So is anyone watching the SB meeting? Did they modify Phil's motion locking IB in at SL for 5 years?

"For the current families in this area of Floris , Fox Mill and MI moving is the only long term viable option. "

Take a look around the Fox Mill area (around Fox Mill shopping center, natually enough) and you'll see a large number of homes for sale.

Some Fox Mill houses for sale:

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=1&lid=1096132220&lsn=3&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=1&lid=1090854966&lsn=4&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=1&lid=1095870501&lsn=8&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=1&lid=1090236372&lsn=9&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=1&lid=1093816068&lsn=10&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=2&lid=1086843134&lsn=12&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=2&lid=1096101237&lsn=15&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=2&lid=1089685970&lsn=16&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=2&lid=1075870413&lsn=19&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=3&lid=1096455156&lsn=23&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=3&lid=1093194502&lsn=26&srcnt=135#Detail


http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=3&lid=1093062167&lsn=27&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=3&lid=1097072487&lsn=29&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=4&lid=1096512859&lsn=31&srcnt=135#Detail

http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d&pg=4&lid=1095477849&lsn=32&srcnt=135#Detail

These are the ones under $500,000K. I went through the first four pages of 14 pages of single family homes for sale in 20171. You get the idea I think.

Oakton Parent,

Your first listing is not Fox Mill but Glenbrooke Woods which is a Crossfield/Carson/Oakton district. It's easy to find a bargain price home outside a SL district. The hard part is selling your current home.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "For the current families in this area of Floris ,
> Fox Mill and MI moving is the only long term
> viable option. "
>
> Take a look around the Fox Mill area (around Fox
> Mill shopping center, natually enough) and you'll
> see a large number of homes for sale.



Considering the likely bath one will take on price, it might be cheaper to send the kids to private school.

AFMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent,
>
> Your first listing is not Fox Mill but Glenbrooke
> Woods which is a Crossfield/Carson/Oakton
> district. It's easy to find a bargain price home
> outside a SL district. The hard part is selling
> your current home.


So does that mean that homes nthe SL area are higher priced?

About five years ago, I was told by somebody who had worked in the IB Organization headquarters, etc. that South Lakes had the best or one of the best IB art departments in the United States.

SO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so what is the reputation of SLHSs art department

Paranoia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AFMD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oakton Parent,
> >
> > Your first listing is not Fox Mill but
> Glenbrooke
> > Woods which is a Crossfield/Carson/Oakton
> > district. It's easy to find a bargain price
> home
> > outside a SL district. The hard part is
> selling
> > your current home.
>
>
> So does that mean that homes nthe SL area are
> higher priced?

Probably not, SL district homes are probably as depressed as any other in the area. The house next door to the one I pointed out above is in foreclosure. There is another $600k+ home in foreclosure a couple of blocks away, also in the Crossfield/Carson/Oakton district.

You have to compare equivalent houses. For Simillar houses, the one in a good school district will have a higher price - it is not difficult to see why - good school district ( higher scores and rating ) means more people want to move in there - means more demand - Simple law of supply and demand.

Paranoia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AFMD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oakton Parent,
> >
> > Your first listing is not Fox Mill but
> Glenbrooke
> > Woods which is a Crossfield/Carson/Oakton
> > district. It's easy to find a bargain price
> home
> > outside a SL district. The hard part is
> selling
> > your current home.
>
>
> So does that mean that homes nthe SL area are
> higher priced?

move Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to compare equivalent houses. For
> Simillar houses, the one in a good school district
> will have a higher price - it is not difficult to
> see why - good school district ( higher scores and
> rating ) means more people want to move in there -
> means more demand - Simple law of supply and
> demand.

I can just hear that former homeowner say as he's desparately trying to avoid foreclosure, "BUT I'M STILL IN A CROSSFIELD/CARSON/OAKTON DISTRICT!" Sure, it's supply and demand but there is a ton of supply vs very little demand right now and nobody can blame the SB for that.

disgrace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Hughes Middle School
> >
> > Did not make AYP and is in Year 4
> >
> > 34% of African American students failed the 7th
> > grade reading tests-this is well above state
> > averages.
> > 70% of African American students failed the 7th
> > grade math tests-this is also well above state
> > averages.
> > 69% of Latino students failed the 7th grade
> math
> > tests-well above VA averages.
> > 45% of African American students failed the 8th
> > grade reading tests-a failure rate 45% higher
> than
> > VA averages.
> > 1 out of 3 African American students failed the
> > 8th grade science tests-this failure rate
> DOUBLED
> > from the prior year.
> > In virtually every category, students with
> > disabilities at this school failed at a rate
> > higher than VA averages"
> >
>
>
> and this is the school into which the SB annexed
> Madison North and then closed Thoreau to pupil
> placement to make sure all of the kids have to go
>
> Janie should be ashamed of herself

So should the SB. They closed Thoreau for pupil placement to force the Madison kids to go to Hughes. They need their scores at Hughes.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some Fox Mill houses for sale:
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1096132220&lsn=3&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1090854966&lsn=4&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1095870501&lsn=8&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1090236372&lsn=9&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1093816068&lsn=10&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1086843134&lsn=12&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1096101237&lsn=15&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1089685970&lsn=16&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1075870413&lsn=19&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1096455156&lsn=23&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1093194502&lsn=26&srcnt=135#Detail
>
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1093062167&lsn=27&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1097072487&lsn=29&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=4&lid=1096512859&lsn=31&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=4&lid=1095477849&lsn=32&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> These are the ones under $500,000K. I went
> through the first four pages of 14 pages of single
> family homes for sale in 20171. You get the idea
> I think.


WOW! That's amazing. There are some really good buys in there.

What happened at the school board meeting tonight? Any mention of South Lakes?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leave_us_alone Wrote:
> > Ditch IB for AP and we will gladly come to SL.
> > But don't ask us to come first and then work
> > towards replacing IB. These are valuable years
> of
> > our Children's education and we can't waste
> them
> > hoping Stu Gibson and SL PTSA will have change
> of
> > heart.
>
> The only AP course I see in the SLHS catalog for
> next year is AP Government. Questions for South
> Lakers:
> 1) Are there any other AP courses at SLHS next
> year that I missed?
> 2) It is NOT clear from the South Lakes guide that
> pre-IB students may take AP Government. It would
> make makes sense to have a combined Pre-IB/AP
> Government class - that is how it is done at
> Robinson - but these two courses are listed as
> separate courses at SLHS. Does anyone know why?
> 3) Why not offer Pre-AP World Civ at SLHS this
> fall?
> 4) Did the plan to offer AP Human Geography get
> dropped?

I would imagine they ditched it when they learned that no one wanted to take it.

Interested Party Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have any of the kids who were RDed into SL and
> turned in a PP form had their "interview" with
> Butler? Is he moving on those forms or holding
> onto them? Can he arbitrarily reject them or does
> he need to move them?
>
> The RCMS teachers gave the kids recommendation
> forms for HS classes -- if the teachers didn't
> recommend a Pre-AP or Honors course, can a parent
> legitimately argue that they want AP for their
> kid?
>
> I would appreciate any guidance anyone has.
>
> Thanks.

Yes, AP classes are open enrollment. Once your child is enrolled in an AP school, no teacher recommendations are needed for AP. If you think that your child will do well in a particular Honors class, sign her up!

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I won't have access to Red Apple 21 tonight and
> > hope others will tune in and post what if
> anything
> > the worthies do to rebut the conclusion I
> posted
> > that Phil was locking IB in at SL for the next
> 5
> > years.
> >
> > They can reconsider it tonight because it's the
> > first business meeting of the full board since
> > Phil's motion passed.
> >
> > It will also be interesting to hear if the SB
> has
> > fixed the sound system.
>
>
> I don't know about others but I was really upset
> with how SB members trivialized the AP/IB issue at
> Feb 28th meeting. Stu just dismisses it but I
> thought other board members will be more
> understanding towards it. Other than Tina Hone
> and Raney, others either did not understand the
> issue or they understood it but chose to ignore
> it.

They are ignoring the concern because they like IB better than AP and they don't care what anyone else prefers.

moving Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the current families in this area of Floris ,
> Fox Mill and MI moving is the only long term
> viable option. When the existing families move
> away, their houses will be bought by people who
> know that it feeds into SL and are ok with that.
> More than likely these area will gray out just
> like reston, as families with children will avoid
> it. But since this area is centrally located,
> there will be lot of other people who do not have
> school age kids that will move in the area.
>
Hasn't Reston been moving toward that for the last 5 to 10 years, building more apartments, condos, and townhouses? Those appeal to single people and married people without children. Isn't that a new goal of Reston, to make it more urban and attract more singles and those without children?

Many people move to Reston before they have children and then move on when their children approach middle school, or even earlier. I expect this trend will continue, particularly since South Lakes is locked into IB for the foreseeable future.

I agree AP credit would have been nice to have but remember it generally gets you out of only freshman classes or intro level classes, so your daughters were able to do that any college is going to make you take a 300 level class no matter what you did in high school, unless you actually took classes at a college in high school

you know whats funny about this, is if you use the boundery locator on the fcps web site, all of these adresses are still listed as being in Oakton and not SouthLakes, so if someone from out of state who was buying a home and idnt notice what was goig on would think they are in Oakton







Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some Fox Mill houses for sale:
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1096132220&lsn=3&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1090854966&lsn=4&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1095870501&lsn=8&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1090236372&lsn=9&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1093816068&lsn=10&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1086843134&lsn=12&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1096101237&lsn=15&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1089685970&lsn=16&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1075870413&lsn=19&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1096455156&lsn=23&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1093194502&lsn=26&srcnt=135#Detail
>
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1093062167&lsn=27&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1097072487&lsn=29&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=4&lid=1096512859&lsn=31&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=4&lid=1095477849&lsn=32&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> These are the ones under $500,000K. I went
> through the first four pages of 14 pages of single
> family homes for sale in 20171. You get the idea
> I think.

Floris Mom of 16 years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To AP vs. IB:
>
> Yes, if there had been an AP Japanese exam, and if
> they had passed with a 4 or 5, they would have
> been exempt from their foreign language
> requirements at both UVA and JMU. As you can see
> from the description of the Course and Exam, it is
> equivalent to a 300 level college course.
>
> Without the AP test, there was no way to exempt
> them, even though both had studied Japanese for 12
> years. There was only a placement test at the
> university itself.

Oh, no I understood the value of the AP test, I was asking because I thought (the way I read your post) as that if they had the AP in addition to the placement test they could have placed out or at different level.

Conceivably the placement test also could have placed them out too, correct? Or do placement tests at universities only place you in a level, never out of the course entirely?

When I was in a university I knew a number of people who placed out of a foreign language requirement due to the placement test itself, no AP exams, and I am asking to see if that has changed in any way, now that there are so many AP courses/exams offered nationally.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So is anyone watching the SB meeting? Did they
> modify Phil's motion locking IB in at SL for 5
> years?


I turned the tv on around 9 pm and the rest of the time the sb did not talk about SL. I don't know if they talked about Phil's motion for locking IB in at SL earlier in the meeting. Kathy did look very cheerful and Stu was Stu.

What did the FCPS school board do to fix under capacity at South Lakes?

Their answer to this problem was to redistrict schools to fill empty seats at South Lakes.

Thousands of parents were against this, but the SB went ahead anyway.

So this now becomes the standard for the SB to redistrict. RIGHT?

Now the SB has under capacity problems at Lake Braddock HS after millions of dollars to renovate and enlarge this school.

At the same time, they have over capacity at South County Secondary School, so what is the SB plan to fill over five hundread empty seats at LB?

Their plan is to build a new middle school in South County so that they do not have to redistrict SCSS because of politics and favoritism.

Their plan is to spend millions of dollars on a school that is not needed, when they should save money and redistrict students into LB.

How come they do not use the same standard that they used at South Lakes at Lake Braddock?

They need to answer these questions before they spend one dollar on this new school. Are they going to leap ahead with this new middle school and put other schools who are ahead of them on the capital improvement projects? WHY?

Every person in Fairfax County must become a watchdog of the FCPS system so that we have oversight of what they are doing and who they are impacting.

Call or email the school board to stop this new middle school and redistrict South County Secondary School.

WATCHDOG

“Their plan is to build a new middle school in South County so that they do not have to redistrict SCSS because of politics and favoritism.”

No, the SB members will hold a boundary study next year for the South County area, and yes they will use the under capacity seats at Lake Braddock and Hayfield. Both of these schools are under capacity and both schools can help the over capacity at South County. Hayfield is in need of students, they need students just like Mount Vernon. Both of these schools are hurting and could use students. They did it for South Lakes, the SB should do it for Hayfield and Mount Vernon. No new middle school is needed for South County when three schools have empty seats.

I declare this forum to be "almost dead". Participation is left to only a few at this point. A good thing though considering how RD took control of our lives for the past five months. Time to move on.

Is it not true that the SB approved last month, two million dollars in order to move ahead with the site plans for the new middle school?


noms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “Their plan is to build a new middle school in
> South County so that they do not have to
> redistrict SCSS because of politics and
> favoritism.”
>
> No, the SB members will hold a boundary study next
> year for the South County area, and yes they will
> use the under capacity seats at Lake Braddock and
> Hayfield. Both of these schools are under capacity
> and both schools can help the over capacity at
> South County. Hayfield is in need of students,
> they need students just like Mount Vernon. Both of
> these schools are hurting and could use students.
> They did it for South Lakes, the SB should do it
> for Hayfield and Mount Vernon. No new middle
> school is needed for South County when three
> schools have empty seats.

People need to testify at the Board of Supervisors budget hearings on this issue and costs of IB v AP.

People should also sign up to speak at school board meetings for citizen participation. 1 spoke last night and I am surprised that Floris did not fill the slots on South County Middle school.

Other areas forced into political boundary changes over the years include Kilmer GT center kids from Vienna now bussed to Jackson. They got bumped out of Vienna for the Great falls schools [even the ones bussed through Hughes attendance area].



WATCHDOG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did the FCPS school board do to fix under
> capacity at South Lakes?
>
> Their answer to this problem was to redistrict
> schools to fill empty seats at South Lakes.
>
> Thousands of parents were against this, but the SB
> went ahead anyway.
>
> So this now becomes the standard for the SB to
> redistrict. RIGHT?
>
> Now the SB has under capacity problems at Lake
> Braddock HS after millions of dollars to renovate
> and enlarge this school.
>
> At the same time, they have over capacity at South
> County Secondary School, so what is the SB plan to
> fill over five hundread empty seats at LB?
>
> Their plan is to build a new middle school in
> South County so that they do not have to
> redistrict SCSS because of politics and
> favoritism.
>
> Their plan is to spend millions of dollars on a
> school that is not needed, when they should save
> money and redistrict students into LB.
>
> How come they do not use the same standard that
> they used at South Lakes at Lake Braddock?
>
> They need to answer these questions before they
> spend one dollar on this new school. Are they
> going to leap ahead with this new middle school
> and put other schools who are ahead of them on the
> capital improvement projects? WHY?
>
> Every person in Fairfax County must become a
> watchdog of the FCPS system so that we have
> oversight of what they are doing and who they are
> impacting.
>
> Call or email the school board to stop this new
> middle school and redistrict South County
> Secondary School.
>
> WATCHDOG

Facts,

They will not have the money, and if enough people complain to the SB, they will use the seats at Lake Braddock and Hayfield. They should include Mount Vernon in the study next year. They will hold a boundary study next year to remove students from South County to Lake Braddock and Hayfield, the school is way over capacity. They have to redistrict that area because South County can not function properly with that many students. Use all empty seats: Hayfield, Mt. Vernon and Lake Braddock. Let the SB know seats need to be used at Hayfield, Mt. Vernon and Lake Braddock.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People need to testify at the Board of Supervisors
> budget hearings on this issue and costs of IB v
> AP.
>
> People should also sign up to speak at school
> board meetings for citizen participation. 1 spoke
> last night and I am surprised that Floris did not
> fill the slots on South County Middle school.
>
> Other areas forced into political boundary changes
> over the years include Kilmer GT center kids from
> Vienna now bussed to Jackson. They got bumped out
> of Vienna for the Great falls schools .
>
>
>
> WATCHDOG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What did the FCPS school board do to fix under
> > capacity at South Lakes?
> >
> > Their answer to this problem was to redistrict
> > schools to fill empty seats at South Lakes.
> >
> > Thousands of parents were against this, but the
> SB
> > went ahead anyway.
> >
> > So this now becomes the standard for the SB to
> > redistrict. RIGHT?
> >
> > Now the SB has under capacity problems at Lake
> > Braddock HS after millions of dollars to
> renovate
> > and enlarge this school.
> >
> > At the same time, they have over capacity at
> South
> > County Secondary School, so what is the SB plan
> to
> > fill over five hundread empty seats at LB?
> >
> > Their plan is to build a new middle school in
> > South County so that they do not have to
> > redistrict SCSS because of politics and
> > favoritism.
> >
> > Their plan is to spend millions of dollars on a
> > school that is not needed, when they should
> save
> > money and redistrict students into LB.
> >
> > How come they do not use the same standard that
> > they used at South Lakes at Lake Braddock?
> >
> > They need to answer these questions before they
> > spend one dollar on this new school. Are they
> > going to leap ahead with this new middle school
> > and put other schools who are ahead of them on
> the
> > capital improvement projects? WHY?
> >
> > Every person in Fairfax County must become a
> > watchdog of the FCPS system so that we have
> > oversight of what they are doing and who they
> are
> > impacting.
> >
> > Call or email the school board to stop this new
> > middle school and redistrict South County
> > Secondary School.
> >
> > WATCHDOG

The whackjob that spoke last night also happens to be Watchdog and Facts and posts here regularly under various names...very scary dude. I watched his rant last night on cable.

I don't doubt that the SL Art Department is very good. But so is Westfield's AND Westfield's Art Department offers three AP Art classes: AP Art History (which can be taken as a sophomore), AP Art Drawing Portfolio, and AP Art 2-D Design Portfolio. This is a goldmine to kids interested in pursuing art at the university level. Will all three of these AP Art classes be on SL's short list for the near future??? Setting all emotions aside, if you put SL and Westfield's Art course offerings side by side, I would dare say that Westfield's is better, simply because of the college level courses offered. Serious art students would get more bang for their buck, as it were, can take rigorous courses where their heart and interests lie, can earn college credit and jumpstart their college career.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some Fox Mill houses for sale:
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1096132220&lsn=3&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1090854966&lsn=4&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1095870501&lsn=8&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1090236372&lsn=9&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1093816068&lsn=10&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1086843134&lsn=12&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1096101237&lsn=15&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1089685970&lsn=16&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=2&lid=1075870413&lsn=19&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1096455156&lsn=23&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1093194502&lsn=26&srcnt=135#Detail
>
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1093062167&lsn=27&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=3&lid=1097072487&lsn=29&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=4&lid=1096512859&lsn=31&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=4&lid=1095477849&lsn=32&srcnt=135#Detail
>
> These are the ones under $500,000K. I went
> through the first four pages of 14 pages of single
> family homes for sale in 20171. You get the idea
> I think.


Does any realtor no how this compares to last year at this time the two neighbors I have moving have no kids

Does anyone know who has the best special ed department Oakton, southlakes ,chanitlly or westfields.
Thanks

Truthteller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > People need to testify at the Board of
> Supervisors
> > budget hearings on this issue and costs of IB v
> > AP.
> >
> > People should also sign up to speak at school
> > board meetings for citizen participation. 1
> spoke
> > last night and I am surprised that Floris did
> not
> > fill the slots on South County Middle school.
> >
> > Other areas forced into political boundary
> changes
> > over the years include Kilmer GT center kids
> from
> > Vienna now bussed to Jackson. They got bumped
> out
> > of Vienna for the Great falls schools .
> >
> >
> >
> > WATCHDOG Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What did the FCPS school board do to fix
> under
> > > capacity at South Lakes?
> > >
> > > Their answer to this problem was to
> redistrict
> > > schools to fill empty seats at South Lakes.
> > >
> > > Thousands of parents were against this, but
> the
> > SB
> > > went ahead anyway.
> > >
> > > So this now becomes the standard for the SB
> to
> > > redistrict. RIGHT?
> > >
> > > Now the SB has under capacity problems at
> Lake
> > > Braddock HS after millions of dollars to
> > renovate
> > > and enlarge this school.
> > >
> > > At the same time, they have over capacity at
> > South
> > > County Secondary School, so what is the SB
> plan
> > to
> > > fill over five hundread empty seats at LB?
> > >
> > > Their plan is to build a new middle school in
> > > South County so that they do not have to
> > > redistrict SCSS because of politics and
> > > favoritism.
> > >
> > > Their plan is to spend millions of dollars on
> a
> > > school that is not needed, when they should
> > save
> > > money and redistrict students into LB.
> > >
> > > How come they do not use the same standard
> that
> > > they used at South Lakes at Lake Braddock?
> > >
> > > They need to answer these questions before
> they
> > > spend one dollar on this new school. Are they
> > > going to leap ahead with this new middle
> school
> > > and put other schools who are ahead of them
> on
> > the
> > > capital improvement projects? WHY?
> > >
> > > Every person in Fairfax County must become a
> > > watchdog of the FCPS system so that we have
> > > oversight of what they are doing and who they
> > are
> > > impacting.
> > >
> > > Call or email the school board to stop this
> new
> > > middle school and redistrict South County
> > > Secondary School.
> > >
> > > WATCHDOG
>
> The whackjob that spoke last night also happens to
> be Watchdog and Facts and posts here regularly
> under various names...very scary dude. I watched
> his rant last night on cable.



Whack job or not, the guy is right. you are wrong. just exactly how much of this wasteless crap do county residents allow the school board to reign over. It is residents like Watchdog and others that care about the school board's actions and unaccountable use of our tax money, that provide the oversight to those actions and use.

Floris Mom of 16 Years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't doubt that the SL Art Department is very
> good. But so is Westfield's AND Westfield's Art
> Department offers three AP Art classes: AP Art
> History (which can be taken as a sophomore), AP
> Art Drawing Portfolio, and AP Art 2-D Design
> Portfolio. This is a goldmine to kids interested
> in pursuing art at the university level. Will all
> three of these AP Art classes be on SL's short
> list for the near future??? Setting all emotions
> aside, if you put SL and Westfield's Art course
> offerings side by side, I would dare say that
> Westfield's is better, simply because of the
> college level courses offered. Serious art
> students would get more bang for their buck, as it
> were, can take rigorous courses where their heart
> and interests lie, can earn college credit and
> jumpstart their college career.


Maybe attendance being higher at westfields? could they offer more courses because there are more kids there?

Maybe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Mom of 16 Years Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't doubt that the SL Art Department is
> very
> > good. But so is Westfield's AND Westfield's
> Art
> > Department offers three AP Art classes: AP Art
> > History (which can be taken as a sophomore), AP
> > Art Drawing Portfolio, and AP Art 2-D Design
> > Portfolio. This is a goldmine to kids
> interested
> > in pursuing art at the university level. Will
> all
> > three of these AP Art classes be on SL's short
> > list for the near future??? Setting all
> emotions
> > aside, if you put SL and Westfield's Art course
> > offerings side by side, I would dare say that
> > Westfield's is better, simply because of the
> > college level courses offered. Serious art
> > students would get more bang for their buck, as
> it
> > were, can take rigorous courses where their
> heart
> > and interests lie, can earn college credit and
> > jumpstart their college career.
>
>
> Maybe attendance being higher at westfields? could
> they offer more courses because there are more
> kids there?


Not every high school whether small or large can have all the courses every student requests.

noms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “Their plan is to build a new middle school in
> South County so that they do not have to
> redistrict SCSS because of politics and
> favoritism.”
>
> No, the SB members will hold a boundary study next
> year for the South County area, and yes they will
> use the under capacity seats at Lake Braddock and
> Hayfield. Both of these schools are under capacity
> and both schools can help the over capacity at
> South County. Hayfield is in need of students,
> they need students just like Mount Vernon. Both of
> these schools are hurting and could use students.
> They did it for South Lakes, the SB should do it
> for Hayfield and Mount Vernon. No new middle
> school is needed for South County when three
> schools have empty seats.


All the SS's (LBSS, SCSS and Hayfield) have AP programs and comparable curriculums so the redistricting shouldn't be that difficult much like it has been for SL because of the AP vs IB issue and other issues such as picking certain communities to go to SL when any community surrounding around SL could have gone there. This RD was different and now people are moving on making plans with moving, pupil placing or sending their redistricted kids to SL, etc.

I don't doubt that because of Westfield's population, it can offer more classes. However, SL does not and apparently will not offer APs in such a variety or number in the near future. Westfield's courses are established and currently available. So the Floris kids are being asked to trade a wide variety of established APs for possibly one at SL next year. . .am I hearing AP Government?

Robinson is a secondary school, and it also is an IB school.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the SS's (LBSS, SCSS and Hayfield) have AP
> programs and comparable curriculums so the
> redistricting shouldn't be that difficult much
> like it has been for SL because of the AP vs IB
> issue and other issues such as picking certain
> communities to go to SL when any community
> surrounding around SL could have gone there.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robinson is a secondary school, and it also is an
> IB school.
>
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All the SS's (LBSS, SCSS and Hayfield) have AP
> > programs and comparable curriculums so the
> > redistricting shouldn't be that difficult much
> > like it has been for SL because of the AP vs IB
> > issue and other issues such as picking certain
> > communities to go to SL when any community
> > surrounding around SL could have gone there.


I meant the ones the SB is going to do a boundary study on. I am aware Robinson is a SS and has an IB program. Robinson is not part of the boundary study for next year, is it?

noms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Facts,
>
> They will not have the money, and if enough people
> complain to the SB, they will use the seats at
> Lake Braddock and Hayfield. They should include
> Mount Vernon in the study next year...

Problem is that anyone who speaks up alone is called a whack job. Like the 2 cell tower people -- get a bunch to sign petitions and the school board listens. The south county thing is pandering all the way up to Tom Davis. Ironically some of the worst political spending has been Republican for these schools -- they started the Langley stuff.

If the guy was such a whack job FCPS would not have been communicating on the athletic BS. Fairfax caps should have been there. Problem is that most people don't care about anything other than the bus arriving and where it goes.

Most people are too busy commuting, earning money, shuttling around kids, to get involved. Others don't want to get involved for fear of retaliation or offending people.

As Gibson said during the last South County process, he has the right to speak up since he is the Hunter Mill rep on the Fairfax County school board not the Hunter Mill school board.

Now I hope he takes a stand -- what does he have to lose? Except for Center-Lee, Bradsher-Springfield, Storck-Mount Vernon, what other school board members live down there? Wait-Moon used to be Braddock before he got beat by Wilson and took a sabbatical. Hone-Raney are in Providence. Her mouth was going in favor of SC Middle school in January.

So that leaves 12 less 5 [Center,Moon, Wilson, Bradsher,Storck] for 7 remaining. Stuck Wilson on that list since her Lake Braddockers might like the luxury of severely undercapcity school. Who would vote to move to Lake Braddock? Best chances IMHO for that endeavor are whoever voted to move Navy and MI led by Stu and Phil.

We need more watchdogs over this school district. Parents need to be involved in decisions that this SB makes that affects all of our children-and not just jump in when it is in their neighborhood. We have no organized council to protect our interests-PTAs are not getting it done and the County Council of PTAs is way too passive.

The SOCO Boundary was pure incompetence thru and thru. And it all rests on Dan Storck's shoulders. These other SB members need to step up and uphold their fiduciary responsibilities regardless of whose feeling they hurt. We can't afford a middle school and we don't need one.

Last night's meeting was an eye opener for me. Does everyone realize that his SB-in the year 2008-is just now getting around to addressing the minority achievement gaps?? All these other school districts have had action plans in place for years. Richmond and VA Beach are kicking our A** on dealing with the problems. Many of our schools have lower average scores than VA averages.

We spend $13k per pupil. Some districts spend $5-$6k and they are beating us on closing gaps. We, as a community, regardless of our own race, need to tell this school district that a 50% drop-out rates for Latinos is unacceptable. That a dropout rate for African Americans of 25% is unacceptable. Their solution is to send these kids to auto mechanics and cosmetology because they can't figure out a way to educate them.

We have a crisis here. Hone and Rainey are the only 2 SB members who have a clue.

Floris Mom of 16 Years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't doubt that the SL Art Department is very
> good. But so is Westfield's AND Westfield's Art
> Department offers three AP Art classes: AP Art
> History (which can be taken as a sophomore), AP
> Art Drawing Portfolio, and AP Art 2-D Design
> Portfolio. This is a goldmine to kids interested
> in pursuing art at the university level. Will all
> three of these AP Art classes be on SL's short
> list for the near future??? Setting all emotions
> aside, if you put SL and Westfield's Art course
> offerings side by side, I would dare say that
> Westfield's is better, simply because of the
> college level courses offered. Serious art
> students would get more bang for their buck, as it
> were, can take rigorous courses where their heart
> and interests lie, can earn college credit and
> jumpstart their college career.


Do you know anything about the South Lakes Art Dept? It has been praised extensively for many many years not only in Fairfax County but nationwide, (faculty, curriculum, student art work). Though Im sure it is wonderful, I have never heard that same praise about the Westfield Art Dept. SL offers just as many college level art courses as the ones you mention at Westfield.

SOUTH LAKES:
Art 1, Grades 9-12
Art 2, Grades 10-12
Art 3, Grades 10-12
Media Focus: Ceramics 1, Grades 10-12
Media Focus: Ceramics 2, Grades 11-12
Portfolio Preparation: Ceramics, Grade 12
Portfolio Preparation: Art 4, Grade 11 & 12
Computer Graphics 1, 2, Grades 10-12
Photography 1, Grades 10-12
Portfolio Preparation: Graphics, Grades 11-12
Photography 2, Grades 11-12
IB Art I, Grades 11-12
Portfolio Preparation: Photography, Grade 11 & 12
IB Art II, Grades 12
IB Photography
Visual Communications (Digital photo)


WESTFIELD
Art 1
Photo 1
3D Art Studio 1 Ceramics/ Sculpture
Computer Graphics 1
AP Studio Art
Art 2
Photo 2
3D Art Studio 2 Ceramics/ Sculpture
Computer Graphics 2
AP Art History
Art 3
Photo 3 Portfolio Prep.
3D Art Studio 3 Portfolio Prep.
Computer Graphics 3 Portfolio Prep.
Art 4 Portfolio Prep.
Animation

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some Fox Mill houses for sale:
>
> http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?z
> p=20171&typ=1&sid=64c5a0387b0643599038ea845b97ab3d
> &pg=1&lid=1096132220&lsn=3&srcnt=135#Detail
>

I was wrong when I said this house is next to a hose in foreclosure, this is the foreclosed property. Although I've never been inside it looks like it needs a lot of work, but it is in the Crossfield/Carson/Oakton district.

FAIRFAX COUNTY
Two Arrested After Brawl In Gym at Hayfield School


By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, March 14, 2008; Page B03

Fights broke out after a student-faculty basketball game at a Fairfax County high school Wednesday afternoon, resulting in the arrest of two teenagers, one of whom was tasered by police after he allegedly assaulted an officer.

The melee erupted about 3:30 p.m. inside the gymnasium at Hayfield Secondary School, 7630 Telegraph Rd., in southern Fairfax. Police estimated that 300 to 400 students were watching an after-school basketball game, Fairfax Lt. Dan Courtney said, when a student from another school became involved in a "disturbance" inside the gym.

Teachers, staff and the school resource officer ushered the crowd out of the gym to wait for buses, Courtney said. More fights broke out, he said, and the school resource officer called for backup. More than 30 officers came to the scene, Courtney said.

The heavy police response calmed things down, but "one individual actually was a problem," Courtney said. The 17-year-old Hayfield student allegedly assaulted a police officer, and police used "one of our conductive energy devices," Courtney said, using a generic description for a Taser, used to briefly incapacitate troublesome subjects with an electric shock.

The student was charged with felony assault on a police officer and misdemeanor disorderly conduct. A student from another school was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Courtney said.

"It was not mass mayhem," he said. "We brought additional resources in to control the situation, and the problems were dealt with fairly quickly."

In an e-mail to parents, Hayfield Principal William Oehrlein said that he had been speaking with principals from "many surrounding schools, and they too are seeing a general decline in appropriate student behavior this week before spring break."

Oehrlein said that "administrators will be meeting in the next few days to put in place additional strategies to maintain our school as a safe place to work and study."

ART Wrote:
> SOUTH LAKES:
> Art 1, Grades 9-12
> Art 2, Grades 10-12
> Art 3, Grades 10-12
> Media Focus: Ceramics 1, Grades 10-12
> Media Focus: Ceramics 2, Grades 11-12
> Portfolio Preparation: Ceramics, Grade 12
> Portfolio Preparation: Art 4, Grade 11 & 12
> Computer Graphics 1, 2, Grades 10-12
> Photography 1, Grades 10-12
> Portfolio Preparation: Graphics, Grades 11-12
> Photography 2, Grades 11-12
> IB Art I, Grades 11-12
> Portfolio Preparation: Photography, Grade 11 & 12
> IB Art II, Grades 12
> IB Photography
> Visual Communications (Digital photo)
>
> WESTFIELD
> Art 1
> Photo 1
> 3D Art Studio 1 Ceramics/ Sculpture
> Computer Graphics 1
> AP Studio Art
> Art 2
> Photo 2
> 3D Art Studio 2 Ceramics/ Sculpture
> Computer Graphics 2
> AP Art History
> Art 3
> Photo 3 Portfolio Prep.
> 3D Art Studio 3 Portfolio Prep.
> Computer Graphics 3 Portfolio Prep.
> Art 4 Portfolio Prep.
> Animation

Which gets us back to the original question: Why does South Lakes "need" more students?

A list of the specific courses that are even tentatively planned could help families currently making pupil placement decisions.

As I said before I have no doubt that SL's Art Department is very good. The question is, however, will the kids receive college credit for those college level art classes? And I was just using the Art as an example, because my whole thread a long time ago was that my daughter is in AP Art History at Westfield, loving it, and hopefully will earn 8 college crdits for her efforts. She would be denied the opportunity to explore this subject at SL. But what about the Floris kids who are not interested in art? Rather, they love music, or computer sciences, or psychology? They will denied the opportunity to follow their hearts and interests, pick and choose from a rich variety of college AP classes, work hard, earn college credit, and boost their GPAs by .5 for each AP class they complete.

To Lee Parent: We have established a wonderful watchdog group specifically for the reasons you mentioned. Go to: fairfaxcaps.org and join! You'll be glad you did!

Benefits of AP

AP offers high school students the opportunity to:

motivate their students to study hard.
enhance the quality of the curriculum offered.
allow faculty to teach demanding courses to capable, highly motivated students.
demonstrate to the community the school's commitment to strong academic standards.
allow students to take a college level course in an area of their special interest.

AP offers high school students the opportunity to:

earn college credits for courses and examinations successfully completed in high school.
exempt them from some introductory college courses, thus permitting students to move into advanced classes more quickly.
attempt more challenging courses in both high school and college.
develop, in a high school environment, the study skills and habits they will need in college.
bolster their confidence that they can meet college requirements.
reduce college costs by reducing the time needed to earn a degree.

Research on the effects of taking Advanced Placement courses and examinations has demonstrated that when AP students reach college, they typically take additional courses in the academic areas of their AP courses, enroll in more courses than their peers, achieve higher grade point averages and go on to graduate school at a rate double that of their non-AP peers.

My daughter tried to register for a Pre-AP class at Oakton (through RCMS this week) and we were told by her counselor that unless the teacher recommended it that she wasn't allowed to register for it.

Everything else I have read says that any kid who wants can sign up for Pre-AP or AP classes.

Does anyone know if this is new this year to block some kids from Pupil Placing from IB to AP? Are they planning to say that some kids weren't recommended and therefore they can't Pupil Place?

My daughter is upset that she can't get the class she wants and the counselor said that there were some new rules.

If my suspicions are true, then it is just another way for the SB to mess with the RDed families!

The real question is whether the same "teacher recommendation" requirements are being applied to students who live in the Oakton HS pyramid, or to students in other AP high schools who want to take pre-AP courses.

RCMSMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My daughter tried to register for a Pre-AP class
> at Oakton (through RCMS this week) and we were
> told by her counselor that unless the teacher
> recommended it that she wasn't allowed to register
> for it.
>
> Everything else I have read says that any kid who
> wants can sign up for Pre-AP or AP classes.
>
> Does anyone know if this is new this year to block
> some kids from Pupil Placing from IB to AP? Are
> they planning to say that some kids weren't
> recommended and therefore they can't Pupil Place?
>
> My daughter is upset that she can't get the class
> she wants and the counselor said that there were
> some new rules.

RCMSMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My daughter tried to register for a Pre-AP class
> at Oakton (through RCMS this week) and we were
> told by her counselor that unless the teacher
> recommended it that she wasn't allowed to register
> for it.
>
> Everything else I have read says that any kid who
> wants can sign up for Pre-AP or AP classes.
>
> Does anyone know if this is new this year to block
> some kids from Pupil Placing from IB to AP? Are
> they planning to say that some kids weren't
> recommended and therefore they can't Pupil Place?
>
> My daughter is upset that she can't get the class
> she wants and the counselor said that there were
> some new rules.
>
> If my suspicions are true, then it is just another
> way for the SB to mess with the RDed families!

Is Oakton or Westfield still your base school? Kids who live in Fox Mill were told to register for SL, at least as far as I know, although there may have been exceptions. Some who tried to go to the Oakton sign-up were told to get back to SL. I think it's going to be very confused. Too bad the registration couldn't have waited until later in the spring when pupil placements have wrapped up.

RCMSMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My daughter tried to register for a Pre-AP class
> at Oakton (through RCMS this week) and we were
> told by her counselor that unless the teacher
> recommended it that she wasn't allowed to register
> for it.
>
> Everything else I have read says that any kid who
> wants can sign up for Pre-AP or AP classes.
>
> Does anyone know if this is new this year to block
> some kids from Pupil Placing from IB to AP? Are
> they planning to say that some kids weren't
> recommended and therefore they can't Pupil Place?
>
> My daughter is upset that she can't get the class
> she wants and the counselor said that there were
> some new rules.
>
> If my suspicions are true, then it is just another
> way for the SB to mess with the RDed families!


Oh great. I was wondering how that was turning out with registering for courses through pupil placement and if denied certain courses then that would mean forcing the redistricted kid to go back to the new school?

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RCMSMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My daughter tried to register for a Pre-AP
> class
> > at Oakton (through RCMS this week) and we were
> > told by her counselor that unless the teacher
> > recommended it that she wasn't allowed to
> register
> > for it.
> >
> > Everything else I have read says that any kid
> who
> > wants can sign up for Pre-AP or AP classes.
> >
> > Does anyone know if this is new this year to
> block
> > some kids from Pupil Placing from IB to AP?
> Are
> > they planning to say that some kids weren't
> > recommended and therefore they can't Pupil
> Place?
> >
> > My daughter is upset that she can't get the
> class
> > she wants and the counselor said that there
> were
> > some new rules.
> >
> > If my suspicions are true, then it is just
> another
> > way for the SB to mess with the RDed families!
>
> Is Oakton or Westfield still your base school?
> Kids who live in Fox Mill were told to register
> for SL, at least as far as I know, although there
> may have been exceptions. Some who tried to go to
> the Oakton sign-up were told to get back to SL. I
> think it's going to be very confused. Too bad the
> registration couldn't have waited until later in
> the spring when pupil placements have wrapped up.


I agree that the registration should be on hold a little later until the pupil placements have cleared up. The Oakton principal did say before that registration for new students or pupil placed students would not begin until later this month.

To Love AP:

Wow!!! Thank you for that great summary of the benefits of AP. It supports what I have been trying to say about my family's own personal experiences with AP. We too love AP. We have seen first hand how it: exempts kids from those 100 level 300 freshmen in a lecture hall classes; boosts the kids' high school GPAs; and saves money when a student can graduate a semester early from college.

For those of us who have older children in college and out of college, we want AP for our younger children. This is what makes this redistricting so hard to swallow. No one should be forced into an IB school. That should be a personal and optional choice for families.

Whether or not your 8th grader signs up for "Pre-AP" courses should have no effect on the decision to approve pupil placing from an IB to AP school. Almost none of the AP courses have any Pre-AP courses as a prerequisite, and most AP courses don't start until junior year.

Since it seems like so many of you in the South Lakes district prefer AP over IB, why not just petition South Lakes to adopt the AP program? If more taxpayers ask for AP, then South Lakes would probably be willing to drop IB. This approach would be far more efficient than taking your kids to a school further away from your house than South Lakes.

Travis Wrote:
> Since it seems like so many of you in the South
> Lakes district prefer AP over IB, why not just
> petition South Lakes to adopt the AP program? If
> more taxpayers ask for AP, then South Lakes would
> probably be willing to drop IB. This approach
> would be far more efficient than taking your kids
> to a school further away from your house than
> South Lakes.

OK, but until then, until it is a "done deal" with a full range of AP courses available, we decline to sacrifice our children's opportunity to access the AP program.

Travis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since it seems like so many of you in the South
> Lakes district prefer AP over IB, why not just
> petition South Lakes to adopt the AP program? If
> more taxpayers ask for AP, then South Lakes would
> probably be willing to drop IB. This approach
> would be far more efficient than taking your kids
> to a school further away from your house than
> South Lakes.

That MIGHT, and I emphasize MIGHT, work if your kids are in, say, the 6th grade or younger. It is an absolute certainty however that this route will not help the current 8th graders who had planned on persuing an AP oriented curriculum, but are now yanked out of their original schools and forced into SL.

Benefits of IB

IB offers high school students the opportunity
to:

> motivate their students to study hard.
> enhance the quality of the curriculum offered.
> allow faculty to teach demanding courses to
> capable, highly motivated students.
> demonstrate to the community the school's
> commitment to strong academic standards.
> allow students to take a college level course in
> an area of their special interest.

IB offers high school students the opportunity
to:

> earn college credits for courses and examinations
> successfully completed in high school.
> exempt them from some introductory college
> courses, thus permitting students to move into
> advanced classes more quickly.
> attempt more challenging courses in both high
> school and college.
> develop, in a high school environment, the study
> skills and habits they will need in college.
> bolster their confidence that they can meet
> college requirements.
> reduce college costs by reducing the time needed
> to earn a degree.

> Research on the effects of taking IB courses and examinations has
> demonstrated that when IB students reach college,
> they typically take additional courses in the
> academic areas of their IB courses, enroll in more
> courses than their peers, achieve higher grade
> point averages and go on to graduate school at a
> rate double that of their non-IB peers.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fm/c/o parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RCMSMom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > My daughter tried to register for a Pre-AP
> > class
> > > at Oakton (through RCMS this week) and we
> were
> > > told by her counselor that unless the teacher
> > > recommended it that she wasn't allowed to
> > register
> > > for it.
> > >
> > > Everything else I have read says that any kid
> > who
> > > wants can sign up for Pre-AP or AP classes.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if this is new this year to
> > block
> > > some kids from Pupil Placing from IB to AP?
> > Are
> > > they planning to say that some kids weren't
> > > recommended and therefore they can't Pupil
> > Place?
> > >
> > > My daughter is upset that she can't get the
> > class
> > > she wants and the counselor said that there
> > were
> > > some new rules.
> > >
> > > If my suspicions are true, then it is just
> > another
> > > way for the SB to mess with the RDed
> families!
> >
> > Is Oakton or Westfield still your base school?
> > Kids who live in Fox Mill were told to register
> > for SL, at least as far as I know, although
> there
> > may have been exceptions. Some who tried to go
> to
> > the Oakton sign-up were told to get back to SL.
> I
> > think it's going to be very confused. Too bad
> the
> > registration couldn't have waited until later
> in
> > the spring when pupil placements have wrapped
> up.
>
>
> I agree that the registration should be on hold a
> little later until the pupil placements have
> cleared up. The Oakton principal did say before
> that registration for new students or pupil placed
> students would not begin until later this month.


If SL can't get your registration then they can't get their teachers. So they want you to submit your registration through them so they can claim they have "enough" students for more resources. Also, you don't have to qualify for pre-AP classes at least not anywhere else in the county. Contact Fairfaxcaps, they have a special group who is helping pupil placement families apply and appeal, if necessary, for what should be fair for all Ffx County students

ballot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> If SL can't get your registration then they can't
> get their teachers. So they want you to submit
> your registration through them so they can claim
> they have "enough" students for more resources.
> Also, you don't have to qualify for pre-AP classes
> at least not anywhere else in the county. Contact
> Fairfaxcaps, they have a special group who is
> helping pupil placement families apply and appeal,
> if necessary, for what should be fair for all Ffx
> County students


FairfaxCAPS must be busy little bodies to deal with all this AND the lawsuit.

Love IB Wrote:
> ... IB offers high school students the opportunity to:
> > ... earn college credits for courses and examinations
> > successfully completed in high school.
> > exempt them from some introductory college
> > courses, thus permitting students to move into
> > advanced classes more quickly.
> > attempt more challenging courses in both high
> > school and college.
> > ... reduce college costs by reducing the time needed
> > to earn a degree.
-----------
True for the 5-7% of students who are FULL IB Diploma Graduates and who have taken three or four High Level courses.

[Now review the differences between HL and SL courses and between Full IB Diploma candidates and students who only take one or a few IB courses.]

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Travis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since it seems like so many of you in the South
> > Lakes district prefer AP over IB, why not just
> > petition South Lakes to adopt the AP program?
> If
> > more taxpayers ask for AP, then South Lakes
> would
> > probably be willing to drop IB. This approach
> > would be far more efficient than taking your
> kids
> > to a school further away from your house than
> > South Lakes.
>
> That MIGHT, and I emphasize MIGHT, work if your
> kids are in, say, the 6th grade or younger. It is
> an absolute certainty however that this route will
> not help the current 8th graders who had planned
> on persuing an AP oriented curriculum, but are now
> yanked out of their original schools and forced
> into SL.


Right and also Travis, Phil, one of the SBMs had a motion to lock IB in for 5 years at SL. I don't know the verdict of the motion from last night's meeting if they talked about it because I did not watch the entire meeting so Travis, can you see why there has been many frustrated redistricted parents of rising 9th graders who have planned for AP studies or have older sibs in high school taking AP courses.

Love IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Benefits of IB
>
> IB offers high school students the opportunity
> to:
>
> > motivate their students to study hard.
> > enhance the quality of the curriculum offered.
> > allow faculty to teach demanding courses to
> > capable, highly motivated students.
> > demonstrate to the community the school's
> > commitment to strong academic standards.
> > allow students to take a college level course
> in
> > an area of their special interest.
>
> IB offers high school students the opportunity
> to:
>
> > earn college credits for courses and
> examinations
> > successfully completed in high school.
> > exempt them from some introductory college
> > courses, thus permitting students to move into
> > advanced classes more quickly.
> > attempt more challenging courses in both high
> > school and college.
> > develop, in a high school environment, the
> study
> > skills and habits they will need in college.
> > bolster their confidence that they can meet
> > college requirements.
> > reduce college costs by reducing the time
> needed
> > to earn a degree.
>
> > Research on the effects of taking IB courses and
> examinations has
> > demonstrated that when IB students reach
> college,
> > they typically take additional courses in the
> > academic areas of their IB courses, enroll in
> more
> > courses than their peers, achieve higher grade
> > point averages and go on to graduate school at
> a
> > rate double that of their non-IB peers.


Can you cite your sources please...particularly the fact the IB kids achieve a higher GPA in college than non IBers and the fact the IB kids go on to grad school at twice the rate of non IBers. (I assume you're comparing them to AP kids,not just those that took general ed level.) If you have some solid research to back up your claims that would be very interesting to many I think. Thanks!

ballot Wrote:

> If SL can't get your registration then they can't
> get their teachers. So they want you to submit
> your registration through them so they can claim
> they have "enough" students for more resources.


SL already has 1.4x staff:student and computer:student ratios compared to Madison

Why do they need more teachers?

Is there anything that SL doesn't want?

These are the BIG differences in AP vs. IB. AP offers the following advantages over IB:

> > earn college credits for courses and
> examinations
> > exempt them from some introductory college
> > courses, thus permitting students to move into
> > advanced classes more quickly.
> > achieve higher grade point averages in high school due to weighted .5 added to each grade achieved in an AP class
> > reduce college costs by reducing the time
> needed
> > to earn a degree.
>

Carson parent Wrote:
> Can you cite your sources please...

Fair question.

The “Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study” (TIMSS) found US students ranked 22nd out of 23 countries. The exception: AP Calculus students. Even those students who only earned AP Calculus grades of 1 or 2 demonstrated the same level of math achievement as students from the highest-ranked nation, France.

In Physics, US students ranked an embarrassing dead last, 23rd out of 23 countries. The exception again: AP Physics students, among whom even those who earned AP Physics grades of 1 or 2 were only bested by students from the top two nations, Norway and Sweden. [Engenio J. Gonzalez, Kathleen M. O’Connor, and Julie A. Miles, “How Well Do Advanced Placement Students Perform on the TIMSS Advanced Mathematics and Physics Tests?” (2001), The International Study Center, Boston College.]

Two sets of researchers report that an AP Exam grade, and a grade of 3 or higher in particular, is a strong predictor of a student’s ability to persist in college and earn a bachelor’s degree [Saul Geiser and Veronica Santelices, “The Role of Advanced Placement and Honors Courses in College Admissions” (2004), Center for Studies in Higher Education, University of California: Berkeley] and [Chrys Dougherty, Lynn Mellor, and Shuling Jian, “The Relationship Between Advanced Placement and College Graduation” (2005), National Center for Educational Accountability].

I wrote about my daughter and not having a teacher recommendation for Pre-AP and therefore being denied the ability to register for it at Oakton. We were not redistricted in this mess; but, have many friends who were and just wanted to let other parents now that this might be an issue.

For her it is just unfair that she can't take a class she wants. I was concerned for my neighbors that it may be a way to block pupil placements. Every RCMS student should have gotten the teacher recommendations this week in case you haven't seen your child's.

Dear School Board Members- 3/14/08

I was delighted to see the FCPS SB FINALLY decide to take on the issue of Minority Underachievement. Many school districts have been focusing on this issue for years, yet I am glad that our SB has finally decided to take some action.

I would like to make some general comments about last night's presentation:

1. Staff members did not sound up to speed on many of the issues such as how to calculate drop outs, etc. I think Noonan and his staff should do a little more reading on the topic before they engage in a Q and A with SB members.

2. Many questions asked by SB members really demonstrated their lack of knowledge on this topic and I thought it looked unprofessional. Kathy Smith should certainly know what the different certificates and diplomas represent.

3. Janie Strauss showed concern for the Asians in FCPS that their graduation rates were just 15% which did not seem consistent with their high test scores. I was troubled that she did not seem the least bit bothered by the 50% dropout rates for Latinos and 25% dropout rates for African Americans.

4. Moon's comments about different Asian groups were actually quite racist. It sounded like he was suggesting that Koreans come from stronger families and are therefore more successful. Let's give all the Asians in FCPS your attention and start advocating for other races other than your own close-knit community. The Blacks and Latinos are expecting your advocacy as well.

5. Dan Storck was quite firm with Hone about the 5 minute limit, yet seemed a bit casually about everyone else going over their allotted time. Is it because Hone asks the tough questions? I hope the Chairman is not attempting to censor one of the members.

Let's get to the meat of the underachievement issue. Let's disclose the data-even if it makes us look bad. Show dropout figures, show disciplinary infractions against our minority students (I like how Noonan hasn't looked into that relationship yet). Show the SAT participation rates in the high schools, show the AP/IB rates and the TJHS paltry minority participation numbers.

Let's get moving-we are way behind the other school districts. We know who Jerry's kids are-who are Jack's kids? In the past it has been the kids from Langley, Oakton, Madison. Let’s take care of the ones who need us.

WATCHDOG FOR FOUR MORE YEARS

BIBNY

Carson parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Can you cite your sources please...particularly
> the fact the IB kids achieve a higher GPA in
> college than non IBers and the fact the IB kids go
> on to grad school at twice the rate of non IBers.
> (I assume you're comparing them to AP kids,not
> just those that took general ed level.) If you
> have some solid research to back up your claims
> that would be very interesting to many I think.
> Thanks!


I know there is a University of Florida study that states something along those lines; I am trying to find that. In the meantime, I came across this: http://www.uhigh.lsu.edu/academics/ib/ib_advantage.htm

The quote that stands out from the above link is, "Two studies of IB Diploma graduates reveal that IB students not only do better at getting into college; they also do better and are more satisfied once accepted. In the first, 88% of IB Diploma holders compared with 41%of students who earned at least some AP credit maintained a "B" average or better through their first year of college. In the second, the average drop in grade point average between high school and college was twice as high for college preparatory students as for IB Diploma students, and the IB students were twice as likely to rate themselves "satisfied" or "extremely satisfied" with their college experience."

Will google some more to see if I can find the actual studies.

Here is some very interesting information: http://internationalcounselor.org/College%20program/ib_and_college_admissions.htm

Note in particular what Va Tech found: "Virginia Tech surveyed a large sample of students - 3688 students that were non-IB students, 647 students that has studied AP courses, and 100 IB students. They focused on the percentage of students that obtained a GPA above 3.0 after four semesters. Non-IB: 33%, AP: 41%, IB: 88%. In the summary sent to schools, Virginia Tech concluded that student performance indicated that important positive attitudes toward learning are developed at high schools offering the IB program."

Your daughter does not a recommendation in order to take AP courses but......
she won't be able to go to Oakton unless she is asking for AP courses and another course that is not offered at Herndon. Please check out the fairfaxcaps.org web page for current info.

We can handle it. Want to join the fun????

noms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “Their plan is to build a new middle school in
> South County so that they do not have to
> redistrict SCSS because of politics and
> favoritism.”
>
> No, the SB members will hold a boundary study next
> year for the South County area, and yes they will
> use the under capacity seats at Lake Braddock and
> Hayfield. Both of these schools are under capacity
> and both schools can help the over capacity at
> South County. Hayfield is in need of students,
> they need students just like Mount Vernon. Both of
> these schools are hurting and could use students.
> They did it for South Lakes, the SB should do it
> for Hayfield and Mount Vernon. No new middle
> school is needed for South County when three
> schools have empty seats.

The School board is now concerned about under enrollment at Hayfield? Perhaps they should have thought about that before they sent all those Hayfield kids to South County, two years ago. Hayfield's school board rep, Brad Center, let it become under enrolled to please those in his district who wanted out of Hayfield and into South County. It's not likely he will force them to move back to Hayfield. Unlike Stu, Brad cares about where his constituents want to go to school.

There will be no students sent to Mount Vernon. Dan Storck has said that the school is too out of the way (or something like that regarding its location) to redistrict. PLUS, he is well aware that no one wants to go there. Unlike Stu, Storck won't force students to go his IB school against their will.

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is some very interesting information:
> http://internationalcounselor.org/College%20progra
> m/ib_and_college_admissions.htm
>
> Note in particular what Va Tech found: "Virginia
> Tech surveyed a large sample of students - 3688
> students that were non-IB students, 647 students
> that has studied AP courses, and 100 IB students.
> They focused on the percentage of students that
> obtained a GPA above 3.0 after four semesters.
> Non-IB: 33%, AP: 41%, IB: 88%. In the summary sent
> to schools, Virginia Tech concluded that student
> performance indicated that important positive
> attitudes toward learning are developed at high
> schools offering the IB program."

That's nice. Thanks for sharing that good attitude thing. But what does it mean? Nothing. No advantage to any student.

Oh wait, it may well mean that IB students, with their sunny dispositions, major in easier subjects, and are therefore more likely to have a higher GPA. It's not likely that any of them are majoring in physics, engineering or math. But they may well be majoring in international studies, African History, French literature, feminist studies, courses of study that are a bit easier to achieve a high average than electrical engineering, computer science, math, chemical engineering, or physics.

But it's nice that the IB students have positive attitudes. That will help them in getting a nice job in their nice field of study.

Travis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since it seems like so many of you in the South
> Lakes district prefer AP over IB, why not just
> petition South Lakes to adopt the AP program? If
> more taxpayers ask for AP, then South Lakes would
> probably be willing to drop IB. This approach
> would be far more efficient than taking your kids
> to a school further away from your house than
> South Lakes.

The school board has made a comment to IB at South Lakes for at least the next 5 years. The school board is well aware that people want IB, but the School board thinks the people are wrong, so no dice. People at South Lakes, and all the other IB schools, are stuck with it because the school board and staff like it. Period. Done.

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carson parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > Can you cite your sources please...particularly
> > the fact the IB kids achieve a higher GPA in
> > college than non IBers and the fact the IB kids
> go
> > on to grad school at twice the rate of non
> IBers.
> > (I assume you're comparing them to AP kids,not
> > just those that took general ed level.) If you
> > have some solid research to back up your claims
> > that would be very interesting to many I think.
>
> > Thanks!
>
>
> I know there is a University of Florida study that
> states something along those lines; I am trying to
> find that. In the meantime, I came across this:
> http://www.uhigh.lsu.edu/academics/ib/ib_advantage
> .htm
>
> The quote that stands out from the above link is,
> "Two studies of IB Diploma graduates reveal that
> IB students not only do better at getting into
> college; they also do better and are more
> satisfied once accepted. In the first, 88% of IB
> Diploma holders compared with 41%of students who
> earned at least some AP credit maintained a "B"
> average or better through their first year of
> college. In the second, the average drop in grade
> point average between high school and college was
> twice as high for college preparatory students as
> for IB Diploma students, and the IB students were
> twice as likely to rate themselves "satisfied" or
> "extremely satisfied" with their college
> experience."
>
> Will google some more to see if I can find the
> actual studies.

Yes, those 5% of students in FCPS who go for the IB diploma do well in college. So what? What about the other 95% who do not go for the IB diploma but want to earn some AP credits for college?

You might want to meniton those TJ kids, the top 1% in FCPS, do better than IB kids in college. Again, so what? We're not focusing on the top 1% or the top 5%, but the other 95% of our college bound students. Which program serves THOSE students the best?

RCMSMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wrote about my daughter and not having a teacher
> recommendation for Pre-AP and therefore being
> denied the ability to register for it at Oakton.
> We were not redistricted in this mess; but, have
> many friends who were and just wanted to let other
> parents now that this might be an issue.
>
> For her it is just unfair that she can't take a
> class she wants. I was concerned for my neighbors
> that it may be a way to block pupil placements.
> Every RCMS student should have gotten the teacher
> recommendations this week in case you haven't seen
> your child's.

There is NO such policy for pre AP programs, or Honors programs, or whatever they are called at a high school. Oakton cannot make up their own policies. If your child wants to try a pre AP class, she is free to do that. She CAN take any course she wants, that is FCPS policy.

Send the Oakton counselor an email and tell her your daughter's choices for classes. Copy it to the principal and the cluster director. If they refuse, deal directly with the cluster director. Keep pursuing it and they will give in. They must. They cannot change policy. If the school board has a policy, an individual school cannot change that.

noms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Facts,
>
> They will not have the money, and if enough people
> complain to the SB, they will use the seats at
> Lake Braddock and Hayfield. They should include
> Mount Vernon in the study next year. They will
> hold a boundary study next year to remove students
> from South County to Lake Braddock and Hayfield,
> the school is way over capacity. They have to
> redistrict that area because South County can not
> function properly with that many students. Use
> all empty seats: Hayfield, Mt. Vernon and Lake
> Braddock. Let the SB know seats need to be used at
> Hayfield, Mt. Vernon and Lake Braddock.

Why would they care what people think? They didn't care with South Lakes. What makes you think they will care about the other schools? They can always float more bonds. Can't they?

Anyone have an update on pupil placement statistics? I am curious as to how much resistance there will be to a compelled move to South Lakes. Bureaucrats being what they are, they will maneuver with every fiber of their being to accomplish their objective of hauling as many to the redistricted school, but unfortunately for them waaayy too many eyes are watching so they will have to, if they have any sense, be scrupulously fair.

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need more watchdogs over this school district.
> Parents need to be involved in decisions that this
> SB makes that affects all of our children-and not
> just jump in when it is in their neighborhood. We
> have no organized council to protect our
> interests-PTAs are not getting it done and the
> County Council of PTAs is way too passive.
>
> The SOCO Boundary was pure incompetence thru and
> thru. And it all rests on Dan Storck's shoulders.
> These other SB members need to step up and uphold
> their fiduciary responsibilities regardless of
> whose feeling they hurt. We can't afford a middle
> school and we don't need one.
>
> Last night's meeting was an eye opener for me.
> Does everyone realize that his SB-in the year
> 2008-is just now getting around to addressing the
> minority achievement gaps?? All these other school
> districts have had action plans in place for
> years. Richmond and VA Beach are kicking our A**
> on dealing with the problems. Many of our schools
> have lower average scores than VA averages.
>
> We spend $13k per pupil. Some districts spend
> $5-$6k and they are beating us on closing gaps.
> We, as a community, regardless of our own race,
> need to tell this school district that a 50%
> drop-out rates for Latinos is unacceptable. That
> a dropout rate for African Americans of 25% is
> unacceptable. Their solution is to send these
> kids to auto mechanics and cosmetology because
> they can't figure out a way to educate them.
>
> We have a crisis here. Hone and Rainey are the
> only 2 SB members who have a clue.

Good post. Doesn't FCPS have an entire division that deals with the achievement gap? Don't we have an assistant superintendent that oversees that division? Haven't they had goals to close that gap for at least 2 decades? Haven't they put in numerous, ineffective, programs, to deal with the gap, such as Success by 8, Project Excel, multi age classes, focus schools, title 1 schools, magnet elementary schools, and modified calendar schools ? Doesn't FCPS have at least 7 programs, to deal with this gap, such as Quest, college partnership, Summit, Young scholars, affirmative action at TJ and at GT centers etc? Of course we can't expect them to use programs that work but are against their ideology, like phonics based reading, direct instruction, real math rather than Everyday math, and real history and science. So we pay millions and millions each year on ever more ineffective programs. Our school board would never violate their political ideology to help children learn. My goodness. We couldn't ask that! Every single one of our school board members has a clue. They know what works and they know what doesn't work, but they just can't bring themselves to admit that they've been wrong and their ideology is as wrong now as it was when they adopted open schools without walls (like South Lakes) and programs like Whole Language which failed to teach children how to read, write, or appreciate literature.

They ALL know what works, and what doesn't, but that the will not do what works because it doesn't fit their political ideology. They prefer to waste their time trying to kill the evidence of their failures. If they could just abolish SOL's and NCLB, no one will be see the failures, and there will be no evidence of any gaps. Shout the messanger, and all will be well in FCPS.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone have an update on pupil placement
> statistics? I am curious as to how much
> resistance there will be to a compelled move to
> South Lakes. Bureaucrats being what they are,
> they will maneuver with every fiber of their being
> to accomplish their objective of hauling as many
> to the redistricted school, but unfortunately for
> them waaayy too many eyes are watching so they
> will have to, if they have any sense, be
> scrupulously fair.

Like any good bureaucrat, they will so whatever makes their live easier. Allowing students to pupil place out of South Lakes expedites that goal. Less work for them. Parents appealing, calling, fussing, creates more work. Better to just approve them and cut your work load. Other than the Principal and Stu, no one cares how many students go to South Lakes. The teachers there don't care, smaller classes are better for them. Cluster people don't care, they just don't want more work for their offices. Counselors don't care, they have the same number of students to counsel, regardless. More students create more work for the APs, so I doubt they care. The vast majority of parents of college bound students are happy with their small IB classes, and their roles in the small PTA.

Which bureaucrat group do you think cares about how many students South Lakes has in attendance?

I presume people at least take a gander at the other thread titles before lurking or posting to this one. No HS is immune to what appears to be happening at WHS right now and it's certainly no reflection on the faculty or staff. Unfortunately, anyplace where 3,000 teenagers gather is going to be a marketplace for some of the most vile predators imaginable.

Maybe going to a smaller school with poor kids who, if involved with any illegal acitvities, mostly keep to themselves isn't so unattractive after all, is it?

Maybe geography isn't so overrated after all, is it?

It pretty much puts IB and AP in perspective doesn't it?

It also puts those Newsweek and Greatschools.net rankings in perspective too, doesn't it?

I'm sure the overwhelming majority of kids at any FCPS whether large or small are committed to not only their kids educations, but their lives as well. I'm sure the majority of parents are involved enough in their kids lives to at least be aware of who they hang out with and that they take advantage of the unique opportunities a FCPS education provides.

These tragic events just gives everyone involved something else to think about and to evaluate their priorities.

If the rumors about drugs at Oakton turn out to be the same thing that happened at Westfields today, than transfering to SL might be a huge plus for all parents. LOL

Mr. Moon 3/15/08

Thank you for your response. Let me assure you that we know what a "racist" is.

Once again this school board cannot see the big picture of minority underachievement.

The school board has to look at all minority children/students and reduce the number of dropouts from these groups.

The school board has to figure out what they are doing wrong and put a plan of CORRECTIVE action in place that will reduce dropouts.

In additional, FCPS has to many schools (68) that have failed the requirements of NCLB.

You must reduce the number of schools that have failed NCLB. If you fix this problem, maybe you will reduce dropouts.

Let's get to the meat of the underachievement issue. Let's disclose the data-even if it makes FCPS look bad. Show dropout figures, show disciplinary infractions against our minority students. Show the SAT participation rates in the high schools, show the AP/IB rates and the TJHS paltry minority participation numbers.

Let's get moving-we are way behind the other school districts.

Lets take care of the ones who need us the most.

WATCHDOG FOR FOUR MORE YEARS,

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP vs IB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here is some very interesting information:
> >
> http://internationalcounselor.org/College%20progra
>
> > m/ib_and_college_admissions.htm
> >
> > Note in particular what Va Tech found:
> "Virginia
> > Tech surveyed a large sample of students - 3688
> > students that were non-IB students, 647
> students
> > that has studied AP courses, and 100 IB
> students.
> > They focused on the percentage of students that
> > obtained a GPA above 3.0 after four semesters.
> > Non-IB: 33%, AP: 41%, IB: 88%. In the summary
> sent
> > to schools, Virginia Tech concluded that
> student
> > performance indicated that important positive
> > attitudes toward learning are developed at high
> > schools offering the IB program."
>
> That's nice. Thanks for sharing that good
> attitude thing. But what does it mean? Nothing.
> No advantage to any student.
>
> Oh wait, it may well mean that IB students, with
> their sunny dispositions, major in easier
> subjects, and are therefore more likely to have a
> higher GPA. It's not likely that any of them are
> majoring in physics, engineering or math. But
> they may well be majoring in international
> studies, African History, French literature,
> feminist studies, courses of study that are a bit
> easier to achieve a high average than electrical
> engineering, computer science, math, chemical
> engineering, or physics.
>
> But it's nice that the IB students have positive
> attitudes. That will help them in getting a nice
> job in their nice field of study.


Neen, even though I don't agree with most of your posts - this one took the cake. Who died and left you in charge. You are so self-righteous about AP and all the other stuff - but now you stooped to a new low.

Why belittle the IB, and who died and left you in charge and gave you the right to claim that engineering and all the other sciences are any harder and/or any more important than other fields of studies (and I am an engineer by training AND an AP product, for the record)

Please cut the crap. Someone is trying to make a point - you don't agree with it, and kaboom belittle them. You think the other ones are harder, fine that is your opinion, then stick to your facts - why do you have to sarcastically belittle the IB stuff?

Please. Enough.

how do ya like SL now Floris? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I presume people at least take a gander at the
> other thread titles before lurking or posting to
> this one. No HS is immune to what appears to be
> happening at WHS right now and it's certainly no
> reflection on the faculty or staff.
> Unfortunately, anyplace where 3,000 teenagers
> gather is going to be a marketplace for some of
> the most vile predators imaginable.
>
> Maybe going to a smaller school with poor kids
> who, if involved with any illegal acitvities,
> mostly keep to themselves isn't so unattractive
> after all, is it?
>
> Maybe geography isn't so overrated after all, is
> it?
>
> It pretty much puts IB and AP in perspective
> doesn't it?
>
> It also puts those Newsweek and Greatschools.net
> rankings in perspective too, doesn't it?
>
> I'm sure the overwhelming majority of kids at any
> FCPS whether large or small are committed to not
> only their kids educations, but their lives as
> well. I'm sure the majority of parents are
> involved enough in their kids lives to at least be
> aware of who they hang out with and that they take
> advantage of the unique opportunities a FCPS
> education provides.
>
> These tragic events just gives everyone involved
> something else to think about and to evaluate
> their priorities.

how do ya like SL now Floris? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I presume people at least take a gander at the
> other thread titles before lurking or posting to
> this one. No HS is immune to what appears to be
> happening at WHS right now and it's certainly no
> reflection on the faculty or staff.
> Unfortunately, anyplace where 3,000 teenagers
> gather is going to be a marketplace for some of
> the most vile predators imaginable.
>
> Maybe going to a smaller school with poor kids
> who, if involved with any illegal acitvities,
> mostly keep to themselves isn't so unattractive
> after all, is it?
>
> Maybe geography isn't so overrated after all, is
> it?
>
> It pretty much puts IB and AP in perspective
> doesn't it?
>
> It also puts those Newsweek and Greatschools.net
> rankings in perspective too, doesn't it?
>
> I'm sure the overwhelming majority of kids at any
> FCPS whether large or small are committed to not
> only their kids educations, but their lives as
> well. I'm sure the majority of parents are
> involved enough in their kids lives to at least be
> aware of who they hang out with and that they take
> advantage of the unique opportunities a FCPS
> education provides.
>
> These tragic events just gives everyone involved
> something else to think about and to evaluate
> their priorities.


What tragic events?

PC Poster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the rumors about drugs at Oakton turn out to be
> the same thing that happened at Westfields today,
> than transfering to SL might be a huge plus for
> all parents. LOL


What rumours? Please elaborate. thanks

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .
>
> Yes, those 5% of students in FCPS who go for the
> IB diploma do well in college. So what? What
> about the other 95% who do not go for the IB
> diploma but want to earn some AP credits for
> college?
>
> You might want to meniton those TJ kids, the top
> 1% in FCPS, do better than IB kids in college.
> Again, so what? We're not focusing on the top 1%
> or the top 5%, but the other 95% of our college
> bound students. Which program serves THOSE
> students the best?

Neen, in both recent posts I was trying to locate some info that someone had requested. The point with the first wasn't the "sunny dispositions" but the higher GPA, and it was from VA Tech. Granted I don't know what their majors are, but you assuming that they are easy is not only rude, but you have no basis for that assumption. Just because they are at an IB high school doesn't mean they are majoring in humanities in college. We are in an IB school because it is our neighborhood school. When my sons were in Kindergarten and first grade IB came to the HS, and gosh, as bad parent as it seems to some of you, I had no idea it was occuring. I was focused on the here and now of starting ES.

Further, what do you suppose the other 95% are doing? I asked Forum Reader that a while ago and haven't seen a response. Those 95% that are taking 1 or 2 IB courses and not doing the diploma are clearly getting into colleges. That I have followed now that my sons are in HS. One son will do the diploma, the other won't. He will take a few IB courses, but won't do the full diploma. Kids like him in his HS who have gone onto college get into Tech, UVA and W & M. (as well as Duke, Cornell etc.)

Quit freaking people at who are already dealing with the redistricting by implying their kids won't get into college if they aren't in the full diploma program.

The studies I found show that they are doing even better than the AP students. at Tech that was evident in their GPA scores. Does that mean the IB program is better for those students? Clearly higher college GPA's are better for applying to graduate schools.

So, perhaps they won't earn as much college credit as they could have at an AP school, but once they are in college they will have, according to the Tech study at least, a higher GPA and fare better at the time of applying to grad school.

"freaking people out", not at, sorry for the typo.

PC Poster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the rumors about drugs at Oakton turn out to be
> the same thing that happened at Westfields today,
> than transfering to SL might be a huge plus for
> all parents. LOL


I hope you all know that drugs, and even worse things, are in every high school in America to some degree! This includes every high school in Northern Virginia! You just have to deal with your child and teach them right from wrong and then hope they listen to you. I don't know where you could send your child to school to get away from the evils of the world. That's just the world we live in today.

how do ya like SL now Floris? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I presume people at least take a gander at the
> other thread titles before lurking or posting to
> this one. No HS is immune to what appears to be
> happening at WHS right now and it's certainly no
> reflection on the faculty or staff.
> Unfortunately, anyplace where 3,000 teenagers
> gather is going to be a marketplace for some of
> the most vile predators imaginable.
>
> Maybe going to a smaller school with poor kids
> who, if involved with any illegal acitvities,
> mostly keep to themselves isn't so unattractive
> after all, is it?
>
> Maybe geography isn't so overrated after all, is
> it?
>
> It pretty much puts IB and AP in perspective
> doesn't it?
>
> It also puts those Newsweek and Greatschools.net
> rankings in perspective too, doesn't it?
>
> I'm sure the overwhelming majority of kids at any
> FCPS whether large or small are committed to not
> only their kids educations, but their lives as
> well. I'm sure the majority of parents are
> involved enough in their kids lives to at least be
> aware of who they hang out with and that they take
> advantage of the unique opportunities a FCPS
> education provides.
>
> These tragic events just gives everyone involved
> something else to think about and to evaluate
> their priorities.


Ok, and these threads became reputable news sources, when? Do you really know all of the facts? Sorry, SL doesn't have AP, the perspective hasn't changed at all.

Oh yeah, "how do ya like SL now Floris?", have you seen the McDonald's Redistricting Thread? Do we get a lecture about how all McDonald's are "A Billion Served" and that geography really doesn't matter when choosing a Big Mac or a Quarter Pounder?

how do ya like SL now Floris? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I presume people at least take a gander at the
> other thread titles before lurking or posting to
> this one. No HS is immune to what appears to be
> happening at WHS right now and it's certainly no
> reflection on the faculty or staff.
> Unfortunately, anyplace where 3,000 teenagers
> gather is going to be a marketplace for some of
> the most vile predators imaginable.
>
> Maybe going to a smaller school with poor kids
> who, if involved with any illegal acitvities,
> mostly keep to themselves isn't so unattractive
> after all, is it?
>
> Maybe geography isn't so overrated after all, is
> it?
>
> It pretty much puts IB and AP in perspective
> doesn't it?
>
> It also puts those Newsweek and Greatschools.net
> rankings in perspective too, doesn't it?
>
> I'm sure the overwhelming majority of kids at any
> FCPS whether large or small are committed to not
> only their kids educations, but their lives as
> well. I'm sure the majority of parents are
> involved enough in their kids lives to at least be
> aware of who they hang out with and that they take
> advantage of the unique opportunities a FCPS
> education provides.
>
> These tragic events just gives everyone involved
> something else to think about and to evaluate
> their priorities.



Hold on, if you believe what you read, this could actually be a win-win for South Lakes and Floris...

When these kids (maybe up to 30??) get re-circulated back into the school system they are offered tickets to other schools. It is no secret that the harbor for most West County delinquents is South Lakes. Ka-ching for South Lakes--this will add to your numbers, maybe, finally that sought after German 4 class.

Floris, well, you now have 30 or so more spots you can use for your pupil placement back to WHS. What a winner!

I really think that everyone should stop this mud slinging back and forth. It is counter productive. These bad feelings are going to last for a very long time. I have a friend who is choosing the IB Program for her daughter. She lives in Chantilly Highlands. Because of all the animosity with SL and the poor handling of the redistricting she is pupil placing her daughter to Marshall! She would rather drive her daughter all the way to Tysons than put her in SL because of the bitterness that remains very heavy here in the Western County. In the end, we will all do what is right for our children, whether we move, pupil place the kids to continue AP, give SL a try, or get our children completely away from this mess and take them to Tysons!!!

To Sick of This:

You are right. This bitterness will last for many many years. I have two more years in this school system until my last child graduates. And personally I can't wait. While I do believe that my children have gotten a great education, the politics and arrogance of the School Board have gotten totally out of hand. Floris has been railroaded too many times, and our community is just plain tired now. I'll stay here until my youngest graduates and then I will let out a big sigh of relief. I blame the FCPS School Board, in particular Mr. Stu Gibson, and the SL PTA President for creating the biggest debacle I have ever seen in my 20 year experience with this school system

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/83311.html

As an 06 graduate of SL in the "partier crowd" I never witnessed any drugs other than marijuana at SL parties. If we went to other schools' parties, there were definately harder drugs going on. Obviously this is just personal experience, but it is truth,

I also think that Stu Gibson has single handedly did more harm to FCPS than all other adverse conditions combined. He needs to be booted off the board in the next elections, if he is not recalled before.

Floris Mom of 16 Years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Sick of This:
>
> You are right. This bitterness will last for many
> many years. I have two more years in this school
> system until my last child graduates. And
> personally I can't wait. While I do believe that
> my children have gotten a great education, the
> politics and arrogance of the School Board have
> gotten totally out of hand. Floris has been
> railroaded too many times, and our community is
> just plain tired now. I'll stay here until my
> youngest graduates and then I will let out a big
> sigh of relief. I blame the FCPS School Board, in
> particular Mr. Stu Gibson, and the SL PTA
> President for creating the biggest debacle I have
> ever seen in my 20 year experience with this
> school system

How can that happen? SL is closer to this area than Marshall. Did they not catch them with the closest school rule?


Sick of This Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really think that everyone should stop this mud
> slinging back and forth. It is counter
> productive. These bad feelings are going to last
> for a very long time. I have a friend who is
> choosing the IB Program for her daughter. She
> lives in Chantilly Highlands. Because of all the
> animosity with SL and the poor handling of the
> redistricting she is pupil placing her daughter to
> Marshall! She would rather drive her daughter all
> the way to Tysons than put her in SL because of
> the bitterness that remains very heavy here in the
> Western County. In the end, we will all do what
> is right for our children, whether we move, pupil
> place the kids to continue AP, give SL a try, or
> get our children completely away from this mess
> and take them to Tysons!!!

TJHSST Student Named Siemens National Winner;
Lake Braddock Secondary Recognized for AP Performance

http://www.fcps.edu/suptapps/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=800

www.fcps.edu/suptapps/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=800

No chance of that happening at SL with no AP