> ---------
> There is a shortage of elementary school space. It
> makes more sense to convert the largest high
> schools to secondary schools with the 2,000 HS
> capacity FCPS suddenly endorses (range of
> 1650-2350 is doable) and convert smaller, "excess"
> middle schools to elementary schools.


Even better - close down schools which have been failing AYP for years and re-use them

for example Hughes MS - close it and use it for affordable housing, an ESOL magnet or an admin building

in fact- stop worrying about capacity and start worrying about performance

- why is Hughes still failing AYP?
- why does SLHS have so few students taking SAT and why are they achieving such low scores?

I'd rather kids were stacked 25 deep if they learnt something!

reuse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------
> > There is a shortage of elementary school space.
> It
> > makes more sense to convert the largest high
> > schools to secondary schools with the 2,000 HS
> > capacity FCPS suddenly endorses (range of
> > 1650-2350 is doable) and convert smaller,
> "excess"
> > middle schools to elementary schools.
>
>
> Even better - close down schools which have been
> failing AYP for years and re-use them
>
> for example Hughes MS - close it and use it for
> affordable housing, an ESOL magnet or an admin
> building
>
> in fact- stop worrying about capacity and start
> worrying about performance
>
> - why is Hughes still failing AYP?
> - why does SLHS have so few students taking SAT
> and why are they achieving such low scores?
>
> I'd rather kids were stacked 25 deep if they
> learnt something!


As the SB looks at moving and shifting students from here to there, I think watchdog groups need to keep an eye on Gibson and others who talk about why they'd never want another TJ in the county (due to the home school brain drain.) Last year about 50 SL students pupil placed (offered admission and accepted) a spot at TJ. He is so hot to boost performance numbers at struggling schools (like SL) I can just picture him wanting to close TJ to keep their top math/science performers at their home schools. The fact that TJ is considered the #1 school in the country won't phase them....afterall, all FFX County schools are all excellent in their book.

"I think you hate IB because you know your kids could never hack the diploma, which is all your limited brain can process about it. I think you may have had some run-in with IB in the past and are chewing sour grapes into a pulp about it. I'll bet you're pushing loads of watered-down AP courses on your poor kids so you can crow about them when they get into college. But God help your kids once they get there." says Soap Opera Fan.

Riiight, only IB students (or is it diploma students only) do well in college. The other 95% of high school graduates, God help them, they all flounder. I actually have come to enjoy it when the pro-RD folks express these sentiments. It only helps the other side, aka the correct one.

really? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I think you hate IB because you know your kids
> could never hack the diploma, which is all your
> limited brain can process about it. I think you
> may have had some run-in with IB in the past and
> are chewing sour grapes into a pulp about it. I'll
> bet you're pushing loads of watered-down AP
> courses on your poor kids so you can crow about
> them when they get into college. But God help your
> kids once they get there." says Soap Opera Fan.
>
> Riiight, only IB students (or is it diploma
> students only) do well in college. The other 95%
> of high school graduates, God help them, they all
> flounder. I actually have come to enjoy it when
> the pro-RD folks express these sentiments. It only
> helps the other side, aka the correct one.


Soap Opera Fan needs to lighten up. No need for telling people to chew sour grapes into a pulp about the IB. For the umpteeth time, there are differences between the AP vs IB programs and everyone is entitled to his or own opinions about the AP vs IB programs on this thread.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> really? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "I think you hate IB because you know your kids
> > could never hack the diploma, which is all your
> > limited brain can process about it. I think you
> > may have had some run-in with IB in the past
> and
> > are chewing sour grapes into a pulp about it.
> I'll
> > bet you're pushing loads of watered-down AP
> > courses on your poor kids so you can crow about
> > them when they get into college. But God help
> your
> > kids once they get there." says Soap Opera Fan.
> >
> > Riiight, only IB students (or is it diploma
> > students only) do well in college. The other
> 95%
> > of high school graduates, God help them, they
> all
> > flounder. I actually have come to enjoy it when
> > the pro-RD folks express these sentiments. It
> only
> > helps the other side, aka the correct one.
>
>
> Soap Opera Fan needs to lighten up. No need for
> telling people to chew sour grapes into a pulp
> about the IB. For the umpteeth time, there are
> differences between the AP vs IB programs and
> everyone is entitled to his or own opinions about
> the AP vs IB programs on this thread.

Problem is, FR is stating things as fact, not opinion. She is totally off-base over several items. There are differences, but she chooses to pick "differences" that don't exist. You will remain eternally Baffled if you keep listening to her.

SoapOperaFan Wrote:
> "... we all know you hate IB every which way ..."

How many times do I have to write this? No, I certainly do not "hate IB every which way." It is a good programme the 5-7% of students who will earn the full IB Diploma, those who seek a "comprehensive rigorous education emphasizing analytical thinking, reading and writing skills with an international perspective. It is an advanced level college preparatory program open to highly motivated 11th and 12th grade students who seek academic rigor. A student can earn a full IB diploma by completing courses in 6 areas – English, foreign language, social studies, science, math, and elective. Beyond completing the course requirements, diploma students are required to engage in community service, individual research, and Theory of Knowledge class. Students may also choose to earn IB certificates for individual IB courses."

In contrast, "The Advanced Placement (AP) program provides rigorous academic coursework in the major subject fields, with course content designed at a college level. Courses are offered in English, social studies, science, foreign languages, math and fine arts. ... AP courses are open to any student who is interested in academic rigor."

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OHSICS/advepd/advepd.htm

I call your attention to two major differences:
1) IB is college PREP; AP is college LEVEL.
2) IB costs a lot more.

---------
> "...There are no 'full time IB coordinators.' "

I refer you to pages 38 and 40 of the "Fairfax County Public Schools—FY 2008 Approved Program Budget."
- Number of AP staff positions to support the sixteen AP high schools and 36,289 students in them: 2.7.
- Number of IB staff positions to support the eight IB high schools and 14,858 students in them: 9.0.

------------
> "... the "AP diploma" benefits a mere tiny percentage ..."

SURPRISE! We agree! "Fairfax County Public Schools recognizes students who take a minimum of 5 AP courses with a score of at least a 3 on each AP exam with an AP Diploma." So these kids get a seal on their diploma that no one else in the world recognizes. So what? Get rid of the whole "AP Diploma" concept, unique to FCPS and something that NO ONE CARES ABOUT!

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OHSICS/advepd/advepd.htm
------
> "... IB standards are kept high, unlike AP standards.
> The only way schools know that their teachers are
> teaching AP to the appropriate standards is
> whether kids pass the tests after the fact. ...."

Without resorting to vacuous insults, may I suggest you are not as familiar with AP as you think? I refer you to:
https://apcourseaudit.epiconline.org/index.php
"The AP Course Audit was created at the request of secondary school and college and university members of the College Board who sought a means to provide teachers and administrators with clear guidelines on the curricular and resource requirements for AP courses. The AP Course Audit also helps colleges and universities better interpret secondary school courses marked "AP" on students' transcripts. To receive authorization from the College Board to label a 2007-2008 course "AP," schools must demonstrate how their courses meet or exceed these requirements."

Thank you, FR. SoapOperaFan, I shall not remain Eternally baffled.

taxpayer Wrote:
> If a contract with the IBO means a transfer of the
> Instructional services function of a Virginia
> school division for any classroom to an outside
> entity then public hearings are required. Is
> this the case with IB HL? FCPS has no control
> over the actual instruction but does run the
> human resource function ...
>
> That issue of IB v AP might be larger than it
> seems.
--------
Perhaps some of the lawyers on this thread will wish to download at least two documents from the IBO website. I am curious if the very recent US Supreme Court decision reiterating the supremacy of US law affects issues like accommodations for disabilities being adjudicated in Geneva.

-----------
Excerpts from: "Rules for IB World Schools: Diploma Programme"

"... Article 5: Responsibilities of schools ...
5.2 Schools are responsible for the quality of teaching of the Diploma Programme, and they undertake to hold the IB Organization harmless with regard to any legal action taken by candidates or their legal guardians as a result of any shortcomings.

5.3 Schools must ensure that the Diploma Programme is properly funded, is effectively delivered and is administered according to the regulations and procedures of the IB Organization. Each school must appoint a Diploma Programme coordinator to administer the programme and give him or her the opportunity to attend training workshops that have been approved by the IB Organization....

5.6 It is the school’s responsibility to determine whether it can enroll a candidate with special needs into the Diploma Programme. Schools must ensure that legal guardians and candidates themselves are aware of the special arrangements for assessment made by the IB Organization for candidates with special needs. A school must not make special arrangements for assessment without the IB Organization’s prior approval. ...

Article 9: Copyright in materials submitted to the IB Organization
9.1 Candidates retain copyright in all materials submitted for assessment purposes, but by submitting those materials, and subject to article 9.2, candidates thereby grant the IB Organization a non-exclusive, charge-free, worldwide licence, for the duration of the statutory copyright protection, to reproduce submitted materials in any medium for assessment, educational, training and/or promotional purposes relating to the IB Organization’s activities, or to those related activities of which it approves. ...

Article 13: Governing law
Swiss law governs these Rules for IB World Schools: Diploma Programme and all other documents relating to authorization to teach the Diploma Programme.

Article 14: Arbitration of disputes Any dispute arising from or in connection with these Rules for IB World Schools: Diploma Programme or any other document relating to the authorization to teach the Diploma Programme shall be finally settled by one arbitrator in accordance with the Swiss Rules of International Arbitration of the Swiss Chambers of Commerce. The seat of the arbitration shall be Geneva, Switzerland. The proceedings shall be confidential and the language of the arbitration shall be English."


---------------
Excerpts from: "General regulations: Diploma Programme"

"... Article 6: Communication with the IB Organization
Except where provided otherwise in these general regulations, candidates and their legal guardian(s) must use the school’s Diploma Programme coordinator as the intermediary for any communication with the IB Organization. ...

Article 21: Definition of special needs
A special need is any permanent or temporary diagnosed need that could put a candidate at a disadvantage and prevent him or her from being able to demonstrate skills and knowledge adequately.
Article 22: Applicable procedure
22.1 Before candidates enroll in the Diploma Programme, the school is responsible for verifying whether the programme includes any requirements that are incompatible with any known diagnosed special needs. ...

Article 33: Governing law
Swiss law governs these general regulations and all other procedures relating to the assessment requirements.

Article 34: Arbitration
Any dispute arising from or in connection with these general regulations and/or the handbook that has not been finally resolved by means of the reconsideration or appeal procedures defined in articles 3 and 32 of these general regulations, or which is not subject to those procedures, shall be finally settled by one arbitrator in accordance with the Swiss Rules of International Arbitration of the Swiss Chambers of Commerce. The seat of the arbitration shall be Geneva, Switzerland. The proceedings shall be confidential and the language of the arbitration shall be English.

Article 35: Entry into force and transitory rules
...The IB Organization may amend these general regulations from time to time. Each amended version applies to all candidates enrolling in the Diploma Programme after the date of entry into force of the amended version."

That pretty much blows the lawsuit out of the water.

Equity Wrote:
> That would be OK as long as in this era of budget
> cuts SL is willing to downsize its staff to the
> level found in other schools of its size, not
> counting extra staffing for Special Ed.
>
> APorIBMom mentioned above a "report showed major
> disparities within FCPS. Kids in some schools were
> getting a $7,000/year education, while kids in
> others were getting a $12,000/year education."
> Does anyone have a copy of that report? Where does
> SLHS rate in comparison to Oakton, Madison,
> Herdon, etc?
------
I have a copy of the 2002 Gibson report - Is that the report to which you are referring?

2002 Gibson Report / Operating Expense per Pupil / Pupil-Staff Ratio
SOUTH LAKES HIGH / $6,363.56 / 12.9
CHANTILLY HIGH / $5,620.07 / 14.3
MADISON HIGH / $5,532.05 / 14.7
MCLEAN HIGH / $5,470.63 / 15
HERNDON HIGH / $5,242.36 / 14.3
WESTFIELD HIGH / $4,928.39 / 16
OAKTON HIGH / $4,898.00 / 15.2
LANGLEY HIGH / $4,887.72 / 15.1

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you, FR. SoapOperaFan, I shall not remain
> Eternally baffled.


Eternally Baffled

Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That pretty much blows the lawsuit out of the
> water.

So IBO is the ultimate authority not FCPS, VDOE, US DOE? That means IBO is supplanting Instructionl Services so NOT having a public hearing is a BIG problem especially when parents/citizens pleaded for instructional services to particpate in such a venue. IBO might not allow students with disabilities to participate ? That violates US law [discrimination] and could be a really bad situation for FCPS if a student who is twice exceptional was denied equal access. Nasty business here --

More nasty business -- FCPS staffers wrote a report rating African Americans lower on morality [subjective measurements] and spent mega time presenting it to the school board as part of their essential life skills. I know staff [Farlings dept can be crass] and have heard slurs etc but this is really over the top.

With all the budget problems you'd think the board would be combing the programs and invesigating all sources of inefficiencies - instead they're fooling around with farling and this garbage. Is this what she's paid to do as an Asst Supt?

Are you people crazy?! All of you anti RD are living in lala land. Have most of you forgotten your own educational experience? I doubt all of you attended a better public school system. It must not have been too bad since you all ended up here in one of the top PUBLIC school districts and a county that has the hightest national median income level. All of the high schools involved are in the top 5% percent. This anti RD comes down to not wanting your children to sit next to someone who receives a free lunch or not being part of a top athletic program. Let's not even start the whole AP vs. IB programs. If you think your children can't thrive at a high school like South Lakes then what are they going to do at college that is in a city or out in the real world when you aren't there hand holding them through every decision.

If you want that much control over where you want your kids to go to school - it's called PRIVATE. I am sure Flint Hill, Bullis, Holten Arms, etc... would love to take your money.

SLSupporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you people crazy?! All of you anti RD are
> living in lala land. Have most of you forgotten
> your own educational experience? I doubt all of
> you attended a better public school system. It
> must not have been too bad since you all ended up
> here in one of the top PUBLIC school districts and
> a county that has the hightest national median
> income level. All of the high schools involved
> are in the top 5% percent. This anti RD comes
> down to not wanting your children to sit next to
> someone who receives a free lunch or not being
> part of a top athletic program. Let's not even
> start the whole AP vs. IB programs. If you think
> your children can't thrive at a high school like
> South Lakes then what are they going to do at
> college that is in a city or out in the real world
> when you aren't there hand holding them through
> every decision.
>
> If you want that much control over where you want
> your kids to go to school - it's called PRIVATE.
> I am sure Flint Hill, Bullis, Holten Arms, etc...
> would love to take your money.

It is NOT about who my child sits next to. It is about jerking us around yet again! How many high schools has YOUR neighborhood been sent to in the last 10 years? This is our 3RD!! My child is not even effected and I know this is wrong. All we want is some stability. And by the way my child has a diverse group of friends both culturally and economically, and I am thrilled with this.

SLSupporter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you people crazy?! All of you anti RD are
> living in lala land. Have most of you forgotten
> your own educational experience? I doubt all of
> you attended a better public school system. It
> must not have been too bad since you all ended up
> here in one of the top PUBLIC school districts and
> a county that has the hightest national median
> income level. All of the high schools involved
> are in the top 5% percent. This anti RD comes
> down to not wanting your children to sit next to
> someone who receives a free lunch or not being
> part of a top athletic program. Let's not even
> start the whole AP vs. IB programs. If you think
> your children can't thrive at a high school like
> South Lakes then what are they going to do at
> college that is in a city or out in the real world
> when you aren't there hand holding them through
> every decision.
>
> If you want that much control over where you want
> your kids to go to school - it's called PRIVATE.
> I am sure Flint Hill, Bullis, Holten Arms, etc...
> would love to take your money.

Ho hum, yet another SL fan pulling out the race card. Give it a rest. It has NOTHING to do with the people already at the school.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoapOperaFan Wrote:
> > "... we all know you hate IB every which way
> ..."
>
> How many times do I have to write this? No, I
> certainly do not "hate IB every which way." It is
> a good programme the 5-7% of students who will
> earn the full IB Diploma, those who seek a
> "comprehensive rigorous education emphasizing
> analytical thinking, reading and writing skills
> with an international perspective. It is an
> advanced level college preparatory program open to
> highly motivated 11th and 12th grade students who
> seek academic rigor. A student can earn a full IB
> diploma by completing courses in 6 areas –
> English, foreign language, social studies,
> science, math, and elective. Beyond completing the
> course requirements, diploma students are required
> to engage in community service, individual
> research, and Theory of Knowledge class. Students
> may also choose to earn IB certificates for
> individual IB courses."
>
> In contrast, "The Advanced Placement (AP) program
> provides rigorous academic coursework in the major
> subject fields, with course content designed at a
> college level. Courses are offered in English,
> social studies, science, foreign languages, math
> and fine arts. ... AP courses are open to any
> student who is interested in academic rigor."
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OHSICS/advepd/advepd.htm
>
> I call your attention to two major differences:
> 1) IB is college PREP; AP is college LEVEL.
> 2) IB costs a lot more.
>
> ---------
> > "...There are no 'full time IB coordinators.' "
>
> I refer you to pages 38 and 40 of the "Fairfax
> County Public Schools—FY 2008 Approved Program
> Budget."
> - Number of AP staff positions to support the
> sixteen AP high schools and 36,289 students in
> them: 2.7.
> - Number of IB staff positions to support the
> eight IB high schools and 14,858 students in them:
> 9.0.
>
> ------------
> > "... the "AP diploma" benefits a mere tiny
> percentage ..."
>
> SURPRISE! We agree! "Fairfax County Public Schools
> recognizes students who take a minimum of 5 AP
> courses with a score of at least a 3 on each AP
> exam with an AP Diploma." So these kids get a seal
> on their diploma that no one else in the world
> recognizes. So what? Get rid of the whole "AP
> Diploma" concept, unique to FCPS and something
> that NO ONE CARES ABOUT!
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OHSICS/advepd/advepd.htm
> ------
> > "... IB standards are kept high, unlike AP
> standards.
> > The only way schools know that their teachers
> are
> > teaching AP to the appropriate standards is
> > whether kids pass the tests after the fact.
> ...."
>
> Without resorting to vacuous insults, may I
> suggest you are not as familiar with AP as you
> think? I refer you to:
> https://apcourseaudit.epiconline.org/index.php
> "The AP Course Audit was created at the request of
> secondary school and college and university
> members of the College Board who sought a means to
> provide teachers and administrators with clear
> guidelines on the curricular and resource
> requirements for AP courses. The AP Course Audit
> also helps colleges and universities better
> interpret secondary school courses marked "AP" on
> students' transcripts. To receive authorization
> from the College Board to label a 2007-2008 course
> "AP," schools must demonstrate how their courses
> meet or exceed these requirements."

Did you read the recent Washington Post article that demonstrated that AP teachers share syllabi so they can "pass" this audit??? Having a syllabus and actually teaching the courses are two different things, FR. You should know that. And if you've talked to as many AP teachers as I have, you'd know that they complain mightily that parents shove kids into those courses who shouldn't be there.

And IB is college LEVEL, duh. What a stupid statement you made. IB also is college PREP, which AP, unfortunately, is not, because of how much those courses get watered down by kids who have to "pass" the test so the schools can crow about their great statistics. (That's my blathering to your blathering,in kind.)

And IB doesn't cost a LOT more. You're talking nickels and dimes in differences here, based on a $1B+ budget. As for teacher ratios, you're full it, once again. I'm sure you know how ratios are really determined, but you do love to purport that IB costs so much more in teachers by flouting ratios that have nothing to do with IB.

You so love to quote the IBO and College Board marketing PR on how fab they are, as if any of that means anything in real life (you've done it a dozen times on this board), but what the College Board website lists in its touting bullets as what kids "get" with AP is precisely and exactly what kids who take ANY high school course SHOULD "get." Nothing special that AP gives them that high school shouldn't be doing anyway. And the most laughable thing of all? Check out what half of each descriptive paragraph in the FCPS course offerings has to say about each AP course. Their purpose? Preparing them for AP tests! Hardly anything about what's IN the course or what they TEACH. It should turn your stomach. If you want to change something about AP, begin with how FCPS promotes it!

You remain full of **AP. What is your story??? What's in it for you? You don't even have a kid in an IB school or going to one. Why do you love fomenting fear and loathing about IB?

The majority of county residents want the redistricting to happen. A 10-2 vote FOR RD. This was also an election year and residents re-affirmed School Board members during the RD debate.

There are Federal and State mandantes on redistricting to balance public schools in a systems. The only parents who don't want RD to happen are those that want to pick and choose which county school there kids will attend. Public county schools don't work that way. If you want to pick your kids school you have the option of private schools or home schooling.

My suburban high school that I attended in high school is so superior to South Lakes and most other FCPS high schools that it isn't funny. And it isn't New Trier, either - it was in a much less swanky community, with scores almost that equal to New Trier. It is a small school district where they have no teachers unions, pay good teachers well and great teachers even better, and they have virtually no drop-outs, with all but a handful not going on to college. Average ACT's are about 26, which relates to about 1200 on the SAT (old sections), a fairly decent slug ahead of South Lakes, but more meaningful than at FCPS schools because everyone in the school actually takes these tests. And a bad or even above average principal would last three weeks in the community - it just wouldn't be tolerated. This isn't to drone on about the school - there are 15 or so or more others like it in the Chicago area - and schools in smaller districts in New York and Philly areas have much the same experience - but the whole experience in FCPS schools, is somewhat less than exciting to those not raised around here. There's a lot of money and resource spent here that doesn't appear related to rigorous classroom performance. And FCPS has more money per capita than my high school district. Results count. I don't see them to the degree I would expect.

Let's also be clear - a good student with goals and aspirations and sound home direction can do exceedingly well at South Lakes. Ironically, maybe a bit better in the college derby because it is easier to stand out. But to suggest that it mirrors the experience of those of us from smaller school districts in the North is facile. What really makes a difference is the experience for the average student - an average student is less likely to get lost in the shuffle at the high school I attended - teachers are excellent - the mean level of teaching is higher, discipline problems and distractions are less (although drugs and alcohol are problems everywhere), traditional, hired wired math and writing skills are taught, and simply put, the lost in the shuffle factor is less. Kids in the middle of the class at my high school go to Michigan and Wisconsin and Indiana (Illinois is difficult because of its tuition break, better be in the top 20%) - not something you would see in FCPS except of course at TJ. And the top of the class goes to schools like you would expect. Expectations are higher - from the principal on down. Again, South Lakes doesn't deserve all the knocks it gets, but believe me, it is a hard sell for those of us with educational experiences with good, small school districts. Perhaps your point is that my educational expectations are unrealistic. Maybe so. But I have seen excellence done with less money, so it makes me wonder.

Since most IB schools are failing and are under capacity, close them all and convert them into affordable housing for Fairfax County employees. For those who want IB get on the next plane to europe.
As far as the SB is concerned, PUT THEM ON THE SAME PLANE WITH A ONE WAY TICKET.

Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The majority of county residents want the
> redistricting to happen. A 10-2 vote FOR RD. This
> was also an election year and residents
> re-affirmed School Board members during the RD
> debate.
>
> There are Federal and State mandantes on
> redistricting to balance public schools in a
> systems. The only parents who don't want RD to
> happen are those that want to pick and choose
> which county school there kids will attend.
> Public county schools don't work that way. If you
> want to pick your kids school you have the option
> of private schools or home schooling.


Lopter you make a very good point, therefore the school board better RD SOCO.

Source: FCPS "FY 2009 BUDGET INFORMATION FORM," reply to Question # 4
AP Tests 2007 – 13,856 students and 28,598 tests
IB Tests 2007 – 2,146 students and 5,488 tests

Source:
Fairfax County Public Schools FY 2008 Approved Program Budget
p. 38: AP in 16 schools for FY 2007 had 2.6 staff positions and cost $2.1M
p. 40: IB for 8 schools FY 2007 had 9 staff positions and cost $2.0M

Simple math:
Cost per AP exam: $74
Cost per AP student:$153

Cost per IB exam: $366
Cost per IB Student: $937

More simple math: In 2007 in FCPS:
IB cost six times as much more student compared to AP.
IB costs five times as much per exam.

Most reasonable people would agree that when something costs five or six times more than something else, it costs "a lot more."

refer you to pages 38 and 40 of the "Fairfax
> County Public Schools—FY 2008 Approved Program
> Budget."
> - Number of AP staff positions to support the
> sixteen AP high schools and 36,289 students in
> them: 2.7.
> - Number of IB staff positions to support the
> eight IB high schools and 14,858 students in them:
> 9.0.
>


What a waste of staff years and money for IB schools CLOSE THEM ASAP

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Source: FCPS "FY 2009 BUDGET INFORMATION FORM,"
> reply to Question # 4
> AP Tests 2007 – 13,856 students and 28,598 tests
> IB Tests 2007 – 2,146 students and 5,488 tests
>
> Source:
> Fairfax County Public Schools FY 2008 Approved
> Program Budget
> p. 38: AP in 16 schools for FY 2007 had 2.6 staff
> positions and cost $2.1M
> p. 40: IB for 8 schools FY 2007 had 9 staff
> positions and cost $2.0M
>
> Simple math:
> Cost per AP exam: $74
> Cost per AP student:$153
>
> Cost per IB exam: $366
> Cost per IB Student: $937
>
> More simple math: In 2007 in FCPS:
> IB cost six times as much more student compared to
> AP.
> IB costs five times as much per exam.
>
> Most reasonable people would agree that when
> something costs five or six times more than
> something else, it costs "a lot more."


SoapOperaFan,

Quoting you, care to chew sour grapes to a pulp over the cost of the AP or the IB?

Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The majority of county residents want the
> redistricting to happen. A 10-2 vote FOR RD. This
> was also an election year and residents
> re-affirmed School Board members during the RD
> debate.
>
> There are Federal and State mandantes on
> redistricting to balance public schools in a
> systems. The only parents who don't want RD to
> happen are those that want to pick and choose
> which county school there kids will attend.
> Public county schools don't work that way. If you
> want to pick your kids school you have the option
> of private schools or home schooling.

Complete BS. It is grossly inaccurate to say that the majority of county residents want the redistricting to happen. The majority of county residents simply don't give a shit because they are not directly affected. The only county residents whose redistricting opinions are even relevant are those who were affected by it.

You are right that it was an election year. Gee, I wonder why they waited until AFTER the election to make this redistricting public.

Actually... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> VERY interesting point. There is obvious
> grade
> > inflation in IB schools. That would be
> difficult
> > to duplicate in an AP school.
>
> Your statement is completely erroneous and not
> based on anything.
> I know teachers in both IB and AP schools. Grade
> inflation is more rampant in AP schools due to
> more parental pressure on the whole within AP
> schools.

Um, well, you might want to look at the average GPA's in IB schools vs AP schools. Let us know what you find.

>>>Why do you love fomenting fear and loathing about IB?<<<

Why are you so afraid of the truth about IB? Why shouldn't EVERYONE in this county, ALL taxpayers, know exactly what they are paying for? FCPS is pushing the board of supervisors to raise the tax rate so they can get an additional $66 million this year, to raise the budget to over $2.2 BILLION.

IB costs more than 5 times the amount of AP! Why shouldn't we all know that? Can anyone explain why we have to have so many of these very expensive IB programs?

Could we limit IB to only 1 or 2 schools and save enough to prevent the increase in class size for ALL students? Wouldn't that be nice?

>>>Simple math:
> Cost per AP exam: $74
> Cost per AP student:$153
>
> Cost per IB exam: $366
> Cost per IB Student: $937
>

That is astonishing. Every single taxpayer in this county should be aware of those figures.

SoapOperaFan said:

>>>What's in it for you? You don't even have a kid in an IB school or going to one.<<<

We shouldn't care about the kids in the county, and the education that they are receiving unless it personally effects us? Wow. That sounds rather selfish and self centered.

There are many people who deeply care about children and their education, even if never effects them personally. Teachers come to mind, many of them care about the education of children other than their own. Many other people just care deeply about children and want them to have what they deserve from the government educational programs. Many children can't afford any other education, and they don't have anyone to speak for them when they are stuck with poor programs that don't educate them.

Some people care. I am sorry that you are not among them.

Forum Reader,

Yes, I was referring to the Gibson report. Is there any way that you can create a pdf file or web site and then post a link of that web site on this thread, so that people can see the operating expense per student (as of 2002) at all of the FCPS schools, including the elementary and middle schools? I think that would be an eye-opener for many families. Also, was there a separate table with average per pupil expenses that included the higher facilities expenditures per pupil at some schools? I recall a table that had higher per pupil numbers.

Forum Reader Wrote:
> I have a copy of the 2002 Gibson report - Is that
> the report to which you are referring?
>
> 2002 Gibson Report / Operating Expense per
> Pupil / Pupil-Staff Ratio
> SOUTH LAKES HIGH / $6,363.56 / 12.9
> CHANTILLY HIGH / $5,620.07 / 14.3
> MADISON HIGH / $5,532.05 / 14.7
> MCLEAN HIGH / $5,470.63 / 15
> HERNDON HIGH / $5,242.36 / 14.3
> WESTFIELD HIGH / $4,928.39 / 16
> OAKTON HIGH / $4,898.00 / 15.2
> LANGLEY HIGH / $4,887.72 / 15.1

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >> VERY interesting point. There is obvious
> > grade
> > > inflation in IB schools. That would be
> > difficult
> > > to duplicate in an AP school.
> >
> > Your statement is completely erroneous and not
> > based on anything.
> > I know teachers in both IB and AP schools.
> Grade
> > inflation is more rampant in AP schools due to
> > more parental pressure on the whole within AP
> > schools.
>
> Um, well, you might want to look at the average
> GPA's in IB schools vs AP schools. Let us know
> what you find.


Um, well, you might show the average GPA's that you are stipulating mean something. I have talked with the teachers, and the parents who feel they should have a say in their child's grades.

Why would it be difficult in AP schools in comparison to IB schools? When actually it is easier in AP schools to inflate class grades since the AP score isn't at all tied into the GPA. IB have both internal assessments and external assessments that get correlated into the grade, during the course of the year. And yes, the score at the end isn't known until after grade is final, but for AP you have no (collegeboard) assessments prior to the final grade. Often you will find kids AP scores in no way correlates with the final grade...getting an A in an AP course should mean they score at least a 4 or 5, not simply a passing score of 3.

Neen wrote

We shouldn't care about the kids in the county, and the education that they are receiving unless it personally effects us? Wow. That sounds rather selfish and self centered.

There are many people who deeply care about children and their education, even if never effects them personally. Teachers come to mind, many of them care about the education of children other than their own. Many other people just care deeply about children and want them to have what they deserve from the government educational programs. Many children can't afford any other education, and they don't have anyone to speak for them when they are stuck with poor programs that don't educate them.

Some people care. I am sorry that you are not among them.


Neen is right, the bottom line is the education of all students in FCPS and the proper management of the FCPS system.

The current SB has failed to do the following;


Improve SAT scores for all FCPS students.

Reduce drop out rates in the FCPS system.

Make sure that NO CHILD IS LEFT BEHIND.

Make sure that the minority report shows improvement for all minority students.


The current SB has failed to properly manage the FCPS system by;


Having to many under capacity and over capacity schools.

Having to many students in classrooms.

Having an out of control CIP.

Having to many IB schools. 8 out of 24

Unwilling to have two TJ schools.


What needs to be done. We need to remember what this SB has done and make sure they are voted out in 2011.

We need to come up with who are willing to run against the SB in 2011.

We need to attend SB and BOS meetings or watch these meetings on TV in order to know what evil plans they are hatching.

We need to call and email the SB/BOS and voice your opinion.

We need to support all groups that stand for what is right and take on the SB on issues.

Hoping for big changes in 2011.

YOU HAVE TO CHECK THIS ARTICLE OUT.......CAN YOU BELIEVE WE ARE WASTING MONEY ON THIS STUDY?



http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=95472&paper=62&cat=109

Wants are not needs. The school board gets over 50% of my local property tax dollars plsu another portion for capital projects debt service. I expect my money to be used wisely - not paid to outsource instructional services for FCPS. If people want IB then they should have to pay the cost differential for their own child.

Problem? FCPS did a sales job for IB and stuck it in schools with poor families in some cases. And why those schools? Because FCPS itself did a cruddy job so they paid IB for training etc. Now if most Flros/Fox Mill parents want a program that is THE fiscally responsible solution then why is FCPS fighting it?

Vanderburg/Hemenway etc can fund IB themselves. Blight strike force versus IB fees? FCPS is taking away resources for all residents in this county. Is it doing a good job? No.

Most people asking for 100% funding of the school budget never even analyzed where the money goes. I've looked and it is sad what is being done to the BOS and everyone in this county.

icantbelieveit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YOU HAVE TO CHECK THIS ARTICLE OUT.......CAN YOU
> BELIEVE WE ARE WASTING MONEY ON THIS STUDY?
>
>
>
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=95472&paper=62&cat=109

Farling is a LIFER. Anyone who would stand up and talk about less morality among african _americans is an idiot. She's in charge of special ed, guidance, student services. Now they have Suydam running special ed under Farling. All are less than moral- beneficiaries of the beaurocracy who might be canned if in smaller school systems.

This school system cares more about PR and other crap than actually doing a good job.

The majority of county residents want redistricting.

Fact:

1) In a six month period last year a petition against redistricting only had 2500 names. There are 1,200,000 residents in the County. so 2500 would be less than one percent.

2) County residents elected School Board members in favor of redistricting.

3) School board members voted 10-2 for redistricting.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader,
>
> Yes, I was referring to the Gibson report. Is
> there any way that you can create a pdf file or
> web site and then post a link of that web site on
> this thread, so that people can see the operating
> expense per student (as of 2002) at all of the
> FCPS schools, including the elementary and middle
> schools? I think that would be an eye-opener for
> many families. Also, was there a separate table
> with average per pupil expenses that included the
> higher facilities expenditures per pupil at some
> schools? I recall a table that had higher per
> pupil numbers.
>
---------
I think the current budget data you are looking for can be found in the "FY 2009 Proposed Detail Budget" on the FCPS web site. [These budget sheets appear to have been created prior to the redistricting.]

HUGE amounts of data. Cluster 8 alone is 127 pages; page 113 indicates the FY 2009 proposed budget for "INTL BACCALAUREATE" for South Lakes is $150,042 and 1.5 positions.

-------------------------

The "Detail Budgets" for the individual schools do indicate significant per pupil expenditure differences between high schools:

FY 2009 / Operating Budget / Number Students / Dollars budgeted per student
South Lakes $11,738,522 / 1389 / $8,451
Chantilly $19,757,576 / 2753 / $7,177
Herndon $14,297,458 / 2160 / $6,619
Madison $11,770,297 / 1868 / $6,301
Oakton $14,113,438 / 2277 / $6,198
Westfield $18,806,866 / 3050 / $6,166
Langley $12,545,913 / 2084 / $6,020

Staffing ratios (including administrators, counselors, etc) likewise vary greatly between high schools. HOWEVER as South Lakes defenders have pointed out, that school has a large Special Education population. To be as fair as possible when calculating "regular" staffing ratios at these high schools, subtract not only the Special Education students but also staff members in the following budget categories:
"SP VOC ED"
"CATEGORY A-SE"
"CATEGORY B-SE"
"TCHR SPECIAL ED"
"INSTRL ASSIST SP ED"

I may have missed one or two line items or transposed a number somewhere, but the staffing ratios EXCLUDING Special Ed are close to the following:
FY 2009 Non-SE Staff / Non-SE Students / Non-SE Staffing Ratio
South Lakes / 129 / 1,184 / 9.2
Chantilly / 232 / 2,546 / 11.0
Herndon / 170 / 2,015 / 11.8
Madison / 145 / 1,746 / 12.0
Oakton / 171 / 2,089 / 12.2
Langley / 158 / 1,952 / 12.4
Westfield / 223 / 2,812 / 12.6

icantbelieveit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YOU HAVE TO CHECK THIS ARTICLE OUT...CAN YOU BELIEVE WE ARE WASTING MONEY ON
> THIS STUDY?
>
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=95472&paper=62&cat=109

I actually watched this travesty of presentation to the SB. This "study" has all the validity of a taroh card reading. (I apologize in advance to taroh card readers.)

Hone was properly outraged.

A survey of teachers opinions of the moral choices of their students!?

No bias could possibly find its way into those responses right?

Why didn't they just do a frenonlogy study on the kids heads?

Were any of these fools sociology majors who might have learned how to properly structure such a study?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> icantbelieveit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > YOU HAVE TO CHECK THIS ARTICLE OUT...CAN YOU
> BELIEVE WE ARE WASTING MONEY ON
> > THIS STUDY?
> >
> >
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=95472&paper=62&cat=109
>
> I actually watched this travesty of presentation
> to the SB. This "study" has all the validity of a
> taroh card reading. (I apologize in advance to
> taroh card readers.)
>
> Hone was properly outraged.
>
> A survey of teachers opinions of the moral choices
> of their students!?
>
> No bias could possibly find its way into those
> responses right?
>
> Why didn't they just do a frenonlogy study on the
> kids heads?
>
> Were any of these fools sociology majors who might
> have learned how to properly structure such a
> study?

Great questions TM. As a teacher in the county I am appalled about this study and embarrassed. Further, I know of no teacher who particpated in the study and never heard of the study until this article.

Since you watched it, who did the study? When did they do it? What were the questions? How was it tabulated? And I have a few dozen more...

Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The majority of county residents want
> redistricting.
>
> Fact:
>
> 1) In a six month period last year a petition
> against redistricting only had 2500 names. There
> are 1,200,000 residents in the County. so 2500
> would be less than one percent.
>
> 2) County residents elected School Board members
> in favor of redistricting.
>
> 3) School board members voted 10-2 for
> redistricting.

a new record - the most retarded analysis on FFxU - a challenge but you made it!

the public meetings showed that the vast majority of people AFFECTED or POTENTIALLY affected were against RD (look at the notes and submissions of the meetings)
- saying that the rest of the county population were pro-RD is a gross distortion with no evidence - most had had NO view because they were just not affected

its like saying that only the people that are against child abuse are those who actively campaign, so the rest of us must be pro-child abuse - when did you stop beating YOUR wife?

In fact the only people pro-RD were the South Lakes community who stood to gain and the Herndon community who got religion when they realized they could get behind a plan which protected them but screwed their neighbors (and they were quite honest about it in break-outs)

see what happens when the board goes for a county wide study - you'll see massive public opposition at a level which will tear the county apart



quit redistricting - face the performance problem

fix the failing schools, reward success

shut down schools failing AYP, stop backfilling failure with warm bodies to fudge the figures

Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The majority of county residents want
> redistricting.
>
> Fact:
>
> 1) In a six month period last year a petition
> against redistricting only had 2500 names. There
> are 1,200,000 residents in the County. so 2500
> would be less than one percent.
>
> 2) County residents elected School Board members
> in favor of redistricting.
>
> 3) School board members voted 10-2 for
> redistricting.


So, by your logic in #1, the absense of a resident signature on a petition means that resident favors redistricting. That is laughable.

As far #2 goes, ignorance is bliss. The majority of the county doesn't even know what the school board does, much less how badly they have been doing it. Your logic suggests the voters put them in office because they were pro-redistricting. Again, quite laughable.

And it is very presumptious of you to think that if they did know about it, they would be in support of you spending their tax dollars on a doomed lawsuit.

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since you watched it, who did the study? When did they do it? What were the
> questions? How was it tabulated? And I have a few dozen more...

I think it was some women related to Special Ed at the central office. The rest of your questions weren't covered in the presentation to the best of my memory.

comma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And it is very presumptious of you to think that
> if they did know about it, they would be in
> support of you spending their tax dollars on a
> doomed lawsuit.

I'm not spending a dime of the taxpayer's money. That is ALL on the school board. If they were competent at their job to begin with, or even now admitted they royally screwed up with this ill-conceived redistricting, the lawsuit never would have not been necessary.

Excuse the typo, it should read "never would have been necessary"

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Source: FCPS "FY 2009 BUDGET INFORMATION FORM,"
> reply to Question # 4
> AP Tests 2007 – 13,856 students and 28,598 tests
> IB Tests 2007 – 2,146 students and 5,488 tests
>
> Source:
> Fairfax County Public Schools FY 2008 Approved
> Program Budget
> p. 38: AP in 16 schools for FY 2007 had 2.6 staff
> positions and cost $2.1M
> p. 40: IB for 8 schools FY 2007 had 9 staff
> positions and cost $2.0M
>
> Simple math:
> Cost per AP exam: $74
> Cost per AP student:$153
>
> Cost per IB exam: $366
> Cost per IB Student: $937
>
> More simple math: In 2007 in FCPS:
> IB cost six times as much more student compared to
> AP.
> IB costs five times as much per exam.
>
> Most reasonable people would agree that when
> something costs five or six times more than
> something else, it costs "a lot more."


Your numbers are bull. Hang it up.

SoapOperaFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Source: FCPS "FY 2009 BUDGET INFORMATION FORM,"
> > reply to Question # 4
> > AP Tests 2007 – 13,856 students and 28,598
> tests
> > IB Tests 2007 – 2,146 students and 5,488 tests
> >
> > Source:
> > Fairfax County Public Schools FY 2008 Approved
> > Program Budget
> > p. 38: AP in 16 schools for FY 2007 had 2.6
> staff
> > positions and cost $2.1M
> > p. 40: IB for 8 schools FY 2007 had 9 staff
> > positions and cost $2.0M
> >
> > Simple math:
> > Cost per AP exam: $74
> > Cost per AP student:$153
> >
> > Cost per IB exam: $366
> > Cost per IB Student: $937
> >
> > More simple math: In 2007 in FCPS:
> > IB cost six times as much more student compared
> to
> > AP.
> > IB costs five times as much per exam.
> >
> > Most reasonable people would agree that when
> > something costs five or six times more than
> > something else, it costs "a lot more."
>
>
> Your numbers are bull. Hang it up.

Furthermore, you're making assumptions about the numbers that have absolutely zero correlation in actual data or fact to "IB" (whatever you mean by that!) and dollars. You have an agenda, too. So how can anyone with an ounce of objectivity believe you?

And you ask whether I care about kids -- you clearly don't give a S*** about kids or you wouldn't be posting bogus numbers and making bogus claims about IB. All you care about is your precious AP programs. Are you a College Board shill??? You haven't got a single little clue about how well kids (who take pre-IB, IB, gen ed) do in IB schools, except for misusing posted statistics. You conveniently ignore the incredible successes at JEB Stuart, for example. And you have no math ability, or you wouldn't be tossing around numbers with no regard for their provenance.

I'm glad I've riled you because I'm sick of your misinformed blather, and of the gullible people willing to listen to you. Thank God the vast majority of people are not as idiotic and illiterate (based on their zillion typos and misspellings) as so many posting on this board. They're not full of the rage that swirls around here -- they're the ones who will really make needed improvements in the schools, because they're the ones who aren't going to throw all the babies out the window with the bathwater.

Well, it appears that the same half-dozen narrow-minded idiots are keeping this thread alive, so I'll exit and leave it to them.

This study on racial morality is positively disturbing.

Every other school district in this country is scrambling to figure out where the failures are and how to fix them. I have read dozens of studys and books on minority underachievement and am yet to stumble on one that talks about morality. Behavior measurements are so subjective and biased, to place some sort of scientific conclusion on them is laughable.

Jack Dale and all of these morons running the student achievement office need to go.

Where the hell is Ralph Cooper and the other members of the MSAOC? Where the hell is the NAACP? These kids desperately need advocacy and they are not getting it. Hone cannot fight this fight alone.

mr e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Watch the school board
> meetings there were many minorities who spoke out
> against redistricting for the same reasons as the
> whites who spoke out against it.

NONE of them were hispanic or black. This IS about race and class. The antis don't want their kids at SL with low-income hispanics and blacks.

One also has to
> wonder why this area has had so much redistricting
> Floris especially ( they were promised Westfeild
> would be their home school).

COULD it be the huge population growth in this part of the county over the last 10-15 years? Ya think?

This law suit has NO merit. It will take money away from all of our kids. CAPS should be ashamed of themselves for wasting taxpayer money that could be better spent on our children in schools - not courtrooms.

a new record!!!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lopter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The majority of county residents want
> > redistricting.
> >
> > Fact:
> >
> > 1) In a six month period last year a petition
> > against redistricting only had 2500 names.
> There
> > are 1,200,000 residents in the County. so 2500
> > would be less than one percent.
> >
> > 2) County residents elected School Board
> members
> > in favor of redistricting.
> >
> > 3) School board members voted 10-2 for
> > redistricting.
>
> a new record - the most retarded analysis on FFxU
> - a challenge but you made it!
>
> the public meetings showed that the vast majority
> of people AFFECTED or POTENTIALLY affected were
> against RD (look at the notes and submissions of
> the meetings)
> - saying that the rest of the county population
> were pro-RD is a gross distortion with no evidence
> - most had had NO view because they were just not
> affected
>
> its like saying that only the people that are
> against child abuse are those who actively
> campaign, so the rest of us must be pro-child
> abuse - when did you stop beating YOUR wife?
>
> In fact the only people pro-RD were the South
> Lakes community who stood to gain and the Herndon
> community who got religion when they realized they
> could get behind a plan which protected them but
> screwed their neighbors (and they were quite
> honest about it in break-outs)
>
> see what happens when the board goes for a county
> wide study - you'll see massive public opposition
> at a level which will tear the county apart
>
>
>
> quit redistricting - face the performance problem
>
> fix the failing schools, reward success
>
> shut down schools failing AYP, stop backfilling
> failure with warm bodies to fudge the figures


Sadly, your myopia leads you astray...into pillars and dark corridors where only the echoes of you and yours convince you of the virtues and merits of your "cause".

Did you happen to read the comments posted on the various papers when (a) the SB approved redistricting and (b) the lawsuit was reported?

Vast majority expressed incredulity about the wankerdom of the anti-RD crowd.

Echo, echo, echo, echo.

Oakton Grad future SL parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mr e Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Watch the school board
> > meetings there were many minorities who spoke
> out
> > against redistricting for the same reasons as
> the
> > whites who spoke out against it.
>
> NONE of them were hispanic or black. This IS
> about race and class. The antis don't want their
> kids at SL with low-income hispanics and blacks.
>
> One also has to
> > wonder why this area has had so much
> redistricting
> > Floris especially ( they were promised
> Westfeild
> > would be their home school).
>
> COULD it be the huge population growth in this
> part of the county over the last 10-15 years? Ya
> think?
>
> This law suit has NO merit. It will take money
> away from all of our kids. CAPS should be ashamed
> of themselves for wasting taxpayer money that
> could be better spent on our children in schools -
> not courtrooms.

Yawn...

ooookaaayyyy,,,,,object to your kids being taken out of schools that work and sent to a failing schools to hide the numbers - you must be a racist

fix the schools and stop calling people you don't know racists

stop ignoring the fact that FCPS is failing minorities, that minorities are failing themselves in education and do something about it

its not our kids job to be thrown into failing schools to make them look good

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not spending a dime of the taxpayer's money.
> That is ALL on the school board. If they were
> competent at their job to begin with, or even now
> admitted they royally screwed up with this
> ill-conceived redistricting, the lawsuit never
> would have not been necessary.

Yes, you are spending FCPS tax dollars because FCPS is now going to have to spend money on legal fees to get rid of this frivolous lawsuit from ten parents.

>The absence of a resident signature on a petition means that resident favors redistricting. That is laughable.

Perhaps a more concise statement is, "Less than 1 percent of county residents thought signing a petition against redistricting was important."

more drivel from the pro-rders Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Grad future SL parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > mr e Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Watch the school board
> > > meetings there were many minorities who spoke
> > out
> > > against redistricting for the same reasons as
> > the
> > > whites who spoke out against it.
> >
> > NONE of them were hispanic or black. This IS
> > about race and class. The antis don't want
> their
> > kids at SL with low-income hispanics and
> blacks.
> >
> > One also has to
> > > wonder why this area has had so much
> > redistricting
> > > Floris especially ( they were promised
> > Westfeild
> > > would be their home school).
> >
> > COULD it be the huge population growth in this
> > part of the county over the last 10-15 years?
> Ya
> > think?
> >
> > This law suit has NO merit. It will take money
> > away from all of our kids. CAPS should be
> ashamed
> > of themselves for wasting taxpayer money that
> > could be better spent on our children in schools
> -
> > not courtrooms.
>
> Yawn...
>
> ooookaaayyyy,,,,,object to your kids being taken
> out of schools that work and sent to a failing
> schools to hide the numbers - you must be a
> racist
>
> fix the schools and stop calling people you don't
> know racists
>
> stop ignoring the fact that FCPS is failing
> minorities, that minorities are failing themselves
> in education and do something about it
>
> its not our kids job to be thrown into failing
> schools to make them look good



You lost because you keep saying that SL is a failing school and that "our kids" are being thrown into a cauldron. People with any sense know otherwise.

Then they ponder why you might say that, and..speculate as to your open-mindedness regarding people of color, because the facts clearly undercut your rants.

You teed it up. They hit the ball. Deal with it.

Tjeff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Sadly, your myopia leads you astray...into pillars
> and dark corridors where only the echoes of you
> and yours convince you of the virtues and merits
> of your "cause".
>
> Did you happen to read the comments posted on the
> various papers when (a) the SB approved
> redistricting and (b) the lawsuit was reported?
>
> Vast majority expressed incredulity about the
> wankerdom of the anti-RD crowd.
>
> Echo, echo, echo, echo.

just because you abide stand communities who stand up for themselves and fight back against being bullied for someone else's political objectives

this is our kids futures that are being f*ked with

who should be listened to?

3000+ people who were likely to be affected and turned up at the meetings - the vast majority of who said 'no' or a random set of DC, alexandria, and PG residents posting on washpost riled up because some idiots trying to cause race war etc?

get a life and leave our kids alone

What the county spends on the lawsuit is entirely up to the school board. Anyway, do you really think the school board would take money from their legal fund and spend it on something else? I think not.

The lawsuit is from 10 (actually 11) parents in name only. Va. state law will not allow the FairfaxCAPS group to be the official plaintiff, so the parents are simply 11 of many who volunteered to have their names put on it.

By the way, why do you think the SB decided to make such a large increase in their legal fund this past year?

Tjeff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> more drivel from the pro-rders Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oakton Grad future SL parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > mr e Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Watch the school board
> > > > meetings there were many minorities who
> spoke
> > > out
> > > > against redistricting for the same reasons
> as
> > > the
> > > > whites who spoke out against it.
> > >
> > > NONE of them were hispanic or black. This IS
> > > about race and class. The antis don't want
> > their
> > > kids at SL with low-income hispanics and
> > blacks.
> > >
> > > One also has to
> > > > wonder why this area has had so much
> > > redistricting
> > > > Floris especially ( they were promised
> > > Westfeild
> > > > would be their home school).
> > >
> > > COULD it be the huge population growth in
> this
> > > part of the county over the last 10-15 years?
>
> > Ya
> > > think?
> > >
> > > This law suit has NO merit. It will take
> money
> > > away from all of our kids. CAPS should be
> > ashamed
> > > of themselves for wasting taxpayer money that
> > > could be better spent on our children in
> schools
> > -
> > > not courtrooms.
> >
> > Yawn...
> >
> > ooookaaayyyy,,,,,object to your kids being
> taken
> > out of schools that work and sent to a failing
> > schools to hide the numbers - you must be a
> > racist
> >
> > fix the schools and stop calling people you
> don't
> > know racists
> >
> > stop ignoring the fact that FCPS is failing
> > minorities, that minorities are failing
> themselves
> > in education and do something about it
> >
> > its not our kids job to be thrown into failing
> > schools to make them look good
>
>
>
> You lost because you keep saying that SL is a
> failing school and that "our kids" are being
> thrown into a cauldron. People with any sense know
> otherwise.
>
> Then they ponder why you might say that,
> and..speculate as to your open-mindedness
> regarding people of color, because the facts
> clearly undercut your rants.
>
> You teed it up. They hit the ball. Deal with it.



perhaps you could help us out

why do only 66% of students at SLHS take SAT? and why are the SAT and SOL scores so low?

why does hughes continue to fail AYP year after year?


This is not about race - its about failing schools

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the county spends on the lawsuit is entirely
> up to the school board. Anyway, do you really
> think the school board would take money from their
> legal fund and spend it on something else? I
> think not.
>
> The lawsuit is from 10 (actually 11) parents in
> name only. Va. state law will not allow the
> FairfaxCAPS group to be the official plaintiff, so
> the parents are simply 11 of many who volunteered
> to have their names put on it.
>
> By the way, why do you think the SB decided to
> make such a large increase in their legal fund
> this past year?


I don't support the School Board. It wastes too much money. But I researched the issue on increasing the legal fund and think it is not correct. It appears to represent a combination of separate accounts with the total budget amount going down a bit. I checked this after Gibson mentioned it once.

It's better to focus on SOCO, "need" for new Admin.building, or double-busing.

Oakton Grad future SL parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mr e Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Watch the school board
> > meetings there were many minorities who spoke
> out
> > against redistricting for the same reasons as
> the
> > whites who spoke out against it.
>
> NONE of them were hispanic or black. This IS
> about race and class. The antis don't want their
> kids at SL with low-income hispanics and blacks.
>
> One also has to
> > wonder why this area has had so much
> redistricting
> > Floris especially ( they were promised
> Westfeild
> > would be their home school).
>
> COULD it be the huge population growth in this
> part of the county over the last 10-15 years? Ya
> think?
>
> This law suit has NO merit. It will take money
> away from all of our kids. CAPS should be ashamed
> of themselves for wasting taxpayer money that
> could be better spent on our children in schools -
> not courtrooms.


You are an idiot. How dare you say this is about race? How could you possibly suggest this? Have you talked to anti-RD families? Has anyone even suggested this is about race. I am so tired of people who start screaming RACE, RACE, RACE when they don't like what the other side is saying or doing. It is morally disgusting to make those kinds of inflammatory comments about people you know NOTHING about. The laws suit has merit, and you must agree or you wouldn't have started down your ugly "It's about RACE" crap. The only people who should be ashamed are those who don't think that each of us deserves our day in court. The SB can make this cost-free to the taxpayers. It is up to them. (But, unfortunately, they have no problem spending OUR money.) Did you scream RACE when they approved $$ for the Langley addition? Did you scream RACE when the built the Westfields addition? And, I bet you won't scream RACE when they waste OUR money on the SCMS. You are pathetic.

Lopter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SBS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not spending a dime of the taxpayer's money.
>
> > That is ALL on the school board. If they were
> > competent at their job to begin with, or even
> now
> > admitted they royally screwed up with this
> > ill-conceived redistricting, the lawsuit never
> > would have not been necessary.
>
> Yes, you are spending FCPS tax dollars because
> FCPS is now going to have to spend money on legal
> fees to get rid of this frivolous lawsuit from ten
> parents.
>
> >The absence of a resident signature on a petition
> means that resident favors redistricting. That is
> laughable.
>
> Perhaps a more concise statement is, "Less than 1
> percent of county residents thought signing a
> petition against redistricting was important."


What weird logic. Your concise statement is anything but.

The race card/entitlement issue would not have merit if the first anti-redisctricting reactions had not included:

* How would you like to bust your ass all your life to afford a house in a good neighborhood, and then have these leftist losers bus your kid to the hood to attend school with the offspring of a bunch of welfare queens?

*The thought of my child being forced to attend South Lakes makes me physically ill!

*And yes, you did waste four years of your life at South Lakes. My children should have gone there, but unlike your parents, I was concerned about my children's education and sent them to private school. And no, you aren't pimps, you are the hos. Your parents are the pimps.

*The girls that my daughter plays with in Fox Mill play with Barbie dolls, and are not allowed to play with Bratz. In conversations had with the parents, they all agree that Bratz dolls do not convey a positive message, rather they promote slutty clothing, and skanky behavior -- you don't see "Bling Bling Barbie." In the lower class areas, you predominantly see Bratz. In fact, the girls seem to friggin' worship those ridiculous dolls. You see seven year olds in bootie shorts and midriff exposing shirts. You see little girls in high heels. This may seem laughable, and it MAY BE laughable, but it's a small example of the different mentalities of people in diffent classes (for the most part.) I prefer my child to associate with children whose parents have similar beliefs.

*There is a difference between affordable housing and government housing. Stonegate, West Glade, and Cedar something-or-other (next to Forest Edge) are not for "upwardly mobile immigrants." They are for lazy welfare recipients who enjoy sitting on their butt with their hands in our wallets while blaming you and I for their predicament.

*I have already talked to realtors. I am willing to sell in a soft market just to get the hell out of here. My kids are not going to a slum of a school. I could do private, but we just want out. ASAP

*Dont under estimate the affluent piece. Many of your posts discuss our property values, do you honestly feel that people living in multi million dollar homes will back down without a fight when they stand to lose 10 percent of their value. Let's say there are 30 of us, average home price $1m, average loss per home $100k,hmmmm? I wasnt part of your IB program but I would bet that a very expensive law suit maybe $250k would be less expensive for us than caving in without a fight. Not to mention the price of an education equivalent to say Oakton or Madison, lets see Flint Hill is running $25k a year. All of a sudden that law suit is sounding down right cheap.

*Well, I better sell my house before it drops another $50K with the plethora of homes that are about to go on the market in light of this ridiculous plan.

*"All walks of life" you say?!? I'll go scout out some homeless alcoholics and pimps if you take care of the child molesters and porn stars. Also, could someone scout out the recent Irish-American, British-American, and Holland-American immigrants?! We don't have anyone with accents! Ohhh the inhumanity of it all!


These were all non-troll quotes from this thread. The anti-redistricting arguments have EVOLVED into IB/AP. Not all of you are racist. Some of you are. Aknowledge that. Maybe if your community members had reacted in the beginning in an open fashion rather than slandering South Lakes and the Reston community, people would have more sympathy for your cause.

Oakton Grad future SL parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This law suit has NO merit. It will take money away from all of our kids. CAPS
> should be ashamed of themselves for wasting taxpayer money that could be better
> spent on our children in schools - not courtrooms.

While I agree that the lawsuit has no merit, don't think for a moment that the costs avoided (less than $2 per child in the FCPS) would find its way into the classrooms.

When a SB choses to increase class size before cutting central office staff, engaging in a morality study or building unnecessary new buildings to avoid a redistricting, it has clearly demonstrated that the classroom is its last priority.

get a life Wrote:

>
> who should be listened to?
>
> 3000+ people who were likely to be affected and
> turned up at the meetings - the vast majority of
> who said 'no' or a random set of DC, alexandria,
> and PG residents posting on washpost riled up
> because some idiots trying to cause race war etc?
>
>
> get a life and leave our kids alone


"who should be listened to?"

Voters and plaintiffs with lawsuits that actually state a claim for relief.

We should not listen to those who moan about how their kindergartner is "aggrieved" because she/he won't be able to go to Westfield, Oakton, or anywhere other than the CLOSEST F**&&&&ing high school to their HOUSE!!!!....in 2015.

So TJeff,
What you are saying then, is that the folks who live in North Reston that are closest to SL should go there, and the folks that live in "Sterling" should go to Herndon, rather than Langley. GREAT, I knew you'd see it our way.

Fox mill is closer to sl than aldrin is.

Tjeff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> get a life Wrote:
>
> >
> > who should be listened to?
> >
> > 3000+ people who were likely to be affected and
> > turned up at the meetings - the vast majority
> of
> > who said 'no' or a random set of DC,
> alexandria,
> > and PG residents posting on washpost riled up
> > because some idiots trying to cause race war
> etc?
> >
> >
> > get a life and leave our kids alone
>
>
> "who should be listened to?"
>
> Voters and plaintiffs with lawsuits that actually
> state a claim for relief.
>
> We should not listen to those who moan about how
> their kindergartner is "aggrieved" because she/he
> won't be able to go to Westfield, Oakton, or
> anywhere other than the CLOSEST F**&&&&ing high
> school to their HOUSE!!!!....in 2015.


I read the lawsuit and it basically indicated how the SB carried the process out, not where the 11 people were from. That is not what the lawsuit was about. You should all know that the process was PREDETERMINED and that the SB knew which communities would be going to all along despite putting the public through 4 fake options and town meetings that turned out to be a circus. Merit or no merit, the people who filed the lawsuit had that right to do so.

sdhsdjkg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fox mill is closer to sl than aldrin is.


Sorry, but I must disagree with you. Aldrin is just AS close to SL as Fox Mill is and Aldrin should have gone to SL FIRST.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, why do you think the SB decided to make such a large increase in their > legal fund this past year?

They didn't. They simply took two different legal services funds and consolidated them into one budget line item.

well i disagree.

and fox mill should go to a school that is 2389479328 miles away. it is only logical.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sdhsdjkg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fox mill is closer to sl than aldrin is.
>
>
> Sorry, but I must disagree with you. Aldrin is
> just AS close to SL as Fox Mill is and Aldrin
> should have gone to SL FIRST.



Why? FMES is 1 mile closer to SL than Aldrin.

sdhsdjkg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fox mill is closer to sl than aldrin is.

Federal Law looks at residence location not elementary school location. Some Fox mill homes are closer to Chantilly than SL's. Some Chantilly is closer to Westfield. Expalin that poplar Tree boundary plus the Greenbrier island? Odd.

If they did a county wide change most would remain where they are and it's not hard to figure out general areas of movement. i suspect that's why some on the board are against such a study.

well none of the fox mill homes are closer to oakton than sl. while some of the aldrin homes are closer to herndon than sl. get OVER it.

There's .5 mile difference between Aldrin to SL and FM to SL, based on the location of the elementary schools. However, the location of those schools within their boundaries (FM is at the northern edge) is not representative of the boundary perimeter.

You can't argue that to make the most sense, Aldrin/Armstrong should have gone to SL, the "Sterling" folks backfill to Herndon, and leave ther rest out of this shuffle. Now you are taking kids that live 2 miles from Chantilly and sending them 8 miles to Oakton.

But thats ok, no one wants to go to SL - not even your neighbors in Reston.

taxpayer Wrote:
> Federal Law looks at residence location not
> elementary school location. Some Fox mill homes
> are closer to Chantilly than SL's. Some Chantilly
> is closer to Westfield. ...
>
> If they did a county wide change most would remain
> where they are and it's not hard to figure out
> general areas of movement. i suspect that's why
> some on the board are against such a study.

taxpayer,
I agree that the important distance should be home-to-school, not elementary-to-high school. There are also harder-to-quantify issues of time, safety, and congestion,

But can you clarify what you mean by "It's not hard to figure out general areas of movement. i suspect that's why some on the board are against such a study"?

Someone referenced the SAT participation rate at South Lakes. Where did you get that data?

I asked accountability office for per school data and they claimed they didn't keep it.

I would be curious to see the per school data broken down by race. This school system is desperate to keep the SAT averages up so they hardly have an incentive to encourage more kids to take the test. I guess it is one of the dirty little secrets.

What good are high SAT scores if 1 out of 3 students doesn't even bother to take the test?

sdfahd;sfjk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well none of the fox mill homes are closer to
> oakton than sl. while some of the aldrin homes are
> closer to herndon than sl. get OVER it.


And all of the Madison Island homes are closer to (1)SLHS, (2) Hughes MS,and (3) Sunrise Valley, than they are to (a) Madison, (b) the southern VA middle school they now attend, and (c) Wolftrap ES.

Madison Island will be going to SL, as should Aldrin/Armstrong.

and fox mill and probably more of crossfield too. floris can go wherever.

skdahfa;skd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and fox mill and probably more of crossfield too.
> floris can go wherever.


Floris can go wherever? How about a new Oak Hill or Sully High in the Floris area as stated in the out years of the CIP but never funded to be built?

skdahfa;skd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and fox mill and probably more of crossfield too.
> floris can go wherever.

Wow, you sound like a SB member. "Floris can go wherever?" We don't really care about them.

nope not really.

sdafahsdklf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nope not really.


Nice.

comeonecomeall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The race card/entitlement issue would not have
> merit if the first anti-redisctricting reactions
> had not included:
>
> * How would you like to bust your ass all your
> life to afford a house in a good neighborhood, and
> then have these leftist losers bus your kid to the
> hood to attend school with the offspring of a
> bunch of welfare queens?
>
> *The thought of my child being forced to attend
> South Lakes makes me physically ill!
>
> *And yes, you did waste four years of your life at
> South Lakes. My children should have gone there,
> but unlike your parents, I was concerned about my
> children's education and sent them to private
> school. And no, you aren't pimps, you are the hos.
> Your parents are the pimps.
>
> *The girls that my daughter plays with in Fox Mill
> play with Barbie dolls, and are not allowed to
> play with Bratz. In conversations had with the
> parents, they all agree that Bratz dolls do not
> convey a positive message, rather they promote
> slutty clothing, and skanky behavior -- you don't
> see "Bling Bling Barbie." In the lower class
> areas, you predominantly see Bratz. In fact, the
> girls seem to friggin' worship those ridiculous
> dolls. You see seven year olds in bootie shorts
> and midriff exposing shirts. You see little girls
> in high heels. This may seem laughable, and it MAY
> BE laughable, but it's a small example of the
> different mentalities of people in diffent classes
> (for the most part.) I prefer my child to
> associate with children whose parents have similar
> beliefs.
>
> *There is a difference between affordable housing
> and government housing. Stonegate, West Glade, and
> Cedar something-or-other (next to Forest Edge) are
> not for "upwardly mobile immigrants." They are for
> lazy welfare recipients who enjoy sitting on their
> butt with their hands in our wallets while blaming
> you and I for their predicament.
>
> *I have already talked to realtors. I am willing
> to sell in a soft market just to get the hell out
> of here. My kids are not going to a slum of a
> school. I could do private, but we just want out.
> ASAP
>
> *Dont under estimate the affluent piece. Many of
> your posts discuss our property values, do you
> honestly feel that people living in multi million
> dollar homes will back down without a fight when
> they stand to lose 10 percent of their value.
> Let's say there are 30 of us, average home price
> $1m, average loss per home $100k,hmmmm? I wasnt
> part of your IB program but I would bet that a
> very expensive law suit maybe $250k would be less
> expensive for us than caving in without a fight.
> Not to mention the price of an education
> equivalent to say Oakton or Madison, lets see
> Flint Hill is running $25k a year. All of a sudden
> that law suit is sounding down right cheap.
>
> *Well, I better sell my house before it drops
> another $50K with the plethora of homes that are
> about to go on the market in light of this
> ridiculous plan.
>
> *"All walks of life" you say?!? I'll go scout out
> some homeless alcoholics and pimps if you take
> care of the child molesters and porn stars. Also,
> could someone scout out the recent Irish-American,
> British-American, and Holland-American
> immigrants?! We don't have anyone with accents!
> Ohhh the inhumanity of it all!
>
>
> These were all non-troll quotes from this thread.
> The anti-redistricting arguments have EVOLVED into
> IB/AP. Not all of you are racist. Some of you are.
> Aknowledge that. Maybe if your community members
> had reacted in the beginning in an open fashion
> rather than slandering South Lakes and the Reston
> community, people would have more sympathy for
> your cause.


you are right on, I went to the first meeting and AP /IB never came up , it was all about "gangs"

sdfahd;sfjk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well none of the fox mill homes are closer to
> oakton than sl. while some of the aldrin homes are
> closer to herndon than sl. get OVER it.


But,none of the Reston homes are closer to Langley than South Lakes.

Those homes should go to South Lakes too. But so should you.

Not to worry. We'll all be there soon - to fix YOUR school.. I suggest gettin outta the way now, since you have failed your children. You won't fail mine.

If the goal is to eliminate islands-take a look at the Woodson Island smack in the middle of the Robinson District.

The argument of arbitrary and capricious does have some weight.

It was a Western County boundary study. Woodson and Ronbinson are not in the Western part of the County. The school board can rebuttle that when the time comes to redistrict the Woodson/Robinson area, they will remove that island as well.

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the goal is to eliminate islands-take a look at
> the Woodson Island smack in the middle of the
> Robinson District.
>
> The argument of arbitrary and capricious does have
> some weight.

---------
Woodson/Frost are both overcrowded and Robinson MS & HS are both under-enrolled.

The students in that island attend Oak View, directly across the street from Robinson.

Why did the school board redistrict MORE Oak View students into Woodson just before its renovation?

They have to drive past Robinson to get to Woodson.

[Woodson is AP and Robinson is IB - but that does not seem to bother this school board.]

so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to worry. We'll all be there soon - to fix
> YOUR school.. I suggest gettin outta the way now,
> since you have failed your children. You won't
> fail mine.


We'll know you the minute you walk in the door. Have all the answers, but lost your keys and forget where you parked.

Oh. And wants to make sure your kids get a special session with the coaches and teachers, so you can tell them how special they are.

Tjeff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not to worry. We'll all be there soon - to fix
> > YOUR school.. I suggest gettin outta the way
> now,
> > since you have failed your children. You won't
> > fail mine.
>
>
> We'll know you the minute you walk in the door.
> Have all the answers, but lost your keys and
> forget where you parked.
>
> Oh. And wants to make sure your kids get a
> special session with the coaches and teachers, so
> you can tell them how special they are.

Ouch! That doesn't sound very welcoming. What happened to to big love fest that was supposed to great the rising 9th graders from Floris and Fox Mill? If I had more time I'd go back through 200+ pages and pull out some quotes about how happy SL will be to greet them.

To FM MOm

Your kids should fit in really well ,at south lakes ( with your perception of it) I heard Fox Mill has a real bullying problem going on. Could it be ? Smart White kids being mean to each other .?

glad we're out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tjeff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > so Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Not to worry. We'll all be there soon - to
> fix
> > > YOUR school.. I suggest gettin outta the way
> > now,
> > > since you have failed your children. You
> won't
> > > fail mine.
> >
> >
> > We'll know you the minute you walk in the door.
>
> > Have all the answers, but lost your keys and
> > forget where you parked.
> >
> > Oh. And wants to make sure your kids get a
> > special session with the coaches and teachers,
> so
> > you can tell them how special they are.
>
> Ouch! That doesn't sound very welcoming. What
> happened to to big love fest that was supposed to
> great the rising 9th graders from Floris and Fox
> Mill? If I had more time I'd go back through 200+
> pages and pull out some quotes about how happy SL
> will be to greet them.


And when you find the time, include all the quotes about the great saviours coming to convert the heathens.

Lravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i hope all your children go to South Lakes




>>>>>>> I AGREE TO THAT TO THE FULLEST<<<<<<<

Tjeff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> glad we're out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tjeff Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > so Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Not to worry. We'll all be there soon - to
> > fix
> > > > YOUR school.. I suggest gettin outta the
> way
> > > now,
> > > > since you have failed your children. You
> > won't
> > > > fail mine.
> > >
> > >
> > > We'll know you the minute you walk in the
> door.
> >
> > > Have all the answers, but lost your keys and
> > > forget where you parked.
> > >
> > > Oh. And wants to make sure your kids get a
> > > special session with the coaches and
> teachers,
> > so
> > > you can tell them how special they are.
> >
> > Ouch! That doesn't sound very welcoming. What
> > happened to to big love fest that was supposed
> to
> > great the rising 9th graders from Floris and
> Fox
> > Mill? If I had more time I'd go back through
> 200+
> > pages and pull out some quotes about how happy
> SL
> > will be to greet them.
>
>
> And when you find the time, include all the quotes
> about the great saviours coming to convert the
> heathens.


Hey, it wasn't our idea to save anyone. We were just minding our own business.

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This study on racial morality is positively
> disturbing.
>
> Every other school district in this country is
> scrambling to figure out where the failures are
> and how to fix them. I have read dozens of studys
> and books on minority underachievement and am yet
> to stumble on one that talks about morality.
> Behavior measurements are so subjective and
> biased, to place some sort of scientific
> conclusion on them is laughable.
>
> Jack Dale and all of these morons running the
> student achievement office need to go.
>
> Where the hell is Ralph Cooper and the other
> members of the MSAOC? Where the hell is the NAACP?
> These kids desperately need advocacy and they are
> not getting it. Hone cannot fight this fight
> alone.


THE BELOW STORY PROVES THAT FCPS DISCRIMINATE AGAINST BLACKS AND HISPANICS.

FCPS BY THIS REPORT HAVE PITTED WHITES AND ASIAN AGAINST BLACKS AND HISPANICS.

WE HAVE ASS HOLES FOR LEADERS FOR DOING THIS REPORT.



FCPS Cite ‘Morality Gap’
School Board questions accuracy of data showing gap between ethnicities.
Julia O'Donoghue
April 2, 2008


At-large School Board member Tina Hone questioned the validity of data that shows a "morality gap" between white students and some minority groups in Fairfax County Public Schools.


At-large school board member Tina Hone walked off the dais during Fairfax County Public Schools’ presentation on student "essential life skills" March 27.

For the first time, the school system provided student achievement data in areas related to character and morality development. Officials used information from elementary school report cards, student surveys and school discipline rates to determine student performance in these areas.

Data showed a significant gap between elementary and middle school students who are white or Asian and those who are black or Hispanic in areas like "demonstrates sound moral character and ethical judgment," "contributes effectively within a group dynamic," has "skills to manage and resolved conflicts" and "develop practical life skills."

White and Asian students performed better in these areas than other minority groups as well as students with limited English, students who are poor, and students receiving special education services.

For example, among third graders, school system graphs show that 95 percent of white and Asian students "demonstrate sound moral character and ethical judgment." They show only 82 percent of black students, 86 percent of Hispanic students, 84 percent of students who qualify for free and reduced lunch, 88 percent of students who are limited English proficient and 83 percent of students who qualify for special education services achieve in the same area.

Hone, one of only two non-white members of the school board, said she was "troubled" by the report, particularly the gap between black and Hispanic students and their peers.

"How are we sure this gap is not an assessment failure? … that some of this is not about fixing our staff?" said Hone during last week’s school board meeting.

Several other school board members had similar questions. At-large school board member Ilryong Moon said it was perplexing that the "essential life skills" achievement gap mirrored the academic achievement gap.

"In my mind, there shouldn’t be such a correlation," he said.

School board member Kathy Smith (Sully) said the data could reflect a need for more teacher training on issues like cultural sensitivity.

Others members added that self-reported information from students can be unreliable. Based on a survey of high school seniors and discipline rates, the school system had reported during the presentation that 97 percent of high school seniors have good judgment even though a larger percentage of students admitted to "binge drinking" or drinking and driving in a separate survey.

School system officials told the school board that they had raised several of the questions about the data during a staff meeting earlier that day. They emphasize that no conclusions had been drawn yet.

"We had lots of ‘aha’ moments. … The conclusions one could come to could be many," said Alice Farling, assistant superintendent for Fairfax County Public Schools Department of Special Services.

Farling added that officials are developing several additional ways to measure good judgment among students. Much of the current data is "soft" or subjective and finding objective standards in areas of behavior can be difficult, she said.


ONCE AGAIN YOU HAVE FAILED MINORITY GROUPS AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA ON HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoapOperaFan said:
>
> >>>What's in it for you? You don't even have a kid
> in an IB school or going to one.<<<
>
> We shouldn't care about the kids in the county,
> and the education that they are receiving unless
> it personally effects us? Wow. That sounds
> rather selfish and self centered.
>
> There are many people who deeply care about
> children and their education, even if never
> effects them personally. Teachers come to mind,
> many of them care about the education of children
> other than their own. Many other people just care
> deeply about children and want them to have what
> they deserve from the government educational
> programs. Many children can't afford any other
> education, and they don't have anyone to speak for
> them when they are stuck with poor programs that
> don't educate them.
>
> Some people care. I am sorry that you are not
> among them.

___________________________________________________


a)I agree with the first post you and your kids arn't affected so why are you in this ?

b) People do care about kids and with IB the are geting some form of an education just one you don,t argee with.

c) You aren't affected by this and you shouldn't make your negatative comments toward SL if your not being redistricted their.


YOU SHOULDN'T BE ANGRY ABOUT THE REDISTRCTING IF IT DOESNT AFFECT YOU
in other words mind your own business

Only solution is to move out of Fox Mill, MI and Floris areas. There are plenty of buyers with no high school age kids that can move in those areas. The market will eventually balance that once people with kids move out and ones with no kids move in. At that time these SBM will do another study to show that Fox Mill, MI and Floris have aged and will rope in rest of Floris, Crossfield etc,

Dont panic. The lawsuit may still save us.

only solution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only solution is to move out of Fox Mill, MI and
> Floris areas. There are plenty of buyers with no
> high school age kids that can move in those areas.
> The market will eventually balance that once
> people with kids move out and ones with no kids
> move in. At that time these SBM will do another
> study to show that Fox Mill, MI and Floris have
> aged and will rope in rest of Floris, Crossfield
> etc,

ME AGAIN Wrote:
>
> YOU SHOULDN'T BE ANGRY ABOUT THE REDISTRCTING IF
> IT DOESNT AFFECT YOU
> in other words mind your own business

That is the exact thing the SBM wants. Divide the community. If the folks who are not affected now just keep quiet, then they will become the targets in the next round.
Are you saying that it is ok to watch while someone comes and beats the hell out of your neighbour?

Ironically, the week the lawsuit was filed on the boundary process vote where a big part wass the approximate 2000 high school enrollment target, this school division's board has an action item to add capacity to South County. At a later date the middle school will be built leaving a 3000 student high school. 3000-2000=1000

Think the Circuit Court can do the math? And the budget problems? What grounds are there for suits against the County and FCPS for this new unnecessary expenditure?

notyet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont panic. The lawsuit may still save us.

From what accumulating wealth? It ain't going to save you from the RD.