There are a lot of very pissed off people in Clifton and this issue is far from over. Be glad you're not Liz Bradsher.

can relate Wrote:
>
> How do you know how old FFXUG readers are? I am
> over twice the age of 25! And why are people
> between ages 12 and 25 happy if their schools are
> closed? Please explain.
>
> Also, what constitutes "moaning"? Most of what I
> see on here is people trying to get the facts
> about this closing and the upcoming boundary
> study. There are a few comments with tears, but
> hey, people really buy into their communities with
> their hearts and souls (not just their
> pocketbooks) and we really should celebrate that
> commitment to community. If you are under 25,
> yes, you might not understand that (yet).

You'll have to figure out on your own who patronizes this forum most of the time.

Good if you can use the forum to gather information and mobilize, but there's an awful lot of bitching and moaning about how special Clifton is compared to the rest of the county, how screwed you were, and how particular individuals associated with FCPS are evil incarnate. That type of pity party won't get you very far.

geniuses at work Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, to summarize, the well water was much ado
> about nothing-report given to the SB members
> minutes before the vote. Can someone post the
> results if they have them?
>
> Neighboring schools to Clifton are at or near
> capacity:
>
> Sangster, Fairview, Union Mill and Willow Springs
> all at 85-90%-no way they can handle 400
> students.
>
> No plans where to put these kids.
>
> FCPS's own predictions-based on 2011-15 CIP, call
> for an increase of 6000 K-6 students by 2015, even
> though they poo-poohed the UVA report which stated
> the same thing.
>
> What am I missing?

For starters, FCPS doesn't think Clifton will have 400 students in the future.

Second, FPCS projects there will be 395 extra seats at Union Mill, Willow Springs, Sangster, Fairview and Oak View by 2014 (and, even if those projections are wrong, there are certainly other schools in the county that are above-capacity).

Third, if FCPS does a larger redistricting, they might send more students to other under-enrolled schools such as Silverbrook, as well as build a new school closer to the areas where the schools are currently over-enrolled or projected to be over-enrolled shortly.

Counter those arguments, and make the case that Clifton ES should be part of a cost-efficient, overall solution to the county's future facility needs.

While Silverbrook might have room-it borders Halley which is expected to be at 115% of capacity and Newington Forest that is at 105% by 2014-15.

Moving kids from Clifton to Silverbrook makes zero sense.

There also is an "island" that attends Oak View that could attend Clifton.

If we are all about saving money and population efficiencies than why did MISS REPUBLICAN FISCAL CONSERVATIVE BRADSHER insist on SOCO Middle during the worst recession in 70 years when Hayfield, Lee and Mt Vernon could have absorbed those kids?

Would you guys AT LEAST be consistent?

And MISS BUDGET CHAIR JANIE STRAUSS, why does Langley need additions when those kids who attend Langley who live in Herndon could go to Herndon or South Lakes?

Send the Annandale kids to Stuart and Falls Church the rich brats in the Fairfax Station island to Robinson and let's call it a day.

Stop wasting so much time on these matters and screwing it all up.

mixed messages Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And MISS BUDGET CHAIR JANIE STRAUSS, why does
> Langley need additions when those kids who attend
> Langley who live in Herndon could go to Herndon or
> South Lakes?
>

Prior to the South Lakes redistricting, there was space at South Lakes to take the Langley kids so the multimillion dollar Langley addition wasn't needed. The Langely addition having been justified by Staff & the Board because there was no space at any adjoining school - apparently because South Lakes doesn't adjoin Langley in the alternate universe they reside in. When the community was kind enough to point that in this universe they do adjoin, Staff & the Board's response was, well, Langley wasn't in the study, so Langley couldn't be considered.

At this point, we've wasted the money on the Langley addition & South Lakes is projected to be significantly over capacity while Westfield is projected to be under capacity because they moved more kids than they should have to South Lakes.

FWIW, the anti-South Lakes redistricting crowd pointed out that, using Staff's numbers, if they moved as many kids as planned, South Lakes would be over capacity & Westfield under. Tisdadt's answer - sure, those are our numbers, but it's not as if we think the kids will actually come...

So Langley HS had a new addition because the pampered Great Falls kids could not be expected to attend South Lakes. Now Langley HS also gets a remodeling on top of this?

Apparently, the FCPS school board decisions revolve entirely around Langley/McLean and the wealthy enclaves. Everyone else must suffer being shuttled around at the whims of whichever FCPS school board member wields the most clout at the moment.

tired Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So Langley HS had a new addition because the
> pampered Great Falls kids could not be expected to
> attend South Lakes. Now Langley HS also gets a
> remodeling on top of this?
>
> Apparently, the FCPS school board decisions
> revolve entirely around Langley/McLean and the
> wealthy enclaves. Everyone else must suffer
> being shuttled around at the whims of whichever
> FCPS school board member wields the most clout at
> the moment.

It is, admittedly, truly wonderful to be the center of the universe.

On the other hand, the McLean middle school (Longfellow) is one of the most over-crowded middle schools in the county, and is only now getting renovated though it was built in 1960. Perhaps Jane Strauss should have copied Liz Bradsher and lobbied for a brand-new school in the district that we didn't need, whined to get Longfellow moved up the renovation queue, and then settled her debts by agreeing to close down either Franklin Sherman or Lemon Road. Then we'd be in the same position as the folks in Clifton. Thanks, but no thanks.

genuises at work:
What the hell is the matter with you??
WHY should the Board listen to UVA #s for enrollment numbers?? They are turning over 20 of our schools into a 'holy crap our schools are at rock bottom' UVA rescue last ditch program - so you think that the completely sensible move to trust projections on student #s from UVA when they are handing over 20 whole schools to UVA is something these dolts will actually do?!
Wake up - you're having a nightmare.
Attachments:

Yikes - FCPS Board gross errors are showing up on Forbes.com
Dr. Dale, might want to brush up on that resume - maybe Frederick, MD will take you back.

Community Troubled by School Board Decision to Close Clifton Elementary School

http://rate.forbes.com/comments/CommentServlet?op=cpage&type=new&sourcename=story&StoryURI=feeds/prnewswire/2010/07/09/prnewswire201007091604PR_NEWS_USPR_____DC33089.html&com=137182&partner=emailcomments

It's a tough pill to swallow, but let's face it, Clifton needs to be closed. Capital funding is limited and it's for the greater good of the county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate overcrowding and consolidate small and run down Clifton ES.

The school sits on the crest of a large hill overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its site cannot be developed. Staff said it would also be difficult to fit a staging area for a construction team on Clifton’s site, and the school’s renovation would necessitate the loss of trees and the leveling of a small hill at the back of the building.

The school is not on a normal sewage or water system, which also drives up construction and ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is the only Fairfax school that uses well water, which not only complicates the installation of sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking water quality issues since the 1990s, said staff.

The school system has estimated that the cost closing Clifton, building a new school on the Liberty campus and constructing additions at other schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall. To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity issues in western Fairfax would cost more, approximately $21.5 million, according to a presentation given to the School Board June 10.

Clifton residents said they would be happy with a scaled-back renovation plan, where not much more than the mechanical system would be replaced and a sprinkler system would be installed.

But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton open, school staff has advised that it proceed with a full-scale renovation, since several features of Clifton’s current building are outdated.

AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation, Clifton’s renovation costs would still be relatively high on a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the small schools in the county.

The average elementary school in Fairfax houses approximately 675 students and Clifton’s building can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using housing data and local birth rate information, the school system has also projected that Clifton’s student body would decline to fewer than 300 students over the next four to five years.

"The overhead for an elementary school with 300 students is not dissimilar to the overhead of an elementary school with 600 students. You still need to have a principal, an assistant principal, a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.

From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled water to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well water unsafe to drink, according to a report by a citizen advisory committee.

If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a school well fails, the school system could end up spending approximately $300,000 to fix Clifton’s water quality issues. FCPS would then have to spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep and monitoring of the well system, according to a citizen advisory report.

rumor has it the county is going to turn it into a homeless shelter.

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yikes - FCPS Board gross errors are showing up on
> Forbes.com
> Dr. Dale, might want to brush up on that resume -
> maybe Frederick, MD will take you back.
>
> Community Troubled by School Board Decision to
> Close Clifton Elementary School
>
> http://rate.forbes.com/comments/CommentServlet?op=
> cpage&type=new&sourcename=story&StoryURI=feeds/prn
> ewswire/2010/07/09/prnewswire201007091604PR_NEWS_U
> SPR_____DC33089.html&com=137182&partner=emailcomme
> nts

I thought this was clever - even though Forbes is simply providing a portal to a PR Newswire release, like Yahoo, you made it sound like someone at Forbes actually cares about the Fairfax County School Board's decision. A bit disingenuous, yes, but all's fair in love and war.

It wasn't the forbes.com posting that was of interest - I would say I am relatively bright and can deduce it was distributed through by PR Newswire (it says as much at the bottom of the article) by the "Clifton Betterment Association" (which is? Is this the new Clifton Red?).
The simple fact that it was picked up and posted gets the subject traction and the highlight was someone commenting on the article.
The sinful shell game the School Board has been playing while neglecting the students and education throughout the County - their raison d'etre - is coming to an end.
Dean Tistadt hopping on this forum under 'Close It' post above won't stop the light from being shone on his misdeeds. Good thing your retirement papers are already in, Tistadt. What a convenient time to plan your exit - just as the house of cards is about to come tumbling down.

Janie Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tired Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So Langley HS had a new addition because the
> > pampered Great Falls kids could not be expected
> to
> > attend South Lakes. Now Langley HS also gets
> a
> > remodeling on top of this?
> >
> > Apparently, the FCPS school board decisions
> > revolve entirely around Langley/McLean and the
> > wealthy enclaves. Everyone else must suffer
> > being shuttled around at the whims of whichever
> > FCPS school board member wields the most clout
> at
> > the moment.
>
> It is, admittedly, truly wonderful to be the
> center of the universe.
>
> On the other hand, the McLean middle school
> (Longfellow) is one of the most over-crowded
> middle schools in the county, and is only now
> getting renovated though it was built in 1960.
> Perhaps Jane Strauss should have copied Liz
> Bradsher and lobbied for a brand-new school in the
> district that we didn't need, whined to get
> Longfellow moved up the renovation queue, and then
> settled her debts by agreeing to close down either
> Franklin Sherman or Lemon Road. Then we'd be in
> the same position as the folks in Clifton.
> Thanks, but no thanks.


Eh...Strauss pisses money away but nothing like Bradsher. Strauss has some immersion programs and her Langley addition.

That is nothing like Bradsher with a whole f'ing middle school. Add Storck, Connelly, hyland, Herrity, Albo et al [plus Hone] to the let's build a new Reston/Columbia MD at Lorton group.

Still waiting for the special tax district for the Bradsher area. reston has one and so does Mclean. Strauss, Gibson, Smith need to get some real balls along with the majority of the Board of Supervisors.

Close it/Tistadt
"Capital funding is limited and it's for the greater good of the county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate overcrowding and consolidate small and run down Clifton ES."

July 1, 2010:
"The Liberty site is not ideally located to solve the problem," said Tistadt. "Perhaps we rushed a little bit with the initial recommendation."
[www.connectionnewspapers.com]
'rushed'? 'RUSHED'? a year plus? money, time, effort, hearings, work sessions, business meetings, ad hoc committees, subcomittees, FINAL STAFF REPORT, 'rushed'????????????????????????????
Attachments:

Wow. Great pictures!

Rushed?!!!! Didn't they know about the asbestos a year ago?! Why did they even entertain putting the idea of building a new school at Liberty Middle out there for the Subcommittee to discuss? Of course, it did generate a lot of documentation that they can now just keep saying "The information is out on the internet". Maybe the documentation was more about volume of documentation than contents?

Unlike the vacuous souls on the SB, some can admit when they are off on "projections", "estimates", "dollars", etc.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/School-closing-was-neither-fair_-nor-transparent-1001700-98768509.html
Since real nubmer for gilded tower of shame FCPS wanted to encase their bloated bureaucracy in was ONLY $130 MILLION, here you go:
Attachments:

Skeptic wrote:

Good if you can use the forum to gather information and mobilize, but there's an awful lot of bitching and moaning about how special Clifton is compared to the rest of the county, how screwed you were, and how particular individuals associated with FCPS are evil incarnate. That type of pity party won't get you very far.


Yes, we were screwed (everyone in Fairfax County). Yes, bad deeds occurred. And, yes, this "party" will get us far---be worried. When people see the facts and what happened, they will get just a bit angry---that's what it takes to change things sometimes. I think "pity" is actually a strange choice of words here---we don't ask for "pity"---we ask for truth, justice and democracy. We are on the high road and you are accusing us of being on the low one. Not even close. I would be proud of my neighbors if I lived in Clifton.

can relate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Skeptic wrote:
>
> Good if you can use the forum to gather
> information and mobilize, but there's an awful lot
> of bitching and moaning about how special Clifton
> is compared to the rest of the county, how screwed
> you were, and how particular individuals
> associated with FCPS are evil incarnate. That type
> of pity party won't get you very far.
>
>
> Yes, we were screwed (everyone in Fairfax County).
> Yes, bad deeds occurred. And, yes, this "party"
> will get us far---be worried. When people see the
> facts and what happened, they will get just a bit
> angry---that's what it takes to change things
> sometimes. I think "pity" is actually a strange
> choice of words here---we don't ask for
> "pity"---we ask for truth, justice and democracy.
> We are on the high road and you are accusing us of
> being on the low one. Not even close. I would be
> proud of my neighbors if I lived in Clifton.

Why would I be worried? I'd just rather see you engage in effective advocacy and try to engage the larger community than post cartoon drawings and make whiny comments that aren't really befitting of parents, teachers or other purported authority figures.

Having said that, the Examiner piece is exactly the type of piece you ought to be trying to place in the local press. The School Board would like this to be finished business, so keep the issue alive while the school is still open.

Is Gatehouse II still empty? The Red Cross left in October 2008-so this Fall would be 2 years empty if nobody has occupied it.

Kinda funny that nobody else has seen the extraordinary "value" in the property that FCPS saw.

St Gibson's best line yet..."I think its a great time to buy real estate!". Anyone who wants to take his seat on the School Board needs to run that clip on a few ads-that should bury him for good.

Also, what did that fancy system in the parking lot at Gatehouse I cost us? The one that tells you if there is an empty space available. That had to me a few mill.

2011 can't get here fast enough.

PS I like the cartoons and pictures-keep em coming!

Cartoons are very effective. The cartoons---especially the last one---make an important statement. Media uses political cartoons (with all manner of drawings of public officials) all the time---they are very effective. If an "authority figure" can't handle that, maybe they are in the wrong spot. The schools (gasp) even have kids drawing those for projects. Maybe the SB ought to stop that practice as it may not be "befitting".

can relate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cartoons are very effective. The
> cartoons---especially the last one---make an
> important statement. Media uses political
> cartoons (with all manner of drawings of public
> officials) all the time---they are very effective.
> If an "authority figure" can't handle that, maybe
> they are in the wrong spot. The schools (gasp)
> even have kids drawing those for projects. Maybe
> the SB ought to stop that practice as it may not
> be "befitting".

You have to pick your shots. Most of these cartoons are really lame, D+ efforts and, if shared with the audience you'd like to support you, would probably have the opposite effect.

So people can only post things here if they are "professional" and of "artistic" quality? I guess you FCPS administrators can afford hire staff for all of that artwork you use on your pamphlets and website (with our tax dollars) so that it is "professional" and "befitting". Sorry that we can't do that. I think you're afraid that we are going to share our cartoons with a wider audience and they will in fact "get it". You are so pompous that you think people only respond to your "beautiful and professional art". People see through that in a heartbeat. They know when they are being taken. Get over it. I think your efforts to stop us "whiners and moaners" are pretty much D- efforts (since you are giving grades here). We've got the creative edge. You can only complain about our cartoons and the fact that we are complaining (no content in your discussion).

can relate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So people can only post things here if they are
> "professional" and of "artistic" quality? I guess
> you FCPS administrators can afford hire staff for
> all of that artwork you use on your pamphlets and
> website (with our tax dollars) so that it is
> "professional" and "befitting". Sorry that we
> can't do that. I think you're afraid that we are
> going to share our cartoons with a wider audience
> and they will in fact "get it". You are so
> pompous that you think people only respond to your
> "beautiful and professional art". People see
> through that in a heartbeat. They know when they
> are being taken. Get over it. I think your
> efforts to stop us "whiners and moaners" are
> pretty much D- efforts (since you are giving
> grades here). We've got the creative edge. You
> can only complain about our cartoons and the fact
> that we are complaining (no content in your
> discussion).

I'm not an FCPS board member, administrator, teacher or staff member, but you certainly come across as paranoid and immature when you so label everyone who disagrees with you or your tactics.

Perhaps you've just been in a Clifton bubble a bit too long, and will learn to deal effectively with the larger world some day. Based on your responses, I've decided to make a contribution next year to each School Board member who runs again and voted in favor of closing Clifton ES. Screw you.

I don't live in Clifton so I guess you are coming across as paranoid and immature (by your very own definition of that).

Your statement on "dealing with the larger world" is laughable since my full-time job is working in a world about as opposite Clifton as you can imagine (Let's just say my job involves risk and unsavory situations). I'm glad you are making a contribution to school board members. Good luck. Your "screw you" and etc. only verifies that you belong on that side of this issue---I wouldn't really expect you to be anywhere else given everything you have said so far. I'm sure glad you aren't an administrator, SB, or teacher since your attitude toward people who disagree with you is so poor. At least my kid won't have to come into contact with you. Since you said "screw you" and you have made your decision, I hope you stick with it and don't let anyone sway you---no matter what the facts are---because people who live in Clifton are in a "bubble" and don't deserve any consideration.

can relate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't live in Clifton so I guess you are coming
> across as paranoid and immature (by your very own
> definition of that).
>
> Your statement on "dealing with the larger world"
> is laughable since my full-time job is working in
> a world about as opposite Clifton as you can
> imagine (Let's just say my job involves risk and
> unsavory situations). I'm glad you are making a
> contribution to school board members. Good luck.
> Your "screw you" and etc. only verifies that you
> belong on that side of this issue---I wouldn't
> really expect you to be anywhere else given
> everything you have said so far. I'm sure glad
> you aren't an administrator, SB, or teacher since
> your attitude toward people who disagree with you
> is so poor. At least my kid won't have to come
> into contact with you. Since you said "screw you"
> and you have made your decision, I hope you stick
> with it and don't let anyone sway you---no matter
> what the facts are---because people who live in
> Clifton are in a "bubble" and don't deserve any
> consideration.


When do facts matter in a political decision?

can relate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't live in Clifton so I guess you are coming
> across as paranoid and immature (by your very own
> definition of that).
>
> Your statement on "dealing with the larger world"
> is laughable since my full-time job is working in
> a world about as opposite Clifton as you can
> imagine (Let's just say my job involves risk and
> unsavory situations). I'm glad you are making a
> contribution to school board members. Good luck.
> Your "screw you" and etc. only verifies that you
> belong on that side of this issue---I wouldn't
> really expect you to be anywhere else given
> everything you have said so far. I'm sure glad
> you aren't an administrator, SB, or teacher since
> your attitude toward people who disagree with you
> is so poor. At least my kid won't have to come
> into contact with you. Since you said "screw you"
> and you have made your decision, I hope you stick
> with it and don't let anyone sway you---no matter
> what the facts are---because people who live in
> Clifton are in a "bubble" and don't deserve any
> consideration.

If you really have a job that involves "significant risk and unsavory situations," one can only tremble for our country, given how utterly poor you are at assessing information and making a compelling argument. With allies like you, Clifton residents need no friends.

Screw you stands.

Close it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a tough pill to swallow, but let's face it,
> Clifton needs to be closed. Capital funding is
> limited and it's for the greater good of the
> county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate
> overcrowding and consolidate small and run down
> Clifton ES.
>
> The school sits on the crest of a large hill
> overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its
> site cannot be developed. Staff said it would also
> be difficult to fit a staging area for a
> construction team on Clifton’s site, and the
> school’s renovation would necessitate the loss of
> trees and the leveling of a small hill at the back
> of the building.
>
> The school is not on a normal sewage or water
> system, which also drives up construction and
> ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is the
> only Fairfax school that uses well water, which
> not only complicates the installation of
> sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking
> water quality issues since the 1990s, said staff.
>
>
> The school system has estimated that the cost
> closing Clifton, building a new school on the
> Liberty campus and constructing additions at other
> schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall.
> To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity
> issues in western Fairfax would cost more,
> approximately $21.5 million, according to a
> presentation given to the School Board June 10.
>
> Clifton residents said they would be happy with a
> scaled-back renovation plan, where not much more
> than the mechanical system would be replaced and a
> sprinkler system would be installed.
>
> But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton
> open, school staff has advised that it proceed
> with a full-scale renovation, since several
> features of Clifton’s current building are
> outdated.
>
> AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation, Clifton’s
> renovation costs would still be relatively high on
> a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the
> small schools in the county.
>
> The average elementary school in Fairfax houses
> approximately 675 students and Clifton’s building
> can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using
> housing data and local birth rate information, the
> school system has also projected that Clifton’s
> student body would decline to fewer than 300
> students over the next four to five years.
>
> "The overhead for an elementary school with 300
> students is not dissimilar to the overhead of an
> elementary school with 600 students. You still
> need to have a principal, an assistant principal,
> a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.
>
> From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an
> average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled water
> to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well
> water unsafe to drink, according to a report by a
> citizen advisory committee.
>
> If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a
> school well fails, the school system could end up
> spending approximately $300,000 to fix Clifton’s
> water quality issues. FCPS would then have to
> spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep and
> monitoring of the well system, according to a
> citizen advisory report.

Very happy here that Mrs. Bradsher and her colleagues had the courage to do what was right for the county AS A WHOLE!!

WestPoMama:
Is that Liz doing the right thing for the County 'as-a-whole'?
We agree - she couldn't be MORE OF A WHOLE if she tried.
Just wait - YOU ARE NEXT. Let's see if your love affair continues when she comes for your kiddies and half the cty in the boundary 'study'.
See if she is treating you 'asawhole' like she has the rest of the cty, not just Clifton - LRR parents unite. She's shoving 1,000 of your babes into a massive facility. There's only one way this will be over for all of us...
Attachments:

Skeptical wrote:

Most FFXUG readers are probably between 12-25 and would be happy if their schools were closed, if not leveled entirely.


Now I get it---you're somewhere between 12-25. And you'd be happy to see more schools leveled.


Skeptical wrote:

I'd just rather see you engage in effective advocacy and try to engage the larger community than post cartoon drawings and make whiny comments that aren't really befitting of parents, teachers or other purported authority figures.

Skeptical wrote:

Based on your responses, I've decided to make a contribution next year to each School Board member who runs again and voted in favor of closing Clifton ES. Screw you.


Is the "screw you" comment "befitting"? Oh, I guess that "befitting" standard is only applied to parents, teachers or other purported authority figures. Got it.

And you are making contributions to school board members based on MY responses? ROFL. You don't even know who I am and I am the deciding factor in your political contributions? You humor me. I feel honored (sorry other posters---your responses did not matter).

Close it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a tough pill to swallow, but let's face it,
> Clifton needs to be closed. Capital funding is
> limited and it's for the greater good of the
> county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate
> overcrowding and consolidate small and run down
> Clifton ES.
>
> The school sits on the crest of a large hill
> overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its
> site cannot be developed. Staff said it would also
> be difficult to fit a staging area for a
> construction team on Clifton’s site, and the
> school’s renovation would necessitate the loss of
> trees and the leveling of a small hill at the back
> of the building.
>
> The school is not on a normal sewage or water
> system, which also drives up construction and
> ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is the
> only Fairfax school that uses well water, which
> not only complicates the installation of
> sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking
> water quality issues since the 1990s, said staff.
>
>
> The school system has estimated that the cost
> closing Clifton, building a new school on the
> Liberty campus and constructing additions at other
> schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall.
> To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity
> issues in western Fairfax would cost more,
> approximately $21.5 million, according to a
> presentation given to the School Board June 10.
>
> Clifton residents said they would be happy with a
> scaled-back renovation plan, where not much more
> than the mechanical system would be replaced and a
> sprinkler system would be installed.
>
> But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton
> open, school staff has advised that it proceed
> with a full-scale renovation, since several
> features of Clifton’s current building are
> outdated.
>
> AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation, Clifton’s
> renovation costs would still be relatively high on
> a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the
> small schools in the county.
>
> The average elementary school in Fairfax houses
> approximately 675 students and Clifton’s building
> can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using
> housing data and local birth rate information, the
> school system has also projected that Clifton’s
> student body would decline to fewer than 300
> students over the next four to five years.
>
> "The overhead for an elementary school with 300
> students is not dissimilar to the overhead of an
> elementary school with 600 students. You still
> need to have a principal, an assistant principal,
> a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.
>
> From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an
> average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled water
> to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well
> water unsafe to drink, according to a report by a
> citizen advisory committee.
>
> If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a
> school well fails, the school system could end up
> spending approximately $300,000 to fix Clifton’s
> water quality issues. FCPS would then have to
> spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep and
> monitoring of the well system, according to a
> citizen advisory report.

Very happy here that Mrs. Bradsher and her colleagues had the courage to do what was right for the county AS A WHOLE!!

Has Bradsher become at "at large" school board member? I thought we elected these people by community (district) so that our communities would be represented? Is this no longer the case???

Here's what needs to happen in order to get local control back:

FFX County needs to be divided up into 4 or 5 different "school districts". These districts need to have the power to collect property taxes (and set rates). In this way, communities would not be treated as part of "a whole", but as important entities with their own power. Each citizen's power has been diluted by this idea of being part of "the whole". Having school board representatives from various districts is supposed to help ensure that this community aspect is taken into account. Liz Bradsher either did not understand this or did not care to protect her constituents in a way that would be consistent with her position. As FFX County grows, people will feel more and more disenfranchised if this continues. People want to feel like part of a community---not like part of a 1 million plus area. Big cities have neighborhoods that are held together by common public facilities---like schools, parks, playing fields, sports leagues, etc. This is how people wish to live---it is in our nature to want to "belong" to a community. It helps us know our neighbors and keeps our communities safer. This has been going on since the agricultural revolution. Is it any wonder that people get upset?

Once Skeptical, Now Decided:
>"you've just been in a Clifton bubble a bit too long, and will learn to deal >effectively with the larger world some day. Based on your responses, I've >decided to make a contribution next year to each School Board member who runs >again and voted in favor of closing Clifton ES. Screw you."

Exactly, please, share what is a "Clifton bubble"? Is that caring about the future of our children's education, our neighborhood, our community? Is it wanting to support small businesses, honor Virginia history and not pave over every blade of grass left in this county? Is it caring about surrounding communities enough to fight tirelessly against negligence and malfeasance by the Board and its abuse of power, wasteful spending and increasing failed educational policies?

Throw a 'screw us' if it makes you feel better - but the fight is for ALL county kids, families, neighborhood schools, incomes, home values, job stability and more.

You already give the School Board .54 cents of every tax dollar. The Board of Supervisors had to raise property taxes in a down economy to close the bloated budget gap of the School Board crying poor mouth (though they have $3.3B at their disposal). If you want to give them more money, go ahead. It'll go into the black hole with the rest of our dollars and they will keep threatening school sports, special education, guidance counselors and more.

Do you even know what we lost this year to the self-indulgent Jack Dale, Inc.?
Top level...
130 core high school teachers
80 core middle school teachers
234 core elementary teachers
14 librarian positions

When will the Board of Supervisors and taxpayers say enough? When we give the School Board 60%, 65%...70%? When do management policies come into question? When they cut the above and none of the 17 assistant superintendents earning six figures+?

You say screw you? Welcome to 'you' too. We are screwed, thanks to the School Board, especially Kathy, Tessie, Stu and Liz in a four way tie for this dubious first (rock bottom?) place. Jane you are a really close second.
Dan and Brad...there's still hope. Get out your garlic & turn to the light.

I'm another Fairfax resident, parent and voter who thinks FCPS made the right decision to close a small school that had fewer students each year. Enough of this "caviar for Clifton and South County residents, and ground chuck for everyone else in the county."

Caviar for Langley High School. No ground chuck (South Lakes) for Great Falls residents.

won't go away Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's what needs to happen in order to get local
> control back:
>
> FFX County needs to be divided up into 4 or 5
> different "school districts". These districts
> need to have the power to collect property taxes
> (and set rates). In this way, communities would
> not be treated as part of "a whole", but as
> important entities with their own power. Each
> citizen's power has been diluted by this idea of
> being part of "the whole". Having school board
> representatives from various districts is supposed
> to help ensure that this community aspect is taken
> into account. Liz Bradsher either did not
> understand this or did not care to protect her
> constituents in a way that would be consistent
> with her position. As FFX County grows, people
> will feel more and more disenfranchised if this
> continues. People want to feel like part of a
> community---not like part of a 1 million plus
> area. Big cities have neighborhoods that are held
> together by common public facilities---like
> schools, parks, playing fields, sports leagues,
> etc. This is how people wish to live---it is in
> our nature to want to "belong" to a community. It
> helps us know our neighbors and keeps our
> communities safer. This has been going on since
> the agricultural revolution. Is it any wonder
> that people get upset?

Amen. My only question is whether 4-5 is enough. That's still 200K, far larger than nearly all northern community-based districts.

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Throw a 'screw us' if it makes you feel better -
> but the fight is for ALL county kids, families,
> neighborhood schools, incomes, home values, job
> stability and more.

How, exactly, have you fought for ALL county kids?

I suspect that you didn't give a hoot about FCPS spending until the budget ax hit close to home for you. If I am incorrect, please provide specific examples of your previous efforts.

/end of thread

Dane Bramage Wrote:
> How, exactly, have you fought for ALL county
> kids?
>
> I suspect that you didn't give a hoot about FCPS
> spending until the budget ax hit close to home for
> you. If I am incorrect, please provide specific
> examples of your previous efforts.

Word.

+1

Edukated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dane Bramage Wrote:
> > How, exactly, have you fought for ALL county
> > kids?
> >
> > I suspect that you didn't give a hoot about
> FCPS
> > spending until the budget ax hit close to home
> for
> > you. If I am incorrect, please provide specific
> > examples of your previous efforts.
>
> Word.
>
> +1


If you're not interested in the topic, please feel free to leave. For those interested in the TRUTH in how the FCPS School Board is screwing the taxpayers in Fairfax County, this is the thread for you!

You know what, you're right, I personally did not give one damn about the School Board before this started, and you know what, I wish I still didn't know how they operate! It disgustingly frightening!!

So please feel free to remain in your blissfully ignorant world and not give a damn about how your tax dollars are being flushed down the toilet. Nobody is forcing you to read this thread.

Just like nobody in Clifton was asking for anything from the County in regards to renovations. Nothing.

Outing you, Dane Bramage -
This is a SRPS committee member who has a bizarre sense of loyalty to the board and hours worked rather than interests of students.
Story on street is this member is going to working in the school system. Will be an interesting develop - keep your eyes on this issue.
If it happens, you may have a Blagojevich on your hands - and even more of case than you have already. Be careful. Bit of a wingnut.

Good luck - we are spreading the word, because we have the lowest projected enrollment in the study and can only imagine what they are going to the Cub Run school families next.

can relate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't live in Clifton so I guess you are coming
> across as paranoid and immature (by your very own
> definition of that).
>
> Your statement on "dealing with the larger world"
> is laughable since my full-time job is working in
> a world about as opposite Clifton as you can
> imagine (Let's just say my job involves risk and
> unsavory situations). I'm glad you are making a
> contribution to school board members. Good luck.
> Your "screw you" and etc. only verifies that you
> belong on that side of this issue---I wouldn't
> really expect you to be anywhere else given
> everything you have said so far. I'm sure glad
> you aren't an administrator, SB, or teacher since
> your attitude toward people who disagree with you
> is so poor. At least my kid won't have to come
> into contact with you. Since you said "screw you"
> and you have made your decision, I hope you stick
> with it and don't let anyone sway you---no matter
> what the facts are---because people who live in
> Clifton are in a "bubble" and don't deserve any
> consideration.


When do facts matter in a political decision?




This is precisely why we need to get the politicians out of education and why education has been going downhill for the past 25 years. It is getting worse. Parents and educators need to take back their schools and get these power hungry idiots out!

this is a problem Wrote:
>
> When do facts matter in a political decision?
>
> This is precisely why we need to get the
> politicians out of education and why education has
> been going downhill for the past 25 years. It is
> getting worse. Parents and educators need to take
> back their schools and get these power hungry
> idiots out!

Exactly - let's defer to the decisions made by professional staff rather than politicians.

Oops, seems like staff wanted to close Clifton ES as well. And a School Board appointed by the Board of Supervisors, rather than elected, might have made the same decision.

Back to square one.

For those posters who agree with the decision to close Clifton based on economic reasons, I think you are being a bit dishonest with your comments.

Anyone-with a brain- has to be troubled with the PROCESS.

Liz Bradsher, SB member, bold-faced lying to the community that she was going to help them save their school.

The release of the water report minutes before the meeting, when all along FCPS claimes the water quality was a factor in the closing.

The continued claims of fiscal responsibility, when in fact, this school board RARELY acts fiscally responsible. Examples such as GH II and SOCO MS have been mentioned often.

We are ALL impacted when the process is corrupt. The system is broken when elected officials lie and threaten people who disagree with them.

These issues hurt ALL OF THE KIDS in this school district.

On this, we should all agree.

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Throw a 'screw us' if it makes you feel better -
> but the fight is for ALL county kids, families,
> neighborhood schools, incomes, home values, job
> stability and more.

How, exactly, have you fought for ALL county kids?

I suspect that you didn't give a hoot about FCPS spending until the budget ax hit close to home for you. If I am incorrect, please provide specific examples of your previous efforts.


I think this poster means that this fight is about the way the system works (didn't work in this case). The fight for ALL kids is not about the past---it's about the future. The poster sees that this decision is a preview of what is to come for the rest of the county (and they should get ready for their own fights). In this sense, the poster did fight for ALL the kids----all the kids who might be next on the list.

The idea of "gold plated" school renovations might just be a thing of the past anyway (at least until the economy recovers). It seems that the Clifton community was ready to realize that, but that the SB and FCPS staff isn't. We can no longer afford the programs that we built in the 2000's. That money was not "real". I think it's ironic that posters talk about the Clifton "bubble" that those people supposedly live in when we were all living in a "bubble" for the past decade. We all know that now, but we haven't accepted that we can't have all of it yet.

I think it's a huge mistake to close a community school in any case. During hard times, we need our community spirit more than ever. We don't need to "supersize" everything in America. That whole mentality seems to have led to where we are now. Some of the best schools in America are some of the smallest ones and they have produced a lot of the economic engine of this country. How many people on this forum went to an elementary school with 650 students (or more)? I sure as heck didn't---mine had less than 200 and amazingly we could afford it (we didn't have a counselor, a GT program, a FLES program, an assistant principal, or IA's)---but we had art, music, band, strings, PE, a librarian, a nurse, etc. We also had a HUGE playground and we played a lot (no obesity). I have done fine since then (don't think not having things like that held me back).

I really think the vote to close Clifton needs to be revisited and I think the Clifton residents should petition the board for that. Don't give up.

Things like Langley, SOCO, Gatehouse II happened or were on the table when the tax dollars were flowing in like a river. My property taxes doubled from 2000-2006! It was ridiculous. All of their projections about the future were based on the bubble inflating seemingly forever. Now it has crashed and they had better "get real" about what taxpayers can afford. The SB has to be truthful and stop playing shell games. If they try to hide facts and play games, the truth will eventually out. The money is not coming back anytime soon and it will be extremely hard to raise taxes if nobody trusts them. We might honestly see votes on construction bonds turned down if people get the idea that the system for building and renovations is unfair and stacked. And "gold plated".

Things like Langley, SOCO, GH II happened SMACK IN THE MIDDLE of the economic crisis. The boneheads on the SB were voting to approve a $130 million purchase of an office building in the Spring of 2009 while the stock market was crashing, banks were being bailed out and TARP was thrown together to avoid an utter collapse of the Western World's banking system!!!

We broke ground on SOCO MS two months ago!!! Huh? They were just put on the 2009 bond referendum-so why build that school ahead of 2005 and 2007 projects?

This SB has no clue how to spend the $2 billion plus wisely. To say otherwise is contrary to the facts.

why Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Things like Langley, SOCO, Gatehouse II happened
> or were on the table when the tax dollars were
> flowing in like a river. My property taxes
> doubled from 2000-2006! It was ridiculous. All
> of their projections about the future were based
> on the bubble inflating seemingly forever. Now it
> has crashed and they had better "get real" about
> what taxpayers can afford. The SB has to be
> truthful and stop playing shell games. If they
> try to hide facts and play games, the truth will
> eventually out. The money is not coming back
> anytime soon and it will be extremely hard to
> raise taxes if nobody trusts them. We might
> honestly see votes on construction bonds turned
> down if people get the idea that the system for
> building and renovations is unfair and stacked.
> And "gold plated".

This is revisionist history. SoCo Middle was rammed through quite recently, when it was already clear that dollars coming into the system were declining and that there was capacity elsewhere to serve students. People in other parts of the county were vehemently against this school, but Liz Bradsher and her political allies and constituents shoved it down our throats.

Given that recent experience, why should FCPS Staff believe anyone in that area who says they don't want more money lavished on them? They apparently concluded that Clifton residents were prepared to turn down money this year to keep the school open, but would be back asking for lots more money as soon as the coast was clear.

Everyone dumps on Stu Gibson constantly, but at least he tried to keep SoCo Middle from getting built.

Liz Bradsher sure has her hands in a lot of things.

Hmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz Bradsher sure has her hands in a lot of
> things.


Too bad they're not in handcuffs!

Lizzie Bradsher took an axe,
Then gave Clifton forty whacks,
When she saw what she had done,
She turned her sights on the next one...

WHO'S NEXT?!

School SY 14/15 SY14/15 % Full
Enroll Capacity
Cub Run ES 431 631 68%
Silverbrook ES 726 982 74%
Virginia Run ES 676 835 81%
Willow Springs ES 697 819 85%
Deer Park ES 680 791 86%
Clifton ES 325 374 87%
Navy ES 774 875 88%
Sangster ES 821 922 89%
Terra Centre ES 526 594 89%
Fairview ES 611 680 90%
Laurel Ridge ES 853 945 90%
Union Mill ES 698 779 90%
Attachments:

Thousands were spent on bottled water for students and staff, now it seems the wells are fine. As a taxpayer I demand Clifton pay us back for this fraud and waste!

Pay us back Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thousands were spent on bottled water for students
> and staff, now it seems the wells are fine. As a
> taxpayer I demand Clifton pay us back for this
> fraud and waste!


You demand CLIFTON pay you back? It's the Health Dept. that declared the well unsafe for potable water. Not Clifton residents!

And yes, now the well is fine. You can thank the FCPS School Board for fixing a well so they could close the school. If you want anyone to pay you back for waste and fraud, you better look to the School Board.

RUnuts? Wrote:
> You demand CLIFTON pay you back? It's the Health
> Dept. that declared the well unsafe for potable
> water. Not Clifton residents!
>
> And yes, now the well is fine. You can thank the
> FCPS School Board for fixing a well so they could
> close the school. If you want anyone to pay you
> back for waste and fraud, you better look to the
> School Board.

So true. And, anyway, if you want to follow this thread, the people in Clifton expect you to drink their kool aid, not their well water. Get with the program!

Whoa---they spent $2,000 to bring in water. Two thousand??? Let's see---that comes to about $5 per kid. A whopping sum---terrible waste I say! And let's make them pay for their own soap and toilet paper in the bathrooms too! You know how wasteful those Clifton types are anyway. It's just outrageous.

I wonder how much it costs to have that exercise facility over at Gatehouse (more than 2K I'll bet).

CvilleDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Outing you, Dane Bramage -
> This is a SRPS committee member who has a bizarre
> sense of loyalty to the board and hours worked
> rather than interests of students.
> Story on street is this member is going to working
> in the school system. Will be an interesting
> develop - keep your eyes on this issue.
> If it happens, you may have a Blagojevich on your
> hands - and even more of case than you have
> already. Be careful. Bit of a wingnut.
>
> Good luck - we are spreading the word, because we
> have the lowest projected enrollment in the study
> and can only imagine what they are going to the
> Cub Run school families next.


You're delusional. I was here posting long before the decision was made to is shut down the Clifton money pit. If you view the other posts that I made over the last year, you'll quickly see that I am not connected to FCPS.

And...if Cub Run is another run down school with declining enrollment it should be shut and consolidated also.

Liz - you are a liar. Get over it and own the fact that you have now stepped on, abused and manipulated enough people that they are now motivated to catch you in it. You worked hard for this reputation - you got it all on your own.
Stu, Kathy, Tessie - You are right there in the muck with her.

Here's proof = great jpeg+...before someone finds out, ok ok - admit to clepping from another site. This is just too good not to share.

http://www.fcps.edu/news/documents/FeasibilityStudyCliftonandSWFC_000.pdf

Facilities Work Session - July 13, 2009

Transportation
The present location of Clifton Elementary School presents only limited concerns from a transportation perspective, since there is limited space for loading/unloading of buses and no provision for overnight bus parking. In addition, the steep hill used to enter the school can present issues in inclement weather. These concerns are limited provided that enrollment remains relatively flat.

Should the population increase and additional buses be needed to support the school, transportation concerns will increase due to the limited space available onsite. Further, if the attendance area is enlarged to support a larger school facility at the present site, then the need for students to traverse the narrow roads near the school would create new issues for families not familiar with the Clifton area. While families living in Clifton expect to traverse those roads, families being bused from other communities may not be familiar with the roads.

[NOTE: Fairfax County parents and taxpayers - you are TOO STUPID to learn how to drive on new roads per your Big Brother, the Fairfax County School Board]

At this time, no students walk to Clifton Elementary School due to safety concerns. There is a lack of safe paths or sidewalks to the school.

[NOTE: There isn't a lack of 'safe' paths or sidewalks - there aren't ANY AT ALL - SO? Kids have been bused to this and other schools for decades. It's a problem why? And, yes, School Board, you are welcome, since the 'no sidewalks' is a part of residential conservation zoning, protecting the entire County's drinking water in the Occoquan Reservoir Watershed]

Renovation and the Educational Specifications
When FTS begins the planning of a renovation, there are a few key factors which dictate the amount of space to be added in order to fulfill the requirements of the educational specifications.

The primary consideration is determining the number of core classrooms needed to accommodate current or future enrollments. In the case of Clifton, the five year projection is nearly 400 students, which would necessitate two additional classrooms.

[NOTE: JUST TO BE CLEAR - read the above statement again. July 2009 FCPS document]

http://www.fcps.edu/news/documents/Finalstaffreport.pdf

FINAL STAFF REPORT
May 3, 2010

The latest projections by the Facilities Planning Services Office reflect the historic trend and show a continuing, slow decrease in enrollment to a projected total of 298 at Clifton Elementary School by September 2015 (school year 2015-16).

[NOTE: A scant NINE MONTHS later, send out an Amber alert - Clifton has LOST OVER 100 STUDENTS!!! A 25% decline in projected enrollment! A statistical impossibility...unless you are a corrupt group bent on getting your way - then you can make the numbers anything you want and ignore all best management practices, all alternatives, even offers of federal aid - 'it costs too much to take federal aid' - swear, they said that!!!]

WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION OF THE FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD - NOW - BEFORE THEY DO MORE HARM TO OUR COUNTY!
Attachments:

We do seem to eat well in Clifton...
Attachments:

Tax Smart, Not More Copycat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION OF THE FAIRFAX COUNTY
> SCHOOL BOARD - NOW - BEFORE THEY DO MORE HARM TO
> OUR COUNTY!

Everything you posted supports the closure, declining enrollment, transportation difficulties, no sidewalks.

+2

Dang, those folks are ginormous. Maybe all the people who reportedly were crying after the Board voted to close Clifton were just sweating instead.

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tax Smart, Not More Copycat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION OF THE FAIRFAX COUNTY
> > SCHOOL BOARD - NOW - BEFORE THEY DO MORE HARM
> TO
> > OUR COUNTY!
>
> Everything you posted supports the closure,
> declining enrollment, transportation difficulties,
> no sidewalks.


You may need to go back to school, as you clearly have problems with reading comprehension.

The projected enrollment for Clifton done by FCPS one year ago, June 2009, shows Clifton OVER CAPACITY by 22 students. (try to stay with me now)

Then just one year later, June 2010, the FCPS Staff has projected Clifton to be under enrolled so severely it warrants CLOSING the school?? Just where DID those children go?

I'll tell you where. (and no, the Bunnyman didn't get them) They were conveniently left out of the projected enrollment that was completed in 2010. When you leave out 22030, and 22039 from the projection, and it just so happens that those two areas have the highest student density areas in Clifton, of course the enrollment is going to drop significantly. You can't exclude two major areas of your student population and expect accurate figures. But if you're Dean Tisdadt and crew, and want to support closing a school, well then I guess it's easy to enough to forget that Clifton Elementary serves more than one zip code.

No......the FCPS Staff and School Board didn't manipulate the figures at all to suit their purpose. They would NEVER do that!!!

Sounds like they "accidentally" redistricted those 2 zip codes already!

I don't get how UVA comes up with their student enrollment projections for 2014-15.

If you look at strictly birth rates for both Fairfax County and Fairfax City combined-residence-not place of birth (ie some FC moms might use a DC hospital) you get the following:

2004 15,462
2005 15,251
2006 15,015
2007 15,665
2008 15,741

I don't see this trend ending up with thousands of new students over say the next 5 years. Throw in possible Arizona immigration tactics, and it definitely will go down or certainly level off.

How do they justify the membership increases or is it just a shell game to get more tax dollars?

Dane Bramaged (which you are) and Edukated:

So calling me to the carpet on what I have done for the taxpayers, families and children of our County and Commonwealth is how you defend the reprehensible behavior of the School Board? Sound like you are Class A bullies.
This isn't about me - it's about the people who WANTED the responsibility of representing their constituents and then failed miserably to uphold their public duty.

If it makes you feel better or gives some validity you need with trepidation I'll respond - do you have an open enough mind to allow yourself to be swayed by the evidence seek if you get it?
I have probably logged thousands of hours volunteering and advocating for children in schools, sports, fundraising, hospitals, charities and with special requirements - in groups and individually. I can't begin to caluculate the money I have raised for special needs families, accident victims, tragically ill children, schools, youth organizations...and that doesn't begin to address significant efforts over decades in political and community service, including some substantial elected politicians.

Again - you made this about me to what end? Challenge the validity of the argument against the School Board's vindictive bent against Clifton led by the curiously hatefilled Liz Bradsher. Never have I seen such repulsive and self-serving behavior - although her largely atrocious colleagues on the Board deserve a tie for second place. I have much to compare against and nothing to gain - what I strive for is a better Fairfax County today and in the future.

Hardly your intent.

Factchecker Wrote:

> Why is it hilarious - it's just historical
> enrollment data posted on FCPS's web site. It
> shows that year-end enrollment at Clifton was down
> 7.8% in June 2010 compared to June 2000.
> Actually, the enrollment peaked in 2003-04 and has
> since declined 10.9%.
>
> Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP
> projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by
> 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the methodologies
> for its projections every other day.

Factchecker, could you tell me where exactly on the FCPS web-site you got the enrollment data? I used the School Profile page, and pulled up the reports on ethnic/gender demographic data for the past 10 years. The reports are dated "September" and therefore may be based on the enrollment numbers from the previous June. According to this info:

Report dated Sept. 2000: total enrollment in CES was 370.
Report dated Sept. 2009: total enrollment 366.

Total decline from 2000 - 2009: 4 kids, or 1%. As you correctly point out, the peak enrollment is listed as 405 in September, 2003. However, numbers bounce around quite a bit in a decade; enrollment increased by 24 kids from Sept. 2000 to Sept. 2001, decreased by 13 the next year, and increased again by 14 the next.

Projections using recent home sales, births in area hospitals, etc, etc, are obviously more helpful for future planning purposes. However, since the FCPS projections used to justify closing Clifton did NOT include the populations from two of the zip codes in the CES boundary...

we obviously cannot say with confidence that the enrollment in Clifton will decline significantly over the next five years (if at all). Without including all the areas served by the school, they might as well have used a magic 8 ball.

Speaking of enrollments, is Silverbrook a feeder into South County Secondary/soon to be Middle School? Anybody know?

According to FCPS data, Silverbrook shows declining enrollments. If it is a feeder into South County Middle, than how did they justify building a new middle school?

From another thread:

In the 2007 Bond Referendum that listed the Clifton Renovation Planning money, there was also an item for a $50 million bus facility renovation. It was noted that this money was not counted against the CIP budget, but it is appalling to think that Fairfax County values the space in which we repair buses more than the space in which we educate our children. This bus facility has had 3 additions made to it since it was built in 1964. How can FCPS and Fairfax County find the money to fund this kind of project, but is absolutely unwilling to consider renovating a top rated, proven success story like Clifton ES?

The renovations include adding a whopping 4 bus bays and enlarging the size of existing bays to make the space "more efficient for the mechanics". This project really deserves $50 million??!?!

Another example of where the children of Fairfax County really rank in the list of priorities when it comes to spending money.

Factchecker:

While you are checking fake facts and LYAO just BEWARE...YOU could be next!
Mommies & Daddies - tuck your kiddies away...she's on the prowl...the boundary study is C-O-M-I-N-G!
Attachments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK4WibtUJNw

Think Clifton may have a new anthem...
too good.

A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery Inside an Enigma

So...
IF all the data available was analyzed and presented by "Staff" - Tistadt - to the Board in his most illustrative Final Staff Report, dated May 3, 2010 so they could make an 'informed decision"...
http://www.fcps.edu/news/documents/Finalstaffreport.pdf

Why...
Is the SRPS Final Planning Study Report on Clifton completed a week later, May 10, 2010?
http://www.fcps.edu/news/documents/SouthwesternRegionalPlanningStudy-SubcommitteeReports.pdf

The absurdity of the "declining enrollment" mantra extolled by the SB is unravelling at every turn.

How peculiar...yet another set of numbers.
FCPS Southwestern Regional Planning Study Committee
Clifton Subcommittee Supplement to
Committee Phase II Executive Summary of 5/10/10
Attachments:

Especially Interested Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cry-baby Board Chair Kathy Smith has written a
> letter to the Connection newspaper, in response to
> an article noting how angry people are about
> closing Clifton, stating that she and the other
> school board members are there to serve the
> interests of everyone in the county, not the
> "special interests.
>
> So that's what it's come down to: if you're a
> parent who doesn't agree with an idiotic decision
> that directly affects your own children, you're
> apparently part of a "special interest group."
> Did she really think we wouldn't understand who
> she had in mind?
>
> Let's hope Smith and her high-minded colleagues
> get their come-uppance in 2011 and are sent
> packing.


So the School Board trying to spend $130M on an Admin building for themselves and $50 million for a bus garage doesn't reflect a special interest? Let's get real. They would rather spend the money ON THEMSELVES than spend nothing at all or $7 million on students (Clifton Elementary). Even just putting Clifton aside, they have established a pattern of showing where there special interests are. They decided to close Pimmit Hills School which was serving needy students (who were also able to go to work across the street at Tysons Corner) and use it for bus driver training! Where is the special interest again? As fas as special interest goes, Kathy Smith had everything to gain by closing Clifton (not in her district) and nothing to lose. Now she will try and justify putting additions on schools that ARE in her district which, by their own admission, is going to cost taxpayers MORE than it would have cost regarding Clifton. Now who again has got a special interest? She can take her special interest argument about Clifton and shove it where the sun doesn't shine! The numbers and track record of the Board speak for themselves and show they are the ones with their own special interests at heart.

What?? wrote:

So the School Board trying to spend $130M on an Admin building for themselves and $50 million for a bus garage doesn't reflect a special interest? Let's get real. They would rather spend the money ON THEMSELVES than spend nothing at all or $7 million on students (Clifton Elementary). Even just putting Clifton aside, they have established a pattern of showing where there special interests are. They decided to close Pimmit Hills School which was serving needy students (who were also able to go to work across the street at Tysons Corner) and use it for bus driver training! Where is the special interest again? As fas as special interest goes, Kathy Smith had everything to gain by closing Clifton (not in her district) and nothing to lose. Now she will try and justify putting additions on schools that ARE in her district which, by their own admission, is going to cost taxpayers MORE than it would have cost regarding Clifton. Now who again has got a special interest? She can take her special interest argument about Clifton and shove it where the sun doesn't shine! The numbers and track record of the Board speak for themselves and show they are the ones with their own special interests at heart.




Amen! Who is this lady---Marie "let them eat cake" Antoinette? I smell a revolution! The queen must go (along with her lady-in-waiting Liz).

What?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Especially Interested Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cry-baby Board Chair Kathy Smith has written a
> > letter to the Connection newspaper, in response
> to
> > an article noting how angry people are about
> > closing Clifton, stating that she and the other
>
> > school board members are there to serve the
> > interests of everyone in the county, not the
> > "special interests.
> >
> > So that's what it's come down to: if you're a
> > parent who doesn't agree with an idiotic
> decision
> > that directly affects your own children, you're
>
> > apparently part of a "special interest group."
> > Did she really think we wouldn't understand who
>
> > she had in mind?
> >
> > Let's hope Smith and her high-minded colleagues
>
> > get their come-uppance in 2011 and are sent
> > packing.
>
>
> So the School Board trying to spend $130M on an
> Admin building for themselves and $50 million for
> a bus garage doesn't reflect a special interest?
> Let's get real. They would rather spend the money
> ON THEMSELVES than spend nothing at all or $7
> million on students (Clifton Elementary). Even
> just putting Clifton aside, they have established
> a pattern of showing where there special interests
> are. They decided to close Pimmit Hills School
> which was serving needy students (who were also
> able to go to work across the street at Tysons
> Corner) and use it for bus driver training! Where
> is the special interest again? As fas as special
> interest goes, Kathy Smith had everything to gain
> by closing Clifton (not in her district) and
> nothing to lose. Now she will try and justify
> putting additions on schools that ARE in her
> district which, by their own admission, is going
> to cost taxpayers MORE than it would have cost
> regarding Clifton. Now who again has got a special
> interest? She can take her special interest
> argument about Clifton and shove it where the sun
> doesn't shine! The numbers and track record of the
> Board speak for themselves and show they are the
> ones with their own special interests at heart.


You forgot about the latest -- the "Priority Schools Initiative" aka "Special Interest Schools Intitiative" where they are going to try and take money from the retirement fund in order to pay for training for the Principals and give money to the schools that fit their special interests. Disgusting.

You should go over to City-Data - someone looked at the staff study for this program. Apart from the fact that it's inconsistent with the statement by FCPS that it never ranks FCPS schools, the study found that Clifton ES was one of the schools least in need of special help! So why close it??!!

Because they have to "use" those students to bolster scores at other schools. Divide and conquer.

Thread Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From another thread:
>
> In the 2007 Bond Referendum that listed the
> Clifton Renovation Planning money, there was also
> an item for a $50 million bus facility renovation.
> It was noted that this money was not counted
> against the CIP budget, but it is appalling to
> think that Fairfax County values the space in
> which we repair buses more than the space in which
> we educate our children. This bus facility has had
> 3 additions made to it since it was built in 1964.
> How can FCPS and Fairfax County find the money to
> fund this kind of project, but is absolutely
> unwilling to consider renovating a top rated,
> proven success story like Clifton ES?
>
> The renovations include adding a whopping 4 bus
> bays and enlarging the size of existing bays to
> make the space "more efficient for the mechanics".
> This project really deserves $50 million??!?!
>
> Another example of where the children of Fairfax
> County really rank in the list of priorities when
> it comes to spending money.


Newington Garage is a lot more than a bus facility. They also repair and maintain fire engines, police cars, trash trucks, park maintenance vehicles, and other county cars.

The County was a lot smaller in 1964, there were less than 500 school buses compared to 1500+ now. Police and Fire Depts are much larger now.

Maybe they should just close the place and send those 7 or 8000 vehicles to a gas station for repair. That would save tons of money!

easy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because they have to "use" those students to
> bolster scores at other schools. Divide and
> conquer.


Silverbrook Elementary failed AYP. The other curious thing as noted in an earlier thread is it looks like Silverbrook might be a feeder into South County Middle School. Why did they need to build a Middle School (and bump it ahead of everybody else) when one of the feeders has declining enrollment?

wrench Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thread Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From another thread:
> >
> > In the 2007 Bond Referendum that listed the
> > Clifton Renovation Planning money, there was
> also
> > an item for a $50 million bus facility
> renovation.
> > It was noted that this money was not counted
> > against the CIP budget, but it is appalling to
> > think that Fairfax County values the space in
> > which we repair buses more than the space in
> which
> > we educate our children. This bus facility has
> had
> > 3 additions made to it since it was built in
> 1964.
> > How can FCPS and Fairfax County find the money
> to
> > fund this kind of project, but is absolutely
> > unwilling to consider renovating a top rated,
> > proven success story like Clifton ES?
> >
> > The renovations include adding a whopping 4 bus
> > bays and enlarging the size of existing bays to
> > make the space "more efficient for the
> mechanics".
> > This project really deserves $50 million??!?!
> >
> > Another example of where the children of
> Fairfax
> > County really rank in the list of priorities
> when
> > it comes to spending money.
>
>
> Newington Garage is a lot more than a bus
> facility. They also repair and maintain fire
> engines, police cars, trash trucks, park
> maintenance vehicles, and other county cars.
>
> The County was a lot smaller in 1964, there were
> less than 500 school buses compared to 1500+ now.
> Police and Fire Depts are much larger now.
>
> Maybe they should just close the place and send
> those 7 or 8000 vehicles to a gas station for
> repair. That would save tons of money!

Good point. Outsource.

So $8M in contingency last year - not spent
So $8M in contingency this year - budgeted

Seems like a REALLY GOOD USE OF CONTINGENCY FUNDS is, oh, I don't know...
SAVING a school?! Nothing could be more important - saving it for a rainy day? Look outside people, it's F***IN POURING!!!

Board - if you are in it for the kids, then SHOW US THE MONEY!!!!

If you are in it for you own sick devious purposes, by all means continue to work as hard as you possibly can to shut down schools - your actions speak louder than words.
Attachments:

Who wants to play the Fairfax County School Board's new 'Declining Enrollment' game show? The "Wheel of Enrollment" - tkk tkk tkk tkk tkk tkk

What do you know! ***** 298 *****
Attachments:

Excellent points from another thread.


BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Actually, they're wrong. Sorry, but facts are
facts.

> > The debate about Clifton came down to whether
> to
> > renovate the aging school for $11.9 million or
> to
> > build a new, larger school for $18.7 million.
> Part
> > of the decision to close the school was based
> on
> > the predicted decline in enrollment at Clifton,
> > the school system's smallest school.
>
This doesn't make any sense, considering there
were more options on the table than simply
renovating the aging school at the $11.9 million
level or building another school. There were three
different renovation levels available, the lowest
being in the $7 million range.
>
The predicted decline in enrollment at Clifton is
a distinct turn around from last years predicted
increase in enrollment at Clifton that had the
school being overenrolled by 22 students in 2013.
Why did this change so abruptly in one year?
>
> > An elementary school cannot be maintained
> without
> > money. This was one of the lessons that came
> out
> > of a recent Fairfax County School Board
> meeting,
> > where members voted 9-2-1 to close Clifton
> > Elementary School.
>
Money does not seem to be the issue here. If it
is, then, as I and many, many others have noted,
there were ways to reduce the cost of the
renovation that were ignored by the Board in this
latest vote.
>
> > Ten days after the July 8 vote to shutter the
> > 57-year-old school, School Board members and
> > parents reflected on what brought them to this
> > point.
> >
> > "I don't know that the School Board learned any
> > lessons, but I would suggest that the public
> > learned a little about our ; that we are
> woefully
> > underfunded," said School Board member James
> Raney
> > (At-large). "And when you are underfunded, you
> > have to make really difficult decisions like
> > closing Clifton."
>
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I
have ever seen, and it plays directly into the
on-going perception that the School Board is
woefully out of touch with reality. The School
System has hundreds of millions of dollars to
spend on new administration buildings, widening
the mechanic's bay for bus maintenance, and other
non-student related costs but cannot scrape
together a few million dollars for a school
renovation? Really?

The school system represents the bulk of the
Fairfax County Budget - $2.2 billion dollars.
That's more than the entire operating
budgets from most of the counties in Virginia.

We're in a recession. If the money isn't there for
the renovation, don't do the renovation. But
there's no good reason to close the school down
unless it is unsafe, and that argument has not
been made.
>
> > The school sits on the crest of a large hill
> > overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its
> > site cannot be developed. Staff said it would
> also
> > be difficult to fit a staging area for a
> > construction team on Clifton’s site, and the
> > school’s renovation would necessitate the loss
> of
> > trees and the leveling of a small hill at the
> back
> > of the building.
>
Then how was it renovated in 1984? Trees can be
replaced. I have never yet seen a general
contractor claim that a job was impossible because
they couldn't get equipment onto the site. That's
not the FCPS's staff job to determine - that's an
issue for the contractors who are doing the work
to determine. You pay them to solve those kinds of
problems for you.
>
> > The school is not on a normal sewage or water
> > system, which also drives up construction and
> > ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is
> the
> > only Fairfax school that uses well water, which
> > not only complicates the installation of
> > sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking
> > water quality issues since the 1990s, said
> staff.
>
Are these the same water quality issues that were
resolved at the 11th hour during the meeting? I
have not seen the argument made that the school
was exorbitantly more difficult to maintain than
other schools in the area. I'm sure it does cost
more, but then any historic building is going to
cost more to maintain. But the value to the
community of maintaining the historic building
tends to outweigh simple maintenance cost
measurements.
>
> > The school system has estimated that the cost
> > closing Clifton, building a new school on the
> > Liberty campus and constructing additions at
> other
> > schools to be approximately $17.2 million
> overall.
> > To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with
> capacity
> > issues in western Fairfax would cost more,
> > approximately $21.5 million, according to a
> > presentation given to the School Board June 10.
>
The Liberty campus has significant asbestos issues
that are well documented. Building a new school on
the site would necessitate the closing of Liberty
Middle School or else the school system will be
inundated with asbestos related lawsuits. Have
those potential liabilities been included in the
that $17.2 million figure? I doubt it.

And, again, there were other options at lower
prices than a "full" renovation - which the
parents and students did not feel was necessary.
>
> > Clifton residents said they would be happy with
> a
> > scaled-back renovation plan, where not much
> more
> > than the mechanical system would be replaced and
> a
> > sprinkler system would be installed.
> >
> > But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton
> > open, school staff has advised that it proceed
> > with a full-scale renovation, since several
> > features of Clifton’s current building are
> > outdated.
>
So what? This is one of the top performing schools
in the County and in the Commonwealth. Why is the
school staff's opinion more important than the
opinion of the people who they are serving?

If this whole issue turns on teachers wanting a
more comfortable building to work in, that's just
nonsense. We're in a recession. Sacrifices have to
be made. And they should start with the comfort of
staff, not a major interference in the lives of
the parents and students and the disruption of an
entire community.
>
> > AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation,
> Clifton’s
> > renovation costs would still be relatively high
> on
> > a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the
> > small schools in the county.
>
> > The average elementary school in Fairfax houses
> > approximately 675 students and Clifton’s
> building
> > can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using
> > housing data and local birth rate information,
> the
> > school system has also projected that Clifton’s
> > student body would decline to fewer than 300
> > students over the next four to five years.
>
Why be concerned with the small size of the
building if the claim is that the school is facing
decreasing enrollment?

Clifton is a community school. It serves a unique
and specific community. That the community is
small is not the community's fault - it was zoned
that way. Ignoring the entire point of Clifton and
it's place in the overall fabric of Fairfax County
is a convenient way of justifying a decision that
has already been made.

And, again, these enrollment projections are
extremely inaccurate. I wouldn't base any major
policy decision off of them.
>
> > "The overhead for an elementary school with 300
> > students is not dissimilar to the overhead of
> an
> > elementary school with 600 students. You still
> > need to have a principal, an assistant
> principal,
> > a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.
> >
> > From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an
> > average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled
> water
> > to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well
> > water unsafe to drink, according to a report by
> a
> > citizen advisory committee.
>
I'm not going to get into a discussion of
overhead. Needless to say, those issues are
debatable, regardless of Tistadt's opinion. That's
the School Board's job.

And, oddly enough, there were offers from the
community to cover the water costs which were
rebuffed.
>
> > If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a
> > school well fails, the school system could end
> up
> > spending approximately $300,000 to fix
> Clifton’s
> > water quality issues. FCPS would then have to
> > spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep
> and
> > monitoring of the well system, according to a
> > citizen advisory report.
>

If. Could. Would. These are all speculative.


> > "It comes down to the fact that change is
> hard,"
> > said School Board Chairwoman Kathy Smith (Sully
> > District). "The bottom line is it doesn't
> matter
> > how much information you have out there, how
> much
> > you engage the community -- people don't like
> > change. I don't know what more we could have
> > done."
>
You could have started by waiting until the
Southwest Boundary study was completed. Then you
could have worked with the community to come up
with a compromise solution that would have
rectified the staff's concerns but kept the school
open. Change is hard, and unnecessary change is
the hardest.
>
> > In studying regional issues facing schools in
> > southwestern Fairfax County, the School Board
> > created a panel of mostly PTA parents from
> > affected schools. The panel submitted its
> findings
> > to the School Board in April.
> >
> > Future planning for about 30 other existing
> > elementary schools was paused to see how the
> board
> > would vote on Clifton Elementary. Now the
> school
> > system moves forward with the southwestern
> > boundary study, which will begin this coming
> fall
> > and, when completed, should hold a closure date
> > for Clifton.
> >
> > Fiscal responsibility isn't easy and often
> makes
> > affected folks unhappy; however, it still needs
> to
> > be done.
>
It's hypocritical for a school system that spends
so many millions on unnecessary things to start
lecturing anyone on Fiscal Responsibility. When
the Superintendent starts proposing cutting
popular programs and dumping massive fee increases
on families to extort more money from the BOS for
the school budget, no one is talking about fiscal
responsibility.

What's not responsible is making a decision in
private and then trying to feed it to the
taxpayers who make possible the school system in
the first place. What is not responsible is a
School Board that places the needs of the staff
before the needs of the student. What is not
responsible are School Board members who sell out
their constituents because they don't remember who
they work for.

Those facts are going to be pretty important next
November.

from a previous post:

These are the schools out of that study (the Southwest boundary study) that have problems:

Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2009-2010.
London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010
Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010 but failed AYP the two prior years.
Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in 2009-2010.



Centre Ridge actually failed to make AYP in 2009-10. Centreville Elementary also failed to make AYP in 2009-10. I'm not saying this is a problem in reality---but given that perception matters because people don't know the underlying truths about anything, moving the Clifton students could help with perception.

ammending Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> from a previous post:
>
> These are the schools out of that study (the
> Southwest boundary study) that have problems:
>
> Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> 2009-2010.
> London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009
> and 2009-2010
> Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010
> but failed AYP the two prior years.
> Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in
> 2009-2010.
>
>
>
> Centre Ridge actually failed to make AYP in
> 2009-10. Centreville Elementary also failed to
> make AYP in 2009-10. I'm not saying this is a
> problem in reality---but given that perception
> matters because people don't know the underlying
> truths about anything, moving the Clifton students
> could help with perception.

Failing to make AYP for a year or two is not necessarily such a BFD.

If the Clifton crowd wants to get broader support, it would be well served to dispense with the argument that closing the school was all about moving their darlings to lower performing schools where they could boost the test scores.

Decided:
You are decidedly a jerk...
What is with the 'darlings' comment. They are our kids, you ass.
Yeah, it's called "PARENTING" - we have been torn to shreds - personally by Liz Bradsher on some wild vendetta against Clifton and as an ENTIRE COMMUNITY by nine (really 7) people who make less than a server gets as a tip v. Emperor Dale's salary...and altogether a tip equivalent of what the Emperor gets in his total comp package.
That's right - these 'politicians' who should be focusing on educating our children spent a year figuring out how to craft the numbers to support their hellbent desire to shut our 'darling's' school - they earn less than 10% of what Dale pulls down in salary alone...this wasn't about 'doing it for the kids' - they have THREE AND A HALF BILLION DOLLARS, dipwad. A school board mission to shut a school that will cost, at most, between $6M-$11m to renovate - they were already due, so where's the money we voted for in the Bond Referendum? - amounts to selling your house because you can't find .72 in the sofa.
It's a pissant amt of $ compared to what they have at their disposal - and, yeah, failing the AYP is a big deal. That's why they measure it.
Going to go play ball with our 'darlings' - take your reverse prejudice and shove it, pal.

Decided Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ammending Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > from a previous post:
> >
> > These are the schools out of that study (the
> > Southwest boundary study) that have problems:
> >
> > Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> > 2009-2010.
> > London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> 2008-2009
> > and 2009-2010
> > Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in
> 2009-2010
> > but failed AYP the two prior years.
> > Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP
> in
> > 2009-2010.
> >
> >
> >
> > Centre Ridge actually failed to make AYP in
> > 2009-10. Centreville Elementary also failed to
> > make AYP in 2009-10. I'm not saying this is a
> > problem in reality---but given that perception
> > matters because people don't know the
> underlying
> > truths about anything, moving the Clifton
> students
> > could help with perception.
>
> Failing to make AYP for a year or two is not
> necessarily such a BFD.
>

Tell that to the US Department of Education. Since the AYP was created for greater accountability, they probably have a differing opinion.

Agree with you 100%---its no BFD. But I'm not sure the SB, the state and the feds think it's no BFD. Those statistics are reported and publicly posted. Some people actually believe those statistics mean something. They are spending a LOT of money generating those statistics.

ammending Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree with you 100%---its no BFD. But I'm not
> sure the SB, the state and the feds think it's no
> BFD. Those statistics are reported and publicly
> posted. Some people actually believe those
> statistics mean something. They are spending a
> LOT of money generating those statistics.

This is in th NCLB rules regarding sanctions.

If a school fails to make AYP for 4 consecutive years, by the end of the second full school year after identification the district must—
identify the school for corrective action; and
take at least one of the following actions:
o replace school staff relevant to the failure;
o restructure internal organization of the school.
Etc.

Considering the over use of VGLA testing in place of SOLs, if a school is not passing AYP right now, it is probably not a very good sign.

See this article "Fairfax Public Schools Cheat On Test Scores"

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Fairfax-public-schools-officials-cheat-on-test-scores-8274810-60043947.html

So much inspiration - someone must have taken below and run with it. Got above forwarded.
Listen - HILARIOUS!!! Don't know how they got that many clips into one message, but the BEST 2 minutes I've heard!

http://rednova8.com/wordpress/?p=2594#comments

http://www.novacommonsense.com/2010/07/21/more-bradsher-ill-cripple-you-at-the-knees/comment-page-1/#comment-1329

http://www.city-data.com/forum/northern-virginia/1032596-closing-clifton-es-6.html

http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2010/07/south-county-bitch-strikes-again.html

http://rednova8.com/wordpress/?p=2586

http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2010/07/south-county-bitch-threatens-another-fairfax-activist.html

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Fairfax_Co__School_Board_Votes_To_Close_Clifton_Elementary-98102624.html
Attachments:

Decided??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Decided:
> You are decidedly a jerk...
> What is with the 'darlings' comment. They are our
> kids, you ass.
> Yeah, it's called "PARENTING" - we have been torn
> to shreds - personally by Liz Bradsher on some
> wild vendetta against Clifton and as an ENTIRE
> COMMUNITY by nine (really 7) people who make less
> than a server gets as a tip v. Emperor Dale's
> salary...and altogether a tip equivalent of what
> the Emperor gets in his total comp package.
> That's right - these 'politicians' who should be
> focusing on educating our children spent a year
> figuring out how to craft the numbers to support
> their hellbent desire to shut our 'darling's'
> school - they earn less than 10% of what Dale
> pulls down in salary alone...this wasn't about
> 'doing it for the kids' - they have THREE AND A
> HALF BILLION DOLLARS, dipwad. A school board
> mission to shut a school that will cost, at most,
> between $6M-$11m to renovate - they were already
> due, so where's the money we voted for in the Bond
> Referendum? - amounts to selling your house
> because you can't find .72 in the sofa.
> It's a pissant amt of $ compared to what they have
> at their disposal - and, yeah, failing the AYP is
> a big deal. That's why they measure it.
> Going to go play ball with our 'darlings' - take
> your reverse prejudice and shove it, pal.


I just love these posts. When a specific issue comes up in the county, the community that's affected wants the entire county to come to their side of the issue. Same thing happened during the south lakes/chantilly/westfield redistricting. Bottom line, the only people that care about Clifton ES staying open are the parents of the kids who go there. The rest of the county will decide based on facts if they agree or disagree. If you want support from people outside your community, you need to stop telling us how great Clifton is and how the rest of the county sucks.

Decided??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Decided:
> You are decidedly a jerk...
> What is with the 'darlings' comment. They are our
> kids, you ass.
> Yeah, it's called "PARENTING" - we have been torn
> to shreds - personally by Liz Bradsher on some
> wild vendetta against Clifton and as an ENTIRE
> COMMUNITY by nine (really 7) people who make less
> than a server gets as a tip v. Emperor Dale's
> salary...and altogether a tip equivalent of what
> the Emperor gets in his total comp package.
> That's right - these 'politicians' who should be
> focusing on educating our children spent a year
> figuring out how to craft the numbers to support
> their hellbent desire to shut our 'darling's'
> school - they earn less than 10% of what Dale
> pulls down in salary alone...this wasn't about
> 'doing it for the kids' - they have THREE AND A
> HALF BILLION DOLLARS, dipwad. A school board
> mission to shut a school that will cost, at most,
> between $6M-$11m to renovate - they were already
> due, so where's the money we voted for in the Bond
> Referendum? - amounts to selling your house
> because you can't find .72 in the sofa.
> It's a pissant amt of $ compared to what they have
> at their disposal - and, yeah, failing the AYP is
> a big deal. That's why they measure it.
> Going to go play ball with our 'darlings' - take
> your reverse prejudice and shove it, pal.

So many of you are so angry that you're striking out rather blindly. You assume that everyone shares your outrage and that we'll agree with you when you suggest your school was shut down to improve test scores at other area schools. If that's your tactic, you'll fail miserably, silly cartoon caricatures aside.

Hate to tell you, but most people in the county don't know where Clifton is or care if the county shuts down a school with declining enrollment.

Sounds like playing ball with your darlings and preaching to your own choir are the only things you know how to do.

hsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Decided??? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Decided:
> > You are decidedly a jerk...
> > What is with the 'darlings' comment. They are
> our
> > kids, you ass.
> > Yeah, it's called "PARENTING" - we have been
> torn
> > to shreds - personally by Liz Bradsher on some
> > wild vendetta against Clifton and as an ENTIRE
> > COMMUNITY by nine (really 7) people who make
> less
> > than a server gets as a tip v. Emperor Dale's
> > salary...and altogether a tip equivalent of
> what
> > the Emperor gets in his total comp package.
> > That's right - these 'politicians' who should
> be
> > focusing on educating our children spent a year
> > figuring out how to craft the numbers to
> support
> > their hellbent desire to shut our 'darling's'
> > school - they earn less than 10% of what Dale
> > pulls down in salary alone...this wasn't about
> > 'doing it for the kids' - they have THREE AND A
> > HALF BILLION DOLLARS, dipwad. A school board
> > mission to shut a school that will cost, at
> most,
> > between $6M-$11m to renovate - they were
> already
> > due, so where's the money we voted for in the
> Bond
> > Referendum? - amounts to selling your house
> > because you can't find .72 in the sofa.
> > It's a pissant amt of $ compared to what they
> have
> > at their disposal - and, yeah, failing the AYP
> is
> > a big deal. That's why they measure it.
> > Going to go play ball with our 'darlings' -
> take
> > your reverse prejudice and shove it, pal.
>
>
> I just love these posts. When a specific issue
> comes up in the county, the community that's
> affected wants the entire county to come to their
> side of the issue. Same thing happened during the
> south lakes/chantilly/westfield redistricting.
> Bottom line, the only people that care about
> Clifton ES staying open are the parents of the
> kids who go there. The rest of the county will
> decide based on facts if they agree or disagree.
> If you want support from people outside your
> community, you need to stop telling us how great
> Clifton is and how the rest of the county sucks.


You are quite naive hsparent. What you support and do not support is completely irrelevant. The Board already knows exactly what it is going to do and does it anyway.

Decided Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Decided??? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Decided:
> > You are decidedly a jerk...
> > What is with the 'darlings' comment. They are
> our
> > kids, you ass.
> > Yeah, it's called "PARENTING" - we have been
> torn
> > to shreds - personally by Liz Bradsher on some
> > wild vendetta against Clifton and as an ENTIRE
> > COMMUNITY by nine (really 7) people who make
> less
> > than a server gets as a tip v. Emperor Dale's
> > salary...and altogether a tip equivalent of
> what
> > the Emperor gets in his total comp package.
> > That's right - these 'politicians' who should
> be
> > focusing on educating our children spent a year
> > figuring out how to craft the numbers to
> support
> > their hellbent desire to shut our 'darling's'
> > school - they earn less than 10% of what Dale
> > pulls down in salary alone...this wasn't about
> > 'doing it for the kids' - they have THREE AND A
> > HALF BILLION DOLLARS, dipwad. A school board
> > mission to shut a school that will cost, at
> most,
> > between $6M-$11m to renovate - they were
> already
> > due, so where's the money we voted for in the
> Bond
> > Referendum? - amounts to selling your house
> > because you can't find .72 in the sofa.
> > It's a pissant amt of $ compared to what they
> have
> > at their disposal - and, yeah, failing the AYP
> is
> > a big deal. That's why they measure it.
> > Going to go play ball with our 'darlings' -
> take
> > your reverse prejudice and shove it, pal.
>
> So many of you are so angry that you're striking
> out rather blindly. You assume that everyone
> shares your outrage and that we'll agree with you
> when you suggest your school was shut down to
> improve test scores at other area schools. If
> that's your tactic, you'll fail miserably, silly
> cartoon caricatures aside.
>
> Hate to tell you, but most people in the county
> don't know where Clifton is or care if the county
> shuts down a school with declining enrollment.
>
> Sounds like playing ball with your darlings and
> preaching to your own choir are the only things
> you know how to do.


Why then, Decided, are you still reading this? Just go away.

SayWHAT?
OK - LMFAO!!! That Ode to Lizzie B is MONEY!

Hey - hsparent:
WHERE did I ever tell you or anyone "how the rest of the county sucks"?!
I didn't say jack about it lady - why don't you FCPSrs get off this post and quit trolling & extolling the virtues of FCPS. No one's not buying it.
And we have plenty of support around the County. Do you READ a paper? How many articles do you need to hear the SB completely FUBAR'd this one (among others)?

Now, shut up or I'll sick Liz Bradsher on you - can't wait 'til she cusses out your little 'darling' or calls you at home on a hormonal hatin' rage.
As the Ode says - 'go away or I will taunt you a second time'!

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why then, Decided, are you still reading this?
> Just go away.

This forum is no more a private chat line than Clifton ES is a private academy, and it pains me greatly to read the over-the-top babble of some Cliftonians. I have only so many tissues in my Kleenex box.

Decided Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Why then, Decided, are you still reading this?
> > Just go away.
>
> This forum is no more a private chat line than
> Clifton ES is a private academy, and it pains me
> greatly to read the over-the-top babble of some
> Cliftonians. I have only so many tissues in my
> Kleenex box.


Translation: "Decided" is a FCPS employee that is here to spread the FCPS propoganda and therefore cannot go away. Enough said.

Decided??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SayWHAT?
> OK - LMFAO!!! That Ode to Lizzie B is MONEY!
>
> Hey - hsparent:
> WHERE did I ever tell you or anyone "how the rest
> of the county sucks"?!
> I didn't say jack about it lady - why don't you
> FCPSrs get off this post and quit trolling &
> extolling the virtues of FCPS. No one's not buying
> it.
> And we have plenty of support around the County.
> Do you READ a paper? How many articles do you need
> to hear the SB completely FUBAR'd this one (among
> others)?
>
> Now, shut up or I'll sick Liz Bradsher on you -
> can't wait 'til she cusses out your little
> 'darling' or calls you at home on a hormonal
> hatin' rage.
> As the Ode says - 'go away or I will taunt you a
> second time'!

Yes, I read the newspapers and tearjerking interviews they've done with the Clifton parents. I've also read all the letters to the editor by outraged Clifton parents. I've yet to see an unbiased article by anyone (either side). I don't have a horse in this race, but I've dealt with the SB (and my side lost) on a previous redistricting issue. Face reality, crying parents and kids with posters make for a better story, but that doesn't mean they are right.
I've had my dealings with the school board (Kathy and Stu) so I'm not afraid of Liz.

CP Wrote:
>
> Translation: "Decided" is a FCPS employee that is
> here to spread the FCPS propoganda and therefore
> cannot go away. Enough said.

Reality: "CP" and his/her ilk are helicopter (or is it limousine) parents with a persecution complex who've found a way to turn potential allies into opponents.
We started off loving the story of the little red school house on the hill, and now we can't wait to see the firetrap shuttered for good.

This should not be an emotional issue.

Facts (or lack of facts) were laid out.

Questions were asked and answered (or not answered).

Confusion reigned.

SB voted anyway---in fact, seemed to be in a hurry to vote.

Liz Bradsher made a big boo boo.

If you think Clifton ES is a "firetrap", I've got a few more buildings to show you where FCPS puts students. How safe do you think those "trailers" are with one exit and totally vulnerable from all sides?? Every time there is high wind, those kids have to be brought into buildings (a real mess). And that's where these kids might end up---in trailers behind overcrowded schools. Real safe.

Decided Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CP Wrote:
> >
> > Translation: "Decided" is a FCPS employee that
> is
> > here to spread the FCPS propoganda and
> therefore
> > cannot go away. Enough said.
>
> Reality: "CP" and his/her ilk are helicopter (or
> is it limousine) parents with a persecution
> complex who've found a way to turn potential
> allies into opponents.
> We started off loving the story of the little red
> school house on the hill, and now we can't wait to
> see the firetrap shuttered for good.


Yah, you said that on July 20 and you are still here on this thread. Next.