hahahah

you parents are A #1 stupid if you really think these dudes are for real?
BUT, OK , keep it coming on. its greAT.

What what are you, 'student'? Anything but.

>>>I should add that many options are on the table. All schools need to be able to adapt to changes on the ground.<<<

Could you please tell us what that means? And how you know that?

You shouldn't read anything into it. I'm basing it on what was said tonight on the videotape. Didn't they say that the scenarios would likely change?

Neen -

I posted this earlier today. It has all the talking point documents put out by the South Lakes PTSA - you'll see that Brian above pretty much posted option 5.


Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: sos (IP Logged)
Date: December 03, 2007 03:32PM


Everyone should go check out the following website for the South Lakes PTSA -
(the school that says "Where they come from, we don't mind. It's not our battle to fight).

Go to the southlakesptsa.org/boundaries.htm site and click on the link for About the 4 Options - Talking Points.


On this website is a pdf document just posted this weekend with their talking points for the four options and it is is one of these documents where they are proposing a fifth option:

To summarize this option - it is the Madison Island, East Floris and Fox Mill to South Lakes and Navy to Oakton.

They obviously aren't interested in McNair as someone stated a couple pages back, otherwise why would they come up with their own option. I wonder how much help they received in preparing this option?

There is also a talking points on how they plan to participate in the meeting tonight - just so everyone knows what they need to be prepared to handle tonight.

>>>The PTA hasn't endorsed anything. Individuals are advocating for different scenarios.<<<

Thanks for clearing that up.

Which scenario will Stu chose for South Lakes? I still don't understand why there were no scenarios presented that did more to help South Lakes reduce FRL. I thought that would have been a priority for Stu and staff.

I did hear Tistadt say tonight, more than once, that the school board chose the boundary and which schools would be involved. I have to assume they will also chose the schools who will go to South Lakes. I also think Tistadt was telling us tonight that it will NOT be any of the scenarios that we got tonight. How silly. Why didn't they just give us that scenario too?

I was under the impression from the County that the staff makes up the scenarios and then the school board reviews them and makes modifications later in the process. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think the school board has done anything thus far, according to the process laid out on the website.

Posted by: Verity's Proxy
Date: November 16, 2007

Dear FFX Dad, SLVerity is no longer posting here, but I forwarded your post to Verity and was asked to thank you for the nice comments and also for the measured post. Verity also wants to apologize if you took offense at a particular comment and wants to assure you that it was posted in frustration and not out of any real animus.

Since you sound very knowledgeable, Verity is wondering how someone could be involved in a solutions based dialogue with parents from other schools, besides posting here and in addition to attending the boundary meetings. If you have any suggestions, please share them.

_______________


I'm not sure which one is worse ... the idiot or the proxy idiot

Well option 5 is definitely on the South Lakes PTSA Website with talking points. If that isn't advocating a position, I'm not sure what else would need to be done for advocacy. Especially when the PTSA's Ms. Allen's comments to channel 4 correspond with the talking points.

And as far as not getting the real option presented in this meeting with the first 4 options, that shouldn't surprise anyone. If it comes up in a meeting from someone in the community, then the school board can say it was a community based input and they are just doing what the community wants. They just have to wait until someone mentions the option they wanted in the first place, then just jump on it. Can't wait to see what option gets put on the table for us all to chew on December 19 - somebody is going to get blindsided.

>>>Didn't they say that the scenarios would likely change?<<<

Yup. THAT was a big 'heads up, we've changed our minds again'.

>>>Well option 5 is definitely on the South Lakes PTSA Website with talking points<<<

Yes, it is. I'd say that constitutes PTSA support. Or maybe their PTA just isn't into that whole 'democracy' thing. The leaders decide what is best for the people. Just a guess.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2007 03:23AM by Neen.

>>>>I was under the impression from the County that the staff makes up the scenarios and then the school board reviews them and makes modifications later in the process. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think the school board has done anything thus far, according to the process laid out on the website<<<

Yes, and no. Stu Gibson decides what happens in his district, as each school board member decides what happens in their district. Other school board members won't do anything in Hunter Mill. It's not their district. Stu, Janie, and Kathy decided last summer which schools could be considered for the boundary study. I suspect the final scenario was decided then too. In any event, Stu will approve the final scenario that will be presented to the community at the next meeting. After that, the school board listens to the public whine for a couple of days of hearings and then they approve the scenario that Stu has chosen. At the last minute, they may change something, something little, like how many grades are grandfathered, or which schools get grandfathered, or some small neighborhood gets left out, or pulled in. They might tweak it at the vote, but only Stu can recommend tweaking in any Hunter Mill schools, Kathy in Sully schools, etc. The three at large people will vote with the majority, with Stu. Of course. OR, sometimes the board will agree to let someone vote against a proposal, knowing that it will pass without their vote.

Basically, it's over at the next meeting. We'll know then which schools are going to South Lakes.

BTW, it's always scenario number three that is chosen by staff in boundary changes. Don't know why, but they like the number three. So expect it to be three, with a possible 'tweak'.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can someone tell us where we can link to the
> > Option #5 from South Lakes?
> >
> > I've been told that option #5 is supported by
> the
> > PTA board, but PTA members have not been polled
> > and the board does not represent the majority
> of
> > parents. Many want option #4. Is that true?
> Is
> > the PTA President and VP speaking for
> themselves?
> > Or do they have support of South Lakes parents?
>
> The PTA hasn't endorsed anything. Individuals are
> advocating for different scenarios.


Look at the PTSA website for SL. Click on their boundary study link then click on their "talking points" link. You will see option 5. It appears the PTSA is endorsing it.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a complete sham.
>
> UNBELIEVALBLE... The school board never showed up.
> Did anyone really think those lying bastards
> would?
>
> The sheep were all given room assignments. Sheep
> arriving together did not receive the same room
> numbers. The sheep were corralled into rooms with
> a 'facilitator', to control them.
>
> I walked around the halls for awhile, but soon
> tired of the smiling robots, constantly asking me
> for my room number. I finally wandered into one
> of the chambers.
>
> Here is what I witnessed.
>
> A Middle Eastern man, trying hard to express
> himself, was being told to shut up by a large
> white man sitting behind him. The facilitator,
> condescendingly, reminded the Middle Eastern man,
> that he had only seconds left to ask his question.
>
>
> When the man continued to speak, struggling with
> the English language, the same big white guy told
> him to 'shut up', again. Then, the facilitator,
> actually opened the door, and asked the Middle
> Eastern man to leave the room....... because, he
> was unable to articulate his question in the
> allotted time. When the man objected, another
> person, this time, a woman, sternly agreed that he
> should leave. He didn't leave but he did shut
> up.
>
> I objected and was asked by the facilitator, "And,
> who are you?" She was clearly annoyed that I
> wasn't wearing a name tag, so I exited.
>
> People were hired to work the rooms. This was so
> dirty, it made the MOB look clean.
>
> How much money did this sham cost us?
>
> THIS GROUP OF CROOKS MUST GO.


Golly wolly, BirdB, what balderdash? That really wasn't apple cider in your mug, after all.

It was a drama-free (read: kinda boring) event in most cases, but get real...just because your MOB never materialized does not equate to sheep in the pen.

brian Wrote:
>
> It meets the following criteria:
> - reduces enrollment at WHS and CHS (1)

This is a fake criteria cooked up by the county. They built Westfield to hold 2500 students. They expanded it to hold 3100. This was all done at taxpayer expense so recently that the Westfield expansion is not completely finished. Now, oops, they need to run Westfield at 2/3 capacity.
>
> This would also unite Navy to one high school,

It would also split Floris into 2 high schools. It would split my kid's elementary school class and scout troop into 2 different high schools. Is it a good thing or a bad thing to split elementary schools?

> minimize commute for East Floris and Fox Mill
> students

It takes me longer to drive from my house in Floris to South Lakes than to Westfield. Try it sometime. It IS closer for Fox Mill than Oakton.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> SL's option #5 puts too many students into South
> Lakes and doesn't take enough out of Westfield.


Once again, this is a fake criteria. Westfield will be UNDER capacity in the next few years. The SB prefers empty seats at Westfield to empty seats at SL. They want these seats emptied so much that all options include moving McNair ( a Title I school) to Herndon or SL.

There is no NEED to take students out of Westfield. It is just an excuse to avoid taking Herndon and Reston students out of Langley.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had maybe 6 South Lakes supporters in my group,
> a couple of adults and 4 students, but none of
> them spoke up for South Lakes. The kids didn't
> have any talking points at all. They were sweet,
> but young and seemingly uniformed.


Nice backhanded compliment, although it seems to undercut the sentiment that the PTSA uberfuhrers have carefully calibrated the message with our impressionable youth.

Maybe they didn't "speak up for South Lakes" b/c

(a) it wasn't the forum for preemptive declarations of support for a school, and

(b) posters who love to slime people in the dead of night were mum when the lights were on and they had to see people face-to-face?

Maybe they actually commented on the various scenarios - pro and con, as was the case in my group.

I was happy to see a number of students (mostly "STU"dents) at the meeting last night, but does anyone have any thoughts on why/how their remarks seemed to carry equal weight to those of the adult, voting-age attendees? (Perhaps someone was checking id's and I somehow missed it?). If not, I think I'll drag all of my grade school students to the next session and let them read from my talking points. Then again, I suspect the staff and Board will just ignore their "input" as readily as it does ours.

I live west of the Fairfax County Parkway in Emerald Chase. It is rediculous to even consider Oak Hill Elementary or any part of Floris to go to Oakton! This is not putting kisd safety first.I will people place before my kids go there.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> >
> > It concerns me that you are not considering a
> > non-moratorium option #5.
> > It would seem that there is an alternative that
> > would trump your proposed options:
> >
> > Madison Island to SLHS
> > East Floris to SLHS
> > Fox Mill to SLHS
> > Navy to OHS
> >
> >
> > It meets the following criteria:
> > - reduces enrollment at WHS and CHS (1)
> > - more students at SLHS gives them equal access
> to
> > resources (2)
> > - Lowering number of free/reduced lunch
> students
> > at SLHS (3)
> > - Eliminates Madison Island (4)
> >
> > This would also unite Navy to one high school,
> > from minimize commute for East Floris and Fox
> Mill
> > students
> >
> > Please, please consider this option.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > brian xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Moving Navy to Oakton is absurd. Kids from the
> Navy district can WALK to Chantilly. Why bus them
> to Oakton? Same with Oak Hill -- moving them to
> Oakton is farther away than Fox Mill, and they
> have never been a part of the Oakton district.


Exactly. Which is why Oakton (which is neither over nor under enrolled) should be left out of this rather than be used as a domino. ANy scenario that removes either Fox Mill or Crossfield will require a backfilling of Oakton which also results in those long commutes. Why is it that South Lakes people are so very concerned about Fox Mill's long commutes, yet they are happy to have Navy have a commute that QUADRUPLES their drive time???

Rolly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live west of the Fairfax County Parkway in
> Emerald Chase. It is rediculous to even consider
> Oak Hill Elementary or any part of Floris to go to
> Oakton! This is not putting kisd safety first.I
> will people place before my kids go there.


Of course Oak Hill is not going to Oakton, that would be absurd. They just threw that scenario in so when Oak Hill is sent to Westfield it won't look as bad and they can say see, you don't have to travel 10 miles to Oakton just 5 to Westfield.

So now it appears that in order to drag others into this mess we offer to split up other elementaries. This was one of the few things the board put any weight on that the people voiced. PLease be aware this could turn around and bite you in the butt...big time. KEEP ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS INTACT....THINK THEY WON'T SLICE OAK HILL, ARMSTRONG, CROSSFELD AND MORE.

Witness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So now it appears that in order to drag others
> into this mess we offer to split up other
> elementaries. This was one of the few things the
> board put any weight on that the people voiced.
> PLease be aware this could turn around and bite
> you in the butt...big time. KEEP ELEMENTARY
> SCHOOLS INTACT....THINK THEY WON'T SLICE OAK HILL,
> ARMSTRONG, CROSSFELD AND MORE.


Right, but let's remember that the there will be a new elementary school, Coopermine, in the Floris and McNair area. And if they can say they are really not splitting Floris and McNair but in actuality sending Coppermine, they will.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Sending Oak Hill or Navy would
> > SIGNIFICANTLY increase their commuting time,
> and
> > they would have to take major roads to get to
> > school.
> >
> > However, if they send Fox Mill kicking and
> > screaming to that hell hole, I'd want to drag
> > Floris right along with us.
> >
> > I still don't see how that is a win-win
> scenario.
> > Oakton is in the top 100 while South Lakes,
> well,
> > we've already covered that....
>
> Perhaps we can get SL, which is not a hell hole
> BTW, into the top 100. With parents like you
> involved:) we could kick Oakton's a#%!!
>
> Navy can drive straight down Waples Mill to
> Jermantown, which changes to Blake when it crosses
> over 123. Just a quick hop to Sutton.


Haha! A "quick hop?" Have you driven this in the morning? I drive it all the time and there is no "quick hop" about it. I found it very interesting that the South Lakes people were so very worried about "uniting Navy" last night at the meeting, yet they were all very happy to split up McNair and/or Floris. It was very telling. They wanted people to think they want what is best for "all" students affected...as long as those students were from South Lakes anyway. How is moving Navy to Oakton in Navy's best interest? Why is uniting Navy more important than keeping Floris together?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can someone tell us where we can link to the
> > Option #5 from South Lakes?
> >
> > I've been told that option #5 is supported by
> the
> > PTA board, but PTA members have not been polled
> > and the board does not represent the majority
> of
> > parents. Many want option #4. Is that true?
> Is
> > the PTA President and VP speaking for
> themselves?
> > Or do they have support of South Lakes parents?
>
> The PTA hasn't endorsed anything. Individuals are
> advocating for different scenarios.


If the PTA isn't endorsing anything, then what was that paper of "talking points" that all six people from South Lakes were reading verbatim in my small group?

justguessing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Witness Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So now it appears that in order to drag others
> > into this mess we offer to split up other
> > elementaries. This was one of the few things
> the
> > board put any weight on that the people voiced.
> > PLease be aware this could turn around and bite
> > you in the butt...big time. KEEP ELEMENTARY
> > SCHOOLS INTACT....THINK THEY WON'T SLICE OAK
> HILL,
> > ARMSTRONG, CROSSFELD AND MORE.
>
>
> Right, but let's remember that the there will be a
> new elementary school, Coopermine, in the Floris
> and McNair area. And if they can say they are
> really not splitting Floris and McNair but in
> actuality sending Coppermine, they will.


Let's remember that there is a supposed boundary study process required before setting up school districts. Do we get to go to court when they bypass it to secretly create the Coppermine boundaries one year prior to the study. (Why not do the Coppermine study right now, anyway?)

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FME Mom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > Sending Oak Hill or Navy would
> > > SIGNIFICANTLY increase their commuting time,
> > and
> > > they would have to take major roads to get to
> > > school.
> > >
> > > However, if they send Fox Mill kicking and
> > > screaming to that hell hole, I'd want to drag
> > > Floris right along with us.
> > >
> > > I still don't see how that is a win-win
> > scenario.
> > > Oakton is in the top 100 while South Lakes,
> > well,
> > > we've already covered that....
> >
> > Perhaps we can get SL, which is not a hell hole
> > BTW, into the top 100. With parents like you
> > involved:) we could kick Oakton's a#%!!
> >
> > Navy can drive straight down Waples Mill to
> > Jermantown, which changes to Blake when it
> crosses
> > over 123. Just a quick hop to Sutton.
>
>
> Haha! A "quick hop?" Have you driven this in the
> morning? I drive it all the time and there is no
> "quick hop" about it. I found it very interesting
> that the South Lakes people were so very worried
> about "uniting Navy" last night at the meeting,
> yet they were all very happy to split up McNair
> and/or Floris. It was very telling. They wanted
> people to think they want what is best for "all"
> students affected...as long as those students were
> from South Lakes anyway. How is moving Navy to
> Oakton in Navy's best interest? Why is uniting
> Navy more important than keeping Floris together?


Yes, and Herndon and SL are both very, very concerned about the students from Armstrong and Aldrin traveling across the toll road, but putting students on I-66 to travel from Chantilly to Oakton seems reasonable to them. Go figure.

anotherobserver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > FME Mom Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > Sending Oak Hill or Navy would
> > > > SIGNIFICANTLY increase their commuting
> time,
> > > and
> > > > they would have to take major roads to get
> to
> > > > school.
> > > >
> > > > However, if they send Fox Mill kicking and
> > > > screaming to that hell hole, I'd want to
> drag
> > > > Floris right along with us.
> > > >
> > > > I still don't see how that is a win-win
> > > scenario.
> > > > Oakton is in the top 100 while South Lakes,
> > > well,
> > > > we've already covered that....
> > >
> > > Perhaps we can get SL, which is not a hell
> hole
> > > BTW, into the top 100. With parents like you
> > > involved:) we could kick Oakton's a#%!!
> > >
> > > Navy can drive straight down Waples Mill to
> > > Jermantown, which changes to Blake when it
> > crosses
> > > over 123. Just a quick hop to Sutton.
> >
> >
> > Haha! A "quick hop?" Have you driven this in
> the
> > morning? I drive it all the time and there is
> no
> > "quick hop" about it. I found it very
> interesting
> > that the South Lakes people were so very
> worried
> > about "uniting Navy" last night at the meeting,
> > yet they were all very happy to split up McNair
> > and/or Floris. It was very telling. They
> wanted
> > people to think they want what is best for
> "all"
> > students affected...as long as those students
> were
> > from South Lakes anyway. How is moving Navy to
> > Oakton in Navy's best interest? Why is uniting
> > Navy more important than keeping Floris
> together?
>
>
> Yes, and Herndon and SL are both very, very
> concerned about the students from Armstrong and
> Aldrin traveling across the toll road, but putting
> students on I-66 to travel from Chantilly to
> Oakton seems reasonable to them. Go figure.


Yeah, what is with that "across the toll road" stuff I was listening to last night? Is there a light at the intersection of Centrevill Road and the Toll Road that I've missed? I could have sworn the toll road is either an overpass or travels under any roads that would need to be travelled to get to and/or from Herndon to South Lakes. People are really reaching....

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Can someone tell us where we can link to the
> > > Option #5 from South Lakes?
> > >
> > > I've been told that option #5 is supported by
> > the
> > > PTA board, but PTA members have not been
> polled
> > > and the board does not represent the majority
> > of
> > > parents. Many want option #4. Is that true?
>
> > Is
> > > the PTA President and VP speaking for
> > themselves?
> > > Or do they have support of South Lakes
> parents?
> >
> > The PTA hasn't endorsed anything. Individuals
> are
> > advocating for different scenarios.
>
>
> If the PTA isn't endorsing anything, then what was
> that paper of "talking points" that all six people
> from South Lakes were reading verbatim in my small
> group?


Why does Herndon have a talking points on its website? And how did they get a school bus to take parents and students to the meeting?

Since no one wants to leave Chantilly, I say leave it crowded. Keep the kids in trailers.

Oakton has enough students that they can lose a few to SL. SL shouldn't have to take McNair, a HERNDON elementary school which already goes to Westfield, when there are Reston schools who don't go to SL.

Fox Mill and some East Floris (soon to be just Floris after Coppermine takes West McNair and West Floris) parents DO want to come to SL. It's hard to have your kid shine in a school of over 3000!

anotherobserver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > FME Mom Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > Sending Oak Hill or Navy would
> > > > SIGNIFICANTLY increase their commuting
> time,
> > > and
> > > > they would have to take major roads to get
> to
> > > > school.
> > > >
> > > > However, if they send Fox Mill kicking and
> > > > screaming to that hell hole, I'd want to
> drag
> > > > Floris right along with us.
> > > >
> > > > I still don't see how that is a win-win
> > > scenario.
> > > > Oakton is in the top 100 while South Lakes,
> > > well,
> > > > we've already covered that....
> > >
> > > Perhaps we can get SL, which is not a hell
> hole
> > > BTW, into the top 100. With parents like you
> > > involved:) we could kick Oakton's a#%!!
> > >
> > > Navy can drive straight down Waples Mill to
> > > Jermantown, which changes to Blake when it
> > crosses
> > > over 123. Just a quick hop to Sutton.
> >
> >
> > Haha! A "quick hop?" Have you driven this in
> the
> > morning? I drive it all the time and there is
> no
> > "quick hop" about it. I found it very
> interesting
> > that the South Lakes people were so very
> worried
> > about "uniting Navy" last night at the meeting,
> > yet they were all very happy to split up McNair
> > and/or Floris. It was very telling. They
> wanted
> > people to think they want what is best for
> "all"
> > students affected...as long as those students
> were
> > from South Lakes anyway. How is moving Navy to
> > Oakton in Navy's best interest? Why is uniting
> > Navy more important than keeping Floris
> together?
>
>
> Yes, and Herndon and SL are both very, very
> concerned about the students from Armstrong and
> Aldrin traveling across the toll road, but putting
> students on I-66 to travel from Chantilly to
> Oakton seems reasonable to them. Go figure.


I found this completely laughable! Um, Aldrin and Armstrong can't handle crossing the Toll Road, but Lake Anne and Forest Edge can? LAME argument. I mean, I understand that some kids from that area can walk to Herndon. THAT'S a good argument, not that they can't handle crossing the friggin' Toll Road. It's not like they have to get ON the Toll Road.

One other question for the group, if I may...
When an Option references a complete Elementary School "district" (Navy, Oak Hill, etc), how likely would it be that they would reach over into an adjoining ES district to grab only 10-20 homes, in an effort to avoid cul de sacs, minor turnarounds, or for the convenience of bus drivers? ie Would bus routes trump ES integrity? Thanks, I've enjoyed reading this board.

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Neen Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Can someone tell us where we can link to
> the
> > > > Option #5 from South Lakes?
> > > >
> > > > I've been told that option #5 is supported
> by
> > > the
> > > > PTA board, but PTA members have not been
> > polled
> > > > and the board does not represent the
> majority
> > > of
> > > > parents. Many want option #4. Is that
> true?
> >
> > > Is
> > > > the PTA President and VP speaking for
> > > themselves?
> > > > Or do they have support of South Lakes
> > parents?
> > >
> > > The PTA hasn't endorsed anything.
> Individuals
> > are
> > > advocating for different scenarios.
> >
> >
> > If the PTA isn't endorsing anything, then what
> was
> > that paper of "talking points" that all six
> people
> > from South Lakes were reading verbatim in my
> small
> > group?
>
>
> Why does Herndon have a talking points on its
> website? And how did they get a school bus to
> take parents and students to the meeting?

I have no idea. I was speaking to the person who claimed that South Lakes PTA had not endorsed anything. I'm sure Herndon's PTA has also endorsed something. They've been exceptionally well organized since the very beginning of this whole mess.

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since no one wants to leave Chantilly, I say leave
> it crowded. Keep the kids in trailers.
>
> Oakton has enough students that they can lose a
> few to SL. SL shouldn't have to take McNair, a
> HERNDON elementary school which already goes to
> Westfield, when there are Reston schools who don't
> go to SL.
>
> Fox Mill and some East Floris (soon to be just
> Floris after Coppermine takes West McNair and West
> Floris) parents DO want to come to SL. It's hard
> to have your kid shine in a school of over 3000!


Don't speak for Fox Mill. The MAJORITY want to stay with Oakton, NOT South Lakes.

That's also a ridiculous statement -- it's hard for your kid to shine in a school of over 3000? Oakton doesn't have 3000 students, and there are OODLES of stars at Oakton from Fox Mill. Granted, it's easier for a mediocre student to look like a star when they are in competition with people who aren't even close to their level.... I'd rather my child be challenged by her peers at Oakton than stand out in a sea of mediocrity.

Riddle Me This Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One other question for the group, if I may...
> When an Option references a complete Elementary
> School "district" (Navy, Oak Hill, etc), how
> likely would it be that they would reach over into
> an adjoining ES district to grab only 10-20 homes,
> in an effort to avoid cul de sacs, minor
> turnarounds, or for the convenience of bus
> drivers? ie Would bus routes trump ES integrity?
> Thanks, I've enjoyed reading this board.

Well, they've done it before. There is a small island of 70 kids who feed Navy and Oakton that is surrounded by homes from Crossfield. Also, unless they have changed it in the last few years, there was one street in the Crossfield district that fed Chantilly. It iwas one of the first streets off of Tuckaway by the Fairfax County Parkway.

I think it is most fair to take one school from each high school. One from Herndon being Aldrin, one from Oakton being Fox Mill and the remainder (?)from Floris...not as much as other scenarios.

Otherwise leave Herndon and Oakton out of it and put the overcrowded straight into the underfilled schools.

Here's a suggestion... turn Dogwood into a K-12 island.

Better yet, get rid of half of the projects in Reston (i.e. 50% of Stonegate and West Glade) and spread the wealth to other parts of the county -- perhaps in the Langly district. They need some ESOL and FRM demographics, and it would help South Lakes' numbers so more people wouldn't be as adamently opposed to going there.

Er, adamantly.

In the hopes of addressing the question that was raised repetitively by Neen...i.e. why was Crossfield excluded.

If you move all of Crossfield to South Lakes, you have to move Fox Mill someplace also or you create an island with Fox Mill at Oakton. You can't move Fox Mill to South Lakes at that point because it will no longer fit, and you would have to move something else to get it to Herndon since it only abuts Westfield at this point (and South Lakes) at this point. Crossfield has so many kids (500+) that it almost makes up for the excess capacity at SLHS all by itself. If you move both Crossfield and Fox Mill, you would have a bigger undercapacity issue at Oakton than you do now at South Lakes...and even if you backfil with Navy (about the size of Fox Mill), you still have a big undercapacity issue.

Net Net, Crossfield is too big to move...moving Fox Mill covers most of the SLHS issues with fewer problems. (I'm not in favor of moving it, just stating facts as I know them.) You could of course split it, but most of the kids live in the western edge so splits are not that effective.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get it right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
It's
> hard
> > to have your kid shine in a school of over
> 3000!
>
>
> Don't speak for Fox Mill. The MAJORITY want to
> stay with Oakton, NOT South Lakes.
>
> That's also a ridiculous statement -- it's hard
> for your kid to shine in a school of over 3000?
> Oakton doesn't have 3000 students, and there are
> OODLES of stars at Oakton from Fox Mill. Granted,
> it's easier for a mediocre student to look like a
> star when they are in competition with people who
> aren't even close to their level.... I'd rather
> my child be challenged by her peers at Oakton than
> stand out in a sea of mediocrity.


Yes, most FME parents want to stay at Oakton, no question. I'm sorry that those parents who were okay with SL are now in a panic because they realize Fox Mill is (maybe, likely) being hung out to dry by itself.

I felt sick when the talking head told us not to bother with a moritorium, not gonna happen. Still, as much as I hate to let go of that dream, I suppose it's better to know the reality.

I did see Stu Gibson, briefly, looking furtive. Probably afraid a constituent might approach him.

Our room had pretty much universal support for a magnet at SL. I guess I got in the head in the clouds room. Still, it felt good to float along for a few hours...

Don't speak for FLS, Floris wants to stay with WHS even if it has 3000 students.

Don't speak for Floris, FLS wants to stay with Westfield even if it has 3000 students. There's no FLS East or FLS West, there is one FLS and is NOT a split feeder currently.


Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since no one wants to leave Chantilly, I say leave
> it crowded. Keep the kids in trailers.
>
> Oakton has enough students that they can lose a
> few to SL. SL shouldn't have to take McNair, a
> HERNDON elementary school which already goes to
> Westfield, when there are Reston schools who don't
> go to SL.
>
> Fox Mill and some East Floris (soon to be just
> Floris after Coppermine takes West McNair and West
> Floris) parents DO want to come to SL. It's hard
> to have your kid shine in a school of over 3000!

>
> That's also a ridiculous statement -- it's hard
> for your kid to shine in a school of over 3000?
> Oakton doesn't have 3000 students, and there are
> OODLES of stars at Oakton from Fox Mill. Granted,
> it's easier for a mediocre student to look like a
> star when they are in competition with people who
> aren't even close to their level.... I'd rather
> my child be challenged by her peers at Oakton than
> stand out in a sea of mediocrity.


I was referencing the kids at Westfield - floris and mcnair kids

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't speak for FLS, Floris wants to stay with WHS
> even if it has 3000 students.

How is that academically and extracurricularly more beneficial for your chid
to be in one of the largest high schools in the state? Just curious -


Not all of Floris wants to stay. I spoke to a Floris woman who wouldn't mind moving to SL. You can certainly speak for yourself as can some Fox Mill parents but I've met Crossfield, Fox Mill, and Floris parents who are all for moving to South Lakes. They know they are closer (at least the FM and Crossfield are) and think it is ridiculous for their kids to get a bus at 6:15am to go to high school.

People can and do pupil place into South Lakes but they are responsible for their own transportation. Some parents do work and are unable to drive their kids to and from school each day.

One of the best ideas I heard was for SL to be a late start school.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Our room had pretty much universal support for a
> magnet at SL. I guess I got in the head in the
> clouds room. Still, it felt good to float along
> for a few hours...

My room also had universal support for a magnet school. If South Lakes offered something great, people would WANT to go there. Hunters Woods ES has an Arts and Science Magnet, so a continuation of that would draw people to South Lakes. How about a language magnet program? Most schools seem to have immersion programs, why not create a language magnet? A TJ West would be the most preferred because the distance from our half of the world to TJ deters children from applying and attending, so I don't know why the tight wads won't invest, but they can invest $43M to renovate South Lakes. Nothing was wrong with the building, and I'm certain if you polled parents opposed to South Lakes, the actual building has nothing to do with the opposition.

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't speak for FLS, Floris wants to stay with
> WHS
> > even if it has 3000 students.
>
> How is that academically and extracurricularly
> more beneficial for your chid
> to be in one of the largest high schools in the
> state? Just curious -
>
>
> Not all of Floris wants to stay. I spoke to a
> Floris woman who wouldn't mind moving to SL. You
> can certainly speak for yourself as can some Fox
> Mill parents but I've met Crossfield, Fox Mill,
> and Floris parents who are all for moving to South
> Lakes. They know they are closer (at least the FM
> and Crossfield are) and think it is ridiculous for
> their kids to get a bus at 6:15am to go to high
> school.
>
> People can and do pupil place into South Lakes but
> they are responsible for their own transportation.
> Some parents do work and are unable to drive
> their kids to and from school each day.
>
> One of the best ideas I heard was for SL to be a
> late start school.

Sure, I've spoken with "some" people at Crossfield and Fox Mill who wouldn't mind moving either. But they are generally people with younger kids who haven't experienced Oakton yet. I can guarantee you that those people are definitely the exception rather than the rule. As for pupil placement, that is always an option. To use "I work" is just an excuse. If there are truly so many people who want to pupil place, then I would imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to find a carpool. Of course, that might actually require effort. And the 6:15 time to catch the bus would be even earlier for kids from Oak Hill or Navy to catch a ride to Oakton, but again, that seems to be okay with the folks at South Lakes.

I'm sick of this Herndon PTA junk. The only reason they aren't screaming Langley is it would bump Aldrin which is undercapacity and produces less for high school in 2012 than it does now. If lower income families kids can cross the toll road and live near Lake Anne and Forest Edge then Aldrin can move across in beemers. This is pure BS.

PTA's from South Lakes and Herndon obviously colluded on Option 5 but using the numbers on a consistent basis from the FCPS scenarios 1-4 results in South Lakes overcapcity by 115 and Herndon under by about 229. Herndon had 11 trailers at 59 over and I think already has some of the lowest income neighborhoods from Mcnair.

Westfield in option 5 was still way too large since after building 24 rooms there [instead of at carson converting it to a high school] they are moving academies to that site. South Lakes and Herndon do not have anyone's interests other than their own. That Option 5 was an abomination since it was a considered approach working off the 4 rough scenarios developed by staff for meeting #2.

Moving out the program for children with mr? They deserve to go to school - programs are regional. If Reston was not so Reston [acts like a small city] then more people would want to go - who wants to be a perpetual outsider???

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the hopes of addressing the question that was
> raised repetitively by Neen...i.e. why was
> Crossfield excluded.
>
> If you move all of Crossfield to South Lakes, you
> have to move Fox Mill someplace also or you create
> an island with Fox Mill at Oakton. You can't move
> Fox Mill to South Lakes at that point because it
> will no longer fit, and you would have to move
> something else to get it to Herndon since it only
> abuts Westfield at this point (and South Lakes) at
> this point. Crossfield has so many kids (500+)
> that it almost makes up for the excess capacity at
> SLHS all by itself. If you move both Crossfield
> and Fox Mill, you would have a bigger
> undercapacity issue at Oakton than you do now at
> South Lakes...and even if you backfil with Navy
> (about the size of Fox Mill), you still have a big
> undercapacity issue.
>
> Net Net, Crossfield is too big to move...moving
> Fox Mill covers most of the SLHS issues with fewer
> problems. (I'm not in favor of moving it, just
> stating facts as I know them.) You could of
> course split it, but most of the kids live in the
> western edge so splits are not that effective.


Well said. Unless you involve Fairfax and/or Madison in the study, you can't move any additional kids into Oakton to replace what you are taking out unless you move Oak Hill, Navy or some of these schools that are even further away. You can't just look at a small map that shows the boundaries in the current study. You have to look at a larger map that includes Madison (specifially Flint Hill and Oakton Elementary Schools) and Fairfax (part of Waples Mill Elementary.) Looking at the larger map will make it very clear why Crossfield can't go to South Lakes without decimating Oakton or forcing much longer commutes for Navy and/or Oak Hill.

Wow. The meeting last night at Westfield showed me one thing. Floris and Herndon folks are very worried by Fox Mill's commute to Oakton. Relax. We are fine with it. I don't think the county cares either. It's a shame we are going against each other like this. It brings out the worst in all of us. When you bring up at a meeting a benefit for one school you should announce who you represent so the statement can be taken for what it is.

Oh, and Floris...I could have mentioned your commmute time could be reduced by going to Herndon or South Lakes. But, you guys worked so hard to get into a school that you shouldn't be in... I decided to remain silent. People positioned near Westfield fought Floris from going there, but the big homes and influence were too much for officials. You are the reason for the over population at Westfield because you should have never been there to begin with.

There are advantages and disadvantages to large and small schools. Let the hyper competitive element pupil place their kids to South Lakes.

For my son, Westfield is great:

1) No visible pecking order; there are just too many students for people to know who you are. This was one of the biggest stresses in my 1,200 student high school. Everyone knew everyone and there was no getting away from your "assigned role" He has none of this and loves it.

2) There is a 200 piece marching band. He loves being part of a large band. Contrary to what SL tells you, no kid gets turned down for marching band. There are 3 levels of concert band and 2 of jazz band (one being after school for no credit)

3) More Math

4) Powerhouse football team that is going to win the state championship on Saturday

5) Many honors and AP courses

6) Huge variety of afterschool clubs and activites. Once a hundred kids showed up for math league. They didn't send anyone away; they moved to a larger room.


Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't speak for FLS, Floris wants to stay with
> WHS
> > even if it has 3000 students.
>
> How is that academically and extracurricularly
> more beneficial for your chid
> to be in one of the largest high schools in the
> state? Just curious -
>

This study does not include enough schools. If the SB intended to administer a "2 part" study, then they should have included enough schools that could actually help to address a "2 part" solution. "2 part" would elude to the fact that it is more complicated and needs more schools in order for it to work.

We are trying to move folks around and around and around, but the round pegs do not fit in the square holes. . . . no amount of shuffling of these neighborhoods is going to make this work . . . . . there is not enough of the county involved.

It seems to me that if Westfield and Chantilly are overcrowded and South Lakes is under, then why don't the two overcrowded schools move boundaries to the underenrolled school? . . where do Oakton, Madison "Island" and Herndon fit into all this besides the physical proximity to it all.

Is it possible to send Oak Hill and Floris to South lakes? One school each from the overcrowded Chantilly and Westfield to the under enrolled South Lakes without adding another Title I school to them . . . . I guess McNair would then have to drive through Floris to get to Westfield - seems silly, but McNair is already driving to Westfield. The new Coppermine school will add further splitting to this theory in 2010.

. . .this theory is working with what we've been given . . it is no way necessarily a "good" solution . . . but certainly not the worst I've seen. . .

Hmm - basically that's option 1, except that Herndon get's coppermine

No it is not possible to move floris and oak hill 1-they're too many students, 2 - mcnair is an attendance island

Some random feedback from the meeting:

1. The vast majority of our group favored a revamping of the redistricting process which includes public participation before making any changes at this time.

2. We had several students in our room, from CHS, Westfield, and SLHS. While it was great to see them interested, I felt it was very embarrassing having them view such a dysfunctional process.

3. Option 3 was clearly the preferred option in our room, although again, it was clear doing nothing at this time would have been preferred over any of the presented options.

4. Personal testimony from Floris parents against redistricting was very compelling.

5. The rationale for excluding Langley and Madison from the study came across to me as very disingenuous. If the answer were really that simple, they could have easily provided this answer previously. It sounded like a Tommy Flanagan - "yeah, that's it!" contrived answer to suit the School Board's needs.

6. They tried to avoid getting a lot of moritorium discussion by suggesting that an appropriate time for this discussion would (or may) come later in the process. I wonder when that will be.

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are advantages and disadvantages to large
> and small schools... >
> 1) No visible pecking order; there are just too
> many students for people to know who you are.
> This was one of the biggest stresses in my 1,200
> student high school. Everyone knew everyone and
> there was no getting away from your "assigned
> role" ...

I think there might be an element of learning through tragedy that students are in the care and custody of the school in these formative years and it is only with great peril that students are ignored as another just another body moving through the system. I understand special ed law and FCPS progams and perhaps [although it wld never be admited by FCPS] the system did not help .

"6. They tried to avoid getting a lot of moritorium discussion by suggesting that an appropriate time for this discussion would (or may) come later in the process. I wonder when that will be."

Don't tease me! Just when I was going through the grieving process,...

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "6. They tried to avoid getting a lot of
> moritorium discussion by suggesting that an
> appropriate time for this discussion would (or
> may) come later in the process. I wonder when that
> will be."
>
> Don't tease me! Just when I was going through the
> grieving process,...


My take on it was that moment will probably never come (i.e. discussion of a moritorium). But, it was clearly implied during the presentation that an appropriate time would come.

Did anyone else hear it differently?

In regards to your comment that Navy would be united...............a majority of the students and parents whose children attend Navy, FMS and then Chantilly are more than happy with our current school placements. Having my teenage child drive 6.9 miles on unsafe roads to go to Oakton vs. driving 2.4 miles to CHS is NOT acceptable at all. We love Chantilly High School and will continue to advocate for our studnets to continue to attend. Unless you attend any of these schools...........back off!

Actually, that leaves McNair at Westfield and doesn't give any more title I to the already burdened Title I South lakes and HErndon . . . .

. . in response to Word. . . .

we are just fine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In regards to your comment that Navy would be
> united...............a majority of the students
> and parents whose children attend Navy, FMS and
> then Chantilly are more than happy with our
> current school placements. Having my teenage
> child drive 6.9 miles on unsafe roads to go to
> Oakton vs. driving 2.4 miles to CHS is NOT
> acceptable at all. We love Chantilly High School
> and will continue to advocate for our studnets to
> continue to attend. Unless you attend any of
> these schools...........back off!

I feel there are some folks willing to throw others under the bus for their own gain. . . however, I do NOT believe that any student in any way shape or form should every be forced to drive a longer distance to another high school. If any school or neighborhood fits this description because of boundary options, then the option should be thrown away.

McNair will be removed from Westfield. Part of it will go to south lakes, the other part (aka coppermine) will go to herndon.

Try as you will to avoid it, but this will definitely happen. I'd put money on it.

Hmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we are just fine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In regards to your comment that Navy would be
> > united...............a majority of the students
> > and parents whose children attend Navy, FMS and
> > then Chantilly are more than happy with our
> > current school placements. Having my teenage
> > child drive 6.9 miles on unsafe roads to go to
> > Oakton vs. driving 2.4 miles to CHS is NOT
> > acceptable at all. We love Chantilly High
> School
> > and will continue to advocate for our studnets
> to
> > continue to attend. Unless you attend any of
> > these schools...........back off!
>
> I feel there are some folks willing to throw
> others under the bus for their own gain. . .
> however, I do NOT believe that any student in any
> way shape or form should every be forced to drive
> a longer distance to another high school. If any
> school or neighborhood fits this description
> because of boundary options, then the option
> should be thrown away.

Which would then eliminate 2 (Oak Hill) , 3 (Navy) and 4 (Armstrong). But I agree with you anyway.

Exactly - option 1 is the most likely, but no option is even more likely . . .

Why FLS, or any schools outside of SLH have to be the prey? What happened to 500+ pupil placement OUT of SLH? What is the county doing by spending 8.7M taxpayers money to expand WFH capacity permanently to 3100 and claim well, it needs to keep the enrollment at close to 2000?
Hmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly - option 1 is the most likely, but no
> option is even more likely . . .

senior withsenioritis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have to get rid of those who give bad name to
> South Lakes. I'm a senior and I'm sick of those
> poseurs,fakes,and wannabes rich kids (sadly, black
> people). They live on food stamps, although there
> always seems to have enough cash for expensive
> clothes, shoes, ipod, and cell phones. They don't
> care about education; Mostly they care about how
> to look "fresh".
> We need some Oakton students so we can improve in
> many aspects. Did you see the complete list of
> the 1,300 top U.S. schools for 2007?
> That list is bad for us, because we didn't
> improve,we went from 623 to 859 for god sake!!!!!
> check the VA list
> http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380/?sort=State&count
> =1351&Search=&start=1200&limit=100&year=2007&
>
> I admit, Oalton is better.

WOW you're really ignorant if you do go to south lakes i'm pretty sure you don't interact with the african american kids because i don't think anyone is using food stamps.

I admit, YOU ARE A DUMBASS.

Floris/McNair has a lot of undeveloped land in their area. This will continue to be a HOT growth area. This, combined with the SLHS need for students today sends a clear message. You can say it's not fair to be redistricted again but there will even be another round down the road. When???

Floris should embrace SLHS as their destiny...it should have happened a long time ago. You can't "buy a house near a busy intersection and complain about the noise". Floris is an awsome school and combined with Fox Mill will make Southlakes on par with any other in the area.

It's not a matter of trying to send another school in your place...you simpply have no where else to go.

As said before, don't speak for FLS, if you are not from there. Where's your numbers coming from about FLS's "big growth" -- The vast open area in FLS boundary is the Dulles Airport. According to Fairfax County's own projection, WFH is at capacity and will be under capacity down the road.

Please stop pumping FLS wanting to go to SL. If you went to last night's meeting, you'll know. What's wrong w/ FLS location and why is it ok with Langley's island IN Reston? FLS is the victim when there's a need to pick up some so-called "adavantaged" kids.

Thought Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris/McNair has a lot of undeveloped land in
> their area. This will continue to be a HOT growth
> area. This, combined with the SLHS need for
> students today sends a clear message. You can say
> it's not fair to be redistricted again but there
> will even be another round down the road. When???
>
>
> Floris should embrace SLHS as their destiny...it
> should have happened a long time ago. You can't
> "buy a house near a busy intersection and complain
> about the noise". Floris is an awsome school and
> combined with Fox Mill will make Southlakes on par
> with any other in the area.
>
> It's not a matter of trying to send another school
> in your place...you simpply have no where else to
> go.

>>>Is it possible to send Oak Hill and Floris to South lakes?<<<

I don't think so because students from those schools would have to drive through Fox Mill district to get to South Lakes.

Hmmm is correct, there is no way to make this work, no way to substantially reduce the poverty rate at South Lakes. There just aren't enough areas in play, and their own rules prevent many options, including the no islands rule. They've really boxed themselves into a corner.

Word said:

>>> McNair will be removed from Westfield. Part of it will go to south lakes, the other part (aka coppermine) will go to herndon.

Try as you will to avoid it, but this will definitely happen. I'd put money on it.<<<

Agree. I don't see any way around that without making some part of McNair an island and they cannot do that, by their own rules.

Hmmm,
Can you tell us why you said this?
>>>option 1 is the most likely, but no option is even more likely<<<

I too thought option #1 was most likely, but the majority at the meeting clearly preferred #3. Are you saying that there will be 'no option' at some point? No one will move to South Lakes? If so, why do you think that? Needless to say, Many here are hoping that you are right.

blownnn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> senior withsenioritis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We have to get rid of those who give bad name
> to
> > South Lakes. I'm a senior and I'm sick of those
> > poseurs,fakes,and wannabes rich kids (sadly,
> black
> > people). They live on food stamps, although
> there
> > always seems to have enough cash for expensive
> > clothes, shoes, ipod, and cell phones. They
> don't
> > care about education; Mostly they care about
> how
> > to look "fresh".
> > We need some Oakton students so we can improve
> in
> > many aspects. Did you see the complete list of
> > the 1,300 top U.S. schools for 2007?
> > That list is bad for us, because we didn't
> > improve,we went from 623 to 859 for god
> sake!!!!!
> > check the VA list
> >
> http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380/?sort=State&count
>
> > =1351&Search=&start=1200&limit=100&year=2007&
> >
> > I admit, Oalton is better.
>
> WOW you're really ignorant if you do go to south
> lakes i'm pretty sure you don't interact with the
> african american kids because i don't think anyone
> is using food stamps.
>
> I admit, YOU ARE A DUMBASS.


No one is using food stamps? Um, that's what the whole free and reduced lunch program is. The welfare recipients aren't the kids in the big, fancy houses. Granted it is not their fault that their parent(s) sits on their ass with their hand out waiting for their government check because they're too lazy to get off their rears and get an education and a job. Sadly, the welfare mentality is contagious. Hopefully those project kids will aspire to be more than another loser on welfare sucking up my tax dollars.

>>>Fox Mill and some East Floris (soon to be just Floris after Coppermine takes West McNair and West Floris) parents DO want to come to SL. It's hard to have your kid shine in a school of over 3000!<<<

REally? Fox Mill and Floris parents in my group definitely did NOT want to go to South Lakes. Floris parents views were also expressed when most groups chose option #3.

Neen you ignorant SLUT! Clearly you have no idea at ALL what you are talking about and should get a lobotomy! Then you can take up your true calling as president of the MEade Skelton fan club. Ask youself. what WOULDNT jesus do?

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why FLS, or any schools outside of SLH have to be
> the prey? What happened to 500+ pupil placement
> OUT of SLH? What is the county doing by spending
> 8.7M taxpayers money to expand WFH capacity
> permanently to 3100 and claim well, it needs to
> keep the enrollment at close to 2000?


Where'd you get that number of 500? 99 kids pupil placed in and less pupil placed out.

I teach in FCPS. I have read a number of interesting posts on this thread, but your opinions will not be heard here. If you just want to vent, knock yourself out. If you want to have a say in the matter, you better attend the town hall meetings and post on the actual FCPS webpage:

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/

Click the link to submit your suggestions, and view the scenarios they have posted.

I don't understand Neen's obsession with the 'rules' that the County made as part of their criteria. They said they would like to eliminate islands, as much as is possible. It they proposed a plan that is bad for the socio-economic balance at not just one, but two schools, and which widens the disparity between the most privileged and the least privileged schools, then perhaps some rules will have to be 'broken."

Incidentally, there was not one McNair parent in my group or in that of many of my SL peers. Who is speaking for them in this? From whats been reported from the attendees I know, the few McNair parents who attended last night don't want to leave Westfield. It's funny, I have read very few other Westfield, Oakton, or Chantilly parents complain about the unfairness of sending McNair to South Lakes and Herndon. Is it because they are also just looking out for their own best interests, just like South Lakes parents are being accused? And because they know that McNair has a small voice? Think about it.

So...people think we are filthy rich? Get a grip of yourselves! We are working parents that happened to live in the Floris area for the last fifteen years...so the house has tripled in value thanks for the "mansions" not because we have money to spare. I do commute to Reston for job reasons, and it takes me longer to drive around it than going to DC via 980 and metro around 7:00 a.m. I truly object to the label of "advantaged" kids, heck no! If Stu would've been more proactive in his community years ago, instead of his self-serving interests, people would be moving to Reston in a heartbeat. The people that I know in Reston send their kids to private school....gee I wonder why?

To SLPTA: I understand your issues, however, don't try to force my kids going there, Appeal to the powers that be--school board--and try to get more money for teachers and offerings.,,,you have the right to get it, but not at the expense of a neighborhood that doesn't want it. Redistricting will not solve your problems.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand Neen's obsession with the
> 'rules' that the County made as part of their
> criteria. They said they would like to eliminate
> islands, as much as is possible. It they proposed
> a plan that is bad for the socio-economic balance
> at not just one, but two schools, and which widens
> the disparity between the most privileged and the
> least privileged schools, then perhaps some rules
> will have to be 'broken."

The criteria need to be simplified. Eliminating islands is one of the weakest. Its not that much different from proximity (already a criteria), for starters. Secondly, keeping community intact is more important. Some communities can't be moved easily due to the numbers involved. If an island ends up being created, as long as proximity is (very) reasonable, it shouldn't be that much of an issue (assuming redistricting is the answer - which its not in my opinion).
(Also I wouldnt agree that MI is a true island and due to the numbers involved they should not be under consideration).

Socio-economics is another poor criteria. You can argue what makes sense here all day long, everyone has different opinions on this. It would be easier to sort out the middle-east situation. The bottom line is you have to make do with what you have and make it work. The School Board shouldn't be responsible for socio-economic balance. You are responsible for where you choose to live and what schools you will attend. If more resources are needed at a school to make it work then so be it.

Having said that I am not 100% opposed to any potential solution, if extreme circumstances are documented - however, this is not what I am seeing in this case.

>
> Incidentally, there was not one McNair parent in
> my group or in that of many of my SL peers. Who
> is speaking for them in this? From whats been
> reported from the attendees I know, the few McNair
> parents who attended last night don't want to
> leave Westfield. It's funny, I have read very few
> other Westfield, Oakton, or Chantilly parents
> complain about the unfairness of sending McNair to
> South Lakes and Herndon. Is it because they are
> also just looking out for their own best
> interests, just like South Lakes parents are being
> accused? And because they know that McNair has a
> small voice? Think about it.

I think its unfair to send/break up McNair. Its true I didn't see anyone there last night to speak up for them, but I will say it was clear last night that most groups were much more concerned about protecting their own interests than at the previous meeting. This will likely continue to progress as we draw closer to a decision. McNair folks will need to speak up if they have concerns.

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why FLS, or any schools outside of SLH have to
> be
> > the prey? What happened to 500+ pupil placement
> > OUT of SLH? What is the county doing by
> spending
> > 8.7M taxpayers money to expand WFH capacity
> > permanently to 3100 and claim well, it needs to
> > keep the enrollment at close to 2000?
>
>
> Where'd you get that number of 500? 99 kids pupil
> placed in and less pupil placed out.


For 2005-06, Net= (-185 students) -12% (a 12% decrease in students...)
For 2006-07, Net= (-178) -12%To date
2007-08, = (-159) -11%

Now the tricky part, many pupil placement is for 9th graders for their 4 years high school. And you can do the math.

All options presented improve the ESOL/Free Lunch at SLHS. The numbers are right on the options. So stop your petulant whining about McNair.

The idea of making McNair and island and busing them around the county to make stats look better is absurd. Makes about as much sense as busing Dogwood to Langley. How would the Dogwood people like that? Probably about as much as the McNair people.

SL is not looking out for McNair. They're looking out for themselves.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get it right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Floris Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Why FLS, or any schools outside of SLH have
> to
> > be
> > > the prey? What happened to 500+ pupil
> placement
> > > OUT of SLH? What is the county doing by
> > spending
> > > 8.7M taxpayers money to expand WFH capacity
> > > permanently to 3100 and claim well, it needs
> to
> > > keep the enrollment at close to 2000?
> >
> >
> > Where'd you get that number of 500? 99 kids
> pupil
> > placed in and less pupil placed out.
>
>
> For 2005-06, Net= (-185 students) -12% (a 12%
> decrease in students...)
> For 2006-07, Net= (-178) -12%To date
> 2007-08, = (-159) -11%
>
> Now the tricky part, many pupil placement is for
> 9th graders for their 4 years high school. And you
> can do the math.


Interesting numbers and twist on things - where did you find them? I'd be interested in doing a little further research . . .

mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
McNair
> folks will need to speak up if they have concerns.

Therein lies their problem. Many of them are disadvantaged socio-economically or language-wise and they will never have the voice that you or I have.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> McNair
> > folks will need to speak up if they have
> concerns.
>
> Therein lies their problem. Many of them are
> disadvantaged socio-economically or language-wise
> and they will never have the voice that you or I
> have.

I can understand if you don't speak English, but not sure what economics has to do with showing up for a meeting, organizing or supplying an opinion. There are strong political movements in a lot poorer places, I think.

But, not to worry, I will continue to oppose redistricting for all groups until Fairfax County can institute a more reasonable, simplified process.

Mr. H Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I teach in FCPS. I have read a number of
> interesting posts on this thread, but your
> opinions will not be heard here. If you just want
> to vent, knock yourself out. If you want to have
> a say in the matter, you better attend the town
> hall meetings and post on the actual FCPS webpage:
>
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/


Many of us are battle scarred boundary process veterans. FYI the school board members [I distinctly remember Brad Center] referring to the internet message boards]. What goes into FCPS does not come out...emailing them is a waste of bandwidth. You are not dealing with an honorable organization- if you were then detailed numbers on areas would have been provided. These are not all nice people.

The board cares about keeping it's constituents happy - scenarios move Mcnair [located in Hunter Mill] out of the Sully school Westfield. I ask why was it there to begin with? Hunter Mill and Dranesville could have colluded YEARS ago to move Aldrin and Armstrong into South Lakes making room for Mcnair and possibly some of Floris at Herndon. Now I wonder why more near Westfield can't be moved out of Chantilly. What happened? FCPS built the Westfield addition for Mcnair etc so Aldrin etc would not have to go to South Lakes?

Any school system that would even present the Oak Hill to Oakton move is just plain odd. They are wasting the public's time in a charade.

http://www.arlingtonconnection.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=14732&paper=73&cat=106

back in 2003 :

SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS Rita Thompson and Mychele Brickner, both at-large members, without mentioning the words “boundary change,” suggested the School Board should be looking at reapportioning the attendance areas to address the overcrowding of some schools, while others are underenrolled. The pair did not find support among their fellow members.
"We have overcapacity at Westfield and overcapacity at Langley, and we're under capacity at South Lakes. I understand the political ramifications, but we are responsible to all the taxpayers to show we are being responsible with their money, and we aren't trying to address this," Brickner said.
"A lot of people choose where to live based on the high schools where they live. It has been suggested before that all of Reston should go to South Lakes. North Point Village doesn't want to go to South Lakes. I love South Lakes. I have a daughter who went there and another that is going to graduate from there, but North Point Village doesn't want to go there," said Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill). "If someone wants to go out in the community and float the idea of a boundary change, go ahead, but I for one will not be supporting that measure."

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmm,
> Can you tell us why you said this?
> >>>option 1 is the most likely, but no option is
> even more likely<<<
>
> I too thought option #1 was most likely, but the
> majority at the meeting clearly preferred #3. Are
> you saying that there will be 'no option' at some
> point? No one will move to South Lakes? If so,
> why do you think that? Needless to say, Many here
> are hoping that you are right.

Neen,

Option 1 addresses the overcrowded Westfield, the overcrowded Chantilly, and the under enrolled South Lakes while moving the fewest areas possible AND without sending anyone way down the road. I realize that Oak Hill is closer to Chantilly, BUT, seems to be the farthest in that boundary (I know they are close by back roads, I've driven it many times . . however, Westfield is a good school and I think that it makes more sense for Oak Hill to join Westfield then Oakton - also a good school) . . . . absolutely no logical or fair solution to the Chantilly problem due to Westfield having the same problem. . . I say problem as this is one stated by the county.

It does send McNair to Herndon and South Lakes, which I think is a deal breaker, but do to the constraints of this limited boundary study, there are no other choices and Herndon and South lakes will always be more diverse than their neighboring schools.

McNair and Floris are getting stuck because of their location. Do I think it is good for McNair to go to South Lakes or Herndon? No, I do not. They know it, too. . . their kids have a better shot at doing well in High School staying at Westfield - not by joining the rest of the Title I schools in the two most diverse schools in the western part of the county.

But, there is no other way to relieve Westfield since Centreville is off limits. It has occurred to me that due to the fact that the actual buildings are so far apart, yet some are on top of each other has not helped, either.

I feel that no option is what is going to happen as in "no option we've seen so far". . . sorry, I'd love to say that I have inside knowledge that everyone can get back to their lives and stop worrying about their families and children, but I simply meant that no options from the Dec. 3rd meeting, in my opinion, will surface for the next round.

Over the past few days I have seen several folks quote portions of the few e-mails I wrote a couple of weeks ago. What I find interesting is that those folks who are doing so represent both proponents and opponents of redistricting. Thank you all for not attacking my position, but in general treating it with respect!

Everyone has a personal agenda, and there is nothing wrong with that, With all of the different opinions expressed, the common ground seems to be that the Board should do what is best for the students (not one group, not a school). Here is a thought ...

The current arguments are focused on how best to redistribute pieces of a fixed pie. I argue that there are intelligent ways to make the pie bigger, and then better distribute it. Maybe some folks want to focus on this as opposed to the options.

Such as . . .

>>>>I simply meant that no options from the Dec. 3rd meeting, in my opinion, will surface for the next round.<<<<

I tend to agree, based on what Tistadt said several times. I suspect that they will have to violate their own established rules to do it. They will create more split feeders and/or islands and establish a new scenario that we've never seen and no one has commented on. Once again, they will ignore what the public wanted at the public meeting. Why do they bother with these meetings, only to continue to ignore what comes out of the meetings? It only makes people more angry when they waste two evenings going to the meetings only to have their wants ignored.

This process is simply awful. Flawed from start to finish.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All options presented improve the ESOL/Free Lunch
> at SLHS. The numbers are right on the options. So
> stop your petulant whining about McNair.
>
> The idea of making McNair and island and busing
> them around the county to make stats look better
> is absurd. Makes about as much sense as busing
> Dogwood to Langley. How would the Dogwood people
> like that? Probably about as much as the McNair
> people.
>
> SL is not looking out for McNair. They're looking
> out for themselves.

Does it improve the numbers to even near the level of your school? Until the numbers are brought down to near the county average, parents will pupil place out and the school will not recover. If you doubt it, read back over the 'come hell or high water' posts on this thread.

And taxpayer is right about Westfield. If the County had had the courage to deal with SL's under-enrollment before Westfield was built, WEstfield could have been a standard-sized school. I guess they didn't have the stomach for fighting the parents who would have protested even more loudly back then. Think about it: South Lakes has a great principal now, a beautiful facility, and an energized base. Back then, they had a lousy County appointed principal, an outdated facility, and a demoralized base.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> This process is simply awful. Flawed from start
> to finish.

How would you change it, if you don't mind me asking?

#1 - Gibson violating the students/parent right of privacy must be investigated fully and no decision made until he is cleared of this potential wrong doing. Or at least he get no vote. And if he can't vote Kathy can't make a decision without him.

#2 - Identify the "advantaged" kids that the PTSA from SLHS wants. List the qualifications to be considered for "advantaged" status. I need to know this in case any IVY league schools ask my kids.

#3 - What is scenerio #5

#4 - NBC reported none of these scenerios were going to be adapted by the school board. Stu can you elaborate on this please? Stu... STU.. Stu...

Wow. I really can't wait until they approve this thing and your kids come home and say how you were wrong about South Lakes. And do not say they won't do anything about this because they will! I don't this FCPS would just do this for fun.

Last night was not a public meeting. It WAS an example of how a socialist government operates. Following the advice of highly paid consultants, psychologists, etc., the socialist school board did the following:

1. They hid behind a screen, speaking to the citizens, via monitors, placed around the school.

2. Most people behave like sheep and willingly obey orders, so it was easy to lead them into controlled rooms. Sheep arriving together were placed in separate rooms.

3. To maintain total control, a bouncer (don't know the socialist euphemism for this word) was installed in each room, ready to assist the facilitator should one of the sheep resist.

4. Each sheep was REQUIRED to wear a name tag and REQUIRED to introduce himself to the facilitator. A sheep not following these rules or any of the rules would be told to leave.

5. Sheep were forbidden to protest the socialists' Grand Plan for Socio-Economic Balancing, and those who did were ridiculed by the 'bouncer' and handled by the facilitator.

The Fairfax County School Board was successful in preventing opposition to its plan by forbidding an individual the right to free speech. Given the overall acceptance of socialist principles in this county, they will reign for many years to come.

"By bringing the whole life under the control of the state, socialism necessarily gives power to an inner ring of bureaucrats, who in almost every case will be men who want power for its own sake and will stop at nothing in order to retain it"

--Orwell 1944

mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > mike Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > McNair
> > > folks will need to speak up if they have
> > concerns.
> >
> > Therein lies their problem. Many of them are
> > disadvantaged socio-economically or
> language-wise
> > and they will never have the voice that you or
> I
> > have.
>
> I can understand if you don't speak English, but
> not sure what economics has to do with showing up
> for a meeting, organizing or supplying an opinion.
> There are strong political movements in a lot
> poorer places, I think.
>
> But, not to worry, I will continue to oppose
> redistricting for all groups until Fairfax County
> can institute a more reasonable, simplified
> process.

Also, a lot of (not all, I know) McNair people are transient.

I don't know if I mentioned this today or not, but my room was very unified on the idea of a magnet.

SubmissiveWiiRNot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Incidentally, there was not one McNair parent in
> my group or in that of many of my SL peers. Who
> is speaking for them in this? From whats been
> reported from the attendees I know, the few McNair
> parents who attended last night don't want to
> leave Westfield. It's funny, I have read very few
> other Westfield, Oakton, or Chantilly parents
> complain about the unfairness of sending McNair to
> South Lakes and Herndon. Is it because they are
> also just looking out for their own best
> interests, just like South Lakes parents are being
> accused? And because they know that McNair has a
> small voice? Think about it.



I don't think anyone wants McNair to have a small voice. I think the reality of the situation is that McNair is in a poor geographical location with regards to the schools being addressed in the study. They are the farthest school from Westfield, and if Westfield is overcrowded, someone has to leave.

There will be further changes in the McNair/Floris/Coppermine area - that cannot be stopped due to further development. It will not be able to stay the way it is no matter how many of us sympathize with the situation of the various folks who live there.

I would glady vote for more school funds to go to help the kids at McNair and Dogwood rather than have had the money spent for additions at Westfield and Langley that were not needed.

Birdlover, you sure know a lot about the meeting for someone who was posting here between 7 and 8pm last night? Thanks for filling us in, though.

BTW, you must need new glasses. I am a very tall, thin man and I arrived at 6:30, not 7:25. Padre is the large woman. Wii served some awesome vegan food, and he had kumbiyah blaring from his Yugo speakers. His car had stickers from South Lakes, Standford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and a Rhodes Scholar sticker as well. It was totally cool, and so was the meeting.

> I would glady vote for more school funds to go to help the kids at McNair and Dogwood rather than have had the money spent for additions at Westfield and Langley that were not needed.

Let's not forget about the remodel job at South Lakes - totally unnecessary