Can someone fill me in - did I correctly hear that Tina Hone compared her vote against RD to having the courage to oppose torture?


quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> skeptic - it is as if you are wilfully being
> intransigent to embrace fatalism. Yes, there are
> social problems in the affected communities - and
> the schools would be far better off to realize
> that they cannot fix most of them - thank you out
> of wedlock births and great society programs that
> discourage accountability - but what the schools
> can do is give an intense education with a keen
> focus on the fundamentals. And this needs to be
> done in the elementary grades - struggling kids
> with very few exceptions either get it done early
> on (3rd grade is a huge year) or they are in
> trouble for some time to come. This is why I have
> a problem with Herrstein, Murray, et al and others
> who focus on IQ differences - the public schools
> must take the kids as they come - and frankly, a
> rising tide lifts all boats - if there is the
> political will to raise the tide.
>
> And Neen is right - it makes no sense why the
> challenging schools in Reston perform worse than
> the schools in Richmond or Norfolk. Virtually
> none of the serious negatives that one sees in
> those cities is present in Reston - and yet scores
> really suffer. In response, let's make clear that
> this has not come about through lack of effort -
> there are good teachers in these schools that are
> making saintly efforts - but the whole notion of
> teaching what makes kids feel good as opposed to
> teaching hardened skills that will hardwire them
> for future challenges has just gone too far. And
> teaching hardwired skills is tough - because that
> means social promotion of all kinds stops - and
> that kind of activity receives all sorts of
> complaints about discrimination - but it is so
> necessary to do.

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to point out that there is a big
> range of ability in the GT classes. A number of
> children struggle with math, while others pretty
> much snooze through while they wait for Algebra to
> happen in 7th grade.
>
> As for who is easier to teach, you should survey
> the teachers. I should think a GT class of 30
> fourth graders is a bit harder to teach than a
> regular class of 24 fourth graders, but that's
> just me.

Still, a GT class is relatively homogeneous, as all children have a high IQ. Inner-city Richmond students are at the other end of the spectrum (poor, black, uneducated parents, welfare state products) yet they are similar, so also relatively homogeneous.

Now look at a Reston grade-school class (many races and cultures, the entire range of income levels - from wealthy to welfare, many levels of intelligence, many levels of environmental support - and I would still bet it's easier to teach either at the upper or lower range but not a thoroughly mixed class.

race to class Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seems like the online edition of the post
> article
> > says,
> >
> > Class was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> >
> > But my printed edition says
> >
> > Race was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> >
> > Change from Race to Class. hmm. Interesting !!
> >
> > Stu saying Floris and FM parents are racist.
>
>
> Ms. Chandler misquoted Stu Gibson. Too late to
> correct the printed edition. Call the Post if you
> don't believe me.

For further proof, listen to the MP3 of Gibson's testimony, where never once did he mention race. He spoke about socio-economics and English language proficiency.

And yes, Tina Hone (who is part black, you know) compared RD with torture, and when Mr. Moon tried to call her on it, she rudely cut him off and backtracked on her statement.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps they just used their sippy-cup map to draw
> the circle, and realizing that though just as
> close, bringing in Crossfield would leave Fox Mill
> as an island; so they chose the most logical
> route. More than one group could have come up
> with this scenario. Actually, Franklin Farm's
> advocacy group developed the exact same scenario
> that SL did. It's not that hard to imagine. If
> both of those groups could do it, it is not hard
> to take the leap that SB staff did the same.

Yeah, ok. Keep telling yourself that. Trouble is, if logic was used to define the new map, it would have been considerably different from what they ended up with. Can you say Langley? SL probably would have loved to have some of them, but those same Langley people, and therefore Stu Gibson, would have no parts of it. Can you say McNair Farms? They are closer to SL than the Floris area they are now forcing to SL. Trouble is, SL didn't want any part of McNair Farms. Langley is too rich (therefore too powerful) to forcibly move. Gibson has a not so subtle soft spot for SL. So what's left? Floris and Fox Mill. Done deal.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps they just used their sippy-cup map to
> draw
> > the circle, and realizing that though just as
> > close, bringing in Crossfield would leave Fox
> Mill
> > as an island; so they chose the most logical
> > route. More than one group could have come up
> > with this scenario. Actually, Franklin Farm's
> > advocacy group developed the exact same
> scenario
> > that SL did. It's not that hard to imagine.
> If
> > both of those groups could do it, it is not
> hard
> > to take the leap that SB staff did the same.
>
> Yeah, ok. Keep telling yourself that. Trouble
> is, if logic was used to define the new map, it
> would have been considerably different from what
> they ended up with. Can you say Langley? SL
> probably would have loved to have some of them,
> but those same Langley people, and therefore Stu
> Gibson, would have no parts of it. Can you say
> McNair Farms? They are closer to SL than the
> Floris area they are now forcing to SL. Trouble
> is, SL didn't want any part of McNair Farms.
> Langley is too rich (therefore too powerful) to
> forcibly move. Gibson has a not so subtle soft
> spot for SL. So what's left? Floris and Fox Mill.
> Done deal.


MIT Grad Too also wants to ignore the fact that in the second town hall meeting, a lot of SL kids went on saying option 5 option 5 etc. They had all the material needed for this option in their hand.

The bottom line is there was a dirty nexus between SL PTSA and Stu Gibson in propogating this option. SL PTSA also had this option 5-10 days before it was announced. Stu has used SL PTSA and Fox Mill PTSA president to drive his agenda. Stu has refused to meet with anyone from Floris and never returned emails (which were civil).

We will never forget this.

Look at a map and you will see that Langley is outside of the sippy-cup circle, though they do fall within Herndon's circle. The residential parts of McNair also fall outside of the SL circle, as they are on the other side of major commercial development, and within Herndon's sippy-cup circle. However, residential parts of Floris do fall within the SL circle. Proximity should count, and it should have counted with Navy. I am sorry that they were moved.

It doesn't really matter, though, as the decision was rendered and you will not win in trying to prove that SL had any influence on the SB beyond what opponents also had. We were all allowed to participate and speak publicly, and I note that SL speakers were outnumbered at each and every public hearing, yet their arguments seemed to carry more weight with the SB; consider that perhaps because they had more merit.

Why not stop all the Monday-morning quarterbacking, either pupil place your child, move, or actually give SL a try and become one of its advocates. Advocate for the curriculum you want. You will be more than welcome at South Lakes, especially if you become an active participant.

Or you can continue to vent here, if it makes you feel better.

Can you please tell us which SL circle you are talking about?

I am surprised Floris falls within your circle but McNair doesn't? Which circle is this?

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mon wrote:
>
> "On the subject of outperforming... I clearly
> remember Jane Strauss making a comment last
> thursday in regards to the number of graduating
> seniors at South Lakes last year having a 4.0 or
> greater GPA... something like 35 (I can't remember
> the exact number) She said that was more than any
> other high schools in this area, including Oakton
> and Langley. And South lakes had the highest
> percentage of students accepted to UVA.
>
> Also, I remember seeing an article somewhere this
> year about South Lakes having the greatest
> improvement in some or another scores... SAT
> maybe. Really very sorry I didn't pay any more
> attention to that at the time. I can try to look
> it up tonight, but I've had enough. I'm off to
> bed. "
>
>
> If that was the case, then WHY the need to
> redistrict and disrupt these families? I am
> sorry, but your posts sound alot like SLverity's.


Because there are 700-800 empty seats in the school. That's one THIRD of our school. Factor in the high percentage of ESOL and the 300 or so students in the MMR Center, we are left with something like 900 general ed kids. That makes an already difficult situation even harder. This redistricting should almost double our students opportunities.

If people were getting redistricted to Langley, would we be talking about this? Even if Langley was an IB school?

What if it was your current school that was having SLHS's issues?

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:

> Why not stop all the Monday-morning
> quarterbacking, either pupil place your child,
> move, or actually give SL a try and become one of
> its advocates. Advocate for the curriculum you
> want. You will be more than welcome at South
> Lakes, especially if you become an active
> participant.
>
Oh !!

We will pupil place for sure. No question about that?

And ask yourself why Bruce Butler insists on speaking with parent of each child before he forwards the pupil placement request? If you are so open to pupil placing out, don't put barriers ahead of us and delay this process.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SBS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Perhaps they just used their sippy-cup map to
> > draw
> > > the circle, and realizing that though just as
> > > close, bringing in Crossfield would leave Fox
> > Mill
> > > as an island; so they chose the most logical
> > > route. More than one group could have come
> up
> > > with this scenario. Actually, Franklin
> Farm's
> > > advocacy group developed the exact same
> > scenario
> > > that SL did. It's not that hard to imagine.
> > If
> > > both of those groups could do it, it is not
> > hard
> > > to take the leap that SB staff did the same.
> >
> > Yeah, ok. Keep telling yourself that. Trouble
> > is, if logic was used to define the new map, it
> > would have been considerably different from
> what
> > they ended up with. Can you say Langley? SL
> > probably would have loved to have some of them,
> > but those same Langley people, and therefore
> Stu
> > Gibson, would have no parts of it. Can you say
> > McNair Farms? They are closer to SL than the
> > Floris area they are now forcing to SL.
> Trouble
> > is, SL didn't want any part of McNair Farms.
> > Langley is too rich (therefore too powerful) to
> > forcibly move. Gibson has a not so subtle soft
> > spot for SL. So what's left? Floris and Fox
> Mill.
> > Done deal.
>
>
> MIT Grad Too also wants to ignore the fact that in
> the second town hall meeting, a lot of SL kids
> went on saying option 5 option 5 etc. They had
> all the material needed for this option in their
> hand.
>
> The bottom line is there was a dirty nexus between
> SL PTSA and Stu Gibson in propogating this option.
> SL PTSA also had this option 5-10 days before it
> was announced. Stu has used SL PTSA and Fox Mill
> PTSA president to drive his agenda. Stu has
> refused to meet with anyone from Floris and never
> returned emails (which were civil).
>
> We will never forget this.


I was just thinking how ridiculous the new SL district would look like on the map with the Floris area as the end bump. The new Oak Hill HS should have been built as it was on the CIP in the out years. This would have solved a lot of problems and having the other communities such as McNair going to Herndon and Herndon giving up Aldrin to SL with the western portions of Langley going to Herndon. Injustice in this process will remain unforgotten for the years to come.

pupil_place_for_me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> Oh !!
>
> We will pupil place for sure. No question about
> that?
>
> And ask yourself why Bruce Butler insists on
> speaking with parent of each child before he
> forwards the pupil placement request? If you are
> so open to pupil placing out, don't put barriers
> ahead of us and delay this process.

I would guess he is feeling the majority of folks requesting pupil placement felt they weren't truly heard throughout this whole process, and thus he is essentially allowing them to have their voice heard.

I would imagine he will utilize that information in a useful manner. He can't keep the form nor talk you out of it. He will meet, hear what you have to say, and forward the form to the receiving school.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look at a map and you will see that Langley is
> outside of the sippy-cup circle, though they do
> fall within Herndon's circle. The residential
> parts of McNair also fall outside of the SL
> circle, as they are on the other side of major
> commercial development, and within Herndon's
> sippy-cup circle. However, residential parts of
> Floris do fall within the SL circle. Proximity
> should count, and it should have counted with
> Navy. I am sorry that they were moved.

Since when did circular shapes become one of FCPS's redistricting criteria?

>
> It doesn't really matter, though, as the decision
> was rendered and you will not win in trying to
> prove that SL had any influence on the SB beyond
> what opponents also had. We were all allowed to
> participate and speak publicly, and I note that SL
> speakers were outnumbered at each and every public
> hearing, yet their arguments seemed to carry more
> weight with the SB; consider that perhaps because
> they had more merit.
>
Not trying to win anything, just stating fact. The participating and public speaking you refer to was a farce. Arguing that South Lakes' arguments carried more weight is simply ridiculous when the outcome was predetermined. It is also comical considering that the most prevalent theme from the SL speakers was simply how great the school was. It's funny how one of SL's gripes is lack of choice supposedly caused by low student enrollment. Noone, including the SB, has actually shown any factual evidence of this, nor have they shown how increasing enrollment would solve this alledged problem.

> Why not stop all the Monday-morning
> quarterbacking, either pupil place your child,
> move, or actually give SL a try and become one of
> its advocates. Advocate for the curriculum you
> want. You will be more than welcome at South
> Lakes, especially if you become an active
> participant.
>
Thanks for the advice.

> Or you can continue to vent here, if it makes you
> feel better.

So, why are you here exactly?

Wow, now Bruce is part of the cabal? He is merely sounding parents out on why they wish to pupil place. It's called feed-back and can give him information that he can use to improve the school further. Also, it is the friendly and civil thing to do. His meetings and tours have also resulted in parents and students changing their minds and deciding to remain at South Lakes. I applaud him for his efforts.

Equate the interviews to actually discussing the merits and demerits of abortion with a woman before she decides to go through with it. Sometimes minds are changed and sometimes it is for the better.

Thanks, MIT GRAD, Too. Comparing RD to torture seems beyond the pale. I can't imagine this kind of behavior meets the expectations the Fairfax County electorate has for its public servants. This whole debate seems out of proportion - for example, if Fox Mill is 3 miles away from the South Lakes school, isn't that a no-brainer? Also, why is everyone villifying Gibson when he was only 1/10 of the vote in favor of RD? All the votes count the same.


MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> race to class Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > leave_us_alone Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Seems like the online edition of the post
> > article
> > > says,
> > >
> > > Class was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> > >
> > > But my printed edition says
> > >
> > > Race was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> > >
> > > Change from Race to Class. hmm. Interesting
> !!
> > >
> > > Stu saying Floris and FM parents are racist.
> >
> >
> > Ms. Chandler misquoted Stu Gibson. Too late to
> > correct the printed edition. Call the Post if
> you
> > don't believe me.
>
> For further proof, listen to the MP3 of Gibson's
> testimony, where never once did he mention race.
> He spoke about socio-economics and English
> language proficiency.
>
> And yes, Tina Hone (who is part black, you know)
> compared RD with torture, and when Mr. Moon tried
> to call her on it, she rudely cut him off and
> backtracked on her statement.

c'mom Wrote:


> If people were getting redistricted to Langley,
> would we be talking about this? Even if Langley
> was an IB school?
>
> What if it was your current school that was having
> SLHS's issues?

Yes we would have objected to any High School (Langley included) if it was an IB only school? Please get this fact in your head !!

Even though the SB trivializes the IB/AP issue, we don't. I want my son to have a life outside school and not be totally involved with IB DIPLOMA (notice DIPLOMA) program. He is on travel soccer team and I don't want to take it away from him.

Why is this fact so difficult to understand?

To correct untruths and misperceptions posted here, and to expose negative agendas of some, including Neen and Forum Reader.

The map was developed by a SL parent (not the PTSA), without the input or counsel of Stu. Believe it or not, there are actually thinking and intelligent parents in the SL community.

You are correct, I should follow my own advice and sign out now, and you can be left to wallow in the above, if you choose, or you can get on with your lives as best you can.

I am sure that everyone will move on with time and some may even come to know and love South Lakes as much as their prior schools.

Good luck.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, now Bruce is part of the cabal? He is merely
> sounding parents out on why they wish to pupil
> place. It's called feed-back and can give him
> information that he can use to improve the school
> further. Also, it is the friendly and civil thing
> to do. His meetings and tours have also resulted
> in parents and students changing their minds and
> deciding to remain at South Lakes. I applaud him
> for his efforts.
>
> Equate the interviews to actually discussing the
> merits and demerits of abortion with a woman
> before she decides to go through with it.
> Sometimes minds are changed and sometimes it is
> for the better.

I always think people are nice and noble before being proved otherwise. Having said this the form was placed at his office last week and I am still waiting for his phone call. Hope it happens this week.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mom Wrote:
>
>
> > If people were getting redistricted to Langley,
> > would we be talking about this? Even if
> Langley
> > was an IB school?
> >
> > What if it was your current school that was
> having
> > SLHS's issues?
>
> Yes we would have objected to any High School
> (Langley included) if it was an IB only school?
> Please get this fact in your head !!
>
> Even though the SB trivializes the IB/AP issue, we
> don't. I want my son to have a life outside
> school and not be totally involved with IB DIPLOMA
> (notice DIPLOMA) program. He is on travel soccer
> team and I don't want to take it away from him.
>
> Why is this fact so difficult to understand?

Many SL kids and parents here have testified that they have successfully juggled sports and music and debate team and drama and the IB diploma. In fact, your son's travel soccer time would count for 50 hours (1/3) of his community service hours for the diploma, so he would be killing two birds with one stone. :)

hmmm Wrote:

>
> I always think people are nice and noble before
> being proved otherwise. Having said this the form
> was placed at his office last week and I am still
> waiting for his phone call. Hope it happens this
> week.

Based on the people posting here, I would imagine that Bruce has a backlog, but I'm sure he will call. I am also sure you will be really impressed with him, the facility, the teachers, and the students.

Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:

> Many SL kids and parents here have testified that
> they have successfully juggled sports and music
> and debate team and drama and the IB diploma. In
> fact, your son's travel soccer time would count
> for 50 hours (1/3) of his community service hours
> for the diploma, so he would be killing two birds
> with one stone. :)

I guss these SL Kids must be very smart. I know what my son can do and not do. I have consulted with him too on this. He prefers AP so I will try and pupil place him out if the SB allows us too. Else we have no option but to relocate.

Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > c'mom Wrote:
> >
> >
> > > If people were getting redistricted to
> Langley,
> > > would we be talking about this? Even if
> > Langley
> > > was an IB school?
> > >
> > > What if it was your current school that was
> > having
> > > SLHS's issues?
> >
> > Yes we would have objected to any High School
> > (Langley included) if it was an IB only school?
>
> > Please get this fact in your head !!
> >
> > Even though the SB trivializes the IB/AP issue,
> we
> > don't. I want my son to have a life outside
> > school and not be totally involved with IB
> DIPLOMA
> > (notice DIPLOMA) program. He is on travel
> soccer
> > team and I don't want to take it away from him.
> >
> > Why is this fact so difficult to understand?
>
> Many SL kids and parents here have testified that
> they have successfully juggled sports and music
> and debate team and drama and the IB diploma. In
> fact, your son's travel soccer time would count
> for 50 hours (1/3) of his community service hours
> for the diploma, so he would be killing two birds
> with one stone. :)

Many SL kids and parents testified....? Again what is the total number of students graduating with an IB diploma at SL last year?

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To correct untruths and misperceptions posted
> here, and to expose negative agendas of some,
> including Neen and Forum Reader.
>
> The map was developed by a SL parent (not the
> PTSA), without the input or counsel of Stu.
> Believe it or not, there are actually thinking and
> intelligent parents in the SL community.
>
> You are correct, I should follow my own advice and
> sign out now, and you can be left to wallow in the
> above, if you choose, or you can get on with your
> lives as best you can.
>
> I am sure that everyone will move on with time and
> some may even come to know and love South Lakes as
> much as their prior schools.
>
> Good luck.

No one here is wallowing in anything. For the most part, everyone is just giving their opinion. I am getting on with my life. I am pupil-placing my kid to Oakton, where he belongs, with his brother, taking pre-AP courses. The school board has simply caused me to have to jump through an extra, unnecessary hoop to ensure what is best for my kid.

I wish only the best for ALL students at South Lakes. However, as good as the IB diploma is, I still believe that the IB program, more so than any perceived under-enrollment, will cause South Lakes' problems to continue.

Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many SL kids and parents here have testified that
> they have successfully juggled sports and music
> and debate team and drama and the IB diploma. In
> fact, your son's travel soccer time would count
> for 50 hours (1/3) of his community service hours
> for the diploma, so he would be killing two birds
> with one stone. :)

Wow! Playing sports counts as community service!? I think hte IB program should call it something else. How is season of soccer practices and games community service?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mon Wrote:
> > .. no one at South Lakes is
> > making this about AP or IB. There is no great
> > conspiracy to cater to IB diploma candidates.
> SLHS
> > cares about ALL their students. It is everyone
> > else who seems to be making this about AP/IB.
>
> ----------
> That is a big part of the problem - SLHS just
> seems to dismiss something that is an integral
> part of high school for thousands and thousands of
> students. We, "everyone else," are not willing to
> surrender this element of our children's
> education. Here again are the 05-06 numbers of
> students taking at least 1 AP Exam in the northern
> and western high schools:
> CHANTILLY 786
> HERNDON 737
> LANGLEY 668
> MADISON 622
> MARSHALL (IB) 2
> MCLEAN 678
> OAKTON 793
> SOUTH LAKES (IB) 3
> WESTFIELD 938


Last year 219 seniors took IB exams (this would be the number of students taking at least one IB course)... 55 of them were IB diploma candidates. You can find more information about IB at SLHS on the South Lakes website.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT grad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > I think Fiona is some SL person just trying to
> be
> > dumb to get a reaction....
>
>
> >
> ...Where is the math you bunch of
> > numbskulls.
>
> A true MIT grad would not make assumptions or hurl
> gratuitous insults.


A true MIT grad calls a lemom a lemon--no fancy words around it. MIT grads are numbers people--they'd take one look at the "integrated" math curriculum offered via IB and say YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. The only papers they plan to write are full of equations. And, they have no problem responding point by point to insulting uninformed people--especially ones that blah blah blah you. Sorry if MIT grad was a little too on the money with his/her reply. If you can't stand the heat...well, you know the rest.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Many SL kids and parents here have testified
> that
> > they have successfully juggled sports and music
> > and debate team and drama and the IB diploma.
> In
> > fact, your son's travel soccer time would count
> > for 50 hours (1/3) of his community service
> hours
> > for the diploma, so he would be killing two
> birds
> > with one stone. :)
>
> Wow! Playing sports counts as community service!?
> I think hte IB program should call it something
> else. How is season of soccer practices and games
> community service?

C = creative, A = Active (soccer) S = service. Keep in mind that when IB was first created in addition to assisting families with having a common curriculum that traveled through foreign service, military etc., they also wanted well rounded kids, not just kids focused on math or science or art...but good courses that dealt with all subjects and interests. The CAS aspect follows that same philosophy. CAS isn't just community service. They have to have creative hours/activities, active hours/activities and service hours/activities. Fish or cut bait mis-spoke when he referred to soccer as community service, but the point is valid, it would count for CAS and he would still obviously be on the travel team.

And keep in mind well rounded isn't just some silly phrase. They are actually looking at via CAS assisting the kids with developing extracurricular activities, and down time so that they aren't just focused on academics, college credit, and pressure from everywhere to do extremely well.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To correct untruths and misperceptions posted
> here, and to expose negative agendas of some,
> including Neen and Forum Reader.
>
> The map was developed by a SL parent (not the
> PTSA), without the input or counsel of Stu.
> Believe it or not, there are actually thinking and
> intelligent parents in the SL community.
>
> You are correct, I should follow my own advice and
> sign out now, and you can be left to wallow in the
> above, if you choose, or you can get on with your
> lives as best you can.
>
> I am sure that everyone will move on with time and
> some may even come to know and love South Lakes as
> much as their prior schools.
>
> Good luck.

I did not graduate from MIT but I am capable of objecting to this plan foisted upon taxpayers and citizens of Fairfax County. Parts of Langley could have been changed to Herndon. Aldrin [plus 2 Langley neighborhoods] SHOULD have gone to South Lakes. Just where was the South Lakes PTA group as well as any other affected area?

Everyone was hiding thinking there would be a last minute reprieve. South Lakes restonians were bullied by Aldrin.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> For further proof, listen to the MP3 of Gibson's
> testimony,



Where can we find the MP3? I've been looking for it on the agenda site at FCPS but can't find it?

thanks

This is the worst form of torture. Watching your children suffer and cry is even more torturous than physically beating the person. So the SB is guilty of torture

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> race to class Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > leave_us_alone Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Seems like the online edition of the post
> > article
> > > says,
> > >
> > > Class was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> > >
> > > But my printed edition says
> > >
> > > Race was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> > >
> > > Change from Race to Class. hmm. Interesting
> !!
> > >
> > > Stu saying Floris and FM parents are racist.
> >
> >
> > Ms. Chandler misquoted Stu Gibson. Too late to
> > correct the printed edition. Call the Post if
> you
> > don't believe me.
>
> For further proof, listen to the MP3 of Gibson's
> testimony, where never once did he mention race.
> He spoke about socio-economics and English
> language proficiency.
>
> And yes, Tina Hone (who is part black, you know)
> compared RD with torture, and when Mr. Moon tried
> to call her on it, she rudely cut him off and
> backtracked on her statement.

race to class Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seems like the online edition of the post
> article
> > says,
> >
> > Class was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> >
> > But my printed edition says
> >
> > Race was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> >
> > Change from Race to Class. hmm. Interesting !!
> >
> > Stu saying Floris and FM parents are racist.
>
>
> Ms. Chandler misquoted Stu Gibson. Too late to
> correct the printed edition. Call the Post if you
> don't believe me.


Hmmm...maybe it's just because we all knew what he meant (even the Post reporter.)
And, yes, with his farmer and plow story and his recitation of ESOL figures (one in 7 at SL speaks Spanish as first language), he did say at the Feb 28th meeting that those opposed to the RD are racists. There is NO OTHER WAY TO TAKE THOSE COMMENTS.

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> C = creative, A = Active (soccer) S = service.
> Keep in mind that when IB was first created in
> addition to assisting families with having a
> common curriculum that traveled through foreign
> service, military etc., they also wanted well
> rounded kids, not just kids focused on math or
> science or art...but good courses that dealt with
> all subjects and interests. The CAS aspect
> follows that same philosophy. CAS isn't just
> community service. They have to have creative
> hours/activities, active hours/activities and
> service hours/activities. Fish or cut bait
> mis-spoke when he referred to soccer as community
> service, but the point is valid, it would count
> for CAS and he would still obviously be on the
> travel team.
>
> And keep in mind well rounded isn't just some
> silly phrase. They are actually looking at via
> CAS assisting the kids with developing
> extracurricular activities, and down time so that
> they aren't just focused on academics, college
> credit, and pressure from everywhere to do
> extremely well.


Thanks for clearing that up. That makes a lot more sense.

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone fill me in - did I correctly hear that
> Tina Hone compared her vote against RD to having
> the courage to oppose torture?
>
>
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > skeptic - it is as if you are wilfully being
> > intransigent to embrace fatalism. Yes, there
> are
> > social problems in the affected communities -
> and
> > the schools would be far better off to realize
> > that they cannot fix most of them - thank you
> out
> > of wedlock births and great society programs
> that
> > discourage accountability - but what the
> schools
> > can do is give an intense education with a keen
> > focus on the fundamentals. And this needs to
> be
> > done in the elementary grades - struggling kids
> > with very few exceptions either get it done
> early
> > on (3rd grade is a huge year) or they are in
> > trouble for some time to come. This is why I
> have
> > a problem with Herrstein, Murray, et al and
> others
> > who focus on IQ differences - the public
> schools
> > must take the kids as they come - and frankly,
> a
> > rising tide lifts all boats - if there is the
> > political will to raise the tide.
> >
> > And Neen is right - it makes no sense why the
> > challenging schools in Reston perform worse
> than
> > the schools in Richmond or Norfolk. Virtually
> > none of the serious negatives that one sees in
> > those cities is present in Reston - and yet
> scores
> > really suffer. In response, let's make clear
> that
> > this has not come about through lack of effort
> -
> > there are good teachers in these schools that
> are
> > making saintly efforts - but the whole notion
> of
> > teaching what makes kids feel good as opposed
> to
> > teaching hardened skills that will hardwire
> them
> > for future challenges has just gone too far.
> And
> > teaching hardwired skills is tough - because
> that
> > means social promotion of all kinds stops - and
> > that kind of activity receives all sorts of
> > complaints about discrimination - but it is so
> > necessary to do.


No, it was not Tina Hone who compared her vote opposing RD as the courage to stand up to torture. It was Elizabeth Bradsher who suggested that the suffering of Holocaust victims belongs in the same conversation as the "suffering" of children affected by the RD. Her comments were even more shocking than Stu Gibson's, and Gibson is hard to beat. Where does this woman live? I am so glad she is not my representative. I really hope CNN or one of the big news stations picks some of this up.

pupil_place_for_me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
>
> > Why not stop all the Monday-morning
> > quarterbacking, either pupil place your child,
> > move, or actually give SL a try and become one
> of
> > its advocates. Advocate for the curriculum you
> > want. You will be more than welcome at South
> > Lakes, especially if you become an active
> > participant.
> >
> Oh !!
>
> We will pupil place for sure. No question about
> that?
>
> And ask yourself why Bruce Butler insists on
> speaking with parent of each child before he
> forwards the pupil placement request? If you are
> so open to pupil placing out, don't put barriers
> ahead of us and delay this process.

My guess is that he would like to speak with all, because there are some ro many, who have basically discounted SL totally on the basis of a lot of hear-say. Butler, by most, if not all accounts, is fair, decent and reasonable. He will not oppose you pupil placing out, if at the end of the day, that is what you wish for your child.

Well, then why DID Tina Hone compare her voting against RD to having the courage to oppose torture? Bradsher spoke first and rejected such comparisons, stating that anti-RD parents said they didn't want their kids to "suffer," but she realized that real suffering occurred in WW II. Tina Hone spoke later, and could have embraced that obvious truth, but instead she apparently chose to continue to buy into the notion that going to South Lakes is "suffering" and took it one step further and chose to couch her anti-RD vote as akin to voting against torture. Tina Hone is unfit to serve.


Tina Hone fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can someone fill me in - did I correctly hear
> that
> > Tina Hone compared her vote against RD to
> having
> > the courage to oppose torture?
> >
> >
> > quantum Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > skeptic - it is as if you are wilfully being
> > > intransigent to embrace fatalism. Yes, there
> > are
> > > social problems in the affected communities -
> > and
> > > the schools would be far better off to
> realize
> > > that they cannot fix most of them - thank you
> > out
> > > of wedlock births and great society programs
> > that
> > > discourage accountability - but what the
> > schools
> > > can do is give an intense education with a
> keen
> > > focus on the fundamentals. And this needs to
> > be
> > > done in the elementary grades - struggling
> kids
> > > with very few exceptions either get it done
> > early
> > > on (3rd grade is a huge year) or they are in
> > > trouble for some time to come. This is why I
> > have
> > > a problem with Herrstein, Murray, et al and
> > others
> > > who focus on IQ differences - the public
> > schools
> > > must take the kids as they come - and
> frankly,
> > a
> > > rising tide lifts all boats - if there is the
> > > political will to raise the tide.
> > >
> > > And Neen is right - it makes no sense why the
> > > challenging schools in Reston perform worse
> > than
> > > the schools in Richmond or Norfolk.
> Virtually
> > > none of the serious negatives that one sees
> in
> > > those cities is present in Reston - and yet
> > scores
> > > really suffer. In response, let's make clear
> > that
> > > this has not come about through lack of
> effort
> > -
> > > there are good teachers in these schools that
> > are
> > > making saintly efforts - but the whole notion
> > of
> > > teaching what makes kids feel good as opposed
> > to
> > > teaching hardened skills that will hardwire
> > them
> > > for future challenges has just gone too far.
> > And
> > > teaching hardwired skills is tough - because
> > that
> > > means social promotion of all kinds stops -
> and
> > > that kind of activity receives all sorts of
> > > complaints about discrimination - but it is
> so
> > > necessary to do.
>
>
> No, it was not Tina Hone who compared her vote
> opposing RD as the courage to stand up to torture.
> It was Elizabeth Bradsher who suggested that the
> suffering of Holocaust victims belongs in the same
> conversation as the "suffering" of children
> affected by the RD. Her comments were even more
> shocking than Stu Gibson's, and Gibson is hard to
> beat. Where does this woman live? I am so glad
> she is not my representative. I really hope CNN or
> one of the big news stations picks some of this
> up.

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can someone fill me in - did I correctly hear that
> Tina Hone compared her vote against RD to having
> the courage to oppose torture?
>
>
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > skeptic - it is as if you are wilfully being
> > intransigent to embrace fatalism. Yes, there
> are
> > social problems in the affected communities -
> and
> > the schools would be far better off to realize
> > that they cannot fix most of them - thank you
> out
> > of wedlock births and great society programs
> that
> > discourage accountability - but what the
> schools
> > can do is give an intense education with a keen
> > focus on the fundamentals. And this needs to
> be
> > done in the elementary grades - struggling kids
> > with very few exceptions either get it done
> early
> > on (3rd grade is a huge year) or they are in
> > trouble for some time to come. This is why I
> have
> > a problem with Herrstein, Murray, et al and
> others
> > who focus on IQ differences - the public
> schools
> > must take the kids as they come - and frankly,
> a
> > rising tide lifts all boats - if there is the
> > political will to raise the tide.
> >
> > And Neen is right - it makes no sense why the
> > challenging schools in Reston perform worse
> than
> > the schools in Richmond or Norfolk. Virtually
> > none of the serious negatives that one sees in
> > those cities is present in Reston - and yet
> scores
> > really suffer. In response, let's make clear
> that
> > this has not come about through lack of effort
> -
> > there are good teachers in these schools that
> are
> > making saintly efforts - but the whole notion
> of
> > teaching what makes kids feel good as opposed
> to
> > teaching hardened skills that will hardwire
> them
> > for future challenges has just gone too far.
> And
> > teaching hardwired skills is tough - because
> that
> > means social promotion of all kinds stops - and
> > that kind of activity receives all sorts of
> > complaints about discrimination - but it is so
> > necessary to do.


Yeah, she also advocated for burning the American flag.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SBS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Perhaps they just used their sippy-cup map to
> > draw
> > > the circle, and realizing that though just as
> > > close, bringing in Crossfield would leave Fox
> > Mill
> > > as an island; so they chose the most logical
> > > route. More than one group could have come
> up
> > > with this scenario. Actually, Franklin
> Farm's
> > > advocacy group developed the exact same
> > scenario
> > > that SL did. It's not that hard to imagine.
> > If
> > > both of those groups could do it, it is not
> > hard
> > > to take the leap that SB staff did the same.
> >
> > Yeah, ok. Keep telling yourself that. Trouble
> > is, if logic was used to define the new map, it
> > would have been considerably different from
> what
> > they ended up with. Can you say Langley? SL
> > probably would have loved to have some of them,
> > but those same Langley people, and therefore
> Stu
> > Gibson, would have no parts of it. Can you say
> > McNair Farms? They are closer to SL than the
> > Floris area they are now forcing to SL.
> Trouble
> > is, SL didn't want any part of McNair Farms.
> > Langley is too rich (therefore too powerful) to
> > forcibly move. Gibson has a not so subtle soft
> > spot for SL. So what's left? Floris and Fox
> Mill.
> > Done deal.
>
>
> MIT Grad Too also wants to ignore the fact that in
> the second town hall meeting, a lot of SL kids
> went on saying option 5 option 5 etc. They had
> all the material needed for this option in their
> hand.
>
> The bottom line is there was a dirty nexus between
> SL PTSA and Stu Gibson in propogating this option.
> SL PTSA also had this option 5-10 days before it
> was announced. Stu has used SL PTSA and Fox Mill
> PTSA president to drive his agenda. Stu has
> refused to meet with anyone from Floris and never
> returned emails (which were civil).
>
> We will never forget this.


Stu never met with South lakes either. I also sent him several emails FOR redistricting and he never answered any of them.

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mom Wrote:
>
>
> > If people were getting redistricted to Langley,
> > would we be talking about this? Even if
> Langley
> > was an IB school?
> >
> > What if it was your current school that was
> having
> > SLHS's issues?
>
> Yes we would have objected to any High School
> (Langley included) if it was an IB only school?
> Please get this fact in your head !!
>
> Even though the SB trivializes the IB/AP issue, we
> don't. I want my son to have a life outside
> school and not be totally involved with IB DIPLOMA
> (notice DIPLOMA) program. He is on travel soccer
> team and I don't want to take it away from him.
>
> Why is this fact so difficult to understand?


You really think that IB diploma candidates don't participate in sports or out side activities? Of course they do.

Okay, just curious, how about this one... if your current school went IB next year, would you still want to be there?

another observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yeah, she also advocated for burning the American
> flag.


As I recall, Jabba the Hone didn't advocate burning the flag per se, simply the "right" to burn the flag. What that had to do with RD I'll never understand but it was right up their in banality with the previously mentioned quotes from Bradsher & Gibson.

race to class 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> race to class Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > leave_us_alone Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Seems like the online edition of the post
> > article
> > > says,
> > >
> > > Class was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> > >
> > > But my printed edition says
> > >
> > > Race was 900 pound gorilla in the room.
> > >
> > > Change from Race to Class. hmm. Interesting
> !!
> > >
> > > Stu saying Floris and FM parents are racist.
> >
> >
> > Ms. Chandler misquoted Stu Gibson. Too late to
> > correct the printed edition. Call the Post if
> you
> > don't believe me.
>
>
> Hmmm...maybe it's just because we all knew what he
> meant (even the Post reporter.)
> And, yes, with his farmer and plow story and his
> recitation of ESOL figures (one in 7 at SL speaks
> Spanish as first language), he did say at the Feb
> 28th meeting that those opposed to the RD are
> racists. There is NO OTHER WAY TO TAKE THOSE
> COMMENTS.


Spanish speaking students are not the only ESOL students at SLHS. There are something like 60 different countries represented here. I know Stu did not specifically call out Spanish. That would be a false comment.

Tina Hone fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can someone fill me in - did I correctly hear
> that
> > Tina Hone compared her vote against RD to
> having
> > the courage to oppose torture?
> >
> >
> > quantum Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > skeptic - it is as if you are wilfully being
> > > intransigent to embrace fatalism. Yes, there
> > are
> > > social problems in the affected communities -
> > and
> > > the schools would be far better off to
> realize
> > > that they cannot fix most of them - thank you
> > out
> > > of wedlock births and great society programs
> > that
> > > discourage accountability - but what the
> > schools
> > > can do is give an intense education with a
> keen
> > > focus on the fundamentals. And this needs to
> > be
> > > done in the elementary grades - struggling
> kids
> > > with very few exceptions either get it done
> > early
> > > on (3rd grade is a huge year) or they are in
> > > trouble for some time to come. This is why I
> > have
> > > a problem with Herrstein, Murray, et al and
> > others
> > > who focus on IQ differences - the public
> > schools
> > > must take the kids as they come - and
> frankly,
> > a
> > > rising tide lifts all boats - if there is the
> > > political will to raise the tide.
> > >
> > > And Neen is right - it makes no sense why the
> > > challenging schools in Reston perform worse
> > than
> > > the schools in Richmond or Norfolk.
> Virtually
> > > none of the serious negatives that one sees
> in
> > > those cities is present in Reston - and yet
> > scores
> > > really suffer. In response, let's make clear
> > that
> > > this has not come about through lack of
> effort
> > -
> > > there are good teachers in these schools that
> > are
> > > making saintly efforts - but the whole notion
> > of
> > > teaching what makes kids feel good as opposed
> > to
> > > teaching hardened skills that will hardwire
> > them
> > > for future challenges has just gone too far.
> > And
> > > teaching hardwired skills is tough - because
> > that
> > > means social promotion of all kinds stops -
> and
> > > that kind of activity receives all sorts of
> > > complaints about discrimination - but it is
> so
> > > necessary to do.
>
>
> No, it was not Tina Hone who compared her vote
> opposing RD as the courage to stand up to torture.
> It was Elizabeth Bradsher who suggested that the
> suffering of Holocaust victims belongs in the same
> conversation as the "suffering" of children
> affected by the RD. Her comments were even more
> shocking than Stu Gibson's, and Gibson is hard to
> beat. Where does this woman live? I am so glad
> she is not my representative. I really hope CNN or
> one of the big news stations picks some of this
> up.


Don't you get it? She was telling people to gain some perspective.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT grad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > I think Fiona is some SL person just trying to
> be
> > dumb to get a reaction....
>
>
> >
> ...Where is the math you bunch of
> > numbskulls.
>
> A true MIT grad would not make assumptions or hurl
> gratuitous insults.

I am course VI...you?

This forum exists to express ideas and feelings...you got both with my post. You responded to my feelings...now try to respond to my ideas. How many extra sessions of TOK would you expect from the 600 kids hijacked into the school. Make a reasoned assumption about #s of pupil placement out for IB, and #s of pupils who will try IB, and the number that will go all the way for the diploma. That is, what does 600 middle class kids get you? My theory is that no one has sat down to even a back-of-the-envelope analysis. To get a truly rich set of course offerings, you probably need 800-900 kids. Maybe the SLPTA can get with Stu to rip out some more Floris or Chantilly kids when they do Coppermine. But do not try to take Langley...Janie Strauss will have Stu's balls hanging from her rearview mirror. (Hmmm....what is their relationship anyway?)

c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > c'mom Wrote:
> >
> >
> > > If people were getting redistricted to
> Langley,
> > > would we be talking about this? Even if
> > Langley
> > > was an IB school?
> > >
> > > What if it was your current school that was
> > having
> > > SLHS's issues?
> >
> > Yes we would have objected to any High School
> > (Langley included) if it was an IB only school?
>
> > Please get this fact in your head !!
> >
> > Even though the SB trivializes the IB/AP issue,
> we
> > don't. I want my son to have a life outside
> > school and not be totally involved with IB
> DIPLOMA
> > (notice DIPLOMA) program. He is on travel
> soccer
> > team and I don't want to take it away from him.
> >
> > Why is this fact so difficult to understand?
>
>
> You really think that IB diploma candidates don't
> participate in sports or out side activities? Of
> course they do.
>
> Okay, just curious, how about this one... if your
> current school went IB next year, would you still
> want to be there?

This is not exactly a fair question to ask for those redistricted families who have 8th graders full knowing what their academic needs would be. Carson and Franklin MS did not have the Middle Years IB programs like Hughes does. Now if I had elementary school aged kids or younger, I would have waited to see whether the IB or the AP program or the Gen Ed would fit for my kids before making a decision whether to pupil place out or not. If I had older high school kids being in the AP program and the high school converts to IB, there would be grandfathering of these AP students to finish up their AP studies. I keep hearing how Mr. Butler would give tours to those parents, that is nice of him to make the time to give tours of the school, but shouldn't academic needs of these parents' kids come first?

MIT Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MIT grad Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > I think Fiona is some SL person just trying
> to
> > be
> > > dumb to get a reaction....
> >
> >
> > >
> > ...Where is the math you bunch of
> > > numbskulls.
> >
> > A true MIT grad would not make assumptions or
> hurl
> > gratuitous insults.
>
> I am course VI...you?
>
> This forum exists to express ideas and
> feelings...you got both with my post. You
> responded to my feelings...now try to respond to
> my ideas. How many extra sessions of TOK would
> you expect from the 600 kids hijacked into the
> school. Make a reasoned assumption about #s of
> pupil placement out for IB, and #s of pupils who
> will try IB, and the number that will go all the
> way for the diploma. That is, what does 600
> middle class kids get you? My theory is that no
> one has sat down to even a back-of-the-envelope
> analysis. To get a truly rich set of course
> offerings, you probably need 800-900 kids. Maybe
> the SLPTA can get with Stu to rip out some more
> Floris or Chantilly kids when they do Coppermine.
> But do not try to take Langley...Janie Strauss
> will have Stu's balls hanging from her rearview
> mirror. (Hmmm....what is their relationship
> anyway?)


Their relationship? Try Madison Island which was carved out to go to SL.

MIT Grad Wrote:
> ... (Hmmm....what is their relationship anyway?)

I very much agree Langley should have been included in this study, but ease off. She just buried her husband.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT Grad Wrote:
> > ... (Hmmm....what is their relationship
> anyway?)
>
> I very much agree Langley should have been
> included in this study, but ease off. She just
> buried her husband.

And that is why she is a lying, conniving political hack who says she is looking out for the entire county, when she is really only looking out for her rich constituents?

And she is not reading this blog...none of the SB members have the courage or stomach for it. But in case she is reading here, I offer my condolences. However, your grief does not expunge your irresponsible and unethical conduct on the Board.

MIT Grad Wrote:

>
> This forum exists to express ideas and
> feelings...you got both with my post. You
> responded to my feelings...now try to respond to
> my ideas. How many extra sessions of TOK would
> you expect from the 600 kids hijacked into the
> school. Make a reasoned assumption about #s of
> pupil placement out for IB, and #s of pupils who
> will try IB, and the number that will go all the
> way for the diploma. That is, what does 600
> middle class kids get you? My theory is that no
> one has sat down to even a back-of-the-envelope
> analysis. To get a truly rich set of course
> offerings, you probably need 800-900 kids. Maybe
> the SLPTA can get with Stu to rip out some more
> Floris or Chantilly kids when they do Coppermine.
> But do not try to take Langley...Janie Strauss
> will have Stu's balls hanging from her rearview
> mirror. (Hmmm....what is their relationship
> anyway?)


No one said anything about more TOK classes being a priority. Whatever the new SL population needs, SL will be better equipped to provide it. I know you are going to say they need more AP courses. And no one said that isn't going to happen. Any one who has a student at SL has a say about what is offered there. You can't expect to force a complete turn around of it's current program before you even get there. And remember this is a fairly new program that is just really starting to settle in. When I moved to Reston, South Lakes was an AP school. My children were way to young to be involved with what was going on at the high school. IB was adopted at South lakes without my input. That choice was made for me as well.

I also want to point out that the IB diploma is only 11th and 12th grade. Middle Years program extends through 10th grade. It is not just middle school. As long as your child has taken Algebra 1 and one year of a foreign language before they come to SL, they are on track. If they haven't, there are still ways to get on track.

AP vs IB Wrote:

> C = creative, A = Active (soccer) S = service.
> Keep in mind that when IB was first created in
> addition to assisting families with having a
> common curriculum that traveled through foreign
> service, military etc., they also wanted well
> rounded kids, not just kids focused on math or
> science or art...but good courses that dealt with
> all subjects and interests. The CAS aspect
> follows that same philosophy. CAS isn't just
> community service. They have to have creative
> hours/activities, active hours/activities and
> service hours/activities. Fish or cut bait
> mis-spoke when he referred to soccer as community
> service, but the point is valid, it would count
> for CAS and he would still obviously be on the
> travel team.
>
> And keep in mind well rounded isn't just some
> silly phrase. They are actually looking at via
> CAS assisting the kids with developing
> extracurricular activities, and down time so that
> they aren't just focused on academics, college
> credit, and pressure from everywhere to do
> extremely well.
-------------------

View CAS as a requirement forced on European students; CAS is usually the easiest part of IB for American students to complete.

My objection to IB CAS is the elitism, the extra resources given to the few, special, IB Diploma Candidates. From "SCHOOLS’ GUIDE TO THE DIPLOMA PROGRAMME":
"Creativity, Action, Service (CAS) … Each school appoints a CAS supervisor who is responsible for providing a varied choice of activities for all Diploma Programme students. ... The CAS requirement takes seriously the importance of life outside the world of scholarship, providing a refreshing counterbalance to the academic self-absorption some may feel within a demanding school environment...."

Gee, wouldn't it be nice if all our kids had a paid staff member whose primary job is to provide a few special students a variety of "refreshing" activities, and motivate them to do them, and track them for a nice little resume?

c'mon Wrote:
> I also want to point out that the IB diploma is
> only 11th and 12th grade. Middle Years program
> extends through 10th grade. It is not just middle
> school. As long as your child has taken Algebra 1
> and one year of a foreign language before they
> come to SL, they are on track. If they haven't,
> there are still ways to get on track.

If MYP is not needed, then dump it, and save the money.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> My objection to IB CAS is the elitism, the extra
> resources given to the few, special, IB Diploma
> Candidates. From "SCHOOLS’ GUIDE TO THE DIPLOMA
> PROGRAMME":
> "Creativity, Action, Service (CAS) … Each school
> appoints a CAS supervisor who is responsible for
> providing a varied choice of activities for all
> Diploma Programme students. ... The CAS
> requirement takes seriously the importance of life
> outside the world of scholarship, providing a
> refreshing counterbalance to the academic
> self-absorption some may feel within a demanding
> school environment...."
>
> Gee, wouldn't it be nice if all our kids had a
> paid staff member whose primary job is to provide
> a few special students a variety of "refreshing"
> activities, and motivate them to do them, and
> track them for a nice little resume?

I can see what you are saying, however the person in charge of collecting the students forms to document their CAS hours is a full time teacher as well, at least at Stuart.

c'mon Wrote:
> ... you are going to say they need more AP courses.
> And no one said that isn't going to happen. Any
> one who has a student at SL has a say about what
> is offered there. You can't expect to force a
> complete turn around of it's current program
> before you even get there. ...
>
We MUST start a complete turnaround NOW. The current students have IB - they are taken care of. We are working for future South Lakes students.

For next year, dump AP Human Geography. Add instead the two AP courses open to 10th-12th graders, AP Art History (an art elective) and AP World History (a core SOL course for tenth graders).

hmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow, now Bruce is part of the cabal? He is
> merely
> > sounding parents out on why they wish to pupil
> > place. It's called feed-back and can give him
> > information that he can use to improve the
> school
> > further. Also, it is the friendly and civil
> thing
> > to do. His meetings and tours have also
> resulted
> > in parents and students changing their minds
> and
> > deciding to remain at South Lakes. I applaud
> him
> > for his efforts.
> >
> > Equate the interviews to actually discussing
> the
> > merits and demerits of abortion with a woman
> > before she decides to go through with it.
> > Sometimes minds are changed and sometimes it is
> > for the better.
>
> I always think people are nice and noble before
> being proved otherwise. Having said this the form
> was placed at his office last week and I am still
> waiting for his phone call. Hope it happens this
> week.


I think you'd better call them rather than wait. I'm not passing judgment on anyone at SL, just knowing from experience that things can get delayed when they aren't at the top of someone else's priorities. We all do it, just human nature I guess.

That's exactly right, AP vs. IB, and at SL it is a volunteer position, so no extra money spent there. FR is a know-it-all who is so smart that she can't even admit that her IB info may be out of date or incorrect. Too bad for her. She is still trapped in the Woodson glory days.

Baffled, look at a map and you will see that MI was not carved out. It should have been at SL or Marshall all along.

c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one said anything about more TOK classes being
> a priority. Whatever the new SL population needs,
> SL will be better equipped to provide it. I know
> you are going to say they need more AP courses.
> And no one said that isn't going to happen. Any
> one who has a student at SL has a say about what
> is offered there. You can't expect to force a
> complete turn around of it's current program
> before you even get there. And remember this is a
> fairly new program that is just really starting to
> settle in. When I moved to Reston, South Lakes
> was an AP school. My children were way to young
> to be involved with what was going on at the high
> school. IB was adopted at South lakes without my
> input. That choice was made for me as well.
>
> I also want to point out that the IB diploma is
> only 11th and 12th grade. Middle Years program
> extends through 10th grade. It is not just middle
> school. As long as your child has taken Algebra 1
> and one year of a foreign language before they
> come to SL, they are on track. If they haven't,
> there are still ways to get on track.

In other words, SLPTA and the SB have no idea what they bought...kinda like a trunk auction...they are hoping for nice prize inside the trunk. All they knew was they did not want the trunk labeled "McNair" and were too frightened to consider a trunk labeled "Langley".

So, Butler gets the kids who do not pupil place and will figure out what to do. The existing mafia will try to brainwash/seduce as many as possible into IB. If the numbers still are such that it is not possible to have a viable IB program/jewelry making program/culinary arts program, they'll come back to Stu for another bite of the Floris/Chantilly apple.

Don't agree...then try harder to estimate what the theft of 600 kids buys the school. Do some projections based on the "good kids" already at SL. That is, earlier someone (you?) posted that some large # of kids are 'special needs', leaving only around half the kids as "normal". (I interpret the previous poster as saying ESOL and FRM are special needs, while the rich white kids are normal.) So use the baseline of "normal" kids at SL, and apply the percentages to the 600 (minus however many you think will pupil place out - I estimate 200 pupil place out....i.e., about 50/year). So, if SL steals 150 "normal" kids/year, loses 50 to pupil placing, that leaves 100/year of what the posters here think are "normal". What does that buy you? And particularly, how will the vaunted IB program be affected. Generously, 10% will try it at the HL, and 1% will get the diploma. That is, only 1 extra kid per year will get the diploma...10/year will take HL classes. Is that really worth the angst....I submit not.

Because no one in support of RD can attempt a reasoned mathematical analysis, and because no one in support of RD has listed a single serious class that is not offered, or a single serious class for which there are not enough sessions, I think the effort is idiotic. Raney said it well last week...where is the business case for this. He was focusing on $$$. I am addressing academic efficiency. There is no business case except for empty seats. Just ship the seats to the warehouse until SL can build a program that people will not flee.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We MUST start a complete turnaround NOW. The
> current students have IB - they are taken care of.
> We are working for future South Lakes students.
>
> For next year, dump AP Human Geography. Add
> instead the two AP courses open to 10th-12th
> graders, AP Art History (an art elective) and AP
> World History (a core SOL course for tenth
> graders).

That makes sense on the surface, but it also implies that they would consider offering sufficient AP courses later for the relocated students when they are juniors and seniors. That simply will not happen.

condolences Wrote:
> ... your grief does not expunge
> your irresponsible and unethical conduct on the
> Board.

If you cannot carry out your duties you should take a sabbatical.

But her grief SHOULD protect her from snide snarky sexual comments such as, "...Janie Strauss will have Stu's balls hanging from her rearview mirror. (Hmmm....what is their relationship anyway?)"

There you go again MIT, making assumptions. It is also laughable that you regard Raney as an authority. His grasp is/was weak at best.

I have spoken with Mr. Butler regarding splitting siblings and he can empathize with parents who are in that situation. He knows how hard it would be for parents to support 2 high schools. He is a reasonable man and will probably approve all requests for pupil-placement of students to the AP program, especially if they have a sibling already at Oakton. He probably just wants to make sure the pupil being placed out of SL for the AP program can really do the program. I think this is totally acceptable. Of course the SB only cared about split-feeders and not split-families, so we have to go this route.

Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There you go again MIT, making assumptions. It is
> also laughable that you regard Raney as an
> authority. His grasp is/was weak at best.


There you go again, unable to provide a single logic based response. If you had an AP based math or philosophy education, you might be able to respond in kind.

I was not lionizing Raney. I was just saying he was asking good questions....numbers do not lie...provide some numeric based rationale for this RD other than 600 empty chairs.

The ENTIRE school board's grasp is weak. At least Hone and Raney had the good sense to realize that and vote against this half-assed redistricting plan. Their grasp is weak because they didn't do the necessary leg work to determine what the real problems of South Lakes are, or what the results would be for any attempt at solving those problems, including, but not limited to any redistricting.

Max Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have spoken with Mr. Butler regarding splitting
> siblings and he can empathize with parents who are
> in that situation. He knows how hard it would be
> for parents to support 2 high schools. He is a
> reasonable man and will probably approve all
> requests for pupil-placement of students to the AP
> program, especially if they have a sibling already
> at Oakton. He probably just wants to make sure
> the pupil being placed out of SL for the AP
> program can really do the program. I think this
> is totally acceptable. Of course the SB only
> cared about split-feeders and not split-families,
> so we have to go this route.


That all sounds reasonable. I think people's concern with the interview process is that 1) it raised the question of whether he would be making decisions on who stays and who goes, and 2) there is a deadline for submitting these forms, and although it is still about 6 weeks away, some parents might get caught up in a long wait for an interview. If neither of these things prevents valid pupil placing, then no problem.

After what some posters have said on here about GPA requirements to pupil place into Madison, I think the concern isn't surprising.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> condolences Wrote:
> > ... your grief does not expunge
> > your irresponsible and unethical conduct on the
> > Board.
>
> If you cannot carry out your duties you should
> take a sabbatical.
>
> But her grief SHOULD protect her from snide snarky
> sexual comments such as, "...Janie Strauss will
> have Stu's balls hanging from her rearview mirror.
> (Hmmm....what is their relationship anyway?)"

Don't know how many pseudonyms you have used, but I imagine you are not knew to this forum. Even someone with a SL education should be able to recognize sarcasm is a valid form of verbal protest. Glad to have gotten your goat.

Can you respond to the mathematical model in my posts, or are you just the "tut-tut" monitor of the day?

Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's exactly right, AP vs. IB, and at SL it is a
> volunteer position, so no extra money spent there.
> FR is a know-it-all who is so smart that she
> can't even admit that her IB info may be out of
> date or incorrect. Too bad for her. She is still
> trapped in the Woodson glory days.
>
> Baffled, look at a map and you will see that MI
> was not carved out. It should have been at SL or
> Marshall all along.

Carving out..my statement still stands. "Carving out = scooping it in" I know what it looks like on a map with MI. Marshall is way too far for MI. Marshall is in Falls Church. When MI was newly developed, why didn't it be part of SL in the first place? Something to do with the annexation issue?

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> > We MUST start a complete turnaround NOW. The
> > current students have IB - they are taken care
> of. We are working for future South Lakes students.
>
> >
> > For next year, dump AP Human Geography. Add
> > instead the two AP courses open to 10th-12th
> > graders, AP Art History (an art elective) and AP
> > World History (a core SOL course for tenth
> > graders).
>
> That makes sense on the surface, but it also
> implies that they would consider offering
> sufficient AP courses later for the relocated
> students when they are juniors and seniors. That
> simply will not happen.

------------------
Why not? After offering a couple of decent AP courses next year, a year or two from now there may well be a pro-AP majority at SLHS.

Students who score a 4 or 5 on AP Art History earn EIGHT credits at UVA. Didn't someone earlier today say someone who earned a full IB Diploma got only 9 credits? Once the kids see that, how many will want IB?

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Max Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have spoken with Mr. Butler regarding
> splitting
> > siblings and he can empathize with parents who
> are
> > in that situation. He knows how hard it would
> be
> > for parents to support 2 high schools. He is a
> > reasonable man and will probably approve all
> > requests for pupil-placement of students to the
> AP
> > program, especially if they have a sibling
> already
> > at Oakton. He probably just wants to make sure
> > the pupil being placed out of SL for the AP
> > program can really do the program. I think
> this
> > is totally acceptable. Of course the SB only
> > cared about split-feeders and not
> split-families,
> > so we have to go this route.
>
>
> That all sounds reasonable. I think people's
> concern with the interview process is that 1) it
> raised the question of whether he would be making
> decisions on who stays and who goes, and 2) there
> is a deadline for submitting these forms, and
> although it is still about 6 weeks away, some
> parents might get caught up in a long wait for an
> interview. If neither of these things prevents
> valid pupil placing, then no problem.
>
> After what some posters have said on here about
> GPA requirements to pupil place into Madison, I
> think the concern isn't surprising.

GPA requirements are not a bad idea. The AP program is rigorous and many people might use pupil-placing into the AP program as a quick fix to get into the school of their choice. Mr. Butler is just making sure those students really belong. Anyone who has turned their pupil-placement forms into SL should make periodic phone calls to make sure they stay in the loop.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> For next year, dump AP Human Geography. Add
> instead the two AP courses open to 10th-12th
> graders, AP Art History (an art elective) and AP
> World History (a core SOL course for tenth
> graders).

Errr, most people have complained that IB does not support scientists, engineers and mathematicians well

What use is Art History to them? They're looking for rigorous science and math, not fluffy bunny courses.

I don't think that's on the MIT engineering requirements list - how about AP Physics? or a proper roster of science, technology and math APs?

I think the criticisms, implied or express, of Bruce Butler and his apparent insistence on meeting people prior to executing a pupil placement form, are off base. Principals above all else are supposed to be leaders of their community, and irrespective of whether one disagrees with his views his policy does reflect a commitment of effort that is admirable. Fighting to keep productive and focused students is a good thing, so long as it is done professionally, which very much appears to be the case. In fact, if, as some indicate here, SLHS experiences a disappointing yield as a result of redistricting (and that could happen), he will with this practice have a very good source of information and feedback to help determine the cause and effect of the same. I would give him 15 minutes of my time, even if very much inclined not to concur with his views. I think as a taxpayer I absolutely have a right to demand a fair contract from the schools - but it goes both ways - I have to give a certain amount of respect, too.

And by the way, I find the analogy to abortion above offensive (and it has nothing to do with personal views on the issue). A silly analogy on an intensely personal situation has little to do with the nuts and bolts of choosing an educational institution - the bright people who post on this board - have choices for their kids that are, depending on their kid, either reasonably good or better, and extreme statements like these are laughable. And while we are at - the same applies to comparisons to the Holocaust and other such absurdities.

MIT Grad Wrote:
> Can you respond to the mathematical model in my
> posts, or are you just the "tut-tut" monitor of
> the day?

This thread is so active I am only looking at the most recent posts then working backwards to if I see anything interesting on which to comment.

In other words, please repost your model and state what you want done with it. If it worth addressing, I'll try to find the time.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT Grad Wrote:
> > Can you respond to the mathematical model in my
> > posts, or are you just the "tut-tut" monitor of
> > the day?
>
> This thread is so active I am only looking at the
> most recent posts then working backwards to if I
> see anything interesting on which to comment.
>
> In other words, please repost your model and state
> what you want done with it. If it worth
> addressing, I'll try to find the time.


Don't strain yourself...I know it is hard to move the cursor up the page.

Forum reader Wrote:
> ------------------
> Why not? After offering a couple of decent AP
> courses next year, a year or two from now there
> may well be a pro-AP majority at SLHS.
>
> Students who score a 4 or 5 on AP Art History earn
> EIGHT credits at UVA. Didn't someone earlier today
> say someone who earned a full IB Diploma got only
> 9 credits? Once the kids see that, how many will
> want IB?

Why not? Because the SB has as much as said so. Look at the history of Woodson. They wanted to have both programs, but the SB didn't want to pay for it. If you're going to have enough AP courses to satify the pro-AP people at SL, it's probably not that much of a stretch to put the whole program in place. Unlike Woodson, however, the SB won't allow SL to abaondon IB in favor of AP. For the foreseeable future, SL students who want to choose AP courses are screwed.

fluffy bunnies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> > For next year, dump AP Human Geography. Add
> > instead the two AP courses open to 10th-12th
> > graders, AP Art History (an art elective) and AP
> > World History (a core SOL course for tenth
> > graders).
>
> Errr, most people have complained that IB does not
> support scientists, engineers and mathematicians well
>
> What use is Art History to them? They're looking
> for rigorous science and math, not fluffy bunny
> courses.
>
> I don't think that's on the MIT engineering
> requirements list - how about AP Physics? or a
> proper roster of science, technology and math APs?

-------
The "use" has already been stated. I see two AP classes open to sophomores with no prerequisite at Oakton: AP Art History and AP World Civ. One satisfies the Virginia art requirement and can earn EIGHT credits at UVA. The other satisfies the Virgina World Civ SOL requirement.

If after all this settles down the SLHS community wants more AP then the following year additional courses would be added for juniors, including AP Calculus, AP English Composition, and AP US History.

Either way the current SLHS 10th and 11th graders are "protected" and keep their current IB courses.


ADVANCED PLACEMENT ART: ART HISTORY (915104)
Grades: 10, 11, 12 Credit: one/weighted +.5
Students develop an understanding of works of art within their historical context by examining issues such as politics, religion, patronage, gender, function, and ethnicity. The course also addresses visual analysis, aesthetics, and criticism. Students should demonstrate a high degree of commitment to academic work and possess academic skills needed to pursue a program designed to meet college standards. The course is designed to prepare students for the Advanced Placement Art History examination, for which college credit and/or placement may be awarded if a qualifying score is achieved. Objectives for Advanced Placement courses reflect the format and requirements in the Advanced Placement Course Description for Art published by the College Board. No prior experience in art studio or art history is assumed. All students are required to take the Advanced Placement Art History exam. This course requires a student materials fee as listed in FCPS Notice 5922.


ADVANCED PLACEMENT WORLD HISTORY (234004)
(234005) If taken in combination with Pre-AP English 10 (114039)
Grades: 10, 11, 12 Credit: one/weighted +.5
Advanced Placement World History is designed to develop greater understanding of the evolution of global processes and contacts, in interaction with different types of human societies. This understanding is advanced through a combination of selective factual knowledge and appropriate analytical skills. Focused primarily on the past thousand years of the global experience, the course builds on an understanding of cultural, institutional, and technological precedents that, along with geography, set the human stage prior to 1000. All students are required to take the Advanced Placement World History exam. This course may be used to satisfy the World History and Geography II requirement. Note: When taken as the World History and Geography 2 substitute course, the World History and Geography 2 SOL Test is required. The SOL Test is not given when AP World is taken as an elective. Students are required to take the Standards of Learning End of Course Test.

MIT Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In other words, SLPTA and the SB have no idea what
> they bought...kinda like a trunk auction...they
> are hoping for nice prize inside the trunk. All
> they knew was they did not want the trunk labeled
> "McNair" and were too frightened to consider a
> trunk labeled "Langley".

McNair is a title 1 school. South Lakes has one already, Herndon has one already, Westfields has one (McNair). It is in the best interest of all "at-risk" students to be a smaller percentage of any school. Putting more than one title 1 into any high school would be doing a disservice to those kids. It is a fact that they will do better as a smaller percentage of any high school. It would be the equivalent of planning to have another child when you barely have the resources to take care of the ones you already have.

As for anything else you have to say, you clearly have selective "hearing". You seem to keep going back to the idea that all SL cares about is supplementing it's IB program. All I hear is a lot of bitter insults with no sound or reasonable foundation. And I am sure that anyone reading sees that as well. Your world seems very narrow and for that I feel sorry for you (and your spouse and children). And that is as close as you are going to get to baiting me because I have better things to do with my time and energies than respond to your nonsense.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The "use" has already been stated. I see two AP
> classes open to sophomores with no prerequisite at
> Oakton: AP Art History and AP World Civ. One
> satisfies the Virginia art requirement and can
> earn EIGHT credits at UVA. The other satisfies the
> Virgina World Civ SOL requirement.
>

but why not start with the APs that most concern those children heading into science, technology and math for whom IB is viewed as problematic

AP art history is not going to change anyone's mind

The natural constituency for art history are already covered by the IB courses

Its the hard science folks who run the risk of being unprepared for challenging university courses.

SBS Wrote:

>
> Why not? Because the SB has as much as said so.
> Look at the history of Woodson. They wanted to
> have both programs, but the SB didn't want to pay
> for it. If you're going to have enough AP courses
> to satify the pro-AP people at SL, it's probably
> not that much of a stretch to put the whole
> program in place. Unlike Woodson, however, the SB
> won't allow SL to abaondon IB in favor of AP. For
> the foreseeable future, SL students who want to
> choose AP courses are screwed.

I have said this before and I will say it again.

If SL parents in favor of AP think that it will happen one day with influx of new students, they are dreaming.

IB is Stu's baby and he will do anything in this power to defend it. SL parents who think one day they will see daylight in South Lakes with AP need to first work towards removing Stu.

SBS Wrote:
> ... Unlike Woodson, however, the SB
> won't allow SL to abaondon IB in favor of AP. ...

Again, why not?

From "Rules for IB World Schools: Diploma Programme" © International Baccalaureate Organization 2006, 2007:
"Article 6: Review and evaluation procedures
6. Schoolsmust be open to visits from representatives of the IB Organization for reviews of a school’s implementation of the Diploma Programme. These visits can be made at any time with reasonable advance notice. The IB Organization will also conduct unannounced inspections of schools during periods of examinations in order to monitor compliance with the General regulations: Diploma Programme and the current handbook.
6.2 A general evaluation of a school’s implementation of the Diploma Programme normally occurs at five-year intervals. Schools are expected to conduct a self-study in preparation for this evaluation process.
6.3 Schools are expected to have a mechanism in place to respond to the recommendations and, where appropriate, matters to be addressed in the evaluation report."

SLHS has already been told to increase its number of IB Diploma Candidates. How much of this do you think the IBO will tolerate?

[I've already been accused of being on the College Board payroll. If I stop posting will someone claim the IBO paid me off?]

c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> McNair is a title 1 school. South Lakes has one
> already, Herndon has one already, Westfields has
> one (McNair). It is in the best interest of all
> "at-risk" students to be a smaller percentage of
> any school. Putting more than one title 1 into
> any high school would be doing a disservice to
> those kids. It is a fact that they will do better
> as a smaller percentage of any high school. It
> would be the equivalent of planning to have
> another child when you barely have the resources
> to take care of the ones you already have.
>
> As for anything else you have to say, you clearly
> have selective "hearing". You seem to keep going
> back to the idea that all SL cares about is
> supplementing it's IB program. All I hear is a
> lot of bitter insults with no sound or reasonable
> foundation. And I am sure that anyone reading
> sees that as well. Your world seems very narrow
> and for that I feel sorry for you (and your spouse
> and children). And that is as close as you are
> going to get to baiting me because I have better
> things to do with my time and energies than
> respond to your nonsense.


You are a racist, elist fool. You have nothing to base your argument on. Has there ever been a study to support your assertion "Putting more than one title 1 into any high school would be doing a disservice to those kids. It is a fact that they will do better as a smaller percentage of any high school." For all you know, putting them together allows resources to better focused on their needs. In reality, they scare you and SLPTSA wants to bury them statistically. You are afraid that these kids hurt your kids....the very fear you impose on opponents to RD.

Finally, is there any true parent of an ESOL or FRM student who has weighed in on this question. I suspect none have...this whole exercise is an exercise in white liberal democratic gerrymandering a) to keep the ESOL/FRM families in the minority; and b) to narrow gaps in SOL/SAT scores in the county, which only relates to prestige. What are farce.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SBS Wrote:
> > ... Unlike Woodson, however, the SB
> > won't allow SL to abaondon IB in favor of AP.
> ...
>
> Again, why not?
>

You'll have to ask the SB that question. I can't answer for them. I suppose, in short, it's because Stu says so.

c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT Grad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In other words, SLPTA and the SB have no idea
> what
> > they bought...kinda like a trunk auction...they
> > are hoping for nice prize inside the trunk.
> All
> > they knew was they did not want the trunk
> labeled
> > "McNair" and were too frightened to consider a
> > trunk labeled "Langley".
>
> McNair is a title 1 school. South Lakes has one
> already, Herndon has one already, Westfields has
> one (McNair). It is in the best interest of all
> "at-risk" students to be a smaller percentage of
> any school. Putting more than one title 1 into
> any high school would be doing a disservice to
> those kids. It is a fact that they will do better
> as a smaller percentage of any high school. It
> would be the equivalent of planning to have
> another child when you barely have the resources
> to take care of the ones you already have.
>
> As for anything else you have to say, you clearly
> have selective "hearing". You seem to keep going
> back to the idea that all SL cares about is
> supplementing it's IB program. All I hear is a
> lot of bitter insults with no sound or reasonable
> foundation. And I am sure that anyone reading
> sees that as well. Your world seems very narrow
> and for that I feel sorry for you (and your spouse
> and children). And that is as close as you are
> going to get to baiting me because I have better
> things to do with my time and energies than
> respond to your nonsense.

Speaking of elementary schools, with the new Coppermine school coming up next year, does anybody know if this new school will be a title one school or not? That's the thing..how does fcps determine oh that school should be a title one school?

fluffy bunnies Wrote:
> but why not start with the APs that most concern
> those children heading into science, technology
> and math for whom IB is viewed as problematic
>
> AP art history is not going to change anyone's
> mind
>
> The natural constituency for art history are
> already covered by the IB courses
>
> Its the hard science folks who run the risk of
> being unprepared for challenging university
> courses.

Current SLHS sophomores and juniors are in an IB school. [Sorry, fluffy. If you want to take AP science next year you'll need to pupil place to an AP school.] Current ninth graders can still change to an AP track if SLHS will adjust its curriculum.

In a school system with somewhat constrained resources, such as FCPS, no high school, not even huge Robinson, can support both IB HL Chemistry and AP Chemistry; both IB HL Physics and AP Physics; both IB HL Biology and AP Biology.

Take a look at the Robinson course selection guide for next year, which is available online. Pages 30-31 list the science courses - NO AP. This is NOT because Robinson has no "children heading into science, technology and math" but rather because at an IB school the IB curriculum must predominate. They must maintain "a balance of subjects on offer in the school as well as an appropriate student schedule that provides for student access to the full [IB] diploma."

Since FCPS will not support any more high school magnets, why not follow the model of the Lamar IB Academy in McAllen TX? Convert IB into an Academy programme housed in the excess space at South Lakes and have the remainder of the school revert to AP.

MIT Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > McNair is a title 1 school. South Lakes has
> one
> > already, Herndon has one already, Westfields
> has
> > one (McNair). It is in the best interest of
> all
> > "at-risk" students to be a smaller percentage
> of
> > any school. Putting more than one title 1 into
> > any high school would be doing a disservice to
> > those kids. It is a fact that they will do
> better
> > as a smaller percentage of any high school. It
> > would be the equivalent of planning to have
> > another child when you barely have the
> resources
> > to take care of the ones you already have.
> >
> > As for anything else you have to say, you
> clearly
> > have selective "hearing". You seem to keep
> going
> > back to the idea that all SL cares about is
> > supplementing it's IB program. All I hear is a
> > lot of bitter insults with no sound or
> reasonable
> > foundation. And I am sure that anyone reading
> > sees that as well. Your world seems very
> narrow
> > and for that I feel sorry for you (and your
> spouse
> > and children). And that is as close as you are
> > going to get to baiting me because I have
> better
> > things to do with my time and energies than
> > respond to your nonsense.
>
>
> You are a racist, elist fool. You have nothing to
> base your argument on. Has there ever been a
> study to support your assertion "Putting more than
> one title 1 into any high school would be doing a
> disservice to those kids. It is a fact that they
> will do better as a smaller percentage of any high
> school." For all you know, putting them together
> allows resources to better focused on their needs.
> In reality, they scare you and SLPTSA wants to
> bury them statistically. You are afraid that
> these kids hurt your kids....the very fear you
> impose on opponents to RD.
>
> Finally, is there any true parent of an ESOL or
> FRM student who has weighed in on this question.
> I suspect none have...this whole exercise is an
> exercise in white liberal democratic
> gerrymandering a) to keep the ESOL/FRM families in
> the minority; and b) to narrow gaps in SOL/SAT
> scores in the county, which only relates to
> prestige. What are farce.


I think that some posters want to have it both ways. They say that black kids in Richmond and elsewhere do better on tests because they comprise the whole school, and it's easier to teach when all students are more or less equal, as opposed to Dogwood and other low-performing Reston schools where there is more of a mix. Then they say that having too many disadvantaged kids in one school isn't good. Sorry, you can't make excuses both ways. Face it, Stu sucks as a SB member because the schools in Stu's district are low-performing when compared to other schools, and you can't use race, class, FRM, or ESOL as excuses. (remember Stuart). I'm not blaming the kids or their families (although in some cases the families might be part of the challenge, but I don't think that's special to Reston). I don't think that Stu or FCPS is doing their job. Wake up Reston and stop using psycho-babble about what's best for at-risk kids.

fluffy bunnies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> > The "use" has already been stated. I see two AP
> > classes open to sophomores with no prerequisite at
> > Oakton: AP Art History and AP World Civ. One
> > satisfies the Virginia art requirement and can
> > earn EIGHT credits at UVA. The other satisfies the
> > Virgina World Civ SOL requirement.
> >
------------
> AP art history is not going to change anyone's mind
>
> The natural constituency for art history are
> already covered by the IB courses
>
-----------

In a quick glance at a UVA, W&M, GMU, and VA Tech, all give credit for AP Art History. I'm not seeing any credit for IB art HISTORY, only for art STUDIO.

AP* Wrote:
percentages of kids actually
> take some AP curriculum, which I guess by default,
> leaves the difference as kids not taking these
> more advanced courses.


You cannot just "subtract" the number of ap courses from the total population of the school, since AP courses are only offered to Juniors and Seniors (and 1 offered to Sophomores).

MIT, you have no idea of the educational background of other posters. I would wager that any intelligent person here over a certain age was probably an AP student if it existed when they were in high school. You have been reduced to hurling gratuitous insults, so whatever credence was initially put in your moniker has been blown and MIT has been sullied in the process.

If you can't contribute to productive conversation, get out of the way. Most posters here who purport to have all the answers are balanced by other intelligent posters who sometimes set the record straight, and they do it without insulting others.

MIT GRAD, Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I would like to point out that there is a big
> > range of ability in the GT classes. A number
> of
> > children struggle with math, while others
> pretty
> > much snooze through while they wait for Algebra
> to
> > happen in 7th grade.
> >
> > As for who is easier to teach, you should
> survey
> > the teachers. I should think a GT class of 30
> > fourth graders is a bit harder to teach than a
> > regular class of 24 fourth graders, but that's
> > just me.
>
> Still, a GT class is relatively homogeneous, as
> all children have a high IQ. Inner-city Richmond
> students are at the other end of the spectrum
> (poor, black, uneducated parents, welfare state
> products) yet they are similar, so also relatively
> homogeneous.
>
> Now look at a Reston grade-school class (many
> races and cultures, the entire range of income
> levels - from wealthy to welfare, many levels of
> intelligence, many levels of environmental support
> - and I would still bet it's easier to teach
> either at the upper or lower range but not a
> thoroughly mixed class.

While it was once true that all students in a GT class were above average, that is no longer the case. For many of the students in GT centers, no one knows if they are above average as they are not yet working above grade level or even performing at grade level. Many GT students need remedial classes and those classes are available at most of our GT centers. For these students, their 'gifts' have not yet "emerged", as the GT office says.

If it is so difficult to teach kids in one class with a wide variety of abilities, perhaps it is time to beginning grouping by ability to address the specific needs of the children. If Black students in Richmond can be taught, surely we can find a way to teach Black students in Fairfax County. But there must first be a commitment to do so, a commitment to do whatever it takes, and to put ideology aside to do it.

MIT Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > McNair is a title 1 school. South Lakes has
> one
> > already, Herndon has one already, Westfields
> has
> > one (McNair). It is in the best interest of
> all
> > "at-risk" students to be a smaller percentage
> of
> > any school. Putting more than one title 1 into
> > any high school would be doing a disservice to
> > those kids. It is a fact that they will do
> better
> > as a smaller percentage of any high school. It
> > would be the equivalent of planning to have
> > another child when you barely have the
> resources
> > to take care of the ones you already have.
> >
> > As for anything else you have to say, you
> clearly
> > have selective "hearing". You seem to keep
> going
> > back to the idea that all SL cares about is
> > supplementing it's IB program. All I hear is a
> > lot of bitter insults with no sound or
> reasonable
> > foundation. And I am sure that anyone reading
> > sees that as well. Your world seems very
> narrow
> > and for that I feel sorry for you (and your
> spouse
> > and children). And that is as close as you are
> > going to get to baiting me because I have
> better
> > things to do with my time and energies than
> > respond to your nonsense.
>
>
> You are a racist, elist fool. You have nothing to
> base your argument on. Has there ever been a
> study to support your assertion "Putting more than
> one title 1 into any high school would be doing a
> disservice to those kids. It is a fact that they
> will do better as a smaller percentage of any high
> school." For all you know, putting them together
> allows resources to better focused on their needs.
> In reality, they scare you and SLPTSA wants to
> bury them statistically. You are afraid that
> these kids hurt your kids....the very fear you
> impose on opponents to RD.
>
> Finally, is there any true parent of an ESOL or
> FRM student who has weighed in on this question.
> I suspect none have...this whole exercise is an
> exercise in white liberal democratic
> gerrymandering a) to keep the ESOL/FRM families in
> the minority; and b) to narrow gaps in SOL/SAT
> scores in the county, which only relates to
> prestige. What are farce.


(Lord, i said i wasn't going to do this... you got me MIT grad.) I already confessed that i live in subsidized housing. 95% of the people within a one block radius of me are FRM and/or ESOL. Scroll up genius. Page 250, I believe.

Peace out.

Max Wrote:
> [Mr. Butler] probably just wants to make sure
> the pupil being placed out of SL for the AP
> program can really do the program. I think this
> is totally acceptable. ...

That is not his job. I have known my children for a dozen years or more. I know how easily they they learned English, or any other language to which they have been exposed, even if it does not show up in their middle school transcript. I know in detail their areas of strength and weakness within the math curriculum. I know which one can't wait to get into dissection. I know which ones may love the history of art but have no interest or special ability in creating art themselves. Mr. Butler knows none of this, and quick review of my child's record won't tell him.

Forcing us to go in for an "interview" is an inconvenience at best. Others might well see it as intimidation or as worthless and even interfering bureaucracy.

Kiva Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT, you have no idea of the educational
> background of other posters. I would wager that
> any intelligent person here over a certain age was
> probably an AP student if it existed when they
> were in high school. You have been reduced to
> hurling gratuitous insults, so whatever credence
> was initially put in your moniker has been blown
> and MIT has been sullied in the process.
>
> If you can't contribute to productive
> conversation, get out of the way. Most posters
> here who purport to have all the answers are
> balanced by other intelligent posters who
> sometimes set the record straight, and they do it
> without insulting others.

Another non-answer to the questions/hypotheses I previously posted. Again, do a math model and tell us what you gain from the RD...1 extra IB diploma per year, 10 more kids in HL/year, and reducing the % of FRM/ESOL. More non-IB history/math/etc classes for what reason.

Again, this forum serves two purposes: information exchange and cathartic release. I feel great putting up rationale that the pro-RD weenies cannot refute with a decent counter. I feel great letting out my steam on the blog, rather than let it boil over.

And just who are you...you must have had 30 IDs by now. In fact, all of my ripostes have probably been in response to your chameleon like name changes. You can change you name, but you are just as unconvincing.

Pacify me...defang me...do me a math model...tell me exactly what you think will be different in the SL curriculum in 4 years...you know my theory...150 kids/year, 50 pupil place out, leaves 100 kids/year...10% do HL, one extra TOK, one extra diploma, etc etc. Come on...give it your best shot. What was the goal of the SLPTA with this exercise?

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think that some posters want to have it both
> ways. They say that black kids in Richmond and
> elsewhere do better on tests because they comprise
> the whole school, and it's easier to teach when
> all students are more or less equal, as opposed to
> Dogwood and other low-performing Reston schools
> where there is more of a mix. Then they say that
> having too many disadvantaged kids in one school
> isn't good. Sorry, you can't make excuses both
> ways. Face it, Stu sucks as a SB member because
> the schools in Stu's district are low-performing
> when compared to other schools, and you can't use
> race, class, FRM, or ESOL as excuses. (remember
> Stuart). I'm not blaming the kids or their
> families (although in some cases the families
> might be part of the challenge, but I don't think
> that's special to Reston). I don't think that Stu
> or FCPS is doing their job. Wake up Reston and
> stop using psycho-babble about what's best for
> at-risk kids.

Great post!

Yes, families can always be more supportive, but you are also correct that inner city Richmond and Newport News children do not have more supportive families than those in Reston. It's clear that some low income areas in Fairfax County have faced the problem of low performance and found much more successful methods to educate these children. Such methods are being used across the state of Virginia, as well as FCPS. So what makes Reston different? Why aren't Dogwood, Terraset, and McNair using the programs that have proven to work right here in Fairfax county, in schools with vary similar populations? Why aren't Reston parents asking those questions? The problems become painfully obvious by high school, when it is often too late to teach those children to read well and do math.

apcourses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP* Wrote:
> percentages of kids actually
> > take some AP curriculum, which I guess by
> default,
> > leaves the difference as kids not taking these
> > more advanced courses.
>
>
> You cannot just "subtract" the number of ap
> courses from the total population of the school,
> since AP courses are only offered to Juniors and
> Seniors (and 1 offered to Sophomores).


I think you might have missed my latest post. I agreed that the calculation should be done relative to the junior/senior population.

Which menas that roughly 50% of the kids at Chantilly and roughly 60% of the kids at Westfields take at least one AP course. So by default that leaves roughly 40 to 50% of the kids not taking any AP.

Which I guess means that these 40 to 50% of the families in these affected communities should not have an objection about moving to SL, based on the AP argument right?

c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> (Lord, i said i wasn't going to do this... you got
> me MIT grad.) I already confessed that i live in
> subsidized housing. 95% of the people within a
> one block radius of me are FRM and/or ESOL.
> Scroll up genius. Page 250, I believe.
>
> Peace out.

And how do non-subsidized housing kids help your kids? Do you really think your kids benefit from being excluded from McNair kids. Do you believe that there is a critical mass of ESOL/FRM kids that should not be exceeded.

Assuming you are telling the truth, I know you cannot speak for everyone in your housing, but tell me...do you really think your kids need to be surrounded by MORE kids from non-subsidized housing to succeed. If so, why...just what would 600 more kids do for your kids that the existing group does not do. What is the attraction in having more ESOL/FRM kids? M

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Max Wrote:
> > probably just wants to make sure
> > the pupil being placed out of SL for the AP
> > program can really do the program. I think
> this
> > is totally acceptable. ...
>
> That is not his job. I have known my children for
> a dozen years or more. I know how easily they they
> learned English, or any other language to which
> they have been exposed, even if it does not show
> up in their middle school transcript. I know in
> detail their areas of strength and weakness within
> the math curriculum. I know which one can't wait
> to get into dissection. I know which ones may love
> the history of art but have no interest or special
> ability in creating art themselves. Mr. Butler
> knows none of this, and quick review of my
> child's record won't tell him.
>
> Forcing us to go in for an "interview" is an
> inconvenience at best. Others might well see it as
> intimidation or as worthless and even interfering
> bureaucracy.

You might be surprised at how many principals so this and how often it works. Our local elementary school principal asked every parent of a GT student to meet with him before placing their child in a GT center. His goal was to talk them out of sending their child. Some parents refused to meet with him but most were afraid to do that.

There is NO way any principal can judge if a child will be successful in AP courses. Surely Bruce Butler isn't trying to convince parents that a child who isn't fit for AP classes will be more successful in IB program.

I suspect Bruce Butler wants to make it inconvenient enough for parents that some will withdraw their request for pupil placement, and he wants an opportunity to do a little PR for his school with the hope that he can convince parents to change their minds. But I don't believe that a sales pitch from the principal is part of the policy for pupil placement. As some parents did at my elementary school, parents can refuse the meeting with Bruce Butler, and continue to ask that he sign the form. I am sure that if they are persistent enough, calling frequently enough, they staff will grow weary will see that the form is signed. Bruce Butler and the staff will soon tire of the time it takes to speak with all these parents and the constant interruption of their many meetings. It's just a shame that parents have to jump threw such hoops to get the proper educational program for their child. But most parents will persist because the education of their children is so important to them.

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: me too (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2008 09:17AM


RD PARENT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since the school board has destroyed so many lives
> with the RD, now it is your turn to destroy them
> in their pocket book.
>
> Go to a private school and do not fill out the
> 2008 Virginia school census form and vote no on
> all school bonds.
>
> This is payback time for those 10 ass holes.
>
> See if they need us now?

Also, boycott the SOLs at Fox Mill and Floris. The SOLs have no bearing on your kid's future...it only reflects on the school.

DO NOT FILL OUT CENSUS FORM.

DO NOT FILL OUT CENSUS FORM.

CUT OFF THEIR MONEY.



On Saturday, March 1, the 2008 Virginia School Census forms were mailed to all households
in Fairfax. For all persons counted who reside in Fairfax County and the City of Fairfax
with birth dates on or between January 1, 1989 and December 31, 2007, Fairfax County Public
Schools will receive approximately $3,000 back in state sales tax dollars per child.

DO NOT LET THEM BUILD GATEHOUSE 2 AND NO MIDDLE SCHOOL FOR SOUTH COUNTY

AP* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> apcourses Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > AP* Wrote:
> > percentages of kids actually
> > > take some AP curriculum, which I guess by
> > default,
> > > leaves the difference as kids not taking
> these
> > > more advanced courses.
> >
> >
> > You cannot just "subtract" the number of ap
> > courses from the total population of the
> school,
> > since AP courses are only offered to Juniors
> and
> > Seniors (and 1 offered to Sophomores).
>
>
> I think you might have missed my latest post. I
> agreed that the calculation should be done
> relative to the junior/senior population.
>
> Which menas that roughly 50% of the kids at
> Chantilly and roughly 60% of the kids at
> Westfields take at least one AP course. So by
> default that leaves roughly 40 to 50% of the kids
> not taking any AP.
>
> Which I guess means that these 40 to 50% of the
> families in these affected communities should not
> have an objection about moving to SL, based on the
> AP argument right?

Perhaps. Are those the students who South Lakes was hoping to attract? More General ed students?

I agree that those are the students who are most likely to come.

(BTW, your percentages are way off. Most college bound students take at least one or two AP tests, and 80 to 90% of the students at the high schools you mentioned attend college.)

AP* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you might have missed my latest post. I
> agreed that the calculation should be done
> relative to the junior/senior population.
>
> Which menas that roughly 50% of the kids at
> Chantilly and roughly 60% of the kids at
> Westfields take at least one AP course. So by
> default that leaves roughly 40 to 50% of the kids
> not taking any AP.
>
> Which I guess means that these 40 to 50% of the
> families in these affected communities should not
> have an objection about moving to SL, based on the
> AP argument right?

This brings up a related question. Assuming that some group of kids are not suited for either AP or IB, they still get to choose elective courses. How does the list of electives they can choose from compare at SL vs. the AP schools?

If the two (SL/non-SL) offer similar lists of choices, assuming they have no siblings at another school, then these students don't have strong grounds to request pupil-placing. But if that's the case, it also invalidates one of the SB's reasons for doing the RD in the first place, i.e. improving choices at SL.

If the list of electives is smaller at SL, then they have as much cause to pupil-place as anyone else. In fact, pupil-placing has been done regularly for students who wanted a class that was not offered at their base school.

Kiva Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MIT, you have no idea of the educational
> background of other posters. I would wager that
> any intelligent person here over a certain age was
> probably an AP student if it existed when they
> were in high school. You have been reduced to
> hurling gratuitous insults, so whatever credence
> was initially put in your moniker has been blown
> and MIT has been sullied in the process.
>
> If you can't contribute to productive
> conversation, get out of the way. Most posters
> here who purport to have all the answers are
> balanced by other intelligent posters who
> sometimes set the record straight, and they do it
> without insulting others.


Kiva, are you joking? MIT grad is asking some really good questions and bringing up some really good points. I think he/she has hit the nail on the head and you don't like it. So, you decide to just be insulted rather than respond back with facts? Where is the data--any data--that says keeping Title 1 kids in small groups is the best way to go? Your opinion means nothing here--please respond only with factual data! Cite something!
I'm married to an engineer and I see that engineer reasoning at work in MIT's response. I didn't hear one person at any public hearing who said they were from SL and were ESOL or FRM--not one. Maybe I missed them??

MIT grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fiona Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ok can i just ask this why are you against
> having
> > your kids go to south lakes im not talking
> about
> > blah blah blah long route blah blah blah IB
>
> > ( I can understand thats a big deal
> > but besides that what else? )
> >
> > do you think its a bad school because of the
> kids
> > in it ? are you afraid they are violent, gang
> > members, drama queen + kings
> >
> >
> > I just want to know why
>
> Fiona Fiona Fiona
>
> What is this blah blah blah in your note. You
> both acknowledge and dismiss valid reasons for not
> wanting to go the damn school. Each family has
> their own criteria...here is mine: IB IB IB IB IB.
> Actually, my criteria is no-AP, no-AP, no-AP.
>
> If SL had a "full" AP curriculum (sciences, math
> and other core subjects), I would send my kids
> there. For me the commute is shorter. I am
> willing to believe all the boosters who say the
> school is great. But I do not believe in IB.
> Read my earlier posts so many pages ago that
> compare AP and IB. I think IB is great for some,
> adequate for others. But it is not acceptable to
> me. IB should be a magnet or should not be
> offered.
>
> Now, there are some, like the poor folks from
> Navy. Fiona, just where do you
> live...roughly...not street address...just give a
> neighborhood. I am sure it is within 5 miles of
> SL...probably within 2 miles. Wouldn't it be a
> pain for you to send your kids to Chantilly.
> Wouldn't you just hate it. The fundamental lack
> of empathy of this point is stupefying. The only
> hope for you is that you, like most others on this
> blog, just use the blog to be provocative, to be
> entertained, and to jerk folks around. No one can
> really be so crass, so self-centered, so ignorant
> as not to be able to give these poor folks their
> due.
>
> Come on Fiona (or whoever you are). Try really
> really hard to be intelligent. The best thing you
> can say is "I am really sorry you folks are put in
> the awkward position of being sent from your home
> schools to a school you do not wish to be at. I
> wish you the best and pray that you determine what
> is best for you and your family. If you do come
> to SL, I will stand next to you as you express
> your right to advocate for a change in SL
> curriculum, and to fight for what you think is
> best for your families. I truly am sorry for your
> natural and understandable anguish." Can you say
> that with a clear heart? If not, do you have a
> counselor, psychiatrist, minister or rabbi to talk
> to. Ask them "Why are these people so angry?"
> Maybe a neutral party who you trust can help you
> build your EQ (emotional IQ). Or maybe you can
> post more dumb ass questions to get a pissed off
> response from someone because posting on this blog
> is such good sport.



_________________________________________________________


Ok first of all im not as dumb as you think I am
I take ALL Honers & Ive been recommended for all Pre-IB
classes next year and honest i dint want to piss anyone one of if you reread my message i just wanted to know why because im in the 9th grade so next year i will have to face some of your kids. If you put yourself in our shoes youll see how it feels when people think your school sucks kids take that personally. Dont taake your anger out on me.

Any ways to tell the truth from my perspective i dislike IB its a lot to do for a high school credit i dont want to do all that extra work. If i had a choice would pick

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Max Wrote:
> > > probably just wants to make sure
> > > the pupil being placed out of SL for the AP
> > > program can really do the program. I think
> > this
> > > is totally acceptable. ...
> >
> > That is not his job. I have known my children
> for
> > a dozen years or more. I know how easily they
> they
> > learned English, or any other language to which
> > they have been exposed, even if it does not
> show
> > up in their middle school transcript. I know in
> > detail their areas of strength and weakness
> within
> > the math curriculum. I know which one can't
> wait
> > to get into dissection. I know which ones may
> love
> > the history of art but have no interest or
> special
> > ability in creating art themselves. Mr. Butler
> > knows none of this, and quick review of my
> > child's record won't tell him.
> >
> > Forcing us to go in for an "interview" is an
> > inconvenience at best. Others might well see it
> as
> > intimidation or as worthless and even
> interfering
> > bureaucracy.
>
> You might be surprised at how many principals so
> this and how often it works. Our local elementary
> school principal asked every parent of a GT
> student to meet with him before placing their
> child in a GT center. His goal was to talk them
> out of sending their child. Some parents refused
> to meet with him but most were afraid to do that.
>
>
> There is NO way any principal can judge if a child
> will be successful in AP courses. Surely Bruce
> Butler isn't trying to convince parents that a
> child who isn't fit for AP classes will be more
> successful in IB program.
>
> I suspect Bruce Butler wants to make it
> inconvenient enough for parents that some will
> withdraw their request for pupil placement, and he
> wants an opportunity to do a little PR for his
> school with the hope that he can convince parents
> to change their minds. But I don't believe that a
> sales pitch from the principal is part of the
> policy for pupil placement. As some parents did
> at my elementary school, parents can refuse the
> meeting with Bruce Butler, and continue to ask
> that he sign the form. I am sure that if they are
> persistent enough, calling frequently enough, they
> staff will grow weary will see that the form is
> signed. Bruce Butler and the staff will soon tire
> of the time it takes to speak with all these
> parents and the constant interruption of their
> many meetings. It's just a shame that parents
> have to jump threw such hoops to get the proper
> educational program for their child. But most
> parents will persist because the education of
> their children is so important to them.

Maybe it is inconvenient, maybe not. Don't know.

But it might also be a potential fountation of information right from the source. Maybe some of the people have not gotten the full story, and maybe some ar going by information published by others, some of which may be accurate, and some that may not be. If the parents ar truly interested in what's the best for their kids, why not invest another few minutes of time, on top of the hours that many of us have already spent on this issue so far. What's the harm?

At the end of time, if the parents disagree or wish to pursue a different course of action, Butler is not going to stop them. What's the harm in being just a little bit open minded with respect to this?

Baffled Wrote:
> I was just thinking how ridiculous the new SL
> district would look like on the map with the
> Floris area as the end bump. The new Oak Hill HS
> should have been built as it was on the CIP in the
> out years. This would have solved a lot of
> problems and having the other communities such as
> McNair going to Herndon and Herndon giving up
> Aldrin to SL with the western portions of Langley
> going to Herndon. Injustice in this process will
> remain unforgotten for the years to come.
-
Baffled,

This still makes a lot of sense if FCPS is serious about the ideal high school size of 2,000 (with a realistic spread of 16500-2350).

Some places to start:

1. Cancel plans NOW for that new middle school in south county and save $2M.

2. Convert Westfield and Mt Vernon to secondary schools.

3. Take the mod off Chantilly.

4. Build the new Oak Hill as either a secondary or as a high school, however the numbers work out.

5. Match up all middle and high school boundaries.

6. Convert the "excess" middle school (Holmes, Whitman, and maybe Carson) to needed elementary schools.

7. Robinson and Lake Braddock are still "too big" so add Academies to them.

8. Marshall, soon to be renovated, only has a capacity of 1500, and not much space to add on. Can they build up instead? That wouldn't add parking or fields, so another solution may be better.

THEN get rid of the islands, the longest commutes, etc.

What's the harm? Wrote:
> Maybe it is inconvenient, maybe not. Don't know.
>
> ... why not invest another few minutes of time, on top of
> the hours that many of us have already spent on
> this issue so far. What's the harm?
>
Yes, it is inconvenient for a lot of us. Why waste his time and ours? Why make parents take time off work for this?

Don't forget the intimidation aspect. There ARE parents who NEVER want to talk to a principal!

Fiona Wrote:
> ... i dislike IB its a lot to do for a high school
> credit i dont want to do all that extra work. If i
> had a choice ...

You HAVE a choice. Go to:
http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/html/pupil_placement.html
and download the forms to pupil place to an AP school.

"Please note: FCPS Regulation 7103.5 (Effective 02-23-04) states, in part, that 'students enrolled in elective or designated special programs not located within their base school boundaries may be provided school bus transportation.' Regarding Advanced Placement (AP) and International Baccalaureate (IB) Pupil Placements, the document states that 'transportation is not provided, but students may ride existing school buses if they can safely access an existing bus stop and if space is available. An Exception To Ride form must be completed by the parents or guardian and approved annually by transportation services.' ”

MIT Grad Wrote:
> .. I feel great
> putting up rationale that the pro-RD weenies
> cannot refute with a decent counter. ...
>
> And just who are you...you must have had 30 IDs by
> now. In fact, all of my ripostes have probably
> been in response to your chameleon like name
> changes. You can change you name, but you are
> just as unconvincing.
>
> ... What was the goal of the SLPTA with
> this exercise?

---------
I am confused. Since we have had a bit of a minor argument today are you claiming that I am pro-RD?

[All my fellow forum readers on both sides of the aisle are welcome to join me in a bit of laughter.]