WATCHDOG SAID


All parents in Fairfax County must expect full disclosure from the SB on how this South County middle school is being built, where every penny comes from, any land deals and any incorrect procedures need to be watch/reported on this site.


Suggestion for the SB. No middle school for SOCO.

Instead, make the new Laureal High ES into a 6/7/8 grade school. This will reduce over capacity issues at Silverbrook ES, Lorton Station ES and SOCO HS.

Do the above and FCPS saves 50 million.

We love what the current FFX School Board is doing. What is your problem?

All the positive attributes that you list above are what every parent in Fairfax County wants for their children - community schools. The South County area is the fastest growing area in the county, with thousands of new homes built in the last 5 years. There is a need for these schools and the community is fighting for that. This has nothing to do with race or wealth and you clearly know nothing about SOCO to make that statement. Those views are short-sighted and show your lack of understanding the issues.

MS Yes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the positive attributes that you list above
> are what every parent in Fairfax County wants for
> their children - community schools. The South
> County area is the fastest growing area in the
> county, with thousands of new homes built in the
> last 5 years. There is a need for these schools
> and the community is fighting for that. This has
> nothing to do with race or wealth and you clearly
> know nothing about SOCO to make that statement.
> Those views are short-sighted and show your lack
> of understanding the issues.

I think you have no clue on what is going on in the FCPS system when you state that every parent in FFX county wants community schools for their children.

I think you should read some of the 290 pages of this blog or ask the people of western FFX county how they have been destroyed by the school board.

How they have no community schools, how they have split feeder schools and how they have been screwed for the last ten years by the FCPS board.

They do not want to go to South Lakes, the same way you do not want to go to Hayfield or Lee.

You want your cake, you want to eat it and tell everyone where.

I am sick and tired of the SOCO whiners and their misguided sense of entitlement to this middle school.

FACT: FCPS is facing a $100 million budget deficit

FACT: Fairfax County has a declining revenue base given the real estate market.

FACT: Many FCPS facilities are in desperate need of renovations-some have not been renovated for 40 years.

FACT: There are 4 schools surrounding SOCO that have 1200 empty seats-SOCO is overcrowded by 450 students.

FACT: Many students in FCPS commute long distances to get to their schools. SOCO families should do the same.

When that dingbat spoke at the SB meeting and stated that she brought ber piggybank with $27 million I had to laugh. Who the hell made her queen? She stole $2 million from BRAC planning, she hocked some piece of PUBLIC land for $15 million and the BOS is offering $10 million to shut Storck and Bradsher up. How exactly is that her piggy bank?

This SB is wasting so much time on this garbage someone needs to tell them NO! Maybe then the SB will start giving a damn about the other 165,000 students in FCPS.

We have all been "screwed" by Facilities inablity to make accurate forecasts and projections and by always taking the easy way out. Maybe for once, they'll get it right. Lee and Hayfield are excellent schools, however Lee is over 100% utlized, Hayfield will continue to receive students thru the 2011 boundary phase-in and will be at 95% capacity. The need is clear, the facts are clear. This is not about entitlement, race, wealth, or pitting communities against each other. We should all be working to find the best solutions for all our kids....

Do share with the group the "FACTS" about capacity levels at neighboring schools and don't forget Mt Vernon!!

IT's not YOUR MONEY. IT's our money. There are many places that need it more than your selfish ass. Get over yourself, please.

There's a lot of misinformed bitterness in your statements. Moving on.

MS Yes-

You apparently are on the moral high ground so do tell us how deserving you are of your new school???

I am genuinely curious how your group has the gall to continue to demand this school.

Please tell us your justification for this expense. And please leave out the emotional language such as, "community school", etc.

Notice how once again Ms Yes and the other SCites forget to mention the surplus seats at Lake Braddock? Perhaps because it is the North Silverbrook area that would be most likely to be redistricted. If the Silverbrookers were smarter, they wouldn't be denying the LBSS potential but perhaps think of another SCSS neighborhood that could be redistricted, ie Newington Forest.

Past Bond Referendums for FCPS Fat Cats:

1988 $179 million
1990 $169 million
1993 $140 million
1995 $204 million
1997 $233 million
1999 $297 million
2001 $378 million
2003 $290 million
2005 $246 million
2007 $365 million

Enough is enough-we need to be more responsible with the money we spend. Our schools are badly needing renovations.

It is hopelessly irresponsible to build a school we don't need.

? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Notice how once again Ms Yes and the other SCites
> forget to mention the surplus seats at Lake
> Braddock? Perhaps because it is the North
> Silverbrook area that would be most likely to be
> redistricted. If the Silverbrookers were smarter,
> they wouldn't be denying the LBSS potential but
> perhaps think of another SCSS neighborhood that
> could be redistricted, ie Newington Forest.

____________________________________________________________

The extra seats simply do not exist at LBSS. In fact, somebody goofed the projections by HUNDREDS (imagine that...) and the school is technically PACKED.

MS Yes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have all been "screwed" by Facilities inablity
> to make accurate forecasts and projections and by
> always taking the easy way out. Maybe for once,
> they'll get it right. Lee and Hayfield are
> excellent schools, however Lee is over 100%
> utlized, Hayfield will continue to receive
> students thru the 2011 boundary phase-in and will
> be at 95% capacity. The need is clear, the facts
> are clear. This is not about entitlement, race,
> wealth, or pitting communities against each other.
> We should all be working to find the best
> solutions for all our kids....


_________________________________________________________________

MS YES, do not be discouraged by the 8 or 9 people here who keep posting their banter about how SCMS is not needed.

They spout off and never really offer anything credible or verifiable except their anger and disgust of their perceptions.

I applaud you for the breath of fresh air in this pig of a thread

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Notice how once again Ms Yes and the other
> SCites
> > forget to mention the surplus seats at Lake
> > Braddock? Perhaps because it is the North
> > Silverbrook area that would be most likely to
> be
> > redistricted. If the Silverbrookers were
> smarter,
> > they wouldn't be denying the LBSS potential but
> > perhaps think of another SCSS neighborhood that
> > could be redistricted, ie Newington Forest.
>
> __________________________________________________
> __________
>
> The extra seats simply do not exist at LBSS. In
> fact, somebody goofed the projections by HUNDREDS
> (imagine that...) and the school is technically
> PACKED.


Read this,

Dean

I reviewed the CIP for 2009-13 for Lake Braddock HS and Middle School.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock HS is 2725-the current enrollment is 2459.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock MS is 1350-the current enrollment is 1311.

That equals under capacity of 305.

How is FCPS now saying that LB is at capacity?


Packed, BS

I do not have the data to cite in front of me, but I'll play your game...

_______________________________________________________________

Read this,

Dean

I reviewed the revised CIP for 2009-13 for Lake Braddock
HS and Middle School.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock HS is
2725-the current enrollment is 2759.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock MS is
1350-the current enrollment is 1316.

That equals an over capacity and we should break ground on the South County Middle School ASAP!




Packed? How could our number be continually WRONG!?!?!?!

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not have the data to cite in front of me, but
> I'll play your game...
>
> __________________________________________________
> _____________
>
> Read this,
>
> Dean
>
> I reviewed the revised CIP for 2009-13 for Lake
> Braddock
> HS and Middle School.
>
> The listed capacity for Lake Braddock HS is
> 2725-the current enrollment is 2759.
>
> The listed capacity for Lake Braddock MS is
> 1350-the current enrollment is 1316.
>
> That equals an over capacity and we should break
> ground on the South County Middle School ASAP!
>
>
>
>
> Packed? How could our number be continually
> WRONG!?!?!?!


BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DUE SIMPLE MATH,YOU NEED TO TAKE MATH AGAIN.

305 UNDER CAPACITY AT LB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DUE SIMPLE MATH,YOU NEED TO
> TAKE MATH AGAIN.


________________________________________________________

I cannot DO what??? LMAO!!!!

Yes - you have won. The BOS found 5 million to bond in each of 2 years. Guess other stuff will be bumped on completion dates. P'Caso [sex offender unit] of our police was funded with money procurred via a grant.

FX no longer has the full funding and the county might be short 3 detectives. I would rather fund these detectives and stick some kids on a bus to Lake Braddock.

The BOS made a choice. Sexual predators and children V SOCO. Not a proud moment in the history of this county. What about the 2000 student high school target enrollment?

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MS Yes Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We have all been "screwed" by Facilities
> inablity
> > to make accurate forecasts and projections and
> by
> > always taking the easy way out. Maybe for
> once,
> > they'll get it right. Lee and Hayfield are
> > excellent schools, however Lee is over 100%
> > utlized, Hayfield will continue to receive
> > students thru the 2011 boundary phase-in and
> will
> > be at 95% capacity. The need is clear, the
> facts
> > are clear. This is not about entitlement, race,
> > wealth, or pitting communities against each
> other.
> > We should all be working to find the best
> > solutions for all our kids....
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> MS YES, do not be discouraged by the 8 or 9 people
> here who keep posting their banter about how SCMS
> is not needed.
>
> They spout off and never really offer anything
> credible or verifiable except their anger and
> disgust of their perceptions.
>
> I applaud you for the breath of fresh air in this
> pig of a thread

Since Gerry Connelly said that illegals are welcome here and the population of FCPS increased by 1500 students this year. Dr. Dale said that they are expecting an additional 1,000 in the fall, students they did not expect before this year.

I suggest that with three new schools in SOCO, send all illegals to SOCO HS, SOCO middle school and the Laureal Hill ES.

MS supporters-call Dean Tistadt's office and ask him if LBHS is full?

You are a bunch of liars and you know it.

You bought Storck. Bradsher lives in the neighborhood and the rest of the SB members are a bunch of pathetic wimps.

This is what apathy gets you Fairfax County taxpayers and parents.

And our kids suffer and our grandkids inherit this debt.

Way to mortgage our kids future BOS and SB. You are the ones who need a morality test? We know you will fail miserably. Our kids have more integrity and honesty in them then you could ever hope for.

Time will tell. Five years from now we will have schools at 75 percent capacity but the SOCO lot will have their new school.

Good for them.

Dan Storck is for sale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MS supporters-call Dean Tistadt's office and ask
> him if LBHS is full?
>
> You are a bunch of liars and you know it.
>
> You bought Storck. Bradsher lives in the
> neighborhood and the rest of the SB members are a
> bunch of pathetic wimps.
>
> This is what apathy gets you Fairfax County
> taxpayers and parents.
>
> And our kids suffer and our grandkids inherit this
> debt.
>
> Way to mortgage our kids future BOS and SB. You
> are the ones who need a morality test? We know you
> will fail miserably. Our kids have more integrity
> and honesty in them then you could ever hope for.
>
> Time will tell. Five years from now we will have
> schools at 75 percent capacity but the SOCO lot
> will have their new school.
>
> Good for them.

I know some think this is all about Storck/Bradsher acting on behalf of their own communities to the detriment of the greater good, but how much of this is due to the county trying to send a message that it will bend over backwards to get the extra jobs at Fort Belvoir, even if means building a school that really isn't necessary?

The same thing was going on when the county decided to turn TJ into a magnet school back in the 80s. None of the schools were considered failing schools at the time, and the county was producing a lot of National Merit Scholars, etc., but the county decided that a science/tech magnet school would send a strong message to businesses that Fairfax was a pro-business jurisdiction.

Seems to me it may be deja vu all over again.

Seems to me it's deja vu all over again.

illegals are welcome in SOCO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since Gerry Connelly said that illegals are
> welcome here and the population of FCPS increased
> by 1500 students this year. Dr. Dale said that
> they are expecting an additional 1,000 in the
> fall, students they did not expect before this
> year.
>
> I suggest that with three new schools in SOCO,
> send all illegals to SOCO HS, SOCO middle school
> and the Laureal Hill ES.

Put Transitional ESOL at SOCO. Connelly wants that for his Congressional Run. I hope providence District turns on him. Hyland sold out most of his constituents.

All that money for a few HOA's - Barrington is one. These people are despicable and fools.

The latest BRAC estimate I saw was a gain of 50 students.

Give me a break.

I am tired of being lied to by these crooks.

Bradsher will turn on people Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait until Bradsher says that SCSS doesn't
> belong to Crosspointe and Barrington. That was her
> main plank of her platform: that she and her
> neighbors BUILT SC nail by nail.
>
> She was a bitch, is a bitch and will always be a
> bitch.


This is all just hilarious to me. You people don't know anything about being on the school board, especially you, "Watchdog." Get a new hobby and quit stalking school board members, it's getting old.


Also, for you West Springfield people who think you're not getting any attention from Bradsher, get over yourselves. She is on the phone 24/7 trying to get things done for that school and to move it up on the CIP.

Furthermore, I am not being served any lobster over here... take it from someone who knows firsthand :-)

Lizzy if you and the SB cannot take the heat you better get out of the kitchen or resign .

Lizzy what school or schools are you going to screw by moving WSHS up on the CIP list?

Lizzy it is all about what you have failed to do and how you do things in your own corrupt way.

PEOPLE AGAINST BRADSHER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lizzy if you and the SB cannot take the heat you
> better get out of the kitchen or resign .
>
> Lizzy what school or schools are you going to
> screw by moving WSHS up on the CIP list?
>
> Lizzy it is all about what you have failed to do
> and how you do things in your own corrupt way.

Right now West Springfield isn't mentioned in the CIP at all. The usual steps would be to get funding for a planning study first and then, in the next cycle, get funding for actual renovations.

Perhaps all the prior poster meant is that Liz Bradsher will work hard to get WSHS included in the next CIP. If so, more power to her. OTOH, if Bradsher thinks she can leapfrog West Springfield over other schools that have already been identified in the CIP as having more pressing needs, however, she should think long and hard. The taxpayers and parents are losing trust in the SB, and watching their actions far more carefully than before.

I don't think that ANY project should bump a current project already on the CIP. Liz wants to push 2, an unneeded middle school and a somewhat-needed-but-can-wait renovation project for a currently existing hgh school. Interesting that both schemes are in her district. I thought that the Dems were the porkbarrel project prodigies. Bradsher is a RINO.

Bradsher is LEAPFROGGING construction of the South County Middle school over other projects. IF Fairfax County sells-trades a public asset or brokers a deal then why does the money from it have to go to South County?

Robinson did not get a full renovation. Should all areas of the county pursue their own deals? That is chaotic and diverts time and energy on the part of staff.

What's the point of a county wide school division? Not much at this point. If FCPS split up would the pieces get more state funding than currently comes in to Fairfax?

There are going to be lots of angry parents in this and next year's budget cycle. More than can be imagined. Could Connelly have eroded some support base for his 11th district election?

Does anyone know the backlog figure?

I thought it was like $700 million in unfunded projects??

Lizzie Bordon has a lot of nerve cutting in line for WSHS.

She has used up her political capital on the SOCO whores.

She'll figure it out eventually.

Last I checked, voters had a choice in the election.

Each person was clear on their platform and Liz Bradsher won by chunk over her opponent, Ramona Morrow. A BIG CHUNK!!!


Get over it. Really!

Lots of hatred on this BLOG by people who are complaining about what? The democratic process, people standing up for their kids and what they believe in, actually getting out and doing something to make a difference?

Really Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of hatred on this BLOG by people who are
> complaining about what? The democratic process,
> people standing up for their kids and what they
> believe in, actually getting out and doing
> something to make a difference?


The people in Western Fairfax County did stand up for their children and what they believed in, but they were F--KED by the FCPS SB.

CIP Backlog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know the backlog figure?
>
> I thought it was like $700 million in unfunded
> projects??
>
> Lizzie Bordon has a lot of nerve cutting in line
> for WSHS.
>
> She has used up her political capital on the SOCO
> whores.
>
> She'll figure it out eventually.


SHE WILL NEVER GET IT BECAUSE SHE IS ALL ABOUT HERSELF.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bradsher is LEAPFROGGING construction of the South
> County Middle school over other projects. IF
> Fairfax County sells-trades a public asset or
> brokers a deal then why does the money from it
> have to go to South County?
>
> Robinson did not get a full renovation. Should
> all areas of the county pursue their own deals?
> That is chaotic and diverts time and energy on the
> part of staff.
>
> What's the point of a county wide school division?
> Not much at this point. If FCPS split up would
> the pieces get more state funding than currently
> comes in to Fairfax?
>
> There are going to be lots of angry parents in
> this and next year's budget cycle. More than can
> be imagined. Could Connelly have eroded some
> support base for his 11th district election?


The SOCO middle school is scheduled to be built in 2017, no moving up, stay in line.

I'm not sure how she's about herself when she has done nothing but fight for the kids in Springfield. She gets it and that's why she ran for SB and won.

Not sure what those people complaining about west Springfield mean becuase it got renovated in the early 90's. Thats when they got the addition. I happen to know that the a/c system was updated. All school have heating/cooling troubles, a lot of times its just 1 or 2 classrooms. Wear a sweatshirt or open the windows.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure what those people complaining about west
> Springfield mean becuase it got renovated in the
> early 90's. Thats when they got the addition. I
> happen to know that the a/c system was updated.
> All school have heating/cooling troubles, a lot of
> times its just 1 or 2 classrooms. Wear a
> sweatshirt or open the windows.


__________________________________________________________________

Don't confuse the subject with any facts, those are not welcomed in any FCSB threads. LOL

I am new to the conversation but not the issue so please forgive me if this ground has already been treaded upon. The people who reside in Lorton [not Fairfax Station (with the Lorton address), not Laurel Hill, not Mason Neck -- even though all are part of Lorton ) are the ones most deserving of attending the new schools in the South County area because they are the ones who have suffered with the stigma that has been attached to the Lorton name for the past 100 years. It is they who endured the prison; it is they who have been discriminated against, and it is they who should share in the rewards that have accrued to all of the newer residents of that area. Unfortunately, they are not the ones who show up at the School Board meeting or community rally or political fundraiser so their voice is rarely, if ever, heard. The need for a middle school goes beyond seats. It gets to the heart of bridging a racial divide that is growing ever wider in this part of the county because having the capacity to fit 4000 kinds in grades 7-12 is what is needed to accomodate all of Lorton's children, not just the select few. Lorton has no defined geographic boundary, just a zip code, but it is a community that is still defining itself, especially in the wake of the prison closing. By building the middle school, you do more than alleviate an overcapacity problem at SCSS. You heal a region that is on the brink of tearing itself apart because people will define 'community schools' in whatever way fits their biases. Racism and bigotry have no place in modern society and especially in Fairfax County. A public school serves as the institution that brings all people together (or at least their sons and daughters). Yes, there is still capacity at Hayfield (for the moment) and yes, there may be some capacity at Lake Braddock as well, but busing kids to those schools (which would be anywhere between 7 and 15 miles away) doesn't provide the neutral ground where all of Lorton's children can live, work and learn together.

Sounds like the Lorton champion is saying that the people who have a Lorton address have been DISCRIMINATED against for years by the people who live in Fairfax Station, Mason Neck and Laurel Hill.

He states, "You heal a region that is on the brink of tearing itself apart because people will define 'community schools' in whatever way fits their biases. Racism and bigotry have no place in modern society and especially in Fairfax County".

I wonder if the school board and FCPS have played a big part in the division that exist in the South County area? Is it because the SB told the students along route one that they have to go to Hayfield and that the student who live in Mason Neck could leap over the route one students and could go to SCSS.

Is it because these people do not show up at School Board meetings or community rally or political fundraiser so their voice is rarely, if ever, heard.

Is it because these people do not have the money to give SB members?

BIG PROBLEMS IN SOCO FOR FCPS.

Never mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2008 09:56AM by MBF.

Not sure what your lovefest is with Bradsher but the reason people resent her is because she is taking more than her share.

This SB tries to play nice and give ALL members what their district deserves. Lorton and SOCO have been taken care of given all their new shiny schools. Let's save some of the money for the aging facilities in Falls Church and other areas.

Nobody made you move to Lorton-that was your choice.

The South County area is going through a transformation, not unlike South Riding and Ashburn, where once sparcely inhabited areas become the next suburb. There are always growing pains in these situations and because of the new growth, schools are needed. The Lorton area is full of wonderful heritage and history and much of that is being incorporated into the new Lorton. Your statement above is so true, "A public school serves as the institution that brings all people together," and that includes the old and new residents. Everyone in Lorton benefits from having new schools in the community.

The "community school" crap is getting old. Most FCPS students commute great distances to get to their school. That is just the way it is.

Stop with the greed. You are taking resources away from schools that have greater needs than your kids.

At least have the guts to admit that you are selfish.

this is getting old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The "community school" crap is getting old. Most
> FCPS students commute great distances to get to
> their school. That is just the way it is.
>
> Stop with the greed. You are taking resources
> away from schools that have greater needs than
> your kids.
>
> At least have the guts to admit that you are
> selfish.


You got it right. The people in SOCO are a very self interest only group who only care about themselves and are supported by the corrupt Storck and Bradsher.

Really Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The South County area is going through a
> transformation, not unlike South Riding and
> Ashburn, where once sparcely inhabited areas
> become the next suburb. There are always growing
> pains in these situations and because of the new
> growth, schools are needed. The Lorton area is
> full of wonderful heritage and history and much of
> that is being incorporated into the new Lorton.
> Your statement above is so true, "A public school
> serves as the institution that brings all people
> together," and that includes the old and new
> residents. Everyone in Lorton benefits from
> having new schools in the community.

And what benefit are those new schools when everyone already paid for spots to sit your kids at adjacent schools? Prices of houses were high in Fairfax station [Barrington et al] when the prison was still open. You people are playing everyone for fools. If Connelly was NOT running for Congress would he be doing this?

How many school attendance areas does the 11th district cover? There are others and his opponents will be using this against him. Why was Steve Hunt not re-elected? He and Storck spent a lot of time on needs of fairfax station.

Will Storck irritate the voters in the Mount vernon and West Potomac Pyramid? lots of angry people at hollins meadows ? What about Kaye Kory's Army of Testifiers at Stuart? My guess is they are not going to be quiet ...I have no idea how this will play out since it's not just SOCO's money. Why not become your own school division?

If the Fairfax Station subdivisions that comprise North Silverbrook were redistricted to Lake Braddock, there would be plenty of room at the Lorton- zipcoded SCSS for Lorton residents. SCSS, a Lorton school, should be for Lorton residents first.

No doubt this will bite Connelly in the ass on election day once FC taxpayers add up all the numbers.

We are in a recession bordering on a depression for goodness sakes. The budget problems will continue for the next few years.

FCPS couldn't even cut $100 million from their $2 billion dollar budget. Folks were outraged at the idea of paying for AP/IB tests, sports teams and the like.

Who is going to pay the $1 billion that FCPS has racked up in debt over the years? Who is paying the $50 million in interest that accrues on that debt each year?

Look at the CIP. Look at all the schools that are in dire need of renovations. Look at what Loudon County had to do with their CIP because of lack of funds. They don't have enough money for new roofs and road paving.

Are you SOCO nuts blind? WE CAN'T AFFORD YOUR NEW SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to Hayfield. Go to MT. Vernon. Go to Lake Braddock. Go to Lee.

Stop this madness.

THE SOUTH COUNTY SOLUTION GROUP AND THE SOUTH COUNTY FEDERATION INDICATED THAT THEY HAVE 27 MILLION DOLLARS? I say that they are full of shit and they have no money in their piggybank for the new MS.Ask them to show us the money?

All you get from these people is BS and more BS.





Connelly will regret this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt this will bite Connelly in the ass on
> election day once FC taxpayers add up all the
> numbers.
>
> We are in a recession bordering on a depression
> for goodness sakes. The budget problems will
> continue for the next few years.
>
> FCPS couldn't even cut $100 million from their $2
> billion dollar budget. Folks were outraged at the
> idea of paying for AP/IB tests, sports teams and
> the like.
>
> Who is going to pay the $1 billion that FCPS has
> racked up in debt over the years? Who is paying
> the $50 million in interest that accrues on that
> debt each year?
>
> Look at the CIP. Look at all the schools that are
> in dire need of renovations. Look at what Loudon
> County had to do with their CIP because of lack of
> funds. They don't have enough money for new roofs
> and road paving.
>
> Are you SOCO nuts blind? WE CAN'T AFFORD YOUR NEW
> SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Go to Hayfield. Go to MT. Vernon. Go to Lake
> Braddock. Go to Lee.
>
> Stop this madness.

Another poster noted that Hayfield lost a huge chunk of its student body when SCSS was built. Now its SAT scores are the lowest in the county.

Even so, the county claims in the CIP that attendance at Hayfield High will increase from 1582 in 2007 to over 2000 in 2012.

Does this seem realistic? Will this growth occur if test scores are plummeting? Shouldn't the school board be more concerned with preventing a death spiral at Hayfield than building another new school in SC? I read the post about how a new school in Lorton would "heal" and "unite" the community, but seems like there's a huge problem looming next door, not to mention empty seats.

Inquiring Mind – that is true, Hayfield has many empty seats. They also have low test scores. The Hayfield community doesn’t want the route 1 students to come back to their school, so they say they don’t have the room. My guess is they want to fill up Lake Braddock with the Silverbrook students and keep the route 1 students at South County. Once this is done, they can choose students from another area, maybe Springfield, to fill up the seats. Pretty tricky

Don't use scare tactics. Even if there was a need, Lee and WSHS aren't close enough to Hayfield to get redistricted there. Lee and West Springfield are also not overcrowded or under capacity. LB, MV, and Hayfield have the extra room. SCSS has the excess students.

Inquiring Mind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another poster noted that Hayfield lost a huge
> chunk of its student body when SCSS was built.
> Now its SAT scores are the lowest in the county.
>
> Even so, the county claims in the CIP that
> attendance at Hayfield High will increase from
> 1582 in 2007 to over 2000 in 2012.
>
> Does this seem realistic? Will this growth occur
> if test scores are plummeting? Shouldn't the
> school board be more concerned with preventing a
> death spiral at Hayfield than building another new
> school in SC? I read the post about how a new
> school in Lorton would "heal" and "unite" the
> community, but seems like there's a huge problem
> looming next door, not to mention empty seats.

Hayfield is getting a phase-in from the second South County boundary process. That process cancelled the west end movement to Lke Braddock. I think Storck might have tried for some amendment that those moved out to Hayfield get to return to South County. I don't know if it passed - in 2012 the current South County building will have projected 1892 in a 1700 capacity site.

With a separate middle school what is currently used as a secondary school [1700 + 800=2500] would have 508 EMPTY SEATS.

Nothing bordering it is overcrowded so what the heck do they plan to do with it?

Domino kids out of modulars with Robinson into LB , LB into SOCO?

Seeing the 508 plus the over 800 at Mount Vernon I am simply in shock.

There is an article about Tom Davis an his Lorton Legacy in the Connection.

Schools System Pursues Second Headquarters

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=313932&paper=68&cat=104

THE FCPS SYSTEM IS OUT OF CONTROL. I believe JACK DALE AND THE SB HAVE NO IDEA ON HOW TO MANAGE WITH A decrease in the school system’s capital budget.

Money for a new (CASTLE) building? How about reducing classroom size? How about renovations to schools that are 40 years old? How about more teachers?



Schools System Pursues Second Headquarters

Fairfax County Public Schools is still pursuing a deal to purchase a second central administration building in Merrifield despite a downturn in the county budget and a possible decrease in the school system’s capital budget.

School officials have pursued a "twin" to the school system’s first central administration building, called Gatehouse I, since 2005.

Fairfax County Public Schools owns a plot of land near the first building where it intended to build its second headquarters.

But the schools chief operating officer Dean Tistadt said it could be more fiscally prudent in the long run to buy an existing building occupied by the American Red Cross than to construct a new a headquarters. The Red Cross building faces and already shares a parking lot with Gatehouse I.

Tistadt admits he could be facing an uphill battle with the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, who is already squeezed tight for funding. He could not say how much the purchase could cost the county because of contract negotiations with the building’s owners.

Fairfax County Board of Supervisors chairman Gerry Connolly said he had not seen a proposal to purchase a second headquarters for the school system but that it might be tough for the county to make that type of purchase at this time.

"Given how difficult the budget situation is, there is going to be heavy burden on those advocating for that at this time. … It is going to be hard to justify an additional headquarters for the school system," said Connolly.

— Julia O’Donoghue

Why do so many of you say there is room at Lake Braddock? There isn't. Come spend a day with me and you'll see that we are full - hallways full, cafeteria full, everything full!

Not sure why I am posting this message anyway, all of you "experts" seem to have all the answers to everything... even if you don't have any of the facts.

Go Bruins!

Bruin Booster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do so many of you say there is room at Lake
> Braddock? There isn't. Come spend a day with me
> and you'll see that we are full - hallways full,
> cafeteria full, everything full!
>
BB - Most of us understand that LB is currently close to capacity; the issue is that the county projects that, in five years, enrollment at both the high school and middle school will decline from current levels by @ 600 students. So the issue is whether the School Board should push forward with plans to build a new middle school in South County that would be opened at that time or later, when other schools adjacent to South County such as Lee, Hayfield and Mount Vernon are also expected to have extra capacity.

I know that doesn't make LB seem any less crowded today (3800 students between the high school and middle school are a lot!) but that's why people keep raising the issue. Many of us feel there are older schools that need to be maintained or renovated first and that the planning process in recent years haasn't allocated resources fairly. We're not necessarily the experts with all the answers, but we're also not sure the School Board is asking the right questions.

Not So Obvious – that is true, Lake Braddock is at capacity now. Projections, made by the school board, are sometimes wrong. What happens when the school board sends students to Lake Braddock and they are over capacity in the future? I don’t think a middle school should be built, I think the school board should look at all the schools around South County and do a major boundary study/shift. Woodson, Robinson, Lake Braddock, West Springfield, South County, Hayfield, Mt. Vernon, W. Pot, Annandale, Edison, and any others in the area need to be fixed. Yes many parents would be upset, but it is the right thing to do. The schools could be better balanced and parents would feel better about the study.

What is truly ironic is that Connelly granted FCPS the $60 million for Gatehouse I but wanted FCPS to redoce the number of our kids in trailers. Now here we are 5 years later with even MORE trailers and talking about Gatehouse II.

What troubles me the most is that this school system sends a very bad message to the students when they are expected to attend schools in deplorable conditions while they lavish in their Taj Mahal.

Not So Obvious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BB - Most of us understand that LB is currently
> close to capacity; the issue is that the county
> projects that, in five years, enrollment at both
> the high school and middle school will decline
> from current levels by @ 600 students.

That statement is no longer true... even Tistadt and Dale have finally admitted that their projections for Lake Braddock to lose students is no longer unreliable. And the actual numbers for the last two years have shown INCREASES here, not decreases as projected.

It is now FCPS -- not the South County folks -- who say they can't do a boundary move from SOCO to LB.

LB is full, period, end of story.

I know some people are "bitter" over the SL situation and so they "cling" to their hatred of SOCO, but don't we at LB don't want to be used as pawns in your twisted revenge games.

no room at the LB inn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not So Obvious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BB - Most of us understand that LB is currently
> > close to capacity; the issue is that the county
> > projects that, in five years, enrollment at
> both
> > the high school and middle school will decline
> > from current levels by @ 600 students.
>
> That statement is no longer true... even Tistadt
> and Dale have finally admitted that their
> projections for Lake Braddock to lose students is
> no longer unreliable. And the actual numbers for
> the last two years have shown INCREASES here, not
> decreases as projected.
>
> It is now FCPS -- not the South County folks --
> who say they can't do a boundary move from SOCO to
> LB.
>
> LB is full, period, end of story.
>
> I know some people are "bitter" over the SL
> situation and so they "cling" to their hatred of
> SOCO, but don't we at LB don't want to be used as
> pawns in your twisted revenge games.

OK - clarification noted. I have no agenda to engage in a "twisted revenge game," particularly when Lake Braddock is involved (don't ask). On the other hand, we should all be concerned if plans are being drawn based on projections that are acknowledged in short order to be inaccurate.

And, the fact remains that multiple HSs in the southeastern part of the county are projected to have excess capacity (and, in some cases, significant excess capacity) in five years, unless all the projections have been similarly revised. Why is it a "twisted revenge game" to suggest the SB should take this into account, shortly after schools in the western part of the county were RD'd in part on the justification that 2000 students was an ideal size?

SOCO Middle school Nazis who keep saying Lake Braddock is full are liars.

Ask Dean Tistadt. As of last week the number was 300.

You really don't help your cause when you make false statements.

Not So Obvious Wrote:
> OK - clarification noted. I have no agenda to
> engage in a "twisted revenge game," particularly
> when Lake Braddock is involved (don't ask). On
> the other hand, we should all be concerned if
> plans are being drawn based on projections that
> are acknowledged in short order to be inaccurate.
>
>
> And, the fact remains that multiple HSs in the
> southeastern part of the county are projected to
> have excess capacity (and, in some cases,
> significant excess capacity) in five years, unless
> all the projections have been similarly revised.
> Why is it a "twisted revenge game" to suggest the
> SB should take this into account, shortly after
> schools in the western part of the county were
> RD'd in part on the justification that 2000
> students was an ideal size?

Not So Obvious:

I didn't meant to imply that your views were part of the "twisted revenge game"; I thought they were the kind of constructive dialogue I wish this forum had more of. But, please note the invective above from "UNnecessary middle school" including his distasteful Nazi reference. But let's not waste any time on that.

As to your point above, I agree that the school Board should take all relevant facts into account. From my perspective in LB, I am concerned that just as we have gotten our school into good shape, Tistadt is relentless in trying to stuff more kids in here because he sees kids as numbers to be manipulated for political purposes. He made a statement years ago that there would "never" be a need for a South County Middle School. And each time the facts contradict him, he comes up with a new way justify himself, and a lot kids may be hurt, including those in Lake Braddock.

And the one person who should be helping us -- Tessie Wilson -- seems as fanatical about trying to overcrowd LB as Stu did when forcing his RD scheme for SL et.al.

We should all stay focused on the purpose of schools - providing children with the best education; not increasing property values, not satisfying political viewpoints, not making sure that everyone "shares the pain" and most certainly not trying to justify a history of error at SC.

Let's continue to be fair, show respect and focus on the facts.

no room at the LB inn Wrote:
>
> And the one person who should be helping us --
> Tessie Wilson -- seems as fanatical about trying
> to overcrowd LB as Stu did when forcing his RD
> scheme for SL et.al.


You are so right, Tessie barely won re-election and now she is completely disregarding what her constituents want. Even our Lake Braddock PTA leaders are telling her not to overcrowd LB, yet she continues to oppose every attempt to resolve the SOCO situation before it comes back to bite us in the ass.

Get off your broom and listen to your constituents, Tessie: LAKE BRADDOCK IS FULL!

LB can take 300 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SOCO Middle school Nazis who keep saying Lake
> Braddock is full are liars.
>
> Ask Dean Tistadt. As of last week the number was
> 300.
>
> You really don't help your cause when you make
> false statements.

We don't have to ask Dean, he has already made it official SB policy that because of the unreliability of their prior projections that have proven false, they no longer support a boundary change. That's a fact that cannot be disputed.

Except, of course, by ignorant hate-mongers!

That's right, we are hate-mongers.

And we despise all you people in South County who have the temerity to think your children should have a middle school to attend.

We despise anyone who might succeed when we have failed.

We despise anyone who does not suffer when we suffer.

We despise anyone who disagrees with us and refuses to change their mind.

We despise anyone who focuses on facts rather than random opinions.

We despise anyone who actually goes to school meetings and gets involved in the process instead of just posting their rantings on the Internet.

We despise anyone who participates in our electoral system, rather than just stand on the sidelines and bitch about their powerlessness.

And we especially despise anyone who has the courage to run for public office, make hard decisions, and be held accountable for them, rather than just sit in front of their computers and post hate-filled accusations of corruption.

That's right, we despise you all.

(And your precious dog Toto too!)

The CIP issued in December 2007 states enrollment figures for LBHS and indicates an undercapacity number of 300.

What has changed in 4 months? Please cite an FCPS document that shows LBHS as "full".

"Full" does not mean we don't want any more kids.

Just the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CIP issued in December 2007 states enrollment
> figures for LBHS and indicates an undercapacity
> number of 300.
>
> What has changed in 4 months? Please cite an FCPS
> document that shows LBHS as "full".
>
> "Full" does not mean we don't want any more kids.


Go to the Minutes from the April 10, 2008 SB meeting and read the following:

"recent enrollment projections for Lake Braddock Secondary School were shown to have increased and that would preclude including them in a future boundary study."

Facts is Facts Indeed.

Or do all you SOCO-haters still dispute this FACT!

Oh, ok, so Danny boy and Lizzie Bordon mention in the meeting that LBHS is full and that makes it so.

Remember back in 2005 when Dan kept including all these neighborhoods into SOCO, which caused the overcrowding in the first place. He kept saying, oh its only 50 kids, oh its only 70 kids...next thing we know we have 450 to many.

Nice job Dan.

I think I will wait on the full report being issued May 23rd. If Dan and Liz would stop holding a gun to Tistadt's head maybe he could do his job without all the political interference.

I need to put my boots on to read the crap that you write.

facts is facts indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Go to the Minutes from the April 10, 2008 SB
> meeting and read the following:
>
> "recent enrollment projections for Lake Braddock
> Secondary School were shown to have increased and
> that would preclude including them in a future
> boundary study."
>
> Facts is Facts Indeed.
>
> Or do all you SOCO-haters still dispute this FACT!

Again - I'm not a SOCO hater nor would I propose to cram kids into Lake Braddoci or any other facility that the school doesn't have the ability to support. However, I ask the following:

1. The quoted comment in the 4/10 minutes appears to be just that: an unattributed comment that someone made at the meeting and which was summarized in the minutes. Who made the comment? Was it supported with facts? What information that was the basis for the projections in the December 2007 CIP is now believed to be incorrect?

2. Is SOCO middle school now a done deal and, if so, what is the point of the study to be delivered by 5/23/08 regarding different alternatives (see below)?

3. What would be the impact of building a new SC middle school be on the priorities identified in the December 2007 CIP? Does the new SC middle school now "leapfrog" or take priority over those other projects? If so, what purpose does the CIP serve?

"The motion to amend the substitute motion by adding the following language:
further direct the Superintendent to provide a written report to the School Board
by May 23, 2008, regarding all known concepts for addressing the overcrowding
of South County Secondary School; said report is to include (1) a conceptual
FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD
Regular Meeting No. 17 5 April 10, 2008
description of each alternative, including a boundary adjustment, as can be best
determined; (2) the funding sources, as appropriate, that support each
alternative; and (3) an assessment of the relative viability and risks of each
alternative, in both the short term and the long term passed 7-4, with Mr.
Center, Mr. Moon, Mr. Niedzielski-Eichner, Mr. Raney, Mrs. Smith, Mrs. Strauss,
and Mrs. Wilson voting “aye,” and Mrs. Bradsher, Ms. Hone, Mrs. Kory, and Mr.
Storck voting “nay,” and with Mr. Gibson absent."

I hate Toto too...and SOCO...and SL PTSA,,,and the SB...and I hate "hate-monger" for trying to be sooooo clever. Doink


hate-monger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's right, we are hate-mongers.
>
> And we despise all you people in South County who
> have the temerity to think your children should
> have a middle school to attend.
>
> We despise anyone who might succeed when we have
> failed.
>
> We despise anyone who does not suffer when we
> suffer.
>
> We despise anyone who disagrees with us and
> refuses to change their mind.
>
> We despise anyone who focuses on facts rather than
> random opinions.
>
> We despise anyone who actually goes to school
> meetings and gets involved in the process instead
> of just posting their rantings on the Internet.
>
> We despise anyone who participates in our
> electoral system, rather than just stand on the
> sidelines and bitch about their powerlessness.
>
> And we especially despise anyone who has the
> courage to run for public office, make hard
> decisions, and be held accountable for them,
> rather than just sit in front of their computers
> and post hate-filled accusations of corruption.
>
> That's right, we despise you all.
>
> (And your precious dog Toto too!)

hate monger, we hate you and your cronies for what they stand for, BULL SHIT.



Free Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate Toto too...and SOCO...and SL PTSA,,,and the
> SB...and I hate "hate-monger" for trying to be
> sooooo clever. Doink
>
>
> hate-monger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's right, we are hate-mongers.
> >
> > And we despise all you people in South County
> who
> > have the temerity to think your children should
> > have a middle school to attend.
> >
> > We despise anyone who might succeed when we
> have
> > failed.
> >
> > We despise anyone who does not suffer when we
> > suffer.
> >
> > We despise anyone who disagrees with us and
> > refuses to change their mind.
> >
> > We despise anyone who focuses on facts rather
> than
> > random opinions.
> >
> > We despise anyone who actually goes to school
> > meetings and gets involved in the process
> instead
> > of just posting their rantings on the Internet.
> >
> > We despise anyone who participates in our
> > electoral system, rather than just stand on the
> > sidelines and bitch about their powerlessness.
> >
> > And we especially despise anyone who has the
> > courage to run for public office, make hard
> > decisions, and be held accountable for them,
> > rather than just sit in front of their
> computers
> > and post hate-filled accusations of corruption.
> >
> > That's right, we despise you all.
> >
> > (And your precious dog Toto too!)

Since the SOCO residences want their MS,then they need to take all students with Lorton as their home address.

Lorton address Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since the SOCO residences want their MS,then they
> need to take all students with Lorton as their
> home address.


Yeah, and all ESL, and all Spec Ed, and all children of illegal aliens, and all children of space aliens, and all former residents of South Dakota... no Wyoming!

I don't know, maybe it was Utah.

Now you have exposed yourself as a pure racist Utah, or maybe its SOCO. What is your problem? Is it that you only want white students in your new school?



Maybe it was Utah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lorton address Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since the SOCO residences want their MS,then
> they
> > need to take all students with Lorton as their
> > home address.
>
>
> Yeah, and all ESL, and all Spec Ed, and all
> children of illegal aliens, and all children of
> space aliens, and all former residents of South
> Dakota... no Wyoming!
>
> I don't know, maybe it was Utah.

Racist live in SOCO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now you have exposed yourself as a pure racist
> Utah, or maybe its SOCO. What is your problem? Is
> it that you only want white students in your new
> school?
>

And you have exposed yourself as pure Utah, Racist. Or maybe just this whole idiotic string of messages came from Utah. Think about it.

Does anyone interested in schools or students really pay attention to this garbage?

I mean besides the trolls... for the entertainment value.

Please tell the folks why you are posting garbage on this site?


Garbage in, garbage out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Racist live in SOCO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now you have exposed yourself as a pure racist
> > Utah, or maybe its SOCO. What is your problem?
> Is
> > it that you only want white students in your
> new
> > school?
> >
>
> And you have exposed yourself as pure Utah,
> Racist. Or maybe just this whole idiotic string
> of messages came from Utah. Think about it.
>
> Does anyone interested in schools or students
> really pay attention to this garbage?
>
> I mean besides the trolls... for the entertainment
> value.

There is no need for this school because there are empty seat at other schools and FCPS does not have the millions of dollars needed to build it.

Another bond? Another loan that has to be payed off over the next twenty years?

Everyone who keeps saying you can solve the South County problems by sending them to Lake Braddock, please read the following excerpt from Dr. Jack Dale's memo to School Board Members sent at the beginning of April.

THERE IS NO ROOM AT LAKE BRADDOCK! Even Facilities staff, including Tistadt, have now admitted their "projections" of open seats is NOT proving true.

When will the people in the "underground" admit this fact and move on.

Leave Lake Braddock alone!

------------

FALL ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS – IMPLICATIONS FOR BOUNDARY STUDY

The Department of Facilities and Transportation Services has completed its spring updates of the student enrollment projections for the 2008 – 2009 school year. As expected, we are now projecting another increase. Based upon increases that have been experienced throughout the current school year and continuation of the underlying reasons for the increase, the fall 2008 projection now shows an increase of approximately 1,485 students over current February membership for General Education and GT students and an increase of 1,160 students in special programs (FECEP, Special Education, Preschool Resource, Court Alternative, etc.).

While the growth is occurring at all school levels and in various parts of the county, it is particularly noteworthy that as compared to prior projections, we are now showing an increase of nearly 60 high school students at Lake Braddock and over 25 high school students at South County. While the increase at Lake Braddock is not great, our prior projections were for decreased enrollments at that school and these projections were the basis for prior recommendations that Lake Braddock could accommodate new students from South County as a part of a boundary change.


Discussions with the principal of South County indicate that enrollment at that school needs to be reduced by 450 – 500 students to allow that school to return to a normal 7 period day. With the recent and projected growth at Lake Braddock, there is decreasing confidence that Lake Braddock will have sufficient capacity to relieve overcrowding at South County. This means that now we cannot recommend a boundary change between SCSS and LBSS to resolve overcrowding at SCSS.

-------------------

What the memo means is that all 450 kids can't go to LBHS. I don't see why that would have been the best choice anyways. Send some to Hayfield and some to MT Vernon. Why is this so damn hard for people to understand??

Lorton Valley people were jerked around. They were pulled from Hayfield, then sent to SOCO, then sent back to Hayfield. This is all STORCK's fault. He screwed up SOCO by letting too many kids in. He needs to fix it.

He is not going to cost us $50 million because of his incompetence.

60 students so now LBHS is full Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the memo means is that all 450 kids can't go
> to LBHS. I don't see why that would have been the
> best choice anyways. Send some to Hayfield and
> some to MT Vernon. Why is this so damn hard for
> people to understand??
>
> Lorton Valley people were jerked around. They
> were pulled from Hayfield, then sent to SOCO, then
> sent back to Hayfield. This is all STORCK's
> fault. He screwed up SOCO by letting too many
> kids in. He needs to fix it.
>
> He is not going to cost us $50 million because of
> his incompetence.


Yeah, SCREW South County!

When those 15,000 people moved in over the past 5 five years, they should have known this would happen.

They should known that that just because land was specifically set asisde for a high school AND a middle school as part of the federal land swap...

And just because the County, FCPS, and the SB had publicly stated their plans to build a high school AND a middle school...

And just because the School Board clearly stated that a high school would be built first to act as a temporary secondary school, with the middle school to be built once they had all moved in...

And just becuase Fairfax County no longer builds secondary schools...

And just because Fairfax County now has a policy against building ANY school larger than 2,000 students...

And just because the school is now packed, the parking lot full of trailers and an auxilliary gym, and the day extended by a strange split-bell schedule...

REALLY, they should have known that FCPS, the SB, and the rest of the County wouldn't hesitate to SCREW them out of their middle school and keep them packed in an ever enlarging high school acting as a secondary school...

All to try and avoid spending the money needed to provide the only fiscally responsible long term solution.

It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it is fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this problem for the long term, not just look for quick fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the future and hurting kids right now.

Fiscal Responsibility Needed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it is
> fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this
> problem for the long term, not just look for quick
> fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the
> future and hurting kids right now.


Fiscal Responsibility:

There is little use trying to make rational arguments here. The opposition to South County Middle School is one part of larger ongoing efforts to oppose all "unnecessary" education spending, whether it is for building schools, repairing schools, purchasing equipment, or raising salaries so that Fairfax can attract the highest quality teachers, this crowd is always on the other side. They never vote for school bond referendums and they won't be voting for any School Board member who actually supports education.

Let these people (or person) rant and rave. Thankfully, the vast majority of Fairfax residents don't agree with them. No use trying to convince them of the merits of your arguments; their bottom line is dollars and cents, not students and teachers.

There is a very easy solution to this problem, if Lake Braddock is full send the South County students to Hayfield and Mt. Vernon. Both schools have been renovated and have more seats than Lake Braddock. Do a boundary study on that area, I bet some Hayfield students could shift to Mt. Vernon and Hayfield would have more room for South County students. The money the school board plans to use for the middle school could go to schools that really need to be renovated. So simple.

Education Advocate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fiscal Responsibility Needed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it
> is
> > fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this
> > problem for the long term, not just look for
> quick
> > fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the
> > future and hurting kids right now.
>
>
> Fiscal Responsibility:
>
> There is little use trying to make rational
> arguments here. The opposition to South County
> Middle School is one part of larger ongoing
> efforts to oppose all "unnecessary" education
> spending, whether it is for building schools,
> repairing schools, purchasing equipment, or
> raising salaries so that Fairfax can attract the
> highest quality teachers, this crowd is always on
> the other side. They never vote for school bond
> referendums and they won't be voting for any
> School Board member who actually supports
> education.
>
> Let these people (or person) rant and rave.
> Thankfully, the vast majority of Fairfax residents
> don't agree with them. No use trying to convince
> them of the merits of your arguments; their bottom
> line is dollars and cents, not students and
> teachers.


You are incorrect in your statements. I oppose the South County Middle School yet support increasing teacher compensation, lowering class sizes, and facility renovation.

Wake the hell up people-the well is dry!

We borrow $300 million every 2 years and still can't keep up with the demands of our crumbling schools.

The current CIP is still underfunded by nearly $400 million.

I have nothing against these people from SOCO-I am opposed to wasteful spending and I am opposed to people cutting in line.

Let's take care of these schools that have not been renovated for 40 years. Let's get the thousands of kids out of the mold infested trailers-all 800 of them.

Put the money where the need is the greatest not where the people shout the loudest or who grease the SB members pockets (Dan-that is you).

No new middle school, no new wing, RD NOW AND SAVE THE MONEY.



WE SHOT OUR WAD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wake the hell up people-the well is dry!
>
> We borrow $300 million every 2 years and still
> can't keep up with the demands of our crumbling
> schools.
>
> The current CIP is still underfunded by nearly
> $400 million.
>
> I have nothing against these people from SOCO-I am
> opposed to wasteful spending and I am opposed to
> people cutting in line.
>
> Let's take care of these schools that have not
> been renovated for 40 years. Let's get the
> thousands of kids out of the mold infested
> trailers-all 800 of them.
>
> Put the money where the need is the greatest not
> where the people shout the loudest or who grease
> the SB members pockets (Dan-that is you).

I have not heard a coherent intelligent explanantion from these middle school supporters as to why they need a new school right away.

The money set aside for BRAC planning has been "shifted" to the planning of the school. I guess that means BRAC is not a huge threat otherwise why would they spend the money on something else?

This selling of land that is owned by the park authority is sketchy. I think they oppose the swap that has been proposed. They don't want to give up a good piece of land for a crappy one.

I am also confused as to why a developer is willing to aquire the land and build. We are in such a pickle with the unsold homes and foreclosures. It seems like an odd time to buy land to build unless of course it is at a fire sale price?

There are so many serious quesions that have gone unanswered by the SB members who are pushing for this school. I am a little shocked at the lack of fiscal constraint given the tough times we are in.

Education Advocate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fiscal Responsibility Needed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it
> is
> > fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this
> > problem for the long term, not just look for
> quick
> > fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the
> > future and hurting kids right now.
>
>
> Fiscal Responsibility:
>
> There is little use trying to make rational
> arguments here. The opposition to South County
> Middle School is one part of larger ongoing
> efforts to oppose all "unnecessary" education
> spending, whether it is for building schools,
> repairing schools, purchasing equipment, or
> raising salaries so that Fairfax can attract the
> highest quality teachers, this crowd is always on
> the other side. They never vote for school bond
> referendums and they won't be voting for any
> School Board member who actually supports
> education.
>
> Let these people (or person) rant and rave.
> Thankfully, the vast majority of Fairfax residents
> don't agree with them. No use trying to convince
> them of the merits of your arguments; their bottom
> line is dollars and cents, not students and
> teachers.


Or you could shift some people from Lake Braddock to Robinson to make room for South County Students.

Hayfield is growing in numbers and will be full within a few years. The projections for this year was also low for Hayfield so no room here either.

SOCO questions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not heard a coherent intelligent
> explanantion from these middle school supporters
> as to why they need a new school right away.
>
> The money set aside for BRAC planning has been
> "shifted" to the planning of the school. I guess
> that means BRAC is not a huge threat otherwise why
> would they spend the money on something else?
>
> This selling of land that is owned by the park
> authority is sketchy. I think they oppose the
> swap that has been proposed. They don't want to
> give up a good piece of land for a crappy one.
>
> I am also confused as to why a developer is
> willing to aquire the land and build. We are in
> such a pickle with the unsold homes and
> foreclosures. It seems like an odd time to buy
> land to build unless of course it is at a fire
> sale price?
>
> There are so many serious quesions that have gone
> unanswered by the SB members who are pushing for
> this school. I am a little shocked at the lack of
> fiscal constraint given the tough times we are in.


I have to say that I agree with one point you make, you are confused! Not sure how to straighten out this bundle of misdirected random questions. My suggestion, try reading some of the thoughtful posts made by supporters of South County Middle School on this thread -- but only if you are really interested in learning and don't already have a preconceived view that "SOCOers" are evil.

Bottom line: South County HIGH School was built as a HIGH SCHOOL and it was only to be used temporarily as a "Secondary School" until population filled in as planned. Well, folks moved in there more rapidly than planned (remember, the bubble boom occurred before the bubble burst) and the "temporary Secondary School" is now strained to the max, and so the folks in South County naturally want their pyramid completed with a middle school to go along with the high school.

Now you can get into heated arguments about the numbers game for as long as you like -- students, capacity, dollars -- but everyone has their own version.

One thing folks don't seem to understand is that South County doesn't want a "new" middle school; that sounds like they have an "old" one. They just want a middle school to go with their high school - and not a permanent "temporary" secondary school. Doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

I like the idea of redistricting some of the Fairfax Station kids who are currently in South County to Lake Braddock. I just looked at the boundary maps and there are plenty of LB/Fairfax Station kids whose commute to Lake Braddock is much longer than any commute the Silverbrook or Newington Forest kids would have to Lake Braddock

Not sure how there can be any confusion about students, capacity or dollars.

We know how many students are enrolled in neighboring schools. We know we have room in neighborings scools. Lastly, we know that we are in a SEVERE budget crunch.

If your best argument is the fact that you were promised this school and that the sign outside says high school and not middle school, then that is pretty weak.

The middle school was to be built in 2017. I will concede then, if we still need it then, that you can have your school in 9 years.

The begging really does not become you.

To dazed and confused.

What is wrong with you? Is SOCO the only ones with needs in Fairfax county? I think not. You need to be RD like others have Fairfax county in order to deal with under capacity and over capacity issues. Wait your turn like others have and will.
2017 is when you are scheduled, not before.

Please no tears.

NO MIDDLE SCHOOL FOR SOCO UNTIL 2017 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To dazed and confused.
>
> What is wrong with you? Is SOCO the only ones with
> needs in Fairfax county? I think not. You need to
> be RD like others have Fairfax county in order to
> deal with under capacity and over capacity issues.
> Wait your turn like others have and will.
> 2017 is when you are scheduled, not before.
>
> Please no tears.

Agreed. FYI - Lake Braddock wasn't built overnight when the population in that part of the county started to boom in the 1970s. There wasn't enough room at Robinson to absorb all the students either, so the middle schoolers were sent to other junior highs elsewhere with capacity, such as Holmes and Poe. The bus rides were by no means short, but the kids got an education, the school was built when planned, and the integrity of the planning process was preserved. Put SOCO Middle in the next CIP for 2017.

you are the one confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure how there can be any confusion about
> students, capacity or dollars.
>
> We know how many students are enrolled in
> neighboring schools. We know we have room in
> neighborings scools. Lastly, we know that we are
> in a SEVERE budget crunch.
>
> If your best argument is the fact that you were
> promised this school and that the sign outside
> says high school and not middle school, then that
> is pretty weak.
>
> The middle school was to be built in 2017. I will
> concede then, if we still need it then, that you
> can have your school in 9 years.
>
> The begging really does not become you.



OK, let's end the confusion over numbers and have serious discussion. I assume you are not simply going to point to hhe some stale and one-dimensional data contained in the last CIP and expect anyone to believe that is all there is. So, here's what I suggest.

Please post the current enrollment numbers from the April 2008 update for all the schools you believe are relevant, as well as the new five year projections that take this update into account. Would appreciate an analysis of the trends at feeder elementary schools to make this complete. Also, would like to know how you account Dr. Dale's recent memo stating that FCPS no longer recommends a boundary study to move students from South County to Lake Braddock.

Next, please post the capacities for each school, including an analysis of the difference between absolute "seats" and core capacities. Some explanation of how cafeterias, gyms and other non-classroom limitations affect the true capacity would be appreciated. Also, your analysis of how this may be changed due to the very recent capacity studies about to be considered by the School Board concerning issues such as the effect of electives on capacity calculations.

Finally, please post the cost you project for building South County Middle School in 2017, as well as cost estimates for building sooner than 2017, based upon current market and projected future conditions for both the consturction industry and the financial markets. Would appreciate you including a financial analysis of the short and long term costs of using some of the alternative and creative financing mechanisms that have been proposed, including the County's offer of $10 million to build South County Middle School.

I think this will be a good start for a serious discussion of a complicated matter. Hopefully, you and others are willing to do that rather than just name call the folks in South County.

serious discussion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> OK, let's end the confusion over numbers and have
> serious discussion. I assume you are not simply
> going to point to hhe some stale and
> one-dimensional data contained in the last CIP and
> expect anyone to believe that is all there is.
> So, here's what I suggest.
>
> Please post the current enrollment numbers from
> the April 2008 update for all the schools you
> believe are relevant, as well as the new five year
> projections that take this update into account.
> Would appreciate an analysis of the trends at
> feeder elementary schools to make this complete.
> Also, would like to know how you account Dr.
> Dale's recent memo stating that FCPS no longer
> recommends a boundary study to move students from
> South County to Lake Braddock.
>
> Next, please post the capacities for each school,
> including an analysis of the difference between
> absolute "seats" and core capacities. Some
> explanation of how cafeterias, gyms and other
> non-classroom limitations affect the true capacity
> would be appreciated. Also, your analysis of how
> this may be changed due to the very recent
> capacity studies about to be considered by the
> School Board concerning issues such as the effect
> of electives on capacity calculations.
>
> Finally, please post the cost you project for
> building South County Middle School in 2017, as
> well as cost estimates for building sooner than
> 2017, based upon current market and projected
> future conditions for both the consturction
> industry and the financial markets. Would
> appreciate you including a financial analysis of
> the short and long term costs of using some of
> the alternative and creative financing mechanisms
> that have been proposed, including the County's
> offer of $10 million to build South County Middle
> School.
>
> I think this will be a good start for a serious
> discussion of a complicated matter. Hopefully,
> you and others are willing to do that rather than
> just name call the folks in South County.

These are all reasonable and interesting analyses to assemble - however, the burden clearly should be on the School Board and the proponents of the middle school to prepare and defend them, not those who are asking for a delay or moratorium on a SOCO middle school until such evidence is gathered. Anything else suggests that the proponents of the SOCO school don't give a rat's ass about anyone else's needs or priorities - a conclusion that others posting have already reached but which I would prefer to believe is not the case.

One More Voice Wrote:
>
> These are all reasonable and interesting analyses
> to assemble - however, the burden clearly should
> be on the School Board and the proponents of the
> middle school to prepare and defend them, not
> those who are asking for a delay or moratorium on
> a SOCO middle school until such evidence is
> gathered. Anything else suggests that the
> proponents of the SOCO school don't give a rat's
> ass about anyone else's needs or priorities - a
> conclusion that others posting have already
> reached but which I would prefer to believe is not
> the case.


I completely agree. And it is a burden that must be met, as you correctly point out, by the proponents. And that is what the "SOCOers" have been working to demonstrate for several years. I think that burden has been met -- many of the facts and arguments have even been advanced here -- however, it is hard to have such a serious discussion here in the cyber wild west.

But these are the arguments that proponents on and off the School Board have been making and will continue to make to anyone willing to sit down and have a serious discussion about this. Not everyone may agree, but I would hope that they would first get all the facts -- not just read rantings on this or any anonymous blog -- before making up their minds. There should and will be a full School Board debate on this before any final decision is made.

I would also add that educating children takes more than just making the "numbers" work out, so I would hope you will agree that non-numerical arguments should also be part of such a serious discussion.

Dean Tistadt said that LBHS has 300 empty seats 10 days ago. I have the email. Nobody knows better than him.

If Dale is proposing no boundary study it is because either (1) Storck and Bradsher are insisting that they sit on it, or (2) that he is just as incompetent as he appears (examples such as the NCLB stand off and the morality report).

There are serious doubts about the integrity of the numbers being thrown about. That is more of a reason to do a boundary study.

MT VERNON is struggling. They need the same support and resources that was such a number one priority of the SB with South Lakes. Same scenario. It makes perfect sense to send SOCO kids there to help that school.

I love all the "hard work" that this SOCO Middle School group has done. Give me a royal break. You stole the BRAC money. You whined to the BOS for money for $10 million even though there is no money to be thrown around. You are trying to unload a piece of public land to a developer. Wow-what ingenuity. You guys really made a lot of money on your own. It's not like you had a bake sale or a car wash.

There is no immediate need for this school.

Read the WSJ article about how the ceiling tiles are falling on the kids at our nation's number one high school-TJ. Tell those kids you deserve the money more than they do. Tell the families at Edison and West Springfield how much more deserving you all are.

The selfishness and arrogance coming from you is astounding.

So the people of SOCO want a reason why they should not get a middle school?

How about a school budget that is short 55 million.

How about teachers not getting their three percent cost of living pay raise.

Save 60 million and give the teachers their pay raise

FYI


Teachers Criticize Fairfax Budget
School Funding At Issue as Plan Wins Approval

By Amy Gardner
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 29, 2008; B01



In affluent Fairfax County, it's never enough. That was the lesson yesterday for the county Board of Supervisors, which approved its annual budget amid criticism -- not for raising taxes but for inadequately funding the public schools.

Supervisors gave final approval yesterday to a $3.1 billion spending plan that raises the property tax by three pennies, to 92 cents per $100 of assessed value. Most of the new money, about $45 million, will go to the public schools. But it was less than the School Board had asked for -- and that drew a rebuke from teachers, who sent out a sharply worded postcard over the weekend in anticipation of the supervisors' vote.

The card, mailed to the Fairfax Education Association's 6,500 members, said supervisors have placed "your promised 3 percent raise in jeopardy." The card was referring to the likelihood that the School Board will trim teachers' cost-of-living increases to 2 percent to balance the school budget in the wake of the county's action.

Supervisors protested the criticism as they prepared to vote on the county budget yesterday. They noted not only that every two of the three pennies in new tax revenue will go to the school system, but also that it is the School Board's job, and not theirs, to decide how to spend the money.

"To suggest that this board has placed in jeopardy the compensation of teachers is disingenuous and unfair," said Gerald E. Connolly (D), chairman of the county board. "It's disheartening, because we're doing everything we can in a deteriorating revenue situation."

Leonard Bumbaca, president of the Fairfax Education Association, said the card was not intended to criticize supervisors but to point out where the budget fell short.

"They have done a lot," Bumbaca said. "But it doesn't change the situation that they didn't go all the way."

Supervisor Sharon S. Bulova (D-Braddock), chairman of the board's budget committee, said school supporters have always wanted more than the county has given them. She said it's a function of living in an affluent county with a vocal community of parents and teachers, many of whom would rather pay higher taxes than jeopardize school class size, teacher pay and other education programs.

Bulova recalled a year when supervisors gave the schools all the money they asked for, and still the School Board asked for more. "No matter what we give them, it's never enough," she said with a smile.

School Board member Phillip A. Niedzielski-Eichner (Providence) said the teachers' group is right to assume that cost-of-living increases could be reduced to 2 percent to balance the school budget. Eligible teachers will still receive step increases, which average 2.7 percent, he said.

"Employee compensation makes up 87 percent of our budget," he said. "So to realize a significant reduction in cost, we have to reduce people." Other likely consequences, he added, include increasing class size, delaying the county's expansion of full-day kindergarten to all elementary schools and postponing expansion of elementary foreign-language instruction.

Niedzielski-Eichner noted that the School Board reduced its budget proposal by $33 million before making its spending request to the county board. He also noted that projected enrollment increases and rising fuel costs eat up much of the new money that supervisors are providing. It's also critical, he said, that Fairfax keep its teacher salaries competitive with those in neighboring school districts to be able to attract the best applicants.

The School Board will hold a budget hearing in mid-May. It is scheduled to approve a final school budget at the end of May.

Supervisors struggled this year with their toughest budget cycle since the mid-1990s. Declining property assessments pinched projections of property tax receipts, federal interest-rate cuts squeezed county investment income, and inflation in gasoline prices pushed operations costs upward.

Supervisors rejected several cuts proposed earlier in the spring by County Executive Anthony H. Griffin, including reductions in performance-based pay raises for county employees and a market-rate pay adjustment for public-safety officers.

They also reduced from 12 cents to 11 cents Griffin's proposal to impose a property tax surcharge on commercial parcels, citing the softening of the commercial real estate market. The surcharge, authorized by the General Assembly last year as part of landmark transportation legislation, is dedicated to road and transit improvements.

Finally, the supervisors found $1 million to create a third "strike team" to police code violations in older neighborhoods, where crowding and property neglect have contributed to blight and a decline in property values.

What supervisors did not do is tap into the county's reserve fund -- because of what they fear could be an even more difficult budget season next year.

"We have to make the prudent decisions," said Supervisor Penelope A. Gross (D-Mason). "They're hard. We have to look at the next year rather than the one that's happening right now. It's not just what's in our pocket right now. It's what might not be there the next time we look."

serious it is Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dean Tistadt said that LBHS has 300 empty seats 10
> days ago. I have the email. Nobody knows better
> than him.

Prove it, let's see the email.

Not just some scrap, let's see the entire email.

Well. That's what I thought, pure BS!

Just like everything else you write here, pure BS!

Fill all empty seats at LB,Hayfield,Mount Vernon,Lee and other schools before any new schools are built.

RD the entire county now.

No more new schools Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fill all empty seats at LB,Hayfield,Mount
> Vernon,Lee and other schools before any new
> schools are built.
>
> RD the entire county now.


Part of the county was RD--the West County to certain areas, not the entire West County. Now it's South County turn along with MT Vernon, Lee, etc.