mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > This process is simply awful. Flawed from
> start
> > to finish.
>
> How would you change it, if you don't mind me
> asking?


I'm not Neen, but here are some of my suggestions for starters - by no means a complete list.

1 - In any decision analysis, you should always include the NO DECISION. This is taught to anyone that has gone through engineering or management classes. This helps to ensure that you don't make the situation worse than the one you are currently in. A shame that a school board can't follow a simple academic principle in this case.

2 - You don't put out 4 options for comment, then suddenly change the options.

3 - If you accept new options from any PTA, you should solicit options from all PTAs.

4 - You identify and weight your criteria before you evaluate options. Not all criteria are equal. Needed more community input into this task.

5 - You don't schedule a process where a decision is made 1 month after incoming board members join - that doesn't allow for adequate transition and familiarity with all facets of the situation.

6 - This is a more complicated situation than when Westfield was built, and the process should reflect that.

7 - Process for the high school adjustment should be delayed and done in conjuncion with the Coppermine school to reduce the possibility of multiple re-alignments in a short period of time. What's the rush to move kids into South Lakes the minute the renovation is completed? Why not take more time and do this better? And in the meantime also get the AP program started there?

There's more but that's it for now...

sos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I would glady vote for more school funds to go to
> help the kids at McNair and Dogwood rather than
> have had the money spent for additions at
> Westfield and Langley that were not needed.

I totally agree that additions were not needed at the other schools; however, the reason that Title I kids at Westfield (McNair) and Oakton (Mosby Woods) do better at those schools is because disadvantaged kids do better when they don't make up a large portion of their school. So throwing more money at Dogwood and McNair won't help and they will be better served in high schools with a larger proportion of middle class kids. That's why it's important to bring more middle class kids into South Lakes and it should have been done before any additions were built elsewhere.

For those who thinks the renovation at SL is being done for this study, please know that it has been in the bonds for 10 years and the planning stages for at least four. Also, the after renovation capacity actually drops by 100 students from pre-renovation capacity.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Let's not forget about the remodel job at South
> Lakes - totally unnecessary

Word, why do you begrudge SL their renovation that has been planned for several years? Did you begrudge Madison theirs or Chantilly theirs or Fairfax HS theirs or Woodson theirs? Be honest.

I heard Hone and Rainey met with the Madison Island parents over the weekend. Have they made themselves available to all of the other parties as well?

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I totally agree that additions were not needed at
> the other schools; however, the reason that Title
> I kids at Westfield (McNair) and Oakton (Mosby
> Woods) do better at those schools is because
> disadvantaged kids do better when they don't make
> up a large portion of their school. So throwing
> more money at Dogwood and McNair won't help and
> they will be better served in high schools with a
> larger proportion of middle class kids. That's
> why it's important to bring more middle class kids
> into South Lakes and it should have been done
> before any additions were built elsewhere.
>

I'm sorry - I don't buy into the argument that you can't improve the performance of kids down the road by providing them a good start in elementary school - with that start including more money and resources. If you don't get a good start, sure there is the possibility you can catch up, but it sure is a lot harder the farther you get down the road.

If that weren't true, then perhaps FCPS should switch things around and turn South Lakes into the year round school since that is when the kids will really start to perform well.

> perhaps FCPS should switch things around and turn South Lakes into the year round school since that is when the kids will really start to perform well.

That's it! A magnet school for the underachievers, year round. Brilliant!

The meeting was straight out of the Soviet Union. I want to know how much money that exercise in sheep control cost. And, I will find out who the hired 'goons' were in the classrooms.

I guess we should be happy nitrous oxide didn't start blowing in from the vents.

And, no, you are not a tall thin man. You better tell Padre's wife that she's married to a woman.

sos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If that weren't true, then perhaps FCPS should
> switch things around and turn South Lakes into the
> year round school since that is when the kids will
> really start to perform well.


Really? I'd be interested in your stats on that.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> disadvantaged kids do better when they don't make
> up a large portion of their school. So throwing
> more money at Dogwood and McNair won't help and
> they will be better served in high schools with a
> larger proportion of middle class kids.

Really? Are our kids teaching them? Yeah, notsomuch. The MOST impact will be made if more money and resources are provided when they are young and impressionable, and EAGER to learn and grow. Not in high school when they have already been shaped by their environment.

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sos Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > If that weren't true, then perhaps FCPS should
> > switch things around and turn South Lakes into
> the
> > year round school since that is when the kids
> will
> > really start to perform well.
>
>
> Really? I'd be interested in your stats on that.



Actually, you'll have to get them from Wii. I was just responding to her message where she said that resources wouldn't help at the elementary school level - that the additional resources (in this case, people's children) would be better at the high school level. I was being a bit facetious, but was just flipflopping the Dogwood/South Lakes schedules to help her out even more.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sos Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I would glady vote for more school funds to go
> to
> > help the kids at McNair and Dogwood rather than
> > have had the money spent for additions at
> > Westfield and Langley that were not needed.
>
> I totally agree that additions were not needed at
> the other schools; however, the reason that Title
> I kids at Westfield (McNair) and Oakton (Mosby
> Woods) do better at those schools is because
> disadvantaged kids do better when they don't make
> up a large portion of their school. So throwing
> more money at Dogwood and McNair won't help and
> they will be better served in high schools with a
> larger proportion of middle class kids. That's
> why it's important to bring more middle class kids
> into South Lakes and it should have been done
> before any additions were built elsewhere.
>
> For those who thinks the renovation at SL is being
> done for this study, please know that it has been
> in the bonds for 10 years and the planning stages
> for at least four. Also, the after renovation
> capacity actually drops by 100 students from
> pre-renovation capacity.


Agreed! The rennovation at South Lakes has nothing to do with increasing current capacity. The upgraded facilities have and will continue to improve our learning environment both educationally and for participating in extracurricular activities. Here are some images that have been posted of our new classrooms and athletic facilities.

School Interior
http://www.fcps.edu/SouthLakesHS/renovation/renovationpics_10-2007.htm

Athletic Facilities
http://www.southlakeslacrosse.com/?page_id=15

Agreed Agreed! What Fairfax County NEEDS to do is redisctrict Jennifer Love Hewitts HUGE ASS! Come ON priorities PEOPLE! Surely some of South Lakes footbal field can be take some of that ASS! am I RIGHT? HELLO? is this thing ON?

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > disadvantaged kids do better when they don't
> make
> > up a large portion of their school. So
> throwing
> > more money at Dogwood and McNair won't help and
> > they will be better served in high schools with
> a
> > larger proportion of middle class kids.
>
> Really? Are our kids teaching them? Yeah,
> notsomuch. The MOST impact will be made if more
> money and resources are provided when they are
> young and impressionable, and EAGER to learn and
> grow. Not in high school when they have already
> been shaped by their environment.



Sorry but research proves out wii's point. Disadvantaged kids do better when less of the whole. Even the Post did an article which is an extrapolation of this idea, but latinos and african americans do better in this area than in lower income areas. There is still an achievement gap - BUT minority children and less advantaged kids do better when intergrated with higher income children. There is a correlation between wealth and achievement.

So if you are wealthy, it is likely your child will do better in school, life, etc than a child of non-wealthy parents, regardless of where they go to school. Of course there are always that outliers, those kids who against all odds, succeed. We applaud them.

Additionally, pooling all less wealthy children in a school doesn't give them access to resources that they need that possibly their parents can't provide. Their parents are busy working two jobs or maybe they are single households. They aren't as focused on their children's education as maybe they are about making the rent and buying clothes and food. They assume the system will do right by them.

So, in a school such as Oakton, these kids get more teacher help in the form of attention in afterschool programs, homework shops; also there are more community members to support the stuendts with buying uniforms and equipment for those that can't afford it.

The teachers can't do it all but should do some; the community can't do it all but should do some. I would love to see focused resources on this problem in Fairfax county - more money for afterschool and tutoring programs, SOL academies like they have at some of the elementary schools. Not just to get the kids to pass the SOLs but to ensure that each is reading and writing on grade level.


You're blaming Restonians because poor children live in Reston and don't do as well on SOLs as wealthier children.



I grew up in a very homogenous, wealthy area. It was boring and culturally vacant. We picked Reston BECAUSE it was diverse in culture, race, and wealth.

Have you ever heard of Caprini Green? It's a famous housing project in chicago. It's quite an interesting story. We've learned from that and other huge public housing projects that you can't put all the underserved in one place. Once again you can extrapolate that to the education environment.

A more diverse population in culture, race, and income level IS a better learning environment.

We can argue all we want about what is best to close the achievement gap, money for resources certainly would help, but since this is nation-wide problem and others with more skill in the field are studying the problem, I would think that we aren't going to figure it out on this board.

The long and short of it is - socio-economic balance is a goal of the redistricting study. It is always a stated goal with each boundary change. This is not news.


The real problem is that you live a couple of miles from South Lakes and very far from Oakton.

Yikes! I think Birdlover has the avian flu. She thinks she was at a meeting last night at a Soviet Gulag, but she was really home typing on her computer while dead drunk from her solo tailgate party. She thinks I'm a woman but I'm really a man. She's delirious. Can anyone help her?

i bet Jennifer Love Hewitts ass, if it was rediscricted to South Lakes, could FART and blow the ass end out of that whole building. Problem solved.

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Have you ever heard of Caprini Green? It's a
> famous housing project in chicago. It's quite an
> interesting story. We've learned from that and
> other huge public housing projects that you can't
> put all the underserved in one place. Once again
> you can extrapolate that to the education
> environment.

No, but I have heard of Cabrini Green in Chicago. One of the great failures of the Great Society. It was named for Mother Cabrini, a Catholic nun, who worked with the poor and underprivilege in Chicago. They warehoused the poor is several high rise towers. It was from this failure that urban planners learned to insist that housing for the low and middle income be scattered among market rate houses.

Maybe everyone that lives in Oakton should go to the Oakton HS.

BTW Aldrin and Armstrong have students within 1 mile of Herndon HS. Herndon HS is the community HS, not South Lakes.

Armstrong and Aldrin are AYP.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> McNair
> > folks will need to speak up if they have
> concerns.
>
> Therein lies their problem. Many of them are
> disadvantaged socio-economically or language-wise
> and they will never have the voice that you or I
> have.


In my assigned room last night, there were about 5 McNair people, all men, all appeared to be an ethnic backround...maybe asian and from India??..I don't really know....but definetly not black or hispanic.

They struggled with their answers because they have not completley learned English. But, they were trying so hard and were very passionate.

They were not respected by the facilatator. She acted annoyed and impatient with them. One man who said he was a father from Fox Mill told the Asian to keep quiet. He was very brusk...almost intimidating. The facilitator never told this man to be respectful. The facilitator rolled her eyes and agreed.. saying these people were taking too much time.

I felt sorry for them. Finally, I started "voting" (whatever that means)with them since I believe the process is so flawed anyway. They smiled knowing what I was doing. They knew I was not from McNair. But, I was ashamed of my County and I was acting on principal. Those McNair Dads have my respect. I hope they know, most of us don't want anyone bused anywhere. And their children are as important as all of ours.

My impression, nothing we did mattered last night. It was dismal.

The unvaranished truth for South Lakes is that there are 468 of the FRL students that research has shown do better if they are no more than 15% of the student body. The norm for FCPS seems to be about 10%. To make these students 10%, South Lakes would need to add 3000 advantaged kids. Even to make 15%, roughly 1600 advantaged kids would need to be added. These numbers are not possible.

South Lakes now is at 33% FRL. Just last year they were at 25% and the to the best of my recollection, the four options do not reduce them to lower than 25%. At 25%, the school population will drift downward yet again.

The only viable and cost-effective solution is to break up this concentation of subsidized housing. Luckily, the surrounding schools show a pattern of declining enrollment so:

Lake Anne to Herndon
Forestville to Herndon
Forest Edge to Langley
Hunters Woods to Oakton
Sunrise Valley to Langley
Terraset to Madison
Dogwood to Westfield

This sadly breaks up the South Lakes community, but FCPS has not promised community schools, only a seat in a school somewhere. Communities do not own their schools, the schools are county-wide resources to be used for the benefit of all the children not just for any specific community.

Sell South Lakes and use the money to endow a scholarship fund for disadvantaged kids since any money going directly to the school system would just be wasted anyway.

Don't I look goooooood as a Troll?

McNair Sympathizer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > mike Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > McNair
> > > folks will need to speak up if they have
> > concerns.
> >
> > Therein lies their problem. Many of them are
> > disadvantaged socio-economically or
> language-wise
> > and they will never have the voice that you or
> I
> > have.
>
>
> In my assigned room last night, there were about 5
> McNair people, all men, all appeared to be an
> ethnic backround...maybe asian and from India??..I
> don't really know....but definetly not black or
> hispanic.
>
> They struggled with their answers because they
> have not completley learned English. But, they
> were trying so hard and were very passionate.
>
> They were not respected by the facilatator. She
> acted annoyed and impatient with them. One man who
> said he was a father from Fox Mill told the Asian
> to keep quiet. He was very brusk...almost
> intimidating. The facilitator never told this man
> to be respectful. The facilitator rolled her eyes
> and agreed.. saying these people were taking too
> much time.
>
> I felt sorry for them. Finally, I started "voting"
> (whatever that means)with them since I believe the
> process is so flawed anyway. They smiled knowing
> what I was doing. They knew I was not from McNair.
> But, I was ashamed of my County and I was acting
> on principal. Those McNair Dads have my respect. I
> hope they know, most of us don't want anyone bused
> anywhere. And their children are as important as
> all of ours.
>
> My impression, nothing we did mattered last night.
> It was dismal.


Tweet, tweet, BirdL

Exodus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair Sympathizer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > mike Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > McNair
> > > > folks will need to speak up if they have
> > > concerns.
> > >
> > > Therein lies their problem. Many of them are
> > > disadvantaged socio-economically or
> > language-wise
> > > and they will never have the voice that you
> or
> > I
> > > have.
> >
> >
> > In my assigned room last night, there were about
> 5
> > McNair people, all men, all appeared to be an
> > ethnic backround...maybe asian and from
> India??..I
> > don't really know....but definetly not black or
> > hispanic.
> >
> > They struggled with their answers because they
> > have not completley learned English. But, they
> > were trying so hard and were very passionate.
> >
> > They were not respected by the facilatator.
> She
> > acted annoyed and impatient with them. One man
> who
> > said he was a father from Fox Mill told the
> Asian
> > to keep quiet. He was very brusk...almost
> > intimidating. The facilitator never told this
> man
> > to be respectful. The facilitator rolled her
> eyes
> > and agreed.. saying these people were taking
> too
> > much time.
> >
> > I felt sorry for them. Finally, I started
> "voting"
> > (whatever that means)with them since I believe
> the
> > process is so flawed anyway. They smiled
> knowing
> > what I was doing. They knew I was not from
> McNair.
> > But, I was ashamed of my County and I was
> acting
> > on principal. Those McNair Dads have my respect.
> I
> > hope they know, most of us don't want anyone
> bused
> > anywhere. And their children are as important
> as
> > all of ours.
> >
> > My impression, nothing we did mattered last
> night.
> > It was dismal.
>
>
> Tweet, tweet, BirdL


My posting was an honest to God heartfelt posting...believe it if you want to or don't...

I truly felt sorry for the McNair people. I know nothing about McNair. The man sitting next to me was talking about the struggles of a "title one" school...I have no idea what title one means...he went on further to say he believes this entire process was corrupt. Again, me voting with them was my way of showing compassion.

But...obviously, this story is lost on you..so forget it...bye.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Let's not forget about the remodel job at South
> > Lakes - totally unnecessary
>
> Word, why do you begrudge SL their renovation that
> has been planned for several years? Did you
> begrudge Madison theirs or Chantilly theirs or
> Fairfax HS theirs or Woodson theirs? Be honest.


Fairfax High School remodel was funded by the City of Fairfax not the county, so you can't count them . . . however, the building is beyond AMAZING . . . . it looks more like a building on a college campus then a high school.

Hope the character (programs, students, teachers) is as fabulous as the building!

That facilitator should be reported, reprimanded and removed from further involvement in the process.

mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > This process is simply awful. Flawed from
> start
> > to finish.
>
> How would you change it, if you don't mind me
> asking?

I have some ideas:
1. complete disclosure on attendance area student counts[base school, GT center, magnet, foreign language immersion, pupil placement], transportation information, capacity information at each site [trailer actual usage, class size: elective and core, facility specs]

2. show schools on a map with defined areas [more info than the dots that appeared this year]

3. allow scenarios to be submitted by the public - use them if they meet certain objective criteria [North Reston doesn't want to go is no excuse - neither is I lobbied for South county so I can't go to the newly renovated and expanded Lake braddock when I live in Barrington].

4. allow the public via a form like standardized tests [fill in the bubble] selecting one [or ranking] multiple scenarios

Do I think staff is reading all comments? No. Are they counting all comments on specific points? No. Would this be more cost effective than throwing out broad scenarios? Yes and multiple meetings could be held at more geographic locations. This is one school division. [Only "Balkanisization" is Falls Church and partially city of Fairfax - Griffin used that term recently about Reston's initiative to become a town.] So, what happens in one area effects the others financilly and resource wise so we all have to be more cognizant of what is occurring. The above suggestions could work like survey monkey [very reasonable cost].

concerned parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe everyone that lives in Oakton should go to
> the Oakton HS.
>
> BTW Aldrin and Armstrong have students within 1
> mile of Herndon HS. Herndon HS is the community
> HS, not South Lakes.
>
> Armstrong and Aldrin are AYP.

While traipsing around Reston one passes Best Buy, Trader Joe's, St thomas, NVHCC, Harris Teeter, Baron Cameron, Town center movies, North Point Giant, pools, tennis,etc. Do people whose kids go to Aldrin not go to the same places as people whose kids go to Forest Edge or Lake Anne?

Armstrong is more "Herndon" than Aldrin - should be used like Crossfield - end of attendance area only because that is where we had land for the school.

concerned parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe everyone that lives in Oakton should go to
> the Oakton HS.
>
> BTW Aldrin and Armstrong have students within 1
> mile of Herndon HS. Herndon HS is the community
> HS, not South Lakes.
Armstrong may have students 1 mile from herndon but I doubt Aldrin does. They are equidistant to both schools. Both of them have RESTON students. Other SLHS students live North of Baron Cameron and manage to go under or over (ooh, scary) the toll road every day. Aldrin and Armstrong aren't twins.

Aldrin students could go to SLHS without an awful commute. It would certainly be less than Fox Mill's or the idiotic option of Oak Hill to Oakton. It is less than 20 minutes - been there done that. Herndon could back fill with part of McNair which is in HERNDON, not RESTON. Many Aldrin students already pupil place at South Lakes as their GT center is Forest Edge and Hughes... They stay with their friends.


> Armstrong and Aldrin are AYP.

Do you mean made "AYP" - adequate yearly progress?

Someone from South Lakes wrote:

"WOW you're really ignorant if you do go to south lakes i'm pretty sure you don't interact with the african american kids because i don't think anyone is using food stamps.
__________

Wake up. 1/3 of the kids at SL qualify for almost every government welfare hand-out available.

RestonUnited Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Aldrin students could go to SLHS without an awful
> commute. It would certainly be less than Fox
> Mill's or the idiotic option of Oak Hill to
> Oakton. It is less than 20 minutes - been there
> done that. Herndon could back fill with part of
> McNair which is in HERNDON, not RESTON. Many
> Aldrin students already pupil place at South Lakes
> as their GT center is Forest Edge and Hughes...
> They stay with their friends.
>

McNair is in Oak Hill, not Herndon not Reston. Not Herndon Not Reston Not Chantilly pretty much defines Oak Hill, home to 5 Elementary schools, 2 Middle schools and NO High Schools. Reston Kids in Reston Schools, Herndon Kids in Herndon Schools, and Oak Hill Kids on the bus to Oakton Schools, Chantilly Schools and .....

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RestonUnited Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Aldrin students could go to SLHS without an
> awful
> > commute. It would certainly be less than Fox
> > Mill's or the idiotic option of Oak Hill to
> > Oakton. It is less than 20 minutes - been
> there
> > done that. Herndon could back fill with part
> of
> > McNair which is in HERNDON, not RESTON. Many
> > Aldrin students already pupil place at South
> Lakes
> > as their GT center is Forest Edge and Hughes...
>
> > They stay with their friends.
> >
>
> McNair is in Oak Hill, not Herndon not Reston.
> Not Herndon Not Reston Not Chantilly pretty much
> defines Oak Hill, home to 5 Elementary schools, 2
> Middle schools and NO High Schools. Reston Kids
> in Reston Schools, Herndon Kids in Herndon
> Schools, and Oak Hill Kids on the bus to Oakton
> Schools, Chantilly Schools and .....


My bad - Oak Hill which used to be called Herndon. Is that like Potomac Falls which just doesn't want to be called Sterling?

Agree with your principal that kids in their, what should we call it, "area" should go to "area" schools. Since Oak Hill doesn't have a high school in their "area," they have to go to nearby schools. That's the problem with living on the outskirts of a boundary - the possibility of boundary changes. Regardless, people should go to their nearest high school when possible.

RestonUnited Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RestonUnited Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Aldrin students could go to SLHS without an
> > awful
> > > commute. It would certainly be less than Fox
> > > Mill's or the idiotic option of Oak Hill to
> > > Oakton. It is less than 20 minutes - been
> > there
> > > done that. Herndon could back fill with part
> > of
> > > McNair which is in HERNDON, not RESTON. Many
> > > Aldrin students already pupil place at South
> > Lakes
> > > as their GT center is Forest Edge and
> Hughes...
> >
> > > They stay with their friends.
> > >
> >
> > McNair is in Oak Hill, not Herndon not Reston.
> > Not Herndon Not Reston Not Chantilly pretty
> much
> > defines Oak Hill, home to 5 Elementary schools,
> 2
> > Middle schools and NO High Schools. Reston
> Kids
> > in Reston Schools, Herndon Kids in Herndon
> > Schools, and Oak Hill Kids on the bus to Oakton
> > Schools, Chantilly Schools and .....
>
>
> My bad - Oak Hill which used to be called Herndon.
> Is that like Potomac Falls which just doesn't
> want to be called Sterling?
>
> Agree with your principal that kids in their, what
> should we call it, "area" should go to "area"
> schools. Since Oak Hill doesn't have a high
> school in their "area," they have to go to nearby
> schools. That's the problem with living on the
> outskirts of a boundary - the possibility of
> boundary changes. Regardless, people should go to
> their nearest high school when possible.


oops, principle

Well said! I remember when I was house hunting almost ten years ago, people kept saying w/ all these 'wealthy' communities, SLH will improve in no time. Guess what happened 10 years later? With the current options, one can easily predict the enrollment from the "wealthy" neighborhood will decline.

Has anyone really check what's the percentage of kids from SL's 'wealthy' area actually *stay* w/ the regular SL program? I mean numbers, not just one or two pop out waving hands.

If the school board truly wants to improve SLH, they should bus the disadvantaged kids around, so that all those single digit socio-economic numbers in the neighboring HSs will look a little better and according to SLH, the low number, i.e. below than 10% is what will really help the title I kids.

But please, don't toss around communities for the school board's failure.

YaYaMaMa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The unvaranished truth for South Lakes is that
> there are 468 of the FRL students that research
> has shown do better if they are no more than 15%
> of the student body. The norm for FCPS seems to
> be about 10%. To make these students 10%, South
> Lakes would need to add 3000 advantaged kids.
> Even to make 15%, roughly 1600 advantaged kids
> would need to be added. These numbers are not
> possible.
>
> South Lakes now is at 33% FRL. Just last year
> they were at 25% and the to the best of my
> recollection, the four options do not reduce them
> to lower than 25%. At 25%, the school population
> will drift downward yet again.
>
> The only viable and cost-effective solution is to
> break up this concentation of subsidized housing.
> Luckily, the surrounding schools show a pattern of
> declining enrollment so:
>
> Lake Anne to Herndon
> Forestville to Herndon
> Forest Edge to Langley
> Hunters Woods to Oakton
> Sunrise Valley to Langley
> Terraset to Madison
> Dogwood to Westfield
>
> This sadly breaks up the South Lakes community,
> but FCPS has not promised community schools, only
> a seat in a school somewhere. Communities do not
> own their schools, the schools are county-wide
> resources to be used for the benefit of all the
> children not just for any specific community.
>
> Sell South Lakes and use the money to endow a
> scholarship fund for disadvantaged kids since any
> money going directly to the school system would
> just be wasted anyway.

This thing is more political by the hour. I know things will turn out different than the scenario's they presented. This whole thing is a false process. They will slice and dice the communities and this is the main thing we asked them not to do. They are planting many "voices" among us in order to say they have support for the scenario they want.
Thank goodness I can afford to avoid this mess. Sorry for those who can't.

Submissive regurgitates the following:

"disadvantaged kids do better when they don't make
up a large portion of their school."

______________________

Another socialist lie.

Socialists/liberals don't really care about disadvantaged kids, not really. If they did, they wouldn't use this ridiculous statement to cover up the truth. Which is... they're not interested in REALLY helping these kids.

The vocal parents from South Lakes are only interested in their own kids who are not disadvantaged. They are interested in the IMAGE of their school. And, ofcourse, there's that little bonus of increased property value...for those of them, like a couple of the school board members, and others, posting here.

Their focus is not the disadvantaged kids. This is pure self-interest.

If the socialists of Fairfax County wanted to teach these kids, they could.

Match School in Boston
200 students 90% Black and Hispanic
Most live in poverty
1/2 of the seniors passed AP Calculus

Hidalgo H.S.
810 all Hispanic
poverty 38%
94% graduation rate
half passed at least 1 AP class with a 3 or better.

Take a look at Richmond Community High and Open High, also in Richmond....

I wish liberals would stop condescending to minorities. But... the reality is ... Liberals need minorities, rotting in poverty and illiteracy, otherwise, they would lose power. And, they need the minorities rotting in poverty to believe that, they, the the nice people, will save them.

When the Post Office added the Oak Hill post office, created a new zip code and told us our address was Oak Hill. We have to pay xtra at the Herndon community center because we are not Herndon residents. We have to pay more at the Reston community center because we are not Reston residents.


RestonUnited Wrote:

> >
> > My bad - Oak Hill which used to be called
> Herndon.
> > Is that like Potomac Falls which just doesn't
> > want to be called Sterling?

For those of you complaining about the meeting last night, they were structured in such a way only because we (and by this I mean all together), are not able to contain ourselves in such a way to positivly contribute quiestons and answers towards the subject of the redistricting itself.
I noticed, and YES I was there last night (before you accuse me of not being there), that many of the subjects issued were not subjects that have been discussed upon the forums. I don't know if this is because they; like many others have noticed they're is much better information and situations that need to be brought to attention or simply because this forum only represents a small majoirty of the public's opinoun (or at least I hope so).
I understand that many people were upset by last nights meeting, but I want you to take a moment to understand they are not required to do this. You voted them into office, NOT I the student of course, and as the school board and representation for Fairfax County schools they could simply redistrict the schools and be done with it. No meetings, no discussions, no nothing. But instead they take interest in the publics opinoun. They care for your views and your insight. They take the time and money to set these meetings up to hear your comments, and your interest in the descision.
So before you start accusing them of only using the time as a mere propoganda, or the meetings as "self interest" remember they already counted the votes. They're already in office.
I will be the first one to admit that I rather enjoyed the meeting last night. YES I could tell by many faces that we did not agree with eachother but everyone for the larger part was civilized in the discussion and although we did not agree with the advantages and disadvantages of each option we respected eachothers opinouns. I even heard many "thank-yous" for the South Lakes students involvement in the redistricting meetings, and at this I was truly pleased. For those who said thank you last night, this comment goes to you, thank you for recognizing our hard work and although you may not agree with the redistricting itself we truly appreciate the fair chance to discuss and express our views upon the matter.

Stephanie - Nice post.

What's you're take on the Free Lunch crowd? South Lakes people don't want any more Free Lunch kids at the school... they say they have enough. From your experience are most of them problem kids? Do you think that kids that get a Free Lunch can be sterotyped into problem-child status? Do you think those coming from families with higher incomes would be a better fit for your school? Do you care?

Stephanie - do you really believe that.

The decisions were made long ago. This so called "process" is being done just to give the impression that the Board is accepting public viewpoints. If they were really listening they would be adding other high schools like Langley into the equation. That was the very first comment I heard three weeks ago at the first meeting. You need to face it, it's a scam.

Birdlover, your Avian Flu is getting worse. Your fever must be spiking. Please get yourself to a hospital, STAT!

SLHS Padre wrote:


"Golly wolly, BirdB, what balderdash? That really wasn't apple cider in your mug, after all.

It was a drama-free (read: kinda boring) event in most cases, but get real...just because your MOB never materialized does not equate to sheep in the pen."

_________________
Balderdash .... that's right up there with golly wolly.

Yes, it was drama fee, because the government used my money to hire people to make sure it was drama free.

And, Padre ..... RE: The Mob. Yeah, too bad they don't live around here.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stephanie - Nice post.
>
> What's you're take on the Free Lunch crowd? South
> Lakes people don't want any more Free Lunch kids
> at the school... they say they have enough. From
> your experience are most of them problem kids? Do
> you think that kids that get a Free Lunch can be
> sterotyped into problem-child status? Do you think
> those coming from families with higher incomes
> would be a better fit for your school? Do you
> care?

Word, I'm curious, what school are you advocating for, or at least what is the FRM percentage at your school? South Lakes is not asking to get rid of any FRM kids in our community. The risk for our school is that when we are surrounded by schools with significantly lower FRM percentages, middle class parents will choose those schools, not ours. When middle class children are not enrolled, it hurts the entire student body, including the FRM kids. There are significantly less resources to go around (e.g., volunteer parents, Booster and PTSA budgets, enough teachers to adequately address the needs of the students who don't have parent support at home). That means significantly less resources for sports, band, orchestra, chorus, robotics teams, etc. This can be demoralizing for the students and puts a much greater burden on the middle class families in the school who do pitch in, and it is hard on them. Some choose to leave, in fact. So the burden of trying to provide adequate resources falls on a few volunteer parents and the burden can be great. I know parents who spend countless hours in the school.

Several years ago, at Hunters Woods, we were trying to plan a fourth-grade field trip to Williamsburg. The trip was almost cancelled because there were so many students who could not afford the trip, not enough resources to cover the cost, and not enough parents to chaperone. Meanwhile, over at Crossfield, the kids were going on a two-day trip to Williamsburg, which included staying overnight at a Hyatt or Marriott hotel and the ratio of parents to students was 1 to 4. The comparison could not have been more stark. The parents at Hunters Woods did not care any less about their children than the parents at Crossfield. Some just didn't have the resources to pay and some could not afford to leave work for a field trip.

As a middle class tax paying parent in the Reston community, I don't think the disparity between our school and those surrounding ours is fair. This County put the public housing here, and they should do their part to make sure that does not negatively impact the middle class families that prop up the community or the low-income students that they stupidly clustered in one area.

If South Lakes has more middle class students, the FRM scores will go up, just as they do for Mosby Woods kids at Oakton. South Lakes' Challenge Index will go up, and so parents coming into the area will not think twice about moving to the school. This will not take away from the surrounding schools, but will benefit the entire community. Remember, we are all part of one large suburb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2007 11:50PM by SLVerity.

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the Post Office added the Oak Hill post
> office, created a new zip code and told us our
> address was Oak Hill. We have to pay xtra at the
> Herndon community center because we are not
> Herndon residents. We have to pay more at the
> Reston community center because we are not Reston
> residents.
>

You pay extra at the Reston Community Center because you're not part of Special Tax District #5, a special county tax just for some Restonians. It's an extra percentage on your personal property tax bill.

But why would you be using the RCC? Isn't it far from you?

Casual,

No, Don't worry. Most of us birds who come from nice families don't get infected. You must be thinking of those poor chickens in China.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Casual,
>
> No, Don't worry. Most of us birds who come from
> nice families don't get infected. You must be
> thinking of those poor chickens in China.

Oh, then maybe you're just hungover from your tailgate party with Jazzy!

Don't want to hear your pity me story... time to man up.

We all knew (or should have) what we're getting into when we bought our homes, save for the sorry people from Fox Mill that face going from a nationally ranked school to one that is ... let's just say not in the same league.

Casual,

Don't be jealous. Fact is, I'm just more fun than you, and Jazzy knew it.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't want to hear your pity me story... time to
> man up.
>
> We all knew (or should have) what we're getting
> into when we bought our homes, save for the sorry
> people from Fox Mill that face going from a
> nationally ranked school to one that is ... let's
> just say not in the same league.

I can tell you are a real stand up guy/gal. How come you didn't answer my question? What's the FRM number at your school?

You and I bought our homes in Fairfax County. You are part of a large school system. You are no more insulated than I, but at least I'm not an a$#.

If Oakton is so great, why did its SAT scores plummet last year? South Lakes SAT scores had the most gains in the County. Sounds like Oakton is headed toward mediocrity, while South Lakes is on the rise. Wait until the rankings are in based on class of 2007 scores.

Stephanie,


Your paragraphs are too long.

When you are finished with one cohesive group of sentences, stop.

New paragraph.

Wii,
You think parents would have been even more vocal then than now? I disagree. It is very hard to believe that parents then would have been more vocal than the community is now. Over two thousand people attended each community meeting! And they were plenty vocal!

No one cares about the beautiful facility or the new Principal. Butler hasn't had enough time to prove that he is really going to change South Lakes. If people cared that much about a facility they wouldn't send their students to TJ or Woodson. Facilities just don't matter that much. Students and programs do. Parents care about AP, and they care about who their children go to school with. You may not like that reality, but it is the reality. A school that is 33% poor, or even 25% poor, and an IB program, just isn't going to attract high performing kids who are in a school they are happy with, with a much lower percentage of poor and disruptive students, and a strong AP program, even if their child won't make the football team.

Before you go nuts, I am NOT saying that all poor students are disruptive. Of course they aren't. But parents can read the behavior stats from those schools and they do not want to place their children in those schools because they fear those disruptive students will disrupt their child's education. That's their perception and thus their reality. You can scream 'but they're wrong' until the cows come home, but you still have to deal with them and their reality. The reality for South Lakes is that many parents won't send their children to the school until there is a good reason to do so. Even if you get everything you want, Floris, fox Mill, no McNair, the MMR center moved, or Fox Mill and Crossfield, you still won't get those parents to send their children to the school until you give them a reason to do so. Their has to be a lure, a reason for them to go, or they will pupil place elsewhere or go to private schools.

I'm not saying it can't be done, that the SL reputation can't be turned around, but it won't happen in 9 months. It will take many years. Something should have been put in place to attract people to South Lakes. Of course if that had been done years ago, we wouldn't be having this discussion today.

>>>Gibson violating the students/parent right of privacy must be investigated fully<<<

It was investigated fully by the state board of education and he was found to be guilty.

>>>my room was very unified on the idea of a magnet.<<<

My room too, many, many, votes for a magnet. Even the South Lakes kids voted for it! We also had lots of votes for none of the options but the most supported option was option #3.

> I would glady vote for more school funds to go to help the kids at McNair and Dogwood rather than have had the money spent for additions at Westfield and Langley that were not needed.

Let's not forget about the remodel job at South Lakes - totally unnecessary<<<

I agree that additions at Westfield and Langley were unnecessary and that we should have put that money into Dogwood and McNair. Better teaching programs, and new books to go along with them, could have been purchased for many low income schools with that wasted money.

South Lakes did need some remodeling. Doors on the classrooms were needed because it was built as an 'open school' without interior walls or doors. Another silly experiment that was wrong.

Lee Parent,
Hone and Raney also met with South Lakes PTA officers. Raney immediately caved and now supports redistricting, and not any other options that the community has suggested. Hone will go along with it too.

"As England emerged from World War Two, and as the Labour Party came to power, the State began to intervene more forcible into the lives of the citizen. And so, England began to build a vast government-subsidized entity known as the Welfare State. No one was immune from paying the costs of the Welfare State. Individualism and collectivism were joined together."

Orwell had already seen what this union had accomplished in Germany, Italy, Spain and the Soviet Union.

>>>FCPS should switch things around and turn South Lakes into the year round school since that is when the kids will really start to perform well.<<<<

Excellent idea! Why aren't these children who are not up to grade level going to school year round?

>>>My impression, nothing we did mattered last night. It was dismal.<<<

I would have to agree. Mr. Tistadt all but said that. He said they wouldn't choose any of the options, everything is still on the table. So why bother to ask us?

Every room seemed to have different rules. Our room was not allowed to make any general comments, but lots of other rooms did. We never heard about the new option #5, but lots of other rooms did. So we couldn't comment on that option at all. But we did get to vote on each comment that was made by anyone. The vast majority, even the South Lakes students, wanted a magnet program and everyone agreed that Langley and ALL of Madison should have been considered.

>>>They are planting many "voices" among us in order to say they have support for the scenario they want.
Thank goodness I can afford to avoid this mess. Sorry for those who can't.<<<

I think many of us feel that way. They're just using us and will do what they want. They always do.

>>>This County put the public housing here, and they should do their part to make sure that does not negatively impact the middle class families that prop up the community or the low-income students that they stupidly clustered in one area.<<<

They are clustered there because the people of Reston want them there! If they didn't want them, they wouldn't continue to elect people who continue to put more and more subsidized housing in Reston. The people of Reston choose that every time they vote. You cannot blame that on anyone but yourselves. Nor can you expect the rest of the county to clean up any messes made by your choices.

He's still claiming innocence! The state is wrong, according to Stu. Hahahaha.............

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2007/dec/04/school-board-battle-rages/

Stu says he didn't violate the law, the state disagrees. Stu says they are wrong. UUUMMMMMM........I don't think he gets to decide if he violated the law. The state decides and they have ruled against him. He violated the law.

So what happens at the next meeting? A final scenario or several? Is it decided at that meeting?

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Incidentally, there was not one McNair parent in
> my group or in that of many of my SL peers. Who
> is speaking for them in this? From whats been
> reported from the attendees I know, the few McNair
> parents who attended last night don't want to
> leave Westfield. It's funny, I have read very few
> other Westfield, Oakton, or Chantilly parents
> complain about the unfairness of sending McNair to
> South Lakes and Herndon. Is it because they are
> also just looking out for their own best
> interests, just like South Lakes parents are being
> accused? And because they know that McNair has a
> small voice? Think about it.


There were three McNair fathers who came late into our room on Monday night. English was clearly not their first language. They were concerned about a drop in their property values from being shifted to South Lakes from Westfield!

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Incidentally, there was not one McNair parent in
> my group or in that of many of my SL peers. Who
> is speaking for them in this? From whats been
> reported from the attendees I know, the few McNair
> parents who attended last night don't want to
> leave Westfield. It's funny, I have read very few
> other Westfield, Oakton, or Chantilly parents
> complain about the unfairness of sending McNair to
> South Lakes and Herndon. Is it because they are
> also just looking out for their own best
> interests, just like South Lakes parents are being
> accused? And because they know that McNair has a
> small voice? Think about it.


There were three McNair fathers who came into our room late. English was clearly not their first language. One was concerned about a drop in his property value from being shifted to South Lakes from Westfield!

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Word, I'm curious, what school are you advocating
> for, or at least what is the FRM percentage at
> your school?

Oakton has 8.5%.

> South Lakes is not asking to get rid
> of any FRM kids in our community.

Perhaps you should. It would solve most of the problems.

> The risk for
> our school is that when we are surrounded by
> schools with significantly lower FRM percentages,
> middle class parents will choose those schools,
> not ours.

That is EXACTLY why I moved out of Reston, where I lived (off of Glade Drive, a mile away from Stonegate) since 1984, to Fox Mill Estates when I bought my home ten years ago.

> As a middle class tax paying parent in the Reston
> community, I don't think the disparity between our
> school and those surrounding ours is fair.

But you chose to buy a house there. The statistics have not changed much in the twenty three years I have lived in this area. I do have to say that the crime has improved a bit thanks to the influx of businesses. You don't hear of someone getting raped on the paths every week anymore, and I can actually drive through Stonegate without the imminent fear of being shot. Still wouldn't walk through there though.

> This County put the public housing here, and they
> should do their part to make sure that does not
> negatively impact the middle class families that
> prop up the community or the low-income students
> that they stupidly clustered in one area..

Agreed! That's why I feel they should reduce the governmnet projects by 50% and relocate the other 50% elsewhere. Reston and Herndon has become the Mecca for lazy, underachieving welfare recipients and illegal aliens. It needs to stop!

> If South Lakes has more middle class students, the
> FRM scores will go up, just as they do for Mosby
> Woods kids at Oakton. South Lakes' Challenge Index
> will go up, and so parents coming into the area
> will not think twice about moving to the school.
> This will not take away from the surrounding
> schools, but will benefit the entire community.
> Remember, we are all part of one large suburb.

And if 50% of the projects were removed, this would make South Lakes, and Reston as a whole, more attractive.

RestonUnited Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But why would you be using the RCC? Isn't it far
> from you?

Reston has a lot of excellent amenities! I enjoy the community center, and especially the paths and nature center. I rent canoes at Lake Anne, go to the library, and my child was born at Reston Hospital. Reston isn't far, but neither is Oakton. From Fox Mill to South Lakes, it takes about 10 minutes. However, it only takes about 15 to get to Oakton. What's five minutes? The actual distance might be shorter, but the traffic and lights are much greater.

RD-RIP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There were three McNair fathers who came into our
> room late. English was clearly not their first
> language. One was concerned about a drop in his
> property value from being shifted to South Lakes
> from Westfield!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this RD-RIP's reporting is correct, then, another group, McNair, is understanding the negative affect redistricting will have on home values! Of course, no one apparently told them they weren't allowed to talk about this subject at the fraudlent "town meetings"!!

Our property values will plummet and Stu Gibson/Dale's Reston property value will soar!!! As will all property owners in the current South Lakes District.

To simplify for you South Lakes activists,..over the years any house you bought was at a reduced price since you were in the South Lakes pyramid. Even if you bought a $800,000 house.......do you all understand....following??? ..stay with me......that same $800,000 home in my area would have been maybe $900,000.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>my room was very unified on the idea of a
> magnet.<<<
>
> My room too, many, many, votes for a magnet. Even
> the South Lakes kids voted for it! We also had
> lots of votes for none of the options but the most
> supported option was option #3.

Sounds just like my room. Unless we WERE in the same room.... Hmmm....

From conversations I've had with others, that is the way MOST people feel (about the magnet and none of the options.)

This doesn't really tell you anything you probably don't already know, but maybe you are interested.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=91248&paper=0&cat=109



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2007 11:17AM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

Shall we all consider that our housing prices are going down at this time? Are we to blame the "housing crisis" on the redistricting of Ffx COUNTY students? Why do people move anywhere? Because of the schools and proximity to work. Seems to me a large number of large (AKA: EXPENSIVE) homes built in RESTON due to the proximity to the business center known as Reston, also known as "Silicon East" due to the number of business who actually WANT to set up business here.

Ah, but I digress. The average home prices in Reston have decreased just like in everyone else's neighborhoods. Please don't blame it on the redistricting.

AND please open your eyes to the fact that South Lakes is a FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL, just like all of the others in consideration for change. We all pay COUNTY taxes to support COUNTY schools, whether it is underachieving or superachieving. With more kids in your school, you get a commensurate dollar figure from the County to support the population. South Lakes is not getting the money to support the classes they need to keep up with You Jones' out here.

And, even with those statistics, each kid I have known who has gone to South Lakes has gone on to an EXCELLENT college and university, just like your graduates. Don't know how that has happened.

Oh, in my room magnets were not discussed at all. Does anyone out there know of a magnet HS in Ffx Cty? A magnet is not logical or sensical addition to this situation at this time. The main points I heard from parents from other schools was "leave us alone". I would like to say that this should not be anyone's response. I believe that the word "teamwork" is in very few vocabularies out there as WE strive to make the Ffx COUNTY TEAM of schools a better place. Why do we have to have one that is underachieving? To make the other schools FEEL better about themselves? Pshaw.

Sarcasm aside, the pettiness of the idea of a year-round HS is idiotic.

Please remember that there WILL be a redistricting. The School Board was elected to make a decision on this school year calendar. I hope, as do many in this group, that when the decision is made, the squabbling will quickly dissipate and the kids & parents involved will work to make the situation be successful.

- IMPEACH STU - he is guilty, the FFC can not let him continue in this it is a conflict of interest

- stay the course there ARE NO ADVANTAGES for a redistricting. NONE SLHS PTSA here that.

- Advantaged kids should be left where they are. NOT moved to the 800 and something rated school in America.

- FCSB changing the rules half way through the game. This will certainly lead to a lawsuit. Everyone needs to stand behind STOPRD.ORG

- Get the FFX county supervisors involved

- we need to limit the power of the FCSB in the future.

- Reality of the meeting is it was a fake! Nothing was accomplished.

- Those of you do-gooders that want to pupil place at SLHS go ahead and you can save us all. Get a petition going for those thatwnat to go, maybe enough will sign up and we can drop this issue. NOT!

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RD-RIP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > There were three McNair fathers who came into
> our
> > room late. English was clearly not their first
> > language. One was concerned about a drop in
> his
> > property value from being shifted to South
> Lakes
> > from Westfield!
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------
>
> If this RD-RIP's reporting is correct, then,
> another group, McNair, is understanding the
> negative affect redistricting will have on home
> values! Of course, no one apparently told them
> they weren't allowed to talk about this subject at
> the fraudlent "town meetings"!!
>
> Our property values will plummet and Stu
> Gibson/Dale's Reston property value will soar!!!
> As will all property owners in the current South
> Lakes District.
>
> To simplify for you South Lakes activists,..over
> the years any house you bought was at a reduced
> price since you were in the South Lakes pyramid.
> Even if you bought a $800,000 house.......do you
> all understand....following??? ..stay with
> me......that same $800,000 home in my area would
> have been maybe $900,000.

probably not...you dont have lakes to live on.

"Oh, in my room magnets were not discussed at all. Does anyone out there know of a magnet HS in Ffx Cty? "

Seriously?? What would you call TJ? I can only assume that's isn't what you meant.

"A magnet is not logical or sensical addition to this situation at this time."

I'll refrain from asking what sensical is, but I take your word for it that a magnet isn't one. At any rate, if it got kids in the school, without taking kids who don't want to go, would it really be so bad? I understand that one of the problems with a small school is that you don't have enough kids to offer German 5 and such. If the magnet were somewhat fluid, and magnet kids took some courses with base kids and vice versa, that seems like it would satisfy the courses issue. Anyway, it has always seemed high horse of SL parents to say, no demand, that a magnet isn't acceptable. Guess what? Changing school isn't acceptable to a lot of folks either.

"The main points I heard from parents from other schools was 'leave us alone'. I would like to say that this should not be anyone's response. I believe that the word 'teamwork' is in very few vocabularies out there as WE strive to make the Ffx COUNTY TEAM of schools a better place. Why do we have to have one that is underachieving? To make the other schools FEEL better about themselves? Pshaw."

How about looking at all area schools, including elementary schools, and focus your teamwork on those also. And I can't believe anyone thinks that having an underachieving school makes other schools feel better about themselves. No, we sort of feel bad for you, if anything. I feel bad for you if your school isn't all it should be. There are many schools that aren't all they should be. That doesn't necessarily mean we are eager to have our kids attend.

I know families whose kids go to Hughes and SL. They are just like my family (I guess I don't know a lot of the 33% folks, probably my self-important yuppiness). Anyway, I know that they feel okay with their kids at SL, and that gives me comfort and some consolation that if my younger kids go there, no catastrophe in the long run. BUT, just because something won't be a catastrophe doesn't mean it's what we want, not to mention the bull&^%& of this process. SL folks on here have generally been sane, although somewhat myopic in seeing our side of things.

RD-RIP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Incidentally, there was not one McNair parent
> in
> > my group or in that of many of my SL peers.
> Who
> > is speaking for them in this? From whats been
> > reported from the attendees I know, the few
> McNair
> > parents who attended last night don't want to
> > leave Westfield. It's funny, I have read very
> few
> > other Westfield, Oakton, or Chantilly parents
> > complain about the unfairness of sending McNair
> to
> > South Lakes and Herndon. Is it because they
> are
> > also just looking out for their own best
> > interests, just like South Lakes parents are
> being
> > accused? And because they know that McNair has
> a
> > small voice? Think about it.
>
>
> There were three McNair fathers who came into our
> room late. English was clearly not their first
> language. One was concerned about a drop in his
> property value from being shifted to South Lakes
> from Westfield!

I'm going to make another generalized statement. A large population of the people living in McNair Farms are relatively new immigrants from Asia, India, and Pakistan. I think a lot of the test scores at McNair stem from the children of said immigrants learning English, and getting up to speed with their American peers. Additionally, their culture as a whole is NOT a lazy one and studies are important, so thier individual scores will improve quickly, and their children are generally well behaved.

Their concern over dropping property values is a concern, as it is for everyone who is being considered. McNair may be a title 1 school, but the neighborhood is safe and clean. Can't say that for the Dogwood community except for the poor suckers who bought in Stratton Woods. SPEAKING of Stratton Woods... that is a fine example of how the school district and location impacts property values. The same house in Fox Mill is a good $50K more than in Stratton Woods.

(Example: 12/05 sale for $546,000 in SW with 1,967 above ground sq. ft. Meanwhile, there was a 12/05 sale in Fox Mill for a house with only 1,791 above ground square feet sold for $592,000. Smaller than Stratton Woods and $46K more.)

A magnet defeats the "purpose" of the entire redistricting. A magnet would not reduce over crowding in other schools and would not provide South Lakes with the students it needs to be able to offer more upper level courses and electives. Magnet students would come from all over (not just the overcrowded schools) and would participate in magnet classes (not with the regular students of SL). I know you don't mind your school being over crowded and you don't want to move, but a magnet will never happen becuase there would be no justification for it. I'm not saying that redisctricting is an absolute cure for all problems but I'm looking at the situation logically, the school board would never agree to this so why even bother?

don't give up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> - Advantaged kids should be left where they are.
> NOT moved to the 800 and something rated school in
> America.

You should at least get your facts straight. The Newsweek ranking lists the top 5% of schools in the US, or the top 1,350 schools in the Country, out of 27,000 schools. South Lakes is actually ranked near the top 3%. We are talking about a difference between the top 1% and the top 3%. Do the math.

kjlsdfkdfsl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A magnet defeats the "purpose" of the entire
> redistricting. A magnet would not reduce over
> crowding in other schools

Probably not, but the overcrowding will take care of itself in a few years and people from those overcrowded schools don't mind it, at least not nearly so much as they mind changing.

and would not provide
> South Lakes with the students it needs to be able
> to offer more upper level courses and electives.

See my earlier post, a magnet might be able to accomodate that.

but a magnet
> will never happen becuase there would be no
> justification for it.

Except that it wouldn't have the greater portion of 2000 parents up in arms. Most of the attendees at the meeting weren't from SL, and the justification is that a magnet gets students to a school willingly.

I'm not saying that
> redisctricting is an absolute cure for all
> problems but I'm looking at the situation
> logically, the school board would never agree to
> this so why even bother?

Sadly, I have to agree with you there, it's probably futile. That still doesn't mean it's not a viable solution.

On a different note, what's with the culinary program at SL? Does anyone know how that works? I know there are other schools that have academies, and apparently this isn't like that. How about putting one of these in SL? I mean a good one.

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OCTE/index.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2007 12:45PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

YaYaMaMa Wrote:
> ... if they are no more than 15%
> of the student body. The norm for FCPS seems to
> be about 10%. To make these students 10%, South
> Lakes would need to add 3000 advantaged kids.
> Even to make 15%, roughly 1600 advantaged kids
> would need to be added. These numbers are not
> possible. ...
>
>
--
Many posters on this forum seem not to know much about the rest of the County. County-wide, FRM is about 20%. South Lakes may have the "pocket of poverty" for the northern and western portions of Fairfax, but has no where near the poverty rates seen inside the beltway and along the Route One Corridor.

Let's compare apples to apples.
- Charts from last year show South Lakes had 1,496 students, Stuart had 1,521.
- Both have IB.
- The list of IB courses offered is pretty comparable and Stuart offered only one single AP course, in government.
- Stuart just finished its major renovation.
So far, these two schools, on paper, are nearly identical.

Now look up their demographics on the FCPS web site. Using the data most recently posted on their school profiles,
- South Lakes had 33% FRM and Stuart had 51%.
- South Lakes had 36.7% Black and Hispanic students and Stuart had 51.2%.
- South Lakes had 16.4% Limited English students and Stuart had 36.4%.
- South Lakes had 17.2% mobility and Stuart had 24.3%

Those of you who attribute a school's poor academic record to the racial, ethnic, and socio-econmic composition of its students must be willing to bet Stuart has about 50% more SOL failures and more violence.

Surprise! Look at the security data and the 2007 test results on these same school profiles.
- South Lakes had fifteen "serious incidents" and seven weapons cases, Stuart had only four "serious incidents" and two weapons cases.
- South Lakes has from "about the same" to "much higher" failure rates on the SOL exams when compared to Stuart. Examples:
--- On the geometry SOL South Lakes had a 20.4% failure rate ; Stuart had only an 11% failure rate.
--- On the Chemistry SOL South Lakes had a 32.5% failure rate ; Stuart had only a 14.2% failure rate.
- With 232 Limited English students, 7.1% of South Lakes students failed the English writing test. With 535 Limited English students, more than TWICE AS MANY, only 6.3% of Stuart students failed this same test.

Now take a look at "high end" students with diverse backgrounds:
- Even with a significantly higher percentage of FRM students, Stuart still has slightly higher IB participation rates for Blacks, for Hispanics, and overall.
- The two schools had identical average SAT scores, 941, for FRM students.
- For Limited English students, the South Lakes SAT average was 811; the Stuart average was 827.
- For students with disabilities, the SAT South Lakes average was 878; the Stuart average was 916.

Are there any posters here from Stuart who can tell the rest of us what you are doing so well? Then perhaps, instead of trying so hard to reduce the South Lakes percentage of "diversity," we could instead learn how all our schools can do better with what we've got.

FME Mom Wrote:

>
> (Example: 12/05 sale for $546,000 in SW with
> 1,967 above ground sq. ft. Meanwhile, there was a
> 12/05 sale in Fox Mill for a house with only 1,791
> above ground square feet sold for $592,000.
> Smaller than Stratton Woods and $46K more.)

You have no idea what improvements had been made to the interiors. A new kitchen can bump a price by 20%. Not a good example.

Do you think that the immigrants in Reston are lazy? Our school has kids from 70 different countries. Which group is 'lazy' BTW. Are you going to tell us?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YaYaMaMa Wrote:
> > ... if they are no more than 15%
> > of the student body. The norm for FCPS seems
> to
> > be about 10%. To make these students 10%,
> South
> > Lakes would need to add 3000 advantaged kids.
> > Even to make 15%, roughly 1600 advantaged kids
> > would need to be added. These numbers are not
> > possible. ...
> >
> >
> --
> Many posters on this forum seem not to know much
> about the rest of the County. County-wide, FRM is
> about 20%. South Lakes may have the "pocket of
> poverty" for the northern and western portions of
> Fairfax, but has no where near the poverty rates
> seen inside the beltway and along the Route One
> Corridor.
>
> Let's compare apples to apples.
> - Charts from last year show South Lakes had
> 1,496 students, Stuart had 1,521.
> - Both have IB.
> - The list of IB courses offered is pretty
> comparable and Stuart offered only one single AP
> course, in government.
> - Stuart just finished its major renovation.
> So far, these two schools, on paper, are nearly
> identical.
>
> Now look up their demographics on the FCPS web
> site. Using the data most recently posted on their
> school profiles,
> - South Lakes had 33% FRM and Stuart had 51%.
> - South Lakes had 36.7% Black and Hispanic
> students and Stuart had 51.2%.
> - South Lakes had 16.4% Limited English students
> and Stuart had 36.4%.
> - South Lakes had 17.2% mobility and Stuart had
> 24.3%
>
> Those of you who attribute a school's poor
> academic record to the racial, ethnic, and
> socio-econmic composition of its students must be
> willing to bet Stuart has about 50% more SOL
> failures and more violence.
>
> Surprise! Look at the security data and the 2007
> test results on these same school profiles.
> - South Lakes had fifteen "serious incidents" and
> seven weapons cases, Stuart had only four "serious
> incidents" and two weapons cases.
> - South Lakes has from "about the same" to "much
> higher" failure rates on the SOL exams when
> compared to Stuart. Examples:
> --- On the geometry SOL South Lakes had a 20.4%
> failure rate ; Stuart had only an 11% failure
> rate.
> --- On the Chemistry SOL South Lakes had a 32.5%
> failure rate ; Stuart had only a 14.2% failure
> rate.
> - With 232 Limited English students, 7.1% of
> South Lakes students failed the English writing
> test. With 535 Limited English students, more than
> TWICE AS MANY, only 6.3% of Stuart students failed
> this same test.
>
> Now take a look at "high end" students with
> diverse backgrounds:
> - Even with a significantly higher percentage of
> FRM students, Stuart still has slightly higher IB
> participation rates for Blacks, for Hispanics, and
> overall.
> - The two schools had identical average SAT
> scores, 941, for FRM students.
> - For Limited English students, the South Lakes
> SAT average was 811; the Stuart average was 827.
> - For students with disabilities, the SAT South
> Lakes average was 878; the Stuart average was
> 916.
>
> Are there any posters here from Stuart who can
> tell the rest of us what you are doing so well?
> Then perhaps, instead of trying so hard to reduce
> the South Lakes percentage of "diversity," we
> could instead learn how all our schools can do
> better with what we've got.


THAT was an awesome post! The beauty of it was that there was no "Leave my kids alone...leave us where we are" stuff in it. Instead, it was just some simple, easy to understand facts.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
... schools can do
> better with what we've got.

In years past which led to Stuart's successes, they had an excellent principal who was very much responsible for those successes. Meanwhile, South Lakes had an appointed principal who was an absolute disaster. Despite the parents best efforts, she was kept there for 7 years. In the two years that South Lakes has had a new and fabulous principal who has done much to improve the academic environment, South Lakes SAT scores had the highest gains in the County. Give us time. We are on a strong upward trajectory.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2007 12:56PM by SLVerity.

Hmmm7, I see we have both come out of retirement.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom Wrote:
>
> >
> > (Example: 12/05 sale for $546,000 in SW with
> > 1,967 above ground sq. ft. Meanwhile, there was
> a
> > 12/05 sale in Fox Mill for a house with only
> 1,791
> > above ground square feet sold for $592,000.
> > Smaller than Stratton Woods and $46K more.)
>
> You have no idea what improvements had been made
> to the interiors. A new kitchen can bump a price
> by 20%. Not a good example.
>
> Do you think that the immigrants in Reston are
> lazy? Our school has kids from 70 different
> countries. Which group is 'lazy' BTW. Are you
> going to tell us?


I'll stick up for FME Mom. My child at Carson is friends with lots of Indian, Asian and Middle Eastern kids. (okay, so that's all his friends actually). Anyway, those kids work really hard. Two of his friends took Friday off from school to study for the TJ test, for cryin' out loud. So, the "lazy" kids could be anything, but the work ethic of the Asians etc. is pretty impressive.

Either you know what we mean and are playing dumb or you have no credibility asking us to be happy about coming to your school. Anyway, apparently SOME of the kids at SL are either lazy by comparison or the school isn't doing a good job with them. Could be the native born white kids, who's to say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2007 01:00PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmm7, I see we have both come out of retirement.


Yes, welcome back, we missed you.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> ... schools can do
> > better with what we've got.
>
> In years past which led to Stuart's successes,
> they had an excellent principal who was very much
> responsible for those successes. Meanwhile, South
> Lakes had an appointed principal who was an
> absolute disaster. Despite the parents best
> efforts, she was kept there for 7 years. In the
> two years that South Lakes has had a new and
> fabulous principal who has done much to improve
> the academic environment, South Lakes SAT scores
> had the highest gains in the County. Give us
> time. We are on a strong upward trajectory.


So, given Stuart's success, which you seem to be attributing to a great principal, and the fact that the two schools are so similar and that South Lakes now has a great principal, there should really be no need to consider socio-economic mix to improve South Lakes? I'd love to give you time to continue on your strong upward trajectory. Another year or two before any boundaries are to be changed would be the perfect amount of time. :)

TJ - #1
Oakton - top 125
Chantilly - top 125
Westfield - top 150
SL # 800 plus

forget your top 3%. If this were a job would you want to leave a top one hundred job for one ranked about 70 to 80% lower? If you answer yes you are an idiot. School is a job for our children at this time of thier life, this will get them ready for life. Having free lunch and cooking classes will not.

A thought, why don't you use the cooking classes to make lunches for the students, that way you benefit two groups (the hungry and the "non advantaged" kids as the PTSA called the current student body)

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> don't give up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > - Advantaged kids should be left where they are.
>
> > NOT moved to the 800 and something rated school
> in
> > America.
>
> You should at least get your facts straight. The
> Newsweek ranking lists the top 5% of schools in
> the US, or the top 1,350 schools in the Country,
> out of 27,000 schools. South Lakes is actually
> ranked near the top 3%. We are talking about a
> difference between the top 1% and the top 3%. Do
> the math.


Exactly. Great point on the Gestalt--o-meter.

Activist Toujours Wrote:
> ...Are we to blame the
> "housing crisis" on the redistricting of Ffx
> COUNTY students? ... The average home prices in
> Reston have decreased just like in everyone else's
> neighborhoods. Please don't blame it on the
> redistricting. ...
>
> South Lakes is not getting the money to support
> the classes they need to keep up with You Jones'
> out here. ...
>
> Sarcasm aside, the pettiness of the idea of a
> year-round HS is idiotic.
---------------

I have not seen any posts that claim home prices are declining because of redistricting. What people claim, and what can be checked using online tax records and sales data, is that the same house costs more if it located, for example, in the Langley boundaries than in the South Lakes boundaries. Similarly, people claim home buyers with a certain amount of money to spend are willing to settle for "less house" in a "good" school district. Do you deny that schools are a factor in choosing a house?

Check the FCPS budget closely. You will find South Lakes is already getting extra resources.

Why do you think a year-round high school is "idiotic"? THIS IS ONE OF THE FEATURES THAT "WORKS" AT STUART! The summer semester starts mid-June and the the fall semester starts mid-August. The eight-week summer trimester allows students to complete up to four additional semester courses, continue with courses that they have not yet mastered, or complete two year-long courses.

Hi Folks, I am a father of three boys in the McNair ES district. My oldest son is a Freshman at Westfield HS, and we have attended both public meetings on the issue of redistricting.

I have not seen anyone else from the McNair ES district at the meetings; and I think that is because, in general, communication in our neighborhood is not fluent; and there are many who are apathetic to this issue.

I am disappointed that in all four options, our neighborhood (eastern McNair) is switched to another school. Believe me, I can see the writing on the wall here! I think the Board member responsible (Stu) for our district assumes that folks here won't mind if we are switched. He knows that we are in the dark on the matter, and is taking advantage of it. He hasn't even responded to a very polite letter I sent him. Neither has Kathy Smith.

I do not care one bit about property values - anywhere! That fool who complained about it is selfish, and ought to be ingnored. What I resent is how the Board is not respecting the children's desire to NOT be moved from one school to another, breaking bonds of friendships developed over several years in many cases.

All in all, the school board or Stu shouldn't rely on neighboring communities to bail out. A summary of posts I saw here: Socio-economic factors is NOT key to improve a school's performance (as seen b/t South Lakes and Stuart). The board should listen to not only South Lakes, but also people affected. During the majority of the two town hall meetings, the majority support NO CHANGE. I wonder how the board will explain their selective listening.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Folks, I am a father of three boys in the
> McNair ES district. My oldest son is a Freshman at
> Westfield HS, and we have attended both public
> meetings on the issue of redistricting.
>
> I have not seen anyone else from the McNair ES
> district at the meetings; and I think that is
> because, in general, communication in our
> neighborhood is not fluent; and there are many who
> are apathetic to this issue.
>
> I am disappointed that in all four options, our
> neighborhood (eastern McNair) is switched to
> another school. Believe me, I can see the writing
> on the wall here! I think the Board member
> responsible (Stu) for our district assumes that
> folks here won't mind if we are switched. He knows
> that we are in the dark on the matter, and is
> taking advantage of it. He hasn't even responded
> to a very polite letter I sent him. Neither has
> Kathy Smith.
>
> I do not care one bit about property values -
> anywhere! That fool who complained about it is
> selfish, and ought to be ingnored. What I resent
> is how the Board is not respecting the children's
> desire to NOT be moved from one school to another,
> breaking bonds of friendships developed over
> several years in many cases.

I am a non-immigrant McNair father with 2 sons at McNair ES, and one son a freshman at Westfield HS.

Our neighborhood has obviously been completely disrespected by the Board. It's pretty clear that we're going to be switched - ours was the only area to be moved in all four options.

I have pleaded with all Board members individually, politely and eloquently, to avoid redistricting as a means to solve temporary enrollment number issues. I received a positive response from Mr. Raney, and no responses whatsoever from Mr. Gibson or Mrs. Smith.

We are being run over, and I am trying to get the word out to everyone concerned that we should not accept this process.

Let me add that I have no problems with sending my youngest children to South Lakes or Herndon HS if this is where we end up, both are equally fine schools, along with Westfield HS. I just want people to understand that this process is the result of a School Board in a panic, inwilling to examine a patient and creative solution to THEIR problem!

> Our neighborhood has obviously been completely disrespected by the Board
Let's not forget the lack of respect from the South Lakes community too

I feel for you Berdhuis. . . . I also believe that you folks at McNair need to make some noise. Write Janie Strauss (your school board rep) as she is who is looking out for your best interest. . . which IS staying at Westfield so that all three Title I schools are equally spread between three separate high schools.

Your kids will keep their ties and their educational futures are brighter learning in an environment that is more balanced such as Westfield.

The problem is that McNair is one of the schools that can be redistricted to relieve the over crowded Westfield. . . .overcrowded Westfield is one of the major issues starting this boundary study (one, of SEVERAL). This is a BIGBER problem, too, as McNair is one of the schools that really should not be disrupted and has more to lose by a disruption than any of the other areas that I have seen so far.

Do you know if your children will go to the new Coppermine Elementary school when it is built? Do you happen to know what the boundaries are for that? . . has there been any info. on Coppermine in your school?

Keep your chin up and make some noise . . . .

I am a non-immigrant McNair father with 2 sons at McNair ES, and one son a freshman at Westfield HS.

Our neighborhood has obviously been completely disrespected by the Board. It's pretty clear that we're going to be switched - ours was the only area to be moved in all four options.

I have pleaded with all Board members individually, politely and eloquently, to avoid redistricting as a means to solve temporary enrollment number issues. I received a positive response from Mr. Raney, and no responses whatsoever from Mr. Gibson or Mrs. Smith.

We are being run over, and I am trying to get the word out to everyone concerned that we should not accept this process.

Let me add that I have no problems with sending my youngest children to South Lakes or Herndon HS if this is where we end up, both are equally fine schools, along with Westfield HS. I just want people to understand that this process is the result of a School Board in a panic, unwilling to examine a patient and creative solution to THEIR problem!

Hi Hmmm,

Thanks, we live directly across the street from McNair ES. Ironically, several years ago we lived across the street from South Lakes HS, and all of us had planned on attending SL - we were excited about it, too!

My oldest son will finish at Westfield, no matter what happens, though. This is not about avoiding South Lakes or Herndon HS; it's about finishing something important that we started - building community. And sadly, the Board seems to be trivializing this.

hmmm07 Wrote:

>
> So, given Stuart's success, which you seem to be
> attributing to a great principal, and the fact
> that the two schools are so similar and that South
> Lakes now has a great principal, there should
> really be no need to consider socio-economic mix
> to improve South Lakes? I'd love to give you time
> to continue on your strong upward trajectory.
> Another year or two before any boundaries are to
> be changed would be the perfect amount of time.
> :)

Why don't you ask the middle class Stuart families if they would rather have more middle class families in the school. For purposes of this study, we are only talking about comparisons between the schools in the study.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I have not seen any posts that claim home prices
> are declining because of redistricting.

There was one this morning by FME Mom. There have been several over the course of this board. VaDriver is particularly obsessed with the subject.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Hmmm,
>
> Thanks, we live directly across the street from
> McNair ES. Ironically, several years ago we lived
> across the street from South Lakes HS, and all of
> us had planned on attending SL - we were excited
> about it, too!
>
> My oldest son will finish at Westfield, no matter
> what happens, though. This is not about avoiding
> South Lakes or Herndon HS; it's about finishing
> something important that we started - building
> community. And sadly, the Board seems to be
> trivializing this.

South Lakes actually supports keeping McNair at Westfield, though perhaps not from a community building standpoint. We think the Title I kids in your school and ours are better served if they remain where they are now located. But we would welcome you if you come:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2007 02:21PM by SLVerity.

Well, when the youngest are ready for HS, and if we're in SL territory at the time, we'll gladly become The Mighty Seahawks!!! Thanks for the warm welcome in advance.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have no idea what improvements had been made
> to the interiors. A new kitchen can bump a price
> by 20%. Not a good example.

True, but by all means, go to the Fairfax County Property Tax site and find some good comparisons to debunk my theory. Tax and sales data is public information. I used the December example as that was when property values were at their peak. I found similar properties, and I'm certain the Stratton Woods house was is good shape as that is still a good price for a home. If you would like, I would be more than happy to drive by BOTH properties to compare them in person.

> Do you think that the immigrants in Reston are
> lazy? Our school has kids from 70 different
> countries. Which group is 'lazy' BTW. Are you
> going to tell us?

Hmmm, I don't think I said that Reston immigrants are lazy. What I DO equate to lazy is the folks in the government housing projects like Stonegate, West Glade, Cedar Point (or something like that... it's near Forest Edge) who sit at home waiting for their welfare check to come. I guess I can't leave out the scattered section 8 housing throughout all of the other apartment communities in Reston.

I agree with rent control to a certain degree and there are many communities in the area that have a minimum and maximum income level with reasonably priced apartments. I know a single mother making $35K would have a very difficult time paying $1,400 in rent on top of a car payment and daycare; HOWEVER I don't support welfare. There are enough charities and bleeding heart liberals that can pay the way for others. I don't want to, and shouldn't have to. It's not like I grew up in an abundantly wealthy neighborhood. My mom worked. She worked her ass off. I watched her, and learned by example. I have been employed since I was 16. I have moved up the management chain in every job I've held -- even as a 16 year old working in fast food! My work ethic and initiative paid off. Oh, and more about me (since I'm in a very revealing mood)..... I don't even have a college degree.

*GASP*

I hear so much whining and pity parties from people collecting their government checks about not being able to go to school like the rich kids or this lame excuse or that lame excuse and THAT'S why they're on welfare. HORSE POCKEY!!!!! They are LAZY! There is not a shortage of jobs, especially for unskilled laborers. Some people would rather get their check than work a job that they consider beneath them. THAT makes me laugh.

FME Mom:

If you had read me enough, you'd know that I don't believe in the Great Society either.

im a highschool student and im BEGGING to be redistricted to a school with hot young blonde teachers who bang thier students!