You don't make AP/IB, you take AP/IB. Work like hell to stay there.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't make AP/IB, you take AP/IB. Work like
> hell to stay there.

Well, back in my day you had to test into AP classes. Guess that has changed....

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot said
> >>>So really, 1 out of 6 Reston Elementary Schools
> did make AYP for the 2006-2007 School year. Four
> out of 6 did not fail, as you said.<<<
>
> Oops, you only looked at only Title one schools.
> Not ALL the Reston schools.
>
> If you go here,
> http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/ayp.shtml, you
> can find all the schools that failed to make AYP.
> You only need to download the 2007/2008 page to
> get the last three years.
>
> Hughes middle school failed to make AYP in 2005,
> 2006, and 2007
>
> Dogwood passed in 2005, failed in 2006, failed in
> 2007
>
> Hunters Woods passed in 2005, failed in 2006,
> failed in 2007
>
> Lake Anne failed in 2005, failed in 2006, failed
> in 2007
>
> McNair failed in 2005, failed in 2006, failed in
> 2007
>
> Terraset passed in 2005, failed in 2006, passed in
> 2007
>
> Sunrise Valley passed 2005, 2006, and 2007.
>
> In the last year, four out of six elementary
> schools in Reston failed AYP. No other high
> school had that many failing elementary schools.
>
>
> Please, check it for yourself. You need only
> download the 2007/2008 page for all the
> information for the last three years, for ALL the
> schools in the county:
>
> http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/ayp.shtml
>
> It's really very interesting.

McNair is NOT in Reston and it does not feed into South Lakes. Do your math. Its 3 not 4.

We've been over this. McNair is in Hunter Mill, under Stu Gibson. The point is schools under Stu don't do as well as other schools in the county, schools with lower demographics than those in Hunter Mill/Reston.

Why do you always come here between 12:00 and 1:00 and always use different screen names?

Just wondering. Your disguises aren't very good.

McNair does not feed into South Lakes YET. It will soon. Sorry. :(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 12:49AM by Neen.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot said
> >>>So really, 1 out of 6 Reston Elementary Schools
> did make AYP for the 2006-2007 School year. Four
> out of 6 did not fail, as you said.<<<
>
> Oops, you only looked at only Title one schools.
> Not ALL the Reston schools.
>
> If you go here,
> http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/ayp.shtml, you
> can find all the schools that failed to make AYP.
> You only need to download the 2007/2008 page to
> get the last three years.
>
> Hughes middle school failed to make AYP in 2005,
> 2006, and 2007
>
> Dogwood passed in 2005, failed in 2006, failed in
> 2007
>
> Hunters Woods passed in 2005, failed in 2006,
> failed in 2007
>
> Lake Anne failed in 2005, failed in 2006, failed
> in 2007
>
> McNair failed in 2005, failed in 2006, failed in
> 2007
>
> Terraset passed in 2005, failed in 2006, passed in
> 2007
>
> Sunrise Valley passed 2005, 2006, and 2007.
>
> In the last year, four out of six elementary
> schools in Reston failed AYP. No other high
> school had that many failing elementary schools.
>
>
> Please, check it for yourself. You need only
> download the 2007/2008 page for all the
> information for the last three years, for ALL the
> schools in the county:
>
> http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/src/ayp.shtml
>
> It's really very interesting.


Neen,

Sorry, again your data is incorrect. McNair is in Westfield and Herndon pyramid NOT in South Lakes. Why would you think it is acceptable to burden an already burdened school with additional title 1 students such as McNair?

And fyi - here are stats on Herndon:

Herndon has 6 elementary schools - Aldrin, Armstrong, Clearview, Dranesville, Herndon, and Hutchinson. Only two made AYP, Aldrin and Armstrong - the two with kids who are part of Reston. Herndon Middle didn't make AYP.

South Lakes high School did make AYP even with its large population of lunch subsidized students and ESOL students. Please don't tell me that you now believe AYP is the gold standard by which to judge schools. Sorry, you'll get a larger discussion about the many problems associated with NCLB than you will with redistricting.

Now you believe we should punish South Lakes because there are poor people in Reston or those for whom english is a second language? Some Reston elementary schools didn't make AYP so that is somehow South Lakes fault?


I'm curious as to your circular logic. Earlier you claimed that the school board didn't do the right thing by Hayfield in South County. The moved out all the more economically advantaged students and left a smaller more disadvantage population.

Now you advocate that the school board should do the same WRONG thing to South Lakes that they did to Hayfield. There seems to be some animosity against South Lakes and Reston in particular. What's your big beef against Reston? What did I, my neighbors, and our children ever do to deserve this feeling that we are somehow second class citizens and don't deserve the same advantages as the rest of the taxpayers in the county?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Oops, you only looked at only Title one schools.
> Not ALL the Reston schools.
>

JM, thanks for the link. I still don't understand why you want to punish the middle class kids at South Lakes by fighting against redistricting more middle class peers into the underutilized spaces in the school. It is even more unfair because South Lakes has made AYP for the last 3 years. Are you saying that South Lakes should be punished because you think the all-powerful Stu hasn't done his part in the elementary schools?

It is not the students' fault that the County's housing policies have clustered so many low income housing units in one place. And please don't tell me that Reston is responsible. Herndon has just as many low income housing units, but HHS benefits by having a significant portion of Reston's middle class students in their school (Aldrin & Armstrong). If South Lakes had had those students all along, it would not be in the position it is in today.

McNair is in the Westfield Pyramid, but I don't see you seeking to punish the students of Westfield because McNair is a Title I school. But that is exactly what you want to do to South Lakes, because of some kind of personal vendetta against Stuart Gibson.

BTW, you say Vienna will never allow Madison to lose Vienna town kids, but a significant number of Madison's students don't live in the town limits of Vienna and are not under the protection of the town. Madison is not the Town school of Vienna. It is part of FCPS. Tell me if I am wrong, but I was not aware that Vienna residents paid any additional premium for the school and the school one of many in a larger school system.

Neen Wrote:

>
> Why do you always come here between 12:00 and 1:00
> and always use different screen names?
>
> Just wondering. Your disguises aren't very good.

JM, who are you talking about?

Hey Old Timer, I forgot to say congrats!

Hi Wii,
I have never advocated sending McNair to South Lakes. I predicted it, but never said that I supported it. I simply knew it was inevitable, and you did too. McNair is too close to SL and Floris can't jump over McNair to get to SL. McNair had to go into SL.

South Lakes is getting screwed, just like Hayfield did. It was so inevitable. Wasn't it?

I've got nothing against Reston. Some of my best friends live there. I just wish the elementary kids got a better education. If it's possible at other low income schools, across the county, and across the state, why not Reston? When Reston people demand it, it will happen. That's up to you all.

>>>JM, who are you talking about<<<

Nope, the initials of our little midnight poster are not JM.

But thanks for playing! (BTW, like midnight, you're pretty obvious too. But I still like you anyway. But do stop putting words in my mouth, er, keyboard.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 03:17AM by Neen.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Oops, you only looked at only Title one schools.
>
> > Not ALL the Reston schools.
> >
>
> JM, thanks for the link. I still don't understand
> why you want to punish the middle class kids at
> South Lakes by fighting against redistricting more
> middle class peers into the underutilized spaces
> in the school. It is even more unfair because
> South Lakes has made AYP for the last 3 years.
> Are you saying that South Lakes should be punished
> because you think the all-powerful Stu hasn't done
> his part in the elementary schools?
>
> It is not the students' fault that the County's
> housing policies have clustered so many low income
> housing units in one place. And please don't tell
> me that Reston is responsible. Herndon has just
> as many low income housing units, but HHS benefits
> by having a significant portion of Reston's middle
> class students in their school (Aldrin &
> Armstrong). If South Lakes had had those students
> all along, it would not be in the position it is
> in today.
>
> McNair is in the Westfield Pyramid, but I don't
> see you seeking to punish the students of
> Westfield because McNair is a Title I school. But
> that is exactly what you want to do to South
> Lakes, because of some kind of personal vendetta
> against Stuart Gibson.



As a student as Westfield, having gone to Floris and getting split up from my friends who were redistricted to McNair when it opened, I don't see your logic. Just because the elementary schools are doing poorly does not mean it will directly affect the high schools. McNair feeds into Carson middle school, which happens to be one of the schools that was a "School To Watch" or something like that a few years ago, and it has one of the highest overall GPAs in middleschool in all of FCPS. If the redistricting moves McNair kids to South Lakes, and they still attend Carson for 2 years, the test scores will not be brought down. Oakton and Westfield, the two main feeder schools from Carson MS (it also feeds into Chantilly and TJ - for the students who are accepted), still have high test scores from the kids who went to McNair and then Carson. If the county redistricts McNair students to a different middleschool, such as Hughes, and then to South Lakes, you'd see problems with the test scores.

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a student as Westfield, having gone to Floris
> and getting split up from my friends who were
> redistricted to McNair when it opened, I don't see
> your logic. Just because the elementary schools
> are doing poorly does not mean it will directly
> affect the high schools. McNair feeds into Carson
> middle school, which happens to be one of the
> schools that was a "School To Watch" or something
> like that a few years ago, and it has one of the
> highest overall GPAs in middleschool in all of
> FCPS. If the redistricting moves McNair kids to
> South Lakes, and they still attend Carson for 2
> years, the test scores will not be brought down.
> Oakton and Westfield, the two main feeder schools
> from Carson MS (it also feeds into Chantilly and
> TJ - for the students who are accepted), still
> have high test scores from the kids who went to
> McNair and then Carson. If the county redistricts
> McNair students to a different middleschool, such
> as Hughes, and then to South Lakes, you'd see
> problems with the test scores.


That's exactly my point. Westfield and Carson only have to deal with one low-performing school. Countless studies have shown that disadvantaged kids do much better when they comprise a smaller percentage of an overall population. Disadvantaged McNair kids are much better off staying at Carson/Westfield.

Of course, if South Lakes and Hughes had only one disadvantaged school in their pyramid, their test scores would be exactly like Carson and Westfield, and the disadvanataged kids would do better as well.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
>
>
> That's exactly my point. Westfield and Carson
> only have to deal with one low-performing school.
> Countless studies have shown that disadvantaged
> kids do much better when they comprise a smaller
> percentage of an overall population.
> Disadvantaged McNair kids are much better off
> staying at Carson/Westfield.
>
> Of course, if South Lakes and Hughes had only one
> disadvantaged school in their pyramid, their test
> scores would be exactly like Carson and Westfield,
> and the disadvanataged kids would do better as
> well.


No, I'm saying that because of Carson, it led the McNair kids to improve. So if Hughes was like Carson, the McNair kids who would be redistricted into South Lakes would not bring down the test scores. Clearly, something is messed up in the county if only a few middleschools are performing as academically well as Carson. There needs to be a better placement of academics into Hughes and other middleschools feeding into South Lakes so that not a major group of students wouldn't be projected to fail.

I appreciate your perspective and comments. I would bet that Carson has a very low percentage of kids on free and reduced lunch, and that helps the disadvantaged McNair kids. They are probably the only disadvantaged kids in the school.

Hughes does really well with the students that are just like you. It's the poorer students, many of whom don't speak English, that don't do as well on the tests. But South Lakes is doing a pretty good job with them.

The school board is not talking about redistricting middle schools, so the McNair kids would still come from Carson.

Carson has a decent amount of kids on free and reduced lunch, bu it does not compare to that of South Lakes. And, actually, there are kids in Carson other than the ones who come from McNair that are disadvantaged. Obviously, with high performing students, a middleschool, whether it be Carson or Hughes, will do well. There is a good amount of kids that are at Westfield that don't speak English as well as they should, either, but there are special requirements put into place for them in preparation of the tests. Such as after school help, extra help, things similar to those. I don't doubt South Lakes is doing a good job with them, so is Westfield.

And since the school board isn't talking about redistricting middleschools, despite that fact that the McNair kids would still come from Carson, it goes back into the issue of feeder schools. If they don't redistrict middleschools, Carson would then get split more so than it is right now, making its feeder worse.

That's true. Maybe you should study public policy at college. We could use thinkers like you making the plans.

Haha, thank you. I'm just very interested in this whole redistricting study. I don't think I necessarily would want to go into this field, though. I really don't like the FCPS system at all. Like, yes, I won't deny that the classes are good and that I'm receiving one of the best educations possible, but some of their policies and regulations are ridiculous. Obviously, they're not too good at planning for the future, either. Never mind that, though. I'm eagerly awaiting the meeting tomorrow... did any of you all notice how they're not having us meet in the gym this time, but go straight to small groups in individual classrooms? At least, that's what it said when I last checked the agenda for tomorrow.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Old Timer, I forgot to say congrats!


Thanks - Go Hokies!

Too bad for WVU though :(

I am lost at Westfield like the other 3,000 people, all I can find is the gym. lets just meet there and Stu and kathy and Denise can walk us to our classes after we meet in the gym and vote for a moratorium. We must stick together and if youe 'hood is safe from the Rd. All for one will win this against teh school board. I also hear Stu has some other issues to worry about now with the DOE in Va.

Hey WHS congrats on the win yesterday, good luck in the finals

Westfield basically goes in a big circle. It's okay if you can only find the gym, and they're probably going to hand out papers and maps in front of it, anyway. The classrooms are somewhat bigger than those at Chantilly, so more people can fit into a room. If you come in a group, I suggest going into various rooms so that your overall opinion can be spread out more. That's what I am, and some of my friends that are students are, going to do.

Also, there is a lot more parking. If you arrive at Westfield past 7PM, and the meeting has the most or more of an outcome than the one at Chantilly, I'd suggest parking in Cub Run and walking the distance. It's not that far, but it'll save you the trouble in trying to negotiate with other people when leaving the meeting.

Westfield....Great win yesterday! Must be wonderful to have such a winning football team!! Great for school spirit!

Lets keep the unity theme going!!

I've heard the Gym is where we need to go. See you all there!!!

I agree that Mcnair east is a hard pill to swallow if it goes to SLHS but the location is difficult to deal with. The Herndon PTSA web site indicates a ton of future/proposed building in the Reston area. Does anyone have any idea what student contributions will come of this? Also will the majority be middle class or lower income? If lower income then this whole thing is a lost cause, right?

Does everyone agree that all the pieces of the puzzle are on the table with the 4 scenarios? How receptive would they be with minor adjustments to the current scenarios ie scenario 4 but exchange Floris to SLHS instead of Aldrin...I think this puts the best mix of kids into SLHS.

Does anybdy else agree that Neen looks pretty hot?

OK, so the plan is to meet in the

--. -.-- -- -. .- ... .. ..- --


And, if the bad guys lock us out, we meet in the

.- ..- -.. .. - --- .-. .. ..- --


OR, the

-.-. .- ..-. . - . .-. .. .-


The important thing is that we stick together and make our voices heard, loud and clear.

PAL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that Mcnair east is a hard pill to swallow
> if it goes to SLHS but the location is difficult
> to deal with. The Herndon PTSA web site indicates
> a ton of future/proposed building in the Reston
> area. Does anyone have any idea what student
> contributions will come of this? Also will the
> majority be middle class or lower income? If lower
> income then this whole thing is a lost cause,
> right?
>
> Does everyone agree that all the pieces of the
> puzzle are on the table with the 4 scenarios? How
> receptive would they be with minor adjustments to
> the current scenarios ie scenario 4 but exchange
> Floris to SLHS instead of Aldrin...I think this
> puts the best mix of kids into SLHS.
>
> Does anybdy else agree that Neen looks pretty hot?


I disagree that all of the scenarios represent all the pieces of the puzzle. There was no scenario presented in which no one gets moved, and some of them are ridiculous in the matter of sending students through other districts to get to South Lakes. In Option 1, Madison Island isn't moved, which is stupid since they're closer to Herndon and South Lakes than Madison. As for Floris, sending kids through the Fox Mill area (that wouldn't be redistricted) to get to South Lakes does not make sense, because they would be passing through an area that is closer to South Lakes and isn't redistricted. South Lakes shouldn't get to hand pick the "best mix" of kids. They're underenrollment, and should take whatever students get redistricted to them. Since what the county is presenting pertains to classes and extracurricular activities at South Lakes lacking due to not enough students, the "best mix" of kids is not needed, South Lakes just needs kids.

I'm just guessing here, but I think that the Floris/McNair splits shown in options 1 and 4 are what might end up being the boundaries of the new elementary school being built in that area. To quote the fcps office of facilities planning "A new elementary school, 'Coppermine', is scheduled to open in the 2009-2010 school year and will provide relief to overcrowding at McNair and other nearby elementary schools."

Bulldog,

We agree on the no change scenario, but I'm not holding my breath. I also agree going through another district in the one scenario can questioned..I do. But, if I am on the chopping block, I want to pull the "well" preforming schools in the scenario to go with me.

Yes, a new elementary school is supposed to open, hence the splitting of Floris and McNair. Except, they just did a renovation on Floris a few years back, making it suited for more students, so I don't know if they're just going to split the Floris students to different high schools or send half of them to the new elementary school. Same thing with McNair, minus it getting renovated... though it is still decently new.

PAL,
I don't think anyone needs to move. However, if (and probably when) redistricting does occur, the option should be geographically based on which kids should be moved, not academically based.

Just guessing,

You are correct, technically the only school that might get split is Floris. The Coppermine site has a sign on it already.

if you have doubts about South Lakes, then why don't you come and visit the school? We have nothing to hide, and we're all very nice people. I feel that it's important to understand the environment of the school personally before making judgments. Call Bruce Butler himself, and set up a date to come and see our school. Then judge.

Awesome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you have doubts about South Lakes, then why
> don't you come and visit the school? We have
> nothing to hide, and we're all very nice people. I
> feel that it's important to understand the
> environment of the school personally before making
> judgments. Call Bruce Butler himself, and set up a
> date to come and see our school. Then judge.

I don't doubt South Lakes is a good school - I never said it wasn't. No one should be judging anyone at any school, unfortunately, that has happened. South Lakes isn't the only school in FCPS with bad rumors - every school has them. It's just, no one really deserves to be forced from where they want to go. If people want to go to South Lakes, that's fine. Although, forcing students to move, doesn't seem necessarily fair, does it? Especially since the way the county wants to redraw the lines isn't entirely logical.

The fact is that other criteria do exist...and it's not "only" geographic. Also, people need to realize the scenarios "are geagraphically based". The schools that were eliminated from consideration would have created a huge mess with "backfill" considerations and everybody would have ended up in a different school.

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Haha, thank you. I'm just very interested in this
> whole redistricting study. I don't think I
> necessarily would want to go into this field,
> though. I really don't like the FCPS system at
> all. Like, yes, I won't deny that the classes are
> good and that I'm receiving one of the best
> educations possible, but some of their policies
> and regulations are ridiculous. Obviously, they're
> not too good at planning for the future, either.
> Never mind that, though. I'm eagerly awaiting the
> meeting tomorrow... did any of you all notice how
> they're not having us meet in the gym this time,
> but go straight to small groups in individual
> classrooms? At least, that's what it said when I
> last checked the agenda for tomorrow.



Bulldog- love your spirit and your insight. The funniest thing about how FCPS posted the change for the Monday night meeting is that they label it as "Improved Boundary Meeting Process for the Current Study." "Improved" is such a loaded word, I can't believe they were able to post that on the site. How about "Changes to the Previous Rules, that we made, which the public participated in, but we didn't like what they said, so we are changing the rules mid-stream" Boundary Meeting Process. When my elementary school-aged kids don't like how a game is going, they just change the rules mid-stream. Makes perfect sense.

Yes, other criteria do exist. However, that criteria does not necessarily lead to have the students who have high academics being redistricted. Most of the options are geographically based and in the sense that by moving those kids in order to meet the other criteria. If they had moved kids from Langley, it would've made more sense considering the fact that those who attend Langley all go to one middleschool as opposed to those kids who go to Chantilly, Oakton, and Westfield, which are all split into different middleschools - we all end up at different school, anyway.

Of all the kids posting here, do any of you still keep friends from middle school (or elementary) who went to other high schools? How important to you is it to go to high school with ALL of your friends from middle school? Do you make friends who are outside your high school, and if so, how? Did you make new friends in high school you didn't know before at all?

I'm just curious because my kids have close friends from probably 10 different schools. Some from scouts, from church, from sports, from split elementary and middle schools, from Odyssey of the Mind, from clubs. All of them have close friends in their current schools, too. And same goes for me.

I'm wondering if we're part of only a tiny minority of families who make friends and have involvements regardless of school boundaries?

I think it's also time to reiterate that redistricting will affect incoming Freshmen only, and current high-schoolers will be grandfathered.

So middle-schoolers, especially at Carson, will already need to find ways to keep up with their friends who go to Oakton, Chantilly, Westfield, South Lakes (via pupil-placement -- there are quite a few), and Herndon. Oh, and Paul VI, Bishop O'Connell, Madeira, Flint Hill, et al. -- don't forget those "splits."

Bulldog, what grade are you in?

Pal, I think you are thinking very soundly. If others would begin to realize that redistricting is going to happen, then perhaps they would get behind a 'move to SL' scenario that is most beneficial to them (e.g., East Floris plus Fox Mill to SL).

I would not pay any attention to future development in Reston. Herndon will nto gain from that argument. It is all high-rise developement around the RTC. The RTC area has historically generated only a handful of kids - people moving there are either single, young marrieds, or empty nesters.

Awesome,

Busing kids to your school will do very little to help the kids already there. It is basically nothing more than cosmetic surgery. The county can clean off all the scuff marks and stick a bunch of white kids in there, but, in reality, that is all about appearance.

Those on the school board should get off their fat rumps and get you whatever tools you need to booster performance and get rid of the trouble makers. If Giuliani could turn Times Square into Disneyland, South Lakes could be transformed into a good school. Ofcourse, the school board would actually have to care about you and they don't. Just their fat rumps.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bulldog, what grade are you in?
>
> Pal, I think you are thinking very soundly. If
> others would begin to realize that redistricting
> is going to happen, then perhaps they would get
> behind a 'move to SL' scenario that is most
> beneficial to them (e.g., East Floris plus Fox
> Mill to SL).
>
> I would not pay any attention to future
> development in Reston. Herndon will nto gain from
> that argument. It is all high-rise developement
> around the RTC. The RTC area has historically
> generated only a handful of kids - people moving
> there are either single, young marrieds, or empty
> nesters.



There is A Floris. There is Not an east Floris and there never will be. So get it straight, wiibrain.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bulldog, what grade are you in?
>
> Pal, I think you are thinking very soundly. If
> others would begin to realize that redistricting
> is going to happen, then perhaps they would get
> behind a 'move to SL' scenario that is most
> beneficial to them (e.g., East Floris plus Fox
> Mill to SL).
>
> I would not pay any attention to future
> development in Reston. Herndon will nto gain from
> that argument. It is all high-rise developement
> around the RTC. The RTC area has historically
> generated only a handful of kids - people moving
> there are either single, young marrieds, or empty
> nesters.

I am a sophomore at Westfield. However, my younger brother is currently an 8th grader at Carson MS. Why?

...

Clarifier,
Yes, I keep up with some of my friends from middleschool and elementary school (the ones who don't go to Westfield with me, that is). I keep in touch with as many as I can, but we never see eachother or anything of that sort, and contacts fade over time, etc. And I did make more friends at Westfield, but I got the sense that I wasn't necessarily welcome (when I was a freshman) since the majority of the Westfield population comes from Stone MS... and also we did not know the specifications about redistricting at the time, we just knew that there was a possibility of us getting moved. I have friends at over 10 of the schools in FCPS, and a lot in the private schools within the area. So, no, you are not part of a minority. It's just tiring and unfair having to establish new connections from getting bumped around, especially when a group of kids, such as the ones who attended Cooper and then Langley, do not have to go through the same situation.

Bulldog, I was just curious. You seem very bright.

Cricket, it's not nice to call people names. I was referring to east of Centreville Road.

To the one who only digests the posts convenient to her, it has been posted here many times that disadvantaged kids do much better when they are educated with a critical mass of middle class (not white) students. I would think that your girls' middle class non-white friends at Oakton would be offended at your statement, unless of course they don't have any non-white friends. SL does not need white kids, it need more middle-class kids.

Pal wrote:

"Does anybdy else agree that Neen looks pretty hot?"

_________

The bird just flew out for a bottle of peroxide.

>
> Clarifier,
> Yes, I keep up with some of my friends from
> middleschool and elementary school (the ones who
> don't go to Westfield with me, that is). I keep in
> touch with as many as I can, but we never see
> eachother or anything of that sort, and contacts
> fade over time, etc. And I did make more friends
> at Westfield, but I got the sense that I wasn't
> necessarily welcome (when I was a freshman) since
> the majority of the Westfield population comes
> from Stone MS... and also we did not know the
> specifications about redistricting at the time, we
> just knew that there was a possibility of us
> getting moved. I have friends at over 10 of the
> schools in FCPS, and a lot in the private schools
> within the area. So, no, you are not part of a
> minority. It's just tiring and unfair having to
> establish new connections from getting bumped
> around, especially when a group of kids, such as
> the ones who attended Cooper and then Langley, do
> not have to go through the same situation.

It sounds like you adapted quite well at Westfield, despite being moved. I think kids are pretty adaptable.

Clarifier,
Eh, I have and I haven't. There's still a sense of not being welcome, even though it's not entirely overruling somewhat due to our school becoming closer to eachother after the VT incident last year... As for kids being adaptable, yeah, they are. It's the way that they are adaptable is what makes the environment. If kids adapt negatively, there's going to be tension in the environment, etc. If kids adapt positively, the environment won't suffer.

SubmissiveWiiRNot,
Thanks, haha. I like my grades to reflect that, too. Which is why I am going back and forth between this and my AP World homework.

imabulldog:

I hope you're in a neighborhood that might come to South Lakes. Your little brother (who probably knows my 8th-grade daughter at Carson who IS going to South Lakes by being pupil-placed) will find he not only is totally welcomed to South Lakes, but that there are hardly any cliques, and that the kids mix up at every level -- all grades, races, cultures, income, etc. hang out together depending on who's where and doing what -- and it's pretty fluid. He would LOVE the community there. And no matter where your parents are on this -- no matter whether any parents who come to SL resisted it -- we will be there for them.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog:
>
> I hope you're in a neighborhood that might come to
> South Lakes. Your little brother (who probably
> knows my 8th-grade daughter at Carson who IS going
> to South Lakes by being pupil-placed) will find he
> not only is totally welcomed to South Lakes, but
> that there are hardly any cliques, and that the
> kids mix up at every level -- all grades, races,
> cultures, income, etc. hang out together depending
> on who's where and doing what -- and it's pretty
> fluid. He would LOVE the community there. And no
> matter where your parents are on this -- no matter
> whether any parents who come to SL resisted it --
> we will be there for them.


I am. I live right by the intersection of West Ox and Fairfax County Parkway, actually - we were supposed to go to Oakton before Westfield was built. I'm happy for your daughter wanting to go to South Lakes, more power to her. However, every high school has its cliques; whether or not they're totally obviously or somewhat confined, that's debatable. Westfield has similar demographics to South Lakes, and I hang out with more than just one race of friends. I don't discriminate on any basis whatsoever since everyone is different, everyone is individual. My brother has friends from different races, incomes, and cultures, too... he doesn't want to get moved away from them, though. He's against it for that reason, and also because he has looked forward to coming to Westfield where has already made some friends and connections. I'm sure you can understand that. My parents are against it because of how my brother and I feel about it. We don't see South Lakes as a bad school, or the South Lakes community as not accepting, it's just we're already in the Westfield community and we like it.

Thomas More, concerned for my children, after I suggested kids shouldn't be glued to gadgets, etc., on school nights, sent me this 'private' message:

"And you'd be an overcontrolling, overemeshed nut case whose kids would be in psychotherapy for their entire adult lives"

Tom, may I call you that? Here's the problem I have with men like you. You got no balls. (pardon my language) If you want to insult me, fine, but be a man and to do it right here in the forum. Do you think that 'private' message thing falls under some kind of forum poster confidentiality rule?

And don't worry. My kids, all three of them, are doing fine. See, after I deprive them of food and water all week, I lock them, tied up, in a closet, all weekend. But, to keep up their spirits, I make up funny limericks and slide them under the door.

And, by the way, as long as we're talking about psychotherapy, you need to get that OCD under control. You edit your posts so many times, the edit notations take up more space than your comments.

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imabulldog:
> >
> > I hope you're in a neighborhood that might come
> to
> > South Lakes. Your little brother (who probably
> > knows my 8th-grade daughter at Carson who IS
> going
> > to South Lakes by being pupil-placed) will find
> he
> > not only is totally welcomed to South Lakes,
> but
> > that there are hardly any cliques, and that the
> > kids mix up at every level -- all grades,
> races,
> > cultures, income, etc. hang out together
> depending
> > on who's where and doing what -- and it's
> pretty
> > fluid. He would LOVE the community there. And
> no
> > matter where your parents are on this -- no
> matter
> > whether any parents who come to SL resisted it
> --
> > we will be there for them.
>
>
> I am. I live right by the intersection of West Ox
> and Fairfax County Parkway, actually - we were
> supposed to go to Oakton before Westfield was
> built. I'm happy for your daughter wanting to go
> to South Lakes, more power to her. However, every
> high school has its cliques; whether or not
> they're totally obviously or somewhat confined,
> that's debatable. Westfield has similar
> demographics to South Lakes, and I hang out with
> more than just one race of friends. I don't
> discriminate on any basis whatsoever since
> everyone is different, everyone is individual. My
> brother has friends from different races, incomes,
> and cultures, too... he doesn't want to get moved
> away from them, though. He's against it for that
> reason, and also because he has looked forward to
> coming to Westfield where has already made some
> friends and connections. I'm sure you can
> understand that. My parents are against it because
> of how my brother and I feel about it. We don't
> see South Lakes as a bad school, or the South
> Lakes community as not accepting, it's just we're
> already in the Westfield community and we like it.

Well, then, would you consider that perhaps if your neighborhood moved to South Lakes, he would stay at least with his neighborhood friends and others from Carson who would come -- and that it would help resolve some serious issues for South Lakes? I.e., be flexible for the betterment of hundreds of other kids?

We ALL understand that most folks don't want to give up current ties. We empathize completely. But those of us who have fought to improve South Lakes for many, many years are looking at the big picture -- a way to help South Lakes AND overenrolled schools AND low-income kids AND provide parity and equal opportunity in programing for 1400 kids at our school now, and for many years to come.

We have an immediate and long-term need married to an immediate opportunity here, and we are asking all our neighbors to embrace the notion that we are greater than the sum of our parts. We are in this for students who are still in diapers, and for the kids we South Lakes adults MUST, as responsible human beings, advocate for now.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Well, then, would you consider that perhaps if
> your neighborhood moved to South Lakes, he would
> stay at least with his neighborhood friends and
> others from Carson who would come -- and that it
> would help resolve some serious issues for South
> Lakes? I.e., be flexible for the betterment of
> hundreds of other kids?
>
> We ALL understand that most folks don't want to
> give up current ties. We empathize completely. But
> those of us who have fought to improve South Lakes
> for many, many years are looking at the big
> picture -- a way to help South Lakes AND
> overenrolled schools AND low-income kids AND
> provide parity and equal opportunity in programing
> for 1400 kids at our school now, and for many
> years to come.
>
> We have an immediate and long-term need married to
> an immediate opportunity here, and we are asking
> all our neighbors to embrace the notion that we
> are greater than the sum of our parts. We are in
> this for students who are still in diapers, and
> for the kids we South Lakes adults MUST, as
> responsible human beings, advocate for now.


Well see, the problem is that not all of Carson would be redistricted together. I'm sure my brother would go with all of his friends to South Lakes, but if they're split, it's a different matter and he'd then have to make a decision based on which of his friends and which of the communities he feels more comfortable with. Same thing with the Franklin kids - they're not all getting bumped together, either.

Honestly, I know you all understand us not wanting to give up current ties, but it's just not fair to ask someone else's kids to move in order to benefit your own. Lots of kids around the country flourish in underpopulated schools - why does there have to be redistricting into South Lakes? The kids at Chantilly and Westfield don't seem to have a problem going there, and the ones that are in the districts and don't want to attend those schools are pupil-placed, like your daughter will be.

South Lakes has been in this state for a while, and even though it has worsened somewhat over time, the county should have recognized and fixed this problem earlier. The students who are "still in diapers" obviously don't care right now considering the fact that they're too young, it's too early to be concerned for them. Things change, and over time, this area will probably become less populated, just as it is projected to be. So why do we have to tamper with it now?

>>>McNair is in the Westfield Pyramid, but I don't
> see you seeking to punish the students of
> Westfield because McNair is a Title I school. But
> that is exactly what you want to do to South
> Lakes, because of some kind of personal vendetta
> against Stuart Gibson.<<<

HUH? Why do you continue to make up silly stuff like this? I have NO personal vendetta against Stu Gibson. He's always been nice to me. Please stop making up such silly lies.

I have NEVER said that I wanted McNair to go to South Lakes. Westfield, being so much larger, can more easily absorb those students but I also looked at the maps. It's inevitable that McNair has to go South Lakes. Without that, they can't get ANY of Floris without setting up an island, one of staff's no nos. Again, please stop making up silly lies. It's not like you. You may disagree with my opinions, but please do not lie about them.

Thank you.

> -----
> > Clarifier Wrote:

>
> We ALL understand that most folks don't want to
> give up current ties. We empathize completely. But
> those of us who have fought to improve South Lakes
> for many, many years are looking at the big
> picture -- a way to help South Lakes AND
> overenrolled schools AND low-income kids AND
> provide parity and equal opportunity in programing
> for 1400 kids at our school now, and for many
> years to come.

You accept this redistricting is making many people unhappy. No amount of empanthy is going to soften that. This whole greater good-type language makes me uneasy. You chose SL for two of your kids--that's fine. You want it to be a stronger school when your daughter enrolls next year, understandable. But honestly, don't expect other people to see it that way. We aren't choosing SL over Oakton as you are. Go ahead and send yours to SL, more power to you. If the low-income kids in the school need parity, find ways to assist them that don't require us to be happy about being asked to switch.

> We have an immediate and long-term need married to
> an immediate opportunity here, and we are asking
> all our neighbors to embrace the notion that we
> are greater than the sum of our parts. We are in
> this for students who are still in diapers, and
> for the kids we South Lakes adults MUST, as
> responsible human beings, advocate for now.

Who is we? If you mean SL, then what about the needs of those of us who feel the need for our kids to go to the schools they expected to attend? I applaud your crusade to improve the lives of others, but if their lives need to improve, it's going to take more than moving some middle class kids to their school. Really, what are the reasons for their disadvantaged-ness? I find it hard to believe that their main issue is the shortage of middle class kids at their school. It seems to me that this is putting a weak band-aid on the problem, and an unwilling band-aid at that. I've always liked the idea of those who want to pupil-place doing that. But can you really say that none of your efforts are because it would be nice for your daughter to have more friends when she goes to SL next year? I know you planned to pupil place her there anyway, but still. I like you and admire your desire to improve SL, but that still doesn't convince me that all this is the best idea, and not to beat a dead horse, but it's also being handled like ##$$%. What happened to all the community input from the first meeting? Okay, I'll stop, it's too frustrating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 04:11PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HUH? Why do you continue to make up silly stuff
> like this? I have NO personal vendetta against
> Stu Gibson. He's always been nice to me. Please
> stop making up such silly lies.
>
> I have NEVER said that I wanted McNair to go to
> South Lakes. Westfield, being so much larger, can
> more easily absorb those students but I also
> looked at the maps. It's inevitable that McNair
> has to go South Lakes. Without that, they can't
> get ANY of Floris without setting up an island,
> one of staff's no nos. Again, please stop making
> up silly lies. It's not like you. You may
> disagree with my opinions, but please do not lie
> about them.
>
> Thank you.

I feel somewhat honored, yet horrified, that people are fighting over kids who go to Floris. McNair is quite close to South Lakes, and in all likelihood, will get redistricted there. As for Floris kids, some of them may be redistrictied, but in some of the options, they want to send them through other high school districts (like, through Fox Mill to South Lakes), which is idiotic... the kids that live closest to South Lakes and Herndon should get bumped, if redistricting happens. It makes no sense to bus kids through other districts to get to their own high school. Which is why it's sort of confusing that the kids that travel so far to get to Langley are not involved in this study when they clearly live closer to South Lakes. If anyone says that Langley isn't overcrowded, I suppose you're right since they just added another addition, but Oakton isn't either and it's only involved in this study because it shares boundaries with Chantilly and Westfield.

>>>Countless studies have shown that disadvantaged
> kids do much better when they comprise a smaller
> percentage of an overall population.<<<<

Oh really? I know that it is what staff says, but there is no real evidence of that. Just look at Richmond. Or Newport News. Their poor kids are in schools together and they outperform our disadvantaged kids who are spread throughout the county. Look at the school in Montgomery county that groups by ability. SCHOOLS look better with fewer disadvantaged kids, but there is no evidence that more high end kids raises the achievement level of disadvantaged students. But more high end kids will help the other high end kids to put pressure on the administration to give them more of the classes that they want. And it will help to improve the SCHOOL'S stats. It won't do anything for those kids on the bottom. They'll still be on the bottom, they won't suddenly be in HL IB courses because kids from Fox Mill and Floris are in their school. They will only do better if more resources are to devoted to them, AND, more importantly, if their elementary schools are forced to use teaching methods and curriculum that has been proven to work. You know, the programs used in the rest of the state, and in other schools in FCPS. It's not difficult to figure out what works and use it. Without doing that, in the elementary schools that feed to South Lakes, it doesn't matter how many high performing students you put in, it won't do a thing to help those students who are behind. It's not like those kids are going to teach the low performing students and get them up to grade level. Those high end kids will be in their own, separate, classes, as the South Lakes students have told us, over and over.

I understand why South Lakes parents want more high performing students. It creates more opportunities for their own high performing students. I get that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 04:34PM by Neen.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Countless studies have shown that
> disadvantaged
> > kids do much better when they comprise a
> smaller
> > percentage of an overall population.<<<<
>
> Oh really? I know that it is what staff says, but
> there is no real evidence of that. Just look at
> Richmond. Or Newport News. They're poor kids are
> in schools together and they outperform our
> disadvantaged kids who are spread throughout the
> county. Look at the school in Montgomery county
> that groups by ability. SCHOOLS look better with
> fewer disadvantaged kids, but there is no evidence
> that more high end kids raises the achievement
> level of disadvantaged students. But more high
> end kids will help the other high end kids to put
> pressure on the administration to give them more
> of the classes that they want. And it will help
> to improve the SCHOOL'S stats. It won't do
> anything for those kids on the bottom. They'll
> still be on the bottom, they won't suddenly be in
> HL IB courses because kids from Fox Mill and
> Floris are in their school. They will only do
> better if more resources are to devoted to them,
> AND, more importantly, if their elementary schools
> are forced to use teaching methods and curriculum
> that has been proven to work. You know, the
> programs used in the rest of the state, and in
> other schools in FCPS. It's not difficult to
> figure out what works and use it. Without doing
> that, in the elementary schools that feed to South
> Lakes, it doesn't matter how many high performing
> students you put in, it won't do a thing to help
> those students who are behind. It's not like
> those kids are going to teach the low performing
> students and get them up to grade level. Those
> high end kids will be in their own, separate,
> classes, as the South Lakes students have told us,
> over and over.
>
> I understand why South Lakes parents want more
> high performing students. It creates more
> opportunities for their own high performing
> students. I get that.


THANK YOU! Honestly... if anything, by moving high performing students into South Lakes would hurt those students who are low performers. Granted, South Lakes does have some high performing students, and by bringing more in can only hurt the low performing students. The county needs to focus on helping those students, and not trying to redrawn the lines in hopes of the problem fixing itself.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent wrote:


"What happened to all the community input from the first meeting? Okay, I'll stop, it's too frustrating."

___________________________

The meeting, just like the new paint at South Lakes, was just for appearance. The school board never intended to listen to the parents. As soon as we were out the door, they threw our concerns, suggestions, etc., right into the garbage.

Who is fighting over Floris kids? It seems to me that it's more fighting AGAINST McNair students.

>>>The meeting, just like the new paint at South Lakes, was just for appearance. The school board never intended to listen to the parents. As soon as we were out the door, they threw our concerns, suggestions, etc., right into the garbage.<<<

Yes. Things didn't turn out quite as they expected. That's why we can't even address them at this meeting. They had hoped to get support for what they want to do, but that didn't work out for them. Now they can hope we choose the scenario that they have chosen, but not a big deal if we don't. They'll just throw that away too and do what they planned to do since last summer.

Birdlover,
You're absolutely right. The school board is going to do whatever they want to do, anyway, the only reason why they're having these meetings is for show. Hopefully, when we know what they do intend to do for next school year after the vote in February, parents will be able to fight it and take it to court if they choose to do so, or whatever.

Neen,
It seems to me people are fighting for Floris kids to go to South Lakes in place of McNair kids. I saw on here that the SLHS PTA actually had a meeting in which they wanted Floris kids to moved in option 3 as a opposed to McNair students.

>>>The county needs to focus on helping those students, and not trying to redrawn the lines in hopes of the problem fixing itself.<<<

Redrawing the lines helps to hide the problem but does nothing to fix it. That has to begin in elementary school.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent,

I don’t think the only problem at SL is the lack of middle-class kids, but it is one of the bigger ones. Middle-class kids are more likely to take IB classes and score higher on the SAT. The SAT is not a purely knowledge based test. There are tons of little things you have to know about it before you take it. I like to think I’m pretty smart, but my SAT scores increased significantly after taking a prep course. And who has the money to pay for prep courses? Also, by getting more kids we could fill classes like HL IB Physics, because I don’t think we were able to offer it this year.

(oh, and I don’t mean to offend anybody by this post. I don’t judge people based on socio-economic status, I just saying what I’ve seen)

>>>>It seems to me people are fighting for Floris kids to go to South Lakes in place of McNair kids. I saw on here that the SLHS PTA actually had a meeting in which they wanted Floris kids to moved in option 3 as a opposed to McNair students.<<<

Oh, thanks. I wasn't aware of that. SL PTA is pushing for an option #5? I can't imagine that they will get that. Nor can I see how they can ask for Floris kids to jump across McNair students to go to SL. If SL gets any Floris students, they also have to take McNair students.

I'm not sure people are getting the fact that we are in this together and that the school board is required to look beyond NIMBYism. And please don't accuse SLHS of NIMBYism -- we are not saying "NO" to welcoming students. Others are saying "NO" we don't want to help you.

Why should South Lakes be 700 underenrolled (bad use of resources), without the teaching positions and thus classes that full enrollment provides (and that surrounding schools provide b/c they have enough kids -- tax parity), and force families to commute huge distances (bad for traffic, time, kids, families, resources) when there is an excellent school with lots of capacity just next door?

This isn't about the families who will be there for four years and then out they go. It's about the long-term prospects at South Lakes and for the county.

There are a huge number of issues that parents have raised that reveal they are very under-educated about education.

And agin, I have to ask -- why is it that so many Oakton/Chantilly/Westfield parents would not object if their kids get redistricted into Oakton/Chantilly/Westfield or OMG sent to TJ? But not the school next door?

Why are so many parents so worried that their kids will be traumatized by a change of high schools? (I've already addressed this -- the kids are being influenced by the fears of their parents, period.)

The bottom line is that the need at South Lakes (and the resource needs of the county itself) far outweigh the need for kids to go to a school they haven't even gone to yet.

lets all meet in the auditorium or the gym and have one person speak. the only thing that person will be allowed to say is "MORITORIUM". We will them begin a chant of this until FCPD asks all to leave. We will then leave orderly and do the same thing at Oakton in acouple of weeks. The SB's rules will change again by that time anyway.

>>>I don’t think the only problem at SL is the lack of middle-class kids, but it is one of the bigger ones. Middle-class kids are more likely to take IB classes and score higher on the SAT. The SAT is not a purely knowledge based test. There are tons of little things you have to know about it before you take it. I like to think I’m pretty smart, but my SAT scores increased significantly after taking a prep course. And who has the money to pay for prep courses? Also, by getting more kids we could fill classes like HL IB Physics, because I don’t think we were able to offer it this year.<<<<

Your subsequent sentences dispute what your first sentence states. If the problem isn't a need for more high performing students, then what is it?

Madison never had AP physics and still doesn't have any math course beyond BC calculus. But I've never heard anyone say that Madison needs more high performing students so that they have those classes. Many of the smaller high schools can't offer everything. Do they all get redistricted, with more high performing kids moved in? Are there enough high performing students to do that?

Gibbs,
I am sure that they will block off any access to the gym and cafeteria since staff and Stu read this forum.

I do hope that people in each small group will again express their displeasure with this sham of a process. The next time they do a boundary change, the school board will do things differently. They won't bother with asking the community to approve what they are going to do. That's my guess. It didn't work for them this time and it won't work next time so they'll scrap it and just go directly to redistricting as they see fit.

>>>>The bottom line is that the need at South Lakes (and the resource needs of the county itself) far outweigh the need for kids to go to a school they haven't even gone to yet.<<<

Yes, we get that. "Schools" are more important than kids or parents or anything they want for their children. Got it. Government is just doing what is best for the government SCHOOL. The public, the parents, be damned.

Why did they even bother to ask the public?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gibbs,
> I am sure that they will block off any access to
> the gym and cafeteria since staff and Stu read
> this forum.
>
> I do hope that people in each small group will
> again express their displeasure with this sham of
> a process. The next time they do a boundary
> change, the school board will do things
> differently. They won't bother with asking the
> community to approve what they are going to do.
> That's my guess. It didn't work for them this
> time and it won't work next time so they'll scrap
> it and just go directly to redistricting as they
> see fit.

There are two different ways into the gym, and three different ways into the cafeteria if you're really trying to get to them, although are they going to actually be in those locations? I think the meeting is only happeneing in small groups in varying classrooms, so you're better off just going directly to there.

Open question to Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly:

If you had plenty of capacity, would you or would you not be willing to accept a Title I elementary school into your pyramid, and why?

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Open question to Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly:
>
> If you had plenty of capacity, would you or would
> you not be willing to accept a Title I elementary
> school into your pyramid, and why?


I was under the impression that Westfield already does? Isn't McNair a Title I elementary school?

imabulldog: Would your parents fight to keep it?

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog: Would your parents fight to keep it?

Uh, why are you only asking about my parents? I'd fight to keep them. They're some of the best people I've ever met. A lot of them are in my classes. I wouldn't want them to move.

imabulldog Wrote:

>
> THANK YOU! Honestly... if anything, by moving high
> performing students into South Lakes would hurt
> those students who are low performers. Granted,
> South Lakes does have some high performing
> students, and by bringing more in can only hurt
> the low performing students. The county needs to
> focus on helping those students, and not trying to
> redrawn the lines in hopes of the problem fixing
> itself.

The problem with your comments are that you can't have it both ways. You stated this morning that the McNair kids benefit when they go to Carson and Westfield. Now you are saying that low income kids won't benefit if they are mixed with high-performing kids at SL. So which is it.

Anyway, we are not talking about high-performing kids, but middle of the road kids. We don't have enough of them at SL.\

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
>
> >
> > THANK YOU! Honestly... if anything, by moving
> high
> > performing students into South Lakes would hurt
> > those students who are low performers. Granted,
> > South Lakes does have some high performing
> > students, and by bringing more in can only hurt
> > the low performing students. The county needs
> to
> > focus on helping those students, and not trying
> to
> > redrawn the lines in hopes of the problem
> fixing
> > itself.
>
> The problem with your comments are that you can't
> have it both ways. You stated this morning that
> the McNair kids benefit when they go to Carson and
> Westfield. Now you are saying that low income
> kids won't benefit if they are mixed with
> high-performing kids at SL. So which is it.
>
> Anyway, we are not talking about high-performing
> kids, but middle of the road kids. We don't have
> enough of them at SL.\


Well, they do benefit from going to Carson. I don't believe I said that they necessarily benefit from going to Westfield considering the fact that Carson doesn't just feed into Westfield, but to Oakton and Chantilly as well? I didn't say that low INCOME students wouldn't benefit from being mixed with high performance kids, I said low PERFORMANCE kids wouldn't benefit from it. By performance, I mean academic performance, just in case you were confused or something. Since the county is not planning on redistricting the middleschools, then the McNair kids would still go to Carson and still benefit from that, but the low performing students at South Lakes would not benefit from the income of high performing students from middleschools such as Carson. I also said that South Lakes shouldn't be able to handpick the students that they will probably receive, but that they should just accept the ones that do get.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bulldog, I was just curious. You seem very
> bright.
>
> Cricket, it's not nice to call people names. I
> was referring to east of Centreville Road.
>




And it is not nice to split elementary schools, now is it?

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Open question to Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly:
>
> If you had plenty of capacity, would you or would
> you not be willing to accept a Title I elementary
> school into your pyramid, and why?


Westfield already does.

Well, Hughes has a brand new principal who was an AP at SL for the last four years. She has a pretty good idea of where here kids need to be when they leave for high school, so I think you are going to see some changes and improvements there.

For a sophomore, you sure do know a lot of minutiae about education (Title I schools) and the boundary study.

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imabulldog: Would your parents fight to keep
> it?
>
> Uh, why are you only asking about my parents? I'd
> fight to keep them. They're some of the best
> people I've ever met. A lot of them are in my
> classes. I wouldn't want them to move.

Good point -- I applaud your involvement, and I'm sure you have influence. But I am not hearing other Westfield people writing that they are really concerned that three out of the four options move part of McNair out of their district and into South Lakes, and ALL of them move part of McNair into Herndon?

There are three Title I schools in Cluster VIII, one of them is Dogwood, and it goes to South Lakes and we are grateful. Another is Hutchison and it goes to Herndon. Mosby Woods goes to Oakton.

So do you think it is fair that either Herndon or South Lakes should accept a second one, in terms of socioeconomic balance? Why aren't Westfield families complaining that they would lose part or all of this school in any option?

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bulldog, I was just curious. You seem very
> > bright.
> >
> > Cricket, it's not nice to call people names. I
> > was referring to east of Centreville Road.
> >
>
>
>
>
> And it is not nice to split elementary schools,
> now is it?

So you don't support McNair being split, as it currently is and will be in the scenarios presented? Would you prefer to have all of McNair at Westfield, even the part that now goes to Herndon?

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Well, then, would you consider that perhaps if
> > your neighborhood moved to South Lakes, he
> would
> > stay at least with his neighborhood friends and
> > others from Carson who would come -- and that
> it
> > would help resolve some serious issues for
> South
> > Lakes? I.e., be flexible for the betterment of
> > hundreds of other kids?
> >
> > We ALL understand that most folks don't want to
> > give up current ties. We empathize completely.
> But
> > those of us who have fought to improve South
> Lakes
> > for many, many years are looking at the big
> > picture -- a way to help South Lakes AND
> > overenrolled schools AND low-income kids AND
> > provide parity and equal opportunity in
> programing
> > for 1400 kids at our school now, and for many
> > years to come.
> >
> > We have an immediate and long-term need married
> to
> > an immediate opportunity here, and we are
> asking
> > all our neighbors to embrace the notion that we
> > are greater than the sum of our parts. We are
> in
> > this for students who are still in diapers, and
> > for the kids we South Lakes adults MUST, as
> > responsible human beings, advocate for now.
>
>
> Well see, the problem is that not all of Carson
> would be redistricted together. I'm sure my
> brother would go with all of his friends to South
> Lakes, but if they're split, it's a different
> matter and he'd then have to make a decision based
> on which of his friends and which of the
> communities he feels more comfortable with. Same
> thing with the Franklin kids - they're not all
> getting bumped together, either.
>
> Honestly, I know you all understand us not wanting
> to give up current ties, but it's just not fair to
> ask someone else's kids to move in order to
> benefit your own. Lots of kids around the country
> flourish in underpopulated schools - why does
> there have to be redistricting into South Lakes?
> The kids at Chantilly and Westfield don't seem to
> have a problem going there, and the ones that are
> in the districts and don't want to attend those
> schools are pupil-placed, like your daughter will
> be.
>
> South Lakes has been in this state for a while,
> and even though it has worsened somewhat over
> time, the county should have recognized and fixed
> this problem earlier. The students who are "still
> in diapers" obviously don't care right now
> considering the fact that they're too young, it's
> too early to be concerned for them. Things change,
> and over time, this area will probably become less
> populated, just as it is projected to be. So why
> do we have to tamper with it now?


Good Job, imabulldog. don't let the selfish SL crowd, like Clarifier think your family or any other Floris/RCMS family needs to make a sacrifice for their cause that they claim to have been diligently working on for so many years!

Cricket: What do you think about UNITING schools, finally, under some scenarios? Say, Navy? And keeping McNair together and in their current school? Would you be willing to trade two unitings for one split?

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Clarifier Wrote:
>
> Good point -- I applaud your involvement, and I'm
> sure you have influence. But I am not hearing
> other Westfield people writing that they are
> really concerned that three out of the four
> options move part of McNair out of their district
> and into South Lakes, and ALL of them move part of
> McNair into Herndon?
>
> There are three Title I schools in Cluster VIII,
> one of them is Dogwood, and it goes to South Lakes
> and we are grateful. Another is Hutchison and it
> goes to Herndon. Mosby Woods goes to Oakton.
>
> So do you think it is fair that either Herndon or
> South Lakes should accept a second one, in terms
> of socioeconomic balance? Why aren't Westfield
> families complaining that they would lose part or
> all of this school in any option?

I can't speak for all of the people in the Westfield community. I don't necessarily see a lot of them posting on here, anyway. I guess they'll speak out at the meeting tomorrow, but I can't speak for everyone.

As for accepting a second one, yes and no. Herndon or South Lakes should be prepared to deal with any of their incoming students, regardless of the schools they have previously attended. No, I don't think it's necessarily fair for South Lakes having to accept a second one, so why not just leave it as it is?

I should have directed these comments to Bulldog:

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, Hughes has a brand new principal who was an
> AP at SL for the last four years. She has a
> pretty good idea of where kids need to be
> when they leave for high school, so I think you
> are going to see some changes and improvements
> there.
>
> For a sophomore, you sure do know a lot of
> minutiae about education (Title I schools) and the
> boundary study.

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imabulldog: Would your parents fight to keep
> it?
>
> Uh, why are you only asking about my parents? I'd
> fight to keep them. They're some of the best
> people I've ever met. A lot of them are in my
> classes. I wouldn't want them to move.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be careful,imabulldog , the South Lakes adults are circling you.....like you are prey...they're about to pounce.

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Be careful,imabulldog , the South Lakes adults are
> circling you.....like you are prey...they're about
> to pounce.

Don't worry about Bulldog, Driver. With a combative moniker like Bulldog, and some very mature opinions and thoughts for someone at the tender age 15/16, I think Bulldog can handle anything that comes his/her way. But you are so nice to defend a Westfield student. Too bad you didn't do the same for the SL students that you went after last week.

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Clarifier Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > imabulldog: Would your parents fight to keep
> > it?
> >
> > Uh, why are you only asking about my parents?
> I'd
> > fight to keep them. They're some of the best
> > people I've ever met. A lot of them are in my
> > classes. I wouldn't want them to move.
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------
> Be careful,imabulldog , the South Lakes adults are
> circling you.....like you are prey...they're about
> to pounce.


They can pounce all they want, I'm happy to hear their arguments.


SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, Hughes has a brand new principal who was an
> AP at SL for the last four years. She has a
> pretty good idea of where kids need to be
> when they leave for high school, so I think you
> are going to see some changes and improvements
> there.
>
> For a sophomore, you sure do know a lot of
> minutiae about education (Title I schools) and the
> boundary study.

Haha, you'd be surprised how many kids actually do know a lot about FCPS. I'm not the only that's that involved.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Clarifier Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > imabulldog: Would your parents fight to keep
> > it?
> >
> > Uh, why are you only asking about my parents?
> I'd
> > fight to keep them. They're some of the best
> > people I've ever met. A lot of them are in my
> > classes. I wouldn't want them to move.
>
> Good point -- I applaud your involvement, and I'm
> sure you have influence. But I am not hearing
> other Westfield people writing that they are
> really concerned that three out of the four
> options move part of McNair out of their district
> and into South Lakes, and ALL of them move part of
> McNair into Herndon?
>
> There are three Title I schools in Cluster VIII,
> one of them is Dogwood, and it goes to South Lakes
> and we are grateful. Another is Hutchison and it
> goes to Herndon. Mosby Woods goes to Oakton.
>
> So do you think it is fair that either Herndon or
> South Lakes should accept a second one, in terms
> of socioeconomic balance? Why aren't Westfield
> families complaining that they would lose part or
> all of this school in any option?


And how many Westfield people do you think are actually writing here? Not many. Most of us are out scouting around looking at ALL the potential high schools we might get fed to again! but thanks for your concern

To Cricket, who wrote: Good Job, imabulldog. don't let the selfish SL crowd, like Clarifier think your family or any other Floris/RCMS family needs to make a sacrifice for their cause that they claim to have been diligently working on for so many years!

Where were YOU all these many years? South Lakes has been working to get parity for the 18 years I have been involved. The IB program, a new principal, a model campus with Langston Hughes -- all these things have been the result of hard labors of love for this school. Our "cause" is our children and our school. Like yours.

And, what do you mean, exactly, by "sacrifice?" We are not asking the kids who now benefit from your high schools to sacrifice anything. They will stay put. We are asking for enrollment from kids who haven't even gone to high school yet -- and who are going to have to work to retain friends from their current school no matter where they go.

I don't see that seeking equal opportunity and parity in terms of resources and population balances is selfish. This reminds me of arguments made during the Brown v. Board of Education era. Blacks were being selfish for wanting equal opportunity? The same resources? The same programs? Separate but equal -- hmmm -- anybody here care to agree that it works?

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Haha, you'd be surprised how many kids actually do
> know a lot about FCPS. I'm not the only that's
> that involved.

Haha, that is funny. When South Lakes students were posting here last week, they were accused of all kinds of things, like being adults posing as children, etc. They were not very well received by the very parents now aligned with you.

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Clarifier Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > imabulldog: Would your parents fight to keep
> > it?
> >
> > Uh, why are you only asking about my parents?
> I'd
> > fight to keep them. They're some of the best
> > people I've ever met. A lot of them are in my
> > classes. I wouldn't want them to move.
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------
> Be careful,imabulldog , the South Lakes adults are
> circling you.....like you are prey...they're about
> to pounce.

Yes, imabulldog. I think that you have probably offered enough great input. But VADriver is right. Clarifier is already acting like the HYPNOTIST!

Hey Cricket, were your efforts to reach Bruce Butler last week to report the SL students posting during the day successful? Did he reach out to you?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Haha, you'd be surprised how many kids actually
> do
> > know a lot about FCPS. I'm not the only that's
> > that involved.
>
> Haha, that is funny. When South Lakes students
> were posting here last week, they were accused of
> all kinds of things, like being adults posing as
> children, etc. They were not very well received
> by the very parents now aligned with you.

That's probably because they were defending South Lakes and were in favor of redistricting, which most of the parents on here aren't necessarily saying (at least the ones that defended me aren't). South Lakes isn't a bad school, people must realize that. I'm just fed up with this whole redistricting process and as to why it must happen, etc.

"So do you think it is fair that either Herndon or South Lakes should accept a second [Title 1 school], in terms of socioeconomic balance? Why aren't Westfield families complaining that they would lose part or all of this school in any option?"

Poor McNair, it seems that no one is eager to have those kids. Even SL doesn't really want them. After all we've heard about how great SL is, it seems like it's not so great that it wants MORE poor kids. It may not have cliches, it may be one big happy family. Or it may be so "diverse" that any more diversity would really sink it. Either way, Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly parents generally aren't interested in sending our kids into a social experiment. Hey, even Democrat Bill Clinton sent his kid to the best school he could. Is it really that surprising that we want to send our kids to the best schools we can? (and yes, Clarifier/CH, I know that for you that means SL)

BTW, the minority of FME parents who were either in favor of going to SL or sort of apathetic about it are FURIOUS about the 4 options. For some reason, it seems that they were under the impression that if Fox Mill would go to SL, so would Crossfield, Floris, or some other combination of similar elementary schools. Obviously the numbers didn't ever justify that presumption, but at any rate the slim support that redistricting ever had in my neighborhood has disappeared. There are phone banks, fliers, emergency meetings going on this weekend. Too bad more of them weren't reading this message board for the last month.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 05:36PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Cricket, who wrote: Good Job, imabulldog. don't
> let the selfish SL crowd, like Clarifier think
> your family or any other Floris/RCMS family needs
> to make a sacrifice for their cause that they
> claim to have been diligently working on for so
> many years!
>
> Where were YOU all these many years? South Lakes
> has been working to get parity for the 18 years I
> have been involved. The IB program, a new
> principal, a model campus with Langston Hughes --
> all these things have been the result of hard
> labors of love for this school. Our "cause" is our
> children and our school. Like yours.
>
> And, what do you mean, exactly, by "sacrifice?" We
> are not asking the kids who now benefit from your
> high schools to sacrifice anything. They will stay
> put. We are asking for enrollment from kids who
> haven't even gone to high school yet -- and who
> are going to have to work to retain friends from
> their current school no matter where they go.
>
> I don't see that seeking equal opportunity and
> parity in terms of resources and population
> balances is selfish. This reminds me of arguments
> made during the Brown v. Board of Education era.
> Blacks were being selfish for wanting equal
> opportunity? The same resources? The same
> programs? Separate but equal -- hmmm -- anybody
> here care to agree that it works?



wow, 18 years of hard diligent effort and it has come to this! ha! I hardly think that your list of accomplishments took 18 years, but too bad if so.

asking 7th and 8th grade little brothers and sisters and FAMILIES to drop their community ties (after how many other "droppings" for boundary changes) so they can truly understand the plight of your community IS selfish.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "So do you think it is fair that either Herndon or
> South Lakes should accept a second , in terms of
> socioeconomic balance? Why aren't Westfield
> families complaining that they would lose part or
> all of this school in any option?"
>
> Poor McNair, it seems that no one is eager to have
> those kids. Even SL doesn't really want them.
> After all we've heard about how great SL is, it
> seems like it's not so great that it wants MORE
> poor kids. It may not have cliches, it may be one
> big happy family. Or it may be so "diverse" that
> any more diversity would really sink it. Either
> way, Oakton/Westfield/Chantilly parents generally
> aren't interested in sending our kids into a
> social experiment. Hey, even Democrat Bill Clinton
> sent his kid to the best school he could. Is it
> really that surprising that we want to send our
> kids to the best schools we can? (and yes,
> Clarifier/CM, I know that for you that means SL)
>
> BTW, the minority of FME parents who were either
> in favor of going to SL or sort of apathetic about
> it are FURIOUS about the 4 options. For some
> reason, it seems that they were under the
> impression that if Fox Mill would go to SL, so
> would Crossfield, Floris, or some other
> combination of similar elementary schools.
> Obviously the numbers didn't ever justify that
> presumption, but at any rate the slim support that
> redistricting ever had in my neighborhood has
> disappeared. There are phone banks, fliers,
> emergency meetings going on this weekend. Too bad
> more of them weren't reading this message board
> for the last month.

If they were smart, since they will probably be moved anyway, they would be joining efforts to make sure that the outcome is to their liking (e.g., their wish that Crossfield or part of Floris would come with).

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That's probably because they were defending South
> Lakes and were in favor of redistricting, which
> most of the parents on here aren't necessarily
> saying (at least the ones that defended me
> aren't).

How can you excuse them for bad behavior. It was not ok for them to go after the SL kids like they did.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, the minority of FME parents who were either
> in favor of going to SL or sort of apathetic about
> it are FURIOUS about the 4 options. For some
> reason, it seems that they were under the
> impression that if Fox Mill would go to SL, so
> would Crossfield, Floris, or some other
> combination of similar elementary schools.
> Obviously the numbers didn't ever justify that
> presumption, but at any rate the slim support that
> redistricting ever had in my neighborhood has
> disappeared. There are phone banks, fliers,
> emergency meetings going on this weekend. Too bad
> more of them weren't reading this message board
> for the last month.

They're furious because they thought that Carson would get redistricted together, if anything. All of the options for redistricting actually make Carson (and Franklin) worse feeder schools than they are now. That's probably why they're so mad.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > That's probably because they were defending
> South
> > Lakes and were in favor of redistricting, which
> > most of the parents on here aren't necessarily
> > saying (at least the ones that defended me
> > aren't).
>
> How can you excuse them for bad behavior. It was
> not ok for them to go after the SL kids like they
> did.

I didn't excuse them for bad behavior. South Lakes kids are not at fault. I just said that they South Lakes kids who were on here were probably posting in favor of the redistricting, so that's why they received nasty behavior from parents/students who are opposed to redistricting.

Apparentlly FCPS is bypassing their process and redistricting for the new elementary school in advance. They'll tell us about it next year when they
ask for more community input to ignore.


justguessing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just guessing here, but I think that the
> Floris/McNair splits shown in options 1 and 4 are
> what might end up being the boundaries of the new
> elementary school being built in that area. To
> quote the fcps office of facilities planning "A
> new elementary school, 'Coppermine', is scheduled
> to open in the 2009-2010 school year and will
> provide relief to overcrowding at McNair and other
> nearby elementary schools."

imabulldog,

When you start seeing this, run, or at least, blink rapidly.
Attachments:

Cricket Wrote:
>
> wow, 18 years of hard diligent effort and it has
> come to this! ha! I hardly think that your list of
> accomplishments took 18 years, but too bad if so.
>
>
> asking 7th and 8th grade little brothers and
> sisters and FAMILIES to drop their community ties
> (after how many other "droppings" for boundary
> changes) so they can truly understand the plight
> of your community IS selfish.

Boy Cricket, you are clearly very angry, and getting more so with each passing day. I understand that you are frustrated, but please don't impugn our efforts to help our community school. You should be grateful that parents who care exist. They help make your school what it is.

BTW, about that response from Bruce Butler?

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imabulldog,
>
> When you start seeing this, run, or at least,
> blink rapidly.

Uh, what?