Who the fuck cares?

I believe Taxpayer was refering to the School Board schedule. I assume it notes that the CIP for 09-13 will be presented on 12/20 by the Superintendent.

huh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxpayer,
>
> Can you say exactly what to click on to find the
> new CIP? I looked on the board meeting link and
> couldn't find anything. When I used the FCPS
> search engine, all that came up were old CIPs.

fcps homepage
http://www.fcps.edu/index.shtml

green sidebar on left - click on school board
http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/index.htm

under school board meetings on bottom left click on BoardDocs (Agendas and Supporting Materials)

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

you will get to their Virginia School Board Assoc page and on the left are meeting dates - click on the little box for 12-20-07 then on the box for New Business:

6. New Business

6.01 FY 2009 - FY 2013 Capital Improvement Program - Recommendation to approve the FY 2009-2013 Capital Improvement Program as described in the narrative and in the Superintendent’s Proposed FY 2009-2013 Capital Improvement Program Summary (FTS; action scheduled 1/24/08)

when you click on the section for 6.01 the middle window chnages and you get the Agenda item- at the bottom is a link to the CIP - since it's big I recommend opening it in a new window

Its greatest merit was the taking up again of dialectics as the highest form of reasoning. The old Greek philosophers were all born natural dialecticians, and Aristotle, the most encyclopaedic of them, had already analyzed the most essential forms of dialectic thought. The newer philosophy, on the other hand, although in it also dialectics had brilliant exponents (e.g. Descartes and Spinoza), had, especially through English influence, become more and more rigidly fixed in the so-called metaphysical mode of reasoning, by which also the French of the 18th century were almost wholly dominated, at all events in their special philosophical work. Outside philosophy in the restricted sense, the French nevertheless produced masterpieces of dialectic. We need only call to mind Diderot's Le Neveu de Rameau, and Rousseau's Discours sur l'origine et les fondements de l'inegalite parmi less hommes. We give here, in brief, the essential character of these two modes of thought.

When we consider and reflect upon Nature at large, or the history of mankind, or our own intellectual activity, at first we see the picture of an endless entanglement of relations and reactions, permutations and combinations, in which nothing remains what, where and as it was, but everything moves, changes, comes into being and passes away. We see, therefore, at first the picture as a whole, with its individual parts still more or less kept in the background; we observe the movements, transitions, connections, rather than the things that move, combine, and are connected. This primitive, naive but intrinsically correct conception of the world is that of ancient Greek philosophy, and was first clearly formulated by Heraclitus: everything is and is not, for everything is fluid, is constantly changing, constantly coming into being and passing away.[A]

But this conception, correctly as it expresses the general character of the picture of appearances as a whole, does not suffice to explain the details of which this picture is made up, and so long as we do not understand these, we have not a clear idea of the whole picture. In order to understand these details, we must detach them from their natural, special causes, effects, etc. This is, primarily, the task of natural science and historical research: branches of science which the Greek of classical times, on very good grounds, relegated to a subordinate position, because they had first of all to collect materials for these sciences to work upon. A certain amount of natural and historical material must be collected before there can be any critical analysis, comparison, and arrangement in classes, orders, and species. The foundations of the exact natural sciences were, therefore, first worked out by the Greeks of the Alexandrian period , and later on, in the Middle Ages, by the Arabs. Real natural science dates from the second half of the 15th century, and thence onward it had advanced with constantly increasing rapidity. The analysis of Nature into its individual parts, the grouping of the different natural processes and objects in definite classes, the study of the internal anatomy of organized bodies in their manifold forms — these were the fundamental conditions of the gigantic strides in our knowledge of Nature that have been made during the last 400 years. But this method of work has also left us as legacy the habit of observing natural objects and processes in isolation, apart from their connection with the vast whole; of observing them in repose, not in motion; as constraints, not as essentially variables; in their death, not in their life. And when this way of looking at things was transferred by Bacon and Locke from natural science to philosophy, it begot the narrow, metaphysical mode of thought peculiar to the last century.

To the metaphysician, things and their mental reflexes, ideas, are isolated, are to be considered one after the other and apart from each other, are objects of investigation fixed, rigid, given once for all. He thinks in absolutely irreconcilable antitheses. His communication is 'yea, yea; nay, nay'; for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." For him, a thing either exists or does not exist; a thing cannot at the same time be itself and something else. Positive and negative absolutely exclude one another; cause and effect stand in a rigid antithesis, one to the other.

At first sight, this mode of thinking seems to us very luminous, because it is that of so-called sound commonsense. Only sound commonsense, respectable fellow that he is, in the homely realm of his own four walls, has very wonderful adventures directly he ventures out into the wide world of research. And the metaphysical mode of thought, justifiable and necessary as it is in a number of domains whose extent varies according to the nature of the particular object of investigation, sooner or later reaches a limit, beyond which it becomes one-sided, restricted, abstract, lost in insoluble contradictions. In the contemplation of individual things, it forgets the connection between them; in the contemplation of their existence, it forgets the beginning and end of that existence; of their repose, it forgets their motion. It cannot see the woods for the trees.

For everyday purposes, we know and can say, e.g., whether an animal is alive or not. But, upon closer inquiry, we find that his is, in many cases, a very complex question, as the jurists know very well. They have cudgelled their brains in vain to discover a rational limit beyond which the killing of the child in its mother's womb is murder. It is just as impossible to determine absolutely the moment of death, for physiology proves that death is not an instantaneous, momentary phenomenon, but a very protracted process.

In like manner, every organized being is every moment the same and not the same; every moment, it assimilates matter supplied from without, and gets rid of other matter; every moment, some cells of its body die and others build themselves anew; in a longer or shorter time, the matter of its body is completely renewed, and is replaced by other molecules of matter, so that every organized being is always itself, and yet something other than itself.

Further, we find upon closer investigation that the two poles of an antithesis, positive and negative, e.g., are as inseparable as they are opposed, and that despite all their opposition, they mutually interpenetrate. And we find, in like manner, that cause and effect are conceptions which only hold good in their application to individual cases; but as soon as we consider the individual cases in their general connection with the universe as a whole, they run into each other, and they become confounded when we contemplate that universal action and reaction in which causes and effects are eternally changing places, so that what is effect here and now will be cause there and then, and vice versa.

None of these processes and modes of thought enters into the framework of metaphysical reasoning. Dialectics, on the other hand, comprehends things and their representations, ideas, in their essential connection, concatenation, motion, origin and ending. Such processes as those mentioned above are, therefore, so many corroborations of its own method of procedure.

Nature is the proof of dialectics, and it must be said for modern science that it has furnished this proof with very rich materials increasingly daily, and thus has shown that, in the last resort, Nature works dialectically and not metaphysically; that she does not move in the eternal oneness of a perpetually recurring circle, but goes through a real historical evolution. In this connection, Darwin must be named before all others. He dealt the metaphysical conception of Nature the heaviest blow by his proof that all organic beings, plants, animals, and man himself, are the products of a process of evolution going on through millions of years. But, the naturalists, who have learned to think dialectically, are few and far between, and this conflict of the results of discovery with preconceived modes of thinking, explains the endless confusion now reigning in theoretical natural science, the despair of teachers as well as learners, of authors and readers alike.

An exact representation of the universe, of its evolution, of the development of mankind, and of the reflection of this evolution in the minds of men, can therefore only be obtained by the methods of dialectics with its constant regard to the innumerable actions and reactions of life and death, of progressive or retrogressive changes. And in this spirit, the new German philosophy has worked. Kant began his career by resolving the stable Solar system of Newton and its eternal duration, after the famous initial impulse had once been given, into the result of a historical process, the formation of the Sun and all the planets out of a rotating, nebulous mass. From this, he at the same time drew the conclusion that, given this origin of the Solar system, its future death followed of necessity. His theory, half a century later, was established mathematically by Laplace, and half a century after that, the spectroscope proved the existence in space of such incandescent masses of gas in various stages of condensation.

Well there you go Ferfux just proved that the middle school is unneccesary. Case Closed

Thanks Taxpayer for guiding us to the new CIP. If you don't agree with Ferfux's assessment perhaps you should look at the projections for Lake Braddock. As I have been stating over and over the room at Lake Braddock gets more and more each year enough to bring South County below capacity within four years. Hayfield while under capacity will reach to about 95 percent capacity on the High school side by 2013. Plan to use LBSS and do not build a middle school wasting our tax payers money. In fact I would bet that by 2013 a new middle school will still not be needed.

Dude Checker, check the CIP for your self and tell me I am wrong!

The CIP makes it clear. Less and Less Bruins makes room for Stallions.

The annual public hearings on school construction issues, known as the Capital Improvement Plan or CIP will be at 7 p.m. on Jan. 9, 2008 at Luther Jackson Middle School in Falls Church. Registration to speak is required in advance, and residents in South County are strongly urged to sign-up online beginning this Friday, Dec. 14 at 6 a.m. for a limited number of speaking slots.


I just saw this in the Connection and am not sure if there are speaking slots left. The speaking slots are for everyone so if you think the SCSS overcrowding ca be solved by using the excess seats at Lake Braddock et al, be sure to voice your opinion. There is no need for a middle school as long as there are undercapacity 7-12 schools that share SC's boundaries.

Connection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The annual public hearings on school construction
> issues, known as the Capital Improvement Plan or
> CIP will be at 7 p.m. on Jan. 9, 2008 at Luther
> Jackson Middle School in Falls Church.
> Registration to speak is required in advance, and
> residents in South County are strongly urged to
> sign-up online beginning this Friday, Dec. 14 at 6
> a.m. for a limited number of speaking slots.
>
>
> I just saw this in the Connection and am not sure
> if there are speaking slots left. The speaking
> slots are for everyone so if you think the SCSS
> overcrowding ca be solved by using the excess
> seats at Lake Braddock et al, be sure to voice
> your opinion. There is no need for a middle school
> as long as there are undercapacity 7-12 schools
> that share SC's boundaries.


There is undercapacity at LBSS in the out years of 2012 and 2013. By that time Hayfield will be nearly 100 percent capacity so Lake Braddock is the only viable solution to relieve overcrowding at SCSS

If you can't speak at the meeting, be sure to email the SB with your POV.

“Hayfield will be nearly 100 percent capacity “ who the hell wants to go to Hayfield, Lake Braddock is a better school. I don’t think Hayfield will have to worry about their school being overcapacity.

I am watching the boring FCPS CIP hearings just to hear the South County crew demanding a new middle school by 2012 when the free land dries up. They want bumps on the CIP of scheduled projects for which bond referendums have been passed. They want the 2 million in BRAC planning money for the project. Is everyone going to live there if they move at all? What about all the new housing at Ft Belvoir which is not part of South County?

Here's another school with computerized whiteboards but bacteria nd carpets have to ripped up and bathrooms don't work. And those ninnies can't go to Lake Braddock. West Springfield is an older dump yet these people won't go to new sites. One poor kid got so sick from the school bacteria she missed nine months of teaching and they gave her no homebound or decent on-line courses .

Addition at Langley anyone? South County Middle School? Mason district wants an elementartschool - hey Glasgow got about 400 extra spaces .

Isn't a new middle school on the CIP for 2015? Its only three years why the push now when they have a solution of overcrowding at SCSS. What is really going on is that if they stick to the original plan and wait till 2015 by then they may find that even by they may not need a middle school. So the school will have excess land to sell and renovate West Springfield. yea

Send all of route one, cut off at interstate 95, to Hayfield. Hayfield was just renovated and has so much room it can take on the route one area. That way no middle school is needed and South County will be under capacity.

Better yet,

Cut off the subdivisions west of Hooes and north of Silverbrook to get redistricted to Lake Braddock. Lake Braddock was just renovated and has so much room that it can take Barrington et. al. That way no middle school is needed and South County will be under capacity.

Hayfieldhasroom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Send all of route one, cut off at interstate 95,
> to Hayfield. Hayfield was just renovated and has
> so much room it can take on the route one area.
> That way no middle school is needed and South
> County will be under capacity.

BS- Hayfield does not have room and with the cost of transportation it's stupid to ask me to pay for busses to run AM/PM through mason neck then drop off at hayfield instead of South County. It's also stupid to run busses around Robinson pyramid and then drive them to lake braddock for GT. If the residences serving current South County were a separate school division then I would not care - they could tax themselves. But they are not and the fact is the crew that should be sitting at Lake braddock today was not part of the prison area.

That is correct. The Silverbrook area is not an incorporated town. SC should have been called Lorton High School and offered IB. I have a feeling that Crosspointe et. al. would be pounding the doors of Lake Braddock if that was to happen.

Isn't it funny how folks at "South County" for the moment want to kick out the southern most part of the county from this school. If they get there way and kick Mason neck and the Rt. one corridor out of South County then they can rename it Bradsher High.

The idea of sending Mason Neck and all the students on the Route 1 side of I-95 back to Hayfield will fix the SCSS overcrowding and eliminate the need for a new middle school. But as long as Dan Storck (creep) is on the board that won't happen. Rumor has it he was paid off by the Lorton Station developers to get them into SCSS. People would never buy a home that goes to Hayfield.

The idea of sending Barrington, North Crosspointe and all the students west of Hooes/north of Silverbrook to Lake Braddock will fix the SCSS overcrowding and eliminate the need for a new middle school. But as long as Liz Bradsher (bigot: as witnessed at her outburst last week at a West County meeting) is on the board, that won't happen. Rumor has it she is being financed by the Fairfax Station Silverbrookers to get them to stay in SCSS. Interesting that Lake Braddock isn't good enough for them. Too many minorities?

Hayfield is filling up while Lake Braddock is getting more room every year.

That is the bottom line, No middle school is neaded when room is coming to Lake Braddock

The ironic thing is that even South Lakes and Mount Vernon are among the top 20% of high schools in the country. I'll freely admit being a hypocrite on this regard -- my wife and I were looking at places in the Oakton and Madison districts.

We could do what is done in Missouri and divide FFX into 28 or however many school districts. Then each district would organize schools its way and negotiate with its neighbors if they want to do a boundary swap. Services could be coordinated as needed within the Fairfax Unified District, to which the individual districts within Fairfax contribute. The poorer districts would get the equalization revenue from Richmond as needed.

I mean, why should someone out at Westfields get to butt in a HSS/SCSS/LBSS dick-waving contest, or someone in Mason Neck get to complain about a SLHS/HHS/LHS/WHS pissing contest?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2008 08:28AM by formerhick76.

This middle school should be removed from the CIP - it's a disgrace in this budget climate. I'd be against it even if FX had the money.

South Lakes? That place should be used but nobody in this county should have to pay the extra costs for IB unless it's for their own kid. The budget show today had the tax rate at .89 and I think it should stay there.

Repeat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The idea of sending Barrington, North Crosspointe
> and all the students west of Hooes/north of
> Silverbrook to Lake Braddock will fix the SCSS
> overcrowding and eliminate the need for a new
> middle school. But as long as Liz Bradsher (bigot:
> as witnessed at her outburst last week at a West
> County meeting) is on the board, that won't
> happen. Rumor has it she is being financed by the
> Fairfax Station Silverbrookers to get them to stay
> in SCSS. Interesting that Lake Braddock isn't
> good enough for them. Too many minorities?


______________________________________________

Knowing Liz's position on the matter before the elections, you all had MORE than a fair chance at saying NO with your vote.

Seems the majority spoke and the majority said YES to Liz, middle school, and all

All Fairfaxers have the right to complain to all the School Board about this topic. It is not dead in the water no matter what the Bradsher Bigot and her cronies would have you believe. She is one vote and has angered enough people with her selfishness that she will not get what she wants.

There are already so many kids from the Silverbrook boundaries that are actually at Lorton for GT Center and will continue at Lake Braddock for GT Center in middle school. Our kids should be allowed to stay there for high school. Consequently our immediate neighbors deserve the superior education that Lake Braddock provides.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This middle school should be removed from the CIP
> - it's a disgrace in this budget climate. I'd be
> against it even if FX had the money.
>
> South Lakes? That place should be used but nobody
> in this county should have to pay the extra costs
> for IB unless it's for their own kid. The budget
> show today had the tax rate at .89 and I think it
> should stay there.


Well good luck getting your school. One vote won't do it.

Liz had no problem sending kids from other schools to South Lakes last night. Hopefully she will be as equally responsible by sending kids from overcapacity South County to undercapacity Lake Braddock. Remember it doesn't have to be the logical choice of her neighborhood to go. She can send Newington Forest kids just as easily.

Stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz had no problem sending kids from other schools
> to South Lakes last night. Hopefully she will be
> as equally responsible by sending kids from
> overcapacity South County to undercapacity Lake
> Braddock. Remember it doesn't have to be the
> logical choice of her neighborhood to go. She can
> send Newington Forest kids just as easily.

Liz Bradsher used the term NO school choice. Now that Stu Gibson got kids into South Lakes I expect him to move on this issue. Phil Nijilski-Eichner jumped on Raney's amendment with questions since it left out Falls Church.

So for anyone filling out the pupil placement forms- or anyone else- now is a great time to step up and fight for FCPS to not build the NEW South County Middle School. Last year Bradsher, Dave Albo, Tom Davis,Jerry Hyland had Bradsher's area removed complete from a boundary process. There was an amendment on them finding the money for the school and that got changed in the January 2008 CIP vote.

I noticed something - the 2 that started the Langley boundary gerrymandering were Republicans - Lou Zone [Hunter Mill] and Stu Mendelsohn [Dranesville]. Liz Bradsher is a Republican. Maybe Stu G and Phil NE will get partisan.

So get it off the CIP or we all will be paying for that.

What do you mean "people would never buy a home in the Hayfield district." Many new homes are being built and sold in the area especially in the Lorton Station area.

Stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz had no problem sending kids from other schools
> to South Lakes last night. Hopefully she will be
> as equally responsible by sending kids from
> overcapacity South County to undercapacity Lake
> Braddock. Remember it doesn't have to be the
> logical choice of her neighborhood to go. She can
> send Newington Forest kids just as easily.


What do you mean the Newington Forest kids can go to Lake Braddock? I thought the SB only wanted the Silverbrook area removed from South County? I thought they wanted the best at Lake Braddock?

Last year there were several options on the table. Send East of Rte 1 kids all to Hayfield, send some Newington kids to LB, send some Silverbrook kids to LB, and a couple of others. Amazingly enough, only Hayfield got kids sent there and Lake Braddock didn't absorb any. ALso amazingly enough, the FRL and ESOL rates went way down this year at SC. Fairfax citizens are now wise to Silverbrook Shenanigans and will insist that either North Silverbrook or Newington Forest get redistricts. Liz lives in the North Silverbrook area (Crosspointe to be exact) so my bet would be that it is the Newington Forest kids who get redistricted to Lake Braddock.

There are 911 comments to this blogpost here: http://fairboundaries.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-02-23T07%3A08%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=2

and two separate posts with over 2000 total comments here: http://fairboundaries.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-02-23T07%3A08%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=2

So will people unite and lobby to move them to Lake Braddock? Nobody wants to pay for this except some parents of about 300-400 kids a year.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So will people unite and lobby to move them to
> Lake Braddock? Nobody wants to pay for this
> except some parents of about 300-400 kids---TYPO
for 6 years of school.

I think the whole county should be writing to the SB. If they saw fit to move Oakton kids and Madison kids to SL (from AP to IB) and Chantilly kids to Oakton(AP to AP but a longer commute), there is no reason why the northwest corner of the current South County boundaries can't be redistricted to Lake Braddock. The commute would be longer but it would alleviate the overcapacity at SCSS and fill empty seats at LB.

We are all taxpayers and voters and we all have a right to voice our opinions about wasteful expenditures on an unneeded middle school.

I agree. If the SB can redistrict areas in the western part of the county, they should redistrict SC too! There are empty seats at Lake Braddock--USE THEM! The SC middle school is NOT needed!

While I keep hearing LB has all these magical (empty) spaces (which they really do not) and how shifting a few hundred kids to there would help a bunch, that is short-term thinking with flawed information.


The reality is, FCPS goofed on the numbers time and time again and their empty spaces at LBSS didn't happen like they thought.

ALso, with building going on in the SCSS area (still) and BRAC coming to affect the area (Still), in the long run there will be more factors causing overcrowding than one can forecast.

The funding for the SCMS is the only solution, as the immediate area is going to keep getting more and more crowded. Believe me, I went to the FCPS meetings and heard their BS projections.

..the first meeting out, they said building in the SCSS are will ONLY add 300 students and they figured it would not have much of an impact. Right...

If Lake Braddock is really near capacity, why does the school board still want to use that school? Didn’t they visit the school to see what it really has? If they can not use Lake Braddock, Hayfield and Mt. Vernon have empty seats. Shouldn’t the school board use these seats first? They could shift some students from Hayfield that boarder Mt. Vernon and then send students from South County to Hayfield. This sounds like a better idea than building a middle school when money is not available. I have been reading the blog for South Lakes, and the school board moved students from Oakton to South Lakes; let’s get the school board to move students to Hayfield and Mt. Vernon. These schools could really need the help. Unlike Lake Braddock, these schools have very low test scores and many empty seats. No middle school is needed. Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield NOW!

Actually it is more equitable to use LB and H for SC kids. All 3 are AP schools. All 3 are secondary schools.

Mt. Vernon needs to be included in the next boundary study. Lake Braddock can take very little from South County. Hayfield and Mt. Vernon must be used to help the over capacity issue. Send students from Hayfield to Mt. Vernon, and South County to Hayfield and the few seats at Lake Braddock. If these schools are not used, South County will still be over capacity and the middle school WILL be built! Don’t let this happen! Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield Now!

I agree that MV and H should both be used but I do not understand the resistance to Lake Braddock. It's a newly renovated building. It has higher SAT scores and SOL pass rates, it has the GT program for 7 and 8. More importanyly, it has space according to multiple predictions (both FCPS and the consultant report). What is wrong with LB?

I posted all three schools need to be used in the next study. Lake Braddock can only take few students from South County. Hayfield and Mt. Vernon are way under capacity and need students to help the schools. If all three schools are not used in the next study, South County will still be over capacity and the middle school will be built. Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield now!

So you really should be saying use Hayfield AND Lake Braddock AND Mount Vernon now. With all the fuss over redistricting AP to IB schools in Western Fairfax, no one will ever go to MV. :)

Langston sucks, they should convert it to a prison, theyve got all the criminals already

Huh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that MV and H should both be used but I do
> not understand the resistance to Lake Braddock.
> It's a newly renovated building. It has higher SAT
> scores and SOL pass rates, it has the GT program
> for 7 and 8. More importanyly, it has space
> according to multiple predictions (both FCPS and
> the consultant report). What is wrong with LB?

Lake Braddock has over 600 for 2012 - couple of hundred now. Those numbers DO NOT include the out of boundary people in the middle school GT center. That has people from Robinson, Irving, and SOUTH COUNTY. How many are there NOW whose base schools for elementary are Silverbrook and Newington Forest?

It has almost 300 GTC and is projected to have 300 up to 2012. Just doing a 4 way split on all schools that's 75 from South County there already.

This whole thing is about NOT moving the tip of Silverbrook, Bradsher's base school. They'd have less of a commute than many already at Lake Braddock and maybe less than the NEW Navy. Possibly about the same as the farthest west part of Fox Mill to South Lakes.

Notice the school board isn't jumping through hoops and turning Carson into a high school in this economy.

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I posted all three schools need to be used in the
> next study. Lake Braddock can only take few
> students from South County. Hayfield and Mt.
> Vernon are way under capacity and need students to
> help the schools. If all three schools are not
> used in the next study, South County will still be
> over capacity and the middle school will be built.
> Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield now!

________________________________________________________

Lake Braddock should off the table, unless folks can accept overcrowding ANOTHER school to the levels we have experienced elsewhere. It will happen.

I agree 100% on MV. Why isn't it used??? Why isn't a shift done between there and Hayfield? The answer is Dan Storck and Mason Neck. Mason Neck BEGGED to not go to MV a long time ago and has Storck on their side. Good for them, but the Middle School is then needed for that districting issue and for the overcrowding caused by FCPS' unrealistic numbers fromthe get-go on how much the new home construction would be impacting the SCSS numbers.

Again, moving a small number of students to LB is short-sighted and as other matters unfold that include BRAC, it is not responsible either.

MV and Hayfield are both much, much closer to Ft Belvoir than Lake Braddock. The BRAC impact will hit these 2 schools more severely.

The point is that not just one of these schools should absorb the surplus kids who are overcrowding SCSS. ALL 3 can be used if necessary. In fact, Hayfield and Lake Braddock do haveenough extra seats by themselves to handle SC overcapacityand then kids won't get redistricted from an AP to an IB school nor would they have to have a ms/hs situation instead of a secondary.

Silverbrook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MV and Hayfield are both much, much closer to Ft
> Belvoir than Lake Braddock. The BRAC impact will
> hit these 2 schools more severely.
>
> The point is that not just one of these schools
> should absorb the surplus kids who are
> overcrowding SCSS. ALL 3 can be used if necessary.
> In fact, Hayfield and Lake Braddock do
> haveenough extra seats by themselves to handle SC
> overcapacityand then kids won't get redistricted
> from an AP to an IB school nor would they have to
> have a ms/hs situation instead of a secondary.


_________________________________________________________


The point you (and others) miss, is BRAC does not mean people will ALL live in the Ft Belvoir area. The whole corridor from there to the EPG and its fringes will be affected.

In fact, if enough change comes, maybe the untouchable WSHS might be affected (read: overcrowded) by this all.

One other thing to consider, as the LBSS area is an older area, as empty-nesters move away, their homes may be purchased by folks with kids (again) which would start the cycle all over again as it did in the late 70s and 80s in the area.

Look at the long term vs. the here and RIGHT(!!!) NOW.

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Silverbrook Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MV and Hayfield are both much, much closer to
> Ft
> > Belvoir than Lake Braddock. The BRAC impact
> will
> > hit these 2 schools more severely.
> >
> > The point is that not just one of these schools
> > should absorb the surplus kids who are
> > overcrowding SCSS. ALL 3 can be used if
> necessary.
> > In fact, Hayfield and Lake Braddock do
> > haveenough extra seats by themselves to handle
> SC
> > overcapacityand then kids won't get
> redistricted
> > from an AP to an IB school nor would they have
> to
> > have a ms/hs situation instead of a secondary.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> _______
>
>
> The point you (and others) miss, is BRAC does not
> mean people will ALL live in the Ft Belvoir area.
> The whole corridor from there to the EPG and its
> fringes will be affected.
>
> In fact, if enough change comes, maybe the
> untouchable WSHS might be affected (read:
> overcrowded) by this all.
>
> One other thing to consider, as the LBSS area is
> an older area, as empty-nesters move away, their
> homes may be purchased by folks with kids (again)
> which would start the cycle all over again as it
> did in the late 70s and 80s in the area.
>
> Look at the long term vs. the here and RIGHT(!!!)
> NOW.

Every but the western contingent of South County is looking at the long term and the short term. People all over this county fund stuff at Laurel Hill-Lorton. We` see Mount Vernon plus numerous other spots with open high school capacity. I'd rather fund another elementary school ON FORT BELVOIR than an addition at South County or the middle school. I checked the maps of the 11th district - there are alot more areas than the boundaries of Silverbrook. If you all want that high school then withdraw from FCPS or pay for it yourselves via a special tax district.

West Springfield had more kids assigned to it in the rush to vacate Lee. Daventry then tried the next year. West County boundary process had NO CANCELLATIONS so what makes you people any different?

What does West Springfield have to do with this? They are not overcapacity right now, in fact the CIP shows WSHS and Irving to be slightly undercapacity in the out years. That being said, I would rather my kids go to Lake Braddock over Irving/WS so they can stay at one school for all 6 years as they would at South County.

Silverbrook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does West Springfield have to do with this?
> They are not overcapacity right now, in fact the
> CIP shows WSHS and Irving to be slightly
> undercapacity in the out years. That being said,
> I would rather my kids go to Lake Braddock over
> Irving/WS so they can stay at one school for all 6
> years as they would at South County.

___________________________________________

...sounds like you should pupil-place


SCSS is a community school that was built so those going to Hayfield would have a better quality of life by going to that community school. The UNnecessary redistricting hearings have caused heartache in the area and now another looms.

There are so many unknows in this that FCPS should leave bad enough alone until it all works out, or build the MS and be done with it.

That is my opinion...

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Silverbrook Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What does West Springfield have to do with this?
>
> > They are not overcapacity right now, in fact
> the
> > CIP shows WSHS and Irving to be slightly
> > undercapacity in the out years. That being
> said,
> > I would rather my kids go to Lake Braddock over
> > Irving/WS so they can stay at one school for all
> 6
> > years as they would at South County.
>
> ___________________________________________
>
> ...sounds like you should pupil-place
>
>
> SCSS is a community school that was built so those
> going to Hayfield would have a better quality of
> life by going to that community school. The
> UNnecessary redistricting hearings have caused
> heartache in the area and now another looms.
>
> There are so many unknows in this that FCPS should
> leave bad enough alone until it all works out, or
> build the MS and be done with it.
>
> That is my opinion...

Heartache? People working hard to pay for what for YOUR kids? There are foreclosures and near foreclosures in every area of this county. People who have relocated cannot get even 1 contract on some reasonably priced homes in good condition.

Gas is over $3.00 per gallon- food is more expensive - a library is delayed. Fairfax County needs high quality police, fire, services for the disabled, blight abatement. 12 million dollars because kids won't ride a few extra miles???

I read alot about the Hayfield Pyramid Solutions years ago. What I never read was why I didn't see math sol reports for algebra or geometry in grade 8. FCPS is a county wide school division NOT a swim club or tennis court for an HOA community.

The millions of dollars spent to transform Lorton ? I see the new boundary map and it seems those who bought houses in the old prison area are now at Hayfield.

as a "taxpayer" I am sure you are concerned about foreclosures, as they will cost you, me, and probably my kids a lot of money in bailing out people who got no-doc liar loans on homes they should have NEVER been in. I have no pity and they should deal with it. Live within your means, really.

Regarding your idea on Hayfield housing students in new homes from the old prison area, how so? Looks like SCSS to me...

Regarding the rest of your complaints on the cost of life, I got a reduction on my mortgage that helps comp. me on the other (higher) costs. Life in the big city...

Again, be concerned over bailout schemes for the subprime and liar-loaners, not schools in the big picture...

No thanks, a middle school in Southern Fairfax County can wait until 2017 as originally planned.

GOPfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No thanks, a middle school in Southern Fairfax
> County can wait until 2017 as originally planned.


FCPS school board has now put an addition to SC to be built ASAP on the 3-27 board meeting as new business. I guess that's the real reason the Board of supervisors wants to raise the tax rate. That is more important than academics or police or blight strike forces or anything else - go figure.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GOPfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No thanks, a middle school in Southern Fairfax
> > County can wait until 2017 as originally
> planned.
>
>
> FCPS school board has now put an addition to SC to
> be built ASAP on the 3-27 board meeting as new
> business. I guess that's the real reason the
> Board of supervisors wants to raise the tax rate.
> That is more important than academics or police
> or blight strike forces or anything else - go
> figure.


and to avoid any redistricting? This is in addition to SCSS a middle school will be built as well? What will become of SCSS if and when the middle school is built, SC to not be a secondary school anymore? If West County went through a heated redistricting, then why not do the same thing for SCSS, LBSS and Hayfield??

That's the whole point. There IS space at Lake Braddock and Hayfield to redistrict the neighborhoods out of overcrowded South County. The problem is that Elizabeth Bradsher, a School Board member, lives in a neighborhood that could get sent to Lake Braddock and she is completely biased and short-sighted. Why NOT spend multi-millions of dollars so her kid won't have to be on the school bus 5 extra minutes?

Include Mt. Vernon in the boundary study. This school is way under capacity and needs students to help bring up the test scores. Look what they did for South Lakes. Send students from Hayfield to Mt. Vernon, and then send students from South County to Hayfield. Lake Braddock can take a few from South County as well. No middle school or addition is needed.

Explanantion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's the whole point. There IS space at Lake
> Braddock and Hayfield to redistrict the
> neighborhoods out of overcrowded South County.
> The problem is that Elizabeth Bradsher, a School
> Board member, lives in a neighborhood that could
> get sent to Lake Braddock and she is completely
> biased and short-sighted. Why NOT spend
> multi-millions of dollars so her kid won't have to
> be on the school bus 5 extra minutes?


This is extremely frustrating with the way the SB's thinking process, biases and treatment towards the general public goes as far as we are concerned. If the SB put their own kids first such as what Bradsher is doing and Kathy with her kid in the Chantilly area with Navy going to Oakton, Stu asking for more kids in his own district to go to SL without ANY regard to these redistricted parents' feelings, then that shows how very corrupted this SB is.

Bradsher is against redistricting. That's why she wants a new addition AND middle school.

clear Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bradsher is against redistricting. That's why she
> wants a new addition AND middle school.


Huh?? From what I understood about her speech during the final boundary hearing for the Western County, she scolded these families who were affected that the schools did not belong to them and that they did not have choices only to the school board and that she supported the West County redistricting.

Bradsher doesn't want the Northwest Silverbrook area (ie Crosspointe and Barrington) to be redistricted to Lake Braddock.

THis school board sucks. Put in a new one and raise salaries for all FCPS employees. Oh and make the districts better too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2008 11:02PM by KeepOnTruckin.

&*$#)% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Include Mt. Vernon in the boundary study. This
> school is way under capacity and needs students to
> help bring up the test scores. Look what they did
> for South Lakes. Send students from Hayfield to
> Mt. Vernon, and then send students from South
> County to Hayfield. Lake Braddock can take a few
> from South County as well. No middle school or
> addition is needed.

Dan Storck, the SB member who represents Mt.Vernon, has said that Mt. Vernon cannot be redistricted because its location is too out of the way.

The SB redistricted kids out of Hayfield and sent them to South County, leaving Hayfield under enrolled. And now South County is going to get an addition because of over crowding? This is ridiculous. They make one mistake after another and correct them with more of our money! With SO many empty high school seats in that part of the county, there is NO excuse for an addition on South County OR a new middle school.

Someone needs to tell the school board the county taxpayers are not a bottom less pit of funds for them to do whatever they want with our money, our schools and our kids!

Stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bradsher doesn't want the Northwest Silverbrook
> area (ie Crosspointe and Barrington) to be
> redistricted to Lake Braddock.

Fine. Then send them to Hayfield or Mt.Vernon, both have hundreds of empty seats.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=thorn+bush+dr+fairfax+station+va&daddr=chapel+oak+dr+fairfax+station+va+to:long+shadows+dr+fairfax+station+to:lake+braddock+high+school+burke+va&mra=pi&mrcr=2&sll=38.736143,-77.284012&sspn=0.016771,0.028925&ie=UTF8&ll=38.741231,-77.284055&spn=0.03354,0.05785&z=14

Thorn Bush Drive, Roseland Drive, Long Shadows Drive are considered "residential estate" areas for tax purposes. Big houses - huge lots. All are near South Oaks Run and Barrington - opening up onto Ox and go to Sangster and Lake Braddock. Now if they can commute a few more miles [2-3] to Lake Braddock then why can't stuff like Chapel Oak across Ox?

Since when did big HOA's have any municipal jurisdiction? My solution is the HOA's fund the addition at SC. Raise the fees and donate.

USE Mt. Vernon, I’m so fed up with the mess the school board creates and just continues to waste tax money. Hayfield needs to be shifted to Mt. Vernon, South County can shift to Hayfield, and Lake Braddock can take the rest. That side of the county needs to be redistricted and fix the schools. Hayfield and Mt. Vernon both had renovations. Mt. Vernon is not difficult to get to that is bull shit. Why can the school board move students to South Lakes, when so many parents objected, but can not use Mt. Vernon because parent do not want to send their kids to that school. No Middle school or addition. Use what we have.

The thing is Hayfield and Lake Braddock can handle all the surplus kids right now without kids having to go to MV. What makes the transition between LB, H and SC so easy is that all 3 are AP schools and all 3 are secondary schools.

If FCPS stuck with LB and Hayfield for the South County overcrowding solution, nobody can claim that their kids would be getting an inferior education from redistricting because they wouldn't be going to IB instead of AP nor would they have to go to separate middle and high schools vs. a 7-12 secondary.

stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is Hayfield and Lake Braddock can handle
> all the surplus kids right now without kids having
> to go to MV. What makes the transition between
> LB, H and SC so easy is that all 3 are AP schools
> and all 3 are secondary schools.
>
> If FCPS stuck with LB and Hayfield for the South
> County overcrowding solution, nobody can claim
> that their kids would be getting an inferior
> education from redistricting because they wouldn't
> be going to IB instead of AP nor would they have
> to go to separate middle and high schools vs. a
> 7-12 secondary.


Now do you understand why these redistricted families from the Western County objected so strongly about being redistricted to South Lakes? If redistricting can be done for an IB school, then a redistricting should happen to MV. Sounds like you are from one of those AP schools area.

Circus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stallion Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The thing is Hayfield and Lake Braddock can
> handle
> > all the surplus kids right now without kids
> having
> > to go to MV. What makes the transition between
> > LB, H and SC so easy is that all 3 are AP
> schools
> > and all 3 are secondary schools.
> >
> > If FCPS stuck with LB and Hayfield for the
> South
> > County overcrowding solution, nobody can claim
> > that their kids would be getting an inferior
> > education from redistricting because they
> wouldn't
> > be going to IB instead of AP nor would they
> have
> > to go to separate middle and high schools vs. a
> > 7-12 secondary.
>
>
> Now do you understand why these redistricted
> families from the Western County objected so
> strongly about being redistricted to South Lakes?
> If redistricting can be done for an IB school,
> then a redistricting should happen to MV. Sounds
> like you are from one of those AP schools area.



BINGO! That is why the school board is corrupt. They do not use the same logic when they make decision about areas being redistricted. Mt. Vernon got a big renovation and parents fought hard not to send their kids to that school. Now we have a big problem with South County and the only solution the school board has: is to build a middle school or add an addition to South County. Use Mt. Vernon, Hayfield and Lake Braddock. If they took students from Hayfield and sent them to Mt. Vernon, it would help that school. Remember South Lakes! Hayfield will then have more room to take South County students and Lake Braddock will take the rest.

So if the School Board is smart and has learned anything from the West County debacle, they will stick with the 3 AP SECONDARY schools of Hayfield, Lake Braddock, and South County. No parents or students will have any valid grounds to complain.

cynic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if the School Board is smart and has learned
> anything from the West County debacle, they will
> stick with the 3 AP SECONDARY schools of Hayfield,
> Lake Braddock, and South County. No parents or
> students will have any valid grounds to complain.


Nope! include Mt. Vernon.

But if Mt Vernon is included, parents have a reason to complain. If it is not included, there are no legitimate reasons for dissent.

If the school board includes Mt. Vernon, then the tax payers have no legitimate reasons to complain. The reason South Lakes had a boundary adjustment was to add students to help that school. Mt. Vernon is in need of help. Hayfield students can be sent to Mt. Vernon to help the school. Hayfield in turn can take additioal students from South County. Lake Braddock is near capacity, and can take the rest of South County. If Mt. Vernon is not included, parents from Hayfield, Lake Braddock and South County will complain they are all at capacity and can not take students, the middle school is built. Use Mt. Vernon and all schools are below capacity and no Middle school is ever needed. Mt. Vernon is a good school just like all the other FCPS and is not difficlut to get to.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/24/AR2008032402364_2.html

Now the County Executive plans to get 10 million to fund an addition to South County. If they raise the rate .01 they generate about 22.3 million.

There are better ways to spend that money- or just don't do it since everything is more expensive including gas and food. Does anyone else live in this county besides people in the Silverbrook elementary attendance area?

taxpayer-3-27date that will live in i Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone
> else live in this county besides people in the
> Silverbrook elementary attendance area?


Apparently not. What Liz Bradsher and her cronies in Barrington, Crosspointe and neighboring communities are trying to do is criminal. Bradsher is a hypocrite of the highest order as her comments during the recent boundary change vote were clearly for show.

The SB proclaims that 2000 students is the "right" size for a high school and then they willing accept a plan which creates a 3000 student monolith at South County while Hayfield and Lake Braddock are undercapacity. Dean Tisdadt and the SB know this and are taking the cowards way out taking money from the county which could be used for needed services (or by FCPS to address the budget shortfall).

As we have seen, boundary changes are never easy, but if the SB had done the RIGHT thing 3-4 years ago with South County we would not have this mess today. Do it know, do it honestly (yeah, right!) and look forward to how we can help all FCPS students, not just those who feel entitled to a school simply because they bitched and moaned the loudest.

The school board moved students in the west to under capacity South Lakes. The schools involved in the boundary change did not have a capacity problem like South County, but the school board went ahead and shifted these schools around. If the school board can upset the lives of the west side, then the school board should do it to the south side. Move students from Hayfield to Mt. Vernon and that will create more than enough space for the South County group. The west side parents should keep a close eye on what happens to the south side. No middle school is needed. Use capacity at nearby schools. Mt. Vernon is the answer.

Sorry, don't close your eyes, just make sure the school board uses the same logic when they decide what to do with South County.

What about the space at Lake Braddock? I think that should be used as well.

Think Bradsher and Storck will quit the School Board once the construction begins? I can't see what else those 2 have done or have done besides fool around with South County.

Join in with FairfaxCAPS. They have had experience dealing with the school board and will have systems in place that can help you. fairfaxCAPS.org


Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> &*$#)% Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Include Mt. Vernon in the boundary study. This
> > school is way under capacity and needs students
> to
> > help bring up the test scores. Look what they
> did
> > for South Lakes. Send students from Hayfield to
> > Mt. Vernon, and then send students from South
> > County to Hayfield. Lake Braddock can take a
> few
> > from South County as well. No middle school or
> > addition is needed.
>
> Dan Storck, the SB member who represents
> Mt.Vernon, has said that Mt. Vernon cannot be
> redistricted because its location is too out of
> the way.
>
> The SB redistricted kids out of Hayfield and sent
> them to South County, leaving Hayfield under
> enrolled. And now South County is going to get an
> addition because of over crowding? This is
> ridiculous. They make one mistake after another
> and correct them with more of our money! With SO
> many empty high school seats in that part of the
> county, there is NO excuse for an addition on
> South County OR a new middle school.
>
> Someone needs to tell the school board the county
> taxpayers are not a bottom less pit of funds for
> them to do whatever they want with our money, our
> schools and our kids!

If you take the Silverbrook neighborhoods out of South County, SCSS will turn into another low-scoring, high FRM/ESOL school. Silverbrook parents and kids make up the backbone of the leadership of South County whether it is on the PTSA board or the classroom or the athletic fields.

Save SCSS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you take the Silverbrook neighborhoods out of
> South County, SCSS will turn into another
> low-scoring, high FRM/ESOL school. Silverbrook
> parents and kids make up the backbone of the
> leadership of South County whether it is on the
> PTSA board or the classroom or the athletic
> fields.

Then pay for it yourselves. This is absurd. You are one of the priveledged schools in this county - others include Aldrin and Forestville . No due to income but due to bizarre actionable school board preferences.

This isn't about BRAC nor is it about Lorton- it is your HOA's wanting a new school. So people from Halley, Newington Forest, Gunston, Lorton, are trash and can't exist without Siverbrookers from Fairfax station?

I know- you like being the Queen bees and wouldn't be top of the socioeconimic food chain families at Lake Braddock.

What would be better than Crosspointe in terms of the socioeconomic food chain at Lake Braddock?

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/apr/02/county-projects-additional-shortfall/

Greater budget difficulties. I watched some of the budget hearings and sincerely doubt a lot of the school funding lobbyists ever analyzed the LOBS [lines of business/programs, construction projects]. The party is over.

Lorton’s New Land Deal
Proposal in the works to swap park and school land to pay for new middle school in Lorton.

By Amber Healy
Wednesday, April 09, 2008


A proposal is being submitted to the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors this week that may provide a plan — and funding — for a South County Middle School well before its scheduled construction on the county’s Capital Improvement Plan.

"The South County Middle School Solutions group has been working to come up with a plan that made sense, and I think we have it," said Supervisor Pat Herrity (R-Springfield).

The plan, submitted by a developer, involves a land swap, some residential development and construction of the middle school adjacent to South County Secondary School, providing the opportunity for shared athletic fields.

In the first phase of the land swap, the land currently set aside for the middle school would be sold to a developer, and about 100 houses would be built there. The money from that deal, estimated at $15-16 million, would go toward the middle school, which would be built on the land where a former Nike missile site, owned by the Fairfax County Park Authority, stands today.

The property is just north of the existing school, which would allow for the two schools to share a track and other fields.
In exchange for the Nike site, the Park Authority would receive a small parcel of land near the intersection of Furnace and Lorton Roads, currently owned by the Board of Supervisors.

If built, the school would have an entrance on Laurel Crest Lane, across from the Laurel Hill Golf Club, which would help ease traffic congestion on Silverbrook Road.


CAPACITY FOR the middle school would be about 1,250 students, slightly smaller than initial plans for the middle school but larger than the middle school capacity at South County Secondary.

On the property today are a few small, single-story buildings, which the Laurel Hill Golf Club used as storage facilities before it opened. Those buildings would most likely remain on the site, but their use has not yet been determined.

Use of that land may need Congressional approval, because it was part of the land swap approved by Congress when the Lorton Prison closed. U.S. Rep. Tom Davis (R-11) said that he has already started submitting requests to have that land opened up for development and a use other than the park land stipulated in the initial land deal in 2000.

Davis, who will leave office at the end of this year, said he wants to help however he can because it is the right thing to do, not because he wants any "legacy" projects.

"By doing a simple land swap, we will have development on the land currently designated for the middle school," said Herrity. "But, we’ll get the money we need to bridge the funding gap to build the middle school on a property adjacent to the existing school, which the School Board has said it wanted all along."


AT A MARCH 27 meeting of the Fairfax County School Board, Chief Operating Officer Dean Tistadt put the cost of a middle school at between $30 million and $40 million, if built today. If the land swap plan were approved, the $15 million from the development of new houses combined with a proposed $10 million from the Board of Supervisors would provide up to $25 million for construction of the school. Combined with $2 million set aside for planning and design of the school earlier this year, and $1.74 designated by Del. Dave Albo (R-42) and State Senator George Barker (D-39) during this year’s legislative session, the total adds up to $28.74 million.

A second land swap, which has not yet been finalized and involves the Fairfax County Park Authority and a local business, may provide an additional $10 million toward the school, which would cover construction costs.

It was another public private educational agreement, or PPEA, that provided the funding for South County Secondary School. But the deal that was originally submitted looked nothing like the plan that was eventually signed, said Fairfax County Executive Tony Griffin.

That plan took 18 months to complete, he said, and there was more land available to offer as possible locations for either a school or homes at that time.

"Plus, if you build houses in that area, that only exacerbates the overcrowding situation they’re already dealing with at South County," Griffin said.

He is sympathetic to their plight, which is why Griffin suggested the School Board ask the Board of Supervisors for $10 million over the next two fiscal years. Griffin had suggested the money be used to build a wing on South County to alleviate overcrowding, but many believe that may eliminate the chances of building a middle school in the future.

Once this plan is submitted, if county staff reviews it and feels there is a legitimate proposal here, there will be a 45-day window of opportunity for other developers to submit similar plans, Griffin said.

Herrity, along with members of the School Board, are optimistic about the proposal.

"Building a middle school is the only answer, nothing else," Herrity said. "It has been a priority for me and I feel if we can put our shoulders to the wheel, we can get this done."


SCHOOL BOARD Chairman Dan Storck (Mount Vernon) said the plan is up for discussion, but hopes it will be approved.

"There are lots of options available to the county and the South County community for what might be available for exchange," Storck said. "I think if we see a good opportunity for both the Park Authority and Fairfax County Public Schools to exchange land that provides us with a way to move the school forward and co-locate facilities, it’s one we should pursue."

Storck said he is optimistic about the plan, but the decision to pursue it is up to the Board of Supervisors.

At least two Supervisors support the plan, including Herrity and Supervisor Gerry Hyland (D-Mount Vernon), who has long said he will only accept a middle school as the solution to South County’s overcrowding.

"The proposal presents significant challenges, but it speaks for itself," Hyland said. "It requires a swap of land, a change is the land not designated for a middle school and to do something completely different, and to transfer it would provide a developer with an opportunity to build some residences."

Hyland said that while he cannot speak for the entire Board of Supervisors or School Board, he is hopeful the plan will be at least accepted for discussion.

School Board member Elizabeth "Liz" Bradsher (Springfield) said this plan may be more difficult to negotiate because less free land is available for other options, but she remains confident a middle school is the best answer, both for South County and the surrounding area.

"It’s definitely a plan that should be considered," she said. "The challenges are not insurmountable, but it depends on the amount of effort the county and the School Board want to put in to make it happen."

Tistadt, who has long said the South County area does not have the enrollment numbers now to support a middle school, said he supports the plan, so when the numbers are there, it will be easier to start building the school faster.

"I’m intrigued by the plan because if we can do it, it will allow us to share fields between the schools," Tistadt said. "If the Park Authority is willing to do it, I’m willing to do it."

However, Tistadt does not think the school needs to be built right away, and that a wing may still be the best way to ease overcrowding at South County in the immediate future.

"All these PPEAs have lots of people putting chips into play but us," he said. "It requires the Board of Supervisors and the Park Authority to make deals with benefits going to the School Board and that’s fine, if they’re willing to do that, God bless them and we’ll take it."

South County residents should take one sigh of relief about their current educational situation, however. In a memo sent to the School Board on Friday, Superintendent Dr. Jack Dale said he did not feel a boundary study should be conducted this fall.

"With or without funding for a wing, we don’t think a boundary study is the way to go because we’re nervous about the enrollment numbers at Lake Braddock," Tistadt said. "We’ve seen the numbers go up there this year and we’re expected to see another increase next year, which makes it increasingly unlikely we’ll do another study this fall."

Lake Braddock got 8 new middle schoolers from Sept 2007 until Feb 2008. It lost 12 at the high school level in the same time period. Net loss of 4. is this enough growth to preclude a boundary change or are they counting on some BOS to give the entire 3 cents to FCPS if Tisdadt-Dale cave in?

The GT center at Lake Braddock has 297 students and they come from South County, Robinson, Irving, and Lake Braddock. That is 297/1325 or 22.4% of the middle school. FCPS historically moves out GT center students when the impact on base school situations is extreme. Building an entire school or an addition rather than shifting around boundaries is really radical.

Guess what? When carson first opened people were extremely upset about leaving the Hughes Gt center. Needed room for the base school students so GTC got booted. Academics were good pre-IB /Rodriguez SL's.

taxpayer-

I honestly don't get it. Please explain to me how Lake Braddock went from 600 empy seats to at capacity in the last year.

What about Hayfield and Mt Vernon?

Someone is fudging the numbers.

For all those wanting to push Hayfield over to Mount Vernon to make room for more South County students, would you please look at a Map and tell me what part of Hayfield should shift to Mount Vernon? Those suggusting this, do not know the area or the geography. It would not work, unless the goal is to take students within miles of Hayfield and bus them more 15-20 miles. The locations of the schools in the Hayfield area with Edison and Lee a stones throw away make a proposallike thatidiotic. Hayfield is now on a path to full capacity within five years now that it did its part to relieve some crowding at SCSS. It is now LBSS turn to step up. Yes Mount Vernon has room, but come on ship Hayfielders to Mount Vernon? The only shift to Mount Vernon that would make sense is some West Potomac area. At least that school is in the same planet as Mount Vernon but good luck doing that. You think Silverbrook and Crosspointe can dig in heals try messing with Waynewood and Stratford landing

With all the empty seats at Hayfield, Mt. Vernon, Lake Braddock and surrounding schools no middle school is needed. A boundary study for that area is needed, and yes some Hayfield students can go to Mt. Vernon, other students from all over have a long commute to schools. The school board has got to stop this bull shit; I’m sick and tired of the Fairfax Station, Hayfield and Mason Neck people demanding not to be moved. GET OVER IT!

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For all those wanting to push Hayfield over to
> Mount Vernon to make room for more South County
> students, would you please look at a Map and tell
> me what part of Hayfield should shift to Mount
> Vernon? Those suggusting this, do not know the
> area or the geography. It would not work, unless
> the goal is to take students within miles of
> Hayfield and bus them more 15-20 miles. The
> locations of the schools in the Hayfield area with
> Edison and Lee a stones throw away make a
> proposallike thatidiotic. Hayfield is now on a
> path to full capacity within five years now that
> it did its part to relieve some crowding at SCSS.
> It is now LBSS turn to step up. Yes Mount Vernon
> has room, but come on ship Hayfielders to Mount
> Vernon? The only shift to Mount Vernon that would
> make sense is some West Potomac area. At least
> that school is in the same planet as Mount Vernon
> but good luck doing that. You think Silverbrook
> and Crosspointe can dig in heals try messing with
> Waynewood and Stratford landing

Let's play dominoes! I'd rather kids have decent class sizes than this BS of not using facilities. Move some West potomac into Mount Vernon - I really don't care. Just like I would not care if Strauss and Gibson got called on the carpet via this lawsuit for their Langley-Herndon BS plus the addition at Langley.

Get Oprah. Put these boundaries on National TV and see how long they last.

Why doesn't the SB care about Mt Vernon's undercapicity and high FRM and ESL ratios?

They were hellbent on correcting SLHS but seem indifferent to the woes at Mt Vernon. Mayber the Mt Vernon PTA can hire some of the SLHS PTA people who hijacked the Westfield/Oakton kids.

You have to give them credit-they got it done.

CT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The third post's advocacy of "Creative financing"
> is exactly why I am concerned. Tiles were
> literally falling down from the Woodson ceilings
> because their renovations were pushed back by the
> premature building of South County. If falling
> debris had actually injured a student or
> staffer,there would have been hell to pay.
>
> There are more than enough spaces between Hayfield
> and LB secondaries and the high schools of Lee, MV
> and WS (and their middle schools) to handle
> whatever additional 7th through 12th graders that
> BRAC may bring.

Is FCPS selling land to a developer? YES. Then they will build the middle school with this money and jump ahead of dozen of schools that are ahead of them on the CIP programs.

If they sell the land, should it not be used to reduce classroom size? Should it not be used in order to replace cuts in the budget?

Sounds like corruption to me.

STOP THIS MIDDLE SCHOOL NOW.

SCSS (grades 7-12) is projected to be overcrowded by about 320 students in 2012 when newly-renovated Lake Braddock is projected to have over 600 empty seats. It would be logical to redistrict about 100 students per grade, including the west half of Silverbrook, to Lake Braddock, an AP school.

SOCO needs to be Redistricted now in order to fill the empty seats at LB and save 50 million dollars.

SHOULD WSHS BE SHUT DOWN DUE TO UNSAFE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS IN HARMS WAY.


January 9, 2008
Via Mail and Hand Delivery
Fairfax County School Board ("FCSB")
8115 Gatehouse Road, Suite 5400
Falls Church, VA 22042

Attn: Pam Goddard, Clerk of the Board
Re: Capital Improvement Program ("CIP") hearing on January 9, 2007

Dear Ms. Goddard:
We are pleased to submit the enclosed presentation in support of our position that West
Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the current Capital Improvement
Program ("CIP"). By including WSHS on the CIP, our hope is that the school can be renovated
to meet minimum health, safety, and learning requirements for our students and teachers.
We look forward to discussing our position with you at the CIP hearing on January 9, 2008. In
the interim, should you have any questions regarding our presentation, please do not hesitate to
reach me at 703.926.5770 or via email at "Nancy Baldino" wsptsa@cox.net.
Sincerely,

Nancy Baldino
President, West Springfield High School PTA

cc: Daniel Storck, Chairman, FCSB
` Kathy Smith, FCSB
Elizabeth Bradsher, FCSB
Brad Center, FCSB
Stuart Gibson, FCSB
Martina Hone, FCSB
Kaye Kory, FCSB
Ilrong Moon, FCSB
Philip Niedzielskieichner, FCSB
James Raney, FCSB
Jane Strauss, FCSB
Judith Wilson, FCSB
1
I. Reasons to Include WSHS on the CIP
West Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the CIP:
n WSHS was built in 1966.
Renovations to the structure --
including the HVAC system,
windows, and plumbing -- have not
occurred since the school was built
42 years ago;
n WSHS is the only high school built
by Fairfax County during the 1960s
that has not been renovated or
scheduled to be renovated;
n All other high schools in WSHS'
geographic area have been
renovated within the past 9 years
or are scheduled for renovation
(Lee, Hayfield, South County,
Fairfax, Annandale, Lake
Braddock, Edison);
n WSHS is an existing structure
within the County that is crying out
for renovation;
n Classrooms, common areas, and sports facilities require immediate attention;
n Over 3,923 work orders submitted to the County over the past three years to address
needed repairs;
2
n Dire conditions at WSHS have created safety and health concerns (crumbling infrastructure,
rusting and leaking plumbing, faulty lighting, no sidewalks, mold and poor air quality in
classrooms);
n Dire conditions have caused Fairfax County to authorize some emergency repairs to some
bathrooms and plumbing;
n Continuing to make emergency repairs to WSHS is not the best use of limited Fairfax County
resources; and
n Age of the school mandates a complete renovation in line with CIP criteria.
II. CIP Criteria
West Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the Capital Improvement
Program ("CIP") in light of existing CIP criteria:
n FCPS CIP programs are designed to provide the best possible environment conducive to
learning;
n Renovations are aimed at assuring that all schools can provide the facilities necessary to
support educational programs;
n Renovations should occur every 20-25 years in order to protect Fairfax County's capital
investment in its schools;
n It is our understanding that WSHS was identified as one of five high schools in Fairfax
County in terms of needing immediate renovations. The remaining four high schools
(Woodson, Edison, Marshall, Thomas Jefferson) are included on the current CIP plan.
3
III. Current School Conditions
Classrooms
Due to the age of the school and the
school's extensive use, the overall
condition of the school is deteriorating.
Below are some specific examples of
current conditions:
n Current electrical system cannot
support the simultaneous use of
multiple educational aids such as
computers and copiers;
n Rusted and leaking pipes result in
damage to floors and ceiling
throughout the school;
n Desks in the classrooms appear to be
the original ones from when the
school first opened;
n Trailers are scattered across the
school's parking lot creating safety
concerns;
n Many heating / AC Units are not
operational and cannot be regulated;
n Original single-pane windows (many
are not functional or are welded
shut);
n Mold in ceiling tiles / carpeting from
leaking pipes creates health issues in
classrooms (carpets have not been
replaced in decades).
n Concrete walls do not permit
teachers to hang educational aids on
the walls.
4
Music Wing
n Music Wing does not meet current county specifications for performing arts instructional
spaces.
n Designed to service approximately 250 students, music department is currently servicing
approximately 780 students.
n Some music classes are held in the hallways due to overcrowding.
n Water leaks from ceiling damage sheet music stored in Band Director's office.
Common Areas
n Carpeting
throughout the school is covered with mold and dirt. Much of this covering is not being
picked up by FCPS facilities because it involves asbestos. If uncovered, it could cause a
HAZMAT situation.
5
n Bathrooms are part of the original construction from 1966. Most bathrooms:
A) do not receive hot water (an important consideration given FCPS recommendations re:
MRSA);
B) smell bad and have very poor ventilation.
C) do not have toilets that flush; and
D) do not have running water.
n Water Coolers are generally not operational. The water coolers that are operational leak,
causing continuous water damage to carpeting and ceilings. Lighting fixtures / structure are
part of the original structure, creating dark classrooms and common areas inconsistent with
a positive learning environment.
6
Sports Facilities
n Rusted outdoor light fixtures;
n Wooden poles holding electrical wiring do not comply with County regulations and create a
dangerous environment;
n Outdoor track is uneven and has potholes (no track meets are held at WSHS).
.
7
IV. Comments from Teachers at WSHS
"I truly believe that a structure conveys a message. A structure that is badly worn and out of
date does not convey the idea of a world-class education or state of the art education."
"If WSHS is to continue to attract residents and students who desire a top notch education, and
if it wants to continue to attract top notch teachers, we need to provide a facility in line with nearby
schools such as renovated Lake Braddock HS and Lee HS and newly constructed South
County High School."
The girls' bathroom in the business wing "constantly leaks from the toilet in the middle stall. I
have been reporting this leak for two years now."
"For close to 30 years I have walked dark hallways - the lighting in the halls is really bad."
"All of the bathrooms are abysmal."
"Beyond my classroom, I see a school that is crying for renovation."
8
V. Conclusion
West Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the CIP in light of CIP criteria:
n Renovations are suppose to occur every
20-25 years: Built in 1966, WSHS has not
been renovated since being built over 42
years ago.
n WSHS is the only high school built by
Fairfax County during this period that has
not been renovated or scheduled to be
renovated.
n The School Board has the authority to
remedy this situation.
n WSHS should be renovated to meet
minimum health, safety, and learning
requirements for our students and
teachers.
n FCSB should take this opportunity to include WSHS on the CIP.

I would bet money that since WSHS was built in the 60's that school is crawling with asbestos.

Unsafe conditions for students and staff at WSHS and yet this SB wants to build a new middle school in SOCO instead of renovations to WSHS.

I can't wait until Bradsher says that SCSS doesn't belong to Crosspointe and Barrington. That was her main plank of her platform: that she and her neighbors BUILT SC nail by nail.

She was a bitch, is a bitch and will always be a bitch.

I am a parent of 3 in the WSHS pyramid and am a bit disturbed to read this letter from our PTA President. Why do we keep getting ignored by our SB rep, Bradsher? I am sick and tired of SOCO being served lobster while the rest of us get pork and beans.

Liz- expect a call from me and my neighbors next week.

WSHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
? I am sick and tired of SOCO
> being served lobster while the rest of us get pork
> and beans.

you're lucky - given that there's so much pork around, why do we only we get beans...

MORALITY?????????????????? The SB has none.

THE RICH WHITE FOLK GET WHAT THEY WANT IN SOCO.

One new HS, one new ES and One new middle school.

No student will be on a bus for more then 15 minutes and these students will all be in the same school pyramid.

Has the SB done the SAME FOR MINORITY GROUPS WHO ARE NOT RICH?

NO AND HELL NO.

WSHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a parent of 3 in the WSHS pyramid and am a
> bit disturbed to read this letter from our PTA
> President. Why do we keep getting ignored by our
> SB rep, Bradsher? I am sick and tired of SOCO
> being served lobster while the rest of us get pork
> and beans.
>
> Liz- expect a call from me and my neighbors next
> week.



TAXPAYERS ALERT


All parents in Fairfax County must expect full disclosure from the SB on how this South County middle school is being built, where every penny comes from, any land deals and any incorrect procedures need to be watch/reported on this site.