SLHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 5) Likewise, Langley is a separate issue from
> SLHS. Moroever, including Langley in the
> decisionmaking process would have made the process
> even more unwieldy and would have been somewhat
> gratuitous because it is so far SLHS - if
> anything, the Langley students south of route and
> west of Reston Parkway should go to HHS, but HHS
> is not the primary focus of the boundary study -
> SLHS is.
>
No it's not. If Langley had been included as it ought to have been, the Reston High School alternative(s) could have been much more rational than Alternative 4 was. Aldrin alone or with Armstrong could have been moved from Herndon with western Langley replacing it/them. Would have allowed not expanding Langley and gotten rid of the long bus rides for western Langley kids.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My comment was intended to point out that the
> volunteering issue (and I was responding to a SL
> parent who said that the stay-at-home parents and
> self-employed did most or nearly all of the
> volunteering at SL) is another reason that we who
> have experienced Oakton or Westfield prefer to
> stay there. It may seem like a minor thing, but if
> SL doesn't have the same infrastructure as the
> other schools, then either the kids get less or
> the burden on willing parents is greater.

I responded to your condescending post which you apparently chose to ignore.

I'll try again and use small words.

Unlike Oakton and Langley, a small percentage of SL kids have cars to drive to school. Therefore they cannot drive home for a post school, pre-game meal.

Unlike those other schools, many SL parents work two jobs to provide for their family and are unavailable to cook and feed a sports team at 5 pm. Or they are just getting out of work at that hour.

Unlike those other schools, SL has a small number of stay at home moms waiting and wanting to do something for their only child's school.

All of the foregoing is a product of 33% FRM.

> What did I say that was negative about SL?

That SL didn't have its volunteers arrangements in place.

> I was just reacting to something negative that a SL parent
> said about their own school, which is that the
> same few parents do most of the work.

It wasn't negative. It was an attempt to get you to understand the challenges that SL faces and meets with volunteer help all the time because it has a disproportionate share of the FCPS' FRM population.

Instead of expressing empathy for kids scrounging for scraps from a coach's left over meals, you demonstrate that you're totally heartlessness by using the information to attack SL and its volunteers.

Shame on you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2008 10:27PM by Thomas More.

WestfieldDad - that it is the best option I've heard so far.

Thomas - why not pack an extra lunch?

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't believe it was planned at all. McNair
> east of Centreville was all zoned
> office/commercial. After getting in the roads and
> the hideous shopping center, the developer got hit
> hard by the early 90s real estate crash (for the
> younger set, this isn't the first time... That
> crash hit both commercial and residential, but
> commercial much harder.) To semi-bail out the
> developer, Fairfax got the area rezoned to allow
> high density residential on most of the land.

McNair was always going to be high density residential. It's Woodland Park that was switched from commercial to residential between Sunrise and the Toll Road.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe it was planned at all. McNair
> east of Centreville was all zoned
> office/commercial. After getting in the roads and
> the hideous shopping center, the developer got hit
> hard by the early 90s real estate crash (for the
> younger set, this isn't the first time... That
> crash hit both commercial and residential, but
> commercial much harder.) To semi-bail out the
> developer, Fairfax got the area rezoned to allow
> high density residential on most of the land.

Interesting history, WestfieldDad. Well, that high density immediately to the west of McNair ES is apartment, senior citizen care, and two bedroom condos. The apartment complex adjacent to the school is subsidized low-income, from which roughly 20 children feed Westfield HS. All other high schoolers from McNair are middle income, as they come from the decent sized townhouses east of the school and from the west side of Centerville Rd., and rather expensive apartments south of Coppermine Rd.

Coming from the subsidized housing, I can say that there is almost no crime whatsoever here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to be an anomoly in Herndon/Reston. Why is that?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas - why not pack an extra lunch?

And keep it refrigerated where for 10 hours?

Remember these are the kids we're getting to use the lunch card, who weren't eating at lunch and the lunch card doesn't work after school because the cafeteria is closed.

FY2009 Budget
Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent Jack D. Dale has proposed a school system budget of $2.3 billion for FY 2009 that reflects cuts of $45.6 million and approximately 521 positions throughout FCPS and, for the second consecutive year, includes no new programs. The FY 2009 proposed budget represents a 3.3 percent increase over the FY 2008 approved budget.

How do you propose a budget to eliminate 521 positions and the SB is proposing to run double buses through the same neighborhoods to diferent schools for the next three years? Wouldn't the no new programs part apply to SL as well? If there are no new programs that would indicate no AP at SL correct? How can the Superintendent and the SB be putting out such different messages? Assuming this goes through I would think there should be a line item in the 09 budget to address the additional buses, drivers, transportation costs, additional teachers at SL?

Thomas - peanut butter and jelly keeps indefinitely, so does fruit and nuts and bread..

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't believe it was planned at all. McNair
> > east of Centreville was all zoned
> > office/commercial. After getting in the roads
> and
> > the hideous shopping center, the developer got
> hit
> > hard by the early 90s real estate crash (for
> the
> > younger set, this isn't the first time... That
> > crash hit both commercial and residential, but
> > commercial much harder.) To semi-bail out the
> > developer, Fairfax got the area rezoned to
> allow
> > high density residential on most of the land.
>
> Interesting history, WestfieldDad. Well, that high
> density immediately to the west of McNair ES is
> apartment, senior citizen care, and two bedroom
> condos. The apartment complex adjacent to the
> school is subsidized low-income, from which
> roughly 20 children feed Westfield HS. All other
> high schoolers from McNair are middle income, as
> they come from the decent sized townhouses east of
> the school and from the west side of Centerville
> Rd., and rather expensive apartments south of
> Coppermine Rd.
>

Agreed. The townhouses are nice and, with the real estate run up, pretty expensive as well. For new housing in western Fairfax, McNair area townhouses are very reasonable options as middle class and 1st time upper middle buyers.

>
> Coming from the subsidized housing, I can say that
> there is almost no crime whatsoever here. Correct
> me if I'm wrong, but that seems to be an anomoly
> in Herndon/Reston. Why is that?

Most of that part of McNair is middle class and 1st time upper middle buyers. (+ Great Oak at top end.) There's also high end apartments/condos in the Woodland Park area. The areas in Herndon and Reston with more crime are longer term denser low income areas (e.g. Dogwood east of Fairfax County Parkway or Herndon Alabama area.)

There are two Westfield HS busstops at my complex, from which around 10 children each board the bus. Is it these children (one of mine included) that SLHS is afraid of? LOL

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I don't believe it was planned at all. McNair
> > east of Centreville was all zoned
> > office/commercial. After getting in the roads
> and
> > the hideous shopping center, the developer got
> hit
> > hard by the early 90s real estate crash (for
> the
> > younger set, this isn't the first time... That
> > crash hit both commercial and residential, but
> > commercial much harder.) To semi-bail out the
> > developer, Fairfax got the area rezoned to
> allow
> > high density residential on most of the land.
>
> McNair was always going to be high density
> residential. It's Woodland Park that was switched
> from commercial to residential between Sunrise and
> the Toll Road.

Yes, you are right. Thanks.

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen,
> How about Storck and his boundaries
>
> How about Kory and Glasgow
>
> He is even allegedly sticking it to Bradsher and
> her middle school
>
> And he cemented his reputation when he macacced on
> Hone and Raney

Kaye Kory got the bigger school at Glasgow that she wanted. Did Stu vote against that?

What boundary change did Storck propose that Stu opposed? What was the final vote on his boundary change? I missed that one.

Stu supported Bradsher when she wasn't a republican and wasn't on the school board. Now, being a republican, Stu will have a VERY hard time supporting her even though she supported his re election, even giving him a big check. Stu is nothing if not VERY partisan. If Bradsher votes for Stu's redistricting, we can assume that he has agreed to support her middle school. If she votes against him, we'll know why.

I still don't see 7 votes against Stu. Even assuming you are correct, and Storck, Bradsher, Raney and Hone, vote against him. We can even throw in Janie, so that she can appear to care about her Madison Island folks. Who are the other two against him? I don't see Tessie voting against him because she knows the rules of not messing in other member's districts. Moon will vote with Stu, so will Phil. Kaye Kory? I don't see her voting against him, but she does like to stir the pot and have fun. Even with her, that's still only 6 votes. Those who oppose redistricting need 7. They won't get them, imho.

Final vote, 10-2 at the minimum, 10-4, at the max.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas - peanut butter and jelly keeps
> indefinitely, so does fruit and nuts and bread..

What teenage male gets by on that. What high school athlete gets by on that before a game, except, maybe, a wrestler trying to make weight. These kids were scrounging scraps from a coach's left overs.

My teenage boys are always hungry. They have access to unlimited amounts of food and they're still skinny. Unlike their father.

Are you as heartless as our friend, foxmill/carson/oakton?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kaye Kory got the bigger school at Glasgow that
> she wanted. Did Stu vote against that?
>
> What boundary change did Storck propose that Stu
> opposed? What was the final vote on his boundary
> change? I missed that one.
>
> Stu supported Bradsher when she wasn't a
> republican and wasn't on the school board. Now,
> being a republican, Stu will have a VERY hard time
> supporting her even though she supported his re
> election, even giving him a big check. Stu is
> nothing if not VERY partisan. If Bradsher votes
> for Stu's redistricting, we can assume that he has
> agreed to support her middle school. If she votes
> against him, we'll know why.
>
> I still don't see 7 votes against Stu. Even
> assuming you are correct, and Storck, Bradsher,
> Raney and Hone, vote against him. We can even
> throw in Janie, so that she can appear to care
> about her Madison Island folks. Who are the other
> two against him? I don't see Tessie voting
> against him because she knows the rules of not
> messing in other member's districts. Moon will
> vote with Stu, so will Phil. Kaye Kory? I don't
> see her voting against him, but she does like to
> stir the pot and have fun. Even with her, that's
> still only 6 votes. Those who oppose
> redistricting need 7. They won't get them, imho.
>
> Final vote, 10-2 at the minimum, 10-4, at the max.


Opponents only need 6 votes. A motion fails on a tie. The status quo continues on a tie.

Stuy needs 7 to affect a change.

I am fearfull and elitist. I want my child to go to the best school "my taxes" can buy him. That is why I bought my house where I did and one reason I spend my money and time to maintain and improve my home. I am fearful that my interests are not being represented in this democratic republic. No one has talked to my wife or I about this issue. We are tax payers. We have offspring. We are citizens.

We are being told we are going to be giving up more than we are getting. Are we to do nothing? The sacrificial lambs on the alter of Suburban Sprawl. We are the ones who are going to "pay for this" more than anyone. And we are labled as "fearfull."

I heard that recording of the School Board and how one person there talked about being "mean" to constituants because she thought they just didn't want to send their children to South Lakes. I didn't say that. An At Large Member said that of people in another community. And "WE" are called elitist?

On this thread we are called foolish by some people for being committed enough to invest our hard earned money in property with an eye for the community and it's schools. On this thread we are called names by people who expect our children to go to their school. What kind of school is it going to be now? And how is that going to impact us?

Talk about something being done to people. And I do mean done.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas - why not pack an extra lunch?
>
> And keep it refrigerated where for 10 hours?
>
> Remember these are the kids we're getting to use
> the lunch card, who weren't eating at lunch and
> the lunch card doesn't work after school because
> the cafeteria is closed.


So let me get this straight. We should redistrict the schools because a few low income jocks can't eat before a football game without depending on another kid's parent?

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM,
> At last we agree on something! Affordable housing
> should not be clustered--this causes multiple
> problems with schools and crime such as we are
> seeing in FFX county. Also, economic segregation
> causes hopelessness in those populations that are
> clustered. This is well documented in the
> Brookings Institute Report on Affordable Housing
> that came out in 2007. Google it and you can
> download the pdf.
>
> Wake up FFX county! Unless you want to continually
> have to "fix" schools and pockets of economic
> disparity, you need to change your housing
> policies!
>
> Of course, nothing will change unless the SB and
> constituents start complaining to the BOS and
> holding them accountable for the problems they
> create.

GEt the government out of the housing business and let the markets work. Don't cluster anyone anywhere. Let the markets work.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have thought that number of teachers would
> be proportioal to number of students, but there
> are large variances. Some examples include:
>
> Schools with about 120 (+/-4) teachers include
> Marshall (1325 students), Hayfield (1582), and
> McLean (1768)
>
> Schools with about 140 (+/3) teachers include
> South Lakes (1443), Madison (1910), and Langley
> (2082)
>
> Schools with about 160 (+/-4) teachers include
> Edison (1776), Mt vernon (1758), Herndon (2190),
> Farifax (212) and Oakton (2350).
>
> While there are some differences in programs and
> demographics at the schools, in general, schools
> with more teachers / student have less desirable
> demographics, and also consistenly offer IB vs.
> AP. In most cases, an IB school has about the
> number of teachers found at an AP school with
> 300-400 more students.

WOW!!! That is fascinating. How can it be argued that SL isn't getting their fair resources if they have the same number of teachers as Langley when Langley has 600 more students?!!! That's incredible.

Perhaps SL's should let everyone know about their great student teacher ratio! If South Lakes wants people to go to their school they need to sell their school. This could be a great selling point!

What is the ratio for MMR students/teachers?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2008 12:10AM by SLVerity.

>>>>Opponents only need 6 votes. A motion fails on a tie. The status quo continues on a tie.

Stuy needs 7 to affect a change.<<<

You are right. Sorry. I stand by my estimates of the votes. Stu is clearly not popular on the school board, but that doesn't mean that other members will violate their rules of not mucking around in other members' schools.

PJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FY2009 Budget
> Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS)
> Superintendent Jack D. Dale has proposed a school
> system budget of $2.3 billion for FY 2009 that
> reflects cuts of $45.6 million and approximately
> 521 positions throughout FCPS and, for the second
> consecutive year, includes no new programs. The
> FY 2009 proposed budget represents a 3.3 percent
> increase over the FY 2008 approved budget.
>
> How do you propose a budget to eliminate 521
> positions and the SB is proposing to run double
> buses through the same neighborhoods to diferent
> schools for the next three years? Wouldn't the no
> new programs part apply to SL as well? If there
> are no new programs that would indicate no AP at
> SL correct? How can the Superintendent and the SB
> be putting out such different messages? Assuming
> this goes through I would think there should be a
> line item in the 09 budget to address the
> additional buses, drivers, transportation costs,
> additional teachers at SL?

I wouldn't count on double buses for three years. It will be a convenient excuse to not grandfather more than one or two grades.

South Lakes currently has 137 teachers for 1446 students. That's a ratio of nearly 10 to 1. If they get an extra 100 students next year, or even 150, they should need any additional teachers. Should they?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the ratio for MMR students/teachers?

I don't know but it probably isn't much different than the ratios for the other schools with ED centers, Deaf centers, etc.

Even if your ration is 5 to 1 for the MMR students, (very doubtful it is that low) that means 25 teachers for the 256 special ed kids, leaving 86 for the remaining 1,282 students, a ratio of 14 to 1. Adding another 100+ students (the number is likely to be far fewer) South Lakes should be fine with no increase in staff. So no budget worries.

SLHS Parent wrote:

"You should all be ashamed of yourselves for stoking discord in the community
by appealing to the worse angels of our nature - fear and elitism."

______________________________________

I remember reading about black mothers, in the South Bronx, who, worried about their children in public schools, were determined to place them in Catholic schools. There were some mothers in the area who thought these women were ‘uppity’.

Now we know. They weren’t uppity; they were elitists.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Parent wrote:
>
> "You should all be ashamed of yourselves for
> stoking discord in the community
> by appealing to the worse angels of our nature -
> fear and elitism."
>
> ______________________________________
>
> I remember reading about black mothers, in the
> South Bronx, who, worried about their children in
> public schools, were determined to place them in
> Catholic schools. There were some mothers in the
> area who thought these women were ‘uppity’.
>
> Now we know. They weren’t uppity; they were
> elitists.

Like those very poor Black moms and dads in Cleveland who wanted, and eventually got, vouchers, so that they could send their kids to Catholic schools?

How dare they want to choose their children's schools! ;)

Curious.... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So let me get this straight. We should redistrict
> the schools because a few low income jocks can't
> eat before a football game without depending on
> another kid's parent?

No one is saying that, troll.

But thanks for pointing out how far off topic this exchange had gotten.

About special ed in general and its effect on teacher ratios:

Essentially all the schools have similar raw numbers of so-called special ed students. Some specific numbers:

South Lakes: 256
Madison: 236
Oakton: 291
Herndon: 262
Lagley: 220
McLean: 217
Lee: 218
Marshall: 207
Stuart: 228
Chantilly: 369
Westfield: 381
Falls Church: 246

South Lakes also has 22 instructional assisstants, the most of any school in the northen half of the county (could be whole county, I didn't check all), more even than Westfield. Madison has 11, Herndon 9, Oakton 5, Langley 7, McLean 11, etc. Second most in the area is 18, at Mt Vernon and Chantilly.

Net net, even if SL has a larger percentage of special ed kids, which it does relative to the larger schools, its 18% vs. 12%, vs a factor of two or more, and South Lakes has many more instructional assistants than schools with larger populations.

BTW Neen had some math problems in her response. If 25 teachers are special ed, then 137 - 25 = 112 teachers are "non-special" (?) ed, for 1282 students, about 11.5:1.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About special ed in general and its effect on
> teacher ratios:
>
> Essentially all the schools have similar raw
> numbers of so-called special ed students. Some
> specific numbers:
>
> South Lakes: 256
> Madison: 236
> Oakton: 291
> Herndon: 262
> Lagley: 220
> McLean: 217
> Lee: 218
> Marshall: 207
> Stuart: 228
> Chantilly: 369
> Westfield: 381
> Falls Church: 246
>
> South Lakes also has 22 instructional assisstants,
> the most of any school in the northen half of the
> county (could be whole county, I didn't check
> all), more even than Westfield. Madison has 11,
> Herndon 9, Oakton 5, Langley 7, McLean 11, etc.
> Second most in the area is 18, at Mt Vernon and
> Chantilly.
>
> Net net, even if SL has a larger percentage of
> special ed kids, which it does relative to the
> larger schools, its 18% vs. 12%, vs a factor of
> two or more, and South Lakes has many more
> instructional assistants than schools with larger
> populations.
>
> BTW Neen had some math problems in her response.
> If 25 teachers are special ed, then 137 - 25 = 112
> teachers are "non-special" (?) ed, for 1282
> students, about 11.5:1.

You need to remember the huge difference in the ESOL population. They have a 10-1 ratio, or perhaps it is 15 to 1, which changes the ratio for general ed.

I didn't understand this:

"You need to remember the huge difference in the ESOL population. They have a 10-1 ratio, or perhaps it is 15 to 1, which changes the ratio for general ed."

South lakes only has 8% ESOL, 125 students. More than Madison and Langley, less than Herndon and Falls Church. That's not enough to create a huge difference in teacher utilization.

Question: I see the numbers of Special Ed students listed on the Membership charts. (Caution - some schools, including Mt Vernon and Woodson, also have Special Ed centers in addition to the Spec Ed students already being reported.) However, where can we find the data showing the numbers of teachers in each school?

I don't know where you would find that systematically.

The school web sites list the faculty by department in at least the cases I checked.

For example, the special education department at South Lakes has 33 teachers listed, whereas at Langley it has 28. I.e. South Lakes has more, but only 20% more.

It appears that in many or even most cases, teachers in the Special Ed department also teach some mainstream sounding classes, e.g. at both schools "special ed" teachers teach at least some Geometry and Chemistry.

I am wondering if a SL parent can tell me the break down of the 1400 students as far as how many are taking general education classes, special education and Full IB classes. I believe someone posted earlier that there are about 200 special ed students, so I am more interested in the 1200 remaining students.

How many of the South Lakes Students are currently enrolled in General Education Classes VS. IB?

I have read and heard that the South Lakes students are not getting access to resources like the larger schools, and I am trying to understand more clearly what resources we are talking about.It seems that the student to teacher ratio is not the issue.

According to the SB staff, South Lakes offers all of the General Education classes that would be available in every other FCPS.

How many of the current South Lakes students are missing "academic" opportunities, that are not available due to a small enrollment?

I feel that "elective" type programs (non academic), including sports and band are not a justifiable reason for the disruption and expense that this Boundary Study has caused. There are many small schools that still compete in sports. They just compete in smaller school divisions.

I think the county has a program in place for students to place into other schools, if a certain academic or language program is not available in your students base school.

The South Lakes PTA web site has some statistics on it. Apologies for not having the link to the page with the stats, the site in general is http://www.southlakesptsa.org/

They have an IB class participation number of about 50%, with no definition. My assumption is this is the percentage of students taking at least one IB class, but that's just an assumption.

The number of IB diplomas issued each year is less than 50. Of course, each of those kids worked really hard and got a terrific education. But the IB diploma is a niche, for less than 5% of the students.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am wondering if a SL parent can tell me the
> break down of the 1400 students as far as how many
> are taking general education classes, special
> education and Full IB classes. I believe someone
> posted earlier that there are about 200 special ed
> students, so I am more interested in the 1200
> remaining students.
>
> How many of the South Lakes Students are currently
> enrolled in General Education Classes VS. IB?
>
> I have read and heard that the South Lakes
> students are not getting access to resources like
> the larger schools, and I am trying to understand
> more clearly what resources we are talking
> about.It seems that the student to teacher ratio
> is not the issue.
>
> According to the SB staff, South Lakes offers all
> of the General Education classes that would be
> available in every other FCPS.
>
> How many of the current South Lakes students are
> missing "academic" opportunities, that are not
> available due to a small enrollment?
>
> I feel that "elective" type programs (non
> academic), including sports and band are not a
> justifiable reason for the disruption and expense
> that this Boundary Study has caused. There are
> many small schools that still compete in sports.
> They just compete in smaller school divisions.
>
> I think the county has a program in place for
> students to place into other schools, if a certain
> academic or language program is not available in
> your students base school.


Yes, this is called pupil placement. FCPS has such forms for parents to pupil place their children out out if a course or program is not available at their base school--providing that the base principal okays the transfer.

Fox Mill Estates Parent - we welcome you and your children with open arms. There's nothing you'll have to "pay." If you believe that, then you are fearful. But don't be afraid. Your children will get a very high quality education, and your investment in Fox Mill Estates will go towards our community and its schools - South Reston, and South Lakes. You ask: what kind of school will it be now? Answer: One of the best in the school system. You ask: how will is that going to impact us? Answer: Positively.

Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am fearfull and elitist. I want my child to go
> to the best school "my taxes" can buy him. That
> is why I bought my house where I did and one
> reason I spend my money and time to maintain and
> improve my home. I am fearful that my interests
> are not being represented in this democratic
> republic. No one has talked to my wife or I about
> this issue. We are tax payers. We have
> offspring. We are citizens.
>
> We are being told we are going to be giving up
> more than we are getting. Are we to do nothing?
> The sacrificial lambs on the alter of Suburban
> Sprawl. We are the ones who are going to "pay for
> this" more than anyone. And we are labled as
> "fearfull."
>
> I heard that recording of the School Board and how
> one person there talked about being "mean" to
> constituants because she thought they just didn't
> want to send their children to South Lakes. I
> didn't say that. An At Large Member said that of
> people in another community. And "WE" are called
> elitist?
>
> On this thread we are called foolish by some
> people for being committed enough to invest our
> hard earned money in property with an eye for the
> community and it's schools. On this thread we are
> called names by people who expect our children to
> go to their school. What kind of school is it
> going to be now? And how is that going to impact
> us?
>
> Talk about something being done to people. And I
> do mean done.

SLHS Parent toFox Mill Estates Parent - we welcome you and your children with open arms. There's nothing you'll have to "pay." If you believe that, then you are fearful. But don't be afraid.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That kind of comment is really nauseating…..


The below reports help prove the negative financial impact redistricting could have on the neighborhoods selected by Stu Gibson and the South Lakes PTSA. Positive gains for Reston homeowners… to include Stu Gibson and his boss… Dale…since they live in Reston.

Understand the very valid concerns regarding IB verses AP. What I have learned on this forum about International Baccalaureate…. run from IB… very fast….don’t stop.

…those being redistricted stand to lose between 10 - 19% of their home value and those in Reston will eventually reap the benefits. Naturally, if this social experiment is successful, redistrictors will slowly regain their property values. For, Reston home owners, it is a win win. And yes…added bonus with the extra students, you’ll have basket weaving offered at South Lakes High School and a few happy cheerleaders.


Kwame Owusu-Edusei, (very diversified name, is it not?),
Department of Ag & Applied Economics,Clemson University
School Quality and Property Values
there is as much as 19% property value difference between homes located within a average school district vs. an excellent school.

How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?*1
William T. Bogarta and Brian A. Cromwellb
Department of Economics and Center for Regional Economic Issues, Case Western Reserve University,
" that disruption of neighborhood schools reduces house values by 9.9%,"

Sorry Birdlover, it's apples and oranges. A mother seeking admittance for her child into a private school as a way out of a failing public school is not the same as a parent asking the public school system not to redistrict his or her child from one good school to another good school.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Parent wrote:
>
> "You should all be ashamed of yourselves for
> stoking discord in the community
> by appealing to the worse angels of our nature -
> fear and elitism."
>
> ______________________________________
>
> I remember reading about black mothers, in the
> South Bronx, who, worried about their children in
> public schools, were determined to place them in
> Catholic schools. There were some mothers in the
> area who thought these women were ‘uppity’.
>
> Now we know. They weren’t uppity; they were
> elitists.

SLHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fox Mill Estates Parent - we welcome you and your
> children with open arms. There's nothing you'll
> have to "pay." If you believe that, then you are
> fearful. But don't be afraid. Your children will
> get a very high quality education, and your
> investment in Fox Mill Estates will go towards our
> community and its schools - South Reston, and
> South Lakes. You ask: what kind of school will it
> be now? Answer: One of the best in the school
> system. You ask: how will is that going to
> impact us? Answer: Positively.
>
> Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am fearfull and elitist. I want my child to
> go
> > to the best school "my taxes" can buy him.
> That
> > is why I bought my house where I did and one
> > reason I spend my money and time to maintain
> and
> > improve my home. I am fearful that my
> interests
> > are not being represented in this democratic
> > republic. No one has talked to my wife or I
> about
> > this issue. We are tax payers. We have
> > offspring. We are citizens.
> >
> > We are being told we are going to be giving up
> > more than we are getting. Are we to do nothing?
>
> > The sacrificial lambs on the alter of Suburban
> > Sprawl. We are the ones who are going to "pay
> for
> > this" more than anyone. And we are labled as
> > "fearfull."
> >
> > I heard that recording of the School Board and
> how
> > one person there talked about being "mean" to
> > constituants because she thought they just
> didn't
> > want to send their children to South Lakes. I
> > didn't say that. An At Large Member said that
> of
> > people in another community. And "WE" are
> called
> > elitist?
> >
> > On this thread we are called foolish by some
> > people for being committed enough to invest our
> > hard earned money in property with an eye for
> the
> > community and it's schools. On this thread we
> are
> > called names by people who expect our children
> to
> > go to their school. What kind of school is it
> > going to be now? And how is that going to
> impact
> > us?
> >
> > Talk about something being done to people. And
> I
> > do mean done.

> Fox Mill Estates Parent - we welcome you and your
> children with open arms. There's nothing you'll
> have to "pay." If you believe that, then you are
> fearful. But don't be afraid. Your children will
> get a very high quality education, and your
> investment in Fox Mill Estates will go towards our
> community and its schools - South Reston, and
> South Lakes. You ask: what kind of school will it
> be now? Answer: One of the best in the school
> system. You ask: how will is that going to
> impact us? Answer: Positively

Oh my goshh--what did you just say? You are saying Fox Mill is being snatched to benefit South Lakes?..South Reston and North Reston should be one..not just South Reston.

Sorry, VaDriver, but your argument is built upon a logical fallacy. Even if one were to believe that there is a 19% difference in the home values in an average school district and an excellent one, that is of no moment here. Why? Because redistricting will not transform Oakton or Westfield into merely average schools, and South Lakes is not an average school now and certainly will not be after redistricting.

In any event, public school officials obviously should not ignore the merits of redistricting because some people affected believe, without foundation, that their housing prices will be impacted. Narrow crass personal interests are not valid reasons for public officials to avoid doing the obviously right thing.

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Parent toFox Mill Estates Parent - we
> welcome you and your children with open arms.
> There's nothing you'll have to "pay." If you
> believe that, then you are fearful. But don't be
> afraid.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------
> That kind of comment is really nauseating…..
>
>
> The below reports help prove the negative
> financial impact redistricting could have on the
> neighborhoods selected by Stu Gibson and the South
> Lakes PTSA. Positive gains for Reston homeowners…
> to include Stu Gibson and his boss… Dale…since
> they live in Reston.
>
> Understand the very valid concerns regarding IB
> verses AP. What I have learned on this forum
> about International Baccalaureate…. run from IB…
> very fast….don’t stop.
>
> …those being redistricted stand to lose between 10
> - 19% of their home value and those in Reston will
> eventually reap the benefits. Naturally, if this
> social experiment is successful, redistrictors
> will slowly regain their property values. For,
> Reston home owners, it is a win win. And yes…added
> bonus with the extra students, you’ll have basket
> weaving offered at South Lakes High School and a
> few happy cheerleaders.
>
>
> Kwame Owusu-Edusei, (very diversified name, is it
> not?),
> Department of Ag & Applied Economics,Clemson
> University
> School Quality and Property Values
> there is as much as 19% property value difference
> between homes located within a average school
> district vs. an excellent school.
>
> How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?*1
> William T. Bogarta and Brian A. Cromwellb
> Department of Economics and Center for Regional
> Economic Issues, Case Western Reserve University,
> " that disruption of neighborhood schools reduces
> house values by 9.9%,"

Here is an interesting link to a site to compare Schools etc.

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=sc/scid=49283,49219,49206/pid=sr/up_txt=Fairfax$sp;County/up_ust=VA/up_so=1/up_sc=0/up_p=-1/up_fp=1/up_fltr_nb=High/up_ctxt=Fairfax$sp;County$sp;$sp;,VA

You're in error, Baffled.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fox Mill Estates Parent - we welcome you and
> your
> > children with open arms. There's nothing
> you'll
> > have to "pay." If you believe that, then you
> are
> > fearful. But don't be afraid. Your children
> will
> > get a very high quality education, and your
> > investment in Fox Mill Estates will go towards
> our
> > community and its schools - South Reston, and
> > South Lakes. You ask: what kind of school will
> it
> > be now? Answer: One of the best in the school
> > system. You ask: how will is that going to
> > impact us? Answer: Positively.
> >
> > Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am fearfull and elitist. I want my child
> to
> > go
> > > to the best school "my taxes" can buy him.
> > That
> > > is why I bought my house where I did and one
> > > reason I spend my money and time to maintain
> > and
> > > improve my home. I am fearful that my
> > interests
> > > are not being represented in this democratic
> > > republic. No one has talked to my wife or I
> > about
> > > this issue. We are tax payers. We have
> > > offspring. We are citizens.
> > >
> > > We are being told we are going to be giving
> up
> > > more than we are getting. Are we to do
> nothing?
> >
> > > The sacrificial lambs on the alter of
> Suburban
> > > Sprawl. We are the ones who are going to
> "pay
> > for
> > > this" more than anyone. And we are labled as
> > > "fearfull."
> > >
> > > I heard that recording of the School Board
> and
> > how
> > > one person there talked about being "mean" to
> > > constituants because she thought they just
> > didn't
> > > want to send their children to South Lakes.
> I
> > > didn't say that. An At Large Member said
> that
> > of
> > > people in another community. And "WE" are
> > called
> > > elitist?
> > >
> > > On this thread we are called foolish by some
> > > people for being committed enough to invest
> our
> > > hard earned money in property with an eye for
> > the
> > > community and it's schools. On this thread we
> > are
> > > called names by people who expect our
> children
> > to
> > > go to their school. What kind of school is
> it
> > > going to be now? And how is that going to
> > impact
> > > us?
> > >
> > > Talk about something being done to people.
> And
> > I
> > > do mean done.
>
> > Fox Mill Estates Parent - we welcome you and
> your
> > children with open arms. There's nothing
> you'll
> > have to "pay." If you believe that, then you
> are
> > fearful. But don't be afraid. Your children
> will
> > get a very high quality education, and your
> > investment in Fox Mill Estates will go towards
> our
> > community and its schools - South Reston, and
> > South Lakes. You ask: what kind of school will
> it
> > be now? Answer: One of the best in the school
> > system. You ask: how will is that going to
> > impact us? Answer: Positively
>
> Oh my goshh--what did you just say? You are
> saying Fox Mill is being snatched to benefit South
> Lakes?..South Reston and North Reston should be
> one..not just South Reston.

Reston is not a municipality. It is simply a homeowners association within Fairfax County. Currently, some students who are not part of the homeowners association go to SLHS, and some students who are part of the homeowners association do not go there. It's not determinative, and never has been. There is no valid reason for North Reston students (Aldrin/Armstrong) not to go to HHS 1 to 3 miles away (as they always have) so as to travel to SLHS. This would also have a ripple effect on HHS, which is not the primary focus of the boundary study. There also is no valid reason for Fox Mill students to drive past SLHS in order to take back roads to Oakton 8 to 10 miles away. I'm sure some have reasons they would want to do this, but none of them are valid from a public policy perspective. Thus, those who dislike the way public policy is affecting them, should make a private decision to: (a) move to an area that is not at the outer-reaches of the school district they desire; (b) home school; or(c) send their children to a private school. These are perfectly valid private decisions, even if made for narrow crass personal reasons.

SLHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reston is not a municipality.

It will be soon.

> It is simply a
> homeowners association within Fairfax County.

Could you be any more dismissive of Reston. Maybe your nic should really be HHS

> It's not determinative, and never has been.

Only for people who don't respect the Reston community.

> There is no valid reason for North Reston students
> (Aldrin/Armstrong) not to go to HHS 1 to 3 miles
> away (as they always have) so as to travel to
> SLHS.

Except that Aldrin students are closer to SL than Forest Edge students and many Armstrong students are just as close. Both of those subset of students live in Reston and belong at Reston High School - South Lakes

> This would also have a ripple effect on
> HHS, which is not the primary focus of the
> boundary study.

Which can be adjusted with McNair, Coopermine or even Forestville if this study had been done right.

> There also is no valid reason for
> Fox Mill students to drive past SLHS in order to
> take back roads to Oakton 8 to 10 miles away.

They don't. They drive down Lawyers and Vale Road.

> I'm sure some have reasons they would want to do this,
> but none of them are valid from a public policy
> perspective.

Actually maintain coummunities within a district is a public policy objective that is given the highest priority by the Supreme Court.

Reston kids at Reston's High School - South Lakes



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2008 10:12AM by Thomas More.

Is Navy at the 'outer reaches' of Chantilly?

The proposal on the table is a fine one. However, I agree that the end product could have been better, but certain areas were not on the table, and many people decided to create hysteria rather than be constructive. In any event, in a perfect world the option that makes the most sense in my view would be:

Fox Mill to SLHS.
Crossfield north of West Ox to SLHS.
Aldrin east of Reston Parkway to SLHS (Aldrin west of Res. Pky remain at HHS).
Langley south of Route 7 and east of Reston Parkway to SLHS
Langley south of Route 7 and west of Reston Parkway to HHS

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reston is not a municipality.
>
> It will be soon.
>
> > It is simply a
> > homeowners association within Fairfax County.
>
> Could you be any more dismissive of Reston. Maybe
> your nic should really be HHS
>
> > It's not determinative, and never has been.
>
> Only for people who don't respect the Reston
> community.
>
> > There is no valid reason for North Reston
> students
> > (Aldrin/Armstrong) not to go to HHS 1 to 3
> miles
> > away (as they always have) so as to travel to
> > SLHS.
>
> Except that Aldrin students are closer to SL than
> Forest Edge students and many Armstrong students
> are just as close. Both of those subset of
> students live in Reston and belong at Reston High
> School - South Lakes
>
> > This would also have a ripple effect on
> > HHS, which is not the primary focus of the
> > boundary study.
>
> Which can be adjusted with McNair, Coopermine or
> even Forestville if this study had been done
> right.
>
> > There also is no valid reason for
> > Fox Mill students to drive past SLHS in order
> to
> > take back roads to Oakton 8 to 10 miles away.
>
> They don't. They drive down Lawyers and Vale
> Road.
>
> > I'm sure some have reasons they would want to do
> this,
> > but none of them are valid from a public policy
> > perspective.
>
> Actually maintain coummunities within a district
> is a public policy objective that is given the
> highest priority by the Supreme Court.
>
> Reston kids ar Reston's High School - South Lakes

A brief question for all the AP and IB gurus on this thread:

From what I've gathered from following a portion of this discussion, if you take AP classes and pass AP tests you get college credit for these classes at whatever university you end up attending. I know some will re-take that course in college for an easy A but they don't have to.

Conversely, in IB you take IB classes and if you pass the test you either don't, or are at least less likely in the US, to get college credit for it. Taking a number of IB courses and passing tests in addition to community service will earn you a IB diploma which is unavailable w/AP but will the diploma earn you any college credits or provide any other benefits after setting foot on campus (ie-helps in admission but not much afterwards)?

Sorry if this has been covered already, just don't have time to go through 160 pages. Thanks.

Good point here:

"Is Navy at the 'outer reaches' of Chantilly?"

Chantilly is a very compact district. Everybody comes from less than three miles away, most less than 1.5. If you exclude Westfield (since its even bigger), the next closest school with a contiguous boundary is Oakton, but that's five miles away as the crow flies, almost the same distace from Oakton as Fox Mill.

http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/3mile.pdf

I thought it was telling that the SLPTSA didn't think to mention the increased travel time for Navy people...apparently, if it doesn't help South Lakes, its irrelevant to even mention. Kathy Smith also exposed herself as less than a rocket scientist when she became concerned at the board meetig that people moved out of Chantilly would have a longer trip. Welll...duh....

Oh, and Forestville (west edge of Langley) is less than three miles from Herndon, in some cases less than one and even walking distace, but we'd rather not mention that, and send them more than eleven miles as the crow flies to Langely, or almost twice as far as the Fox Mill kids have to go to Oakton. Check it out yourself, you'll be scratching your head..."huh?". Apparently, the concern for the welfare of kids with long drives only extends to people the school board says we're allowed to think about this time.

This is too many people for SLHS if they all show up:

Fox Mill to SLHS. (342)
Crossfield north of West Ox to SLHS. (not sure, 100-200)
Aldrin east of Reston Parkway to SLHS (Aldrin west of Res. Pky remain at HHS). (most of 290)
Langley south of Route 7 and east of Reston Parkway to SLHS (not sure, not too many)
Langley south of Route 7 and west of Reston Parkway to HHS

Basically, SLHS can only hold another 600 kids, and even 600 makes it more enrolled percentagewise than any other school in the study, and bigger than McLean, Madison, Marshall, etc. The reduction of 500 kids from Oakton is sort of a big collateral damage hit to Oakton when it was aleady in balance.

SLHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
There is no
> valid reason for North Reston students
> (Aldrin/Armstrong) not to go to HHS 1 to 3 miles
> away (as they always have) so as to travel to
> SLHS. This would also have a ripple effect on
> HHS, which is not the primary focus of the
> boundary study. There also is no valid reason for
> Fox Mill students to drive past SLHS in order to
> take back roads to Oakton 8 to 10 miles away. I'm
> sure some have reasons they would want to do this,
> but none of them are valid from a public policy
> perspective.

If you use this logic than Floris should be redistricted to Chantilly. So, snap, snap, let's get busy we need to sneak the criteria change in before the public realizes it and then we need to do some shiftin'.

Another option:

Fox Mill to SLHS.
Floris east of Monroe to SLHS.
Crossfield north of West OX/Folkstone to SLHS.
Madison island to SLHS.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is too many people for SLHS if they all show
> up:
>
> Fox Mill to SLHS. (342)
> Crossfield north of West Ox to SLHS. (not sure,
> 100-200)
> Aldrin east of Reston Parkway to SLHS (Aldrin west
> of Res. Pky remain at HHS). (most of 290)
> Langley south of Route 7 and east of Reston
> Parkway to SLHS (not sure, not too many)
> Langley south of Route 7 and west of Reston
> Parkway to HHS
>
> Basically, SLHS can only hold another 600 kids,
> and even 600 makes it more enrolled percentagewise
> than any other school in the study, and bigger
> than McLean, Madison, Marshall, etc. The
> reduction of 500 kids from Oakton is sort of a big
> collateral damage hit to Oakton when it was aleady
> in balance.

On closer examination, takin crossfield east of West Ox creates an attendance island, and also doesn't impact that many students (more like 100 than 200). I'd leave Aldrin in and backfill HHS with Forestville folks. You might not even need Fox Mill then, which would help out the Navy folks.

WestfieldDad had the best suggestion:

Forestville to Herndon
Armstrong and Aldrin to South Lakes

Use the millions saved by cancelling the Langley addition to bus kids around for a few years.

Westfield, Oakton and Chantilly will be under the cap in a few years.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad had the best suggestion:
>
> Forestville to Herndon
> Armstrong and Aldrin to South Lakes
>
> Use the millions saved by cancelling the Langley
> addition to bus kids around for a few years.
>
> Westfield, Oakton and Chantilly will be under the
> cap in a few years.


Yes, that is a good suggestion--problem is politics got in the way with Langley--stupid how that happened. If there was a way to cancel the addition, then by golly, the redistricting approach would have been probably most fair with moving Forestville folks to Herndon, then the two Reston precints go to SLHS so forth.

All Reston kids to Reston's High school-South Lakes.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good point here:
>
> "Is Navy at the 'outer reaches' of Chantilly?"
>
> Chantilly is a very compact district. Everybody
> comes from less than three miles away, most less
> than 1.5.

Chantilly is also not neighbors to Loudoun so it CAN have that plus it doesn't have low density areas. Aldrin is not on the loudoun side of Herndon but is clearly on the reston side. Their attendance removes options for others that actually border loudoun or are tradtional herndon - like anything around frying Pan Park. .

Aldrin school building increase is 1.18 miles [4.34 to South Lakes -3.16 herndon hs] . A Langley Herndon street[not the closest either] is 2.63 miles to herndon HS and 14.27 to Langley for a decrease of 11.64 miles each way. Another area is 4.2 to South Lakes and 10.63 to Langley.

That's a lot of bus miles since Langley is not a secondary school like Robinson that covers a wide territory - seconadry schools can share busses which is good in low density areas. Langley is near the congested American legion bridge and on Georgetown Pike , a 2 lane road between the Beltway entrance and a major federal installation plus appears to have a huge volume of student drivers going with traffic.

FCPS has Langley shown as being in the High schools of the future consortium with Stuart despite the boundary spread.

Fox Mill:
Oakton 8.63
South lakes 3.81
herndon 5.19
chantilly 5.64
westfield 7.52

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WestfieldDad had the best suggestion:
> >
> > Forestville to Herndon
> > Armstrong and Aldrin to South Lakes
> >
> > Use the millions saved by cancelling the
> Langley
> > addition to bus kids around for a few years.
> >
> > Westfield, Oakton and Chantilly will be under
> the
> > cap in a few years.
>
>
> Yes, that is a good suggestion--problem is
> politics got in the way with Langley--stupid how
> that happened. If there was a way to cancel the
> addition, then by golly, the redistricting
> approach would have been probably most fair with
> moving Forestville folks to Herndon, then the two
> Reston precints go to SLHS so forth.
>
> All Reston kids to Reston's High school-South
> Lakes.

The langley addition is not that big - I read it was reduced in scope. What's in it? Strauss had said Langley had the smallest square footage of any high school prior to the addition -so how many kids are they stuffing in the building? She also said something about special needs children - are they bussing them elsewhere? Used to send a lot of them to other schools.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ...The areas in Herndon and
> Reston with more crime are longer term denser low
> income areas (e.g. Dogwood east of Fairfax County
> Parkway or Herndon Alabama area.)

I don't understand why Herndon HS and SL's HS PTA's are complaining about mcNair westfield portion. Aldrin to Hughes is 4.13 and 3.68 to Herndon middle with a difference of .45.

Grandfathering appears to be far less costly for Aldrin than it is for Floris. What percentage of Aldrin kids go to Hughes Gt center?

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WestfieldDad had the best suggestion:
> >
> > Forestville to Herndon
> > Armstrong and Aldrin to South Lakes
> >
> > Use the millions saved by cancelling the
> Langley
> > addition to bus kids around for a few years.
> >
> > Westfield, Oakton and Chantilly will be under
> the
> > cap in a few years.
>
>
> Yes, that is a good suggestion--problem is
> politics got in the way with Langley--stupid how
> that happened. If there was a way to cancel the
> addition, then by golly, the redistricting
> approach would have been probably most fair with
> moving Forestville folks to Herndon, then the two
> Reston precints go to SLHS so forth.
>
> All Reston kids to Reston's High school-South
> Lakes.

Yes Baffled, Politics did get in the way, it seems that Stu Gibson had a different agenda back in January 2003. At that time, he felt that parents could actually choose to buy a home in an area where they wanted to send their children to school, and he for one was against a school boundary study.

SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS Rita Thompson and Mychele Brickner, both at-large members, without mentioning the words “boundary change,” suggested the School Board should be looking at reapportioning the attendance areas to address the overcrowding of some schools, while others are underenrolled. The pair did not find support among their fellow members.
"We have overcapacity at Westfield and overcapacity at Langley, and we're under capacity at South Lakes. I understand the political ramifications, but we are responsible to all the taxpayers to show we are being responsible with their money, and we aren't trying to address this," Brickner said.
"A lot of people choose where to live based on the high schools where they live. It has been suggested before that all of Reston should go to South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a daughter who went there and another that is going to graduate from there, but North Point Village doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the community and float the idea of a boundary change, go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting that measure."

http://googlemail.com/attachment?ui=1&realattid=f_fbgoeoim&attid=0.2&disp=safe&view=att&th=1177e5948ea74c8e&saduie=1egnamlviz5geqztobqfpz9bvf9x93e&sadet=1200417180713&sads=0a6f2bbd5094da492e91b6e23741cdf1


I find it so interesting that the SL PTSA and the South Lakes Boundary Committee are so enamored with Stu Gibson now, and have such a wonderful working relationship. I guess Stu had to insure the the Langley addition was funded and under construction before deciding to pay back the SL parents for years of neglect.

This seems to be Stu's MO. 8 years ago, when Stu needed children to fill up Westfield, be made a very big issue of telling Floris that our future was not in Oakton, but that it was to be in the West, and this is where we would be going.

It seems now, that we in Floris have contributed much to the success of Westfield, we are no longer needed, and Stu would like us to fix problems in South lakes. I am just stunned that he continues to be elected after so many lies.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > word Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > WestfieldDad had the best suggestion:
> > >
> > > Forestville to Herndon
> > > Armstrong and Aldrin to South Lakes
> > >
> > > Use the millions saved by cancelling the
> > Langley
> > > addition to bus kids around for a few years.
> > >
> > > Westfield, Oakton and Chantilly will be under
> > the
> > > cap in a few years.
> >
> >
> > Yes, that is a good suggestion--problem is
> > politics got in the way with Langley--stupid
> how
> > that happened. If there was a way to cancel
> the
> > addition, then by golly, the redistricting
> > approach would have been probably most fair
> with
> > moving Forestville folks to Herndon, then the
> two
> > Reston precints go to SLHS so forth.
> >
> > All Reston kids to Reston's High school-South
> > Lakes.
>
> Yes Baffled, Politics did get in the way, it seems
> that Stu Gibson had a different agenda back in
> January 2003. At that time, he felt that parents
> could actually choose to buy a home in an area
> where they wanted to send their children to
> school, and he for one was against a school
> boundary study.
>
> SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS Rita Thompson and Mychele
> Brickner, both at-large members, without
> mentioning the words “boundary change,” suggested
> the School Board should be looking at
> reapportioning the attendance areas to address the
> overcrowding of some schools, while others are
> underenrolled. The pair did not find support among
> their fellow members.
> "We have overcapacity at Westfield and
> overcapacity at Langley, and we're under capacity
> at South Lakes. I understand the political
> ramifications, but we are responsible to all the
> taxpayers to show we are being responsible with
> their money, and we aren't trying to address
> this," Brickner said.
> "A lot of people choose where to live based on the
> high schools where they live. It has been
> suggested before that all of Reston should go to
> South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to
> go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a
> daughter who went there and another that is going
> to graduate from there, but North Point Village
> doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson
> (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the
> community and float the idea of a boundary change,
> go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting
> that measure."
>
> http://googlemail.com/attachment?ui=1&realattid=f_
> fbgoeoim&attid=0.2&disp=safe&view=att&th=1177e5948
> ea74c8e&saduie=1egnamlviz5geqztobqfpz9bvf9x93e&sad
> et=1200417180713&sads=0a6f2bbd5094da492e91b6e23741
> cdf1
>
>
> I find it so interesting that the SL PTSA and the
> South Lakes Boundary Committee are so enamored
> with Stu Gibson now, and have such a wonderful
> working relationship. I guess Stu had to insure
> the the Langley addition was funded and under
> construction before deciding to pay back the SL
> parents for years of neglect.
>
> This seems to be Stu's MO. 8 years ago, when Stu
> needed children to fill up Westfield, be made a
> very big issue of telling Floris that our future
> was not in Oakton, but that it was to be in the
> West, and this is where we would be going.
>
> It seems now, that we in Floris have contributed
> much to the success of Westfield, we are no longer
> needed, and Stu would like us to fix problems in
> South lakes. I am just stunned that he continues
> to be elected after so many lies.


Amazing..which is why the boundary study is all screwed up and illegal.

Everyone who feels that way should sign the Stu Gibson recall petition. It's time to get him off the school board.

SLHS Parent,

Why aren't you happy with the scenario on the table you greedy fool? I love your "it's all about me" attitude. Why don't we just send all of Oakton to South Lakes and shut the school down.

Why don't you try to embrace the schools you have coming your way and stop complaining that it could have been better. You are rediculous. Why don't you sit down with a school boundary map and some enrollment numbers and look at the impact if some of your "best scenarios" came true. You want Oakton at 1750 kids? You want more Chantilly kids to drive past Chantilly on their way to Oakton? Are you capable of thinking or just selfish?

AP/IB Ignoramus Wrote:
> A brief question for all the AP and IB gurus on
> this thread:
>
> From what I've gathered from following a portion
> of this discussion, if you take AP classes and
> pass AP tests you get college credit for these
> classes at whatever university you end up
> attending. I know some will re-take that course
> in college for an easy A but they don't have to.
>
> Conversely, in IB you take IB classes and if you
> pass the test you either don't, or are at least
> less likely in the US, to get college credit for
> it. Taking a number of IB courses and passing
> tests in addition to community service will earn
> you a IB diploma which is unavailable w/AP but
> will the diploma earn you any college credits or
> provide any other benefits after setting foot on
> campus (ie-helps in admission but not much
> afterwards)?
>
> Sorry if this has been covered already, just don't
> have time to go through 160 pages. Thanks.

TWO DISTINCTIONS TO KEEP IN MIND: SL v. HL and IB Diploma Grad v Certificate Student.

This is an over-simplification, but in general, IB Standard (or Subsidiary) Level (SL) courses are one-year and IB High Level (HL) courses are two years. Again in general, a grade of "3" on an exam for a one-year AP course earns the same college credit as a "4" on an exam for a two-year IB HL course. Example: AP English Language in 11th grade and AP English Lit in 12th grade counts as two advanced courses. HL IB English in 11th AND 12th counts as just one course. Key point: Few colleges give much if any recognition for SL courses at all. (UVA and William and Mary generally grant NO SL recognition; Virgina Tech will give credit for ONE SL course but ONLY with the full IB Diploma.)

Which brings us to the second distinction: The full IB Diploma Programme is great for the 5-8% of students for whom it "fits." As for the the other 93% or so students in an IB school, a set of IB "certificates" on random IB courses and exams is just not viewed as valuable as a set of AP courses and exams. The IB Full Diploma IS "respected" by a sizable number of US colleges. Diploma Candidates are an elite "highly organized and highly motivated" group and more public resources are dedicated to these elite students. Examples:
- The group has a special full-time staff member just to oversee their academic needs.
- The entire school's master schedule must revolve around their IB Diploma requirements.
- The one-year philosophical course called Theory of Knowledge (TOK) is the catalyst of the DP (TOK is an evening class at South Lakes.)
- Diploma Candidates need to complete 150 hours of "Creativity, Action, Service" (CAS) [extra-curricular activities] and a staff member tracks and documents their activities. [It could be argued that all college-bound students would benefit from a staff member maintaining a portfolio that tracks and documents their extra-curricular activities.]

----
Parents in AP scools might well ask why FCPS fails to promote the AP International Diploma. The requirements are at least a "3" or above on five AP exams:
- Two AP Exams from two different languages selected from English and/OR world languages (so English Lit AND English Language covers it - no foreign language required)
- One AP Exam designated as offering a global perspective: World History, Human Geography, or Government and Politics: Comparative.
- One exam from the sciences OR math
- One (or two) additional exam(s) from among any content areas except English and world languages. They include history and social sciences and arts.
- One more requitrement: "To earn an APID, a student attending school within the United States must indicate on at least one AP Exam answer sheet that the results should be sent to a university outside the United States." Bottom line: Students at AP schools can also earn, at NO additional cost to FCPS, an "International Diploma."

Bulldog Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone who feels that way should sign the Stu
> Gibson recall petition. It's time to get him off
> the school board.


Where can one find the Stu Gibson recall petition to sign up?

taxpayer Wrote:
> seconadry schools can share busses
> which is good in low density areas. ...

Question: With South Lakes and Hughes so close, why can't they share the same bus routes, like Frost and Woodson do?

And if they did, why not let the former Hughes students who want to pupil place into the South Lakes IB programme continue to ride the same buses? Transportation problem solved - for them, at least.

Here is the information:

Dear Hunter Mill residents,

We are collecting the signatures for the Petition for Removal of Stuart D. Gibson, School Board Member, Hunter Mill District, Fairfax County. The following is the copy of the petition.

If you want to sign for the petition, please send your name, and address to the following email account. Please make sure that you are a registered voter of Hunter Mill District.

petition_2008@yahoo.com

We will send our volunteers to pick up your signature at your convenient time.

Thank you for your support.

PETITION FOR REMOVAL OF STUART D. GIBSON, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER, HUNTER MILL DISTRICT, FAIRFAX COUNTY

WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 24.2-233 of the Virginia Code, a circuit court, upon petition, may remove from office any elected officer residing within the jurisdiction of the court, for, among other things, neglect of duty, misuse of office or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of office;

WHEREAS, the Virginia Department of Education, in a Letter of Findings dated November 27, 2007, found that Stuart D. Gibson, School Board Member for the Hunter Mill District in Fairfax County, violated the confidentiality rights of an eight-year old Fairfax County Public School student who resides in his District and that such actions were a violation of federal and state law;

WHEREAS, Stuart D. Gibson’s violation of confidentiality rights constitutes a “misuse of office” pursuant to Section 24.2-233 of the Virginia Code since, according to the Letter of Findings from the Virginia Department of Education, “the record supports that Mr. Gibson obtained the information he shared in the course of fulfilling his duties as a school board member“ and the release of such confidential information was strictly for personal, political gain in the most recent election;

WHEREAS, such violation of confidentiality rights is having a material adverse effect upon the conduct of office as Stuart D. Gibson, pursuant to his duties as a School Board Member, is (i) charged with upholding and enforcing all state and federal special education and privacy laws for both the School Board and all Fairfax County Public School employees, and in light of his own multiple violations, can no longer exercise objective oversight and disciplinary authority over these critical matters and, (ii) brings scandal and notoriety to his office, the School Board and Fairfax County Schools overall for his multiple violations of federal and state special education and privacy laws;

NOW, THEREFORE, we, the registered voters of the Hunter Mill District, who collectively constitute ten percent of the total number of votes cast at the November, 2007 election for the School Board Member seat in the Hunter Mill District, hereby petition the Circuit Court in Fairfax County for the immediate removal of Stuart D. Gibson from his office.

BEWARE AP/IB Ignoramus: Forum Reader really dislikes IB and has posted much misinformation here to discredit it, so take everything this person says with a big grain of NaCl.

I've sworn to stay out of FU as much as possible b/c it's a waste of time for South Lakes supporters, so I won't take the time to go through her info to tell you what's true and what isn't (some of it is, much of it isn't), but I needed to point this out.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP/IB Ignoramus Wrote:
> > A brief question for all the AP and IB gurus on
> > this thread:
> >
> > From what I've gathered from following a
> portion
> > of this discussion, if you take AP classes and
> > pass AP tests you get college credit for these
> > classes at whatever university you end up
> > attending. I know some will re-take that
> course
> > in college for an easy A but they don't have
> to.
> >
> > Conversely, in IB you take IB classes and if
> you
> > pass the test you either don't, or are at least
> > less likely in the US, to get college credit
> for
> > it. Taking a number of IB courses and passing
> > tests in addition to community service will
> earn
> > you a IB diploma which is unavailable w/AP but
> > will the diploma earn you any college credits
> or
> > provide any other benefits after setting foot
> on
> > campus (ie-helps in admission but not much
> > afterwards)?
> >
> > Sorry if this has been covered already, just
> don't
> > have time to go through 160 pages. Thanks.
>
> TWO DISTINCTIONS TO KEEP IN MIND: SL v. HL and IB
> Diploma Grad v Certificate Student.
>
> This is an over-simplification, but in general, IB
> Standard (or Subsidiary) Level (SL) courses are
> one-year and IB High Level (HL) courses are two
> years. Again in general, a grade of "3" on an exam
> for a one-year AP course earns the same college
> credit as a "4" on an exam for a two-year IB HL
> course. Example: AP English Language in 11th grade
> and AP English Lit in 12th grade counts as two
> advanced courses. HL IB English in 11th AND 12th
> counts as just one course. Key point: Few colleges
> give much if any recognition for SL courses at
> all. (UVA and William and Mary generally grant NO
> SL recognition; Virgina Tech will give credit for
> ONE SL course but ONLY with the full IB Diploma.)
>
> Which brings us to the second distinction: The
> full IB Diploma Programme is great for the 5-8% of
> students for whom it "fits." As for the the other
> 93% or so students in an IB school, a set of IB
> "certificates" on random IB courses and exams is
> just not viewed as valuable as a set of AP courses
> and exams. The IB Full Diploma IS "respected" by a
> sizable number of US colleges. Diploma Candidates
> are an elite "highly organized and highly
> motivated" group and more public resources are
> dedicated to these elite students. Examples:
> - The group has a special full-time staff member
> just to oversee their academic needs.
> - The entire school's master schedule must
> revolve around their IB Diploma requirements.
> - The one-year philosophical course called Theory
> of Knowledge (TOK) is the catalyst of the DP (TOK
> is an evening class at South Lakes.)
> - Diploma Candidates need to complete 150 hours
> of "Creativity, Action, Service" (CAS) and a
> staff member tracks and documents their
> activities.
>
> ----
> Parents in AP scools might well ask why FCPS fails
> to promote the AP International Diploma. The
> requirements are at least a "3" or above on five
> AP exams:
> - Two AP Exams from two different languages
> selected from English and/OR world languages (so
> English Lit AND English Language covers it - no
> foreign language required)
> - One AP Exam designated as offering a global
> perspective: World History, Human Geography, or
> Government and Politics: Comparative.
> - One exam from the sciences OR math
> - One (or two) additional exam(s) from among any
> content areas except English and world languages.
> They include history and social sciences and
> arts.
> - One more requitrement: "To earn an APID, a
> student attending school within the United States
> must indicate on at least one AP Exam answer sheet
> that the results should be sent to a university
> outside the United States." Bottom line: Students
> at AP schools can also earn, at NO additional cost
> to FCPS, an "International Diploma."

AP/IB Ignoramus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A brief question for all the AP and IB gurus on
> this thread:
>
> From what I've gathered from following a portion
> of this discussion, if you take AP classes and
> pass AP tests you get college credit for these
> classes at whatever university you end up
> attending. I know some will re-take that course
> in college for an easy A but they don't have to.
>
> Conversely, in IB you take IB classes and if you
> pass the test you either don't, or are at least
> less likely in the US, to get college credit for
> it. Taking a number of IB courses and passing
> tests in addition to community service will earn
> you a IB diploma which is unavailable w/AP but
> will the diploma earn you any college credits or
> provide any other benefits after setting foot on
> campus (ie-helps in admission but not much
> afterwards)?
>
> Sorry if this has been covered already, just don't
> have time to go through 160 pages. Thanks.

You could use the "search" function for the forum for that answer. It's a long debate with lots of conflicting info.

Summarily, some/many colleges give advanced placement credit for the IB diploma, most give advanced placement credit for IB HL courses whether taken as part of the diploma program or individually. A few give credit for IB SL courses whether taken as part of the diploma program or individually.

It's really important to contact the colleges a student is interested in and get a detailed answer from them and not rely on the college's website which ted to be a little vague.

SLHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The proposal on the table is a fine one. However,
> I agree that the end product could have been
> better, but certain areas were not on the table,
> and many people decided to create hysteria rather
> than be constructive. In any event, in a perfect
> world the option that makes the most sense in my
> view would be:
>
> Fox Mill to SLHS.
> Crossfield north of West Ox to SLHS.
> Aldrin east of Reston Parkway to SLHS (Aldrin west
> of Res. Pky remain at HHS).
> Langley south of Route 7 and east of Reston
> Parkway to SLHS
> Langley south of Route 7 and west of Reston
> Parkway to HHS
>
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLHS Parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Reston is not a municipality.
> >
> > It will be soon.
> >
> > > It is simply a
> > > homeowners association within Fairfax County.
> >
> > Could you be any more dismissive of Reston.
> Maybe
> > your nic should really be HHS
> >
> > > It's not determinative, and never has been.
> >
> > Only for people who don't respect the Reston
> > community.
> >
> > > There is no valid reason for North Reston
> > students
> > > (Aldrin/Armstrong) not to go to HHS 1 to 3
> > miles
> > > away (as they always have) so as to travel to
> > > SLHS.
> >
> > Except that Aldrin students are closer to SL
> than
> > Forest Edge students and many Armstrong
> students
> > are just as close. Both of those subset of
> > students live in Reston and belong at Reston
> High
> > School - South Lakes
> >
> > > This would also have a ripple effect on
> > > HHS, which is not the primary focus of the
> > > boundary study.
> >
> > Which can be adjusted with McNair, Coopermine
> or
> > even Forestville if this study had been done
> > right.
> >
> > > There also is no valid reason for
> > > Fox Mill students to drive past SLHS in order
> > to
> > > take back roads to Oakton 8 to 10 miles away.
> >
> > They don't. They drive down Lawyers and Vale
> > Road.
> >
> > > I'm sure some have reasons they would want to
> do
> > this,
> > > but none of them are valid from a public
> policy
> > > perspective.
> >
> > Actually maintain coummunities within a
> district
> > is a public policy objective that is given the
> > highest priority by the Supreme Court.
> >
> > Reston kids ar Reston's High School - South
> Lakes

I could have actively supported this proposal. Too bad its too late to make it happen now and probably never had a chance given the promises and deals Stuy made in advance of this process formally beginning.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it so interesting that the SL PTSA and the
> South Lakes Boundary Committee are so enamored
> with Stu Gibson now, and have such a wonderful
> working relationship. I guess Stu had to insure
> the the Langley addition was funded and under
> construction before deciding to pay back the SL
> parents for years of neglect.
>
> This seems to be Stu's MO. 8 years ago, when Stu
> needed children to fill up Westfield, be made a
> very big issue of telling Floris that our future
> was not in Oakton, but that it was to be in the
> West, and this is where we would be going.
>
> It seems now, that we in Floris have contributed
> much to the success of Westfield, we are no longer
> needed, and Stu would like us to fix problems in
> South lakes. I am just stunned that he continues
> to be elected after so many lies.

So have you and your neighbors signed the removal petition yet?

Here's some IB college credit info from the fcps.edu site.

Question: Which Virginia universities provide credit for IB courses, which courses, and what are the criteria?

Answer: All Virginia universities provide credit for IB courses, although they do on different levels. Each school develops its own standards for college credit. There are two sources of information to determine the university recognition at an individual school; the most specific information is available on the university website. Often, the schools list the IB and AP acceptance together. In addition, IB lists a general description of the school’s recognition of IB examinations on their website – http://www.ibo.org/diploma/recognition/. Generalizing, most schools offer credit for HL courses in which a student receives a 5 or higher on the examination. In some cases, such as Virginia Tech, students who receive the diploma are awarded more credit than certificate students; in addition to the HL courses, they receive 3 credits for a “C” or better on their extended essay, 3 credits in philosophy for Theory of Knowledge (“C” or better), and credit for one SL course. As a sample of credits at the University of Virginia, students with a 5, 6, or 7 in the following IB courses receive the corresponding credit: Biology HL (6 credits); English A1 HL (3 credits); History HL (3 credits for a 6 and 6 credits for a 7); Mathematics HL (7 credits); Spanish B (3 credits for a 5 or 6). IB also considers university admission policy as part of the recognition of the program, and the percentage of students accepted into Virginia and most U.S. universities is consistently higher for IB diploma students than the general population.


Question: Do Virginia universities provide as much credit for IB course work as they do for AP course work?

Answer: Students who take an extensive program of studies of AP courses may have the potential of earning more credit since they can take AP examinations at the end of each year while IB HL courses are over 2 years. However, universities are continuing to recognize the IB program and have developed more equitable credit awards in the last 5 years. Students earning the full IB diploma have the potential of earning the greatest number of credits. However, it is important for parents and students to note that both the IB and the AP program prepare our students for success at the university level, and the greatest advantage for students taking advanced academic courses in high school is the high rate of success in college. A study done at a Midwestern university found that the greatest indicator of success at their university was the completion of the IB diploma.


http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/faq.htm#21

So have you and your neighbors signed the removal petition yet?

Yes Thomas More, we have, and hopefully there are others on this Forum who are Hunter Mill registered voters who are also interested in signing the petition,

Our Hunter Mill School Board member Stu Gibson has been found in violation of not upholding student privacy laws and regulations. A number of your Floris and Fox Mill neighbors have initiated a recall petition to have him removed from office. An FCPS parent filed a complaint with the Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) about eight weeks before the November 6, 2007, School Board election. On November 28, an independent VDOE investigator issued findings that both Stu Gibson and FCPS were not in compliance with student privacy laws.

Here are links to two newspaper articles about the complaint and the findings:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=91289&paper=66&cat=104
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2007/dec/04/school-board-battle-rages/



Recalling Stu Gibson is important. It is an attempt to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. In this case, Stu Gibson broke the law. He was found guilty of the violation he should have known better, being a 12 year member of the school board and an attorney. FCPS has since decided not to appeal the findings against him. But, it is the responsibility of the Hunter Mill voters to recall him due to his illegal behavior. If this information was widely available during the campaign, it could have played a large role in deciding the outcome of the election.



We need every Hunter Mill registered vote’s signature. Approximately 2,500 signatures are required. Please seriously consider the issues in this situation.

Thanks for the replies filling me in on AP/IB basics. My oldest is still a few years away from high school so we'll have some time to see how this all shakes out.

And how does this reduce Westfields over enrollment and provide room for the future student expansion near Coppermine?

There is no overenrollment at Westfield. Next year CIP projections are for 3050 students, capacity is 3100.

The overcrowding issue was fabricated by the School Board as a means to keep Langley out of the equation.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious.... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So let me get this straight. We should
> redistrict
> > the schools because a few low income jocks
> can't
> > eat before a football game without depending on
> > another kid's parent?
>
> No one is saying that, troll.


Did you mean that in a pejorative sense, as in:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response.


Please consider another definition:

Someone who is not in a small clique of posters who shout past each other for 160 pages without showing any signs of learning anything or modifying their opinions.


Or perhaps:

One who finds the chase and cuts to it.

IBVerita Wrote:
> BEWARE AP/IB Ignoramus: Forum Reader really
> dislikes IB and has posted much misinformation
> here to discredit it, so take everything this
> person says with a big grain of NaCl.

I have written over and over that the full IB Diploma Programme is great for somewhere about 5-7% of FCPS students. As stated at http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OHSICS/advepd/advepd.htm, "The International Baccalaureate (IB) program provides a comprehensive rigorous education emphasizing analytical thinking, reading and writing skills with an international perspective. It is an advanced level college preparatory program open to highly motivated 11th and 12th grade students who seek academic rigor. A student can earn a full IB diploma by completing courses in 6 areas – English, foreign language, social studies, science, math, and elective. Beyond completing the course requirements, diploma students are required to engage in community service, individual research, and Theory of Knowledge class." I have suggested before and still would like to see an all-IB Diploma high school. So why do you claim Forum Reader "really dislikes IB"? What "misinformation" have you seen me post?

Remember the difference between HL and SL and between full IB Diploma Candidates and certificate-only students. For these other 93% of students, those who are not "highly motivated" and seeking "comprehensive rigorous education emphasizing analytical thinking, reading and writing skills with an international perspective" and/or perhaps are just not up for five years of a foreign language, then the AP program still "provides rigorous academic coursework in the major subject fields, with course content designed at a college level."

And as I have also said over and over, if IB works for your school, as it appears to at Stuart and Marshall, which are other small FCPS IB schools, then great. But don't expect to be able to add a full AP program at South Lakes because, even with more students, the budget won't support it. Even huge Robinson, which is apparently the biggest single IB school in the world, can only support six AP courses, and none of them are AP BC Calculus.

Thus in FCPS high schools, if you want AP, then get rid of IB. Some schools outside of FCPS, like small George Mason in Falls Church, DO have both programs. The difference? George Mason spends $18,474 per pupil and has an average ratio of high school students per classroom teacher of 19.7. In FCPS, average cost per pupil is $13,407 and the average ratio of high school students per classroom teacher ration is 24.1.

Okay, according to NBC news tonight, boys and girls learn better when separated.
So here's Option #9:

Herndon HS: boys
South Lakes HS: girls

Madison HS: boys
Oakton HS: girls

Westfield HS: boys
Chantilly HS: girls ;^)

Any takers?

Dear Floris Parent,

Did you write that you once sold real estate? And if so, what is your opinion of high schools on marketablity of single family homes?

I ask this question because another poster, recently, provided two sources that claim that property values are affected by schools.

And specifically, what do you think might happen to local property values in Floris if schools where redistricted from Westfield to South Lakes?

Thank You

VA Driver, thank you for posting that information about housing values and schools.

I found it informative.

SLHS Parent,

I certainly hope your confidence about housing values and the school district changes prove accurate. Are you an active parent at South Lakes High School?

To Anyone who knows,

What exactly did Stu Gibbson do with this confidential information about a minor?

What are the facts of the case?

Thanks

Oh please I don't want my children going to South Lakes. i would rather them stay at the school there supposed to go to. South Lakes has to many gangs, drugs, sex and violence.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, according to NBC news tonight, boys and
> girls learn better when separated.
> So here's Option #9:
>
> Herndon HS: boys
> South Lakes HS: girls
>
> Madison HS: boys
> Oakton HS: girls
>
> Westfield HS: boys
> Chantilly HS: girls ;^)
>
> Any takers?


OH no, what is option #8?

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Okay, according to NBC news tonight, boys and
> > girls learn better when separated.
> > So here's Option #9:
> >
> > Herndon HS: boys
> > South Lakes HS: girls
> >
> > Madison HS: boys
> > Oakton HS: girls
> >
> > Westfield HS: boys
> > Chantilly HS: girls ;^)
> >
> > Any takers?
>
>
> OH no, what is option #8?

Option #8, my friend, is reserved by a fine gentleman from Madison. I quote him now,

"Option 8 could be all of you assholes stop trying to throw the Madison Island under the bus to South Lakes as it is mostly located within Vienna not Reston say for example like North Point. If the so called Madison Island consisted of townhouses and apartments filled with lower income families would all the hipocrites in Reston still be standing on thier soapbox crying to eliminate Islands? I think not. Thats what makes the process so unfair. Nobody within the so called Island wants anything to do with the IB program that I have talked to. So please find another neighborhood to try to rip apart. I recommend next time you buy a house do your homework and not buy one in a shitty school pyramid then you will not need other people to bail you out."

Ergo, I took Option #9.

AP/IB Ignoramus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A brief question for all the AP and IB gurus on
> this thread:
>
> From what I've gathered from following a portion
> of this discussion, if you take AP classes and
> pass AP tests you get college credit for these
> classes at whatever university you end up
> attending. I know some will re-take that course
> in college for an easy A but they don't have to.
>
> Conversely, in IB you take IB classes and if you
> pass the test you either don't, or are at least
> less likely in the US, to get college credit for
> it. Taking a number of IB courses and passing
> tests in addition to community service will earn
> you a IB diploma which is unavailable w/AP but
> will the diploma earn you any college credits or
> provide any other benefits after setting foot on
> campus (ie-helps in admission but not much
> afterwards)?
>

If it's an AP class, depending on the on AP exam score and on the college, you may get credit, may get placed in advanced courses, or nothing. If it's an IB HL class, it's about the same, but if it's an SL class, it's less likely that you will get credit unless you complete the Diploma. Note, since students are limited to 4 IB HL classes (even under the Diploma) were AP is unlimited, it's harder to pile up college credits under IB if that matters to you.

Bulldog Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone who feels that way should sign the Stu
> Gibson recall petition. It's time to get him off
> the school board.

The basis of the recall petition is Stu's treatment of personal privacy information of a student during the election campaign. The basis is explicitly not this redistricting mess, do not confuse the two issues.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>>
> So have you and your neighbors signed the removal
> petition yet?


I might buy a house in Hunter Mill just so I can sign the petition.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no overenrollment at Westfield. Next year
> CIP projections are for 3050 students, capacity is
> 3100.

And they go down from there to about 2900 by 2012.

>
> The overcrowding issue was fabricated by the
> School Board as a means to keep Langley out of the
> equation.

With, of course, the "unfortunate" wording in the CIP about there being no nearby schools that were under capacity...

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious.... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So let me get this straight. We should
> redistrict
> > the schools because a few low income jocks
> can't
> > eat before a football game without depending on
> > another kid's parent?
>
> No one is saying that, troll.
>
> But thanks for pointing out how far off topic this
> exchange had gotten.


Troll? Actually, I'm quite a hot P.O.A. But thanks for playing!

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Berdhuis Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Okay, according to NBC news tonight, boys and
> > > girls learn better when separated.
> > > So here's Option #9:
> > >
> > > Herndon HS: boys
> > > South Lakes HS: girls
> > >
> > > Madison HS: boys
> > > Oakton HS: girls
> > >
> > > Westfield HS: boys
> > > Chantilly HS: girls ;^)
> > >
> > > Any takers?
> >
> >
> > OH no, what is option #8?
>
> Option #8, my friend, is reserved by a fine
> gentleman from Madison. I quote him now,
>
> "Option 8 could be all of you assholes stop trying
> to throw the Madison Island under the bus to South
> Lakes as it is mostly located within Vienna not
> Reston say for example like North Point. If the so
> called Madison Island consisted of townhouses and
> apartments filled with lower income families would
> all the hipocrites in Reston still be standing on
> thier soapbox crying to eliminate Islands? I think
> not. Thats what makes the process so unfair.
> Nobody within the so called Island wants anything
> to do with the IB program that I have talked to.
> So please find another neighborhood to try to rip
> apart. I recommend next time you buy a house do
> your homework and not buy one in a shitty school
> pyramid then you will not need other people to
> bail you out."
>
> Ergo, I took Option #9.


Ahh ok now I remember this post. Thanks--Let us know what option #10 would be then.

This is true. I was referring to his behavior towards students in his district. All part and parsel of the kind of man who is representing us on the school board. I could be fired on the spot (I am an RN) if I did what he did. Confidentiality should be taken seriously.

I was checking out some of the other threads on this BBS. I found one about one of the schools involved in this redistricting --infact several.

A poster suggested that interested people take a look at:

http://www.greatschools.net/

Interested readers can compare SOL scores between schools and the scores are even broken down by participants and subject material.

I opened up two web pages and compared two school side by side.

It seems the behavior of SL Parent (infuriating the masses) has caused the usual SL hacks (SL Verity, SL Padre, Pyramid, etc) to put a sock in their tiresome mantra.

Well done SL Parent.

Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was checking out some of the other threads on
> this BBS. I found one about one of the schools
> involved in this redistricting --infact several.
>
> A poster suggested that interested people take a
> look at:
>
> http://www.greatschools.net/
>
> Interested readers can compare SOL scores between
> schools and the scores are even broken down by
> participants and subject material.
>
> I opened up two web pages and compared two school
> side by side.


Thanks. I was just at the website and pulled one of the reviews submitted by a student posted on July 28, 2006 from SL (I doublechecked the posting date). Apparently this has been discussed way before the boundary study even started.:

"This school currently under renovation will expand its boundaries after the completion of its contruction which means for an increase in the enrollment from 1,400 to 2,000. That means south herndon kids will be attending this school. Maybe finally this school will get a break from its lack in extracurricular activities, parent involvment, and MAYBE safety and security. We are in for an energized school spirit!
Submitted by a student"

Baffled,

Actually, I went to a high school that was far more dangerous than South Lakes. We had a full-time police/truant officer at the school. The kids called him "Cannon" after the television series of the the same name. We had one Vice Principal we called, if memory serves, "Keys." When he walked through the halls he shook the keys in his pants so all who were up to no good could hear him comming down the hall. And back then, the bathrooms where broken up by ethnic groups. There was always fights. Truants constantly snuck away from school.

Some "friends" would meet and form groups for what was called "stick fights" just off the school grounds. Basically, gangs or teams would be formed and each side would gather sticks, small loggs, and the like. Then the teams would start hurlling these objects at one another.

[I am not advocating this by the way. I hate that movie "Jack Ass." I will not let my son watch it.]

Cigerrette smoking, as well as other substance abuse, was rampant and the most important thing was having a friend of the opposite gender. Some members of the football team took speed.

So I am very parinoid about the quality of a high school, how children get along, and how they perform on tests. No one did well on tests who where in the stick fight crowd for example.

Now I haven't read anything that bad about South Lakes. But I did read one post by a young women on another thread on this BBS whose story appeared realistic and as I recall she was sprayed with ketchup and called names because she wasn't interested in persuing the romantic scene. I believe her parents put her in private school and she was greatful. I have not heard any stories like this from my son about his high school and I am glad.

It is easy for a young person to get lost with the wrong crowd as we all know. My approach has been to surround my son with the right crowd so that he gains "positive" peer pressure.

Baffled,

Interesting about the posting date on that one. And thank you for your reply to my post.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad had the best suggestion:
>
> Forestville to Herndon
> Armstrong and Aldrin to South Lakes
>
> Use the millions saved by cancelling the Langley
> addition to bus kids around for a few years.
>
> Westfield, Oakton and Chantilly will be under the
> cap in a few years.

I agree, it's a good plan but it doesn't reduce enrollment at Chantilly and Westfield, which Stu and Kathy say is necessary.

>>>Oh my goshh--what did you just say? You are saying Fox Mill is being snatched to benefit South Lakes?..<<<<

Welll......yes. The redistricting is being done to benefit South Lakes.

>>>Sorry, VaDriver, but your argument is built upon a logical fallacy. Even if one were to believe that there is a 19% difference in the home values in an average school district and an excellent one, that is of no moment here. Why? Because redistricting will not transform Oakton or Westfield into merely average schools, and South Lakes is not an average school now and certainly will not be after redistricting.<<<

You have missed the point. Floris and Fox Mill will lose property values because they are leaving one of the best schools in the county for one that is below average in this county. The studies compare schools in the same area, not schools in New York vs Arkansas. VADriver was doing the same in THIS county. Leaving a good school, like Oakton, to go to a below average school, like South Lakes will lower houses values in that redistricted neighborhood by 9 to 19%.

I am surprised that you believe that even after the boundary change South Lakes will continue to be one of the schools on the bottom, although I think you will be correct since this awful process will result in so fews kids who will go to South Lakes and those students will be the kids on the bottom without other options. It's a shame for everyone, all this trouble, for nothing.

I object to your 2 or 3 rabid dissastisfied IB parents. My "genius" son who has never scored more than high average is all of a sudden in 4 honors classes at Hughes, all reccommendations from his teacher, all a's and a few b's. Obviously my son was told he was an all honors student at Hughes. So he became more of a genius and became all pre-IB at Southlakes. All of a sudden, his grades tanked and I now have to transfer him to a school with more than 2 tracks. Elite track vs. everyone else. My son was kept at SLHS in order to improve their socioeconomic balance. I'm sure they know he's a good solid student; not a genius. The administration has now convinced him that he is a loser and has completely destroyed his motivation. IB classes are sooooo difficult and not appropriate unless a child is gifted in a particular area. Some very few kids Love IB; they are the geniuses who need the challenge. The other "IB" students are unqualified to be in those classes, but chose them since regular classes at SLHS are often filled with gangs. Average children chose IB and try to figure out ways to beat the system. Southlakes doesn't care about students; only schools and rankings. I will never send any of my younger children to that school.

SLHS Parent wrote:

"You should all be ashamed of yourselves for stoking discord in the community
by appealing to the worse angels of our nature - fear and elitism."
_________________________

BirdLover wrote:

"I remember reading about black mothers, in the South Bronx, who, worried about their children in public schools, were determined to place them in Catholic schools. There were some mothers in the area who thought these women were ‘uppity’.

Now we know. They weren’t uppity; they were elitists."
___________________________

SLHS Parent wrote:

"Sorry Birdlover, it's apples and oranges. A mother seeking admittance for her child into a private school as a way out of a failing public school is not the same as a parent asking the public school system not to redistrict his or her child from one good school to another good school."
___________________________

Sorry, SLHS Parent, you don't make sense.

Back where I come from, we have universities--seats of great learning–-where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out they think deep thoughts with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven’t got–-a diploma. Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by Universitatis Commitatibus E Pluribus Unum, I hereby confer on you the honorary degree of Th.D, Doctor of Thinkology.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, according to NBC news tonight, boys and
> girls learn better when separated.
> So here's Option #9:
>
> Herndon HS: boys
> South Lakes HS: girls
>
> Madison HS: boys
> Oakton HS: girls
>
> Westfield HS: boys
> Chantilly HS: girls ;^)
>
> Any takers?

Fine with me. Good luck getting the students to support it!