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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: 246 kids over max ()
Date: January 09, 2012 03:21PM

The old Clifton ES could take in 246 kids. Maybe make it into the Clifton middle school.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 09, 2012 04:26PM

at max Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robinson is at max:
>
> Current Enrollment
> 2719 HS
> 1142 MS
>
> Building Capacity
> 2561 HS
> 1054 MS
>
> Resource:2013 - 2017 CIP

That is really intriguing considering the 7th and 8th grade classes at Robinson this year are nearly 200 students smaller in total than attended Robinson as recently as 5 years ago. I know the Middle School there has NOT LOST educational space so why the gap in capacity and enrollment?

Also, according to the Utilization Dashboard your building capacity numbers are wrong. I show 1,270 as the program capacity for Robinson Middle.

You are wrong.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: understanding capacity ()
Date: January 09, 2012 04:35PM

to Just a taxpayer, et.al.

FCPS (Tistadt) changes capacity of a building according to his future plans. Look at Westfield--when he wanted to spend the money on an addition, Westfield would have capacity of well over 3000--once it became a reality, Westfield really couldn't handle that many kids (probably true--they didn't expand cafeteria, gym, etc.)

I have always wondered about Tistadt and his motives since before South Lakes redistricting. FCPS story changes with the desires of staff and SB members. (One year, community schools are in, next year more opportunities are available at larger schools, etc.) It appears to me that a lot of this may have to do with justifying his construction management empire. Closing Clifton opened up a lot of construction--as did building South County Middle. It's all political--but in politics there is usually a payoff. What is his payoff? Keeping lots of people employed????? Worse?

WHY was Staff and Liz so anxious to close Clifton? It has to be more than moving west Springfield up the queue.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: At Max ()
Date: January 09, 2012 04:43PM

Not wrong, simply stating what is in the CIP.

No one was anxious to close CES, the facts however proved closure. An option and savings occurred. You can disupute till the sun comes up but according to FCPS savings of several millions occurred and such savings were reallocated--like it or not. That is business and Liz was business, I saw her bio and you should have known that.
Capacity depends upon programming. Also how many trailers does Robinson have? According to the CIP they have 17 and a modular. The school is over capacity.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 09, 2012 04:44PM

Justataxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> at max Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Robinson is at max:
> >
> > Current Enrollment
> > 2719 HS
> > 1142 MS
> >
> > Building Capacity
> > 2561 HS
> > 1054 MS
> >
> > Resource:2013 - 2017 CIP
>
> That is really intriguing considering the 7th and
> 8th grade classes at Robinson this year are nearly
> 200 students smaller in total than attended
> Robinson as recently as 5 years ago. I know the
> Middle School there has NOT LOST educational space
> so why the gap in capacity and enrollment?
>
> Also, according to the Utilization Dashboard your
> building capacity numbers are wrong. I show 1,270
> as the program capacity for Robinson Middle.
>
> You are wrong.

Space for 216 students at Robinson Middle disappeared between September (Facility & Enrollment Dashboard - Fall 2011) and December (CIP). While I know there was a flood in the middle school at Robinson I also know the space was put back to use. Here is yet another example of FCPS not knowing what the truth is. How did space in a building reduce by over 8 classrooms in 3 months? These folks are horrible when it comes to data integrity. And to the poster of this data, you were correct in you numbers given the source but do you trust that source now that I showed you my source? Which by the way comes from the same department within FCPS.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 09, 2012 04:49PM

At Max Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not wrong, simply stating what is in the CIP.
>
> No one was anxious to close CES, the facts however
> proved closure. An option and savings occurred.
> You can disupute till the sun comes up but
> according to FCPS savings of several millions
> occurred and such savings were reallocated--like
> it or not. That is business and Liz was business,
> I saw her bio and you should have known that.
> Capacity depends upon programming. Also how many
> trailers does Robinson have? According to the CIP
> they have 17 and a modular. The school is over
> capacity.

The savings were exaggerated. Staffing levels at schools receiving Clifton students in many cases increased to adjust for the added students. I highly doubt the operating costs on an annual basis were lower by more than $500,000, if that given the added time buses are on the roads and the infrastructure adds needed at the receiving schools.

Clearly you don't understand that here trailers become standard capacity over time. And at the Middle School level at Robinson only 2 show as being used in the dashboard on FCPS.edu. Find a school without a trailer and you have found a gem in the rough.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Clifton had no trailers ()
Date: January 09, 2012 04:59PM

We will never know why they really closed Clifton. I believe it was to push up the numbers for the SOL's.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: I know ()
Date: January 09, 2012 07:15PM

Trailers do not become standard capacity, only modulars.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 09, 2012 08:54PM

I know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trailers do not become standard capacity, only
> modulars.

Figure of speech my friend. Once a trailer hits school grounds it stays there forever unless you have a renovation, then they leave temporarily only to return in 2 to 3 years. Oh and for new schools trailers show up before the new school opens except at South County Middle because there won't be enough students there to require trailers.

Since you know so much please explain away the discrepancies in capacity numbers for Robinson Middle between the CIP and the dashboard.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 09, 2012 09:01PM

Justataxpayer is spot on!!! Too bad everyone else continues to drink the kook-aid supplied by FCPS and "staff".

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: the Taxpayer ()
Date: January 10, 2012 12:55PM

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Justataxpayer is spot on!!! Too bad everyone else
> continues to drink the kook-aid supplied by FCPS
> and "staff".

Are you two still going on about this? Look, it made fiscal sense to close the school, and we've been over this time after time with facts and proof. Yet the two of you keep coming back with your spin, lies and opinions. We understand that it was tough to lose your little school; it's time to move on. But you won't, and continue to waste money on lawyers by clinging to your FOIA suit.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 10, 2012 02:44PM

the Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Justataxpayer is spot on!!! Too bad everyone
> else
> > continues to drink the kook-aid supplied by
> FCPS
> > and "staff".
>
> Are you two still going on about this? Look, it
> made fiscal sense to close the school, and we've
> been over this time after time with facts and
> proof. Yet the two of you keep coming back with
> your spin, lies and opinions. We understand that
> it was tough to lose your little school; it's time
> to move on. But you won't, and continue to waste
> money on lawyers by clinging to your FOIA suit.

Let's be clear, Jill Hill filed the FOIA case and I am not her. I will say good on her trying to make sure public meetings remain public. If the School Board and FCPS staff were so above board on their actions, why would the state supreme court even hear the case?

My points continue to be associated with the very apparent fact that staff in the Transportation and Facilities department make data look however they want to match the wishes of Dean and Dr. Dale. How else can one explain all of the inconsistencies in reported capacities and enrollments? Unless a major overhaul has happened at a school since the start of the school year, I can't reasonably explain the loss of nearly 20% of the program capacity at Robinson. You have yet to explain or defend any of the arguments related to that topic which likely means you agree with me but are afraid to state that. What is the case?

And again as I have stated before, if my family had not experienced the great educational programs and staff/teacher/community blend that was Clifton Elementary we likely would not know the difference. But the reality is that we did and we now do know the difference and it is not the grandiose improvement with massively expanded educational opportunities that Mrs. Bradsher spoke of but could never detail. It has been a step backwards.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: I agree ()
Date: January 10, 2012 03:18PM

I am also a former CES parent. Justataxpayer is 100% correct. He seems to be one of only a handful of people on this thread who make any sense. The rest are either haters or just copy and past what the FCPS web site tries to state as fact.

Since the closing of Clifton ES I have not seen an improvement in my kids education. The bus rides are longer, the classes are bigger and my kids have little if any homework.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 10, 2012 03:38PM

Hey Liz,

Fiscal sense - blah, blah, blah. We have yet to see the proof of this "fiscal sense" or the imagined savings.

We've moved on, our kids have moved on, and now they are faced with activities at their new schools that they can't participate in because there are simply too many kids, with too little space, to allow EVERYONE to participate or certain activities just never happen at all. So much for your claims of "larger schools provide more opportunity".

Know what else some of our kids are dealing with now? How about hour long bus rides, or better yet, having to arrive at school 20-30 minutes early only to sit in the common space or their classrooms because there isn't enough room at the new schools to allow all of the buses to arrive at the same time. Therefore the bus arrivals have to be staggered so they're not waiting on busy roads to get into the parking lot. Even then, there is at least one bus from Burke that is late everyday. Yeah, that's efficient.

One of my personal favorite issues with the buses: the Clifton buses have to make multiple passes on the same road in order to pick up students on both sides of the route, so the bus is forced to back up into a main road in Clifton and the driver relies on the 6th graders in the back of the bus to tell him when it is safe to back up. That's what every parent wants their child responsible for on the bus - telling the driver when it's safe to back up! God help that child if an accident does occur and that child is left to bear that burden of guilt. But hey, as long as it saves a few bucks, it's okay!

During a meeting at Fairview with the transportation dept., a parent stated that these issues are just a few of the reasons Clifton asked for a transportation study before the decision to close CES was made. The reply from FCPS, "The only reason you asked for a transportation study was because you thought it would change the decision about Clifton. I'm telling you now, there is absolutely nothing that would have changed that decision". That is a direct quote, by the way. I take very detailed notes.

As for the continued waste of money on the FOIA suit - what's the matter, Liz? Worried that the supreme court might be on to something? They obviously found merit in the initial suit or they would not have granted the appeal. Time will only tell.

I find it very telling that you continue to try to defend the decision to close CES. Why do you still care if it was the right decision and you're at peace with it? Guilty conscience?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: wrong again ()
Date: January 10, 2012 04:09PM

Not Liz so wrong again. Your baiting is piss poor.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 10, 2012 04:15PM

wrong again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not Liz so wrong again. Your baiting is piss
> poor.


Good to know you can answer that question, how about this one...

What educational opportunities have been given to the prior students from Clifton Elementary at their new schools that were not present at their prior school? The only program in existence at the receiving schools that was not available or able to be provided is SACC. And best of luck to any of the prior Clifton families of getting in off the waitlist at Union Mill, Fairview or Oak View. So seriously, what great programs that were not at Clifton are there now? I can tell you there were programs at Clifton that don't exist in the new schools therefore a step backwards in educational value...

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: missing clifton ()
Date: January 10, 2012 04:45PM

Yes there are alot of programs that were at CES that aren't at the feeder elementary, the innovation fair, art in the schools, an active PTA. boy and girl scouts that are actually FROM the Clifton community. You people have these thing in your community schools (Little Rocky Run and Union Mill for example) but you specifically don't want Clifton to have a good school because you are seething in jealousy.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: wrong again ()
Date: January 10, 2012 04:50PM

You said you have moved on so MOVE ON.
Why continue with the same BS comments over and over? If you have moved on then do so and stop your whining and thinking that you deserve more than others.

Your community made 2 huge mistakes; #1 You forgot CES was a public school and #2 Apparently you thought you could use threats to make Bradsher change her mind.

You have only yourselves to blame.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 10, 2012 05:06PM

wrong again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You said you have moved on so MOVE ON.
> Why continue with the same BS comments over and
> over? If you have moved on then do so and stop
> your whining and thinking that you deserve more
> than others.
>
> Your community made 2 huge mistakes; #1 You forgot
> CES was a public school and #2 Apparently you
> thought you could use threats to make Bradsher
> change her mind.
>
> You have only yourselves to blame.


Name one threat. Just one.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 10, 2012 05:19PM

wrong again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You said you have moved on so MOVE ON.
> Why continue with the same BS comments over and
> over? If you have moved on then do so and stop
> your whining and thinking that you deserve more
> than others.
>
> Your community made 2 huge mistakes; #1 You forgot
> CES was a public school and #2 Apparently you
> thought you could use threats to make Bradsher
> change her mind.
>
> You have only yourselves to blame.

Three things for you:

1) Answer any of my prior questions about the continued lack of continuity in Facilities and Transportation capacity numbers.

2) Name one threat made to Mrs. Bradsher as well as the individual that made that threat prior to the vote.

3) With Mrs. Bradsher holding the southwestern elementary school community off indicating "I am working on something to buy time" while doing actually the complete opposite based on emails, how would you perceive her actions if she represented your community? Again, based on the statement made to the community with parallel efforts by email going in direct conflict to her statements to the public?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Educational fail ()
Date: January 10, 2012 06:56PM

FCPS has no clue. If you were a parent from CES you would be mad too if your child had a longer bus time, bigger classes and fewer educational choices. We are not asking for anything extra. Shame on FCPS.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: know ()
Date: January 10, 2012 07:49PM

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of my personal favorite issues with the buses:
> the Clifton buses have to make multiple passes on
> the same road in order to pick up students on both
> sides of the route, so the bus is forced to back
> up into a main road in Clifton and the driver
> relies on the 6th graders in the back of the bus
> to tell him when it is safe to back up. That's
> what every parent wants their child responsible
> for on the bus - telling the driver when it's safe
> to back up! God help that child if an accident
> does occur and that child is left to bear that
> burden of guilt. But hey, as long as it saves a
> few bucks, it's okay!


Using students to "spot" when backing up is something that bus drivers are told to do. No student is required to spot and if they do, they certainly are not responsible for ANYTHING.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Just a Troll ()
Date: January 10, 2012 08:39PM

Justataxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Trailers do not become standard capacity, only
> > modulars.
>
> Figure of speech my friend. Once a trailer hits
> school grounds it stays there forever unless you
> have a renovation, then they leave temporarily
> only to return in 2 to 3 years. Oh and for new
> schools trailers show up before the new school
> opens except at South County Middle because there
> won't be enough students there to require
> trailers.
>
> Since you know so much please explain away the
> discrepancies in capacity numbers for Robinson
> Middle between the CIP and the dashboard.

CIP numbers come out earlier and have usually use facility capacity. Program capacity is on dashboard and that is figured out later after classrooms programmed for use.

Also stop calling other people entitled. Suing someone and then forcing fellow citizens to pay the bill is probably the most entitled thing I have ever heard of

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 10, 2012 08:54PM

know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of my personal favorite issues with the
> buses:
> > the Clifton buses have to make multiple passes
> on
> > the same road in order to pick up students on
> both
> > sides of the route, so the bus is forced to
> back
> > up into a main road in Clifton and the driver
> > relies on the 6th graders in the back of the
> bus
> > to tell him when it is safe to back up. That's
> > what every parent wants their child responsible
> > for on the bus - telling the driver when it's
> safe
> > to back up! God help that child if an accident
> > does occur and that child is left to bear that
> > burden of guilt. But hey, as long as it saves
> a
> > few bucks, it's okay!
>
>
> Using students to "spot" when backing up is
> something that bus drivers are told to do. No
> student is required to spot and if they do, they
> certainly are not responsible for ANYTHING.


That's completely besides the point. Being technically "responsible" for something and feeling responsible for something are two entirely two different things.

Using your logic, if all the kids simply refuse to "spot" for the driver, what is the driver supposed to do? Sit there and wait for someone to come to their rescue? It's not safe, shouldn't be done and wouldn't be necessary at all if CES were still open.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: know too ()
Date: January 10, 2012 09:15PM

Justataxpayor:

Name one threat made to Mrs. Bradsher as well as the individual that made that threat prior to the vote. ---- Supposedly Herrity threatened her and Hugo with a member of her family present and let's not forget your Mayor's email that was seen everywhere.

3) With Mrs. Bradsher holding the southwestern elementary school community off indicating "I am working on something to buy time" while doing actually the complete opposite based on emails, how would you perceive her actions if she represented your community? Again, based on the statement made to the community with parallel efforts by email going in direct conflict to her statements to the public?

She was going to defer the vote but it would have placed CES at the end of the CIP and that would have made matters worse for the infrastructure of the school. Staff and other members advised that would not be beneficial.

Didn't you even talk to her before writing all this crap to find out what had happened or do you just condemn people without finding out what took place? I spoke with her and I don't even live in your thankless area.
Oh that's right you would just rather condemn people.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 10, 2012 09:29PM

know too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Justataxpayor:
>
> Name one threat made to Mrs. Bradsher as well as
> the individual that made that threat prior to the
> vote. ---- Supposedly Herrity threatened her and
> Hugo with a member of her family present and let's
> not forget your Mayor's email that was seen
> everywhere.
>
> 3) With Mrs. Bradsher holding the southwestern
> elementary school community off indicating "I am
> working on something to buy time" while doing
> actually the complete opposite based on emails,
> how would you perceive her actions if she
> represented your community? Again, based on the
> statement made to the community with parallel
> efforts by email going in direct conflict to her
> statements to the public?
>
> She was going to defer the vote but it would have
> placed CES at the end of the CIP and that would
> have made matters worse for the infrastructure of
> the school. Staff and other members advised that
> would not be beneficial.
>
> Didn't you even talk to her before writing all
> this crap to find out what had happened or do you
> just condemn people without finding out what took
> place? I spoke with her and I don't even live in
> your thankless area.
> Oh that's right you would just rather condemn
> people.

My mayor? Last I checked there is a Chairman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, not a mayor of Fairfax County. The vast majority of people that had students attending Clifton Elementary did not live within the Town of Clifton. From what grapevine did you hear the Herrity story? I am focused on first-hand knowledge.

I would have liked to speak with Mrs. Bradsher following her vote but she wanted nothing to do with anyone regardless of whether reasonable or not following the vote if you had anything to do with Clifton. My condemnation of Mrs. Bradsher is based on my personal experience with her in this process and nothing to do with hearsay. I lived it and I know what I was told and what actually happened with regard to my interactions with her.

My only guess as to what Herrity said is that her Republican political future would be over if she didn't do something to at least appear supportive. And oddly enough he didn't even need to advance on such a statement (if that is what happened) as she killed her political future on her own.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: know ()
Date: January 10, 2012 09:52PM

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's completely besides the point. Being
> technically "responsible" for something and
> feeling responsible for something are two entirely
> two different things.
>
> Using your logic, if all the kids simply refuse to
> "spot" for the driver, what is the driver supposed
> to do? Sit there and wait for someone to come to
> their rescue? It's not safe, shouldn't be done
> and wouldn't be necessary at all if CES were still
> open.


County-wide, there are hundreds of bus routes that require backing up. So no, if there is no spotter, the bus driver does not sit and wait, they turn the bus around.

PS: Some of the CES buses had to back up and turn around.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 10, 2012 10:10PM

know too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Justataxpayor:
>
> Name one threat made to Mrs. Bradsher as well as
> the individual that made that threat prior to the
> vote. ---- Supposedly Herrity threatened her and
> Hugo with a member of her family present and let's
> not forget your Mayor's email that was seen
> everywhere.
>
> 3) With Mrs. Bradsher holding the southwestern
> elementary school community off indicating "I am
> working on something to buy time" while doing
> actually the complete opposite based on emails,
> how would you perceive her actions if she
> represented your community? Again, based on the
> statement made to the community with parallel
> efforts by email going in direct conflict to her
> statements to the public?
>
> She was going to defer the vote but it would have
> placed CES at the end of the CIP and that would
> have made matters worse for the infrastructure of
> the school. Staff and other members advised that
> would not be beneficial.
>
> Didn't you even talk to her before writing all
> this crap to find out what had happened or do you
> just condemn people without finding out what took
> place? I spoke with her and I don't even live in
> your thankless area.
> Oh that's right you would just rather condemn
> people.


First, please learn the correct spelling of taxpayer. There is no "o".

You still haven't told us the threat. Maybe because there wasn't any?

As for whether or not she was going to defer the vote, nice try to justify why she didn't, but if you've bothered to read her emails leading up to the vote, you would know that that was a lie. She NEVER had any intention of deferring the vote and when Ms. Hone did try to defer the vote, Mr. Gibson sent an email to Ms. Bradsher telling her to please make sure everyone else on the board knew that she did not support deferring the vote.

You act like we're making this stuff up. Keep on believing whatever you want. The facts are there in black in white if you take the time to read them, without your rose colored glasses and Liz in your back pocket. Bradsher's behavior and lies to this community were despicable. There's no hiding that fact and that is why she's being condemned. She created this disaster, not us.

Tell me, since you seem to know every detail about her.....at the PTA meeting at CES when this issue first came about and Ms. Bradsher told us that we have to "prove the value of your school if you want to save it", exactly how does one go about doing that?? The 2nd top performing school in the county, with parents that are engaged and students that are thriving have no value? What, we were supposed to prove the value of the building and the land it sits on? That's what the tax assessors office is for. If being the 2nd top performing school, having engaged parents and teachers that love where they work doesn't prove the value, what does? Please explain. I'm dying to know!

Oh, and the mayor? What mayor and what email? Like Justataxpayer, I have no mayor that resides over where I live, unless Fairfax County has elected one and it somehow slipped by me. As for an email, do tell! It sounds like it was interesting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2012 10:22PM by herewegoagain.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 10, 2012 10:18PM

know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's completely besides the point. Being
> > technically "responsible" for something and
> > feeling responsible for something are two
> entirely
> > two different things.
> >
> > Using your logic, if all the kids simply refuse
> to
> > "spot" for the driver, what is the driver
> supposed
> > to do? Sit there and wait for someone to come
> to
> > their rescue? It's not safe, shouldn't be done
> > and wouldn't be necessary at all if CES were
> still
> > open.
>
>
> County-wide, there are hundreds of bus routes that
> require backing up. So no, if there is no
> spotter, the bus driver does not sit and wait,
> they turn the bus around.
>
> PS: Some of the CES buses had to back up and turn
> around.


What do they do if there is no where to turn around? This particular bus backs up on a main road in Clifton, on a blind hill. There is no way the bus driver can see to safely back up. I'm really, honestly, trying to understand this, not fight with you. I don't see how that can be allowed. It's simply not safe.

Which buses from CES had to back up? None that I'm aware of, but I certainly didn't know every route at CES. I do for the Clifton buses to Fairview only because the routes have changed half a dozen times since the beginning of the school year and none of us could keep up with the changes, which occurred daily and in one case, there were two changes to the route in the same day. A transportation study should have been done, at the very least.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: the Taxpayer ()
Date: January 11, 2012 01:42PM

I don't blame Bradsher for not wanting anything to do with the Clifton supporters. Just dig up the Collusion thread here and see the vile comments, posts with her children's pictures, and taunts to the one young man who voiced his opinion. Hateful and shameful.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 11, 2012 03:23PM

oh, you mean the thread that was started after Bradsher stabbed Clifton in the back? That thread? Please do dig it up. It shows the hateful and shameful way she treated Clifton behind the scenes. There's an old saying - lead by example. Well, she led the example, not us.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: perspective ()
Date: January 11, 2012 03:56PM

Educational fail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS has no clue. If you were a parent from CES
> you would be mad too if your child had a longer
> bus time, bigger classes and fewer educational
> choices. We are not asking for anything extra.
> Shame on FCPS.


you forgot more minorities to go to school with. why do the clifton people keep leaving out the biggest reason they fought the closure

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: wrong again ()
Date: January 11, 2012 04:10PM

To Herewegoagain,

You brought this on yourselves. You were extremely nasty to her. Those emails demonstrate she was working to get answers on matters to the school and she asked tough questions that you did not want to hear answers to.

She represented all of the Springfield District and your issue had implications on many. How hard is this for you to see? Apparently very because you remain blinded by selfishness. She did her job. If she asked you what was it that made Clifton so much more special than any other ES what did you say? How were you more "special" than other schools?

Perhaps Perspective and the taxpayer has it right. BTW there is a mayor of Clifton, you should know that since you claim to know Bradsher and this county.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: perspective is WRONG ()
Date: January 11, 2012 04:22PM

WRONG. You are vile human being. Move along now.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: geezusHchrist ()
Date: January 11, 2012 08:41PM

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh, you mean the thread that was started after
> Bradsher stabbed Clifton in the back? That
> thread? Please do dig it up. It shows the hateful
> and shameful way she treated Clifton behind the
> scenes. There's an old saying - lead by example.
> Well, she led the example, not us.


herewegoagain you are a foul human being in my opinion.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: the Taxpayer ()
Date: January 11, 2012 09:49PM

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh, you mean the thread that was started after
> Bradsher stabbed Clifton in the back? That
> thread? Please do dig it up. It shows the hateful
> and shameful way she treated Clifton behind the
> scenes. There's an old saying - lead by example.
> Well, she led the example, not us.

ah, I see. Payback, retribution, revenge for the (perceived) wrong Bradsher brought upon Clifton.

You are evil. Closing Clifton was the fiscally prudent thing to do, but I am happier because you, Jill, Schultz, Lin Dai et al deserve some adversity. Look at it as expiating some of your bad Karma.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 11, 2012 09:55PM

perspective Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Educational fail Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FCPS has no clue. If you were a parent from CES
> > you would be mad too if your child had a longer
> > bus time, bigger classes and fewer educational
> > choices. We are not asking for anything extra.
> > Shame on FCPS.
>
>
> you forgot more minorities to go to school with.
> why do the clifton people keep leaving out the
> biggest reason they fought the closure

Really? That is your argument? Wow!

The composition of the student body at Clifton was a reflection of the attendance boundary. Would you say the same thing if a community school on Route 1 or Bailey's Crossroads was slated for closure and those communities became active in engaging the shool board to keep their community school? Oh and the composition of the receiving schools is not vastly different from what Clifton Elementary was. I know what biggitry and racism look like and the Clifton Elementary community was no where close to living those lifestyles of hate. Care to try again?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: wrong again ()
Date: January 11, 2012 11:44PM

Graham Road was engaged so was Fort Hunt - both closed. Clifton certainly demonstrated their hate. They also demonstrated by their actions that they felt they were above the rest of the county, teflon if you will.

Such actions obvioulsy did not go over well with the School Board and certainly comments about how Clifton students could not possibly go to certain schools didn't sit well with them. 9 members voted to close, pretty significant.

Bullies don't alwasy get their way.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: nicely said ()
Date: January 11, 2012 11:49PM

To The Taxpayer and wrong again:

Your entries are well stated.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: CES9 ()
Date: January 12, 2012 06:37AM

No matter how much you want to turn this into class warfare, CES parents were and are justified and should motivate others (with a "pair") to question the motives of FCPS and Tisdat. They always have ulterior motives, some kind of payoff. I know they do hate CES parents because they are more trouble, demand better education that lackadaisical disempowered parents, say-W Springfield. Don't think the motive was moving WSHS up. FCPS manipulates the numbers anyway that suits their case and they always get their way, some people say that control the media, which I would not be surprised. Money talks. When your kid is coming from a GT Center they can chose "pupil placement" pretty much anywhere they want, the school will take them (principals decision) but when they are normal or below average, they claim "overcrowding", hope nobody with half a brain actually believes that.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 07:03AM

nicely said Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To The Taxpayer and wrong again:
>
> Your entries are well stated.

Starting to wonder again if perhaps you are posing as more than one poster on this thread as your posts come at odd hours and within about 5 minutes of the Taxpayer and wrong again. We'll never know because you have not registered as a user so others can see all of you posts. Oh well.

As for your comments, Graham Road sued FCPS too. Not saying that was the right path for either Graham Road or certain Clifton families and Jill Hill, but they did. My questioning the motives of FCPS and some School Board members came out of ever changing data. Enrollment and capacity numbers moved based on the day of the week, the descriptions in the initial report about Clifton Elementary made it out to be situated in the alps and so dangerous to attempt to park there that you would think a student was killed every year just in the parking lot. The report discussed toxic water that would cost hundreds of thousands to make potable yet in the end the fix was less than $20,000 and was the same fix that the state of Virginia had been suggesting all along yet FCPS failed to implement for whatever reason. Based on the initial report one would think tens of thousands of dollars were put in to making sure individual bottled water servings were available for students while the reality was that less than $6,000 over 5 years was spent on water coolers and actual water for the school.

Liz started with the members of the Clifton community as very supportive and very much a part of the community. She was collaborative and open about how to approach the process. Yet somewhere between December and January the year of the vote she went silent and became less approachable. She fostered meetings with Fairfax Water to see what was possible for fire suppression. So early to midway through the analysis she was pretty good. I think the part that was so frustrating to those who read the timeframe of her FOIA'd emails was that while being very engaged and appearing supportive of the thoughts of the Clifton Elementary community she was garnering votes to close the school. That really is the crux of the frustration. My experience with her was very good up until about a month prior to the vote. I and others feel very justified in our perspectives of her and wanted everyone we knew to know what our real experience was which is why some of us continue to share this information.

And as for personal attacks, I am sure as in ANY group there are some crazies out there but I specifically worked in a calm and open manner through the vote. Also, did you know that Liz quoted her daughter as having executed a Google search on radioactive elements during the meeting where the vote was held. She specifically said "My daughter who is in FCPS just searched Google and here is what she found.". Seriously? Who does that in a professional environment?

On the "you didn't want to go to the other schools" note, chat with someone who has children attending Fairview and Union Mill and see if they view the additional students at their school as improving the educational environment from a crowdin perspective. Parents from Clifton and some families from Fairview and Union Mill knew their facilities could not handle the influx of over 120+ students at each school on top of full day K. That would be why families didn't want to go there, they didn't want the overcrowded cafeterias, complete lack of close-by and safe parking - think crossing 123 and Burke Centre Parkway to get to school functions because there is NO space in the lot at Fairview. Think of buses sitting ON 123 in the morning waiting to unload students a major commuter artery from Prince William County to Fairfax. Those were the reasons families did not want to go - in addition to knowing the community in which they reside would be split at least 2 and possibly as many as 4 ways. Nice thing is that all of the concerns came to be.

I would love to know each of your involvement in the southwestern boundary study. Are you and FCPS staff member, a School Board member, a member of one of the schools that received Clifton students or perhaps something else? You know by my posts that I was a Member of the Clifton Elementary community and involved in the community engagement process. What is your level of involvement?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: hamptonrd ()
Date: January 12, 2012 07:19AM

wrong again:"Bullies don't alwasy get their way." They do when they are FCPS and parents don't give a shit.,

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: not so ()
Date: January 12, 2012 08:24AM

justataxpayer:

TOTALLY INCORRECT ON ALL POINTS. YOU ARE OLD NEWS IF YOU HAVE SUCH ISSUES TALK TO THOSE WHO MADE THE DECISION AND MOVE ON. YOU TAKE EMAIL READING TO A NEW LEVEL OF MISINTERPETATION AND SPIN. SUCH BITTERNESS.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 08:31AM

not so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justataxpayer:
>
> TOTALLY INCORRECT ON ALL POINTS. YOU ARE OLD NEWS
> IF YOU HAVE SUCH ISSUES TALK TO THOSE WHO MADE THE
> DECISION AND MOVE ON. YOU TAKE EMAIL READING TO A
> NEW LEVEL OF MISINTERPETATION AND SPIN. SUCH
> BITTERNESS.

So Liz never worked with the community of Clifton early on? She wasn't engaged and approachable early on? The initial report didn't indicate along with future data from FCPS that the costs tonresolve water quality issues would be astronomical and the report never mentioned the "steepngrade of the driveway" to Clifton which really is a gradual incline when compared to the drives in ti some schools? Honestly, why would I make any of this up? I lived it. Based on your blanket statement that everything I say is incorrect my guess is you don't have a grasp on reality. Again, I lived it. I am not making this stuff up and have no reason to. FCPS closed the school and I doubt that will change, but I do know the truth in what I experienced.

Oh and there is a key just to the left of the letters on your keyboard that controls caps lock. You may want to use it.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Herndon observer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 08:36AM

Having gone through South Lakes redistricting, I can tell you that the decision was made before the study was begun. Oh yes, there may have been a little "tweaking" to keep the affluent Restoners at Herndon (those are the ones who were not already at Langley!), and to keep more low income students out of South Lakes or Herndon, but, ultimately, Gibson and South Lakes PTA got exactly what they wanted and designed.

As far as Clifton, the only thing that is different is that there were two issues: closing Clifton and overcrowding in area elementary schools. I still contend that there was a use planned for the Clifton site that we are unaware of. It is the only thing that makes sense--FCPS (Tistadt) was ready to build at Liberty until the asbestos issue arose--if they could build at the Clifton site back when it was built initially--why can't they improve or build on it now? It just does not make sense.

My take: Kathy Smith used the boundary study after Clifton closure to hide her manipulation of Poplar Tree boundary. She was successful. Check membership demographics last year vs this year. She sent her low income students to Virginia Run and was going to offer the "carrot" of "All day K" in exchange--that was before the BOS told FCPS to give everyone all day K. Liz did have political motives, as well. But, why was FCPS so intent on closing it? I think that is where the answer lies.

Using the "race card" to attack Clifton parents is pretty low. Gibson used this during South Lakes--when parents complained about being redistricting every 2-3 years, not wanting IB instead of AP, and pointing out that studies indicating that South Lakes being overcrowded in a short time, they were attacked with the "race card". Guess what: South Lakes now has trailers.

I don't know what the motive for closing Clifton was. I truly believe it has something to do with the future use of the Clifton site.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: wshs 81 ()
Date: January 12, 2012 09:03AM

Justataxpayer enjoys revisionist history and was NOT a member of the Southwest Engagement Committee, can tell by comments and what I read.

The issues surrounding the closure of Clifton was capital funding and too few dollars. If you believe there were motives then you really think too much and giving far too much thought to the site of the school.

I believe no one is using it now. Seems there is no rush to do anything with the site.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 09:21AM

wshs 81 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Justataxpayer enjoys revisionist history and was
> NOT a member of the Southwest Engagement
> Committee, can tell by comments and what I read.
>
> The issues surrounding the closure of Clifton was
> capital funding and too few dollars. If you
> believe there were motives then you really think
> too much and giving far too much thought to the
> site of the school.
>
> I believe no one is using it now. Seems there is
> no rush to do anything with the site.

I have not represented myself as a member of the committee in any post so no idea why you would think I did. The history I state is fact. I attended meetings and followed all of this from the start and continue to. The only piece I have missed is whatever actual discussions happened in private between staff and School Board members.

If the issue of closing Clifton was all about capital spending, why not base the argument solely on lack of funds? That was only one area covered. Oh and by the way did you know there are other schools in FCPS with smaller enrollments - some this year as low as 100+ students smaller than Clifton that have been renovated in the last 5 to 10 years. Sounds almost discriminatory if you go solely based on cost because the figures don't show equality.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:18AM

Herndon observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Using the "race card" to attack Clifton parents is
> pretty low. Gibson used this during South
> Lakes--when parents complained about being
> redistricting every 2-3 years, not wanting IB
> instead of AP, and pointing out that studies
> indicating that South Lakes being overcrowded in
> a short time, they were attacked with the "race
> card". Guess what: South Lakes now has trailers.

Oh please. Denying that the resistance to the South Lakes redistricting was rooted in racism is laughable and rediculous. IB vs AP was a convenient red herring.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:38AM

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Herndon observer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Using the "race card" to attack Clifton parents
> is
> > pretty low. Gibson used this during South
> > Lakes--when parents complained about being
> > redistricting every 2-3 years, not wanting IB
> > instead of AP, and pointing out that studies
> > indicating that South Lakes being overcrowded
> in
> > a short time, they were attacked with the "race
> > card". Guess what: South Lakes now has
> trailers.
>
> Oh please. Denying that the resistance to the
> South Lakes redistricting was rooted in racism is
> laughable and rediculous. IB vs AP was a
> convenient red herring.

Conspiracy theory much? Seems to be too convenient to always use the race issue as the reason for a person's perspective and doing so is in itself racist. Can't we all just get along?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: burke parent ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:46AM

Interesting that this thread was resurrected right after the new school board took office. Almost like Elizabeth Bradsher was biding her time until she officially left office before seeking her own form of revenge for being shown for what she really was - an elected official that her constituents couldn't trust.

I don't think the Clifton parents were/are after revenge. I think they were fed up with being lied to, had the gumption to call it like they see it and wanted the rest of us to see the extent of the manipulation that went on in order to close the school.

It was a mistake to close that school and now we're all paying for it.

I have had the pleasure of meeting several of the new families at our school that came from Clifton. They are great kids from what I have seen and the parents are engaged and pleasant.

What a waste for that school to just sit there when we have schools that are overcrowded.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: to just sayin ()
Date: January 12, 2012 11:19AM

IB vs AP:

There is a difference and the parents were rightly concerned about it.

I have spoken recently with two young people who are at different colleges. Both of these took AP courses at their high schools and both had roommates who graduated from two different FCPS IB schools. The two that I spoke with talked about how lucky they were to have graduated from AP schools as they were given much more credit for their courses than their roommates. Their roommates (one from Robinson and one from Mt. Vernon) both agreed. They felt that for all the work they did on IB, that they were not given equal credit. Both of the IB students think they would have benefited more from AP. They really did not defend the IB program at all.

Personally, I think the IB program has great value for some students--but it does not offer the flexibility that AP offers.

AND, how do you know that race was the issue at South Lakes redistricting? If that was the case, why did Chantilly parents fight against being redistricted to Oakton?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: scam ()
Date: January 12, 2012 11:25AM

Both of my kids graduated from FCPS, one with IB credits and diploma and my daughter took lots of AP classes-huge difference, my daughter got almost a years worth of credit, the IB credits were not accepted and even scoffed at.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: January 12, 2012 11:31AM

to just sayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AND, how do you know that race was the issue at
> South Lakes redistricting? If that was the case,
> why did Chantilly parents fight against being
> redistricted to Oakton?

I don't have any knowledge of that, only South Lakes and Clifton ES. There can be many reasons to fight a move, I don't know that racism was a significant factor in that one though I'm guessing not as the race makeup is roughly similar.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: the Taxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 11:50AM

burke parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting that this thread was resurrected right
> after the new school board took office. Almost
> like Elizabeth Bradsher was biding her time until
> she officially left office before seeking her own
> form of revenge for being shown for what she
> really was - an elected official that her
> constituents couldn't trust.
>
> I don't think the Clifton parents were/are after
> revenge. I think they were fed up with being lied
> to, had the gumption to call it like they see it
> and wanted the rest of us to see the extent of the
> manipulation that went on in order to close the
> school.
>
> It was a mistake to close that school and now
> we're all paying for it.
>
> I have had the pleasure of meeting several of the
> new families at our school that came from Clifton.
> They are great kids from what I have seen and the
> parents are engaged and pleasant.
>
> What a waste for that school to just sit there
> when we have schools that are overcrowded.

sheesh, okay one at a time, it seems that you've taken in the Clifton Koolaid.

Bradsheer had more constituents than Clifton, so saying her constituents couldn't trust her is false. The BOARD voted to close the school, many were later reelected. Some, like Moon, have overwhelming support.

The evidence posted here confirms that it was not a mistake to close the school, and having it sit is better than throwing a huge amount of money at it to get it up to standards and safe.

Clifton parents were and are mean and vindictive in regard to this topic. While it's understandable to be ticked off by losing the school, they are over the top rude on this forum and elsewhere.

Glad to hear you find the Clifton parents you met engaged and pleasant, perhaps they can finally let go and move on.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: burke parent ()
Date: January 12, 2012 01:41PM

the Taxpayer Wrote:

>
> sheesh, okay one at a time, it seems that you've
> taken in the Clifton Koolaid.

And you've had your fair share of Bradsher's.


> Bradsheer had more constituents than Clifton, so
> saying her constituents couldn't trust her is
> false. The BOARD voted to close the school, many
> were later reelected. Some, like Moon, have
> overwhelming support.

so it was okay to lie to Clifton parents as long as she was truthful to the rest of the district? Sorry, not buying it.
Mr. Moon has overwhelming support.......so? His reelection has nothing to do with Ms. Bradsher.



> The evidence posted here confirms that it was not
> a mistake to close the school, and having it sit
> is better than throwing a huge amount of money at
> it to get it up to standards and safe.

How was Clifton unsafe? Or not up to standards? My kids used to have art in the art room, now they only have art on a cart. Is that up to standards? My kids used to have all of their classes in a classroom, now they have some in trailers. Is that up to standards? Whose standards? Not mine.
I find it hard to believe that Clifton parents would have allowed their children to attend a school that was deemed unsafe, or been willing to allow other schools to be renovated before theirs if it was in such dire need of a renovation. The supposed horrible condition of the school didn't seem to degrade the level of education they were receiving. Again, I'm not buying it.


> Clifton parents were and are mean and vindictive
> in regard to this topic. While it's understandable
> to be ticked off by losing the school, they are
> over the top rude on this forum and elsewhere.

You're unfairly painting an entire community as mean and vindictive by the actions of a few? That's like saying the entire school district is crap because of a few schools that don't make AYP. It sounds to me like you need to get over yourself.


> Glad to hear you find the Clifton parents you met
> engaged and pleasant, perhaps they can finally let
> go and move on.

They're as pleasant as can be. Can't say the same for you or Ms. Bradsher, unfortunately.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: to justsayin ()
Date: January 12, 2012 01:52PM

Chantilly/Oakton/Westfield were all part of the South Lakes redistricting. Many people do not realize that while Oakton/Westfield families were trying to stay put at their respective schools, that two neighborhoods of Chantilly parents (Navy and Oak Hill) were fighting to stay at Chantilly.

These neighborhoods testified at meetings and talked and wrote to school board members just as the Floris/Reston/Herndon neighborhoods did. Eventually, the Navy students were sent to Oakton against their wishes. These kids live about one mile from Chantilly--off of Rte 50.

Chantilly was brought in because Gibson intended to take kids from Oakton and put them in South Lakes--that would have left Oakton underserved--therefore Navy students had to be sent to Oakton from Chantilly. At that time the SB was saying that 2000 was optimum size of high school--even though they had just added on to Westfield.

I really think that a lot of the redistricting helps to justify more construction for FCPS--the question is why that is so desirable.

These schools could be refurbished and renovated without all the bells and whistles that were given to South Lakes and Woodson. How about basic technological upgrades and cleanup rather than sparkles and glitter?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: January 12, 2012 01:55PM

I appreciate the background info, thank you!

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: the Taxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 02:13PM

burke parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a lot of nothing and blah blah blah


Your kids went to Clifton. Got it. Understand you spinning the facts for your benefit.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Clifton parents are wonderful! ()
Date: January 12, 2012 02:30PM

My kids did go to Clifton. Got it? Good. Now you stop spinning the facts to suit you.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: burke parent ()
Date: January 12, 2012 02:40PM

Wow, you are really very insecure, aren't you?

Nice try, but my children didn't attend Clifton.

This thread has been very enlightening, and not in a positive way towards Ms. Bradsher (or should I just say YOU?). In fact, just the opposite. It seems that anyone that disagrees with her is immediately painted as evil, regardless of where they live. It is no wonder there is so much animosity from Clifton.

No skin off my back, but you may want to seek anger management, or therapy at the very least.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: therapy? ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:53PM

the people who need therapy are those who keep their kids in bad schools and don't do anything about it, at least CES parents tried.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:55PM

Just a Troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Justataxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I know Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Trailers do not become standard capacity,
> only
> > > modulars.
> >
> > Figure of speech my friend. Once a trailer
> hits
> > school grounds it stays there forever unless
> you
> > have a renovation, then they leave temporarily
> > only to return in 2 to 3 years. Oh and for new
> > schools trailers show up before the new school
> > opens except at South County Middle because
> there
> > won't be enough students there to require
> > trailers.
> >
> > Since you know so much please explain away the
> > discrepancies in capacity numbers for Robinson
> > Middle between the CIP and the dashboard.
>
> CIP numbers come out earlier and have usually use
> facility capacity. Program capacity is on
> dashboard and that is figured out later after
> classrooms programmed for use.

What you said makes no sense. How can facility capacity be lower than the program capacity of a facility. The other way around makes sense but not the method you have described.

> Also stop calling other people entitled. Suing
> someone and then forcing fellow citizens to pay
> the bill is probably the most entitled thing I
> have ever heard of

I am sorry but there are laws in this country for a reason and when it appears someone is skirting the legal vs unlawful line I have no issue with my tax dollars paying to make sure everyone is behaving within the limits of the law. Also, I am suing no one and never have. Don't lecture me on entitlement as I've been paying boatloads of taxes here to fund minimal services used by my family that are available to all citizens regardless of income level (think schools, public safety, roads, trash - where actually I pay a service incremental fees to pick up at my house) and public libraries. I could care less if the hours of operation of the library were cut or if the school day was shorter or longer....I am however quite frustrated when a service that once was great becomes less than par and I am asked to continually pay more for it (think my experience with Clifton Elementary). That to me isn't entitlement, it is common sense. What fool continues to pay higher rates for worse service? Would you do it with your phone company? Your cable company if you have one? Not likely. So why accept that in government? Perhaps because that is the way it has become, but that isn't the way it should be.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: the Taxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:56PM

burke parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice try, but my children didn't attend Clifton.
>


Please clarify:


burke parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> How was Clifton unsafe? Or not up to standards?
> My kids used to have art in the art room, now they
> only have art on a cart. Is that up to standards?
> My kids used to have all of their classes in a
> classroom, now they have some in trailers. Is
> that up to standards? Whose standards? Not mine.


Seems that you are defending the unsafe putrid water CES through your kids experience.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: disgusted5 ()
Date: January 12, 2012 03:59PM

thats a joke, there was no unsafe putrid water, it was tested independently, not with FCPS cronies who "cook the numbers" just more BS they make up as they see fit to justify whatever the not so hidden agenda is.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 04:02PM

the Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> burke parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nice try, but my children didn't attend
> Clifton.
> >
>
>
> Please clarify:
>
>
> burke parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > How was Clifton unsafe? Or not up to standards?
>
> > My kids used to have art in the art room, now
> they
> > only have art on a cart. Is that up to
> standards?
> > My kids used to have all of their classes in a
> > classroom, now they have some in trailers. Is
> > that up to standards? Whose standards? Not
> mine.
>
>
> Seems that you are defending the unsafe putrid
> water CES through your kids experience.

Unsafe water is old news. FCPS fixed the water challenges and announced they had done so at the meeting where the vote to close the school happened. That fact was known to Dean hours before the meeting but he decided to hold off on telling everyone until he sent an email informing the School Board DURING THE MEETING. We'll all wait here for you to catch up.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: wrong again ()
Date: January 12, 2012 04:19PM

The water was an issue but was somewhat resolved to a certain extent however in the end the other issues of costs came into play, that being the renovation costs of the school, the issues with the topography for a renovation, the pump and hall situation for waste, the issue of low density and minimal student growth etc. All of which was in the reports and placed on the FCPS website. Your remarks demonstrate that you believe the surrounding schools are sub-par. That is not the case, it also demonstrated your perception of a public school, CES, operating as a private school.
CES was a public school and therefore public dollars were being spent to operate a school with high facility need for a minimal amount of students, costing more per student to operate and not up to FCPS standards and efficiencies.

You can write about this till the year 2050 however the issues as to why the school closed will remain the same. You can make Bradsher your fall person all you want but the issues will still remain. She did what she had to do --- a no win situation politically but a right decision for the county and use of capital dollars.

Interesting that logical people here are disagreeing with justataxpayer and Burke parent---Logic seems to scare "justataxpayor" and once again they blame Bradsher.

Hope she has moved on this is a waste of time.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: a question ()
Date: January 12, 2012 04:24PM

Why is the topography a problem for building?

How did they build the school initially? With a mule?

It seems to me that it would be easier to build today than it was initially.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Interesting ()
Date: January 12, 2012 04:38PM

Wow! Such vitriol! Clifton parents stop feeding the trolls! Thanks for posting all info about this. One day, some other school or schools will be in play. It's important to understand how the school board works and how they use parents to spin for them. This is useful in understanding both sides.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 05:15PM

wrong again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The water was an issue but was somewhat resolved
> to a certain extent however in the end the other
> issues of costs came into play, that being the
> renovation costs of the school, the issues with
> the topography for a renovation, the pump and hall
> situation for waste, the issue of low density and
> minimal student growth etc. All of which was in
> the reports and placed on the FCPS website. Your
> remarks demonstrate that you believe the
> surrounding schools are sub-par. That is not the
> case, it also demonstrated your perception of a
> public school, CES, operating as a private
> school.
> CES was a public school and therefore public
> dollars were being spent to operate a school with
> high facility need for a minimal amount of
> students, costing more per student to operate and
> not up to FCPS standards and efficiencies.
>
> You can write about this till the year 2050
> however the issues as to why the school closed
> will remain the same. You can make Bradsher your
> fall person all you want but the issues will still
> remain. She did what she had to do --- a no win
> situation politically but a right decision for the
> county and use of capital dollars.
>
> Interesting that logical people here are
> disagreeing with justataxpayer and Burke
> parent---Logic seems to scare "justataxpayor" and
> once again they blame Bradsher.
>
> Hope she has moved on this is a waste of time.

Please explain your perception of Clifton Elementary operating as a private school? Nothing about the school made it a private school. Anyone living within the school boundary as well as any with a pupil placement need attended that school. What made it a private school? The size of the student population? If so, is Lemon Road at just 250 students this year also a private school? I can tell you Clifton did not have private school class sizes. All but the first grade the last year of the school being in operation had over 28 and in many cases over 30 in the individual classrooms. Some of the receiving schools have smaller class sizes yet you don't call them private. Please explain how it was a private school? You made that statement and now back it up with some evidence.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: dean ()
Date: January 12, 2012 05:40PM

Lemon Road has a big senior center and is used for community purposes far more than CES becaise of its remote location. LR is used by county and FCPS. Totally differently. Suspect the county will eventually take over the building.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: regularguy ()
Date: January 12, 2012 07:09PM

Interesting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! Such vitriol! Clifton parents stop feeding
> the trolls! Thanks for posting all info about
> this. One day, some other school or schools will
> be in play. It's important to understand how the
> school board works and how they use parents to
> spin for them. This is useful in understanding
> both sides.


Yes we will get our revenge one day you must be at the ready!

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: the Taxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 07:28PM

Justataxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Please explain your perception of Clifton
> Elementary operating as a private school? Nothing
> about the school made it a private school. Anyone
> living within the school boundary as well as any
> with a pupil placement need attended that school.
> What made it a private school? The size of the
> student population?

This is the piece you pulled out of that well written fact filled post on why it made sense to close Clifton?

The Clifton kids are still in good schools, they'll continue to excel, and beyond the teeth gnashing and resistance to change by the parents, all is well. Poster 'wrong again' has shared the facts on why closing Clifton ES was logical and the right thing to do. Many people came here and posted nasty stuff, both during the process and prior to the election in November. Clifton played hard and dirty to keep their school open, but ultimately the county taxpayers had their say in November. All incumbents who ran were reelected. That's just the way things work in this country.

I'll look for burkeparent's reply to my question on which statement was a lie, (kid went to CES or not), but the fats presented here (again) prove that closing CES was the proper action in a time of diminished resources.

We are sorry for your loss, Rest In Peace CES.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: I spin for no one ()
Date: January 12, 2012 07:50PM

I can't wait to hear what the court has to say on the private emails the SB sent to each other during an open meeting.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: WSHS81 ()
Date: January 12, 2012 08:31PM

Hone and Reed were sending emails but it was not considered a meeting. 2 members does not equate to a public meeting. More spin from I spin for no one,

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: one more thing ()
Date: January 12, 2012 08:39PM

CES was not up to Fx County's building code and there was no fire suppression system due to no water pressure in the building because it was on well water. The wells at the school did not have enough water pressure for a sprinkler system system. This too had to be taken into account. No one mentions this and I don't know why?

2 house burnt down in Clifton in late summer -- no water hydrants due to well water and no pressure to put out the fires. The houses burnt to the ground.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Why then ()
Date: January 12, 2012 08:51PM

The Supreme court of Virginia does not agree with you WSHS81. It has agreed to hear the case.

No spin.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Houses burned to the ground? ()
Date: January 12, 2012 08:54PM

I never heard about these homes in Clifton burning down. I was at the beach all summer so I may have missed it.

Can you provide the addresses. Thanks.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 09:04PM

one more thing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CES was not up to Fx County's building code and
> there was no fire suppression system due to no
> water pressure in the building because it was on
> well water. The wells at the school did not have
> enough water pressure for a sprinkler system
> system. This too had to be taken into account.
> No one mentions this and I don't know why?
>
> 2 house burnt down in Clifton in late summer -- no
> water hydrants due to well water and no pressure
> to put out the fires. The houses burnt to the
> ground.

Are you saying that all FCPS schools without fire suppression systems should be closed? Same for all that are not up to building codes? If so, thousands of students lives are at risk every day. What shall we do?

A storage tank with a pressure pump could address the fire suppression needs. Ever wonder how Prince William, Loudoun and other rural systems get sprinkler systems to work there? FCPS has a similar system in place at Woodson following all the work there I have heard. Of course direct connections from a well won't create enough pressure, hence the storage tank. FCPS isn't going to get crap for value on the Clifton site because they have characterized it as a deathtrap in top of a cliff. It is zoned such that you could only get 3 residential homes in that location so I don't see much value coming from the land at least not something overly substantial. Might be enough to pave a parking lot, who knows. With all the challenges noted by FCPS in attempting to stage equipment for a renovation it is a wonder that somehow the building was able to survive with decades of use and it was even capable of being built nearly over a half century ago.

As for other structure burning down, Stu reflected on the night Dogwood Elementary burned to the ground but never noted that the construction of that school combined with ignoring an alarm due to prior false alarms led to the complete loss of the structure. Essentially the building was a brick exterior shell with no interior walls and with a completely open area from the ceiling to the roof with no breaks from a concrete wall at all. The fire traveled rapidly through the open ceiling area throughout the building. Clifton was not constructed with such an open design therefore any fire at the site could have been contained to a particular area. The fire department can practically see the building out the front door of the fire house.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Laaaughing ()
Date: January 12, 2012 09:15PM

At this point, I can hardly wait for CES to be torn down, and the ground salted so that nothing ever grows there again. Fuck CES, fuck every kid who ever went there, fuck their whiny parents, fuck FOIA, fuck the school board, fuck y'all. Find another hobby. Collect stamps. Have an affair. For the love of Jesus Tapdancing Christ, move on from this.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 12, 2012 09:17PM

Thanks for the laugh, Laaughing.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: one more thing ()
Date: January 12, 2012 09:34PM

Well water provides no pressure. CES is far from looking like Dogwood which was on sewer and water. CES--pump and haul no water pressure. Your resolutions would cost the taxpayers additioanl $.

A water tank cost additional funding, all additioal CES funding added up. CES is on a cliff, it is isolated from other schools and roads, the building was not used on weekends to any great extent, the PA was not using it to any great extent nor the county. Most schools are used 24-7. How did Stu vote on CES?

CES' location could not be used for any special education services it was too remote and not up to code. It came down to demand for funding and county needs.

Note: Believe Dominion Valley Dr. was one address of the fire.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: firebug ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:01PM

CES had a big pipe running down the hill to Clifton Creek. Park a huge pumper truck down by the creek and they could fight a fire at that school, no problem. If the creek was dry, FCFD has some big tankers that could respond.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Clifton parent ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:39PM

FACTS SINCE CES CLOSED:

- MY KID'S NEW SCHOOL HAS ABOUT THE SAME DEMOS AS CES (so what's your argument about CES parents not wanting their kids to be in a more diverse school? BS on your part.)

- MY KID'S BUS RIDE IS NOW AN HOUR LONG!!

- SOUTH COUNTY MIDDLE SCHOOL IS BEING BUILT, BUT WSHS STILL WAITS FOR RENOVATIONS.

- CES KIDS WERE DRINKING WATER STRAIGHT FROM WATER FOUNTAINS AT CES LAST MAY. So much for your BS argument that the water was bad.

- UMES IS OVERCROWDED! How does this help overcrowding?

Why don't you naysayers actually experience what the former CES families have and THEN you can report back.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: What fires? ()
Date: January 12, 2012 10:47PM

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/fr/news/2011archive/2011news.htm

What houses burned in Clifton? There is nothing in the fire department's news releases about house fires.

More BS arguments from BS people.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: hampton8 ()
Date: January 13, 2012 07:21AM

"one more thing" is obviously BS FCPS employee troll.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: as long as it's not your kid, right? ()
Date: January 13, 2012 08:08AM

The way FCPS broke up CLifton was horrible. They took around 50 kids and sent them to OakView. For kids in several grades, there were only a handful of friends that transfered. Only ONE fifth grader. All of her friends (that she had been with since Kindergarten) went to other schools. In 3rd grade, there were 6 kids, 5 girls and 1 boy. Again, all of that boys' freinds went to different schools. So when you say our kids will be fine, think about ripping your child away from his or her school in fifth grade to go to a new school where she knows noone.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: cruel ()
Date: January 13, 2012 08:18AM

FCPS is cruel. So are the other parents on here who think they know it all and the Clifton kids are all rich snobs.

Clifton is great small community. I guess the haters are jealous.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: cleaningup ()
Date: January 13, 2012 08:30AM

as long as it's not your kid, right? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So when you say our kids will be fine,
> think about ripping your child away from his or
> her school in fifth grade to go to a new school
> where she knows noone.

So when a family moves as a normal course of life and the child naturally moves with the family to a different school and has to make new friends, that is "cruel." Wrong, that's called "life" and the kids will make new friends. And Clifton is a small enough area that they can see their old friends on weekends if their parents can leave the whining on this forum long enough to arrange something.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Hilaaaarious ()
Date: January 13, 2012 08:46AM

Ten years from now, the Clifton parents will gather at the CES site in black robes, and sacrifice chickens to the great gods of the darkness, mourning the loss of that freakin' building.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 13, 2012 09:34AM

cleaningup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as long as it's not your kid, right? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So when you say our kids will be fine,
> > think about ripping your child away from his or
> > her school in fifth grade to go to a new school
> > where she knows noone.
>
> So when a family moves as a normal course of life
> and the child naturally moves with the family to a
> different school and has to make new friends, that
> is "cruel." Wrong, that's called "life" and the
> kids will make new friends. And Clifton is a
> small enough area that they can see their old
> friends on weekends if their parents can leave the
> whining on this forum long enough to arrange
> something.

If I CHOOSE to move, then by all means my child will need to adapt and I expect to have to deal with the related challenges that come with it. That is by choice, not by having it inflicted upon you. I know my adjustment to a new employer is much more pleasant when I choose that transition vs being terminated as part of a layoff. Yes, children are resilient and I have seen many families working very hard to be positive in the adjustment but it is a challenge that requires a lot of focus when your child weekly talks of missing friends, teachers and programs from their old school. Things like "when is the fun fair?"; when there is none, "what is the sixth grade walk to the park going to be like"; when that won't happen, "when is the first grade play, Virginia Day, etc". The list goes on and on.

The community served by Clifton Elementary covered over 40 square miles. The students from Clifton were split into 3 different elementary school populations which was unprecedented in FCPS. Typically a school closure resulted in all students going to a new school or at most sending students to 2 schools. The closure was one thing, but the handling of the redistribution of students was a further twisting of the knife (and it continues!).

I am not sorry that I care for my children and want them to have a memorable experience in school. I am not exaggerating when I state that my child is doing ok academically but emotionally is a mess like never before. I question if some on this board are here simply to get some sick level of joy out of the challenges families are facing.

Many of you call folks who had children attending Clifton elementary racist, entitled and elitist. That is not remotely close to the type of people I experienced in the Clifton Elementary community. To have a second grader tell me that people at their new school are telling them their parents are racist and rich simply because of the school they came from is evidence that the hate is driven from adults as no 7 or 8 year-old can come up with that on their own. Grow up.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: burke parent ()
Date: January 13, 2012 09:40AM

the Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> burke parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nice try, but my children didn't attend
> Clifton.
> >
>
>
> Please clarify:
>
>
> burke parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > How was Clifton unsafe? Or not up to standards?
>
> > My kids used to have art in the art room, now
> they
> > only have art on a cart. Is that up to
> standards?
> > My kids used to have all of their classes in a
> > classroom, now they have some in trailers. Is
> > that up to standards? Whose standards? Not
> mine.
>
>
> Seems that you are defending the unsafe putrid
> water CES through your kids experience.


Seems that you are a little dense, so I'll spell it out for you.

My kids didn't attend Clifton; they are at Fairview, always have been. Fairview didn't have trailers before Clifton was closed; the trailers were necessary because of the additional students.

My children used to have art in the art room at Fairview; now they only have art on a cart. I find that interesting since one of the Clifton dads was explaining that one of the reasons Clifton was deemed inadequate was because the art room at Clifton lacked a second sink. A second sink. Art on a cart is so much better than a second sink. (that's sarcasm, by the way)

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 13, 2012 09:45AM

the Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> This is the piece you pulled out of that well
> written fact filled post on why it made sense to
> close Clifton?
>
> The Clifton kids are still in good schools,
> they'll continue to excel, and beyond the teeth
> gnashing and resistance to change by the parents,
> all is well. Poster 'wrong again' has shared the
> facts on why closing Clifton ES was logical and
> the right thing to do. Many people came here and
> posted nasty stuff, both during the process and
> prior to the election in November. Clifton played
> hard and dirty to keep their school open, but
> ultimately the county taxpayers had their say in
> November. All incumbents who ran were reelected.
> That's just the way things work in this country.
>
> I'll look for burkeparent's reply to my question
> on which statement was a lie, (kid went to CES or
> not), but the fats presented here (again) prove
> that closing CES was the proper action in a time
> of diminished resources.
>
> We are sorry for your loss, Rest In Peace CES.

My point is that the outside world's perception that Clifton Elementary was a private school was wrong. No one with students at Clifton Elementary perceived it as a private school. If they did, why send you child tonprivate school as many in the attendance district did prior to the school closing discussion.

As for the points you made for valid reasons to close, I need look no further than the front page of the Metro section of today's Washington Post to rebut your claims. NO ROOM AND NOT ENOUGH SPACE. If so true as stated by Dr. Dale, why remove capacity and expand the problem set as was done by pulling 400 educational seats out of the FCPS capacity?

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: No one really cares ()
Date: January 13, 2012 09:46AM

It is not over 40 sq miles once again something you made up which is to mean something significant to others but does not.

Please move on, get a grip on reality and welcome to the REAL world--Brigadoon was an imaginary place, play and movie. Time to see step into reality. Look into yourself for what is ailing your children.

The unfavorable comments about Clifton are a result of people like you. This thread is giving it back to you for all of your hateful comments that were on other threads in newspapers etc., you reap what you sew.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Justataxpayer ()
Date: January 13, 2012 10:18AM

No one really cares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not over 40 sq miles once again something
> you made up which is to mean something significant
> to others but does not.
>
> Please move on, get a grip on reality and welcome
> to the REAL world--Brigadoon was an imaginary
> place, play and movie. Time to see step into
> reality. Look into yourself for what is ailing
> your children.
>
> The unfavorable comments about Clifton are a
> result of people like you. This thread is giving
> it back to you for all of your hateful comments
> that were on other threads in newspapers etc., you
> reap what you sew.

The Clifton Elementary attendance zone stretched from just west of 123 all the way to the Occoquan. It ran from Popes Head Road all the way down to Henderson Road. It was big and every bit of 40 square miles (think 5 miles wide by 8 miles long and perhaps you can understand it better).

Yes, Brigadoon was an imaginary place and a great play that I myself have seen performed a number of times by high school and professional performers. Your point?

I have been living in reality for my entire life and use nothing to try and escape it. If by reality you are saying that we all must settle for mediocre, oversized, unwelcoming education, then yes, that is what we have found in many cases. Try as hard as some might to blend in with the surroundings at the new schools, it is hard to do so when 8 year olds call others parents racist because of the elementary school they came from and not because of any statement ever made. That is reality. Care to continue to foster the bigotry and hate?

People like me? Please elaborate how my statements or posts have fostered hate? Just because of my zip code or the fact my house is valued at $550,000 makes me a target for hate? Really? Are we all in high school still or are we adults? What statements have I made that foster such a perspective? I am simply stating my experience in this process. Apparently the truth is bothersome to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2012 10:19AM by Justataxpayer.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: kudos ()
Date: January 13, 2012 10:50AM

well said justataxpayer

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: Laaaughing ()
Date: January 13, 2012 10:52AM

Really, the objection to most of y'all is that you won't stop the unending flow of whining and mewling about losing Little Schoolhouse In The Volvo Zone. Game over, people.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: moronsinfcps ()
Date: January 13, 2012 10:59AM

Laaughing- thanks of making the case, since you are apparently an uneducated reflection of this system: "y'all...mewling" what is that? are you from the Ozarks, is this Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies? get real, go back to the mountains of Manassas.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: another clifton parent ()
Date: January 13, 2012 11:03AM

I hate that we lost our school. I hate the overcrowding at Fairview. I hate everything about how it was handled.

BUT I can't gripe about the bus ride. My kids are on the bus about HALF as long as they were when they went to CES. My house is much closer to Fairview than CES.

It's the breaks I guess, not everybody can board at the last stop in the morning and get off at the first stop in the afternoon.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: howsad ()
Date: January 13, 2012 11:44AM

Justataxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I CHOOSE to move, then by all means my child
> will need to adapt and I expect to have to deal
> with the related challenges that come with it.
> That is by choice, not by having it inflicted upon
> you. I know my adjustment to a new employer is
> much more pleasant when I choose that transition
> vs being terminated as part of a layoff.

What a bubble world you must live in... coming from a military family that had me in three elementary schools as a child, I can tell you 1) moves are often NOT voluntary and 2) I turned out just fine.

When I look back at my life and think back on having to make new friends, sure it is an adjustment but I think I'm socially better for it. Plus I tripled the number of friends I had!

But saying a single school change in the same geographic area is cruel (and proceeding to defend that position) is whiney and spoiled. I am shaking my head at using that term, hard to believe some are so sheltered and limited in their thinking.

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Re: CLIFTON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Posted by: justsayin ()
Date: January 13, 2012 11:46AM

No one really cares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you reap what you sew.

You WEAR what you sew. You reap what you sow.

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