South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who has an interest in working together toward
> a
> > plan that meets EVERYONE's needs and interests?
>
>
> And what would that entail? Are you thinking
> Magnet???? This in my opinion does not meet the
> needs of SL kids.


Which comes back to the very thing about the main argument---"meeting SL kids' needs"..what about potentially redistricted kids' needs?

I don't understand who these "unwilling students" are. Students are unwilling to do a whole range of things, including go to Catholic school (even though their parents make them), wear coats in winter, and study enough to bring a low B to a high B or A. Other students are unwilling to do things their parents have labeled as terrible for them. Yet others do it BECAUSE their parents label it as terrible. Students do not have enough experience in life to know whether this or that will be "good" for them when it comes to major events like move to a new city because Dad or Mom has a new job or move to a new school because they live in a county that redistricts neighborhoods as they grow and change.

Am I to believe that parents canvass their kids before they move to a new house: "Johnny, what school would you like to go to? Ok. Then we'll move to a neighborhood so you can go to your favorite school."

These "unwilling students," I venture to say, are "unwilling" because their parents are making darn sure they will be "unwilling." I guarantee you that 95% of kids go with the flow if their parents do.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FoxMillDad Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Who has an interest in working together
> toward
> > a
> > > plan that meets EVERYONE's needs and
> interests?
> >
> >
> > And what would that entail? Are you thinking
> > Magnet???? This in my opinion does not meet
> the
> > needs of SL kids.
>
>
> Which comes back to the very thing about the main
> argument---"meeting SL kids' needs"..what about
> potentially redistricted kids' needs?


The poster talks about EVERYONES needs. I was making the point that a magnet doesn't meet everyone's needs.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
>
>
> And what would that entail? Are you thinking
> Magnet????


I am advocating going back to basics:

Getting together a broad-based group of sincere, open-minded and hard-working people/organizations together, assessing the needs and proposing a solution in EVERYONE's needs.

Anyone interested in meeting with people of differing viewpoints with the objective of working collaboratively so that we all win?

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who has an interest in working together toward
> a
> > plan that meets EVERYONE's needs and interests?
>
>
> And what would that entail? Are you thinking
> Magnet???? This in my opinion does not meet the
> needs of SL kids.

Maybe he's thinking about the overcrowding at Madison that will occur. It's rather odd how there is so much concern for overcrowding at Westfield and Chantilly while their population decreases by 2012 but I have yet to hear from anyone on the sb discuss why they're willing to let Madison with it's increasing population go well over capacity.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> >
> > And what would that entail? Are you thinking
> > Magnet????
>
>
> I am advocating going back to basics:
>
> Getting together a broad-based group of sincere,
> open-minded and hard-working people/organizations
> together, assessing the needs and proposing a
> solution in EVERYONE's needs.
>
> Anyone interested in meeting with people of
> differing viewpoints with the objective of working
> collaboratively so that we all win?


Please be more specific. This sounds like a tar pit.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
> ... I am interested in working with people and
> organizations throughout the County who are
> interested in solutions developed by the people
> and for the people that take EVERYONE's needs and
> interests into consideration.
>
> There is no reason why we should be fighting with
> one another.
>
> Anyone else interested?

I'm in. We'd need semi-official status so that the School Board at least reads our recommendations, yet does not try to take us over. We'd need to ensure the majority of the votes do NOT belong to FCPS staff, as tends to happen in "official" advisory committees.

So what is our first question? Should we debate whether or not every FCPS high school should have 1700 to 2300 students five years from now, and if so how to get there?

Or something more simple? If I remember correctly, SLV and I agree that Everyday math should be removed from FCPs. Might "Everyday" be a better issue with which to start? If so, are there any Everyday defenders on this thread?

Re "needs of redistricted kids": What kids of all stripes and communities need are good educations with reputable teachers and coursework (which come in a variety of flavors), a safe and supportive environment in which to learn, choices in their curriculum so they can explore and be engaged in a love of learning, a feeling that they are cared for as individuals, and a range of social opportunities to learn and grow in.

All Fairfax County Public Schools offer all these, EXCEPT that some don't have the choices in curriculum others do, and that's one thing being rectified here, along with crowding that makes some kids feel like a number (Westfield parents have complained about this nearly since it opened).

What they don't need is parents making them believe their neighbors are inferior because they go to a "bad" school, or that if they don't go to their PROJECTED school (one they haven't even experienced yet), they will be traumatized.

Observation Wrote:
> I don't understand who these "unwilling students"
> are. ...

Kindly provide a neutral, non-emotional term to describe people and communities who are happy with their current high schools and/or for whatever reason are opposed to this re-districting effort.

Is it possible to move this discussion to a different board so that those who want to work with other of differing viewpoints can do so?

Please advise.

P.S. No, no tar pits would be involved. And absolutely no fighting or name calling either. Just a willingness to inventory ALL needs and interests and work sincerely, openly and vigorously to accomodate them.

FR: OK, but can we agree that "unwilling students" is not neutral? How about "currently satisfied students." (That does not mean they will or won't be satisfied with their new high school -- any of them -- because they haven't been there yet.)

I am concerned about this parent-kid stuff because my child is hearing from (a few) other children that South Lakes stinks, that there are murders there, that he will be surrounded by druggies -- and he is very likely going there, and was at a loss to respond until I gave him some information about the school so he could either ignore or address these kids -- but at least will look forward to going to his new school should that happen. Some of his friends also say their parents do not want them to go to South Lakes, but they can't say why. These kids aren't wedded to one high school or another, so they're getting "biased" by parents. They aren't "unwilling," though they are "currently satisfied" (one expects, though I'm sure there are ups and downs at their current middle schools, too.)

Floris Wrote:

>
> What kind of analysis has done as WHY the school
> is under enrolled, while there is substantial
> population growth in and around SLH?

The population growth around SLHS is pricey high density housing, which draws childless younger adults and retirees. There isn't any plan or space for growth in low - mid level income housing around SLHS.

Please don't
> dodge the question -- if SLH is another Oakton or
> Westfield, there probably won't be an
> under-enrollment. So to fix the problem, one needs
> to find the route cause. and the solution should
> address the root cause, not the symptom on the
> surface. Otherwise, how can we get the confidence
> any solution will help?

From everything I've seen, the biggest cause of problems was an ineffective adminstration that was finally ousted a year and a half ago.

>
> For the FRL, do you think a less than 10% drop on
> the percentage, while the actual numbers increases
> (the RD'd student must have some, albeit low,
> FRL/ESOL students), will really help these kids?
> If not, why bother? If so, is that at the expense
> of the RD'd children?

Yes, I really do think it will have a positive impact on the low income students already at South Lakes, as well as offering more equitable opportunities to all the students at South Lakes.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do we have actual numbers/analysis that other
> options can not solve the SLH issue? How can the
> act of picking the relative powerless communities
> like Floris, better helps SLH?
>
> Someone mentioned some 20 years ago, some Madison
> communities were redistricted to Marshall. Well,
> 20 years later, Marshall is yet to become a
> desired school district -- how many real estate
> ads do you see boasting "desirte Marshall HS
> disstrict" and how many uses Madison as their
> selling point?
>
> To folks want to help SLH, you can pretend not to
> facing the ugly face of RD, you can chant once the
> RD'd folks come, they'll assimilate. But this is
> not the right attitude, this is not the
> responsible thinking in helping a HS to be
> successful in the long run. The whole idea of
> using RD to address SLH issue is like, an
> underperforming kids said the reason he's not
> doing well as the next door Johnny is because he
> doesn't have enough brothers and sisters -- if he
> had enough, and they pool in all their allowance
> money, they can have (who knows what)
> opportunities.
>
> RD is the wrong method to address SLH's
> chanllenges.

Nice analogy. Is redistricting being done to help those kids who are on the bottom? Perhaps the SL parents could provide us with some evidence that those students will receive a better education if more students are added to South Lakes.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> Please be more specific. This sounds like a tar
> pit.


I was very specific in my question, twice. The only reason I raised it because you identified yourself as someone involved in the drafting of Opt 5 and therefore, possibly a member of the SB.

There are six high schools profiled in before/after scenarios in the handout from the Dec 19th meeting. All but one is at or below capacity in both the before and after scenarios, Madison. In a previous post I said would accept the outcome and send my kids to SL (called a SL troll for saying so too) but I never believed for a second that this was fair to ALL Fairfax county residents.

So, here we go for a third time. Isn't it shortsighted and quite possibly politically motivated of the school board to address overcrowding in the western portion of the county where the population of school age children is decreasing while ignoring the eastern portion of the county where that population is increasing?

Observation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am concerned about this parent-kid stuff because
> my child is hearing from (a few) other children
> that South Lakes stinks, that there are murders
> there, that he will be surrounded by druggies --
> and he is very likely going there, and was at a
> loss to respond until I gave him some information
> about the school so he could either ignore or
> address these kids -- but at least will look
> forward to going to his new school should that
> happen. Some of his friends also say their parents
> do not want them to go to South Lakes, but they
> can't say why. These kids aren't wedded to one
> high school or another, so they're getting
> "biased" by parents. They aren't "unwilling,"
> though they are "currently satisfied" (one
> expects, though I'm sure there are ups and downs
> at their current middle schools, too.)

You are to be lauded for a novel approach: Give kids (and parents?) viable information and then let them make their own decision.

Here again is what the Oakton Outlook (student paper) found on a recent visit to SLHS to compare Oakton and SLHS: [www.oaktonoutlook.com]

"When put side by side, differences between Oakton and South Lakes balance out

South Lakes High School is dangerous. At least, that is what a number of vocal parents speaking out against the West County Boundary Study want you to believe. Based on the claims of various parents, an outsider would presume the school is a constant battleground - a dead-end rampant with drugs and gang violence.
To rid ourselves of the status of "outsider," we took one day to visit this war zone. As students of Oakton, a school with rough pockets of its own, we shadowed students at South Lakes to observe and examine. How rough is it really? How does AP compare to IB? Overall, how do Oakton and South Lakes stack up side-by-side? Here is what we found.

Crime and Violence

The first rumor about South Lakes was dispelled immediately upon entering the building. There were, in fact, no metal detectors at the door. In reality, the only abnormality was all the construction equipment surrounding the school. No drug deals, no drive-bys, no violence - just students filing off busses and into the school.

South Lakes has had trouble shedding the negative reputation it acquired in the '80s. "Urban legends" have formed about the school and despite behavioral changes, the off-putting reputation persists.

"South Lakes was bad a long time ago," explained Jamal Cooper, a sophomore at South Lakes. "But it is completely different now. The people are different now."

South Lakes had 26 fights over the 2005-2006 school year. While that may sound like a daunting statistic, the numbers are very subjective.

"Those are [numbers] that we type in, and we are pretty strict," said South Lakes Principal Bruce Butler. "I'm not implying other schools [falsify] it, but we have incredible detail in what we type in. To me, that is proof that this is a safe and secure place because we don't fool around. Why would any of us work here if it were like that?"

Collectively, we personally have witnessed nine fights at Oakton over our combined five years; surely South Lakes students could match that number or far surpass it. However, the students we talked to said they have witnessed anywhere from zero to three fights during their time at South Lakes, not far off from the average Oakton student.

"People say it's a dangerous school," said Matt Ravenstahl, South Lakes fine arts teacher for 14 years. "I have never once seen a fight. I have never once broken up a fight. I have never once felt threatened or endangered."

Diversity

Some look at the demographics of the student body at South Lakes and think it has a negative impact on behavior and academics. But you would be hard-pressed to find a student or teacher at South Lakes who doesn't think the diversity is one the school's best features.

Students and teachers say the diversity makes for a different high school experience, as well as a unique opportunity to be immersed in some of the things they learn about during class.

"I love the fact that we have such a diverse population," Ravenstahl said. "When you have a student who lived in some other part of the world and has been taught completely different views, how great is that? That's the way the world is; it is a smaller place. We all have different views on things; we should probably understand them."

English Teacher Amy Porter went to Oakton as a student and now teaches at South Lakes. She said the diverse demographic changes the social interactions between students.

"I think that even walking through the hallways it has a different vibe, primarily because of the cultural diversity," Porter said. "A lot of the times when people think about diversity, they have negative connotations associated with it. I feel like the cliques aren't as prevalent as they tend to be in much more affluent areas. I think there are a lot of opportunities here for anyone of any socio-economic background to get involved in any activity that she chooses. Overall, I think it has a positive influence on the kids who go here."

Administration and Teachers

"I know that the administration is there if you need help," said junior Scott Miller, said of the Oakton administration. "But I don't see them on a regular basis."

Often students only see and associate with administrators when they are being reprimanded. At South Lakes, not only were the administrators actively roaming the halls between classes but they were openly conversing with students, as well.

"There is a really solid administration here at South Lakes, and I think it's felt throughout the whole school," said Rita Gigliotti, choir and vocal instructor. "I think the teachers feel it and the students feel it. They are always looking for ways to really get involved and know what's going on."

"BRUCCEEEEE."

While we were at lunch, Principal Butler wandered around the cafeteria, greeting most students by name. As he passed our table, everyone in unison shouted his first name. We expected a confrontation or a stern lecture on the importance of respect. To our surprise, not only did neither occur, rather he passed with a pleasant smile and wave.

"Principal Butler knows everyone in the school's name," said Shruti Kuppa, sophomore.

The administration's attentive involvement seems to carry over to the rest of the faculty, who make it a point to have fun, interactive classes. In all the classes we sat through, teachers made an effort to add some fun to what they were doing. In a French class, the students played a vocab review game with white boards and music. In a government class, the outspoken teacher led a discussion about the Bill of Rights, using funny anecdotes that gave meaning to some difficult concepts.

Teachers also tended to branch outside of the core curriculum. We talked to students who used one or even zero textbooks. As students who get backaches from our textbook filled backpacks, this was a refreshing idea.

"The teachers are really involved; I have never had a teacher at South Lakes who doesn't take the time to get to know their students," Kuppa said. "Of course, you have some tough teachers, but they are all very understanding and willing to compromise."

Atmosphere

Not only does the administration work to build relationships with students, but they also work to build relations from student to student. Through the use of a mentoring program, a system that emulates the "buddy" program that most of us are familiar with from elementary school, the divide between upperclassmen and lowerclassmen is eroded.

"Upperclassmen mentors go to the freshmen classes and we talk with freshmen," said Noor Hachwi, junior. "We are assigned freshmen and help out if they have any questions."

The mentors work with groups of five to six students at an allotted time, once a month, during class. They get to know the lowerclassmen in hopes of encouraging a healthy relationship that would promote active involvement in the school.

"My mentor was amazing," Kuppa said. "She was an upperclassman that I could go to. It made the transition to high school easier. I wasn't afraid of all of the 'big kids.'"

As we walked through the halls, big groups of mentors sat in circles with their underclassmen "mentees" sprawled out around the floor. After playing two group- oriented games, the boys and girls split up and discussed any problems or topics someone was willing to suggest. When the circle came around to us, we asked the probing question.

"Do any of you feel endangered or not safe at any point in time?"

Not a single head nodded yes. In fact, most looked in confusion at each other, wondering why such a question would even be asked.

"Are any of you unhappy at South Lakes or wish you went to another school?"

Once again, not a single head nodded yes, and more confused glances were shot across the circle. We can sense insincerity; their answers were genuine. These students were not screened; they were not prepped. Until we walked into the classroom, they did not know we existed or what our purpose was.

College Acceptance

Go to any high school in the country and you're probably going to find that the main stress, the driving force for students, is college acceptance. We all know that it is true at Oakton, and South Lakes is no exception.

Students' schedules are filled with numerous extra-curricular activities and their days are spent working just as rigorously as students at Oakton. Students have internships, work hard for an IB diploma, devote hours to community service and homework for challenging classes. In fact, the Leadership class reviews roughly 500 letters every week. These letters are all from applicants who apply to Eastern Motors for their car give away. South Lakes is one of six high schools to perform this task.

"I think we have some really amazing students here who go on to do some great things and who have gone to some very impressive colleges," said Marie Assir, South Lakes career center specialist.

In the past four years, South Lakes has had students accepted into Columbia, Georgetown, UVA, Princeton, Yale and many more prestigious universities.

Sports and Arts

Academically, South Lakes is pretty comparable with Oakton. However, sports are a different story. Although they have had some exceptional athletes, such as NBA player Grant Hill and Olympian runner Alan Webb, overall, their athletics do not statistically stack up to that of Oakton.

Despite the mediocrity of their sports program, Seahawk athletes are confident that with the incoming students from the border study, their chances at better records in sports improve.

"The teams try hard," Cooper said, "but when you are so under-populated, you just don't stand a chance against schools with twice as many people."

Small teams are tough to have success with, but the musical and departments have not suffered from the lack of students.

"We have 113 kids in chorus this year," Gigliotti said. "More kids are always great, but I don't think the quality of education changes."

"Oakton is a very sports driven school," said Alex Perry, Oakton junior. "Athletics are extremely competitive resulting in talented programs and an even greater focus on winning."

Few Oakton students would deny the intense emphasis on the sports program, which occasionally leaves some feeling like the arts are on the back-burner. It was clear that South Lakes has balanced their priorities when it comes to extra curriculars. Stemming, again, from administrative interest and involvement.

"I get things all the time from Mr. Butler, like, 'can the choir sing for this?' or 'I'm going to bring so and so by to see the choir today.' He really makes an effort," Gigliotti explained. "He's really involved and that transcends to the other administrators. I have numerous people, administrators and teachers, ask me, 'When is you're concert? We really want to come.' It's very supportive."

Renovation

South Lakes is currently undergoing a $48.2 million renovation plan. Although construction is still underway, the school already has gotten a lot of new technological equipment and school essentials that gives it a more modern feel than Oakton.

Plasma screens can be found along the wall of the main hallway and the career center. New desks have a contemporary look to them. Most classrooms are equipped with a digital projector, mounted solidly on the ceiling rather than obstructively on a cart.

"We have brand new desks, computers, books," listed Joey Giordano, freshmen. "There's also a brand new computer lab, brand new cafeterias, new projectors; it's cool."

The recent boundary study has sparked intense debate within our community as a whole. The prospect of change is often a frightening one. However, regardless of the study results, one fact remains the same.

"Whoever walks through that door, we are going to welcome them," Butler said to an emotional Leadership classroom. "Wherever they might come from, they might be from Mars; we are going to welcome them."

OHS VS. SLHS

Number of Students
2,350 1,443

Time Between Classes
5 minutes 10 minutes

Type of Advanced Classes

AP IB

Student to Computer Ratio

2.3 : 1 1.6 : 1


Serious Incidents in 2005-06

12 15

Firearm Violations in 2005-06

0 0

% of Free/Reduced Priced Meals

8.51 33.12

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please tell us.
>
> Tell us why, based on this whole effort, South
> Lakes appears to be having far more problems than
> Stuart, which is also IB and which has about the
> same number of students and which is considerably
> more "diverse."

I don't know, but I have learned through this process that the administration of SLHS is working to learn from Stuart's success.

>
> Tell us "why Fox Mill?" We keep hearing how proud
> South Lakes is of its diversity, so why would you
> want to dilute that diversity?

Fox Mill is the closest elementary school to South Lakes High School, and South Lakes needs more students feeding into it.

>
> Tell us "why more students?" Other schools do just
> fine with even fewer students.

There is a size point where there aren't enough students to offer classes, right now, South Lakes is at that point and has the capacity to hold more students. Every school situation is not the same, and adding enrollment to South Lakes is focus of this study at this point. I trust that other schools with low enrollment and excess capacity will be addressed in their turn.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillDad Wrote:
> > ... I am interested in working with people and
> > organizations throughout the County who are
> > interested in solutions developed by the people
> > and for the people that take EVERYONE's needs
> and
> > interests into consideration.
> >
> > There is no reason why we should be fighting
> with
> > one another.
> >
> > Anyone else interested?
>
> I'm in. We'd need semi-official status so that the
> School Board at least reads our recommendations,
> yet does not try to take us over. We'd need to
> ensure the majority of the votes do NOT belong to
> FCPS staff, as tends to happen in "official"
> advisory committees.
>
> So what is our first question? Should we debate
> whether or not every FCPS high school should have
> 1700 to 2300 students five years from now, and if
> so how to get there?
>
> Or something more simple? If I remember correctly,
> SLV and I agree that Everyday math should be
> removed from FCPs. Might "Everyday" be a better
> issue with which to start? If so, are there any
> Everyday defenders on this thread?

I'm in as well. I think dealing with "everyday" math is a good starting point.

Another is to stop the mud slinging with regards to this study. How would the process be improved for future studies?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do we have actual numbers/analysis that other
> > options can not solve the SLH issue? How can
> the
> > act of picking the relative powerless
> communities
> > like Floris, better helps SLH?
> >
> > Someone mentioned some 20 years ago, some
> Madison
> > communities were redistricted to Marshall.
> Well,
> > 20 years later, Marshall is yet to become a
> > desired school district -- how many real estate
> > ads do you see boasting "desirte Marshall HS
> > disstrict" and how many uses Madison as their
> > selling point?
> >
> > To folks want to help SLH, you can pretend not
> to
> > facing the ugly face of RD, you can chant once
> the
> > RD'd folks come, they'll assimilate. But this
> is
> > not the right attitude, this is not the
> > responsible thinking in helping a HS to be
> > successful in the long run. The whole idea of
> > using RD to address SLH issue is like, an
> > underperforming kids said the reason he's not
> > doing well as the next door Johnny is because
> he
> > doesn't have enough brothers and sisters -- if
> he
> > had enough, and they pool in all their
> allowance
> > money, they can have (who knows what)
> > opportunities.
> >
> > RD is the wrong method to address SLH's
> > chanllenges.
>
> Nice analogy. Is redistricting being done to help
> those kids who are on the bottom? Perhaps the SL
> parents could provide us with some evidence that
> those students will receive a better education if
> more students are added to South Lakes.



Neen, having shed the Groucho nose, trench coat and fedora after attending the SLHS PTSA meeting, makes a daytime appearance............

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please explain why McNair, which consists of
> mostly condos, town homes, and subsidized living
> units, doesn't have under-enrollment.

Because that type of housing attracts families, and expensive high rise dwellings, in the outer suburbs, don't.

Neen's Conscience Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----->
> > You need to ask the South Lakes PTSA officers.
> I
> > am sure there are some here who could verify
> that
> > Bruce Butler has told them that next year South
> > Lakes will offer Human Geography.
>
> Neen, don't be coy. Why don't you tell the folks
> here how you really know the above information.
> Why don't tell them how you infiltrated a private
> yahoo group so that you could spy on the South
> Lakes Boundary Group's strategies. Why don't you
> tell them that you are demonstrating the true
> breadth and depth of your character with such
> actions. Why don't you explain to them how doing
> so demonstrates what an upstanding and trustworthy
> and honest citizen you are. Why don't you tell
> them that you would endorse Hillary Clinton's
> campaign doing so to gain information on Mitt
> Romney or John McCain or Mike Huckabee or Rudy
> Guiliani.
>
> I'll give you this. You are truly Nixonian.
> We'll call this SouthLakesgate.

Hahahaha..........Southlakesgate! I love it! Too funny. I know how much the left loves a good conspiracy theory, so I'm sure you're having fun with it, but you are giving me WAY more credit than I deserve. You are devoting too much time and energy to little ol' me when there are more pressing problems at hand for your school and your community. That's not to say that I'm not a bit flattered by the all the time and attention you and the rest of the PTSA are devoting to me. (blushing)

Seriously, I am just not that important.

Perhaps you could answer my previous questions about why there is this boundary change proposal and which children will benefit. High performing students? Because they will have more higher level IB classes? Nothing wrong with that goal. Average students (assuming any of our schools have such a thing) because they will get more electives like Journalism 4, drama 4, and more music lessons? Or kids on the bottom because more students will improve the education that they receive at South Lakes? If the latter students are the reason, would you explain how their education will be improved? Will it also improve the education that they receive at Dogwood, McNair and Terraset.

I look for forward to a well reasoned debate on the subject and I promise there will be no 18 minute gaps. ;)

What attracts families is great schools. Period.

>>>>Neen, having shed the Groucho nose, trench coat and fedora after attending the SLHS PTSA meeting, makes a daytime appearance......<<<

Oh yes, I am quite the spy. Of course you know Bob Hanson lived in Vienna. Everything I know, I learned from him.

PSSSTTT......my co conspirators will meet tonight at Foxstone Park. Keep it on the DL...............

Thank you HooTribe and ForumReader (and the Silent Majority),

HooTribe wrote, "Another is to stop the mud slinging with regards to this study. How would the process be improved for future studies?"

I agree, no more mudslinging.

However, to be clear, I am opposed to this study. It did not properly survey or address everyone's needs and interests. I am convinced that residents throughout our area can do a better job by working closely together.

Anyone interested?

SLHS Padre: Yes -- I read that article in the Oakton paper, and I visited SLHS a few times over the last four months. Very impressive school (in spite of construction). Took my son and he actually loved the construction and would like NOT to cover it up. I went twice during the school day and was very impressed by the school spirit there. Kids of all colors walking together in the halls, lots of lively conversation (much of it academically topical, which surprised me, have to say). I'm familiar with Westfield and Oakton (not Chantilly) and have to say that school spirit there is bountiful, too.

The education everyone gets seems to be pretty top-notch at all schools. I will be among the vocal parents seeking to get some AP courses or other electives into South Lakes so the kids can explore more areas of interest if we end up there -- the only current drawback that I see, except if they're locked out due to under-enrolled core classes (which I've heard happens). Would more kids solve that, really? I'm just hoping that other incoming kids don't walk in the doors with their arms crossed and frowns on their faces.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>Neen, having shed the Groucho nose, trench
> coat and fedora after attending the SLHS PTSA
> meeting, makes a daytime appearance......<<<
>
> Oh yes, I am quite the spy. Of course you know
> Bob Hanson lived in Vienna. Everything I know, I
> learned from him.
>
> PSSSTTT......my co conspirators will meet tonight
> at Foxstone Park. Keep it on the
> DL...............



Thanks for the tip. I'll be the guy with the dog and the Poirot moustache.

PS: Does DL mean "Down low"? I lost my manual.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it possible to move this discussion to a
> different board so that those who want to work
> with other of differing viewpoints can do so?
>
> Please advise.
>
> P.S. No, no tar pits would be involved. And
> absolutely no fighting or name calling either.
> Just a willingness to inventory ALL needs and
> interests and work sincerely, openly and
> vigorously to accomodate them.


It is possible to move this discussion to a new thread. I must tell you, this is really difficult because again as I have mentioned before, we have CHOICES. If this current scenrio gets approved by the SB, then I hope there will be flexibility in allowing parents send their kids of their school CHOICE the legitimate and legal way with very strong reasons why they want their kid(s) to go to the school of their choice (programs particularly) to fit the NEEDS of their kids' education. As with any redistricting, these redistricted kids deserve extra support because it would not be their CHOICE to go to a school forced against their will. So please go right and and start a new thread on how solutions can be brought up to satisfy everyone needs.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hahahaha..........Southlakesgate! I love it! Too
> funny. I know how much the left loves a good
> conspiracy theory,

That's irony. I think you've posted numerous times that this study is a conspiracy.

Really, Neen, and we're tired to answering your same questions over and over again, ad nauseum. Go find some other group to heckle.

Observation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre: Yes -- I read that article in the
> Oakton paper, and I visited SLHS a few times over
> the last four months. Very impressive school (in
> spite of construction). Took my son and he
> actually loved the construction and would like NOT
> to cover it up. I went twice during the school day
> and was very impressed by the school spirit there.
> Kids of all colors walking together in the halls,
> lots of lively conversation (much of it
> academically topical, which surprised me, have to
> say). I'm familiar with Westfield and Oakton (not
> Chantilly) and have to say that school spirit
> there is bountiful, too.
>
> The education everyone gets seems to be pretty
> top-notch at all schools. I will be among the
> vocal parents seeking to get some AP courses or
> other electives into South Lakes so the kids can
> explore more areas of interest if we end up there
> -- the only current drawback that I see, except if
> they're locked out due to under-enrolled core
> classes (which I've heard happens). Would more
> kids solve that, really? I'm just hoping that
> other incoming kids don't walk in the doors with
> their arms crossed and frowns on their faces.



That's great. I and others also support AP courses to supplement the IB program (I have been agnostic in IB v AP, but I do see a rigorous program now in place albeit with room for improvement and expansion, with parental input).

I am confident that any kids with frowns and crossed arms will quickly get in the swing, talk about all the normal stuff....and life will be good and normal for them and for their parents.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you HooTribe and ForumReader (and the Silent
> Majority),
>
> HooTribe wrote, "Another is to stop the mud
> slinging with regards to this study. How would the
> process be improved for future studies?"
>
> I agree, no more mudslinging.
>
> However, to be clear, I am opposed to this study.
> It did not properly survey or address everyone's
> needs and interests. I am convinced that
> residents throughout our area can do a better job
> by working closely together.
>
> Anyone interested?


There might have been a chance for us to work together in this study, but no one invited SL people. They immediately ganged up against us, with StopRD, etc. Little chance we would have had a place at the table if it was up to individuals in this county.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is it possible to move this discussion to a
> > different board so that those who want to work
> > with other of differing viewpoints can do so?
> >
> > Please advise.
> >
> > P.S. No, no tar pits would be involved. And
> > absolutely no fighting or name calling either.
> > Just a willingness to inventory ALL needs and
> > interests and work sincerely, openly and
> > vigorously to accomodate them.
>
>
> It is possible to move this discussion to a new
> thread. I must tell you, this is really difficult
> because again as I have mentioned before, we have
> CHOICES. If this current scenrio gets approved by
> the SB, then I hope there will be flexibility in
> allowing parents send their kids of their school
> CHOICE the legitimate and legal way with very
> strong reasons why they want their kid(s) to go to
> the school of their choice (programs particularly)
> to fit the NEEDS of their kids' education. As
> with any redistricting, these redistricted kids
> deserve extra support because it would not be
> their CHOICE to go to a school forced against
> their will. So please go right and and start a
> new thread on how solutions can be brought up to
> satisfy everyone needs.

Baffled: I'd appreciate a response as to why you think your kids would not "choose" to go to South Lakes or would go there "against their will," unless their parents made this sound perfectly awful in advance. These kids haven't even gone to high school yet. They're 13 and 14 years old. This is why they are considered "minors." It is up to the parents to get informed and set the tone for their kids. I know many pupil-placed kids, and believe me, this is not a panacea. They don't go to school with their neighbors, which can cause a rift, among other things. I believe that's why this last scenario made sure to keep neighborhoods together (even Navy, which is still with other Navy kids.)

As for support, they will get a lot of that "extra" support from YOU, one would hope. And having met several South Lakes families and administrators now, I am sure that community will do everything possible to give new kids "extra" support -- which apparently they do to great extent to all incoming Freshmen (I learned about the mentor program, for example).

>> Plasma screens can be found along the wall of the main hallway and the career center.

No wonder there is at least a $100 million shortfall in the school budget each of the last 5 years with no increase in student enrollment! And we beg to be taxed more!!!!

>> Plasma screens can be found along the wall of the main hallway and the career center.

Hope they are bolted to the wall

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I did a queick search at homedatabase.com to
> get an idea how expensive RTC's condos are. For
> sale today, in entire 20171 for anything below
> 300k, there are 15 units on market, for Reston
> (20190) 45 units.

Did you look at addresses to confirm that they were in RTC? I'd expect most are in the Lake Anne and Tall Oaks area.

> So there are enough affordable housing in RTC
> area.

You have not shown that.

>
> For 'aging out' communities, can someone tell me
> why Fox Mill is not 'aging out' except the houses
> themselves there -- There are things cannot be
> solved by a forced RD.

Fox Mill Estates housing is a lot denser than the single family housing in Reston, I don't see a lot of extensive remodeling or housing additions in FME. Most people I know who are aging in place have upgraded their houses over the years. In FME I don't see the kind of lots that would make you want to stay in place rather than move up and out.

Forum Reader:
-------------------------------------------------------
If you are comfortable with your positions, please feel free to defend. You are welcome to your opinions and I am welcome to point out some of the hypocrisy in yours. Herndon is also a school in the study that was initially slated to receive more students because they are somewhat under capacity. Three of the four initial Options did move additional students to Herndon to help with their under-capacity. I did not hear you complain then that Herndon was receiving students from other schools even though they have some problems of their own when it comes to educating their students - see their SOL and SAT scores - and even though their FRM is below the County average. You did not say then that they should be fixing their own problems. What is the difference between Herndon and South Lakes? Herndon is an AP school. I surmise that your silence speaks volumes.
>
> Because the other schools are resolving their own
> issues without trying to force in additional
> unwilling students.

Again, South Lakes did not initiate the study, the School Board did. I challenge you to prove otherwise.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2008 11:00PM by SLVerity.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There might have been a chance for us to work
> together in this study, but no one invited SL
> people. They immediately ganged up against us,
> with StopRD, etc. Little chance we would have had
> a place at the table if it was up to individuals
> in this county.


There is always a chance for people to work together if they are willing. I am and it sounds like you and others are as well. Thank you also to Baffled for suggesting opening up a new thread. I will check into it and post here. Then all on this list who are interested in working together with open minds for a solution that meets everyone's needs are welcome to join.

Restonian Wrote:

> The population growth around SLHS is pricey high density housing, which draws
> childless younger adults and retirees. There isn't any plan or space for
> growth in low - mid level income housing around SLHS.

> Fox Mill Estates housing is a lot denser than the single family housing in
> Reston, I don't see a lot of extensive remodeling or housing additions in
> FME. Most people I know who are aging in place have upgraded their houses
> over the years. In FME I don't see the kind of lots that would make you want
> to stay in place rather than move up and out.

Sounds like you have a long-term demographic problem over there. I wouldn't expect this boundary shuffle to provide lasting relief.

> Fox Mill is the closest elementary school to South
> Lakes High School, and South Lakes needs more
> students feeding into it.
>

And everyone else exists to serve the needs of South Lakes?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Plasma screens can be found along the wall of
> the main hallway and the career center.
>
> Hope they are bolted to the wall

Thanks Word for daily reminding us what a jerk you can be.

Another Fox Mill Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FoxMillDad Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Please be more specific. This sounds like a
> tar
> > pit.
>
>
> I was very specific in my question, twice. The
> only reason I raised it because you identified
> yourself as someone involved in the drafting of
> Opt 5 and therefore, possibly a member of the SB.
>
> There are six high schools profiled in
> before/after scenarios in the handout from the Dec
> 19th meeting. All but one is at or below capacity
> in both the before and after scenarios, Madison.
> In a previous post I said would accept the outcome
> and send my kids to SL (called a SL troll for
> saying so too) but I never believed for a second
> that this was fair to ALL Fairfax county
> residents.
>
> So, here we go for a third time. Isn't it
> shortsighted and quite possibly politically
> motivated of the school board to address
> overcrowding in the western portion of the county
> where the population of school age children is
> decreasing while ignoring the eastern portion of
> the county where that population is increasing?

I can only assume that the SB reference was intended to be an insult, implying that I am disingenuously posting as a SL parent.

I'm not sure what "fair" means. Does it mean that everyone should get everything they want? I don't think this is possible.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FoxMillDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > And what would that entail? Are you thinking
> > > Magnet????
> >
> >
> > I am advocating going back to basics:
> >
> > Getting together a broad-based group of
> sincere,
> > open-minded and hard-working
> people/organizations
> > together, assessing the needs and proposing a
> > solution in EVERYONE's needs.
> >
> > Anyone interested in meeting with people of
> > differing viewpoints with the objective of
> working
> > collaboratively so that we all win?
>
>
> Please be more specific. This sounds like a tar
> pit.



Kinda like the kid catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

If you think it will take another year or two, sure I am in!

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Fox Mill Dad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
> I can only assume that the SB reference was
> intended to be an insult, implying that I am
> disingenuously posting as a SL parent.
>
> I'm not sure what "fair" means. Does it mean that
> everyone should get everything they want? I don't
> think this is possible.


It wasn't intended as an insult, I haven't followed this thread from the begining and wasn't aware that it you couldn't be on the SB or SB staff and also a SL Parent. I said "possibly" simply because if your not on the SB, you have certainly influenced it's actions as you helped draft the option they'll implement.

My point is simply one of geography. If you drew a 3 to 5 mile radius circle around SLHS you would cover much more of the current Madison district (that big white zone on the boundary study maps south and east of the Sunrise Valley ES district) than you would of Fox Mill or Floris. Any "Madison wasn't included in the study" answer is unnacceptable since they included a politically expedient portion of it and included demographic data showing that as a whole it will be most over capacity in the future.

As I said before, I don't have a problem sending my kids to SL but is it fair to a Floris parent to say "go to Oakton, no make that Westfield, sorry make that South Lakes" while not including the above mentioned Madison districts or offering an explaination why they weren't included? I mean Langley is one thing but it's not as glaringly obvious as those Madison districts.

If this has already been discussed ad nauseum as so many other topics have then please direct me to the appropriate page and I'll shut up and go read it.

Calling all parents and other adult community members:

If you are frustrated by the fighting and incivility the school boundary study has fostered, please look at the "A New Start" thread.

This thread was established to facilitate a candid, open-minded discussion of the needs of all West County schools and their communities.

The goal is to build (and rebuild) bridges between neighborhoods and gain a thorough understanding of everyone's needs and interests.

The intended result is a plan which truly reflects the needs and interests of all.

If this interests you, please visit the "A New Start" thread and read the first message before posting.

I look forward to "seeing" you there.

This is a totally off-topic, random question, but I'm willing to bet some of the folks reading this thread know the answer... What has been the Cogat cut-off score for the fcps GT program in past years?

Thanks.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Observation Wrote:
> > I don't understand who these "unwilling
> students"
> > are. ...
>
> Kindly provide a neutral, non-emotional term to
> describe people and communities who are happy with
> their current high schools and/or for whatever
> reason are opposed to this re-districting effort.


Fair Oaks Estates is quite happy with Chantilly High School. We love the commute, the education, the school activities, the teachers and the administrators. We Vehemently oppose redristricting as we will be forced to succumb to a longer commute, more dangerous travel roads, less time with families, less sleep and more aggravation. Chantilly is NOT overcrowded and the whole idea to send us to Oakton is stupid.

we love chantilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Observation Wrote:
> > > I don't understand who these "unwilling
> > students"
> > > are. ...
> >
> > Kindly provide a neutral, non-emotional term to
> > describe people and communities who are happy
> with
> > their current high schools and/or for whatever
> > reason are opposed to this re-districting
> effort.
>
>
> Fair Oaks Estates is quite happy with Chantilly
> High School. We love the commute, the education,
> the school activities, the teachers and the
> administrators. We Vehemently oppose
> redristricting as we will be forced to succumb to
> a longer commute, more dangerous travel roads,
> less time with families, less sleep and more
> aggravation. Chantilly is NOT overcrowded and the
> whole idea to send us to Oakton is stupid.


What about the option of moving the academy to Oakton instead of Navy? Everyone here seems to love the magnet idea, so I'm sure Oakton won't mind.


On the COGAT---130.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2008 09:11PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, it would have
> impacted many more people's boundaries than the
> current scenario.

True that Scenario 4 would have, but let's not forget that the SB somehow forgot to include the western part of Langley in the study area. If Langley were in the study area, moving western Langley to Herndon and Armstrong/Aldrin or just Aldrin would have been very reasonable alternatives to The Chosen One. Would have supported the desire for a Reston High School, would not have required building the Langley addition, would not have altered HHS's socioeconomics, would have cut busing costs, etc.

Instead, because of the poor study parameters, "NorthEast Floris," where ever that is, gets to be redistricted a 7th time in the last 10 years with the 8th coming next year with Coppermine.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In fact, it would have
> > impacted many more people's boundaries than the
> > current scenario.
>
> True that Scenario 4 would have, but let's not
> forget that the SB somehow forgot to include the
> western part of Langley in the study area. If
> Langley were in the study area, moving western
> Langley to Herndon and Armstrong/Aldrin or just
> Aldrin would have been very reasonable
> alternatives to The Chosen One. Would have
> supported the desire for a Reston High School,
> would not have required building the Langley
> addition, would not have altered HHS's
> socioeconomics, would have cut busing costs, etc.
>
> Instead, because of the poor study parameters,
> "NorthEast Floris," where ever that is, gets to be
> redistricted a 7th time in the last 10 years with
> the 8th coming next year with Coppermine.


Agreed. Langley would have made that possible. We are just trying to find the best option within the constraints of the study.

The attachment says it all. When SLHS arrives at full strength, it will be hands-down the best high school in Fairfax County, if not the entire U.S.
Attachments:

Didn't get the attachment. Can you repost, or post a link if available?