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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 26, 2008 05:19PM

Note that I did not advocate getting rid of the GT centers. I clearly do, as you suggest, advocate rethinking them in some regards, and clearly, they should not be used to superficially proclaim the greatness of our schools at the expense of solving manifest challenges - which I think is what is happening in many cases. The one thing that bothers me most is the earful of platitudes we constantly hear - and candor and some brutal honesty would in my view be well received - you might have better off parents more willing to participate covering for, or minimizing, social costs with this kind of honesty - people are very distrustful of the spin.

And note that I think overall the experiences at these GT magnet schools for the GT kids there are fine - although realistically these kids by and large will prosper in any reasonable environment. They benefit to a degree in PE, music, etc. from the diversity, although most all of it is outside of class (and not on the bus either).

And from a FCPS perspective, the world would be an easier place if the GT magnet concept would work as well in high school. But it doesn't. Hence part of the reason for the rancor here.

And once again, I wish we would rid ourselves of racial identity politics altogether. But this cannot be so since we remain so doggedly determined to parse out societal benefits based on one's pigment. And because this is so, difficult discussions must take place. You can't confer benefit on the basis of race and at the same time conveniently surmise that differences don't exist, or look scantily at the causes therefor.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 05:23PM

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martin Luther King Jr. - how right you are!! That
> is exactly what is so troublesome and even
> offensive about what FCPS schools are doing at the
> so-called GT magnet centers. At these schools,
> such as Hunters Woods, while there may be physical
> proximity, the experience in the classroom is
> highly segregated, so you would think that the
> schools were practicing separate and unequal
> contary to Brown. But they aren't - they are
> importing kids to manage test scores - and to be
> fair, improve the schools and enhance parent
> participation. But to deny that this isn't a
> segregated experience is folly. Thus is the
> danger, of course, with quotes being used in
> self-righteous out of context way - you end up
> actually persuading the opposite side of the
> argument. What drives me crazy is that the
> administrator parrots how great these GT schools
> are - over and over again - practicing a form of
> legally sanctioned segregation that is: i)
> greater than the GT kids would ever have
> experienced had they simply stayed in their base
> schools; and ii) of a magnitude that is astounding
> in wealthy Fairfax County. Yet not a peep from
> anyone at this "injustice".
>
> The real problem lies in that once 9th grade hits,
> schools with challenging populations no longer can
> rely on the GT fix. Performance differences
> diverge - and each high school - no longer small
> entities but large ones - and the GT fix loses
> its camouflage effect. And in the end, while the
> scores in the aggregate at certain schools look
> better than they did, the real problem - that of a
> significant chunk of kids who receive social
> promotions in the absence of real learning or
> progress - never really gets addressed. In fact,
> the lack of skills in these populations is the
> real challenge - and frankly, casting it in Brown
> terms or even Dr. King's terms - doesn't further
> solving the problem.

Quantum, this is changing, thanks to the program "Young Scholars" whose ONLY goal is to place more blacks and Hispanics into GT centers. That necessitated the percentage of students in GT centers to go from 4.5% of the students in k-8, to 14.5%. Now every GT center class has children on multiple levels, including some below grade level. Nearly every GT center has remedial classes for those GT students who are not performing at grade level. There is no goal in the Young Scholars program to determine if these minorities are actually better educated by attending a GT center. There are no comparisons of test scores, or anything else. Providing a better education for these children was not the goal, the goal was only to place them into GT centers, without being sued. It's a rather costly program with no measures of educational outcome.

However, you are correct in that GT centers are being placed in more and more low performing schools to mask the test scores. Luther Jackson middle school being a case in point. With a new GT center it is hoped that they will make AYP this year. Of course that does nothing to help the failing students at Luther Jackson. They are simply averaged in and swept under the rug.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 05:32PM

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Note that I did not advocate getting rid of the GT
> centers. I clearly do, as you suggest, advocate
> rethinking them in some regards, and clearly, they
> should not be used to superficially proclaim the
> greatness of our schools at the expense of solving
> manifest challenges - which I think is what is
> happening in many cases. The one thing that
> bothers me most is the earful of platitudes we
> constantly hear - and candor and some brutal
> honesty would in my view be well received - you
> might have better off parents more willing to
> participate covering for, or minimizing, social
> costs with this kind of honesty - people are very
> distrustful of the spin.
>
> And note that I think overall the experiences at
> these GT magnet schools for the GT kids there are
> fine - although realistically these kids by and
> large will prosper in any reasonable environment.
> They benefit to a degree in PE, music, etc. from
> the diversity, although most all of it is outside
> of class (and not on the bus either).
>
> And from a FCPS perspective, the world would be an
> easier place if the GT magnet concept would work
> as well in high school. But it doesn't. Hence
> part of the reason for the rancor here.
>
> And once again, I wish we would rid ourselves of
> racial identity politics altogether. But this
> cannot be so since we remain so doggedly
> determined to parse out societal benefits based on
> one's pigment. And because this is so, difficult
> discussions must take place. You can't confer
> benefit on the basis of race and at the same time
> conveniently surmise that differences don't exist,
> or look scantily at the causes therefor.

Agreed. But that seems to be a discussion that FCPS will ignore at all costs.

GT centers historically provided a safe place for the 'nerds' whose academic and social needs extended beyond what their base school could provide. Many of those children had NO social or academic peers at their base schools. Many were teased and made fun of because they were so different. GT centers were a Godsend for those kids, to finally find other children like themselves, and to be in classrooms where they were challenged and permitted to work at whatever their level was. The social aspect was often times equal to the academic. Many of these children had friends, for the first time in their lives. They finally found a place where they fit in, and were accepted as they were without peer pressure to be different. The social and psychological benefits of the centers should not be minimized.

Thank heavens many of these kids also had TJ, where every student could find a group, even the nerdiest child.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 26, 2008 05:57PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> However, you are correct in that GT centers are
> being placed in more and more low performing
> schools to mask the test scores. Luther Jackson
> middle school being a case in point. With a new
> GT center it is hoped that they will make AYP this
> year. Of course that does nothing to help the
> failing students at Luther Jackson. They are
> simply averaged in and swept under the rug.

However, schools not making AYP aren't making it due to subgroups. GT centers don't assist with that aspect at all. The failing students aren't "simply averarged in" and swept under the rug. If those failing students fall into any category like special ed, esol or minority, than they are part of a subgroup. If any subgroup fails to make AYP than the school doesn't make AYP.

That is in part how Maria Allen was able to show the differences you mentioned earlier.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: no rd ()
Date: February 26, 2008 06:06PM

Taxpayer what a great idea I am surprised your not on the school board. Off of Sunset Hills Rd the school bus picks up two kids for the high school, two for the middle school and three for the elementary school. I am sure this will solve the problem.

Bachman compromise? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > However, there are some specific areas in the
> > Madison island that could-should be in the
> South
> > Lakes Pyramid:
> > Bachman
> > anything off Sunset Hills
> >
>
>
> Bachman I could agree with - there is no
> established community there, although construction
> was started and there is a precedent for
> redistricting before/during buildout (as per
> Hunter Mill Estates)
>
> Equestrian Park on Sunset is so small that its
> easiest just to leave it alone
>
> Restricting to Bachman would avoid uprooting
> established communities to no appreciable benefit

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kudos
Posted by: kudos ()
Date: February 26, 2008 06:29PM

Kudos to Maria Allen for showing how dramatically the Reston schools and other disadvantaged elementary schools in Fairfax County are underperforming relative to Richmond, and Christine Arakelian for showing how Reston schools are dramatically underperforming schools with similar or worse demographics in other parts of Fairfax County.

I got a handout from a volunteer at a Back to School night on these items, and it really was an eye-opener. I showed it to many people, and it really made us think. It changed the nature of the debate on our schools for the better, because the School Board and Stu Gibson in particular can't hide anymore. Betsy Goodman should be removed from her job, and is responsible for much of the mess in the South Lakes pyramid, too. She is coasting until retirement, and could care less about taking on a real leadership role to take the schools to the next level. She is asleep at the switch.

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Re: kudos
Posted by: iagree ()
Date: February 26, 2008 06:35PM

Betsy Goodman should be removed
> from her job, and is responsible for much of the
> mess in the South Lakes pyramid, too. She is
> coasting until retirement, and could care less
> about taking on a real leadership role to take the
> schools to the next level. She is asleep at the
> switch.


YOU COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER....I AGREE!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Better idea ()
Date: February 26, 2008 07:00PM

Since SL is so bad, tell you what, why don't we just raze it altogether, and while we are at it, let's raze Reston as well.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 26, 2008 07:17PM

Neen - I know it must be my own lack of intuition, but how is it in the Young Scholars program that certain GT kids are performing at below grade level and receiving a form of remedial education? This makes no sense - it doesn't do the kids any favors, and while it accomplishes the goal of physical proximity, actually in a sense increases segregation while furthering stigmatization, virtually guaranteeing a group frustrated students that perceive the world in angry racial terms.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: mary Jo ()
Date: February 26, 2008 08:06PM

ParentOf4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well actually Mary JO, we don't like Stu because
> he is supposed to be our representative, and he is
> neglecting to listen to us, and treating us with
> contempt. Gee, just what I would want from a
> public official that is to represent my
> interests!! I did not vote for him. I am a little
> tired too of his taped video messages at Back to
> School nights. He is such a grand representative
> !!! NOT!!




Well he also represents all of Reston and he thought your little genius would make his crappy little south lakes proud

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Re: kudos
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 09:40PM

kudos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kudos to Maria Allen for showing how dramatically
> the Reston schools and other disadvantaged
> elementary schools in Fairfax County are
> underperforming relative to Richmond, and
> Christine Arakelian for showing how Reston schools
> are dramatically underperforming schools with
> similar or worse demographics in other parts of
> Fairfax County.
>
> I got a handout from a volunteer at a Back to
> School night on these items, and it really was an
> eye-opener. I showed it to many people, and it
> really made us think. It changed the nature of the
> debate on our schools for the better, because the
> School Board and Stu Gibson in particular can't
> hide anymore. Betsy Goodman should be removed
> from her job, and is responsible for much of the
> mess in the South Lakes pyramid, too. She is
> coasting until retirement, and could care less
> about taking on a real leadership role to take the
> schools to the next level. She is asleep at the
> switch.

PLEASE tell the school board and the board of supervisors, and everyone else.

Isn't the internet wonderful? The public, the taxpayers, are finally learning the truth, thanks to the internet and thanks to NCLB. We should also thank Maria Allen for all she's done to make us aware of what is happening in our schools, especially in Reston. Thanks to Christine Arakelian too for running for School board and spreading the word to those who are open enough to pay attention to what is happening and how the taxpayer's money is being spent and misspent.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 26, 2008 09:43PM

Quantum,

FCPS staff have made enormous efforts to admit underrepresented minority students who have been determined by staff to have potential, but who are not functioning above grade level. Individual students who are struggling in the GT Centers are given additional assistance from their teachers, volunteers, and others, either in the GTC class or in small pullouts. One GTC parent I know was asked to work extensively with some GTC students who the teacher thought might fail their SOL tests, for example.


quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen - I know it must be my own lack of intuition,
> but how is it in the Young Scholars program that
> certain GT kids are performing at below grade
> level and receiving a form of remedial education?
> This makes no sense - it doesn't do the kids any
> favors, and while it accomplishes the goal of
> physical proximity, actually in a sense increases
> segregation while furthering stigmatization,
> virtually guaranteeing a group frustrated students
> that perceive the world in angry racial terms.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2008 09:44PM by APorIBMom.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SL is doodie ()
Date: February 26, 2008 09:51PM

I hope the RD passes. Then the Fox Mill and Floris kids can join with the FRM and ESOL kids to kick the snot out of the IB kids. It will be great!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: closeDownSL ()
Date: February 26, 2008 09:56PM

Better idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since SL is so bad, tell you what, why don't we
> just raze it altogether, and while we are at it,
> let's raze Reston as well.

I agree on SLHS. It is a failing school and the best way is to shut it down and send its students to the high performing adjacent schools. Every one wins in that case. SLHS students get into good schools and no one has to be forced into a failing school.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 10:03PM

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen - I know it must be my own lack of intuition,
> but how is it in the Young Scholars program that
> certain GT kids are performing at below grade
> level and receiving a form of remedial education?
> This makes no sense - it doesn't do the kids any
> favors, and while it accomplishes the goal of
> physical proximity, actually in a sense increases
> segregation while furthering stigmatization,
> virtually guaranteeing a group frustrated students
> that perceive the world in angry racial terms.

No, it's not you. Many of us have expressed the same concerns. But we have been assured that those children are so proud of themselves, for having been admitted to the Young Scholars program, and later to GT centers, that it is not an issue. They are just so happy!

Were you around back when Hunters Woods principal placed a Down Syndrome child into a GT center class? The children were wonderfully nice to her, her parents were thrilled, and she was very happy. She became something of the class mascot and was not expected to keep up with the others. But one has to wonder how it helped to educate her, regardless of how it might have helped her self esteem or how happy she felt, briefly.

Before anyone goes nuts, I am NOT saying that children in today's GT centers suffer from Downs Syndrome!

According to the GT office, Carol Horn, some of today's current students have gifts that have not yet emerged. They are gifted, there just isn't any evidence of it, yet. If they can placed in GT centers those gifts will emerge. Until their gifts emerge, they will receive remedial help, or grade level assistance, free summer school program, extra tutoring, whatever they need. The FCPS GT office believes that if they can make Black and Hispanic children feel special, by being chosen for Young Scholars, and nurtured through the early school years, they will blossom into being gifted. The goal of Young Scholars is to find ways to place more Black and Hispanic children into GT centers. To that end, they receive extra help, extra programs, smaller classes, a month of free summer school, beginning in kindergarten, with the hope that they will qualify for GT centers by third grade. By expanding GT centers, from 4.5% to 14.5%, and making the qualifications much more subjective, there are more Blacks and Hispanics in the GT centers, than in the past. Therefore Young Scholars has been a very successful program.

Unfortunately it hasn't helped in getting more Black students into TJ, despite a similar admission push at TJ. ONE Young Scholar was accepted at TJ last year. But no one knows if that program really helped him to be smarter, or better educated, or if he was accepted because of TJ's new affirmative action admission policies, or if he would have been accepted without Young Scholars or affirmative action. There is no way to determine any of that, because there is no way to measure any educational benefit of Young Scholars since academics were never a goal of the program. No matter, FCPS still spends millions on the program, with zero evidence that it has helped to educate any Black child, only that it has put more Black children into GT centers, a goal staff has determined is worthy of millions of dollars. They FEEL it is good for these students. It makes staff happy, surely it makes the children happy too. And isn't that the goal? Happy children? (Not to say that we measure student happiness either.)

Quantum, please feel free to PM me for more details, among other things.

Thank you.

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Re: kudos
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 10:07PM

iagree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Betsy Goodman should be removed
> > from her job, and is responsible for much of
> the
> > mess in the South Lakes pyramid, too. She is
> > coasting until retirement, and could care less
> > about taking on a real leadership role to take
> the
> > schools to the next level. She is asleep at
> the
> > switch.
>
>
> YOU COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER....I AGREE!

Why is Betsy Goodman more responsible than our school board and administration? She carries out what they want done. Doesn't she? She can't put in good reading programs or real math programs, unless that's what the school board wants done. Such programs are in conflict with Stu's ideology, so I don't see it happening.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 10:13PM

Better idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since SL is so bad, tell you what, why don't we
> just raze it altogether, and while we are at it,
> let's raze Reston as well.

Since there are many people who want to live in Reston, many more who work there, and many more who enjoy their parks and restaurants, there is no need to raze Reston, or would there be any benefit to anyone. But since so few want to attend South Lakes, razing it should have been considered before they sunk $50 million into renovating it. All of the students could have been absorbed by neighboring high schools over the next 4 years without over crowding any other high school. Then the property could have been sold with the money going to FCPS. But too late for that now, they won't consider it because they've foolishly spent so much money on a school that so few want to attend.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldMom ()
Date: February 26, 2008 10:57PM

Well, forget TJ as a haven for gifted kids with poor social skills. FCPS wants TJ to be a school for the kids whose parents have really good social skills.

The principal of TJ was quoted in Northern Virginia Magazine as saying that TJ is not for gifted kids, but rather for kids with a "passion" for science.

Argh.




Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> GT centers historically provided a safe place for
> the 'nerds' whose academic and social needs
> extended beyond what their base school could
> provide. Many of those children had NO social or
> academic peers at their base schools. Many were
> teased and made fun of because they were so
> different. GT centers were a Godsend for those
> kids, to finally find other children like
> themselves, and to be in classrooms where they
> were challenged and permitted to work at whatever
> their level was. The social aspect was often
> times equal to the academic. Many of these
> children had friends, for the first time in their
> lives. They finally found a place where they fit
> in, and were accepted as they were without peer
> pressure to be different. The social and
> psychological benefits of the centers should not
> be minimized.
>
> Thank heavens many of these kids also had TJ,
> where every student could find a group, even the
> nerdiest child.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 11:12PM

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, forget TJ as a haven for gifted kids with
> poor social skills. FCPS wants TJ to be a school
> for the kids whose parents have really good social
> skills.
>
> The principal of TJ was quoted in Northern
> Virginia Magazine as saying that TJ is not for
> gifted kids, but rather for kids with a "passion"
> for science.
>
> Argh.

Yes, that's part of the affirmative action deal. They help Black kids to show a passion for science so that they can be admitted even with lower scores and poorer grades. Programs like Quest help Black kids through the TJ process, tutor them for the test, help them to enter science fairs, or show other interest in science.

I wonder why they aren't looking for kids with a passion for math or technology? Perhaps that might be more problematic since math ability can be demonstrated through high math scores, excelling in advanced math classes, high scores in math on standardized tests, or high math scores on the tests for the Hopkins program, SAT in 7th grade. Tech ability might also be shown by ability to program, having designed computer programs, webpages, etc. A passion for science is much more subjective, there are few standardized science scores, no SAT science tests in 7th grade, and no advanced science courses for middle schoolers in FCPS. A passion for science can mean anything the admission teams choose for it to mean.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TimeToThrowOutIBFromSL ()
Date: February 26, 2008 11:35PM

SL is doodie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope the RD passes. Then the Fox Mill and
> Floris kids can join with the FRM and ESOL kids to
> kick the snot out of the IB kids. It will be
> great!

If the RD happens, then there will be 700 new parents that will be asking to remove IB and put AP - Will be interesting to see Bruce Butlers response to that..

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 26, 2008 11:59PM

TimeToThrowOutIBFromSL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL is doodie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I hope the RD passes. Then the Fox Mill and
> > Floris kids can join with the FRM and ESOL kids
> to
> > kick the snot out of the IB kids. It will be
> > great!
>
> If the RD happens, then there will be 700 new
> parents that will be asking to remove IB and put
> AP - Will be interesting to see Bruce Butlers
> response to that..

It won't happen. First, about 150 students a year will be sent to South Lakes. Of those, they can expect 50 to 75 to actually show up. Those few parents won't have any say in the academic programs at South Lakes. PLUS, SL will make up excuses to keep the program they want, IB. During this budget crunch, for the next several years, it will be too expensive to train teachers to teach AP. PLUS, many, if not most of the people at South Lakes and in Reston, like IB. Even if South Lakes gets a few hundred new families, they won't control what is taught at South Lakes. Bruce Butler can't tell all those teachers that they have to go to school in the summer to train and qualify to teach AP, nor would he. And there won't be any money for AP training for teachers. South Lakes is stuck with IB for the foreseeable future. Sorry. :(

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 27, 2008 05:46AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ONE Young Scholar was
> accepted at TJ last year.

How do you know a Young Scholar was accepted? How long has that program been in existence? I have only heard of it for a few years, and it is targeted to young ES students, right?

I do think something needs to be done at the ES level to assist more students, who might end being interested and qualified for TJ. In particular math instruction for all students needs to be beefed up. When I first started teaching, after years of another career, I was appalled to see the math textbooks used. I found an old textbook, a very basic text, and used that with my students rather than the hodgepodge book I had been told to use. The required text had lots of pretty pictures, with tons of information, but very little math. My 4 year old was doing more math in his head, than these third graders were requested to learn. I haven't taught math in an ES in sometime, but I hear the books remain the same. Without beefing up ES math, students won't get into Algebra in a timely fashion, and will instead have essentially the same math concepts taught between 6th-8th grade.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 27, 2008 05:52AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TimeToThrowOutIBFromSL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SL is doodie Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I hope the RD passes. Then the Fox Mill and
> > > Floris kids can join with the FRM and ESOL
> kids
> > to
> > > kick the snot out of the IB kids. It will be
> > > great!
> >
> > If the RD happens, then there will be 700 new
> > parents that will be asking to remove IB and
> put
> > AP - Will be interesting to see Bruce Butlers
> > response to that..
>
> It won't happen. First, about 150 students a year
> will be sent to South Lakes. Of those, they can
> expect 50 to 75 to actually show up. Those few
> parents won't have any say in the academic
> programs at South Lakes. PLUS, SL will make up
> excuses to keep the program they want, IB. During
> this budget crunch, for the next several years, it
> will be too expensive to train teachers to teach
> AP. PLUS, many, if not most of the people at
> South Lakes and in Reston, like IB. Even if South
> Lakes gets a few hundred new families, they won't
> control what is taught at South Lakes. Bruce
> Butler can't tell all those teachers that they
> have to go to school in the summer to train and
> qualify to teach AP, nor would he. And there
> won't be any money for AP training for teachers.
> South Lakes is stuck with IB for the foreseeable
> future. Sorry. :(


Not to throw out unjustified hope, but this summer more AP teacher training is being offered than I have ever seen before. It may be due to other reasons, and could be as simple as a new method of notifying teachers what is offered in the summer, but truly I have never seen so many offerings for potential AP teachers. Of course a teacher needs to have principal approval to sign up for that training, in other words teachers that have been asked to teach an AP course, or have requested to do so, will be getting the training. For those interested, perhaps asking Mr.Butler if he is sending any teachers to those training sessions would be most informative.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Walt ()
Date: February 27, 2008 08:48AM

TimeToThrowOutIBFromSL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL is doodie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I hope the RD passes. Then the Fox Mill and
> > Floris kids can join with the FRM and ESOL kids
> to
> > kick the snot out of the IB kids. It will be
> > great!
>
> If the RD happens, then there will be 700 new
> parents that will be asking to remove IB and put
> AP - Will be interesting to see Bruce Butlers
> response to that..


you DO have quite an imagination.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: CV ()
Date: February 27, 2008 08:51AM

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TimeToThrowOutIBFromSL Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SL is doodie Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I hope the RD passes. Then the Fox Mill
> and
> > > > Floris kids can join with the FRM and ESOL
> > kids
> > > to
> > > > kick the snot out of the IB kids. It will
> be
> > > > great!
> > >
> > > If the RD happens, then there will be 700 new
> > > parents that will be asking to remove IB and
> > put
> > > AP - Will be interesting to see Bruce Butlers
> > > response to that..
> >
> > It won't happen. First, about 150 students a
> year
> > will be sent to South Lakes. Of those, they
> can
> > expect 50 to 75 to actually show up. Those few
> > parents won't have any say in the academic
> > programs at South Lakes. PLUS, SL will make up
> > excuses to keep the program they want, IB.
> During
> > this budget crunch, for the next several years,
> it
> > will be too expensive to train teachers to
> teach
> > AP. PLUS, many, if not most of the people at
> > South Lakes and in Reston, like IB. Even if
> South
> > Lakes gets a few hundred new families, they
> won't
> > control what is taught at South Lakes. Bruce
> > Butler can't tell all those teachers that they
> > have to go to school in the summer to train and
> > qualify to teach AP, nor would he. And there
> > won't be any money for AP training for teachers.
>
> > South Lakes is stuck with IB for the
> foreseeable
> > future. Sorry. :(
>
>
> Not to throw out unjustified hope, but this summer
> more AP teacher training is being offered than I
> have ever seen before. It may be due to other
> reasons, and could be as simple as a new method of
> notifying teachers what is offered in the summer,
> but truly I have never seen so many offerings for
> potential AP teachers. Of course a teacher needs
> to have principal approval to sign up for that
> training, in other words teachers that have been
> asked to teach an AP course, or have requested to
> do so, will be getting the training. For those
> interested, perhaps asking Mr.Butler if he is
> sending any teachers to those training sessions
> would be most informative.



SAD, SAD, SAD, and the guidance counselors can't even begin to say what, if anything, will be available this summer in FCPS' summer schools.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 27, 2008 09:13AM

Neen Wrote:
->
> It won't happen. First, about 150 students a year
> will be sent to South Lakes. Of those, they can
> expect 50 to 75 to actually show up. Those few
> parents won't have any say in the academic
> programs at South Lakes. PLUS, SL will make up
> excuses to keep the program they want, IB. During
> this budget crunch, for the next several years, it
> will be too expensive to train teachers to teach
> AP. PLUS, many, if not most of the people at
> South Lakes and in Reston, like IB. Even if South
> Lakes gets a few hundred new families, they won't
> control what is taught at South Lakes. Bruce
> Butler can't tell all those teachers that they
> have to go to school in the summer to train and
> qualify to teach AP, nor would he. And there
> won't be any money for AP training for teachers.
> South Lakes is stuck with IB for the foreseeable
> future. Sorry. :(

Neen, quit talking like you know anything about what South Lakes wants. You aren't there, you don't know. As it turns out, the vast majority of people I talk are interested in AP. Most with current high schoolers don't have a strong like or dislike of IB, they just live with it. If the chance to get AP at South Lakes comes up, I think many parents would welcome it and would also welcome the chance to work with the new families to feel like SL was their school too. Just a data point, but certainly better than what Neen is providing, which is her own personal opinion based on .....nothing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:29AM

There is a movement amongst SBMs to justify a boundary change by bringing AP to SLHS. They will take a look at it and then it will be dismissed. As long as Stu Gibson sits on that board there will be no taking IB out of SLHS. Taking a look and surveying the parents does not mean instituting the change.

SLHS is as close to changing out IB for AP as the United States is to getting affordable healthcare.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:35AM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a movement amongst SBMs to justify a
> boundary change by bringing AP to SLHS. They will
> take a look at it and then it will be dismissed.
> As long as Stu Gibson sits on that board there
> will be no taking IB out of SLHS. Taking a look
> and surveying the parents does not mean
> instituting the change.
>
> SLHS is as close to changing out IB for AP as the
> United States is to getting affordable healthcare.


If that is the case and Stu is adamant against AP discussion, why do the SMBs have to vote for his RD proposal?

Just does not make any sense, that one board member has the whole community hostage for his whim.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:52AM

This Young Scholars deal seems silly and yet another self esteem program. Like it or not - and as tough as it may be on some - TJ is not a place in which one can even easily survive without an IQ of 135. The school like all schools will teach to the mean and TJ's mean of around 1500 on the math and verbal portion of the SAT's is not arrived at by serendipity. These kids are very, very smart - and us parents who thought we were pretty smart back in the day - and some of us, despite being deemed blow hards, went to and were successful at some of this country's absolute best schools - know we "ain't so smart" when compared to the bulk of TJ'ers - and frankly, while we are at it - the top 5% at the other FCPS high schools - they really are no different than the TJers. Put another way, we are dealing with kids at 1% of the population - a group that is overrepresented in Northern Virginia because of the federal Government's presence - and a feel good program isn't going to automatically vault students into succeeding at programs designed to serve that slim 1%.

Now, IQ is not the be all and end all, but it does have some relevance, and it is pure fantasy to think that some capable, but not brilliant, kid clocking in at 115 or so is going to compete with the pack of wolves at TJ who by and large clock in near 150 on the IQ scale or higher, with study habits that are really hardwired to boot. Note that this isn't about the merits of affirmative action - it is really about what works - and the last thing we need is another program that doesn't really work - and worse yet, its intended recipients, ironically, often end up thinking that they are somehow the victims of discrimination - because the millions spent on them don't show the magical progress that is expected and of course it then must be the "system" that is at fault.

Having said this, I do agree with any program that challenges kids to algebra at an early age. If those skills can be hardwired early, math is much easier down the road. I am skeptical, though - that the hoopla of a Young Scholars type program does this - simply deliver challenging, non-everday math everwhere it is can be delivered.

But little wonder that a redistricting can give rise to so much rancor. There is just very little confidence in the candor and open conduct of the administration.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 27, 2008 10:02AM

Stu is not adamant against the 'discussion' of AP instead of IB. He is adamant against the implementation of the change.

The other SBMs know this however they still feel that South Lakes is under enrolled. They never considered any of the other components, IB vs AP, WF and Chantilly not really being under enrolled, the Navy issue etc. They made a commitment to getting SLHS more kids, then it unraveled from there. If you dont get it by now you should the SB knew about option one before they agreed to a study. SL PTA knew about it, surrounding neighbors knew about it. They made a promise and are now having a hard time backing down from it even faced with all the facts.

Stu, Kathy, and Janie and Storck are telling the new kids that this is par for the course. Phil, Brad, Ilryong, Tessie, are doing their best to avoid involvement. Liz needs a new school so one would think she would go against RD because afterall how can she support this one and not one in her neighborhood? However she looks at this differently, she sees the smaller arguments rather than the big picture. We all know where Tina and Jim stand but how much clout do they have on this board?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory ()
Date: February 27, 2008 10:21AM

Wow! Did you see this story about redistricting in the Fairfax Times today?!?!

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/school-board-vote-boundaries/

My favorite line is the first sentence of the second paragraph which reads: "Parents of students at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously opposed the redistricting..."

This isn't a school board member. Or an "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial. This is a NEWS story.

My faith in the press is restored!

So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this redistricting thread, how many of you are going to actually show up on Thursday night?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 27, 2008 10:35AM

FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! Did you see this story about redistricting
> in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
>
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
> l-board-vote-boundaries/
>
> My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> second paragraph which reads: "Parents of students
> at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously
> opposed the redistricting..."
>
> This isn't a school board member. Or an
> "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial. This
> is a NEWS story.
>
> My faith in the press is restored!
>
> So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> redistricting thread, how many of you are going to
> actually show up on Thursday night?

That is quite interesting. However Storck mentioned in the article that he wasn't worried about the legal action..said they will be successful. What does the hell does that mean? Has there ever been formal documents to study South Lakes and come up with alternatives before deciding to let's do the redistricting?
They should look at the Marshall redistricting and where Marshall stands now as an example.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Unanimous ()
Date: February 27, 2008 11:01AM

FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! Did you see this story about redistricting
> in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
>
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
> l-board-vote-boundaries/
>
> My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> second paragraph which reads: "Parents of students
> at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously
> opposed the redistricting..."
>
> This isn't a school board member. Or an
> "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial. This
> is a NEWS story.
>
> My faith in the press is restored!
>
> So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> redistricting thread, how many of you are going to
> actually show up on Thursday night?

Look up the term "Unanimous." I suppose this reporter knows that 12,000 families agreed. Sloppy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Nearly Unanimous ()
Date: February 27, 2008 11:22AM

The quote was "nearly unanimous". I think we can agree on that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: It just ain't so ()
Date: February 27, 2008 11:48AM

FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! Did you see this story about redistricting
> in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
>
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
> l-board-vote-boundaries/
>
> My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> second paragraph which reads: "Parents of students
> at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously
> opposed the redistricting..."
>
> This isn't a school board member. Or an
> "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial. This
> is a NEWS story.
>
> My faith in the press is restored!
>
> So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> redistricting thread, how many of you are going to
> actually show up on Thursday night?


WOW - real balanced, and FALSE:
Times article claims near unanimous opposition to RD by the Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly, Herndon and Westfield. This is just not so.

Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record, that they are for the current staff proposal (see minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)
Fact: Most of the parents in these respective high schools (other than those from the elementary schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills, Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent and pretty much absent from the debate, in fact, prompting Tina Hone to congratulate the one Westfields mom who came to the public hearing on Feb. 9 and comment that she has advised that the "quiet" ones need to be heard. You seem to confuse the opposition of the few vocal - with the silent majority of the many, which frankly appear not to care too much one way or another.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen's 1000 opinions ()
Date: February 27, 2008 11:53AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TimeToThrowOutIBFromSL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SL is doodie Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I hope the RD passes. Then the Fox Mill and
> > > Floris kids can join with the FRM and ESOL
> kids
> > to
> > > kick the snot out of the IB kids. It will be
> > > great!
> >
> > If the RD happens, then there will be 700 new
> > parents that will be asking to remove IB and
> put
> > AP - Will be interesting to see Bruce Butlers
> > response to that..
>
> It won't happen. First, about 150 students a year
> will be sent to South Lakes. Of those, they can
> expect 50 to 75 to actually show up. Those few
> parents won't have any say in the academic
> programs at South Lakes. PLUS, SL will make up
> excuses to keep the program they want, IB. During
> this budget crunch, for the next several years, it
> will be too expensive to train teachers to teach
> AP. PLUS, many, if not most of the people at
> South Lakes and in Reston, like IB. Even if South
> Lakes gets a few hundred new families, they won't
> control what is taught at South Lakes. Bruce
> Butler can't tell all those teachers that they
> have to go to school in the summer to train and
> qualify to teach AP, nor would he. And there
> won't be any money for AP training for teachers.
> South Lakes is stuck with IB for the foreseeable
> future. Sorry. :(

Neen, you sure seem to have an opinioin about everything and everybody. And while you accuse others of passing judgement on whats better for their own children you seem to be doing the same thing.

You seem to be living on and for this board. I wish I could have the time and money to be able to afford to do this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Pop ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:05PM

It just ain't so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow! Did you see this story about
> redistricting
> > in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
> >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
>
> > l-board-vote-boundaries/
> >
> > My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> > second paragraph which reads: "Parents of
> students
> > at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> > Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously
> > opposed the redistricting..."
> >
> > This isn't a school board member. Or an
> > "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial.
> This
> > is a NEWS story.
> >
> > My faith in the press is restored!
> >
> > So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> > redistricting thread, how many of you are going
> to
> > actually show up on Thursday night?
>
>
> WOW - real balanced, and FALSE:
> Times article claims near unanimous opposition to
> RD by the Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly,
> Herndon and Westfield. This is just not so.
>
> Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record, that
> they are for the current staff proposal (see
> minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)
> Fact: Most of the parents in these respective high
> schools (other than those from the elementary
> schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills,
> Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent and
> pretty much absent from the debate, in fact,
> prompting Tina Hone to congratulate the one
> Westfields mom who came to the public hearing on
> Feb. 9 and comment that she has advised that the
> "quiet" ones need to be heard. You seem to
> confuse the opposition of the few vocal - with the
> silent majority of the many, which frankly appear
> not to care too much one way or another.



FACT: You live in a BUBBLE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: It just ain't so ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:08PM

Pop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It just ain't so Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Wow! Did you see this story about
> > redistricting
> > > in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
>
> >
> > > l-board-vote-boundaries/
> > >
> > > My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> > > second paragraph which reads: "Parents of
> > students
> > > at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> > > Westfield high schools have nearly
> unanimously
> > > opposed the redistricting..."
> > >
> > > This isn't a school board member. Or an
> > > "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial.
> > This
> > > is a NEWS story.
> > >
> > > My faith in the press is restored!
> > >
> > > So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> > > redistricting thread, how many of you are
> going
> > to
> > > actually show up on Thursday night?
> >
> >
> > WOW - real balanced, and FALSE:
> > Times article claims near unanimous opposition
> to
> > RD by the Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly,
> > Herndon and Westfield. This is just not so.
> >
> > Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record,
> that
> > they are for the current staff proposal (see
> > minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)
> > Fact: Most of the parents in these respective
> high
> > schools (other than those from the elementary
> > schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills,
> > Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent
> and
> > pretty much absent from the debate, in fact,
> > prompting Tina Hone to congratulate the one
> > Westfields mom who came to the public hearing
> on
> > Feb. 9 and comment that she has advised that
> the
> > "quiet" ones need to be heard. You seem to
> > confuse the opposition of the few vocal - with
> the
> > silent majority of the many, which frankly
> appear
> > not to care too much one way or another.
>
>
>
> FACT: You live in a BUBBLE.


At least it's a REAL bubble

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: listen to the people affected ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:13PM

It just ain't so Wrote:

> Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record, that
> they are for the current staff proposal (see
> minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)

That's because it doesn't affect them!
Herndon parents turned out en mass at the 3rd public meeting to ensure that the ONE proposal which didn't affect them went through

They were definitely against anything that might affect them!!

As the only 'island' person in my room - it was very clear who they were planning to throw under the bus




> Fact: Most of the parents in these respective high
> schools (other than those from the elementary
> schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills,
> Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent and
> pretty much absent from the debate,

Of course its been the people affected who have been vocal and they have been d**n nearly unanimous

attempting to co-opt people who are not affected in order to claim that the affected should be 'drowned out by silence is real desperation


Your silent majority are rightly silent BECAUSE THEY"RE NOT AFFECTED - its like saying Loudon would have voted for RD or Kentucky

How about listening to the people who will be affected and have 'nearly unanimously' said NO!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: It just ain't so ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:23PM

listen to the people affected Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It just ain't so Wrote:
>
> > Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record,
> that
> > they are for the current staff proposal (see
> > minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)
>
> That's because it doesn't affect them!
> Herndon parents turned out en mass at the 3rd
> public meeting to ensure that the ONE proposal
> which didn't affect them went through
>
> They were definitely against anything that might
> affect them!!
>
> As the only 'island' person in my room - it was
> very clear who they were planning to throw under
> the bus
>
>
>
>
> > Fact: Most of the parents in these respective
> high
> > schools (other than those from the elementary
> > schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills,
> > Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent
> and
> > pretty much absent from the debate,
>
> Of course its been the people affected who have
> been vocal and they have been d**n nearly
> unanimous
>
> attempting to co-opt people who are not affected
> in order to claim that the affected should be
> 'drowned out by silence is real desperation
>
>
> Your silent majority are rightly silent BECAUSE
> THEY"RE NOT AFFECTED - its like saying Loudon
> would have voted for RD or Kentucky
>
> How about listening to the people who will be
> affected and have 'nearly unanimously' said NO!


I have no objection to your statements and I agree that your points are correct. You have every right and obligation to your kids to speak up just as those pro-RD have to their kids

HOWEVER, I do object to the statement made by a NEWSPERSON, which is in fact not correct - as someone mentioned before it is sloppy journalism.

It should have stated that those affected in the four or five schools are nearly unaninimous in their opposition, just as those affected mostly on the SLHS side are nearly unaninimous in their desire for RD. It paints a biased picture, and an objective and neutral person would be hard pressed to draw an unbiased opinion based on the article.

That's all.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Get your facts right ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:23PM

It just ain't so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow! Did you see this story about
> redistricting
> > in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
> >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
>
> > l-board-vote-boundaries/
> >
> > My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> > second paragraph which reads: "Parents of
> students
> > at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> > Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously
> > opposed the redistricting..."
> >
> > This isn't a school board member. Or an
> > "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial.
> This
> > is a NEWS story.
> >
> > My faith in the press is restored!
> >
> > So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> > redistricting thread, how many of you are going
> to
> > actually show up on Thursday night?
>
>
> WOW - real balanced, and FALSE:
> Times article claims near unanimous opposition to
> RD by the Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly,
> Herndon and Westfield. This is just not so.
>
> Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record, that
> they are for the current staff proposal (see
> minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)

Yes, it is true that Herndon is for any RD plan that does not touch them.

> Fact: Most of the parents in these respective high
> schools (other than those from the elementary
> schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills,
> Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent and
> pretty much absent from the debate, in fact,
> prompting Tina Hone to congratulate the one
> Westfields mom who came to the public hearing on
> Feb. 9 and comment that she has advised that the
> "quiet" ones need to be heard. You seem to
> confuse the opposition of the few vocal - with the
> silent majority of the many, which frankly appear
> not to care too much one way or another.

You are making reference to Tina Hone's comments to Laura Flynn, the VA Run PTSA Political Outreach Committee chair who sent an email to VA Run PTSA members urging them to speak up about overcrowding at Westfield. Interestingly, Ms. Flynn was unable to get anyone other than herself to testify in the hearings. Tina Hone's comments in the public hearing to Ms Flynn reflected the fact that no one had to date complained about overcrowding at Westfield -- and that she appreciated Ms. Flynn coming forward to speak.

The fact that Ms. Flynn herself has no students at Westfield, combined with the fact that she failed to get other Westfield parents to speak in support of her position is indeed an indication that overcrowding is NOT a real issue.

So your post really has the opposite impact that you intended. If you took the time to listen to the last public hearing, only one individual spoke out in support of RD during the entire 6.5 hour proceeding. For that session, "nearly unanimous opposition" would certainly be an accurate characterization.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: listen to the people affected ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:26PM

It just ain't so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It should have stated that those affected in the
> four or five schools are nearly unaninimous in
> their opposition, just as those affected mostly on
> the SLHS side are nearly unaninimous in their
> desire for RD. It paints a biased picture, and an
> objective and neutral person would be hard pressed
> to draw an unbiased opinion based on the article.
>
>
> That's all.

That's like saying the invasion of Poland was okay because the German public said it was and the Russians were playing their own game

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: here is an idea ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:30PM

Baffled Wrote:
>
> That is quite interesting. However Storck
> mentioned in the article that he wasn't worried
> about the legal action..said they will be
> successful. What does the hell does that mean?
> Has there ever been formal documents to study
> South Lakes and come up with alternatives before
> deciding to let's do the redistricting?
> They should look at the Marshall redistricting and
> where Marshall stands now as an example.


Storck has reason to be confident...the courts in Virginia grant great deference to school Boards. A legal challenge will have a hard time. But there is still some chance that a legal challenge will prevail. It could at least delay implementation until next year.

Opponents of RD should be contributing to the Fairfax CAPS legal fund, or some other legal fund, as litigation is never cheap. If you really care, then contribute. Many small contributions will add up nicely.

Proponents of RD can sit back and let their taxpayer $$ pay for the defense.

Also, it may be possible to sue Stu Gibson or the head of the SL PTA in their personal capacity, and maybe a few others. I know people are looking at such a suit. If sued in their personal capacity, it is possible that the insurance from the SB or PTA would not cover them. An examploe of a cause of action would be the PTA president's authorizing the SL PTA to post information on their website in favor of the RD contrary to the Fairfax County PTA guidelines. Thus, they would have to defend the suit out of their own pockets. That could be interesting. Anyone got good examples for how Stu or others have acted outside the bounds of their authority. Maybe making promises to the SL PTA that are outside of normal SB procedures? The threshold for a suit that is not a mere nuisance, and thereby sanctionable, is pretty low.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Free count(r)y ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:31PM

Get your facts right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It just ain't so Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Wow! Did you see this story about
> > redistricting
> > > in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
>
> >
> > > l-board-vote-boundaries/
> > >
> > > My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> > > second paragraph which reads: "Parents of
> > students
> > > at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> > > Westfield high schools have nearly
> unanimously
> > > opposed the redistricting..."
> > >
> > > This isn't a school board member. Or an
> > > "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial.
> > This
> > > is a NEWS story.
> > >
> > > My faith in the press is restored!
> > >
> > > So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> > > redistricting thread, how many of you are
> going
> > to
> > > actually show up on Thursday night?
> >
> >
> > WOW - real balanced, and FALSE:
> > Times article claims near unanimous opposition
> to
> > RD by the Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly,
> > Herndon and Westfield. This is just not so.
> >
> > Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record,
> that
> > they are for the current staff proposal (see
> > minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)
>
> Yes, it is true that Herndon is for any RD plan
> that does not touch them.
>
> > Fact: Most of the parents in these respective
> high
> > schools (other than those from the elementary
> > schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills,
> > Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent
> and
> > pretty much absent from the debate, in fact,
> > prompting Tina Hone to congratulate the one
> > Westfields mom who came to the public hearing
> on
> > Feb. 9 and comment that she has advised that
> the
> > "quiet" ones need to be heard. You seem to
> > confuse the opposition of the few vocal - with
> the
> > silent majority of the many, which frankly
> appear
> > not to care too much one way or another.
>
> You are making reference to Tina Hone's comments
> to Laura Flynn, the VA Run PTSA Political Outreach
> Committee chair who sent an email to VA Run PTSA
> members urging them to speak up about overcrowding
> at Westfield. Interestingly, Ms. Flynn was unable
> to get anyone other than herself to testify in the
> hearings. Tina Hone's comments in the public
> hearing to Ms Flynn reflected the fact that no one
> had to date complained about overcrowding at
> Westfield -- and that she appreciated Ms. Flynn
> coming forward to speak.
>
> The fact that Ms. Flynn herself has no students at
> Westfield, combined with the fact that she failed
> to get other Westfield parents to speak in support
> of her position is indeed an indication that
> overcrowding is NOT a real issue.
>
> So your post really has the opposite impact that
> you intended. If you took the time to listen to
> the last public hearing, only one individual spoke
> out in support of RD during the entire 6.5 hour
> proceeding. For that session, "nearly unanimous
> opposition" would certainly be an accurate
> characteriz

Of course it was, because it gave Fairfax CAPS another soapbox to reiterate the same issues that had already been stated almost verbatim per script many times before - and incidentally addressing issues that were repetitive from the past and not part of the agenda (AP vs IB), but that those folks chose to ignore on purpose.


But that's ok. They have every right to do so. After all it is a free country

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ?huh? ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:33PM

listen to the people affected Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It just ain't so Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > It should have stated that those affected in
> the
> > four or five schools are nearly unaninimous in
> > their opposition, just as those affected mostly
> on
> > the SLHS side are nearly unaninimous in their
> > desire for RD. It paints a biased picture, and
> an
> > objective and neutral person would be hard
> pressed
> > to draw an unbiased opinion based on the
> article.
> >
> >
> > That's all.
>
> That's like saying the invasion of Poland was okay
> because the German public said it was and the
> Russians were playing their own game


Say what?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Not following your logic ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:39PM

"Of course it was, because it gave Fairfax CAPS another soapbox to reiterate the same issues that had already been stated almost verbatim per script many times before - and incidentally addressing issues that were repetitive from the past and not part of the agenda (AP vs IB), but that those folks chose to ignore on purpose.


But that's ok. They have every right to do so. After all it is a free country"

It's apparent that you don't like anyone speaking against your position. But your statement above is a lot more of a non sequitur than anything said by the trapped Floris community members relative to the meeting "topics".

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Just don't move us, move others, is t ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:53PM

It's so sad that many people will be OK and support one option if you don't move us and just move somebody else. Throw somebody else to save themself is the only way to go. Is that right?? I don't blame any of them, you can't save the world, can you? just save yourself. I am OK with it. I understand what you are doing.


Herndon HS is OK if they won't be touched, of course they supoort the option don't touch them. McNair will be OK, they will support the option that just don't move them. OakHill will again if they been split because they shouldn't be split, So it's ok to split Fox Mill or Floriis or Madison island. Does anybody find logic behind all there?

I don'y mind people saying their reasons that they shouldn't be moved, all their reasons are what Fox Mill and Floris and Madison island(in fact not island) people are saying.

Except SL people are OK with moving anybody except just don't give them McNair students.

People, please stop saying that somebody support RD, let's check where they are from. They will against this RD if they will be impact. That's the truth.

I suggest close South Lakes High school, send their students to nearby schools, Langley HS, Herndon HS, Oakton, WestFiled HS. They are the only people doesn't have a problem of watching students be moved around, they are the best people of this RD process, let's move all of their students out of SLHS and put them in nearby any High school, all of them are better than SLHS, their students will have better future, they will be fine. That's what SL people are telling everybody else that their kids will do fine, same for their kids.

Anybody agree with me? That RD process definately will not be hard like this one.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FACTS ()
Date: February 27, 2008 12:55PM

I believe if you are unhappy with the current school board, we need to get ready now for the next election. We need new canidates who will run in 2011 and start campaigns now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Coward ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:02PM

here is an idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> >
> > That is quite interesting. However Storck
> > mentioned in the article that he wasn't worried
> > about the legal action..said they will be
> > successful. What does the hell does that mean?
>
> > Has there ever been formal documents to study
> > South Lakes and come up with alternatives
> before
> > deciding to let's do the redistricting?
> > They should look at the Marshall redistricting
> and
> > where Marshall stands now as an example.
>
>
> Storck has reason to be confident...the courts in
> Virginia grant great deference to school Boards.
> A legal challenge will have a hard time. But
> there is still some chance that a legal challenge
> will prevail. It could at least delay
> implementation until next year.
>
> Opponents of RD should be contributing to the
> Fairfax CAPS legal fund, or some other legal fund,
> as litigation is never cheap. If you really care,
> then contribute. Many small contributions will
> add up nicely.
>
> Proponents of RD can sit back and let their
> taxpayer $$ pay for the defense.
>
> Also, it may be possible to sue Stu Gibson or the
> head of the SL PTA in their personal capacity, and
> maybe a few others. I know people are looking at
> such a suit. If sued in their personal capacity,
> it is possible that the insurance from the SB or
> PTA would not cover them. An examploe of a cause
> of action would be the PTA president's authorizing
> the SL PTA to post information on their website in
> favor of the RD contrary to the Fairfax County PTA
> guidelines. Thus, they would have to defend the
> suit out of their own pockets. That could be
> interesting. Anyone got good examples for how
> Stu or others have acted outside the bounds of
> their authority. Maybe making promises to the SL
> PTA that are outside of normal SB procedures? The
> threshold for a suit that is not a mere nuisance,
> and thereby sanctionable, is pretty low.

"I know people..." Riiiight! In threatening individuals like this, declare who you are. Or are you a coward?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Nearly Unanimous ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:07PM

You know what is so great about the Fairfax Times story, besides the fact that is not written by the Connection? It is that it has obviously hit the nerve of the pro RDs.

Everyone has put up with one Connection story after another siding with SL PTSA. For a while we didnt get it, until we found out that Terri Jennings was on staff.

In this case you have a reporter that has provided quotes from PRO RD board members and anti RD board members. Maybe this reporter realized that Terri, Maria, Ericka and Caroline have been over exposed by the media. Their quotes have become redundant and their names are used over and over again.

Just Google them along with South Lakes and see how many pages of quotes you get.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Huh? ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:08PM

It just ain't so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FairfaxTimesTellsTheStory Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow! Did you see this story about
> redistricting
> > in the Fairfax Times today?!?!
> >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/feb/26/schoo
>
> > l-board-vote-boundaries/
> >
> > My favorite line is the first sentence of the
> > second paragraph which reads: "Parents of
> students
> > at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and
> > Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously
> > opposed the redistricting..."
> >
> > This isn't a school board member. Or an
> > "impartial" PTA president. Or an editorial.
> This
> > is a NEWS story.
> >
> > My faith in the press is restored!
> >
> > So, after 237 pages of back and forth on this
> > redistricting thread, how many of you are going
> to
> > actually show up on Thursday night?
>
>
> WOW - real balanced, and FALSE:
> Times article claims near unanimous opposition to
> RD by the Oakton, Madison, Herndon, Chantilly,
> Herndon and Westfield. This is just not so.
>
> Fact: Herndon PTA has stated for the record, that
> they are for the current staff proposal (see
> minutes of the Feb. 9 board meeting)
> Fact: Most of the parents in these respective high
> schools (other than those from the elementary
> schools directly affected Floris, Fox Mills,
> Madison Island and Navy) have been ambivalent and
> pretty much absent from the debate, in fact,
> prompting Tina Hone to congratulate the one
> Westfields mom who came to the public hearing on
> Feb. 9 and comment that she has advised that the
> "quiet" ones need to be heard. You seem to
> confuse the opposition of the few vocal - with the
> silent majority of the many, which frankly appear
> not to care too much one way or another.


Simply not true. Any communities that were in the "hotzone" back in November cared passionately that there be no redistricting (because it might affect them). There were more than 3000 people at each of those first 2 town meetings and EVERYBODY except SL IB was against it.

When Herndon PTA thought they might lose the astronauts in the RD, they cared a lot. The fact that people applaud an activity that doesn't affect them directly--but hurts others in the community--is nothing for those groups to be proud of. The fact that Herndon PTA supports the current plan says a lot about the Herndon PTA--and it's not good. (And, for the record, I an a Fox Mill parent (anti RD) and I did NOT support moving the astronauts in the orig option 4, even though it kept FM at Oakton.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:11PM

Young Scholars was started by Carol Horn before she became the FCPS GT Coordinator, over six years ago. I believe the first school with a Young Scholars program was Mt. Eagle ES, or at least that was what GTAC members were told in a presentation years ago.

Young Scholars has expanded to more FCPS schools over the years, and GT resource teachers and GT program staff spend a lot of their time on the Young Scholars program. There have been several presentations and many discussions about the Young Scholars program at GTAC meetings over the past half a dozen years. Perhaps Neen is recalling one of the staff statements during those meetings.

Your comment about the FCPS approved math textbooks is consistent with comments by many good teachers I've known. How unfortunate for the kids.


AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you know a Young Scholar was accepted? How
> long has that program been in existence? I have
> only heard of it for a few years, and it is
> targeted to young ES students, right?
>
> I do think something needs to be done at the ES
> level to assist more students, who might end being
> interested and qualified for TJ. In particular
> math instruction for all students needs to be
> beefed up. When I first started teaching, after
> years of another career, I was appalled to see the
> math textbooks used. I found an old textbook, a
> very basic text, and used that with my students
> rather than the hodgepodge book I had been told to
> use. The required text had lots of pretty
> pictures, with tons of information, but very
> little math. My 4 year old was doing more math in
> his head, than these third graders were requested
> to learn. I haven't taught math in an ES in
> sometime, but I hear the books remain the same.
> Without beefing up ES math, students won't get
> into Algebra in a timely fashion, and will instead
> have essentially the same math concepts taught
> between 6th-8th grade.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FrostPesce ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:28PM

Nearly Unanimous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know what is so great about the Fairfax Times
> story, besides the fact that is not written by the
> Connection? It is that it has obviously hit the
> nerve of the pro RDs.
>
> Everyone has put up with one Connection story
> after another siding with SL PTSA. For a while we
> didnt get it, until we found out that Terri
> Jennings was on staff.
>
> In this case you have a reporter that has provided
> quotes from PRO RD board members and anti RD board
> members. Maybe this reporter realized that Terri,
> Maria, Ericka and Caroline have been over exposed
> by the media. Their quotes have become redundant
> and their names are used over and over again.
>
> Just Google them along with South Lakes and see
> how many pages of quotes you get.


Probably just as many as you get from Pesce and Frost. Le this end tomorrow PLEASE. one way or another. i think most are tired

Options: ReplyQuote
Lets face it
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:42PM

Lets face it.

During the third meeting, everyone was out there to protect their turf. When option 5 came, all the communities that "escaped"' redistricting stepped back and were having fun watching the "affected" communities slog over RD.

What does that tell you?

a) No one wants to be redistricted. This might tell you that they don't like the program at SL or don't like SL itself because of its ranking.

b) The only reason we are even having this fiasco is because of Stu Gibson and his representation only in SL community. He does not want to switch to AP, does not want to have an IB magnet school and is bent on bringing in warm bodies.

Its all about Stu Gibson.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Google Wars ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:52PM

Try these, while you're at it:

Nick Pesce
Jay Frost
Lisa Capalbo

Stacy Gullette

John Halacy 

Henry Huang 

Cynthia Fry

(Public domain news articles, and loads of opinion.)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Let it be over soon ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:54PM

Google Wars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Try these, while you're at it:
>
> Nick Pesce
> Jay Frost
> Lisa Capalbo

> Stacy Gullette

> John Halacy 

> Henry Huang 

> Cynthia Fry
>

LOL
> (Public domain news articles, and loads of
> opinion.)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The end? ()
Date: February 27, 2008 01:56PM

FrostPesce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nearly Unanimous Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You know what is so great about the Fairfax
> Times
> > story, besides the fact that is not written by
> the
> > Connection? It is that it has obviously hit
> the
> > nerve of the pro RDs.
> >
> > Everyone has put up with one Connection story
> > after another siding with SL PTSA. For a while
> we
> > didnt get it, until we found out that Terri
> > Jennings was on staff.
> >
> > In this case you have a reporter that has
> provided
> > quotes from PRO RD board members and anti RD
> board
> > members. Maybe this reporter realized that
> Terri,
> > Maria, Ericka and Caroline have been over
> exposed
> > by the media. Their quotes have become
> redundant
> > and their names are used over and over again.
> >
> > Just Google them along with South Lakes and see
> > how many pages of quotes you get.
>
>
> Probably just as many as you get from Pesce and
> Frost. Le this end tomorrow PLEASE. one way or
> another. i think most are tired


I am also tired. It will only end tomorrow, if the Board votes down the RD.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: done deal ()
Date: February 27, 2008 02:06PM

The end? Wrote:
-
> I am also tired. It will only end tomorrow, if the
> Board votes down the RD.


Which they won't - its a stitch-up

The only question is whether they'll try a scam to prevent people pupil placing out to staunch the flow

They never had any intention of listening to anyone or taking any account of the people affected.

Janie has behaved particularly poorly by throwing her own people under someone else's bus.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Interesting idea ()
Date: February 27, 2008 02:09PM

Coward Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> here is an idea Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Baffled Wrote:
> > >
> > > That is quite interesting. However Storck
> > > mentioned in the article that he wasn't
> worried
> > > about the legal action..said they will be
> > > successful. What does the hell does that
> mean?
> >
> > > Has there ever been formal documents to study
> > > South Lakes and come up with alternatives
> > before
> > > deciding to let's do the redistricting?
> > > They should look at the Marshall
> redistricting
> > and
> > > where Marshall stands now as an example.
> >
> >
> > Storck has reason to be confident...the courts
> in
> > Virginia grant great deference to school Boards.
>
> > A legal challenge will have a hard time. But
> > there is still some chance that a legal
> challenge
> > will prevail. It could at least delay
> > implementation until next year.
> >
> > Opponents of RD should be contributing to the
> > Fairfax CAPS legal fund, or some other legal
> fund,
> > as litigation is never cheap. If you really
> care,
> > then contribute. Many small contributions will
> > add up nicely.
> >
> > Proponents of RD can sit back and let their
> > taxpayer $$ pay for the defense.
> >
> > Also, it may be possible to sue Stu Gibson or
> the
> > head of the SL PTA in their personal capacity,
> and
> > maybe a few others. I know people are looking
> at
> > such a suit. If sued in their personal
> capacity,
> > it is possible that the insurance from the SB
> or
> > PTA would not cover them. An examploe of a
> cause
> > of action would be the PTA president's
> authorizing
> > the SL PTA to post information on their website
> in
> > favor of the RD contrary to the Fairfax County
> PTA
> > guidelines. Thus, they would have to defend
> the
> > suit out of their own pockets. That could be
> > interesting. Anyone got good examples for how
> > Stu or others have acted outside the bounds of
> > their authority. Maybe making promises to the
> SL
> > PTA that are outside of normal SB procedures?
> The
> > threshold for a suit that is not a mere
> nuisance,
> > and thereby sanctionable, is pretty low.
>
> "I know people..." Riiiight! In threatening
> individuals like this, declare who you are. Or are
> you a coward?


What an interesting idea! There appears to be a lot of behind the scenes dealings between the SLPTA and Mr. G. Hmmmm. Perhaps worth a few legal dollars to pursue? If nothing improper has gone on, then those folks have nothing to worry about.

Coward, are you suggesting that you have to know people to sue a member of the school board (or anyone else for that matter?) We don't have to "know people" to seek justice in the court in this country. Also, why are you demanding that "here's an idea" declare himself? I don't see your optional email listed here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Will not vote for Democrats! ()
Date: February 27, 2008 02:13PM

We will keep fighting if RD goes through.

We are tired but we will not give up. Will stop if the SB votes down the RD.

The only loser will be FCPS and Democrats, I will not vote for any current Democrat SBMS in the future based on how they vote on this RD, including next year's president, for having that kind of school board members in the party, I won't even trust them to rule the country. Will I? Unless Democrats clean up their party member first!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 27, 2008 02:51PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> ... quit talking like you know anything about
> what South Lakes wants. You aren't there, you
> don't know. As it turns out, the vast majority of
> people I talk are interested in AP. Most with
> current high schoolers don't have a strong like or
> dislike of IB, they just live with it. If the
> chance to get AP at South Lakes comes up, I think
> many parents would welcome it. ...

You may be right.

May I ask why it took this RD mess to get "the vast majority of people I talk [to who] are interested in AP" to become informed and concerned about it?

Has it been a matter of younger families not knowing or caring about high school programs and by the time they get into it it is "too late" for them to care so "they just live with it"?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Googlem ()
Date: February 27, 2008 02:53PM

I tried them with the names you provided and the names previously provided. I also used the word boundary here is what I got as they relate to news coverage only for example Nick has hits under CAPs site and Maria under SL PTA, those I did not count:

Nick Pesce 3 hits 1 WTOP, 1 Ffx Times 1 Post
Jay Frost 2 hits 1 observer 1 Ffx times
Lisa Capalbo 1 Connection
Stacy Gullette 1 Observer
John Halacy 1 Post
Henry Huang 0 hits
Cynthia Fry 1 Observer
Total 9 hits 7 Names

Ericka 3 hits Observer,Post, NBC 4
Maria 6 hits Observer,Extra Examiner,Connection, Connection, NBC 4, DC Examiner
Terry 4 hits 3 Connections and 1 Gazette
Caroline 2 Hits 1 Connection 1 Post
Total 15 Hits 4 people

OVER EXPOSED that is all there is to it. Too many quotes too few people this is the explanation for why the Ffx Times reporter did not call you. By the way all though last names were not used in original post, I am pretty clear on what they are. I left them off in order to ensure annonymity:) Its the right thing to do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 27, 2008 02:58PM

Googlem Wrote:
> I tried them with the names you provided and the
> names previously provided. I also used the word
> boundary here is what I got as they relate to news
> coverage only for example Nick has hits under CAPs
> site and Maria under SL PTA, those I did not
> count:
>
> Nick Pesce 3 hits 1 WTOP, 1 Ffx Times 1 Post
> Jay Frost 2 hits 1 observer 1 Ffx times
> Lisa Capalbo 1 Connection
> Stacy Gullette 1 Observer
> John Halacy 1 Post
> Henry Huang 0 hits
> Cynthia Fry 1 Observer
> Total 9 hits 7 Names
>
> Ericka 3 hits Observer,Post, NBC 4
> Maria 6 hits Observer,Extra Examiner,Connection,
> Connection, NBC 4, DC Examiner
> Terry 4 hits 3 Connections and 1 Gazette
> Caroline 2 Hits 1 Connection 1 Post
> Total 15 Hits 4 people
>
> OVER EXPOSED that is all there is to it. Too many
> quotes too few people this is the explanation for
> why the Ffx Times reporter did not call you. By
> the way all though last names were not used in
> original post, I am pretty clear on what they are.
> I left them off in order to ensure annonymity:)
> Its the right thing to do.

------------
Nice bit of research. Thank you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: googlem squared ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:02PM

Googlem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried them with the names you provided and the
> names previously provided. I also used the word
> boundary here is what I got as they relate to news
> coverage only for example Nick has hits under CAPs
> site and Maria under SL PTA, those I did not
> count:
>
> Nick Pesce 3 hits 1 WTOP, 1 Ffx Times 1 Post
> Jay Frost 2 hits 1 observer 1 Ffx times
> Lisa Capalbo 1 Connection
> Stacy Gullette 1 Observer
> John Halacy 1 Post
> Henry Huang 0 hits
> Cynthia Fry 1 Observer
> Total 9 hits 7 Names
>
> Ericka 3 hits Observer,Post, NBC 4
> Maria 6 hits Observer,Extra Examiner,Connection,
> Connection, NBC 4, DC Examiner
> Terry 4 hits 3 Connections and 1 Gazette
> Caroline 2 Hits 1 Connection 1 Post
> Total 15 Hits 4 people
>
> OVER EXPOSED that is all there is to it. Too many
> quotes too few people this is the explanation for
> why the Ffx Times reporter did not call you. By
> the way all though last names were not used in
> original post, I am pretty clear on what they are.
> I left them off in order to ensure annonymity:)
> Its the right thing to do.


Add Maryclaire in there too while you are at it: 3 hits wtop, fairfax times, post

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HooTribe ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:03PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > ... quit talking like you know anything about
> > what South Lakes wants. You aren't there, you
> > don't know. As it turns out, the vast majority
> of
> > people I talk are interested in AP. Most with
> > current high schoolers don't have a strong like
> or
> > dislike of IB, they just live with it. If the
> > chance to get AP at South Lakes comes up, I
> think
> > many parents would welcome it. ...
>
> You may be right.
>
> May I ask why it took this RD mess to get "the
> vast majority of people I talk are interested in
> AP" to become informed and concerned about it?
>
> Has it been a matter of younger families not
> knowing or caring about high school programs and
> by the time they get into it it is "too late" for
> them to care so "they just live with it"?


I can't speak for those that are currently at SL, but I am a future SL parent that wants AP, and would not have been as focused on this if it were not for the RD.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: googlem x2 ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:04PM

Googlem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried them with the names you provided and the
> names previously provided. I also used the word
> boundary here is what I got as they relate to news
> coverage only for example Nick has hits under CAPs
> site and Maria under SL PTA, those I did not
> count:
>
> Nick Pesce 3 hits 1 WTOP, 1 Ffx Times 1 Post
> Jay Frost 2 hits 1 observer 1 Ffx times
> Lisa Capalbo 1 Connection

Add Maryclaire in there too while you are at it: 3 hits wtop, fairfax times, post
> Stacy Gullette 1 Observer
> John Halacy 1 Post
> Henry Huang 0 hits
> Cynthia Fry 1 Observer
> Total 9 hits 7 Names
>
> Ericka 3 hits Observer,Post, NBC 4
> Maria 6 hits Observer,Extra Examiner,Connection,
> Connection, NBC 4, DC Examiner
> Terry 4 hits 3 Connections and 1 Gazette
> Caroline 2 Hits 1 Connection 1 Post
> Total 15 Hits 4 people
>
> OVER EXPOSED that is all there is to it. Too many
> quotes too few people this is the explanation for
> why the Ffx Times reporter did not call you. By
> the way all though last names were not used in
> original post, I am pretty clear on what they are.
> I left them off in order to ensure annonymity:)
> Its the right thing to do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Googlem ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:06PM

Well thank you. I would like to say I just threw it together but it has been a bit of a project for me.

I am thinking my collection may be of some value down the road. I like to think of it as a memoir of sorts, not of course in the autobiography sense.

Anyhow the number above is recent hits. The results are consistent going back to early last fall. A very VOCAL minority is represented in the press.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 27, 2008 03:07PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > ... quit talking like you know anything about
> > what South Lakes wants. You aren't there, you
> > don't know. As it turns out, the vast majority
> of
> > people I talk are interested in AP. Most with
> > current high schoolers don't have a strong like
> or
> > dislike of IB, they just live with it. If the
> > chance to get AP at South Lakes comes up, I
> think
> > many parents would welcome it. ...
>
> You may be right.
>
> May I ask why it took this RD mess to get "the
> vast majority of people I talk are interested in
> AP" to become informed and concerned about it?
>
> Has it been a matter of younger families not
> knowing or caring about high school programs and
> by the time they get into it it is "too late" for
> them to care so "they just live with it"?

On your last point, it probably is a matter of younger families not knowing about AP/IB. But also, once they get to high school and try IB, most find it to be not so bad. In fact it does have advantages, which I have talked about in the past. Also, many people are not rabidly trying to get the most credits they can for their kids. Whether we have IB or AP, I don't expect my kids to get credit for more than one or two courses, unless they do the diploma, which I am not going to push. I imagine this is like most people.

But, I think if people got the chance to find out more about both programs and found AP to be more flexible, or whatever other advantages it has, they would be likely to want to change. Especially if it helped South Lakes shake its bad image. I think the parents of South Lakes would very much like to engage the new communities and be willing to do alot to make them feel welcome.

Let me ask you a question. Did you know much about AP before your kids got to high school? Did you do a lot of research on it before getting to high school? I don't know about you, but I can barely keep up with what my three kids are doing this year, let alone worrying about the next few years.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Googlem ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:18PM

Attention other Googlems:

You miss the point. At best I can add one name Elizabeth to your list, for which by the way I turned up four hits at a glance.

My point is there are 4 or 5 of you total getting all the press. It would appear that you may even be seeking out press?

At any rate I bet you can find many many more names to add to your list who may have 1 hit each. You may find someone who is fairly active in the Anti RD movement with as many as 3, but the 4 or 5 of you cannot be topped.

It proves the VOCAL minority theory. They prove one more too but we'll save that for another time. Find me a dozen or so more PRO RD press quotes from people not on your list and not from Stu Gibson.

There is the challenge.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: elementarymydear ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:19PM

i'm guessing you don't have children in high school

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FYI ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:21PM

done deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The end? Wrote:
> -
> > I am also tired. It will only end tomorrow, if
> the
> > Board votes down the RD.
>
>
> Which they won't - its a stitch-up
>
> The only question is whether they'll try a scam to
> prevent people pupil placing out to staunch the
> flow
>
> They never had any intention of listening to
> anyone or taking any account of the people
> affected.
>
> Janie has behaved particularly poorly by throwing
> her own people under someone else's bus.

http://www.neighborhoodlink.com/pdf/neighnews/42371627/62805175/389534816.pdf

Winter 2006 planning for NO South Lakes

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: elementarymydear ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:23PM

> Let me ask you a question. Did you know much
> about AP before your kids got to high school? Did
> you do a lot of research on it before getting to
> high school? I don't know about you, but I can
> barely keep up with what my three kids are doing
> this year, let alone worrying about the next few
> years.


my guess is that you don't have children in high school and are not as concerned as i am when it comes to my children's education

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: randomness ()
Date: February 27, 2008 03:24PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:

> Let me ask you a question. Did you know much
> about AP before your kids got to high school? Did
> you do a lot of research on it before getting to
> high school? I don't know about you, but I can
> barely keep up with what my three kids are doing
> this year, let alone worrying about the next few
> years.


Which makes it all the more perplexing that FCPS runs parallel schemes at neighboring schools but doesn't really explain the difference to parents or allow them to chose evenly and fairly e.g. if you think the one not taught at your school is more appropriate, you have to PP and lose access to buses etc - which is a big thing if you both work as is the norm in FFX

It seems entirely random at the moment. The diploma sounds like a great magnet or default-expectation program, but having non-diploma default-expectation running randomly alongside AP schools is pretty odd - especially when which one you get depends on where the SB draws the chalk line this week.

It sounds from many postings as if some areas achieve very high IB-diploma rates (which suggests that most multi-AP students could achieve it with a bit of work) but no-one's explained why you would chose non-diploma IB as a default track

I can understand, at a time when we're questioning whether US education is sufficiently rigorous or challenging when compared with our global rivals, that there is an appeal to a globally recognized benchmark, but given the patchy acceptance by US universities, perhaps more attention should be placed on the universities to define what they need from graduating HS'ers rather than trying push-experiments from the bottom-up

its all very odd

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 27, 2008 03:45PM

elementarymydear Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Let me ask you a question. Did you know much
> > about AP before your kids got to high school?
> Did
> > you do a lot of research on it before getting
> to
> > high school? I don't know about you, but I can
> > barely keep up with what my three kids are
> doing
> > this year, let alone worrying about the next
> few
> > years.
>
>
> my guess is that you don't have children in high
> school and are not as concerned as i am when it
> comes to my children's education

You are obviously a much better person than I.

I don't have kids in high school but have a rising ninth grader and have heard mixed things about AP vs. IB. Some good some bad. Pros and cons. I tend not to look at the world in black and white and believe that my kids will do fine with either. But if AP has real advantages, I'd probably want to switch.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: pupil placing ()
Date: February 27, 2008 04:26PM

done deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The end? Wrote:
> -
> > I am also tired. It will only end tomorrow, if
> the
> > Board votes down the RD.
>
>
> Which they won't - its a stitch-up
>
> The only question is whether they'll try a scam to
> prevent people pupil placing out to staunch the
> flow
>
> They never had any intention of listening to
> anyone or taking any account of the people
> affected.
>
> Janie has behaved particularly poorly by throwing
> her own people under someone else's bus.


I am nervous about the pupil placing issue. I hear that Bruce Butler is asking for a meeting with any parents who show up with a form. What does that mean?
Also, if the board says it will put some AP classes in SL, will that mean that pupil placing for AP isn't an option anymore?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fiasco ()
Date: February 27, 2008 04:33PM

pupil placing Wrote:

> I am nervous about the pupil placing issue. I hear
> that Bruce Butler is asking for a meeting with any
> parents who show up with a form. What does that
> mean?
> Also, if the board says it will put some AP
> classes in SL, will that mean that pupil placing
> for AP isn't an option anymore?

it means they've screwed up and they know it

they're about to force families to go to a school they don't want to and they want to put barriers in the way of pupil placement in order to stop an exodus

by pursuing this fiasco, they've destroyed the reputation of SLHS and they're scrabbling to deal with the aftermath

get to know the at-large SB members, you'll need them (not that they've stood up for you so far)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: try and stop me ()
Date: February 27, 2008 04:39PM

fiasco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pupil placing Wrote:
>
> > I am nervous about the pupil placing issue. I
> hear
> > that Bruce Butler is asking for a meeting with
> any
> > parents who show up with a form. What does that
> > mean?
> > Also, if the board says it will put some AP
> > classes in SL, will that mean that pupil
> placing
> > for AP isn't an option anymore?
>
> it means they've screwed up and they know it
>
> they're about to force families to go to a school
> they don't want to and they want to put barriers
> in the way of pupil placement in order to stop an
> exodus
>
> by pursuing this fiasco, they've destroyed the
> reputation of SLHS and they're scrabbling to deal
> with the aftermath
>
> get to know the at-large SB members, you'll need
> them (not that they've stood up for you so far)


I think that if families that would have had the right to pupil place last year are denied the right to do it this year, or if obstacles are put in the way, then that plays right into the lawsuit. If any family has this experience, please tell CAPS. Are you reading this, school board and Mr. Butler? (no offense to Bruce Butler, and I undersatnd his wish to try to talk parents out of pupil placing out of SL, but the bottom line is I don't want to be held captive)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 27, 2008 04:44PM

Meeting with Bruce Butler will in no way keep you from Pupil Placing your child. He will talk to you about IB vs AP. He must I repeat must honor your wishes and forward your form. There is no barrier here.

He will tell you the same. He is in fact a very nice guy. Take it as an opportunity to show him you are not a narrow minded racist but a parent that is concerned about your child. He only knows what he has heard from people that desperately want this RD to go through.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 27, 2008 05:03PM

pupil placing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hear that Bruce Butler is asking for a meeting with any parents who show up with > a form. What does that mean?

At a SL PTSA mtg last fall, before AP pupil placing to avoid the RD became a cause celebre, Bruce said that he always met with everyone who sought pupil placing for AP, and even when he knew it really was for athletics (a favorite ploy of jock Dads), approved the transfer.

If you are determined to pupil place back to your kid's former base school, you'll probably have nothing to worry about.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: that's all well and good but... ()
Date: February 27, 2008 05:21PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
He is in fact a very
> nice guy.

I'm sure he is and that's all well and good but why has he stood by and let this farce unfold?

> He only knows
> what he has heard from people that desperately
> want this RD to go through.

So has he had his fingers in his ears? Has he avoided running the numbers and worked out how people would react?

If he's smart enough to be the turn-around principal (and he may well be), then he's smart enough to have worked all this out

He could have taken the outcome of the FIRST public meeting when it was clear that all of the affected communities were saying no-RD, gone to Stu and PTSA and said 'this is not the way to go'

There are few clean hands in this

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FACTS ()
Date: February 27, 2008 05:34PM

TO;

J.DALE AND THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BOARD 2/27/08

Since you will vote to redistrict South Lakes tomorrow due to being under capacity, you must do the same for all under capacity schools in the FCPS system.

The following schools will have the most empty seats in the year 2012.

The below numbers are from your CIP report and we only listed schools that have more then 100 empty seats by 2012.

HERNDON --- 299

FALLS CHURCH --- 771

STUART --- 124

HAYFIELD --- 100

MOUNT VERNON --- 836

WEST POTOMAC --- 208

LEE --- 205

LAKE BRADDOCK --- 502

ROBINSON --- 211

WEST SPRINGFIELD --- 128

OAKTON --- 100

SOUTH LAKES --- 800

WESTFIELD --- 190 C8

Based on the below story and the above numbers, we request that you must perform boundary studies for all schools that are under capacity.

REMEMBER AS A SCHOOL BOARD YOU MUST BE FAIR TO ALL STUDENTS AND TAXPAYERS IN FAIRFAX COUNTY. YOUR DECISIONS MUST BE THE SAME FOR ALL SCHOOLS AND YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE POLITICS FROM THE DECISIONS PROCESS.

School board to vote on boundaries
By Claire Compton

Nearly eight months after the Fairfax County School Board commissioned the West County Boundary Study, it will finally vote on whether to institute a redistricting that could affect up to six high schools.

Parents of students at Oakton, Herndon, Madison, Chantilly and Westfield high schools have nearly unanimously opposed the redistricting, which the school board initiated to ease overcrowding at Chantilly and Westfield and address under-enrollment at South Lakes. Other goals included improving the socioeconomic disparities between schools, eliminating attendance islands and ensuring equitable access to programs and resources.

After five iterations of redistricting scenarios, Herndon was removed from the scenario, but the School Board has a final say on what it approves on Feb. 28.

The boundary process has been a long one that has stirred emotions in every district affected.

Thousands attended three “town meetings” held by the Facilities and Transportation Services staff on Nov. 12, Dec. 3 and Dec. 19. More than 500 people spoke at four public hearings the board held on Jan. 30 and 31 and Feb. 9 and 19.

Out of that participation the board added four new objectives to its initial ones: improving commuting distances, eliminating or reducing split feeder schools, providing an adequate enrollment buffer for South Lakes and keeping neighborhoods together.

School Board Chairman Dan Storck (Mount Vernon) said the largest obstacle in boundary processes has been successfully communicating to the public the need for redistricting and its process.

The west county study has been the largest he's seen during his four years on the board in terms of public involvement. And while he believes the board has had a “thorough vetting of all the different options,” he said he will propose some procedural changes to the process.

Storck said he would like to shorten the time it takes to complete the study, create a more interactive public input process and have a clearer goal at the outset.

“Number one is to define much more clearly from the specific board motion the purpose of the study and what the staff is directed to do,” he said.

Out of the outrage at the boundary process a “watchdog” group was formed called the Fairfax County Coalition of Advocates for Public Schools (Fairfax CAPS).

Founder Nick Pesce lives in the Floris Elementary School district, and said he found out through other boundary studies that parents have little say in the process.

“It was my first eye-opener, that even if they say they don't make the decision ahead of time, they do,” he said.

He said the addition of four goals to the initial four underscored the School Board's shaky logic for the study.

Fairfax CAPS will continue as a watchdog after the vote, Pesce said, but the organization also has plans to bring legal action should the School Board vote to approve the redistricting.

Storck said the School Board has not been sued in recent years, but it isn't concerned about potential lawsuits.

“The legal record is clear, we will be successful,” he said.

Many parents at the public hearings questioned the motives of school board members whose districts were affected and suggested the process was politically motivated by Stu Gibson, who the represents Hunter Mill District.

Tom France, a parent of three elementary-age children in the Madison district said the study's overt political motives has disenfranchised many of the parents.

“The fact that this is so politically driven, Stu Gibson is obviously the main driving force behind this. Janie and Kathy also have a dog in the fight, but the others seem to have the appearance that they just want this to go away,” he said.

Storck said that is an unfortunate inevitability of any boundary study, and he himself was the target of similar accusations during the South County study.

One school board member who appears to be more sympathetic to parents who oppose the study is newcomer Tina Hone (At-Large), who told The Times on Feb. 8 that she would like to re-examine the entire process and look at a countywide redistricting.

“If Jim Rainey doesn't offer an amendment, I will offer one that says stop, and it will fail. I think we really need to talk about this issue, otherwise next year it will be somebody else,” Hone said.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Google Wars ()
Date: February 27, 2008 06:08PM

Googlem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried them with the names you provided and the
> names previously provided. I also used the word
> boundary here is what I got as they relate to news
> coverage only for example Nick has hits under CAPs
> site and Maria under SL PTA, those I did not
> count:
>
> Nick Pesce 3 hits 1 WTOP, 1 Ffx Times 1 Post
> Jay Frost 2 hits 1 observer 1 Ffx times
> Lisa Capalbo 1 Connection
> Stacy Gullette 1 Observer
> John Halacy 1 Post
> Henry Huang 0 hits
> Cynthia Fry 1 Observer
> Total 9 hits 7 Names
>
> Ericka 3 hits Observer,Post, NBC 4
> Maria 6 hits Observer,Extra Examiner,Connection,
> Connection, NBC 4, DC Examiner
> Terry 4 hits 3 Connections and 1 Gazette
> Caroline 2 Hits 1 Connection 1 Post
> Total 15 Hits 4 people
>
> OVER EXPOSED that is all there is to it. Too many
> quotes too few people this is the explanation for
> why the Ffx Times reporter did not call you. By
> the way all though last names were not used in
> original post, I am pretty clear on what they are.
> I left them off in order to ensure annonymity:)
> Its the right thing to do.

yeah, right. Frost had 7 unique hits on the first two pages of Googling. You wanna duel? Fuggedaboutit. CAPS supporters use shivs up their sleeves and call it a fist fight.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 27, 2008 06:11PM

pupil placing Wrote:
> I am nervous about the pupil placing issue. I hear
> that Bruce Butler is asking for a meeting with any
> parents who show up with a form. What does that
> mean?
> Also, if the board says it will put some AP
> classes in SL, will that mean that pupil placing
> for AP isn't an option anymore?

----------------
Existing written policies protect your options.

FCPS Policy R2230
"The parent or guardian submits a completed student transfer application with appropriate documentation for the following school year to the student’s base school principal ... Requests based on sequential curricular programs, including the IB and AP programs must be submitted by April 15 for the following school year (Form SS/SE-221 High School Curricular Program Student Transfer Application). This form can be accessed at
http://www.fcps.edu/forms.htm and Http://www.fcps.edu/ss/student-transfer/index.htm."

FCPS Regulation 7103.5 (Effective 02-23-04) states in part, “Students enrolled in elective or designated special programs not located within their base school boundaries may be provided school bus transportation. ... Advanced Placement (AP) International Baccalaureate (IB) Pupil Placements … Transportation is not provided, but students may ride existing school buses if they can safely access an existing bus stop and if space is available. An exception to ride form must be completed by the parents or guardian and approved annually by transportation services.”

Dr Dale has stated in writing that, "In South Lakes case, one would not be denied transfer to an AP school just because SL had some AP courses offered.” He also wrote, “We regularly approve transfers for AP and IB programs from 9th grade on and there is no loss of (sports) eligibility as I can waive that provision according to VHSL rules."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Fun is Just About to Start! ()
Date: February 27, 2008 07:17PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pupil placing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I hear that Bruce Butler is asking for a meeting
> with any parents who show up with > a form. What
> does that mean?
>
> At a SL PTSA mtg last fall, before AP pupil
> placing to avoid the RD became a cause celebre,
> Bruce said that he always met with everyone who
> sought pupil placing for AP, and even when he knew
> it really was for athletics (a favorite ploy of
> jock Dads), approved the transfer.
>
> If you are determined to pupil place back to your
> kid's former base school, you'll probably have
> nothing to worry about.


Mr. Butler has requested interviews with families seeking pupil placement out of SL for at least 3 years now. As others have said, he has NO DISCRETION to deny the request if it meets one of the criterion set forth in the County Regulation. Requesting AP at a school that only offers IB is one valid and recognized criterion.

The school that is requested DOES have discretion to deny a placement, if it does not have "space avaialable" for that student in the requested program, or if the school is already overcapacity.

Mr. Butler has been approving pupil placement requests this year for students who are already in the SLHS boundary. However, the County has instructed the receiving schools to sit on these until after a decision has been made relative to school boundaries. An administrator advised that, once the boundary decision is made, schools will be able to begin further processing these.

Oh yeah, one other thing, even if both schools approve the pupil placement request, the County can "veto" it. This used to be a "rubber stamp" approval step in the process, but my money this year is on the County claiming that all of these other schools are overcapacity (citing to some convenient set of numbers,whether based in reality or not), and denying each and every application that requests placement out of SLHS to pursue an AP curriculum.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: imabulldog ()
Date: February 27, 2008 07:22PM

So, some South Lakes students started this group on Facebook in which they're signing a letter to the school board. The group description, containing the letter, is pasted below in quotation marks.

"
Please just add your name and then get out of the group (or stay). BUT PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS.

Add your name to the wall.

I am writing a letter to the School Board because, again, they want to vote AGAINST redistricting, which means we will still lose out and not get the same opportunities as other fcps schools. And some classes are being dropped because of it.

"Dear School Board Members,

Thank you for taking the time and trying to do the right thing.

We had a culinary arts lab built for South Lakes, but since we do not have enough students the class is going to be dropped, just like some photography classes. Bottom line is: WE NEED STUDENTS ASAP, before 2 years when we're in college taking classes that we could've taken in high school, but did not have the opportunity to.

Please give us the same chance as everyone else, then at least we can say we tried!

And we hope that we do not have to stand before you (again) at another School Board Hearing.

Thanks, and please do the right thing.
Current South Lakes students,"
Nisa Katz...
(I need some more!)

So, if you or anyone else would like to be added, I would be eternally grateful! And we NEED redistricting. So please pass this along to other Seahawks. Thanks."




For anyone that has a Facebook, the group is called Seahawks, I need your help!
I personally don't think this is going to do anything, unless they somehow get tons of signatures by tomorrow. They currently only have 23 members...

I just found that interesting.

Oh, there's also another Facebook group called Stop Redistricting in Fairfax County. It's been up for a while, and it has 1071 members.



I am so scared for tomorrow. As is my younger brother, who will most likely be affected by all of this since he is an 8th grader.

Is there still a good chance that they'll move current high school students, though? Particularly because of the new budget?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: already stitched up ()
Date: February 27, 2008 07:32PM

The deals have already been done by weekend phone calls during the 'virtual work session'

Anything they receive between now and then will just be used to wave and justify decisions they've already made one way or the other

Don't expect any 'roads to damascus' on the way to the ball - except for show

I don't expect to see Janie jumping up and down with the Madison North petition shouting 'I'm sorry, I was wrong, I should have listened to my constituents' - would be nice though even for show

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: samgee ()
Date: February 27, 2008 07:39PM

I had requested a pupil placement for middle school to a school outside my district in order for my son to take a Latin class that was not offered by the base school. I was told that my son could be "bussed"to the school that did offer Latin for that one class and was summarily denied the pupil placement. I do not know where anyone gets the idea that requests for pupil placement are automatically granted. Especially now.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 27, 2008 07:50PM

Placement for individual classes is not "automatically" granted. Placement for AP curriculum is. The school policy diffentiates these cases, with high school advanced programs given the special treatment. "Automatically" is in quotes because the request still has to meet basic criteria having to do with available space and proximity...you can't place to any school you want, only to the school closest to you that has space (though in practice they don't necessarily measure the distance if its a reasonable request).

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: not jock enough? ()
Date: February 27, 2008 07:50PM

samgee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had requested a pupil placement for middle
> school to a school outside my district in order
> for my son to take a Latin class that was not
> offered by the base school. I was told that my son
> could be "bussed"to the school that did offer
> Latin for that one class and was summarily denied
> the pupil placement. I do not know where anyone
> gets the idea that requests for pupil placement
> are automatically granted. Especially now.

sounds as if you should have said it was for athletic opportunities - academics are obviously not 'jock' enough for FCPS

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: special treatment ()
Date: February 27, 2008 08:11PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Placement for individual classes is not
> "automatically" granted. Placement for AP
> curriculum is. The school policy diffentiates
> these cases, with high school advanced programs
> given the special treatment. "Automatically" is
> in quotes because the request still has to meet
> basic criteria having to do with available space
> and proximity...you can't place to any school you
> want, only to the school closest to you that has
> space (though in practice they don't necessarily
> measure the distance if its a reasonable request).


Which implies that if you're redistricted to a failing middle school, you're toast.

Hence the elegance of the annexation of Madison North into Hughes and South Lakes and its unfairness

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: i wonder ()
Date: February 27, 2008 08:28PM

What would happen if we all pupil placed our kids into Langley?
Not like we actually would, but that'd be interesting...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: samgee ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:18PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Placement for individual classes is not
> "automatically" granted. Placement for AP
> curriculum is. The school policy diffentiates
> these cases, with high school advanced programs
> given the special treatment. "Automatically" is
> in quotes because the request still has to meet
> basic criteria having to do with available space
> and proximity...you can't place to any school you
> want, only to the school closest to you that has
> space (though in practice they don't necessarily
> measure the distance if its a reasonable request).


I think that there is alot of wishful thinking going on here if anyone
believes that 100+ pupil placements will be granted especially when FCPS
knows the South Lakes/Oakton situation.

Many students who were in the Falls Church HS district pupil placed to Oakton
used the German language instruction that was only offered by Oakton. All requests were granted. This is as legitimate as pupil placement for AP. Do you think that STu Gibson, however, went through all this trouble to allow pupil placement to nullify his efforts?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:42PM

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ONE Young Scholar was
> > accepted at TJ last year.
>
> How do you know a Young Scholar was accepted? How
> long has that program been in existence? I have
> only heard of it for a few years, and it is
> targeted to young ES students, right?
>
> I do think something needs to be done at the ES
> level to assist more students, who might end being
> interested and qualified for TJ. In particular
> math instruction for all students needs to be
> beefed up. When I first started teaching, after
> years of another career, I was appalled to see the
> math textbooks used. I found an old textbook, a
> very basic text, and used that with my students
> rather than the hodgepodge book I had been told to
> use. The required text had lots of pretty
> pictures, with tons of information, but very
> little math. My 4 year old was doing more math in
> his head, than these third graders were requested
> to learn. I haven't taught math in an ES in
> sometime, but I hear the books remain the same.
> Without beefing up ES math, students won't get
> into Algebra in a timely fashion, and will instead
> have essentially the same math concepts taught
> between 6th-8th grade.

Carol Horn, Director of GT programs, said that a Young Scholar was accepted into TJ. She was very happy to announce that. MILLIONS of dollars, for ONE student, who may well have accepted at TJ without having been in Young Scholars and without any affirmative action and without the Quest program.

Young Scholars has been around for 8 years. I'm not sure how long Quest has been around, but at least 8 years. I'm not sure about all the other programs for Blacks, like Summit and College Partnership. Nor is there any way to measure their effectiveness although Dr. Dale says they are working on ways to measure effectiveness of the various programs.

When the school board voted to adopt "Everday Math" the teachers on the Math advisory committee overwhelmingly supported it. At public hearings on the subject, teacher after teacher testified in support of the board adopting it. Parent after Parent opposed it. Stu said he had to vote for what the 'professionals' recommended, and that was 'Everyday Math".

I totally agree with you that it is not a good math program and a terrible program for students without the ability to hire outside tutors, or parents who can teach them math.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:46PM

>>>Many students who were in the Falls Church HS district pupil placed to Oakton
used the German language instruction that was only offered by Oakton. All requests were granted. This is as legitimate as pupil placement for AP. Do you think that STu Gibson, however, went through all this trouble to allow pupil placement to nullify his efforts?<<<

This question was asked by Tina Hone. Staff has said yes, they will allow pupil placement out of South Lakes. They must. There cannot be separate rules for one high school. That would be unequal treatment and the law has been very clear that schools cannot do that. Stu cannot circumvent the law. As much as Stu might want to do it, South Lakes cannot be the only county school that won't allow students to get out for academic reasons, and all the other reasons that students pupil place.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:48PM

i wonder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What would happen if we all pupil placed our kids
> into Langley?
> Not like we actually would, but that'd be
> interesting...

You can't do that since Langley is at capacity, or over capacity, although Langley does have a number of pupil placed students.

Oakton will have many empty seats, and Madison will have space too. So the Madison Island kids will all be able to pupil place back into Madison and the Oakton kids will be able to do the same at Oakton.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 09:49PM by Neen.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:54PM

>>>I am also tired. It will only end tomorrow, if the Board votes down the RD.<<<

If the board, and staff, think that it ends tomorrow, they've learned nothing from this process.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: annoyed with oak hill ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:55PM

Let's not forget the Oak Hill community that has sold the Navy community under the bus time and time again. They publically announced "hooray" for the option to move us to Oakton and they stay at Chantilly. Shame on them for their vile behavior and willingness to endorse such a flawed idea to send us 8 miles in the opposite direction.

>
> When Herndon PTA thought they might lose the
> astronauts in the RD, they cared a lot. The fact
> that people applaud an activity that doesn't
> affect them directly--but hurts others in the
> community--is nothing for those groups to be proud
> of. The fact that Herndon PTA supports the
> current plan says a lot about the Herndon PTA--and
> it's not good. (And, for the record, I an a Fox
> Mill parent (anti RD) and I did NOT support moving
> the astronauts in the orig option 4, even though
> it kept FM at Oakton.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Achievement ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:58PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i wonder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What would happen if we all pupil placed our
> kids
> > into Langley?
> > Not like we actually would, but that'd be
> > interesting...
>
> You can't do that since Langley is at capacity, or
> over capacity, although Langley does have a number
> of pupil placed students.
>
> Oakton will have many empty seats, and Madison
> will have space too. So the Madison Island kids
> will all be able to pupil place back into Madison
> and the Oakton kids will be able to do the same at
> Oakton.

Madison folks should remember that SVES is a regular school with a GT center, so no pupil placement out to Wolftrap would probably be approved on the basis of curriculum. It also has space -- more than Wolftrap since it doesn't have trailers and wouldn't need them for incoming students. Hughes is a regular MS with a GT center -- it has the Middle Years IB program, but that is basically honors and doesn't come under the rubric of an "IB program" such that it can be used to place out.

I'm saying this because I would not want families in Madison to be misled.

Many people have been invited to visit South Lakes and meet with Bruce Butler, But Madison folks might want to visit Hughes and meet with Amy Monticchio, the fabulous new principal there.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 27, 2008 10:01PM

Googlem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried them with the names you provided and the
> names previously provided. I also used the word
> boundary here is what I got as they relate to news
> coverage only for example Nick has hits under CAPs
> site and Maria under SL PTA, those I did not
> count:
>
> Nick Pesce 3 hits 1 WTOP, 1 Ffx Times 1 Post
> Jay Frost 2 hits 1 observer 1 Ffx times
> Lisa Capalbo 1 Connection
> Stacy Gullette 1 Observer
> John Halacy 1 Post
> Henry Huang 0 hits
> Cynthia Fry 1 Observer
> Total 9 hits 7 Names
>
> Ericka 3 hits Observer,Post, NBC 4
> Maria 6 hits Observer,Extra Examiner,Connection,
> Connection, NBC 4, DC Examiner
> Terry 4 hits 3 Connections and 1 Gazette
> Caroline 2 Hits 1 Connection 1 Post
> Total 15 Hits 4 people
>
> OVER EXPOSED that is all there is to it. Too many
> quotes too few people this is the explanation for
> why the Ffx Times reporter did not call you. By
> the way all though last names were not used in
> original post, I am pretty clear on what they are.
> I left them off in order to ensure annonymity:)
> Its the right thing to do.

Are you saying that the press is getting many more quotes from those who support South Lakes, Stu Gibson, and IB? FOUR, pro South Lakes people are quoted more than all the others who opposed redistricting?

Gee, why am I NOT surprised?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: serious concerns ()
Date: February 27, 2008 10:08PM

Achievement Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Many people have been invited to visit South Lakes
> and meet with Bruce Butler, But Madison folks
> might want to visit Hughes and meet with Amy
> Monticchio, the fabulous new principal there.


I think its fair to say that many Madison folk are extremely concerned with the performance of Hughes, fabulous new principal or not.

From the FCPS figures, if you back out the GT center scores, the performance is very worrying indeed.

This is one of the reasons why it is so unfair that the Madison community has been singled out for redistricted at all three levels - it looks very much as if its to further prop up the Hughes scores, there doesn't seem to be any other supportable rationale.

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