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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 09:48PM

>>>>Someone please answer why ALDRIN is going to Herndon. It is a reston school and needs to feed into South Lakes. This is the can of worms no one wants to open. STU GIBSON promised (against FCPS guidelines) that aldrin will feed into Herndon. Herndon surely improved their numbers and now does't want Aldrin to go. South Lakes is left hurting and now is looking South-West to fix its problems selectively chosing communities (ie declining McNair but grabbing Floris). And then they turn around and call these affected communities racist. Give me a break. It is always about South Lakes community. Who cares how many other communities they step on<<<

Why is it illegal for Stu Gibson to promise an area of constituents something? Can he be arrested for that? Under what law?

Politicians promise of lots of things. Sometimes they keep their promises, often they don't. >shrugs>

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HUh? ()
Date: February 23, 2008 09:50PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fox Mill district voted against Stu by almost a
> 2:1 margin, 1083 to 590, in an election where
> almost all the other districts supported him by
> 2:1. Along with Fryin Pan, they were the only
> districts that gave Stu less than 40% of the vote.
> Most gave him 65% to 75%
>
> https://www.voterinfo.sbe.virginia.gov/election/da
> ta/2007/196e44fa-8b19-4240-9a44-737216daa55d/unoff
> icial/00_p_059_6ECC7EA8-15A8-415D-B502-4CF70D4A10F
> 1.shtml
>
> At this time, it was clear that Stu was in favor
> of redistricting Fox Mill into South Lakes. If
> the majority was in favor of redistricting, why
> did they turn out to vote for his opponent in such
> numbers?


I am a (yellow dog) democrat, I live in FM and I voted for Stu. I always thought he'd done a good job. I've seen him talk and he always impressed me as a stand-up kind of guy. I thought he would do the right thing in the redistricting and I am supremely disappointed (unless his message changes in the next few days.) He will NOT GET MY VOTE AGAIN--and I know numerous dems ywho also voted for him in November and also regret it. I know 4 years is a long time to hold a grudge, but I will work hard to get him out of office in 3 years and 9 months. I suspect the 300 IB families at SL will continue to support him...but I think he has lost support from everybody else. In most elections incumbents have the advantage...I don't think he will have the advantage the next time around. (Because if he can do this to FM and FL (and other neighborhoods), he do it to any community in this area.)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 09:59PM

whatEverHappenedToRecall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope the recall of Gibson goes through and
> people dont let that fall off once this RD is
> done. He is too crazy to be serving on the SB.
> Scary to have that kind of a guy having so much
> power. I think county residents made a huge
> mistake in the 1990s when they removed the
> oversight of the board of supervisors from SB.
> Checks and balances are what make democracy work,
> and in ffx county SB there are no checks and
> balances.

Of course there are checks. Stu Gibson serves only by the will of the people who elected them. The voters wanted him. They elected him again last November after knowing him for 12 years. They must like what he does for them on the school board.

Voters get the government they vote for, as it should be.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Huh? ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:06PM

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Lastly, I vehemently dispute your statistics. I
> believe that it is more like 75% to 25% in favor
> of redistricting."
>
> To give you an idea: contrary to Ms. Castro's
> online petition that turned out to be mostly from
> SL area, Floris sent a petition with close to 600
> real signitures, which were collected in just two
> nights. What is the percentage of houses within
> Floris with kids? You can figure out by yourself.
>
>
> An interesting note is how Ms. Castro's petition
> and how Ms. Ackerman's survey was conducted and
> presented. Can you see the difference?
>
> SL needs students, but where is Langley or
> Madison, which boarders 2/3 of SL's boundary and
> is only half the distance from Floris to SL? BTW,
> the transportation savings for Langley would be
> more dramatic.


When I saw that Ms. Castro's petition included the name of a FM 5th grader, who I knew never agreed to have his name on the petition, I knew her entire list must be suspect. (I spoke to this student's parents recently, who are both anti RD, and they told me their son was shocked that his name was on some on-line list. He has no idea how it got there.

FM's PTA president is a neighbor. She is a good, ethical person, but she has made a mistake. I think it was her passion for the issue (splitting FM under option 2) that caused her to shift from her neutral stance (via her PTA hat). It is also unfortunate that she revealed only part of her now infamous survey results (I received the survey and she knows I'm against RD, so I'm confident her list of 100 was not cherry picked). Obviously, if she shared the results about people's thoughts about not splitting FM, then she needed to share the results from the questions on our desires to send our children to SL or O.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: neighborly thing to do ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:09PM

as a neighbor - why not ask her to post the full results here?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: It's a girl thing ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:14PM

Huh? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Lastly, I vehemently dispute your statistics.
> I
> > believe that it is more like 75% to 25% in
> favor
> > of redistricting."
> >
> > To give you an idea: contrary to Ms. Castro's
> > online petition that turned out to be mostly
> from
> > SL area, Floris sent a petition with close to
> 600
> > real signitures, which were collected in just
> two
> > nights. What is the percentage of houses within
> > Floris with kids? You can figure out by
> yourself.
> >
> >
> > An interesting note is how Ms. Castro's
> petition
> > and how Ms. Ackerman's survey was conducted and
> > presented. Can you see the difference?
> >
> > SL needs students, but where is Langley or
> > Madison, which boarders 2/3 of SL's boundary
> and
> > is only half the distance from Floris to SL?
> BTW,
> > the transportation savings for Langley would be
> > more dramatic.
>
>
> When I saw that Ms. Castro's petition included the
> name of a FM 5th grader, who I knew never agreed
> to have his name on the petition, I knew her
> entire list must be suspect. (I spoke to this
> student's parents recently, who are both anti RD,
> and they told me their son was shocked that his
> name was on some on-line list. He has no idea how
> it got there.
>
> FM's PTA president is a neighbor. She is a good,
> ethical person, but she has made a mistake. I
> think it was her passion for the issue (splitting
> FM under option 2) that caused her to shift from
> her neutral stance (via her PTA hat). It is also
> unfortunate that she revealed only part of her now
> infamous survey results (I received the survey and
> she knows I'm against RD, so I'm confident her
> list of 100 was not cherry picked). Obviously, if
> she shared the results about people's thoughts
> about not splitting FM, then she needed to share
> the results from the questions on our desires to
> send our children to SL or O.


There are about 15 families in FM who support the RD. (There is a good handful whp originally were open to RD, but have closed that door now.) While a small handful have children who are approaching HS age, there is a (relatively) larger contigent of parents of 3rd grade girls who support the RD. At this point they are more focused on "not splitting up the girls" than their childrens' academic needs in 5 years.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:18PM

HUh? Wrote:


> I am a (yellow dog) democrat, I live in FM and I
> voted for Stu. I always thought he'd done a good
> job. I've seen him talk and he always impressed
> me as a stand-up kind of guy. I thought he would
> do the right thing in the redistricting and I am
> supremely disappointed (unless his message changes
> in the next few days.) He will NOT GET MY VOTE
> AGAIN--and I know numerous dems ywho also voted
> for him in November and also regret it. I know 4
> years is a long time to hold a grudge, but I will
> work hard to get him out of office in 3 years and
> 9 months. I suspect the 300 IB families at SL
> will continue to support him...but I think he has
> lost support from everybody else. In most
> elections incumbents have the advantage...I don't
> think he will have the advantage the next time
> around. (Because if he can do this to FM and FL
> (and other neighborhoods), he do it to any
> community in this area.)

What did you expect Stu to do differently in this redistricting? Why didn't you expect that your neighborhood would be sent to South Lakes?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:20PM

>>>there is a (relatively) larger contigent of parents of 3rd grade girls who support the RD. At this point they are more focused on "not splitting up the girls" than their childrens' academic needs in 5 years.<<<

Wow. That's so sad. Why do parents think that girl's social concerns are more important than their academic needs? Why is their 'pack' more important than their schooling?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: result ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:21PM

(Pool of 76 Confirmed, FME Attendance Area Responses sent to FME PTA and copied to FairfaxCAPS)

1. Would you be okay with your children going to Oakton High School? (Yes or No)
Yes: 76 or 100%
No: 0 or 0%
No Answer: 0 or 0%

2. Would you be okay with your children going to South Lakes High School (Yes or No)
Yes: 6 or 7.89%
No: 70 or 92.11%
No Answer: 0 or 0%

3. Would you be okay with half of the Fox Mill ES students going to South Lakes and half of the Fox Mill ES students going to Oakton? (Yes or No)
Yes: 5 or 6.58%
No: 69 or 90.79%
No Answer: 2 or 2.63%

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Huh? ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:30PM

neighborly thing to do Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as a neighbor - why not ask her to post the full
> results here?


Many of us have...and we keep hoping she will do it. (Or perhaps the FM Principal, who let her explanatory letter go out in school-sanctioned Tuesday Packets, will request that she do so.)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Huh? ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:35PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HUh? Wrote:
>
>
> > I am a (yellow dog) democrat, I live in FM and
> I
> > voted for Stu. I always thought he'd done a
> good
> > job. I've seen him talk and he always
> impressed
> > me as a stand-up kind of guy. I thought he
> would
> > do the right thing in the redistricting and I
> am
> > supremely disappointed (unless his message
> changes
> > in the next few days.) He will NOT GET MY VOTE
> > AGAIN--and I know numerous dems ywho also voted
> > for him in November and also regret it. I know
> 4
> > years is a long time to hold a grudge, but I
> will
> > work hard to get him out of office in 3 years
> and
> > 9 months. I suspect the 300 IB families at SL
> > will continue to support him...but I think he
> has
> > lost support from everybody else. In most
> > elections incumbents have the advantage...I
> don't
> > think he will have the advantage the next time
> > around. (Because if he can do this to FM and
> FL
> > (and other neighborhoods), he do it to any
> > community in this area.)
>
> What did you expect Stu to do differently in this
> redistricting? Why didn't you expect that your
> neighborhood would be sent to South Lakes?


I just thought he would do the right thing--when push came to shove. I didn't understand the politics, the IB situation, a lot of things. Please don't make me feel any worse. I've kicked myself many time in the past few months. (Also, I was unimpressed with his opponent...a woman who was known for her lack of involvement in her son's school and PTA. But that was probably just rumors started by the SLPTA.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HuH? ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:40PM

result Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (Pool of 76 Confirmed, FME Attendance Area
> Responses sent to FME PTA and copied to
> FairfaxCAPS)
>
> 1. Would you be okay with your children going to
> Oakton High School? (Yes or No)
> Yes: 76 or 100%
> No: 0 or 0%
> No Answer: 0 or 0%
>
> 2. Would you be okay with your children going to
> South Lakes High School (Yes or No)
> Yes: 6 or 7.89%
> No: 70 or 92.11%
> No Answer: 0 or 0%
>
> 3. Would you be okay with half of the Fox Mill ES
> students going to South Lakes and half of the Fox
> Mill ES students going to Oakton? (Yes or No)
> Yes: 5 or 6.58%
> No: 69 or 90.79%
> No Answer: 2 or 2.63%


I didn't send my results of the PTA president's survey when Caps requested it--and I was one of the original 100. So, my info is not included. Just for the record:
1. Yes to Oakton
2. No to SL (unless it was going to go AP)
3. No to splittng.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:44PM

>>>I just thought he would do the right thing--when push came to shove. I didn't understand the politics, the IB situation, a lot of things. Please don't make me feel any worse. I've kicked myself many time in the past few months. (Also, I was unimpressed with his opponent...a woman who was known for her lack of involvement in her son's school and PTA. But that was probably just rumors started by the SLPTA.<<<

I am NOT trying to make you feel bad! But I am wondering what you thought Stu would do regarding the redistricting? What would have been the right thing or him to do?

I know that his opponent is VERY involved with her son's education and his school. She volunteers at the school and tutors kids there who need extra help, kids who are having reading problems. She actually cares about kids on the bottom and wants to get them the right programs to help them learn to read and do math. I have no idea if she is active in PTA or not. Is that the only way to help out at a school? Personally, I would rather someone give their time to help kids than just show up at PTA meetings and bake cookies for bake sales. I haven't seen PTAs do much for helping kids, but they are supportive of teachers, and many women seem to enjoy the meetings, and their politics. >shrugs> To each his own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2008 10:45PM by Neen.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:49PM

Huh said:
>>>I didn't send my results of the PTA president's survey when Caps requested it--and I was one of the original 100. So, my info is not included. Just for the record:
1. Yes to Oakton
2. No to SL (unless it was going to go AP)
3. No to splittng.<<<

I am curious. If Stu and the South Lakes PTSA tells you this week that they will have meetings with the redistricted communities to begin a discussion of AP vs IB, would you believe them? Would you believe Stu if he votes for this redistricting on Thursday, but promises to be open to converting South Lakes to an AP school?

Would other redistricted folks here believe Stu? Or would you assume that he's saying that just so people won't flee to private schools or pupil place back into Oakton?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Huh? ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:50PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>I just thought he would do the right
> thing--when push came to shove. I didn't
> understand the politics, the IB situation, a lot
> of things. Please don't make me feel any worse.
> I've kicked myself many time in the past few
> months. (Also, I was unimpressed with his
> opponent...a woman who was known for her lack of
> involvement in her son's school and PTA. But that
> was probably just rumors started by the SLPTA.<<<
>
> I am NOT trying to make you feel bad! But I am
> wondering what you thought Stu would do regarding
> the redistricting? What would have been the right
> thing or him to do?
>
> I know that his opponent is VERY involved with her
> son's education and his school. She volunteers at
> the school and tutors kids there who need extra
> help, kids who are having reading problems. She
> actually cares about kids on the bottom and wants
> to get them the right programs to help them learn
> to read and do math. I have no idea if she is
> active in PTA or not. Is that the only way to
> help out at a school? Personally, I would rather
> someone give their time to help kids than just
> show up at PTA meetings and bake cookies for bake
> sales. I haven't seen PTAs do much for helping
> kids, but they are supportive of teachers, and
> many women seem to enjoy the meetings, and their
> politics. >shrugs> To each his own.


I had heard she (Stu's opponent) "never steps into the school." Looking back, I heard this from HunterMill parents, folks I got to know when we banded together to fight Cathy Hudgins on the Reston Park and Ride.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 10:54PM

Ask at Hunters Woods how much his opponent is at the school. The answer would be at LEAST once a day, usually more frequently. Ask Dogwood parents too.

Don't tell me, let me guess, democrats, Stu supporters, told you that she was never at the school.

What do you think Stu should have done about the redistricting? What would have been the right thing to do, when 'push came to shove'?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 23, 2008 11:29PM

Does anyone else have a problem with this?

>>>some people on the school board decided it would be better for members to meet one-on-one with each other in private rather than in a larger group open to the public to discuss any remaining concerns.
"The work session was always optional," said School Board president Dan Storck (Mount Vernon).
Virginia's Freedom of Information Act prohibits the school board members from holding private meetings or phone calls of more than two people to discuss policy issues, so discussing the boundary changes one-on-one — particularly among a group of 12 members — could be more difficult and time consuming than if the board held an open meeting.
"I will probably make about 20 different phone calls about the boundary change this weekend," said School Board president Dan Storck (Mount Vernon.)
Some community members who have been following the boundary process closely said they thought the school board was purposefully shutting the public out by canceling the work session. They said the private meetings were indicative of the whole redistricting process, during which they suspect deals were made behind closed doors.<<<
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=93875&paper=62&cat=104

Why can't they do this in public, rather than making their deals behind the scenes?

They still don't get it, do they? Sheese. Twenty phone calls! What the heck kind of deals are they making this weekend? The final version of the redistricting could look like anything!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 23, 2008 11:56PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone else have a problem with this?
>
> >>>some people on the school board decided it
> would be better for members to meet one-on-one
> with each other in private rather than in a larger
> group open to the public to discuss any remaining
> concerns.
> "The work session was always optional," said
> School Board president Dan Storck (Mount Vernon).
> Virginia's Freedom of Information Act prohibits
> the school board members from holding private
> meetings or phone calls of more than two people to
> discuss policy issues, so discussing the boundary
> changes one-on-one

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: No ()
Date: February 24, 2008 12:00AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huh said:
> >>>I didn't send my results of the PTA president's
> survey when Caps requested it--and I was one of
> the original 100. So, my info is not included.
> Just for the record:
> 1. Yes to Oakton
> 2. No to SL (unless it was going to go AP)
> 3. No to splittng.<<<
>
> I am curious. If Stu and the South Lakes PTSA
> tells you this week that they will have meetings
> with the redistricted communities to begin a
> discussion of AP vs IB, would you believe them?
> Would you believe Stu if he votes for this
> redistricting on Thursday, but promises to be open
> to converting South Lakes to an AP school?
>
> Would other redistricted folks here believe Stu?
> Or would you assume that he's saying that just so
> people won't flee to private schools or pupil
> place back into Oakton?

The answer is ONE BIG FAT NO! If you are from FLORIS, you do not believe anything this jerk has to say.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: imabulldog ()
Date: February 24, 2008 12:10AM

No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Huh said:
> > >>>I didn't send my results of the PTA
> president's
> > survey when Caps requested it--and I was one of
> > the original 100. So, my info is not included.
> > Just for the record:
> > 1. Yes to Oakton
> > 2. No to SL (unless it was going to go AP)
> > 3. No to splittng.<<<
> >
> > I am curious. If Stu and the South Lakes PTSA
> > tells you this week that they will have
> meetings
> > with the redistricted communities to begin a
> > discussion of AP vs IB, would you believe them?
>
> > Would you believe Stu if he votes for this
> > redistricting on Thursday, but promises to be
> open
> > to converting South Lakes to an AP school?
> >
> > Would other redistricted folks here believe Stu?
>
> > Or would you assume that he's saying that just
> so
> > people won't flee to private schools or pupil
> > place back into Oakton?
>
> The answer is ONE BIG FAT NO! If you are from
> FLORIS, you do not believe anything this jerk has
> to say.


True that. I went to Floris, and now I'm a sophomore at Westfield. Half of my friends were redistricted [to McNair... in the middle of the school year, too.] when we were in ELEMENTARY school. I hated it then, and I'll hate it if they do it again. I can pretty much tell you all that all of the kids from Floris/Carson/Westfield do NOT trust the county AT ALL. If they go through with this redistricting, they're seriously going to be looking at some trouble not only from the community, but from the students they keep screwing over.

Any of you hear about the students and public transportation policy for next year? My AP world teacher received an e-mail about it, and I think it is so ridiculous. Is it even valid/going to happen?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Not a Girl Thing ()
Date: February 24, 2008 08:53AM

It's a girl thing Wrote:
> There are about 15 families in FM who support the
> RD. (There is a good handful whp originally were
> open to RD, but have closed that door now.) While
> a small handful have children who are approaching
> HS age, there is a (relatively) larger contigent
> of parents of 3rd grade girls who support the RD.
> At this point they are more focused on "not
> splitting up the girls" than their childrens'
> academic needs in 5 years.

That’s ridiculous. The parents of these girls are among the most intelligent, well-educated, and independent thinking in the Fox Mill Elementary School community. Perhaps that is why they are not so fearful of change. They want to keep their whole community together and they have confidence that their children will do well and be prepared for college in whatever Fairfax County high school they attend. Whether you agree with them or disagree with them on the redistricting, it is definitely not a “girl thing.”

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Re: Oakton High School May Close
Posted by: Newshound ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:12AM

Does anyone have a copy of the budget worksheet that shows the cost impact of closing Oakton HS? The theme is that attempts over the years to bring Oakton operating costs in line with other schools have not worked and it is now one of the most expensive properties to operate on a per pupil basis. There's some astronomical number assigned to the value of the building and land if sold which makes the option cost effective. It did mention that even though there was space at other high schools to move all Oakton students that the parents would object (understatement). Realistically this would have to be proposed by "staff" as no one in their right mind would put their name on it.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Island Guy ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:15AM

Not a Girl Thing- I agree with you. It is not a girl thing.

Parents wanting to keep their children together is a normal thing. We understand how they feel. We would like very much for our 12 rising 9th graders to maintain the relationships they have established.

This is definitely not a fear thing and it absolutely not a girl thing. It is a human thing.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Bull ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:44AM

Island Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not a Girl Thing- I agree with you. It is not a
> girl thing.
>
> Parents wanting to keep their children together is
> a normal thing. We understand how they feel. We
> would like very much for our 12 rising 9th graders
> to maintain the relationships they have
> established.
>
> This is definitely not a fear thing and it
> absolutely not a girl thing. It is a human thing.

This is bull. This is parents over controlling their kids to the extent that they have to hand pick their friends, who the other kids in the class are, their teachers, their courses, their coaches, the list goes on.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: It's a girl thing ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:50AM

Not a Girl Thing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a girl thing Wrote:
> > There are about 15 families in FM who support
> the
> > RD. (There is a good handful whp originally
> were
> > open to RD, but have closed that door now.)
> While
> > a small handful have children who are
> approaching
> > HS age, there is a (relatively) larger
> contigent
> > of parents of 3rd grade girls who support the
> RD.
> > At this point they are more focused on "not
> > splitting up the girls" than their childrens'
> > academic needs in 5 years.
>
> That’s ridiculous. The parents of these girls are
> among the most intelligent, well-educated, and
> independent thinking in the Fox Mill Elementary
> School community. Perhaps that is why they are
> not so fearful of change. They want to keep their
> whole community together and they have confidence
> that their children will do well and be prepared
> for college in whatever Fairfax County high school
> they attend. Whether you agree with them or
> disagree with them on the redistricting, it is
> definitely not a “girl thing.”


At least 2 of the moms of these third grade girls have forwarded emails during the reboundary that said that whatever we do "let's keep the kids together." I just think it's an interesting observation that a huge chunk of the tiny minority of pro RD families in FM are parents of third grade girls. I agree these are nice, bright, well-educated people, but that doesn't change the fact that they're "voting" as a small block--and it's difficult to not question their motivation. It's hard to be thinking IB versus AP when your kids at 8 years old...unfortunately, their voices (including 2 who spoke at the hearing on the 19th...and at first were the only FM voices in the midst of a sea of Chantilly Highlands) may affect children who are headed to HS in the very near future.

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Re: Oakton High School May Close
Posted by: simple brilliance ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:52AM

Newshound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone have a copy of the budget worksheet
> that shows the cost impact of closing Oakton HS?

Excellent - there have been some bizarre suggestions so far but this is really out-there and it has a dark genius

Close down popular, high performing schools to backfill lower performing schools? That'll fix some of the ranking issues!! As soon as you pass a threshold on the national rankings - bingo!

If selling a school because its on a convenient piece of land is great idea - why not adopt it across the board - ship all students from the eastern county to DC and from the western county to Loudon - it could be very cost effective and would fix DC schools plus save teachers having to live in expensive fairfax (we could build accommodation across the county line). Then sell all of the land to speculators

Brilliant!!

Then resell the median strips along the county roads for the development of long, skinny condos (or short, narrow, very tall condos). Lots of the county parks are along convenient streams - we could sell them on for use by the chemical industry or for new power plants.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: without representation ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:57AM

Island Guy Wrote:
- We
> would like very much for our 12 rising 9th graders
> to maintain the relationships they have
> established.
>

Surely you're not suggesting that the Madison North community should have any say in what happens to it are you?

Have you asked Herndon's permission or Janes? That's sedition.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:58AM

1st of all, Lets Congratulate the Westfield Bulldogs on defeating the Chantilly Chargers last night to win the Concorde Distric Championship!

As we are approaching the end of this long and emotionally draining RD process, I am sure that most of us, regardless of what the outcome is, will be happy to bring closure to this process.

We all have different perspectives on how this process has been conducted, as well as opinions on whether or not this RD study is even necessary.

I personally believe that the correct decision for the SB, will be to maintain the Status Quo, and move on to the bigger issues that are impacting our schools and students.

South Lakes has enjoyed all of the benifits of a smaller student body for the last 10 years or so. I really believe that if the the SL supporters are truly concerned about helping the disadvantaged students (many vocal SL Parents and supporters of this RD have claimed to be the voice of those who have not or cannot speak for themselves), they should understand that these students are much better served in smaller class sizes with teachers who are focused on bringing the student scores up.

I also believe that being financially disadvantaged does not automatically equate to being a poor student, but this seems to be the message that is spouted by many of the more vocal SL suppoerters of this RD. When you continually use the FRM and ESOL numbers as a reason for this RD, it implies that you feel that FRM and ESOL automatically equate to poor students. It is apparent that this view is help by many, when you automatically want to reject McNair ES from being a part of SL, because of the Title I staus, and the fact the McNair ES has a pretty high number of ESOL and FRM students.

No one from SL has really been able to quantify exactly how the importation of several hundred new students will enhance the educational opportunities for the '"disadvantaged" students in South Lakes. Will bringing in more students improve the Financial situation of these "disadvantaged" students? Will bringing in more students help the ESOL student learn the English languauge any better or quicker? Do you think that bringing in more bright children with higher test scores is automatically going to improve the intelligence and test scores of those students who are struggling with academic studies? After seeing hundreds of parents and students from the Fox Mill and Floris communities, do you really think that you will have better sports teams with our children? After hearing from hundreds of families who are completely against this RD, do you really think that the parents and students are suddenly going to be actively involved in PTA, booster clubs for the sports teams etc.?

I find it interesting, that the overwhelming majority of the proponents of the RD are are either people who do not even have children in school anymore, or families who are not even in the South Lakes district. I tend to want to question the real motives from these folks. The parents who are not in SL district can always place into SL via pupil placement process, and those without children in school must be siing this as an opportunity to improve the value of their homes?

There has been so much discussion regarding the diversity of South Lakes,and how this RD is going to provide a better opportunity for the disadvantaged students, and yet we hear very little input or feedback from any of the parents of these students. It has been said that many of these parents are to busy working or attending to their families to get involved in the public discussions, but I find this excuse very offensive.I would expect that almost all of the parents and students who made time to speak up and attend the many public meetings also have jobs, responsibilities with family, home work etc. The fact is, that if something is important to you, you will make the time to let your voice be heard.

The majority of the most vocal proponents from South Lakes and this RD seem to be those parents and students who are involved in and enjoy the IB program, as well as those students who want better athletic programs. I get the feeling that small percentage of the parents in South Lakes are pushing this RD, not to help the "disadvantaged" students, but for their own personal adgenda.

As long as Reston is perceived as a "different" kind of Homeowners Association (some would say a socialist type mentality), and as long as South Lakes continues to offer an Academic Curriculum that is perceived as "different" from the mainstream AP Curriculum, your school is always going to be underenrolled. Families with children are going to gravitate towards homes and neighborhoods that have lower HOA Fees, less Rules and Regs, and into communities that offer a more mainstream Academic Curriculum. No matter who is forced into South lakes via RD, South Lakes is never going to enjoy the reputationand popularity of the other schools in the west, because it is different. For the very same reasons that new families moving to Fairfax County have avoided South Lakes, and choose to purchase or rent in neighborhhods that feed to 'perceived" better schools, that people that are forced into South Lakes will eventually opt out as well.

Do you not find it interesting that parents and students alike would rather attend a school that is farther away from home, and where the classrooms are in trailers, instead of going to South Lakes? These are for the most part, very intelligent people, who have done much research before deciding where to send their children to school. If people truly felt that South Lakes offered a comparable educational opportunity, they would already be there via Pupil Placement.


Forced change is never a long term solution for a school, regardless of what the SB decides, I expect that the actual numbers of students, as well as the overall reputation of South Lakes will actually go down rather than up. Enrollment may rise for 3 or 4 years, until the economy comes back to the point where homes can be sold, and people can move to other areas outside of the SL boundaries.

I think the reputation of South Lakes will suffer, because of the flight out of the school by these new students who are being forced into South Lakes. New people who are contemplating a move to FFX County, will notice the high mobility rates in South Lakes, and this will lead to questions of why. In addition, we live in the internet age, and with all of the information regarding South Lakes that has been generated in the Papers, blogs, emails and other forms of media, what do you think will happen when in the future, when folks decide to do a Google Search of Reston and South Lakes as part of their discovery process prior to moving? What kinds of information will pop up, and what impression will it give prospective families who are planning to move to Western fairfax County? If I were not from this area, and read that 1000's of families were protesting a move to South lakes, I would rule it out, even before researching why. Why would I take a chance, when there are perceived "better" schools in the area?

I belive that the only long term prospects for maintaining South Lakes is for it to become an acadamy based magnet of some type, whether it is IB, TJ West etc. Reston does not have enough core housing to support a school size of 2000, according to thos of you who state aging in place, lack of affordable housing, to many condo' and TH's etc. If there are not enough students to populate South lakes, use the building for something else. There will be excess space available at other schools in the area for the current student body to be placed.

This relocation and distribution of South Lakes Students to other schools in the area should not be a big deal, since you all find it OK for other neighborhoods to be displaced from our current schools.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fm/c/o parent ()
Date: February 24, 2008 10:23AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask at Hunters Woods how much his opponent is at
> the school. The answer would be at LEAST once a
> day, usually more frequently. Ask Dogwood parents
> too.
>
> Don't tell me, let me guess, democrats, Stu
> supporters, told you that she was never at the
> school.
>
> What do you think Stu should have done about the
> redistricting? What would have been the right
> thing to do, when 'push came to shove'?

I voted for Christine, although I had also heard that she wasn't involved at her son's school. The person who told me (and there was only one) is a Hunters Woods parent, and her kids will go to SL. I think that anyone on track for SL probably thought that Stu was their man, and while I don't think they intentionally lied about Christine's level of involvement, it certainly suited their agenda
to discredit her.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 24, 2008 10:36AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone else have a problem with this?
>
> >>>some people on the school board decided it
> would be better for members to meet one-on-one
> with each other in private rather than in a larger
> group open to the public to discuss any remaining
> concerns.
> "The work session was always optional," said
> School Board president Dan Storck (Mount Vernon).
> Virginia's Freedom of Information Act prohibits
> the school board members from holding private
> meetings or phone calls of more than two people to
> discuss policy issues, so discussing the boundary
> changes one-on-one — particularly among a group of
> 12 members — could be more difficult and time
> consuming than if the board held an open meeting.
> "I will probably make about 20 different phone
> calls about the boundary change this weekend,"
> said School Board president Dan Storck (Mount
> Vernon.)
> Some community members who have been following the
> boundary process closely said they thought the
> school board was purposefully shutting the public
> out by canceling the work session. They said the
> private meetings were indicative of the whole
> redistricting process, during which they suspect
> deals were made behind closed doors.<<<
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=93875&paper=62&cat=104
>
> Why can't they do this in public, rather than
> making their deals behind the scenes?
>
> They still don't get it, do they? Sheese. Twenty
> phone calls! What the heck kind of deals are they
> making this weekend? The final version of the
> redistricting could look like anything!


This makes perfect sense.

Remember in last work session (before they came up with 2 new options), some uncomfortable questions were asked by board members,

1) How will the redistricted child benefit - 1/2 min of silence.

2) If all kids redistricted to SL opt out for AP what will happen - juggling words around, finally saying they will be allowed to pupil place.

so on and so forth.

They do not want these kind of public questions. Also it will be dreadful for them to see another option come up and another set of public hearings.

Everyone realizes that this is a very unpopular agenda that Stu is pushing. The question is whether they will go with him just like their past history or vote from their heart.

I must say, the main issue that complicates this decision is forcing AP kids to an IB school which is historical to say the least.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Huh? ()
Date: February 24, 2008 10:38AM

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ask at Hunters Woods how much his opponent is
> at
> > the school. The answer would be at LEAST once
> a
> > day, usually more frequently. Ask Dogwood
> parents
> > too.
> >
> > Don't tell me, let me guess, democrats, Stu
> > supporters, told you that she was never at the
> > school.
> >
> > What do you think Stu should have done about
> the
> > redistricting? What would have been the right
> > thing to do, when 'push came to shove'?
>
> I voted for Christine, although I had also heard
> that she wasn't involved at her son's school. The
> person who told me (and there was only one) is a
> Hunters Woods parent, and her kids will go to SL.
> I think that anyone on track for SL probably
> thought that Stu was their man, and while I don't
> think they intentionally lied about Christine's
> level of involvement, it certainly suited their
> agenda
> to discredit her.


I think you're right. I don't think the folks I know from HunterWoods intentionally and deviously tried to sway me to vote for Stu...but clearly it did suit their agenda for Stu to win the election.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 24, 2008 10:55AM

No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Huh said:
> > >>>I didn't send my results of the PTA
> president's
> > survey when Caps requested it--and I was one of
> > the original 100. So, my info is not included.
> > Just for the record:
> > 1. Yes to Oakton
> > 2. No to SL (unless it was going to go AP)
> > 3. No to splittng.<<<
> >
> > I am curious. If Stu and the South Lakes PTSA
> > tells you this week that they will have
> meetings
> > with the redistricted communities to begin a
> > discussion of AP vs IB, would you believe them?
>
> > Would you believe Stu if he votes for this
> > redistricting on Thursday, but promises to be
> open
> > to converting South Lakes to an AP school?
> >
> > Would other redistricted folks here believe Stu?
>
> > Or would you assume that he's saying that just
> so
> > people won't flee to private schools or pupil
> > place back into Oakton?
>
> The answer is ONE BIG FAT NO! If you are from
> FLORIS, you do not believe anything this jerk has
> to say.


Ditto.

Lets face it. Stu is in bed with SL PTSA. Someone said in a post yesterday they need to increase the number of IB diplomas they award each year else IB program is in Jeopardy. If he introduces AP courses in SL, do you think a)more b)less students will go for IB diploma.

It is crystal clear what they are trying to do at SL and adding AP courses will be detrimental to their goal.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: toss your coins now ()
Date: February 24, 2008 02:06PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:


> They do not want these kind of public questions.
> Also it will be dreadful for them to see another
> option come up and another set of public
> hearings.
>
> Everyone realizes that this is a very unpopular
> agenda that Stu is pushing. The question is
> whether they will go with him just like their past
> history or vote from their heart.
>

of course they'll vote with him

"You must understand how hard I negotiated behind the scenes over the final few days - i can assure you it could have been far worse - but I got the best achievable deal. I can't tell you what they were planning but it was far worse and you would have hated it"

Basically, by not standing up earlier, they've boxed themselves into a corner - I don't believe any of then have the courage to make a stand now - especially those who threw their people people off the cliff on Day 1.

The SB have neutered themselves. They've withdrawn to their back-room dealing in the hope of obscuring the process and being able to blame each other. Its just like suddenly discovering that the town-hall meetings weren't really public meetings after all.

My guess is that the political calculus goes:

"if we back down now, we'll have shown too much weakness and we'll never be able to get anything major through again until the next election cycle"

but I think they're wrong - it should be

"the public clearly said that they didn't agree with it and on deeper inspection the drivers weren't as strong as we were led to believe - so we've decided to stick with the status quo but we'll have a study to reexamine how studies should be handled in the future"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: No Winners ()
Date: February 24, 2008 06:43PM

No matter what the outcome there are no winners in this. Our community has been damaged by this. I feel for the parents that worry for their children if this goes through, their children will be uprooted and their lives will be disrupted. These parents have given months to research and have been left dissolutioned.

South Lakes parents that support the RD have given up a great deal to see it happen.

I have to believe everyone involved had what they believe to be the best interest of their children at heart.

The SB is in yet another difficult boundary process. Those that have been involved in others will continue to deny the need to change other than in that 30 minute post mortum meeting. During this session they will each provide concise sound bites for reporters. The procedural failures will continue until someone sues and prevails or at least humiliates. This is the American way. The next time you hear someone bitch about Trial lawyers remember how the school board has conducted itself. If there was no risk of embarassment or expense only these egomaniacs would prevail. So you see there are no winners. Or as they say there is only one winner the lawyer.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Conspiracy theorist ()
Date: February 24, 2008 07:18PM

I think you all are giving the SLHS PTA way too much credit - that they have so much power to conspire and effect such a change basically on its own or maybe together with just one of the 12 SB board members. If true, its President maybe should run for President of the US.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Moderator. ()
Date: February 24, 2008 07:47PM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1st of all, Lets Congratulate the Westfield
> Bulldogs on defeating the Chantilly Chargers last
> night to win the Concorde Distric Championship!
>
> As we are approaching the end of this long and
> emotionally draining RD process, I am sure that
> most of us, regardless of what the outcome is,
> will be happy to bring closure to this process.
>
> We all have different perspectives on how this
> process has been conducted, as well as opinions on
> whether or not this RD study is even necessary.
>
> I personally believe that the correct decision for
> the SB, will be to maintain the Status Quo, and
> move on to the bigger issues that are impacting
> our schools and students.
>
> South Lakes has enjoyed all of the benifits of a
> smaller student body for the last 10 years or so.
> I really believe that if the the SL supporters are
> truly concerned about helping the disadvantaged
> students (many vocal SL Parents and supporters of
> this RD have claimed to be the voice of those who
> have not or cannot speak for themselves), they
> should understand that these students are much
> better served in smaller class sizes with teachers
> who are focused on bringing the student scores up.
>
>
> I also believe that being financially
> disadvantaged does not automatically equate to
> being a poor student, but this seems to be the
> message that is spouted by many of the more vocal
> SL suppoerters of this RD. When you continually
> use the FRM and ESOL numbers as a reason for this
> RD, it implies that you feel that FRM and ESOL
> automatically equate to poor students. It is
> apparent that this view is help by many, when you
> automatically want to reject McNair ES from being
> a part of SL, because of the Title I staus, and
> the fact the McNair ES has a pretty high number of
> ESOL and FRM students.
>
> No one from SL has really been able to quantify
> exactly how the importation of several hundred new
> students will enhance the educational
> opportunities for the '"disadvantaged" students in
> South Lakes. Will bringing in more students
> improve the Financial situation of these
> "disadvantaged" students? Will bringing in more
> students help the ESOL student learn the English
> languauge any better or quicker? Do you think that
> bringing in more bright children with higher test
> scores is automatically going to improve the
> intelligence and test scores of those students who
> are struggling with academic studies? After seeing
> hundreds of parents and students from the Fox Mill
> and Floris communities, do you really think that
> you will have better sports teams with our
> children? After hearing from hundreds of families
> who are completely against this RD, do you really
> think that the parents and students are suddenly
> going to be actively involved in PTA, booster
> clubs for the sports teams etc.?
>
> I find it interesting, that the overwhelming
> majority of the proponents of the RD are are
> either people who do not even have children in
> school anymore, or families who are not even in
> the South Lakes district. I tend to want to
> question the real motives from these folks. The
> parents who are not in SL district can always
> place into SL via pupil placement process, and
> those without children in school must be siing
> this as an opportunity to improve the value of
> their homes?
>
> There has been so much discussion regarding the
> diversity of South Lakes,and how this RD is going
> to provide a better opportunity for the
> disadvantaged students, and yet we hear very
> little input or feedback from any of the parents
> of these students. It has been said that many of
> these parents are to busy working or attending to
> their families to get involved in the public
> discussions, but I find this excuse very
> offensive.I would expect that almost all of the
> parents and students who made time to speak up and
> attend the many public meetings also have jobs,
> responsibilities with family, home work etc. The
> fact is, that if something is important to you,
> you will make the time to let your voice be
> heard.
>
> The majority of the most vocal proponents from
> South Lakes and this RD seem to be those parents
> and students who are involved in and enjoy the IB
> program, as well as those students who want better
> athletic programs. I get the feeling that small
> percentage of the parents in South Lakes are
> pushing this RD, not to help the "disadvantaged"
> students, but for their own personal adgenda.
>
> As long as Reston is perceived as a "different"
> kind of Homeowners Association (some would say a
> socialist type mentality), and as long as South
> Lakes continues to offer an Academic Curriculum
> that is perceived as "different" from the
> mainstream AP Curriculum, your school is always
> going to be underenrolled. Families with children
> are going to gravitate towards homes and
> neighborhoods that have lower HOA Fees, less Rules
> and Regs, and into communities that offer a more
> mainstream Academic Curriculum. No matter who is
> forced into South lakes via RD, South Lakes is
> never going to enjoy the reputationand popularity
> of the other schools in the west, because it is
> different. For the very same reasons that new
> families moving to Fairfax County have avoided
> South Lakes, and choose to purchase or rent in
> neighborhhods that feed to 'perceived" better
> schools, that people that are forced into South
> Lakes will eventually opt out as well.
>
> Do you not find it interesting that parents and
> students alike would rather attend a school that
> is farther away from home, and where the
> classrooms are in trailers, instead of going to
> South Lakes? These are for the most part, very
> intelligent people, who have done much research
> before deciding where to send their children to
> school. If people truly felt that South Lakes
> offered a comparable educational opportunity, they
> would already be there via Pupil Placement.
>
>
> Forced change is never a long term solution for a
> school, regardless of what the SB decides, I
> expect that the actual numbers of students, as
> well as the overall reputation of South Lakes will
> actually go down rather than up. Enrollment may
> rise for 3 or 4 years, until the economy comes
> back to the point where homes can be sold, and
> people can move to other areas outside of the SL
> boundaries.
>
> I think the reputation of South Lakes will suffer,
> because of the flight out of the school by these
> new students who are being forced into South
> Lakes. New people who are contemplating a move to
> FFX County, will notice the high mobility rates in
> South Lakes, and this will lead to questions of
> why. In addition, we live in the internet age, and
> with all of the information regarding South Lakes
> that has been generated in the Papers, blogs,
> emails and other forms of media, what do you think
> will happen when in the future, when folks decide
> to do a Google Search of Reston and South Lakes as
> part of their discovery process prior to moving?
> What kinds of information will pop up, and what
> impression will it give prospective families who
> are planning to move to Western fairfax County? If
> I were not from this area, and read that 1000's of
> families were protesting a move to South lakes, I
> would rule it out, even before researching why.
> Why would I take a chance, when there are
> perceived "better" schools in the area?
>
> I belive that the only long term prospects for
> maintaining South Lakes is for it to become an
> acadamy based magnet of some type, whether it is
> IB, TJ West etc. Reston does not have enough core
> housing to support a school size of 2000,
> according to thos of you who state aging in place,
> lack of affordable housing, to many condo' and
> TH's etc. If there are not enough students to
> populate South lakes, use the building for
> something else. There will be excess space
> available at other schools in the area for the
> current student body to be placed.
>
> This relocation and distribution of South Lakes
> Students to other schools in the area should not
> be a big deal, since you all find it OK for other
> neighborhoods to be displaced from our current
> schools.


Well thought out!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 24, 2008 08:17PM

Conspiracy theorist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you all are giving the SLHS PTA way too
> much credit - that they have so much power to
> conspire and effect such a change basically on its
> own or maybe together with just one of the 12 SB
> board members. If true, its President maybe
> should run for President of the US.


Please give us a break.

There is only one board member who proposes the redistricting agenda in his district (ok, may be one more as in Kathy Smith in this case). The remaining just listen till time comes to vote.

Why is it so difficult to understand that Stu Gibson worked hand in hand with SL PTSA in drawing the boundaries. How many times in the last year has Stu visited Fox Mill or Floris PTA? It is a well known fact that Stu Gibson caters to Reston/South Lakes needs.

There is no conspiracy here. It is a well known fact.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 24, 2008 08:49PM

It's a girl thing Wrote:
-
> > That’s ridiculous. The parents of these girls
> are
> > among the most intelligent, well-educated, and
> > independent thinking in the Fox Mill Elementary
> > School community. Perhaps that is why they are
> > not so fearful of change. They want to keep
> their
> > whole community together and they have
> confidence
> > that their children will do well and be
> prepared
> > for college in whatever Fairfax County high
> school
> > they attend. Whether you agree with them or
> > disagree with them on the redistricting, it is
> > definitely not a “girl thing.”
>
>
> At least 2 of the moms of these third grade girls
> have forwarded emails during the reboundary that
> said that whatever we do "let's keep the kids
> together." I just think it's an interesting
> observation that a huge chunk of the tiny minority
> of pro RD families in FM are parents of third
> grade girls. I agree these are nice, bright,
> well-educated people, but that doesn't change the
> fact that they're "voting" as a small block--and
> it's difficult to not question their motivation.
> It's hard to be thinking IB versus AP when your
> kids at 8 years old...unfortunately, their voices
> (including 2 who spoke at the hearing on the
> 19th...and at first were the only FM voices in the
> midst of a sea of Chantilly Highlands) may affect
> children who are headed to HS in the very near
> future.

A similar phenomenon occurs with girls and GT centers and TJ. Girls have been, historically, less likely to place in GT centers unless their group of girlfriends is also going to attend. Either they all go to the GT center, or they all remain at the base school. The most common reason for a child to turn down placement at TJ is because non of their girlfriends are attending. It seems that girls are much more concerned about where their pack is traveling. Or parents of girls allow them to base decisions based on their packs. Both TJ and GT centers have historically been dominated by boys because fewer girls accept placement after they have been admitted. It's just a fact that more boys accept placement into GT centers and into TJ than do girls. FCPS staff is concerned about it.

I am not saying that this has anything to do with the current redistricting issue because I don't know, but it's not illogical to assume that parents of 3rd grade girls would be concerned about their social group remaining together since that seems to be major issue for girls in other academic situations.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Oakton High School May Close
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 24, 2008 08:57PM

Newshound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone have a copy of the budget worksheet
> that shows the cost impact of closing Oakton HS?
> The theme is that attempts over the years to bring
> Oakton operating costs in line with other schools
> have not worked and it is now one of the most
> expensive properties to operate on a per pupil
> basis. There's some astronomical number assigned
> to the value of the building and land if sold
> which makes the option cost effective. It did
> mention that even though there was space at other
> high schools to move all Oakton students that the
> parents would object (understatement).
> Realistically this would have to be proposed by
> "staff" as no one in their right mind would put
> their name on it.

Surely Marshall high school, so close to Tyson's Corner, and with so few students, is far more expensive to operate than Oakton. Like South Lakes, Marshall gets extra funding for being so small and even more funding for being an IB school.

I would love to see how much the county spends, per pupil, at each of the high schools, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Dark Blue has never been flattering on me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 24, 2008 08:59PM

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
There is only one board member who proposes the
> redistricting agenda in his district (ok, may be
> one more as in Kathy Smith in this case). The
> remaining just listen till time comes to vote.
>
> Why is it so difficult to understand that Stu
> Gibson worked hand in hand with SL PTSA in drawing
> the boundaries. How many times in the last year
> has Stu visited Fox Mill or Floris PTA? It is a
> well known fact that Stu Gibson caters to
> Reston/South Lakes needs.
>
> There is no conspiracy here. It is a well known
> fact.

Exactly! Of course Stu is going to work closely with South Lakes PTSA, they have the same goal, getting more students into South Lakes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:27PM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1st of all, Lets Congratulate the Westfield
> Bulldogs on defeating the Chantilly Chargers last
> night to win the Concorde Distric Championship!
>
> As we are approaching the end of this long and
> emotionally draining RD process, I am sure that
> most of us, regardless of what the outcome is,
> will be happy to bring closure to this process.
>
> We all have different perspectives on how this
> process has been conducted, as well as opinions on
> whether or not this RD study is even necessary.
>
> I personally believe that the correct decision for
> the SB, will be to maintain the Status Quo, and
> move on to the bigger issues that are impacting
> our schools and students.
>
> South Lakes has enjoyed all of the benifits of a
> smaller student body for the last 10 years or so.
> I really believe that if the the SL supporters are
> truly concerned about helping the disadvantaged
> students (many vocal SL Parents and supporters of
> this RD have claimed to be the voice of those who
> have not or cannot speak for themselves), they
> should understand that these students are much
> better served in smaller class sizes with teachers
> who are focused on bringing the student scores up.
>
>
> I also believe that being financially
> disadvantaged does not automatically equate to
> being a poor student, but this seems to be the
> message that is spouted by many of the more vocal
> SL suppoerters of this RD. When you continually
> use the FRM and ESOL numbers as a reason for this
> RD, it implies that you feel that FRM and ESOL
> automatically equate to poor students. It is
> apparent that this view is help by many, when you
> automatically want to reject McNair ES from being
> a part of SL, because of the Title I staus, and
> the fact the McNair ES has a pretty high number of
> ESOL and FRM students.
>
> No one from SL has really been able to quantify
> exactly how the importation of several hundred new
> students will enhance the educational
> opportunities for the '"disadvantaged" students in
> South Lakes. Will bringing in more students
> improve the Financial situation of these
> "disadvantaged" students? Will bringing in more
> students help the ESOL student learn the English
> languauge any better or quicker? Do you think that
> bringing in more bright children with higher test
> scores is automatically going to improve the
> intelligence and test scores of those students who
> are struggling with academic studies? After seeing
> hundreds of parents and students from the Fox Mill
> and Floris communities, do you really think that
> you will have better sports teams with our
> children? After hearing from hundreds of families
> who are completely against this RD, do you really
> think that the parents and students are suddenly
> going to be actively involved in PTA, booster
> clubs for the sports teams etc.?
>
> I find it interesting, that the overwhelming
> majority of the proponents of the RD are are
> either people who do not even have children in
> school anymore, or families who are not even in
> the South Lakes district. I tend to want to
> question the real motives from these folks. The
> parents who are not in SL district can always
> place into SL via pupil placement process, and
> those without children in school must be siing
> this as an opportunity to improve the value of
> their homes?
>
> There has been so much discussion regarding the
> diversity of South Lakes,and how this RD is going
> to provide a better opportunity for the
> disadvantaged students, and yet we hear very
> little input or feedback from any of the parents
> of these students. It has been said that many of
> these parents are to busy working or attending to
> their families to get involved in the public
> discussions, but I find this excuse very
> offensive.I would expect that almost all of the
> parents and students who made time to speak up and
> attend the many public meetings also have jobs,
> responsibilities with family, home work etc. The
> fact is, that if something is important to you,
> you will make the time to let your voice be
> heard.
>
> The majority of the most vocal proponents from
> South Lakes and this RD seem to be those parents
> and students who are involved in and enjoy the IB
> program, as well as those students who want better
> athletic programs. I get the feeling that small
> percentage of the parents in South Lakes are
> pushing this RD, not to help the "disadvantaged"
> students, but for their own personal adgenda.
>
> As long as Reston is perceived as a "different"
> kind of Homeowners Association (some would say a
> socialist type mentality), and as long as South
> Lakes continues to offer an Academic Curriculum
> that is perceived as "different" from the
> mainstream AP Curriculum, your school is always
> going to be underenrolled. Families with children
> are going to gravitate towards homes and
> neighborhoods that have lower HOA Fees, less Rules
> and Regs, and into communities that offer a more
> mainstream Academic Curriculum. No matter who is
> forced into South lakes via RD, South Lakes is
> never going to enjoy the reputationand popularity
> of the other schools in the west, because it is
> different. For the very same reasons that new
> families moving to Fairfax County have avoided
> South Lakes, and choose to purchase or rent in
> neighborhhods that feed to 'perceived" better
> schools, that people that are forced into South
> Lakes will eventually opt out as well.
>
> Do you not find it interesting that parents and
> students alike would rather attend a school that
> is farther away from home, and where the
> classrooms are in trailers, instead of going to
> South Lakes? These are for the most part, very
> intelligent people, who have done much research
> before deciding where to send their children to
> school. If people truly felt that South Lakes
> offered a comparable educational opportunity, they
> would already be there via Pupil Placement.
>
>
> Forced change is never a long term solution for a
> school, regardless of what the SB decides, I
> expect that the actual numbers of students, as
> well as the overall reputation of South Lakes will
> actually go down rather than up. Enrollment may
> rise for 3 or 4 years, until the economy comes
> back to the point where homes can be sold, and
> people can move to other areas outside of the SL
> boundaries.
>
> I think the reputation of South Lakes will suffer,
> because of the flight out of the school by these
> new students who are being forced into South
> Lakes. New people who are contemplating a move to
> FFX County, will notice the high mobility rates in
> South Lakes, and this will lead to questions of
> why. In addition, we live in the internet age, and
> with all of the information regarding South Lakes
> that has been generated in the Papers, blogs,
> emails and other forms of media, what do you think
> will happen when in the future, when folks decide
> to do a Google Search of Reston and South Lakes as
> part of their discovery process prior to moving?
> What kinds of information will pop up, and what
> impression will it give prospective families who
> are planning to move to Western fairfax County? If
> I were not from this area, and read that 1000's of
> families were protesting a move to South lakes, I
> would rule it out, even before researching why.
> Why would I take a chance, when there are
> perceived "better" schools in the area?
>
> I belive that the only long term prospects for
> maintaining South Lakes is for it to become an
> acadamy based magnet of some type, whether it is
> IB, TJ West etc. Reston does not have enough core
> housing to support a school size of 2000,
> according to thos of you who state aging in place,
> lack of affordable housing, to many condo' and
> TH's etc. If there are not enough students to
> populate South lakes, use the building for
> something else. There will be excess space
> available at other schools in the area for the
> current student body to be placed.
>
Wow! wow! Wow! That was an awesome post, so many thoughtful points. Please send it to our school board members. Please.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exactly ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:42PM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1st of all, Lets Congratulate the Westfield
> Bulldogs on defeating the Chantilly Chargers last
> night to win the Concorde Distric Championship!
>
> As we are approaching the end of this long and
> emotionally draining RD process, I am sure that
> most of us, regardless of what the outcome is,
> will be happy to bring closure to this process.
>
> We all have different perspectives on how this
> process has been conducted, as well as opinions on
> whether or not this RD study is even necessary.
>
> I personally believe that the correct decision for
> the SB, will be to maintain the Status Quo, and
> move on to the bigger issues that are impacting
> our schools and students.
>
> South Lakes has enjoyed all of the benifits of a
> smaller student body for the last 10 years or so.
> I really believe that if the the SL supporters are
> truly concerned about helping the disadvantaged
> students (many vocal SL Parents and supporters of
> this RD have claimed to be the voice of those who
> have not or cannot speak for themselves), they
> should understand that these students are much
> better served in smaller class sizes with teachers
> who are focused on bringing the student scores up.
>
>
> I also believe that being financially
> disadvantaged does not automatically equate to
> being a poor student, but this seems to be the
> message that is spouted by many of the more vocal
> SL suppoerters of this RD. When you continually
> use the FRM and ESOL numbers as a reason for this
> RD, it implies that you feel that FRM and ESOL
> automatically equate to poor students. It is
> apparent that this view is help by many, when you
> automatically want to reject McNair ES from being
> a part of SL, because of the Title I staus, and
> the fact the McNair ES has a pretty high number of
> ESOL and FRM students.
>
> No one from SL has really been able to quantify
> exactly how the importation of several hundred new
> students will enhance the educational
> opportunities for the '"disadvantaged" students in
> South Lakes. Will bringing in more students
> improve the Financial situation of these
> "disadvantaged" students? Will bringing in more
> students help the ESOL student learn the English
> languauge any better or quicker? Do you think that
> bringing in more bright children with higher test
> scores is automatically going to improve the
> intelligence and test scores of those students who
> are struggling with academic studies? After seeing
> hundreds of parents and students from the Fox Mill
> and Floris communities, do you really think that
> you will have better sports teams with our
> children? After hearing from hundreds of families
> who are completely against this RD, do you really
> think that the parents and students are suddenly
> going to be actively involved in PTA, booster
> clubs for the sports teams etc.?
>
> I find it interesting, that the overwhelming
> majority of the proponents of the RD are are
> either people who do not even have children in
> school anymore, or families who are not even in
> the South Lakes district. I tend to want to
> question the real motives from these folks. The
> parents who are not in SL district can always
> place into SL via pupil placement process, and
> those without children in school must be siing
> this as an opportunity to improve the value of
> their homes?
>
> There has been so much discussion regarding the
> diversity of South Lakes,and how this RD is going
> to provide a better opportunity for the
> disadvantaged students, and yet we hear very
> little input or feedback from any of the parents
> of these students. It has been said that many of
> these parents are to busy working or attending to
> their families to get involved in the public
> discussions, but I find this excuse very
> offensive.I would expect that almost all of the
> parents and students who made time to speak up and
> attend the many public meetings also have jobs,
> responsibilities with family, home work etc. The
> fact is, that if something is important to you,
> you will make the time to let your voice be
> heard.
>
> The majority of the most vocal proponents from
> South Lakes and this RD seem to be those parents
> and students who are involved in and enjoy the IB
> program, as well as those students who want better
> athletic programs. I get the feeling that small
> percentage of the parents in South Lakes are
> pushing this RD, not to help the "disadvantaged"
> students, but for their own personal adgenda.
>
> As long as Reston is perceived as a "different"
> kind of Homeowners Association (some would say a
> socialist type mentality), and as long as South
> Lakes continues to offer an Academic Curriculum
> that is perceived as "different" from the
> mainstream AP Curriculum, your school is always
> going to be underenrolled. Families with children
> are going to gravitate towards homes and
> neighborhoods that have lower HOA Fees, less Rules
> and Regs, and into communities that offer a more
> mainstream Academic Curriculum. No matter who is
> forced into South lakes via RD, South Lakes is
> never going to enjoy the reputationand popularity
> of the other schools in the west, because it is
> different. For the very same reasons that new
> families moving to Fairfax County have avoided
> South Lakes, and choose to purchase or rent in
> neighborhhods that feed to 'perceived" better
> schools, that people that are forced into South
> Lakes will eventually opt out as well.
>
> Do you not find it interesting that parents and
> students alike would rather attend a school that
> is farther away from home, and where the
> classrooms are in trailers, instead of going to
> South Lakes? These are for the most part, very
> intelligent people, who have done much research
> before deciding where to send their children to
> school. If people truly felt that South Lakes
> offered a comparable educational opportunity, they
> would already be there via Pupil Placement.
>
>
> Forced change is never a long term solution for a
> school, regardless of what the SB decides, I
> expect that the actual numbers of students, as
> well as the overall reputation of South Lakes will
> actually go down rather than up. Enrollment may
> rise for 3 or 4 years, until the economy comes
> back to the point where homes can be sold, and
> people can move to other areas outside of the SL
> boundaries.
>
> I think the reputation of South Lakes will suffer,
> because of the flight out of the school by these
> new students who are being forced into South
> Lakes. New people who are contemplating a move to
> FFX County, will notice the high mobility rates in
> South Lakes, and this will lead to questions of
> why. In addition, we live in the internet age, and
> with all of the information regarding South Lakes
> that has been generated in the Papers, blogs,
> emails and other forms of media, what do you think
> will happen when in the future, when folks decide
> to do a Google Search of Reston and South Lakes as
> part of their discovery process prior to moving?
> What kinds of information will pop up, and what
> impression will it give prospective families who
> are planning to move to Western fairfax County? If
> I were not from this area, and read that 1000's of
> families were protesting a move to South lakes, I
> would rule it out, even before researching why.
> Why would I take a chance, when there are
> perceived "better" schools in the area?
>
> I belive that the only long term prospects for
> maintaining South Lakes is for it to become an
> acadamy based magnet of some type, whether it is
> IB, TJ West etc. Reston does not have enough core
> housing to support a school size of 2000,
> according to thos of you who state aging in place,
> lack of affordable housing, to many condo' and
> TH's etc. If there are not enough students to
> populate South lakes, use the building for
> something else. There will be excess space
> available at other schools in the area for the
> current student body to be placed.
>
> This relocation and distribution of South Lakes
> Students to other schools in the area should not
> be a big deal, since you all find it OK for other
> neighborhoods to be displaced from our current
> schools.

One of the best posts of this thread. Very thoughtful. Grasped current situations accurately.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:44PM

>>>This makes perfect sense.

Remember in last work session (before they came up with 2 new options), some uncomfortable questions were asked by board members,

1) How will the redistricted child benefit - 1/2 min of silence.

2) If all kids redistricted to SL opt out for AP what will happen - juggling words around, finally saying they will be allowed to pupil place.

so on and so forth.

They do not want these kind of public questions. Also it will be dreadful for them to see another option come up and another set of public hearings.

Everyone realizes that this is a very unpopular agenda that Stu is pushing. The question is whether they will go with him just like their past history or vote from their heart.

I must say, the main issue that complicates this decision is forcing AP kids to an IB school which is historical to say the least.<<<

True. They don't want a bunch of uncomfortable questions in public. Also, Stu would very much like all School board members to vote with him on this redistricting. But first they must find a plan that they all can agree on. I suspect that is what is happening this weekend and early this week.

On Thursday, someone on the board, other than Stu, will propose the final scenario that Stu and Kathy have agreed upon. They will then each give their little speech about why they support redistricting for South Lakes, with Stu's speech being the most passionate. All will support that proposal, with the exception of Tina Hone and possibly Jim Raney. My best guess they will have choosen the original staff/South Lakes proposal #5, which I think is now proposal #1, MINUS Navy. Floris and Fox Mill will go to South Lakes. (New projections will be that Chantilly isn't really over crowded after all and they erred in saying that the population needed to be reduced. Or they will say the budget constraints prevent moving anyone out of Chantilly. Or whatever excuse du jour they need.)

Any other guesses? Your guess is certainly as good as mine.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Oakton High School May Close
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:47PM

simple brilliance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Newshound Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Does anyone have a copy of the budget worksheet
> > that shows the cost impact of closing Oakton HS?
>
>
> Excellent - there have been some bizarre
> suggestions so far but this is really out-there
> and it has a dark genius
>
> Close down popular, high performing schools to
> backfill lower performing schools? That'll fix
> some of the ranking issues!! As soon as you pass a
> threshold on the national rankings - bingo!
>
> If selling a school because its on a convenient
> piece of land is great idea - why not adopt it
> across the board - ship all students from the
> eastern county to DC and from the western county
> to Loudon - it could be very cost effective and
> would fix DC schools plus save teachers having to
> live in expensive fairfax (we could build
> accommodation across the county line). Then sell
> all of the land to speculators
>
> Brilliant!!
>
Are you suggesting that our school board is filled with brilliant people? Surely you jest. If they were that smart, we wouldn't be in this current mess.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 24, 2008 09:49PM

Conspiracy theorist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you all are giving the SLHS PTA way too
> much credit - that they have so much power to
> conspire and effect such a change basically on its
> own or maybe together with just one of the 12 SB
> board members. If true, its President maybe
> should run for President of the US.

That's all the influence that they need. Only one school board member decides what happens to South Lakes. Other school board members don't mess around in his district. It's Stu's district, he decides what happens in it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SB voter ()
Date: February 24, 2008 10:48PM

Good point. Guess most other school members must be in cohoots too. If this one SB member and one PTA has so much influence, must be that every one else must not be so very smart either - guess everyone against is mad, but it's not like anyone else on SB is so very much against either

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP @ SL ()
Date: February 24, 2008 10:54PM

So all you FME/Floris/etc folks - what if the curriculum was changed at SL to an AP curriculum, and what if you could keep the community together, then what? Would you agree for your kids to go to SL?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: BLAH ()
Date: February 24, 2008 11:16PM

Nurse Neen
Attachments:
untitled.bmp

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:32AM

No Winners Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No matter what the outcome there are no winners in
> this. Our community has been damaged by this. I
> feel for the parents that worry for their children
> if this goes through, their children will be
> uprooted and their lives will be disrupted. These
> parents have given months to research and have
> been left dissolutioned.
>
> South Lakes parents that support the RD have given
> up a great deal to see it happen.
>
> I have to believe everyone involved had what they
> believe to be the best interest of their children
> at heart.
>
> The SB is in yet another difficult boundary
> process. Those that have been involved in others
> will continue to deny the need to change other
> than in that 30 minute post mortum meeting. During
> this session they will each provide concise sound
> bites for reporters. The procedural failures will
> continue until someone sues and prevails or at
> least humiliates. This is the American way. The
> next time you hear someone bitch about Trial
> lawyers remember how the school board has
> conducted itself. If there was no risk of
> embarassment or expense only these egomaniacs
> would prevail. So you see there are no winners.
> Or as they say there is only one winner the
> lawyer.

I agree that there are no winners here, but I disagree that they will continue to do it this way. This process has been so terrible, I don't believe that our school board would put themselves through it again. Surely they've learned something from this nightmare, surely it's been embarrassing enough, and painful enough, that they won't repeat it. I cannot imagine that any other school board member would volunteer for this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:34AM

AP @ SL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So all you FME/Floris/etc folks - what if the
> curriculum was changed at SL to an AP curriculum,
> and what if you could keep the community together,
> then what? Would you agree for your kids to go to
> SL?

Who would make that promise to do that? And who would believe them?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ParentOf4 ()
Date: February 25, 2008 06:27AM

Floris Parent, I whole heartedly agree with you. Thank you for expressing your thoughts and opinions! The process has been tainted and now the situation is less than optimal. It is time for the School Board, and South Lakes to reconsider their approach and listen to the overwhelming public opinion. If the SB were to read some of the arguments on the Underground, they would benefit from some very lucid thoughts. If my children were forced to go to SL, they would always feel that it is not their home. You want a high school that you can feel pride in being a part of, not one that you were forced into, and where you know you really weren't welcome for who you are, and are just a warm band-aid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 25, 2008 06:38AM

AP @ SL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So all you FME/Floris/etc folks - what if the
> curriculum was changed at SL to an AP curriculum,
> and what if you could keep the community together,
> then what? Would you agree for your kids to go to
> SL?

------------
Are you advocating reducing the size of Oakton without replacement? Why mess up the one "right-sized" school in the whole equation?

And a question I have asked repeatedly with no response: for those of you DO who love IB: If South Lakes reverts to AP as the above poster proposed, what would YOU prefer?
1) Add an Academy IB Diploma Programme (five periods per day, junior and senior year) at South Lakes.
2) No Academy at South Lakes; go along with the shift to AP.
3) Pupil place to Robinson or Marshall.
4) Other?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 25, 2008 06:57AM

To Floris Parent, thanks for your recent post. Very thoughtful written post. Like Neen said, please let the SB know. As my "name" stands, I have been baffled by the whole RD process not that I was confused, but more puzzled because I did not see how the RD will really help both sides--the SL community and those opposed being forced to go to SL. It is a shame because it is more logical to develop a "magent" like program to attract students to SL and I still don't understand why SL is so opposed to that approach.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Its not all Stu ()
Date: February 25, 2008 07:02AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Only one
> school board member decides what happens to South
> Lakes. Other school board members don't mess
> around in his district. It's Stu's district, he
> decides what happens in it.


But most of Madison North is NOT in Stu's district - its in Janie's

So why hasn't she stood up for the clearly articulated needs of her constituents in 'the island'?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Jay M ()
Date: February 25, 2008 07:12AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR2008022402191.html

"We were being cheated" says Chad King, a Mount Vernon High graduate who got no college credit for IB.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FACTS ()
Date: February 25, 2008 07:35AM

THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BOARD NEEDS TO GO NOW.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE RECALL OR ANY LAWSUITS AGAINST THEM?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 25, 2008 08:07AM

Jay M Wrote:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2008/02/24/AR2008022402191.html
>
-----------------
It appears Jay Mathews of the Post finally "gets it":

"Students usually can't get college credit for one-year IB courses, even though they are similar to one-year Advanced Placement courses, which are eligible for credit. In another complication, students can get credit for passing tests after two-year IB courses, but that credit is equivalent to one year in AP."

-------------
"Our emphasis is not on gaining college credit," said Greg Croghan, principal of Fairfax's Edison High School, which has IB. "It is on encouraging students to extend themselves intellectually and on preparing for college."

It may not be an issue for Crogan, but it is for those of us who pay the bills and for our children who can get out of those dreadful freshman "survey" courses.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 25, 2008 08:14AM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jay M Wrote:
> >
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
>
> > le/2008/02/24/AR2008022402191.html
> >
> -----------------
> It appears Jay Mathews of the Post finally "gets
> it":
>
> "Students usually can't get college credit for
> one-year IB courses, even though they are similar
> to one-year Advanced Placement courses, which are
> eligible for credit. In another complication,
> students can get credit for passing tests after
> two-year IB courses, but that credit is equivalent
> to one year in AP."
>
> -------------
> "Our emphasis is not on gaining college credit,"
> said Greg Croghan, principal of Fairfax's Edison
> High School, which has IB. "It is on encouraging
> students to extend themselves intellectually and
> on preparing for college."
>
> It may not be an issue for Crogan, but it is for
> those of us who pay the bills and for our children
> who can get out of those dreadful freshman
> "survey" courses.

To me, they are offering a product which they think is great.

Now this is America where we value our freedom of choice. If parents/students do not want to go in an IB only school, they can't be forced to go. Period !!

This nonsense has to stop NOW.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 25, 2008 08:28AM

Its not all Stu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >Only one
> > school board member decides what happens to
> South
> > Lakes. Other school board members don't mess
> > around in his district. It's Stu's district,
> he
> > decides what happens in it.
>
>
> But most of Madison North is NOT in Stu's district
> - its in Janie's
>
> So why hasn't she stood up for the clearly
> articulated needs of her constituents in 'the
> island'?


It is called deal making. Janie at all costs has to save Herndon High which has 2 premier Reston Elementary schools which should really go to South Lakes as South Lakes is a Reston High school. In addition Janie has to shield Langley from this boundary study. Langley has been heard million times by angry citizens because it was not included. She can npt have all, has to give up something.

No matter how you try and defend Stu, in our eyes he is a evil politician who is sacrificing communities in his own district who did not vote for him. That is a truth you can not deny.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 25, 2008 08:38AM

I will say one more thing about Stu.

In the first 2 public hearings, his behavior on the stage was disgusting to say the least. All the speakers were his constituents. Yet when some pro RD speaker spoke Stu made sure he showed his joy and physically cheered the speaker. When anti RD speakers (his own constituents) spoke, he was dismissive, shaking his head is rejection or just walking away from podium. Mind you there were 12 more people on the podium (including Jack Dale) and no one was this emotional.

Only when a lot of angry emails were sent to the board, that his demeanour changed in the third hearing. There is growing anger in Floris community for him. I am sure Fox Mill just loves him too.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 25, 2008 08:59AM

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will say one more thing about Stu.
>
> In the first 2 public hearings, his behavior on
> the stage was disgusting to say the least. All
> the speakers were his constituents. Yet when some
> pro RD speaker spoke Stu made sure he showed his
> joy and physically cheered the speaker. When anti
> RD speakers (his own constituents) spoke, he was
> dismissive, shaking his head is rejection or just
> walking away from podium. Mind you there were 12
> more people on the podium (including Jack Dale)
> and no one was this emotional.
>
> Only when a lot of angry emails were sent to the
> board, that his demeanour changed in the third
> hearing. There is growing anger in Floris
> community for him. I am sure Fox Mill just loves
> him too.

Fox Mil loves Stu? I don't think so. There may be a small fraction of FM people who wouldn't mind going to SL. Not the majority of FM. I have seen Stu's behavior during the first two public hearings and found his behavior appalling. For me I have been UNIMPRESSED with him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: curious redux ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:11AM

AP @ SL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So all you FME/Floris/etc folks - what if the
> curriculum was changed at SL to an AP curriculum,
> and what if you could keep the community together,
> then what? Would you agree for your kids to go to
> SL?

I would agree to send my kids under those conditions. Others may also. But others may not. Many have kids already in Oakton/Westfields, and it would be logistically a pain to have kids in two schools.

On this point, when I was in 9th grade, they opened a new HS. My younger brother was 2 grades behind me....he went to the new HS and I went to the old HS. It was sad...I missed seeing him in school, and he missed seeing me in school. We never went to the same games and we did not feel connected to the other school. Thus we became somewhat disconnected from each other. I left home at 17 for college and the military and never moved back home. When I compare our lives then and today with siblings who went to the same school, I notice that there are a set of shared memories that my brother and I do not have. I think that it is a valid cause for sadness to split siblings. Also, back in the day, I do not think they had pupil placement...even if they did, my family did not have the means to drive him to the old school, and the new school did not accommodate my grade.

If I had a kid in Oakton or WF, and a younger one soon to enter HS, I would prefer they be in the same school to look out for each other, and to maintain a connection through shared experiences. If I had kids spaced so far apart that they would never overlap in HS, and if SL were AP, I would send the younger to SL. No AP, no SL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: comeon ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:15AM

ParentOf4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You want a high school that you
> can feel pride in being a part of, not one that
> you were forced into, and where you know you
> really weren't welcome for who you are, and are
> just a warm band-aid.


Dear ParentOf4,

Teenage social constructs being what they are, South Lakes is the school where your children are MOST likely to be accepted for who they are. That is one of the unique aspects of the school and one of the advantages of the liberal atmosphere in Reston.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:21AM

comeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ParentOf4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You want a high school that you
> > can feel pride in being a part of, not one that
> > you were forced into, and where you know you
> > really weren't welcome for who you are, and are
> > just a warm band-aid.
>
>
> Dear ParentOf4,
>
> Teenage social constructs being what they are,
> South Lakes is the school where your children are
> MOST likely to be accepted for who they are. That
> is one of the unique aspects of the school and one
> of the advantages of the liberal atmosphere in
> Reston.


Gee

I guess all your northern Reston neighbors must be anti liberal because they don't want to go to South Lakes. And local Reston parents don't seem to be that liberal too because they seem to be pupil placing out of South Lakes.

I am a life long democrat and I am a liberal. But that has nothing to do with issue at hand. I strongly feel that South Lakes has programmatic issues and if my child says he/she would rather do AP courses, then I have every right as a tax paying citizen to send my child to an AP school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: dumb ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:25AM

and if you child says he/she doesnt want to eat their vegetables then you have every right as a tax paying citizen to let them have their ice cream anyway.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fm/c/o parent ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:27AM

comeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ParentOf4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You want a high school that you
> > can feel pride in being a part of, not one that
> > you were forced into, and where you know you
> > really weren't welcome for who you are, and are
> > just a warm band-aid.
>
>
> Dear ParentOf4,
>
> Teenage social constructs being what they are,
> South Lakes is the school where your children are
> MOST likely to be accepted for who they are. That
> is one of the unique aspects of the school and one
> of the advantages of the liberal atmosphere in
> Reston.


That may be true. I think there could be some good aspects of our kids going to SL, and hopefully if they did, they'd have a good experience. I hope that people at SL realize that many of us are/were not knee-jerk 100% against going to SL. However, while there may be some nice things about SL, overall we prefer to stay with our current schools. I've thought many times that it would be nice to have a crystal ball, because if this RD goes through, we have to make the tough decision about whether to go to SL or pupil place back to Oakton (or Westfield/Chantilly/Madison), and that isn't a totally black and white decision. I don't mean to blow this whole thing out of proportion when compared to other issues in the world, but we are making an important decision for our children, and we want to get it right. I guess that's why I keep coming back to this message board, so I can be reasonably well-informed about the various issues.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:27AM

dumb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and if you child says he/she doesnt want to eat
> their vegetables then you have every right as a
> tax paying citizen to let them have their ice
> cream anyway.


You must be what your name suggests.

Don't mix apples and oranges.

We are talking about education here for pete's sake. What does that have to do with eating habits.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fm/c/o parent ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:30AM

dumb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and if you child says he/she doesnt want to eat
> their vegetables then you have every right as a
> tax paying citizen to let them have their ice
> cream anyway.


See, this is an perfect example of why you bug us. Stop being so damn patronizing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:37AM

"dumb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and if you child says he/she doesnt want to eat
> their vegetables then you have every right as a
> tax paying citizen to let them have their ice
> cream anyway.
"

The issue is my child is eathing whatever fine in his/her current school and someone wants to force him/her out, so that some other kids, by magic of sitting with more kid, can eat better?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:47AM

AP Wrote:
> The issue is my child is eathing whatever fine in
> his/her current school and someone wants to force
> him/her out, so that some other kids, by magic of
> sitting with more kid, can eat better?

-------------
They already think their IB diet is just fine. OK, so be it, but for whatever reason fewer and fewer children were coming to their lunchroom.

The IB diet costs more than the normal "AP" diet, but we were willing to let that slide until "they" decided OUR children must be force to share the IB diet.

Nothing against your lunchroom or your children, but we like our current lunchroom and diet.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Jay M ()
Date: February 25, 2008 09:55AM

IB schools are under enrolled for a reason. It is not a mainstream program. This has been asked thousands of times but I am compelled to ask again.

Why is a boundary change being considered to fix a programatic issue?


All this will do is put an additional burden on hundreds of parents that will pupil place their children. Each year they will have to be approved and must sit anxiously through the decision period. Every family will have to now provide transportation for one or more of their children. In some cases one child may be allowed to take the bus due to grandfathering while the other must get transportation.

This entire thing is beyond irrational.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: don ()
Date: February 25, 2008 10:00AM

Jay M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB schools are under enrolled for a reason. It is
> not a mainstream program. This has been asked
> thousands of times but I am compelled to ask
> again.
>
> Why is a boundary change being considered to fix a
> programatic issue?
>
>
> All this will do is put an additional burden on
> hundreds of parents that will pupil place their
> children. Each year they will have to be approved
> and must sit anxiously through the decision
> period. Every family will have to now provide
> transportation for one or more of their children.
> In some cases one child may be allowed to take the
> bus due to grandfathering while the other must get
> transportation.
>
> This entire thing is beyond irrational.


Regardless of the IB/AP problem, there are not 600+ kids pupil placing/private schooling/home schooling/not moving to Reston. The current boundary is not large enough to even come close to filling a newly renovated facility.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Reality Check ()
Date: February 25, 2008 10:23AM

The fact of the matter is that FCPS has no idea why more students do not attend South Lakes. The do not track private school enrollment, they do not use census data and they are just now beginning to refine their ability to track migration.

Your guess is as good as theirs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 25, 2008 10:28AM

don Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jay M Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > IB schools are under enrolled for a reason. It
> is
> > not a mainstream program. This has been asked
> > thousands of times but I am compelled to ask
> > again.
> >
> > Why is a boundary change being considered to fix
> a
> > programatic issue?
> >
> >
> > All this will do is put an additional burden on
> > hundreds of parents that will pupil place their
> > children. Each year they will have to be
> approved
> > and must sit anxiously through the decision
> > period. Every family will have to now provide
> > transportation for one or more of their
> children.
> > In some cases one child may be allowed to take
> the
> > bus due to grandfathering while the other must
> get
> > transportation.
> >
> > This entire thing is beyond irrational.
>
>
> Regardless of the IB/AP problem, there are not
> 600+ kids pupil placing/private schooling/home
> schooling/not moving to Reston. The current
> boundary is not large enough to even come close to
> filling a newly renovated facility.

Pupils taking algebra 1 in grade 7 do not have a proper math sequence in IB for grade 12. IB maxes out at 6 courses for college credit in grades 11 and 12. It has fees for grades 9 and 10 that nobody knows what FCPS is charged.

Stellar IB schools in the UK round out the holes in curriculum with AP-US history, Math, Sciences, Psychology. IB is a high school POS [Program of Studies] like the Core Knowledge Program that FCPS used to fund. Core Knowledge was a predecessor to the SOL core content.

IB trains teachers, monitors, grades exams, has a required "coach" for diploma candidates. There are services to the school for an annual fee in adidtion to the exam or assessment costs. Anybody want to pay for a "coach" for about every 40 students in the junior and senior class at TJ?

That is what we are doing with the IB Diploma candidates who are comparable hard workers and smart.

Anybody want to pay for a "coach" for every 40 kids at Madison or Langley [the new fav schools] in the junior and senior class who take 3 AP exams each year?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP @ SL ()
Date: February 25, 2008 11:29AM

Amen

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 25, 2008 11:29AM

IB workshops, training, and events locations. Does this mean we pay for these trips with flights, hotels, etc for heads of schools [principals], IB coordinators, teachers [new and extended learning]?
http://www.ibo.org/events/index.cfm

Did we pay for Stu to go to Geneva, the UK, or Vancouver? That's more money than putting him on Amtrak and getting off in Princeton for a meeting with the college board.

AP [googled teacher training ] and see that FCPS has it's own AP summer institute for $450. If the teacher can't attend that it could always drive over to another local site [universities-colleges] like Howard which has them for $800.

Note Howard is nearby and I guess George Mason or NOVA could even have the classes. Now mileage reimbursement to DC plus a meal is cheaper than airfare and hotels or college accomodations plus 3 meals a day.

And what's with the nine =9 IB school based coordinator people when there are 8 high schools offering the IB diploma for grades 11 and 12? In case you are wondering about grades 9 and 10 IB hits us up for that at only 4 of the 8 high schools plus 4 middle schools. The most vigorous IB program seems to be Marshall and it is the cheapest with only payments flowing out for grades 11 and 12.

Besides the people escaping from Falls Church HS [AP] it gets tons of pupil placements fromMadison, Langley, Mclean.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: smart ()
Date: February 25, 2008 11:30AM

dumb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and if you child says he/she doesnt want to eat
> their vegetables then you have every right as a
> tax paying citizen to let them have their ice
> cream anyway.

Amen to this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 25, 2008 11:46AM

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IB workshops, training, and events locations. Does
> this mean we pay for these trips with flights,
> hotels, etc for heads of schools , IB
> coordinators, teachers ?
> http://www.ibo.org/events/index.cfm
>
> Did we pay for Stu to go to Geneva, the UK, or
> Vancouver? That's more money than putting him on
> Amtrak and getting off in Princeton for a meeting
> with the college board.
>
> AP and see that FCPS has it's own AP summer
> institute for $450. If the teacher can't attend
> that it could always drive over to another local
> site like Howard which has them for $800.
>
> Note Howard is nearby and I guess George Mason or
> NOVA could even have the classes. Now mileage
> reimbursement to DC plus a meal is cheaper than
> airfare and hotels or college accomodations plus 3
> meals a day.
>
> And what's with the nine =9 IB school based
> coordinator people when there are 8 high schools
> offering the IB diploma for grades 11 and 12? In
> case you are wondering about grades 9 and 10 IB
> hits us up for that at only 4 of the 8 high
> schools plus 4 middle schools. The most vigorous
> IB program seems to be Marshall and it is the
> cheapest with only payments flowing out for grades
> 11 and 12.
>
> Besides the people escaping from Falls Church HS
> it gets tons of pupil placements fromMadison,
> Langley, Mclean.


Another instance of IB favoring the top 10% population. In this case the top 5% of FCPS staff ie. the decision makers and implementors at FCPS.

No wonder they like it so much.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: IThinkSo ()
Date: February 25, 2008 12:02PM

AP @ SL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So all you FME/Floris/etc folks - what if the
> curriculum was changed at SL to an AP curriculum,
> and what if you could keep the community together,
> then what? Would you agree for your kids to go to
> SL?


In this case, SL will be no different than Westfield or Herndon. With the addition of FME/Floris kids, I would think SL will be better then Westfield.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 25, 2008 12:17PM

IThinkSo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP @ SL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So all you FME/Floris/etc folks - what if the
> > curriculum was changed at SL to an AP
> curriculum,
> > and what if you could keep the community
> together,
> > then what? Would you agree for your kids to go
> to
> > SL?
>
>
> In this case, SL will be no different than
> Westfield or Herndon. With the addition of
> FME/Floris kids, I would think SL will be better
> then Westfield.


May be this is true but 2 points,

1) If you want FME/Floris to fight your battle of replacing IB with AP in South Lakes, that will not happen. If you can do it on our own, we will be happy and your school will flourish (at least thats my personal opinion).

2) To repeat your sentence,
SL will be no different than Westfields or Herndon, with the addition of Aldrin/Armstrong Elementary too. I would think SL will be better than Westfield. Go after these Reston schools first before you come after us.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fm/c/o parent ()
Date: February 25, 2008 12:28PM

"2) To repeat your sentence,
SL will be no different than Westfields or Herndon, with the addition of Aldrin/Armstrong Elementary too. I would think SL will be better than Westfield. Go after these Reston schools first before you come after us."

I'm sure that SL would be very happy to have those schools, but that's not what the SB has proposed at this point. And those schools would react the same that Floris and Fox Mill have reacted: don't use us to solve your problems. Or, if you don't think that SL has problems, then leave us alone. Finally, if you think SL is great but just too small, then sorry, small schools exist everywhere and SL already gets more $$ per pupil than larger schools. Don't force students to attend so SL can have a few more sections of a course, not a good reason to disrupt families.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 25, 2008 12:48PM

The Jay Matthews article could not have been more timely. What an interesting quandary the SBMs now find themselves in. They are far from being a progressive group. They dont do change well although it would appear that they feel everyone else will or should.

Navy will be excluded. The final analysis leaves Fox Mill, Floris and Madison Island on the table. Will any of these groups be cut out? Will any new group be added? Will this boundary change happen? It may all be too complicated now. What if half of the group just cant find any scenario they can agree upon?

Dr. Goodman is counting pupil placement forms already collected by SLHS. At least one SBM would like to know how many have been completed. Does that mean if SLHS already has a hundred new forms, that they may realize no positive outcome will come of this change?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: huh ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:03PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dr. Goodman is counting pupil placement forms
> already collected by SLHS. At least one SBM would
> like to know how many have been completed. Does
> that mean if SLHS already has a hundred new forms,
> that they may realize no positive outcome will
> come of this change?


Pardon my ignorance but who is Dr. Goodman?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:03PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Jay Matthews article could not have been more
> timely. What an interesting quandary the SBMs now
> find themselves in. They are far from being a
> progressive group. They dont do change well
> although it would appear that they feel everyone
> else will or should.
>
> Navy will be excluded. The final analysis leaves
> Fox Mill, Floris and Madison Island on the table.
> Will any of these groups be cut out? Will any new
> group be added? Will this boundary change happen?
> It may all be too complicated now. What if half
> of the group just cant find any scenario they can
> agree upon?
>
> Dr. Goodman is counting pupil placement forms
> already collected by SLHS. At least one SBM would
> like to know how many have been completed. Does
> that mean if SLHS already has a hundred new forms,
> that they may realize no positive outcome will
> come of this change?

Hey- it would be a lot cheaper to grandfather bus Aldrin than Flrois. The County released it's budget and FCPS is at leasy 63 million in the hole.

IB anyone?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:13PM

Betsy Goodman
Assistant Superintendent Cluster VIII

IB Enthusiast may serve as an alternate title

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: hmmm07 ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:15PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Jay Matthews article could not have been more
> timely. What an interesting quandary the SBMs now
> find themselves in. They are far from being a
> progressive group. They dont do change well
> although it would appear that they feel everyone
> else will or should.
>
> Navy will be excluded. The final analysis leaves
> Fox Mill, Floris and Madison Island on the table.
> Will any of these groups be cut out? Will any new
> group be added? Will this boundary change happen?
> It may all be too complicated now. What if half
> of the group just cant find any scenario they can
> agree upon?
>
> Dr. Goodman is counting pupil placement forms
> already collected by SLHS. At least one SBM would
> like to know how many have been completed. Does
> that mean if SLHS already has a hundred new forms,
> that they may realize no positive outcome will
> come of this change?

I was wondering if anyone was going to mention the Jay Mathews article today. He has always been such an IB proponent, so I was surprised to see him put it all out there on the table that way in this morning's article.

As for Navy getting out, more power to them! I think the idea that those people should have to drive triple the distance to school and be used as "backfill" for Oakton was just ridiculous. Of course, that does make me curious as to why Oakton ends up being the school that loses the most in the name of South Lakes. I would love to know how many pupil placement forms have already been submitted. My guess is that Oakton being under capacity by close to 500 in the out year won't happen. Now that I think about it, leaving Navy out of this could be the SB's way of keeping the status quo anyway. This certainly leaves Oakton with more than enough room to accomodate all the pupil placements, and the SB doesn't have to feel as though they caved to the obvious majority of the citizens by putting the whole thing off. With a little paperwork, everyone can just stay where they are and nobody has to take any "blame."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: huh ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:15PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Betsy Goodman
> Assistant Superintendent Cluster VIII
>
> IB Enthusiast may serve as an alternate title


Thanks
And she is taking applications for people placing into SL or placing out of SL?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:23PM

The Curricular Transfer form is on FCPS.edu. This form is submitted to the base school so if you are a parent of a child in this study you may submit a form to beat the 'rush', by assuming your childs new base school is South Lakes. If the change does not happen they will disgard your form. If it does happen and you elect AP for your child your form is already in the queue.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:40PM

Navy Gets Out - you appear to know quite a bit, but at the same time, post judiciously to cover subject matter to which you are confident. That is the impression in any event - and a positive one, at that.

I am curious - though - why the School Board would initiate a change here - but a change largely in name only, knowing full well that it will likely lead to a small increment of students - meaning that the transfer requests to AP schools will be accommodated - largely at Oakton? The SBM's may be bound up with various agendas, but they are not completely witless - and now have to realize that they have burned up oodles of goodwill in this process. Why would they vote to redistrict under these circumstances - because with the vote they likely will not be able to point to any real progress while the vote at the same time will continually remind others of why they as as group are unlikeable? Is this vote going through so that they can say to the SL PTA - a relatively small but vocal group of people - that they tried? Hardly a way to make policy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WesrfieldMom ()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:46PM

Are you asking that they make sense?

Why would they, with a rule on the books to build high schools at a capacity of 2000, build one at a capacity of 2500?

Why expand that school to 3100?

Why turn around before the paint is dry (and before the lower level is complete) and say, "oops. It is too big. Must make it smaller."?

Remember that it is mostly the same people that have done this.

Why do a study to relieve overcrowding and ignore the schools that are overcrowded?

Why create empty seats at Oakton to fill empty seats at South Lakes?

Why would they indeed?


quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy Gets Out - you appear to know quite a bit,
> but at the same time, post judiciously to cover
> subject matter to which you are confident. That
> is the impression in any event - and a positive
> one, at that.
>
> I am curious - though - why the School Board would
> initiate a change here - but a change largely in
> name only, knowing full well that it will likely
> lead to a small increment of students - meaning
> that the transfer requests to AP schools will be
> accommodated - largely at Oakton? The SBM's may be
> bound up with various agendas, but they are not
> completely witless - and now have to realize that
> they have burned up oodles of goodwill in this
> process. Why would they vote to redistrict under
> these circumstances - because with the vote they
> likely will not be able to point to any real
> progress while the vote at the same time will
> continually remind others of why they as as group
> are unlikeable? Is this vote going through so
> that they can say to the SL PTA - a relatively
> small but vocal group of people - that they tried?
> Hardly a way to make policy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:02PM

Quantum - I am flattered. I dont know so much. I didnt even spell discard correctly in my post. I am far too reliant on spell check.

Anyhow I dont know if the SB will vote for a boundary change. I think the question for them is less about us the constituents and more about other SBMs.

This RD is backed and designed by Stu and Kathy with the support of Storck and Strauss. What is the price of voting against the Old Guard is there a price? Many may view this as the TV show survivor, the Old Guard may get a surprise but you never know until the vote.

It is not that there is an absence of reason on their parts. It is simply that we the public are looking for it in the wrong place. This is a case of you scratch my back and I will scratch yours. This comes down to plain politics. If you can piece together the deals you will understand the vote. February 28th is not the date to look for the answers, it is the dates to follow. It is the votes on spending that will pay back votes lost or gained in this boundary that will shed the light on the rationale.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Taormina ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:19PM

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't
> mean to blow this whole thing out of proportion
> when compared to other issues in the world, but we
> are making an important decision for our children,
> and we want to get it right. I guess that's why I
> keep coming back to this message board, so I can
> be reasonably well-informed about the various
> issues.


Really? At the end of the day (or four years of HS), do you really believe that attending SL versus Wesfield/Oakton/Chantilly is going to make that much of a difference in the type people your children turn out to be or the opportunities which are available to them? None of the statistics and indicators that are tossed about on this site really make me feel that the differences between the 1st and 15th "best" FCPS high school are all that great. If your child has the aptitude to get into UVA/VT/Harvard/Oberlin, is the high school they attend going to make a demonstrable difference? Will it impact their long-term financial wealth and personal happiness? If not, what are you concerned about?

I appreciate the emotion that is tied up with changing schools, but this hand wringing and tsuris is way over the top. Frankly, I know a lot of kids who would gladly move from a large school like Robinson to SL just so that they were in a smaller and more intimate environment. Like a lot of things in life high school is what you make of it. Unless you are the parent of a special education student who requires structure and does not easily accept change, I would not worry so much about your children adapting.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HooTribe ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:20PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
>

> It is not that there is an absence of reason on
> their parts. It is simply that we the public are
> looking for it in the wrong place. This is a case
> of you scratch my back and I will scratch yours.
> This comes down to plain politics. If you can
> piece together the deals you will understand the
> vote. February 28th is not the date to look for
> the answers, it is the dates to follow. It is the
> votes on spending that will pay back votes lost or
> gained in this boundary that will shed the light
> on the rationale.

NavyGetsOut:

Very good point. It will all come down to politics - either agreements that have already been made or promises on votes in the future.

Quantum:

I agree with your point about consequences to the vote. The SB could face a negative reaction either way. If they vote yes, then your point of no real progress may come true. If they vote no, this will provide the blueprint on how to stop any and all future boundary studies. Some may like that idea, but it will have long term implications, such as having to build new schools instead of using existing space through boundary changes.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ferfuxIsSLHAPTAChair ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:30PM

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the admins for this site dont mess with this
> thread. He stated in another thread that the
> script/memory went awry cuz there were TOO many
> posts for it to handle. THere is no controversy
> regarding content or who posts. CARY LOVES that
> you all are hitting up his site. You all getting
> bent out of shape over redistricting is HILARIOUS
> to us regular posters. Just keep livin man,
> L-I-V-I-N. Your kids will be just FIIIIIIIINE no
> matter WHAT school they go to. SHeeeeeeeeeeit,


A typical product of SLHS.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fm/c/o parent ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:35PM

Taormina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fm/c/o parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't
> > mean to blow this whole thing out of proportion
> > when compared to other issues in the world, but
> we
> > are making an important decision for our
> children,
> > and we want to get it right. I guess that's why
> I
> > keep coming back to this message board, so I
> can
> > be reasonably well-informed about the various
> > issues.
>
>
> Really? At the end of the day (or four years of
> HS), do you really believe that attending SL
> versus Wesfield/Oakton/Chantilly is going to make
> that much of a difference in the type people your
> children turn out to be or the opportunities which
> are available to them?

Sometimes we don't know exactly what will make a difference. It seems clear that IB schools don't offer as much in math and science. My 8th grader is taking geometry. He will either miss out on advanced math in IB (compared to what he could get at Oakton) or he'll have to do some juggling to get a higher math class at NoVa or something. So, yes, it makes at least some difference. Other posters on here have already shown that the IB math program is sort of an odd duck, not fitting in with the math programs at U.S. colleges. If my kid wants to study engineering, I want him to be as prepared as possible. I've heard about the kids from SL who go on to major in math, etc., but who knows if those kids could have an easier time in college if their high school studies were more mainstream?

None of the statistics and
> indicators that are tossed about on this site
> really make me feel that the differences between
> the 1st and 15th "best" FCPS high school are all
> that great. If your child has the aptitude to get
> into UVA/VT/Harvard/Oberlin, is the high school
> they attend going to make a demonstrable
> difference?

It seems that on average kids have a higher chance of gettng into those schools from SL, at least in the past few years. That makes SL somewhat appealing, which is why it's not an automatic pupil place decision.

Will it impact their long-term
> financial wealth and personal happiness? If not,
> what are you concerned about?
>

We don't always know what will affect the future, but we try to make the best decision we can given the info available. Kids who are at Carson now have many friends who will attend Westfield or Oakton and not so many that would attend SL. If we had bought a house in Reston in the first place (which we didn't on purpose, BTW), then we'd be in a different position. It's easy for people who aren't being affected by RD to be so relaxed about it.

Again, in the long run we don't know how it might matter where our kids go to school, but in the meantime we have a choice to make, and we have to try our best to do the right thing for our kids.

Also, we are generally annoyed about being used by the SB for whatever reason of the day you want to go with. This isn't a benign situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2008 02:43PM by fm/c/o parent.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Daily ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:46PM

I wonder if it is at all possible to get through a day where a Pro RD person does not tell an Anti-RD that their children will survive.

When anyone makes a statement such as that to another parent it is obviously antagonistic.

It is a daily routine at this time of the day. It grows tiresome. Only 4 more days.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: just don't buy it ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:49PM

Taormina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fm/c/o parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I appreciate the emotion that is tied up with
> changing schools, but this hand wringing and
> tsuris is way over the top.

I just don't buy this

No one has explained

- why we have got two completely different educational structures (AP and IB) on a random geographic basis and why kids are being grabbed from one into the other by fiat

- why SLHS and Hughes have significant performance gaps compared to, for example, Madison and Thoreau

- how it would benefit the kids and families being grabbed

- why this farce wasn't halted when it became crystal clear that the affected communities were overwhelmingly against being RD'd (it's been remarkable how communities have become pro-RD once they realize that by pointing the finger at another community they get out)

- why the madison north community is being grabbed at elementary, middle and high (and why its SB member is not standing up for it - and where are the at-larges with the difficult questions?)

- why the SB have withdrawn in shame into private phone calls to carve up the future of our children, afraid of public scrutiny

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:59PM

... If your child has the aptitude to
> get
> > into UVA/VT/Harvard/Oberlin,...
That makes SL somewhat
> appealing, which is why it's not an automatic
> pupil place decision.

Now if those kids are-were underrepresented minorities it makes the whole SL's advantage gone where if your child is the standard white or Asian . If they were not underrpresented minorities and went for IB diplomas plus were moguls in a small school [far easier than in a private school] then SL's did have a clear advantage. That advantage is going to be removed by making it a regualr FCPS school with or without IB.

A small school plus a school where lots of kids were-are ESOL and FRPM. Small numbers of IB diploma candidates. That's like a private school or small magnet already. If I was a parent of a SL's IB diploma candidate who got all sorts of honors, positions, and accolades would I want more kids? No unless I wanted a winning football or lacrosse team. They need numbers.

So the real losers in this whole thing might be the 'rents on the SL's boundary committee. Too funny. Meanwhile Aldrin parents will continue in their school within a school.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 25, 2008 03:07PM

Taormina Wrote:
> ... Frankly, I know a
> lot of kids who would gladly move from a large
> school like Robinson to SL just so that they were
> in a smaller and more intimate environment. ...

How did Robinson get into this? They would be far more likely to pupil place into Fairfax (capacity 2075) or Woodson (capacity 1950, not including the Speicial Ed Center addition) Look it up: 4 pupil placements into Fairfax and 8 into Woodson. Nope - I don't see much movement.

At the high school level Robinson has "only" 2,838 while Westfield has 3,197 (as of 30 Sep). And how many pupil-placed from Westfield into "smaller and more intimate" South Lakes? FIVE (and 8 moved FROM South Lakes into Westfield).

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 25, 2008 03:13PM

HooTribe Wrote:

> ... it will have long term
> implications, such as having to build new schools
> instead of using existing space through boundary
> changes.

Like, for example, do we build a new and totally unneeded new middle school in south county. Just move 50 children per grade (300 total) to Lake Braddock.

If the School Board is serious about downsizing large high schools, then there is no way it can justify taking the middle schoolers out of SCSS and thus creating a 2,500-seat South County High School.

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