HokieFan, you never explained the problem with having larger percentages of minorities.

Getting angry that there aren't enough minorities at certain schools would be like faulting sub-saharan Africa for not having enough white kids in their schools. THERE JUST AREN'T ENOUGH MINORITIES TO GO AROUND, AS WONDERFUL AS IT WOULD BE. So lets just put down the race issue before people start realizing South Lakes' lack of asian, pacific-islander, and American Indian students.

I'm not getting angry, calm down. I'm simply asking you to explain the problem you seem to have that South Lakes is so diverse.

Again, I pose my question, Why should we be worried that South Lakes has a lack of white and Asian students?

You missed my point. I said, "Following Lee Parent's Logic." (NOT mine).

I personally don't care if there are higher quantities of minorities. I don't think it is a problem. Lee Parent was making the point that Oakton should have higher quantities of minorities, despite the fact that they are on par with what they should have, considering Fairfax County averages. Lee Parent somehow believed that not having higher percentages of minorities (despite the fact that they just aren't living in our county) somehow reflects negatively on a school. I was merely showing that that line of logicing does not make sense.

I personally don't find demographics a very important aspect in the redistricting argument. We're all people, right? Why does it matter?

So now it does not matter? It mattered to the many parents who were talking about how South Lakes is somehow better than other county schools for going against county racial statistics and being MORE diverse than the average population. It warranted a response from me, because although in a perfect world race wouldn't come up as a factor, for some reason people still bring it up. That is great South Lakes is diverse, but it does not reflect negatively on schools such as Oakton. We cannot generate minorities out of thin air. We cannot have larger percentages than are actually living in our district (unless we do some further redistricting to include Washington, DC).

It also mattered to you, when you three times demanded an answer from me the second you thought I was somehow being "racially insensitive." Now I hope you understand how Lee Parent's accusations were faulty, and her supporters were clinging to a hopelessly twisted and flawed argument.

I don't claim that South Lakes is better than your schools, and neither do my peers. We do agree, however, that South Lakes receives a bad reputation generally based on the fact that it IS so diverse. (I'm not saying that you did this, I'm just saying in general.) Oakton is no better or worse than South Lakes because it lacks the diversity we have. Some would claim that the diversity better prepares students for the real world, I agree, but I do not chastise Oakton, or any other school for that matter, for having whites as the majority.

It only mattered to me because I misinterpreted your post as being racist. I apologize since this was apparently not the case.

Lee Parent,

Fairfax County racial breakdown:

63.0% White
8.8% Black
12.4% Hispanic
15.8% Asian

Oakton H.S racial breakdown

67.0% White
5.0% Black
6.7% Hispanic
17.0% Asian

So, according to your grand vision of balancing racial proportions, you want us to give you a few of our Whites and Asians. Correct?

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boundary change options are online at fcps.edu
> now.
>
> Brief synopsis:
>
> option 1: mcnair and part of floris split between
> herndon and south lakes
> oak hill to westfield
>
> option 2: mcnair split between herndon and south
> lakes
> madison island to south lakes
> fox mill to south lakes
> oak hill to oakton
>
> option 3: same as option 2 except navy to oakton
> instead of oak hill
>
> option 4: aldrin & armstong to south lakes
> part of mcnair and floris to herndon
> madison island to south lakes
> oak hill to westfield
>
> Any preferences?


Do any of these involve moving your kids?

Stephanie wrote:

"My post today is perhaps a bit different then those of which I normally might write about"

No, it's pretty much the same.

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: teh hax (IP Logged)
Date: November 28, 2007 08:30PM


i toldz you all i hav hax
maybe you listen next tymez
__________________________________________________________________________

That's right, you told us..site is down.

Site is compromised once again...thanks alot South Lakes. Really promotes your school!

Site is compromised once again...thanks alot South Lakes. Really promotes your school!

>>>I think all of our schools should be diverse-not just a few, as it is now.<<<

Why? There is ZERO evidence that any educational outcome is improved by 'diversity'. ZERO. Nada.

>>>please explain how we are going to make every school have a larger percentage of minorities when they aren't even in the county to begin with?<<<<

Good question. Some people here just suck at math. Probably went to an IB school.

Oakton Parent,
South Lakes parents will want option #4 but that doesn't give South Lakes enough numbers.

Everyone else will want option #1, including Fox Mill, Crossfield, Aldrin, Armstrong and the Vienna Island.

Option #1 will the adopted by the school board because that will be the path of least resistance and the most support.

Hokie fan,
Oakton should import Blacks from DC and force them to live in their school area. It's only fair.

The Mayor of Vienna should force everyone in that town who wants to move to sell their house to a Black family. There is way too little diversity in that town. After that, McLean and Great Falls must sell only to the 'right' minorities too.

Don't you diversity folks EVER get sick of talking about race?

I reckon not.

struck againz
and who says i amz at south lakez?

2 for 2

My neighborhood is in the Crossfield area andis not affected, but we many friends in Fox Mill, Oak Hill and Floris. Ideally they would choose an option that would not perturb them too much. I don't see the logic in trying to reduce the size of Chantilly by 350 students...would it make any difference?

I thought option 4 did the best job of not overcrowding south lakes..few other schools are at 100% of capacity in these scenarios, but South Lakes would essentially be there in 1 through 3, and the schools around it like Madison are the ones with the highest capacity already. So I would pick option 4 but modify to move all of mcnair to herndon, leaving floris in westfield and oak hill in chantilly.

Lee Parent:

I spoke to the Whites and they said, "no."

The Asians also said, "no." Most offered this explanation:

"We came to U.S. for better life. We don't have our children bused to school next to government housing project."

One couple became irate, said I was disturbing their daughter's violin lesson, and called me a 'gwailouh' as they kicked me out the door. I almost fell down the steps.

Soooooo, Lee Parent, we're gonna have to sweeten up this deal, alot.

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Site is compromised once again...thanks alot South
> Lakes. Really promotes your school!

VaDriver. Get a life.

"A SLHS kid told me there was no Santa and no Easter bunny....and SLHS made my taxes too high, house price fall, and oil prices skyrocket, and made me buy Enron stock, and told me that Putin is a good fella.....the Clintons suck too. damn socialist democrats...they did this..they hate freedom...how am i going to talk to birdlover now.....i wonder if she is a she....hey, Back on Line...phew.!!

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VaDriver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Site is compromised once again...thanks alot
> South
> > Lakes. Really promotes your school!
>
> VaDriver. Get a life.
>
> "A SLHS kid told me there was no Santa and no
> Easter bunny....and SLHS made my taxes too high,
> house price fall, and oil prices skyrocket, and
> made me buy Enron stock, and told me that Putin is
> a good fella.....the Clintons suck too. damn
> socialist democrats...they did this..they hate
> freedom...how am i going to talk to birdlover
> now.....i wonder if she is a she....hey, Back on
> Line...phew.!!
_________________________________________________________________________________
Ok Padre, where were you at 8:30 PM, November 28th when FU was hacked???? Oh, thats right, you were swinging in your hammock...Hard to believe Birdlover is your alibi. To all other South Lakers...

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-152.4
Computer Hacking and Unauthorized Access Laws

Hacking is breaking into computer systems, frequently with intentions to alter or modify existing settings. Sometimes malicious in nature, these break-ins may cause damage or disruption to computer systems or networks.

"Unauthorized access" entails approaching, trespassing within, communicating with, storing data in, retrieving data from, or otherwise intercepting and changing computer resources without consent. These laws relate to either or both, or any other actions that interfere with computers, systems, programs or networks.

18.2-152.4. Computer trespass; penalty.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person, with malicious intent, to:
1. Temporarily or permanently remove, halt, or otherwise disable any computer data, computer programs or computer software from a computer or computer network;
2. Cause a computer to malfunction, regardless of how long the malfunction persists;
3. Alter, disable, or erase any computer data, computer programs or computer software;

Option 3 is the most likely scenario...

This is most unfortunate for the Fox Mill folks. Fox Mill overwhelmingly expressed their objections to this at the ballot box in Nov by voting for Christine by a 2:1 margin. Stu the arogant SOB couldn't give a damn. He has the rest of his precincts locked up 2:1 in his favor with the exception of Floris which narrowly voted for Christine.

But, Floris will be left out of it (this time) becuase they have been jerked around several times in the last few years between Oakton, Westfield, Chantilly.

Navy will be moving to Oakton instead of Oak Hill because Navy was a supporter of Kathy Smith at the ballot box in Nov. Apparently they are on board with her plans for redistricting.

Oak Hill (aka Kinross) voted overwhelmingly for Kathy's opponent in Nov. They are very vocal and will put up a huge fight, whereas Navy will not. Kathy is not as agressive/arogant as Stu and will back down to the Oak Hill posse.

As I said before, no matter what McNair is leaving Westfield. It's just a matter of who gets the lucky prize.

In any case, all scenarios support grandfathering. Anyone currently at a high school will remain there until they graduate (or not).

FBI: Operation 'Bot Roast II' Nets Hackers
Investigation Targets 'Botnets,' Which Attack Computer Networks
By JASON RYAN
Nov. 29, 2007— ABC NewsThe FBI has announced action against computer hackers
in their ongoing investigation of individuals who install malicious code and
software on the Internet................

Padreeeee. You should take that as a compliment. She merely thinks that your South Lakes kids are intelligent and computer-savy enough to do something like that (even if it's illegal...). I wonder if the teachers are also encouraging this sort of thing in the (switches to high-pitched sing-songy voice) "New Mediaaaa Ceeenteeer!" They encouraged students to write posts that broke the schools acceptable use policy... What other policies to they agree with ignoring?

Additionally, would you mind not automatically referring to everyone who writes cogent arguments as a "he?" Is that perhaps a little sexism shining through, Padre? Lucky they don't post identifying information on these boards otherwise the feminists would most likely be rioting on your front lawn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2007 09:07AM by HokieFan42.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Option 3 is the most likely scenario...
>
> This is most unfortunate for the Fox Mill folks.
> Fox Mill overwhelmingly expressed their objections
> to this at the ballot box in Nov by voting for
> Christine by a 2:1 margin. Stu the arogant SOB
> couldn't give a damn. He has the rest of his
> precincts locked up 2:1 in his favor with the
> exception of Floris which narrowly voted for
> Christine.
>
> But, Floris will be left out of it (this time)
> becuase they have been jerked around several times
> in the last few years between Oakton, Westfield,
> Chantilly.
>
> Navy will be moving to Oakton instead of Oak Hill
> because Navy was a supporter of Kathy Smith at the
> ballot box in Nov. Apparently they are on board
> with her plans for redistricting.
>
> Oak Hill (aka Kinross) voted overwhelmingly for
> Kathy's opponent in Nov. They are very vocal and
> will put up a huge fight, whereas Navy will not.
> Kathy is not as agressive/arogant as Stu and will
> back down to the Oak Hill posse.
>
> As I said before, no matter what McNair is leaving
> Westfield. It's just a matter of who gets the
> lucky prize.
>
> In any case, all scenarios support grandfathering.
> Anyone currently at a high school will remain
> there until they graduate (or not).

Most of the actual Floris community votes at Frying Pan which voted for Christine (far more than narrowly). But any-ole-how, I too agree this is most likely. It is the one that best supports the suggested criteria of proximity, keeps neighborhoods/schools together, easiest transportation changes/implementation, for the most part leaves Herndon alone (the part from McNair to Herndon is not quite developed). Let's Floris keep their suitcases in the closet a bit longer. However, in this scenario, RCMS feeders become more complex. Also I would leave Madison out of it in Option 3--There is no need.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2007 10:14AM by Cricket.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In any case, all scenarios support grandfathering.
> Anyone currently at a high school will remain
> there until they graduate (or not).

What tells us that?

There is not a single community who is embracing the possibility of being redistricted to South Lakes. As a former student of South Lakes, I understand why. It is the reason why I bought my home in the Oakton district. The thought of my child being forced to attend South Lakes makes me physically ill!

Millions were just spent renovating South Lakes. That money could have been used to build a lab for a Thomas Jefferson West. Thomas Jefferson is crowded, and is very far away for the children on this half of the county, so a TJ West would be VERY welcomed. Alternatively, trade school programs could be offered as they are (at least they were in the late 80s-early 90s) at Marshall. This would generate attendance as some children would prefer to learn a marketable skill than focus on AP or IB classes.

With such a focus on the arts, South Lakes could also be a magnet for the performing arts. This would bolster the reputation of South Lakes and create desire to attend. Depending on the quality of the programs offered, South Lakes could potentially receive national recognition, and could make Reston a hub for the arts -- Especially when metro comes out here. Creating a theater that is metro accessable and developing world class performers will also increase revenues and futher add to property values.

Bottom line -- No one wants to be redistricted for multiple reasons. We should demand a moratorium on redistricting while a COMMUNITY INVOLVED feasibility study is condicted to turn SLHS' extra space into a science and technology magnet, trade school, or performing arts academy.

Thomas,

The county web site: http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/index.htm

Four proposed boundary scenarios have been developed for review at the December 3rd Town meeting at Westfield High School. For each option, current capacity and enrollment projections are provided which assume grandfathering of all students currently attending a particular high school. This means that any boundary change, if approved, would begin with rising 9th graders in the 2008-09 school year.

>word Wrote:
>-------------------------------------------------------
>> In any case, all scenarios support grandfathering.
>> Anyone currently at a high school will remain
>> there until they graduate (or not).

>What tells us that?

The FCPS web site has stated that the redistricting will begin with Freshman starting the 2008-2009 school year. They aren't going to pull kids out of schools where they have established roots. They just want to conduct a sociology experiment with the rising freshman.

FMW Mom - I agree with you, good ideas, those would be preferable to the options presented. My take is the board won't even consider it.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> We should demand a moratorium
> on redistricting while a COMMUNITY INVOLVED
> feasibility study is condicted to turn SLHS' extra
> space into a science and technology magnet, trade
> school, or performing arts academy.

Good luck with that!

Old Timer, for the life of me I can't understand why some people continue to put their heads in the sand and pretend that redistricting is not going to happen. They love to come up with scenarios that are entirely unacceptable to the South Lakes community, but would serve their needs just fine.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> With such a focus on the arts, South Lakes could
> also be a magnet for the performing arts. This
> would bolster the reputation of South Lakes and
> create desire to attend. Depending on the quality
> of the programs offered, South Lakes could
> potentially receive national recognition, and
> could make Reston a hub for the arts -- Especially
> when metro comes out here. Creating a theater
> that is metro accessable and developing world
> class performers will also increase revenues and
> futher add to property values.
>
> Bottom line -- No one wants to be redistricted for
> multiple reasons. We should demand a moratorium
> on redistricting while a COMMUNITY INVOLVED
> feasibility study is condicted to turn SLHS' extra
> space into a science and technology magnet, trade
> school, or performing arts academy.


FCPS already has a special performing arts program at Fairfax HS-- The Fairfax Academy.

HokieFan-

Your stats are wrong-again. Per FCPS, the student breakdown is as follows:

White 50.2%
Hispanic 16%
Black 10.8%
Multiracial 4.9%

Madison has 74% White, 4% Black and 6% Hispanic
Oakton has 67% 5% 7%
South Lakes 46% 20% 16%

FCPS is not going to shift populations and make it more out of balance.

Again, I fault FCPS for being asleep behind the wheel on this one. This imbalance did not happen overnight. We might as well build a wall around Madison, Oakton and Langley with a sign that says "No Blacks or Hispanics welcome". It is really sad hw they have allowed these other schools to slide.

I would guess the hacker is not affiliated with SL-things seem to be going their way and they are certainly better behaved on this board so they have an incentive to keep it up and running.

Lee Parent - I don't think the fact the students are black or hispanic makes the schools "slide". I think it has more to do with income levels of the parents. You're sounding like a racist.

HokieFan42 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Padreeeee. You should take that as a compliment.
> She merely thinks that your South Lakes kids are
> intelligent and computer-savy enough to do
> something like that (even if it's illegal...). I
> wonder if the teachers are also encouraging this
> sort of thing in the (switches to high-pitched
> sing-songy voice) "New Mediaaaa Ceeenteeer!" They
> encouraged students to write posts that broke the
> schools acceptable use policy... What other
> policies to they agree with ignoring?
>
> Additionally, would you mind not automatically
> referring to everyone who writes cogent arguments
> as a "he?" Is that perhaps a little sexism shining
> through, Padre? Lucky they don't post identifying
> information on these boards otherwise the
> feminists would most likely be rioting on your
> front lawn.


Are you on another coffee break, Hokie?

Where to begin.......You cast the first boulder.

I think you might stand for some remedial time in a New Media Center, or equivalent. "What other policies to they agree with ignoring?", being just an example of flawed grammatical fundamentals on your part.

You also suggest the occurrence of "illegal" activity, but you and your cohorts never demonstrated that:

(a) the participation by students -- properly identified as such -- is a violation of the acceptable use policy; your cohorts just screeched and stamped their feet about it;

and I thought they weren't "students", just adults posting as kids. Which is it?

(b) you still haven't addressed the substance of what the kids said -- virtually all of whom, btw, stood up for their school, invited people to visit, and asked why you adults have such a......thing about poor little "diverse" SLHS.

Note that they didn't take or initiate petty little shots at the other schools or the posters from them. But you just tried again to take a dump on them, ya big bully.

Finally, on your remarks re: Pronoun and Gender:

I note, with a mirthless, courtesy chuckle, that you suggest that we be "gender-neutral" when we aren't certain who the commenter is.

That sounds suspiciously like "Neeew Muuusshy Liiiiiberal think", polluting the minds of our young (to mimic you).

Here's a summary of the standard rule in English:

"A speaker may not know or may want to avoid specifying a person's gender. Traditionally, when one wishes to refer to a single definite person androgynously with a pronoun in the third person, the masculine pronoun is used."

If VaDriver is a woman, I'll refer to her with the feminine pronoun. But until I know for certain, I'll stick with the standard rule.

Dissss-missed.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VaDriver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Site is compromised once again...thanks alot
> South
> > Lakes. Really promotes your school!
>
> VaDriver. Get a life.
>
> "A SLHS kid told me there was no Santa and no
> Easter bunny....and SLHS made my taxes too high,
> house price fall, and oil prices skyrocket, and
> made me buy Enron stock, and told me that Putin is
> a good fella.....the Clintons suck too. damn
> socialist democrats...they did this..they hate
> freedom...how am i going to talk to birdlover
> now.....i wonder if she is a she....hey, Back on
> Line...phew.!!


you're an ass.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas,
>
> The county web site:
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/in
> dex.htm
>
> Four proposed boundary scenarios have been
> developed for review at the December 3rd Town
> meeting at Westfield High School. For each option,
> current capacity and enrollment projections are
> provided which assume grandfathering of all
> students currently attending a particular high
> school. This means that any boundary change, if
> approved, would begin with rising 9th graders in
> the 2008-09 school year.

It's confusing because the guidelines say that issue won't be decided until after the boundaries are voted.

I hope its true because that would relieve the anxieties of a substantial number of posters to this forum.

Crossfields is also not affected by any of these four scenarios and that should reduce many posters anxiety also.

Haven't heard much from Navy or Oak Hill folks.

There is no reason to trust the County....no one should forcefully be bused to South Lakes against their will.

As a South Lakes student posted yesterday:
______________________________________________________________________________
SL2010 Wrote:
There are other schools private and public which parents drive their kids everyday rather than having them take the bus to South Lakes which is down the
street. They do this because, (as a close friend of mine said) they think it is a “gangster” school...
_______________________________________________________________________________

So, to compensate for this "flight" of students from the South Lakes district, the County wants to bus kids in.

Do not trust the County. Don't believe its agenda will be limited to the 4 scenerios. If you are unaffected this time...next year you might be.
REMAIN UNITED!

Remember Langley....the County gave 7.1 million tax dollars to Langley so an addition could be added to accomadate its over capacity students.

Rationale (CIP, FCPS Website,DEC,2006, page 18,19)

New Construction - Langley High School enrollment currently exceeds capacity by 182 students and is projected to exceed capacity by 148 students in 2011-12.

Adjacent high schools are operating at or above capacity, thus
boundary adjustments to relieve this overcrowding are not possible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As of September, 2007 Langley High School reports an enrollment of 2083 students. 233 over capacity.

Attend the Dec 3 Meeting....Even if the scenerio give you "a comfort zone". Don't believe the county.

Last week the County dramatically changed the meeting format....now it is throwing out some boundary scenerios....don't believe them.

SL momma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > VaDriver Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Site is compromised once again...thanks alot
> > South
> > > Lakes. Really promotes your school!
> >
> > VaDriver. Get a life.
> >
> > "A SLHS kid told me there was no Santa and no
> > Easter bunny....and SLHS made my taxes too
> high,
> > house price fall, and oil prices skyrocket, and
> > made me buy Enron stock, and told me that Putin
> is
> > a good fella.....the Clintons suck too. damn
> > socialist democrats...they did this..they hate
> > freedom...how am i going to talk to birdlover
> > now.....i wonder if she is a she....hey, Back
> on
> > Line...phew.!!
>
>
> you're an ass.


Just trying to fight the good fight, ma'am, against the avalanche. My wife thinks that I have descended. She hasn't called me an ass yet, though.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HokieFan42 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Padreeeee. You should take that as a
> compliment.
> > She merely thinks that your South Lakes kids
> are
> > intelligent and computer-savy enough to do
> > something like that (even if it's illegal...).
> I
> > wonder if the teachers are also encouraging
> this
> > sort of thing in the (switches to high-pitched
> > sing-songy voice) "New Mediaaaa Ceeenteeer!"
> They
> > encouraged students to write posts that broke
> the
> > schools acceptable use policy... What other
> > policies to they agree with ignoring?
> >
> > Additionally, would you mind not automatically
> > referring to everyone who writes cogent
> arguments
> > as a "he?" Is that perhaps a little sexism
> shining
> > through, Padre? Lucky they don't post
> identifying
> > information on these boards otherwise the
> > feminists would most likely be rioting on your
> > front lawn.
>
>
> Are you on another coffee break, Hokie?
>
> Where to begin.......You cast the first boulder.
>
>
> I think you might stand for some remedial time in
> a New Media Center, or equivalent. "What other
> policies to they agree with ignoring?", being just
> an example of flawed grammatical fundamentals on
> your part.
>
> You also suggest the occurrence of "illegal"
> activity, but you and your cohorts never
> demonstrated that:
>
> (a) the participation by students -- properly
> identified as such -- is a violation of the
> acceptable use policy; your cohorts just screeched
> and stamped their feet about it;
>
> and I thought they weren't "students", just adults
> posting as kids. Which is it?
>
> (b) you still haven't addressed the substance of
> what the kids said -- virtually all of whom, btw,
> stood up for their school, invited people to
> visit, and asked why you adults have such
> a......thing about poor little "diverse" SLHS.
>
> Note that they didn't take or initiate petty
> little shots at the other schools or the posters
> from them. But you just tried again to take a
> dump on them, ya big bully.
>
> Finally, on your remarks re: Pronoun and Gender:
>
>
> I note, with a mirthless, courtesy chuckle, that
> you suggest that we be "gender-neutral" when we
> aren't certain who the commenter is.
>
> That sounds suspiciously like "Neeew Muuusshy
> Liiiiiberal think", polluting the minds of our
> young (to mimic you).
>
> Here's a summary of the standard rule in English:
>
>
> "A speaker may not know or may want to avoid
> specifying a person's gender. Traditionally, when
> one wishes to refer to a single definite person
> androgynously with a pronoun in the third person,
> the masculine pronoun is used."
>
> If VaDriver is a woman, I'll refer to her with the
> feminine pronoun. But until I know for certain,
> I'll stick with the standard rule.
>
> Dissss-missed.



more proof that you're an ass.

>Again, I fault FCPS for being asleep behind the wheel on this one. This >imbalance did not happen overnight. We might as well build a wall around >Madison, Oakton and Langley with a sign that says "No Blacks or Hispanics >welcome". It is really sad hw they have allowed these other schools to slide.

That's a completely ignorant statement. Besides, there shouldn't be racial quotas anywhere. It's insulting to minorities. Someone shouldn't have to wonder if they got into a school/job/etc. based on their merit or the color of their skin. This is not a race issue.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer, for the life of me I can't understand
> why some people continue to put their heads in the
> sand and pretend that redistricting is not going
> to happen. They love to come up with scenarios
> that are entirely unacceptable to the South Lakes
> community, but would serve their needs just fine.

Hmmmm.... why would any of those scenarios be unacceptable to the South Lakes community? It's not like they would entail bussing in felons. What do YOU feel is acceptable? Also, if South Lakes is so swell as it is, why would you want any change at all?

PADRE:

"Are you on another coffee break, Hokie?"
--I already told you I was self-employed. Take an IB class in reading comprehension or come up with some new "insults." It is getting hopelessly repetitive.

You then go on to insult my grammar. An idiot would understand that I meant to write "do," knowing full well "to they agree with" does not make sense. While I have not myself made much fun of people's grammatical mistakes, most of the failings that people have been pointing out are obvious intellectual mistakes, such as using "there" "their" and "they're" wrong and just not understanding the difference. Therefore your claim about my "flawed grammatical fundamentals" is laughable. I typed "t" instead of "d," which is far from being a grammatical fundamental of the English Language. YOU, Padre, are the one that needs to get a life.

Have you ever taken the time to read the acceptable use policy? It includes not using class time visiting websites that have nothing to do with the content of the class. It also includes not posting, instant messaging, or e-mailing anything which does not directly play a part in the class. Apparently it isn't just you that has not read the policy; it's the teachers as well. I graduated from high school in Fairfax County. I saw plenty of people receive detentions for checking e-mail during class or posting in these kinds of message boards.

Additionally, once the students began "promising" that they were, indeed, students; I didn't continue doubting them, did I? Stop putting words in my mouth. Sure, fine, they're students. How about they follow the rules of their school now? They seem like the cream of the crop, but they should NOT receive preferential treatment and time to post on this during school hours.

You say I: "still haven't addressed the substance of what the kids said -- virtually all of whom, btw, stood up for their school, invited people to visit, and asked why you adults have such a..thing about poor little "diverse" SLHS."

I DID address this. Of COURSE they love their school. Most everyone has some sort of school pride, especially when people begin critiquing it! I addressed it by saying that if everything you, the other parents, and students say is correct, and it is so amazing, then why exactly do you want this redistricting so badly? Why not just leave it how it is, or use some of the millions of dollars you received in order to start the programs and classes that you wanted? Who cares if there would only be a few people in the class? That would be even better for the SL students who are in it!

You say, "Finally, on your remarks re: Pronoun and Gender:
I note, with a mirthless, courtesy chuckle, that you suggest that we be "gender-neutral" when we aren't certain who the commenter is."

You then go on to insult my intelligence with a condescending quote about gender pronouns that you probably ripped off of Wikipedia. I majored in English and took an entire class on gender and language. Perhaps you have been out of the educational system too long, but while it is not agreed on, the trend is to use "he or she" or a plural form to avoid sexist language. Now, personally, I am not too offended about it, but with all of the cries of "racism" going around on this board, I couldn't help but point out you were making a lofty assumption.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2007 11:25AM by HokieFan42.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Old Timer, for the life of me I can't
> understand
> > why some people continue to put their heads in
> the
> > sand and pretend that redistricting is not
> going
> > to happen. They love to come up with scenarios
> > that are entirely unacceptable to the South
> Lakes
> > community, but would serve their needs just
> fine.
>
> Hmmmm.... why would any of those scenarios be
> unacceptable to the South Lakes community? It's
> not like they would entail bussing in felons.
> What do YOU feel is acceptable? Also, if South
> Lakes is so swell as it is, why would you want any
> change at all?

How would a magnet help the community students? Not much at all. I think bringing in more community students to the school is the acceptable alternative, as it builds a firm base for the pyramid. BTW, that is exactly what the School Board is proposing.

Why don't you bring up your potentially 'sickened' state at the next public meeting. I'm sure they will consider your visceral reaction to SL when they make their decisions.

FME Mom-

I am glad you came out of the cave you apparently live in to join this discussion. In case you haven't heard of No Child Left Behind (NCLB), it is a law that now dictates how our schools are organized and run. It requires that ALL kids succeed-not just the White kids from the wealthy homes. Principals have to make AYP or they are history. This requires a great deal of creativity and everone is reshuffling their cards and shifting resources.

Our schools need diversity. It is not about quotas-it is about balance. Our public school students should attend school with kids from all walks of life-otherwise we are depriving them of something very important. It is a race issue when one high school has a disproportionate population-I am just suggestinng that we make our high schools more equitable so that everyone benefits.

These parents who feel entitled to one school district or another are positively clueless. There are no guarantees when you buy a house in a particular neighborhood. At any time a shopping center or highway can be built-this is a boundary adjustment. Deal with it.

In these stats:

"Your stats are wrong-again. Per FCPS, the student breakdown is as follows:

White 50.2%
Hispanic 16%
Black 10.8%
Multiracial 4.9%"

The numbers don't add to 100%.

Jay Mathews wrote an article about how the Fordham people reversed the rankings of the AP and IB math classes, which suggested that calculator use was a factor. Professor Klein posted a comment on the Mathews article, clarifying that he ranked the IB SL Math course lower than AP Calculus AB on content, not calculator use. To read this discussion, see:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/27/AR2007112700971.html

SL Momma,

UMMM, Did you really mean to call the Padre an ass? I mean, maybe misguided, maybe even a bit wobbly after last night's fiesta. Missing the pinata and instead, whacking a little bird, might not have been his high point... but an ass?

No, not really.

HokieFan42 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> I graduated from high school in Fairfax County. I
> saw plenty of people receive detentions for
> checking e-mail during class or posting in these
> kinds of message boards.
>

Wow, how old are you? Do you even have kids yet? My kids are 18 and 20 and they were among the first classes in Reston to have computers in their school, and they weren't in the classrooms. In fact, I don't even recall these types of message boards until my oldest was about 8 or 9, which would have been 1995 or so.

"Our public school students should attend school with kids from all walks of life-otherwise we are depriving them of something very important."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... "All walks of life" you say?!? I'll go scout out some homeless alcoholics and pimps if you take care of the child molesters and porn stars. Also, could someone scout out the recent Irish-American, British-American, and Holland-American immigrants?! We don't have anyone with accents! Ohhh the inhumanity of it all!

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In these stats:
>
> "Your stats are wrong-again. Per FCPS, the student
> breakdown is as follows:
>
> White 50.2%
> Hispanic 16%
> Black 10.8%
> Multiracial 4.9%"
>
> The numbers don't add to 100%.

They forgot Asian/Pacific Islander

Old Timer,

Here are the stats I found and posted to Lee Parent, yesterday.
(can't swear they're completely accurate)
__________________________________

Lee Parent,

Fairfax County racial breakdown:

63.0% White
8.8% Black
12.4% Hispanic
15.8% Asian

Oakton H.S racial breakdown

67.0% White
5.0% Black
6.7% Hispanic
17.0% Asian

So, according to your grand vision of balancing racial proportions, you want us to give you a few of our Whites and Asians. Correct?

_____________________________________________________

And, yes, the Asians are often forgotten. Why is that, do you think?

Option 4 makes the most sense. That way all the grass fairies at RFC can stay together through high school.

spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Option 4 makes the most sense. That way all the
> grass fairies at RFC can stay together through
> high school.


Umm, what are grass fairies and what is RFC?

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In these stats:
>
> "Your stats are wrong-again. Per FCPS, the student
> breakdown is as follows:
>
> White 50.2%
> Hispanic 16%
> Black 10.8%
> Multiracial 4.9%"
Asian 18.1%

This is probably right with 18% asian added.
>
> The numbers don't add to 100%.

Lee Parent - Let's get this straight... if an area has too many black or hispanics, you'd like to bus them to another school? Do you think they would like this?

Re AP vs IB math:

This is what Jay Matthews ACTUALLY wrote:

"On June 4, Klein submitted his report on two courses, AP Calculus AB and IB Mathematics SL. Klein's analysis of AP and IB math was more negative and his grades lower than what the experts on AP and IB English, history and biology courses submitted to Fordham. He would have given the AP math course a C-plus and the IB math course a C-minus. The other reviewers thought none of the courses they looked at deserved anything less than a B-minus."

Anyone care to differentiate between a C+ and a C-, AND average in the "scores" of "other reviewers" who gave them nothing less than a B-? Anyone care to look a the actual course curricula and determine the differences for themselves? They would find they're comparing manadrins to oranges. Also, he couldn't compare Math HL (high-level) because it's taught differently; and that is equivalent to calc BC.

Splitting hairs. Someone needs to take some math.

BTW, as someone who works closely with engineers and scientists every day, the bottom line issue re AP vs IB is that neither of them appears to be doing a good enough job of getting the math across, at least according to many critics. If we were to really care about our kids, we'd start a thread on "how do we improve math and reading for ALL students?" and be as passionate about that as we are about whether our kids go to one top-rated school vs. another top-rated school less than four miles away.

HokieFan42 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PADRE:
>
> "Are you on another coffee break, Hokie?"
> --I already told you I was self-employed. Take an
> IB class in reading comprehension or come up with
> some new "insults." It is getting hopelessly
> repetitive.
>
> etc.
>

Your response confirms to me that you can dish, but can't take. If you'll go back, you were the one who initiated the "I'm too busy to post with you laggards" line: "I was too busy working. Yes, some people have to work for a living. I don't get a free lunch like so many of the South Lakes kids. What're you doing online in the middle of the day? "

and you did doubt and dis the "kids": "I'm pretty sure "Stephanie" and "JazzyJeff" are just adults pretending to be children. Which is pretty low, and I would say they deserve the most reprimanding out of everyone."

So you protest too much.

You don't hesitate to take shots at something that offends your sense of orthodoxy (New Media Center...in a sing-songy voice...cripes!!), while defending a different way, if it suits your purpose to try to score points (gender pronouns.)

While I am at it, you never fully addressed your points about:

- how I misled you on the U of Richmond and SLHS' three applicants.. "posting misleading statistics shows your character. Post some good stats, if you've got
> them"... Submissive laid it out for you, and I still don't get your point;
-- your implication that few SLHS students got into VT and then dismissing the fact that 58% were accepted by throwing another challenge back;
- your challenge to show where SLHS kids get accepted "I would like to see the breakdown of colleges that were attended by SL students...."

When we respond with facts and numbers, you say, with all heartfelt sincerity,"your school is amazing. I am humbled by it",,, and then take a new smirky attack line against SLHS.....New Media Center, validated gang charges, etc.

Not good enough. You can't dump and then swim away so easily.

You'll notice that I haven't gotten into it with anyone who says "I like my school and community and don't want to move", where they haven't also tried to slam SLHS and Reston. Go back and look. I'll bet on that.

I said in the earlier days of this discussion that I can understand why people don't want to change or have allegiances, but I don't accept why they keep taking gratituous and unfounded shots at SLHS and Reston.

So when people make smirky comments intended to slime a school, kids or community, I'll keep replying.

I will drop the coffee break line, though, as it is stale.

Clarifier,
You sure got that right. We rank 23rd as a nation in math and science.

Old Timer,
Grass fairies are soccer players. RFC is Reston Footbal (Soccer) Club. I was just trying to get a rise out of all the RFC parents. As a Reston resident, I truly think that Reston should be re-united with Aldrin and Armstrong in the SL pyramid. The folks that live in North Reston that go to Langley should also go to SL, but that obviously won't happen in anyone's lifetime.

spanky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier,
> You sure got that right. We rank 23rd as a nation
> in math and science.
>
> Old Timer,
> Grass fairies are soccer players. RFC is Reston
> Footbal (Soccer) Club. I was just trying to get a
> rise out of all the RFC parents. As a Reston
> resident, I truly think that Reston should be
> re-united with Aldrin and Armstrong in the SL
> pyramid. The folks that live in North Reston that
> go to Langley should also go to SL, but that
> obviously won't happen in anyone's lifetime.

Spanky, why do you take so many gratuitous shots at South Lakes, and then post something sensible like your statement above about Aldrin and Armstrong? Perhaps if you had held firm you could have affected changes that may have resulted in your kids having the school you would have liked at South Lakes.

Sorry that I neglected the Asian American figure-it is 17.4%.

I really don't think massive bussing is required here- some of the boundary lines are a joke. Many of the neighborhoods up for redistricting will actually be closer to their new school. I bet 20% of high school kids go to a school that is physically farther than the closest HS.

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom-
>
> I am glad you came out of the cave you apparently
> live in to join this discussion. In case you
> haven't heard of No Child Left Behind (NCLB), it
> is a law that now dictates how our schools are
> organized and run. It requires that ALL kids
> succeed-not just the White kids from the wealthy
> homes. Principals have to make AYP or they are
> history. This requires a great deal of creativity
> and everone is reshuffling their cards and
> shifting resources.
>
> Our schools need diversity. It is not about
> quotas-it is about balance. Our public school
> students should attend school with kids from all
> walks of life-otherwise we are depriving them of
> something very important. It is a race issue when
> one high school has a disproportionate
> population-I am just suggestinng that we make our
> high schools more equitable so that everyone
> benefits.
>
> These parents who feel entitled to one school
> district or another are positively clueless.
> There are no guarantees when you buy a house in a
> particular neighborhood. At any time a shopping
> center or highway can be built-this is a boundary
> adjustment. Deal with it.

I also think NCLB is crap. At low performing schools, the teacher/student ratio should be smaller for an enriching learning opportunity for ALL students and segregated by ability. Bringing in high performing communities only masks the problem, and does not benefit anyone. Additionally, when all focus is put on bringing certain groups of children up to speed, those kids who are already ahead of the game are forgotten, particularly those who aren't quite AP, but are far beyond remedial.

Just because a community is high performing also doesn't mean it's all white. Fox Mill is actually a very diverse community whose diverse residents choose to demonstrate a strong work ethic to their children and invest themselves in their childen's education.

Finally, when a community has been part of a particular school district for over 20 years in an area that has completed all major development projects, one would assume they would not suddenly change districts.

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Many of the neighborhoods up for redistricting will
> actually be closer to their new school.


What area is that?

?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lee Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Many of the neighborhoods up for redistricting
> will
> > actually be closer to their new school.
>
>
> What area is that?

Try Madison Island or Fox Mill, for starters. How about East Floris?

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I really don't think massive bussing is required
> here- some of the boundary lines are a joke. Many
> of the neighborhoods up for redistricting will
> actually be closer to their new school. I bet 20%
> of high school kids go to a school that is
> physically farther than the closest HS.
____________________________________________________________________________

Massive busing is about to occur if we don't stop the County.

Busing should never be a solution to a socio-economic problem. Lessons learned from the 60's.

NCLB was sponsored by Ted Kennedy, remember Chappaquiddick?...that guy....signed by Bush. So, we can all take credit for the complete flop it has been.


Citizens from Oakton, Westfields, Chantilly and Herndon have not been complaining to the School Board for a change.....except for one parent apparently upset her daughter didn't make the cheerleading squad. We'll give up that family to South Lakes. So...now you have one kid.

The rest of us don't want South Lakes.... Thats it.

Why don't you check out Langley??? They've got an extra couple of hundred over there. Sorry Langley. If they get serious about stealing your kids, I'll help you out too.

Clarifier, my posts about IB and AP math courses are not intended to provide people with justifications to pupil place out of South Lakes. There's no reason why South Lakes cannot offer AP math courses and keep the IB program. Other IB high schools do it. Also, the many well-reasoned and well-written posts by South Lakes students speak well for the effectiveness of the IB program in other subjects.

I leave it to college math departments to tell us whether IB HL Math is equivalent to AP Calculus AB or AP Calculus BC. Their opinions are reflected in the extent to which they allow students to place out of their first and second semester single variable calculus classes, and what scores they will require. For the most part, selective colleges seem to have concluded that HL Math is roughly equivalent to AP Calculus AB. This is not surprising, given that the HL Math allocates far less than a full year to calculus topics.

I find the NCLB bashing positively humorous and yet ironic. It is because of NCLB that you, as a parent, can now view all the data that is now available about these schools. Many of you have cited the school safety numbers and test scores as justification for not changing schools- yet NCLB is bad law.

NCLB is about accountability, transparency, and fairness.

There are 165,000 students that attend FCPS and one million residents. I hate to break it to you-but these changes will benefit the majority of people. Why should 2000-3000 students suffer in an overcrowded school because a few parents are unhappy?

The issue for South Lakes is not about diversity, of course. It is about PARITY. The same opportunities in programming as other schools (achievable with a larger body of students), a better socioeconimic balance -- done without asking incoming students to commute too far.

Do not confuse "minority" with "socioeconomic disparity." Regardless of race, nationality, or creed, being poor makes it very difficult to achieve in school, especially when you make up a large percent there. The fewer poor kids there are in a school, the more resources there are available onsite to help them overcome barriers -- resources other kids take for granted at home. Teachers and counselors have more time to spend with them after hours. Library and technology resources are more available. Etc. Many of these families struggle just to get food on the table and rent paid. Parents work two jobs -- and a great many of the kids work, too, because they HAVE to. Parents, most of whom WANT to, can't participate in school events because they are at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy.

Parity and opportunity. That is what South Lakes is seeking. That is not only an FCPS mission, but also a Fairfax County mission. Fairfax County ITSELF is our community!

Corollary to that is using limited resources as wisely as possible -- and this is why letting 700 spaces go at South Lakes does not make sense, when filling them with students from the local community is a ready and sensible solution to several concerns.

The issue for Westfield is more opportunity for participation and closer relationships with a student body and teachers who know you (achievable with a smaller body of students). Every single Westfield parent I know (and I know dozens) have complained about the overcrowding (except now some have changed their position, only because they might be sent to South Lakes). Why is it that Franklin Farm residents would be OK (according to a survey it conducted) with students leaving Westfield for Chantilly or Oakton, but not Westfield for South Lakes, even if it meant reducing the numbers of high schools their kids attend to two instead of three, and much shorter commutes for many?

There can only be one response: Prejudice (i.e., prejudgement without facts) against South Lakes. Thus, most of the posts here from South Lakes supporters seek to educate their neighbors. Then perhaps Westfield parents who decry overcrowding might be as willing to embrace South Lakes as they do Oakton and Chantilly.

Parity and opportunity for all.

fcps parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Proud SL Senior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FXC Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The filters on the FCPS computers DO have
> > filters
> > > and this site would be blocked. These are not
> > > students from FCPS posting here. They are
> > either
> > > children not in school or parents posing as
> > > children. Either way, this is ridiculous.
> >
> > You are mistaken. This site is NOT blocked...
> > Certain sites (social networking, chat rooms,
> > inappropriate sites such as porn, etc) are
> > filtered. This site is obviously not one of
> them
> > and therefore is not blocked.
>
>
>
> I am not mistaken.
>
> This is a CHAT ROOM and a social networking site
>
> This site is blocked
>
>
>
> why don't you call the school and see for
> yourself.
>
>
> I've lived in Fairfax for 10 years, it never
> ceases to amaze me how many adults here behave as
> though they've never left high school.
>
> seriously, what a bunch of petty, vindictive,
> immature losers.
>
> all you SLers are having a temper tantrum
>
>
> why don't you all grow up.


And if your ignornant ass would listen IT'S NOT BLOCKED! Your a friggin parent who is at home im friggin student who is AT school TYPIN TO YOUR DUMBASS.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier, my posts about IB and AP math courses
> are not intended to provide people with
> justifications to pupil place out of South Lakes.
> There's no reason why South Lakes cannot offer AP
> math courses and keep the IB program. Other IB
> high schools do it. Also, the many well-reasoned
> and well-written posts by South Lakes students
> speak well for the effectiveness of the IB program
> in other subjects.
>

I agree that South Lakes should be able to keep IB and offer AP -- in fact, that's one of the plans. But it does take more students in the core body who are willing or able to take these subjects. (I use the term "OR" because schools that don't require placement testing -- where students can place themselves -- have the best results, and that, thank goodness, is all FCPS schools).

I have been skimming through Mr. Klein's paper on the Fordham study. There is, in fact, a great deal of calculus in the IB program; it's just taught differently. My son's IB math teacher was from Great Britain and he was totally conversant with the approach pre-IB and IB takes, and explained many of the differences to me.

Bottom line: If you take IB Math SL or AP Calc AB, you probably won't get credit in college and will have to take calc BC or some other calc if you need it. If you take IB Math HL or AP Calc BC, you will get credit (for IB, anyway, it's up to 10 credits at most colleges, including UVA, depending on score).

I work with many engineers, many of them professors, and they say they would prefer to see students enter college with Calc AB and then take the college-level calc BC so they can be on track with the programs at the universities. In fact, a great many students have to repeat college calculus anyway to get thoroughly grounded -- if math is necessary for their course of study in any case. The small percentage who don't need to repeat are at the very tip of the eschelon of math anyway, and many of those likely will take all the math high school has to offer by the end of Junior year, then an online or community college course. Those are outliers we can't base a program around.

Thanks, BTW, for a level approach to this discussion.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Try Madison Island or Fox Mill, for starters. How
> about East Floris?


Let's add Crossfield and McNair.

and what in the world is East Floris?

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The issue for South Lakes is not about diversity,
> of course. It is about PARITY. The same
> opportunities in programming as other schools
> (achievable with a larger body of students), a
> better socioeconimic balance -- done without
> asking incoming students to commute too far.

I only somewhat agree. It would be very tough to make all schools equal. However, I support the idea that all FCPS schools should be subject to (very high) standards that need to be met, and that if they are not being met, action needs to be taken.


>
> Do not confuse "minority" with "socioeconomic
> disparity." Regardless of race, nationality, or
> creed, being poor makes it very difficult to
> achieve in school, especially when you make up a
> large percent there. The fewer poor kids there are
> in a school, the more resources there are
> available onsite to help them overcome barriers --
> resources other kids take for granted at home.
> Teachers and counselors have more time to spend
> with them after hours. Library and technology
> resources are more available. Etc. Many of these
> families struggle just to get food on the table
> and rent paid. Parents work two jobs -- and a
> great many of the kids work, too, because they
> HAVE to. Parents, most of whom WANT to, can't
> participate in school events because they are at
> the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy.
>

Good point. Hadn't thought of this. Are you saying that SL currently does not not have enough teachers and counselors available after hours to meet the demand? Is there a shortage of libarary and technology resources at SL? If so, I would agree this problem should be addressed.


> Parity and opportunity. That is what South Lakes
> is seeking. That is not only an FCPS mission, but
> also a Fairfax County mission. Fairfax County
> ITSELF is our community!
>
> Corollary to that is using limited resources as
> wisely as possible -- and this is why letting 700
> spaces go at South Lakes does not make sense, when
> filling them with students from the local
> community is a ready and sensible solution to
> several concerns.
>

I would argue that some amount of inefficiency in use of school space would be supported by the majority of parents in the community in order to preserve their integrity of choice (i.e regarding where to live and the schools that factored into their decision). The question is where does the amount of inefficiency allowed for balance best with parents' desires to maintain existing boundaries. I wish that the school board had more fully investigated this with input from the community, along with the other concerns you expressed above, prior to mandating boundary changes.


> The issue for Westfield is more opportunity for
> participation and closer relationships with a
> student body and teachers who know you (achievable
> with a smaller body of students). Every single
> Westfield parent I know (and I know dozens) have
> complained about the overcrowding (except now some
> have changed their position, only because they
> might be sent to South Lakes). Why is it that
> Franklin Farm residents would be OK (according to
> a survey it conducted) with students leaving
> Westfield for Chantilly or Oakton, but not
> Westfield for South Lakes, even if it meant
> reducing the numbers of high schools their kids
> attend to two instead of three, and much shorter
> commutes for many?

Its very interesting to hear that. Since this was one of the major reasons stated by the school board, I was expecting to hear much more about this from the Westfield/Chantilly community. However, I did not see many comments in this regard expressed at the Nov 12 meeting so I was tending to conclude that perhaps the concern was overblown.


>
> There can only be one response: Prejudice (i.e.,
> prejudgement without facts) against South Lakes.
> Thus, most of the posts here from South Lakes
> supporters seek to educate their neighbors. Then
> perhaps Westfield parents who decry overcrowding
> might be as willing to embrace South Lakes as they
> do Oakton and Chantilly.

I am sorry that the SL community has to defend themselves from some of the offensive posts made here. It has really taken the topic off track in my opinion. I am sure that most people here are familiar with StopRD.org. In fact, you will notice in the recent posting there that the stoprd position has nothing to with a particular school, IB vs. AP, socioeconomic factors, etc. etc.
We are simply upset with the process the school board has followed in implementing this study, e.g. without fully documenting the problems, and examining all alternatives without community input. Until this is done, it is impossible for me to support the school board on this process and I am concerned about how often future boundary changes will be proposed, as well as how they will be handled.











>
> Parity and opportunity for all.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The issue for Westfield is more opportunity for
> participation and closer relationships with a
> student body and teachers who know you (achievable
> with a smaller body of students). Every single
> Westfield parent I know (and I know dozens) have
> complained about the overcrowding (except now some
> have changed their position, only because they
> might be sent to South Lakes). Why is it that
> Franklin Farm residents would be OK (according to
> a survey it conducted) with students leaving
> Westfield for Chantilly or Oakton, but not
> Westfield for South Lakes, even if it meant
> reducing the numbers of high schools their kids
> attend to two instead of three, and much shorter
> commutes for many?
>
> Maybe I am reading this incorrectly, but Franklin Farm residents do not send students to Westfield. They probably care less where Westfield students go and I doubt they advocate Oakton/chantilly over South Lakes, because they have no stake in that discussion.

>>>And, yes, the Asians are often forgotten. Why is that, do you think?<<<

They're too smart and they work too hard. They don't need the help of the educrats.

Cricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > The issue for Westfield is more opportunity
> for
> > participation and closer relationships with a
> > student body and teachers who know you
> (achievable
> > with a smaller body of students). Every single
> > Westfield parent I know (and I know dozens)
> have
> > complained about the overcrowding (except now
> some
> > have changed their position, only because they
> > might be sent to South Lakes). Why is it that
> > Franklin Farm residents would be OK (according
> to
> > a survey it conducted) with students leaving
> > Westfield for Chantilly or Oakton, but not
> > Westfield for South Lakes, even if it meant
> > reducing the numbers of high schools their kids
> > attend to two instead of three, and much
> shorter
> > commutes for many?
> >
> > Maybe I am reading this incorrectly, but
> Franklin Farm residents do not send students to
> Westfield. They probably care less where
> Westfield students go and I doubt they advocate
> Oakton/chantilly over South Lakes, because they
> have no stake in that discussion.

I apologize. It's true that FF residents don't send kids to Westfield, though close neighbors do. The concern was that they didn't want to ADD another high school to the mix, a legitimate issue. My concern is that they object to South Lakes on unmerited grounds. I won't get into the "survey" methodology, which was very flawed, but given the community meetings I went to or heard about, the fact is that many residents are buying into a great deal of misinformation about the school. I was using this as an example of how prejudice can cloud judgement. Remove it, and we have a good, robust, beneficial discussion.

So, which scenario do you like and which one will be chosen?

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/index.htm

My money is on option one. How 'bout the rest of you?

Here is the language from the FF position paper -- residents did, in fact, favor the other schools over South Lakes -- and while this "survey" didn't get into details, the reasons were loud and clear in other documents and meetings:

"The results confirmed that both Franklin Farm
populations strongly endorse the status quo and prefer to remain aligned with their current high
schools. Neither population favors alignment with South Lakes High School. In fact, residents
currently in the Oakton High School district favor Chantilly High School above South Lakes
High School. Residents currently in the Chantilly High School district favor Oakton High School
over South Lakes High School."

It isn't worth arguing over this, though. The point is that anyone who is concerned about South Lakes itself, vs. other issues related to boundary changes, should become knowledgable about the school. That did not happen with the FF community meetings and in its position paper.

I would agree most people did not trek down to SLHS to check it out in person and/or talk to SLHS people.

What they did do is to go to the FCPS website, GreatSchools, and SchoolDigger to take a look at the numbers and ratings. And that's not a rosy picture. (Granted it's not the whole picture.)

mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Until this is done, it is impossible for
> me to support the school board on this process and
> I am concerned about how often future boundary
> changes will be proposed, as well as how they will
> be handled.
>

You make a good point. But there is an immediate need and an immediate opportunity.

Perhaps this process can galvanize Fairfax County residents concerned about the boundary process to engage in a constructive way to make changes for the future. Unfortunately, the SoCo process didn't seem to be enough -- and we even had elections coming up to get the ball front and center. If the process itself is flawed, it should be addressed.

In fact, I have been hearing that the Langley FRL numbers are so tiny (1%?) that it really IS crazy not to include it since some of the kids now going to Herndon could have gone there, allowing both Herndon and South Lakes to reduce their percentages better, and truly addressing imbalances.

Nevertheless, the need for South Lakes is immediate and the means to resolve it is at hand. Flawed, but it's all we have for now.

Lawsuits will not help, either. At this point, they would be seen as vindictive, prejudicial, and an enormous waste of taxpayer money.

Let's instead focus on making changes for the future, if necessary, in a way that the most number of concerned people can be involved, and thus accepting of the outcome.

http://www.fcps.edu/suptapps/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=747

This just might work.

Now: Don't go throwing any, ladies and gentlemen!

:-)

> In fact, I have been hearing that the Langley FRL numbers are so tiny (1%?) that it really IS crazy not to include it since some of the kids now going to Herndon could have gone there, allowing both Herndon and South Lakes to reduce their percentages better, and truly addressing imbalances.

Do you really think that kids from the South Lakes or Herndon want to go to Langley? I doubt they'd appreciate your social engineering skills. From what I understand they love their schools, leave them alone.

Word: Just reporting what I'm hearing. Even on these posts, some anti-SL folks have provided that "solution." I don't support it.

God help us...Are the School Board members on drugs??????????
Clarifier provided a link to the below.....

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE November 29, 2007 FCPS
FCPS Students to Observe Different Shoe Day During National Inclusive Schools Week
Different Shoe Day, a symbolic gesture of accepting and valuing other people and their differences by wearing a different shoe on each foot, will be observed in ten Fairfax County public schools on Friday, December 7, as part of National Inclusive Schools Week, December 3-7.

National Inclusive Schools Week highlights and celebrates the progress of the nation’s schools that provide a supportive and quality education to an increasingly diverse student population, including students with disabilities and those from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds.

This activity will encourage students to learn about each other, foster acceptance and appreciation of differences, and teach students to recognize the similarities between themselves and their fellow students.

Casual Observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stat of the day Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SOL Scores - End of course - Algebra II (2007)
> > comparison
> > School%Passed%Advanced%Proficient%Failed
> > South Lakes High83 28 55 17
> > Madison High 90 26 64 10
> > Herndon High 93 31 62 7
> > Oakton High 92 38 54 8
> > Chantilly High 92 39 53 8
> > Westfield High 90 28 62 10
> >
>
> Thats interesting. I see the percent advanced is
> higher at South Lakes than Madison, and the same
> as Westfield. Not bad, considering that which
> school is it that has the most kids on Free and
> Reduced Lunch? Oh yeah, that would be South
> Lakes.


What is the matter with you 'Casual Observer'? Am I less of a person than someone from Westfield, Herndon, Oakton, Madison, or Chantilly, because I personally get a reduced lunch? Sorry for my parents having a divorce and it leaves my mom with a lower amount of money to live with. The amount of money my mother has really determines who I am? Or is it your ignorant, stereotypical mind that determines who not only I am, but my peers?

SLkid2010....

Since you're a kid....I'm helping you out. You are misreading the post. Casual Observer is your friend. Please hold off posting until you have really digested the content. Good luck.

Techie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HokieFan42 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> > I graduated from high school in Fairfax County.
> I
> > saw plenty of people receive detentions for
> > checking e-mail during class or posting in
> these
> > kinds of message boards.
> >
>
> Wow, how old are you? Do you even have kids yet?
> My kids are 18 and 20 and they were among the
> first classes in Reston to have computers in their
> school, and they weren't in the classrooms. In
> fact, I don't even recall these types of message
> boards until my oldest was about 8 or 9, which
> would have been 1995 or so.

Yes, I was wondering about that myself. E-mail may be ubiquitous now, but it still is fairly new, at least to those of us who got our first computer as adults.

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLkid2010....
>
> Since you're a kid....I'm helping you out. You are
> misreading the post. Casual Observer is your
> friend. Please hold off posting until you have
> really digested the content. Good luck.

Wow, never thought I'd have a chance to say it, but thanks VaDriver. SLkid2010, I was merely trying to point out that South Lakes does pretty well compared to surrounding schools. I love SL and don't fault you at all for being on FRL, and I applaud you for commenting on the forum.

Different Shoe Day??

How stupid.

How about we designate one week as "National Tired of Awareness Weeks" to celebrate the lunacy of it all. The kids could wear hundreds of ribbons pinned to their shirts and tons of different colored bracelets up and down their arms.

Stephen Colbert actually sells an awareness bracelet, which, I do like. It's called the wrist awareness bracelet.

Me being a student at south lakes personally beleive this whole forum just proves the ignorance of parents, it scares me that there are kids are being raised and influenced by these people....shows promise for our rising youth huh?? in other notes this site is not blocked in the fcps filtering system. And another point i would like to make is, the whole oooooooh the AP program is better then IB program is a tool used by concerned parents as a reason why there kids should not move, and if the parents truly beleive one is better it just plain out isn't, they both have college accredited classes and are challenging, if you think its easyer i guess the only way to prove to you its not is when your kid goes to sl, Oh and they will your not changing that, when they come home they,ll be asking for your help because its much more challenging then you think.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Different Shoe Day??
>
> How stupid.
>
> How about we designate one week as "National Tired
> of Awareness Weeks" to celebrate the lunacy of it
> all. The kids could wear hundreds of ribbons
> pinned to their shirts and tons of different
> colored bracelets up and down their arms.
>
> Stephen Colbert actually sells an awareness
> bracelet, which, I do like. It's called the wrist
> awareness bracelet.


Ha ha ha! I thought it was a joke.... I like your idea.

I don't think my age is relevent to this discussion. While my two children are not yet school-aged, my husband and I purposely purchased a townhome taking into account where we wanted our children educated. The idea that just after we've made an investment in a home, the boundaries might switch on us is sickening. Techie, your children don't seem to be affected by the redistricting looking at their ages (18 and 20)... So I'm not sure we should make this about that. I personally have vested interest in the future direction our district takes.
I'm sure you all understand.

P.S. Padre are you going to nitpick "Goose's" faulty grammar as well? I'll let you take this one, it's a goldmine. I just hope you were educated in an IB english class so you can catch all of the errors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2007 04:35PM by HokieFan42.

I posted the link to the Diversity Awareness page knowing some of you would throw shoes, and thus demonstrate your true colors. Too bad some folks are short on ironic humor, or any humor.

Remember, folks, we're really talking little kids and school spirit. I do like the Wrist Awareness Wristband idea,though.

I don't know what "IP" is, but am not sure how that might be relevant.

But I'll leave Goose alone. I got the gist and will let others comment on the substance and the grammar.

Re typos, grammar, etc. -- How about this: Passion makes our fingers fli! Yay for passion.

In this week's Connection:

Editorial -- Nov. 20, 2007
Lame Duck Gap for Schools?
November 21, 2007


You have to wonder why Fairfax County Public Schools would schedule three critical community meetings about redrawing boundary lines in November and December after an election.

More than 1,500 parents turned up at Chantilly High School on Nov. 12, many angry and some behaving badly. The next two meetings are scheduled for Dec. 3 at Westfield High School and Dec. 19 at Oakton High School.

Redrawing school boundaries amounts to one of the most contentious issues in local government. The School Board must engage fully with the public on why, how and the ultimate goals, then proceed with courage and empathy.

But the School Board that votes on exactly where to draw the lines will be a different board in several key positions. Janet Oleszek, Steve Hunt and Cathy Belter will be replaced by Tina Hone, Jim Raney and Liz Bradsher. And some exchanges between current board members and schools facilities staff indicated that the officials are not all on the same page.

Very few things are as dear to parents in Fairfax County as the decisions about where their children will go to school. It’s a decision most parents think they settled when they chose where to buy a house.

That said, there are good reasons to adjust the boundaries between schools, but the county might well be served by a broader discussion about how and why, and a broader boundary study.

We don’t envy any of the parties to this process. But the scheduling of these three meetings before the changing of the board and during the holiday crunch (Thanksgiving is Nov. 22; Hanukkah begins at sundown Dec. 5; Christmas is Dec. 25) seems like a tactical error at best.

Meanwhile parents should commit to participating in the process with civility, learning from their students in some cases, and modeling problem-solving skills for their students as well.

Some parents at the meeting hissed and booed at School Board members Stu Gibson (Hunter Mill) and Kathy Smith (Sully) who favor a boundary change.

One high school junior attending the meeting summed up this sort of behavior:
"I think it really immature for parents to act that way. What types of things are they teaching their kids?"