Neenologist Wrote:

> No new questions for now - your latest series of
> posts are repeats of repeats of earlier
> generalizations, tossed out for the sheer pleasure
> of insulting IB, liberals, democrats and/or South
> Lakes supporters. But thanks for asking.

That's ok, Huns. I'm sure a thought will emerge, sooner or later.

SLHS won the Northern Region track championship this past week. Not easy to do with for a school of 1400 - quite an accomplishment.

This is a sport that rewards discipline and training over talent. A nice touchstone for the school. Congrats to SLHS. Lets hope it inspires others.

Now it would be nice to see that same discipline and training be applied to acadamics at SL, so that their test scores and ranks improve...

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS won the Northern Region track championship
> this past week. Not easy to do with for a school
> of 1400 - quite an accomplishment.
>
> This is a sport that rewards discipline and
> training over talent. A nice touchstone for the
> school. Congrats to SLHS. Lets hope it inspires
> others.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS won the Northern Region track championship
> this past week. Not easy to do with for a school
> of 1400 - quite an accomplishment.
>
> This is a sport that rewards discipline and
> training over talent. A nice touchstone for the
> school. Congrats to SLHS. Lets hope it inspires
> others.

I've watched them perform earlier this spring, and they have an absolutely killer 1600-meter relay team.

sports and acadamics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now it would be nice to see that same discipline
> and training be applied to acadamics at SL, so
> that their test scores and ranks improve...
>
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLHS won the Northern Region track championship
> > this past week. Not easy to do with for a
> school
> > of 1400 - quite an accomplishment.
> >
> > This is a sport that rewards discipline and
> > training over talent. A nice touchstone for
> the
> > school. Congrats to SLHS. Lets hope it
> inspires
> > others.


Nice.

Mr. Quantum offers a gracious kudo to kids, and you have the gall to snark at them, with a double misspelling to boot (if you're going to suggest that people put more effort into improving academic performance, shouldn't you spell your own name right??).

Sometimes it is better to remain silent.

What I find galling is a complete refusal of all including SBMs to confront the real issues with this RD. No one is willing to take head on the issues of test scores, AP, ranking, etc. Any one trying to bring those up is shot down. Simillar response from the SBMs ( those who replied to the emails ); in line of SLHS is doing great, IB and AP are the same, scores do not tell the whole story, FCPS does not rank schools, etc, etc.

So I agree this is a great achievement at the Northern Region track championship. All I am saying is that we should not forget the core issues here. And lets not blame the students for those. The SBMs and FCPS should stand up and bring SLHS scores and rank at par with its neighbors.

Boundary Warrior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sports and acadamics Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now it would be nice to see that same
> discipline
> > and training be applied to acadamics at SL, so
> > that their test scores and ranks improve...
> >
> > quantum Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SLHS won the Northern Region track
> championship
> > > this past week. Not easy to do with for a
> > school
> > > of 1400 - quite an accomplishment.
> > >
> > > This is a sport that rewards discipline and
> > > training over talent. A nice touchstone for
> > the
> > > school. Congrats to SLHS. Lets hope it
> > inspires
> > > others.
>
>
> Nice.
>
> Mr. Quantum offers a gracious kudo to kids, and
> you have the gall to snark at them, with a double
> misspelling to boot (if you're going to suggest
> that people put more effort into improving
> academic performance, shouldn't you spell your own
> name right??).
>
> Sometimes it is better to remain silent.

Success in academics and athletics is possible - in fact, if athletics is kept in proper perspective, the two activities can be positively symbiotic. Perhaps this is an opportunity to make that clear within the schools.

I was in a meeting with the numer 2 guy within FCPS-it was scary. We talked about achievement gaps, dropouts, etc. I swear either the guy had an "off" day or he is positively clueless about what is going on. Some stats were thrown out and he kept saying that he either didn't know the actual figure or would say "I don't think they are that bad".

No joke-this guy did not seem to have a clue as to how bad things are in some schools and among some demographic groups. If the number 2 guy isn't focused on the deficiencies-this plane ain't getting off the ground.

My feeling honestly, is that the "establishment" just takes care of the 70 percent of the top and hopes that their high scores will carry the average scores so that FCPS stays near the top. They have no game plan for the others.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Success in academics and athletics is possible -
> in fact, if athletics is kept in proper
> perspective, the two activities can be positively
> symbiotic. Perhaps this is an opportunity to
> make that clear within the schools.

Yes it is possible. Quantum- ponder this. Virginia and FCPS require PE in grades 9 and 10. Students that participate in sports are certainly getting their exercise. Why do team members have to take PE? Budget savings by counting sports as PE?

AJ Price [Penn State recruit] is on the football team and was on track. He's a good fellow and a fabulously talented athlete. However, I think you are correct about the track team working hard - if not the addition of Price could have resulted in a record like the SL's football team [has some real biggies on the roster].

Did Gibson attend this Northern Regional track meet?

ship without a captain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was in a meeting with the numer 2 guy within
> FCPS-it was scary. We talked about achievement
> gaps, dropouts, etc. I swear either the guy had
> an "off" day or he is positively clueless about
> what is going on. Some stats were thrown out and
> he kept saying that he either didn't know the
> actual figure or would say "I don't think they are
> that bad".
>
> No joke-this guy did not seem to have a clue as to
> how bad things are in some schools and among some
> demographic groups. If the number 2 guy isn't
> focused on the deficiencies-this plane ain't
> getting off the ground.
>
> My feeling honestly, is that the "establishment"
> just takes care of the 70 percent of the top and
> hopes that their high scores will carry the
> average scores so that FCPS stays near the top.
> They have no game plan for the others.


You are correct. Dale didn't even know the history of full day K. The school board never got a number on blackberries held by people like non-school based administrators NOR numbers on the 208 contacts v stipends for summer school. No public drop -out report since 04-05. Why have Monizcko and Noonan? FCPS has computers but the leadership team and admins can't even produce excell spreadsheets for the board to easily work budget - boundary - or any numbers.

taxpayer - I cannot speak to the PE policy of the schools - I assume that the PE requirement also involves health studies - a good thing - I think - so in any event varsity athletes would have to take at least some of the coursework even if the policy is modified. In my home state - PE was a four year requirement - even with varsity sport participation - it certainly didn't hurt me and I liked it. I opted for Eskimo PE - a guarantee of never having to go indoors - lots of flag aka getting close to tackle football in the snow. But if resources and budget are limited, making varsity athletes take PE likely should be examined.

I think Price is a very fine athlete. And PSU will want him to do the athletic thing right - meaning school, too. But SLHS has another sub-50 400 meter runner, and their other athletes are doing well on mostly discipline and training - a great thing to see, frankly. I don't understand the negative comments - these guys are not running track (or doing field events) because 1000's of people show up at the meets - they are doing it for its intrinsic value - and they deserve every bit of kudos thrown their way.

Peter Noonan is apparently the "wonder kid" who is supposed to right the ship. I believe he uses this system in middle/high schools for staff development called "communities at work model". Not sure what FCPS pays annually to use this system but Noonan is a consultant for the company that offers this program. He also is available on the lecture circuit at $3500 per day plus $1000 for travel to schools throughout the country to talk about this program. He was listed on some school board minutes at a school in TN last year as being paid to speak.


In summary, Noonan gets paid by FCPS (very well may I add), and he introduces this system that FCPS pays to use and he is a consultant to the company and makes money on the side.

No conflict of interest there.

Noonan has a part time job Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Noonan is apparently the "wonder kid" who is
> supposed to right the ship. I believe he uses
> this system in middle/high schools for staff
> development called "communities at work model".
> Not sure what FCPS pays annually to use this
> system but Noonan is a consultant for the company
> that offers this program. He also is available on
> the lecture circuit at $3500 per day plus $1000
> for travel to schools throughout the country to
> talk about this program. He was listed on some
> school board minutes at a school in TN last year
> as being paid to speak.

> In summary, Noonan gets paid by FCPS (very well
> may I add), and he introduces this system that
> FCPS pays to use and he is a consultant to the
> company and makes money on the side.
>
> No conflict of interest there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sounds like a conflict of interest to me. I would like to see his leave slips, his travel vouchers for his trips and does he use FCPs material.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NotVeryLow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I know some families decided to go to SL even
> > though their pupil placements already approved.
> > It's all because transportation. Very hard to
> > arrange.
> >
> > So, I am thinking the number might not be very
> > low.
> >
> Why would transportation be difficult when the
> buses will still be running for the next 3 years?
> Most people know that, don't they? So few high
> school kids take the bus anyway. The buses have
> to run, but they are almost never full. So it
> won't be any problem for those who are pupil
> placed to ride the bus.


Please don't suggest "It won't be any problem" to ride the bus if you pupil place. You don't know that at all. You have to get special "exception to ride the bus" approval. Just because the bus will be running for 3 more years doesn't mean they will be picking up 9th graders. FCPS could change the bus route and have each bus pick up at more routes, which would equal longer commutes but fewer buses on the road. There are no guarantees. Also, families that hav completed this form won't hear if they get approved until much later in the summer. All forms are date/time stamped, so clearly they don't expect to accommodate everyone who wants to ride the bus.

All you have to do is to drop your kid to the nearest bus stop that has empty seats. You have to sign a waiver. Say you have placed into Oakton, and there is a bus that comes to west ox road that has seats available. You have to pick and drop from that stop..


bus pains Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NotVeryLow Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I know some families decided to go to SL even
> > > though their pupil placements already
> approved.
> > > It's all because transportation. Very hard to
> > > arrange.
> > >
> > > So, I am thinking the number might not be
> very
> > > low.
> > >
> > Why would transportation be difficult when the
> > buses will still be running for the next 3
> years?
> > Most people know that, don't they? So few high
> > school kids take the bus anyway. The buses
> have
> > to run, but they are almost never full. So it
> > won't be any problem for those who are pupil
> > placed to ride the bus.
>
>
> Please don't suggest "It won't be any problem" to
> ride the bus if you pupil place. You don't know
> that at all. You have to get special "exception
> to ride the bus" approval. Just because the bus
> will be running for 3 more years doesn't mean they
> will be picking up 9th graders. FCPS could change
> the bus route and have each bus pick up at more
> routes, which would equal longer commutes but
> fewer buses on the road. There are no guarantees.
> Also, families that hav completed this form won't
> hear if they get approved until much later in the
> summer. All forms are date/time stamped, so
> clearly they don't expect to accommodate everyone
> who wants to ride the bus.

Noonan has a part time job Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Noonan is apparently the "wonder kid" who is
> supposed to right the ship. I believe he uses
> this system in middle/high schools for staff
> development called "communities at work model".
> Not sure what FCPS pays annually to use this
> system but Noonan is a consultant for the company
> that offers this program. He also is available on
> the lecture circuit at $3500 per day plus $1000
> for travel to schools throughout the country to
> talk about this program. He was listed on some
> school board minutes at a school in TN last year
> as being paid to speak.
>
>
> In summary, Noonan gets paid by FCPS (very well
> may I add), and he introduces this system that
> FCPS pays to use and he is a consultant to the
> company and makes money on the side.
>
> No conflict of interest there.

Is there ANY evidence that Noonan's program helps kids? What does it do? Why isn't he the assistant superintendent for training, rather than for all instruction? Why does FCPS hire so many people who need so much training? Why don't they hire teachers who already know how to teach?

Noonan is also big on that silly Strategic Governance, another goofy idea that FCPS paid outside consultants thousands? Millions? Who knows how much they paid the Aspen Group to develop something for FCPS that seems to do nothing, other than provide more meetings for the school board and staff.

Why do we have so many programs that aren't directed at students, but at staff and school board? It's nuts.

Kathy Smith and Phil were behind the secretive strategic governance. In essence they gave power back to Jack Dale so they could keep their hands clean for higher office...too bad

Why would another school district hire Noonan at $4500 per day to speak? He does not seem terribly bright, his educational background is average (Univ of New Mexico) and he does not seem terribly knowledgeable when drilled at these SB members.

I honestly think he is using his position within FCPS to leverage his lack of talent so these other school districts can read our playbook.

In my opinion, the playbook (if there is one), is not for Noonan to sell. FCPS throws away millions of dollars per year on all this training, programs, consultants, etc, with little to show for it at the end of the day.

Do any of the other folks at Gatehouse get paid on the lecture circuit? Might be an interesting FOIA request.

Carol Horn the GT head might get paid on the lecture circuit. Her big schtick is increasing minorities in GT and she devised the rather fuzzy Young Scholars program. The academics and program are a lot fuzzier than it's counterparts in the private sector. Meanwhile, the achievement of Black students as a sub-group is lower than Richmond.

Here's a question. South Lakes has a transitional ESOL high school center. How many students, are most Hispanic, are most from Herndon High boundaries? What are the boundaries and feeder schools and languages break outs for these transitional ESOL centers?

I thought Young Scholars got axed at the last budget round? I remember Hone voicing her utter disgust that YS was being cut and FLES was asking for more money.

These SB members do a poor job of prioritizing programs. How can Smith possibly justify expanding FLES when so many minorities are underrepresented in GT? I honestly think she is stupid.

As far as ESOL at SLHS-they should disclose numbers of students. I asked for the ESOL staffing formulas once from Teddy Pedaris's office-I will have to dig them out. The numbers are woefully inadequate. I recall there being 11 dually certified ESL and SPED teachers, for a population of like 4000??? And we wonder why these kids dropout and fail the SOLs at horrendous rates.

Re - Young Scholars program. It certainly does have a feel good notion to it. Query whether it works. My guess is that it doesn't, despite its good intentions.

I recall reading a recent study about self esteem in students. Not surprisingly, it concluded that Asian students actually have a fairly low self esteem, while other minority students quite often had an inflated sense of the same. I say not surprising because serious students invariably relate that the more they know, the more they know about what they don't know (in fact, one of the great things about higher education at its highest levels is that one gets to live that principle every day).

What matters is competence in reading and computation, above all else. And no amount of self esteem building will accomplish it - just hard work, and successful repetition. I feel badly for those who follow the self-esteem course - they must feel righteous about their acts - inasmuch as they are doing "something" - but in the end, results, and not merely a presence in a seat or classroom, matters.

South County Secondary School
Analysis of Overcrowding and Potential Solutions
May 23, 2008



Executive Summary


The South County Secondary School (SCSS) is operating on a 9-period day as a means to manage its overcrowding. While designed to be a high school with a capacity of 2,500 students, it has operated since it opened in 2005 as a secondary school. Its current enrollment is approximately 2,960 students. It is necessary to provide relief to the school either by enhancing capacity or reducing enrollment, or some combination thereof. This analysis and staff recommendation are based upon the need to provide relief as quickly as possible to the overcrowding at SCSS.

Staff recognizes that circumstances can change in the future. We don’t know if the budget challenges facing the Board of Supervisors will result in their reducing future cash flow for capital projects. We don’t know the extent that changes such as BRAC might have on student enrollments in this part of the county. We need to find solutions to the known overcrowding at SCSS while maintaining flexibility to address future conditions.

This analysis examines current and future enrollment at SCSS and explores the options that might be available to address its overcrowding. Solution options considered were:

Boundary changes
Build a new middle school to serve this area
Build an addition to the existing school
Relocate programs

To supplement and illustrate this analysis, a map entitled ‘South County Student Yield Analysis’ and the details of the revised school capacity analysis are provided in Attachments 1 and 2, respectively.


Staff Recommendation

Based upon the fact that we do not project significant increases in enrollment at SCSS, we recommend an addition to the existing school. This option is less expensive than building a new middle school and provides sufficient capacity to meet the enrollment needs of the school. Assuming cooperation from the county and the absence of unusual circumstances, we believe the addition can be built in time for the opening of the 2010-2011 school year.

If future enrollments exceed projections, it would be possible to consider building the middle school. For this reason, the middle school should remain in the capital improvement program. Over the next several years as we monitor student enrollments in this part of the county, we should examine creative means by which to construct the middle school should it be justified. Such creative strategies might include PPEA’s or examination of the school system’s current capital plans and assets. School closings, mergers, and expansions, should all be part of our considerations if such actions are supported by data and could benefit our capital program.



Statement of Condition

South County Secondary School (SCSS) has capacity to accommodate 800 middle and 1,700 high school students. With the opening of SCSS in fall 2005, enrollment for the middle school was 1,083 students and for the high school was 1,422 students for a total enrollment of 2,505. The fall 2006 enrollment was at 1,049 for the middle school and increased to 1,978 for high school for a total enrollment of 3,027. Fall 2007 enrollment for the middle school has dropped back to 885 students and increased to 2,044 students for the high school for a total enrollment of 2,929. The current projections for the combined middle and high school membership for the next five years range between 2,800 -2,900 students with the middle school averaging generally around 900 and the high school averaging around 1,950. These projections consider the remaining development in the pipeline (site plan/subdivision plan approved and/or under construction) that would normally be included within the 5-year CIP window. It should be noted that the projections made in 2005 and 2006 for the out-years at SCSS ranged from 3,200 to 3,400. The current projections have been adjusted to reflect the recent enrollment trends and the boundary adjustment between Hayfield Secondary School and SCSS implemented at the beginning of 2007.

Based upon enrollment projections and the recently completed capacity analysis of this school, SCSS will remain approximately 350 – 500 students above current capacity. Absent remedial action, the school will have to continue to operate on a 9-period day. This level of overcrowding at SCSS cannot be sustained and must be addressed so that the school can return from a 9-period day to a normal 7-period schedule for students and staff.

Projections for the surrounding schools anticipate that student populations will likely remain fairly stable or experience slight increases. The table below compares the current enrollments and near term projections for SCSS.

2007-08 2008-09 2008-09 2012-13
School Enrollments* Fall Projection Spring Update Forecast
South County HS 2031 2077 2075 1892
South County MS 887 891 899 924

*Enrollments on 03/31/2008

Projected and Actual Student Yield in the SCSS Attendance Area

Staff analysis of student yields for the SCSS attendance area reveals that the total number of students is higher than what would be anticipated using the current countywide student yield ratios by housing type. Using available dwelling unit information from the county, there are a total of 9,977 residential units in the SCSS attendance area which includes approximately 6,000 single family units, 3,000 townhouses, 700 multi-family units, and 150 low-rise and duplex units. The following table provides a comparison of the student yield ratios by housing type for the SCSS attendance area and the average countywide student yield ratios by unit type.



Student Yield Ratio Single Family Townhouses Low-rise Duplex Multi-family Garden
Countywide .241 .158 .084 .084 .084
SCSS .289 .288 .292 .298 .287

While the countywide student yield ratios are generally used only in formulating development impacts associated with new residential rezonings, it is clear that the SCSS attendance area has yielded more students from all housing types but has particularly high yields from town homes and the more dense multi-family housing developments than what might be anticipated by the countywide averages. The residential developments which have impacted the SCSS attendance more than any other are the Laurel Hill and Laurel Highlands developments, which were rezoned for higher residential density in 2001.

The chart below is intended to highlight the projected student yield at the time of the rezoning approval in 2001 and the present student count for the 2007-2008 school year for these two developments. As noted in the chart, the projected student yield and the actual student yield for Laurel Highlands are similar to what was projected in 2001 to the present day. Laurel Hill, on the other hand, features more single family detached units, which in the past, has had a greater student yield, and which could account for the rise in actual student yield over what was projected in 2001. Both developments have ultimately yielded significantly more middle and high school students than what was calculated at the time of rezoning.


  Total DU approved Projected student yield
2001 Actual student count 2007
Laurel Hill 732 total -        
582 SFD, 150 SFA 418 total
263 ES, 47 MS, 108 HS 584 total -                         292 ES, 95 MS, 197 HS
Laurel Highlands 539 total -  
144 SFD, 106 SFA, 289 MF 122 total (does not include MF) - 81ES,
15 MS, 35 HS 129 total-                         61 ES, 28 MS, 40 HS

It should be noted that for Laurel Highlands, the projected student count and actual student count does not include multi-family units since those have not yet been constructed.


Anticipated Residential Growth

It is anticipated that some growth will continue within the SCSS boundary. The approved 289 mid-rise units remain to be constructed and occupied in Laurel Highlands and may yield approximately 3 middle and 7 high school students, although the actual yields may be higher consistent with other developments in the SCSS attendance area. However, the majority of remaining land area within the SCSS attendance area is zoned and planned for very low residential densities. Most of the residential development currently pending is by-right development that was approved within the last couple of years but has not yet been developed. By-right developments do not need special zoning approval and are permitted so long as they meet all Zoning Ordinance and county regulations. The following chart summarizes the status of residential development in the SCSS boundary area and the potential yield of approximately 76 additional middle and high school students. There are no pending residential rezoning applications within this attendance area.


  Tax Map Status # / housing type Total Student yield ES MS HS
106-1 ((1)) 15 plan pending 8 single family 4 2 1 1
106-1 ((1)) 23A & 47A plan approved - not constructed 14 single family 6 3 1 2
106-2 ((1)) 49 & 50 plan pending 6 single family 2 1 0 1
106-3 ((7)) 1-6 & 11-14 plan approved - not constructed 45 single family 22 11 3 8
106-4 ((1)) 52D plan approved - not constructed 14 single family 6 3 1 2
106-3 ((1)) 4A 106-4 ((1)) 26 Sect. 1- plan approved, not constructed; Sect. 2 - plan pending Sect 1-64 single family Sect 2-32 single family Total-96 47 23 7 17
106-4 ((1)) 52B plan approved - not constructed 16 single family 8 4 1 3
106-4 ((8)) 1-10 plan approved - not constructed 10 single family 5 2 1 2
Rezoning 107-2 ((12)) G RZ approved -most SFA constructed, no MF constructed 94 town home 293 multi-family 56 18 / 13 5 / 3 10 / 7
               
Total     209 Single family 94 Town home 293 Multi-family 156 80 23 53


BRAC (Base Realignment and Closures)

The county has responded to the impending relocation of jobs to Ft. Belvoir by initiating a re-planning process that could add some additional residential development potential within the SCSS attendance area. Of the 35 BRAC Plan Amendment nominations submitted, two are within the SCSS boundary:

PC 2008-037 proposes an option for mixed-use development with up to 1,072 multi-family high-rise units - total of 84 students (46 ES, 12 MS, 26 HS).

PC 2008-036 proposes an option for mixed-use development with up to 804 units - total of 63 students (35 ES, 9 MS, 19 HS).


If approved, these two BRAC nominations represent potential new student yields since both areas are undeveloped and do not currently permit residential development. Based on the current proposals, approximately 66 students may be anticipated at such future time as the Comprehensive Plan is amended, rezoning and site plan applications approved, and construction and occupancy commences. Continued planning and development of Laurel Hill adaptive re-use area could also add more residential development potential.

Student Growth Summary

It should be noted that these estimated student yields are based on county-wide averages. The potential new growth is unlike most of the existing developments that make up the housing stock in the SCSS attendance area. New development is likely to be either higher urban densities associated with BRAC or smaller in-fill developments and subdivisions. While these new developments may yield more students than the countywide averages, it is less likely that the higher ratios associated with Laurel Hill, Laurel Highlands, or the larger SCSS attendance area would be duplicated.

The majority of the potential residential growth outlined above would likely not begin construction and/or be occupied for another five or more years. BRAC Plan Amendments are not scheduled for Board of Supervisors public hearings until 2009 and, if approved, would be subject to the rezoning and site plan process which can take up to several years. The depressed housing market has resulted in little movement for by-right in-fill or proffered development. While the potential for growth is not insignificant, it is only a small part of what will have the most influence over the future growth or decline in membership for SCSS. It would not be appropriate to simply add the potential student yield based on future development into the current student population mix which is the foundation for student projections until these projects are near completion.

To better understand the future membership for SCSS, greater consideration of change within the feeder schools is needed. SCSS serves multiple feeder elementary schools. Currently, Halley, Silverbrook, and Newington Forest feed 100 percent of their students into SCSS; Lorton Station and Gunston feed 26 percent and 21 percent of their students, respectively, to SCSS. Silverbrook is the largest feeder to SCSS with an estimated 190 6th graders feeding into 7th grade for 2008 followed by 90 students from Newington Forest and 76 from Halley. Lorton Station will feed 22 students (26 percent of 84 in 6th grade class) and Gunston, 17 students (21 percent of 83 in 6th grade class). A review of the lower grades feeding into SCSS over the next five years does not show any large numbers of students in any specific grade level(s).

The table below provides the projected enrollments by class for the South County Middle feeder schools for the 2008-09 school year. Note that the 6th grade classes which will feed to South County Middle 7th grade in the 2009-10 school year are generally smaller than the current feeder classes with the exception of Halley which is projected to feed 83 students in 2 years. Silverbrook, which will feed 190 this fall, is projected to feed 180 the following year. Newington Forest will send 90 students this fall to South County Middle and is projected to send 71 the following year. Lorton Station and Gunston which only feed a small percentage of the 7th grade, also show smaller feeder classes for 2009-10 school year.

Feeder Schools to South County Middle


SCHOOL KG 1 2 3 4 5 6
Halley 80 78 101 72 76 87 83
Silverbrook 129 145 165 168 170 169 180
Newington Forest 92 87 86 87 89 62 71
Gunston 12 12 12 11 11 11 12
Lorton Station 19 19 17 14 15 14 14
Totals 332 341 382 352 361 343 360
The enrollment numbers and feeder percentages listed on the
table above are based on Spring Update for School year 2008-09

Projections for the next five years at Silverbrook indicate moderate growth for the next three years followed by decline. Silverbrook is a maturing residential area that has experienced a growth in students in recent years. That growth may begin to diminish slightly in the next five years as the younger, larger groups are followed by slightly smaller cohorts.

Projections at Halley show continued strong growth over the next five years. Halley has experienced growth in both Asian and Hispanic populations, which as a group have contributed to the increases in FCPS in recent years and may for the next several years, as well.

Projections for the next five years at Newington Forest indicate slight growth in the next 2-3 years and then stable, flat enrollments. Newington Forest is also a maturing residential area with a diverse population. In recent years the area has experienced a growth in Hispanic and Black populations both which may contribute to moderate growth in the near term.

The current residential real estate climate and economic conditions are vastly different from the conditions that existed when Laurel Hill and Laurel Highlands were being planned, rezoned, constructed, and occupied. The impact of the changes in the base feeder schools will be the primary factor influencing the future class sizes for SCSS. Staff has modeled the projections based on class cohort survival rates and account for new development and school boundary changes. What remains speculative are the continued impacts of demographic changes, the continued impact of increased energy costs, the impacts of immigration policies of neighboring counties, and the impact of new job opportunities related to BRAC, which could all influence individual family decisions to move into the area.

These factors, among others, could result in higher than anticipated student yields for the future multi-family units in Laurel Highlands and greater that average student yields from both townhouse and multi-family housing types. However, over time, it is more likely that the current higher yields for SCSS overall will tend to move toward the countywide averages for the various housing types.

In light of the feeder school analysis above, we project an overall stable school population with moderate growth where noted during the next five years. There is nothing definitive that would suggest substantive increases within SCSS after that time.


Potential Solutions

There are three possible solutions to the overcrowding were considered during this analysis. The purpose of this document is to consider and articulate 1) a conceptual description of each alternative, (2) the funding sources, as appropriate, that support each alternative; and (3) an assessment of the relative viability and risks of each alternative, in both the short-term and the long-term.

The potential solutions are:

Modify existing middle, high, or secondary school boundaries.
Build an addition to the existing SCSS
Build a new middle school.
Make program assignment changes.

Modify Boundaries

One potential solution to overcrowding at SCSS is to move students from that school to one or more of the surrounding contiguous schools. Five high/secondary schools have boundaries contiguous to SCSS – Mount Vernon, Hayfield, Lake Braddock, West Springfield, and Lee. At the middle school level the contiguous boundaries are with Whitman, Hayfield, Key, Irving, and Lake Braddock.

Increases in enrollment have occurred during SY 2007 - 2008 at schools throughout the county and have impacted these specific schools. We have updated the projections for these schools for the next school year but we have not yet done so for the 5-year projections.

We just completed new capacity studies for these schools and these capacities are shown in this document. In certain cases, capacities were increased and in other cases there were decreases.

Along with other FCPS schools, SCSS’ capacity was recently evaluated using the new methodology developed by the Office of Design and Construction Services. The results of the calculation show that the school has a current program capacity of 2,573 students.

Following are the capacity situations at each of these schools that were projected for 2012-2013 as included in the 2009-2013 Capital Improvement Program, but with new capacities. The detailed calculation information is included in this document as Attachment 2.


2012-2013 2012-2013 Percent
Projected Over/(Under) Capacity
School Capacity Enrollment Capacity Utilized
Lake Braddock HS 3079 2223 -856 72.2%
West Springfield HS 2107 2097 -10 99.5%
Lee HS 2111 1745 -366 82.7%
Hayfield HS 2180 2034 -146 93.3%
Mount Vernon HS 2279 1714 -565 75.2%
Totals 11756 9813 -1943 83.5%

Lake Braddock MS 1292 1248 -44 96.6%
Irving MS 1032 1022 -10 99.0%
Key MS 1000 750 -250 75.0%
Hayfield MS 1050 1059 9 100.9%
Whitman MS 1000 1076 76 107.6%
Totals 5374 5155 -219 95.9%

Grand Totals 17130 14968 -2162 87.4%


Even considering that enrollment projections can never be perfectly accurate, it would appear that sufficient capacity, slightly more than 1900 seats, exists to solve the overcrowding at SCSS. However, a more detailed examination suggests that might not be easy to accomplish. For example, a significant portion of the available capacity is at Mount Vernon High School. Its feeder middle school, Whitman, is projected to be over-capacity. This exact circumstance also is true at Lake Braddock Secondary School. This means it will be very difficult to take advantage of the high school capacities at Mount Vernon and Lake Braddock due to the lack of capacity at their feeder middle schools.

The one exception is Key Middle School and Lee High School that together are projected to have over 600 available seats. We are not recommending using the capacities at these schools to address the needs of SCSS unless other options to solve the overcrowding are determined to not be viable. First, these communities have never been discussed as potential solutions to SCSS overcrowding. Before considering them, it would be appropriate to notify the community and to give sufficient time for discussion and community feedback. Second, the capacities at Lee High School and Key Middle School might be needed in the future to provide relief to West Springfield High School and Irving Middle School should the enrollments at those schools exceed projections.

There is potential to provide some relief to SCSS at Lake Braddock but we would be reluctant to recommend moving 500 students into that school as its high school enrollment then would approach 2800 students.

What this data suggests is that while it would be difficult to take advantage of available capacity in surrounding schools to help address capacity issues at South County, it is also true that we don’t need to build new capacity within the South County attendance area to help meet capacity/enrollment challenges at surrounding schools.


Build a New Middle School

One potential solution is to build a new middle school and to have the current school become a high school. There are several alternative strategies that could be used for a middle school. We own a 35-acre site designated for a middle school. This site is not contiguous to the current secondary school site. Because of the site’s topography and the presence of designated wetlands, developing this site as a middle school does pose certain challenges. We believe we can build a middle school on this site for approximately $53 million and have it ready to open in 2011 or 2012. Because of the presence of wetlands and uncertain soil conditions, the site permit process may take longer than typically is the case and the project may experience unanticipated cost increases to deal with these issues.

We have explored the possibility of exchanging land with the Park Authority. The Park Authority owns the property that is located between the middle school site and the current secondary school. Building a middle school on this site would allow the school system to use the existing fields on the secondary school site thus reducing the scope of the middle school project and reducing overall costs. It also means that we would require fewer acres on which to build the school and associated infrastructure. Preliminary discussions with Park Authority staff did not suggest interest in such a land exchange.

If the School Board determines that it wants a middle school built, and if the primary purpose of the school is to provide needed relief to the current overcrowding at SCSS, staff recommends that the school be built on our current site. This approach avoids the potential delays that could be experienced if we try to work a land exchange with the Park Authority either as a part of or separate from a public-private partnership strategy.

Alternative 1 – Bridge Financing. Discussions with financing experts have indicated that there are strategies by which the School Board could build a middle school in the near future but not actually incur the costs for several years. Construction of the middle school currently shows in the capital program’s cash flow as beginning in FY 2017. It would be difficult to develop a financing bridge plan to that fiscal year but it is possible to FY 2014. Moving the cost of the middle school project to FY 2014 would have an impact on renovation projects that would occur within that time period. The specific schools are not yet known but will undoubtedly include those schools rated with the greatest renovation needs as a part of the current renovation queue study. A bridge financing plan would require approval by the Board of Supervisors.

Alternative 2 – PPEA’s . Another means to creatively finance the middle school is to consider public-private partnerships (PPEA’s). As of the end of April 2008, one PPEA has been submitted to Fairfax County and there are indications that another will be submitted in the near future. It is not known if these proposals are viable but they do offer the potential to generate at least $20 million towards the cost of the middle school. The primary concern with relying upon PPEA’s is that is will take a great deal of time and effort to consider each proposal and the ultimate outcomes are uncertain. Considering the overcrowding relief needed by SCSS, it does not appear reasonable to rely upon a process that might not be successful.

Key Issue – Bridge Financing. Staff notes that we have misgivings about the use of bridge financing as a means to build now and pay later. First, doing so could create an expectation in other communities that the same scenario should be used to accelerate their capital projects. Second, it presumes that funds will be available in the future when payments need to begin. Considering the current budget problems, it is possible that the school system could experience reductions in capital funding in future years. If this were to occur, prior commitments through bridge financing could place the school system in a very difficult situation.

Build an Addition to the Existing Secondary School

South County Secondary School is the same basic design as Westfield High School. Both schools were designed to allow for the addition of a classroom wing. Such a wing was added to Westfield to increase that school’s capacity and it can also be done at South County. Assuming that the addition provided capacity for 625 students, the revised total school’s capacity would be 3,198. Of this total, there would be approximately 1,000 middle school seats and 2,200 high school seats which would provide a significant buffer should enrollments substantially exceed projections.

An addition to South County can be designed to address the needs of a secondary versus a high school, i.e., some level of separate of middle and high school students. To this end, interior modifications to certain existing spaces may be required.

Because it is an existing design that was completed at Westfield, we believe that we could launch the project and complete it successfully in about 24 - 26 months. This means that if we were to begin the project in summer 2008, the addition should be ready for the 2010 – 2011 school year.

The approximately 55,000 square foot addition could accommodate five complete middle school teams (625 students team taught). Since the high school then would be about 500 under capacity, the additional unused high school space would accommodate the other middle school teams. We would examine the ability to locate these teams proximate to the new addition and to provide as much separation from the high school areas as possible.

The addition would contain five of the following:

Science
Math
Social Studies
English

It would also contain:

(2) multi-purpose rooms
Tech Tools Lab
Foreign Language Classroom

We estimate the project cost to be approximately $12 – 13 million based upon recent bids.


Program Relocations

Because SCSS does not bridge students to the school from other schools, there are no program adjustments that can be made that would reduce overcrowding at SCSS. We did consider the potential to create space at Lake Braddock by relocating some or all of the middle school GT program at that school. This option was not found feasible as the sending schools – Robinson, South County, and Irving Middle Schools all lack space for the return of their GT students.


Watchdog

Why did the School Board authorize the transfer of $2 million from BRAC planning to this SOCO middle school-which we now know (or at least publically acknowledge) that we don't need?

Why not be prudent and wait for this report before shifting funds from BRAC?

The taxpayers voted on this referendum. We were told the money ws for BRAC-the SB spent it on another wasteful project.

2162 empty seats in bordering schools. Average undercapacity at these schools of 87%. What happened to the "efficiency" argument that this SB talks about so often??

Not terribly efficient to build a new school that you don't need.

horse before the cart?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why did the School Board authorize the transfer of
> $2 million from BRAC planning to this SOCO middle
> school-which we now know (or at least publically
> acknowledge) that we don't need?
>
> Why not be prudent and wait for this report before
> shifting funds from BRAC?
>
> The taxpayers voted on this referendum. We were
> told the money ws for BRAC-the SB spent it on
> another wasteful project.
>
> 2162 empty seats in bordering schools. Average
> undercapacity at these schools of 87%. What
> happened to the "efficiency" argument that this SB
> talks about so often??
>
> Not terribly efficient to build a new school that
> you don't need.

Stick SOCO GT back at SOCO and move out kids that will stay at Lake Braddock for High school. Or stick SOCO GT at Hayfield and move others to LB for 7-12. Lots of options to explore rather than spend millions. reads like West Springfield justifiably questionned why no BRAC money for it's dilapidated site.

Bradsher at a WSHS PTA meeting:

http://www.fcps.edu/westspringfieldhs/ptsa/yr07-08/Feb2008Min.pdf

Two amendments that Liz presented that could affect WSHS were: 1. Superintendent to do objective study on enrollment and core capacity needs, change of CIP reevaluated. This amendment would place us on the CIP. 2. Research on Rolling/Phased Renovations due to financial dire straights. Rolling renovations can be good and bad. It would work as follows: 80M would go to 4 schools each year. This would take longer for renovations, but improvements would be seen visually sooner. Improvements of this type of renovation plan have been fixed since those at Madison, McLean, Stewart and Lee HS. This could get WSHS on the CIP sooner, but renovations would take longer. October 2008 study will be out, December 2008 WSHS will find out if it is on the CIP. Liz stressed that WSHS is NOT in competition with South County for FCPS funds. South County is looking for outside resources, use of innovative means. TJHS WOULD take funds from WSHS if their “upgrades” are funded. TJ is #1 school in country, a “governor’s school” and a state supported school. TJ should get some of its funding from innovative means, not just FCPS. Some ideas on WSHS renovations due to land constraints are: Building upwards, parking garages. Nancy asked Liz about BRAC funding, Liz clarified that the money is only for Mt. Vernon/Ft. Belvoir area. Liz will recheck this to make sure. $2M will go to South County for planning. Another amendment that was proposed was to put some County services in new South County Middle School so some of the cost would come from the County and not just FCPS.
Another

There is no doubt in my mind that WSHS has been royally F#@*ed by the incompetence and political BS of this School Board. But-Bradsher is using all of what little political capital she has on SOCO MIddle School-she aint gonna get both.

WSHS PTA is naive if they think she is going to get both schools money in this tight budget environment. Do the math-$155 million per year for renovations. TJ will cost$90 million-so will Marshall HS and Edison. WSHS is behind all 3. What would they do with $2 million in planning money-even if they got it? They are 10 years away from seeing any money.

Liz assured the West Springfield PTA that they are not in competition with SOCO for funds.....hahahahahaha. I hope the PTA is not that gullible.

Oh sure the SOCO Middle Solution Group Nazis will tell you about their "creative financing". Give me a break. They took $2 million from BRAC planning, they are selling land to a developer for $15 million and they MAY get $10 million from the BOS. Guess what? It all comes from the same pot of money-the taxpayer.

Any funds going to SOCO are not going somewhere else. Period.

What is happening on the lawsuit front? Any hope?

Liz is a liar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz assured the West Springfield PTA that they are
> not in competition with SOCO for
> funds.....hahahahahaha. I hope the PTA is not
> that gullible.
>
> Oh sure the SOCO Middle Solution Group Nazis will
> tell you about their "creative financing". Give
> me a break. They took $2 million from BRAC
> planning, they are selling land to a developer for
> $15 million and they MAY get $10 million from the
> BOS. Guess what? It all comes from the same pot
> of money-the taxpayer.
>
> Any funds going to SOCO are not going somewhere
> else. Period.

----------
True. The Lakes Braddock and South Lakes and EVERY other renovation down the pike were delayed by an average of two years because CIP funds had to pay back the "Economic Development Bonds" that "creatively financed" the building of SCSS when it bumped in line ahead of everyone else.

CIP money even paid MILLIONS for a ROAD next to the school.

ALL the students in "overcrowded" SCSS could have been accommodated in Mt Vernon, Hayfield, etc - several schools have hundreds and hundreds of empty seats.

As for the $15 million in developer money - use the money to the benefit of ALL high school students.I propose it be spent on artificial turf at every FCPS high school football stadium, with whatever is left going to artificial turf fields at rec centers.

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kathy Smith and Phil were behind the secretive
> strategic governance. In essence they gave power
> back to Jack Dale so they could keep their hands
> clean for higher office...too bad

Where? who the hell is responsible for what happens in FCPS? The elected school board! They can try to foist it off on staff, but they are responsible for their school system, warts and all.

GT lecture circuit? ESOL? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carol Horn the GT head might get paid on the
> lecture circuit. Her big schtick is increasing
> minorities in GT and she devised the rather fuzzy
> Young Scholars program. The academics and program
> are a lot fuzzier than it's counterparts in the
> private sector. Meanwhile, the achievement of
> Black students as a sub-group is lower than
> Richmond.
>
Young Scholars program has NO academic goals, none. The goal is only to get more Black students into GT centers. To that end it has worked. Carol and the GT selection committees have placed more Black and Hispanic children into GT centers. There are ZERO ways to measure if that has helped ANY Black student. Since there were only 9 Black kids who were accepted to TJ this year, despite their affirmative action program. Also despite Quest, a free, three year program for Blacks and Hispanics to prepare them for the TJ exam and despite the TJ test prep courses offered by the county. The administration has encouraged hundreds of Black students to apply to TJ. They have been successful at getting them to apply, but much less successful at educating them enough to be accepted into TJ. We can say that the many millions of dollars spent on Young Scholars has placed them into GT centers but failed to improve their education. Ditto Quest and the test prep courses. FCPS is spending 10's of millions of dollars, every year, to improve the education of Black students and their programs have failed, over and over. Yet, Carol Horn and her office continue to receive increased funding for Young Scholars, Quest, test prep, etc.

Why can FCPS not admit that their programs do not work, abandon them, and find proven methods that do work? How much lower do black scores have to go before FCPS does what Richmond, Newport News, Roanoke, and Norfolk (among others) do to educate Black and Hispanic students? Is FCPS just TOO ELITE to use programs that work? We're just TOO GOOD for that? Are Black and Hispanic kids stuck with this junk forever? Must taxpayers continue to pay millions for these failed programs forever?

It's not illegal for FCPS employees to sell their time and program ideas to other districts. Is it? Many school districts are looking for ways to get Blacks into GT programs while avoiding lawsuits. Carol Horn will make a bundle peddling her Young Scholars program across the country, assuming that none of those districts care if the children's education is improved, but only want the PC appearance of more Black kids in GT programs. Then they too can brag about having more Black kids in GT programs, just like FCPS! How special.

Program cuts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought Young Scholars got axed at the last
> budget round? I remember Hone voicing her utter
> disgust that YS was being cut and FLES was asking
> for more money.
>
> These SB members do a poor job of prioritizing
> programs. How can Smith possibly justify
> expanding FLES when so many minorities are
> underrepresented in GT? I honestly think she is
> stupid.
>
> As far as ESOL at SLHS-they should disclose
> numbers of students. I asked for the ESOL
> staffing formulas once from Teddy Pedaris's
> office-I will have to dig them out. The numbers
> are woefully inadequate. I recall there being 11
> dually certified ESL and SPED teachers, for a
> population of like 4000??? And we wonder why these
> kids dropout and fail the SOLs at horrendous
> rates.

Nope. Young Scholars is NEVER cut, they get additional millions every year. This year they may not have gotten as many more millions as they requested, but they still got an increase. It has expanded every year, with ZERO evidence that it has helped educate a single black student.

How would you suggest that we get more Black students into GT programs? And how would that help to educate them? Why not simply educate ALL Black students so that they could at least be functioning at grade level?

FLES is a dumb program. The majority of parents told the school board that, but they didn't care. Staff thinks it's cool, so the school board does too. The school board works for the administration. Period.

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kathy Smith and Phil were behind the secretive
> strategic governance. In essence they gave power
> back to Jack Dale so they could keep their hands
> clean for higher office...too bad

Any other school board member, especially Stu and Phil, can get her to go along with any dumb thing they want.

Strategic Governance is a dumb idea, and huge waste of money, that just gets worse and worse, yet we're stuck with it, like every other silly thing they adopt. Why do we let them have so much money to waste on this kind of junk?

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Re - Young Scholars program. It certainly does
> have a feel good notion to it. Query whether it
> works. My guess is that it doesn't, despite its
> good intentions.
>
> I recall reading a recent study about self esteem
> in students. Not surprisingly, it concluded that
> Asian students actually have a fairly low self
> esteem, while other minority students quite often
> had an inflated sense of the same. I say not
> surprising because serious students invariably
> relate that the more they know, the more they know
> about what they don't know (in fact, one of the
> great things about higher education at its highest
> levels is that one gets to live that principle
> every day).
>
> What matters is competence in reading and
> computation, above all else. And no amount of
> self esteem building will accomplish it - just
> hard work, and successful repetition. I feel
> badly for those who follow the self-esteem course
> - they must feel righteous about their acts -
> inasmuch as they are doing "something" - but in
> the end, results, and not merely a presence in a
> seat or classroom, matters.

Yes, jails are full of people with very high self esteem who think hard work is beneath them and they are smart enough to get away with crimes.

Young Scholars meets its goals every year because the ONLY goal is to get more Black students into GT centers. There are NO academic goals for the program. None. The goal was to find a way to increase the number of Blacks and Hispanics into the GT centers, and, although not stated, to do so without a lawsuit. Since GT center population has increased from 4.5% of the population to 14.5% of the population, the number of Black students has increased. Couple that with a fairly aggressive selection of Black students for the GT centers, Young Scholars has met its goals. Unfortunately, there are no ways to measure the academic success of those Black students selected for the centers. Since only 9 Black students were selected for TJ this year, I would have to say that Young Scholars has not been successful in educating Black students at any higher level than in the past, despite the many millions of dollars spent on the program over the last decade.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> despite the many millions of dollars spent on the
> program over the last decade.

Young Scholars has been around for a decade? I have only heard about it for the past few years, which would mean we wouldn't see the TJ affect for a bit. What year did it start? And again, in the budget it did appear to be cut, not just decreasing additional funding.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since only 9 Black students were selected for TJ
> this year, I would have to say that Young Scholars
> has not been successful in educating Black
> students at any higher level than in the past,
> despite the many millions of dollars spent on the
> program over the last decade.

But the counter-argument would be that you cannot measure the success of GT Centers solely by the # of admissions to TJ, but would have to include the success of these students at other high schools in FCPS. There needs to be an effort to assess and quantify the "success" (however that is defined) of GT Centers as well as Local Level IV services at base schools. And, once it is measured (whever that might be), the information should be made *easily* available to the public (e.g., on the FCPS GT web site and not through a FOIA request).

IMO QUEST is a joke simply because who I see participating. While I am sure that there are less advantaged Hispanic students from areas like Hybla Valley and Annandale, why does it seem like many of the children in the program are simply taking advantage of the system? I have seen at least 15 Robinson students over the past few years involved with QUEST who have Hispanic heritage, but are as white as anyone I know and come from families making upwards of $150K. These students must distort the program's results since nearly all of these kids are full IB with essentially unlimited financial resources and highly engaged and involved parents.

I would expect QUEST to be geared towards partially acculturated families, not those where either both parents were born and raised in the US and attended college or at least immigrated to the US 15-20 years ago and have established a solid financial footing and community ties. Why does a girl whose mother was born in Puerto Rico, who has successful dental practice, get into QUEST? What about the girls whose mother came here from Guatemala and father came here from Afghanistan and now own a 12-store carpet company? They don't need QUEST and are taking advantage of a program.

Any idea as to the admission criteria for the YS program? Pinellas County Florida - a jurisdiction I have been following for years and for personal reasons happen to know something about - has a 130 IQ cut-off score for its GT program. Pinellas, however, does lower that bar by 20 or so points for certain minority groups - with predictably dismal results. One can posit that too much is made of IQ scores - and I think that is accurate - but to expect kids to compete with others several standard deviations higher in terms of measured cognitive capacity (flawed as that test may be) is folly. It feels and looks good - but it also mismatches kids in a detrimental way. Query what Fairfax is doing in terms of its GT admission criteria, and more importantly, the results? One would think (??) that at the very least all GT students would have a relatively easy time passing the SOL's and that absent a rare event - such as a significant illness or flu on test day, every GT student, irrespective of ethnicity, easily passes. I say this because in my experience the GT kids (good students who fall a bit short of the GT qualification) more or less pass the SOL's by osmosis without any unusual effort - so I would assume (or maybe I should not) that the experience with Young Scholars is the same? In any event, if the schools are to engage in racial preference programs (something I disagree with), then they should be rather transparent about the results that these programs bring about (or don't) - and in that vein I echo the above poster's call for transparency and accountability.

Doesn't FCPS do those QPAS reports on programs such as Young Scholars and Quest? It seems we should be quantifying the success of these programs or moving on to something else. The reports I saw were from 2005-is FCPS sitting on them or do they just not evaluate their programs anymore?

In a meeting with Dr. Monusko (I know I spelled it wrong), I asked him why we weren't looking at other school districts like Richmond, Va Beach where they have had success in raising scores for minorities. The answer was basically that this individualized curriculum that they use would not work with our "other" students-so FCPS is basically inert and stupified as to how to integrate this program into our curiculumn so we can try to help these struggling students.

Once again, FCPS focuses on their high and middle achieveing students and everyone else is supposed to just continue to struggle and/or fail.

The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL Advocate) writes today about the great party SL had honoring those that "spoke up" in support of the redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do people honor themselves for tearing apart neighborhoods and taking away choice? These students are basically saying that anyone who disagreed with them should not have free speech - catch that one girl's comment about parents saying things about SL even though "they knew we were in the room." So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just because some kids are in the same meeting?

And they say they expect 130 kids to come from the raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to throw up. After reading this incredibly insulting article I can't imagine anyone showing up.

Program evaluations - maybe the blunt and politically incorrect answer - if it ever could be uttered - is that FCPS is unwilling to adopt the curricula that Richmond et. al use because to do so - given the factor of the "other students" - would be to impose a form of de facto segregation within the schools - and that would incredibly painful and uncomfortable - not to mention it might put groups such as the NAACP at your door - who never really like the niceties of cause and effect and instead look to disparate impacts wherever they may exist. In this regard I have some sympathy for the schools - yet at the same time am waiting for someone to have enough guts to be honest.

Again, even any anecdotal evidence on the efficacy Young Scholars program? I assume at least an easy SOL pass rate.

Disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL Advocate)
> writes today about the great party SL had honoring
> those that "spoke up" in support of the
> redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do people
> honor themselves for tearing apart neighborhoods
> and taking away choice? These students are
> basically saying that anyone who disagreed with
> them should not have free speech - catch that one
> girl's comment about parents saying things about
> SL even though "they knew we were in the room."
> So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just because
> some kids are in the same meeting?
>
> And they say they expect 130 kids to come from the
> raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to throw
> up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> article I can't imagine anyone showing up.


I too read the article and can't fathom what the article has just mentioned. Sorry, but the tone of the party, it sounded "gloating" or something to that effect. A party for the speakers advocating the redistricting? There was a quote by Principal Butler saying change is always difficult, but he sees it as a process. One group loses and the other wins. It is too bad there has been no compromise from this redistricting.

program evaluations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doesn't FCPS do those QPAS reports on programs
> such as Young Scholars and Quest? It seems we
> should be quantifying the success of these
> programs or moving on to something else. The
> reports I saw were from 2005-is FCPS sitting on
> them or do they just not evaluate their programs
> anymore?
>
> In a meeting with Dr. Monusko (I know I spelled it
> wrong), I asked him why we weren't looking at
> other school districts like Richmond, Va Beach
> where they have had success in raising scores for
> minorities. The answer was basically that this
> individualized curriculum that they use would not
> work with our "other" students-so FCPS is
> basically inert and stupified as to how to
> integrate this program into our curiculumn so we
> can try to help these struggling students.
>
> Once again, FCPS focuses on their high and middle
> achieveing students and everyone else is supposed
> to just continue to struggle and/or fail.

FYI

Richard.Moniuszko@fcps.edu

This whole south lakes high school RD is a nightmare that does not end. These RD areas were totally screwed and have been left to pick up pieces and move out.

Robin Hood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Disgusted Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL Advocate)
> > writes today about the great party SL had
> honoring
> > those that "spoke up" in support of the
> > redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do
> people
> > honor themselves for tearing apart
> neighborhoods
> > and taking away choice? These students are
> > basically saying that anyone who disagreed with
> > them should not have free speech - catch that
> one
> > girl's comment about parents saying things
> about
> > SL even though "they knew we were in the room."
>
> > So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just
> because
> > some kids are in the same meeting?
> >
> > And they say they expect 130 kids to come from
> the
> > raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to
> throw
> > up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> > article I can't imagine anyone showing up.
>
>
> I too read the article and can't fathom what the
> article has just mentioned. Sorry, but the tone
> of the party, it sounded "gloating" or something
> to that effect. A party for the speakers
> advocating the redistricting? There was a quote
> by Principal Butler saying change is always
> difficult, but he sees it as a process. One group
> loses and the other wins. It is too bad there has
> been no compromise from this redistricting.

Mike Sorce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMO QUEST is a joke simply because who I see
> participating. While I am sure that there are
> less advantaged Hispanic students from areas like
> Hybla Valley and Annandale, why does it seem like
> many of the children in the program are simply
> taking advantage of the system? I have seen at
> least 15 Robinson students over the past few years
> involved with QUEST who have Hispanic heritage,
> but are as white as anyone I know and come from
> families making upwards of $150K. These students
> must distort the program's results since nearly
> all of these kids are full IB with essentially
> unlimited financial resources and highly engaged
> and involved parents.
>
> I would expect QUEST to be geared towards
> partially acculturated families, not those where
> either both parents were born and raised in the US
> and attended college or at least immigrated to the
> US 15-20 years ago and have established a solid
> financial footing and community ties. Why does a
> girl whose mother was born in Puerto Rico, who has
> successful dental practice, get into QUEST? What
> about the girls whose mother came here from
> Guatemala and father came here from Afghanistan
> and now own a 12-store carpet company? They don't
> need QUEST and are taking advantage of a program.

I agree that all of these special programs should be based on something other than race. There are plenty of white and Asian students who are poor and deserving of something. A Black child, the daughter of two medical doctors, should not be eligible for all of these special programs solely because of skin color. But that is how all affirmative action programs work. They care about race only. Rich Black kids are the students who benefit the most by affirmative action when they apply to college. The colleges are not dragging in poor black kids to attend their schools. They don't care about income, or parental background, they care about skin color. Period.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2008 10:28PM by Neen.

how long? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > despite the many millions of dollars spent on
> the
> > program over the last decade.
>
> Young Scholars has been around for a decade? I
> have only heard about it for the past few years,
> which would mean we wouldn't see the TJ affect for
> a bit. What year did it start? And again, in the
> budget it did appear to be cut, not just
> decreasing additional funding.

The program began 9 or 10 years ago. I know that ONE Young Scholar was accepted into TJ last year. I don't know about this year's TJ class. I don't know if any of the 9 Black students who were accepted were Young scholars.

The Young Scholars program will not be eliminated. The program expands every year. The usual annual increase may have been eliminated, meaning that it cannot expand to more schools, but that does not mean the program will be eliminated. The annual increase may have been eliminated, but not the program. They'll just have to get by with the current number of schools participating. Since we have no idea if Young Scholars has ever helped to improve the education of any Black student, it is hard to justify the usual millions increase year after year.

BraddockDistrict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since only 9 Black students were selected for
> TJ
> > this year, I would have to say that Young
> Scholars
> > has not been successful in educating Black
> > students at any higher level than in the past,
> > despite the many millions of dollars spent on
> the
> > program over the last decade.
>
> But the counter-argument would be that you cannot
> measure the success of GT Centers solely by the #
> of admissions to TJ, but would have to include the
> success of these students at other high schools in
> FCPS. There needs to be an effort to assess and
> quantify the "success" (however that is defined)
> of GT Centers as well as Local Level IV services
> at base schools. And, once it is measured (whever
> that might be), the information should be made
> *easily* available to the public (e.g., on the
> FCPS GT web site and not through a FOIA request).

How do we judge if Young Scholars has done anything to help Black students? Judging from SOL scores, and TJ admissions, nothing much has changed for those students.

You are right, we should have that information. There should be some way to measure a program's success, academic success, and not just placements into GT centers.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any idea as to the admission criteria for the YS
> program? Pinellas County Florida - a jurisdiction
> I have been following for years and for personal
> reasons happen to know something about - has a 130
> IQ cut-off score for its GT program. Pinellas,
> however, does lower that bar by 20 or so points
> for certain minority groups - with predictably
> dismal results. One can posit that too much is
> made of IQ scores - and I think that is accurate -
> but to expect kids to compete with others several
> standard deviations higher in terms of measured
> cognitive capacity (flawed as that test may be) is
> folly. It feels and looks good - but it also
> mismatches kids in a detrimental way. Query what
> Fairfax is doing in terms of its GT admission
> criteria, and more importantly, the results? One
> would think (??) that at the very least all GT
> students would have a relatively easy time passing
> the SOL's and that absent a rare event - such as a
> significant illness or flu on test day, every GT
> student, irrespective of ethnicity, easily passes.
> I say this because in my experience the GT kids
> (good students who fall a bit short of the GT
> qualification) more or less pass the SOL's by
> osmosis without any unusual effort - so I would
> assume (or maybe I should not) that the experience
> with Young Scholars is the same? In any event, if
> the schools are to engage in racial preference
> programs (something I disagree with), then they
> should be rather transparent about the results
> that these programs bring about (or don't) - and
> in that vein I echo the above poster's call for
> transparency and accountability.

We will never know how the Young Scholar students fare on SOLs. I don't think that even the GT office knows. It's not something they follow since there are no academic goals for the students.

Young Scholars is all about "nurturing" young children, of certain races, whose intellectual gifts have not yet emerged. They are nurturing potential. Whatever that means.
http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt/ys.htm

program evaluations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doesn't FCPS do those QPAS reports on programs
> such as Young Scholars and Quest? It seems we
> should be quantifying the success of these
> programs or moving on to something else. The
> reports I saw were from 2005-is FCPS sitting on
> them or do they just not evaluate their programs
> anymore?
>
> In a meeting with Dr. Monusko (I know I spelled it
> wrong), I asked him why we weren't looking at
> other school districts like Richmond, Va Beach
> where they have had success in raising scores for
> minorities. The answer was basically that this
> individualized curriculum that they use would not
> work with our "other" students-so FCPS is
> basically inert and stupified as to how to
> integrate this program into our curiculumn so we
> can try to help these struggling students.
>
> Once again, FCPS focuses on their high and middle
> achieveing students and everyone else is supposed
> to just continue to struggle and/or fail.

Yes, Yes, FCPS is too superior to use the methods that have worked throughout the rest of the state to educate minority students. They seem to believe that. They don't care if their methods don't work, they BELIEVE in them, it's what 'people like us' do. They ignore the results.

The goal of Quest is to get more Black and Hispanic students into TJ. I feel sorry for those children who have to spend their Saturday's going to Quest, for THREE years, when it obviously doesn't work. It's high time they tried something else. But they won't.

Why can't FCPS EVER abandon programs that do not work? Once a program is adopted, we're stuck with it. Forever.

Young Scholars has met its goal. It has placed more students into GT centers, which was/is the only goal. Of course most GT centers now have remedial classes for basic English and math.

Disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL Advocate)
> writes today about the great party SL had honoring
> those that "spoke up" in support of the
> redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do people
> honor themselves for tearing apart neighborhoods
> and taking away choice? These students are
> basically saying that anyone who disagreed with
> them should not have free speech - catch that one
> girl's comment about parents saying things about
> SL even though "they knew we were in the room."
> So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just because
> some kids are in the same meeting?
>
> And they say they expect 130 kids to come from the
> raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to throw
> up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> article I can't imagine anyone showing up.

Hahahahaha.........Butler meant 130 total, over the next 4 years. And, surprise, surprise, they won't be the kids on the top who have parents who are savvy enough to pupil place or the money for private school.

The Young Scholars will be followed to see how many take Honors and AP courses in middle and high school. No high school has a GT program, Honors, AP/IB are all opt-in open enrollment classes not "in" by identification. They should be able to tell how many students identified with GT potential early on go on to take challenging courses in high school. Young Scholars is for data collection purposes.

Young Scholars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Young Scholars will be followed to see how
> many take Honors and AP courses in middle and high
> school. No high school has a GT program, Honors,
> AP/IB are all opt-in open enrollment classes not
> "in" by identification. They should be able to
> tell how many students identified with GT
> potential early on go on to take challenging
> courses in high school. Young Scholars is for
> data collection purposes.

Oh really? Does Carol Horn know about this? Does she know her program is for data collection purposes? That is nowhere in the stated goals of the program. Nor have I ever heard her say that they students course load in high school would be noted.

Is there a control group of Black students who were not in Young Scholars? Will they be followed to see how they compare to YS in high school? I am wondering why SOl scores and SAT scores, grades, and other concrete measures, aren't being looked at, beginning in elementary school.

Oh, wait. I know the answer. Those things have nothing to do with the goals of YS. Nor does high school performance or courses taken in high school.

Yes, really. Carol Horn talks about following Young Scholars through high school to see if they take Honors/AP courses all the time-are you not listening? Janine, Neen or whatever name you are going by now; for someone on GTAC (appointed by Stu) you really need to pay attention better. You are spouting misinformation along with your hatred. Your last sentence says it all, in that you "think" you know the answer. You clearly, do not.

Disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL Advocate)
> writes today about the great party SL had honoring
> those that "spoke up" in support of the
> redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do people
> honor themselves for tearing apart neighborhoods
> and taking away choice? These students are
> basically saying that anyone who disagreed with
> them should not have free speech - catch that one
> girl's comment about parents saying things about
> SL even though "they knew we were in the room."
> So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just because
> some kids are in the same meeting?
>
> And they say they expect 130 kids to come from the
> raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to throw
> up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> article I can't imagine anyone showing up.



Oh shut up and get a life. Raped neighborhoods? Puullllleeeaazze. What a narrow little village you occupy.

The RDed areas are like the occupied areas by the invading south lakes boundary army with the Stu Gibson as the General. The stream of refugees are the pupil placed and moving students.


Boundary Warrior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Disgusted Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL Advocate)
> > writes today about the great party SL had
> honoring
> > those that "spoke up" in support of the
> > redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do
> people
> > honor themselves for tearing apart
> neighborhoods
> > and taking away choice? These students are
> > basically saying that anyone who disagreed with
> > them should not have free speech - catch that
> one
> > girl's comment about parents saying things
> about
> > SL even though "they knew we were in the room."
>
> > So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just
> because
> > some kids are in the same meeting?
> >
> > And they say they expect 130 kids to come from
> the
> > raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to
> throw
> > up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> > article I can't imagine anyone showing up.
>
>
>
> Oh shut up and get a life. Raped neighborhoods?
> Puullllleeeaazze. What a narrow little village
> you occupy.

Young scholars - OK - I think it is a good thing if the progress of YS is followed to track the taking of AP or Honors courses - and of course, to see how well YS do in them.

But inasmuch as YS are being admitted to a GT program, surely they are operating well above the SOL pass level. And if that is the case (and can easily be verified), there are interim, other measures available other than high school AP matriculation? Can anyone observe incremental improvement? I can imagine that the program's costs are not trivial, and with the budget constraints as they are, having good intent (and I do not doubt that) is not a sufficient cause to spend money.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Young scholars - OK - I think it is a good thing
> if the progress of YS is followed to track the
> taking of AP or Honors courses - and of course, to
> see how well YS do in them.
>
> But inasmuch as YS are being admitted to a GT
> program, surely they are operating well above the
> SOL pass level. And if that is the case (and can
> easily be verified), there are interim, other
> measures available other than high school AP
> matriculation? Can anyone observe incremental
> improvement? I can imagine that the program's
> costs are not trivial, and with the budget
> constraints as they are, having good intent (and I
> do not doubt that) is not a sufficient cause to
> spend money.

I saw in the budget brief descriptions of both Quest and YS. It is my understanding that YS is geared towards increasing participation in GT centers at the ES and MS level, and Quest towards increasing participation in Honors, AP and IB courses in HS.

Thus, you would want to focus on the GT stats for YS, and perhaps another data point instead of only SOLs, would be to look at increased participation in those students taking Algebra in MS.

In looking at Quest, the obvious data would be increased participation in the courses it is geared towards.

Just move. They can redistrict houses, not homes. They will never get my kids.

occupied south lakes neighbour Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The RDed areas are like the occupied areas by the
> invading south lakes boundary army with the Stu
> Gibson as the General. The stream of refugees are
> the pupil placed and moving students.
>
>
> Boundary Warrior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Disgusted Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL
> Advocate)
> > > writes today about the great party SL had
> > honoring
> > > those that "spoke up" in support of the
> > > redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do
> > people
> > > honor themselves for tearing apart
> > neighborhoods
> > > and taking away choice? These students are
> > > basically saying that anyone who disagreed
> with
> > > them should not have free speech - catch that
> > one
> > > girl's comment about parents saying things
> > about
> > > SL even though "they knew we were in the
> room."
> >
> > > So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just
> > because
> > > some kids are in the same meeting?
> > >
> > > And they say they expect 130 kids to come
> from
> > the
> > > raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to
> > throw
> > > up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> > > article I can't imagine anyone showing up.
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh shut up and get a life. Raped
> neighborhoods?
> > Puullllleeeaazze. What a narrow little village
> > you occupy.

occupied south lakes neighbour Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The RDed areas are like the occupied areas by the
> invading south lakes boundary army with the Stu
> Gibson as the General. The stream of refugees are
> the pupil placed and moving students.
>
>
> Boundary Warrior Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Disgusted Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL
> Advocate)
> > > writes today about the great party SL had
> > honoring
> > > those that "spoke up" in support of the
> > > redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do
> > people
> > > honor themselves for tearing apart
> > neighborhoods
> > > and taking away choice? These students are
> > > basically saying that anyone who disagreed
> with
> > > them should not have free speech - catch that
> > one
> > > girl's comment about parents saying things
> > about
> > > SL even though "they knew we were in the
> room."
> >
> > > So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just
> > because
> > > some kids are in the same meeting?
> > >
> > > And they say they expect 130 kids to come
> from
> > the
> > > raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to
> > throw
> > > up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> > > article I can't imagine anyone showing up.
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh shut up and get a life. Raped
> neighborhoods?
> > Puullllleeeaazze. What a narrow little village
> > you occupy.


And the black marketeers and the Ghorbanifar arms traders are the attorneys making all that dough-re-mi on the lawsuits.

Greed is the root cause of all problems. South Lakes got a 60 million dollar renovation and they still wanted more resources. This started off this bitter dispute, where south lakes is trying to benefit at the expense of these RD families.

Boundary Warrior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> occupied south lakes neighbour Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The RDed areas are like the occupied areas by
> the
> > invading south lakes boundary army with the Stu
> > Gibson as the General. The stream of refugees
> are
> > the pupil placed and moving students.
> >
> >
> > Boundary Warrior Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Disgusted Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > The Herndon Connection (I mean the SL
> > Advocate)
> > > > writes today about the great party SL had
> > > honoring
> > > > those that "spoke up" in support of the
> > > > redistriciting. It is foul. Since when do
> > > people
> > > > honor themselves for tearing apart
> > > neighborhoods
> > > > and taking away choice? These students are
> > > > basically saying that anyone who disagreed
> > with
> > > > them should not have free speech - catch
> that
> > > one
> > > > girl's comment about parents saying things
> > > about
> > > > SL even though "they knew we were in the
> > room."
> > >
> > > > So what!!!! Now we can't "speak up" just
> > > because
> > > > some kids are in the same meeting?
> > > >
> > > > And they say they expect 130 kids to come
> > from
> > > the
> > > > raped neighborhoods - seriously? I want to
> > > throw
> > > > up. After reading this incredibly insulting
> > > > article I can't imagine anyone showing up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh shut up and get a life. Raped
> > neighborhoods?
> > > Puullllleeeaazze. What a narrow little
> village
> > > you occupy.
>
>
> And the black marketeers and the Ghorbanifar arms
> traders are the attorneys making all that
> dough-re-mi on the lawsuits.

WTOP reports:

Va. earns top score for academic standards
May 30, 2008 - 6:21pm

NEWPORT NEWS, Va. - A national teacher's union that grades state's academic standards gives Virginia a perfect score in a new report.

The American Federation of Teachers' report examines states' academic standards as required by the federal No Child Left Behind law.

Virginia was the only state to earn a perfect score.

States are evaluated for clarity, specificity and content of their standards.

Virginia met 100 percent of the criteria for its Standards of Learning in English, math, science and history at all grade levels and in all subject areas.

Virginia was also one of three states recognized for creating specific standards for U.S. and world history into the early elementary grades.

--Any comments out there?

Virginia might have met the criteria, but what are the students making on the test? The math and science scores are nothing to write home and brag about.

Young Scholars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, really. Carol Horn talks about following
> Young Scholars through high school to see if they
> take Honors/AP courses all the time-are you not
> listening? Janine, Neen or whatever name you are
> going by now; for someone on GTAC (appointed by
> Stu) you really need to pay attention better. You
> are spouting misinformation along with your
> hatred. Your last sentence says it all, in that
> you "think" you know the answer. You clearly, do
> not.

My goodness, YOU certainly think that you know alot. Perhaps you could share with us what Carol means when she says she's going to 'follow' the Young Scholars through high school? What has she decided will prove the success of the program? Without a control group of students who were not in Young Scholars, how will her observations have any validity?

How have Young Scholars done in middle school, compared to Blacks who were not Young Scholars? Or is there some other way to determine the success of this program. Since you know so much, perhaps you could share those measurements with us. Just how is it determined that Young Scholars has helped Black children? And why was that not stated as a goal of the program?

Thanks so much.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Young scholars - OK - I think it is a good thing
> if the progress of YS is followed to track the
> taking of AP or Honors courses - and of course, to
> see how well YS do in them.
>
> But inasmuch as YS are being admitted to a GT
> program, surely they are operating well above the
> SOL pass level. And if that is the case (and can
> easily be verified), there are interim, other
> measures available other than high school AP
> matriculation? Can anyone observe incremental
> improvement? I can imagine that the program's
> costs are not trivial, and with the budget
> constraints as they are, having good intent (and I
> do not doubt that) is not a sufficient cause to
> spend money.

I have no doubt that Carol Horn will report many anecdotal stories about how well some Young Scholars are doing in IB and AP courses. How will we know that these same students wouldn't being just as well without ever having been in the Young Scholars program?

We have no idea if Young Scholars are doing well on SOL tests. We've asked, repeatedly. We've been told that is not being measured, or observed, as it's not a goal of the program. There are NO academic measurements of the program. But Carol Horn does hear from some guidance counselors and teachers who tell her that some of the Young Scholars are doing well. For whatever that's worth.

Quest vs YS Wrote:
It is my understanding that YS is
> geared towards increasing participation in GT
> centers at the ES and MS level, and Quest towards
> increasing participation in Honors, AP and IB
> courses in HS.
>
> Thus, you would want to focus on the GT stats for
> YS, and perhaps another data point instead of only
> SOLs, would be to look at increased participation
> in those students taking Algebra in MS.
>
> In looking at Quest, the obvious data would be
> increased participation in the courses it is
> geared towards.

Quest was set up to get more Black Students into TJ. It was a three year program, beginning in 5th grade, to prepare Black and Hispanic students for the TJ test. Has it been expanded to prepare them for Honors and IB/AP courses? One wonders why their elementary and middle school classes aren't preparing them to take those courses in high school.

When you say increased participation in those courses, do you mean more Young Scholars and Quest students taking those courses, than Blacks and Hispanics who did not receive the Young Scholars and Quest programs? Has staff tracked that? Are there any published links?

It would be nice if staff offered some concrete evidence that those programs help Black students.

edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Virginia might have met the criteria, but what are
> the students making on the test? The math and
> science scores are nothing to write home and brag
> about.

Higher standards are better than lower standards, even if the public schools haven't yet cared enough to meet them.

Now calling for higher standards will only rile South Lakes supporters. They only want to classify in terms of "good" education. If we set standards, the next step will be to rank schools based on them and that is a problem point for South Lakes Supporters.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> edna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Virginia might have met the criteria, but what
> are
> > the students making on the test? The math and
> > science scores are nothing to write home and
> brag
> > about.
>
> Higher standards are better than lower standards,
> even if the public schools haven't yet cared
> enough to meet them.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quest vs YS Wrote:
> It is my understanding that YS is
> > geared towards increasing participation in GT
> > centers at the ES and MS level, and Quest
> towards
> > increasing participation in Honors, AP and IB
> > courses in HS.
> >
> > Thus, you would want to focus on the GT stats
> for
> > YS, and perhaps another data point instead of
> only
> > SOLs, would be to look at increased
> participation
> > in those students taking Algebra in MS.
> >
> > In looking at Quest, the obvious data would be
> > increased participation in the courses it is
> > geared towards.
>
> Quest was set up to get more Black Students into
> TJ. It was a three year program, beginning in 5th
> grade, to prepare Black and Hispanic students for
> the TJ test. Has it been expanded to prepare them
> for Honors and IB/AP courses? One wonders why
> their elementary and middle school classes aren't
> preparing them to take those courses in high
> school.
>
> When you say increased participation in those
> courses, do you mean more Young Scholars and Quest
> students taking those courses, than Blacks and
> Hispanics who did not receive the Young Scholars
> and Quest programs? Has staff tracked that? Are
> there any published links?
>
> It would be nice if staff offered some concrete
> evidence that those programs help Black students.

Did FCPS design these programs more for low income hispanic immigrants rather than come up with standard curriculum that would result in greater achievement for African Americans? FCPS did a parental satisfaction survey showing highest for Black and Hispanic parents. Many other parents do a lot of supplementing in the early grades because of the fuzzy curriculum.

That suggests the happy parents aren't doing that and rely more on FCPS. Google "crayola curriculum" and read the article. Monuzko [?] is blowing smoke when he talks about what works in Richmond not good for all students in fairfax. Those schools might be doing in school what parents here are doing outside of school and FCPS takes the credit.

Everyday math is a crock and so is the FCPS radical whole language approach. These bozos have no idea what lots of parents do at home.

Add to it the weird assignments graded on picture content, lack of reading groups with different materials, group projects, grade inflation.

YS differs from school to school and should be only in grades K-2. Other than YS most kids in K-2 don't get GT resource. After that FCPS has GTc and level iv. What's happening in those classrooms that FCPS also needs to run YS? If a school has small class sizes what is the teacher doing that they need extra GT resource teachers? Why not use the budgeted money to have smaller class sizes in elementary schools?

Horn has had virtually a blank check. Some elementary schools have so many extra programs I can't imagine how the teacher can run reading or math groups [not that FCPS promotes ability grouping] or schedule solid blocks of time for core instruction.

read this blurb on the Graham Rd project including the item moving pull-outs and special academic stuff to what used to be considered after school:

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/d62d9cb847ef1cbd87257328006795e4/338de05d2c7a4c92872574160066f5b8/$FILE/GRESRecJan2007.pdf

Why isn't YS done only at Title 1 elementary schools or schools that meet other defined requirements like the K-3 Virginia reduced ratio schools? Why isn't the money used to keep the ratios lower in 4-6? The class size increase impacts those schools too so why fund the appetizers heavily and remove the meat from the meal?

Not 1 school board memebr requested break outs on cost for class size increases at elementary, middle, and high school. Middle and high schools have more room to absorb class size increases IF they remove low load or consolidate electives that drive core class scheduling.

Thank you for the compliment Janine, Neen, or whatever other forum names you are currently using. You are right I DO know information about Young Scholars and am offended by your half truths, mistruths, and general slander of anything you choose to sound knowledgable about when it is clear to many of us that you are blowing smoke. I would encourage posters who want to know more about the model called Young Scholars to check out this website http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt Please do not rely on Neen for factual information; she has made it quite clear that she has many personal vendettas against FCPS, school board members, and FCPS personnel. If you still have questions, call Dr. Carol Horn at the GT office in Annandale. She will take your call and give you first hand information that is truthful, unlike much of what Neen posts on this FFU site.

Young Scholars does not involve any extra personnel during the school year so there are no positions to move people teaching young scholars to lowering class sizes at other grade levels. Young Scholars are identified by the school's GT Specialist and she/he would monitor their progress through the elementary grades. Occasionally a principal will buy part of a GT teacher's contract from school flexible spending money and they can then use that person for whatever the principal wants including Young Scholars but FCPS does not fund positions for YS teachers (other than the former YS summer school which is not happening this year due to budget cuts).

I am laughing HYSTERICALLY over the fact that there are STILL people commenting on this redistricting!

I commented back in February, about how ridiculous this all was, and defending my school (I am a student at South Lakes).

GET OVER IT.
The school board voted, schools are being redistricted.

Don't like it? Feel your kids are too good for our school?

Move.
We don't want your negativity anyway.

Young Scholars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for the compliment Janine, Neen, or
> whatever other forum names you are currently
> using. You are right I DO know information about
> Young Scholars and am offended by your half
> truths, mistruths, and general slander of anything
> you choose to sound knowledgable about when it is
> clear to many of us that you are blowing smoke. I
> would encourage posters who want to know more
> about the model called Young Scholars to check out
> this website http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt Please do
> not rely on Neen for factual information; she has
> made it quite clear that she has many personal
> vendettas against FCPS, school board members, and
> FCPS personnel. If you still have questions, call
> Dr. Carol Horn at the GT office in Annandale. She
> will take your call and give you first hand
> information that is truthful, unlike much of what
> Neen posts on this FFU site.
>
> Young Scholars does not involve any extra
> personnel during the school year so there are no
> positions to move people teaching young scholars
> to lowering class sizes at other grade levels.
> Young Scholars are identified by the school's GT
> Specialist and she/he would monitor their progress
> through the elementary grades. Occasionally a
> principal will buy part of a GT teacher's contract
> from school flexible spending money and they can
> then use that person for whatever the principal
> wants including Young Scholars but FCPS does not
> fund positions for YS teachers (other than the
> former YS summer school which is not happening
> this year due to budget cuts).

FY2008 had $1,321,065 before summer school. If FCPS re-allocates GT resource teachers to YS either by changing the job function, limiting the clientele, or principals "buying " time , increasing flexibility reserves, then by whatever you care to call it employees are spending time working on YS during the school year.

There is no definitive program budget produced on Young Scholars combining all functions and funding sources. A budget question this year stated the following so clearly there is money spent on YS :

"CD# TW25 Question # 171
FY 2009
BUDGET INFORMATION FORM
School Board Member Requesting Information: Tessie Wilson
Answer Prepared By: Peter J. Noonan
Date Prepared: May 19, 2008
Question:
Are there changes to the Young Scholars summer program? (TW25 – Noonan)
Response:
In summer 2007, the summer school budget provided $392,214 for 90 summer school teachers,
45 Instructional Assistants, and 15 Lead Teachers for Young Scholars in 56 elementary
schools. An additional 15 classes were funded through Target Six money and a grant from the
Library of Congress for a total of 105 classes that served over 1,600 Young Scholars (YS). The
principals selected the teachers and there were two multi-age classes for each YS school (one
primary grade 1-3 and one upper grade 4-6).
For summer 2008, the funds for the Young Scholars summer program have been eliminated. It
is now up to each school to use one or more of their extended 208 day teacher contracts for a
Young Scholars summer school class if they are able to do so. There are no 208 day positions
specifically designated for Young Scholars.
The GT programs office will continue to supply the curriculum, professional development, and
materials to any school that uses a 208 day contract for a YS summer school class. This
summer 16 YS classes will be offered through 208 day contracts at 12 YS schools. An
additional 10 YS classes will be offered through funds from the Library of Congress grant and
the Office of Elementary Instruction is funding an additional 4 YS classes for a total of 30
classes serving approximately 540 students."
------------------------------------------------

That's summer so what about the school year? The program still has the same structure as FY2008 with at least 7 full-time position equivalents. Costs are obscurred by funding sources and the 208 day contracts. Retooling and Teacher leadship. Fuzzy program budget does not bode well in this or any other endeavor.

I have no argument with the premise of YS and am not Neen or whomever.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am laughing HYSTERICALLY over the fact that
> there are STILL people commenting on this
> redistricting!
>
> I commented back in February, about how ridiculous
> this all was, and defending my school (I am a
> student at South Lakes).
>
> GET OVER IT.
> The school board voted, schools are being
> redistricted.
>
> Don't like it? Feel your kids are too good for our
> school?
>
> Move.
> We don't want your negativity anyway.
********************************

Taylor, I sure hope you are some adult trying to pretend to be a SL student.

And if you are a SL student, I hope that your attitude will become a bit more understanding of the feelings of students who are being redistricted to SL.

The school board and the FCPS staff have caused IMMEASURABLE harm to students/parents in Fairfax County. I hope citizen will not forget in three years.

Taylor,

No posts of any interest about South Lakes or redistricting on this thread other than spoiled sports grumbling about their circumstances. The people posting here all have an axe to grind against the school system and no productive way to interact with the system to be heard. Others promote CAPS in hopes that people will throw money their way. Nothing of any value about redistricting is posted-only rehash. I would expect a few days after the lawsuit ends this thread should die out.

> I would expect a few days after the lawsuit ends this
> thread should die out.

Aww, c'mon, this is a great place for a bit of disembodied debate.

Young Scholars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Young Scholars does not involve any extra
> personnel during the school year so there are no
> positions to move people teaching young scholars
> to lowering class sizes at other grade levels.
> Young Scholars are identified by the school's GT
> Specialist and she/he would monitor their progress
> through the elementary grades. Occasionally a
> principal will buy part of a GT teacher's contract
> from school flexible spending money and they can
> then use that person for whatever the principal
> wants including Young Scholars but FCPS does not
> fund positions for YS teachers (other than the
> former YS summer school which is not happening
> this year due to budget cuts).

BRAVO! Thanks for setting the record straight!

Young Scholars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for the compliment Janine, Neen, or
> whatever other forum names you are currently
> using. You are right I DO know information about
> Young Scholars and am offended by your half
> truths, mistruths, and general slander of anything
> you choose to sound knowledgable about when it is
> clear to many of us that you are blowing smoke. I
> would encourage posters who want to know more
> about the model called Young Scholars to check out
> this website http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt Please do
> not rely on Neen for factual information; she has
> made it quite clear that she has many personal
> vendettas against FCPS, school board members, and
> FCPS personnel. If you still have questions, call
> Dr. Carol Horn at the GT office in Annandale. She
> will take your call and give you first hand
> information that is truthful, unlike much of what
> Neen posts on this FFU site.
>
> Young Scholars does not involve any extra
> personnel during the school year so there are no
> positions to move people teaching young scholars
> to lowering class sizes at other grade levels.
> Young Scholars are identified by the school's GT
> Specialist and she/he would monitor their progress
> through the elementary grades. Occasionally a
> principal will buy part of a GT teacher's contract
> from school flexible spending money and they can
> then use that person for whatever the principal
> wants including Young Scholars but FCPS does not
> fund positions for YS teachers (other than the
> former YS summer school which is not happening
> this year due to budget cuts).

Please provide specific instances where I have said something that is not factual. Some proof of your allegations would be appreciated.

To say that Young Scholars involves no extra personnel is not the truth. If it were, the program wouldn't need addition millions of dollars each year. Under your scenario, no extra funding would be needed when they expand YS to a new school. Additional resource teachers are needed for every YS that is opened. While they are not called YS teachers, but called GT resource teachers, they are in the school to administer the YS program. As another poster stated, they are not in the school for ALL students, but specifically for the YS program. If that were not true, why do they need an additional resource teacher whenever they open the YS program in a new school? And why would they need an additional million or more every year for the YS program? If that money isn't being used for teachers, perhaps you could share with us what it is being used for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2008 06:55PM by Neen.

Yes this war is lost. Even the most optimistic people on the outcome have thrown in the towel and put their houses on sale. Some have pupil placed. The gradual decline of these new RDed areas of Floris foxmill and MI has started with families with HS kids flee from these areas to other areas. The decline might be hastened if next year fox mill and Floris get negatively effected by coppermine RD. Pity, they were nice areas full of families with children.

yes this war is over Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes this war is lost. Even the most optimistic
> people on the outcome have thrown in the towel and
> put their houses on sale. Some have pupil placed.
> The gradual decline of these new RDed areas of
> Floris foxmill and MI has started with families
> with HS kids flee from these areas to other areas.
> The decline might be hastened if next year fox
> mill and Floris get negatively effected by
> coppermine RD. Pity, they were nice areas full of
> families with children.

This war will go on for years and SLHS will lose.

War will not end Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes this war is over Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes this war is lost. Even the most optimistic
> > people on the outcome have thrown in the towel
> and
> > put their houses on sale. Some have pupil
> placed.
> > The gradual decline of these new RDed areas of
> > Floris foxmill and MI has started with families
> > with HS kids flee from these areas to other
> areas.
> > The decline might be hastened if next year fox
> > mill and Floris get negatively effected by
> > coppermine RD. Pity, they were nice areas full
> of
> > families with children.
>
> This war will go on for years and SLHS will lose.


This war will go on for years and SLHS will lose?
What is this, Sparta?

I understand that it WILL be hard for some parents to have their kids goto South Lakes for numerous reasons, but whining about it on some internet message board, won't get you ANYWHERE. They voted, and the decision stands.

I'm a sophomore, and very interested to see how the new students coming to our school are going to act. There's a very positive atmosphere at SL, believe it or not, and I'd hate to see it completely ruined by students who don't even want to be here.

So like I said, don't wanna be at South Lakes?
Don't come.

If it's an issue, drive them.

You will see some students show up at SL this year because their parents have not been able to make alternate arrangements. No one from the RD areas want to go to South Lakes. If they had wanted, they would have bought houses in SL area. ( much cheaper than Oakton area ) Over the next years, once these parents have had time to react, these kids are not going to show up at SL. Do dont worry about unwilling kids showing up. Couple of School board members saying to parents where they should send their kids does not work in the free world. These people will make alternate arrangements.

Taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> War will not end Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yes this war is over Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Yes this war is lost. Even the most
> optimistic
> > > people on the outcome have thrown in the
> towel
> > and
> > > put their houses on sale. Some have pupil
> > placed.
> > > The gradual decline of these new RDed areas
> of
> > > Floris foxmill and MI has started with
> families
> > > with HS kids flee from these areas to other
> > areas.
> > > The decline might be hastened if next year
> fox
> > > mill and Floris get negatively effected by
> > > coppermine RD. Pity, they were nice areas
> full
> > of
> > > families with children.
> >
> > This war will go on for years and SLHS will
> lose.
>
>
> This war will go on for years and SLHS will lose?
> What is this, Sparta?
>
> I understand that it WILL be hard for some parents
> to have their kids goto South Lakes for numerous
> reasons, but whining about it on some internet
> message board, won't get you ANYWHERE. They voted,
> and the decision stands.
>
> I'm a sophomore, and very interested to see how
> the new students coming to our school are going to
> act. There's a very positive atmosphere at SL,
> believe it or not, and I'd hate to see it
> completely ruined by students who don't even want
> to be here.
>
> So like I said, don't wanna be at South Lakes?
> Don't come.
>
> If it's an issue, drive them.

Ta
>
>
> This war will go on for years and SLHS will lose?
> What is this, Sparta?
>
> I understand that it WILL be hard for some parents
> to have their kids goto South Lakes for numerous
> reasons, but whining about it on some internet
> message board, won't get you ANYWHERE. They voted,
> and the decision stands.
>
> I'm a sophomore, and very interested to see how
> the new students coming to our school are going to
> act. There's a very positive atmosphere at SL,
> believe it or not, and I'd hate to see it
> completely ruined by students who don't even want
> to be here.
>
> So like I said, don't wanna be at South Lakes?
> Don't come.
>
> If it's an issue, drive them.

Thanks Marie. Perhaps they can also eat cake, if they can't afford bread?

Unfortunately there are some students whose parents have to work and cannot afford to drive them to another high school, nor can they afford to buy a car for their children to drive themselves. Many new immigrant families work very hard but still don't make enough money to buy more cars for their children. Nor can they afford private schools. That's why they bought their houses in districts where they liked the schools. Now their children have to go to South Lakes. They don't want their children at South Lakes but they have no choice.
Those are the children who will be your new classmates next year, those who have no alternative to South Lakes. But many are still scrambling to find alternatives. It's impossible to know now how many will be successful, despite what Mr. Butler has said. He is not being responsible when he claims to know the number of students who will show up in September. He cannot possibly know that number now.

Re: UNnecessary middle school
Posted by: What does $25,000 buy? (IP Logged)
Date: June 01, 2008 08:15AM


Donor Profiles Top Donors Giving by Industry Giving by Occupation
printer-friendly

EnviroSolutions IncIndustry: Waste Disposal/Landfills

Location: Manassas
Money Out


From 2008 2007 through 2008 2007 (select all years )

All Candidates and Committees Legislative Candidates Statewide Candidates Local Candidates Party Committees PACs Inaugural Committees Referendum Committees Out-of-State Committees

Campaign Contribution(s) Totaling $24,500

Campaign
Contributions Committee

$20,000 Connolly for Fairfax County Board Chairman - Gerald
$4,500 Fairfax County Chamber of Commerce


What does $25,000 buy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Options: Reply To This Message•Quote This Message
Re: UNnecessary middle school
Posted by: Millions of dollars of profit for Env (IP Logged)
Date: June 01, 2008 08:20AM


This is what it buys. Millions of dollars of profit for EnviroSolutions, Inc.


Another Plan To Consider
Second plan has been submitted that may provide athletic fields, funding for a middle school in Lorton.

By Amer Healy
Wednesday, April 16, 2008


For the second time in two weeks, a proposal has been submitted to the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors that may provide, in addition to other benefits, another $10 million toward the construction of a middle school in Lorton.

On Friday, April 4, a proposal from Conrad Mehan, director of government and community relations for EnviroSolutions, was submitted to Supervisor Gerry Hyland (D-Mount Vernon) and Board Chairman Gerry Connolly (D-At large).

The unsolicited proposal includes a plan to trade two parcels of land owned by EnviroSolutions to the Board of Supervisors, so that the land could be turned into parks as a first phase. The second phase would include using the land currently designated as a possible site for a sportsplex facility as a temporary construction landfill until a time when the land is graded and used for a larger facility.

If the plan is approved, EnviroSolutions would also donate $10 million toward the construction of the middle school as soon as 2011, Mehan said.

EnviroSolutions has already submitted a plan to turn its existing construction demolition debris landfill, on Furnace Road just east of the Fairfax County municipal waste landfill, into a park once the landfill is capped in 2018, Mehan said.

EnviroSolutions owns two parcels of land adjacent to the landfill, which will be called Overlook Ridge Park, totaling about 28 acres.


IN THE COUNTY'S Comprehensive Plan, a 9-acre parcel of EnviroSolution's land has been designated for a recycling plant, which residents in the area have objected to, Mehan said.

"When we bought that land, we were told by many residents they were not happy to have a recycling plant there," Mehan said. "They were tired of all the industrial actions in the community."

By combining that land with the 17-acre parcel just above it, the Board of Supervisors could transfer that land to the Park Authority and turn it into parkland, possibly to include athletic fields.

"We could put six fields on that area of land relatively quickly, which would help provide fields the county needs," Mehan said.

One aspect of the deal that may cause some controversy involves the youth detention facility, a 27-acre parcel south of the county’s landfill.

According to the proposal, tearing down the existing facilities, removing the asbestos from the site and filling in the land to make it level with the ground around it, would cost about $11 million, Mehan said.

His proposal would fill the land, using it as a temporary construction demolition debris landfill for 20-30 years, at no cost to the county. Once that land was filled and triple-capped to prevent any ground water contamination, it would be sealed off and covered and, if the county still wanted a sportsplex, that site would be turned over for that use.

"The Park Authority came to us with this problem, that the sportsplex only has access from a landfill road owned by the county’s Department of Public Works, and they don’t want any traffic mixing with their big trucks," Mehan said.


IF THE PROPOSAL is approved, when all construction is completed, access to the sports facilities would be on Furnace Road, using the site created by the transfer of the 27 acres of land to the Board of Supervisors for fields, which would eliminate truck and commuter traffic mixing.

Additionally, because the county’s landfill is already 320 feet tall, any new landfill dumping at the former youth detention facility would be shielded from communities in the southern part of the county, Mehan said. The new, smaller landfill would only fill the bowl area where the facility is currently located.

Another benefit of the plan is the prospect of putting a school bus depot at the top of the land currently owned by EnviroSolutions, which would meet another need the county has expressed without disturbing a residential area, he added.

Mehan said he saw a chance to fill a need for the Park Authority, which wants a sportsplex but currently does not have the resources to build one and has a shortage of athletic fields, while also contributing toward a middle school.

"We could bring in six fields almost right away, which is a fast change," he said. "We would take away the recycling facility, which no one in the community wants anyway, we would get rid of truck traffic mixing with commuters, and we would help provide funding for a middle school."

"The greatest hurdles we will face will be within the community, but I’ve taken this to the land-use committee at the South County Federation and other groups, and so far no one has said this is a terrible idea," Mehan said.

Judy Pedersen, a public information office for the Park Authority, said she was unable to discuss the proposal at length because she had not seen it, and it is Park Authority policy not to discuss park-related proposals until the Park Authority Board has reviewed it.

"Our staff knows it exists," she said.
Kirk Holley, manager of the special projects branch of the Park Authority, said they are currently discussing the second phase of a review of the feasibility of building a sportsplex, which is included in the Laurel Hill master plan and has been for years.

"The study by Brailsford and Dunleavy will say that the sportsplex facility cannot generate enough revenue for construction and operation on its own, but there is a need for it," Holley said of a study conducted by the Washington, D.C. based firm.

Even if the facility could sustain itself, the Park Authority currently does not have the money to build it, Holley added.

Early estimates from Brailsford and Dunleavy indicate building the facility could cost between $40 million and $130 million, depending on size and what kinds of amenities the Park Authority wants to include, Pedersen said.

When asked whether the EnviroSolutions proposal would appeal to the Park Authority as a way to provide fields faster than waiting for the larger sportsplex facility, Park Authority Planning Division Director David Bowden said he was not sure.

"I haven’t been able to evaluate it yet because it was presented to the Board of Supervisors, not the Park Authority Board," he said.

School Board member Elizabeth "Liz" Bradsher said the proposal is worthy of further consideration, if only because it would help fund a middle school.

"I think their proposal is easier than the one the developer submitted last week," Bradsher said. "I think it works for the Board of Supervisors, the School Board and the Park Authority. If they could approve it, we could start work on the middle school by 2011."

Supervisor Gerry Hyland (D-Mount Vernon) said this proposal, like the developer-submitted plan, "is not uncomplicated. Each requires the School Board, the Board of Supervisors, the Park Authority and the community affected to be involved in the process."

Hyland said he was "pleased" with the proposal, and hoped it would be given as much time and consideration as the one submitted by a developer earlier this month.

But the costs to the community, mostly in terms of the temporary landfill that would fill in the youth detention facility area.
"That is substantial to the community and needs to be considered," Hyland said.
"This is not something that will be decided within a week. A lot of issues will have to be discussed."



Image Courtesy EnviroSolutions, Inc.
This plan, submitted to the Board of Supervisors on Friday, April 4, includes a land exchange that would provide more parkland for the Fairfax County Park Authority, a larger Sportsplex near the former youth detention center and a series of fields on what is now planned to be a recycling facility.

We have a corrupt system in place.

Young Scholars Wrote:
> ... I DO know information about Young Scholars ...
> Young Scholars does not involve any extra
> personnel during the school year so there are no
> positions to move people teaching young scholars
> to lowering class sizes at other grade levels....

It is always nice to have someone who can provide accurate information. Can you tell us what sort of data is available to show that Young Scholars has a positive effect? The below program description states the ONLY purpose of Young Scholars "to increase the proportion of historically under-represented students in gifted programs." Since the numbers and percentages of FCPS students classified as GT has increased dramatically across the board, what data indicate Young Scholars has been successful in in this limited goal?

Of greater interest, what data show "Young Scholars" achieve a higher "passed advanced" rate on their SOL than do similar students who have not been enrolled in the program?

In the absence of such data, including a control group, can you not see that we members of the general public feel more would be accomplished by reallocating these "15.0 full-time equivalent positions" - one each to the fifteen elementary schools with the lowest SOL pass rates?

Page 24, FCPS FY 2008 Approved Program Budget: "Description: Young Scholars is a K-6 model that is designed to increase the proportion of historically under-represented students in gifted programs. School administrators, teachers, and Gifted and Talented resource teachers work together to find and nurture gifted potential in young learners. Through flexible grouping, summer school, and after-school programs, students are provided an educational setting that raises their personal expectations and prepares them for more challenging and rigorous courses as they advance in grade level.

Explanation of Costs: The total FY 2008 cost of the Young Scholars program is $1.3 million and includes 7.5 positions. The Operating Fund direct costs are $0.7 million to pay for 7.0 teacher positions and benefits. A transfer from the Operating Fund to the Summer School Remediation and Enrichment subfund for $0.6 million includes the cost of a 0.5 nonschool-based position, additional hourly funds, benefits, and $44,279 in administrative costs to reimburse the Adult and Community Education Fund for registration services and administrative support. Total hourly funding of $0.4 million represents approximately 15.0 full-time equivalent positions. Funding for salaries and benefits reflects compensation adjustments."

Whether is it Sudan or Fairfax County in America - Human nature is the same. The predators will always pick the weakest prey. South Lakes knew that they could not mess with Langley areas. Stu Gibson could easily sniker and look down upon these new asian immigrants, who had trouble even speaking english at the public hearing. Throw them in the lakes and they wont be able to escape.
This poster who is taking about a positive environment at South Lakes is smoking something. These new students and brought there against their will, screaming and kicking all the way from the public hearing. The only reason they will show up at South Lakes is that they could not afford to go elsewhere. Make no mistake, this whole RD was to take the resouces from these RDed students to support the small IB dimploma program at South Lakes.



Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> >
> > If it's an issue, drive them.
>
> Thanks Marie. Perhaps they can also eat cake, if
> they can't afford bread?
>
> Unfortunately there are some students whose
> parents have to work and cannot afford to drive
> them to another high school, nor can they afford
> to buy a car for their children to drive
> themselves. Many new immigrant families work very
> hard but still don't make enough money to buy more
> cars for their children. Nor can they afford
> private schools. That's why they bought their
> houses in districts where they liked the schools.
> Now their children have to go to South Lakes.
> They don't want their children at South Lakes but
> they have no choice.
> Those are the children who will be your new
> classmates next year, those who have no
> alternative to South Lakes. But many are still
> scrambling to find alternatives. It's impossible
> to know now how many will be successful, despite
> what Mr. Butler has said. He is not being
> responsible when he claims to know the number of
> students who will show up in September. He cannot
> possibly know that number now.

To Taylor, a SL student.

Taylor, you said that you were a SL student, therefore, I have an academic question for you.

I have heard that for students in the IB diploma program, if they take an exam and miss some questions, after further review, the teacher will give the student a second opportunity to respond to the questions. It is this last score that will account for the grade.

As it was explained, just because a student doesn't know the answer on Tuesday (test day), does not mean that after review, the student could get the correct answer on Thursday (second test day).

Could you please explain if I am hearing correct or incorrect information? If anyone else knows the answer, please feel free to respond. Thanks.

You are already losing your troops as they move out of the RDed areas. These are being replaced by people who dont feel so strongly about HS or they dont have HS kids. I dont think these areas will be able to get out of the RD boundary area but the families will have to migrate out. Your only hope is the lawsuit battle. Even there Gibson has amassed a 3 million dollar legal war chest. You may be right, but justice does not see right or wrong. The best funded and organized group wins. In this case Stu Gibson has all the cards in his hands.

War will not end Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> This war will go on for years and SLHS will lose.

edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Taylor, a SL student.
>
> Taylor, you said that you were a SL student,
> therefore, I have an academic question for you.
>
> I have heard that for students in the IB diploma
> program, if they take an exam and miss some
> questions, after further review, the teacher will
> give the student a second opportunity to respond
> to the questions. It is this last score that will
> account for the grade.
>
> As it was explained, just because a student
> doesn't know the answer on Tuesday (test day),
> does not mean that after review, the student could
> get the correct answer on Thursday (second test
> day).
>
> Could you please explain if I am hearing correct
> or incorrect information? If anyone else knows
> the answer, please feel free to respond. Thanks.

You are hearing incorrectly. They do not get a second shot. The external IB exams are not even graded by the classroom teacher, they are sent out of the building and often out of the country to be scored. The exam scores are then reported back in the summer...no chance or time to have a second shot. In fact some have criticized that even sick students have been known to be forced to take the exam that day, as that is the ONLY day it is even offered..so another factor that shows there is no chance to have a second opportunity since there is no chance to even have a make up day if ill.

I apologize.....I guess I was not clear. I am not talking about the IB Diploma Exam that has external grading, I am talking about regular inclass exams. Students do take inclass exams don't they? Where do the course grades come from except through inclass examing grading.

It is the scoring of those exams that I am asking the question.

I have heard the IB diploma exams that are given at the end are anxiety producing. However, I believe that SL has a good track record for the IB Diploma graduates in terms of pass rate.

edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I apologize.....I guess I was not clear. I am
> not talking about the IB Diploma Exam that has
> external grading, I am talking about regular
> inclass exams. Students do take inclass exams
> don't they? Where do the course grades come from
> except through inclass examing grading.
>
> It is the scoring of those exams that I am asking
> the question.
>
> I have heard the IB diploma exams that are given
> at the end are anxiety producing. However, I
> believe that SL has a good track record for the IB
> Diploma graduates in terms of pass rate.

Exactly what planet are you from? Teachers all over the county let kids retake tests and record the higher score. It's a matter of personal teaching philosophy. It has nothing to do with whether it's a pre-IB, IB or AP course. If you have a problem with that approach, which teachers usually make clear to parents on Back-to-School night, ask for other teachers.

> However, I
> believe that SL has a good track record for the IB
> Diploma graduates in terms of pass rate.

In the last 7 years, SL has produced less than 200 IB diploma graduates. With that kind of dismal numbers, their IB program is a sham; yet they refuse to bring in AP.


edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I apologize.....I guess I was not clear. I am
> not talking about the IB Diploma Exam that has
> external grading, I am talking about regular
> inclass exams. Students do take inclass exams
> don't they? Where do the course grades come from
> except through inclass examing grading.
>
> It is the scoring of those exams that I am asking
> the question.
>
> I have heard the IB diploma exams that are given
> at the end are anxiety producing. However, I
> believe that SL has a good track record for the IB
> Diploma graduates in terms of pass rate.

You must be kidding.....retaking the test until you get a higher score. No way!

No wonder college freshmen go into academic shock when they take their midterm exam ......"the first score that you got is the score you get."

you have to be kidding Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You must be kidding.....retaking the test until
> you get a higher score. No way!
>
> No wonder college freshmen go into academic shock
> when they take their midterm exam ......"the first
> score that you got is the score you get."


You do realize this doesn't occur with IB exams, right?

edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Taylor, a SL student.
>
> Taylor, you said that you were a SL student,
> therefore, I have an academic question for you.
>
> I have heard that for students in the IB diploma
> program, if they take an exam and miss some
> questions, after further review, the teacher will
> give the student a second opportunity to respond
> to the questions. It is this last score that will
> account for the grade.
>
> As it was explained, just because a student
> doesn't know the answer on Tuesday (test day),
> does not mean that after review, the student could
> get the correct answer on Thursday (second test
> day).
>
> Could you please explain if I am hearing correct
> or incorrect information? If anyone else knows
> the answer, please feel free to respond. Thanks.

While I am not Taylor, I do know that students at Hughes and South Lakes can retake their tests until they get the score that they want. However, that has nothing to do with the IB program. IB tests are not graded at South Lakes, they are graded in Europe. Students can not take the IB tests over and over as they are able to do at South Lakes.

Young Scholars,

Where are you? Cat got your tongue? You have questions here about the data for the YS program. You know so much about the program, only YOU can answer these questions.

We anxiously await your response.

Merci



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2008 09:33PM by Neen.

Just what do you all think a test is supposed to tell a teacher and what do you think it is supposed to tell a student?

If you take a test and do poorly and then learn material that is new to you that would make you not do poorly shouldn't you take a new test to measure the material that is new to you?

retaking tests Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just what do you all think a test is supposed to
> tell a teacher and what do you think it is
> supposed to tell a student?
>
> If you take a test and do poorly and then learn
> material that is new to you that would make you
> not do poorly shouldn't you take a new test to
> measure the material that is new to you?

While I am not entirely certain what you are trying to say, no, students should not retake tests until they do well enough to get a decent grade. That is NOT how it works at other schools.


How does this prepare a student for college and the real world? At most regular high schools, a test is a test. Students need to study for it, learn the material, and take the test. They do not get to blow off preparing for an test because they know that they can retake it, again and again. Good luck to those students when they get to college and must study, learn the material, and take the exam ONCE. Good luck to them if get a job and find out that they have to do it right, the first time, without numerous do overs.

Carol Horn has made several presentations about Young Scholars to the GTAC over the years. The only data provided showed that the kids were, in general, scoring pass or pass advanced on their SOL tests. There also was a panel of YS students, YS parents and YS teachers (i.e., GT resource teachers who spent much or most of their time with YS students). The students on that panel loved the YS program, and their parents were happy that the kids were participating.

I don't think any of this anecdotal information necessarily demonstrates that YS improves academic achievement. However, it's pretty clear that the clients are very happy with the program. And to some extent, one could view the GT resource teachers as clients, since the growth of the YS program has generated additional demand for GT resource teachers.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Again, even any anecdotal evidence on the efficacy
> Young Scholars program? I assume at least an easy
> SOL pass rate.

OK listen up kids. If you want anything to happen regarding redistricting or
ANYTHING ELSE related to FCPS, CALL THEM UP AND TELL THEM

Call or email Jack Dale.

Call/email Dean Tisadt.

Call his wife.

Call/email/mail the school board.

Call/email the cluster director

Call/email the principal

The more angry parents call them up, the more they will give in to you! Angry parents equate to lawsuits, which the county can not afford. If lawsuits are filed, you are guaranteed to get whatever you want. In addition, the county will realize you are serious about your complaints and will stop oppressing you. By only bitching to the members of an online message board, you allow the FCPS to railroad you becuase they think they can get away with it. 300 pages of complaints is obviously a substantial basis. Get on the phone now! Get as many people as you can to call up all people in charge of anything.

retaking tests Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just what do you all think a test is supposed to
> tell a teacher and what do you think it is
> supposed to tell a student?
>
> If you take a test and do poorly and then learn
> material that is new to you that would make you
> not do poorly shouldn't you take a new test to
> measure the material that is new to you?

The purpose of an exam is to access the level of information that a student has acquired at some point in time. If the student had not acquired the level of knowledge as measured by exam, then perhaps the student has some learning difficulties, the teacher did not provide the information or guide the student into what information was needed or just perhaps, the test was not designed to measure the information. Believe it or not, teachers (or companies) don't always produce good test.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a teacher reviewing with the student test questions and answers that the student missed. However, there is something inherently wrong if a student can take, and take, and take an exam until the student gets the grade that he/she desires.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK listen up kids. If you want anything to happen
> regarding redistricting or
> ANYTHING ELSE related to FCPS, CALL THEM UP AND
> TELL THEM
>
> Call or email Jack Dale.
>
> Call/email Dean Tisadt.
>
> Call his wife.
>
> Call/email/mail the school board.
>
> Call/email the cluster director
>
> Call/email the principal
>
> The more angry parents call them up, the more they
> will give in to you! Angry parents equate to
> lawsuits, which the county can not afford. If
> lawsuits are filed, you are guaranteed to get
> whatever you want. In addition, the county will
> realize you are serious about your complaints and
> will stop oppressing you. By only bitching to the
> members of an online message board, you allow the
> FCPS to railroad you becuase they think they can
> get away with it. 300 pages of complaints is
> obviously a substantial basis. Get on the phone
> now! Get as many people as you can to call up all
> people in charge of anything.

That's exactly what people did during the redistricting. Every school board member got thousands of emails and phone calls. So did staff. It made NO difference. Staff and school board did everything exactly as they chose.

These folks aren't going to listen to the public. Why would they?