status: SOLD (651)

ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice

Min $185,900 $185,900 $185,900

Max $2,500,000 $2,500,000 $2,358,933

Avg $560,559 $574,526 $549,060

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 06, 2008 09:52AM

IB Veritas Wrote:
> Kaye Kory's question.
> Please provide the date of the last time we
> proposed to cut AP/IB fees. Was there a drop in
> enrollment in AP/IB courses as reflected in
> test-takers? (KK01 – Murphy)
>
> Response:
> The number of AP and IB tests and the number of
> students taking them are reported below for
> school years 2001 through 2007. In 2003 and 2004,
> FCPS charged students $25 for one test
> (AP or IB) and $50 for two or more tests. In the
> other years (2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, and
> 2007), FCPS paid the fees associated with taking
> the AP and IB tests.
>
> Overall, the number of tests taken and the number
> of students taking them increased between
> 2001 and 2007. However, there was a small decrease
> in the number of AP students between
> 2002 and 2003 and in the number of IB students
> between 2003 and 2004. There was also a
> small decrease in the actual number of IB tests
> taken between 2003 and 2004.
>
> AP Tests
> 2007 – 13,856 students and 28,598 tests
> 2006 – 12,561 students and 25,984 tests
> 2005 – 11,694 students and 23,724 tests
> 2004 – 10,557 students and 21,200 tests
> 2003 – 10,164 students and 20,688 tests
> 2002 – 10,306 students and 20,256 tests
> 2001 – 8,845 students and 17,560 tests
>
> IB Tests
> 2007 – 2,146 students and 5,488 tests
> 2006 – 2,036 students and 5,092 tests
> 2005 – 2,011 students and 5,061 tests
> 2004 – 1,913 students and 4,735 tests
> 2003 – 1,990 students and 4,988 tests
> 2002 – 1,635 students and 3,751 tests
> 2001 – 1,398 students and 2,982 tests
>
IB grew rapidly 2001-2003, but it is important to note that in those years South Lakes, Annandale, and Lee were becoming IB schools.

I am trying to avoid what you call "cherry picking" but can we agree just to study the last five years of data, after Woodson got rid of IB and the eight current FCPS IB schools all had their IB programmes up and running?

From the data YOU posted:
AP Students / AP Exams /// IB Students / IB Exams
2003 10,164 / 20,688 /// 1,990 / 4,988
2004 10,557 / 21,200 /// 1,913 / 4,735
2005 11,694 / 23,724 /// 2,011 / 5,061
2006 12,561 / 25,984 /// 2,036 / 5,092
2007 13,856 / 28,598 /// 2,146 / 5,488

Simple subtraction:
- Between 2003 and 2007, AP grew by 3672 students and 7910 exams.
- Between 2003 and 2007, IB grew by 156 students and 500 exams.

Of course, because AP is so much bigger, it is more fair to look at percentage growth:
- Between 2003 and 2007, AP grew by 36.3% in students and by 38.2% in number of exams.
- Between 2003 and 2007, IB grew by 7.8%% in students and by 10% in number of exams.

It seems important to you to note:
> IB Veritas
> Date: February 05, 2008 07:48PM
> For each kid that takes two AP test, an IB kid takes 2.5.

OK. I agree. IB Diploma Candidates must take six IB exams. I have consistently said the FULL IB Diploma Programme is great for the roughly 5% of students who earn it. I have also consistently endorsed an IB magnet program for them.

But what about the other 95% of the students?

The data YOU posted also prove a significant point: For the same cost, AP serves FAR more students.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 06, 2008 10:00AM

Floris Parent Wrote:
> ... There is something terribly skewed in the numbers. ...
>
I love numbers, but could you tell me in words what you are referring to in this particular comment? That the average house costs more in one zip code than another?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Anonymous ()
Date: February 06, 2008 10:20AM

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Alum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > FCPS should not have wasted money on renovating
> > South Lakes and preparing it to be a
> competitive
> > institution if it was going to be looked away
> and
> > shunned by narrow minded parents of neighboring
> > areas.
>
> Similarly, FCPS should not have wasted money on
> Westfield expansion if they were only going to
> turn around and decide the school is too large and
> needs to be reduced. It seems FCPS is wasting a
> lot of money due to poor planning.

Coppermine and the West County High School are prime examples

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 06, 2008 10:21AM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> > ... There is something terribly skewed in the
> numbers. ...
> >
> I love numbers, but could you tell me in words
> what you are referring to in this particular
> comment? That the average house costs more in one
> zip code than another?



To clarify my point Forum Reader regarding skewed numbers, I am referring to the lack of projected students based on the fact that almost 2000 new families have moved into Reston over the past 2 years.I hope this helps you.

My question is this: with almost 2000 new households in the 2 Reston zip codes changing hands in just the last 2 years, "WHY are the projections for future enrollments in South Lakes going down, raher than up. Please read my post again. The avaerage prices of the zip codes are what they are,and are just a result of the MRIS seach that was used.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 06, 2008 10:24AM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There have been different reason given for the
> declining enrollment in South Lakes High School,
> and one of the reasons that I have heard many
> times, is that Reston has an "aging
> population",and the the original owners in South
> Lakes stay in their homes even after their school
> aged children leave. This seemed reasonable, until
> I did some research.
>
> This prompted me to do a search of the Resale
> activity in the 2 primary zip codes in Reston that
> feed the mojority of homes into South Lakes. Here
> is what I came up with, based on homes that sold
> and closed in 2006 and 2007:
>
> Zip Code 20191 had 531 sales in 2007 and 582 in
> 2006 for a total turnover of 1113 households.
>
> Zip Code 20190 had 395 sales in 2007 and 488 in
> 2006, for a total turnover of 883 households.
>
> Combining the two, you will see that there have
> been 1996 resales of homes in just the last 2
> years in these 2 Reston Zip Codes.
>
> Even if you make assumptions that some of these
> homes are either condo or small town homes, a
> logical person would expect that a fair number of
> these homes are Single family, and logic would
> dictate thatthe new families occupying these homes
> should have children that become students in the
> Reston/ South Lakes pyramid.
>
> The question is, with almost 2000 new households
> in just these 2 zip codes over the last 2 years,
> "WHY are the South Lakes enrollment numbers
> getting smaller, and why is the School Board
> projecting a continued decline in enrollments if
> this current RD is not approved?
>
> There is something terribly skewed in the
> numbers.
>
> Price Comparisons 20191 Zip Code 2007
>
> List, Original, Close Price
>
> Criteria:
>
> Status: SOLD (531)
>
> ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
>
> Min $119,000 $138,010 $109,000
>
> Max $2,100,000 $2,350,000 $1,900,000
>
> Avg $422,190 $438,120 $412,125
>
>
>
>
> Price Comparisons 20191 Zip Code 2006
>
> List, Original, Close Price
>
> Criteria:
>
> Status: SOLD (582)
>
> ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
>
> Min $125,000 $125,000 $125,000
>
> Max $1,375,000 $1,375,000 $1,395,000
>
> Avg $425,964 $437,611 $418,629
>
>
>
> Price Comparisons 20190 2007
>
> List, Original, Close Price
>
> Criteria:
>
> Status: SOLD (395)
>
> ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
>
> Min $168,500 $170,000 $173,555
>
> Max $3,135,232 $3,135,232 $3,135,232
>
> Avg $465,469 $477,734 $456,249
>
>
>
> Price Comparisons 20190 2006
>
> List, Original, Close Price
>
> Criteria:
>
> Status: SOLD (488)
>
> ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
>
> Min $169,900 $199,000 $170,000
>
> Max $1,590,000 $1,595,000 $1,460,000
>
> Avg $442,802 $455,473 $434,438
>
>
> Price Comparisons 20171 Zip Code 2007
>
> List, Original, Close Price
>
> Criteria:
>
> Status: SOLD (506)
>
> ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
>
> Min $243,900 $243,900 $243,900
>
> Max $1,800,000 $1,875,000 $1,800,000
>
> Avg $563,443 $579,632 $548,087
>
>
>
>
> Price Comparisons 20171 Zip Code 2006
>
> List, Original, Close Price
>
> Criteria:
>
> Status: SOLD (651)
>
> ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
>
> Min $185,900 $185,900 $185,900
>
> Max $2,500,000 $2,500,000 $2,358,933
>
> Avg $560,559 $574,526 $549,060

Yes, I simply don't buy this "aging population" crap as given by FCPS for reasons to justify the SL RD. There are a number of huge townhome complexes in the Reston area..these complexes are alive with hundreds of families. I used to live in Reston years ago so I know at least there are two very large townhome complexes..SL should be able to get more kids through natural attrition rather than a forced RD.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 06, 2008 10:34AM

I meant that SL should be able to have more kids naturally rather than a forced RD given the population in Reston with these houses, townhome complexes, etc.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 06, 2008 10:37AM

Floris Parent Wrote:
> To clarify my point Forum Reader regarding skewed
> numbers, I am referring to the lack of projected
> students based on the fact that almost 2000 new
> families have moved into Reston over the past 2
> years.I hope this helps you....
>
Yes, thank you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Hopeful ()
Date: February 06, 2008 02:04PM

SLA,

You may be a smart person, but your statements indicate you don't get it.

People who choose to buy in a given community often buy according to the schools. We did.

When a small group then decides to unilaterally change the school boundaries, it should not be surprising that people who chose their home based on the schools will be upset -- particularly if the change results in redistricting to a "lower performing" school.

There no doubt is plenty of anecdotal evidence that SL is a good school, and that it helped you -- bravo I say. But that does not in any way mitigate how the pawns in this local drama feel about the situation.

We agree that the funds spent on SL were a miscalculation. Apparently the SB felt that they could throw $$ at SL and that would ease the sting of the redistricting that they had in mind (but were keeping to themselves and perhaps a privileged few). If they had spent more effort in restoring the school performance (on a measurable, not anecdotal basis) to equal or better yet exceed those of its nearby demographic peers, then I doubt the resistance to RD would be as strong as it is.

So my question to you is whether there is a way to heal the rifts between communities that this process has created, or whether it is better to simply attribute the resistance to "ignorant people" and "narrow minded parents" and walk away.

South Lakes Alum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, this subject is very upsetting but does shed
> a lot of light on the social politics that exists
> today in Fairfax County. I went to South Lakes, I
> grew up in Reston. It's a shame to find ignorant
> people who spent their well-earned money on a
> house in Oakton or Chanitlly thinking that their
> investment and family is going to be shook up and
> lost due to some boundary changes. I currently am
> finishing up my education at one of the most
> prestigious and competitive universities in the
> United States and am in process of applying to
> graduate schools. I say this just to let you
> know, its South Lakes and my strong family and
> community that led me here.
>
> South Lakes, the diversity, the experience, the
> heritage, is undoubtedly something that you would
> not know about unless you went there. The misled
> perception is that it's a school of divide, ruled
> by chaos and poor kids. Well let me tell you, its
> the mix of race, class, and economic status that
> makes this school special. And to talk about IB
> as being inferior to AP? Well that is all
> speculation and ridiculous. Its who your teachers
> are that makes a difference. My IB english
> teacher, Mr. Ward, is to this day one of the best
> humans I have ever had the opportunity to be
> taught by. It's what you put into it, if you don't
> think your high schoolers-to-be don't have the
> knowledge and power to deal with diversity, they
> will not undoubtedly fail in the global markets
> that their generations will be forced to work
> with.
>
> FCPS should not have wasted money on renovating
> South Lakes and preparing it to be a competitive
> institution if it was going to be looked away and
> shunned by narrow minded parents of neighboring
> areas.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris ()
Date: February 06, 2008 02:07PM

Umm, maybe there not a single student living in these 2000 units. I wonder what is the county's projection for multi-dwelling units based on.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LakeFairfax ()
Date: February 06, 2008 03:08PM

The numbers that Floris parent gave out on average housing values are quite misleading.

20191 and 20190 have a mixed bag of condos, townhomes and single family homes. The single family homes in the 20190 zip are lower than 20190, but the single family homes in the Fox Mill and Hunters Woods area are comparable.

This is not disaggregated in the data for the zip codes 20190 and 20191, and hence, is misleading.

I will also tell you from first hand experience that numerous people with younger kids (below age 5) and older couples are moving into the South Reston neighborhoods. The homes are in general, smaller, and many people are their children get older prefer to get bigger homes which are in short supply in South Reston.



Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Floris Parent Wrote:
> > > ... There is something terribly skewed in the
> > numbers. ...
> > >
> > I love numbers, but could you tell me in words
> > what you are referring to in this particular
> > comment? That the average house costs more in
> one
> > zip code than another?
>
>
>
> To clarify my point Forum Reader regarding skewed
> numbers, I am referring to the lack of projected
> students based on the fact that almost 2000 new
> families have moved into Reston over the past 2
> years.I hope this helps you.
>
> My question is this: with almost 2000 new
> households in the 2 Reston zip codes changing
> hands in just the last 2 years, "WHY are the
> projections for future enrollments in South Lakes
> going down, raher than up. Please read my post
> again. The avaerage prices of the zip codes are
> what they are,and are just a result of the MRIS
> seach that was used.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 06, 2008 03:33PM

>>>I actually think FCPS is wondering about the cost of IB, and perhaps soon will suggest doing away with it due to budgetary reasons..allowing of course students already in the program to finish up.<<<

Do you have any particular reasons for thinking that? I've seen no mention of it from Dr. Dale or the School board. Nor have I ever seen them abolish any program, for any reason, certainly not a program that fits with their ideology, regardless of cost. I would love to think that you are right and that they would let their heads rule their hearts this time, but I just don't see it happening. The leftists among them, which is nearly all of our board, would go crazy at the thought. They would rather penalize poor kids in IB schools, and spend 5 times more money, than get rid of something that supports their political ideology.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 06, 2008 03:38PM

Hopeful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLA,
>
> You may be a smart person, but your statements
> indicate you don't get it.
>
> People who choose to buy in a given community
> often buy according to the schools. We did.
>
> When a small group then decides to unilaterally
> change the school boundaries, it should not be
> surprising that people who chose their home based
> on the schools will be upset -- particularly if
> the change results in redistricting to a "lower
> performing" school.
>
> There no doubt is plenty of anecdotal evidence
> that SL is a good school, and that it helped you
> -- bravo I say. But that does not in any way
> mitigate how the pawns in this local drama feel
> about the situation.
>
> We agree that the funds spent on SL were a
> miscalculation. Apparently the SB felt that they
> could throw $$ at SL and that would ease the sting
> of the redistricting that they had in mind (but
> were keeping to themselves and perhaps a
> privileged few). If they had spent more effort in
> restoring the school performance (on a measurable,
> not anecdotal basis) to equal or better yet exceed
> those of its nearby demographic peers, then I
> doubt the resistance to RD would be as strong as
> it is.
>
> So my question to you is whether there is a way to
> heal the rifts between communities that this
> process has created, or whether it is better to
> simply attribute the resistance to "ignorant
> people" and "narrow minded parents" and walk
> away.
>
Very nice post. You said very well what is happening with this RD. South Lakes supporters are not helping their cause with the name calling. It just makes people feel worse about having to go to their school. Who wants to attend a school where the people have already pronounced you ignorant? It's very discouraging and disheartening to those who are being forced to change schools.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 06, 2008 04:11PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>I actually think FCPS is wondering about the
> cost of IB, and perhaps soon will suggest doing
> away with it due to budgetary reasons..allowing of
> course students already in the program to finish
> up.<<<
>
> Do you have any particular reasons for thinking
> that? I've seen no mention of it from Dr. Dale or
> the School board. Nor have I ever seen them
> abolish any program, for any reason, certainly not
> a program that fits with their ideology,
> regardless of cost. I would love to think that
> you are right and that they would let their heads
> rule their hearts this time, but I just don't see
> it happening. The leftists among them, which is
> nearly all of our board, would go crazy at the
> thought. They would rather penalize poor kids in
> IB schools, and spend 5 times more money, than get
> rid of something that supports their political
> ideology.

Primarily from funding/training issues I have seen with MYP schools, and grumblings I am hearing about changes IBNA (IB North America) is wanting, that IB HS's aren't too fond of. Somewhat speculation, somewhat rumors, and some solid comments from IBNA, coupling that with the budget issues and charging for AP, PSAT and IB tests leads me to garner a guess that IB might be soon on the outs. I am certainly not suggesting within the next couple of years, but within five I would bet. IB will cost families more than AP, especially if you tack on the VHSL fees of $100 per activity/sport. Many IB students utilize those activities for the CAS requirements.

But, I want to clarify I have heard nothing directly from anyone within FCPS or the board in regards to going AP within all the HS's.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: February 06, 2008 04:14PM

I need some help with how Title 1 money is distributed. Des anyone here know anything about it?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 06, 2008 04:35PM

AP vs IB Wrote:

> Primarily from ... and grumblings I am hearing
> about changes IBNA (IB North America) is wanting,
> that IB HS's aren't too fond of. Somewhat
> speculation, somewhat rumors, and some solid
> comments from IBNA, ...

Can you provide some sort of idea about the sort of changes IBNA wants? Or at least direct us to the "solid comments from IBNA"?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 06, 2008 04:44PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP vs IB Wrote:
>
> > Primarily from ... and grumblings I am hearing
> > about changes IBNA (IB North America) is
> wanting,
> > that IB HS's aren't too fond of. Somewhat
> > speculation, somewhat rumors, and some solid
> > comments from IBNA, ...
>
> Can you provide some sort of idea about the sort
> of changes IBNA wants? Or at least direct us to
> the "solid comments from IBNA"?

I can provide more specifics later this week; my "source" told me some things, but I want clarification prior to posting it. I will be meeting with the person later this week.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 06, 2008 05:07PM

LakeFairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The numbers that Floris parent gave out on average
> housing values are quite misleading.
>
> 20191 and 20190 have a mixed bag of condos,
> townhomes and single family homes. The single
> family homes in the 20190 zip are lower than
> 20190, but the single family homes in the Fox Mill
> and Hunters Woods area are comparable.
>
> This is not disaggregated in the data for the zip
> codes 20190 and 20191, and hence, is misleading.
>
> I will also tell you from first hand experience
> that numerous people with younger kids (below age
> 5) and older couples are moving into the South
> Reston neighborhoods. The homes are in general,
> smaller, and many people are their children get
> older prefer to get bigger homes which are in
> short supply in South Reston.
>
>
>
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum Reader Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Floris Parent Wrote:
> > > > ... There is something terribly skewed in
> the
> > > numbers. ...
> > > >
> > > I love numbers, but could you tell me in
> words
> > > what you are referring to in this particular
> > > comment? That the average house costs more in
> > one
> > > zip code than another?
> >
> >
> >
> > To clarify my point Forum Reader regarding
> skewed
> > numbers, I am referring to the lack of
> projected
> > students based on the fact that almost 2000 new
> > families have moved into Reston over the past 2
> > years.I hope this helps you.
> >
> > My question is this: with almost 2000 new
> > households in the 2 Reston zip codes changing
> > hands in just the last 2 years, "WHY are the
> > projections for future enrollments in South
> Lakes
> > going down, raher than up. Please read my post
> > again. The avaerage prices of the zip codes are
> > what they are,and are just a result of the MRIS
> > seach that was used.


Lake Fairfax,

I am not attempting to mislead with fifures.

The numbers regarding prices are the aggregate of all resales in the selected zip codes. I agree that there are a mix of TH, Condo and SF home. This is true for the 20171 zip code as well, which also includes TH's and condo's.

The point is not to compare relatives values of homes, but to understand where all of the school aged children in Reston are going to school. There is clearly a healthy turn over of homes, and I would think that it is reasonable that a Town home as well as a Single family home is going to have high school aged children.

It is understood that average prices of homes are just that, and all averages will include a mix of bigger/Smaller, newe/older homes.

Please also keep in mind, that there are other Zip codes in Reston that should also be sending students into the South Lakes Pyramid that are not included in these stats.

In Reston, during the last 2 years, there have been 289 SF detached homes sold, 719 Town Homes sold and 935 Condos sold. I understand that the condo's may have just a few children, but the SF and TH's most definately will have school aged children.

During the same time period Oak Hill saw 590 detached homes sold, 377 Town homes sold, and 167 Condo's sold.

Here is a breakdown of all homes sold in the 3 zip code area's

Price Comparisons 20191 Condos 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (151)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $119,000 $138,010 $109,000
Max $399,900 $449,900 $399,000
Avg $259,779 $270,138 $253,545

Price Comparisons 20191 Condos 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (207)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $125,000 $125,000 $125,000
Max $1,250,000 $1,250,000 $1,295,970
Avg $297,226 $303,344 $293,581

20191 Total Condo Sales from 2006-2007= 358 (33% of all homes sold in 20191)

Price Comparisons 20191 SF 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (127)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $264,900 $319,900 $252,000
Max $2,100,000 $2,350,000 $1,900,000
Avg $629,188 $652,876 $612,027

Price Comparisons 20191 SF 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (129)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $399,900 $399,900 $377,000
Max $1,375,000 $1,375,000 $1,395,000
Avg $637,391 $656,784 $622,047

20191 total SF Sales from 2006-2007=256 (23% of all homes sold in 20191)


Price Comparisons 20191 TH 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (246)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $165,375 $179,900 $165,375
Max $1,089,999 $1,094,272 $1,050,000
Avg $416,436 $431,824 $407,571

Price Comparisons 20191 TH 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (237)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $280,000 $300,000 $250,000
Max $995,000 $995,000 $995,000
Avg $423,515 $436,111 $417,353

20191 Total TH sales 2006-2007=473 (44% of all homes sold in 20191)


Price Comparisons 20190 SF 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (17)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $489,000 $525,000 $470,000
Max $1,050,000 $1,090,000 $1,050,000
Avg $705,523 $738,282 $686,029

Price Comparisons 20190 SF 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (16)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $275,000 $275,000 $250,000
Max $1,099,999 $1,199,990 $1,000,000
Avg $680,894 $709,424 $654,144

20190 total SF sales 2006-2007=33 (4% of all homes sold in 20190)


Price Comparisons 20190 TH 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (119)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $300,000 $300,000 $300,000
Max $985,000 $985,000 $985,000
Avg $483,692 $494,872 $475,453

Price Comparisons 20190 TH 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (127)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $299,900 $315,000 $291,000
Max $929,999 $929,999 $855,000
Avg $493,053 $506,871 $482,463

20190 Total TH Sales 2007-2007=246 (29% of all homes sold in 20190)



Price Comparisons 20190 CO 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (249)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $168,500 $170,000 $173,555
Max $3,135,232 $3,135,232 $3,135,232
Avg $436,731 $448,345 $427,739

Price Comparisons 20190 CO 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (328)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $169,900 $199,000 $170,000
Max $1,590,000 $1,595,000 $1,460,000
Avg $414,782 $426,637 $407,984

20190 Total CO sales 2006-2007=577 (67% of all homes sold in 20190)


Price Comparisons 20171 SF 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (282)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $339,000 $350,455 $265,000
Max $1,800,000 $1,875,000 $1,800,000
Avg $679,785 $701,598 $659,122

Price Comparisons 20171 SF 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (308)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $311,129 $311,129 $311,129
Max $2,500,000 $2,500,000 $2,358,933
Avg $712,844 $732,476 $695,660

20171 Total SF Sales 2006-2007= 590 (52% of all homes sold in 20171)


Price Comparisons 20171 TH 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (159)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $309,900 $317,000 $310,000
Max $724,900 $724,900 $705,000
Avg $433,541 $443,611 $423,034

Price Comparisons 20171 TH 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (218)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $319,900 $319,900 $320,000
Max $774,811 $774,811 $774,811
Avg $473,090 $484,710 $464,978

20171 Total TH sales 2006-2007=377 (33% of all homes sold in 20171)

Price Comparisons 20171 CO 2007
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (57)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $243,900 $243,900 $243,900
Max $485,000 $485,000 $467,297
Avg $344,181 $348,009 $341,328

Price Comparisons 20171 CO 2006
List, Original, Close Price
Criteria:
Status: SOLD (110)
ListPrice OrigPrice ClosePrice
Min $185,900 $185,900 $185,900
Max $535,000 $535,000 $535,000
Avg $332,198 $336,453 $328,897

20171 Total CO Sales 2006-2007=167 (15% of all homes sold in 20171)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: A Troll ()
Date: February 06, 2008 05:48PM

South Lakes Alum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> FCPS should not have wasted money on renovating
> South Lakes and preparing it to be a competitive
> institution if it was going to be looked away and
> shunned by narrow minded parents of neighboring
> areas.

What's going on over in Reston? Is there something in the water?

Why do so many of them feel a need to insult the character and motivations of anyone who simply prefers their current school assignment over a switch to South Lakes?

Maybe stagnant pondwater or decaying '70s townhouses give off some kind of toxic gas.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lake Fairfax ()
Date: February 06, 2008 06:29PM

The best way to put a stop to criticisms is to stop doing it yourself, no?

No one on either side of the fence -- the SL community or other areas - can control everyone who is advocating for "their side." Take that as a given. So insults hurled by anyone who is advocating on any side should NOT be imputed to the entire community. Many reasonable people are quiet because they don't want to get into a no-win situation.

You can't rebuke an entire community for the sake of the few who have offended you, and then in turn hurl insults yourself. Is this what this forum is about?

Again -- stand on principle. The reality at this point is that redistricting wil go through in some form or another. People's lives will be impacted and for the sake of children, the more reasonable of us will have to find middle ground and ignore the more extremist sides of each "camp".



A Troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Alum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > FCPS should not have wasted money on renovating
> > South Lakes and preparing it to be a
> competitive
> > institution if it was going to be looked away
> and
> > shunned by narrow minded parents of neighboring
> > areas.
>
> What's going on over in Reston? Is there
> something in the water?
>
> Why do so many of them feel a need to insult the
> character and motivations of anyone who simply
> prefers their current school assignment over a
> switch to South Lakes?
>
> Maybe stagnant pondwater or decaying '70s
> townhouses give off some kind of toxic gas.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 06, 2008 07:44PM

Lake Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The best way to put a stop to criticisms is to
> stop doing it yourself, no?
>
> No one on either side of the fence -- the SL
> community or other areas - can control everyone
> who is advocating for "their side." Take that as
> a given. So insults hurled by anyone who is
> advocating on any side should NOT be imputed to
> the entire community. Many reasonable people are
> quiet because they don't want to get into a no-win
> situation.

Well Said Lake Fairfax. I agree with you in that many people are passionately for or against the RD. It is wrong to tell those of us who are opposed to this RD that we are wrong, and at the same time, the Pro RD supporters should be able to express your thoughts as well. This insults are unnecessary and serve no real purpose. We are all fighting for what we feel is the best for our children, and should not be faulted for this.
>
> You can't rebuke an entire community for the sake
> of the few who have offended you, and then in turn
> hurl insults yourself. Is this what this forum is
> about?
>
> Again -- stand on principle. The reality at this
> point is that redistricting wil go through in some
> form or another. People's lives will be impacted
> and for the sake of children, the more reasonable
> of us will have to find middle ground and ignore
> the more extremist sides of each "camp".

I do wonder how you can be so confident that this RD is going to go through in one way or another. I am under the impression, that the School Board has made no decisions on what if any changes in enrollments will be enacted. I really believe that there are imbalances in the schools, but I do not believe that the reasons for these imbalances have been fully understood by our school board.

I feel that an incredible injustice will be done for all, including the South Lakes students, if this forced boundary change is pushed through before a "real" understanding of the situation is made. Do you realize that under the current proposal for this RD, only 69 children from the Floris ES/ Rachel Carson MS will attend SL? They will represent less that 4% of the enrollment at SL. The Remaing 165 children from the Floris ES/Rachel Carson MS wll be only 5% of the Westfield student body?

Do you realize that there are only a total of 230 Children in Wesfield today who came from Rachel Carson MS out of a 3100 enrollment?

Do you realize that Floris will undero another boundary study this fall to address the Coppermine ES boundaries?

Do you realize that if this RD goes through as planned, Rachel Carson will split to Oakton, Westfield, South Lakes, Chantilly and a few to Herndon?

How does this pyramid compare the the neat Pyramids that exist in Herndon HS, South Lakes HS, Madison HS, Langley HS etc. Herndon takes great pride in the stable pyramid that they enjoy, and is it not reasonable that Floris should have the same?

For all of the talk of equal opportunity for ALL students, I see that this some hows excludes those of us with children in the Floris area.

I am not sure what the split is for Fox Mill/Oakton, but I am sure that again, the kids will be a small percent of the overall South Lakes Population.


I really believe that the Madison Island is getting a bad rap that is not deserved, and I think that they have presented a strong case for why they should not be moved.

I also believe that the Navy ES parents have a very strong case for why it does not make sense to move them to Oakton. I think anyone who looks on the map will agree.

Assuming that Madison and Navy are not to become part of the RD, this leaves Floris and Fox Mill.

You can well imagine the uproar that will be heard if Madison and Chantilly are pulled out of this study, by those that are left. It would negate 2 of the criteria that were used as a basis for this study, namely the elemination of Islands, and relief of the overcrowding at Chantilly. This is really too bad, because I believe that the parents in these schools have presented very valid cases for why they should be left status quo.

This would be very difficult for the SB to do, because the premis for the study and RD will be so diluted, that for the most part, none of the original objectives will really be met.

This begs the question of ..Have we come up with the best possible plan? I do not think we have, and I do not think we should contemplate a move of children until all of the fact are on the table.

Needless to say, but there is much discussion that still needs to occur in this decision, and I pray that our school board has the guts and common sense to look at this current proposal that is on the table, realize that it is a bad plan, and take the time to draw boundaries that support a real pyramid system for all of the schools in the West..
>
>
>
> A Troll Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Alum Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > FCPS should not have wasted money on
> renovating
> > > South Lakes and preparing it to be a
> > competitive
> > > institution if it was going to be looked away
> > and
> > > shunned by narrow minded parents of
> neighboring
> > > areas.
> >
> > What's going on over in Reston? Is there
> > something in the water?
> >
> > Why do so many of them feel a need to insult
> the
> > character and motivations of anyone who simply
> > prefers their current school assignment over a
> > switch to South Lakes?
> >
> > Maybe stagnant pondwater or decaying '70s
> > townhouses give off some kind of toxic gas.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: A Troll ()
Date: February 06, 2008 08:32PM

Lake Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The best way to put a stop to criticisms is to
> stop doing it yourself, no?

No, actually I wouldn't expect that to have much effect on this discussion.


> You can't rebuke an entire community

I didn't rebuke anyone, much less an entire community.

> for the sake
> of the few who have offended you,

No one has offended me. I am a relatively neutral observer to the catfight aspect of this. My only interest is that of a Fairfax County citizen and taxpayer.

> and then in turn
> hurl insults yourself.

I hurl no insults, I only poke fun.

> Is this what this forum is
> about?
>

This forum seems to be about two sides talking past each other, and neither learning anything.

> Again -- stand on principle.

There doesn't seem to be a principle involved here. Really more like an administrative detail.

> The reality at this
> point is that redistricting wil go through in some
> form or another.

You are probably right about that.

> People's lives will be impacted
> and for the sake of children, the more reasonable
> of us will have to find middle ground and ignore
> the more extremist sides of each "camp".
>

And that.

Lighten up, O humorless one!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lake Fairfax ()
Date: February 06, 2008 08:41PM

Floris Parent,

I don't support many things that the School Board has done. I don't support the manner in which Stu Gibson has spurned your community or conducts himself in a boorish, insulting manner. I think you are right that many things about the process are unfair. I also think the South Lakes community is right that something needs to be done to address the low enrollment at the school.

My comment that redistricting will go through doesn't address any of the above points. It is simply a political reality. The school board is elected for FOUR long years. They are at the very beginning of their term. With the exception of the at-large candidates, they have nothing to lose by voting in favor of redistricting. If they don't redistrict, they're going to have to stare down the Board of Supervisors and explain why they spent so much money. Stu Gibson is very vulnerable with his illegal actions, but the recall petition won't be filed until after redistricting is complete. That's when the real fun begins.

The other unfortunate reality we all have to face is that our School Board by and large is weak. They don't challenge staff. In fact, they don't challenge anything. A group think prevails on the Board. So while it would be fine and wonderful to think that they can reform the redistricting process, this School Board has proven itself to be unable to reform ANYTHING. So bottom line -- garbage in, garbage out. Don't expect a board as weak as this one to be able to reform itself. I'm not happy about it -- just calling it like it is. Until parents of current FCPS students who really understand what is going on are willing to make the sacrifices to run for School Board, and do it on behalf of your children and theirs, instead of attracting those with budding political careers or enjoy ego-driven pontificiations, don't expect anything different.


Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lake Fairfax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The best way to put a stop to criticisms is to
> > stop doing it yourself, no?
> >
> > No one on either side of the fence -- the SL
> > community or other areas - can control everyone
> > who is advocating for "their side." Take that
> as
> > a given. So insults hurled by anyone who is
> > advocating on any side should NOT be imputed to
> > the entire community. Many reasonable people
> are
> > quiet because they don't want to get into a
> no-win
> > situation.
>
> Well Said Lake Fairfax. I agree with you in that
> many people are passionately for or against the
> RD. It is wrong to tell those of us who are
> opposed to this RD that we are wrong, and at the
> same time, the Pro RD supporters should be able to
> express your thoughts as well. This insults are
> unnecessary and serve no real purpose. We are all
> fighting for what we feel is the best for our
> children, and should not be faulted for this.
> >
> > You can't rebuke an entire community for the
> sake
> > of the few who have offended you, and then in
> turn
> > hurl insults yourself. Is this what this forum
> is
> > about?
> >
> > Again -- stand on principle. The reality at
> this
> > point is that redistricting wil go through in
> some
> > form or another. People's lives will be
> impacted
> > and for the sake of children, the more
> reasonable
> > of us will have to find middle ground and
> ignore
> > the more extremist sides of each "camp".
>
> I do wonder how you can be so confident that this
> RD is going to go through in one way or another. I
> am under the impression, that the School Board has
> made no decisions on what if any changes in
> enrollments will be enacted. I really believe that
> there are imbalances in the schools, but I do not
> believe that the reasons for these imbalances have
> been fully understood by our school board.
>
> I feel that an incredible injustice will be done
> for all, including the South Lakes students, if
> this forced boundary change is pushed through
> before a "real" understanding of the situation is
> made. Do you realize that under the current
> proposal for this RD, only 69 children from the
> Floris ES/ Rachel Carson MS will attend SL? They
> will represent less that 4% of the enrollment at
> SL. The Remaing 165 children from the Floris
> ES/Rachel Carson MS wll be only 5% of the
> Westfield student body?
>
> Do you realize that there are only a total of 230
> Children in Wesfield today who came from Rachel
> Carson MS out of a 3100 enrollment?
>
> Do you realize that Floris will undero another
> boundary study this fall to address the Coppermine
> ES boundaries?
>
> Do you realize that if this RD goes through as
> planned, Rachel Carson will split to Oakton,
> Westfield, South Lakes, Chantilly and a few to
> Herndon?
>
> How does this pyramid compare the the neat
> Pyramids that exist in Herndon HS, South Lakes HS,
> Madison HS, Langley HS etc. Herndon takes great
> pride in the stable pyramid that they enjoy, and
> is it not reasonable that Floris should have the
> same?
>
> For all of the talk of equal opportunity for ALL
> students, I see that this some hows excludes those
> of us with children in the Floris area.
>
> I am not sure what the split is for Fox
> Mill/Oakton, but I am sure that again, the kids
> will be a small percent of the overall South Lakes
> Population.
>
>
> I really believe that the Madison Island is
> getting a bad rap that is not deserved, and I
> think that they have presented a strong case for
> why they should not be moved.
>
> I also believe that the Navy ES parents have a
> very strong case for why it does not make sense to
> move them to Oakton. I think anyone who looks on
> the map will agree.
>
> Assuming that Madison and Navy are not to become
> part of the RD, this leaves Floris and Fox Mill.
>
> You can well imagine the uproar that will be heard
> if Madison and Chantilly are pulled out of this
> study, by those that are left. It would negate 2
> of the criteria that were used as a basis for this
> study, namely the elemination of Islands, and
> relief of the overcrowding at Chantilly. This is
> really too bad, because I believe that the parents
> in these schools have presented very valid cases
> for why they should be left status quo.
>
> This would be very difficult for the SB to do,
> because the premis for the study and RD will be so
> diluted, that for the most part, none of the
> original objectives will really be met.
>
> This begs the question of ..Have we come up with
> the best possible plan? I do not think we have,
> and I do not think we should contemplate a move of
> children until all of the fact are on the table.
>
> Needless to say, but there is much discussion that
> still needs to occur in this decision, and I pray
> that our school board has the guts and common
> sense to look at this current proposal that is on
> the table, realize that it is a bad plan, and take
> the time to draw boundaries that support a real
> pyramid system for all of the schools in the
> West..
> >
> >
> >
> > A Troll Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > South Lakes Alum Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > >
> > > > FCPS should not have wasted money on
> > renovating
> > > > South Lakes and preparing it to be a
> > > competitive
> > > > institution if it was going to be looked
> away
> > > and
> > > > shunned by narrow minded parents of
> > neighboring
> > > > areas.
> > >
> > > What's going on over in Reston? Is there
> > > something in the water?
> > >
> > > Why do so many of them feel a need to insult
> > the
> > > character and motivations of anyone who
> simply
> > > prefers their current school assignment over
> a
> > > switch to South Lakes?
> > >
> > > Maybe stagnant pondwater or decaying '70s
> > > townhouses give off some kind of toxic gas.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Anonymous ()
Date: February 06, 2008 09:01PM

Lake Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent,
>
> I don't support many things that the School Board
> has done. I don't support the manner in which Stu
> Gibson has spurned your community or conducts
> himself in a boorish, insulting manner. I think
> you are right that many things about the process
> are unfair. I also think the South Lakes
> community is right that something needs to be done
> to address the low enrollment at the school.
>
> My comment that redistricting will go through
> doesn't address any of the above points. It is
> simply a political reality. The school board is
> elected for FOUR long years. They are at the very
> beginning of their term. With the exception of
> the at-large candidates, they have nothing to lose
> by voting in favor of redistricting. If they
> don't redistrict, they're going to have to stare
> down the Board of Supervisors and explain why they
> spent so much money. Stu Gibson is very
> vulnerable with his illegal actions, but the
> recall petition won't be filed until after
> redistricting is complete. That's when the real
> fun begins.
>
> The other unfortunate reality we all have to face
> is that our School Board by and large is weak.
> They don't challenge staff. In fact, they don't
> challenge anything. A group think prevails on
> the Board. So while it would be fine and
> wonderful to think that they can reform the
> redistricting process, this School Board has
> proven itself to be unable to reform ANYTHING. So
> bottom line -- garbage in, garbage out. Don't
> expect a board as weak as this one to be able to
> reform itself. I'm not happy about it -- just
> calling it like it is. Until parents of current
> FCPS students who really understand what is going
> on are willing to make the sacrifices to run for
> School Board, and do it on behalf of your children
> and theirs, instead of attracting those with
> budding political careers or enjoy ego-driven
> pontificiations, don't expect anything different.
>
>
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lake Fairfax Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The best way to put a stop to criticisms is
> to
> > > stop doing it yourself, no?
> > >
> > > No one on either side of the fence -- the SL
> > > community or other areas - can control
> everyone
> > > who is advocating for "their side." Take
> that
> > as
> > > a given. So insults hurled by anyone who is
> > > advocating on any side should NOT be imputed
> to
> > > the entire community. Many reasonable people
> > are
> > > quiet because they don't want to get into a
> > no-win
> > > situation.
> >
> > Well Said Lake Fairfax. I agree with you in
> that
> > many people are passionately for or against the
> > RD. It is wrong to tell those of us who are
> > opposed to this RD that we are wrong, and at
> the
> > same time, the Pro RD supporters should be able
> to
> > express your thoughts as well. This insults are
> > unnecessary and serve no real purpose. We are
> all
> > fighting for what we feel is the best for our
> > children, and should not be faulted for this.
> > >
> > > You can't rebuke an entire community for the
> > sake
> > > of the few who have offended you, and then in
> > turn
> > > hurl insults yourself. Is this what this
> forum
> > is
> > > about?
> > >
> > > Again -- stand on principle. The reality at
> > this
> > > point is that redistricting wil go through in
> > some
> > > form or another. People's lives will be
> > impacted
> > > and for the sake of children, the more
> > reasonable
> > > of us will have to find middle ground and
> > ignore
> > > the more extremist sides of each "camp".
> >
> > I do wonder how you can be so confident that
> this
> > RD is going to go through in one way or another.
> I
> > am under the impression, that the School Board
> has
> > made no decisions on what if any changes in
> > enrollments will be enacted. I really believe
> that
> > there are imbalances in the schools, but I do
> not
> > believe that the reasons for these imbalances
> have
> > been fully understood by our school board.
> >
> > I feel that an incredible injustice will be
> done
> > for all, including the South Lakes students, if
> > this forced boundary change is pushed through
> > before a "real" understanding of the situation
> is
> > made. Do you realize that under the current
> > proposal for this RD, only 69 children from the
> > Floris ES/ Rachel Carson MS will attend SL?
> They
> > will represent less that 4% of the enrollment
> at
> > SL. The Remaing 165 children from the Floris
> > ES/Rachel Carson MS wll be only 5% of the
> > Westfield student body?
> >
> > Do you realize that there are only a total of
> 230
> > Children in Wesfield today who came from Rachel
> > Carson MS out of a 3100 enrollment?
> >
> > Do you realize that Floris will undero another
> > boundary study this fall to address the
> Coppermine
> > ES boundaries?
> >
> > Do you realize that if this RD goes through as
> > planned, Rachel Carson will split to Oakton,
> > Westfield, South Lakes, Chantilly and a few to
> > Herndon?
> >
> > How does this pyramid compare the the neat
> > Pyramids that exist in Herndon HS, South Lakes
> HS,
> > Madison HS, Langley HS etc. Herndon takes great
> > pride in the stable pyramid that they enjoy,
> and
> > is it not reasonable that Floris should have
> the
> > same?
> >
> > For all of the talk of equal opportunity for
> ALL
> > students, I see that this some hows excludes
> those
> > of us with children in the Floris area.
> >
> > I am not sure what the split is for Fox
> > Mill/Oakton, but I am sure that again, the kids
> > will be a small percent of the overall South
> Lakes
> > Population.
> >
> >
> > I really believe that the Madison Island is
> > getting a bad rap that is not deserved, and I
> > think that they have presented a strong case
> for
> > why they should not be moved.
> >
> > I also believe that the Navy ES parents have a
> > very strong case for why it does not make sense
> to
> > move them to Oakton. I think anyone who looks
> on
> > the map will agree.
> >
> > Assuming that Madison and Navy are not to
> become
> > part of the RD, this leaves Floris and Fox
> Mill.
> >
> > You can well imagine the uproar that will be
> heard
> > if Madison and Chantilly are pulled out of this
> > study, by those that are left. It would negate
> 2
> > of the criteria that were used as a basis for
> this
> > study, namely the elemination of Islands, and
> > relief of the overcrowding at Chantilly. This
> is
> > really too bad, because I believe that the
> parents
> > in these schools have presented very valid
> cases
> > for why they should be left status quo.
> >
> > This would be very difficult for the SB to do,
> > because the premis for the study and RD will be
> so
> > diluted, that for the most part, none of the
> > original objectives will really be met.
> >
> > This begs the question of ..Have we come up
> with
> > the best possible plan? I do not think we have,
> > and I do not think we should contemplate a move
> of
> > children until all of the fact are on the
> table.
> >
> > Needless to say, but there is much discussion
> that
> > still needs to occur in this decision, and I
> pray
> > that our school board has the guts and common
> > sense to look at this current proposal that is
> on
> > the table, realize that it is a bad plan, and
> take
> > the time to draw boundaries that support a real
> > pyramid system for all of the schools in the
> > West..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A Troll Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > South Lakes Alum Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > >
> > > > > FCPS should not have wasted money on
> > > renovating
> > > > > South Lakes and preparing it to be a
> > > > competitive
> > > > > institution if it was going to be looked
> > away
> > > > and
> > > > > shunned by narrow minded parents of
> > > neighboring
> > > > > areas.
> > > >
> > > > What's going on over in Reston? Is there
> > > > something in the water?
> > > >
> > > > Why do so many of them feel a need to
> insult
> > > the
> > > > character and motivations of anyone who
> > simply
> > > > prefers their current school assignment
> over
> > a
> > > > switch to South Lakes?
> > > >
> > > > Maybe stagnant pondwater or decaying '70s
> > > > townhouses give off some kind of toxic gas.

The only way to stop FCPS is to vote no to the bonds. The incompetance and arrogance started long before this issue and will continue long after.

The only power the school board has is to hire or fire Jack Dale. Stu made sure he got a new 3 year contract one year into his old one.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lake Braddock ()
Date: February 06, 2008 09:09PM

The removal petition will be filed with the Circuit Court within the next 4-5 weeks.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: whyWait ()
Date: February 06, 2008 10:52PM

Lake Braddock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The removal petition will be filed with the
> Circuit Court within the next 4-5 weeks.


Why wait for 4 weeks? Why not now?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 07, 2008 12:17AM

Lake Fairfax Wrote:
> a... I also think the South Lakes
> community is right that something needs to be done
> to address the low enrollment at the school....
>
> ... If they
> don't redistrict, they're going to have to stare
> down the Board of Supervisors and explain why they
> spent so much money. ...
---------
Why?
Why does the low enrollment need to be addressed?
Falls Church and Marshall have even fewer students and Stuart and Hayfield are also under 1600.

Because of "demographics"? Lee, West Potomac, Hayfield, Annandale, Falls Church, Stuart, and Mount Vernon all have higher percentages of FRM. [And just in case you are hinting about race, Hayfield, Lee, Annandale, Falls Church, West Potomac, Edison, Stuart, and Mount Vernon all have higher percentages of Black and Hispanic students.]

If no changes are made, projections for 2012 are for more empty seats at Falls Church and Mt Vernon than at South Lakes.

Hmmm. Falls Church shows up in every category. I have not heard about a pending redistricting for them. Have you?

And what do you mean by "why they spent so much money"? Do you mean a school should be filled because it has been renovated? Hayfield was just renovated, but as of 30 Sep 2007 only 1582 students were there, with space for 2125.

Mt Vernon was renovated fairly recently as well. It is a beautiful building with 792 empty seats - more than at South Lakes.

In FCPS completing a renovation has NEVER been a reason to redistrict.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:29AM

It would appear that Mrs. Kory doesn't want Falls church redistricted, and Mr. Storck says that Mt Vernon is too far from anyplace else to move more students to the school. Something like that.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:33AM

Why wait on the recall petition? Wouldn't it be better to file it before the vote?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 07, 2008 07:12AM

Forum Reader Wrote:

>
> In FCPS completing a renovation has NEVER been a
> reason to redistrict.


Exactly! Now they came up with a new excuse to redistrict..the renovation? South Lakes has been underenrolled for a long time and was given a renovation to nclude expanding its capacity thus the reason to must redistrict without really addressing the issues of their enrollment. Also, people have talked about having choices of schools. The SL community was given the choice to pick certain communities which ought to be redistricted to their school while these families from the affected communities choices are taken away what would be best for their children's education. How can we be fair about all of this?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 07, 2008 07:59AM

Baffled Wrote:
> ... South Lakes has been
> underenrolled for a long time and was given a
> renovation to nclude expanding its capacity ...

Minor detail: Despite the addition, the CIP shows the renovation REDUCED the capacity of South Lakes from 2150 to 2100. (No, I can't explain it!)

Remember how one justification for this redistricting is that high schools should hold 2,000 students, and thus recently built Westfield with its even newer addition is now "too big"?

The same School Board just allocated $2 million in BRAC planning funds to begin planning for a South County-area middle school. If 2,500 seat South County becomes a high school only, FCPS will violate its newly-rediscovered 2,000 seat policy.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ? ()
Date: February 07, 2008 08:47AM

How can a SCMS be justified when there is space at Lake Braddock?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Parent of Snot Nosed Brats ()
Date: February 07, 2008 08:52AM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> > ... South Lakes has been
> > underenrolled for a long time and was given a
> > renovation to nclude expanding its capacity ...
>
> Minor detail: Despite the addition, the CIP shows
> the renovation REDUCED the capacity of South Lakes
> from 2150 to 2100. (No, I can't explain it!)
>
> Remember how one justification for this
> redistricting is that high schools should hold
> 2,000 students, and thus recently built Westfield
> with its even newer addition is now "too big"?
>
> The same School Board just allocated $2 million in
> BRAC planning funds to begin planning for a South
> County-area middle school. If 2,500 seat South
> County becomes a high school only, FCPS will
> violate its newly-rediscovered 2,000 seat policy.

That policy apprently only applies to South Lakes because when the enrollments changed and could no longer justify RD they had to come up with something

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 07, 2008 09:40AM

Thanks Forum Reader for clarifying about the capacity/renovation for SL. That is right..I remember now that through the renovation the capacity would be reduced slightly.

Given with what has all been said regarding SCSS and LBSS and having a new SCMS to avoid redistricting while here SL has been requesting a redistricting still baffles me. Anybody notice that this process started 2 years ago..why did FCPS publish 4 strange scenarios when they knew #5 was parallel with what SL had in mind 2 years ago? Wouldn't that be lying to the public?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 10:27AM

If Bradsher wants a new MS for SC to avoid redistricting, wouldnt it be smart of her to vote against this redistricting?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 07, 2008 01:12PM

If you ask me, the representation on the school board for Floris and Fox Mill sucks. Sure enough Stu would not commit anything before the elections. After the elections, he is ready to throw these communities under the bus. And since when did this concept of East Floris and South/West Floris emerge? For god's sake this is such a small section, please don't further divide it. If this plan is approved, I will just think that the board is a puppet under Stu. Stork tries to immitate Lincon, lets see how he votes.
Manoj

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Anonymous ()
Date: February 07, 2008 01:24PM

Honest Abe will vote for the RD, he loves diversity of all kinds!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 07, 2008 01:44PM

Lets face it. If he was really honest, he would have pulled the rug out of this sham study a while ago. After all he is the chairman right!!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 07, 2008 01:51PM

Has this whole process been honest? I don't see it being honest. "Honest Abe" Storck do not want to move anybody to his Mount Vernon HS district because it is too far for anybody to go to MV Hs..is this correct? That is what I heard about him.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Truthteller ()
Date: February 07, 2008 02:02PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has this whole process been honest? I don't see
> it being honest. "Honest Abe" Storck do not want
> to move anybody to his Mount Vernon HS district
> because it is too far for anybody to go to MV
> Hs..is this correct? That is what I heard about
> him.


The boundary process hasn't been honest for years. They start with what they want and then fit the rules and process to obtain the desired outcome.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 02:32PM

Storck is 100% going to support redistricting. He doesnt care if the study was bogus. You would think that he has had a lobotomy since South County. It is as if it never happened.

Its only money after all and it isnt his money. His similarity to Abe Lincoln begins and ends with the beard. The comparison must cause Abe to roll over in his grave.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 07, 2008 02:44PM

We will see on Feb 28th. One thing is sure, this battle will not end of Feb 28th. It is unfortunate, but lawsuits are going to fly left and right in front of the FCPS school board.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 02:51PM

FCPS while cutting the teachers raises have increased their legal fees line item by more than 100% to more than 3 million dollars. The last year of recorded legal fees was only $1.3 million.

Maybe they know how pissed off the natives are getting. Still they dont care. Just eliminate some teachers and a couple of programs for the needie and Wahlah! You can afford to keep pissing off the public.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:21PM

question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS while cutting the teachers raises have
> increased their legal fees line item by more than
> 100% to more than 3 million dollars. The last
> year of recorded legal fees was only $1.3 million.
>
>
> Maybe they know how pissed off the natives are
> getting. Still they dont care. Just eliminate
> some teachers and a couple of programs for the
> needie and Wahlah! You can afford to keep pissing
> off the public.

Where can we find the legal fees info from the proposed budget?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:26PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:29PM

correction page 190 of budget

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:40PM

They post 'actual' expenses that are 2 years old when they are projecting for a new budget. Then they increase or decrease each line item based on last years budget not last years 'actual'. So FCPS can put in a line item for say legal fees, the 'actual' annual expenses for legal fees have never exceeded $1.6 million but last year they get a budget approved for $3.65, we still dont know what the 'actual' number is for last year, now they project $3.3 million for this year and they are heros for taking a deep cut in their budget.

Its beautiful. Who wants to read all of that crap anyhow? So this year they are cutting away at last years budget numbers while really they have increased the hell out of the last known 'actuals'.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:43PM

question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> correction page 190 of budget

Ok thanks..I almost choked on my Pepsi when I read this statement..page 26 had a FCPS statement saying "FCPS Spends Money Wisely"..now I probably need more coffe, but where from the proposed budget does it show a raised amount of legal fees?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 03:48PM

check the legal fees line item on page 190 of the budget.

05 1.13 Actual
06 1.68 Actual
07 1.69 Actual
08 3.621 Budgeted No Actual yet
09 3.387 Proposed

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: beyah ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:03PM

what would help would be to see the budgeted amount for all the years. you cant compare apples to oranges.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:06PM

In just four item groupings from the budget there was over $10 million dollars increase in 2009's proposed budget from 2007 actual expenses. Hardly the extreme cuts we have heard about.

Is this perhaps the most corrupt arm of local government? Is FCPS the cash cow of Fairfax county? Dont we all vote yes yes yes when they need a little more money ? Not anymore.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:30PM

beyah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what would help would be to see the budgeted
> amount for all the years. you cant compare apples
> to oranges.
------------
Page 326:
Contracted services, LEGAL FEES, 04-06 actual, 07 estimated, and 08 budgeted:
$ 1,214,341
$ 1,133,915
$ 1,685,956
$ 1,934,864
$ 3,468,273$

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:33PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has this whole process been honest? I don't see
> it being honest. "Honest Abe" Storck do not want
> to move anybody to his Mount Vernon HS district
> because it is too far for anybody to go to MV
> Hs..is this correct? That is what I heard about
> him.

It's so bogus that Whitman the middle school for Mount Vernon is smaller than Sandburg the middle school for West Potomac. Mount Vernon is larger than West Potomac. Even more snarfy is Whitman is not in it's own attendance area. Change some lines on the map.

All Storck and Co care about is a new South County middle School. Instruction? Nope. The disabled? No.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:34PM

question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In just four item groupings from the budget there
> was over $10 million dollars increase in 2009's
> proposed budget from 2007 actual expenses. Hardly
> the extreme cuts we have heard about.
>
> Is this perhaps the most corrupt arm of local
> government? Is FCPS the cash cow of Fairfax
> county? Dont we all vote yes yes yes when they
> need a little more money ? Not anymore.

What were they and what were the page numbers?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: beyah ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:36PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> beyah Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what would help would be to see the budgeted
> > amount for all the years. you cant compare
> apples
> > to oranges.
> ------------
> Page 326:
> Contracted services, LEGAL FEES, 04-06 actual, 07
> estimated, and 08 budgeted:
> $ 1,214,341
> $ 1,133,915
> $ 1,685,956
> $ 1,934,864
> $ 3,468,273$


No those are the same numbers as before. How do you know that they arent budgeting more than they are actually spending. You need to look at the same type of number for each year to be able to compare them.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:43PM

question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Bradsher wants a new MS for SC to avoid
> redistricting, wouldnt it be smart of her to vote
> against this redistricting?

No-because South County is closer to her crew than Lake Braddock. Her crew is closer to Lake Braddock than lots of people who go to Lake Braddock.

Gibson was one of the few members to even ask questions on the new CIP. Was he restraining himself ? - guess he had to for his SL's votes but that CIP maneuver did not help his constituents since projects look likely to be bumped and it will increase costs therefore property taxes. FYI I think South Lakes should be used but not over stuffed, plus I don't like Option 5 or the SL's PTA committee's choice to be in cahoots with Herndon. Westfield can take a hike on getting that addition then trying to dump other schools. What are they going to put in there?

Whose idea was that?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:47PM

question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Bradsher wants a new MS for SC to avoid
> redistricting, wouldnt it be smart of her to vote
> against this redistricting?

No. She needs to support Stu on what he wants for his school so that he will support her on what she wants. That's how politics works, you support me on my thing, I'll vote with you on what you want.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 07, 2008 04:53PM

beyah Wrote:
> No those are the same numbers as before. How do
> you know that they arent budgeting more than they
> are actually spending. You need to look at the
> same type of number for each year to be able to
> compare them.

Sorry, I did not explain what I posted. "question" posted the SY 09 proposed budget; I gave you older data from the 08 "approved" numbers for comparison.

O7 was estimated to be $1,934,864; actual was 1.69

08 was first budgeted to be $ 3,468,273; this has now been upgraded to $3.621M

[Am I making sense yet?]

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LBSS ()
Date: February 07, 2008 05:32PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If Bradsher wants a new MS for SC to avoid
> > redistricting, wouldnt it be smart of her to
> vote
> > against this redistricting?
>
> No. She needs to support Stu on what he wants for
> his school so that he will support her on what she
> wants. That's how politics works, you support me
> on my thing, I'll vote with you on what you want.

No Neen...Stu took to her pretty hard for the Middle school at the CIP hearing so I don't think he is looking for votes there

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 05:59PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets face it. If he was really honest, he would
> have pulled the rug out of this sham study a while
> ago. After all he is the chairman right!!

The chairman conducts the meetings but he has no more power than any other school board member. He can't stop a redistricting in any district other than the one he represents. Nor would he.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 06:03PM

LBSS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > question Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If Bradsher wants a new MS for SC to avoid
> > > redistricting, wouldnt it be smart of her to
> > vote
> > > against this redistricting?
> >
> > No. She needs to support Stu on what he wants
> for
> > his school so that he will support her on what
> she
> > wants. That's how politics works, you support
> me
> > on my thing, I'll vote with you on what you
> want.
>
> No Neen...Stu took to her pretty hard for the
> Middle school at the CIP hearing so I don't think
> he is looking for votes there

It's an act. He's pretending to be 'responsible'. Stu already voted for her new high school and he knows that she'll vote for his redistricting. When the time comes, she'll have the votes for her new middle school. Although they might allow some members to vote against it, for appearances sake, knowing that they have the necessary 7 votes to pass it. UNLESS Stu has now decided that he no longer likes Liz because she is, after all, a republican and he has to hate all republicans, for the good of the liberal agenda. If that's the case, Liz and her middle school are screwed. If she votes for Stu's redistricting, we can assume that she expects him to return the favor.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 06:51PM

sorry its tax season!

Dont underestimate the person that Bradsher is. Maybe I am crazy or maybe its those blue/green eyes of hers but I am a believer. Stu disgusts her the same way he does most of the SBs.

Okay here is the deal Beyah or SL person whoever you are... You do not use budget numbers to predict future budget numbers. Try that if you have shareholders why dont you? You use previous actuals as your historical basis for future projections.

I am willing to be that FCPS has never had so many people from various professions looking at them under a microscope. Well truth be told it doesnt take a microscope, binoculars would do.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: question ()
Date: February 07, 2008 07:06PM

Beyah if you want to see a comparison between ones years budget and the next you really need to do the research yourself. I already have but frankly I refuse to make it easy on you.

You go to FCPS website. Pull budgets for 2007-2008-2009 go to budget details. Relatively simple but exporting the data to Excel is a bit of a pain in the ass. You can do it, you may have the time. Please feel free to publish when you get it,thus saving Stu the effort. When he gets back from educating the other SBms from around the Commonwealth (God Help Us all) he will be thrilled to see your compilation.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 07, 2008 07:24PM

In case you havent seen the FCPS has posted two new documents supporting the 2/11 work session. One is a response to the CAPS information presented on exodus at South Lakes. The second is ma "handbook" comparing the AP and IB programs, which appears to be developed in response to questions posed by the community.

The information posted does not agree that there is a student exodus at SL nor that IB is in any way an inferior program compared with AP.



http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LBSS ()
Date: February 07, 2008 07:36PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LBSS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > question Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > If Bradsher wants a new MS for SC to avoid
> > > > redistricting, wouldnt it be smart of her
> to
> > > vote
> > > > against this redistricting?
> > >
> > > No. She needs to support Stu on what he
> wants
> > for
> > > his school so that he will support her on
> what
> > she
> > > wants. That's how politics works, you
> support
> > me
> > > on my thing, I'll vote with you on what you
> > want.
> >
> > No Neen...Stu took to her pretty hard for the
> > Middle school at the CIP hearing so I don't
> think
> > he is looking for votes there
>
> It's an act. He's pretending to be 'responsible'.
> Stu already voted for her new high school and he
> knows that she'll vote for his redistricting.
> When the time comes, she'll have the votes for her
> new middle school. Although they might allow some
> members to vote against it, for appearances sake,
> knowing that they have the necessary 7 votes to
> pass it. UNLESS Stu has now decided that he no
> longer likes Liz because she is, after all, a
> republican and he has to hate all republicans, for
> the good of the liberal agenda. If that's the
> case, Liz and her middle school are screwed. If
> she votes for Stu's redistricting, we can assume
> that she expects him to return the favor.

It is no act. He voted for the the first South County only after everything was lined up and the vote was a given. If it isn't in his District he has challenged it with his litigious style and he has gone out of his way to oppose Glasgow, Woodson renovation and middle school. In his District he builds a new elementary school that nobody wants or needs and has a high school in the wings. He shows no responsibility for his District

I think he has pissed off more Dems than Republicans, and his bulling tactics are starting to catch up with him with Hone and Raney not particularly fond of him.

But you know him better than I

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: joe ()
Date: February 07, 2008 07:38PM

meh



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2008 09:50PM by joe.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: GOP ()
Date: February 07, 2008 07:40PM

Good Republicans are supposed to be fiscally responsible. It is not fiscally reponsible to build an building that is not needed when subdivisions can be redistricted to adjacent school pyramids. Liz Bradsher is no Republican.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 07, 2008 08:16PM

GOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good Republicans are supposed to be fiscally
> responsible. It is not fiscally reponsible to
> build an building that is not needed when
> subdivisions can be redistricted to adjacent
> school pyramids. Liz Bradsher is no Republican.


It is probably easier to redistrict two high schools with similar programs and both are AP based as opposed to AP based high schools to an IB high school. LBSS and SCSS are AP based, is that right?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled is crazy ()
Date: February 07, 2008 09:39PM

I'm not having a problem posting here, what are you taliking about?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SB_disinformation_campaign ()
Date: February 07, 2008 10:03PM

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In case you havent seen the FCPS has posted two
> new documents supporting the 2/11 work session.
> One is a response to the CAPS information
> presented on exodus at South Lakes. The second is
> ma "handbook" comparing the AP and IB programs,
> which appears to be developed in response to
> questions posed by the community.
>
> The information posted does not agree that there
> is a student exodus at SL nor that IB is in any
> way an inferior program compared with AP.
>
>
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
> blic?OpenFrameSet


How low they stoop to spread such misinformation to support their personal political agendas!!! Shame on them trying to fool the public into believing IB is comparable to AP in the US

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 07, 2008 10:55PM

SB_disinformation_campaign Wrote:
> ... > Shame on them trying to fool the public into
> believing IB is comparable to AP in the US

----
It does seem a bit imbalanced to include a sixteen-page booklet published by IB in an FCPS-produced "Advanced Placement And International Baccalaureate Fact Book," yet include nothing from the College Board about AP.

This except will be of interest to some on this thread:
"FCPS offers students the opportunity to apply for a student transfer to the nearest high school offering the program that is not at their base school. The information for requesting a student transfer is available on the FCPS website; no requests will be taken for students affected by the possible boundary change until the board makes a final decision. Students who make the request to change to an IB or AP program not offered at their base school are required to attend the school closest to the base school or their home dependent upon available space. If space is not available, they may attend the next closest school."

FCPS addresses some of the added expense for IB:
"The IBO charges a registration fee of $123 for each IB student and an additional $84 for each examination. Each school also pays an annual fee of $8850. We have a contract with the College Board for $74 for each [AP] examination. The cost of professional, required training for IB and AP teachers is approximately the same when teachers attend workshops outside the county; most AP workshops are $600 per teacher and IB workshops are $550. Fairfax County does save some money by running our own AP Summer Institute to train approximately 250 FCPS AP teachers (the cost is about $450, but we also save travel expenses)."

[FCPS forgot to mention it makes a profit from teaching the AP Teacher courses because the "Registration fee for non-Fairfax County teachers is $600." http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OHSICS/advepd/api.htm ]

FCPS also forgot to mention that "University recognition of IB and AP examinations has become very equitable in the last few years" generally applies to High Level, not Standard Level, courses. However,the charts on pages 19-21, indicate credit given by UVA, VA Tech, George Mason, MIT, and William & Mary. Of the five, only George Mason is shown is giving a few credits for three SL courses.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 11:23PM

Truthteller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> The boundary process hasn't been honest for years.
> They start with what they want and then fit the
> rules and process to obtain the desired outcome.

It didn't work very well this time, did it? I doubt they will try to do it this way again.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 11:31PM

LBSS Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> It is no act. He voted for the the first South
> County only after everything was lined up and the
> vote was a given. If it isn't in his District he
> has challenged it with his litigious style and he
> has gone out of his way to oppose Glasgow, Woodson
> renovation and middle school. In his District he
> builds a new elementary school that nobody wants
> or needs and has a high school in the wings. He
> shows no responsibility for his District
>
> I think he has pissed off more Dems than
> Republicans, and his bulling tactics are starting
> to catch up with him with Hone and Raney not
> particularly fond of him.

I keep hearing similar things, but I've yet to see any evidence of it. When someone (other than Hone and Raney) vote against something Stu wants, then I'll believe that he has pissed off other democrats. Of course there is some evidence of that since they won't let him be chair again.

When Stu voted to delay renovation on Woodson, and Glassgow, didn't that vote also delay the renovation of his own, South Lakes? Or am I misremembering?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2008 11:34PM by Neen.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 11:33PM

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In case you havent seen the FCPS has posted two
> new documents supporting the 2/11 work session.
> One is a response to the CAPS information
> presented on exodus at South Lakes. The second is
> ma "handbook" comparing the AP and IB programs,
> which appears to be developed in response to
> questions posed by the community.
>
> The information posted does not agree that there
> is a student exodus at SL nor that IB is in any
> way an inferior program compared with AP.
>
>
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
> blic?OpenFrameSet

Good grief. Could they be more obvious? It will not help to persuade people to go to South Lakes. It's way too little and way too late.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 07, 2008 11:39PM

taxpayer Wrote:

Even more snarfy is Whitman is
> not in it's own attendance area. Change some
> lines on the map.
>
> All Storck and Co care about is a new South County
> middle School. Instruction? Nope. The disabled?
> No.

Thoreau middle school sits in Kilmer district. All the homes that surround Thoreau, on three sides, are in Kilmer district. Across the street is Thoreau district, but Kilmer sits in a neighborhood that feeds to Kilmer.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Mr E ()
Date: February 07, 2008 11:56PM

If Redistricting is going to happen it should happen to fix problems with the system and not create any new ones. So the Split feeders should be fixed first. There should be no split feeders. So for example all of the graduating class from an elementary school should all move to the same middle school, and then all of the graduating students from that middle school should move to the same high school. It is pretty bad on FCPS that they make it look like that is the case on paper with the Pyramids, one would have to look at multiple maps and do some extra checking to figure out that there are split feeders. Then if the school system is serious about cutting commute times, Langley would have to be looked at. The system also needs to actually sit down in private with the Madison "Island " parents. I mean it does look like it is just the way the maps are drawn as when look at local.live.com you can see it is not much seperating them from the rest of the Madison area, certainly no houses. They are after all in Vienna, not Reston, so it would be hard for those kids to go to school in Reston and spend more of their time in Vienna (i.e. youth sports, cub scounts, girl scouts) and not have acess to Reston pools and such.

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