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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:07PM

VaDriver: Clos du Bois has been on sale at Safeway. I stocked up. Excellent wine. Try Rockbridge chardonnay, too, and you'll be supporting a top-ranked Virginia winery.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:15PM

Navy area parents: I do not understand why you lambaste South Lakes when your beef is that you want to stay with Chantilly. Why aren't you fighting that battle for yourselves?

In fact, why didn't communities try to figure out what kinds of changes to the boundary scenarios would work for them AND for South Lakes under the constraints of this boundary study? What I have been hearing is what kids do -- whine about something they want but won't get, and end up having their parents make the decision for them.

I think things could have been much different if somewhere in all this other communities had come up with reasonable scenarios. Instead, almost all the "talking points" they put out cried "not us, not us" and "IB is inferior" and "moratorium." That was not helpful, and they are facing the consequences.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Glarson ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:16PM

What truthbetold, slverity, reston parent write: "blah, blah, blabity, blah"

What Fox Mill, Madison and Floris Islanders and others hear: "blah, blah, blabity, blah"

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:27PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, why didn't communities try to figure out
> what kinds of changes to the boundary scenarios
> would work for them AND for South Lakes under the
> constraints of this boundary study?

First, we are not obliged to accept some or all of the School Board's criteria as valid. Their criteria are an assumption that thousands of us have determined are false.

Second, some of us have been trying to figure out a reasonable scenario, but determined that the current constraints are too restrictive.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:29PM

Since my kids are years away from high school, I don't have a preference for where my neighborhood ends up (given the options in the study) -- Oakton and Chantilly are both great schools, and actually I think being in the Oakton district might improve the value of our home a bit. But I am not one for throwing others under the bus so I can get what I want. I think what's being done to Fox Mill and Floris is horibly unfair, and the whole process has been nauseating to witness. To me it seems that the school board cares little to nothing about providing a quality education and cares very much about preserving their precious reputation as a high performing, progressive school district (which, as we can see, is an illusion -- this whole thing is a shell game designed to cover up the fact that only the middle and upper income kids are actually performing well in Ffx. Schools).

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: VaDriver ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:30PM

Berdhuis…..wrote:

I would warn anyone against denigrating South Lakes as a school.
_---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or what will happen???? Maybe you didn't mean to "warn" concerning free speech..did you?

The only one with that power on this board is the webmaster.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:31PM

Make that "horribly" in line 3.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:31PM

Dear Navy,

I did not say what you think I said. I was merely pointing out that on the face of it, it could be argued that the redistricting has more support within the SL pyramid than the StopRD petition has in your area. Having said that, I don't think either sample is statistically valid, and should not be used here as indicators for or against support.

'Underperforming' is a relative term. I urge you to compare like scores at each school in the study. I think you will find that middle class students at SL perform as well or better than their counterparts at others schools. Does SL need to do a better job with it's disadvantaged students? Yes it does. Will redistricting help with that goal? Yes it will. Is the school already implementing measures to help it's under-performing students, irregardless of redistricting? Yes. Did I support Stu Gibson's re-election? If you had read my prior posts, you would know the answer to that question.

I'm glad you like how I think ;).

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Glarson ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:32PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy area parents: I do not understand why you
> lambaste South Lakes when your beef is that you
> want to stay with Chantilly. Why aren't you
> fighting that battle for yourselves?
>
> In fact, why didn't communities try to figure out
> what kinds of changes to the boundary scenarios
> would work for them AND for South Lakes under the
> constraints of this boundary study? What I have
> been hearing is what kids do -- whine about
> something they want but won't get, and end up
> having their parents make the decision for them.
>
> I think things could have been much different if
> somewhere in all this other communities had come
> up with reasonable scenarios. Instead, almost all
> the "talking points" they put out cried "not us,
> not us" and "IB is inferior" and "moratorium."
> That was not helpful, and they are facing the
> consequences.


Other communities didn't know that SL PTSA members were sneaking handshakes and swapping talking points with their buddy, Stu. Other communities voiced their concerns in the "public forums" that were the appropriate place for SB members to seek feedback on the study and the proposed alternatives. Other communities did figure out what changes they wanted. Are you DEAF??? NO CHANGES. Yes, other communities feel stupid now that they followed the publicized process, especially after seeing that they have been completely ignored by the SB. Other communities are sure Stu and the SL PTSA members snickered on their way out the back doors of Chantilly's, Westfield's and Oakton's gymnasiums. Stu sure will have his snickering well practiced for his final way out the SB's back door. Other communities hope the SL PTSA will be there to snicker with him.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:39PM

navy area parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since my kids are years away from high school, I
> don't have a preference for where my neighborhood
> ends up (given the options in the study) -- Oakton
> and Chantilly are both great schools, and actually
> I think being in the Oakton district might improve
> the value of our home a bit. But I am not one for
> throwing others under the bus so I can get what I
> want.

Why are Fox Mill and Floris getting thrown under a bus if the County is doing a great job of educating middle and upper income students, even at South Lakes as it currently exists? Will they not get a quality education at SL, as their peers already are?

To me it seems
> that the school board cares little to nothing
> about providing a quality education and cares very
> much about preserving their precious reputation as
> a high performing, progressive school district
> (which, as we can see, is an illusion -- this
> whole thing is a shell game designed to cover up
> the fact that only the middle and upper income
> kids are actually performing well in Ffx.
> Schools).

What if the SB is trying, with this redistricting, to provide a quality education for all of it's students, not just the middle and upper income ones? Would you support that?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:42PM

VaDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis…..wrote:
>
> I would warn anyone against denigrating South
> Lakes as a school.
> _-------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
>
> Or what will happen???? Maybe you didn't mean to
> "warn" concerning free speech..did you?
>
> The only one with that power on this board is the
> webmaster.

Here is what will happen to someone who denigrates South Lakes as a school:
That person will strengthen personal cynicism and be made blind to more positive aspects of the school. This is a form of self-deception, and can infect other people, too. I was warning people away from that.

No, I would never warn someone against free speech.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:50PM

Glarson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Other communities didn't know that SL PTSA members
> were sneaking handshakes and swapping talking
> points with their buddy, Stu. Other communities
> voiced their concerns in the "public forums" that
> were the appropriate place for SB members to seek
> feedback on the study and the proposed
> alternatives. Other communities did figure out
> what changes they wanted.

Please don't be disingenuous. 'Other' communities met privately with incoming SB members, including Tina Hone and Jim Raney, in an effort to influence the process. Other communities have spoken with their own SB members. 'Other communities have been able to submit suggestions to the SB via public meetings and the websites, just like South Lakes parents and citizens have. South Lakes offered constructive ideas, while some vocal people in 'other' communities dug in their heels and plugged up their ears and chanted. I have to say that I did not encounter many of them in my breakout meetings, though. Most people from 'other' communities in the meetings I attended offered constructive comments, some that even helped South Lakes and supported Option 5, and I assume that they were read by SB staff.

Yes, other communities feel stupid now
> that they followed the publicized process,
> especially after seeing that they have been
> completely ignored by the SB. Other communities
> are sure Stu and the SL PTSA members snickered on
> their way out the back doors of Chantilly's,
> Westfield's and Oakton's gymnasiums. Stu sure
> will have his snickering well practiced for his
> final way out the SB's back door. Other
> communities hope the SL PTSA will be there to
> snicker with him.

People now complaining about the process and the fairness remind me of those who constantly call our President stupid and then get beaten every time they play high-stakes poker with him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2008 02:13PM by SLVerity.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris ()
Date: January 02, 2008 01:53PM

SLVerity,
What makes you think SLH's need weights more than others? The current propose is very unfair to the Floris communities. Previous poor planning can not be the excuses for future poor planning.

Let's say, you get all your wishes. In a few years SLH becomes a shining star and people with kids are moving in all those new developement and 'aged' communities. All of sudden, 'due to incorrect projections', SLH becomes overcrowded (because there is no buffer at all), do you think there could be another redistricting, meant to shuffle Floris to another HS to, perhaps to boost its performance and adjust the declining enrollment?

I think no one disagrees that SLH needs help, But Floris/Fox Mill/McNair are all the victms because they becomes Stu's easy prey while no one else in the board will speak for them whole heartly. But that doesn't make it the right decision. It is not rational to rush for a redistricting, giving the inadequate research, flawed boundary scope/study.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:06PM

"SLH becomes overcrowded." I doubt very, very much that the "buffer" issue is one anyone who is against redistricting really gives a whit about. They could care less about South Lakes, so why should we believe them when they make any kind of argument about what's "good" for that school? As if they cared!

Ask Chantilly parents whether they care that their kids are in trailers. Westfield parents don't care that their kids go to an enormous school. Fine. But don't turn that argument around and stick it to South Lakes.

(South Lakes parents would be fine with trailers if that was ever a need. They've lived with 'em for the last three years, plus with half the school grounds gone because of the renovation. A trailer or two in 16 years when the toll road metro line is done -- we can live with that.)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:09PM

I think SL is already a little gem and has the potential to be a shining star. I also think the schools surrounding it are shining stars and hope that they continue to be so. I don't think that an improved South Lakes means the decline of any other school, so I don't foresee the problems that you do. I do think the current buffer is adequate, particularly because the housing stock in Reston is not changing;it is already built out and future development is not for families.

I do feel sorry for people in the Floris area, because geographically they are isolated from all high schools, which puts them at risk for redistricting every time it comes up. However, South Lakes is within close proximity, so I think that is where those students will remain.

No one can say what will happen 10 or 12 years down the road. At one point, we thought that all of Reston would attend South Lakes, but that did not happen, and our community has been split since around 1994.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:10PM

SLVerity Wrote:

>
> Why are Fox Mill and Floris getting thrown under a
> bus if the County is doing a great job of
> educating middle and upper income students, even
> at South Lakes as it currently exists? Will they
> not get a quality education at SL, as their peers
> already are?
>

Until SL offers a full schedule of AP, they will remain an inferior school when it comes to college admissions. That's a fact. Additionally, Fox Mill and Floris parents have real concerns about safety at SL -- you can offer all the anecdotes you want about the kids you know who have never witnessed a fight or weapons violation, but the numbers don't lie.

But the biggest reason I feel Floris and Fox Mill are being "thrown under the bus" is the way this process has played out: The omisson of Langley from the study. The total unresponsiveness and run-around given them by the school board. The apparent collaboration between SL PTSA and the board. The fact that they postponed the meetings until AFTER the elections. It looks to even the most casual observer like the deal was cut beforehand, and this is all a charade to give the illusion of public input. People outside of Reston overwhelmingly oppose the current boundary study and have shown up in numbers to the meetings, yet the school board continues to ignore their input in favor of what they feel "must be done." It's outrageous.

> What if the SB is trying, with this redistricting,
> to provide a quality education for all of it's
> students, not just the middle and upper income
> ones? Would you support that?

I don't think that's what they are trying to do. If they were, they'd already be outlining how they will add a full AP curriculum to the South Lakes course offerings. They'd also be addressing parents' real concerns instead of deflecting all questions and criticism about the process and potential outcomes. They'd be considering the many alternatives put forth by parents right here on this site. But the fix is in and Fox Mill/Floris are getting screwed.

To be perfectly honest, I'm sure South Lakes is a decent high school and that the FM/Floris kids will do fine there in the long term if it comes to that, after the inital adjustment period. I know their parents will do all they can to make sure of that. But the way this entire process has played out is horrifying. I am ashamed to live in Fairfax County right now, since our school board is a corrupt embarrassment.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:16PM

Re "talking points." I have seen five sets from five different school communities. Franklin Farm organized as early as APRIL. Fox Mill, Herndon, and McNair all had "talking points" posted on websites and some of them were hand-delivered to mailboxes. Everyone was in this from the beginning. The South Lakes group got its set together as late as November -- after several others did. (Has anyone seen who on the McNair and Herndon groups are also PTA members, BTW? Might be interesting to see that overlap. Not that it means a thing.)

The fact is, the latest scenario meets all eight criteria best of the five presented and affects the fewest people. Anyone could have seen that if they'd spent more time working on what would work and less on calling for a moratorium or for things outside the scope. The school administration followed the same boundary process it always does -- there is no secret to it.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:21PM

Oh geeze. Navy Area Parent is still carrying mace every time she comes to Reston. I'm sorry for her. What a way to live. There is a certain president who has tried to instill fear and loathing in every American, based on pure chimeras. Little does he know how far his reach has gone.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:27PM

Dear navy area parent:

Thank you for your comments. I do have to rebut a couple of things.

>
> Until SL offers a full schedule of AP, they will
> remain an inferior school when it comes to college
> admissions. That's a fact.

Please site your facts. South Lakes students are admitted to great universities all the time (my own two attend UVa). Just go to the SL PTSA website to see the listing of admissions.

Additionally, Fox
> Mill and Floris parents have real concerns about
> safety at SL -- you can offer all the anecdotes
> you want about the kids you know who have never
> witnessed a fight or weapons violation, but the
> numbers don't lie.

This has been discussed here many times. My children, there from 2003 - 2007, never personally witnessed a fight and only heard about two. Have there been one or two fights at the other schools over the span of 5 years? Please visit during school hours and see for yourselves. It's a great place. The numbers don't lie because the administration honestly reports every single incident, unlike some other schools.

>
> But the biggest reason I feel Floris and Fox Mill
> are being "thrown under the bus" is the way this
> process has played out: The omisson of Langley
> from the study. The total unresponsiveness and
> run-around given them by the school board. The
> apparent collaboration between SL PTSA and the
> board.

Saying there was collaboration does not make it so, and you should be careful not to repeat gossip and innuendo. I think it unfairly taints the process and personally know it to not be true.

People outside of
> Reston overwhelmingly oppose the current boundary
> study and have shown up in numbers to the
> meetings, yet the school board continues to ignore
> their input in favor of what they feel "must be
> done." It's outrageous.

A majority of people in my breakout session supported Option 5, including parents from other school districts (actually there were only two SL parents in my room out of 23 total).

I am truly sorry that the process has made you think so cynically about the leadership of the SB. And BTW, we don't think the SB is perfect either. If they were, they would not have made decisions in the past that negatively affected South Lakes. We happen to think that they are trying to remedy some of them now, and that the fixes are long overdue.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:29PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (Has anyone seen who on the McNair and
> Herndon groups are also PTA members, BTW? Might be
> interesting to see that overlap. Not that it means
> a thing.)

I'm on the McNair group, but not a PTA member. I am aware of one on the PTA, and guess that there are others - can't validate the others, though.

I'll add that the McNair group reluctantly approves the School Board's option #5, as it was the only option that did not move us away from Westfield, among other reasons. But let no one confuse that with advocacy, as we determined that the scope was too limited for an equally beneficial solution for all parties. A change in scope would go a long way to gain more popular support.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:31PM

Now it's Bush's fault people oppose redistricting? Wow, is there anything that man ISN'T responsible for?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:34PM

How would a change in scope be more beneficial to those living in McNair? (I know other communities might consider it beneficial to them because they could argue against being moved.) Just wondering.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:36PM

SLHS Padre - your comment in response to VA Driver's description of events at a local gathering reflects the nature of the problem and why a sound debate is not taking place. The people at VA Driver's meeting are very likely just as Va Driver relates - very bright - educated - and running across a reasonable swath of the political spectrum. And while I don't share in the fatalism of the liberal couple as related by Va Driver as to SLHS, it does not surprise me that certain parents of all political stripes view SLHS as a relative failure, and the mere fact that ideas unpopular to you should not mean that the comments are horsepoop. In fact, if one takes the oft repeated shibboleth that less advantaged students do better when they are placed in environments with only minor concentrations of such students, there is an unemotional, economically sound argument that closing SLHS may be the most efficient thing to do. This line of inquiry doesn't take into account the importance of a local high school to a community, and thus it may be suspect, but it does at some economic level make some sense to at least consider the prospect of closing the school and redistributing students equitably (i.e., income, etc.) to other schools - especially if one believes the redistributionist mantra.

OK - this obviously an offensive idea to SLHS supporters - but this type of decision is one that most everyone of us sees in business and government on a routine basis, and frankly, like it or not, SLHS twenty year track record invites these kinds of inquiries. Now, let's be clear, I personally don't think closing the school is the right idea, but I certainly, if I were inclined to be a SLHS supporter, would articulate a defense that rises to more than crude aspersions. Even if you disagree with them, these generally are bright and intelligent and educated people that are raising these ideas, and it would be helpful to engage in fact based, intelligent debate. The "name calling" lends itself to an aura of entitlement - hardly welcoming or intellectually vital.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:37PM

navy area parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now it's Bush's fault people oppose redistricting?
> Wow, is there anything that man ISN'T responsible
> for?

I told you he is clever. Don't play high-stakes poker with him!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:38PM

truthbetold says: "The school administration followed the same boundary process it always does -- there is no secret to it."

Not quite.

#1. Decisions on scoping were done in secret.
#2. First meeting was held in November, after the election, when they way its always been done before was to do the first meeting in October.
#3. The second and third meetings did not offer face to face discussion with the people responsible.

There are scenarios that meet the criteria even better, for example by putting fewer students into South Lakes, rather than placing more at SL than Herndon or Oakton, which both have more than 200+ student capacity. (Basically, it just moves extra capacity around between schools.) And if you could include Madison and Langley, you can get some dramatically improved results in terms of reducing moves, improving demographics, reducing travel, reducing physical overcrowding, and more equitable demographics.

I would feel that South Lakes parents were being more objective if they would push harder for a full slate of AP classes at the new, improved South Lakes. You say you want equity...why not offer it? That would also reduce outplacements and get you more advanced students right away, vs. waiting for rising 9th graders.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:41PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear navy area parent:
>
> Thank you for your comments. I do have to rebut a
> couple of things.
>
> >
> > Until SL offers a full schedule of AP, they
> will
> > remain an inferior school when it comes to
> college
> > admissions. That's a fact.
>
> Please site your facts. South Lakes students are
> admitted to great universities all the time (my
> own two attend UVa). Just go to the SL PTSA
> website to see the listing of admissions.

AP is the gold standard in the US. I'm not saying you can't put together a great college application with IB on it as opposed to AP, but the norm is AP. Plus, AP is much more flexible -- you can take one test or many for college credit and nearly every school will accept it. IB requires a full courseload of IB classes before you can earn their special diploma and get recognition for it.

> Additionally, Fox
> > Mill and Floris parents have real concerns
> about
> > safety at SL -- you can offer all the anecdotes
> > you want about the kids you know who have never
> > witnessed a fight or weapons violation, but the
> > numbers don't lie.
>
> This has been discussed here many times. My
> children, there from 2003 - 2007, never personally
> witnessed a fight and only heard about two. Have
> there been one or two fights at the other schools
> over the span of 5 years? Please visit during
> school hours and see for yourselves. It's a great
> place. The numbers don't lie because the
> administration honestly reports every single
> incident, unlike some other schools.
>

Exactly which school are you accusing of lying about the numbers? Do you have evidence to back that up?

> >
> > But the biggest reason I feel Floris and Fox
> Mill
> > are being "thrown under the bus" is the way
> this
> > process has played out: The omisson of Langley
> > from the study. The total unresponsiveness and
> > run-around given them by the school board. The
> > apparent collaboration between SL PTSA and the
> > board.
>
> Saying there was collaboration does not make it
> so, and you should be careful not to repeat gossip
> and innuendo. I think it unfairly taints the
> process and personally know it to not be true.

Then why was option 5 posted on the SL PTSA website before it was ever released by the SB?


> People outside of
> > Reston overwhelmingly oppose the current
> boundary
> > study and have shown up in numbers to the
> > meetings, yet the school board continues to
> ignore
> > their input in favor of what they feel "must be
> > done." It's outrageous.
>
> A majority of people in my breakout session
> supported Option 5, including parents from other
> school districts (actually there were only two SL
> parents in my room out of 23 total).

Were those parents from Floris or Fox Mill?

>
> I am truly sorry that the process has made you
> think so cynically about the leadership of the SB.
> And BTW, we don't think the SB is perfect either.
> If they were, they would not have made decisions
> in the past that negatively affected South Lakes.
> We happen to think that they are trying to remedy
> some of them now, and that the fixes are long
> overdue.

I hope they can succeed without negatively impacting innocent children in the process.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:47PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How would a change in scope be more beneficial to
> those living in McNair? (I know other communities
> might consider it beneficial to them because they
> could argue against being moved.) Just wondering.

Many of us would be satisfied if all of South Lakes' neighbors were given the opportunity to help rebuild the school.

Here's a question for SL:
I estimated that roughly 20 former McNair students a year fail their 8th grade Reading (2002 standard) SOL tests at Rachel Carson. If they were to enter South Lakes instead, what additional resources would be necessary to educate them to a passing level? Specifically, how many more teachers, what kind of teachers, how many more classrooms, etc. at SL would be needed?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:52PM

Quantum,

I am disappointed in you. Please lighten up! Padre provides great comic foil to some of the things posted here that are, shall we say, over the top. I can't help but think that in other circumstances you would find fault with some of the things that were said at VADriver's party, where it has been admitted that Clos du Bois and other fine alcoholic beverages were consumed and logic and reason may have been suspended just a tad.

Just where would you place the South Lakes students? Madison and Langley are overcrowded. Herndon has room for around 100. Oakton has room for very few. The same for Westfield. Chantilly is overcrowded. What would be done with the beautifully renovated facility that we all paid for?

What brings you to the conclusion that South Lakes is indeed a failed experiment? My conservative bona fides aside, my kids had a fine education there, actually had some conservative-thinking teachers, despite what many seem to think, and learned at SL that it is ok to challenge the establishment at their fine university when they don't agree with what is being said. Additionally, they do feel that they have a leg up when it comes to wearing the shoes of others, and think that it will allow them to be good leaders of the next generation.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:52PM

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre - your comment in response to VA
> Driver's description of events at a local
> gathering reflects the nature of the problem and
> why a sound debate is not taking place. The
> people at VA Driver's meeting are very likely just
> as Va Driver relates - very bright - educated -
> and running across a reasonable swath of the
> political spectrum. And while I don't share in
> the fatalism of the liberal couple as related by
> Va Driver as to SLHS, it does not surprise me that
> certain parents of all political stripes view SLHS
> as a relative failure, and the mere fact that
> ideas unpopular to you should not mean that the
> comments are horsepoop. In fact, if one takes the
> oft repeated shibboleth that less advantaged
> students do better when they are placed in
> environments with only minor concentrations of
> such students, there is an unemotional,
> economically sound argument that closing SLHS may
> be the most efficient thing to do. This line of
> inquiry doesn't take into account the importance
> of a local high school to a community, and thus it
> may be suspect, but it does at some economic level
> make some sense to at least consider the prospect
> of closing the school and redistributing students
> equitably (i.e., income, etc.) to other schools -
> especially if one believes the redistributionist
> mantra.
>
> OK - this obviously an offensive idea to SLHS
> supporters - but this type of decision is one that
> most everyone of us sees in business and
> government on a routine basis, and frankly, like
> it or not, SLHS twenty year track record invites
> these kinds of inquiries. Now, let's be clear, I
> personally don't think closing the school is the
> right idea, but I certainly, if I were inclined to
> be a SLHS supporter, would articulate a defense
> that rises to more than crude aspersions. Even
> if you disagree with them, these generally are
> bright and intelligent and educated people that
> are raising these ideas, and it would be helpful
> to engage in fact based, intelligent debate. The
> "name calling" lends itself to an aura of
> entitlement - hardly welcoming or intellectually
> vital.



I'll stand by my succinct comment.

VaDriver's post emanated whiffs of self-serving prophecies lacking factual merit. I could write a narrative on my New Years Eve party with a diametrically-opposed set of talking points, and I would receive -- and probably deserve - a similar response.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:53PM

Quantum: You have often brought up government and business modi operandi that might be considered vis-a-vis South Lakes, but I would caution that corporate standards for conducting business are not always as effective, efficient, or ethical as their proponents would like to espouse. Nevermind moral -- Corporate America is notoriously amoral. (A word I use without subscribing religious meaning to it.) Providing equal educational opportunity is in itself a moral goal. Equal opportunity is never a required corporate goal (only a requirement in hiring practices for those who accept EOE status).

Closing underperforming offices can have deleterious consequences on nearby offices when the aggregate performance levels are not considered. The work performed at the closed office that is necessary usually still has to be conducted, and now it is transfered to nearby sites, usually without a conomitant rise in resources.

But this is all hypothetical since South Lakes IS performing extremely well at nearly all levels. It is a matter of degree. Every school has a set of least-performing members. The range of performance might be greater at some schools, but the concentration of low-performing vs. high-performing students has to be considered, and sub-group averages should be calculated to determine the actual improvements. The fact is that every single school has a challenge making sure every single student performs well to begin with and, ideally, improves performance over time.

I would not compare public education to business practices. Business has too much to answer for.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:57PM

SLVerity,
You can think SHL is already a gem and you don't need to tell me that. But when it comes to where my kids go, be it public school or private, I make the decision. With the current hoop-la going on, if the school boards carries on, and if my kids were one of the 69 students forced to SLH with no adequate AP classes, then *for the best interest of my kids*, they'd be somewhere else. And thank you, I decide what's best for my kids.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 02:57PM

Berdhius wrote: "Here's a question for SL:
I estimated that roughly 20 former McNair students a year fail their 8th grade Reading (2002 standard) SOL tests at Rachel Carson. If they were to enter South Lakes instead, what additional resources would be necessary to educate them to a passing level? Specifically, how many more teachers, what kind of teachers, how many more classrooms, etc. at SL would be needed?"

Why isn't Rachel Carson succeeding with them? What does Westfield do?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:04PM

South Lakes parents decide what's best for their kids, too. But they go one step further -- they also work very, very hard to help ALL the kids, especially those with no vocal advocates. Not once have I heard anyone in the South Lakes Boundary Study Group saying "I'm spending all these hours working on redistricting just for MY kid." In fact, there are many parent alumni involved.

I would love to know who else from Wesetfield is fighting to keep Floris in the fold, if only because "it's the right thing to do."

I agree with SLV that Floris is in a tough spot because it is outside the proximity of several schools. If and when you become a part of South Lakes, you will find a tiger den waiting to defend you should anyone want to tear you away from us in the future!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:08PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why isn't Rachel Carson succeeding with them?

You're jumping to conclusions; there are 32 reading test failures at McNair in the 6th grade (out of roughly 100 test takers), so RC reduces that to 20 in the 8th.

> What does Westfield do?

I haven't done the estimates for 12th grade reading failures, so I can't answer that. I'll get back to you on that one.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Fox Mill Dad ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:08PM

I live in Fox Mill Estates and have ES age kids. I've been somewhat neutral as I would expect SL to be a much different school by the time my kids got there if redistricting goes through. Believe it or not, there really is some support for redistricting in this community, it hasn't all been manufactured by E.Castro and the SL PTSA (not looking for an argument, just making a purely anectodal observation).

My biggest concern is that once this goes through and we get into the SL pryamid the SB will redistrict us out of Carson MS and into Hughes. I've got nothing against Hughes but given the choice I wouldn't trade Carson for any middle school in the county. Does anyone have any insight into how middle school redistricting would work and under what timetable?

As far as the free speech posts above, I'll offer a more practical reason not to denigrate any school here. Not only do adult attitudes translate to their kids but this is a public message board that students and adults can view and post freely on. The fallout from this redistricting will be felt by our community's kids at their respective high schools next fall. If you want to keep dissing SL, just don't claim to speak for everyone in my community.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: A Baffled Citizen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:09PM

navy area parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
>
> >
> > Why are Fox Mill and Floris getting thrown under
> a
> > bus if the County is doing a great job of
> > educating middle and upper income students,
> even
> > at South Lakes as it currently exists? Will
> they
> > not get a quality education at SL, as their
> peers
> > already are?
> >
>
> Until SL offers a full schedule of AP, they will
> remain an inferior school when it comes to college
> admissions. That's a fact. Additionally, Fox
> Mill and Floris parents have real concerns about
> safety at SL -- you can offer all the anecdotes
> you want about the kids you know who have never
> witnessed a fight or weapons violation, but the
> numbers don't lie.
>
> But the biggest reason I feel Floris and Fox Mill
> are being "thrown under the bus" is the way this
> process has played out: The omisson of Langley
> from the study. The total unresponsiveness and
> run-around given them by the school board. The
> apparent collaboration between SL PTSA and the
> board. The fact that they postponed the meetings
> until AFTER the elections. It looks to even the
> most casual observer like the deal was cut
> beforehand, and this is all a charade to give the
> illusion of public input. People outside of
> Reston overwhelmingly oppose the current boundary
> study and have shown up in numbers to the
> meetings, yet the school board continues to ignore
> their input in favor of what they feel "must be
> done." It's outrageous.
>
> > What if the SB is trying, with this
> redistricting,
> > to provide a quality education for all of it's
> > students, not just the middle and upper income
> > ones? Would you support that?
>
> I don't think that's what they are trying to do.
> If they were, they'd already be outlining how they
> will add a full AP curriculum to the South Lakes
> course offerings. They'd also be addressing
> parents' real concerns instead of deflecting all
> questions and criticism about the process and
> potential outcomes. They'd be considering the
> many alternatives put forth by parents right here
> on this site. But the fix is in and Fox
> Mill/Floris are getting screwed.
>
> To be perfectly honest, I'm sure South Lakes is a
> decent high school and that the FM/Floris kids
> will do fine there in the long term if it comes to
> that, after the inital adjustment period. I know
> their parents will do all they can to make sure of
> that. But the way this entire process has played
> out is horrifying. I am ashamed to live in
> Fairfax County right now, since our school board
> is a corrupt embarrassment.


Amen to that, I am really upset at this whole boundary study process and ashamed to be living in Fairfax County, too. First of all, please members, think about this, who is suffering the most? It is our children who are students who are rising 9th graders and those already in high school and for them to witness the tug and war between communities about who is handpicked to go to that high school, etc. Students from the SL communities and students outside the SL communities who are being affected by the potential redistricting are being exposed to this...these communities (FM/Floris/McNair) are being handpicked at their expense to benefit the SL community, why them? WHY NOT the other two Reston schools communities who are in the Herndon High school district? It is like hmmm "We don't care what FM/Floris/McNair think or feel so they are being handpicked to go to SLHS". Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against SLHS, but it is the WHOLE boundary study that is WRONG particulary #5. This study is so constrictive. Somebody made a comment about #5 meeting all the 8 criteria of the study, why is that? Did this option #5 solve the Chantilly overcrowding problem? This is an absolute outrage.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:13PM

truthbetold Wrote:

> I agree with SLV that Floris is in a tough spot
> because it is outside the proximity of several
> schools. If and when you become a part of South
> Lakes, you will find a tiger den waiting to defend
> you should anyone want to tear you away from us in
> the future!

Do you really think this is true after all the bad blood on both sides of this issue? I find it difficult to believe SL kids are going to want anything to do with their new classmates after all that has been said. Which is a shame. The SL kids are the biggest victims in this whole process, in my opinion. So much drama that could have been avoided by the school board sticking to the official process and making it fair instead of playing politics.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:15PM

Is there a Chantilly overcrowding problem? Just asking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:16PM

navy area parent Wrote:

> >
>
> Exactly which school are you accusing of lying
> about the numbers? Do you have evidence to back
> that up? Not accusing anyone of lying. The reporting is totally subjective.

Some administrators are more rigorous with the reporting than others. A poster here said that the Madison principal has looked the other way with regard to the behavior of certain athletes. Is it true? I have no idea, but it does raise questions about the consistency in reporting.


> Then why was option 5 posted on the SL PTSA
> website before it was ever released by the SB?

I am not a member of the SL PTSA, nor am I even involved in the School any more, and I was one of the people who helped develop Option 5,as well as several recommendations for each and every other option presented after the first meeting. People involved in the process included parents of South Lakes alums, parents of elementary and pre-school aged children, parents of middle school children, parents of SL children, and parents not even living in the SL pyramid. The option was really just an offshoot of Option 3 that better met the criteria that the SB had laid out. Anyone could have come up with the plan, including Herndon, who did not want the other options, particularly Option 4.

It was not developed by the SL PTSA.

>
> Were those parents from Floris or Fox Mill?

We did not have any Fox Mill parents in my room. There were two or three Floris parents, and they were allowed to make comments voicing their opposition.

>
> I hope they can succeed without negatively
> impacting innocent children in the process.

Frankly, I think that in the long run no one will be negatively impacted. We should all wish for each and every school in Western Fairfax County to be a successful school. It will be better for all of us in the long run.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:19PM

A Baffled Citizen Wrote:
Did this option #5 solve the
> Chantilly overcrowding problem? This is an
> absolute outrage.

I don't know if it SOLVED the issue, but option 5 moves Navy ES district from Chantilly to Oakton. So it does address it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:20PM

navy area parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> truthbetold Wrote:
>
> > I agree with SLV that Floris is in a tough spot
> > because it is outside the proximity of several
> > schools. If and when you become a part of South
> > Lakes, you will find a tiger den waiting to
> defend
> > you should anyone want to tear you away from us
> in
> > the future!
>
> Do you really think this is true after all the bad
> blood on both sides of this issue? I find it
> difficult to believe SL kids are going to want
> anything to do with their new classmates after all
> that has been said. Which is a shame. The SL
> kids are the biggest victims in this whole
> process, in my opinion. So much drama that could
> have been avoided by the school board sticking to
> the official process and making it fair instead of
> playing politics.

Yes, I think that the SLHS kids and the rest of the community will warmly accept other kids, not as rescuers or reluctant refugees, but as fellow students who are welcome to join a great school in a newly-renovated building. The parents are also welcome any time.

The kids are baffled by the negative stuff, but proud of their school and ready to share the experience.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:20PM

There has been very little "bad blood" coming from South Lakes side, if any. How many times do we have to say that we will welcome everyone, no matter who it is? How many times have anti-redistricters said they would despise sending their kids to South Lakes?

And the fact is that it isn't the kids here -- I have yet to hear more than one or two non-SL kids really be nasty, and they were early on this post and not at all in the boundary meetings, and only a few on the Facebook group. Furthermore, those kids are current high schoolers and not likely to be affected.

(We know that even the most vehement anti-South-Lake adults will change their minds when they get to know the school. That's why there isn't much concern about "bad blood" cries coming from opponents.)

So the "bad blood" ball is back in the non-SL-adult court.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:22PM

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> You can think SHL is already a gem and you don't
> need to tell me that. But when it comes to where
> my kids go, be it public school or private, I make
> the decision. With the current hoop-la going on,
> if the school boards carries on, and if my kids
> were one of the 69 students forced to SLH with no
> adequate AP classes, then *for the best interest
> of my kids*, they'd be somewhere else. And thank
> you, I decide what's best for my kids.

I never intended to tell you where to send your kids, and would never presume to do so. If I lived in Floris and I were potentially being moved, I would be advocating for the addition of AP classes at South Lakes. But that would be me. I am not trying to tell you what to do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:25PM

My question about who at Westfield outside of Floris is fighting to keep Floris in Westfield hasn't been addressed. I really am curious.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:27PM

I'm with SLV on advocating to add AP classes at SLHS. But this should not be construed as REPLACING IB classes. IB stays. AP classes are added where needed. The entire AP program is not necessary because most IB classes match up with equivalent AP classes... But let's not saw that horse any more.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:30PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question about who at Westfield outside of
> Floris is fighting to keep Floris in Westfield
> hasn't been addressed. I really am curious.


Why does it matter?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:32PM

Navy: If you lived in Floris, wouldn't you want your high school to want you? I'd feel pretty lonesome if I lived there and my own high school wasn't making all kinds of arguments to keep me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:33PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question about who at Westfield outside of
> Floris is fighting to keep Floris in Westfield
> hasn't been addressed. I really am curious.

If you or someone else can validly answer my question on how McNair children will affect resources at South Lakes HS, then I will supply a validated answer to your question.

Fair?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:34PM

And Navy: Doesn't Chantilly want to keep you, despite trailers? That's why I asked whether overcrowding was really a problem there. Couldn't the school or its proponents argue that having Navy stay there is beneficial and that the trailer issue wasn't a big deal?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:35PM

Berdhuis: Are you McNair or Floris? McNair isn't affected by the latest scenario.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:36PM

Another Fox Mill Dad:

Thanks for your commments.
>
> My biggest concern is that once this goes through
> and we get into the SL pryamid the SB will
> redistrict us out of Carson MS and into Hughes.
> I've got nothing against Hughes but given the
> choice I wouldn't trade Carson for any middle
> school in the county. Does anyone have any
> insight into how middle school redistricting would
> work and under what timetable?
>
Not to diminish your love for Carson, and I'm sure it is a great school, but please note that Hughes has a new principal who is working very closely with the SL administration (she came from there) to make sure that the school prepares its children for all the rigors of high school. I have not heard any talk of middle school redistricting, but think of it this way: if Fox Mill kids were redistricted to Hughes at some point, their opportunity for melding with the SL community would happen sooner, and might be a real positive and a really good way to cement the pyramid spirit.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:40PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis: Are you McNair or Floris?

I am McNair, and so fit the criteria to answer your question.

> McNair isn't affected by the latest scenario.

That doesn't mean the SB will keep it this way.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:40PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy: If you lived in Floris, wouldn't you want
> your high school to want you? I'd feel pretty
> lonesome if I lived there and my own high school
> wasn't making all kinds of arguments to keep me.

That's just silly. So because Floris apparently isn't the "popular kid" (to use a high school metaphor) at Westfield, they should want to go to what they see as an inferior school just because that school wants them and would appreciate them more? Personal relationships don't even work that way, let alone real educational decisions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:51PM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> truthbetold Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why isn't Rachel Carson succeeding with them?
>
> You're jumping to conclusions; there are 32
> reading test failures at McNair in the 6th grade
> (out of roughly 100 test takers), so RC reduces
> that to 20 in the 8th.
>
> > What does Westfield do?
>
> I haven't done the estimates for 12th grade
> reading failures, so I can't answer that. I'll get
> back to you on that one.


I asked why Carson didn't succeed with the 20.

But the question of how to address achievement with ANY child, existing or new, at South Lakes or ANYWHERE is a good one. That is exactly what a very strong and vibrant community of parents is addressing now at South Lakes, along with an administration that has demonstrated substantive success with bringing along underachievers over the last three years.

How -- is a matter of many approaches. There is no one single one that works; each child is unique. We all know this. Some kids have disabilities, some have illiteracy at home, some have attitude issues (rarely if ever a character flaw -- they usually gain these 'tudes from adults), some haven't had the academic preparation they needed, most simply need a chance to succeed where they are given good support to do so. List goes on.

Re programs, some schools have "lunch & learn" or something similar where an extra half hour is built into the day and kids use this to get help from teachers, complete assignments, take makeup tests, and even go to club meetings. It is an extraordinarily successful program where it exists. Some high schools have robust volunteer programs where parents come in to help with reading and math. Etc.

I may not have answered your question -- how South Lakes does it vs. other schools I couldn't possibly say because I'm not familiar with the intricacies of neighboring schools. Perhaps this would be a good question to ask the school administration. I'm sure many parents who care about underachieving kids coming from their redistricted neighborhoods would want to know.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:53PM

truthbetold:

You're not helping the debate by implying that Floris is a scorned child of Westfield.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2008 04:32PM by Berdhuis.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Fox Mill Dad ()
Date: January 02, 2008 03:54PM

SLVerity,

Thanks for the quick reply but I really wasn't looking for the brochure on Hughes just yet, I was just wondering if I'm ultimately giving up two schools instead of just one. Maybe that did kind of answer the question though :(

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 02, 2008 04:03PM

Another Fox Mill Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
>
> Thanks for the quick reply but I really wasn't
> looking for the brochure on Hughes just yet, I was
> just wondering if I'm ultimately giving up two
> schools instead of just one. Maybe that did kind
> of answer the question though :(


As far as I know, Hughes is not undercapacity, so there are no plans to redistrict there.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy ()
Date: January 02, 2008 04:06PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy area parents: I do not understand why you
> lambaste South Lakes when your beef is that you
> want to stay with Chantilly. Why aren't you
> fighting that battle for yourselves?
>
>
No one from Navy is trying to put down South Lakes. Why do you suggest we are? Actually, many of the communities are working very hard to stay at Chantilly. Some of us have even suggested some alternate scenarios to FCPS. We're just not posting them on any websites. Don't for one moment think we're just sitting by watching this happen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Madison ()
Date: January 02, 2008 04:13PM

This is mainly to address two points that Navy Area Parent raised:
1. I’m a junior, so I’m looking at colleges and I haven’t found AP to be any sort of “gold standard”. Most of the time the credits available for AP and IB tests are the same. Also, for certain majors, it is required to take the classes at the university whether you took AP or IB.
2. Also, as a student at SL, I haven’t felt that there is any “bad blood” between the SL students and the students at other schools. The only animosity I’ve noticed has been directed towards the parents at other schools who continue to insult SL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 04:37PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But the question of how to address achievement
> with ANY child, existing or new, at South Lakes or
> ANYWHERE is a good one. That is exactly what a
> very strong and vibrant community of parents is
> addressing now at South Lakes, along with an
> administration that has demonstrated substantive
> success with bringing along underachievers over
> the last three years.

Then can South Lakes do the same for the children of McNair?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Glarson ()
Date: January 02, 2008 05:06PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I agree with SLV that Floris is in a tough spot
> because it is outside the proximity of several
> schools. If and when you become a part of South
> Lakes, you will find a tiger den waiting to defend
> you should anyone want to tear you away from us in
> the future!


I see, just like the tigers have been unleashed to get those 80 or so kids back who pupil place out of SL, or those others who choose to go to private school. The tiger's den performance is really more like a mouse hole especially when fighting to get those North Reston kids into SL or those others from Aldrin or Armstrong. Sorry, but most don't feel the love.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 02, 2008 05:28PM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would warn anyone against denigrating South
> Lakes as a school. I personally am friends with a
> couple of middle-class families whose children
> attend SL, and I can vouch that they are receiving
> an excellent and fulfilling education. Past
> graduates of theirs wound up in highly competitive
> universities. Also, they are very involved in
> extra-curricular activities and sports, and none
> to my observation conduct or dress themselves as
> members of any 'gangsta' or otherwise sub,
> criminal or irreverent culture.
>
> There is nothing to be feared.

I can't speak for all Fox Mill parents, but I don't think that most FME families fear SL. A few I guess, but not most. Some FME families are okay with SL, but most prefer to stay with Oakton. We prefer Oakton for a variety of reasons, but fearing SL would be at the bottom of the list.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 02, 2008 06:27PM

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't speak for all Fox Mill parents, but I
> don't think that most FME families fear SL. A few
> I guess, but not most. Some FME families are okay
> with SL, but most prefer to stay with Oakton. We
> prefer Oakton for a variety of reasons, but
> fearing SL would be at the bottom of the list.

That's my impression, too. I was addressing those who had earlier posted their hypothetical fear of letting their children associate with those of South Lakes. It's pretty silly, really.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: January 02, 2008 06:33PM

"Most people in my chair will say that IB is wonderful. I am not one of those," said Charles Deacon, Georgetown's dean of undergraduate admissions. "The AP program has been in effect for a very long time. It's got a very rigorous curriculum design, and it covers the subject matter we want to see, and it's scored on a rigorous basis, whereas in IB, it's not quite as rigorous."

From By Ian Shapira
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 25, 2007; A01

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fox Mill Estate Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 06:58PM

I tried to find some positive solution for resloving the competing interests. Just some additional observations.

1. Langston Hughes would benefit if "South Lakes Gifted and Talented" were next door. The Gifted and Talented School could operate as a conduit for encouraging children at Langston Hughes to excell in academics. The gifted and talented children could be involved in community service operations for Reston.

I know of another school in Bronx New York where a high school was opened up on the grounds of a community college there --I thought it was a smart idea then. I do not see why this couldn't work in Reston.

2. The property value issue, I think, carries some weight. We are speaking about "lifting" values in communities surrounding South Lakes High School without doing anything more than changing the nature of the school. Instead of folks wishing to flee the South Lakes District, they will be applying to send their children to attend "South Lakes Gifted and Talented."

3. The students who make up the brightest of children in Western Fairfax will be applying to attend South Lakes and thereby reducing the number of children attending the overcrowded schools.

I still think this is the best solution --from what I have read here. It is a "can do" attitude. It is positive. It helps people.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 08:00PM

After reviewing this post for many hours, it seems apparent that there will never be a 100% concensus on this possible boundary change. All of the 1st 4 alternate boundaries had flaws, and this 5th and latest proposal also has many flaws. I do not know what the best solution is, given the tight constraints that have been put in place by the SB.

What is very apparent, is that the families that have ties to SL really seem to like their school, and with the $60,000,000 makeover, it should be an even better environment for the students to learn. I feel that it is very important for communities to take pride in their local high schools, and as you can see, almost all of us have become very involved in our students and our own High schools.

I truly believe that most of the families in the Fox Mill, Floris, Madison and Navy communities do not harbor bad feelings towards SL or the students who attend the school. It is just that most take the same pride and enjoy the sense of being a part of the school that we already attend.

I am sure that if the situation were different, and the SB decided to break up SL, and ship your children off to other schools, many in the SL community would feel the same pain and frustration that we are going through. None of the impacted communities created the situation that SL has now, and many of us feel that the SB has full responsibility for the state of SL as it relates to capacity issues.

We all have done due diligence in determining where we want to live, and where we want our children to attend school, just as those of you who live in the SL area chose your community and where you wanted your children to attend school.

I am still confused as to why this boundary study needs to be done NOW. SL has been under capacity for at least 5 or 6 years, and maybe with the brand new building, more families will "choose" to move to Reston and send their children to SL.

If we can postpone this study for a year, the school board can prepare a much broader study, to include other the "other" schools that are also over capacity, as well as set boundary lines for the new Coppermine Elementary School that will open in 2009.

I really hope that the SB is working in good faith to hear the concerns of all citizens before making this big decision. I will truly feel bad if the deck was stacked before this entire process began, and I hope that the SB will be forthcoming with truthful information as to why and how the criteria was set for the study.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: samgee ()
Date: January 02, 2008 08:05PM

Imagine pouring 60 million USD into a high school and you
still cannot raise standardized test scores. What to do next so
you dont look stupid - import middle class kids but make sure that
they are not "Langley rich" so there wont be a run on private schools
therefore defeating your purpose.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fox Mill Estates Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 08:10PM

Addendum to my post above.

The "South Lakes Gifted and TAlented" idea is not my idea. It is the idea posted by others that made the most sense to me given some of the other issues raised by other posters.

I am not implying that Reston is the Bronx. I know. I went to that Bronx Community College that I wrote of.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: January 02, 2008 08:21PM

samgee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Imagine pouring 60 million USD into a high school
> and you
> still cannot raise standardized test scores. What
> to do next so
> you dont look stupid - import middle class kids
> but make sure that
> they are not "Langley rich" so there wont be a run
> on private schools
> therefore defeating your purpose.


Yeah. Imagine:

"Several Fairfax County high schools—including South Lakes High, Mount Vernon High, Marshall High, and Stuart High—have made large, statistically significant gains on their 2007 SAT scores, according to figures released today by Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) Superintendent Jack D. Dale (See table 4)......

Students at South Lakes High made the most impressive SAT gains, raising their school’s average Critical Reading score by 15 points, their school’s average Mathematics score by 12 points, and their school’s average Writing score by 19 points......

FCPS, August 28, 2007

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: January 02, 2008 08:34PM

samgee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Imagine pouring 60 million USD into a high school
> and you
> still cannot raise standardized test scores. What
> to do next so
> you dont look stupid - import middle class kids
> but make sure that
> they are not "Langley rich" so there wont be a run
> on private schools
> therefore defeating your purpose.

private schools are pretty full and Strauss doesn't believe in sending anyone to Herndon or South Lakes from Langley. Are these boundaries, exclusions, all at increased cost to us all even legal? ..meanwhile in Mclean this happened to some kid over Christmas -
http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/jan/02/mclean-youth-savagely-beaten-christmas-eve/

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: January 02, 2008 08:34PM

All IB schools, btw.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Fox Mill Dad ()
Date: January 02, 2008 08:51PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent wrote:
---------------------------------------------

>As far as I know, Hughes is not undercapacity, so there are no plans to redistrict there.


Why would Hughes be at or near capacity while SL is well beneath it? Hughes has around 840 students in 7&8th grade which would translate into roughly 1680 students at a 9-12 school. Where do those approx 200 students go?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 02, 2008 08:55PM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After reviewing this post for many hours, it seems
> apparent that there will never be a 100% concensus
> on this possible boundary change. All of the 1st 4
> alternate boundaries had flaws, and this 5th and
> latest proposal also has many flaws. I do not know
> what the best solution is, given the tight
> constraints that have been put in place by the SB.
>
>
> What is very apparent, is that the families that
> have ties to SL really seem to like their school,
> and with the $60,000,000 makeover, it should be an
> even better environment for the students to learn.
> I feel that it is very important for communities
> to take pride in their local high schools, and as
> you can see, almost all of us have become very
> involved in our students and our own High
> schools.
>
> I truly believe that most of the families in the
> Fox Mill, Floris, Madison and Navy communities do
> not harbor bad feelings towards SL or the students
> who attend the school. It is just that most take
> the same pride and enjoy the sense of being a part
> of the school that we already attend.
>
> I am sure that if the situation were different,
> and the SB decided to break up SL, and ship your
> children off to other schools, many in the SL
> community would feel the same pain and frustration
> that we are going through. None of the impacted
> communities created the situation that SL has now,
> and many of us feel that the SB has full
> responsibility for the state of SL as it relates
> to capacity issues.
>
> We all have done due diligence in determining
> where we want to live, and where we want our
> children to attend school, just as those of you
> who live in the SL area chose your community and
> where you wanted your children to attend school.
>
> I am still confused as to why this boundary study
> needs to be done NOW. SL has been under capacity
> for at least 5 or 6 years, and maybe with the
> brand new building, more families will "choose" to
> move to Reston and send their children to SL.
>
> If we can postpone this study for a year, the
> school board can prepare a much broader study, to
> include other the "other" schools that are also
> over capacity, as well as set boundary lines for
> the new Coppermine Elementary School that will
> open in 2009.
>
> I really hope that the SB is working in good faith
> to hear the concerns of all citizens before making
> this big decision. I will truly feel bad if the
> deck was stacked before this entire process began,
> and I hope that the SB will be forthcoming with
> truthful information as to why and how the
> criteria was set for the study.



I agree with everything you've said. One thing, I suspect that even if Langley and Madison had been considered in this study, ultimately they wouldn't have been
affected. Of course, it would be harder to justify an expansion at Langley at the same time that Westfield and Chantilly, while large, don't need expansions to handle their enrollment. I guess Chantilly has trailers, so I'm not sure how that is calculated, but it isn't getting an expansion, unlike Langley.

I guess I'm more cynical, because I think this deck was stacked, and the more I learn, the more convinced I am.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: for crying out loud ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:12PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy area parents: I do not understand why you
> lambaste South Lakes when your beef is that you
> want to stay with Chantilly. Why aren't you
> fighting that battle for yourselves?
>
> In fact, why didn't communities try to figure out
> what kinds of changes to the boundary scenarios
> would work for them AND for South Lakes under the
> constraints of this boundary study? What I have
> been hearing is what kids do -- whine about
> something they want but won't get, and end up
> having their parents make the decision for them.
>
> I think things could have been much different if
> somewhere in all this other communities had come
> up with reasonable scenarios. Instead, almost all
> the "talking points" they put out cried "not us,
> not us" and "IB is inferior" and "moratorium."
> That was not helpful, and they are facing the
> consequences.

How is SL's position any different than Navy's? All you want is give me give me give and poor me. Just leave us alone. There is absolutely NO reason to redistrict us. We are not overcrowded and are quite pleased with our school, short commute and fabulous community. That's why we bought in this neighborhood and not South Lakes

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Madison ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:23PM

To Another Fox Mill Dad
I went to Hughes, and some kids there later go to Madison, Herndon and TJ. The Herndon and Madison kids are there for GT. I don’t know the exact numbers, but not all kids at Hughes go to SL.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:26PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All IB schools, btw.

And scores at two AP schools in the boundary study dropped significantly. Scores go up and down at all schools.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: for crying out loud ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:27PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The fact is, the latest scenario meets all eight
> criteria best of the five presented and affects
> the fewest people. Anyone could have seen that if
> they'd spent more time working on what would work
> and less on calling for a moratorium or for things
> outside the scope. The school administration
> followed the same boundary process it always does
> -- there is no secret to it.

The school admin did NOT follow the same process. It met with the public after the elections. And option 5 is nothing but a disadvantage for navy students: longer commute, still has a split elementary school, does not truly affect "overcrowding" and if this process so significantly negatively affects a group of students, and certain communities were left out of the study, than NO, this option does NOT meet criteria and should be changed.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:29PM

taxpayer,

That's terrible.....meanwhile in Mclean this happened to
> some kid over Christmas -

Poor kid.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: for crying out loud ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:33PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there a Chantilly overcrowding problem? Just
> asking.

NO......as stated by Dean Tistadt and Kathy Smith.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:35PM

SLgirl917, you've got mail.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Sad Reality ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:42PM

All of this fallout is a result of the School Board and the SL PTSA desire to have South Lakes High School "look better" by adding "advantaged" students who will, they pray, do better on reportable tests which will help justify the 60 million spent to renovate. Thats it....

They don't care about the hundreds of children and their parents...which equals thousands...they are impacting.

And, I heard the School Board Member in charge of this mess, Stu Gibson, works as an attorney for the Department of Justice. Go figure.

Need to reach out to the Board of Supervisors.....they have some control over the school board but not much.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fox Mill Estates Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:54PM

Could somone please point me to the various options. I do not recall which options do what. Thank you. (I assume turning South Lakes into a TJ West isn't an option.)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 09:55PM

Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could somone please point me to the various
> options. I do not recall which options do what.
> Thank you. (I assume turning South Lakes into a
> TJ West isn't an option.)

Go to fcps.edu and click on boundary studies.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:06PM

navy area parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since my kids are years away from high school, I
> don't have a preference for where my neighborhood
> ends up (given the options in the study) -- Oakton
> and Chantilly are both great schools, and actually
> I think being in the Oakton district might improve
> the value of our home a bit. But I am not one for
> throwing others under the bus so I can get what I
> want. I think what's being done to Fox Mill and
> Floris is horibly unfair, and the whole process
> has been nauseating to witness. To me it seems
> that the school board cares little to nothing
> about providing a quality education and cares very
> much about preserving their precious reputation as
> a high performing, progressive school district
> (which, as we can see, is an illusion -- this
> whole thing is a shell game designed to cover up
> the fact that only the middle and upper income
> kids are actually performing well in Ffx.
> Schools).

You've nailed it! Kids with parents who help out with homework, pay for tutors and academic academic, with frequent trips to the library, will continue to do well while FCPS scuffles the deck to hide all the other kids who aren't doing well because they aren't learning at school and don't have the outside help to learn outside of school. They're stuck with whatever terrible, failed, program that FCPS is doling out to them. OUr school board and staff know EXACTLY what would work and how to help those children learn, but their ideology prevents it. So they must continue to hide the results.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fox Mill Estates Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:07PM

Can I have my son go to Oakton even if he drives a car "if" Fox Mill is redistricted to South Lakes. Does anyone know? Thank you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:09PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> navy area parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since my kids are years away from high school,
> I
> > don't have a preference for where my
> neighborhood
> > ends up (given the options in the study) --
> Oakton
> > and Chantilly are both great schools, and
> actually
> > I think being in the Oakton district might
> improve
> > the value of our home a bit. But I am not one
> for
> > throwing others under the bus so I can get what
> I
> > want. I think what's being done to Fox Mill
> and
> > Floris is horibly unfair, and the whole process
> > has been nauseating to witness. To me it seems
> > that the school board cares little to nothing
> > about providing a quality education and cares
> very
> > much about preserving their precious reputation
> as
> > a high performing, progressive school district
> > (which, as we can see, is an illusion -- this
> > whole thing is a shell game designed to cover
> up
> > the fact that only the middle and upper income
> > kids are actually performing well in Ffx.
> > Schools).
>
> You've nailed it! Kids with parents who help out
> with homework, pay for tutors and academic
> academic, with frequent trips to the library, will
> continue to do well while FCPS scuffles the deck
> to hide all the other kids who aren't doing well
> because they aren't learning at school and don't
> have the outside help to learn outside of school.
> They're stuck with whatever terrible, failed,
> program that FCPS is doling out to them. OUr
> school board and staff know EXACTLY what would
> work and how to help those children learn, but
> their ideology prevents it. So they must continue
> to hide the results.


It's after 10 pm. Neen is back for the night. Let's return to whatever Bowl game is on, since we've heard her song before.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:09PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Students at South Lakes High made the most
> impressive SAT gains, raising their school’s
> average Critical Reading score by 15 points, their
> school’s average Mathematics score by 12 points,
> and their school’s average Writing score by 19
> points......
>
> FCPS, August 28, 2007

Padre -

The above sounds really impressive until you look at the overall statistics over the last several years -

_________________________Takers_____Read/Math__Read/Math/Write___Read/Math___All
__________________________#_______#_______%ov50____#_______%ov50____#________#
Total Population 6/7_____241_____150_____62.2_____150____62.2____1092_____1625
Total Population 5/6_____255_____151_____59.2______________________1066
Total Population 4/5_____222_____139_____62.6______________________1076

Turns out the "spectacular" average increase is relative to the previous 1 year which was actually down 10 from the prior year. In addition, looking at 2 years back, last year's % at the school scoring over the national average (%ov50 above) is actually slightly lower.

In other words, it looks like what appears to be a spectacular increase is probably noise.

On the otherhand, perhaps the difference isn't noise, perhaps it's in the following -

6/7_____16
5/6_____22
4/5_____22

Guess what those numbers are - The Outliers. Any guess as to which Outliers? Students with Disabilities. I'm not going to make any guesses as to why fewer of those kids happened to take the test in 6/7, but it'd obviously skew the averages higher without making much difference in the median.

Note, not this year, but next year, the change won't be noise since the inputs will be different. Everyone will get a slug of Outliers at the top since that's the seniors 4 years after FCPS changed the entrance criteria at TJ & lowered the emphasis on the entrance test. Expect a very loud trumpeting of higher SAT scores & more National Merits at all FCPS HSes and a wailing from TJ... Maybe all the non-TJ principals will get a bonus that year...

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:16PM

Glarson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Other communities didn't know that SL PTSA members
> were sneaking handshakes and swapping talking
> points with their buddy, Stu. Other communities
> voiced their concerns in the "public forums" that
> were the appropriate place for SB members to seek
> feedback on the study and the proposed
> alternatives. Other communities did figure out
> what changes they wanted. Are you DEAF??? NO
> CHANGES. Yes, other communities feel stupid now
> that they followed the publicized process,
> especially after seeing that they have been
> completely ignored by the SB. Other communities
> are sure Stu and the SL PTSA members snickered on
> their way out the back doors of Chantilly's,
> Westfield's and Oakton's gymnasiums. Stu sure
> will have his snickering well practiced for his
> final way out the SB's back door. Other
> communities hope the SL PTSA will be there to
> snicker with him.<<<

Are you saying that it was unfair that Stu and SL PTSA decided what would happen and everyone else was wasting their time when they attended the fake community meetings, wrote letters, and will testify before the school board? Are you saying that Stu and SL PTSA were snickering at the thousands of fools who came to the meetings in good faith, only to be completely ignored? Are you saying it is not quite fair that Stu shared his cell phone number only with the SL PTSA officers, and no other PTA or PTSA had that hotline to help them throughout this process? Are you saying that all of his has helped to fuel the fires of anger against the redistricting and South Lakes? Are you saying that the process was a sham from the beginning?

Yup. Too bad they just didn't tell the truth from the beginning and save everyone a lot of time and effort.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:18PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > navy area parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Since my kids are years away from high
> school,
> > I
> > > don't have a preference for where my
> > neighborhood
> > > ends up (given the options in the study) --
> > Oakton
> > > and Chantilly are both great schools, and
> > actually
> > > I think being in the Oakton district might
> > improve
> > > the value of our home a bit. But I am not
> one
> > for
> > > throwing others under the bus so I can get
> what
> > I
> > > want. I think what's being done to Fox Mill
> > and
> > > Floris is horibly unfair, and the whole
> process
> > > has been nauseating to witness. To me it
> seems
> > > that the school board cares little to nothing
> > > about providing a quality education and cares
> > very
> > > much about preserving their precious
> reputation
> > as
> > > a high performing, progressive school
> district
> > > (which, as we can see, is an illusion -- this
> > > whole thing is a shell game designed to cover
> > up
> > > the fact that only the middle and upper
> income
> > > kids are actually performing well in Ffx.
> > > Schools).
> >
> > You've nailed it! Kids with parents who help
> out
> > with homework, pay for tutors and academic
> > academic, with frequent trips to the library,
> will
> > continue to do well while FCPS scuffles the
> deck
> > to hide all the other kids who aren't doing
> well
> > because they aren't learning at school and
> don't
> > have the outside help to learn outside of
> school.
> > They're stuck with whatever terrible, failed,
> > program that FCPS is doling out to them. OUr
> > school board and staff know EXACTLY what would
> > work and how to help those children learn, but
> > their ideology prevents it. So they must
> continue
> > to hide the results.
>
>
> It's after 10 pm. Neen is back for the night.
> Let's return to whatever Bowl game is on, since
> we've heard her song before.

I thought you had quit reading my messages. That's what you keep claiming. Your credibility is on a par with our School Board's.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Cheating Husband ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:19PM

No he cannot.

I'm sorry ma'am but your son will have to goto South Lakes High (AKA South Side High*). I've heard that all the rich kids' parents are buying them bullet proof vests. Now its gonna turn into this big thing, a race thing, like oh only the white kids can afford body armor. I can just see it turning into a huge mess.




*Marijuana reference

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:21PM

Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can I have my son go to Oakton even if he drives a
> car "if" Fox Mill is redistricted to South Lakes.
> Does anyone know? Thank you.

Yes. You can apply for a pupil placement because you want him a AP program or because he wants to take a course offered at Oakton that is not offered at South Lakes. If Oakton has empty seats, they almost have to approve the placement.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:27PM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> truthbetold Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Berdhuis: Are you McNair or Floris?
>
> I am McNair, and so fit the criteria to answer
> your question.
>
> > McNair isn't affected by the latest scenario.
>
> That doesn't mean the SB will keep it this way.

Any thoughts on why they would change it now?

Any idea when will the staff post the final scenario that goes to the SB next week?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:27PM

Actually, the all-powerful SL PTSA is in cahoots with the school board to lower the capacity at each school so that pupil placements can't happen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fox Mill Estates Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:37PM

Thank you for the reply about pupil placement. My son is in tenth grade now and is taking AP History this year so I suppose that will work. So I guess I have to go to the guidance department at Oakton and start the process --if there is enough room.

I have nothing against the IB program by the way. I did some study on this program when we were considering moving to my wife's country of origin. However, my son hasn't taken any IB courses in high school so I don't know what would happen to him, or any other child, if they were moved during high school to an IB program.

Anyway, thanks.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:37PM

Madison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is mainly to address two points that Navy
> Area Parent raised:
> 1. I’m a junior, so I’m looking at colleges and I
> haven’t found AP to be any sort of “gold
> standard”. Most of the time the credits available
> for AP and IB tests are the same. Also, for
> certain majors, it is required to take the classes
> at the university whether you took AP or IB.
> 2. Also, as a student at SL, I haven’t felt that
> there is any “bad blood” between the SL students
> and the students at other schools. The only
> animosity I’ve noticed has been directed towards
> the parents at other schools who continue to
> insult SL.

Madison, are you pupil placed at South Lakes? Do you know other students who also chose to go to South Lakes rather than their base school? Were most of them in the GT center at Hughes and wanted to stay with their friends so they wanted to go to South Lakes, rather than their base school? Are most of them girls?

I ask because it seems like girls form their bonds of friendship in middle school and want to remain with their friends. It also seems like parents are more likely to allow girls to choose their high school for social reasons and less likely to permit their sons to do that. More girls turn down GT centers than boys, and more girls turned down TJ than boys do. Social group is the most compelling reason that girls do that, and the reason that more parents permit girls to do it.

The only animosity I have noticed is coming from the parents at South Lakes who refuse any discussion of a compromise on their IB program, or anything else. They've made it clear that they run South Lakes and will not welcome the views of anyone who may be forced into their school. Not very welcoming.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:42PM

WestfieldDad:

Let's look at another school in the study. What happened at Oakton last year? Did the scores drop significantly because Oakton is failing to educate it's students? What was it doing in the years prior that it is not doing now. Would you label Oakton as a school on a downward slide? If not, then would it be fair to not give credit to improving scores at SL?

Critical Reading Math Writing

School 2005 2006 2007 2005 2006 2007 2006 2007
OAKTON 579 568 558 588 578 572 557 550

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Fox Mill Estates Parent ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:48PM

SL Verity I am sorry to read what you have written. If this is true, then it reads as if the childern from neighboring school districts will be exploited by adults working in the SL PTA and School Board to achieve a particular agenda. Could you point me to a source? Thanks

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:48PM

>>> hope that the SB will be forthcoming with truthful information as to why and how the criteria was set for the study.<<<

I can't imagine why they would do that now. They would say that it is has been answered, over and over. The problem is, the public simply does not believe that they've been truthful. Do you think that could change? Do you think there is something the SB could say that would make the public feel that the SB was finally be truthful?

I totally agree that waiting a year and beginning the study all over would go a long way to make the public feel that they had been heard and perhaps might even have a small impact in the ultimate outcome. I agree too that there is NO reason to not wait a year. The problem of under enrollment isn't a new one and didn't come about in one year, so why must the solution be found in a few months?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:52PM

Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for the reply about pupil placement. My
> son is in tenth grade now and is taking AP History
> this year so I suppose that will work. So I guess
> I have to go to the guidance department at Oakton
> and start the process --if there is enough room.
>
> I have nothing against the IB program by the way.
> I did some study on this program when we were
> considering moving to my wife's country of origin.
> However, my son hasn't taken any IB courses in
> high school so I don't know what would happen to
> him, or any other child, if they were moved during
> high school to an IB program.
>
> Anyway, thanks.

If your son is already in Oakton, as a 10th grader, he won't have to change schools, no matter what happens to your neighborhood. He will be able to remain at Oakton until he graduates.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 02, 2008 10:53PM

Fox Mill Estates Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity I am sorry to read what you have
> written. If this is true, then it reads as if the
> childern from neighboring school districts will be
> exploited by adults working in the SL PTA and
> School Board to achieve a particular agenda.
> Could you point me to a source? Thanks

Well, yes, that is the point of the study.

Sorry.

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