I'm talking about shutting Hughes down completely

Neen,
You mentioned the types of jobs that require a college degree and I believe that you are incorrect. I know plenty of firefighters and store managers who never went to college. Also restaurant managers, as hard as they work and as talented as they are, do not require a college degree.

One other thing I must point out to you. I work in a job where not one of the managers EVER takes work home nor are they expected to. Even my husband who worked in public health never had to take work home to complete. Teachers always do. At least the ones I know do. Once they leave school, there is always grading to do, or classes to attend. That is done on their own time.

I just wanted to remind you of these points.

Trickie

I think you have a typo...you mean move Fox Mill from Carson to Hughes.

I too think this would be a disaster. I can only hope the lawsuit wins.

This is incredible....incredibly sad that is..

so sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems certain that the SB is going to move Fox
> Mill (and maybe part of Floris) from Fox Mill to
> Langston Hughes. They want to improve the general
> scores of the school, so as to balance Carson and
> Hughes. The SLPTA and others are also in support
> of this move. All the reasons for and against the
> Oakton-to-SL move will apply. Now is the time to
> argue (not that it will have an impact). If the
> lawsuit wins, it is unlikely to happen. So, if
> you like Carson, donate to CAPS. If you are in SL
> domain, hope the suit loses.

The NEA had done a fabulous job snowing us all into thinking that teachers are woefully underpaid.

There are a number of studies done based on BOL stats on salaries that all demonstrate that teachers do quite well when you compare them to others on an hourly basis (given they work only 194 days per year).

The painter and auto mechanic example is absurd. Sure there are exceptions, but, all in all, teachers, based on their education, do quite well relative to other professionals.

There are not a lot of Fortune 500 companies hiring English Lit majors. Many teachers are not really qualified to do any other type of white collar work.

As far as taking work home, most professionals take work home with them as well and they work 12 months out of the year.

The outrage is the bloated pensions that are provided to teachers. They need to get with the real world and convert to defined contribution plans-401ks etc, and save for their retirement like the rest of us. Look at what the autoworkers have done to Ford and GM with their wage and benefit demands-these companies will be bankrupt within 18 months.

We cannot continue to give teachers 3-5% pay raises every year just for showing up to work. Wages consume 85% of our school budget. Get out your calculators folks. Flat budgets, 85% of your budget increases 5% every year, what do you think happens to the 15% of the budget? That means less money for textbooks, transportation, school renovation, construction, etc.

Something has to give. These teachers need to get real.

me too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you have a typo...you mean move Fox Mill
> from Carson to Hughes.
>
> I too think this would be a disaster. I can only
> hope the lawsuit wins.
>
> This is incredible....incredibly sad that is..
>
> so sad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It seems certain that the SB is going to move
> Fox
> > Mill (and maybe part of Floris) from Fox Mill
> to
> > Langston Hughes. They want to improve the
> general
> > scores of the school, so as to balance Carson
> and
> > Hughes. The SLPTA and others are also in
> support
> > of this move. All the reasons for and against
> the
> > Oakton-to-SL move will apply. Now is the time
> to
> > argue (not that it will have an impact). If
> the
> > lawsuit wins, it is unlikely to happen. So, if
> > you like Carson, donate to CAPS. If you are in
> SL
> > domain, hope the suit loses.


If this were to happen with moving Fox Mill and part of Floris to Hughes, wouldn't Hughes be bursting at the seams?

I think the idea is to move folks out of Hughes also...what other middle schools feed SL?

> If this were to happen with moving Fox Mill and
> part of Floris to Hughes, wouldn't Hughes be
> bursting at the seams?

For the record $45,000 is close to unemployment in Fairfax County. If you think car mechanic and painters make $45,000 you better check your numbers again. Many make $60-90,000 a year. Heating A/C and plumbers can make over $100,000 a year if they hustle, but must only work half days and are at the bar by 2pm.

Just imagine what Fox Mill will look like in 10 years if this all goes through... the Giant shopping center there will be abandoned like the one at Tall Oaks, the small number of businesses there will leave and the once terrific middle class family neighborhood will be a pit of overgrown weeds, paint-peeled houses and crime-ridden streets. Think I'm exaggerating? Are there certain places in Reston you wouldn't walk in at night? This will be one of them too.

What the fuck are you talking about? Fox Mill is already full of white trash. Just last week Fairfax Police raided two houses there.

I was initially in favor of the RD, but became disenchanted when I learned about IB (and was further soured by the unsavory behavior of the SLPTA and SB). I hope the suit wins. But if it does not win, there is little reason to keep Fox Mill in Carson. If they go to Hughes, they get the IB middle years program, and the pyramid is realigned. I just hope the suit wins, and the entire effort is put on hold. I say put on hold, because there is no stopping the SB. The best we can hope for is that would do it more fairly next time, by taking into account Langley.

Also, I cannot help to think that if they had Coppermine and South Lakes to deal with in unison, the Floris folks would be left alone...maybe the Chantilly folks too. I do think that if there is another bite at the apple, the Fox Mill and Madison island folks are still targeted for Hughes/SL...just a question of when. It would be too good (and too fair) to be true for the SB to take Reston north into Hughes/SL.

Others have their own opinions. But if you think the current situation stinks, support CAPS.

Disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just imagine what Fox Mill will look like in 10
> years if this all goes through... the Giant
> shopping center there will be abandoned like the
> one at Tall Oaks, the small number of businesses
> there will leave and the once terrific middle
> class family neighborhood will be a pit of
> overgrown weeds, paint-peeled houses and
> crime-ridden streets. Think I'm exaggerating?
> Are there certain places in Reston you wouldn't
> walk in at night? This will be one of them too.

Personally, I'm waiting for the McMansions of Madison Island to be vacated, so I can squat in one of them amidst the tumbleweed.

Seems the rumor mill is out about middle school solely to boost the coffers of the organization known as CAPS. How many more lies can that group spread in order to get people to donate money to their cause? Or can these people give you truthful information about the purported closing of SL or the supposed moving of students from one middle school to another?

Social services - I agree with the notion that volunteering to help children is a great thing. But it ought to be done in an encouraging way. I am not sure you are on the mark with your comments.

I also concur that given the moral laxity that has come to prevail in our culture - particularly acute in some communities as manifested by careless out of wedlock births along with a general disregard for the welfare of children - that some kids come to school in very sad shape.

But - and I say this in a positive way - because in Fairfax County I think most educators are both good and caring - it is a fallacy to think that the school should be the institution to address these problems, notwithstanding the flaws in social services systems (I find it interesting that you glossed over the biggest flaw - the lack of responsibility and virtue among parents or guardians). I can understand free lunch programs - kids won't study if they are hungry. And I can understand some degree of social work to work with the very worst of kids and put them in intensive programs away from the typical school experience. But if the schools place an undue focus on social work - a field that has long had at best only nominal success in terms of making their charges independent from all forms of addicting entitlements - they the school will end up hiring people that are strong on social work issues and low on academics - which is of course why middle class people are upset at the schools. It sounds cold and disheartening - but not really - schools should focus on education - and mostly only education - period. They ought to do well in what they are charged to do - and in turn - they will instill confidence in their communities and prosper. Put otherwise, if schools view themselves as the social safety net and babysitter of last resort - that is of course what they over time will become.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Social services - I agree with the notion that
> volunteering to help children is a great thing.
> But it ought to be done in an encouraging way. I
> am not sure you are on the mark with your
> comments.
>
> I also concur that given the moral laxity that has
> come to prevail in our culture - particularly
> acute in some communities as manifested by
> careless out of wedlock births along with a
> general disregard for the welfare of children -
> that some kids come to school in very sad shape.
>
> But - and I say this in a positive way - because
> in Fairfax County I think most educators are both
> good and caring - it is a fallacy to think that
> the school should be the institution to address
> these problems, notwithstanding the flaws in
> social services systems (I find it interesting
> that you glossed over the biggest flaw - the lack
> of responsibility and virtue among parents or
> guardians). I can understand free lunch programs
> - kids won't study if they are hungry. And I can
> understand some degree of social work to work with
> the very worst of kids and put them in intensive
> programs away from the typical school experience.
> But if the schools place an undue focus on social
> work - a field that has long had at best only
> nominal success in terms of making their charges
> independent from all forms of addicting
> entitlements - they the school will end up hiring
> people that are strong on social work issues and
> low on academics - which is of course why middle
> class people are upset at the schools. It sounds
> cold and disheartening - but not really - schools
> should focus on education - and mostly only
> education - period. They ought to do well in what
> they are charged to do - and in turn - they will
> instill confidence in their communities and
> prosper. Put otherwise, if schools view
> themselves as the social safety net and babysitter
> of last resort - that is of course what they over
> time will become.


Quantum, I always appreciate your comments. They are well thought out and take into account many perspectives etc. I just came across a study that looks at how high achieving students are fairing under NCLB (basically saying lower achieving students are lessening the gap, but the higher achieving aren't increasing their scores to an equivalent degree). Here is the link if you (or anyone else) is interested: http://www.edexcellence.net/doc/20080618_high_achievers.pdf

I grant you nothing is formal...but contact Tisdadt's office and you'll see...moving Fox Mill etc to Hughes is on the table. It tidies up a lot of loose ends from the last RD.

The heck with CAPS...vote with your feet before the rush becomes a stampede.



rumors about middle schools Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems the rumor mill is out about middle school
> solely to boost the coffers of the organization
> known as CAPS. How many more lies can that group
> spread in order to get people to donate money to
> their cause? Or can these people give you
> truthful information about the purported closing
> of SL or the supposed moving of students from one
> middle school to another?

The lawsuit won't mean anything, the judge will get a good laugh. Even if FCPS was taking the lawsuit seriuosly they could stone wall it for years.

Civil suits can take up 10 years.

The hearing is July 3...if the suit is deemed frivolous, it will be tossed that day. If it has merit, a decision will come within a week. If the decision is in favor of the SB, life goes on. If the decision is in favor of CAPS, the SB may appeal, but the RD will be halted until the appeal is heard...even if the SB wins on appeal, the RD will have been delayed by a year. The SB will not be allowed to stick with the RD if they lose and appeal.

So, you're mistaken...we'll know something in a few weeks. Each side can cross their fingers for their favored outcome.

I was reading over minutes from a 1/29/2008 meeting of the Business and Community Advisory Council. From page 1:

"During his budget presentation, Dale noted that the achievement gap between Asian and White students and Black and Hispanic students remain high and that schools with smaller percentage of Blacks and Hispanic students in relation to the overall population often showed larger gaps."

Maybe there was a typo, but that says that schools with lower percentages of minority populations have larger achievement gaps???

Does that make any sense?

If that is correct, it defeats this "efficiency" argument made by the SB to reduce percentages of minorities (or FRM whichever).

LMAO, Yeah I'm filing a civil suit against VDOT to get the speed limit changed to 95 mph on the beltway because I don't like that public policy.



The lawsuit will tell all... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The hearing is July 3...if the suit is deemed
> frivolous, it will be tossed that day. If it has
> merit, a decision will come within a week. If the
> decision is in favor of the SB, life goes on. If
> the decision is in favor of CAPS, the SB may
> appeal, but the RD will be halted until the appeal
> is heard...even if the SB wins on appeal, the RD
> will have been delayed by a year. The SB will not
> be allowed to stick with the RD if they lose and
> appeal.
>
> So, you're mistaken...we'll know something in a
> few weeks. Each side can cross their fingers for
> their favored outcome.

Come on...your note even trying to be thoughtful. If you read any of the preceding thousands of posts, you'd know the legal issues, and the basis for the suit. You do not have to like the suit, or the proponents of it. But at least try to comment intelligently why you think the arguments are legally baseless. Or you can just spit and hiss...but I think you are smart enough to have intelligent comments.

LMAO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LMAO, Yeah I'm filing a civil suit against VDOT to
> get the speed limit changed to 95 mph on the
> beltway because I don't like that public policy.
>
>
>
> The lawsuit will tell all... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The hearing is July 3...if the suit is deemed
> > frivolous, it will be tossed that day. If it
> has
> > merit, a decision will come within a week. If
> the
> > decision is in favor of the SB, life goes on.
> If
> > the decision is in favor of CAPS, the SB may
> > appeal, but the RD will be halted until the
> appeal
> > is heard...even if the SB wins on appeal, the
> RD
> > will have been delayed by a year. The SB will
> not
> > be allowed to stick with the RD if they lose
> and
> > appeal.
> >
> > So, you're mistaken...we'll know something in a
> > few weeks. Each side can cross their fingers
> for
> > their favored outcome.

Come on...your note is not even trying to be thoughtful. If you read any of the preceding thousands of posts, you'd know the legal issues, and the basis for the suit. You do not have to like the suit, or the proponents of it. But at least try to comment intelligently why you think the arguments are legally baseless. Or you can just spit and hiss...but I think you are smart enough to have intelligent comments.

LMAO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LMAO, Yeah I'm filing a civil suit against VDOT to
> get the speed limit changed to 95 mph on the
> beltway because I don't like that public policy.
>
>
>
> The lawsuit will tell all... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The hearing is July 3...if the suit is deemed
> > frivolous, it will be tossed that day. If it
> has
> > merit, a decision will come within a week. If
> the
> > decision is in favor of the SB, life goes on.
> If
> > the decision is in favor of CAPS, the SB may
> > appeal, but the RD will be halted until the
> appeal
> > is heard...even if the SB wins on appeal, the
> RD
> > will have been delayed by a year. The SB will
> not
> > be allowed to stick with the RD if they lose
> and
> > appeal.
> >
> > So, you're mistaken...we'll know something in a
> > few weeks. Each side can cross their fingers
> for
> > their favored outcome.

Nell Hurley helps her 11-year-old daughter, Kagan Jenkins, with math homework. Hurley has helped fight for keeping Advance Placement classes in Woodson High school while getting rid of the International Baccalaureate classes.
Jessica Tefft (THE WASHINGTON TIMES)


The Bush administration has begun issuing grants to help spread a United Nations-sponsored school program that aims to become a "universal curriculum" for teaching global citizenship, peace studies and equality of world cultures.
The goal is to devise a curriculum to teach "a set of culturally neutral universal values to which all people aspire," based on human rights, equality of the sexes and "open-mindedness to change and obligation to environmental protection and sustainable development."
The U.S. Education Department has issued its first $1.2 million grant to implement the European-based International Baccalaureate (IB) program in middle schools that are to become "feeder schools" for the IB's high school diploma program in low-income school districts.
"We are ever mindful of the lessons of September 11, one of which is that all future measures of a rigorous K-12 education must include a solid grounding in other cultures, other languages and other histories," Education Secretary Rod Paige said a year ago as he announced new global-education initiatives in U.S. schools.
"In other words, we need to put the 'world' back into 'world-class' education," he said.
Some educators are skeptical. An official in the Reagan administration says he was "a wee bit put off" by the program's approach. An education adviser to the current Bush administration calls the approach "an educator fad," and a retired official of the National Science Foundation says many of the peer reviewers in the program are "hard left-leaners."
The Education Department grant will expand the IB program initially in Arizona, Massachusetts and New York.
The IB curriculum has been adopted by about 1,450 schools in 115 countries, including 502 schools in the United States. The program is in 55 primary, middle and secondary schools in the District, Maryland and Virginia.
U.S. schools that have committed to the European program spend an estimated $85 million to $100 million a year beyond regular school expenses for teacher salaries and other costs, according to government records. Fairfax County schools alone spend $1.8 million a year in additional costs for the IB program.
The major additional costs are teacher development and online courses, which the federal grant supports; IB fees; and expenses to send U.S. student tests and papers for scoring and evaluation by IB officials in Europe.
An IB regulation accepted by participating American schools requires that all tests and written papers of American students sent to Europe for grading or evaluation "become the absolute property" of the International Baccalaureate Organization (IBO) in Geneva.
The program was originally devised in the mid-1960s for children of globe-trotting European diplomats, who wanted a standard curriculum that would lead to admission for graduates to any top-flight university in the world.
"With the advent of international schools and their population of students from diverse cultures came a curriculum problem," Ian Hill, deputy director-general of the IBO, told a 2001 conference convened by the United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research.
"Teachers were concerned about the inappropriateness of national curricula for providing a truly global dimension and international experience in the academic program," he told the conference titled "Education for Disarmament."
So in 1996, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization formed a partnership with the IBO and International Schools Association, both based in Geneva, to create the universal "curriculum framework for peace education."
Project participants "see education as the principal vehicle for developing and inculcating the habits of peace in school-age children," UNESCO's International Bureau of Education announced at the time.

Cultural neutrality
Mr. Hill, a former school administrator from Tasmania, Australia, said the role of international education and culture, is to fulfill the vision of UNESCO's constitution in its opening words: "Since wars begin in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defenses of peace must be constructed."
"We cannot hide from one another and we can't eliminate dissident groups. We have to learn to live together," he said.
The Bush administration's $1.2 million grant from the Education Department's Advanced Placement Incentives Program (APIP) is to train teachers and set up six middle- and high-school "partnerships" to implement the IB curriculum for minority students.
Funding approval was recommended by "independent peer reviewers" under the APIP, spokeswoman Susan M. Aspey said. The proposal was ranked third out of 117 applications by outside academic experts "chosen specifically for their deep knowledge of the types of programs under review," Miss Aspey said.
Syl McNinch Jr., a retired budget officer for the National Science Foundation, said many federal education peer-reviewers of grant applications "are hard left-leaners."
"Unlike science and engineering, the realm of education often has to do with values and teaching the kids what to think on major issues," Mr. McNinch said.
"That's why you have to be very careful in granting federal money for these purposes, because it carries with it the power to implement those programs in schools across the nation, whether the taxpayers like it or not," he said.

Think globally, not locally
The UNESCO program started with IBO in 1996 was initially called the International Education System Pilot Project (IESPP).
"[The project] was established with the ambitious aim of testing the feasibility of creating an international education system," UNESCO announced in a September 1999 issue of its Educational Innovation and Information newsletter titled "A Culture of Peace."
"Thus it would incidentally contribute to an improvement in peace education through a small-scale project involving schools from diverse cultures," the newsletter said.
In a statement called "The Road to Peace," UNESCO said: "Let it be a school of values, of attitudes, above all of practical action so that we learn to obtain justice through nonviolence and ensure that all human rights become a living reality for every person. ...
"One major premise underlying the project is that peace education is not to be seen as a separate discipline within the curriculum."
The IB curriculum, UNESCO said, would promote human rights and social justice; the need for "sustainable development"; and address population, health, environmental and immigration concerns.
"Changing patterns of national and international migration and political and social transformation have given cultural diversity a new importance," the statement said.
Bradley W. Richardson, director of International Baccalaureate North America in New York City, said the program's "ties to the United Nations and UNESCO are both historic and collegial."
"We have an advisory status as [a nongovernment organization] with UNESCO, but that relationship does not extend to curriculum development or assessments.
"IB's association with UNESCO should not signal anything sinister or anti-American," Mr. Richardson said.
There are "a wide variety of opinions and experiences with IB," he said. "Far from being a monolith, IB accommodates a diversity of thought, backgrounds, opinions and worldviews."
IBO has a curriculum center in Cardiff, Wales, and directs its global curriculum and scores student tests and papers at its Geneva headquarters.
George Walker, IB's director-general in Geneva, said in June that the program remains committed to changing children's values so they think globally, rather than in parochial national terms from their own country's viewpoint.
"International education offers people a state of mind; international-mindedness," Mr. Walker said in a recent IBO background paper titled "Education weaves together the threads of peace."
"We need an education that recognizes the realities of the 21st century. We're living on a planet that is becoming exhausted. People everywhere aspire to the standards of living that people in the West take for granted, and at the same time, they want to maintain cultural differences that they feel make life worth living," he said.
The IBO background paper said the curriculum is a multicultural approach that differs from traditional direct instruction of facts and historically learned knowledge.
"Most national education systems at the moment encourage students to seek the truth, memorize it, and reproduce it accurately. The real world is not this simple. International education has to reconcile this diversity with the unity of the human condition,' " the paper said.

Pushing 'one-worldism'
Chester E. Finn Jr., president of the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation and former assistant secretary of education in the Reagan administration, said he was "a wee bit put off" by IB's "one-worldism and fashionable leftism of their social studies courses, but they weren't worse than what regular American curricula were peddling and the academic expectations were far more rigorous."
Mr. Finn said the program is "inherently internationalist, so it's not going to have any signs of patriotic Americanism — nor, let us hope, Francophilia or Sinophilia or any other such [patriotic expression]."
"The IBO programs promote a constructivist approach to learning," the 1999 UNESCO document stated. "Teachers recognize that students bring prior knowledge to any learning situation and will come into contact with the curriculum through activities designed by the teacher. The students make sense of their experiences to construct meaning."
As an example, fourth-grade teachers at Christ Church Episcopal School in Greenville, S.C., said they "set about fomenting an uprising in our classrooms" in order to allow their 9- and 10-year-old students to understand the dynamics of the American Revolution leading to independence in 1776.
Writing in May in "IB World," the program's international magazine, four teachers said they wanted the children "to experience personally the forces that lead to revolution, without shedding blood in the classroom, of course."
The teachers said they circulated a fake official-sounding memorandum that told students their recesses were cut to make up for days that school had been canceled for snow. "The students were really angry, pointing out that the lost classes had not been their fault and that they had not been consulted about this," the teachers wrote.
The students' own proposal for Saturday classes instead of cutting recess was rejected. As discussions ensued, one student called on classmates to "take over the school," and another student demanded that they "go on strike."
"I'm not sure fighting for recess is that important, but fighting for freedom is," one student said.
"This was the moment of truth," the teachers wrote. "This was the connection that made the 18th-century American Revolution real to these 21st-century students."

Constructivism gone awry
Diane Ravitch, education-research professor at New York University and an adviser to the Bush administration, says the constructivist approach is an educator fad that has gone awry.
"It became axiomatic among constructivists that knowledge is not transmitted directly from one knower to another, but is actively built up by the learner," she wrote in her book, "Left Back: A Century of Battles over School Reform."
"This meant that teachers must never lecture or 'tell,' that any memorization was intolerable, that instruction was a discredited form of behaviorism, and that up-to-date teachers viewed themselves as 'facilitators' of learning," Mrs. Ravitch said.
"Surely a middle ground was needed, one where students could actively solve problems at the same time as they mastered basic skills and gained new knowledge under the guidance of capable teachers," she added.
In IB's two-year high school diploma program, pupils study three major subjects at the "higher level" and three minor subjects at the "standard level," which must include mathematics, humanities, and at least one science and a foreign language.
Students also must take IB's philosophical course on "Theory of Knowledge" and research and write a 4,000-word extended essay on a subject of their choice, similar to a university thesis, under the supervision of a teacher.
IB-diploma students also must complete 150 hours of extracurricular "Creativity, Action and Service," which could include sports, music, art, drama, and volunteer service in the community.
English courses use a "Prescribed World Literature List" of 421 authors, including 57 from England and the United States. Critics, however, question the narrow selection.
Students must study three works of world literature, originally written in a different language than that of the students and normally read in translation, Mr. Hill, IBO deputy director-general, said.
"The purpose of world literature is to develop an appreciation of how different cultures influence and mold the experiences of life," Mr. Hill said in his paper for the U.N. Education for Disarmament conference.
"Students will develop values, attitudes and respect for behavior and points of view different from their own without necessarily being in agreement," he said.
Mr. Richardson said teachers are free to bring in literature outside the program's prescribed list. He said teachers also can engage students in study and discussion of many contentious world issues.
"Those schools that wish to give an emphasis to environmental studies, to land-mine programs, or other world issues can do so, but within a program that is intellectually challenging for everyone," he said.
When asked about the IB's promotion of issues dealing with global peace and economic justice, Mr. Richardson denied that the program's courses have a political or social-activist agenda.
"While the course requires that these 'politically correct' questions be engaged, it in no way (nor does the assessment) requires any particular response to the questions. A 'conservative' answer well done will always score higher than a 'liberal' answer poorly done."

RELATED STORIES:

Parents question values of IB studies

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Critics of the International Baccalaureate program at Reston's Langston Hughes Middle School and South Lakes High School have focused on the program's promotion of cultural egalitarianism, pacifism and what they say is its anti-Western bias.
"Administrators do not tell you that the current IB program for ages three through grade 12 promotes socialism, disarmament, radical environmentalism, and moral relativism, while attempting to undermine Christian religious values and national sovereignty," Jeanne Geiger wrote last year in the Reston Connection, a local newspaper.
Mrs. Geiger opposed her children being enrolled in International Baccalaureate (IB) classes at South Lakes. "The proposed sociological 'outcomes' follow politically correct thought and behavior assessments," she said.
Rena J. Berlin, Fairfax County's IB coordinator at Langston Hughes Middle School, said she knows Mrs. Geiger and other critics "very well," but believes "that all students who learn how to think globally, how to make connections between subjects, and how to 'learn how to learn' will be better prepared to be IB diploma students when they get to 11th grade."
Mrs. Berlin said her school has "students from around the globe. ... "
"Our IB programs dig deep into education and the feeling of the community, and the programs make us part of our world.
"After all, it is our students who will change the world and we need to allow them to be the fine citizens of America and the world that they have the potential to be," she said.
Mrs. Geiger and a friend, Anne Hall of Reston, have rallied opposition against the IB program for several years.
Mrs. Hall echoed criticisms of parents at Woodson High School in Fairfax — where the IB program was dropped — that most U.S. colleges and universities award course credit to incoming freshmen only for high-level IB courses "similar in difficulty to the Advanced Placement (AP) courses."
On IB exams, she noted, high school students are scored on a scale of one to seven and Fairfax County recognizes four as a passing grade. For AP exams, students are graded on a scale of one to five and Fairfax County recognizes three as a passing score.
But colleges set the bar higher, Mrs. Hall said.
"More selective institutions only award credit for AP exam scores of four and five, and high-level IB exam scores of six and seven, and will not consider any standard-level IB exam scores."
She added that "some schools will not award any IB credit unless the student has earned the full IB diploma," which requires them to take more than six required IB courses, write a 4,000-word extended essay like a college thesis, and do 150 hours of extracurricular activities or community service during 11th and 12th grades.
"Information from eight Virginia universities shows that an Advanced Placement exam score of three has a 52 percent acceptance rate, a higher-level IB exam score of 4 has a 33 percent acceptance rate, and a standard-level IB exam score of four has a 2 percent acceptance rate.
"Parents and students who do not have six-figure incomes or trust funds available for college tuitions will be interested in this distinction," Mrs. Hall said.
Sandra Wade Pauly, IB North America's university and government liaison, acknowledges that "IBNA has always faced a unique challenge" in convincing U.S. colleges and universities of the worth of its "holistic and interdisciplinary approach" to learning.
She said IBNA is funding a push to convince more colleges and admissions officials to accept its high school diploma program.

Fairfax 'backlash' ousted IB program


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Parents and teachers at Woodson High School in Fairfax succeeded in ousting the Geneva-based International Baccalaureate curriculum.
This is the first year that college-bound Woodson students are no longer enrolled in the European program pushed by the United Nations and have returned to the U.S. College Board's Advanced Placement (AP) program.
"The school was an AP school. They were just in the process of converting over to" the IB program, Fairfax County School Superintendent Daniel Domenech said of the Woodson battle that started in 1999.
There was "a significant backlash against the IB program" as he became county superintendent, Mr. Domenech said in an interview.
Woodson parents and teachers rebelled because they found that IB's required standard-level courses making up half the curriculum's two-year high school diploma program were not accepted by top-ranked Virginia colleges that their highly achieving children aspired to attend.
"It is the death knell," E.J. Nell Hurley, mother of four daughters in Fairfax public schools, said of the IB program.
Mr. Domenech credited Mrs. Hurley, an unsuccessful candidate for the Fairfax County School Board in elections Nov. 4, for leading the fight to remove the program from Woodson.
"The admissions director for the University of Virginia told us, 'If you are at an IB school and you are not going for the IB diploma, don't waste your time applying to UVa. or any other top-rated schools. Your child's application will go to the bottom of the admissions pile,' " Mrs. Hurley said in an interview.
She said the University of Virginia gave just nine academic credits to a J.E.B. Stuart High School graduate with an IB diploma, after two years of IB courses, while the university gave her oldest daughter, Ellen, 36 credits — a full year of college work — for AP courses taken at Woodson.
Mrs. Hurley said her younger daughter, Caitlin, told the J.E.B. Stuart graduate: "You did all that work and you got nine lousy credits?" She then said: "Mom, I'm not going to do all that work and get so little recognition for it. It's not worth it."
Bradley W. Richardson, director of IB North America in New York, said that while many colleges do not give credit for standard-level IB courses, "over 150 universities in North America now give credit for the full IB diploma and, therefore, are giving credit to standard levels."
Mrs. Hurley said she was inspired by teacher Susan H. Shue, chairwoman of Woodson's social studies department. Mrs. Hurley said Mrs. Shue stressed that IB was usurping control over the school program.
"She had the guts to stand there in front of the brand-new principal and the area director," Mrs. Hurley said of Mrs. Shue. Mrs. Shue did not wish to be interviewed.
Mrs. Hurley said Mrs. Shue told school officials that "because the whole school has to become oriented around the IB program, the master schedule has to run around the IB students. ... That's part of the requirement to be an IB school, that the IB diploma is the premier drive on running the entire school, and it hurts every other student."

Will someone please hurry up and take the time to read the post by IB? When you do will you provide those of us without patience a readers digest version? It must have been posted by a current or former IB diploma student. They are known for their writing skills and apparently length.

I stumbled on these articles also in my Google quest for IB/FCPS information. These are articles from 2004 regarding the ouster of IB from Woodson HS. The charge was led by a SB candidate by name of Nell Hurley. Interesting read because it gives us a look back at the IB/AP debate back at Woodson a few years back.

Too Long: it is essentially 3 (or was it 4) articles dealing with IB at Woodson and South Lakes. Shows how/when Woodson got rid of IB and the articles on South Lakes and Langston Huges are from when IB was first introduced in those schools, since some of the names aren't current faculty. (i.e. the IB coordinator at Hughes is different now).

All you rich fancy people are only afraid of letting your kids go to sl or hughes because you dont want your kid hanging out with someone lower class or of a different race. I think some of you use the IB thing to hide the race thing.You believe and compose rumors that have no truth to them at all some of you arent even being redisricted but are complaining and most of you havent even toured the schools on a normal day and see what really goes around all school have some good and bad to them but some of you recognize the bad.And I bet you didnt know that 70 percent of rd kids are going to sl and a stupid lawsuit is a wasted of money and isnt gonna do S*%T. If you dont want your kids to go to sl pupil place or send them to a private school!

More Data - the statement makes sense to me - because it is Fairfax County. If one assumes at the better schools - let's take Oakton for instance - that the top 20% of the class - and this is a fair assumption - obtains a 1300 score on the "old" portions of SAT - then that fact will widen the gap, so to speak, fairly materially. Nationwide, there are likely a little over a thousand to 1500 underrepresented minority students who perform at that level, and while thankfully a few of them are here in Fairfax, they are not that many to go around, and any school - especially since TJ grabs at least a few - and that is the unfortunately the case - most everywhere they are but a few. This is of course a bit speculative - but this data would not surprise me - the real winners in this knowledge based economy start out for the most part in homes that have significant educational focus and advantages, and most importantly have a fundamental cultural orientation towards education - something that is not easy to fix with a plethora of "self-esteem" programs that have proliferated. But your question is a good one.

Sounds like Timmy got on Mommy's computer again. Timmy, Timmy, Timmy...sounds to me like the few rich fancy folks at SL feel outnumbered by "the others" and want to find some new friends for their darling kids, Biff and Buffy. But, the few rich and fancy folks at SL are not upper crust enough to hang with the really cool cats of Langley (or even north Reston), so they had to settle for lowly middle class folks at Fox Mill and Floris. Or was that the plan...get middle class folks in as a buffer between Biff and Buffy and "the others"...that way, Biff and Buffy can reign supreme at Homecoming. Cool beans!

Go mow the grass, you lazy bum...and let the adults talk in private.


BS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All you rich fancy people are only afraid of
> letting your kids go to sl or hughes because you
> dont want your kid hanging out with someone lower
> class or of a different race. I think some of you
> use the IB thing to hide the race thing.You
> believe and compose rumors that have no truth to
> them at all some of you arent even being
> redisricted but are complaining and most of you
> havent even toured the schools on a normal day and
> see what really goes around all school have some
> good and bad to them but some of you recognize
> the bad.And I bet you didnt know that 70 percent
> of rd kids are going to sl and a stupid lawsuit is
> a wasted of money and isnt gonna do S*%T. If you
> dont want your kids to go to sl pupil place or
> send them to a private school!

According to the FCPS press release from 9/17/2007, 277 FCPS students-which was 78% of candidates earned the IB diploma in 2007. Eight schools offer IB which means that there were about 35 students per school. Here are the results by school:

Robinson/ 1226 exams taken/ 80% scored a 4 or better (out of 7)
Marshall HS/ 751 exams taken/81% scored a 4 or better
Lee HS/ 648 exams taken/74.5% scored a 4 or better
South Lakes HS/644 exams taken/80% scored a 4 or better
Edison HS/ 643 exams taken/77% scored a 4 or better
Annandale HS/ 613 exams taken/70% scored a 4 or better
Stuart HS/499 exams taken/77% scored a 4 or better
Mt Vernon/464 exams taken/69% scored a 4 or better

Out of a total of 5488 exams taken in 2006-07 about 77% were a 4 or better.

In the higher level exams, there were 2394 taken with 83% scoring at a 4 or above. Broken down by subject:

Computer Science/ 2 exams taken
Latin/ 5 exams taken
Film/13 exams taken
Theater Arts/14 exams taken

How do these classes get staffed when 2-5 students take the exam out of 8 high schools?

Biology/143 exams taken/55% scored at 4 or higher
Chemistry/54 exams taken/67% scored at 4 or higher
Mathematics/101 exams taken/64% scored at 4 or higher
Physics/120 exams taken/45% scored a 4 or higher
Business and Management/79 exams taken/67% scored a 4 or higher

I am perplexed as to the efficiency here. 8 high schools and 54 chemistry exams. Of the 54, nobody got a score of 7, and 2 got a score of 6.

Physics-same thing-120 exams in 8 schools. Noone achieved a 7 score and 2 achieved a 6 score.

This does not seem to be a successful program the way I see it.

Do you have comparable test results for AP tests?

Overall, I think science in FCPS -- outside of TJ -- is very weak. Elementary and middle school instruction is very weak, and the few good people they have in high school can't do everything.


IB Participation rates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the FCPS press release from
> 9/17/2007, 277 FCPS students-which was 78% of
> candidates earned the IB diploma in 2007. Eight
> schools offer IB which means that there were about
> 35 students per school. Here are the results by
> school:
>
> Robinson/ 1226 exams taken/ 80% scored a 4 or
> better (out of 7)
> Marshall HS/ 751 exams taken/81% scored a 4 or
> better
> Lee HS/ 648 exams taken/74.5% scored a 4 or
> better
> South Lakes HS/644 exams taken/80% scored a 4 or
> better
> Edison HS/ 643 exams taken/77% scored a 4 or
> better
> Annandale HS/ 613 exams taken/70% scored a 4 or
> better
> Stuart HS/499 exams taken/77% scored a 4 or
> better
> Mt Vernon/464 exams taken/69% scored a 4 or
> better
>
> Out of a total of 5488 exams taken in 2006-07
> about 77% were a 4 or better.
>
> In the higher level exams, there were 2394 taken
> with 83% scoring at a 4 or above. Broken down by
> subject:
>
> Computer Science/ 2 exams taken
> Latin/ 5 exams taken
> Film/13 exams taken
> Theater Arts/14 exams taken
>
> How do these classes get staffed when 2-5 students
> take the exam out of 8 high schools?
>
> Biology/143 exams taken/55% scored at 4 or higher
> Chemistry/54 exams taken/67% scored at 4 or
> higher
> Mathematics/101 exams taken/64% scored at 4 or
> higher
> Physics/120 exams taken/45% scored a 4 or higher
> Business and Management/79 exams taken/67% scored
> a 4 or higher
>
> I am perplexed as to the efficiency here. 8 high
> schools and 54 chemistry exams. Of the 54, nobody
> got a score of 7, and 2 got a score of 6.
>
> Physics-same thing-120 exams in 8 schools. Noone
> achieved a 7 score and 2 achieved a 6 score.
>
> This does not seem to be a successful program the
> way I see it.

There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunligh
And the oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the maples
(and theyre quite convinced theyre right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the oaks cant help their feelings
If they like the way theyre made
And they wonder why the maples
Cant be happy in their shade?

There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the maples scream `oppression!`
And the oaks, just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
the oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light
Now theres no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal

rush

rumor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes. If a course is being dumbed down, parents
> > should complain.
>
>
> I had thought you were for open enrollment for AP,
> based on your statements that a school can't place
> restrictions on pupil placing into an AP school
> based on gpa or teacher rec.
>
> Clearly if there is true open enrollment in the AP
> schools, there will be at least a section or 2
> that is, as you put it, being "dumbed down"
>
> How do you advocate for both open enrollment and
> fighting a course being dumbed down?]

I am totally consistent. Any student who wants to enroll in an AP course should be able to do that. That doesn't mean that the course has to change to accommodate him. If he can't keep up, he shouldn't be in the course. There is no reason to dumb down any AP classes. Those who can't do well in an AP class shouldn't take the AP class.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2008 12:39AM by Neen.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt the SB wants to walk down the RD path with
> Fox Mill and Floris again. But if the GT Center at
> Hughes were closed, the school would most
> certainly fail NCLB. And the only way to fix that
> would be to add students to the mix. Hughes is a
> dreadful environment, much worse than SLHS. They
> should consider closing it down.

Since they didn't close SL when they should have, they can't now close Hughes. When they abolish middle school centers next year, Hughes will need bodies. It's easy to justify sending Fox Mill and Floris with the justification that they need the middle school IB program to do well at SL. I have little doubt that the school board will feel that's an easy move for them to make.

IB Diploma rates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I accidentally posted on the wrong thread.
>
> I attended Lee's graduation yesterday and in the
> program they list 398 graduates and 47 full IB
> diploma candidates. I would guess that half are
> minorities.

Half are Asians? Or the minority that matters in FCPS?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When they abolish
> middle school centers next year, Hughes will need
> bodies. It's easy to justify sending Fox Mill and
> Floris with the justification that they need the
> middle school IB program to do well at SL. I have
> little doubt that the school board will feel
> that's an easy move for them to make.

Why do you say they will close middle school centers next year? Do you have a link to a document that asserts that? Luther Jackson just hired more GT center teachers to get their second year of GT on board, and all of the information I see describes levels 1-4, and clearly discusses middle school GT centers through 2011 (doesn't mean they won't exist after 2011, just that that was the current document). There is discussion about honors courses in those documents, but they clearly address that honors and center are two differing curriculum, and mention no plans of doing away with either.

If this isn't a rumor maybe there is something going on where herndon feeders like Aldrin want to distance themselves from involvement with the South lakes pyramid. Are Aldrin and Armstrong getting Horn's level iv? If those 2 had 50 at hughes GTc then it could be seen as replacing them with 50 or more from Aldrin as base school kids at Hughes that would stay at South Lakes across the parking lot from Hughes for high school.

Hunters woods gets students who don't go to Hughes -Waples Mill, Crossfield, Navy.

Did Floris and Fox Mill plus others use to go to hughes for GT center before carson opened?

They benefit from one of the highest per pupil costs for non ESL or FRPM students in this county before adding on transportation.

FCPS is gradually dismantling the GT Centers. They are putting in more "self-contained" GT classes at base elementary schools. There is a proposal to stop busing GT students to a GT Center if there is a self-contained class at the base elementary school, forcing these kids out of the centers. Eventually there will only be the self-contained GT classes. Then these classes will be denounced as the evil tracking and will be discontinued.

One school board member stated that middle schools didn't need both GT and Honors. There has also been discussion of having a GT center at each middle school.

In the same way that it was denied that middle schools would be redistricted and this year middle school redistricting may be on the table. Changes are made one phase at a time to minimize public outcry.

rumor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When they abolish
> > middle school centers next year, Hughes will
> need
> > bodies. It's easy to justify sending Fox Mill
> and
> > Floris with the justification that they need
> the
> > middle school IB program to do well at SL. I
> have
> > little doubt that the school board will feel
> > that's an easy move for them to make.
>
> Why do you say they will close middle school
> centers next year? Do you have a link to a
> document that asserts that? Luther Jackson just
> hired more GT center teachers to get their second
> year of GT on board, and all of the information I
> see describes levels 1-4, and clearly discusses
> middle school GT centers through 2011 (doesn't
> mean they won't exist after 2011, just that that
> was the current document). There is discussion
> about honors courses in those documents, but they
> clearly address that honors and center are two
> differing curriculum, and mention no plans of
> doing away with either.

Computer Science:

IB schools (8) 2 exams taken
AP schools (17) 445 (class A) exams taken, 244 (Class AB) exams taken

Biology:

IB schools (8) 143 exams taken 55% proficient
AP schools (17) 955 exams taken 70% proficient

Chemistry:

IB schools (8) 54 exams taken
AP schools (17) 889 exams taken


Physics:

IB schools (8) 120 exams taken 45% proficient
AP schools (17) 211 exams (Physics B) 65% proficient, 370 exams (Physics C-Mechanics), 66% proficient, 227 exams taken (physics C-Electric and Magnetic), 68% proficient

From what I can see, students wishing to pursue the sciences are better served in our AP schools-let's screw the minorities yet again.

AP proficiency levels are higher than IB schools. I can only imagine where the higher quality staffing, equipment is, given that the particupation rates are 2-3 times higher at AP schools.

I don't get the justification for this program.

Question for Neen - I saw this on another thread. Aren't these areas in the Madison HS district?


Re: D.C. Region's Foreclosure Rate Soars
Posted by: Just givin lip-service (IP Logged)
Date: June 19, 2008 09:04AM


Just received my June edition of the Town of Vienna Newsletter (propaganda). You know, the one with Mayor Jane Seeman’s picture on page 3 with the adjoining self-promoting article “We Can Do Better”. The Mayor is quick to promote that “SEVERAL YEARS AGO VIENNA WAS RATED THE FOURTH BEST PLACE TO LIVE IN AMERICA” What the Mayor failed to mention is that in 2007 MONEY MAGAZINE RATED VIENNA IN 70th PLACE OUT OF 100; A DROP OF 66 PLACES IN 3 YEARS!!! The Mayor remarks “Again, that’s quite an accomplishment” “But we can do better” A major reason for Vienna’s decline, literally and figuratively, can be laid at the feet of the “afraid-to-do-anything” Town Officials that continue to allow the Cedar Park Shopping Center and Vienna Park Apartments to fuel the decline of the neighborhoods in SE/SW Vienna. One Vienna resident was recently quoted in the press "I live in a million dollar home in the middle of a ghetto". No wonder nobody would want to move into a town that allows over-crowded apartments, uncontrolled shopping centers and flop-houses to flourish. Who in their right mind would seriously give consideration of moving their family and loved-ones into such an area?

The Mayor closes the article with “We can all do better and everyone one of us – staff, elected officials, and citizens – can resolve to make Vienna an even better place to live and do business”. Well Madam Mayor, is this comment a bunch of self-serving words for your ego, or are you, as an “elected official” actually going to do something, anything, to make the SE/SW neighborhoods “an even better place to live and do business”?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rush

Congratulations!

You are the first person to post a fact without a wild political spin agenda attached.

I will be sending you this months copy of The Washingtonian and the guide to Fairfax real estate bargains.

I do recall Gibson and others on the board saying that GT centers were not cost-effective because a) transportation costs; and b) the desire to keep "gifted" kids in their base schools to pull up averages. By phasing out the GT center at Hughes, they make room for Fox Mill/Floris kids. Then the average scores of the general population of Hughes rises, resulting in a school that meets the NCLB goals without the expense of a GT center. Recall, the GT center was placed at Hughes a) because there was room due to the large # of families who went to private school etc to avoid Hughes; and b) to mask the performance numbers of the general population. The new plan does the same thing, with less expense. In 2009, Fox Mill and Floris rising 7th graders will be sent to Hughes. In 2010, rising 8th graders as well.

I also predict there will be no grandfathering or pupil placement options (except for anyone who is child of a FCPS employee).

As horrible as this sounds, I am sure the SB thinks it is sensible. They are trying to raise the average scores of as many schools as they can. Gibson, in particular, is focused on balancing "his" schools. Because dragging Langley areas into Reston would be a declaration of war with Janie, it will not happen. Because no Langley into SL or Herndon, there will be no Armstrong/Aldrin into SL/Hughes. It is a domino effect...

Bottom line, Fox Mill and Floris are now part of south Reston...buy your South Lakes and Langston Hughes t-shirts now...you can kiss Carson good bye.


Westfield Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS is gradually dismantling the GT Centers.
> They are putting in more "self-contained" GT
> classes at base elementary schools. There is a
> proposal to stop busing GT students to a GT Center
> if there is a self-contained class at the base
> elementary school, forcing these kids out of the
> centers. Eventually there will only be the
> self-contained GT classes. Then these classes
> will be denounced as the evil tracking and will be
> discontinued.
>
> One school board member stated that middle schools
> didn't need both GT and Honors. There has also
> been discussion of having a GT center at each
> middle school.
>
> In the same way that it was denied that middle
> schools would be redistricted and this year middle
> school redistricting may be on the table. Changes
> are made one phase at a time to minimize public
> outcry.
>
> rumor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > When they abolish
> > > middle school centers next year, Hughes will
> > need
> > > bodies. It's easy to justify sending Fox
> Mill
> > and
> > > Floris with the justification that they need
> > the
> > > middle school IB program to do well at SL. I
> > have
> > > little doubt that the school board will feel
> > > that's an easy move for them to make.
> >
> > Why do you say they will close middle school
> > centers next year? Do you have a link to a
> > document that asserts that? Luther Jackson
> just
> > hired more GT center teachers to get their
> second
> > year of GT on board, and all of the information
> I
> > see describes levels 1-4, and clearly discusses
> > middle school GT centers through 2011 (doesn't
> > mean they won't exist after 2011, just that
> that
> > was the current document). There is discussion
> > about honors courses in those documents, but
> they
> > clearly address that honors and center are two
> > differing curriculum, and mention no plans of
> > doing away with either.

I know this will inflame some, but Rachel Carson very likely is the single best public middle school (in terms of overall quality of students) in the Commonwealth. I can't imagine anyone being the least bit thrilled about being transferred from Carson to Hughes, especially in the absence of a GT center at Hughes. At some point these things can get quickly beyond logic to a high level of emotion, and I can't think of any other move that would enrage people so rapidly and so quickly. Carson is the only school in Fairfax County that I have come across has the same look and feel of the nationally excellent, locally accountable small district public middle and high school I attended in the Midwest. Others must certainly feel the same way.

By the way, I have had four close relatives go through Hughes - I think some concerns are overblown, but even in the GT program, let's just say they had some experiences that were, ahem, hardly to be expected in suburbia (but all survived and are doing exceedingly well, I might add, and they laugh about it too today). But no doubt at some level the concerns people have about the place have validity, and query what is being done to improve the place. Interesting to see if someone could shed more light on what daily student life for the average student is at Hughes.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this will inflame some, but Rachel Carson
> very likely is the single best public middle
> school (in terms of overall quality of students)
> in the Commonwealth. I can't imagine anyone being
> the least bit thrilled about being transferred
> from Carson to Hughes, especially in the absence
> of a GT center at Hughes. At some point these
> things can get quickly beyond logic to a high
> level of emotion, and I can't think of any other
> move that would enrage people so rapidly and so
> quickly. Carson is the only school in Fairfax
> County that I have come across has the same look
> and feel of the nationally excellent, locally
> accountable small district public middle and high
> school I attended in the Midwest. Others must
> certainly feel the same way.
>
> By the way, I have had four close relatives go
> through Hughes - I think some concerns are
> overblown, but even in the GT program, let's just
> say they had some experiences that were, ahem,
> hardly to be expected in suburbia (but all
> survived and are doing exceedingly well, I might
> add, and they laugh about it too today). But no
> doubt at some level the concerns people have about
> the place have validity, and query what is being
> done to improve the place. Interesting to see if
> someone could shed more light on what daily
> student life for the average student is at Hughes.

I'm not inflamed or angry. I am curious as to why you sing Carson's praises so loudly. What makes it unique in FFX in your view (or, more accurately, similar to what your Midwest school)? It's obviously part of the county system, and the test scores are similar to those at a number of other middle schools in the county. What is the special "look and feel"?

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this will inflame some, but Rachel Carson
> very likely is the single best public middle
> school (in terms of overall quality of students)
> in the Commonwealth. I can't imagine anyone being
> the least bit thrilled about being transferred
> from Carson to Hughes, especially in the absence
> of a GT center at Hughes. At some point these
> things can get quickly beyond logic to a high
> level of emotion, and I can't think of any other
> move that would enrage people so rapidly and so
> quickly. Carson is the only school in Fairfax
> County that I have come across has the same look
> and feel of the nationally excellent, locally
> accountable small district public middle and high
> school I attended in the Midwest. Others must
> certainly feel the same way.
>
> By the way, I have had four close relatives go
> through Hughes - I think some concerns are
> overblown, but even in the GT program, let's just
> say they had some experiences that were, ahem,
> hardly to be expected in suburbia (but all
> survived and are doing exceedingly well, I might
> add, and they laugh about it too today). But no
> doubt at some level the concerns people have about
> the place have validity, and query what is being
> done to improve the place. Interesting to see if
> someone could shed more light on what daily
> student life for the average student is at Hughes.

good reads on FCPS schools:

A Tribe Apart: A Journey into the Heart of American Adolescence (Ballantine Reader's Circle) (Paperback)
by Patricia Hersch (Author) "My first morning of school, I was scared..." (more)
Key Phrases: tribe apart, adolescent community, locker area, South Lakes, Forest Edge, Charles Sutter (more...)

Supertest by Jay Matthews

Longfellow and the Mclean elementary feeders are similar to your midwest experience. So is Yorktown and it's feeders in North Arlington.

Not so Obvious

Carson:

1. Very Good students - anecodotal for sure - but incredibly high number to TJ, and many of those that don't go on to TJ are just as competent. Tracking the 47 or so who went to on to TJ in my daughter's class years ago, the kids go on to incredibly challenging experiences, similar to what I experienced in my own school days. Some may deem it elitist, but that kind of competency elevates the center of intellectual gravity at the school. It is no surprise to me that Carson gets a 10 out of 10 on the Great Schools rating for academics - a status a few other FCPS middle schools obtain as well. I note Longfellow gets that rating too, as taxpayer points out.

2. Staff that by and large has few vestiges of an entitlement attitude. This can't be appreciated enough.

3. Discipline problems that tend to be relatively minor - but of course every school has its issues. Parents that tend by and large to be involved in their kids education and don't view the school as a babysitter or as a panacea for all of their kids challenges. They generally understand the strengths and weaknesses of the school, and leverage each to their child's advantage.

4. Primary focus that seems to be on fundamental education rather than social services and indoctrination. Certainly not perfect, though. Great teachers can make all of the difference - and great teachers work for good leaders and good schools - because they can - and Carson has a number of them.

5. Least important - but still helpful - a very nice facility. The school is very social - maybe a bit too much so (a comment echoed by the best teachers there) - but it is tough to quibble about a generally pleasant environment, especially with middle schoolers - maybe the toughest years in terms of change.

Things may have changed since my daughter attended - but these were my impressions. Carson held up its end of my taxpayers social contract - as did TJ - although I think TJ is not the be all and end all that many make it out to be.
I am not sure I would feel the same about many other FCPS schools.

By the way, although surely to make some unhappy, except for TJ, which artificially attracts its students beyond typical geographic areas, there is no school in FCPS - in work ethic, academics, student achievement, excellence of teachers, - that comes close to the small school district experience I had in the Midwest. To be fair, even if FCPS wanted to mimic the conduct of this particular district, they would have difficulty doing so given some of the demographic challenges in the county. But it sure makes those who move to Fairfax from areas like my own - and I am far from the first to state this - pretty darn careful about where they live - and frankly, really focused on school boundaries - because they clearly can change.

...Now that the anti-SL battle was lost, it's time to start bashing Hughes. So we should rename this thread middle school redistricting.

Any takers? C'mon Word, Quantum, Neen, it's time to break bad on Hughes and declare how wonderful all other middle schools are in comparison!

Get a friggin' life!!

Quantum, has anyone ever told you that you have an overinflated opinion of yourself?

Wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum, has anyone ever told you that you have an
> overinflated opinion of yourself?

I asked for - and received -an explanation from Quantum as to the basis for his views about Carson. Please don't bash someone for being willing to engage in a civil discourse on this thread.

Quantum is unabashedly elitist, but at least he's honest about it, which I think compares very favorably with the likes of Stuart Gibson and Jane Strauss. They are equally, if not more, elitist, although they cloak their actions in liberal rhetoric designed to hide their true motives.

To Explanation-

I would much prefer to participate in a forum about schools that is critical of schools that are underperforming-like Hughes-than maintain a dishonest discussion about how great all of our schools are.

Some of the scores at Hughes are positively an abomination. The sooner you take off the blinders and deal with the failures at that school, the better off those kids will be.

What would happen to Carson's scores if it had the same socio-economic demographics as Langston Hughes? What would happen at Hughes if it had the same demographics as Carson? Would the Hughes scores still be lower?

Look for yourselves - middle class kids do just as well at Hughes as Carson. We've been through this so many times it is not even worth repeating.

To Quantum, your description of Carson is dead on. Don't know how many years ago your daughter attended, but your impression of the school is still valid, and accurate. That is not to say that there aren't other middle schools in the county that are just as good.

To Explanation, go crawl back under the rock from whence you came, troll.

Is there anyone out there who lives in Fox Mill/Floris that is in favor of, or neutral, moving from Carson to Hughes. Just curious, since there was a minority of folks who were in favor of the SL move. Does the prospect of going to Hughes, rather than Carson, change anything?

Excellent question. Now all those (three or four) idiot mothers including whatsherface from the PTA can see that they've royally screwed up. I'm sure they don't want their precious babies going to Hughes and if that happens what will they say then????? I do live and Fox Mill and the prospect of Hughes will be having me put my house on the market sooner rather than later.

Correction-you stated that middle class kids do quite well at Hughes.....could you define "do well" for the group?

7th grade SOL results:

34% of Blacks failed Reading
30% of Hispanics failed Reading
70% of Blacks failed Math
69% of Hispanics failed Math
45% of Whites failed Math

This school is in their 4th year of needs Improvement and has failed to make AYP in Math or English.

Why would I want my kid to go to this school?

I live in the fragment of Floris that is going to SL. There are some people who are/were neutral or in favor of South Lakes. I don't know anyone who prefers Hughes. Carson has been our school for ten years. It is 5 minutes away from my house as opposed to 15. They do alot of coloring and cutting and pasting there, but the "pre-IB" sounds even worse. Carson is our community school.

When they move Fox Mill and Floris, remember that it is Floris Fragment that gets moved or part of Floris Fragment. And part of Floris will get moved to McNair or Coppermine.



anyone in favor? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there anyone out there who lives in Fox
> Mill/Floris that is in favor of, or neutral,
> moving from Carson to Hughes. Just curious, since
> there was a minority of folks who were in favor of
> the SL move. Does the prospect of going to
> Hughes, rather than Carson, change anything?

As should be apparent from the last RD, it does not matter what you want. It is what the SB wants. Their rationale is, if your kids go there and can pass the SOLs, the percentage of failure of your ethnic group will drop. Thus, with a sleight of hand, the school will make great leaps toward their AYP goals.

It is for the greater good of the county that Fox Mill/Floris move from Carson to Hughes. And, as seen in the last RD, initial parental displeasure evolves to resignation.

I must say, however, that Gibson is exceedingly clever. The phased approach to this, including the cancelling of JI at Floris, is very well orchestrated.



Hughes data Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correction-you stated that middle class kids do
> quite well at Hughes.....could you define "do
> well" for the group?
>
> 7th grade SOL results:
>
> 34% of Blacks failed Reading
> 30% of Hispanics failed Reading
> 70% of Blacks failed Math
> 69% of Hispanics failed Math
> 45% of Whites failed Math
>
> This school is in their 4th year of needs
> Improvement and has failed to make AYP in Math or
> English.
>
> Why would I want my kid to go to this school?

How many families are in this fragment? Why can't they move to Fox Mill or some other school? That is, I am sure Tisdadt's staff can find away to have "big" Floris go to Carson/Westfields, while the sliver goes to Fox Mill/SL. Further tidying of the pyramid. Or maybe they would go to Dogwood. It should not be hard for them to do.


Westfield Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in the fragment of Floris that is going to
> SL. There are some people who are/were neutral or
> in favor of South Lakes. I don't know anyone who
> prefers Hughes. Carson has been our school for
> ten years. It is 5 minutes away from my house as
> opposed to 15. They do alot of coloring and
> cutting and pasting there, but the "pre-IB"
> sounds even worse. Carson is our community
> school.
>
> When they move Fox Mill and Floris, remember that
> it is Floris Fragment that gets moved or part of
> Floris Fragment. And part of Floris will get
> moved to McNair or Coppermine.
>
>
>
> anyone in favor? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is there anyone out there who lives in Fox
> > Mill/Floris that is in favor of, or neutral,
> > moving from Carson to Hughes. Just curious,
> since
> > there was a minority of folks who were in favor
> of
> > the SL move. Does the prospect of going to
> > Hughes, rather than Carson, change anything?

because Wrote:

>............... I must say, however, that Gibson is exceedingly
> clever. The phased approach to this, including
> the cancelling of JI at Floris, is very well
> orchestrated.


JI might have had low enrollment in the upper grades. If it drained classroom teachers many non JI parents might have been happy to see it go.

If what you say is true, why is there a former Langston Hughes Teacher who lives in Reston who pupil placed her child at Carson in lieu of sending her child to Hughes?

Are you blissfully unaware of this?

Do you think this happens for no reason whatsoever?



Question? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What would happen to Carson's scores if it had the
> same socio-economic demographics as Langston
> Hughes? What would happen at Hughes if it had the
> same demographics as Carson? Would the Hughes
> scores still be lower?
>
> Look for yourselves - middle class kids do just as
> well at Hughes as Carson. We've been through this
> so many times it is not even worth repeating.

Pro IB parents are the most racist people in the school. Their children are able to handle all IB classes so they never experience integration. IB classes are predominately white and/or affluent. Where,pray tell, are their students integrating with other races/classes? In the cafeteria? Tell these IB parents to cough up the bucks and move to McLean or go to a private school. They are the biggest hypocrites I have ever known. I am sick of my tax dollars paying for their kids' IB diploma.

moveout Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent question. Now all those (three or four)
> idiot mothers including whatsherface from the PTA
> can see that they've royally screwed up. I'm sure
> they don't want their precious babies going to
> Hughes and if that happens what will they say
> then????? I do live and Fox Mill and the prospect
> of Hughes will be having me put my house on the
> market sooner rather than later.


Bye, idiot.

So FCPS has 4000 extra hs seats, 2000 extra middle school seats and the SB is voting tonight to build a SoCo middle school by December 2011. And they don't know where it's going, how much its going to cost or which renovations for which existing schools are going to be delayed to shove the SoCo middle school into this slot.

With result that excess capacity at the hs level, county wide, will increase to 4600 seats.

All because apparently the SB members from that end of the County don't want to go through an RD process to move Laurel Hill (Lorton) kids into Mt. Vernon, Hayfield or Lake Braddock.

What is wrong with these people?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2008 01:15AM by Thomas More.

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> me too Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think you have a typo...you mean move Fox
> Mill
> > from Carson to Hughes.
> >
> > I too think this would be a disaster. I can
> only
> > hope the lawsuit wins.
> >
> > This is incredible....incredibly sad that is..
> >
> > so sad Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It seems certain that the SB is going to move
> > Fox
> > > Mill (and maybe part of Floris) from Fox Mill
> > to
> > > Langston Hughes. They want to improve the
> > general
> > > scores of the school, so as to balance Carson
> > and
> > > Hughes. The SLPTA and others are also in
> > support
> > > of this move. All the reasons for and
> against
> > the
> > > Oakton-to-SL move will apply. Now is the
> time
> > to
> > > argue (not that it will have an impact). If
> > the
> > > lawsuit wins, it is unlikely to happen. So,
> if
> > > you like Carson, donate to CAPS. If you are
> in
> > SL
> > > domain, hope the suit loses.
>
>
> If this were to happen with moving Fox Mill and
> part of Floris to Hughes, wouldn't Hughes be
> bursting at the seams?

Not when they eliminate middle school GT centers and send those students back to Herndon MS.

rumors about middle schools Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems the rumor mill is out about middle school
> solely to boost the coffers of the organization
> known as CAPS. How many more lies can that group
> spread in order to get people to donate money to
> their cause? Or can these people give you
> truthful information about the purported closing
> of SL or the supposed moving of students from one
> middle school to another?

It is hardly a rumor. The administration and staff have made it clear that middle school GT centers are not long for this county. They will be gone within the next 2 years. Which students do you think will fill Hughes when they move out the Herndon GT kids? Of course they want all the South Lakes kids to all go through Hughes. With so few students moved in and out they can do one of those administrative moves without consulting a single parent.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Social services - I agree with the notion that
> volunteering to help children is a great thing.
> But it ought to be done in an encouraging way. I
> am not sure you are on the mark with your
> comments.
>
> I also concur that given the moral laxity that has
> come to prevail in our culture - particularly
> acute in some communities as manifested by
> careless out of wedlock births along with a
> general disregard for the welfare of children -
> that some kids come to school in very sad shape.
>
> But - and I say this in a positive way - because
> in Fairfax County I think most educators are both
> good and caring - it is a fallacy to think that
> the school should be the institution to address
> these problems, notwithstanding the flaws in
> social services systems (I find it interesting
> that you glossed over the biggest flaw - the lack
> of responsibility and virtue among parents or
> guardians). I can understand free lunch programs
> - kids won't study if they are hungry. And I can
> understand some degree of social work to work with
> the very worst of kids and put them in intensive
> programs away from the typical school experience.
> But if the schools place an undue focus on social
> work - a field that has long had at best only
> nominal success in terms of making their charges
> independent from all forms of addicting
> entitlements - they the school will end up hiring
> people that are strong on social work issues and
> low on academics - which is of course why middle
> class people are upset at the schools. It sounds
> cold and disheartening - but not really - schools
> should focus on education - and mostly only
> education - period. They ought to do well in what
> they are charged to do - and in turn - they will
> instill confidence in their communities and
> prosper. Put otherwise, if schools view
> themselves as the social safety net and babysitter
> of last resort - that is of course what they over
> time will become.

Another brilliant post. Would you please get in touch with me? Send me a private IM or send me and email or snail mail. Heck, you can send a carrier pigeon, or just drop by for dinner. There are a couple of things I would like speak with you about, Mr.McC.
Please, Please, Please. And Thank you.

rumor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> quantum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Social services - I agree with the notion that
> > volunteering to help children is a great thing.
>
> > But it ought to be done in an encouraging way.
> I
> > am not sure you are on the mark with your
> > comments.
> >
> > I also concur that given the moral laxity that
> has
> > come to prevail in our culture - particularly
> > acute in some communities as manifested by
> > careless out of wedlock births along with a
> > general disregard for the welfare of children -
> > that some kids come to school in very sad shape.
>
> >
> > But - and I say this in a positive way -
> because
> > in Fairfax County I think most educators are
> both
> > good and caring - it is a fallacy to think that
> > the school should be the institution to address
> > these problems, notwithstanding the flaws in
> > social services systems (I find it interesting
> > that you glossed over the biggest flaw - the
> lack
> > of responsibility and virtue among parents or
> > guardians). I can understand free lunch
> programs
> > - kids won't study if they are hungry. And I
> can
> > understand some degree of social work to work
> with
> > the very worst of kids and put them in
> intensive
> > programs away from the typical school
> experience.
> > But if the schools place an undue focus on
> social
> > work - a field that has long had at best only
> > nominal success in terms of making their
> charges
> > independent from all forms of addicting
> > entitlements - they the school will end up
> hiring
> > people that are strong on social work issues
> and
> > low on academics - which is of course why
> middle
> > class people are upset at the schools. It
> sounds
> > cold and disheartening - but not really -
> schools
> > should focus on education - and mostly only
> > education - period. They ought to do well in
> what
> > they are charged to do - and in turn - they
> will
> > instill confidence in their communities and
> > prosper. Put otherwise, if schools view
> > themselves as the social safety net and
> babysitter
> > of last resort - that is of course what they
> over
> > time will become.
>
>
> Quantum, I always appreciate your comments. They
> are well thought out and take into account many
> perspectives etc. I just came across a study that
> looks at how high achieving students are fairing
> under NCLB (basically saying lower achieving
> students are lessening the gap, but the higher
> achieving aren't increasing their scores to an
> equivalent degree). Here is the link if you (or
> anyone else) is interested:
> http://www.edexcellence.net/doc/20080618_high_achi
> evers.pdf

What better way to close the gap, keep the top kids from moving up, while bringing up the bottom students. It's a win-win for FCPS!

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So FCPS has 4000 extra hs seats, 2000 extra middle
> school seats and the SB is voting tonight to build
> a SoCo middle school by December 2011. And they
> don't know where it's going, how much its going to
> cost or which renovations for which existing
> schools are going to be delayed to shove the SoCo
> middle school into this slot.
>
> With result that excess capacity at the hs level,
> county wide, will increase to 4600 seats.
>
> All because apparently the SB members from that
> end of the County don't want to go through an RD
> process to move Laurel Hill (Lorton) kids into Mt.
> Vernon, Hayfield or Lake Braddock.
>
> What is wrong with these people?

Told you once, told you twice that this SB needs to go due to their decisions like the one above.

Where will the money come from and how many school will get screwed by this new MS.

This SB did not do what 5,000 people wanted them to do in western fairfax county, yet they do not have the balls to say NO to a few hundread in SOCO.

REMEMBER THESE DECISIONS IN 2011 SO WE CAN VOTE THESE BUMS OUT.

AMEN

VOTE THESE BUMS OUT Wrote:
> This SB did not do what 5,000 people wanted them
> to do in western fairfax county, yet they do not
> have the balls to say NO to a few hundread in
> SOCO.

Well, that doesn't quite make sense: logically there must be some OTHER agenda that causes them to want SoCo. Wonder what it could be...

All this talk of closing middle school centers and moving students around is just fear mongering at this point. The goal of a few people who have an agenda against FCPS, GT, LH, SL and lots of other initials is to stir this pot and get to be the first post on page 400 of this useless thread of babble.

To "Creating Strife"

Ask the parents whose children are being forced to move from high performing Thoreau to low performing Hughes why they are concerned. Sorry "Creating Strife" this is not just fear mongering.....this is serious concern.


creating strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this talk of closing middle school centers and
> moving students around is just fear mongering at
> this point. The goal of a few people who have an
> agenda against FCPS, GT, LH, SL and lots of other
> initials is to stir this pot and get to be the
> first post on page 400 of this useless thread of
> babble.

And what will you say when the Coppermine study is full swing? Will you say "oops, I guess they were right"? Or will you say, "goodie goodie, bring those folks from Fox Mill/Floris to Hughes"?

Seriously, are you in favor of the idea or not?


creating strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this talk of closing middle school centers and
> moving students around is just fear mongering at
> this point. The goal of a few people who have an
> agenda against FCPS, GT, LH, SL and lots of other
> initials is to stir this pot and get to be the
> first post on page 400 of this useless thread of
> babble.

After this RD, we thoguht we can wait several years to decide if we want to go to SL or not since our kids are still in Elementary. Now seems like SB doesn't want to give us time to think. If middle school changes, that will make our decision so easy. Move!

Go to hell, Stu.

edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To "Creating Strife"
>
> Ask the parents whose children are being forced to
> move from high performing Thoreau to low
> performing Hughes why they are concerned. Sorry
> "Creating Strife" this is not just fear
> mongering.....this is serious concern.
>
>
Sorry, Dame Edna. MI has the weakest arguments of anyone against an RD. Do you really think the rest of us want to keep paying for all the extra gas required to bus a few kids to Thoreau when Hughes is so much closer. Grow up.

If we are looking to save gas money on transportation, why the hell are we busing the Langley kids 14 miles to school when Herndon is 5 miles away???

Oh never mind. I know the answer. Because Strauss is a crook.

saving gas is the goal? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we are looking to save gas money on
> transportation, why the hell are we busing the
> Langley kids 14 miles to school when Herndon is 5
> miles away???
>
> Oh never mind. I know the answer. Because
> Strauss is a crook.

Well, duh. Didn't your mommy teach you that two wrongs don't make a right? You either are, or have, a whiny kid.

You have got to be kidding me!!!! 2 wrongs don't make a right??? So it's wrong that Langley gets bused 14 miles but too damn bad? The SB didn't have to make a "wrong" in the first place.

And for all you people who think this RD is going to solve SL's major problems - you are kidding yourselves. The kind of kids that are unfortunately going to get stuck going there are the ones that SL didn't "want" in the first place. I would love to see the look on Stu's face in 3 years when it's crystal clear that nobody's showing up to save his dismal test scores...

Adding Hughes to the mix for Floris and Fox Mill will make the exodus that much faster - honestly, it's like the SB released a poisonious gas on these communities and everyone is running for the exits.

If the SB send Floris/Fox Mill to Hughes, that'll be the last straw. Stu will be there explaining that just like SLHS, Floris/Fox Mill is aging after thriving for years.

"Seriously, are you in favor of the idea or not?"

I am not in favor of the idea, but I do realize it is just an idea in the heads of some people wanting to stir things up. It is just a ploy by some fear mongers to create strife in many of your lives.

I've already left Fox Mill because of this debacle - does anyone really think that the RD'd parents have no problem with going from a highly ranked, well respected school to a complete loser of a school that offers only IB and has scores in the toilet? That's what burns up so many parents - their choice was taken away, and don't start that BS that it's the Countys' schools and you should know you could be RD'd. It might have made sense if Langley/North Reston was RD'd, but you can't predict such an utterly senseless, blatantly political act was actually going to be approved. So, NO we couldn't have known the SB would pander so obviously to the rich folks that contribute to their skyrocketing popularity. (A bit of sarcasm).

To Grow Up

You want to discuss cost of busing. Well turn your attention to the cost of busing North Reston students to Langley when SL is much closer. How do you feel about paying for the cost of busing for Reston kids to go to Langley?








Grow Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> edna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To "Creating Strife"
> >
> > Ask the parents whose children are being forced
> to
> > move from high performing Thoreau to low
> > performing Hughes why they are concerned.
> Sorry
> > "Creating Strife" this is not just fear
> > mongering.....this is serious concern.
> >
> >
> Sorry, Dame Edna. MI has the weakest arguments of
> anyone against an RD. Do you really think the
> rest of us want to keep paying for all the extra
> gas required to bus a few kids to Thoreau when
> Hughes is so much closer. Grow up.

Really now...so what will you say when it happens....oops, I was wrong...I should have spoke up sooner.

BTW, are you one of the few Fox Mill ladies who favored the first RD....I hear at least some of those ladies are wetting their pants over this next one....they didnt see it coming. What a bunch of fools.




creating strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Seriously, are you in favor of the idea or not?"
>
> I am not in favor of the idea, but I do realize it
> is just an idea in the heads of some people
> wanting to stir things up. It is just a ploy by
> some fear mongers to create strife in many of your
> lives.

edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Grow Up
>
> You want to discuss cost of busing. Well turn
> your attention to the cost of busing North Reston
> students to Langley when SL is much closer. How
> do you feel about paying for the cost of busing
> for Reston kids to go to Langley?
>
>
Not good at all. It's misguided social engineering in reverse. Are you happy now?

Would I prefer to see North Reston students sent to SL before Floris/Fox Mill areas? Yes.

Does that mean continuing to send MI students to Thoreau makes sense, when Hughes is much, much closer? No.

Can't you grow up, move on, cut your losses, or at least wait for the CAPS suit to be decided so there's something new to discuss before you post the same bloody message for the 1000th time?

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-06-19-0235.html

Is this the school district that Neen keeps telling us is doing so well with their black students?

Just come on out and admit it - ya'll are a bunch of racists. Let's be honest about it now.

To Grow Up

I find your posting very disturbing. Apparently it is very disturbing to you to read the same bloody message for the 1000th time. Therefore, my recommendation to you is to not log on to this site. This simple strategy will ease your pain. Unlike many parents of children who are being forced to SL, Sunrise Valley and Hughes, their pain will not be eliminated by a simple click on the keyboard. They can't cut their losses.



Grow Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> edna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To Grow Up
> >
> > You want to discuss cost of busing. Well turn
> > your attention to the cost of busing North
> Reston
> > students to Langley when SL is much closer.
> How
> > do you feel about paying for the cost of busing
> > for Reston kids to go to Langley?
> >
> >
> Not good at all. It's misguided social
> engineering in reverse. Are you happy now?
>
> Would I prefer to see North Reston students sent
> to SL before Floris/Fox Mill areas? Yes.
>
> Does that mean continuing to send MI students to
> Thoreau makes sense, when Hughes is much, much
> closer? No.
>
> Can't you grow up, move on, cut your losses, or at
> least wait for the CAPS suit to be decided so
> there's something new to discuss before you post
> the same bloody message for the 1000th time?

DogsArePeopleToo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just come on out and admit it - ya'll are a bunch
> of racists. Let's be honest about it now.

Neen and Quantum (over whom Neen is getting as giddy as a schoolgirl these days) aren't racist. They just assume that any school that is less than 85% White/Asian is "demographically challenged."

Fairfax County Schools
Middle School Performance Report Card
2007
© 2008 FairfaxCAPS, Inc.

http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/images/MS_Performance_Rpt_2007.pdf

Looking at the middle schoolreportcard prepared by FairfaxCaps, Why would any family with children currently attending Rachel Carson possibly want to send their children to langston Hughes? If the rumors hold true, and Fox Mill ES and Floris East students who currently attend Floris ES and Carson are forced into Hughes this will result in the complete dismantling of what was once a great school pyramid.What's next, Dogwood ES?

Best to Close the Reston schools, and turn the building into the School admin building that the SB is contemplating spending $54,000,000 on.

Floris parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax County Schools
> Middle School Performance Report Card
> 2007
> © 2008 FairfaxCAPS, Inc.
>
> http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/images/MS_Performance_R
> pt_2007.pdf
>
> Looking at the middle schoolreportcard prepared by
> FairfaxCaps, Why would any family with children
> currently attending Rachel Carson possibly want to
> send their children to langston Hughes? If the
> rumors hold true, and Fox Mill ES and Floris East
> students who currently attend Floris ES and Carson
> are forced into Hughes this will result in the
> complete dismantling of what was once a great
> school pyramid.What's next, Dogwood ES?
>
> Best to Close the Reston schools, and turn the
> building into the School admin building that the
> SB is contemplating spending $54,000,000 on.


I was just now thinking that if promixity was one of the factors of the last RD, and if it holds true with another RD of middle schools, then it does not make sense for Carson to be taken away from Fox Mill since Carson is much closer to Fox Mill than Hughes would be to Fox Mill. What would happen to Carson if Fox Mill and part of Floris were RD to Hughes? Also I am thinking that if the GT center is removed from Hughes, what is in it for these high performing students if RD to Hughes from Fox Mill and Floris?

rumor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When they abolish
> > middle school centers next year, Hughes will
> need
> > bodies. It's easy to justify sending Fox Mill
> and
> > Floris with the justification that they need
> the
> > middle school IB program to do well at SL. I
> have
> > little doubt that the school board will feel
> > that's an easy move for them to make.
>
> Why do you say they will close middle school
> centers next year? Do you have a link to a
> document that asserts that? Luther Jackson just
> hired more GT center teachers to get their second
> year of GT on board, and all of the information I
> see describes levels 1-4, and clearly discusses
> middle school GT centers through 2011 (doesn't
> mean they won't exist after 2011, just that that
> was the current document). There is discussion
> about honors courses in those documents, but they
> clearly address that honors and center are two
> differing curriculum, and mention no plans of
> doing away with either.

I say that because Peter Noonan told the school board that there is no difference between middle school GT centers and middle school Honors programs. Several of the school board members are questioning why FCPS is spending so much money to bus kids to GT centers when (according to staff) the Honors program is the same.

FCPS appointed a task force to 'study' the issue and very much wanted to recommend abolishing middle school GT centers but too many parents showed up to object. Staff thinks Honors is just as good and have promoted that idea since they conceived the Honors program. Many parents now believe them, but parents from schools like Longfellow, Frost, and Kilmer, do not.

The current budget crunch is predicted to be worse next year. That will give staff, and the school board, the excuse that they need to abolish middle school GT centers now that they have the Honors program in place in every middle school. It won't hurt Hughes because Fox Mill and Floris students can be moved into Hughes. It won't hurt Jackson because so few Thoreau students are attending the center there. Longfellow is overcrowded.

If you say that middle school GT centers won't be abolished until 2011, I wouldn't disagree, except that the unexpected spike in gas prices makes it much easier to do it sooner. Jim Raney would do it this fall if he could. He shouldn't have any problem getting the votes to do it fall of 2009 since the budget next year will be worse than this year, AND, they have to invest $52 million in their new office building, plus another $5 million in renovations. Oh, and let's not forget South County's addition, or their new middle school. The budget just won't stretch far enough to provide GT middle schools,(or so they will claim) particularly since staff and the school board don't want them.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this isn't a rumor maybe there is something
> going on where herndon feeders like Aldrin want to
> distance themselves from involvement with the
> South lakes pyramid. Are Aldrin and Armstrong
> getting Horn's level iv? If those 2 had 50 at
> hughes GTc then it could be seen as replacing them
> with 50 or more from Aldrin as base school kids at
> Hughes that would stay at South Lakes across the
> parking lot from Hughes for high school.
>
> Hunters woods gets students who don't go to Hughes
> -Waples Mill, Crossfield, Navy.
>
> Did Floris and Fox Mill plus others use to go to
> hughes for GT center before carson opened?
>
> They benefit from one of the highest per pupil
> costs for non ESL or FRPM students in this county
> before adding on transportation.

Yes, Carson GT center split off from Hughes GT center.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this will inflame some, but Rachel Carson
> very likely is the single best public middle
> school (in terms of overall quality of students)
> in the Commonwealth. I can't imagine anyone being
> the least bit thrilled about being transferred
> from Carson to Hughes, especially in the absence
> of a GT center at Hughes. At some point these
> things can get quickly beyond logic to a high
> level of emotion, and I can't think of any other
> move that would enrage people so rapidly and so
> quickly. Carson is the only school in Fairfax
> County that I have come across has the same look
> and feel of the nationally excellent, locally
> accountable small district public middle and high
> school I attended in the Midwest. Others must
> certainly feel the same way.
>
> By the way, I have had four close relatives go
> through Hughes - I think some concerns are
> overblown, but even in the GT program, let's just
> say they had some experiences that were, ahem,
> hardly to be expected in suburbia (but all
> survived and are doing exceedingly well, I might
> add, and they laugh about it too today). But no
> doubt at some level the concerns people have about
> the place have validity, and query what is being
> done to improve the place. Interesting to see if
> someone could shed more light on what daily
> student life for the average student is at Hughes.

I agree that people in Fox Mill and Floris will object to being sent to Hughes. But so what? They also objected to being sent to South Lakes, for all the good it did them. Stu knows that he won't win any votes in those areas, he has no reason NOT to send them to Hughes. Staff can easily justify their move for the middle school IB program (not to say that program is anything, because it isn't) and because those schools already feed to South Lakes.

Have you seen this interesting chart?
http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/images/MS_Performance_Rpt_2007.pdf
Thoreau and Cooper do slightly better than Carson and neither has a GT center to bring up their scores. Herndon will do better when they get their GT students back. Hughes won't suffer their loss when Floris and Fox Mill students are moved to Hughes.

what is the alternative? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Explanation-
>
> I would much prefer to participate in a forum
> about schools that is critical of schools that are
> underperforming-like Hughes-than maintain a
> dishonest discussion about how great all of our
> schools are.
>
> Some of the scores at Hughes are positively an
> abomination. The sooner you take off the blinders
> and deal with the failures at that school, the
> better off those kids will be.

Why would our school board do something like that? It might make staff look bad.

moveout Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent question. Now all those (three or four)
> idiot mothers including whatsherface from the PTA
> can see that they've royally screwed up. I'm sure
> they don't want their precious babies going to
> Hughes and if that happens what will they say
> then????? I do live and Fox Mill and the prospect
> of Hughes will be having me put my house on the
> market sooner rather than later.

Which PTA moms have screwed up? And how did they screw up?

Baffled Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was just now thinking that if promixity was one
> of the factors of the last RD, and if it holds
> true with another RD of middle schools, then it
> does not make sense for Carson to be taken away
> from Fox Mill since Carson is much closer to Fox
> Mill than Hughes would be to Fox Mill. What would
> happen to Carson if Fox Mill and part of Floris
> were RD to Hughes? Also I am thinking that if the
> GT center is removed from Hughes, what is in it
> for these high performing students if RD to Hughes
> from Fox Mill and Floris?

It's not high performing students they care about. The excuse will be to align the pyramid, so that Floris and Fox Mill students can have the middle school IB program and then attend South Lakes. Also, staff loves their middle school Honors programs, in every middle school. Higher performing students can be in that program.

Hughes data Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correction-you stated that middle class kids do
> quite well at Hughes.....could you define "do
> well" for the group?
>
> 7th grade SOL results:
>
> 34% of Blacks failed Reading
> 30% of Hispanics failed Reading
> 70% of Blacks failed Math
> 69% of Hispanics failed Math
> 45% of Whites failed Math
>
> This school is in their 4th year of needs
> Improvement and has failed to make AYP in Math or
> English.
>
> Why would I want my kid to go to this school?

Indeed. Why would anyone? Those stats are shocking.

Between-the-Line Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DogsArePeopleToo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just come on out and admit it - ya'll are a
> bunch
> > of racists. Let's be honest about it now.
>
> Neen and Quantum (over whom Neen is getting as
> giddy as a schoolgirl these days) aren't racist.
> They just assume that any school that is less than
> 85% White/Asian is "demographically challenged."

Don't be silly, I've been giddy for Quantum for months. Didn't you notice that earlier? We've been quite the item for months.

Sheeze, try to keep up and stay better informed.

FCPS is going to 'study' grading policies. A report will be issued in the fall. Then Dale will decide what to do, if anything. One might think our school board would be involved in this decision, but apparently not.

http://fcps.edu/news/grading.htm

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rumor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > Why do you say they will close middle school
> > centers next year? Do you have a link to a
> > document that asserts that? Luther Jackson
> just
> > hired more GT center teachers to get their
> second
> > year of GT on board, and all of the information
> I
> > see describes levels 1-4, and clearly discusses
> > middle school GT centers through 2011 (doesn't
> > mean they won't exist after 2011, just that
> that
> > was the current document). There is discussion
> > about honors courses in those documents, but
> they
> > clearly address that honors and center are two
> > differing curriculum, and mention no plans of
> > doing away with either.
>
> I say that because Peter Noonan told the school
> board that there is no difference between middle
> school GT centers and middle school Honors
> programs. Several of the school board members are
> questioning why FCPS is spending so much money to
> bus kids to GT centers when (according to staff)
> the Honors program is the same.
>
> FCPS appointed a task force to 'study' the issue
> and very much wanted to recommend abolishing
> middle school GT centers but too many parents
> showed up to object. Staff thinks Honors is just
> as good and have promoted that idea since they
> conceived the Honors program. Many parents now
> believe them, but parents from schools like
> Longfellow, Frost, and Kilmer, do not.
>
> The current budget crunch is predicted to be worse
> next year. That will give staff, and the school
> board, the excuse that they need to abolish middle
> school GT centers now that they have the Honors
> program in place in every middle school. It won't
> hurt Hughes because Fox Mill and Floris students
> can be moved into Hughes. It won't hurt Jackson
> because so few Thoreau students are attending the
> center there. Longfellow is overcrowded.
>
> If you say that middle school GT centers won't be
> abolished until 2011, I wouldn't disagree, except
> that the unexpected spike in gas prices makes it
> much easier to do it sooner. Jim Raney would do
> it this fall if he could. He shouldn't have any
> problem getting the votes to do it fall of 2009
> since the budget next year will be worse than this
> year, AND, they have to invest $52 million in
> their new office building, plus another $5 million
> in renovations. Oh, and let's not forget South
> County's addition, or their new middle school.
> The budget just won't stretch far enough to
> provide GT middle schools,(or so they will claim)
> particularly since staff and the school board
> don't want them.

Thank you for your explanation and perspective. I can't believe they truly feel honors and GT Center are the "same" To get into an honors course in middle school one only needs to achieve a 500 on an SOL in that subject. Someone I know (a math guy) did an experiment with his department regarding the SOLs..he gave his staff a blank scantron and didn't give them the questions for the particular SOL test...so they randomly circled in answers..they guessed. The average score was just below passing, 384. He did an analysis and if they knew just 12 answers and guessed the rest they passed. A few more "known" and the rest guessed and they acheived 500..passed advanced.

The training for teachers to teach an honors course is a few days of inservice. Technically GT center teachers need the full GT endorsement ( a number of graduate level courses) but that tends to take place in ES GT centers only...a number of MS GT center teachers don't have the endorsement (though perhaps at Longfellow they do..but I know for a fact some of the GT centers in less wealthy districts basically place any teacher who is willingly to teach in the center, in it without the endorsement).

Clearly we need to do so much more in our ESs to beef up students' preparation for both MS and HS. That is the only way to increase participation in AP (or IB) courses. The math instruction in ES is only getting worse, not better. For some reason folks who create the curriculum find a program geared towards learning disabled kids (everyday math, and other manipulative programs) and then mandate it towards all kids...clearly a kid who has special needs in learning math might need some alternative approach to understand it, but not all students need that. The majority need the drills and need to memorize their multipication facts etc. I realize I have gone off tangent from the issue of GT centers, but in part is the same issue. Parents will willingly accpet honors courses if their kids qualify and not realize how short changed everyone is now.