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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:07PM

Why would South Lakes families not sign a petition entitled "We Support Redistricting?" Please don't accuse Castro of subterfuge. She did no such thing.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:09PM

Chantilly held a info meeting last night on honors and AP classes. Never any mention that there might not be any honors classes. Since they were discussing taking honors classes I would assume that they will continue.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:09PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader, remember when you compare tests
> taken that many two-year IB courses only have one
> test given ...

-------------

Of course I remember. Two years of AP English will, on the average, earn twice as much college recognition as two years of HL English. That's one reason many of us prefer AP.

How many HL (two-year) exams have been given at South Lakes? Data for the last three years would be nice.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:12PM

"I know you don't want to hear the "aging in place" argument. Just because you don't want to hear it, doesn't mean it's not true. If you lived here, you would know it to be true, when you see all the empty nesters around. They simply don't want to leave.

Also,the McKibben report shows that Westfield and Oakton have many more younger families, many fewer empty nesters. Don't have the numbers here, you can check the board docs--Staff's response to the "exodus"."

Actually,the McKibben report shows no such thing...it clearly shows that in the 2000 census data, the average age of the population in the Oakton district is older (40's) than in South Lakes(30's), and the number of children 0-4 is higher in South Lakes than it is in Oakton. Conversely, the high school age population in South Lakes is lower than in Oakton, with child population decreasing as they get older.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:16PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> I agree that writing should be emphasized in all
> schools. But the IB program has the advantage
> that it enforces this.
>
> Perhaps the cost of IB will go down as more kids
> take the exams, which is happening. It could be
> just a matter of momentum. As I said, we should
> consider AP, but you APers should also really
> consider IB.

Dr. Dale and the School Board are in the position to enforce the teaching of English at all grades to all students. [In my opinion, that should be their number one goal.]

IB cost does not go down with numbers.

AP is increasing four times as fast in FCPS as IB.

We HAVE considered IB and we DO NOT WANT IT. [Why do you not understand this point?]

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:16PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would South Lakes families not sign a petition
> entitled "We Support Redistricting?" Please don't
> accuse Castro of subterfuge. She did no such
> thing.

It was presented to me as a list of "Fox Mill" parents who supported going to SHLS and that there were 200 or so of them and that the list was proof that the majority of Fox Mill wanted to go to SL.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ParentOf4 ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:19PM

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillUnited Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really really don't like the Kathy 11b. It
> > splits up everyone in the school. I am upset
> that
> > Fox Mill is being split. I don't care if we go
> to
> > south lakes or oakton or westfield. But keep us
> > together. I think if Floris said don't split us
> > but we don't care where we go, they might have
> > been able to stay together for Westfield or
> even
> > south lakes. But they said no to South Lakes so
> > now they might be split. I think about it and I
> > think I would rather also not drive all the way
> to
> > Oakton. I do everything in Fox Mill Shopping
> > center or in Reston or in Herndon. So why drive
> so
> > far? And my little ones have friends who go to
> > Hunters Woods, so we know families who will go
> to
> > South Lakes.
> >
> > I wish I had time to think about this more. I
> have
> > to talk to my friends.
>
>
> You Fox Mill people deserve to be split up. You
> have a smart lady Erika used our Reston residents
> signature to come up a 500 signature petition and
> showed that to the school board during the public
> hearing. SB must be hearing and agreed with her.
> Now, you are split up. I guess after all, you Fox
> Mill people are not that smart anyway. Please take
> care of your house before coming to SLHS. We don't
> want your kids. Our kids are much smarter than
> yours. At least SLHS never be divided.
> Fox Mill and Floris parents, you deserve it. That
> what the world does to nerds.


Your parents must be proud of you.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 05:26PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > I agree that writing should be emphasized in
> all
> > schools. But the IB program has the advantage
> > that it enforces this.
> >
> > Perhaps the cost of IB will go down as more
> kids
> > take the exams, which is happening. It could
> be
> > just a matter of momentum. As I said, we
> should
> > consider AP, but you APers should also really
> > consider IB.
>
> Dr. Dale and the School Board are in the position
> to enforce the teaching of English at all grades
> to all students.
>
> IB cost does not go down with numbers.
>
> AP is increasing four times as fast in FCPS as
> IB.
>
> We HAVE considered IB and we DO NOT WANT IT.


And how did you consider it? Did you go to the meetings, engaged people who have actual experience with it, truly looked at it with an open mind?

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 05:30PM

The exodus theory is based on the premise that the 5-9 year old age
group when extropolated over 8 years would give SLHS 2500 kids. Where
do the kids go?

For a real analysis, CAPS should have done the same number crunching with the other schools. Either they didn't, which proves they are incompetent as analysts, or they did, and found that it didn't support their argument, so they are liars by omission.

So we crunched the numbers.

When the same methodology is applied to the other high schools, you
would find that Chantilly would have 3500 kids but now has 2700, that
Oakton would have 3000 kids, that Westfield would have 4200 kids.
They must also be having an exodus?

The same report shows the following demographics:
single person households-
Chantilly 14%
Oakton 16%
SL 30%
Westfield 16%

I doubt the single person holdhold is a high school student.

Seniors - 65 or older
Oakton 6%
SL 12%
Westfield 5%
Chantilly 6%

Supports aging in place, doesn't it?

Percent of households with people under the age of 18 -

Chantilly - 49%
Oakton - 43%
Westfield - 50%
SLHS 30%



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 05:40PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:32PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP asks:
>
> "Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors courses
> are being eliminated at AP schools?"
>
> That doesn't seem to be the case at Oakton.
> Honors classes are presently offered consistent
> with previous years.

----------------
For parents of children in AP schools: Check your own child's catalog for next year. Plese let us know what it says.

It appears "honors" ninth and tenth grade English and social studies courses are being re-titled "pre-AP" while math and science will still be called "honors."

A few years back they were all called GT classes, but we were told then that "GT" sounded "exclusionary" and the colleges like to see the name "honors" instead.

I have recently received e-mails that indicate:
"Some schools offer Pre-AP and others with IB programs offer Pre-IB, although they are basically the same course and both prepare our students for advanced academic courses, whether they are AP or IB."

"We are looking for consistency and for a title that will reflect the courses."

"There will be no change in the courses, only the course titles."

To make this all the more confusing, it appears the IBO does NOT want FCPS to call courses "pre-IB." So will those courses be called "Pre-AP" or "honors"?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:37PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> Did you go to the
> meetings, engaged people who have actual
> experience with it, truly looked at it with an
> open mind?

Yes, yes, and yes. I was leaning towards IB until I found out more about it. Why is this so hard for you to understand? "Try it, you'll like it" does not always work.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 05:41PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > Did you go to the
> > meetings, engaged people who have actual
> > experience with it, truly looked at it with an
> > open mind?
>
> Yes, yes, and yes. I was leaning towards IB until
> I found out more about it. Why is this so hard for
> you to understand? "Try it, you'll like it" does
> not always work.



OK.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:45PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The exodus theory is based on the premise that the
> 5-9 year old age
> group when extropolated over 8 years would give
> SLHS 2500 kids. Where
> do the kids go?
>
> For a real analysis, CAPS should have done the
> same number crunching with the other schools.
> Either they didn't, which proves they are
> incompetent as analysts, or they did, and found
> that it didn't support their argument, so they are
> liars by omission.
>
> So we crunched the numbers.
>
> When the same methodology is applied to the other
> high schools, you
> would find that Chantilly would have 3500 kids but
> now has 2700, that
> Oakton would have 3000 kids, that Westfield would
> have 4200 kids.
> They must also be having an exodus?
>
> The same report shows the following demographics:
> single person households-
> Chantilly 14%
> Oakton 16%
> SL 30%
> Westfield 16%
>
> I doubt the single person holdhold is a high
> school student.
>
> Seniors - 65 or older
> Oakton 6%
> SL 12%
> Westfield 5%
> Chantilly 6%
>
> Supports aging in place, doesn't it?
>
> Percent of households with people under the age of
> 18 -
>
> Chantilly - 49%
> Oakton - 43%
> Westfield - 50%
> SLHS 30%

Hey SLPP

Nice data set.

Do you understand this data to explain why the 12 year old (6th graders) aren't getting to SL?

This data clearly demonstrates that 6th graders aren't getting to SL because apparently they are moving out.

It doesn't tell me why.

Is it Railly's revenge, IB or lack of 3,000 square foot sfd in the SL attendance area?

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 05:53PM

Tm,
It could be partly IB, though I don't think that would account for a lot. Partly, it's Hughes and SL's undeserved reputation, as we've witnessed throughout this process.

I think that it is partly that we have a more transient population, especially in the townhomes and condos. Personal experience tells me that people with small kids live in townhomes, but they tend to move up to SFH when kids are older. Do other people not get this?

Not as many SFH in Reston as compared to townhomes and condos.

And also, the difficulty of upgrading your home in REston because of RA. Trust me, I know. I had to go to the DRB level just to change the color of my windows. Many people will simply move up elsewhere rather than try to do significant renovations.

Also, other areas such as Westfield and Chantilly have much newer developments--it's obvious they are in a different part of the lifecycle with younger families, few empty nesters. Also, new development in these areas are of the SFH kind. Probably the same with Oakton, to a lesser extent. In contrast, new development in Reston is not family friendly.

Also, the SB has not been kind to us with past redistrictings. Gave us magnets at the lower levels, instead of redistricting. These do not translate to high schoolers coming to SL.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 06:01PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 05:54PM

Here to help out SLPP a bit...

The 12% seniors vs. 6% seniors makes only a very small impact..it would scale more or less linerarly, and you would have a 6% loss of students....in bost cases, assume those houses don't exist and you'll see that's how it affects things. Aging is not the primary culprit here.

The single person household IS a big problem, it's 30% of the housing stock, vs. 16%, more than twice the impact of the over 65s. (There's some double counting...seniors are sometime single person household).

likewise, the pecentage with children is the BIGGEST problem...the number is 40% smaller westfield (I.e. south lakes is 60% of westfield) and that accounts for the loss of kids at South Lakes. (South Lakes also has more housing units than most other districts.)

The loss isn't coming from there being 40% senior occupied housing or other such aging in place scenario...its coming from people with kids NOT moving in, whereas people without kids DO move in.

Re: the CAPS analysis...I don't know what they did or how they got their numbers, however, for Westfield, Oakton and Chantilly, the obsaerved enrollment yield is almost exactly 75% of calculated for each...Oakton a bit higher. For South Lakes, the expected yield would be 75% of 2500, or around 1875. If SLHS had 1875 kids, we wouldn't need redistricting.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: word ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:01PM

SL exodus is a result of parents considering the school systems prior to purchasing a home. Who would send their kid to Dogwood/Hughes/South Lakes when there are better options available? This has been going on for 15 years and will continue, regardless of whether RD goes thru or not.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:07PM

"When the same methodology is applied to the other high schools, you
would find that Chantilly would have 3500 kids but now has 2700, that
Oakton would have 3000 kids, that Westfield would have 4200 kids.
They must also be having an exodus? "

You need to understand CAPS methodology. They stated they times 80% of each age group, because HS are four years. Go back and check how much is 4200 x 80% and 300 x 80%.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:10PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> ... Also, the SB has not been kind to us with past
> redistrictings. Gave us magnets at the lower
> levels, instead of redistricting. These do not
> translate to high schoolers coming to SL.

Hughes has the middle years IB programme. What percent/how many out-of-pyramid GT kids like it and pupil place into SLHS for the IB Dilpoma Programme?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Get real ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:14PM

Maybe SL doesn't deserve the reputation but Langston Hughes more than deserves its poor reputation.

I know many many SL parents who either refuse to send their kids to Hughes or do so with great trepidation.

Saying "it's not as bad as we thought" IS NOT the same thing as saying "this is the best education for my child and truly superior and I will rave about it to all my friends."

People who are being redistricted are looking for the LATTER, NOT THE FORMER!

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tm,
> It could be partly IB, though I don't think that
> would account for a lot. Partly, it's Hughes and
> SL's undeserved reputation, as we've witnessed
> throughout this process.
>
> I think that it is partly that we have a more
> transient population, especially in the townhomes
> and condos. Personal experience tells me that
> people with small kids live in townhomes, but they
> tend to move up to SFH when kids are older. Do
> other people not get this?
>
> Not as many SFH in Reston as compared to townhomes
> and condos.
>
> And also, the difficulty of upgrading your home in
> REston because of RA. Trust me, I know. I had to
> go to the DRB level just to change the color of my
> windows. Many people will simply move up
> elsewhere rather than try to do significant
> renovations.
>
> Also, other areas such as Westfield and Chantilly
> have much newer developments--it's obvious they
> are in a different part of the lifecycle with
> younger families, few empty nesters. Also, new
> development in these areas are of the SFH kind.
> Probably the same with Oakton, to a lesser extent.
> In contrast, new development in Reston is not
> family friendly.
>
> Also, the SB has not been kind to us with past
> redistrictings. Gave us magnets at the lower
> levels, instead of redistricting. These do not
> translate to high schoolers coming to SL.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:16PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tm,
> It could be partly IB, though I don't think that
> would account for a lot.

> Personal
> experience tells me that people with small kids
> live in townhomes, but they tend to move up to SFH
> when kids are older. Do other people not get
> this?

I agree with the observation, The struggle is to quantify it.

Most of the larger sfd's in Reston were built in North Point. Simon's original philosophy was that families could move within Reston as their kids aged and grew which is why it is consistent with his original design and intention that all of Aldrin and most of Armstrong go to SL.

There are hundreds of 3,000 sq. ft. sfd in Polo across FFX Pkwy and some on either side of Lawyers also. Both these areas go to SL.

So how many 6th graders left for a larger, more affordable sfd? Don't know but since this has nothing to do with SL, there is nothing to fix at SL to reverse this. Only a redistricting will fix this.

I also believe that the reputation that Railly created for SL caused some to flee and that it will take a decade or more to reverse that. How many have left for this reason? I wish we knew. Fixing this is possible. I know others think Bruce is doing it, I disagree.

If the 6th graders left because of IB, then restoring AP would fix this.


> Also, the SB has not been kind to us with past redistrictings. Gave us magnets
> at the lower levels, instead of redistricting. These do not translate to high
> schoolers coming to SL.

How many is this?

What I'm trying to quantify is how much of this loss of yield is attributable to things happening at SL, which can be fixed, and how much is exogenous to SL which only a redistricting can fix.

SB should understand this before undertaking a RD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 06:34PM by Thomas More.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 06:17PM

Get real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe SL doesn't deserve the reputation but
> Langston Hughes more than deserves its poor
> reputation.
>
> I know many many SL parents who either refuse to
> send their kids to Hughes or do so with great
> trepidation.
>
>
I know these people, many of them know NOTHING about Hughes. They base their opinion on what they've hear, not personal experience. I've had a great experience there, as have many other people I know.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:20PM

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL exodus is a result of parents considering the
> school systems prior to purchasing a home. Who
> would send their kid to Dogwood/Hughes/South Lakes
> when there are better options available? This has
> been going on for 15 years and will continue,
> regardless of whether RD goes thru or not.

If your analysis were valid, there wouldn't be a loss of yield between the number of 6th graders and the number of freshman.

Thanks for venting, though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 06:36PM by Thomas More.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:21PM

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What need to be done to push it to IB or to SLHS?
>
> "Focus grants are not applicable to the IB
> program."

I honestly don't know, but it is a grant program. The current grants end in varying years, i.e. Focus 2010 and Focus 2014 depending on what they are funding. You could always ask an administrator how they apply for the grants, and which group grants those funds. (I don't know if it is federal/state or if a private group is handling the focus grants).

Someone earlier mentioned a focus "garden" teacher, that seems rather odd. Most of the focus monies are geared towards academics. Aside from this garden aspect, I haven't heard of any that aren't academic.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:27PM

Get real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe SL doesn't deserve the reputation but
> Langston Hughes more than deserves its poor
> reputation.

Having had 4 kids go through Hughes from 1994-2006, I must say I disagree. As I have written before, I wish Ms. Jackson had taken over SL. Instead it was McLean HS's good fortune to get her. Her predecessor, Mr. Christianson, was good also.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:31PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tm,
> > It could be partly IB, though I don't think
> that
> > would account for a lot.
>
> > Personal
> > experience tells me that people with small kids
> > live in townhomes, but they tend to move up to
> SFH
> > when kids are older. Do other people not get
> > this?
>
> I agree with the observation, The struggle is to
> quantify it.
>
> Most of the larger sfd's in Reston were built in
> North Point. Simon's original philosophy was that
> families could move within Reston as their kids
> aged and grew which is why it is consistent with
> his original design and intention that all of
> Aldrin and most of Armstrong go to SL.
>
> There are hundreds of 3,000 sq. ft. sfd in Polo
> across FFX Pkwy and some on either side of Lawyers
> also. Both these areas go to SL.
>
> So how many 6th graders left for a larger, more
> affordable sfd? Don't know but since this has
> nothing to do with SL, there is nothing to fix at
> SL to reverse this. Only a redistricting will fix
> this.
>
> I also believe that the reputation that Railly
> created for SL caused some to flee and that it
> will take a decade or more to reverse that. How
> many have left for this reason? I wish we knew.
> Fixing this is possible. I know others think
> Bruce is doing it, I disagree.
>
> If the 6th graders left because of IB, then
> restoring AP would fix this.
>
> What I'm trying to quantify is how much of this
> loss of yield is attributable to things happening
> at SL, which can be fixed, and how much is
> exogenous to SL which only a redistricting can
> fix.
>
> SB should understand this before undertaking a RD.


Just curious here, has staff ever conducted a formal study on SL why it has been continously underenrolled for the last 10+ years before resorting to a RD to fix this?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:31PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLPP asks:
> >
> > "Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors
> courses
> > are being eliminated at AP schools?"
> >
> > That doesn't seem to be the case at Oakton.
> > Honors classes are presently offered consistent
> > with previous years.
>
> ----------------
> For parents of children in AP schools: Check your
> own child's catalog for next year. Plese let us
> know what it says.
>
> It appears "honors" ninth and tenth grade English
> and social studies courses are being re-titled
> "pre-AP" while math and science will still be
> called "honors."
>
> A few years back they were all called GT classes,
> but we were told then that "GT" sounded
> "exclusionary" and the colleges like to see the
> name "honors" instead.
>
> I have recently received e-mails that indicate:
> "Some schools offer Pre-AP and others with IB
> programs offer Pre-IB, although they are basically
> the same course and both prepare our students for
> advanced academic courses, whether they are AP or
> IB."
>
> "We are looking for consistency and for a title
> that will reflect the courses."
>
> "There will be no change in the courses, only the
> course titles."
>
> To make this all the more confusing, it appears
> the IBO does NOT want FCPS to call courses
> "pre-IB." So will those courses be called "Pre-AP"
> or "honors"?

The pre-IB courses will be changed to honors. I would think it would make sense to change all pre-AP, pre-IB to honors. That would certainly make it easier to understand, and assist parents who might be considering pupil placement.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Parent of Snot Nosed Brats ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:33PM

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=92962&paper=66&cat=104
> "The opening of Coppermine is likely to affect the
> McNair and Hutchinson elementary school
> boundaries, said School Board members during the
> meeting. "
>
> I wonder, do we really need to spend all the money
> to build a new elemenatry NOW? I don't see new
> constructions, and the current schools are able to
> accomadate students in existing developments?

No, Hutchinson has nearly 300 empty seats now. McNair is slightly over. Its Jack Dale's gift to Stu for his support in renegotiating his contract secretly two years early.

Its just a chance to suck more kids out of Floris for Part 2 of his grand plan

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:33PM

Thomas More Wrote:
> Most of the larger sfd's in Reston were built in
> North Point. Simon's original philosophy was that
> families could move within Reston as their kids
> aged and grew which is why it is consistent with
> his original design and intention that all of
> Aldrin and most of Armstrong go to SL.
>
> There are hundreds of 3,000 sq. ft. sfd in Polo
> across FFX Pkwy and some on either side of Lawyers
> also. Both these areas go to SL.
>
------------
Interesting point. If South Lakes is to get more students it would seem logical to use the Reston Tax District as the initial map, then modify it slightly as needed.

I see the written testimony of Robert E. Simon states, "... Those transferred will (contrary to some of the testimony that you have been subjected to) find available to them an outstanding array of courses, athletic and cultural opportunities among which to to choose. ..."

With this "outstanding array of courses, athletic and cultural opportunities" please tell me again why SLHS needs more students.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: chs ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:33PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLPP asks:
> >
> > "Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors
> courses
> > are being eliminated at AP schools?"
> >
> > That doesn't seem to be the case at Oakton.
> > Honors classes are presently offered consistent
> > with previous years.
>
>
>
> Well, I've been hearing that complaint. Does
> anyone know anything about this?


You are you hearing complaints from? We just went to Chantilly's curriculum night and they offer honors courses for 9th and 10th. The only course they do not offer honors in is World History for the 10th grade. It is now AP World History.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Give Hughes a Chance ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:38PM

Prentice Christian was excellent with the kids. Jackson, the phantom-good on paper principal, was not so good in fact. Word is that McLean is not thrilled with her. Aimee Montecchio, the new Hughes Principal, is wonderful and the school is much improved already.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:40PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious here, has staff ever conducted a
> formal study on SL why it has been continously
> underenrolled for the last 10+ years before
> resorting to a RD to fix this?

If they have, it is an extremely well guarded secret.

Less glibly, I don't think so.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:41PM

Forum Reader Wrote:

> I see the written testimony of Robert E. Simon
> states, "... Those transferred will (contrary to
> some of the testimony that you have been subjected
> to) find available to them an outstanding array of
> courses, athletic and cultural opportunities among
> which to to choose. ..."
>
> With this "outstanding array of courses, athletic
> and cultural opportunities" please tell me again
> why SLHS needs more students.

Give us a break, FR. Simon is 96 years old and though very spry for his age, not familiar with the details of South Lake's curriculum. With the influx of students, though, South Lakes will have those things.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:43PM

Give Hughes a Chance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prentice Christian was excellent with the kids.
> Jackson, the phantom-good on paper principal, was
> not so good in fact.

Couldn't disagree more. Had multiple opportunities to interact with Jackson on some very heavy issues. She was great.

> Word is that McLean is not thrilled with her.

Says more about McLean than Jackson.

> Aimee Montecchio, the new
> Hughes Principal, is wonderful and the school is
> much improved already.

My kid had her as an Asst.Principal at SL and was not thrilled.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 06:46PM by Thomas More.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:45PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
>
> > I see the written testimony of Robert E. Simon
> > states, "... Those transferred will (contrary
> to
> > some of the testimony that you have been
> subjected
> > to) find available to them an outstanding array
> of
> > courses, athletic and cultural opportunities
> among
> > which to to choose. ..."
> >
> > With this "outstanding array of courses,
> athletic
> > and cultural opportunities" please tell me
> again
> > why SLHS needs more students.
>
> Give us a break, FR. Simon is 96 years old and
> though very spry for his age, not familiar with
> the details of South Lake's curriculum. With the
> influx of students, though, South Lakes will have
> those things.


Which brings back to my earlier post about the SL's curriculum. What specifically "those things" does SL have in mind? Some mentioned Jewerly making and any more?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 06:55PM

TM wrote:
There are hundreds of 3,000 sq. ft. sfd in Polo across FFX Pkwy and some on either side of Lawyers also. Both these areas go to SL.


I live in one of these streets on Lawyers. Most of the homes in my neighorhood are around 2000-3000 sft. Going down my street: Kids in St. Marks, empty nester, empty nester, empty nesters, empty nesters, girl in 3rd grade at Hunters Woods, kids in SLHS and Hughes, empty nester, kids at Hunters Woods, empty nester, empty nester, kids at HW and Hughes, kids at HW and Hughes, kids at HW and Hughes.

Other side of street would be similar. Tons of empty nesters, sprinkling of private school, rest public school.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 07:00PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Why is Hughes performance so poor? ()
Date: February 12, 2008 06:57PM

Afraid not - they base their views of Hughes on the FCPS figures

e.g.

57% of kids FAIL SOL math in 7th grade
22% of kids FAIL SOL reading in 8th grade

Frankly, if the GT center wasn't there, the school would probably have to be closed

I can see why Stu is so keen to get warm bodies there - just can't understand why Jane is sacrificing her constituents in Madison North

... oh yes - to protect Langley, she's thrown them under Stu's bus

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 07:25PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors courses
> are being eliminated at AP schools?

No. 11/12 Grade Honors are.

Given that they are eliminating the middle level at AP schools, the real question ought to be - just what is the justification for SL and HL in the same subjects as regular at IB schools?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 07:31PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader, remember when you compare tests
> taken that many two-year IB courses only have one
> test given, so the number of IB tests taken will
> never come close to equaling the number of AP
> tests given. That also explains why IB schools
> are at a disadvantage on the Challenge Index,
> since it is based on the number of tests given. I
> would argue, and have with Jay Mathews, that HL IB
> tests should be given double credit, since they
> include an oral and a written portion, and since
> they cover two years of coursework.

Forum Reader -
Remember, on the other hand, that some (though not all) of the SL courses are really the equivalent of the Honors course in a two year sequence of Honors followed by AP at an AP class. (or even worse in the cases of SL Math)

Also, a number of the HL courses are really two classes, the SL level followed by the HL level, not entirely different courses.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 07:46PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM wrote:
> There are hundreds of 3,000 sq. ft. sfd in Polo
> across FFX Pkwy and some on either side of Lawyers
> also. Both these areas go to SL.
>
>
> I live in one of these streets on Lawyers. Most
> of the homes in my neighorhood are around
> 2000-3000 sft. Going down my street: Kids in St.
> Marks, empty nester, empty nester, empty nesters,
> empty nesters, girl in 3rd grade at Hunters Woods,
> kids in SLHS and Hughes, empty nester, kids at
> Hunters Woods, empty nester, empty nester, kids at
> HW and Hughes, kids at HW and Hughes, kids at HW
> and Hughes.
>
> Other side of street would be similar. Tons of
> empty nesters, sprinkling of private school, rest
> public school.

Any sales in the last two years? What was the price?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:12PM

Westfield Dad, your quotes below are incorrect.

"Given that they are eliminating the middle level at AP schools, the real question ought to be - just what is the justification for SL and HL in the same subjects as regular at IB schools?"

"Remember, on the other hand, that some (though not all) of the SL courses are really the equivalent of the Honors course in a two year sequence of Honors followed by AP at an AP class. (or even worse in the cases of SL Math)

Also, a number of the HL courses are really two classes, the SL level followed by the HL level, not entirely different courses"

Honors courses at the junior and senior level have been gone or on the way out at both AP and IB schools. SL courses are not equivalent to Honors. Honors is a step above regular, and AP and both SL and HL are above honors. The issue for all families, whether AP or IB is there is nothing between those levels and regular in most (I thought all already) FCPS high schools.

Further, it is either SL or HL in IB. HL are two year courses, thus you can't have a SL course followed by an HL course. They are indeed different courses.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantun ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:15PM

South Lakes Pyramid Parent writes:

Also, the SB has not been kind to us with past
> redistrictings. Gave us magnets at the lower
> levels, instead of redistricting. These do not
> translate to high schoolers coming to SL.

SLPP - the dismal statistics cited above re Langston Hughes are exactly why schools such as Hughes and Hunters Woods are magnets rather than recipients of putatively more generous (from the schools' perspectives) redistrictings than has been the case. Those GT kids are necessary to keeping the schools above water in terms of test scores. If the boundaries were merely redrawn to take in random middle class kids, the schools would be in significant danger (and likely would not) of not meeting minimum SOL or NCLB standards. So the school administrators - clever if anything - generate hype over GT programs - which of course excites grubby parents to send their bright, test score enhancing kids to GT centers - all the while making them feel good about the diversity of the schools they attend - ironically while experiencing in-classroom segregation with a stronger flavor of separate and unequal than they ever would experience had they stayed in their base schools. So let's not kid ourselves - the magnet GT programs are placed where they are to overcome the significant burden imposed by the relatively bad students that live in the relevant areas. This is of course unpleasant to point out for you because as Thomas More impliedly relates, it starkly reflects what happens at the high school level, where the magnet scheme no longer works with high schools, - as most students feel very aptly challenged by the AP programs at the various high schools, or, if right for them, TJ. In fact, look at the desires of the South Lakes pyramid right now - magnets (i.e. the status quo) in elementary and middle school to preserve test scores and reputational gloss, and redistricting at the high school level to make up for the deficiencies created when the magnet programs can longer deliver their outsized slug of high scoring students. Nice have your cake and eat it too paradigm - not easy to have in the real world.

So while unpleasant, your real complaint should not be with magnets, but rather with public housing that attracts a negative culture of poverty that in turn attracts students that appear to be largely intractable (or so the experience of the SL pyramid would reflect) in terms of academic improvement. This complaint, of course, is a bit mean and insensitive, so I would expect you to neither adopt or raise it. (I have no skin in this game with my kids or my home). But if you want to zero in on the cause and effect of the problem, that is it. Not an easy problem to tackle - especially in the suburbs where people move to get away from just those urban negative externalities.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Aging in Place ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:18PM

AOakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Actually,the McKibben report shows no such
> thing...it clearly shows that in the 2000 census
> data, the average age of the population in the
> Oakton district is older (40's) than in South
> Lakes(30's), and the number of children 0-4 is
> higher in South Lakes than it is in Oakton.
> Conversely, the high school age population in
> South Lakes is lower than in Oakton, with child
> population decreasing as they get older.


HOUSEHOLDS WITH PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 18 (TABLE 4)
Chantilly - 49%
Oakton - 43%
Westfield - 50%
SLHS 30%

HOUSEHOLDS WITH SENIORS ( table 5) Seniors - 65 or older
Oakton 6%
SL 12%
Westfield 5%
Chantilly 6%

SINGLE PERSON HOUSEHOLDS (table 6)
Chantilly 14%
Oakton 16%
SL 30%
Westfield 16%

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: StopRDNow ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:19PM

This is insane. Stop RD now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:29PM

Hey Aging in Place, look up higher in this thread, I go over those numbers to show they DON"T mean Aging in place, they mean families with school age kid flight.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 08:29PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TM wrote:
> > There are hundreds of 3,000 sq. ft. sfd in Polo
> > across FFX Pkwy and some on either side of
> Lawyers
> > also. Both these areas go to SL.
> >
> >
> > I live in one of these streets on Lawyers.
> Most
> > of the homes in my neighorhood are around
> > 2000-3000 sft. Going down my street: Kids in
> St.
> > Marks, empty nester, empty nester, empty
> nesters,
> > empty nesters, girl in 3rd grade at Hunters
> Woods,
> > kids in SLHS and Hughes, empty nester, kids at
> > Hunters Woods, empty nester, empty nester, kids
> at
> > HW and Hughes, kids at HW and Hughes, kids at
> HW
> > and Hughes.
> >
> > Other side of street would be similar. Tons of
> > empty nesters, sprinkling of private school,
> rest
> > public school.
>
> Any sales in the last two years? What was the
> price?



I think August of 2005 or 2006--800K for a split with I'm guessing 2500 SF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 08:36PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: no stu's pet ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:33PM

reply to
"I can see why Stu is so keen to get warm bodies there - just can't understand why Jane is sacrificing her constituents in Madison North

... oh yes - to protect Langley, she's thrown them under Stu's bus"


It's pretty clear that politics is a trading game. Those three (stu-kathy-Jane) made a deal way before the study and town meetings.
Jane " Hey, I'll give you madison island and support you throwing Floris/Fox Mill under bus. But, don't touch my Langley."
Stu and Kathy "Deal! Let's focus on Western County and leave Langley people in peace. "

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 12, 2008 08:40PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Aging in Place, look up higher in this thread,
> I go over those numbers to show they DON"T mean
> Aging in place, they mean families with school age
> kid flight.


No, I think it means, people in townhouses with younger kids moved out to move up elsewhere when their kids are older. Move up homes in Reston rather small, and not available because people are aging in place.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: horse-trading and horse-stealing ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:48PM

no stu's pet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's pretty clear that politics is a trading game.
> Those three (stu-kathy-Jane) made a deal way
> before the study and town meetings.
> Jane " Hey, I'll give you madison island and
> support you throwing Floris/Fox Mill under bus.
> But, don't touch my Langley."
> Stu and Kathy "Deal! Let's focus on Western County
> and leave Langley people in peace. "


Arbitrary, capricious and guaranteed to end up in court

I don't see why stu doesn't take the obvious compromise, leave the existing madison north community and redistrict the properties which are about to be built out such as the Bachman property (happy memories for those who enjoyed the special study)

That would give him a win, and keep him and jane out of court on at least some days (although the floris folks will keep him busy)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:48PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey Aging in Place, look up higher in this
> thread,
> > I go over those numbers to show they DON"T mean
> > Aging in place, they mean families with school
> age
> > kid flight.
>
>
> No, I think it means, people in townhouses with
> younger kids moved out to move up elsewhere when
> their kids are older. Move up homes in Reston
> rather small, and not available because people are
> aging in place.


I used to live in Reston and there are many townhouse complexes with at least two I know are huge. They are crawling with families. Even there are teens living there with their families. I don't have the "numbers" though but it is pretty safe to assume there are teens living with their families in many townhome complexes around Reston.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exactly ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:50PM

no stu's pet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reply to
> "I can see why Stu is so keen to get warm bodies
> there - just can't understand why Jane is
> sacrificing her constituents in Madison North
>
> ... oh yes - to protect Langley, she's thrown them
> under Stu's bus"
>
>
> It's pretty clear that politics is a trading game.
> Those three (stu-kathy-Jane) made a deal way
> before the study and town meetings.
> Jane " Hey, I'll give you madison island and
> support you throwing Floris/Fox Mill under bus.
> But, don't touch my Langley."
> Stu and Kathy "Deal! Let's focus on Western County
> and leave Langley people in peace. "


Yep. With Herndon filled, Langley will be even more untouchable.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:54PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > I live in one of these streets on Lawyers.
>
> > Any sales in the last two years? What was the
> > price?
>
> I think August of 2005 or 2006--800K for a split
> with I'm guessing 2500 SF.

A young family would need to make $320,000 per year to afford that house.

Ain't many of them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Stephanie ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:55PM

Well I thought I might let some of you in on some information as to why redistricting is needed so badly, and as you're all AP obsessed there is some good news in here as well.

I recently was registering for my classes this year and decided I wanted to take IB Physics 2. Well evidently the class had seven people in it this year, and they're not even positive there going to hold the class next year as there seems to be little interest so far (only two other people I know plan to continue with the second part of the IB physics course). But because of this uncertainty I signed up for the class and am still hoping that it will be offered next year. If not then I suspect I'll be recieving a call mid-summer referring to which other elective I'd like to take. By the way I have no choice in wether I would like to take this class as a higher level or standard level course due to such little interest, meaning I must take my IB Physics 2 class as a standard level regardless of how well I do in the class.
Next year South Lakes is also offering two AP classes, an AP Government class for sophmores and an AP Human Geography class for sophmores, juniors and seniors is my guess. Evidently AP Human Geography isn't a done deal either according to one of my teachers as they are again not sure of the interest involved. South Lakes will also be adding a cooking class (which will be an academy class) to their course selection guides. As well as an IB Management class and Fashion Marketing class if I recall, and a few others which I seem to have failed in remembering.

All the other IB classes I was interested in, I am happy to say are still available however I decided to let go of my photojournailism class and continue on with political science instead next year as they're not sure if it is going to continue under the art or english programs next year, and again the number of students involved.

I hope in my posts you have noticed a continous pattern? That alot of my schedule for the past four years seems to have been up to chance, which is a relativly sad fact for many at South Lakes like me who choose to challenge themselves in classes that are either very unique or above the norm for most.
Until we have a large enrollment these classes will probably never have the support that is needed to achieve appropiate funding, class sizes, staff, etc. Now I would like to say this; does Oakton have these same problems? How about Westfield? I learned an interesting fact by the way the other day. Robinson which is easily the largest IB school in the county has about the same number of IB diploma canidates as South Lakes although they have a much larger population and course selection.

From this we can draw a few valid conclusions that I know many of you like to avoid.
1. We do have many bright students at South Lakes; in fact a larger percentage choose to participate in the IB program then that of Robinson (easily one of the largest IB schools Fairfax County offers).
2. Redistricting is direly needed at South Lakes, as we are honestly not recieving the same oppurtunites as other schools in course selection; which breaks down into staff, course funding, enrollment, etc.
3. Nothing is ever garunteed to many of us. We understand we come from different backgrounds and many of you like to think of us as the "troubled" school but in reality we are simply kids. Like many on this forum have said before it is not the school who makes the student, but the drive behind the student that determines the success of the student.
4. The only thing your mere cries and whines tell us on the supporting side is
A - You have no confidence that your children can perform well in schools under different "circumstances." Wether this be IB, diversity, or in general the education recieved at South Lakes. Many of us wonder why is it that you really don't want to come? If your children are as amazingly talented as many of you say they are, which I don't doubt some of your children are probably truly gifted, you should be confident in their ability to perform well at any school. Trust me; if you've taught them well you shouldn't fear they will succumb to the peer pressure that is seen in every school throughout the US. You shouldn't fear their ability to make new friends, as I'm sure they shouldn't have a problem with. You shouldn't fear the new challenges they will face, and the lessons they will learn.
B - You don't care about anyone but yourselves. Fairfax County exist to serve the general public, not one specific community or high school. They know that no matter what they do, how much they plan, someone will always be unhappy. They know just as well as I do that this county is filled with possibly some of the most whiny students as well as parents, and frankly I think they could care less. We at South Lakes know just how impressive our student body is, and your mere whines of "why do they want our kids" are simply hilarious in many ways. Maybe you don't understand this; the success and abilities that South Lakes has brought to the communities and areas it is a part of have always been unnoticed in a way due to the hearsay and rumors that have always surrounded its "image." We know that more students means better ways in showcasing those that need to be showcased. We know more students mean more recognition for those who truly deserve it, who deserve to go off to bigger and better things then the "norm." Lets for example take the highschool football team. Obviously those who play on a state winning football team are looked upon by more scouts then those at the bottom of the bracket, it is a sad truth in the world, one that can no longer be avoided. Yes, we do have exceptions. Students who recieve full scholarships to top univirsities and colleges that play on teams who have known no more then two wins a season, but the numbers you will find are far less than those of other schools.

I hope as you read this you become more aware of why we simply are for redistricting. We know that more students means a better oppurtunity to show case our own talents and strengths in harder class that are currently not offered. We hope you understand that we at South Lakes do give you a fair reasoning in the redistricting, but I hope you do understand as well that many of us at South Lakes are proud of our school and simply feel the need to defend its good name.

That's all for today,
Stephanie

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:56PM

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield Dad, your quotes below are incorrect.
>
> "Given that they are eliminating the middle level
> at AP schools, the real question ought to be -
> just what is the justification for SL and HL in
> the same subjects as regular at IB schools?"
>
> "Remember, on the other hand, that some (though
> not all) of the SL courses are really the
> equivalent of the Honors course in a two year
> sequence of Honors followed by AP at an AP class.
> (or even worse in the cases of SL Math)
>
> Also, a number of the HL courses are really two
> classes, the SL level followed by the HL level,
> not entirely different courses"
>
> Honors courses at the junior and senior level have
> been gone or on the way out at both AP and IB
> schools.

I agree with this.

> SL courses are not equivalent to Honors.

Depends on the course. SL Math is an embarrassment.

HL Math is real and is about equivalent to Honors PreCalc and Calc BC.

> Honors is a step above regular, and AP and both
> SL and HL are above honors. The issue for all
> families, whether AP or IB is there is nothing
> between those levels and regular in most (I
> thought all already) FCPS high schools.

Based on the fact that many colleges give credit for SLs only if you get a Diploma, it's more like Honors than not as far as the colleges are concerned.
>
> Further, it is either SL or HL in IB. HL are two
> year courses, thus you can't have a SL course
> followed by an HL course. They are indeed
> different courses.

Two points -

1) My point is that IB means that (in a number of cases) there have to be 3 levels for 11/12 at IB schools where there are only 2 levels at the AP schools. (That happens to be a real problem at the AP schools incidentally.)

2) On whether they are two courses, it depends on the subject. Some are SL are year 1 of a 2 year course with HL requiring the second year. In others, e.g. math, SL and HL are entirely different.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 12, 2008 08:59PM

SLVerity Wrote:
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> > I see the written testimony of Robert E. Simon
> > states, ...
>
> Give us a break, FR. Simon is 96 years old ...

It would appear somebody went out of his/her way to have this elderly gentleman come to speak about his community. You might want to give ME a break, SLV, for taking the time to see what the man had to say.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:00PM

Exactly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no stu's pet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > reply to
> > "I can see why Stu is so keen to get warm
> bodies
> > there - just can't understand why Jane is
> > sacrificing her constituents in Madison North
> >
> > ... oh yes - to protect Langley, she's thrown
> them
> > under Stu's bus"
> >
> >
> > It's pretty clear that politics is a trading
> game.
> > Those three (stu-kathy-Jane) made a deal way
> > before the study and town meetings.
> > Jane " Hey, I'll give you madison island and
> > support you throwing Floris/Fox Mill under bus.
> > But, don't touch my Langley."
> > Stu and Kathy "Deal! Let's focus on Western
> County
> > and leave Langley people in peace. "
>
>
> Yep. With Herndon filled, Langley will be even
> more untouchable.


K-J-S are going to deal with many more angry parents thanks to their wheelings and dealings..what kind of RD is this? SL folks, you have no idea how those being redistricted feel, do you? Not even a tiny speck? To make things worse, seeing Langley be untouched or Navy going back to Chantilly makes many more Floris/Fox Mill/MI parents more P'SSSSSSED off. Seriously can anyone can feel the tension in the air as one steps outside of cherry picked communities?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Obvious Man ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:06PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know you don't want to hear the "aging in place"
> argument. Just because you don't want to hear it,
> doesn't mean it's not true. If you lived here,
> you would know it to be true, when you see all the
> empty nesters around. They simply don't want to
> leave.
>
> Add to this the fact that new development is of
> the variety that does not attract families. And
> we have more townhouses--where people with small
> kids live, who often move up and out by the time
> their kids are in high school. Add to this all
> the districting away from SL that past SB's have
> done, we've needed more kids for awhile.
>

This sounds like a great place to invest $60M in a high school!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bye,bye,bye ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:09PM

Stephanie Wrote:
>
> That's all for today,
> Stephanie


Could you just make it "That's all forever, Stephanie"?

P.S. it sure was nice when Option 5 looked like a winner to not have to listen to your babble. But I see the SL Mamas have let loose of the cat bag strings and the cats are loose and back on the circuit.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ?? ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:10PM

Exactly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no stu's pet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > reply to
> > "I can see why Stu is so keen to get warm
> bodies
> > there - just can't understand why Jane is
> > sacrificing her constituents in Madison North
> >
> > ... oh yes - to protect Langley, she's thrown
> them
> > under Stu's bus"
> >
> >
> > It's pretty clear that politics is a trading
> game.
> > Those three (stu-kathy-Jane) made a deal way
> > before the study and town meetings.
> > Jane " Hey, I'll give you madison island and
> > support you throwing Floris/Fox Mill under bus.
> > But, don't touch my Langley."
> > Stu and Kathy "Deal! Let's focus on Western
> County
> > and leave Langley people in peace. "
>
>
> Yep. With Herndon filled, Langley will be even
> more untouchable.

Does this mean votes were traded for other projects like the too big Glasgow and South County middle School? Virginia politicians will never give FCPS more money after this fiasco. Maybe the middle school is a function of Connelly running for Davis's seat.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:40PM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having reviewed the numbers this morning, it does
> appear that the FRM numbers at Herndon will rise
> only by 1%. Herndon does a very good job of
> working with its current population of
> disadvantaged kids, so I know these kids would be
> well cared for. However, I also know there is
> quite a bit of disagreement in the Herndon
> community over this - any increase in this strata
> puts a strain on resources.
>
> If I were living in McNair and were poor enough to
> qualify for Title I support, I would want to stay
> at Westfield. The percentage of FRM kids there
> will drop by two percent, I believe, since McNair
> is a major contributor to the "balance" in that
> school. Unfortunately, the very people affected by
> this will have absolutely no voice in the matter.
> It will take the Herndon community to rally behind
> them. You won't see them at the next hearing,
> unless they are prompted and supported in getting
> there.
>
> The more pressing matter regarding demographics is
> South Lakes, where a 33% (updated) FRM population
> would drop to 24% with the addition of new
> communities that don't suffer from this kind of
> disadvantage. That is a very significant change
> that can be accomplished while meeting the other
> criteria set forth by the board and its staff. And
> it helps the current population of economically
> disadvantaged children there.
>
> Apart from creating a balance, I do not think many
> of the people posting here really understand why
> it is so important to raise the general ed numbers
> to a minimum of 1,700 at South Lakes and other
> schools. The scheduling conflicts and lack of
> course choices is really a major problem at all
> smaller schools, not just South Lakes. It's a very
> severe problem that nobody else in this boundary
> study faces.

That is not quite true. South Lakes is one of only 4 small schools that gets extra funding for more teaching staff and more classes. PLUS, it gets more funding for even more staffing because its an IB school. South Lakes supporters have not been able to articulate what classes they are denied because of their small size. The reason that they cannot articulate their losses is because they aren't being denied anything that other schools have. IN FACT, they have a far better staffing ratio than any other school in the county because of their extra funding. Only Marshall and Stuart enjoy this double supplemental funding, extra small school funding PLUS extra IB funding.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:43PM

>>>Does this mean votes were traded for other projects like the too big Glasgow and South County middle School? Virginia politicians will never give FCPS more money after this fiasco. Maybe the middle school is a function of Connelly running for Davis's seat.<<<

Why wouldn't the democrats on the board of supervisors give the democrats on the school board more money? They're all on the same team, nearly all in the same party. Of course the 10 democrats on the board of supervisors will support their 10 democrat buddies on the school board.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:49PM

Baffled Wrote:
>
> K-J-S are going to deal with many more angry
> parents thanks to their wheelings and
> dealings..what kind of RD is this? SL folks, you
> have no idea how those being redistricted feel, do
> you? Not even a tiny speck? To make things worse,
> seeing Langley be untouched or Navy going back to
> Chantilly makes many more Floris/Fox Mill/MI
> parents more P'SSSSSSED off. Seriously can
> anyone can feel the tension in the air as one
> steps outside of cherry picked communities?

YUP, so true. Just when we think that they couldn't possibly screw this up any more than they already have, they couldn't possibly make people even more angry, they exceed our expectations and find a way to screw it up even more and make people even more determined to never set a foot into South Lakes. It's gone from bad to worse to horrible.

At this point, no one knows what they will do when they vote on the 28th. ANY community could be forced into South Lakes. It's obviously far from over and that is the most unfair thing they've done to date. Stay tuned.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:56PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is obvious that all he cares for is South
> Lakes and South Lakes only.
>
> If only that were true, then, he wouldn't have
> left Railly in place for 7 years and he wouldn't
> have let SL get stuck with IB without community
> input.
>
> When his close friend complained about the Madison
> principal, a change was made in almost no time.
>
> Can't really tell what Stuy cares about but its
> not about Reston or its kids.

That's not quite true. MANY Madison parents complained about the former Principal and it still took 3 looooong years to get rid of her. (She got sent to Tysons Pimmit alternative school.) Granted, that was still faster than at South Lakes, and both were affirmative action hires, but I suspect more Madison parents nagged more often and more loudly. The PC parents at South Lakes were less likely to criticize a minority principal, while Madison parents want excellence, and are less concerned about race. Their children's education trumps affirmative action.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 12, 2008 09:58PM

Hey Stephanie...

If you only have two people that want to take advanced physics out of a 1500 student body including several dozen IB diploma candidates, then getting 600 new students isn't going to materially change things. You might have three or four people that want to take advanced physics. You won't have 20.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:00PM

>>>Manoj Bal Wrote:
> ... The most telling comment was they will let all 632
> students who are redestricted to South Lakes pupil
> place out of South Lakes because South Lakes does
> not offer AP program. HELLO !! Isn't the current
> way better? Let people pupil place their kids
> into South Lakes who want IB program for their
> kids!! <<<<

The problem is, they can't make enough people want IB. Since they KNOW that IB is better, they must force students to go to IB schools. They don't care what parents and students want. They KNOW BEST. That's the message they are sending us.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: New scenarios
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:09PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kathy caters to constituents - oak hill voted
> > against her, navy for her - payback is hell
>
> I am at loss of words for what Kathy and Stu are
> thinking?
>
> Is it like throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall
> and hoping something will stick?
>
> Or is it creating a smoke screen and at the end
> saying we came up with all these scenarios and can
> not get a agreement on any one so lets just scrap
> this process. By the way we tried our best to form
> a consensus but folks are just too adamant.
>
> To top it all, there is 100% guarantee of pupil
> placement for kids who want AP so all this just
> does not make any sense.


Of course they have to allow students to pupil place out of South Lakes, just as they permit it at any other high school. They couldn't make South Lakes the only school in the county that forbids students to place out of it. I know that the South Lakes parents had hoped for such a rule, but it obviously couldn't happen. It's just one more reason why this boundary change won't work. The biggest reason is that people are so angry because of the process. And current South lakes parents haven't helped either with their name calling and nasty judgments against everyone who doesn't want to go to their school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:13PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Call Dean's office ask why havent you posted the
> new scenarios? Get on it already there are lives
> in the balance here.
>
> I want to know which streets in Fox Mill are
> included. By the way the reason they are on number
> 11b and 12 is that they through out 5a-11a before
> yesterday.
>
> They did decide during the meeting to renumber the
> new scenarios so as not to confuse the public.
>
> We the public hate to be confused. However you
> could ask why stop now? We have been confused by
> this for months. Keep it up, we are used to it
> now.

Have the new scenarios been posted yet? The public comment hearings are in a week. How will people know what they're commenting on?

Sheeze, these clowns have turned this into a 3 Ring circus!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:17PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NavyGetsOut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Call Dean's office ask why havent you posted
> the
> > new scenarios? Get on it already there are
> lives
> > in the balance here.
> >
> > I want to know which streets in Fox Mill are
> > included. By the way the reason they are on
> number
> > 11b and 12 is that they through out 5a-11a
> before
> > yesterday.
> >
> > They did decide during the meeting to renumber
> the
> > new scenarios so as not to confuse the public.
> >
> > We the public hate to be confused. However you
> > could ask why stop now? We have been confused
> by
> > this for months. Keep it up, we are used to it
> > now.
>
> Have the new scenarios been posted yet? The
> public comment hearings are in a week. How will
> people know what they're commenting on?
>
> Sheeze, these clowns have turned this into a 3
> Ring circus!


Yes these new scenarios have been posted to the fcps website under the boundaries studies information. You can say this is the RD Ringly and Barnum Circus only this is not FUN. This is MADNESS. My gawd,

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:35PM

>>yes these new scenarios have been posted to the fcps website under the boundaries studies information. You can say this is the RD Ringly and Barnum Circus only this is not FUN. This is MADNESS. My gawd,<<<

Yes, it certainly is. Even I am shocked by these new scenarios. EVERYTHING is back in play. No one has any idea what scenario they will devise, and vote for on February 28th.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 12, 2008 10:49PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The PC parents at South Lakes
> were less likely to criticize a minority
> principal, while Madison parents want excellence,
> and are less concerned about race. Their
> children's education trumps affirmative action.

So sorry to contradict you but folks at SL were insisting on a change within Railly's first year. Stuy just wasn't as attentive to SL as to his dear friend at Madison.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 10:50PM by Thomas More.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME Mom ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:04PM

Those new scenarios are even more ridiculous than the first.

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Kathy Strauss' scenario splits Fox Mill in half citing a valley stream that bisects the community. Um, that little creek that is by the tot lot? For REAL? Where is the logic?

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:13PM

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those new scenarios are even more ridiculous than
> the first.
>
> Stupid, stupid, stupid!
>
> Kathy Strauss' scenario splits Fox Mill in half
> citing a valley stream that bisects the community.
> Um, that little creek that is by the tot lot?
> For REAL? Where is the logic?
>
> Stupid, stupid, stupid!


You mean Kathy Smith :) Yes these scenarios are extremely stupid. I looked at the Fox Mill map and thought why the heck they decided to use the stream to divvy up the community? Imagine a house on the other side of the creek going to Oakton and the other side to SL?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME Mom ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:26PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those new scenarios are even more ridiculous
> than
> > the first.
> >
> > Stupid, stupid, stupid!
> >
> > Kathy Strauss' scenario splits Fox Mill in half
> > citing a valley stream that bisects the
> community.
> > Um, that little creek that is by the tot lot?
> > For REAL? Where is the logic?
> >
> > Stupid, stupid, stupid!
>
>
> You mean Kathy Smith :) Yes these scenarios are
> extremely stupid. I looked at the Fox Mill map
> and thought why the heck they decided to use the
> stream to divvy up the community? Imagine a house
> on the other side of the creek going to Oakton and
> the other side to SL?


Oops! Yeah. What the heck was I thinking?

Must me the stupidity of the scenario seeping into my brain.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: GAY DAD ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:28PM

Pleas stop talking about this! There is nothing you can do about anything... If you don't like it send your kid to privet school or move out of the county!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: spellcheck ()
Date: February 12, 2008 11:50PM

"If you don't like it send your kid to privet school...."

Which FCPS high school offers a landscaping academy?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer - feels sick ()
Date: February 13, 2008 12:03AM

spellcheck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If you don't like it send your kid to privet
> school...."
>
> Which FCPS high school offers a landscaping
> academy?

One focus school has an extra staff member who works with the students on the outdoor environment. Hey- maybe FCPS COULD have an landscaping academy with work done at people's houses just like the classes where they build a house and they sell it.

Could help with the drop-out rate if FCPS allowed heavy tipping. Maybe all that space at Westfield could store the mowers for Cville & Clifton. Just kidding - NOT. FCPS has classes where teenage girls hang out at the Mall.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 13, 2008 12:13AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The PC parents at South Lakes
> > were less likely to criticize a minority
> > principal, while Madison parents want
> excellence,
> > and are less concerned about race. Their
> > children's education trumps affirmative action.
>
> So sorry to contradict you but folks at SL were
> insisting on a change within Railly's first year.
> Stuy just wasn't as attentive to SL as to his dear
> friend at Madison.


OOOOHHHHH..........THAT dear friend. Good point.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 13, 2008 12:21AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The PC parents at South Lakes
> > > were less likely to criticize a minority
> > > principal, while Madison parents want
> > excellence,
> > > and are less concerned about race. Their
> > > children's education trumps affirmative
> action.
> >
> > So sorry to contradict you but folks at SL were
> > insisting on a change within Railly's first
> year.
> > Stuy just wasn't as attentive to SL as to his
> dear
> > friend at Madison.
>
>
> OOOOHHHHH..........THAT dear friend. Good point.

I am surprised that his current dear friends at South Lakes didn't nix the idea of another scenario at this late date. They didn't seem to be fully aware of the details, nor were they aware that ALL redistricted students would have the option of pupil placing OUT of South Lakes. With well over 100 empty seats next year at Oakton, all of the rising 9th graders from Fox Mill will be able to pupil place at Oakton. They can ride to school with older siblings or other older kids in the neighborhood who drive to Oakton. Of course many people are already forming parent carpools. Madison will have more than enough empty seats to accommodate the handful of kids redistricted from Madison Island. They too won't have a problem getting rides with the older kids in the neighborhood. My son who went to TJ never took a bus there, not one single day. The other son never took a bus to Madison, not one single day. There are always older kids with cars who can give younger kids a ride to school. Give the older kid gas money every week and it's a win-win for everyone.

I tried to tell the SL folks that kids would pupil place out, as long as they remained rigid about IB, but it fell on deaf ears. Now they are bummed because Dale confirmed that all the new students could pupil place out. DOH! Of course they can, and of course they will.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 13, 2008 12:37AM

Sooooo.........FCPS has hearings on the 19th and another work session on the 21st. We can assume that their final, final, scenario will be determined at that work session. That means no time for another public hearing, much less community meetings, before they vote on the 28th.

Any odds taken on Crossfield being back in the mix? They dragged McNair and Oak Hill back.

Why did they waste all that time and money on meetings and hearings, only to do a completely new plan at the 11th hour?

It was good that Tina Hone had it confirmed by staff that no one will have to go to South Lakes and everyone can pupil place out. Since every high school will be under enrolled after redistricting, it shouldn't be a problem for every student to get back into the school that they want to attend.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 13, 2008 12:41AM

GAY DAD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pleas stop talking about this! There is nothing
> you can do about anything... If you don't like it
> send your kid to privet school or move out of the
> county!

A privet school? Would that be a school with privies? Most students prefer indoor plumbing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 13, 2008 02:15AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A privet school?

Also known as a hedge school taught by Jesuits in Ireland when it was under English rule and illegal to teach the Irish to read and write.

Kind of like the way Virginia treated blacks in the 1960s.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 13, 2008 05:43AM

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> 2) On whether they are two courses, it depends on
> the subject. Some are are year 1 of a 2 year
> course with HL requiring the second year. In
> others, e.g. math, SL and HL are entirely
> different.



Regarding the statement that some courses are SL one year and require a second year at HL can you provide an example? I am not aware of any subjects like that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 13, 2008 06:11AM

AP vs IB Wrote:
> Regarding the statement that some courses are SL
> one year and require a second year at HL can you
> provide an example? I am not aware of any
> subjects like that.

---
The South Lakes catalog (available online) has this example, taught at the Marshall Academy.
IB BUSINESS AND MANAGEMENT SL I (613508)

IB BUSINESS AND MANAGEMENT HL II (613509)
Prerequisite: IB Business and Management I (613508)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy parent ()
Date: February 13, 2008 06:41AM

There was another thread a couple of months ago that talked about pupil-placing or renting/moving into a desired school district. There was a dad who already met in person with Bruce Butler and gave him a pupil-placement form for his son. He seemed to report that Butler said it would be signed if the RD went through. The dad was VERY confident that Butler indicated that pupil-placements would be allowed and that the counselor at Oakton helped him fill out the form to his best advantage. Something about Japanese, AP preference and maybe American sign language. Should bump that thread now as it was very helpful.

I think the most important thing I learned from it was that the deadline for pupil-placement was April 15th!!! That gives people NO time to dally.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 13, 2008 06:47AM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP vs IB Wrote:
> > Regarding the statement that some courses are
> SL
> > one year and require a second year at HL can
> you
> > provide an example? I am not aware of any
> > subjects like that.
>
> ---
> The South Lakes catalog (available online) has
> this example, taught at the Marshall Academy.
> IB BUSINESS AND MANAGEMENT SL I (613508)
>
> IB BUSINESS AND MANAGEMENT HL II (613509)
> Prerequisite: IB Business and Management I
> (613508)

Thanks, but does this mean you have to take the second year? I would think a student could choose the second year if this is one of their HL choices, or you can take it as one of the 2 or 3 SL courses if you are going for the diploma, or just SL if you are taking a couple of IB courses and not doing the diploma route?
In other words I don't see where it says you are required to take the second year.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 13, 2008 07:30AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Neen Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > The PC parents at South Lakes
> > > > were less likely to criticize a minority
> > > > principal, while Madison parents want
> > > excellence,
> > > > and are less concerned about race. Their
> > > > children's education trumps affirmative
> > action.
> > >
> > > So sorry to contradict you but folks at SL
> were
> > > insisting on a change within Railly's first
> > year.
> > > Stuy just wasn't as attentive to SL as to his
> > dear
> > > friend at Madison.
> >
> >
> > OOOOHHHHH..........THAT dear friend. Good
> point.
>
> I am surprised that his current dear friends at
> South Lakes didn't nix the idea of another
> scenario at this late date. They didn't seem to
> be fully aware of the details, nor were they aware
> that ALL redistricted students would have the
> option of pupil placing OUT of South Lakes. With
> well over 100 empty seats next year at Oakton, all
> of the rising 9th graders from Fox Mill will be
> able to pupil place at Oakton. They can ride to
> school with older siblings or other older kids in
> the neighborhood who drive to Oakton. Of course
> many people are already forming parent carpools.
> Madison will have more than enough empty seats to
> accommodate the handful of kids redistricted from
> Madison Island. They too won't have a problem
> getting rides with the older kids in the
> neighborhood. My son who went to TJ never took a
> bus there, not one single day. The other son
> never took a bus to Madison, not one single day.
> There are always older kids with cars who can give
> younger kids a ride to school. Give the older kid
> gas money every week and it's a win-win for
> everyone.
>
> I tried to tell the SL folks that kids would pupil
> place out, as long as they remained rigid about
> IB, but it fell on deaf ears. Now they are bummed
> because Dale confirmed that all the new students
> could pupil place out. DOH! Of course they can,
> and of course they will.


Neen

Jack also told us that they will not be provided with bus service. Is this consistent with their policy?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 13, 2008 07:52AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Thomas More Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Neen Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > The PC parents at South Lakes
> > > > > were less likely to criticize a minority
> > > > > principal, while Madison parents want
> > > > excellence,
> > > > > and are less concerned about race. Their
> > > > > children's education trumps affirmative
> > > action.
> > > >
> > > > So sorry to contradict you but folks at SL
> > were
> > > > insisting on a change within Railly's first
> > > year.
> > > > Stuy just wasn't as attentive to SL as to
> his
> > > dear
> > > > friend at Madison.
> > >
> > >
> > > OOOOHHHHH..........THAT dear friend. Good
> > point.
> >
> > I am surprised that his current dear friends at
> > South Lakes didn't nix the idea of another
> > scenario at this late date. They didn't seem
> to
> > be fully aware of the details, nor were they
> aware
> > that ALL redistricted students would have the
> > option of pupil placing OUT of South Lakes.
> With
> > well over 100 empty seats next year at Oakton,
> all
> > of the rising 9th graders from Fox Mill will be
> > able to pupil place at Oakton. They can ride
> to
> > school with older siblings or other older kids
> in
> > the neighborhood who drive to Oakton. Of
> course
> > many people are already forming parent carpools.
>
> > Madison will have more than enough empty seats
> to
> > accommodate the handful of kids redistricted
> from
> > Madison Island. They too won't have a problem
> > getting rides with the older kids in the
> > neighborhood. My son who went to TJ never took
> a
> > bus there, not one single day. The other son
> > never took a bus to Madison, not one single day.
>
> > There are always older kids with cars who can
> give
> > younger kids a ride to school. Give the older
> kid
> > gas money every week and it's a win-win for
> > everyone.
> >
> > I tried to tell the SL folks that kids would
> pupil
> > place out, as long as they remained rigid about
> > IB, but it fell on deaf ears. Now they are
> bummed
> > because Dale confirmed that all the new
> students
> > could pupil place out. DOH! Of course they
> can,
> > and of course they will.
>
>
> Neen
>
> Jack also told us that they will not be provided
> with bus service. Is this consistent with their
> policy?


Yeah I was wondering about that. There was something said about transportation being provided during a boundary phase in somewhere from the fcps website. It would be silly to see the older students being bused to their current schools while these 9th grader kids who were approved pupil placements from their neighborhoods (the redistricted neighborhoods with grandfathering the older students) have to take transportation while their older student neighbors ride the bus

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Let's all stop this, don't be fooled ()
Date: February 13, 2008 08:12AM

Hi All,

I have a feeling that this is TRAP TRAP TRAP!

FCPS board is trying to make people fight each other again then they can pick a option and say most people like this one better. Are we? NO NO NO! We hate all of them.

Just remember, the second town hall meeting, we were given 4 options, then the option 5 comes out was SLHS PTSA option, this time, they are trying to do it again. Any advantage or disadvantage we say about any option can be used by them for their final option, they will pick whatever they like to hear. whatever they need for their final modified option.

Let's all try together stop this, Nobody is SAFE.

Anybody think you are safe, think again. think of McNair people, some of them, not all of them were supporting the option 5, now they will be moved to Herndon in both option, Is that a joke???? SLHS doesn't want McNair student, that's for sure, Herndon HS people want them, they are very nice on that. Navy people, think you are safe now? South Floris people go to Oakton will be ever far distance than Navy people go to Oakton, the transportation task force failed.It may comes back, still move Navy. I am suppose to cry since I will be moved in all options but I couldn't help want to laugh. What's going on here??

Bottom line, based on what's happening so far, we all should be smart enough not fall into FCPS board's trap, choose which option is foolish, all of them are bad, stop this. Who knows what comes out in end, may surprise some people. Not me, I will not be surprised since I will be moved in all option, I should be happy that SLHS want us so baddly, I got be very special.

Be SMART this time, don't be fooled, If you try just want get yourself out and happy somebody else will be there, it may comes back at you. With current school board G and K, anything can happen in my opinion.

Pardon my grammer and word spelling, My English is not very good, I am not native US, I am first generation immigrants who was weak in this matter that was picked by G and K to kick around like a ball. You can all get what I mean.

Have a nice day and hope we can win in the end. I wish.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 13, 2008 08:35AM

Has fcps done in this fashion with past redistrictings, coming up with weird options and then changing and then pop with a totally surprising final scenario? Is this the way to treat the public? This is totally outrageous!!!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Truthteller ()
Date: February 13, 2008 08:38AM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has fcps done in this fashion with past
> redistrictings, coming up with weird options and
> then changing and then pop with a totally
> surprising final scenario? Is this the way to
> treat the public? This is totally outrageous!!!

They did it last year with South County. After the final hearing they had 5 or 6 alternate proposals.

Probably why Center and Bradsher weren't reall happy with this stunt

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris ()
Date: February 13, 2008 08:49AM

What a fun. The most popular word for the RD is madness, craziness. It's beyond fairness, process improvement, etc. It's purely shock, disblief.
I'm so amused now, though I'm the lucky one stu is so determined to get.

After all, what do we really achieve?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 13, 2008 08:50AM

Truthteller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Has fcps done in this fashion with past
> > redistrictings, coming up with weird options
> and
> > then changing and then pop with a totally
> > surprising final scenario? Is this the way to
> > treat the public? This is totally
> outrageous!!!
>
> They did it last year with South County. After
> the final hearing they had 5 or 6 alternate
> proposals.
>
> Probably why Center and Bradsher weren't reall
> happy with this stunt


And they are going to do another boundary study on South County this fall, is this correct?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: wasteoftaxmoney ()
Date: February 13, 2008 09:00AM

a 60 million $ new building is proposed while county has a 90 million $ deficit. Can they use this money to help the school system? Bunch of corrupted officials.
Talked about the RD. Someone should get the news to Fox News and make it a national subject. Something like "Madness in Fairfax County RD". No wonder there is an old saying, politicians are bunch of crooks and no better than criminals. The RD proves that, politicians like Gibson and Smith will do whatever they can, including lying about the facts, misrepresenting their own districts etc, to achieve their own agenda.
We should remove the SB and let people make their own choices. Government has no right to force children into a school that they don't want to attend. This is not democracy, this is dictatorship.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: nogoforme ()
Date: February 13, 2008 09:16AM

as a reminder, if you want to speak at the next public school board meeting on the 19 of Feb. you must sign up before the 4:30 on the 15th of Feb. The 18th of Feb is a holiday.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: stephanie's new rant ()
Date: February 13, 2008 09:18AM

Stephanie - you clearly don't get it

Going through your points 1 by 1

1. 'Bright students at SLHS'
no-one has ever disputed this BUT the issue is whether the educational environment is adequate to support either them or any other part of the curve

for example compare SAT deficit at SLHS compared to Madison

Asian -192 points
Black -88 points
Hispanic - 19 points

economically disadvantaged -73 points
limited english - 168 points
disabilities - 153 points

SLHS is failing every group (perhaps excluding IB diploma students)

2. 'Redistricting is needed'

No - south lakes does not have an enrolement problem and its programmatic problem, although important, is secondary - at the root is a PERFORMANCE problem

Look at SOL failure rates at SLHS vs Madison

Biology 6x
chemistry 3x
earth science 6x
english reading 4x
english writing 5x
VA-US history 9x

Redistricting is designed to mask, not fix the fundamental performance issue

That's why parents don't want their kids to be send to SLHS as political pawns

3. 'Nothing is guaranteed'

Parents expectation of high quality education is guarenteed - that's what we expect in return for high taxes

Due process is guaranteed - not arbitrary and capricious behavior like the current flailing RD

If SLHS set its stall out to attract students it might do okay - but coercing parents into leaving their existing community just because you think they should - well that's guaranteed to cause a revolt

---------

your rant "The only thing your mere cries and whines tell us on the supporting side is'

A. 'no faith in our children'

What a stupid comment. our responsibility is to give our children the best educational environment we can, one where the community believes in education and with a proven track record of performance - and the let them thrive

You seem to be advocating that educational environment doesn't matter - ask Harvard about that

It does matter, it matters a lot - not only that, its what the parents who are being annexed believe and in a democracy, that's what counts


B. 'we really only care about ourselves'

we really object to being ripped from the school communities to which we belong - whose success is not some random fact, but a result of our involvement in those communities and the similar activities of our neighbors. Many chose they're homes based on the social values of the local community, including their involvement in the sucess of their community schools

We have two primary responsibilities:

- to our children to ensure that they have the best educational environment and opportunities

- to our wider community through our taxes

SLHS takes a disproportionate share of educational tax dollars

Why, when the staff-student ratio is 40% higher than at Madison, is the school not delivering educational excellence?

You have have disproportionate staffing, a lovely new refit and a chance for a fresh start.

Why not fix the performance, show that you can perform at county standards or above, attract parents to send their chidren, perhaps to an IB magnet

... and stop acting like spoiled playground bullies


Why is this all about you? What about the SB's responsibilities to us.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris ()
Date: February 13, 2008 09:25AM

Why does SLHS think kids from outside communities can fix SLHS?
Since when RD is used to fix a school?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 13, 2008 09:46AM

stephanie's new rant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie - you clearly don't get it
>
> Going through your points 1 by 1
>
> 1. 'Bright students at SLHS'
> no-one has ever disputed this BUT the issue is
> whether the educational environment is adequate to
> support either them or any other part of the
> curve
>
> for example compare SAT deficit at SLHS compared
> to Madison
>
> Asian -192 points
> Black -88 points
> Hispanic - 19 points
>
> economically disadvantaged -73 points
> limited english - 168 points
> disabilities - 153 points
>
> SLHS is failing every group (perhaps excluding IB
> diploma students)
>
> 2. 'Redistricting is needed'
>
> No - south lakes does not have an enrolement
> problem and its programmatic problem, although
> important, is secondary - at the root is a
> PERFORMANCE problem
>
> Look at SOL failure rates at SLHS vs Madison
>
> Biology 6x
> chemistry 3x
> earth science 6x
> english reading 4x
> english writing 5x
> VA-US history 9x
>
> Redistricting is designed to mask, not fix the
> fundamental performance issue
>
> That's why parents don't want their kids to be
> send to SLHS as political pawns
>
> 3. 'Nothing is guaranteed'
>
> Parents expectation of high quality education is
> guarenteed - that's what we expect in return for
> high taxes
>
> Due process is guaranteed - not arbitrary and
> capricious behavior like the current flailing RD
>
> If SLHS set its stall out to attract students it
> might do okay - but coercing parents into leaving
> their existing community just because you think
> they should - well that's guaranteed to cause a
> revolt
>
> ---------
>
> your rant "The only thing your mere cries and
> whines tell us on the supporting side is'
>
> A. 'no faith in our children'
>
> What a stupid comment. our responsibility is to
> give our children the best educational environment
> we can, one where the community believes in
> education and with a proven track record of
> performance - and the let them thrive
>
> You seem to be advocating that educational
> environment doesn't matter - ask Harvard about
> that
>
> It does matter, it matters a lot - not only that,
> its what the parents who are being annexed believe
> and in a democracy, that's what counts
>
>
> B. 'we really only care about ourselves'
>
> we really object to being ripped from the school
> communities to which we belong - whose success is
> not some random fact, but a result of our
> involvement in those communities and the similar
> activities of our neighbors. Many chose they're
> homes based on the social values of the local
> community, including their involvement in the
> sucess of their community schools
>
> We have two primary responsibilities:
>
> - to our children to ensure that they have the
> best educational environment and opportunities
>
> - to our wider community through our taxes
>
> SLHS takes a disproportionate share of educational
> tax dollars
>
> Why, when the staff-student ratio is 40% higher
> than at Madison, is the school not delivering
> educational excellence?
>
> You have have disproportionate staffing, a lovely
> new refit and a chance for a fresh start.
>
> Why not fix the performance, show that you can
> perform at county standards or above, attract
> parents to send their chidren, perhaps to an IB
> magnet
>
> ... and stop acting like spoiled playground
> bullies
>
>
> Why is this all about you? What about the SB's
> responsibilities to us.


Yep, let the school board members know. Problem is they seem to have selective listening skills and they really should listen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 13, 2008 09:54AM

Neen asks:

"Any odds taken on Crossfield being back in the mix? They dragged McNair and Oak Hill back"

Crossfield wasn't involved in any of the previous scenarios, despite the location of the school being close enough to South Lakes to make the SLPTSA salivate at the mention of its name. (Plus the "split feeder" thing, that currently is like a 95:5 percent split, so not much of a split in practice.) Three problems with trying to take on Crossfield..

1. If you take all or most of Crossfield, you also have to take Fox Mill or you create an island. Crossfield + Fox Mill combined are too large to fit.

2. Most of the people in Crossfield live way at the western edge of the district, so if you split it at (say) West Ox, you don't get very many kids, and you've antagized people without diluting the demographics as much as Stu would like to.

3. It's an Oakton school, so moving people from there doesn't help reduce enrollment at Chantilly or Westfield, and we've already seen that there is no appetite to move Chantilly people to Oakton.

So...while strange things have happened already, this is a low probability scenario. Apologies to the salivating ones. Be content with Fox Mill, who will be missed at Oakton.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: nogoforme2late ()
Date: February 13, 2008 10:02AM

nogoforme Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as a reminder, if you want to speak at the next
> public school board meeting on the 19 of Feb. you
> must sign up before the 4:30 on the 15th of Feb.
> The 18th of Feb is a holiday.

Sorry, but the speaker list was closed or filled by 4:30ish yesterday. If you were suspended in time on a 95 mixing bowl ramp or actually still at work, you got screwed. But if you were lucky enough to be at home watching Oprah or playing chess at Sunrise, then you might have had a chance.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 13, 2008 10:05AM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen asks:
>
> "Any odds taken on Crossfield being back in the
> mix? They dragged McNair and Oak Hill back"
>
> Crossfield wasn't involved in any of the previous
> scenarios, despite the location of the school
> being close enough to South Lakes to make the
> SLPTSA salivate at the mention of its name. (Plus
> the "split feeder" thing, that currently is like a
> 95:5 percent split, so not much of a split in
> practice.) Three problems with trying to take on
> Crossfield..
>
> 1. If you take all or most of Crossfield, you
> also have to take Fox Mill or you create an
> island. Crossfield + Fox Mill combined are too
> large to fit.
>
> 2. Most of the people in Crossfield live way at
> the western edge of the district, so if you split
> it at (say) West Ox, you don't get very many kids,
> and you've antagized people without diluting the
> demographics as much as Stu would like to.
>
> 3. It's an Oakton school, so moving people from
> there doesn't help reduce enrollment at Chantilly
> or Westfield, and we've already seen that there is
> no appetite to move Chantilly people to Oakton.
>
> So...while strange things have happened already,
> this is a low probability scenario. Apologies to
> the salivating ones. Be content with Fox Mill,
> who will be missed at Oakton.


Be content about Fox Mill? There are way too many p'ssed off parents from that area. No doubt there will be pupil placements out of SL to Oakton from that area.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: goround ()
Date: February 13, 2008 10:09AM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen asks:
>
> "Any odds taken on Crossfield being back in the
> mix? They dragged McNair and Oak Hill back"
>
> Crossfield wasn't involved in any of the previous
> scenarios, despite the location of the school
> being close enough to South Lakes to make the
> SLPTSA salivate at the mention of its name. (Plus
> the "split feeder" thing, that currently is like a
> 95:5 percent split, so not much of a split in
> practice.) Three problems with trying to take on
> Crossfield..
>
> 1. If you take all or most of Crossfield, you
> also have to take Fox Mill or you create an
> island. Crossfield + Fox Mill combined are too
> large to fit.
>
> 2. Most of the people in Crossfield live way at
> the western edge of the district, so if you split
> it at (say) West Ox, you don't get very many kids,
> and you've antagized people without diluting the
> demographics as much as Stu would like to.
>
> 3. It's an Oakton school, so moving people from
> there doesn't help reduce enrollment at Chantilly
> or Westfield, and we've already seen that there is
> no appetite to move Chantilly people to Oakton.
>
> So...while strange things have happened already,
> this is a low probability scenario. Apologies to
> the salivating ones. Be content with Fox Mill,
> who will be missed at Oakton.

All of these arguments fit the Floris crowd especially when you compare the Floris/McNair locations. But it seems Crossfield is more special to the school board than Floris (which has become the staging area for all of the west county's capacity fixes).

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