Mid Way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> seahawk'10 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You have nothing to be scared of.
> Unfortunately,
> > there is a lot of propaganda still going around
> > about SL. The school is NOTHING like what is
> > being publicized. Contrary to what everyone
> > believes - there are no metal detectors or
> gangs.
> > Had anyone bothered to visit the school,
> instead
> > of sit on their computers, they would know
> that.
> >
> > Your kids will be welcomed with arms WIDE open,
> > absolutely! Welcoming groups are being formed,
> > extra orientations, and the Taking Flight
> > peer-to-peer mentoring program (which I will be
> > part of next year) are making plans to welcome
> all
> > the new Seahawks. I was thrilled about the
> > mentoring program before RD, and even am more
> > proud and excited now.
> >
> > Please spread the truth to your friends and our
> > future Seahawks that there is nothing to be
> afraid
> > of. Feel free to come and visit us whenever
> and
> > see for yourself.
>
>
> This misses the point entirely and frankly sounds
> like hippy jive, Esalan-speak,..."follow the
> force, Luke." I'm sure South Lakes is a great
> place for those who have attended or are there.
> I'm glad for that and I'm pleased that the county
> put some serious cash into its upgrade. Long
> overdue. BUT, the school has been jammed down our
> throats and our Floris neighborhoods are being
> redistricted once again. This isn't about fear,
> nice people with a warm heart. While you're
> spreading the truth about the mellow mood at SL,
> also spread the truth that a part of the FM/Floris
> community is being displaced against its will.


Thank you for your understanding, and thank you for being civil in presenting your point of view

hmmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My guess is that Maria Allen is lnot ooking for
> any sympathy and should be acknowledged for her
> candor. If any parents deign to harbor beliefs
> that the school will eventually look to an AP
> program of any vitality, she is informing everyone
> to disabuse themselves of that notion - an honest
> piece of opinion, I would think. I would keep it
> in mind if pupil placing is an option those are
> considering.
>
> And in this vein, one would think that she would
> affirm that her position on this matter was
> largely one of self-interest - hardly an unusual
> thing in a democracy.


Actually, what I am saying is that I would not look to the school board to initiate or encourage the sort of AP-IB discussion that needs to happen. Nonetheless, a discussion about the merits and value of the AP and IB programs should take place. In fact, it should have taken place before IB replaced AP in any FCPS high school.

Parents should have the assurance that the advanced program at the high school was chosen only after very careful consideration and thorough analysis. Such an important decision should not be simply the choice of the principal and department chairs. Nor should the decision be left to the county instructional staff to decide behind closed doors, as is so often happens in Fairfax County.

With or without SB or staff support, we owe it to future high school families to initiate the discussion and thoroughly examine the best options for our high schools. I personally feel an obligation to future South Lakes families who feel understandably confused and uncertain.

Comparing AP and IB, to some degree, is comparing apples and oranges. But that can't be used as an excuse to forgo stacking up the costs and benefits of both programs against each other in order to come up with the solution that works best for our kids.

Ms. Allen,

In response to questions from the board, school staff recently noted that no one from the South Lakes community had expressed any concern about the lack of a full AP program to the staff. While that seems a bit disingenuous, it is a situation that can easily be altered.

In your capacity as an officer with the PTSA, would you be willing to have that group officially request on behalf of the school a study of parental preferences as regards advanced programs at South Lakes?

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ms. Allen,
>
> In response to questions from the board, school
> staff recently noted that no one from the South
> Lakes community had expressed any concern about
> the lack of a full AP program to the staff. While
> that seems a bit disingenuous, it is a situation
> that can easily be altered.
>
> In your capacity as an officer with the PTSA,
> would you be willing to have that group officially
> request on behalf of the school a study of
> parental preferences as regards advanced programs
> at South Lakes?


Ms. Allen

Ball is in your court now.

Mid Way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> seahawk'10 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You have nothing to be scared of.
> Unfortunately,
> > there is a lot of propaganda still going around
> > about SL. The school is NOTHING like what is
> > being publicized. Contrary to what everyone
> > believes - there are no metal detectors or
> gangs.
> > Had anyone bothered to visit the school,
> instead
> > of sit on their computers, they would know
> that.
> >
> > Your kids will be welcomed with arms WIDE open,
> > absolutely! Welcoming groups are being formed,
> > extra orientations, and the Taking Flight
> > peer-to-peer mentoring program (which I will be
> > part of next year) are making plans to welcome
> all
> > the new Seahawks. I was thrilled about the
> > mentoring program before RD, and even am more
> > proud and excited now.
> >
> > Please spread the truth to your friends and our
> > future Seahawks that there is nothing to be
> afraid
> > of. Feel free to come and visit us whenever
> and
> > see for yourself.
>
>
> This misses the point entirely and frankly sounds
> like hippy jive, Esalan-speak,..."follow the
> force, Luke." I'm sure South Lakes is a great
> place for those who have attended or are there.
> I'm glad for that and I'm pleased that the county
> put some serious cash into its upgrade. Long
> overdue. BUT, the school has been jammed down our
> throats and our Floris neighborhoods are being
> redistricted once again. This isn't about fear,
> nice people with a warm heart. While you're
> spreading the truth about the mellow mood at SL,
> also spread the truth that a part of the FM/Floris
> community is being displaced against its will.


and Madison North which is being displaced at all three levels against its will

Maria Allen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Comparing AP and IB, to some degree, is comparing
> apples and oranges.

Not at all - its about comparing one way of challenging and preparing kids for college against another - except that the victims of this RD have had the choice made for them

If they're apples and oranges, why is the decision randomly based on geography and SB whim-of-the-day?

IB Diploma is clearly a good challenging program, but so is a good AP roster and for kids heading into the GDP- and job-generating hard sciences on which Fairfax's economy depends, its a valid question as to which is most appropriate

happy happy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mid Way Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > seahawk'10 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > You have nothing to be scared of.
> > Unfortunately,
> > > there is a lot of propaganda still going
> around
> > > about SL. The school is NOTHING like what is
> > > being publicized. Contrary to what everyone
> > > believes - there are no metal detectors or
> > gangs.
> > > Had anyone bothered to visit the school,
> > instead
> > > of sit on their computers, they would know
> > that.
> > >
> > > Your kids will be welcomed with arms WIDE
> open,
> > > absolutely! Welcoming groups are being
> formed,
> > > extra orientations, and the Taking Flight
> > > peer-to-peer mentoring program (which I will
> be
> > > part of next year) are making plans to
> welcome
> > all
> > > the new Seahawks. I was thrilled about the
> > > mentoring program before RD, and even am more
> > > proud and excited now.
> > >
> > > Please spread the truth to your friends and
> our
> > > future Seahawks that there is nothing to be
> > afraid
> > > of. Feel free to come and visit us whenever
> > and
> > > see for yourself.
> >
> >
> > This misses the point entirely and frankly
> sounds
> > like hippy jive, Esalan-speak,..."follow the
> > force, Luke." I'm sure South Lakes is a great
> > place for those who have attended or are there.
>
> > I'm glad for that and I'm pleased that the
> county
> > put some serious cash into its upgrade. Long
> > overdue. BUT, the school has been jammed down
> our
> > throats and our Floris neighborhoods are being
> > redistricted once again. This isn't about
> fear,
> > nice people with a warm heart. While you're
> > spreading the truth about the mellow mood at
> SL,
> > also spread the truth that a part of the
> FM/Floris
> > community is being displaced against its will.
>
>
> and Madison North which is being displaced at all
> three levels against its will


I don't htink this young person is old know to know hippy jive :)

BOYCOTT RESTON Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BOYCOTT RESTON!!


But don't do it until after the CAPS event tonight at Lake Anne RESTON Community Center.

Maria has asked a good question. How can parents start a discussion about the pros and cons of the IB program and AP courses, in a way that cannot be ignored by the FCPS staff and School Board members?

FCPS has never given parents a complete and accurate picture of the pros and cons about different aspects of the IB program as it currently is implemented at South Lakes and other schools in Fairfax County, and as IB has been implemented (differently and arguably better) outside Fairfax County. Many IB schools are sought after and well-regarded. The United World Colleges are highly selective, free, 2-year IB boarding schools. People move into the City of Falls Church so that their children can attend its IB public school. Montgomery County students vie for the right to attend the IB magnet at Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, MD. To understand why so many people seek out those non-FCPS IB programs, it's worth learning more about how IB has been implemented differently, and then ask whether FCPS will shift gears. Those adjustments might include offering some "bread and butter" AP courses, to complement the IB classes.

Westfield Dad and others have done a good job of analyzing the content of selected IB and AP math and science courses. Many more posters have provided information about what IB and AP test scores are required for specific colleges to offer placement credit in different subjects, and the percentage of FCPS students who have historically done that well on those IB HL and AP tests.

More parents need to understand these types of differences, rather than relying upon FCPS staff to tell them about the pros and cons. Armed with that information, they will be better positioned to lobby effectively for whatever they decide is best.

The School Board's motion suggested that students in IB classes take AP tests. In the past, FCPS staff has insisted that HL Math is at least if not more advanced than AP Calculus BC and that SL Math is as advanced as AP Calculus AB. Presumably, this means they will have no problem encouraging all the SL Math students take the AP Calculus AB exam and all the HL Math students to take the AP Calculus BC test. The resulting test scores could provide data that shows whether this is in fact the case. Similar studies could be done for other IB classes. Perhaps more FCPS students would score 6 ot 7 on IB tests if they had HL-only and SL-only classes, instead of classes that combined SL and HL students.

Why not work on these types of issues, which will help current and future South Lakes students?


Maria Allen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB is a very complex – perhaps unnecessarily so.
> I know many parents who love the program but only
> a few, aside from the program administrators, who
> claim to fully understand it. The IB website
> offers more propaganda than information. If the
> staff wishes to sell the program, they should
> first create and make available a lengthy manual
> that first explains it fully. Most school board
> members know relatively little about the details
> of the program, yet based mostly on staff
> recommendation , they decide who gets AP and who
> gets IB.
>
> Unfortunately, what has been lacking all along is
> an intelligent and serious public discussion about
> the merits and value of each program. Such a
> discussion should have been encouraged before the
> IB program was introduced in several high schools,
> but it was discouraged and did not take place. I
> do not expect that such a discussion will be
> encouraged now, but I believe it needs to happen
> now. The million-dollar question is how.
>
> Perhaps some of you have some thoughts on this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2008 06:41PM by APorIBMom.

To all future Seahawk families, those both already in the pyramid and those who will be coming, I encourage you to continue the discussion about AP and IB. There are many families in our community with children of all ages who will welcome it. South Lakes was already an IB school by the time my children got there (it was an AP school when we bought our home). My children did very well with the IB program, and I am sure they would have thrived with AP as well. They are both good programs and I am certain there is a way to make sure that they both offer what your children need and require.

What a perfect time to begin this discussion, which has been at the forefront of the debate. I think the SB was acknowledging last night that they can no longer ignore it. I suggest a strong grassroots movement that begins with all of you.

One thing I have learned from this experience is how fortunate we are to live in an area with so many intelligent and committed parents who truly care about the education of their children. If you can't drive the debate, no one can.

Good luck to all of you. I am certain that your children will be great, no matter where they are.

Since you hate Oakton so much, find a way to pupil place into Chantilly. Shouldn't be hard. Just be thankful that at least your property values didn't just take a dive ... if anything, RD helped you in that regard. I feel much sorrier for those who have to find a way to wrangle their kids out of a bad situation while taking an equity hit in an already crappy market.

kathy smith despiser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, I am enthralled to be sending my daughter to
> a school with little to no social morals, a bigger
> sense of entitlement that is larger than Langley's
> and the icing on top of the cake is that Oakton is
> is rampant in student drug and alcohol use. So,
> yes, I will continue my histrionics because we are
> more than pleased with Chantilly, our short
> commute and a great community.
>
>
> Oh please Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kathy smith despiser Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > She will need lots of therapy to assist her
> in
> > her
> > > flagrant absence of a Conscious. She sold
> out
> > the
> > > Navy Community under a bus all for what?
> > >
> > > NavyDoesNotGet Out Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > NavyGetsOut,
> > > >
> > > > Well, what happen? You all forfeiting your
> > > > agreement to pay for Kathy's post-vote
> shrink
> > > > visit?
> >
> > Under what bus? The Oakton bus? Please, no
> one
> > is going waste pity on you for being
> redistricted
> > to a higher-ranked, more prestigious school.
> The
> > histrionics ought to be reserved for those who
> > have to go to crappy IB SLHS against their will.

To parents and students

If the reason for the Western County boundary study was to put students into South Lakes because it is under capacity, then tell me why South Lakes and why not Falls Church who is under capacity by over 700 students, why not Lake Braddock who is under capacity by over 500 students, why not West Potomac who is under capacity by over 800 students and why not Hayfield who is under capacity by over 600 students.

Now you must do redistricting in all of the above under capacity schools in order to put students in these schools.

I believe that is what the SB intends to do.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that is what the SB intends to do.

That should put their re-election prospects between slim and none.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that is what the SB intends to do.


Divide and conquer, eh? They know a countywide study would be impossible in terms of getting what they want, so they'll do it piecemeal, cherrypick middle class neighborhoods to mask the problems at the "section 8" schools and exclude the real movers and shakers from the debate. Smart. Evil, but smart.

When I bought my house in Oakton I looked up all the data on Fairfax schools. Certainly Fairfax school are the best. BUT I don't want my son or daughter to ever have to talk with a black, Hispanic or Jewish person.

My son and daughter got in trouble wih drugs. I paid good money for this new future for them. It's called Oakton High School! Yes, Oakton does have a prescription drug problem, but that's legal. As a psych PhD, everybody does drugs.

I will never let my kids go to SL, Chantilly or Westfields. To many blacks and Jewish people.

My kids should only talk with white Catholics!

BOYCOTT RESTON Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BOYCOTT RESTON!!


I, for one, will be going to Whole Foods in Fair Lakes from now on.

Respect this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> America Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Grow up Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > FACTS Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > After 5 months of bull shit from the school
> > > board,
> > > > they just screwed thousands of parents and
> > > > students who do not what to go to SL. The
> SB
> > > did
> > > > what they wanted to do from the start and
> not
> > > what
> > > > the people wanted.
> > > >
> > > > You could roll over and play dead, that's
> > what
> > > the
> > > > SB wants you to do, or you can make this A
> > > NIGHT
> > > > TO REMEMBER and fight the SB over the next
> > > three
> > > > years.
> > > >
> > > > I for one will not give up until the ten
> who
> > > voted
> > > > for the redistricting are voted off the
> > board.
> > > >
> > > > You need to put together a plan of action
> and
> > > kept
> > > > the pressure on with phone calls, letters,
> > > emails
> > > > and do what needs to be done in order to
> win
> > > the
> > > > war.
> > > >
> > > > Recalls, lawsuits, vote down school bonds,
> > > pupil
> > > > place out of SL, become a large watch dog
> > group
> > > > and hound the SB on every issue, attend SB
> > > meeting
> > > > and get in their face for three minutes.
> > > >
> > > > Make them redistrict all schools that are
> > under
> > > > capacity, such as;
> > > >
> > > > Falls Church, over 700 empty seats, Mount
> > > Vernon,
> > > > over 800 empty seats, Lake Braddock, over
> 500
> > > > empty seats, Hayfield, over 500 empty
> seats.
> > > >
> > > > Stop them from building the new middle
> school
> > > for
> > > > south county, stop them from moving ahead
> > with
> > > > Gathhouse 2, another administration
> building
> > > that
> > > > they want, watch every dollar that they
> want
> > to
> > > > spend.
> > > >
> > > > Make the next three years hell on wheels
> for
> > > this
> > > > SB, SO THAT THEY REMEMBER THE NIGHT THAT
> THEY
> > > > F---ed the people of Western Fairfax
> County.
> > > >
> > > > Remember, it is not over until the fat lady
> > > > sings.
> > > >
> > > > PS S. Gibson is a little man who talks down
> > to
> > > > everone who does not kiss his butt. He is
> our
> > > > biggest problem and he has been one for
> over
> > 12
> > > > years. He needs to go as soon ASAP and lets
> > > make
> > > > sure that this little man who insults
> > everyone
> > > is
> > > > voted out next time.
> > >
> > >
> > > That's a real grown up, intelligent solution.
>
> > > Didn't get what you wanted, so now screw
> > everyone
> > > else, whether they were in the fight or therr
> > > schools had absolutely nothing to do with any
> > of
> > > this - screw the whole system, and tie up
> theri
> > > time and resources on OLD news.
> > >
> > > Why don't you just use this time, resoureces,
> > > money, and energy into doing something
> positive
> > > like figuring out given the situation, how to
> > make
> > > things better for EVERYONE and how to move
> on,
> > and
> > > how to help heal the hurt on ALL sides. And
> > no,
> > > we on the pro-RD side are not any happier
> than
> > it
> > > has pitted neighbor against neighbor, but
> > > sometimes, this just happens.
> > >
> > > You complain about Stu and everyone else and
> > how
> > > he talks down everyone else, but you appear
> to
> > be
> > > just hateful and self-serving.
> > >
> > > You obviously did not go to SL, or else you
> > would
> > > know how to interact with and respect others
> > with
> > > different values and different view points.
> > Good
> > > thing too you did not go there and your kids
> > won't
> > > go there, our kids don't need people like you
> > > bringing negative energy not only into our
> > school,
> > > but into the whole FCPS.
> > >
> > > Yes, it is your kids, but it is not your
> > schools
> > > and it is not your choice either - it is the
> > > COUNTY's. Remember that. You want your
> choice
> > > and your school, that is fine, and you have
> > every
> > > right to it, but just don't do it on everyone
> > > else's nickel. My taxes pay for one of the
> top
> > > school systems in the US, and I like it that
> > way,
> > > not for your private school paid for with
> > public
> > > dollars.
> > >
> > > Grow up - will you! Enough!
> >
> >
> > It's only Enough because you got your way. How
> > nice for you. But thankfully in America we can
> > all get our right to our day in court. But,
> > you're lucky. We'll have to pay for our day in
> > court. Taxpayers in this county will pay for
> > yours.
> >
> > And, I haven't seen evidence that SL students
> (or
> > their parents)--current or past--have the
> market
> > on respecful manners. It's certainly not
> obvious
> > on this Forum.
>
>
>
> "Respectful" manners, with a "t", you dumb bunny.
>
>
> Learn to spell before you file a
> waste-of-time,waste-of-money narcissistic lawsuit.


Now, aren't we getting small? Since when do we pick on each other's typos? (Is this the good manners you were talking about earlier?) Do I smell fear? Do I smell guilt? Don't tell me you're concerned about a lawsuit? Why should you care if we waste our money? But what if it isn't a waste? What if there is something to be discovered?

Concerded White Catholic Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I bought my house in Oakton I looked up all
> the data on Fairfax schools. Certainly Fairfax
> school are the best. BUT I don't want my son or
> daughter to ever have to talk with a black,
> Hispanic or Jewish person.
>
> My son and daughter got in trouble wih drugs. I
> paid good money for this new future for them. It's
> called Oakton High School! Yes, Oakton does have
> a prescription drug problem, but that's legal. As
> a psych PhD, everybody does drugs.
>
> I will never let my kids go to SL, Chantilly or
> Westfields. To many blacks and Jewish people.
>
> My kids should only talk with white Catholics!


Kid, get off this blog. Not even the SLPTA would write something like this. You're way too obvious.

1. Fairfax County Public Schools:


A county that is supposedly one of the richest in the COUNTRY, yet fails to administer doors to classrooms and bathroom stalls or textbooks that aren't at least 8 years old unless you were born in the right year.

Again I ask you to reach out South Lakes

My child got it today. He can not pupil place and his friends can. You see some schools are requiring a minimum GPA in 8th grade to continue with AP.

Who knew? Here we are one more promise one more lie. We dont hate you SLHS. I watched my child cry today. I cant take this! This is the RAW truth of this deal. A child that has grown up with these kids will now go it alone. South Lakes my children READ this POST. BACK THE F UP! Cant you get it for one minute?

How do you explain to a kid that it is a choice between a new house or a new school? Neither sits well. This is a VERY DIFFICULT time for these kids and for us. DO THE RIGHT THING!

The first battle may be lost, but now the enemies are clear - No time to rest We have to work hard to boot out these 10 moralizing holier than thou attitude members from the SB. The next election is far away but dont let time dull this slap on your face. They did this after the elections to make sure the public forgets with time their actions.
We will not forget !!!

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ms. Allen,
>
> In response to questions from the board, school
> staff recently noted that no one from the South
> Lakes community had expressed any concern about
> the lack of a full AP program to the staff. While
> that seems a bit disingenuous, it is a situation
> that can easily be altered.
>
> In your capacity as an officer with the PTSA,
> would you be willing to have that group officially
> request on behalf of the school a study of
> parental preferences as regards advanced programs
> at South Lakes?


First, I should restate what I said a few posts back - I am posting here as a parent and expressing my views only. I can't say how other PTSA board members would respond to your suggestion. However, I believe that one needs to study and compare the programs first so that parents have the information to make an informed judgement.

How involved would you want the PTSA to be? I would suggest some separation for the sake of objectivity might be preferable.

“How do you explain to a kid that it is a choice between a new house or a new school?”

Stop – you are choosing a new house over your child’s education? I understand how upset you are about the RD, and I agree it was awful what the SB did to Oakton, but from what you are saying – you decided to buy a new house in an area that is now being redistricted to South Lakes. You need to get your priority straight – maybe you should think about helping out your kid get his GPA higher and live a little bit more within your means.

STOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again I ask you to reach out South Lakes
>
> My child got it today. He can not pupil place and
> his friends can. You see some schools are
> requiring a minimum GPA in 8th grade to continue
> with AP.
>
> Who knew? Here we are one more promise one more
> lie. We dont hate you SLHS. I watched my child
> cry today. I cant take this! This is the RAW
> truth of this deal. A child that has grown up
> with these kids will now go it alone. South Lakes
> my children READ this POST. BACK THE F UP! Cant
> you get it for one minute?
>
> How do you explain to a kid that it is a choice
> between a new house or a new school? Neither sits
> well. This is a VERY DIFFICULT time for these
> kids and for us. DO THE RIGHT THING!

I can understand how hard this is. I once had to move to avoid a school.
You can pupil place for classes other than AP. Look at course offering at different schools, do your homework and then apply for pupil placement for other classes. Worst case you can always move back into an area that still goes to Oakton. Yes that is difficult on you but put your children first - Where there is a will there is a way. As parent you have to shield your children from this School Board actions. No one else will look after their interests other than you.

.............. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “How do you explain to a kid that it is a choice
> between a new house or a new school?”
>
> Stop – you are choosing a new house over your
> child’s education? I understand how upset you are
> about the RD, and I agree it was awful what the SB
> did to Oakton, but from what you are saying – you
> decided to buy a new house in an area that is now
> being redistricted to South Lakes. You need to get
> your priority straight – maybe you should think
> about helping out your kid get his GPA higher and
> live a little bit more within your means.

I suspect that you are (willfully?) misreading - I think he's saying "I either stay where I am and get RD'd to a new school (SL) or I have to move (new house) to the redefined oakton"

Maria Allen writes:

"First, I should restate what I said a few posts back - I am posting here as a parent and expressing my views only. I can't say how other PTSA board members would respond to your suggestion. However, I believe that one needs to study and compare the programs first so that parents have the information to make an informed judgement.

How involved would you want the PTSA to be? I would suggest some separation for the sake of objectivity might be preferable."

I believe the school staff would be especially moved by a request intiated by the SLPTSA. It would also garner considerable goodwill for the organization, which has in the past been willing to take on positions that at least gave the appearance of lacking objectivity on the boundary study.

Remember, we are not saying change programs...we are saying that it would be good to mention to the school staff that it would be useful to see if the current programs are what the parents are most in favor of. Clearly that survey could be combined with education sessions to portray both programs accurately.

Trust me I am doing all that I can. I am MI not Oakton. Madison is OVER ENROLLED. They will not accept their own. They have told me confidentially that we will be under a microscope. My child did not have a 3.5 this year which they now claim to be a REQUIREMENT NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK get it! So now we go from 14 kids rising to SLHS ninth grade from MI to 6 kids.

I have called a realtor today. I have taken my son to SLHS for a tour. I have met with the Principal. Still I have a kid who is falling apart. He feels completely ISOLATED and I am doing what I can to keep it together but am not doing so well.

STOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So now we go from 14 kids rising to
> SLHS ninth grade from MI to 6 kids.
>

Over the next few days, quantify what's happening in MI. Put together a strong argument and formally appeal to the SB as a community based on the practical observed impact e.g. at the public input element of the next SB meeting, with a united position.

The vote was close based on the potential impact and the tiny benefit - if you can show that the impact has been higher and the benefit lower than the SB expected you may have a case that they will listen to.

My sense is that once navy failed in the amendment, voting to support MI would have put the whole RD at risk, which was unacceptable to the SB - that's no longer true

Janie supported the motion to withdraw MI - hold her feet to the fire to support an appeal and work with the others that supported the original amendment

Stu got what he wanted and may now be prepared to accept that he doesn't need MI.

Its a long shot, but what have you to lose?

STOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trust me I am doing all that I can. I am MI not
> Oakton. Madison is OVER ENROLLED. They will not
> accept their own. They have told me
> confidentially that we will be under a microscope.
> My child did not have a 3.5 this year which they
> now claim to be a REQUIREMENT NUDGE NUDGE WINK
> WINK get it! So now we go from 14 kids rising to
> SLHS ninth grade from MI to 6 kids.
>
> I have called a realtor today. I have taken my
> son to SLHS for a tour. I have met with the
> Principal. Still I have a kid who is falling
> apart. He feels completely ISOLATED and I am
> doing what I can to keep it together but am not
> doing so well.

Here is one link, which you may have seen already.

http://www.fcps.edu/ss/student-transfer/

I see so many families in the same condition as yours. Have never seen such horrible human beings such as these faixfaxcounty SBMs

He has some SLHS friends, 2 or 3 to be precise. They called today. He said I dont want to talk about what I am going to do.

We met with a realtor to find out what is available closer in to Madison. This kid has had his struggles, havent we all but his have caused a little extra sensitivity on our parts perhaps. Hey maybe he is just some spoiled affluent kid? The kind of kid that has broken bones and never cried. The kind of kid who never asks for a thing. The kind of kid that couldnt be in a room with us today or couldnt talk about this when he found out that Pupil Placement may not be an option, the kind of kid who teared up.

I am the kind of mom that has fought hard for this kid. Now I sit blogging to strangers so upset I am paralyzed. You see he is the kind of kid that has known loss and this is the kind of thing that once again demonstrates the lack of control that any of us have, this is the kind of thing that knocks you down and says SEE you just never know!

diagnosis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This message board really demonstrates the power
> of self-delusion. There's people on the this
> board that have spent hundreds, if not thousands,
> of hours whipping themselves into a frenzy over
> very little.
>
> You lost the election in November, you lost the
> school board vote last night, and will lose any
> bogus lawsuits. Any possibility that it will ever
> sink in that you're just plain wrong?
>
> For the sake of the Fairfax community, please go
> back to the regular OCD behaviors like excessive
> hand washing, over-cleaning your house, etc.

Good point. Anyone who is on the minority side of any issue should stop complaining and stop trying to change things. Anyone who disagrees with what the government is doing, should just shut up and accept whatever the government decides to allow you to have.
No more complaining about anything the government does! Just be happy that they let you have anything and anything that they do. They should be allowed to spend your money in any way that they choose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2008 09:47PM by Neen.

STOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He has some SLHS friends, 2 or 3 to be precise.
> They called today. He said I dont want to talk
> about what I am going to do.
>
> We met with a realtor to find out what is
> available closer in to Madison. This kid has had
> his struggles, havent we all but his have caused a
> little extra sensitivity on our parts perhaps.
> Hey maybe he is just some spoiled affluent kid?
> The kind of kid that has broken bones and never
> cried. The kind of kid who never asks for a
> thing. The kind of kid that couldnt be in a room
> with us today or couldnt talk about this when he
> found out that Pupil Placement may not be an
> option, the kind of kid who teared up.
>
> I am the kind of mom that has fought hard for this
> kid. Now I sit blogging to strangers so upset I
> am paralyzed. You see he is the kind of kid that
> has known loss and this is the kind of thing that
> once again demonstrates the lack of control that
> any of us have, this is the kind of thing that
> knocks you down and says SEE you just never know!


Find out whether other students in their base schools can take AP with similar scores to your child. If they do, then argue and fight your case with FCPS. They cannot deny AP to your child if they are admitting base school students with the same GPA as yours

STOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He has some SLHS friends, 2 or 3 to be precise.
> They called today. He said I dont want to talk
> about what I am going to do.
>
> We met with a realtor to find out what is
> available closer in to Madison. This kid has had
> his struggles, havent we all but his have caused a
> little extra sensitivity on our parts perhaps.
> Hey maybe he is just some spoiled affluent kid?
> The kind of kid that has broken bones and never
> cried. The kind of kid who never asks for a
> thing. The kind of kid that couldnt be in a room
> with us today or couldnt talk about this when he
> found out that Pupil Placement may not be an
> option, the kind of kid who teared up.
>
> I am the kind of mom that has fought hard for this
> kid. Now I sit blogging to strangers so upset I
> am paralyzed. You see he is the kind of kid that
> has known loss and this is the kind of thing that
> once again demonstrates the lack of control that
> any of us have, this is the kind of thing that
> knocks you down and says SEE you just never know!

I am sorry that you, and your child, are going through this. It certainly isn't fair. I guess we all know now that we cannot depend on the government to provide what we need for children. As school board member Liz Bradsher said last night, parents have no choice in government schools. We just have to accept whatever they decide to give us. She said that the schools do not belong to us. We know that now.

>>>>Find out whether other students in their base schools can take AP with similar scores to your child. If they do, then argue and fight your case with FCPS. They cannot deny AP to your child if they are admitting base school students with the same GPA as yours.<<<

A student can take an AP course. They can't set up any criteria. That is NOT policy in FCPS. Several years ago AP classes were opened to everyone with the hope that ALL students would take at least one AP class.

Children can enroll in AP schools beginning in 9th grade, long before the child would actually enroll in any AP course.

STOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trust me I am doing all that I can. I am MI not
> Oakton. Madison is OVER ENROLLED. They will not
> accept their own. They have told me
> confidentially that we will be under a microscope.
> My child did not have a 3.5 this year which they
> now claim to be a REQUIREMENT NUDGE NUDGE WINK
> WINK get it! So now we go from 14 kids rising to
> SLHS ninth grade from MI to 6 kids.
>
> I have called a realtor today. I have taken my
> son to SLHS for a tour. I have met with the
> Principal. Still I have a kid who is falling
> apart. He feels completely ISOLATED and I am
> doing what I can to keep it together but am not
> doing so well.

GPA is NOT a requirement for transfer to any school. Madison is making up their own rules and they cannot do that. They think that if they tell you erroneous things like that, you will believe them and go away. Do NOT do that! Apply to Madison for the AP program. If the principal denies the transfer, appeal to the cluster office. If that doesn't work, kick it up another notch, call Tina Hone and Raney. There is NO GPA policy for transfer. I bet Hone will be happy to make them enforce policy and not make up their own rules. If you are persistent enough, they will eventually get sick of you, get sick of spending time on you, and give you what you want. Every bureaucracy works that way. Just keep after them, they'll eventually cave, rather than continue to make work for themselves.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> STOP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Trust me I am doing all that I can. I am MI
> not
> > Oakton. Madison is OVER ENROLLED. They will
> not
> > accept their own. They have told me
> > confidentially that we will be under a
> microscope.
> > My child did not have a 3.5 this year which
> they
> > now claim to be a REQUIREMENT NUDGE NUDGE WINK
> > WINK get it! So now we go from 14 kids rising
> to
> > SLHS ninth grade from MI to 6 kids.
> >
> > I have called a realtor today. I have taken my
> > son to SLHS for a tour. I have met with the
> > Principal. Still I have a kid who is falling
> > apart. He feels completely ISOLATED and I am
> > doing what I can to keep it together but am not
> > doing so well.
>
> GPA is NOT a requirement for transfer to any
> school. Madison is making up their own rules and
> they cannot do that. They think that if they tell
> you erroneous things like that, you will believe
> them and go away. Do NOT do that! Apply to
> Madison for the AP program. If the principal
> denies the transfer, appeal to the cluster office.
> If that doesn't work, kick it up another notch,
> call Tina Hone and Raney. There is NO GPA policy
> for transfer. I bet Hone will be happy to make
> them enforce policy and not make up their own
> rules. If you are persistent enough, they will
> eventually get sick of you, get sick of spending
> time on you, and give you what you want. Every
> bureaucracy works that way. Just keep after them,
> they'll eventually cave, rather than continue to
> make work for themselves.


Neen, you are right. I re read every single form and page on pupil placement and there is no policy on 3.5 GPA!!!. This must be another conspiracy from Stu Gibson and his 9 yes man SBMs to force students into SLHS.
Looks like we will have to hire a lawyer to represent us while applying for pupil placements now.

STOP , can you confirm that Madison HS told you that 3.5 GPA wont be allowed to pupil place?

>>>To SL Parents:

1. You won. Try being gracious instead of self-righteous. Honey attracts more bees than piss and vinegar.

2. You won in name only. Like usual, you were played for Stu's stooges. You went ahead and decided to trust a guy who let South Lakes and many of its feeder schools wither on the vine for years. Then, you think he's going to be your savior, but he's not. Why? Because

1. He endlessly antagonized everyone who disagreed with him and hurled insults. You thought this helped you but it didn't. SL parents always did make a lot of good points, but you don't need someone as one-sided and obnoxious as he is to take your side when your points stand on their own merits.

2. With IB being in for at least the next 5 years, many people will pupil place out, and given the number of spaces at available AP high schools, you won't be able to do anything about it. And even many SL parents feel betrayed they don't have a say in AP v IB.

3. Whatever PR job FCPS does with IB is useless because this process has shown their data to be worthless and untrustworthy.

4. In the meantime, Stu and FCPS won't improve Hughes or the feeder schools because you are the ones jumping up and down pretending their are no problems whatsoever notwithstanding data showing that there is.

So, SL, continue to gloat and antagonize people. Call them racist. Go on and gloat all you want and make yourselves feel better. But winning isn't about one day, it's about the long term, and bottom line -- you lost and you did it to yourselves. You are not going to get the numbers you think you will out of this, and you'll wake up 5 years from now pretending it's all becasue everyone is a bunch of mean racists without understanding how to extend a fig leaf by offering AP or endless gloating on your moral superiority antagonizes people even more.<<<

Well said. They JUST DON'T GET IT, and they never will.
They've won the battle, but lost the war, and it has nothing to do with racism. When will they stop beating that long dead horse, and look at the REAL problem, themselves and their narrow, elitist, views, that are not open to the opinions of anyone but themselves?

I am sure that they will be very happy in their brand new school, in their little IB classes, discussing how awful everyone is who did not show up at South Lakes, continuing to call them nasty names, from the inside of their little elitist IB bubble.

Enjoy!

Thank you for the info I will try what you suggested.

Yes I can confirm I was told that a 3.5 GPA was a requirement for my eighth grader. He must have averaged 3.5 GPA for the entire year and I must provide a report card along with a signed Curricular Transfer form. Failing an approval I could alterately supply a pyschologists letter with a TREATMENT plan. I am interested in a curricular transfer not a pyschological evaluation. It just gets crazier and crazier, pardon the pun!

When my son as at Madison they tried a similar thing with me and another parent. They tried to tell us that there was "Madison policy" which somehow superseded FCPS policy. Total baloney. We kicked it upstairs to the area office who hemmed and hawed until the other mom contacted her school board member who called Madison and told them that they had to use the county policy and could not make up their own policy. I have NO doubt that Madison and Oakton have been told to discourage pupil placement next year by those who have been redistricted into of South Lakes. Stu and staff desperately want this to work and they want to force as many students as possible into South Lakes. For some parents it will be effective if Madison tells them some silly lie about policy, but it won't work for many, since most parents today are too smart to believe their foolish lies. They also know that policy is on the internet. Parents also know that all bureaucrats will eventually cut their their work load and hassles by giving in. Why not? It's not like they're going to get a bonus for every child they keep out of Madison and force into South Lakes.

STOP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes I can confirm I was told that a 3.5 GPA was a
> requirement for my eighth grader. He must have
> averaged 3.5 GPA for the entire year and I must
> provide a report card along with a signed
> Curricular Transfer form. Failing an approval I
> could alterately supply a pyschologists letter
> with a TREATMENT plan. I am interested in a
> curricular transfer not a pyschological
> evaluation. It just gets crazier and crazier,
> pardon the pun!

Who the heck told you THAT?!

I suppose they are saying that if you are applying for a transfer for social or emotional issues, you have to have a psychologist confirm that he has those problems.

SOOOOO.......Madison is saying that they will only accept students who are excellent students in 8th grade, which would be primarily girls, OR students whose parents can afford to see a psychologist for a few sessions. Lovely. That sure sounds like discrimination to me. Call Tina Hone if Madison persists with this. Even if your child isn't African American, I am sure that she understands discrimination when she hears it.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>Find out whether other students in their base
> schools can take AP with similar scores to your
> child. If they do, then argue and fight your case
> with FCPS. They cannot deny AP to your child if
> they are admitting base school students with the
> same GPA as yours.<<<
>
> A student can take an AP course. They can't set
> up any criteria. That is NOT policy in FCPS.
> Several years ago AP classes were opened to
> everyone with the hope that ALL students would
> take at least one AP class.
>
> Children can enroll in AP schools beginning in 9th
> grade, long before the child would actually enroll
> in any AP course.

Policy and actual laws do not always matter when dealing with site based administrators or incompetent beaurocrats in FCPS. If this child or any other is not allowed to pupil place based on non-existent criteria then my best suggestion is for the parent to file a civil rights discrimination complaint with OCR and the state of Virginia.

Not going Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's the plan to personally sue Elizabeth
> Vandenberg--and jack up her personal legal bills?

Stu would be right by her side, defending her every step of the way.

>>>Policy and actual laws do not always matter when dealing with site based administrators or incompetent bureaucrats in FCPS. If this child or any other is not allowed to pupil place based on non-existent criteria then my best suggestion is for the parent to file a civil rights discrimination complaint with OCR and the state of Virginia.<<<

Schools will cave long before that is necessary. Once a school knows that a parent will not back down, will continue to push for what they want, they will give in to stop the extra hassles for themselves. Staff has no reason to care if Stu Gibson or South Lakes is happy.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> they do, then argue and fight your

> >... A student can take an AP course. They can't
> set
> > up any criteria. That is NOT policy in FCPS.
> > Several years ago AP classes were opened to
> > everyone with the hope that ALL students would
> > take at least one AP class.
> >
> > Children can enroll in AP schools beginning in
> 9th
> > grade, long before the child would actually
> enroll
> > in any AP course.
>
> Policy and actual laws do not always matter when
> dealing with site based administrators or
> incompetent beaurocrats in FCPS. If this child or
> any other is not allowed to pupil place based on
> non-existent criteria then my best suggestion is
> for the parent to file a civil rights
> discrimination complaint with OCR and the state of
> Virginia.

Madison and South Lakes both have ED centers. They divvy up the kids by base elementary school. If they try the psychologist route FCPS could be a beast and try to dump the kid into Cedar Lane.

When I started this blog it was all about selling two houses we flipped in Oakton.

We closed the second deal today to very a nice couple. Net profit was $520,000 dollars in a down market.

The couple was going to buy a house in Reston on one of the lakes. I simply said "Oh Reston? yeah you can buy there, but do you have kids? You might want to check out this forum."

Sucks to be people who fall for this shit, thanks! We made the sale and are now rich bitch!

Suckers!

Yo. hey when do da new white ho's get here to da Lakes?

Me and Antuwan have BIG welcomes ready fo da bitches

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been very disappointed with the charade
> that took place yesterday night on the so call
> vote for this option.
>
> School board members saying that the process has
> not been perfect but they have to vote on it
> because they feel like they have to do something
> just shows how divided the DB members were. Brad
> Center then saying, please go away now as we have
> more important things to do just shows how much
> importance they give to this redistricting.
> Seemed like Stu dragged them though this and they
> were glad it was over.
>
> Stu gibson did not win any PR points with his
> performance either.
>
> They further shut out AP from SL for 5 years.
>
> I think the biggest loser in this whole process is
> the South Lakes High School itself. I know many
> people in Reston are nice but through the hand
> work of a chosen few they have managed to
> alinieate a lot of us.
>
> It is not just a lot of us who will pupil place
> out, but many from Reston will also look to pupil
> place their kids out now.

Great post worth reposting, so I did.

Yes, it is South Lakes that will ultimately suffer the most because of how poorly this was done and because of the insults that Stu, Liz, and the board hurled at those who wanted to remain in their current schools. No one wants to go to a school where they are thought to be racists and bigots. No one wants to send their child to a school where there is such prejudiced against them before they ever set foot in the door.

It really is sad for South Lakes kids as they will pay the ultimate price of the mistakes made by the so called adults on the school board and in their neighborhood.

>>>Madison and South Lakes both have ED centers. They divvy up the kids by base elementary school. If they try the psychologist route FCPS could be a beast and try to dump the kid into Cedar Lane.<<<

I don't think that is what is being discussed. A child can pupil place in another school for social or psychological reasons such as he has no friends at the current school, doesn't fit in, or he's being bullied, or the girls are excluding her from a clique, things like that. A shrink might see her and her family and decide she would be better off in a different school where he/she could 'start over'. It has nothing to do with a child who is ED. I don't think they are seeking special ed through the ED program for their child. That's a whole 'nother thing.

If anyone is having trouble pupil placing, please contact CAPS. They want to document any issues. info@fairfaxcaps.org

Dont give up. This is not over - this is just the start. Contribute to the legal fund of fairfaxcaps.org We should go all the way to the Supreme Court if needed. Contribute, host a fund raiser - eg a garage sale with proceeds going to the legal fund or think of something else. We have a long way to go - till now we were just pleading , the legal fight starts now.
Think positive. We will win this. Dont just write your concession speech so fast.

>>>and nary a word about commitment to excellence and global competitiveness. My advice to all parents is to find a place that speaks to that - from top to bottom - and there sure wasn't any evidence of that last night.<<<<

Yes, it would be nice, and even expected, to have heard last night a commitment to academic excellence. Also it would have been nice if the board had given some evidence of concern for the people's desires. Instead, the public was told to sit down, shut up, and be happy with what they choose to give us.

legal_action Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont give up. This is not over - this is just the
> start. Contribute to the legal fund of
> fairfaxcaps.org We should go all the way to the
> Supreme Court if needed. Contribute, host a fund
> raiser - eg a garage sale with proceeds going to
> the legal fund or think of something else. We
> have a long way to go - till now we were just
> pleading , the legal fight starts now.
> Think positive. We will win this. Dont just write
> your concession speech so fast.


Lets see, you used the words "legal fund" (twice), "farifaxcaps", "supreme court", "legal fight" all before saying, "think positive". Lol

Viking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just had a long conversation with my teenage
> daughter about complaining about unfair treatment
> -- concerning a non-RD situation. She wants to
> throw up her hands and just put up with it. I've
> never had that attitude. I just put my head down
> and work and keep quiet and get whatever I think
> is best. I won't settle for a second best
> situation.
>
> I don't have money and power, but I'm very
> resourceful. And I have never expected anyone to
> hand me anything.

Of course a kid would want to give up. Kids have no power. And apparently parents in FC don't either, according to our school board. They are wrong. This isn't a communist country, we don't have to accept that the government can take our money and do whatever they want with it while we have no say. I know that is what Liz Bradsher said last night, that we have no say, we have no choices, but she is wrong. Very Wrong. This is America, we will always have choices, whether the school board likes it or not.

Last night our school board brought us one step closer to vouchers for every student. Free the children! School choice for ALL! End the monopoly of government schools that tell us we have no choices and they will decide what is best for our children.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maria Allen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Congratulations on your big win last night.
>
> Hope its everything you wanted and more.
>
> What's your take on Phil's motion regarding AP/IB?

Why did Stu have Phil do that? What purpose did it serve to remind people that South Lakes is IB and shall remain so?

Is there ANYTHING else that the board could have done to insure that no one would show up at South Lakes? I think they pretty much said and did it all last night, but I may have missed something.

In the case of Traitorous Kathy Smith, she is going to run agains cucinelli. Go to his website and offer any assistance possible to help support him so Kathy can not screw any more people. When one serves on a school obard it is often to seek higher elections. Let's stop this lieing sack by working against her in her bid to take over Cucinelli.


LiveToFightAnotherDay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The first battle may be lost, but now the enemies
> are clear - No time to rest We have to work hard
> to boot out these 10 moralizing holier than thou
> attitude members from the SB. The next election is
> far away but dont let time dull this slap on your
> face. They did this after the elections to make
> sure the public forgets with time their actions.
> We will not forget !!!

ugly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i will never send my child to south lakes....all
> the ugliness has turned me sour

Last night the school board could have begun to change those sour feelings, but they did not. Stu and Liz went out of their way to insult parents who wanted to remain in their current schools. Then the IB motion, just to add insult to injury, one more little jab to remind parents that they won't get anything that they want, not the school that they want and not the academic program that they want. What the heck were they thinking? Their arrogance knows no bounds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2008 11:55PM by Neen.

so, I talked with some frends of mine that live off of Bennet. Their bus arrivesat 6:10 AM to pick up the children to take to Oakton. They arrive at Oakton at 7:10. Thanks a lot Dean Tisdadt and Kathy Smith for such a generous recommendation and vote to send the Navy community to Oakton. But of course this must be what is right for the students??? Hypocrites; and Stu, you are the biggest hypocrite.........talking how prxomity is so important yet voting against the Navy community. It is a shame how arrogant and hypicritical all of you are.

They're clueless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------




> > Bottom line on "no entitlement" and "No school
> > choice":
> > Get the Bradsher/Storck unnecessary middle
> school
> > off the CIP. FCPS in Jan 2008 changed
> amendment
> > from 2007 on her Unnecessary middle school
> >
> > Last year FCPS CANCELLED her base school's
> > boundary process.
>
>
> And, I'm kind of confused about her story about
> her daughter's book about WW2 children and how it
> brought some clarity to the process for her.
> While children won't suffer like WW2 if they have
> to go to SL, the current children of SL won't
> suffer like WW2 children if they don't have all
> the jewelry making and culinary arts classes they
> want...and it wouldd't be torture if German 3/4
> students still had to share a class. What a
> totally idiotic comparison.

Liz Bradsher is totally idiotic. I have NO idea why she thinks anyone was comparing South Lakes to the Holocaust. It made NO sense at all.

Someone needs to tell her that South Lakes is not her school, nor are any of her constituents effected by this move, so she had reason to go off on the people who want to remain in their current schools. She was really nasty and insulting, for no apparent reason other than she didn't agree with those who wanted to remain in their current schools. I am certain that Stu really appreciated her remarks supporting his equally insulting remarks against the same groups of people. I have little doubt that she has earned his support for her new middle school. I'm counting at least 6 votes on the board who will support her new school. With that much support, it will be easy to get the rest of them to vote with her and Storck.

Does no one on the board care about the budget problems in the county? I guess not. They can always increase class size more.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ms. Allen,
>
> In response to questions from the board, school
> staff recently noted that no one from the South
> Lakes community had expressed any concern about
> the lack of a full AP program to the staff. While
> that seems a bit disingenuous, it is a situation
> that can easily be altered.
>
> In your capacity as an officer with the PTSA,
> would you be willing to have that group officially
> request on behalf of the school a study of
> parental preferences as regards advanced programs
> at South Lakes?

While Maria may welcome such a discussion, the South Lakes PTSA would not, nor would SL staff, the school board or the FCPS administration. Phil and the rest of the board made that clear last night. Should the PTSA acquiesce, and request such a discussion, FCPS PR staff would come out in full force to 'explain' why IB is SO much better than AP, how lucky they are to be in an IB school, and why South Lakes must remain an IB school.

Anyone get any feedback from CAPS meetign in Reston tonight

Maria Allen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Actually, what I am saying is that I would not
> look to the school board to initiate or encourage
> the sort of AP-IB discussion that needs to happen.
> Nonetheless, a discussion about the merits and
> value of the AP and IB programs should take place.
> In fact, it should have taken place before IB
> replaced AP in any FCPS high school.
>
> Parents should have the assurance that the
> advanced program at the high school was chosen
> only after very careful consideration and thorough
> analysis. Such an important decision should not be
> simply the choice of the principal and department
> chairs. Nor should the decision be left to the
> county instructional staff to decide behind closed
> doors, as is so often happens in Fairfax County.
>
> With or without SB or staff support, we owe it to
> future high school families to initiate the
> discussion and thoroughly examine the best options
> for our high schools. I personally feel an
> obligation to future South Lakes families who feel
> understandably confused and uncertain.
>
> Comparing AP and IB, to some degree, is comparing
> apples and oranges. But that can't be used as an
> excuse to forgo stacking up the costs and benefits
> of both programs against each other in order to
> come up with the solution that works best for our
> kids.

Why would you think that FCPS staff, the ones who brought us IB and clearly prefer it, would permit such a discussion? There's nothing it in for them. The more you agitate for such a discussion the more meetings you will have to endure where they tell you how great IB is and how wrong AP is for South Lakes. You will only encourage them to have more PR meetings, just as Phil's motion (actually Stu's) instructed staff to do.

Buckle up redistricted areas, they are coming to tell you how wrong you are about IB, how great it is, and lucky you are to be going to South Lakes because it has IB. You will have MANY opportunities to attend such meetings in the coming months. FCPS staff LOVES IB and they can't wait to convince you.

Good news! It appears that pupil placed 9th graders will be able to get on the buses with the older kids. That will solve transportation problems for the next three years.

This from http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/html/pupil_placement.html

>>>>Is AP academic transfer a guarantee to an AP School? If the closest school is at capacity can the student attend another AP school or is transfer denied?

A: The program must not exist at the base school to make the request. If the school is closed for capacity and the application is filed within the application timeline an option to reapply to another school may be offered.

Please note: FCPS Regulation 7103.5 (Effective 02-23-04) states, in part, that “students enrolled in elective or designated special programs not located within their base school boundaries may be provided school bus transportation.” Regarding Advanced Placement (AP) and International Baccalaureate (IB) Pupil Placements, the document states that “transportation is not provided, but students may ride existing school buses if they can safely access an existing bus stop and if space is available. An Exception To Ride form must be completed by the parents or guardian and approved annually by transportation services.” <<<<

This is the report card for Brad Centers who is one of the ten ELITIST who voted for RD.


Let's review some of the test results in his schools.

Crestwood Elementary:

NOT IN IMPROVEMENT- DID NOT MAKE AYP

56% Of Latino students passed English compared with 69% within FCPS and 72% within VA. The year before, 74% passed-looks like this school is moving in the wrong direction.

Remember when you supported Jack Dale in defying NCLB and the DOE over testing because these kids were traumatized by the testing? Now I understand why you didn't want to test these kids-the numbers are pretty ugly, aren't they?

55% of Latino 3rd graders failed Reading. This figure is TWENTY PERCENTAGE POINTS ABOVE the VA averages. We spend twice what some school districts spend, yet over half of these kids are failing reading. Have you ever asked anyone why all these kids are failing??

Lynbrook Elementary:

NOT IN IMPROVEMENT-DID NOT MAKE AYP

57% of Latino 3rd grade students failed Reading compared with 35% within VA.

This school actually has a GENDER GAP problem where boys are underperforming girls by 22 percentage points!

Let's see how the 6th graders are faring at this school as they prepare to go off to middle school-and we know how important a good foundation is for these kids.

33% of all students in 6th grade failed reading (ONE IN THREE!) compared to FCPS and VA averages of just 12% and 16%.

62% of all students (that is not a typo-SIXTY TWO PERCENT) failed 6th grade math tests compared with 29% in FCPS.

Yet again, another gender gap issue within this school- 57% of females and 26% of males failed VA Studies.

Alright so instead of attacking the opposite side of the issue, you all need to start writing letters to editors of newspapers such as the Washington Post. Stop bringing up the political stuff, while relevant it will only make things worse. In the letter you could point out the fact that IB is not good for Say Moon's children. There has to be an end where everyone is happy at some point. Is it really that easy to pupil place, if so than that could also be another point in a letter since in reality almost everyone would pupil place back to Oakton or Westfeild. A question for Ms. Castro that needs to be asked in a newspapers is why didn't she buy in Reston or pupil place her own children into South Lakes if she thought it was such a great place.

mr e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alright so instead of attacking the opposite side
> of the issue, you all need to start writing
> letters to editors of newspapers such as the
> Washington Post. Stop bringing up the political
> stuff, while relevant it will only make things
> worse. In the letter you could point out the fact
> that IB is not good for Say Moon's children. There
> has to be an end where everyone is happy at some
> point. Is it really that easy to pupil place, if
> so than that could also be another point in a
> letter since in reality almost everyone would
> pupil place back to Oakton or Westfeild. A
> question for Ms. Castro that needs to be asked in
> a newspapers is why didn't she buy in Reston or
> pupil place her own children into South Lakes if
> she thought it was such a great place.


Right, the question regarding Castro's 500 signatures, if most of her signatures were from Reston and SL supporters, then that would be admitted as fraud. The court needs to know this if all this goes to court. Claiming these 500 signatures from Fox Mill when it is not is very misleading and fraudalent.

On another note, regarding the SB's boundary hearing and how most of them said that we do not have school choices, only the County does. I find it ironic that most of them have kids either being graduates of FCPS or currently in FCPS and I am certain they found places to live and have considered the schools of their "choice" for their kids (the sb). So I totally disagreed with Bradsher's school choice speech that we do not have school choices, we certainly do. This is not a communist country for crisssakes.

Regarding pupil placing, the principal at South Lakes has stated that he wants to meet with the parents of each and every pupil placing applicant. He's going to be a very busy man. This is one area where students forced out of Oakton may have a slight advantage. Westfields and Chantilly were both on the list of schools last year that were "closed" and not accepting pupil placements. Oakton at least has a fair amount of space to accept their own students back.

I wonder what Ms. Castro will do in regards to her 8th grade daughter. Pupil place her with all her friends, or isolate her at South Lakes.

kathy smith despiser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the case of Traitorous Kathy Smith, she is
> going to run agains cucinelli. Go to his website
> and offer any assistance possible to help support
> him so Kathy can not screw any more people. When
> one serves on a school obard it is often to seek
> higher elections. Let's stop this lieing sack by
> working against her in her bid to take over
> Cucinelli.
>
>
> LiveToFightAnotherDay Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The first battle may be lost, but now the
> enemies
> > are clear - No time to rest We have to work
> hard
> > to boot out these 10 moralizing holier than
> thou
> > attitude members from the SB. The next election
> is
> > far away but dont let time dull this slap on
> your
> > face. They did this after the elections to make
> > sure the public forgets with time their actions.
>
> > We will not forget !!!
OH, please! Dems and libs will never vote for Cuccinelli. What
are you smoking?

mr e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A
> question for Ms. Castro that needs to be asked in
> a newspapers is why didn't she buy in Reston or
> pupil place her own children into South Lakes if
> she thought it was such a great place.


I feel sorry for Erika's daughter when she is one of very few FM kids to show up at SL this fall. "But Mommy, all my friends are going to Oakton, wah." Really, that will be so sad.

Sort byDate: newest to oldestDate: oldest to newestRating: highest to lowestRating: lowest to highest Page 1 of 7
Posted Sunday, February 24, 2008
The IB program at South Lakes is amazing. The teachers are dedicated, hard working, and the students are excellent in those classes. The regular level classes could use some improvement with discipline and focus. However, safety has never been a 'paramount of importance' for my children here. I'm assuming that comment below might have been written by an angry

http://www.greatschools.net/school/parentReviews.page?id=569&state=VA

I hope that all of the incoming students are bright enough to get into the IB courses, as this parent comment above reflects what I have heard from other SL parents who have children in South Lakes.

The Regular Level classes need "discipline and focus"

I am afraid that those kids who are going to be in the "regular classes" in South Lakes are in for a slightly different educational opportunity,than that of their siblings in Madison, Oakton and Westfield.

Oh well, I am sure that South Lakes will really be under the microscope now. It seems that in the past, it has only been the vocal, well to do parents of the IB students who have been speaking up about all of the wonderful opportunities that South Lakes offers. Very few have said anything about the "other" students and what those classes are like.

I fully expect that those parents and students from MI, FM and Floris who are not fortunate enough to place out of South Lakes, will be able to share a more unbiased opinion regarding the educational opportunities as well as other aspects of daily life in the school.

I really hope that all of the "rumors" regarding South Lakes are really just that, and that the quality of education, safety of students etc. for the general education students at South Lakes is just the same as Oakton, Madison and Westfield.

I noticed on the news yesterday that the stats on fights, weapons etc was posted on the screen, and it did not show South lakes in such a great light, as compared to Westfield. I believe that there were twice as many serious incedents at South Lakes, with there being less that half as many kids.

I am sure that our SBM's are going to take very good care of your children as they enter their new school, as it would be very embarrasing for there to be an 'Incendent" involving any of the new kids being forced into South Lakes.

Good luck to all of you in the transition.

Mr. Regnier
3/1/08
I noticed on the news yesterday that the stats on fights, weapons etc was posted on the screen, and it did not show South Lakes in such a great light, as compared to Westfield. I believe that there were twice as many serious incidents at South Lakes, with there being less that half as many kids.

Based on the above statement, I am making the following FOIA request;

Please provide me copies of documents that attest to serious incidents that took place at South Lakes HS for the last three years.

Examples; fights, students having weapons, how many times were the FFC policed called to the school, students with drugs, gang violence and student harassment.

Also, how many students over the last three years have been removed from the FCPS system?

Neen, take care that your hatred and rage does not consume you.

It is time to stop whining on this board and actually be of service. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and serve on a committee to raise the scores of disadvantaged children, since you purport to be oh so concerned for them? Your time would be much better spent than agitating against SL and the SL PTSA on this forum.

What a waste of a brain.

ann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kathy smith despiser Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In the case of Traitorous Kathy Smith, she is
> > going to run agains cucinelli. Go to his
> website
> > and offer any assistance possible to help
> support
> > him so Kathy can not screw any more people.
> When
> > one serves on a school obard it is often to
> seek
> > higher elections. Let's stop this lieing sack
> by
> > working against her in her bid to take over
> > Cucinelli.
> >
> >
> > LiveToFightAnotherDay Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The first battle may be lost, but now the
> > enemies
> > > are clear - No time to rest We have to work
> > hard
> > > to boot out these 10 moralizing holier than
> > thou
> > > attitude members from the SB. The next
> election
> > is
> > > far away but dont let time dull this slap on
> > your
> > > face. They did this after the elections to
> make
> > > sure the public forgets with time their
> actions.
> >
> > > We will not forget !!!
> OH, please! Dems and libs will never vote for
> Cuccinelli. What
> are you smoking?


I never vote Republican, but I have never been angrier--and I've never been more ashamed of the Democratic party. I find it stomach-turning to vote for Cuccinelli, but I would absolutely vote for him over her. The Dems hit many of us in a very personal place--our children. And, they were amazingly holier than thou about this. I can just imagine how angry Mr. Connolly is at the moment. For the first time in a long time the Dems are getting a foothold in this state--and now these 10 idiots are blowing it (in a place where they need that Dem vote). Three years isn't that long--and it's not just Gibson's constituents who will vote him out. A good campaign against the Sanctimonious 10 will be: If THEY did it to US, they can do it to YOU. No one is safe.

Unfortunately, Gibson will still get the vote of most of his constituents. Langley is happy as a clam that they were left out of this fiasco. South Lakes got what they wanted too. Certainly, Fox Mill won't vote for him, but that won't be enough to get him booted out.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, Gibson will still get the vote of
> most of his constituents. Langley is happy as a
> clam that they were left out of this fiasco.
> South Lakes got what they wanted too. Certainly,
> Fox Mill won't vote for him, but that won't be
> enough to get him booted out.


They key is to get a grass roots movement in Floris and FoxMill and McNair against him. If we get a very high level of voter turnout in those districts, Gibson can be booted out.

Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen, take care that your hatred and rage does not
> consume you.
>
> It is time to stop whining on this board and
> actually be of service. Why don't you put your
> money where your mouth is and serve on a committee
> to raise the scores of disadvantaged children,
> since you purport to be oh so concerned for them?
> Your time would be much better spent than
> agitating against SL and the SL PTSA on this
> forum.
>
> What a waste of a brain.


Ladies and gentlemen: for those still continuing to spew very aggresive commentary, and trying to work everyone into a frenzy on both sides of the equation, I concur with this poster's comments - please STOP.

Other than maybe making you all feel better, it is not really accomplishing anything tangible and positive for ANYONE - those opposed or those for the RD.

So, please, do everyone a favor - yourselves and all others, engage in a constructive and civil dialogue.

Peace

Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen, take care that your hatred and rage does
> not
> > consume you.
> >
> > It is time to stop whining on this board and
> > actually be of service. Why don't you put your
> > money where your mouth is and serve on a
> committee
> > to raise the scores of disadvantaged children,
> > since you purport to be oh so concerned for
> them?
> > Your time would be much better spent than
> > agitating against SL and the SL PTSA on this
> > forum.
> >
> > What a waste of a brain.
>
>
> Ladies and gentlemen: for those still continuing
> to spew very aggresive commentary, and trying to
> work everyone into a frenzy on both sides of the
> equation, I concur with this poster's comments -
> please STOP.
>
> Other than maybe making you all feel better, it is
> not really accomplishing anything tangible and
> positive for ANYONE - those opposed or those for
> the RD.
>
> So, please, do everyone a favor - yourselves and
> all others, engage in a constructive and civil
> dialogue.
>
> Peace


Of course you want to stop - you got what you wanted. The rest of the folks have to figure out how to provide an education for their children , how to pupil place, how to provide transportation or whether to move.

PeaceReally? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fish or Cut Bait Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Neen, take care that your hatred and rage
> does
> > not
> > > consume you.
> > >
> > > It is time to stop whining on this board and
> > > actually be of service. Why don't you put
> your
> > > money where your mouth is and serve on a
> > committee
> > > to raise the scores of disadvantaged
> children,
> > > since you purport to be oh so concerned for
> > them?
> > > Your time would be much better spent than
> > > agitating against SL and the SL PTSA on this
> > > forum.
> > >
> > > What a waste of a brain.
> >
> >
> > Ladies and gentlemen: for those still
> continuing
> > to spew very aggresive commentary, and trying
> to
> > work everyone into a frenzy on both sides of
> the
> > equation, I concur with this poster's comments
> -
> > please STOP.
> >
> > Other than maybe making you all feel better, it
> is
> > not really accomplishing anything tangible and
> > positive for ANYONE - those opposed or those
> for
> > the RD.
> >
> > So, please, do everyone a favor - yourselves
> and
> > all others, engage in a constructive and civil
> > dialogue.
> >
> > Peace
>
>
> Of course you want to stop - you got what you
> wanted. The rest of the folks have to figure out
> how to provide an education for their children ,
> how to pupil place, how to provide transportation
> or whether to move.


I understand that you are upset, and that you have issues that you need/want to resolve, and I appreciate and respect that.

I am not suggesting that you stop to trying to fix or address those issues, all I am suggesting, sincerely, is to do so in a civil manner and not continue the war of words, and hatred.

There are several here on this board, that are making what I believe to be an honest effort to have a civil and constructive dialogue, abot how to pupil place, transport, AP vs. IB, etc - and I am encouraging that discussion to go on - regardless on what your beliefs are.

All I am saying that all the hatred and name calling and so on, will not solve anything for ANYONE.

That's all.

I am trying to be sincere, and hope that other will buy in.

Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Ladies and gentlemen: for those still continuing
> to spew very aggresive commentary, and trying to
> work everyone into a frenzy on both sides of the
> equation, I concur with this poster's comments -
> please STOP.
>
> Other than maybe making you all feel better, it is
> not really accomplishing anything tangible and
> positive for ANYONE - those opposed or those for
> the RD.
>
> So, please, do everyone a favor - yourselves and
> all others, engage in a constructive and civil
> dialogue.
>
> Peace


The war has just started for me. It will end for me after my kids graduated from Oakton/Westfield/Herndon.

I think Gibson is very safe with support from Reston and Vienna. This November we are going to get a Dem president, most likely the further to the left of the two. He is going to get rid of NCLB, high school exit exam, and push other left wing education agenda.

That's just the current state of Fairfax county, and the whole country.



vote_gibson_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SBS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Unfortunately, Gibson will still get the vote
> of
> > most of his constituents. Langley is happy as
> a
> > clam that they were left out of this fiasco.
> > South Lakes got what they wanted too.
> Certainly,
> > Fox Mill won't vote for him, but that won't be
> > enough to get him booted out.
>
>
> They key is to get a grass roots movement in
> Floris and FoxMill and McNair against him. If we
> get a very high level of voter turnout in those
> districts, Gibson can be booted out.

I have hope for the Republicans. They are going through a rough patch, but the party will come back. This forced social engineering experiment of RD shows what the state of affairs will be with the democrats in charge. Every one heard the democrats say on 28th night that the public has no say in what the government does to them. Voting them out is the only way to reclaim our rights.

ain't gonna happen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Gibson is very safe with support from
> Reston and Vienna. This November we are going to
> get a Dem president, most likely the further to
> the left of the two. He is going to get rid of
> NCLB, high school exit exam, and push other left
> wing education agenda.
>
> That's just the current state of Fairfax county,
> and the whole country.
>
>
>
> vote_gibson_out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SBS Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Unfortunately, Gibson will still get the vote
> > of
> > > most of his constituents. Langley is happy
> as
> > a
> > > clam that they were left out of this fiasco.
> > > South Lakes got what they wanted too.
> > Certainly,
> > > Fox Mill won't vote for him, but that won't
> be
> > > enough to get him booted out.
> >
> >
> > They key is to get a grass roots movement in
> > Floris and FoxMill and McNair against him. If
> we
> > get a very high level of voter turnout in those
> > districts, Gibson can be booted out.

Exactly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Ladies and gentlemen: for those still
> continuing
> > to spew very aggresive commentary, and trying
> to
> > work everyone into a frenzy on both sides of
> the
> > equation, I concur with this poster's comments
> -
> > please STOP.
> >
> > Other than maybe making you all feel better, it
> is
> > not really accomplishing anything tangible and
> > positive for ANYONE - those opposed or those
> for
> > the RD.
> >
> > So, please, do everyone a favor - yourselves
> and
> > all others, engage in a constructive and civil
> > dialogue.
> >
> > Peace
>
>
> The war has just started for me. It will end for
> me after my kids graduated from
> Oakton/Westfield/Herndon.

Well, to go to war, if that is your choice, is your option, and I sincerely feel very sorry for you that you have so much hatred, and can't see past it to try to find a civil way to solve your issues.

From your statement, my take away is that for you to resolve the problem is a winner take-all, and for you to get whatever you (think you) need/want, it means that you will not stop until you either get what you want and the other side must lose.

Not really much I can do about that.

I am just hoping that the voices of reasonableness, some of the posters here including Quantum and Maria Allen, will prevail, and try to find a more middle road working with the other side that will help solve/alleviate some of your issues and make things better for everyone. on BOTH sides.

I hope that you can resolve your problems, but I hope that the cost you will exact from others both on your side and on the other will not be disastrous.

You sound just like those SB members on the vote night. The SL community has nothing to lose as they are not being affected. They also are offering nothing - the SB voted to preserve the IB there for next 5 years!!!. None of the disadvantaged students' parents spoke out anything nor do they take IB diploma. The few elite IB parents at SL want even more resources for their tiny % of IB Diploma students and want to take away opportunities from a larger section of students to benefit them even more. Greed has no end. There is no middle road here. SLHS is being run only for the benefit of a handful of IB diploma students and the rest lose everything. This whole process was a facade to give those tiny few even more resources at the expense of the general population students.

Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Peace Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > >
> > > Ladies and gentlemen: for those still
> > continuing
> > > to spew very aggresive commentary, and trying
> > to
> > > work everyone into a frenzy on both sides of
> > the
> > > equation, I concur with this poster's
> comments
> > -
> > > please STOP.
> > >
> > > Other than maybe making you all feel better,
> it
> > is
> > > not really accomplishing anything tangible
> and
> > > positive for ANYONE - those opposed or those
> > for
> > > the RD.
> > >
> > > So, please, do everyone a favor - yourselves
> > and
> > > all others, engage in a constructive and
> civil
> > > dialogue.
> > >
> > > Peace
> >
> >
> > The war has just started for me. It will end
> for
> > me after my kids graduated from
> > Oakton/Westfield/Herndon.
>
> Well, to go to war, if that is your choice, is
> your option, and I sincerely feel very sorry for
> you that you have so much hatred, and can't see
> past it to try to find a civil way to solve your
> issues.
>
> From your statement, my take away is that for you
> to resolve the problem is a winner take-all, and
> for you to get whatever you (think you) need/want,
> it means that you will not stop until you either
> get what you want and the other side must lose.
>
> Not really much I can do about that.
>
> I am just hoping that the voices of
> reasonableness, some of the posters here including
> Quantum and Maria Allen, will prevail, and try to
> find a more middle road working with the other
> side that will help solve/alleviate some of your
> issues and make things better for everyone. on
> BOTH sides.
>
> I hope that you can resolve your problems, but I
> hope that the cost you will exact from others both
> on your side and on the other will not be
> disastrous.

PeaceReally? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You sound just like those SB members on the vote
> night. The SL community has nothing to lose as
> they are not being affected. They also are
> offering nothing - the SB voted to preserve the IB
> there for next 5 years!!!. None of the
> disadvantaged students' parents spoke out anything
> nor do they take IB diploma. The few elite IB
> parents at SL want even more resources for their
> tiny % of IB Diploma students and want to take
> away opportunities from a larger section of
> students to benefit them even more. Greed has no
> end. There is no middle road here. SLHS is being
> run only for the benefit of a handful of IB
> diploma students and the rest lose everything.
> This whole process was a facade to give those tiny
> few even more resources at the expense of the
> general population students.
>
> Peace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Exactly Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Peace Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ladies and gentlemen: for those still
> > > continuing
> > > > to spew very aggresive commentary, and
> trying
> > > to
> > > > work everyone into a frenzy on both sides
> of
> > > the
> > > > equation, I concur with this poster's
> > comments
> > > -
> > > > please STOP.
> > > >
> > > > Other than maybe making you all feel
> better,
> > it
> > > is
> > > > not really accomplishing anything tangible
> > and
> > > > positive for ANYONE - those opposed or
> those
> > > for
> > > > the RD.
> > > >
> > > > So, please, do everyone a favor -
> yourselves
> > > and
> > > > all others, engage in a constructive and
> > civil
> > > > dialogue.
> > > >
> > > > Peace
> > >
> > >
> > > The war has just started for me. It will end
> > for
> > > me after my kids graduated from
> > > Oakton/Westfield/Herndon.
> >
> > Well, to go to war, if that is your choice, is
> > your option, and I sincerely feel very sorry
> for
> > you that you have so much hatred, and can't see
> > past it to try to find a civil way to solve
> your
> > issues.
> >
> > From your statement, my take away is that for
> you
> > to resolve the problem is a winner take-all,
> and
> > for you to get whatever you (think you)
> need/want,
> > it means that you will not stop until you
> either
> > get what you want and the other side must lose.
> >
> > Not really much I can do about that.
> >
> > I am just hoping that the voices of
> > reasonableness, some of the posters here
> including
> > Quantum and Maria Allen, will prevail, and try
> to
> > find a more middle road working with the other
> > side that will help solve/alleviate some of
> your
> > issues and make things better for everyone. on
> > BOTH sides.
> >
> > I hope that you can resolve your problems, but
> I
> > hope that the cost you will exact from others
> both
> > on your side and on the other will not be
> > disastrous.


I am sorry for you I hope you find what you are looking for. Good luck. I hope some day whenever that might be, you find some peace.

Actually, this isn't a win-all for the South Lakes community. There has been quite a bit of animosity built up by those who don't want to go to that school, and spread to people who otherwise would have been fine with it. South Lakes is facing the prospect of trying to build bridges with people who are bringing chips on their shoulders, through no fault of the kids in South Lakes who are the ones most affected by this change in the current South Lakes community.

Private emails sent by anti-RD agitators to individuals who have been supporting the boundary change are so full of vitriol and personal attacks and threats that most of you on this board would be appalled. None of you certainly would want to get them yourselves. And some of them, unfortunately, have come from people known to post here.

I cannot imagine that there is a single case where a pro-boundary change supporter has sent anything similar to people against this. Those of you who would never consider such a thing should know that there are people doing this. Those who have been supporting the RD know that it is a few individuals and not groups behind this and are not brushing all those who opposed this change with one stroke. But you can imagine how difficult that is when attacks are so personal and hateful. (And no, I will not post them here. That adds fuel to the fire that some here would love to stoke ad infinitum, including some who have absolutely no interest in what happens at South Lakes because they are not affected by this change, but love to agitate.)

I have many older African American friends who went through this kind of thing. Think of the parallels, and then consider what you have to say.

Personally, I am hopeful that these angry people either pupil-place out of South Lakes or go to private schools so the rest of us can get on with the transition and find common ground. After a year or two, everything will settle down, as it always does in boundary changes everywhere.

Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sorry for you I hope you find what you are looking for. Good luck. I hope
> some day whenever that might be, you find some peace.

Condescension is just a more ethereal form of violence.

No justice. No peace.

These people have been done an injustice, as Ms. Hone explained.

Until their grievances are acknowledged, forgiveness sought and recompense offered, no peace can prevail.

Because of the 4 year phase in, this turmoil will not "just fade away."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2008 02:01PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am sorry for you I hope you find what you are
> looking for. Good luck. I hope
> > some day whenever that might be, you find some
> peace.
>
> Condescension is just a more ethereal form of
> violence.
>
> No justice. No peace.
>
> These people have been done an injustice, as Ms.
> Hone explained.
>
> Until their grievances are acknowledged,
> forgiveness sought and recompense offered, no
> peace can prevail.
>
> Because of the 4 year phase in, this turmoil will
> not "just fade away."


I am not trying to be condescending.

I am honestly trying to extend an olive branch.

I acknowledge the anti-RD's crowd grievance that they will have to deal with a change, that some or many (but not all) consider negative and that will take a toll.

Whether there is injustice here or not is a matter of opinion and debate, it is not an absolute truth.

If the other side feels so strongly that there was illegality here, then they have every right to challenge the process, that is their prerogative. If the process is ultimately judged to be fair, and those folks do not agree with the conclusions drawn by the SB, then there is a recourse there in terms of voting for an alternative, that too is their prerogative.

So, all I am suggesting, is that checks and balances exist that can address these perceived inequities in a civil manner.

In the mean time, the continued hatred will not resolve anything tangibly, other than make a handful of people feel better.

"I am sorry for you I hope you find what you are looking for. Good luck. I hope some day whenever that might be, you find some peace."

Why is anyone making some kind of zen thing out of this? Why assume that people who think that RD was not the correct solution to the problem (whatever that problem is, no one seems to have a very clear explanation) are lacking in reasonableness or that they need "peace"? If there is an injustice, people should object and oppose it. This RD was unjust and unnecessary. I don't want to invoke WW II or any other hyperbole, but people are SUPPOSED to push back. Just because they won't lie back and take it doesn't mean they have inner demons.

Anyway, as far as what we are looking for, it's fairly clear: good schools for our kids. Are we supposed to personally fix other schools? Really, think about that. There are crappy institutions all over the place. Who feels the obligation to personaly fix them all, especially if fixing them meant sending your kids? I don't go out of my way to keep them crappy and if I can facilitate their improvement, fine, but I don't consider it my duty to join them BECAUSE they have problems. Think about that. I'm not saying SL is crappy (not for me to say one way or the other), but some people seem to think that it's the duty of people to not only fix other people's messes but to do so by actually leaving someplace that works and joining the mess. Rather than question why we aren't buying that, maybe the better question would be why in the world would anyone expect that we would have bought it?

Now, if your primary reaction to that is to say that SL is a wonderful place and it's serving all its students well, then again, why change it. And if you say it's a wonderful place but needs more students so it can have stronger sports teams and more sections of classes, then sorry, that's not good enough. People have already shown that in fact SL offers plenty of courses. To the extent that it can't offer more, getting rid of IB would take care of most of that issue.

Believe me, I'd love to move on, but as long as two of my kids might be yanked around, I've got to stay involved.

all those trying to battle RD in court don't waste the time or the money. The government has the right to choose what school an what districts it wants. Don't feel intitled just because you bought a house in a particular neighbor hood. You have a choice....... Public or Private. SL students b4 this RD didn't have a choice and they got short end of the stick. It is time that faifax be fair to them.

Any lawsuits will be ruled out as frivolous

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I am sorry for you I hope you find what you are
> looking for. Good luck. I hope some day whenever
> that might be, you find some peace."
>
> Why is anyone making some kind of zen thing out of
> this? Why assume that people who think that RD was
> not the correct solution to the problem (whatever
> that problem is, no one seems to have a very clear
> explanation) are lacking in reasonableness or that
> they need "peace"? If there is an injustice,
> people should object and oppose it. This RD was
> unjust and unnecessary. I don't want to invoke WW
> II or any other hyperbole, but people are SUPPOSED
> to push back. Just because they won't lie back and
> take it doesn't mean they have inner demons.
>
> Anyway, as far as what we are looking for, it's
> fairly clear: good schools for our kids. Are we
> supposed to personally fix other schools? Really,
> think about that. There are crappy institutions
> all over the place. Who feels the obligation to
> personaly fix them all, especially if fixing them
> meant sending your kids? I don't go out of my way
> to keep them crappy and if I can facilitate their
> improvement, fine, but I don't consider it my duty
> to join them BECAUSE they have problems. Think
> about that. I'm not saying SL is crappy (not for
> me to say one way or the other), but some people
> seem to think that it's the duty of people to not
> only fix other people's messes but to do so by
> actually leaving someplace that works and joining
> the mess. Rather than question why we aren't
> buying that, maybe the better question would be
> why in the world would anyone expect that we would
> have bought it?
>
> Now, if your primary reaction to that is to say
> that SL is a wonderful place and it's serving all
> its students well, then again, why change it. And
> if you say it's a wonderful place but needs more
> students so it can have stronger sports teams and
> more sections of classes, then sorry, that's not
> good enough. People have already shown that in
> fact SL offers plenty of courses. To the extent
> that it can't offer more, getting rid of IB would
> take care of most of that issue.
>
> Believe me, I'd love to move on, but as long as
> two of my kids might be yanked around, I've got to
> stay involved.

I appreciate and respect your position.

I think the mutual ground is that both sides want the best schools for our kids.

While we disagree with what is the best way to get there, your comments are a good example of what I was trying to convey. I appreciate it that you are offering the commentary in civil manner and reasonable and logical manner. Thank you. Your thoughtful reply is having much more impact to me than some (probably and hopefully minority) of the hatred filled commentary.

I understand and respect that you want to stay involved.

I am just trying to keep as best as I can the vitriol out of the equation.

Thank you again.

Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Peace Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am sorry for you I hope you find what you
> are
> > looking for. Good luck. I hope
> > > some day whenever that might be, you find
> some
> > peace.
> >
> > Condescension is just a more ethereal form of
> > violence.
> >
> > No justice. No peace.
> >
> > These people have been done an injustice, as
> Ms.
> > Hone explained.
> >
> > Until their grievances are acknowledged,
> > forgiveness sought and recompense offered, no
> > peace can prevail.
> >
> > Because of the 4 year phase in, this turmoil
> will
> > not "just fade away."
>
>
> I am not trying to be condescending.
>
> I am honestly trying to extend an olive branch.
>

You are rubbing salt into an open wound.

> I acknowledge the anti-RD's crowd grievance that
> they will have to deal with a change, that some or
> many (but not all) consider negative and that will
> take a toll.
>

You still don't get it. Let's move you against your will and see if you can acknowledge a little more than that thin benevolence.

> Whether there is injustice here or not is a matter
> of opinion and debate, it is not an absolute
> truth.
>
> If the other side feels so strongly that there was
> illegality here, then they have every right to
> challenge the process, that is their prerogative.
> If the process is ultimately judged to be fair,
> and those folks do not agree with the conclusions
> drawn by the SB, then there is a recourse there in
> terms of voting for an alternative, that too is
> their prerogative.
>
> So, all I am suggesting, is that checks and
> balances exist that can address these perceived
> inequities in a civil manner.
>

The lack of due process should be the basis of a legal challenge. There is substantial evidence that FCPS went through the motions of a study process with a predetermined outcome in mind, and thus subverted the intention of the process, which above all else is to ensure fairness.

> In the mean time, the continued hatred will not
> resolve anything tangibly, other than make a
> handful of people feel better.

What you are seeing is not so much hatred as it is refusal to be bullied and resolve to find a remedy despite institutional and political barriers. A message will be sent, and some will find it to be mean. The level of civility will be directly proportional to how reasonable the process is. While things seem to be reasonable to you, since you got what you wanted, the continued howls of outrage are a good indicator that this was not reasonable to many others. Once you can acknowledge that, that is a true step in the right direction.

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Peace Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I am sorry for you I hope you find what you
> > are
> > > looking for. Good luck. I hope
> > > > some day whenever that might be, you find
> > some
> > > peace.
> > >
> > > Condescension is just a more ethereal form of
> > > violence.
> > >
> > > No justice. No peace.
> > >
> > > These people have been done an injustice, as
> > Ms.
> > > Hone explained.
> > >
> > > Until their grievances are acknowledged,
> > > forgiveness sought and recompense offered, no
> > > peace can prevail.
> > >
> > > Because of the 4 year phase in, this turmoil
> > will
> > > not "just fade away."
> >
> >
> > I am not trying to be condescending.
> >
> > I am honestly trying to extend an olive branch.
> >
>
> You are rubbing salt into an open wound.
>
> > I acknowledge the anti-RD's crowd grievance
> that
> > they will have to deal with a change, that some
> or
> > many (but not all) consider negative and that
> will
> > take a toll.
> >
>
> You still don't get it. Let's move you against
> your will and see if you can acknowledge a little
> more than that thin benevolence.
>
> > Whether there is injustice here or not is a
> matter
> > of opinion and debate, it is not an absolute
> > truth.
> >
> > If the other side feels so strongly that there
> was
> > illegality here, then they have every right to
> > challenge the process, that is their
> prerogative.
> > If the process is ultimately judged to be fair,
> > and those folks do not agree with the
> conclusions
> > drawn by the SB, then there is a recourse there
> in
> > terms of voting for an alternative, that too is
> > their prerogative.
> >
> > So, all I am suggesting, is that checks and
> > balances exist that can address these perceived
> > inequities in a civil manner.
> >
>
> The lack of due process should be the basis of a
> legal challenge. There is substantial evidence
> that FCPS went through the motions of a study
> process with a predetermined outcome in mind, and
> thus subverted the intention of the process, which
> above all else is to ensure fairness.
>
> > In the mean time, the continued hatred will not
> > resolve anything tangibly, other than make a
> > handful of people feel better.
>
> What you are seeing is not so much hatred as it is
> refusal to be bullied and resolve to find a remedy
> despite institutional and political barriers. A
> message will be sent, and some will find it to be
> mean. The level of civility will be directly
> proportional to how reasonable the process is.
> While things seem to be reasonable to you, since
> you got what you wanted, the continued howls of
> outrage are a good indicator that this was not
> reasonable to many others. Once you can
> acknowledge that, that is a true step in the right
> direction.


I am trying to be gracious, but it seems that you some of you are not interested. There is nothing I can do about that.

The outcome, yes, it appears reasonable to me, and like I said before this is a matter of opinion.

You do not feel the process was fair, perhaps it was not. I for one do not know.

What I do know is that the vast majority on the SB apparently feel the process was fair and reasonable, and it is hard for me to reconcile that everybody is against the communities affected jst to be against them.

we have a choice.... private school Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> all those trying to battle RD in court don't waste
> the time or the money. The government has the
> right to choose what school an what districts it
> wants. Don't feel intitled just because you bought
> a house in a particular neighbor hood. You have a
> choice....... Public or Private. SL students b4
> this RD didn't have a choice and they got short
> end of the stick. It is time that faifax be fair
> to them.
>
> Any lawsuits will be ruled out as frivolous

What are you talking about that SL didn't have a choice before the RD and now this time fcps is to be fair to SL? Are you implying it was SL's choice to have more kids at the disruption of other displaced families? This is exactly what many of those opposed were talking about..choices and fairness...this RD has done an incredible injustice to these displaced families and now they are dealing with the aftermath however their choice of anger or frustration so forth simply because they were looking out for their kids.

we have a choice.... private school Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> all those trying to battle RD in court don't waste
> the time or the money. The government has the
> right to choose what school an what districts it
> wants. Don't feel intitled just because you bought
> a house in a particular neighbor hood. You have a
> choice....... Public or Private. SL students b4
> this RD didn't have a choice and they got short
> end of the stick.

I thought everyone is saying how wonderful SL is. How can it be so wonderful and at the same time be getting the short end of the stick? BTW, by financial and staffing measures, SL is getting more than most, on a per student basis.

mr e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alright so instead of attacking the opposite side
> of the issue, you all need to start writing
> letters to editors of newspapers such as the
> Washington Post. Stop bringing up the political
> stuff, while relevant it will only make things
> worse. In the letter you could point out the fact
> that IB is not good for Say Moon's children. There
> has to be an end where everyone is happy at some
> point. Is it really that easy to pupil place, if
> so than that could also be another point in a
> letter since in reality almost everyone would
> pupil place back to Oakton or Westfeild. A
> question for Ms. Castro that needs to be asked in
> a newspapers is why didn't she buy in Reston or
> pupil place her own children into South Lakes if
> she thought it was such a great place.

I believe that Ms.Castro did pupil place her children into South Lakes, as did Caroline Hemenway. Of course they have to justify putting their child into South Lakes since nearly all of their neighbors think they are a few bricks shy of a load.

How about choice, for every child? Every school age child in the county gets a voucher for what the FCPS/taxpayers pays per pupil, something around $13,500, or even less, and the student can then use it to attend any school that they choose? They can use it to go to any public school (including TJ if they are accepted there), any private school, catholic school, any school of the family's choosing. Make the vouchers less than $13,000 and the taxpayers save money. Doesn't that seem simple? If more children choose AP schools then there will be more AP schools. If people want IB then schools will become IB schools. The people will decide what kind of education that their children receive, rather than the government. It's working in other places, why not here? Give parents a choice, end America's last government monopoly. CHOICE, such a simple concept.

Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am trying to be gracious.

Let's take you at your word. Peace does require those 3 steps written earlier. acknowledgment, a request for forgiveness, and an offer of recompense.

> You do not feel the process was fair, perhaps it was not. I for one do not
> know.

There have been multiple grievances advanced.

You aren't ready to acknowledge that the outcome was unfair. So we cannot reconcile (achieve peace) on that issue. OK, put it aside for now . Let's try to come back to it later.

But lets just stay with the process grievance. If the objectors' grievance about the lack of transparency to the process, about the schools left out of the boundary study, about the apparent preferential access of some folks to the SB, and not others, cannot be acknowledge, how to we get to peace?

> What I do know is that the vast majority on the SB apparently feel the process
> was fair and reasonable,

"Bandwagoning" and "blaming a higher power" are obstacles to peace.

> and it is hard for me to reconcile that everybody is against the communities
> affected just to be against them.

Now we're just discrediting the grievance again. It doesn't help.

Peace is really hard work.

Gandhi and MLK are great teachers on how to achieve peace. If that's what you're really after, it takes a lot of study, effort, time and discipline.

I apologize if that reads as pedantic or condescending. I'm not really as school in the practice of peacemaking as I'd like to be but I know enough how not to make it work.

we have a choice.... private school Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> all those trying to battle RD in court don't waste
> the time or the money. The government has the
> right to choose what school an what districts it
> wants. Don't feel intitled just because you bought
> a house in a particular neighbor hood. You have a
> choice....... Public or Private. SL students b4
> this RD didn't have a choice and they got short
> end of the stick. It is time that faifax be fair
> to them.
>
> Any lawsuits will be ruled out as frivolous

I fear that you are correct, government schools can do whatever they want. That's how schools got stuck with IB and Everyday Math and bad reading programs. That's why the racial gaps in FCPS continue to grow while the rest of the state is closing them. That's why the choices should be in the hands of the parents and taxpayer and not the government.