To: imonlsd

I just pulled down the Final Staff Report to look at the numbers...the spreadsheet above isn't from Mathalicious, it is the same spreadsheet pasted into the Report by FCPS Staff.
Why are you saying these numbers are 'made up' when these are the budgets and projections generated by FCPS itself? It appears Mathalicious just copied and pasted Staff's document.

So exactly what is your problem with the numbers? The insults are coming through loud and clear, but where are your facts?

"For Clifton Elementary School the following options were provided:
1. Renovate the school at its current location and upgrade the facility to the extent possible.
2. Close the school and relocate the students to a new elementary school that could be built on the Liberty Middle School site. Under this scenario, it might be appropriate to consider moving some Clifton students from the eastern portion of that school’s attendance area to schools more proximate to their homes, i.e., Oak View, Fairview, or Sangster Elementary Schools. This option would not require changes to current middle and high school assignments."

So, if these were the two options provided by Staff to the Board, how is it that the Board did neither? No renovation. No Liberty School to move their students to...and leaving their community facing changes in middle school and high school assignments.

Read the Staff report top to bottom and there is no analysis to support this move. Basically, the Board went rogue even in the face of their own Staff's recommendations. #3 doesn't exist - Close Clifton and shove all the kids wherever.

Montgomery County is predicting an increase of nearly 5000 new students in K-5 by the year 2015.

The UVA study stated about 6500-7000 for FCPS.

Does anyone have a plan for these kids????

If we close Clifton and stick them in schools that are already at capacity, where exactly are these 7000 kids going to attend school?

Ideas, anyone?

Factchecker is absolutely correct: "It doesn't change the fact that the School Board believes the enrollment at Marshall is going to continue to increase."

The operative word - 'believes' - apparently the School Board merely needs to believe something to make it so. A la the tobacco industry executives testifying in front of Congress:
"I believe nicotine is not addictive", "I believe nicotine is not addictive", "I believe nicotine is not addictive" - ad naseum.

FCPS School Board:
"I believe the population is declining at Clifton Elementary", "I believe the population is declining at Clifton Elementary", "I believe the population is declining at Clifton Elementary".

There should be a NEW Zero Tolerance Policy - the taxpayers in Fairfax County need to adopt a Zero Tolerance Policy for School Board members who exhibit no transparency, no ethics and no integrity in their actions.

No Confidence Vote: Smith, Wilson, Gibson, Center, Storck, Strauss and Bradsher.

population increasing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Montgomery County is predicting an increase of
> nearly 5000 new students in K-5 by the year 2015.
>
> The UVA study stated about 6500-7000 for FCPS.
>
> Does anyone have a plan for these kids????
>
> If we close Clifton and stick them in schools that
> are already at capacity, where exactly are these
> 7000 kids going to attend school?
>
> Ideas, anyone?


The SB was presented with the study from UVA before they voted to close Clifton. They disregarded the report because it is "using a different methodology than the one employed by FCPS, and the UVA report considers different factors in that the County does not." Yeah, like all of the data instead of just the data to support your case against Clifton.

Once again the SB telling the general public that they know what's best. Forget the constituents, the experts, the state and federal agencies that supported keeping Clifton open, the many local elected officials that supported keeping Clifton open.... Forget all of them. The SB obviously knows what they are doing. They've done such a superb job of doing what's best for our children, and of course they are always looking out for the best interests of the taxpayers.

After all, as one Clifton parent was told by Ms. Bradsher, "All of the schools in Fairfax County are basically exactly the same. Your child will receive the exact same education no matter which school he attends."
Really???? So all those "Title I" schools don't really need all that extra funding because they are failing??? After all, if all schools in FFX Co. are exactly the same, why are some schools entitled to more funding than others???

MollyCorbin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker is absolutely correct: "It doesn't
> change the fact that the School Board believes the
> enrollment at Marshall is going to continue to
> increase."
>
> The operative word - 'believes' - apparently the
> School Board merely needs to believe something to
> make it so. A la the tobacco industry executives
> testifying in front of Congress:
> "I believe nicotine is not addictive", "I believe
> nicotine is not addictive", "I believe nicotine is
> not addictive" - ad naseum.
>
> FCPS School Board:
> "I believe the population is declining at Clifton
> Elementary", "I believe the population is
> declining at Clifton Elementary", "I believe the
> population is declining at Clifton Elementary".
>
> There should be a NEW Zero Tolerance Policy - the
> taxpayers in Fairfax County need to adopt a Zero
> Tolerance Policy for School Board members who
> exhibit no transparency, no ethics and no
> integrity in their actions.
>
> No Confidence Vote: Smith, Wilson, Gibson, Center,
> Storck, Strauss and Bradsher.

The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in Clifton's enrollment and a 21.6% increase in Marshall's enrollment. Of course, the more relevant consideration is what the future capacity needs will be at local schools. I don't think FCPS's enrollment projections have proven to be highly accurate, but neither do I think they are simply made-up numbers, as you seem to imply.

The whole discussion of the Board members' lemming behavior when it comes to another District is disconcerting. When the amendment to defer closing came to a vote, the at-large members voted for it - they are the only ones who represent the interests of the WHOLE county because the run for election across all districts. So, it seems the at-large members have the greatest sense of what the County needs.

So the at-large members did a better job representing Clifton in the bigger picture because they actually serve the bigger picture. The others just sucked up to one another for future (or past) favors. Nice.

The Work Session after the Hearing Tistadt said they didn't consider Mt. View - why would they - that would have been logical and wouldn't have let them of propose building at Liberty...just close enough to justify closing Clifton. But since they aren't building at Liberty - oops! it's all 'asbestos-y' - their plot was foiled. BUT WAIT - nope, they plunged right ahead and closed it anyway. No facts, no figures, no support.

Bad water - not really.
# students going down - not really.
Renovation costs too high - not really.

So - back to Dr. Raney's question as to what, exactly, is the answer as to why we are closing Clifton?

Kathy Smith's answer: It's "on the internet."
Genius, Ms. Smith, genius.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in Clifton's
> enrollment

What data are you basing that information on? What is the source of the data?

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole discussion of the Board members' lemming
> behavior when it comes to another District is
> disconcerting. When the amendment to defer closing
> came to a vote, the at-large members voted for it
> - they are the only ones who represent the
> interests of the WHOLE county because the run for
> election across all districts. So, it seems the
> at-large members have the greatest sense of what
> the County needs.

Doesn't matter. Given the structure of the board, the 3 at-large members will always be outvoted by the 9 district members.

When is the new walmart gonna open up at the Clifton ES site?? Can't wait! Maybe they should raise the 'town' and build a fair lakes type shopping center.

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After all, as one Clifton parent was told by Ms.
> Bradsher, "All of the schools in Fairfax County
> are basically exactly the same. Your child will
> receive the exact same education no matter which
> school he attends."
> Really???? So all those "Title I" schools don't
> really need all that extra funding because they
> are failing??? After all, if all schools in FFX
> Co. are exactly the same, why are some schools
> entitled to more funding than others???

Title I schools get additional resources under NCLB simply because they have higher percentages of lower-income students. A school isn't designated as a Title I school because it's "failing" or hasn't made AYP.

I do think it's silly to suggest that all schools are the same, if Liz Bradsher indeed said that. Is that a direct quote or a reformulation of a statement to the effect that children can get a good education at any FCPS school?

CliftonDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in Clifton's
> > enrollment
>
> What data are you basing that information on?
> What is the source of the data?

FCPS statistical reports with historical enrollment data.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Factchecker Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in
> Clifton's
> > > enrollment
> >
> > What data are you basing that information on?
> > What is the source of the data?
>
> FCPS statistical reports with historical
> enrollment data.

Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility Report from July of last year showed Clifton would be overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce, bounce. A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.

Justsaying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inquiry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please substantiate your claims that Clifton
> > residents "seem awfully racist." Give us
> evidence
> > to prove your point.
> >
> > Almost everyone in town that I am friends with
> > voted for Obama
>
> "My best friend is black" and "I have black
> friends!" are the knee-jerk reactions of racists
> when called out, and the fact that you posted that
> here in your own defense is interesting.
>
> Also interesting... what does voting for Obama
> have to do with whether or not you are racist?
> You and your friends in Clifton voted for Obama
> DESPITE his race? Odd that you would bring that
> up as a defense or as evidence of not being a
> racist... that is a very racist position.

Interesting logic, "Justsaying".
The fact that a community votes for a cadidate that is of a different race than they are (in this case Obama), definitely does not prove that they are not racist. But it is an indication and perhaps evidence that they are not racist. (Most racist when given the choice between a candidate of their own racial background and one of another, would choose the candidate of their own racial background.) Follow that, DIM-WIT.
Are there people in Clifton that are Racist? Perhaps. Is Clifton racist as a whole, or a racist community? I have never seen any evidence of this. To the contrary, I seen many examples of the Clifton community welcoming and embracing people from a wide assortment of backgrounds.

So again, to all of the people claiming that Clifton is a racist town, in this thread, please come forth with some evidence, or anything that supports your claim. If you are going to make judgements about people, back it up.

Found this "LIZ BRADSHER NEEDS TO RESIGN" out on this website:
http://www.fairnessinschoolsports.org/wordpress/?m=200802

" Mr. Storck 2/15/08 third request

School Board

Mr. Dale

At the end of last nights meeting you removed student after student using the zero tolerance standard for their unacceptable behavior. I agree with your decisions, because there is no place for this type of behavior in the FCPS system.

As I stated to you last night, it would be unacceptable behavior for people to confront school board members or any FCPS employee at any meeting. I am sure that you would not appreciate being attacked.


This type of behavior by a public official must not be tolerated and zero tolerance standard must be applied to Liz Bradsher actions.


I demand a response and action to be taken against the freshman school board member Liz Bradsher. If she acts in this manor after only two months on the school board, what will she do in the future?"

Inquiry:
You are off base in your thought that there are a lot of people on this board claiming Clifton is racist - there are two or three probably at best - Troll Patrol Liz, Stu and another troll or two from the SWRPC.
Troll syn. demon, ogre, goblin, hobgoblin, monster...pretty much covers these community destroying narcissistic school crushers.
(Trolls...post inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response, often extreme lengths in their attempts at eliciting reactions)
Attachments:

>CliftonDad:
>Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility Report from July of last year showed Clifton would be overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce, bounce. A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public
Meetings, Jun 29, 2010 - Work Session No. 137
"There are consequences for each of the two options available to the School Board, including the following more substantive concerns.
Close Clifton Elementary School
Closing the school will add to the elementary school capacity deficit in that region."

The trolls voted to close Clifton - which will ADD to overcapacity problem - translated = close Clifton makes FCPS MORE (MORE!) crowded.

If that ain't bouncing, don't know what is.
Attachments:

Who is Liz Bradsher?


"I operate with full communication with those who are affected by a decision," Bradsher said. "I will make sure the community is involved and that there will be some discussion."
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=330154&paper=81&cat=104

After she voted to close Clifton:

"On top of her vote, NLS reports that she turned down a chance to speak at a Clifton Elementary PTA because they “haven’t been nice to her.”

http://rednova8.com/wordpress/

CliftonDad Wrote:
> Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility Report
> from July of last year showed Clifton would be
> overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many
> numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce, bounce.
> A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.

Why is it hilarious - it's just historical enrollment data posted on FCPS's web site. It shows that year-end enrollment at Clifton was down 7.8% in June 2010 compared to June 2000. Actually, the enrollment peaked in 2003-04 and has since declined 10.9%.

Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the methodologies for its projections every other day.

NoToLiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> "On top of her vote, NLS reports that she turned
> down a chance to speak at a Clifton Elementary PTA
> because they “haven’t been nice to her”and spend countless hours whining on FFXU > and creating mindless and low quality photoshop picture slurs. Most agree that
> reasoning with these people is like dealing with 2 year olds having a
> temper tantrums.
>

Fixed it!

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP
> projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by
> 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the methodologies
> for its projections every other day.

And, just in case the school won't be "under/overcrowded" change the capacities.

West County Boundary Study Capacities -

Westfield = 3100
South Lakes = 2150

Current Official Capacities -

Westfield = 2823
South Lakes = 2192

Making Westfield conveniently over capacity so the RD'ed Floris kids can't pupil place back to Westfield...

Of course, the taxpayers were told in the bond referendum that the Westfield expansion from 2500 was good for 600 kids.

PRESS RELEASE FAIRFAX EDUCATION COALITION

-- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --

FEC Questions FCPS “Process” Used for Clifton Elementary Closure
Agrees with Public & Press Editorials That School Board Vote Was Premature

Fairfax County, VA – Monday, July 12, 2010 --- The Fairfax Education Coalition (FEC) is joining members of the community and the local media in questioning the Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) process that led to last Thursday’s School Board vote to close Clifton Elementary School.

FEC understands that the current economic condition is creating a difficult situation for FCPS policy makers. However, FEC views the School Board vote to close Clifton Elementary as premature and agrees with The Connection Newspaper’s July 8th editorial headline: “School Board Could Learn to Share: Too many decisions made with one of ‘we know best,” not enough sharing of data.”

Contrary to FCPS assertions that all documents pertaining to the closure of Clifton Elementary School were posted on the FCPS website in advance of Thursday’s vote, The Washington Examiner reported that key information concerning well-water tests for Clifton ES were emailed to School Board members by FCPS Chief Operating Officer Dean Tistadt only minutes before the final vote [“Parents, officials ‘appalled’ at decision to close Clifton school”; July 11, 2010 article].

Additionally, three prominent historical societies – National Trust for Historic Preservation, Preservation Virginia, and the Department of Historical Resources - all sent letters to the School Board Chair indicating that Clifton Elementary could be eligible for federal preservation funds based upon Clifton’s rural historical status. FEC believes that no decision should have been made without investigating whether or not the school was eligible for such federal funds.

FCPS officials tout the Clifton process and Southwestern Boundary study as the model for future FCPS boundary changes. After Thursday’s outcome, FEC is seriously concerned about this new FCPS “model” and its lack of full transparency. As the press and at least one FCPS School Board member have stated, the Clifton community maintains a high level of uncertainty as to whether FCPS staff provided them and the School Board with important data in a timely manner.

If FCPS wants to retain the public’s trust, it has to play fair with the public and be completely transparent. School officials must fully demonstrate to the public that ALL data has been properly vetted before important votes concerning school closures or boundary changes are cast. And in this case, all of the data was clearly not vetted before the vote. FCPS can and must do better.

FEC members include individual leaders from: FAIRGRADE, The Fairfax Coalition of Advocates for Public Schools (FairfaxCAPS), The Fairfax County Federation of Teachers (FCFT), The Fairfax Education Association (FEA), SLEEP, Fairfax County Association for the Gifted, and Fairfax Zero Tolerance Reform

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonDad Wrote:
> > Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility
> Report
> > from July of last year showed Clifton would be
> > overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many
> > numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce,
> bounce.
> > A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.
>
> Why is it hilarious - it's just historical
> enrollment data posted on FCPS's web site. It
> shows that year-end enrollment at Clifton was down
> 7.8% in June 2010 compared to June 2000.
> Actually, the enrollment peaked in 2003-04 and has
> since declined 10.9%.
>
> Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP
> projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by
> 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the methodologies
> for its projections every other day.

I agree with you about the projections which is why it is funny that in the FCPS Press Release regarding Votes to Close Clifton it listed a reason as "Enrollment is projected to decline from the current 369 students to a
projected 298 students in 2015" even though in their own documentation they presented only one year ago the Feasibility Report said Clifton would be OVERCAPACITY by 22 by 2013. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce.

CliftonDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP
> > projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by
> > 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the
> methodologies
> > for its projections every other day.
>
> I agree with you about the projections which is
> why it is funny that in the FCPS Press Release
> regarding Votes to Close Clifton it listed a
> reason as "Enrollment is projected to decline from
> the current 369 students to a
> projected 298 students in 2015" even though in
> their own documentation they presented only one
> year ago the Feasibility Report said Clifton would
> be OVERCAPACITY by 22 by 2013. Bounce. Bounce.
> Bounce.

It is amazing how they felt comfortable making such an important decisions on such unreliable data. Unless, of course, the decision was already made and they just needed to grasp at straws.

As far as historical data goes, in eight of the last eleven years, CES has been enrolled ABOVE capacity.

The kind people have a wonderful dream: Liz Bradsher on the guillotine

Because people like you make me feel so tired When will you die?

When will you die? When will you die?

When will you die? When will you die?

Because people like you make me feel so old inside, please die

And kind people do not shelter this dream, make it real

Make the dream real Make the dream real Make it real

Pep Song Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The kind people have a wonderful dream: Liz
> Bradsher on the guillotine
>
> Because people like you make me feel so tired
> When will you die?
>
> When will you die? When will you die?
>
> When will you die? When will you die?
>
> Because people like you make me feel so old
> inside, please die
>
> And kind people do not shelter this dream, make it
> real
>
> Make the dream real Make the dream real
> Make it real


Little Rocky Run Can’t Stand Liz Either
We ran to the bus tour to go and greet her
No New School!
No More Liz
Stay out of our School Biz

Get lost Liz!

It's a tough pill to swallow, but let's face it, Clifton needs to be closed. Capital funding is limited and it's for the greater good of the county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate overcrowding and consolidate small and run down Clifton ES.

The school sits on the crest of a large hill overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its site cannot be developed. Staff said it would also be difficult to fit a staging area for a construction team on Clifton’s site, and the school’s renovation would necessitate the loss of trees and the leveling of a small hill at the back of the building.

The school is not on a normal sewage or water system, which also drives up construction and ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is the only Fairfax school that uses well water, which not only complicates the installation of sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking water quality issues since the 1990s, said staff.

The school system has estimated that the cost closing Clifton, building a new school on the Liberty campus and constructing additions at other schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall. To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity issues in western Fairfax would cost more, approximately $21.5 million, according to a presentation given to the School Board June 10.

Clifton residents said they would be happy with a scaled-back renovation plan, where not much more than the mechanical system would be replaced and a sprinkler system would be installed.

But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton open, school staff has advised that it proceed with a full-scale renovation, since several features of Clifton’s current building are outdated.

AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation, Clifton’s renovation costs would still be relatively high on a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the small schools in the county.

The average elementary school in Fairfax houses approximately 675 students and Clifton’s building can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using housing data and local birth rate information, the school system has also projected that Clifton’s student body would decline to fewer than 300 students over the next four to five years.

"The overhead for an elementary school with 300 students is not dissimilar to the overhead of an elementary school with 600 students. You still need to have a principal, an assistant principal, a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.

From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled water to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well water unsafe to drink, according to a report by a citizen advisory committee.

If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a school well fails, the school system could end up spending approximately $300,000 to fix Clifton’s water quality issues. FCPS would then have to spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep and monitoring of the well system, according to a citizen advisory report.

Wailing that you will do anything to keep your school open does not change the financial facts above. If money is available in Clifton to keep the ES open, use it to fund a Charter School!

Taxpayer extrodinaire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a tough pill to swallow, but let's face it,
> Clifton needs to be closed. Capital funding is
> limited and it's for the greater good of the
> county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate
> overcrowding and consolidate small and run down
> Clifton ES.
>
> The school sits on the crest of a large hill
> overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its
> site cannot be developed. Staff said it would also
> be difficult to fit a staging area for a
> construction team on Clifton’s site, and the
> school’s renovation would necessitate the loss of
> trees and the leveling of a small hill at the back
> of the building.
>
> The school is not on a normal sewage or water
> system, which also drives up construction and
> ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is the
> only Fairfax school that uses well water, which
> not only complicates the installation of
> sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking
> water quality issues since the 1990s, said staff.
>
> The school system has estimated that the cost
> closing Clifton, building a new school on the
> Liberty campus and constructing additions at other
> schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall.
> To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity
> issues in western Fairfax would cost more,
> approximately $21.5 million, according to a
> presentation given to the School Board June 10.
>
> Clifton residents said they would be happy with a
> scaled-back renovation plan, where not much more
> than the mechanical system would be replaced and a
> sprinkler system would be installed.
>
> But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton
> open, school staff has advised that it proceed
> with a full-scale renovation, since several
> features of Clifton’s current building are
> outdated.
>
> AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation, Clifton’s
> renovation costs would still be relatively high on
> a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the
> small schools in the county.
>
> The average elementary school in Fairfax houses
> approximately 675 students and Clifton’s building
> can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using
> housing data and local birth rate information, the
> school system has also projected that Clifton’s
> student body would decline to fewer than 300
> students over the next four to five years.
>
> "The overhead for an elementary school with 300
> students is not dissimilar to the overhead of an
> elementary school with 600 students. You still
> need to have a principal, an assistant principal,
> a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.
>
> From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an
> average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled water
> to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well
> water unsafe to drink, according to a report by a
> citizen advisory committee.
>
> If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a
> school well fails, the school system could end up
> spending approximately $300,000 to fix Clifton’s
> water quality issues. FCPS would then have to
> spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep and
> monitoring of the well system, according to a
> citizen advisory report.
>
> Wailing that you will do anything to keep your
> school open does not change the financial facts
> above. If money is available in Clifton to keep
> the ES open, use it to fund a Charter School!


Welcome to the list, Mr. Tisdadt.

FROM FAIRFAX COUNTY SUPERVISOR, SPRINGFIELD DISTRICT, PAT HERRITY:

SPECIAL EDITION OF THE HERRITY REPORT


Special Edition: School Board Votes to Close Clifton ES

• School Board Votes to Close Clifton ES
• My Thoughts and Why This Is Important To You
• No Compelling Case to Close Clifton ES
• What Really Happened?
• Unanswered Questions
• Thanks
• It's Not's Over
• My Testimony from the Public Hearing

School Board Votes to Close Clifton ES

In another demonstration of being out of touch with reality and common sense, the School Board voted last Thursday night to close Clifton Elementary School. I believe that their vote was misguided and wasteful. Judging from the tears on the faces of the children and many of the parents at the hearing and over the last several days, the impact of the decision will be devastating to the children, residents and businesses of Clifton.

The School Board did not have to close Clifton ES. As I describe more fully below, there was no compelling case to close Clifton Elementary School. In fact there was a compelling case to keep it open:
• It is one of Fairfax County's best performing elementary schools
• There were financial benefits if the school were kept open
• The issues with the well water were resolved in the 11th hour (although remaining the primary reason members cited for closing the school)
• The school is not in dire need of a renovation and the parents of Clifton ES lobbied to wait years for a renovation.
• There was a win-win resolution available that would benefit the entire county by accelerating renovations on other schools (including West Springfield High School) and leave the school open.

My Thoughts and Why it is Important to You

The bottom line is I feel that the Fairfax County Public School (FCPS) system made the decision to close Clifton ES well before they started the community engagement process, which was nothing more than a dog and pony show. Every point FCPS made in favor of closing the school, the Clifton community responded with facts and statistics showing that FCPS was either wrong or at a minimum using incomplete data. As a result, FCPS would simply change their justification for closing the school. But FCPS and the majority of the School Board refused to consider any of it because they were determined to close the school no matter what.

You may be asking yourself, "Why should I care about a school closing in Clifton?" You should care because if this ever happens in your community you need to know this is how FCPS currently operates. The decision is made before they actually study anything, let the facts be damned. I wish I could say this was an isolated incident, just a one time case of bad judgment, but unfortunately it is par for the course with FCPS.

On everything from the school budget, to their attempt to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a fancy new administrative building, to VGLA testing, to school renovations, FCPS staff and the School Board have shown they are unwilling to make sound decisions and engage their citizenry in a constructive, meaningful dialogue. It is absolutely time for the public to hold them to a much higher standard. I hope you will join me in that effort.

No Compelling Case to Close Clifton ES

Before the vote to close Clifton ES, one School Board Member challenged the other Board Members to cite the "compelling case to close Clifton ES". No School Board Member offered the compelling case, not even the maker of the motion to close the school, Springfield District Representative Liz Bradsher. The School Board Chair reminded her fellow Board Members that staff had given them the reasons and that they were on the web site. However, the web site offered no compelling case to close the school:

• Problems with the Well Water. Clifton ES is served by well water and some of the wells have had water quality issues in the past. Throughout this entire process FCPS staff cited the well water as the chief reason renovation and ongoing operating expenses at the school were high. Amazingly at the meeting they continued to reference these reasons even though the FCPS Chief Operating Officer (COO) Dean Tistadt released a report minutes before the meeting that said they had fixed the third well and that its flow was adequate and the water safe (pending the outcome of a final test and all indications are that this test will be positive as well). Pardon the pun but this part of the "compelling case" holds no water.

• Declining Enrollment. FCPS staff, under the direction of Mr. Tistadt, are projecting the enrollment of Clifton ES to decrease to 298 students by 2015 (it was at 369 this past year) and thus claimed it would not be cost effective to renovate Clifton ES on a per student basis. The problem with basing such an important decision on FCPS enrollment projections is that FCPS has a horrible track record of projecting enrollment. This is one of the main reasons the four School Board Members voted to delay for three years because they know firsthand how bad the staff is with projecting enrollment. One School Board Member actually pulled out some old documents and read off multiple years of projections for Colin Powell ES, noting how wrong FCPS was year after year. Staff had no response.

It was also very odd to see the School Board endorse Mr. Tisdadt's enrollment projections when they know firsthand how incredibly inaccurate staff was at projecting the enrollment of schools like South County Secondary School and Westfields High School. There are numerous other examples throughout the county of faulty school by school projections.

The Clifton community also presented a compelling case, citing actual housing transactions, that enrollment would not be declining. They also presented a compelling case for how the school could be expanded to 550 to help solve the capacity problems in this section of the county. See below for more detail on the irony of closing a school when you have capacity issues and need to build additional facilities.

In addition, national studies indicate that for learning - smaller is better and that the optimal size for elementary schools is between 300 - 500 leaving Clifton within that range. The outstanding performance of Clifton as well as other small schools throughout this country proves this point.

• Difficult/Expensive to Renovate. Another reason listed was that site constraints made the renovation of Clifton too expensive and difficult. This argument largely faded into the background as parents and the community argued for no renovation. Instead of just trying to address one or two of the areas where Clifton ES did not meet the education specification, FCPS inflated the cost of a renovation by calling for gold standard educational specs including a geothermal wall. The parents of Clifton did not want anything done to the school, it is ALREADY one of the highest performing schools in the county, but the School Board insisted on telling the parents "we know what's best for your children". The whole educational specs argument became so ridiculous during this process that one School Board Member said during the discussion on the motion to close the school that FCPS needs to take a serious look at what they require and determine if it is something they can afford going forward. Think about it, FCPS just closed one of the highest performing schools in the county because it was too expensive to implement gold standard educational specs that the parents did not want. How does that make any sense?

• Closing Clifton "Saves" Money. FCPS will try and tell you that they have saved the $11 million it would cost to renovate Clifton ES and that money will be put into the renovation queue accelerating all other projects. But that is only true because FCPS is using an accountant gimmick. There are still serious capacity issues in the Southwestern portion of the county (made even worse because they just closed a school in this section of the county!) that will have to be dealt with either by building a new school or by adding capacity to multiple existing elementary schools. This means that millions of dollars are still going to be spent on something other than the renovation queue. According to FCPS that money comes out of a "different pot" though. The bottom line is this does not save FCPS any money overall because they are closing one school to build additions or another new school. In fact the only real way to save money was to keep Clifton ES open with no or limited renovations. This would have put money back into the renovation queue and reduced the need for additional capacity to be built.

Unanswered Questions

I must point out that not all School Board Members fell for the ridiculous arguments of staff. Tina Hone argued strenuously on behalf of Clifton ES and made a motion to delay this decision for up to three years so FCPS could get answers to the many unanswered questions and continue to monitor the enrollment numbers. Sandy Evans, Jim Raney and Ilryong Moon all supported her. These four School Board members also did a great job of asking tough questions and poking holes in every one of the staff's reasons for closing the school. It was very refreshing to see these four School Board Members looking for real answers from FCPS staff and to see the staff unable to refute so many of their great points.

• Where Will the Children of Clifton ES Go to School? Unbelievably there is no answer. Staff lists 4 or 5 surrounding schools with some capacity but no answers. It appears a possibility the Clifton students and community will be divided up to multiple schools - at no time in the last 20 plus years has that happened in Fairfax County.

• Unanswered School Board Questions? In response to the final thirty-two questions about Clifton ES posed by School Board members, eight questions were answered by FCPS staff with "additional information pending" or "response pending". How the School Board could make such an important decision while so many of their own questions went unanswered by staff is unfathomable.

• How Will We Solve the Capacity Problems in Southwest County? It seems sheer lunacy to close a school when you have school capacity problems in that section of the county but that is what the School Board decided. To make matters worse they did it without the answer to how they will solve their capacity issues or what it will cost them. The original recommendation by school staff was to build a new school at the Liberty MS site and close Clifton ES. They changed the recommendation to just close Clifton ES because they could not show closing Clifton resulted in cost savings. Now we are left with the capacity issues.

• What Will They Do with the Building? Unbelievably again there is no answer. Initially the answer was to give it to the Town of Clifton but they have said they can't afford it. It likely will be returned to the county where it will become another liability for Fairfax County taxpayers.

What Really Happened?

Why did they vote to close the school? I am not 100% sure why FCPS staff was so adamant about closing this school. That is a question only FCPS staff and certain members of the School Board know the real answer to. I can tell you this though; I believe that it had nothing to do with "saving money" or getting to the best answer for the citizens of Clifton or the entire county. The most cost effective option was to defer renovation on Clifton ES indefinitely and put the money back into the renovation queue. But again, from the beginning this wasn't about saving money, it was about closing this particular school no matter what.

In the end a majority of School Board Members (specifically Liz Bradsher, Tessie Wilson, Stu Gibson, Dan Storck, Kathy Smith, Janie Strauss and Brad Center) refused to consider any options and blindly followed staff's lead. In addition, these School Board Members had the audacity to tell the parents of Clifton ES that they knew what was best for their children. They told the parents that it was not right for their children to continue to attend an un-renovated school even though the school is operating just fine today and is one of the highest performing elementary schools in the county.

> the school is operating just fine today and is one of the highest performing
> elementary schools in the county.


And you, Mr. Tisdadt, lousy speller extraordinaire, want to close it down for specious non-reasons which have all been thoroughly debunked in this thread.

Idiot.

Parent of 3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Idiot.

Racist

Must be that tainted drinking water you fuckers are sucking down.

Parent of 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Racist
>
> Must be that tainted drinking water you fuckers
> are sucking down.


False accusation of racism on the basis of no evidence whatsoever?

Yeah, that pretty much confirms Dean Tistadt dropped the speller "extrodinaire" post.

Dean Tistadt:

Publicly available information on the web at the Virginia State Board of Elections website provides names of contributors to Liz Bradsher’s campaign for School Board Representative. Some of the names on the list include:

David Albo/Delegate Springfield
David Albo/Albo & Oblong
Tom M. Davis/Congressman
Peter Dickinson/Capital Impact Strategies Lobbyist
Joseph Shirvan/NYMC Mortgage Broker
Lawrence Berberian/BF Saul Broker
Jose Cecin/BB&T Investment Banker
Robert Robertory/Northwestern Mutual Financial
Fuchs Jeff/Delta Consulting Group
Michael Powell
John Rowley III/Holland and Knight
William Bachman/Williams & Connolly
Anne Gallant
Joseph Christopher/Cisco Systems Director
Thomas Moore/Bacon & Thomas
Loiza Pieri
George Walters
Kevin Goodale/Impression Marketing


For more information, Virginia State Board of Elections website:
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/Campaign_Finance_Disclosure/View_Disclosure_Reports/CF_Reports_Results.asp?RepYearVal=2007&RDVal=&RSDVal=&CandVal=1271&OffVal=ALL&PtyVal=ALL&CommVal=&SUWVVal=CandidateView&SCHVal=A&PgNo=1&PgChg=P&tCNVal=&tCCVal=&tCSVal=&tCZVal=&tCOVal=&tCBDVal=&tCEDVal=&tCAFVal=&tCATVal=&tCCSOptVal=EqualTo&DownID=&RepID=(0)JANN15_08+(0)DECN06_07+(0)OCTN29_07+(0)OCTN16_07+(0)SEPN17_07+&SchID=A+B+D+

The answers to why Clifton was really closed? Look at the FFXU "New School Board Members" thread.

If gettng West Springfield High School bumped up the list is the reason Liz closed Clifton - even though she could have left it open and not renovated it, I wonder what school is next on the renovation queue? Who is going to get closed next? Who is going to get hurt next? Or is the next school going to be protected because it belongs to Stu or Kathy (or one of the others that voted yes to close Clifton)?

The most recent Fairfax Times lists the FCPS schools up for renovation (those in the design phase, and those ready for construction in the next 3-5 years). West Springfield HS does not appear on either list.


But Langley HS does. It's already up for construction that could start in 2014. Hasn't it already had a remodeling? And it gets another one....

I noticed several houses just put up for sale in Clifton in this week's Post. Prices may go down there---and the decline in school population may happen just because of this vote to close the school (and the school board will say they were right about declining enrollment of course). The school board might get what they really don't want---lower tax revenue from that area. Prices will go down there. The rest of the county will pay. This will happen wherever they dink around like this (closing schools or changing boundaries). The effects of this are widespread.

West Springfield is about to get on that list. They are going to forgo the design phase by saying that they will "design-build"---which is a concept that Liz Bradsher mentioned at a community meeting I attended once. Apparently it's sort of a design as you go thing that builders will do. Watch for this concept to be discussed (or not discussed and just voted on) at an upcoming SB meeting. They will say that (voila!) it saves money as well as speeds up the process. It's coming. And since they are saving money (sure) on the Clifton ES closing, this is so much saving we can only win.

I think Langley had an add on---but it's older section has not been renovated----right?

unintended consequences Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed several houses just put up for sale in
> Clifton in this week's Post. Prices may go down
> there---and the decline in school population may
> happen just because of this vote to close the
> school (and the school board will say they were
> right about declining enrollment of course). The
> school board might get what they really don't
> want---lower tax revenue from that area. Prices
> will go down there. The rest of the county will
> pay. This will happen wherever they dink around
> like this (closing schools or changing
> boundaries). The effects of this are widespread.

Unfortunately, the School Board doesn't really care about the taxpayers and most parents in the area are too naive to know what is going on. So the School Board just threatens the parents that some program is going to get cut if they don't get more money and then tells them to go and parrot whatever they say to the County Supervisors. Then the County Supervisors look bad for raising taxes. It is a very dysfunctional system.

unintended consequences Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed several houses just put up for sale in
> Clifton in this week's Post. Prices may go down
> there---and the decline in school population may
> happen just because of this vote to close the
> school (and the school board will say they were
> right about declining enrollment of course). The
> school board might get what they really don't
> want---lower tax revenue from that area. Prices
> will go down there. The rest of the county will
> pay. This will happen wherever they dink around
> like this (closing schools or changing
> boundaries). The effects of this are widespread.

Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up for sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just get closed without my noticing it?

What a straw-man argument you've made. I wouldn't discount entirely the possibility that some might cut off their nose to spite their faces, but seriously...

Good comment. This gets to the heart of the problem. I'm from a northern state and the system is much different there. The county and the school district are completely separate entities (and the school district receives the property taxes so the school board has to deal with both taxing and spending---not just spending---they set the property tax rate and collect it). It's a much more direct system. They ask the taxpayers for the money directly (no going through another governmental layer). Too bad people are naive about how the system works. Maybe if there are few more moves like this Clifton one, people will get a bit smarter.

unintended consequences Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good comment. This gets to the heart of the
> problem. I'm from a northern state and the system
> is much different there. The county and the
> school district are completely separate entities
> (and the school district receives the property
> taxes so the school board has to deal with both
> taxing and spending---not just spending---they set
> the property tax rate and collect it). It's a
> much more direct system. They ask the taxpayers
> for the money directly (no going through another
> governmental layer). Too bad people are naive
> about how the system works. Maybe if there are
> few more moves like this Clifton one, people will
> get a bit smarter.


Personally, I wouldn't care if they went back to having an appointed Board. The School Board (or at least most of them) disregard impacts on businesses and residents and that is disruptive to the Fairfax County economy as a whole.

I was thinking this same thing---about going back to an appointed board. This "elected" SB is not serving the people anyway.

Skeptic wrote:

Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up for sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just get closed without my noticing it?

What a straw-man argument you've made. I wouldn't discount entirely the possibility that some might cut off their nose to spite their faces, but seriously...




you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing to do with the school closing announcement---however, would you move in with preschool or elementary aged children if you didn't know what elementary school they may be going to? Or, for that matter, a boundary study coming up? Might not be a "fun" time. It won't help the seller.

re Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Skeptic wrote:
>
> Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up for
> sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just
> get closed without my noticing it?
>
> What a straw-man argument you've made. I wouldn't
> discount entirely the possibility that some might
> cut off their nose to spite their faces, but
> seriously...
>
>
>
>
> you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing to
> do with the school closing announcement---however,
> would you move in with preschool or elementary
> aged children if you didn't know what elementary
> school they may be going to? Or, for that matter,
> a boundary study coming up? Might not be a "fun"
> time. It won't help the seller.

Who wants to be a teacher at a school that may only have a year left? The Principal decided to resign this year too (consequence? think not). The Board didn't even care enough about the teachers to do a boundary study in advance. Of course, they haven't cared about the teachers in years and most of the teachers just hide in the quiet in desperate fear for their jobs. It's sort of like the mafia where there is a ruling power and everyone is in fear of speaking up. Many of those teachers have been friends for many years and now they are going to be split up and thrown to the wind too. How is that thanks for a job well done! There is lack of trust in the administration now too so any promises they make to try and sooth the fears are moot. Everything about his decision was wrong.

teach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> re Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Skeptic wrote:
> >
> > Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up
> for
> > sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just
> > get closed without my noticing it?
> >
> > What a straw-man argument you've made. I
> wouldn't
> > discount entirely the possibility that some
> might
> > cut off their nose to spite their faces, but
> > seriously...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing
> to
> > do with the school closing
> announcement---however,
> > would you move in with preschool or elementary
> > aged children if you didn't know what
> elementary
> > school they may be going to? Or, for that
> matter,
> > a boundary study coming up? Might not be a
> "fun"
> > time. It won't help the seller.
>
> Who wants to be a teacher at a school that may
> only have a year left? The Principal decided to
> resign this year too (consequence? think not).
> The Board didn't even care enough about the
> teachers to do a boundary study in advance. Of
> course, they haven't cared about the teachers in
> years and most of the teachers just hide in the
> quiet in desperate fear for their jobs. It's sort
> of like the mafia where there is a ruling power
> and everyone is in fear of speaking up. Many of
> those teachers have been friends for many years
> and now they are going to be split up and thrown
> to the wind too. How is that thanks for a job
> well done! There is lack of trust in the
> administration now too so any promises they make
> to try and sooth the fears are moot. Everything
> about his decision was wrong.

Ok, so I meant to say coincidence, think not. Also meant to say Everything about this decision was wrong. This is a painful subject which is only made worse by the fact that there are those people out there that seem to be relishing from watching anyone associated with this school suffer. No idea why.

re Wrote:
> you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing to
> do with the school closing announcement---however,
> would you move in with preschool or elementary
> aged children if you didn't know what elementary
> school they may be going to? Or, for that matter,
> a boundary study coming up? Might not be a "fun"
> time. It won't help the seller.

People would generally prefer the certainty of knowing what schools their kids will attend. But there are going to be big boundary studies in both the southwestern part of the county and the Annandale area regardless of whether Clifton is closed or kept open and, yes, people will continue to move in and out of those areas.

Skeptic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> re Wrote:
> > you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing
> to
> > do with the school closing
> announcement---however,
> > would you move in with preschool or elementary
> > aged children if you didn't know what
> elementary
> > school they may be going to? Or, for that
> matter,
> > a boundary study coming up? Might not be a
> "fun"
> > time. It won't help the seller.
>
> People would generally prefer the certainty of
> knowing what schools their kids will attend. But
> there are going to be big boundary studies in both
> the southwestern part of the county and the
> Annandale area regardless of whether Clifton is
> closed or kept open and, yes, people will continue
> to move in and out of those areas.

And eventually out of Fairfax County entirely once the economy improves. People move here for the schools. They buy their homes based on which school it is associated with. The schools are not all of the same quality despite what Mrs. Bradsher likes to tell people (but that is data she would rather NOT look at). All you have to do is look at the school scores. This type of ongoing instability eventually drives people away. FCPS isn't what it used to be either. They have overused VGLA tests to prop up the scores but eventually it will all surface.

CliftonParent Wrote:
> And eventually out of Fairfax County entirely once
> the economy improves. People move here for the
> schools. They buy their homes based on which
> school it is associated with. The schools are
> not all of the same quality despite what Mrs.
> Bradsher likes to tell people (but that is data
> she would rather NOT look at). All you have to do
> is look at the school scores. This type of ongoing
> instability eventually drives people away. FCPS
> isn't what it used to be either. They have
> overused VGLA tests to prop up the scores but
> eventually it will all surface.

Right. Then again, it may be that jobs and safety matter, too. There seem to be more jobs in the DC area right now than just about anywhere else. So where do all these disaffected parents go other than Fairfax? Not too many people will leave Fairfax for Prince William just because schools get redistricted every now and then. If anything, it seems like there are more new schools (Coates, Laurel Hill, South County Middle) being opened than old ones being closed.

The test scores probably tell you more about the overall demographics of the students at a school than what they do about the quality of the teaching or the performance of an individual student.

You may have a very strong case than Clifton shouldn't be closed. But whiny posts that the world will come to an end if your child ends up having to attend another high-performing school doesn't quite cut it.

You are assuming that Fairfax County schools are all high-performing. This is not true. Several have had to offer the tutoring and busing options under NCLB because they did not meet AYP for 3 years. There is a danger that more could go this route.

Other school systems besides Prince William: Loudoun, Montgomery, Falls Church City, Arlington, Howard County (MD). All of those are very good school systems.

more info Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are assuming that Fairfax County schools are
> all high-performing. This is not true. Several
> have had to offer the tutoring and busing options
> under NCLB because they did not meet AYP for 3
> years. There is a danger that more could go this
> route.
>
> Other school systems besides Prince William:
> Loudoun, Montgomery, Falls Church City, Arlington,
> Howard County (MD). All of those are very good
> school systems.

I didn't say all the schools in the county were "high-performing," but then again you haven't identified which school near Clifton hasn't met AYP for 3 years in a row, have you?

Yes, there are other good school systems besides Fairfax. If you think Falls Church City is big enough to accommodate many new residents, though, or that people working in the DC area will flock to Howard County to avoid school redistrictings in Fairfax, you're surely mistaken. Loudoun has had a lot of redistrictings in recent years as well. And I'm sure the Clifton crowd will feel right at home on the .10 acre lots in Arlington.

If anything, people are continuing to flock to Fairfax; one recent report estimated 50,000 new residents this year alone. That's probably a far stronger argument to keep Clifton open than the suggestion that it's necessary to keep people from leaving the county in droves.

This was from a previous post:

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait to see which elementary schools these
> kids get bused into (or what the boundary changes
> are when these kids get displaced and other high
> scoring kids further out get bused to new
> elementary schools---sort of a "pinball effect").
> The test scores for Clifton kids are probably the
> highest in the county (if not close to highest).
> These kids (or kids affected by these kids'
> displacements) will be an asset to any school that
> is struggling to make AYP or close to losing AYP
> (which may be the case at some). This closing has
> a lot to do with other things that are not being
> stated (money is definitely not the
> issue---especially given that parents were willing
> to go without renovation and "gold standard"
> items). It's about saving the "behinds" of the
> board who don't want to have "failing schools" on
> their watches. Think about how much the whole
> boundary study is going to cost (nobody is talking
> about that).
>
For a school to make AYP, it must meet or exceed achievement benchmarks in English and mathematics. Here are where the facts are on all the schools included in the Southwestern Regional Planning study.
[p1pe.doe.virginia.gov]

These are the schools out of that study that have problems:

Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2009-2010.
London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010
Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010 but failed AYP the two prior years.
Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in 2009-2010.

If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually FCPS has to put forth a restructuring plan.

By closing Clifton, they will create overcrowding where there was supposedly none and we have seen how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth the Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was also the main driver to build South County Middle. Do you think she won’t come back again to push for a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets re-elected or even before then? Do you think that the closure of Clifton might just have been in the grand scale of things to justify building a new school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill into eventual acceptance…..



Here is some data on AYP. They have not failed 3 years in a row yet---but a couple are close to it.

People won't leave in droves---just the people you would prefer to stay are the ones who will leave. Others will come of course. Same thing for teachers.

from before on this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> These are the schools out of that study that have
> problems:
>
> Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> 2009-2010.
> London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009
> and 2009-2010
> Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010
> but failed AYP the two prior years.
> Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in
> 2009-2010.
>
> If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually FCPS
> has to put forth a restructuring plan.
>
> By closing Clifton, they will create overcrowding
> where there was supposedly none and we have seen
> how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield
> School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth the
> Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was
> also the main driver to build South County Middle.
> Do you think she won’t come back again to push for
> a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets
> re-elected or even before then? Do you think that
> the closure of Clifton might just have been in the
> grand scale of things to justify building a new
> school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill into
> eventual acceptance…..
>

> Here is some data on AYP. They have not failed 3
> years in a row yet---but a couple are close to it.

The failure of a school to make AYP periodically is not always a huge deal. Longfellow recently failed to make AYP, and it is typically one of the top two middle schools sending students to Jefferson (the other is Carson in Herndon). In any event, none of the schools you mentioned have a boundary contiguous to Clifton ES. Does anyone really think Clifton ES students will get sent to Bull Run? On the other hand, all of the schools whose boundaries share a border with the Clifton ES attendance area made AYP each of the past three years.

Of course, if a school not making AYP is such a cause for alarm, what are you doing still living in Clifton? Robinson - the school that Clifton ES students go on to attend - did not make AYP in 2008-09.

As to your other question, nothing that Liz Bradsher might do would surprise me.

from before on this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People won't leave in droves---just the people you
> would prefer to stay are the ones who will leave.
> Others will come of course. Same thing for
> teachers.

I really don't think that will happen but, if it does, I won't lose too much sleep over it.

http://www.davealbo.org/dave-on-the-issues/renovatingbuilding-schools

"Dave’s “Albo-Rust Public/Private School Construction Plan” created a new way to use private companies and private sector capital to build schools. Combined with local parents’ land swap idea, we built SCSS in half the time originally planned and at two-thirds the cost.

West Springfield High School
As a WSHS graduate, this issue is close to Dave’s heart. Dave Albo’s “Albo-Rust Public/Private School Construction Plan” built South County Secondary. Dave’s plan renovates WSHS next year using this proven successful method."

SO - what's the Dave secret? Is it a secret Dave/Liz pact? If just Public/Private School Construction Plan - WHY NOT DO SAME FOR CLIFTON?
If Dave's RENOVATING WSHS NEXT YEAR - WHY DOWS WSHS NEED TO MOVE UP IN THE QUEUE?
Why can't the Wonder Twins rescue any other school other than WSHS?
Attachments:

Liz has to go. She is evil and does not care about one student in FFC.

re renovation list Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> West Springfield is about to get on that list.
> They are going to forgo the design phase by saying
> that they will "design-build"---which is a concept
> that Liz Bradsher mentioned at a community meeting
> I attended once. Apparently it's sort of a design
> as you go thing that builders will do. Watch for
> this concept to be discussed (or not discussed and
> just voted on) at an upcoming SB meeting. They
> will say that (voila!) it saves money as well as
> speeds up the process. It's coming. And since
> they are saving money (sure) on the Clifton ES
> closing, this is so much saving we can only win.


LOL. If people are pissed now, wait until they do a "design/build" at WSHS. Speaking from experience - that does NOT save money or time, especially when dealing with a bureaucracy like a school board. Basically in a nutshell you have a general concept on what improvements you're going to make and a general sense of cost. And all throughout the process, things get redesigned, reformulated, taken out of the scope, put into the scope, etc., etc. In the end, expect to pay more than what was budgeted. Why? Because you're essentially flying by the seat of your pants and it goes like this:

School board (or whoever is managing the project): "hey, this seem like a good idea, how much will it cost?"
General Contractor: About $50,000.
School Board: Do it.
Contractor: Well, if we do it that way, it will affect the __________ that we put in last week that you asked for that cost $10,000. We'd have to rip it out.
School Board: Just do it, it's a better concept.

OR

School Board: I'm thinking we should go ahead and remove ______________
Contractor: We can, but since we've already installed ______________, it will make that much more difficult in terms of time and money. We should have done it before we did ______________.
School Board: Hmmm......let's go ahead. It's worth it.

Repeat that 2,000 times and it adds up. Then as the project comes to a close, there's no money left and things get half assed.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

How do you know there were studies done while the Liberty Middle school site was being constructed?

Skeptic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> from before on this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > These are the schools out of that study that
> have
> > problems:
> >
> > Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> > 2009-2010.
> > London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> 2008-2009
> > and 2009-2010
> > Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in
> 2009-2010
> > but failed AYP the two prior years.
> > Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP
> in
> > 2009-2010.
> >
> > If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually
> FCPS
> > has to put forth a restructuring plan.
> >
> > By closing Clifton, they will create
> overcrowding
> > where there was supposedly none and we have
> seen
> > how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield
> > School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth
> the
> > Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was
> > also the main driver to build South County
> Middle.
> > Do you think she won’t come back again to push
> for
> > a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets
> > re-elected or even before then? Do you think
> that
> > the closure of Clifton might just have been in
> the
> > grand scale of things to justify building a new
> > school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill
> into
> > eventual acceptance…..
> >
>
> > Here is some data on AYP. They have not failed
> 3
> > years in a row yet---but a couple are close to
> it.
>
> The failure of a school to make AYP periodically
> is not always a huge deal. Longfellow recently
> failed to make AYP, and it is typically one of the
> top two middle schools sending students to
> Jefferson (the other is Carson in Herndon). In
> any event, none of the schools you mentioned have
> a boundary contiguous to Clifton ES. Does anyone
> really think Clifton ES students will get sent to
> Bull Run? On the other hand, all of the schools
> whose boundaries share a border with the Clifton
> ES attendance area made AYP each of the past three
> years.
>
> Of course, if a school not making AYP is such a
> cause for alarm, what are you doing still living
> in Clifton? Robinson - the school that Clifton ES
> students go on to attend - did not make AYP in
> 2008-09.
>
> As to your other question, nothing that Liz
> Bradsher might do would surprise me.


Silverbrook shares borders with Clifton and failed AYP. Fairview has some low performance scores as well. If a school is showing trouble now, it is actually far worse than it appears on the surface because they have been using VGLA to prop scores up. Union Mill folks are the ones that should be most concerned with the schools that are failing in Centreville because they are much closer. The closing of Clifton was a temporary shift to move the kids into other schools to create more overcrowding and back everyone into a corner to build the new school at Liberty Middle. Union Mill is going to get screwed but it may not come up again until after the election next year. If they vote for Liz again, they are fools. The writing is on the wall.

AYP Wrote:
> Silverbrook shares borders with Clifton and failed
> AYP. Fairview has some low performance scores as
> well. If a school is showing trouble now, it is
> actually far worse than it appears on the surface
> because they have been using VGLA to prop scores
> up. Union Mill folks are the ones that should be
> most concerned with the schools that are failing
> in Centreville because they are much closer. The
> closing of Clifton was a temporary shift to move
> the kids into other schools to create more
> overcrowding and back everyone into a corner to
> build the new school at Liberty Middle. Union
> Mill is going to get screwed but it may not come
> up again until after the election next year. If
> they vote for Liz again, they are fools. The
> writing is on the wall.

Silverbrook ES doeesn't share a border with Clifton ES. The only reason why there's been some suggestion of sending Clifton kids to Silverbrook is because Silverbrook currently has extra capacity.

I wouldn't exaggerate what you think the latest test results portend for the future. As noted, Robinson recently failed AYP. In two of the last three years for which test results were reported, about 7% of Clifton students failed the English SOL. Is this why the enrollment at Clifton is declining? It's the interpretation (or misinterpretation) of trends that has led FCPS to close the school.

If you feel folks in your part of the county are being "backed into a corner" to build a new school near Liberty MS, let's nip this in the bud now. I can think of plenty of older schools that would be happy to take the money and use it for renovations.

Skeptical Wrote:

> If you feel folks in your part of the county are
> being "backed into a corner" to build a new school
> near Liberty MS, let's nip this in the bud now. I
> can think of plenty of older schools that would be
> happy to take the money and use it for
> renovations.

Liz Bradsher's goal since she got into office has been nothing more than to worry about South County Middle School and West Springfield High School and to hell with everybody else. Albo is standing behind her encouraging it too. That is all Clifton Elementary ever was. A sacrifical lamb to further her (and Albo's) goals. The way she twisted her campaign promises is a complete embarrassment to the Republican party that endorsed her.

Rep Wrote:
>
> Liz Bradsher's goal since she got into office has
> been nothing more than to worry about South County
> Middle School and West Springfield High School and
> to hell with everybody else. Albo is standing
> behind her encouraging it too. That is all
> Clifton Elementary ever was. A sacrifical lamb to
> further her (and Albo's) goals. The way she
> twisted her campaign promises is a complete
> embarrassment to the Republican party that
> endorsed her.

That's right! Thanks Liz! Republicans like you help keep the Democrats in power. HAHHAHAHHAHH

Rep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Liz Bradsher's goal since she got into office has
> been nothing more than to worry about South County
> Middle School and West Springfield High School and
> to hell with everybody else. Albo is standing
> behind her encouraging it too. That is all
> Clifton Elementary ever was. A sacrifical lamb to
> further her (and Albo's) goals. The way she
> twisted her campaign promises is a complete
> embarrassment to the Republican party that
> endorsed her.

Is that really the case? I get the impression that she really only cared about South County and initially neglected West Springfield. Then, when the West Springfield parents blew a gasket, she had to start making crappy deals with other members of the Board and FCPS Staff, which is why she ended up supporting Clifton's closing.

It's about as inept as you can get, and I can't see her having any future political career in the area. It's amazing, though, to compare her performance to Jane Strauss, who very quietly always gets what people in her district want, with none of Liz Bradsher's posturing, Kathy Smith's tears, or Stu Gibson's boring speeches.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2010 12:16PM by Mozart.

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rep Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> Liz Bradsher's goal since she got into office
> has
> > been nothing more than to worry about South
> County
> > Middle School and West Springfield High School
> and
> > to hell with everybody else. Albo is standing
> > behind her encouraging it too. That is all
> > Clifton Elementary ever was. A sacrifical lamb
> to
> > further her (and Albo's) goals. The way she
> > twisted her campaign promises is a complete
> > embarrassment to the Republican party that
> > endorsed her.
>
> Is that really the case? I get the impression
> that she really only cared about South County and
> initially neglected West Springfield. Then, when
> the West Springfield parents blew a gasket, she
> had to start making crappy deals with other
> members of the Board and FCPS Staff, which is why
> she ended up supporting Clifton's closing.
>
> It's about as inept as you can get, and I can't
> see her having any future political career in the
> area. It's amazing, though, to compare her
> performance to Jane Strauss, who very quietly
> always gets what people in her district want, with
> none of Liz Bradsher's posturing, Kathy Smith's
> tears, or Stu Gibson's boring speeches.


The Liz Whisperer picture wasn't too far from the truth. With the closing of Clifton, Stu Gibson won big in several ways. Everyone hated him for South Lakes but now he has got someone who is hated even more (Liz) and took some of the focus off himself. Republicans now look bad because one of their own turned on their campaign promises. Do you think that any Democrat running against her isn't going to grab onto that and point it out in the next election? The only way the Republicans can save themselves now is to NOT endorse her next time.

Jane Strauss does seem to be more politically savvy than Liz. If Liz had any political brains, she would have left Clifton open with no renovation except fixing the fire sprinkler system. She could have still help WSHS and not slit her own throat. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Skeptical Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AYP Wrote:
>
> Silverbrook ES doeesn't share a border with
> Clifton ES. The only reason why there's been some
> suggestion of sending Clifton kids to Silverbrook
> is because Silverbrook currently has extra
> capacity.
>

FCPS has attendance "islands" all over the place, so I wouldn't put too much stock in shared borders guaranteeing that some school is or isn't where students end up after redistricting.

On AYP's suggestion, if there's one thing that's consistent in FCPS redistricting decisions (other than Langley is inviolable...), it's that kids get moved to fix test scores using SES as the test score proxy. Closing Clifton yields a bunch of high SES/test scores to move around to "fix" test scores in other schools.

Before AYP, kids were moved to just to make scores look nice (especially easy moving GT Centers...). But, with AYP, there's an added benefit to redistricting -- if enough kids are moved around, the AYP start date reinitializes because you have "new" schools.

Liz might as well start packing her bags. If King Kong ran against her, she would lose the next election. There might only be 400 something students at Clifton Elementary, but that number will make a difference in a school board race. Remember, there are also many families in Clifton without elementary aged children that the closing will affect (property values, etc) who also vote.

I don't live in Clifton, but do live in her district. I will be voting for King Kong.

"Of course, if a school not making AYP is such a cause for alarm, what are you doing still living in Clifton? Robinson - the school that Clifton ES students go on to attend - did not make AYP in 2008-09."



When we signed the contract for our house in Clifton, Centreville High School was under construction. Clifton Elementary was IN Centreville's boundaries. By the time our house was built, we had been moved to Robinson. I attended several school board meetings about this and I was appalled that the meetings were like the Keystone Cops! No long term plans, no organization...what an eye opener! Nothing has changed in all these years. At one point in the discussions, they were planning on sending Clifton students to Woodson! I guess that was just to make Robinson sound like a good alternative.

Never feel secure about where your child will attend school in Fairfax County.

yep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't live in Clifton, but do live in her
> district. I will be voting for King Kong.


Everyone one in my family will be voting for King Kong too.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
> FCPS has attendance "islands" all over the place,
> so I wouldn't put too much stock in shared borders
> guaranteeing that some school is or isn't where
> students end up after redistricting.
>
> On AYP's suggestion, if there's one thing that's
> consistent in FCPS redistricting decisions (other
> than Langley is inviolable...), it's that kids get
> moved to fix test scores using SES as the test
> score proxy. Closing Clifton yields a bunch of
> high SES/test scores to move around to "fix" test
> scores in other schools.
>
> Before AYP, kids were moved to just to make scores
> look nice (especially easy moving GT Centers...).
> But, with AYP, there's an added benefit to
> redistricting -- if enough kids are moved around,
> the AYP start date reinitializes because you have
> "new" schools.

There was so much talk about the need to eliminate attendance islands during the 2008 redistricting that I'd be surprised if FCPS created a new attendance island to send Clifton kids to Silverbrook. It's more likely at this point that they'll do a massive redistricting in a few years that will change the boundaries for Silverbrook, Sangster and many other schools. Of course, that will piss people off even more, but it definitely seems to be in the cards.

Redistricting isn't always "social engineering" undertaken to impact the test scores at a school with lower scores. No one thinks the redistricing of some Annandale students to Lake Braddock and Falls Church this fall was intended to have an effect on the scores at any of those schools. It was just intended to deal with serious over-crowding at one school when there was capacity at two others.

Skeptic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> > FCPS has attendance "islands" all over the
> place,
> > so I wouldn't put too much stock in shared
> borders
> > guaranteeing that some school is or isn't where
> > students end up after redistricting.
> >
> > On AYP's suggestion, if there's one thing
> that's
> > consistent in FCPS redistricting decisions
> (other
> > than Langley is inviolable...), it's that kids
> get
> > moved to fix test scores using SES as the test
> > score proxy. Closing Clifton yields a bunch of
> > high SES/test scores to move around to "fix"
> test
> > scores in other schools.
> >
> > Before AYP, kids were moved to just to make
> scores
> > look nice (especially easy moving GT
> Centers...).
> > But, with AYP, there's an added benefit to
> > redistricting -- if enough kids are moved
> around,
> > the AYP start date reinitializes because you
> have
> > "new" schools.
>
> There was so much talk about the need to eliminate
> attendance islands during the 2008 redistricting
> that I'd be surprised if FCPS created a new
> attendance island to send Clifton kids to
> Silverbrook. It's more likely at this point that
> they'll do a massive redistricting in a few years
> that will change the boundaries for Silverbrook,
> Sangster and many other schools. Of course, that
> will piss people off even more, but it definitely
> seems to be in the cards.
>
> Redistricting isn't always "social engineering"
> undertaken to impact the test scores at a school
> with lower scores. No one thinks the redistricing
> of some Annandale students to Lake Braddock and
> Falls Church this fall was intended to have an
> effect on the scores at any of those schools. It
> was just intended to deal with serious
> over-crowding at one school when there was
> capacity at two others.


Didn't they just redistrict Annandale last year?

Skeptic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Redistricting isn't always "social engineering"
> undertaken to impact the test scores at a school
> with lower scores.

And SES is at the top of the list in decisions about what slices to take.

Since FCPS own the land in Clifton will they eventually tear down the ES to build another school? Perhaps a highschool that will allow the overflow from overcrowded schools to attend in Clifton?

jjoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since FCPS own the land in Clifton will they
> eventually tear down the ES to build another
> school? Perhaps a highschool that will allow the
> overflow from overcrowded schools to attend in
> Clifton?


It sounds like what they want to do is throw it back to County where it will sit in the County inventory costing taxpayers more money. Big savings closing the school, huh? Funny how they forgot to mention that. It's off their books but taxpayers will still be paying for it so it really isn't costing us any less.

CliftonParent Wrote:
>
> Didn't they just redistrict Annandale last year?

Yes, they did a small redistricting of Annandale last year that will start taking effect this fall. However, no one really asserted it was intended to boost test scores either at Annandale or the schools receiving Annandale students (Falls Church and Lake Braddock). Some of the parents weren't happy with the changes, but they didn't complain that the redistricting was being undertaken to advance someone's evil agenda.

FCPS will be undertaking a bigger "Annandale Regional Study" soon, together with the Southwestern Regional Boundary Study, that is eventually going to result in a lot of redistricting in both those areas.

Skeptic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonParent Wrote:
> >
> > Didn't they just redistrict Annandale last
> year?
>
> Yes, they did a small redistricting of Annandale
> last year that will start taking effect this fall.
> However, no one really asserted it was intended
> to boost test scores either at Annandale or the
> schools receiving Annandale students (Falls Church
> and Lake Braddock). Some of the parents weren't
> happy with the changes, but they didn't complain
> that the redistricting was being undertaken to
> advance someone's evil agenda.
>
> FCPS will be undertaking a bigger "Annandale
> Regional Study" soon, together with the
> Southwestern Regional Boundary Study, that is
> eventually going to result in a lot of
> redistricting in both those areas.


That's fascinating that Annandale was just redistricted last year and that they are redistricting again. During the Southwestern Regional Planning Study, FCPS provided the group covering 'New Schools Proposed Solution if Clifton ES Closes' Committee' a document. They based part of their report on it. It said:

FCPS Policy on Boundary Adjustments
- Shall not affect the same occupied dwellings any more often
than once in three years.

SubC Wrote:
>
> That's fascinating that Annandale was just
> redistricted last year and that they are
> redistricting again. During the Southwestern
> Regional Planning Study, FCPS provided the group
> covering 'New Schools Proposed Solution if Clifton
> ES Closes' Committee' a document. They based part
> of their report on it. It said:
>
> FCPS Policy on Boundary Adjustments
> - Shall not affect the same occupied dwellings any
> more often
> than once in three years.

Not sure there's an inconsistency. FCPS did a small "administrative" redistricting last year that will move some students from Annandale to Falls Church and Lake Braddock starting this fall. It still contemplates a larger redistricting that will surely be accompanied by lots of the types of community meetings and studies that we've grown to love. The end result likely will be that still more Annandale students will get moved to other schools, such as Stuart or maybe even Woodson, not that the areas that have just been reassigned to Falls Church and Lake Braddock will get redistricted again.

SubC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> FCPS Policy on Boundary Adjustments
> - Shall not affect the same occupied dwellings any
> more often
> than once in three years.

Sorry SubC, but the dwelling policy reads: **whenever possible**, shall not affect the same occupied dwellings any more often than once in three years.

Here's the entire "policy" which basically says, do whatever you want:

Numerous factors may be considered when consolidating schools, redistricting school boundaries, or adopting pupil assignment plans. The following examples of these factors are not presented in priority order. Any or all of these factors may be relevant in a particular consolidation, redistricting, or assignment plan: the proximity of schools to student residences; projected school enrollment and capacity; walking distances; busing times and costs; walking and busing safety; natural and man-made geographic features; the impact on neighborhoods; school feeder alignments; contiguous school attendance areas; long-range capital plans; the socioeconomic characteristics of school populations; the distribution of programs and resources; the overall impact on families and students; and comparative long-term costs. Adjustments shall be made without respect to magisterial districts or postal addresses and, whenever possible, shall not affect the same occupied dwellings any more often than once in three years. The consideration of these factors and such adjustments shall involve affected communities to the extent reasonable.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Sorry SubC, but the dwelling policy reads:
> **whenever possible**, shall not affect the same
> occupied dwellings any more often than once in
> three years.

That is, the **specific occupied dwellings** "whenever possible" won't be affected. So, while they've sliced and diced Floris about 10 times in the 18 years I've lived here, as long as they don't slice and dice specific occupied dwellings "whenever possible" those dwellings aren't considered affected by prior slicings & dicings. In other words, just because half of the kids in your "community" were moved 2 years ago, they aren't part of your "community" today & that slicing doesn't count for reslicing today.

For example, 1 year after the SL RD, Floris was part of the Coates RD & part of Floris was sliced off to go to Coates.

Also, at least during the SL RD, Staff & the SB argued that, slicing & dicing policy really was for a particular purpose - e.g. just because an area had been RDed at ES level, that didn't affect the ability to RD at the HS level.

All of these rules regarding redistricting are meaningless anyway. They can change them at anytime with no notice whatsoever. The SB has been doing that to the rules regarding teacher pay and seniority, etc. The state has been doing it as well. That's why the teachers are totally stressed out right now. They know that ANYTHING can happen at any time with absolutely no warning. They have seen it happen this year and are fearful for what's ahead. Teaching is a hard job even in a supportive environment. It's not good for teachers OR students. Someone above said it feels like the mafia. That's about right.

no rules for SB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of these rules regarding redistricting are
> meaningless anyway. They can change them at
> anytime with no notice whatsoever. The SB has
> been doing that to the rules regarding teacher pay
> and seniority, etc. The state has been doing it
> as well. That's why the teachers are totally
> stressed out right now. They know that ANYTHING
> can happen at any time with absolutely no warning.
> They have seen it happen this year and are
> fearful for what's ahead. Teaching is a hard job
> even in a supportive environment. It's not good
> for teachers OR students. Someone above said it
> feels like the mafia. That's about right.


From what I understand, they are trying to take money out of the reserves (retirement funding?) to pay for Priority Schools Initiative that they didn't put in their budget. I think I heard the money was going to pay for training for the Admin/Principals? It's interesting how Liz Bradsher wants to call herself a fiscal conservative but then keeps voting to spend, spend, spend.

It's ridiculous. They have to justify all of those positions at Gatehouse. Training the principals? What they really need to do is keep the principals IN the schools instead of pulling them all the time to go out to meetings and trainings.

The whole SB (including Badsher) keep spending to keep Dale's "cabal" there---they have to justify their Gatehouse expenditure (one thing leads to another). They keep going to the punch bowl.

Is it 2011 yet???
Attachments:

unintended consequences Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was thinking this same thing---about going back
> to an appointed board. This "elected" SB is not
> serving the people anyway.

The old appointed boards engaged in the same behavior as the current School Board with even less transparency than what we get today. They would change boundaries in the spring of one school year for the following fall with little explanation. If you didn't like it, you could leave, and it was extremely rare to grant transfer requests.

In short, the only reason to go back to an appointed board would be to disabuse people of the hope that elected board members would look out after their interests.

How did the appointed Board work from a financial perspective? The problem that I see now is that the current School Board gets 54% of the County Budget. THe County Supervisors don't, however, have any control over how the 54% is spent once they give it to them. Instead of being held financially responsible for their decisions, the County Supervisors get beat up for raising property taxes even though the School Board was the driver of those increases.

Case in point -- If the School Board doesn't want Clifton Elementary than they throw it back to the County. The School Board will claim cost savings even though in reality to you and I (the property tax payers), it hasn't saved US anything!

A lot of people don't realize how this all works though. THe School Board says in the Press that they have saved money and the average person believes it even though it is not really true.

FCPS School Board handled this situation very poorly--particularly Liz Bradsher. It seems like the anonymity created by the sprawl here in Fairfax County leads these people to think they can treat people, neighborhoods, and communities like this and get away with it.

West Springfield HS has never been the pampered favorite in the history of FCPS School Board.

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did the appointed Board work from a financial
> perspective? The problem that I see now is that
> the current School Board gets 54% of the County
> Budget. THe County Supervisors don't, however,
> have any control over how the 54% is spent once
> they give it to them. Instead of being held
> financially responsible for their decisions, the
> County Supervisors get beat up for raising
> property taxes even though the School Board was
> the driver of those increases.
>
> Case in point -- If the School Board doesn't want
> Clifton Elementary than they throw it back to the
> County. The School Board will claim cost savings
> even though in reality to you and I (the property
> tax payers), it hasn't saved US anything!
>
> A lot of people don't realize how this all works
> though. THe School Board says in the Press that
> they have saved money and the average person
> believes it even though it is not really true.


We definitely need a system where the people spending the money are the same people responsible for collecting it so the accountability is there.

Yes, it's analagous to a kid who keeps asking his parents for money until the parents finally say, "Go out and earn your own money!" The kid has no realization of the value of money until he has to work for it. Same for the school board. Interesting how the SB can add some "initiative" after the budget has been voted on (and take the "initiative" money from the "retirement" set aside money). The kid said he would spend the money on his AP test fee, but is now using it to buy a new video game.

handled poorly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS School Board handled this situation very
> poorly--particularly Liz Bradsher. It seems like
> the anonymity created by the sprawl here in
> Fairfax County leads these people to think they
> can treat people, neighborhoods, and communities
> like this and get away with it.
>
> West Springfield HS has never been the pampered
> favorite in the history of FCPS School Board.


Not sure what her prejudice is, but for the most part Liz Bradsher had an attitude of hatred toward most of Clifton during this process which is really weird considering all the votes she got from Clifton. Nevertheless, she has obviously become desensitized to the fact that it is YOUNG CHILDREN that she is impacting and she should no longer be serving on the Board of Education. The closure of Clifton and spreading the children to 4 or 5 schools is more like a vicious attack on 400 children and the teaching staff at Clifton Elementary, none of which deserved it no matter what her issues were with any parents. Not only has an elementary school not been closed in something like 20 years but the kids are usually all moved together to one school. This was vicious! If you don't believe it, than maybe you should come and see what the last day of school at Clifton is going to be like. Do you think there won't be a lot of people crying? This was vicious. Nor is it saving taxpayers any money in the long run as they would like you to believe.

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> handled poorly Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FCPS School Board handled this situation very
> > poorly--particularly Liz Bradsher. It seems
> like
> > the anonymity created by the sprawl here in
> > Fairfax County leads these people to think they
> > can treat people, neighborhoods, and
> communities
> > like this and get away with it.
> >
> > West Springfield HS has never been the pampered
> > favorite in the history of FCPS School Board.
>
>
> Not sure what her prejudice is, but for the most
> part Liz Bradsher had an attitude of hatred toward
> most of Clifton during this process which is
> really weird considering all the votes she got
> from Clifton. Nevertheless, she has obviously
> become desensitized to the fact that it is YOUNG
> CHILDREN that she is impacting and she should no
> longer be serving on the Board of Education. The
> closure of Clifton and spreading the children to 4
> or 5 schools is more like a vicious attack on 400
> children and the teaching staff at Clifton
> Elementary, none of which deserved it no matter
> what her issues were with any parents. Not only
> has an elementary school not been closed in
> something like 20 years but the kids are usually
> all moved together to one school. This was
> vicious! If you don't believe it, than maybe you
> should come and see what the last day of school at
> Clifton is going to be like. Do you think there
> won't be a lot of people crying? This was
> vicious. Nor is it saving taxpayers any money in
> the long run as they would like you to believe.


Hey, this is King Kong and you just gave me a great idea for when I run for Skol Bord against Liz. I'll tape the last day of school with everyone crying and then make it into a commercial that says "This is what Liz did for one of the top performing schools in her District, what can she do for you?!" Then she can't use that scene with me checking out that lady in my hand against me because I have been worrying about that a little. King Kong for Skol Board 2011!

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Not sure what her prejudice is, but for the most
> part Liz Bradsher had an attitude of hatred toward
> most of Clifton during this process which is
> really weird considering all the votes she got
> from Clifton. Nevertheless, she has obviously
> become desensitized to the fact that it is YOUNG
> CHILDREN that she is impacting and she should no
> longer be serving on the Board of Education. The
> closure of Clifton and spreading the children to 4
> or 5 schools is more like a vicious attack on 400
> children and the teaching staff at Clifton
> Elementary, none of which deserved it no matter
> what her issues were with any parents. Not only
> has an elementary school not been closed in
> something like 20 years but the kids are usually
> all moved together to one school. This was
> vicious! If you don't believe it, than maybe you
> should come and see what the last day of school at
> Clifton is going to be like. Do you think there
> won't be a lot of people crying? This was
> vicious. Nor is it saving taxpayers any money in
> the long run as they would like you to believe.

I thought the actual closing was being deferred until the boundary study was completed. Is this wrong? If so, will people still cry this year or will they buck up for now? If the actual closing won't occur until after the larger boundary study occurs, and the larger boundary study is going to take a while, isn't there a chance the next School Board (after the 2011 election) could reverse this decision?

In any event, there are already lots of "split feeders" in Fairfax, where the elementary school students go on to attend different middle and high schools. The middle school that I attended sent students to four high schools. Carson sends students to Westfield, Oakton and South Lakes. Yes, there are tears, but they dry.

Sending all the Clifton students to a single school is a non-starter. When FCPS turned TJ into a magnet school in the 80s, they redistricted almost all of Jefferson to Annandale, rather than spreading the students around to other schools like Stuart and Edison. Now Annandale is seriously over-crowded and FCPS has decided it has to fix the past error that gave rise to the problem. Some of the schools near Clifton may be under-capacity, but not by enough to absorb all the Clifton students.

If you believe this decision is wrong, fight harder to have it overturned, or at least make sure those who are responsible will pay a price at the ballot box next year. Venting on an internet forum about how "vicious" the decision was, or how it will result in tears, is self-indulgent.

Let's shelve on the emotional issues and focus on the facts:

Liz committed political suicide for the way she handled the Clifton closure. She should not have lied to the community and tried to contain their fury knowing she was going to close the school no matter what.

Clifton Elem will never be renovated "as is"-it is too small and costly to operate as a 400 student school. If you want to keep the school, you either do a full renovation building "up" to make it a school that will hold say 600 students. The only way to do this is to examine birth rates in that zip code and neighboring ones, to come up with your own population projections for the next several years. If every family in Clifton had another kid that would help also!

West Springfield should be a tear down situation-like Glasgow Middle. They build the new school on the fields (2 years) while the kids attend the old school and then they tear down the old school.

Why the hell did SOCO Middle School get build ahead of schools on the 2005 bond referndum? Isn't anyone curious where that $50 million came from?

2011 will be the year of redemption. Stu, Janie, Liz, Tessie are GONE. I think Kathy Smith will be allowed to stay only so we can torture her.

what will happen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's shelve on the emotional issues and focus on
> the facts:
>
> Liz committed political suicide for the way she
> handled the Clifton closure. She should not have
> lied to the community and tried to contain their
> fury knowing she was going to close the school no
> matter what.
>
> Clifton Elem will never be renovated "as is"-it is
> too small and costly to operate as a 400 student
> school. If you want to keep the school, you
> either do a full renovation building "up" to make
> it a school that will hold say 600 students. The
> only way to do this is to examine birth rates in
> that zip code and neighboring ones, to come up
> with your own population projections for the next
> several years. If every family in Clifton had
> another kid that would help also!
>
> West Springfield should be a tear down
> situation-like Glasgow Middle. They build the new
> school on the fields (2 years) while the kids
> attend the old school and then they tear down the
> old school.
>
> Why the hell did SOCO Middle School get build
> ahead of schools on the 2005 bond referndum? Isn't
> anyone curious where that $50 million came from?
>
> 2011 will be the year of redemption. Stu, Janie,
> Liz, Tessie are GONE. I think Kathy Smith will be
> allowed to stay only so we can torture her.

Franklin Sherman just received a nice, but not overly extravagent, renovation that leaves its current capacity at 398 students.

Skeptical wrote:

I thought the actual closing was being deferred until the boundary study was completed. Is this wrong? If so, will people still cry this year or will they buck up for now? If the actual closing won't occur until after the larger boundary study occurs, and the larger boundary study is going to take a while, isn't there a chance the next School Board (after the 2011 election) could reverse this decision?



If the actual closing hinges on the boundary study, why vote to close the school now? No, the school is going to be closed because that is what Dale and the SB want for reasons we are having a hard time understanding. Apparently the principal of Clifton ES got it full well and got out. Yes, people will cry and not "buck up for now" because the damage has already been done. People can't sit around hoping for real input on the boundary study when they didn't get it on the school closing. "Bucking up" now will only encourage the SB to do whatever they want in the boundary study. It's not time to "buck up". No "bucking up" as long as they're "******* up".

CliftonParent, I am in agreement with you. Not sure if you understood that.

>West Springfield should be a tear down situation-like Glasgow Middle. They build >the new school on the fields (2 years) while the kids attend the old school and >then they tear down the old school.

The football stadium, track, and baseball field were not cheap items---probably a few million right there--and they would have to be rebuilt. Also, there would be a lot of hauling on the tear down. Where would sports and marching band practice and play for those 2 years? Middle schools don't have football stadiums and expensive tracks and fields.

can relate Wrote:
>
> If the actual closing hinges on the boundary
> study, why vote to close the school now? No, the
> school is going to be closed because that is what
> Dale and the SB want for reasons we are having a
> hard time understanding. Apparently the principal
> of Clifton ES got it full well and got out. Yes,
> people will cry and not "buck up for now" because
> the damage has already been done. People can't
> sit around hoping for real input on the boundary
> study when they didn't get it on the school
> closing. "Bucking up" now will only encourage the
> SB to do whatever they want in the boundary study.
> It's not time to "buck up". No "bucking up" as
> long as they're "******* up".

By "bucking up," I did not mean you should just take whatever comes your way that you believe is unjust. However, moaning about all the tears that have been, or will be, shed will not get you very far. Most FFXUG readers are probably between 12-25 and would be happy if their schools were closed, if not leveled entirely.

MORE INVALIDITY of process and projections from FCPS Board...just how incompetent are they with estimates & projections???

Facilities Work Session, Executive Summary 7/13/09
Staff estimates that the renovation of Clifton with a current capacity of approximately 375 students will cost about $19 million, or about $50,700 per student projected to attend this school in 2013.

FCPS draft feasibility study, FCPS Responses 7/13/09 (yes, same date)
On average, what is the average cost per student for a standard elementary school
renovation and new school versus the average cost per student if Clifton Elementary is renovated?
Based on the most recent elementary school project bids in fiscal year 2008-09, FCPS experienced a price decline of nearly 20 percent. Therefore, all projects, including Clifton Elementary, were adjusted based on the construction market correction. These figures are based on the current enrollment at each of the facilities. It is important to note that neither of the new schools is at capacity, which significantly raises the per pupil number.
New elementary school projects $21,882 per pupil
Elementary school renovations $24,550 per pupil
Clifton Elementary School estimate $42,000 per pupil

Southwestern Regional Planning Study Committee Summary of Issues, 10/29/09
Schools PROJECTED CAPACITY DEFICT 2013-14
1. Eagle View ES -374 students
2. Colin Powell ES -166 students
3. Centreville ES -128 students
4. London Towne ES -118 students
5. Bull Run ES - 57 students
6. Union Mill ES - 48 students
7. Centre Ridge ES - 23 students
8. Clifton ES - 22 students (aka 352 students)

Clifton Phase II Presentation Final Report - 3/25/2010
Current Program Capacity 376 Enrollment Projection 325
Full Renovation Phased/Occupied
Cost per Student ] 376 $ 31,602
Cost per Student ] Enroll Proj/Trend $ 36,562
Full Renovation Unoccupied
Cost per Student - 376 $ 30,158
Cost per Student ] Enroll Proj/Trend $ 34,891
Modified Renovation Committee's Recommendation
Cost per Student- 376 $ 25,402
Cost per Student ] Enroll Proj $ 29,388

SRPS Building Utilization Current 4/9/10
Clifton ES 366 374 98%

SRPS Building Utilization Projected 4/9/10
Clifton ES 325 374 87%

Final Staff Report 5/3/10:
Clifton ES
2012
$11,009,544
312
$35,287 per student
Projected Enrollment: 298 students

Skeptic wrote:


By "bucking up," I did not mean you should just take whatever comes your way that you believe is unjust. However, moaning about all the tears that have been, or will be, shed will not get you very far. Most FFXUG readers are probably between 12-25 and would be happy if their schools were closed, if not leveled entirely



How do you know how old FFXUG readers are? I am over twice the age of 25! And why are people between ages 12 and 25 happy if their schools are closed? Please explain.

Also, what constitutes "moaning"? Most of what I see on here is people trying to get the facts about this closing and the upcoming boundary study. There are a few comments with tears, but hey, people really buy into their communities with their hearts and souls (not just their pocketbooks) and we really should celebrate that commitment to community. If you are under 25, yes, you might not understand that (yet).

So, to summarize, the well water was much ado about nothing-report given to the SB members minutes before the vote. Can someone post the results if they have them?

Neighboring schools to Clifton are at or near capacity:

Sangster, Fairview, Union Mill and Willow Springs all at 85-90%-no way they can handle 400 students.

No plans where to put these kids.

FCPS's own predictions-based on 2011-15 CIP, call for an increase of 6000 K-6 students by 2015, even though they poo-poohed the UVA report which stated the same thing.

What am I missing?