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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 06, 2008 10:56PM

>>>CAPS needs to change their slogan. I have to
> agree that the schools are the county schools not
> our schools. Let's be adults people.<<<<

The schools are not our's? Who do YOU think they belong to, if not the people who pay for them? Of course they are our schools.

Would someone please explain that to Mrs.Forest Gump, Liz Bradsher? She's cluelessly thinking that the schools now belong to her since she's now on the school board. She's either very stupid or very arrogant, most likely both. Neither is attractive. She and the South Lakes PTSA have formed a mutual admiration society. How very fitting, Dumb and Dumber forming an alliance in ignorance and arrogance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2008 10:57PM by Neen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 06, 2008 11:00PM

Agree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree please ANTI RDs do us and yourselves a
> FAVOR and STOP POSTING SO MUCH INFORMATION on this
> BLOG. Some of the SBMs drew quotes from right
> here. At this point all communication regarding
> law suits needs to be stopped other than among
> yourselves and fundraising info. If/when a law
> suit gets to discovery phase who posted what here
> may become public information. You must assume
> nothing is private if you wouldnt post it under
> your own name DONT POST IT.

Yeah, don't you love it? Our elected School Board using quotes from here! They can't even think for themselves but have to borrow lines from here! It's too funny, in a sick sorta way.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 06, 2008 11:04PM

At the Planning Commission CIP workshop tonight, there was extensive expressions of sympathy by PC members Alcorn and De La FE (both Restonians) to the FCPS staff member for the "difficulty" they had gone through in the recent RD.

It's always fun watching one part of our government fawning over another.

The FCPS staff member showed, again, that there were over 2,000 extra seats in middle schools and over 4,000 extra seats in high schools.

The FCPS staff member then described how the SB took $2m away from BRAC planning to plan the South County middle school.

At large PC member Sargeant was clearly anxious for SCMS to move forward.

The inconsistency of those two facts went unremarked upon.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 07, 2008 06:36AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the Planning Commission CIP workshop tonight,
> there was extensive expressions of sympathy by PC
> members Alcorn and De La FE (both Restonians) to
> the FCPS staff member for the "difficulty" they
> had gone through in the recent RD.
>
> It's always fun watching one part of our
> government fawning over another.
>
> The FCPS staff member showed, again, that there
> were over 2,000 extra seats in middle schools and
> over 4,000 extra seats in high schools.
>
> The FCPS staff member then described how the SB
> took $2m away from BRAC planning to plan the South
> County middle school.
>
> At large PC member Sargeant was clearly anxious
> for SCMS to move forward.
>
> The inconsistency of those two facts went
> unremarked upon.


And no sympathy for the RDed families after going through a poorly unfair process? What a joke with the government showing sympathy to the fcps staff regarding this RD. With so many empty seats in middle schools and high schools across the county, some showed anxiety for the SCMS to go forward? Again, this is a joke with extremely poor planning and alot of Dunce hats among fcps staff and the sb.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:08AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>CAPS needs to change their slogan. I have to
> > agree that the schools are the county schools
> not
> > our schools. Let's be adults people.<<<<
>
> The schools are not our's? Who do YOU think they
> belong to, if not the people who pay for them? Of
> course they are our schools.

It could be she meant the schools belong to the other 900k residents of Fairfax County and not just the 30-40k who are affected by this process, and that the School Board has to take into account the needs of the ENTIRE county and not just a few hundred parents.

Is South Lakes a bad school by Fairfax standards? Sure.
Is South Lakes better than most of the Prince William schools? Probably.
Is South Lakes in the top 20% of American schools? Probably.

The anti-RD folks have proposed nothing save for vague ideas about a magnet school at SL and less vague threats of a lawsuit. A few anti-RD parents have said things that an unsympathetic ear might say are racist (the 'Bratz' parent and the parents who seem to equal South Lakes with Eastern HS in DC come to mind) but probably just came out worse than they intended. I also think they object mainly to their kids going to school with poor trash, as opposed to brown kids (I suspect most of these parents would not want to send their kids out to the Frederick/Warren/Shenandoah County schools, either, despite those systems being as lily-white as the Langley and Madison pyramids.)

In the meantime, many of them whine about South County Middle School and propose moving kids in the southern part of the county around in much the same way kids are being moved around in the northwestern part of the county.

I just wonder what could be done if half the energy the anti-RD folks spend complaining about South Lakes was spent working/doing stuff with their kids. Or if that is unpalatable, maybe working harder at their jobs so they could move to the Langley, Oakton, Madison (or even George Mason) zones.

As for AP and IB -- take NOVA or Mason courses if colleges are being jerks about accepting IB (and I'll acknowledge that IB seems to be the inferior product if colleges aren't accepting IB classes for credit.)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TGIF ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:20AM

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----


Quit with the absurd accusations of racism - you're like Stu trying to summon race or class conflict - its stupid and gets us nowhere - and its not eve true


>It could be she meant the schools belong to the other 900k residents of Fairfax
> County and not just the 30-40k who are affected by this process, and that th
> School Board has to take into account the needs of the ENTIRE county and not
>just a few hundred parents.

and screwing hundreds of affected families helped families in other schools how exactly?

This is like saying DC shouldn't have the vote because err...

>
> Is South Lakes a bad school by Fairfax standards?
> Sure.


That's all the justification that's needed to fix SLHS rather than pump in warm unwilling bodies to hide the problems

If bodies are needed an IB magnet is a good approach


> I just wonder what could be done if half the
> energy the anti-RD folks spend complaining about
> South Lakes was spent working/doing stuff with
> their kids.

Most of the one's I know already do


Or if that is unpalatable, maybe
> working harder at their jobs so they could move to
> the Langley, Oakton, Madison (or even George
> Mason) zones.
>

They thought they were in Oakton and Madison zones

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WATCHDOG ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:29AM

TO 3/7/08

Jack Dale
School Board


At the Planning Commission CIP workshop last night, there was extensive expressions of sympathy by PC members Alcorn and De La FE (both Restonians) to the FCPS staff member for the "difficulty" they had gone through in the recent RD.

I think if the PC asked the tax payers of Western Fairfax County their opinion they would tell the PC that they were the ones that had the "difficulty" with FCPS and the School Board.

It's always fun watching one part of our government fawning over another.

The FCPS staff member showed, again, that there were over 2,000 extra seats in middle schools and over 4,000 extra seats in high schools.

You need to fill all seats before you move ahead with any new schools.

The FCPS staff member then described how the SB took $2m away from BRAC planning to plan the South County middle school.

You need to redistrict SCSS, Lake Braddock, Hayfield, Lee and West Springfield high schools before you build any new schools in the South County area.

At large PC member Sargeant was clearly anxious for SCMS to move forward.

Why? Where does Sargeant live? This school is not needed.

The inconsistency of those two facts went unremarked upon.

Hard to understand with the budget deficiency facing Fairfax County and the FCPS system for years to come, WHY NOT USE BUDGET RESTRAINTS AND GOOD JUDGMENT WITH EVERY PENNY THAT IS SPENT?


Watchdog

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: in addition ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:31AM

TGIF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> formerhick76 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
>
>
> Quit with the absurd accusations of racism -
> you're like Stu trying to summon race or class
> conflict - its stupid and gets us nowhere - and
> its not eve true
>
>
> >It could be she meant the schools belong to the
> other 900k residents of Fairfax
> > County and not just the 30-40k who are affected
> by this process, and that th
> > School Board has to take into account the needs
> of the ENTIRE county and not
> >just a few hundred parents.
>
> and screwing hundreds of affected families helped
> families in other schools how exactly?
>
> This is like saying DC shouldn't have the vote
> because err...
>
> >
> > Is South Lakes a bad school by Fairfax
> standards?
> > Sure.
>
>
> That's all the justification that's needed to fix
> SLHS rather than pump in warm unwilling bodies to
> hide the problems
>
> If bodies are needed an IB magnet is a good
> approach
>
>
> > I just wonder what could be done if half the
> > energy the anti-RD folks spend complaining
> about
> > South Lakes was spent working/doing stuff with
> > their kids.
>
> Most of the one's I know already do
>
>
> Or if that is unpalatable, maybe
> > working harder at their jobs so they could move
> to
> > the Langley, Oakton, Madison (or even George
> > Mason) zones.
> >
>
> They thought they were in Oakton and Madison zones

the fact is, this RD does not appear poised to accomplish its objectives, as people are pupil placing out en masse, or moving, or taking other action.

you can argue all you want that the anti-RD folks are to blame for this but the fact still stands that this RD is not going to work. what will you do then?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:34AM

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>CAPS needs to change their slogan. I have to
> > > agree that the schools are the county schools
> > not
> > > our schools. Let's be adults people.<<<<
> >
> > The schools are not our's? Who do YOU think
> they
> > belong to, if not the people who pay for them?
> Of
> > course they are our schools.
>
> It could be she meant the schools belong to the
> other 900k residents of Fairfax County and not
> just the 30-40k who are affected by this process,
> and that the School Board has to take into account
> the needs of the ENTIRE county and not just a few
> hundred parents.
>
> Is South Lakes a bad school by Fairfax standards?
> Sure.
> Is South Lakes better than most of the Prince
> William schools? Probably.
> Is South Lakes in the top 20% of American schools?
> Probably.
>
> The anti-RD folks have proposed nothing save for
> vague ideas about a magnet school at SL and less
> vague threats of a lawsuit. A few anti-RD parents
> have said things that an unsympathetic ear might
> say are racist (the 'Bratz' parent and the parents
> who seem to equal South Lakes with Eastern HS in
> DC come to mind) but probably just came out worse
> than they intended. I also think they object
> mainly to their kids going to school with poor
> trash, as opposed to brown kids (I suspect most of
> these parents would not want to send their kids
> out to the Frederick/Warren/Shenandoah County
> schools, either, despite those systems being as
> lily-white as the Langley and Madison pyramids.)
>
> In the meantime, many of them whine about South
> County Middle School and propose moving kids in
> the southern part of the county around in much the
> same way kids are being moved around in the
> northwestern part of the county.
>
> I just wonder what could be done if half the
> energy the anti-RD folks spend complaining about
> South Lakes was spent working/doing stuff with
> their kids. Or if that is unpalatable, maybe
> working harder at their jobs so they could move to
> the Langley, Oakton, Madison (or even George
> Mason) zones.
>
> As for AP and IB -- take NOVA or Mason courses if
> colleges are being jerks about accepting IB (and
> I'll acknowledge that IB seems to be the inferior
> product if colleges aren't accepting IB classes
> for credit.)


I take it you weren't affected by the RD, weren't you? What kind of joke was your post with? Did you read the entire thread to understand the process why it's been so controversial? There's been NO sympathy or understanding from the SB (the 10 of them)towards the RDed families and now with the local government sympthazing with fcps for going through a difficult RD, what a frigging joke and now your post?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: trading votes? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:44AM

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>CAPS needs to change their slogan. I have to
> > > agree that the schools are the county schools
> > not
> > > our schools. Let's be adults people.<<<<
> >
> > The schools are not our's? Who do YOU think
> they
> > belong to, if not the people who pay for them?
> Of
> > course they are our schools.
>
> It could be she meant the schools belong to the
> other 900k residents of Fairfax County and not
> just the 30-40k who are affected by this process,
> and that the School Board has to take into account
> the needs of the ENTIRE county and not just a few
> hundred parents.

Yes - the school board should take into account the needs of the entire county. It has 3 at-large members while the Board of Supervisors has 1 extra [Connelly].

Last SB had 2 at -larges who spent significant time, effort, and energy on advocating for the NEW South County Middle School- Olezack and Hunt. Moon [who most thought would primarily advocate for academics and re-allocation of resources for operational efficiency] does SQUAT.

Hone and Raney were off target in amendments. They were repetitive - same theme - when the only spark of interest came when Phil Nejilski-Eichner brought up the EXCLUSION of Falls Church from Raney's list.

They did not seem to investigate the history of various sending areas. Last year the SB did changes for Kilmer GTC and many are very aware of WHO goes where. The Madison Island stuck out like a sore thumb in that process since it was the only Madison area left at Kilmer GTC instead of Jackson GTC. There was movement over the years into Sunrise Valley GTC from MI's Louise Archer feed.

Navy- when Westfield opened the SB tried to move them into Oakton. This time they succeeded. Independently of Navy, I was dissapointed that there was no amendment flipping other Chantilly areas into Westfield. Plus no amendment on anything else.





>


> ...The anti-RD folks have proposed nothing save for
> vague ideas about a magnet school at SL and less
> vague threats of a lawsuit...

>about South
> County Middle School and propose moving kids in
> the southern part of the county around in much the
> same way kids are being moved around in the
> northwestern part of the county...

Why not move kids around? Bradsher-Storck-Hyland-Davis -Albo . How many are school board members? TWO. There are 10 other school board members. While Bradsher is the Springfield District Rep, the actual West Springfiled HS is a dump and some board members put more kids into it in the GRreat Escape from Lee when South County opened.

The next year they did another boundary process to try to move more out of Lee - nice developement called Daventry. Last year the western portion of a South County Boundary process was CANCELLED IN THE FALL to PACIFY Bradsher and the above mentionned cronies. These creeps live closer to Lake Braddock than many students who go there.

The Silverbrookers attend Middle School GT center at Lake Braddock.

Now that more students are assigned to South Lakes I DO NOT CARE what politician promised something or traded a vote. Perhaps these trades are the source of the Langley and Westfield additions.

How was IB despite it's costs placed in so many schools? IB went in back when Spillane was the Supt. Later school board members traded votes to get IB - it was never the intention to have such a costly program in so many schools. Jay Matthews wrote about IB and FCPS in Supertest.

He might have written some board members traded votes for stuff as measly as playgrounds.

>
> As for AP and IB -- take NOVA or Mason courses if
> colleges are being jerks about accepting IB (and
> I'll acknowledge that IB seems to be the inferior
> product if colleges aren't accepting IB classes
> for credit.)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NJ/VA ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:46AM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> formerhick76 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >>>CAPS needs to change their slogan. I have
> to
> > > > agree that the schools are the county
> schools
> > > not
> > > > our schools. Let's be adults people.<<<<
> > >
> > > The schools are not our's? Who do YOU think
> > they
> > > belong to, if not the people who pay for them?
>
> > Of
> > > course they are our schools.
> >
> > It could be she meant the schools belong to the
> > other 900k residents of Fairfax County and not
> > just the 30-40k who are affected by this
> process,
> > and that the School Board has to take into
> account
> > the needs of the ENTIRE county and not just a
> few
> > hundred parents.
> >
> > Is South Lakes a bad school by Fairfax
> standards?
> > Sure.
> > Is South Lakes better than most of the Prince
> > William schools? Probably.
> > Is South Lakes in the top 20% of American
> schools?
> > Probably.
> >
> > The anti-RD folks have proposed nothing save
> for
> > vague ideas about a magnet school at SL and
> less
> > vague threats of a lawsuit. A few anti-RD
> parents
> > have said things that an unsympathetic ear
> might
> > say are racist (the 'Bratz' parent and the
> parents
> > who seem to equal South Lakes with Eastern HS
> in
> > DC come to mind) but probably just came out
> worse
> > than they intended. I also think they object
> > mainly to their kids going to school with poor
> > trash, as opposed to brown kids (I suspect most
> of
> > these parents would not want to send their kids
> > out to the Frederick/Warren/Shenandoah County
> > schools, either, despite those systems being as
> > lily-white as the Langley and Madison pyramids.)
>
> >
> > In the meantime, many of them whine about South
> > County Middle School and propose moving kids in
> > the southern part of the county around in much
> the
> > same way kids are being moved around in the
> > northwestern part of the county.
> >
> > I just wonder what could be done if half the
> > energy the anti-RD folks spend complaining
> about
> > South Lakes was spent working/doing stuff with
> > their kids. Or if that is unpalatable, maybe
> > working harder at their jobs so they could move
> to
> > the Langley, Oakton, Madison (or even George
> > Mason) zones.
> >
> > As for AP and IB -- take NOVA or Mason courses
> if
> > colleges are being jerks about accepting IB
> (and
> > I'll acknowledge that IB seems to be the
> inferior
> > product if colleges aren't accepting IB classes
> > for credit.)
>
>
> I take it you weren't affected by the RD, weren't
> you? What kind of joke was your post with? Did
> you read the entire thread to understand the
> process why it's been so controversial? There's
> been NO sympathy or understanding from the SB (the
> 10 of them)towards the RDed families and now with
> the local government sympthazing with fcps for
> going through a difficult RD, what a frigging joke
> and now your post?

Boo, freakin', hoo. What a whiner. Go to work. Pay attention -- real attention - to your kid. You are a sniveling loser with an appropriate name. I am tired of listening to complaints about why you lost. Fuhgeddaboutit. STFU.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: In charge ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:48AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>CAPS needs to change their slogan. I have to
> > agree that the schools are the county schools
> not
> > our schools. Let's be adults people.<<<<
>
> The schools are not our's? Who do YOU think they
> belong to, if not the people who pay for them? Of
> course they are our schools.
>
> Would someone please explain that to Mrs.Forest
> Gump, Liz Bradsher? She's cluelessly thinking
> that the schools now belong to her since she's now
> on the school board. She's either very stupid or
> very arrogant, most likely both. Neither is
> attractive. She and the South Lakes PTSA have
> formed a mutual admiration society. How very
> fitting, Dumb and Dumber forming an alliance in
> ignorance and arrogance.


And who exactly died and left you in charge?

You talk about others being either very stupid or very arrogant - I guess your comment about Dumb and Dumber makes you either very smart or very humble. I think you are just a hopeless hypocrite. Get a life, will you. You are spending way too much time on this board. It's done, it does not affect you.

Got nothing else better to do - go help out your friends at fairfaxCAPS

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:57AM

TGIF, I didn't accuse anyone of racism. On the contrary:

"I also think they object mainly to their kids going to school with poor trash, as opposed to brown kids (I suspect most of these parents would not want to send their kids out to the Frederick/Warren/Shenandoah County schools, either, despite those systems being as lily-white as the Langley and Madison pyramids.)"

OK, so lily-white was the wrong word to use there. But my point is that affected parents think SL is full of trash and to a lesser extent dislike the IB program.

If you object to my assertion, then riddle me this: would there be as much of a hubbub if this were a redrawing of Oakton, Madison, and Langley boundaries? Would Langley suddenly become unfashionable if a new principal put in an IB programme?

"and screwing hundreds of affected families helped families in other schools how exactly?"

So how do you propose utilizing the overcapacity in some of the less favorable high schools? Expand the fashionable high schools? Raising taxes on everyone else when the fashionable high schools get overcrowded and need expansion while SL sits there with an 800-student deficit?

Baffled,

I graduated from a high school that makes South Lakes look like the Taj Mahal in terms of quality of instruction. Pardon me for not having much sympathy towards those who are forced to choose between a Cadillac and a Buick. According to greatschools.net and the Washington Post:

My alma mater -- 2 of 10 on overall score; 14% free lunch; 88% white, 7% black, 3% hispanic; 0.480 challenge index (this is lower than Wilson, Cardozo, and H.D. Woodson)

South Lakes -- 4 of 10 on overall score; 25% free lunch; 46% white, 21% black, 16% hispanic, 11% asian; 1.475 challenge index (includes the IB tests)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Support the kids ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:00AM

First off, the RD process was fair. The SB sought public input, developed plans, held hearings, developed more plans, held another hearing and then made a decision. This is how government works. You get input and then make a decision that is good for the whole not the individual. We don't always agree with the decision but we live with it. I don't agree with our role in Iraq and I will exercise my vote to bring an end to the Iraq conflict. So, NO Law Suit. Now the SB has TWO decisions it needs to make. One is direct SLHS to implement AP this fall beginning with the 9th grade class. This should be easy to implement over a four year period. 9th grade is just pre-AP courses. Second is allow older siblings to move with their younger siblings and not be considered pupil placed. Parents need to quit being so negative in front of their kids so the kids go into the new school year with a positive attitude. If not, you may see alot of kids fail.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:02AM

trading votes: I've been in Arlington for the past few years so I am not as familiar with the internal politics of the FCSB as are you.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:07AM

Support the kids: I'll agree with you. Until IB is accepted for college credit the same as AP, the two are simply NOT the same. Also, the need for bodies to fill up SL is not so urgent, so keeping families together can be done.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: memememememe ()
Date: March 07, 2008 08:46AM

Support the kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First off, the RD process was fair. The SB sought
> public input, developed plans, held hearings,
> developed more plans, held another hearing and
> then made a decision. This is how government
> works. You get input and then make a decision
> that is good for the whole not the individual. We
> don't always agree with the decision but we live
> with it. I don't agree with our role in Iraq and
> I will exercise my vote to bring an end to the
> Iraq conflict. So, NO Law Suit. Now the SB has
> TWO decisions it needs to make. One is direct
> SLHS to implement AP this fall beginning with the
> 9th grade class. This should be easy to implement
> over a four year period. 9th grade is just pre-AP
> courses. Second is allow older siblings to move
> with their younger siblings and not be considered
> pupil placed. Parents need to quit being so
> negative in front of their kids so the kids go
> into the new school year with a positive attitude.
> If not, you may see alot of kids fail.



why not go the other way around if you have older siblings in high school the younger ones can follow and this is NOT pupil placed. the school board admittedly screwed up, we as tax paying citizens of FC need to remember this the next time these idiots come up for election. they have created a great amount of unnecessary controversy and we can not let it happen again. for those of you that were not affected don't be so sure NAVy was not going to be touched until the 11th hour when the loser smith rolled over. keep going to SB meetings, make these meeting HELL for these members, we need to monitor all thier activies adn find the corruption that they are doing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:01AM

memememememe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Support the kids Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > First off, the RD process was fair. The SB
> sought
> > public input, developed plans, held hearings,
> > developed more plans, held another hearing and
> > then made a decision. This is how government
> > works. You get input and then make a decision
> > that is good for the whole not the individual.
> We
> > don't always agree with the decision but we
> live
> > with it. I don't agree with our role in Iraq
> and
> > I will exercise my vote to bring an end to the
> > Iraq conflict. So, NO Law Suit. Now the SB
> has
> > TWO decisions it needs to make. One is direct
> > SLHS to implement AP this fall beginning with
> the
> > 9th grade class. This should be easy to
> implement
> > over a four year period. 9th grade is just
> pre-AP
> > courses. Second is allow older siblings to
> move
> > with their younger siblings and not be
> considered
> > pupil placed. Parents need to quit being so
> > negative in front of their kids so the kids go
> > into the new school year with a positive
> attitude.
> > If not, you may see alot of kids fail.
>
>
>
> why not go the other way around if you have older
> siblings in high school the younger ones can
> follow and this is NOT pupil placed. the school
> board admittedly screwed up, we as tax paying
> citizens of FC need to remember this the next time
> these idiots come up for election. they have
> created a great amount of unnecessary controversy
> and we can not let it happen again. for those of
> you that were not affected don't be so sure NAVy
> was not going to be touched until the 11th hour
> when the loser smith rolled over. keep going to
> SB meetings, make these meeting HELL for these
> members, we need to monitor all thier activies adn
> find the corruption that they are doing.

FCPS went to extraordinary measures to keep any Langley areas out of Herndon and South Lakes. Fine with Gibson since his Hunter Mill Aldrin people are happy. Now FCPS thinks everyone in this county will be complacent on the South County Middle School?

That is a battle worth fighting. It has to be done now before facilities spends any actual cash or does site planning. The budget is difficult. Do you want your property taxes to increase for that?

If Navy can go about 4 miles further to Oakton , Silverbrook can send students to Lake Braddock.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: best practice ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:16AM

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So how do you propose utilizing the overcapacity
> in some of the less favorable high schools? Expand
> the fashionable high schools? Raising taxes on
> everyone else when the fashionable high schools
> get overcrowded and need expansion while SL sits
> there with an 800-student deficit?
>

Best practice in any enterprise is

1. Build on success

2. Fix poor performance

This RD has rewarded poor performance and punished the communities which have worked to build high performing schools - makes no sense

The causes of the attendance / resistance to RD issues at SLHS are related to performance and programs not the other way around. The performance issue is even more stark at Hughes.

If there is a capacity opportunity at SLHS, it should have been used to attract students through a rigorous high performance magnet.

I've heard no parents at Oakton or Madison complaining about over crowding, and very few at Chantilly and Westfields.

No-one has advocated expanding oakton or madison - just leaving the communities alone.

No-one has complained about the extra investment SLHS received in terms of higher staff:student ratios

This was always about the SLHS community and hang everyone else

Busing kids in to solve a performance problem is not a real solution. Kids are not resources.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: no real excuse ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:34AM

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Also, the need for
> bodies to fill up SL is not so urgent, so keeping
> families together can be done.

so don't do it at all

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: World against u ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:44AM

best practice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> formerhick76 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > So how do you propose utilizing the
> overcapacity
> > in some of the less favorable high schools?
> Expand
> > the fashionable high schools? Raising taxes on
> > everyone else when the fashionable high schools
> > get overcrowded and need expansion while SL
> sits
> > there with an 800-student deficit?
> >
>
> Best practice in any enterprise is
>
> 1. Build on success
>
> 2. Fix poor performance
>
> This RD has rewarded poor performance and punished
> the communities which have worked to build high
> performing schools - makes no sense
>
> The causes of the attendance / resistance to RD
> issues at SLHS are related to performance and
> programs not the other way around. The performance
> issue is even more stark at Hughes.
>
> If there is a capacity opportunity at SLHS, it
> should have been used to attract students through
> a rigorous high performance magnet.
>
> I've heard no parents at Oakton or Madison
> complaining about over crowding, and very few at
> Chantilly and Westfields.
>
> No-one has advocated expanding oakton or madison -
> just leaving the communities alone.
>
> No-one has complained about the extra investment
> SLHS received in terms of higher staff:student
> ratios
>
> This was always about the SLHS community and hang
> everyone else
>
> Busing kids in to solve a performance problem is
> not a real solution. Kids are not resources.


Yup, the WHOLE world got up in the morning one day and decided to screw MI, Floris, and Fox Mill. At least Navy's complaint is legit.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: best practice ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:52AM

World against u Wrote:
-
>
> Yup, the WHOLE world got up in the morning one day
> and decided to screw MI, Floris, and Fox Mill. At
> least Navy's complaint is legit.


Nah - much more focused effort than that. In MI's case it seems to be just Stu and Janie - its too few kids to bother anyone else one way or the other

Most of FFX has no view either way - its only SLHS who wanted this

so

SLHS - for RD
MI, Navy, Floris and fox mill - against RD
rest of FFX - couldn't care less

and the SB votes 10:2 - go figure

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SBS ()
Date: March 07, 2008 09:58AM

Support the kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First off, the RD process was fair. The SB sought
> public input, developed plans, held hearings,
> developed more plans, held another hearing and
> then made a decision.

This is exactly the result the SB wants you to believe. There was NOTHING fair about it, they COMPLETELY ignored public input, and they knew their final scenario long before the 1st "public hearing".

> One is direct
> SLHS to implement AP this fall beginning with the
> 9th grade class. This should be easy to implement
> over a four year period. 9th grade is just pre-AP
> courses.

If they actually did that, it would be a good thing. They are NOT going to implement the AP program however. All they are doing is offering a couple of AP courses as bread crumbs. That is not implementing AP.

> Second is allow older siblings to move
> with their younger siblings and not be considered
> pupil placed.

I guess you don't have any kids in high school do you. That is a stupid idea. If you think people would support yanking their kid(s) from their current high school after 1, 2, of 3 years, you really are ignorant.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: West County vs. Myopia ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:05AM

World against u Wrote:
> Yup, the WHOLE world got up in the morning one day
> and decided to screw MI, Floris, and Fox Mill. At
> least Navy's complaint is legit.


Dear "World against u",

Read Best Practice's comment again. You must have misunderstood. It's a sound argument on quality management and also a good explanation for why so many people throughout West County worked so hard to avoid being redistricted to South Lakes, not just those in Madison "Island", "East" Floris and Fox Mill.

Here is Best Practice's comment again:

"Best practice in any enterprise is

1. Build on success

2. Fix poor performance

This RD has rewarded poor performance and punished the communities which have worked to build high performing schools - makes no sense

The causes of the attendance / resistance to RD issues at SLHS are related to performance and programs not the other way around. The performance issue is even more stark at Hughes.

If there is a capacity opportunity at SLHS, it should have been used to attract students through a rigorous high performance magnet.

I've heard no parents at Oakton or Madison complaining about over crowding, and very few at Chantilly and Westfields.

No-one has advocated expanding oakton or madison - just leaving the communities alone.

No-one has complained about the extra investment SLHS received in terms of higher staff:student ratios

This was always about the SLHS community and hang everyone else

Busing kids in to solve a performance problem is not a real solution. Kids are not resources."


Right.

It's NOT about race, poverty, diversity, car washes, Lake Ann meetings, big homes, those who shout the loudest or send the most email, former or future school districts, the Reston community, the Stu recall, all schools being great next to other schools in the country, which color T-shirt you wear or anything else like that.

It IS about demonstrated performance and rewarding success.

Other communities wanted--and still want--what they had before because the performance measures were better at those schools. Because they wanted to send their kids to the schools that perform better by those measures. Because they love their kids.

In other words, it's not all about you.

Keep it up, Best Practices!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:06AM

NJ/VA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > formerhick76 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Neen Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > >>>CAPS needs to change their slogan. I
> have
> > to
> > > > > agree that the schools are the county
> > schools
> > > > not
> > > > > our schools. Let's be adults people.<<<<
> > > >
> > > > The schools are not our's? Who do YOU
> think
> > > they
> > > > belong to, if not the people who pay for
> them?
> >
> > > Of
> > > > course they are our schools.
> > >
> > > It could be she meant the schools belong to
> the
> > > other 900k residents of Fairfax County and
> not
> > > just the 30-40k who are affected by this
> > process,
> > > and that the School Board has to take into
> > account
> > > the needs of the ENTIRE county and not just a
> > few
> > > hundred parents.
> > >
> > > Is South Lakes a bad school by Fairfax
> > standards?
> > > Sure.
> > > Is South Lakes better than most of the Prince
> > > William schools? Probably.
> > > Is South Lakes in the top 20% of American
> > schools?
> > > Probably.
> > >
> > > The anti-RD folks have proposed nothing save
> > for
> > > vague ideas about a magnet school at SL and
> > less
> > > vague threats of a lawsuit. A few anti-RD
> > parents
> > > have said things that an unsympathetic ear
> > might
> > > say are racist (the 'Bratz' parent and the
> > parents
> > > who seem to equal South Lakes with Eastern HS
> > in
> > > DC come to mind) but probably just came out
> > worse
> > > than they intended. I also think they object
> > > mainly to their kids going to school with
> poor
> > > trash, as opposed to brown kids (I suspect
> most
> > of
> > > these parents would not want to send their
> kids
> > > out to the Frederick/Warren/Shenandoah County
> > > schools, either, despite those systems being
> as
> > > lily-white as the Langley and Madison
> pyramids.)
> >
> > >
> > > In the meantime, many of them whine about
> South
> > > County Middle School and propose moving kids
> in
> > > the southern part of the county around in
> much
> > the
> > > same way kids are being moved around in the
> > > northwestern part of the county.
> > >
> > > I just wonder what could be done if half the
> > > energy the anti-RD folks spend complaining
> > about
> > > South Lakes was spent working/doing stuff
> with
> > > their kids. Or if that is unpalatable, maybe
> > > working harder at their jobs so they could
> move
> > to
> > > the Langley, Oakton, Madison (or even George
> > > Mason) zones.
> > >
> > > As for AP and IB -- take NOVA or Mason
> courses
> > if
> > > colleges are being jerks about accepting IB
> > (and
> > > I'll acknowledge that IB seems to be the
> > inferior
> > > product if colleges aren't accepting IB
> classes
> > > for credit.)
> >
> >
> > I take it you weren't affected by the RD,
> weren't
> > you? What kind of joke was your post with?
> Did
> > you read the entire thread to understand the
> > process why it's been so controversial?
> There's
> > been NO sympathy or understanding from the SB
> (the
> > 10 of them)towards the RDed families and now
> with
> > the local government sympthazing with fcps for
> > going through a difficult RD, what a frigging
> joke
> > and now your post?
>
> Boo, freakin', hoo. What a whiner. Go to work.
> Pay attention -- real attention - to your kid.
> You are a sniveling loser with an appropriate
> name. I am tired of listening to complaints about
> why you lost. Fuhgeddaboutit. STFU.


I don't normally feed trolls like you, but as my monkier stands, I have never understood how this RD process would have really had helped both sides. Now, take your sniveling remarks to somewhere else. Thank you. By the way (not for you NJ/VA), for those who are working on pupil placements, my kid and I (yes I am very involved and pay real attention to my kid)went to meet with Mr. Butler and the very first thing he said to us was he hated to lose good academic role models like my kid based on my kid's grades (he did check on the computer). We just stared at him blankly for a moment with how he greeted us (he was very nice though) and then proceeded to talk about the IB program. After the meeting, my kid told me she was under the impression SL wanted high performing kids at their school. She said that kids are kids with feelings and are human beings, not resources.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:15AM

Baffled, this is just the thing that is so frustrating. There is never any mention or consideration for what this RD can do for our students. It's just SLHS, SLHS, SLHS. Well, quite frankly I am not going to let the dunderheads on the school board determine the next four years of my child's education.

It makes me think that this RD was all about improving the stats without even giving us a line of BS about what it will do for us.

Just how weak and helpless do the SB and SLHS communities think we are -- or more accurately -- should be?

I have delivered my pupil-placement forms. If that fails, I will rent in the Oakton boundary.


Baffled, I can relate to how you feel and what you felt you had to do. Good luck to us both

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: pupil placement ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:18AM

TODAY STAFF WILL TELL THE BOARD HOW THEY PLAN ON DEALING WITH PUPIL PLACEMENTS.

WHAT IF THE BOARDS/STAFF'S GOAL IN THIS STUDY WASNT JUST TO BALANCE SLHS BUT HERNDON AS WELL?

IF WE ARE ALL SENT TO HERNDON, WOULDNT THAT EXPLAIN HERNDON'S PTA'S ROLE IN THIS CHARADE?

THIS WOULD ALSO EXPLAIN JANIES ROLE. HERE IS MY BET... MADISON, CHANTILLY, OAKTON AND WESTFIELDS WILL ALL CLOSE THEIR DOORS TO PUPIL PLACEMENTS FOR 08/09 FORCING US TO HERNDON FOR AP.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:21AM

How can they close Oakton when it will have 200 slots open? It was open for placement last year and without the RD it would have still been open. Navy will in no way fill it to capacity, even if all of them come. And that doesn't seem likely from comments on this board.

Oakton will be open next year. It would be really interesting if they close a school whose own principal has said would be underenrolled next year without Navy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Let me guess ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:26AM

pupil placement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TODAY STAFF WILL TELL THE BOARD HOW THEY PLAN ON
> DEALING WITH PUPIL PLACEMENTS.
>
> WHAT IF THE BOARDS/STAFF'S GOAL IN THIS STUDY
> WASNT JUST TO BALANCE SLHS BUT HERNDON AS WELL?
>
> IF WE ARE ALL SENT TO HERNDON, WOULDNT THAT
> EXPLAIN HERNDON'S PTA'S ROLE IN THIS CHARADE?
>
> THIS WOULD ALSO EXPLAIN JANIES ROLE. HERE IS MY
> BET... MADISON, CHANTILLY, OAKTON AND WESTFIELDS
> WILL ALL CLOSE THEIR DOORS TO PUPIL PLACEMENTS FOR
> 08/09 FORCING US TO HERNDON FOR AP.

So if that happens then, let me guess, Herndon will become the next whipping boy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:26AM

FormerHick76 - I concur with the sentiments that efforts ought to be expended towards helping students to perform better. This is why I can't see the benefit of litigation directed towards the redistricting. And further, query what the litigants think they will receive in the form of a remedy if they fail to get preliminary injunctive relief - if they do not - the process will march on and money will spent with scant possibility for a meaningful ultimate remedy. Now, the potential litigants may know something we don't - always a possibility - but it seems like litigation makes no sense.

As far as improving the lesser performing schools and their students, let's not forget that is the cause of the this whole imbroglio. And unlike your former high school - which of course may have been demographically far different when you attended than greatschools.net now reflects - we have resources and money in Fairfax, and perhaps can show real progress.

I would love to see the challenge recited below accepted by the School Board and in particular Stu Gibson with respect to the 4 or 5 so worst performing elementary and middle schools in the district:

1. Obtain a commitment to hire world class principals at each of these schools, no matter the cost.

2. Get agreement with the teachers union that these schools are special cases, and that teachers assigned there will be the best, but will be expected to perform and function and be evaluated at the highest level - with the understanding that they also will be paid more (i.e., use Title 1 funds to pay great teachers more - more teachers and a better teacher student ratio is meaningless without great teachers - great teachers make more of a difference than bodies - and to be clear - some great teachers are already at these schools so I am not being overly critical - treat them better and attract more of the same).

3. Get agreement to junk the Fairfax County curriculum for these schools.

4. These schools will focus on fundamentals - both in terms of phonetic reading and traditional, hard wired memory based math, but also in terms of conduct. Although difficult to enforce (and some public schools do this), have each parent sign a contract that sets out their expectations to do homework. Make it clear that student success is a school/parent enterprise and that the entitlement attitude shown by many parents of lower performing students will be unacceptable. Make the contract fair and tough - and if parents don't sign it - visit the home - let community peer pressure work to the utmost.

5. Make discipline and conduct a priority - be fair, but firm, and save some of that legal money that the School Board has set aside to support teachers when the inevitable call from the ACLU/NAACP comes that students are being targeted unfairly (and yes, this happens more than you think). Don't set a double standard and engage in a condescending pattern of low expectations. Fair, principled and tough need to be the daily standard - put in the principal's performance criteria - and pay for it.

6. Junk - and I mean junk - the ESOL program (except to have a certain cadre of trained speakers for emergency and other one-off situations). We have a remarkable history in this country of immigrants learning English and succeeding. Quit the enablement programs that while kind hearted do more harm than good. This of course is a shocking move to the school apparatchiks but is being discussed and even implemented in some areas of the country. It would have a short term shock but the status quo is depressing and not really reflecting progress - how much of a risk is it really given what is occurring now?

Now, none of these are easy - but can you imagine what kind of position anti-RD advocates would be in if the School Board can say - "Yes, we have some lower performing students and some come from lower socio-economic levels - but they have been part of a rigorous, fundamentals based education that has started to make them and will continue to make them well adjusted and contributing students?"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: pupil placement ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:26AM

FCPS WILL POST NEW PUPIL PLACEMENT INFORMATION ON MONDAY. WE WILL SEE.

CALL ME PARANOID, BUT I PUT NOTHING PAST THEM. THIS SUSPICION COMES FROM CONVERSATIONS MANY OF US HAVE HAD IN RECENT DAYS WITH SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS, STAFF AND SBMs.

I HOPE I AM WRONG, BELIEVE ME.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: wouldn't pass muster ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:37AM

pupil placement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS WILL POST NEW PUPIL PLACEMENT INFORMATION ON
> MONDAY. WE WILL SEE.
>
> CALL ME PARANOID, BUT I PUT NOTHING PAST THEM.
> THIS SUSPICION COMES FROM CONVERSATIONS MANY OF US
> HAVE HAD IN RECENT DAYS WITH SCHOOL
> ADMINISTRATORS, STAFF AND SBMs.
>
> I HOPE I AM WRONG, BELIEVE ME.

Using this to divert AP kids from Oakton and Madison to Herndon would not pass due process

Staff and SB might consider trying it but it wouldn't pass muster in court, even one which gives deference to SB's

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:38AM

FCFT tried to do what you wrote- phonics, math- and was slammed publically by Dr Daniel Domenech years ago. That is the smaller organization than FEA and main officers at the time were Judy Johnson and Rick Nelson. Now they stick to salary and benefits - no achievement and curriculum issue.

Domenech might have tried to cut off some of their benefits.

Someone had implied on this board that Crestwood was not successful. It had a period in the same era as the FCFT v Domenech when it had Core Knowledge, Open Court, Saxon Math. Chris Braunlich tried to get them Focus School money to buy the books etc that the school wanted. Scores at Crestwood were higher then some schools without significant numbers of FRPM and ESOL.

This school board spent most of it's last term finagling and wasting time on South County stuff rather than attending to business.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FormerHick76 - I concur with the sentiments that
> efforts ought to be expended towards helping
> students to perform better. This is why I can't
> see the benefit of litigation directed towards the
> redistricting. And further, query what the
> litigants think they will receive in the form of a
> remedy if they fail to get preliminary injunctive
> relief - if they do not - the process will march
> on and money will spent with scant possibility for
> a meaningful ultimate remedy. Now, the potential
> litigants may know something we don't - always a
> possibility - but it seems like litigation makes
> no sense.
>
> As far as improving the lesser performing schools
> and their students, let's not forget that is the
> cause of the this whole imbroglio. And unlike
> your former high school - which of course may have
> been demographically far different when you
> attended than greatschools.net now reflects - we
> have resources and money in Fairfax, and perhaps
> can show real progress.
>
> I would love to see the challenge recited below
> accepted by the School Board and in particular Stu
> Gibson with respect to the 4 or 5 so worst
> performing elementary and middle schools in the
> district:
>
> 1. Obtain a commitment to hire world class
> principals at each of these schools, no matter the
> cost.
>
> 2. Get agreement with the teachers union that
> these schools are special cases, and that teachers
> assigned there will be the best, but will be
> expected to perform and function and be evaluated
> at the highest level - with the understanding that
> they also will be paid more (i.e., use Title 1
> funds to pay great teachers more - more teachers
> and a better teacher student ratio is meaningless
> without great teachers - great teachers make more
> of a difference than bodies - and to be clear -
> some great teachers are already at these schools
> so I am not being overly critical - treat them
> better and attract more of the same).
>
> 3. Get agreement to junk the Fairfax County
> curriculum for these schools.
>
> 4. These schools will focus on fundamentals -
> both in terms of phonetic reading and traditional,
> hard wired memory based math, but also in terms of
> conduct. Although difficult to enforce (and some
> public schools do this), have each parent sign a
> contract that sets out their expectations to do
> homework. Make it clear that student success is a
> school/parent enterprise and that the entitlement
> attitude shown by many parents of lower performing
> students will be unacceptable. Make the contract
> fair and tough - and if parents don't sign it -
> visit the home - let community peer pressure work
> to the utmost.
>
> 5. Make discipline and conduct a priority - be
> fair, but firm, and save some of that legal money
> that the School Board has set aside to support
> teachers when the inevitable call from the
> ACLU/NAACP comes that students are being targeted
> unfairly (and yes, this happens more than you
> think). Don't set a double standard and engage in
> a condescending pattern of low expectations. Fair,
> principled and tough need to be the daily standard
> - put in the principal's performance criteria -
> and pay for it.
>
> 6. Junk - and I mean junk - the ESOL program
> (except to have a certain cadre of trained
> speakers for emergency and other one-off
> situations). We have a remarkable history in this
> country of immigrants learning English and
> succeeding. Quit the enablement programs that
> while kind hearted do more harm than good. This
> of course is a shocking move to the school
> apparatchiks but is being discussed and even
> implemented in some areas of the country. It
> would have a short term shock but the status quo
> is depressing and not really reflecting progress -
> how much of a risk is it really given what is
> occurring now?
>
> Now, none of these are easy - but can you imagine
> what kind of position anti-RD advocates would be
> in if the School Board can say - "Yes, we have
> some lower performing students and some come from
> lower socio-economic levels - but they have been
> part of a rigorous, fundamentals based education
> that has started to make them and will continue to
> make them well adjusted and contributing
> students?"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FM PTA member ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:42AM

F*** CAPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FM PTA member Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > What's wrong with forwarding Rona's email? I
> > would think it was perfectly reasonable to
> forward
> > so she could get more feedback. At the same
> time,
> > she knows who the orginal 100 were, so it was
> > clearly easy for her to separate the original
> > surveys from the extras--and with the extras
> she
> > could hear more from FM.
> >
> > I received one of the orginal surveys and
> nowhere
> > did it say not to forward AND nowhere did it
> say
> > that she was only going to provide results to
> the
> > FM community on the question of splitting the
> > neighborhood (#3)--and NOT the other questions.
>
> > At no time did she say that she was going to
> keep
> > the results of question 1 and 2 a secret. Is
> it
> > her right as the PTA president to keep this
> kind
> > of data to herself? I think most PTAs around
> the
> > USA would say NO. Rona is a good person, but
> she
> > made a big mistake here.
> >
> >
> > Please get YOUR FACTS straight. You were wrong
> > about FFN and you are wrong about Rona. Are
> you
> > right about anything? Do you have any facts or
> > accurate information at all or are you just a
> > silly blowhard?
>
>
> Whats wrong with forwarding Rona's email? You let
> a special interest outside our community hijack
> our school, that's whats wrong with it. Your
> probably the same person who sent that widely
> circulated email condeming Rona for not disclosing
> the purpose of the survey.
>
> I didn't get the survey, I got an email from
> FxCAPS that I'm sure everyone else reading this
> blog got asking me to respond and copy FxCAPS for
> "verification." If you feel that the FM PTA
> business is also the business of anyone other than
> FMES parents, students, faculty and staff then you
> really should resign immediately.


You are a nut and your agenda is pathetically obvious. All PTA business should be transparent. There should be no secrets within the PTA. Only FM families were forwarded the survey. Are you suggesting that others outside of FM were responding? Do you think FL and MI was responding to Rona's survey? (BTW, I did not forward Rona's survey when it first arrived and I didn't send out a follow-up email...but I applaud the woman who did. She--like the rest of us--were waiting for full disclosure of ALL the survey data--not selective pieces. She asked for it privately at first, then demanded it publicly.

Talking about hijacking a community--It was a special interest inside the FM PTA that was the hijacking our school--NOT WANTING TO SHARE THAT EVEN MORE PEOPLE WANTED TO GO TO OAKTON THAN WERE OPPOSED TO SPLITTING THE SCHOOL. Caps has been successfully trying to piece together the results (from the original 100 surveyed)so that ALL the information from the survey was available to FM families. I'm very glad they stepped in, since out own PTA wouldn't step up.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FM PTA member ()
Date: March 07, 2008 10:51AM

pupil placement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TODAY STAFF WILL TELL THE BOARD HOW THEY PLAN ON
> DEALING WITH PUPIL PLACEMENTS.
>
> WHAT IF THE BOARDS/STAFF'S GOAL IN THIS STUDY
> WASNT JUST TO BALANCE SLHS BUT HERNDON AS WELL?
>
> IF WE ARE ALL SENT TO HERNDON, WOULDNT THAT
> EXPLAIN HERNDON'S PTA'S ROLE IN THIS CHARADE?
>
> THIS WOULD ALSO EXPLAIN JANIES ROLE. HERE IS MY
> BET... MADISON, CHANTILLY, OAKTON AND WESTFIELDS
> WILL ALL CLOSE THEIR DOORS TO PUPIL PLACEMENTS FOR
> 08/09 FORCING US TO HERNDON FOR AP.


There are no AP slots open at Madison, and only like 17 open AP slots at Herndon. Those schools cannot accommodate all the folks from FM that want to pupil place out--and obviously Oakton now has space. Also, if they try to shut down the pupil placement process in this case, what about the SL boundary kids who have already pupil placed out...or all the kids who pupil place at different schools around thec county. They can't create different rules for this situation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: arbitrary and capricious? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 11:05AM

FM PTA member Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are no AP slots open at Madison, and only
> like 17 open AP slots at Herndon. Those schools
> cannot accommodate all the folks from FM that want
> to pupil place out--and obviously Oakton now has
> space. Also, if they try to shut down the pupil
> placement process in this case, what about the SL
> boundary kids who have already pupil placed
> out...or all the kids who pupil place at different
> schools around thec county. They can't create
> different rules for this situation.



It seems only fair to allow Madison AP candidates to place back to Madison as the places they would have used have not been back filled by the RD.

To do otherwise would be arbitrary and capricious and open the window for judicial review of due process.

Frankly, it would make a lot of sense for kids placing from the old SLHS boundaries to be placed at the back of the placement queue given the support SLHS gave to RD - that would make for some interesting PTSA meetings

When things like this happen 'by coincidence' the courts tend to prick up their ears

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Pupil Place ()
Date: March 07, 2008 11:06AM

FM PTA Member-

From where did you get the information on available AP slots? Please share.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: March 07, 2008 11:12AM

Taxpayer - I have no doubt medium grade variants have been tried in the past, and that those at the top fully rife with modern educational pedagogy discouraged these efforts. But I propose more than a medium grade effort, and frankly, it is not unreasonable to ask the School Board - which should exhibit some degree of independence and real oversight over the schools (don't forget these are the same liberals that demand much greater corporate oversight and regulation) - to show some leadership in these areas. And let's look at this another way - does anyone really think there will be material improvements at these schools without some fairly drastic actions? (By the way, I intuit that you do not disagree with the content of my post but rather on the probability of it ever happening - an exceedingly fair point you make).

South Pinellas County has some of the worst performing schools in the country. They are in turn saddled by a consent decree that requires a certain racial mix in all of the schools. This results in only 2 of their significant number of elementary schools meeting NCLB thresholds - the 2 schools - of course - being Fundamentals schools that do much of what I describe above. The program works (I have spoken as a guest speaker at one of these schools) - and requires parental involvement and is unfortunately in South Pinellas limited to 2 schools because there is a real shortage of minority parents who are willing to agree to meet the parental participation requirement - and the consent decree thus restricts or inhibits further implementation of this successful program. It is not a GT school - although there are GT pull-outs. There are 8 or 9 students on the waiting list (non-minority) for every one spot available - a Harvard or Yale acceptance rate, if you will, all limited by a cultural unwillingness of certain parents to undervalue education and a consent decree ever vigilantly watched by a civil rights organization stuck in the 60's. And not all or even a majority of students in the fundamentals schools are middle to higher income students - the biggest threshold and factor is parental involvement and a commitment to discipline and homework. These schools have good teachers (they don't get paid any more) whose common refrain is that they would have quit teaching but for these programs - they are teachers - and got tired of acting liking prison wardens. Again, my point is that there are programs that can make a difference - and I think it is really, really disturbing that this wealthy county has not adopted them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Pupil Placement ()
Date: March 07, 2008 11:12AM

IF WE ARE BLOCKED FROM ACCESSING AP IN OUR CLOSEST SCHOOL AND SENT TO FAR AWAY HERNDON, IT WOULD CERTAINLY LEND TO THE APPEARANCE OF A CORRUPT SYSTEM.

I WOULD FEEL AS THOUGH MY CHILD IS IN FACT BEING TARGETED AND IS IN FACT FACING DISCRIMINATION.

AS THE ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS POSTER STATED THIS WILL RAISE AN EYEBROW OR TWO IN COURT. I DONT FOR ONE MINUTE BELIEVE THIS FACT WILL DETER THE STAFF OR THE BOARD. THEY VIEW THEMSELVES AS ACTING ABOVE THE LAW.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME ()
Date: March 07, 2008 11:20AM

I guess Butler needs to cover his butt so he has a record of his efforts to curb the loss of RD'd students. When I went there were some others waiting also and I got the impression that they were there for the same reason. And this was a while ago.

He must spend a lot of time meeting with parents who wish to pupil-place out.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Not Bussing ()
Date: March 07, 2008 11:50AM

best practice Wrote:
> Busing kids in to solve a performance problem is
> not a real solution. Kids are not resources.


In what way is it bussing? Every student redistricted to South Lakes will have a shorter commute than to their previously districted school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Not so ()
Date: March 07, 2008 11:58AM

Not exactly for Floris kids. And they sure will have a longer commute.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:23PM

Quantum-

While I respect your indepth knowledge of the FCPS curriculum, I must object to this idea that programs will only succeed in these low performing schools if parental participation is high.

Maybe you are the FCPS insider who suggested that they scrap their annual report on minority underachievement filled with facts and figures, and instead produce a fancy color brochure on how parents need to be more involved.

It is this "head in the sand" mentality that is causing these failures within our schools. Reality Check is needed here. Trickle down economics is not working. Many of these families are working 2-3 jobs just to keep food on the table and the lights on. They don't have time to go to PTA events or help out in the classroom. I am sure they would like to, but their choices are dictated by economics and lost wages.

This whole boundary war boils down to the fact that we have some lousy schools in FCPS that Dale and The SB have ignored. Parents don't want their kids to go to lousy schools and they are justified to think that way.

When we are ready to improve our underperforming schools, only then will these redistricting efforts succeed. We need to redraw all the lines-this is just the beginning.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: F*** CAPS ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:26PM

FM PTA member Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You are a nut and your agenda is pathetically
> obvious. All PTA business should be transparent.
> There should be no secrets within the PTA. Only
> FM families were forwarded the survey. Are you
> suggesting that others outside of FM were
> responding? Do you think FL and MI was responding
> to Rona's survey? (BTW, I did not forward Rona's
> survey when it first arrived and I didn't send out
> a follow-up email...but I applaud the woman who
> did. She--like the rest of us--were waiting for
> full disclosure of ALL the survey data--not
> selective pieces. She asked for it privately at
> first, then demanded it publicly.
>
> Talking about hijacking a community--It was a
> special interest inside the FM PTA that was the
> hijacking our school--NOT WANTING TO SHARE THAT
> EVEN MORE PEOPLE WANTED TO GO TO OAKTON THAN WERE
> OPPOSED TO SPLITTING THE SCHOOL. Caps has been
> successfully trying to piece together the results
> (from the original 100 surveyed)so that ALL the
> information from the survey was available to FM
> families. I'm very glad they stepped in, since
> out own PTA wouldn't step up.


Is everyone involved w/CAPS as dense as you appear to be?

YES, I'M SUGGESTING OTHERS OUTSIDE THE FM COMMUNITY WERE RESPONDING!

Lets see, what evidence could I possibly have of that. Well, for starters, CAPS stated in their email that they were sending it to "all individuals on the FairfaxCAPS list." There is also the fact that it was posted on this thread and that Rona sent a note in Tuesday packages stating that she got so overwhelmed with responses that the results were useless.

I do agree that activities of the FM PTA should be transparent, and Rona made a mistake there, but ONLY TO THE FME COMMUNITY, NOT ANY SPECIAL INTEREST OUTSIDE OR PARTIALLY OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY!

Whatever you say about agendas, the reality is this. Myself and several others I know would have been just as PO'd about this if a FM PTA member who also worked with the SL Boundary study group had forwarded it them and they then sent it to their mailing list encoraging everyone to respond and copy them so they could keep an "independent" record of results.

But go on, just keep assuming everyone that doesn't agree with you has an "agenda" to push. I'm sick of the rabid psychos on all sides and even this user name got old after the first post. Bye.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: student cencus question ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:28PM

Question:

Do I need answer to the student cencus survey? Since I am planning to move, if I fill that, Is that going to give them false data and count my kids in the future school which most likely we will not attend?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:30PM

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxpayer - I have no doubt medium grade variants
> have been tried in the past, and that those at the
> top fully rife with modern educational pedagogy
> discouraged these efforts. But I propose more
> than a medium grade effort, and frankly, it is not
> unreasonable to ask the School Board - which
> should exhibit some degree of independence and
> real oversight over the schools (don't forget
> these are the same liberals that demand much
> greater corporate oversight and regulation) - to
> show some leadership in these areas. And let's
> look at this another way - does anyone really
> think there will be material improvements at these
> schools without some fairly drastic actions? (By
> the way, I intuit that you do not disagree with
> the content of my post but rather on the
> probability of it ever happening - an exceedingly
> fair point you make).
>
> South Pinellas County has some of the worst
> performing schools in the country. They are in
> turn saddled by a consent decree that requires a
> certain racial mix in all of the schools. This
> results in only 2 of their significant number of
> elementary schools meeting NCLB thresholds - the 2
> schools - of course - being Fundamentals schools
> that do much of what I describe above. The
> program works (I have spoken as a guest speaker at
> one of these schools) - and requires parental
> involvement and is unfortunately in South Pinellas
> limited to 2 schools because there is a real
> shortage of minority parents who are willing to
> agree to meet the parental participation
> requirement - and the consent decree thus
> restricts or inhibits further implementation of
> this successful program. It is not a GT school -
> although there are GT pull-outs. There are 8 or 9
> students on the waiting list (non-minority) for
> every one spot available - a Harvard or Yale
> acceptance rate, if you will, all limited by a
> cultural unwillingness of certain parents to
> undervalue education and a consent decree ever
> vigilantly watched by a civil rights organization
> stuck in the 60's. And not all or even a majority
> of students in the fundamentals schools are middle
> to higher income students - the biggest threshold
> and factor is parental involvement and a
> commitment to discipline and homework. These
> schools have good teachers (they don't get paid
> any more) whose common refrain is that they would
> have quit teaching but for these programs - they
> are teachers - and got tired of acting liking
> prison wardens. Again, my point is that there are
> programs that can make a difference - and I think
> it is really, really disturbing that this wealthy
> county has not adopted them.


Your suggestions make sense, and are indeed consistent with disciplinary and accountability aspects of the programs I have read that Mel Riddile put into place at Stuart.

I do take exception to your position that an anti-RD lawsuit has no merit. The ideas you describe were discussed prior to the vote, but gained no traction with the political entities. Whether or not a lawsuit wins, it can help to bring light on the malfeasance of the SB. Having had long experience observing how changes to institutions occur, I have seen that in virtually all cases there needs to be a catalyst in the form of some perceived crisis. As long as the current SB thinks they were successful in dodging their true responsibilities (to improve the education they deliver) by the socio-economic relocation approach approved for SL, there is not a willing audience for your ideas.

Something needs to put them into a receptive frame of mind. Maybe a lawsuit can help to get their attention.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: F*** (F*** CAPS) ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:39PM

F*** CAPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
and Rona made a mistake there, but
> ONLY TO THE FME COMMUNITY, NOT ANY SPECIAL
> INTEREST OUTSIDE OR PARTIALLY OUTSIDE THE
> COMMUNITY!
>

Releasing partial results which suggested that the majority of FME would be okay with RD if they could stick together, not only did a disservice to FME but also to the other communities that were about to be RD'd

By making the RD for FME more likely (under dubious pretenses), this encouraged the entire ripple process - it was therefore an entirely political act in the mould of Erika's SLHS petition

Rona should be able to quote numbers for responses from non-FME emails - she knew who she sent the emails to and should have corrected for this or abandoned completely

my guess - that's not your problem - your problem is that the views of FME people were overwhelmingly against RD

to misrepresent the responses damaged the wider community

Are you suggesting that it was non FME's that tipped the result that FME wanted to stay together and that it would rather be split up?

If so, why did she publish that result and not the others?

bad judgement or bias towards RD - you decide

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME - ()
Date: March 07, 2008 12:52PM

F*** (F*** CAPS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> F*** CAPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> and Rona made a mistake there, but
> > ONLY TO THE FME COMMUNITY, NOT ANY SPECIAL
> > INTEREST OUTSIDE OR PARTIALLY OUTSIDE THE
> > COMMUNITY!
> >
>
> Releasing partial results which suggested that the
> majority of FME would be okay with RD if they
> could stick together, not only did a disservice to
> FME but also to the other communities that were
> about to be RD'd
>
> By making the RD for FME more likely (under
> dubious pretenses), this encouraged the entire
> ripple process - it was therefore an entirely
> political act in the mould of Erika's SLHS
> petition
>
> Rona should be able to quote numbers for responses
> from non-FME emails - she knew who she sent the
> emails to and should have corrected for this or
> abandoned completely
>
> my guess - that's not your problem - your problem
> is that the views of FME people were
> overwhelmingly against RD
>
> to misrepresent the responses damaged the wider
> community
>
> Are you suggesting that it was non FME's that
> tipped the result that FME wanted to stay together
> and that it would rather be split up?
>
> If so, why did she publish that result and not the
> others?
>
> bad judgement or bias towards RD - you decide


For all you FME folks, what was the outcome of the most recent FME PTA meeting? Rumor has it that there was virtually no talk or bitching about the RD, and that the FairfaxCAPS crew present was very quiet, and in the MINORITY.

So all you guys who still are pushing this agendA of continued dissent, I would check the pulse - if you want to waste your time, money and resources to continue to divide YOUR own COMMUNITY, I am not sure that you even have the support of your own people. Why don't you use your energy to do something positive and tangible?

Even for the FME community, help those looking to integrate ensure a smooth transition.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Pupil Placement ()
Date: March 07, 2008 01:02PM

It seems funny to me that there are still many on this post from each the pro and the anti RD sides that actually believe that the staff or the board took any of our desires into consideration.

Rona whoever didnt place some last straw on the camels back. Many of us met with every school board member and spoke to staff, hired attorneys and consultants, spent months pouring over data and sharing it with the press.

NONE OF IT MATTERED. This was predetermined and if you think otherwise you havent been paying attention. Examine the facts, the timing, the meetings with other neighbors who were excluded from the study, the meetings for years with south lakes parents, before the very first town hall meeting Bruce Butler knew he would be getting and I quote 125 kids next year.

Stop pointing fingers at eachother. The fact that people exist here knowing all of this that actually support these politicians and bureaucrats is amazing. Dont you see that the next time it could be your kid? As they say karma's a bitch.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: F*** CAPS ()
Date: March 07, 2008 01:08PM

F*** (F*** CAPS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> F*** CAPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> and Rona made a mistake there, but
> > ONLY TO THE FME COMMUNITY, NOT ANY SPECIAL
> > INTEREST OUTSIDE OR PARTIALLY OUTSIDE THE
> > COMMUNITY!
> >
>
> Releasing partial results which suggested that the
> majority of FME would be okay with RD if they
> could stick together, not only did a disservice to
> FME but also to the other communities that were
> about to be RD'd
>
> By making the RD for FME more likely (under
> dubious pretenses), this encouraged the entire
> ripple process - it was therefore an entirely
> political act in the mould of Erika's SLHS
> petition
>
> Rona should be able to quote numbers for responses
> from non-FME emails - she knew who she sent the
> emails to and should have corrected for this or
> abandoned completely
>
> my guess - that's not your problem - your problem
> is that the views of FME people were
> overwhelmingly against RD
>
> to misrepresent the responses damaged the wider
> community
>
> Are you suggesting that it was non FME's that
> tipped the result that FME wanted to stay together
> and that it would rather be split up?
>
> If so, why did she publish that result and not the
> others?
>
> bad judgement or bias towards RD - you decide


Just to be clear on this, I have no doubt whatsoever that there are more people, at least among those that have an opinion at all, against RD than for it in FME. I also don't think such a survey would have had any impact with the SB, it was just a reaction to Smith's FM split option.

The poll is useless though because of the CAPS involement. If CAPS felt the same way why didn't they just let those 100 people reply? The results would have still come out as staying at Oakton as the top priority, not splitting FM as the second and all going to SL as the last. If that had happened then CAPS could rightly claim afterwards that wasn't right to limit the poll to just a few select members of the FM community. Unless, of course, those 100 people were cherry picked by Rona to have pro-SL sympathies.

I type that in jest but I'm sure there are people who believe something along those lines took place. I don't know the motives of everyone on the FM PTA but based on available evidence, I think Rona only sent that out as a reaction to Smith's hair-brained proposal to split FME. Your milage may vary.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: F*** CAPS ()
Date: March 07, 2008 01:22PM

F*** (F*** CAPS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my guess - that's not your problem - your problem
> is that the views of FME people were
> overwhelmingly against RD

For the record, I have never signed a petition for either side and came into this leaning towards staying at Oakton. I still would prefer the status quo simply because it is the known quantity, at least in the community if not for me personally since my kids are still at FMES.

I suppose the one good thing to come of this is give FM parents with younger kids much closer scrutiny of the IB/AP issue than they would have otherwise.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Why? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 01:27PM

"The poll is useless though because of the CAPS involement. "

Why is that? Are they making up anything, are they holding back results? What makes you claim the mere mentioning of CAPS makes it invalid?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: F*C ()
Date: March 07, 2008 01:38PM

Why? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The poll is useless though because of the CAPS
> involement. "
>
> Why is that? Are they making up anything, are they
> holding back results? What makes you claim the
> mere mentioning of CAPS makes it invalid?

Because it was not representative of the FMES community. CAPS posted it here and sent it to their mailing list. Neen would have been as likely to respond as anyone of the 100 it was sent to, or anyone in FM for that matter. The "oh Rona could have just segregated out the original 100" does not forgive the CAPS zealots from making FME internal affairs everybody's business.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:19PM

So many replies ...

@best practice: Are you seriously arguing that kids who had been doing well at Oakton or Madison will all of a sudden become gangbangers with bad grades at South Lakes? This is about SLHS being under capacity. Your IB may, or may not, fill up the numbers.

@no real excuse: and your alternative is?? That's right, 'my school' is working, so to hell with the other schools.

@quantum: You're right -- litigation would simply cost several hundred grand with no real resolution. My school was, if anything, more White in the days I attended (class of 1993). My point is that those opposed to RD are doing so out of the perceived trashiness of kids in the SL pyramid, not out of race. I seriously doubt many of the anti-RD parents would want to send their kids to my high school.

Your reforms, I suspect, would probably improve the educational lot for the top 70-80% and leave the remainder even further behind. I would be interested to see links to districts that have 100% scrapped ESOL and actually succeeded (as opposed to succeeded for the top 40-50% and increased the dropout rate.) Also, what Lee Parent mentions is very true -- some parents *are* working 2-3 jobs simply to keep their kids from starving. I'm not sure they have the time to go to all the required stuff.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Internal Affairs ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:24PM

F*C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "The poll is useless though because of the CAPS
> > involement. "
> >
> > Why is that? Are they making up anything, are
> they
> > holding back results? What makes you claim the
> > mere mentioning of CAPS makes it invalid?
>
> Because it was not representative of the FMES
> community. CAPS posted it here and sent it to
> their mailing list. Neen would have been as
> likely to respond as anyone of the 100 it was sent
> to, or anyone in FM for that matter. The "oh Rona
> could have just segregated out the original 100"
> does not forgive the CAPS zealots from making FME
> internal affairs everybody's business.


"Internal affairs"? Are you kidding?

I think you should let this go. It's not helping anyone. But since you have incorrectly represented what happened, here for the record is a copy of CAPS explanation of what they did and the results. Note that they counted the stats both on everyone who answered and just those in Fox Mill's attendance area. The results were almost identical. This may be old news to many people now, but I guess some people want to keep chewing the same bone, so here they are...


"Survey Tabulation and Verification Process, and Statistical Results

To ensure that the Fox Mill Elementary PTA and the School Board received the broadest sample of the community possible, Ms. Ackerman’s survey was redistributed to nearly 800 email addresses, including the majority of PTA members at Fox Mill Elementary. FairfaxCAPS received copies of responses to Ms. Ackerman from 130 survey respondents. We then tabulated the answers of the entire 130 email address response pool. These are displayed in Figure 1 on the following page. To check the validity of the sample, FairfaxCAPS also sent email to all 130 respondents requesting verification information and for confirmation that the respondents lived in the Fox Mill attendance area. At the time of this release, 76 of the original 130 email addresses were in that subset. Statistics on the survey responses by the pool of 76 confirmed, FME attendance area email address respondents are contained in Figure 2. Both pools overwhelmingly said “yes” to Oakton, “no” to a redistricting to South Lakes and “no” to a division of the Fox Mill community. See the next page of this release for both charts."

Figure 1:
Fox Mill Elementary PTA Survey Results
(All 130 surveys sent to FME PTA and copied to FairfaxCAPS)
1. Would you be okay with your children going to Oakton High School? (Yes or No)Yes: 128 or 98.46%
No: 1 or 0.77% No
Answer: 1 or 0.77%
2. Would you be okay with your children going to South Lakes High School (Yes or No)
Yes: 15 or 11.54%
No: 114 or 87.69%
No Answer: 1 or 0.77%
3. Would you be okay with half of the Fox Mill ES students going to South Lakes and half of the Fox Mill ES students going to Oakton? (Yes or No)
Yes: 8 or 6.15%
No: 119 or 91.54%
No Answer: 3 or 2.31%

Figure 2:
Fox Mill Elementary PTA Survey Results
(Pool of 76 Confirmed, FME Attendance Area Responses sent to FME PTA and copied to FairfaxCAPS)
1. Would you be okay with your children going to Oakton High School? (Yes or No)
Yes: 76 or 100%
No: 0 or 0%
No Answer: 0 or 0%
2. Would you be okay with your children going to South Lakes High School (Yes or No)
Yes: 6 or 7.89%
No: 70 or 92.11%
No Answer: 0 or 0%
3. Would you be okay with half of the Fox Mill ES students going to South Lakes and half of the Fox Mill ES students going to Oakton? (Yes or No)
Yes: 5 or 6.58%
No: 69 or 90.79%
No Answer: 2 or 2.63%


Now, can we just accept this and let it go, already?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: RRRRRR ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:48PM

Formerhick - are you Liz Bradsher? I think you are. You sound just like her.


You sit there so much better than everyone else, you preach self sacrifice yet make none. If you were the class of 93 you probably do not have a 13 year old facing this change. You cant know what it is like to see your child hurting. You have no right to judge the people dealing with this. You are too young to be Liz Bradsher but you share her callus.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: best practice ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:48PM

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So many replies ...
>
> @best practice: Are you seriously arguing that
> kids who had been doing well at Oakton or Madison
> will all of a sudden become gangbangers with bad
> grades at South Lakes? This is about SLHS being
> under capacity. Your IB may, or may not, fill up
> the numbers.
>
> @no real excuse: and your alternative is?? That's
> right, 'my school' is working, so to hell with the
> other schools.
>
> @quantum: You're right -- litigation would simply
> cost several hundred grand with no real
> resolution. My school was, if anything, more White
> in the days I attended (class of 1993). My point
> is that those opposed to RD are doing so out of
> the perceived trashiness of kids in the SL
> pyramid, not out of race. I seriously doubt many
> of the anti-RD parents would want to send their
> kids to my high school.
>
> Your reforms, I suspect, would probably improve
> the educational lot for the top 70-80% and leave
> the remainder even further behind. I would be
> interested to see links to districts that have
> 100% scrapped ESOL and actually succeeded (as
> opposed to succeeded for the top 40-50% and
> increased the dropout rate.) Also, what Lee Parent
> mentions is very true -- some parents *are*
> working 2-3 jobs simply to keep their kids from
> starving. I'm not sure they have the time to go to
> all the required stuff.

Hang on - I'm not sure what practical action your suggesting...

all you seem to be saying is

- that the anti-RDers are evil for wanting to remain in schools and pyramids with demonstrated track records of performance, with which many have longstanding relationships

(the performance figures for Hughes and Hughes-student-Fiona's quotes about gangs there really would question why anyone would put up with being RD'd there against their will)

- that by some mysterious process, revealed only to the SB, moving kids from their current schools will fix the educational performance of the lowest performing 20-30% at the receiving schools (other than by diluting the figures)

For the vast majority of people, its not about any imagined 'trashiness of kids' (your framing is an offensive suggestion equivalent to uncle Stu's claims of racism and classism) its about raw educational performance. If the schools' performed properly, no-one would complain if all the kids had to go naked and paint themselves in mud

You don't rip kids from successful schools to cover up problem schools - you invest resources not kids futures - that's why we pay high taxes

So I really don't get your argument

This RD is doing nothing to solve the underlying issues - it just rips families from their existing schools and offers the opportunity to hide pervasive performance problems

Its just a bad plan, poorly executed for barely thought-through reasons

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: gsacookies ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:50PM

FYI I am on PTA was on Rhonna's email but not CAPS (probably because they did want to here what I had to say) Since evreyone else seems to be the expert on the majority people on our neightbor think I am going to add this

THE MAJORITY OF FOX MILL ESTATES AND SURROUND COMMUNITIES ARE OK WITH SOUTH LAKES

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:52PM

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do take exception to your position that an anti-RD lawsuit has no merit.

Quantum is right on this as I've already written many times

> The > ideas you describe were discussed prior to the vote, but gained no traction with > the political entities. Whether or not a lawsuit wins, it can help to bring
> light on the malfeasance of the SB. Having had long experience observing how
> changes to institutions occur, I have seen that in virtually all cases there
> needs to be a catalyst in the form of some perceived crisis. As long as the
> current SB thinks they were successful in dodging their true responsibilities
> (to improve the education they deliver) by the socio-economic relocation
> approach approved for SL, there is not a willing audience for your ideas.
>
> Something needs to put them into a receptive frame of mind. Maybe a lawsuit can > help to get their attention.

Consider, though, that when Hone made her motion to take $500,000 from legal fees line item to add AP to SL, Moon and Gibson were positively gloating about the SB track record of winning lawsuits.

If a lawsuit challenging the RD fails (as Quantum, I and most others familiar with the law in this area seem to expect), how much less responsive and more arrogant will the SB act in the future.

A successful recall, on the other hand, would really get their attention.

BTW, I really don't think both efforts can be funded at the same time. combined they would cost $500,000- 1,000,000. With the fall in home values caused by the sub-prime phenomenon, I doubt there's that kind of ready cash lying around.

Also, there will be no depositions of the SB members. A legislative body speaks only through the resolutions of the whole. Therefore, no individual SB member can speak for the whole in a depo. Local government attorneys have regularly been successful quashing depos for individual members of a local governmental body.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 02:58PM by Thomas More.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: evidence? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:53PM

gsacookies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FYI I am on PTA was on Rhonna's email but not CAPS
> (probably because they did want to here what I
> had to say) Since evreyone else seems to be the
> expert on the majority people on our neightbor
> think I am going to add this
>
> THE MAJORITY OF FOX MILL ESTATES AND SURROUND
> COMMUNITIES ARE OK WITH SOUTH LAKES


dude - show some evidence - the public testimony and town halls certainly didn't look that way

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: amenfromer hick ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:55PM

I agree with FORMER HICK IF the schools belong to all of us as NEEN says > i believe 95% taxpayers could give a darn where are kids have been redistricted to.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: GSAcookies ()
Date: March 07, 2008 02:57PM

evidence? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gsacookies Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FYI I am on PTA was on Rhonna's email but not
> CAPS
> > (probably because they did want to here what I
> > had to say) Since evreyone else seems to be the
> > expert on the majority people on our neightbor
> > think I am going to add this
> >
> > THE MAJORITY OF FOX MILL ESTATES AND SURROUND
> > COMMUNITIES ARE OK WITH SOUTH LAKES
>
>
> dude - show some evidence - the public testimony
> and town halls certainly didn't look that way


Evidence who on this website has shown any. The survey was bogus.....

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SPOILED ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:00PM

RRRRRR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Formerhick - are you Liz Bradsher? I think you
> are. You sound just like her.
>
>
> You sit there so much better than everyone else,
> you preach self sacrifice yet make none. If you
> were the class of 93 you probably do not have a 13
> year old facing this change. You cant know what
> it is like to see your child hurting. You have no
> right to judge the people dealing with this. You
> are too young to be Liz Bradsher but you share her
> callus.



While I understand this may be upsetting but it is called life I AM SURE THESE 13 YEAROLD WILL GET OVER IT , IF ONLY THEIR PARENTS COULD . i MEAN HONESLTY i DO NO THINK YOU CAN CHALK THIS UP AS THE END OF THE WORLD FOR A MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT.iF IT IS THEY HAVE HAD A PRETTY PAMPERED LIFE

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: evidence? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:01PM

GSAcookies Wrote:

>
> Evidence who on this website has shown any. The
> survey was bogus.....



those quoting from fcps and vdoe performance figures for a start...

but of course, it was all about buses...

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Why? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:03PM

Again where did you get that assumption? Has CAPS published any FME survey that's NOT coming from FME residents, as Mr. Castro's?

I am questioning why the *mentioning* of CAPS invalidate the data. If you have fact based evidence shows the invalidation, I'll buy it. But I can't seem to accept just because CAPS forwarded the survey as some poster said here, makes the survey unsound, if the results are indeed coming from FME communities.


F*C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "The poll is useless though because of the CAPS

> > involement. "
> >

> > Why is that? Are they making up anything, are
> they
> > holding back results? What makes you claim the
> > mere mentioning of CAPS makes it invalid?
>
> Because it was not representative of the FMES
> community. CAPS posted it here and sent it to
> their mailing list. Neen would have been as
> likely to respond as anyone of the 100 it was sent
> to, or anyone in FM for that matter. The "oh Rona
> could have just segregated out the original 100"
> does not forgive the CAPS zealots from making FME
> internal affairs everybody's business.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FU SPOILED ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:05PM

YOu dont know me or my son. You are condescending and self righteous.

I didnt say HIS LIFE WAS OVER. I said he is hurting and he is. This has been difficult on all of these kids.

you may choose to believe that feelings dont exist for them but I can assure you we wouldnt be this upset if they didnt.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: any old cr*p will do ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:07PM

SPOILED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> While I understand this may be upsetting but it
> is called life I AM SURE THESE 13 YEAROLD WILL GET
> OVER IT , IF ONLY THEIR PARENTS COULD . i MEAN
> HONESLTY i DO NO THINK YOU CAN CHALK THIS UP AS
> THE END OF THE WORLD FOR A MIDDLE SCHOOL
> STUDENT.iF IT IS THEY HAVE HAD A PRETTY PAMPERED
> LIFE


ahhhhh.... the persuasive argument that any old cr*p is okay....

the one that explains why the US is heading down the international rankings, why the $ is worth half what it was when the euro was launched and why we have no car industry anymore

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Why? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:20PM

Yes, this is what I get upset with. Underperformance is rewarded, hard working true middle class families are 'punished' for their children's achievement. Yet, no one really wants to sit down to help the so called FRL groups from the elementary school to teach the basics, not just all those nonsense curricular that don't prepare them adequately for future. Yes, expect the RD'd kids and parents spend their time and energy to improve SLHS otherwise they are called pampered, spoiled, elist, selfish, racist, whatever.

Grrr, sometimes I feel so frustrated.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:20PM

FU SPOILED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YOu dont know me or my son. You are condescending
> and self righteous.
>
> I didnt say HIS LIFE WAS OVER. I said he is
> hurting and he is. This has been difficult on all
> of these kids.
>
> you may choose to believe that feelings dont exist
> for them but I can assure you we wouldnt be this
> upset if they didnt.


I understand what you are going through. My kid is going to be 15 in the fall and she certainly has feelings and certainly understands what is going on around here. She made it clear that kids were kids and NOT resources. Now for many of those with younger kids in redistricted areas like FM, maybe they do not have a problem with going to South Lakes, but for those with 13-15 years old kids going in 9th grade or those with current older students with sibs going in 9th grade in high school that may be a problem for them, the first wave of students redistricted, that is the most difficult phase for those redistricted. For anybody to say oh get over it, it is just a school! Or all schools are the same or say oh your kid will be fine, they do not understand anybody affected by the RD is upset about it. For me it is simply programmatic issues (AP vs IB) and I do have a problem with fcps using FRM/ESOL percentages as a criteria for any redistricting.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: where will it all end? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:33PM

Why? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, this is what I get upset with.
> Underperformance is rewarded, hard working true
> middle class families are 'punished' for their
> children's achievement. Yet, no one really wants
> to sit down to help the so called FRL groups from
> the elementary school to teach the basics, not
> just all those nonsense curricular that don't
> prepare them adequately for future. Yes, expect
> the RD'd kids and parents spend their time and
> energy to improve SLHS otherwise they are called
> pampered, spoiled, elist, selfish, racist,
> whatever.
>
> Grrr, sometimes I feel so frustrated.


so you're suggesting that its not our kids jobs to do what we've paid fcps our taxes to do and cover up for their failings?

good god man - where will it all end - you'll be wanting accountability next

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Let's Talk ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:53PM

"Sweetie, I know it's hard to let go of the idea that you were going to Westfield, but remember that lots of your friends are going to different schools next year, like Chantilly and Herndon and private schools. There are so many ways to keep up with friends, and I'll make sure you can get to see them next year, no matter what school they go to. How about a cell phone with text messaging? And you'll be able to stay in Scouts with them and see them at church. Don't forget that your friends from right here in our neighborhood are going to South Lakes with you.

... I've heard that South Lakes is really a terrific school. It's one of the best in the country. It's smaller, so it's easier to make friends, and you'll be making all kinds of new friends, just like you did at Carson! You'll take electives with other kids who like the same things you do. In high school kids do a lot more stuff together and that's when a lot of close friendships really begin. Oh, and you know my friends Rita and Ron? My best friends? They were from college! So you can bet you'll be adding new friends your whole life.

I know you've been to Westfield to watch your brother/sister in games and performances. That won't stop, of course! Now they'll get to see you at South Lakes, and you'll be able share your different experiences.

I know it's scary going to a new school, but it can also be kind of exiting. Remember what it was like going to Carson? Let's go on over to South Lakes and take a look at it. I'll call up a couple of your friends from the neighborhood who are going, too, and maybe we can go together.

Now, why don't we take a look at the course offerings for next year and talk about what kinds of things you want to take ...."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Lee Parent ()
Date: March 07, 2008 03:59PM

I stumbled on a February 2007 Task Force Report for TJHS that was chaired by Janie Strauss. There was some discussion in the report to create another TJ or expand somehow. They concluded that (1) there isn't enough land at TJ to expand on their campus unless they give up athletic fields, (2) there is not enough vacant land in the county to house a new campus, and (3) they shot down a possibility of a co-partnership with GMU because GMU was unwilling to give up their land.

I wonder why, if they were considering a new TJ, they did not consider South Lakes??

I would be curious to know the answer if anyone knows.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Why? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 04:01PM

Great idea, the PTAs should send this home and request every obedient parents, or rather expected-to-be obedient parent to frame their talks. If they don't bulge, give them a list of labels -- and they should be thrilled they are only given labels...or maybe a little difficulty in pupil placing.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Perspective ()
Date: March 07, 2008 04:19PM

the blame cannot be cast on Reston parents for all the low performing schools.

Fox Mill and Floris have been next door to McNair and Dogwood for some time. Where is the pressure to improve McNair, where some of the kids have left to attend FM Elementary? And even if there was pressure, did it work or is the school still not making AYP?

The reality is that there are a number of parents who have pushed for improving the low performing schools in this area, including many Reston parents. But this Administration doesn't listen.





Why? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, this is what I get upset with.
> Underperformance is rewarded, hard working true
> middle class families are 'punished' for their
> children's achievement. Yet, no one really wants
> to sit down to help the so called FRL groups from
> the elementary school to teach the basics, not
> just all those nonsense curricular that don't
> prepare them adequately for future. Yes, expect
> the RD'd kids and parents spend their time and
> energy to improve SLHS otherwise they are called
> pampered, spoiled, elist, selfish, racist,
> whatever.
>
> Grrr, sometimes I feel so frustrated.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: March 07, 2008 04:23PM

Lee Parent - your sarcastic comment about in-depth knowledge of the curriculum makes me laugh. I am not an insider - I have never held a public sector job in my life and likely never well. I am however, contrary to some of the assertions here, fairly well educated (some would say exceedingly so) and have a very active interest in educational areas (a close relative was President of a School Board - and the high schools in that district are two of the best in then nation - and they are not magnet schools and they both earn 10 scores from great schools and do most all of the things I have mentioned).

In any event, I did concede (somehow these nuances escape) that parental involvement would be difficult to enforce - nevertheless - it is every bit worth the effort. And moreover, to the extent it fails, we would have a good set of data to really measure the value of parental involvement - my guess is that the disparity would be significant. Moreover, as brutal as this may sound, it may also give us further insight as to the significant externalities that obtain with respect to our failure to enforce immigration laws - which, although many would like to hide from such data, creation of the same would in my view have an overall salutary effect.

The fundamentals schools I mention in Pinellas adopt all sorts of strategies for parental involvement - including meeting at odd hours to accomodate working parents. Mere fatalism doesn't make sense - particularly in a crisis.

And once again, I don't see the lawsuit angle here working - unless plaintiffs know something that is not publicly available (always a possibility - and one would not expect any public posting of the same if they did). Keep in mind that when it comes to sovereign immunity and waivers thereof Virginia is one of the most conservative, if not the most conservative, state in the Union. The Commonwealth is simply a place that opens its gates to the courthouse rarely, and when it does, it accords a great deal of discretion to state actors. And frankly, the fact that there has been no suit filed as of yet (if one desires injunctive relief, the party better at least appear urgent) is beginning to speak to this reality. But as Thomas More can relate in his dealings with clients, there are some that will be very reluctant to see this perspective no matter what is explained.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP (advanced politicking) ()
Date: March 07, 2008 04:24PM

FM PTA member Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pupil placement Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TODAY STAFF WILL TELL THE BOARD HOW THEY PLAN
> ON
> > DEALING WITH PUPIL PLACEMENTS.
> >
> > WHAT IF THE BOARDS/STAFF'S GOAL IN THIS STUDY
> > WASNT JUST TO BALANCE SLHS BUT HERNDON AS WELL?
> >
> > IF WE ARE ALL SENT TO HERNDON, WOULDNT THAT
> > EXPLAIN HERNDON'S PTA'S ROLE IN THIS CHARADE?
> >
> > THIS WOULD ALSO EXPLAIN JANIES ROLE. HERE IS
> MY
> > BET... MADISON, CHANTILLY, OAKTON AND
> WESTFIELDS
> > WILL ALL CLOSE THEIR DOORS TO PUPIL PLACEMENTS
> FOR
> > 08/09 FORCING US TO HERNDON FOR AP.
>
>
> There are no AP slots open at Madison, and only
> like 17 open AP slots at Herndon. Those schools
> cannot accommodate all the folks from FM that want
> to pupil place out--and obviously Oakton now has
> space. Also, if they try to shut down the pupil
> placement process in this case, what about the SL
> boundary kids who have already pupil placed
> out...or all the kids who pupil place at different
> schools around thec county. They can't create
> different rules for this situation.


I am hearing the same thing about Madison all of a sudden being at/over capacity. Compared to three weeks ago, when I was informally advised that my child's pupil placement application had been reviewed and was slated for approval by Madison, and all that needed to be done was to send it through to the County for blessing by the County.

If anyone would like to wager, I will bet that at least 5 students will be approved for pupil placement at Madison (my child not being one of them). The system is probably corrupt at all levels.

Oakton supposedly has room to accept AP pupil placements, but it would not shock me if that story were to change in the next few days.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: March 07, 2008 04:30PM

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I stumbled on a February 2007 Task Force Report
> for TJHS that was chaired by Janie Strauss. There
> was some discussion in the report to create
> another TJ or expand somehow. They concluded that
> (1) there isn't enough land at TJ to expand on
> their campus unless they give up athletic fields,
> (2) there is not enough vacant land in the county
> to house a new campus, and (3) they shot down a
> possibility of a co-partnership with GMU because
> GMU was unwilling to give up their land.
>
> I wonder why, if they were considering a new TJ,
> they did not consider South Lakes??
>
> I would be curious to know the answer if anyone
> knows.

The latest I heard about TJ was that it may be expanding to or moving to the NOVA campus. South Lakes was not considered for reasons too obvious to repeat. And if it isn't obvious, please get educated about how schools are established and what their purpose is, not to mention what to do with 1,300+ students who would be displaced and told they'd be shipped eight or more miles (at least) elsewhere.

Governor's Schools are consistently misunderstood, especially on this thread. The Virginia Department of Education was authorized, by the General Assembly, to establish them, and they are overseen by the Virginia Department of Education, are jointly funded by the state (with extra funds) and by participating school divisions (TJ has kids from several counties), are managed by a regional governing board of reps from school boards of participating divisions, and require a lot of time to create and cooperation to run successfully. They are very expensive, and they must be justified.

If the Department of Education were to allocate funds for new Governor's Schools, my understanding is that there is a waiting list for schools in very under-served sections of the state, especially the southwest. To add one to this already-education-wealthy area would probably not go over well by the leaders who approve these schools.

Bear in mind that TJ itself is and has been extraordinarily controversial. (Those whose children go there or want to go there don't complain, of course.) The controversy tends to focus on the argument that, just as with GT centers, these programs and schools draw off top students and leave the general ed curriculum undernourished by the brightest kids. Another TJ would be a very hard sell and would probably fill more than 300 FU pages if it were proposed.

I believe the real conversation needs to be about how to enrich all the programs in general high schools so that exceptional kids can get what they need in their home schools. Many schools are looking into beefing up online/distance learning to meet some needs. Some are considering part-time classes, or after-school classes. The most critical need, however, remains that of recruiting qualified teachers. Even TJ faces this problem.

So I'd ask our taxpayers: Would you be willing to pay a few cents more in real estate taxes to fund the kinds of schools and programming you want in this county? So far, the answer seems to be "No." But there is still time to say "Yes" to the Board of Supervisors!

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Instruction/Govschools/

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Let's Talk ()
Date: March 07, 2008 04:49PM

Why? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great idea, the PTAs should send this home and
> request every obedient parents, or rather
> expected-to-be obedient parent to frame their
> talks. If they don't bulge, give them a list of
> labels -- and they should be thrilled they are
> only given labels...or maybe a little difficulty
> in pupil placing.

What do parents do, if they don't "frame?" How's this, instead:

"Sweetie, I know you've been looking forward to going to Westfield. But our elected officials are morons and they are forcing you into one of the worst schools in the county. We're going to try to make sure you stay in Westfield, even if we have to lie to keep you there.

You are absolutely right about how scary it is to go to a high school you've never seen and try to make new friends! I am SO with you on that! I'd have to make new friends, too, and there is no way I have time for that. And if you went to South Lakes, you'd never see your brother/sister again and wouldn't be able to play football or volleyball with him/her since you know you would have jumped right into Varsity at Westfield with your big sib.

I need to warn you that your dad and I might end up getting a divorce as we try to figure out whose job is more important so the other one could drive you everywhere. )But that might be a good thing, since one of us could rent a place near Westfield and you could live there!) Forget about your friends, too. They wouldn't find any time to want to stay friends if you went to that underachieving school. The worst part is that if you go to South Lakes, there is no way you could ever make As like you do now and get into a good college. It really sucks!

And I know how much you're impressed that we're so stressed about this, because we've tried to teach you how important it is to fight for the right to choose your own school.

Don't worry, though. We're suing. It is FAR more important for us to spend money to send you to Westfield than to save it for college! Education begins at 'home,' you know!"

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Why? ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:02PM

"And if it isn't obvious, please get educated about how schools are established and what their purpose is, not to mention what to do with 1,300+ students who would be displaced and told they'd be shipped eight or more miles (at least) elsewhere. "

Are you sure about that?

According to google map, within 8 miles from SLHS:
SLHS -- HHS 4.3 miles
SLHS -- Madison HS 5.7 miles
SLHS -- Oakton HS 7.4 miles

So in every direction, the SLHS kids can find a school within 8 miles.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fantasy Suit ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:02PM

Something tells me that CAPS has got nuttin' except fantasies about years of meetings between the SL PTSA and the school board, swarms of kids 'hiding in plain sight' in Reston, etc. I guess they will be reduced to the old 'pain and suffering' routine, if posts here are any indication.

As a taxpayer funding the county-wide school system, I will be plenty pissed if they move forward and waste my tax dollars on such an indulgent suit.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:08PM

Achievement wrote:

"The latest I heard about TJ was that it may be expanding to or moving to the NOVA campus. South Lakes was not considered for reasons too obvious to repeat. And if it isn't obvious, please get educated about how schools are established and what their purpose is, not to mention what to do with 1,300+ students who would be displaced and told they'd be shipped eight or more miles (at least) elsewhere."

Sounds like the SL community did not want to displace their kids 8 miles elsewhere. Look at the Floris and Navy communities, they have to commute around 8 miles. SL could have very well been given a magnet (academy) like the IB program and still retained the base students there. To rip hundreds of families in this fashion, it is like telling us "it is ok to be disrupted and that it will be fine". If anything redistricting should start in elementary schools not right at the high school level.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SBS ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:09PM

gsacookies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FYI I am on PTA was on Rhonna's email but not CAPS
> (probably because they did want to here what I
> had to say) Since evreyone else seems to be the
> expert on the majority people on our neightbor
> think I am going to add this
>
> THE MAJORITY OF FOX MILL ESTATES AND SURROUND
> COMMUNITIES ARE OK WITH SOUTH LAKES

That is either ignorant non-sense, or an outright lie.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:10PM

Why? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "And if it isn't obvious, please get educated
> about how schools are established and what their
> purpose is, not to mention what to do with 1,300+
> students who would be displaced and told they'd be
> shipped eight or more miles (at least) elsewhere.
> "
>
> Are you sure about that?
>
> According to google map, within 8 miles from
> SLHS:
> SLHS -- HHS 4.3 miles
> SLHS -- Madison HS 5.7 miles
> SLHS -- Oakton HS 7.4 miles
>
> So in every direction, the SLHS kids can find a
> school within 8 miles.

Madison: Overcrowded already. HHS: At capacity. Beside the point anyway; this is a fruitless hypothetical and not worth any time or thought. You avoided the issue of how current schools can meet exceptional needs. I hope others take this issue up. (I've been backing out of this thread, checking in now and then. I'm afraid constructive discussion here is hopeless.)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: youGotToBeKidding ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:14PM

As a parent just telling your kid to go to SL and not do any AP courses is irresponsible. If there was full parity of course offering at SL in terms of AP then it would be a different story.

Let's Talk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Sweetie, I know it's hard to let go of the idea
> that you were going to Westfield, but remember
> that lots of your friends are going to different
> schools next year, like Chantilly and Herndon and
> private schools. There are so many ways to keep up
> with friends, and I'll make sure you can get to
> see them next year, no matter what school they go
> to. How about a cell phone with text messaging?
> And you'll be able to stay in Scouts with them and
> see them at church. Don't forget that your friends
> from right here in our neighborhood are going to
> South Lakes with you.
>
> ... I've heard that South Lakes is really a
> terrific school. It's one of the best in the
> country. It's smaller, so it's easier to make
> friends, and you'll be making all kinds of new
> friends, just like you did at Carson! You'll take
> electives with other kids who like the same things
> you do. In high school kids do a lot more stuff
> together and that's when a lot of close
> friendships really begin. Oh, and you know my
> friends Rita and Ron? My best friends? They were
> from college! So you can bet you'll be adding new
> friends your whole life.
>
> I know you've been to Westfield to watch your
> brother/sister in games and performances. That
> won't stop, of course! Now they'll get to see you
> at South Lakes, and you'll be able share your
> different experiences.
>
> I know it's scary going to a new school, but it
> can also be kind of exiting. Remember what it was
> like going to Carson? Let's go on over to South
> Lakes and take a look at it. I'll call up a couple
> of your friends from the neighborhood who are
> going, too, and maybe we can go together.
>
> Now, why don't we take a look at the course
> offerings for next year and talk about what kinds
> of things you want to take ...."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Rhett Butler ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:20PM

youGotToBeKidding Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a parent just telling your kid to go to SL and
> not do any AP courses is irresponsible.


yup - that's what the SB's telling you to do

It's the SB's Rhett Butler moment : "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Internal Affairs ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:31PM

GSAcookies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> evidence? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > gsacookies Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > FYI I am on PTA was on Rhonna's email but not
> > CAPS
> > > (probably because they did want to here what
> I
> > > had to say) Since evreyone else seems to be
> the
> > > expert on the majority people on our
> neightbor
> > > think I am going to add this
> > >
> > > THE MAJORITY OF FOX MILL ESTATES AND SURROUND
> > > COMMUNITIES ARE OK WITH SOUTH LAKES
> >
> >
> > dude - show some evidence - the public
> testimony
> > and town halls certainly didn't look that way
>
>
> Evidence who on this website has shown any. The
> survey was bogus.....


Dear Fox Mill Elementary PTA Member/GSACookies,

The current Fox Mill Elementary PTA President's first name is spelled Rona, not Rhonna.

If you were on the original survey list and not the CAPS list, it is because CAPS did not have your email address, not because they didn't want your opinion. If your "vote" was not included in the CAPS results, it is because you did not provide CAPS with a copy. If noone knows the votes of those, like yourself, who only gave answers to Rona, instead of both to Rona and CAPS, it is because the Fox Mill PTA executive committee decided not to publish them. CAPS hasn't been hiding information. Just the opposite.

If there are about 460 families in Fox Mill Elementary and 76 people in the Fox Mill attendance area responded and then confirmed their responses, as CAPS said in their release, that means about 17% responded. Not bad for any survey.

If Rona counted all those respondents which were sent to her and copied to CAPS (130) among her total (159), even IF ALL the additional 29 responses CAPS didn't receive said "No" to Oakton and "Yes" to South Lakes, the totals on the PTA survey would look like this:

Question 1: Yes to Oakton: 80.5%
Question 2: Yes to South Lakes: 28.3%

Again, that is assuming that ALL the additional responses were unanimously for dropping Oakton and moving to South Lakes. Not an impossible result. But statistically pretty unlikely.

By any measure, that is a landslide in favor of keeping Oakton as Fox Mill's high school.

But rather than guessing about this, wouldn't it have been easier--assuming public officials and community leaders really cared what the people think--if EVERYONE had been surveyed? Or at least if the FULL results of the surveys conducted were released to the community?

But NO, they couldn't possibly do that! Especially not through an official survey of a neutral organization like a PTA!

Just imagine if every PTA surveyed all its members. If every HOA did as well. And if the Post or Connection or Times had conducted an official poll. What if they all showed that 75% -80% of the people said they wanted to keep their existing pyramids? What then? Would we all still say, the school board knows what's best for everyone? They know better than 4 out of 5 parents, homeowners, residents, kids. Citizens all. Would they continue to insult them all with nasty insinuations and challenge their sincerity? Would they continue to say, we few know more than all of you?

Perhaps they should just post the sign over our public buildings now: "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"?

Since neither the school board nor the Fox Mill PTA executive committee apparently care about what their constituents think, maybe we should just let it go...

Until election time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: gscoookies ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:31PM

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gsacookies Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FYI I am on PTA was on Rhonna's email but not
> CAPS
> > (probably because they did want to here what I
> > had to say) Since evreyone else seems to be the
> > expert on the majority people on our neightbor
> > think I am going to add this
> >
> > THE MAJORITY OF FOX MILL ESTATES AND SURROUND
> > COMMUNITIES ARE OK WITH SOUTH LAKES
>
> That is either ignorant non-sense, or an outright
> lie.



Why is this any diffrent then the 100's of other emails talking about what the community wants .This whole site is a rediculous lie

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:39PM

FU SPOILED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YOu dont know me or my son. You are condescending
> and self righteous.
>
> I didnt say HIS LIFE WAS OVER. I said he is
> hurting and he is. This has been difficult on all
> of these kids.
>
> you may choose to believe that feelings dont exist
> for them but I can assure you we wouldnt be this
> upset if they didnt.

The school board doesn't care about you, or your child. They have much more important things to worry about, (just as Mr. Center said) like making another speech, going to another meeting, hasseling the board of supervisors yet again for more money so that they are able to hire more administrators, planning yet another retreat someplace nice where they can eat, drink, relax, and have more meetings. They're busy people, doing the Lord's work, and going to meetings, for all these ungrateful peons in Fairfax county. They don't have time to worry and fret over students. Sheeze. Think about their feelings for once. They're busy people!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 05:59PM

@RRRRRR: If the worst thing that can happen to a kid is going to Hughes, then they have truly led a nice life. I suspect your, and other parents', pain would be less if it were a case of going from the Madison to the Oakton or Langley pyramids.

My middle school was 6-8 when I attended, it is now a 6-7 middle and a 8-9 junior high:
Middle: 5 of 10, 29% free lunch, 88% white
Junior high: 4 of 10, 25% free lunch, 89% white
Hughes: 5 of 10, 31% free lunch, 44% white/20% black/19% hispanic/11% Asian

Again, being the product of a school system that makes the SL pyramid look stellar, I just can't generate that much sympathy for the affected parents, who are threatening to take their kids out before even spending ONE DAY in the classroom. Is SL really on a level with Eastern, Anacostia, etc.?

@best practice: OK, so parents don't want to risk their kids getting a substandard education in the SL pyramid. It just seems that some of the parents have spent more of their time bashing SL than praising their current schools, but that's neither here nor there.

I believe the school board's proposal is the best of a bad lot.

A magnet school may, or may not work, given the quality of most general enrollment schools and the presence of TJ. After that, ideas are pretty thin from the anti-RD crowd.

@Why?: "hard working true middle class families are 'punished' for their children's achievement."

This is Fairfax County. Most of the affected people are in the upper 20% of incomes/wealth/etc. Hell, even our illegals are making the nationwide median in terms of income.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: F*C ()
Date: March 07, 2008 06:26PM

Internal Affairs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Fox Mill Elementary PTA Member/GSACookies,
>
> The current Fox Mill Elementary PTA President's
> first name is spelled Rona, not Rhonna.
>
> If you were on the original survey list and not
> the CAPS list, it is because CAPS did not have
> your email address, not because they didn't want
> your opinion. If your "vote" was not included in
> the CAPS results, it is because you did not
> provide CAPS with a copy. If noone knows the
> votes of those, like yourself, who only gave
> answers to Rona, instead of both to Rona and CAPS,
> it is because the Fox Mill PTA executive committee
> decided not to publish them. CAPS hasn't been
> hiding information. Just the opposite.

The reason the CAPS survey is bogus it because everyone knows it's a partisan interest group. So anyone who doesn't support your cause, or feels like they are being manipulated for your cause, is unlikly to reply despite the super-duper efforts to ensure that respondents are who they say they are and live where they say they do. Sorry you put so much effort into an easily discredit endeavor, I hope you don't repeat that mistake through litigation.

Rona stated in Tuesday take home packages that she never released the results of her survey so anyone claiming to know the results is wrong. Frankly, I think her survey is just as bogus as the CAPS one. A half day on a Monday to send, receive and tabulate the rusults? I don't think so. Whatever, it is past time to let this whole sublot die.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Editorial ()
Date: March 07, 2008 06:37PM

The following editorial was printed in the Great Falls/Vienna/McLean/Oakton Sun Gazette:

http://www.sungazette.net/articles/2008/03/07/fairfax/opinion/bcmt794.txt

"Another local newspaper, editorializing against plans by the School Board to redistrict high school boundaries in the western half of the county, last week said the school system “demonstrated an unacceptable level of institutional arrogance toward parents and taxpayers” during the process.

Have they not been paying attention? That has been the way the school system has operated for the past 50 years. Nothing new there.

But the fact is, both the superintendent and the School Board have an obligation to represent the community as a whole, not merely the most vocal pockets. And, in last week's 10-2 vote in support of boundary changes, the board looked at the big picture, staring down their critics.

It is, frankly, unacceptable to allow some schools to sit with hundreds of empty desks, as has been the case with South Lakes High School in Reston. The proposal OK'd by the School Board shifts boundaries so that future students - not current ones - will go to different high schools, many of them to South Lakes.

If there is anything we fault the school chieftains for, it is that Langley High School was left out of the redistricting discussion.

We surmise that, despite solemn oaths to the contrary, school officials simply didn't want Langley parents raising hell, on top of all the others who were complaining.

Bottom line? Boundary changes have been around forever in Fairfax County, and likely will continue to be around.

Those who moan and whine about it don't understand this history, and, too often, come across as NIMBYs, perfectly happy to see everyone else's children displaced, but not their own.

One final note, particularly to those who have discussed suing the school system to overturn the decision: knock it off.

Such suits won't work, and will serve to only further polarize the situation, not bring a semblance of closure to the issue.

It's time to move forward."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Internal Affairs ()
Date: March 07, 2008 06:51PM

F*C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Internal Affairs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dear Fox Mill Elementary PTA Member/GSACookies,
> >
> > The current Fox Mill Elementary PTA President's
> > first name is spelled Rona, not Rhonna.
> >
> > If you were on the original survey list and not
> > the CAPS list, it is because CAPS did not have
> > your email address, not because they didn't
> want
> > your opinion. If your "vote" was not included
> in
> > the CAPS results, it is because you did not
> > provide CAPS with a copy. If noone knows the
> > votes of those, like yourself, who only gave
> > answers to Rona, instead of both to Rona and
> CAPS,
> > it is because the Fox Mill PTA executive
> committee
> > decided not to publish them. CAPS hasn't been
> > hiding information. Just the opposite.
>
> The reason the CAPS survey is bogus it because
> everyone knows it's a partisan interest group. So
> anyone who doesn't support your cause, or feels
> like they are being manipulated for your cause, is
> unlikly to reply despite the super-duper efforts
> to ensure that respondents are who they say they
> are and live where they say they do. Sorry you
> put so much effort into an easily discredit
> endeavor, I hope you don't repeat that mistake
> through litigation.
>
> Rona stated in Tuesday take home packages that she
> never released the results of her survey so anyone
> claiming to know the results is wrong. Frankly, I
> think her survey is just as bogus as the CAPS one.
> A half day on a Monday to send, receive and
> tabulate the rusults? I don't think so.
> Whatever, it is past time to let this whole sublot
> die.

First, many of us read that Tuesday packet note. It was her second such communication paid for with PTA membership dues and distributed with our children's homework in an official school channel, unlike anything CAPS or any other community group has produced. And the first thing we noted was that she AGAIN did not provide statistics on how people answered her first two questions. She didn't say how the people in her 100 member polling group answered them OR how all the 159 people answered it. If she had, CAPS probably wouldn't have put out a statement and we we wouldn't be talking about this.

Second, you can say any poll is bogus or that polls aren't important. You can operate on your own experience or what you're trusted advisors tell you. That's what President Bush has been doing for eight years now. And it is what Stu Gibson is channeling when he says that truth isn't revealed with a show of hands. So, how did that turn out? Well, we've been fighting a nasty war abroad for years--and now in our own community over redistricting for several months--because a few "leaders" thought they knew better than the people.

For my part, I'd rather listen to THE PEOPLE than any one "leader" claiming to speak for them but without the benefit of listening to them.

Now, I'll make you a deal: You stop bringing this up and stop insulting the intelligence and character of everyone who doesn't agree with you--which is many, many people throughout the County--and we'll let it rest.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SL Favorite Argument ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:00PM

Internal Affairs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Second, you can say any poll is bogus or that
> polls aren't important. You can operate on your
> own experience or what you're trusted advisors
> tell you. That's what President Bush has been
> doing for eight years now. And it is what Stu
> Gibson is channeling when he says that truth isn't
> revealed with a show of hands. So, how did that
> turn out? Well, we've been fighting a nasty war
> abroad for years--and now in our own community
> over redistricting for several months--because a
> few "leaders" thought they knew better than the
> people.
>>

South Lakes favorite argument - "Your statistics are incorrect because ......"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Editorialism ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:03PM

Editorial Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The following editorial was printed in the Great
> Falls/Vienna/McLean/Oakton Sun Gazette:
>
> http://www.sungazette.net/articles/2008/03/07/fair
> fax/opinion/bcmt794.txt
>
> "Another local newspaper, editorializing against
> plans by the School Board to redistrict high
> school boundaries in the western half of the
> county, last week said the school system
> “demonstrated an unacceptable level of
> institutional arrogance toward parents and
> taxpayers” during the process.
>
> Have they not been paying attention? That has been
> the way the school system has operated for the
> past 50 years. Nothing new there.
>
> But the fact is, both the superintendent and the
> School Board have an obligation to represent the
> community as a whole, not merely the most vocal
> pockets. And, in last week's 10-2 vote in support
> of boundary changes, the board looked at the big
> picture, staring down their critics.
>
> It is, frankly, unacceptable to allow some schools
> to sit with hundreds of empty desks, as has been
> the case with South Lakes High School in Reston.
> The proposal OK'd by the School Board shifts
> boundaries so that future students - not current
> ones - will go to different high schools, many of
> them to South Lakes.
>
> If there is anything we fault the school
> chieftains for, it is that Langley High School was
> left out of the redistricting discussion.
>
> We surmise that, despite solemn oaths to the
> contrary, school officials simply didn't want
> Langley parents raising hell, on top of all the
> others who were complaining.
>
> Bottom line? Boundary changes have been around
> forever in Fairfax County, and likely will
> continue to be around.
>
> Those who moan and whine about it don't understand
> this history, and, too often, come across as
> NIMBYs, perfectly happy to see everyone else's
> children displaced, but not their own.
>
> One final note, particularly to those who have
> discussed suing the school system to overturn the
> decision: knock it off.
>
> Such suits won't work, and will serve to only
> further polarize the situation, not bring a
> semblance of closure to the issue.
>
> It's time to move forward."


Interesting...

Did you see the motto of that paper right underneath its banner: "Reaching the most affluent audience in the Washington D.C. metro area." I suspect that most of us who have been fighting RD don't fall into that category. Maybe that's why we didn't read the editorial. I guess we just aren't as smart about trusting public officials as all you rich folks.

We were reading this editorial instead: http://www.examiner.com/a-1247188~Junk_the_Fairfax_schools_gerrymander.html

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:15PM

Interesting editorials...much to commend in each, even though there are quibbles (e.g. many schools have empty seats now...moving kids around doesn't reduce the number of empty seats in the school system as a whole...)

The Examiner raised an interesting question about how close SLHS was to missing NCLB benchmarks, which would allow students to then request placement at other schools. Does anybody have the facts about this? Stu would sell his own plow-story-telling father before he'd let that happen to South Lakes.

(I thought it was an interesting choice of story. Why doesn't the guy just get his own plow, instead of asking for his neighbor's kids erm plow?)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: pythonesque ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:18PM

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> My middle school was 6-8 when I attended, it is
> now a 6-7 middle and a 8-9 junior high:
> Middle: 5 of 10, 29% free lunch, 88% white
> Junior high: 4 of 10, 25% free lunch, 89% white
> Hughes: 5 of 10, 31% free lunch, 44% white/20%
> black/19% hispanic/11% Asian
>

This has never been about demographics - why do the proRD crowd always claim it is?

its about performance and programs and how you build on success and fix failure

the pythonesque 'my school was so bad ...' is neither here nor there, many of us can play the 'we were so poor...' game - its irrelevant



>
> I believe the school board's proposal is the best
> of a bad lot.
>

There was no 'lot' - this is how they framed the problem and this is the result they got - they never considered programmatic or performance options


> A magnet school may, or may not work, given the
> quality of most general enrollment schools and the
> presence of TJ. After that, ideas are pretty thin
> from the anti-RD crowd.
>

But surely worth a try - if IB can't sustain a magnet, why force it on unwilling families?



>
>
> This is Fairfax County. Most of the affected
> people are in the upper 20% of incomes/wealth/etc.
> Hell, even our illegals are making the nationwide
> median in terms of income.

certainly not in county terms - most of these areas are pretty modest - McNair is certainly not in the top 20% of the county. If you're talking about nationally, you have to take cost of living into account. I know we both have to work to pay the mortgage and we mow our own grass, such as it is.

if you're saying that this is a globally competitive high skill workforce commanding high skill wages rather than a dying coal mining area, okay, but why does that mean that we shouldn't expect services of the highest quality - we certainly pay the taxes for them!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy parent ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:22PM

I don't need to remind anyone here that the Langley folks have a huge incentive for this RD to work and to avoid scrutiny of why Langley was excluded from the scope of the study.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Pupil placement.
Posted by: Get Real ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:40PM

There are no GPA requirements to pupil place at Madison.

So much hysteria.

This group is really out of control.

Counting credits of AP vs. IB is a red herring. . .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:41PM

pythonesque Wrote:
> This has never been about demographics - why do
> the proRD crowd always claim it is?

I've been saying all along it is NOT about race. My point is that I doubt many of the anti-RD parents would want to attend my school, which was pretty darn white.

It is more about fear that their kids will be placed in a school that is failing. There may be a few parents that are motivated by fear of attending a brown school, but I don't attribute it to 90-95% of the parents complaining about RD'ing.

> its about performance and programs and how you
> build on success and fix failure

OK. All I've seen is more of the 'back to basics' and 'get parents invovled' rhetoric, which I fear will leave the bottom 20-30% of students in the dust. On the other hand the other 70-80% will probably excel.

> the pythonesque 'my school was so bad ...' is
> neither here nor there, many of us can play the
> 'we were so poor...' game - its irrelevant

I portray my school to indicate (1) that South Lakes ain't really that bad and (2) that my outrage over my kids having to attend South Lakes would be muted, seeing as it's still better than the place I went to school. My wife, a product of West Springfield, may have a different opinion.

> There was no 'lot' - this is how they framed the
> problem and this is the result they got - they
> never considered programmatic or performance
> options

Such as...

> But surely worth a try - if IB can't sustain a
> magnet, why force it on unwilling families?

IB is probably the strongest case the anti-RD folks have. Otherwise I am just seeing NIMBY fears from the anti-RD crowd.

> certainly not in county terms - most of these
> areas are pretty modest - McNair is certainly not
> in the top 20% of the county. If you're talking
> about nationally, you have to take cost of living
> into account. I know we both have to work to pay
> the mortgage and we mow our own grass, such as it
> is.

Actually I'd rather just pay some guy $50 or so a month to mow my yard, but your point is well-taken.

> if you're saying that this is a globally
> competitive high skill workforce commanding high
> skill wages rather than a dying coal mining area,
> okay, but why does that mean that we shouldn't
> expect services of the highest quality - we
> certainly pay the taxes for them!

OK.

BTW, to the South Lakes crowd: are there any defenses of IB as opposed to AP? Why should I want my kid taking IB classes instead of AP classes, when IB is not accepted for college credit and AP is?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Pupil placement.
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: March 07, 2008 07:44PM

Get Real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are no GPA requirements to pupil place at
> Madison.
>
> So much hysteria.
>
> This group is really out of control.
>
> Counting credits of AP vs. IB is a red herring. .

Why is AP vs IB a red herring? One can translate into college credit, the other cannot/does not. In fact, it is probably the strongest argument the anti-RD folks have.

Options: ReplyQuote
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