Cripes, there are some really ignorant people here. I've never been a teacher, but I've known quite a few ex-teachers, and their information, combined with some thought experiments as led to me to conclude this: being a teacher would suck. Based on what was published here earlier, a FFX firefighter with 15 years experience gets paid double.

Myths:

(1) Teachers are lazy. They only work 6.5 hours a day and get the summer off.

Fact: When do you think those teachers grade the homework? How long does it take to grade 60 essays or 100 math homework assignments? Guess what: they're grading a lot of that stuff at night and on weekends. And I don't know about you, but I remember getting several homework assignments each week for each of my classes.

As for the summers, teachers aren't paid for the summer since they aren't working. Their low pay more than reflects that. Heck, if I had a job that crappy, I'd need an entire summer to recharge.

(2) Teachers are well prepared. Cripes, their turnover rate is a reflection of how crappy their job is, and how ill-prepared they are. I'd rather have fewer people go into the profession combined with a lower turnover rate. This would drastically raise the average level of experience and lead to better outcomes.

I personally know several individuals (including my wife) that didn't last more than 3-5 years. After a while, they had had enough. They quit their teaching jobs and entered new careers -- careers that paid quite a bit more and with a lot less stress.

(3) Teaching is easy: Who would want to spend an entire day teaching ungrateful teenagers, or trying to get 3rd graders to pay attention? I couldn't do it. I'd much rather be a firefighter sitting around the station all day waiting for a call to come in.

"In fact, I question that our illustrious administrators have the ability to know how to choose the best from a group--no matter what the salary. I'm not sure they know a good teacher when they see one."

+1

Many of those administrators were not the best teachers. They wanted out and found a way up or actually got "booted up". I know one who was NEVER a teacher and one who NEVER taught in a classroom (was a counselor) and now hires teachers. Very disappointing to say the least. These are not people who have the respect of teachers. They lock themselves away in the administrative buildings---and think they are running the schools.

You wish you could move beyond a teaching job and up to admin. It is not an easy task. We need teachers but right now Dale wants teachers who can think outside the box. This will come to a surprise to the lazy teachers we have now. Fairfax county is going to set a standard for the nation.

Hold on to your hats, it is going to be one wild ride. Out with the old and in with the new.

plus one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Many of those administrators were not the best
> teachers. They wanted out and found a way up or
> actually got "booted up".

That's kind of how it also works in corporate america. If you have an individual that you no longer want in your department, you promote him or her out and up. There are plenty of people who turned to "management" because they could talk a good story. However, technically, their skills in those areas wouldn't help them to succeed until noon of their first day of work. However, in a B.S. management role, they do fine.

I personally work better without a manager or management overseeing my activities. I say fire the manager and split their pay up among those who can "self-manage" their own tasks day in and day out effectively. Finally, what I find most amusing is that how a manager can write a review for an individual that reports to them, but are assigned to an off-site assignment for over 80% of the time. Now, how can a manager effectively really know how well that employee really did during the year? The answer is, they can't.

Sorry to cross-polenate corporate life with the county's teaching system. However, there are plenty of parallels that can be made with one exception - the level of pay. In the corporate world, the pay is better ... but the knives they use to stab you in the back are also sharper.

"We need teachers but right now Dale wants teachers who can think outside the box."

This is a big pile of hooey. One of the primary reasons teachers are overworked, and parents are pissed are the half-baked initiatives coming from the central office. I don't know if its Dr. Dale or somebody else, but case in point is the fiasco with Zeros and Cheating at West Potomac.

They hung the principal out to dry on this, but this is some of that "outside the box" thinking being promoted. Really what it is is for no other reason than novelty, to invert the way things were done with minimal consideration given to the effects of the change.

Do you think kids are just going to not cheat if there's no penalty and they get to retake the test? Of course they are, they'd be stupid not to. More than anything else parents should be pissed about this kind of stuff.

Not only does it take time away from teaching the kids, but it does positive harm to them--deluding them about the consequences that actions have, and putting them behind in the competition that life is.

Moreover, the more teachers that are "driven" out by the craziness, the more all the money that goes to "professional development" and training is dumped down the drain. How much money in the budget goes to this kind of stuff--through substitutes, through bringing in lecturers, paying for consultants and technology. . . . This is all money wasted if the teachers promptly leave because the initiatives are ill-thought out and add to responsibilities (ie distract from teaching).

Do parents really want their kids to be the subjects of educational reform experiments? Is that what you want your tax dollars going to?

The idea of prosecuting someone for breaking the law (ie sexting) has nothing to do with whether you can discipline an employee for not doing something that is not in their contract.

Obviously you can't discipline employees legally for NOT doing things that aren't stipulated in their contract. This is what is meant by "cause" in proceedings for dismissal.

Inn The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> plus one Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >

> In the corporate world, the pay is better ... but the knives they
> use to stab you in the back are also sharper.

If this were true, we'd be having a barbaric, online forum about YOUR employer and coworkers, and not mine. There are some pretty sharp knives out to get us...witness Lanigan and the guy in Loudoun with the cell phone of "porn". Don't hear too much about how employees at Raytheon (pick a company) get into trouble, or a discussion thread about why an executive is taking time off.

There are some older teachers hoping to sell their houses and get out. Why don't you well-paid private sector people do a better job and get this economy going. You've been slacking for years now!

Outside the Box,

Great comment. I couldn't have said it better.

Outside the Box Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "We need teachers but right now Dale wants
> teachers who can think outside the box."
>
> This is a big pile of hooey. One of the primary
> reasons teachers are overworked, and parents are
> pissed are the half-baked initiatives coming from
> the central office. I don't know if its Dr. Dale
> or somebody else, but case in point is the fiasco
> with Zeros and Cheating at West Potomac.
>
> They hung the principal out to dry on this, but
> this is some of that "outside the box" thinking
> being promoted. Really what it is is for no other
> reason than novelty, to invert the way things were
> done with minimal consideration given to the
> effects of the change.
>
> Do you think kids are just going to not cheat if
> there's no penalty and they get to retake the
> test? Of course they are, they'd be stupid not to.
> More than anything else parents should be pissed
> about this kind of stuff.
>
> Not only does it take time away from teaching the
> kids, but it does positive harm to them--deluding
> them about the consequences that actions have, and
> putting them behind in the competition that life
> is.
>
> Moreover, the more teachers that are "driven" out
> by the craziness, the more all the money that goes
> to "professional development" and training is
> dumped down the drain. How much money in the
> budget goes to this kind of stuff--through
> substitutes, through bringing in lecturers, paying
> for consultants and technology. . . . This is all
> money wasted if the teachers promptly leave
> because the initiatives are ill-thought out and
> add to responsibilities (ie distract from
> teaching).
>
> Do parents really want their kids to be the
> subjects of educational reform experiments? Is
> that what you want your tax dollars going to?

employee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why don't you well-paid
> private sector people do a better job and get this
> economy going. You've been slacking for years now!


Ha! If I were so well-paid, I wouldn't be trying to get into the Government. My measly 401-K from my private-sector position won't cover my retirement. Again, another need for my desire to get into Government.

"We need teachers but right now Dale wants teachers who can think outside the box."

To Dr. Dale:

Teachers can think outside of the box and they very much enjoy doing that, but your own administration, the state SOL's and NCLB have them hamstrung so that they can't implement any of that "outside of the box" thinking. Good luck with all those new innovative teachers who have to innovate within a very small box that they have been put into. Unless the box is dismantled, you will have the same results.

The first thing you need to do is to get your staff to recognize and reward innovation. As it is, teachers are only allowed to use "approved materials" (including eCart tests) and "approved strategies" designed to teach to "standardized tests". Going outside of the box risks administrative punishment. Oh, I know you will say that you reward innovation---but it is only innovation that uses all of the materials that are already in the box (nothing from "outside of the box"). All of the specialists and central staff determine what is in the box---not the teachers.

Ya go ahead and work for the federal govt. I tried it after retiring from the county. The biggest cluster fuck in Fairfax didnt compare to the crap in the there. My boss at the feds told me, and this no lie, " you dont have to be good, just make the other guy look bad" Biggest bunch of backstabbing, kiss ass doucebags I have ever met. Back now with the county in another agency. The grass aint greener.

Everyone knows the problem is the Administration and its many members. We can't even get a count of these people officially. Unless someone knows something I don't? Please enlighten me.

happy trails Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ya go ahead and work for the federal govt. I tried
> it after retiring from the county. The biggest
> cluster fuck in Fairfax didnt compare to the crap
> in the there. My boss at the feds told me, and
> this no lie, " you dont have to be good, just make
> the other guy look bad" Biggest bunch of
> backstabbing, kiss ass doucebags I have ever met.
> Back now with the county in another agency. The
> grass aint greener.


Where did I say it was the Federal Government that I was scouting?

Jealous much! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You wish you could move beyond a teaching job and
> up to admin. It is not an easy task. We need
> teachers but right now Dale wants teachers who can
> think outside the box. This will come to a
> surprise to the lazy teachers we have now. Fairfax
> county is going to set a standard for the nation.
>
> Hold on to your hats, it is going to be one wild
> ride. Out with the old and in with the new.

And here is the problem. The Administrators are useless and over paid. As a parent, I think the teachers are great (all but 1) with multiple children in school. FCPS should cut half the administrators, hire more teachers and improve their pupil to teacher ratio. And "tenure" shouldn't mean a single thing!

Inn The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> happy trails Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ya go ahead and work for the federal govt. I
> tried
> > it after retiring from the county. The biggest
> > cluster fuck in Fairfax didnt compare to the
> crap
> > in the there. My boss at the feds told me, and
> > this no lie, " you dont have to be good, just
> make
> > the other guy look bad" Biggest bunch of
> > backstabbing, kiss ass doucebags I have ever
> met.
> > Back now with the county in another agency. The
> > grass aint greener.
>
>
> Where did I say it was the Federal Government that
> I was scouting?


I didnt quote you or refer to you, you are one self centered asshole. You are not inn the know , apparently you fell like you know everything. You seem to have an opinion about everything, anybody who would hire you would be sorry very quickly

"Fairfax county is going to set a standard for the nation.
>
> Hold on to your hats, it is going to be one wild
> ride. Out with the old and in with the new."


The administrators really overestimate their effect on the whole system as evidenced by this post. "Setting a standard for the nation . . . wild ride . . . .???"

The parents are probably the biggest factor in any standards set in Fairfax. Second are the teachers. Way far behind those two factors are administrators.

Oh, yeah, they really took the family who wanted their epileptic son's service dog to be at school with him on a "wild ride". Real standard setting stuff there.

stfu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I didnt quote you or refer to you, you are one
> self centered asshole. You are not inn the know ,
> apparently you fell like you know everything. You
> seem to have an opinion about everything, anybody
> who would hire you would be sorry very quickly
>

Thanks for your kind comments. So, what school system did you graduate from? Your writing and punctuation are atrocious. Finally, regarding my career: my employers don't have any issues with me. I get great recognition and raises for the outstanding work that I do. I'm extremely well qualified in the areas that I work in.

I seem to sense a bit of jealousy in your post that you made. Am I correct?

No jealousy , just recognize a smug asshole. I so glad you are so proud of yourself. Let me guess, you also have a "I love me" wall with all your certificates and awards, Thank God there are folks like you so the rest of us have something to look up to and aspire to.

stfu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No jealousy , just recognize a smug asshole. I so
> glad you are so proud of yourself. Let me guess,
> you also have a "I love me" wall with all your
> certificates and awards, Thank God there are folks
> like you so the rest of us have something to look
> up to and aspire to.

Nope. I don't have an "I Love Me" wall of awards and certificates. No need for that. I don't have to flash or show off what I know. I'm much more humble than that. By the way, you have a very bad judgement of people. I hope you're not in a position where you perform job interviews of candidates. If so, you're not doing your company or agency any good.

We all would like to give teachers a raise. We all would like to get a raise our selves. This is a tactic that bureaucrat use all the time. Instead of cutting their pay or some extra programs they will lay it on the heads of the teachers. Surely you don't what to deprive thr teacher of their needed pay raise. It just like when California said it would have to cut fire and resque services. The idea is get the pay raise approved for the teachers then everyone else get a raise also.

I was always told that teacher teach because they love the job not the pay. I keep reading the statement you get what you pay for. We pay more in this country for schooling than most other countries but we are still not at the top for best school systems. If we did away with the teachers union then we might get what we have paid for. I'm not saying that they are not doing a good job it just cost to much per child.

sumguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....If we did away with the teachers
> union then we might get what we have paid for. I'm
> not saying that they are not doing a good job it
> just cost to much per child.


When are you dumb fucks going to get it through your thick skulls? THERE IS NO TEACHERS' UNION IN FAIRFAX COUNTY! (or any other County for that matter).

Teachers have an "association" (FEA and VEA), which have absolutely no power to force ANYTHING. They lobby for their members. They ASK for better treatment of teachers, that's all.

I pay the 15 bucks a payday, mainly for the liability insurance and legal services that come with membership.

Right To Work Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> When are you dumb fucks going to get it through
> your thick skulls? THERE IS NO TEACHERS' UNION IN
> FAIRFAX COUNTY! (or any other County for that
> matter).
>
> Teachers have an "association" (FEA and VEA),
> which have absolutely no power to force ANYTHING.
> They lobby for their members

Sorry, friend, when your 'association' leaders start threatening 'work to rule' that distinction does not matter.

It will NEVER happen. Teachers in Fairfax know they have good jobs. They just like to bitch and see if they can get a raise.

I say give them a raise but get rid of elementary school strings and music. Parents can pay for private lessons if they want. While we are at it get of the free lunch program. I agree parents should feed their own children.

Be careful about "work to the rule". Given most teachers put in a lot more than their contract requires, there are some who would have to start working a great deal harder in order to work to the rule!

Retired Teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be careful about "work to the rule". Given most
> teachers put in a lot more than their contract
> requires, there are some who would have to start
> working a great deal harder in order to work to
> the rule!

Actually, work to rule might get better results. They could do things like get report cards out in time, actually hold class on all the days they are supposed to, teach in June, not show movies all the time, etc.

Work to the rule? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I say give them a raise but get rid of elementary
> school strings and music. Parents can pay for
> private lessons if they want. While we are at it
> get of the free lunch program. I agree parents
> should feed their own children.
>

Why would you opt to get rid of the strings music program? It all starts in Elementary school. I say keep the program, but charge a fee - just as high schools do now for students to participate in band, etc.

The "free and reduced" lunch program is a joke - and so overly-abused. It's nothing but a social / welfare program that has gotten out of control.

We need real answers to what is really going on. Jack Dale just isn't perfectly honest about the system he has created and is running. The school board can't even get the information they need to make the decisions they have to make and plan properly. The school system is a mess and he will be long gone when it gets so bad that we find out much too late that the system needed fixing long before it will eventually happen.

They have stretched the tax payers budgets and our willingness to pay into this system so long we don't even know which end is up. They have hindreds of people at Administration devoted to nothing more than feeding the beast and keeping all those programs (and their own jobs) relevant, meanwhile the Library/Parks gets the cuts.

We need an independent auditor to some in with the authority to see what is going on with the schools and see where cost-cutting and effective budgeting can make a difference. Call or write your Supervisor and request that they propose for an Independent outside auditor take a look at what is going on at Gatehouse.

Take the schools back.

Totally agree with the above but as long as the school board is politically based and elected, there will never be any oversite.

Take the Schools Back Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Take the schools back.

This is a perfect sentiment. FCPS seems to have become about everyone and everything BUT the children. The worst thing to be in FCPS is an average child - not gifted, not LD, not homeless/illegal, not whatever. Just a normal, everyday kid. That 80% or so of the population is very poorly served.

Absolutely Right, and many teachers will tell you the same thing!!!!!

show them the door Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take the Schools Back Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Take the schools back.
>
> This is a perfect sentiment. FCPS seems to have
> become about everyone and everything BUT the
> children. The worst thing to be in FCPS is an
> average child - not gifted, not LD, not
> homeless/illegal, not whatever. Just a normal,
> everyday kid. That 80% or so of the population is
> very poorly served.

I thought Fairfax only produces smart kids. If you look how they move the kids around you know it is only to UP the test scores. They really don't care about the children. The kids are all just numbers to the SB.

tomato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally agree with the above but as long as the
> school board is politically based and elected,
> there will never be any oversite.


You must be new around here. Fairfax County School Board members were appointed for many decades, until around the early 90's, I think.

Folks said that an elected school board would be soooo much more accountable than an appointed board.

Be careful what you wish for, suckers!

Work to the rule will get you two scantron quizzes a week a midterm and a final, and no make ups. Also, no afterschool help for students who need help. If you leave school at 2:40 that's all there's time for--complying with data entry and paperwork requirements takes a good 30 min. per day. And that's what the contract says--you've gotta be there from 7:10-2:40, and you've gotta have the requisite grades and comply with the paperwork. Everything else is gravy. Maybe in addition to giving the pay cut, you can re-write the contract to include more duties. . .

Teaching is a hard job. However, it is only ten months and that includes holidays and Spring and Winter break. The work to the contract is 7.5 hours. Normally, some kind of lunch break is included in that.

I was a teacher and I understand all the extra work and stress that are involved. However, teachers are not the only people who bring work home.

If you figure the benefits and breaks that come with the job, the pay is fair. More would be nice, but it is not realistic in these times.

Bringing work home is not in the contract. And there's enough work to do in the day that it cant be included in the contract.
Again we are talking about ending the pay freeze instituted because of the downturn, and also stopping the addition of new and unpaid responsibilities to an already overworked group of employees. Some on this bulletin board think the teachers are already over compensated. They are entitled to their opinion, to be sure. But they are also entitled to know what they are going to get if the teachers associations make good on their promise to work to what is stipulated in the contract. They may be ok with that.

Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Work to the rule will get you two scantron quizzes
> a week a midterm and a final, and no make ups.
> Also, no afterschool help for students who need
> help.

When my kid needed some extra help, we were given a list if teachers available for tutoring for $50/hr. I've never seen a teacher offer makeups or extra credit to erase a poor grade. Go ahead and work to rule - I don't think it would be detectable.

Call T.J. The kids will come to your house for $10.00 an hour. Plus the students are fun and they like the work. Unlike a teacher who is burned out and pissed.

TJ students who tutor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Call T.J. The kids will come to your house for
> $10.00 an hour. Plus the students are fun and they
> like the work. Unlike a teacher who is burned out
> and pissed.


No thanks I like to buy American

Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bringing work home is not in the contract. And
> there's enough work to do in the day that it cant
> be included in the contract.
> Again we are talking about ending the pay freeze
> instituted because of the downturn, and also
> stopping the addition of new and unpaid
> responsibilities to an already overworked group of
> employees. Some on this bulletin board think the
> teachers are already over compensated. They are
> entitled to their opinion, to be sure. But they
> are also entitled to know what they are going to
> get if the teachers associations make good on
> their promise to work to what is stipulated in the
> contract. They may be ok with that.


The teachers at my school probably do have to bring home work since alot of their time is spent on personal emails and facebook

T.J. kids have time to tutor for $10 an hour with all the homework they get? And the after school activities that they have?

Please give some phone numbers.

Show him the back of my hand Wrote
-----------------------------------------
Again we are talking about ending the pay freeze
> instituted because of the downturn,

When the downturn ends the pay freeze can be lifted. The lowest paid teacher makes $30.00 an hour by my calculation. That not chump change THats a good wage for 4 years of college at entry level. I would challenge these under paid teacher to find a job that make the same money. I don't think you know that there aren't many job available out there that make $30.00 a hour entry level.

At our middle school tomorrow the kids will be going home at Noon for professional development.

I am sure a total waste of time-lost instruction time for students.

I have an IEP meeting scheduled next week for my special education student. None of her teachers will be attending-unlike past years. They will be offering a written summary which I guess I will read and if I have any questions about the summary they will not be there to answer them.

They do not want the teachers pulled during the day-even if they are not teaching (kids at art, music,etc). My request for either a before school or after school meeting was also declined.

So, won't this be a productive meeting with no teachers attending?

I'm sorry, I missed something. Why do you guys deserve a raise?

recent observations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At our middle school tomorrow the kids will be
> going home at Noon for professional development.
>
> I am sure a total waste of time-lost instruction
> time for students.
>
> I have an IEP meeting scheduled next week for my
> special education student. None of her teachers
> will be attending-unlike past years. They will be
> offering a written summary which I guess I will
> read and if I have any questions about the summary
> they will not be there to answer them.
>
> They do not want the teachers pulled during the
> day-even if they are not teaching (kids at art,
> music,etc). My request for either a before school
> or after school meeting was also declined.
>
> So, won't this be a productive meeting with no
> teachers attending?
>
> I'm sorry, I missed something. Why do you guys
> deserve a raise?


Remember, they do it for the love of the children. This is a calling for them, not a job.......

Back in September my daughter was struggling in science class. I talked with her teacher to see if we could meet after school for a conference.

He said he had to leave at 3pm every day because he coached a baseball team. As he explained it, it was a high school age team.

I guess if baseball is more important to him than helping my daughter in school, I would have to vote a BIG FAT NO for a pay raise for this clown.

Helping kids to become better adults is not in Fairfax Co. Sad but true. Call TJ. The kids would love the money and they are wonderful. Your child may learn something and they still love life.

I can top that! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in September my daughter was struggling in
> science class. I talked with her teacher to see
> if we could meet after school for a conference.
>
> He said he had to leave at 3pm every day because
> he coached a baseball team. As he explained it,
> it was a high school age team.
>
> I guess if baseball is more important to him than
> helping my daughter in school, I would have to
> vote a BIG FAT NO for a pay raise for this clown.


Ummm, maybe the clown needs the coaching pay? It's not like the clown is going to get a raise anytime soon.

Bullshit around with your retard daughter, or make a few bucks coaching? Seems like no brainer to me.

It seems like Show them the door's real problem is with the teacher of his kid, not with teachers in general. He's extrapolating from his own personal grievance to take revenge on all. This is not a good way to decide on public finance matters.

Recent observations, all the things you describe are not teacher arising issues--teachers have no control over half-days for professional development, and frankly most would rather not have it.

Many teachers would much prefer after school meetings, because it doesn't mess up the school day schedule. Moreover, teachers have very little input on IEP's since its just a list of extra accomodations that teacher must meet, much of which is silly (like excusing students from taking scantrons--which is basically excusing them from getting a job, since once high school is over, you have to do this stuff anyway). If you want a teacher conference, its not going to happen at an IEP, and teachers are basically told to shut up anyway.

My childs IEP went great. We had both teachers attend and they meet all my childs needs. My child attends Clifton elementary so I know this will not be the case at his next school.

We are going to send him to private school if next year his new school is a mess. I am glad we can afford it but I know many who cannot.

If I came to your place of business after closing hours and expected service, I would be a dumbass - just like you. The guy has a planning period during the day - take time off your oh-so-important-job and come to school during the school day for your conference.

And struggling in September??? Not even 20 days into the school year and you were already asking for a parent-teacher conference? Get out of your helicopter and let your kid try a little self-reliance.

I can top that! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in September my daughter was struggling in
> science class. I talked with her teacher to see
> if we could meet after school for a conference.
>
> He said he had to leave at 3pm every day because
> he coached a baseball team. As he explained it,
> it was a high school age team.
>
> I guess if baseball is more important to him than
> helping my daughter in school, I would have to
> vote a BIG FAT NO for a pay raise for this clown.

I can top that! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in September my daughter was struggling in
> science class. I talked with her teacher to see
> if we could meet after school for a conference.
>
> He said he had to leave at 3pm every day because
> he coached a baseball team. As he explained it,
> it was a high school age team.
>
> I guess if baseball is more important to him than
> helping my daughter in school, I would have to
> vote a BIG FAT NO for a pay raise for this clown.

Did you see if the teacher might be able to accomodate you prior to the start of school? They're usually pretty flexible if you inquire a bit deeper into the options. In your case, you seem as though you were only trying for an after-school meeting.

Try the before school option and maybe the teacher will even write you a note if you end up being late for work.

Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like Show them the door's real problem is
> with the teacher of his kid, not with teachers in
> general. He's extrapolating from his own personal
> grievance to take revenge on all. This is not a
> good way to decide on public finance matters.
>

Clever use of language - 'problem','grievance', 'revenge'. Must be my issue, could not be FCPS.

I would say after several years of experience now with FCPS, I'm to the point that I can generalize, at least when it comes to my kids particular school and the now 10+ teachers I've seen.

I guess what I find most amazing and really enlightening from FFXU is the level of contempt with which teachers hold parents and students. I really makes me look at the teachers in a different light.

I agree that the individual performance of teachers should not be linked to public finance. Individual performance should be addressed individually by administrators - I don't see it happening, but that's the way it should work.

It is the FEA, however, that are threatening to 'work to rule' - directly saying that without a raise, teachers will begin intentionally performing at a lower level. It is FEA that is connecting those dots, not me.

show them the door Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is the FEA, however, that are threatening to
> 'work to rule' - directly saying that without a
> raise, teachers will begin intentionally
> performing at a lower level. It is FEA that is
> connecting those dots, not me.

Just to clarify, the FEA is not saying teachers will perform at a lower level; they are saying they will perform at their expected contract level rather than the over-and-above level they are currently working at for the students' benefit.

If they were to really at least do that it would be refreshing

show them the door Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It seems like Show them the door's real problem
> is
> > with the teacher of his kid, not with teachers
> in
> > general. He's extrapolating from his own
> personal
> > grievance to take revenge on all. This is not a
> > good way to decide on public finance matters.
> >
>
> Clever use of language - 'problem','grievance',
> 'revenge'. Must be my issue, could not be FCPS.
>
>
> I would say after several years of experience now
> with FCPS, I'm to the point that I can generalize,
> at least when it comes to my kids particular
> school and the now 10+ teachers I've seen.
>
> I guess what I find most amazing and really
> enlightening from FFXU is the level of contempt
> with which teachers hold parents and students. I
> really makes me look at the teachers in a
> different light.
>
> I agree that the individual performance of
> teachers should not be linked to public finance.
> Individual performance should be addressed
> individually by administrators - I don't see it
> happening, but that's the way it should work.
>
> It is the FEA, however, that are threatening to
> 'work to rule' - directly saying that without a
> raise, teachers will begin intentionally
> performing at a lower level. It is FEA that is
> connecting those dots, not me.


What work to the rule means is that we work to our contract and not beyond. For example, we would stop writing college recs, sponsoring clubs and classes, attending meetings etc for which we do not get paid. I know very few people who willingly work beyond their contract hours in any walk of life- I know even fewer who don't complain about it when they do. This is usually the part where people like you say ,"Yeah but you get thre months off". No, we don't. We get paid for 180 days, it's just that most of us choose to have our salary broken up into twelve monthly payments: we CAN opt for the 91/2 month payout if we choose- so don't paint us as sedentary misanthropes looking for reasons to bitch.I see no reason to continue volunteering when the work we do is not properly acknowledged with financial remuneration year in and year out.
When you say it is amazing the contempt that we have for parents you miss some things:
1. Most of us are also parents who also have kids in FCPS- do you think we have contempt for ourselves?
2. It is people like you who catalyze contempt. Clearly, your kid is having an issue and you are salty about it. I am not saying who is right or wrong because I couldn't know, but to turn your personal beef into a sweeping generalization of all teachers is absurd.

I am not saying that education in the County is perfect - far from it. But look no further than your mirror if you want to discover the reason why teachers are wary of parents.

While I am here, I may as well take a few seconds to laugh at the person above who said, "I guess if baseball is more important to him than
helping my daughter in school..." about a teacher who said he has to leave by three. Yes, numbnuts, he probably puts HIS interests ahead of your daughter's, just like you want him to put your daughter's ahead of his. By volunteering to stay after with her until three every day, he is staying beyond his obligated time to help your offspring. The funny part is, I am guessing that maybe your daughter has some other commitment that precludes her from getting to the teacher until after three or something, which, if true, shows that you yourself value something more over her education. Even if it is not true, should he, in your opinion, work on your schedule? Should he Forego a chance to supplement his income for the benefit of your little princess? What an arrogant ass

If your daughter needs help you should HIRE a tutor.Stop bitching and get your child some help. You sound like a loser so your child will be one too. You a setting up a bad example for her. You need to lead the way. It is not the schools fault your daughter cannot learn.

Mr.Kotter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What work to the rule means is that we work to our
> contract and not beyond. For example, we would
> stop writing college recs, sponsoring clubs and
> classes, attending meetings etc for which we do
> not get paid. I know very few people who willingly
> work beyond their contract hours in any walk of
> life- I know even fewer who don't complain about
> it when they do.

Welcome back Mr. Kotter. Writing this during your prep period are you? Must have come here after facebook.

Most professional employees, including the ones all around you in Fairfax County, are salaried and are expected to work whatever it takes to get the job done. Now, if that's consistently 60 hours a week, people will leave so private employers try not to do that. But 40 - 45 hours a week is pretty standard (not 37.5) and I know of few professionals that don't have to put in that kind of time.

You talk as if the schools are some Industrial Age manufacturing plant with strict union rules.


> This is usually the part where
> people like you say ,"Yeah but you get thre months
> off". No, we don't. We get paid for 180 days, it's
> just that most of us choose to have our salary
> broken up into twelve monthly payments: we CAN opt
> for the 91/2 month payout if we choose- so don't
> paint us as sedentary misanthropes looking for
> reasons to bitch.

This is a misdirection. It's always about 'well it's a 184 day year'... You need to look at from an annual comp perspective. You are being paid what is a good annual wage overall (starting salary 44K, tops out at 92K). And, if you normalize that salary to someone who works the entire year, it compares to someone making 60K as a starting salary, etc. Plus, you have all sorts of opportunities in the summer to work if you choose at camps, summer school, etc. I'm not saying you'll get rich around here on those wages, but it's not a bad deal either.

> I see no reason to continue
> volunteering when the work we do is not properly
> acknowledged with financial remuneration year in
> and year out.

Then your should not. Perhaps if you feel so aggreived, you should leave FCPS employment and find other work. Your union seems to think that's what you'll do.

> When you say it is amazing the contempt that we
> have for parents you miss some things:
> 1. Most of us are also parents who also have kids
> in FCPS- do you think we have contempt for
> ourselves?

You'd be better answering that than I.

> 2. It is people like you who catalyze contempt.
> Clearly, your kid is having an issue and you are
> salty about it. I am not saying who is right or
> wrong because I couldn't know, but to turn your
> personal beef into a sweeping generalization of
> all teachers is absurd.

Ah, it's my fault. I knew that would be in here somewhere.

>
> I am not saying that education in the County is
> perfect - far from it. But look no further than
> your mirror if you want to discover the reason why
> teachers are wary of parents.
>

And look no further than your comment about refusing to do anything above your standard contract for the parents contempt for you.

> While I am here, I may as well take a few seconds
> to laugh at the person above who said, "I guess if
> baseball is more important to him than
> helping my daughter in school..." about a teacher
> who said he has to leave by three. Yes, numbnuts,
> he probably puts HIS interests ahead of your
> daughter's, just like you want him to put your
> daughter's ahead of his. By volunteering to stay
> after with her until three every day, he is
> staying beyond his obligated time to help your
> offspring. The funny part is, I am guessing that
> maybe your daughter has some other commitment that
> precludes her from getting to the teacher until
> after three or something, which, if true, shows
> that you yourself value something more over her
> education. Even if it is not true, should he, in
> your opinion, work on your schedule? Should he
> Forego a chance to supplement his income for the
> benefit of your little princess? What an arrogant
> ass

One last 'kids are animals, parents are assholes' comment. Very predictable.

Let's see how this works. I leave work at 6:30 AM and get home at 7:00 pm, if I am lucky. I pay into my health insurance. I get three weeks paid vacation a year. I feel lucky to have my job. You would never last at my company. I make $155,000 but that is because I work hard and I do not complain.

Good luck to you!

show them the door Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr.Kotter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > What work to the rule means is that we work to
> our
> > contract and not beyond. For example, we would
> > stop writing college recs, sponsoring clubs and
> > classes, attending meetings etc for which we do
> > not get paid. I know very few people who
> willingly
> > work beyond their contract hours in any walk of
> > life- I know even fewer who don't complain
> about
> > it when they do.
>
> Welcome back Mr. Kotter. Writing this during your
> prep period are you? Must have come here after
> facebook.
>
> Most professional employees, including the ones
> all around you in Fairfax County, are salaried and
> are expected to work whatever it takes to get the
> job done. Now, if that's consistently 60 hours a
> week, people will leave so private employers try
> not to do that. But 40 - 45 hours a week is
> pretty standard (not 37.5) and I know of few
> professionals that don't have to put in that kind
> of time.
>
> You talk as if the schools are some Industrial Age
> manufacturing plant with strict union rules.
>
>
> > This is usually the part where
> > people like you say ,"Yeah but you get thre
> months
> > off". No, we don't. We get paid for 180 days,
> it's
> > just that most of us choose to have our salary
> > broken up into twelve monthly payments: we CAN
> opt
> > for the 91/2 month payout if we choose- so
> don't
> > paint us as sedentary misanthropes looking for
> > reasons to bitch.
>
> This is a misdirection. It's always about 'well
> it's a 184 day year'... You need to look at from
> an annual comp perspective. You are being paid
> what is a good annual wage overall (starting
> salary 44K, tops out at 92K). And, if you
> normalize that salary to someone who works the
> entire year, it compares to someone making 60K as
> a starting salary, etc. Plus, you have all sorts
> of opportunities in the summer to work if you
> choose at camps, summer school, etc. I'm not
> saying you'll get rich around here on those wages,
> but it's not a bad deal either.
>
> > I see no reason to continue
> > volunteering when the work we do is not
> properly
> > acknowledged with financial remuneration year
> in
> > and year out.
>
> Then your should not. Perhaps if you feel so
> aggreived, you should leave FCPS employment and
> find other work. Your union seems to think that's
> what you'll do.
>
> > When you say it is amazing the contempt that we
> > have for parents you miss some things:
> > 1. Most of us are also parents who also have
> kids
> > in FCPS- do you think we have contempt for
> > ourselves?
>
> You'd be better answering that than I.
>
> > 2. It is people like you who catalyze contempt.
> > Clearly, your kid is having an issue and you
> are
> > salty about it. I am not saying who is right or
> > wrong because I couldn't know, but to turn your
> > personal beef into a sweeping generalization of
> > all teachers is absurd.
>
> Ah, it's my fault. I knew that would be in here
> somewhere.
>
> >
> > I am not saying that education in the County is
> > perfect - far from it. But look no further than
> > your mirror if you want to discover the reason
> why
> > teachers are wary of parents.
> >
>
> And look no further than your comment about
> refusing to do anything above your standard
> contract for the parents contempt for you.
>
> > While I am here, I may as well take a few
> seconds
> > to laugh at the person above who said, "I guess
> if
> > baseball is more important to him than
> > helping my daughter in school..." about a
> teacher
> > who said he has to leave by three. Yes,
> numbnuts,
> > he probably puts HIS interests ahead of your
> > daughter's, just like you want him to put your
> > daughter's ahead of his. By volunteering to
> stay
> > after with her until three every day, he is
> > staying beyond his obligated time to help your
> > offspring. The funny part is, I am guessing
> that
> > maybe your daughter has some other commitment
> that
> > precludes her from getting to the teacher until
> > after three or something, which, if true, shows
> > that you yourself value something more over her
> > education. Even if it is not true, should he,
> in
> > your opinion, work on your schedule? Should he
> > Forego a chance to supplement his income for
> the
> > benefit of your little princess? What an
> arrogant
> > ass
>
> One last 'kids are animals, parents are assholes'
> comment. Very predictable.

I actually am writing during my off period, but I was grading papers before that. Since I will be staying here until 9pm tonight for something, I figure I can take a few minutes to talk to you. What brings you here pray tell? You seem to have plenty of time on your hands. I am sure it is only teachers who frequent this locality during their workday correct?

First of all, I would venture to say almost all of us work more than 45 hours per week, so your point there falls completely flat.
Your statement that I am presenting a "misdirection" is a deliberately deceptive ploy on your part; we are getting paid at a rate that equates to 180 days- no need to "normalize" because our contract is what it is. Also thanks for recognizing that I have the "opportunity" to work more often, although I do concede that you are correct there and that I , personally, do. I also spend a great deal of time in the summer preparing my lessons for the year: i actually love doing that and won't complain about it. In fact, I don't often complain at all because our unions do protect weak teachers and allow them to slack off and do a terrible job without worrying about getting fired. I personally wish there was a merit pay system, but that will most likely never happen.

What I do complain about is people like you. Why don't you just admit that your kid has a specific issue with some teacher and that is getting you all fired up.It is also causing you, who I think must be a reasonably intelligent person, to fall into a nepotism based rant against all of us. I, and many of my colleauges , are just like you: we live here, send our kids to school here, and , for the most part, enjoy many advantages of being reasonably financially secure. However, that doesn't mean that we won't get upset when, year after year, we are denied COLA or step increases, yet se money being devoted to pet projects, pilot projects, and the newest educational fads that will soon fade into obscurity.

FOr the record, I don't feel that all parents are assholes. I actually have a great relationship with many of the parents at my school, occasionally even hang out with them socially, and often keep in touch with their children for years after they graduate. It is also not uncommon for me to employ former students in side businesses that I run. I DO, however, think that you are being an asshole: you are using a specific problem that you are having to condemn all of us and argue that we don't deserve a pay raise. How does that make sense? The other guy , who says that the teacher should basically work to help his daughter when HE wants the teacher to, is nuts. There has to be some degree of respect on both sides of the coin.

Just say "year round school " to a teacher and watch them almost pass out. I lost count of the number of them that say if it were not for being off all summer , they would find something else. Let's cut the crap about commitment, the pedestal has been kicked out from under them.

hours real people work Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's see how this works. I leave work at 6:30 AM
> and get home at 7:00 pm, if I am lucky. I pay into
> my health insurance. I get three weeks paid
> vacation a year. I feel lucky to have my job. You
> would never last at my company. I make $155,000
> but that is because I work hard and I do not
> complain.
>
> Good luck to you!

I'd say you have no reason to complain. $155K in this area is a good salary. There are plenty of others that are working the same hours as you, putting money into their health plans, too - yet, only making $75-80K. You should consider yourself quite lucky.

That is NOT a lot of money for this area. I hope he is young and can move up in his company.

Mr.Kotter Wrote:
> I actually am writing during my off period, but I
> was grading papers before that. Since I will be
> staying here until 9pm tonight for something, I
> figure I can take a few minutes to talk to you.
> What brings you here pray tell? You seem to have
> plenty of time on your hands. I am sure it is only
> teachers who frequent this locality during their
> workday correct?

I have no one to answer to but myself, so if I waste time on FFXU, well, I can make that choice.

>
> First of all, I would venture to say almost all of
> us work more than 45 hours per week, so your point
> there falls completely flat.
> Your statement that I am presenting a
> "misdirection" is a deliberately deceptive ploy on
> your part; we are getting paid at a rate that
> equates to 180 days- no need to "normalize"
> because our contract is what it is.

I agree the contract is what it is. But the defense teachers consistently use is the 184 day contract, to which I say: We all live, work, eat, etc. 365 days a year. Most employees work 250 or so days per year and we rightly look at thier salaries as annual compensation. We should look at teachers salaries the same way - compensation for your time for the entire year. You are correct that you did not design the school day and the school year in its current form. But as a result of it, you can work in the summer time. You say your run a side business - good for you. So you are being paid a wage that is intended as a full years compensation AND you can, if you want, supplement with additional work. Plus coaching, extracurriculars, tutoring, etc. offer further opportunities for compensation that are directly related to your field. Something which, in the private sector, is done only for hourly employees. No one in a private company is getting paid extra to take on an additional assignment.


>Also thanks
> for recognizing that I have the "opportunity" to
> work more often, although I do concede that you
> are correct there and that I , personally, do. I
> also spend a great deal of time in the summer
> preparing my lessons for the year: i actually love
> doing that and won't complain about it. In fact, I
> don't often complain at all because our unions do
> protect weak teachers and allow them to slack off
> and do a terrible job without worrying about
> getting fired. I personally wish there was a merit
> pay system, but that will most likely never
> happen.

The concept of merit pay seems great, but I'm afraid it would just become another poorly managed mess. I think that was borne out by what happened in DC - to get merit pay in place they ended up giving everyone a rather substantial raise. The top of the scale prior to the merit pay contract way 87K, it is now 147K. If doubling salaries is the teachers union idea of merit pay, I think FCPS should pass.

>
> What I do complain about is people like you. Why
> don't you just admit that your kid has a specific
> issue with some teacher and that is getting you
> all fired up.

I've actually come to my conclusions after many years for dealing with different teachers and administrators. My kids are doing just fine in FCPS - straight A's for the most part. They'll do just fine, and if FCPS fails them in some way, I have the ability to supplement FCPS or replace it entirely if I need to at some point. I have my doubts about private schools being any different/better, though. I work hard to make sure I have that option.

> It is also causing you, who I think
> must be a reasonably intelligent person, to fall
> into a nepotism based rant against all of us.

I'll tell you what I tell my kids when someone is unhappy about what the other has - you can be treated as an individual or a group. Everyone can get the same exact thing, or you can be treated as an individual and there will be some variation based on wants/needs/circumstance/etc. If you don't want to be lumped together as a group, I suggest you not have the head of the union on TV talking about work to rule.


> I,
> and many of my colleauges , are just like you: we
> live here, send our kids to school here, and , for
> the most part, enjoy many advantages of being
> reasonably financially secure. However, that
> doesn't mean that we won't get upset when, year
> after year, we are denied COLA or step increases,
> yet se money being devoted to pet projects, pilot
> projects, and the newest educational fads that
> will soon fade into obscurity.

Here's the thing on wanting a raise: There is 9.4% unemployment right, and double that if you include underemployment. You have chosen a profession that is paid for by taxpayers. That's where you cast your lot when you chose your job at FCPS. Now that worked great back in 2000-2007, when tax assessments were going up 10% a year like clockwork. Now, times are tough for the county and the state, due to both unemployment and the real estate collapse.

Also, a bright light is being shone on your benefits - healthcare and retirement - that seem to be significantly better than ones in the private sector. You can make all the arguments you like what any employee SHOULD get on healthcare or retirement - this is just the way it is right now. It puts the teachers (and actually most public employees) in the position of defending the indefensible.

For retirement, I'm on my own and that counts for most private workers. I'm ok with that - let's me know I've got no one to fall back on but myself. But when I look at FCPS paying both the employer and the employee portion of VRS, it seems like not just a good deal (take less pay now, get better benefits later) but more like a corrupt deal.

On work to rule, I will tell you this - someone who shows up at a private employer one day and says 'Without a raise, I'm not working as hard' would be packing up their desk that day. That's what your union has said. Now you won't get fired for that at FCPS, but don't expect the community to rally to your side with that kind of approach.

>
> FOr the record, I don't feel that all parents are
> assholes. I actually have a great relationship
> with many of the parents at my school,
> occasionally even hang out with them socially, and
> often keep in touch with their children for years
> after they graduate. It is also not uncommon for
> me to employ former students in side businesses
> that I run. I DO, however, think that you are
> being an asshole: you are using a specific problem
> that you are having to condemn all of us and argue
> that we don't deserve a pay raise. How does that
> make sense?

I'm not sure calling me an asshole reflects well on on you as a teacher. I've been called worse by better, so it doesn't really matter to me. Just something to think about.

> The other guy , who says that the
> teacher should basically work to help his daughter
> when HE wants the teacher to, is nuts. There has
> to be some degree of respect on both sides of the
> coin.

I agree with that.

Work to the rule sounds pretty funny considering what I saw at my daughter's school. I was in the front office dropping something off when one of the women at the front desk said schools were closing early du e to weather. She commented the kids were going out 2 hours early but staff was required to stay. A teacher walking through wheeled around and said very loudy to all the other employees, You all may have to stay but I dont have a 7th period, I'm outta here as soon as I get my coat". Try pulling that where I work and your possessions would be in a box waiting for you the next day i the lobby. Very professional I must say! What a role model, would love to be with him on a sinking ship. Rather than working to rule, I would say that constituted fraud at taxpayer expense. I would love to see the union defend that behavior!

show them the door Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr.Kotter Wrote:
> > I actually am writing during my off period, but
> I
> > was grading papers before that. Since I will be
> > staying here until 9pm tonight for something, I
> > figure I can take a few minutes to talk to you.
> > What brings you here pray tell? You seem to
> have
> > plenty of time on your hands. I am sure it is
> only
> > teachers who frequent this locality during
> their
> > workday correct?
>
> I have no one to answer to but myself, so if I
> waste time on FFXU, well, I can make that choice.
>
>
> >
> > First of all, I would venture to say almost all
> of
> > us work more than 45 hours per week, so your
> point
> > there falls completely flat.
> > Your statement that I am presenting a
> > "misdirection" is a deliberately deceptive ploy
> on
> > your part; we are getting paid at a rate that
> > equates to 180 days- no need to "normalize"
> > because our contract is what it is.
>
> I agree the contract is what it is. But the
> defense teachers consistently use is the 184 day
> contract, to which I say: We all live, work, eat,
> etc. 365 days a year. Most employees work 250 or
> so days per year and we rightly look at thier
> salaries as annual compensation. We should look
> at teachers salaries the same way - compensation
> for your time for the entire year. You are
> correct that you did not design the school day and
> the school year in its current form. But as a
> result of it, you can work in the summer time.
> You say your run a side business - good for you.
> So you are being paid a wage that is intended as a
> full years compensation AND you can, if you want,
> supplement with additional work. Plus coaching,
> extracurriculars, tutoring, etc. offer further
> opportunities for compensation that are directly
> related to your field. Something which, in the
> private sector, is done only for hourly employees.
> No one in a private company is getting paid extra
> to take on an additional assignment.
>
>
> >Also thanks
> > for recognizing that I have the "opportunity"
> to
> > work more often, although I do concede that you
> > are correct there and that I , personally, do.
> I
> > also spend a great deal of time in the summer
> > preparing my lessons for the year: i actually
> love
> > doing that and won't complain about it. In fact,
> I
> > don't often complain at all because our unions
> do
> > protect weak teachers and allow them to slack
> off
> > and do a terrible job without worrying about
> > getting fired. I personally wish there was a
> merit
> > pay system, but that will most likely never
> > happen.
>
> The concept of merit pay seems great, but I'm
> afraid it would just become another poorly managed
> mess. I think that was borne out by what happened
> in DC - to get merit pay in place they ended up
> giving everyone a rather substantial raise. The
> top of the scale prior to the merit pay contract
> way 87K, it is now 147K. If doubling salaries is
> the teachers union idea of merit pay, I think FCPS
> should pass.
>
> >
> > What I do complain about is people like you.
> Why
> > don't you just admit that your kid has a
> specific
> > issue with some teacher and that is getting you
> > all fired up.
>
> I've actually come to my conclusions after many
> years for dealing with different teachers and
> administrators. My kids are doing just fine in
> FCPS - straight A's for the most part. They'll do
> just fine, and if FCPS fails them in some way, I
> have the ability to supplement FCPS or replace it
> entirely if I need to at some point. I have my
> doubts about private schools being any
> different/better, though. I work hard to make
> sure I have that option.
>
> > It is also causing you, who I think
> > must be a reasonably intelligent person, to
> fall
> > into a nepotism based rant against all of us.
>
> I'll tell you what I tell my kids when someone is
> unhappy about what the other has - you can be
> treated as an individual or a group. Everyone can
> get the same exact thing, or you can be treated as
> an individual and there will be some variation
> based on wants/needs/circumstance/etc. If you
> don't want to be lumped together as a group, I
> suggest you not have the head of the union on TV
> talking about work to rule.
>
>
> > I,
> > and many of my colleauges , are just like you:
> we
> > live here, send our kids to school here, and ,
> for
> > the most part, enjoy many advantages of being
> > reasonably financially secure. However, that
> > doesn't mean that we won't get upset when, year
> > after year, we are denied COLA or step
> increases,
> > yet se money being devoted to pet projects,
> pilot
> > projects, and the newest educational fads that
> > will soon fade into obscurity.
>
> Here's the thing on wanting a raise: There is
> 9.4% unemployment right, and double that if you
> include underemployment. You have chosen a
> profession that is paid for by taxpayers. That's
> where you cast your lot when you chose your job at
> FCPS. Now that worked great back in 2000-2007,
> when tax assessments were going up 10% a year like
> clockwork. Now, times are tough for the county
> and the state, due to both unemployment and the
> real estate collapse.
>
> Also, a bright light is being shone on your
> benefits - healthcare and retirement - that seem
> to be significantly better than ones in the
> private sector. You can make all the arguments
> you like what any employee SHOULD get on
> healthcare or retirement - this is just the way it
> is right now. It puts the teachers (and actually
> most public employees) in the position of
> defending the indefensible.
>
> For retirement, I'm on my own and that counts for
> most private workers. I'm ok with that - let's me
> know I've got no one to fall back on but myself.
> But when I look at FCPS paying both the employer
> and the employee portion of VRS, it seems like not
> just a good deal (take less pay now, get better
> benefits later) but more like a corrupt deal.
>
> On work to rule, I will tell you this - someone
> who shows up at a private employer one day and
> says 'Without a raise, I'm not working as hard'
> would be packing up their desk that day. That's
> what your union has said. Now you won't get fired
> for that at FCPS, but don't expect the community
> to rally to your side with that kind of approach.
>
>
> >
> > FOr the record, I don't feel that all parents
> are
> > assholes. I actually have a great relationship
> > with many of the parents at my school,
> > occasionally even hang out with them socially,
> and
> > often keep in touch with their children for
> years
> > after they graduate. It is also not uncommon
> for
> > me to employ former students in side businesses
> > that I run. I DO, however, think that you are
> > being an asshole: you are using a specific
> problem
> > that you are having to condemn all of us and
> argue
> > that we don't deserve a pay raise. How does
> that
> > make sense?
>
> I'm not sure calling me an asshole reflects well
> on on you as a teacher. I've been called worse by
> better, so it doesn't really matter to me. Just
> something to think about.
>
> > The other guy , who says that the
> > teacher should basically work to help his
> daughter
> > when HE wants the teacher to, is nuts. There
> has
> > to be some degree of respect on both sides of
> the
> > coin.
>
> I agree with that.


I am not sure how the fact that my salary is being provided by the taxpayers should preclude me from wanting a raise, particularly since most taxpayers, including myself, see glaring flaws in the way their tax dollars are being spent regarding improving education. I hope you don't also feel that our police and militarly personnel shouldn't receive raises.
I get the sense that you are a stay at home, and if so , I bet you get very upset when someone says that is not real work, especially since it is clear that your children are school aged and you could work while they are at school if you chose to. If you are not a stay at home, I guess I am off target, but you seem to have a lot of time to research what we get paid and to form opinions. I will say that, if it is true that your students get straight As, it is unusual for the parent of an academically successful student to have an axe to grind.
Further, I didn't CALL you an asshole, I said you are being one, which means when you are not being one you are something else.
Thanks for conceding the last point at least.

real world observations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Work to the rule sounds pretty funny considering
> what I saw at my daughter's school. I was in the
> front office dropping something off when one of
> the women at the front desk said schools were
> closing early du e to weather. She commented the
> kids were going out 2 hours early but staff was
> required to stay. A teacher walking through
> wheeled around and said very loudy to all the
> other employees, You all may have to stay but I
> dont have a 7th period, I'm outta here as soon as
> I get my coat". Try pulling that where I work and
> your possessions would be in a box waiting for you
> the next day i the lobby. Very professional I must
> say! What a role model, would love to be with him
> on a sinking ship. Rather than working to rule, I
> would say that constituted fraud at taxpayer
> expense. I would love to see the union defend that
> behavior!


I agree, that is ridiculous. I also agree that unions protect weak teachers. Is it logical though to judge us all by this one person?

This debate is silly. This is simple Labor Economics.

Wages are dictated by market forces.

FCPS is inundated with qualified applicants who are more than happy to work at the prevailing wage scale with the cushy benefits package.

If you honestly think FCPS is underpaying you, then why does the labor supply/demand curve tell us otherwise?

You can whine all day long about what you think you deserve but the market is telling us something else.

I have many neighbors who are teachers, at gatherings they have gloated about doing this under the pretense of "working at home" or I had to get home to MY kids (like the rest of the world doesnt?) I dont think this was isolated by any means, I was just shocked that a teacher would be as bold as to flaunt this in front of parents and other school employees. Very sad, many professional images are set in peoples minds by one or 2 bad encounters. Showed a very basic lack of professionalism and maturity. Again he is a role model for hundreds of up and coming citizens. Maybe he learned this every man and women for themselves mentality from his teacher...

Mr.Kotter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not sure how the fact that my salary is being
> provided by the taxpayers should preclude me from
> wanting a raise, particularly since most
> taxpayers, including myself, see glaring flaws in
> the way their tax dollars are being spent
> regarding improving education. I hope you don't
> also feel that our police and militarly personnel
> shouldn't receive raises.
> I get the sense that you are a stay at home, and
> if so , I bet you get very upset when someone says
> that is not real work, especially since it is
> clear that your children are school aged and you
> could work while they are at school if you chose
> to. If you are not a stay at home, I guess I am
> off target, but you seem to have a lot of time to
> research what we get paid and to form opinions. I
> will say that, if it is true that your students
> get straight As, it is unusual for the parent of
> an academically successful student to have an axe
> to grind.
> Further, I didn't CALL you an asshole, I said you
> are being one, which means when you are not being
> one you are something else.
> Thanks for conceding the last point at least.


Making your living from other people's taxes puts you at the absolute mercy of the economy. It's kind of like the value of my house - if my neighbor goes into foreclosure, the value of my home is effected, and there's not a thing I can do about it. People in for-profit endeavors are making less profit, employing fewer people, are scared by higher regulation and taxation, etc. All of that combines into lower tax receipts to the govt. Thus, the government has less money to provide for employee raises. And there's not a thing you can do about it until the economy gets better.

That may not be fair to you as an individual, but you have a choice to remain tied to that system and what may seem like an arbitrary impact on your wages and benefits (it's actually completely rational), or leave and go to work in an area where you are more the master of your own fate. What I find particularly unpleasant is the FEA's decision that since they are not happy with the turn the economy has taken, they will enact their punishment on the students by working to rule. Hey, if you don't like the deal you are getting, leave. Don't hang around and make everyone else miserable.

BTW, I am not a stay at home. I do have a fairly irregular schedule though, allowing me to pontificate here.

show them the door Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr.Kotter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am not sure how the fact that my salary is
> being
> > provided by the taxpayers should preclude me
> from
> > wanting a raise, particularly since most
> > taxpayers, including myself, see glaring flaws
> in
> > the way their tax dollars are being spent
> > regarding improving education. I hope you don't
> > also feel that our police and militarly
> personnel
> > shouldn't receive raises.
> > I get the sense that you are a stay at home,
> and
> > if so , I bet you get very upset when someone
> says
> > that is not real work, especially since it is
> > clear that your children are school aged and
> you
> > could work while they are at school if you
> chose
> > to. If you are not a stay at home, I guess I am
> > off target, but you seem to have a lot of time
> to
> > research what we get paid and to form opinions.
> I
> > will say that, if it is true that your students
> > get straight As, it is unusual for the parent
> of
> > an academically successful student to have an
> axe
> > to grind.
> > Further, I didn't CALL you an asshole, I said
> you
> > are being one, which means when you are not
> being
> > one you are something else.
> > Thanks for conceding the last point at least.
>
>
> Making your living from other people's taxes puts
> you at the absolute mercy of the economy. It's
> kind of like the value of my house - if my
> neighbor goes into foreclosure, the value of my
> home is effected, and there's not a thing I can do
> about it. People in for-profit endeavors are
> making less profit, employing fewer people, are
> scared by higher regulation and taxation, etc.
> All of that combines into lower tax receipts to
> the govt. Thus, the government has less money to
> provide for employee raises. And there's not a
> thing you can do about it until the economy gets
> better.
>
> That may not be fair to you as an individual, but
> you have a choice to remain tied to that system
> and what may seem like an arbitrary impact on your
> wages and benefits (it's actually completely
> rational), or leave and go to work in an area
> where you are more the master of your own fate.
> What I find particularly unpleasant is the FEA's
> decision that since they are not happy with the
> turn the economy has taken, they will enact their
> punishment on the students by working to rule.
> Hey, if you don't like the deal you are getting,
> leave. Don't hang around and make everyone else
> miserable.
>
> BTW, I am not a stay at home. I do have a fairly
> irregular schedule though, allowing me to
> pontificate here.

Millions of Americans are paid by the taxpayers' dollars, and , despite that, those same millions of people want raises. Some people deserve them, and some don't, but the federal, state, and local governments have developed systems in which step increases and COLAs are given based on years of service. When those steps are frozen year after year, I think it is only natural for people to complain, especially when we see that there is money available for other programs.

As far as working to the rule goes, nobody seems grateful that many of us don't already work to the rule now, but you sure seem ready to condemn us if we all DO start working to the rule. I am not asking for thanks , but I do think it would be nice if people understood if we made the viable act of protest that we can make: we cannot strike, so working to the rule is really the only way of expressing our displeasure. As far as working elsewhere, I don't want to , thanks. I like my job, I just want a raise.

Pistols at dawn or STFU and GTFO

I don't understand why all the arguing over a 2% raise after 2 years of no raise. The cost of living has increased more than 2% over the 2 years and teachers are the kinds of people who will spend this money and stimulate the county. Even after the whopping 2%, they will still be behind on COLA. The guy making 155K probably would probably not spend the extra 2% if he were paid 2% more next year (in other words, he doesn't need the money to live). The teachers were not getting COLAs which were higher than the cost of living in any of the past years. As for the pensions, there has already been a change in what the benefits will be for teachers who are signing on now (they will pay in much more and get much less out). Even the teachers that are in right now will get less because the retirement amounts are not guaranteed until a person actually retires. As for health insurance, the teachers already pay a large part of that. I honestly don't see what the beef is. If teachers are suddenly "bad" and "lazy" because the taxpayers suddenly don't want to pay their taxes, that's just their justification for not paying the teachers. When there is plenty of money I suppose the teachers will be wonderful and brilliant? Or maybe the teachers will always be bad and lazy just because the job is public and it's easy to pick on them (and hard to pick on people in private industry because we can't see what they're doing---even though some of them obviously got us into this economic mess and are being bailed out)? A teacher who makes 44K is not feeling so bad for the guy making 155K---trust me. It will take the teacher 4 years to top his one year salary.

to real world observations--teachers aren't required to stay after early dismissal--generally if its early dimissial the school tells teachers to go home just to get them off the roads. The teacher was probably making a statement that they weren't going to abide by something cooked up by the local admin staff. But that said, they shouldn't announce it like that, and they certainly can't leave during the school day, even if truncated, without prior approval.

Show them the door's subsequent comments do much to demonstrate my contention that his grievances are personal. For example, instead of arguing his point coherently, he makes statements like "I guess what I find most amazing and really enlightening from FFXU is the level of contempt with which teachers hold parents and students. I really makes me look at the teachers in a different light."

Now many here may be arguing passionately for their livelihood and in defense of the contributions to society that they believe they make--but are they "contemptuous"? To the contrary, with a few exceptions perhaps, most contributors here have highlighted good relations with parents and students and have volunteered suggestions to make relations better.

Indeed, Show them the door seems to be fixated on the "contemptuous" treatment he percieves himself to have received in a past incident, and then feigns that the encounters here have "really made [him] look at teachers in a different light."

Does anyone believe, based on his claim of longterm and specifically negative encounters with teachers that his encounters on this bulletin board have soured his opinion? What a highly disingenous argument that is. . . .

Moreover, many have made the point here, as did the union representatives to the media (from both Loudon and Fairfax) that the Administration's piling on of additional duties in the midst of a salary frieze is the more objectionable part here. The comments to the FCPS School Board last week were exactly that.

Yet Show them the door consistently invokes the FCPS as his shibboleth to charge good employees he's never met with the crimes visited upon him and his.

Finally, he pretends to be all offended by the invocations of "Work to the rule" when above he made it clear that since he didn't consider teachers to be doing their job, he found "Work to the rule" to be an improvement. Now he pretends these extra, unpaid duties--which most certainly extend beyond 60 hrs per week--are 'understood" to be part of the contract.

In paperwork alone there is well more than enough time to be spent outside of teaching to get teachers to 40 or 50 hours per week. Indeed, there seems a sotto voce current to the argumentation that having to be accountable (ie in the room with them, not in the bathroom, or at the coffee machine or anything other white collar workers take for granted) for 30+ students for 2-5 hour stretches at a time, and actually trying to teach them is really not work at all.

But putting that to the side, generally switching back and forth between arguments which are mutually contradictory means the interlocutor is not really interested in hashing out the issues, but rather grinding the axe he had with him when he came to the party.

In her speech, which will air on county Channel 16 at 5:30 p.m. Friday, Bulova also included caution about pay raises for county employees.

Removing the current freeze on county workers' salaries would raise the projected budget shortfall from $50 million to $100 million, she said, one that "we need to close."

Add the $70 million that the school is looking for and there you have it-$170 million HOLE.

You people need to get real.

Move to NJ and teach-see how those teachers are being talked to by Gov. Christie.

About time, a politician was honest.

Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> to real world observations--teachers aren't
> required to stay after early dismissal--generally
> if its early dimissial the school tells teachers
> to go home just to get them off the roads. The
> teacher was probably making a statement that they
> weren't going to abide by something cooked up by
> the local admin staff. But that said, they
> shouldn't announce it like that, and they
> certainly can't leave during the school day, even
> if truncated, without prior approval.
>
> Show them the door's subsequent comments do much
> to demonstrate my contention that his grievances
> are personal. For example, instead of arguing his
> point coherently, he makes statements like "I
> guess what I find most amazing and really
> enlightening from FFXU is the level of contempt
> with which teachers hold parents and students. I
> really makes me look at the teachers in a
> different light."
>
> Now many here may be arguing passionately for
> their livelihood and in defense of the
> contributions to society that they believe they
> make--but are they "contemptuous"? To the
> contrary, with a few exceptions perhaps, most
> contributors here have highlighted good relations
> with parents and students and have volunteered
> suggestions to make relations better.
>
> Indeed, Show them the door seems to be fixated on
> the "contemptuous" treatment he percieves himself
> to have received in a past incident, and then
> feigns that the encounters here have "really made
> look at teachers in a different light."
>
> Does anyone believe, based on his claim of
> longterm and specifically negative encounters with
> teachers that his encounters on this bulletin
> board have soured his opinion? What a highly
> disingenous argument that is. . . .
>
> Moreover, many have made the point here, as did
> the union representatives to the media (from both
> Loudon and Fairfax) that the Administration's
> piling on of additional duties in the midst of a
> salary frieze is the more objectionable part here.
> The comments to the FCPS School Board last week
> were exactly that.
>
> Yet Show them the door consistently invokes the
> FCPS as his shibboleth to charge good employees
> he's never met with the crimes visited upon him
> and his.
>
> Finally, he pretends to be all offended by the
> invocations of "Work to the rule" when above he
> made it clear that since he didn't consider
> teachers to be doing their job, he found "Work to
> the rule" to be an improvement. Now he pretends
> these extra, unpaid duties--which most certainly
> extend beyond 60 hrs per week--are 'understood" to
> be part of the contract.
>
> In paperwork alone there is well more than enough
> time to be spent outside of teaching to get
> teachers to 40 or 50 hours per week. Indeed, there
> seems a sotto voce current to the argumentation
> that having to be accountable (ie in the room with
> them, not in the bathroom, or at the coffee
> machine or anything other white collar workers
> take for granted) for 30+ students for 2-5 hour
> stretches at a time, and actually trying to teach
> them is really not work at all.
>
> But putting that to the side, generally switching
> back and forth between arguments which are
> mutually contradictory means the interlocutor is
> not really interested in hashing out the issues,
> but rather grinding the axe he had with him when
> he came to the party.


Again proof that teachers have a attitude that they are more important than the rest of the county workforce. I listened to that crap for 30 years as they got raises and the rest of the general county grunts didnt get squat during budget shortfalls. Maybe you werent employed here then or just continue with the attitude on entitlement.Try keeping the education legend alive but the current board isnt going to buy it this time. Be satisfied with your lot in life, be miserable every day , or leave. Either way I dont think anyone is going to beg anyone to stay

I just gave the case that teachers are "entitled" to the pay scale they signed up for. Beyond that, you get what you pay for. I think teachers will leave. If you think they stink, then you think that's a good thing. Course, if you really thought that, you probably wouldn't be bellyachin about it here.

from fcps website:

Wednesday, January 12, 2011

FCPS Awarded Two Awards for FY 2011 Budget Documents

Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) has received two awards for its publication of the FY 2011 Approved Budget. The Meritorious Budget Award was presented by the Association of School Business Officials International (ASBO) and the Distinguished Budget Presentation Award was presented by the Government Finance Officers Association of the United States and Canada (GFOA). FCPS has received these two awards every year since 1997.

The Meritorious Budget Award is conferred only to school systems that have met or exceeded the Meritorious Budget Award program criteria. A review team determined that FCPS’s budget document contains a financial section that is “very well documented and extensive in its presentation†and “provides a logical and easily followed explanation of the major accounting and budgeting practices of the district.â€

The Distinguished Budget Presentation Award is presented to organizations that meet nationally recognized guidelines that assess a budget as a policy document, financial plan, operations guide, and overall communications device. One reviewer noted “[FCPS’] tradition of excellence continues with an informative, professional document.†The award reflects the commitment of an organization’s governing body and staff to meet the highest principles of government budgeting.

Information about the FY 2011 awards will be included in the FY 2012 Approved Budget book, scheduled to be published on the FCPS web site in early August. All FCPS budget documents are accessible at www.fcps.edu.

They can only top that by winning this award for the 2012 budget:

Second Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding
Achievement in the Field of Excellence

Good luck to them wrestling it away from Homer Simpson.....

Worth a laugh wrote:

Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) has received two awards for its publication of the FY 2011 Approved Budget. The Meritorious Budget Award was presented by the Association of School Business Officials International (ASBO) and the Distinguished Budget Presentation Award was presented by the Government Finance Officers Association of the United States and Canada (GFOA). FCPS has received these two awards every year since 1997.

The Meritorious Budget Award is conferred only to school systems that have met or exceeded the Meritorious Budget Award program criteria. A review team determined that FCPS’s budget document contains a financial section that is “very well documented and extensive in its presentation†and “provides a logical and easily followed explanation of the major accounting and budgeting practices of the district.â€




If you go to the website for the Association of School Business Officials International (ASBO), you will find the following explanation of the award:


Certificate of Excellence in Financial Reporting Program
ASBO's Certificate of Excellence in Financial Reporting Program reviews the accounting practices and reporting procedures used by school districts in their Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports. Districts that earn the coveted Certificate of Excellence receive promotion from ASBO and enhanced credibility for the financial management of their school system. The COE program is sponsored by VALIC.



The COE program is sponsored by VALIC???? Huh?? VALIC is one of the options that the county picked as their employees' 403(b) provider (there are only 4 options now and VALIC is one of them). Hmmmmm. Can we conclude that there is more than a little back scratching going on here? VALIC makes a ton of money as one of the only options that the teachers have for their 403(b) contributions (this is EMPLOYEE money). Gosh, that sure was nice of them to give FCPS that award. I wonder what else they give FCPS and/or its employees who make those big decisions about who gets the employees' 403(b)money. Gee, was the SB involved with that decision?

Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> to real world observations--teachers aren't
> required to stay after early dismissal--generally

......blah...blah.....blah

I see you paid close attention in your Alinsky training. Attack, ridicule, personalize. Very transparent.

I am familiar with your reference to Alinsky. I read about him first in a series of article in the Wanderer, in which the links between the Campaign for Human Development and Alinsky's "community organization" were detailed, and also the covert intent behind Alinski-esque efforts to destroy "ethnic" neighborhoods (ie. Irish and Polish) was uncovered. My reading in these matters, though, is confined to Marxist thought more generally, in so far as it proceeds from Hegelian (ie. from Hegel) denial of essences, and then the Marxist attempt to supplant individual human nature with other concepts (the collective. . . )

My own argumentative "training" is from Scholastic (capital "S") philosophy (Aquinas, Bonaventure, Anselm).

Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My own argumentative "training" is from Scholastic
> (capital "S") philosophy (Aquinas, Bonaventure,
> Anselm).

Really? My kids bring their flyers home all the time from school! :)

I've got a great idea: while the teacher is helping your precious after school, why don't you go drive over to the baseball team and explain to the players that your precious is more important than they are, and that is why their coach is not at the game.


I can top that! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in September my daughter was struggling in
> science class. I talked with her teacher to see
> if we could meet after school for a conference.
>
> He said he had to leave at 3pm every day because
> he coached a baseball team. As he explained it,
> it was a high school age team.
>
> I guess if baseball is more important to him than
> helping my daughter in school, I would have to
> vote a BIG FAT NO for a pay raise for this clown.

hours real people work ():

You leave at 6:30am and get home at 7pm? Do your kids even know you? You sound like a crappy parent.

P.S. I leave at 8:30 and get home at 5, and I make nearly the same amount. Sounds like you have a crappy job.

For what it's worth, GMU professors haven't had raises (performance or cola) in 4 years*. I know of at least one prof that bailed and is now heading up a federal agency, and two others that are sniffing around defense contractors.

Meanwhile, county, federal, and industry workers have been getting raises (actually, this year my company gave us a one-time bonus instead of an annual raise).

In summary, if anyone has any reason to bitch, it should be the GMU professors. Keep in mind that they are doing more than just teaching -- in the sciences and engineering, they have to actively publish, and are increasingly being asked to bring money to the university (via grants and contracts) in order to receive tenure. I sometimes wonder why my brother bothers with it, and I think that he is starting to wonder, too.


* McDonnell gave them a one-time bonus this year of ~3%, finally breaking the cycle.

xyz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For what it's worth, GMU professors haven't had
> raises (performance or cola) in 4 years*. I know
> of at least one prof that bailed and is now
> heading up a federal agency, and two others that
> are sniffing around defense contractors.
>
> Meanwhile, county, federal, and industry workers
> have been getting raises (actually, this year my
> company gave us a one-time bonus instead of an
> annual raise).
>
> In summary, if anyone has any reason to bitch, it
> should be the GMU professors. Keep in mind that
> they are doing more than just teaching -- in the
> sciences and engineering, they have to actively
> publish, and are increasingly being asked to bring
> money to the university (via grants and contracts)
> in order to receive tenure. I sometimes wonder
> why my brother bothers with it, and I think that
> he is starting to wonder, too.
>
>
> * McDonnell gave them a one-time bonus this year
> of ~3%, finally breaking the cycle.

I agree with you to a point; nobody GETS to college, though, without high school. If I were a prof there, I would be looking at all those new buildings and asking why there was money for them. I went to Mason myself and love that it is increasing it's reputation, but if they lose their qulaity professors they will go back to square one.

I am 24 and not married. So I think making $155,000 is OK for right now. If and when I get married and have kids I hope to work less. BTW: I like my job so I do not think it is crappy.

abc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hours real people work ():
>
> You leave at 6:30am and get home at 7pm? Do your
> kids even know you? You sound like a crappy
> parent.
>
> P.S. I leave at 8:30 and get home at 5, and I make
> nearly the same amount. Sounds like you have a
> crappy job.


Arent you the lucky one, some people have to work longer hours, nights, weekends,and holidays to put food on the table and so douchbags like you have a comfortable and convienent life.

I am 24 and not married. So I think making $155,000 is OK for right now. If and when I get married and have kids I hope to work less. BTW: I like my job so I do not think it is crappy.


I really did something wrong. I hope you don't work for Verizon, because my bill is ridiculous with them and I hope it's not to pay you. You must be in charge of something awfully important and have skills that are truly hard to find. Please tell what they are.

Your make-believe job in 2nd Life doesn't count.

I keep hearing 60 hours a week discussed as a typical teacher work week. That would require a teacher to be working 12 hours per day 5 days a week, or 8 hours per day 7 days a week. I'm just not buying that.

I see a lot of timesheets, and it is very hard to get north of 50 - 55 hours per week, and that's people crashing on projects that have something due. Very few people work that kind of time consistently, week in and week out. More typical of someone who works very hard and puts in lots of time consistently is 45-48 hours.

The argument for teacher salary increases would be a lot easier to accept if the claims were not so overblown. If I were making the argument (and I'm not) it would be much better to steer away from all of these claims of extra hours and extra duties. Everyone has that. You will get no sympathy for that. A more rational argument is that the cost of living continues to increase. The problem there is that the county is $50M in the hole before factoring in a raise.

I say claw-back some money from the fire department and give it to the teachers as a raise.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/381124/382764.html#msg-382764

But, then again, that's what *they* want: the proletariat fighting amongst themselves (not that the firemen aren't vastly overpaid).

I knew this would be asked. I am a dentist and I work for someone else. I hope to one day own my own office. I went to college for eight years and I am paying off all my student loans myself.

You are 24 and you went to college for 8 years? You started at age 16 I presume and you just got the dentist job?

Please give the right explanation and yes, I pay my dentist too much also. The orthodontist is even more ridiculous. We love to hate you guys. We're never going to get health care costs under control. Lots of us are paying off college loans.

So you want good services but dont want to pay what they really cost. Let me guess, another teacher who was tricked and voted for Obama.

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OEIAS/magnet.htm#Anchor-Hunter-32995

How much does FCPS spend on bus transportation, etc. to these two schools?

Also, how much does FCPS spend on other parts of these special programs? Is the Kennedy Center program free to FCPS? Somehow, I doubt it.

I skipped a grade in high school and I will soon be 25. I don't care if you do not believe me. When Iam 35 I shold be pulling in around $400,000.

Dentists have the highest suicide rate of any professional in the U.S. We'll if you are still around to make it. Plus most are divorced because they are so boring, so figure half at best

Who would ever invite their dentist to their Christmas party?

It must be a lonely life.

Apparently they are just in it for the money.

http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/OEIAS/magnet.htm#Anchor-Hunter-32995

How much does FCPS spend on bus transportation, etc. to these two schools?

Also, how much does FCPS spend on other parts of these special programs? Is the Kennedy Center program free to FCPS? Somehow, I doubt it.



It says that students who apply should be on grade level or above in language arts and math and study skills. How can they tell if a preschooler qualifies under this criteria (they take kindergartners)?