After 15 years with kids in our school system, it is rare that I have come across an exceptional teacher-I can count them on one hand. A fair amount are downright incompetent. The same goes for principals-most are terrible managers and the staff dislikes them and has no respect for them.

So based on what I have seen, out of probably 7 principals and 100 teachers, only a handful deserve more money and recognition.

My experience is reinforced by the comments by the teachers on these boards. They all have the same attitude. Our kids are brats, parents are horrible, they work longer hours than the rest of us, their jobs are harder, etc, etc.

Most people I know work pretty hard-I am working today and tomorrow! I get three weeks paid vacation after 10 years of service and didn't take one week because I had too much work on my desk. We have a use it or lose it system.
I have had two modest raises (2%) in the past 10 years.

I am college educated, have a very demanding job and don't complain about it all the time. It beats not having a job. At any point, if I dislike my job, feel underappreciated or underpaid, I am free to look for a different job. What a country! Teachers should do the same.

As far as benefits-I pay about half the cost of my medical and fund a 401k. My employer throws in about $3000 in matching funds every year. Based on what I can afford to contribute, I won't be able to retire until 67 when hopefully, social security will be available. I have been working full time for 20 years so far.

I think I represent Joe non-government Worker who has the burden of saving for his retirement.

There are a surplus of teachers out there-FCPS probably hires one out of every ten applications they get. If it is such a horrible job with no pay then why do so many apply?? I am a firm believer of capitalism-go free market economy! If teachers are truly underpaid then they will move to other occupations and we will have a shortage and will have to raise the salaries. That is how it works.

To say that you "deserve" a raise because you work hard, or haven't had a raise or perform some valuable service to society that so many other people also do, is just plain silly.

huh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "And don't forget, these folks work 9 months a
> year, get every holiday off and 8 "work days"
> where their customers (the students) aren't around
> so they can....what? On top of that, school days
> for students last 6½ hours and you have 30
> minutes for lunch. Plus, they get snow days off or
> 1 or 2 hours off when it snows and schools close
> late/early or are completely closed, free parking
> at work parents helping out in their classrooms, a
> defined benefit pension from the county/state that
> allows them retire in their 50's with over 60% of
> their top salary and on and on. What a horrible
> life these teachers live NOT."
>
> Sounds like people should be beating down the door
> to get this miracle fantastic job! Where the heck
> are all these people?


huh,

Do you think there's a teacher shortage? There isn't. People are beating down the door to get these jobs. Look at the waiting list for FCPS teachers. It's in the hundreds every year.

Reality,

Your career / employer sounds depressing to me. It actually seems like an oppressed environment that you work in. While you believe in capitalism, what has made you stay on with just 2 pay raises in the past 10 years?

I would have jumped ship at the 2-3 year mark when I realized things were in the shape they're in - loads of work, not permitted to carry vacation time over, etc. To me, it sounds like your employer is abusing you - yet, you stay because "it's a job". Life - whether it be at work or at play, has got to be a bit more rewarding than you've made it sound. Ouch!

In The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please name me another "profession" that
> encourages their employees to take out legal
> insurance for the approximate cost of $50 per
> month? Yes, the school system encourages the
> employees to opt for this insurance in the event
> some angry, irate parent decides to sue the school
> system and the teacher. The school system doesn't
> have an "umbrella" policy to cover their teachers
> and employees.


Ever heard of medical malpractice insurance? Costs often exceed $100K a year.

Most of us who work for FCPS, got there through hard work and grit, pure determination. While happy to have a job, and cognizant that many are out of work, although our area thankfully has escaped most of the bump, it is time for a raise ASAP. Prices are going up, gas, groceries, essential items and such. Raise the pay please!!!!!!!!!

Medical Type Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ever heard of medical malpractice insurance?
> Costs often exceed $100K a year.

Yes, you are correct. Sorry, that I overlooked this profession. However, I suspect that the front office staff does not have to purchase this insurance. But, the main doctor - or surgeon does, correct? I've heard in some states that these premiums well exceed $100K - so much to the point that heart surgeons are actually considering career changes because they can no longer afford to pay these hefty premiums.

For that, we can thank the lawyers. I'll save those comments for the next lawyer thread that gets started here.

"To say that you "deserve" a raise because you work hard, or haven't had a raise or perform some valuable service to society that so many other people also do, is just plain silly."

Please define "just plain silly". Working hard, haven't had a raise for a while (with prices increasing) and doing a valuable service for society sound like pretty "not silly" arguments to me. Shouldn't people get paid if they do a job?

huh,

Do you think there's a teacher shortage? There isn't. People are beating down the door to get these jobs. Look at the waiting list for FCPS teachers. It's in the hundreds every yet.

Here are some jobs that are available right now (yes, Dec. 30 list) for those hundreds of people.

https://careers.fcps.edu/vl/Vacancy


The list gets pretty big in the spring and summer. Check back if you need a job.

Does anyone understand why you can buy a cotton t-shirt for $5 and a string of Christmas lights for $3?

Global wages, guys. Get used to it. Companies will continnue to ship jobs overseas to save money.No new jobs equals continued high unemployment.

India, Pakistan, China are filled with highly educated individuals who will work for a fraction of what is required here.

It is all a big fat wage PONZI scheme. Salaries keep going up, home price follow, people whine, "I can't afford to live here", politicians comply, raise wages more. And then, BOOM, it all comes crashing down.

Get used to the new world-isn't globalization wonderful? IBM does 75% of their revenue OUTSIDE the US. Do you think they will hire US workers? Don't think so.

Stop whining about your job and salary-it will only get worse.

Read the newspapers. States are broke. Illinois, New Jersey, California are hanging by a thread. What will they do? Raise taxes or shrink government. Salaries are 85% of municipal budgets.

Buckle in and save as much as you can. We are just beginning to see the changes.

Those jobs you posted are for those not right out of out of college. The FCPS is large and the list is not that long.

If teaching so was great as many of you think, FCPS would have a wait list.

Who do you want to teach YOUR kids. I say only the best should do. Teachers deserve a lot from parents and students. Our future depends on it.

I understand that we are in a recession. What I don't understand is people making stuff up about how bad teachers are in order to rationalize their decline in pay. If it's about the recession, say it. If a few teachers go to Taco Bell and all the others have to pay for those few who did that, that's just plain weird and infuriating for the others. Everyone needs to be "up front" about what is going on. If the rich bailed out people keep us scrapping around down here on the bottom arguing over pennies, maybe we won't notice how badly they have screwed us and how much money they are amassing. We are misplacing our anger. The longer we take to realize what has happened to us, the worse off we will be in the long run.

I don't understand your rant. Each one of us has choices we make in life. Please do not blame others for your mistakes. I suggest in the new year you account for yourself.

Capt. Terrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Josey Wales Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Sorry professor guess you missed it but who
> told
> > you to go into such a profession in the first
> > place? These teachers are akin to a soldier
> > complaining about snipers, IEDs and suicide
> > bombers and not getting paid enough. Except you
> > hear very few soliders ever complain why
> teachers
> > never stop complaiining.
> >
>
> So it's a safe bet that you've never served a day
> in your life, let alone even been around anyone in
> the military.

And you point is?

Captain Terrell in what the Salvation Army? Not that it matters but I have done my time. Sure soldiers bitch and moan but they keep it among themselves.
The difference is teachers never stop. Sure everyone would like a raise now and then and sometimes the economy kicks your ass instead.

Bottom line is if you expect to make the bucks and you choose to be a teacher then you made a big mistake in career choices. Dont whine every year when the money train passes you by.

no money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand that we are in a recession. What I
> don't understand is people making stuff up about
> how bad teachers are in order to rationalize their
> decline in pay. If it's about the recession, say
> it. If a few teachers go to Taco Bell and all the
> others have to pay for those few who did that,
> that's just plain weird and infuriating for the
> others. Everyone needs to be "up front" about
> what is going on. If the rich bailed out people
> keep us scrapping around down here on the bottom
> arguing over pennies, maybe we won't notice how
> badly they have screwed us and how much money they
> are amassing. We are misplacing our anger. The
> longer we take to realize what has happened to us,
> the worse off we will be in the long run.


Because it's open season on public employees nowadays

Rush, tea partiers, Reps in Congress are all whipping the morons into a frenzy.

Now, all of a sudden, a County worker mucking out storm sewers, so the morons' back yards don't flood, are fat cats. Unfuckingbelievable how stupid the average motherfucker is.

However, if, not when, IF, the economy ever recovers, and Rush moves on to something else, the morons will quickly forget all about lowly public workers.

I know it has been said before but why are teachers paid so low but the NFL and Hollywood are paid so high. We treat teachers like crap. We should all invest the best and brightest to teach our children.

I guess since teaching our kids seems dull and boring we do not pay attention.

Only the smart and wealthy will have smart kids. It is then the the top and bottom of our society will be so far apart. Average will not do.

What kind of kids are you raising?

Teachers are "low paid" because there's a huge supply of teachers. It means there's a lot of competition for the jobs available, so you don't have to pay as much.

When I was in college nobody I knew was told to go in education. Parents wanted us all to go into business. Now I am looking into education since it is a job with benefits, rewards with helping kids and stability.

I know now from looking at feedback I may as well just work in gov't. It will be boring but steady work.

I loved most of my teachers but I feel sorry for them now.

reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After 15 years with kids in our school system, it
> is rare that I have come across an exceptional
> teacher-I can count them on one hand. A fair
> amount are downright incompetent.


You get what you pay for.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

I have worked in both government and in education. Choose education! You will feel you are alive every day. I felt dead in government.

There may be a large supply of teachers, but there is not a large supply of great teachers. If you want to help kids and you really believe in your ability to do that, please go into teaching. We need you. You will never be rich, but you will have some of the best colleagues you can imagine. This is what I have found in teaching. I was talked out of it for years, but I'm glad I followed my heart and went for it.

You sound like the many teachers who teach at Clifton elementary. We love our school. Too bad many do not care about a great school that is working in Fairfax. And I must say we do it all with outdated(others words) school and no strings or fancy gym to boot. Go figure!

Maybe we should be the role model for a GREAT school in Fairfax. We can save taxpayer money and have success. Wow, that is thinking outside the box. We would not want that though since it goes against all that the SB wants.

reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After 15 years with kids in our school system, it
> is rare that I have come across an exceptional
> teacher-I can count them on one hand. A fair
> amount are downright incompetent. The same goes
> for principals-most are terrible managers and the
> staff dislikes them and has no respect for them.
>
> So based on what I have seen, out of probably 7
> principals and 100 teachers, only a handful
> deserve more money and recognition.
>
> My experience is reinforced by the comments by the
> teachers on these boards. They all have the same
> attitude. Our kids are brats, parents are
> horrible, they work longer hours than the rest of
> us, their jobs are harder, etc, etc.
>
> Most people I know work pretty hard-I am working
> today and tomorrow! I get three weeks paid
> vacation after 10 years of service and didn't take
> one week because I had too much work on my desk.
> We have a use it or lose it system.
> I have had two modest raises (2%) in the past 10
> years.
>
> I am college educated, have a very demanding job
> and don't complain about it all the time. It
> beats not having a job. At any point, if I dislike
> my job, feel underappreciated or underpaid, I am
> free to look for a different job. What a country!
> Teachers should do the same.
>
> As far as benefits-I pay about half the cost of my
> medical and fund a 401k. My employer throws in
> about $3000 in matching funds every year. Based
> on what I can afford to contribute, I won't be
> able to retire until 67 when hopefully, social
> security will be available. I have been working
> full time for 20 years so far.
>
> I think I represent Joe non-government Worker who
> has the burden of saving for his retirement.
>
> There are a surplus of teachers out there-FCPS
> probably hires one out of every ten applications
> they get. If it is such a horrible job with no pay
> then why do so many apply?? I am a firm believer
> of capitalism-go free market economy! If teachers
> are truly underpaid then they will move to other
> occupations and we will have a shortage and will
> have to raise the salaries. That is how it
> works.
>
> To say that you "deserve" a raise because you work
> hard, or haven't had a raise or perform some
> valuable service to society that so many other
> people also do, is just plain silly.


you're too much of a coward to quit your miserable job and take on something else that lets you 1) take your earned vacation 2) get a raise 3) contribute to your retirement - yet you fully expect teachers to take off and move on.

You're pathetic. You're that loser that tries to goad other people into doing things because you're too scared to do it yourself.

Enjoy your shitty life and shitty job.

Let's go back to 1922! FCPS started teachers at $750 a YEAR. But what the hell, they had the summer off!

If a teacher got pregnant, they had to resign.

Ahhh, the good old days.

Josey Wales Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Captain Terrell in what the Salvation Army? Not
> that it matters but I have done my time. Sure
> soldiers bitch and moan but they keep it among
> themselves.
> The difference is teachers never stop. Sure
> everyone would like a raise now and then and
> sometimes the economy kicks your ass instead.
>
> Bottom line is if you expect to make the bucks and
> you choose to be a teacher then you made a big
> mistake in career choices. Dont whine every year
> when the money train passes you by.

Captain Terrell was the antagonist in The Outlaw Josey Wales. Christ you're fucking dumb.

Soldiers bitch and moan and keep it to themselves? Really? I guess all those people missing limbs that were bitching about the conditions at Bethesda used telepthy to let the public and their sentators know that they were in deplorable conditions

You sound like my loser sister. Move on. move up. Learn something new in 2011. Stop being such a bitch. You only have one life. Not to sound like Oprah but you need to make yourself happy. You are in control.

Do it now or never! Sorry your parents were crap or whatever but you only have yourself to blame. Are you an adult??????

MOVE ON America!

Ourselves! Teach your own children and you can blame no one but yourself. We need to teach our kids not to depend on someone else, for anything.

what matters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If you believe that
> the public schools should be run as capitalist
> ventures, you are mistaken. If you believe that
> the armchair generals in private America should be
> running public schools, well, good luck.
>
> Schools with stable staffs who can be there to
> develop programs and be invested in the
> communities have been the backbone of education.
> Even the teachers who no longer have a student in
> their classroom will see the student in the
> hallways and talk to them or see them in clubs,
> the library, the computer room or other
> activities. Students often seek out teachers that
> they have connected with in the past when they
> have a problem or need advice. This makes a huge
> difference. The student sees the individual
> commitment of the teacher to the larger school
> community and they get a BIG message. When they
> see new teachers all the time, they get the
> message that there is no commitment to the bigger
> process and the larger community. No loyalty
> (which seems to be rampant in our society anyway).
> And loyalty is a two way street. If the
> community is there for the public sector, the
> public sector will be there for the community. Of
> course now we have SB members who believe that
> community schools make no difference and that
> there is some amorphous "greater good" (test
> scores?) that we are supposed to aspire to. I
> guess computers and statistics and money have
> taken over and people are no longer important.
> The kids are getting the picture.

Well I guess I struck a nerve. GOOD. The idea that teachers should be paid more because of the importance of their job and because of the incredible amount of BS they have to put up with is utopian nonsense.

Captain Terrell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Josey Wales Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Captain Terrell in what the Salvation Army? Not
> > that it matters but I have done my time. Sure
> > soldiers bitch and moan but they keep it among
> > themselves.
> > The difference is teachers never stop. Sure
> > everyone would like a raise now and then and
> > sometimes the economy kicks your ass instead.
> >
> > Bottom line is if you expect to make the bucks
> and
> > you choose to be a teacher then you made a big
> > mistake in career choices. Dont whine every
> year
> > when the money train passes you by.
>
> Captain Terrell was the antagonist in The Outlaw
> Josey Wales. Christ you're fucking dumb.
>
> Soldiers bitch and moan and keep it to themselves?
> Really? I guess all those people missing limbs
> that were bitching about the conditions at
> Bethesda used telepthy to let the public and their
> sentators know that they were in deplorable
> conditions

Your posts hinted claims at having been a military member yourself but of course you neglected to reveal your service that made you such an expert at military affairs so I can only go by your online name.

BTW there is a big difference between asking for more money and asking to be treated like a human being at Walter Reed.

Your back handed slap at those service members confirms my suspicion that you never served in uniform.

Let us try what is going on in NJ and several other states. The unions demand raises, they city says ok but we have X number of dollars, so then they lay off the least senior workers. In most of those cases the senior employees said show me the money and waved goodbye to the junior members.

Any thoughts??? because harder times are ahead according to the board

count your blessings ,not your money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Any thoughts??? because harder times are ahead
> according to the board

Well, if that's the case, then the school system will have to get way more creative with their budget system. As with many Government agencies, what remaining dollars are left at the end of the budget cycle are usually spent in frivolous ways. This ensures that the agency gets at least the same amount that it has in the previous year - versus, getting their budget cut. I think we're looking at a 2-way street here. If the teachers desire a raise, then the administration and the teachers will have to work on reducing the budget. Turn the heat in the classrooms down a little bit. I'm sure they could get pretty creative with their ideas.

However, if the school system is looking to give each teacher a $500 pay raise for the year, they might as well hold onto that money. I have a feeling that such a little amount will make much of a benefit when you take out all of the taxes. Though, it may be enough to cover part of their additional commuting expenses next year when gas is at $4.00 per gallon.

I have no problem for giving the teachers a pay raise, if they agree to work full day on Monday as the rest of the WORLD does.

The administration has to work on reducing the budget---not the teachers. The teachers have absolutely no power in the process. Their job is to teach. They see waste and ask why? They give suggestions with no response. And the administration keeps spending. The administrators protect themselves at every step and the SB is right in there with them because they have no cajones to suck it in and make the hard choices. If any of you saw the SB meeting last year where they spent gobs of time debating a field trip expense of 50K for kids to go to Wolf Trap, you would have been banging your head against the wall. It was unbelievable. I'm afraid there will be no real progress until the parents start to feel the pain---even then they don't make the right moves. Witness the Clifton and Southwest Study Boundary debacle. This is going to be a long road. Teacher pay is last on the list. Note that it was the first cut they made when the going got tough. Teachers know where they stand.

get rid of monday half day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no problem for giving the teachers a pay
> raise, if they agree to work full day on Monday as
> the rest of the WORLD does.

They DO work full days on Mondays. Even though my wife puts the kids on the bus 2 hours early, she doesn't leave until the regular time.

Teacher's suck. School admin sucks worse. It's like they take the most incompetent teachers and move them up into the front office to get them the hell out of the classroom.

How about you give me $10K per kid that you're spending on my 3 kids and let me send them to a private school where they'll get a real education without all the social engineering bullshit that FCPS and most other public school systems are "teaching".

Don't give them any raises. They all teach to the tests and someone fresh out of college can do that just as well as some lame-ass, jaded, saggy, old prima donna. Plus, the new teachers are much finer to look at on back to school nights and parent/teacher conferences. Just wondering, does FCPS have an hiring policy where you have to look like the ass of a shaved dog to get a job? Geez, what a bunch of ugly women. And get them away from the lunch lines as most are obese. No offense ;o)

huh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sounds like people should be beating down the door
> to get this miracle fantastic job! Where the heck
> are all these people?


There are 11 applicants for every opening! That's where they are.

Found on another posting on the Fx Underground......

Jack Dale seeks more $$$$ Posted by: listen up voters ()
Date: December 31, 2010 09:47AM


Fairfax schools chief seeks raises for employees; supervisors critical
Jack D. Dale, superintendent of Fairfax County public schools, has announced a plan to introduce significant pay raises for school employees in next year's budget - a proposal that drew immediate criticism from the county's Board of Supervisors.
-
By Kevin Sieff
Tuesday, December 28, 2010; 9:52 PM


[www.washingtonpost.com]

Great article in the WP pointing out that Dale wants the Board of Supervisors to give $$$$ millions more so "he can give teachers a raise." hmmmmmm

Read the blogging comments at:

[www.washingtonpost.com]


A lot of great blogging comments, including one from TakeBackOurSchools who points out the following:

Look no further than the FCPS Detailed Budgets if you want to see who is getting raises:

The Instructional Specialist for The Parent Resource Center earned $45,373 in FY 2008, yet earns $96,277 today.

In the Office of Community Outreach there have been HUGE raises while the teachers pay was frozen:

The Coordinator earned $58,331 in 2008, yet earns $118,995 today.

Business specialists in this department went from $50,670 in 2008 to $86,860.

Technical specialists earned $29,590 in 2008, now earn $82,275 today.

You can go thru just about every department and see massive raises-often doubling in the past three years.

Dale may say he has reduced headcount at Gatehouse, but he sure has handed out huge salary increases to his buds.

The BOS should say HELL NO to any transfer increase until Dale can explain these raises.

Voters, please raise your hand (or comment) if you have been so lucky to have received that type of increase in your salary.....

Dale has a lot of explaining to do before we vote to increase our taxes.

"There are 11 applicants for every opening! That's where they are."

You need to see the resumes before you know whether these are 11 people you want in front of your kid or not. You may be enlightened. The best are not coming in to this profession. The schools where teachers have been replaced are not seeing any miracle changes (in fact, nationwide, the statistics are either stagnant or decline on those schools).

The answer for people who really want a great education is going to be the vouchers. Fairfax County we can't escape it.

Since "No Child Left Behind" was passed ALL schools must teach to the test. Unless you send your kids to private school your kids are just taught to memorize data. America is and has been on a downward slide.



Says it all.

People who have a passion for teaching don't want to do the above. The 11 applicants just want a job, not a career. It's a paycheck---not a good one, but a paycheck to them. The best go for the money now because the rewards are gone. The feds tend to ruin a lot of things they put their hands on.

destruction of a once great system Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since "No Child Left Behind" was passed ALL
> schools must teach to the test. Unless you send
> your kids to private school your kids are just
> taught to memorize data. America is and has been
> on a downward slide.
>
>
>
> Says it all.
>
> People who have a passion for teaching don't want
> to do the above. The 11 applicants just want a
> job, not a career. It's a paycheck---not a good
> one, but a paycheck to them. The best go for the
> money now because the rewards are gone. The feds
> tend to ruin a lot of things they put their hands
> on.


If only our school systems didn't suck before 2001 when NCLB was passed, you point might be valid. But our school systems have sucked for years and NCLB tried to tie federal funding to performance. Image that. Sorry, not buying it.

destruction of a once great system Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since "No Child Left Behind" was passed ALL
> schools must teach to the test. Unless you send
> your kids to private school your kids are just
> taught to memorize data. America is and has been
> on a downward slide.

Every industry has standards and regulation (more and more these days). I don't buy the 'NCLB is killing us'. Before it was district curriculum, or maybe statewide, but there were always standards. Seems to me what teachers hate is the AYP standard (Adequate Yearly Progress), which means you actually have to show improvement year to year, and show that not just for the whole but for individual groups. So if your school system is 95% white, and you used to just write off the 5% minorities before because you could afford to do that, well, you can't do that anymore.

In The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please name me another "profession" that
> encourages their employees to take out legal
> insurance for the approximate cost of $50 per
> month?

Doctors, lawyers, engineers....it's pretty standard, actually.

Depending on the school and position, it is significantly more than 11 applicants for every opening. I was in on the hiring process for a new teacher this summer and we received over 60 resumes and conducted over 25 interviews for one spot.

true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "There are 11 applicants for every opening! That's
> where they are."
>
> You need to see the resumes before you know
> whether these are 11 people you want in front of
> your kid or not. You may be enlightened. The
> best are not coming in to this profession. The
> schools where teachers have been replaced are not
> seeing any miracle changes (in fact, nationwide,
> the statistics are either stagnant or decline on
> those schools).
>
> The answer for people who really want a great
> education is going to be the vouchers. Fairfax
> County we can't escape it.

NCLB is not "standards". Its a made-up metric that too many cooks had a hand in baking. However the resources now devoted to making sure that "No Child is Left Behind" are taken from the education of children who probably wouldn't be left behind. The reality is that some should be left behind, rather than hold the rest hostage to their inability or unwillingness. Public education was created in this country for the purposes of educating an polity to exercise their rights appropriately. What's destroying it is dumping every other "societal goal" onto it, and then expecting it to work. From childcare, to social work, to ADA, to keeping juvenile delinquents off the streets, to enfranchising the poor--all of these are dumped on education and then people are suprised it doesn't actually educate the children, and blame the teachers.

Jack Dale seeks more $$$$ Posted by: listen up voters ()
Date: December 31, 2010 09:47AM


Fairfax schools chief seeks raises for employees; supervisors critical
Jack D. Dale, superintendent of Fairfax County public schools, has announced a plan to introduce significant pay raises for school employees in next year's budget - a proposal that drew immediate criticism from the county's Board of Supervisors.
-
By Kevin Sieff
Tuesday, December 28, 2010; 9:52 PM


[www.washingtonpost.com]

Great article in the WP pointing out that Dale wants the Board of Supervisors to give $$$$ millions more so "he can give teachers a raise." hmmmmmm

Read the blogging comments at:

[www.washingtonpost.com]


A lot of great blogging comments, including one from TakeBackOurSchools who points out the following:

Look no further than the FCPS Detailed Budgets if you want to see who is getting raises:

The Instructional Specialist for The Parent Resource Center earned $45,373 in FY 2008, yet earns $96,277 today.

In the Office of Community Outreach there have been HUGE raises while the teachers pay was frozen:

The Coordinator earned $58,331 in 2008, yet earns $118,995 today.

Business specialists in this department went from $50,670 in 2008 to $86,860.

Technical specialists earned $29,590 in 2008, now earn $82,275 today.

You can go thru just about every department and see massive raises-often doubling in the past three years.

Dale may say he has reduced headcount at Gatehouse, but he sure has handed out huge salary increases to his buds.

The BOS should say HELL NO to any transfer increase until Dale can explain these raises.
**************************************
Voters, please raise your hand (or comment) if you have been so lucky to have received that type of increase in your salary.....

Dale has a lot of explaining to do before we vote to increase our taxes.

listen up voters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dale has a lot of explaining to do before we vote
> to increase our taxes.

So, by your logic, the regular teachers are also high earners and have more than doubled and nearly tripled their salaries over 2 years?

Look, this situation is no different than the military. We all know the guys (Colonels and various levels of Generals) make some great money working at the Pentagon. However, in 2011, the military is going to get its lowest raise in over 40 years. Will this affect those who work at the Pentagon making $150,000+ a year? Not hardly. Will it affect that junior enlisted person fighting in Iraq with 2 children and a family? Yes, it will.

Equate the regular teachers to those enlisted troops in Iraq. They're not the big earners. Then, look at the FCPS administration. People within those ranks have been "looked after" and "take care of" and are more along the lines as the Generals working at the Pentagon.

I'm sure the FCPS has plenty of recent pay studies on hand that they could quickly refer to. Utilize this information to see where you have your low-earning teachers. Then, get them the raises they need. Then, look at the high-earning administrative staff (that's probably making $25,000 over a similar private sector position) and tell them they're pay is frozen for 3 more years - until the next pay study is conducted.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Please tell me where the $70 million for the raises (COLAs/STEPS,etc) is coming from.

show me please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please tell me where the $70 million for the
> raises (COLAs/STEPS,etc) is coming from.

Cut other crap out of the budget. I'm sure they'd get at least $35 million from that alone.

Just curious....are the people that do not want to get a raise parents?

"Depending on the school and position, it is significantly more than 11 applicants for every opening. I was in on the hiring process for a new teacher this summer and we received over 60 resumes and conducted over 25 interviews for one spot"

Why did you conduct so many interviews? 25 seems excessive---that would take a long time and a lot of money to do. Did you go for second round interviews after the first run through with the 25? If every teaching positions requires 25 interviews, no wonder there are so many administrators. Is this how you justify your 12 month position?

What do you mean by "depending on the school?" Does this mean that the schools like McLean and Langley have a lot of candidates, but others do not?

I know that math and science positions are particularly hard to fill.

What does ADHD, peanut allergy have to do with inept parents? AND why does your wife have an issue with these kids, particularly those with peanut allergy? If she comes home and bitches about these kids, sounds like she's the one with the REAL problems. She DEFINITELY doesn't deserve a raise!

Dig Dug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious....are the people that do not want the teachers to
> get a raise parents?

Ugh...doing to many things at one time....

"Every industry has standards and regulation (more and more these days). I don't buy the 'NCLB is killing us'. Before it was district curriculum, or maybe statewide, but there were always standards. Seems to me what teachers hate is the AYP standard (Adequate Yearly Progress), which means you actually have to show improvement year to year, and show that not just for the whole but for individual groups. So if your school system is 95% white, and you used to just write off the 5% minorities before because you could afford to do that, well, you can't do that anymore."

Sure---AYP is a big problem because the expectation is that by 2014 there will be 100% pass rate for all groups (how dumb is that?). There is no test in the world that can do that (even write your name at the top). The elephant in the room is that teachers have loads of 150 kids or more (with 30 kids or more per class). We have a system that is putting more and more demands on teachers and then it is giving them more students per class and overall and it expects better results. This is the definition of lunacy. Something has to "give" somewhere. Oh, yes, and pay them less.

Also, it was a different day when districts wrote their own curriculum and standards. Far different. FCPS knows its clientele and can tailor curriculum for it. Now we get the state making us buy textbooks with errors (yes, we HAVE to buy what they tell us to buy with OUR money) and the feds making us spend buckets of money to compile stats and show that we are doing what they ask us to do. Do you really trust those people to have all the answers? The people in the driver seat are not being allowed to drive and the car has a lot of mechanical problems---it's very frustrating not to be able to do what you know is best for a kid because the feds and state have a plan that you must follow even though it makes no sense at all. And then you have to explain this to parents who become irate and blame the whole thing on you as the teacher. If you want teachers to be professionals, you must treat them as such. Under this new system, they are factory workers cranking out widgets made to federal specification. We all know that our kids are not all the same. And if you say that the answer is to get your kid an IEP or a 504 (which the teacher will tell you to do), okay then. Lots of parents are doing that, but it is really costing a lot of money because Special Education has a ton of federal guidelines and it costs a ton of money. Something like 15% of the students are on an IEP or 504. It gets you "accomodations" on the testing (which helps the district get the AYP stats that it needs). It can also get you out of some of the testing altogether. There are all kinds of tricks in the NCLB game---like 3 year averaging, etc. etc. They have all sorts of rules that are constantly changed so that the politicians can make it look like this is all working. The public believes a lot of it---at their peril. Politicians should not be in the business of education. Just saying. NCLB has spent a lot of money with very questionable results.

I could go on and on---if you saw some of the test items for some of the SOL's, I don't think you would be all so thrilled with the "standards". I do believe they got rid of the one asking what Stonewall Jackson's first name is.

If you want good teachers, get good principals and make them observe the teachers on a regular basis. Then get rid of the "bad ones". The tests should not be a substitute for the principal doing his/her job. The tests are really a poor substitute for real management. Anybody who has worked on a job where they "count" can attest to this. One questionable test given on one day does not tell a heck of a lot about what is going on in a classroom.

Just curious....are the people that do not want the teachers to
> get a raise parents?

Ugh...doing to many things at one time....

I'm a parent of a FCPS student, and despite my disappointment in some of the teachers, most under the circumstances have done a great job and deserve a pay raise. BUT what I can't stand is to hear a teacher complain about a child cursed with ADHD or a food allergy (which is the case in this thread). These children did NOT ask to be hyper or severely allergic and any teacher who complains lacks the compassion to be in the classroom, and for the sake of all kids should quit.

In the Know wrote:

listen up voters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dale has a lot of explaining to do before we vote
> to increase our taxes.

So, by your logic, the regular teachers are also high earners and have more than doubled and nearly tripled their salaries over 2 years?

Look, this situation is no different than the military. We all know the guys (Colonels and various levels of Generals) make some great money working at the Pentagon. However, in 2011, the military is going to get its lowest raise in over 40 years. Will this affect those who work at the Pentagon making $150,000+ a year? Not hardly. Will it affect that junior enlisted person fighting in Iraq with 2 children and a family? Yes, it will.

Equate the regular teachers to those enlisted troops in Iraq. They're not the big earners. Then, look at the FCPS administration. People within those ranks have been "looked after" and "take care of" and are more along the lines as the Generals working at the Pentagon.

I'm sure the FCPS has plenty of recent pay studies on hand that they could quickly refer to. Utilize this information to see where you have your low-earning teachers. Then, get them the raises they need. Then, look at the high-earning administrative staff (that's probably making $25,000 over a similar private sector position) and tell them they're pay is frozen for 3 more years - until the next pay study is conducted.

Seems pretty simple to me.





Simple to you, but impossible for this SB.

more on NCLB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now we get the state
> making us buy textbooks with errors (yes, we HAVE
> to buy what they tell us to buy with OUR money)

Those textbooks were reviewed and accepted by.....a commitee of VA teachers, who get paid to do the reviewing. Your fate lies not in your stars, but yourselves.

show me please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please tell me where the $70 million for the
> raises (COLAs/STEPS,etc) is coming from.


You might find $5-10 million in administrative savings if you butcher the cluster offices and instructional coaches, but not much more.

Headcount reduction is the only way to pay for these raises or raise the real estate tax. That's it.

Study labor economics, look at case studies where labor unions are faced with raises and layoffs. They will take a raise. They all assume it won't be them that is being laid off. Kinda funny because it has to be somebody.

Option two is stick it to the taxpayer/homeowner. Hey what's another $200 bucks tacked onto your property tax assessment. Sure you are paying $500 bucks a year for AP tests and sports fees for your kids to plug last year's budget debacle, but who cares?

We won't talk about the gigantic underfunded hole on the pension plan that the taxpayer will have to pay in a few years. The county tab is nearly $2 BILLION-the school system is probably about $1 billion.

Who's paying the THREE BILLION?

Not me-I am outta here. Florida bound. No state income tax and the voters say no on school bonds all the time. You guys pay the tab since you deserved all these raises.

wonder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why did you conduct so many interviews? 25 seems
> excessive---that would take a long time and a lot
> of money to do. Did you go for second round
> interviews after the first run through with the
> 25? If every teaching positions requires 25
> interviews, no wonder there are so many
> administrators. Is this how you justify your 12
> month position?

It's because they bring in substitute teachers so the interviewers can be out of class that day to conduct interviews. More interviews = less time teaching the little shits that every teacher on this board complains about.

"Those textbooks were reviewed and accepted by.....a commitee of VA teachers, who get paid to do the reviewing. Your fate lies not in your stars, but yourselves."

Teachers are supposed to be historians as well as teachers now? I think it was a bit negligent on the part of the state to use a committee of teachers to review historical facts. Don't you? Maybe there should be a test to see if every history teacher knows all the dates and facts in history before they are hired? This would be a long test that could take many weeks, but hey, why not? They only asked the teachers to check to see if the SOL standards were covered in the textbooks. They did not ask them to check all the facts in the book (that should be done by a historian committee---it would take the teachers a long time to do that). I also heard that they paid them by the hour (some measly amount as well).

What the heck does it matter if the history books are correct anyway? The point is to get the kids to learn the stuff and test them---doesn't matter what the stuff is---just matters that the kids can memorize it. Teachers should have gotten this type of education as well so that they can review textbooks to make extra money. Memorization is the skill of the future work world. Very important skill.

"Not me-I am outta here. Florida bound. No state income tax and the voters say no on school bonds all the time. You guys pay the tab since you deserved all these raises."


Ahem. I think Florida has some BIG pension problems as well. If you want to escape the coming fiscal problems, I would suggest buying an island and setting up your own country. Good luck.

Oh, and Florida has BIG crime problems---maybe it's all those uneducated people and low paid police force. Get some locks.

It's because they bring in substitute teachers so the interviewers can be out of class that day to conduct interviews. More interviews = less time teaching the little shits that every teacher on this board complains about.

The administration ultimately is the one who hires teachers---not the teachers. The administrator would have to put the teacher on administrative leave in order to get a substitute (b/c that's not sick leave they're using). All of the interviews I was involved with as a teacher were either after school or on my prep period. Not once was a substitute involved because the principal would have to justify the sub pay for that. I gave up my own time to go to those interviews. My principal didn't even have to let me be there---he did it because he wanted my input---which I very much appreciated. It matters a lot to the other teachers who is hired!

taxpayers pick up the tab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We won't talk about the gigantic underfunded hole
> on the pension plan that the taxpayer will have to
> pay in a few years. The county tab is nearly $2
> BILLION-the school system is probably about $1
> billion.
>
> Who's paying the THREE BILLION?


Well, it would sure as fuck help if our Governor would stop looting VRS so he can brag that he balanced the budget without raising taxes.

He stole $621 million last year (there's a fifth of $3B right there). I wonder how much he'll grab from VRS this year?

Oh, but not to worry, the Governor says he'll start paying VRS the money back in 2013. Mmmm, when does his term expire, it wouldn't be 2013, would it?

doesn't work that way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's because they bring in substitute teachers so
> the interviewers can be out of class that day to
> conduct interviews. More interviews = less time
> teaching the little shits that every teacher on
> this board complains about.
>
> The administration ultimately is the one who hires
> teachers---not the teachers. The administrator
> would have to put the teacher on administrative
> leave in order to get a substitute (b/c that's not
> sick leave they're using). All of the interviews
> I was involved with as a teacher were either after
> school or on my prep period. Not once was a
> substitute involved because the principal would
> have to justify the sub pay for that. I gave up
> my own time to go to those interviews. My
> principal didn't even have to let me be there---he
> did it because he wanted my input---which I very
> much appreciated. It matters a lot to the other
> teachers who is hired!


Not true in my experience. I get notes home saying 'There will be a substitute today as I am interviewing.....' Who should I believe - you or my lying eyes?

Is there a "Professional Learning and Accountability" department for state employees (including the governor)? I think they need some "training".

I guess only the teachers have to be held accountable since they are the ones who are really ruining this state.

yeah, right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers are supposed to be historians as well as
> teachers now? I think it was a bit negligent on
> the part of the state to use a committee of
> teachers to review historical facts. Don't you?
>
I think a history teacher that is paid to review history books should be accountable for his/her work. Crazy, huh?

Not true in my experience. I get notes home saying 'There will be a substitute today as I am interviewing.....' Who should I believe - you or my lying eyes?

What school is this?


Are you sure that the teacher was not up at Gatehouse interviewing for a position in Central Office (to leave his/her own job)?

Teachers are supposed to be historians as well as
> teachers now? I think it was a bit negligent on
> the part of the state to use a committee of
> teachers to review historical facts. Don't you?
>
I think a history teacher that is paid to review history books should be accountable for his/her work. Crazy, huh?



Not if the instructions were to check for SOL standards in the books. Which is what they were told to do. They follow directions.

If they were to check every fact, they would have to sit at a computer for weeks. I think there were less than 5 of them (I read 3). The state was only going to pay them for a short time (hours). I don't think they even had time to read the dang book.

The reviewers were probably paid by the textbook company. The state has no money right now and taxpayers don't really care if the books are correct anyway. Those were probably the cheaper books.

get the story Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they were to check every fact, they would have
> to sit at a computer for weeks. I think there
> were less than 5 of them (I read 3). The state
> was only going to pay them for a short time
> (hours). I don't think they even had time to read
> the dang book.

I would like to think that after 3 (or 5) HISTORY TEACHERS read a book that had the wrong YEAR for the start of WWI, at least one of them would have caught it. You are correct, it would take an average person weeks to fact check an entire book. But I would expect that a history teacher would have a somewhat better grasp of history than the average person walking down the street, and be able to catch many errors just from their supposed mastery of the topic. I would also expect the teachers selected to be reviewers would be among the very best, most experienced teachers in the state.

But now I know from the posters above they just do as their told and get paid by the hour. Not my definition of a professional, a word that gets thrown around here quite a bit.

Is there anything that teachers take accountability for? No matter the topic, it's someone elses fault.

teachers in FCPS do not get subs to help with interviewing. If one did, the adminstrator probably gave it to them special. its another thing you are expected to do.

If the teachers do get this raise that we can't afford how much does that cost the pension down the road. The pension is based on an average of the last three year's salary, so if everyone gets this raise what is the future cost to the pension liability? $100 million? more?

When will it end?

Why the *&%$*& should I pay to fund someone alse's retirement when I can't even afford my own???!!!

The selfishness and gimme gimme attitude of these public employees is galling.

Pay for your own retirement and then MAYBE we can talk about a raise.

Pay for a reasonable amount of your health care premiums and maybe be can discuss a COLA.

The well is dry, sweetie.

Ask the GM workers how all that collective bargaining and demand for more and more worked out for them.

"Pay for your own retirement and then MAYBE we can talk about a raise.

Pay for a reasonable amount of your health care premiums and maybe be can discuss a COLA."

They already do pay for a reasonable amount of the health care premiums. I don't know what your definition of reasonable is---but is $400 a month enough? That's 4000 per year.

Teachers probably will go back to funding their own retirements---the county couldn't fund them (along with the police, etc.) last year because the state declared a "pension holiday". If they declare many more of those, you will be getting off as a taxpayer in future years and I'm sure the teachers pensions will be lowered (what else can happen?).

Don't worry---you are safe from future teacher raises---of that I am 95% sure. What you have to worry about is a declining standard of life here. All public facilities (libraries, police and fire, schools, roads, ambulance, rec centers, parks) are not going to be what you have come to expect. There will be more fees for these services---school is already wrought with fees (PE, parking, sports, AP/IB, class fees) and look for the same in all other areas---tolls, ambulance fees, library fees, taxes on your water/sewer, etc.). This is the pain of being in a declining economy and a country on the down (it happened to the Romans too). We will survive---it just won't be what you have been used to. You are going to have less money too---even if your taxes do not go up. Competing with the rest of the world is not fun, but they weren't having too much fun before being poor. It is going to get harder to compete as we invest less in our schools and the cycle of down will continue. You might feel better knowing that you are not paying as much in taxes,but I would start saving to send your grandchildren to private schools (if you have any hope of them having a "professional" job). Also, do not count on your children to pay for your nursing home care. Start saving.
And going to Florida is not going to help a whole bunch.

Let's start with some federal/state government salaries to get some perspective, then we will look at the school system salaries.

President Obama $400,000
VP Biden $230,700
Speaker Pelosi $223,500
Chief Justice Roberts $223,500
VA Governor McDonnell $166,250
US Senator $174,000

Ok, here we go.....


Jack Dale/Sup $292,469
Rich Moniuszko/Asst Sup $209,358
Dean Tistadt/Facilities $204,706
Maribeth Luftglass/Chiel Information Officer $164,639
Head of HR Dept $164,639
Peter Noonan/Instructional Services $158,246
Cluster Superintendents (8 of them) $124,939-$164,639
Cluster Directors (8 of them) $118,995-$128,731

You guys are smoking some really bad weed if you think these people deserve to be paid more than a senator or governor.

They are average people-some are pretty darn incompetent-that in no way deserve what they are making.

On top of these absurd salaries we will pay them, thru their taxpayer funded pension, HALF of their salaries FOR LIFE in annual income.

So a guy like Tistadt checks out next year, he collects $100k per year for as long as he lives and his surviving spouse gets a benefit as well.

We are talking MILLIONS guys, AFTER they leave.

Do the bloody math. There are 20,000 county school employees.

I REFUSE to continue to pay this crap. It is an outrage.

Be a saver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There will be more fees for these
> services---school is already wrought with fees
> (PE, parking, sports, AP/IB, class fees)

And there should be. School should be school - not a full service activity center. After the basic academic program is provided, anything else should be self supporting and fee based.

Why should a child who chooses band or football as an activity get it (mostly) paid for, while a child that wants to do karate or some church-based activity have to pay for it? Parents should pay for the full cost of activities - no more subsidies. I have kids that would benefit from getting sports/activities paid for but it has just gotten out of control. Make everyone pay for their activities and we'll see which ones actually survive.

There are all sorts of club activities for kids completely independent of the schools that do just fine.

I agree. This is an outrage. But these are not the teachers. The hardest working people who have the most direct impact in the system get the least. I love it when people like Dale say they are in this for the kids. Right.

People should also be outraged by how much some of the CEO's of big corporations make. Nobody is worth hundreds of millions of dollars per year. Sorry, but there is only so much time in a day and why are they worth so much? Capitalism is destroying itself---it's not Obama doing it.

Special education teacher charged with heroin possession
December 31, 2010 - 5:05am


SILVER SPRING, Md. - A Montgomery County special education teacher faces charges of heroin possession after police discovered she had drugs in her possession during a traffic stop Tuesday night.
Rebecca Amick, 25, of North Potomac was a passenger in a car stopped by Montgomery County Police. Police stopped the car for a speeding violation. The driver was going 40 mph in a 30-mph zone near the intersection of Georgia Avenue and Thayer Avenue in Silver Spring.

Police say the driver and two passengers, who appeared nervous, agreed to a search of the vehicle and to personal searches during the 7:45 p.m. traffic stop.

Police say Amick, a teacher at Woodlin Elementary School in Silver Spring, had in her possession nine bags of heroin. Each of the bags contained one-tenth of a gram of heroin. The drugs had a street value of $90.

Amick, who was in the back seat of the vehicle, was charged with possession and released on personal recognizance.

Police say the search turned up two syringes and a spoon.

Another passenger, 25-year-old Faisal Abdullah of Potomac, was charged with heroin possession. Polcie say he had the drug paraphernalia and four bags partially full of heroin.

Police say Abdullah also was wanted for two counts of prescription fraud. He was charged and released on $15,000 bond.

The driver of the car was cited for speeding. He was not named by police.

The school system has placed Amick on administrative leave with pay. No further action will be taken until the school and police finish their investigations.

(Copyright 2010 by WTOP. All rights reserved.)

See, I told you so. This is what our teachers will have to do-sell heroin-to make ends meet.

This teacher NEVER would have dealt drugs if she was paid a decent wage.

It's all the taxpayers fault.

None of the salaries of the "big wheels" should be a surprise. This has been going on for years here. Remember when they built the government center with its "Taj Mahal" trappings? Gatehouse 1 and the bid for Gatehouse 2? Fairfax likes big and showy. They don't like to pay teachers because that doesn't get them the "glitz" factor that they like. They love the "star quality" of paying their leaders the megabucks. They want that "aura" around them that only money can buy. Teachers---well, they are just the grunts.

When the economy improves, none of the taxpayers will notice this stuff anymore. It's kind of a pain for them that you are all noticing now---but not too much because they control all of it.

"This teacher NEVER would have dealt drugs if she was paid a decent wage.

It's all the taxpayers fault."

Thanks for the humor. Maybe people have to be on drugs to be teachers. Ha. ha. Love it.

Some of them seem to be getting things other than money like that teacher in Centreville who was having sex with his students. I guess that's another form of payment.

big pay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> None of the salaries of the "big wheels" should be
> a surprise. This has been going on for years
> here. Remember when they built the government
> center with its "Taj Mahal" trappings? Gatehouse
> 1 and the bid for Gatehouse 2? Fairfax likes big
> and showy. They don't like to pay teachers
> because that doesn't get them the "glitz" factor
> that they like. They love the "star quality" of
> paying their leaders the megabucks. They want
> that "aura" around them that only money can buy.
> Teachers---well, they are just the grunts.
>
> When the economy improves, none of the taxpayers
> will notice this stuff anymore. It's kind of a
> pain for them that you are all noticing now---but
> not too much because they control all of it.

You call 300 grand (Dale's pay) "megabucks"? FCPS is a $2B a year operation.

Check out what the CEOs of similarly size companies make. 300 grand wouldn't pay the lease on the company jet.

"You call 300 grand (Dale's pay) "megabucks"? FCPS is a $2B a year operation.

Check out what the CEOs of similarly size companies make. 300 grand wouldn't pay the lease on the company jet."


Well, if that is your accounting, Obama should be making a heck of a lot more because his "operation" is a bit more than $2B.

If you were to compare all things public to all things private, you would come up with some huge discrepancies. Given that most teachers are in charge of multiple individuals under them and they have about a $400,000 operation under their control, don't you think they might get paid a bit more? For that matter, many people in the military oversee a whole lot of money, but don't get paid like CEO's. DALE IS A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE and if he wants to earn megabucks he should go into the private sector. If we have to pay all public employees based on how much money they oversee, we are in BIG trouble. The amount of money is not the issue, it's the JOB!

Does this mean that the head of the BOS makes about $600K (because the total county budget is $4B?

My house isn't worth as much as a year of these guys' salaries.

salaries gone wild Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's start with some federal/state government
> salaries to get some perspective, then we will
> look at the school system salaries.
>
> President Obama $400,000
> VP Biden $230,700
> Speaker Pelosi $223,500
> Chief Justice Roberts $223,500
> VA Governor McDonnell $166,250
> US Senator $174,000
>
> Ok, here we go.....
>
>
> Jack Dale/Sup $292,469
> Rich Moniuszko/Asst Sup $209,358
> Dean Tistadt/Facilities $204,706
> Maribeth Luftglass/Chiel Information Officer
> $164,639
> Head of HR Dept $164,639
> Peter Noonan/Instructional Services $158,246
> Cluster Superintendents (8 of them)
> $124,939-$164,639
> Cluster Directors (8 of them) $118,995-$128,731
>
> You guys are smoking some really bad weed if you
> think these people deserve to be paid more than a
> senator or governor.
>
> They are average people-some are pretty darn
> incompetent-that in no way deserve what they are
> making.
>
> On top of these absurd salaries we will pay them,
> thru their taxpayer funded pension, HALF of their
> salaries FOR LIFE in annual income.
>
> So a guy like Tistadt checks out next year, he
> collects $100k per year for as long as he lives
> and his surviving spouse gets a benefit as well.
>
> We are talking MILLIONS guys, AFTER they leave.
>
> Do the bloody math. There are 20,000 county school
> employees.
>
> I REFUSE to continue to pay this crap. It is an
> outrage.


the people on this list dont deserve shit. it's the ones in the class room that should get it. these clowns should exclude themselves...jack ass making more than the vp...c'mon!

Be a saver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Pay for your own retirement and then MAYBE we can
> talk about a raise.
>
> Pay for a reasonable amount of your health care
> premiums and maybe be can discuss a COLA."
>
> They already do pay for a reasonable amount of the
> health care premiums. I don't know what your
> definition of reasonable is---but is $400 a month
> enough? That's 4000 per year.
>
> Teachers probably will go back to funding their
> own retirements---the county couldn't fund them
> (along with the police, etc.) last year because
> the state declared a "pension holiday". If they
> declare many more of those, you will be getting
> off as a taxpayer in future years and I'm sure the
> teachers pensions will be lowered (what else can
> happen?).
>
> Don't worry---you are safe from future teacher
> raises---of that I am 95% sure. What you have to
> worry about is a declining standard of life here.
> All public facilities (libraries, police and fire,
> schools, roads, ambulance, rec centers, parks) are
> not going to be what you have come to expect.
> There will be more fees for these
> services---school is already wrought with fees
> (PE, parking, sports, AP/IB, class fees) and look
> for the same in all other areas---tolls, ambulance
> fees, library fees, taxes on your water/sewer,
> etc.). This is the pain of being in a declining
> economy and a country on the down (it happened to
> the Romans too). We will survive---it just won't
> be what you have been used to. You are going to
> have less money too---even if your taxes do not go
> up. Competing with the rest of the world is not
> fun, but they weren't having too much fun before
> being poor. It is going to get harder to compete
> as we invest less in our schools and the cycle of
> down will continue. You might feel better knowing
> that you are not paying as much in taxes,but I
> would start saving to send your grandchildren to
> private schools (if you have any hope of them
> having a "professional" job). Also, do not count
> on your children to pay for your nursing home
> care. Start saving.
> And going to Florida is not going to help a whole
> bunch.


I completely agree, but I fear your predictions are too optimistic. We are definitely on a race to the bottom. You have to travel around this once great country to see how bad it really is. Uncle Sam's printing presses are shielding this area from the worst of it (for now).

I see a return to feudalism. Individuals, no matter how well armed, will not stand a chance. People who are better armed are going to come through their doors and take their shit.

All great civilizations throughout history have died eventually, and I think our time is about up.

Happy New Year!

Come on! You can't compare politicians' salaries to that of working people. Political office is a license to steal.

Why do you think people spend millions to be elected to a $174K job? They know they'll get it back many times over, that's why.

Anon-user 'indeed' wrote :
---------------------------------------
> "I see a return to feudalism.
> Individuals, no matter how well armed,
> will not stand a chance. People who are
> better armed are going to come through
> their doors and take their shit."

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "FEUDALISM" IN A WORLD WITH BOOBY TRAPS
AND MOTION DETECTING-LASER SIGHTED MACHINE GUNS AND ROBOTS.

Jack Dale did not spend millions of dollars to get his job He is not elected. He is a public employee. He is overpaid. Simple.

I would be happy to do Jack Dale's job for half of what he is getting. Okay, I'm not as handsome as he is, but I bet I think I would really take the job seriously and not be laughing like a baboon at the SB meetings. I am an honest person and not trying to steal. Should I send in my resume to compete with the other 11?

Why do you defend Dale? Are you on his staff? Are you worried that once his salary is reduced, yours may be too??

"Anon-user 'indeed' wrote :
---------------------------------------
> "I see a return to feudalism.
> Individuals, no matter how well armed,
> will not stand a chance. People who are
> better armed are going to come through
> their doors and take their shit."

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "FEUDALISM" IN A WORLD WITH BOOBY TRAPS
AND MOTION DETECTING-LASER SIGHTED MACHINE GUNS AND ROBOTS."



You need to stop your video game habits---BOTH OF YOU!

*FACTS* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anon-user 'indeed' wrote :
> ---------------------------------------
> > "I see a return to feudalism.
> > Individuals, no matter how well armed,
> > will not stand a chance. People who are
> > better armed are going to come through
> > their doors and take their shit."
>
> THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "FEUDALISM" IN A WORLD
> WITH BOOBY TRAPS
> AND MOTION DETECTING-LASER SIGHTED MACHINE GUNS
> AND ROBOTS.

Then you don't know anything about feudalism, which is hardly surprising.

Feudal barons developed sophisticated defenses against the weaponry/foes of the day. Have you ever heard of a moat? How about a trebuchet? I didn't think so, you stupid motherfucker.

"Come on! You can't compare politicians' salaries to that of working people. Political office is a license to steal.

Why do you think people spend millions to be elected to a $174K job? They know they'll get it back many times over, that's why."



Chief Justice Robers paid millions to get his job? He was elected? He's going to get his salary back many times over? Gosh, I hope that's not why he took the job.

Do you still think Dale is not overpaid?

to say Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack Dale did not spend millions of dollars to get
> his job He is not elected. He is a public
> employee. He is overpaid. Simple.
>
> I would be happy to do Jack Dale's job for half of
> what he is getting. Okay, I'm not as handsome as
> he is, but I bet I think I would really take the
> job seriously and not be laughing like a baboon at
> the SB meetings. I am an honest person and not
> trying to steal. Should I send in my resume to
> compete with the other 11?
>
> Why do you defend Dale? Are you on his staff?
> Are you worried that once his salary is reduced,
> yours may be too??

You completely missed the point, moron. Further discussion would be futile.

BTW, "salaries" are for losers. My income is from company profits, commercial rental properties, dividends, interest, etc. I haven't worked for the man since I was a kid (way before you were born).

You completely missed the point, moron. Further discussion would be futile.

BTW, "salaries" are for losers. My income is from company profits, commercial rental properties, dividends, interest, etc. I haven't worked for the man since I was a kid (way before you were born).

That explains why we don't understand each other. Thanks. You don't know what work is. You are pretty arrogant to call people who work losers. You would not have any interest, dividends or rental property if the losers did not work for salaries.

Think more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Come on! You can't compare politicians' salaries
> to that of working people. Political office is a
> license to steal.
>
> Why do you think people spend millions to be
> elected to a $174K job? They know they'll get it
> back many times over, that's why."
>
>
>
> Chief Justice Robers paid millions to get his job?
> He was elected? He's going to get his salary
> back many times over? Gosh, I hope that's not why
> he took the job.
>
> Do you still think Dale is not overpaid?

I was referring to what a US Senator makes, douchebag. I am aware that Supreme Court justices are appointed.

And no, I don't think Dale is overpaid. He is paid what Superintendants of large school systems are paid in this country. In fact, he is paid considerably less than some.

These jobs are filled by nationwide searches and that's what the top talent commands.

The fact that you hate this particular dude doesn't make a fucking bit of difference.

BTW, "salaries" are for losers. My income is from company profits, commercial rental properties, dividends, interest, etc. I haven't worked for the man since I was a kid (way before you were born).

America did not become great by the efforts of people like you. You wouldn't call us losers if you were standing in front of us. Hide behind your "walls of glory" and keep your nose in the air when you walk past us so we don't have to see your face. It's incredible ugliness disgusts us.

I was referring to what a US Senator makes, douchebag. I am aware that Supreme Court justices are appointed.


Make yourself clear on your posts. You did not say who you were referring to on the previous list. Name calling is a pretty low form of argument, but I'll excuse you once. I'm sort of doubting that you have never worked since you were a kid since you use words like "fucking". I'm thinking you are really one of Dale's dudes. Or maybe you are having your New Year's scotch.

In New Jersey they got tough. This probably made the governor more popular. I don't think there are two many rich arrogant guys' votes to go after.



http://www.thegovmonitor.com/world_news/united_states/superintendent-pay-cap-means-real-savings-for-new-jersey-taxpayers-43767.html

true Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "There are 11 applicants for every opening! That's
> where they are."
>
> You need to see the resumes before you know
> whether these are 11 people you want in front of
> your kid or not. You may be enlightened. The
> best are not coming in to this profession. The
> schools where teachers have been replaced are not
> seeing any miracle changes (in fact, nationwide,
> the statistics are either stagnant or decline on
> those schools).
>
> The answer for people who really want a great
> education is going to be the vouchers. Fairfax
> County we can't escape it.


A few of the subs they use look and act like homeless people, we had one living in his car and stunk. I dont think the county is too picky about alot of things.

no nirvana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Not me-I am outta here. Florida bound. No state
> income tax and the voters say no on school bonds
> all the time. You guys pay the tab since you
> deserved all these raises."
>
>
> Ahem. I think Florida has some BIG pension
> problems as well. If you want to escape the
> coming fiscal problems, I would suggest buying an
> island and setting up your own country. Good
> luck.
>
> Oh, and Florida has BIG crime problems---maybe
> it's all those uneducated people and low paid
> police force. Get some locks.

Sure, Florida might not have any income taxes - and, the school bonds get voted down quickly. However, this does not mean you're out of the woods. With Florida being "hurricane central", your yearly home insurance premium that would cost about $800 in Northern Virginia, will probably land in the $3,000 range in Florida. The $500 deductible you have on your home here if any damage were to occur? Well, in Florida, if your home gets hit by a hurricane and you lose some shingles, siding and windows, the deductible is about 15% of the value of your home.

While you may not be paying money towards taxes and the school system, you'll be writing plenty of other checks out for your living in Florida. Please, by all means, do enjoy it!

Be a saver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Pay for your own retirement and then MAYBE we can
> talk about a raise.
>
> Pay for a reasonable amount of your health care
> premiums and maybe be can discuss a COLA."
>
> They already do pay for a reasonable amount of the
> health care premiums. I don't know what your
> definition of reasonable is---but is $400 a month
> enough? That's 4000 per year.
>
> Teachers probably will go back to funding their
> own retirements---the county couldn't fund them
> (along with the police, etc.) last year because
> the state declared a "pension holiday". If they
> declare many more of those, you will be getting
> off as a taxpayer in future years and I'm sure the
> teachers pensions will be lowered (what else can
> happen?).
>
> Don't worry---you are safe from future teacher
> raises---of that I am 95% sure. What you have to
> worry about is a declining standard of life here.
> All public facilities (libraries, police and fire,
> schools, roads, ambulance, rec centers, parks) are
> not going to be what you have come to expect.
> There will be more fees for these
> services---school is already wrought with fees
> (PE, parking, sports, AP/IB, class fees) and look
> for the same in all other areas---tolls, ambulance
> fees, library fees, taxes on your water/sewer,
> etc.). This is the pain of being in a declining
> economy and a country on the down (it happened to
> the Romans too). We will survive---it just won't
> be what you have been used to. You are going to
> have less money too---even if your taxes do not go
> up. Competing with the rest of the world is not
> fun, but they weren't having too much fun before
> being poor. It is going to get harder to compete
> as we invest less in our schools and the cycle of
> down will continue. You might feel better knowing
> that you are not paying as much in taxes,but I
> would start saving to send your grandchildren to
> private schools (if you have any hope of them
> having a "professional" job). Also, do not count
> on your children to pay for your nursing home
> care. Start saving.
> And going to Florida is not going to help a whole
> bunch.

The last thing Fairfax County needs is for a major degradation of these services. Why, you ask? Well, it's the high standards that Fairfax County was known for that has been a great recruiter for many businesses that want to relocate to such an area. More businesses = a better job base = more tax revenues. However, if these services slip, Fairfax County could easily be out of the running for future considerations by these companies. Then, you have problems - much bigger ones than coming up with $70 million to fund some teacher pay raises.

"The last thing Fairfax County needs is for a major degradation of these services. Why, you ask? Well, it's the high standards that Fairfax County was known for that has been a great recruiter for many businesses that want to relocate to such an area. More businesses = a better job base = more tax revenues. However, if these services slip, Fairfax County could easily be out of the running for future considerations by these companies. Then, you have problems - much bigger ones than coming up with $70 million to fund some teacher pay raises."


If Fairfax County is having problems, think about what other areas of the country are going through. We will still look like the garden spot. It's all relative---everywhere is going down---this is a nationwide recession. Businesses will relocate to the cheapest area that has the best airport access and transportation (roads). That area might be overseas.

The schools and the federal budgets don't have the money because they have to pay for the people who do not want to work or the illegal kids that are coming in from other countries. The middle class is supporting everyone. Many of the parents of the kids on free and reduce lunch know that they lie when they fill out the application. Knowing their kid gets free and reduced lunch also qualifies them form other free services. If the country, county and schools don't start taking care of their citizens we will really start having problems. People need to start being adults and take care of their own children