Sorceror's Apprentice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen does not seem to understand that the parents
> redistricted to South Lakes will have input into
> the curriculum. They will have the power, not the
> evil SL PTSA. I'll bet that Neen squawked a bunch
> at TJ and also at Madison to drive the curriculum
> for her children. I'll bet she wielded her power
> for all it was worth. Now she wants make parents
> redistricted to South Lakes think that they will
> have to turn into nanny-statist lemmings, because
> the evil SL PTSA will not share any marbles and
> they will have to just shut up and take what they
> are spoon fed.

For 7 years the parents of SL tried to get rid of a completely dysfunctional principal to no avail. Only when he was threatened with the withholding of the Democratic Party endorsement did Gibson finally take action to save SL.

Many parents (but not the SLPTSA leadership or the South Lakes Boundary Study Group) have questioned the efficacy and suitablility of IB for the bulk of the SL student body as compared to AP, i.e. that AP is a better fit for more kids at South Lakes.

Yet those groups, Butler, Goodman and Gibson refuse to consider an open and honest exploration of that question. Anyone wishing to examine this question is ridiculed, derided and ostracized by SLPTSA leadership and the South Lakes Boundary Study.

Butler is not perfect. There have been at least a dozen problems that have been documented on these pages that he has caused or refused to addressed. Yet again anyone wishing to examine these questions is ridiculed, derided and ostracized by the same people.

Repeatedly on these pages Butler and SL promoters have been asked to described in detail what he has done to improve the school other than not being Railly. There have been less than 4 responses to that solicitation but repeated vague and generalized assertions that things were better.

Given this tract record, how can any assurance of participation in shaping the future of SL made to incoming parents be heard as anything more than an empty promise at best and a cruel hoax at worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 12:47AM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> For 7 years the parents of SL tried to get rid of
> a completely dysfunctional principal to no avail.
> Only when he was threatened with the withholding
> of the Democratic Party endorsement did Gibson
> finally take action to save SL.

Your time line is faulty. Stuart Gibson was re-elected in the fall of 2003. Bruce Butler was hired June 2005. His first year served was 2005/2006. His second year served was 2006/2007. He is now on his third year. So they withheld the endorsement how? It looks like his re-election was not tied to the departure of Rodriguez at all.
>
> Many parents (but not the SLPTSA leadership or the
> South Lakes Boundary Study Group) have questioned
> the efficacy and suitablility of IB for the bulk
> of the SL student body as compared to AP, i.e.
> that AP is a better fit for more kids at South
> Lakes.

You are one of the only parents I have heard questioning the efficacy of IB. If you have others that agree with you, please organize and present your findings. The South Lakes Boundary Group has spoken repeatedly about the merits of adding AP classes to supplement IB.

Anyone wishing to examine this
> question is ridiculed, derided and ostracized by
> SLPTSA leadership and the South Lakes Boundary
> Study.

In what way? I have never heard anyone in the leadership ridicule and deride anyone. I have heard you, though.
>
> Butler is not perfect. There have been at least a
> dozen problems that have been documented on these
> pages that he has caused or refused to addressed.

No principal is perfect, and Bruce is no exception, yet as far as I can tell, you are the only person providing information about problems that Bruce Butler has refused to correct. Until I am convinced that these are not just isolated sour grapes of yours, I will not put any credence in what you say.

> Yet again anyone wishing to examine these
> questions is ridiculed, derided and ostracized by
> the same people.

Yet again, anyone is really just you.
>
> Repeatedly on these pages Butler and SL promoters
> have been asked to described in detail what he has
> done to improve the school other than not being
> Railly. There have been less than 4 responses to
> that solicitation but repeated vague and
> generalized assertions that things were better.

Let's talk about measurable improvements: How's largest gain in the County on SAT scores for improvement? How about gains on SOL scores? How about a 35% jump in the challenge index score, which translates to more IB exams taken?

Let's talk about ones less easily measured but still discernible: increased parent participation, increased attendance at PTSA meetings, increased participation in athletics (e.g., wrestling, lacrosse, volleyball, football), increased school spirit, increased staff satisfaction.

> Given this tract record, how can any assurance of
> participation in shaping the future of SL made to
> incoming parents be heard as anything more than an
> empty promise at best and a cruel hoax at worse.

Perhaps your inability to participate effectively in the process has made you bitter. You have not gained traction for any of your numerous complaints per the usual channels, and have taken last refuge here, where you provide fodder for those least desirous of helping South Lakes.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point is South Lakes is having a hard time
> holding on to it's students for 4 years.
>
> Nice try on the Oakton comparison, but once again
> you are wrong. For the same class we have.
>
> 9th 2004 = 564
> 10th 2005 = 570
> 11th 2006 = 572
> 12th 2007 = 542
>
> That's only 4% at Oakton vs 19% at South Lakes


Most schools will also have a lower headcount for their senior class due to a number of students who graduate early.

>>Jack Dale is viewed as an overwhelmingly mediocre, visionless bureaucrat by almost all the teachers I know and should be removed.<<<

Teachers never like any superintendent, but he's not out to please them. He's pleasing the school board. He works for them, not the teachers or people in this county.

If the schools continue to go down, the SB will look for someone to blame and fire Dr. Dale. That's why most Superintendents don't last more than 3 years, in any school district. Liberals run education. Their policies fail, scores decline, and they must blame someone. Until the liberals have succeeded in eliminating SOLs and NCLB, the evidence of their failures, the pattern of firing the superintendent will continue, across the country.

>>>Most schools will also have a lower headcount for their senior class due to a number of students who graduate early.<<<

Graduate early? I've never known a student in FCPS who did that, although I am sure there must be some. Most kids look forward to senior year and are not anxious to leave their school or their friends. And most parents aren't ready to send their 16 year away to college. Do you have any evidence of more than one or two students leaving a high school because of early graduation?

The numbers generally change from 9th grade to 12th grade because of dropouts.

Sorceror's Apprentice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen does not seem to understand that the parents
> redistricted to South Lakes will have input into
> the curriculum. They will have the power, not the
> evil SL PTSA. I'll bet that Neen squawked a bunch
> at TJ and also at Madison to drive the curriculum
> for her children. I'll bet she wielded her power
> for all it was worth. Now she wants make parents
> redistricted to South Lakes think that they will
> have to turn into nanny-statist lemmings, because
> the evil SL PTSA will not share any marbles and
> they will have to just shut up and take what they
> are spoon fed.

Why would they suddenly have input now when no parents have ever been on the curriculum committee at South Lakes?

And, no, I have never been on any curriculum committee. Never had a need for concern about the curriculum. There were courses and classes that Madison couldn't always offer because not enough kids signed up for them. But that happens at every school.

Sorceror's Apprentice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > For 7 years the parents of SL tried to get rid
> of
> > a completely dysfunctional principal to no
> avail.
> > Only when he was threatened with the
> withholding
> > of the Democratic Party endorsement did Gibson
> > finally take action to save SL.
>
> Your time line is faulty. Stuart Gibson was
> re-elected in the fall of 2003. Bruce Butler was
> hired June 2005. His first year served was
> 2005/2006. His second year served was 2006/2007.
> He is now on his third year. So they withheld the
> endorsement how? It looks like his re-election
> was not tied to the departure of Rodriguez at
> all.

The decision to get rid of Railly was made quite a while before Bruce was selected and just about the time of the 2003 election or shortly thereafter. It took a while to create a job to promote her to so that the firing wasn't actionable.

> > Many parents (but not the SLPTSA leadership or
> the
> > South Lakes Boundary Study Group) have
> questioned
> > the efficacy and suitablility of IB for the
> bulk
> > of the SL student body as compared to AP, i.e.
> > that AP is a better fit for more kids at South
> > Lakes.
>
> You are one of the only parents I have heard
> questioning the efficacy of IB. If you have
> others that agree with you, please organize and
> present your findings. The South Lakes Boundary
> Group has spoken repeatedly about the merits of
> adding AP classes to supplement IB.

Then you are not talking or listening to the parents of SL who aren't on the SLPTSA or the South Lakes Boundary Study Group. Your reaction is exactly the kind of treatment that anyone who doesn't drink the kool aid is subjected to. Classic group think. "The critic is wrong." "The critic is alone"

If I'm alone and wrong, why are you afraid to have an open and honest debate of the efficacy of IB versus AP followed by a plebiscite of the parents of the SL pyramid elementary schools who would be effected by any decision.

I've made that suggestion multiple times on this forum and not one IB advocate has accepted that challenge.

If IB is the best choice, I would be out voted in droves and have every reason to drop the topic.

IB was imposed on SL and not a choice by the SL community.

Retracing the step to get the buy in from community would provide legitimacy for IB.

Rather than engage in that debate you attack, ridicule deride and ostracize the critic.


> Anyone wishing to examine this
> > question is ridiculed, derided and ostracized
> by
> > SLPTSA leadership and the South Lakes Boundary
> > Study.
>
> In what way? I have never heard anyone in the
> leadership ridicule and deride anyone. I have
> heard you, though.

Did you read Ms Cosling's post requiring participants in her Yahoo group to promise not to criticize IB as a condition of participation. That is ostracism.
> >
> > Butler is not perfect. There have been at least
> a
> > dozen problems that have been documented on
> these
> > pages that he has caused or refused to
> addressed.
>
> No principal is perfect, and Bruce is no
> exception, yet as far as I can tell, you are the
> only person providing information about problems
> that Bruce Butler has refused to correct. Until I
> am convinced that these are not just isolated sour
> grapes of yours, I will not put any credence in
> what you say.

The issues raised came from multiple families some of whom moved out of the SL attendance area because of their dissatisfaction with Bruce's actions and thus contributed to the underenrollment at SL. They're all wrong and just isolated sour grapes. Once again you attack the messengers and not the substance of the complaints.

> > Yet again anyone wishing to examine these
> > questions is ridiculed, derided and ostracized
> by
> > the same people.
>
> Yet again, anyone is really just you.

You're wrong. But again attack the messenger not the problem.

> > Repeatedly on these pages Butler and SL
> promoters
> > have been asked to described in detail what he
> has
> > done to improve the school other than not being
> > Railly. There have been less than 4 responses
> to
> > that solicitation but repeated vague and
> > generalized assertions that things were better.
>
> Let's talk about measurable improvements: How's
> largest gain in the County on SAT scores for
> improvement? How about gains on SOL scores? How
> about a 35% jump in the challenge index score,
> which translates to more IB exams taken?

If you've read any of the prior posts, you'd know that the College Board will tell anyone that aggregating SAT scores for schools is not scientifically valid since the SAT is designed only to forecast the relative success of high school seniors during their first year of college. Many college admission folks, including the entire California university system, have concluded that the SAT have failed in this predictive function and are now just a surrogate for socio-economic status of the students family with little predictive value for success during college freshman year.

The challenge index is no more valid than the US News and World Reports ranking of colleges. The challenge idex is Jay Matthews parlor game that he hopes to market into another book.

Since, as you point out, Bruce has only been there for two full years and the SATs and challenge test were taken by students whose first two years were under Railly wouldn't you agree that she should get at least partial credit for the improvement?

> Let's talk about ones less easily measured but
> still discernible: increased parent
> participation, increased attendance at PTSA
> meetings, increased participation in athletics
> (e.g., wrestling, lacrosse, volleyball, football),
> increased school spirit, increased staff
> satisfaction.

Increased parent participation is measurable. Verify. but this is a surrogate for Bruce not being Railly.

Increase participation at PTSA meetings is also measurable. Verify. My observations is contrary to this assertion.

Increased participation in athletics is also quantifiable. Verify.

Increased school spirit. This is a perfect example of the vague generalities we've read before. I go to many school events and do not see a significant change in the kids support for each other. In fact their support for each other during the Reign of Terror was one of the most inspiring demonstrations I ever seen short of Marshall after the plane crash or VTEch after the shooting.

> > Given this tract record, how can any assurance
> of
> > participation in shaping the future of SL made
> to
> > incoming parents be heard as anything more than
> an
> > empty promise at best and a cruel hoax at
> worse.
>
> Perhaps your inability to participate effectively
> in the process has made you bitter. You have not
> gained traction for any of your numerous
> complaints per the usual channels, and have taken
> last refuge here, where you provide fodder for
> those least desirous of helping South Lakes.

Again, attack the messenger. But that's the whole point, if persistent attempts to address SL problems by a father of 4 SL students over 11 years is ineffective what hope can the redistricted families have of being listened to.

Your response has proven my point better than I could have hoped for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 02:51AM by Thomas More.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Most schools will also have a lower headcount
> for their senior class due to a number of students
> who graduate early.<<<
>
> Graduate early? I've never known a student in
> FCPS who did that, although I am sure there must
> be some. Most kids look forward to senior year
> and are not anxious to leave their school or their
> friends. And most parents aren't ready to send
> their 16 year away to college. Do you have any
> evidence of more than one or two students leaving
> a high school because of early graduation?
>
> The numbers generally change from 9th grade to
> 12th grade because of dropouts.


I can think of six people off the top of my head that I personally knew who graduated early. I only needed three classes for graduation my senior year. Had I only needed two, I would have gone to summer school and skipped my senior year, too. Most finished their last class or two in summer school after junior year, and one went to Bryant Adult Ed to finish early. One joined the Army, one slacked off to watch tv and smoke pot all day for about six months before going to NOVA (who is actually incredibly successful today), one went to VCU, one went to Mason or Tech (I don't remember which) one went directly to NOVA, and another went to work. I'm confident there were many more.

You're right -- most people DO look forward to their senior year, prom, and all the festivities that go along with being a senior. Then there are the others. Generally you will find early grads are not super thrilled about the entire high school experience and just want to be done with it. Graduating early is a lot better than dropping out and getting their GED (or not).

That being said, I am not in any way trying to discredit your comment about dropouts. I was simply stating that some of those numbers are not dropouts and occur at every school.

I just finished listening to the mp3 file on the BoardDocs website for the January 10 school board meeting. It's worth a listen if you didn't see the meeting. Here are a few sound bites that I thought were interesting:

The staff (Tistadt?) gave a preamble defending the scope of the study and why South Lakes was different from other small high schools. He said that Marshall and Falls Church HS need to preserve their space (and Marshall may need to expand) to accommodate growth in the Tysons Corner area.

The only thing I heard Jane Strauss ask was why the staff wanted to move the Madison Island to Sunrise Valley ES, when this would overcrowd the school (staff's answer was that it was closer to the island than Wolftrap ES). At the very end of the meeting, she said that the last time the county did a county-wide redistricting, it was bitter and very very difficult.

Stu Gibson talked about the Madison Island and asked the staff to report on every administrative boundary change that had been made to move areas into Hughes/South Lakes from the Madison pyramid in the past (at least, that's what I think he was asking for). Regarding crowding of Sunrise Valley, he said that Terraset ES is seriously underenrolled, and made cryptic comments to the effect that he thought the obvious solution was to redistrict kids to Terraset, except that it would create a new attendance island. He asked the staff to talk about that at the upcoming school board work session.

Tina Hone spoke in support of the Madison Islanders, questioned why a moratorium wasn't an option, and said she was "troubled by the study". James Raney seconded her thoughts, saying that they should consider delaying a year or two to rethink the scope and criteria of the study to make sure they get it right. He also added the comment that a magnet school would act as a "carrot" to encourage people to come to South Lakes, as opposed to the "stick" of a boundary change.

Kathy Smith said she "firmly" believed that Westfield and Chantilly need to shrink and agreed with Stu that South Lakes needs to grow, but said she had issues with the staff proposal and would ask about other ways to do this. She mentioned concerns with sending kids to schools that were farther away, so she may have Navy in mind.

Stu then spoke to rebut everything that Hone and Raney said. When he was done, Tina Hone spoke up to say that as an at-large member, she gets to see the inconsistencies in the reasoning applied in different studies, and that just because she supports the goals of the study doesn't mean that she can overlook "procedural justice matters."

Like I said, this is just what I thought was interesting. The whole thing is at: [www.boarddocs.com]

Sorceror's Apprentice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > For 7 years the parents of SL tried to get rid
> of
> > a completely dysfunctional principal to no
> avail.
> > Only when he was threatened with the
> withholding
> > of the Democratic Party endorsement did Gibson
> > finally take action to save SL.
>
> Your time line is faulty. Stuart Gibson was
> re-elected in the fall of 2003. Bruce Butler was
> hired June 2005. His first year served was
> 2005/2006. His second year served was 2006/2007.
> He is now on his third year. So they withheld the
> endorsement how? It looks like his re-election
> was not tied to the departure of Rodriguez at
> all.
> >
> > Many parents (but not the SLPTSA leadership or
> the
> > South Lakes Boundary Study Group) have
> questioned
> > the efficacy and suitablility of IB for the
> bulk
> > of the SL student body as compared to AP, i.e.
> > that AP is a better fit for more kids at South
> > Lakes.
>
> You are one of the only parents I have heard
> questioning the efficacy of IB. If you have
> others that agree with you, please organize and
> present your findings. The South Lakes Boundary
> Group has spoken repeatedly about the merits of
> adding AP classes to supplement IB.
>
>Then, Sorceror, can you please tell us how the "Human Geography" as an AP class can supplement any of the IB courses? Also you mentioned there is a South Lakes Boundary Group so it is really true they came up with #5 in secret to surprise many many of us. I did not hear any of the XXXXXX Boundary Groups in other schools affected by the boundary study. Anyone?

22180 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just finished listening to the mp3 file on the
> BoardDocs website for the January 10 school board
> meeting. It's worth a listen if you didn't see
> the meeting. Here are a few sound bites that I
> thought were interesting:
>
> The staff (Tistadt?) gave a preamble defending the
> scope of the study and why South Lakes was
> different from other small high schools. He said
> that Marshall and Falls Church HS need to preserve
> their space (and Marshall may need to expand) to
> accommodate growth in the Tysons Corner area.
>
> The only thing I heard Jane Strauss ask was why
> the staff wanted to move the Madison Island to
> Sunrise Valley ES, when this would overcrowd the
> school (staff's answer was that it was closer to
> the island than Wolftrap ES). At the very end of
> the meeting, she said that the last time the
> county did a county-wide redistricting, it was
> bitter and very very difficult.
>
> Stu Gibson talked about the Madison Island and
> asked the staff to report on every administrative
> boundary change that had been made to move areas
> into Hughes/South Lakes from the Madison pyramid
> in the past (at least, that's what I think he was
> asking for). Regarding crowding of Sunrise
> Valley, he said that Terraset ES is seriously
> underenrolled, and made cryptic comments to the
> effect that he thought the obvious solution was to
> redistrict kids to Terraset, except that it would
> create a new attendance island. He asked the
> staff to talk about that at the upcoming school
> board work session.
>
> Tina Hone spoke in support of the Madison
> Islanders, questioned why a moratorium wasn't an
> option, and said she was "troubled by the study".
> James Raney seconded her thoughts, saying that
> they should consider delaying a year or two to
> rethink the scope and criteria of the study to
> make sure they get it right. He also added the
> comment that a magnet school would act as a
> "carrot" to encourage people to come to South
> Lakes, as opposed to the "stick" of a boundary
> change.
>
> Kathy Smith said she "firmly" believed that
> Westfield and Chantilly need to shrink and agreed
> with Stu that South Lakes needs to grow, but said
> she had issues with the staff proposal and would
> ask about other ways to do this. She mentioned
> concerns with sending kids to schools that were
> farther away, so she may have Navy in mind.
>
> Stu then spoke to rebut everything that Hone and
> Raney said. When he was done, Tina Hone spoke up
> to say that as an at-large member, she gets to see
> the inconsistencies in the reasoning applied in
> different studies, and that just because she
> supports the goals of the study doesn't mean that
> she can overlook "procedural justice matters."
>
> Like I said, this is just what I thought was
> interesting. The whole thing is at:
> [www.boarddocs.com]
> 2d9cb847ef1cbd87257328006795e4/7154bde74574e5d6852
> 5732b0063c3aa/$FILE/6.01%20Attendance%20Area%20Adj
> ustment.MP3

I read a lot of maps since watching that dialogue. Strauss said the purpose of that county wide was closing schools and there was a citizens committee. Many residences would saty where they are in a county wide but Strauss would have big problems with her Langley feed so of course she would Poo Poo such an endeavor. She had no appointee on the enrollment task force.
The proposed CIp has no suggested boundary change for Spring hill even though a nice dominoe [reverse colvin run including the astronauts would be in order].

I guess Hone has not yet found Strauss' Colvin Run langley development that could [should ?] be at forest edge. Hone has apparently discovered that many of the Madison island students live in the Beulah area not near reston. Guess people also discovered much of Floris and a portion of fox mill are unavoidable for a coppermine process. Brickner and thompson were republicans and therefore blown off but these 2 are Democrats.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Then, Sorceror, can you please tell us how the
> "Human Geography" as an AP class can supplement
> any of the IB courses? Also you mentioned there
> is a South Lakes Boundary Group so it is really
> true they came up with #5 in secret to surprise
> many many of us. I did not hear any of the XXXXXX
> Boundary Groups in other schools affected by the
> boundary study. Anyone?

A slight modification of Baffled's post, remembering that I do not support Option 5 but rather Option 4.

Option 5 was developed in semi-secret i.e., anyone participating in a meeting at SL on 11/28 would have heard about Option 5 as would anyone allowed to participate in Ms. Cosling's yahoo group for the South Lakes Boundary Study Group.

There were obviously meetings, e-mails, telephone conversations etc, to which only a dozen or two folks were privy.

"Neen does not seem to understand that the parents redistricted to South Lakes will have input into the curriculum."

If my child starts there this fall, what impact will I have and when? If the current SL parents haven't been able to get rid of IB, why will a few new parents fare any better? If the majority of the vocal SL parents like IB, then we have no chance at all.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >Then, Sorceror, can you please tell us how the
> > "Human Geography" as an AP class can supplement
> > any of the IB courses? Also you mentioned
> there
> > is a South Lakes Boundary Group so it is really
> > true they came up with #5 in secret to surprise
> > many many of us. I did not hear any of the
> XXXXXX
> > Boundary Groups in other schools affected by
> the
> > boundary study. Anyone?
>
> A slight modification of Baffled's post,
> remembering that I do not support Option 5 but
> rather Option 4.
>
> Option 5 was developed in semi-secret i.e., anyone
> participating in a meeting at SL on 11/28 would
> have heard about Option 5 as would anyone allowed
> to participate in Ms. Cosling's yahoo group for
> the South Lakes Boundary Study Group.
>
> There were obviously meetings, e-mails, telephone
> conversations etc, to which only a dozen or two
> folks were privy.

it's clear SL boundary group was operating under the given that Armstrong and Aldrin could not be moved - not even 1 of them- see tha talking point spread sheet comments. What would I do now in this budget? Move only areas that would not be impacted by coppermine and ignore politics. It is totally irresponsible to not consider those allignmnets when hughes and SL's are across a parking lot. Therefore move Aldrin plus a smaller portion of the Madison Island - not the section by Beulah rd.

Move 100% of middle school Japanese Immersion to Hughes. If the program is really important students will attend. Fox Mill - move the part east of the Parkway plus a very small portion of Crossfield and a very small portion of Floris. That leaves a cushion for South Lakes and a concise efficient boundary that if neighborhoods wish to negotiate might result in a trade for better start times for less grandfathering.

Since much of this process was driven by a static Herndon HS and other limitations not publicized or possibly failing federal litmus tests IMHO all other decisons are best left for another process.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think a lot of this is school/principal
> driven.
> > Thank god for Frank Bensinger, Forest Edge
> > Principal.
>
> Having a principal you like is great and I envy
> you. I liked Mrs. Bradley when she was at
> Terraset and Ms. Jackson at Hughes.
>
> I'm curious though about Forest Edge's low tests
> results compared to other schools in FFX with
> similar demographics.
>
> What does Bensinger say about that and what is he
> doing to help kids who are falling behind?

I made a mistake and need to post a correction.

It's Lake Anne, Dogwood and Terraset that are underpreforming compared to other FCPS elementary schools with similar demographics.

Forest Edge is performing well with demographics that present a challenge. Congratulations to Mr Bensinger.

Hopefully Ms Curry and the principals at Lake Ann and Dogwood are talking to him and the other principals of schools with solid performance and challenging demographics so that their success can be brought to all of Reston's elementary schools

Taxpayer,
Please define boundary and quantity of a small portion of Floris and small portion of Crossfield.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Old Timer Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I think a lot of this is school/principal
> > driven.
> > > Thank god for Frank Bensinger, Forest Edge
> > > Principal.
> >
> > Having a principal you like is great and I envy
> > you. I liked Mrs. Bradley when she was at
> > Terraset and Ms. Jackson at Hughes.
> >
> > I'm curious though about Forest Edge's low
> tests
> > results compared to other schools in FFX with
> > similar demographics.
> >
> > What does Bensinger say about that and what is
> he
> > doing to help kids who are falling behind?
>
> I made a mistake and need to post a correction.
>
> It's Lake Anne, Dogwood and Terraset that are
> underpreforming compared to other FCPS elementary
> schools with similar demographics.
>
> Forest Edge is performing well with demographics
> that present a challenge. Congratulations to Mr
> Bensinger.
>
> Hopefully Ms Curry and the principals at Lake Ann
> and Dogwood are talking to him and the other
> principals of schools with solid performance and
> challenging demographics so that their success can
> be brought to all of Reston's elementary schools


Yes, quoting you and supporting your quote, all Reston school kids go to Reston's high school-South Lakes.
They should.

22180 Wrote:

Thank you for your summary.

> ... staff ... said
> that Marshall and Falls Church HS need to preserve
> their space (and Marshall may need to expand) to
> accommodate growth in the Tysons Corner area.

Falls Church has a capacity of 2,000 and an enrollment of 1,309.

To the Reston experts - Is the high school aged population within the current South Lakes boundaries (regardless of where they attend school) expected to grown, shrink, or remain the same?

> The only thing I heard Jane Strauss ask was why
> the staff wanted to move the Madison Island to
> Sunrise Valley ES, when this would overcrowd the
> school (staff's answer was that it was closer to
> the island than Wolftrap ES). At the very end of
> the meeting, she said that the last time the
> county did a county-wide redistricting, it was
> bitter and very very difficult.

We are back to "No changes will be considered for anyone withing my Dranesville boundaries."

> Kathy Smith said she "firmly" believed that
> Westfield and Chantilly need to shrink ...

Then why didn't she stop the Westfield addition? Is she planning to remove the Chantilly modular and reduce its capacity from 2625 to 2200? Is she planning to make Westfield a secondary school? Any such changes will lead to ANOTHER boundary change so THIS one need to be stopped NOW.

Thomas More Wrote:
> I made a mistake and need to post a correction.

Thank you. Discussion would be much easier (both on this thread and in the real world) if we all admitted and corrected whatever misstatements we inevitably make, and as quickly as possible.

Lake Braddock was built in 1971 with "open classrooms." It was immediately apparent that the concept was a failure. Did they admit it? No, of course not. Seven years later they built South Lakes with the same open classroom concept, and decades of students and staff had to live with the result.

The School Board and staff should admit and correct their mistakes so we can move on. The latest CIP indicates Westfield will have almost 200 empty seats by Sep 2012. It makes no sense to pull some of their students out.

However, to the east, Madison and McLean are both projected to be overcrowded, and Langley and Marshall are both projected to be close to capacity. Logically if additional students are to be redistricted into South Lakes then they should come form the east and north, not south and west.

FME Mom Wrote:
> ... I am not in any way trying to
> discredit your comment about dropouts. I was
> simply stating that some of those numbers are not
> dropouts and occur at every school.

The below numbers show the FOUR year decrease in a particular graduating class (e.g., “Class of 2007”) from September of their freshman year to June of their senior year for the last four years. All data are from the “Membership” numbers posted on the FCPS website.

As others have mentioned, there are many reasons behind these numbers and leaving before graduation is not necessarily “bad.” However, some may find it significant that, for whatever reason, about eighteen percent of Herndon and South Lakes freshmen probably won’t be there to graduate, while at the other high schools in the current boundary discussion that number is closer to five percent.

It should also be noted that in the Class of 2007 the loss rate at Oakton and South Lakes were almost the same, Chantilly was very low, and Herndon very high.

(I am simply posting the data, not trying to explain them.)



Chantilly / Sep FR / Jun SR / Loss %
Class of 2007 / 639 / 637 / 0.31%
Class of 2006 / 605 / 576 / 4.79%
Class of 2005 / 599 / 569 / 5.01%
Class of 2004 / 554 / 494 / 10.83%
4-year total / 2397 / 2276 / 5.05%

Herndon / Sep FR / Jun SR / Loss %
Class of 2007 / 569 / 441 / 22.50%
Class of 2006 / 572 / 473 / 17.31%
Class of 2005 / 579 / 470 / 18.83%
Class of 2004 / 567 / 487 / 14.11%
4-year total / 2287 / 1871 / 18.19%

Langley / Sep FR / Jun SR / Loss %
Class of 2007 / 463 / 436 / 5.83%
Class of 2006 / 460 / 432 / 6.09%
Class of 2005 / 467 / 459 / 1.71%
Class of 2004 / 439 / 424 / 3.42%
4-year total / 1829 / 1751 / 4.26%

Madison / Sep FR / Jun SR / Loss %
Class of 2007 / 458 / 441 / 3.71%
Class of 2006 / 410 / 388 / 5.37%
Class of 2005 / 420 / 380 / 9.52%
Class of 2004 / 347 / 324 / 6.63%
4-year total / 1635 / 1533 / 6.24%

Oakton / Sep FR / Jun SR / Loss %
Class of 2007 / 555 / 490 / 11.71%
Class of 2006 / 520 / 498 / 4.23%
Class of 2005 / 524 / 504 / 3.82%
Class of 2004 / 481 / 492 / -2.29%
4-year total / 2080 / 1984 / 4.62%

South Lakes / Sep FR / Jun SR / Loss %
Class of 2007 / 349 / 308 / 11.75%
Class of 2006 / 369 / 300 / 18.70%
Class of 2005 / 358 / 291 / 18.72%
Class of 2004 / 416 / 334 / 19.71%
4-year total / 1492 / 1233 / 17.36%

Westfield / Sep FR / Jun SR / Loss %
Class of 2007 / 713 / 679 / 4.77%
Class of 2006 / 700 / 654 / 6.57%
Class of 2005 / 667 / 622 / 6.75%
Class of 2004 / 639 / 598 / 6.42%
4-year total / 2719 / 2553 / 6.11%

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 22180 Wrote:
>
> Thank you for your summary.
>
> > ... staff ... said
> > that Marshall and Falls Church HS need to
> preserve
> > their space (and Marshall may need to expand)
> to
> > accommodate growth in the Tysons Corner area.
>
> Falls Church has a capacity of 2,000 and an
> enrollment of 1,309.
>
> To the Reston experts - Is the high school aged
> population within the current South Lakes
> boundaries (regardless of where they attend
> school) expected to grown, shrink, or remain the
> same?
>
> > The only thing I heard Jane Strauss ask was why
> > the staff wanted to move the Madison Island to
> > Sunrise Valley ES, when this would overcrowd
> the
> > school (staff's answer was that it was closer
> to
> > the island than Wolftrap ES). At the very end
> of
> > the meeting, she said that the last time the
> > county did a county-wide redistricting, it was
> > bitter and very very difficult.
>
> We are back to "No changes will be considered for
> anyone withing my Dranesville boundaries."
>
> > Kathy Smith said she "firmly" believed that
> > Westfield and Chantilly need to shrink ...
>
> Then why didn't she stop the Westfield addition?
> Is she planning to remove the Chantilly modular
> and reduce its capacity from 2625 to 2200? Is she
> planning to make Westfield a secondary school? Any
> such changes will lead to ANOTHER boundary change
> so THIS one need to be stopped NOW.

Strauss won't send anyone else to Herndon or to South Lakes. Are her Dranesville constituents all willing to pay for what has become Langley? Let's ask the family living on 60k annually at Hutchison. Is everyone in Hunter Mill willing to pay for Aldrin at herndon and north herndon at Langley?

The way I see it now based on what Smith said we built that addition to hold kids until South Lakes was done, Strauss blocks a county wide for operational efficiency because of Langley, Gibson is actually not the major villain, etc. That's why I'd only move Aldrin plus a part of Fox mill and part of the Madison Island. Some would also chnage for middle school for 2008-09 [Aldrin and the portion of Island]. Crossfield would move in the portion above and excluding Myterry bounded by Lawyer's and Fox mill Rd. need more numbers on the Floris but would only move areas more oriented to Fox Mill Rd or would not be in a boundary process with Mcnair and would only even consider them as a last resort.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> To the Reston experts - Is the high school aged
> population within the current South Lakes
> boundaries (regardless of where they attend
> school) expected to grown, shrink, or remain the
> same?

4251 new dwelling units are in the pipeline right now and more can be anticipated after Metro comes.

HOWEVER, these are mostly garden (ga) and high rise (hr) multi-family dwelling units which have very low rates of high school student generation particularly when compared to single family dwellings (sfd). Base on the high school student generation rates used by FCPS to extract proffers from the builders of these ga and hr units, 120-301 high school kids will be coming to SL from new housing over the next 2-3 years.

There isn't much sfd dirt left in Reston. There is a new sfd subdivision in the Madison Island which has 154 sfd and projects to generate 24 high school kids.

Also see the earlier posts about the low yield of elementary kids to SL. Haven't seen an explanation supported by numbers, just a lot of idle speculation.

Until that phenomenon is understood and reversed, I expect the high school pop from existing Reston homes will continue to fall as Reston couples age in place, after their one or two kids have left for college (Reston's couples were disproportionately adherents of ZPG compared to the rest of the County), rather than turning over empty nest homes to young families.

Reston's existing sfds are smaller than the new houses built in Loudoun and further west and north and thus not as attractive to younger families. The existing sfds have also appreciated to prices that put them beyond the reach of most young families especially in a mortgage market with much tighter underwriting standards. Even modest, starter townhouses reached prices in excess of $400,000 by 2005. No doubt those prices have fallen off but even at $350,000 a family needs an income of $140,000 to think about buying one of those TH, never mind an sfd.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > To the Reston experts - Is the high school aged
> > population within the current South Lakes
> > boundaries (regardless of where they attend
> > school) expected to grown, shrink, or remain
> the
> > same?
>
> 4251 new dwelling units are in the pipeline right
> now and more can be anticipated after Metro
> comes.
>
> HOWEVER, these are mostly garden (ga) and high
> rise (hr) multi-family dwelling units which have
> very low rates of high school student generation
> particularly when compared to single family
> dwellings (sfd). Base on the high school student
> generation rates used by FCPS to extract proffers
> from the builders of these ga and hr units,
> 120-301 high school kids will be coming to SL from
> new housing over the next 2-3 years.
>
> There isn't much sfd dirt left in Reston. There
> is a new sfd subdivision in the Madison Island
> which has 154 sfd and projects to generate 24 high
> school kids.
>
> Also see the earlier posts about the low yield of
> elementary kids to SL. Haven't seen an
> explanation supported by numbers, just a lot of
> idle speculation.
>
> Until that phenomenon is understood and reversed,
> I expect the high school pop from existing Reston
> homes will continue to fall as Reston couples age
> in place, after their one or two kids have left
> for college (Reston's couples were
> disproportionately adherents of ZPG compared to
> the rest of the County), rather than turning over
> empty nest homes to young families.
>
> Reston's existing sfds are smaller than the new
> houses built in Loudoun and further west and north
> and thus not as attractive to younger families.
> The existing sfds have also appreciated to prices
> that put them beyond the reach of most young
> families especially in a mortgage market with much
> tighter underwriting standards. Even modest,
> starter townhouses reached prices in excess of
> $400,000 by 2005. No doubt those prices have
> fallen off but even at $350,000 a family needs an
> income of $140,000 to think about buying one of
> those TH, never mind an sfd.

Thanks again. Any new private/parochial high schools being built or expanded? [This is another factor that FCPS ignores. When I asked why, I was told (1) they don't have access to such data (does the County not know what is bing built?)and (2) "those" students tend to come in from other counties.]

Has the SB considered how many students may be coming to South lakes next year via Pupil Placement? I would guess that with the new state of the art facilities that South Lakes will have, and all of the positive attributes that the SL PTSA has been speaking about with regards to the IB studies, etc., there will be many parents who will be clamoring to get into South Lakes.

I think that with all of the media attention regarding this Boundary Study, many people who may not have been familiar with South Lakes, or those that dismissed South Lakes due to problems that existed in the past, will now consider SL a via option for their childrens education.

The school may pick up a couple of hundred new students, just based on all of the wonderful opportunies that will be available at South Lakes, and therefore, the County SB could just scrap the forced boundary study. I think that South lakes would benifit greatly, because they would be receiving students that "want" to be a part of the unique South Lakes education.

Maybe the South Lakes PTSA can start marketing the school to people, via open houses, ads etc.

Just a thought..

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks again. Any new private/parochial high
> schools being built or expanded?

None

All the FCPS staff have to do to find out about new private high schools is ask the County Zoning and Planning Department or DPW&ES as most new private high schools would require a special exception from the Board of Supervisors or special permit from the Zoning Board of Appeals which P&Z staffs. Public schools go through a similar process called "2232." All new private and public schools have to get a site plan approved which DPW&ES processes. The information is readily available. The FCPS staff is just too lazy to get it.

And the empirical basis for the staff to say "the students at private high schools come from other counties" is what exactly? more lazy bs.

Because all kids are required to attend a school (so we know they aren't slaving away in sweat shops in violation of child labor laws) and the schools enforce the truancy laws, FCPS has to know where all students are enrolled or if they are home schooled.

The information is readily available someone at FCPS just has to want to find it.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has the SB considered how many students may be
> coming to South lakes next year via Pupil
> Placement? I would guess that with the new state
> of the art facilities that South Lakes will have,
> and all of the positive attributes that the SL
> PTSA has been speaking about with regards to the
> IB studies, etc., there will be many parents who
> will be clamoring to get into South Lakes.
>
> I think that with all of the media attention
> regarding this Boundary Study, many people who may
> not have been familiar with South Lakes, or those
> that dismissed South Lakes due to problems that
> existed in the past, will now consider SL a via
> option for their childrens education.
>
> The school may pick up a couple of hundred new
> students, just based on all of the wonderful
> opportunies that will be available at South Lakes,
> and therefore, the County SB could just scrap the
> forced boundary study. I think that South lakes
> would benifit greatly, because they would be
> receiving students that "want" to be a part of the
> unique South Lakes education.
>
> Maybe the South Lakes PTSA can start marketing the
> school to people, via open houses, ads etc.
>
> Just a thought..

From various sources ask if South Lakes has been marketing itself at all middle schools. Has it been to Kilmer and Cooper? They do bus people from Herndon and reston and Western Great Falls to Kilmer. That is the GT center serving much of what normal people would consider part of this boundary process. I doubt FCPS even tries.

One year FCPS was in a gt center boundary process and had a scenario where people were bussed past hughes to carson - anything south lakes related isn't on Strauss' map. Call Hone. Call Raney - he might be interested in the costs of avoiding South Lakes. No one else has been since brickner.

>
> There isn't much sfd dirt left in Reston.
>

From the air, it looks like there is quite a bit of dirt. A little infill development could make it look just like the area a few miles to the west, which feed the Chantilly and Westfield pyramids. That might provide a larger pool of students for SLHS.

22180, thank you for your post on the for the January 10 school board meeting. I just listened to it.

1. I found it most discouraging that one of the "At Large Members" admitted to being "mean" to the Madison Island folks by refusing to visit with them because they "just didn't want to send their kids to South Lakes." This same person called South Lakes a "Crown Jewel of the school system."


I am concerned that someone on the board finds a school with such student attrition, SOL failure rates, yet consistent violence, despite the shrinking school population, to be a "Crown Jewel of the school system."

[I guess from her perspective, South Lakes is doing better than other schools with similar population pools? Frankly, I am under the impression that she wants to "save" South Lakes at any cost and has a low opinion of those who do not agree with her.]

2. Another person, near the beginning of the meeting, talked about equitable redistribution of resources. What does that mean? The students who are "shifted" from one school to the next are going to need the same resources won't they? Is this an economy of scale issue? More students in one school means that the county can purchase more resources for the same money?

I am affraid, perhaps wrongly, that somehow the kids will not get the same benefits they once had at their existing schools, ergo, "equitable redistribution."


3. I was very glad to here on Board member refer to the parents, students, and tax payers as "customers." But his idea of "attracting" people to a school though permotion of programs was shot down --which I found displeasing. Actually, that worries me.

I think Fox Mill district is doomed to be redistricted from Oakton High School after listen to the meeting. I noticed that no one at that meeting talked about speaking with parents from the Fox Mill district either by the way.

This is very sobbering and serious and causing me to think through some things even if my son seems to have been spared from being forced from Oakton High School.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your post to January 10 school board meeting.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorceror's Apprentice Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > For 7 years the parents of SL tried to get
>
> >
> > Let's talk about measurable improvements:
> How's
> > largest gain in the County on SAT scores for
> > improvement?

>
TM & SA -
If you look starting on p. 134, Padre, Verity and I had some discussions over the SL SAT "spectacular increase". Humans are naturally inclined to find patterns even though what they are seeing is pure random noise. When you flip a coin, there are going to be sequences of heads and tails, but the probability is still 50-50.

Three basic points -

1) Turns out the headline number - the SAT average score - was up as advertised, but the prior year was down from the previous year. I wasn't able to find any County press releases advertising that SL had fallen that year... (There isn't random noise in the advertising...)
2) The unadvertised and more useful number - the school median vs the national median - was nearly exactly the same in the 3 years available on the county web site.
3) When you get results that look like 1 & 2, the source of the difference is typically in outliers. And, at SL, there was a documented difference in set of test takers last year. A significantly lower number of students with disabilities took the test last year.

In other words, there was no significant change in the SL SAT scores that can't be explained by changes in the set of kids taking the test.

Verity pointed out what looked like a potential downward trend at Oakton. I agreed that it looked like a potential trend, but there's not enough data to:

1) believe it is an actual trend based on the streaks in random noise problem, or
2) believe that the source of the trend, if it's an actual trend, is

A) actually a result of what's happening at the school (including potential changes in the set of kids taking the test, as point 3 above appears to indicate versus changes in real effects based on e.g. teaching changes),or
B) changes in in the set of kids coming to the school (perhaps some new housing project opened up 10 years ago in the area.)

Addendum: sorry for the spelling and grammar errors by the way. Still too cheap to buy a checker.

Fox Mill Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 22180, thank you for your post on the for the
> January 10 school board meeting. I just listened
> to it.
>
> 1. I found it most discouraging that one of the
> "At Large Members" admitted to being "mean" to the
> Madison Island folks by refusing to visit with
> them because they "just didn't want to send their
> kids to South Lakes." This same person called
> South Lakes a "Crown Jewel of the school system."
>
>
> I am concerned that someone on the board finds a
> school with such student attrition, SOL failure
> rates, yet consistent violence, despite the
> shrinking school population, to be a "Crown Jewel
> of the school system."
>
>
>
> 2. Another person, near the beginning of the
> meeting, talked about equitable redistribution of
> resources. What does that mean? The students who
> are "shifted" from one school to the next are
> going to need the same resources won't they? Is
> this an economy of scale issue? More students in
> one school means that the county can purchase more
> resources for the same money?
>
> I am affraid, perhaps wrongly, that somehow the
> kids will not get the same benefits they once had
> at their existing schools, ergo, "equitable
> redistribution."
>
>
> 3. I was very glad to here on Board member refer
> to the parents, students, and tax payers as
> "customers." But his idea of "attracting" people
> to a school though permotion of programs was shot
> down --which I found displeasing. Actually, that
> worries me.
>
> I think Fox Mill district is doomed to be
> redistricted from Oakton High School after listen
> to the meeting. I noticed that no one at that
> meeting talked about speaking with parents from
> the Fox Mill district either by the way.
>
> This is very sobbering and serious and causing me
> to think through some things even if my son seems
> to have been spared from being forced from Oakton
> High School.
>
> Anyway, thank you for sharing your post to January
> 10 school board meeting.


Thanks, that shows how "arbitrary" these sb members are..however I am sure there have been plenty of private communications between SB members and citizens of communities affected by the redistricting about who should go and who gets to stay, etc. It is all too political and this redistricting is all for the wrong reasons...politics in my opinion.

Baffled,

No one has ever talked to me from the School Board about these changes and I live in a district that appears slated for the change. It is not good. No one has talked to my wife ethier. She is most displeased.

That someone's child should be used a member of a "surge" to save a school without parental consent is most unsetteling to me and my wife.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's Lake Anne, Dogwood and Terraset that are
> underpreforming compared to other FCPS elementary
> schools with similar demographics.
>
>

I'd argue that Dogwood is a special case, that it's school averages are spectacularly useless in evaluating whether Dogwood is underperforming.

If we look at the Dogwood actual area, it's a combination of about 60% very low income housing east of the Parkway and 40% middle/upper middle housing west of it, with absolutely no one in the middle. The result is that the averages and results are entirely unrepresentative of the population there. So, for example, while Dogwood has a headline 30%+ mobility rate, the 30% is really a combination of about 60% mobility and 10% mobility.

In the high impact area, that very high mobility rate also means that the kids test results are even more strongly correlated to their socioeconomics than normal since half of the high impact area kids tested at the end of the year weren't there at the beginning.

Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled,
>
> No one has ever talked to me from the School Board
> about these changes and I live in a district that
> appears slated for the change. It is not good.
> No one has talked to my wife ethier. She is most
> displeased.
>
> That someone's child should be used a member of a
> "surge" to save a school without parental consent
> is most unsetteling to me and my wife.

I understand how you feel and it is a shame how a redistricting process such as this one just plucks a neighborhood..Fox Mill is the only one out of handful of communities that is as a whole slated to go..I did not think it was right either.

Please accept my sincere apology for my comments that have contributed to the hostility surrounding the redistricting issue.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2008 07:48AM by Margie.

Listening to the MP3 on the January 10th meeting, some things popped out. First, Dean Tistadt discussed why other small schools were not having boundary changes. He said that Marshall would be growing because of growth in Tysons Corner area. Sorry, but Tysons area is pretty much built out. More surprising, he says that Marshall will soon be renovated with capacity increased! One can only wonder, why? That property is worth SO much money, and Falls Church is an adjacent school that is under enrolled. Don't make the same mistake again, renovating a school that could easily be closed with students absorbed by neighboring schools! They can't redistrict Falls Church because it is next to Marshall and they are both under enrolled.

Tisdadt says that Langley and Madison weren't considered in South Lakes redistricting because the scope of the study was only to reduce crowding at Westfield and Chantilly and increase enrollment at South Lakes. The school board decided that, not staff.

Stu discussed past administrative boundary changes from Madison to South Lakes. It sounded like if the Madison Island was withdrawn from this boundary study, Stu would advocate for an administrative boundary change with the same result.

Tina Hone asked why not a county wide boundary study. She also sounded opposed to sending the Island to South Lakes.

Raney agreed with everything Hone said. Doesn't think that Madison Island is an island because of a zone of commercial. He and Hone thought the map was very misleading. Both Raney and Hone wanted to know why a moratorium couldn't be considered. Raney wanted to know if the boundary change would increase costs during this budget crunch. He's concerned about the limits of this boundary study. He wants to consider a moratorium, a step back for a year or two. Projections at Westfield and Chantilly show problems will correct themselves. Customers need to see the business case for whatever decision we're going to make. Customers want a non boundary solution. Raney wants a solution to the program problems at South Lakes. Doesn't want to solve a program problem with facilities solution. (Great point!)

Smith believes that we must get students out of Westfield. Her children go to Chantilly so she believes firmly in moving students out of Chantilly, (her words, not mine.) She is highly supportive of this boundary study. She never went to boundary study meetings in the past so she knows many parents who support this change are not at the meetings and are not being heard, based on her own lack of involvement when her schools were redistricted in the past. She will ask questions about the study but supports it.

Stu is upset about the comments of the others, Raney and Hone. He says the board set the criteria and it's not right to change it now. It wouldn't be fair to change things now. (As if any of this is fair.) He doesn't want this to be a budget decision. Fusses about magnets being expensive, county now does'focus schools' because of the expensive of magnets. Stu says a magnet is more expensive than doing this boundary change. He's not happy with Raney. Wants students moved, and not 'just plow more money into the school'. Stu is obviously upset with Raney's comments.

Hone talks about south county middle. She says she has a better perspective because she can look at the whole county. South Lakes is the "crown jewel" in our school system, our very best high school, but she will not close her eyes to the problems in the process. She's upset about this boundary process and how poorly it has worked. She sounded a bit snippy with Stu.

All of them want to talk about this more on Monday, the 14th.

Janie says the last county wide study was in the early 1980's. They closed schools, wanted to save money. It was very bitter but they believed there was a pressing need and a permanent decline in enrollment. Even though everyone agreed that the whole county needed the change, there was still much anger and bitterness.

Tistadt says that staff has no ability to do a moratorium since the school board told them to do this boundary study. Staff can't stop it, only the school board can.

Chairman Storck said on February 11th they will talk about what they want to do. They could call another work session, if necessary. Storck says they can do many things when they vote, including support the staff recommendation. He says the emails they receive are important and that they read every one of them but don't always have time to answer them all.

So keep those cards and letters coming in!

IMO, Bottom line, Raney and Hone will vote against the proposal. Janie might too. Kathy Smith was adamant that she will vote for this plan, or something very similar, but had concerns about anyone in her district being moved to a school further (sic) away. She mentioned that she wouldn't speak for anyone in Stu's district. The rest of the school board will not muck around in a decision about a school not in their district. So the vote will be 9 to 3 for the boundary change, or, more likely, 10 to 2.

Stu is wrong to be angry at Raney during Raney's first meeting as a school board member, particularly when it's clear that Stu doesn't need his vote.

Dan Storck is chairman for another year. Kathy Smith was elected vice chair. The usual pattern is the vice chair becomes the next chair. So we can expect Kathy to be chair again in 2009 and 2010.

Thanks Baffled,

My brother and I were talking last night about the redistricting. He came by and told me he heard it on the news and knew I would hit the roof when I found out because he knows how hard I have worked to educate my son.

[The lengths I have gone to get that boy to "learn" how to learn have been very difficult for me. My son did not grasp learning in the way I have seen other children take to study. I kept my son in the Japanese Immersion Program against the advice of one elementary school councilor --thank God.]

Anyway, my brother and I talked about our experience in another city we both lived in and what we saw happening and we drew some conclusions.

I can only say that I sincerely hope that everything I am concerned about is misguided but unfortunatly I doubt it.

Good Luck to You

>>>>I am concerned that someone on the board finds a
> school with such student attrition, SOL failure
> rates, yet consistent violence, despite the
> shrinking school population, to be a "Crown Jewel
> of the school system."<<<<

I found that rather alarming too. People from outside the district might label TJ as the crown jewel since students there have won so many national, and international, awards AND because it is recently been rated the number ONE school in the country. But South Lakes? With such a high dropout rate? It saddens me to think that someone on our school board would have such misplaced priorities.

As far as I've heard, the people in the areas who are most effected by this change, Floris and Fox Mill, have had no meetings with their School Board representative. It was obvious that Janie has met with people in the Island, and Tina Hone too. It was also obvious that Stu has not met with the people in Floris and Fox Mill. Perhaps he will now do that. Has anyone heard about meetings with him? He owes them that much, at a minimum.

>>>at SL, there was a documented difference in set of test takers last year. A significantly lower number of students with disabilities took the test last year.<<<

I am sorry to hear that. I do hope that they aren't discouraging students with disabilities from taking the SAT.

There are so many ways to cook the books on the SAT, I would never look at one year as any kind of trend.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>I am concerned that someone on the board finds
> a
> > school with such student attrition, SOL failure
> > rates, yet consistent violence, despite the
> > shrinking school population, to be a "Crown
> Jewel
> > of the school system."<<<<
>
> I found that rather alarming too. People from
> outside the district might label TJ as the crown
> jewel since students there have won so many
> national, and international, awards AND because it
> is recently been rated the number ONE school in
> the country. But South Lakes? With such a high
> dropout rate? It saddens me to think that someone
> on our school board would have such misplaced
> priorities.
>
> As far as I've heard, the people in the areas who
> are most effected by this change, Floris and Fox
> Mill, have had no meetings with their School Board
> representative. It was obvious that Janie has
> met with people in the Island, and Tina Hone too.
> It was also obvious that Stu has not met with the
> people in Floris and Fox Mill. Perhaps he will
> now do that. Has anyone heard about meetings with
> him? He owes them that much, at a minimum.


I have not heard of any upcoming Floris/FM meetings with Gibson. I don't know if he is going to try or not. Probably not because he is too focused on SL and its community. Personally, I am quite nauseated by the results of the Jan 10 meeting among the sb members.

>>>Personally, I am quite nauseated by the results of the Jan 10 meeting among the sb members.<<<

I understand. There doesn't appear to be a school board rep who represents your area's concerns.

The comments from the school board do not bode well for our students. It's going to be a looooong 4 years under this board.

I can count at least 5 school board members who would support a county wide redistricting. If they can get two more to join them, they could do it. But this process at South Lakes has been so terrible, they would need an entirely different process. It would depend on how much power Janie and her supporters have to prevent it. Others here can better judge that. Thomas More? Thoughts?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>I do hope that they aren't discouraging students with disabilities from taking the >SAT. There are so many ways to cook the books on the SAT....

Is there no depth to which you will not plumb in your quest to discredit South Lakes? Neen, you win the Sid Blumenthal award today for the best innuendo and smear.

Neen Wrote:

>
> As far as I've heard, the people in the areas who
> are most effected by this change, Floris and Fox
> Mill, have had no meetings with their School Board
> representative. It was obvious that Janie has
> met with people in the Island, and Tina Hone too.
> It was also obvious that Stu has not met with the
> people in Floris and Fox Mill. Perhaps he will
> now do that. Has anyone heard about meetings with
> him? He owes them that much, at a minimum.



uhhh, he doesn't return our phone calls. we are a big thorn in his side.

I saw the SB meeting on December 10th. Neen is correct in assessment of the comments.

Raney is for moratorium

Hone is for do-over

Bradsher has her own problems but having had her own kids involved in SoCo I think she is also for do-over

Strauss- Well you would hope she would stand by her constituents ( Madison Island)

Phil N- Eichner- made a comment during the budget portion stating something to effect that SB cannot continue to alienate parents that were of the non disadvantaged variety, ie customer base and that they would be driven out of FCPS to private sector and that would be bad

Smith- loves for all kids except for her own of course to leave Chantilly and Westfield. Said she was speaking for those who dont speak??????????? Mutes???

Gibson- wont hear about budget when it comes to the boudary. Budget be damned. I want more kids. Oh and who cares if we over crowd Sunrise Valley we will do another boundary for terrasett and while I am at it what about that new housing development coming in on Hunter Mill road? How many houses is that? oh and arent they running $2million and over. That may work for me...

Kaye Kory- dont know, not too keen on Stu or Janie from the look of her. Frankly I cant blame her, all night long they sit there treating the others like they are kin to Borat.

No one else spoke except for Tessie Wilson telling Stu to calm down when he went for the jugular of Raney. Love Raney by the way. Imagine someone in government asking for financial accountability from others in government. Oh that has to make them mad as hell.