I won't answer it because it is a horrible analogy.

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I won't answer it because it is a horrible
> analogy.


I think it is a superb analogy. Take your meds.

We had lots of fun at Langley, also. They kept adding dues in on the same page as the FCPS fees and had due dates for the dues, just added them in automatically, tried to tell me they were optional, but could not show me anything saying that, etc. etc. More arguments with Gatehouse. More foot stomping.

Here is an old letter straightening out the mess. Thank you.

Congratulations, Langley Band parents, on NOT signing the MOA. That is a very wise move. Nothing personal, but the MOA is fraught with problems that nobody wanted to listen to. Get out of the school accounting business. Pull your records frequently and go over every single line. Ask questions. Demand answers. It will be fine.

Don't know if you can make SmartMusic mandatory or not and how it calculates out with the consumables.

If you are going to leave it up to optional dues and donations to fund certain things that the families can well afford to pay for, oh well. I would just dump it on the families. One less thing to deal with.
Saw the $7000 set aside for uniform replacement. Good but seems low.
Your fees seem low considering the demographics of your school and the aspirations that usually accompany that.

TAG day and all fundraisers are optional.
Attachments:

what prompted all this? did something happen?

> Your fees seem low considering the demographics of
> your school and the aspirations that usually
> accompany that.

Now she's offering advice as if some sort of consultant.

A440 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> without mute Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I won't answer it because it is a horrible
> > analogy.
>
>
> I think it is a superb analogy. Take your meds.


I don't doubt that you do. You've made it abundantly clear that there is no deviation from your version of reality.

clarity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what prompted all this? did something happen?

The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she doing the right thing and is trying to do what is best for people. Unfortnately, this quest for righteousness is narrow minded and has consequences that affect many, many people in myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.

Did I miss anything?

Unfortunately, not really Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clarity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what prompted all this? did something happen?
>
> The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she doing
> the right thing and is trying to do what is best
> for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> righteousness is narrow minded and has
> consequences that affect many, many people in
> myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to
> acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
>
> Did I miss anything?

She's never been able to get over an altercation at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and years and years ago.

more specifically Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, not really Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > clarity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > what prompted all this? did something
> happen?
> >
> > The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> > "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she
> doing
> > the right thing and is trying to do what is
> best
> > for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> > righteousness is narrow minded and has
> > consequences that affect many, many people in
> > myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to
> > acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
> >
> > Did I miss anything?
>
> She's never been able to get over an altercation
> at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> years and years ago.



I was there. A complete bunch of crooks. Somebody should have shut them down a long, long time ago.

A witness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> more specifically Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Unfortunately, not really Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > clarity Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > what prompted all this? did something
> > happen?
> > >
> > > The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> > > "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she
> > doing
> > > the right thing and is trying to do what is
> > best
> > > for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> > > righteousness is narrow minded and has
> > > consequences that affect many, many people in
> > > myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse
> to
> > > acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
> > >
> > > Did I miss anything?
> >
> > She's never been able to get over an
> altercation
> > at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> > years and years ago.
>
>
>
> I was there. A complete bunch of crooks. Somebody
> should have shut them down a long, long time ago.


So the band parents plotted to steal money from other band parents?

juicy! Wrote:
> > >
> > > She's never been able to get over an
> > altercation
> > > at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> > > years and years ago.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was there. A complete bunch of crooks.
> Somebody
> > should have shut them down a long, long time
> ago.
>
>
> So the band parents plotted to steal money from
> other band parents?


Yes. They cleared thousands of dollars off of some of the trips. Didn't tell the parents. Nothing on the records for the parents. Told them they were breaking even on them. They knew they weren't supposed to do it and kept it really quiet. Banbury ignored the whole thing when it was brought up. Acted like he didn't give a shit at the meeting.
They eventually told the parents about it at the meetings, made no attempt to pay anybody back whatsoever. I think their lawyer was a former student of the teacher and he was a real dick at the meeting. The officers and a bunch of the alums were obnoxious. They did it right in front of the school board lady, too. I would have told them all to fuck off. It all came out eventually but has been brushed under the rug and kept off the radar.

A witness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> juicy! Wrote:
> > > >
> > > > She's never been able to get over an
> > > altercation
> > > > at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years
> and
> > > > years and years ago.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was there. A complete bunch of crooks.
> > Somebody
> > > should have shut them down a long, long time
> > ago.
> >
> >
> > So the band parents plotted to steal money from
> > other band parents?
>
>
> Yes. They cleared thousands of dollars off of some
> of the trips. Didn't tell the parents. Nothing on
> the records for the parents. Told them they were
> breaking even on them. They knew they weren't
> supposed to do it and kept it really quiet.
> Banbury ignored the whole thing when it was
> brought up. Acted like he didn't give a shit at
> the meeting.
> They eventually told the parents about it at the
> meetings, made no attempt to pay anybody back
> whatsoever. I think their lawyer was a former
> student of the teacher and he was a real dick at
> the meeting. The officers and a bunch of the alums
> were obnoxious. They did it right in front of the
> school board lady, too. I would have told them all
> to fuck off. It all came out eventually but has
> been brushed under the rug and kept off the radar.

So what did they do with the embezzled funds? Nice vacation?

What little i know is that the money went back in the program - no embezzlement. Shouldn't have done it the way they did - stupid - but OP is very careful about not alleging personal gain. As well she should.

But they were trying to embezzle? I'm not sure I understand.

more specifically Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> She's never been able to get over an altercation
> at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> years and years ago.

Hell hath no fury like a bean-counter scorned.

juicy! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But they were trying to embezzle? I'm not sure I
> understand.

The story as I heard it was they ignored the regulation saying that excess money collected for trips was to be given back to the families. They kept very quiet about it. When somebody started asking questions they turned abusive to try and cover up what they did and discourage anybody from pursuing what went on with the possibility of recoupment. The teacher linked them up with their lawyer friend, who was happy to help them with the scheme because he liked the teacher.
Grapevine and what little I could pick up at meetings. The band underground says it was > $30k.

You know that tv show American Greed? A smaller but similar story. Only they did it to kids and parents.

Choose your words carefully Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What little i know is that the money went back in
> the program - no embezzlement. Shouldn't have
> done it the way they did - stupid - but OP is very
> careful about not alleging personal gain. As well
> she should.

So they were stealing. How is that better than embezzlement? It's just a different crime.

So the county let the parents handle a county transaction. The parent officers diverted money that was supposed to go back to the parents into the bank account of the non-profit. They then gave at least some of it back to the school system via donated instruments, etc. So, the county received things they weren't entitled to because the source money was inappropriately diverted due to their gross negligence in their supervision of the county transactions. Got it? It is kind of like the government keeping your tax refund because they have great things they want to do with it.

I thought you meant they were actually keeping the money and spending on things for themselves.

The school system also tried to walk away from their responsibilities by saying they didn't have the right to access the trip documents because they were in the hands of the Boosters. The issue of custodianship of public records has now been made very, very clear to them and Boosters. FCPS owned those records the whole time the Boosters had them, they were always required to have them in their records, and never really relinquished their responsibilities to ensure things were properly handled. They just used that as an excuse to dodge their responsibilities. So, whether the money was embezzled or retained inappropriately, the parents were due money back and somebody didn't give it to them. The school system is responsible for anything they delegate to volunteers. They delegated.

That's a problem. For some reason a lot of people didn't grasp this concept. Probably because they were benefitting from this. When it's for YOU, there doesn't seem to be much of problem.

******Would you like your tax refund donated to the government or a non-profit without your permission? Don't think so. NO DIFFERENCE.

This is why the money and records need to be in FCPS accounts and systems. You can't have this stuff all over town and in unregistered computers. And you all need to look at those records and watch everything they do. Which is what FOIA is for. They HAVE to produce the records. Non-profits do not necessarily release detailed records to members even though they also have state laws on transparency for non-profits. They are filled with loopholes that FOIA doesn't have.

And it has taken four years to get this far. And they want MORE time. When they are operating under legal counsel to get the public money and records back where they belong.

oh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought you meant they were actually keeping the
> money and spending on things for themselves.

You don't get it. It doesn't matter that they didn't use the money to buy a sofa for themselves. They were supposed to give it back to families. See the income tax refund analogy. Taking money you are not entitled to is not OK.

She's not anonymous. I can FOIA information about her FOIA requests, or simply dig a little deeper. But let's see if she'll remove the mask herself. Will you post under your real name, senza?

She says she is "a volunteer screening public information and posting it for the citizens to see" but it seems to me you are "a volunteer screening public information and posting ONLY WHAT SUPPORTS YOUR POSITION". So far I've seen many instances of partial pages and select portions of the many documents you request ... where according to your FOIA requests you have the full documents.

What do you think is missing? I can't pull everything on every transaction. What are you looking for? I will see if I have it. I have another 15+ schools to post. I just haven't gotten to it all yet. I don't have a "position" other than they need to do their work and do it properly. This is very straightforward.

If you don't like FOIA and having your taxes pay for it, contact Jim or Linda. I am sure they would be happy to discuss it with you. I don't think it is going to be what you want to hear, though.

For starters, in one of your posts you attached only pages 1 and 7 of the document. Let's have the whole thing, not just your choice pages.

You see, you are on a rant and trying to tell the world how very right your are about something. And, yes FOIA exists and I wholly support it's use ... but I blame you for causing this waste as much much as I blame Sharon Bulova for the waste when she remodeled her office (how much was spent on artwork alone?).

So, I have yet to see where you've saved the county the amount of money you are causing to be spent. Therefore I think it's a fair to publicly question your intent in the same forum in which you are airing your grievances.

So here's what I want to know ... directly:

1- Your name

2- Your affiliation. Who are you and why I should care. (Are you really just a former Oakton band parent trying to right a wrong? There's no way you are just a "concerned citizen" - far too much emotion/resentment in your posts.)

3- Why you choose to use an (theoretically) anonymous internet board to air this. Why not own it ... put up a blog, a webpage, contact a reporter?

If you really care ... and just want everyone in FCPS to follow rules and "do the right thing" ... then why not put a big-ass "John Hancock" on your diatribe and publicly own it?

People who stand up for a cause but duck and hide when someone asks who they are ... aren't really the do-gooders they claim to be. So if you can't do those 3 things, then maybe tell us why you need to hide from the same public scrutiny you eagerly want to generate around your cause celebre.

clear as mud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought you meant they were actually keeping
> the
> > money and spending on things for themselves.
>
> You don't get it. It doesn't matter that they
> didn't use the money to buy a sofa for themselves.
> They were supposed to give it back to families.
> See the income tax refund analogy. Taking money
> you are not entitled to is not OK.

Yeah, I definitely didn't get it. You made it sound like personal spending sprees were going on and suddenly teachers were showing up in a beamer instead of the '07 camry.

Actually i believe many people know who she is. Especially the Oakton parents. Oakton did do it wrong with funds from spring trips. It's her allegations of theft and embezzlement that are wrong. Just wrong.

Anyone know how long ago she (is it definitely a woman?) had a kid in band at Oakton? I have some friends that went there and one of them was in the band. Maybe he knows the kid she had in band - hopefully this isn't his mom haha.

She's Barbara W. Brown, parent of a former student at Oakton High. Lives in Oakton. You can go to many pubic data sources to find her address (i.e.: county tax records and payment history are all publicly available on-line via the county web site, persona property tax info is also publicly available, though a tad tougher to access) ...

Yes, she has a vendetta ... she doesn't use that word, but if you read thru a few of her other threads you can see that's what this is. There is one post last year where she says it all would have been over if the Oakton Band Boosters would have just shown her the records she demanded to see ... kind of tells the story of "why" she's doing this, me thinks.

Clearly someone on a mission because she felt disrespected ... and for that they must pay!! And she will lead the charge to right this wrong and root out this evil in our midst. "Wow" ... and she tells other posters to "take their meds". Seriously, lady?

To Barb: Just so you know I have no problem with reasonable investigation ... people should do the right thing, handle data responsibly (or not at all) and put money in the right account at all times. And I certainly believe in transparency - fees are fees and donations are donations. However ... the extremist tone you take, your tactics, and your efforts are not appreciated by this FFX parent.

And the biggest change for FFX parents is what ... we write checks to the school and not the boosters for the big sprng trip. All righty then. Depending on the school you might be better off with the Boosters holding the money and writing one big check to the school to cover the travel invoice from the tour company.

Great use of all this time and energy ... if only some charity could of been the recipient of it ... think of the real difference you could make in someone's life.

I don't care what any of you think.
I think this is a great forum to use to put all this out.
And I think this is some great information to get out to parents. They need to know their rights. Nobody tells them.
The big advantage here is people can say whatever they want and it is free and established. You can do whatever you want with public records and make any comments you want. You have a problem with that? I don't care.
No, you don't want to give the money to the parents and write one big check to the school for a $100,000 trip. The insurance isn't there. What kind of an idiot wants to write a $900 check to a non-profit run by volunteers for a county function? That is like writing a check for $900 in taxes to a department store to have them give to the county. Are you nuts?


It doesn't matter who I am. What matters is the utterly ridiculous stuff still going on.


*********Which publication just had pages 1 and 7? Depending on what it is, I will re-post. If it is a school regulation, then you can look it up. Yourself.

If this isn't interesting then why are there so many hits on this thread? Don't come here if you aren't interested. It's as simple as that.

South Lakes Band.

LISTEN UP, PARENTS!!!!!!!!!

Multiple entries state "To be eligible for the spring trip all students must participate in TAG Day and the Citrus Sale or make alternate arrangements with the director if they have a conflict."

You don't have to participate in a fundraiser to purchase county services like a school trip. You don't have to make alternate arrangements with the director. If you don't want your child knocking on doors and asking for money or selling fruit you just say NO. You don't have to make ANY alternate arrangements, and that certainly doesn't mean they can make you give anybody money because your child didn't participate. This shouldn't even be worded like this. This should never have gone out to families like this. Who allows this garbage to go out?

A teacher can't order anybody to participate in a fundraiser, period. AND YOU ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT MAKE SOMEBODY FUNDRAISE FOR A PRIVATE CORPORATION IN ORDER TO GO ON A SCHOOL TRIP. You cannot have students and parents sign a contract to participate in fundraising as a part of taking the class. You in particular cannot have students and parents sign a contract to participate in fundraisers for a PRIVATE CORPORATION as a part of taking the class. The new handbook is presented (it doesn't matter that it is new-optional fundraising has always been the policy).

Who is messing with Student ID numbers?
Attachments:

I am still awaiting some information.

No multiple marcher 10% discounts are allowed on FCPS fees. This is an FCPS course. No discounts was already clarified with the Comptroller. The price is the price and it is set by the Fee Notice.

The separate summer camp fee is noted.

The Marching fee is maxed out.

Any uniform items that the students have to replace should have the money go to the school. Those items are owned by the School Board, NOT the parent group.

Anybody besides staff messing with student ID's?
Attachments:

senza sord th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If this isn't interesting then why are there so
> many hits on this thread? Don't come here if you
> aren't interested. It's as simple as that.

Uh, I wouldn't pat myself on the back there. As one tiny example - this thread started a week after yours has more posts and just as many views:

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1709217.html

Getting tired of senza?

Anyways, I don't see anywhere in the attached document that uniform fees go anwhere but to SCHS. And the only mention of student id's is blackboard. Don't think boosters have anything to do with blackboard.

Requiem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Band.
>
> LISTEN UP, PARENTS!!!!!!!!!
>
> Multiple entries state "To be eligible for the
> spring trip all students must participate in TAG
> Day and the Citrus Sale or make alternate
> arrangements with the director if they have a
> conflict."
>
> You don't have to participate in a fundraiser to
> purchase county services like a school trip. You
> don't have to make alternate arrangements with the
> director. If you don't want your child knocking on
> doors and asking for money or selling fruit you
> just say NO. You don't have to make ANY alternate
> arrangements, and that certainly doesn't mean they
> can make you give anybody money because your child
> didn't participate. This shouldn't even be worded
> like this. This should never have gone out to
> families like this. Who allows this garbage to go
> out?
>
> A teacher can't order anybody to participate in a
> fundraiser, period. AND YOU ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT MAKE
> SOMEBODY FUNDRAISE FOR A PRIVATE CORPORATION IN
> ORDER TO GO ON A SCHOOL TRIP. You cannot have
> students and parents sign a contract to
> participate in fundraising as a part of taking the
> class. You in particular cannot have students and
> parents sign a contract to participate in
> fundraisers for a PRIVATE CORPORATION as a part of
> taking the class. The new handbook is presented
> (it doesn't matter that it is new-optional
> fundraising has always been the policy).
>
> Who is messing with Student ID numbers?


How many names will senza use. Requiem for sensible ways to support programs that taxpayers don't want to. Anyways, you raise an interesting point regarding fundraisers and spring trip. Since spring trip is a VOLUNTARY NON MANDATORY NON CURRICULAR event (emphasis ala Senza) the prohibition against fund raising doesn't make so much sense. Who knows. Onto Charms. Since Charms was purchased by FCPS for all band programs, and they imply this is the first year of use at SCHS, and they refer students and parents to the band director, one can only conclude that ONLY FCPS STAFF ARE MESSING AROUND WITH STUDENT IDS. Just an opinion.

Requiem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Band.
>
> LISTEN UP, PARENTS!!!!!!!!!
>
> Multiple entries state "To be eligible for the
> spring trip all students must participate in TAG
> Day and the Citrus Sale or make alternate
> arrangements with the director if they have a
> conflict."
>
> You don't have to participate in a fundraiser to
> purchase county services like a school trip. You
> don't have to make alternate arrangements with the
> director. If you don't want your child knocking on
> doors and asking for money or selling fruit you
> just say NO. You don't have to make ANY alternate
> arrangements, and that certainly doesn't mean they
> can make you give anybody money because your child
> didn't participate. This shouldn't even be worded
> like this. This should never have gone out to
> families like this. Who allows this garbage to go
> out?
>
> A teacher can't order anybody to participate in a
> fundraiser, period. AND YOU ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT MAKE
> SOMEBODY FUNDRAISE FOR A PRIVATE CORPORATION IN
> ORDER TO GO ON A SCHOOL TRIP. You cannot have
> students and parents sign a contract to
> participate in fundraising as a part of taking the
> class. You in particular cannot have students and
> parents sign a contract to participate in
> fundraisers for a PRIVATE CORPORATION as a part of
> taking the class. The new handbook is presented
> (it doesn't matter that it is new-optional
> fundraising has always been the policy).
>
> Who is messing with Student ID numbers?


your statements are true. the intent is that the program schedules a trip, the program provides an opportunity for the trip, the participants are expected to partake in the provided opportunity so as to not burden the program for a free trip or forfeit the trip due to lack of participation. what is the crux of the anger?

If some group of people is choosing to fund a trip using fundraising in addition to paying a fee, it is with the understanding that this is a dicey setup. It is very clear that fundraising is always always always entirely optional. It always has been. This is public school. The program doesn't have a trip, THE SCHOOL has a trip. The Handbook clearly states that whether a child participates in fundraising or not, the benefit per child will be the same if fundraisers are applied towards the trip, as to do otherwise is private benefit, which is frowned upon by the IRS. I stayed out of the IFA arguments. This is what the Comptroller wants. That is what good old Unemployed Lois wanted and whoever took over her job probably wants, also. Read the Handbook. If you don't like it, call up the Comptroller. Find Lois and ask her. She probably has some time on her hands and would love to chat.

Charge everybody the full fee and use your fundraising for instruments.
Attachments:

Lake Braddock Band.

Pre-season is technically optional. I don't think I saw a separate fee for that and I saw the requested $25 donations for additional instructors. I don't have enough information but I thought instructors could be included in the fee for camp. They have to be screened and paid by the school system. They HAVE to be screened. Even your guest musicians have to be screened. I am sure they are wonderful but it is a school requirement that anybody working with students in a school-sponsored activity has to have a background check.

Tag Day is optional.

Don't know who all has access to the Student ID's.

Uniforms are not provided by Boosters. Uniforms are provided by the school system as they own all the uniforms.

I hope you all still understand spring trip is optional. That was one thing that had to get straightened out. It was marked as required in a previous year.

I still awaiting some information.
Attachments:

If you don't like the IFA and fundraising/no private benefit terms, call the Comptroller and argue about it.

571-423-3700.

senza sord gf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If some group of people is choosing to fund a trip
> using fundraising in addition to paying a fee, it
> is with the understanding that this is a dicey
> setup. It is very clear that fundraising is always
> always always entirely optional. It always has
> been. This is public school. The program doesn't
> have a trip, THE SCHOOL has a trip. The Handbook
> clearly states that whether a child participates
> in fundraising or not, the benefit per child will
> be the same if fundraisers are applied towards the
> trip, as to do otherwise is private benefit,
> which is frowned upon by the IRS. I stayed out of
> the IFA arguments. This is what the Comptroller
> wants. That is what good old Unemployed Lois
> wanted and whoever took over her job probably
> wants, also. Read the Handbook. If you don't like
> it, call up the Comptroller. Find Lois and ask
> her. She probably has some time on her hands and
> would love to chat.
>
> Charge everybody the full fee and use your
> fundraising for instruments.


Please stop being angry for this discussion. If the trip is set up in good faith as an enrichment to the program, and it is not budgeted as a course requirement, the only option is to fundraise for it. It cannot be included as a mandatory fee because it would be cost prohibitive for some families and if too many asked for a fee waiver, the trip would not happen. Why is it bad to provide an option for a good enrichment? The families that don't want to fundraise or don't want to go on the trip are not obligated to do so.

> Uniforms are not provided by Boosters. Uniforms
> are provided by the school system as they own all
> the uniforms.

That's kind of like saying the school board provides school lunches, rather than the people who run the kitchen.

angry Wrote:
>
>
> Please stop being angry for this discussion. If
> the trip is set up in good faith as an enrichment
> to the program, and it is not budgeted as a course
> requirement, the only option is to fundraise for
> it. It cannot be included as a mandatory fee
> because it would be cost prohibitive for some
> families and if too many asked for a fee waiver,
> the trip would not happen. Why is it bad to
> provide an option for a good enrichment? The
> families that don't want to fundraise or don't
> want to go on the trip are not obligated to do so.


I am not angry about anything. You are just very confused. Call up the Comptroller. PRIVATE BENEFIT. Fundraising provides such a miniscule amount towards the trips. If somebody can afford to spend $5000 on gift cards to make $200, they can afford an optional trip. You can still fundraise, but it looks like the amount supplied for the trip has to be applied equally to all the travelers. $5000 for 100 students is only $50 a student. Whoop dee do. I didn't write the Lois letter or the School Finance Handbook. Call the Comptroller instead of whining about me.


Who still wants pages 2-6 and of what?

common (very) time Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Uniforms are not provided by Boosters. Uniforms
> > are provided by the school system as they own
> all
> > the uniforms.
>
> That's kind of like saying the school board
> provides school lunches, rather than the people
> who run the kitchen.

The school system provides the uniforms. The School Board owns the uniforms. The school system does provide the lunches. The employees just serve them.

You don't provide something that you don't own or purchase and then sell to somebody, like lunches.

> I am not angry about anything.

There is pure rage seeping from some of your posts. Either you feel it or you are void of the ability to accurately communicate your emotions.

Fundraising provides such a miniscule
> amount towards the trips. $5000 for 100 students is only $50 a
> student. Whoop dee do.


How f'ing elitist of you. $50 is plenty of money to a lot of people. It makes a difference for many students. I'd sure as hell like to have a extra $50 lying around. You call $50 for a student towards a trip miniscule, and 'whoop de do', yet if a fee ended up being $15 more than the actual cost, you'd be screaming to get it refunded, huh? (it should be) ...my point is that the money does matter, and it does make a difference for more kids than you realize.

senza sord efe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> common (very) time Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Uniforms are not provided by Boosters.
> Uniforms
> > > are provided by the school system as they own
> > all
> > > the uniforms.
> >
> > That's kind of like saying the school board
> > provides school lunches, rather than the people
> > who run the kitchen.
>
> The school system provides the uniforms. The
> School Board owns the uniforms. The school system
> does provide the lunches. The employees just serve
> them.
>
> You don't provide something that you don't own or
> purchase and then sell to somebody, like lunches.

True, at my school we participate in a unison "Thanking of the School Board" for providing us nourishment.

senza sord efe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> common (very) time Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Uniforms are not provided by Boosters.
> Uniforms
> > > are provided by the school system as they own
> > all
> > > the uniforms.
> >
> > That's kind of like saying the school board
> > provides school lunches, rather than the people
> > who run the kitchen.
>
> The school system provides the uniforms. The
> School Board owns the uniforms. The school system
> does provide the lunches. The employees just serve
> them.
>
> You don't provide something that you don't own or
> purchase and then sell to somebody, like lunches.

Earlier you got your crusty panties in a twist over words like "expected." Maybe you should meditate a bit more on what it means to provide something.

YXkmt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fundraising provides such a miniscule
> > amount towards the trips. $5000 for 100
> students is only $50 a
> > student. Whoop dee do.
>
>
> How f'ing elitist of you. $50 is plenty of money
> to a lot of people. It makes a difference for
> many students. I'd sure as hell like to have a
> extra $50 lying around. You call $50 for a
> student towards a trip miniscule, and 'whoop de
> do', yet if a fee ended up being $15 more than the
> actual cost, you'd be screaming to get it
> refunded, huh? (it should be) ...my point is
> that the money does matter, and it does make a
> difference for more kids than you realize.

I question the judgement of committing hard-earned fundraising money to help subsidize completely optional oftentimes luxury trips, then turning around and wanting even more fundraising to provide NECESSARY things like music and instruments. And then also trying to make people feel guilty about not doing fundraising, which they don't have to do.

You don't HAVE to go to Disney to be in Orchestra. You DO need things like school-owned basses.

> I question the judgement of committing hard-earned fundraising money to help >subsidize completely optional oftentimes luxury trips, then turning around and >wanting even more fundraising to provide NECESSARY things like music and >instruments. And then also trying to make people feel guilty about not doing >fundraising, which they don't have to do.
>
>You don't HAVE to go to Disney to be in Orchestra. You DO need things like school->owned basses.


There are dedicated fundraisers for specific things. One may be for a trip. One may be for program needs. Yes, they are optional. I never said they weren't. That doesn't make them less important. The trip is optional, but it's a crucial event during the year that goes a long way toward program building, retention, and recruitment.

Which sounds better: "Hey kids, we have an optional trip to New York - it costs $500 per student, sorry there's no fundraiser to help if you aren't rich", or "Hey kids, we have an optional trip to New York - it costs $500, but we'll have at least two fundraisers and we could possibly bring down the cost to something more affordable for everyone"

^Well, go ahead. It sounds better, but when you look at the reality of how little $5000 goes to assist 200 kids....and the reality that you can't tell them they have to sell popcorn or oranges or hit up their neighbors or they can't go on a school trip.....they don't have to do that. And a staff member has no right to put something like that in a syllabus.

Anybody want to wager a bet on whether Madison can collect three times instead of twice on the Percussion fee? They are charging Marching Band out separately. I don't see that in the Fee Notice.

It's the principle, not the amount.
Attachments:

My kid's music teacher seems to have everything she needs - to constantly show DVDs to the kids. Sigh.

I was seriously wondering about the $1300 per student costs at Madison for the Band program, and the $500 they were asking for from each and every student. So, I got a copy of their budget. These people are living large. Life's good in Vienna.

It looks like $23,000 is budgeted for marching band staff, $39,000 for transportation, $22,000 for hotels/etc., $23,500 for food. For marching band. No wonder you want $500 from everybody. Per child. $300 of it is for Marching Band. In addition to the $300 FCPS fee. What are you doing? First of all, these kids can pack lunch or go to the snack bar. Why is all this money for hotels going through a Booster account? All hotels are part of a school-sponsored trip. Probably some of that transportation, also. The fees for those are supposed to be calculated at cost and explained to the parents and paid to the school. The records are supposed to be open to the public. Any member of the public.


Then there is the $18,000 for Band sectionals. That's $120 per child calculated out on 150 kids, which is what you are using, to pay for lessons for your kids. You are figuring the remaining $200 per child for non-marching stuff, plus $300 for marching stuff, to make your $500. I don't know that you are going to be able to write off much of your "donation".

Parents, if you are paying that $500, you are receiving significant goods and services in return. It isn't enough for the officers to say "consult your tax advisor". You are entitled to receive and they are required to provide you with a clear statement of what you have received for your $500 in the way of goods and services. It is substantial. We already caught your group encouraging tax fraud LAST year when they proclaimed triumphantly that you could write off the payment for pre-season and a trip as a donation to the non-profit. Look at the nice letter that had to go out. You were promoting tax fraud on a bill for what were school-sponsored services being funneled through a non-profit and the Comptroller and the whole gang got on your case. Come on. Are you are trying to do it again. CUT IT OUT!
Attachments:

!
Attachments:

See! I am not making this up. This is a new classification of payments. It is called a donation/payment.
Attachments:

anger management Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I am not angry about anything.
>
> There is pure rage seeping from some of your
> posts. Either you feel it or you are void of the
> ability to accurately communicate your emotions.


Not gonna own up on the anger? To your credit, you have toned it down a bit in the last 24 hours. Still, I think some readers have trouble differentiating your rantings from those made by the residents of the local metro stations.

I think I have really pleasant considering that I have been called a cunt and an effing bitch and laughed at by people who promote tax fraud, steal from families, lied to a bunch of families, ignored the Virginia public records laws, try to tell kids they can't go on a school trip, etc. etc. etc. Compared to what I was dealing with over the last four years, I am a saint.

We are going to be at this for a while......this is a ton of information.

I see. You're angry, but you deserve to be, so it is okay to say that you aren't.

If you don't like The Plan, put your kid in private school.
illegal bills
very unsavory stuff
Shame on you
You should know better. Shame on you.
Staff can go to jail.
You people all need to hush up
gouging parents
QUIT WHINING AND COMPLAINING
cut that crap out.
It hurts everybody when you drive up to school in your Lexus
Get over it.
put your kid in Flint Hill or Madeira.
quit being difficult.
you just have to adjust your expectations and goals down a little.
quit wasting the time of the school officials with arrogant testing of the system.
there is probably more of this going on under the surface and off the record and behind the scenes.
we are all in the implementation phase of things.
raise Holy Hell. Immediately.
slush fund.
I think a lot of people just went totally overboard and got out of line
I think a lot of them don't care about doing what is right
They just want to be difficult and obnoxious
When people act like that it is usually for a reason.
I think there are some groups who are trying to skirt around the new system.
Whatever. It's just a Booster group. You don't run the world.
I am immune to the likes of you.
your arguments are futile.
loved the part about contacting the sheriff if a party ignores a court order
except for the Slush Fund problem
people who are doing shady stuff
Where the heck are you going to send the sheriff
It was impossible to press charges
we still needed critical records
I have never seen so many confused people in my life.
what went on was not appropriate.
there is still no excuse for what happened.
This whole thing smells fishy. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Just sayin'....
I am seeing a lot of efforts to circumvent the new processes
nasty stuff that went on.
Boosters also will no longer have to resort to ugly tactics
There were very obvious problems.
people are violating state and Federal laws
There were a lot of staff who were totally asleep.
This is utterly ridiculous.
should not be putting stuff out that is against the state and federal laws, violating school regulations
teachers just missed a lot of stuff.
You can't assume that a certain program is fine.
staff were not paying attention, or were choosing to ignore what they were told to do.
That is really, really, really bad.
it was totally off the wall.
They win the arrogance award.
Dr. Moniuszko, you're the best
very sad that the very people who are supposed to care about the children and families and doing their jobs properly
I didn't do anything.
You can pick from the Booster group who refused to release public records and publicly treated me like trash (and one of them verbally abused my child and made them cry), played games with trip money, the teacher(s) and administrator(s) who allowed this to happen, the school personnel who didn't know a public record from a hole in the wall, the Booster attorney who was encouraging their atrocious, abusive behavior and was totally obnoxious and threatening me inappropriately.
I am not tolerating any attitude from anybody.
DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE DOLLAR. Because they are probably acting like this for some not very good reasons.
And people who are being denied public records and records on financial transactions that they made with a Booster group have every right in the world to get very, very ugly.
Quit whining.
Justify what this was for. NOW.
WHY? That takes a lot of nerve.
These are problems for the school administrators to work out. I am staying out of it.
it was clear that things were not being monitored consistently.
I have demanded answers, for all of you
I am standing very, very firm.
Just shut them down and run all the money through the school system. THAT is what you do to people you are really ticked at.
We chuckled about a few other things regarding this.
why has this all been going on, and unless somebody reviews these, how is it going to get caught and corrected?
Why weren't a lot of the teachers doing this? Some of them were at the parent meetings where very inappropriate actions were being discussed.
violated school regulations, state and/or Federal laws,
inappropriate bill
I spent about 7 hours with senior level administrators
You never know when this is going to happen again. It happens all over the country. Every day.
Some of the school personnel also yelled at me and made fun of me in front of large groups
something is still seriously missing.
Why are people ignoring what they were told to do and NOT do?
It is NOT about anybody's ego. GET OVER IT.
so figure it out. NOW. Because you are being held accountable. All of you.
there are/were a LOT of people who aren't paying for their kids.
Who isn't paying for their kids? WHY?
You also sent a bill for it. You don't have the authority to do that.
How would you feel if you had two or three kids in this program, could barely afford it as it was, and then you were sent an inappropriate bill
You might actually be able to bill the parents for more
PAY UP. Keep your kid home. Plan. Do something. But, QUIT BEING FREELOADERS!!!
You are greedy, selfish, unrealistic moochers who think you are entitled to have a free ride, is what you are.
I do find it very interesting how people who are sending families bills for $230+ when they don't even have the right to do that don't seem to be a problem.
And there are quite a few programs that are not charging anywhere near what they could charge,
Somebody please explain to me how soaking families and children for money that you are not legally entitled to is NOT harmful,
You just can't send out a bill to parents for it.
Booster clubs don't have the right to send out bills
If you don't like it, put your kid in private school or go work in a private school.
you are screwing around with all this
So quit playing games. You are wasting their valuable time. I am not.
they all are being taken advantage of.
renounce your citizenship and get out of this country. Sooner rather than later.
violates school regulations, state, or Federal laws, it has to be squared away. And there was a LOT of that.
quit with the lame excuses when you are caught in the act doing this stuff.
Put your kid in private school.
You rebellious types can probably keep a good bit of this
not correct things when you violate public school regulations, etc.
This is not a scandal, but something that just needed to be fixed.
violations of school policy.
This was set up with Dr. Moniuszko when I told him I had seen enough messing around
Ask RM. We have discussed this extensively.
FCPS is not in charge of Booster organizations, and Booster organizations can't be in charge of FCPS activities. This has gotten very mixed up over the years.
Ask RM.
never really should have been managed the way they were for so many years. It did not follow written policy and state laws, or common sense
I could care less. Really.
QUIT BLAMING IT ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!! If you people started doing these, whatever happens is your own fault. Grow up!
The following groups will be identified in a separate thread if their issues don't get straightened out by Jan 15th
give the staff anything they need to fix this. RIGHT NOW.
This is a bare minimum list. I might add more.
You explain yourselves to the school system and your parents if you haven't already. Immediately. Quit playing games, folks!
when you are dealing with groups of parents scattered all over the county, that is a huge problem,
You people were eating it for a lot of scofflaws. As well as paying for the FRM kids.
The voice of reason.
you have until January 15th. Start coughing up some records. Now.
This is no time to be nice.
There should be no excuses this year. It is actually getting worse. They are getting more creative at dodging the requirements. I saw a lot of that. Hence, the deadline.
You never know when some of the accounting people can BE the problem. Watch out. Some of them like Dirty Little Secrets.
Time's up all around. Wrap it up. January 15th.
renounce your citizenship and move out of the country and make more room for us in the Land of the Free.
January 15th! These bills and issues are public records.
The true losers are the people who selfishly screwed over thousands of parents and children with their games over the years.
This is far more interesting and rewarding than watching Reality TV.
If people are going to continue to put out this trash, I will continue to look.
I think you people are getting hysterical for no reason.
January 15th!!!
Explain yourselves. Right here. I challenge you.
misuse of funds is not the point.
And if I don't hear how this was explained by January 15th, the names will be posted
There is nothing inflammatory about that, nothing insulting
As far as outing, the four groups in question have been handling public funds.
Why do you people want to put the licenses of the teachers and administrators in jeopardy?
Have fun with this one!!!!!!!!!!
all that matters is whether the existing laws and regulations were followed
Please treat these school officials with respect
Working out the details on just the Final Four is a ton of work.
The other areas are on their own. I could care less.
Get to work fixing the numbers and details. January 15th.
I don't mean to blackmail people, but most of the problems were reported in Sept/Oct.
I am merely setting a deadline.
I am not accusing anybody of anything.
get this worked out by January 15th. This is very basic stuff.
staff can't walk away from their responsibilities in this type of situation. So, team up and straighten this out.
You can't go sending out bills for $50,000-$70,000 to parents unless they are completely justified. And they aren't even close. And you are NOT waiting until next year to fix this. You are going to fix it THIS year.
January 15th.
I am giving these groups and schools the chance to work this out without being publicly fingered. The claims could be very defensible.
However, more analysis needs to be done
Right now. I am not accusing anybody of anything. I am merely pointing out that there might be problems.
right to go to Small Claims court,
January 15th. I am sure some of this will be fine. Some, maybe not.

I would tell them all to fuck off. you should have done that a long time ago. this is great.

sounds like it

Fairfax HS Orchestra.

Fundraising is optional.
Refuse to write your Spring Trip checks to the Boosters. Insist on a school account.
The consumables fee should go to the school. They say the money becomes the property of the Boosters. If you gave it to the school, it is still your property, you can see the records, and you get a refund of any excess, of which there will probably be none.

Your FARM status is being violated by having the money handled through the Boosters. You have to show the form to the teacher but the Boosters are keeping the records. the doesn't even have ready access to them. They have to have your specific written permission to see your status.
Attachments:

All fundraisers are optional.
Somebody altered the template. Any excess consumables have to be offered back to families. There is supposed to be a specified amount for uniform reserve account. This is now the second group at McLean to do this. Whose idea was this? This conflicts with the FAQ's.
Attachments:

I realize the Orchestras and Choruses are doing a slower transition than the Bands. Why, I don't know. They are still being evaluated.

McLean Orchestra.

All fundraisers are optional. All fundraisers are optional.
No IFA's.

The procedure for FARM kids is to approach the teacher with a copy of their lunch form or other type of legitimate problem as per the fee Notice, and they are supposed to get a discounted class fee. They do NOT have to do fundraising to make up for this. This is their right. And they do NOT have to give their status to the other parents. They are NOT authorized to get an automatic discount on the optional trips. The helping process with that is a confusing disaster in the Guidelines. I already pointed that out.
With the money running through the parents, this gets all messed up.

The $50 "payment"/"tax deduction"-Boosters do not have the right to send anybody a bill for a payment for these items or anything else. You do not have to pay this bill. Even now. You never did in previous years! This is supposed to go through the school and only consumables can be charged for. Any requests from Boosters for money have to be optional. This is only $50, but you are calling this a tax-deductible PAYMENT and some things look like services received (activities). A payment is probably not tax-deductible. A DONATION is. This is so messed up. It's not the amount it is the technicalities.

The checks are written to the MHS Orchestra and are going to the Boosters. The Boosters are NOT the MHS Orchestra. They are an independent non-profit. Some schools are having checks written to the XY High School Band/Chorus/Orchestra, but the money goes to the school. This needs to be clarified with the Business staff and have a consistent approach. I mentioned this several times.

The uniforms and instruments are school property. Just saying.
Attachments:

Langley chorus.

All fundraisers are optional. That includes car wash, coffee sales, etc. I notice that participation in fundraisers is required to get a letter/pin. It said encouraged on one page, but the actual formal form indicates required. Students are required to have a minimum number of points in each category I-IV, and a net profit of $61 is required to meet Category III/fundraising. This is grossly inappropriate. I have seen other letter requirements that had fundraising as an option to get points, but you could easily make up the points doing other things. In particular, students should not be required to raise money for a non-profit entity that is separate from the school system. You can't do it for the school system either. I might have missed this on some earlier ones.

Whatever you do, DO NOT write any checks to the Boosters for that $1000 Spring Trip. Insist that be handled through an insured school account.

I liked your used uniform set-up. There was one group that had an online thrift shop, which I thought was brilliant. A tux is a tux. Boys grow like weeds in high school. Schools could even share the information.

SCHOOL-sponsored raffles and sales of raffle tickets by students on school premises are prohibited. Don't know how you work this. (reg. 1370.6)

If you are purchasing expensive uniforms through a non-profit it is at your own risk.

FCPS has the right to charge a fee for consumables instead of relying on donations. I presume that will be coming. Hopefully soon.
Attachments:

All curricular concerts should be free for all schools now. If anybody is charging, they need to stop. That is straight from the Comptroller. Yes, your concerts are marked as free, but you also indicate that a lot of other schools are charging. They shouldn't be.

Staff should not be doing a sales pitch for Boosters with a dollar amount. Nothing unique here.

FCPS fees can certainly be charged and really should be charged because it prevents a lot of problems. People can always donate on top of that.

It says private instruction is necessary to be in Philharmonic. Technically this is optional. I know what the deal is. I was a violinist. You need private lessons.

I see the Spring Trip is over $1200 and the adult price is almost $1500. First of all, those checks to Boosters for this need to stop. Right now. This is too much public money to be running through a volunteer bank account. Second, if the adults going on the trip as chaperones are paying almost $1500 for the privilege, you are being used. The cost of chaperones can be built into the price for the students. Chaperones are helping out the school system. They are required by school regulations. You don't have to pay for that privilege. And that price is totally ridiculous$, but thi$ i$ Langley High $chool.

No IFA's. The price is the price on the trip whether kids participate in fundraisers or not. There aren't two separate prices. Somebody up in your neck of the woods was doing that in the past and I can't remember which group it was.
Attachments:

a witness = senza sord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sounds like it

The only vulgarity I directed at my old group was telling "S" to blow it out her "rear end" when she insulted my family, threatened my job, and was publicly screaming at me. She totally deserved it. What a shrew.

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> when she insulted my family, threatened my job, and was
> publicly screaming at me. She totally deserved it.
> What a shrew.

Since those three things are exactly what you have been doing on FFXU since day one (insulting, threatening, and PUBLICLY SCREAMING)... well, I can see then how you understand people thinking the exact same of you.

^^^ +1

Pointing out regulatory violations and insisting they be corrected and refusing to give up access to public records is not insulting. I was told they were planning on posting the letter from Dr. Garza, and that somebody who knew what they were doing would be checking the syllabi and financial billing procedures. Neither of those obviously happened in the "moving forward" plans. Oh well. I am not surprised in the least. I fully anticipated doing this.

Parents, I am bringing up major stuff here to discuss and pointing out your rights. Enough is enough. I pointed out some of this three years ago. Time's up! If I were you I would start asking some big questions and set some limits.

And I really don't care if you don't like me. If you are the kind of person who thinks it is ok to send people a big bill when you are not entitled to and demand payment, encourage tax fraud, take money from kids and parents and then sneak around, inappropriately bully people into selling whatever it is you want to hawk, not keep accurate records and scalp families, and block access to public records, then I sure am not looking to associate with you anyway. You can live with your sicko mental disorders and hang out with people who think like that.

****** Just don't take it out on kids and families who don't know any better.

> Pointing out regulatory violations and insisting
> they be corrected and refusing to give up access
> to public records is not insulting.

No one is calling you on that. You do quite a bit more than just that, which is what they are calling you on.


> I fully anticipated
> doing this.

You look forward to doing it.


> If I were you I would start asking
> some big questions and set some limits.

All this discussion you wish to be generated never seems to materialize. You post facts with a side of screaming. People call you on the screaming. You retort. It gets ugly. Rinse, repeat.


> If
> you are the kind of person who thinks it is ok to
> send people a big bill when you are not entitled
> to and demand payment, encourage tax fraud, take
> money from kids and parents and then sneak around,
> inappropriately bully people into selling whatever
> it is you want to hawk, not keep accurate records
> and scalp families, and block access to public
> records, then I sure am not looking to associate
> with you anyway.

I can't recall anyone ever posting something that indicated that they feel your above scenario is "ok."

It's pretty obvious on here what some of the attitudes are. It is very obvious from what I am finding in the information posted here.

It's very obvious from the way people have acted the last four years.

I have never seen so many well-educated, confused people in my life.

Parents, I am posting your rights and the questions you need to start asking and the issues you need to address.

I will also add that being all polite and trusting and patient didn't work very well. There are a lot of families who were offered some significant amounts of money because I quit being nice. Ugly works much better in these types of situations.

> Ugly
> works much better in these types of situations.

Well that sums you up.

without mute (not BBs reg) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Ugly
> > works much better in these types of situations.
>
> Well that sums you up.



When people are lying, stealing, abusing parents and children, and otherwise breaking the law, that is NOT the time to be nice.
And I don't apologize for that.

Then why the feigned surprise and denial when people call you on it?

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

Lake Braddock Chorus. Oh we are going to have a struggle with this.

The Spring Trip is optional. OPTIONAL. O-P-T-I-O-N-A-L. We discussed that last year when everybody was being told they had to sign up for this very expensive trip because choirs are supposed to be adjudicated outside of the school, making it a very expensive part of the course. Don't worry. Band was doing the same thing. They got talked to, also.

I can't tell if an FCPS fee is being charged or not. A $30 "expectation" is mentioned. I hate that word.

Then there is another form that says a $10 payment is the minimum for the students to participate in chorus. This is on the page with the Booster payments. Who are you to tell students this? They technically don't have to pay you anything. I know they are still working things out with the choruses.

There are several mentions of late fees for payments, as much as $20. We already went around the block with those out at Herndon. VERBOTEN. That is a totally unauthorized fee. Parents, you are entitled to a refund on those. Fees are not supposed to be a fundraiser for a non-profit or the school system. They are supposed to cover actual costs.

This program desperately needs somebody to calculate out the consumables fee, label it as FCPS, put it on letterhead, charge it, and put it into a school account. And get the uniform rental into a school account.


Boys rent their uniforms from the SCHOOL SYSTEM, NOT the Boosters. The Boosters don't own the uniforms. They are the property of the School Board. That money is supposed to run through a school account.

No IFA's are allowed. All fundraisers are optional. Curricular concerts are free.

Whatever you do, parents, DO NOT write a check to a Booster club for Spring Trip. Insist on a school account.

Next year will be interesting.
Attachments:

Lake Braddock Orchestra.

Here we go.

Opening with a letter from the Booster President declaring that Booster members will be in a separate line from non-Booster members and that Booster members will be seated first. La di da. Tacky. Rude. Totally inappropriate in public school. You should be ashamed of yourselves, but of course you're not. Donating to a 501c3 has NOTHING to do with where you sit at a public school concert and should not give you any priority for getting in the door before anybody else. This sounds like the South back in the 50's. Get to the back of the bus!!!!!!! I would just walk right on in. I might drive down for a concert and crash the line just to piss somebody off. And why the Hell does a Booster President think they have right to declare this? Please don't tell me a staff member approved this. Their name is also on the Booster form.

Who has been dealing with the student ID numbers?

Who owns the lockers? The school system. Who owns the locks? Why are locker rental and locks being paid to the Booster club?

No IFA's are allowed.

Uniform rental should be going to the school. Uniforms are owned by the School Board.

Liked the part about the portion of the donation over $35 being tax-deductible.
Attachments:

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lake Braddock Orchestra.
>
> Here we go.
>
> Opening with a letter from the Booster President
> declaring that Booster members will be in a
> separate line from non-Booster members and that
> Booster members will be seated first. La di da.
> Tacky. Rude. Totally inappropriate in public
> school. You should be ashamed of yourselves, but
> of course you're not. Donating to a 501c3 has
> NOTHING to do with where you sit at a public
> school concert and should not give you any
> priority for getting in the door before anybody
> else. This sounds like the South back in the 50's.
> Get to the back of the bus!!!!!!! I would just
> walk right on in. I might drive down for a concert
> and crash the line just to piss somebody off. And
> why the Hell does a Booster President think they
> have right to declare this? Please don't tell me a
> staff member approved this. Their name is also on
> the Booster form.
>
>





OK I am believer now.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Is this the Jennifer who thinks she has the right to put out a letter being snotty to the other parents and controlling access to a public school concert?
Attachments:

This again.

> The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she doing
> the right thing and is trying to do what is best
> for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> righteousness is narrow minded and has
> consequences that affect many, many people in
> myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to
> acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
>
> Did I miss anything?

I invite other contributowrs of this thread to share my post name.

m97KK Wrote:Y
-------------------------------------------------------
> senza sord th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > If this isn't interesting then why are there so
> > many hits on this thread? Don't come here if
> you
> > aren't interested. It's as simple as that.
>
> Uh, I wouldn't pat myself on the back there. As
> one tiny example - this thread started a week
> after yours has more posts and just as many
> views:
>
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/170
> 9217.html

I would not be proud of the number of hits on this site. Most threads are full of porn and trolls. You should find a more credible forum if you are serious.

I think it is a great place to put out the information. The public records are credible on their own and people can say whatever they want. It gets the job done. Good enough. The major stuff gets personally delivered to Gatehouse. Parents, feel free to take anything up with your administrators and staff.

fthyuim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> m97KK Wrote:Y
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > senza sord th Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > If this isn't interesting then why are there
> so
> > > many hits on this thread? Don't come here if
> > you
> > > aren't interested. It's as simple as that.
> >
> > Uh, I wouldn't pat myself on the back there.
> As
> > one tiny example - this thread started a week
> > after yours has more posts and just as many
> > views:
> >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/170
>
> > 9217.html
>
> I would not be proud of the number of hits on this
> site. Most threads are full of porn and trolls.
> You should find a more credible forum if you are
> serious.



If you don't like this forum, then go right ahead and take the public records and post them somewhere else!!!!!!!!!

do you have falls church information?

Yeah, would love to have the scoop on Yorktown HS. Thanks.

yorktownmarchingband Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, would love to have the scoop on Yorktown HS.
> Thanks.

Go to your booster parent meetings. Pretty easy. Take part. Participate. Don't complain until you do. But you know this is a fairfax board....

It's simple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yorktownmarchingband Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah, would love to have the scoop on Yorktown
> HS.
> > Thanks.
>
> Go to your booster parent meetings. Pretty easy.
> Take part. Participate. Don't complain until you
> do. But you know this is a fairfax board....


yorktown is in Arlington.....

We are going to have a little lesson this morning. Let's talk about some of the words I am seeing in the syllabi. Request, expect, and necessary.

Request-the state of being sought after. To ask someone to do something in a polite or formal way.
-when your band instructor requests that you not play your instrument while they are talking, I think they are serious about this. The schools expects children to be on time was another use I saw. Uh, yeh.

Expect-to consider bound in duty or obligated. To consider due.
-When a choral teacher says that you are expected to sing in tune as part of the course, I think they are serious about this. The children are also expected to be in their hotel rooms at 10pm and be quiet on trips.

Necessary-required. Absolutely needed.
-When an orchestra director says private lessons are necessary, I think they are serious about this.

There are obviously some grey areas in these definitions, so why use these words at all, particularly the first two, when you are telling children what you want them to do, and trying to make it sound "optional"? If a teacher expects or requests a student to do something, I think the student feels obligated to do it. Pulling out the dictionary in front of the teacher and splitting hairs would be considered impudent and argumentative.

So don't go telling me these are synonymous with "optional". They aren't. They also aren't clearly synonymous with "highly recommended".

You need to be very specific with people. Particularly children, and the parents that will be refusing to let their children do things because they don't think they are required based on the grey areas associated with these terms.

RETIRE THEM.
Attachments:

Robinson Band.

A $50 fee for regular Band is requested/optional on syllabus and is paid to the school. You can easily make this mandatory for consumables. Why not do it? You don't have to be nice about this. You have state law behind this. I have seen optional parent payments but not optional school payments.

Tiny Tots concerts-no student is supposed to be excused from a class for a fundraiser. This is a school regulation. Fundraisers are extracurricular activities and extracurricular activities are not to interrupt curricular activities. That is a state law. This is a fundraiser. Any performance involving students that has an admission fee is supposed to use serially numbered tickets and have the money go into a school account. Any revenue from a Booster activity involving students is to be in a school account. There can't be a charge for a curricular concert. These Tiny Tots concerts are already under review. What a mess.

You make it sound like you don't receive anything from the county. You poor things. You aren't the only ones who talk like this. I have seen worse. This program received $24,000 this year in appropriated funds for marching band. It also received $1750 for assessment/travel expenses for regular band. You are also benefitting from the completely revised fee schedule that allows the school system to collect up to $300 per student for consumables plus the optional pre-season, and up to $150 for regular Band, and be protected under state law.

What is the travel supplement that everybody is referring to? If there is a school-sponsored trip, that should be running through a school account and the terms presented to the parents and should be public record.

FCPS fees and Booster requests for money should be on separate pages. FCPS staff and property are not supposed to be used to help Boosters collect money. All FCPS fees and communications regarding FCPS fees are supposed to be on FCPS letterhead.

Pre-season is technically optional and can have a separate fee charged, and should go into a school account.

Tag Day is OPTIONAL. O-P-T-I-O-N-A-L. Yes- really, totally, completely optional.

Why are parents processing medical forms? It isn't just this group. That is protected information.

Marching Expected/Suggested donation. With a due date. There's that word again. Are you sending out reminders and more bills for your donation? How much of this $95 donation is for goods and services? It looks like a lot, so why is it called a donation? I don't follow this. You aren't alone.
Attachments:

Robinson Chorus.

Some good stuff here! Congratulations and thank you for being polite.

Concerts are "expected". I hate that word. "There isn't any good excuse for missing a concert performance." Concerts certainly are "required". They are NOT optional. They are part of the class grade. So much for everybody trying to tell me that expected means optional. Students are also "expected" to purchase concert attire. They sure are. See what I mean? Jeans and sneakers are certainly not an option.

Very, very nice use of the term "highly encouraged" on other audition and travel opportunities. I really like that term. There is so much to be gained on a lot of these, but if you don't want to do it, fine.

Yes, fundraisers are optional. THANK YOU for saying that. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Cabaret-Any performance involving students that charges admission is supposed to have serially numbered tickets and have the money run through the school accounts. Tickets are being offered to donors. Do you buy those from the school in advance and mark them for donors? Is the money running through a school account? It's supposed to be! I see that you report the value of the tickets provided to donors at $8 each so that people can calculate out their tax deduction. Good job! I see Cabaret night is optional.

Children are paying a program fee to the school. Good. It looks like they are also ordering uniforms through the school. Also good. This is a lot of money. I was told they can also probably get a better price. I would think so, with the number of programs in this county needing tuxes, in particular.
Attachments: