IBVeritas Wrote:
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> I think we need to focus on IB courses themselves
> and not on the IB diploma. AP used to have a
> diploma and withdrew it for kids attending US
> universities. So there is no comparison.
That's not quite what happened -
http://www.fcps.edu/woodsonhs/guidance/academics/ai_ap.htm
The College Board, sponsor of the Advanced Placement Examinations, developed a recognition named the "Advanced Placement Diploma." This diploma was piloted in a limited number of school districts, including Fairfax, in the United States for the classes of 2000, through 2005. Students who earned qualifying scores in the requisite number of Advanced Placement examinations received this diploma. When the College Board decided not to go forward with the AP Diploma program many of the schools involved with the pilot project worked with College Board to develop an AP Diploma to be offered by their school districts. Fairfax County, with the approval of the College Board, developed criteria similar to that used in the pilot program and began offering the Fairfax County AP Diploma to the class of 2006. This diploma is not a replacement for, nor an alternative to, the standard Commonwealth of Virginia Diploma.
>
> The Sprague memo, in my view, offers good evidence
> that the IB program is not only compatible, but
> has added value. You can take AP exams in most IB
> areas with little extra effort, but you can't take
> IB exams without having taken the course -- the
> way courses are taught emphasize comparative
> analysis, synthesis, and dialectics. The PROCESS
> of reasoning and thinking and the scientific
> method is key and that is what is tested.
>
I'd question that a decent AP science class doesn't teach the scientific process.
>
> There are key differences in math and science --
> yes -- because these are two-year courses.
> However, AP is the same way. You can't take an AP
> Chem class without taking regular Chem first --
> nor an AP Calc class without precalc -- though
> some schools let you (at least in other states)
> and I would really question the rigor of the AP
> program when that happens. If kids do "jump" like
> this, then I would further argue that these are
> exceptional students and outliers in the argument
> at hand. IB has the same. My own boy might be
> considered one of them, in fact (I brought him up
> because it proves the point that you can take IB
> and still get great grades on College Board exams.
> He took Algebra in 7th, Geometry in 8th, and
> pre-IB Math in 9th grade.)
>
But as the Sprague memo said, unless the HL math class explicitly overweights calculus, it doesn't cover calculus at a similar level of depth as BC. Also, HL Physics is at the Physics B (non-calculus) level, not the Physics C (calculus-based) level and Chemistry is completely different.
>
> So if any discussion about AP vs IB is done,
> diplomas should be left out of it. It's an
> aspirational goal that should be encouraged and
> that sets it apart from AP, but it isn't a fair
> comparison.
I do wonder whether the IBO's pretty hard stress on that goal leads some kids at the school to not take any IB classes since it's beyond their aspirations.
On the magnet issue, IB should always & only ever have been a magnet program in the US. I do think the program has real value, it probably would have been perfect for me. However, requiring that kids take a non-standard curriculum, no matter how good, by the happenstance of their residence is simply wrong. It's simply not the standard program of studies in the US. The misalignment with the regular HS program makes it difficult for kids can play up/down where it makes sense for them, and the misalignment with the US standard college level curriculum for math/science/engineering types makes for problems when they go on.