sayitan'tso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> That's a great idea. Just be careful if Dan
> Snyder becomes a principal, or whoever would
> draft. He may trade all of his picks for really
> rich kids from other schools and really throw off
> the whole balance, :)


Now that you mention it, we need to fix the NFL as well. It simply isn't fair that the same team wins it every year. We need some of those Patriots redistricted to the Redskins.

Also, they should do away with the playoffs. Instead they should just take turns naming a champion so that each team gets a turn holding the trophy.

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love the draft idea. Someone on one of the
> earlier pages suggested to an SL poster that maybe
> they should run this like Fantasy Football but
> with kids.
>
> Wouldnt that be fun?
>
> Johnny Smith
> Causcasion
> GPA 3.5
> Household Income $300,000 thousands
> Heritage- Norweigan-Irish- German
> Hobbies- Skateboarding, surfing, ice fishing
> Sports- Football and LAX

Now hold on there a minute. No fair posting information regarding GPA. This is strictly about socioeconomics remember? Also, no fair posting highlight reels of your kid listening intently in class or taking notes.

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmm, strange both SLHSParent and Achievement
> left
> > around the same time. Wonder what it could be?
>
> > May be a private meeting with one of the SB
> > member.
>
>
> I am here. Don't ever send your Fox Mill and
> Floris kids over here. We are fed up with you
> guys. They are not welcome at SLHS. Why should we
> be friendly with your Fox Mill and Floris kids if
> they dislike SLHS so much? Bunch of nerds.


Thank goodness. On your way to yoga class, be sure to grab the rest of the SLHS PTA Bon Bon club, so everyone can recite your mantra over and over again. hmmmmmmmmmmm

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In addition, no matter how much people say that
> programming is "the reason" South Lakes is
> underenrolled, there is absolutely no factual or
> any other data to support that.

There is no factual basis to rebut this speculation either.

No on has explained the chronic shortfall in yield to South Lakes from its pyramid elementary schools.

Anecdotally, as a SL parent for more than 12 years, I know several families that have moved out of the SL attendance area as their kids reached HS age to get away from IB or the staff. I've posted about this observation many times on this forum.

But no one has produced or referenced a study that explains this phenomenon. I agree that until it is understood, underenrollment at SL could be (emphasize could be, Neen) chronic.

Everyone is talking about the proposed boundary changes by Stu and Kathy. I cannot find it on the SB site. Could someone post the link? (maybe it is not up yet). Thanks.

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I do need to straighten something out. More than
> 45% of students at South Lakes participate in IB
> (exactly the way kids at Herndon participate in
> AP). (I think the number is higher.)

This is not true. 45% OF SL kids are not taking IB SL or HL courses. 45% of SL kids are not taking IB exams. The only way the 45% number is approached is if you add the kids in "pre-IB" courses. IBO is insisting that FCPS drop the "pre-IB" label from these "honors" courses because they are not part of the IB curriculum.

> People must
> not confuse the diploma program with the IB
> program. In addition, the IB program was not
> actually "thrust" upon any of the schools. That
> would have been impossible since it took so many
> people a lot of time not only to organize the IB
> programs here in Fairfax, but also to implement
> the "full AP" program at the same time.

Yes it was. I had a kid at SL when it happened. The community was not consulted. It was imposed by the Area superintendent. There is a history of this posted earlier on this forum.

> Regarding another question, removing IB at South
> Lakes will absolutely not solve any problems.

What empirical data does this assertion rely upon?

If more families are pupil placing out than in for IB v, AP (which is what the numbers show) then returning to AP would end that loss of students.


I personally know of several SL families and teachers who left to avoid IB.

> In fact, given that this program is on the upswing
> because of Bruce Butler,

This Sl parent does not agree and I am not alone.

> it is likely to be a gemstone in the FCPS cap and is headed where
> Marshall is now.

While that would be an improvement (three nephews at Marshall), it's not nearly good enough. With better leadership and staff, like Stuart or Marshall, SL could be where Langley and Woodson are now.

Anonymous Wrote:
> FR-
> Sorry I never did get back to you. Use the raw
> data here:
> http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/
>
> Go by cohorts and adjust starting with an
> adjustment using the 5 year average of inflows or
> outflows. This is the standard FCPS model for
> projections. Once you understand the model FCPS
> uses and backtest for errors you can see the
> problems and adjust. ...
>
> Since you are adept with the CIP go back say 2
> years and see where schools were projected to be
> today and where they actually are now. McKibben
> recommends a 2% per year error variance.

So many posts this morning! I'll try to respond to a dozen or so.

It is easy to look at this year's first graders and estimate how many second graders a school will have next year. To guess third graders is a little trickier because some students will move to GT Centers.

The next three years are also fairly easy to predict (3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th). Estimating the numbers into a middle school is much more difficult because so many elementary schools are split into other pyramids and because so many students move into or out of GT Centers or private and parochial schools.

The estimate from seventh to eighth is again easy.

The estimate from eighth to ninth is the hardest of all. Many middle schools are split between high schools. Some students will "come back" to a pyramid from a GT Center. Some will leave for Jefferson. Some will go to or come back from private and parochial schools. Some will pupil place for various reasons.

After ninth grade different high schools show significant differences in loss rate. Jefferson has very few losses (no surprise).

The below numbers show the FOUR year decrease in a particular grade (e.g., “Class of 2007”) from September of their freshman year to June of their senior year for the last four years. All data are from the “Membership” numbers posted on the FCPS website to which you so kindly pointed us.

There are many reasons behind these numbers and leaving before graduation is not necessarily “bad.” However, some may find it significant that, for whatever reason, about eighteen percent of Herndon and South Lakes freshmen probably won’t be there to graduate, while at the other high schools in the current boundary discussion that number is closer to five percent.

It should also be noted that in the Class of 2007 the loss rate at Oakton and South Lakes were almost the same, Chantilly was very low, and Herndon very high. I am not trying to explain these numbers, only to state them.

Chantilly
Class of 2007 0.31%
Class of 2006 4.79%
Class of 2005 5.01%
Class of 2004 10.83%
Average 5.05%

Herndon
Class of 2007 22.50%
Class of 2006 17.31%
Class of 2005 18.83%
Class of 2004 14.11%
Average 18.19%

Langley
Class of 2007 5.83%
Class of 2006 6.09%
Class of 2005 1.71%
Class of 2004 3.42%
Average 4.26%

Madison
Class of 2007 3.71%
Class of 2006 5.37%
Class of 2005 9.52%
Class of 2004 6.63%
Average 6.24%

Oakton
Class of 2007 11.71%
Class of 2006 4.23%
Class of 2005 3.82%
Class of 2004 -2.29%
Average 4.62%

South Lakes
Class of 2007 11.75%
Class of 2006 18.70%
Class of 2005 18.72%
Class of 2004 19.71%
Average 17.36%

Westfield
Class of 2007 4.77%
Class of 2006 6.57%
Class of 2005 6.75%
Class of 2004 6.42%
Average 6.11%

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is obvious that all he cares for is South Lakes and South Lakes only.

If only that were true, then, he wouldn't have left Railly in place for 7 years and he wouldn't have let SL get stuck with IB without community input.

When his close friend complained about the Madison principal, a change was made in almost no time.

Can't really tell what Stuy cares about but its not about Reston or its kids.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 12:44PM by Thomas More.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> I find this very ironic.
> First you all complain that they don't listen to
> you.
>
> Now that they are proposing new options to factor
> in your input ...
---------
If they would listen to us they would put this whole redistricting on hold for a least a year. A couple of questions to be answered first:

1) Is South Lakes going to get rid of IB and revert to an AP curriculum so SLHS students can have the same curriculum choices as in other schools in this study?

2) Are they serious about this 2,000 pupil high school ideal? If so, will Westfield become an secondary school and Chantilly lose its modular? If so, the new "Sully High" must be built first to accommodate all the displaced students, and THEN do a redistricting.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
> ... The most telling comment was they will let all 632
> students who are redestricted to South Lakes pupil
> place out of South Lakes because South Lakes does
> not offer AP program. HELLO !! Isn't the current
> way better? Let people pupil place their kids
> into South Lakes who want IB program for their
> kids!!
>
-----------------
Since Oakton will have plenty of space for pupil-placements, it seems like the only change is less bus service so more parents will form car pools and more high schoolers will drive to Oakton. Result: More traffic and parking problems.

Still no updated options on the FCPS website. Is it possible they won't put them up because they realize it will essentially mean they admit that this RD is a failure?

How did we get from Option 5 to Option 11b/12? Where did options 6-10 go?

HerndonHSDad Wrote:
> ... SLHS PTA does not want McNair ... And now, they want to push those
> same Title I students to our Herndon HS? ...

What was the purpose of this redistricting proposal again? Something about more curriculum options at South Lakes, reducing split feeders, and making it easier to make the cheer squad at Westfield?

How does sending part of Oak Hill to Westfield and more of McNair to Herndon fit into any of these goals?

AP Wrote:
> ... Why SLHS doesn't want to consider volunteer based
> pupil placement? Don't we have Ms. Castro bragging
> some 500 signitures willing to join SLHS? ...

---------
Easiest solution of all.

Maybe if FCPS would provide transportation to SLHS for everyone who wants to go there everyone will be happy.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP Wrote:
> > ... Why SLHS doesn't want to consider volunteer
> based
> > pupil placement? Don't we have Ms. Castro
> bragging
> > some 500 signitures willing to join SLHS? ...
>
> ---------
> Easiest solution of all.
>
> Maybe if FCPS would provide transportation to SLHS
> for everyone who wants to go there everyone will
> be happy.

That would work if FCPS provided the transportation--just one catch though,what about Kathy's hell bent on shrinking Westfield by pushing Floris and McNair out? Again, this RD needs to be halted and restudied. It is not gonna work..option #5 11 12 or whatever the heck the number is, it is not gonna work.

Witness Wrote:
> SLHS is not a bad school. They do have issues with
> previous oversight and a bad reputation.... Can't
> a new reputation be developed as quickly as their
> previous reputation became tarnished? ...
>
----------------
The "worst" school in FCPS is better than many schools elsewhere.

But to answer your question, unfortunately it is very difficult to rehabilitate a "tarnished" reputation.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP Wrote:
> > ... Why SLHS doesn't want to consider volunteer
> based
> > pupil placement? Don't we have Ms. Castro
> bragging
> > some 500 signitures willing to join SLHS? ...
>
> ---------
> Easiest solution of all.
>
> Maybe if FCPS would provide transportation to SLHS
> for everyone who wants to go there everyone will
> be happy.


It would be the easiest solution. Except more than half of Erika's signatures are people who already live within the SL Boundaries or people with no kids in HS for another decade, so it isn't a helpful petition. Just an opportunity for for those people to practice their penmanship.

Call Dean's office ask why havent you posted the new scenarios? Get on it already there are lives in the balance here.

I want to know which streets in Fox Mill are included. By the way the reason they are on number 11b and 12 is that they through out 5a-11a before yesterday.

They did decide during the meeting to renumber the new scenarios so as not to confuse the public.

We the public hate to be confused. However you could ask why stop now? We have been confused by this for months. Keep it up, we are used to it now.

maybe new hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Still no updated options on the FCPS website. Is
> it possible they won't put them up because they
> realize it will essentially mean they admit that
> this RD is a failure?
>
> How did we get from Option 5 to Option 11b/12?
> Where did options 6-10 go?


This is the school board, remember? They have a history of adding things up correctly

Future SL Parent Wrote:
> The students placing out for AP and placing IB are
> close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor.
> What should be a factor is the will and desire of
> the community. Most of the SL community would
> rather have more students from Fox Mill, Floris,
> wherever, than care about one program over
> another.
>
> Many people in the SL community are very
> interested in adding AP or transitioning to an AP
> school. IB was never approved by the community
> but was thrust upon the schools. The SL community
> including ALL future SL parents, current and
> potentially redistricted feeder school parents -
> should have input on what curriculum is offered.
> IB is an excellent rigorous college prep program -
> but if it serves only a small percentage of the
> population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from
> sending their kids to SL, how is that best serving
> the needs of the school community?

----
If AP and IB are close to equal, then get rid of the far more expensive IB. Did you hear that speech on costs? If I copied this down right, the two programs cost the same but:
- Less than 30% of high school students are in IB schools and over 70% are in AP schools.
- IB costs 5 times as much as AP in terms of exams taken.
- IB costs 6 times as much as AP in terms of numbers of students who take at least one IB or AP exam.
- Over the last 5 years, AP has grown 4 times as fast as IB.

As has been pointed out over and over, within FCPS no high school, not even huge Robinson, can support both IB and a full AP program. In an IB school IB courses must be preeminent.

Put this RD proposal on hold. This spring form a parent-student-staff committee, like the one Woodson had, to consider IB and AP in depth. Include a proportionate number of Floris and Fox Mill members.

If the decision is to revert to AP, allow the next two years to grandfather the current IB students while SL rebuilds its AP program.

And THEN talk about redistricting.

5+5=11b or 12 or whatever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maybe new hawk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Still no updated options on the FCPS website.
> Is
> > it possible they won't put them up because they
> > realize it will essentially mean they admit
> that
> > this RD is a failure?
> >
> > How did we get from Option 5 to Option 11b/12?
> > Where did options 6-10 go?
>
>
> This is the school board, remember? They have a
> history of adding things up correctly


They do have a history of adding things up correctly? How so?

Draft Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sayitan'tso Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>
> > That's a great idea. Just be careful if Dan
> > Snyder becomes a principal, or whoever would
> > draft. He may trade all of his picks for
> really
> > rich kids from other schools and really throw
> off
> > the whole balance, :)
>
>
> Now that you mention it, we need to fix the NFL as
> well. It simply isn't fair that the same team
> wins it every year. We need some of those
> Patriots redistricted to the Redskins.
>
> Also, they should do away with the playoffs.
> Instead they should just take turns naming a
> champion so that each team gets a turn holding the
> trophy.

Yeah ... we should have 11 players for Patriots and 6 for the redskins, and put the majority of the undrafted players to redskins.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 5+5=11b or 12 or whatever Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > maybe new hawk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Still no updated options on the FCPS website.
>
> > Is
> > > it possible they won't put them up because
> they
> > > realize it will essentially mean they admit
> > that
> > > this RD is a failure?
> > >
> > > How did we get from Option 5 to Option 11b/12?
>
> > > Where did options 6-10 go?
> >
> >
> > This is the school board, remember? They have a
> > history of adding things up correctly
>
>
> They do have a history of adding things up
> correctly? How so?

People, I think time has come for the School board to realize what a toxic issue this is. The earlier they dump Stu and Kathy the better it would do to the school board image. People might just say that someone in the board took a leadership role to rein in these 2 folks who are out of control. They think kids and communities are chess pawns that can be moved around so that things will work in some combination. Is there someone upto this challenge, Abe are you listening?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Future SL Parent Wrote:
> > The students placing out for AP and placing IB
> are
> > close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor.
> > What should be a factor is the will and desire
> of
> > the community. Most of the SL community would
> > rather have more students from Fox Mill,
> Floris,
> > wherever, than care about one program over
> > another.
> >
> > Many people in the SL community are very
> > interested in adding AP or transitioning to an
> AP
> > school. IB was never approved by the community
> > but was thrust upon the schools. The SL
> community
> > including ALL future SL parents, current and
> > potentially redistricted feeder school parents
> -
> > should have input on what curriculum is offered.
>
> > IB is an excellent rigorous college prep program
> -
> > but if it serves only a small percentage of the
> > population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from
> > sending their kids to SL, how is that best
> serving
> > the needs of the school community?
>
> ----
> If AP and IB are close to equal, then get rid of
> the far more expensive IB. Did you hear that
> speech on costs? If I copied this down right, the
> two programs cost the same but:
> - Less than 30% of high school students are in IB
> schools and over 70% are in AP schools.
> - IB costs 5 times as much as AP in terms of
> exams taken.
> - IB costs 6 times as much as AP in terms of
> numbers of students who take at least one IB or AP
> exam.
> - Over the last 5 years, AP has grown 4 times as
> fast as IB.
>
> As has been pointed out over and over, within FCPS
> no high school, not even huge Robinson, can
> support both IB and a full AP program. In an IB
> school IB courses must be preeminent.
>
> Put this RD proposal on hold. This spring form a
> parent-student-staff committee, like the one
> Woodson had, to consider IB and AP in depth.
> Include a proportionate number of Floris and Fox
> Mill members.
>
> If the decision is to revert to AP, allow the next
> two years to grandfather the current IB students
> while SL rebuilds its AP program.
>
> And THEN talk about redistricting.


why Fox Mill and Floris? SLHS asked that they stay away. An offer that the majority will gladly accept. Maybe the astronauts would be a better audience? Maybe South Lakes could make amends by inviting some from McNair?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anonymous Wrote:
> > FR-
> > Sorry I never did get back to you. Use the raw
> > data here:
> > http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/
> >
> > Go by cohorts and adjust starting with an
> > adjustment using the 5 year average of inflows
> or
> > outflows. This is the standard FCPS model for
> > projections. Once you understand the model
> FCPS
> > uses and backtest for errors you can see the
> > problems and adjust. ...
> >
> > Since you are adept with the CIP go back say 2
> > years and see where schools were projected to
> be
> > today and where they actually are now.
> McKibben
> > recommends a 2% per year error variance.
>
> So many posts this morning! I'll try to respond to
> a dozen or so.
>
> It is easy to look at this year's first graders
> and estimate how many second graders a school will
> have next year. To guess third graders is a little
> trickier because some students will move to GT
> Centers.
>
> The next three years are also fairly easy to
> predict (3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th). Estimating the
> numbers into a middle school is much more
> difficult because so many elementary schools are
> split into other pyramids and because so many
> students move into or out of GT Centers or private
> and parochial schools.
>
> The estimate from seventh to eighth is again
> easy.
>
> The estimate from eighth to ninth is the hardest
> of all. Many middle schools are split between
> high schools. Some students will "come back" to a
> pyramid from a GT Center. Some will leave for
> Jefferson. Some will go to or come back from
> private and parochial schools. Some will pupil
> place for various reasons.
>
> After ninth grade different high schools show
> significant differences in loss rate. Jefferson
> has very few losses (no surprise).
>
> The below numbers show the FOUR year decrease in a
> particular grade (e.g., “Class of 2007”) from
> September of their freshman year to June of their
> senior year for the last four years. All data are
> from the “Membership” numbers posted on the FCPS
> website to which you so kindly pointed us.
>
> There are many reasons behind these numbers and
> leaving before graduation is not necessarily
> “bad.” However, some may find it significant that,
> for whatever reason, about eighteen percent of
> Herndon and South Lakes freshmen probably won’t be
> there to graduate, while at the other high schools
> in the current boundary discussion that number is
> closer to five percent.
>
> It should also be noted that in the Class of 2007
> the loss rate at Oakton and South Lakes were
> almost the same, Chantilly was very low, and
> Herndon very high. I am not trying to explain
> these numbers, only to state them.
>
> Chantilly
> Class of 2007 0.31%
> Class of 2006 4.79%
> Class of 2005 5.01%
> Class of 2004 10.83%
> Average 5.05%
>
> Herndon
> Class of 2007 22.50%
> Class of 2006 17.31%
> Class of 2005 18.83%
> Class of 2004 14.11%
> Average 18.19%
>
> Langley
> Class of 2007 5.83%
> Class of 2006 6.09%
> Class of 2005 1.71%
> Class of 2004 3.42%
> Average 4.26%
>
> Madison
> Class of 2007 3.71%
> Class of 2006 5.37%
> Class of 2005 9.52%
> Class of 2004 6.63%
> Average 6.24%
>
> Oakton
> Class of 2007 11.71%
> Class of 2006 4.23%
> Class of 2005 3.82%
> Class of 2004 -2.29%
> Average 4.62%
>
> South Lakes
> Class of 2007 11.75%
> Class of 2006 18.70%
> Class of 2005 18.72%
> Class of 2004 19.71%
> Average 17.36%
>
> Westfield
> Class of 2007 4.77%
> Class of 2006 6.57%
> Class of 2005 6.75%
> Class of 2004 6.42%
> Average 6.11%

I don't recall making a value judgment...I just showed you how to do your own projections. I am focused on the high school level which you astutuely show is the hardest to predict (although some would say kindergarten is the hardest). FCPS averages the actual inflow/outflow actual numbers between cohorts. So how many kids do we lose between 5th and 6th grade over the last 5 years. That is what is added or subtracted along with any expected development in projecting next years 6th grade class.

Have you looked at the CIP from 2 years ago to check projected vs. actual for this year?

How do you measure students that come or leave for more subjective reasons or for macroeconomic reasons?

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 5+5=11b or 12 or whatever Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > maybe new hawk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Still no updated options on the FCPS website.
>
> > Is
> > > it possible they won't put them up because
> they
> > > realize it will essentially mean they admit
> > that
> > > this RD is a failure?
> > >
> > > How did we get from Option 5 to Option 11b/12?
>
> > > Where did options 6-10 go?
> >
> >
> > This is the school board, remember? They have a
> > history of adding things up correctly
>
>
> They do have a history of adding things up
> correctly? How so?


should be incorrectly

Achievement Wrote:
> ...Herndon does a very good job of
> working with its current population of
> disadvantaged kids, so I know these kids would be
> well cared for. ...Unfortunately, the very people affected by
> this will have absolutely no voice in the matter.
> It will take the Herndon community to rally behind
> them. You won't see them at the next hearing,
> unless they are prompted and supported in getting
> there. ...
>
> ...I do not think many
> of the people posting here really understand why
> it is so important to raise the general ed numbers
> to a minimum of 1,700 at South Lakes and other
> schools. The scheduling conflicts and lack of
> course choices is really a major problem at all
> smaller schools, not just South Lakes. It's a very
> severe problem that nobody else in this boundary
> study faces. People can pontificate about it all
> they want, but to those who do not go to schools
> with a gen ed population of around 1,100 (South
> Lakes), it is pure opinion and conjecture. They
> would be as adamant about gaining students at
> their own schools if they faced the same
> situation. ...
>
Ignoring for the moment your unending patronizing of children whose family incomes are not as high as yours, you need to accept that your "minimum of 1,700" general ed" students is not an achievable goal across FCPS. To make it easier for you to find it among the many recent posts, here again is what I posted last night:

"Posted by: Forum Reader (IP Logged)
Date: February 11, 2008 04:36PM

Achievement Wrote:
> ...The bottom line, though, is the desire of FCPS to
> move schools closer to an ideal population of
> 2,000 (or within a range with 1,700 gen ed kids
> being the minimum) that staff have determined to
> be an ideal student population to give everyone
> the course selection and scheduling flexibility
> they deserve while maintaining a school that can
> be personal and nurturing and managable. ...

A minimum of 1700 TOTAL students is conceivable, but not 1700 Gen Ed.

On 28 Sep 2007 FCPS had 12,473 Spec Ed students, an average of 520 per pyramid, or about 175 per high school.

Every high school has its share of Special Ed students. It certainly would not be "fair" to bus Spec Ed students further away from home and only to schools with "excess" room for them!

1500 Gen Ed students per high school is therefore about the highest minimum goal that can be expected given the capacity of the smaller FCPS base high schools:
Marshall 1,500
Stuart 1,650
Edison 1,675
So County 1,700
McLean 1,725
Lee 1,850
Madison 1,875
Capacities & balances include modular additions."

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, people here are missing the point on Ms.
> Achievement...she's from Herndon.
> She's championing the RD process because she knows
> it leaves the Astronaut schools at Herndon, and my
> money says she lives there. Its fine for her to
> have others moved to SLHS just as long as she can
> stay at Herndon. That's what the little boundary
> study coffee group focused on..how can we target
> other people so we don't have to change schools?

Hmm, if we are trying to guess someone's superhero identity, I think Ms. Achievement is a South Lakes person who lives in Herndon, but she works in South Lakes or could be part of the County Staff. She seems to have way more to say about processes and inner information than the average internet researcher. Well spoken but stumped by Quantum...

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only way for the School Board to remain within
> scope, and satfisfy their criteria is to use
> Option #7 (modified Option #1):
>
> 1. Move Floris and McNair to South Lakes HS. This
> solves SL's enrollment issue and greatly reduces
> Westfield's enrollment.
>
> 2. Move Oak Hill from Chantilly to Westfield. This
> significantly reduces Chantilly's enrollment and
> partially backfills Westfield. Westfield still
> remains significantly reduced.
>
> 3. Move Madison island to South Lakes. This
> eliminates an island.
>
> 4. Herndon remains untouched. There is no
> identified enrollment issue there.
>
> 5. Oakton remains untouched. There is no
> identified enrollment issue there.
>
> I am not advocating the above plan, but am trying
> to imagine how it could be done within the current
> constraints.


And should Floris wave to the Fox Mill kids as they drive by their school on their way to SLHS? Get real, if Floris gets sent to SL, Fox Mill, which is closer should also.

Wonder what they are doing? Chalking up new strategy may be? Face saving formula?

Anyone wants to guess?

Quantum, you make perfect sense. Thanks for saying what should go through the minds of everyone, including the School Board.

Future SL Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Future SL Parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > The students placing out for AP and placing
> IB
> > are
> > > close to equal so that shouldn't be a factor.
>
> > > What should be a factor is the will and
> desire
> > of
> > > the community. Most of the SL community
> would
> > > rather have more students from Fox Mill,
> > Floris,
> > > wherever, than care about one program over
> > > another.
> > >
> > > Many people in the SL community are very
> > > interested in adding AP or transitioning to
> an
> > AP
> > > school. IB was never approved by the
> community
> > > but was thrust upon the schools. The SL
> > community
> > > including ALL future SL parents, current and
> > > potentially redistricted feeder school
> parents
> > -
> > > should have input on what curriculum is
> offered.
> >
> > > IB is an excellent rigorous college prep
> program
> > -
> > > but if it serves only a small percentage of
> the
> > > population, < 10%, and dissuades parents from
> > > sending their kids to SL, how is that best
> > serving
> > > the needs of the school community?
> >
> >
> > SL Parent,
> > The school board is not hearing from you, so
> > doesn't think there is any interest in AP at SL.
>
> > If you have this opinion, email the school
> board.
>
>
> I have emailed some of them - what is your feeling
> on the issue?


Honestly, when this all started I would have leaned towards AP, and still think it should be open to discussion between SL and future parents. However, I feel like parents started out with preconcieved ideas and wish they would really evaluate the merits of IB with an open mind before voting against it.

Since this started, I became aware of how much more writing my kids do than other schools, and I think this is because it's an IB pyramid. One is ia strong writer, the other was not really. Both are now very strong writers, and are able whip out essays, etc easily. I think this is a big plus.

I've said before, I am a practicing engineer, and writing is one of my job requirements. The people who get to the highest levels of my organization are engineers who can write and communicate, not the math/science nerds.

I don't get why people keep discussing the IB diploma when comparisons with AP are being made. There is simply no comparable animal within AP. The direct comparion should be between taking AP classes and IB classe, which in my mind are equivalent. The IB diploma is the just icing on the cake if your kid decides they want to do the work.

Pre-IB classes are the same as honors classes, with an IB bent. In fact, The pre-IB classes at IB schools may be the only way to get honors classes in 9th and 10th grade anymore--I've heard that honors courses are being phased out of AP schools--don't know what the status of this is.

Anyway, both sides should approach this issue with an open mind and then have a vote. I think the subject would be of interest to most parents, many of whom probably don't really know where they stand on it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 04:40PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

whoops, that was supposed to be a 4, not a $...

I am a little surprised that very few are mentioning the real estate market. There were 4000 foreclosures last year in Fairfax County and there are currently 1400 listings for foreclosed properties. The market is soft-people can't move to avoid a boundary change.

The timing of this boundary change is poor given the real estate situation. It is just another reason to put it off.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wonder what they are doing? Chalking up new
> strategy may be? Face saving formula?
>
> Anyone wants to guess?

The sb (excluding Stu and Kathy) including fcps staff are probably recovering from their shock at Stu's and Kathy's new options. They are probably squabbling in private over which streets to divvy up from Floris and Fox Mill for Oakton and SL and other issues..and getting prepared for another hearing from the McNair community. Who knows. Either way this RD has got to be the most screwed up to date.

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Enough is enough. I am one of those proud SLHS
> parents. I love our high school. This RD debate
> brings a lot of negative bias to SLHS. We don't
> want that. For those Fox Mill and Floris kids, if
> you don't want to join us, keep your asses at
> where they belong. But don't trash SLHS. I am sick
> and tired of it. You want to pick a fight with me?
> let's do it face to face.


Come now, let's be more mature about this. No one wants to physically pick a fight but you. The position that Floris and Fox Mill take is that no one likes to be forced to change from a positive situation that works for their kids and family to a situation where the real problems have not been identified and targeted for fixing. You must admit, you would not want the county to say that you must now send your children to DC public schools because they are underenrolled, correct?

ParentOf4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHSParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Enough is enough. I am one of those proud SLHS
> > parents. I love our high school. This RD debate
> > brings a lot of negative bias to SLHS. We don't
> > want that. For those Fox Mill and Floris kids,
> if
> > you don't want to join us, keep your asses at
> > where they belong. But don't trash SLHS. I am
> sick
> > and tired of it. You want to pick a fight with
> me?
> > let's do it face to face.
>
>
> Come now, let's be more mature about this. No one
> wants to physically pick a fight but you. The
> position that Floris and Fox Mill take is that no
> one likes to be forced to change from a positive
> situation that works for their kids and family to
> a situation where the real problems have not been
> identified and targeted for fixing. You must
> admit, you would not want the county to say that
> you must now send your children to DC public
> schools because they are underenrolled, correct?


Please gain some perspective. South Lakes is not an inner city school. Really, you guys exaggerate--it is tiring.

EXTRA! EXTRA! GET YOUR NEW RD MAPS HERE! Don't push, plenty for everyone,sure to displease all!

Welcome to the split feeder club Oak Hill!

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

maybe new hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EXTRA! EXTRA! GET YOUR NEW RD MAPS HERE! Don't
> push, plenty for everyone,sure to displease all!
>
> Welcome to the split feeder club Oak Hill!
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
> blic?OpenFrameSet


Where do we find it from boarddocs.com? Thanks.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maybe new hawk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > EXTRA! EXTRA! GET YOUR NEW RD MAPS HERE! Don't
> > push, plenty for everyone,sure to displease
> all!
> >
> > Welcome to the split feeder club Oak Hill!
> >
> >
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
>
> > blic?OpenFrameSet
>
>
> Where do we find it from boarddocs.com? Thanks.

Here you go.
Attachments:

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ParentOf4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLHSParent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Enough is enough. I am one of those proud
> SLHS
> > > parents. I love our high school. This RD
> debate
> > > brings a lot of negative bias to SLHS. We
> don't
> > > want that. For those Fox Mill and Floris
> kids,
> > if
> > > you don't want to join us, keep your asses at
> > > where they belong. But don't trash SLHS. I am
> > sick
> > > and tired of it. You want to pick a fight
> with
> > me?
> > > let's do it face to face.
> >
> >
> > Come now, let's be more mature about this. No
> one
> > wants to physically pick a fight but you. The
> > position that Floris and Fox Mill take is that
> no
> > one likes to be forced to change from a
> positive
> > situation that works for their kids and family
> to
> > a situation where the real problems have not
> been
> > identified and targeted for fixing. You must
> > admit, you would not want the county to say
> that
> > you must now send your children to DC public
> > schools because they are underenrolled,
> correct?
>
>
> Please gain some perspective. South Lakes is not
> an inner city school. Really, you guys
> exaggerate--it is tiring.


Maybe not inner city, but the forced move carries the same weight to many families in these communities. Why not figure out what the problems are in your school first, then fix them, then invite people to come and learn there. Remember, we bought our homes outside of Reston because we did not buy into the whole planned community thing, why should we be forced to make up for those who bought there, then decided they wanted a different school for their child?

ParentOf$ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And should Floris wave to the Fox Mill kids as
> they drive by their school on their way to SLHS?
> Get real, if Floris gets sent to SL, Fox Mill,
> which is closer should also.

Relax, Parentof4, there's no agenda here. This was a scenario which best follows the SB criteria. Avoiding driving through another's high school territory to reach your own is not one of their criteria.

ParentOf4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Maybe not inner city, but the forced move carries
> the same weight to many families in these
> communities. Why not figure out what the problems
> are in your school first, then fix them, then
> invite people to come and learn there. Remember,
> we bought our homes outside of Reston because we
> did not buy into the whole planned community
> thing, why should we be forced to make up for
> those who bought there, then decided they wanted a
> different school for their child?


We know what the problem is--numbers. It's a numbers game, period. There is no exodus. That's been proven false, and goes against what we in SL see.

If everyone wants to reconsider the AP/IB issue, fine. But there are no inherent problems with IB. It's not an inferior program.

It's the numbers, stupid.

Can't understand? How does "assign to Oakton High School from Westfield that portion of the Floris attendance area that is east of Centreville Road and south of West Ox Road" makes sense? It's even long commute than Navy. Very efficiency I guess.

Reston cannot keep their own kids. So they picked the softest "advantaged" community and expect these kids to solve their problems. If you don't want to come, you are either a racist, or don't have an open mind.

I'm curious to see how open minded SLHS can be, if SLHS is converted to TJ west and all of these not qualified need to be sent somewhere else.

Elimination of split feeders was one of the criteria, and these new options create even MORE split feeders!!!! Where is the common sense? Our kids are just numbers to Stu and Kathy.

maybe new hawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EXTRA! EXTRA! GET YOUR NEW RD MAPS HERE! Don't
> push, plenty for everyone,sure to displease all!
>
> Welcome to the split feeder club Oak Hill!
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
> blic?OpenFrameSet


I would like to see the rationale for these new proposals. The end numbers for students at each school are virtually identical to Option 5.

The only difference between the Stu and Kathy proposals is that one keeps Fox Mill together (at SL) and further splits Floris (to Oakton), while the other keeps the second Floris piece together (at SL) and splits Fox Mill (Between SL/Oakton).

Both have the same pieces of McNair going to Herndon and Oak Hill to Westfield.

It appears as if this is designed simply to upset more people, since the end numbers aren't significantly affected.

As bad as these new options appear, I have to think that S & K wouldn't have proposed this unless they had reason to believe it would succeed.

I think all SB need a nice vacation to cool them down. Then come back working on this. S&K are out of their mind, don't know what they are doing here.


Bulldog Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elimination of split feeders was one of the
> criteria, and these new options create even MORE
> split feeders!!!! Where is the common sense? Our
> kids are just numbers to Stu and Kathy.

RDVictim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't understand? How does "assign to Oakton High
> School from Westfield that portion of the Floris
> attendance area that is east of Centreville Road
> and south of West Ox Road" makes sense? It's even
> long commute than Navy. Very efficiency I guess.


I just looked at the new scenarios...scratching my head here. Oak Hill and McNair are in for a surprise then. Parts of the other side of Floris to Oakton while the original portion of Floris goes to SL? That is even longer than Fox Mill to Oakton (I decided to do my homework and drive from Fox Mill to Oakton using the back roads...the commute was NOT bad at all). Holy crap. Get ready for more of the merrygo around circus...now SL community, are you happy with how things are turning out for everyone involved in this RD crap? Why can't the SL community understand how those against the RD feel about being forced to their school when there could be sensible solutions out there just that nobody from fcps had the guts to say hey let's be sensible about it and slow down the RD process. Even Tistdadt said he did not see a compelling reason to do a boundary study. What garbage. Now with one of the scenarios, does anybody know the streets that would divide Fox Mill up? That is a split feeder issue. Oh boy.

More split feeders and more islands. Floris remained to Westfield will become a tiny island and Oak Hill will be two. Because the two are not connected. Does the board need to be reminded the vast land south to Floris elementary are either the airport or an industrial zone? Or Stu and Kathy don't really know their own districts?

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maybe new hawk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > EXTRA! EXTRA! GET YOUR NEW RD MAPS HERE! Don't
> > push, plenty for everyone,sure to displease
> all!
> >
> > Welcome to the split feeder club Oak Hill!
> >
> >
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Pu
>
> > blic?OpenFrameSet
>
>
> I would like to see the rationale for these new
> proposals. The end numbers for students at each
> school are virtually identical to Option 5.
>
> The only difference between the Stu and Kathy
> proposals is that one keeps Fox Mill together (at
> SL) and further splits Floris (to Oakton), while
> the other keeps the second Floris piece together
> (at SL) and splits Fox Mill (Between SL/Oakton).
>
> Both have the same pieces of McNair going to
> Herndon and Oak Hill to Westfield.
>
> It appears as if this is designed simply to upset
> more people, since the end numbers aren't
> significantly affected.
>
> As bad as these new options appear, I have to
> think that S & K wouldn't have proposed this
> unless they had reason to believe it would
> succeed.


Succeed? I think I am going to puke again.

I wonder if this is just a ploy to get more people to embrace the first option?

kathy caters to constituents - oak hill voted against her, navy for her - payback is hell

Achievement Wrote:
> I do need to straighten something out. More than
> 45% of students at South Lakes participate in IB
> (exactly the way kids at Herndon participate in
> AP). (I think the number is higher.) People must
> not confuse the diploma program with the IB
> program. In addition, the IB program was not
> actually "thrust" upon any of the schools. ...
>
---
Some of your fellow South Lakes parents say IB WAS forced upon South Lakes. You can discuss it among yourselves and let us know the result.

In the meantime I fully agree that "People must not confuse the diploma program with the IB program."

As for your claim that "More than 45% of students at South Lakes participate in IB (exactly the way kids at Herndon participate in AP)" we do have some hard data.

Go to:
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Publications/
Click on: "Advanced Programs Participation by school (.xls)
This chart shows that in 2005-2006 (the most recent year for which data are posted) 737 Herndon students took at least one AP exam. 26 students at South Lakes were enrolled in IB and 21 earned the IB Diploma.

The official membership for the two schools that year was 1,490 at South Lakes and 1,770 at Herndon.

But you DID mention "total" IB participation, so I went to the SLHS website:
http://www.fcps.edu/SouthLakesHS/ib_program/results_history.htm
That same year, 05-06, the "Total number of Diploma and Certificate candidates tested" was 201.

Simple math now:
737 of 1770 students at Herndon took at least one AP exam: 42%
201 of 1490 students at South Lakes took at least one IB exam: 13%

Come'on, global citizens need more writing skills, not number nerds.

Quick question in looking at Stu and Kathy's proposed options -

Are these implying that the Coppermine Boundaries are already tentatively drawn up?

It looks to me like they both show a boundary for Coppermine.

I would be curious - as a Floris area resident, I have a far greater concern about elementary schools than high schools - In a worst case of this passing, South Lakes will be a completely different school in 8-10 years when mine get to High School. However, the Floris and McNair boundary is much more pressing as is the desire to not lose Floris as my ES.

Of course, back when I first contacted the board members in October prior to the election and continuing thereafter, I suggested that the Elementary School Boundary should be completed PRIOR to the High School to provide for a more clear view of the overall equation vs. attempting to retro-fit an elementary into a high school map and creating more split feeders.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kathy caters to constituents - oak hill voted
> against her, navy for her - payback is hell

I am at loss of words for what Kathy and Stu are thinking?

Is it like throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall and hoping something will stick?

Or is it creating a smoke screen and at the end saying we came up with all these scenarios and can not get a agreement on any one so lets just scrap this process. By the way we tried our best to form a consensus but folks are just too adamant.

To top it all, there is 100% guarantee of pupil placement for kids who want AP so all this just does not make any sense.

Achievement Wrote:
> ... In fact, I would strongly advocate for splitting
> up the entire Fairfax County public school system
> into maybe three independent systems. It is not a
> good thing that it is the "13th largest school
> district in the country." Split it up ...

Here is something on which we might be able to agree. However, I suspect we would differ sharply on how to divide the three districts.

Some options:
1) Sort of follow the Congressional boundaries. Route 1 Corridor, inside the beltway, and curve up to Reston - The Moran district. Central Fairfax is the Davis District. Southwest is Wolfe.

2) Vertical thirds: east, central, and west.

3) Horizontal thirds: north, central, and south.

Your recommendation?

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=92962&paper=66&cat=104
"The opening of Coppermine is likely to affect the McNair and Hutchinson elementary school boundaries, said School Board members during the meeting. "

I wonder, do we really need to spend all the money to build a new elemenatry NOW? I don't see new constructions, and the current schools are able to accomadate students in existing developments?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 03:06PM by Floris.

Achievement Wrote:
> ... I cannot get involved in an AP/IB
> discussion because there has been far too much
> misinformation about IB that is coloring people's
> opinions. ... many questions can be answered by
> looking at the school staff responses to IB board
> members' questions posted on the work session
> site.
>
---
Misinformation is not the word I would choose. It does seem a bit imbalanced for FCPS to include a sixteen-page booklet published by IB in an FCPS-produced "Advanced Placement And International Baccalaureate Fact Book," yet include nothing from the College Board about AP. Why not include course-by-course, credit-by-credit, and dollar-for-dollar comparisons?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kathy caters to constituents - oak hill voted
> against her, navy for her - payback is hell


I am sure the VARun PTA will welcome the Oak Hill crowd with open arms, as long as they stay off the basketball court and cheer squads

Scenario 2 is Kathy's and Scenario 3 is Stu's.

Floris Parent Wrote:
> What if South Lakes continues to offer the IB
> Programme, and becomes the IB Academy for Western
> Fairfax County. ...
>
> The FCSB could then offer the Rest of the students
> in South Lakes the AP curriculum, ...
>
> I think that FCPS should also conduct a survey of
> all families and students who are currently
> enrolled in South Lakes, and get a "true" opinion
> as to whether the Students prefer IB or AP. ...
>
> I believe that if we could pause this RD until
> next fall, the SB can really take a broader look
> at all of the feedback that has been generated,and
> see what enrollments do for the balance of this
> year. They can save face by saying that it will
> make sense to align the schools at the same time
> that the Alignment for Coppermine ES is done....
>
---------
I pretty much agree with you.

If an "Academy" only has students bused in for some classes but they belong to their base schools for sports, etc, then an "Academy" is not want South Lakes wants, not does it make it easier to get on the cheer squad at Westfield.

If instead South Lakes has a "Magnet" IB programme, where students attend South Lakes full time and become part of the student body, then South Lakes does obtain more "advantaged" students, which I think was the goal.

However, as has been said over and over, within FCPS a high school cannot both IB and a full AP program. For example, even huge Robinson cannot support AP science courses.

I FULLY agree that we should "pause this RD."

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kathy caters to constituents - oak hill voted
> > against her, navy for her - payback is hell
>
> I am at loss of words for what Kathy and Stu are
> thinking?
>
> Is it like throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall
> and hoping something will stick?
>
> Or is it creating a smoke screen and at the end
> saying we came up with all these scenarios and can
> not get a agreement on any one so lets just scrap
> this process. By the way we tried our best to form
> a consensus but folks are just too adamant.
>
> To top it all, there is 100% guarantee of pupil
> placement for kids who want AP so all this just
> does not make any sense.


Right, none of these scenarios work. It is nauseating because there are really p'ssed off parents out there who know best for their kids concerning their education. No one shouldn't be forced to go to an IB high school. The IB program is not inferior just different and NOT for everyone. At least there is word of guarantee for AP placements.

How about a focused IB school? It looks like the board is making room for focused school funding? In 64.02: "Focus Schools Program $1.0 million "

Reduce the expansion of full day kindergarten from $5.7 million to $1.4 million effectively
reducing the number of new full day kindergarten programs being introduced from 21 to 5. U
Resulting in a savings of $4.3 millionU
• Postpone the expansion of the Foreign Language in Elementary School (FLES) in FY 2009
resulting in a Usavings of $2.1 millionU
• Postpone the final implementation of TSSpec's at elementary schools Uresulting in a savings of
$1.5 millionU
• Apply these savings (a total of $7.9 million) towards the following budget items:
o College Partnership Program $.7 million
o Student Transportation Programs $1.7 million
o Test Fees (AP/IB) for $2.5 million
o General Education Instructional Assistants $2.6 million out of a total $3.6 million in to
reductions
o Focus Schools Program $1.0 million o Student Activity Fees $2.7 million
• Total in restored program spending: U$11.2 million

Oakton Parent Wrote:
> ... Heading where Marshall is
> now? WTF are you talking about? Name the top
> schools in FCPS. TJ? Special case, admittedly.
> Langley? Hard to argue with. The list gets less
> clear, but prolly Oakton, McLean, Madison, Lake
> Braddock, then maybe Marshall and West
> Springfield. ...
>
-------------
30 Sep 2007:
Marshall: 1325 students
South Lakes: 1443 students

So South Lakes wants FEWER students?

Top schools, not counting Jefferson? There are lots of measurements but SAT scores are the most common. The five highest combined 2007 SATs were:
LANGLEY 1792
MCLEAN 1751
WOODSON 1710
OAKTON 1680
MADISON 1679

MARSHALL was 1644 and SOUTH LAKES 1596.

Herndon HS families believe things are pretty good there - they have a nice balance in their school, folks are generally happy, and they have strongly argued that they should be kept out of this as much as possible.

Oakton HS families are equally happy, have a nice balance at their school and were only included in the study (per DT) to provide flexibility for relieving overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfields (as opposed to relieving them of students to help populate SL).

In 2 of the 3 scemnarios on the table, HHS gets some extra students, but remains under capacity. Not very probelmeatic, but to what advantage?

In all 3 of the scenarios Oakton, the Oakton population suffers.

While I believe that perhaps this RD is premature, I would like to take the direction Kathy and Stu are heading and go one step further (which at least seems more logical).

1. Leave Herndon alone and leave Oakton alone
2. All of Floris + Coppermine + McNair (WHS part) from WHS ot SL
3. Oak Hill from CHS to WHS
4. Depending on the numbers, Madison Island move

This elimated the creation of any more split feeders for elemnatary schools, does not "bastardize" the OHS population, provides the primary relief to WHS and CHS (not OHS) - seems to be most consistent with needs.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a focused IB school? It looks like the
> board is making room for focused school funding?
> In 64.02: "Focus Schools Program $1.0 million "
>
> Reduce the expansion of full day kindergarten from
> $5.7 million to $1.4 million effectively
> reducing the number of new full day kindergarten
> programs being introduced from 21 to 5. U
> Resulting in a savings of $4.3 millionU
> • Postpone the expansion of the Foreign Language
> in Elementary School (FLES) in FY 2009
> resulting in a Usavings of $2.1 millionU
> • Postpone the final implementation of TSSpec's at
> elementary schools Uresulting in a savings of
> $1.5 millionU
> • Apply these savings (a total of $7.9 million)
> towards the following budget items:
> o College Partnership Program $.7 million
> o Student Transportation Programs $1.7 million
> o Test Fees (AP/IB) for $2.5 million
> o General Education Instructional Assistants $2.6
> million out of a total $3.6 million in to
> reductions
> o Focus Schools Program $1.0 million o Student
> Activity Fees $2.7 million
> • Total in restored program spending: U$11.2
> million

The Focus programs addressed here deal with ES's, and are specific to the school. I don't know the number of schools that utilized Focus grants, but am guessing 20? Sleepy Hollow used theirs to create a schedule so that all Language Arts were taught at the same time, to create groupings based on need. Other schools used these grants for other items.

At the HS level Focus programs were (primarily) used to assist students with passing end of course SOL exams. And again the monies were distributed to a number of HS's.

Focus grants are not applicable to the IB program.

This is ridiculous and the Budget is obscene. I looked at the full day kindergartern roll-out list and object to paying for it. Perhaps this whole boundary scheme is a way to get rid of transportation expenses.

Focus Schools staff include a "garden" or "out door environment" type teacher, elementary drama teachers , one Young Scholars program stated it was learning to use the dictionary. What is done in language arts that they need a separate teacher for that? Modified Calendar? That's up for a vote to get the waiver from the State this Thursday - what a waste of money.

They are spending money like a teenage girl in a mall. Yeah- we also have Classroom on the Mall and Fashion Marketing as actual courses in this County. I think they all ready know enough about the mall.

What is left is massive complaining about any tax rate increase and that includes the South County Middle School.

The Leadership Team gets about a 6 % increase for over 2 million plus has 100% paid for benefits.

There was a "meeting" where elementary schools were discussed. It has been posted two weeks ago, so you need to dig it. The boundaries are based on Coppermine, so yes, these new scenarios take into consideration the elementary school boundaries....if that make sense to you.



Future Seahawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quick question in looking at Stu and Kathy's
> proposed options -
>
> Are these implying that the Coppermine Boundaries
> are already tentatively drawn up?
>
> It looks to me like they both show a boundary for
> Coppermine.
>
> I would be curious - as a Floris area resident, I
> have a far greater concern about elementary
> schools than high schools - In a worst case of
> this passing, South Lakes will be a completely
> different school in 8-10 years when mine get to
> High School. However, the Floris and McNair
> boundary is much more pressing as is the desire to
> not lose Floris as my ES.
>
> Of course, back when I first contacted the board
> members in October prior to the election and
> continuing thereafter, I suggested that the
> Elementary School Boundary should be completed
> PRIOR to the High School to provide for a more
> clear view of the overall equation vs. attempting
> to retro-fit an elementary into a high school map
> and creating more split feeders.

I really really don't like the Kathy 11b. It splits up everyone in the school. I am upset that Fox Mill is being split. I don't care if we go to south lakes or oakton or westfield. But keep us together. I think if Floris said don't split us but we don't care where we go, they might have been able to stay together for Westfield or even south lakes. But they said no to South Lakes so now they might be split. I think about it and I think I would rather also not drive all the way to Oakton. I do everything in Fox Mill Shopping center or in Reston or in Herndon. So why drive so far? And my little ones have friends who go to Hunters Woods, so we know families who will go to South Lakes.

I wish I had time to think about this more. I have to talk to my friends.

RDVictim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't understand? How does "assign to Oakton High
> School from Westfield that portion of the Floris
> attendance area that is east of Centreville Road
> and south of West Ox Road" makes sense? It's even
> long commute than Navy. Very efficiency I guess.

Did you look at the maps? They're a bit farther than the Navy area was from Oakton. But they're not right next to Chantilly HS like Navy is. I can see it as a logical swap.

,, Wrote:
> ... Put this RD proposal on hold. This spring form
> a
> > parent-student-staff committee, like the one
> > Woodson had, to consider IB and AP in depth.
> > Include a proportionate number of Floris and
> Fox
> > Mill members.
> >
> > If the decision is to revert to AP, allow the
> next
> > two years to grandfather the current IB
> students
> > while SL rebuilds its AP program.
> >
> > And THEN talk about redistricting.
>
>
> why Fox Mill and Floris? SLHS asked that they
> stay away. An offer that the majority will gladly
> accept. Maybe the astronauts would be a better
> audience? Maybe South Lakes could make amends by
> inviting some from McNair?

Point taken. [Unlike some posters on this forum I am willing to grant to others their valid points.]

How about this revision: Whatever communities MIGHT be moved into South Lakes get to be on the AP/IB Selection Committee, and any community that disagrees with the outcome may opt out of any subsequent RD.

What need to be done to push it to IB or to SLHS?

"Focus grants are not applicable to the IB program."

I drove around the McNair community this afternoon and I am very happy now. I found that those kids who will be sent to our Herndon HS are from high end houses and townhouses. They are from rich families, that's for sure. No complaint now. I will sleep with ease tonight.
I apologize I complained too much this morning. The addition of that part of McNair will only help to raise Herndon HS's testing score.
I am proud to be a Herndon HS Dad. No title I please. Gibson and Smith must have heard my prayer last night. Hehehehehehe.
You know what I feel about all these? Westfield will end up lose the most. All good kids from Floris are pulled out and shipped to SLHS. Title I kids are left to Westfield HS. Funny thing is, they are being screwed big time and did not realize it and never complained about it.
School board bullying is good to Herndon HS. Keep bullying and send more good kids to us. Hehehehehe.

HerndonHSDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I drove around the McNair community this afternoon
> and I am very happy now. I found that those kids
> who will be sent to our Herndon HS are from high
> end houses and townhouses. They are from rich
> families, that's for sure. No complaint now. I
> will sleep with ease tonight.
> I apologize I complained too much this morning.
> The addition of that part of McNair will only help
> to raise Herndon HS's testing score.
> I am proud to be a Herndon HS Dad. No title I
> please. Gibson and Smith must have heard my prayer
> last night. Hehehehehehe.
> You know what I feel about all these? Westfield
> will end up lose the most. All good kids from
> Floris are pulled out and shipped to SLHS. Title I
> kids are left to Westfield HS. Funny thing is,
> they are being screwed big time and did not
> realize it and never complained about it.
> School board bullying is good to Herndon HS. Keep
> bullying and send more good kids to us.
> Hehehehehe.


What? Another SL style of wishing for more "good" kids? It is not fair to those being screwed up for being in positive situations with their schools only to get screwed up by the RD.

FoxMillUnited Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really really don't like the Kathy 11b. It
> splits up everyone in the school. I am upset that
> Fox Mill is being split. I don't care if we go to
> south lakes or oakton or westfield. But keep us
> together. I think if Floris said don't split us
> but we don't care where we go, they might have
> been able to stay together for Westfield or even
> south lakes. But they said no to South Lakes so
> now they might be split. I think about it and I
> think I would rather also not drive all the way to
> Oakton. I do everything in Fox Mill Shopping
> center or in Reston or in Herndon. So why drive so
> far? And my little ones have friends who go to
> Hunters Woods, so we know families who will go to
> South Lakes.
>
> I wish I had time to think about this more. I have
> to talk to my friends.


You Fox Mill people deserve to be split up. You have a smart lady Erika used our Reston residents signature to come up a 500 signature petition and showed that to the school board during the public hearing. SB must be hearing and agreed with her. Now, you are split up. I guess after all, you Fox Mill people are not that smart anyway. Please take care of your house before coming to SLHS. We don't want your kids. Our kids are much smarter than yours. At least SLHS never be divided.
Fox Mill and Floris parents, you deserve it. That what the world does to nerds.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> ... Since this started, I became aware of how much
> more writing my kids do than other schools ...
>
> ... The direct comparion should be between taking AP
> classes and IB classe, which in my mind are
> equivalent.
----------
It sounds like writing should be emphasized more in all schools; I don't think anyone has argued against it.

As for a direct comparison of all AP and IB courses, as I wrote earlier, "If AP and IB are close to equal, then get rid of the far more expensive IB. Did you hear that speech on costs? If I copied this down right, the two programs cost the same but:
- Less than 30% of high school students are in IB schools and over 70% are in AP schools.
- IB costs 5 times as much as AP in terms of exams taken.
- IB costs 6 times as much as AP in terms of numbers of students who take at least one IB or AP exam.
- Over the last 5 years, AP has grown 4 times as fast as IB."

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillUnited Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really really don't like the Kathy 11b. It
> > splits up everyone in the school. I am upset
> that
> > Fox Mill is being split. I don't care if we go
> to
> > south lakes or oakton or westfield. But keep us
> > together. I think if Floris said don't split us
> > but we don't care where we go, they might have
> > been able to stay together for Westfield or
> even
> > south lakes. But they said no to South Lakes so
> > now they might be split. I think about it and I
> > think I would rather also not drive all the way
> to
> > Oakton. I do everything in Fox Mill Shopping
> > center or in Reston or in Herndon. So why drive
> so
> > far? And my little ones have friends who go to
> > Hunters Woods, so we know families who will go
> to
> > South Lakes.
> >
> > I wish I had time to think about this more. I
> have
> > to talk to my friends.
>
>
> You Fox Mill people deserve to be split up. You
> have a smart lady Erika used our Reston residents
> signature to come up a 500 signature petition and
> showed that to the school board during the public
> hearing. SB must be hearing and agreed with her.
> Now, you are split up. I guess after all, you Fox
> Mill people are not that smart anyway. Please take
> care of your house before coming to SLHS. We don't
> want your kids. Our kids are much smarter than
> yours. At least SLHS never be divided.
> Fox Mill and Floris parents, you deserve it. That
> what the world does to nerds.


Erika used "Reston residents" signatures to get the 500 signatures and sent the petition to the SB even though she is from Fox Mill? She did not get those 500 signatures directly from Fox Mill? Please clarify.

CONFUSED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Herndon HS families believe things are pretty good
> there - they have a nice balance in their school,
> folks are generally happy, and they have strongly
> argued that they should be kept out of this as
> much as possible.
>
> Oakton HS families are equally happy, have a nice
> balance at their school and were only included in
> the study (per DT) to provide flexibility for
> relieving overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfields
> (as opposed to relieving them of students to help
> populate SL).
>
> In 2 of the 3 scemnarios on the table, HHS gets
> some extra students, but remains under capacity.
> Not very probelmeatic, but to what advantage?
>
> In all 3 of the scenarios Oakton, the Oakton
> population suffers.
>
> While I believe that perhaps this RD is premature,
> I would like to take the direction Kathy and Stu
> are heading and go one step further (which at
> least seems more logical).
>
> 1. Leave Herndon alone and leave Oakton alone
> 2. All of Floris + Coppermine + McNair (WHS part)
> from WHS ot SL
> 3. Oak Hill from CHS to WHS
> 4. Depending on the numbers, Madison Island move
>
> This elimated the creation of any more split
> feeders for elemnatary schools, does not
> "bastardize" the OHS population, provides the
> primary relief to WHS and CHS (not OHS) - seems to
> be most consistent with needs.


No wonder your name is CONFUSED. Please shut yourself if you are from Herndon HS. SB is doing us a big favor by sending good kids from McNair and left the Title I kids to Westfield. I drove around there this afternoon and those are 800k houses. More expensive than most of the houses in Herndon HS proximity. Please keep quiet. We want those McNair kids. They will make our scores higher and we will all be happier. Do me a favor, shut yourself up if you are from Herndon HS. You don't want people to steal your gold, don't you? Those McNair kids are golds.

ParentOf4 Wrote:
> ... you would not want the county to say that
> you must now send your children to DC public
> schools because they are underenrolled, correct?

Excellent analogy.

Baffled

have a look at the list as included in the minutes of the public hearing and cross check the names with various open sources

you'll see nearly all are either reston (mostly SLHS kids, alums or parents) or Herndon (chuck-madison-under-the-bus) - only a smattering of people who'd actually be impacted

stunning - but no more of a scam than the rest of the process

gotta admire her cheek though

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHSParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FoxMillUnited Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I really really don't like the Kathy 11b. It
> > > splits up everyone in the school. I am upset
> > that
> > > Fox Mill is being split. I don't care if we
> go
> > to
> > > south lakes or oakton or westfield. But keep
> us
> > > together. I think if Floris said don't split
> us
> > > but we don't care where we go, they might
> have
> > > been able to stay together for Westfield or
> > even
> > > south lakes. But they said no to South Lakes
> so
> > > now they might be split. I think about it and
> I
> > > think I would rather also not drive all the
> way
> > to
> > > Oakton. I do everything in Fox Mill Shopping
> > > center or in Reston or in Herndon. So why
> drive
> > so
> > > far? And my little ones have friends who go
> to
> > > Hunters Woods, so we know families who will
> go
> > to
> > > South Lakes.
> > >
> > > I wish I had time to think about this more. I
> > have
> > > to talk to my friends.
> >
> >
> > You Fox Mill people deserve to be split up. You
> > have a smart lady Erika used our Reston
> residents
> > signature to come up a 500 signature petition
> and
> > showed that to the school board during the
> public
> > hearing. SB must be hearing and agreed with
> her.
> > Now, you are split up. I guess after all, you
> Fox
> > Mill people are not that smart anyway. Please
> take
> > care of your house before coming to SLHS. We
> don't
> > want your kids. Our kids are much smarter than
> > yours. At least SLHS never be divided.
> > Fox Mill and Floris parents, you deserve it.
> That
> > what the world does to nerds.
>
>
> Erika used "Reston residents" signatures to get
> the 500 signatures and sent the petition to the SB
> even though she is from Fox Mill? She did not get
> those 500 signatures directly from Fox Mill?
> Please clarify.

You are right on the target. She did not require home addresses when people signing up for the petition. Only email addresses are needed. And some fairfaxCAPS' folks investigated and found that, most of those signatures are from people living in SLHS district. They found a lot of those petition names from Reston's address book. And SB is buying into it. As SLHS parent,I am not proud of what those people did. They brought negative image to SLHS. Do you know what those nerds in Fox Mill and Floris called us after they found this out? They called us liers and they said we were so desperate that, we lied about our identities.
Shame on Erica who caused negative image to SLHS.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Erika used "Reston residents" signatures to get
> the 500 signatures and sent the petition to the SB
> even though she is from Fox Mill? She did not get
> those 500 signatures directly from Fox Mill?
> Please clarify.

I said this about 1 1/2 months ago prior to the 12/19 meeting. Floris submitted over 5 hundred ACTUAL signatures on paper forms from the subdivisions in the area attached to the letter that had since been posted on the FCPS site. This letter was hand delivered to the school board on 12/20.

The 500 signatures that Ms. Castro (and StopRD for that matter) are merely email addresses on a website that can be from people anywhere.

In this computer age, it still takes more and means more when people are willing to come out from behind their computers and anonymity and put their name and address on a piece of paper as the Floris families did.

And the school board choose to ignore Floris.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > ... Since this started, I became aware of how
> much
> > more writing my kids do than other schools ...
> >
> > ... The direct comparion should be between
> taking AP
> > classes and IB classe, which in my mind are
> > equivalent.
> ----------
> It sounds like writing should be emphasized more
> in all schools; I don't think anyone has argued
> against it.
>
> As for a direct comparison of all AP and IB
> courses, as I wrote earlier, "If AP and IB are
> close to equal, then get rid of the far more
> expensive IB. Did you hear that speech on costs?
> If I copied this down right, the two programs cost
> the same but:
> - Less than 30% of high school students are in IB
> schools and over 70% are in AP schools.
> - IB costs 5 times as much as AP in terms of exams
> taken.
> - IB costs 6 times as much as AP in terms of
> numbers of students who take at least one IB or AP
> exam.
> - Over the last 5 years, AP has grown 4 times as
> fast as IB."



I agree that writing should be emphasized in all schools. But the IB program has the advantage that it enforces this.

Perhaps the cost of IB will go down as more kids take the exams, which is happening. It could be just a matter of momentum. As I said, we should consider AP, but you APers should also really consider IB.

Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors courses are being eliminated at AP schools?

Forum Reader, remember when you compare tests taken that many two-year IB courses only have one test given, so the number of IB tests taken will never come close to equaling the number of AP tests given. That also explains why IB schools are at a disadvantage on the Challenge Index, since it is based on the number of tests given. I would argue, and have with Jay Mathews, that HL IB tests should be given double credit, since they include an oral and a written portion, and since they cover two years of coursework.

South Lakes Pyramid parent,
Bottom line is IB should not be forced to anyone, which bring back the topics on an IB focused school. It'll increase the number of IB students, and hopefully IB classes, and there'll be less contension for classes/resources.

Maybe this is a good time to make a loud voice and make the school board realize they can actually create a win-win solution?

SLHS Parent, methinks you are an imposter.

Looks like things aren't looking so good for those of us against redistricting.

http://www.qwizx.com/gssfx/usa/tpirhorns.wav

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent,
> Bottom line is IB should not be forced to anyone,
> which bring back the topics on an IB focused
> school. It'll increase the number of IB students,
> and hopefully IB classes, and there'll be less
> contension for classes/resources.
>
> Maybe this is a good time to make a loud voice and
> make the school board realize they can actually
> create a win-win solution?


Didn't I say I would be open to a vote?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ParentOf4 Wrote:
> > ... you would not want the county to say that
> > you must now send your children to DC public
> > schools because they are underenrolled,
> correct?
>
> Excellent analogy.

How is this an excellent analogy. It is an impossibility.

W/C/O/H Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Parent, methinks you are an imposter.


Give me your address and I will be in your front door within half an hour to show you my address and prove to you that I belong to SLHS. I live around Lake Fairfax for 10+ years now and I am a die hard SLHS fan.

SLPP asks:

"Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors courses are being eliminated at AP schools?"

That doesn't seem to be the case at Oakton. Honors classes are presently offered consistent with previous years.

SLHSParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> W/C/O/H Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLHS Parent, methinks you are an imposter.
>
>
> Give me your address and I will be in your front
> door within half an hour to show you my address
> and prove to you that I belong to SLHS. I live
> around Lake Fairfax for 10+ years now and I am a
> die hard SLHS fan.


Looks like W/C/O/H Parent just got called out! SNAP!!!

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP asks:
>
> "Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors courses
> are being eliminated at AP schools?"
>
> That doesn't seem to be the case at Oakton.
> Honors classes are presently offered consistent
> with previous years.



Well, I've been hearing that complaint. Does anyone know anything about this?

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ParentOf4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Maybe not inner city, but the forced move
> carries
> > the same weight to many families in these
> > communities. Why not figure out what the
> problems
> > are in your school first, then fix them, then
> > invite people to come and learn there.
> Remember,
> > we bought our homes outside of Reston because
> we
> > did not buy into the whole planned community
> > thing, why should we be forced to make up for
> > those who bought there, then decided they wanted
> a
> > different school for their child?
>
>
> We know what the problem is--numbers. It's a
> numbers game, period. There is no exodus. That's
> been proven false, and goes against what we in SL
> see.
>
> If everyone wants to reconsider the AP/IB issue,
> fine. But there are no inherent problems with IB.
> It's not an inferior program.
>
> It's the numbers, stupid.


OK, and how come your numbers keep leaving?

I know you don't want to hear the "aging in place" argument. Just because you don't want to hear it, doesn't mean it's not true. If you lived here, you would know it to be true, when you see all the empty nesters around. They simply don't want to leave.

Add to this the fact that new development is of the variety that does not attract families. And we have more townhouses--where people with small kids live, who often move up and out by the time their kids are in high school. Add to this all the districting away from SL that past SB's have done, we've needed more kids for awhile.

Also,the McKibben report shows that Westfield and Oakton have many more younger families, many fewer empty nesters than South Reston. Don't have the numbers here, you can check the board docs--Staff's response to the "exodus".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2008 05:16PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

SLPP and Oakton Parent -

Thank you both for raising this issue (and it is nice to see you are both communicating from facts!). There is currently some confusion in course titles for certain classes - some are now called "Pre-AP" and some "honors". there is no planned change in course offerings, but will likely be some changes in what the course is called. Having two different names for the same level of classes has created some unnecessary confusion, but hopefully this clears it up. SLPP - I appreciate your raising this (I was confused when I heard it and contacted the school to see what is happening).


South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLPP asks:
> >
> > "Is it true that 9th and 10th grade honors
> courses
> > are being eliminated at AP schools?"
> >
> > That doesn't seem to be the case at Oakton.
> > Honors classes are presently offered consistent
> > with previous years.
>
>
>
> Well, I've been hearing that complaint. Does
> anyone know anything about this?

I agree that Erika Castro's list was a big fat fakie. I recognized several names of parents from Hunters Woods and Langston Hughes that live within the SHLS boundary. I am really wondering what motivates Erika and Caroline -- anybody?? And I also agree that there seems to be some sort of issue with the HWES-based parents once the kiddies get to high school. It very well could be the competition with other schools. Or they are trying to recreate the good times at Hunters Woods where they have the GT kids adding to the school environment.
It's perplexing at best.

I am perplexed by the constant barrage of "morality" slurs hurled at the anti-RD crowd when the actions of some on the other side are immoral IMHO.