HomeFairfax General ForumArrest/Ticket SearchWiki newPictures/VideosChatArticlesLinksAbout
Fairfax County General :  Fairfax Underground fairfax underground logo
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Pages: PreviousFirst...949596979899100101102103104...LastNext
Current Page: 99 of 189
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Cynic ()
Date: February 10, 2008 08:57AM

What Witness said about Bradsher's rude behavior doesn't surprise me a bit. You should have heard the comments regarding people on the wrong side of the tracks (ie I-95) during the very first SCSS boundary studies in 04-05.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AnotherWitness ()
Date: February 10, 2008 09:07AM

WITNESS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WITNESS Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE
> > > SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING MEETING.
> > >
> > > She confronted the speaker in the outside
> lobby
> > > after his presentation which was critical of
> > the
> > > school boards performance over the last ten
> > > years.
> > >
> > > She raised her voice and waved her finger in
> > his
> > > face and then made disparaging remarks about
> > his
> > > nationality and his ethnic background.
> > >
> > > All this was done as the speaker was walking
> > away
> > > from her and several people witness her
> attack.
> > >
> > > This was a very unprofessional way that this
> > > school board member acted. She should not be
> a
> > > school board member if she is not able to
> take
> > > criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.\
> >
> > REALLY??? Where any press people present? If
> > that happened as you have stated, she should
> not
> > be on the school board. We cannot have public
> > officials insulting people, and certainly not
> > insulting ethnicity! That's horrible.
>
>
> All of the above happened. There were several
> FairFaxCaps people present and they also witnessed
> the attack.

I was present and it was not exactly as you describe it. Obviously, Liz was worn out by the day's proceedings and going out to confront the speaker, who had just forcefully challenged the school board's competency by providing a litany of future projected underenrollments in West County, was not her finest hour. I believe her comment was something along the lines of "You may be from Brooklyn, but I'm not afraid of you." While some, including the comment's target, may have taken that as a veiled reference to being Italian, she did not say that exactly to my knowledge and there is no way to know precisely what she meant. Frankly, it just sounded pretty crazy. In any event, while that may have won Liz the "doh, why did I do that?" award of the day, it pales by comparison to the three comments about Kathy Smith given in hearing testimony, especially the one where a kid said that Kathy had written an email to others in one of the PTAs describing his mom as "vile and toxic." Can you imagine a public official describing your mother as "vile and toxic" to members of the public and officials of your own PTA because she didn't agree with you on something. Now THAT is reprehensible. But if they won't boot Stu for releasing private information on a student, they probably won't censure her for insulting members of the public either. Shame! Where is Dan "Honest Abe" Storck in bringing some discipline to his wild west board and fighting for union.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ESQ ()
Date: February 10, 2008 09:17AM

From FCPS:

Stu Gibson Six Additional Questions
19. Western Boundary residents have been talking about a possible legal suit,how will this affect the boundary process and future boundary studies? Would a suit prevent the outcome of this taking place?

Response-FCPS has reviewed the boundary process with legal counsel. Staff is also considering possible changes to the boundary process, not as a response to possible legal suit, but to provide an improved and longer range planning process for considering when and where boundary studies should be under taken in the future. -a clear admission of problem in current study-

So no answer on the -would this prevent outcome? It is called an INJUNCTION. more fun than that however is the legal requirement to turn over all internal communications. SBMs emails like the lovely VILE and TOXIC email (kathy smith) sent inadvertantly to a constituent will be public. Even the ones that are not so sensational can be spun that way. Not so good for politicians looking to move on.

You will not have to win to win.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 10, 2008 09:52AM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP vs IB Wrote:
> > Forum Reader Wrote:
> > > Is anyone else having trouble accessing the
> > > FCPS site? Did we crash it?
> >
> >
> > Website seems to have a new address; here it
> is:
> > http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/index.shtml
>
> Thank you - that works.
>
> (Were you the one looking for information about
> potential changes to the IB Programme?)


The website above now doesn't work, and the old one www.fcps.edu does. Weird. Each time it has worked it redirected me to a verizon page?

And yes, I am the one who mentioned the possible changes. Only in discussion now, and IBNA isn't getting any positive reception to their request. It has to do with the length of the SL courses.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: the truth about yellow shirts ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:20AM

FairfaxCAPS.org Meeting 2/7/2008
Oak Hill Elementary, 3210 Kinross Circle, Herndon

1. Show up promptly at 8:30 AM at Luther Jackson Middle School, 3020 Gallows Road, Falls Church. (directions on FairfaxCAPS.org Web site)
a. Bring 5 friends. (Call friends and urge them all to show up!) The million man march wasn’t just a couple guys who got together. WE NEED COMMUNITY PRESSURE!
b. Wear yellow t-shirts. They are bold and can be easily seen on camera.
c. Make signs. If you don’t have a sign, FairfaxCAPS.org has extras.
d. Even if you’re talking later in the day, be sure to show-up with 5 friends at 8:30 am.
e. GET FIRED UP!

2. Goal of speeches and showing up at 8:30 with signs & yellow shirts:
a. Win hearts and minds of School Board.
b. Win public opinion. According to the Post and other media, we are just a bunch of rich white folk who don’t want to go to SLHS. We are a diverse community! Ex. Jay stated his wife is Asian. When he lived in Connecticut, people came up to him and said, “Your little boy is cute. Where did you get him?” They could not think outside of their box that communities can be diverse.

3. Speeches
a. Length limit 3 minutes, so practice.
b. Written part: unlimited length. You can attach additional written information with your testimony. This is a good place to attach facts/figures.
c. Clearly say your name and where you reside (Floris, Fox Mill, Navy, Madison, etc.)
d. State: “I oppose redistricting! Status Quo is an option!” (Note: do not say you oppose just Floris. We need to appear unified.)
e. Be sure to end all speeches with: “Our kids. Our schools. Our choice. FairfaxCAPS.org.”
f. Bring 20 copies of your speech. (If you forget, tell the board you will e-mail your testimony, and then make sure you e-mail so that it goes on record).

4. What do we need the most in speeches: EMOTION!
a. The board has heard all the facts and figures. We can still hammer them by attaching to our presentation and submitting in for evidence.
b. The board has NOT heard from the surrounding communities how this personally affects and hurts you. They see us as numbers, not faces. South Lakes High is only telling personal stories of woe and suffering. Their case is weak. Stacy’s example: SLHS kids got up and talked about how Brittney and Jennifer and Heather and so on…were sad because they couldn’t get the elective classes like jewelry or guitar. We need you to tell them how it affects you! If you have to say, it affects our kids because of blank…and then use the rest of the 3 minutes to list off all the other kids you know that are sad because of the redistrict, and keep going past the time, after the buzzer stops.
c. You may need to step out of your comfort zone by public speaking. But you need to do this for your kids.
d. Most board members aren’t logical. 2+2=5 to them. They don’t understand the rational and the numbers. We need to show real emotion.

5. Talking points to pick from. (Remember 3 minutes is not a lot of time)
a. Gve a personal story of how this HURTS you… Examples:
i. Is this reverse discrimination? Ex., Asians do well in math/science and SLHS wants to raise its math/science scores.
ii. Aren’t you mad that they have classified us as rich white racists who don’t want to go to their school? And, that they think we fear gangs?
iii. SLHS wants to raise SES statistics, however poor people shouldn’t equal poor performance.
Ex.1 paraphrased, My dad was out of work for most of the 1970s. I had to go on reduced lunch. Does this increase to SES stats with our children mean that poor people aren’t capable of high performance? I’m disgusted at the board and the educators to suggest that low SES children aren’t performing and need higher SES to help them out. If my teachers had given up on me, I wouldn’t have gone on to get two masters degrees. This issue isn’t about SES. It is a programmatic issue that SLHS needs to address and why parents aren’t attracted to the high school… How is putting our kids in SLHS going to improve the failing scores of the kids low SES or high SES at SLHS.

Ex. 2 paraphrased. I came to this country with just luggage. I worked many jobs to support my children. I wanted a chance at the American dream.

Facts:
Attrition rates:
7.5 that start Westfield in 9th grade will leave before graduation
6.7 at Madison
3.7 Chantilly
2.1 Oakton
19.2 at South Lakes. Why so much higher at South Lakes?
SOL: see Mary’s e-mails or visit FCPS.edu
Langston Hughes, the middle school feeder into SLHS has
Failed its Standards of Learning 4 (SOL) years in a row. 4 out of 6 elementary schools that feed into the SLHS pyramid have failed their SOL for the past 2 years in a row. These kids are not all low SES and they are NOT prepared for high school. How is putting my kid in SLHS going to help them?
iv. Go ahead and take shots at North Reston that goes to Langley – an affluent white community that is bused past South Lakes to Langley High. They were not included in the study!
North Reston is only 8 miles to SLHS, but it’s approx. 12.5 miles to Langley.
v. Give examples of how you came to this country looking for freedom and right to vote and how you are disappointed by the lack of democratic process. “I have no choice…” “I thought the American dream was…”
b. Tell the board that the process was unjust. (This is a BIG talking point for many of the board members)
i. Use the Langley High example above.
ii. Use the discrimination examples above.
iii. Indicate how you thought you had a voice, but didn’t…
iv. How Stu is not listening and is representing the interests of the Reston portion of his district and not the other half of his district – Floris/Fox Mill.
v. Madison Island was told that they should probably go to the town meetings to hear about a study. They didn’t realize that they were speaking out for/against options to redistrict.
vi. How did SLHS PTA know that the option 5 they proposed in the first boundary meeting was the option to be chosen? When Stu met with SLHS PTA he specifically gave them information on the boundary study. When he met with Floris parents, he was vague and said that the
vii. SLHS PTA has wrongly pushed for more “warm bodies” to fill seats so that the kids can get their wish list of elective classes like Guitar, Jewelry making, Sign Language, Fashion Marketing, Drawing, etc. (You can make your own conclusions…)
viii. State that the facilities committee should not be driving a boundary study.
ix. The study didn’t include all of the county.
x. The study didn’t explore why SLHS is under-enrolled. (See the FairfaxCAPS.org website and click on “South Lakes Exodus”)
xi. The study wrongly states that Westfield and Chantilly are overenrolled (stats are on FairfaxCAPS.org)
xii. FCPS closed the speaker registration a day earlier than the Web site stated. (see point 5 below)
xiii. This is a programmatic issue. We shouldn’t be talking about demographics, race and SES. We should be talking about SOL scores.
xiv. SLHS sees our kids as warm bodies to improve the balance of SES and give them more access to programs. Why should they cover up their poor performance and Reston exodus with our kids? Why are their kids more important than ours?
xv. We have been politically targeted. Why wasn’t Langley included? Why did they include Madison Island which only has 11 HS students to be “warm bodies” so that they can have classes?
xvi. Why does South Lakes High need more “warm bodies”? Why is Marshall with only 1300 students performing so well? What are they doing differently that South Lakes is not?
c. Show how passionate you are: If 700-800 kids are redistricted, the board has about 1600 parents who will stop at nothing to ensure that their children will NOT go to SLHS.
d. Why is SLHS more important than us? They aren’t the only community that loves itself.
e. Have your kid say “I love Westfield (or Chantilly or wherever) and YOU have NO good reason to move me!” “Westfield is not overcrowded. There is no urgency here. There’s no kid sitting on the floor.”
f. What is the cost efficiency for this boundary change?
i. Cost of gas for double busing will increase. And the budget committee hasn’t approved additional money for gas this year, even though gas prices have been consistently been rising at 37% year after year.
ii. Connelly is UPSET that he isn’t getting a refund on the Westfield addition. How is this efficient use of school space and money?
iii. Langley High wants to build out an addition since they are overcapacity. How is this an efficiency? How is it that they have students closer to SLHS and weren’t included in the boundary study?
iv. SLEEP (program allowing kids to start school later) won’t cost the board.
g. This is NOT an issue of SES or race. This is a programmatic problem at SLHS. SLHS needs to address the poor performance. Some of us don’t have AP students or if we do, they may not be good in every subject. We shouldn’t have to worry that 1 in 3 will fail Chemistry at SLHS! If SLHS addresses the programmatic problem of their students, the problem will fix itself and they will be overcapacity. Redistricting is a quick fix that won’t solve the root problem.
h. Dangers. The back roads that our teens drive to schools aren’t dangerous. Connelly has a poster showing that people aged 15-20 are in accidents with injuries on the major arteries. Major arteries include Fairfax County Parkway, Reston Parkway…the roads and streets our kids would be crossing or taking to get to school.
i. IB vs. AP
a. South Lakes has offered to give us one token AP class. This is not a full AP program.
b. FCPS will only allow a school to be IB or AP, not both, due to staffing and resource issues. Precedent set at Woodson. Nov 1999, the Woodson principal and teachers put in an IB program in place of AP without the approval of parents. Parents were split 50/50 on IB. Since there was so much disagreement, Woodson has phased out its IB program and is replacing it with AP.
c. A full AP program will allow a student to take more classes. For example: 10th World History AP; 11th English Lit AP, AP Chem and 1 more; 12th could take a break and only do 2. That’s 6 AP classes!
d. There is more opportunity with AP. Westfield offers 25 AP courses; Oakton has 23; Falls Church who has less than 1400 students has 17 AP courses.
e. With an IB program, top schools only offer college credits for HL exams. Diploma candidates sit for 3 HL exams; 3 SL exams.
f. South Lakes parents got the right/opportunity to decide, but we didn’t. It’s being forced on us.
g. Pupil placement. If you decide to pupil place, you have to drive your child to the nearest high school, which might be Herndon. There is NO busing provided for pupil placement. Your child will NOT be allowed to participate in sports or dance after school for the first year. If they drop out of their AP program, they will be sent back to the school that they are districted for. Currently pupil placement is on hold until the board makes its decision.
j. Attach facts and figures to your presentation. Remember, the board doesn’t need to hear them. Just hand them to them. Members like Moon will enjoy looking at the graphs. (Graphs and data can be found on the FairfaxCAPS.org Web site)

6. If you haven’t spoken yet, or know someone who hasn’t, tell them to call:
Dr. Jack D. Dale’s office and complain that the Fairfax County School Board closed the 2/9 speaker registration on Thursday, when the Web site clearly states 4:30 the business day before the hearing. The business day before the hearing should have been FRIDAY! THIS IS A VIOLATION OF PROCESS! The more people calling, the better.
Phone: 571-423-1010
E-mail: Jack.Dale@fcps.edu

7. Chances of winning?
a. Chances the board will vote in our favor – 50/50. We need 6 votes. (2 are in favor, 3 on fence, and 1 could potentially be swayed.) That’s why it is important to show-up and put on the pressure! West Springfield won their redistricting because people were upset over process. Quote from the board stated that they didn’t believe PTAs should advocate or advance their positions on other groups, because they will alienate people from joining their school’s PTA.
b. Chances we will win a lawsuit – extremely HIGH. FCPS has violated a number of state statutes in this boundary study. Example: this is not improving efficiencies/costs.
c. It is very likely that the board decision on 2/28 will not be Option 5. They could decide to have an Option 6 that looks very different that we haven’t had a chance to speak to. (Just like they did after the last town meeting). They could also file a continuance to drag out the process even longer.

8. Legal
a. Legal documents to School board.
i. 1/29 Madison Island submitted a legal document that pointed out the inaccuracies and problems with the boundary study that the board had ignored.
ii. The United We Stand legal letter will be sent shortly.
b. 2/28 is the deadline to submit on record all the problems with the process and how it is unfair/unjust. This will go on record and it is very important that we submit for the legal team.
c. FairfaxCAPS.org is setting up an LLC and by next week will be able to accept pledges for the lawyer.

9. Fundraising/pledging opportunities.
a. Eat at Tandoori Restaurant. Every time you eat there and say you are against redistricting, Abby and her husband will donate 20% to the cause.
b. Make a pledge online at FairfaxCAPS.org. If we can show how much we’ve raised on the Website, the school board might get scared and back down. They shouldn’t want to waste tax payer money on a hefty lawsuit.
c. Send in a check. Info on FairfaxCAPS.org.

10. Go meet with the board members! Office phone numbers: http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/members.htm

a. You pay taxes – their salaries. Call their offices and schedule a meeting. And, if they won’t meet with you, complain to Jack Dale, 571-423-1010; jack.dale@fcps.edu.
b. When you talk to them, bring a map of the school districts. (Available online at FairfaxCAPS.org)
c. Don’t stop talking to Stu! We need to put the pressure on him.

11. Some individuals in the room shared their personal experiences with board members:

a. Martina Hone, at-large member: Is very concerned that the facilities team and school board have followed process. She may vote no, if she thinks that process was unfair.
b. James Raney could be swayed.
c. Brad Center Lee – could be swayed. We need to convince him that the process was unjust and that the numbers don’t make sense.
d. Daniel G. Storck – built a new school in the south county and then had to redistrict the kids out
e. Elizabeth Bradsher – new member and doesn’t have any political alliances. She could be swayed.
f. Ilryong Moon – could be swayed. He likes process and numbers, and if the process was wrong or if there are flaws in the data given to him, he will vote no.
g. PHILLIP A. NIEDZIELSKI-EICHNER likes facts and figures. Likes to see that there was a good strategic plan.
h. Kaye Kory – leader for SLEEP. Wants to find a reasonable solution for busing and time that the kids are driving on the roads.

12. Call Jack Dale and make sure he knows you are upset with the process.
571-432-1010, jack.dale@fcps.edu

13. Kathy Smith has a budget meeting on 2/15 at Virginia Run. We need to fill up the room with yellow-shirted people and put her on point to answer specific questions about the boundary study.

14. Volunteers needed for research
Contact Nick Pesce, npesce@fairfaxcaps.org

15. Q/A
a. How many people have spoken for or against?
Good question. We don’t have exact numbers, but it appears that more people have spoken out against redistricting.
b. Who are the members you have met with and who is on the fence?
We aren’t at liberty to say because some of the board members agreed to talk openly if we didn’t reveal their names.
c. Can we see the legal documentation? Post to the Web site?
Permission would have to be gained from United We Stand and Madison Island.
d. How do I get on the United We Stand list? Look for it in Google groups.
e. Who are the members of United We Stand? 110 people in the community.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ALARMED ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:43AM

AnotherWitness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WITNESS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > WITNESS Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF THE
> > > > SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING
> MEETING.
> > > >
> > > > She confronted the speaker in the outside
> > lobby
> > > > after his presentation which was critical
> of
> > > the
> > > > school boards performance over the last ten
> > > > years.
> > > >
> > > > She raised her voice and waved her finger
> in
> > > his
> > > > face and then made disparaging remarks
> about
> > > his
> > > > nationality and his ethnic background.
> > > >
> > > > All this was done as the speaker was
> walking
> > > away
> > > > from her and several people witness her
> > attack.
> > > >
> > > > This was a very unprofessional way that
> this
> > > > school board member acted. She should not
> be
> > a
> > > > school board member if she is not able to
> > take
> > > > criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.\
> > >
> > > REALLY??? Where any press people present?
> If
> > > that happened as you have stated, she should
> > not
> > > be on the school board. We cannot have
> public
> > > officials insulting people, and certainly not
> > > insulting ethnicity! That's horrible.
> >
> >
> > All of the above happened. There were several
> > FairFaxCaps people present and they also
> witnessed
> > the attack.
>
> I was present and it was not exactly as you
> describe it. Obviously, Liz was worn out by the
> day's proceedings and going out to confront the
> speaker, who had just forcefully challenged the
> school board's competency by providing a litany of
> future projected underenrollments in West County,
> was not her finest hour. I believe her comment
> was something along the lines of "You may be from
> Brooklyn, but I'm not afraid of you." While some,
> including the comment's target, may have taken
> that as a veiled reference to being Italian, she
> did not say that exactly to my knowledge and there
> is no way to know precisely what she meant.
> Frankly, it just sounded pretty crazy. In any
> event, while that may have won Liz the "doh, why
> did I do that?" award of the day, it pales by
> comparison to the three comments about Kathy Smith
> given in hearing testimony, especially the one
> where a kid said that Kathy had written an email
> to others in one of the PTAs describing his mom as
> "vile and toxic." Can you imagine a public
> official describing your mother as "vile and
> toxic" to members of the public and officials of
> your own PTA because she didn't agree with you on
> something. Now THAT is reprehensible. But if they
> won't boot Stu for releasing private information
> on a student, they probably won't censure her for
> insulting members of the public either. Shame!
> Where is Dan "Honest Abe" Storck in bringing some
> discipline to his wild west board and fighting for
> union.


ALARMED WRITES;


Based on what I am reading, I believe we have a school board that is out of control.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: not-tj-fan asian mom ()
Date: February 10, 2008 11:19AM

I have 3 kids, one is WHS graduate and one is senior. Tell you the truth, I'm not believing in BRAND-NAME college or a fan of tj. My first daughter tried TJ. Not make it. She got into U-PENN anyway and decided to go a non-ivy private school which fits her better. My second one is not a math-science kid. never try for tj. She spends her weekdays at WHS and studies at juilliard pre-college every Saturday.We're not rich, but do whatever to support her dream.
My third daughter is on her way to H.S.She tried for tj because most of her best friends may end up there.I understand that friendship means most for teenage girls. TJ is not for everyone. I like WHS because that MY COMMUNITY and the variety of student body.As a parent, I'll support my kid's choice of school even I feel WHS is her best fit. Do not stereotype Asian kids/parents.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: goyellowgo ()
Date: February 10, 2008 11:29AM

too bad this wasn't posted before the election or town hall meetings. there would be 100x more yellow shirts.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ahh ()
Date: February 10, 2008 11:30AM

ALARMED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AnotherWitness Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WITNESS Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Neen Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > WITNESS Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > LIZ BRADSHER LOST HER COOL WITH ONE OF
> THE
> > > > > SPEAKERS AT SATURDAYS REDISTRICTING
> > MEETING.
> > > > >
> > > > > She confronted the speaker in the outside
> > > lobby
> > > > > after his presentation which was critical
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > school boards performance over the last
> ten
> > > > > years.
> > > > >
> > > > > She raised her voice and waved her finger
> > in
> > > > his
> > > > > face and then made disparaging remarks
> > about
> > > > his
> > > > > nationality and his ethnic background.
> > > > >
> > > > > All this was done as the speaker was
> > walking
> > > > away
> > > > > from her and several people witness her
> > > attack.
> > > > >
> > > > > This was a very unprofessional way that
> > this
> > > > > school board member acted. She should not
> > be
> > > a
> > > > > school board member if she is not able to
> > > take
> > > > > criticism from faiffax county taxpayers.\
> > > >
> > > > REALLY??? Where any press people present?
> > If
> > > > that happened as you have stated, she
> should
> > > not
> > > > be on the school board. We cannot have
> > public
> > > > officials insulting people, and certainly
> not
> > > > insulting ethnicity! That's horrible.
> > >
> > >
> > > All of the above happened. There were several
> > > FairFaxCaps people present and they also
> > witnessed
> > > the attack.
> >
> > I was present and it was not exactly as you
> > describe it. Obviously, Liz was worn out by
> the
> > day's proceedings and going out to confront the
> > speaker, who had just forcefully challenged the
> > school board's competency by providing a litany
> of
> > future projected underenrollments in West
> County,
> > was not her finest hour. I believe her comment
> > was something along the lines of "You may be
> from
> > Brooklyn, but I'm not afraid of you." While
> some,
> > including the comment's target, may have taken
> > that as a veiled reference to being Italian,
> she
> > did not say that exactly to my knowledge and
> there
> > is no way to know precisely what she meant.
> > Frankly, it just sounded pretty crazy. In any
> > event, while that may have won Liz the "doh,
> why
> > did I do that?" award of the day, it pales by
> > comparison to the three comments about Kathy
> Smith
> > given in hearing testimony, especially the one
> > where a kid said that Kathy had written an
> email
> > to others in one of the PTAs describing his mom
> as
> > "vile and toxic." Can you imagine a public
> > official describing your mother as "vile and
> > toxic" to members of the public and officials
> of
> > your own PTA because she didn't agree with you
> on
> > something. Now THAT is reprehensible. But if
> they
> > won't boot Stu for releasing private
> information
> > on a student, they probably won't censure her
> for
> > insulting members of the public either. Shame!
>
> > Where is Dan "Honest Abe" Storck in bringing
> some
> > discipline to his wild west board and fighting
> for
> > union.
>
>
> ALARMED WRITES;
>
>
> Based on what I am reading, I believe we have a
> school board that is out of control.


You have to read here to believe that? too bad

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ahhagain ()
Date: February 10, 2008 11:33AM

ESQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> So no answer on the -would this prevent outcome?
> It is called an INJUNCTION. more fun than that
> however is the legal requirement to turn over all
> internal communications. SBMs emails like the
> lovely VILE and TOXIC email (kathy smith) sent
> inadvertantly to a constituent will be public.
> Even the ones that are not so sensational can be
> spun that way. Not so good for politicians
> looking to move on.
>
> You will not have to win to win.



Can't wait!! and the fact that Kathy Smith copied the "vile" parent on the email really shows what a bird brain the Sully district has sitting on the school board.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Eyes Wide Open ()
Date: February 10, 2008 01:29PM

Why are students not coming to SL?

Why are students leaving SL?

I have tried to follow the thread, but there are so many mixed messages.

If SL is in the shape that it is in, what has Stu Gibson done to help make it better.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 10, 2008 02:38PM

Eyes Wide Open Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are students not coming to SL?
>
> Why are students leaving SL?
>
> I have tried to follow the thread, but there are
> so many mixed messages.
>
> If SL is in the shape that it is in, what has Stu
> Gibson done to help make it better.


That is why a study on SL should have been addressed in the first place to determine why students have left SL or not coming to SL. Redistricting high performing kids as a last resort without any alternatives to help SL improve their test scores is not a reasonable solution to solve SL's issues. What has p'ssed off so many parents opposed to redistricting is that SL was given a choice to ask for more kids to help fix their problems while these p'ssed off parents' choices of education for their children would have been taken away. We are talking real children here not pawns to fix SL's problems. On the other hand, Stu has really made a big fool out of himself being the Hunter Mill district school board member, not respresenting all of his constituents at all. Only a select group which is the SL community, North Reston, and..any more?. It is terrible how this study was carried out. I was shocked to hear about how some of the school board members like Kathy and Liz behaved unprofessionally..made me wonder about the credibility of our school board members. There's been so much division over this boundary study so we will see what happens on the 28th.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Add this to the list ()
Date: February 10, 2008 05:58PM

Eyes Wide Open Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are students not coming to SL?
>
> Why are students leaving SL?
>
> I have tried to follow the thread, but there are
> so many mixed messages.
>
> If SL is in the shape that it is in, what has Stu
> Gibson done to help make it better.


What does SL need and why? What is their compelling argument FOR redistricting?

The majority of the SL speakers focus on the quality of their school being high.
How is this a compelling argument?

Why are more of their speakers not focusing on what problem it is they expect this RD will fix?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ESQ ()
Date: February 10, 2008 06:39PM

add this to the list

You are a breath of fresh air! Where are you SLs? For some reason you have disappeared from this post.

Answer please. What do you expect to gain if the RD goes through? Please dont answer more kids equals more courses.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FED UP ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:03PM

ahhagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ESQ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> So no answer on the -would this prevent
> outcome?
> > It is called an INJUNCTION. more fun than that
> > however is the legal requirement to turn over
> all
> > internal communications. SBMs emails like the
> > lovely VILE and TOXIC email (kathy smith) sent
> > inadvertantly to a constituent will be public.
> > Even the ones that are not so sensational can
> be
> > spun that way. Not so good for politicians
> > looking to move on.
> >
> > You will not have to win to win.
>
>
>
> Can't wait!! and the fact that Kathy Smith copied
> the "vile" parent on the email really shows what a
> bird brain the Sully district has sitting on the
> school board.

Mr. Storck 2/10/08

Since you have not responded to these serious charges against one of your school board member, I charge you with malfeasance of duty by a public official. Therefore, you should step down as chairman of the school board and also resign from the board.

You are just another public servant who will not do their job or is not capable of doing his job.

If I was Liz Bradsher I would make disparaging remarks about your nationality or your ethnic background or if I was Kathy Smith I would describe you as "vile and toxic. "

FED UP



Mr. Storck 2/1/08

As the chairman of the Fairfax County School Board, I am filing a formal complaint with you against Mr. Gibson. During the meetings he has violated the Strategic Governance Manual, Meeting Protocol. As a witness, he violated 1.e,1.f,1.i,1.m and 1.n.

It states in the Manual that the Board's meetings are conducted with maximum effectiveness and efficiency, members will;

1.e. Not interrupt each during debate;

1.f. Not engage in disruptive and disrespectful side conversations;

1.i. Address the merits of the issues being discussed without appealing to the biases, prejudices and emotions of the audience;

1.m. Practice respectful body language;

1.n. Listen actively when other members speak.

Please indicate if you are the correct person in which I should file this complaint or tell me who is the proper person.

In addition, I have attached my email to you regarding unacceptable decorum over the last two boundary meetings.

These meeting must be treated with respect and are not a laughing matter to you or any school board member.

Please let me know what the next step is.

Respectfully,

FED UP

email sent to you on 1/31/08 at 10:30pm.

As you know the people who are making presentations to you have deep passion and truly believe in what they are saying either for or against new boundary lines.

What is unacceptable is that some of the school board members decorum is less then appropriate? You know who you are.

Board members should look at the person who is making a presentation and stop using your computer or checking your cell phone messages.

Board members should reduce the amount of levity during the meeting and stop rushing people thru the process.

At times you have as many as five empty chairs during some presentations. This is unacceptable.

You have serious problems regarding this redistricting proposal and these problems need to be addressed by serious board members.

Respectfully,

FED UP

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: At The Disgust Level ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:31PM

The blatant arrogance of this School Board continues to astound me. They have totally lost the public's confidence in their ability to perform their job. The only parents who are happy with them are the apathetic ones who don't have a clue what is going on. Why did Bradsher lose it with a speaker who merely rattled off stats on student underenrollment-stats provided by FCPS. I guess they should clarify that taxpayers are free to speak at these meeting but only if they have nice things to say. This is America isn't it? I am beginning to wonder.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:39PM

ESQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From FCPS:
>
> Stu Gibson Six Additional Questions
> 19. Western Boundary residents have been talking
> about a possible legal suit,how will this affect
> the boundary process and future boundary studies?
> Would a suit prevent the outcome of this taking
> place?
>
> Response-FCPS has reviewed the boundary process
> with legal counsel. Staff is also considering
> possible changes to the boundary process, not as a
> response to possible legal suit, but to provide an
> improved and longer range planning process for
> considering when and where boundary studies should
> be under taken in the future. -a clear admission
> of problem in current study-
>
> So no answer on the -would this prevent outcome?
> It is called an INJUNCTION. more fun than that
> however is the legal requirement to turn over all
> internal communications. SBMs emails like the
> lovely VILE and TOXIC email (kathy smith) sent
> inadvertantly to a constituent will be public.
> Even the ones that are not so sensational can be
> spun that way. Not so good for politicians
> looking to move on.
>
> You will not have to win to win.

VERY interesting. Would an injunction work? Or could FCPS ignore it and continue down their predetermined path?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:42PM

At The Disgust Level Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The blatant arrogance of this School Board
> continues to astound me. They have totally lost
> the public's confidence in their ability to
> perform their job. The only parents who are happy
> with them are the apathetic ones who don't have a
> clue what is going on. Why did Bradsher lose it
> with a speaker who merely rattled off stats on
> student underenrollment-stats provided by FCPS. I
> guess they should clarify that taxpayers are free
> to speak at these meeting but only if they have
> nice things to say. This is America isn't it? I
> am beginning to wonder.

FCPS has always been allowed to do what they want. Why wouldn't they expect that to continue? There are no controls over what they do. The democrats get re-elected no matter what they do, so why would they think that they have to listen to the public? The reality is, they don't.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Just say No ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:44PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At The Disgust Level Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The blatant arrogance of this School Board
> > continues to astound me. They have totally
> lost
> > the public's confidence in their ability to
> > perform their job. The only parents who are
> happy
> > with them are the apathetic ones who don't have
> a
> > clue what is going on. Why did Bradsher lose it
> > with a speaker who merely rattled off stats on
> > student underenrollment-stats provided by FCPS.
> I
> > guess they should clarify that taxpayers are
> free
> > to speak at these meeting but only if they have
> > nice things to say. This is America isn't it?
> I
> > am beginning to wonder.
>
> FCPS has always been allowed to do what they want.
> Why wouldn't they expect that to continue? There
> are no controls over what they do. The democrats
> get re-elected no matter what they do, so why
> would they think that they have to listen to the
> public? The reality is, they don't.

The Board is powerless anyways. Until the bond is voted down nothing will change and the beatings continue

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SCer ()
Date: February 10, 2008 10:53PM

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen (IP Logged)
Date: February 10, 2008 10:42PM


At The Disgust Level Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Why did Bradsher lose it
> with a speaker who merely rattled off stats on
> student underenrollment-stats provided by FCPS.

The democrats get re-elected no matter what they do, so why would they think that they have to listen to the public? The reality is, they don't."

_________________________________
Bradsher is a Republican.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lincoln Is A Fraud ()
Date: February 10, 2008 11:07PM

I don't buy this Democrat vs. Republican argument. From my observation from The FCPS Tyranny continues to abuse us because there is no oversight. Look at Montgomery County-they have a very active county council who does dot hesitate to reign in The Board of Education when needed. Our BOS gives the SB far too long of a leash.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:37AM

> The Board is powerless anyways. Until the bond is
> voted down nothing will change and the beatings
> continue


Powerless? Their annual operating budget is $2.3 BILLION. People who control that much money are NOT powerless.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:38AM

Lincoln Is A Fraud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't buy this Democrat vs. Republican argument.
> From my observation from The FCPS Tyranny
> continues to abuse us because there is no
> oversight. Look at Montgomery County-they have a
> very active county council who does dot hesitate
> to reign in The Board of Education when needed.
> Our BOS gives the SB far too long of a leash.

Oh please. They're ALL democrats and they waste as much money as FCPS, even more per pupil than our school board.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ParentOf4 ()
Date: February 11, 2008 06:27AM

I agree, the School Board has WAY too much freedom, but apparently we all voted in 1995 to make the School Board an "elected entity with sole legal jurisdiction over
issues pertaining to public schools, including boundaries" - as quoted from Mr. Connelly. I already wrote to him to complain about the School Board. The key is to either vote these guys out next time, or petition to have the rules changed regarding the School Board's freedoms. There are no checks and balances right now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ACTION NEEDED ()
Date: February 11, 2008 06:56AM

ParentOf4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree, the School Board has WAY too much
> freedom, but apparently we all voted in 1995 to
> make the School Board an "elected entity with sole
> legal jurisdiction over
> issues pertaining to public schools, including
> boundaries" - as quoted from Mr. Connelly. I
> already wrote to him to complain about the School
> Board. The key is to either vote these guys out
> next time, or petition to have the rules changed
> regarding the School Board's freedoms. There are
> no checks and balances right now.

ACTION NEEDED WRITES

I agree that the rules need to changeD and this school board needs to be voted out at the next election.

We also need a Fairfax citizen oversight committee that would insure checks and balances over the SB. Right now they answer to no one and are out of control.

All citizen need to come together with one voice and force our will on the FCPS system.

All citizen must not forget what has taken place over the last few years.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ESQ ()
Date: February 11, 2008 07:16AM

Neen-

Yes an injunction would hold. It is a court order and the school must comply. There are thousands of similar cases, an injunction can be obtained if the plaintiff can show irreparable harm will be caused without one. In this case that is fairly simple to demonstrate.

This would forestall the redistricting until the case is heard. Depending on the grounds chosen for a suit and here there are several, this case would go to either federal ( a faster option) or Fairfax County. It is possible it may go to both. Either way no redistricting for next school year.

This is a huge risk for SBMs they are arrogant however. Most simply dont care if they get sued. That is probably because they havent been sued yet. It is really very revealing. A lawsuit regardless of its outcome will bring about needed change to the SB and staff. It is unfortunate that many of the SBMs and all of the staff lack the motivation to correct the clearly visible issues prior to such an event.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 11, 2008 07:19AM

ACTION NEEDED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ParentOf4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I agree, the School Board has WAY too much
> > freedom, but apparently we all voted in 1995 to
> > make the School Board an "elected entity with
> sole
> > legal jurisdiction over
> > issues pertaining to public schools, including
> > boundaries" - as quoted from Mr. Connelly. I
> > already wrote to him to complain about the
> School
> > Board. The key is to either vote these guys out
> > next time, or petition to have the rules
> changed
> > regarding the School Board's freedoms. There
> are
> > no checks and balances right now.
>
> ACTION NEEDED WRITES
>
> I agree that the rules need to changeD and this
> school board needs to be voted out at the next
> election.
>
> We also need a Fairfax citizen oversight committee
> that would insure checks and balances over the SB.
> Right now they answer to no one and are out of
> control.
>
> All citizen need to come together with one voice
> and force our will on the FCPS system.
>
> All citizen must not forget what has taken place
> over the last few years.


This is something you could check with FairfaxCAPS. That is one of the reasons why CAPS was formed following a screwed up Western boundary study and some of the school board members behaving unprofessionally.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Just say No ()
Date: February 11, 2008 07:29AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The Board is powerless anyways. Until the bond
> is
> > voted down nothing will change and the beatings
> > continue
>
>
> Powerless? Their annual operating budget is $2.3
> BILLION. People who control that much money are
> NOT powerless.

Yes, Neen, people who control a $2.3 billion budget are not powerless. However the Board doesn't really control the budget do they?

They receive the budget as they did when it is presented publicly and then must make amendments if they want to change it. I believe Jack Dale inc. controls the budget.

The only real power the SB has is to negotiate Jack's contract.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Just say No ()
Date: February 11, 2008 07:34AM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ACTION NEEDED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ParentOf4 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I agree, the School Board has WAY too much
> > > freedom, but apparently we all voted in 1995
> to
> > > make the School Board an "elected entity with
> > sole
> > > legal jurisdiction over
> > > issues pertaining to public schools,
> including
> > > boundaries" - as quoted from Mr. Connelly. I
> > > already wrote to him to complain about the
> > School
> > > Board. The key is to either vote these guys
> out
> > > next time, or petition to have the rules
> > changed
> > > regarding the School Board's freedoms. There
> > are
> > > no checks and balances right now.
> >
> > ACTION NEEDED WRITES
> >
> > I agree that the rules need to changeD and this
> > school board needs to be voted out at the next
> > election.
> >
> > We also need a Fairfax citizen oversight
> committee
> > that would insure checks and balances over the
> SB.
> > Right now they answer to no one and are out of
> > control.
> >
> > All citizen need to come together with one
> voice
> > and force our will on the FCPS system.
> >
> > All citizen must not forget what has taken
> place
> > over the last few years.
>
>
> This is something you could check with
> FairfaxCAPS. That is one of the reasons why CAPS
> was formed following a screwed up Western boundary
> study and some of the school board members
> behaving unprofessionally.

They have screwed up boundaries long before the West. The only check is to vote down the bond

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ACTION NEEDED ()
Date: February 11, 2008 07:37AM

Does anyone know when Dale's contract ends?

Lets get him out then.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Disbarred ()
Date: February 11, 2008 07:40AM

ESQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen-
>
> Yes an injunction would hold. It is a court order
> and the school must comply. There are thousands
> of similar cases, an injunction can be obtained if
> the plaintiff can show irreparable harm will be
> caused without one. In this case that is fairly
> simple to demonstrate.
>
> This would forestall the redistricting until the
> case is heard. Depending on the grounds chosen for
> a suit and here there are several, this case would
> go to either federal ( a faster option) or Fairfax
> County. It is possible it may go to both. Either
> way no redistricting for next school year.
>
> This is a huge risk for SBMs they are arrogant
> however. Most simply dont care if they get sued.
> That is probably because they havent been sued
> yet. It is really very revealing. A lawsuit
> regardless of its outcome will bring about needed
> change to the SB and staff. It is unfortunate
> that many of the SBMs and all of the staff lack
> the motivation to correct the clearly visible
> issues prior to such an event.


Esq is ambulance chaser. Injunction is a very high bar to meet. Make sure Esq takes this case on a retainer only basis. Otherwise, he gets rich(er) and you get more baffled.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ACTION NEEDED ()
Date: February 11, 2008 07:54AM

ACTION NEEDED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know when Dale's contract ends?
>
> Lets get him out then.



ACTION NEEDED WRITES:

Remember to call Jack Dale's office and complain about the unacceptable process that was used in the boundary study.

571 432 1010 or email him at Jack.Dale@fcps.edu, also call or email your SB member.

You need to call Storck who is the chairman and also complain about the process.

571 423 1086 or email him at Dan.Storck@fcps.edu

Keep the pressure on 24/7 and make them pay for their disaster decisions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: February 11, 2008 08:00AM

As much as the arrogance of particular SB members sickens me, I wonder whether dragging this through the gutter is the right thing.

Is this about winning at all costs?

I detest the culture of victimization and scorched earth politics that this action would imply.

Yes, there is pleasure in seeing some of the SB squirm -- they deserve it. But even talking about this now lowers us.

Up till now, this was playing out like a scenario from an Ayn Rand novel.

ESQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen-
>
> Yes an injunction would hold. It is a court order
> and the school must comply. There are thousands
> of similar cases, an injunction can be obtained if
> the plaintiff can show irreparable harm will be
> caused without one. In this case that is fairly
> simple to demonstrate.
>
> This would forestall the redistricting until the
> case is heard. Depending on the grounds chosen for
> a suit and here there are several, this case would
> go to either federal ( a faster option) or Fairfax
> County. It is possible it may go to both. Either
> way no redistricting for next school year.
>
> This is a huge risk for SBMs they are arrogant
> however. Most simply dont care if they get sued.
> That is probably because they havent been sued
> yet. It is really very revealing. A lawsuit
> regardless of its outcome will bring about needed
> change to the SB and staff. It is unfortunate
> that many of the SBMs and all of the staff lack
> the motivation to correct the clearly visible
> issues prior to such an event.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ESQ ()
Date: February 11, 2008 08:14AM

Disbarred?

I assume that you meant to say contingency basis not retainer. An injunction is not such a high bar. You seem to be speaking from personal experience?

I have no problem donating my time along with the hundreds of other parents that object to this redistricting effort. I should add that this has past the point of expense or time for many of us it is now a matter of what's right and what's wrong.

I dont happen to believe that once an official is elected he may abuse his/her position by enacting policy with no basis to support its need. I dont believe that he/she has the right to damage communities and children to further their political ideology. The arrogance that allows politicians to believe they were elected kings/queens explains the need for a judicial branch in government. Sometimes you have to take the politics out to get to the truth.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Parent of Snot Nosed Brats ()
Date: February 11, 2008 08:23AM

ACTION NEEDED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know when Dale's contract ends?
>
> Lets get him out then.


I think in 3 more years.

He got a new 3 year one 1 year into his original 3 year one courtesy of Stu Gibson who went behind many peoples backs to get it done...so he had a 5 year contract 1 year after he signed his original 3 year contract

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ACTION NEEDED ()
Date: February 11, 2008 08:27AM

ACTION NEEDED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ACTION NEEDED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Does anyone know when Dale's contract ends?
> >
> > Lets get him out then.
>
>
>
> ACTION NEEDED WRITES:
>
> Remember to call Jack Dale's office and complain
> about the unacceptable process that was used in
> the boundary study.
>
> 571 432 1010 or email him at Jack.Dale@fcps.edu,
> also call or email your SB member.
>
> You need to call Storck who is the chairman and
> also complain about the process.
>
> 571 423 1086 or email him at Dan.Storck@fcps.edu
>
> Keep the pressure on 24/7 and make them pay for
> their disaster decisions.


CORRECTION

DALE'S NUMBER IS 571 423 1010

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: RDReporter - Half Million Lawsuit ()
Date: February 11, 2008 08:30AM

Heard some news this morning. The East Floris community has raised more than 200,000 within two days last weekend and have hired attorney to prepare for a lawsuit against the county school board. By their estimate, they will eventually raise probably 500,000 for a large scale lawsuit, or possibly multiple lawsuits. It also turned out that, East Floris consists of a large percentage of minority families. All of the minority families felt deeply insulted as the community being portraited by the SLHS PTA as racists, while themselves are the target of racism. The monority group is preparing for a racial discrmination lawsuit against the school board, or specifically Gisbon himself. Judging from the ignorant attitude of Gibson through the public hearing against minority speakers, I don't blame them. Gibson is supposed to represent East Floris but he has been bias against them through the whole process. I was in the public hearing and the way he turned his head away from all of those minority speakers are just too much a show.

From what I have read, there are numerous flaws in this redistrict process. SLHS PTA proposed an option and posted on their web site long before the county's so called option 5(the final option) even went public. How could SLHS PTA's option exactly match county's final option? From Gibson, maybe? Also, county's record clearly showed that, SLHS parents did not want McNair because McNair is a title I school. And McNair has closer proximity to SLHS. Now, tell me that's not discrimination against McNair people. A title I school is openly discrminated by the same group of SLHS PTA parents that claimed whoever did not attend SLHS as racists. Does that sound right to you? It's just ironic and absurb. Also, SLHS PTA hand picked the schools that they like to accept. Something like, "Can I have Fox Mill, East Floris, Madison Island? Those are high achievers and they are good kids. Oh, by the way, I don't want McNair, that's a title I, bad kids". It sounds like they are doing grocery shopping and picking cherries.
East Floris also showed that, they have gone through 8 redistrict the last 10 years. That does sound like a victim of abuse to me. Put you on their shoes, 8 times within 10 years. It sounds insane to me. No wonder they don't feel being treated fairly and feel being a victim of racial discrimination and could raise so much money within 2 days and ready for a lawsuit.
Even worse, Kathy Smith, another board member, emailed a group of Centerville residents and urged their children, who also attend Westfield HS, to go to the public hearing to claim how overcrowded Westfield is and urged them to kick the Floris kids out of Westfield HS. I saw some Floris kids who are currently attending Westfield had tears on their eyes during the public hearings. They were told by some school kids that, "Hey guys, too bad, we are staying, you are going to South Lakes". The funny part is, the Certerville parents put Kathy Smith's name on the email and literally let the whole world know that, it's Kathy Smith who urge them to trigger a fight among Westfield students.

What a show! It seems that, the school board triggered fights among community themselves by dividing them up, sending some to SLHS and letting others staying behind, and if that's not enough, Kathy Smith tried hard to put up more fire by pushing Westfield students fight against each other for their own interests. What kind of values the school board is trying to implant into the students? Kill each other?

Madision Island is also ready to hit the county school board with a lawsuit for their wrongdoings. I can't wait to see all the lawsuits get started so that, the public will have a nice picture of what is happening behind the sceen and how ugly some of the school board members have behaved. I am sure there will be a of ugly emails and behind the scene deal makings being made public by the lawsuits.

By the way, I bet all those SLHS kids who are in free lunch program, and their families, have no clue what is going on. This redistrict seems more for raising testing scores of SLHS rather than improving socio-economic balance. I don't see how those kids being benefit by raising the score of SLHS. Those kids are actually the victims of racial discrimination. Indeed, they are the same Title I students that the SLHS parents openly reject in the public hearings.

On the positive note, this could be an event that shapes up the county school board bullies. And it might end up saving the public from being abused in the future.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: At Any Cost ()
Date: February 11, 2008 08:37AM

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As much as the arrogance of particular SB members
> sickens me, I wonder whether dragging this through
> the gutter is the right thing.
>
> Is this about winning at all costs?
>

Today, we debate the West County boundaries. Yesterday, it was South County. Tomorrow, it is another $60 million for an FCPS building when the County is cutting programs, staff and limiting teacher increases. Next, it might be security in school buildings, background checks on coaches and teachers to protect against predators, unequal access for citizens and new immigrants, lack of enforcement for equal opportunity for girls in athletics, removing books from libraries, high lead levels in water for drinking fountains, head start, full day kindergarden, or 100 other things.

If we want to have a voice on any of those types of issues, we must be willing to stand up today and be counted. If we claim our rights as citizens in Virginia now, we can speak up with authority on other issues of importance to our children and our community. If we come together and speak with one loud voice, we can reaffirm our place in determining our own future.

Those who oppose the unrepresentational nature of the Fairfax County School Board, the hands off approach of the Board of Supervisors and the lack of accountability of the FCPS Superintendent, must show their willingness to fight this at any cost. They will not take us seriously or negotiate in good faith unless they realize they are about to lose power, and with them all their friends in the state government.

Who are we? We are Democrats and Republicans. Black, white, asian and latino. All of West County. This is beyond politics, race and money. This is about our right to self determination.

The school board, staff and supervisors may want us to think this is only about redistricting. But we know better. It's about who pays the bills. It's about all of us.

For those who have been on the fence, go and watch the last scene of Casablanca again. Remember what Victor Laslo says to Richard Blaine? "Welcome to the fight. Now I know our side will win." Be a hero, join the fight and we will win.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Parent of Snot Nosed Brats ()
Date: February 11, 2008 08:47AM

At Any Cost Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As much as the arrogance of particular SB
> members
> > sickens me, I wonder whether dragging this
> through
> > the gutter is the right thing.
> >
> > Is this about winning at all costs?
> >
>
> Today, we debate the West County boundaries.
> Yesterday, it was South County. Tomorrow, it is
> another $60 million for an FCPS building when the
> County is cutting programs, staff and limiting
> teacher increases. Next, it might be security in
> school buildings, background checks on coaches and
> teachers to protect against predators, unequal
> access for citizens and new immigrants, lack of
> enforcement for equal opportunity for girls in
> athletics, removing books from libraries, high
> lead levels in water for drinking fountains, head
> start, full day kindergarden, or 100 other things.
>
>
> If we want to have a voice on any of those types
> of issues, we must be willing to stand up today
> and be counted. If we claim our rights as
> citizens in Virginia now, we can speak up with
> authority on other issues of importance to our
> children and our community. If we come together
> and speak with one loud voice, we can reaffirm our
> place in determining our own future.
>
> Those who oppose the unrepresentational nature of
> the Fairfax County School Board, the hands off
> approach of the Board of Supervisors and the lack
> of accountability of the FCPS Superintendent, must
> show their willingness to fight this at any cost.
> They will not take us seriously or negotiate in
> good faith unless they realize they are about to
> lose power, and with them all their friends in the
> state government.
>
> Who are we? We are Democrats and Republicans.
> Black, white, asian and latino. All of West
> County. This is beyond politics, race and money.
> This is about our right to self determination.
>
> The school board, staff and supervisors may want
> us to think this is only about redistricting. But
> we know better. It's about who pays the bills.
> It's about all of us.
>
> For those who have been on the fence, go and watch
> the last scene of Casablanca again. Remember what
> Victor Laslo says to Richard Blaine? "Welcome to
> the fight. Now I know our side will win." Be a
> hero, join the fight and we will win.

I like it. But start with staff and the Superintendant. Understand who you really need to battle.

Also understand you can vote down the school bond and get the same result and it is a whole lot cheaper.

Then they have to restart the system

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 10:00AM

After 3 months of active participation in this most debatable Boundary Study, I have come to several conclusions.

I believe that South lakes HS is probably on the upswing in terms of improving test scores as well as other measurable statistics that parents are looking for when deciding where they want to send their children for education.

I believe that had the South Lakes PTA and the Fairfax County School Board actively promoted all of the benefits of South Lakes "Prior" to this boundary study, many people would have felt much better about the possibility of sending their children to South Lakes.

I believe that most of the students, and some of the parents in South Lakes have done a great job of promoting South Lakes.

I also believe that many of the South Lakes parents who have been publicly involved in pushing this RD, have completely alienated those of us who were/are skeptical about the process in which this Boundary Study has been conducted. Some of the more vocal South Lakes parents have created a situation whereby people who may have been on the fence will never feel good about putting their children into South Lakes. (even if they feel that the School has many benifits to offer). This boundary study has been conducted in such a devisive manner, that I do not think that some communities will ever recover. Many friendships within some communities have been permenantly damaged due to the way that the Staff presented the various options for which communities could be moved.

I do not believe that the School Board Staff could have botched this study any more, if they tried. I think that they and the school board did not realize that we live in the information age, and that many would seek to find any and all information that could be used to discredit the school board as well as South Lakes.

It should be pretty clear by now that the sole reason for this Boundary study is to add students to South lakes. $60,000,000 has been spent on renovations, and the School Board needs to justify this expense. The fact that they chose to spend millions more on the expansion of Langley and Westfield "before" the Boundary study a claer waste of tax payer dollars, and casts additional suspicion and distrust upon the School Board.

The fact that the School Board Staff attemped to justify this RD by bringing up overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfield, elimination of islands, equal access to resources and programs, balancing of Socio-economics and the like has just created an opportunity for those who are opposed to the RD to pick each of these reasons apart through fact.

I believe that if the goal was to increase enrollment at South Lakes, an intelligent SB would have kept it simple, and used just this as a reason for RD. The fact that they chose to bring in questionable objectives in oder to justify this RD has created a no win situation for all involved.

Think about it this way.. When the decision was made to use socio-economics as a reason for the RD, and the South Lakes PTA and the SB are telling everyone that South Lakes suffers from High FRM, High ESOL, High Mobility Rates, Higher numbers of Safety issues,lack of programs and resources etc. etc., these are not exactly selling points for those parents who are now being asked to take their children out of highly rated schools, and send them into a school that has all of these issues.

It would be like a business advertising the fact that they offer poor quality, not enough customers, and an inferior product compared to the competition as a reason to patronize their business. My guess is that this would not be an effective advertising campaign.

There are so many compromises being made to stated objectives of reduced commute times (Navy to oakton?). Reduced split feeders (Floris, Rachel Carson feeding to 4 High Schools?), Elimination of islands (It seems that Madison is not an Island afterall, but Langly has many). Balance of socio-economics (how could Langley and Crossfield have been left out of the RD?) Reduced enrollments at Westfield and Chantilly (the reduction numbers are so small, as to not really make much of a difference in enrollments).

I believe that it is time for all involved, to stop the current study, let emotions calm down, and try to bring parents from all West County Schools together in an open, forum with no preset agendas.

After all that has been discussed over the last few months, many people have perhaps some new ideas and perceptions about South Lakes,and their cown communities, and the current schools in which they feed.

If South Lakes is really going to get the enrollment that they desire, with parents and students who are actively invloved in promoting the school and getting involed in booster clubs, PTA and building School Spirit, the parents and students need to "Want" to be there. I am convinced that there are many parents and students, who after hearing and learning more about South Lakes, may want to be a part of the school.The key is to create the desire to come, rather than "forcing" parents and students to change.

We all know why South Lakes wants more kids, but they have yet to provide any compelling benifits for those children who are being told to leave their current schools and friends and go to South Lakes.

Now is the time for South Lakes supporters to stop attacking those who are opposed to the RD, and start selling the benifits of coming to their school.

Options: ReplyQuote
URGENT SURVEY ON REDISTRICTING
Posted by: FairfaxCAPS ()
Date: February 11, 2008 10:12AM

The following survey (below) on redistricting is being circulated by Rona Ackerman, President of the Fox Mill Elementary PTA. Rona had previously taken the position in Fox Mill Prints and in public that the PTA should remain neutral in the redistricting debate. She also declined to survey PTA members on the issue since she believed it would violate this neutrality.

On Saturday, Rona spoke out in favor of moving Fox Mill to South Lakes at the public hearing. Then, at shortly after 6am this morning, Rona circulated the following survey. We STRONGLY encourage you to answer this survey at Rona2@cox.net and copy info@FairfaxCAPS.org so that we may keep our own record of responses. Since some in the community, including members of the PTA, had not received this survey, we are sending it to all individuals on the FairfaxCAPS list. You are encouraged to send it to others in the community as well. If you have already answered the survey, we would encourage you to send a copy of your response to FairfaxCAPS so that we may provide our members with an independent count. If you receive this note after noon today , we also encourage you to complete it and return it to both Rona and FairfaxCAPS since we believe every voice counts!

Please note: This survey floats the idea of splitting Fox Mill. This is the first time this idea has been suggested in any public forum to our knowledge. We do not know if this is Rona’s idea but it is a VERY important development to all of us who love Fox Mill Elementary and the Fox Mill community!

Thank you very much for your attention!

Best regards,

Fairfax County Coalition of Advocates for Public Schools (CAPS)
jfrost@FairfaxCAPS.org
www.FairfaxCAPS.org



----- Original Message -----
From: Rona Ackerman
To: Rona Ackerman
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 6:10 AM
Subject: Short Survey - Please respond before noon!

1. Would you be okay with your children going to Oakton High School? (Yes or No)

2. Would you be okay with your children going to South Lakes High School (Yes or No)

3. Would you be okay with half of the Fox Mill ES students going to South Lakes and half of the Fox Mill ES students going to Oakton? (Yes or No)



Rona Ackerman

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 11, 2008 10:14AM

RDReporter - Half Million Lawsuit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even worse, Kathy Smith, another board member,
> emailed a group of Centerville residents and
> urged their children, who also attend Westfield
> HS, to go to the public hearing to claim how
> overcrowded Westfield is and urged them to kick
> the Floris kids out of Westfield HS.

Can you provide a copy of that email from Kathy Smith to the Centerville residents on this forum? If so, please do. I won't comment on Mrs. Smith or anyone else until I see that email. But in general, I believe that publicly elected individuals who instigate in such a manner should be removed from office.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:05AM

Here is the Kathy Smith instigation.

January 2008
Dear Friends,
I am sure that you have heard all about the boundary issues currently being debated in western Fairfax County. Westfield High School is directly impacted by whatever decision is made. The impact to Westfield concerns the number of students attending the school. Depending on which boundary proposal is selected, your child will either continue to have 3,100 classmates or could possibly have 2,500 classmates. YOU NEED TO LET THE SCHOOL BOARD KNOW HOW MANY CLASSMATES YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO HAVE!
I have heard many views on the subject. One in particular troubles me: "My child is not going to be moved so I am not worried." Whether or not your own child will be sent to a different high school just means that they won't go to a different building. They WILL however be impacted. Currently Westfield High School has about 3,100 students. Whatever is done with the boundaries, those numbers will change. How much they change will depend upon where the boundaries are drawn.
Parents whose children may be moved to a new school are showing up to the boundary meetings, writing letters, proposing lawsuits, and advocating for their children. You need to do the same. Others’ opinions are being HEARD. Those of us who live in so-called “unaffected” areas are NOT. The size of a school affects not only class size, but the opportunity to play on a school team, participate in a play, and receive individual attention from teachers.
PLEASE VOICE YOUR OPINION!!!!
Go to http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/members/contactsb.htm and fill out the form online. It is simple to do. Select "School Board" from the drop down box and "Yes" to include "At-Large” Members. One click sends your e-mail to the entire School Board. If you or anyone you know is interested, please sign up to speak on Sat. Feb. 9th at the last day of Public Hearings. You can go on the website and sign-up and a time slot will be issued.
In addition, email this letter to your friends and neighbors. You can copy this letter, paste it into a new email with your own signature (or forward if you like) and ask everyone in your email network to do the same. In a short period of time, the Fairfax County School Board Members will know what the parents in our community think.
Most sincerely,
Laura Floyd
Legislation Committee Chair
VA Run PTA
P.S. According to Kathy Smith (Sully District’s Rep) the School Board is receiving little input indicating that Westfield High School needs to be smaller. There is resistance from some members to make any boundary changes because they’re not hearing from parents that it’s needed. So please email the School Board and sign-up to speak on February 9th.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Disbarred ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:18AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the Kathy Smith instigation.
>
> January 2008
> Dear Friends,
> I am sure that you have heard all about the
> boundary issues currently being debated in western
> Fairfax County. Westfield High School is directly
> impacted by whatever decision is made. The impact
> to Westfield concerns the number of students
> attending the school. Depending on which boundary
> proposal is selected, your child will either
> continue to have 3,100 classmates or could
> possibly have 2,500 classmates. YOU NEED TO LET
> THE SCHOOL BOARD KNOW HOW MANY CLASSMATES YOU WANT
> YOUR CHILDREN TO HAVE!
> I have heard many views on the subject. One in
> particular troubles me: "My child is not going to
> be moved so I am not worried." Whether or not your
> own child will be sent to a different high school
> just means that they won't go to a different
> building. They WILL however be impacted. Currently
> Westfield High School has about 3,100 students.
> Whatever is done with the boundaries, those
> numbers will change. How much they change will
> depend upon where the boundaries are drawn.
> Parents whose children may be moved to a new
> school are showing up to the boundary meetings,
> writing letters, proposing lawsuits, and
> advocating for their children. You need to do the
> same. Others’ opinions are being HEARD. Those of
> us who live in so-called “unaffected” areas are
> NOT. The size of a school affects not only class
> size, but the opportunity to play on a school
> team, participate in a play, and receive
> individual attention from teachers.
> PLEASE VOICE YOUR OPINION!!!!
> Go to
> http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/members/contactsb.htm
> and fill out the form online. It is simple to do.
> Select "School Board" from the drop down box and
> "Yes" to include "At-Large” Members. One click
> sends your e-mail to the entire School Board. If
> you or anyone you know is interested, please sign
> up to speak on Sat. Feb. 9th at the last day of
> Public Hearings. You can go on the website and
> sign-up and a time slot will be issued.
> In addition, email this letter to your friends and
> neighbors. You can copy this letter, paste it into
> a new email with your own signature (or forward if
> you like) and ask everyone in your email network
> to do the same. In a short period of time, the
> Fairfax County School Board Members will know what
> the parents in our community think.
> Most sincerely,
> Laura Floyd
> Legislation Committee Chair
> VA Run PTA
> P.S. According to Kathy Smith (Sully District’s
> Rep) the School Board is receiving little input
> indicating that Westfield High School needs to be
> smaller. There is resistance from some members to
> make any boundary changes because they’re not
> hearing from parents that it’s needed. So please
> email the School Board and sign-up to speak on
> February 9th.


Esq is right about contingency, wrong on likelihood of success.

Same thing on this for Kathy Smith. Why do opponents of RD complain so much when people from different perspectives voice their opinion? Kathy Smith won,despite opposition of RD opponents and she always say Chantilly and Westfield are too big. Mrs. Floyd is quoting her school board member's position and statements, just like CAPS quotes Raney and Hone. Are they going be recalled too for making comments?

You are inconsistent. Floris Parent says South Lakes parents are bad b/c they disagree with me. Let's stop until they agree with me. That is not democratic. That is anti-democratic.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: URGENT SURVEY ON REDISTRICTING
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:25AM

FairfaxCAPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The following survey (below) on redistricting is
> being circulated by Rona Ackerman, President of
> the Fox Mill Elementary PTA. Rona had previously
> taken the position in Fox Mill Prints and in
> public that the PTA should remain neutral in the
> redistricting debate. She also declined to survey
> PTA members on the issue since she believed it
> would violate this neutrality.
>
> On Saturday, Rona spoke out in favor of moving Fox
> Mill to South Lakes at the public hearing. Then,
> at shortly after 6am this morning, Rona circulated
> the following survey. We STRONGLY encourage you
> to answer this survey at Rona2@cox.net and copy
> info@FairfaxCAPS.org so that we may keep our own
> record of responses. Since some in the community,
> including members of the PTA, had not received
> this survey, we are sending it to all individuals
> on the FairfaxCAPS list. You are encouraged to
> send it to others in the community as well. If
> you have already answered the survey, we would
> encourage you to send a copy of your response to
> FairfaxCAPS so that we may provide our members
> with an independent count. If you receive this
> note after noon today , we also encourage you to
> complete it and return it to both Rona and
> FairfaxCAPS since we believe every voice counts!
>
> Please note: This survey floats the idea of
> splitting Fox Mill. This is the first time this
> idea has been suggested in any public forum to our
> knowledge. We do not know if this is Rona’s idea
> but it is a VERY important development to all of
> us who love Fox Mill Elementary and the Fox Mill
> community!
>
> Thank you very much for your attention!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Fairfax County Coalition of Advocates for Public
> Schools (CAPS)
> jfrost@FairfaxCAPS.org
> www.FairfaxCAPS.org
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rona Ackerman
> To: Rona Ackerman
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 6:10 AM
> Subject: Short Survey - Please respond before
> noon!
>
> 1. Would you be okay with your children going to
> Oakton High School? (Yes or No)
>
> 2. Would you be okay with your children going to
> South Lakes High School (Yes or No)
>
> 3. Would you be okay with half of the Fox Mill ES
> students going to South Lakes and half of the Fox
> Mill ES students going to Oakton? (Yes or No)
>
>
>
> Rona Ackerman

Didn't Fox Mill get a portion of Floris after the roof fell in? Seems reasonable to me that after Coppermine is open that area could end up back at Floris while what is at East Floris will end up elsewhere. McNair could lose the portion attending Herndon High but could gain East Floris.

Shame on the South Lakes PTA since what it did was slam on McNair when it could have gained a major academic asset to any school.

Westfield and Sully = read Smith's base school is Poplar tree. It has residences near the airport. Why isn't the runway [airport] in Smith's base school boundary? I could not help but notice the big fat island for green brier West beneath Poplar Tree. If Lower Greenbriar West was surrounded by water , you'd need a boat. Tisdadt has stuff at various sites. Woodson has DIT-some schools have FCPS gas stations. Since Smith got the square footage maybe Tisdadt will come up with something nice to put in it.

On Bradsher- base school Silverbrook- at a recent school board meeting I found it particularly humorous that Tisdadt mentionned Silverbrook by name because some neighbor who bought in view of school property complained about busses parked there. That is typical of the Stepford HOA people - if you read this Mr T, please park some more busses in that location.



There's a lot of residences directly and almost directly between Chantilly and Westfield High Schools on the map. Oak Hill is above all of them. Oak hill is now the GT center for Floris , Fox mill, McNair, Lees Corner. Hunters Woods with all it's resources only gets Oakton area schools that aren't in this process anymore if ever [Waples mill].

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ACTION NEEDED ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:27AM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RDReporter - Half Million Lawsuit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Even worse, Kathy Smith, another board member,
> > emailed a group of Centerville residents and
> > urged their children, who also attend Westfield
> > HS, to go to the public hearing to claim how
> > overcrowded Westfield is and urged them to kick
> > the Floris kids out of Westfield HS.
>
> Can you provide a copy of that email from Kathy
> Smith to the Centerville residents on this forum?
> If so, please do. I won't comment on Mrs. Smith or
> anyone else until I see that email. But in
> general, I believe that publicly elected
> individuals who instigate in such a manner should
> be removed from office.

Make an FOIA request regarding the above email to Paul.Regnier@fcps.edu

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ToDisbarred ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:27AM

In response to your comment:

"Same thing on this for Kathy Smith. Why do opponents of RD complain so much when people from different perspectives voice their opinion? Kathy Smith won,despite opposition of RD opponents and she always say Chantilly and Westfield are too big. Mrs. Floyd is quoting her school board member's position and statements, just like CAPS quotes Raney and Hone. Are they going be recalled too for making comments?"

If Westfield parents truly feel there is an issue, they would sign up by themselves. Why should Kathy Smith take such bias stand? Aren't school board members supposed to be neutral during the process?

I am in South County and truly feel the pain for those unfortune West County folks. Disbarred, you must be one of those SLHS folks who discriminated against the Title one students from McNair.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:34AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the Kathy Smith instigation.
>

Sorry, I'm against RD, but I don't see any problem with this e-mail. Is there more behind this or is that it?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:39AM

Does anyone have the speaker name and/or number that was allegedly confronted in the lobby afterwards? I'd like to listen to the speech online. Thanks.

Options: ReplyQuote
Where is the instigation
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:42AM

You do not see this part?

Laura Floyd
Legislation Committee Chair
VA Run PTA
P.S. According to Kathy Smith (Sully District’s Rep) the School Board is receiving little input indicating that Westfield High School needs to be smaller. There is resistance from some members to make any boundary changes because they’re not hearing from parents that it’s needed. So please email the School Board and sign-up to speak on February 9th.

Kathy Smith is telling the PTA you need to speak up at the public hearing because we need to lose these 69 Floris kids. She is a SB member and supposed to be neutral in this process. We have same issues with Stu Gibson because he is openly biased towards South Lakes as evident from the public hearing appearances.

Options: ReplyQuote
Public hearing recording online?
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:44AM

Is this available online to see? I missed most of Saturday.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Ayn ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:48AM

"When there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

Great Ayn Rand quote

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ACTION NEEDED ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:54AM

Mr. Regnier

I am making the following FOIA requests.

I would like a copy of the email that was sent by Kathy Smith to a group of Centerville residents in which she urged them to go to the public hearing and state how overcrowded Westfield HS is.

I would like a copy of the email that was sent by Kathy Smith to a PTA in which she describe a child's mother as "vile and toxic ."

Please let me know the cost of this request.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FFC APS SUPPORTER ()
Date: February 11, 2008 11:58AM

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone have the speaker name and/or number
> that was allegedly confronted in the lobby
> afterwards? I'd like to listen to the speech
> online. Thanks.


110

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Where is the instigation
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:04PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You do not see this part?
>
> Laura Floyd
> Legislation Committee Chair
> VA Run PTA
> P.S. According to Kathy Smith (Sully District’s
> Rep) the School Board is receiving little input
> indicating that Westfield High School needs to be
> smaller. There is resistance from some members to
> make any boundary changes because they’re not
> hearing from parents that it’s needed. So please
> email the School Board and sign-up to speak on
> February 9th.

I see Laura Floyd is trying to urge participation by those who support resizing Westfield. I don't see any proof here that Kathy Smith is instigating. I think you have misunderstood this email - nothing wrong here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TitleOneParent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:07PM

After reading the comments about SLHS PTA did not want McNair because they are Title One, I am really pissed here. What do they think they are? They are higher up than anyone else? Typical Reston rich people's attitude towards poor kids. That shows deep in those SLHS high income parents minds that, they did not like to have those low income poor minority kids in SLHS as well, but they can't do anything about it. They are truly a bunch of racists.
I am gone to contact the African American Human Right group in DC to ask them to help those poor kids in SLHS. They are not being helped at all. How does it help them by pulling good students in to pump up the scores? It only makes SLHS look good and definitely help to raise the property values for people who live in Reston. If I am correct, Gibson lives there too so he literally would see his house value increases. Talking about conflict of interest.
It's the poor kids from the project in Reston that will be screwed eventually. SLHS PTA uses them as an excuse for the RD. They USED them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WITNESS ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:19PM

FFC APS SUPPORTER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Does anyone have the speaker name and/or number
> > that was allegedly confronted in the lobby
> > afterwards? I'd like to listen to the speech
> > online. Thanks.
>
>
> 110


It happened, read witness 2 comments.


I was present and it was not exactly as you describe it. Obviously, Liz was worn out by the day's proceedings and going out to confront the speaker, who had just forcefully challenged the school board's competency by providing a litany of future projected underenrollments in West County, was not her finest hour. I believe her comment was something along the lines of "You may be from Brooklyn, but I'm not afraid of you." While some, including the comment's target, may have taken that as a veiled reference to being Italian, she did not say that exactly to my knowledge and there is no way to know precisely what she meant. Frankly, it just sounded pretty crazy. In any event, while that may have won Liz the "doh, why did I do that?" award of the day, it pales by comparison to the three comments about Kathy Smith given in hearing testimony, especially the one where a kid said that Kathy had written an email to others in one of the PTAs describing his mom as "vile and toxic." Can you imagine a public official describing your mother as "vile and toxic" to members of the public and officials of your own PTA because she didn't agree with you on something. Now THAT is reprehensible. But if they won't boot Stu for releasing private information on a student, they probably won't censure her for insulting members of the public either. Shame! Where is Dan "Honest Abe" Storck in bringing some discipline to his wild west board and fighting for union.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:24PM

TitleOneParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After reading the comments about SLHS PTA did not
> want McNair because they are Title One, I am
> really pissed here. What do they think they are?
> They are higher up than anyone else? Typical
> Reston rich people's attitude towards poor kids.
> That shows deep in those SLHS high income parents
> minds that, they did not like to have those low
> income poor minority kids in SLHS as well, but
> they can't do anything about it. They are truly a
> bunch of racists.

If you really are a parent of a Title 1 student get over to Luther Jackson tonight and try to testify for the budget. Call NAACP. Schools with affluent populations are about to get full day kindergarten while at least 1 school with Title 1 and about 40% African American in Alexandria area is getting cheated while other schools that don't need extra resources will continue to get even more. Long term stuff that's been aropund for decades has no proposed redcutions except College Partnership while schools that recently got helpful programs will have cuts. Young Scholars is kind of wishy washy - but focus school stuff is actual like extra reading teachers only math , science.
> I am gone to contact the African American Human
> Right group in DC to ask them to help those poor
> kids in SLHS. They are not being helped at all.
> How does it help them by pulling good students in
> to pump up the scores? It only makes SLHS look
> good and definitely help to raise the property
> values for people who live in Reston. If I am
> correct, Gibson lives there too so he literally
> would see his house value increases. Talking about
> conflict of interest.
> It's the poor kids from the project in Reston that
> will be screwed eventually. SLHS PTA uses them as
> an excuse for the RD. They USED them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldMcNair ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:25PM

TitleOneParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After reading the comments about SLHS PTA did not
> want McNair because they are Title One, I am
> really pissed here. What do they think they are?
> They are higher up than anyone else? Typical
> Reston rich people's attitude towards poor kids.
> That shows deep in those SLHS high income parents
> minds that, they did not like to have those low
> income poor minority kids in SLHS as well, but
> they can't do anything about it. They are truly a
> bunch of racists.
> I am gone to contact the African American Human
> Right group in DC to ask them to help those poor
> kids in SLHS. They are not being helped at all.
> How does it help them by pulling good students in
> to pump up the scores? It only makes SLHS look
> good and definitely help to raise the property
> values for people who live in Reston. If I am
> correct, Gibson lives there too so he literally
> would see his house value increases. Talking about
> conflict of interest.
> It's the poor kids from the project in Reston that
> will be screwed eventually. SLHS PTA uses them as
> an excuse for the RD. They USED them.



Stick to your own business. We are happy at Westfield and don't want SLHS or all Herndon. You don't care about us, only about protecting yourself, you Fox Mill or Oaxton, I am sure of that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TitleOneParent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:31PM

WestfieldMcNair Wrote:

>
> Stick to your own business. We are happy at
> Westfield and don't want SLHS or all Herndon. You
> don't care about us, only about protecting
> yourself, you Fox Mill or Oaxton, I am sure of
> that.

First of all, I live in Chantilly, not Fox Mill. And second of all, I am sure you are not a title I parents who happens to attend McNair. And therefore, you will not care about title one kids anyway.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TitleOneParent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:32PM

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TitleOneParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > After reading the comments about SLHS PTA did
> not
> > want McNair because they are Title One, I am
> > really pissed here. What do they think they
> are?
> > They are higher up than anyone else? Typical
> > Reston rich people's attitude towards poor
> kids.
> > That shows deep in those SLHS high income
> parents
> > minds that, they did not like to have those low
> > income poor minority kids in SLHS as well, but
> > they can't do anything about it. They are truly
> a
> > bunch of racists.
>
> If you really are a parent of a Title 1 student
> get over to Luther Jackson tonight and try to
> testify for the budget. Call NAACP. Schools with
> affluent populations are about to get full day
> kindergarten while at least 1 school with Title 1
> and about 40% African American in Alexandria area
> is getting cheated while other schools that don't
> need extra resources will continue to get even
> more. Long term stuff that's been aropund for
> decades has no proposed redcutions except College
> Partnership while schools that recently got
> helpful programs will have cuts. Young Scholars
> is kind of wishy washy - but focus school stuff is
> actual like extra reading teachers only math ,
> science.
> > I am gone to contact the African American Human
> > Right group in DC to ask them to help those
> poor
> > kids in SLHS. They are not being helped at all.
> > How does it help them by pulling good students
> in
> > to pump up the scores? It only makes SLHS look
> > good and definitely help to raise the property
> > values for people who live in Reston. If I am
> > correct, Gibson lives there too so he literally
> > would see his house value increases. Talking
> about
> > conflict of interest.
> > It's the poor kids from the project in Reston
> that
> > will be screwed eventually. SLHS PTA uses them
> as
> > an excuse for the RD. They USED them.

Taxpayers, when is the meeting?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:56PM

Page 33 and 35:

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/content_storage_01/0000019b/80/1b/cf/f6.pdf

McNair: Do you really want Title I kids to go to a school that already has 33% poor kids rather than Westfield that has 12%? Ask: Who, exactly, is hurt when there are more poor kids at a school?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 11, 2008 12:59PM

Budget public hearing is at 6:30 at Luther jackson middle school . This is more important than boundaries yet less people are interested. See map on link:

http://www.fcps.edu/maps/jackson.htm

click on that link and you will also be able to get driving directions. Bring friends. You had to sign up to testify but can still approach board memebers and stuff when they are on breaks. Maybe people testifying will let you join them for shared issues.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: URGENT SURVEY ON REDISTRICTING
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 11, 2008 01:18PM

taxpayer Wrote:
> ... Tisdadt has stuff at various
> sites. Woodson has DIT-some schools have FCPS gas
> stations. Since Smith got the square footage
> maybe Tisdadt will come up with something nice to
> put in it.
>
> On Bradsher- base school Silverbrook- at a recent
> school board meeting I found it particularly
> humorous that Tisdadt mentionned Silverbrook by
> name because some neighbor who bought in view of
> school property complained about busses parked
> there.

----------
I am not arguing, but I do not understand what you are trying to say. Overcrowded Woodson does have a wing filled with DIT workers (think repairs, not software) and spare parts for the entire county; I hear complaints about that large, fenced-in, and under-filled parking area right next to the school that is reserved just for DIT trucks and the private cars of the workers. It does seem like this repair and maintenance facility could be moved to a school with excess space. Woodson also has a gas station and a huge food warehouse and a cell tower for which the school gets no money. But your point?

I have also heard complaints about buses parked at schools, but can anyone explain the nature of the complaints? Are buses just considered to be ugly? Or are they too noisy when the bus drivers show up at 6 am and warm up their engines? There is a $3.5M bus parking facility in the CIP so someone considers this to be a problem. I just don't understand exactly what it is.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 11, 2008 01:25PM

The point is that if this county spent money on unused space at Westfield then it can be used for something whether or not Westfield PTA ladies like it. Anything else Tisdadt needs to put somewhere? Doesn't he need somewhere for the special ed bus department- might be working out of trailers in Lorton? I don't care if Animal Control sets up shop and rents from the school board. To my recollection the bus was ugly.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 01:26PM

xNnAchievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Page 33 and 35:
>
> http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/
> content_storage_01/0000019b/80/1b/cf/f6.pdf
>
> McNair: Do you really want Title I kids to go to a
> school that already has 33% poor kids rather than
> Westfield that has 12%? Ask: Who, exactly, is hurt
> when there are more poor kids at a school?

Why does everyone keep saying that McNair is full of poor kids? Have you actually been in the McNairs farms community? It is full of beautiful town homes and condo's that are generally 10 years old or newer.

Also, I believe that the latest and greatest data on the FRM students is no longer 33%. On the South Lakes PTSA Web Site, it is now down to only 28%.

http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/SLHSGlance.pdf

This number is going to drop even lower, as more of the families in Reston decide to place their children into South Lakes, now that they have heard so many great things about the school and the new administration etc.

As you can see, there are already 47 students who have placed into SL already this year. (39 are Special Ed though) and so far only 206 have placed out, including 53 who attend TJ.

See attachment for 2006-2007, and 2007-2008 in out figues for all schools in this Bounday study.

I am not sure what Administrative placement means, but South Lakes does seem to have more of these,especially considering the smaller enrollment numbers. Does anyone know what may be a reason for an Administrative placement out of a school?
Attachments:
Mobility in and out from 2.11.2009.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Public hearing recording online?
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 11, 2008 01:41PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this available online to see? I missed most of
> Saturday.

You can listen to the audio files by clicking on the 2/9/08 Public Hearing No.3 left hand side and continue to follow the links.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Where is the instigation
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 11, 2008 01:50PM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You do not see this part?
> >
> > Laura Floyd
> > Legislation Committee Chair
> > VA Run PTA
> > P.S. According to Kathy Smith (Sully District’s
> > Rep) the School Board is receiving little input
> > indicating that Westfield High School needs to
> be
> > smaller. There is resistance from some members
> to
> > make any boundary changes because they’re not
> > hearing from parents that it’s needed. So
> please
> > email the School Board and sign-up to speak on
> > February 9th.
>
> I see Laura Floyd is trying to urge participation
> by those who support resizing Westfield. I don't
> see any proof here that Kathy Smith is
> instigating. I think you have misunderstood this
> email - nothing wrong here.

I agree - seems like a stretch to me. Who in their right mind would sign up to testify anyway if it wasn't something they believed in?

I thought originally the "evidence" that WF/CHS were overcrowded came from community input delivered verbally at meetings. If so, encouraging these people to testify if they really have a problem makes sense so that all the right people are heard.

Anyhow, seems like no one showed up to testify, so it seems moot to me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 01:50PM

Re achievement and poverty rates.

40% of kids in McNair qualify for FRM. Thus, the school qualifies for Title I assistance. This does not count others who qualify but don't sign up, and there is always a percentage of those at any school. 40% are Limited English Proficient (LEP). The mobility rate is 31%.

Hutchison (51% FRM, 48% LEP) is a Title I school going to Herndon. Dogwood (36% FRM. 41% LEP) is a Title I school going to SLHS. These three are the only official Title I schools in the boundary study.

These are the percentages posted on FCPS, but they always vary from actuals because the numbers change throughout the year as school officials work (very hard) to get qualified families to sign up for the assistance they deserve and often need. Unless you have spent time in cafeterias in these schools, you cannot understand that kids come to school having had no breakfast and without lunch, and "borrow" from friends or go without. School staff quietly work with these kids, and often end up using funds set aside for this purpose to buy meals for them. They never go on the books. Thus, the "discrepancy" among official posted numbers (that go there at the beginning of the year) and actual numbers that get updated -- and the real, actual kids who qualify but never end up on numbers charts.

Hope this helps explain why McNair should stay at Westfield. Those kids get more help and support there, and they have a better shot at achievement. The Dogwood and Hutchison kids stay lower percentages of their own schools, and get help and support there and have a better shot at achievement. This issue has nothing to do with whether parents at any of the schools "want" or "don't want" these kids. It has to do with 40 years-worth of studies and factual information -- demonstrated here in this county -- that they are better off being lower percentages of poverty ratios at the schools they attend.

You may live in a different area of McNair. You may not be an FRM family that goes there. But perhaps you ought to be considering the welfare of the kids who are.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 01:53PM

I believe administrative placements are the Zero Tolerance Nazis at work. If a kid screws up-they make his/her life even more disruptive by sending them to another high school.

The Title 1 funding intrigues me-does anyone understand it?? I thought I read that if a school has over 40% FRL than the funding is per all students and if they are under 40% the Title 1 funding is only for the kids who are Title 1 eligible. Does that mean that FCPS has an incentive to keep schools above 40%. I would appreciate some insight if anyone knows how it works. I know FCPS gets $15 million from VA for Title 1 but I plan to look into how it is distributed.

When money is tight, people can get "creative" with numbers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 02:08PM

Here you go:

http://www.ed.gov/programs/titleiparta/index.html

You'll find what you're looking for under "Additional Information."

Re numbers, this is a bit of moving target precisely because those who qualify for assistance frequently don't sign up. It is a matter of pride, communication, or culture. As for the idea that schools artificially might keep those numbers up, I have never heard of this, even among the most cynical teachers and administrators I know (and I do know a few of those). Mostly, I hear how terribly powerless they feel when they see undernourished kids in their schools.

I guess it would be interesting to see which schools "barely" make it over the 40% mark, lending credence to the artificial numbers inflation motive. However, targetted assistance is incredibly resource-intensive to implement -- beyond the ROI. Schoolwide assistance is much easier to manage and it's easier for schools to allocate those funds where the need is. So there may be good reason to tweak numbers up.

Nevertheless, the fact remains that these schools have high poverty ratios and it is in everyone's best interest that the school system work for socioeconomic balance where and when possible.


Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe administrative placements are the Zero
> Tolerance Nazis at work. If a kid screws up-they
> make his/her life even more disruptive by sending
> them to another high school.
>
> The Title 1 funding intrigues me-does anyone
> understand it?? I thought I read that if a school
> has over 40% FRL than the funding is per all
> students and if they are under 40% the Title 1
> funding is only for the kids who are Title 1
> eligible. Does that mean that FCPS has an
> incentive to keep schools above 40%. I would
> appreciate some insight if anyone knows how it
> works. I know FCPS gets $15 million from VA for
> Title 1 but I plan to look into how it is
> distributed.
>
> When money is tight, people can get "creative"
> with numbers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 11, 2008 02:11PM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> xNnAchievement Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Page 33 and 35:
> >
> >
> http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/
>
> > content_storage_01/0000019b/80/1b/cf/f6.pdf
> >
> > McNair: Do you really want Title I kids to go to
> a
> > school that already has 33% poor kids rather
> than
> > Westfield that has 12%? Ask: Who, exactly, is
> hurt
> > when there are more poor kids at a school?
>
> Why does everyone keep saying that McNair is full
> of poor kids? Have you actually been in the
> McNairs farms community? It is full of beautiful
> town homes and condo's that are generally 10 years
> old or newer.
>
> Also, I believe that the latest and greatest data
> on the FRM students is no longer 33%. On the South
> Lakes PTSA Web Site, it is now down to only 28%.
>
> http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/SLHSGlanc
> e.pdf
>
> This number is going to drop even lower, as more
> of the families in Reston decide to place their
> children into South Lakes, now that they have
> heard so many great things about the school and
> the new administration etc.
>
> As you can see, there are already 47 students who
> have placed into SL already this year. (39 are
> Special Ed though) and so far only 206 have placed
> out, including 53 who attend TJ.
>
> See attachment for 2006-2007, and 2007-2008 in out
> figues for all schools in this Bounday study.
>
> I am not sure what Administrative placement means,
> but South Lakes does seem to have more of
> these,especially considering the smaller
> enrollment numbers. Does anyone know what may be a
> reason for an Administrative placement out of a
> school?

Yes I agree McNair is a very nice community of townhomes and condos. I am not from McNair, but my kid has a couple of friends living from McNair. They are bright and well-adjusted. Their parents are disgusted with how the RD has turned out though. Regarding FRM/ESOL percentages, why is it so important for FCPS to use that for the RD? There are I am sure students out there who come from poor backgrounds happen to be very bright. Every student no matter what the race is, poor or not deserves the right kind of education to fit his or her needs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Get it right ()
Date: February 11, 2008 02:27PM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As you can see, there are already 47 students who
> have placed into SL already this year. (39 are
> Special Ed though) and so far only 206 have placed
> out, including 53 who attend TJ.
>
> See attachment for 2006-2007, and 2007-2008 in out
> figues for all schools in this Bounday study.
>
> I am not sure what Administrative placement means,
> but South Lakes does seem to have more of
> these,especially considering the smaller
> enrollment numbers. Does anyone know what may be a
> reason for an Administrative placement out of a
> school?


Here are the actual numbers for South Lakes 2007-2008 Academic Year from the October 17, 2007 report of student transfer data.

Out of SL: 80
In to SL: 50

Where did you get 260?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 02:49PM

OK, back to Title 1 issues. I really don't mean to sound insensitive-I am the most caring and compassionate person you would meet, but I am baffled by the number of families who are classified as FRM. The qualifications for free lunches is 130% of poverty level which is $26,845 for a family of 4. For reduced it is $38,203.

I am sorry, but I honestly don't see how a family of 4 can LIVE in Fairfax County at these income levels. Many lower income families have wages which go unreported and I am guessing that a lot of folks fudge on their financial disclosure forms.

I understand the argument that some families may not want to fill out the forms but I would guess that there is a lot of fraud as well. I do not think that 40 percent of families enrolled in some of these elementary schools are living here making under $38k-it isn't possible.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 02:51PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > xNnAchievement Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Page 33 and 35:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/
>
> >
> > > content_storage_01/0000019b/80/1b/cf/f6.pdf
> > >
> > > McNair: Do you really want Title I kids to go
> to
> > a
> > > school that already has 33% poor kids rather
> > than
> > > Westfield that has 12%? Ask: Who, exactly, is
> > hurt
> > > when there are more poor kids at a school?
> >
> > Why does everyone keep saying that McNair is
> full
> > of poor kids? Have you actually been in the
> > McNairs farms community? It is full of
> beautiful
> > town homes and condo's that are generally 10
> years
> > old or newer.
> >
> > Also, I believe that the latest and greatest
> data
> > on the FRM students is no longer 33%. On the
> South
> > Lakes PTSA Web Site, it is now down to only
> 28%.
> >
> >
> http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/SLHSGlanc
>
> > e.pdf
> >
> > This number is going to drop even lower, as
> more
> > of the families in Reston decide to place their
> > children into South Lakes, now that they have
> > heard so many great things about the school and
> > the new administration etc.
> >
> > As you can see, there are already 47 students
> who
> > have placed into SL already this year. (39 are
> > Special Ed though) and so far only 206 have
> placed
> > out, including 53 who attend TJ.
> >
> > See attachment for 2006-2007, and 2007-2008 in
> out
> > figues for all schools in this Bounday study.
> >
> > I am not sure what Administrative placement
> means,
> > but South Lakes does seem to have more of
> > these,especially considering the smaller
> > enrollment numbers. Does anyone know what may be
> a
> > reason for an Administrative placement out of a
> > school?
>
> Yes I agree McNair is a very nice community of
> townhomes and condos. I am not from McNair, but
> my kid has a couple of friends living from McNair.
> They are bright and well-adjusted. Their parents
> are disgusted with how the RD has turned out
> though. Regarding FRM/ESOL percentages, why is
> it so important for FCPS to use that for the RD?
> There are I am sure students out there who come
> from poor backgrounds happen to be very bright.
> Every student no matter what the race is, poor or
> not deserves the right kind of education to fit
> his or her needs.

Exactly. Which is why it is the school board's responsibility to make sure there is not a high percentage of poor kids in any one school if at all possible, especially if there is a school within reasonable distance that those kids could attend. I'm not sure I understand why poor McNair ES families would want to move from Westfield. The ones I know (I am involved in the Hispanic community in Herndon) want to stay there.

Remember: The "McNair" we're tallking about is the elementary school -- there are neighborhoods that have "McNair" in their names that have varying degrees of socioeconomic status. And thanks to the way Fairfax manages its subsidized housing, many of these neighborhoods look very nice. But the folks in them are working minimum-wage jobs and barely making it.

I suspect that some people who have opinions about this situation have not read the myriad studies that demonstrate uniquivocally that poverty rates have a direct relation to achievement rates. Nothing to do with intelligence levels at all. All to do with nutrition, support at home and school, resources, transportation, etc. As Richard Kahlenberg wrote for Slate in June 2007:

"Significantly, however, income-based integration isn't just a clever proxy for racial integration. For 40 years, researchers have found that the single most important thing you can do to raise the achievement of low-income students is to send them to attend a middle-class school, where classmates tend to have big dreams and make good peers, parents in the community actively volunteer in the school and hold school officials accountable, and good teachers teach based on high expectations.

"Indeed, education research has long suggested that the economic mix of a school matters more than the racial mix in promoting the academic achievement of students. UCLA professor Gary Orfield, a strong proponent of racial desegregation, notes that "educational research suggests that the basic damage inflicted by segregated education comes not from racial concentration but the concentration of children from poor families." This is a better way to further the promise of Brown—and one that the Supreme Court won't lay a glove on."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:03PM

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, back to Title 1 issues. I really don't mean
> to sound insensitive-I am the most caring and
> compassionate person you would meet, but I am
> baffled by the number of families who are
> classified as FRM. The qualifications for free
> lunches is 130% of poverty level which is $26,845
> for a family of 4. For reduced it is $38,203.
>
> I am sorry, but I honestly don't see how a family
> of 4 can LIVE in Fairfax County at these income
> levels. Many lower income families have wages
> which go unreported and I am guessing that a lot
> of folks fudge on their financial disclosure
> forms.
>
> I understand the argument that some families may
> not want to fill out the forms but I would guess
> that there is a lot of fraud as well. I do not
> think that 40 percent of families enrolled in some
> of these elementary schools are living here making
> under $38k-it isn't possible.


They can, and do, at an enormous cost that is invisible to the rest of us. Read the following book: "Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America" by Barbara Eherenreich. She is a journalist who spent several months living on minimum wage, and describes exactly how people do it. It's shocking and it's happening all around us right here. Who else cleans houses and office buildings and hotels around here? Who are the cashiers and clerks and food service workers? Who mows the lawns and blows the leaves and digs the ditches and lays the roads? They are not all "illegals" from Central America. The vast majority are legal citizens from all races and cultures. Many working two jobs. Many divorced and trying to make it without support from the absent parent.

Their kids do not sign up for league sports or Scouts or violin lessons. They do not participate in after-school activities that require parents to pick them up. They do not go home to adults who support their homework activities or are even there to make dinner for them. They share rooms and beds. They don't have computers at home where they can log into Blackboard or do research. They can't get to libraries. They don't hang out at town centers. They do not have a voice. They rely on the rest of us to walk in their shoes. They are invisible.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:04PM

For this RD is if they want to use socio-economic factor as a reason, they should include Langley, Madison. It is not fair that they leave the richest folks, and then use this to exclude McNair.

If you really draw a 3-mile radius from South Lakes, you'll be surprised to see how many schools are excluded. And the Floris kids, well they are not in the 3 mile radius, though the South Lakes folks keep spreading that.

Is this so hard to understand?

Also, it's the part that portraiting McNair as somewhat "bad" just because of its FRL numbers is what makes people upset. Poor students don't equal to poor performance. Many McNair students are from immigration families, and are indeed very bright. It's very unfair to taint McNair kids as some people suggested.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Mike ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:13PM

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For this RD is if they want to use socio-economic
> factor as a reason, they should include Langley,
> Madison. It is not fair that they leave the
> richest folks, and then use this to exclude
> McNair.

I would put it like this - how good is a process where you ask the community to solve a problem, and then state that certain areas are off-limits in developing the solution?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:35PM

I have worked in financial services for 20 years so believe me I am well versed on this topic. DC is very expensive to live so any national comparisons are meaningless. Housing costs are a significant part of lower income folks' budgets.

I stand by my assertion that there is no way that 40% of families in some of these "affluent" (relative to other US cities) communities are making under $38K. If you work 40 hrs a week/50 weeks a year at $8/hr, you are making $16k. Most employers are paying their "lower wage" people $10-$12. FCPS pays bus drivers like $20 an hour!. Did anyone read the WPOST article yesterday about the guy repairing car dents. etc who clocked $130 per year.

FCPS has no incentive to check for fraud-they get Title 1 money based on these numbers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FansOfLawsuits ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:35PM

I can't wait to see the lawsuits get started. I am sure it will reveal a lot of secrets and it would be fun to watch for sure.
The interesting topic is, if the school board does do something wrong, how could that be fair for the county to put up our tax payers money to defend the school board? We, as bystanders, are paying the bill for the county to defend the same people who causes all the flaws in the process. As fun as the show is, I do not want to pay for it. If it does prove that there is corruption going on behind the scene, should the board members who are invovled in the corruption pay for the bill?
The county is running a deficit this year. We, as innocent residents, will end up paying the bill to defend a flawed process? I am not sure if this makes any sense at all. My suggestion is, to have the school board members pay the bills first, and if they are proved innocent, the county remiburses them.
As much as I like to see lawsuits to challenge the school board, I want a free show. I don't want to pay for it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: , ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:37PM

Not so impossible to live here at the poverty rate when you jam 3 families into a single dwelling house.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:51PM

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For this RD is if they want to use socio-economic
> factor as a reason, they should include Langley,
> Madison. It is not fair that they leave the
> richest folks, and then use this to exclude
> McNair.
>
> If you really draw a 3-mile radius from South
> Lakes, you'll be surprised to see how many schools
> are excluded. And the Floris kids, well they are
> not in the 3 mile radius, though the South Lakes
> folks keep spreading that.
>
> Is this so hard to understand?

First, nobody has ever said McNair kids are "bad," for the same reason that one would hope nobody would say Herndon and South Lakes kids are "bad."

Socioeconomic balance was only one of the factors in this study, but it was one of the top four.

Too many kids at Westfield and Chantilly, and too few at South Lakes, was one of the other top four reasons this study was undertaken. You can argue whether Westfield or Chantilly actually have "too many" but they DO have 30 trailers or modular units between them, and the cafeterias, bathrooms, gyms, and hall space to accomodate the kids in those trailers. This allows FCPS to say that "capacity is not an issue" there. When a school has the cafeteria/gym/bathroom space to accomodate trailers, then trailers can become part of the capacity allowance. It's ironic that people claim South Lakes will be "overcrowded" with the new kids, when it has and will need NO trailers or modular units and can accept quite a few and technically be within capacity. If trailers don't put Chantilly/Westfield over-capacity, then they certainly wouldn't put South Lakes over-capacity if it ever came to that.

The bottom line, though, is the desire of FCPS to move schools closer to an ideal population of 2,000 (or within a range with 1,700 gen ed kids being the minimum) that staff have determined to be an ideal student population to give everyone the course selection and scheduling flexibility they deserve while maintaining a school that can be personal and nurturing and managable. With its new addition, Langley is going to reach this desired population. As for commuting, Langley is unusual because the terrain there is semi-rural and properties are acres large. Kids travel way more than 12 miles to school in Loudoun and Fauquier and PW for the same reason they do to Langley. In addition, even if Langley were included in this study, most of the northern neighborhoods going there now would actually be redistricted to Herndon, not South Lakes, if proximity and socioeconomic balance were the criteria in a study including it.

Madison IS being included because of its proximity to South Lakes and the fact that neighbors both to the north and to the south now go there (making it an "island.") In fact, those kids will be united in feeder schools -- they are split now. They are the only ones who go to Wolftrap/Thoreau/Madison (all of them with trailers). Everyone else at Wolftrap goes to Kilmer, then most of them go on to Marshall and a few go to Madison. They would be going to Sunrise Valley ES (with its GT center, no trailers), then Hughes (with its GT center, no trailers), then South Lakes, along with their immediate neighbors.

Floris is in the unfortunate position of being at the vector of three school districts, but it is closest to South Lakes. In addition, when one looks at the actual "redistrictings" that community has undergone, the only group of kids who will be affected by a second redistricting are the rising middle schoolers whose families were redistricted into brand-new Westfield seven years ago when those kids were in primary school or younger. None of the rest of Floris can legitimately say they were "redistricted" more than once before, and certainly not eight times. Going to brand-new Carson ten years ago from Franklin MS doesn't count (very few complained, if any). Having the GT center split and moved from Hughes to Carson doesn't count (and was frankly openly supported). Having the Japanese immersion program moved to Fox Mill doesn't count. Having the GT center opened at Oak Hill doesn't count (and was frankly openly supported). And the kids who went to McNair ES are not being touched by this study.

The other "two" of the eight are this boundary change (affecting only those middle schoolers who never went to any other school, but whose siblings are now at Westfield and will not be affected) and the upcoming Coppermine school. Coppermine is being filled mainly by new and recent housing that is right now being built and is and has been populated by people who knew very well -- or should have known since it was public knowledge -- that Coppermine was coming and Floris ES would be a temporary home. In fact, many of those neighborhoods have expressed excitement about going to a new neighborhood elementary school.



>
> Also, it's the part that portraiting McNair as
> somewhat "bad" just because of its FRL numbers is
> what makes people upset. Poor students don't equal
> to poor performance. Many McNair students are from
> immigration families, and are indeed very bright.
> It's very unfair to taint McNair kids as some
> people suggested.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:54PM

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have worked in financial services for 20 years
> so believe me I am well versed on this topic. DC
> is very expensive to live so any national
> comparisons are meaningless. Housing costs are a
> significant part of lower income folks' budgets.
>
> I stand by my assertion that there is no way that
> 40% of families in some of these "affluent"
> (relative to other US cities) communities are
> making under $38K. If you work 40 hrs a week/50
> weeks a year at $8/hr, you are making $16k. Most
> employers are paying their "lower wage" people
> $10-$12. FCPS pays bus drivers like $20 an hour!.
> Did anyone read the WPOST article yesterday about
> the guy repairing car dents. etc who clocked $130
> per year.
>
> FCPS has no incentive to check for fraud-they get
> Title 1 money based on these numbers.

I am now wondering how FCPS got the Title 1 money for McNair..how did they know when McNair ES was being built that the school was going to be a Title 1 school? And I believe that some people commit fraud with filling out FRM forms..I mean some FRM numbers are pretty high from some schools. Which is why I am scratching my head and thinking why is it so necessary to use FRM/ESOL stuff when doing a RD?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 03:57PM

, Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not so impossible to live here at the poverty rate
> when you jam 3 families into a single dwelling
> house.

Exactly.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 11, 2008 04:13PM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For this RD is if they want to use
> socio-economic
> > factor as a reason, they should include
> Langley,
> > Madison. It is not fair that they leave the
> > richest folks, and then use this to exclude
> > McNair.
> >
> > If you really draw a 3-mile radius from South
> > Lakes, you'll be surprised to see how many
> schools
> > are excluded. And the Floris kids, well they
> are
> > not in the 3 mile radius, though the South
> Lakes
> > folks keep spreading that.
> >
> > Is this so hard to understand?
>
> First, nobody has ever said McNair kids are "bad,"
> for the same reason that one would hope nobody
> would say Herndon and South Lakes kids are "bad."
>
> Socioeconomic balance was only one of the factors
> in this study, but it was one of the top four.
>
Check the pro-RD folks comments about McNair.

> Too many kids at Westfield and Chantilly, and too
> few at South Lakes, was one of the other top four
> reasons this study was undertaken. You can argue
> whether Westfield or Chantilly actually have "too
> many" but they DO have 30 trailers or modular
> units between them, and the cafeterias, bathrooms,
> gyms, and hall space to accomodate the kids in
> those trailers. This allows FCPS to say that
> "capacity is not an issue" there. When a school
> has the cafeteria/gym/bathroom space to accomodate
> trailers, then trailers can become part of the
> capacity allowance. It's ironic that people claim
> South Lakes will be "overcrowded" with the new
> kids, when it has and will need NO trailers or
> modular units and can accept quite a few and
> technically be within capacity. If trailers don't
> put Chantilly/Westfield over-capacity, then they
> certainly wouldn't put South Lakes over-capacity
> if it ever came to that.
>

Westfield is expanded to a *permanent* capacity of 3100. FCPS's capacity doesn't include trailers for Westfield. Even with Kathy's email, we heard from Westfield kids that overwhelmingly that the school is not crowded.

> The bottom line, though, is the desire of FCPS to
> move schools closer to an ideal population of
> 2,000 (or within a range with 1,700 gen ed kids
> being the minimum) that staff have determined to
> be an ideal student population to give everyone
> the course selection and scheduling flexibility
> they deserve while maintaining a school that can
> be personal and nurturing and managable. With its
> new addition, Langley is going to reach this
> desired population. As for commuting, Langley is
> unusual because the terrain there is semi-rural
> and properties are acres large. Kids travel way
> more than 12 miles to school in Loudoun and
> Fauquier and PW for the same reason they do to
> Langley. In addition, even if Langley were
> included in this study, most of the northern
> neighborhoods going there now would actually be
> redistricted to Herndon, not South Lakes, if
> proximity and socioeconomic balance were the
> criteria in a study including it.
>

Explain the county's malpractice to build Chantilly, Westfield and South County all above 2500 capacity and decide to use this 25 years old guideline for new schools in this RD study.

> Madison IS being included because of its proximity
> to South Lakes and the fact that neighbors both to
> the north and to the south now go there (making it
> an "island.") In fact, those kids will be united
> in feeder schools -- they are split now. They are
> the only ones who go to Wolftrap/Thoreau/Madison
> (all of them with trailers). Everyone else at
> Wolftrap goes to Kilmer, then most of them go on
> to Marshall and a few go to Madison. They would be
> going to Sunrise Valley ES (with its GT center, no
> trailers), then Hughes (with its GT center, no
> trailers), then South Lakes, along with their
> immediate neighbors.
>
Look at the map, there are other schools in Madison and Oakton pyramids that are withing 3 miles distance, yet all of them are untouchable.

> Floris is in the unfortunate position of being at
> the vector of three school districts, but it is
> closest to South Lakes. In addition, when one
> looks at the actual "redistrictings" that
> community has undergone, the only group of kids
> who will be affected by a second redistricting are
> the rising middle schoolers whose families were
> redistricted into brand-new Westfield seven years
> ago when those kids were in primary school or
> younger. None of the rest of Floris can
> legitimately say they were "redistricted" more
> than once before, and certainly not eight times.
> Going to brand-new Carson ten years ago from
> Franklin MS doesn't count (very few complained, if
> any). Having the GT center split and moved from
> Hughes to Carson doesn't count (and was frankly
> openly supported). Having the Japanese immersion
> program moved to Fox Mill doesn't count. Having
> the GT center opened at Oak Hill doesn't count
> (and was frankly openly supported). And the kids
> who went to McNair ES are not being touched by
> this study.
>
First, Floris is not closest to South Lakes. Most people in East Floris is at least 5 miles away from South Lakes.

Did you see the lady with all the sport shirts from different schools on 2/9?
Do you realize Floris or East Floris is a mature community with no new development since 2001, with the exception of 14 townhomes in 2006? Does that tell you many of the residents have to live through all these changes? How would the South Lakes folks feel, if they are sent to other schools every couple of years? If this RD goes through, there will be folks with 3 children graduating from 3 high schools. Do you realize how hard Floris parents fight to stay together? I guess that's why Floris is so united, enough is enough.


> The other "two" of the eight are this boundary
> change (affecting only those middle schoolers who
> never went to any other school, but whose siblings
> are now at Westfield and will not be affected) and
> the upcoming Coppermine school. Coppermine is
> being filled mainly by new and recent housing that
> is right now being built and is and has been
> populated by people who knew very well -- or
> should have known since it was public knowledge --
> that Coppermine was coming and Floris ES would be
> a temporary home. In fact, many of those
> neighborhoods have expressed excitement about
> going to a new neighborhood elementary school.
>
>
>
Again, the newest community except the two rows of townhomes in East Floris was finished in 2001. I doubt anyone moved in knew about Coppermine at the time. Again, it brings up the topic of Floris or East Floris being unfairly targeted. Are there other developed communitied shifted around for no reasons related to Floris?

> >
> > Also, it's the part that portraiting McNair as
> > somewhat "bad" just because of its FRL numbers
> is
> > what makes people upset. Poor students don't
> equal
> > to poor performance. Many McNair students are
> from
> > immigration families, and are indeed very
> bright.
> > It's very unfair to taint McNair kids as some
> > people suggested.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ,, ()
Date: February 11, 2008 04:16PM

Your puppet squabble is tainted for your own purposes.

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> > The bottom line, though, is the desire of FCPS to
> move schools closer to an ideal population of
> 2,000 (or within a range with 1,700 gen ed kids
> being the minimum) that staff have determined to
> be an ideal student population to give everyone
> the course selection and scheduling flexibility
> they deserve while maintaining a school that can
> be personal and nurturing and managable. With its
> new addition, Langley is going to reach this
> desired population. As for commuting, Langley is
> unusual because the terrain there is semi-rural
> and properties are acres large. Kids travel way
> more than 12 miles to school in Loudoun and
> Fauquier and PW for the same reason they do to
> Langley. In addition, even if Langley were
> included in this study, most of the northern
> neighborhoods going there now would actually be
> redistricted to Herndon, not South Lakes, if
> proximity and socioeconomic balance were the
> criteria in a study including it.
>
This is a load of crap. What do you propose doing about MArshall and Mt. Vernon and Falls Church and all the others that are well below 2000. Should Westfield and Chantilly pony up some warm bodies to bus over to these schools to up the enrollment numbers?
>
> Floris is in the unfortunate position of being at
> the vector of three school districts, but it is
> closest to South Lakes. In addition, when one
> looks at the actual "redistrictings" that
> community has undergone, the only group of kids
> who will be affected by a second redistricting are
> the rising middle schoolers whose families were
> redistricted into brand-new Westfield seven years
> ago when those kids were in primary school or
> younger. None of the rest of Floris can
> legitimately say they were "redistricted" more
> than once before, and certainly not eight times.
> Going to brand-new Carson ten years ago from
> Franklin MS doesn't count (very few complained, if
> any). Having the GT center split and moved from
> Hughes to Carson doesn't count (and was frankly
> openly supported). Having the Japanese immersion
> program moved to Fox Mill doesn't count. Having
> the GT center opened at Oak Hill doesn't count
> (and was frankly openly supported). And the kids
> who went to McNair ES are not being touched by
> this study.
>
And so is this... It wouldn't be unfortunate if the school board would leave us alone for a change. Using your logic, isn't Crossfields at a similar unfortunate location? and how about McNair? What about Aldrin and Armstrong? Oh, that's right, these don't fit your narrow-minded world. And no, South Lakes is not the closest for Floris. There are 3 other schools that are closer. Have you ever considered that it is families and communities that are affected by mulitple changes? And why do all these things not count? Because you didn't participate? Of course they don't count to you, but to the FAMILIES that live in the area, IT DOES. If you don't mind, let the folks from Floris speak for themselves. You can go back to your little lake and paddle that kayak some more. Your fairy tale view of the world doesn't hold together beyond the splashing fountains.

> The other "two" of the eight are this boundary
> change (affecting only those middle schoolers who
> never went to any other school, but whose siblings
> are now at Westfield and will not be affected) and
> the upcoming Coppermine school. Coppermine is
> being filled mainly by new and recent housing that
> is right now being built and is and has been
> populated by people who knew very well -- or
> should have known since it was public knowledge --
> that Coppermine was coming and Floris ES would be
> a temporary home. In fact, many of those
> neighborhoods have expressed excitement about
> going to a new neighborhood elementary school.
>
> Yippy, they should also be looking forward to going to a new high school. For it is more appropriate to align Coppermine with South Lakes than it is to move settled families from Westfield just to make room for unknown future Coppermine residents. How come this was never on the table?


>
>

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 11, 2008 04:36PM

Achievement Wrote:
> ...The bottom line, though, is the desire of FCPS to
> move schools closer to an ideal population of
> 2,000 (or within a range with 1,700 gen ed kids
> being the minimum) that staff have determined to
> be an ideal student population to give everyone
> the course selection and scheduling flexibility
> they deserve while maintaining a school that can
> be personal and nurturing and managable. ...

A minimum of 1700 TOTAL students is conceivable, but not 1700 Gen Ed.

On 28 Sep 2007 FCPS had 12,473 Spec Ed students, an average of 520 per pyramid, or about 175 per high school.

Every high school has its share of Special Ed students. It certainly would not be "fair" to bus Spec Ed students further away from home and only to schools with "excess" room for them!

1500 Gen Ed students per high school is therefore about the highest minimum goal that can be expected given the capacity of the smaller FCPS base high schools:
Marshall 1,500
Stuart 1,650
Edison 1,675
So County 1,700
McLean 1,725
Lee 1,850
Madison 1,875
Capacities & balances include modular additions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 04:38PM

Families are required to list ALL adults living in a household and include them in the income figure. So if you have extended families in a house all the income is supposed to be reported. Look at the Fairfax County census data for 2006-only 5% of families earn under 25K. 9.6% earn between 25k and 50k-if you split that (since the cutoff is 38K-almost the midpoint), that is about 10% of families qualifying for FRM-certainly nowhere near 40%.

I just think it is interesting that no one bothers to verify the accuracy of the applications.

Someone please explain how Marshall and other smaller schools have managed the curriculum with so few students?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 04:45PM

Re the lady with the T-shirts: The only explanation for all those shirts is that she has GT kids. I wouldn't consider that a hardship. I also have to wonder if she objected to moving into brand-new schools. The fact is that this part of the county was growing, as several noted above, and anybody moving here would have to know that. This is a county-wide school system that is subject to boundary changes to accommodate population growth and shifts, and that, too has been happening here for decades. Otherwise everyone at Carson and Westfield would be in dozens and dozens of trailers at Franklin and Chantilly.

I'd caution folks to realize that much of America has absolutely no input into these matters. Boundary changes happen everywhere, including Loudoun County, 100% at the discretion of school staffs and school boards. Perhaps the problem here is that FCPS takes public input. Perhaps it shouldn't. Then we might all pay far more attention to the policies and decision processes themselves and seek to change them by working with the staff or by paying attention to positions our board candidates take. Or pay attention to where we live by choosing areas where any school our kids would go to would be good. (But I do believe I heard dozens of parents say they did exactly that -- and chose THIS county.)

Taking public input does not mean, and has never been represented to mean, that the majority opinion rules, or that the most vocal opinion rules, or even that the most reasonable individual opinion rules. Staff and school boards have way more to consider than any single neighborhood or family does. Input is just that. Input. Not voting privileges for our choice of schools. If that's what the community wants, then that's what it should advocate for. Until that voting system is in place and one elects officials that support that and change the system, then one must work with what one has.

Or one could try to sue one's way to that result. As one could try to sue one's way anywhere when one simply objects to the outcome. (Who among the lawsuit-mongers filed against the school system's boundary process when Carson was built and Floris was redistricted? It appears that the outcome of that process was quite acceptable.)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 04:57PM

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Families are required to list ALL adults living in
> a household and include them in the income figure.
> So if you have extended families in a house all
> the income is supposed to be reported. Look at
> the Fairfax County census data for 2006-only 5% of
> families earn under 25K. 9.6% earn between 25k
> and 50k-if you split that (since the cutoff is
> 38K-almost the midpoint), that is about 10% of
> families qualifying for FRM-certainly nowhere near
> 40%.
>
> I just think it is interesting that no one bothers
> to verify the accuracy of the applications.
>
> Someone please explain how Marshall and other
> smaller schools have managed the curriculum with
> so few students?


They don't. They have the very same schedule flexibility and course offering problems South Lakes does. The school board knows this. The situation here is that there is a well-defined and geographically described boundary change that could address the issues with the schools involved now, with very little disruption (especially compared with what has happened in other RDs in other pyramids.) 700 kids over four years is a very small disruption.

Marshall and the other small schools would deeply desire having a larger population to help with their scheduling, course offerings, and socioeconomic balance. Marshall, for example, has a hodge-podge of communities coming to it, loosely called "Tyson's Corner" (which certainly does not conjure up friendly township geography.) It has a different demographic as well,and an excellent principal who has been there quite awhile to make the best of it. Ask him if he'd like some of Madison's family to relieve that school? He'd say YES in a heartbeat!

The focus has been on this pyramid in this boundary study. One cannot conjure up comparisons with other schools -- and their unique demographics and pyramid "flavors" -- and try to compare those apples with this orange. There has been a great deal of information from the school staff on what's going on elsewhere, as well, and what issues other schools face and what's being done now or planned to be done to address them.

Again, the issues at hand can be resolved this year with minimum disruption to communities that would in any case be involved exactly the same way in any future review of these boundaries.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FEP ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:01PM

Mike,
After I heard Kathy Smith's statement regarding WHS's over-crowded "problem" at the first SB meeting, I wrote to her (cc to other board members) next morning and told her that's false statement (because I am a WHS parent). I told her I attended all 3 TH meetings. If there's a problem, concerned WHS parents/students should attend the meetings and speak for their rights. I think that may trigger her to contact some centreville parents including that VA Run PTA president. She's a crying baby who making her own noise.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exactly ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:02PM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Re the lady with the T-shirts: The only
> explanation for all those shirts is that she has
> GT kids. I wouldn't consider that a hardship. I
> also have to wonder if she objected to moving into
> brand-new schools. The fact is that this part of
> the county was growing, as several noted above,
> and anybody moving here would have to know that.
> This is a county-wide school system that is
> subject to boundary changes to accommodate
> population growth and shifts, and that, too has
> been happening here for decades. Otherwise
> everyone at Carson and Westfield would be in
> dozens and dozens of trailers at Franklin and
> Chantilly.
>
> I'd caution folks to realize that much of America
> has absolutely no input into these matters.
> Boundary changes happen everywhere, including
> Loudoun County, 100% at the discretion of school
> staffs and school boards. Perhaps the problem here
> is that FCPS takes public input. Perhaps it
> shouldn't. Then we might all pay far more
> attention to the policies and decision processes
> themselves and seek to change them by working with
> the staff or by paying attention to positions our
> board candidates take. Or pay attention to where
> we live by choosing areas where any school our
> kids would go to would be good. (But I do believe
> I heard dozens of parents say they did exactly
> that -- and chose THIS county.)
>
> Taking public input does not mean, and has never
> been represented to mean, that the majority
> opinion rules, or that the most vocal opinion
> rules, or even that the most reasonable individual
> opinion rules. Staff and school boards have way
> more to consider than any single neighborhood or
> family does. Input is just that. Input. Not voting
> privileges for our choice of schools. If that's
> what the community wants, then that's what it
> should advocate for. Until that voting system is
> in place and one elects officials that support
> that and change the system, then one must work
> with what one has.
>
> Or one could try to sue one's way to that result.
> As one could try to sue one's way anywhere when
> one simply objects to the outcome. (Who among the
> lawsuit-mongers filed against the school system's
> boundary process when Carson was built and Floris
> was redistricted? It appears that the outcome of
> that process was quite acceptable.)


Feels like I am living in China or Russia 40 years ago. You are lucky if you have a chance to speak but your opinion never count.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:11PM

Lee Parent: I agree that all kinds of citizen fraud, related to such things as FRM qualifications and listing a sham residence in a desired school district (I personally know of two parents who do that to get kids into high-TJ placement middle schools), etc. should be reviewed.

But I would strongly argue that the numbers of fraudulent cases found would be so minor it would not be worth the tax money to do this. The percentage of close-to-poverty families would not change significantly. If we step back, the issue remains: How do we best serve these kids, as a county board, as FCPS, as their fellow humans? They are here, they are here in larger numbers than most realize, and they deserve equitable care.

Most taxpayers in this county support the school board (and vote for school bonds) because they know this group of committed people is charged with stewardship of all the children and with considering the greater good -- they know we vote them in to use their best judgment with the best information available in a naturally flawed system. For what system does not have its flaws?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:15PM

Achievement-

While I appreciate your many insightful comments, I think you are being a bit dishonest during this process. You refuse to acknowledge that there have been any missteps or inappropriate acts by the parties involved. As far as how "lucky" we are that FCPS has included the public in the process-that is still debatable. Let me offer a comparison from Montgomery County Public Schools- which is probably the best comparison to our school district given the similar demographics.

From their Bounday Study Process manual:

"The purpose of community involvement in school boundary studies is to solicit community input for the superintendent to review prior to making a boundary change recommendation to The Board of Education. Cluster coordinators work with their PTA representatives to serve on a boundary advisory committee. In addition high school student representatives may serve on high school boundary studies. School PTAs may also attach position papers to the committee report."

I might be mistaken here, but other than South Lakes PTA-did any other schools have a say in the matter? It seems like Dale's cronies came up with the plan and then asked for community input. The complete opposite of the thinking in Montgomery County. I honestly don't understand the way FCPS manages their affairs-it is positively dictatorial.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:15PM

I had advanced the argument about reducing the proportion of FRL at SL as a justification for the RD on this forum multiple times in the past.

Until, that is, another person posted a chart here that showed that, County-wide, the increase in HS FRL achievement was not observed (except at Stuart) unless the FRL percentage was below 15% of a school's population.

Since Option 5 leaves both SL and Herndon above this threshold, improving FRL achievement at either school cannot be a rational basis for the RD.

Since Option 5 will overenroll SL by 2-300 kids by 2013, and since SL appears to already have a disproportionate share of teachers, I'm really at a loss to explain why this RD must be done this month.

Is the SB overenrolling SL so as to turn Westfield into a secondary school next year?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Not Jack Dale ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:19PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had advanced the argument about reducing the
> proportion of FRL at SL as a justification for the
> RD on this forum multiple times in the past.
>
> Until, that is, another person posted a chart here
> that showed that, County-wide, the increase in HS
> FRL achievement was not observed (except at
> Stuart) unless the FRL percentage was below 15% of
> a school's population.
>
> Since Option 5 leaves both SL and Herndon above
> this threshold, improving FRL achievement at
> either school cannot be a rational basis for the
> RD.
>
> Since Option 5 will overenroll SL by 2-300 kids by
> 2013, and since SL appears to already have a
> disproportionate share of teachers, I'm really at
> a loss to explain why this RD must be done this
> month.
>
> Is the SB overenrolling SL so as to turn Westfield
> into a secondary school next year?

Option 5 is dead...

They are on Option 11b and 12.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exactly ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:19PM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Most taxpayers in this county support the school
> board (and vote for school bonds) because they
> know this group of committed people is charged
> with stewardship of all the children and with
> considering the greater good -- they know we vote
> them in to use their best judgment with the best
> information available in a naturally flawed
> system.

This redistrict process has led most people to believe the exact opposite. Your postings are exactly the kind of reasons they make this judgment.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:21PM

Showing up for a couple of meetings, voting, and going home is not what democracy is about. In this country, it was put in place NOT to force majority rule, but to protect the rights of the minority. Democracy does not mean "voting on everything," either. The heart of democracy is being engaged in one's community throughout its life and in all the systems that matter.

It is about sharing responsibility for all our public institutions, every day. That, in fact, is exactly why Russia and China and North Korea and so many other countries are not democracies, yet they ALL have "input" and "voting" systems. It is about continuous engagement.

Again, "majority" rule is NOT the definition of democracy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:23PM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lee Parent: I agree that all kinds of citizen
> fraud, related to such things as FRM
> qualifications and listing a sham residence in a
> desired school district (I personally know of two
> parents who do that to get kids into high-TJ
> placement middle schools), etc. should be
> reviewed.
>
> But I would strongly argue that the numbers of
> fraudulent cases found would be so minor it would
> not be worth the tax money to do this. The
> percentage of close-to-poverty families would not
> change significantly. If we step back, the issue
> remains: How do we best serve these kids, as a
> county board, as FCPS, as their fellow humans?
> They are here, they are here in larger numbers
> than most realize, and they deserve equitable
> care.
>
> Most taxpayers in this county support the school
> board (and vote for school bonds) because they
> know this group of committed people is charged
> with stewardship of all the children and with
> considering the greater good -- they know we vote
> them in to use their best judgment with the best
> information available in a naturally flawed
> system. For what system does not have its flaws?


AChievement, I am guessing you are a SL supporter so speaking of boundary studies and flaws, while it may be true that there have been boundary studies and redistrictings as the norm in the Fairfax County, but this particular redistricting, many of us are seeing this as very flawed. For example, how did the final option #5 end up being posted at SLHS before it was publicly announced via fcps? Or how about two years ago when students at SLHS knew that south Herndon students would be coming to their school? There have been posts from these students from SL talking about that from the website, Schoolmatters. Constant redistrictings especially for the Floris community has become very disillusioning to them. If only this boundary study was carried out the proper way such as INCLUDING all of the high schools in the West county (after all the boundary study was called "West Fairfax County Boundary Study" or somewhere along the line. It is all about choices and again, if this RD goes through, this is probably going to be one of the biggest flops fcps would have come up with to help SL with its goals.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exactly ()
Date: February 11, 2008 05:33PM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Showing up for a couple of meetings, voting, and
> going home is not what democracy is about. In this
> country, it was put in place NOT to force majority
> rule, but to protect the rights of the minority.
> Democracy does not mean "voting on everything,"
> either. The heart of democracy is being engaged in
> one's community throughout its life and in all the
> systems that matter.
>
> It is about sharing responsibility for all our
> public institutions, every day. That, in fact, is
> exactly why Russia and China and North Korea and
> so many other countries are not democracies, yet
> they ALL have "input" and "voting" systems. It is
> about continuous engagement.
>
> Again, "majority" rule is NOT the definition of
> democracy.


So in this country, democracy is achieved by monarch. Why bother with the town hall meetings and hearings?

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: PreviousFirst...949596979899100101102103104...LastNext
Current Page: 99 of 189


Your Name: 
Your Email (Optional): 
Subject: 
Attach a file
  • No file can be larger than 75 MB
  • All files together cannot be larger than 300 MB
  • 30 more file(s) can be attached to this message
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **      **  **      **   *******    *******   **     ** 
 **  **  **  **  **  **  **     **  **     **  **     ** 
 **  **  **  **  **  **  **     **  **     **  **     ** 
 **  **  **  **  **  **   ********   ********  **     ** 
 **  **  **  **  **  **         **         **   **   **  
 **  **  **  **  **  **  **     **  **     **    ** **   
  ***  ***    ***  ***    *******    *******      ***    
This forum powered by Phorum.