True about not needing the cameras-let's just look at the SOL failure rates at some of our high schools to see how "effective" the instruction is:

Annandale HS 2007-09 average failures 363
West Potomac HS 2007-09 avg failures 284
Mt Vernon HS 2007-09 avg failures 282
South Lakes HS 2007-09 avg failures 244
Falls Church HS 2007-09 avg failures 203
Lee HS 2007-09 avg failures 203
Edison HS 2007-09 avg failures 185
Stuart HS 2007-09 avg failures 156

Yes siree....high quality instruction-these kids are learning tons!

What is the pass rate on an SOL-65%?? Nearly 2000 failed SOLs in JUST 8 high schools.

No, we don't need cameras "invading their privacy"-let's continue down the same path that we are on.

Looks good to me.

How did you get this info? I would love to know more. Maybe we should start a new thread on this. Thank you.

Are those SOL failures the number of tests failed or the number of students who failed the tests? There is a difference. If the number relates to number of tests failed, it could be one kid is failing 3 or 4 of the tests (and thus the problem is with those same 80 or 100 students). Those students may be chronically truant---it's hard to teach a kid who is not in the classroom---but I suppose a great teacher would find a way to do that---maybe call them every night or use the films from the cameras---which I'm sure those students would watch. You are talking about high schools here. You also have the problem of students who come in near the end of the year and have to take the SOL's (no exceptions). There are many, many factors involved and the statistics do not tell you anything about the teachers. Annandale has a huge ESOL population (lack of English can definitely affect SOL scores). Just posting this kind of thing tells nothing about the teachers.

Do you think the parents should bear any responsibility for the child's education? I'll bet it would be an eye opener to go to the homes of the kids who are not passing the SOL's. I'm not sure how much a teacher can compensate for those kinds of failures. Teachers are not parents---no matter how much they try to help.

sad reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you think the parents should bear any
> responsibility for the child's education? I'll bet
> it would be an eye opener to go to the homes of
> the kids who are not passing the SOL's. I'm not
> sure how much a teacher can compensate for those
> kinds of failures. Teachers are not parents---no
> matter how much they try to help.


I have to agree - do you think Clifton ES has much better scores simply due to the teachers there? The teachers are great, but the parents are usually much more involved with their children, plus the children have much more of a socio-economic advantage simply by their backgrounds versus children of parents who are new to this country and may not even be here legally (no arguments now about that - I'm just stating facts), and therefore the children at other lower performing schools are simply at a disadvantage from the get go. Now THAT'S not rocket science to figure that out!

factsplease,

What you failed to mention is that there are nearly 15,000 students at those 8 high schools. That means 88% of the students passed their SOLS. You make it seem like most of the students didn't pass.

More than 1500(11%) and the average FRM % at those schools is 43%. Do you know that in Fairfax County only 66% of Limited English Proficient and 69% of Economically disadvantaged students earn a standard/advanced studies diploma within 5 years? You have to pass SOLS to earn those diplomas.

"Only 66% of Limited English Proficient [...] students earn a standard/advanced studies diploma within 5 years."

Discussion questions for everyone:
(1) Is five years long enough to expect students to become proficient in English?
(2) Have students "earned" standard or even advanced studies diplomas if they have not become proficient in English?

Tracy Strelser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boy, you're going to have a heart attack with all
> that angst you carry. I'm just a parent who loves
> her kids and wants the best for them and have seen
> the mistakes we parents make by trusting the
> school. We can at least be civilized.
>
> Thank you for the good information about "start
> with voting no to the bonds, voting out the
> current school board, and changing over the
> administrative beauracrats at the top."
>
> I would only like to add overhauling the
> administration at KGES to the list of places to
> start.
>
> And, you don't have to agree with me, but I'll
> take a good teacher in any bad system any day.
> That teacher makes the whole difference, which is
> why I don't think we should accept any bad
> teachers or any lukewarm teachers. Their role is
> far too important. 360 degree evals is a best
> practice that no one should fear.
>
> I want to continuously improve, so I would not
> mind my kids or my husband or my friends "grading"
> me. If what has been going on for almost a century
> was working, we wouldn't be having this
> conversation. At least I'm trying to DO something
> instead of sitting around yelling at everyone
> online.
>
> Start some blogs at your schools and start
> collecting input. Everyone knows it won't be
> totally objective, but at least you will be
> capturing some commen threads of concerns so that
> collectively we can start to change what's
> happening that isn't in the best interest of our
> kids, our society, our world.
>
> Tracy Strelser


Actually, my dear, I have no angst about this issue but certainly appreciate your concern. As I have repeatedly said I don't think an anonymous open to the world blog is a useful mechanism for evaluating teachers. You are supporting this by constantly signing your name and asking why I remain anonymous inferring that gives you more credibility on any given issue. Yet you provide this anonymous open outlet for teacher evaluation. You also stop short of saying you would want to be personally evaluated by the public who may not even know you. We are not talking about 360 degree evaluations. We are talking about anonymous evaluations by people who possibly aren't even associated with the school, the County or possibly even the Country.

With regards to doing something I assure you I have done plenty for kids over the last 15 years and am well known in school work issues my dear. And I do know all the teachers at my kids school.

There are some great points on both sides about cameras. But, it won't be on YouTube. These are only viewed by parents within firewalls. Schools do not let parents in the classroom long enough to get a real sense of what is happening. Maybe certain teachers are picked randomly at certain times and their full class is broadcasted for that one day. (Rather than this being "big brother" 24/7). Even if parents were selected to sit in a classroom for a day and asked for a write up about their experience. Anything would be better than the wall that is dividing parents from seeing teachers in action.

How can we grin and bear bad teachers? Listen to it said aloud. We have accepted such a level of mediocrity. These are children. We get one chance to do it right. There is so much bad in the world, can't we expect, demand, support and bend over backwards to ensure kids get GREAT teachers? I mean, let's be honest, we cannot ensure students get GREAT parents. We need GREAT teachers to fill that gap if we want to give kids the BEST chance to overcome difficult circumstances at home and be able to live GREAT adult lives and break free from vicious cycles.

Tracy-

You hit the nail on the head.

This school district and MANY teachers AND administrators AND School Board members. have, for years, played the blame game.

"There is nothing we can do....these kids are black...."

"We are powerless against poverty...."

One, actually said, "Maybe these kids are predisposed to fail". A SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER UTTERED THESE HATEFUL WORDS.

Two years ago, these misfits issued a Morality Gap Report suggesting that 2nd graders lacked good morals!!

It might as well be the 1950s in Mississippi in this school district. Way too many teachers EXPECT these kids to fail and it is reflected in the way they work.

Don't believe me? just read the blogs from teachers who whine constantly about all the demands and how they are powerless to make it better.

Maybe, just maybe, these kids are performing exactly the way their teachers expect them to.

yougogirl!,

What could Tracey possible know about poverty? Her kids go to Kent Gardens and she lives in McLean. Stop blaming teachers when kids can't perform academically. Those kids only spend 1/3 of their time in school. It is the 2/3 they spend outside of school that is dragging down their academic performance.

This is all Tracy said:

How can we grin and bear bad teachers? Listen to it said aloud. We have accepted such a level of mediocrity. These are children. We get one chance to do it right. There is so much bad in the world, can't we expect, demand, support and bend over backwards to ensure kids get GREAT teachers? I mean, let's be honest, we cannot ensure students get GREAT parents. We need GREAT teachers to fill that gap if we want to give kids the BEST chance to overcome difficult circumstances at home and be able to live GREAT adult lives and break free from vicious cycles.

Tracy, that's me, would argue with the person who suggested that I can't make comments on how to fix problems because I'm not poor. What? That is like saying an obstetrician named Pete can't deliver a baby properly simply because he doesn't have a vagina.

My friend, all it takes is a heart and a soul to know that a good mama and a good teacher are two of the most important things in this world. We don't have the right to fix many bad mamas, but we gotta right to fix the bad teachers and improve the so-so teachers and lift up and praise the outstanding teachers.

Right now, parents do not have a say in evaluating teachers and that should change. We need to be counted. That would help those good teachers who are out of favor with their principals for bad reasons.

It doesn't matter where you come from, it is where you want to go.

Tracy,

So now teachers are not GREAT unless they can perform miracles? Why does everyone blame teachers for society's ills? My sister teaches very poor children, she tries her best, but most of the parents refuse to be involved in their kids academics. Her school has over a hundred 4th graders and only 4 parents showed up for cirriculum night and not many more showed up for Back-To-School Night. A good number of the parents have their phones continually disconnected and/or constantly moving from home to home because they get evicted.

She has had 3rd-graders that have been enrolled in 7-8 different elementaries before they came to her class. She had a kid fall asleep in her class once because he had spent the previous weekend sitting outside a house while his dad shot up drugs with his buddies. How well do you think a kid like that would have performed on a standardized test after a weekend like that? Of course, you would fire the teacher if the kid failed the test. Nice, got any stories like that in Mclean? Seriously, doubt it.

Tracy-
You again miss the point. What you have done in evaluation by anonymous random blog will not seperate the good from the bad teachers even if you (or I) were qualified to make that decision. Your goals and ideals of accountability are worthy and are shared but your methods of anonymous and wide open feedback won't work. I can tell you in the schools I am involved with the administration and teachers listen to me because we view the relationship as a partnership and they respect the fact that I have worked side by side with them for over a decade.

I don't settle or accept mediocrity. I can also tell you that I know well over 100 teachers and know for the most part they don't either. So find a teacher you respect, sit down and listen to their view of the issues. Certainly they are not perfect and there needs to be objective accountability, but as I said previously you are not the solution.

All I can tell you is that only 12 parents at our last PTA meeting showed up for a conversation about math grouping, which is new at our school.

I know for a fact it was because the school didn't do what it can do to get the parents there.

If a school like mine isn't doing what it can do, I can only imagine what your sister's school is like. (No, this is NOT the teachers' fault.)

I think there is a misunderstanding. I do not favor SOLs and other tests like that to be the main criteria for how we evaluate teachers. If I understand correctly, that is what their administration has imposed on them, not parents.

What I favor is a piece of the pie. I just want a say, that's all. Right now, I've go no say whatsoever. My only options are private schooling or home schooling. It shouldn't be that way. We can do better for everyone at all levels.

When my kids perform poorly on a test, I do not blame the teacher. However, when my kids perform well and they are not recognized or challenged further by the school, then I do have a problem.

When there is a parent-day and I attend and see the teachers in action for a small stint and everything is wonderful, I feel great. Then, I get home and my child tells me that the teacher was putting on a performance for the parents and that it really isn't like that in class, I have a problem.

If I have these problems, they must be even more exaggerated at your sister's school.

I'd put my vote behind not evaluating teacher's by standardized tests. There are two sides of the issue. Yours and Mine. My kids have to sit through four weeks of SOL cramming at the end of the year when they could pass-advance them at the beginning of the year. I'd rather have them being taught new material. If we didn't have SOLs, then the teachers could just keep teaching.
We sit on the tar mac and they KNOW it.

I am for teachers and I am for parents. Somehow we've got to make that work together instead of it being percieved as threatening, harming or attacking good teachers.

Tracy wrote:

"I mean, let's be honest, we cannot ensure students get GREAT parents. We need GREAT teachers to fill that gap if we want to give kids the BEST chance to overcome difficult circumstances at home and be able to live GREAT adult lives and break free from vicious cycles."

Tracy, I hate to burst your idealistic bubble, but GREAT teachers cannot fill the gap when a child has a pretty BAD parent. Impossible. Can't even come close. It matters incredibly who your parents are. Children need to be loved unconditionally and teachers cannot provide that. The love for a child means that the child has someone to talk to, someone who thinks that child is the most wonderful human being, someone who believes in them 24/7. A parent must be there for a child so that the child becomes confident and feels secure. Without those things, the child is lost and angry. I teach children who don't have a GREAT parent like you and I can tell you that I don't think I'm a BAD teacher (other teachers and parents tell me I am a GREAT teacher). But I cannot save every child whose parent is not there, drunk, beating them up, etc. I can do a lot as a teacher, but I have only 24 hours in a day and 150 students and I cannot replace a parent. The sheer numbers can be daunting (and this is in a GREAT county like Fairfax). Imagine what it's like in inner cities where virtually every student is not being parented. Boggles the mind. I think your efforts are misplaced. When 45% of the children in this country are born out of wedlock, they are starting out at a disadvantage (and it gets worse from there). Be happy that you live in McLean and that your children have a pretty dang good school. Sure, there are going to be a few teachers who don't have GREAT days every day. But I'll bet you don't either.

I believe I state on my blog that my method of evaluating teachers is not the right method, but it is the best I can do with what I've got and it is better than doing nothing until the school or county steps up and provides this service for parents. I've also included the exact documents used to evaluate teachers by the county as well, in order for parents to see what is being used. They are equally bad, in my opinion.

The education system is rigged from the union on down and we've got to vote another way. I don't want teachers sacrificed, but yes, I'd rather sacrifice teachers than children if a choice has to be made.

http://peelbacktheapple.blogspot.com/
http://kgesteacherratings.blogspot.com/

You've got to be kidding me if you think wealth equals unconditional love or good parents. People are people. There may actually be worse rich people/parents than poor people/parents. Come on.

A GREAT teacher can save a child's LIFE be he rich or poor.

Tracy,

Please copy the place where I said anything about wealth in my post. I believe I said things about "unconditional love" and "attention". I think you read "wealth" into that. I mentioned out of wedlock births, but nothing about how rich or poor those families are.

I definitely agree that some rich people are lousy parents and some poor people who are wonderful parents.

My main point is that the parents make a difference.

Sure, GREAT teacher can really make a difference, but I would wager that a GREAT parent makes a greater difference.

+1
Tracy: Maybe your efforts would be better served to help those children who come from less then you do living in McLean. You are a little out of touch with what the rest of America is going through in these tough times.

Tracy Strelser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe I state on my blog that my method of
> evaluating teachers is not the right method, but
> it is the best I can do with what I've got and it
> is better than doing nothing until the school or
> county steps up and provides this service for
> parents. I've also included the exact documents
> used to evaluate teachers by the county as well,
> in order for parents to see what is being used.
> They are equally bad, in my opinion.
>
> The education system is rigged from the union on
> down and we've got to vote another way. I don't
> want teachers sacrificed, but yes, I'd rather
> sacrifice teachers than children if a choice has
> to be made.
>
> http://peelbacktheapple.blogspot.com/
> http://kgesteacherratings.blogspot.com/


Tracy-
There are better ways that you don't have to throw away the good with the bad and you seem smart enough to find a better way. I would hope your experience here on this anonymous blog might help you understand this isn't the best way to show accountability. To say you we are sacrificing children in the FCPS system when compared ot the rest of the country and the world is nothing less than melodrama.

I agree there are some problems with teachers and I actually think your solution will make the problems worse not better. As some other posters have said I find you to be somewhat out of touch with the educational system in Fairfax County and certainly the balance of the country.

I appreciate your constructive criticism. I have a lengthy, and I hope thoughtful reply. I didn’t want to eat up this blog with that discord. I published a page on my blog, called Helping Me Help You, which you can read on the link below.

http://peelbacktheapple.blogspot.com/p/helping-me-help-you.html

It may not be over just yet...



http://www.tbd.com/articles/2010/11/clifton-es-lawsuit-hearing-delayed-31523.html

Amen. It's sickening from the top down, more agree but don't speak out to protect the kids ....

CheekyMonkey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does this topic really need ANOTHER thread?
>
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/364
> 156.html
>
> No sympathy from me on this...it would be nice for
> everyone to have a small, semi-private school in
> their neighborhood, but I just don't buy that
> there is NO economic benefit to closing Clifton
> Elementary. Also, prove to me that having these
> children go elsewhere will provide a sub-standard
> elementary education.


ChunkyMonkey, What is your grievance with Clifton? I haven't seen jealousy like this since the folks in the Little Rocky Run community decided to acquire (steal) Clifton's Zip Code years ago.

The judge just heard the case this past Monday. I do not know yet what the outcome was. Hopefully he will understand what the SB does not. Keeping my fingers crossed for Clifton and the kids.

The next hearing on Clifton elementary by the judge is Monday, November 22nd at 9:00 am. Parents and students are asked to attend and wear red to show the judge how much we all care about our school and our kids.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Luckily the proper decision for the county was
> made. If those in Clifton REALLY feel they need
> that school then offer to buy the property from
> the county and open a charter school.

I have been approached by members of the local press, particularly that friggin Patch outfit, regarding my posts here on charter school alternatives. I thought I'd just answer them all with this post.

I may have been the first to publicly post that idea and I'm flattered by the requests for opinion, but I have no dog in the Clifton ES fight and would prefer not comment in that manner at this time.

re open the schoool