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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:59PM

navy parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't need to remind anyone here that the
> Langley folks have a huge incentive for this RD to
> work and to avoid scrutiny of why Langley was
> excluded from the scope of the study.


This is part of what has been very frustrating with this process. If our SB could just show true representation and tell their constituents like they told those RDed families to "suck it up" and do what they tell us to do, why couldn't Jane be firm with her constituents and say Langley should be included in the study. Then there would be a fair shift westward all around the western county high schools balancing all including SL to have more students. If Madison is now at capacity, Madison should have been included. After all, why was the boundary study called "Western County boundary study"? ALL of the western county high schools should have been included, period. No wonder why CAPS was formed to fight back and be the watchdog of how our SB conduct with their districts.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: completely unnecessary ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:27PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> navy parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
ALL of the western county high
> schools should have been included, period. No
> wonder why CAPS was formed to fight back and be
> the watchdog of how our SB conduct with their
> districts.


actually NONE of the western county high schools should have been included - the whole thing was unnecessary - widening the net wouldn't have made it any saner, just pitted yet more communities against each other!

RD should have been the last option rather than the first

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:42PM

Ever since Bruce has taken over South Lakes has even declined further. Not sure what the Reston folks are praising Bruce about?

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/va/reston/south-lakes/

projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/va/reston/south-lakes/

2005 Rank - 387
2006 Rank - 625
2007 Rank - 800

At this rate in a couple of years South Lakes will be the worst school in the entire US!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:45PM

Aww come on now.

"At this rate in a couple of years South Lakes will be the worst school in the entire US!!"

South Lakes is a good school already. The challenge index is a bogus measure that doesn't tell you much about the performance of an individual school...it just says ratio of AP/IB tests to test-takers.

South Lakes would be expected to do a lot better on this index if they converted to AP. The schools that do the best in FCPS are AP schools.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:48PM

completely unnecessary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > navy parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> ALL of the western county high
> > schools should have been included, period. No
> > wonder why CAPS was formed to fight back and be
> > the watchdog of how our SB conduct with their
> > districts.
>
>
> actually NONE of the western county high schools
> should have been included - the whole thing was
> unnecessary - widening the net wouldn't have made
> it any saner, just pitted yet more communities
> against each other!
>
> RD should have been the last option rather than
> the first


Right I agree, but I was just saying since the sb asked the staff to do a boundary study, then they should have included all the western county high schools not just selected high schools and targeted certain communities to go to SL. What is more in an earlier post about TJ and how Jane started a task force to study TJ last year, why couldn't the sb use this fashion to adopt a task force to study SL instead of using RD as the only measure to solve SL's underenrollment? ?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: completely unnecessary ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:58PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
What is
> more in an earlier post about TJ and how Jane
> started a task force to study TJ last year, why
> couldn't the sb use this fashion to adopt a task
> force to study SL instead of using RD as the only
> measure to solve SL's underenrollment? ?


They could have done, and should have done - but that would have asked too many difficult questions

So they hid the tricky issues and picked Tisdalt to run it as an RD

And the rest is history

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:18PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ever since Bruce has taken over South Lakes has
> even declined further. Not sure what the Reston
> folks are praising Bruce about?
>
> http://projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/
> va/reston/south-lakes/
>
> projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/va/res
> ton/south-lakes/
>
> 2005 Rank - 387
> 2006 Rank - 625
> 2007 Rank - 800
>
> At this rate in a couple of years South Lakes will
> be the worst school in the entire US!!

We've beaten up on everything and everyone else. Now let's beat up on someone new...that by most accounts is doing a good job. Pathetic.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: RD PARENT ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:22PM

IS THIS THE SCHOOL THAT THE SB WANTS TO REDISTRICT STUDENTS INTO?

DOES THE SB WANT TO FILL UP EMPTY SEATS OR ARE THEY TRYING TO FIX A FAILING SCHOOL THAT IS MAKING THEM LOOK BAD.



South Lakes in Reston, Va.


National Challenge Indexes
Year Rank Index Equity and Excellence % Subsidized Lunches %
2007 800 1.475 36.30 27.00
2006 625 1.612 28.00
2005 387 1.775 28.00

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Re: Pupil placement.
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:24PM

delete



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 11:14PM by Neen.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: straight talk ()
Date: March 08, 2008 07:53AM

>>OK. All I've seen is more of the 'back to basics' and 'get parents invovled' rhetoric, which I fear will leave the bottom 20-30% of students in the dust. On the other hand the other 70-80% will probably excel.

So the logic here is because these programs won't work for 100% of the students, we should instead maintain the staus quo which is failing 70% of the students in some schools????

This my friends represents the flawed logic of our SB and teachers unions.
Our maybe it is their socialistic philosophy.

You also gotta love FCPS position that IB and AP are separate but equal.
But they will choose who gets what, not families.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: March 08, 2008 09:18AM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting editorials...much to commend in each,
> even though there are quibbles (e.g. many schools
> have empty seats now...moving kids around doesn't
> reduce the number of empty seats in the school
> system as a whole...)
>
> The Examiner raised an interesting question about
> how close SLHS was to missing NCLB benchmarks,
> which would allow students to then request
> placement at other schools. Does anybody have the
> facts about this? Stu would sell his own
> plow-story-telling father before he'd let that
> happen to South Lakes.
>
> (I thought it was an interesting choice of story.
> Why doesn't the guy just get his own plow, instead
> of asking for his neighbor's kids erm plow?)

Could you please quote the portion of the Examiner editorial that spoke about "how close SL came to missing NCLB benchmarks? I read the same editorial and found no reference to that, only innuendo that it might happen in future, not backed up by any stats or facts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2008 10:08AM by SLVerity.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 08, 2008 09:35AM

straight talk Wrote:
> So the logic here is because these programs won't
> work for 100% of the students, we should instead
> maintain the staus quo which is failing 70% of the
> students in some schools????
>
> This my friends represents the flawed logic of our
> SB and teachers unions.
> Our maybe it is their socialistic philosophy.

So the conservative position that 30-40% of kids can just go to hell is better, how, exactly?

> You also gotta love FCPS position that IB and AP
> are separate but equal.
> But they will choose who gets what, not families.

Uh, I said earlier I disagreed with that position.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: CarWash ()
Date: March 08, 2008 11:12AM

So how is that car wash going?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 11:51AM

Beating up: So according to you, every measure of school performance is baseless!!. SLHS does not offer its students the AP courses that drive scores and success. Unless SL admits the areas where it is short how can it improve. Using the IB excuse to not offer the AP courses that kids need to succeed in college, proves the SLHS, Bruce and SB is not serious in wanting to improve the school. They just want warm bodies to cover up their failures and lack of drive to challenge themselves to achieve bottom line results. Saying IB is good enough is like giving just swimming lessions to a athelete that is going to compete in a track race. The rules set by college admissions in US are clear. One SLHS cannot change the rules across US. When you enter a race, you have to play by the rules. SAT scores, AP scores, GPA matter and they determine aid and entry to top colleges. Showing couple of cases where IB students got into top colleges does not change the reality for 99% of the cases where AP is the standard. Langley, Madison, McLean all face up to the AP challenge. The SB and Bruce allowed SLHS to hide and relax behind the mandate to preserve IB for 5 years at SLHS, thereby ensuring that it will not attract families serious about acadamics. It also shows that the Bruce and SLHS is not looking to improve education at SLHS but just want to window dress their scores.


Beating up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ever since Bruce has taken over South Lakes has
> > even declined further. Not sure what the Reston
> > folks are praising Bruce about?
> >
> >
> http://projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/
>
> > va/reston/south-lakes/
> >
> >
> projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/va/res
> > ton/south-lakes/
> >
> > 2005 Rank - 387
> > 2006 Rank - 625
> > 2007 Rank - 800
> >
> > At this rate in a couple of years South Lakes
> will
> > be the worst school in the entire US!!
>
> We've beaten up on everything and everyone else.
> Now let's beat up on someone new...that by most
> accounts is doing a good job. Pathetic.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: straight talk ()
Date: March 08, 2008 12:38PM

>So the conservative position that 30-40% of kids can just go to hell is better, how, exactly?

No, the postition is, why wait to help some people because you can't help them all at once.

You prefer letting 70-80% go to hell instead!

I don't see how teaching the basics using proven methods sends any child to hell.
Well meaning, but ineffective programming has already doomed many of our children.

I guess you are also implying that staight talk is conservative value and not a quality of liberals?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 08, 2008 12:47PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beating up: So according to you, every measure of
> school performance is baseless!!. SLHS does not
> offer its students the AP courses that drive
> scores and success. Unless SL admits the areas
> where it is short how can it improve. Using the IB
> excuse to not offer the AP courses that kids need
> to succeed in college, proves the SLHS, Bruce and
> SB is not serious in wanting to improve the
> school. They just want warm bodies to cover up
> their failures and lack of drive to challenge
> themselves to achieve bottom line results. Saying
> IB is good enough is like giving just swimming
> lessions to a athelete that is going to compete in
> a track race. The rules set by college admissions
> in US are clear. One SLHS cannot change the rules
> across US. When you enter a race, you have to play
> by the rules. SAT scores, AP scores, GPA matter
> and they determine aid and entry to top colleges.
> Showing couple of cases where IB students got into
> top colleges does not change the reality for 99%
> of the cases where AP is the standard. Langley,
> Madison, McLean all face up to the AP challenge.
> The SB and Bruce allowed SLHS to hide and relax
> behind the mandate to preserve IB for 5 years at
> SLHS, thereby ensuring that it will not attract
> families serious about acadamics. It also shows
> that the Bruce and SLHS is not looking to improve
> education at SLHS but just want to window dress
> their scores.
>
>
> Beating up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ever since Bruce has taken over South Lakes
> has
> > > even declined further. Not sure what the
> Reston
> > > folks are praising Bruce about?
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/
>
> >
> > > va/reston/south-lakes/
> > >
> > >
> >
> projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/va/res
> > > ton/south-lakes/
> > >
> > > 2005 Rank - 387
> > > 2006 Rank - 625
> > > 2007 Rank - 800
> > >
> > > At this rate in a couple of years South Lakes
> > will
> > > be the worst school in the entire US!!
> >
> > We've beaten up on everything and everyone else.
>
> > Now let's beat up on someone new...that by most
> > accounts is doing a good job. Pathetic.


Whether SL is AP or IB is not Butler's call, in case you haven't noticed.

And I am sure that Butler just got up one morning and decided that he wanted to go to SL and just be window dressing. I am absoutely sure that he went there to do a crappy job and not try to help and improve and to the right thing. I am sure that he is just there to collect a paycheck.

Maybe if you just went in and took a look and talked to him, like others have done, even if you disagee with him and/or the curriculum, maybe you could appreciate a little more what he is trying to do with what he has to work with.

Easy to pass judgement and be an armchair quarterback.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:07PM

So who is going to take the leadership position to restore the same AP courses to SLHS that Langley, TJ, etc all have? If not Bruce Butler then who? Not once in this entire RD process we heard anything about improving the quality of acadamics at SL. To make matters even worse at the end of RD, the SB passed a 12 - 0 vote to ensure AP does not get into SHLS!!. Maybe SLHS and SB is afraid that putting AP back in SLHS will deprive them of their last excuse to hide poor performance. - the current excuse if that IB does not do justice in score reporting - that is just an excuse, bcoz SLHS by design choose IB, and want it to cover up the lack of comparble acadamic offerings vis a vis other high performing schools such as Oakton, Langley and Madison. Any non biased reporting - Newsweek, washington post etc school indexes show the painful truth about the state of education at SLHS. I see the SB resolution to freeze the current state of affairs with IB for 5 years at SLHS as further proof that no one really wants any improvement at SLHS. The very fact that Bruce did not stand up and say that AP is needed in SLHS to restore parity with schools such as Langley etc, shows that he lacks the leadership to turn around SLHS. Basic fact - if you dont offer AP courses at SLHS, it is just not possible for SLHS to ever show better scores and results. This will in turn continue to drive families that are passionate about acadamics to seek other schools, further leading to decline of SLHS as a good majority of the bright students will avoid SLHS


Beating up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Beating up: So according to you, every measure
> of
> > school performance is baseless!!. SLHS does not
> > offer its students the AP courses that drive
> > scores and success. Unless SL admits the areas
> > where it is short how can it improve. Using the
> IB
> > excuse to not offer the AP courses that kids
> need
> > to succeed in college, proves the SLHS, Bruce
> and
> > SB is not serious in wanting to improve the
> > school. They just want warm bodies to cover up
> > their failures and lack of drive to challenge
> > themselves to achieve bottom line results.
> Saying
> > IB is good enough is like giving just swimming
> > lessions to a athelete that is going to compete
> in
> > a track race. The rules set by college
> admissions
> > in US are clear. One SLHS cannot change the
> rules
> > across US. When you enter a race, you have to
> play
> > by the rules. SAT scores, AP scores, GPA matter
> > and they determine aid and entry to top
> colleges.
> > Showing couple of cases where IB students got
> into
> > top colleges does not change the reality for
> 99%
> > of the cases where AP is the standard. Langley,
> > Madison, McLean all face up to the AP
> challenge.
> > The SB and Bruce allowed SLHS to hide and relax
> > behind the mandate to preserve IB for 5 years
> at
> > SLHS, thereby ensuring that it will not attract
> > families serious about acadamics. It also shows
> > that the Bruce and SLHS is not looking to
> improve
> > education at SLHS but just want to window dress
> > their scores.
> >
> >
> > Beating up Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Ever since Bruce has taken over South Lakes
> > has
> > > > even declined further. Not sure what the
> > Reston
> > > > folks are praising Bruce about?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/
>
> >
> > >
> > > > va/reston/south-lakes/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/va/res
> > > > ton/south-lakes/
> > > >
> > > > 2005 Rank - 387
> > > > 2006 Rank - 625
> > > > 2007 Rank - 800
> > > >
> > > > At this rate in a couple of years South
> Lakes
> > > will
> > > > be the worst school in the entire US!!
> > >
> > > We've beaten up on everything and everyone
> else.
> >
> > > Now let's beat up on someone new...that by
> most
> > > accounts is doing a good job. Pathetic.
>
>
> Whether SL is AP or IB is not Butler's call, in
> case you haven't noticed.
>
> And I am sure that Butler just got up one morning
> and decided that he wanted to go to SL and just be
> window dressing. I am absoutely sure that he went
> there to do a crappy job and not try to help and
> improve and to the right thing. I am sure that he
> is just there to collect a paycheck.
>
> Maybe if you just went in and took a look and
> talked to him, like others have done, even if you
> disagee with him and/or the curriculum, maybe you
> could appreciate a little more what he is trying
> to do with what he has to work with.
>
> Easy to pass judgement and be an armchair
> quarterback.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: DemsAgainstRD ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:19PM

straight talk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >So the conservative position that 30-40% of kids
> can just go to hell is better, how, exactly?
>
> No, the postition is, why wait to help some people
> because you can't help them all at once.
>
> You prefer letting 70-80% go to hell instead!
>
> I don't see how teaching the basics using proven
> methods sends any child to hell.
> Well meaning, but ineffective programming has
> already doomed many of our children.
>
> I guess you are also implying that staight talk is
> conservative value and not a quality of liberals?


Before we all go too far down the Democrats vs. Republicans/Liberals vs. Conservatives road, let me say one thing about politics and redistricting:

Many against this redistricting are Democrats. We are progressives. We are committed to diversity. And, most importantly to this conversation, we are committed to equal educational opportunity for all children. Not just in Fairfax County but everywhere.

This redistricting does not accomplish that. If enacted, it risks disguising educational inequality by importing relatively more successful students into a relatively less successful general ed program. It fails to address the needs of the neediest while forcing middle class families, many from minority communities, to attend a new school to drive academic performance.

This is not democratic. And many Democrats don't support it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:23PM

Well how do you explain the fact that the Democratic Party endorsed Stu Gibson and most of the SB members voting for this RD are democrats?

DemsAgainstRD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> straight talk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >So the conservative position that 30-40% of
> kids
> > can just go to hell is better, how, exactly?
> >
> > No, the postition is, why wait to help some
> people
> > because you can't help them all at once.
> >
> > You prefer letting 70-80% go to hell instead!
> >
> > I don't see how teaching the basics using
> proven
> > methods sends any child to hell.
> > Well meaning, but ineffective programming has
> > already doomed many of our children.
> >
> > I guess you are also implying that staight talk
> is
> > conservative value and not a quality of
> liberals?
>
>
> Before we all go too far down the Democrats vs.
> Republicans/Liberals vs. Conservatives road, let
> me say one thing about politics and
> redistricting:
>
> Many against this redistricting are Democrats. We
> are progressives. We are committed to diversity.
> And, most importantly to this conversation, we are
> committed to equal educational opportunity for all
> children. Not just in Fairfax County but
> everywhere.
>
> This redistricting does not accomplish that. If
> enacted, it risks disguising educational
> inequality by importing relatively more successful
> students into a relatively less successful general
> ed program. It fails to address the needs of the
> neediest while forcing middle class families, many
> from minority communities, to attend a new school
> to drive academic performance.
>
> This is not democratic. And many Democrats don't
> support it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating upe ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:38PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So who is going to take the leadership position t
> restore the same AP courses to SLHS that Langley,
> TJ, etc all have? If not Bruce Butler then who?
> Not once in this entire RD process we heard
> anything about improving the quality of acadamics
> at SL. To make matters even worse at the end of
> RD, the SB passed a 12 - 0 vote to ensure AP does
> not get into SHLS!!. Maybe SLHS and SB is afraid
> that putting AP back in SLHS will deprive them of
> their last excuse to hide poor performance. - the
> current excuse if that IB does not do justice in
> score reporting - that is just an excuse, bcoz
> SLHS by design choose IB, and want it to cover up
> the lack of comparble acadamic offerings vis a vis
> other high performing schools such as Oakton,
> Langley and Madison. Any non biased reporting -
> Newsweek, washington post etc school indexes show
> the painful truth about the state of education at
> SLHS. I see the SB resolution to freeze the
> current state of affairs with IB for 5 years at
> SLHS as further proof that no one really wants any
> improvement at SLHS. The very fact that Bruce did
> not stand up and say that AP is needed in SLHS to
> restore parity with schools such as Langley etc,
> shows that he lacks the leadership to turn around
> SLHS. Basic fact - if you dont offer AP courses at
> SLHS, it is just not possible for SLHS to ever
> show better scores and results. This will in turn
> continue to drive families that are passionate
> about acadamics to seek other schools, further
> leading to decline of SLHS as a good majority of
> the bright students will avoid SLHS
>
>
> Beating up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Beating up: So according to you, every
> measure
> > of
> > > school performance is baseless!!. SLHS does
> not
> > > offer its students the AP courses that drive
> > > scores and success. Unless SL admits the
> areas
> > > where it is short how can it improve. Using
> the
> > IB
> > > excuse to not offer the AP courses that kids
> > need
> > > to succeed in college, proves the SLHS, Bruce
> > and
> > > SB is not serious in wanting to improve the
> > > school. They just want warm bodies to cover
> up
> > > their failures and lack of drive to challenge
> > > themselves to achieve bottom line results.
> > Saying
> > > IB is good enough is like giving just
> swimming
> > > lessions to a athelete that is going to
> compete
> > in
> > > a track race. The rules set by college
> > admissions
> > > in US are clear. One SLHS cannot change the
> > rules
> > > across US. When you enter a race, you have to
> > play
> > > by the rules. SAT scores, AP scores, GPA
> matter
> > > and they determine aid and entry to top
> > colleges.
> > > Showing couple of cases where IB students got
> > into
> > > top colleges does not change the reality for
> > 99%
> > > of the cases where AP is the standard.
> Langley,
> > > Madison, McLean all face up to the AP
> > challenge.
> > > The SB and Bruce allowed SLHS to hide and
> relax
> > > behind the mandate to preserve IB for 5 years
> > at
> > > SLHS, thereby ensuring that it will not
> attract
> > > families serious about acadamics. It also
> shows
> > > that the Bruce and SLHS is not looking to
> > improve
> > > education at SLHS but just want to window
> dress
> > > their scores.
> > >
> > >
> > > Beating up Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Ever since Bruce has taken over South
> Lakes
> > > has
> > > > > even declined further. Not sure what the
> > > Reston
> > > > > folks are praising Bruce about?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > va/reston/south-lakes/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> projects.washingtonpost.com/challengeindex/va/res
> > > > > ton/south-lakes/
> > > > >
> > > > > 2005 Rank - 387
> > > > > 2006 Rank - 625
> > > > > 2007 Rank - 800
> > > > >
> > > > > At this rate in a couple of years South
> > Lakes
> > > > will
> > > > > be the worst school in the entire US!!
> > > >
> > > > We've beaten up on everything and everyone
> > else.
> > >
> > > > Now let's beat up on someone new...that by
> > most
> > > > accounts is doing a good job. Pathetic.
> >
> >
> > Whether SL is AP or IB is not Butler's call, in
> > case you haven't noticed.
> >
> > And I am sure that Butler just got up one
> morning
> > and decided that he wanted to go to SL and just
> be
> > window dressing. I am absoutely sure that he
> went
> > there to do a crappy job and not try to help
> and
> > improve and to the right thing. I am sure that
> he
> > is just there to collect a paycheck.
> >
> > Maybe if you just went in and took a look and
> > talked to him, like others have done, even if
> you
> > disagee with him and/or the curriculum, maybe
> you
> > could appreciate a little more what he is
> trying
> > to do with what he has to work with.
> >
> > Easy to pass judgement and be an armchair
> > quarterback.


Tell you what. You are so bright - you run for SB. You seem to have the solution then you can fire Butler. Ok?

In the mean time, leave him alone. He is doing a fine job. You are not happy with him, or IB or SL - pupil place, no problem.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WhatsThePoint? ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:41PM

Beating up Wrote:
> Maybe if you just went in and took a look and
> talked to him, like others have done, even if you
> disagee with him and/or the curriculum, maybe you
> could appreciate a little more what he is trying
> to do with what he has to work with.
>


Bruce may be the best guy in the world - how does that benefit RD families thrown into the lakes. If they attend SLHS with no AP at the end of 4 years their kids are going to be at a significant disadvantage to the kids at Oakton.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: DemsAgainstRD ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:46PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well how do you explain the fact that the
> Democratic Party endorsed Stu Gibson and most of
> the SB members voting for this RD are democrats?
>

How do YOU explain why some Democrats still support "The Surge", like Clinton, while others, like Barack Obama, do not.

When you think about it, the path to war followed a similar logic as the path to redistricting. First, we had a few specific reasons and then the list of criteria expanded when it was discovered that the earlier justification was difficult or impossible to support. When public sentiment began turning against the war, Republicans used "divide and conquer" strategies, disinformation campaigns through third parties and whisper campaigns to win another term. And when public sentiment turned overwhelmingly against the war, the President just repeated his mantra that he knew what was best for the country, that it was his authority as commander and chief to make those decisions and that he didn't listen to polls.

All eerily similar to the logic and justifications used by our School Board in pursuing this redistricting.

Of course, Democrats aren't going to abandon the party because we've got some dinosaurs on the School Board. But woe to those who support these ideas and run in future elections. Obama's appeal surprised many traditional party people. I hope the independent streak fueling his success in our area won't be lost on future Democratic candidates seeking the support of progressive Democrats in Northern Virginia.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:47PM

WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beating up Wrote:
> > Maybe if you just went in and took a look and
> > talked to him, like others have done, even if
> you
> > disagee with him and/or the curriculum, maybe
> you
> > could appreciate a little more what he is
> trying
> > to do with what he has to work with.
> >
>
>
> Bruce may be the best guy in the world - how does
> that benefit RD families thrown into the lakes. If
> they attend SLHS with no AP at the end of 4 years
> their kids are going to be at a significant
> disadvantage to the kids at Oakton.


I assume that by this you mean relative to college credits when they start? And is it just relative to Oakton, or Westfields and Chantilly and Herndon?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:50PM

Agreed. Great analogy. After this encounter with RD, I won't trust any politicians now. Its always the people who suffer.

DemsAgainstRD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well how do you explain the fact that the
> > Democratic Party endorsed Stu Gibson and most
> of
> > the SB members voting for this RD are
> democrats?
> >
>
> How do YOU explain why some Democrats still
> support "The Surge", like Clinton, while others,
> like Barack Obama, do not.
>
> When you think about it, the path to war followed
> a similar logic as the path to redistricting.
> First, we had a few specific reasons and then the
> list of criteria expanded when it was discovered
> that the earlier justification was difficult or
> impossible to support. When public sentiment
> began turning against the war, Republicans used
> "divide and conquer" strategies, disinformation
> campaigns through third parties and whisper
> campaigns to win another term. And when public
> sentiment turned overwhelmingly against the war,
> the President just repeated his mantra that he
> knew what was best for the country, that it was
> his authority as commander and chief to make those
> decisions and that he didn't listen to polls.
>
> All eerily similar to the logic and justifications
> used by our School Board in pursuing this
> redistricting.
>
> Of course, Democrats aren't going to abandon the
> party because we've got some dinosaurs on the
> School Board. But woe to those who support these
> ideas and run in future elections. Obama's appeal
> surprised many traditional party people. I hope
> the independent streak fueling his success in our
> area won't be lost on future Democratic candidates
> seeking the support of progressive Democrats in
> Northern Virginia.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WhatsThePoint? ()
Date: March 08, 2008 01:55PM

Yes. and relative to any other student anywhere. e.g. ALL Loudoun county HS offer AP. Not only college credits, it is much easier to get into good colleges with lots of AP on the resume, becuase it is widely recognized. I dont want my kid to be at a disadvantage to every one else, when he applies to colleges just because he was forced into SLHS.


Beating up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Beating up Wrote:
> > > Maybe if you just went in and took a look and
> > > talked to him, like others have done, even if
> > you
> > > disagee with him and/or the curriculum, maybe
> > you
> > > could appreciate a little more what he is
> > trying
> > > to do with what he has to work with.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Bruce may be the best guy in the world - how
> does
> > that benefit RD families thrown into the lakes.
> If
> > they attend SLHS with no AP at the end of 4
> years
> > their kids are going to be at a significant
> > disadvantage to the kids at Oakton.
>
>
> I assume that by this you mean relative to college
> credits when they start? And is it just relative
> to Oakton, or Westfields and Chantilly and
> Herndon?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: DemsAgainstRD ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:02PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed. Great analogy. After this encounter with
> RD, I won't trust any politicians now. Its always
> the people who suffer.
>

I'm glad you like the analogy and you share my frustration with this particular school board. But don't give up hope. We can support better candidates. And, even better, we can run.

If we got in a cab and we didn't like the way the driver was taking us to our destination--or they were taking us in the wrong direction!--we wouldn't go home. We'd get in another cab. Or we'd drive there on our own.

Now that there are PTA races underway, with state and federal legislative races soon to follow, there's a lot we can do to get rid of the old thinking and get some fresh and more representative faces.

So get someone to run. Or run yourself. For the PTA. For the HOA. For state legislature. The Board of Supervisors. Congress. Our best revenge against the autocrats who have been pushing the people around all these months, and those who supported them, is to replace them!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:07PM

WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. and relative to any other student anywhere.
> e.g. ALL Loudoun county HS offer AP. Not only
> college credits, it is much easier to get into
> good colleges with lots of AP on the resume,
> becuase it is widely recognized. I dont want my
> kid to be at a disadvantage to every one else,
> when he applies to colleges just because he was
> forced into SLHS.
>
>
> Beating up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Beating up Wrote:
> > > > Maybe if you just went in and took a look
> and
> > > > talked to him, like others have done, even
> if
> > > you
> > > > disagee with him and/or the curriculum,
> maybe
> > > you
> > > > could appreciate a little more what he is
> > > trying
> > > > to do with what he has to work with.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bruce may be the best guy in the world - how
> > does
> > > that benefit RD families thrown into the
> lakes.
> > If
> > > they attend SLHS with no AP at the end of 4
> > years
> > > their kids are going to be at a significant
> > > disadvantage to the kids at Oakton.
> >
> >
> > I assume that by this you mean relative to
> college
> > credits when they start? And is it just
> relative
> > to Oakton, or Westfields and Chantilly and
> > Herndon?

If you are talking about college credits, today, you may be right. If you are talking about the amount learned, I would argue to say that IB may be at least as rigorous, if not more so.

So, in this case, I would agree to say that an IP vs AP public discussion across the whole county may make sense.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:10PM

Beating upe Wrote:
>
> In the mean time, leave him alone. He is doing a
> fine job. You are not happy with him, or IB or SL
> - pupil place, no problem.

I would. The problem is FCPS is throwing roadblocks to pupil placement citing regulations and other illogical reasons. First they force RD, then they deny us transportation and then to top it all will not allow us to choose the school that is easiest to commute to in terms of traffic and location of parent's work place.
I cannot imagine how SB say they want the best for the kids when they are doing everything in their power to make life as difficult as legally possible for pupil placement kids.

The only option for parents who cannot pick and drop kids every day is to demand the same level of academic AP courses that other schools had before being forced into SL. So brace yourself. All the families that cannot pupil place or move out of SL, will start demanding the same equal access to AP courses that the rest of the adjoining schools have. Bruce and SB have forced humans beings into SLHS not just warm bodies as they think us to be.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WhatsThePoint? ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:32PM

Beating up Wrote:
>
> If you are talking about college credits, today,
> you may be right. If you are talking about the
> amount learned, I would argue to say that IB may
> be at least as rigorous, if not more so.
>
> So, in this case, I would agree to say that an IP
> vs AP public discussion across the whole county
> may make sense.


Cannot afford for a county wide discussion on IB, while my kid's future suffers at SLHS. I cannot also afford a house in any of the remaining Oakton areas. See how they took the only affordable areas left in Oakton HS and removed them from Oakton HS to SLHS!!!! I am convinced SB did not want the middle class areas of FM feeding into Oakton - I think they are trying to segregate the middle and the lower middle class folks at SLHS - They probably excluded langley and Madison for the same reason.

Based on my research Loudoun county offers good AP high schools and the houses there are affordable. That seems to be the best alternative now - also on surface it appears Loudoun's SB is not solely focused on race and class

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Road Blocks ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:39PM

Just how many of those road blocks did you encounter personally...be honest?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Redisricting ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:40PM

Yeah, Loudon is the answer. I have friends there who have been redistricted three times in as many years.

WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beating up Wrote:
> >
> > If you are talking about college credits,
> today,
> > you may be right. If you are talking about the
> > amount learned, I would argue to say that IB
> may
> > be at least as rigorous, if not more so.
> >
> > So, in this case, I would agree to say that an
> IP
> > vs AP public discussion across the whole county
> > may make sense.
>
>
> Cannot afford for a county wide discussion on IB,
> while my kid's future suffers at SLHS. I cannot
> also afford a house in any of the remaining Oakton
> areas. See how they took the only affordable areas
> left in Oakton HS and removed them from Oakton HS
> to SLHS!!!! I am convinced SB did not want the
> middle class areas of FM feeding into Oakton - I
> think they are trying to segregate the middle and
> the lower middle class folks at SLHS - They
> probably excluded langley and Madison for the same
> reason.
>
> Based on my research Loudoun county offers good
> AP high schools and the houses there are
> affordable. That seems to be the best alternative
> now - also on surface it appears Loudoun's SB is
> not solely focused on race and class

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:42PM

DemsAgainstRD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agreed. Great analogy. After this encounter
> with
> > RD, I won't trust any politicians now. Its
> always
> > the people who suffer.
> >
>
> I'm glad you like the analogy and you share my
> frustration with this particular school board.
> But don't give up hope. We can support better
> candidates. And, even better, we can run.
>
> If we got in a cab and we didn't like the way the
> driver was taking us to our destination--or they
> were taking us in the wrong direction!--we
> wouldn't go home. We'd get in another cab. Or
> we'd drive there on our own.
>
> Now that there are PTA races underway, with state
> and federal legislative races soon to follow,
> there's a lot we can do to get rid of the old
> thinking and get some fresh and more
> representative faces.
>
> So get someone to run. Or run yourself. For the
> PTA. For the HOA. For state legislature. The
> Board of Supervisors. Congress. Our best revenge
> against the autocrats who have been pushing the
> people around all these months, and those who
> supported them, is to replace them!


They are career politicians while we are the little guys. They cleverly did this after the elections, so we cannot do anything till 2011. They are also making pupil placement difficult so that they will force the people opposed to RD move out of the area. By 2011 there will be a new set of folks here who will vote them in again.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:53PM

WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beating up Wrote:
> >
> > If you are talking about college credits,
> today,
> > you may be right. If you are talking about the
> > amount learned, I would argue to say that IB
> may
> > be at least as rigorous, if not more so.
> >
> > So, in this case, I would agree to say that an
> IP
> > vs AP public discussion across the whole county
> > may make sense.
>
>
> Cannot afford for a county wide discussion on IB,
> while my kid's future suffers at SLHS. I cannot
> also afford a house in any of the remaining Oakton
> areas. See how they took the only affordable areas
> left in Oakton HS and removed them from Oakton HS
> to SLHS!!!! I am convinced SB did not want the
> middle class areas of FM feeding into Oakton - I
> think they are trying to segregate the middle and
> the lower middle class folks at SLHS - They
> probably excluded langley and Madison for the same
> reason.
>
> Based on my research Loudoun county offers good
> AP high schools and the houses there are
> affordable. That seems to be the best alternative
> now - also on surface it appears Loudoun's SB is
> not solely focused on race and class


Boy. I have read a lot of pap on this website. But, at some point, ya just gotta say "enough"...Bruce Butler impedes PP, blah, blah....SLHS excludes Langley and Madison rich kids, and excludes McNair less-advantaged kids....because SLHS is all-powerful and just wants warm bodies. And only a few great students get into good schools from SLHS, but the rest go to culinary school with no college credit and no future.

There has always been a dearth of cogent commentary on this website, but it has plummeted further, although the bleatings of the "wounded" are particularly woeful these days.

SLHS has had little power with the SB for years. Listen to Ridge Loux's remarks to the SB. SLHS still has little power, but it actually prevailed -- for a change-- by making a reasoned, consistent, and mature case. Have mercy and praise God that the democratic process works once in a while.

But we didn't have a thing to do with excluding Madison and Langley from the RD (many of us questioned why not, but also focused on what needed to happen to put our school on equal footing with the others in FFX County);

. we did the normal American parental thing in supporting our students, which resulted in having most of our 07 classes get accepted into fine (and many of the best) schools ---albeit with the "weight" of IB dragging them down. And we'll do that whether or not new people come, and we'll welcome anyone who does.

. We didn't wear colored shirts and embrace talking points that reflected baseless, hollow, veiled attacks on kids -- yes, kids -- in neighboring high schools.

. And we didn't quote Sun Tzu in the context of "wars" to be fought, while we blindly followed leaders with the skills of Ambrose Burnside into greater depths of futility and derision.

Stop the madness. Pupil place, move, or be constructive and make up your own mind without reciting the CAPS mantra.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WhatsThePoint? ()
Date: March 08, 2008 02:53PM

Frankly while I dont like being moved, I would not care so much if I got the same courses at the other school. I would not mind SLHS if they had the same AP courses as Oakton or Westfield or Herndon. Here not only I am being forced to move, they are also taking away AP as part of the deal - so all bad. In Loudoun - yes they are redistricted, but ALL their schools have the same AP courses, so its not as if you will significantly lose out by being moved. Say in our case if SLHS had AP and the student took a full load of AP and scored high on all, it would not have made any difference at college level, whether he got the AP from SLHS or Oakton. But in this case the Oakton student can have a full load of AP, while the student moved to SLHS will have none. The standard AP exam across all schools is the equalizer

Redisricting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, Loudon is the answer. I have friends there
> who have been redistricted three times in as many
> years.
>
> WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Beating up Wrote:
> > >
> > > If you are talking about college credits,
> > today,
> > > you may be right. If you are talking about
> the
> > > amount learned, I would argue to say that IB
> > may
> > > be at least as rigorous, if not more so.
> > >
> > > So, in this case, I would agree to say that
> an
> > IP
> > > vs AP public discussion across the whole
> county
> > > may make sense.
> >
> >
> > Cannot afford for a county wide discussion on
> IB,
> > while my kid's future suffers at SLHS. I cannot
> > also afford a house in any of the remaining
> Oakton
> > areas. See how they took the only affordable
> areas
> > left in Oakton HS and removed them from Oakton
> HS
> > to SLHS!!!! I am convinced SB did not want the
> > middle class areas of FM feeding into Oakton -
> I
> > think they are trying to segregate the middle
> and
> > the lower middle class folks at SLHS - They
> > probably excluded langley and Madison for the
> same
> > reason.
> >
> > Based on my research Loudoun county offers
> good
> > AP high schools and the houses there are
> > affordable. That seems to be the best
> alternative
> > now - also on surface it appears Loudoun's SB
> is
> > not solely focused on race and class

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WhatsThePoint? ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:02PM

Neither pupil placement or move is easy. Disrupts our whole family or uproots us from our houses. SB has forced us out of homes, and you expect us to quietly go!! How would you have felt if some one told you to pack up and move within 3 months without any fault of yours?

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Stop the madness. Pupil place, move, or be
> constructive and make up your own mind without
> reciting the CAPS mantra.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:12PM

Road Blocks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just how many of those road blocks did you
> encounter personally...be honest?


For a moment think you and your spouse have to go work in DC & Tysons area every day. Now you are told that you cannot choose to pupil place in a school that falls on your way to work, but "regulations" say you have to choose a school in the opposite direction.. There is no logical explaination for such decisions other than they want to force us into attending IB at SLHS. These "regulations" are also made by these same people who are putting entire communities in such a position in the first place.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:19PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsThePoint? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Beating up Wrote:
> > >
> > > If you are talking about college credits,
> > today,
> > > you may be right. If you are talking about
> the
> > > amount learned, I would argue to say that IB
> > may
> > > be at least as rigorous, if not more so.
> > >
> > > So, in this case, I would agree to say that
> an
> > IP
> > > vs AP public discussion across the whole
> county
> > > may make sense.
> >
> >
> > Cannot afford for a county wide discussion on
> IB,
> > while my kid's future suffers at SLHS. I cannot
> > also afford a house in any of the remaining
> Oakton
> > areas. See how they took the only affordable
> areas
> > left in Oakton HS and removed them from Oakton
> HS
> > to SLHS!!!! I am convinced SB did not want the
> > middle class areas of FM feeding into Oakton -
> I
> > think they are trying to segregate the middle
> and
> > the lower middle class folks at SLHS - They
> > probably excluded langley and Madison for the
> same
> > reason.
> >
> > Based on my research Loudoun county offers
> good
> > AP high schools and the houses there are
> > affordable. That seems to be the best
> alternative
> > now - also on surface it appears Loudoun's SB
> is
> > not solely focused on race and class
>
>
> Boy. I have read a lot of pap on this website.
> But, at some point, ya just gotta say
> "enough"...Bruce Butler impedes PP, blah,
> blah....SLHS excludes Langley and Madison rich
> kids, and excludes McNair less-advantaged
> kids....because SLHS is all-powerful and just
> wants warm bodies. And only a few great students
> get into good schools from SLHS, but the rest go
> to culinary school with no college credit and no
> future.
>
> There has always been a dearth of cogent
> commentary on this website, but it has plummeted
> further, although the bleatings of the "wounded"
> are particularly woeful these days.
>
> SLHS has had little power with the SB for years.
> Listen to Ridge Loux's remarks to the SB. SLHS
> still has little power, but it actually prevailed
> -- for a change-- by making a reasoned,
> consistent, and mature case. Have mercy and
> praise God that the democratic process works once
> in a while.
>
> But we didn't have a thing to do with excluding
> Madison and Langley from the RD (many of us
> questioned why not, but also focused on what
> needed to happen to put our school on equal
> footing with the others in FFX County);
>
> . we did the normal American parental thing in
> supporting our students, which resulted in having
> most of our 07 classes get accepted into fine (and
> many of the best) schools ---albeit with the
> "weight" of IB dragging them down. And we'll do
> that whether or not new people come, and we'll
> welcome anyone who does.
>
> . We didn't wear colored shirts and embrace
> talking points that reflected baseless, hollow,
> veiled attacks on kids -- yes, kids -- in
> neighboring high schools.
>
> . And we didn't quote Sun Tzu in the context of
> "wars" to be fought, while we blindly followed
> leaders with the skills of Ambrose Burnside into
> greater depths of futility and derision.
>
> Stop the madness. Pupil place, move, or be
> constructive and make up your own mind without
> reciting the CAPS mantra.


Amigo, well said - and thank you

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:26PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Road Blocks Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just how many of those road blocks did you
> > encounter personally...be honest?
>
>
> For a moment think you and your spouse have to go
> work in DC & Tysons area every day. Now you are
> told that you cannot choose to pupil place in a
> school that falls on your way to work, but
> "regulations" say you have to choose a school in
> the opposite direction.. There is no logical
> explaination for such decisions other than they
> want to force us into attending IB at SLHS. These
> "regulations" are also made by these same people
> who are putting entire communities in such a
> position in the first place.


Are these roadblocks truly facts or are these things "hearsay" about what "might" happen?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: stop the madness ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:42PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>We didn't ...
> . And we didn't ....


but you did start throwing around accusations of racism and classism at public meetings - and that included both SLHS teachers and your SB meeting


your accusation that the anti-RD community

"embrace talking points that reflected baseless, hollow, veiled attacks on kids -- yes, kids -- in neighboring high schools."

what drivel!

No-one ever attacked kids - people did attack the holier-than-thou attitude of the SLHS community, pointed out significant issues in the performance of the school (as documented by FCPS and VDOE) and criticized the decision to uproot them into an IB program they don't believe in.

It was SLHS community that involved kids into the town hall meetings, full of propaganda but not having read the FCPS and VDOE figures. No one ever attacked them, but they were thrown into adult discussions about the performance of their school without proper background to suitably emotional results.


> Stop the madness.

couldn't agree more - but I think we disagree on the madness

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:45PM

Has happened. You dont have to take my word for this. Call FCPS staff and ask them to explain the pupil placement rules. The FCPS staff is very helpful and courteous. Even the higher ups will talk to you nicely and explain the rules. ( The fcps staff is a complete contrast to the School Board. It is truely the fcps staff that is making our schools great - the SB is just a drag on the whole system) The regulations are made by SB are rigid as to where you can pupil place. Couple that rule with NOVA traffic and commutes, and you will realize that pupil placement is not a option for a lot of families - no transportation is provided and no flexibility as to which school you can place to.

Beating up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Road Blocks Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Just how many of those road blocks did you
> > > encounter personally...be honest?
> >
> >
> > For a moment think you and your spouse have to
> go
> > work in DC & Tysons area every day. Now you are
> > told that you cannot choose to pupil place in a
> > school that falls on your way to work, but
> > "regulations" say you have to choose a school
> in
> > the opposite direction.. There is no logical
> > explaination for such decisions other than they
> > want to force us into attending IB at SLHS.
> These
> > "regulations" are also made by these same
> people
> > who are putting entire communities in such a
> > position in the first place.
>
>
> Are these roadblocks truly facts or are these
> things "hearsay" about what "might" happen?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:47PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has happened. You dont have to take my word for
> this. Call FCPS staff and ask them to explain the
> pupil placement rules. The FCPS staff is very
> helpful and courteous. Even the higher ups will
> talk to you nicely and explain the rules. ( The
> fcps staff is a complete contrast to the School
> Board. It is truely the fcps staff that is making
> our schools great - the SB is just a drag on the
> whole system) The regulations are made by SB are
> rigid as to where you can pupil place. Couple that
> rule with NOVA traffic and commutes, and you will
> realize that pupil placement is not a option for a
> lot of families - no transportation is provided
> and no flexibility as to which school you can
> place to.
>
> Beating up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Road Blocks Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Just how many of those road blocks did you
> > > > encounter personally...be honest?
> > >
> > >
> > > For a moment think you and your spouse have
> to
> > go
> > > work in DC & Tysons area every day. Now you
> are
> > > told that you cannot choose to pupil place in
> a
> > > school that falls on your way to work, but
> > > "regulations" say you have to choose a school
> > in
> > > the opposite direction.. There is no logical
> > > explaination for such decisions other than
> they
> > > want to force us into attending IB at SLHS.
> > These
> > > "regulations" are also made by these same
> > people
> > > who are putting entire communities in such a
> > > position in the first place.
> >
> >
> > Are these roadblocks truly facts or are these
> > things "hearsay" about what "might" happen?


Are the rules now different than the rules prior to the RD?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre Dos ()
Date: March 08, 2008 03:58PM

stop the madness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >We didn't ...
> > . And we didn't ....
>
>
> but you did start throwing around accusations of
> racism and classism at public meetings - and that
> included both SLHS teachers and your SB meeting
>
>
> your accusation that the anti-RD community
>
> "embrace talking points that reflected baseless,
> hollow, veiled attacks on kids -- yes, kids -- in
> neighboring high schools."
>
> what drivel!
>
> No-one ever attacked kids - people did attack the
> holier-than-thou attitude of the SLHS community,
> pointed out significant issues in the performance
> of the school (as documented by FCPS and VDOE) and
> criticized the decision to uproot them into an IB
> program they don't believe in.
>
> It was SLHS community that involved kids into the
> town hall meetings, full of propaganda but not
> having read the FCPS and VDOE figures. No one ever
> attacked them, but they were thrown into adult
> discussions about the performance of their school
> without proper background to suitably emotional
> results.
>
>
> > Stop the madness.
>
> couldn't agree more - but I think we disagree on
> the madness


You are right. We disagree on the madness.

And the reason we disagree is because of the many, and continued attacks based on a lot of rumors and misperceptions that some continue to perpetuate about SL, about the conspiracy, about the school board, now about the principal, the list just keeps growing. Is never seems to end.

I am not asking you to agree. I am asking you to see that what I perceive to be a neutral body agreed overwhelmingly with the points forwarded and supported by the RD community. And furthermore, some of their public statements indicated that the techniques and methods employed by the anti-RD forces appeared to be "elitist" and portraying a sense of entitlement. I think this backfired.

You are free to disagree, and I will probably ot be able to convince you otherwise, but there is no conspiracy by SLHS, SB, staff, Bruce or anyone else in this.

Worst case, might not have been the best decision or process, but that is a matter of opinion.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler ()
Date: March 08, 2008 04:04PM

Beating up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Are the rules now different than the rules prior
> to the RD?


How does that matter? The state of the rules is such that they discourage pupil placement. So it is not an viable option. Earlier there was no large scale need for entire areas to pupil place - the RD has forced a situation where entire Fox Mill, Floris and MI have to pupil place just to get AP. These people had bought houses after selecting their HS programs - Even on fcps.edu they say look at the course offerings of school before choosing which area to go live!! www.fcps.edu/about/choose.htm

This whole RD is a conspiracy to benefit SLHS scores at the cost of the students who are being forced into SLHS IB program from AP programs. Entire mess is just to benefit Stu Gibson win the next election by getting entire Reston votes

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Private School, here we come! ()
Date: March 08, 2008 04:28PM

Much as I hate getting the short end of the stick two times withing three years in trying to get my children pupil placed, the regulations do make some sense. If they did not limit you to first trying to pupil place at the school closest to your base school or closest to your home (you do have that choice), there would be an unmanageable amount of people from the IB schools all over the county trying first to place into Langley, then, if turned down, to the school with the next highest test scores, and so on. The County is not going to provide you with transportation, as it is already paying for you to be transported to your base school. What school system in this country would have enough money to run what would effectively be a limousine or taxi service to transport each student to the school that he/she has chosen to go to?

And yes, those regulations were in existence long before this redistricting exercise came about. (they are actually in a document, it is not just some FCPS person spouting off some conditions) The regulations are not about keeping kids at SLHS, but they are about keeping the pupil placement system manageable for FCPS.

People have been pupil placing out of SLHS to get to AP programs for at least 6 years now. The part that may (will, I predict), is that the SB is somehow going to force FCPS to state that all or most of these destination schools are at or over capacity, thus providing a basis to reject all of the pupil placement applications.


factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beating up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Are the rules now different than the rules
> prior
> > to the RD?
>
>
> How does that matter? The state of the rules is
> such that they discourage pupil placement. So it
> is not an viable option. Earlier there was no
> large scale need for entire areas to pupil place -
> the RD has forced a situation where entire Fox
> Mill, Floris and MI have to pupil place just to
> get AP. These people had bought houses after
> selecting their HS programs - Even on fcps.edu
> they say look at the course offerings of school
> before choosing which area to go live!!
> www.fcps.edu/about/choose.htm
>
> This whole RD is a conspiracy to benefit SLHS
> scores at the cost of the students who are being
> forced into SLHS IB program from AP programs.
> Entire mess is just to benefit Stu Gibson win the
> next election by getting entire Reston votes

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Beating up ()
Date: March 08, 2008 04:29PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beating up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Are the rules now different than the rules
> prior
> > to the RD?
>
>
> How does that matter? The state of the rules is
> such that they discourage pupil placement. So it
> is not an viable option. Earlier there was no
> large scale need for entire areas to pupil place -
> the RD has forced a situation where entire Fox
> Mill, Floris and MI have to pupil place just to
> get AP. These people had bought houses after
> selecting their HS programs - Even on fcps.edu
> they say look at the course offerings of school
> before choosing which area to go live!!
> www.fcps.edu/about/choose.htm
>
> This whole RD is a conspiracy to benefit SLHS
> scores at the cost of the students who are being
> forced into SLHS IB program from AP programs.
> Entire mess is just to benefit Stu Gibson win the
> next election by getting entire Reston votes


If the pupil placement today is the same as it was before, then according to you this was a conspiracy on-going for a while. Where were you before, and why all of a sudden this is more of a problem than before? Why didn't you make a stink aboutthis or throw out your SB rep before.

THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY, THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY.

Nobody is being forced into anything. Pupil-placement WILL be available.

If you are so concerned as you claim, and sincerely I am sure that you are and do want what's best for your kids (just like we do), then yes, while it will be (somewhat) incovenient, you will find a way to sacrifice a little bit (more) to ensure that your kids do get a good 9or the best) education at an AP school.

And while I know you will disagree, please understand, it was also inconvenient for those of us in this pyramid not to have our kids get access to the same opportunities that most others in FFX have had for a while. Contrary to a very vocal (relative) minority, this is what this whole debate was about.

And in as much as many others talk about their HS choices when their kids are not even in pre-school and about all the due dilligence they have made in choosing a home - I am sure their decisions so early on don't focus on AP vs. IB (I for one have never seen or heard of a house for sale being available in AP district) and for as smart as many of these parents are or claim to be, apparently many have been misled by their realtor or completely missed the step in the diligence that their house is not in the Oakton, or Chantilly or Herndon or whatever school district - but rather the FCPS.

So, to paraphrase or rephrase or requote SLHS Padre:

Stop the madness. Pupil place, move, sue, or be constructive and make up your own mind without reciting the CAPS mantra.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LogicalEnding ()
Date: March 08, 2008 04:35PM

SLHS Padre Dos Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> And the reason we disagree is because of the many,
> and continued attacks based on a lot of rumors and
> misperceptions that some continue to perpetuate
> about SL, about the conspiracy, about the school
> board, now about the principal, the list just
> keeps growing. Is never seems to end.
>

It will never end till a just solution is reached. Stu and SLHS has annexed a large area and have taken away opportunities that those areas had till now. These annexed areas are being asked just to serve the interests of SLHS and are being told that their rights and needs are unimportant as compared to SLHS.
Look at history - What if every one in Europe had just agreed to end the fight after Hitler had invaded most of Europe and agreed to live under Hitler's rule? Anytime when one group of people by their hold on power try to benefit at another group's expense there will be great and constant opposition. It is human nature to fight against abuse.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SBS ()
Date: March 08, 2008 04:49PM

Beating up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And while I know you will disagree, please
> understand, it was also inconvenient for those of
> us in this pyramid not to have our kids get access
> to the same opportunities that most others in FFX
> have had for a while. Contrary to a very vocal
> (relative) minority, this is what this whole
> debate was about.

The pro-RD people keep using this argument, but where are the concrete examples of opportunities to which you don't have access? And don't use the "This or that class was cancelled because of lack of registration". That happens at ALL high schools.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Ambrose Burnside ()
Date: March 08, 2008 05:00PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:

> . And we didn't quote Sun Tzu in the context of
> "wars" to be fought, while we blindly followed
> leaders with the skills of Ambrose Burnside into
> greater depths of futility and derision.
>



Ambrose Burnside? At least he fought on the right side of the "War Between the States"!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 08, 2008 05:03PM

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beating up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And while I know you will disagree, please
> > understand, it was also inconvenient for those
> of
> > us in this pyramid not to have our kids get
> access
> > to the same opportunities that most others in
> FFX
> > have had for a while. Contrary to a very vocal
> > (relative) minority, this is what this whole
> > debate was about.
>
> The pro-RD people keep using this argument, but
> where are the concrete examples of opportunities
> to which you don't have access? And don't use the
> "This or that class was cancelled because of lack
> of registration". That happens at ALL high
> schools.


Exactly, SBS. We have asked this particular question quite a few times on this thread and nobody exactly knows what specifically SL do not have access to. Not ALL high schools can have ALL of the courses every student requests. A number of pages earlier on this thread, there was a post comparing the SL and the Oakton curriculum. SL offered quite an attractive list of courses, not that much different from Oakton except of course the AP vs IB program. This RD was NOT necessary at all, period.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 08, 2008 05:11PM

Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ambrose Burnside? At least he fought on the right side of the "War Between the
> States"!


If you believe Burnside fought on the "right side" (as do I) why refer to the southern insurrection by the name used by seccessionists to refer to the 1861-65 conflict?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: CAPS' Surrender ()
Date: March 08, 2008 05:32PM

Yes, the CAPS lawsuit will fade as the South did from its former glory when Sherman made his notorious march!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Pope Paul ()
Date: March 08, 2008 05:33PM

Are the stories of drug abuse at Oakton true?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NormandyLanding ()
Date: March 08, 2008 05:49PM

No. CAPs lawsuit will start the downfall of Stu Gibson and the arrogant SB, just as Normandy marked the start of fall of Hitler in WWII

CAPS' Surrender Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, the CAPS lawsuit will fade as the South did
> from its former glory when Sherman made his
> notorious march!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Lurker ()
Date: March 08, 2008 05:56PM

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
> I do take exception to your position that an
> anti-RD lawsuit has no merit.

I'm as anti-RD as anyone, but I don't see the grounds for a lawsuit. Representative democracy means that we voted the idiots in, we gave 'em the keys, they get to do what they want, within the law. The controls are the ability to vote them out next time, AND anything else provided by the rules of their specific position -- in this case, there seems to be the capacity for a recall.

On what grounds are you suggesting a lawsuit would prevail?

"Their decision hurts our home values"? FCPS is not responsible for your home values.

"Their decision will keep my kid from <some aspect of the education (s)he would have gotten otherwise>"? You'd have to demonstrate that within the requirements of the law, your right to a decent education was being violated. Whatever we may think of FCPS, the SB, IB, and/or SLHS, this is a huge stretch -- considering that in most of the country, SLHS would be the envy of the other schools (i.e., if you were to prevail on these grounds, those other areas would already have been able to sue ?someone? for the quality of THEIR schools).

"Stu Gibson is an idiot"? Sorry, he was elected. Recall him, but that's not grounds for court action.

"The process was bogus"? (Using "bogus" as a placeholder for the many, many flaws discussed in the preceding pages!) Again, they were elected; recall 'em and/or vote the rascals out next time.

I just don't see it. And please don't tell me "it's a secret" -- it won't be as soon as the suit is filed, and a few more days/weeks notice isn't going to make any difference: the suit has merit or not.

P.S. On the grandfathering front: the deadline for decisions about next year's classes is fast approaching. It occurs to me that once schedules are set, it's going to be MUCH harder to renege on grandfathering. This suggests to me that the RD really will only apply to freshmen, as claimed. Which doesn't make it better for those affected, of course...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: why? ()
Date: March 08, 2008 06:00PM

Beating up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And while I know you will disagree, please
> understand, it was also inconvenient for those of
> us in this pyramid not to have our kids get access
> to the same opportunities that most others in FFX
> have had for a while. Contrary to a very vocal
> (relative) minority, this is what this whole
> debate was about.
>

We've been here before and no-one will tell us what opportunities were missing other than one german class, jewelry making and photography - and that its too easy to get on your sports teams.

You've had access to more staff, more computers and a nice new refurb

So we're being RD'd for jewelry making?

Is it just me or is this whole RD just daft?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oh PLEEEEEEEASE ()
Date: March 08, 2008 07:13PM

LogicalEnding Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Dos Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> > And the reason we disagree is because of the
> many,
> > and continued attacks based on a lot of rumors
> and
> > misperceptions that some continue to perpetuate
> > about SL, about the conspiracy, about the
> school
> > board, now about the principal, the list just
> > keeps growing. Is never seems to end.
> >
>
> It will never end till a just solution is reached.
> Stu and SLHS has annexed a large area and have
> taken away opportunities that those areas had till
> now. These annexed areas are being asked just to
> serve the interests of SLHS and are being told
> that their rights and needs are unimportant as
> compared to SLHS.
> Look at history - What if every one in Europe had
> just agreed to end the fight after Hitler had
> invaded most of Europe and agreed to live under
> Hitler's rule? Anytime when one group of people
> by their hold on power try to benefit at another
> group's expense there will be great and constant
> opposition. It is human nature to fight against
> abuse.


Oh pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase. What's with you guys and the WWII. Abuse ? Abuse is when one beats one's spouse.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: New here ()
Date: March 08, 2008 09:09PM

Hi, I'm new here. Can anybody give me the lowdown on IB vs. AP?

Excuse me if this has been discussed before!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: March 08, 2008 09:15PM

factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> ... This whole RD is a conspiracy to benefit SLHS
> scores at the cost of the students who are being
> forced into SLHS IB program from AP programs. ...

As I stated before somewhere up above, the Jay Mathews Challenge Index is a silly way to measure schools. He divides the number of AP and IB exams taken in a school by the number of graduating seniors. He gives equal credit to SL and HL exams. Similarly, he gives equal credit to "half credit" AP courses (such as AP Psych) that he does to full credit AP courses (such as AP BC Calculus). He does not consider how well students SCORE on an exam, only that they show up for it.

Having stated why I consider the "Challenge Index" to be a bogus measure of a school, it is still a bit unsettling to see SLHS as the only northwestern FCPS high school to be displaying a declining "Challenge Index" trend:
School / Index 05 / Index 06 / Index 07 / two-year change
LANGLEY / 3.33 / 3.40 / 3.72 / 0.38
OAKTON / 2.76 / 3.11 / 3.33 / 0.57
CHANTILLY / 2.85 / 2.72 / 3.07 / 0.22
MADISON / 2.77 / 2.96 / 2.97 / 0.20
HERNDON / 2.40 / 2.85 / 2.87 / 0.47
MARSHALL / 2.33 / 2.49 / 2.63 / 0.30
SOUTH LAKES / 1.78 / 1.61 / 1.48 / -0.30

Since as we all know by now, AP and IB are different, here are the Challenge Indexes just for the FCPS IB High schools:
School Index 07
ROBINSON 2.88
MARSHALL 2.63
STUART 1.97
EDISON 1.63
MOUNT VERNON 1.54
LEE 1.54
SOUTH LAKES 1.48
ANNANDALE 1.39

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Home Shopper ()
Date: March 08, 2008 09:22PM

Hi all! We are relocating from Colorado and our Realtor is wanting to show us homes in the Southlakes(?) school district. My initial research indicates that this school district is SHIT, pardon my French!

BUT this Realtor is trying to tell us that there is an imminent influx of genius white kids to Southlakes that will make the houses he wants to show us TRIPLE in value!

But, we told him that we HATE kids and will NEVER have any...so now he's trying to steer us to the Chantilly(sp?) and Oakton areas. He says homes there will soon be DIRT CHEAP!

Any truth to any of this?

(THANKS!)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 09, 2008 05:55AM

Home Shopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi all! We are relocating from Colorado and our
> Realtor is wanting to show us homes in the
> Southlakes(?) school district. My initial
> research indicates that this school district is
> SHIT, pardon my French!
>
> BUT this Realtor is trying to tell us that there
> is an imminent influx of genius white kids to
> Southlakes that will make the houses he wants to
> show us TRIPLE in value!
>
> But, we told him that we HATE kids and will NEVER
> have any...so now he's trying to steer us to the
> Chantilly(sp?) and Oakton areas. He says homes
> there will soon be DIRT CHEAP!
>
> Any truth to any of this?
>
> (THANKS!)

Chantilly and Oakton areas won't change in price. Not enough students are leaving either school to make any difference. By the same token, not enough students will enter South Lakes to make any difference. Move to Vienna, good schools and stable house prices.

BTW, you are rather obviously a kid from Reston. But thanks for playing anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2008 05:58AM by Neen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 09, 2008 05:57AM

CAPS' Surrender Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, the CAPS lawsuit will fade as the South did
> from its former glory when Sherman made his
> notorious march!

You kids are so cute. If only you IB kids could tell us what Sherman did AFTER the war.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 09, 2008 06:00AM

straight talk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>OK. All I've seen is more of the 'back to
> basics' and 'get parents invovled' rhetoric, which
> I fear will leave the bottom 20-30% of students in
> the dust. On the other hand the other 70-80% will
> probably excel.
>
> So the logic here is because these programs won't
> work for 100% of the students, we should instead
> maintain the staus quo which is failing 70% of the
> students in some schools????
>
> This my friends represents the flawed logic of our
> SB and teachers unions.
> Our maybe it is their socialistic philosophy.
>
> You also gotta love FCPS position that IB and AP
> are separate but equal.
> But they will choose who gets what, not families.

Yup. That's pretty much it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: March 09, 2008 09:14AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CAPS' Surrender Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, the CAPS lawsuit will fade as the South
> did
> > from its former glory when Sherman made his
> > notorious march!
>
> You kids are so cute. If only you IB kids could
> tell us what Sherman did AFTER the war.


I sent an email to a couple of them who are in Iraq and Afghanistan, respectively.

I'll let you know what they say, if they get a chance to answer you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Ambrose Burnside ()
Date: March 09, 2008 09:24AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ambrose Burnside? At least he fought on the
> right side of the "War Between the
> > States"!
>
>
> If you believe Burnside fought on the "right side"
> (as do I) why refer to the southern insurrection
> by the name used by seccessionists to refer to the
> 1861-65 conflict?


I thought it would make more sense to a person who has misunderstood the lessons of history and misapplied them in our current local context.

Your broadbrush painting of the large and highly diverse community behind CAPS as a bunch of change-fearing, Reston-kid haters wearing yellow and cheering in a frenzy is like every other form of prejudice: it reads insidious intent into places where there is none.

We are your neighbors, not your enemies. We want to keep our schools because they work for us, not because we hate yours.

Use history well, please.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: March 09, 2008 09:28AM

Another Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
> > I do take exception to your position that an
> > anti-RD lawsuit has no merit.
>
> I'm as anti-RD as anyone, but I don't see the
> grounds for a lawsuit. Representative democracy
> means that we voted the idiots in, we gave 'em the
> keys, they get to do what they want, within the
> law. The controls are the ability to vote them
> out next time, AND anything else provided by the
> rules of their specific position -- in this case,
> there seems to be the capacity for a recall.
>
> On what grounds are you suggesting a lawsuit would
> prevail?
>
> "Their decision hurts our home values"? FCPS is
> not responsible for your home values.
>
> "Their decision will keep my kid from <some
> aspect of the education (s)he would have gotten
> otherwise>"? You'd have to demonstrate that
> within the requirements of the law, your right to
> a decent education was being violated. Whatever
> we may think of FCPS, the SB, IB, and/or SLHS,
> this is a huge stretch -- considering that in most
> of the country, SLHS would be the envy of the
> other schools (i.e., if you were to prevail on
> these grounds, those other areas would already
> have been able to sue ?someone? for the quality of
> THEIR schools).
>
> "Stu Gibson is an idiot"? Sorry, he was elected.
> Recall him, but that's not grounds for court
> action.
>
> "The process was bogus"? (Using "bogus" as a
> placeholder for the many, many flaws discussed in
> the preceding pages!) Again, they were elected;
> recall 'em and/or vote the rascals out next time.
>
> I just don't see it. And please don't tell me
> "it's a secret" -- it won't be as soon as the suit
> is filed, and a few more days/weeks notice isn't
> going to make any difference: the suit has merit
> or not.
>
> P.S. On the grandfathering front: the deadline for
> decisions about next year's classes is fast
> approaching. It occurs to me that once schedules
> are set, it's going to be MUCH harder to renege on
> grandfathering. This suggests to me that the RD
> really will only apply to freshmen, as claimed.
> Which doesn't make it better for those affected,
> of course...


Having no legal background and no knowledge of the applicable statutes, I don't know what should be the basis of a legal challenge. I also generally detest this option.

However, I am all for sending a message. We are stuck with this SB for 4 more years, which means that unless we can unite and wield a large hammer, they are not going to listen.

Anyone know how many signatures are required to get a recall ballot initiative?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre Dos ()
Date: March 09, 2008 09:41AM

Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ambrose Burnside? At least he fought on the
> > right side of the "War Between the
> > > States"!
> >
> >
> > If you believe Burnside fought on the "right
> side"
> > (as do I) why refer to the southern
> insurrection
> > by the name used by seccessionists to refer to
> the
> > 1861-65 conflict?
>
>
> I thought it would make more sense to a person who
> has misunderstood the lessons of history and
> misapplied them in our current local context.
>
> Your broadbrush painting of the large and highly
> diverse community behind CAPS as a bunch of
> change-fearing, Reston-kid haters wearing yellow
> and cheering in a frenzy is like every other form
> of prejudice: it reads insidious intent into
> places where there is none.
>
> We are your neighbors, not your enemies. We want
> to keep our schools because they work for us, not
> because we hate yours.
>
> Use history well, please.

You sure about this "not because we hate yours"? Maybe you personally don't, but there is plenty others in your own sphere and on this board that do not share your view.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: March 09, 2008 09:53AM

SLHS Padre Dos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Ambrose Burnside? At least he fought on
> the
> > > right side of the "War Between the
> > > > States"!
> > >
> > >
> > > If you believe Burnside fought on the "right
> > side"
> > > (as do I) why refer to the southern
> > insurrection
> > > by the name used by seccessionists to refer
> to
> > the
> > > 1861-65 conflict?
> >
> >
> > I thought it would make more sense to a person
> who
> > has misunderstood the lessons of history and
> > misapplied them in our current local context.
> >
> > Your broadbrush painting of the large and
> highly
> > diverse community behind CAPS as a bunch of
> > change-fearing, Reston-kid haters wearing
> yellow
> > and cheering in a frenzy is like every other
> form
> > of prejudice: it reads insidious intent into
> > places where there is none.
> >
> > We are your neighbors, not your enemies. We
> want
> > to keep our schools because they work for us,
> not
> > because we hate yours.
> >
> > Use history well, please.
>
> You sure about this "not because we hate yours"?
> Maybe you personally don't, but there is plenty
> others in your own sphere and on this board that
> do not share your view.


Sorry, Ambrose. But your folks have invoked the images of "war", and clearly the SLHS community (in addition to FCPS) has been the targeted "enemy".

Your imagery; your choice....not ours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2008 09:54AM by SLHS Padre.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:02AM

Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ambrose Burnside? At least he fought on the
> > right side of the "War Between the
> > > States"!
> >
> >
> > If you believe Burnside fought on the "right
> side"
> > (as do I) why refer to the southern
> insurrection
> > by the name used by seccessionists to refer to
> the
> > 1861-65 conflict?
>
>
> I thought it would make more sense to a person who
> has misunderstood the lessons of history and
> misapplied them in our current local context.
>
> Your broadbrush painting of the large and highly
> diverse community behind CAPS as a bunch of
> change-fearing, Reston-kid haters wearing yellow
> and cheering in a frenzy is like every other form
> of prejudice: it reads insidious intent into
> places where there is none.
>
> We are your neighbors, not your enemies. We want
> to keep our schools because they work for us, not
> because we hate yours.
>
> Use history well, please.

You're confusing me with someone else.

I have no beef with CAPS or its agenda.

Though a law suit is a waste of energy and resources because its certain to fail.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Ambrose Burnside ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:09AM

SLHS Padre,

You said, "You sure about this 'not because we hate yours'? Maybe you personally don't, but there is plenty others in your own sphere and on this board that do not share your view."

I can't speak for the people on this board. This is NOT a CAPS view.


In another posting you said, "Sorry, Ambrose. But your folks have invoked the images of 'war', and clearly the SLHS community (in addition to FCPS) has been the targeted 'enemy'."

Wrong again. This is not a CAPS view, if that is who you mean by "your folks." The "Ambrose Burnside" thing was a pick up from another pro-redistricting poster yesterday who compared CAPS leaders to Burnside.

Since many who promoted redistricting had claimed that those against changing districts were fearful of diversity--even though our neighborhoods are in fact highly diverse--I found the irony of comparing CAPS to a Union general whose troops were slaughtered by Confederates in Virginia an incredible irony.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:10AM

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone know how many signatures are required to get a recall ballot initiative?

10% of the number who voted in the election. A little over 2,300.

I would get 3000 to be safe.

I understand nearly that number have been collected but every additional signature helps.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LogicalEnding ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:36AM

It is an analogy. Obviously the degree of wrong being done here is different - but it is a valid analogy. Stu Gibson ( the self proclaimed decider ) is analogous to Hitler, the 10 SB members his Nazi party. The annexed areas are analogous to the parts of Europe Hitler invaded. The smart students who are all planning on AP are analogous to the resistance fighers in France and other countries who were hunted down by the Nazis - these students in this case are being forced out of their homes and are being told to go away (pupil place or sell their houses in fire sales in a down market). Pure IB loving families who support Gibson, will replace these empty houses so that he can win the next election (just as power hungry as Hitler. Fox Mill and Floris areas voted against him so he had to take action to make sure those voters are not there by 2011 elections. What better way to force them out of their houses than this RD, take away their acadamic programs and these school oriented voters will be forced to move!) The lawsuits are like the resistance movements formed all across Europe.

P.S. The IB loving families that Gibson want to plant in all these annexed areas, after all the AP people are forced out, dont have high school age kids. So very soon this Hitler is going to be back saying the community has aged in place and SLHS needs more areas. Adjoining communities beware. Just as no one was safe when Hitler was in power , dont think that you are ok just because you escaped this round of RD. Gibson will come after you eventually to force you out of your houses in the next round of RD.


Oh PLEEEEEEEASE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LogicalEnding Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLHS Padre Dos Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > ---
> > >
> > > And the reason we disagree is because of the
> > many,
> > > and continued attacks based on a lot of
> rumors
> > and
> > > misperceptions that some continue to
> perpetuate
> > > about SL, about the conspiracy, about the
> > school
> > > board, now about the principal, the list just
> > > keeps growing. Is never seems to end.
> > >
> >
> > It will never end till a just solution is
> reached.
> > Stu and SLHS has annexed a large area and have
> > taken away opportunities that those areas had
> till
> > now. These annexed areas are being asked just
> to
> > serve the interests of SLHS and are being told
> > that their rights and needs are unimportant as
> > compared to SLHS.
> > Look at history - What if every one in Europe
> had
> > just agreed to end the fight after Hitler had
> > invaded most of Europe and agreed to live under
> > Hitler's rule? Anytime when one group of
> people
> > by their hold on power try to benefit at
> another
> > group's expense there will be great and
> constant
> > opposition. It is human nature to fight against
> > abuse.
>
>
> Oh pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase. What's
> with you guys and the WWII. Abuse ? Abuse is
> when one beats one's spouse.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: jack-dale ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:46AM

hI, i AM jACK.

i AM A TERRIBLE SUPERINTENDENT.

i ALSO HAVE A SCHOOL BOARD THAT IS SUBSTANDARD.

I HAVE THE TISDALE FAMILY RUNING MY SCHOOL SYSTEM

PLEASE VOTE ME OUT

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre Dos ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:48AM

Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre,
>
> You said, "You sure about this 'not because we
> hate yours'? Maybe you personally don't, but there
> is plenty others in your own sphere and on this
> board that do not share your view."
>
> I can't speak for the people on this board. This
> is NOT a CAPS view.
>
>
Like I said, in my prior posting, I am not suggesting you, and I am not suggesting many others...I am also not suggesing that this board is a CAPS view board only...BUT...all you gave to do is to scroll back thorugh some of the pages of this blog, and some of the public testimony given...and it is not hard to find examples fo (many) people who "belittle" and yes, even hate the SLHS community.

I am fine with exposing and promoting their views even if they are opposing, and I am fine with agreeing to disagree, this is the basis of a democracy...BUT...I for one am not ok with dragging the SLHS community through the 'mud" which some (maybe not most) have chosen to do.

Peace brother.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:49AM

LogicalEnding Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is an analogy. Obviously the degree of wrong
> being done here is different - but it is a valid
> analogy. Stu Gibson ( the self proclaimed decider
> ) is analogous to Hitler, the 10 SB members his
> Nazi party. The annexed areas are analogous to
> the parts of Europe Hitler invaded. The smart
> students who are all planning on AP are analogous
> to the resistance fighers in France and other
> countries who were hunted down by the Nazis -
> these students in this case are being forced out
> of their homes and are being told to go away
> (pupil place or sell their houses in fire sales in
> a down market). Pure IB loving families who
> support Gibson, will replace these empty houses so
> that he can win the next election (just as power
> hungry as Hitler. Fox Mill and Floris areas voted
> against him so he had to take action to make sure
> those voters are not there by 2011 elections. What
> better way to force them out of their houses than
> this RD, take away their acadamic programs and
> these school oriented voters will be forced to
> move!) The lawsuits are like the resistance
> movements formed all across Europe.
>
> P.S. The IB loving families that Gibson want to
> plant in all these annexed areas, after all the AP
> people are forced out, dont have high school age
> kids. So very soon this Hitler is going to be back
> saying the community has aged in place and SLHS
> needs more areas. Adjoining communities beware.
> Just as no one was safe when Hitler was in power ,
> dont think that you are ok just because you
> escaped this round of RD. Gibson will come after
> you eventually to force you out of your houses in
> the next round of RD.
>
>
> Oh PLEEEEEEEASE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LogicalEnding Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SLHS Padre Dos Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > ---
> > > >
> > > > And the reason we disagree is because of
> the
> > > many,
> > > > and continued attacks based on a lot of
> > rumors
> > > and
> > > > misperceptions that some continue to
> > perpetuate
> > > > about SL, about the conspiracy, about the
> > > school
> > > > board, now about the principal, the list
> just
> > > > keeps growing. Is never seems to end.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It will never end till a just solution is
> > reached.
> > > Stu and SLHS has annexed a large area and
> have
> > > taken away opportunities that those areas had
> > till
> > > now. These annexed areas are being asked just
> > to
> > > serve the interests of SLHS and are being
> told
> > > that their rights and needs are unimportant
> as
> > > compared to SLHS.
> > > Look at history - What if every one in Europe
> > had
> > > just agreed to end the fight after Hitler had
> > > invaded most of Europe and agreed to live
> under
> > > Hitler's rule? Anytime when one group of
> > people
> > > by their hold on power try to benefit at
> > another
> > > group's expense there will be great and
> > constant
> > > opposition. It is human nature to fight
> against
> > > abuse.
> >
> >
> > Oh pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase. What's
> > with you guys and the WWII. Abuse ? Abuse is
> > when one beats one's spouse.


Which is why we really need to have him recalled even though this recall is related to a separate incident, unfortunately. I have never seen such a bullying sb member treating those hard working RDed families and disrupting them blisteringly and even to his own colleagues and them turning in to support him in whatever agenda he wants.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre Dos ()
Date: March 09, 2008 10:51AM

Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre,
>
> You said, "You sure about this 'not because we
> hate yours'? Maybe you personally don't, but there
> is plenty others in your own sphere and on this
> board that do not share your view."
>
> I can't speak for the people on this board. This
> is NOT a CAPS view.
>
>
> In another posting you said, "Sorry, Ambrose. But
> your folks have invoked the images of 'war', and
> clearly the SLHS community (in addition to FCPS)
> has been the targeted 'enemy'."
>
> Wrong again. This is not a CAPS view, if that is
> who you mean by "your folks." The "Ambrose
> Burnside" thing was a pick up from another
> pro-redistricting poster yesterday who compared
> CAPS leaders to Burnside.
>
> Since many who promoted redistricting had claimed
> that those against changing districts were fearful
> of diversity--even though our neighborhoods are in
> fact highly diverse--I found the irony of
> comparing CAPS to a Union general whose troops
> were slaughtered by Confederates in Virginia an
> incredible irony.


Like I said, in my prior posting, I am not suggesting you, and I am not suggesting many others...I am also not suggesting that this board is a CAPS view board only...BUT...all you gave to do is to scroll back through some of the pages of this blog, and some of the public testimony given...and it is not hard to find examples of (many) people who "belittle" and yes, even hate the SLHS community.

I am fine with exposing and promoting their views even if they are opposing, and I am fine with agreeing to disagree, this is the basis of a democracy...BUT...I for one am not ok with dragging the SLHS community through the 'mud" which some (maybe not most) have chosen to do.

Peace brother.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LogicalEnding ()
Date: March 09, 2008 11:06AM

We have been hearing of the recall for months now. Who is leading the effort? When will it happen if at all?

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Which is why we really need to have him recalled
> even though this recall is related to a separate
> incident, unfortunately. I have never seen such a
> bullying sb member treating those hard working
> RDed families and disrupting them blisteringly and
> even to his own colleagues and them turning in to
> support him in whatever agenda he wants.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: March 09, 2008 12:10PM

Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre,
>
> You said, "You sure about this 'not because we
> hate yours'? Maybe you personally don't, but there


You are merging me with SLHS Padre Dos, which is no insult.

You can justifiably talk about the diversity of FM and of Floris -- no argument here on that point-- but you are dreaming if you think that a lot of the animus toward SLHS is not based on concerns about its socio-economic and racial mix.

All of this in the context of much talk about litigation, lawsuits, etc., which have little, if any, chance of success, and continue to flame the antagonisms between and among our communities.

My comment on Burnside was linked directly to the CAPS-led threat of litigation, and is intended as a parallel to the assault on Marye's Heights.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 09, 2008 12:27PM

LogicalEnding Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have been hearing of the recall for months now. Who is leading the effort?
> When will it happen if at all?

In Virginia a recall is a lawsuit. Once the signatures are collected, money has to be raised to hire an attorney to represent the petitioners.

That's why a lawsuit challenging the RD and a recall are unlikely to be funded at the same time, together they would cost $500,000 or more but a recall could be effective with $150,000 to $200,000.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Observer ()
Date: March 09, 2008 12:49PM

I think what the school board did to the communities that have to be forced into South Lakes is awful. What will happen to the new students that will end up at South Lakes? Some will pupil place out, but most will have to go to South Lakes and because of all the bad feelings on both sides, it seems these new students will feel the pain. The students at South Lakes will hold a grudge and may take it out on the new students. The new students will not want to be at that school and will only make thing worse. I just hope things work out, because it looks like it will be awful for a long time for these students. Good Luck!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre Dos ()
Date: March 09, 2008 01:12PM

Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think what the school board did to the
> communities that have to be forced into South
> Lakes is awful. What will happen to the new
> students that will end up at South Lakes? Some
> will pupil place out, but most will have to go to
> South Lakes and because of all the bad feelings on
> both sides, it seems these new students will feel
> the pain. The students at South Lakes will hold a
> grudge and may take it out on the new students.
> The new students will not want to be at that
> school and will only make thing worse. I just hope
> things work out, because it looks like it will be
> awful for a long time for these students. Good
> Luck!!


For the record, to my knowledge, there is no ill will and no grudge and no animosity on the SL parents and kids side. Quite the contrary, most, if not all, are looking forward to the new kids and parents, and a number of volunteers have already stepped up (kids and parents) to help in the newcomers.

As for those coming in, my guess is that many, if not most of the kids will be ok, if left alone, and not prodded up by the parents who for whatever reasons choose to continue injecting their opinions and antagonisitic messages into the equation. After all some or many of these kids are already doing outside activities with some/many of the SLHS kids in soccer, other sports, dance, art, etc.

For those families coming in with an open mind, their kids will be more than fine. My guess and my personal bet, is that in a few years, when all will look back objectively, many of them will even be able to say - Hey, you know what? This was a good thing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: LogicalEnding ()
Date: March 09, 2008 01:51PM

I dont know the law, but why is this a lawsuit if the voters are signing the recall petition? This sucks. Are there not any lawyers living in FoxMill, Floris or MI that can volunteer some time? They would get free press coverage.

Now I think I understand why SB excluded Langley from the study. The people living there have deep pockets to fund a lawsuit, so the SB decided to go after the middle class neighbourhoods. Jungle law - go after the weakest prey.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LogicalEnding Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We have been hearing of the recall for months
> now. Who is leading the effort?
> > When will it happen if at all?
>
> In Virginia a recall is a lawsuit. Once the
> signatures are collected, money has to be raised
> to hire an attorney to represent the petitioners.
>
> That's why a lawsuit challenging the RD and a
> recall are unlikely to be funded at the same time,
> together they would cost $500,000 or more but a
> recall could be effective with $150,000 to
> $200,000.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: rationaleForIB? ()
Date: March 09, 2008 02:01PM

It is not only Jay Mathew's index, every other index shows simillar results. I am really curious why SLHS want to keep IB instead of AP even when IB is dragging them down and turning off new students.

Any insight from SLers?


Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> factsAboutSouthLakesAndBruceButler Wrote:
> > ... This whole RD is a conspiracy to benefit
> SLHS
> > scores at the cost of the students who are
> being
> > forced into SLHS IB program from AP programs.
> ...
>
> As I stated before somewhere up above, the Jay
> Mathews Challenge Index is a silly way to measure
> schools. He divides the number of AP and IB exams
> taken in a school by the number of graduating
> seniors. He gives equal credit to SL and HL exams.
> Similarly, he gives equal credit to "half credit"
> AP courses (such as AP Psych) that he does to full
> credit AP courses (such as AP BC Calculus). He
> does not consider how well students SCORE on an
> exam, only that they show up for it.
>
> Having stated why I consider the "Challenge Index"
> to be a bogus measure of a school, it is still a
> bit unsettling to see SLHS as the only
> northwestern FCPS high school to be displaying a
> declining "Challenge Index" trend:
> School / Index 05 / Index 06 / Index 07 /
> two-year change
> LANGLEY / 3.33 / 3.40 / 3.72 / 0.38
> OAKTON / 2.76 / 3.11 / 3.33 / 0.57
> CHANTILLY / 2.85 / 2.72 / 3.07 / 0.22
> MADISON / 2.77 / 2.96 / 2.97 / 0.20
> HERNDON / 2.40 / 2.85 / 2.87 / 0.47
> MARSHALL / 2.33 / 2.49 / 2.63 / 0.30
> SOUTH LAKES / 1.78 / 1.61 / 1.48 / -0.30
>
> Since as we all know by now, AP and IB are
> different, here are the Challenge Indexes just for
> the FCPS IB High schools:
> School Index 07
> ROBINSON 2.88
> MARSHALL 2.63
> STUART 1.97
> EDISON 1.63
> MOUNT VERNON 1.54
> LEE 1.54
> SOUTH LAKES 1.48
> ANNANDALE 1.39

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: conventional wisdom ()
Date: March 09, 2008 02:13PM

LogicalEnding Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont know the law, but why is this a lawsuit if
> the voters are signing the recall petition? This
> sucks. Are there not any lawyers living in
> FoxMill, Floris or MI that can volunteer some
> time? They would get free press coverage.
>
> Now I think I understand why SB excluded Langley
> from the study. The people living there have deep
> pockets to fund a lawsuit, so the SB decided to go
> after the middle class neighbourhoods. Jungle law
> - go after the weakest prey.
>
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LogicalEnding Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > We have been hearing of the recall for months
> > now. Who is leading the effort?
> > > When will it happen if at all?
> >
> > In Virginia a recall is a lawsuit. Once the
> > signatures are collected, money has to be
> raised
> > to hire an attorney to represent the
> petitioners.
> >
> > That's why a lawsuit challenging the RD and a
> > recall are unlikely to be funded at the same
> time,
> > together they would cost $500,000 or more but a
> > recall could be effective with $150,000 to
> > $200,000.

Why is it that everyone just assumes the Langley district is untouchable due to it's wealth and affluence? Maybe cummulatively they are, but do you really think the entire Langley community would be up in arms if the SB decided to pick off some of those areas just south of Rt 7 or even just north of Herndon?

If you can buy a home in the so called MI/MN then you can buy any home anywhere in the Langley district (I don't live there btw). It's not just about money it's also about how big or small your community is.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: March 09, 2008 02:22PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anyone know how many signatures are required to
> get a recall ballot initiative?
>
> 10% of the number who voted in the election. A
> little over 2,300.
>
> I would get 3000 to be safe.
>
> I understand nearly that number have been
> collected but every additional signature helps.

If I put up a website to collect "signatures" would that carry any weight in a legal proceeding, assuming that the list were cleansed for duplicates and out of boundary, unverifiable names?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Obvious Man ()
Date: March 09, 2008 02:25PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:

> but you are dreaming if you think that a lot of
> the animus toward SLHS is not based on concerns
> about its socio-economic and racial mix.
>

Much of the 'animus' is a reaction to the condescending and patronizing tone displayed by many RD advocates.

The socio-economic and racial mix may in part contribute to preferences for other schools, based on the belief, justified or not, that such mix weakens the quality of the academic environment.

I wouldn't confuse these preferences with 'animus.'

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: March 09, 2008 02:28PM

Maybe b/c all the crapola about inferior education and declining test scores is crapola?




Tuesday, August 28, 2007

Several FCPS High Schools Make Significant Gains on 2007 SAT Scores

Several Fairfax County high schools—including South Lakes High, Mount Vernon High, Marshall High, and Stuart High—have made large, statistically significant gains on their 2007 SAT scores, according to figures released today by Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent Jack D. Dale (See table 4). .......

Students at South Lakes High made the most impressive SAT gains, raising their school’s average Critical Reading score by 15 points, their school’s average Mathematics score by 12 points, and their school’s average Writing score by 19 points.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 09, 2008 02:37PM

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I put up a website to collect "signatures" would that carry any weight in a
> legal proceeding, assuming that the list were cleansed for duplicates and out of
> boundary, unverifiable names?

Have to do it the archaic way - ink on paper.

If you register your e-mail address here I can send you a reply via private message and get you the names of folks circulating the petition. Signatories have to be registered voters in Hunter Mill district only.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2008 02:39PM by Thomas More.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: March 09, 2008 02:49PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ambrose Burnside Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLHS Padre,
> >
> > You said, "You sure about this 'not because we
> > hate yours'? Maybe you personally don't, but
> there
>
>
> You are merging me with SLHS Padre Dos, which is
> no insult.
>
> You can justifiably talk about the diversity of FM
> and of Floris -- no argument here on that point--
> but you are dreaming if you think that a lot of
> the animus toward SLHS is not based on concerns
> about its socio-economic and racial mix.
>
> All of this in the context of much talk about
> litigation, lawsuits, etc., which have little, if
> any, chance of success, and continue to flame the
> antagonisms between and among our communities.
>
> My comment on Burnside was linked directly to the
> CAPS-led threat of litigation, and is intended as
> a parallel to the assault on Marye's Heights.

Padre,

You need to speak for yourself and not others.

The SLHS community brought scrutiny on itself by supporting the annexation of unwilling neighborhoods. There are legitimate questions being raised regarding the performance of the school, and to attribute racism to people's motives to oppose RD without walking in their shoes is in itself antagonistic. Also, the RD supporters have been anything but color-blind in this affair -- there are lots of public examples.

A little introspection and self-critique would not be out of order here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SL is all powerful, NOT ()
Date: March 09, 2008 05:11PM

I have to laugh at the comments that South Lakes drove the agenda for this redistricting. SL has probably had the least influence of any school in the study for as many years as I have lived here. It's like calling President Bush stupid and then complaining that he tricked everyone.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: House Hunting ()
Date: March 09, 2008 05:13PM

I am looking for a house in the Madison Island area and found a property that I liked, but then read that a murder occurred last week on Crowell Road. Isn't that in MI? Should I be concerned about the neighborhood?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: give me a break ()
Date: March 09, 2008 05:58PM

SL is all powerful, NOT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to laugh at the comments that South Lakes
> drove the agenda for this redistricting. SL has
> probably had the least influence of any school in
> the study for as many years as I have lived here.
> It's like calling President Bush stupid and then
> complaining that he tricked everyone.

well it sure as heck wasn't anyone not involved with SL

are you suggesting that stu did this all on his own without any consultation with the school or its ptsa?

no-one dragged the SL community through the dirt - people just pointed out that the school and some in its pyramid have very poor performance

you guys and gals claimed that was racism and classism - your neighbors never raised the issue

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: no, you give us a break ()
Date: March 09, 2008 06:17PM

give me a break Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL is all powerful, NOT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have to laugh at the comments that South
> Lakes
> > drove the agenda for this redistricting. SL
> has
> > probably had the least influence of any school
> in
> > the study for as many years as I have lived
> here.
> > It's like calling President Bush stupid and
> then
> > complaining that he tricked everyone.
>
> well it sure as heck wasn't anyone not involved
> with SL
>
> are you suggesting that stu did this all on his
> own without any consultation with the school or
> its ptsa?
>
> no-one dragged the SL community through the dirt -
> people just pointed out that the school and some
> in its pyramid have very poor performance
>
> you guys and gals claimed that was racism and
> classism - your neighbors never raised the issue


I hate to break it to you, but the whole argument of how the socio-economic make up of the family affects performance and how the upper socio-economic strata perform better academically, and how people were concerned about housing values was not brought up by the SL community.

For related commentary see comments by C. Craig Morris, Ph. D. and Dan Carney, in the local newspapers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IBVeritas ()
Date: March 09, 2008 06:28PM

South Lakes Supporters: I urge you to abandon this thread. The horses here have been lead to water and won't drink. We're on to other, more constructive events, including work on the Welcoming Committee and scheduling visits and information opportunities. The dozens of families who are fine coming to South Lakes don't lurk here -- they're healthily preparing for a great new high school experience.

There's a reason the posts here are really dwindling. Only a few people are keeping up the negative drumbeat, and by posting here, we encourage them. Please. No more. Let this thread die a natural death.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The end ()
Date: March 09, 2008 06:39PM

IBVeritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Supporters: I urge you to abandon this
> thread. The horses here have been lead to water
> and won't drink. We're on to other, more
> constructive events, including work on the
> Welcoming Committee and scheduling visits and
> information opportunities. The dozens of families
> who are fine coming to South Lakes don't lurk here
> -- they're healthily preparing for a great new
> high school experience.
>
> There's a reason the posts here are really
> dwindling. Only a few people are keeping up the
> negative drumbeat, and by posting here, we
> encourage them. Please. No more. Let this thread
> die a natural death.


You are right - it's been real - time to move on. The end.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: huh? ()
Date: March 09, 2008 07:11PM

IBVeritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Supporters: I urge you to abandon this
> thread. The horses here have been lead to water
> and won't drink. We're on to other, more
> constructive events, including work on the
> Welcoming Committee and scheduling visits and
> information opportunities. The dozens of families
> who are fine coming to South Lakes don't lurk here
> -- they're healthily preparing for a great new
> high school experience.
>
> There's a reason the posts here are really
> dwindling. Only a few people are keeping up the
> negative drumbeat, and by posting here, we
> encourage them. Please. No more. Let this thread
> die a natural death.


Horses have been lead to water and won't drink.

You talk about mending fences and come up with such a insulting line. You think the South Lakes Education water is so precious. Look at your school and your scores for pete's sake.

Shame on you!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 09, 2008 07:17PM

huh? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IBVeritas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Supporters: I urge you to abandon
> this
> > thread. The horses here have been lead to water
> > and won't drink. We're on to other, more
> > constructive events, including work on the
> > Welcoming Committee and scheduling visits and
> > information opportunities. The dozens of
> families
> > who are fine coming to South Lakes don't lurk
> here
> > -- they're healthily preparing for a great new
> > high school experience.
> >
> > There's a reason the posts here are really
> > dwindling. Only a few people are keeping up the
> > negative drumbeat, and by posting here, we
> > encourage them. Please. No more. Let this
> thread
> > die a natural death.
>
>
> Horses have been lead to water and won't drink.
>
> You talk about mending fences and come up with
> such a insulting line. You think the South Lakes
> Education water is so precious. Look at your
> school and your scores for pete's sake.
>
> Shame on you!!


Yes, that was an insulting line, I agree and guess what? This thread most likely will continue on.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SOUTH LAKES FACTS ()
Date: March 09, 2008 07:29PM

WHO HAS FAILED THIS SCHOOL? STU GIBSON? THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BOARD? THE FCPS SYSTEM? THE STAFF AT SOUTH LAKES/

TAKE YOU PICK, THE NUMBERS TO NOT LIE.


School / Index 05 / Index 06 / Index 07 / two-year change

LANGLEY / 3.33 / 3.40 / 3.72 / 0.38
OAKTON / 2.76 / 3.11 / 3.33 / 0.57
CHANTILLY / 2.85 / 2.72 / 3.07 / 0.22
MADISON / 2.77 / 2.96 / 2.97 / 0.20
HERNDON / 2.40 / 2.85 / 2.87 / 0.47
MARSHALL / 2.33 / 2.49 / 2.63 / 0.30
SOUTH LAKES / 1.78 / 1.61 / 1.48 / -0.30



School Index 07

ROBINSON 2.88
MARSHALL 2.63
STUART 1.97
EDISON 1.63
MOUNT VERNON 1.54
LEE 1.54
SOUTH LAKES 1.48
ANNANDALE 1.39

DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A GREAT SCHOOL TO ME.


Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> huh? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > IBVeritas Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > South Lakes Supporters: I urge you to abandon
> > this
> > > thread. The horses here have been lead to
> water
> > > and won't drink. We're on to other, more
> > > constructive events, including work on the
> > > Welcoming Committee and scheduling visits and
> > > information opportunities. The dozens of
> > families
> > > who are fine coming to South Lakes don't lurk
> > here
> > > -- they're healthily preparing for a great
> new
> > > high school experience.
> > >
> > > There's a reason the posts here are really
> > > dwindling. Only a few people are keeping up
> the
> > > negative drumbeat, and by posting here, we
> > > encourage them. Please. No more. Let this
> > thread
> > > die a natural death.
> >
> >
> > Horses have been lead to water and won't drink.
> >
> > You talk about mending fences and come up with
> > such a insulting line. You think the South
> Lakes
> > Education water is so precious. Look at your
> > school and your scores for pete's sake.
> >
> > Shame on you!!
>
>
> Yes, that was an insulting line, I agree and guess
> what? This thread most likely will continue on.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: True Colors ()
Date: March 09, 2008 08:06PM

Comparing students to horses shows the true colors of SLHS. All they are interested is in warm bodies to fund their IB program which is used by a select few. Here is a link on the official south lakes HS site:

www.fcps.edu/SouthLakesHS/ib_program/results_history.htm

There they admit that in the entire history of IB at southlakes about 7 years now, only 187 students have got the IB diploma. Rest thousands are simply left out in the cold with no academic programs. Every additional student there would mean that the state and county $$ meant for that student can be taken away from that new student and given to the IB Diploma candidates. While brazenly doing this, the SB Members said that this is a public school system with equality. Their true colors can now be seen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Annoyed ()
Date: March 09, 2008 08:27PM

Oh here we go again! Apparently we are herd animals. I think I am going to throw up.

Obey the RD? After so many offensive comments like that -- not bloody likely.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ThrowOutGibson ()
Date: March 09, 2008 08:31PM

Until Stu Gibson is in office, he will treat everyone other than reston communities like crap.

Annoyed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh here we go again! Apparently we are herd
> animals. I think I am going to throw up.
>
> Obey the RD? After so many offensive comments
> like that -- not bloody likely.

Options: ReplyQuote
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