WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>. Do you
> think the elected officials enjoyed doing this? Or
> that they did it for shits and giggles? They did
> this to save taxpayer dollars. When government
> cuts spending, someone has to lose. I commend them
> for having the courage of doing it instead of
> sticking with the status quo and letting the
> budget get out of hand. Did anyone at these
> meetings go up to the elected officials and offer
> to pay more property taxes to keep the school
> open?

No, because Clifton doesn't have a sense of entitlement.

However, three prominent historical societies – National Trust for Historic Preservation, Preservation Virginia, and the Department of Historical Resources -all sent letters to the School Board indicating that Clifton Elementary could be eligible for federal preservation funds based upon Clifton’s rural historical status. That could have possibly saved some of your tax dollars. Not now though!

Go ahead and keep parroting everything they say though because we are at least getting some shits and giggles.

Most of the Clifton area is composed of modest houses that were built before the 1980's. There are many McMansions but these folks do not represent the true Clifton Spirit.
WTL brought up "Little Johnny". Well let me tell you a little something about "Little Johnny".
He is much more rugged and tough compared to the vast majority of Fairfax County youth. You see John has a lot of land to help his family take care of. He gets up at the crack of dawn before school to muck stalls, feed, water, and take care of the horses. Of course this and other chores need to be done after school as well.
Here it is in the summer time and John isn't playing video games and watching MTV like his more delicate FFX County counterparts. He's out mowing the 5 to 10 acre fields, cutting back brush, mending/painting fences, weeding the family garden, picking vegetables and fruit, cutting up wood, and conducting the many other tasks associated with living the rural life style.
When not working, you may find John and his friends camping, swimming in the stream, exploring the woods, or fishing the old farm pond to catch dinner.
I understand that some local kids on a farm just outside of town make a few extra bucks selling fresh eggs to the Clifton Store. This is what growing up Clifton is all about and this work ethic is why these kids succeed ... more so than others.

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> These whiners need to be quiet. It could be
> worse. A lot worse. My cousin lives in the
> Gainesville area and his neighborhood switched
> elementary schools 4 times, until finally settling
> down 3 years ago. But they're on the block for
> moving AGAIN in the '11-'12 school year. They've
> switched middle schools 3 times and next year
> they'll switch high schools for the 3rd time as
> well.


That's what this is all about - you want to see Clifton punished so you can feel better by feeling that everyone gets hurt equally. How kind you are....

Safe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Safe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SayWHAT?! Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Fire sprinklers, dumbass. The school is
> > unsafe.
> > >
> > >
> > What about the others schools that don't have
> fire
> > sprinklers? Aren't they unsafe?

More so than a comparable building with fire sprinklers. Yes.

>
> According to this article, in 2000 HALF the
> schools in Fairfax County did not have sprinklers.
> But county school officials stressed that "even
> schools without sprinklers fully meet fire codes
> and regulations and are safe for students."
>
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-67631375.html

That was in 2000, right after the Dogwood Fire, which of course was basically caused by not having sprinklers. They are correct that buildings that do not have sprinklers are not required to have them put in immediatly, however, a chance to retrofit them in should never be missed. I beleive that now most of the schools without them have been renovated to include fire sprinklers.

I'm going to do some math for the parents of Clifton.

1) Based on the 400 children that attend the school, and the $19,000,000 in 'renovations', the cost for renovations alone is $50,000 per student.
2) Now, let's say a new elementary school is built, one that can house 900 students. Let's say the cost is $25,000,000 to build. That is $28,000 per student. We are not counting energy costs, which would be cheaper in a new school, which would contain more energy efficient appliances.

$50,000>$28,000

WashingTone-Locian wrote:
If you don't want to be seen as having a "sense of entitlement," quit acting like you do.

Not many were there to overhear it, but a fascinating and nearly word for word quote from Liz Bradsher made viciously in the hall to a Clifton parent after the Work Session the night after the Public Hearing. Nice. Wonder how you are able to quote so succinctly Liz's on words...

So, explain why the kids at all the other schools get renovation and you justify throwing away an entire school building for a few million dollars that will buy the taxpayers decades and decades of additional use?

Mr. Albo can argue on the floor of the House for West Springfield - and Liz (you) stabbed those little kids & parents in the back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X46TGCywOjs&feature=related

Since Albo's quote "ensures WSHS Renovation allowed when School Construction Revolving Fund is created" (HB 2018 passed, in Senate Finance right now) - with emphasis on word renovation...why can't that same be used for Clifton?? Dave eloquently discusses schools that haven't been renovated in 30, 40 , 50 years (my oh my - can a building be in use that long without being renovated?) but no mention of Clifton.

Puzzling that now Albo's website says "As a WSHS graduate, this issue is close to Dave’s heart. Dave Albo’s “Albo-Rust Public/Private School Construction Plan” built South County Secondary. Dave’s plan renovates WSHS next year using this proven successful method." What welcome news - since WSHS is now miraculously being taken care of by Albo's plan, you don't need to close Clifton...I am sure those parents are looking forward to that announcement.

All the 'racism' claims that Liz, Stu, etc. make here (seemingly incognito) seem to be true - you are perfectly executing racism against the residents of the Clifton area. Nice agenda for a public school board to have - give me my voucher and I will gladly take my kid out of your system and educate elsewhere.

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warhawk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > These whiners need to be quiet. It could be
> > worse. A lot worse. My cousin lives in the
> > Gainesville area and his neighborhood switched
> > elementary schools 4 times, until finally
> settling
> > down 3 years ago. But they're on the block for
> > moving AGAIN in the '11-'12 school year.
> They've
> > switched middle schools 3 times and next year
> > they'll switch high schools for the 3rd time as
> > well.
>
>
> That's what this is all about - you want to see
> Clifton punished so you can feel better by feeling
> that everyone gets hurt equally. How kind you
> are....


Actually:

1. I don't care what the hell happens in Clifton, it doesn't affect me at all. You all can homeschool your kids, make them drop out to work on your "farms", have them learn in some old ass, outdated building, or bus them to PG county for an education. I don't care.

2. How does what happens to my cousin in Gainesville make this "what it is all about"? Again, that example doesn't affect my life at all. FYI - I grew up in Vienna and went to the same elementary school, the same middle school and the same high school. So I can appreciate wanting stability for one's child.

3. I know just enough about construction and based upon the age of the existing school, it's probably cheaper to tear it down than to build a new one. I've seen schools done both ways and renovating an outdated existing school is generally much more expensive.

4. My first posts in this thread were related to the asbestos scaremongering. I was backing up some anon post about the safety of building the new school. In a previous job, I actually had to deal with that natural occurring stuff and have seen a lot of data that indicates that you do not have plumes of asbestos fibers wafting off site into unsuspecting areas. Go look at the Health Department's website about their requirements to ensure safety. Most of the people bringing up this issue are not correct and haven't fully done the research.

5. The amount of whining and crying in this thread is unbelievable. It's the whole "not in my backyard" syndrome. Things that we don't like happen all of the time. Get over it. You'll probably get a new school, with nice new fields, gymnasiums, cafeterias, fire suppression systems, and 50" plasma smartboards for all of your gifted children learn from. If you beat FCPS on this issue, they don't build the school, Clifton ES burns down and some children are injured (or worse), you're the same people that are going to be suing FCPS about "how could you let this happen". Or they'll renovate the school at a higher cost and you'll be bitching about you taxes. Whatever. Keep up with your snobby McLean-like attitudes.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

imonlsd:
You must have learned math at a big box school with 3500 sq ft media centers and smart boards.

Taking the "GOLD STANDARD" Dr. Raney described (his words) the SB has put into the EdSpecs that we cannot afford as a County to maintain, if you take the HIGHEST (read: ridiculously overestimated to make it look really bad) of FCPS' own numbers...

$11,009,544/312 (renovating for a new reduced capacity)
Staff's completely made up projected enrollment has their plan REDUCING the size of the school - didn't this whole thing start to solve overcrowding? But I digress...
$35,287/student - remember includes Gold standard renovations of the highest order + stupidly made up enrollment projections

/366 (LOWEST NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN LAST 15+ YEARS)
$30,080.72 - still Gold standard + perfectly reasonable projection

/374 (number students now)
$29,437.28 - still Gold standard + REALITY re: # students

so...WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Oh yeah - and you can automatically take $300+K off the table since Dazzling Dean made sure not to release the new water study until after the meeting began...indicating water is fine.

$10,707,144/374 = $28,629 STILL Gold standard and doesn't even pull out soft costs rolled in for well + REALITY

Other recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508 $20,436 $23,422 $23,854

So we are at worst, a few thousand bucks off? This is absurd.

Wait...toss the Gold standard and go with Silver...
$7,657,722/374 = $20,475

Don't look now, but that's $2,330 LESS THAN THE AVERAGE RENOVATION!!!

FINAL STAFF REPORT:
"There is no question that the school as it is currently configured is functional from an educational perspective"
(but they go with how they want to add Gold standard anyway...)

Warhawk:
If you think that a School Board which conducts its affairs in a derelict and dilatory manner 'doesn't affect you at all' you are part of the problem.
I am loathe to quote such a confounded liberal as O'Neill, but 'all politics is local' - your 'representatives' of the School Board have $2.2 BILLION of your money...53.5% of Fairfax County's entire countywide budget...plus another $1 BILLION in federal subsidies, supplementals for a total of $3.2B.

Just a little perspective, that's about the global operating budget of Target, buddy. And more than $1B over their net income.

If you still happen to be paying attention, the School Board is about to place 30 schools into a "turnaround" program and engage UVA to put the worst 20 into a Darden intervention effort. Another 11 didn't get a "bottom 30" slot. That's 41 schools.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/fairfax-county-public-schools/fairfax-county-slashing-summer.html
Read this - and ask how many Gatehouse positions were eliminated? Did Dales start paying for his own car and health insurance? What about his perks? But the poor kids are going to fall behind because there isn't enough money to run summer school?

Cuts in FCPS with projected escalating numbers in student populations?
130 core high school teachers
80 core middle school teachers
234 core elementary teachers
14 librarian positions
32 special education position
12 career transition positions for special-needs students

This is serious fiduciary malfeasance.

Could be that Warhawk will pay attention to this, since one of the schools deemed in need of serious intervention is Cunningham Park in the "above it all" town of Vienna.

real Clifton wants to make us believe that we have Mayberry in our backyard. I may have been born at night, but not last night and Clifton is not some throwback town that time forgot that still somehow lives in the 18th century. These kids go to school with mine at Centreville and Robinson and they have the same cell phones, cars, vacations and clothes as everyone else.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>Do you
> think the elected officials enjoyed doing this? Or
> that they did it for shits and giggles? They did
> this to save taxpayer dollars. When government
> cuts spending, someone has to lose. I commend them
> for having the courage of doing it instead of
> sticking with the status quo and letting the
> budget get out of hand. Did anyone at these
> meetings go up to the elected officials and offer
> to pay more property taxes to keep the school
> open?


Courage. Not letting the budget get out of hand. More shits and giggles. Just last year the School Board wanted to spend $130 million on another Admin building for themselves (Gatehouse II) with a floor-to-ceiling granite lobby, a state-of-the-art fitness center, an on-site cafeteria with outdoor seating BUT THE COUNTY SUPERVISORS shut the idea down because the County faced a $650 million shortfall. BOE were willing to spend $130 million on themselves but not willing to spend less than $11,000 a year later to renovate a school for 400 students. Perhaps you should be more informed on what your elected officials are really doing.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/SharpSticks/BREAKING-NEWS-Supervisors-just-say-no-to-Gatehouse--40115392.html

I can't wait to see which elementary schools these kids get bused into (or what the boundary changes are when these kids get displaced and other high scoring kids further out get bused to new elementary schools---sort of a "pinball effect"). The test scores for Clifton kids are probably the highest in the county (if not close to highest). These kids (or kids affected by these kids' displacements) will be an asset to any school that is struggling to make AYP or close to losing AYP (which may be the case at some). This closing has a lot to do with other things that are not being stated (money is definitely not the issue---especially given that parents were willing to go without renovation and "gold standard" items). It's about saving the "behinds" of the board who don't want to have "failing schools" on their watches. Think about how much the whole boundary study is going to cost (nobody is talking about that).

The board did not listen to the local people there in Clifton---they apparently have no say in how their school is run. It's a sad day in America when local control is taken away. As soon as this starts happening, all the schools will lose out. This is not about redistricting because there are too many new houses with kids or a sudden drop in numbers of kids (the "Gainesville" type of changes). This is a very stable and old community that has had little housing change. This is about social engineering. We have social problems that are afflicting the schools and we need to spread them around. We can't solve those problems---so we have to make it look like we don't have them. Watch out for more people asking for vouchers for private schools.

America used to be about communities----now it's about big power centers, big money, etc. Clifton people apparently are not as rich as some on this forum think. They will be asking for vouchers or at least lower taxes if they send their kids to private schools or home school. It's coming to Fairfax people.

“People spent thousands upon thousands of hours researching and giving [the school board] information; they ignored most of it,” ,,,,,,amounts to “bringing out a nuclear weapon for a small problem.”

Does this sound familiar to what just happened to Clifton? Read this:
http://www.examiner.com/a-1313181~Opponents_of_redistricting_sue_Fairfax_County_School_Board.html

Next on the agenda -- Southwestern Boundary Study. Citizens are going to spend hundreds of hours wasting their time on that process too. If you can't see by now that they already know what they want to do than you are a fools.

Thanks for the article. People in other parts of the county think this is not about them---but it is. The school board are puppets of Dr. Dale. They do not have the spine to question him and do their jobs. And they just gave him another 4 year contract. Unbelievable.

The posts presenting the facts and figures have obviously done research about this and should realize the idiots presenting opposing views are probably FCPS tools or SB plants (probably Bradsher herself). From what I understand, the Clifton families told the SB that they were willing to go without renovation (so much for the entitlement accusation). Seems that no renovation would save all the taxpayers dollars so let's take that argument off the table.

After reading the outrageously snobby posts coming from those alleging to be Clifton parents, I hope they tear down the old school and turn it into a sewage treatment plant. I wonder if their children will grow up to be as stuck up as they are. Maybe not, now that they'll have to integrate with the "rest" of the county.

They sound awfully racist, are they afraid their urchin may buddy up with a child named Juan, or have a childhood crush on an innocent girl from Venezuela named Adela?

Meanwhile, I didn't see anything on the news about Clifton residents picketing outside the government center. They didn't care enough to get off their asses and create a media event out of it? It is almost as if they are too stuck up to defend themselves sensibly. Ah well, you should have done more and now it is too late.

Let us get one thing straight. Just a small portion of the school was built in 1953. The vast majority of the school was completed in 1983 when it was expanded and renovated. $19 million for a modern renovation? Really? Those are some expensive sprinklers! As for the water, many local business stated that they would donate drinking water for years to come. An above ground water tank would also do just fine.

I'm reading that the school's enrollment would decline to just 300 students in the next few years.

I wonder if the residents would have been happy with an alternate plan that would have bussed in 300 students from the South Lakes area to utilize the under-utilization and ease any overcrowding in other county areas. The sites I'm reading about saving the school tout the "small school" setting and how the residents of Clifton love it. I would too if I could get a nice small school on public dime and they have enjoyed that for decades, but the student population looks like it has declined to levels where it just isn't justified.

Residents should consider getting together and buying the school, each owning a share of a for-profit charter school and gradually make money back through tuition payments over the next few decades. Team up with Goddard School or some other private education organization that has experience, buy the property, and pay them to manage it. Send the kids there and be done with the county.

Or better yet, have the community foot half the renovation cost. You really want it? Have each family kick in $15k. That really shouldn't be a hardship for that area of the county.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2010 12:26PM by pgens.

real Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let us get one thing straight. Just a small
> portion of the school was built in 1953. The vast
> majority of the school was completed in 1983 when
> it was expanded and renovated. $19 million for a
> modern renovation? Really? Those are some
> expensive sprinklers! As for the water, many
> local business stated that they would donate
> drinking water for years to come. An above ground
> water tank would also do just fine.

Jack Dale and the entire school board need to close all unsafe schools that do not have sprinkler system.

Unsafe is unsafe. How many does liz have in her district?

Fairfax Taxpayer:

I don't think this has anything to do with Juan or Adela. I love Juan and Adela. I would love my child to marry Juan or Adela (my grandkids could be bilingual).

What I don't love is politicians doing one thing when they say they are doing another (dishonesty). I think I deserve the truth if I am paying taxes. Otherwise, forget the taxes. Or forget the politicians and this whole lousy system. Either the school board has no idea what they are doing (where are the answers?) or they are playing us for fools (I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which).

By the way, my child is Hispanic (adopted). I am white.

This area has no more snobby people than anywhere else. Bringing up a racism claim is absurd as you have no idea what the people in this area are like. You obviously didn't attend the SB Public Hearing or Regular Session if you believe people didn't care enough in having their voice be heard. The majority of the SB weren't listening as they listen only to FCPS staff.

Fairfax Taxpayer:

Maybe I am "snobby" and my kid is "stuck up" (he happens to be out volunteering right now)---BUT---what do you call the school board? I guess it would be nicer to just say "arrogant"?

I don't even live in the Clifton area by the way---I just believe in democracy (what a concept).

Prohibition didn't work.

real Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
WTL brought up "Little Johnny". Well let me tell
> you a little something about "Little Johnny".
> He is much more rugged and tough compared to the
> vast majority of Fairfax County youth. You see
> John has a lot of land to help his family take
> care of. He gets up at the crack of dawn before
> school to muck stalls, feed, water, and take care
> of the horses. Of course this and other chores
> need to be done after school as well.
> Here it is in the summer time and John isn't
> playing video games and watching MTV like his more
> delicate FFX County counterparts. He's out mowing
> the 5 to 10 acre fields, cutting back brush,
> mending/painting fences, weeding the family
> garden, picking vegetables and fruit, cutting up
> wood, and conducting the many other tasks
> associated with living the rural life style.
> When not working, you may find John and his
> friends camping, swimming in the stream, exploring
> the woods, or fishing the old farm pond to catch
> dinner.
> I understand that some local kids on a farm just
> outside of town make a few extra bucks selling
> fresh eggs to the Clifton Store. This is what
> growing up Clifton is all about and this work
> ethic is why these kids succeed ... more so than
> others.


FYI my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am to swim for an hour and a half before school everyday, takes his AP classes, goes to scouts, etc. then coaches two nights a week. In the summer my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am to swim for 2 hours, goes to work every day, mows our lawn, does his chores, volunteers for the neighborhood and scouts, etc.
Just because we don't live in your lovely little Clifton doesn't mean us "city folks" are delicate. Get off your high horse (pun intended) and get into reality.

Fairfax Taxpayer wrote:
"...outrageously snobby posts coming from those alleging to be Clifton parents, I hope they tear down the old school and turn it into a sewage treatment plant. I wonder if their children will grow up to be as stuck up as they are. Maybe not, now that they'll have to integrate with the "rest" of the county.

They sound awfully racist, are they afraid their urchin may buddy up with a child named Juan, or have a childhood crush on an innocent girl from Venezuela named Adela?"


Is this the best you are able to articulate? Which posts were outrageously snobby? Which ones were racist? Should the County really assume the cost to rip down a functioning building and build a waste treatment facility above the town?
Rhetorical questions these, obviously - the bizarre nature of your reference to an innocent girl from Venezuela has no merit whatsoever. The random flak approach to throw every possible issue up as a smokescreen is typical modus operandi for the SWRPC and FCPS Board, thus you are most certainly are a member of one or the other.

Those incapable of intellectual discourse result to such inarticulate means of debating - caged primates often develop abnormal personalities, exhibiting anti-social behavior such as frequently repeated auto-stimulation patterns, avoidance of social contact, throwing feces at tourists and regurgitation and eating of their own vomit...looks like caging of FCPS at Gatehouse is yielding the human equivalent...spewing and eating your own vomit amongst yourselves, avoiding social contact with those functioning in reality and throwing your crap at taxpayers to as a measure of your discontent with those revealing the truth to the rest of the world outside you who wallow in self-imposed captivity.

Note to new forum members from Clifton: don't feed the troll posts. Most of them are fakes trying to get a rise out of you. The BS lecture on crazy monkeys makes it worth it to them. They'll next ask why you brought up monkeys as your example.

MollyCorbin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Those incapable of intellectual discourse result
> to such inarticulate means of debating - caged
> primates often develop abnormal personalities,
> exhibiting anti-social behavior such as frequently
> repeated auto-stimulation patterns, avoidance of
> social contact, throwing feces at tourists and
> regurgitation and eating of their own
> vomit...looks like caging of FCPS at Gatehouse is
> yielding the human equivalent...spewing and eating
> your own vomit amongst yourselves, avoiding social
> contact with those functioning in reality and
> throwing your crap at taxpayers to as a measure of
> your discontent with those revealing the truth to
> the rest of the world outside you who wallow in
> self-imposed captivity.


why the hell are you bringing up primates as an example? usually when someone compares another human being to a monkey it is because of a deliberate racial undertone. if I was black I would be greatly offended by your racist and backwards way of looking at life. I though NOVA was free of rednecks, I guess I'm wrong.

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I deserve the truth if I am paying taxes.

YOU DON"T WANT THE TRUTH, YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> By the way, my child is Hispanic (adopted). I am
> white.

Well, aren't you special.

If the school is closed after the 2010-11 school year what will become of the closed building?

Will it be sold? Converted to administrative offices?

Years back, Edsall Park Elem was closed and then used for administrative offices and then just recently, a costly renovation took place so it could be used as adult education center.

If we have money to renovate a building for adult education, why the hell don't we have money to spend on a fully enrolled elementary school?

I think it is time to take a looksie at the CIP-past and present and see how wisely the money is being spent.

Jack D:

No, I'm not special. But clearly you are Mr. Dale.

Fairfax Taxpayer:

If I didn't want my "Johnny" sitting next to Juan or Adela, I would put him in the GT program (most kids get in there on appeals anyhow---not because they scored high on a test like they want you to think). I don't think that program (and TJ for that matter) has a lot of Juans and Adelas. Maybe we should also call those parents "snobby" and their kids "stuck up".

For that matter, maybe we should do away with honors classes, AP and IB because those are probably populated with "stuck up" kids who are not ogling Adela and dreamy eyed over Juan.

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait to see which elementary schools these
> kids get bused into (or what the boundary changes
> are when these kids get displaced and other high
> scoring kids further out get bused to new
> elementary schools---sort of a "pinball effect").
> The test scores for Clifton kids are probably the
> highest in the county (if not close to highest).
> These kids (or kids affected by these kids'
> displacements) will be an asset to any school that
> is struggling to make AYP or close to losing AYP
> (which may be the case at some). This closing has
> a lot to do with other things that are not being
> stated (money is definitely not the
> issue---especially given that parents were willing
> to go without renovation and "gold standard"
> items). It's about saving the "behinds" of the
> board who don't want to have "failing schools" on
> their watches. Think about how much the whole
> boundary study is going to cost (nobody is talking
> about that).
>
For a school to make AYP, it must meet or exceed achievement benchmarks in English and mathematics. Here are where the facts are on all the schools included in the Southwestern Regional Planning study.
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/

These are the schools out of that study that have problems:

Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2009-2010.
London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010
Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010 but failed AYP the two prior years.
Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in 2009-2010.

If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually FCPS has to put forth a restructuring plan.

By closing Clifton, they will create overcrowding where there was supposedly none and we have seen how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth the Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was also the main driver to build South County Middle. Do you think she won’t come back again to push for a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets re-elected or even before then? Do you think that the closure of Clifton might just have been in the grand scale of things to justify building a new school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill into eventual acceptance…..

hsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> real Clifton Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> WTL brought up "Little Johnny". Well let me
> tell
> > you a little something about "Little Johnny".
> > He is much more rugged and tough compared to
> the
> > vast majority of Fairfax County youth. You see
> > John has a lot of land to help his family take
> > care of. He gets up at the crack of dawn
> before
> > school to muck stalls, feed, water, and take
> care
> > of the horses. Of course this and other chores
> > need to be done after school as well.
> > Here it is in the summer time and John isn't
> > playing video games and watching MTV like his
> more
> > delicate FFX County counterparts. He's out
> mowing
> > the 5 to 10 acre fields, cutting back brush,
> > mending/painting fences, weeding the family
> > garden, picking vegetables and fruit, cutting
> up
> > wood, and conducting the many other tasks
> > associated with living the rural life style.
> > When not working, you may find John and his
> > friends camping, swimming in the stream,
> exploring
> > the woods, or fishing the old farm pond to
> catch
> > dinner.
> > I understand that some local kids on a farm
> just
> > outside of town make a few extra bucks selling
> > fresh eggs to the Clifton Store. This is what
> > growing up Clifton is all about and this work
> > ethic is why these kids succeed ... more so
> than
> > others.
>
>
> FYI my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am to
> swim for an hour and a half before school
> everyday, takes his AP classes, goes to scouts,
> etc. then coaches two nights a week. In the
> summer my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am
> to swim for 2 hours, goes to work every day, mows
> our lawn, does his chores, volunteers for the
> neighborhood and scouts, etc.
> Just because we don't live in your lovely little
> Clifton doesn't mean us "city folks" are delicate.
> Get off your high horse (pun intended) and get
> into reality.


Sounds like Joey is in HS whereas "little Johnny" is still at Clifton ES. It appears that John however could work circles around "little Joey". What; he gets up early so he can play in the indoor/chlorinated pool before school? And he does this in the summer as well? IMPRESSIVE!
I just hope the 15 minutes that it takes to mow the lawn doesn't tucker the poor little fellow out. Let's face it, tending to the farm in Clifton can not compare to the ease of the meager upkeep needed on your subdivision lot.
Clifton living, it's not a easy life, but it is a good one!

"The public deserves an accountable boundary process. A process that is well defined with ranked criteria and addresses the issue of "ownership," perception, proximity, as well as community history. To refrain from addressing these issues is selling the public short. I don't think the public/parents of this county deserve that, do you?

Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
Fairfax Station"

Than why Liz, with Clifton's community history and proximity, did you sell Clifton short? Other Board Members suggested a boundary study before a decision was made. What happened to that? WHO are you -- REALLY??!!!

http://65.55.75.215/att/GetAttachment.aspx?file=279df159-0112-480e-94d8-b80ed4edc956.htm&ct=dGV4dC9odG1s&name=YXJ0aWNsZS5odG0_3d&inline=0&rfc=0∅=False&imgsrc=&msgHash=ffffffffffffffff&shared=1&hm__login=cemail_219&hm__domain=hotmail.com&ip=10.13.214.8&d=d3452&mf=0&hm__ts=Tue%2c%2013%20Jul%202010%2020%3a06%3a35%20GMT&sc=2ZAx3YMTuAVn7Jv3Ewyp9bzPMXtlsbigTdI9eoVOzxPKxJBH%2aha7dHA3tqu732sjRoA9hV37hdY0DRyCuDv9eM4hkdVFkxscBggkiy%21XTb080YzT9dzzeWEdmd4Vp73f2IqHDWp8rv9e5J30LWzfHCiKiKg2RT2vOncBWo1JrJbv839z5UKV5eqHWvonofSy05GRbsor6wXlbxiwAJgJT2lpsYE0hzVSgD99w1E5dq4t2LbBnhIdFm9fcqLlmKnkWA7fmj8VoQ8Q0yp4rejsS8GN0lkoBEaf%2aUSe86CqQh%2aXuLzyvg3FasGCeN%2aHo85UtLEZDQoqMyNk4%24&hm__ha=01_4f40fc031d877baf7e937db850d8b2c2f252e94fe693c0296a2161de99ce544b&oneredir=1

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imonlsd:
> You must have learned math at a big box school
> with 3500 sq ft media centers and smart boards.
>
> Taking the "GOLD STANDARD" Dr. Raney described
> (his words) the SB has put into the EdSpecs that
> we cannot afford as a County to maintain, if you
> take the HIGHEST (read: ridiculously overestimated
> to make it look really bad) of FCPS' own
> numbers...
>
> $11,009,544/312 (renovating for a new reduced
> capacity)
> Staff's completely made up projected enrollment
> has their plan REDUCING the size of the school -
> didn't this whole thing start to solve
> overcrowding? But I digress...
> $35,287/student - remember includes Gold standard
> renovations of the highest order + stupidly made
> up enrollment projections
>
> /366 (LOWEST NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN LAST 15+
> YEARS)
> $30,080.72 - still Gold standard + perfectly
> reasonable projection
>
> /374 (number students now)
> $29,437.28 - still Gold standard + REALITY re: #
> students
>
> so...WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
>
> Oh yeah - and you can automatically take $300+K
> off the table since Dazzling Dean made sure not to
> release the new water study until after the
> meeting began...indicating water is fine.
>
> $10,707,144/374 = $28,629 STILL Gold standard and
> doesn't even pull out soft costs rolled in for
> well + REALITY
>
> Other recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508
> $20,436 $23,422 $23,854
>
> So we are at worst, a few thousand bucks off? This
> is absurd.
>
> Wait...toss the Gold standard and go with
> Silver...
> $7,657,722/374 = $20,475
>
> Don't look now, but that's $2,330 LESS THAN THE
> AVERAGE RENOVATION!!!
>
> FINAL STAFF REPORT:
> "There is no question that the school as it is
> currently configured is functional from an
> educational perspective"
> (but they go with how they want to add Gold
> standard anyway...)

I assume you learned reading comprehension at a shit school like Clifton. You are pulling numbers out of your ass, the county will be doing the renovations, not you, so I am going with what the county says renovations will be. Based on the number of students, the cost per student will be more. A new school will be more energy efficient than an old school.

And if they turn the building into adult education that would bring the rabble in. I'm starting to get now why the closure was so opposed, mostly by people who don't have kids in the school.

hello - I don't live in Clifton, but I think you are dead wrong about the numbers. UVA just released their projections - FC is getting 13,000 more students in the next 5 years. Their track record is way better than the school board's record. Is your name Stu Pid Gibson?

NoToLiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The public deserves an accountable boundary
> process. A process that is well defined with
> ranked criteria and addresses the issue of
> "ownership," perception, proximity, as well as
> community history. To refrain from addressing
> these issues is selling the public short. I don't
> think the public/parents of this county deserve
> that, do you?
>
> Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
> Fairfax Station"
>
> Than why Liz, with Clifton's community history and
> proximity, did you sell Clifton short? Other
> Board Members suggested a boundary study before a
> decision was made. What happened to that? WHO
> are you -- REALLY??!!!
>
The quote from Liz Bradsher (above) was from a Letter to the Editor that Mrs. Bradsher wrote called "Who Owns the Schools?" which was in the Springfield Connection in 2006.

The numbers provided above are ALL FCPS created numbers - NONE are made up, from orifices or otherwise.

The $10.7M - FCPS # 'GOLD' Standard definition per Dr. Raney, 7/8/10
The $7.6M - FCPS # middle renovation quote based on making school smaller - max. 312 students, also an FCPS # (though I agree with you - that one IS patently made up, just not by me but by FCPS)
366 students - FCPS # lowest number enrolled in over 15 years
The recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508 $20,436 $23,422 $23,854
FCPS #s for:
Stenwood ES, Westlawn ES, Franconia ES, Beech Tree ES for respective dates 1/21/2010, 2/24/2010, 3/3/2010, 3/24/2010
with an FCPS # average renovation cost per student of $22,805

So I do believe you may have my posterior confused with Smith's or Gibson's or Bradsher's or Tistadt's...but those numbers are all FCPS, so own them.

Stinks when someone who actually knows how to do an analysis looks at your own product and can refute the smoke and mirror game, huh?

And the truth shall be revealed.

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The numbers provided above are ALL FCPS created
> numbers - NONE are made up, from orifices or
> otherwise.
>
> The $10.7M - FCPS # 'GOLD' Standard definition per
> Dr. Raney, 7/8/10
> The $7.6M - FCPS # middle renovation quote based
> on making school smaller - max. 312 students, also
> an FCPS # (though I agree with you - that one IS
> patently made up, just not by me but by FCPS)
> 366 students - FCPS # lowest number enrolled in
> over 15 years
> The recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508 $20,436
> $23,422 $23,854
> FCPS #s for:
> Stenwood ES, Westlawn ES, Franconia ES, Beech Tree
> ES for respective dates 1/21/2010, 2/24/2010,
> 3/3/2010, 3/24/2010
> with an FCPS # average renovation cost per student
> of $22,805
>
> So I do believe you may have my posterior confused
> with Smith's or Gibson's or Bradsher's or
> Tistadt's...but those numbers are all FCPS, so own
> them.
>
> Stinks when someone who actually knows how to do
> an analysis looks at your own product and can
> refute the smoke and mirror game, huh?
>
> And the truth shall be revealed.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=341784&paper=62&cat=104

The school system has estimated that the cost closing Clifton, building a new school on the Liberty campus and constructing additions at other schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall. To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity issues in western Fairfax would cost more, approximately $21.5 million, according to a presentation given to the School Board June 10.

Unless you can specifically cite your info, I call b.s.

And by cite, I mean a website saying that.

NotoLiz

Hey - good one.

FU version of a retweet:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=280209&paper=72&cat=110

"..how does one define the community served by a particular school?
To many, the answer to such a question would seem obvious and the typical response would resemble something like this: "We live in the community of Orange Hunt therefore our children should attend Orange Hunt Elementary." This answer would no doubt be the same for parents throughout the county when pertaining to their neighborhood elementary school. With respect to an elementary school, the sense of ownership is almost subliminal. So obvious it is beyond question. The defined area or community served by the elementary school is also, in most instances quite clear. To many parents of elementary school aged children there is little room for argument regarding "ownership."
Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
Fairfax Station"

Fairfax County and specifically, Clifton and Fairfax Station, could not agree with you more Ms. Bradsher - never thought the day would come when we did agree with you...only thing, that day was Thursday, March 30, 2006. Too bad you have sold out every value and scrap of integrity you were holding Stu Gibson to in this article. You have been co-opted by the man.

pgens:

One family did come forward - before the well was proved to be fine last week - and offer to pay to fix or drill a new one.
Liz's response = no can do.

Seems like there is nothing on earth - money from feds, money from community, historic preservation, take it off the queue, build an addition to add more kids, wait to see if enrollment really declines, do modest renovations, do a boundary study FIRST...nothing - no reasonable, no achievable solution will be accepted by Liz. None.

So...you have to ask yourself, it money won't change her mind, getting WSHS moved up in the queue won't change her mind, adding more kids won't change her mind, waiting to see if enrollment won't change her mind...then what is really wrong? There is no proposal or offer of help that she hasn't rebuffed - dogged refusal to listen to reason, facts, alternatives, option, experts, preservation agencies, community requests to retain its 141 year anchor - means there is an ulterior motive. There is no other explanation. Her own words in that above article convict her.

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens:
>
> One family did come forward - before the well was
> proved to be fine last week - and offer to pay to
> fix or drill a new one.
> Liz's response = no can do.

Finally something interesting. Im sure Liz turned it down due to some regulation or insurance policy, but if someone offered to make such a large donation and was ignored then you might have a case against her.

real Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sounds like Joey is in HS whereas "little Johnny"
> is still at Clifton ES. It appears that John
> however could work circles around "little Joey".
> What; he gets up early so he can play in the
> indoor/chlorinated pool before school? And he does
> this in the summer as well? IMPRESSIVE!
> I just hope the 15 minutes that it takes to mow
> the lawn doesn't tucker the poor little fellow
> out. Let's face it, tending to the farm in
> Clifton can not compare to the ease of the meager
> upkeep needed on your subdivision lot.
> Clifton living, it's not a easy life, but it is a
> good one!

More elitist crap from a KKKliftonite. Closing that run down school will save money and most of the county is glad the board had the guts to stand up to you and your minions, in spite of the possibility of losing the next election. That was a great display of courage, especially on the part of Ms. Bradsher, doing the right thing knowing the wrath she would face from the self entitled in Clifton.

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Seems like there is nothing on earth - money from
> feds, money from community, historic preservation,
> take it off the queue, build an addition to add
> more kids, wait to see if enrollment really
> declines, do modest renovations, do a boundary
> study FIRST...nothing - no reasonable, no
> achievable solution will be accepted by Liz. None.
>
>
> So...you have to ask yourself, it money won't
> change her mind, getting WSHS moved up in the
> queue won't change her mind, adding more kids
> won't change her mind, waiting to see if
> enrollment won't change her mind...then what is
> really wrong? There is no proposal or offer of
> help that she hasn't rebuffed - dogged refusal to
> listen to reason, facts, alternatives, option,
> experts, preservation agencies, community requests
> to retain its 141 year anchor - means there is an
> ulterior motive. There is no other explanation.
> Her own words in that above article convict her.

You are truly deluded.

I am sick and tired of all these baseless accusations made of these wonderful School Board members that God has blessed us with.

These folks are ALWAYS doing the right thing, being fiscally responsible and putting the interests of our kids first. So, quit the criticizing-I wish we had more like these people running our county government. Imagine how much money we would save!!

Some examples:

Our CIP is a mess-we have no money, schools have waited nearly 50 years for renovations, but these members voted just last year to buy and renovate a fancy office building at Gatehouse II for their staff. They said the $120 million purchase would have saved us tons of money! Thankfully the BOS said hell no!

On both the 2005 and 2007 bond referendum, they asked the taxpayers for $2,000,000 for planning money to renovate Clifton Elem. The taxpayers agreed and voted YES! Now what? Why can't the money be set aside for the well problem?
Good planning on their part.

Times are tough we have no money to waste, so let's review the 2009 bond referendum.

$50,000,000 for a bus facility
Funds for overrun costs $38,600,000-due to delays??
South County MS $50,000,000-cut in line-how many empty seats are at neighboring schools? 300? 400? 500?
Modular Relocation Money $9,750,000-woops, we put them at the wrong school!
Full Day Kindergarten $4,000,000!!!! Huh? You have a $2.2 billion budget and you need to stick a program cost on a bond referendum??

So, quit the hating guys. We needs these lunkheads running our school district. Especially the old-timers like Strauss,Wilson, Gibson, Smith, Storck and Center. Imagine the damage they can do if we elect them agin in 2011??

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens:
>
> One family did come forward - before the well was
> proved to be fine last week - and offer to pay to
> fix or drill a new one.
> Liz's response = no can do.

I am sure there were reasons, but I agree that if private citizens are willing to pony up money (and it is a serious, in-writing offer) then there should be further discussion.

I doubt that school board decision is the last word if you don't want it to be, lawyers can get that tied up I'm guessing.

Look at "The Liz Whisperer" picture that somebody over on the "Tessie Wilson Retiring from School Board" thread posted. Very, very funny!!!!!

CliftonRed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The woman's name is Liz Bradsher not Bradshaw. I
> made a mistake with the spelling. Anyhow, she is
> the woman who betrayed her community and voted for
> Clifton Elementary to close.

Stand in line because there was already a thread called 'Liz Bradsher Has Forgotten Her Roots' even before Clifton got closed. Go take a look see.

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The utter shock of folks not getting what they
> wanted for once is quite telling in these Clifton
> threads. It does make one wonder what the fear is
> with losing this school. Clifton isn't diverse,
> and I do think WTL may be on target with his
> assertion.
>
> Census: The racial makeup of the town was 98.92%
> white, 0.54% Asian, 0.54% from other races.
> Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.54% of the
> population.

Your census figures must be from the town of Clifton, not the school district. According to the school profile, the CES school body is 80% white, 20% non-white. Not very different from the surrounding schools that will end up absorbing the Clifton students. Fairview, Sangster, Union Mill, etc., are all about 70 percent non-hispanic white; hardly hot-beds of diversity.

So whatever it is Clifton parents "fear" .... I don't think race has much to do with it. Might it be....losing their community school? As Liz Bradsher well knows, parents in FFx value their neighborhood schools. She certainly fought hard enough for her own.

imonsld:

Your lack of knowledge is growing tiresome. Every single number is FCPS generated (bona fide or not).
Here you go - page 17, Final Staff Report.

KeepOnTruckin:
Yes, Mommylion is correct. While they were unable to donate it gratis, they could have 'sold' it for the sum of $1 (value, consideration et al); but this was another case of the SB refusing any plausible solution. Persistent obstinance and relentless pursuit to close the school. What a shame the SB didn't consider placing a fraction of the effort to the mission of keeping it open. Would have been over long ago and many satisfied parties.

The individual who signs up with many different names and keeps hurling all the bogus racial insinuations, give it a rest. No one is buying it (Little Miss Bradsher maybe?). Your one person campaign will not sully the reputation of thousands of people and a decent community.
Attachments:

Oye,
Sorry - not sure why that posted so large - ironic...matches FCPS' inflated figures?
The $7.6M midrange includes much in the way of well expenses...have we seen the mystery new well report Tistadt release during the vote and referenced saying water is fine?
The $ total keeps going down...

Hey all about savings:

Wasn't GateCastle II more like $180M?

But they can't find EDA bond $ to the tune of $7M for Clifton's school at 98% and a top performer?
Instead of fixing CIP and more, the energy was dumped into a year and categorically wasting another, what, $1-$2M maybe to find a way to shutter it?
Anti-Tax:
Yes, it was a total waste because now there is no plan to build at Liberty - if the SWRPC was such a super engagement process and valuable effort why has the major portion been tossed aside? You know, the part that solves overcrowding?
That the community had to educate the staff on the liabilities of the site is just sad.

Last one - since we are enjoying Math class.
Attachments:

NotLiz:

I didn't believe it when I saw the quote...went and pulled it. There must be another Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher in Fairfax Station, because this is her good twin...not the one we know. What happened to this Liz - her I'll take - the other, not so much. It is especially great how she drags Gibson over the coals...party like its 2006, Liz!

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=280209&paper=72&cat=110
Who Owns the Schools?
Letter to the Editor
Thursday, March 30, 2006
To the Editor:
I have watched and read with interest the West Springfield High School (WSHS) boundary debate. As most of the Connection readers know, the WSHS Boundary Study ended on Feb. 23 with no change taking place to the current boundary.
Whether I agree with the School Board decision regarding WSHS is of little matter. What I found of interest were the various comments made by the members of the School Board during the study and vote. One such comment came from School Board member Mr. Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill District) during the Feb. 13 School Board Work Session. He questioned his fellow members on the board asking whether a community has ownership of a particular school? A corollary to this question is how does one define the community served by a particular school?
To many, the answer to such a question would seem obvious and the typical response would resemble something like this: "We live in the community of Orange Hunt therefore our children should attend Orange Hunt Elementary." This answer would no doubt be the same for parents throughout the county when pertaining to their neighborhood elementary school. With respect to an elementary school, the sense of ownership is almost subliminal. So obvious it is beyond question. The defined area or community served by the elementary school is also, in most instances quite clear. To many parents of elementary school aged children there is little room for argument regarding "ownership."
The issue however is not so black and white when it comes to schools with special programs, high schools, or even for that matter, middle schools. High schools, secondary schools and middle schools are comprised of students from varied and sometimes distant communities. This is the same for elementary schools with special programs such as those for GT and Special Needs students. These schools have students who live great distances from their school. The ownership issue and answer to Mr. Gibson's initial question is now not so easily answered. Nor is the question of community so easily defined.
Where the ownership debate will go I have no idea, but the question as well as the current perception of "school ownership" looms for the South County and Westfield communities because these communities have been recommended for future boundary studies. Comments from a Washington Post blog on the WSHS Boundary Study indicate parents, for the most part, do indeed perceive they have ownership of their high school. I suspect there are many parents in the county with the same sense of ownership when it comes to their child's school.
The School Board and the FCPS system must come to terms with the definition of what is a "community school" and "ownership of one's school." It appears the public, the School Board and school system all differ with respect to the basic philosophical definitions as well as the perceptions of these two terms. The public deserves an accountable boundary process. A process that is well defined with ranked criteria and addresses the issue of "ownership," perception, proximity, as well as community history. To refrain from addressing these issues is selling the public short. I don't think the public/parents of this county deserve that, do you?

Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
Fairfax Station

SayWHAT? pic from another thread - that's more like it.
Again what happened to the "other" Liz???
Attachments:

Interesting comparisons when you look at the 2007 bond referendum and the actual bid costs coming in.

Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs $12,459,000
Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs $16,655,000
Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs $14,639,001
Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs $11,927,116

Looks like there is plenty of savings that can be used to take care of Clifton's water problems or at least accelerate the CIP.

Who is minding the candy store?

show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting comparisons when you look at the 2007
> bond referendum and the actual bid costs coming
> in.
>
> Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs $12,459,000
> Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs $16,655,000
> Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs $14,639,001
> Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs $11,927,116
>
> Looks like there is plenty of savings that can be
> used to take care of Clifton's water problems or
> at least accelerate the CIP.
>
> Who is minding the candy store?

Interesting - and what about Pimmit Hills closure? Didn't the voters pass a bond to renovate that school? However, wasn't there an article recently that said closing it would make it possible to shift the $6 million leftover from the bond money the voters voted for to other projects?

The Clifton community should embrace this opportunity by doing a top to bottom review of the CIP and how money is spent.

Pimmitt Hills renovation was on the 2007 bond-I doubt they actually borrowed the money yet, since they are still on 2005 items. As of Jan 2010 there was still $94 million from 2005 not authorized.

The law does not allow FCPS to replace one voter approved bond item with another. If the funds are not used for that specific purpose then they are forfeited.

Recent exceptions include, Graham Road renovation money shifted to their newly relocated school and the BRAC planning money which was shifted to SOCO Middle-a violation in my opinion that would not withstand a court challenge. BRAC was a scare tactic used by idiots like Dale and Storck to extort federal dollars. They ended up driving the ARMY to build in Alexandria because they were so rude and unappreciative. Typical stupid behavior for these nitwits.

Isn't that illegal for FCPS to use BRAC planning money specifically for SOCO Middle School?

This is all very interesting, money in motion. Thanks for telling us.

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> show me the money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Interesting comparisons when you look at the
> 2007
> > bond referendum and the actual bid costs coming
> > in.
> >
> > Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs
> $12,459,000
> > Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs
> $16,655,000
> > Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs
> $14,639,001
> > Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs
> $11,927,116
> >

Wait a minute. Franconia Elem. is in Brad Center's District. He voted to close Clifton because the renovation cost would be to high?? Then why was it okay to put out a bond for Franconia out for $18,500?

Yes, shifting the bRAC money to SOCO was a clear violation of the law and the public trust.

BRAC never amounted to a hill of beans and FCPS would be unable to relate any BRAC impact on SOCO construction.

That school isn't even needed right now. Chalk up another $50 million pissed away by the fiscal conservatives like Bradsher and Wilson.

Center is SO worried about lack of money, he got an artificial turf field for Lee High School at a cost of $750k.

Why would he want to get clean drinking water for the Clifton kids if he can spend it on a football field.

Center is afraid of Bradsher-they all make deals with the devil.

Center is two faced Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Center is SO worried about lack of money, he got
> an artificial turf field for Lee High School at a
> cost of $750k.
>
> Why would he want to get clean drinking water for
> the Clifton kids if he can spend it on a football
> field.
>
> Center is afraid of Bradsher-they all make deals
> with the devil.

Center has no balls.

BRAC $ to SOCO MIddle? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't that illegal for FCPS to use BRAC planning
> money specifically for SOCO Middle School?
>

Actually, no it is not illegal, since that is where the additional jobs and children will be from the Ft Belvoir expansion.

Are all of you people lacking basic intelligence, or is it just the vast majority? Is it the contaminated water?

(Those are rhetorical questions)

Stoopid_Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BRAC $ to SOCO MIddle? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Isn't that illegal for FCPS to use BRAC
> planning
> > money specifically for SOCO Middle School?
> >
>
> Actually, no it is not illegal, since that is
> where the additional jobs and children will be
> from the Ft Belvoir expansion.
>
> Are all of you people lacking basic intelligence,
> or is it just the vast majority? Is it the
> contaminated water?
>
> (Those are rhetorical questions)

Since you are so smart, you should be on the school board ass hole.

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NotoLiz
>
> Hey - good one.
>
> FU version of a retweet:
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=280209&paper=72&cat=110
>
> "..how does one define the community served by a
> particular school?
> To many, the answer to such a question would seem
> obvious and the typical response would resemble
> something like this: "We live in the community of
> Orange Hunt therefore our children should attend
> Orange Hunt Elementary." This answer would no
> doubt be the same for parents throughout the
> county when pertaining to their neighborhood
> elementary school. With respect to an elementary
> school, the sense of ownership is almost
> subliminal. So obvious it is beyond question. The
> defined area or community served by the elementary
> school is also, in most instances quite clear. To
> many parents of elementary school aged children
> there is little room for argument regarding
> "ownership."
> Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
> Fairfax Station"
>
> Fairfax County and specifically, Clifton and
> Fairfax Station, could not agree with you more Ms.
> Bradsher - never thought the day would come when
> we did agree with you...only thing, that day was
> Thursday, March 30, 2006. Too bad you have sold
> out every value and scrap of integrity you were
> holding Stu Gibson to in this article. You have
> been co-opted by the man.


Maybe most of the DEMS just knew better? This is out on the web under the Raising Kaine website. "Liz Bradsher's Conflicts of Interest"

http://www.raisingkaine.com/archive/9829.htm

To Mr. Stoopid: Is the new South County Middle School specifically for Fort Belvoir attendance area, or will it actually benefit the affluent communities nearby?

BRAC employees with children are free to choose where they live. Who statess these people will definitely choose to live within the attendance area for SOCO Middle School? Many of the BRAC folks already live here in Fairfax/Prince William County.

Langley HS is slated to have more construction/remodeling in 2014/2015. (Fairfax Times)

Interesting. They have never lacked for any funds bestowed on them from FCPS. West Springfield HS was not listed.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Interesting comparisons when you look at the
> > 2007
> > > bond referendum and the actual bid costs
> coming
> > > in.
> > >
> > > Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs
> > $12,459,000
> > > Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs
> > $16,655,000
> > > Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs
> > $14,639,001
> > > Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs
> > $11,927,116
> > >
>
> Wait a minute. Franconia Elem. is in Brad
> Center's District. He voted to close Clifton
> because the renovation cost would be to high??
> Then why was it okay to put out a bond for
> Franconia out for $18,500?

Stu Gibson has gone on record saying that Clifton would be too expensive to renovate. Marshall High School is in his district. It's interesting to note that a bond went out for almost $102 million for Marshall HS to be renovated. Why was that so different? Yes, it is a high school, but almost $102 MILLION for a renovation?!! Aren't Vienna and Freedom Hill also in his District and they went up for renovation bonds before. Aren't Vienna and Freedom Hill actually OLDER than Clifton Elementary?

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imonsld:
>
> Your lack of knowledge is growing tiresome. Every
> single number is FCPS generated (bona fide or
> not).
> Here you go - page 17, Final Staff Report.


Good job making a spread sheet! I'm sure your husband is proud. If you don't know, many construction projects go over budget. Even with the numbers you made up, it would still be cheaper to build a new school, on a per student cost. Not to mention the energy efficiency of a new school. The funny thing is, I live in Loudoun County. It's really funny that you attack my knowledge, or lack thereof. Maybe you should get some sleep, and get over that the school is closing. So, your kid will go to another school for a maximum of 5 years, before moving onto middle school. If you want your kid to go to a 300 person school, put it in private school. This is my last response to any of your posts, it's summer time! Have a drink and relax!

imonlsd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathalicious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imonsld:
> >
> > Your lack of knowledge is growing tiresome.
> Every
> > single number is FCPS generated (bona fide or
> > not).
> > Here you go - page 17, Final Staff Report.
>
>
> Good job making a spread sheet! I'm sure your
> husband is proud. If you don't know, many
> construction projects go over budget. Even with
> the numbers you made up, it would still be cheaper
> to build a new school, on a per student cost. Not
> to mention the energy efficiency of a new school.
> The funny thing is, I live in Loudoun County. It's
> really funny that you attack my knowledge, or lack
> thereof. Maybe you should get some sleep, and get
> over that the school is closing. So, your kid will
> go to another school for a maximum of 5 years,
> before moving onto middle school. If you want your
> kid to go to a 300 person school, put it in
> private school. This is my last response to any of
> your posts, it's summer time! Have a drink and
> relax!


imonsld might be onto something. After all, there are always those pesky costs that don't get included in even though somebody knew they were there -- asbestos soil removal, as just one example.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
> Stu Gibson has gone on record saying that Clifton
> would be too expensive to renovate. Marshall High
> School is in his district. It's interesting to
> note that a bond went out for almost $102 million
> for Marshall HS to be renovated. Why was that so
> different? Yes, it is a high school, but almost
> $102 MILLION for a renovation?!! Aren't Vienna
> and Freedom Hill also in his District and they
> went up for renovation bonds before. Aren't
> Vienna and Freedom Hill actually OLDER than
> Clifton Elementary?

Marshall HS isn't in Gibson's district (Hunter Mill), but instead in the Providence District. Nor is $102 million being set aside for the Marshall renovation; it's more like $90 million, which is a lot of money but similar to the amounts spent recently to renovate other high schools.

In addition, the enrollment at Marshall - unlike that at Clifton ES - has been growing steadily and is projected to continue to increase in the coming years.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WaitAMinute Wrote:
> > Stu Gibson has gone on record saying that
> Clifton
> > would be too expensive to renovate. Marshall
> High
> > School is in his district. It's interesting to
> > note that a bond went out for almost $102
> million
> > for Marshall HS to be renovated. Why was that
> so
> > different? Yes, it is a high school, but
> almost
> > $102 MILLION for a renovation?!! Aren't Vienna
> > and Freedom Hill also in his District and they
> > went up for renovation bonds before. Aren't
> > Vienna and Freedom Hill actually OLDER than
> > Clifton Elementary?
>
> Marshall HS isn't in Gibson's district (Hunter
> Mill), but instead in the Providence District.
> Nor is $102 million being set aside for the
> Marshall renovation; it's more like $90 million,
> which is a lot of money but similar to the amounts
> spent recently to renovate other high schools.
>

Maybe you're right and it isn't in his district... Maybe it is just some inaccurate data on the part of FCPS (which would no longer be a surprise to folks in Clifton!) because Marshall HS IS listed under Hunter Mill District on the FCPS website. Here is the link that shows it:
http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/members/huntermilldistrict.htm

You mentioned that it is more like $90 million being set aside. Thank you for that information because that is a $12 million difference from what was on the bond referendum in 2009 that the voters voted for so thank you for sharing. Again, though, maybe I am wrong. That $ 101,822,000 million to renovate Marshall High School (to be exact) is listed on the FCPS website here:
http://www.fcps.edu/news/bond09.htm

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WaitAMinute Wrote:
>
>
> In addition, the enrollment at Marshall - unlike
> that at Clifton ES - has been growing steadily and
> is projected to continue to increase in the coming
> years.

Yet, Clifton was included in a FCPS Feasilbity Study on overcrowding in South County JUST ONE YEAR AGO... hmm....

Of course, now that everyone knows the school is to be closed and there was not even a scrap of consideration or plan in place of where those children will go, who is going to want to stay there or move there? So, FCPS can now purposefully DRIVE The numbers down next year. Thanks FCPS too for making the lives of the teachers there a horrible stressful environment for the next year (as if putting them on pay freezes the last 2 years wasn't enough!)

For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills, the building is not actually closing. Other programs are being moved into that building. The high school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers were destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten jobs elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1 million savings). But the building is not being sold, etc. and there is no savings on that account.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
> Maybe you're right and it isn't in his district...
> Maybe it is just some inaccurate data on the part
> of FCPS (which would no longer be a surprise to
> folks in Clifton!) because Marshall HS IS listed
> under Hunter Mill District on the FCPS website.
> Here is the link that shows it:
> http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/members/huntermilldistr
> ict.htm
>
> You mentioned that it is more like $90 million
> being set aside. Thank you for that information
> because that is a $12 million difference from what
> was on the bond referendum in 2009 that the voters
> voted for so thank you for sharing. Again,
> though, maybe I am wrong. That $ 101,822,000
> million to renovate Marshall High School (to be
> exact) is listed on the FCPS website here:
> http://www.fcps.edu/news/bond09.htm

The FCPS list you posted is a bit screwy - all it apparently means is that there are some students who attend Marshall who live in the Hunter Mill district. The list also mentions Langley, but Langley's not in the Hunter Mill district either (it's in the Dranesville district). If you check the list for Providence schools, you'll also find Marshall listed and, if you check the list of Dranesville schools, you'll find Langley listed again. In any event, the relevant point is that the other members of the School Board typically defer to the Providence and Dranesville representatives (Patty Reed and Janie Strauss), and not Stu Gibson, where Marshall and Langley are concerned. As others know all too well, Gibson does call the shots where South Lakes and Madison are concerned.

The information on the bond referendum that you posted is different from what was shown in the CIP in prior years, but it may be that the amount was increased upwards. It doesn't change the fact that the School Board believes the enrollment at Marshall is going to continue to increase, yet thinks that the enrollment at Clifton ES is going to decline. Is the Silver Line coming to Clifton?

Fairfax Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After reading the outrageously snobby posts coming
> from those alleging to be Clifton parents, I hope
> they tear down the old school and turn it into a
> sewage treatment plant. I wonder if their
> children will grow up to be as stuck up as they
> are. Maybe not, now that they'll have to
> integrate with the "rest" of the county.
>
> They sound awfully racist, are they afraid their
> urchin may buddy up with a child named Juan, or
> have a childhood crush on an innocent girl from
> Venezuela named Adela?
>
> Meanwhile, I didn't see anything on the news about
> Clifton residents picketing outside the government
> center. They didn't care enough to get off their
> asses and create a media event out of it? It is
> almost as if they are too stuck up to defend
> themselves sensibly. Ah well, you should have
> done more and now it is too late.


Please substantiate your claims that Clifton residents "seem awfully racist." Give us evidence to prove your point. Can you, or is it just a inane theory of yours?
Almost everyone in town that I am friends with voted for Obama including some of the more conservative ones. In my opinion, that is evidence that weakens your argument.
But I am sure that after making such a strong accusation towards the people of Clifton that you can back up your statements with plenty of concrete facts and information that support your contention. Let's hear them.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WaitAMinute Wrote:
In any event, the relevant point is that
> the other members of the School Board typically
> defer to the Providence and Dranesville
> representatives (Patty Reed and Janie Strauss),
> and not Stu Gibson, where Marshall and Langley are
> concerned.

Patty Reed did not vote on the closure of Clifton. Thus, what you are basically saying is that based on your analysis of the Board structure, it was actually Janie Straus that had a bond go out for approx. $102M to renovate a school within her own district but voted to close Clifton. Also, if your numbers have any relevance in fact (where is your data?), it still leaves open the question of what happened to the $12M difference between your numbers and what the voters approved.

The School Board has many beliefs and quite a few people throughout the County are now questioning just where some of those Board Members are channeling those beliefs from. When the searing rays of reality burn through their fogs of self-delusion, they'll be able to ride the Silver Line into Clifton.

more info Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills, the
> building is not actually closing. Other programs
> are being moved into that building. The high
> school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers were
> destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten jobs
> elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> million savings). But the building is not being
> sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> account.

Other programs...

"The school system’s chief operating officer Dean Tistadt would also like to open a fourth maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.

Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools expects to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of budget cuts next year and the new office would mean those maintenance men who remain would spent less time driving to schools and more time fixing problems."

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/articleprint.asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104

PH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> more info Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills,
> the
> > building is not actually closing. Other
> programs
> > are being moved into that building. The high
> > school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers
> were
> > destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten
> jobs
> > elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> > million savings). But the building is not
> being
> > sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> > account.
>
> Other programs...
>
> "The school system’s chief operating officer Dean
> Tistadt would also like to open a fourth
> maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.
>
> Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools expects
> to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of
> budget cuts next year and the new office would
> mean those maintenance men who remain would spent
> less time driving to schools and more time fixing
> problems."
>
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/articleprint.
> asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104


"Bryant Alternative High School in the Mount Vernon area and Mountain View Alternative High School in Centreville offer similar programs. Woodson Adult High School, located at Woodson Secondary School in Fairfax, also offers high school diploma programs specifically for adults."

"If Pimmit Hills closed, the school system said the county’s other adult and alternative high schools would absorb its 276 students."

Note: Mountain View Alternative High School property is close to the epicenter of overcrowding identified in the Southwestern Regional Boundary Study.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WaitAMinute Wrote:
> In any event, the relevant point is that
> > the other members of the School Board typically
> > defer to the Providence and Dranesville
> > representatives (Patty Reed and Janie Strauss),
> > and not Stu Gibson, where Marshall and Langley
> are
> > concerned.
>
> Patty Reed did not vote on the closure of Clifton.
> Thus, what you are basically saying is that based
> on your analysis of the Board structure, it was
> actually Janie Straus that had a bond go out for
> approx. $102M to renovate a school within her own
> district but voted to close Clifton. Also, if
> your numbers have any relevance in fact (where is
> your data?), it still leaves open the question of
> what happened to the $12M difference between your
> numbers and what the voters approved.
>
> The School Board has many beliefs and quite a few
> people throughout the County are now questioning
> just where some of those Board Members are
> channeling those beliefs from. When the searing
> rays of reality burn through their fogs of
> self-delusion, they'll be able to ride the Silver
> Line into Clifton.

You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on Liz Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed, neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who voted in favor of closing the school would have done so. They would have deferred to her views since Clifton is in her district.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will Liz get the Republican endorsement next year?


Endorsements -- Out on the web is a webpage that has this to say about some of the other endorsements "Ask Liz Bradsher—can she effectively represent all of Springfield’s schools when she fabricates endorsements, embellishes accomplishments, and can’t even get the positions she claims to have held on her grip card?"

Read this:
http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2007/09/kenton-kicking-.html

This is all really simple to understand.

Liz wanted to get West Springfield High Schol moved up on the renovation schedule. By cutting a deal with Tistadt and screwing Clifton folks, WSHS will see renovations approximately 4 years earlier than originally planned.

It doesn't matter that the Clifton community was willing to waive their renovations-saving $11 million, nor that they had privately raised money for the well problem-saving $1 million, nothing matters.

The deal was made months ago when she landed WSHS on the CIP.

She played the Clifton folks telling them to "lay low", lying to them, when she really had no intention ever of fighting for your school.

You were the sacrificial lamb.

Save your money on a lawsuit and instead send it all to her opponent in the 2011 Springfield District SB election. Bury her politically.

The snake needs to see some payback for her misdeeds.

Factchecker Wrote:
> You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on Liz
> Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed,
> neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who voted
> in favor of closing the school would have done so.
> They would have deferred to her views since
> Clifton is in her district.

That is exactly how it works. If the Clifton parents are dissatisfied, they should fund her opponent in the next School Board election. Pissing off folks who live in other parts of the county where the schools generally are considerably older and in worse condition than the schools in the Robinson pyramid isn't going to win any friends or sympathy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2010 10:13AM by Mozart.

inquiry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please substantiate your claims that Clifton
> residents "seem awfully racist." Give us evidence
> to prove your point.
>
> Almost everyone in town that I am friends with
> voted for Obama

"My best friend is black" and "I have black friends!" are the knee-jerk reactions of racists when called out, and the fact that you posted that here in your own defense is interesting.

Also interesting... what does voting for Obama have to do with whether or not you are racist? You and your friends in Clifton voted for Obama DESPITE his race? Odd that you would bring that up as a defense or as evidence of not being a racist... that is a very racist position.

Voting for Obama does not prove that a person is not racist.

Voting for a particular candidate partly due to the person's race is racist.

-----
> > For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills,
> the
> > building is not actually closing. Other
> programs
> > are being moved into that building. The high
> > school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers
> were
> > destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten
> jobs
> > elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> > million savings). But the building is not
> being
> > sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> > account.
>
> Other programs...
>
> "The school system’s chief operating officer Dean
> Tistadt would also like to open a fourth
> maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.
>
> Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools expects
> to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of
> budget cuts next year and the new office would
> mean those maintenance men who remain would spent
> less time driving to schools and more time fixing
> problems."
>
> [www.connectionnewspapers.com].
> asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104


"Bryant Alternative High School in the Mount Vernon area and Mountain View Alternative High School in Centreville offer similar programs. Woodson Adult High School, located at Woodson Secondary School in Fairfax, also offers high school diploma programs specifically for adults."

"If Pimmit Hills closed, the school system said the county’s other adult and alternative high schools would absorb its 276 students."

Note: Mountain View Alternative High School property is close to the epicenter of overcrowding identified in the Southwestern Regional Boundary Study.



How does this all save money? The schools that absorb the 276 Pimmit Hills students have to hire more teachers to handle those students (not to mention find classroom space for them). FCPS is not realizing a savings from the Pimmit Hills building being closed since it will be used for Tistadt & Co. and whoever else. FCPS can say they save $1 million, but this all looks like smoke and mirrors. It's all a shell game.

We are being played constantly by the SB and Dale. We need to get them all out of there. It seems like there are no consequences for people who play fast and loose with our money (whether it be Wall Street or the politicians). No ethics anywhere.

all a game Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills,
> > the
> > > building is not actually closing. Other
> > programs
> > > are being moved into that building. The high
> > > school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers
>
> > were
> > > destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten
> > jobs
> > > elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> > > million savings). But the building is not
> > being
> > > sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> > > account.
> >
> > Other programs...
> >
> > "The school system’s chief operating officer
> Dean
> > Tistadt would also like to open a fourth
> > maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.
>
> >
> > Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools
> expects
> > to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of
>
> > budget cuts next year and the new office would
> > mean those maintenance men who remain would
> spent
> > less time driving to schools and more time
> fixing
> > problems."
> >
> > .
> > asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104
>
>
> "Bryant Alternative High School in the Mount
> Vernon area and Mountain View Alternative High
> School in Centreville offer similar programs.
> Woodson Adult High School, located at Woodson
> Secondary School in Fairfax, also offers high
> school diploma programs specifically for adults."
>
>
> "If Pimmit Hills closed, the school system said
> the county’s other adult and alternative high
> schools would absorb its 276 students."
>
> Note: Mountain View Alternative High School
> property is close to the epicenter of overcrowding
> identified in the Southwestern Regional Boundary
> Study.
>
>
>
> How does this all save money? The schools that
> absorb the 276 Pimmit Hills students have to hire
> more teachers to handle those students (not to
> mention find classroom space for them). FCPS is
> not realizing a savings from the Pimmit Hills
> building being closed since it will be used for
> Tistadt & Co. and whoever else. FCPS can say they
> save $1 million, but this all looks like smoke and
> mirrors. It's all a shell game.
>
> We are being played constantly by the SB and Dale.
> We need to get them all out of there. It seems
> like there are no consequences for people who play
> fast and loose with our money (whether it be Wall
> Street or the politicians). No ethics anywhere.


Isn't Mountain View actually the old Centreville Elementary school? Obviously it is still being used as an educational facility. If it is in the middle of the overcrowding, why didn't the Southwestern Subcommittee just suggest that it be re-purposed back into an Elementary School? If they were trying to figure out what to do with the alternative schools, why not just send the kids from Mountain View to Pimmit instead? They could have left Clifton Elementary open, not renovate it (and done some redistricting), and reuse Mountain View (an already existing school in the epicenter of the overcrowding previously used as an Elementary school). Wouldn't that have saved money? Instead, now they are either going to have to put additions on new schools or build a new school. How does that save money?

inquiry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Almost everyone in town that I am friends with
> voted for Obama


That statement itself is racist.

Time to face the facts. Clifton ES needed to be closed. All the whining and carrying on here will not change that, or the decision that has been rendered. All your points should have been brought forth before the vote, not now.

"why didn't the Southwestern Subcommittee just suggest that it be re-purposed back into an Elementary School?"

Why didn't you think of that 12 months ago?

Too late

hahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Nobody thought about that 12 months ago because nobody knew they were going to close Pimmit Hills 12 months ago! You can laugh all you want, but you're still DUMB! You must be on the school board. Your comment sounds like a 10 year old who stole brought out the loaded dice in a Monopoly game.

And enough on racism. Ridiculous argument.

yupper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "why didn't the Southwestern Subcommittee just
> suggest that it be re-purposed back into an
> Elementary School?"
>
> Why didn't you think of that 12 months ago?
>

Maybe if there had been more time (as Martina Hone) proposed to review the data, that would have been possible but most of the rest of the School Board rushed to vote. Also (unlike FCPS staff) residents of Clifton full-time PAID job is NOT to provide data to School Board Members and FCPS staff. Maybe the better question would be is whether or not FCPS Staff provided that location to the Subcommittee at the beginning of the process so that it could be reviewed thorougly by them?

noper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And enough on racism. Ridiculous argument.

Seems to be hitting a little close to the truth, why are you trying so hard to change the subject? Seems defensive.

I'm changing back to the subject of the thread. If you want to start a thread on racism, go ahead . . . this thread is about the Clifton Elementary School closing.

Hey, justsaying, we are growing weary of your empty, meaningless arguments about racism.

Put up or shut up.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on Liz
> Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed,
> neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who voted
> in favor of closing the school would have done so.
> They would have deferred to her views since
> Clifton is in her district.

You raise a good point actually. If all the other Board Members are just going to defer to another Board Member than how does that serve the County residents overall? Ultimately, bad decisions can be made based on one person's views which can just drive up EVERYONE'S else's taxes. Maybe that is the core problem here.

Interesting point. We need more independently minded thinkers on the board---like Tina Hone. Not the "good old boys" club.

I also think Jack Dale has to go. His motivation is suspect.

FCPS pisses away millions of dollars on these dim-witted consultants, The Aspen Group. They have embraced a process called strategic governance. What do we get for our money? CRAP.

SG basically excludes community input in decision making and calls for all school board members to "fall in line".

Rather than have a healthy debate on a topic, what we get are a bunch of puppets or bobbleheads who all agree with whatever stupid idea comes from Dale and his staff. No tough questions asked, please, policy prohibits SB members from "embarrasing" staff members-this is actually written in their code of conduct.

So, when staff said that Gatehouse II would save our school district $35 million dollars over 30 years, nobody bothered to question them.

When Bradsher had SOCO Middle School put into the 2008 bond deal and demanded construction begin AHEAD of 2005 projects-just one school board member opposed it-Stu Gibson. Probably the only smart decision he has ever made.

We could have robots up there folks-it wouldn't matter.

Exception to this is Hone and newly elected members Reed and Evans. They are truly trying to change this dysfunctional entity but are currently outgunned.

CP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on
> Liz
> > Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed,
> > neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who
> voted
> > in favor of closing the school would have done
> so.
> > They would have deferred to her views since
> > Clifton is in her district.
>
> You raise a good point actually. If all the
> other Board Members are just going to defer to
> another Board Member than how does that serve the
> County residents overall? Ultimately, bad
> decisions can be made based on one person's views
> which can just drive up EVERYONE'S else's taxes.
> Maybe that is the core problem here.

Most county residents don't even know where Clifton is, much less that one of the area elementary schools is slated to be closed.

That being the case, the School Board members generally are prepared to scratch each other's backs, when it comes to issues like redistricting and school closings. The School Board wouldn't have voted to relocate Graham Road ES unless that was what Phil Niedzielski-Eichner (the Providence District member at the time) wanted, and it wouldn't have voted to close Clifton unless it was what Liz Bradsher favored.

It's very nice that Martina Hone gets the crowds cheering at the School Board meetings. But, while it may make some parents feel better that she gives voice to their sentiments, her views very rarely carry the day. She's more of a safety valve than a persuasive advocate on the Board.