Duff68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have NOT been suffering at Fairview. I was
> being sarcastic because the Clifton Elementary
> School parents are fighting so hard to keep their
> school open and indirectly (in my opinion) that is
> sending the message they don't want to attend
> other schools in the area. I have been very happy
> with Fairview as are many parents.
>
> I won't have to worry about the overcrowding at
> Fairview. In all three boundary options we are
> being moved to Oakview.


Granny says "You are not out of the woods - and be afraid of the big bad wolf."
The three option FCPS has given to the community are the wolf's disguise {not the options that will get picked}. The surprise is coming dear Duff - in the next two options.
And your Granny wouldn't be happy to hear you say "As long as I am fine, it doesn't matter what happens to my neighbor." I will bet your Granny was pretty big on the old Golden Rule.
If FCPS came to you and said close Fairview (it's just as old as Clifton) and we will make up where your children go later, you would hardly be so cavalier.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller
imprisoned from 1941 to April 1945, Dachau

As a Clifton parent I want to say THANK YOU for you insight. I only wish others cared as much as you do.

@Grossed out Granny

I never said I was for or against closing Clifton. I lean more to keeping if open however I don't necessary agree with the reasons the Clifton community is giving for why they feel it should remain open. Bottom line is the school board wants to close it because it only has capacity for about 400 students with no space/ability to renovate it. (If this isn't true someone please let me know) As someone else stated the School Board wants elemntary schools to have a capacity of 900 students which I also don't agree with and is very unfortunate for the future of our children.

Actually Fairview is much older than Clifton. It started out as a one room school house that has been added onto for over 100 years with the ability to add to it even more.

None of this makes any sense. If you look at the facts, closing Clifton will end up costing more $$$$ for everyone in the County, and add to the overcrowding.


So this is what I don't get.

Why is it that so many people are okay with their tax dollars being squandered, and their schools being forced into this overcrowding fiasco when it's not necessary?

All of the reasons given by the School Board to close Clifton have turned out to be false. Closing the school forces even more schools to become overcrowded and more students to be moved around. Why is that okay when it's not necessary?

And if it's not okay with you, what are you doing about it?

Regardless of where in SW Boundary Study region you live, closing Clifton is having a direct impact on ALL of our schools in terms of creating even more overcrowding. Maybe not immediately, but they will become overcrowded relatively quickly if we're all at max capacity as growth continues in this region. Then what? We do this again in a few years and the School Board realizes they should have kept Clifton open?

I for one would like to see new options with Clifton open. With Clifton open, you could remove the entire bottom half of the Boundary Study maps, along with a few other schools as well.

You can add on to Clifton by going up. (just one idea) We would love Fairview students to come and join us at our great school. Just look at our test scores and how nice everyone is. And please do not go by what the SB says. The have lied over and over again. Just look up Liz Bradsher as an example.

Actually, there is room at Clifton to add on and the Clifton community would welcome that option as a means to help SOLVE the overcrowding. It would not have cost anymore than the various additions that will have to be done at surrounding schools, bringing them close to 1000 students.

As you stated, that is very unfortunate for the future of our children.

Just out of curiosity, what reasons by the Clifton community do you not agree with? From what I've seen/read, their reasons sound, well, reasonable.

Duff68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> unfortunately Clifton doesn't have
> the room to add on.

I respectfully disagree. A general contractor who builds schools and churches put forth a comprehensive plan to expand Clifton. We wanted to be part of the solution, not to add to the problem.

http://www.fcps.edu/DIT/streaming/06-28-10schoolboardmeeting.asx

Look at approx. 1hr,14 mins into it.

I'm not an expert, but this man is. Do you have a background in building/architecture/engineering that makes you so confident in your assertion the Clifton doesn't have room to expand?

My initial post was regarding the comments made by "Focus on the Facts" at 10:52pm on 11/17/10.

"We are wasting time talking about all of this other stuff... e.g. Clifton is/isn't "elite" - THAT DOESN'T MATTER - Clifton residents PAY TAXES LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. And as per the progressive tax system, if we are supposedly so "rich"...then we pay even more taxes. So everyone out there who is complaining that we "don't deserve a school" - SHUT UP. We deserve a school just as much as any other tax payer in the county."

Do you all feel this is an appropriate comment to make? Is this the message you want to get out to people? I felt I needed to respond to this whether I am for or against the closing of Clifton.

Instead of attacking me I would think you would try to get the message out to people on what is happening. No - I am not an expert on closing schools and I didn't claim to be. I had heard one of the reasons for closing Clifton was there is no room to expand it and I wrote "CORRECT me if I am wrong" as someone nicely responded there is room to go up while you felt the need to attack instead of inform.

I am not for closing Clifton however I don't think claiming Clifton is entitled to a community school is the way to go about it. (You should be focusing on the overcrowding at the other schools). If Clifton keeps their community school shoud Ffx Sta get a community school? What about Burke?

to Duff68: The community of Clifton does feel ENTITLED. Clifton is already up and running and has been for years. We do NOT want a new school. We just think it is stupid to close our school to solve the overcrowding. Nothing more nothing less. Why should ALL of South County kids be moved around when you could just keep Clifton open. And yes we would love to have more kids join our school.

**DOES NOT FEEL ENTITLED. My mistake.

I don't think we feel entitled, I think we feel double crossed. As you or anyone else would in our shoes. The SB, Liz Bradsher in particular, lied to us for a year.

The fact is, had the SB been able to prove to us that it was in the best interest of taxpayers and students to close the school, we would have been able to accept that, and make the best of a sad situation. We're not unreasonable. We are intelligent people and contrary to popular belief, we're not so selfish that we can't understand logic.

But the "facts" put forth by the SB as reasons to close Clifton were all false. Every single one of them. As a community, we presented cost efficient options to the SB that would help SOLVE the overcrowding, including bringing in students from the areas closer to the overcrowding. The SB's response was that in order to expand CES, they would have to bring in students from Little Rocky Run, and they were not at all comfortable disrupting that community. No offense to LRR, but how is there any less disruption now?

The facts support keeping Clifton open, for the sake of taxpayers and the greater SW Region which is now undergoing MAJOR changes as a result of closing Clifton.

I'm sorry if you (Duff68) feel attacked. Sincerely, I am. We are a passionate bunch on this subject. Some express it a little more than others.

The bottom line is that closing Clifton is not going to save taxpayers any money, and only adds additional students to the overcrowding. That is the point that we are trying to make. But we can scream it from the rooftops 24/7 and it does absolutely NO good if we (clifton) are the only ones screaming it.

If you don't agree that Clifton should close, regardless of whether or not your kids attend CES, you should make that known to the School Board and the Board of Supervisors. The SB is recklessly spending our tax dollars by closing a school to solve overcrowding. I still don't understand how that works. Close a school to solve overcrowding??

You have to understand, for over a year, Liz Bradsher told Clifton if you solve problem X, you'll be okay. Oh, problem solved? Yeah, well, now we have problem Y. Oh, really, a solution for that too, huh? Hmmm, well, here's problem Z. (if you're a Dr. Suess fan, I just can't help think of the Cat in the Hat Comes back and little cat Z. Sorry, I digress.) Anyway, you get the point. It was one thing after another, and every single one of the "problems" were false. Not to mention the fact that the SB changed the game at the 11th hour and changed the decision from Close Clifton and Build a New School, to Close Clifton and figure it out later, or ????. There was never any intention of keeping the school open, which became painfully clear after the FOIA emails came out.

So, please excuse those of us that get a bit passionate about this cause. We've screamed for a really long time, only to be ignored.

If Clifton is the only community objecting, the SB is not going to listen. If surrounding communities take a stand and say, wait a minute! We want different options, with Clifton open - let's see exactly how much of an impact closing this school has on surrounding boundaries! We (meaning Clifton and surrounding communities) might actually have a voice in this boundary study.

As it is now, the SB thinks the boundary study is going just fine. In fact, Liz B. recently said it was going very well, and Dean T. said the process was excellent. (really?) New options will be presented and you'll be given the opportunity to rate these options online. Then there will be a public hearing, and then the vote on which boundary map is going to be chosen. End of discussion.

Unless you speak up now. You can't wait until the public hearing. By then it is too late. And yes, you have to be VOCAL. Unfortunately, if you want to be heard, you have to make yourself heard. And we do think that every community deserves to keep their community schools. Ffx. Sta. and Burke both have several community schools, and each one of them is important to their community. Clifton has one. We're not asking for improvements, or a new building. We simply asking to keep what is already there unless there is a logical reason not to. So far, there haven't been any logical reasons presented.

Save $$$? Not when you end up having to do several additions to surrounding schools and add transportation.

Problem with the water? The final water report came in AFTER the vote, and the water is fine.

Declining population? Nope.

Duff68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My initial post was regarding the comments made by
> "Focus on the Facts" at 10:52pm on 11/17/10.
>
> "We are wasting time talking about all of this
> other stuff... e.g. Clifton is/isn't "elite" -
> THAT DOESN'T MATTER - Clifton residents PAY TAXES
> LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. And as per the progressive tax
> system, if we are supposedly so "rich"...then we
> pay even more taxes. So everyone out there who is
> complaining that we "don't deserve a school" -
> SHUT UP. We deserve a school just as much as any
> other tax payer in the county."
>
> Do you all feel this is an appropriate comment to
> make? Is this the message you want to get out to
> people? I felt I needed to respond to this whether
> I am for or against the closing of Clifton.

It is just as appropriate as someone calling us "elite" and saying that we don't deserve a school (it wasn't you), that we should stop whining, etc. We all try to be polite, but sometimes the comments are incendiary and elicit a strong response.

> Instead of attacking me I would think you would
> try to get the message out to people on what is
> happening. No - I am not an expert on closing
> schools and I didn't claim to be. I had heard one
> of the reasons for closing Clifton was there is no
> room to expand it and I wrote "CORRECT me if I am
> wrong" as someone nicely responded there is room
> to go up while you felt the need to attack instead
> of inform.

Agreed. Attacks are not necessary. Apologies that it came across so snarky (at the time didn't seem so but after re-read I can see it). I didn't feel it was that ATTACKING - I just thought maybe you had facts to back up your assertion - or that it was from some official source or something.

> I am not for closing Clifton however I don't think
> claiming Clifton is entitled to a community school
> is the way to go about it. (You should be
> focusing on the overcrowding at the other
> schools). If Clifton keeps their community school
> shoud Ffx Sta get a community school? What about
> Burke?

I think if you had been involved in this from the very beginning you might understand our perspective a bit more. *not attacking you*, just saying we have a long history with this and there is so much more to it than some people seem to realize - e.g. the mis-perception "those elite Clifton people... trying to save their precious "community" school.... don't think the other schools are good enough...etc, etc." Where's that cartoonist, anyway? we need a mythbuster cartoon or something. :-)

FCPS Link for October 2010 enrollment figures:
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:42:14589205414657::NO::P42_SCHOOL_YEAR,P42_CLUSTER_ID,P42_DIVISION_ID,P42_SCHOOL_ID:201011%2C1%2CDIVISION%2C

Duff: " it only has capacity for about 400 students with no space/ability to renovate it. (If this isn't true someone please let me know)"

Duff, for Clifton:
FCPS Design Capacity: 536 students
FCPS Program Capacity: 374 students
There IS space to renovate and ability to renovate and to add capacity.
Attachments:

Hey kids!

Liz Bradsher says no water bottles in elementary school, otherwise it's gonna be...
Attachments:

SayWHAT?! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Evil's MiniMe and SCB skewer
> ANOTHER Fairfax County resident
> and member of the Planning Study.
>
> Evil trolls.


Hey, SayWhat - so right - is there anyone left in the county Liz Bradsher hasn't insulted, called to 'cripple at the knees', harrassed, intimidated?

Now she's smearing the Dept of Zoning and the History Commission. And she wonders how she got her nickname. Go figure.
Attachments:

What bothers me about this thread is that everyone here keeps looking at everything from a short-sighted point of view or one-sided argument. What current capacities are or what the ideal school size should be. The simple fact and big picture is that the overall population in this area is going to continue to grow, not decrease. Closing any school in this area for any reason is nothing but short-sighted and irresponsible.

to Duff68: The community of Clifton does feel ENTITLED...

to Duff68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> **DOES NOT FEEL ENTITLED. My mistake.


Ever heard of the term "Freudian Slip"? I think you may be guilty of one here...

Open mouth, insert foot.

"I wanted the School Board to see the school, the needs in the school.
Well, that never happened. What the school board saw were all these people."

http://fairfaxstation.patch.com/articles/elizabeth-bradsher-on-clifton-elementary-school

Apparently Liz Bradsher misunderstood the job description School Board member - she thought she was representing the SCHOOLS.

Bonus:
OK. You're a Republican?
No.
You're a Democrat?
Maybe.

ie: My Fruedian slip. That was a good one! LOL.

If you met me I am down to earth and only want what is best for ALL the students.

Wow. Quoting Liz Bradsher:

"They couldn't concentrate on the HVAC system. They couldn't concentrate on the fact that there was no water suppression system in the school in case of a fire. They couldn't concentrate on the size of the rooms and the problematic issues that the size of the rooms brought forth to education. They couldn't concentrate on the fact that it's on a ridge, it's a high above on a ridge, and that parking is not adequate."

"The Clifton residents never wanted to listen."
"The rest of the county is looking at them..."

What arrogance. Liz Bradsher has certainly not been listening to anyone except her own gigantic ego. The rest of the county is looking at HER, and seeing what a hideous representative is like. She never pauses long enough to examine her own motives, does she?

The spew about the sizes of the rooms and the "problematic issues that the size of the rooms brought forth to education"--REALLY now, that is simply a bunch of jargon. If the students are learning well in the school as it currently is, how is the room size a problem? She is conjuring up anything to throw into the problem list. TJ has never been renovated, but the kids there seem to learn just fine, even in their moldy trailers.

Did Liz Bradsher target Clifton Elementary because that's where Pat Herrity lives?

I didn't write the "freudian slip" post!!

I see how easily someone can "pretend" to be someone else on here by using their moniker so I won't be posting on here any more. So any other posts on here by Duff is NOT me.

I am FOR keeping Clifton open. I have signed petitions and bid on online auction items. I just took offense by "Focus on the Facts" post and hastily responded to it.

I appreciate the people that took the time to post messages regarding the facts. That it is possible to add an addition (I had heard differently). I am glad you have had the chance to clear it up. Also school size - there are a lot of "small" schools in Fairfax County (again I didn't realize this so I am glad now I know) - so the SB giving these reasons to close Clifton is ridiculous!!

I am sorry if I ruffled any feathers but I do think some good information has gotten out there due to your responses to my posts.

As for my being wishy/washy about getting kicked out of Fairview. For the most part I am not happy about it however switching to Oak View puts us in a different school pyramid and our middle school and high school MIGHT (or might not) change. Some people are happy about this and others are not. I am happy about it.

Let me repeat....I do want Clifton to remain open!!! I AGREE closing Clifton is ridiculous when we already have a problem with overcrowding.

tilly wrote:


"What arrogance. Liz Bradsher has certainly not been listening to anyone except her own gigantic ego. The rest of the county is looking at HER, and seeing what a hideous representative is like. She never pauses long enough to examine her own motives, does she?"


+1,000,000

tilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. Quoting Liz Bradsher:
>
> "They couldn't concentrate on the HVAC system.
> They couldn't concentrate on the fact that there
> was no water suppression system in the school in
> case of a fire. They couldn't concentrate on the
> size of the rooms and the problematic issues that
> the size of the rooms brought forth to education.
> They couldn't concentrate on the fact that it's
> on a ridge, it's a high above on a ridge, and that
> parking is not adequate."
>
> "The Clifton residents never wanted to listen."
> "The rest of the county is looking at them..."
>
Keep these interviews coming. They will make a great archive for case studies on narcissistic personalities.

I don't live in Clifton, but one can tell from many miles away this woman's a completely self-absorbed idiot with zero credibility. She's like one of these housewives on Bravo who is more than happy to self-destruct on national TV as long as it gives her more air time.

Skeptical Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tilly Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow. Quoting Liz Bradsher:
> >
> > "They couldn't concentrate on the HVAC system.
>
> > They couldn't concentrate on the fact that
> there
> > was no water suppression system in the school
> in
> > case of a fire. They couldn't concentrate on
> the
> > size of the rooms and the problematic issues
> that
> > the size of the rooms brought forth to
> education.
> > They couldn't concentrate on the fact that
> it's
> > on a ridge, it's a high above on a ridge, and
> that
> > parking is not adequate."
> >


The fact that Clifton Elementary is already an award winning school for educational achievement combined with Mrs. Bradsher's comments on the facilities (above) really has me total confused anymore on what FCPS thinks its real purpose is. Is it to have the best facilities or to provide quality education? From Mrs. Bradsher's comments, it appears her primary goal is to have the best facilities. She also seems to have no sense of the difference between "needs" and "wants".

ScrewedUpGoals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Skeptical Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tilly Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Wow. Quoting Liz Bradsher:
> > >
> > > "They couldn't concentrate on the HVAC system.
>
> >
> > > They couldn't concentrate on the fact that
> > there
> > > was no water suppression system in the school
> > in
> > > case of a fire. They couldn't concentrate on
> > the
> > > size of the rooms and the problematic issues
> > that
> > > the size of the rooms brought forth to
> > education.
> > > They couldn't concentrate on the fact that
> > it's
> > > on a ridge, it's a high above on a ridge, and
> > that
> > > parking is not adequate."
> > >
>
>
> The fact that Clifton Elementary is already an
> award winning school for educational achievement
> combined with Mrs. Bradsher's comments on the
> facilities (above) really has me total confused
> anymore on what FCPS thinks its real purpose is.
> Is it to have the best facilities or to provide
> quality education? From Mrs. Bradsher's
> comments, it appears her primary goal is to have
> the best facilities. She also seems to have no
> sense of the difference between "needs" and
> "wants".

It's all transparently self-serving BS.

Bradsher ran and was elected to get new schools built in South County.

She paid no attention at the time to West Springfield HS, which was literally falling apart.

That eventually caught up with her, so the solution was to close Clifton ES and take money that would otherwise have been spent renovating Clifton to spend on West Springfield.

As a result, additions will now need to be built at several other schools in an already over-crowded part of the county.

It obviously will cost lots more money in the short-term, and probably over the long-term as well. However, because money spent on building additions is a separate budget line from money spent on renovations, Liz thought she could have her cake and eat it, too.

It didn't turn out that way, and now she's engaged in non-stop backpedding and spinning. Expect her to keep portraying the Clifton community as a bunch of spoiled locals who wanted others to subsidize their "private" school. Don't look for her to acknowledge that these same supposedly spoiled folks were willing to defer any renovations or accept something less than the "gold-plated" renovations that FCPS was making when times were flush.

The fact that she acknowleges that she doesn't know any more whether she's Republican or Democratic is an admission that she's now a total pariah. She should crawl under a rock for a few years, and re-emerge only if and when she's had a chance to reflect on her singularly appalling lack of grace and good judgment.

Did any of you ever think or conclude that staff is really the one's making the decisions here? More to the point, do you really think it wise that some elected official NOT follow a staff recommendation when staff is paid and looks at the school system facilities etc on a daily basis? This is what staff is paid for isn't it? I suspect if any of you had any real insight into what is going on here, you would think that what needs to be done is to get rid of Jack Dale since it is he who hires and maintains the staff. If a school board member has a problem with staffs numbers or recommendations, it seems to me that they need to change the staff and nothing more. I find it repugnant that everyone is dumping on the school board members, because they are not paid to look at facilities on a full time basis, staff is. Why on earth would they do something other than what staff recommended?

questionable Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did any of you ever think or conclude that staff
> is really the one's making the decisions here?
> More to the point, do you really think it wise
> that some elected official NOT follow a staff
> recommendation when staff is paid and looks at the
> school system facilities etc on a daily basis?
> This is what staff is paid for isn't it? I suspect
> if any of you had any real insight into what is
> going on here, you would think that what needs to
> be done is to get rid of Jack Dale since it is he
> who hires and maintains the staff. If a school
> board member has a problem with staffs numbers or
> recommendations, it seems to me that they need to
> change the staff and nothing more. I find it
> repugnant that everyone is dumping on the school
> board members, because they are not paid to look
> at facilities on a full time basis, staff is. Why
> on earth would they do something other than what
> staff recommended?


If you think for one minute that the SB is not directing the staff, think again. Yes, the staff makes the presentation to the School Board, but if you've read the FOIA'ed emails, you see pretty quickly that Liz B. and crew are directing the show. The "STAFF" is going to do whatever the Board and Dale tell them to do. If they don't do what they're told, they will lose their jobs!

questionable Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did any of you ever think or conclude that staff
> is really the one's making the decisions here?
> More to the point, do you really think it wise
> that some elected official NOT follow a staff
> recommendation when staff is paid and looks at the
> school system facilities etc on a daily basis?
> This is what staff is paid for isn't it? I suspect
> if any of you had any real insight into what is
> going on here, you would think that what needs to
> be done is to get rid of Jack Dale since it is he
> who hires and maintains the staff. If a school
> board member has a problem with staffs numbers or
> recommendations, it seems to me that they need to
> change the staff and nothing more. I find it
> repugnant that everyone is dumping on the school
> board members, because they are not paid to look
> at facilities on a full time basis, staff is. Why
> on earth would they do something other than what
> staff recommended?

You can't be serious. Or maybe you are, and are just misinformed.

By the way, Staff didn't want to build a separate middle school in South County. Bradsher convinced her cronies on the School Board like Tessie Wilson to reject the Staff's recommendations. She's been monkeying around with other schools ever since to deal with the consequences.

so sorry to tistadt?

guess she represent the tistadt district. wonder if he will vote for her next year.
Attachments:

After a successful Advance, need to begin focusing on who is an asset and who is not.

Was both surprised and disappointed by a forward with this quote:


From: Bradsher, Elizabeth (School Board Member)
To: Wilson, Tessie (School Board Member)
Sent: Tue Jul 06 22:50:29 2010
Subject: Checking in

Albo suggested I close the school and be sure PR afterwards supports such a decision.

The Days of the the Lemming grow short.
The audacity to not be in lock step!
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Decided??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Days of the the Lemming grow short.
> The audacity to not be in lock step!

So a respectful, thoughtful letter from a resident is met with a catty brush-off from Gibson. No surprise. Just what you'd expect from the West County Jerk and the South County Bitch. How dare people express a point of view different from their own.

Let's make sure they both are sent packing by next fall.

Did you ever wonder why staff lumped the renovation of Clifton with the overcrowding in the southwest? Why assume that Clifton was going to stay open when you look to determine a new site for a new school and assume a differetn epicenter of overcrowding? Seems to me that it was predetermined by staff that it was best for Clifton to be closed. Perhaps they simply wanted to avoid the lawsuit when there was a fire without an adequate sprinkler system? I wonder whetehr the community would have sued the school system ahd tehre been a fire? They certainly seem to be willing to waste their time and money suing to keep a building in disrepair open.

confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you ever wonder why staff lumped the
> renovation of Clifton with the overcrowding in the
> southwest? Why assume that Clifton was going to
> stay open when you look to determine a new site
> for a new school and assume a differetn epicenter
> of overcrowding? Seems to me that it was
> predetermined by staff that it was best for
> Clifton to be closed. Perhaps they simply wanted
> to avoid the lawsuit when there was a fire without
> an adequate sprinkler system? I wonder whetehr the
> community would have sued the school system ahd
> tehre been a fire? They certainly seem to be
> willing to waste their time and money suing to
> keep a building in disrepair open.

Obviously if there's over-crowding in that part of the county and you're dithering over Clifton, you have to decide whether (1) it's going to be part of the solution or (2) close it, make the problem worse, and deal with the many consequences (large-scale redistricting). If you're trying to redirect funds to West Springfield HS, you want to redistrict high-performing kids at Clifton to other schools, and you don't care at all about what the community wants, it turns out it's not a very hard choice.
The lawsuit may not be successful, but it's not a waste; the judge has already said that it raises significant enough issues that he needed to defer the oral argument - now scheduled for Monday - so he could give the matter more attention.

And, even if the lawsuit fails, Liz Bradsher's political career is competely over, which is very good news.

confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you ever wonder why staff lumped the
> renovation of Clifton with the overcrowding in the
> southwest? Why assume that Clifton was going to
> stay open when you look to determine a new site
> for a new school and assume a differetn epicenter
> of overcrowding? Seems to me that it was
> predetermined by staff that it was best for
> Clifton to be closed. Perhaps they simply wanted
> to avoid the lawsuit when there was a fire without
> an adequate sprinkler system? I wonder whetehr the
> community would have sued the school system ahd
> tehre been a fire? They certainly seem to be
> willing to waste their time and money suing to
> keep a building in disrepair open.


First, you're absolutely right about the decision to close CES being predetermined, so why waste a year of taxpayer time and money putting on the dog and pony show "studying" this issue? Why put the Clifton community through a year of wasting time and energy researching options that would save the County money and help solve the overcrowding along the Rt. 50/29 corridor with CES open if they already knew they were going to close the school?

Secondly, there are over 20 other schools in the system that don't have sprinkler systems. Are they going to close ALL of those schools to avoid a future lawsuit? Are those parents "bad parents" because they're not overly concerned about a fire breaking out at their school?

Third, the building is not in disrepair. Another misconception perpetuated by the School Board. Is the building older than some in the County? Of course. But,so are many others. Fairview and Burke School are just 2 examples. Both are older than CES. Are they in disrepair just because they're old?

LOL

Your assumption that Liz will lose is based upon similar flawed data that the facilities provides. Question, how many voters elect SB members in Clifton area verse those in the West Springfield High School pool? Think about it. If you were a politician and had the choice, who are you going to please?

Additionally, while there may be other schools in FCPS system without sprinkler systems, are there others with the unique problem presented by being on well water when they come up in the que for renovations?

I only wish the families in Clifton lots of luck. I hope that they get what they paid for with the lawsuit. I think it might have been better spend trying to find savings for their children to go to private schools if the other schools they will attend are inferior as inferred here.

I have no doubt that the same individuals who are suing the school board would sue if their children were harmed in a fire or better yet damaged from the radon in the water. Oh wait the water quality is fine, just another misconception on the school board part, I guess.

Good luck on Monday. Perhaps not publishing the hearings will be enough to continue the suit, but in some ways I sure hope not.

Hello----

I live in West Springfield HS district and I AM NOT going to vote for Liz Bradsher. You are totally wrong if you think that I am going to "reward" her for her behavior because "I got mine". Sure, I would like to have WSHS renovated, but not at this "price". Corrupting the whole system is not worth any of it. If we all start being about ourselves, we will be about nothing. That goes for Clifton too. But I think the process itself (Liz, the SB, Dean, etc.) promoted this "me, me me" thinking on every side---is that the kind of system we really want? Yes, we are in the gutter and Liz certainly did everything she could to take us there.

hahaha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL
>
> Your assumption that Liz will lose is based upon
> similar flawed data that the facilities provides.
> Question, how many voters elect SB members in
> Clifton area verse those in the West Springfield
> High School pool? Think about it. If you were a
> politician and had the choice, who are you going
> to please?
>
> Additionally, while there may be other schools in
> FCPS system without sprinkler systems, are there
> others with the unique problem presented by being
> on well water when they come up in the que for
> renovations?
>
> I only wish the families in Clifton lots of luck.
> I hope that they get what they paid for with the
> lawsuit. I think it might have been better spend
> trying to find savings for their children to go to
> private schools if the other schools they will
> attend are inferior as inferred here.
>
> I have no doubt that the same individuals who are
> suing the school board would sue if their children
> were harmed in a fire or better yet damaged from
> the radon in the water. Oh wait the water quality
> is fine, just another misconception on the school
> board part, I guess.
>
> Good luck on Monday. Perhaps not publishing the
> hearings will be enough to continue the suit, but
> in some ways I sure hope not.

It's not an assumption that Liz will lose. It's essentially a given at this point. Neither party wants anything to do with her now. People in Clifton hate her, and people in West Springfield are embarassed by her clumsy advocacy on their behalf. You could hold a "Friends of Liz" party in a broom closet.

If Clifton ES was such a firetrap, it would have been taken off the renovation queue immediately after the Dogwood fire. All the supposed hazards only surfaced after Liz saw a chance to get her hands on $11 M and bump up renovations at West Springfield.

You sound almost as stupid as Stu Gibson.

About way more than Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello----
>
> I live in West Springfield HS district and I AM
> NOT going to vote for Liz Bradsher. You are
> totally wrong if you think that I am going to
> "reward" her for her behavior because "I got
> mine". Sure, I would like to have WSHS renovated,
> but not at this "price". Corrupting the whole
> system is not worth any of it. If we all start
> being about ourselves, we will be about nothing.
> That goes for Clifton too. But I think the
> process itself (Liz, the SB, Dean, etc.) promoted
> this "me, me me" thinking on every side---is that
> the kind of system we really want? Yes, we are
> in the gutter and Liz certainly did everything she
> could to take us there.


In complete agreement with this. Not sure what would give Liz Bradsher the idea that the West Springfield community would embrace this sleazy tactic of throwing another school under the bus and move WSHS up in the renovation queue. Who would even PRETEND to be impressed or pleased with this tactic?

Another WS resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> In complete agreement with this. Not sure what
> would give Liz Bradsher the idea that the West
> Springfield community would embrace this sleazy
> tactic of throwing another school under the bus
> and move WSHS up in the renovation queue. Who
> would even PRETEND to be impressed or pleased with
> this tactic?

Maybe it was her many discussions with Erick Hawkins and others at SOAR, and their willingness when push came to shove to throw Clifton under the bus? Just a guess.

confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you ever wonder why staff lumped the
> renovation of Clifton with the overcrowding in the
> southwest? Why assume that Clifton was going to
> stay open when you look to determine a new site
> for a new school and assume a differetn epicenter
> of overcrowding? Seems to me that it was
> predetermined by staff that it was best for
> Clifton to be closed. Perhaps they simply wanted
> to avoid the lawsuit when there was a fire without
> an adequate sprinkler system? I wonder whetehr the
> community would have sued the school system ahd
> tehre been a fire? They certainly seem to be
> willing to waste their time and money suing to
> keep a building in disrepair open.


Enough with the Dogwood saga - it burned to the freaking ground cuz the firemen didn't find the fire the FIRST time they went...coming back the SECOND time was too late.
The SB doesn't give a crap about the sprinkelers - that is another BS line - remember, Dogwood burned down a DECADE AGO. Where have all the drum beaters been in the last 10 yrs? Plus, there's other schools w/o sprinkelers.

All FCPS schools meet code - so SB, stop pushing off the blame for closing the school on Dogwood. It's just more lies we are sick to freaking death of hearing.

Zip it - and suck it up; you made a mistake. Find a way to save face, keep CES open and end your embarrassment.
Attachments:

About way more than Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello----
>
> I live in West Springfield HS district and Yes, we are
> in the gutter


Maybe you should consider moving?

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Dane Bramage---

Maybe you should consider not taking people's comments and chopping them up and putting them back together like you're doing a Photoshop. Go back and reread my post and you will see that the "we are in the gutter" line was not referring to West Springfield. I do think your brain has been terribly damaged.

Here's what Liz had to say about the Clifton community's opposition to her leading the effort to close down their school:

"And it's hurt them in a way that they probably don't understand, because the rest of the county's looking at them and they're not responding to them, because they think that they've taken it too far."

Actually, Liz, the rest of the county is looking at you, and we are responding, because your behavior and your e-mails demonstrate that you're a political hack who put her own interests first. The best thing you could do is admit that a mistake has been made, and that it's in the best interests of the entire county to keep this school open.

Here's another misleading quote from Liz Bradsher:

"I've have been told not to go into Clifton, due to reasons of physical safety for myself," Bradsher says. "It has been an eye opening experience for me to say the least."

She obviously doesn't want to have to explain her conduct to her own constituents. So she claims she's in physical danger and can't set foot in oh-so-dangerous Clifton.

Cry me a friggin' river, Liz. You rail and scream at 16-year-old kids who question your decisions, but can't deal with upset citizens.

"I have been told not to go into Clifton, due to reasons of physical safety for myself," Bradsher says. "It has been an eye opening experience for me to say the least."


Now she paints herself as being a target for potential harm from angry Clifton residents? She's drowning in her own delusions of importance. Perhaps if she really had been able to "say the least" earlier in her career and LISTENED and UNDERSTOOD issues with more intelligence and wisdom, she would not be in this ridiculous situation of trying to appear like she still has value to the community.

diva Liz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I have been told not to go into Clifton, due to
> reasons of physical safety for myself," Bradsher
> says. "It has been an eye opening experience for
> me to say the least."

Liz, if you feel so threatened and can name your "attackers" by name, why not go to the police? Truth is you won't, because the physical safety concerns only exist in your head. The people that you think are out to do you harm only wish to insure that your future in politics is over. Nothing more. And by the looks of things it appears you are doing just fine sending your political future down the drain on your own.

ROTFL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I can see Clifton from my window"
>
> +1

Aww.

How about "Liz Bradsher's Crosspointe" for cable? Instead of treks to see grizzly bears in the wild, we could watch Liz venture into Clifton in camouflage, poised to run back to Fairfax Station at the first sighting of the restless natives.

This morning, Chief Judge Dennis J. Smith of the 19th circuit court heard arguments from both sides in a lawsuit over the impending closure of the Clifton Elementary School. The judge ruled that the Fairfax County School Board did give reasonable notice regarding a June hearing on the future of Clifton elementary (upholding a previous ruling), while scheduling another hearing for Dec. 1, where he will rule on the remainder of the pending motion to dismiss the lawsuit. The plaintiffs, a group of Clifton parents, are seeking to overturn a recent decision in which the school board voted 9-2 to close the school. The board cited declining enrollment, unsafe water and high renovation costs.

From the FairfaxStationPatch

All this talk about not being able to renovate Clifton is crazy - didn't they tear down the original school and build the current one in 1953?

Besides, like others have pointed out, many schools in the eastern part of the County are the same or older and have just as few students - why are we targeting Clifton ES when there's already overcrowding at neighboring schools?

Yes, in 1953 building on a HILL (YEESH) was evidently easier than it is today. go figure.

Justataxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth is you won't, because the physical safety
> concerns only exist in your head.

The lunatics that are Clifton is apparent in this public thread.

One can only imagine the extreme this gets to when these Cliftonites get toghether in private. If I was Ms. Bradsher I'd be skerred, you people are batshit crazy.



-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

BurkeBaby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>> Enough with the Dogwood saga - it burned to the freaking ground cuz
>>> the firemen didn't find the fire the FIRST time they went...coming back the
>>> SECOND time was too late.

BurkeBaby -

Not true - the cantor of the Dogwood report sang in dulcet tones that:

1) Dogwood was burned down by an arsonist masquerading as an architect; and
2) The architect was enchanted by the evil spirit Open Classroom masquerading as education.

By the way, the report showed that the Fire Department's response was excellent. But, by the time the first firefighters arrived on the site, the fire was completely out of control and all they could do was to keep it from spreading.

Why did it take them so long to show up? The alarm systems in the building didn't differentiate intrusions and fires, the building had no automatic fire alarms, and, when the intrusion detector went off (the first known evidence of the fire), FCPS security's standard policy was to ignore the first alarm because they went off all the time.

It is not difficult to foresee the future declining quality of education in Fairfax County. There are HUNDREDS of schools in the Fairfax County School System, programmatic issues, students that are failing but scores are essentially hidden from the public because they are given easier tests (VGLA), teachers that have been on pay freezes for two years while the School Board granted pay increases to the Superintendent, etc. Yet what has this School Board decided to focus most of their energy on for the past 1-1/2 years? Closing a high-performing school like Clifton Elementary. What kind of leadership is that? It is nothing but smoke and mirrors to hide from the public’s focus all the real issues that they have no idea how to solve even though that is why they were elected into office in the first place.

Why is this allowed to go on? Because parents are so busy in their daily lives struggling to stay afloat in this economy that they don’t have time to look to see what the School Board is doing. With more than 54% of the County Budget, the School System now holds a mafia-like power over many people. People that are afraid to step forward and say anything for fear of losing their jobs or contracts, people that suck up to doing anything FCPS wants in hopes for future employment or favors, newspaper and reporting agencies that are too lazy or short on time to look for the real story and instead function more like PR firms for the School Board. Court systems that don’t want to be involved where elected officials have made decisions.

Therefore, I personally appreciate and want to say thank you to all of the energy and time the Clifton parents and others have spent fighting for their cause. Not only is it the American-way but it takes a lot of courage to fight such a system especially when the position they are forced into is constantly being on the defensive. Courage and determination is what made this country, and if nothing else, they keep exhibiting that. Thank goodness for that. America still exists somewhere.

Why are they building a new middle school for South County Secondary School? I thought a Secondary school includes the middle school? They close Clifton and build this school when they have the middle school already? I don't get it!

This is so entertaining. Perhaps I am as smart as Stu or as pleasant as Liz...I can tell from the tone and content that those who participate in the blog merely seek a solution which isn't going to happen. Open your charter school at teh Clifton site! That would be best for all (small school great education for the kids). Move on! There are clearly more pressing issues in the county that whether we keep Clifton open or not! I would be more interested in looking at the budget and determining whether we keep IB, whether or not foriegn language imemrsion stays or goes, whether we keep strings in the elementary schools, whetehr we move to K-6 for every elementary school or K-5, etc. There are so many other issues that are worthy of our time and effort. Move on!

Oh and by the way, the best part of America is that my vote counts just as much as your vote! That's not to say that I would re-elect any particualr members of teh school board, it just means that your entitlement is basically the same as mine.

American Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not difficult to foresee the future
> declining quality of education in Fairfax County.
> There are HUNDREDS of schools in the Fairfax
> County School System, programmatic issues,
> students that are failing but scores are
> essentially hidden from the public because they
> are given easier tests (VGLA), teachers that have
> been on pay freezes for two years while the School
> Board granted pay increases to the Superintendent,
> etc. Yet what has this School Board decided to
> focus most of their energy on for the past 1-1/2
> years? Closing a high-performing school like
> Clifton Elementary. What kind of leadership is
> that? It is nothing but smoke and mirrors to
> hide from the public’s focus all the real issues
> that they have no idea how to solve even though
> that is why they were elected into office in the
> first place.
>
> Why is this allowed to go on? Because parents
> are so busy in their daily lives struggling to
> stay afloat in this economy that they don’t have
> time to look to see what the School Board is
> doing. With more than 54% of the County Budget,
> the School System now holds a mafia-like power
> over many people. People that are afraid to step
> forward and say anything for fear of losing their
> jobs or contracts, people that suck up to doing
> anything FCPS wants in hopes for future employment
> or favors, newspaper and reporting agencies that
> are too lazy or short on time to look for the real
> story and instead function more like PR firms for
> the School Board. Court systems that don’t
> want to be involved where elected officials have
> made decisions.
>
> Therefore, I personally appreciate and want to say
> thank you to all of the energy and time the
> Clifton parents and others have spent fighting for
> their cause. Not only is it the American-way but
> it takes a lot of courage to fight such a system
> especially when the position they are forced into
> is constantly being on the defensive. Courage
> and determination is what made this country, and
> if nothing else, they keep exhibiting that.
> Thank goodness for that. America still exists
> somewhere.


So true.

we all have a voice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is so entertaining. Perhaps I am as smart as
> Stu or as pleasant as Liz...I can tell from the
> tone and content that those who participate in the
> blog merely seek a solution which isn't going to
> happen. Open your charter school at teh Clifton
> site! That would be best for all (small school
> great education for the kids). Move on! There are
> clearly more pressing issues in the county that
> whether we keep Clifton open or not! I would be
> more interested in looking at the budget and
> determining whether we keep IB, whether or not
> foriegn language imemrsion stays or goes, whether
> we keep strings in the elementary schools, whetehr
> we move to K-6 for every elementary school or K-5,
> etc. There are so many other issues that are
> worthy of our time and effort. Move on!
>
> Oh and by the way, the best part of America is
> that my vote counts just as much as your vote!
> That's not to say that I would re-elect any
> particualr members of teh school board, it just
> means that your entitlement is basically the same
> as mine.


You're absolutely right, we all do have a voice, and our "entitlement" is equal when it comes time to vote.

However, if you think you can let the "little" things like closing CES slide because there are more important issues at stake, then you are missing the bigger picture.

This is NOT just about CES. This is about misappropriation of funds across the entire system, and abuse of power. Are those other issues more important? Not when you let all the "little" things slide. All those "little" issues add up pretty quickly.


So, while the folks in Clifton may be focused on that issue at the moment, don't assume that they are only looking out for themselves. If they win their lawsuit, (and I hope they do!) we all win because this SB will finally be held accountable for their actions. Sure, they can be held accountable come election time next year, but are you prepared to step in and clean up the mess they leave behind? If not, then don't bash the people that are stepping up now.

American's post is the best I have seen here in a while.

What I find distressing is that from the School Board on down, there is almost no focus or attention paid to real academic excellence. Obviously, the school system would disagree, but merely having high SOL pass rates has little to do with excellence. SOL pass rates are a measure of gaming the system. And teh practice constantly discerning how to move "good" students from stable homes to other schools in right sized proportions can't possibly further a focus on excellence.

Even the discussions about TJHSST - arguably the best high school in the country - devolve to moaning about the lack of diversity - even though the school is incredibly diverse. It appears as if all sorts of objectives save for excellence and competence govern and control. From an outsider looking in, it is a world turned upside down.

By the way, although there are a small minority of teachers that are problematic, the teachers in Fairfax are not the problem. They need an environment where they are expected to reach high and challenge, and make that expectation clear to the community and the parents. Right now we have frat boys and sorority girls running the show, a far cry from the assertive, disciplined, and transparent leadership that is required. Bear in mind that this is one of the wealthiest jurisdictions in the country. A focus on excellence is hardly misplaced.

Wilson v. Bradsher?

FCPS is just loaded with gems. SB would make tops in "Worst Places to Work" - can you imagine working with these people?
Attachments:

Times have changed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, in 1953 building on a HILL (YEESH) was
> evidently easier than it is today. go figure.


You can't build on "topography", silly.
Attachments:

GOOD GRIEF, indeed!

Tessie and Liz make such a great pair. Tessie comes straight out of one of those Carol Burnett skits from the 1970s, while Liz is just waiting for the sequel to "Fast Times at Ridgemont High." Bad teeth and big hair. What more could you ask for?

Everyone in this county should look at Clifton and realize that they could be next. Why in the world would anyone work hard on the PTA and for a school that they might get kicked out of at the whim of the SB?? Parents and community members do many, many things to help build up programs and the physical plants of the school buildings in their communities. They feel that this is in their interest not just as parents, but as members of communities where they plan to live for some length of time. It's hard to imagine much loyalty or buy-in to schools (volunteerism, etc.) if parents feel all of their hard work may be for naught since they could be redistricted for any trumped up reason. At many schools parents are the ones who provide landscaping, books, reading programs, book sales to build up the library, continuing program planning (colonial days, special field trips, school graduation traditions, after school science programs, clubs, etc.). The list goes on and on ESPECIALLY at elementary schools. If a school is not in their community, I do not believe that parents will be nearly as willing to donate to the school. There is something about seeing the school as you go about your business in the community, knowing the kids who go there and went there with your own children---these are constant reminders of the effort that you put into the place. It engenders a loyalty and feeling that cannot be replicated by busing kids from one area to 4 different schools. I don't think the SB did all it could to keep this school and its community intact. I do think that this county will one day realize what the SB has done---I hope it's not too late.

They can't be serious about this statement!



FAIRFAX COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS
MAINTAINING EXCELLENCE THROUGH WISE INVESTMENT

http://www.fcps.edu/supt/justthefacts/taxvalue08.pdf

MY voice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is NOT just about CES. This is about
> misappropriation of funds across the entire
> system, and abuse of power. Are those other
> issues more important? Not when you let all the
> "little" things slide. All those "little" issues
> add up pretty quickly.
>
>
> So, while the folks in Clifton may be focused on
> that issue at the moment, don't assume that they
> are only looking out for themselves.


This all about CES and only about CES and if the vote to close CES went the other way we would not be reading all these rants on FFXU. As a matter of fact, please point to a thread from y'all prior to the school being threatened.

None exist.

If you want to come here and wail about your school closing, great, this is a public forum. Trying to spin it into something other than CES closing is disingenuous at best and outright dishonest at worst.

Carry on.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

If you've been reading even half of this forum---and especially the FOIA emails, you would know this is about WAY MORE than CES closing. No law firm (and especially not one with the reputation of the one being used) would file a lawsuit if this were only about CES "whiners". There's a huge backstory here and apparently you haven't gotten it.

Yes, no prior threads exist because nobody actually thought (or wanted to really believe) that something this ridiculous would happen. If there had been rants before the closing, the Clifton people would have been criticized for ranting before the closing. Now they are criticized for ranting after even though they have some pretty darn good points. I'm glad you are giving them permission to "carry on"---as if you are in charge.

And I am not from Clifton.

You have a lot to learn about law firms. This case is DOA but it doesn't mean they won't pursue it to bill even at PB.

This is about Clifton only because everyone else figured out how FCPS really works a long time ago.

FCPS Board will always ticks off part of the county, may as well be clifton where there are not a lot of votes.

Of course some of the non-clifton board haters will jump on this bandwagon.

Shame they couldn't close it now, like quickly ripping off a bandaid, then the sting fades quickly; rather than enduring this long drawn out teeth gnashing and threatening posts.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS Board will always ticks off part of the
> county, may as well be clifton where there are not
> a lot of votes.
>
> Of course some of the non-clifton board haters
> will jump on this bandwagon.
>
> Shame they couldn't close it now, like quickly
> ripping off a bandaid, then the sting fades
> quickly; rather than enduring this long drawn out
> teeth gnashing and threatening posts.


Good Lord! Now you're beginning to sound like Liz B. Tell us, exactly which posts did you find threatening? Do you mean the ones that promise to do everything in their power to make sure Liz Bradsher never holds seat in a public office again? Those aren't threats, those are political promises.

And if you think that Clifton doesn't have enough voting power, think again. Clifton typically has the highest voter turnout in the Springfield district. Ooops!

Not so Naive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have a lot to learn about law firms. This
> case is DOA but it doesn't mean they won't pursue
> it to bill even at PB.
>
> This is about Clifton only because everyone else
> figured out how FCPS really works a long time ago.


What the Judge basically said this week is that the Courts don't like to get involved in these types of cases because these are elected officials that made the decision. If he gets in the middle of it than he has basically become a "Super Board Member." Because they are elected it would be like taking away the votes that people gave them and he doesn't want to go there. Therefore, you are probably right. The Judge is likely going to do anything he can to simply find a way out of dealing with this case.

That leads to a bigger problem though. In other levels of the government, there are usually some types of checks and balances (Ex. House and Senate). If the Board of Supervisors have absolutely no power once the money is given to the School Board and the Courts will not get involved, than there are NO checks and balances on the School Board/FCPS. That is pretty frightening considering they now get more than 54% of the County Budget/your property taxes. It makes you wonder about that old saying -- "Absolutely power corrupts absolutely."

Someone please post the email that shows Dean Tistadt received the well water results at 2:30 the day of the meeting and sat on them until the meeting started.

I guess that is what FCPS calls "strategic governance"

They strategically plot (Bradsher and Wilson) to withhold inforrmation that might very well influence votes until after the meeting starts.

THANK YOU PATTY REED FOR ASKING THAT THIS INFO BE MADE PUBLIC DURING DELIBERATIONS.

At least we have some members showing some ethics!

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MY voice Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > This is NOT just about CES. This is about
> > misappropriation of funds across the entire
> > system, and abuse of power. Are those other
> > issues more important? Not when you let all
> the
> > "little" things slide. All those "little"
> issues
> > add up pretty quickly.
> >
> >
> > So, while the folks in Clifton may be focused
> on
> > that issue at the moment, don't assume that
> they
> > are only looking out for themselves.
>
>
> This all about CES and only about CES and if the
> vote to close CES went the other way we would not
> be reading all these rants on FFXU. As a matter of
> fact, please point to a thread from y'all prior to
> the school being threatened.
>
> None exist.
>
> If you want to come here and wail about your
> school closing, great, this is a public forum.
> Trying to spin it into something other than CES
> closing is disingenuous at best and outright
> dishonest at worst.
>
> Carry on.


Actually, it is kind of like cancer. Until someone you love is personally affected by it, you only hear about it in passing and think it sounds terrible. Once you or someone you love is personally affected by it, you learn more about it and not only want to get rid of it for yourself but also have concern for people that could be affected by it in the future.

> Actually, it is kind of like cancer. Until
> someone you love is personally affected by it, you
> only hear about it in passing and think it sounds
> terrible. Once you or someone you love is
> personally affected by it, you learn more about it
> and not only want to get rid of it for yourself
> but also have concern for people that could be
> affected by it in the future.


Cancer and FCPS is an interesting analogy considering our taxes keep growing like a malignant tumor because of them and they also seem to be aimed at slowly destructing good cells (schools like Graham Road and Clifton Elementary, etc.).

WasNaive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not so Naive Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You have a lot to learn about law firms. This
> > case is DOA but it doesn't mean they won't
> pursue
> > it to bill even at PB.
> >
> > This is about Clifton only because everyone
> else
> > figured out how FCPS really works a long time
> ago.
>
>
> What the Judge basically said this week is that
> the Courts don't like to get involved in these
> types of cases because these are elected officials
> that made the decision. If he gets in the middle
> of it than he has basically become a "Super Board
> Member." Because they are elected it would be
> like taking away the votes that people gave them
> and he doesn't want to go there. Therefore, you
> are probably right. The Judge is likely going to
> do anything he can to simply find a way out of
> dealing with this case.
>
> That leads to a bigger problem though. In other
> levels of the government, there are usually some
> types of checks and balances (Ex. House and
> Senate). If the Board of Supervisors have
> absolutely no power once the money is given to the
> School Board and the Courts will not get involved,
> than there are NO checks and balances on the
> School Board/FCPS. That is pretty frightening
> considering they now get more than 54% of the
> County Budget/your property taxes. It makes you
> wonder about that old saying -- "Absolutely power
> corrupts absolutely."

Only recourse is to vote no to the school bonds. The board has no real control over FCPS.

I love Liz Bradsher. Her face should be by the definition of Hypocrite in Webster's:

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=280209&paper=72&cat=110

I guess she changed her mind.......



Who Owns the Schools?
Letter to the Editor

Thursday, March 30, 2006

To the Editor:
I have watched and read with interest the West Springfield High School (WSHS) boundary debate. As most of the Connection readers know, the WSHS Boundary Study ended on Feb. 23 with no change taking place to the current boundary.
Whether I agree with the School Board decision regarding WSHS is of little matter. What I found of interest were the various comments made by the members of the School Board during the study and vote. One such comment came from School Board member Mr. Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill District) during the Feb. 13 School Board Work Session. He questioned his fellow members on the board asking whether a community has ownership of a particular school? A corollary to this question is how does one define the community served by a particular school?
To many, the answer to such a question would seem obvious and the typical response would resemble something like this: "We live in the community of Orange Hunt therefore our children should attend Orange Hunt Elementary." This answer would no doubt be the same for parents throughout the county when pertaining to their neighborhood elementary school. With respect to an elementary school, the sense of ownership is almost subliminal. So obvious it is beyond question. The defined area or community served by the elementary school is also, in most instances quite clear. To many parents of elementary school aged children there is little room for argument regarding "ownership."
The issue however is not so black and white when it comes to schools with special programs, high schools, or even for that matter, middle schools. High schools, secondary schools and middle schools are comprised of students from varied and sometimes distant communities. This is the same for elementary schools with special programs such as those for GT and Special Needs students. These schools have students who live great distances from their school. The ownership issue and answer to Mr. Gibson's initial question is now not so easily answered. Nor is the question of community so easily defined.
Where the ownership debate will go I have no idea, but the question as well as the current perception of "school ownership" looms for the South County and Westfield communities because these communities have been recommended for future boundary studies. Comments from a Washington Post blog on the WSHS Boundary Study indicate parents, for the most part, do indeed perceive they have ownership of their high school. I suspect there are many parents in the county with the same sense of ownership when it comes to their child's school.
The School Board and the FCPS system must come to terms with the definition of what is a "community school" and "ownership of one's school." It appears the public, the School Board and school system all differ with respect to the basic philosophical definitions as well as the perceptions of these two terms. The public deserves an accountable boundary process. A process that is well defined with ranked criteria and addresses the issue of "ownership," perception, proximity, as well as community history. To refrain from addressing these issues is selling the public short. I don't think the public/parents of this county deserve that, do you?

Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
Fairfax Station

Wow. I don't think she wrote that. It sounds like somebody else who has a brain. Based on her emails, there is no way she has this kind of logic or can write like this. Where is the person or people who wrote this now???

Her middle school daughter wrote the letter.

Clifton ES was closed to remove it from the renovation queue. This action opened up a spot for West Springfield High School... remember the FOIA emails where Bradsher was working with folks from WSHS group....

The public will be voting on school board members in 2011.....which can't come soon enough......

The School Board voted in a 9-2 count to close Clifton Elementary and deprive a 40 square mile portion of the county of its community school. After in-depth analysis, participation in engagement community sessions and PTA school sessions with School Board members, I am convinced that, in contradiction to Springfield SB rep Liz Bradsher, this is NOT AN EMOTIONAL issue. It’s a CRITICAL issue and one that must be approached analytically. The closure of Clifton elementary has got to be one of the most blatant examples of incompetence in the area of facilities’ planning and of negligence in the area of school board representation. (Or perhaps the representation is lopsided and favors one segment of the population over a smaller one which would contribute a lower yield of votes as the FOIA’d e-mails above reveal?)
To demonstrate that a 23 school boundary study as proposed is an aberration, I contend that:
-The study is flawed because it is reactive not pro-active in terms of addressing overcrowding and future growth. There is no exact number or location of seats that would be obtained by the changes projected w/this boundary study.
-The study is flawed because the results have been pre-determined in a vacuum. After inquiring multiple times about issues such as transportation impact, infrastructure impact, density considerations and migratory patterns to name a few, the answer yielded invariably included “no, that’s not considered in the study†or “information not available.â€
-The boundary change concept is flawed because whoever is behind the “design†of the options set forth for the affected Fairfax County failed to provide all the necessary parameters to carry out a proper evaluation and input.
- Closing a school in Southwestern Fairfax increases overcrowding on the Southwestern corner of the County and fails to address overcrowding in other allegedly overcrowded areas geographically un-related. Affirmative, it won’t make any sense to you either.
- The expansion of the school facilities system ought to be revised thoroughly by an interdisciplinary (intergovernmental) commission that includes the planners in the DPZ, VDOT and the community they stand to serve.
Ironically, Bradsher stated the perfect rationale to the need to have this study come to a screeching halt back in 2006.
“The public deserves an accountable boundary process. …..
To refrain from addressing these issues is selling the public short. I don't
think the public/parents of this county deserve that, do you?â€

Someone writing on behalf of the infamous LB wrote:

“Explain that to us again... parents from an affluent town are complaining about being bullied. But using their financial might to pit the whims of the few against the needs of the many isn't the same thing? Can you say "hypocrite," boys and girls?â€

For any School Board member to collude with one segment of the population and play it to push for the closure of a school is not only unacceptable but un-ethical and reprehensible INDEPENDENT of the economical status of the School Board’s targets. And that might you mention is not powered by money. It’s powered by conviction, principles and information. Hypocritical is for Bradsher to falsely repeat in front of an audience she just castigated, that she cares more about their children then they do! Hypocritical is to adjudicate the desire of Clifton parents to hold the reins of their children’s education to a base desire to bully with money and not see one’s own behavior bullying a smaller segment of constituents by “playing†a larger one for political gain. It is time that she stop using this ridiculous argument as if wealth is a stigma, a sin or a crime. Tax payer dollars from ALL Americans inside Fairfax County PAY for these questionable characters like LB to follow their whims and political interests.
Bradsher keeps “pretending to be what one is not, or to feel what one does not feel; esp., a pretense of virtue, piety, etc.†and that is the definition of hypocrisy!

Seriously? Please stop consuming whatever is affecting your “dain†Mr. Bramage! This is not about hate, this is not about self-interest, and this will not go away w/the pull of a band-aid or a surgical operation. You know why? Because School Board members with a pre-determined agenda and a superintendent office with an inadequate school model that serves to expand administration rather than student benefits are…unfortunately a reality.
And saying we’ll vote them out is not a threat. It’s a promise! We understand perfectly what they, in an un-ethical and reprehensible manner, are trying to do……but obviously you don’t get it…..you reflect towards CES and its supporters undeserved ill-will and animosity which you will not feel once that infamous boundary study impacting 18,000 kids in 23 schools (to yield a “yet to be determined†# of seats and eliminate overcrowding) demands that you bus your kids out miles away in order to take in kids displaced from nearby schools! STOP THE BOUNDARY STUDY.

WasNaive: Oh - a swing and a miss...

Judge Smith said that this case involved complex issues in regard to the federal constitution and the Virginia constitution.

Judge said fundamental right of parents to educate children was decided in a Supreme Court case.

Judge siad issues have great implications.

Anyone still saying this case is frivolous? Judge disagrees with you.

Can anyone explain the real reason behind the closure of Clifton Elementary School?

The 3 reason cited by the FCSB have all been debunked according to this thread.

I have no reason to doubt the validity of the emails. What purpose would it serve the folks in Clifton to publish inaccurate versions of the email? That would be easy enough for the School Board to prove.

So assuming that the FOIA emails are accurate, you're led to believe that Clifton was closed in order to push WSHS up the queue. However, Tina Hone states during the July 8th meeting that there is nothing sanctimonious about the queue. So Clifton could have stayed open, (according to Clifton they were happy to step down so that WSHS could move up) WSHS still could have moved up the queue, Liz Bradsher could have kept both communities happy, and there wouldn't be a lawsuit now.

So,what's the real reason behind the closure of Clifton? It wasn't to save precious few capital dollars as the school board loves to claim. If that were the case, why is the system now foced to spend even more money to build additions to schools surrounding Clifton in order to take those kids in?

In an interview with Elizabeth Bradsher recently, she stated the following:

Can you elaborate on that?
I told them that this was a School Board issue. It wasn't an issue for the Board of Supervisors. And if they [advocated through] their supervisor it was going to be a detriment to them, because he does not make the decision and he does not have a good relationship with the School Board.

I've heard that.
And, hey, when you don't have a good relationship to the School Board ... They didn't listen to that. They didn't want to listen to that.

Hmmmm, sounds to me like we might be getting closer to the real reason behind the closure of Clifton Elementary. Was this about some personal grudge by Liz Bradsher? Sounds like it was out of spite, to me at least.

The public needs to see exactly how much money each of these options costs---including an option where Clifton is not closed and possibly receives more students from neighboring areas or not (which would not affect 23 schools by any stretch). All of the options could also be pitted against an option where Clifton is renovated (as another comparison). All options need to have a transportation analysis and numbers attached. Without all of that, we are blind. FCPS and the SB manipulate us by not giving us the information---telling us it isn't available, blah, blah, blah. Information is power. Yes, they have their own agenda and unless they come clean (which they won't), they will be out. I hope that Clifton can hang on to that building because someday it will be a school again. Don't stop believing. This is OUR county.

The determination of the people of Clifton is laudable. It looks like the state and even FCPS are going to help them keep a school there!!!!!!!

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/cms/story.php?id=2586

Just desserts for Liz. This new change at the state level could really, really change the power of FCPS---do them in. I think they are seeing the writing on the wall.

Clifton community rocks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The determination of the people of Clifton is
> laudable. It looks like the state and even FCPS
> are going to help them keep a school there!!!!!!!
>
>
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/cms/story.php?id=2586
>
> Just desserts for Liz. This new change at the
> state level could really, really change the power
> of FCPS---do them in. I think they are seeing the
> writing on the wall.

I think this is a fair translation of Liz's remarks to the reporter: "I don't get along well with Pat Herrity, because we're political rivals. The Clifton people spoke to him, when they realized I had it in for them, so then I really made sure they got screwed."

I don't blame the Clifton people one bit for looking into the possibility of a charter school, but it starts to make FCPS look like DCPS. Can't wait to see what the school system looks like in 10 years. Thanks a lot, Liz, for trashing a great county's reputation. By the way, you have very few friends and no political future.

Every intelligently run school district in the counrty is looking for ways to improve student performance-particulary those students from high povert homes.

Study after study shows REMOVING kids from schools with high poverty concentrations IMPROVES performance dramatically.

What do the nitwits running our school district do?

They close a HIGH PERFORMING school.

It boggles the mind.

Someone, somewhere, please suggest keeping this school open, renovate and add capacity for 100 kids,bus in high poverty kids and let's roll.

I continue to be disgusted with the general lack of common sense from these people.

empathy Wrote:
> Actually, it is kind of like cancer. Until
> someone you love is personally affected by it, you
> only hear about it in passing and think it sounds
> terrible. Once you or someone you love is
> personally affected by it, you learn more about it
> and not only want to get rid of it for yourself
> but also have concern for people that could be
> affected by it in the future.
Attachments:

Comparing the closing of an elementary school to cancer takes an unbelievable lack of self awareness. As far as I am concerned the Clifton posters on this blog got the school board member they deserve. I called my board member and told him to keep Clifton open if for no other reason then to keep these detached parents and poor role models away from the rest of the good parents in the County.

ROFL.

Now you want to stop the closing of Clifton? For this bizarre reason? Trying to find a way out of the mistake you made?

Back to reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Comparing the closing of an elementary school to
> cancer takes an unbelievable lack of self
> awareness. As far as I am concerned the Clifton
> posters on this blog got the school board member
> they deserve. I called my board member and told
> him to keep Clifton open if for no other reason
> then to keep these detached parents and poor role
> models away from the rest of the good parents in
> the County.

Why? Liz Bradsher ran on a platform of respecting community schools. Should the Clifton parents and others in the Springfield District have known that she'd quickly discard that philosophy and pit one community against another instead? Exactly how many more e-mails do you need to see to realize how terribly she's behaved?

It seems quite unlikely that you actually contacted your School Board member, but assuming you did what was his reaction to your argument?

no long term thinking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every intelligently run school district in the
> counrty is looking for ways to improve student
> performance-particulary those students from high
> povert homes.
>
> Study after study shows REMOVING kids from schools
> with high poverty concentrations IMPROVES
> performance dramatically.
>
> What do the nitwits running our school district
> do?
>
> They close a HIGH PERFORMING school.
>
> It boggles the mind.
>
> Someone, somewhere, please suggest keeping this
> school open, renovate and add capacity for 100
> kids,bus in high poverty kids and let's roll.
>
> I continue to be disgusted with the general lack
> of common sense from these people.


I agree with every word of the above post. This is so true. But FCPS school board members seem to have let their "power" corrupt their thinking over the years. Common sense and practical solutions are LONG GONE.

withholding information Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone please post the email that shows Dean
> Tistadt received the well water results at 2:30
> the day of the meeting and sat on them until the
> meeting started.
>
> I guess that is what FCPS calls "strategic
> governance"
>
> They strategically plot (Bradsher and Wilson) to
> withhold inforrmation that might very well
> influence votes until after the meeting starts.
>
> THANK YOU PATTY REED FOR ASKING THAT THIS INFO BE
> MADE PUBLIC DURING DELIBERATIONS.
>
> At least we have some members showing some ethics!


ask and you shall receive (except from the school board).
Attachments:

How many Fairfax County residents must be assaulted directly or indirectly before it is enough?
Attachments:

Here's what Liz's fellow hypocrite, Lisa Adler (former South County PTSA president) had to say in 2005:

"We're not happy," she said. "We want to see responsible discussions that don't upset the spirit of the community we worked so hard to create here. We know it would be best to see a middle school built here, but there are so many other schools with needs ahead of us in the queue."

Of course, Liz and Lisa (maybe we just call them both "Liza with a Z") decided South County should have its cake and eat it, too, and also get a new middle school, even though there is extra capacity at Hayfield and Lake Braddock.

Most of us know what happened next. West Springfield was ignored for quite a while, and then Clifton became the scapegoat for Liz's greedy, short-sighted advocacy on behalf of her Silverbrook friends.

Comanche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's what Liz's fellow hypocrite, Lisa Adler
> (former South County PTSA president) had to say in
> 2005:
>
> "We're not happy," she said. "We want to see
> responsible discussions that don't upset the
> spirit of the community we worked so hard to
> create here. We know it would be best to see a
> middle school built here, but there are so many
> other schools with needs ahead of us in the
> queue."
>
> Of course, Liz and Lisa (maybe we just call them
> both "Liza with a Z") decided South County should
> have its cake and eat it, too, and also get a new
> middle school, even though there is extra capacity
> at Hayfield and Lake Braddock.
>
> Most of us know what happened next. West
> Springfield was ignored for quite a while, and
> then Clifton became the scapegoat for Liz's
> greedy, short-sighted advocacy on behalf of her
> Silverbrook friends.


I do believe you just hit the nail on the head!

So, they're building SCOC MS but they only have just over 300 kids to put there right now. So, where do you think they are going to pull kids in from to fill that school once it's done?

Which neighborhoods currently attend Lake Braddock, but are actually much closer to SOCO? After all, LB is getting ready to take in kids from Annandale, so they'll have to pull some out of LB to make room. When is SOCO MS expected to open?

I hope everyone learns from this wonderful experience!

I suspect based upon what I have seen that the judge will enable the SB to do what they wish with Clifton.

I think that the process by which this took place is much improved as it pertains to public input via the ad hoc. Just remember kiddies, without the ad hoc, the SB would ahve voted long ago to close Clifton. Additionally, you might not have been able to become as informed as you currently are about what goes no with the SB (not that you wanted to know this information about staff or the school board).

I suspect there will be a charter school openign soon where Clifton Elem. currently is. Good for you Cliftonites. Enjoy!

As for Annandale, they need about 500 less students. Where they send them to is completely up in the air. It is a shame that they simply cannot rennovate or reconstruct Annandale (note that the latest remodels at Lake Braddock and Woodson after remodel are underenrolled). Good use of our taxpayer dollars I guess!

Clifton ES' future sold for a mow & wash?!
(while Raney talked out of both sides of his mouth?!)
Attachments:

and a cherry on top?
Attachments:

At what point did Brad Center make up his mind? Sounds like he told Bradsher before the meeting that he would vote in favor of the closure.

Was Rainey just playing Tina? It looks that way.

I am done with all of them.

We desperately need ethical people to run for our School Board. Please, someone, step up and help us.