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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HooTribe ()
Date: February 21, 2008 04:50PM

Nope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What was the last time when students were RD'd to
> a low performing school without opening of a new
> HS in FCPS?


When was the additional area added to Marshall? Didn't that come from Madison?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 21, 2008 04:51PM

HooTribe Wrote:
> FR,
>
> Curious to get your take: since SL and Westfield
> share a border, do you consider that it would
> apply under #2? Most people would agree that SL
> is under-enrolled, but it is up to debate as to
> whether Westfield is over-enrolled. I would say
> yes, but wanted to get a anti RD viewpoint.

---
Fair question.

As of January Westfield had 3111 students and a capacity of 3100. No, I do NOT consider that to be significantly over-crowded.

The new twist is this summer FCPS suddenly decided FCPS high schools should only have about 2,000 students. This was just AFTER it built a "bricks and mortar" addition to Westfield to give it a capacity of 3,100.

Just last month the School Board voted to spend a couple million to start planning a middle schools even though:
1) There is plenty of space at adjacent schools so NO new school is needed, and
2) If the middle school is pulled out of South County then FCPS would be creating another "too big" high school.

BEFORE it votes on THIS RD, the School Board and the FCPS staff need to get their act together. If the decision is to make high schools about 2,000 (give it a window of 1700 to 2300) then the following must occur:
1) Make Mt Vernon a secondary school. It has so much space only a few students would have be be redistricted out. The current middle school, Whitman, could be converted to a needed elementary school.
2) Cancel all plans to build a south county middle school and leave SCSS school as is but with a boundary change, probably to Lake Braddock, of about 50 students per grade.
3) Start building the new "Carson area" high school.
4) Remove the modular from Chantilly and move the "excess" students to the new high school.
5) Convert Westfield to a secondary school. Move a thousand high schoolers to the the high school and a thousand middle schoolers in.

As you can see, IF the decision is that Westifield has "too much capacity" the ramifications are huge. Significant redistricting would be needed among west county high schools.

Bottom line: STOP the South Lakes RD until all these questions are resolved.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Nope ()
Date: February 21, 2008 04:54PM

Was that in 80's or 90's? Did it help Marshall?

HooTribe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Nope Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What was the last time when students were RD'd
> to
> > a low performing school without opening of a
> new
> > HS in FCPS?
>
>
> When was the additional area added to Marshall?
> Didn't that come from Madison?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HooTribe ()
Date: February 21, 2008 04:59PM

Nope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was that in 80's or 90's? Did it help Marshall?
>
> HooTribe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Nope Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What was the last time when students were
> RD'd
> > to
> > > a low performing school without opening of a
> > new
> > > HS in FCPS?
> >
> >
> > When was the additional area added to Marshall?
>
> > Didn't that come from Madison?


Sounds like about the right time frame. As to helping Marshall, my opinion is that it did, but I don't know of any data on this. It would be interesting to find out what happened in those neighborhoods that got moved. In fact, that is the type of research they should have done before this boundary study.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Reason I won't send my kids to South ()
Date: February 21, 2008 05:10PM

WHY?

Because how this process is handled. If the SB did listen to community input and did survy to ask how parents feel, and move whole ES, not split students in 2 parts or 3 parts, include all schools in the study and be fair to everybody, then things can be different, we may come.

Because somebody think just force us we will go, We will not come. Because we are weak, we are from other country, we are not rich enough, our English is not good, so SB can do whatever to us, that's how we feel.

We Asian parents was upset of how we were treated, the more town hall meeting and more public hearing we attend, more we will not go to South Lakes HS.

How you feel if this happens to you? Your English is not good, you never speak in public, you went there to speak and see how SB treat you and react to you? We are not asking and expecting for exact equal rights, just don't push us too much. It's at a point, we can't take any more. Sorry US is your country, but we came here and we become US citizens already. Why we are still been treated second/third class citizen?

Can you blame me for upset about this process?

I wish South Lakes people and SLHS PSTA did differently in this boundary process. Didn't point fingers to whoever doesn't agree with them. I went to SouthLakes HS, Didn't feel much difference than Westfield or Oakton HS. They are all FCPS public school. Is the SLHS people posting here made us feel bad about their school. I believe many SLHS parents and reston people not posting here may be different.

Sorry, it will takes years to forget about this mess.

I will not say "never never", for now, I won't. Things may change in the future, let's wait and see.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Red Coats Rising ()
Date: February 21, 2008 05:23PM

HooTribe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Was that in 80's or 90's? Did it help Marshall?
> >
> > HooTribe Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Nope Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What was the last time when students were
> > RD'd
> > > to
> > > > a low performing school without opening of
> a
> > > new
> > > > HS in FCPS?
> > >
> > >
> > > When was the additional area added to
> Marshall?
> >
> > > Didn't that come from Madison?
>
>
> Sounds like about the right time frame. As to
> helping Marshall, my opinion is that it did, but I
> don't know of any data on this. It would be
> interesting to find out what happened in those
> neighborhoods that got moved. In fact, that is
> the type of research they should have done before
> this boundary study.


Not specifically a "redistricting", but that mother of the former TJ - now SLHS student (with a 4.1 GPA) mentioned that Herndon used to have an iffy reputation (even with AP) before the North Reston schools were added to its pyramid.

And overnight it became a "good" school no one wanted to pupil-place out of.

Go figure?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: February 21, 2008 05:25PM

I watched the meeting on Channel 21. I said to my husband how much I admire all of you who struggle with English as a second language yet risked embarrassment to stand up and publicly speak out for the sake of your kids. I don't know if I could have done that in your position. The Asian community in western Fairfax County has a lot to be proud of regardless of how this turns out ... you have showed nothing but class. Bravo.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Old Timer ()
Date: February 21, 2008 05:26PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer Wrote:
> > ... TJ kids are
> > typically white and wealthy...
>
> ---------------
> OT, are you aware Jefferson is barely 50% White
> (935 students out of 1805)?


Ok, white and asian and wealthy.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: I Give Up ()
Date: February 21, 2008 05:37PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I Give Up Wrote:
> > .. AP equals the FCPS AP Honors Diploma. Only 5%
> of
> > students benefit (actually, fewer).
> >
> ---------
> Go back to the beginning. AP does NOT equal the
> "FCPS AP Honors Diploma."
>
> As I posted quite a while ago, look at Woodson,
> which was about the same size as South Lakes when
> it got IB. Go to:
> http://www.fcps.edu/woodsonhs/guidance/academics/a
> i_awards_ap.htm
> Last year:
> SEVEN Woodson students were "National AP Scholars"
> (an average grade of at least 4 on all AP Exams
> taken, and grades of 4 or higher on eight or more
> of these exams).
> 67 Woodson students are named as "AP Scholars with
> Distinction" (an average grade of at least 3.5 on
> all AP Exams taken, and grades of 3 or higher on
> five or more of these exams).
> 60 were named as "AP Scholars with Honor" (average
> grade of at least 3.25 on all AP Exams taken, and
> grades of 3 or higher on four or more of these
> exams).
> 130 were "AP Scholars" (grades of 3 or higher on
> three or more AP Exams).
>
> With 414 Seniors at Woodson last June, it looks
> like well over fifty percent of the students
> benefit from AP and are eligible for advanced
> placement and credit at many American colleges and
> universities.

Dam*n, FR! You are too much. Read that post again and see if you're little mind can wrap itself around hyperbole. (You might have to look that up.)

The fact remains: The highest ranked AP diploma goes to teeny tiny few. Get rid of AP, I say!! Chuck it!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fair ()
Date: February 21, 2008 06:03PM

When Is It Fair? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Under what circustances would you allow a boundary
> change that sends your child to a different high
> school than the one you expected him or her to go
> to?

It would be acceptable to me when a brand new school is opening in my "neigbhorhood".

It is not acceptable when my children are used to fix an underperforming school.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 21, 2008 06:57PM

Old Timer - explain the significance of TJ being, as you state, mostly white and wealthy (and I guess asian, too). The school is more diverse than almost any other, except, of course, when it comes to native intelligence, to which it has a surplus. There are literally kids with national origins from all over the globe there. Or are the children of the wrong kind of race or national origin to fufill a progressive narrative, or at least your own definition of diversity? Or alternatively, are these really the kinds of kids upon which it makes sense to play racial identity politics? They are smart, they will, if properly trained, bring outsize benefits and multiplier factors to our economy and to our culture, and it is in our interest to challenge them as best we can. Is this really the platform upon which we should let typically vacuous notions of liberal white guilt prevail?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: February 21, 2008 07:20PM

Don'tThinkSo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can say for all my friends from Asian, we live
> here mainly because of the school. Most of us
> moved more than once to get to the school we want.
> Some of us work in MD, like my husband. But we
> still live here because our kids love our school.
>

I'm confused. Do you go to Westfield, like so many other Asian families from Floris who spoke? If so, why did you choose Westfield, whose SAT scores are only 20 points ahead of South Lakes? Why not Oakton or Madison or Langley?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: February 21, 2008 07:38PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum Reader Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > --------------
> > > When to change borders:
> > > 1) When a new school is opened (or of course
> > when
> > > an old one closes).
> > > 2) When a significantly over-crowded school
> > > borders along a significantly under-enrolled
> > > school.
> > > There is no number 3.
> > >
> > > And unless the new school offers BETTER
> > academics,
> > > I would pupil place my children back to the
> old
> > > school.
> >
> > FR,
> >
> > Curious to get your take: since SL and
> Westfield
> > share a border, do you consider that it would
> > apply under #2? Most people would agree that
> SL
> > is under-enrolled, but it is up to debate as to
> > whether Westfield is over-enrolled. I would
> say
> > yes, but wanted to get a anti RD viewpoint.
>
> Following that logic, the part that joins the 2
> boundaries is McNair Farms. Now wouldn't that be
> the logical part to take if you want to balance
> enrollment?

So you don't mind 'throwing McNair under the bus' as long as you are 'safe?'

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 21, 2008 07:56PM

Hey SLVerity...

Moving McNair to South Lakes would be 'throwing [it] under the bus'?

I thought you would welcome new students with open arms.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Child of an Immigrant ()
Date: February 21, 2008 08:00PM

Why are we singling out Asian parents to praise them for speaking at the hearings? I heard West Africans and Indians and parents of other nationalities speaking as well. I admire EVERYONE for speaking. What about the shy white person who has never before spoken publicly?

Asian families have been welcomed into this Country with open arms. They have won life's lottery. Not only have they been allowed to escape oppresive or poor regimes, buy apparently God has gifted many of them with high IQs and their cultures have given them a strong work ethic.

Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent giving back in the schools, and my children attend school with many Asian families. Why is this all about them and what they want? Have they not discovered that this Country is driven by those who give back?

As a child of an immigrant who gave back, I am appalled at the self-serving attitudes dispalyed at the hearings and I really resent the victim card played by many. They are not victims. They are fortunate indeed.

Many Asian parents at the hearings spoke of the dangers at SL. How do they compare with Tianaman Square or North Korea?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TheFinalOptionIsOnLine ()
Date: February 21, 2008 08:15PM

Final School Board Agenda for 2/28 is online and the only option for vote is Option 1.

The next phase of the fights now will shift to courts. Great day for Laywers - Stu Gibson has a 3.5 million dollar war chest. The communities probably around half a million.

The fun is far from over. This thread could go path 500 pages easily, by time all court cases are done

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Don'tThinkSo ()
Date: February 21, 2008 08:18PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don'tThinkSo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can say for all my friends from Asian, we
> live
> > here mainly because of the school. Most of us
> > moved more than once to get to the school we
> want.
> > Some of us work in MD, like my husband. But we
> > still live here because our kids love our
> school.
> >
>
> I'm confused. Do you go to Westfield, like so many
> other Asian families from Floris who spoke? If
> so, why did you choose Westfield, whose SAT scores
> are only 20 points ahead of South Lakes? Why not
> Oakton or Madison or Langley?


I bought my house for Oakton but got redistricted to Westfield. Because my kids were young at that time I didn't move. Since westfield got all the programs we want, my kids get to like it, so there is no point to move anymore. If we got RD to SL, we will try pupil place first, if that doesn't work out, then we might have to move again. If that's the case we will consider Oakton or Langley.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 21, 2008 08:24PM

Old Timer,

I guess you don't know many Asians at TJ. Very few are wealthy. Often, their parents are well-educated immigrants, who came here as adults and do not have high-paying jobs.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > OT, are you aware Jefferson is barely 50% White
> > (935 students out of 1805)?
> >
> Ok, white and asian and wealthy.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 21, 2008 08:28PM

Is that your circle of life? I know Floris is known for parents volunteering and donations.

"Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent giving back in the schools, and my children attend school with many Asian families. Why is this all about them and what they want? Have they not discovered that this Country is driven by those who give back?"

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 21, 2008 08:28PM

Is that your circle of life? Floris is known for parents volunteering and donations.

"Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent giving back in the schools, and my children attend school with many Asian families. Why is this all about them and what they want? Have they not discovered that this Country is driven by those who give back?"

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 21, 2008 08:31PM

"I bought my house for Oakton but got redistricted to Westfield. Because my kids were young at that time I didn't move. Since westfield got all the programs we want, my kids get to like it, so there is no point to move anymore. If we got RD to SL, we will try pupil place first, if that doesn't work out, then we might have to move again. If that's the case we will consider Oakton or Langley."

Exactly. Floris is not "new" community.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 21, 2008 09:15PM

Child of an immigrant - the invocation of Tianamen Square and North Korea is meaningless. No immigrant or citizen currently in this country faces those prospects. They are here and their choices should be equivalent to other citizens.

And given that Asians are truly discriminated against (one need only look at college admissions) and are not the beneficiaries of racial preferences in the great and insipid diversity game show, their complaints, unlike those that desire to engage in the racial preference game, are legitimate and principled.

And the notion that Asians don't give back to the schools is silly, anecdotal at best, and to its recipients, likely a bit racist. But don't worry, Asians as a population are used to such treatment, and succeed nonetheless. It is that little thing that market based economies like - you know - competence and education and a work ethic.

And if you were trying to persuade people to the South Lakes cause, with friends like this South Lakes does not need enemies.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: yawn ()
Date: February 21, 2008 09:36PM

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Child of an immigrant - the invocation of Tianamen
> Square and North Korea is meaningless. No


yup - methinks 'child of immigrant' has a dose of asian-envy

the asian community, on average, takes education more seriously than your average good old boy

as a result, they are, on average, more successful at the upper reaches of academe and in high tech / high salary industry

sorry my friend - asia is your future - unless you start to realize that educational excellence really matters

get over the racial bit and focus on being competitive

having the SLHS boosters pulling racism cards of all sorts is getting a bit boring

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: lizard ()
Date: February 21, 2008 09:41PM

This is the bottom line: If you live in the DC area, you should never,ever expect anything to stay the way it is--whether they are school districts, shopping centers, bus routes, all are subject to change because that is the nature of the metro area. In fact, if you bought your house when your kids were 2 and 5 based on the school district, you were naive. There are no guarantees that the school that received high ratings when the kids were 2 and 5 will be the same school with the same great teachers, courses, and test scores when they are 14 and 16. How can you all waste your time and energy insulting each other, insulting the school board, and insulting other people's children? Shame on all of you. End this thread!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Who are you? ()
Date: February 21, 2008 09:50PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > After watching the channel 21 broadcast last
> > night, it appears the the master plan of Stu
> and
> > Kathy is moving on along as planned. It should
> > have been clear to all that new options 2 and 3
> > were "never" going to fly. It seems like both
> Stu
> > and Kathy created plans that pretty much
> > compromised most of the major objectives in the
> > study, including keeping neighborhoods
> together,
> > reduced split feeders, elimination of islands,
> > reduced commutes etc etc.
> >
> > By limiting who could speak to the proposal's
> on
> > the table, and what could be said regarding the
> RD
> > at the hearing last night, it was clear that
> the
> > families in Chantilly Highlands and Fox Mill
> would
> > be out in full force, to denounce the 2 new
> plans.
> > (I wonder where Stu was? Perhaps he was at
> home,
> > working on a new alternative)
> >
> > Suddendly, the SB can now say that Option #1
> > really was the best plan all along, based on
> > "public input".
> >
> > I am amazed at the way that this entire RD
> study
> > has been conducted, and it is so clear that
> > decisions were made many months ago regarding
> the
> > RD and who was going to be sent to SL.
> >
> > The sheer amount of time, money, energy that
> this
> > process has sapped from the community is just
> mind
> > boggling! The stress that has been created over
> > the last few months as a result of this RD is
> sure
> > to result in many future divorces, illnesses,
> and
> > depression related health issues.
> >
> > The damage and distrust that has been created
> > amongst those neighborhoods that have been
> > selected for this boundary study, is huge, and
> I
> > believe that many friendships have been
> > permanently damaged. It is a process that the
> SB
> > planned from the very beginning, to create
> > alternatives that they knew would pit community
> > against community. Break Fox Mill into 2? Split
> > Floris into 2? Split Chantilly Highlands into
> 2?
> > Put McNair in Herndon after the feedback from
> the
> > prior meetings and feedback? Send Navy to
> Oakton?
> > These are some of the best ideas that our SB
> and
> > staff could come up with?
> >
> > If these SB members are responsible for the
> > education that our children are to get, we are
> all
> > in very big trouble! The incompetence that has
> > been demonstrated by this board is
> > unbelievable.The under the table political
> > dealings are just as bad. The SB members have
> been
> > "elected", to represent all of us, not just
> South
> > Lakes.
> >
> > It has been posted by some on this Forum that a
> > majority opinion does not constitute the
> "right"
> > opinion as it relates to this RD. I disagree.
> Were
> > our SB members not elected into their positions
> by
> > a "majority of votes" by the public?
> >
> > I hope that there is someone would has been
> > documenting everything that has been said
> during
> > this process, as it would make a great
> documentary
> > on how "not" to conduct a boundary study.
>
> Great post.
>
> I agree, they will go with proposal 1, the staff
> proposal, minus Navy. That will leave Oakton with
> enough empty seats for everyone who wants to pupil
> place back into Oakton. A win-win. Sort of.


The problem with the scenario you describe is that some children will get left behnd. Some kids are simply not AP students, and they won't be able join their friends if a mass pupil placement happens...

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: February 21, 2008 10:01PM

Child of an Immigrant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Asian families have been welcomed into this
> Country with open arms. They have won life's
> lottery.

Everyone has the opportunity to be winners here.

Not only have they been allowed to escape
> oppresive or poor regimes, buy apparently God has
> gifted many of them with high IQs and their
> cultures have given them a strong work ethic.
>

We are all fortunate to be here.

> Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent giving
> back in the schools, and my children attend school
> with many Asian families. Why is this all about
> them and what they want? Have they not discovered
> that this Country is driven by those who give
> back?
>
> As a child of an immigrant who gave back, I am
> appalled at the self-serving attitudes dispalyed
> at the hearings and I really resent the victim
> card played by many. They are not victims. They
> are fortunate indeed.
>

As an Asian, I would find this offensive were it not for the fact that I pity your narrow mindedness. Did it ever occur to you that people might volunteer in proportion to the amount of time they have available? If you were truly as "tolerant" as you believe yourself to be, you would realize that the only race that matters is the human race.

Wanting to believe the best about the SL community, I would expect/hope that they will reject and disavow the sentiments you have expressed as unrepresentative of their community.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: nah ()
Date: February 21, 2008 10:01PM

Who are you? Wrote:

> > place back into Oakton. A win-win. Sort of.
>
>
> The problem with the scenario you describe is that
> some children will get left behnd. Some kids are
> simply not AP students, and they won't be able
> join their friends if a mass pupil placement
> happens...

Nah - the problem is more pernicious - its entirely a scam, from beginning to end

screwed, screwed and screwed

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 21, 2008 10:07PM

lizard, did you realize the Floris community was sent from Oakton to Westfield 8 years ago and was told by the very same SB member that Westfield is their future? Did you agree this RD is not because of "rapid change", but just to boost another school, where at least 1/3 of much closer schools are 'untouchable'?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: lizard ()
Date: February 22, 2008 07:30AM

AP--Yes, I am very aware. I know some of those affected families pretty well because I live in western FFX and we attend the same house of worship. I have been hearing about this for years from them and I still say--do not expect things to ever stay the same around here. It is the nature of the beast. You know--it's not the end of the world. If nothing else, the kids will learn that you need to be flexible to survive shifting sands. If you dig your heels in and scream about having to change--what sort of role model are you providing for them? There are many things in life you cannot control. If you want control, move somewhere else because you will never obtain in here, whether it's schools, rapid transit, development, etc.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: lizard ()
Date: February 22, 2008 07:49AM

AP--I realized I did not answer the second part of your question. I agree with you that this is not about rapid change. I was comparing decisions like redistricting to decisions made about almost everything else in our community.

As for boosting another school--I am not in the field of education. Probably only a small percentage of the people on this thread are either. If the SB thinks SL needs to be boosted, so be it. The kids will be fine wherever they end up.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 22, 2008 07:51AM

leave_us_alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ItsTheMasterSchedule Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > leave_us_alone Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > Are you suggesting, the anticipated students
> > from
> > > Fox Mill, MI and Floris will tilt the balance
> > in
> > > AP favor? In all fairness, is this the right
> > way
> > > to wage the battle? I do not think it is
> > > practical/democratic to force an IB program
> on
> > > kids that are being redistricted. To this,
> they
> > > will come back say pupil placement is always
> an
> > > option.
> > >
> > > To me all this mess would have been avoided,
> if
> > > these maps were drawn in back office and
> > letters
> > > went out to these 3 communities,
> > >
> > > Next year we will be offering an exciting IB
> > > program for high school in Reston, South
> Lakes.
> > > Transportation will be provided to all kids
> who
> > > want to get into this universally accepted
> > > program.
> > >
> > > At least I would have done it this way.
>
> > As far as the SB changing the rule (by
> providing
> > transportation) to encourage PP out of SLHS.
> That
> > is certainly unlikely (and should not happen)
> to
> > happen because the SB takes the position that
> > either program of study is viable, challenging,
> > and world class. If the SB takes the position
> > that either is inferior they should shut down
> the
> > program immediately and pull out of all FCPS
> > schools.
>
>
> Please read what I am saying. I am not asking for
> transportation for students PP ing out of SSL. How
> did that get in your head?
>
> I am saying as a way to give incentive to students
> to try the IB program at south lakes provide them
> with transportation.
>
> I may be wrong, but you SLHS guys think RD is done
> deal and like someone said Master Stu has
> delivered. Although odds are against all of us who
> oppose RD, hope is a birth right of everyone. Call
> me optimistic.

Transportation into SLHS is certainly an option. An option I would not necessarily agree with because it's a bad precedent. FCPS has elected to offer IB as an educational approach and they should stand by IB or remove it. IB is equally capable of educating kids so the SB should not feel compelled to hang incentives on the program because it would send the message that they believe it's inferior. Given the current budget constraints it also would be fiscally irresponsible.

I have a child pupil placed in SLHS however do not assume I am for RD. As for what will happen, who knows?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 22, 2008 08:22AM

anAsian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I moved here only for good school district . If RD
> happens I will move again. Will NEVER NEVER send
> my kid to South Lakes.
>
> Don'tThinkSo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can say for all my friends from Asian, we
> live
> > here mainly because of the school. Most of us
> > moved more than once to get to the school we
> want.
> > Some of us work in MD, like my husband. But we
> > still live here because our kids love our
> school.
> >
> > Job Ranks Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Everyone on this board does realize that
> every
> > > single solitary Fairfax County high school
> > ranks
> > > in the top three percent of all 27,000 public
> > high
> > > school nationwide, right?
> > >
> > > And exactly how many really truly decided to
> > live
> > > HERE because of schools and not because of
> jobs
> > > and congestion? The VAST majority of
> homeowner
> > > locations are determined not by school
> > districts,
> > > but by jobs and commuting distances. THEN
> > people
> > > try for best schools, usually concerned with
> > the
> > > top third in the area. That is a fact. Check
> it
> > > out at Fortune magazine. You lose your job,
> > think
> > > your next move will be related to the best
> > school
> > > in Pittsburgh when your job offer is from
> > Detroit?
> > > Not likely.

that's the reality of the process, you have that option. however, if you continue to attend public schools you will continue to be subject to the boundary lines drawn by the SB. probably the safest way to guard against potential redistricting is to move to the street that the school you desire sits on.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Foum Reader ()
Date: February 22, 2008 08:51AM

ItsTheMasterSchedule Wrote:
> ... I have a child pupil placed in SLHS ...
------------
Did you pupil place so you child could access the IB curriculum?
If so, and if South Lakes reverts to AP, what would you prefer?
1) Add an Academy IB Diploma Programme (five periods per day, junior and senior year) at South Lakes.
2) Go back to our base school.
3) Pupil place to Robinson or Marshall instead.
4) Other?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: What kind of Child of an Immigrant yo ()
Date: February 22, 2008 09:11AM

No, You are wrong!

We Asian parents tried our best to volunteer at school, we came to US with empty hands, we usually had to both working to pay the mortage. We need work and take care of kids. We are not that rich, Most of the families both parents working. We don't have that much free time. Understand that?

I tried my best to take time off and volunteer at school. How could you say that we don't give back to the FCPS? Shame on you.

I guess you must be a rich immigrant's child, You don't need worry about money, you are lucky and you are fortunate indeed. Not us!

Why are you mention Tianaman Square or North Korea? We came here and becomes US citizens here. If they the same, why are we here at US?



Child of an Immigrant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent giving
> back in the schools, and my children attend school
> with many Asian families. Why is this all about
> them and what they want? Have they not discovered
> that this Country is driven by those who give
> back?
>
> Many Asian parents at the hearings spoke of the
> dangers at SL. How do they compare with Tianaman
> Square or North Korea?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 22, 2008 09:23AM

ItsTheMasterSchedule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anAsian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I moved here only for good school district . If
> RD
> > happens I will move again. Will NEVER NEVER
> send
> > my kid to South Lakes.
> >
> > Don'tThinkSo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I can say for all my friends from Asian, we
> > live
> > > here mainly because of the school. Most of us
> > > moved more than once to get to the school we
> > want.
> > > Some of us work in MD, like my husband. But
> we
> > > still live here because our kids love our
> > school.
> > >
> > > Job Ranks Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Everyone on this board does realize that
> > every
> > > > single solitary Fairfax County high school
> > > ranks
> > > > in the top three percent of all 27,000
> public
> > > high
> > > > school nationwide, right?
> > > >
> > > > And exactly how many really truly decided
> to
> > > live
> > > > HERE because of schools and not because of
> > jobs
> > > > and congestion? The VAST majority of
> > homeowner
> > > > locations are determined not by school
> > > districts,
> > > > but by jobs and commuting distances. THEN
> > > people
> > > > try for best schools, usually concerned
> with
> > > the
> > > > top third in the area. That is a fact.
> Check
> > it
> > > > out at Fortune magazine. You lose your job,
> > > think
> > > > your next move will be related to the best
> > > school
> > > > in Pittsburgh when your job offer is from
> > > Detroit?
> > > > Not likely.
>
> that's the reality of the process, you have that
> option. however, if you continue to attend public
> schools you will continue to be subject to the
> boundary lines drawn by the SB. probably the
> safest way to guard against potential
> redistricting is to move to the street that the
> school you desire sits on.


The reality of this particular RD process is that there has been a number of violations committed making this process a very unfair one. I do not oppose to redistricting when there is a new school in my neighborhood area. I do not find it logical to redistrict AP based school families to an IB based school because there would be a potential turnout of pupil placements for the AP. If there was such a way this could happen, once the SB decides on which communities are to be redistricted to a school of a different program such as in this case, there should be a time line to address all the issues and possibly come up with a referendum for the AP vs IB before starting a school year. I still think this process has been very rushed if this RD goes through and starts this fall.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 09:29AM

At this stage, it's no longer about the school. It's about fairness, justice.

I'm appalled the flawed process can carry so long, the objective is so 'subjective' and weak, the way the SL PTSA/FME PTA/SB band wagon together, and attacking people with different views one way or another, the way they claim listened to people yet so conveniently drop Floris' community input to the point they tried to stop them from talking,and be so arrogant and oblivious to minorities. Like an earlier post said, the scar is there.

Floris got switched to WFH, people accept it and pitch in all heartedly. Yet their reward is this? It's not about change itself, it's how it's done. I for one, cannot recover from this wound and will not send my children there.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exactly ()
Date: February 22, 2008 09:44AM

>
> Child of an Immigrant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent
> giving
> > back in the schools, and my children attend
> school
> > with many Asian families. Why is this all
> about
> > them and what they want? Have they not
> discovered
> > that this Country is driven by those who give
> > back?
> >
> > Many Asian parents at the hearings spoke of the
> > dangers at SL. How do they compare with
> Tianaman
> > Square or North Korea?

I came from Tiananmen Square. We were yearning for a democracy in China like the American has. That's why we erected a statue of liberty at Tainanmen square.

After dealing with SB and going through the redistricting process, we realized what is true American democracy. The SB is no better than the old Chinese government, only more deceitful.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 22, 2008 09:55AM

I wonder if South Lakes Athletic Booster Club will be offering an exchange or trade in program, so that all of the Bull Dog, Cougar, and Warhawk seat cushions, sweatshirts, bumper stickers etc. can be exchanged for Seahawk items free of charge? Maybe the SB can add a line item in the budget for South Lakes to be able to do this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: See Hawk ()
Date: February 22, 2008 10:12AM

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At this stage, it's no longer about the school.
> It's about fairness, justice.
>
> I'm appalled the flawed process can carry so long,
> the objective is so 'subjective' and weak, the way
> the SL PTSA/FME PTA/SB band wagon together, and
> attacking people with different views one way or
> another, the way they claim listened to people yet
> so conveniently drop Floris' community input to
> the point they tried to stop them from talking,and
> be so arrogant and oblivious to minorities. Like
> an earlier post said, the scar is there.
>
> Floris got switched to WFH, people accept it and
> pitch in all heartedly. Yet their reward is this?
> It's not about change itself, it's how it's done.
> I for one, cannot recover from this wound and will
> not send my children there.


Ok. We'll move on without you. Good luck to you and your children.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 10:14AM

Good luck, "see" hawk. Hope you'll learn from this to treat new comers with dignity.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 22, 2008 10:23AM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if South Lakes Athletic Booster Club will
> be offering an exchange or trade in program, so
> that all of the Bull Dog, Cougar, and Warhawk seat
> cushions, sweatshirts, bumper stickers etc. can be
> exchanged for Seahawk items free of charge? Maybe
> the SB can add a line item in the budget for South
> Lakes to be able to do this.

It's not up to the School Board on PTA or Booster funds. When new schools open the PTA's usually strike a deal and some cash reluctantly is released to follow the moving families. At the high school level where families might have contributed a lot more than buying school stuff, those PTA's and Boosters should be commencing negotiations now with a moderator from the FCCPTA's. Include the elementaries and community since they also buy stuff/contribute.

Did FCPS pay for everything at Westfield like snack bars, bathrooms at the football field or was a lot booster money? It's not like college or private school where if my kid was at Paul vi and I gave a donation. The kid would leave if thrown out. This is not a person's decison and I know how schools hit on parents-community members for money.

Even if there's no change, I wouldn't give 1 cent to the spineless PTA-Booster at Westfield that took over 8 million on an addition and now says it's too big.

They and Smith deserve a secondary school or a boundary change from other Chantilly schools like reworking Poplar Tree-Greenbrier west island, brookfield, etc. Who do these people think they are with shallow victories in stuff like footballl when they have a much bigger pool for the team?

IMHO you should be able to turn in stuff and get a full cash refund from the school 's boosters and PTA plus staff should peel off the bumper stickers - Smith wants people out - let her and her buddies do it.

If you want SL's stuff then buy it later - or let the SL's boundary committee fund a Welcome Gift along with PTA dues waiver.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Don'tThinkSo ()
Date: February 22, 2008 10:26AM

AP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At this stage, it's no longer about the school.
> It's about fairness, justice.
>


I totally agree. What’s even more unacceptable is that SL know they only need around 300 kids and they also know most kids will not show up so they purposely trying their best to get 700+ kids area to SL so that hope at least 300 kids will show up. Even the FCPS official publicly said that they don’t expect all kids will show up.

What a shame, just to be able to get some warm bodies to fill the school, SL and SB have no pity to destroy hundreds of families life. I can’t believe this and will not send my children there.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AsianParent ()
Date: February 22, 2008 10:42AM

Child of an Immigrant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are we singling out Asian parents to praise
> them for speaking at the hearings? I heard West
> Africans and Indians and parents of other
> nationalities speaking as well. I admire EVERYONE
> for speaking. What about the shy white person who
> has never before spoken publicly?
>
> Asian families have been welcomed into this
> Country with open arms. They have won life's
> lottery. Not only have they been allowed to escape
> oppresive or poor regimes, buy apparently God has
> gifted many of them with high IQs and their
> cultures have given them a strong work ethic.
>
> Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent giving
> back in the schools, and my children attend school
> with many Asian families. Why is this all about
> them and what they want? Have they not discovered
> that this Country is driven by those who give
> back?
>
> As a child of an immigrant who gave back, I am
> appalled at the self-serving attitudes dispalyed
> at the hearings and I really resent the victim
> card played by many. They are not victims. They
> are fortunate indeed.
>
> Many Asian parents at the hearings spoke of the
> dangers at SL. How do they compare with Tianaman
> Square or North Korea?

You are full of bias against Asian families. I am an Asian and I have volunteered a lot of time for our communites and school PTA events etc. In your mind, Asia means North Korea and living here is like winning a lottery. Have you ever visited Hong Kong, China and Japan? I bet you haven't even left this country and therefore in your mind, US is the only place you know. If you know Asia better, you will know that, a lot of people come here for exploring and make a change to their lives, not necessarily getting a better life.
You mentioned you are a child of an immigrant who gave back, that implied that, your parents did not invovle much in communities as well. Bear in mind, for people like your parents, and for new immigrant from Asia, there are language barriages and cultural barriage that to some extent prevent them from serving more time to the communities. Go ask your parents how hard it was when they first settled down with all the cultural differences. Go ask your parents how hard it would be for them if they need to speak in public without a fluent English.
In you racial mind, what you are thinking is that, Asian are fortunate enough to live here in the US and therefore, they should suffer whatever they are forced into and should not have the right to complain.
Shame on your and shame of your immigrant parents who raised a ignorant child like you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ShameOnChildofImmigrant ()
Date: February 22, 2008 11:11AM

Child of an Immigrant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are we singling out Asian parents to praise
> them for speaking at the hearings? I heard West
> Africans and Indians and parents of other
> nationalities speaking as well. I admire EVERYONE
> for speaking. What about the shy white person who
> has never before spoken publicly?
>
> Asian families have been welcomed into this
> Country with open arms. They have won life's
> lottery. Not only have they been allowed to escape
> oppresive or poor regimes, buy apparently God has
> gifted many of them with high IQs and their
> cultures have given them a strong work ethic.
>
> Yet I have witnessed very few Asian parent giving
> back in the schools, and my children attend school
> with many Asian families. Why is this all about
> them and what they want? Have they not discovered
> that this Country is driven by those who give
> back?
>
> As a child of an immigrant who gave back, I am
> appalled at the self-serving attitudes dispalyed
> at the hearings and I really resent the victim
> card played by many. They are not victims. They
> are fortunate indeed.
>
> Many Asian parents at the hearings spoke of the
> dangers at SL. How do they compare with Tianaman
> Square or North Korea?


First of all, do you realize that India is part of Asia? It shows how stupid you are to seperate Indian from Asian parents.
Your parents must be very shame on you to claim that you are a child of immigrant while showing all the bias against Asian Immigrant. You must be the kind of immigrant children who feel embarrased by your parents' accent and have no self esteem so that you need to show your bias to new Asian immigrant to show that you are better than all of them.
Now, you compared life here and Tiananamn Square or North Korea. Do you realize that, African American suffered the same kind of racial discrimination that most of the Asian are suffering right now? Do you realize how bad life was for African American 30 years ago in US?
What kind of nonsense is that to say living here is like winning lottery? Did your immigrant parents teach you that?
Go read some books in history, and learn different cultures before you show your bias towards Asian. I bet you have no clue where places like Hong Kong, TaiWan, Banglore, New Dehli, Beijing located. I highly recommend you to read a book, "the world is flat". You will understand that, someday, you, or your children will need to do take a job that work with Asian companies.
I am a new immigrant and I am proud of my culture, and I teach my children in a way that, they will be proud of their origin and culture. I tried my best to volunteer to the society and I donate money to people in need every year. I appreciate US accepted me with open arms and my children all involved in community services. However, I don't feel winning a lottery. I work hard to earn what I have.
Except native Indians, ancestors of all American people are immigrants. I am sure that you will not understand this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Asican ()
Date: February 22, 2008 11:13AM

Please ... refrain from using "We Asian Parents" or "We" in posting here. You only represent no more than yourself. You are inviting attacks by generalizing your own narrow mind of view into a larger Asian community consensus.

I am for the RD because I think the SB has obligations for looking after students of the entire county.

Lastly keep the China democracy shit to yourself. It is irrelevant here and once again your own opinion.



What kind of Child of an Immigrant yo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, You are wrong!
>
> We Asian parents ...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 11:18AM

Is this the first time you claim you are Asian? Interesting you can't spell Asian yet claim you are one?


Another Asican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please ... refrain from using "We Asian Parents"
> or "We" in posting here. You only represent no
> more than yourself. You are inviting attacks by
> generalizing your own narrow mind of view into a
> larger Asian community consensus.
>
> I am for the RD because I think the SB has
> obligations for looking after students of the
> entire county.
>
> Lastly keep the China democracy shit to yourself.
> It is irrelevant here and once again your own
> opinion.
>
>
>
> What kind of Child of an Immigrant yo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, You are wrong!
> >
> > We Asian parents ...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FeelBadForAsianParents ()
Date: February 22, 2008 11:27AM

I could not believe how rude the SB members treated those Asian parents during the 2/21 public hearing. It took a lot of courage for them to stand up there to fight for their kids. Yet, they were disrupted by some of the board members time and time again.
The RD does not affect me. However, looking at the options, each one of them included East Floris. I am curious what exactly the SB members wanted to hear from those Asian parents knowing that all three options would put them into SLHS. In that case, should those Asian parents have the right to show their opinions?
As a non-Asian parent, I have my deepest sympathy for those Asian parents and their children are fortunate enough to have parents who were willing to stand up and fight for them. The SB members should be shamed on the way they treated those Asian parents.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Don'tWorry ()
Date: February 22, 2008 11:37AM

Don't worry. Nobody included you in 'We Asian parents'.

Another Asican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please ... refrain from using "We Asian Parents"
> or "We" in posting here. You only represent no
> more than yourself. You are inviting attacks by
> generalizing your own narrow mind of view into a
> larger Asian community consensus.
>
> I am for the RD because I think the SB has
> obligations for looking after students of the
> entire county.
>
> Lastly keep the China democracy shit to yourself.
> It is irrelevant here and once again your own
> opinion.
>
>
>
> What kind of Child of an Immigrant yo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, You are wrong!
> >
> > We Asian parents ...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: lizard ()
Date: February 22, 2008 11:46AM

AP--you wrote:

"I for one, cannot recover from this wound and will not send my children there."

There you go--you, and anyone else who is of the same mindset, make this sound as if it's all about you. It's not, it's about your children. I assure you that if you provide good guidance and solid values at home, they will prosper wherever they are placed in the school system. Why? Because they look to you first for a proper attitude about school, and life in general. So, if you continue to harp on how cheated you feel, they will feel cheated as well. If you model a great attitude of coping with change, they will cope well with change.

You want wounds? Try living in the inner city, the impoverished deep South, or a dying farm community. Start appreciating the fact that you are fortunate to be able to live here. You need to stop thinking of yourself and think of the community. You are poisoning your children with your thinking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Social Capital ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:10PM

Dear Newcomers (to the US): Democracy does not mean you get to vote on every last thing. Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

Our country is great because it counts on people to participate at every level of community on an ongoing basis. People are obliged to keep themselves informed every day about the issues that concern them. They are obliged prioritize their concerns so they can allocate their time wisely. They are obliged to understand the way our system of government works so they can influence that system -- by casting votes when that is called for, by participating in the process itself, by using persuasive arguments, by volunteering. (You can also revolt using arms, but be careful what you wish for in that case!)

We have chosen NOT to decide every last little issue by majority rule. Otherwise, we all would be spending 24/7 deciding where roads should be built, how much to pay firefighters, how to allocate teachers, which issues to address at which public institutions, how to interpret a drunk driving case, etc. Instead, we have set up a government that we trust to do that work for us.

You see, our country relies on what's called "social capital." This relies on ongoing trust that our institutions work and our leaders will make good decisions on our behalf, and do so with the greater good in mind. There will always be flaws in this system, but every single country where there is no social capital like this is unstable at best, and tyrannical at worst. More than half the countries in the world suffer horribly from lack of social capital.

If you want a system where you vote on every last decision and have abiding distrust in others to do good work on your behalf, and where individual desire always trump the needs of the whole, you have come to the wrong country. But you are welcome to start a commune and run it that way yourself. That is your right in this great country.

Otherwise, please become familiar with the 400-year history that has allowed individuals the power to participate and make changes in a way that does not destroy the fabric of our society.

There is a wonderful saying attributed to Thomas Jefferson (though it was really Wendell Phillips): "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

This doesn't mean we FIGHT everything. It means we PAY ATTENTION -- all along, not just when issues come to a head. The idea is to prevent things from getting to the point of revolution to begin with. Thus, people in this boundary debate were obliged to pay attention over the last few years to issues related to our schools and equity and population changes and the processes that cause change, and to consider their own individual desires against the good of the whole community of which they are a part. All along.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: mr e ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:15PM

So how many white parents volunteer? I bet it is the wealthier moms who don't have to work. Do any of you understand that in most countries parents dont do what American parents do at the schools. Look at Europe, you dont see parents volunteering like in the US. So give everyone a break and stop saying they have to do as we do just because they moved here. Child of an immigrant, your pretty much implying your parents didn't volunteer. So you are, so in 20 years, we will see the children of these immigrants volunteer, since they will have grown up here, and will have become used to the culture. I bet there are immigrant parents who do volunteer when they have the time, just as the white parents do it as well.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Social Capital ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:25PM

"To whom much is given, much is expected." Luke 12:48

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:35PM

Why don't you tell Langley people to think more about the community. Actually, it not think more about the community, it to think more and give more to YOUR community. It's so funny I've been told again and again what is best for my children. Why are all of you before this RD? Why all of my children's well being so important to you. If I can't be treated fairly, what make I believe they can? Just forget about it.

lizard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP--you wrote:
>
> "I for one, cannot recover from this wound and
> will not send my children there."
>
> There you go--you, and anyone else who is of the
> same mindset, make this sound as if it's all about
> you. It's not, it's about your children. I assure
> you that if you provide good guidance and solid
> values at home, they will prosper wherever they
> are placed in the school system. Why? Because they
> look to you first for a proper attitude about
> school, and life in general. So, if you continue
> to harp on how cheated you feel, they will feel
> cheated as well. If you model a great attitude of
> coping with change, they will cope well with
> change.
>
> You want wounds? Try living in the inner city, the
> impoverished deep South, or a dying farm
> community. Start appreciating the fact that you
> are fortunate to be able to live here. You need to
> stop thinking of yourself and think of the
> community. You are poisoning your children with
> your thinking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:38PM

Why don't you tell Langley people to think more about the community? Actually, it is not think more about the community, it is to think more and give more to YOUR community. It's so funny I've been told again and again what is best for my children. Where are all of you before this RD? Why all of my children's well being so important to you? If I can't be treated fairly, what make me believe they will be? Just forget about it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:44PM

To Social Capital:
"Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith,let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it." -- Abe Lincoln

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Cornholio ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:49PM

"I am the Great Cornholio....I need TEEPEE...for my BUNGHOLE" -- Cornholio

Options: ReplyQuote
Asian parent volunteers
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:50PM

Asian parents volunteer if they are asked to help in a way that does not require then to speak, read and write fluent English. They gladly donate homemade food to PTA and other school functions, and offer their computer, artistic, or other skills when asked. Sometimes, they have to be asked in their native language, which means finding a bilingual parent to call them. Sometimes, they do not understand that the federal, state and local governments in the US do not provide everything in the public schools, and that parents supplement and support curricular and extracurricular offerings. Once this is explained to them, Asian parents in my experience have been very generous.

mr e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So how many white parents volunteer? I bet it is
> the wealthier moms who don't have to work. Do any
> of you understand that in most countries parents
> dont do what American parents do at the schools.
> Look at Europe, you dont see parents volunteering
> like in the US. So give everyone a break and stop
> saying they have to do as we do just because they
> moved here. Child of an immigrant, your pretty
> much implying your parents didn't volunteer. So
> you are, so in 20 years, we will see the children
> of these immigrants volunteer, since they will
> have grown up here, and will have become used to
> the culture. I bet there are immigrant parents who
> do volunteer when they have the time, just as the
> white parents do it as well.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fm/c/o parent ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:51PM

"Dear Newcomers (to the US): Democracy does not mean you get to vote on every last thing. Sorry. Doesn't work that way."

Wow, this has really been a low point this morning for SL/immigrant relations. First we have Child of an Immigrant saying that Asians don't help out at the schools, now we have Social Capital giving history and democracy lessons. Don't you get it, you are just digging yourselves in deeper every time you insult people. Bigotry and racism indeed! (to use your own words...)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Cornhole ()
Date: February 22, 2008 12:54PM

"I am the Great Cornholio....I need TEEPEE...for my BUNGHOLE" -- Cornholio

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Re: Asian parent volunteers
Posted by: Lester Burnham ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:15PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Asian parents volunteer if they are asked to help
> in a way that does not require then to speak, read
> and write fluent English. They gladly donate
> homemade food to PTA and other school functions,
> and offer their computer, artistic, or other
> skills when asked. Sometimes, they have to be
> asked in their native language, which means
> finding a bilingual parent to call them.
> Sometimes, they do not understand that the
> federal, state and local governments in the US do
> not provide everything in the public schools, and
> that parents supplement and support curricular and
> extracurricular offerings. Once this is explained
> to them, Asian parents in my experience have been
> very generous.
>
> mr e Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So how many white parents volunteer? I bet it
> is
> > the wealthier moms who don't have to work. Do
> any
> > of you understand that in most countries
> parents
> > dont do what American parents do at the
> schools.
> > Look at Europe, you dont see parents
> volunteering
> > like in the US. So give everyone a break and
> stop
> > saying they have to do as we do just because
> they
> > moved here. Child of an immigrant, your pretty
> > much implying your parents didn't volunteer. So
> > you are, so in 20 years, we will see the
> children
> > of these immigrants volunteer, since they will
> > have grown up here, and will have become used
> to
> > the culture. I bet there are immigrant parents
> who
> > do volunteer when they have the time, just as
> the
> > white parents do it as well.


I can't speak to Asian parents specifically, but my experience has been that many foreign parents are more willing to throw money at an activity in lieu of offering their time. The concept of "volunteering" does not exist in many cultures and it is not uncommon for those coming from more affluent backgrounds to view this as beneath them.

I saw this a lot with our crew team which requires a significant parent time commitment in addition to money. There is no practical way to contract out to a third party many of the tasks required to run a rowing regatta, but we had a lot of parents willing to pay an additional $300-500 in order to not work for 1/2 day supporting their kid's sport.

Not to say that affluent white parents did not try the same thing at times, but they generally tend to understand that money does not get cars washed or programs sold.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Social Capital ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:15PM

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Dear Newcomers (to the US): Democracy does not
> mean you get to vote on every last thing. Sorry.
> Doesn't work that way."
>
> Wow, this has really been a low point this morning
> for SL/immigrant relations. First we have Child of
> an Immigrant saying that Asians don't help out at
> the schools, now we have Social Capital giving
> history and democracy lessons. Don't you get it,
> you are just digging yourselves in deeper every
> time you insult people. Bigotry and racism indeed!
> (to use your own words...)

Your accusation that SL supporters are racists and bigots won't win you any points.

The issue here is that many people at the hearings said flatly that they came to this country thinking democracy meant they could choose their schools (which they can't in this county) and thinking that majority rules all the time and that the majority doesn't want to change schools. They were patently wrong on the first two points, and have no basis for the second, since "majority" would have to include every single Fairfax County citizen and taxpayer, who support the schools -- and everything else we pay for. And there is no basis for thinking every one of them would vote against the changes called for in this study.

While many of these people -- who called themselves immigrants (not my word) -- are to be greatly admired for participating in the process, the have a lot to learn about how our system works. This is true of just about any immigrant group at any point in history. While many do come with full knowledge of what their adopting, most immigrants only have surface information and are frequently presented with a shallow version of democracy from their universities (which, ahem, often have no love of it), US AID, and television before they arrive.

If you ignore this fact, then you are abrogating your responsibility as an informed US citizen to help our incoming friends and neighbors become full partners in our commmunity. You do them no service by supporting their misunderstandings.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Great ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:20PM

"I am the Great Cornholio....I need TEEPEE...for my BUNGHOLE" -- Cornholio

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Whats To Fear? ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:23PM

I have to ask: If there is such incredible support for diversity and all the good things immigrants can bring to our country, then why are so many people so fearful of going to a school that celebrates this very diversity and that has adopted a world-class education program that (in part) helps prepare students for living in a global society?

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 22, 2008 01:25PM

Social Capital Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The issue here is that many people at the hearings
> said flatly that they came to this country
> thinking democracy meant they could choose their
> schools (which they can't in this county) and
> thinking that majority rules all the time and that
> the majority doesn't want to change schools. They
> were patently wrong on the first two points, and
> have no basis for the second, since "majority"
> would have to include every single Fairfax County
> citizen and taxpayer, who support the schools --
> and everything else we pay for. And there is no
> basis for thinking every one of them would vote
> against the changes called for in this study.
>
>

Social Capital, I would disagree on your attributing these beliefs to immigrants per se. It seems the CAPS groups has these same beliefs. Maybe they are at fault for spreading this type of misinformation about how our school system and government works.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:27PM

The Great Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I am the Great Cornholio....I need TEEPEE...for
> my BUNGHOLE" -- Cornholio


If you want to keep on posting this post, do this in a new thread! Bound to get "quotes" from all these posters. Cornholio?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Social Capital ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:27PM


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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Social Capital ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:35PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Social Capital Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > The issue here is that many people at the
> hearings
> > said flatly that they came to this country
> > thinking democracy meant they could choose
> their
> > schools (which they can't in this county) and
> > thinking that majority rules all the time and
> that
> > the majority doesn't want to change schools.
> They
> > were patently wrong on the first two points,
> and
> > have no basis for the second, since "majority"
> > would have to include every single Fairfax
> County
> > citizen and taxpayer, who support the schools
> --
> > and everything else we pay for. And there is no
> > basis for thinking every one of them would vote
> > against the changes called for in this study.
> >
> >
>
> Social Capital, I would disagree on your
> attributing these beliefs to immigrants per se.
> It seems the CAPS groups has these same beliefs.
> Maybe they are at fault for spreading this type of
> misinformation about how our school system and
> government works.

Actually, I was going to point out the fact that many speakers (all kinds) used CAPS language verbatim, which is evidence they didn't do due diligence themselves. And evidence they misunderstand their obligation to be informed citizens. I believe CAPS has done a terrible disservice to our new citizens especially. It has put them in the position of defending untenable positions that I believe many were hoodwinked into taking.

But you can believe that by stating this, I would be called a bigot since I'd be assuming Asians couldn't think for themselves. That wouldn't be the point. CAPS has been blatantly and assertively recruiting converts by appealing to their most fundamental fears -- that the very reasons our neighbors came here in the first place at such costs to themselves -- better education and opportunity for their kids -- are being hideously threatened. I think this is despicable of CAPS.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fairness!=Fear ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:43PM

Whats To Fear? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to ask: If there is such incredible support
> for diversity and all the good things immigrants
> can bring to our country, then why are so many
> people so fearful of going to a school that
> celebrates this very diversity and that has
> adopted a world-class education program that (in
> part) helps prepare students for living in a
> global society?

If you follow the whole process, you will realize that, people are asking to be treated fairly. They are not afraid to send their kids to SLHS if the process is fair. But this process is full of flaws. And moving warm bodies from middle class, highly Asian concentrated neighborhood will not resolve the root problem of SLHS. Langley is in closer proximity of SLHS and not being included in the study.
East Floris has gone through 8 changes through the last 9 years. Can you honestly say that, it's fair? Due to the fact that there are high concentration of Asian new immigrant families living their with high achieving students, can you deny the fact that, they are indeed being targeted on purpose? Do you think school board will move East Floris to SLHS if those are low achieving students. SLHS did not want McNairs because McNairs is a title I school with less high achieving students. If East Floris is a Title I school, then they would not be RDed into SLHS. It's the fact. The whole purpose of this RD is to move high score warm bodies into SLHS to raise the test scores of SLHS. Do you think those kids that need help the most in SLHS will benefit from it? Not at all.
Where is the fairness? I don't see how you can mix up diversity with sending kids to a higher ranking school. If school ranking does not matter, that why there is school ranking published every year in US nationwide? Why housing prices around good ranking school are more expensive.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fm/c/o parent ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:43PM

Whats To Fear? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to ask: If there is such incredible support
> for diversity and all the good things immigrants
> can bring to our country, then why are so many
> people so fearful of going to a school that
> celebrates this very diversity and that has
> adopted a world-class education program that (in
> part) helps prepare students for living in a
> global society?


Who said we are fearful? Lots of people think this process has been poorly handled and think that there isn't a clear reason for this redistricting. That doesn't mean we are fearful. Those of us who already have ties to a high school and also have younger children don't believe that our families will be well-served by being moved. Some people are wondering if SL is really as great as its supporters claim. There is certainly room for a variety of opinions on that.

At any rate, Madison, Westfield, and Oakton are also diverse (though maybe not in the same ways or to the same extent as SL). My kids who attended Carson loved the diversity there.

Every time a non-SL person expresses any misgivings about moving to SL, it seems like some SL person tells them they are wrong, ignorant of IB, racist, etc. My use of the words "bigotry and racism" is a direct newspaper quote from an SL supporter. There are some of us who started as favoring our high schools but more or less neutral about SL. The attacks on our character haven't been very persuasive. At this point I plan to try to pupil place my 8th grader. Maybe if somehow things work out well with RD in a few years my youngest child could attend SL. So, while I'd prefer to stay with Oakton, my the back up plan includes having a successful RD. But you don't make it easy to find common ground when you tell us what jerks we are. If you keep that up you will not have many students from Fox Mill or Floris for many years.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:45PM

Why is it so difficult to understand that many families who are opposed to the RD, are not anti-South Lakes? Most of us have established long term ties to the schools in which are currently enrolled. Many of us have donated much time and monetary support for the High Schools in which we currently attend. Many us us enjoy supporting the Sports teams and other clubs that our children and their schoolmates participate in.("Go Westfield in the basketball Distric Final against Chantilly"). Many of us are very happy with the quality of the education that our children are getting in the school in which we are currently enrolled. Many of us have established carpools and other cooporative means of making sure that our children are able to get to and fro. Again I ask, why is it so difficult to understand why we choose not to change.

For those of us who are not happy with our current schools, whether it be due to the academic curriculum, the quality of the sports teams or the fact that our kids cannot make the team, the lack of electives, too much diversity etc etc etc, we have the option of Pupil Placing out to another school that is a better fit, or moving to another neighborhood that does offer what we want.

This is the very same option that is available to each and every student and parent who is in the South Lakes HS district now. It would seem to me that for those of you who feel that South Lakes is lacking in areas that you feel are important to your student, you would take advantage of the same liberal Pupil placement policies that are available to all of us. (many of the current SL parents and students do this already), rather than complaining, and trying to drag our children into your school.

Wanting no change is NOT anti South Lakes for Gods Sake! We just happen to enjoy the opportunities that our current school offers.

If you are not happy with the current affairs at your school at South Lakes, either move, or Pupil Place into a school that you will be happy with.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: GAME PLAN ()
Date: February 22, 2008 02:01PM

The best defense is a good offense.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: GAME PLAN ()
Date: February 22, 2008 02:05PM

If you cant dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 22, 2008 02:13PM

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whats To Fear? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have to ask: If there is such incredible
> support
> > for diversity and all the good things
> immigrants
> > can bring to our country, then why are so many
> > people so fearful of going to a school that
> > celebrates this very diversity and that has
> > adopted a world-class education program that
> (in
> > part) helps prepare students for living in a
> > global society?
>
>
> Who said we are fearful? Lots of people think this
> process has been poorly handled and think that
> there isn't a clear reason for this redistricting.
> That doesn't mean we are fearful. Those of us who
> already have ties to a high school and also have
> younger children don't believe that our families
> will be well-served by being moved. Some people
> are wondering if SL is really as great as its
> supporters claim. There is certainly room for a
> variety of opinions on that.
>
> At any rate, Madison, Westfield, and Oakton are
> also diverse (though maybe not in the same ways or
> to the same extent as SL). My kids who attended
> Carson loved the diversity there.
>
> Every time a non-SL person expresses any
> misgivings about moving to SL, it seems like some
> SL person tells them they are wrong, ignorant of
> IB, racist, etc. My use of the words "bigotry and
> racism" is a direct newspaper quote from an SL
> supporter. There are some of us who started as
> favoring our high schools but more or less neutral
> about SL. The attacks on our character haven't
> been very persuasive. At this point I plan to try
> to pupil place my 8th grader. Maybe if somehow
> things work out well with RD in a few years my
> youngest child could attend SL. So, while I'd
> prefer to stay with Oakton, my the back up plan
> includes having a successful RD. But you don't
> make it easy to find common ground when you tell
> us what jerks we are. If you keep that up you
> will not have many students from Fox Mill or
> Floris for many years.


My sentiments exactly. For me personally, fear has nothing with not wanting to send my 8th grade kid to SL. I will plan on pupil placing my kid out..together my kid and I chose Oakton for specific reasons due to my kid's academic needs. Now with this RD thanks to the kind disruption and very unfair process, I will have to pupil place my kid out. It is about wanting to do so. Being chided and saying "you have an attitude problem" or comments such as racism or fearful or all that crap and having to say your kid must come to our school. That would be unfair things to say to those who oppose the RD. Now if things improve with SL in several years when my youngest start high school and my oldest in college, my youngest just might go to SL. Please for those who are SL supporters do not label those who oppose the RD as fearful or racist.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Corn ()
Date: February 22, 2008 02:28PM

"I am the Great Cornholio....I need TEEPEE...for my BUNGHOLE" -- Cornholio

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 22, 2008 02:33PM

Corn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I am the Great Cornholio....I need TEEPEE...for
> my BUNGHOLE" -- Cornholio


You know, I visited the "Cornholio" website and found nothing amusing about it. What does this have to with the high school redistricting thread? I am assuming this is a teen who keeps posting this "quote".

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Change Isn't Easy ()
Date: February 22, 2008 02:52PM

> Due to the fact that there are high
> concentration of Asian new immigrant families
> living their with high achieving students, can you
> deny the fact that, they are indeed being targeted
> on purpose? Do you think school board will move
> East Floris to SLHS if those are low achieving
> students. SLHS did not want McNairs because
> McNairs is a title I school with less high
> achieving students. If East Floris is a Title I
> school, then they would not be RDed into SLHS.
> It's the fact. The whole purpose of this RD is to
> move high score warm bodies into SLHS to raise the
> test scores of SLHS. Do you think those kids that
> need help the most in SLHS will benefit from it?
> Not at all.
> Where is the fairness? I don't see how you can mix
> up diversity with sending kids to a higher ranking
> school. If school ranking does not matter, that
> why there is school ranking published every year
> in US nationwide? Why housing prices around good
> ranking school are more expensive.

This is really warped. Now the anti-RD anti-South Lakes people are claiming South Lakes wants Floris for its achieving Asian kids. Excuse me, but there isn't a single solitary piece of evidence anywhere that anybody associated with South Lakes "went after" Floris for this purpose -- or any other. The only people crowing about how great and wonderful and achieving Asian kids are, are those who don't want a change. Not that those kids aren't all that. But attribute your assertions correctly.

And now I can imagine that Westfield and Chantilly is worried sick that they might "lose" this population. Could that be it? Who cares? BTW, I would like to hear, just once, how keeping Floris at Westfield and Fox Mill at Oakton benefits those entire communities such that, for the very same reasons, those families wouldn't benefit South Lakes.

What's going on here is that anti-RD people are grasping at every possible straw to hang onto their liferafts because the alternative, they have clearly implied, is going to a stinkin' school that will destroy their kids' friendships and fragile communities. That is one of the mentalities at work.

Supporters are saying, very simply:

1) There are too few students at South Lakes for an equitable and robust schedule of courses -- due to slowly diminishing student populations from natural causes

2) There are two sister schools that have way more students than they need.

3) Those students live far closer to South Lakes than to those schools.

4) Because we are a county-wide system, the school board is obliged to make adjustments from time to time to distribute resources equitably and ensure every student has equal opportunity in education.

5) This boundary change keeps neighborhoods together and as far as possible keeps elementary schools together.

6) This boundary change helps rectify socioeconomic disparities that do no good to the students who suffer from it.

7) This boundary change sends students from one outstanding academic program to another and thus does no harm.

8) This boundary change helps ensure that the entirety of the Fairfax County Public School system remains among the top in the nation.

9) Children are resilient and will thrive anywhere if they have parental support and advocacy, and they are very good at maintaing friendships across school boundaries because they do it every day, from preschool through college and beyond.

10) Parents in the redistricted communities are being asked to think of the needs of the whole -- and of 1,400 children in South Lakes -- and have faith in their own children.

11) The parents involved with this at South Lakes are thinking not just of their own children, every one of whom will do just fine if nothing changed, but of their entire school community, including those very many with no voice and those very many for whom this adjustment is needed.

I don't see where racism, bigotry, selfishness, or any other crime RD supporters are now accused of comes into play. Change is never easy. But it is frequently necessary.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: HooTribe ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:00PM

> Corn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "I am the Great Cornholio....I need
> TEEPEE...for
> > my BUNGHOLE" -- Cornholio
>
>

OK, Stu, the joke is getting old now. Back to work.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Child of an Immigrant ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:06PM

I am glad that Asians speaking here do participate in their schools, which is different from my experience. But they are wrong about something. I am not from South Lakes.

Who has shown the most prejudice? Those who assumed I was from South Lakes, or me?
Look at all the assumptions made that were used to attack the South Lakes community.

My family came with nothing and they were/are grateful to be here. They worked hard, just like you, and they would never dream of comparing life here or our School Board and the redistricting to the tyrants and murderers that they escaped.

Think before you speak.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: notSoSimple ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:06PM

You are wrong. "Change Isn't Easy" - The issue goes much beyond what you say. Madison and Langley are overcrowded and much closer to SL, but they are bussing students from far away floris. The fact that they dont want to touch the rich areas of Langley and Madison when it makes perfect sence - take the students from overcrowded schools closest to problem area - shows that there is indeed discrimination in all of these. Westfield and Chantilly are not overcrowded by their capacity figures. This whole thing is a lie to exclude Langley and Madison. That is why it is wrong.
It is also wrong to spend so much resources on IB when 20 students benifit from IB diploma and the rest 1500+ pay the price for the benifit of 20 students.

Change Isn't Easy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Due to the fact that there are high
> > concentration of Asian new immigrant families
> > living their with high achieving students, can
> you
> > deny the fact that, they are indeed being
> targeted
> > on purpose? Do you think school board will move
> > East Floris to SLHS if those are low achieving
> > students. SLHS did not want McNairs because
> > McNairs is a title I school with less high
> > achieving students. If East Floris is a Title I
> > school, then they would not be RDed into SLHS.
> > It's the fact. The whole purpose of this RD is
> to
> > move high score warm bodies into SLHS to raise
> the
> > test scores of SLHS. Do you think those kids
> that
> > need help the most in SLHS will benefit from
> it?
> > Not at all.
> > Where is the fairness? I don't see how you can
> mix
> > up diversity with sending kids to a higher
> ranking
> > school. If school ranking does not matter, that
> > why there is school ranking published every
> year
> > in US nationwide? Why housing prices around
> good
> > ranking school are more expensive.
>
> This is really warped. Now the anti-RD anti-South
> Lakes people are claiming South Lakes wants Floris
> for its achieving Asian kids. Excuse me, but there
> isn't a single solitary piece of evidence anywhere
> that anybody associated with South Lakes "went
> after" Floris for this purpose -- or any other.
> The only people crowing about how great and
> wonderful and achieving Asian kids are, are those
> who don't want a change. Not that those kids
> aren't all that. But attribute your assertions
> correctly.
>
> And now I can imagine that Westfield and Chantilly
> is worried sick that they might "lose" this
> population. Could that be it? Who cares? BTW, I
> would like to hear, just once, how keeping Floris
> at Westfield and Fox Mill at Oakton benefits those
> entire communities such that, for the very same
> reasons, those families wouldn't benefit South
> Lakes.
>
> What's going on here is that anti-RD people are
> grasping at every possible straw to hang onto
> their liferafts because the alternative, they have
> clearly implied, is going to a stinkin' school
> that will destroy their kids' friendships and
> fragile communities. That is one of the
> mentalities at work.
>
> Supporters are saying, very simply:
>
> 1) There are too few students at South Lakes for
> an equitable and robust schedule of courses -- due
> to slowly diminishing student populations from
> natural causes
>
> 2) There are two sister schools that have way more
> students than they need.
>
> 3) Those students live far closer to South Lakes
> than to those schools.
>
> 4) Because we are a county-wide system, the school
> board is obliged to make adjustments from time to
> time to distribute resources equitably and ensure
> every student has equal opportunity in education.
>
> 5) This boundary change keeps neighborhoods
> together and as far as possible keeps elementary
> schools together.
>
> 6) This boundary change helps rectify
> socioeconomic disparities that do no good to the
> students who suffer from it.
>
> 7) This boundary change sends students from one
> outstanding academic program to another and thus
> does no harm.
>
> 8) This boundary change helps ensure that the
> entirety of the Fairfax County Public School
> system remains among the top in the nation.
>
> 9) Children are resilient and will thrive anywhere
> if they have parental support and advocacy, and
> they are very good at maintaing friendships across
> school boundaries because they do it every day,
> from preschool through college and beyond.
>
> 10) Parents in the redistricted communities are
> being asked to think of the needs of the whole --
> and of 1,400 children in South Lakes -- and have
> faith in their own children.
>
> 11) The parents involved with this at South Lakes
> are thinking not just of their own children, every
> one of whom will do just fine if nothing changed,
> but of their entire school community, including
> those very many with no voice and those very many
> for whom this adjustment is needed.
>
> I don't see where racism, bigotry, selfishness, or
> any other crime RD supporters are now accused of
> comes into play. Change is never easy. But it is
> frequently necessary.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: GAME PLAN ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:11PM

Supporters are saying, very simply:

1) There are too few students at South Lakes for an equitable and robust schedule of courses -- due to slowly diminishing student populations from natural causes - Response- where is the evidence of this?

2) There are two sister schools that have way more students than they need.
Response-Which two schools are you speaking of certainly not Oakton.

3) Those students live far closer to South Lakes than to those schools. Response-
If proximity is the focus why not consider Langley and Madison to be fair

4) Because we are a county-wide system, the school board is obliged to make adjustments from time to time to distribute resources equitably and ensure every student has equal opportunity in education. Response- The SB may only redistrict to increase efficiency of the DISTRICT the district is defined as the county- How does bringing more students to SLHS acheive this requirement?

5) This boundary change keeps neighborhoods together and as far as possible keeps elementary schools together. Response- This is completey untrue, define neighborhood.

6) This boundary change helps rectify socioeconomic disparities that do no good to the students who suffer from it. Response- Socio Economic disparities may not be used as a justification to redistrict, check with the Attorney General of the Commonwealth- we have.

7) This boundary change sends students from one outstanding academic program to another and thus does no harm. Response- Although IB may be an outstanding program we do not view it as equivalent.

8) This boundary change helps ensure that the entirety of the Fairfax County Public School system remains among the top in the nation. Response - HOW ON EARTH does this do that?

9) Children are resilient and will thrive anywhere if they have parental support and advocacy, and they are very good at maintaing friendships across school boundaries because they do it every day, from preschool through college and beyond. Response- Resilent is used when describing ones ability to recover- lets test your child first.

10) Parents in the redistricted communities are being asked to think of the needs of the whole -- and of 1,400 children in South Lakes -- and have faith in their own children. Response-It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master. Quoting an SLHS favorite Ayn Rand

11) The parents involved with this at South Lakes are thinking not just of their own children, every one of whom will do just fine if nothing changed, but of their entire school community, including those very many with no voice and those very many for whom this adjustment -Response- correct your children will do just fine if this occurs or if it does not occur. You have a 63million dollar improvement and a new Principal.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: MoreStudents? ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:14PM

Change Isn't Easy Wrote:
>
> 2) There are two sister schools that have way more
> students than they need.
>

I have to say this one more time: Westfield doesn't have way more students. It's built and expanded with our taxpayer's money to a capacity of 3100 students. By FCPS own projection, it will under enrollment in future.

The real reason is that the big portion of top 20% kids in Westfield are from Carson. So some parents under Kathy's district complained that their kids missed the opportunity to get to good universities because their kids can't make to the top 20%. That's why Kathy wants to get rid of Floris because Floris is not her district and she wants to please those parents who vote for her.

On the public hearings, I didn't hear complains about the overcrowd issue in Westfields even after Kathy sent email encourage them to show up in public hearing. Because Westfield is at and will be under capacity and those parents can't publicly saying that they want to kick Floris kids so that their kids can go to good colleges.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: new news? ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:21PM

I heard that Stu told the head of the SL PTA that the PTA must open a dialog with the new families about a switch to AP. Anyone have more on this? Of course, it could just be an empty gesture so Stu and the PTA can say they listened. Anyone have any news or context for this report?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: politicalPloy ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:25PM

new news? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard that Stu told the head of the SL PTA that
> the PTA must open a dialog with the new families
> about a switch to AP. Anyone have more on this?
> Of course, it could just be an empty gesture so
> Stu and the PTA can say they listened. Anyone
> have any news or context for this report?

Must be another conspiracy from Stu and SL PTA. Nothing good can come out of Stu Gibson.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Agree ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:28PM

politicalPloy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> new news? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I heard that Stu told the head of the SL PTA
> that
> > the PTA must open a dialog with the new
> families
> > about a switch to AP. Anyone have more on this?
>
> > Of course, it could just be an empty gesture so
> > Stu and the PTA can say they listened. Anyone
> > have any news or context for this report?
>
> Must be another conspiracy from Stu and SL PTA.
> Nothing good can come out of Stu Gibson.


Seems just a show to other SB members.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: shoo ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:30PM

Change Isn't Easy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Due to the fact that there are high
> > concentration of Asian new immigrant families
> > living their with high achieving students, can
> you
> > deny the fact that, they are indeed being
> targeted
> > on purpose? Do you think school board will move
> > East Floris to SLHS if those are low achieving
> > students. SLHS did not want McNairs because
> > McNairs is a title I school with less high
> > achieving students. If East Floris is a Title I
> > school, then they would not be RDed into SLHS.
> > It's the fact. The whole purpose of this RD is
> to
> > move high score warm bodies into SLHS to raise
> the
> > test scores of SLHS. Do you think those kids
> that
> > need help the most in SLHS will benefit from
> it?
> > Not at all.
> > Where is the fairness? I don't see how you can
> mix
> > up diversity with sending kids to a higher
> ranking
> > school. If school ranking does not matter, that
> > why there is school ranking published every
> year
> > in US nationwide? Why housing prices around
> good
> > ranking school are more expensive.
>
> This is really warped. Now the anti-RD anti-South
> Lakes people are claiming South Lakes wants Floris
> for its achieving Asian kids. Excuse me, but there
> isn't a single solitary piece of evidence anywhere
> that anybody associated with South Lakes "went
> after" Floris for this purpose -- or any other.
> The only people crowing about how great and
> wonderful and achieving Asian kids are, are those
> who don't want a change. Not that those kids
> aren't all that. But attribute your assertions
> correctly.
>
> And now I can imagine that Westfield and Chantilly
> is worried sick that they might "lose" this
> population. Could that be it? Who cares? BTW, I
> would like to hear, just once, how keeping Floris
> at Westfield and Fox Mill at Oakton benefits those
> entire communities such that, for the very same
> reasons, those families wouldn't benefit South
> Lakes.
>
> What's going on here is that anti-RD people are
> grasping at every possible straw to hang onto
> their liferafts because the alternative, they have
> clearly implied, is going to a stinkin' school
> that will destroy their kids' friendships and
> fragile communities. That is one of the
> mentalities at work.
>
> Supporters are saying, very simply:
>
> 1) There are too few students at South Lakes for
> an equitable and robust schedule of courses -- due
> to slowly diminishing student populations from
> natural causes
>
> 2) There are two sister schools that have way more
> students than they need.
>
> 3) Those students live far closer to South Lakes
> than to those schools.
>
> 4) Because we are a county-wide system, the school
> board is obliged to make adjustments from time to
> time to distribute resources equitably and ensure
> every student has equal opportunity in education.
>
> 5) This boundary change keeps neighborhoods
> together and as far as possible keeps elementary
> schools together.
>
> 6) This boundary change helps rectify
> socioeconomic disparities that do no good to the
> students who suffer from it.
>
> 7) This boundary change sends students from one
> outstanding academic program to another and thus
> does no harm.
>
> 8) This boundary change helps ensure that the
> entirety of the Fairfax County Public School
> system remains among the top in the nation.
>
> 9) Children are resilient and will thrive anywhere
> if they have parental support and advocacy, and
> they are very good at maintaing friendships across
> school boundaries because they do it every day,
> from preschool through college and beyond.
>
> 10) Parents in the redistricted communities are
> being asked to think of the needs of the whole --
> and of 1,400 children in South Lakes -- and have
> faith in their own children.
>
> 11) The parents involved with this at South Lakes
> are thinking not just of their own children, every
> one of whom will do just fine if nothing changed,
> but of their entire school community, including
> those very many with no voice and those very many
> for whom this adjustment is needed.
>
> I don't see where racism, bigotry, selfishness, or
> any other crime RD supporters are now accused of
> comes into play. Change is never easy. But it is
> frequently necessary.


blah, blah, blah

we still are not coming

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:30PM

Many on the SB have stated their problem with voting for this boundary regards moving AP to IB. Many have said that if Stu will move SLHS to AP they will vote for the boundary.

The problem they have is obvious. If the boundary goes through SL will not get enough students to make a difference to what they claim is an under enrollment issue. The SBMs are not stupid, they dont want to risk political position by ticking off many constituents without justification. If everyone they move will pupil place out they gain nothing and lose plenty.

Unfortunately it will take more than a year to phase in AP. Another argument for a PAUSE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:36PM

The crucial trust between Stu/SLHS and the RD'd communities has long been lost, or trashed.

Agree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> politicalPloy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > new news? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I heard that Stu told the head of the SL PTA
> > that
> > > the PTA must open a dialog with the new
> > families
> > > about a switch to AP. Anyone have more on
> this?
> >
> > > Of course, it could just be an empty gesture
> so
> > > Stu and the PTA can say they listened.
> Anyone
> > > have any news or context for this report?
> >
> > Must be another conspiracy from Stu and SL PTA.
> > Nothing good can come out of Stu Gibson.
>
>
> Seems just a show to other SB members.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: tout ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:36PM

NavyGetsOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many on the SB have stated their problem with
> voting for this boundary regards moving AP to IB.
> Many have said that if Stu will move SLHS to AP
> they will vote for the boundary.
>
> The problem they have is obvious. If the boundary
> goes through SL will not get enough students to
> make a difference to what they claim is an under
> enrollment issue. The SBMs are not stupid, they
> dont want to risk political position by ticking
> off many constituents without justification. If
> everyone they move will pupil place out they gain
> nothing and lose plenty.
>
> Unfortunately it will take more than a year to
> phase in AP. Another argument for a PAUSE.

NavyGetsOut,

what happen to Navy Gets Out?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:37PM

Child of an Immigrant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am glad that Asians speaking here do participate
> in their schools, which is different from my
> experience. But they are wrong about something.
> I am not from South Lakes.
>
> Who has shown the most prejudice? Those who
> assumed I was from South Lakes, or me?
> Look at all the assumptions made that were used to
> attack the South Lakes community.

The fact that you advocate on the side of the SL pro-RD crowd is an indicator that you are associated with SL. That is not "pre-judging" per se, but an inference based on the evidence.

>
> My family came with nothing and they were/are
> grateful to be here. They worked hard, just like
> you, and they would never dream of comparing life
> here or our School Board and the redistricting to
> the tyrants and murderers that they escaped.
>
> Think before you speak.

We are happy for your family's accomplishments.

There are all kinds of tyrants, some worse than others. No one is comparing to tyrants who would deprive people of their lives, only tyrants who deprive people of their choices. Using the power of government to annex an unrepresented population amounts to oppression, in the eyes of those deprived of their choices.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:41PM

Navy will get out. Trust me on this one. There is zero support for Navy. I am unbiased when I say this.

Kathy doesnt dislike Navy. Stu doesnt gain anything by Navy going to Oakton. There is no gain having Navy in this for either of the designers of the plan. No one else cares other than for the hardship Navy would face in the new commute.

I guarantee.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:42PM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> My sentiments exactly. For me personally, fear
> has nothing with not wanting to send my 8th grade
> kid to SL. I will plan on pupil placing my kid
> out..together my kid and I chose Oakton for
> specific reasons due to my kid's academic needs.
> Now with this RD thanks to the kind disruption and
> very unfair process, I will have to pupil place my
> kid out. It is about wanting to do so. Being
> chided and saying "you have an attitude problem"
> or comments such as racism or fearful or all that
> crap and having to say your kid must come to our
> school. That would be unfair things to say to
> those who oppose the RD. Now if things improve
> with SL in several years when my youngest start
> high school and my oldest in college, my youngest
> just might go to SL. Please for those who are SL
> supporters do not label those who oppose the RD as
> fearful or racist.

Mine, too. My 8th grader isn't going to come. We've already started the ball rolling. Again, for particular reasons regarding his desires/needs and where he needs to go to get them met. My younger one might come, depending on what happens over the next 5 years or so, and (assuming SL remains IB) whether we regard IB or AP a better fit.

So, we're pretty much back to where we started.

Going or not going to South Lakes remains our choice. In the near term, South Lakes will get some kids with no other options, but, for the very angry rest of us, (and it's a high percentage), we will still need to be convinced. Unless we believe that South Lakes fits the needs of our kids, they're simply not going to come.

For Floris, the differences will be that there will be an even more fragmented Floris/Carson community, carpools where there used to be buses, money for private schools, and people moving out.

For Reston, some more kids at South Lakes, but the final end to any possibility that the Reston identity would include a Reston High School. Complete with Robert E. Simon's nail in the coffin.

Congratulations.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: See Hawk ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:48PM

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > My sentiments exactly. For me personally, fear
> > has nothing with not wanting to send my 8th
> grade
> > kid to SL. I will plan on pupil placing my kid
> > out..together my kid and I chose Oakton for
> > specific reasons due to my kid's academic needs.
>
> > Now with this RD thanks to the kind disruption
> and
> > very unfair process, I will have to pupil place
> my
> > kid out. It is about wanting to do so. Being
> > chided and saying "you have an attitude
> problem"
> > or comments such as racism or fearful or all
> that
> > crap and having to say your kid must come to
> our
> > school. That would be unfair things to say to
> > those who oppose the RD. Now if things improve
> > with SL in several years when my youngest start
> > high school and my oldest in college, my
> youngest
> > just might go to SL. Please for those who are
> SL
> > supporters do not label those who oppose the RD
> as
> > fearful or racist.
>
> Mine, too. My 8th grader isn't going to come.
> We've already started the ball rolling. Again,
> for particular reasons regarding his desires/needs
> and where he needs to go to get them met. My
> younger one might come, depending on what happens
> over the next 5 years or so, and (assuming SL
> remains IB) whether we regard IB or AP a better
> fit.
>
> So, we're pretty much back to where we started.
>
> Going or not going to South Lakes remains our
> choice. In the near term, South Lakes will get
> some kids with no other options, but, for the very
> angry rest of us, (and it's a high percentage), we
> will still need to be convinced. Unless we believe
> that South Lakes fits the needs of our kids,
> they're simply not going to come.
>
> For Floris, the differences will be that there
> will be an even more fragmented Floris/Carson
> community, carpools where there used to be buses,
> money for private schools, and people moving out.
>
> For Reston, some more kids at South Lakes, but the
> final end to any possibility that the Reston
> identity would include a Reston High School.
> Complete with Robert E. Simon's nail in the
> coffin.
>
> Congratulations.


Thanks for the heartfelt sentiments. We also deeply appreciate your concern for Reston's integrity as a community, which appear to be equally sincere.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Child of an Immigrant ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:50PM

Another Brick,

I never advocated for South Lakes. Read my posts. The people who thought I was from South Lakes were wrong and they should not have used my post to malign South Lakes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Future Seahawk ()
Date: February 22, 2008 03:59PM

Some final points on my position -

1. I'm still floored by the fact that the Madison Island could end up going - I believed that they would be left out to provide a "buffer" in the enrollment - even though Madison is over CAPACITY (I refuse to use the word crowded as it is arbitrary).

2. If Navy gets out of this, so too will Fox Mill - as absurd as it sounds

3. An amendment will pass that sends part of McNair and part of Floris to South Lakes - using the following thoughts:
a. They both share the boundary with Dogwood - thus no island, although the Floris community would have to go through Fox Mill to get there.
b. It sets the stage for "new McNair" next year to be united as a single feeder to South Lakes - yes, east Floris will not only lose Westfield, but we're probably going to lose Floris as well...

Thus:
Chantilly is not touched
Madison is possibly not touched
Floris is hosed

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Which group are you in? ()
Date: February 22, 2008 04:02PM

Just for fun, I have identified some of the groups within each camp:

Anti RD
1) RD is never an option (hell no, we won’t go!)
2) RD is OK for new schools only, not existing schools (Brand new or bust)
3) RD is OK if the school is perceived as being better than the existing school (What’s in it for me?)
4) RD is OK, SL is not (Don’t send me to that $%@ failing school!)
5) RD would be OK if the process was fair (I get to define what fair is)
6) RD is OK, just don’t move me (Leave me alone)

Pro RD
1) We need more kids for more programs (Dude, throw me a lifeline)
2) We need the best kids available (SL is moving on up – goodbye Herndon/Westfield, look out Madison/Oakton)
3) Send us more kids, it is only fair (I get to define what fair is #2)
4) IB Forever! (Save IB, save the world)

I am sure I have missed some other positions on this, so feel free to add your own. Unfortunately, these groups were never given a chance to work together. Realize that whatever the result is, this entire process has been disappointing for us all.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Who Leaves Chantilly? ()
Date: February 22, 2008 04:05PM

If Navy gets out, who gets moved out of Chantilly? Somebody has to move from Chantilly if they are going to meet the original stated goals of the study. Is there another neighborhood or school out there that will get moved?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Exactly ()
Date: February 22, 2008 04:10PM

Who Leaves Chantilly? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Navy gets out, who gets moved out of Chantilly?
> Somebody has to move from Chantilly if they are
> going to meet the original stated goals of the
> study. Is there another neighborhood or school
> out there that will get moved?


Rumor says SB now "realize" Chantilly is not over crowded after all.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 22, 2008 04:17PM

Again the thing that really interests me is that when Navy gets out, where does that leave Fox Mill? In 4 years staff assumes that FM will send 385 students from Oakton to SLHS. Navy would have replaced 200 leaving the deficit 175.


In four years according the projections Oakton would be under enrolled by 500 students without Navy. Stu asked Dean Tistadt if pulling Navy out and leaving Fox Mill to move to SLHS would be a problem in terms of Oakton to which Tistadt replied no problem. Phil N.Eichner may see that differently.

Oakton will not lack for room for Pupil Placements.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP ()
Date: February 22, 2008 04:18PM

That surely makes a lawsuit much easier.

"Rumor says SB now "realize" Chantilly is not over crowded after all."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: NavyGetsOut ()
Date: February 22, 2008 04:29PM

If Madison Island becomes an issue. See Hawk , it is not relevant because if Madison gets out there is no chain reaction.

Navy is the card that when pulled brings down the house. As I have posted so many times previously, Kathy and Stu had to go for the Hail Mary with their last minute revisions.

The house is collasping. There is a reason to keep the faith.

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